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I understand that pro se defendants generally get a longer leash when speaking to their juries. Has anyone seen how a court handled a pro se defendant attempting to explain to a jury that they should nullify?
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I understand that pro se defendants generally get a longer leash when speaking to their juries. Has anyone seen how a court handled a pro se defendant attempting to explain to a jury that they should nullify?
If you live outside of NH and you're denied good information about jury nullification, point your web browser to www.jurybox.org.
It's great that they can give confirming quotes of both Adams and Jefferson on their front page, suggesting that it wasn't a politically controversial question among the founders.
The sentence in the article that bothered me was the notorious refusal of white juries to convict a white defendant who had killed a black person. This is the ugly side of jury nullification. If the jury nullifies the inane or unjust application of a law, it is a triumph of reason and democracy. The citizen as juror is a powerful metaphor for Americans. Ever seen the film 12 Angry Men? It's a good film, but not as good as To Kill a Mockingbird. In that film Atticus Finch fights the ugly opposite of our ideal of impartial, noble citizen-juror: a jury of Southern racists who want to see a black man hang because he is black. I suppose the question is, which abuse is most likely, the noble law being ignored by ignoble jury, or the noble jury being stymied by idiotic law?
You make quite a few valid points except for leading out the part about ignoble police officers, prosecutors and judges as well. Each should act as a couterbalance to the other, yet the reality is that they all seem to act in unison towards a conviction.
Your objection is not accurate. Judges, for example, demand that charges be brought within a certain limited period of time after an arrest in order to hold the arrestee. Prosecutors demand sufficient evidence to support a complaint before they will proceed to trial. At trial, judges will dismiss charges not sufficiently supported by the evidence.
The usual case is that suspects are arrested, tried, and convicted with police and prosecutors working together, and without much problem with the judge, but that is a good thing. Were it not so, it would mean that people were being arrested and tried who should not have been.
Laws cannot possibly take into account all possible scenarios and circumstances. There will always be unintended consequences of laws. That is where a jury's judgement may provide better justice than the letter of the law.
Also, an important use of jury nullification should be to nullify absurd minimum penalty laws and/or "knee jerk" laws that legislators feel compelled to make after a high profile tragedy without regard for unintended consequences. An example of that is the current wave of ant-bullying laws sweeping the nation. Lots of innocent kids will get swept up in that law if they even look cross-eyed at another kid.
In high school in the 1960s I was bullied regularly, on a weekly basis, for6 years. NOTHING was done to protect me or punish the perpetrators. My mother was told to buy self defense lessons for me. Note, I had asthma so bad I could hardly walk from one classroom to another, so I could neither run away nor exert myself in defensive action.
That something is being done about bullying is a good thing, and not before time. However, common sense must be used, as it wasn't in my youth.
Good article - but it would be nice to hear of the background of this very important right!
John Lilburne (free born John) took it upon himself, when defending himself against charges of treason in 1649, to tell the jury that they could ignore the judge because judges represented 'Norman intruders' and that any Englishman could only be deprived of his liberty by the 'judgement of his peers, and *or* by the law of the land'. (So sayeth Magna Carta)
Thus Mr. Lilburne was able to escape imprisonment, and escaped the noose in 1653 when a jury found him 'guilty of no crime worthy of death'.
However, Cromwell got him in the end by using extraordinary rendition and detention without charge on the island of Jersey, where English liberties could not save him. An interesting parallel with today I think.
In honour of independence day
July 3rd, 2012
American Taxpayer Independence Day
Top banks say they not too big to fail
By Alexandra Alper and David Henry
(Reuters) - Nine of the largest global banks on Tuesday expressed confidence they can be salvaged or dismantled without taxpayer bailouts if they became insolvent, as U.S. regulators released public portions of these banks' "living wills".
The documents, required by the 2010 Dodd-Frank financial reform law, aim to end too-big-to-fail bailouts by mapping out ways that, in theory, mortally-wounded banks could go out of business without wrecking the financial system.
The banks argued in the public documents that their resolution plans will work, with no cost to taxpayers or great consequence to the financial system. They used technical generalities in their conclusions without specifically addressing the unpredictable and vicious nature of a credit crisis.
