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The Clinton Experience
How can you make the story of Bill Clinton and his presidency read like anything other than a rollicking escapade? Easy: Turn it into a PBS documentary. Clinton, which debuts tonight, is a two-part, nearly four-hour installment of the American Experience series that at first seems doomed to flatten the story of the 42nd president—a man of endless appetites and unquenchable ambition who rose from a troubled home in small-town Arkansas to become one of the most talented and disappointing political figures we've known. The polite, muted quality of the PBS documentary form makes a strange fit for its penis-brained, mercurial, and brilliant subject—the string music, the hushed narration of Campbell Scott, the all-too-steady chronological march.
In the end, though, the form redeems itself, at least partly. Clinton is well worth watching. Its stately predictability gives us a chance to look back at the mad Clinton years, take a breath, and make some small sense of its craziness. There is, after all, some virtue to the balance the documentary aims for.
Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, the people you most want to hear from—Hillary, Chelsea, Monica, Bob Dole, Tipper, Newt, Gennifer, Paula, Bill himself—are absent from the proceedings. Still, the range of voices we do get—the likes of Ken Starr, Dick Morris, Dee Dee Myers, Leon Panetta, Trent Lott, Gail Sheeny, Harold Ickes, Mark Penn, Sidney Blumenthal, Lucianne Goldberg, and a fair number of old Arkansas cronies—is adequate, and sometimes revealing. "How many second chances does a person deserve?" Myers, who served as his press secretary, asks. "Clinton's view is, as many second chances as a person is willing to try to take."
We relive the "joy and buoyancy," as David Gergen puts it, that accompanied his election in 1992—the heady sense of a new generation grasping the reins of power from the old-guard Republicans. Then we relive the low comedy that ensued when a small-state governor with no foreign-policy vision installed campaign pals in key positions and proceeded to blunder and compromise and Hillarycare his way through a largely wasted first two years. Robert Reich, the Prospect's co-founder and Clinton's labor secretary, puts it best: "It became very apparent very soon that Bill Clinton as president was not going to be an LBJ. … LBJ knew how to use power. Bill Clinton knew much of that, but he also wanted to be liked."
Clinton's time in office is now mostly remembered as the last time the country had it good—peace and prosperity, with nothing more dire than an Oval Office sex scandal. But this documentary reminds us, in case we'd forgotten, of how tragically the promise of Clinton's presidency was dashed—first because of the unpreparedness of the president and his staff (and his wife), then because of his desperate need to win re-election in 1996, and finally because of the Lewinsky affair. "What a squandering of talent and promise and possibility," says Ickes, his deputy chief of staff. Nothing could sum it up better.
But it wasn't just callowness or Lewinsky or both Clintons' bungling of the Whitewater flap that fatally undercut him. The phrase "career politician" has never fit a human being so well. Clinton returned to Arkansas from Yale Law for one reason: to run for Congress and begin his rise to the White House. Hillary, at least in this telling, followed him there both because she loved him and because she shared that lofty goal. Winning political office was—aside from sexual gratification—the driving force of Clinton's life, and it tended to take precedence over what he could accomplish after he'd won.
The seeds of Clinton's doubleness were sewn early. The deep biography in Clinton, while unsatisfyingly brief, will be most intriguing for those too young to have been steeped in the story. Saddled with squabbling parents, his step-father a wife-beating alcoholic, Bill created a separate life for himself, coming across to the world as a confident, buoyant kid with limitless potential. As his friend Joe Purvis says, "The only way you can really deal with it is blocking it off." There are other ways, of course. But that was the course that Clinton took. And he never lost his ability to block out unsavory realities.
In this documentary's no doubt oversimplified formulation, Clinton learned to live two lives. It was his salvation and his doom. It's what made him the "comeback kid," more times than anybody could count. It's what gave him the sense of invincibility that allowed him to continue living one life in public and one in private—and led him into the arms of Monica Lewinsky, then back out of the resulting scandal into the embrace of the American public.
While it politely leaves the details to our sordid imaginations, the documentary doesn't stint on Clinton's character flaws, either political or personal. The extent of his womanizing is made clear by Paul Fray, who managed his failed first campaign for Congress, who recalls: "I mean, you got to understand that at one time, there was at least 25 women per day coming around trying to find him. Lord, it was bad—bad, bad, bad, bad." The threat of exposure kept him from running for president in 1988. But four years later, he couldn't help himself.
L'Affaire Lewinsky frames the documentary—it opens with Clinton's Rose Garden apology—and takes up much of Part II. Here, the balance tips in Clinton's favor, as Ken Starr (who is interviewed) and the congressional Republicans are presented as the truly lurid characters, and Clinton as a flawed man who just couldn't help himself. The Clintonian excuses—he was lonely in the White House during the government shutdown, with only interns around, when the affair began; he'd been unnaturally squelching his sexual urges for three years as president—are offered up as basically fact. The utter waste of nearly his entire second term, while duly noted, takes a back seat to the "get the president" overreach of Starr and the hypocritical Republicans. They were wrong, of course, but so was he—and you don't have to be a moralist to still burn with anger over the way he pissed away his presidency.
What if Clinton had come out and admitted the affair before it consumed his second term? Morris, to whom Clinton confessed that he had indeed "had sex with that woman," says he advised him—as always, on the basis of polling—that he would be forgiven for confessing it, but probably not for lying about it. Clinton, with his lifelong pattern of hiding dirty laundry from the world, couldn't come clean until he was cornered into doing so. In this telling, there's a horrible sense of inevitability to the whole affair: He'd gotten away with selling himself as a perfectly happy kid in a troubled family; he'd gotten away with his dalliances in Arkansas; he'd wriggled out of Gennifer Flowers's accusations in 1992 and become president. Why couldn't he overcome this, too?
He did, in a sense. But, as Meyers says, "It undercut his ability to do anything besides surviving for two years."
The most riveting and revealing moments of this documentary come from footage of Clinton's grand-jury testimony, as he artfully dodges and dissembles and filibusters—"it depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is," he says with the self-satisfied grin of a clever law student—followed by that evening's address to the nation, when he finally coughed up the truth that he'd had an affair with an intern. Before his address begins, he looks down morosely, fixes his hair, gazes forlornly toward the ceiling and looks, more than anything, like a squirming child trapped in a lie—it is, in many ways, the story of his life. So is what happens next: As the producer says it's 45 seconds before they go live, Clinton straightens up, nods, takes a deep breath and begins to gaze steadily and sincerely into the camera's eye, ready to charmingly extricate himself from another mess he's made.
It's inevitable that viewers will find many story lines missing. The Clinton years are still too fresh for the broad sweep of this kind of documentary to fully satisfy. Among other things, the unfortunate—and lasting—influence of Clinton's "New Democrat" philosophy, which helped the party recapture the White House but left it shorn of its identity as the "people's party," gets lost in the shuffle. Progressives are mostly glimpsed here in passing, as sign-carrying protesters against welfare reform and the 1995 federal government shutdown. There is precious little evidence of the opposition to Clinton's "Lite Republican" steering of the Democratic machine closer to the embrace of Wall Street and away from the interests of working people. (We do, however, see him shooing away the criticism during the 1992 campaign: "People say I'm not a real Democrat, but I'm against brain-dead politics in both parties.")
The Lewinsky scandal will always be part of the story of this president, but its impact on the country was far less consequential than the legacy his politics left.
Still, even in broad strokes, it's a powerful story. What enabled a poor boy from Arkansas to become president of the United States—and what made him such a compelling and powerful political force—is also what prevented him from being a consequential president. A man who has always been able to overcome anything and everything and emerge unscathed is also a man who is likely to repeatedly tempt fate—a man who, as the narrator says, will almost surely leave behind "a curious sense of unfulfilled promise."
Mon, 2012-02-20 11:24
Ultimately you have to ask, what got accomplished? The incumbent from one party leads the country in one direction while the incumbent from the other party, thanks to his accomplishments, leads it back. The problem with Clinton is, it's hard to identify anything he accomplished that wouldn't have been done by a moderate Republican. The pendulum, so to speak, didn't swing back -- it just kind of got stuck.
In a sense, Obama with Obamacare has already achieved far more than Clinton ever did.
Mon, 2012-02-20 20:04
Well... Yes, and no. I agree that the Clinton presidency wasn't all that it could have been, but I think we need to question the idea that Clinton accomplished little or nothing, not least because that's the right-wing's story about his presidency. Since I find many people on liberal blogs and sites arguing to the contrary, I compiled this list:
Also, I'm not sure how the Clintons "bungled" Whitewater; they were, as the author surely knows, exonerated of wrongdoing in the end (see The Hunting of the President by Joe Conason and Gene Lyons for more detail), and were ultimately the victims in the whole mess.
I'll try to watch the documentary and judge it on its own merits.
