text: 07/17/2006 lspp Meeting Minutes: =============================== Attendees Janak Desai (IBM) - JD George Wilson (IBM) - GW Loulwa Salem (IBM) - LS Debora Velarde (IBM) - DV Michael Thompson (IBM) - MT Joy Latten (IBM) - JL Thiago Bauermann (IBM) - TB Eduardo Fleury (IBM) - EF Fernando Medrano (IBM) - FM Nikhil Gabdhi (IBM) - NG Al Viro (Red Hat) - AV Irina Boverman (Red Hat) - IB Dan Walsh (Red Hat) - DW Lisa Smith (HP) - LMS Linda Knippers (HP) - LK Matt Anderson (HP) - MA Paul Moore (HP) - PM Klaus Weidner (Atsec) - KW Robert ... (Atsec) - ROB Darrel Goeddel (TCS) - DG Chad Hanson (TCS) - CH Corey .... (TCS) - COR Venkat Yekkirala (TCS) - VY Joe Nall - JN Lenny Bruzanak - LB Tentative Agenda: GW: Steve won't be joining today, he is in a plane during this meeting. LK: Also Amy is finishing up a few things before she leaves to OLS, so she is not coming. If we need her then I'll go get her. GW: Ok sounds good. Kernel update ------------- GW: looks like .45 kernel is not a good kernel. AV: Considering Linus won't be back for a while, it won't matter. Amy posted several fixes last week. I did a patch doing lazy audit stuff for situations when we have no rules at all. I Sent to Steve, and when he is back, will get it in new kernel. That's about it. GW: So hopefully we got everything close to completed AV: All pending stuff, is manageable. As soon as Linux is back we'll feed it to him. IB: is it still 2.6.18? AV: 2.6.18 does not exist, we have rc2. It is manageable in this cycle; some outright fixes; some performance fixes. GW: that's good news .. so the major outstanding feature is still networking. Hopefully Venkat is close to getting ipsec patches done. We still don't know the final decision on CIPSO. Hopefully these are all the major issues to complete. We will get a new kernel when Steve gets back. IB: maybe sooner. GW: That would be great if someone can get that out this week with updated ipsec patches with networking in at all. Any issues with kernel -1? we've been testing on it as well. AuditFS/inotify --------------- GW: anything on audit. Amy put in bug fixes. LK: she submitted three bug fixes. GW: Ok, great. We'll continue running audit tests to make sure there are no problems and we did not regress LSPP kernel issues ------------------ Audit userspace ---------------- Print ------ GW: Print, I saw the patches that Matt sent out. Anything you need to tell us on this Matt? MA: I sent out a patch; it works for me on MLS rawhide, but we are having problems internally testing it on targeted. LK: yes, I am running MLS and it is not working for me. MA: We noticed the trailing of banner page has dropped out of this patch. Also Lisa pinged me to add the audit failure case functionality. There will be a re-spin of cups patch later this week once we find out why it doesn't work for Linda. also a new one that works with "paps" package to remove dependency. Hopefully we get something to work for people. LK: needs to be before Thursday. IB: better by Wednesday. KW: need to be careful that even if "paps" is in rawhide, it might not be picked up by rhel. MA: thanks for bringing that to my attention Klaus, I'll check on that. GW: It's a good idea to stop development. Irena wants us to stop by Wednesday. IB: Freeze is on Thursday. so we just need to make a push and finish quickly. Are self tests part of rhel5? GW: should be part of the certification. IB: I was more concerned about user space packages. GW: how easy is it to inject bug fixes. In case we need to fix print after the freeze date. LK: I think it's close. it works for Matt, but not me, it's probably something small and we'll find it. if people want to try it it would help to figure out if it is just Linda or if it is something different in Matt's configurations. DW: Besides cups stuff, I updated some policy to allow cups to run. GW: thanks Dan. MA: great news Dan, thanks. The stuff I sent you earlier, is now out of date with the new changes. so if you can get the updated info please. DW: most problems I find is lpr command being prevented to run by normal users MA: the issue around run init is that lpq wouldn't work from there. DW: I put alot of fixes for that, I'll continue work and have it done tomorrow. Device allocation ------------------ GW: linda, klaus, and Casey brought up idea that device allocator is more relevant to print. one of the big push back Dan is getting on it being a trusted program, and there is no need for it to be trusted if used by regular users. Are people ok with it being not trusted. KW: it can be a trusted but not privileged (ie no setuid, or MLS privileges). CH: We want it. MA: if we get rid of dev allocator and have admins manually setting things, we would loose audit records. CH: yes it is a requirement, who allocates devices. LK: George was looking for ideas of what else it can be used for CH: we use it for user devices, CDrom for example as well KW: I don't know why you would need that. you need an admin to do that, not a user GW: wouldn't it need the ability to mount DG: mounting devices doesn't work, ideal goal is yes. You allocate the device and mount it KW: if anybody can write secret data to a floppy and it gets relabeled as unclassified it's a big hole DG: not any user, only users allowed to access the device CH: there is a user logged in, and they want to do something and they allocate that device GW: but that is for work stations CH: you are claiming that there are normal users logged in to the server. if there are cases for users, then they might need access to media devices. GW: if you have it mounted... CH: You can also tar the device. DW: the push back was because people prefer to have some interaction with HAL. DG: there are ways to not have it setuid. DW: right now with HAL, you stick a usb and it gets mounted and unmounted to the user; obviously you can't do that with ls pp. but if there is a way to communicate with HAL, that would work for us. DG: we'll look into that. It needs ability to relabel somehow as well. LK: doesn't it need setuid to audit DG: right, good point Linda. We need it to audit as well. GW: we decided to disable HAL after bootup DW: You need to just disable mount, unmount only GW: I believe we are shutting it off completely right now, Debbie correct me on this. DV: Yes, we are shutting it off completely after boot. KW: there are some features that can be useful in workstation environment, but they don't need to be used in certification. GW: we initially thought that user don't need to be able to mount/unmount devices, so this is late change in the game. Maybe we can have configurations to set up this. Is it too late to consider these changes Dan, or Irena. this doesn't seem like something we can get done by Wednesday. LK: Klaus mentioned that it can be included, but it doesn't need to be in certification. If we make a change now, I am thinking I need to update HLD, LLD, new test cases. GW: Yes Linda, exactly what I am thinking. IB: There are exceptions, but there are so many exceptions we can process and still maintain schedule. GW: yeah, so how important is it Chad. CH: we can continue to work on it, and send it upstream, so it probably doesn't have to be there at first, and we can just send it there. GW: it isn't useful unless it is setuid and can audit. Well not necessarily setuid, but there are ways to move around that; it needs to do some sort of type transition to be able to relabel. DG: the audit requirement is biggest for ls pp. DW: it doesn't limit it to admin, you can't have unlabeled data exported to labeled device, or labeled data to unlabeled device. GW: if we can meet requirement, and not have it integrate with HAL, then maybe Dan doesn't need to waste cycles on it. KW: I think it is not helping to have type environment. if it is something you can support yourself as you need then it is one less thing to worry about for rhel5. I think the action involved can be audited at syscall level. GW: so if syscall audit will meet requirements, then is that Ok. KW: what you are talking about is actually doing changecon, and setattrr which creates audit records that should have the info we need already GW: So are we telling Dan not to waste time on it .. KW: in my opinion it is not needed to have it DW: I agree, but I like to see it integrated in the future. CH: we will keep it in sourceforge and keep it updated. GW: ok, we reached consensus on that SELinux base update -------------------- GW: Anything for selinux Dan. DW: I already talked about playing with cups stuff. there are fixes in tonight's package. we should be releasing trouble shooter by Thursday. The whole idea is to make selinux easy to use. MLS policy issues ----------------- GW: Any mls policy issues. Mike Thompson is one that seems to run into them KW: considering we are heading to deadline, it would be nice to have the