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Dec 18, 2007
Some thoughts on FLL competition... Part II
1. Table construction
The table I was a referee for (2 tables, actually) were not matched properly. One table was about 1/8 to 1/4" lower than the other and this caused the satellite to be angled lower on one side and higher on the other. There were quite a few teams that "missed" the trigger because there robot was designed for a perfectly horizontal surface and the trigger at a very specific height from the table's bottom. Obviously, this mismatch in table heights caused some headache, so I gave many teams the benefit of the doubt and awarded the points (and the satellite pointer) if I was able to determine they would have triggered it if the satellite had been at the correct angle (equal on both sides). The point here - inspect your table before you begin and let the referee know if you have any concerns.
2. Trays on table
We (all refs) did not allow trays to be set in the parking lot. This caused some controversy as any team that wished to use some sort of tray or box to have to hold it or sit it on the floor. Most teams just placed the correct pieces in the parking lot, but for some reason this ruling caused some irritation. If this is a key point to your team's success, discuss it with the refs before competition starts and find out the ruling. (As I understand it, trays are allowed but non-LEGO parts are NOT allowed to be set on the table - before everyone rushes in on this one, let's keep the comment to 1 or 2 AND only if you have an official answer and can provide a reference)
3. Sleep Timer
I had one or two robots turn themselves off during the waiting period before a match - this obviously caused the team problem when the match started because they thought the robot was turned on and ready to go. REMEMBER: either set your sleep timer to 30 minutes or 1 hour or off completely - you don't want to risk your robot turning off while you wait and then having to go through the power up while the clock is ticking.
4. Rescue
Find out what your referee's position is on robot rescue. If the referee or a team member touches the robot outside of base, you lose a barrel as a penalty. Find out if the referee will allow the team member to reach for the robot or if the ref prefers to do it. Most refs will allow the team member to reach for their own robot if they say they are doing so - otherwise a request to the ref for a rescue might be required. Again, ask and know the procedure.
5. Sensors... again
Yes, I forgot that every NXT team is using the rotation sensor built into a motor. But when I was talking sensors, I was specifically referring to either the Ultrasonic or Light or Touch. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Touch sensor makes a great "start" button and can replace the Orange Enter button on the front of the Brick. I saw MANY MANY teams reaching around to press the Orange button and not get their hands pulled away fast enough causing the robot to bump off course and forcing the team to grab and restart. If you've got a spare Touch sensor, mount it on top or to the side of your robot. In your program, you simply place a WAIT-TOUCH block (Orange block with the Hourglass and Touch Sensor symbols on it) and program it to wait until the Touch sensor is bumped (pressed and released)... then any remaining programming blocks in the program will begin to execute. This gives you time to pull your hand away without interfering with your robot's movement AND keeps you from having to reach around in an awkward position to push the Orange button.
6. Gears
Many teams asked about gears - they knew that gearing could give a robot more speed using certain gearing (and more power using other gearing options). This isn't the place to provide that information, but rest assured that there are plenty of places on the Internet that can show you how to use gearing with your NXT robot to give you either more speed or more pushing power.
7. Professional behavior
I cannot praise the teams I saw enough regarding their behavior at the competition. Teams were happy to be there and I saw ZERO trash-talking and/or negative comments from any teams. I think this was what made the event so successful - all the adults I spoke with that day were just smiling and laughing at how much fun the kids were having. I know it's a contest, but there was a team there that was high-fiving one another after completing ONLY the two missions they set out to complete. They weren't there to win but to show their parents/coach and everyone else that they were successful in making their robot do something over and over again. They chose to ignore the contest and focus on very specific obstacles that they decided to try and tackle. In the process, they learned some very important building and programming concepts and can apply those to future tasks.
8. Ingenuity
I think my earlier post may have misled people into thinking there was no innovation in terms of robot building. Completely untrue. Whereas sensors were missing from 95% of the robots, there were some true engineering marvels seen that day in terms of construction and execution. I saw some solutions to certain missions that I honestly NEVER would have thought of but now I have some new tricks in my bag after observing them. It never ceases to amaze me how a team can come up with a solution that no one has ever considered. I would estimate that out of the 30 robots I saw that day, about 5-10 of them had an innovative mechanism or method for solving a mission.
9. Combination Missions
Someone emailed and asked about teams performing two or more missions at a time. Yes, this did happen, but not that often. When I saw it, it was mostly the robot starting out by doing the satellite mission and then turning left or right to do one additional mission. I did see 1 team during the entire day that attempted (successfully) 3 missions in one shot (won't tell you which ones to protect that team's strategy). Given the time limit on the missions, I do think that the winning teams at International this year are going to absolutely have to combine missions in order to reduce time at base. Time in base may be only 5 or 10 seconds, but do that 5 or 6 times and you've lost 1 minute of competition time. Think about it.
10. Attachments
I believe that 90% of the teams I saw used some sort of attachment in one or more missions. By attachment, I'm talking about something easily and quickly removed at base in order to prep the robot for the next mission. There were a couple of robots that were completely stand-alone and required no additional work (they were larger in size, obviously). I even saw a few Tribots in the mix! Some teams get their kits late in the game and there is no reason to reinvent the wheel; if the Tribot works for you as a good base, go for it. It certainly is capable of holding and using attachments as the NXT-G software exercises demonstrate. Either way, the variety of attachments I saw was large - I saw cages, pincers, launchers, lances, etc. Keep in mind, though, that an attachment is only as good as it is structurally sound. If it's flimsy and comes apart easy in your hands, imagine what the satellite or house are going to do to it if they collide.
13 comments:
- Joshua Heinzl said...
1. Table construction
1/8" to 1/4" in height different is pretty large! This would not have affected us, but still wow! I think the table instructions should be followed a little more carefully:
3. Sleep Timer
There are ways to fix this other than changing the default sleep timer.
4. Rescue
Team members are allowed to rescue the robot. See rule 21:
5. Sensors... again
The built-in motor encoders can be used for more than just odometry navigation! That's all I can comment on this one though ;)
6. Gears
The NXT does not encourage gears in many situations unfortunately.
7. Professional behavior
Professional behavior this year is, in my experience, much better than in previous years. Most teams are congratulatory and well spirited. This certainly lightens the competition atmosphere a little bit.
9. Combination Missions
It is also my experience that the top teams will combine missions. We complete all the missions in 8 sorties.
10. Attachments
As I've said before, teams need to learn and *think* about how to construct robust structures! Lego doesn't hold itself together under forces in all directions!
- Dec 18, 2007, 7:40:00 AM
My team competed on one pair of tables where the satellite was tilted away quite a lot, making the lever higher off the mat. The robot drivers noticed this during the prep time, and fortunately their plan was to trigger the satellite with a container. They quickly modified their container, taking LEGOs off the sides and building up the height on the front to reach the lever. I was very proud of them for solving the problem on the fly.
- Dec 18, 2007, 9:35:00 AM
- Ethan Steckmann said...
1. Table construction
Our competition host built very nice tables but they didnt follow the rules and this killed some teams in the mars mission
3. Sleep Timer
All i can say is OMG that would stink but really they just need to learn the hard way sometimes.
4. Rescue
Team members are allowed to rescue
5. Sensors... again
The built-in motor encoders are great but ya i would love to see next years compatition with more followable lines and stuff that would make a team want to use sensors.
its worth noting that the walls also make great sensors
6. Gears
the drive motors dont need them but some attachment motors do. also gear are inefective and you loss pertion and power
7. Professional behavior
Team seemed more professional and less gracius professional this year then in past years
9. Combination Missions
this is a huge must if you want to get them all dont in under 2:30 but you do loss percision with each mission you add
10. Attachments
atachment we very simple this year we want less missions that are harder
- Dec 18, 2007, 12:04:00 PM
- Joshua Heinzl said...
"its worth noting that the walls also make great sensors "
A wall is not a sensor, but utilizing it is landmark navigation.
