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Being sentient/functional at an old age and the fear of death within the individual (EDITED). Previously "How old is too old really?".
(EDIT: DISREGARD THE AGE FACTOR, THIS IS ABOUT BEING FUNCTIONAL AND HAVING A "LIFE" WORTH LIVING. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS) I'm not screaming, I'm just making sure that everyone gets it.
This question has been in my thoughts for quite some time now. I always wondered, at which point in a human being's life does he or she realizes that it's time to leave this plane of existence?
Say for example you reach 60, you're seasoned alright. Throughout your life, you performed very poor physical maintenance, you've been out of shape since forever and as a result you now suffer all types of diseases and physical illnesses. You're at a point where life, to you, consists of waking up and getting taken care of like a infant on daily basis. You're under many different types of medications, you can't perform any simple physical activity like walking and most of your needs must be tended to by someone else. Then suddenly, your condition gets worse and surgery is needed, or specialized help is needed in order to keep you alive.
Aside from your loved ones wanting to keep you alive, Isn't it selfish to put other people in tight financial situations just so you can almost mirror the life of a vegetable?
Apr 27 2013: Jean, There are cultures that respect and revere age and some that leave the old on the ice floe to die. Some have legislated death to babies through abortion and some like in the USA the politicians say it is their choice and devised death panels for citizens and yet exempt themselves from the process.
At 70 I pay a lot into taxes, coach football, basketball, and track, am a mantracker for the local law ecforcement, write for the local paper, am on many boards, consult, and am a pain in the politicans butt. I take one pill a day ... looks a lot like Fred Flintstone.
I worked in law enforcement for many years and can tell you taht age is not the issue here. There are people of all ages that the world would have been better off if their parents practiced birth control.
Politician are taking this question away and will make that decision for you. So live it up Jean because before long your fate will be decided for you. Open your eyes to what is happening now because it will be your future.
Apr 28 2013: Hello Bob, thank you for your input on this. Let's not talk about killing babies though, this is not what this is about. In your case, you're a functional individual and have much to live for, so this doesn't apply to you obviously. I'd like you to see this from a general perspective and not a personal one. I'm sure you know someone the same age as you who's not even half the functional human being you are. This is about that person.
Again ladies and gentlemen, this has nothing to do with the government and politics. This is about self awareness and consciousness. I guess I used the wrong words for this topic, since everyone seems to be on a different page then I am. This is more about being sentient then age I guess. Give the topic another read and let me know about your opinion on the subject, from an outside perspective. Exclude yourself from the scenarion and just see it from a human being perspective, not Robert Winner. Thank you.
Apr 28 2013: Jean, Abortion laws, death panels, political involvement in China that limits family size and in the USA that refuses treatment based on legislation are real world events that directly apply to your question.
IF you had written should we allow life support on patients that are clinically dead or will never recover to a functional state then I would have answered differently.
I have a living will, power of attorney, etc ... so as to not become a financial or mental burden on my family. However, as I said before that is no longer a option as I have been condemed to death by legislation. I find that VERY personal.
Jean you do not provide any info on yourself ... country, age, etc ... As I am facing these issues you may not be and the event may be well into your future .. depending on where you live so we are looking through different filters.
Sorry but government and politics have everything to do with your question ... even as you revise it.
If everyone is on a different page than your are I suggest turning pages to catch up.
I wish you well. Bob.
Apr 28 2013: Robert this isn't about life support, you didn't understand my initial post. Either by my very poor choice of words or the topic simply went over your head. I honestly see no purpose in you continuing to reply to this topic because we're on two totally different pages right now. We'll get a chance to exchange ideas on a different topic for sure. Peace, live long and prosper.Apr 28 2013: Jean, It would appear from the comments and from your own admission that all of us are on a different page from you. Sorry I could not sort it out. Hope you connect with someone.
Perhaps it did go over my head I am just a simple engineer working on a doctorate.
I wish you well.
Apr 28 2013: Thank you Robert, I appreciate it.Apr 28 2013: Oh, Robert! Doctorate in what field?Apr 29 2013: ? Come on, Fritzie... It's nice tp have a PhD, but what happens if you have a bigger FYI?
And, for the record, the feeling of safety and security is greatly compromised when you have to close your window because of a maniac with a bomb a couple of blocks away. True story.Apr 29 2013: Robert,
"There are cultures that respect and revere age and some that leave the old on the ice floe to die. Some have legislated death to babies through abortion and some like in the USA the politicians say it is their choice and devised death panels for citizens and yet exempt themselves from the process."
That's true, but when those cultures come together, free of prejudice and interest in personal gain, they can actually make something new. The world is moving and changing fast nowadays, faster than ever. Every person that has an internet connection gets 320 times more information than was kept in The Library of Alexandria (from Introduction to "Big Data, A revolution that will transform how we live, work and think" by V Mayer-Schonberger, K. Cukier) and this will change both the world, your life, my life and any death panels that may have come about.
"I worked in law enforcement for many years and can tell you taht age is not the issue here. There are people of all ages that the world would have been better off if their parents practiced birth control."
I agree, it's not age, it's capacity, perseverance, courage and a number of other factors, a lot of them misunderstood. I have not worked in law enforcement as you have, but I was taught the basics of both safety and security, relevant at that time, by my father before I turned 10. He was a smart, hard-working man who travelled the whole world, he sniffed the social and political change coming to Poland and predicting there might be social unrest, he felt compelled to prepare us. There was unrest, there were fights between workers and special forces, there was trouble after that as well but thanks to his lessons I never got beaten up by anybody who happened to have other musical preferences or opinions, some of my friends did though. But opinions and preferences change and change fast in the information age... And the more information we get, the better but it's also important how we get it. To be continued.
Apr 29 2013: Anna, Thanks or sharing your story and the lessons from your father. As we have both experienced and seen, not all change is good for either the individual or the society as a whole. You are, of course, correct that rapid changes are occuring everywhere. With change also come fear and resentment. In the USA we are being "forced" to make changes during a really bad time in our history. Political change and fisical recession and depression are knocking on our door. The older generations have the ability to see where we have been and where this "new direction" is taking us.
The question of how old is to old is being answered by politicians. I am currently healthy but in the event I become sick our new policy would be to deny me medical attention to prolong my life. So the question is without merit ... a political death panel has made that decision.
There are many things I like about the "new age" and some I do not like. I think our education approach must change to better utilize our resources and use 21st century technology to better prepare our youth ... the focus on only core subject I believe to be an error as there is value in the arts that should be experienced also ...
I would have loved to studied the document in the library at Alexandria .... This has been a pleasant detour from the conversation at hand. Thank you.
I wish you well. Bob.
Apr 29 2013: Hi Bob,
I understand fear and resentment well. I never discard any lesson until new experience, information or trend proves, without the slightest shadow of a doubt, that the lesson has no value or that the value is only sentimental. I also know what sentimental is and my view on "new age" is not that. "Cut your hair and get a job", they say. I say "Get a job I get, but why cut your hair?" You have different experiences than I have, I've been in media, sales, art, business, academia, tried different things and had different lessons. Some of them memorable, some of them to be filtered. What I'm trying to say here is that thanks to this new, glooming and glorious, information age, I'm from Texas, Indonesia and a number of other places at the same time thanks to a single click, accidental or not, while still scratching my head and being humble enough to say "Maybe I'm overreacting..."
My father was a misunderstood, every-day hero, it took me over 25 years to understand him, while always trying to do the best I can for all the rest. And my reward was to hear that he died almost alone, in pain, in a dirty bed because the type of cancer he got was so unknown that there's no chance in hell to survive. He was tough enough to get it and survive 13 days longer than statistics diagnosed. Here come the statistics, the big data, and what is really interesting. He didn't reach your age, he had no chance, but he should have deserved one. Not to mention my mother, an every-day hero of a differeent kind.
Call all this a rant, call it a speech, call it whatever you want. Frankly, my dear.... and so on.
All you need is true love, ask me what true and what love is, if you dare. Ask me what I mean by you, age, statistics or cancer. What I mean by "whatever" or "perseverence".
This is not against you, you get that, don't you.
If that was too much and if that was too strong... Please listen to one of my favourite songs - Alice In Chains - "Rooster".
Be well, Bob. I like you name :) EtcApr 29 2013: "I worked in law enforcement for many years and can tell you taht age is not the issue here. There are people of all ages that the world would have been better off if their parents practiced birth control."
...ok, but those people of all ages have been born, everyone knows what may happen if they get a job in Guantanamo Bay or law enforcement of any sort. My father's job was to have control over such people, up to 200 men at sea in foreign countries. I've heard many stories about it, of him standing for hours trying to make sure that a drunk captain doesn't fall into an open cargo hold, stories about how people go nuts at sea and what to do. He would probably think - "when on duty - behave, your suspects are not your subjects nor are the people in a foreign country. And if you don't t, it's probably not only the captain that got drunk... And if so - drunk with what?" But he would put it differently.
He was not popular because he had a tendency to say the truth into people's face, and that's not completely irrelevant...
"If everyone is on a different page than your are I suggest turning pages to catch up.
I wish you well. Bob."
Bob, in an information age you don't have to turn the page, you click yourself into the world that you didn't know anything about before. Not everything you find is good, but it may be interesting. Some people make content like music, some make parodies of this music. Some people make parodies of parodies. Some make parodies of news, other people, their age, background or whatever it may be. There are conflicts of interest between some of those people but some conflicts are just more conflicted than others and as we have more and more information about all of that, we can change the world for the better.
SUM - I just think that ethical considerations should go hand in hand with security or safety of any sort and the smarter the world gets the more plausible this combination becomes.
Best wishes to everyone involved in this discussion.
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Apr 28 2013: I guess you are right, everyone seems to be pointing the same thing, it really has nothing to do with age. I'm a very open minded people person Chris. There is purpose in helping others indeed; what good is man/woman's life if he is not willing to put his own goals aside to help another one in need. There is a lot of purpose in living, and I understand that too. But how can one claim to be "alive" if your day consists of waking up, being fed soup and sitting on a chair all day falling asleep and wake up just in time to eat? Do you get where I'm coming from?
Is there purpose in being a vegetable and being more of a financial burden to one's children as we grow older?
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Apr 28 2013: Ok, now I see why this is all tangled up. I personally believe that the mind lives past death. A weak physical body has no use in the physical world in my opinion. The children will always want to pay and care for your well being, they're your children, and if you raised them right, they will care for you when you reach that point.
The thing is, I want my children to go past whatever I may accomplish in my lifetime. Me being alive and costing them time, mental work, and money is selfish because I had my time. I want them to focus their time, money, and mental on their lives so that they too can achieve great heights in this existence, and even go past where I left.
This life really isn't about the individual, we're all one. My children should aim to be far greater than I ever was during my lifetime. I would appreciate them caring for me, but ultimately I'd much rather them focusing their resources on themselves, so that they in turn excel in life. And that to me, is the ultimate selfless sacrifice that I hope to achieve at the closing of MY life, and the greatest gift that one can ever pass on to their children.
Off course, all that assuming that my possible wife isn't still with me or we share mutual belifs, then it's a totally different approach.
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Apr 30 2013: Indeed.Apr 28 2013: 4 a.m. Then they came for me, I hid in the toilet stall They broke down the toilet door It fell in on an innocent boy Ach the wooden door fell in on an innocent kid! I stood on the bowl & listened, I hid my shadow, they shackled the other and dragged him away in my place-How long can I get away with this? Pretty soon they'll discover I'm not there They'll come for me again, where can I hide my body? Am I myself or some one else or nobody at all? Then what's this heavy flesh this weak heart leaky kidney? Who's been doing time for 65 years in this corpse? Who else went into ecstasy besides me? Now it's all over soon, what good was all that come? Will it come true? Will it really come true?
After Lalon, Allen Ginsburg, March 31, 1992
Apr 28 2013: Hey, I'm very happy that you can take your time and post a few lines from a document instead of expressing YOUR opinion. Good job.
Apr 28 2013: Believe me that's my opinion. It's just that someone said that succinctly 21 years ago. Cheers!!
Apr 28 2013: The last nine sentences of that text were questions. I'm not afraid to say that it sort of went over my head. Could you give a more concrete answer, and maybe an explanation to why you would make such a choice?
Not sure what is supposed to come true, but all I'm getting is that your thoughts on this are that you wouldn't favor a life that's just a fragment of what you used to be and you would welcome death. If I'm wrong correct me. Thanks.Apr 28 2013: It says "Being sentient at old age...." Isn't sentience the ability to feel, perceive, or be conscious, or to experience subjectivity?