policy pieces for networking loaded to the redhat package to have consistency. DW: if anybody needs updates get them to me and I'll get them into beta2 DG: I found issues, if you log in to terminal console, it will not allow you to change password. it needs to be able to edit shadow. DW: should be going for pam to do that, if you get any AVC messages, then please send them to me GW: Also the issue of the mix of 32 and 64 bit packages. This wasn't case in the past, we brought it up with steve, but there was no resolution. Dan you might help there. Seems if you installed, you got both 32 and 64 packages KW: The critical issue is that pam for example has binaries and libraries overwriting each other without warning or check to make sure a complete set is left. DW: ok, I'll get on that. KW: we can have one set of the executors outside of PAM. the pam tally functionality stopped working completely because they use different modules LK: sounds like a good candidate for bugzilla. DW: ok, I'll handle it that way, that will be a bug fix. GW: I'll take action to write bugzilla today. Roles ------ GW: I think those are more crisply defined right now. DW: there is an update where upstream maintainer is working on so that it is an easier to assemble a role. GW: how hard is it now? DW: not too hard, the code is large, and it is a matter if breaking it up. we are making it modular LK: we did have this open issues how to create new roles based on old role. We reached consensus on technical part of solution. IB: we need to make sure we all agree on solution KW: I think we need to involve David O Brian who is updating the security target. LK: We wanted to combine security guide with selinux guide, which sounds like a good idea. GW: so we need to hear back still IB: yes KW: which reminds me, do we have initial documents to go along with the betas. IB: we do have some. I'll talk to him to make sure we have some drafts. I'll make sure to post drafts. MA: one more thing about roles. if we can maybe get something into bash around that, it would be useful for people. GW: I think James Antel was working on that DW: The worked on application to show that, he was working with bash maintainer to get that in. not sure what happend with that. I actually have a bash script to show me what role I am running. it's simple to execute, it executes id -z to show me MA: Ok, it is simple, but if we do it so many times, it would be worth to have it as a script CIPSO ----- PM: not a whole lot since last week, did performance testing, and posted results; consensus was positive. Nobody seemed to complain. VAL: I replied, but there is one number I can't explain. We are chewing resources there, I'm almost positive it's in the loops were we are tearing and putting bitmaps together. PM: I think it is good enough for first round. I'm happy to leave it where it is until I hear anything. I pushed the netdev patch out. I got some comments from James Morris and I put those in and sent it out again. I don't think I'll hear anything since all are busy with kernel summit. The issue is that the ls pp kernel is based on 2.6.17, but the netdev community is expecting it on 2.6.18. GW: hopefully we get a new kernel soon PM: once things settle for a bit, maybe I can maintain two sets of patches for netdev and ls pp. IPsec: MLS, UNIX domain secpeer, xinetd ----------------------------------------- GW: there are patches for IPsec, and it is better . Any word from Venkat. VY: today I have patches out. hasn't heard back from Joy or Fernando about any bugs. they mentioned a udp issue, but haven't heard anything. GW: I believe it was a configuration issue, but Fernando is her FM: yes .. all passed now. you suggested we run tahi, I had some delays caused by setup issues, but they are being run as we speak GW: joy, how is performance testing going? JL: they are going good. Is CIPSO automatically enabled in ls pp. I run on machines with fedcore5, I noticed that when I introduced the fc5 machine, I got msg from cipco, I got message about "admin prohibited" when ever I try to send a package. I am on kernel .44. PM: cipso is enabled by default. JL: when net performance sent that package I immediately got that message from the .44 kernel. PM: you know if there was an ip option set. JL: I didn't, but that is what I was gonna do next PM: ok, look at that and post anything you find out. JL: I didn't realize that CIPSO was enabled. PM: I am not surprised cipso is responsible. JL: I disabled ipsec just to make sure it wasn't what was causing this, and still got the same issue. PM: take a look and see if there are an ip option. GW: so tests have been running and you have not seen problems. JL: I had some base policy changes, and I'll send to Dan to see if they make sense. DW: I got to drop off right now, anything you need added, please send to me in email. ipsec-tools: SPD dump and racoon base + MLS --------------------------------------------- GW: we still need a fix to the SPD dump for the certification, I haven't checked if it made it. Single-user mode ----------------- GW: I meant to remove this Self tests ----------- GW: I'll get back on that. VFS polyinstantiation ---------------------- GW: Janak, anything JD: nothing new, pam namespace is upstream. been playing with loadable policy issues. Concern is that I didn't send anything to cron maintainer, I'll see if someone can ping the person holding on the vixie cron. I emailed him when I heard he is doing it to see if I can help. KW: if pam namespace isn't in rhel5 already, should we do a bugzilla to make sure we don't leave it out. JD: I'll check on that KW: also amtu is missing for rhel5 GW: how do we want to track these issues IB: we can track these issues in bugzilla. GW: ok, so we will be opening bugzillas IB: please keep me update to make sure they are handled. There are 2 more entries, for kernel and user space, also one of ipsec. there are bunch of entries. GW: we will start opening bugzillas, and you want us to CC you on them IB: yes, also if you put in the header ls pp, we can search on that. GW: anything specific for format. IB: I'll just search for keywords in case people don't copy me on bugs. We had a specific kernel feature of concern, we need to get rid of tux on computer. KW: make sure it doesn't get autoloaded CH: there is a kernel module black list, not sure what it is. DG: can't you do something with modprobe, way to turn modules off. IB: as long as they don't have dependencies. KW: also might be nice to disable kernel keyring as a module. GW: that one we may have to permit for admins. KW: We only need bug fixes. GW: it's only a policy changes. Cron, tmpwatch, mail, etc. -------------------------- Kernel features of concern--tux, hypfs --------------------------------------- GW: some of these other features like keyring, config filesystem, we need to keep if users can use them. We need to make decisions about those late breaking features. Is there way to disable tux? there is a module in rhel5 alpha. MA: can you look in /etc to see if there is a modprobe -d. LK: is that a question we have for RH, which packages are gonna be included. GW: we really need to narrow that list of packages down for ls pp. we may want to have separate meeting to go through the package list. GW: we'll exchange mail on this. if we see something missing now we need to keep track of it KW: can you post it (the list) IB: I have to check with project manager. GW: we can maybe exchange it through email. IB: we need to find out who will participate in this discussion. LK: I want it GW: klaus, and me would like to see it too ROB: me too please. IB: ok, I'll see if I can post it LK: when is rhel 5 beta available IB: the freeze is this Thursday. LK: is there a target date? IB: there is, I just don't have a schedule infront of me, but it should be really soon. GW: ok, any more issues? Alright everyone, we'll adjourn. More than 90% complete Remaining tasks


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Doody's Review ServiceReviewer: Paul A. Sobotka, MD (Loyola University Stritch School of Medicine)
Description: This is a pharmaceutical reference designed for the practicing physician. Each drug page includes text on the approved indications, particularly dangerous side effects of the drug or drug class, official contraindications, known drug interactions and adverse effects, and the recommendations of dosing based on the manufacturer's FDA approval and the authors' clinical experience.
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Audience: It is intended for practitioners who prescribe or encounter cardiovascular pharmaceuticals and have need for rapid and reliable information. The presentation of information will facilitate patient care and could eliminate the frequently frustrating efforts to look up drug details in traditional references.