"the drive motors dont need them but some attachment motors do. also gear are inefective and you loss pertion and power"
Sounds like you need to have a little lesson on gears. Gears can be used to increase torque or increase speed, but there is a tradeoff.
"this is a huge must if you want to get them all dont in under 2:30 but you do loss percision with each mission you add"
If you want a perfect score you have to do them all in under 2:30 ;)
"atachment we very simple this year we want less missions that are harder"
Not sure about other teams but I know our attachments were not 'simple'. They may have had simple concepts but they were not 'simple'.
I'd rather see the same or larger number of missions some/all with increased difficulty :) I'd like to see VERY few to no 400s.
- Dec 18, 2007, 4:47:00 PM
- GeekyTom said...
We suffered from the table height problem as well, but it was a triple failure. Our first mission was combination of tree and wind turbine delivery and tripping the satellite. Unfortunately our trigger arm slipped under the arm on the satellite (something we of course NEVER anticipated) when the robot finally dislodged itself, it took out our trees and turbines at the same time. Luckily my team took it in stride.
- Dec 18, 2007, 5:12:00 PM
- Talking Chimp said...
I just have to step in here and say that I find some of the comments by FLL judges here a bit disheartening.
I can look beyond the comments like "you're ignorant or lazy if you don't use sensors," since that is merely a narrow vision of FLL. What upsets me is that some judges are so deeply involved in the tech aspect of FLL that they unwittingly have lost partial sight of the FLL purpose.
I coach a group of regular kids. They're not geniuses, nor are they idiots. However, because it is a school team, we basically took all comers, first come first served. At first, we limited it to 6 kids and "rejected" another 4 who wanted to join. But then we felt that the detriment of expanding to 10 kids was outweighed by the benefit the additional 4 kids would receive from participating. So, we expanded to 10 kids, despite recommendations to the contrary.
One of our kids is ADHD or possibly on the functional autism spectrum. Another is so highly intelligent that he has great difficulty working in groups (or even with just one other kid). Another has a great mind for programming, but cannot assert himself strongly in a group. They are the WORST kids to deal with, and they are my favorite kids to deal with, for just those reasons.
It was not a great experience for us coaches. Very much like herding cats. But every kid on our team had moments here and there when the light would go on, and you could see the moment of discovery in his/her eyes. Those moments were worth all the occasional incidents of having to "time out" them for behavior.
Their approaches to the missions are pedestrian, to say the least. Tools are crude, programming is elementary (push and return), and their overall strategy is fragmented.
Still, we managed to eek out 210 points, which was good for us.(A perfect run would have been 260). The judges at our table were wonderful, as were the ones at the project presentation. From what I gather, the interview went fairly well.
But when I read comments on this blog that criticize teams for not striving harder for excellence or not going beyond just the points, it is disappointing. I understand what you're trying to say, and I agree to a large extent. And I know that in the few minutes that you have with a team, it is impossible for you to know their back-story. '
Still, I would like judges to know that there are many teams like mine, in which the kids are not and probably never will be technically very proficient. But, the little leaps they make from novice to beginner are tremendous, not just in my eyes, but those of their parents, too.
Not all of us are seeking to discover the full potential of the Mindstorms robot. We're just there to have some fun and teach the kids some life lessons.
Having said all that, I did teach them the touch, light, and ultrasound sensors, after reading judges' comments on the lack thereof. But the kids soon learned that the sensors inhibited their progress for the same reasons stated by others in these comments.
They learned how to use the sensors. What's the point of showing it, if it lowers your score? As long as the kids learned it, I don't care if the judge knows it. We're coaching for the kids, not the judges.
Judges: I and the parents appreciate in spades all that you do. You teach our kids, and you teach us coaches/parents. But please remember, when finding fault in a team, that perhaps those faults are compensated by a team dynamic that developed during the 10 weeks of practice. Some teams, like mine, are there for the 10 weeks of practice, and not necessarily the final result. Judges are not expected to know the growth that the team or its individual members experienced. But many times, that is the result of which we are the most proud.
Thanks, judges. You do great work. But please be a little gentler and remember that some of us are just regular folk.
- Coach Dad
EPILOGUE: The judges at our tournament recognized the non-robot qualities of our team. With our paltry 210 (bottom 50th percentile) and our very elementary Tribot and push-return programming, we still received an invitation to the State Championship. Lowest table score of all that advanced. Thank you! Thank you!
- Dec 19, 2007, 3:17:00 AM
- Jim Kelly said...
Coach Dad,
I apologize if my postings came off as criticisms of novice teams - that was not my intent. I was just posting observations, take them or leave them, that I thought might benefit some teams or at least just start some discussion.
One of your statements, though, "They learned how to use the sensors. What's the point of showing it, if it lowers your score?" has me in a quaundry, though.
You are correct that using sensors might cause a team to have to change its strategy so much that it suffers points. But I have to ask the question, what is your goal with FLL? Is it to have the students learn some new skills, try new methods, and explore the world of science, math, and engineering or is it just to win a contest?
I know - we all love to win games and come in 1st place. But I think FLL sometimes suffers from the "win win win" mindset and forgets that a large portion of the endeavor is to simply learn and explore.
Your points are well taken and your team deserves a congrats for the scores it received. New or old teams, though, need to focus less on 1st place and more on just the road to getting there... 1st place is just icing on the cake if the team walks away with some new skills and appreciation for real-world engineering.
- Dec 19, 2007, 4:04:00 AM
- Talking Chimp said...
Quandary clarification: What I meant was that the kids did learn how to use the sensors; so, they gained by learning the skill. If one goal of FLL is to "learn and explore," then mission accomplished.
There was nothing to gain by demonstrating at the tournament that they had learned it, other than just to show the judge. The greater value is for the kids to learn, not necessarily to show at the tournament what they have learned (although, that would be nice, too). Like you said, our focus was on the road getting there.
What I'm trying to say is that I care less about what the judge knows our kids can do, than I care what the kids know what they can do.
We did not sacrifice learning for points. We got both. (We did use a touch sensor for the Oil Platform mission.)
- Dec 19, 2007, 4:46:00 AM
There has been an interesting idea on the FLL forum recently. To reduce the number of perfect scores, and to encourage use of sensors and more complicated programming, someone proposed a point penalty for every time the robot returns to base. The penalty would be on an increasing scale: 1 point deduction for the first return to base, 2 points for the second return, 3 points for the third, etc. Thus, five returns to base would be 5+4+3+2+1 or 15 points deduction. The individual missons could still be easy enough for rookie teams to do, but the challenge of doing multiple missions in one run would challenge the advanced teams.
I am still mulling this idea over. I think this could be good. Some thought would need to be given to the current "robot rescue" penalty: keep it the same, or drop it and use the "return to base" penalty only.
- Dec 19, 2007, 9:10:00 AM
- Ethan Steckmann said...
I dont need to learn about gears i know how to use them and what they do but every gear you use you loss a tiny amount of energy.
So what i said still stands gears loss you ENERGY and gain you power OR speed
Also the walls are landmarks but you can you the nxt motor encoders to sense when you are lined up on the wall.
- Dec 20, 2007, 3:25:00 AM
- Joshua Heinzl said...
"So what i said still stands gears loss you ENERGY and gain you power OR speed"
"the drive motors dont need them but some attachment motors do. also gear are inefective and you loss pertion and power"
Energy and power are different ^_^ I believe what you mean is you can gain torque OR speed.
The power that is lost in a geared system is nominal. This is a bad reason for not using gears as they are effective when needed.
"Also the walls are landmarks but you can you the nxt motor encoders to sense when you are lined up on the wall."
Exactly, which means the wall is a landmark and your encoders are sensors.
- Dec 20, 2007, 3:39:00 AM
How about documenting some of those ideas (from #8) you saw that you wouldn't have thought of.and putting them in this blog so everyone can benefit!
- Jan 4, 2008, 2:52:00 AM
Recently a poster with the initials FJ has been spamming the blog trying to post an item that was chosen to be deleted.
This person has stated that he/she was a judge for FLL. If anyone knows who this person is, please contact us. It's a shame that an adult has to behave like this - and this is a person who is most likely considered to be a role model by some.