I am 51 years old. I won't say " I ache in the places where I used to play". No not yet. But one day I will. But I don't think I will be a fragment of what I used to be, ever. Health will go, surely as youth left me already. But I think till the last minute I shall be asking if I lived it to the best of my ability and if that life will come true.
I think I am more than my body. I may ask my family not to drag my living corpse on just because technology can and my family can possibly afford. But to say that I shall welcome death will be a lie.
Are you looking for a justification to die Jean?
Apr 28 2013: I said sentient, then I put the slash and wrote (functional at an old age). Isn't my grammar on point?
There is no purpose to a man's life if he's not willing to die at any time, or put his life on the line for another living creature. Mankind' biggest fear is death, why you may ask? We fear the unknown, and death happens to be the last step in this plane of existence. It comes to those who fear it, and fear is the root of all evil. I plan on achieving great things in my life, whether I accomplish them or not, I know that I'm going to die someday. I'm conscious enough to realize that it's just the way things are and I have to die for sure, there is no escape. So why not remove the fear of death from my mind and replace it with something more productive that will benefit my well being while I'm alive?Apr 27 2013: Jean,
Being in a compromised state physically or emotionally is not always connected to age......I've been there.....done that.....even though I have been generally healthy and taken good care of the body and mind throughout the life adventure. I have been kept alive on life support systems, so, your question about age, does not seem consistant with the rest of your introduction.....in my perception.
I remember when I was a teen, thinking that age 30 was too old....over the hill! When I reached 30, I thought that 40-50 were REALLY old. The truth is, that in my 40s I was in the best emotional and physical condition I had EVER been.
To make a long story short, I'm ready to go, or ready to stay! I no longer perceive any age as "too old", and 70 is looking pretty good and YOUNG right now...LOL:>)
Apr 28 2013: Just by looking at your photo Colleen I can tell that you want to live and that you filled with energy. This doesn't apply to you. I guess somewhere in my introduction I might have used the wrong words to formulate my question. I gave a very specific life scenario that most American elderly people are going through right now as we speak. America is not the number one country when it comes to the health of its citizens, particularly the elderly, and that's a well known fact.
Give it another read, and spill your thoughts on the subject, thanks.
edward long
Apr 28 2013: One read should be enough. Perhaps you should give it another write and say precisely what you intend.
- +1
Apr 28 2013: Edward, just read the third paragraph and put yourself in that person's shoes. What would you do? that is literally all I'm asking. If you can't do that or my choice of words was that poor than by all means stop replying, and let's just let this topic on its own, or until I can a reply from someone who can understand what I'm trying to say.
I'm not insulting you in any way by the way. I don't really see any other way to word my topic; these are the most likely the best words I can use to describe what was on my mind. Maybe you are right, and my text makes no sense. The only way for us to know for sure is to let the topic grow, and let more people post.Apr 28 2013: Very perceptive Jean....yes....if I am in this earth school, I am going to live life to the fullest....with gusto:>)
I do not agree that "most american elderly people are going through" the scenario you describe. Perhaps I'm hanging out with a different crowd than you are aware of?
While we Americans DO indeed have a weight/diet issue, and some folks are overmedicated (in my perception), many of us make good decisions regarding our health. My buddies and I are considered "older", and we all garden, bike, ski, kayak, hike, etc. etc. etc. Many of us have physical challenges, which are mostly caused because we have lived very active lives.
I agree with you that the scenario you present does not apply to me, and I don't think it applies to as many people as you assume. I gave your introduction another read, and I'm not sure what you are trying to address. Your profile does not indicate where you are from. I'm wondering if you are comparing americans to another specific group or culture?
Apr 28 2013: "I agree with you that the scenario you present does not apply to me, and I don't think it applies to as many people as you assume". Maybe you're not aware of what goes on really. I'm not making any comparisons at all, I happen to live in America.
The scenario doesn't apply to you and that's great. Like I said to everybody else, if you're still kicking life hard, then live, live, and live. Colleen, I'm asking you to actually put yourself in that scenario. Say you weren't as healthy as you are and your days consisted of sitting at home, taking meds, eating your soup, and an oxygen tube is up your nose. Is that a life you would accept for yourself, looking back at all the great things that possibly happened in your life. To be reduced to such a small scale of existence on this planet, costing money to your children, and having them constantly worry about if you're going to wake up tomorrow. Isn't that selfish? What would you do?Apr 28 2013: Jean,
I think/feel that I am pretty aware, because throughout the life experience, I have been very active with several different, large populations, including volunteering in a terminal care facility, where most people are in the state you describe.
I DO live Jean.....thanks for the encouragement and advice:>)
As a matter of fact, I'm going to visit my brother this afternoon who is 85, on oxygen all the time because of COPD (lung disease) and is very limited regarding mobility. I spent a LOT of time caring for another brother who died in January from cancer. He also was limited, and in a similar state that you describe.
One of the great things that happened to me, was a near fatal head/brain injury years ago, and at that time, I was in the condition you describe. I did not have the feeling then that I was in a "small scale of existence", nor do I see my brothers and others in that condition as being "a small scale of existence".
It really feels like you are being judgemental regarding the decisions other people make about their reason for living or dieing? Would you like to simply "put down" all those who do not meet your criteria for life? "How old is too old really".......FOR WHAT? Be clear!
Apr 28 2013: I actually edited the topic, and mentioned to disregard the age factor. The age factor (60 to be specific) is only there as a cap, because a 30 year old with lung failure is not the same as a 60 year old with lung failure. At 30, there is still a lot one can accomplish with their lives. As we grow older our capacities for greatness become more and more limited.
Because of the seriousness of the nature of your past injury, I'm not going to ask you to be more specific about it because I understand that it might a memory that you do not wish to revisit, let alone share with a 21 year old arrogant young man haha.
I'm not imposing my ideas on anyone though, where do you get this from? I hope I don't cross a line here Colleen really, but I'm sure that your brother is not having the time of his life with the respiratory issues and his limited ability to move. Maybe I am being judgmental without really seeing it.
My opinion (keep in mind that this is my opinion and I'm not forcing it on anyone nor really judging anyone who believes in a different idea) on this is that, I do not want to be breathing with the help of a machine, I'd let nature take its course and sync with the universe. My lungs would collapse because of physical failure and I understand that. I'm not a machine and there's no point to go against nature. I like breathing with my lungs. I'd become more of burden/worry to my family more than a source of joy and life. To pass away by your own will without fear of death is far more encouraging to the younger generation and less costly mentally/financially.
My view on life and death seems to be extreme from your perspective probably, but I'd align myself with the natural course of things any day over life support. It probably is partly due to my personal beliefs and my spirituality.
I feel great just by looking at your photo Collen, a lot of energy and life. I can tell you have a lot of Charisma an people like you a lot. Continue being great!Apr 28 2013: Jean,
I noticed that you edited the topic, and I also read your post in which you state that your age is 21.....that explains a LOT my friend. At 21, I might have felt the same way you do....probably would NOT have wanted to be kept alive with life support systems. Thankfully, with age and life experiences, we sometimes assimilate more information!
At age 42, I was a competitive athlete, performer (actor, singer, dancer in musical theater), honored by an international organization as a "woman of the 90s", in the best physical and emotional shape EVER...bla...bla.....bla.
One day I went horseback riding, and regained consciousness 2 week later after an emergency craniotomy, actually dying, and kept alive with life support systems. I was not supposed to live. When I did live, the prognosis was that I would never function "normally" again. There was a quesion about unplugging me from life support, and my family decided not to, so here I am, living a full and very active life. I do not mind revisiting, it because it is a GREAT lesson, which I choose to remember:>)
Jean, you are NOT sure about anything regarding my brother, and yes, that is arrogant to believe you are. He is choosing to live, rather than die right now, I respect his choice, and will do all I can to help facilitate his choice. He is not afraid of death....we talk about it a lot. He simply chooses to live right now.
I respect the choice you make for yourself at this time as well, and I suggest that you may change your mind at some point in the future. Your view is not at all "extreme", and I respect your view. You are saying on this thread that nobody understands what you are talking about....nobody understands the topic. I suggest that most of us understand, and may have a different perspective.
You might even want to rethink your statement....
"As we grow older our capacities for greatness become more and more limited."
Maybe....just maybe....the possibility for greatness becomes more great:>)
Apr 28 2013: See Collen, now we're talking. Even though this is revolving about your personal life and your brother, I'm able to get what I wanted, a different perspective. Everybody else want to talk about the government and the law, when I'm only asking for personal perspectives.
Thank you for your time!Apr 28 2013: Jean, I'm curious.....
Why do you want to set your present worldview/mindset in stone at the young age of 21?
Apr 28 2013: I don't Colleen. Because If that was the case, I wouldn't have came to Ted to discuss something I have no intention of changing my mind on. I hope everyone else got something out of this topic, because I came here to acquire knowledge, not to throw ideas around for the sake of it.Apr 28 2013: RE: "Edward, just read the third paragraph. . . " You now have an edited post offered for debate which really asks no question. What EXACTLY is it you are seeking arguments in support of, or in opposition to? Are you proposing that hopelessly non-productive and apparently non-aware people should be killed?
Apr 28 2013: Edward my whole post is just nonsense as you mentioned above, let's just leave it at that.
Salman Asad
Apr 29 2013: We have a saying in Punjab, Pakistan, that as long as the heart is young (in the emotional and spiritual sense), a person even at 90 is not old, even though few signs of aging maybe visible. I now people who are 80 plus and are more active in their daily lives than I ever was. :-)
- +1
But surely if being born was not in my hands so why should dying be in my hands. Life and death is about balance.
Every peak has to reach a low point. That is the law of nature. I see the sine curve and i see the human life. Your question should be that why do we get sick in the prime of ours lives and have to die?Apr 29 2013: Dear Jean,
I read your post and the conversation carefully. It appears that you asked a question (open ended) and then preferred to edit it to change the question, which you insist, has no connection with your original question. You didn't help the commenters by sharing specific information about your age, country of residence, social/family situations so I have reasons to believe you wished to keep your question academic and non-personal. In course of discussion, you informed you live in America and you are 21 years old. Apparently you have no physical condition that may make your life as unbearable.
I see many commenters trying to place their perspective, describe and relive their pains and suffering just to help you. And I also see that you are discarding many replies just because that is not something you are looking for. It appears to me you have the answer to your own question - all you are doing is seeking confirmation to it.
If I have understood this platform and most people here, it doesn't work here that way.
Apr 30 2013: This question was meant to be purely abstract, not really applied to a real world situation, which is why I layed a hypothetical scenario. I'm getting answers, but not to the question I formulated. I think I have to post it on physics or a psychology forum to get the answers I'm looking for, because those two subjects are were my question originated from really. I'm closing this one.
specs 2
Apr 29 2013: I think as they grow older It depends on how the individual sees themselves in regard to the world.
- +1
If they think it's there for them to enjoy then they tend to fight to the end at all costs.
If they think it's there for them to help or contribute to then they're usually ready to go as nature sees fit. No special efforts required to stay alive. They may have regrets about not doing enough but accept that they did what they could.
Apr 30 2013: That's true, it depends on the person. But what is YOUR perspective?
specs 2
Apr 30 2013: I believe that a person needs to contribute whatever happiness and understanding they can to the world and those around them for as long as they can. That's what I think life is for. If they can still contribute constructively for that purpose from a wheelchair or a bed then fine - keep at er. But do it for others, not for yourself. And if the grim reaper shows up one day then so be it. Make it quick. There is no point in staving off the inevitable while sucking the life out of everybody around you. I don't want people lingering in the pain or sadness of my passing. I want them to rise above it, be happy and celebrate that our lives crossed and take away whatever lessons or pleasures they can to carry the torch for the next generation.
- 0
If it gets to the point where I'm just prolonging the inevitable for no gain to anybody then give me the plug. I'll end it myself. There's not much to fear really. If there's another realm to exist in then great lets go. There's nothing more I can do here for anybody. If there isn't - It won't really matter then will it so what is there to fear?
On a side note - how come everybody sees a white light when they get close to the end but come back. How come nobody ever sees a red glow or comments on the heat or the smell. Surely some of those folks had some reckoning coming? Just curious. No response required
Paul Lillebo
Apr 29 2013: I see you're having a hard time getting a clear answer to what you asked. You're probably wondering why that is. My take on this must start with my own answer to your question:
- +1
"I don't know." There's a clear answer. And I think it also suggests the reason why you're not getting clear answers.
