text:
Money for empties
Container deposit schemes operate in many parts of the world, in SA, and soon in the NT. Why will some firms go to great lengths to prevent them? Politicians often fear the financial and strategic might of big business - even when it's about who picks up the drink can or the beer bottles. Reporter Di Martin.
UPDATE: The Federal Court rules that the NT deposit scheme is illegal after Coca Cola Schweppes and Lion joined forces to fight the scheme. ABC News Online 4 March 2013.
Supporting Information
Di Martin: Hello, listeners. I'm Di Martin and it's time to buckle up for this week's Background Briefing.
It's show time in the Top End. At the Royal Darwin Show, punters enjoy all the usual stomach-turning rides, exhibits and the chance to win in sideshow alley.
But there's a new attraction this year. The kids can stand on tippy toes and feed their empty drink bottles into a brand new recycling machine. Craig Ingram is on hand to explain how the machine works.
Craig Ingram: The container's inserted in behind the stainless steel doors and it's got an entry slot. It takes the container in, and that sound there is it's crushing, compressing it. So you don't need too large of an area to store the crushed containers.
Di Martin: Craig Ingram works for the Environment Department, which is using this machine at the show to promote a whole new recycling system for the Northern Territory.
Craig Ingram: It's really a prop to make sure people know that the container deposit scheme is coming. It's a bit of noise and it's a bit of colour, a bit of movement.
Di Martin: A container deposit scheme; it's something like the old Cash for Cans program, except you don't just get the value of the aluminium or the glass. From next year, Territorians will pay an upfront deposit of 10 cents when they buy a drink, and then get that 10 cents refunded when they bring the container back—like the system in South Australia. It's being introduced to deal with the Territory's woeful recycling record and legendary litter problem.
At the show for Background Briefing is reporter Iskhandar Razak. He asked the local punters what they think of the new Cash for Containers scheme.
Man: It'll work great.
Iskandar Razak: You reckon you and your family might be recycling in the future, collecting cans for the 10 cents a can?
Man: I think so, yeah definitely. Like I live out in a community and I think it would be good out there as well. A lot of people out there; a lot of rubbish—I reckon people will get involved in it, try and collect the money, especially the young kids; they'll enjoy it.
Woman: I think it's great. You know, we live in the rural area, so the accessibility for recycling for us has been pretty much nil.
Iskandar Razak: What do you think of the general idea of the 10 cents back for every can that you recycle? Is that a good idea?
Woman: It is. It can be that added incentive for other people, as well, which will just get them into the mode of doing more recycling.
Woman: I support it all the way. They've been doing cash for containers where I'm from in Canada for several years and I think it's excellent. And I think it's a good incentive to offer people the 10 cents for every can they recycle.
Di Martin: Polls in the Territory echo most of those taken across Australia. We love the idea of a Cash for Containers scheme; approval ratings of 90 per cent and above in some cases. Each year we buy about 12 billion drink containers, but we chuck about half of those empties into the rubbish or out the window. Studies show the Cash for Containers scheme is the most effective way of improving that record.
The Northern Territory government ran a media campaign to promote the scheme, even buying the rights to a song as a kind of call to arms; a song called, 'I Like Collecting Bottles and Cans'.
(Excerpt from the song)
So the punters are keen, the government wants it, but the Northern Territory has just gone through a bruising fight to introduce this seemingly straightforward recycling system. There have been claims of political manipulation and allegations of lying and deception on both sides of the debate over the real cost of the scheme.
So who is the Territory government opposing? A coalition of business interests led by the multi-billion dollar beverage industry.
Across Australia and for three decades, Cash for Containers schemes have been fiercely opposed by this industry. Government might write the law, but it's companies like Coca Cola and Lion Nathan that are forced to pay for the Cash for Containers scheme. They must refund 10 cents for every container returned.
Coca Cola's Alec Wagstaff says industry objects because there's a cheaper, better option available: more recycling bins in public places.
Alec Wagstaff: It's absolutely very simple; it's placing recycling infrastructure within arm's reach of consumption.
Di Martin: What does that mean?
Alec Wagstaff: Putting a bin near where you drink your drink, a recycling bin with a waste bin.
Di Martin: So you're talking about a dual bin system.
Alec Wagstaff: Exactly.
Di Martin: Alec Wagstaff is also head of the Packaging Stewardship Forum. It's helping to fund more recycling bins in public places like shopping malls and airports.
A key environmental group says it has nothing against more recycling bins, but the Boomerang Alliance says Cash for Containers does a far better job. Jeff Angel is national convenor of the Boomerang Alliance. He says companies like Coca Cola hate being forced into being responsible for their own discarded containers.
Jeff Angel: Coke has been, at a worldwide level, one of the biggest opponents of container deposit systems. They do seem to have an ideological bent against it.
Di Martin: What do you mean, 'an ideological bent against it'?
Jeff Angel: They seem to think that it's some sort of attack on the freedom to consume. They really don't like the regulatory component of a container deposit system and that's the experience of other campaigners around the world. Coke is out there, up front, opposing a container deposit system with all the resources it can muster.
Di Martin: A major campaign was run in the Northern Territory to oppose Cash for Containers. The campaign failed and the scheme will begin early next year.
But industry has revealed to Background Briefing that it plans to challenge the scheme in court. From the Packaging Stewardship Forum, here's Alec Wagstaff.
Alec Wagstaff: On the basis that we believe it breeches the Mutual Recognition Act, and that's an act that says basically if a product's legal to sell in one state, it's legal to sell in another state.
Di Martin: Each time a container deposit system is investigated by a state or territory, the beverage industry leads the fight against it. In the process, the industry has been accused of wielding their power and wealth to unfair advantage over public policy.
Including this allegation from a Western Australian shadow minister: John Hyde was part of the previous Carpenter Labor government. He says lobbyists working for the beverage industry raised the suggestion of campaigning against sitting Labor members unless the government dropped its support for a container deposit scheme. Here's John Hyde:
John Hyde: I think as we both know with the work of lobbyists that they're most effective when they do target marginal seats. I was certainly aware that before our 2005 campaign and our 2008 campaign that associates of the beverage industry and associates of those opposed to container deposit were intimating that they would be looking very strongly at campaigning against the re-election of a government that was supporting container deposit—which was the Labor government—or an opposition—which was the Liberal opposition—if they were going to be supporting container deposit.
Di Martin: John Hyde, now Western Australia's shadow Arts Minister. Background Briefing put this allegation to Alec Wagstaff, head of the Packaging Stewardship Forum.
Alec Wagstaff: I have no knowledge of that whatsoever.
Di Martin: Alec Wagstaff went on to strongly deny any such campaign had been waged.
Alec Wagstaff: I find that suggestion outrageous. It's sort of a conspiracy theory gone to a new element. We debate public policy in the forums that public policy should be debated. From time to time that involves advertising—absolutely—about putting of our positions. But in terms of targeted campaigns against particular seats, absolutely that has never happened.
Di Martin: Alec Wagstaff. A former Labor political advisor said the actions of the beverage industry scuttled a container deposit system getting up in Western Australia. This is Piers Verstegen:
Piers Verstegen: I think it was quite clear that the tactics that the beverage industry have used to undermine commonsense recycling schemes and commonsense recycling policies have spooked the Labor Party in the past here in Western Australia and possibly will do so again in the future.
Di Martin: More of those allegations later in the program. Now the beverage industry is trying to head off efforts to introduce a container deposit scheme at a national level. Jeff Angel is from the Boomerang Alliance of environment groups:
Jeff Angel: In the next 12 months the environment ministers around Australia and nationally will be making a decision on whether we have a container deposit system. Quite clearly we have to confront the industry tactics and the lobbying by big groups such as Coke, because quite simply, no other alternative offers that full range of benefits to the community and the economy.
Di Martin: Yet, Coca Cola's Alec Wagstaff is confident the Cash for Containers scheme will be rejected.
Alec Wagstaff: This scheme has been looked at for 25 years, it's probably one of the most studied public policy instruments of all time, and it's been rejected consistently over that time. So the most recent national report showed that container deposits was an extremely expensive way of achieving a limited environmental outcome.
Di Martin: Alec Wagstaff. To get a better sense of the debate, Background Briefing went to the only place you can see the Cash for Containers scheme in operation—and that's South Australia.
(Sound from Adelaide recycling depot)
At a recycling depot in Adelaide's west a worker counts a van load of bottles and cans brought in by a young woman, working out how much the refund will be.
Woman: Oh, he just counts the bottles that we drop in. So we collect them at home and then we just bring them here and they, yeah, count them all up and we get money for it.
Di Martin: You were just handed a slip where he wrote the nine dozen bottles; you've passed it through this window here and he hands you cash.
Woman: Yeah, that's it, it's good. And you'll notice our streets don't have any cans on them, because everyone collects them to actually get money back.
Di Martin: What do you think of your scheme—the container deposit scheme?
Woman: I think it's great. I think every state should have it.
Di Martin: So what works about it? We've got curb-side recycling in some of the eastern states...
Woman: It's an incentive to actually make the place cleaner and people... like, you see along the beach heaps of older people that are on pensions and they'll collect bottles and that, and they're extra cash.
(Sound from Adelaide recycling depot)
Di Martin: So you got nine dozen wine bottles, how much did you get back...
Woman: No, no, I had more. We had beer cartons as well. So I got $75.