The bank resolution documents can be found at: http://www.federalreserve.gov/bankinforeg/resolution-plans.htm
"Jury nullification"
Does this give the jury the right to re-write the laws?
Nope, just to ignore them in certain cases.
Good answer!!!
Is it a good answer?
In what other contexts is it okay for an individual to decide "I don't like this law, I'm going to ignore it?"
Should we all have the "right" not to pay a tax we disagree with? Should we all have the "right" to go 85 mph if we think 65 mphs is an unreasonably slow speed limit? In jury context, how about the flip side of the equation: if a jury really really WANTS to convict a defendant because it seems "just" to do so, should they have the "right" to convict even if the law would otherwise let the defendant off on a technicality?
You're merely being contrarian. Not that there are many, if any absolutes, but yes, ignoring a law can be right action, and having a jury capable of recognizing this in spite of the law is a good thing.
Most recent example-- a lifeguard who went outside his workplace to save someone's life-- and got fired for violating company policy that forbade him to leave his area.
I'm not "merely" being contrarian -- I flat out oppose the notion of jury nullification as a cancer that undermines our democratic process.
You might think a little splash of anarchy makes our society a little more interesting, but I view it as a step away from the rule of law and a step towards "the ends justify the means".
I don't think it's anarchy. The US Constitution gives juries an unqualified power to acquit, and the Constitution is the highest law of the land.
It's not an issue of "the end justifies the means". The "end" is justice, the "means" is the law. The question of jury nullification boils down to a choice between the means and the end. If the means will not accomplish the end, which should be pre-eminent? Jury nullification argues the latter.
Of course jury nullification can (and has been) abused. So has the law.
It is a good answer in that the jury should not be able to re-write the laws.
Regarding, should the laws be ignored in certain cases – I don't think the laws should be ignored by the jury. If the laws are simply ignored, then this is a re-writing of the laws regarding the case at-hand.
I believe the jury should vote on guilt or innocents according to the laws and the facts presented to them. However, if the jury believes that there are extenuating circumstances, then their belief in extenuating circumstances should be addressed somehow.
If the laws are unjust, then they should be repealed.
To protect a defendant/plaintiff from juror misconduct; the jurors should be required to substantiate (provide reasons for) their vote regarding guilt or innocents.
I like how he added a disclaimer that it wasn't related to the Supreme Courts Health Care Decision.
"...which I'm spending indoors revelling in the one thing that truly makes life livable in modern America: powerful air-conditioning..."
If it gets any warmer, Canada's weather may even become liveable. :)
Well, if I understand correctly, Canada *is* the largest exporter of petroleum to the US. Which, of course means that AGW is a conspiracy-- not of junk science, but of Canada trying to make itself more habitable.
Exactly! And now they want to send the Key Stone Pipeline right through the heart of the US to make us even hotter!
Those Canucks. Always scheming... :)
If judging "the application of the law" means judging whether the law is applicable in light of the facts, nothing changes. That's what juries are currently instructed to do. If it means judging whether the law should be applied, that's permission to ask for nullification and that changes everything. I'd think judges will go with the first interpretation. If the latter was intended, the drafter should be fired.
Hear, hear! And as my daughter, a Federal Defender in the Eastern District of Washington, might say, "Mucho gusto."
She'd kill me if she knew I posted this.
I wish I had received those instructions when I was on a jury here in California for what we all knew was a third strke for what we generally also agreed was a very minor.. The defendant was clearly guilty of the trivial drug possession charge and the rest of the jurors were all prepared to convict. I withdrew from the jury. The alternate voted to convict. I wish I'd hung the jury and nullified the decision rather than simply following the judge's instructions. With the NH instructions I might have realized I had that option.
If you don't like the application of the law, your duty as a citizen and a voter is to have your state change it's law. If you can get a majority of your fellow citizens to agree with you, then you won't have to worry about jury nullification regarding this issue (since it won't come up). Conversely, if you can't get a majority of your fellow citizens to agree with you, then what gives you the right to unilaterally disregard a law that everybody else in your democratic society appears to want?