I'm not in the situation of your infirm 60-year old. (I'm only 72 and in great health, as long as we're sharing ages.) And because I'm not in his situation I can't know what I would do if I were in that situation. When I was 21, I would have known what do do if I were a 60-year old near-vegetable. But not anymore. When you have lived a goodly number of decades and are at all reflective, you recognize the impossibility of determining well ahead of time what your sense of your present, past, and future will be at a later age. You only know that it will have changed.
I appreciate your recognition below (if you weren't being ironic) that experience with life does bring some understanding with the years. Many 20-somethings seem to lack that recognition, though they all think they're smarter than they were five years ago.
Hope the discussion has given you something to chew on.
Paul L.
Apr 30 2013: I know you're not in the situation of my infirm 60 year old... But say you were is what I'm asking. What would the individual inside YOU do? Would he make a conscious decision or?Apr 29 2013: Suggest every situation, case by case.
If you have your facalties, and wish to end your suffering, that should be your choice. One consideration in these situations is whether you have dependents, especially if it is emotional suffering.
My rule of thumb is not to kill myself on the spur of the moment. Wait for a day.
In cases where people have lost their ability to think or communicate, it is much harder.
Suggest we should discuss what our preference is in these situations with our families before they happen.
I think there is some living wills too that outline your wishes if in a coma etc.
Sometimes life presents no easy options.
Apr 30 2013: I don't need to suggest every situation case by case because I'm only looking for perspectives on only one situation. It's not that you'd want to die because you're heavily ill, it's that you're accepting death so that other people in your family can continue their lives in peace. Life continues after you die. You save them energy that they can apply to something else in their lives, money that they can invest in something else that matters to them, and spending time doing something that matters to them. The ultimate selfless act of existence, to accept death so that others can enjoy life. That's what made Jesus Christ the only one to ever truly been able to become one and communicate freely with the creator, it's because he was willing to die for the ultimate good of others. It's that sacrifice.
When does consciousness grasps the true concept of selflessness?
Comment deleted
Apr 28 2013: I appreciate your input on this Don. If you haven't done so, I would suggest you take a little time and read some of my replies below to get a better picture of what I'm trying to discuss here. Your photo shows that you maintain a great posture so I'm going to go ahead assume that you too are still kicking life really hard, and to that, I say live on brother.
I'm not too sure where the medical department falls into the scenario and question that I asked. All I'm asking is to put yourself in the shoes of the person in my third paragraph and give me an opinion. There isn't much data to be analyzed or processed. This is not a proposal for the elderly to be put down, this is merely an attempt at having a very hypothetical exchange of ideas, and not world facts. I'm 21, to answer your question.
Here's my answer to my question: If I can no longer do the things I loved to do during my life, and my children are grown, focused and on track with their lives. There is no need for me to stay alive. We strive for survival, not personal survival, but the survival of our race. Whether I accomplish my dreams or not, I don't want to turn into a fragment of who I really am. I would let my family know that I was satisfied and grateful of my life and that I'm proud to have fathered my children, and watch them grow to become whatever they become and that whatever serious medical condition that may arise, there is no need for them to invest their mind/money/time into it, because I want to pass away, at peace with myself and the world. I'd request they respect my decision, for it is my life. The fear of death cannot be in my mind. I have accomplished the prime goal of every human which is to make sure that our race lives on and prospers. I don't know what it's like to be seasoned yet, obviously, but I feel that it can't be as lively as it is for me now at 21.
What would you do in the shoes of the person of my third paragraph? would you be selfish and have your family worry so much?
Comment deleted
Apr 28 2013: Don, I read the text on your page, and I can also agree that Herb Foxwell is a swell gentlemen. Long live Herb Foxwell, and may he prosper in life. To be completely honest, again, what I just read from you has nothing to do with what I'm asking.
It seems as though an unstoppable force has met an immovable object. I can't wait to get into a topic where we're both on the same page, and have a healthy exchange of ideas. I'm really having a hard time understanding how most of what you're typing applies to my topic, but like you said it's probably because you're older and much smarter than me. Your reasoning is going way above my head because I'm failing to decipher what your opinion is on being hypothetically incapacitated in the scenario written above. This topic doesn't seem to be working for both of us, as you're failing to provide me with a simple concrete opinion, and I'm failing to understand why I can't get the type of answers I'm aiming for.
Peace, keep living and prosper.
bart hsi
Apr 27 2013: My answer to this question is quite straightforward. I don't believe that a man's life is sacred, but also I don't believe that the government has any power to determine the life of a citizen regardless of how meaningful or meaningless his life will be. If the family members of the "old" (actually the term old is different for different people, also some one could fall into a coma/vegetable-state in their 20s) are willing to suffer the financial consequences, then the government should not interfere with their wishes.
- +1
I, personally, have already put in my living will, that the attending physician, with the consent of my family/guardian, can disconnect the respirator which could only keep my breathing but with no hope of restoring my consciousness. However, I will not vote for any government interference whatsoever on this decision. This policy seems to be derived from the religious doctrine, therefore, according to our Constitution, the government should be kept out of the private decision-making.
Even though we are in such a heavily loaded welfare state, it is still quite impossible to cover all the family financial hardship such as the bread-winner in the family couldn't find a job, not because he is incapable to work, but he also spends much of the welfare money for his dope habit or drinking, over the needs of his family.
For the same reason, I don't believe that the government should interfere with suicide either.
Apr 28 2013: The government has nothing to do with topic at all. Please point me to where the government was mentioned in my initial post and I'll gladly remove it. I didn't go as far as a coma, because people can come back from that state and still be functional. This is about the seasoned men and women who can't properly function, and are costing a lot of money to their families because of their fear of death.
Apr 28 2013: I answered your question about the meaning of "useful life" according to MY VALUE SYSTEM ON MY LIFE in my posting. I raised the question of the government interference on the decision to terminate or even refuse to pay for health insurance on some treatment which really could prolong a patient's life, but needs very expensive or extremely labor-intensive care. So what I meant was; should we leave the decision to the family members who are most likely to spend majority of their money and time on the patient, instead of extending the political or legal arms of the government TO STOP THE TREATMENT OR THE PROCEDURE OF PROLONGING A LIFE FOR WHATEVER THE REASON SUCH AS YOUR SUGGESTION OR IN THE NAME OF EFFICIENCY FOR THE .GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. Currently, at least in the U. S., the government is trying to take care of the health insurance of every citizen in the country, so this question is quite relevant here.
Let me say again that personally I am a nonbeliever in the notion that human life is sacred. As a matter of fact, with limited resources on earth, I think that if we spend effort and resources on a seriously incapacitated old guy, it might cost another life in other part of the world. So personally I agree with your view. However, I don't like that this kind of decision would be made by some third party; i.e. the government bureaucracy, instead of the family members.
Apr 28 2013: Finally I get an answer!
Not because you agreed, but because you you gave me an opinion on the hypothetical situation. Your point of view is that you wouldn't go for the life support and heavy medical assistance, because you're aware that you're costing your family time, money, and mental baggage. At the same time, you'd allow your family to influence your decision and even make a choice for YOUR life.
I see, thanks for your perspective, and thank you for understanding. Is my post really as complicated as everyone else claims it to be then?Apr 28 2013: Let me tell you several legal cases which happened in the past in the U. S.:
In the 1980s, there was a physician named Kevorkian(?) who openly carried out several "assisted suicide" to patients who asked for assistance to terminate their "meaningless life" due to advanced stage cancer. Eventually the physician was convicted for man-slaughter and put in jail. Now there are no such physicians being permitted to do any assisted suicide in the U. S. So if a patient like in your case wanted to terminate his life, he has to do it sneakily behind the back of his family. Also, after 1992, there are several cases of mercy killing by the spouses of the suffering of their seriously sick spouses, and at least two of them were convicted and sentenced to jail.
Another case happened in around 1987, a woman of 21 years old named Quinlan was hit by a car and went into coma, and never regain conscious for at least 15 months. The immediate family guardian and the hospital ethics committee agreed to disconnect respirator because of the prognosis for regain of consciousness being hopeless. However some other party besides the family sued. The family had to go through 4 years of litigation, and finally got the court approval to the legally permitted disconnection after much suffering by the family. May I call your attention that all 3 situations are against the opinion of you and me. But the important point here is that things are not as simple as you may realize.Apr 29 2013: Let me add another point to you answer in this round.
The current law about the legal consent to terminate a "life" whatever the condition is, must depend on the consent of ALL THREE PARTIES; the medical staff more than the attending physician alone, the patient himself, and his guardian family member. LACK OF ANY ONE OF THE THREE, the hospital would not authorize the "termination" If the patient is unconscious and didn't have a prearranged consent, then certain other parties or the government could step in and challenge the decision to terminate.
So, in my case, I can only prevent such "interference" from anybody, when my guardian agrees to my termination. And if they object to my intent, then the HOSPITAL IS NOT ALLOWED TO CARRY OUT THE TERMINATION PROCEDURE EVEN IF I HAD A CONSENT EITHER PREARRANGED OR RIGHT ON THE SPOT. So your comment at the end of your first paragraph in the second response is simply not applicable.
Your post was not too complicated, rather it's not applicable to many other countries than that of yours. Or are you sure that in your country, you can dictate what the medical staff will do whatever you desire and from nobody else?May 1 2013: Hello again Jean:>)'
You say in your previous comment..."Finally I get an answer!"
It appears that it may indeed be agreement you are seeking. What is the point in starting a "debate", if you only accept a certain perspective?
You also ask..."Is my post really as complicated as everyone else claims it to be then?"
Your intent, with your post seems a bit confused and confusing. You ask, in several comments for personal perceptions/perspectives, and you also say you want an opinion on the hypothetical situation.
For some of us, the scenario you present is not hypothetical....it is real. Some of us have either personally been in the condition you present, and/or, we see friends and family in that condition often. If you want a genuine conversation, I suggest encouraging all perspectives.
Your statement..."Finally I get an answer", suggests that you are indeed seeking a certain perspective.
pat gilbert
Apr 27 2013: That is crazy talk. It violates the prime directive of life.
- +1
Apr 28 2013: For the record Pat, what is the prime directive of life?
Apr 28 2013: to survive
Apr 28 2013: Thanks. I forgot about the two instincts with which every human is born. . to suckle and self-preservation.Apr 28 2013: How is this crazy talk? I gave a very specific scenario and asked for feedback. I understand your need to express an opinion, but if you're going to do so Pat, please say something more concrete.
If you're a healthy human being who still functions well past 60, then go ahead and live on brother. No one is telling you to die. This topic is about the men and women who never took care of their bodies when they were young and as a result they contracted all sorts of illnesses and are prescribed tons of medication, need medical care constantly. This is about those with very restricted diets, those who can no longer walk on their own due to obesity and diabetes and other illnesses.
Apr 28 2013: Sanity = survival
suicide (especially at the age of 60) = crazy
Apr 28 2013: This isn't about suicide. Suicide is for those who are lost and have no hope or no vision for life. This is about knowing when you're time is up in your own mind. It's not about killing yourself, it's about embracing death.
I layed down a hypothetical scenario in the third paragraph. What would you do, is all I'm asking? This is merely a hypothetical debate, not to be taken seriously. I'm not imposing my ideas on you, I'm actually asking you to share a piece of your mind with me. If you don't want to do that then I understand. Death is a touchy subject and most people are afraid to die. You don't have to reply if you can't find an answer to my question, it's not a crime.
Comment deleted
Apr 28 2013: Don, somewhere down the line during our conversation I must have typed something the wrong way. This isn't about your actual life. This is all hypothetical. I appreciate the fact that you're willing to share such personal information about your life with me and the others, but that is honestly not what I'm aiming for.
I'm only asking for different perspectives without having to impose our ideas on each other. I you feel like I'm imposing something on you, know that that's not my intention at all. In fact it's great that you're seasoned and replying to me because I get to learn more. You have spent more time on this earth than I did, so there are experiences that I haven't yet reached in my life. Age does not define intelligence just so you know, and I don't think I'm smarted than you. Making such a bold assumption would be stupid and closed minded because I don't know you. I"m only the question to get different views on life in general. I honestly do not want to hear anyone's life story, this is hypothetical.
This a PURELY hypothetical topic about life, it's not about YOU specifically, rather your perspective as a human being. I don't want to hear Don Wesley, I want to hear the human being inside you. Don Wesley already has a life of his own, therefore this cannot apply to Don.
This is purely abstract thinking.
Peter Law
Apr 27 2013: I guess you are well under 60.
- +1
I am 62 & fit, & , as a Christian, very happy to leave anytime God decides. This, however, is not a decision I would leave to politicians who already sanction the death of millions of babies per year.
Apr 28 2013: Peter I'm happy to hear that you're still kicking life really hard at that age. If you maintain your body and your mind, then live long and prosper, this doesn't apply to you. Let's not bring politics into this, this is about self consciousness and awareness of one's existence. The government has nothing to do with this topic, so let's please stay on track.