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Assessment: The principal value of this text rests with its novel and unique presentation, which makes it easy for the practicing clinician to access important prescribing information. The authors promise to update the reference text regularly. The value of this text will be significantly modified as the prescribing physician encounters increasing restricted formulary in managed care, and inclusion of "therapeutic exchanges equivalents" may be valuable. Also, as an increasing cadre of physicians use personal computers for patient care, the current presentation could be easily altered into a PC version. This book could certainly be a resource to the busy clinician who needs rapid and convenient pharmaceutical information.

subset: commoncrawl


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Need all the pointers I can get. Critique welcome.
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Need all the pointers I can get. Critique welcome.
Bench is by far my worst lift, but there is like a million things wrong with that. First and foremost, why are you not touching? If you ever plan to compete you need to touch. No sense in practicing a bad habit everytime you're in the gym. Also, you have your feet tucked, but once the weight is in your hands, your feet are wobbly and not firmly into the floor at all. Drive your heels towards the floor through the whole set. Squeeze your shoulders back harder. It looks like after you unrack it, you actually roll your shoulders forward before you start the rep and you should be doing the opposite.
On a positive note, it looked like you were tucking your elbows well.
On pausing: how long should I touch for?
On foot drive: should i point my toes less or from that position drive my heels to the ground?
-Bars not touching
-Feet aren't planted
-Shoulder blades aren't tucked
-Elbows don't look like where they should be to me. You appear to be holding the bar with your palms facing more towards your feet than the ceiling. Kick them back, pinch your shoulder blades tight and your elbows will be where they need to be.
-DO NOT explode so radically that you're hyperextending at the top like you are on the 45x6
-On the 205x3 you're too far away from the bar to be unracking it
Take it all with a grain of salt though, I'm no expert.
The biggest thing I notice is your not dug into the bench your kind of wobbly and your pulling your shoulders out when you un rack the bar. If you watch dave tate teach it on youtube he has the person put their feet on the bench and thrust their hips up to feel the greated pressure in their traps, this is how i set up then i one by one plant each foot keeping that pressure. I still watch the video once a week to make sure everythings ok. As for leg drive being on the ball of your foot is good so long as your driving through your heels, their never gonna touch the ground but the focus needs to be there. Eblows were tucked, I would also open your grip a little and absolutely bring the bar to your chest.
Perhaps I could also experiment with other foot positions...It pains me to not have someone watching these things as I go. Thanks for the help so far, everyone.
As the others have said, touch. Why don't you?
Next, your bar path is tracking totally wrong. The bar path should be straight. It has to do with rotation at your shoulder joint. Your elbows are tracking toward your groin as you lower the bar. They should not be. You are trying to tuck them too much thus making your rotate your shoulders down as you lower the bar.
The biggest thing is touching obviously. Then your form would at least be good enough to pass in a meet as long as you follow the commands.
That being said, to actually improve your form I think alot of what is said above is good advice. To me it does look like you make at least some attempt at arching and setting up with your shoulder blades together, as well as trying to keep your elbows tucked. However, it is far from enough effort put into the setup and staying tight throughout the entire lift (although not optimal it looks much better at the beginning then as you go through the set). You have to put a lot more time and effort into the setup. The most important thing when you work on fixing your form is try to work on one thing at a time and think about doing that one thing the entire training session until you have it right (make sure you can do it right with light weight first before increasing the weight and do not increase the weight past where the form stays good).
Trying different foot positions is not a bad idea. Some people do better with their feet flat and out wide as opposed to on your toes. Neither is wrong, just what works better for you. Usually (for most people) you can get more leg drive with your feet flat, but have to watch out for lifting your butt off the bench, but you can get a better arch when on your toes with your feet tucked under you when done correctly.
Again, thanks to everyone who has replied so far. This is advice I really need.
Watch videos of some really good benchers and compare them to your video. You should be able to see the difference.
Was it Dave Tate that had the nice bench tutorial vids? If I can find the link I'll post it.
The "So you think you can bench" videos? If I had Dave Tate yellin at me "Fuck, I hate this" I think I'd be set. Ha.
Your very loose throughout the entire lift.
Concentrate on getting your whole body tight
Perhaps try a feet spread far out stance
Slide your whole body closer to the bar (so lift off will not pull you out of position)
A guy your size should be able to arch higher. Work on your overall back strength and flexability.
Good Luck
widen your grip a tad bit, then it won't be as easy to tuck your elbows and I think you'll be just right.
when I lay down on the bench I grab the bar and pull my chest up to it. At the same time, I pinch my shoulder blades together and drive my traps into the bar. Afterwards I use my legs to push my ass up and I'm essentially digging my traps even harder into the bench as I'm inching my rear closer to upper back, creating the arch. Once you have that, you ned to pick a foot placement that you can stay strong with, drive off your heels and not push your rear up. Foot placement is personal preference. When you grip the bar, try to pull the bar apart and squeeze the shit out of it. This should keep you tight. I like to push my knees out, flexing my hip flexors to keep my legs tight.
My thoughts on the subject matter.
Thanks. This Friday's session, I did a lot of arm pulling into the bar to emphasize more arch in my back and what pressure I should be feeling on my traps. Wider foot stance seems to feel more comfortable for me, too. Still Rx'ing this whole sha-bang.
All previous comments are great. I think I haven't read that during the heavy set you are flaring your elbows out and protracting a little bit your shoulders. That's because you are not pinching your shoulder blades during all the press.
Also remember that when you unrack the barbell and start the press, your lats should be really tight to stabilize the lowering part of the lift.


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The rate of prescription drug overdose deaths among U.S. women rose 400% between 1999 and 2010, with almost 48,000 deaths, CDC officials reported. While prescription drug overdose deaths were more common among men, the risk to women is catching up, officials said. "The increase in opioid overdoses and opioid overdose deaths is directly proportional to the increase in prescribing," CDC Director Dr. Thomas Frieden said.
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Last post May 30, 2012 02:08 PM by BoekEenHoek
9 Points
May 04, 2012 06:19 AM|arefkarimi|LINK
Hi Guys
We have two web sites. One ASP.NET MVC 3 and .NET 4, one ASP.NET 4 Web Forms (and EpiServer). They reside on two different folders but in IIS, we have an application pool for each. The app. pools are running under Network_Service account and are .NET 4 Integreated.
In IIS, we have created a web site to run the MVC site. Then under that web site we have created a seperate web application to run the web form site. So if the main site is accsessed via http://www.site.com , the web form site is accsessed through http://www.site.com/sub-site.
We have given same machine keys with same encryption type and .NET 2-compatible cookie etc as well as same application names to both sites. Thus when a user logs in to www.site.com, the ticket (authentication cookie) is shared with the other site so the user does not need to login to www.site.com/sub-site and they can use the sub-site.
This perfectly works on several development machines and on the staging server. However it does not work on the production server. Unfortunately we do not have much access to the production server so the debugging process is very frustrating.
I read tens of blog posts and forum discussions such as the two ones below but none helped:
I also put these two lines in the web.config (under <appSettings>) :
<add key="aspnet:UseLegacyEncryption" value="true" />
<add key="aspnet:UseLegacyMachineKeyEncryption" value="true" />
I also set the app. pool user of both app. pools to Net_Work service, unchecked the "Auto Generate Keys" in under IIS/Machine key etc. but still when I try to access /sub-site I am redirected back to the login page.
Can someone please help me with this? Here is the server's configraiton:
IIS: version 8.5.7600
Windows: 2008 RS sp 1 64x
valid ticket
10 Points
May 30, 2012 02:08 PM|BoekEenHoek|LINK
We had the same issue, it was caused by different updates installed on the machines.