Di Martin: Gee, that's all right.
Woman: Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's why it's a good incentive. (Laughs) You can't complain.
Di Martin: South Australia introduced their system in the mid-1970s, when old refillable bottles were replaced. Instead of being taken back to the store, the new single-use cans and bottles went out the window or into the tip.
Vaughan Levitzke has worked with or alongside the Cash for Containers scheme for nearly 20 years. He shows some photos from the scheme's early days.
(To Vaughan Levitzke) Oh, that's an old one.
Vaughan Levitzke: That's an old one. That's from 1972; the first environment minister, in Glen Broomhill, who brought in the container deposit legislation, is standing out there in front of parliament house getting his photo taken with all of these cans strewn in front of the main entry.
Di Martin: A container deposit scheme had just been introduced by Oregon in the United States and South Australia followed suit. Vaughan Levitzke now heads the state's waste agency, called Zero Waste. He says the container deposit scheme works by putting an artificial value on something that was previously seen as rubbish. Vaughan Levitzke says the scheme has created a subculture of highly effective recyclers.
Vaughan Levitzke: People with these huge bags hanging off bicycles, going around, looking through bins, and they have tongs, they'll have hooks on the end of a piece of rod and whatever else, to pull containers out of the bin. Some of them are homeless; some of them are having a really rough time of it; some of them use it to augment their pensions and whatever else. Others have turned it into an industry, you know, and they've become reasonably well off by dedicating themselves to becoming these types of recyclers.
Di Martin: How effective is it?
Vaughan Levitzke: It's hugely effective in reducing beverage litter. It's very effective in recycling as well. Because we get high engagement with communities and charities and others who collect these containers—mums and dads, kids pick these things up, bring them back into depots—we get around 80 to 85 per cent return rate on beverage containers sold in this state.
Di Martin: Vaughan Levitzke says beyond the public who collect and cash in, there are other layers of business opportunities created by this scheme. In Port Adelaide, the scouts run several bottle and can collection depots. They are a multimillion dollar business.
John Lester: My name's John Lester. I'm the general manager of the Scout Recycling Centres. We are standing in front of our depot here at 326 Commercial Road, Port Adelaide. It was the initial depot that the scouts actually started off with and we've grown from there. We now offer eight, nine recycling depots; we have a turnover of about 22 million a year; we employ... Employment is a big factor; we employ 110 people and we trade seven days a week.
Di Martin: Well, John, take us in and show us what happens here.
John Lester: OK, if we just walk through now, the customers pull into the driveway; all the labourers offload all the drink containers out of the boots and trailers; and then they are sorted and graded.
Di Martin: Now look, these fellows over here are not recycling cans, so can we go over and can you tell us what's going on over here?
John Lester: This gentleman's just brought in some scrap steel for sale and all we do, we put that onto the set of scales now, we'll weigh it, and it's all the sheet iron from an old fence that's been taken down. We put it onto a set of scales...
Di Martin: John Lester says the Cash for Container depots have expanded to handle other recycling, including problem products like batteries, computers and TVs.
New federal legislation that comes into force next year will make it compulsory to set up a system to collect old tellies and e-waste, or electronic waste. John Lester says South Australia already has the depots to do that.
He also says recycled material from South Australia gets paid a premium, because it's carefully graded and sorted. John Lester says when everything's dumped into a kerbside recycling bin, different types of glass gets mixed up and glass shards can contaminate paper and cardboard recycling.
John Lester: So it's 30 per cent contamination, where in South Australia, we take all the glass out of the curb-side collection and we're being paid for our glass at something like $100 a tonne, where in the eastern states they're lucky if they can get $45–50 a tonne for it.
Di Martin: John Lester says the scouts make good money from their nine depots. The network of 120 South Australian depots collect the state's bottles and cans and give the public back their 10 cent deposit. The depots make their profit by selling the drink containers. Depots charge that 10 cent deposit per container plus a handling fee to cover running costs.
The containers are bought by so-called super-collectors. There's only a couple of these companies in South Australia. They crush the bottles and cans into bales and sell to reprocessing companies here and overseas. Coca Cola Amatil owns the main super-collector in South Australia. This is corporate affairs manager, Alec Wagstaff.
Alec Wagstaff: The scheme in South Australia is industry-funded and industry-run. Coke is one of the two companies that operate a super-collector and, like any business, we make a reasonable rate of return on that.
Di Martin: So Coca Cola is making money from its super-collector. The beverage industry has long argued that the costs of a container deposit system are onerous. Coke says it has to charge on average an extra four cents a drink to cover costs of the scheme. So, overall, is the company out of pocket in South Australia? Here's Alec Wagstaff again:
Alec Wagstaff: When you say have we lost money, have we lost sales, for instance? Are South Australian sales lower because consumers cannot afford it? Over time, we think they have.
Di Martin: Can you quantify that in any way?
Alec Wagstaff: It's very difficult, because we've seen 30 years of the scheme and we've also seen different behaviour by retailers not necessarily passing on the true costs of the scheme to South Australians.
Di Martin: But if you cannot quantify sales lost to Coca Cola, how do you know that there is any?
Alec Wagstaff: Well, I think over the longer term we believe that sales in South Australia are lower than they would have been without a container deposit system.
Di Martin: Alec Wagstaff says a Cash for Containers scheme is simply not necessary. He says the rest of Australia already does a good job of recycling at home and the problem that needs to be tackled is recycling in public places. Alec Wagstaff says the answer is more dual bins in public places, where a waste bin and a recycling bin are placed side by side.
Alec Wagstaff: Westfield looked at, in their food courts, replacing their infrastructure, which in the past had only been waste bins. And once you've done the initial training and education to people, and used similar signals, such as the yellow-top bins—it's very important that people have a consistency about understanding what they can recycle and where—you put that into those places and they mirror the behaviour they do at home.
Di Martin: Proponents of the container deposit schemes say that it is a superior scheme because it works everywhere; not just where there is a bin, but because of the deposit system, people will go out to ovals, malls, they'll pick up litter on the side of the road—and so it is a far broader and more effective scheme overall.
Alec Wagstaff: It's a totally different philosophy. So the way you described it just then is scavenging.
Di Martin: That's Coca Cola's Alec Wagstaff. In South Australia, a waste industry consultant says what some call scavenging, his family calls a business opportunity. Mike Haywood is a former president of the Australian Council of Recyclers.
Mike Haywood: My kids used to collect cans for years, and if they didn't collect cans they didn't get to go to the Royal Show. That was the money they used. My uncle used to do a magazine run and then he would collect cans when he did that. Between the magazine run and the cans it gave him some money to spend when he went back to England on holiday for a few times.
Di Martin: Mike Haywood says the scheme works because even if you don't want to recycle your drink container, somebody else will. He tells this story of a party in the car park of Adelaide's Football Park:
Mike Haywood: We had some friends over from the UK, down there at Football Park. We were sitting having a barbecue and having a few beers and waiting for the game to start. And when it was all over, we packed everything away and tidied everything up, got all the bottles and put them at the boot of the car, and put everything else away, and left the bottles on the floor. And our friends from the UK were a bit horrified that we'd just dump these things at the back of the car. And he said, 'Right, aren't you taking them home?' And I said, 'Mate, she's all good. Won't be there when we get back, because somebody will come through and clear it out.' And as we walked into the oval, there was lots of people did exactly what we did. And when we come out, there wasn't a bottle or a can to be seen. And he just couldn't believe that.
Di Martin: Mike Haywood. But the Packaging Stewardship Forum still says the public place recycling system is just as effective; not at collecting just bottles and cans, but at collecting similar rates of all types of packaging.
The Westfield Group has just published a draft report on the introduction of more recycling bins. It doesn't address rates of recycling, but it does talk about contamination. In the past, public recycling bins have been found half full of the wrong stuff, like rubbish and food scraps. The Westfield report showed contamination rates down to less than six per cent.
At the offices of Keep Australia Beautiful in South Australia, John Phillips says it's such a good result, he wonders what kind of auditing was used. He says recycling bins at big sporting and special events still get jammed up with the wrong thing. John Phillips says contamination can be reduced, but the education to reduce it is expensive.
John Phillips: That doesn't come cheap to engage the community; after all, that's what our business is about. And it's a huge challenge to continually engage community in special events and the bigger picture-type events to separate their waste.
Di Martin: John Phillips says the dual bin system has its place, alongside a Cash for Containers scheme. He says we need to focus on a scheme that's proven to deal with drink containers, because drink containers are a key litter and recycling problem.
Keep Australia Beautiful does a yearly litter survey. It compiles a list, called the 'Dirty Dozen'—the top litter items. Seven of the Dirty Dozen are drink containers. John Phillips is doubtful public recycling bins can cope with the extent of that problem.
John Phillips: Well, there's been a lot of money spent on public place recycling, but I'm not sure that the evidence shows that it's been anywhere near as successful. In fact, I would say in many instances it's been tokenism, a display by the beverage industry stakeholders to divert attention from container deposit legislation and the bigger picture of what could be achieved.
Di Martin: John Phillips, executive director of Keep South Australia Beautiful.
You're listening to Background Briefing and a program about the fierce debate about a Cash for Containers recycling scheme. I'm Di Martin.
For decades the beverage industry has tried to corral the Cash for Containers scheme in South Australia.