text:
4 simultaneous users.
SimplyMap is an Internet-based mapping application that enables users to develop interactive thematic maps and reports using thousands of demographic, business, and marketing data variables. Miami's subscription includes access to data from the EASI Standard Package (which includes data from the year 2000, 2010, Current Estimates, and Five Year Projections), the EASI Life Stages Package, the Experian SimmonsLOCAL, and the Nielsen Claritas PRIZM Data Packages.
A quick reference guide is available here and the SimplyMap Variable List is available here.
Guest curated by graduate student Katie Wills
Stories from people who were children during World War II and the objects in this exhibit animate the past and inform us of a time when war took over daily life. "Retrospect is a very interesting thing," says Ruthie Kallnder. "At the time I don't recall any of the information we got as being propaganda," but the government tried to influence children to make "necessary" sacrifices. Propagandists made the war a battle between good and evil, democracy and fascism. They also asked children to share in the war effort. In response, many children took on more responsibilities. Ruthie explains that boys and girls felt "if that's what it was going to take" to win they "were willing to do it." The memories of the people in this exhibit and their wartime actions show the power of propaganda's messages and its lasting affect on their lives. Propaganda posters, children's books, and classroom assignments demonstrate how propagandists reached children and involved them in the national war effort.
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text:
This is the Nissan 370Z Nismo
Forgotten about the 370Z? Nissan has revealed a new one, now wearing a Nismo badge...
Posted: 22 Jan 2013
Just as we were almost forgetting about the Nissan 370Z, Nissan has gone and made a new version, this time wearing a Nismo badge. It follows the launch of the Juke Nismo, the first in a new bunch of performance cars based on regular models.
Details are thin for now, but we did manage to extract a few facts from Shoichi Miyatani, the boss of Nismo - Nissan's racing department, whose engineers have been working their magic on its road and race cars since the Sixties.
The new bodykit, he says, is there for aero more than styling. It'll increase downforce, due mostly we imagine, to that whopping GT3-style rear wing. And - he claims - the chin spoiler will completely eliminate lift at the front end.
As for the suspension, and like the Juke Nismo, it'll be stiffer but not by too much. And it's a similar story for power, with the 3.7-litre V6 likely to get a decent boost to around 340bhp from its stock 323bhp.
We'll know more when it's officially shown off at the Geneva motor show in March, before going on sale in June this year. And who knows, with those motorbike-spec exhausts, it might even get close to the howling soundtrack of the 350Z, which we've missed since the 370 elbowed it out of showrooms in 2009.
Dan Read