Tue, 2012-02-21 17:55
Bill the felon, did better than the average non-felon President. NAFTA, welfare reform, a balanced budget, and he even managed to indulge our foolish opinions at the risk of our nation's interests in the Balkans, while surprisingly standing tall against Sadam Hussein.
If he had any real self-confidence in himself, particularly as a male but also as a leader, he might have been at least a good if not a great President. Yet he was convicted in the court of public opinion of the high crime of bringing ALL institutions and leadsers in America into terminal disrepute. I will never forgive him for that.
Tue, 2012-02-21 19:10
Bill and Hillary Clinton both supported Bush The Younger's illegal war on Iraq. The number of Israeli settlers on the West Bank doubled during Clinton's 8 years of "peace process." The US debt went up every year Clinton was in office so how exactly did he balance the budget? Is that more about projections of the future like Paul Ryan claims his budget would result in a balanced budget like 30 years from now if future Congresses and future Presidents do everything he says.
I've always wondered what exactly the "Welfare Reform" was. I suspect it was more of a restructuring or artful wording. Honest question: are there any people who have been receiving means-tested public assistance continuously for the last 20 years?
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(If there's one thing we know about comment trolls, it's that they're lazy)


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A powerhouse female scientist just launched a company at TechCrunch Disrupt, the big tech conference in New York that showcases hot new startups. I'm told she's the first female founder to startup at this event, but I haven't confirmed that.
Yesterday the Kauffman Foundation co-hosted the Southwest Energy Summit with both ASU (host location) and the leadership team of ARPA E. We had wonderful participation from industry leaders, experienced energy VC's and university academics...
All it takes for a startup community to take root and thrive are the right seeds and soil. I recently saw this first hand in a seemingly off-the-beaten-path city – Telluride, Colo.
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The 31st of July the Henry Ford Museum supported by sponsors like the Kauffman Foundation, Ford Motors Co and New Economy Initiative launched the first of what we hope is an annual Maker Faire event in Detroit. Twenty-five thousand people showed up to check out the makers who came out of their garages to share their wares at the Henry Ford Museum grounds. So why is this so special?
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Source: Salvation Army,
National Headquarters
Media Relations
email@example.com ationarmy.org
(703) 400-3247
Xenophon Strategies
Erica Lawton
(202) 289-4001
Local Contact: Salvation Army, Milwaukee County
Faithe Colas, Community Relations Director
email@example.com. org
Alexandria, Virginia (April 18, 2013) – The Salvation Army is responding after a large explosion at a fertilizer plant devastated the small city of West, TX, just before 8:00 PM (CDT) Wednesday evening. The Salvation Army quickly mobilized support teams and by midnight had deployed five Emergency Disaster Canteens (mobile kitchens) to the area.
The Salvation Army is providing refreshment and emotional and spiritual care to survivors and first responders at several locations in and around West. Disaster Canteens (mobile kitchens) from Waco, Corsicana, Waxahachie, Fort Worth and Williamson County are all serving at the scene. Major Dan Ford, Commanding Officer of the Waco Salvation Army, is the Incident Commander coordinating The Salvation Army response with city and state emergency personnel.
The temperature has dropped dramatically overnight with heavy rain moving into the area. The Salvation Army has 50 cases of rain suits, jackets and blankets to distribute. This morning, The Salvation Army is preparing to serve breakfast to 500 people and as the situation develops will remain ready to serve as long as needed.
The massive blast, which measured 2.1 on the Richter scale, was felt as far as 80 miles away in Dallas. It is estimated that between 50 to 75 homes have been damaged or destroyed, including a 50-unit apartment complex. More than 170 people have been hospitalized with multiple fatalities at the scene.
How to Help
The most effective way to support The Salvation Army response in West, TX, is by making a financial contribution:
For continued updates and more information from The Salvation Army, please visit www.SalvationArmyUSA.org, Blog.SalvationArmyUSA.org, Twitter and Facebook.
About The Salvation Army
The Salvation Army, an evangelical part of the universal Christian church established in London in 1865, has been supporting those in need in His name without discrimination for more than 130 years in the United States. Nearly 30 million Americans receive assistance from The Salvation Army each year through the broadest array of social services that range from providing food for the hungry, relief for disaster victims, assistance for the disabled, outreach to the elderly and ill, clothing and shelter to the homeless and opportunities for underprivileged children. 82 cents of every dollar The Salvation Army spends is used to support those services in 5,000 communities nationwide. For more information, go to www.salvationarmyusa.org.


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Remember this lovely little stack from my new favorite
crap craft store? I sewed like a maniac and now its a quilt for my sweet sister in law's wedding gift. It was between making her a quilt or buying floor mats for her car ( n.o.t. my idea). Needless to say the quilt won.
The quilt measures about 67" by 80", perfect size for a 2 person couch quilt, or draped over the end of a bed. Here's my measurements if you want to make your own.
For the inner border you'll need:
1- 4.5" square
2- 2.5" by 4.5" strips
2- 2.5" by 8.5" strips
Sew short sides on first, then top and bottom pieces. If you are not using 1/4" foot (like I wasn't) you will get some hangover in your strips that you'll have to trim. The seam allowance on a regular foot is more like 5/16" or 6/16" in my case, so slightly larger than 1/4". So if your strips seem way too long, especially in the outer border, that is probably why.
For the outer border you'll need:
2- 2.5" by 8.5" strips.
2- 2.5" by 12.5" strips.
Your finished block should measure 12.5". See that little bit of hangover on the top and bottom of my block? That's because I didn't use my 1/4" foot, so my finished block was more like 12". Which isn't a big deal unless your using a (real) pattern or you're concerned about the final size.
Now square up your blocks. I made 30 blocks, I used about 4 yards of fabric for my blocks. The sashing strips were 1.5" cut, so 1" finished. The white border strips were 2" cut. When your using thin stashing strips like this its important to pin and line up your blocks as you sew your rows together. If not you can really tell when your blocks don't line up perfectly. And unpicking stitches is not that much fun….as I'm sure we all know very well.
By the way Ben did fabulous on our flight to Denver on Monday. The travel fairies must like me because we sat by a Nun. You can bet she was prayin' like a mad woman when she saw who was sitting next to her. And luckily all went smoothly and I only had a few glares in my direction, so we're improving. :) Have a great weekend!


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Milwaukee, WI (SportsNetwork.com) - The Milwaukee Bucks officially named Jason Kidd head coach on Tuesday.
The Bucks acquired Kidd on Monday from his former employer, the Brooklyn Nets, in exchange for two second-round picks in the 2015 and 2019 NBA Drafts.
Terms of his deal with the Bucks were not released, but the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel is reporting, according to a team source, that the deal is for three years and worth between $12 - $15 million.
He was entering the second year of a four-year, $10.5 million deal with the Nets and tensions between Kidd and Nets general manager Billy King escalated when Kidd recently approached ownership asking for more say in personnel decisions.
Kidd replaces Larry Drew, who was fired on Monday. Drew compiled a 15-67 record last season, his fourth as head coach in the NBA. His first three were spent with the Atlanta Hawks.
"When you list the characteristics that make a successful head coach, you would include leadership, communication and a competitive drive," said Bucks general manager John Hammond. "Jason used all of those traits to become a 10- time All-Star player in the NBA, and has now translated his on-court success to the bench. We welcome him to the Bucks organization and look forward to building a Championship-caliber team with him as our head coach."
Kidd, 41, compiled a 44-38 record with Brooklyn last season, his first as a head coach at any level, and was named Eastern Conference coach of the month twice.
The Nets earned the sixth seed in the Eastern Conference Playoffs and upset the three-seed Toronto Raptors in seven games in the first round before falling to the Miami Heat in the second round.
"Jason is a determined leader, a tough-minded competitor and a great teammate," said Bucks owners Wesley Edens and Marc Lasry. "We believe his focus, vision and intensity will help him work alongside John and David (Morway) to rebuild the Milwaukee Bucks as we aspire to achieve excellence over the next several years. We are excited that Jason will call Milwaukee his new home."
Kidd enjoyed an exceptional 19-year NBA playing career, which included 10 All- Star Game appearances and an NBA Championship in 2011 as a member of the Dallas Mavericks. He was named to the All-NBA First Team five times, All-NBA Second Team once, to the NBA's All-Defensive First Team four times and All- Defensive Second Team five times. Kidd also won gold medals with Team USA in the 2000 Olympics in Sydney and the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.
When Kidd retired in 2013, he ranked second all-time in NBA assists and steals behind John Stockton. His 107 triple-doubles are third all-time behind Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson. He also ranks third on the League's all-time lists in minutes and 3-point field goals, sixth in games played, first among guards in rebounds and 71st in points scored.
The second overall pick of the Dallas Mavericks in the 1994 NBA Draft, Kidd shared Co-Rookie of the Year honors with Grant Hill. He played in 1,391 regular season games with Dallas, Phoenix, New Jersey and New York. His teams qualified for the postseason 17 times, and he played in 158 playoff games, including three trips to the NBA Finals (2002, 2003 with New Jersey; 2011 with Dallas).