But the scheme has broken out across the border and will be introduced in the Northern Territory at the beginning of next year.
(Excerpt from the song, 'I Like Collecting Bottles and Cans')
That's the Northern Territory's official theme song for its Cash for Containers scheme, called 'I Like Collecting Bottles and Cans'. It was part of an intense media campaign waged when the issue was voted on earlier this year.
The campaign centred on the hotly contested topic of how much the scheme will cost industry and, therefore, what kind of price rises consumers will see. Critics of the scheme say the cost of collecting containers from the many remote Northern Territory communities will be ridiculous.
(Sound from the Darwin Show)
In front of a bottle and can recycling machine at the Darwin Show, Iskhandar Razak spoke to the government official in charge of introducing the scheme. Craig Ingram admits that not all the Territory will be covered.
Craig Ingram: We're looking at reasonable access, but I think there's an expectation that any of those remote communities with reasonable populations, you know, there will be some sort of facilities. It mightn't start right from Day 1, but our expectation is there will be a grants program that will be established later in the year and that will basically provide grants to local communities to set up collection depots, set up the infrastructure for collection depots. In some areas it might be a very basic collection point. That's one of the challenges, but we're very confident that we'll be able to meet that demand.
Iskandar Razak: What kind of economic modelling has the Territory government done to prove that this will work.
Craig Ingram: Well, there's been a wide range of economic modelling not just done by the Northern Territory government in the lead-up to developing the scheme, but internationally.
Di Martin: But Craig Ingram also admits that no cost-benefit study has been done in the Territory, leaving the government open to industry criticism. Here's the beverage industry's Alex Wagstaff.
Alec Wagstaff: They've done no work on the scheme; they've done no modelling; they've not put it up to any independent evaluation. Clearly the Northern Territory's introduction of the scheme was a political act. It was nothing to do with environmental outcomes at all.
Di Martin: What Alec Wagstaff is referring to here is the timing of the government's announcement to pursue the scheme. It came shortly after reports a high profile minister would resign from parliament, cruelling Labor and its slim, one-seat majority.
The Northern Territory had just one independent that might shore up Labor ranks—former chicken farmer Gerry Wood. Gerry Wood is a strong supporter of a container deposit scheme.
But Northern Territory environment minister, Karl Hampton, says the scheme is not about Labor buying its way out of a political pickle.
Karl Hampton: Oh, look, absolutely not. We made it an election commitment from the Labor government in 2005. Certainly we did not have to get into an agreement with Gerry Wood until mid-way throughout this term of government, so it's certainly not caught up with that.
Di Martin: But your predecessor Len Kiely told the ABC three years ago that it was too expensive to run such a scheme solo in the Northern Territory. So what's changed since then?
Karl Hampton: Well, obviously a lot of work's been done. We've had the working group, we've looked at the models with the best fits and we've come up with this model that, as I said, has been tested legally, financially and regionally.
Di Martin: The beverage industry says, 'Look, just get a whole lot of dual bins out there; educate people...'
Karl Hampton: Where does it work? I mean, that would be my question, is prove to me that it does work. Where has it worked? I'm basing our model in the Northern Territory on a system and a model that has worked, and that's in South Australia.
Di Martin: That's Karl Hampton. But the beverage industry strongly disagrees—and publicly. It and other opponents of the scheme ran a series of media ads. The ads claim that on top of the 10 cent deposit, consumers will be forking out another 10 cents per container to pay industry running costs. Here's one of the TV ads:
(Audio from TV commercial)
But the Territory government says industry is fudging figures to scare away support for the scheme. This is environment minister Karl Hampton:
Karl Hampton: They're saying that the price of a can of Coke's going to go up enormously, but we know that at the moment you go to South Australia, where they've got a scheme in, you can buy a can of Coke for the same price as you'd buy it in the Territory, and that's just not true.
Di Martin: So what's your modelling of how costs will increase? Beyond the 10 cents there has to be a handling fee paid by the beverage industry. What are your figures telling you about what that handling fee will be?
Karl Hampton: Well, look, I think it's very minimal—around two or three cents perhaps. But, as I said earlier, I think the beverage industry can wear that cost. It should not be worn by the consumers.
Di Martin: Karl Hampton. From the beverage industry, Alec Wagstaff is scornful of the government's maths.
Alec Wagstaff: They have no idea.
Di Martin: OK. How can you say they have no idea?
Alec Wagstaff: They have no idea.
Di Martin: Because?
Alec Wagstaff: To suggest two to three cents, which is less than the handling fee paid currently in South Australia, which is a highly urbanised community, just demonstrates they have no idea.
Di Martin: Alec Wagstaff also says it's the government that's guilty of misleading Territorians in its own advertising. Here's the government's ad:
(Audio from TV commercial)
Coca Cola's Alec Wagstaff says that ad fails to mention that consumers have to fork out the ten cent deposit in the first place. And the territory's auditor-general found the government wanting as well. It found one of the government's newspaper ads misrepresented comment as fact.
As MPs prepared for the first sessions of parliament this year, tensions between government and industry were already high. Government sources say they were amazed at the strength of lobbying, saying they'd only watched such campaigns before in the east.
Tensions reached a peak just before parliament voted on the scheme. Treasurer Delia Lawrie made the following revelation to parliament about a meeting she had with Coca Cola executives. Here's a dramatisation of the treasurer's comments:
Actor: At the end of the meeting they clearly outlined that they would be approaching the opposition, the Country Liberal Party, to discuss how they might help the CLP oppose the legislation.
Di Martin: The meeting was reported in the media as Coca Cola Amatil offering to fund the Country Liberal Party to oppose a container deposit scheme. Coca Cola's corporate affairs director is Alec Wagstaff:
Alec Wagstaff: No one from CCA made any promise or offer to fund either the CLP or the ALP in the election campaign in the Northern Territory. And I think you'll find when the records for political donations come out for that period, you'll see that no funding was made to either party.
Di Martin: But was there an implied threat ...
Alec Wagstaff: No.
Di Martin: ...that Coca Cola Amatil would go to the opposition and help it in its re-election bid?
Alec Wagstaff: No.
Di Martin: In the end, the Northern Territory parliament voted unanimously for the introduction of a container deposit scheme. But industry is undeterred. It revealed to Background Briefing that it's preparing a legal challenge against the Northern Territory government. Here's Alec Wagstaff from the Packaging Stewardship Forum:
Alec Wagstaff: On the basis that we believe it breaches the Mutual Recognition Act and that's an act that says basically if a product's legal to sell in one state, it's legal to sell in another state. So, put simply, if it's legal to sell a beverage container in Queensland, the Mutual Recognition Act says it's legal to sell that container in other states. It was introduced in the '90s to promote a single, national economy.
Di Martin: So the act was introduced well after the South Australian scheme got going, and South Australia is exempted. The Northern Territory government says it will also apply to other states and territories for an exemption, and it's confident it will get it.
But the legal threat is not the only remaining worry for the Territory government. The scheme is due to start at the beginning of January. There are widespread concerns depots are not going to up and running in time and the beverage industry says the timeline is too tight to get its systems ready. Environment minister, Karl Hampton, raises the question of whether the industry is deliberately going slow to compromise the scheme.
Karl Hampton: They've known about the scheme for a long time. Whether this is part of their campaign to scuttle it, obviously I do feel sometimes they are. But the scheme's going to be in place by the end of the year; they need to get on board.
Di Martin: But the beverage industry hotly denies any delaying tactics. Alec Wagstaff:
Alec Wagstaff: The beverage industry has participated in every single consultative forum the Territory government has held. At every forum we have asked questions and requested information about the rules of the scheme. As at the 9th of August, the Northern Territory government are still to release the rules of how the scheme will operate, and yet they expect the scheme to be up and running in January 2012.
Di Martin: Are you saying that the scheme will not be up and running?
Alec Wagstaff: I don't know. Individual companies have to make their own decisions about whether they can make the scheme up and running in that time.
Di Martin: It's not just in the Northern Territory where there's been fierce lobbying and controversy over efforts to introduce a Cash for Containers scheme. The other state that came very close to introducing such a system is Western Australia. Piers Verstegen from the state's conservation council argues no other system would deal so effectively with Western Australia's woeful recycling record.
Piers Verstegen: In Western Australia we recycle around 20 per cent of our cans and bottles, which is really a very bad record. Just over the border in South Australia, where the recycling refund scheme has been operating for some time, they achieve around 80 per cent recycling. So you can see a stark difference just through the introduction of a scheme like this in terms of the increased level of recycling—and of course that means that there's increased jobs, increased investment, and provide an economic benefit for the state as well as the environmental benefits that go with recycling.
Di Martin: Piers Verstegen was also a political advisor to the environment minister in the previous Labor government. He watched as Western Australian Labor went to the brink of introducing a Cash for Containers scheme.
Labor MP John Hyde chaired a major investigation into whether the scheme would be a good idea for the state. John Hyde says both his report and a major economic analysis found the scheme's advantages far outweighed any costs.
John Hyde: That's correct and that's why our cabinet and our Labor caucus endorsed WA introducing a CDS. And then when we introduced our last waste management bill we included in that the ability for the minister to introduce by regulation the container deposit scheme.
Di Martin: It looked like a political slam dunk, except the months kept rolling past and nothing seemed to happen. John Hyde describes the reaction of the beverage industry to his government's push towards a container deposit scheme.