text:
Industrial reports provide a 360 degree view of an industry. The Industrial market report offers a comprehensive guide to the size and shape of the Machinery for Textile and Apparel Production market at a national level. It provides the latest retail sales data, allowing you to identify the sectors driving growth. It identifies the leading companies, the leading brands and offers strategic analysis of key factors influencing the market - be they new product developments, packaging innovations, economic/lifestyle influences, distribution or pricing issues. Forecasts illustrate how the market is set to change.
Product coverage: Dyeing and Finishing Machinery, Industrial and Household Sewing Machines, Machinery Parts, Attachments and Accessories, Spinning, Weaving and Knitting Machinery.
Data coverage: market sizes (historic and forecasts), company shares,
Author:Mike Kinge-mailWeb: www.companiesandmarkets.comPhone: London: +44 (0) 203 086 8600


text:
FLEUR DE FER Dining table
Dining table in hot-forged wrought iron, available in colors blue-green, rust, black or steel varnish. Rectangular 15 mm glass top, available in various sizes (also available in cocktail table, console and end unit).
Dimensions: 74.8"L x 29.9"H x 49.2"D
L.190 x H.76 x D.125 cm


text:
Upright, only 5 fruit for evaluation, red around pit, splits, good taste
An advanced selection from the breeding program of Dr. Ralph Scorza, USDA-ARS Appalachian Fruit Research Station, Kearneysville, WV. Trees are of pillar/columnar growth habit type.
The description of each variety of peach or nectarine fruit under each group is in different formats as this information is collected from varied sources and hence is not consistent


text:
But for me, business-wise, this is not a good move if true. Changing a name of a growing band can spell disaster, many will wonder where TNA has gone, and more to the point it's almost as if they have to build from the ground up again.
And the obvious stab at WWE is idiotic too, because it's concentrating too much fire on them.
They should just ignore WWE and get on with making a great product, it's all I'm saying.


text:
ZANY Steven Hall is urging people to vote for him after he performs in front of millions of TV viewers on Britain's Got Talent tonight.
The 53-year-old telecommunications engineer will represent Cumbria when he takes to the stage for the live semi-final with a new dance routine.
Having taken the nation by storm with his eclectic two-minute act, which saw him perform a dance to The Birdy Song, The Macarena and The Twist, he has become an overnight success.
He has gained more than 1.5 million views on YouTube and more than a thousand fans on his official Facebook site.
So, what has he got lined up for the biggest performances of his life tonight?
"It was said: 'How am I going to follow that?' Because the element of surprise has gone," he said.
"So I have taken what everybody said they would expect me to do next and not done it."
Life has changed for the Burneside Amateur Theatrical Society member since he gained three 'yes' votes from Amanda Holden, Michael McIntyre and David Hasselhoff, and a standing ovation from the Liverpool crowd.
"It was the second best experience of my life, but I can't tell you the first one," he jokes.
"Since then, it has been so busy I haven't had time to think about it.
"I have been to London several times for interviews and rehearsals."
Having performed in theatres across the Lake District, Steven set up Comedy Showtime two years ago, a five-person act that puts on performances across the region.
From this, a 10-minute dance evolved which came to form the basis of his BGT audition.
If Steven is successful tonight, he will make it through to Saturday's live final.
If victorious in the final, he will perform in front of The Queen at The Royal Variety Performance and win £100,000.
"I am nervous and confident about tonight," he said.
"Nervous because Simon Cowell is back on the show and he is held in such anticipation about what he has thought of the acts that have gone through while he's been away.
"But I am confident of my routine. I'm looking forward to it."
A PAIR of ospreys have returned to their nesting site in the Lake District. The birds are back at Bassenthwaite Lake - 10 years after the first male osprey chose the area for a nesting site.The bird, known as No Ring, was the first to nest in the Lakes for 150 years. Experts say he has returned with the female he paired up with for the first time in 2007.
It is hoped the birds will rear an 11th generation of young after two male chicks were produced last year.
Graeme Prest of the Lake District Osprey Project said: "It is wonderful news that the ospreys have returned for another season and have already mated. With a bit of luck, the female will be laying her eggs soon."
Almost 100 people are part of a volunteer project to provide 24-hour observation on the nest. They also engage with the public about ospreys at the Dodd Wood viewpoint and Whinlatter Visitor Centre.
The public Osprey Viewpoint at Dodd Wood, near Keswick, has been opened and telescopes are being provided to see the birds.
Live images from the nest are also being beamed to a big screen at the nearby Whinlatter visitor centre. The osprey project is managed by a partnership of the Forestry Commission, Lake District National Park Authority and the RSPB.


text:
Pure wool is a robust, hard wearing yet soft 100% wool yarn.
Rowan Finest is a blend of extra fine merino, cashmere and royal alpaca wool. Soft to the touch and comfortable to wear, knitting to a 4ply tension this yarn gives great stitch definition.
Rowan Fine Tweed is a finer version of Rowan Tweed and is perfect for fairisle and colour work.
Rowan Mohair Haze is a premium versatile yarn that suits many projects. It's wonderfully soft and fluffy feel is both warm and light to wear. The colour palette is sophisticated soft pastels mixed together with highlights of jewelled brights. Mohair Haze can also be used for all Rowan patterns using Angora Haze however for every 1 ball of Angora Haze you will need approximately 1.5 balls of Mohair Haze.