This is the problem I have with the concept of jury nullification in a democratic society. Jury nullification might have a place in a monarchy or a totalitarian state (for whatever force a jury verdict might have in such an environment), but in a democracy you end up with the laws that the majority of people want, and if they don't like the law it eventually gets removed. To give a person the "right" to disregard a law that they ideosyncratically might not like, but everyone else wants, is the equivalent of blowing a raspberry at the democratic process.
How about nullification in other contexts? If you don't like your taxes going to pay for a war in Afghanistan, should you have the "right" to simply stop paying them?
"Conversely, if you can't get a majority of your fellow citizens to agree with you, then what gives you the right to unilaterally disregard a law that everybody else in your democratic society appears to want?"
That's the way juries work. Deal with it.
Democracies get things wrong all the time. Just because the majority of legislators in some particular body decide to do A doesn't mean that doing A becomes some sacred duty. There was a time in this country when the law compelled every citizen to not only tolerate slavery, but to actively aid slaveholders in hunting down runaway slaves. Is that something that you would go along with just because it's the law?
I wouldn't tolerate it, and in a democratic society I have lawful means at my disposal to not only voice my opposition but to also change the law.
Democracies can get things wrong, but what makes you think an ideosyncractic individual somehow knows better? As the blogger points out, nullification by a rogue juror cuts both ways, and can prevent the conviction of a Byron De La Beckwith just as easily as it can save a Jean Valjean from the oppressive bootheel of the state.
I realize that no one can stop a rogue juror, but that doesn't mean I have to condone or agree with that rogue behavior, any more than I should tolerate lying merely because I can't stop someone from telling a lie.
As I point out elsewhere, the idea that nullification is perfectly acceptable is a step away from the rule of law and a step towards "the ends justify the means", and leaves the concept of "justice" in the hands of an individual who may have motives that run counter to the will of the people. In a totalitarian state, such individuality might be celebrated and considered a valuable necessity. In a free democracy, a subversion of the democratic process is flat wrong.
That's my state. I moved there for the licence plate. The full toast, written by Revolutionary War General John Stark, is even more inspiring.
"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils."
He sent this in 1809 to a Battle of Bennington reunion that he was too ill to attend.
He and his New Hampshiremen meant it. As the enemy approached, Stark raised 1,500 New Hampshire militiamen in only six days, more than ten percent of New Hampshire's male population over the age of sixteen.
Stark had a way with words. As battle was about to be joined, he rallied his men with a very brief speech:
"There are your enemies, the Red Coats and the Tories. They are ours, or this night Molly Stark sleeps a widow."
Death may not be the worst of evils but it certainly is the end of all things. Therefore good or evil become irrelevant where death is concerned.
A brave man chooses death over dishonor. A wise man chooses dishonor over death.
As an old Irish saying goes "It is better to be a coward for a day than to be dead for the rest of your life."
The General's fundamental idea is that it is worthy to run the risk of individual death to preserve freedom for the community. It is the right thing to do. We can be certain that no 18th century Christian would advocate suicide as a response to the loss of freedom.
If one believes in an afterlife, as was certainly the norm in Revolutionary America, death is considerably less final than you make it.
The loss of freedom is a rather more serious matter than dishonor.
The British succeeded in keeping the Irish down for a very long time.
I sat on a jury, some thirty years ago. It was a frightening experience - the members of the jury seemed to have neither the ability nor inclination to follow the law; rather, they voted according to their prejudice and their opinions. It was a frustrating experience to find the members of the jury were not bothered by the fact that they refused to apply the law to the case. In my mind, that experience seems to fit with the often quoted maxim: "If you are guilty, request a jury; if innocent, request that the judge decide your fate."
Regardless of my experience, the jury system still seems the best method to avoid potential governmental corruption or abuse from deciding our fate. That was paramount in the minds of the "founding fathers" and is still worthy of consideration.
The rule of law and trial by jury are two of the jewels in the crown of the common law system. It is something we can be proud of. That said, the US justice system does not work perfectly. Too often the quality of justice depends on how white, wealthy and well connected the defendant is.
In California, we are waiting to hear if the jury will nullify in the trial of William Lynch, who admits to slugging a priest whom many people think deserved it.
Even with jury nullification, the jury still can't do the sentence any way they want. Otherwise, they'd sentence Lindner to another pummeling.
