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Daveycool: "What happens if a monk supports the Karmapa Lama or Shugden worship?"
What makes you think they can't support both the Karmapa Lama AND the Dalai Lama. The KL fled China to rejoin the DL on an epic escape on 2000's New Year's Eve, inflicting an immense loss of face to the Communist Party. Both spiritual leaders have remained in good terms ever since.
You could make your case about the (official) Panchen Lama. But you'd be hard-pressed to find a true supporter of that interloper.
I actually thought about that one when i wrote it. Fundamentally though, in the "old" Tibet, these were rival schools. From what I have read, they were at each others' throats for about 500 years.
There was a brief detente between the two schools but there's been intrigue.
"leaders of the Nyingma and Kagyu schools, along with lay families who followed each school living in thirteen refugee settlements around India and one in Nepal, banded together to protect their monasteries. To rally their supporters, they chose the most charismatic leader they could find -- the sixteenth Karmapa. They formed a counter-party called the Tibetan Welfare Association which came to be known as the Fourteen Settlements group. The Karmapa agreed to serve as spiritual leader of this group"
"To them, this unification plan appeared not as a benefit to Tibetans, but rather as a power-grab by the exile administration."
It's entirely possible that there are monks, real monks, who do not support the DL.
What do you mean with "real monks"? Monks approved by the CCP? LOL
Chinese posters have a hard time accepting that Tibetans do revere the "wolf in monk robes". They do. Just get used to it.
Songpan County is located in Ngawa (Aba in Chinese transliteration) Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture. It is part of Tibetan areas, not China. So, it should be "Tibet's restive monks", not Sichuan.
This is why I have very little respect for Tibetan hypocrites. Apparently they are supposed to be spiritually enlightened. If they know anything about Buddhism, they would know that there is no such thing as ownership, land is not given or promised to any men, men takes land through settlement and force, there is no such thing as 'Tibetan areas, not China'. Why should vast area of lands "belong exclusively" to a handful of nomads who made almost nothing of themselves, when it can be put better use to serve the greater good.
China really shouldn't pay any attention to the rambling of ignorant primitives. You bring these people gasoline, they set themselves on fire in stead of using it for transportation. Fail.
yet another emotional irrational Chinese response. Sadly you are just another in a long line of emotive tirades based on a twisted version of the facts. The Tibetans are talking about THEIR TIBETAN history - not yours - you are Han aren't you and therefore also looking at Tibetan history from the outside. If your version of Tibetan history is so correct, then why do all the Tibetans dispute it? Fat, obese stupid Americans/British - my such tired vitriol... When threatened, resort to insults. So intelligent...
Fix up your own communist party issues first- stop human rights abuses against your own people - good hardworking Han chinese people who are persecuted by your own government and then we can talk...
I think the more people protest for freedom, the less likely the Chinese government is going to be able to loosen things up. It seems like a glaringly obvious correlation to me. Contrary to popular beliefs, the Chinese government has its hands tied due to public opinions. Every increasingly shocking protest is met with ever more angry public opinion pushing back.
I actually don't know what it is the monks are burning themselves up for. Just what do they hope to accomplish? I really hope they stop wasting their lives for some futile attempt at gaining more freedom. There has to be a much more effective way to do this... without death on any side.
"Contrary to popular beliefs, the Chinese government has its hands tied due to public opinions. Every increasingly shocking protest is met with ever more angry public opinion pushing back."
The Communist Party only has itself to blame for that outcome. After decades of nationalist propaganda demonizing Tibetans as "terrorists", "splittists", "backwards fanatics", "CIA pawns" and other nice epithets, the Chinese public, without much access to any other information sources that those approved by the Party, have ended up taking propaganda for fact, and becoming a headache for their rulers, with their shrill ultra-nationalistic drift. You reap what you sow.
"I actually don't know what it is the monks are burning themselves up for. Just what do they hope to accomplish? I really hope they stop wasting their lives for some futile attempt at gaining more freedom."
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety, said Benjamin Franklin. If you think that striving for freedom is futile, you probably don't deserve it.
"The Communist Party only has itself to blame for that outcome. After decades of nationalist propaganda demonizing Tibetans as "terrorists", "splittists", "backwards fanatics", "CIA pawns" and other nice epithets, the Chinese public, without much access to any other information sources that those approved by the Party, have ended up taking propaganda for fact, and becoming a headache for their rulers, with their shrill ultra-nationalistic drift."
Let's assume that is true. How does self-immolation change public opinion in China?
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety, said Benjamin Franklin. If you think that striving for freedom is futile, you probably don't deserve it."
And self-immolation is the only way to struggle for freedom?
Daveycool: "I think the more people protest for freedom, the less likely the Chinese government is going to be able to loosen things up."
Surely you don't believe the converse: that the less they protest, the more the Chinese government will loosen things up.
"I actually don't know what it is the monks are burning themselves up for."
That's a bit of a puzzling statement. I'd say the respect of the 17 point agreement between Tibet and China for starters.
"There has to be a much more effective way to do this... without death on any side."
Name one. And remember, this is an authoritarian regime that is extremely sensitive about Tibet and has called the Dalai Lama "a jackal in Buddhist monk's robes".
Human Child,
"Surely you don't believe the converse: that the less they protest, the more the Chinese government will loosen things up."
Hu Yaobang in the 80's in fact loosened things up a lot. This included the TAR. Hu made a point of apologising to Tibetans for misrule, he made Han Chinese there learn Tibetan. He started down the path of elections for the country. This was all done WITHOUT any prodding via protests or riots.
But his liberalisation led to protests. The portesters probably saw an opportunity to demand for more freedoms. But this caused concern within the top party officials that the liberalisations had gone too far. It was probably difficult to argue that more freedom was the right path to take when the streets are filled with protestors. Hu was eventually sacked because of the protests.
In the Tibet region there were protests between 1987 through 1989. Within the CCP leadership, the link between too much freedom and chaos was made. Being more responsive to citizens, learning Tibetan, etc. were seen as failed experiments.
"That's a bit of a puzzling statement. I'd say the respect of the 17 point agreement between Tibet and China for starters."
Really? The Dalai Lama himself said that the 17 point agreement was thrust upon him. He claimed he signed it under duress. I presume that he didn't intend to keep that agreement in force.
"Name one. And remember, this is an authoritarian regime that is extremely sensitive about Tibet and has called the Dalai Lama "a jackal in Buddhist monk's robes"."
There are many. If I were Tibetan, I'd accept the fact that independence is simply not achievable in our lifetime. There is simply no credible pathways to achieve that. All paths that lead to independence will require Wile E. Coyote type plans achieve. Besides independence isn't a necessary prerequisite to a better life for Tibetans.
I see a good chunk of protest in Tibet as being knee jerk more than anything else. For instance, there is an advocacy for nomads against settling down. It reminds me of a stry I read about people advocating for panhandling. Instead of helping the downtrodden folks find shelter and a dignified way to make a living, they wanted to help panhandlers do a more efficient job of begging. I think there was even a course on how to steal and using supermarket carts effectively for the homeless. It was the stupidest bit of advocacy I saw until this one.
If I were a nomad, I'd take that offer to settle down. I might demand for a better deal (those apartment blocks are ugly but at least there's indoor plumbing and heat) but I certainly wouldn't just protest the idea.
There seems to be a lot of protesting going on. It's a waste of time. Instead of trying to protest for a change in the weather, why not assume that the weather is going to be bad for a while and plan a work around or something? This is the problem I have with self-immolation. All their assumptions about what would move the Chinese government or how to make lives better for Tibetans are wrong. It's incredible how they've been wrong for so long and they are still doing it.