The Nets, meanwhile, have yet to name a new head coach.


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Waste & Recycling Companies in Gambia
CNIM - Constructions industrielles de la Méditerranée
based in Paris, FRANCE
CNIM provides turnkey industrial solutions, with a high technological content in three major groups of products and activities: environment and services, mechanical engineering and services and energy and services. CNIM has a wide experience in the design and build of household waste and biomass fired energy recovery facilities and flue gas treatment systems.
based in Te Puke, NEW ZEALAND
Harnessing Biological Forces for Commercial Outcomes through Biodynamic Agricultural Solutions for the 21st Century, our products support soil and plant production naturally. BdMax products are only part of what is needed for successful cropping. Our products focus on enhancing very specific elements of plant growth. Warmth, Light and Moisture are three essentials every ...
AQUA-Zyme Disposal Systems, Inc.
based in Van Vleck, TEXAS (USA)
AQUA-Zyme Disposal System`s patented Dewatering Box is designed to quickly dewater municipal sludge, residential septic and grease trap waste (generally within 24 hours). The injection of polymer causes the solids to coagulate as the liquid waste is introduced into the dewatering box. Clear effluent water drains from the box and can be sent to the waste water treatment ...
Gast International
based in Pretoria, SOUTH AFRICA
Gast provides a complete spectrum of services from design and supply to installation in both the civil and construction industries. The Group's philosophy is based on the principle of single point responsibility. Having successfully completed more than 9150 projects during the last millennium, Gast boast accreditation from United Nations and World Bank, giving credit to ...
ABG Geosynthetics
based in Meltham, UNITED KINGDOM
ABG Geosynthetics offers an extensive range of geocomposite drainage & gas venting layers, geotextiles, geomembranes, geogrids, retaining walls, erosion control products and asphalt reinforcement grids. ABG specialises in providing environmental protection systems involving landfill lining and containment, surface water drainage, gas dispersal, membrane protection, ...
Macpactor - Bernard McCartney Ltd
based in Stockport, UNITED KINGDOM
Macpactor Compaction Technology was established to improve the efficiency of landfill and soil compaction systems – making your machines work harder for you. We're a family run business, where great service comes with reliable delivery. We're now working with companies all over the world, supplying specialist compactor wheels, rollers, blades and teeth/cleates that can be ...
Bundy Environmental Technologies
based in Westerville, OHIO (USA)
Bundy Environmental Technologies is an OEM supplier of proprietary dry scrubbers and other fabric filter based air pollution control systems for combustion applications. The company is committed to perform as a `partner` with the customer - we have common goals of a cost effective, compliant, durable and maintainable system.
RS Maschinenbau Richter & Stadie OEG
based in Frohnsdorf, AUSTRIA
Scrap balers, briquetting presses, scrap shears, total systems, special machines, used machines.
Smave Solutions
based in Atlanta, GEORGIA (US) (USA)
SMAVE SOLUTIONS is a Delaware corporation specialized in the sales, marketing, commercialization, engineering and distribution of environmental vessels for oil spills recuperation conceived for Port Authorities, environment agencies, and government organizations worldwide.These vessels have been used by many governments in the world for efficiently recuperate floating ...
BJD Crushers Ltd
based in Barnsley, UNITED KINGDOM
Solid Waste Crusher/Pulverisers, Hammer Mill, Double Roll Crushers


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Little Ones Storytime
Wednesday, November 6 @ 10:30am
Join Miss Kristine and Miss Alex every Wednesday for quality time with your baby or toddler. Formerly Just For Babies; same program, different name. Enjoy songs, stories, fingerplays, games, and so much more during this lapsit program. Duffy the Storytime Bear is looking forward to meeting you under the parachute. Older siblings are welcome to stick around for Family Storytime right after. Plus, receive a goody bag when you attend for the first time.
This season, our theme is colors. Our color this week is brown so don't forget to wear something brown today.


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Exports - partners: China 33%, US 24%, Japan 5%, UK 4%, Germany, Singapore (1999)
Definition: This entry provides a rank ordering of trading partners starting with the most important; it sometimes includes the percent of total dollar value.
Source: CIA World Factbook - Unless otherwise noted, information in this page is accurate as of April 17, 2001
© 2007 IndexMundi. All rights reserved.


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Okay, so I decided to try the Windows 8.1 Preview over the weekend. I approached it from never using Windows 8 and this was done on purpose. I wouldn't say I was anti-Windows 8 from the beginning, but the things that I heard and read were enough for me to play the waiting game.
So when Windows 8.1 became available for testing and I heard the changes I felt it started to interest me enough to try. I have been using Windows 7 exclusively since it launched and have been, for the most part, happy.
To sum up everything about Windows 8.1 first, I will say: I both love and hate Windows 8.1. Read further.
Microsoft is so close with Windows 8.1. The idea behind it totally makes sense. An operating system that can streamline to mutliple devices and be consistant. And make everything easy to find on one screen, more depending how much you do. I love the idea behind Metro. A dynamic new start menu that can orgnaize exactly how I want. At first glance, this looks really good. Then, I open up the Task Manager app. Wait. Metro disappears and the old desktop is back. Did Windows make a mistake? Nope. So to display a small window it has to totally disable Metro and go to desktop to show what I want? And that makes sense to people? Why couldn't I have been shown the task manager in this beautiful dynamic Metro interface? Or why couldn't that small pop up window have displayed over Metro?
Next I try Firefox. Same thing. I am booted out of Metro and into the desktop. I close Firefox, instead of bringing me back to Metro it keeps me in the desktop. But I came here from Metro. Does that make sense? I compare it to Internet Explorer. Not quite the same, going from Metro to IE is much better, more fluid and consistant.
I have lots of little issues with Windows 8.1, but my big issue and what I feel the real problem with Windows 8.1 is it has a real identity crisis. It feels like two operating systems. Some will say yes but you can now choose the same identical backgrounds between Metro and Desktop so the transition isn't so jarring, but it still doesn't work. I shouldn't have to go to desktop for ANYTHING. I should be able to do everything from within Metro. And it should be smart enough to know if I use Metro to open something, that if it brings me to the desktop and I close out of that application I should be brought back to Metro. Or at least have an option for it. Also, keeping track of what applications are still running needs to be communicated better from within Metro. I lost count of how many applications were still running which I thought were closed when I left them, but were in fact still running.
Perhaps third time will be a charm? Here's hoping to you Windows 8.2


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- dany masado
- East Lansing, MI
- United States
This conversation is closed.
can we reform the discussion surrounding gender inequality?
As of late, the gender discussion seems to dominate the mainstream discussion on social justice. The alarming trend that I have noticed is that it has become a real battle of the sexes where one side accuses the other of causing its demise, which means any progress for one gender is seen as a loss for the other. I am proposing that we start to reframe the gender debate in a way where we can honestly address issues faced by men without saying "men just don't have as bad", in a way where we can address female issues without saying "women complain too much, get over it.
We must remember that progress in gender justice is (or should be) a benefit for all not a sum zero battle. Often, we get caught up if tallying up a score on who has it worse, rather than finding ways to address issues for both sides, simultaneously.
What will you tell your sons or your daughters when they come to you for advice?
Gord G
Jul 5 2012: Ultimately we can not solve gender issues together. Empathy is a subjective supposition. I believe we (male and female) need to find our true self through determined exploration of past indiscretions. We have all suffered and are shadows of the path we imagined for ourselves. I think rather than trying to adjust our behaviour to intellectual precepts, we need to find truth in our own journey before we can hope to be sensitive to the tribulations of others.Jul 4 2012: And you, Rhona, haven't responded to a single point I have made. You have carried on with your own agenda according to what you perceive, or know. How are we different? Please explain...how do you tell a businessman or businesswoman who just doesn't have the money, that they have to pay a person for 4 months for producing nothing? How do you do that? Is it okay for a French farmer to pay a Moroccan woman correspondingly more for peeling 3 times more garlic than a European in the same time? If so, is it ok to pay a man 33% more than a woman for bringing 3 tonnes of coal to the surface in the same time as a woman brings 2 tonnes to the surface?Jun 26 2012: I must remind you all that the purpose of this discussion is not create another battle of the sexes about the percentage of women represented in the top positions of companies or how many of them graduate from college with science degrees. This conversation aims to encourage us all to reframe the gender discussion, to truly understand how one gender's problem is not separated from the other, to accept that encouraging the success of women doesn't mean wishing the demise of men, to accept that men too are objectified, men too are raped and acknowledging that does undermine the issues faced by women.