Slugging a priest, indeed any religious panjandrum, should be rewarded, not penalized.
To quote one of my favorite movies "deserve has got nothing to do with it". There are plenty of people in the word who deserve a good sound beating. In fact, there are plenty of people in the world that probably deserve a much more severe fate than a mere beating. However, as a civilized society, we don't tolerate individuals taking matters into their own hands and dishing out beatings at their whim, whether deserved or not.
Mr. Lynch did something wrong, even if he felt it was for all the right reasons. He should be found guilty (since he admits to the battery). Where the idea of reasoned judgment, fairness, and mercy comes in is in the determination of a punishment: he did something wrong, but a civilized society can legitimately decide that some assaults are worse than others, and issue a more severe or more lenient punishment accordingly.
So he's like Gollum.
Acquittal on all the most serious charges, hung jury and mistrial on the rest.
I'm not sure if I would equate a guy who punched a priest with a psychotic, split-personality, manic-depressive, obsessive-compulsive, homicidal, canibalistic hermit.
But that is just me.
Incidentally, the quote is from Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven". Great movie.
Great film in which the sheriff dishes out a beating at his whim.
I would call this a borderline, questionable case of "nullification" anyway. The acquittal on the two felony charges (assault and elder abuse) could have been justified on a reasonable interpretation of the facts of the case. The misdemeanor assault charge was 8/4 for conviction. So that could be interpreted as a few jurors refusing to convict on a charge easily supported by the defendant's own admissions.
The misdemeanor charge could be retried, but I'm guessing it won't be. If there had been only one holdout juror, and if the victim were a better witness, it probably would be.
On the off chance I get caught, I think I should be able to use "patriotism" as a defense against charges of detonation of controlled fireworks.
Boom! Boom! Boom! God Bless America!
"There may be some unjust verdicts, but there are plenty of those now. Trial by jury is imperfect..."
True. But if you're willing to shrug and accept that there are unjust verdicts (as the above statements appear to imply), mustn't you also be willing to accept the unjust sentences that come with them? Like a death sentence?
Don't mind me... I'm just stirring the pot. July 4 is - historically - a great day for making mischief.
Seriously, this was an interesting article. Thank you.
As a future Governor of New Hampshire, I support this law.
As future felon in New Hampshire, I support your candidacy.
On behalf of all the future potential criminal victims of New Hampshire, I say "why shouldn't the jury think of me also?" If you support jury nullification to let criminals off the hook, shouldn't you also say that a jury should be allowed to convict a person if they feel it is "just" even if the law would let the accused off on a technicality?
I know. I think if you have to go to the bother of serving on a jury you should get to hang someone. Otherwise it's a waste of time. We can't let people go around not paying their parking tickets.
Agreed. I miss a good old fashioned beheading. Good quality family-fun time.
"Saudis to behead joy-rider for hit-and-run incident"
"Saudi Arabia, which follows a strict version of Sunni Islam, does not have a written penal code and judges issue verdicts according to their own interpretation of the Koran." A nice example of rule of man trumping rule of law.
The Constitution gives juries an unqualified power to acquit. There is no comparable unqualified power to convict
"The Constitution gives juries an unqualified power to acquit."
This is the second time you said this, and to paraphrase Inigo Montoya, I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.
The Constitution does not give juries unqualified powers -- in fact, it does not reference their powers at all, except in one place.
The Constitution only references juries in a few place:
1. That a prosecution for serious federal crimes must be based on an indictment by Grand Jury (5th Amendment).
2. In all federal criminal prosecutions, the accused shall have the right (elective, not mandatory) to a trial by an impartial jury of the state and district where the crime was committed (6th Amendment).
3. In federal civil lawsuits, the parties have a right (again, elective and not mandatory) to a trial by jury, "and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law." (7th Amendment)
Thus, the only Constitutional enumeration of the powers of a jury are found in the 7th Amendment (related solely to civil trials), and even that is not "unqualified", as you put it. The jury's provice is to be a finder-of-fact (i.e. to decide what facts are true or false), and there are limited contexts in which those determinations can be overturned.