Finally, the Dalai Lama is irrelevant. He can be the reincarnation of the compassioan boddhisattva or a jackal. It shoud make no difference to Tibetans. He is an outmoded, medieval idea. The "insitution" of the Dalai Lama is actually holding back the people of Tibet. I find it difficult not to laugh when religious and lay leaders talk of the mechanics of reincarnation for the next Dalai Lama as if it's real physical process (the soul can enter a woman's womb before the 14th is dead or something like that). Reincarnation! In the 21st Century! In any other circumstance a man walking around claiming to have been reincarnated would be given a room in a mental hospital but not this one... he is revered by Hollywood types. Have they completely lost it? Yes they have.
Daveycool, it seems you haven't been watching much the news all this year. Does the name "Mohammed Bouazizi" ring a bell?
Self-immolation is indeed an extreme protest action, which only denotes the level of desperation and hopelessness those who carry it out feel towards their situation and that of their people, but it has historically proved to be effective in some renowned cases (perhaps the Chinese public will now understand that Tibetans are certainly suffering under Chinese rule, and that news about their desire to free themselves is not just Western propaganda.)
I do agree that in the case of Tibet it is doubtful that this will bring the freedom Tibetans yearn for, because even if the action succeeds in sparking new protests against the Chinese regime, the Party has consistently shown no qualms at crushing any kind of challenge to their rule, using as much violence as needed. Specially against non-Han people long-considered inherently treacherous and inferior.
With the international community unwilling to stand up to their authoritarian banker, no amount of internal pressure will change its stance. Only the crumbling of the regime would create the chance for Tibet to escape from China's claws. But by then it may be already too late, at the current rate of Han immigration and forced cultural assimilation.
Daveycool, thanks for your reply, especially the part about the experiment in the '80s.
I am by no means an expert on Tibetan affairs, but I believe that the Dalai Lama, in his role as leader of the Tibetan government in exile (as opposed to his religious role) has not been asking for independence for a long time, preferring to ask for autonomy within China as per the 17 point agreement instead.
Among the other points of the agreement are the respect for Tibetan language/religion etc, and I think he's played it smartly by saying he just wants China to respect their side of the deal (not that it's helped him much in practice). I may have signed it under duress, but I'll uphold my end because I have integrity - they're the ones who are breaking the rules that they imposed upon me in the first place. Or something like that.
That self-immolation in itself won't bring freedom or autonomy is obvious but it certainly had something to do with that thing in Tunisia this year, or so I'm told. The problem for Tibetans is that there are no other ways to express themselves except via their government in exile (which is accused of being a jackal etc). So it's a desperate and horrible form of protest, but a form of protest nonetheless.
In terms of the Dalai Lama being irrelevant... I disagree. He was until very recently the head of a government in exile, that's not irrelevant, whether he's reincarnated or not. All candidates to the US Presidency profess their religion proudly and a lot of very sensible people I know are very religious despite the fact that we're in the 21st century. I've also been to Bhutan, where the whole country lives by religion for every aspect daily life, and even scientific minds like mine started wondering whether there wasn't a spirit in that lake after all. But regardless, the fact that he's head of a government makes him relevant.
Uff, Daveycool, what you suggest is, basically, that Tibetans just accept their tough luck and get over it. Since there is no solution, there is no need to worry about it, right? Very Zen.
But I doubt Tibetans will just accept that their culture and way of life has to end and become a tourist attraction, accept that millions of "foreigners" will immigrate to their land without their agreement, that they must accept being second-class citizens in their own homeland, that nomads need to accept being unemployed alcoholics in roadside towns with no future.
People are stubborn creatures, and Tibetans are not an exception. When faced with imposition and injustice, sometimes, a few brave ones, stand up, even if there is little chance of success. And sometimes, when you expect it the less, some of them do succeed. I guess that makes it all worth it.
Non of what the Dalai Lama says has any weight in true international politics. His "government"-in-exile is illegal and illegitimate in international law, which would void any and all points made. His opinion do not matter and is only held up in the West simply because the West see it as "useful" in some way. The reason why the government in-exile is not legitimate is because then anyone can just set up a competing government. Heck, if that were the case, I might as well set up a competing government in-exile claiming the whole of the United States, or Britain, or France but just cause I claim it does not make it true.
Secondly, the Government of China does not have to negotiate with anyone regarding any portion of itself just as the United States does not care about anyone talking about any portion of its land.
But as a stronger note China, as a unitary state has powers that rest solely with the Central Government (as opposed to a federal republic such as the United States) and as such has the power to create new provinces (or merge two) if it pleases. This means that if China want, it can choose to change laws in any of it provinces to whatever it wants whenever it want.
Thirdly, religion has very little to do with a modern progressive nation-state. You state that the US Presidency is "religious" yet this is actually a irrelevant with respect to the Constitution of the United States since there is separation of Church and State. Strangely, the United States seems to like its religiosity yet hate on other states that practice them, mainly the Muslim States such as Iran (Theocratic state). In fact, basically non of the modern, Western nation-states are Theocratic since it is "anti-democratic".
Human Child,
"I believe that the Dalai Lama, in his role as leader of the Tibetan government in exile (as opposed to his religious role) has not been asking for independence for a long time, preferring to ask for autonomy within China as per the 17 point agreement instead."
I think this point illustrates just how big a problem the Exiles have. They don't even know what they want. There isn't a coherent grand strategy because they change their goals based on what direction the prevailing wind (in the West) is blowing. In the 1950's the DL went for broke, seeking outright independence and rejecting the 17 point agreement by the end of the decade. THe CIA and the COld War probably gave them false hopes -- the wind blew in the independence direction. After decades of not getting anywhere, he decided to go for a do over and asked for the kind of autonomy that was in the 17 point agreement in the first place. The Hollywood wind was blowing in the direction of Ghandi-esque non-violent, poor simple monk resisting a giant evil monster entity.
If I was in charge in Beijing, and I already have a bias against him in the first place, I would have a very difficult time convincing my fellow politburo members to take this man and his "government" in exile seriously. When talks atrted, he again went for broke and demanded that areas beyond the TAR, with significant populations of ethnic Tibetans be administered under the umrella of autonomy.
As far as I'm concerned, there should be no mulligans because we just don't know the final parameters of negotiations.
"Among the other points of the agreement are the respect for Tibetan language/religion"
Which Hu Yaobang put into policy, 20 to 30 years ago. But this policy was not appreciated, instead there were more protests causing policy makers to (probably genuinely) believe that they had gone down the wrong path. As an aside, I think the conservative faction in the CCP won a rather lasting ideological victory when the USSR collapsed under Perestroika and that Glasnost thing -- the Chinese tried this before Gorbachev ever did. Unfortunately the liberals in the CCP haven't quite clawed their way back to being at the centre of power. All the conservatives have to say is "look, the Russians haven't yet recovered from that experiment". That, unfortunately, is quite true.
This is why I think protests are not just going to be useless, but often counterproductive. Yes, it's important to have a channel to express yourself. And China does not have many official ways to do this but self-immolation? I'm sorry, but personally I just cannot support this form of protest. At the very least, and I don't want to make light of this, if you're going to self-immolate, you probably should to spell out what exactly you want to accomplish. I don't mean some fuzzy freedom thing. I mean concrete things listed, if possible in concise bullet form sort of like that Liu Xiaobo's Charter 08.
"All candidates to the US Presidency profess their religion proudly"
Yes but they still have to be elected by the country, not reincarnated and discovered. In fact, it's better that US presidential candidates profess their belief in rational thinking instead of their srong faith.
Anyway, when "W" said that he was certain that God was on America's side when we went to war against Iraq, I felt very ill. My hunch turned out to be correct. Iraq was a disaster.
But at least the principle behind the separation of church and state is a fairly established one in the US. With Tibetans, the "church" and the "state" are rolled into one God-King entity (or four or five, depending on what school of Tibetan Buddhism you belong to). If we are to take the DL seriously about his aspiration for Tibetan democracy, he should make himself irrelevant. He should step out of the way completely and stop appearing in public, especially as a political figure. I mean make himself a hermit. Just let Lobsang Sangay do his job.