John Hyde: The moment we announced the investigation that I chaired, we got quite heavy lobbying from the beverage industry.
Di Martin: What do you mean by 'heavy lobbying'?
John Hyde: Well, they employed professional lobbyists. Like many well-resourced multinational companies they have internal lobbyists who of course escape the requirements of having to be on a lobbyists' register. They also use specific lobbying companies and I think a couple of those very professional lobbyists came and saw us and saw other MPs and my understanding is that a lot of pressure was put on the Labor Party at the time we were the government.
Di Martin: John Hyde says Labor wasn't the only party to feel the heat.
John Hyde: It was certainly my understanding from talking to MPs in both the Liberal Party and the Labor Party that pressure was being put on in terms of the beverage industry, and other opponents of container deposit weren't happy that WA was looking like it was going to introduce it and that they would be using publicity and whatever means were available to them to stop its introduction.
Di Martin: That's Member for Perth, John Hyde. Meanwhile, Piers Verstegen, a former political advisor to the environment minister, decided to try and find out why the scheme wasn't being introduced.
Piers Verstegen: And it was put to me by a number of people within the party that the primary reason why the government wasn't moving forward with this commitment was because of the activities of the beverage industry and the concern that that would undermine support for particular government MPs in particular electorates during an election environment.
Di Martin: Piers Verstegen says he wasn't told which MPs were targeted. Background Briefing asked Member for Perth, John Hyde, about these comments and the actions of the beverage industry in opposing a Cash for Containers scheme.
John Hyde: I think as we both know with the work of lobbyists that they're most effective when they do target marginal seats. I was certainly aware that before our 2005 campaign and our 2008 campaign that associates of the beverage industry and associates of those opposed to container deposit were intimating that they would be looking very strongly at campaigning against the re-election of a government that was supporting container deposit, which was the Labor government, or an opposition, which was the Liberal opposition, if they were going to be supporting container deposit.
Di Martin: John Hyde, now the Western Australian shadow Minister for Arts. Background Briefing put these allegations to Alec Wagstaff, who works for Coca Cola Amatil and is head of the Packaging Stewardship Forum.
Alec Wagstaff: I have no knowledge of that whatsoever.
Di Martin: Does the beverage industry suggest to political parties that it will, through the use of advertising or other strategies, oppose their electoral chances?
Alec Wagstaff: The beverage industry, like any other citizen in civil society, has the right to put its views to the public. We don't make threats; it's not something that the industry does to politicians. Politicians have the right to make policy decisions; there is right to have robust and public debate about the merits of those schemes, and we think that debate's very healthy.
Di Martin: So you're saying that this is not correct, what John Hyde has said.
Alec Wagstaff: As I said, I have absolutely no knowledge of that whatsoever.
Di Martin: When pressed on the allegations this is what Alec Wagstaff had to say.
Alec Wagstaff: I find that suggestion outrageous. It's sort of a conspiracy theory gone to a new element. We debate public policy in the forums that public policy should be debated. From time to time that involves advertising, absolutely, about putting of our positions. But in terms of targeted campaigns against particular seats, absolutely that has never happened.
Di Martin: Alec Wagstaff says before the last election in 2008, when Labor lost office, the beverage industry did help run a media campaign. But Alec Wagstaff says it didn't target individual seats, nor did it target Labor; it targeted the Greens Party, who were promoting a Cash for Containers scheme.
Alec Wagstaff: At that stage, neither the Labor nor the opposition were running in their policy platforms for a container deposit. The only party that was, in that election, were the Greens, and there was a campaign—very limited—pointing out the financial impact of such a proposal on the voters.
Di Martin: When you say it's very limited, how much money was spent on that campaign?
Alec Wagstaff: It was in the order of a couple of hundred thousand dollars.
Di Martin: That's Alec Wagstaff, who also says that Coca Cola did not make political donations to either major party in Western Australia in the lead-up to the 2008 election.
The allegations made against the beverage industry are not about illegal behaviour. There's no crime in electoral campaigning. The issue is whether those with access to big cash reserves can unduly influence the political process, using that money to drown out other legitimate voices.
Former political advisor to the Labor government, Piers Verstegen, says that's what's happened in Western Australia.
Piers Verstegen: It really comes down to the financial weight that these companies have and that they can throw around, and the level of influence that they have within parliament, in back rooms. And we're talking about channels of influence that the rest of the community doesn't have available to them. And we're talking about channels of influence that are very difficult for the rest of the community to understand or even to see what's going on.
Di Martin: That's Piers Verstegen. I'm Di Martin and you're listening to a Background Briefing on a Cash for Containers recycling scheme and the influence of major corporations on public policy. And if you want to comment on the program, go to our website at abc.net.au/rn.
The long-running fight over Cash for Containers has now moved to the national arena. A federal environment council is expected to report later this year on the best way to increase recycling, and container deposits is one of the options.
But the federal council is not relying on the scores of studies already written on the scheme. Some for, some against, virtually all these reports are hotly contested. Instead, the federal environment council commissioned its own report.
But it too came under fire when it found a national container deposit scheme would be too expensive. One of the report's authors is Drew Collins, from the consultancy the BDA Group.
Drew Collins: The major costs involved are setting up the collection centres for the beverage containers, so you need depots or collection points convenient enough that the general public will use them. If they're too dispersed and too hard to get to, then people won't make the effort to recycle them.
Di Martin: Drew Collins says there are extra costs in administration and other things like changes to drink labels. His report calculated a price tag of $680 million a year.
But critics of the report say that cost is misleading. A third of the price tag is something called inconvenience costs. It's putting a dollar figure on the inconvenience to people of collecting, storing, and returning drink containers.
In South Australia, head of the state's waste agency is Vaughan Levitzke. He says locals don't see a trip to the depot as a financial burden.
And Vaughan Levitzke has another objection, saying the major cost identified by the report is a red herring. Vaughan Levitzke says profits from the scheme cover the costs of setting up depots.
Vaughan Levitzke: When they talk about introducing it into, say, New South Wales or Victoria, 'Oh my God, you're going to have to build depots and who's going to do that?' Well, the fact of the matter is, in South Australia they're all privately owned. These are mums and dads, small SME businesses that have grown over the last 30 years, and some people own five or six depots, some only own one depot, but they're all small business operators, it's all in the private sector, it is not government-run, it's not taxpayer funded; this is funded within the system itself.
Di Martin: And Vaughan Levitzke says the report's price tag is also misleading, because it doesn't account for the money that industry can make out of the scheme.
Everyone has to pay the beverage industry 10 cents more for a drink, but not everyone gets their 10 cents back. Even in South Australia, 15 to 20 per cent of containers end up in the tip or the bottom of a lake. If those deposits are kept by industry, industry can cover most of its costs. The report's author Drew Collins says the actual cost industry would pass onto the consumer would be about half a cent more for each container.
Drew Collins: That's right, about half a cent a container on the assumption that the deposits are kept by the industry and not by government.
Di Martin: Now, to a mum at home or a dad at home who's got young kids and who thinks, 'Look, it's a scheme that's worked in South Australia well; kids get out and collect a whole lot of can and bottles; they understand the worth and the value of those bottles, not as waste but as embodying some kind of raw materials; they're getting a bit of pocket money—half a cent sounds pretty reasonable to me.' What would you say to them?
Drew Collins: Look, it does sound reasonable and I agree there are probably broader benefits in terms of educating children about environmental awareness; a bit of initiative; lots of good reasons. But 12 billion containers, even at half a cent, that adds up and there are more efficient ways of investing the community's money in providing environmental dividend.
Di Martin: What if the public is willing to pay the extra half cent?
Drew Collins: That's an interesting question, Di, because I know the Environment Protection and Heritage Council has, subsequent to our study, gone out and undertaken a willingness to pay survey. And I believe that survey indicated a reasonable willingness to pick up the sort of costs involved in a national beverage container scheme.
Di Martin: Drew Collins from the BDA Group. Objections to the BDA report will be considered by the federal environment council, along with more number crunching on which recycling scheme is best. A report is expected by year's end.
But a well placed federal source has told Background Briefing that the BDA report has virtually scuttled the chance for a national Cash for Containers scheme. In South Australia, Vaughan Levitzke is not giving up hope.
Vaughan Levitzke: I think that would be a bit presumptuous to think that this has been knocked on the head; in fact, I think there is growing interest around the country as different governments look at container deposits as a way of engaging with communities, as a way of building their recycling capacity. So I can't for the life of me work out why it's so difficult.
Di Martin: And the debate rages on. Certainly as long as there are supporters like Mike Haywood from South Australia, we've not seen the last of efforts to spread the word about container deposit legislation, or, as Mike Haywood refers to it, 'CDL'.
Mike Haywood: Then I see all these people speaking at conferences against CDL and about programs and about all this... Just introduce CDL! Let's grow up. Let's get on with it. Have a look—it works. And I'll tell you—I mean this honestly—if they can honestly prove to me that there is a system anywhere in the world—short of Singapore, where they'll beat you with a rattan cane—if there's a system anywhere in the world that works as well as CDL, then we should just shut up and introduce it into South Australia. But there isn't.
Di Martin: Background Briefing's coordinating producer is Linda McGinnis. Research by Anna Whitfeld and extra reporting by Iskandar Razak in Darwin. Our technical operator is Michelle Goldsworthy, and Kirsten Garrett is executive producer. I'm Di Martin and you're listening to ABC Radio National.