About a year ago we had the same issue with another security update on the .net framework see :
And it seems to have happened again with a recent security update, so i bet applying all the updates will fix your issue.


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Replacing SeaCock Gate Valve with Marine Ball Valve
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Maine Sail
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Location: Maine Coast
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If you have..
If you have a gate valve threaded onto a through hull and the through hull does not have a flange you need to replace the whole thing. This is a commom "lazy way" of installing through hulls and is not supported by most insurance surveys and is also not ABYC or Coast Guard recommended.
The problem with buying a through hull, sticking it in the hole with 5200 then threading the nut onto it and then threading the valve, gate or ball, is this. Through hulls are what they refer to as straight thread meaning the threads are NOT tapered like the NPT threads of a gate or ball valve. In most cases you are lucky to get two or three whole turns down the threads of the through hull before it starts moving thus possibly breaking the seal. These threads are NOT meant to be threaded together. The straight threads of a through hull are meant to be threaded onto a flanged sea ****!
A seacock, the proper way of keeping water out, is a tapered valve or a ball vavle as made by either Apollo, Groco or some others who have them made by Apollo or Groco and it has a built in flange. These valves are made from silicon bronze and NOT brass! When installing these you must bolt them directly through the hull with a sufficient backing block. This does two things it gurantees a solid mount that can't be "snapped off" by a heavy item in rough weather, or by lightning and it guarantees that the through hull won't spin, breaking the seal, when you are changing the 1.5 inch odor safe hose attached to it. You are alo NOT dependant on two or three threads when trying to micky mouse a combination of straight threads and NPT threads. If you must use a threaded on ball valve Groco makes a bronze flange with male NPT threads! No one makes a through hull with NPT for a reason!!!
-Maine Sail / CS-36T
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2011 July Orlando Summer FUN Signature US Coin Auction #1157
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Orange County Convention Center
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1913 Indian Five Dollar, Matte PR671913 $5 PR67 NGC. The 1913 gold proof sets debuted in the same year as the Buffalo nickel proofs, but the Mint mostly issued the gold, silver, and minor coinage proof sets separately, along with proof gold singletons as needed. And in any case, the few contemporary collectors of proof gold had apparently tired of the matte proof finish. Only 99 pieces were recorded issued, and it is a good bet that some were melted as unsold, a common Mint practice of the era. The authorities at PCGS estimate that 50 to 65 examples survive today, a good bet given the 21 certified in all grades at PCGS and the 29 at NGC, most of them -- 23 pieces -- falling into the PR66 grade level.
Only One Finer at NGC
Only One Finer at NGC
Garrett and Guth note in the gold reference that the 1913 half eagle has the "same fine sandblast finish seen on the 1912 issue" but more interestingly comment that the "overall rarity of the issue places it as the third-rarest of the eight-coin series."
This piece displays a medium mustard-yellow color that is a bit lighter than most matte proofs of the issue we have seen. It takes extensive perusal with a good loupe to find any flaw in the surfaces, no matter how minuscule, that might serve as pedigree identifiers. And minuscule they are, but at the right angle we find a trio of tiny luster grazes, one on the upper wing of the eagle and two more in the field nearby. They are inconsequential compared to the enormous aesthetic appeal and importance of this historic coin. Matte proof gold is the numismatic connoisseur's caviar, and this upper-end piece may soon disappear from the market for decades, if not from this offering, from a future one. Census: 9 in 67, 1 finer (5/11).(Registry values: N10218) (PCGS# 8544)
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908 W. Main, Bozeman, Montana, 406-587-4039
Mon–Sat 7:30am–10pm, Sun 8am–10pm
Flying C: Mon-Sat 7:30am–8pm, Sun 8am–8pm
Deli: 8am-9pm daily (hot bar open until 8:30 pm)
44 E. Main, Bozeman, Montana, 406-922-2667
Mon–Fri 8am–9pm, Sat 8:30am-8pm, Sun 9:30am–7pm
Say No To Agent Orange Corn
April 24, 2012
From the Center For Food Safety
Dow Chemical is currently requesting an unprecedented approval from United States Department of Agriculture (USDA): a genetically engineered (GE) version of corn that is resistant to 2,4-D, a major component of the highly toxic Agent Orange.
(Find a link to submit your comment to the USDA below.)
Agent Orange was the chemical defoliant used by the U.S. in Vietnam. It caused lasting ecological damage as well as many serious medical conditions in both Vietnamese people and Vietnam veterans.
Exposure to 2,4-D has been linked to major health problems that include cancer (especially non-Hodgkin's lymphoma), lowered sperm counts, liver disease and Parkinson's disease.
A growing body of evidence from laboratory studies show that 2,4-D causes endocrine disruption, reproductive problems, neurotoxicity and immuno-suppression.
Further, industry's own tests show that 2,4-D is contaminated with dioxins, a group of highly toxic chemical compounds that bioaccumulate. This means that even a minute amount can accumulate as it goes up the food chain, causing dangerous levels of exposure. Dioxins in Agent Orange have been linked to many diseases, even including birth defects in children of exposed parents. According to the EPA, 2,4-D is the seventh largest source of dioxins in the U.S.
The USDA approval of Dow's GE corn will trigger a big increase in 2,4-D use – and our exposure to this toxic herbicide. Yet, the department has not assessed how much nor analyzed the resulting impacts on public health, the environment or neighboring farmers (2,4-D is prone to drift and cause damage to nearby crops).
Take Action
Tell USDA to reject 2,4-D resistant GE corn! It only takes 30 seconds. Please send your comment here: Agent Orange Corn.


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Interview by James Baldwin with Quincy Troupe
SOURCE: "The Last Interview," in James Baldwin: The Legacy, edited by Quincy Troupe, Simon and Schuster, 1989, pp. 186-212.
In the following interview, Baldwin discusses his relationships, his writing, other writers, and America.
[Baldwin]: It all comes back now.
[Troupe]: When did you first meet Miles?
Oh, a long time ago, on West Seventy-seventh Street at his house.
What were the circumstances?
I'm trying to remember, I was living on West End Avenue then, early sixties. What was I doing at his home? I hadn't met him, but I admired him very much. But I think I met him before that. Yes, I remember. I first met him in the Village, when he was playing at the Café Bohemia. Then I met him at Club Beverly, on Seventy-fifty Street. But that was a long time ago, too, But, I'm trying to remember what I was doing at Miles's house. I don't remember. Anyway, it was a Sunday afternoon and Miles had invited me, he was having a kind of brunch. So there I was, there in Miles's presence. It was, at first, overwhelming, because I'm really shy. I remember there being a whole lot of people. Miles was at the other end of the room. At first he was upstairs, invisible. Then he was downstairs talking to someone he knew as Moonbeam. Still, he was visible, but barely. Finally he was standing in the room, visible, and so I went over to him. Miles looked like a little boy at the time, he looked about ten. So there I was trying to figure out what to say. Finally I told him how much I like and admired him. I told him I like his music very much and he said something like, "Are you sure?" He kind of smiled. Then he talked with me. Then we sort of knew each other. So the ice had been broken, so that ah, you know, how it is with friends, though I don't know if he thinks of me as a friend. I don't know what other people see. But I could see that there was something in Miles and me which was very much alike. I can see much of myself in Miles. And yet, I don't know what it is, can't explain it, but I think it has something to do with extreme vulnerability.
Extreme vulnerability? In what sense?
First of all, you know, with what we look like, being black, which means that in special ways we've been maltreated. See, we evolve a kind of mask, kind of persona, you know, to protect us from, ah, all these people who are carnivorous and they think you're helpless. Miles does it one way, I do it another.