It is a bit strange to ask "what are they burning themselves for?" When people kill themselves, they act out of utter despair and that shows that they don't expect anything
As for the futile attempt to gain some freedom, do you in fact advise the tibetan people to wait for another 50 years under oppression until something else happens? What effective ways do you have in mind?
"they act out of utter despair and that shows that they don't expect anything"
I see
"As for the futile attempt to gain some freedom, do you in fact advise the tibetan people to wait for another 50 years under oppression until something else happens?"
And this will work how? Like Tunisia?
I've been through a large number of the posts,
when you begin to see judging by the comments - Westerners who wake up and go to bed in Freedom, or Chinese who only have access to news molded by Grandfather Wen,
judge Buddhists monks for not ms-interpreting Buddhism, or attempt to lecture people on what Freedom actually means and just how to fight for it...well all the facts and arguments in the world become pointless, all you can do is pray such people do not ever hold power, for there are enough of them in this world is do.
Re-posting earlier comment (Economist please note; Need a way of editing previous comments)
'I've been through a large number of the posts,
when you begin to see judging by the comments - Westerners who wake up and go to bed in Freedom, or Chinese who only have access to news molded by Grandfather Wen,
judge Buddhists monks for mis-interpreting Buddhism, or attempt to lecture people on what Freedom actually means and just how to fight for it...well all the facts and arguments in the world become pointless, all you can do is pray such people do not ever hold power, for there are enough of them in this world who do.'
The recent self-immolations are a continuation of what happened in 2008. It is highly likely that these extreme acts may have been instigated or even coordinated by some people in Dharamsala. News of these events was expediently and accurately released by the Free Tibet organizations even before Xinhua.
The only reaction from the Chinese government, IMHO, will be tighter control. Why? Because last time Beijing tried to loosen up its control it backfired spectacularly through the 2008 Tibet riots/protests.
Prior to 2008 Beijing's control was pretty loose. This can be seen by the fact that Tibet-Nepal border was pretty much open then. Many Tibetans crossed the border and returned to Tibet after a brief religious or/and political encounter with the exile community. It is highly likely that the organization/coordination of the 2008 Tibet riots/protests was facilitated through this group of people. As a result the Tibet-Nepal border has been pretty much closed after 2008.
Unfortunately the Kirti monastery has become the battle ground for Tibet's sovereignty. And I agree with the author that "Sichuan's restive monks can expect no mercy" from the Chinese government.
If needed the Chinese government can easily crank up another notch by conveniently using the immolations as propaganda material. Beijing knows exactly how to operate based on its prior experience with the self-immolations of a group of Falungong practitioners.
The self-immolations are not only self-destructing to the human-lives involved but also to their Independence cause as the extreme acts have in effect alienated public opinions for various reasons.
Finally it is worth noting that the Dalai Lama has not put out any statement to stop the self-immolations.
* Free Tibet , my holy foot *
Please do not liberate my country. I understand your energy, good nature and idealism. I was the same when I was at your age. I hope you're there to protest for China when your ancestors pushed opium to China. It is history that the Britain's evil parliament approved to send warships to enforce the opium trade to China.
First, thanks you all. Now, I'm a naturalized US citizen collecting generous welfare benefits. You do not understand how my life has been improved staying here. Just imagine living in the highest mountain in your country year round.
There are always folks wanting to be kings and queens. They have their ambitions and revolutionary ideas. The last ones went to India after the failed revolt sponsored by CIA. Please let me know who sponsor today's Tibetan movements – not seem to be a Mickey Mouse production. They do not speak for the common folks who just want a peaceful life.
News on Tibet must feed a lot of reporters in the west but hurt their conscience. Some are not true. The recent Tibetan riot was started when Han Chinese were murdered but was reported wrongly with photos that were bought and modified to indicate it was the other way round. To be fair, Chinese reporters are no angels.
The Chinese will not give up Tibet. It is the major water source for most of Asia. We get more from the Chinese than giving back. How many territories within a country become independent? Our standard of living improves substantially and so is our literacy rate.
The new train and the proposed 750 small dams to generate electricity are recent gifts. I bet the extraction of natural Chinese will improve our living standard further. It is the same as opening a casino in an Indian reservation. The benefits outnumber the drawbacks.
China had been ruled by Mongolians and Manchurians. We're one of the 55 minorities, same as the blacks in your country or the Quebec French in Canada. Dali Lama must be the best salesman on earth with the circus of silly and most likely uneducated Hollywood celebrities - most of them approved Polanski in raping a 13 year girl. If there were one like him for Mongolia, one for Manchuria, you guys will be busy for a long while.
Unless you can convince your congress to send soldiers to 'liberate' us, please do not stir up our rebellious sentiment towards the Chinese. The more you do, the more our folks suffer and 'disappear'.
Spend your energy elsewhere. The choices are unlimited: CEOs enjoying outrageous benefits/bonuses from companies receiving bailouts, or killing Iraqi children in a war you cannot afford. Hope you folks can find the mass destruction weapon in Iraq some days.
Everywhere in China, you see Tibetan cultures have been maintained – different from what your 'reporters' report. All the minorities have been exempted from the one-child policy. Check out this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqtS5k-nQK4&feature=related. Do they look oppressed to you?
It sounds like propaganda. I want you to know that I have no connection with the Chinese government. Your action on the wheel-chair torch bearer for Olympic showed the world how barbarous and coward you are.
I just want to be realistic and the world at least my world will be more peaceful without your demonstrations. I wrote the above from the mind of a silent majority of Tibetans.
The difference is that the casino opened on an Indian reservation is voted on by the members of that tribe, is owned by the members of the tribe and the money from it goes back to the locals.
The electricity from the dams, the minerals from the ground, those all belong to the Chinese company that built them.
It would be like if a bunch of white guys started going to Indian reservations and opening their own casinos without going through the tribal government first.
The whole history of Native Americans is the systematic disenfranchisement of a people in the name of modernization and progress. It's not that China doesn't mean well. It's just that it has a bit of a "Han Chinese Burden" going on that's reminiscent of the "White Man's Burden" a century ago. The Han Chinese are bringing progress and modernization to the backwards minorities and can't understand why they resist things that are good for them.
That mentality is dangerous because the a few unscrupulous merchants at the pointy end will use it to justify heinous acts against the local people. One of the things that helped colonialism persist for a long time was because small numbers of merchants making money by exploiting the locals were able to convince the folks back home that they were actually doing the locals a favor.
Also, how did you become a naturalized citizen and emigrate from China?
New Conservative,
"One of the things that helped colonialism persist for a long time was because small numbers of merchants making money by exploiting the locals were able to convince the folks back home that they were actually doing the locals a favor."
I can't be sure that there is wholesale or systemic exploitation of the local Tibetans here. The only thing I can see is something like Beijing perhaps buying Tibetan loyalty by modernising the place. The worse that can be said is that Beijing is maybe doing this unsuccessfully. Surprisingly Tibetan loyalty cannot be bought by a better standard of living. Who would have thunk it? They are a very unique people. Still, in my opinion, what's happening in Tibet is fundamentally different from colonial exploitation of the 18th through 20th century European strain. As I understand it, more money and resources go into Tibet than come out of it.
Now the issue of freedom. What can I say other than the observation that more protests actually causes more clampdown. Protests, espeically violent ones, for freedom actually has an opposite effect and you end up with less freedom. This is true anywhere in the world. There is a strong, no-brainer, type of correlation here. There has been a good volume of historical data supporting this idea. So what did Einstein say about insanity, that you keep doing something again and again hoping for a different outcome?
I would like to discuss some of the mistakes in your above statement. When you refer to "your ancestors" i hope you are speaking to the British only and not Americans. If you were EDUCATED at all as you claim others are not, you would realize that most current Americans are NOT descendents of the British. Most current Americans are of mixed nationalities. In addition I am confused are you American? Are you benefiting from American benefits? Then you ought to know better then to generalize ALL Americans and American reporters. And if you are enjoying "generous welfare" it is because this country allows to freedom of speech to speak out for those less fortunate and unable to make their needs know so they can also live a comfortable life. I agree with you that the violence from protests is leading to suffering but it does not change the facts that Tibetans are clearly being denied Human rights and freedom of speech. Also please do not generalize that all followers of HHDL are uneducated, I hold a degree and study with several other followers who are also highly educated.