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Paying for the rising costs of a college education is a
concern for nearly every student and family. Having a solid plan for
covering the cost of college is an important step toward graduation.
Wilson College is pleased to enlist the services of OPC to make the
process easier for you. Official Payments Corporation, the leading tuition
payment plan provider in the industry, is working together with Wilson
College to provide you with sensible strategies for covering the rising
costs of college.
To help you meet your educational expenses, Wilson College is proud
to offer OPC as a convenient budget plan. This is not a loan program.
You have no debt, there are no interest or finance charges assessed,
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text:
Crown Verity Charcoal BBQ
- $ 679 00 679.00
- Shipping
- Price includes shipping
- Enter ZIP Code for shipping options
- Estimated arrival
About this item
The Crown Verity BM-60 charcoal grill is the ideal unit for cooking for large groups of people. The unit has an adjustable cooking grid that adjusts to four different heights. The cooking grid locks in place so it won't slide off the grill as you are cooking. The legs of the unit are not threaded and they slide into four reinforced leg sockets on the bottom of the unit and are held in place with a locking pin. The bottom side of the unit has four welded channels to reinforce the fire box and keep it from warping. The leg sockets each have two gussets welded to them to add strength and keep the leg sockets straight and true. The unit is made of cold rolled 14 gauge steel.
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text:
According to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports, the Blue Jays have "checked on" Alfonso Soriano.
Jon Niese kept the Giants off the board over eight innings, earning his fourth win of the season on Monday.
Johnny Monell hit a two-run double in the ninth inning to help the Mets hold off the Giants on Monday.
Jon Lester brought a no-hitter into the seventh inning, but ultimately lost it and the game on Monday after giving up two unearned runs in seven innings against the Cardinals.
Kelly Johnson went 2-for-4 with an RBI single and a two-run home run to help the Braves fend off the Brewers on Monday.
Brian Dozier slugged a walk-off two-run home run in the 10th inning, helping the Twins outlast the Orioles on Monday.
Preston Tucker had the best game of his young career, going 4-for-5 with a double, a home run, two RBI, and two runs scored to lead the Astros past the Indians on Monday.
Pedro Alvarez delivered a walk-off RBI single in the bottom of the ninth inning, helping the Pirates eke out a win against the Padres on Monday.
Yunel Escobar had to exit Monday's game versus the Reds with left hamstring tightness.
Denard Span left Monday's game against the Reds with back spasms.
Eugenio Suarez hit a solo home run in the eighth inning to break a tie and ultimately send the Reds to a win over the Nationals on Monday.
Chris Sale went all nine innings and limited the Blue Jays to two runs to earn the win on Monday.


text:
Panthère de Cartier, necklace
White gold, onyx, emerald, diamonds
White gold, onyx, emerald, diamonds
A truly wild animal, the Panther is more than a mere symbol for Cartier. It is a timeless icon that is both predatory and elegant, restrained yet always ready to pounce. Roaming freely with emerald eyes, onyx muzzles and diamond-set coats, the creations from the Panther Collection make its mark on the world of jewelry.
18K white gold necklace fully pavé-set with diamonds, set with onyx spots, onyx nose and emerald eyes.
Necklace length: 65 cm. Motif height: 3 cm.
Excl. Sales Tax
The easy way to find your nearest Cartier boutique.
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Education funding levels decided by Legislature; waiting for Gov.'s signature
Funding for all levels of education was decided by the Legislature this week when HB 5314 passed the Senate. Funding levels are set for K-12, community colleges and universities. The legislation is now on its way to Gov. Snyder for his signature.
All school districts will get a base increase of $50 for each student, which is less than the $83 to $111 per pupil increase Gov. Snyder proposed in February.Lower-funded districts can get up to $125 more for each student.
Community colleges will receive a 3 percent increase while universities will get an increase of 5.9 percent.


text: The Essential Extra Long T is one of our classic wardrobe staples and highlights how investing in the right foundations can really make a difference to everyday dressing. With a scoop neck and long sleeves, this style is perfect for layering. Made in an easy care soft stretch jersey, it's been designed for extra versatility.


text:
Layne Wide Dresser Topper
Inspired by 18th-century antiques, our Layne collection exhibits a gentle restraint in style. Simple rectilinear forms blend seamlessly with elegant turned legs.
- Topper includes protective velvet on the bottom; secures with metal brackets
- Features separate compartment for keeping supplies at hand
- With addition of our topper, dresser (sold separately) doubles as a changing station
- Handcrafted of kiln-dried hardwood with fine veneers
- Finished by hand in sandwashed grey using an intense multistep finishing process that achieves the authentic texture of time
- This item is handcrafted with meticulous care. Given its hand-finished nature and natural variations in the wood grain, each item is unique and no two will be exactly alike.
- Wood swatch is 6" square; free shipping
Layne Wide Dresser Topper
- Topper Overall: 55"W x 17½"D x 3"H
- Small Interior Compartment: 19"W x 16"D x 2½"H
- Large Interior Compartment: 34"W x 16"D x 2½"H
- Topper Weight: 9 lbs.
- Wide Dresser Overall: 56"W x 18"D x 34"H
- Wide Dresser with Topper: 56"W x 18"D x 37"H
Layne Wide Dresser Topper
Changing Pad
Cuddle Plush Changing Pad Cover
Washed Organic Linen Changing Pad Cover
Wood Swatch - Sandwashed Grey


text:
Marlowe Armoire
- No Longer Available -
Plinth base and crown molding give our Marlowe armoire a distinctive feel.
- Handcrafted of American hardwood with fine birch veneers
- Lightly distressed
- Features 2 English-dovetailed, cedar-lined drawers with tip rails, dust panels and wood-on-wood glides
- 2 adjustable shelves
- Top has a removable clothing rod; back has a cord cutout for use as a media center
- Nylon glides and adjustable levelers on feet
- Solid brass hardware finished in oil-rubbed bronze
- Furniture Tip Restraint included
- Wood swatch is 6" square; free shipping
- GREENGUARD Gold Certified. Meets or exceeds stringent chemical emissions standards. Learn more.
Marlowe Armoire
- Overall: 44"W x 24"D x 72"H
- Interior without Shelves: 39½"W x 21½"D x 45½"H
- Shelf: 39"W x 20½"D x 1"H
- Drawer Interior: 35"W x 18"D x 6½"H
- Weight: 257 lbs.
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AARCO Enclosed Bulletin Board
24" H x 18" W x 2" D Size
36" H x 24" W x 2" D Size
AARCO Enclosed Bulletin Board
Weights & Dimensions
24" H x 18" W x 2" D Size
36" H x 24" W x 2" D Size
|Style: Wall Mounted
|Frame: Aluminum
|Board: Bulletin Board
|Designed For: Indoor Use; Outdoor Use
|Lockable: Yes
|Country of Manufacture: United States
|Product Warranty: Manufacturer provides 1 year warranty
About the ManufacturerSince 1975 Aarco Products Inc. has manufactured a full range of Visual Communication Products. Their products are manufactured of the best and most durable components, yet are moderately priced. Their modern and expanded facilities, coupled with their experienced manufacturing staff, enable them to produce custom products with a special measure of consistency and affordability.
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OUR SKU # AAO1345Enclosed Bulletin Board is also sometimes listed under the following manufacturer numbers: OWFC2418, OWFC2418G, OWFC2418LB, OWFC3624, OWFC3624G, OWFC3624LB


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Find hotels & motels in Cedar Hill using the list below. Search for the cheapest discounted hotel and motel rates in or near Cedar Hill, TX for your corporate or personal leisure travel. We show the best Cedar Hill Texas hotel rooms. Review the Cedar Hill hotel list below to find the perfect lodging. We also have a map of the Cedar Hill hotels. Need 5+ Rooms? Secure Cedar Hill Group Hotel DiscountsThe Cedar Hill center point is around 6 miles from BMX Racing Metroplex and 8 miles from Dallas Police H Port Redbird Heliport.
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|Park City, Utah
|High School:
|Park City
|Medical Lab Science
Daughter of RJ and Julie Melgaard Guiney ... born on 2-7-91 in Park City, Utah ... majoring in Genetics.
Named to 2010-11 Capital One Academic All-District Women's At-Large Team
Named to USCSCA All-Academic Team
Finished 16th in 5K free, leading 'Cats participants, and took 37th place in 15K classic at NCAA Championships
Selected to participate in NCAA Championships, hosted by University of Vermont
Named to EISA All-East Second Team
Finished 10th in 5K free at EISA Championships at Bates
Part of victorious 3x3 sprint relay team (Egan, Kullas) and placed 10th in 10K free at Middlebury Carnival
Finished 9th in 15K classic and 15th in 5K free at Dartmouth Carnival
Placed 6th in 15K classic and 13th in 5K free at Vermont Carnival
Took 9th place in 10K classic and was part of 2nd-place 3x5 relay team (Bean, Egan) at Colby Carnival
Finished 3rd in 5K classic and 8th in 10K free at St. Lawrence Carnival
Competed in all six carnivals; individual top performance was 8th in 15K at St. Lawrence; placed 10th in 10K free at St. Michael's; on classic sprint relay team that finished 4th at St. Michael's; on 3x5K free relay team that placed 6th at Dartmouth; earned 11th in 5K free at Williams; Finished 13th (5K classic) and 16th (10K free) at UVM.
Graduate of Park City High School 2009 ... All-State Academic Team in both skiing and cross crountry as a senior ... ranked as All American in Jr. Olympics from 2006-09 ... earned three silver medals at the 2007 Jr. Olympics ... earned two silvers at 2009 Jr. Olympics ... participated in the J1 Scandanavian Cup Trip in 2009 ... ranked 3rd in J1 Girls in 2009.