There is no constitutional requirement for a specific number of jurors, and there is no constitutional requirement that a jury must be unanimous (i.e. a state could set up a jury system that requires majority vote to make a ruling). Moreover, although the Constitution does not differentiate between misdemeanors and felonies, the Supreme Court has held that jury trials are not constitutionally required for petty offenses.
Jury trials are an important civic right and protection, but let's not put it on a pedestal and elevate it higher than it actually is.
The 7th amendment only applies to civil cases. For criminal cases GH is correct that an acquittal cannot be reviewed, because that would cause double jeopardy, prohibited by the Constitution, unless there is evidence that there was no actual jeopardy, such as if the defendant bribed the judge or the jury. So that "unqualified power" does exist.
I sat on a federal jury that in essence nullified a law. The law had to do with ownership of unlabeled explosives and we decided we couldn't find the defendant guilty because the explosives were never sold labeled, that only the box they came in was ever labeled. The judge thanked us after and said he had been considering throwing out the law if we didn't. My point: juries nullify for reasons. I can't think of an instance where a jury has simply decided a law is unjust or unjustly applied without a reason. We had a reason. We thought about it and voted the way that made sense. That happened to nullify a law - and yes, the defendant was a genuine criminal for whom we no sympathy at all. I don't think juries need to be informed that they should think through the application of facts and law. That is really what nullification is: the uncovering of circumstances where the facts and the law don't work as you might think at a glance.
I'm not sure if I am following your case reasoning. It seems like you didn't actually nullify anything. If the statute criminalizes the ownership of unlabled explosives, and you found that the explosives were actually originally lawfully sold without any individual lables, but the box they came in was properly labled, you were actually making a finding of fact that the law was not violated. It is sort of like trying to convict a guy for owning bullets because the individual bullets are unlabled, instead of the box they came in. I think the prosecutor in this case was trying to pound a square peg into a round hole this time around.
Nullification is a choice by a jury not to convict IN SPITE of the fact that the law and the facts would clearly require a conviction. I'm not sure the facts in your case would have justified a conviction except on a very crabbed reading of the Gun Control Act (and to quote Justice Roberts, the law is not supposed to be a word game).
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New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg reportedly had unpleasant words for the chief executive officer of a taxi company who won a court case against the city.
A witness said they overheard Mayor Bloomberg say at a meeting at the 1879 Club at Madison Square Garden, "I will destroy your [expletive] industry," when talking to Taxi Club Management CEO Gene Freidman, the Washington Times reported. Friedman subsequently confirmed the exchange to The New York Post and added that Mr. Bloomberg also said that come January — when his mayoral term wraps — he would destroy "all you [expletive] guys," referring to cabbies and their management in New York.
The court case that had Mr. Bloomberg so upset centered on the mayor's attempt to replace the city's cab fleet with hybrid vehicles — a plan called the Taxi of Tomorrow. The judge ruled that the mayor couldn't order the fleet change because it violated city code.


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text: 1963 The White Sox trade shortstop Luis Aparicio and outfielder Al Smith to the Orioles for pitcher Hoyt Wilhelm along with outfielder Dave Nicholson and two other players. During his six season in the Windy City, the right-handed knuckleballer will post a 41-33 record along with 98 saves while compiling a minuscule ERA of 1.92. |


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The Welcome Centre,
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Adults £9.00
Children £6.00
Concessions £7.00
Family £25.00
Located 200m from the Cathedral entrance.
: 1 mile from Canterbury East/West station


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Maria Sharapova (or is it her mom?) was spotted at the opening of Tiffany & Co.'s new store at The Americana at Brand in Glendale, CA.
The Russian glamazon also met up with Willie Ebersol, brother of her rumored boyfriend Charlie Ebersol.
The dress Shrieka's wearing is pure prettiness but I can't really tell what's going on with hair. The shorter style ages her and makes her face look really wide. Let's hope it's just an "up-do" and not a permanent cut.
But one thing we can all be happy about: it seems she's finally moved on from the bangs - smart move Shrieka.
(images via mariasharapova.com)
Saturday, December 13, 2008
SIGHTING: Shrieka gets pretty for Tiffany's store opening but what's up with her hair?