Support you!
Bravo CHina!
You point out the essence: Tibet is the WATER source of all Chinese race. This is related to 1.3 billion Chinese lives.
Actually western media yells for independence just to FEED those stupid media/reporters. They also need to survive to earn bread right?
Tibet is the least possible place to be independent. NEVER actually. Because it's toooooo high platitude. Fat, obese, stupid, moron Americans/British, can you build an unparalleled Tibetan railway to benefit Tibetans and control Tibet?
NO! Even hard-working Indians cannot. Then shut up.
Tibetan railway opens doors for Tibetans who remained in their homeland for thousands of years; facilitating communication of all Chinese races.
After all, Tibetan is one minority of Chinese.
DaveyCool says: "Surprisingly Tibetan loyalty cannot be bought by a better standard of living. Who would have thunk it? They are a very unique people."
Dude - I'll pay you a million dollars a year...be my bitch...what do you thunk?
I'd demand trillion with a T and check your credit... didn't thunk, did you?
And have the Chinese asked what the Tibetans would want??
The Tibetans in China are Chinese and not only they know what they want but they get what they want too.
Jean Michel writes: "The Tibetans in China are Chinese and not only they know what they want but they get what they want too."
How about this...hold a referendum. Ask the Tibetans. You can go for a two fer...do they consider themselves Chinese and are they getting what they want!
I am not the Chinese Government and I cannot organise a referundum. But if you think you can organise a referundum in China, please do so. You will then see the result.
I'm a Han Chinese, never been to that part of China. Tibet and Tibetan had always been something as remote as Indian(in fact, I had known more about India/Indian than Tibet/Tibetans)in my mind, had no enthusiasm in what's going on there, untill recently, since I fell in love with a Tibetan girl, I started to have more knowlege about Tibet and Tibetans.
Being one of the ethnic minorities, they can enjoy so many favors from the government that we Han can only envy and hate Chinese government for applying this kind of descrimination within the country. This makdes us feel like we are the second class citizens in China. One of the appalling rules "benefits" Tibetan is if one committed a heinous crime like murder in a civil dispute, he's not going to have any death panelty, in most cases, even not a life sentence. If it were a Han Chinese, he is very likely being given a bullet from the trial.
To make no mistake, Chinese police can have done something badly on the rebellious monks. But I always hear such kind of violence and abuse taken by police on a lot more number of Han Chinese, like torture,intimidation and even brutal illegal murder. When it comes to religions, outsiders, especially media with biased interest, tend to exaggerate the story, for example religious oppression. Do you know majority of Han Chinese(including the top party elite leaders) have attachment to the same God with Tibetans? What does it matter to communist party if they just want to practise their religion? No, it didn't matter at all before Dalai Lama had the notion to rebel against China, simply wanting to satisfy his human nature greed of being a king of Tibet.
I'm neutral, if I were the president of China, with the overwhelming personal power(nobody in Today's China got this influence alone), I would order a referendum within the Tibetans about staying with China. If majority of them want to go away, why not let them do it? Even it's hurting China's so-called core interest, but to me, in long term, it benifits us with a peaceful neighbour in good relation. Again! having said that, we forgot political games! It's like those politicans in White House, they don't always dare to do what they belive is correct.
Then sadly, lots of outsiders like New Conservative, try to stir up the hostile sentiment based their inadequet knowledges about facts and brainless comments.
good for you! Now everything China does will be critivised even in China, but the government is really trying hard to perform good and make a better place, i guess. thank you for your long comment. I am a student from Shandong, and I enjoy your expressions.
so, what you mean is ,some of the conlonists(like Janpanese Militarism in 1930s) maybe out of a good purpose but irreversably led to evils...?
That is a good relfection.
Actually yes. I think Hu Yaobang pretty much did what they wanted even before they demanded for it:
"He was also in favor of a pragmatic policy in Tibet after realising the mistakes of previous policies. He ordered the withdrawal of thousands of Chinese Han cadres from the Tibet Autonomous Region following a May 1980 visit to the region, believing that Tibetans should be empowered to administer their own affairs.[12] Han Chinese who remained were required to learn Tibetan.[13] He set out six requirements to improve 'existing conditions', including the increase of state funds to the Autonomous Region, improvements in education, and "efforts to revive Tibetan culture".[14] At the same time, Hu stated that "anything that is not suited to Tibet's conditions should be rejected or modified".[13] Hu made a point of explicitly apologizing to Tibetans for China's misrule of the region during this trip"
He was forced to resign from office when these liberalisations (which include the rest of China) were thought to lead to protests. Specific to Tibet the protests/riots happened at various times between 1987 through 1989.
Both sides acted rashly. BOTH. It culminated in the declaration of Martial Law on 8 May 1989 when violence erupted. You can't blame Beijing for this. What should they have done? Let the violence continue?
If you look at things from Beijing's point of view, the Tibetans have not used the new policies to make reasonable requests, they've mostly abused the freedom. I'm sure there were ones who were reasonable but their voices had been drowned out but the strident, violent ones. The natural reaction is a clampdown. If I was in charge, I would have reacted the same way.
Fast forward to 2008. Beijing was caught off-guard again when they thought no step up in security was needed in the run-up to the Olympic Games. To their surprise, Tibet erupted into riots. It also seemed to be coordinated with some of the torch relay protests. If Beijing had learned something is that some elements of the Tibetan society (notably the temples) have and will abuse and small measure of freedom to cause violence.
In fact, there is no evidence that tight security should be lifted to any good. People often point to the fact that the temples are under heavy surveillance. But what do they expect? The temples are often where problems start. I'm not surprised that bad behaviour begets more scrutiny.
This is of course Beijing's point of view. Much of it fairly reasonable stuff considering they have tried everything except independence.
For the protestors, they have been led to believe that simple protests will cause Beijing to grant independence. This is a cute idea but it's very "Hollywood" in expectation (suprise surprise). Other than some meetings with world leaders and a nobel peace prize, there is nothing going for the independence camp. The numbers just don't add up and by a wide margin. More importantly these protests have undermined any trust the two sides have for each other. Considering the fact that independence is an impossible thing, this will only result in a much tougher time for the people in Tibet.
People often tell me that I shouldn't discourage protests just because the chances for independence through that route is impossible. As a poker player I can only say that when you are dealt a lousy hand you shouldn't force a play, you should keep your bankroll as intact as possible and fold. Don't waste your money, and in the case of Tibet, don't waste your lives.
I support your ideas not because i am a chinese ,but for I know my country.sometimes the media do not have moralty and is not obkective enough.if you want to know more about china .china welcome you !
You live in Germany for too long. Or your translation machine is malfunctioned.
Whatever you have said is pure propaganda and coverup of actual facts. If they are true why don't you open up your society for every one to see without any restrictions. Historically you colonised Tibet browbeating all neighbours and destroyed a peaceful society including their culture and religion and you threaten everyone to recognise that. You deny them basic human rights and why don't you give them autonomy at least.and the good things you did in tibet one day will show up when there is democracy in your society and people are really free.
In 1904 Britain made Tibet into a protectorate to stem Russian influence, prompting this quote from the Regent in Lhasa:
"When one has known the scorpion (meaning China) the frog (meaning Britain) is divine"
Says it all really...
@TonyP4 Obviously China needs to open up politically , have a multi party system, basically let people have a say , have a free press than it is unlikely that a piece of poorly frased ( what looks like a propaganda flier) would ever make it on these pages .. so to speak.
"I want you to know that I have no connection with the Chinese government. Your action on the wheel-chair torch bearer for Olympic showed the world how barbarous and coward you are."
I want you to know I have no connection to the "action on the wheel-chair torch bearer". Am I still barbarous and cowardly?