Further Information
- The Packaging Stewardship Council of the Australian Food and Grocery Council
- The Packaging Stewardship Forum (PSF) of the AFGC was established in 2006. We work with partners across Australia to deliver voluntary industry recycling, litter reduction and education programs on behalf of our members, Australia's largest beverage companies and their packaging suppliers.
- Boomerang Alliance
- The Boomerang Alliance, made up of Australia`s leading environment groups, is committed to work for zero waste in Australia.
- The Australian Packaging Covenant
- The Australian Packaging Covenant is a voluntary initiative, by Government and Industry, to reduce the environmental effects of packaging on the Environment. It is designed to minimise the environmental impacts arising from the disposal of used packaging, conserve resources through better design and production processes and facilitate the re-use and recycling of used packaging materials.
- Environment Protection and Heritage Council - Beverage Containers
- In April 2008, Environment Protection and Heritage Council agreed to conduct an assessment of potential options for national measures, including container deposit legislation, to address resource efficiency, environmental impacts, and the reduction of litter from packaging wastes such as beverage containers.
- Product Stewardship Bill 2011
- Product stewardship means that everyone involved in the production, supply and use of the products we consume shares responsibility for those products - from the point of design and manufacture through to disposal.
- Recyclers of South Australia
- Recyclers of South Australia Inc is an association representing 114 Recycling Centres throughout the State
- Presenter
- Di Martin
- Producer
- Di Martin
Comments (34)
Paul Carter :
11 Sep 2011 10:07:43am
Drive across the SA border in either direction and see the results for yourself. Within 5 km into SA you'll see very few drink containers. Go the other way and the reverse is true. Cash for containers is an investment in environmental well being, a harmless tax. I've never heard any South Australian complain about the cost of Coke etc. either. What do these manufacturers think they're producing? Medicines for the third world? Make them pay.
Dorico :
11 Sep 2011 10:46:15am
As Adelaide based touring cyclists we have observed up close and at a slow speed in 3 states, the benefits of a drink container deposit scheme.
Cycling out of South Australia it's not long before you see drink containers littering the roadside, litter that some South Australian would have picked up to cash in.
Even in beautiful rainforest areas of Tasmania, we have observed numerous cans and plastic bottles littering the edges of the road. This litter would not be seen from a car travelling at the speed they do.
I recall waiting for a train at a Sydney station, the amount of beverage containers littering the track simply would not happen is South Australia.
At home we store our drink containers and 'donate' them to an aged pensioner friend. This friend is able to register his car and caravan from what he accumalates throughout the year. -
Ian Bryce :
11 Sep 2011 11:32:38am
In 1970 the SA deposit was 5 cents. Since then, the average income has gone up times about 12. Thus to provide the same incentive, the deposit would now need to be 60 cents.
What is the impact on struggling families? It can be zero - all they have to do is take the container back.
The present proposal of 10 cents is trivial.-
Dorico :
11 Sep 2011 11:56:13am
You're quite right Ian about the deposit, but even at 10 cents it works. Observe how long a can or bottle lies on the road in Adelaide. I walk along our street, see a can and tell myself I'll pick that up on the way back (if it's still there). Invariably it's gone, someone has gained the 10 cents, probably as they walked their dog.
Ernst :
11 Sep 2011 11:44:54am
Whilst people are ultimately resposible for littering, the beverage is equally responsible for drink container litter. By opposing the introduction of of container deposit schemes they are contributing to the problem. Instead of showing themselves to be environmentally responsible, they continue to oppose any CDS.
Does South Australia sell less beverages per head of population than the rest of the country? That would be interesting information, I somehow would think not.
The beverage industry have demonstrated themselves to be irresponsible. Let's face it, what they sell are not life essential items, alcohol and sugary fattening drinks, really, they're luxury items. -
Jimbo :
11 Sep 2011 11:47:10am
Di, i am amnazed that you and contributors missed the main reason in favour of reclaiming used cans. Viz : the cost of PRODUCING Aluminium. Refining from bauxite to alumina powder is hugely expensive, so much that one of the worlds largest producers is in process of moving to a site in the northern hemi which has cheap hydro/ geyser power source. The cost of the second stage, to produce aluminium from alumina is almost as costly.
With the major cost of producing the aluminium absorbed in the first production of a can, the cost to collect it and resmelt/reform it in miniscule by comparison.-
peter :
14 Sep 2011 10:07:23pm
Quite right Jimbo. Recycling an aluminium can takes a very small amount of the energy compared with original production from bauxite using subsidised electric power. BB might investigate why the alumina smelters don't reflect this cost and be directly involved in recycling. In other words explore the issue from the other 'end'. I gave up can collecting in NSW when the GFC saw prices drop from $1.50+ to 90c. CD at 10c is a godsend.
Good onya South Australia :
11 Sep 2011 12:57:51pm
Whilst the federal government is being cautious, South Australia has demonstrated for over 30 years that a reasonably priced deposit is a good way to having not only less drink cans but also potentially dangerous drink bottles lying around.
It is good to see the Northern Territory following, and hopefully succeeding. It was somewhat sad however to hear on the programme how the former Western Australian government had intended to introduce container deposit legislation but was not able to implement it.
In the absence of a national scheme, it would be good to see another mainland State, or the ACT, implement such a scheme. As SA has demonstrated, it works well for the community as a whole. -
michael :
11 Sep 2011 11:02:00pm
The case for right wing Government action based on the user pays principle seemed to be missing from your program. Apart from the environmental cost of manufacturing aluminium and glass and the ensuing problem of litter and the health risks to children from broken glass, once again it is the taxpayer that foots the bill for cleaning up, recycling and medical treatment.
Good right wing thinking should support the idea that the consumer of the beverage contributes directly to the cost of returning these containers to their supplier and to their recycling; an idea I would have liked to have seen explored with right wing political leaders.
Instead, the clear impression I was left with from the program was that right wing political will was inclined to support big business in return for electoral support, not withstanding the cost to the the taxpayer.
The SA story can leave you in no doubt that the idea is hugely successful, with the added benefit of fostering the next generation of SA entrepreneurs. -
Peter Cook :
12 Sep 2011 1:23:34pm
The final comment on Background Briefing said it all. If there is a better system than CDL industry should propose it. They have not because a better system does not exist. Their alternative, public place recycling, does not even work half as well. It sounds good in theory but does not work in practice. Firstly, contamination rates are high resulting in most of the drink containers been thrown out. Secondly, public place recycling bins at best can only ever be available at a limited number of places. This is a political fight between a well resourced industry whose philosophical opposition has prevailed over the public good.
Nathan :
12 Sep 2011 2:25:26pm
Alec Wagstaff, wearing his 'Coke Hat', mentions relatively few sales in South Australia, but the market here is dominated by Farmers Union Iced Coffee; attempts to compete through the purchase of rival milk brands have also failed. Regarding Western Australia, does Wagstaff think he's fooling anyone when he suggests Coca-Cola Amatil is an ordinary law-abiding citizen? None of my friends earn half a billion per annum.
Clytie Siddall :
16 Sep 2011 2:51:45pm
We should also point out that all drink containers, whether glass, plastic or cardboard, have the 10c deposit and are rebatable.
So milk drinks don't have any advantages over Coke... except that they have a much higher nutrition value, and I seriously doubt if they contain as much sugar. What is it for a standard can of coke, 13 teaspoons of sugar?
BB, thanks for this excellent program. I came here via a link posted by a commenter on the ABC News article.
Helen Moore :
12 Sep 2011 3:49:39pm
Congratulations, Radio National, for yet another great story on Background Briefing, a now all-too rare media outlet that allows for careful in-depth investigation of stories that don't make the headlines. What a disgraceful undermining of policy-making that's in everyone's interests except the lazy and greedy Coca Cola/Amatil! This kind of story is why I'm **delighted** to pay taxes towards the ABC's upkeep. So please please don't ever water down this key aspect of your contribution to Australian civil society.
Stephen Coates :
12 Sep 2011 11:59:27pm
When I was growing up in Canada, there were just three brewing companies and they all sold their many beers in 6, 12 and 24 packs, all in the same sized boxes and using the same 12-oz bottles. Whenever someone went to the beer store to buy their beer, they would inevitably also return a box of empties to collect their deposit, then 5 cents per bottle. I have no idea what percentage of bottles were returned, but it would have been well above 50%. But more significantly, these bottles did not need to be sorted by supplier - they were washed and reused, which uses much less energy than crushing to make new bottles.
On more recent return visits, there has been an growth of boutique breweries, a proliferation of bottle shapes and sizes and almost certainly a reduction of return rates. At the risk of sounding regulatory, I'd like to see Australia specify a set of standard jar and bottle sizes for many product types and with deposits that would encourage both returning the empties and their reuse.-
Aleks :
14 Sep 2011 1:41:25pm
Thanks BB for discussing this issue.
I fully agree Stephen Coates, and a few other who have mentioned Al production, etc.
Though what i am about to say is outside of the scope of the program (Should NT recycle or not) I think in general the principle of the scheme fails to recognise the first two steps of consumable resource/waste management. In order, they are:
Poli's and the public need to be educated about reduction in consumption. This is a sociological change, the hardest but the most effective.