The comment this person is attempting to upload is now being automatically deleted by a Rule but we would sure like to know who is doing it so we can take appropriate action.
The NXT Step Team
- Jan 4, 2008, 8:33:00 AM


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motions, motions to set aside the verdict, motions to reconsider (if the Court
approves docketing the motion and if the defendant can be transported), last
minute pleas before the trial date, motions in limine (if it is the last
Thursday before the trial date), motions for expert funds or for a competency
evaluation, and set dates/jury elections as set by the General District
Court. A judge will be assigned in advance to that one courtroom;
however, other judges may hear cases in that courtroom as well if the
time-sensitive matter needs to be heard by them and they are available.
Any reviews or hearings currently scheduled on the first Thursday of any
given month will proceed as scheduled unless the parties agree to reschedule
the matters. Questions about scheduling matters for Commonwealth Day may
be directed to Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Molly Sullivan at (703) 746-4100.
Bond motions may be scheduled at 9:00 A.M. by calling the Judges' Chambers (703.746.4123) for permission to docket the bond motion. Defense counsel is required to contact the Commonwealth's Attorney's Office prior to docketing the bond motion. Notice of such motions should be given to the Commonwealth's Attorney's Office the day preceding the hearing.
In order to allow both sides adequate time to prepare, substantive motions in criminal cases whether by prosecution or defense shall be noticed for Thursday Commonwealth Days by noon on the preceding Friday and for Tuesday Traffic and Misdemeanor Appeals Day by noon on the preceding Wednesday. Counsel may seek leave of Court to file motions with less notice in unusual circumstances.
TRAFFIC & MISDEMEANOR APPEALSTraffic and misdemeanor motions, and bench trials, and petitions for restoration of driver's license are heard on the third Tuesday of each month at 9:00 A.M. Jury trials of these cases commence at 11:00 A.M.
COPIESIn all cases where a certified copy of an order or other document is desired, the attorney or party should furnish self-addressed, stamped return envelopes for all counsel and pro se parties.
ENDORSEMENT OF ORDERS AND DECREESAttorneys' names, addresses and telephone numbers must appear on all pleadings and orders. Attorneys for both sides must endorse all orders and decrees. All judgment orders shall specifically name the defendant(s) upon which the judgment is granted in the last paragraph of the order.
PAYMENT OF FUNDS INTO COURTAll funds paid into the court will be deposited in the clerk's account, which is non-interest bearing. If counsel or parties desire funds to be deposited into an interest bearing account, they may do so by order of the court. The court order should direct that the funds be paid directly to the General Receiver of the court (not the clerk) who shall deposit the funds in an interest bearing account until further order of the court. The General Receiver will not accept any funds until he has received a copy of the court's order.
INCLEMENT WEATHER POLICYThe Circuit Court will be closed when the City Government (not the City schools) is closed or when the City Government is two or more hours late in opening due to inclement weather.
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520 King St., 3rd & 4th Floors
Alexandria, VA 22314
Office Hours:Monday - Friday,
9:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Contact us for additional information: 703.746.5499 (After Hour Emergencies: 911 or 703.746.4444) | E-mail
Citizens may request maintenance for any tree on City property including street trees planted in the right-of-way. A request for service will be created and an Arborist will be assigned to inspect the tree and determine the necessary maintenance. A copy of the inspection report will be left at the door of the residence. Once inspection is complete, the City's tree crew or contracted maintenance crew will be assigned to complete any required maintenance.
If removal of a tree is required, the city can plant a new tree at no cost to the resident. Click here to learn more about the City's Tree Planting Program.
The Arborist Office will respond to emergency tree damage when a tree falls from or onto City property. City property includes parks, schools, and right-of-way. The following is a list of typical scenarios that residents experience and who they should call or what they should do if they occur:
Trees and/or limbs down blocking a street
If a public or private tree or branch from a tree falls onto a public street and is impeding traffic, it should be reported to the Alexandria Police Department immediately by calling 911 or the non emergency number 703.746.4444. The police will contact the City Arborist Office to respond to the emergency. The City Arborist Office will respond to determine what actions are required. The first priority will be to open up blocked roads. Depending upon the size of the tree or limb, and if there other streets blocked as a result of a severe weather event, the brush, logs and debris may be moved to the side of the road until the first priorities are completed.
Trees and/or tree limbs on power distribution lines
If a public or private tree or branch from a tree falls onto or into power lines, it should be reported to the Alexandria Police Department immediately by calling 911 or the non emergency number 703.746.4444. The police will contact the Dominion Power and City Arborist Office to respond to the emergency. When electrical are damaged, no work can be done to remove fallen or leaning trees or branches until Dominion Power has made the area safe and can insure that the electrical power to the affected lines has been shut off. During severe weather events, it may take several hours for the power company to respond. Only qualified and specially trained tree trimmers are permitted to work within close proximity to live power lines. I should never be assumed the power has been turned off on a line unless it has been confirmed by Dominion Power.
Trees and/or tree limbs from City trees
Trees and/or tree limbs from City trees that have fallen onto public or private property should be reported to the Alexandria Police Department immediately by calling 911 or the non emergency number 703.746.4444. The police will contact the City Arborist Office to respond to the emergency. The City Arborist Office will determine what actions are required. Trees and tree limbs that are blocking access to private property will be removed by City tree crews or contracted tree services on an emergency basis. Materials that have fallen onto private property but are not impeding access will be removed as soon as possible after all emergencies have been addressed. Response time will depend upon the number of calls received during a severe weather event.
Tree and tree limbs that fall from private property
Tree and tree limbs that fall from private property onto another private property are the responsibility of the property owners and must be disposed of by the property owners. Small limbs less than 2 inches in diameter that are cut to 4 foot lengths may be bundled and set out for City trash pick up. Branches, limbs, tree trunks, firewood and stumps should not be left at the curb or on the street. The City will not pick up or dispose of these materials. Residents who leave brush and debris from private property at the curb that is too large or not properly bundled may be cited by the Code Enforcement Division for illegal dumping.
Trees are most often recognized for their environmental
benefit to the community. They help maintain clean air and water, reduce soil
erosion, and can even lower the cost of energy for residential heating and
cooling. The mere presence of trees can also make us feel better about living
in the city, bring beauty to an otherwise stark setting, and enhance the value
of your property. The Notable Tree Program is designed to recognize, preserve
and honor the most noteworthy specimens of trees and shrubs growing in
Alexandria. Specimens of exceptional size or age, historical connection or
ecological importance will be documented and be eligible to be placed on the
register of Notable Trees. The Register of Notable Trees is a public document
that can be shared and enjoyed by all. In honoring these special trees, we
honor not only the past, but also the present and the future. Our hope is that
by sharing this information, all residents of the City will better understand
the community's stewardship role in preserving both our environment and natural
Participate! If you or your neighbor has an outstanding tree
or shrub that you think would qualify for inclusion on the register, nominate
it. Or if you know of an outstanding specimen on public property - you may
nominate it as well. Nominations that are accepted will receive an honorary
certificate and be listed on the public register. Having your private tree
listed does not take away any of your personal property rights, but we do hope
it would inspire you to take good care of it.
are the criteria for a Notable Tree? To be considered noteworthy for listing, a
specimen must be of exceptional size for its species, be an old-age specimen
with a known historical connection (person, place or event), or have ecological
importance as a locally-rare native species. Generally, only native species are
accepted for nomination (see nomination form for exceptions). Some Notable
Trees may also qualify as a City, State or even National Champion. If
nomination is based on size, the tree or shrub will be officially measured by City staff or qualified volunteer using the standards designed by American Forests.
All of Alexandria's current state
champion trees are listed on the register of the Virginia Big Tree Program.