How do you do it?
I keep people away by seeming not to be afraid of them, by moving fast.
And how does he do it?
In his language, by saying "bitch." Miles said when he saw me signing an autograph, "Why don't you tell the motherfuckers to get lost? What the fuck makes you think I think you can read?" I never saw him very often, but there was always a kind of shorthand between us, that nothing would ever change between us. Like Miles has come to visit me, here in St. Paul on a number of occasions when he's over here in France, playing. And you know Miles doesn't visit people. And even when he visits, he never says much, he doesn't say anything. Not all the time, however; it depends on how the spirit moves him.
So he just shows.
He just shows up here, knocks at the door. Sometimes he calls, but he may just show.
When was the last time?
A couple of summers ago.
He called and said, "I'm coming."
No. I think what happened, he was staying in Nice, so his French manager called and asked me to come and have dinner and cocktails. It was a nice night. And afterwards, he came back here.
He came out here?
Yeah. We sat around and talked about nothing.
You think he came because he feels safe with you.
Yeah. We talked about nothing and everything and we would have a little sip and we would talk about whatever. But I do the same with some people I know.
Why do you think he feels this way with you, since he's afraid of writers?
I don't think Miles thinks of me as a writer. He knows I'm a writer, but he doesn't look at me that way. He doesn't look at me that way at all. I think he thinks of me as a brother, you know? In many ways I have the same difficulty as he has, in terms of the private and public life. In terms of the legend. It's difficult to be a legend. It's hard for me to recognize me. You spend a lot of time trying to avoid it. A lot of the time I've been through so many of the same experiences Miles has gone through. It's really something, to be a legend, unbearable. I could see it had happened to Miles. Again, it's unbearable, the way the world treats you is unbearable, and especially if you're black.
What is that?
It's unbearable because time is passing and you are not your legend, but you're trapped in it. Nobody will let you out of it. Except other people who know what it is. But very few people have experienced it, know about it, and I think that can drive you mad; I know it can. It had a terrible effect on him and it had a terrible effect on me. And you don't see it coming.
You don't see it coming? Explain why?
No way to see it.
How do you realize it?
You have to be lucky. You have to have friends. I think at bottom you have to be serious. No one can point it out to you; you have to see it yourself. That's the only way you can act on it. And when it arrives it's a great shock.
To find out?
It's a great shock to realize that you've been so divorced. So divorced from who you think you are—from who you really are. Who you think you are, you're not at all. The only thing is that Miles has got his horn and I've got my typewriter. We are both angry men.
I want to ask you what you were trapped in and how did you come to see it. I mean, did you come through friends?
I know what you're saying but it's hard to answer, it's hard.
I know it's hard.
I don't know how to answer that.
But you saw yourself trapped?
I saw myself trapped. I think it happened to Miles, too.
What did you think you were, before you knew?
Ah, that's even more interesting. I don't know who I thought I was. I was a witness, I thought. I was a very despairing witness, though too. What I was actually doing was trying to avoid a certain estrangement, perhaps, an estrangement between myself and my generation. It was virtually complete, the estrangement was, in terms of what I might have thought and expected—my theories. About what I might have hoped—I'm talking now in terms of one's function as an artist. And the country itself being black and trying to deal with that.
Why do you think it occurred. That estrangement between you generation and the country?
Well, because I was right. That's a strange way to put it.
That's not strange, at least not to me.
I was right. I was right about what was happening in the country. What was about to happen to all of us really, one way or the other. And the choices people would have to make. And watching people make them and denying them at the same time. I began to feel more and more homeless in terms of the whole relationship between France and me and America, and me has always been a little painful, you know. Because my family's in America I will always go back. It couldn't have been a question in my mind unless it absolutely really came to that. But in the meantime you keep the door open and the price of keeping the door open was to actually be, in a sense, victimized by my own legend. You know, I was trying to tell the truth and it takes a long time to realize that you can't—that there's no point in going to the mat, so to speak, no point in going to Texas again. There's no point in saying this again. It's been said, and it's been said, and it's been said. It's been heard and not heard. You are a broken motor.
A broken motor?
Yes. You're a running motor and you're repeating, you're repeating, you're repeating, and it causes a breakdown, lessening of will power. And sooner or later your will gives out, it has to. You're lucky if it is a physical matter. Most times it's spiritual. See, all this involves hiding from something else—not dealing with how lonely you are. And of course, at the very bottom it involves the terror of every artist confronted with what he or she has to do, you know, the next work. And everybody, in one way or another, and to some extent, tries to avoid it. And you avoid it more when you get older than you do when you're younger; still there's something terrifying about doing the work. Something like that. But it happened to Miles sooner than it happened to me. I think for me it was lucky that it was physical, because it could have been mental.
It could have been mental?
Yes. It could have been mental debilitation instead of my present physical one. I prefer the physical to the mental. Does that make sense?
It makes good sense, it makes fantastic sense. Now let me ask you something else. Now with Miles, you both were born close to each other?
Just about. I think I'm a year older. I was born in '24.
He was born in '26. So then, probably both of you, black men, geniuses, born close together, probably see the world very similar—you through your typewriter and him through his horn. Both vulnerable. So when you met you were brothers because you expected to meet each other or were you looking for each other?
Yes. We were looking for each other. Neither he nor I would have said it that way but we were; we knew that the moment we saw each other.
You were hoping?
Oh yes. That's why I was watching him before he watched me, you know.
But he knew you.
He knew about me. Yes.
He knew you when he saw you.
There's no question about that at all. We knew each other at once.
That's wonderful.
Yes it is, discovering someone very much like yourself. It was wonderful.
And that's a wonderful connection. Because he's also estranged somewhat from his musical generation.
He has to be, at least it makes sense to me that he would be, because he's always trying to be on the cutting edge of his art. That's certainly true for me.
In the windows of your eyes, you and Miles remind me of each other. It's a certain distinctive juju.
Shit. I love that.
It's a certain distinctive juju that in Miles you recognize and you see a face that you have not seen before. And when I look at you and since I've always looked at you, I've always felt that. A certain juju, witch doctor, priest, high priest look of timelessness or representative of a certain tribe, point of view, mysticism, magic.
That would cover my father certainly. He was not really my father, because I was born out of wedlock, but that's the difference, my father. He did give me something. Don't you see, he taught me how to fight. He taught me how to fight. But it would be better to say he taught me what to fight for. I was only fighting for safety, or for money at first. Then I fought to make you look to me. Because I was not born to be what someone said I was. I was not born to be defined by someone else, but by myself, and myself only.
So when you were younger, you didn't have the pen as a weapon, as a defense, a shield. How did you fight then?
Any way I could.
What would you do?
It's hard to remember. The pulpit was part of it, but that came later.
Before the pulpit.
It was the streets.
How did you fight? Any way you could?
Well, if you wanted to beat me up, okay. And, say, you were bigger than I was, you could do it, you could beat me, but you gonna have to do it every day.
Every day? Because you would fight to the death.
You'd have to beat me up every single day. So then the question becomes which one of us would get tired first. And I knew it wouldn't be me.
You would always fight.
Oh, yes, indeed. So then the other persons would have to begin to think, and to be bugged by this kid he had to beat up every day. And some days perhaps he just didn't feel like doing it. But he would have to, yeah, because he said he was going to do it. So then come beat me up. But of course something happened to him, something has to happen to him—because someone beating someone else up is not so easy either. Because I would be standing in the schoolyard with a lead pipe as a deterrent. So, you know, eventually, it was just too dangerous. People began to leave me alone. Some of the big boys who were my friends got together and decided that they had to protect me, you know? So after that I was really protected. Because it was funny to them after a while. But that's what happened. That was the beginning of it and then later on it was cops, you know. It became just a nightmare. Especially cops. I knew that they knew that I was seven or eight or nine and they were just having fun with me. They wanted me to beg. And I couldn't beg, so I got my ass kicked. But I learned a lot, a lot about them. I learned there were very few who were humane; they just wanted you to say what they wanted you to say. They wanted to be confirmed in something by you. By your face, by your terror of them.