Free Tibet. Period.
I am a chinese who has been studying English as my major for 7 years. What i want to say is that Chinese government has mistakes in treating this issue. But this article itself is absolutely prejudiced toward Chinese government and distorting the truth. I grew up in a small town in Gansu Province in China, since childhood I have seen my counterparts of minorities enjoy all kinds of preferential treatments in applying for universities etc., the author of this article must have some evil intentions in writing this article. Hope people may have their own fair and square judgement. I was dreaming to be a reporter in the childhood, later, I just found how terrible and frightening some reporters can be. They are just used as slaves for different purposes to fool we readers.
•yizhanlan in reply to TonyP4 Nov 23rd 2011 12:23 GMT
I am a chinese who has been studying English as my major for 7 years. What i want to say is that Chinese government has mistakes in treating this issue. But this article itself is absolutely prejudiced toward Chinese government and distorting the truth.
I can very easily beleive your facts about the universities and preferential admission
In India we have a similiar system where the minorities are given preferential treatment in all aspects of Government Largesse.
BUT this article goes beyond that.. It talks about the unhappiness of the Tibetans. You can easily claim that it is the Dalai Llama's fault.. But then that means the Dalai LLama has a lot of communication with the Tibetans. If he does then the Chinese Government is totally incompetent - because they do stop people crossing back into Tibet from India by just shooting them - and they stop all other types of communications (radio, telephone etc etc)
Having accepted that rational, then you have to ask youerself - Why are the Tibetans so unhappy ???
Most of the world accepts that Humans require a lot of liberty for the procurement of happines - They do not require gun trotting soldiers strutting about in the streets ( this very fact shows a lot of distrust from the Chinese government towards the Tibetans).
BUT more then anything else, the Tibetans remember the genocide that the Chinese government conducted towards the Tibetans in the 1950's ( There were 1 million Tibetans killed - 17% of the total population) and a group of people from Spain called type Madrid group has already charged the Chinese government with this.
When people get ethnically cleansed - it makes them most unhappy.
Now a lot of your freind will start to throw insults at me as an Indian, But they will not make any rational and factual points to counter my points.
So watch this space
I can very easily beleive your facts about the universities and preferential admission
In India we have a similiar system where the minorities are given preferential treatment in all aspects of Government Largesse.
BUT this article goes beyond that.. It talks about the unhappiness of the Tibetans. You can easily claim that it is the Dalai Llama's fault.. But then that means the Dalai LLama has a lot of communication with the Tibetans. If he does then the Chinese Government is totally incompetent - because they do stop people crossing back into Tibet from India by just shooting them - and they stop all other types of communications (radio, telephone etc etc)
Having accepted that rational, then you have to ask youerself - Why are the Tibetans so unhappy ???
Most of the world accepts that Humans require a lot of liberty for the procurement of happines - They do not require gun trotting soldiers strutting about in the streets ( this very fact shows a lot of distrust from the Chinese government towards the Tibetans).
BUT more then anything else, the Tibetans remember the genocide that the Chinese government conducted towards the Tibetans in the 1950's ( There were 1 million Tibetans killed - 17% of the total population) and a group of people from Spain called type Madrid group has already charged the Chinese government with this.
When people get ethnically cleansed - it makes them most unhappy.
Now a lot of your freind will start to throw insults at me as an Indian, But they will not make any rational and factual points to counter my points.
So watch this space
@ Live-on-Hope
You had a long discussion with Daveycool, and he showed you your lie, Tibetan genocide. IT was made-up by Tibetan exil government and people like you.
Now you are like a typing monkey, woke up and repeating your lie. You are really desperate Indian. A hopeless Indian....
Right on the bull['s eye, Tony ! What an education the opium pushers will try to continue ignoring!
I can not agree with you more.
There's no reason for monks to protest against Chinese government as if they don't want to be splitted from China. It has been a long time that Tibet is a part of Chinese province. As Chinese can do a lot of things for Tibet, what can they do without a supported government? Will they start their autonomy even if that might drag them down of a deep cliff?
People, for better or ill, want to be free of their colonizers, even if it means economic catastrophe. Look at the track record of the former colonies following the exit of the colonial powers. Many very quickly had massive economic and civil collapse. That doesn't make their push for independence bad. Look at China itself, the British ran the best government that China has ever had in Hong Kong, as measured by wealth, health, education, corruption, rule of law, but that doesn't mean Britain gained the right to keep it.
Officially, the autonomous regions and prefectures are supposed to be autonomous. If they are just about to "start" their autonomy, it means that the Chinese government has not held up it's own laws.
Finally, there's a reason for everyone everywhere to protest against their government. Governments, whether they're the Chinese government, or the Swedish government, or the American government, all make mistakes and all can do better.
l support you words as a Chinese.
Is America going to give back the massive land to Indian?
Chinese government truly did some fearful things for some tibet monks. But those are just some special cases. So far, I didn't see so much things that those monks have had to protest. At least, if they wouldn't support split tibet from China, all this things would just be nothing. To me, I think they have to judge by themselves, whether it is worth to be without no country but a tibet county?
Sorry, but you really do not seem to have researched about this enoMaybe you read this article about a Report from the "Gongmen Law Research Center": http://www.savetibet.org/media-center/ict-news-reports/bold-report-beiji...
"The report's authors, several of whom attended the prestigious Beijing University Law School, conclude that China's strategies to ensure 'stability' in Tibet have failed, [...]"
One of these days when China fails to keep a complete lock down on media for a story against them they will find out how bad a decision it was to do it. The story of monks and nuns committing suicide might not lead to unrest among Tibetans as the Chinese government fear. However, if the story does get out somehow it will absolutely inflame the Tibetans for the simple reason that they kept it from them. Or maybe its because I'm American that a hush on free speech bothers me so bad. Maybe to the Tibetans and Chinese its just apart of life so they don't think about it. Since I do have free speech though I could never live under a government that controls everything in the Media.
American government also controls the media. The goverenment intentionally blocked protests against war in Iraq. Feel sorry that you are so simple and naive. Dont believe in everything the media tells you!
"I could never live under a government that controls everything in the Media" -
poor fool! You already do!
Umm…… Maybe people can not fully enjoy the free speach as you in US, but we should see some efforts of China's government does on improvement this situation th recent years. We do really expect different voices from varied sides. But remember not the interference in internal affairs.
Your freedom of speech is intact because you agree with your government and their ideals, which you adopt because you hear/read them in the media. You are a fortunate individual.
Your freedom of speech has not been tested because you happen to agree with the ideals of your government which you adopt because you see/hear/read about them in the media.
"You can't call yourself a monk unless you support the Dalai Lama", says a Songpan resident.
Hmmm... obviously a biased statement. What happens if a monk supports the Karmapa Lama or Shugden worship? It seems there is a religious police state within the Tibetan community.
Those who support the Karmapa still support the Dalai Lama. I am a Sakya Buddhist but I still love and respect the Dalai lama. They are not mutually exclusive - just like any other situation in life. If you like the Beatles, you can still like U2... Shugden 'workship' is quite a different issue altogether. There is no religious police state within the Tibetan Community as you suggest - people admire and support the Dalai Lama - as well as lots of other monks and nuns.
Yes but there must be those who are exclusively fans of the Rolling Stones and do not like the Beatles or anyone else. In fact I know people who like Michael Jackson or Mariah Carey (no kidding) and hate Led Zeppelin or Megadeth or Duns n Roses (why?). Does this make them less of music fans? No.
Monks can admire both the Dalai Lama and the Karmapa but that fact alone doesn't mean that there are no monks who disagree with the Dalai Lama. Shugden worshipping monks are still monks.
The fact is, you can call yourself a (Tibetan) monk even if you don't support the Dalai Lama. There probably won't be too many but it's possible. To say that you can't call yourself a monk unless you support the Dalai Lama is a form of religous policing.