Where can I find noteworthy trees in the City? The City of
Alexandria was once a natural wonder - from rich river floodplains and swamps to
virgin bottomland hardwood forest and tidal marsh. In the past 150 years, urban
development and population growth has taken its toll in the form of buildings,
parking lots and roadways. Fast forward to 2014. Remaining natural forests are
confined to small woodlot-sized parcels or long and narrow stream valleys. Most of our large and historically important
trees are now gone. But if you know
where to look, in wooded nooks and crannies, or sometimes hidden in plain view
in a front or back yard, they are still out there waiting to be discovered and
The best places search for big trees are along river and
stream banks, in cemeteries, church yards, historic properties, and Civil War
sites. Good hunting!
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1108 Jefferson St.
Alexandria, VA 22314703.746.4343Fax: 703.838.6344Email: Information
Office Hours
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James B. Spengler


text:
From The Prime Grill Cookbook: Redefining the Kosher Experience by David Kolotkin and Joey Allaham, © Joey Allaham, used by permission of the publisher, Pelican Publishing Company, Inc.
1 cauliflower head, cut into florets (stems removed)Curry liquid: 11⁄2 tbsp. curry powder for each quart ofwater (see directions for measurement)1 1⁄2 cup leeks, finely chopped (only white part)3 tbsp. garlic, minced1 tbsp. ginger, grated1⁄2 cup pareve cream cheese (regular cream cheesecan be substituted if not serving meat)
Place the cauliflower florets in a small heavy gauged saucepot and add enough curry liquid to cover the cauliflower (the amount of curry liquid will vary according to the size of the pot; therefore, prepare the needed amount according to the size of the pot you are using). Add the leeks, garlic, and ginger. Put the pot on high heat and bring to a boil. Reduce the heat and simmer for about 30 minutes until the cauliflower florets are soft. Remove from the heat, strain over a clean bowl, and reserve the liquids. Pour the cauliflower mixture into a food processor and add the cream cheese, salt, and 1⁄4 cup of the reserved liquid. Puree until smooth and adjust seasoning as needed. Serve the cauliflower with teriyaki-glazed fish.
Chef's Tip: Use a bowl with a lid for the liquid. Don't add all of the water to the curry powder at once. First add a few tablespoons of water to the powder and create a "paste" then add the rest of the water slowly so that the powder will dissolve better in the water.
Recipe: kosher, parve or dairy


text:
- Daniel Powell
- Grand Junction, CO
- United States
This conversation is closed.
Why isn't REAL reform taking place in our education systems? Education is broken, but do any of the current reforms really change anything?
Of the 34 developed countries in the OECD, the United States ranks in the bottom one-third in math and science scores and graduation rate. Our nation isn't catching up, either, it's falling further behind. At least 11 countries are making academic gains at double and even triple the rate of American students. Despite nearly 30 years of reform efforts, little has changed. None of the proposed reforms by President Obama (listed on the White House page for education reform) fundamentally change the educational system.
"…overall, the United States has the same teachers, in the same roles, with the same level of knowledge, teaching in the same schools, with the school day organized the same way, with much the same set of tracked courses, with the same materials, and much the same level of parental support." –Jal Mehta, of the Harvard Graduate School of Education.
In making this comment, Mehta urges us to look at educational reforms that will upend the current system. Education reform is needed, we all agree. If we're going to change education in America, then we need to be serious about making real changes that fundamentally reshape our educational institutions. I challenge educators in America to join the conversation, and to propose profound changes to the system that will disrupt the status quo and challenge traditional education.
Jul 20 2013: As I'm sure you're aware, test scores from other countries can be very deceptive. How 'inclusive' is the population? What are the cultural and language elements? Who is tested? etc. My understanding is that if you take the esl/bilingual, special ed, free-lunch and below the poverty-line kids out of the American scores, Americans rank among the tops in the world. Plus, most high-level American universities have a majority of American students, and these are the same universities that parents from foreign nations are desperately trying to get their kids into - along with some famous English schools like Oxford and Cambridge. Although public schools are an easy target, and every arm-chair teacher has an opinion on how to run the playbook, there may be more to the story than test scores and researchers who may have limited practical experience running public schools.
- +1
Jul 20 2013: So, no other nation has bilingual, poor, special ed. children that they seek to educate? Damn, how did America get so unlucky.
And there is a lot more to the story. Corrupt school boards supporting self serving administrators who pad the programs to insure they can support their 6 figure salary while 25% of their productivity never get finished... to put it in industrial terms. When half of the young adults finish high school with barely enough education to maintain a job at McDonalds.... we got problems.
Jul 25 2013: Ah, you hit my pet peeve - school boards. The only board of directors with no experienced required. Community members (and their little fiefdoms) with control of over half the tax receipts. Maybe, using your 'industrial' reference, we should have our children 'apply for available positions' in school, submitting a resume, and compete for desks. Then we may be able to have the 'resulting accountable output' at a level acceptable to those who measure success via test scores from around the world.
- 0
Lejan .
Jul 19 2013: Maybe because of this:
- +1
Sir Ken Robinson: Bring on the learning revolution!
652.180 views on Youtube
Funny Fat People Dancing
4.887.008 views on Youtube
And the fact, that we are allowing to spent our tax money to bail out Banksters & Co., etc. instead of educating our next generations in the best ways possible ...
Do you see the given priorities?
Scott Bell
Jul 19 2013: eventually the term Reform will dissolve. Replacement may be the one we eventually look for. No one really seems to ask what the purpose of education is. Models emerge from purpose. I'm assuming your perceived Purpose of education is to get a killer Job? A killer Service Job......or perhaps a sweet cubicle.
- +1
A noble topic....education reform. But, we've pulled punches for a wee bit too long.....on ALL parties (including students)Jul 19 2013: There are too many distractions these days; these distractions are enemies of learning.
The love of pleasure and the entitlement mentality of a mass of this generation of learners would suck efficiency out of any and every reform.
It is the people; NOT the system.
Jul 19 2013: So how do we eliminate distraction? How do we motivate the people to change?
Are you contending that there is no solution to this problem?
Mitch SMith
Jul 19 2013: Hi Daniel,
- +1
You are on the mark with this one - good stuff man!
Ignore most the posters below .. they have not been teachers and have had no contact with education and expect a life where all that is someone else's problem .. and use it to transfer wealth from others to themselves through their children.
Harsh words, but that's what is happening.
I just got this from RSA - the latest thing from Robinson .. seems he was listening to the TED community after his old ted talk .. who needs attribution when you have credibility huh?
f. f. f fashion.
Well fashion is not good enough for my kid .. don't dream it be it.
Robinson is paraphrasing what I, and others were saying 2 years ago .. it's not certain, but it looks like it's "all over Red Rover" for the capitalist perversion called "education".
And you know what .. talk talk talk is no more than the gruntings of pigs and the tweeting of birds .. if you haven't done it, your words are noise - and it is money .. grist for the masters.
No one seems to be doing anything these days - it looks like a harvest to me - get in eat them - they will not see what's coming. Our children are ready to get it all .. unless we stop them.
The most abundant commodity on Planet earth right now is surplus human flesh .. and human time . .. what a glut.
The singularity is not heaven - it is burn-out.
Make sure you set your children free to do what must be done.
(damn .. robinson is such a tart .. well .. let's keep working his arms and legs till the sheep get the path - he can have the money)
Jul 19 2013: At most two below are not, or have not been, teachers.
The article Daniel links below is by Jai Mehta for the think tank The American Enterprise Institute. That think tank leans toward more capitalist rather than less capitalist policies and was the major source of policy advisors to the Bush Administration.
In any case, around here and in other places where people are trying to learn and consider different perspectives on questions, I find it is usually worthwhile to consider what a variety of posters have to say.
Jul 20 2013: Yes, but I'm beyond excuses and politeness now.
The tenor of the thing exceeds excuses.
Listening to rationales is a bygone luxury .. an entropy drain.
Now is the time for absolute violence and unrestrained chaos in the most negative expression possible.
Holliday is over.Jul 19 2013: Mitch,
I really enjoyed watching the video of Sir Ken Robinson, and particularly his point about defining the purposes behind education. I would also like my children to have the opportunity to be economically independent, and hopefully our education system will be one tool, among others, that I will use to help me provide that ability to them.