- +3
All in all, my hope is that we can all do better! and we must do better!!!! redefine the way you look at gender equalityJul 4 2012: I have not read all comments so forgive me if I reiterate part of previous discussion but I would ask all of you under 40 to realize the older u get the more you see numerous ways in which inequality exists in subtle and insidious ways in U S society. It pains me to know that. No matter how much I do it will never be appreciated or respected in the way I would wish. Until we start really having men expected to truly consider egalitarian relationships I think women will be their own worst enemies in this world. It will take both genders to truly change and assist each other on multiple levels and not just financialJul 4 2012: If one cannot understand and accept the concept of wholeness within, then they are not able to reflect this acceptance outward. I believe for true change to occur, it begins with everyone individual understanding and accepting unity, as opposed to separateness. When one accepts and loves themselves this loving, accepting energy is carry forth from them. There are always going to be those who are not ready to accept this, that is OK. However, those who do, they must be the one to raise their voices for love, and acceptance of all; unity. Does this make sense?
Barry Palmer
Jul 5 2012: It makes perfect sense except for one part,
- +1
"There are always going to be those who are not ready to accept this, that is OK."
The whole feminist movement is about saying that this is not OK. Injustice is not OK.
Jul 5 2012: Barry, most of us are educated too and of course we can answer the points in isolation but integrting the information and allowing it to speak in proportion to the issues involved takes more than a flippant confidence.Jul 5 2012: I am not powerful enough to control others thoughts, nor do I want to. I Accept all. My purpose is to stand in my power and speak my truth, if my truth resonates with someone else this is great but not my purpose. My purpose is to connect to my heart and be true to myself and perhaps empower others through my process. In other words, by setting and example of self empowerment, speak from a space of acceptance,respect and honor. I feel it is a more powerful position, than trying to force,control, manipulate.....Jun 29 2012: Just some thoughts
women have feminity and have it well defined. What is needed is for a redefinition of masculinity.
Kids are being taught that women are as capable and intellegent as them, but at the same time (from personal experience) girls get preferential treatment
One thing I feel would help this immensly would be to balance out the ratio of men and woman teachers, this is the only career that needs to be about equal. I think that would go a long way into helping bridge any remaining distance between the treatment of men and women
Jul 3 2012: Yes, Scott this dicotomy is a problem that I never quite figured out how to handle. I was trying to raise boys who would become good men in a time of transition so I tried to instill the courtly values in them and sometimes they felt resentment when they did the 'right' or courtly thing and a girl seemed to get all the break. For a bad example - I literally told them that women do not 'toot' and if they did a gentleman would not notice. This is a weird hold over from another era BUT women sure appreciate my boys and their manners. I guess they consider it a win long term.Jun 27 2012: Mr Lee Miller, the fact that moral laws are broken does not mean societies that hope to attain order and security should stop making laws.
Banks will always be robbed, whether by armed robbers, trusted staff(good pretenders), shady corporate excecutives, or by hackers. But this does not stop banks from working hard to ensure security.
We will always have paedophiles, murderers and traffic offenders, but we cant not do away with the law because some people will break it anyway.
You may be right that Saudi Arabia has porn sites, but it sure doesn't have as much as the US.
Issues that face women all over the world are peculiar to the various nations. Women do live in a sort of 'private hell' as it pertains to established oppression.
I just want us to have the right perspective, and not to think that women in the US,UK or elsewhere in the developed world are better off that women elsewhere. The oppression of women is like the same story performed in different theatres all over the world.
Well packaged garbage is still garbage.
Jun 30 2012: Define a woman's 'private hell' .Jun 26 2012: The issue of gender inequality is a tricky one. Just like freedom or democracy. Freedom as a concept falls into a trap if it is recieved as 'living without any restraints'; just as democracy could fall into the trap of 'tyranny of the majority' as if anything is right as long as there are enough people to support it.
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Gender inequality persists because most of the proponents of gender equality are not sure what it entails, even though there is so much noise about it.
The super-American feminists would want to 'save' the Middle-east/African women, even when women in the US are reduced to mere objects of sexual pleasure by popular culture.
In the US, pornography is a multi-billion dollar industry, and most citizens would deny watching porn(as if the billions just flew off from some pit). Saudi Arabia does not have this kind of exploitation of women.
Jesus Christ says in Luke 6:41-42 "And why worry about the speck in your friends's eye when you have a log in your own? How can you think of saying, 'friend,let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye, when you cant see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrites! First get rid of the log in your eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye."
Women would need self-examination if gender equality is to be a reality. How do women react to the objectification of their kind? Are they enjoying all the attention?
Sex sells, we are told. So, how will that image of a 'just a pretty face that helps to sell stuff', 'whore' , 'stripper' , 'seducer' , 'one of the spoils of a successful man' that has been created by the media, how will these images ever come to respect, let alone being able to 'save' the women of India or Africa?
Any attempt to promote equality without careful consideration to determine what is morally right and what is morally wrong, is doomed to fail.
In our world where things are taken as 'good' or 'great' as long as such brings money, I guess we are going nowhere slowly.
pat gilbert
Jun 26 2012: To reform the conflict there first has to be a basic understanding about conflict. It is just the simple fact that there is a party who benefits from the conflict. This is often the cause of wars, divorce, and fights. The key is to expose the party who benefits from the conflict.
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I talked about this on the other thread but it fell on deaf ears.
Jun 26 2012: I hear you, pat. I agree with you. Truth out!
dany masado
Jun 26 2012: The question however is, what is this party we speak of? that is what we must identify; saying that men are the ones who enjoy all the privileges ignores a much bigger problem where men are also enslaved by the rigidity of masculinity, which in turn influences how a woman is treated and why her success might seem threatening to a man. It is a dynamic that cannot and should not be ignored because it slows down our progress toward gender equality
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Jun 26 2012: The party is an individual it is not a group. While it is true that a meme will be more predominant with one group or the other but in order to resolve the conflict it boils down to exposing an individual. In the case of women's right the ostensible one is Gloria Steinem.Jun 27 2012: I think you've hit on the problem. Men oppress women, but they also oppress each other. I once heard heard a woman say to a man: "You were born male; why do you think you have to keep proving that you're a man?"
dany masado
Jun 27 2012: "You were born male; why do you think you have to keep proving that you're a man?"
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I actually find that this quote perfectly embodies the problem faced by men today in that masculinity or manhood is something that can be given or taken away, something that must earned. Phrases such as "be a man", "man up" "grow some balls" are illustrations that manhood is a very fragile thing and that's something that must be recognized when we deconstruct the man to woman interaction. The pressure a guy feels to treat a woman a certain way, to have sex with a certain number of women, to be tough, and the lingering knowledge that if you don't act a certain way, your man card can be revoked. That is something that I think ought to be addressed and I think would have a profound impact on the gender dynamicJul 3 2012: Pat. maybe it is not about deaf ears but about time restaints. I do not remember seeing your quretion or idea.
Could you please share more of those thoughts here?
Jul 3 2012: Conflict is caused by another party who is not the obvious 2 opposing groups or individuals.
E.G. a couple is divorcing and get lawyers the lawyers exacerbate the situation as it is in their best interest to do so. World War 2 might have been financed by those who profit from a war.
Jul 4 2012: Thank you, Pat. In my case, I decided against the woman pit bull and chose a mediative lawyer. His lawyer was not mediative and man did that cause me trouble. My ex emailed me a separation agreement and told me to sign. I was aware enough to get legal advice but every change he made, I ended up paying for.
Yes, lawyers do profit but it is our divorce ()Unfortunatelly) just as it was MY tumour. IN the end we chose our own direction. How often have I told people not to surrendert their children blindly to paediatricians -they are your kids -h/she is the expert in children but YOU are the ex]prt in this child. The same goes for our relatiohships. My ex only paid 2 months at 700 bucks after 5 kids and 28 years - many of which I was at home after paying off our first house. Still, even though the kids did not want me in legal battles with their Dad, the outcome is my responsibility if I chose a mediative lawyer and was not sufficiently shrewd. I do not think I can ever forget that he is the father of my children and I wanted nothing so much as peace betwen us. I do not think the lawyers did this. I think we did.Jul 4 2012: Got it, however that does not negate the principle. If you don't think the lawyers had something to do with this your are fooling yourself.
Jul 4 2012: Yes, I agree that the system needs serious reform in both countries.
Now, I know you will hate this but I just found it and think it is fun.
pat gilbert
Jul 4 2012: Of course you do...
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Vera Nova
Jul 7 2012: New social EDUCATION would help when everyone would be able to learn how to be an INDIVIDUAL not a thing that Belongs to some tribe. We do live in our mixed societies but each of us is born unique and this uniqueness is crying to manifest itself. New School? I mean we shall learn to respect the values within every individual. One person is not a tribe. If you bring your tribal behavior, mentality and habits to some public place you are more or less Violating other individuals. I think this initially good intention in developing our postmodern civilization means to let people be individuals without demonstrating their physical, religious or other kinds of origins when they are not asked for it. If I come to the bank, a public service place, asking for a job, wearing some loud native outfit and manifesting my tribal ideas, I would most likely scare the rest of people away.