What about the pulpit, the idea of the pulpit? Would you talk about it as an idea?
That's a very complex idea really. I joined the Church, but my joining it was very complex, though I meant it, the purely religious part that is, the spiritual part. In a way that was very important to me, that whole time in the pulpit, because it gave me a kind of distance that was kind of respected; that was a reason I was in the pulpit, to put distance between people and myself. I began to see my people, so to speak, both ethnically and otherwise. And in the time that I was in the pulpit I learned a lot about my father. And later on, I thought, perhaps, I'd moved into the pulpit in order to arrest him. Because I thought that he had to be arrested, had to be stopped. He was having a terrible effect on everybody in the family. I could go as far as to say I thought he was crazy. But I knew with myself and the pulpit I cut a lot of his power. He couldn't fight me in that arena. He fought me, but he couldn't fight me in that arena. And I say during that time that it taught me a lot about him and myself and about the people who were in the congregation, whom I couldn't lie to. And that was why I left the pulpit.
Is that where you started to learn about the truth? I mean you knew about the truth when you were talking about when you knew you weren't going to give in.
I couldn't.
So then in the pulpit you learned another truth. And in the writing you take it …
I knew that was where I had to go. That I was not going to become another fat preacher, you know? I was not going to, ah, lie to my congregation. I was not allowed to do that. I couldn't believe in what I had anymore. I didn't believe in the Christian Church anymore, not the way I had; I no longer believed in its spirituality, its healing powers.
Oh? Was it the Christian Church that disturbed you?
The way people treated each other. In the Church and outside, but especially in the Church.
How did they treat each other?
Well, they were so self-righteous. They didn't come with real deep love, for example. The people in the Church were very cruel about many things.
How old were you when you were involved in the Church?
Fourteen, fifteen.
Okay. I want you now to talk about two extraordinary women that your brother David told me about. Jeanne Fauré, who used to own the house you live in now, and Tintine. I want you, at first, if you can, to talk to me about how you came to this house. And how you came to receive the medal of honor.
Oh, that's a long story.
I know. But can you talk about it, if you can, how she came to accept you, why she accepted you, and what it was that you saw in each other?
I came here to St. Paul in 1970. It was Malcolm X's and Martin Luther King's death really. After Martin's death I sort of wandered and indeed didn't know where to go. I was in Turkey for a while, then I ended up here. I didn't want to leave; I had to. I ended up across the street from this house in a hotel. I came in the wintertime, nineteen years ago. Anyway, I and a friend of mine came down to St. Paul from Paris. We didn't have anything because it was terribly expensive at the hotel and so we settled here because at the time it also served as a roominghouse. Later I got sick, you know, and much of my family came over to see me. I rented almost all of the house. So I thought why not buy it. It was forty-three, forty-six thousand and I had been very ill so I didn't know how much longer I had to live. So I bought it. But Madame Fauré had offered to sell it to me.
This was earlier?
Yes. When I first came, nineteen-some odd years ago.
What was wrong with you, can you remember what was the illness?
Nobody knew. Nobody knew. But anyway, I needed some money to buy the house. That occupied me for a while that occupied me considerably. But I was just busy working. And I got to know Jeanne Fauré, who was a very strange lady, solitary, very strange.
How would you describe her strangeness?
In her solitude. She was a kind of legend, she was very old, you know, quite. And anyway, she and I had very little in common, it seemed to me, except I liked her very much. She was a refugee from Algeria, raised in Algeria, I believe, and then the French had to leave. And she was very bitter about that. That meant we had very little in common politically. And very little in common in what I could see in any other way. And yet there was something else beneath that made her my friend. She decided to sell the house to me; she refused to sell it to anybody else.
She decided to sell the house to you? Why do you think she picked you? Do you know to this day?
Was it spiritual?
I wasn't the best candidate; in fact, I was the worst. Something in her, I don't know. We also had a very stormy relationship.
Politically speaking we did. In many other ways we did, too. She knew something I didn't know. She knew about Europe, she knew about civilization, she knew about responsibility. A million things that I as an American would not know, that were alien to me. And I was very slow to learn these things. In fact, it was a very expensive lesson, one that I haven't learned entirely just yet. But she was a valuable kind of guide and a kind of protection. And Tintine Roux was the old lady that ran La Colombe D'Or, which is a world-famous restaurant and inn. She became my guardian. I never lived in a small town before, which is not so easy, and she protected me. I could come in and have lunch at her restaurant. And I didn't realize it at first, that she had picked herself to be my protector.
What do you think she saw in you?
I don't know.
What do you think?
I knew Tintine liked me. Still she must have thought I was crazy, you know, at least a little strange, in any event. But both these women liked me. It was as thought they recognized where I came from. That I was a peasant, and I am. But I've only found this out over time.
Why do you say that?
I'm a peasant because of where I really come from, you know. My background, my father, my mother, the line. Something of the peasant must be in all of my family. And that's where Madame Fauré and Tintine come from, too. And the color of my skin didn't add into it at all. Both these women were watching something else besides my color. And they protected me and loved me. They're both dead now and I miss them both terribly. Because with Jeanne I truly learned a lot from her, from her European optic in regard to others; but she also had an optic that came from Algeria. What I liked about it was that she was willing to be my guide; willing and unwilling: in fact, she was a hard guide. But mostly she was willing. And so it seemed like she was my guide to something else.
To a way of life, to a potential civilization she had seen only from a height.
Didn't they know about your fame?
No, not really. They'd heard of me. But beyond that, nothing.
You were comfortable with that.
Yes. Because my fame did not get in the way because by the time they knew it didn't make any difference. It was just one more aspect of this crazy kid. That's the best way to put it. They were my guides, and they were very good guides.
David told me a story about an incident that happened when her brother died, and Madame Fauré picked you to be at the head of the funeral procession.
He told you that? Well, she was the last of kin and she made me lead her brother Louis's funeral procession. Yes she did. She put her arm in mine and I had to lead. I had to. It was an incredible scene. I had to lead the funeral procession with her or she with me. It was fascinating.
I think it's a great image. Tell me about it. How did you feel?
I was in a state of shock. I didn't know what to do. And of course the people of St. Paul were shocked, too. This was in either 1974 or '75. But I was in a state of shock. I didn't quite know what to think; in fact, the town was in a state of shock.
What was the reason?
Well, they knew who I was by then, of course, but they couldn't understand why I was representing the family. When we were at the cemetery everybody had to say goodbye to me, too. Because I was standing there with her at the head of the family, under the gates of the cemetery. Because what it meant, symbolically speaking, is that I was the next in line, when she died. That's what it meant.
Do you think that could have happened in America?
I can't imagine where. I really cannot imagine where.
So in a sense that was a comforting, human experience. A remarkable spiritual connection, bond.
A very great thing, very great. At least for me. I want to write about it one day. Yes, sometime I'll have to talk about it.
When you received the Legion of Honor of France? Who did you take with you to the ceremony?
David came over. Jeanne Fauré was there and my housekeeper Valerie was there too.
Why did you pick them?
Because they had seen me through so much and I'd promised to take Jeanne and Valerie to Paris one day. Jeanne had been to Paris but she hadn't been there for a long time. I thought that would be nice for her to go. So I took them and because I owed it to them, but especially to Jeanne Fauré. Because she'd seen me through.