Jul 20 2013: Dan,
I have been practicing Ken's suggested technique for 6 years now .. it works.
It works so spectacularly well, that everything before looks Neanderthal.
Turns out that for thousand of years humans have been ready to be excellent .. so now I'm onto the question of what happened?
Who, and why, have we been retarded by/for .. and who needs to be lined up against walls and shot - with no delay.Jul 18 2013: I think we are looking outward for a solution when the answer is inward, and has to start with the child/parent interaction. When we look to hold the education system or government to accountable for poor performing children, we are trying to redirect blame that we should be accepting.
We as parents need to provide the schools with well behaved, healthy, and well balanced children that are eager to learn. This is accomplished by teaching good social behavior, good work habits, healthy living, and positive living at home, by example, by mentoring, and with copious amounts of love and understanding. We need to provide learning experiences, age appropriate activity learning experiences, social skills training on lessons like politeness, respect, and the importance of doing what is right for yourself and for other people.
When I hear about how poorly the US is doing relative to other countries, I think about some of the problems we have in homes with divorce, bankruptcy, criminal behavior, various illnesses, and, here is a big one,parents that are either unable or unwilling to spend time with their children. Is it more important to have both parents work, and your kids in day care, or to have one parent involved in your child's life at all times? There seems to be a lot of preference for money and lifestyle vs staying at home an teaching your kids some of these important life lessons.
Public education is an opportunity for your child to learn new things that a set of educational experts have determined to be worth learning over time. The teachers have been taught how to teach, the cities have put resources in place for learning to occur.
Like most other things in life, you will only get out of education what you are willing to put in with disciplined work and study. The children should understand this, and parents should re-enforce this lesson at home, then step up to do their part in the education of their child.
Jul 18 2013: Robert,
While I agree with you on many points, I like to think that every child deserves a chance to a great education. Under your theory, if the parents don't care, the child should be left without a chance to receive an education, and in turn, an opportunity to be successful. Why wouldn't we want to do better, if it's well within our capabilities? If this is the stance we take as a nation, then we could be left in the dust as other countries take over in various technological fields. This problem could escalate to the point that even well prepared children cannot receive an education worthy of an advanced, technically driven, globalized economy.
I do concede, however, that community and familial involvement is a key ingredient to education reform. Jal Mehta, who I quoted in my response below, writes about expanding the school system by increasing the communities' role in educating children. Partnering with nonprofits and governmental programs designed to provide prekindergarten, after-school programs, summer environments, health clinics, etc. He cites the success of the Harlem Children's Zone, a program that supports inner-city youth from birth through college. These types of support programs providing support to both parents and children are essential to successful first-world educational systems.
Jul 18 2013: Indeed both research and anecdotal evidence suggest the value of these auxiliary programs that support student learning both outside of school hours and sometimes during as well as the benefits of helping families help their children.
I am surprised at the description of in-school computer use as focusing on display of worksheets as I have actually never seen it used for that but have for a long time seen computers used for what he describes as direct access to a world of online information.
And my experience is with ordinary urban schools rather than affluent suburban ones.Jul 19 2013: We both agree a child a child deserves a chance for a great education. Understand that I like your question, and the opportunity to respond.
I don't really have a theory, but I do believe that percentage wise, the number of students that would benefit from a higher level of parental involvement may be significant enough to raise the US from the bottom third to the top third in math and science. I think the contribution of diligent hard work to both of these subjects is very high, and that while improving the learning techniques will help, it will not solve the real problem.
A child whose parents do not care, still has the opportunity to learn the lessons not taught at home some other way, either at school or some other place. Nothing I said precludes this from happening. I believe the students taught these lessons at home will have a decisive advantage in ANY learning program at school, and since the academic environment is competitive, they may outperform the other students.
Trying to improve the education system is an expectation that I have for the teaching profession. I trust them to expand our capabilities through research, the NEA, etc. and I trust the elected leaders to fund the efforts appropriately.
Having parents involved as volunteer science lab presenters, computer learning volunteers, and field trips to places where interesting technological things are happening is something stay at home parents can do to help the entire group. Outside activities such as Scouts and 4-H are other learning opportunities, but once again fueled by parental volunteers. Modifying the tax code to close the income disparity gap between one income and two income families with children may be something we can do as a nation to help promote increase parental involvement in educating their children.
Doing well in math and science is important, succeeding in life is essential. Parents actively involved in a child's education will help both occur.
Jul 19 2013: Robert,
These are more great points, and I'm pleased that you posted. I was lacking knowledge of programs like the NEA, and am now much more educated. Your idea about modifying tax code is very interested. I wonder if there are any similar proposed initiatives that exist or may be already in action.Jul 22 2013: I'm afraid I don't have time to read all 87 comments so far, but the emphasis seems to be on finding better ways to teach children, with the emphasis still on teaching rather than learning. I now believe the real revolution will come from shifting this perspective and giving children the freedom to educate themselves (providing adult facilitation and assistance, but making the learning completely self-directed).
Peter Gray's new book, Free to Learn, is an excellent book that explains why this is the most effective approach: http://www.amazon.com/Free-Learn-Unleashing-Instinct-Self-Reliant/dp/0465025994/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374504135&sr=8-1&keywords=free+to+learn
His website also has a lot of information: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn. See "The Education Revolution comments section for great examples of what people are doing already).
This organization also has great resources: http://www.educationrevolution.org
Jul 23 2013: Why do you say the emphasis is on teaching rather than learning? Whose emphasis? Would you say something like core standards of what children should understand and be able to do is a learning-based or a teaching-based emphasis?
Jul 23 2013: There are a few basic skills that all young adults should acquire. I still maintain that teaching is selling. Children as buyers have their ideas, needs, and desire that they are looking to satisfy.
If a child desires to be a carpenter, he has no interest in Pythagoras's theory, but he will learn how to use a carpenter's square which is needed to cut the triangles to form stairs and trusses, he will learn how to read contracts, the math to do estimates and learn to read blueprints for takeoffs... He could learn extensive math and never open an arithmetic book. My problem has been that supposedly highly educated and skilled educators rather fall into the idea of one education fits all promoted by the Feds for the money rather then provide young people with the education they would need to be successful adults.
Jul 23 2013: I am absolutely with you, Mike, that children's learning needs are different and that one-size-fits-all models are not best practice in advancing student learning.
My question to Laura was a different one. When choices of how to set up the learning environment are to be guided by what children should come to understand or be able to do rather than how teachers should teach, normally that would be considered a focus on what kids learn (not teacher-based but learning-based). When you aim for certain learning outcomes rather than specifying how services should be delivered, that would normally not be considered a teacher-based emphasis.
As another example, if a principal evaluates a teacher on what she seems to do in class, that is teacher-based. If a principal looks, rather, at what her students are doing and what they show they understand and are able to do, that is student-based. The latter is much more common now, I believe.
I think the charge that the emphasis is teacher-based rather than learning-based may be somewhat behind the times, at least in my experience.Jul 23 2013: I only have a minor in education, so, I am not the expert to directly address a model of effective instruction except to say that I see raw material going into K and I expect a fully functional young adult coming out at 12. I am not one to say that every child should go to college, those who want to should. Young people should not go to college because it is expected of them nor they are made to feel compelled to attend. .
One extreme problem, a major manufacturer in our city has to train high school graduates on how to work. Many quit after a few days because they have to arrive on time and work for the day. That is the output of our public school system..
The saddest story I've heard is that students who are not superior and have not indicated that they would like to go to college are most often shunted to the rear of the room and pretty much ignored, College bound students seem to bring great honor on a school , others are barely tolerated if not outright ignored and many just drop out.... nearly one of four children going into K never graduate from 12 and another fourth graduate are functionally illiterate. Need proof? Go to McDonalds and ask any worker who finished school and ask what was their experiences.
Jul 23 2013: It is interesting that in Texas, by your report "College bound students seem to bring great honor on a school, others are barely tolerated if not outright ignored..." I am much more accustomed to seeing by far the most energy and resources focused on the struggling student.