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Be an INDIVIDUAL in our mixed society while developing our original characters however with respect to our complicated social environment is the key. Before demonstrating that you belong to any tribe be yourself, and be responsible for yourself.Jul 5 2012: Though I haven't read every comment there's posted here, and I just scanned through the topic, from what the comments I've seen I can already tell where this is heading. Though this is supposed to be about 'gender inequality' and how we should stop hurting each other, because its rather pointless to even compare men to women, both are very different. What I see here is people talking about how bad women have it, its the same topic every single time. Once the topic of gender inequality is brought up, we cant stop talking about how badly women are treated.
Yes in the past they weren't treated unfairly, and yes you still have it bad in a way. But even so, since after all this is the topic about gender inequality, why don't we talk about men as well? Men have it pretty bad too, specially nowadays. You see women being pitied when something bad happens, such as Debra, in one of her comments she pointed out how badly she was treated at work, yet no man here, at least not from what I've read...has said anything about how unfairly they are also treated. Without notice, the world we live in has...in a way, become feminist. Just two weeks ago, I was siting at a bar looking around just to find myself looking at very nice woman, she was beautiful. Without even noticing I apparently stared for a slight second or two, well it was enough for her to meet eye contact with me. And upon us making eye contact she immediately chuckled and called me a 'pervert' as if I was staring at her breasts or anywhere that might lead her to say this. But in fact...I was merely looking at her face. What do you make of that? '' Men are beasts who prey of women!'' men also have stereotypes and have it bad. But even so...we hardly ever talk about any of it. Women in the past and even now have it tough, but in a way, its their fault too. Just like its mens fault that we are seen as rapists if we walk on the streets at night alone.Both genders/sex's have faults in how they are currently being treated.
Aja B.
Jul 5 2012: I've noticed that, whenever large groups of people try to correct something they agree is wrong, they have a tendency to over-correct. I think you're right that we're starting to see something of an over-correction to the mistreatment of women in places... which isn't to say that women aren't still being mistreated, of course they still are, but that the growing tendency to treat all men as abusers of women and children is ridiculous and unjust. We can, as a society, treat women well without tearing men down.... but I worry that it may take some time to find the right balance.Jul 5 2012: Michel, if you read the short paragraph introducing this conversation, you will notice that I did point out there are issues that men are facing which don't get enough spotlight, and this is why I welcome people to engage in a conversation where these issues can be addressed. I am glad you are remind us to give attention to the other side too
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Ata Shirazi
Jul 3 2012: FEMINISM DEADLOCK
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I want to elaborate the phrase "feminism deadlock" which I used it in my comments. Unfortunately the feminist movements have been impeded by several successive historical catastrophes. After first victory for feminists in 1920, when they gained federal amendment for Women's Suffrage, a controversy aroused between feminist activists and cleaved them into tow antagonistic parties. A party thought that they reached their goal and the movement has reached its end and the other party believed that it is the genesis of a long and arduous procedure. When feminists were engaged this tough dispute the first catastrophe happened: The Great Depression. Then job opportunities disappeared and people lost their careers. Traditional workers, men, considered new workforce, women, as rival. It was too soon for society to accept a woman as breadwinner. Hence, men tried aggressively to take jobs form women. It was a shattering blow for feminist movement.
After that, the second catastrophe occurred: the World War II. This war masculinized the atmosphere intensely again and people forgot all things about gender justice because of more severe issues.
In 70s and 80s, by developing the communication technology, the trio of the mass media, popular culture and capitalism formed an impenetrable fort that has a great disposition to objectification of women.
Now, I think people have no interest in changing the gender justice situation and are satisfied with current status. They just grumble sometime about it ignorantly. When I refer to feminism deadlock I mean this indifferent attitude towards gender justice which has a historical base.
Jul 4 2012: Thank you Ata for that valuable contribution to our understanding.Jul 3 2012: Until we are willing to explore and connect to our masculine and feminine energies within and bring them into unity within, there will be no tangible actions taking place. Everyone has masculine and feminine within and we all need to connect to both sides of ourselves. Then we will be able to experience respect and honor both sides of ourselves and thus create equality for all. It is not a man and woman issue, it is accepting ourselves as a whole (masculine and feminine energies) and not as separate.
Jul 3 2012: Teresa, I am not sure about this because I sort of think that it was accessing my whole self and not just the 'masculine" of my personality that led me to wish to have good, well paying work and thus to do a nontradtional job.
Jul 4 2012: When coming from a space of balance, it is no longer about the masculine and feminine, it is about freedom for all, respect and honor. When we choose to see ourselves as separate, this is what leads to judgment.
Jul 4 2012: What a great new response! It is hard to feel part of a group that rallies its identity by marginaizing the newcomers.Jul 5 2012: I certainly and wholeheartedly agree with your idea.
However, the whole reason there is a feminist movement is that there is a portion of the population that do not agree with us. We might convince their children to our way of thinking, but meanwhile we have to do something about injustice now.
Barry Palmer
Jul 4 2012: "Everyone has masculine and feminine within"
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I have heard and read this many times, and it is always stated as an absolute, and always in the context of a solution. The problem is that the people who are the problem are not listening, and even if they were, they would reply by either laughing or saying "You just don't understand."
The actual situation is more like, we are all women, and some of us have more testosterone than others. There is a genetic condition called Androgen insensitivity syndrome. At the extreme, every cell in the body cannot absorb any testosterone at all. When a genetic male has this condition, the result is a very voluptuous female body, without the inner female genitalia.
Our masculine and feminine traits start with biology, but our upbringing has a big effect also. I think a great deal of my morals and notions of masculinity came from John Wayne movies, no joking. I think the point I am trying to make is that this is a very complex reality and talk about male and female energies oversimplifies it to the point of uselessness. Teresa, I fully agree that accepting ourselves as a whole is very important. Knowing ourselves is a big part of the answer. Lets make sure we get it right, or the people who need convincing will be right to not listen.Jul 3 2012: The truth of the this debate is what exactly is equality? Males and females are very different. Some of this "discrimination" does not come through sexist ideas but rather from practicality. Look at construction workers for example. There are probably a lot more male construction workers than female construction workers. While I think a women would certainly be able to be a great construction worker, it would probably be easier for the male who is on average taller and heavier than his female counterpart. I don't necessarily see that as discrimination, but I see it as efficiency.
I believe that in many ways women are discriminated against in the work place. There are many more male dominated jobs than women dominated jobs. This in large has been based on physical requirements of jobs and social attitudes. Remember that until fairly recently in American history (world war 1 was when it women really joined the work force in mass, and again in WWII), and people just take a long time to break stereotypes.
It seems that women who have children can cause relatively more issues for employers than their husbands. A lot of that is simply biological. Maternity leave is still a chunk of time where someone cannot work. Males don't have this equivalent. Also, I saw something on the news that I think is important. I saw a women recently sue her company because her company wouldn't let her off early to pick up her child from school. She wanted to get off two hours early many different days. As the boss of that company, I would not grant that request because I'd be missing an employee for two hours frequently; it would have nothing to do with the fact that she was a mother.
Males and females have different biological needs and social roles. These different needs require different rules and regulations.These different regulations are not "equal" though. I don't think true equality is what we even really want. I think as a society we just need to be reasonable and unbiased.
Liz McLellan
Jul 3 2012: Noah I suggest you look at how the Scandinavian countries have been handling these issues for 50 years now... not to the detriment of any company, women, men or their economies. I think you would be surprised to find out that your positions and thinking are quite retrograde.
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As for women construction workers...averages are not the issue. A small man with relatively little upper body strength who spent his youth typing away on a keyboard would be no match for an athletic woman who spent her youth doing triathalons. We need to stop thinking in "averages" and open the world up to individuals with strengths and weaknesses...
Jul 3 2012: I second Liz here. In Canada, what it has taken to defeat this type of usually faith based logic is human rights legislation. Our human rights tribunals have proven scientifically that many of the so called requirements for jobs were simply guesses for lack of a better word - designed to keep women and minorities out. For example how tall should you be to be a good firefighter? Is it relevant?Jul 4 2012: Noah does have a great point though. We do need to really define what we mean by equality. We often say that there is an undeniable bias toward males in the top positions, yet nobody seems to point out the fact that Another thing to point out is that men have the highest percentage of job related injuries or fatalities, not counting the obvious life expectancy difference. Do we attribute this to gender inequality too, or do we simply say that it's the way things are?