And how did she feel?
She was very proud. She didn't say anything to me; she never said much to me about it. But I could see it—how proud she was—in her face, in her eyes.
What year was this?
Last year, 1986.
Was that right before she died?
Yes. She died in the winter of 1987.
What month was that?
I received the award in June, and she died in January 1987.
And how did you feel with her being there?
I was very pleased. It was very nice. It was something that gave her a great pleasure and that meant a lot to me.
I thought that was a great story when he told me. I said I was definitely going to ask you about that. Because I thought that was fundamentally fantastic and so fundamentally, in a sense, spiritually right; but it's something which you don't expect to happen.
No, you don't, not at all.
Who gave you the award?
The president, the president of France, François Mitterrand. The ceremony was at the Élysée in Paris.
What other people received the award that year?
Leonard Bernstein, Leonard Bernstein and me. It was a very nice ceremony, very nice.
Okay. Let's change the subject and talk about some writers. What is your opinion of Amiri Baraka?
I remember the first time I met Amiri Baraka, who was then Le Roi Jones. I was doing The Amen Corner and he was a student at Howard University. I liked him right away. He was a pop-eyed little boy, a poet. He showed me a couple of his poems. I liked them very much. And then he came to New York a couple of years later. He came to New York when I came back to New York from Paris. And by this time I knew the business. I'd been through the fucking business by that time. I was a survivor. And I remember telling him that his agent wanted him to become the young James Baldwin. But I told him, "You're not the young James Baldwin. There's only one James Baldwin and you are Le Roi Jones and there's only one Le Roi Jones. Don't let them run this game on us, you know? You're Le Roi Jones, I'm James Baldwin. And we're going to need each other." That's all I said. He didn't believe it then but time took care of that.
He believes it now?
Yes, he knows it now.
What person has hurt you the most recently?
Ishmael Reed.
Because he is a great poet and it seemed to be beneath him, his anger and his contempt for me, which were both real and not real. He ignored me for so long and then he called me a cocksucker, you know what I mean? It's boring. But I always did say he was a great poet, a great writer. But that does not mean I can put up with being insulted by him every time I see him, which I won't.
What do you think about Toni Morrison?
Toni's my ally and it's really probably too complex to get into. She's a black woman writer, which in the public domain makes it more difficult to talk about.
Have you read Beloved?
Not yet. She sent it to me but I haven't read it yet.
What do you think are her gifts?
Her gift is in allegory. Tar Baby is an allegory. In fact all her novels are. But they're hard to talk about in public. That's where you get in trouble because her books and allegory are not always what it seems to be about. I was too occupied with my recent illness to deal with Beloved. But in general she's taken a myth, or she takes what seems to be a myth, and turns it into something else. I don't know how to put this—Beloved could be about the story of truth. She's taken a whole lot of things and turned them upside down. Some of them—you recognize the truth in it. I think that Toni's very painful to read.
Because it's always or most times a horrifying allegory; but you recognize that it works. But you don't really want to march through it. Sometimes people have a lot against Toni, but she's got the most believing story of everybody—this rather elegant matron, whose intentions really are serious and, according to some people, lethal.
I remember you saying that Alex Haley's Roots had another title. What was it called first?
It was called Before the Anger. But let me change the subject and just say this. It's very important for white Americans to believe their version of the black experience. That's why they have white and black commentators telling all those lies about us. You see, it's very important for the nigger to suffer. Therefore, they, white people, can feel guilty. Therefore, they can do something about it in their own good time. Let me again explain further. Once, after I published Go Tell It on the Mountain and Giovanni's Room, my publisher, Knopf, told me I was a "Negro writer" and that I "reached a certain audience." So, they told me, "you cannot afford to alienate that audience. This new book will ruin your career because you're not writing about the same things and in the same manner as you were before and we won't publish this book as a favor to you."
As a favor to you?
So I told them fuck you. My editor, whose name I won't mention here, is dead now, poor man. Later on, Bennett Cerf and I tangled too, but that was about a Christmas boycott of books we were planning.
So what did they say after you told them "fuck you"?
I told them I needed a boat ticket. So I took a boat to England with my book and I sold it in England before I sold it in America. You see whites want black writers to mostly deliver something as if it were an official version of the black experience. But the vocabulary won't hold it, simply. No true account really of black life can be held, can be contained in the American vocabulary. As it is, the only way that you can deal with it is by doing great violence to the assumptions on which the vocabulary is based. But they won't let you do that. And when you go along, you find yourself very quickly painted into a corner; you've written yourself into a corner. Because you can't compromise as a writer. By the time I left America in 1948 I had written myself into a corner as I perceived it. The book reviews and the short essays had led me to a place where I was on a collision course totally with the truth; it was the way I was operating. It was only a matter of time before I'd simply be destroyed by it. And no amount of manipulation of vocabulary or part would have spared me. It's like I think that Al Murray and Ralph Ellison are totally trapped. It's sad, because they're both trapped in the same way, and they're both very gifted writers. Ralph certainly, and Al, I thought. But you can't do anything with America unless you are willing to dissect it. You certainly cannot hope to fit yourself into it; nothing fits into it, not your past, not your present. The Invisible Man is fine as far as it goes until you ask yourself who's invisible to whom? You know, what is this dichotomy supposed to do? Are we invisible before each other? And invisible why, and by what system can one hope to be invisible? I don't know how anything in American life is worthy of this sacrifice. And further, I don't see anything in American life—for myself—to aspire to. Nothing at all. It's all so very false. So shallow, so plastic, so morally and ethically corrupt.
We were talking once about the claustrophobia among writers. You said you prefer actors and painters to writers.
Yes. Well, first of all when I was coming up there weren't any writers that I knew. Langston Hughes was far away. The first writer I met was Richard Wright and he was much older than me. And the people I knew were people like Beauford Delaney and the women who hung out with him; it was a whole world that was not literary. That came later; then it wasn't literary. It came later in Paris, with Sartre and others. But there was something else. And in Paris it had nothing whatsoever to do with race for one thing. It was another kind of freedom there altogether. It had nothing to do with literature. But we can't talk about that. But when I looked back on it years and years later, looked back at myself on the American literary scene, I could see that what almost happened to me was an attempt to make myself fit in, so to speak, to wash clean for the American literary academy.
You mean they wanted you scrubbed and squeaky clean?
Exactly. You have to be scrubbed and squeaky clean and then there's nothing left of you. Let me tell you a story. When Ralph Ellison won the National Book Award in 1953 for Invisible Man, I was up for it the next near, in 1954, for Go Tell It on the Mountain. But at the time I was far from scrubbed. I didn't win. Then, years later, someone who was on the jury told me that since Ralph won it the year before they couldn't give it to a Negro two years in a row. Now, isn't that something?
A judge told you that? Can you tell us his name?
No, I wouldn't want to do that.
Okay. Do you have any comments on Norman Mailer?
Well the answer to that question is very short and very simple. Not simple, but short. Norman decided not to be a writer. He decided to be a celebrity instead and that's what he is now. Now let me tell you a story about Norman. Out of my father's first marriage there is a sister and a couple of sons, you know, a few sons. My sister had a brother who lives in California. He's a senior citizen now. But he lived with Norman Mailer when Norman was writing The White Negro. He was taking the pages out of Norman's typewriter, changing his clothes—they wore the same clothes, exchanged cars, and his car was better than Norman's at the time. He was like the second husband in a way. They lived together. They lived close together. Norman doesn't know I know this. No one knows this. This story took place in the forties, the early forties, in California. I've kept quiet about this all these years that Norman was living with one of my step-brothers when he wrote the book. No one knows it, though. You're the first one, outside of the family, that I have mentioned it to. His name is Osby Mitchell. Osby did something in show business, hung out with Frank Sinatra, Charlie Chaplin, that crowd.