This must be different in different states.Jul 24 2013: If the student is handicapped or special needs... Energy and resources are focused.
But, just a young student who maybe average, is interested in cars and is not planning on college...
or a young man who is from a poorer family who works nights and weekends with his family landscaping business... and the list goes on...
Jul 24 2013: I wasn't referring to special needs. It must be different in different states.Jul 22 2013: We are seeing reforms ... however, they are directed at Command and Control by the federal government. Those who are seeking change remind me of the "Hard to drain the water while the gators are biting at you." Each year there are new and shifting demands and requirements accompanied with decreasing budgets.
Our administrators and teachers are doing well staying afloat while the amount of chain around their necks is being increased.
Do current reforms really change anything? Yes. They centralize the power in Washington over the states.
The problem as I see it is that some are fighting a war for education .... while the war is about power and control. Perhaps we should understand the problem better in order to level the battlefield.
I wish you well. Bob.
Jul 22 2013: You point is well taken. The Feds dangle funds to entice the public school managers who sell their educational souls for green and their students suffer so.
I have heard of school systems telling the Feds to go Fed themselves... those districts don't do fancy but the kids get schooled and isn't that what it should be all about.Jul 22 2013: I guess the question is, then, do you think the reforms will help anything?
My argument is that the current reforms will do nothing to change the fact that our children are increasingly under-educated to succeed in a globally technical marketplace, and soon we will see the U.S. falling significantly behind innovative and technologically well-adapted countries across the globe.
I believe we should largely decentralize education and put it in the hands of well placed, well-paid, effective educators in a more locally regulated fashion (e.g. Finland). I also stress the importance of removing our dependence on standardized testing to format our curriculum, which creates a teaching method that 'teaches to the test' and eliminates the more logical 'thoughtful teaching' methods that gears more towards intuitive, resourceful thinking for the students.
Are we heading in the wrong direction with our reforms?
Jul 22 2013: Absolutely. Arne Duncan has made no bones about it .... he wants to socialize education completely under government control ... he has stated that the fed should write all texts, devise all syllabus, write and grade all tests, which would also include teachers guides with daily assignments. Based on the current fed push to teach only CORE and STEM to the exclusion of any arts, trades, or crafts we are destined to repeat a "Dark Age".
I repeat that the concern is Command and Control at the federal level and remove the states from the equation. This is a direct result of big government, Keynesian economics, and a direct route to socialism / communism.
The promise of transparency, open government, accountability, etc ... has either been forgotten or ignored. We are more divided politically, racially and in all other ways than I have ever seen in my 70 years.
The issue here is not education .... it is politics. As long as we are told it is about education the march to ultimate federal power will continue while we are looking at the classroom. The war will be over without our knowledge or a shot fired (figuratively).
Sorry about the soap box. Thank you for your reply. I wish you well. Bob.Jul 22 2013: The tide fifteen or twenty years ago was moving toward decentralization, with districts talking about building-based decision-making with the principal like a CEO, organizing his building with teachers to meet the needs of students.
To the degree that building capacities allowed it, families could choose among schools, as things like test scores and program descriptions were provided in a centralized location online so families could compare and choose. Places at over-subscribed schools would be assigned by lottery, with some factors possibly weighing in ahead of lottery, like sibling preference..
What has happened since? A few things. With recession and tighter budgets, districts have sometimes narrowed the range of choice to reduce the costs of school bus services to take kids across town, encouraging kids to attend their neighborhood schools. Further moving the system in this direction are the families who want their kids to walk to the neighborhood school but whose kids could not go there because students who lived farther away had chosen the school and the school was at capacity. You can't just expand and contract schools willy-nilly.
Another quite different factor was that giving teachers the freedom to serve their students as they thought best meant that some classrooms, the ones with better teachers, for example, would have quite different outcomes for students than those with weaker teachers. To many district decision-makers, the most important goal is for all students to have the SAME outcomes rather than for some to do much better than others.
This goal is perhaps the central factor leading to standardization of curriculum and centralized enforcement of that. What used to be called "differentiated instruction," which is to say choosing pedagogies tailored to the best pace and style of learning of individual students, is out of vogue in practice, though I doubt school administrations would necessarily admit to this.
Look up Eric Hanushek's work.Jul 22 2013: I think your points are well taken. And most of the current reforms will only make matters worse. To put in in the simplest terms, Every child is an unique individual, Every young adult has a need for common knowledge and that knowledge that will give him/her the ability to excel in what ever their endeavors .Public schools here were founded on the basis that new citizens of the USA need a knowledge of their new government and a few related skills that would come in handy. Our system evolved to local schools that would conceivably has students meet the local needs for skills.... Young people in Nebraska learned about cattle ranching, those in Boston learned about fishing.. The system seem to work well for awhile, where did it go wrong?Jul 20 2013: I was on a school board for a year, and because of my career choice and multiple relocations, my children attended over a dozen different public schools, a number of which were considered excellent. I was also an adult instructor and managed an adult education and training program for 7 years. So, I had to "deal" with young adults who all had graduated high school and that was one of the more challenging jobs I held.
So, what did I learn...
Schools waste money. On page too many of the school budget, I saw No 2 pencils purchased at $2.50 per dozen from a school supply company when a local store were selling at $0.67 per dozen. I asked why. It seems the school supply company deliverers. ????
Too many young high school graduates coming into the adult training program could not read and comprehend our text instructions that were crafted 8th grade level English. ?????
I don't blame teachers, there are some great, some bad, most are good at their jobs. Students are just what they are, all different: socially, culturally, ethically, intellectually, physically, and every other way you can describe.
It's about management. They hired the teachers, set the curriculum (with way to much governmental input) and prescribe how relevant information can be fed into those little minds that can be come functional knowledge.
It shouldn't be that hard unless the managers get to involved in empire building, building alliances with other entities whose basic motivations are money and power..
Then educating children is really hard....
PS. I got the "you are not an educator look" when I was on the school board, but I know BS when I step in it without a PhD in Education.
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Aug 1 2013: Deepak Behl you are selling a doomsday-cult here. Brahma Kumaris, is an Indian spiritualist cult, which is passing itself off as a university; the so called "Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University" (BKWSU). Please note the BKWSU is not officially recognised as a university nor qualified to call itself one in any country and is just a cover name.The Brahma Kumarism are a strictly "End of the World" religion based on mediumistic teachings from a "spirit entity" adherents believe is the God of all religions speaking to humanity exclusively through their psychic mediums only. They do not follow or promote Hinduism, nor do they teach "ancient" Raja Yoga as they claim. Instead they use the language of such traditions, the New Age and personal growth movements with hidden meanings in order to to attract and acquire new adherents and are noted for the secrecy which they hide their true teachings and historical revision from newcomers in order to gradually encult them. Increasingly, they are also using the appearance of coaches and therapists, and a living value program for schools. It is attempting to use false representation in order to gain influence in society. Central to Brahma Kumari beliefs is that 7,000,000,000 plus human beings must die during an imminent and desirable 'End of the World' which they called "Destruction" and will inspire, in order that 900,000 of their faithful followers will inherit a heaven on earth around 2036. They encourage adherents to believe that a high status can be achieved after it by donating money, property, free labor and unquestioning mental submission to their leadership, who will rule the world as Emperors and Empresses. Whilst making numerous failed predictions of the End of the World going back to WWII, 1950, 1976, mid-1980s, the religion has continued to amass great wealth. These failures have been hidden from newcomers and re-written whilst the organization increasingly seeks funding. Please sell your religion elsewhere.Jul 20 2013: You have the union of the bureaucracy (politicians, admin, local board of ed, teachers), unions, and industry supplying the educational system who have a vested interest in keeping the status quo. If you get someone doing some reform, the trio will get together to stop it by voting out the people who are supporting the change and voting in people that will pull money and fire the people making the changes.