Two things,
1) They were trying to kill themselves. It's hard to get terribly incensed about harsh punishments when the supposed victims would have burned themselves alive had they not been caught. Whatever the authorities do, prison etc. is not going to be worse than being lit on fire whilst covered in gasoline.
2) Suicide as protest is not new nor is it uniquely Tibetan. (The famous case of the monk protesting the Vietnam war this way springs to mind)
It used to happen in the rest of China before the revolution. Not in this way with the burning and the gasoline, but for example, if someone owed a debt that they couldn't pay, they might go kill themselves on the doorstep of the person who they owed the debt to. It was a huge loss of face and it was thought to bestow incredibly bad luck on the recipient. The threat of doing this would cause creditors to give easier terms.
I sympathize with the Tibetans but this isn't going to work.
"I sympathize with the Tibetans but this isn't going to work."
um... what exactly is it that they are protesting about?
You are wrong on the first count.. and I'm sure no one was saying that self-immolation is uniquely a Tibetan thing. Torture in prison beats self-immolation. I bet that the Chinese can make it worse. From what I gather the pain from immolation lasts half a minute before pain is ostensibly over. The torture can last forever, and you never know what's next. So some people can get terribly incensed. This isn't going to work, maybe maybe not, but it could inspire some more rebellion. There are plenty of cases of immolation that have done so--as your Vietnamese one did.
Independence, especially in religion.
not religion.
actually China government offers many priorities for the minorities ang people with serious beliefs, 'cause in their deep heart people think they are respectable. Why not live safely and create a better place? People who kill themselves say they love the People? I donot buy it.
actually, i still wonder why the tibetans consitently protest? chinese central goverament spare a lot of money(millions of dollars, not precisely)to tibet. Besides, a series of favourble policy are applied in tibet every year, for instance, the tibetans do not have to conform to the "one child policy" and they can be enrolled by universities with very low credits, which is envyed by the mainland students very much .the tibetans enjoy more benifits than the chinese mainlanders in medicare, taxtation,education,etc. consequently, numerous chinese people were rensentful at tibetans continuing uprest, esp. the 2008 olympic torch-relay chaos they created. in westerns' eyes, tibet is a mysterious and holy place. but it was not the least a happy place when the serf systerm and the autocracy existed. you having been criticizing the CPC is a autocratic party, but you may be not aware that the CPC once deliberated a number of slaves. Do not blind your mind with your countrys' mouthpiece, i admit i am also blinded by my country' mouthpiece. make comments after you have known all about it, and that makes you a responsible man.
On your first point, you mis-understand the emotion that causes that drives them to do it, you mis-understand the impact of the alternative.
It seems to be religious liberty.
The authorities keeps all tourists from the heartland,so no
one knows what is exactly happening there.
It seems to be religious liberty.
The authorities keeps all tourists from the heartland,so no
one knows what is exactly happening there.
Have you ever try to go to Tibet at all ? Or just guessing!!
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Colorado Disc Sports Association
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Time: August 26, 2012 all day
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City/Town: Arvada,CO
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Oh YES PLZ!!! im all for any type of "energy blasts' or what have u....
After seeing Pixel Dan's video review of the Scarabus figures I want some energy bursts for my MOTUC figures. The energy flame that fits over Scarabus' hand looks awesome and I would love transparent energy burst attachments for my MOTUC figures. Toyguru stated in one of the SDCC videos that Thunder Punch He-Man will probably come with an energy burst that would attach to his punching arm, which is great, but I want more. For instance, they could be attached to: Figures hands, any of the Power Swords, any of the staffs, the cosmic key, Trap Jaw and Roboto's gun attachments, etc. How do the rest of you feel?
Last edited by Danavas; August 9, 2011 at 10:47pm.
Oh YES PLZ!!! im all for any type of "energy blasts' or what have u....
Man lives in the sunlit world of what he believes to be reality.
But...there is, unseen by most, an underworld, a place that is just as real,
but not as brightly lit... a DARKSIDE.
I have been a fan of this since its use in the Attack of the Clones toyline. Thunder Punch HM is a great place to start it, but I'd love to get some for all the reasons you stated.
Not to sound like a creepy cheerleader for Uki, but it's nice to know there is at least one person on this forum who is extremely positive & friendly all the time. I don't think I could be that nice even if you paid me. If we ever give out awards for "forum member of the month", Uki gets my vote. -Mr. Shokoti
Yes, I'd love ANYTHING that contributes to display value, and things like this would be perfect.
would love to see that on some of those magic using characters!
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Some sort of lightning blast to attach to the Power Sword for the transformation pose would be sweet!
I'm all for this as well! LOVe them on the Scarabus figures, very happy about the ones we'll be getting with TP He-Man and BG Evil-Lynn, so I also say give us more!
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My feelings, as well; I thought those accessories just made some of those Star Wars toys of the time. A few bursts for swords and guns, maybe some eldritch energy for the hands of the magic makers, and a bucket spilling water to fit on Duncan's head (especially now that we have Filmation rights).
"I will use this power for all the good that can be done, to work for peace, to encourage virtue, and above all, to preserve life in all its forms..." Superman
I've actually been supprised that Spymonkey hasnt already done this. I assumed after I saw the Green Lantern type blasts, that we would in fact see just this thing.
Radiating energy, lightning, fire, ect... Some for hands some to atatch to blades and staves, ect...
So far not so much.
But yes, I support this.
So hoping this sort of thing would have made it into MOTU by now... the Sorceress and Shadow Weaver are two upcoming figures that come to mind that should have some sort of "magic spell" type of translucent snap-on-to-the-hand type of accessory. I like that SW comes with a wand and a book, but otherwise she looks a tad bland. An energy burst (or plastic snap-on versions of those spinning black cloud formations) would liven Shadow Weaver up for sure! Bring on energy bursts!
Count me out. I think they're cheep looking and campy.
I hated it on the scarabus and I hate them on the masters.
Not saying it's a bad idea. Just not my cup o'tea.
Edit:I meant to say campy. Not camping. not sure what I was thinking.
Last edited by midor; August 9, 2011 at 11:49am.
I'd love this! I definitely buy an accessory pack full of this kind of stuff (and would love for then to be in future figure boxes). If molded well (and 4H would) they look awesome.
Im happy that Thunder Punch Heman will come with energy effects. We need more of this in MOTUC.
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Too bad they didn't give Orko a flip-top hat with a peg on it - lots of amusing & relevant "bursts" could pop out of his head & make him look a little bit more interesting....
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I'd like to not only get energy blasts packaged with individual figures but an entire pack of generic ones that could be snapped onto most any figure. A cool idea for a diorama would be a large transformation burst on a base which He-Man could stand holding his sword as aloft as his joints will allow. This could be in addition to a lightning bolt which would snap onto his sword. There could even be a space underneath the base to insert a small light if we wanted to illuminate the whole energy burst. Just throwing the idea out there.
I've been wanting this since I started this line!
I was really hoping for one with TP He-Man, so I'm happy with that. I don't expect them all the time, but it would be really cool at least for the characters whose figures had action features that weren't all that visual.
I was hoping for a water/venom squirt for Kobra Khan, but I'm very happy now that I've seen all the other stuff he's got. Some sort of tornado effect for Sy-Klone would have rocked, but his hoola hoop kind of simulates the spinning enough for me. Figures like TP He-Man who don't have much new going on? Bring on the effects!
A fourth chest plate for the BA figures that's got a bright yellow burst that looks like it's being hit would be amazing!
Yup, I'm all for this! I've been thinking of a thunder impact for TP He-Man since early talks of his figure started, and I feel that kinda stuff would work wonders in all parts of this line. Would have been awesome with Faceless One and Count Marzo, but they have already past. I think they should seriously consider it going into the future!
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Count me in on the power bursts because I'm all for it. I can wait for my Thunder Punch He-Man.
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I'd appreciate energy bursts in MotUC, it looked perfect when the flame came out of Evil-Lyn Staction's hand in the 200X line... It simply rocks!!!