Jul 4 2012: To Mrs Smith and Mrs. McLellan, I totally see what you're saying. I was not saying that there were not exceptions to stereotypical views of men and women; I was simply pointing out a biological truth. Men are normally larger. There are certainly exceptions to this like the hypothetical example that Mrs. McLellan pointed out. There is something very important to note about the stature difference though. Why are there different divisions between males and females in sports? In the olympics, the weight-lifting is split into a male and female division because, on average, the male competitors are larger. All I'm saying is that there is a biological difference that slightly favors men in physically demanding jobs. Mrs. Smith, I really know nothing about these laws, so I don't know what to say about them. I believe that a company should hire who they believe would do the job in the best way possible. I couldn't really see the height of a firefighter being relevant. The firefighter should be chosen based on his or her ability to do the job.
Dany, I believe that a lot of the job-related injuries come from the differences in jobs. I believe that if there were equal amounts of men and women in these jobs, the difference in injuries would be much smaller.
One other issue is the choice of vocation. My teacher is a female engineer which was very uncommon when she graduated. It is not that her female friends couldn't be an engineer (they most certainly could), they simply chose to get some other degree. That being said, it does create a field that has many more males than females. I don't think that this is necessarily sexist though. Society didn't really stress female engineers thirty years ago, so we have many male engineers. This isn't really discrimination against women; it is societal thinking though that just promotes other jobs. I don't believe that women were ever told "you can't" they just were never told "you should." Now there are more female engineers than back then
Jul 4 2012: I love chatting with you Noah!
I simply feel that while there are a few occupations (furniture movers)ho benefit from greater physical strength - it is worse than you let on- with women having estrogen influenced muscle mass and men having testosterone influenced muscle mass- partially creating the difference in physique- but it is still the men in charge holding on to old and worn out logic to keep certatin folks out of the fold.
What I did not tell this group is that four of us were hired on the same day. 3 men and me. The toolmakers refused to train a woman and threatened a walk out strike. The union backed the men (the majority and to hell with facts or truth) and all four of us were laid off to appease them. We were rehired one day after out lay off surpassed the time we worked (to surcumvent legalities) and rehired with a different job description which did not require our training by toolmakers. We were, of course paid less. I had to get my training from some men who would not even talk to me. They did not want me there and they felt that they should not have to train a woman. How would you endure such treatment? How can we all do better for your daughters and sisters and for my sons?
BTW- I worked there for ten years and guess what???????????????
They denied me a pension because I had taken a maturnity leave during that time.Jul 4 2012: Debra, I totally see understand your side. There are only a few jobs which physique plays a fundamental role, but i still think it is worth mentioning. You were wronged; there is no denying that. I don't really know how to "fix" the problem either. The only thing silver lining that I can see on this issue is that things are changing. Sexism is becoming less common in the younger generations. That is coming through women who work hard and accomplish despite the opinions of others. Your ten years at this job proved that you could do this job quite well. You chiseled against the stereotype and changed how the people you worked with saw women in your field. We are changing the stereotypes; unfortunately culture takes a long time to change.
The only thing that we have to be conscious of is the what we are working for. Our goal should always be equality. We need to be very careful that we don't inadvertently hurt the other sex while trying to promote our own.Jul 1 2012: Dany Masado,
"More importantly, Is it possible that some men felt that they were restricted to working ungodly hours to be the breadwinner when they wish they could spend more time with their children?"
This is a great question, and there are a couple parts to it.
First, the directly stated:
-", Is it possible that some men felt that they were restricted to working ungodly hours to be the breadwinner"?
-" they wish they could spend more time with their children?"
Second, the indirectly stated:
-Did it take away from women the chance to be a breadwinner and possibly do it in a career that they may have cherished while being a major contributor to the field?
I commend these questions as valuable to all of our freedoms (also of course the topic of the debate). Even if having a child is a choice, should that choice take away specific freedoms from each gender, or should the person (not the gender) get to choose their contributions? Is this a choice our societies truly offer?
(Sorry for the delayed response)Jul 1 2012: In response to my take on this topic, J M asked me to define a woman's 'private hell'.
I used the word 'hell' as a symbolism for oppression. Women all over the world are dealing with domestic violence, objectification, institutionalised inequalities and oppressive cultural/traditional practices.
A woman may face one, all or none of these; and individual experiences are individual experiences.
One may symphathise or emphathise with an oppressed fellow, but it is impossible for someone to feel a pain that is experienced in another person's body.
That is why I called it 'private hell'; in order to make it clear that women in the developed nations are not in any way better than Middle-East, Indian, Chinese, or African women. Just like someone agonising over a toothache, is in no way better than someone who has just been shot in the foot with an AK47.
An African proverb says 'Think twice if a ragged man promises you a beautiful cloth'.
The effects of oppression on individuals do vary. In fact, the responses of oppressed individuals to oppression, varies.
Sometimes oppression becomes fatal such that the oppressed could forget his or her original state of freedom. One will definately not notice the abnormal if one does not even know(or remember vividly) the norm.
A tamed lion, a charmed snake, a castrated bull or a de-horned Rhino; are all different from an unaltered lion,snake,bull or rhino.
Here, the animals are different. So their alteration is a form of 'private hell'.
There is a gap between equality laws and attitudinal realities. Now, I refer to the attitude of men and women. The truth is that some nations have successfully created the illussion that women are free; while some other nations have made it clear that they are not.
dany masado
Jul 1 2012: "The truth is that some nations have successfully created the illussion that women are free; while some other nations have made it clear that they are not."
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I couldn't agree more
Jul 3 2012: Free to do what? What can't people do now that they want to? I hear this all the time. If only we were free... What do women want to do that's so wonderful and perfect and if only men would stop holding them back?
Women graduate high school and college at higher rates than men in the US... and have for 30 years straight... but men are oppressing women.
Women are less likely to be unemployed than men... and have been for 20 years.
Womens health costs more money than mens health because of pregnancy, so men are taxed extra to cover the difference.
Womens retirement costs more than mens, because they live a decade longer than men... So men are taxed to cover that too.
Rape and murder are down. It's illegal to beat your wife. "Irreconsilable differences" is grounds for divorce...
What are men doing that is so horrible? I was born in 1982... so I haven't seen any of this oppression you talk of.
It's also important to point out that while women were being oppressed in the 1960's... Men were being drafted into a meaningless war. Rich men have it easy, and they always have, most guys, do now, and have always, lead miserable lives where they work for people they hate, to feed their family.
Jul 3 2012: Oh David- pick something other than pregnancy- we might carry the ball but you made the pass! That in particular seems like we are on the same team (even if we do all the work!)Jul 4 2012: David, I think you make a valid point, especially in reference to the fact that all men are required to register for the draft, which women don't have to do. The graduation rate for women is much higher, but nobody sees this as alarming because it indicates progress in the women's empowerment movement. We do need to be able to address men's issues as well as women, avoid dismissing either gender's problem under the idea that either one has it worse. domestic violence is still a problem so is rape (no matter that the rates are down, they could be better). however, I also see a bias in the way rape is addressed in that there isn't enough coverage on male rape (especially in the military). Wasn't it recently that the definition of rape was changed to include males too? I think that is grounds for dicussionJul 4 2012: I apologize for being a bit terse... It just seems to me like everyone feels oppressed now, but we all think our group has it worse... To me, all the arguments fell apart when old white men started to be able to sue their employers for agism... Really... Old white men are being descriminated against?... in the job market? We're doing something wrong here.
I don't mean to pretend that women don't have specific issues, that do warrant further work, study, and assistance. In every southern state they're trying to pass birth control legislation, and that's nonsense. It's rediculous that we're re fighting some of these battles.
You mentioned sex trafficing... I personally think an honest discussion of legalization of prostitution, might be essential to dealing with that problem long term, but it's a very sensitive subject with fair and rational arguments on both sides. Whatever the solution however, it is simply unacceptable that this is a relatively common practice in strip clubs country wide.
Btw... The real increase in medical expenses comes from increased life expectancy, I just wanted to talk about that with social security : p. Just so you know I don't have any problem with these taxes and such, I've been convinced by the argument that these are good investments...
I just think it's important to point out, if you smoke, drink, or eat too much... and you're a man. Statistically, you will pay into social security for 30 years, and die before you collect. African American and Latino men also have shockingly low life expectancies to this day... In fact, the average black man, lives to be 67, and that's the age you start collecting social security under current changes...
There are dark aspects to our system, that need to be reformed... I just really think men and women need to work together if we want to fix them, and... Life's hard all around.
"A woman who seeks to be equal to a man, lacks ambition" Timothy LearyJun 30 2012: Dany, I have to place much of the blame on media coverage. They report the extremes and exploit the "gory" details of all incidents. How often do you hear the good things that are happening in the world of EEOC, advances by people and companies, seldom because it is not news worthy. Tabloids and bad media keep the fires stirred up.
We do not need to re-focus or reform ... we need to accentuate the positive ... eliminate the infatuation with the negative. Perhaps a better way would be to resolve the issues on a smaller scale. Resolve them one on one not as a office issue where everyone must take a side.
My sons can all cook, sew, do dishes and have changed diapers. My daughters can change tires, do plumbing, and household repairs. The is no man / woman work .. there are tasks that need to be done.