In most cases, they do not let people in that would support change in the 1st place.Jul 20 2013: First of all you must ask the question, does it matter what so-called maths and science scores other countries achieve? Why does it matter? Is it important to learn in the way that these test scores expect and demand? Is this sort of achievement what science and maths is really all about or are these kind of tests what is asked for in order for the students to satisfy an employer rather than the essence of maths and science?
This question also asks an additional question: when young children want to learn, they are full of passion for it, then what happens in high school? After recovering from the hormones of puberty and the socialisation process you get "back on track" by following the expected route. learning your subjects and being taught in that dead way. Compare this to a Montessori or Steiner school which is a rich environment in comparison to the other ways of teaching that most students encounter.Jul 19 2013: Your problem isn't limited to a complex interconnected legislation, bureaucracy, politics, unions and economics (if you can call such a broad field of issues limited...). Its also cultural.
A successful educational system needs strong cultural support and tradition. Unfortunately, a tradition can be even harder to set up than a physical infrastructure.
While I haven't been to the US in some years, my own country has the same problem with its educational system on the grade school level (the academies at least, are fine thankfully, largely due to different cultural norms).
You can see it in the culture--most people see and view teaching schools as an undesirable position. Teachers aren't given much respect, and the pay reflects it. As a reason, quality people stay away from teaching, perpetuating the stereotype.
Once you start hearing the expression "those who can't, teach", you know you've got a problem, especially with mathematics and hard science, where those truly proficient will usually prefer to find other sources of employment. (less of a problem with history or literature, were you're usually stuck teaching anyway).
The problem doesn't end with the teachers though. If the children aren't pressured to study properly by the society around them, sometimes even the best teachers in the world won't help. In the US for example, the people being idolized aren't doctors, engineers or scientists. They're reality TV stars, celebrities, and billionaires. This is the natural result of communications technology + lowest common denominator I know, but its harmful non the less.
So to sum things up, the problem is deeply rooted in the culture as well as the infrastructure and the politics around it.
Anyone trying to fix the problem truly has their work cut out for them. I'm not saying its not worth doing, on the contrary. I can only guarantee one thing, and that it will be a long, grueling process.
Jul 19 2013: Nadav,
Thank you for the reflection. Do you have any ideas on how to change this problem?
Jul 20 2013: Honestly, not in all but the most general sense.
I'm not an educator myself (a lot due to the reasons I've mentioned above actually), and diagnosing the problem is easier then solving it. Especially when any cultural change has to ironically enough, come from the very educational system you need it to fix.
You can build a ship in three years, but building a tradition takes three hundred...
It doesn't help that this being a deep, and very complex issue, its hard to get specifics into an election campaign.Jul 19 2013: I think the main problem is that we cannot agree which of the alternatives to choose from or start to agree upon to implement...
Jul 19 2013: Christophe,
I agree!
The big problem is that the solution is going to involve a complex web of programs, funding, legislation, restructuring and training. There is not solution that includes a one step plan, and each individual piece of the process could be debated. We need to tackle this problem first, to get SOMETHING started so that we can begin this long process. I wonder if anyone has any good recommendations??Jul 19 2013: "Political consensus to educate all children together in a common school system" seems to be where Finland started. If we all could agree on that it may be possible to start the movement! What are your thoughts?
Jul 20 2013: I don't know.
As children have different interests and capacities and ways of learning... maybe we need to take that into account, although a kid's interest is strongly dependent on the interests of parents and later peers...
We organised a TEDx Salon around education, and there were a lot of teachers there. I think that they want to have some extra space to try things out.
Some complained that administration and testing got too much of them, as the rules require a lot of paperwork when it comes to inspection. I suggested leaving the paperwork out and film the classroom instead. As such, the inspection can see how effective they teach and they didn't have to fill out the paperwork. No that they really liked to be filmed, or that our laws allow for it, but I can't imagine that there are no solutions to decrease the overhead time of a teacher while not needing extra investments.
Giving a broader freedom of teaching and rewarding the good ones (now they all get the same wage) might be a step in the right direction.
And a constant evaluation of the content we wish to learn... maybe we need to ask "what would I want my children to learn or know?"
As for movements: they also exist already. Maybe trying to connect the different movements and initiatives together to generate strength in number might be a good next step.
Jul 20 2013: I appreciate your participation as someone who has gotten into this at some depth, including looking at what is really happening to improve education on the ground. Indeed there is no scarcity of movements in action in this terrain! There are huge numbers of people, both within schools and involved in auxiliary services and associated programs, working tirelessly to try to provide all children with a quality education focused on critical thinking and the tools of independent learning.
It is not static.Jul 19 2013: Daniel,
I have been beating this drum for years. The failing our our general public school systems is appalling. I lay the problem to school management and intervention by the federal government using tax funds to sway educational policy. I look at the historical education policies. Founding fathers encouraged free public education to insure the people had the where with all to sustain the new constitutional republic they founded. And yes, progressive policies of the early 1900s became the new gospel of academia and found it's way into public education. What has been lost is most young high school graduates have no idea how they are governed and sadly don't seem to care.
I also hold that we need to help young people find their place in society. Not every young adult needs to to to advance education programs.... the country is up to it's armpits in lawyers and you have a hard time to find a plumber.
So, we have not teachers, but facilitators giving out workbooks on the state exams to insure the funding stream stays solvent. We have a federal department of education with a national policy that all children are created equal, with the average IQ, the average size and weight, the average nutritional requirements, are the average goal of going to the average college as all children have equal rights to be average. With all the mismanagement of local schools and the mindset of federal bureaucrats, I am surprised that we are doing as well as we are.
Jul 19 2013: I would say that we are doing as well as we are because of the desire of the students to learn. I believe that there IS a desire to learn, but we are not tapping into it correctly. It's the ability to tap into that desire that the very best teachers possess. Studying this process and focusing it is ultimately important. Bill Gates is doing much to improve our understanding of what it takes to be a great educator. I'm getting off topic here.
I agree that the standardized testing is failing our school system in many ways, and I believe that it would help our schools if we redesigned this system or eliminated it altogether. Finland has a great, and successful method of standardized testing that I think we should emulate here.
What do you propose?
Jul 19 2013: It is not about testing. Its about management.
So, how to fix it. Any public school system above the individual schools and principals should be removed and a new minimal management group be installed. The new managers would be responsible for limited logistics and personnel support. Security, transportation,food service and non instruction services would be contracted out or eliminated. Principals would be responsible for their schools and the teachers. Teachers would establish the specific teaching syllabus from a very general guide line of curriculum.
Or the alternative.... any idea better then what is now happening...
Jul 19 2013: This is a great idea Mike! Is there a platform already written out to implement something like this? What's the first step?Jul 20 2013: There is nothing new in my proposal, it is basically how Finland does it.Jul 19 2013: here is my take. because education is a public issue. if an issue is public, a solution has to be nation wide. to reform education, you need the majority of politicians agree on it, and most teachers agree on it, and most parents agree on it.
for politicians to agree on it, the reform must be popular. otherwise they would lose votes.
for parents to agree on it, they would have to watch less oprah and reality shows, and educate themselves on the issue.
for teachers to agree on it, they would have to be willing to take the extra effort of learning stuff and changing stuff.
what is the chance that all these will come together at any point in time? let me assert that it is nil.
the solution is of course to make education private. in that case, you don't have a nation wide agreement. all you need is 30 parents and 5 teachers to make a decision. if they are successful, others will follow them.
Jul 19 2013: So, then, do we eliminate public education altogether? Do we give parents vouchers for their children to attend private schools?
Is there a proposal out there already to take action in a way that you agree with? Do you have your own ideas about how this could be accomplished?
Jul 19 2013: voucher is one idea. i'm a little bit more extreme, and i suggest that we don't need the government in education at all, in any way. there should be no public schools at all, and people can buy the education to their children on the market. there could be funds and there could be free schools maintained by churches, corporations or other organizations.