The last two are mostly engineering and financial changes.
Like S.Coates said, where materials allow, such as glass, the item should be cleaned and reused.
Only when the waste cannot be reused, should recycling be considered. When materials such as plastics are recycled they'll lose some physical properties; reducing the amount of applications they can be used for.
Darren :
13 Sep 2011 11:38:10am
I work at a local football club in Brisbane we have yellow top recycling bins next to general waste bins all over the park. They are always full of general waste as well as recyclable materials. In fact people view them both as simply bins and don't separate out their waste. People are generally lazy unless there's a financial incentive. Alec wagstaff is dreaming if he thinks a voluntary public recycling scheme will be able to match a CDS
Pugsley III :
14 Sep 2011 12:21:18pm
This is an example of why we need some political leaders with a backbone who will make a stand and do what is right instead of just folding in the face of threats from big business to sabotage their electoral prospects if they don't toe the self-interested corporate line.
The container deposit scheme enables the less well-off citizens here in our SA country town, with a little effort, to supplement their meagre incomes, and the added bonus is our streets and parks and beaches are completely free of empty drink containers.
Personally I don't mind paying a few extra cents for my lolly-water.
As far as I'm concerned it's a win-win situation. -
Bronwyn King :
14 Sep 2011 4:46:43pm
Another fantastic BB program which was so good I listened to the original and again online. Di Martin's style is thorough and engaging - more like this please!
Bron -
James :
15 Sep 2011 10:34:08pm
I ride my bike to work and every monday morning I notice numerous broken beer and other alcoholic drink bottles smashed on the road and footpath after the weekend. I've had quite a few flat tyres thanks to this dangerous litter. The fines for littering do nothing to reduce the amount of broken bottles which are increasing. The polluters must pay, and 10 cents deposit is a pretty small price.
Clytie Siddall :
16 Sep 2011 2:57:54pm
I would also like to commend BB for including the references used in the program. This is what Assange called "scientific journalism", where we actually get to see the background information.
Some articles on the Drum have included references: I'd really like to see this as standard (if necessary as inline links) in any news and current-affairs articles or transcripts.
BB, thanks for setting a good example of "quality journalism". :) -
anon :
17 Sep 2011 9:49:33am
Thanks BB!
Good idea, NT, but why are remote communities last on the list (again)? There would be some great opportunities for community fundraising & offsetting transport costs of goods in/out of communities if they had access to CDL facilities.
Apparently along with the majority I think national CDL makes sense. -
Good onya South Australia :
19 Sep 2011 12:59:34pm
More good points in comments, including Darrens re yellow top recycling bins next to general waste bins in a Brisbane park "full of general waste" and the value of a financial incentive.
It would be good to see RN return to the to issue, perhaps looking at this issue of waste as a whole. Meantime, from a meeting of Federal and State ministers on 5 November 2009: Communiqué
Historic agreement sets waste agenda to 2020 for less waste and more resources
National Waste Policy include
• avoid the generation of waste; reduce the amount of waste (including hazardous waste) for disposal; manage waste as a resource and ensure that waste treatment, disposal, recovery and reuse is undertaken in a safe, scientific and environmentally sound manner; and
Beverage Container Investigation
Today ministers heard expert advice on the preliminary findings of the modelling study which found a high level of community interest in recycling packaging, with little difference between geographic locations.
Ministers are keenly awaiting the results of the final report, to assist them to make an evidence based decision on what action to take on the community's desire to recycle more packaging and reduce litter. If a sufficient willingness to pay is demonstrated by the community, through the report findings, the next step would be to compare this against the cost of a range of options, including a Container Deposit Scheme and a range of other targeted activities.
All jurisdictions will continue to work with relevant stakeholders out of session to progress the issue. -
Donald Moore :
22 Sep 2011 5:27:06pm
Driving east from WA one enters a state of clean roadsides and tidy towns throughout SA. That would be so for every State which had the same deposit scheme as does South Australia.
Fred :
29 Sep 2011 11:59:36am
Back as far as twenty years ago there was in place in Germany a scheme that we would do well to copy here. There, packaging was assessed, and a bounty placed on the amount of wrapping and packaging on any and ALL products -not just drinks/bottles, but toothpaste, clothing, white-goods soap-powder, the lot. The more wrapping - cardboard plastic etc - you put around your product and so the more garbage generated and the more collection was required - the more the product-PRODUCER paid. The less wrapping, the less garbage produced, the less garbage collection and disposal needed, meaning less cost to the state, the less the producer paid.
Simple, easy, and highly effective as I heard. Plain good sense too. TOO MUCH sense for us here I suppose!? -Fred-
v -
Ian :
04 Oct 2011 11:39:10am
This report shows how multinational businesses with deep pockets and shallow ethics can distort the political process.
eg: killercoke.org -
Peter Nelson :
13 Oct 2011 12:58:22pm
Back in the early 1980's I was a volunteer for a group here in Massachusetts, in the United States, trying promote a bottle and can deposit scheme very similar to the ones being attempted in Australia. It was a terrible battle against very well funded companies, including Coca Cola. And they used exactly the same arguments and strategies you describe in your report. I guess you could call it "Classic Coke".
In the end we won, and it made a dramatic reduction of litter in parks, and on roadsides and beaches. Today no one gives it a second thought, it's just part of life. -
Peter :
13 Oct 2011 8:07:28pm
Sydney had bottle and aluminum can deposits in the 1960's and possibly early 1970's, I can't remember exactly which year it was phased out, but to me it just makes sense.
Bring it back and the landscape and it's people will benefit.-
Aina :
16 Dec 2011 12:07:30pm
I grew up with this CDL in NSW in the 1960s. As a child, I benefitted financially by collecting glass bottles and our environment was clean. I recently visited South Australia and the cleanliness of the environment was poignantly obvious.
Good on the NT government for having the foresight to introduce this legislation. NSW does not seem prepared to go there.
The move by Coca Cola-Amatil is both irresponsible and greedy. Stand up to them Mr. Henderson, lead, and gain respect of not only the NT community, but many in other less committed jurisdictions.
Anthony Lyons :
16 Dec 2011 11:44:02am
During May 1968 I commenced employment as Packaging Research Officer at the South Australian Brewing Company. S.A.B as it was known had a wonderful reputation as a contributor to great community awareness. One of the primary reasons for the introduction of the Aluminium can was its Recycle-ability. S.A.B records would show that the introduction of the "Container Deposit" legislation did not effect the sales volume one iota. Litter of the Tin plated steel can was gone from South Australia forever. Sadly the S.A.B of today views things differently to S.A.B of yesteryear.
David Clarke :
20 Dec 2011 6:09:23pm
Personally I am philosophically opposed to the conditioning of coke but does one even have to state which side of a (non)debate is the 'no brainer? ?
Jet Black :
15 Jun 2012 12:02:20am
So Drew Collins reckons its 12 billion containers at 1/2 a cent each adds up to alot...
Well lets do the math...
I make that equal to $60m. That equals $3 per person per year equal to about one 600ml PET bottle of fizzy carbonated caffeinated cola beverage each per year!
If that's the price we must pay for collectively for a cleaner, greener, more energy efficient, less resource and energy consumptive society, with less litter, broken glass and waste, then that sounds like a great deal to me! -
william davies :
17 Jun 2013 9:17:38pm
question 1 who pays the refund and how does this industry recoup their outlay
2 why was refunds implemented if their is know depot
3 why was refunds but on drink bottles and the lew on this.
4 what is the law on throw tax payer money away
5 If the beverage companies is not accountable then is the package companies
6 The companies that pay the CDS would and should recoup off the next companies and so on.
7 The consumer already pays for this.
8 If got a issue with package you consult it with that company.
9 The consumer is inplying a concern,companies should be held accountable.


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Good. Maybe I can go through and meet Sulley and Mike.
There are days where I wish I could step through a door and disappear into another world...
Posted by: The Last Archimedean | Saturday, December 29, 2012 at 02:07 PM
Forget Sully and Mike. I want to find the one with a bunch of sorority girls having a pillow fight in langerie. That's every night at a sorority house right? kind of like every night at a frat house is homoerotic drinking games night.
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Home > About Us > Patient Stories > Delivery Driver Receives Lifesaving Stroke Treatment
FedEx driver Jimmy Hill knew something was wrong. While making morning deliveries in Randolph County just two days before Christmas 2011, he began to lose control of the right side of his body.
"My right hand suddenly looked like it was a mile away from me," he recalls.
Hill made his way to the nearby Climax Fire Station. By the time he arrived, he was unable to speak clearly enough to describe his symptoms to firefighters.
Randolph County Emergency Services personnel called to the scene suspected a stroke. They quickly transported Hill to The Moses H. Cone Memorial Hospital, a nationally certified Primary Stroke Center.
Stroke Nurse Practitioner Sharon Biby vividly remembers the day. "It was Friday, Dec. 23, and our team was headed out for a special holiday lunch," she says. "When we heard the emergency stroke code called, we quickly made our way to the emergency room instead."
Biby and Pramod Sethi, MD, Medical Director of The Moses H. Cone Memorial Hospital Stroke Center, were waiting for Hill when he arrived. They knew immediately his stroke was severe: He had no movement on the right side of his body, and he couldn't speak at all.