All the best. Bob.
Jul 1 2012: I am so glad that you are raising your children do defy the stereotypes, to simply be who they want to be, outside of gender role restrictions. I also wholeheartedly agree with you that the media does tend to sensationalize the negative rather than give us more positivity. It would indeed help to have a little hope that things are on their way upJun 29 2012: Understand your point......my feeling is even after re-framing / re-pharsing words of subject of such discussion / debate, things will come out which are deep seated in the mind due to tradition practiced centuries after centuries in human civilization without having conscious effort to change our psyche.
Wish your such effort will make feeling to be wrong....
dany masado
Jun 29 2012: I am sure that a paradigm shift in the way we discuss gender equality will not come easy, because change is destabilizing and often frustrating. It is indeed a conscious and difficult effort to make, but I don't think progress can be made otherwise
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Jul 1 2012: I don't think equality and progress are the right words in this matter.
If you look at traditional cultures life could only be sustained by a certain division of tasks between genders. Modern life changes fast, much more fast than most people can follow. Lots of people adapt to the new circumstances while others migrate from traditional areas.
So it isn't progress but adaptation to a new way of life and it isn't a fight for equality, for genders were mostly equal in respect within traditions all over the world.
Over time there's been a change of focus within humane life. At first all interest was on the group, then it became fhe family and now the focus changes to the individual.
Jul 3 2012: Great points and they are well argued!Jun 29 2012: This is what I would tell my kids (in my current case my little brother):
We are all people, but we are also all different. We see things differently, we feel stresses differently, and we draw different conclusions in different situations. All of this and more are exactly the reasons why we have our own individual value and make our own contributions to our world. Our only definitive equality is that we are all different and the difference are much more fundamental than gender.
The human brain "names" people with differences: how their face looks, what the color of their skin is, what their gender is, and so on... Our brains then use this natural naming tendency as a foundation of definition. The problem is this habit sometimes causes us to draw conclusions which are not well founded at all levels.
In example: a man might recognize that someone is a woman and therefore draw the conclusion that they are different from each other. This is true. But it doesn't stop there; then they conclude they can do different things and in turn they can't do the same things. Not true at all levels.
Humans have a tendency towards pride, and that pride often turns into a feeling of being better than someone else (hubris). In a society that has primarily been dominated by men, this tendency has turned toward men being better than women. This tendency is an extreme and is not true on this general basis. The only thing that you can say on this general level is that they are different.
Jun 29 2012: One of the important reason for this illusion that men are better than women is that women have been restricted in home to give birth and take care of children and often didn't take other more serious social positions. But today, families have for the most part only one or tow children. On the other hand, there are many modern facilities and legislation which allow families to take care of their children in new ways. Nevertheless, still there is a great tendency between women to stay home or take low-level jobs such as clerkship. For instance you can take a look at staff of a university; most professors are men and most secretaries are women. Why women still follow patriarchal rules however the situation has been completely changed?
Jun 29 2012: maybe a bigger problem here is to ask ourselves why we think that staying at home giving birth and taking care of children is not a "serious social position". This forces us to really re-evaluate why stay-at-home moms have almost become tantamount to wasted potential, as if they are to be pitied regardless of whether or not it was a choice for them to stay home and care for the kids.
More importantly, Is it possible that some men felt that they were restricted to working ungodly hours to be the breadwinner when they wish they could spend more time with their children? In our quest for gender equality, do you think that stay at home dads get the same rep that mothers do? What is your first reaction when you hear a man say he stays at home to care for the kids while his wife works? This is yet another example of the gender restriction on men which inevitably affect the man to woman interaction.
Jun 29 2012: This idea is very excellent that man and woman in a family share a fixed amount of working hours per week equally and each of them spends equal hours at home and take care of children and do household chores. It can ameliorate the negative effect of long working hours especially in routine jobs and provide more free time to foster creativity or non-profit activities at home. However this plan cannot expand to all class of families. For example when you are a executive manager you cannot attend your company only 3 days per week or a mechanical design engineer who must accomplish a major project during one year cannot go to work part-time and prolong the project, because it will lead to financial loss and miss the market. Nevertheless, these families have enough income to hire servant.
But let me to emphasize that in my view cooking for your own sake, taking care of you own child and doing your domestic chores of your own home IS NOT A JAB! A job is a career which involves promotion, social interaction, appropriate income, organization and so forth.Jun 29 2012: maybe a bigger problem here is to ask ourselves why we think that staying at home giving birth and taking care of children is not a "serious social position".
This is no mystery. Anyone can stay home and raise children. No qualifications needed, no need for an interview, and the position often gets no pay. It is one of the least exclusive roles in society. IMO, there are two related problems that together become the root cause of this lack of status. One, the tradition that a man's home is his castle, and whatever happens in that home is the business of the family and no one else, especially not the government. So there are no standards or guidelines for raising children. Not long ago, beating your children was perfectly acceptable if you did not break bones.
The second problem is the flip side of the first one. We have no scientifically confirmed method for raising children. I have not kept up with the research in this area, but when I first became a father, in 1977, I looked up everything that was available. There were about a half dozen methods of child raising that could credibly claim to be scientifically based. So I looked into the independent studies of these methods, and found that only one of them had better results than children raised with none of these methods, and the improvement was insignificant. I remember that one of the methods produced a significantly higher percentage of teenagers abusing drugs.
So basically, society believes that raising kids is a 'by guess and by golly' business, as evidenced by the fact that parents who appear to be doing everything right still produce children who become criminals, drug abusers, or just lazy losers.
A successful scientific method for raising children will transform our society, and trained parents will get the status of respected professional.Jul 3 2012: And if I had kids I would not let you anywhere near them friend! No offense intended... but state sanctioned methods come and go. Most of them have been misery making unscientific ideological drivel backed up by men in white coats and a certain level of coersion.
My job as a parent is not to raise cogs for your corporate machine - the network of "respected professionals" - as I am one I suggest that is a rather limited spec for a well raised human.Jul 4 2012: Liz, please take another look. I never mentioned state sanctioned methods and would oppose them. I have no corporate machine. I never suggested that "respected professional" was the spec. There is a lot of good research being done into child development and parenting, and some of it has produced very surprising results. If this research eventually produces a SUCCESSFUL (no teens abusing drugs or alcohol, no juvenile delinquents, etc.) method of parenting, I am sure you would at least look into it before rejecting it.Jun 28 2012: Can I humbly submit that in my experience good men hate what I have had to endure? When I was at GM I was sexually inexperienced and wholly unprepared for someone to ;help' himself to servings of my body. IN their peer group where I was the only woman, it was pretty cool to grab me by the boob or crotch- at least at first while I was still working out how to deal with it. It took me years and a hell of a lot of stress to figure out how to deal with it. BUT I DID and so I have less patience for women who blow off my real work and complain about this more limited definition of sexual harassment. The laws are there because it can get really bad reaaly fast without them even among men who have wives and daughters of their own who feel they would never treat them in such a manner- which is pecisely the problem- they put those women in a different category from 'my kind of woman.' What kind is that, I ask?The kiind who wants to make a living and be well paid for it?
Jun 28 2012: WOW, that must have been stressful >.< Sometimes people might think they are doing one thing but they are really doing something completely different (of course sometimes people know exactly what they are doing). Acceptance and comradery can quickly become exploitation and degradation.
Jun 29 2012: Hi Robert, yes, it was certainly stressful at the time but in a weird way it made my values coalesce. I purposed then never to do such a thing (emotionally) to another and I do not knowingly do so and I pray that I do not do it unknowingly either.
It was NOT sexual at all at heart. It was dominant and it was meant to put me in my place - and I still do not know where they believed that was.Jun 29 2012: I consider myself a good man, and on behalf of most of them, I have to say that your experience, is exactly why good men, also tend to have difficulty with confidence and self image. To me, the struggle of a good man, is to learn to control his own often brutally self destructive nature, for the sake of the people he cares about... The werewolf, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Most good men know these laws were put in place for a reason.
At the same time, as a member of a much younger generation, I have to suggest that paranoia, over sexual confusion turning into lawsuit, has changed the way men and women interact, in a strange way. Men are so much better at controlling themselves nowadays, that many, are convincing themselves that the beast was just a legend. There are are 25 year old men, who actually believe that they are these androgenous carefree creatures... and... they're not.
No one's really correcting the behavior, because women feel like they've found friends, and comrades with which to share experience... when in reality, it is more often a wolf in sheeps clothing. Quite a few men who grew up, very good at navigating these weird new social norms, are actually what I like to call "secret relationship sociopaths". People that just ride a wave of lies, and self humiliation for a year or so, it collapses around them, and then they move on to the next relationship, with almost no pause between, because they have so many "friends".