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Please kindly stop using Nvidia hardware then. It's not for hypocrites like you all.
Please move to Intel IGPs/GPUs on Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake, Skymont etc.
as a GNU fanboy i've been called a communist before but never a nazi.....
i'm shaking with rage here [H]old me back!!
Please kindly stop using Nvidia hardware then. It's not for hypocrites like you all.
Please move to Intel IGPs/GPUs on Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake, Skymont etc.
Don't let facts get in the way of his quest!
He is saving us from NAZIS! That's serious.
I don't use nvidia hardware, the only time i come across it is when i pull some old 8800gt out of the garbage
and even then they're usually shit overheated and ready to go back in the garbage
infact i know of cottage industries that attempt to reflow them - to be fair sometimes it does work
The whole defence for Nvidia's driver (and the reason why Linus tolerates it, despite hating it) is that it is a driver which runs on several operating systems and as such it is not derivative of the Linux kernel, it merely interfaces with it. It does the same thing on all systems, so it can run just fine without Linux. It ran on Windows before it ran on Linux, and it can run just fine without Linux, so there is a good argument that the current blob is not derivative of Linux kernel code.
However, if you start adding functionality which uses specialised internal functions of the GPLed kernel, which only exists in the Linux kernel, and for the express purpose of tight cooperation with other (partly GPL) drivers which only exist inside the Linux kernel, then it is hard to argue that these parts of your blob are not derivative work of the kernel. You can argue the X11 also works on BSDs, so it's not derivative of that, but DMA_BUF is Linux-only, and GPL to boot. You can't claim it's generic: without Linux, it cannot possibly work. It was especially written only to work with a special, Linux-only subsystem. That's as derivative as you can get. And if you GPL those parts as per licence requirements, then you have to GPL it all.
Nvidia's strategy worked well as long as they didn't touch any part of Linux and did it all themselves. Optimus screwed them up -- you can't avoid GPL code, and you can't simply wish the licence away like they are trying to.
Last edited by pingufunkybeat; 10-18-2012 at 06:28 PM.
Of course, but it's a potential problem for distributors. Linus has specified that he (unlike Alan Cox) does not consider the current Nvidia blob to be in violation of the GPL, for the reasons I listed.
Actually my new notebook has the ivy bridge intel gpu and a hd 7970m with amd's enduro. I'm looking forward to using it with dma-buf in the not so far future.
<troll>U jelly because your beloved superior nvidia cards run on too proprietary drivers to use it?</troll>
Theoretically, how many people directly hold copyright for code used for dma-buf? Are there considerations to get them all together and sign some document that they won't sue nvidia for using prime/dma-buf, of course totally unsupported? Do they not want it? Would nvidia not do it?
Last edited by ChrisXY; 10-18-2012 at 06:46 PM.


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Toggle shoutbox NYJETSFAN BANTER
Kerry Rhodes Vs Bob Sanders
Posted 29 January 2007 - 07:26 PM
Posted 29 January 2007 - 07:35 PM
Posted 29 January 2007 - 07:37 PM
i couldnt have said it any better!
Posted 29 January 2007 - 07:41 PM
Posted 29 January 2007 - 07:48 PM
Posted 29 January 2007 - 07:48 PM
Posted 29 January 2007 - 07:51 PM
I was under the impression, or this is how it was in high school, that FS was a roamer and more pass coverage and last man back position where as SS was first to act in the middle and TE middle routes and what not.
Posted 29 January 2007 - 07:55 PM
Oh i never talked about trading Rhodes hes one of my favorite players. I talked about trading Coleman. It'll be 10 years b4 Mangini gets wrinkles lmao i was just doing some dreaming of having both of the as our safteys
Posted 29 January 2007 - 08:06 PM
NO NO NO....i didnt mean "trade" him like trade the colts rhodes for sanders.....i just meant i wouldnt trade off rhodes for sanders since the question...i thought....was who we like better...
Posted 29 January 2007 - 08:23 PM
That's most important to me. Sanders, like a lot of DBs, misses a lot of tackles going for the huge hit that will get him on "Jacked Up." Rhodes is a really impressive tackler.
Posted 29 January 2007 - 08:50 PM
And its not like he can't step back and plant someone. Ask Maroney if Rhodes is a hard hitter
Posted 29 January 2007 - 09:04 PM
the strong safety plays to the strength of the offensive formation, which is almost always where they have more recievers. this puts them into more of a coverage role while the free safety is "free" to play in run support
Posted 29 January 2007 - 09:21 PM
Then why is certain sub-sets does the SS line up closer to the line of scrimmage, or in front of the FS before the snap? I played Safety in high school and I roamed whil the other safety was run and linebacker support, he was SS on the Depth chart.
Posted 29 January 2007 - 09:37 PM
Posted 30 January 2007 - 12:01 AM
Funny that the only knock on the guy was that he wasn't physical enough. People over analyze the players way too much prior to the draft and I think Kerry Rhodes is a prime example of that. Now which one is better.... I'll tell you it's hard to say considering they both play so differently. Sanders is a pro bowl safety who runs faster than Deangelo Hall... that's nice. However, I like Rhodes and I like how the Jets use them.
However I find it nearly impossible and pointless to try and say who's better. It depends on the team at the end of the day and Bob Sanders has his team in the Superbowl because he's a great player and contributes HEAVILY to that defense. Kerry Rhodes played great this season, he disappeared a few games this year but all in all he was the best Safety in the league. This is like comparing apples to oranges. They both taste good, it's just a matter of preference. I love Kerry Rhodes but I think Bob Sanders might be better right now.
Posted 30 January 2007 - 04:39 AM
Posted 30 January 2007 - 10:45 AM


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The Apostle to the Gentiles
Take some time in the next month to reacquaint yourself with Paul's career, perhaps through skimming the book of Acts or reviewing a book that gives a summary of his life and ministry. Consider how God's unexpected grace was operative ...Read More
The Death of John
Herod Antipas beheaded John and did not give him a formal trial, thereby breaking the Mosaic code. We see in Matthew 14:9 that Herod did this because he wanted to save face and not look like a fool in front ...Read More
More than a Prophet
John Calvin says the new covenant minister's preaching is greater than John the Baptist's because "it holds out Christ as having rendered complete and eternal satisfaction by his one sacrifice, as the conqueror of death and the Lord of life, ...Read More
Disciples from John
Matthew Henry writes: "The remaining unbelief of good men may sometimes, in an hour of temptation, strike at the root, and call in question the most fundamental truths which were thought to be well settled. The best saints have need ...Read More
With Spirit and Fire
The purifying work of the Holy Spirit commences in the believer when he first turns to Christ. Sometimes the Spirit works on us in the fire of adversity, through which the Lord promises to take us for His good purposes ...Read More
John's Message and Baptism
We will talk about the kingdom and its coming over the course of our study this year. For now, note that God's kingdom did not come with military force, as was popularly expected, but in the life, death, and resurrection ...Read More
John Cries in the Wilderness
John the Baptist was the primary herald of Christ in his day, but the task of bearing witness to the Savior was not laid solely upon him. Jesus Himself commissioned first the apostles, and secondly, the entire church to testify ...Read More
Three Gifts for the King
If our Lord at times seems "crazy" or "foolish" to the world because of His life and message (Mark 3:20–21), we can expect the world to feel the same about us when we are true to Him. Unfortunately, too many ...Read More
The Wise Men Rejoice
The Father will ensure that His Son will be glorified despite all obstacles (John 12:23). Mary has been forced to give birth to the Messiah in a less than ideal setting (Luke 2:7). Herod, who lives under the Lord's covenant, ...Read More
Visitors from the East
The wise men are likely from Babylon and have had to take a long and arduous journey to find Jesus. Matthew Henry draws this application from this event: "Those who truly desire to know Christ, and find him, will not ...Read More
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Home » News & Information » Newsletter
Our biweekly agency e-Newsletter, Impact, highlights top USAID stories from Washington DC and around the world.