As a first step, they administered tPA, a drug that helps dissolve clots that block blood flow and can trigger a stroke. tPA works best when administered within the first three hours of the onset of a stroke.
Hill was well within the appropriate time frame to benefit from this medication.
Further tests showed the underlying cause of Hill's health problems: a tear inside his left carotid artery. It was a life-threatening condition that required immediate action.
Interventional neuroradiologist Tony Deveshwar, MD, performed an emergency angioplasty to repair the torn artery with a stent. He found that clots from the arterial tear were blocking blood flow to a region of Hill's brain that controlled his movement and speech. After putting a small amount of tPA directly into the artery, Deveshwar retrieved two clots and restored normal blood flow. For the next 24 hours, Hill remained sedated and on a ventilator in intensive care.
"They woke me on Christmas Day," he remembers. "The first thing I heard was Dr. Sethi calling my name."
Just six days after he arrived at the hospital, Hill returned home to his family. Though he's not yet able to work, outpatient therapists have helped him make great progress. Today, he walks with only a slight limp and has regained much of his normal speech.
"When I first woke up at the hospital, I could count to four and say the first four letters of the alphabet — but that was it," he says. "I didn't know my phone number or home address. I've come a long way."
Sethi and his team say Hill certainly would have died without prompt intervention.
"They told me I was their Christmas miracle," Hill says. "There was no better place for me to go than Moses Cone Hospital. I still cry when I think about what the team there did for me."
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what in Transmission (Campbelltown Art Centre) 2012
View stockroom & exhibitionswhat in collaboration with composer and sound artist, Julian Day feature in Transmission at the Campbelltown Arts Centre, an exhibition featuring commissions produced by pairing some of Australia's most interesting contemporary artists with some of our most accomplished musicians. Transmission is an official, off site project parallel to the 18th Biennale of Sydney.
1 Art Gallery Rd, Campbelltown NSW
9 June – 5 August 2012


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Broadband and omnidirectional absorption in heterostructures with a highly absorptive metallic film and a dielectric Bragg reflector


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On Sunday afternoons at 14:00 anyone can join the free walks led by Het Gilde Utrecht (Utrecht Guild). No reservation is required; just show up. Het Gilde is a volunteer group of mostly elderly Utrecht residents who enjoy sharing their love of the city with its guests. During the 90-minute walk the city is seen from a variety of perspectives. Experience Art Nouveau, Jewish life, the markets, the bridges and a glimpse of old working-class neighbourhoods. Other tours by the guild take you through the Leidsche Rijn, along the city hall, the many fortresses and the city's surrounding areas. Bicycle tours are also available.
Adults: €5, children (4-12 years) €2,50.
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Why I'm No Longer a High-End Dog Walker
I used to be a high-end dog walker. I worked for a small company employing a handful of people. While our competitors provided group dog walks, we were branded as a luxury dog walking service specializing in individualized walks, so our canine clients received all the attention they demanded.
I got the job because I had worked as a dog walker before, but I was told I was also hired for my "neat appearance."
Why should my appearance matter so much? I would be spending all day on my feet, picking up dog poop, and collecting dog hair.
"We have high-end clients," my boss informed me. I was required to wear a collared shirt.
One particularly high-end client was a woman who lived alone in a big house on the top of a hill overseeing the rest of the city. Her home was immaculately decorated, so much so that I often wondered if she actually lived there. I once had to use the bathroom and felt a little bit like I was soiling a museum piece. Even the bathroom reading material seemed expertly curated.
Although she wasn't employed, she made a job of fussing over the house's imperfections. A scuff on the wall hailed a team of painters to retouch it, a spot on the rug welcomed professional carpet cleaners to steam and scrub the offending mark out, and I never saw food prepared in the kitchen (though the maids were always carting in paper bags from boutique grocery stores). She also had a dog -- a small purebred Poodle -- that she hired a walker to take out. That walker was me.
The Poodle, named Charles, was well cared for, if perhaps a little under socialized and not very well housebroken. This meant I often had to step over and around the hoses of high-powered carpet cleaners when I went to fetch Charles, who was always sitting up on the arm of an expensive-looking couch -- exactly where he was not supposed to sit. The upholstery showed signs of damage, as dogs have no taste for interior design. Nor can they appreciate Italian craftsmanship.
Many rules governed Charles' walks: He was not to walk on the grass, his paws had to be wiped (with a towel monogrammed with his initials) before he entered the house, and I was to carry (in addition to his poop bags) baby wipes. I don't need to tell you what the wipes were for.
The dog would defecate in the park and I would stand there, wipes in hand, with Charles peering imploringly at me as if to say, "Please don't. The other dogs already think I'm weird. Have you seen my haircut?"
I would respond to my imaginary conversation with Charles, saying, "But your human said to. I mean, are you -- you know -- dirty back there?"
In my imagination Charles would say, "Well, I can do an extra scoot on the grass if you think that would help."
I would say, "OK, but do it quickly so no one can see."
So I didn't really use the wipes. I wasn't embarrassed to wipe a dog's butt -- dignity is not something I've cultivated -- but I imagined it was sort of the same thing as someone wearing a really loud perfume on a crowded bus, irritating the refined sense of all the dogs at the dog park. Miraculously, I was allowed to take Charles to the dog park.
Charles often experienced digestive issues. I assumed it was a symptom of stress, of being subjected to his owner's wailing voice whenever a stray mark on a wall appeared, then her ushering a team of strangers to the house, who threw plastic all over the furniture and carpeting.
When these digestive issues flared up, Charles would be rushed to the vet, and the vet would perform blood work and tests and keep the dog overnight for observation, but never deliver a diagnosis.
In my imaginary conversations with Charles, he would tell me, "Dude, I just ate some grass and barfed it up. Dogs eat grass and barf it up -- it's just a thing we do."
But one day Charles' digestive issues expressed themselves through the other end, and it happened right in front of the house before I was supposed to return him. Prior to this incident, Charles had always pooped in the park, and I'd disposed of the poop bags in the public trash cans there. So there I was, doing my best to pluck up every piece of goopy poop off the sidewalk, my dexterity lacking. I finally scooped it all up, pulled the bag inside out, and at the same time, the garage door yawned open. Charles' owner appeared, her maids in tow, heading out to the grocery store. I stood up, bag dangling in one hand and Charles' leash in the other.
The woman shrieked, "What are you doing!"
I fumbled. "My job?"
She became flustered. "No no no, don't bring that in here."
"Bring what?"
"That-that-that bag!"
"I was gonna throw it away in the outside garbage."
"No, you can't throw it in any garbage on the premises."
"Not even the outside garbage?"
I was speechless. My mind reeled. What does she do with the poop when I'm not here? What does she think happens to the food the dog eats? Does she poop? I looked to Charles. I imagined him shrugging.
"What am I supposed to do with it?"
"Take it to the park and throw it away," she said, reaching awkwardly for Charles' leash, as if being in the mere presence of the poop bag might cause poop particles to leap out and attach themselves to her face.
"You want me to take this poop bag in my car with me to throw it away in the park?" I wanted to make sure I understood her.
I think I was stunned by the sheer absurdity of the suggestion, so I did exactly that -- I took the bag full of poop with me, in my car. I drove to the park and tossed it in a trash can there.
And then I sat in my car contemplating other career options.
Photo: Dog Day Afternoon - Dog walking and training by Shutterstock


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Permanent URL to this publication: http://dx.doi.org/10.5167/uzh-9279
Sigurdson, C J; Nilsson, K P R; Hornemann, S; Heikenwalder, M; Manco, G; Schwarz, P; Ott, D; Rülicke, T; Liberski, P P; Julius, C; Falsig, J; Stitz, L; Wüthrich, K; Aguzzi, A (2009). De novo generation of a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy by mouse transgenesis. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America (PNAS), 106(1):304-309.
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Most transmissible spongiform encephalopathies arise either spontaneously or by infection. Mutations of PRNP, which encodes the prion protein, PrP, segregate with phenotypically similar diseases. Here we report that moderate overexpression in transgenic mice of mPrP(170N,174T), a mouse PrP with two point mutations that subtly affect the structure of its globular domain, causes a fully penetrant lethal spongiform encephalopathy with cerebral PrP plaques. This genetic disease was reproduced with 100% attack rate by intracerebral inoculation of brain homogenate to tga20 mice overexpressing WT PrP, and from the latter to WT mice, but not to PrP-deficient mice. Upon successive transmissions, the incubation periods decreased and PrP became more protease-resistant, indicating the presence of a strain barrier that was gradually overcome by repeated passaging. This shows that expression of a subtly altered prion protein, with known 3D structure, efficiently generates a prion disease.
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Additional indexing
Item Type: | Journal Article, refereed, original work |
Communities & Collections: | 04 Faculty of Medicine > University Hospital Zurich > Institute of Neuropathology |
Dewey Decimal Classification: | 570 Life sciences; biology
610 Medicine & health |
Language: | English |
Date: | 6 January 2009 |
Deposited On: | 08 Jan 2009 13:51 |
Last Modified: | 27 Nov 2013 17:38 |
Publisher: | National Academy of Sciences |
Additional Information: | Copyright: National Academy of Sciences USA |
Publisher DOI: | 10.1073/pnas.0810680105 |
PubMed ID: | 19073920 |
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This week's Village Voice — yeah, we're a day late, but, be honest, it's not like you've read it already — carries a cover story by Voice vet and professional Giuliani antagonist Wayne Barrett titled "Rudy Giuliani's Five Big Lies About 9/11." In it, Barrett examines a speech the former mayor delivered in Maryland two months ago, arguing that he had the most and best terrorism-fighting experience of any candidate for president. But Barrett isn't buying Giuliani's claims; in fact, he says they're a bunch of lies. How so?