Good young men worry about this strange, dark, undercurrent developing in masculine society. Often we feel like laws have made it difficult for us to speak honestly in public space, and it makes this weird subculture difficult to fix. I think most good men realize that laws needed to be put in place to defend against such awful abuse as what you experienced however. Such behavior must be legally, and socially unacceptable. We just may have gone a bit to far in self censoring, and it may be a bit unhealthy, imho.
Jun 29 2012: I wonder if people have any idea how wonderful it is for me not to have to keep quiet and pretend my experiences never happened? Thanks so much for talking with me about this - sometimes it still rolls over inside and I wonder WHY"
Your points are so important as a foil. What the women learned and experienced influenced and impacted all the men in their lives just as all men do determines how women react to them. I hate what the innocent young guys have endured too. It is not fair! How do you think the brutality i experienced affected my burgeoning sex life with my husband. It did affect me, it cannot be denied.
All I ever wanted was the chance to work and do work that was meaningful to me so that I could take good care of those who were entrusted to me. Once I had the job all of the expectations flooded in and there was no way to quit or go back.
Your point about what is called "serial friendshp" is on Psychologist's radar/ It is maladaptive and it is destructive even as it appears as a coping mechanism. You are intuitive and intelligent. Hold on to your observations lightly so they are not toxic to you, good man.
Jun 29 2012: I get all the toxins out in comedic vitriol on the internet. I've always loved the yin and yang of tragedy and comedy. I don't think there's a harder thing in the world for a compassionate human being to do, than to write a good holocaust joke. If ever I sound a bit too heavy... there's a reason that people like George Carlin get popular in their 40's, it takes a long time to refine the skill. You're reading some of the duds : p
Seriously, ponder for a moment, what a great problem this is that we have... Could you ever imagine, when you were going through what you did, that one day it might get so safe in the workplace, that we'd be complaining it's getting a bit boring, and that's creating creepy people? Compared to the problems we've had in the past, this is childs play, lol... but it's still important.
This discussion actually illuminated what I was talking about before in reference to culture. Until fifty years ago, there was almost no where in the world a woman could live, and not be treated the way you were... Yet every country in the world thought their culture was so good, they should export it everywhere else... We really are a pretty dumb bunch of chimpanzees.


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The SoCal Network Assemblies of God is one of approximately fifty-six geographical and non-geographical language districts, including Hispanic, Portuguese, German, and Korean, that comprise the General Council of the Assemblies of God (USA), a Pentecostal denomination with over 66 million worldwide and nearly three million in the United States. Organizationally, SoCal Network offices occupy a middle position between the denomination's national offices, located in Springfield, Missouri, and the approximately 13,000 local Assemblies of God churches in the United States.
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Amazing organic red clover tea.
3 人が、次のレビューが役に立ったと感じています
Caeruleaにより Jun 04, 2014 に掲載
This organic red clover tea tastes great and has a soothing herbal flavor and aroma. Rich in vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, tannins, flavonoids, phytosterols, and isoflavones, it's loaded with health benefits and great for people suffering from morning sickness, nausea, vomiting, meteorism, indigestion, bloating, flatulence, colics, IBS, nasal congestion, sore throat, cough, respiratory tract infections, bronchitis, tonsillitis, laryngitis, sinusitis, colds, flu, fever, emphysema, asthma, high cholesterol, cardiovascular conditions, hypertension, migraines and headaches, menopause, hot flashes, breast pain and tenderness, premenstrual syndrome, muscle, joint and nerve pain, earache, chronic fatigue syndrome, anxiety, agitation, restlessness, depression, dementia, dizzy spells, palpitations, gluten intolerance and celiac disease, diabetes, period cramps, arthritis, rheumatism, osteoporosis, water retention, gallstones and gallbladder disease, and even cancer. Famous for its superb antiseptic, anti-inflammatory, antibiotic, antibacterial, antimicrobial, antiviral, antifungal, analgesic, antispasmodic, tonic, cicatrizant, soothing, healing, pacifying, nervine, and antidepressant properties, red clover tea energizes and awakens the senses, uplifts mood, aids sleep, flushes toxins out of the body, boosts and strengthens the immune system, inhibits the absorption of viruses and helps eliminate them from the system, neutralizes free radicals and reduces acidity, increases energy levels, stimulates the production of digestive enzymes and improves enzymatic reactions in cells, aids digestion, improves kidney and liver function, prevents heartburn and acid reflux, relieves nausea and bloating, increases appetite, improves metabolism and fat burning, reduces inflammation, facilitates healing, improves brain function, helps stabilize blood sugar and regulate insulin levels by preventing blood spikes, normalizes blood pressure, lowers triglycerides and LDL or "bad" cholesterol levels while increasing HDL or "good" cholesterol, protects against strokes, atherosclerosis and peripheral arterial disease, helps maintain healthy bones, joints and teeth, soothes and heals dry and damaged skin, and even reduces the risk of cancer. A red clover tea bag can also be applied topically to treat acne, eczema, psoriasis, dermatitis, scabies, shingles, hives, sciatica, ringworm, chicken pox, dandruff, seborrhea, scalp infections, alopecia, gingivitis, parodontosis, gum disease, relieve toothache, prevent cavities and caries, soothe sore gums, facilitate the healing of wounds, sores, scars, bruises, abrasions, cuts, burns, rashes, burns, boils, blisters, insect bites and stings, canker sores, sunburn and peeling skin. It improves the complexion, brightens and evens out skin tone, reduces redness and inflammation, spots, blemishes, blotchiness and small lines, calms itching, helps break down old scar tissue, improves cellular circulation, supports and strengthens the skin's defensive mechanisms, stimulates cell renewal and regeneration, prevents premature aging. It's great for the scalp and hair, as well: it nourishes the scalp and protects it at the cellular level, removes dandruff and flakiness, strengthens the root bulbs and follicle connection, slows down hair loss, pro motes keratin production and hair growth. Red clover tea can also be used as a compress for sore muscles, stiff and achy joints, sprains and injuries: it stimulates blood circulation, relieves pain and aids in coagulation of wounds for faster healing. Red clover tea can also be used as a mouth wash and is great for soothing and healing sore, swollen, and bleeding gums. It's a great soothing and healing herbal tea and I would recommend it to women suffering from PMS, as well as to anyone wanting to lower their cholesterol, boost their immune system and improve their overall health and well-being.
I Love That This Product is Organic
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5308581530533028708により Oct 02, 2014 に掲載
Helps a lot with my PMS. I feel like a monster 2 weeks before my period, but this has helped tame me into a kitten instead of a 7-headed beast.
Good Product
Reviewer2354798により Dec 16, 2012 に掲載
Good tea to cleanse body system.
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Welcome to the Gwinnett Tech online newsroom, featuring facts and stats about the college, plus our history, a media archive and photos for download. If you are a member of the media needing information, contact firstname.lastname@example.com or call 678-495-3638.
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January 23, 2009
Free Tax Preparation Offered at Gwinnett Tech
Gwinnett Tech & AARP Tax-Aide Partner to Offer Help from Feb. 2 – April 15
Tax season is here … and help is on the way! Gwinnett Technical College is partnering with AARP Tax-Aide to offer free income tax preparation and tax counseling for community residents and Gwinnett Tech students, faculty and staff.
Volunteers with AARP Tax-Aide will be on the college's campus from Feb. 2 to April 15. Counseling and assistance will be available in the Busbee Center, Building 700, Room 2.108. Assistance will be offered each Monday, Wednesday and Thursday from noon to 3:30 p.m., as well as on Tuesdays from 1:30 to 4:30 p.m. (Note: No assistance on March 17 & 18.)
AARP Tax-Aide, the nation's largest, free, volunteer-run counseling and preparation service, last year assisted more than two million people file their personal income tax forms. The program is offered at more than 7,000 sites around the country including senior centers, colleges, libraries and other convenient locations. Each year at this time, AARP Tax-Aide volunteers prepare federal, state and local tax returns for middle and low income taxpayers, with special attention to those aged 60+.
Clients are asked to bring last year's income tax return, proper identification and all necessary documents for this tax year. Electronic filing will be available through this free service at Gwinnett Tech.
AARP Tax-Aide is administered through the AARP Foundation in cooperation with the Internal Revenue Service.
For more information about free income tax preparation and tax counseling available at Gwinnett Tech, call 770-962-7580.
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Gwinnett Technical College, one of Georgia's largest technical colleges, is committed to delivering relevant knowledge to meet the workforce training needs of the region it serves. The college offers more than 50 associate degree, diploma and certificate programs and hundreds of seminars, workshops and courses providing specialized training. Gwinnett Tech's service area includes Gwinnett and North Fulton counties. Gwinnett Technical College is accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges to award the associate degree. Contact the Commission on Colleges at 1866 Southern Lane, Decatur, Georgia 30033-4097 or call 404-679-4500 for questions about the accreditation of Gwinnett Technical College. In addition, some college programs hold separate licensure or accreditation status with appropriate agencies. For more information, visit www.GwinnettTech.edu.
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