28 comments:
- Tennis ObserverDecember 13, 2008 at 12:38 PM
LOL what's that green tie on the midget he looks like a clown
ReplyDelete VICKI FOURIE: def props for experimenting and trying something new. i was serious when i mentioned the move away from the bangs - it's really so over.
but she aged like 10 years with the 'do. there must be better ones - but what? how about bigger hair with more volume?? go full on 80's!
t.o.: he's probably normal size but he was "shrunk by shrieka" - a very common condition you get when hanging with russian fashionista.
i caught it last year at this event i went to for her...not fun...- AnonymousDecember 13, 2008 at 3:53 PM
Her hair's definitely different, which in some ways is good. It looks a bit half-done, though.
And Ebersol is probably normal-sized, like Rich said, but is, like Rich said, shrunk by Masha.
I'm guessing the only person in the world who won't get shrunk by Shrieka is Delpo, who's like 6'6". Oh, and Yao Ming too. - AllisonDecember 13, 2008 at 5:03 PM
Her makeup looks a bit off too. Usually it's flawless but it looks 'done' in a bad way.
ReplyDelete God, she looks so old!Like a grandma!Make-up is so bad, and it aged her, look how her lips look like she ate a lemon,wrinkled!....My first impression was Bring me some Ana Ivanovic!It looks like Ana officialy took the hottest tron from Masha!I know Masha will glow again many times, thing she has to do, is first go little more blonder, it makes her eyes look great, this is going gray, going blond Masha is what you have to do!And just yeah, go with naturalness, loosen up her hair, or tie it, or go yeah some big volume, little bit curly, and have a make-up, real make-up, not to much, but I just love it when she wears red lipstick, she looks fierce!:)But Masha and her fashion mistakes are not a new thing, so I'm used to it.
ReplyDeletesally: Obvs I completely agree with you
Tessa: She looks good when she experiments some and doesn't try to go to demure - it's not really her thing. I'd say it's better suited for Ana; Shrieka's a glamazon. I'd love her to just go all out and wild - like I said the big hair, Alexander McQueen, crazy makeup.
Pamela: Ah, yes the lesbo rumors about Camilla Belle, who's now supposedly dating one of the Jonas Bros. I don't know - I've never gotten that vibe. But I remember after they posed for those photos during their Euro trip they got posted everywhere and then next thing you know the pics with Camilla were removed from Shrieka's site. That was strange.
I haven't heard a peep about her relationship with Charlie Ebersol after the initial news. Not sure if they're just super private or what but it's hard to hide THAT much when you're as familiar a face as Shrieka.
Anyone else have any updates on Shrieka + Charlie????OMG I always go nuts whenever I hear people discussing BEST FRIENDS REALTIONSHIP as lesbo one!I mean what is it with you people??How much time do you spend with you BFF!?Mos def 1000 times much more,cause you don't have Masha's schedule, but you don't get photographed on every coffe, on every walk, on every trip,on every hang out, I mean if I got fotografed with my bf every time we met and hang out as they do, it will seem as we'll lovers also, cause of the amount time we're spending together!And they for god sakes don't even see each other as often as any of us do with our BFFs!And it's just a coincidence that one of Masha's best friend is also a celebrity so they can merge they hanging outs on events they'll both attend-fashion shows and similar....it's so stupid these rumours are even alive, or ever were.Lemme ask ya how many times a week you see your best friends?Me as much as possible!Sometimes every day!And Masha sees Camilla like probably once a month!And when they manage to see each other 2 weeks in a row, twice a year, then they lovers, like great how outside lookers interpratate things!C r a z y!
ReplyDeleteOk, first of: Masha does not look good here! The make-up is off, the hair is, well, not flattering, her skin seems to breaking out again and she looks really tired.
I don't mind the dress but it is boring. I know it's a tiffany's event but she could have been a little more fashion-forward imo. Take the risk instead of playing it save!
Maria Sharapova +Camilla Belle = Mamilla Bellapova? LOL!!! I thought people would have been over this by now.
And actually, Masha and Camilla didn't really get snapped by paparazzi except for the one time at the Miami tournament. Usually if you saw them together it were pics that were taken on the red carpet or pics Masha herself posted on her blog... And I have to say it was fun for a while speculating about their relationship but now it's become really old and boring.