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International education has been incorporated into the lives of many at the University of Colorado Boulder, enriching the academic, research, and cultural environment of campus and beyond.
During the 2011-12 school year, CU-Boulder will be home to more than 1,300 international students. An estimated one-quarter of CU-Boulder's undergraduate students will pursue an overseas study program or service-learning project. The Office of International Education sponsors more than 300 study abroad programs in more than 70 countries.
Undergraduate programs: CU-Boulder's undergraduate education focuses on academic excellence, community outreach, global competency, and career readiness. CU-Boulder offeres 80 majors at the bachelor's level andmore than 30 concurrent bachelor's and master's degree programs. Learn more about Undergraduate Majors.
Graduate programs: As a top-tier research insitution, CU-Boulder offers 49 doctorial and 51 master's degree programs ina full rnage of disciplines. Our graduate students participate in the creation of new data, ideas, and techniques with professors who are actively involved in research and creative activity. Learn more about graduate degree programs.
The University of Colorado Boulder strongly encourages students to study abroad and can help you add international experience to your own college career while still graduating in four years. Studying abroad allows you to earn academic credit toward your CU-Boulder degree while taking courses in another country. Study abroad enhances your degree and career opportunities, and it can bring to light interests you never knew you had. CU-Boulder offers more than 300 programs in over 70 countries around the world.
Learn more about Study Abroad Programs.
The College of Arts & Sciences is dedicated to providing a global liberal arts education for undergraduates, graduate education, and world class research and creative works.
The College of Engineering & Applied Science focuses on developing programs to advance engineering for a global society and expanding opportunities for integrated and discovery learning to develop a more global learning environment
Residential Academic Programs (RAPs) provide you with a shared learning and living experience in a community setting.
Each year, CU-Boulder faculty collaborate with researchers all over the world (and beyond it) on hundreds of research and creative efforts that cross virtually every academic discipline—from measuring ice melt in Greenland, the Arctic and Antarctica, to engaging in global business research in Beijing, China, to working to identify the effects of space travel through collaborations with foreign nations in the International Space Station. The breadth of our global engagement brings an continuous infusion of fresh knowledge and perspective to the campus, enhancing the CU-Boulder academic experience through visiting scholar exchanges that brings some of the world's best minds to engage in research at CU—and sending our own faculty and students to do the same in nearly every country across the globe.
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Contact Us • Privacy • Legal & Trademarks • Accessibility • Student Consumer Information


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Daily Sales Up to 70% OFF Limited-time deals start every day at 12 pm ET.
|AIM Sports inc. was established in 2007. We first started by working on several O.E.M. projects for many major companies. During that time we saw an increase in dealer/distributor request for wholesale items. Since then we have produced and manufactured scopes and accessories for the hunting/shooting industry under the AIM brand. From a simple A2 sight adjustment tool to a heavy duty game hauler/deer cart; AIM has you covered. In all honesty, when we first started with our AIM brand of items we had our challenges. However we understood to be successful in this industry, we had to listen to our customer's honest and sometimes fustrating feedback. We learned quickly. When a product was not acceptable, going back to the drawing board was something we were not afraid to do. To this very day we continue to improve and find better ways to develop new products. Our Research and Development team with over 10 years of experience is what continues to make our products more superior than before. They will not stop working until they are completely satisfied with the results. As avid shooters, they will not develop an item they are not willing to put on their own personal weapons. With their help and hard work we have now surpassed 300 products; but don't take our word for it, let our actions show you what AIM Sports has in store this year.


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Neurology, Psychiatry Grand RoundsEvent Details: 8:00 a.m. - 9:00 a.m., February 03
The department of neurology and psychiatry will host grand rounds in two different locations from 8-9 a.m. Thursday, Feb. 3.
The neurology division lecture will be held in the SLU School of Medicine, 1402 So. Grand, Schwitalla Hall, lecture hall 1. The entrance is through the Learning Resource Center, 3544 Caroline Mall.
The neurology lecture, "Compliment and Multiple Sclerosis," will be given by Feng Lin, Ph.D., assistant professor of pathology at Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine, Cleveland, Ohio.
in was trained as an immunologist. Since 1997, Lin has been studying the role of complement and complement regulators in the pathogenesis of autoimmune diseases at Case Western Reserve University.
Recently, using different complement gene engineered mice, Lin and his colleagues discovered that complement components locally produced in the microenvironment, and not the complement components systemically produced in the liver, are important for T cell activation in experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis(EAE), an animal model of Multiple Sclerosis (MS). These results reveal an unconventional role of complement in the pathogenesis of MS, suggesting that complement is a potential therapeutic target in MS treatment.
The psychiatry division lecture will be held Monteleone Hall, 1438 So. Grand Blvd., Classroom A. Entry to Monteleone Hall is through the double doors in the rear of the building.
The program, "Psychosis and Anti-psychotic Medications," will be presented by psychiatrist, Ravinder Goswami, M.D.


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$7,252.39 $6,708.99
$7,586.42 $7,017.99
$5,439.56 $5,031.99
$5,934.66 $5,489.99
Vortech 560HP Complete Supercharger System
Complete, fully calibrated, smog legal supercharging systems are available for the 2005-2010 Chrysler/Dodge SRT8 vehicles. Featuring the V-3 Si centrifugal supercharger with Vortech's air-to-water double pass charge cooler system. The complete system will boost your stock Dodge Magnum, Charger and Challenger to a scorching 560 horsepower and 510 lb/ft of torque.
The system uses Vortech's V-3 Si supercharger. Continued development in Vortech's Lab has resulted in the V-3 Si. The "i" stands for improved and with its new patented oil control system and state of the art centrifugal compressor stage this V-3 literally blows away the competition. Industry leading 78% adiabatic efficiency [SAE J1723 standard] means less heat is being generated, drive power is reduced and more net power is produced. Less heat also means better durability.
Vortech supercharger systems are a great value. Dollar for dollar, Vortech systems deliver more horsepower than virtually any other method of upgrade. Also, driven normally, gas mileage often increases rather than decrease.
50-State Smog Legal Supercharger
All 6.1L complete systems are 50-State Smog Legal per CARB EO # D-213-31
Model/Year Availability
Complete systems available for:
2008-2010 Challenger
Tuner kits are available for 2005-2010 all models.
Quality Features
Tuner Kits and Supercharger Options
Tuner kits are the same as complete systems except without the fuel system upgrades or ECM reprogramming. This allows for custom tuning and fuel modifications that the custom tuner or racer may prefer. Vortech has supercharger options for various types of racing or boost level. For continued use, such as road racing, the V-2 series superchargers share the engine's oiling system. This approach is more suitable for continued boost conditions and allows for the addition of an oil cooler or filter.