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Newsletter Archive
- February 2015: A Final Note From Raj
- July/August 2014: U.S.-Africa Leaders Summit
- June 2014: Acting On The Call - Let Girls Learn - Global Citizen
- May 2014: Annual Letter - Ending Extreme Poverty - Feed The Future
- April 2014: Global Development Lab - Afghan Elections
- November 26, 2013: Ending Extreme Poverty - USAID Mobilizes Typhoon Response - International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women - Celebrating Entrepreneurship Week at USAID
- September 19, 2013: Fall Semester Tour Starts in Arkansas, North Carolina - Walmart, USAID Team Up to Back Farmers in Developing World - MDG Countdown and Persons with Disabilities on U.N. General Assembly Agenda - Celebrating International Day of Democracy - Working to End Preventable Child Deaths in Latin America - Innovation...We Got That - Career Openings at USAID
- September 4, 2013: USAID & Starbucks Support Colombian Small-Coffee Farmers - Working Together for Malnutrition - Agency Official Talks Syria Aid on Middle East Trip - Helping Children in Adversity - Focusing on Water - Delivering on Results - Gearing up for the Fall Semester at USAID - Bangladesh: Mission of the Month Spotlight - World Humanitarian Day - Career Openings at USAID
- August 12, 2013: Global Education Takes Center Stage - "Saving Lives" Aim of Award Winners - U.S. Increases Syria Aid - Celebrating International Youth Day - Welcome to the Data Revolution - Roundtable Seeks Solutions to Extreme Poverty - Agency Swears in 4 New Mission Directors
- July 30, 2013: Feed the Future: Growing Innovation, Harvesting Results - USAID Launches New Gender Program in Afghanistan - Humanitarian Concerns - Saving Lives at Birth Grand Challenge - U.S. Economic Assistance to Eastern Europe and Eurasia Marks 20 Years - Nobel Laureate Muhammad Yunus Visits USAID - USAID In The News
- July 15, 2013: Administrator Shah Travels with President Obama to Africa - Feed The Future Report Launch - Agency Steps Up Cholera Fight - Career Openings at USAID - USAID In The News
- June 24, 2013: $300 Million in Additional Assistance for Syria - New Partnership to Improve Connectivity in Latin America - Administrator Shah Travels to India with Secretary Kerry - Working to Spur Economic Growth in Haiti - Comment on our draft BioDiversity Policy - Career Openings at USAID - USAID in the News - Upcoming Events
- May 24, 2013: USAID Launches Water Strategy and Announces DIV WASH Grantees - Chicago Council on Global Affairs Symposium - Report Launches on Mobile Technology in Afghanistan - Innovative Partnership Announced to Speed-up Delivery of Life-Saving Medicines to Developing World - USAID Partners with Qualcomm to Combat Development Challenges - Public ACVFA Meeting Announced: June 12, 2013 - Career Openings at USAID - USAID In the News - Help us Get to 100,000 Followers on Facebook
- April 26, 2013: USAID Administrator Shah Testifies on the President's FY14 Budget Request - USAID Commemorates World Malaria Day - USAID In The News - Career Opportunity
- April 12, 2013: Food Aid Reform is Focus of President's 2014 Budget - Save the Children Advocacy Summit in D.C. - Event Marks New LGBT Partnership - CTIP White House Events and Field Guide Release - Land Rights Conference Held at World Bank - USAID In The News
- March 29, 2013: First Ever USAID Forward Progress Report is Released, Marking World TB Day,Global Health Journal Launched, Deputy Administrator Steinberg Visits Bangladesh and Thailand to Engage on Climate Change and LGBT Issues, USAID In the News
- March 15, 2013: This year's International Women's Day theme was A Promise is a Promise: Time for Action to End Violence against Women. A human rights violation that often targets the most vulnerable among us, gender-based violence (GBV), limits individual and societal development with high human and economic costs. Globally, one out of three women will be beaten, coerced into sex, or otherwise abused in her lifetime, with rates of abuse reaching 70 percent in some countries.
- March 1, 2013: U.S. Government Historic Visit to Somalia, Administrator Shah Travels to India and Burma, USAID Wins Mobile Development Award, International Women's Day: Call for Your Photos, DC Details, USAID In the News
- February 15, 2013: USAID Welcomes Secretary of State Kerry, State of the Union Calls for the Elimination of Extreme Poverty, New Public-Private Partnership Launched in El Salvador, A New Investment Model for Afghanistan, Tech Challenge for Atrocity Prevention Announces First-Round Winners, USAID Participates in 2013 Social Media Week, USAID In the News
- February 1, 2013: Bidding Secretary Clinton Farewell, Additional Humanitarian Aid for the Syrian People, USAID Participates in 2013 Social Media Week, USAID In the News
- January 18, 2013: African Nations Renew Their Promise to Reduce Childhood Mortality, Administrator Shah Travels to Nigeria, Ongoing Efforts for Syrian Crisis, Counter-Trafficking in Persons Campus Challenge Event at Arizona State University, Situation in Afghanistan Improving
- December 14, 2012: New Opportunities for Higher Education in Burma, White House Hosts Development Datajam, Deputy Administrator Steinberg Visits Latin America, Harnessing Agricultural Innovation, USAID In The News
- November 30, 2012: Administrator Shah Travels to Turkey to Visit Syrian Refugees, Historic Presidential Visit to Burma Highlights USAID Mission, 2012 World AIDS Day for AIDS-Free Generation, D.C. Details: Upcoming Events
- November 2, 2012: Hurricane Sandy Relief Efforts in Haiti, New USAID Youth Policy, Secretary Clinton Visits Haiti, Devex Impact, Atrocity Prevention, USAID in the News
- October 19, 2012: World Food Prize: Innovating for Impact, Celebrating International Day of the Girl, A Campus Challenge for Atrocity & Counter-Trafficking, New USAID Graduate Fellowship
- October 5, 2012: Fall Semester: Virtual Classroom on Mobile Money, Community Building in the Central African Republic, Citizen Security in Latin America, Global Impact Investing, USAID in the News
- September 21, 2012: What Could be Better than Cash?, USAID Goes to the UN, USAID's Fall Semester, Hacking for Hunger, Neglected Tropical Diseases, FrontLines: Youth and Technology
- September 7, 2012: United States Provides Additional Aid to Help Syrians, Administrator Shah Leads U.S. Delegation to Yemen Donor Conference, Celebrating International Literacy Day, USAID Returns to Burma after 24 Years, Utilizing Mobile Technology to Strengthen Education, Providing Disaster Relief to Iranians
- August 24, 2012: World Humanitarian Day, Responding to the Humanitarian Crisis in Syria, Addressing Gender-Based Violence Globally, From the White House: Presidential Innovation Fellows, Ready To Use Therapeutic Food, Providing Disaster Relief to Iranians
- August 10, 2012: A Vision for "Open Source Development", Olympic Gold Medalist is USAID Development Champion, Ramadan Nights: Feeding the Future, USAID in the News
- July 27, 2012: USAID Participates in 2012 AIDS Week, One Year Later: Humanitarian Response in the Horn of Africa, Celebrating the work of American Diaspora Communities, FrontLines: The Economic Growth Issue, USAID In the News
- July 13, 2012: World Leaders Reaffirm Commitment to Afghanistan, London Family Planning Summit, How We Can End Preventable Child Deaths, New Land Tenure Podcast from the Editors of FrontLines, USAID in the News
- June 29, 2012: Humanitarian and Development Assistance for Yemen: On the Ground, New Data on Foreign Assistance Dashboard, The Power of the Crowd, Democracy, Human Rights, and Governance, Progress, Promise, and Peril, USAID in the News
- June 15, 2012: Exploring the Frontiers in Development, Call to Action: A Promise Renewed, The New USAID.gov, The Next Grand Challenge: Powering Agriculture, USAID Closes Panama Mission, UNICEF Chief Discusses Child Survival, USAID in the News
Last updated: May 01, 2015