Okay. That's something. Now, what do you think of the great praise you have received in France for Just Above My Head, that it has gotten in translation. How does that make you feel?
As you know the French call the book Harlem Quartet. I don't know how to answer that, Quincy, because it was written here almost ten years ago. It was the hardest book I'd ever written until then.
I had to face my own legends, too.
Which were?
It had something to do about my brothers, my relationship to my brothers. And that implied relationship to my whole life really. The key to one's life is always in a lot of unexpected places. I tried to deal with what I was most afraid of. That's why the vehicle of the book is music. Because music was and is my salvation. And when the book was done, I was glad it was over. It got the usual stormy reception in America, but by that time I was used to it. In any case, by that time I was in a different kind of trouble altogether. The reception of Harlem Quartet here in France didn't mean as much as it might have meant if I had gotten the praise earlier. I never thought I'd see the book again. But its translation came about after my book on the Atlanta murders was published here in France. It was hard to get the Atlanta book published in America for complex and political reasons.
Can you talk about them?
I don't quite know what they are. It's difficult for me to talk about a book that involves a possible lawsuit. It's just another example of American business, the ways in which Americans, the American publishers, attempt to control and to demolish the American writer, regardless of color, but especially a black one. I had to fight that, so I brought the book here. And it was published by Stock. And it did better than anyone thought it would do in France. So Stock already had a contract for Just Above My Head (Harlem Quartet). And so they published it. Stock had gone through all kinds of publishing problems—it had gone through a breakup and a reorganization. The Atlanta book won a couple of awards, and a German writer and I won the Human Rights Award of France two years ago, in 1985. But the German writer, poor man, had to leave Germany. Anyway, behind all of this came this book Just Above My Head, or Harlem Quartet. And I think that the French for the first time really looked at my writing; the Atlanta book was something of a shock to them.
Because it demolishes, so to speak, the American myth of integration, you know, by using Atlanta, which is supposed to be the model of integration in the Deep South and exposes it for what it is; shit, you know? So the French reader goes through all of that in terms of those twenty-eight dead black children. And so it was a shock, you know. And it sort of set up, I don't know what, exactly, but it did set up expectations, or fears, whatever for the novel. It may have set up an audience for the novel. And so Just Above My Head turns out to be somewhat of a revelation for the French. So you know, I'm considered somewhat of an intellectual in Paris. I mean in France. For a black writer, you know? Essentially as an essayist. But the novel was a great revelation; it gave me another kind of reputation altogether. Because now, instead of an essayist, what they saw in me was a novelist. I'm much better known as an essayist in France and elsewhere, too, than I am as a novelist. Before, the translation of my novels in France have been so bad. But this was a good translation, a marvelous translation, which makes a tremendous difference. And the subject, my handing of the subject, they liked. So it's simply a matter of something happening at the right time, and that can never be foreseen, you know.
What's the award Harlem Quartet is up for now?
The best foreign novel published in France, the Prix Femina. We will know about that in a week.
Let me ask you about the difficulty the American press and critics might have had in getting into your fiction.
Well, probably the American legend of black life. It's one thing to be aware of a Miles Davis and quite another thing to know where he comes from and what sustains him. Hollywood should be sued for libel, it's true. So that the book, my book, and others come as a direct opposition of the myth by Americans of black life and black music. It's not like what they, the press and critics, say it is, not at all. But the books prove them wrong, so they ignore the books. You see what I mean? Like I very much liked the film 'Round Midnight, which is a very important film. It fills in something that is important in our lives, a gap that was once there, that one might have thought about but didn't know about.
Why do you say it's important?
Well, first of all the personality of Dexter Gordon, he gives at least a reading of what happens to the musician. The black musician inside the music industry in Paris, you know? The ruin that they met which they brought with them and which wasn't brought about by Paris.
You mean the black musicians brought the ruin with them?
Yes, that's precisely what I mean. And 'Round Midnight makes that point in some ways very clearly.
Can you talk about the neglect of the black painter Beauford Delaney?
That's hard to do because people are still lying about Beauford. Let's talk about that over supper.
Okay. You said something to me once about how people shouldn't be jealous of someone's success. Do you recall that?
Well, what I was really trying to say was that people don't know what it is sometimes to be very successful. Don't know what it is. What I meant to say was that you can't be jealous of somebody else's success because you have no idea what it means, you know? It looks like success to you, but you're not the one that's paying for it.
And there's a price?
Of course there's a price, are you kidding? It's definitely not easy. It's rough. But for most great black writers in general, "they"—meaning white and black Americans—won't read us until they have nothing else to read.
Why do you think that is?
Well, because of the entire way of American life, the marrow of the American bone. Now today it's a fait accompli. There's nothing to be done about it. The whole American optic in terms of reality is based on the necessity of keeping black people out of it. We are nonexistent. Except according to their terms, and their terms are unacceptable.
Let me ask you this, since you said that. How do you look at the American society as it was during Dr. King's time and now? Any changes? Do you think it is worse, or what?
Certainly, in my opinion, it's worse. I'm not sure it's the society, I don't know what it is now.
What do you think that Ronald Reagan represents to white America?
Ronald Reagan represents the justification of their history, their sense of innocence. He means the justification of Birth of a Nation. The justification, in short, of being white.
How do you think white Americans feel now that they're in this economic crisis?
They're not thinking about it.
They're not thinking about it. Americans don't think of such things. They try and get out of it. They hope it'll go away. And luckily they began to realize that maybe Reagan has to go, too. But they hope it all goes away. Because it's like a bad dream for them.
Won't they do anything to help it go away?
No. Because they don't know how. They don't know how they got into it or, worse, won't recognize how. I don't know. They don't know how they got into the chaos of their cities, for example. But they did it. Now how and why did they do it? They did it because they wanted their children to be safe, to be raised safely. So they set up their communities so that they wouldn't have to go to school with black children, whom they fear, and that dictates the structure of their cities, the chaos of their cities and the danger in which they live.
"They" being white.
"They" being white and their believing that they're white. But they did it; niggers didn't do it. They did it. Inch by inch, stone by stone, decree by decree. Now their kids are deeply lost and they can't even blame it now on the nigger, you know what I mean?
That's what happened, I don't care who says what. I watched it happen, I know because I watched it happen. And all this, because they want to be white. And why do they want to be white? Because it's the only way to justify the slaughter of the Indians and enslaving the blacks—they're trapped. And nothing, nothing will spring the trap, nothing. Now they're really trapped because the world is present. And the world is not white and America is not the symbol of civilization. Neither is England. Neither is France. Something else is happening which will engulf them by and by. You, Quincy, will be here, but I'll be gone. It's the only hope the world has, that the notion of the supremacy of Western hegemony and civilization be contained.
Do you have any feelings about yuppies?
I saw them coming. I knew them. They can't, I'm afraid, be taught anything.
You don't think they can be taught anything?
No. Because you can't be taught anything if you think you know everything already, that something else—greed, materialism, and consuming—is more important to your life. You know, I taught the yuppies before they were called yuppies. And then what happened to them, really? Perfectly sound young men came out of college, went to work for Nixon, and were hardened criminals on Wall Street before you knew it. Now, is it true or not?
It's true.
And here I've only mentioned Nixon. But it's true for Reagan, too. So that's that. It's the fiber of the nation, unfortunately.
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