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to MPA
Home ·
Prospective Students ·
Traditional MPA ·
Tips for Applying ·
Admissions FAQs
Step-by-step directions for applying to the Texas MPA
An interview generally is not required, and applicants cannot request an interview as part of the MPA admissions process. However, the admissions committee may request an interview on a case-by-case basis. Our admissions, academic, and career representatives are more than happy to meet with prospective students to answer questions about the program, admissions process and/or career opportunities. Please contact the MPA Program Office at 512-471-6559 to set an appointment with an MPA representative or submit a campus visit form to arrange a more comprehensive visit.
The early preferred application deadline for U.S. permanent residents or citizens is December 1, and the final submission deadline is March 1. The application deadline for international applicants is January 5.
To see if your application materials have been received by the Graduate and International Admissions Center (GIAC), please check the Application Status Check page. You will be required to login using your UT EID and password, which are assigned after submitting your online application. If you have questions about the status of your application materials after viewing the online information, please contact GIAC directly. Please avoid mailing in documentation, as hard copies will significantly delay the processing of your application.
All application materials, including the official test scores, must be received before the admissions committee will review your file for an admissions decision. Applications completed after the application deadline will be considered on a space-available basis.
U.S. applications will be reviewed in the order of completion starting with those completed by the December 1 deadline. Decisions are released on a rolling basis, generally beginning in January. International applications are not reviewed on a rolling admissions basis, and the majority of decisions will be released by the end of March. Applications completed after the final submission deadlines will be considered on a space-available basis. Please note that the admissions committee may decide to admit, deny, or place an applicant on a waitlist, depending on the strength of the applicant's entire application and space availability.
Your decision will be immediately posted on the Application Status Check page, and you will receive an e-mail notification from the Graduate and International Admissions Center once a decision has been reached. Students who are accepted to the MPA program also will receive an e-mail notification from the MPA Program Office.
If you should receive an admission offer from another university and need to respond to the offer before you receive a decision from the Texas MPA program, please e-mail the name of the university and the admission response deadline to Keri Ledezma. Although the admissions committee cannot guarantee an earlier admission decision, we will do our best to accommodate your request.
Most application materials are kept for one year. Applicants who reapply must submit a new online application, an application processing fee and an updated resume (if applicable).
Additional letters of recommendation, a revised essay and updated test scores are not required but may be submitted at the applicant's discretion. Applicants who have undertaken additional coursework must submit an updated transcript. International students will need to provide an updated statement of financial support if admitted to the MPA program.
The required application materials are outlined on the Application Materials Checklist page.
The online application is the fastest, safest and most efficient method of applying. As a result, we no longer accept paper applications. The online application can be saved and revisited as often as needed before officially submitting it (just make note of your application number, as directed).
All admissions documents can be submitted electronically. Please avoid mailing in documentation, as hard copies will significantly delay the processing of your application.
We do not grant requests for waivers or deferrals of the MPA application fee.
Choose references who know you in an academic or professional context and are familiar with your academic or professional achievements, credentials, career aspirations and work history, if applicable. References should speak to your personal qualities, career potential, and potential to succeed in the classroom.
Although only two recommendation letters are required for the MPA application, applicants are welcome to submit more than two letters, if preferred. All recommendation letters that are submitted will be reviewed.
If you are unable to provide an e-mail address for a reference, you may have the reference return the recommendation form and attached letter to you in sealed envelopes with their signatures across the seal, and you can include the letters in your "mailed items" packet to GIAC. Please note that submitting a paper copy instead of an online recommendation will delay the processing of your application, so it is highly recommended that your references submit an online recommendation whenever possible.
After you have submitted your online application for admission, you can log into the application status check website to monitor the status of your recommendation requests, resend the "Request for Reference" e-mail to your references, or add a new reference.
We strongly suggest that you follow the MPA Application Resume Guidelines and use the MPA Application Resume Template when formatting and constructing your resume.
Submitting your resume in the MPA format is not required but highly recommended. If you are admitted and decide to attend the MPA program, you will need to update your resume in this format if you wish to participate in employment recruiting.
Due to substantial MPA applicant volume, the MPA admissions and career services staff are unable to assist applicants with resume content or format. However, we have provided detailed guidelines, a list of action words and a Word template to assist you. If admitted, you will use this format again during the MPA recruiting process and receive individualized attention from our MPA career consultants. They will work with you to fine-tune your resume content to maximize its effectiveness.
Updated resumes can be resubmitted in the document upload system.
Please refer to tips for applying for the UT-Austin institution codes.
Although the MPA program does not impose a minimum GMAT score, it is considered an important component of the MPA application. We consider the GMAT in the context of a holistic review of all admissions criteria. For a general guide, please see the GMAT test score range and average for the current MPA class.
GMAT scores are valid for five years from the test date. As long as the official score report is submitted before the expiration of the exam, we can use the score for admission purposes. In other words, the exam does not have to be valid at the time of enrollment. For example, if you took the exam in November 2009 and submit the scores by November 2014, we can use the scores for the entire application cycle for fall 2015. If you do not submit the scores by November 2014, you would need to retake the exam.
The GMAT is one of many factors (including recommendations, resume, essay, undergraduate GPA, etc.) that we consider when reviewing an application. Therefore, all applicants to the MPA program are required to submit GMAT scores. We do not accept the GRE in lieu of the GMAT.
If you retake the GMAT or TOEFL, the higher of the two total scores will be considered (scores are not averaged). If you have submitted all application materials and plan to retake the GMAT or TOEFL, please inform Keri Ledezma of your original score and new test date, or the admissions committee may make a decision based on your first set of scores. Please note that if your new scores arrive after the final submission deadline, your application may be considered on a space-available basis.
We accept either the Internet-based TOEFL or IELTS test scores. The MPA program prefers a minimum Internet-based TOEFL score of 105 overall and a minimum of 24 for each individual section, or minimum IELTS band scores of 7.5.
We will not accept paper-based or computer-based TOEFL test scores. The Internet-based TOEFL is the only version that includes a speaking score. English speaking skills are essential to success in the MPA program, and the speaking score is one of the important criteria that are factored into the admission decision.
All international MPA applicants, except those from English-only speaking countries, must submit either an Internet-based TOEFL or IELTS official score report.
Only applicants from English-only speaking countries are allowed to waive the test requirement. Please visit the GIAC website for a list of countries which qualify for the waiver. If you studied (or are studying) an undergraduate or a graduate degree in an English-only speaking country, your TOEFL/IELTS score requirement will NOT be waived. However, you may request that a copy of your expired Internet-based TOEFL or IELTS score report be used for your MPA application if the scores meet our minimum requirement. Please e-mail the following information to Keri Ledezma: a copy of your TOEFL or IELTS score report, the university where you studied your degree, the degree earned and major, your graduation date, and the total length of time spent in the U.S.
Both the TOEFL and IELTS scores are valid for two years from the test date. As long as the test score is submitted by the testing agency before the expiration of the exam, we can use the score for admission purposes. In other words, the exam does not have to be valid at the time of enrollment. For example, if you took the exam in November 2012 and submit the scores before November 2014, we can use the scores for the entire application cycle for fall 2015. If you do not submit the scores by November 2014, you would need to retake the exam. If you studied (or are studying) an undergraduate or graduate degree in an English-only speaking country and your Internet-based TOEFL/IELTS test scores have expired, you may request that a copy of your expired Internet-based TOEFL or IELTS score report be used for your MPA application if the scores meet our minimum requirement. Please e-mail the following information to Keri Ledezma: a copy of your TOEFL or IELTS score report, the university where you studied your degree, the degree earned and major, your graduation date, and the total length of time spent in the U.S.
English skills are essential for success in the MPA program, both academically and professionally. As a result, meeting the preferred minimum score requirement greatly strengthens your application. If your scores are below our suggested minimum, we highly recommend that you work on improving your English skills and retake the test.
It is not necessary for you to submit your high school transcript for the MPA program application. Please submit transcripts from junior or community colleges if you completed our pre-enrollment requirements or any accounting courses at these institutions.
Please visit the Graduate and International Admissions Center website and the MPA application materials checklist for detailed information regarding transcripts. If you have any questions regarding the transcript requirement, please contact the Graduate and International Admissions Center.
If the study abroad was for one semester only and the credit appears on your U.S. transcript, you will not need to request a transcript from the foreign university. However, if you studied more than one semester abroad, you will need to request the transcript from the foreign university.
The Graduate and International Admissions Center calculates your GPA using only upper-division (junior- and senior-level) coursework and any non-professional graduate work.
The Certification of Financial Responsibility is used for immigration document processing, not for admissions purposes. Therefore, the form is not required for the completion of an admissions application. However, the International Office will not issue the Form I-20 or Form DS-2019 until a student has been officially admitted and certification of adequate financial resources has been received.
All applicants must possess the equivalent of the four-year U.S. bachelor's degree from an accredited institution. Many degrees conferred by institutions outside of the U.S., while ostensibly referred to with the name "bachelor's" do not meet this four-year standard. The Graduate and International Admissions Center determines degree equivalencies. Please contact the Graduate and International Admissions Center directly with any questions.
Please visit the MPA program pre-enrollment requirements web page.
Completing the pre-enrollment courses prior to applying will greatly strengthen your application, as you will be able to demonstrate accounting and quantitative skills to the admissions committee. In certain cases, a high-achieving applicant who is lacking a pre-enrollment requirement may be admitted to the MPA program but would be expected to complete the requirement prior to enrolling.
We welcome applicants with bachelor's degrees from any academic discipline. MPA Student Profile
Work experience is not required but can strengthen an application.
The admissions committee carefully considers each completed application, with particular attention to personal essays, prior academic performance, letters of recommendation, extracurricular and community activities, honors and achievements, test scores, and work history (if applicable). In general, the MPA program looks for well-rounded students with balanced strengths in motivation, academic ability, communication skills and quantitative skills. More information
We cannot provide an estimate on your chances of being admitted to the MPA program. Each application is evaluated in its entirety and in comparison with the rest of the applicant pool for a particular year. Please refer to characteristics of a strong application for more information.
Page last updated: 8/29/2013
By phone: (512) 471-5921
By mail:
1 University Station, B6000
Austin, TX 78712-1178
In person:
2110 Speedway
Austin, TX 78705
©2015 McCombs School of Business, The University of Texas at Austin | Technology Resources | Contact Us


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Chinese New Year Barbie® Doll
Chinese New Year begins with the new moon on the first day of the year and ends with the full moon fifteen days later. On the fifteenth day, called Lantern Festival, there's a parade of children carrying lanterns after dark. Celebrated with firecrackers, dragon dances and red envelopes of money, this ancient Asian festival finds Barbie® doll wearing a red dress featuring traditional Chinese motifs and a mandarin collar.
Doll cannot hold envelope as shown.
For ages 6 and over.
Production doll may vary from the photo shown above. Mattel reserves the right to modify the fashion/fabrics, sculpt, hair color/style, and accessories. Doll cannot stand alone as shown.


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This University in compliance with all applicable federal and state laws and regulations does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, genetic information, age, religion, disability, political beliefs, or status as a veteran in any of its policies, practices, or procedures. This includes but is not limited to admissions, employment, financial aid, and educational services.
The University of Oklahoma, recognizing its obligation to guarantee equal opportunity to all persons in all segments of University life, reaffirms its commitment to the continuation and expansion of positive programs which reinforce and strengthen its affirmative action policies. This commitment stems not only from compliance with federal and state equal opportunity laws but from a desire to ensure social justice and promote campus diversity. The University will continue its policy of fair and equal employment practices for all employees and job applicants without insidious discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, genetic information, age, religion, political beliefs, disability or status as a veteran. The University will maintain a critical and continuing evaluation of its employment policies, programs and practices. Each budget unit bears a responsibility for constructive implementation of this Plan, and whenever possible, to the overall progress toward employment opportunity and participation in all University programs and activities. Our commitment to the concept of affirmative action requires sincere and cooperative efforts throughout all levels of our employment structure. We will continue to strive to reach the goals of fair and equal employment opportunities for all.