And does anybody here really believe she's dating that Ebersol guy?? Please! He's extremly fug and if it would have been true, don't you think there would have been at least one more picture or story about them? See, there's nothing to it!Tessa: I had to remove your comment because it linked to another blog post which is spamming. Direct links to photos, and/or videos are fine but not to other blog posts, websites, or products. Always feel free to send me the info directly at firstname.lastname@example.com!
Here's the rest of your comment:
"@Maja : I completely agree!Finally someone who also thinks the lesbo rumours are true B.S. and the Ebersnol ones, also."Yeah Shrieka + Charlie were a story for a minute and then *poof* nothing. It seems weird they wouldn't have been spotted anywhere else together though our perspective may be skewed after drowning in Anando news lately.
I guess if you don't pose for a 1000 photos and videos in a week's time then you couldn't possibly be dating.
Aaargh.- MichelleDecember 14, 2008 at 2:01 PM
Argh..those lesbian rumors again. Give it up, they are probably just BFF's who like to hang out at together, you know like normal girls.
I don't think the whole charlie thing is true, but who knows maybe they are dating..if so then they are hiding it pretty well, unlike some people :P. My observation and belief that she might be a lesbian doesn't really have anything to do with her best friend. It's just a vibe that I get. I don't know why anyone would get offended, if she is - she is. So what? Still though, I think we don't see her with anyone .. man or woman because she doesn't want to be out of the closet.
Again, just my opinion and personally I like the hair, the dress looks like a fitted table cloth. She's better when she's being glam.Shrieka's def getting better at the modeling thing - she's looking more natural for sure.
I wonder if she wasn't working with Rachel Zoe what her style would like like these days? It's hard to say whose style is really theirs and whose style comes from the stylists.
I bet the ones with naturally good style are few and far between because there wouldn't be as many stylists!I think Masha's still single cause boys are reduced to her cause of her height, I mean it's not easy to find bf when you're that tall, immediatly your opinions are lower.....she so damn tall, she has to go to special places to find boys, so basicly just itentionally go to find men!Basketball court or smth....and maybe men that she finds attractive think of her as a giant!And are not attracted to her, possibly!So I mean, she probably just didn't find that someone,I bet she will.....but Masha lesbian???Out of nowhere is just plain ridicilous!I mean I think Nadal is bi, just the wibe I get!..not..It's ridicilous, we can all just blab around for any of them then, big B.S.
PS.Masha's stylist is Rachel Zoe?!?!Oh God.Now suddenly some of her ummm fashion choices or mistakes make sense to me.- AnonymousDecember 14, 2008 at 8:51 PM
Lol at the person who thought Masha has fat arms
I reckon they're probably muscly, but then again, Masha was never as built as a Williams sister or Manresmo I love the outfit, but I agree that her make up is bad (she's looking so dark underneath her eyes, and there's a great lipstick color missing).
The hair is a bit weird. I like the idea, but it seems unfinished or something. The braid on the top of her head is nice, though.
As for the relationship rumours... I so do not care about who she's dating. LOL
I really don't get the lesbian vibe though.


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Whether or not you attended the actual meeting, you are welcome to share your own thoughts and opinions about this book in a reply comment to this blog post, below.
For additional reminders about upcoming Just Desserts meetings and/or other announcements of interest to mystery fans, don't forget to sign up for the Just Desserts e-mail list. Or, if you're logged into your account on Facebook, you can visit the Events page for the Lincoln City Libraries, and mark whether or not you plan to attend upcoming sessions of Just Desserts - this is a great way for you to help us promote this engaging discussion group! Our selections for future meetings are usually posted there months in advance.What do you think of Water Like a Stone by Deborah Crombie?
Join us next on May 29th, 2014, 6:30 p.m. at the South Branch Library for our annual Series Share night. We're not all reading the same book for that meeting. Instead, participants are encouraged to read the first volume of ANY new mystery/suspense/thriller series that's premiered in the past 4 years. Everyone will get a chance to share their impressions and opinions of that new series with the group -- should be an opportunity to get lots of good suggestions for new authors to try!We hope to see you then!


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