Jul 19 2013: Do you believe that this solution would provide for every child to receive an education with the opportunity to become economically independent? My problem with your proposition is that only the rich parents would have the capability to provide their children with a great education. How do you solve the issue of equal opportunity?Jul 19 2013: no. just like today's system does not provide that. today, millions are failing every year, they dropped out of school, or attending but not learning anything useful.
food is distributed in similar manner. yet, nobody complains that rich people get better food. this is how things are. there is no mass starvation, so there is no reason to take over the food market, and invade liberty in such a violent way. we accept the fact that people have different opportunities. the best way to deal with it is to let them work on it.
the same principle should apply to education. the fact that some people are poor, and struggling is not enough reason to "publicize" education. if you care about the poor, provide them free education, and leave others alone.Jul 19 2013: Right, lets have more Yale's and Harvard's and start even earlier at private kindergarten, private preschools and private elementary schools so that we can ensure that those who can afford those private school fees, stay undisturbed as long as possible from those who can't, such as the mob, the poor, the stupid ... :o) It'll be soon enough to face that crowd anyway, the moment you haven't found a way around but to hire them, being on the side of 'job creators' ...
Who cares for talent as long as your wallet is big enough?
This would be the end of education, not its beginning!
Jul 19 2013: you are saying that a major percentage of the population could not afford schooling?
Jul 19 2013: What do you think?Jul 19 2013: i think that you don't say things because you actually believe in them. you are just having fun. that is what i think.
Jul 19 2013: Then, you are mistaken. But I see that there is a chance, that my humor could be misunderstood at times. In my longer comment above, the humor used was irony to contradict the sadness about what it contains.
So let me ask you again, do you think I was 'saying that a major percentage of the population could not afford schooling' or not?Jul 19 2013: yes i think. because today, the school system does not serve a significant portion of the population, and they happen to be the poor ones. so unless you expect a larger portion getting no or unsatisfactory education in a free system, your comment does not make sense.
Jul 19 2013: You are partly right with your assumption, because, taking Europe for example, the school system does serve a significant portion of the population AND is free of charge, yet despite its debatable quality, it is not 'educating' the people for their own good, talents and interests, but for the purpose to 'function' within, lets call it, 'the system'.
So when the purpose of education is not focused on a very individual, it changes into 'branding', into producing 'tools', aka 'workers', which we produce in the given, conveyer belt like 'school industry' today.
From your former comments I remember you as a 'Neo Liberal' minded person, who blames, in a reflex and right after Canada, the government even when the weather turns bad. So by pretending to have read all the same smart books about economy you appear to have consumed, I figured, that it was logically from this perspective to get the education system privatized. All in all not that difficult, so even I was able to manage that.
But sometimes reality dares to deviate from beautifully constructed 'business models' and it does not help to insist on the lines written. So taken the fact, that more and more families of the so called 'middle class' are struggling already to earn enough to get through a month, paying additional fees for private schools for their children, didn't appear a good solution to me.
By doing a bit of math and some averaging in annual income of one teacher, just one, it would cost 130 Euro per month for a family for one child out of a class of 30 students.
So for 5 teachers, which would count for most STEM + language + one art, it adds up to 650 Euro/month for just one child and this just for the teachers, without any cost of any infrastructure, materials, books, etc.
So for an average middle class German family with two kids this 1300 + Euro/month is simply not affordable ... and 30 students in one class is doing the rest to education anyway...
So whats your calculation?Jul 19 2013: here is my calculation. in hungary, a teacher gets approximately the average wage. a teacher instructs 30 children at a time. so if we assume 8 hours school time (which is more than we have today), 1/30 of an average salary would be the monthly fee for a child. that is easily affordable for the absolute majority, only the poorest would have any problems. this does not mean, of course, that they would have no schooling. they would have to look for even cheaper alternatives. finally, the ones that can not afford any education whatsoever, are the ones that has problem with food or heating, that live practically outside of society.
this effect is compounded by the fact that the government spends (wastes) a whole lot more on education. we have large bureaucratic systems, centrally decided reorganizations. so if we get rid all of this, reduce taxes by the same amount, suddenly a lot more parents can afford schooling for their children without help. remember, the government does not create, just redistributes.
on the other hand, what we have today is a school system that is literally just a storage facility for about 5-10% of the population. they benefit of it in no way at all. another large part gets enough knowledge to be a useful droid in a factory or office. they spend 12 years of their lives to get to that level. this could be achieved in much less time, or with the same effort much more could be achieved.
as i see it, almost everyone would win, a few people would remain where they are, and i'm not even sure anyone would lose, but if yes, negligible numbers. i don't see rational reasons on the side of public education.
let me add that it was never a goal to be useful or beneficial. public education is a control mechanism. the coward and ignorant majority simply wants the misconceptions they grew up with not to be challenged. they just don't want new things.
Jul 19 2013: Here are the official numbers:
Average annual gross salaries of full time fully qualified teachers in public schools in Euro (before tax):
Pre-primary: 7.839 / no data
Primary: 8.789 / 46.819*
Lower secondary: 8.789 / 52.137*
Upper secondary: 10.106 / 57.669*
* average of min/max salary
Example calculation for one Upper secondary teacher:
Hungary/ Germany
Upper secondary: 10.106 / 57.669* per year
842 / 4.805 per month
For 5 teacher: 4.210 / 24.028 per month (no infrastructure)
Divided by 30
families: 140 / 800 per month per family
2 children: 280 / 1.600 per month per family with 2 kids
Average family
income: 872/ 3.600 per month / before tax
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
private school cost
percentage: 32% / 44% of family income per month
Max. income tax
rate **: 16% / 45%
Average Gross annual Earnings in the business economy (full-time employees) 2011 in Euros:
Hungary / Germany
10.467* / 43.300*
* before tax
So you are saying, that with reduced taxation we go better in your system?
How do you explain then, that only the cost of the teachers would already be higher per month per families with two kids, than the given MAXIMUM income tax-rate in both our countries, of which we both know they do not apply to middle class families with kids?
Run the numbers yourself to get to know what nonsense you are proposing here!Jul 19 2013: what is your profession? let me guess that it does not involve math. you don't multiply with the number of teachers, unless you multiply the number of children too. i deliberately left this out, because it changes nothing, only makes things more convoluted.
Jul 19 2013: I don't know about Hungary, but in Germany the gross salaries only reflect a fraction of the true cost of an employee, and we are not running our schools without buildings, maintenance, school dinner, kitchen personnel, health insurance, pension programs, etc., etc.
Do a better estimation on how cheap your idea is going to be if mine isn't precise enough for your likings, but you won't find anything in your favour.Jul 19 2013: that is the statist thinking. we want a huge building with gym, computer room, etc. but it is not necessary, it is just good to have. poor people buy cheap clothing, cheap car, and cheap education. then can gather in the living room of a volunteering parent. or the church. we are pretending that we can guarantee such high class social services to everyone, but in fact what we are doing is two things: we take liberties away, and we stop progress. that is not the future. that is the present.
your calculation was wrong. my calculation was simplified, but correct.
Jul 19 2013: My calculation was your simplified calculation filled with valid numbers. But it doesn't matter.
'Poor people buy cheap clothing, cheap car, and cheap education... etc, etc, etc...'
You got to be kidding me! Are you getting payed for such statements? Are you working for some privately financed PR agency, a Goldman Sachs subsidiary maybe? That is so 'predatory capitalism' like I have never ever heard anybody speak of before.
You got to change your sort of literature, as it seems you are loosing all points of humanity in case you ever owned them... :o)
Liberty without equality is leading no where but into a gloomy inhumane future. If this is progress to you, spare me your concept of stagnation ... :o)
But as your humor is easy to miss too, I take your last comment as such ...Jul 19 2013: some real arguments? no? never mind. you are here to goof around anyway.
Jul 19 2013: I truly wish of what you just said was true ...
Lejan .
Jul 19 2013: ... but it isn't ...
- +1
And what makes you think that you are the only one capable of making points in 'funny analogies'?
see : http://www.ted.com/conversations/19561/a_car_that_runs_on_a_battery_t.html
Or did I miss a memo here?