A few examples:
• "As United States Attorney, I investigated the Leon Klinghoffer murder by Yasir Arafat," Giuliani said. But Barrett cites lawyers who worked on that case in 1985 and say he had nothing to do with it.
• "I got elected right after the 1993 Islamic terrorist attack," Giuliani boasted. "I set up emergency plans for all the different possible attacks we could have. We had drills and exercises preparing us for sarin gas and anthrax, dirty bombs." But Barrett says that first World Trade Center bombing was never mentioned during Giuliani's search for a police commissioner, he claims attorneys prosecuting the bombers were never asked to brief Giuliani, and he reports that the drills only succeeded in revealing failures in the response system that were left resolved.
• In 1997, while he was mayor, the NYPD stopped two terrorists who "were going to blow up a subway station," Giuliani said. "The police department executed a warrant and shot one of the men as he was about to hit a toggle switch." But Barrett points out that it was actually LIRR police who foiled the plan, and nobody was anywhere near a "toggle switch."
Boy, pieces like this must be really undercut the whole argument for Giuliani's candidacy. Or, at least, they would if anyone who was even considering voting for the guy read the Voice.


text: Outter glass to the oven door broke Denson T. • Brooklyn, NY • May 17, 2014 My Repair & Advice Got the outter glass through appliance parts online so easy. My dad held the door open as I unscrew the two screws to release the top of the door ( the screws also connected the handle ) put the glass in the slot at bottom of door (made sure the wasn't inside out)reconnect the top of door making sure to the glass is in the slot screwed back in the two screws. Was this review helpful to you?


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English literature teachers, please tell me if I'm wrong to call this ironic.
CES: Portraits in purple prose (part one)
I was going to call this blog entry about this year's Consumer Electronics Show press releases, "language crimes." But that's overheated. I'll call it "overexcited claims" instead. It's a sample of the sometimes purple, overwrought prose that press agents produce to show off clients' products. At shows like CES, where 125,000 people overwhelm Las Vegas to gawk at consumer electronics for several days, there's a lot of effort to get attention from harried, cranky journalists.
CES: One strip club, one Howard Stern producer and 125,000 friends
In my second day of searching for the most interesting and interestingly written press releases about the Consumer Electronics Show, I came across what appears to be an invitation for 125,000 people:
CES: Achieve new positions
If you're going to Las Vegas, you might as well go to bed in public. And what better way to do that than on a mattress whose ability to achieve new positions is unrivaled? Leonard Cohen would be jealous.
CES: Gadgets from the Consumer Electronics Show
The Consumer Electronics Show is underway, with myriad companies announcing new devices and services. Most are cool, although many may never be seen again after this week, if the companies don't find manufacturing partners or a consumer market that wants these cutting-edge gadgets.


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MoMA PS1 Presents the First Large-Scale Museum Exhibition in New York of Ryan Trecartin's Work
Ryan Trecartin, The Re'Search (Re'Search Wait'S),, 2009-2010. HD Video, 40:09. Image courtesy the artist and Elizabeth Dee, New York.
MoMA PS1 presents the first large-scale museum exhibition in New York of work by the artist Ryan Trecartin (American, b. 1981). Ryan Trecartin: Any Ever fills seven galleries with sculptural theater installations that house projections of the seven movies comprising Trecartin's most recent body of work, Any Ever (2009-2010). The exhibition is on view in the First Floor Main Galleries from June 19 through September 3, 2011, and is organized by Klaus Biesenbach, Director, MoMA PS1, and Chief Curator at Large, The Museum of Modern Art, with the assistance of Eliza Ryan, Curatorial Assistant, MoMA PS1.
Trecartin's distinctive cinematic and sculptural language-developed through a close synergy with his primary collaborator, Lizzie Fitch-continues a tradition of art that heralds, shapes, and challenges the defining technologies and cultural advances of the era. Consistent with his work to date, Any Ever explores emergent concepts of identity, narrative, language, and visual culture through darkly jubilant, frenetic formal experimentations.
Shot in Miami, Florida, and made with contributors ranging from friends and artists to child actors and reality-television performers, Any Ever comprises seven autonomous but interrelated videos. The work is structured as a diptych, with Trill-ogy Comp (three movies) as one section and Re'Search Wait'S (four movies) as the other. Taken together, these videos embark on poetic, formal, and structural elaborations of new forms of technology, language, narrative, identity, and humanity, portraying an extra-dimensional world that channels the existential dramas of our own. The individual videos fit together in shifting combinations, with Any Ever's master narrative chosen by each viewer.
Trill-ogy Comp
Trill-ogy Comp consists of three movies: K-CoreaINC.K (section a), Sibling Topics (section a), and P.opular S.ky (section ish). The title of this piece of the Any Ever diptych riffs on the words trillas in the rapid alternation of two notes, or the sound produced by rolling "r"sand compas in complement, comprehension, and, especially in regard to music and digital editing, composition. Each movie follows the structuralist unity of form and content, self-reflexively building and demonstrating formal logic through narrative abstractions.
K-CoreaINC.K (section a) features actors styled as corporate beings called Koreas. Held together in a lightly allegorical cloud of reductive international stereotypes, they are homogenized by their blond wigs, powder, and office-casual attire. The video revolves around an unending party-like meeting, led by Global Korea (Telfar Clemens), whose circular narrative evades a traditional dramatic arc. The Koreas seem focused only on absurd self-perpetuation, whereby the maintenance of their careers is the principal goal of their jobs.
Sibling Topics (section a) adopts a narrative and style that are more cinematic and seemingly straightforward than any of Trecartins other works. The artist plays quadruplet sisters named Ceader, Britt, Adobe, and Deno, whose personal boundaries are indistinct, as is the nature of their group dynamic, which seems both familial and corporate. Sibling Topics counterbalances the circularity of K-CoreaINC.K, and together the two videos explore dimensions of narrative absurdity as well as the persistence with which communities form, hybridize, and thrive in any circumstance P.opular S.ky (section ish) submerges characters from other sections of Any Ever into an extreme poetic state where their creative limits bloom, but perhaps only on an illusory level. The events of P.opular S.ky are the fevered and shadowy projections of a mind being played with. Whether real or not, these situations key the arc and understanding of the rest of Trill-ogy Comp by depicting versions of their finalities.
ReSearch WaitS
ReSearch WaitS comprises four movies: Ready, The ReSearch, Roamie View: History Enhancement, and Temp Stop. The setting for this part of the Any Ever diptych is an industry predicated on the supremacy of metaphysically evolved market research. As a picture of modern consumer society taken to an extreme, ReSearch WaitS verges on social science fiction and ties together the two sections of the diptych as a yin and yang of nihilism and boundless meaning.
In Ready, the character Wait, played by Trecartin, is introduced as the eponymous figure of the series. He forsakes a career in favor of a job, the execution of which Trecartin calls a work performance. Wait is joined by a careerist, Ready (Veronica Gelbaum), who calls the shots but is locked in her own endless narcissistic ascent. A third type of worker, Able (Lizzie Fitch), more fluidly adopts and discards the gestures of job and career, positing herself as a hobbyist who contrives the situations and outcomes she needs to keep her going. The idea of transumerism, or consumerism driven by experience, is also introduced as a central theme and underlies the plight of the character JJ.
Roamie View : History Enhancement reveals the character JJ as a husk of his former self. In the movie he hires Roamie Hoods (Alison Powell) company to roam backwards through time to research an opportunity for an edit that could alter his future-present. With Backseat Grace (Rachel Lord) and Liberty Lance (Liz Rywelski), Roamie enters the suburban lair of three average teenage boys and then an animated environment strewn with stock footage videos of female assistants in both corporate and shopping settings. Traversing times and possibilities as if they were physical places, Roamie View: History Enhancement foregoes the importance of grasping who one is in favor of where.
The ReSearch is a tween-aged microcosm of Any Ever. Functioning as market research collected by the character Wait for the character Ready, the movie doubles as the site of Waits vacation. Echoed versions of scenarios from other sections of Any Ever play out here, and characters either reappear or are replicated as young girls. It is also a production commissioned for the character Voy, who moves in and out of the action while blurring the boundaries of what is inside and outside reality and fiction.
Temp Stop, as the title implies, has a disjunctive quality that separates it from the other parts of ReSearch WaitS. As if emanating from the basement of Any Ever, each scene plays like a hidden epilogue in which the characters appear surrealin part because they are often so ordinary.
Ryan Trecartin (American, b. 1981) lives and works in Los Angeles. Any Ever has been exhibited at The Museum of Contemporary Art, Los Angeles (2010), The Power Plant, Toronto (2010), and Istanbul Modern (2011). Forthcoming presentations include the Museum of Contemporary Art, North Miami (2011) and Musée d'Art Moderne de la Ville de Paris (2011). Trecartin has exhibited at numerous international biennials including the Singapore Biennial (2011), Gwangju Biennial (2010), Liverpool Biennial (2010), and Whitney Biennial (2006).
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