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The entire Jewish Nation is proud of our sister Ms. Scarlett Johansson to have stood up against The Leftist-Reform Elite in Los Angeles. The Reform Movement is a passing episode. Their mark on the Jewish History will be soon forgotten
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The entire Jewish Nation is proud of our sister Ms. Scarlett Johansson to have stood up against The Leftist-Reform Elite in Los Angeles. The Reform Movement is a passing episode. Their mark on the Jewish History will be soon forgotten
There are big parts of this article copied without permission by Haarets newspaper in Israel by their reporter Elihay Videl. Here is a link http://www.haaretz.co.il/gallery/cinema/1.2236278
Maybe The Economist should ask for royalties or explanations from them?
February 8, 2014, Kenneth Ellman Further Comments on The Economist article "Vicky Cristina Jerusalem -Scarlett Johansson and SodaStream", Email:firstname.lastname@example.com, Box 18, Newton, New Jersey 07860. The Right to Choose Without Intimidation. Copyright 2014, Kenneth Ellman, All Rights Reserved.
In reading The Economist article "Vicky Cristina Jerusalem -Scarlett Johansson and SodaStream" the many news reports about this unimportant incident come to mind. I make this additional comment to my writing already seen here. My previous discussion was directed to the merits of Israel. This is now directed to the merits of the right to have a view different from those who hate us. They hate us in part because as English Speaking people we so value that right to free expression, a right they deny their own people. As we have seen described in the very many excellent books of Bruce Bawer and Andrew G. Bostom and others, Israel is in a part of the world that wages war against the very idea of individual liberty, choice and speech. They hate us for the things we believe make life worth living.
So, a very beautiful Jewish actress, Scarlett Johansson, made a political and social choice. She choose her people over those who hate them and would injure them. Why does this matter? Why would it be strange? Normally most public assertions of political or social beliefs affirm the heritage of the proponent. In this case that is what occurred. From time to time an individual of Muslim or Arabic heritage will support Israel and an individual of Jewish heritage will support Islam or Arabic causes. Such dichotomy will cause news attention since the individual in that case is espousing an unexpected belief which contradicts assumptions of group identification. Here what would be socially expected occurred. An individual supported those to whom she identifies and has a heritage of. So why, why did it attract so much public comment?
It may additionally be thought that her decision was merely a private one based upon what was economically beneficial to her or that she decided to do what she simply believes was right and just. In any case it really begs the question which is why does it matter? Matter so much that it attracted international news.
When it comes to Israel, a nation and people that only survives due to it ability to protect itself from those who seek to kill it every day , everything becomes major news.
When a well known individual makes a simple private decision to choose Israel instead of the enemies of the Jewish people, that somehow becomes a concern the world over. Outrage that someone dare speak and act on their own mind. The very act of support for Israel is deemed newsworthy or that an anti-Israel organization such as Oxfam might force such a choice and be successfully resisted.
The obvious comes to mind. It really has nothing to do with Scarlett Johansson. It has everything to do with the very idea that the Jews have existed, continue to exist and no amount of nonsense press releases or acts of war or terrorism have destroyed the Jewish people over the thousands upon thousands of years of human history. Every time someone stands with the Jewish people, they stand against those who would destroy them. So, this capable actress, who no matter how acclaimed is still just an actress, brings the hatred of Israel again into the international news.
A message tends to comes across that there is a price to pay for such choices, even if wholly private choices. We in the world of English speaking peoples where the free exchange and expression of ideas is a cherished value, must not forget how different we are from those who do not believe as we do. However admired Scarlett Johansson is as an actress she should be more respected for acting upon the courage of her convictions .
Kenneth Ellman, Email:email@example.com, Newton, New Jersey 07860
February 8, 2014, Kenneth Ellman Comments on The Economist article "Vicky Cristina Jerusalem -Scarlett Johansson and SodaStream", Email:email@example.com, Box 18, Newton, New Jersey 07860. Copyright 2014, Kenneth Ellman
Quite amazing I say. The Jews created ancient Israel in the early days of history out of war and ideas that we now know of as the Bible, but was to the Jews at that time and today, commandments and law for Jewish life. Centuries later during ancient Roman days again nations only existed to the extent they could wage war to defend their people and the ideas of their time. The Jews chose to rebel and fight the Romans, for the right to be Jews in their own land and have a Jewish nation. While losing that terrible war, they won the battle of ideas, beliefs and knowledge. Not many today worship the Roman Gods, but the concepts in the Bible of the dignity of human beings has permeated all nations. Christianity and Islam only, and I say only exist due to the books and ideas of the Jews. Since the Jews created modern Israel with the extraordinary and wonderful support of the Christian world and of the United Nations in 1947, it has been at war, just as in ancient times. What has changed? Nothing.
To the extent the Jews want to continue to have their own nation they must as all other nations must, continually relearn and never forget the reality that nations only exists and prosper because of a commitment to belief systems that defines the people and the ability to wage war and kill to defend it. How silly are those who forget both the ancient and very recent lessons of reality that nothing, absolutely nothing is more important than defending yourself and your beliefs. Europe was again reminded and relearned that lesson in World War Two as did the rest of the world. We as a human animal died fighting and winning by our choice that what we had was better than the terror, self destruction and degradation offered Germany and Japan. We died for what we valued in our heritage. Our nations and English Speaking peoples still live with the values of freedom. So, the Jews and Israel are somehow to be denied that which all nations claim, that is the right to exist as a people and nation and to fight and wage war for their ideas, beliefs and way of life.
Surrounding Israel is to a large extent people and nations that have learned only to hurt and kill themselves and their neighbors. Just a short time ago Iraq had conquered and raped Kuwait and was moving on Saudi Arabia with the "Palestinians" and Yasser Arafat as the handmaiden. Those wonderful people were in fact killing and enslaving their own Arabic speaking neighbors and were ONLY rescued by the United States with Great Britain in the George Bush war of liberation. After victory the signs in Kuwait had the photo of the American President with the words "Great Bush" . How quickly we forget.
It is the height of foolishness and betrayal for the Jews to pretend there will be peace and happiness in their neighborhood and they should just surrender their land that they died for over thousands of years, to make happiness in the stink of Arabia. When Israel has nations there to make peace with then perhaps peace can be made. That is not the case today. If you think otherwise then go live in the neighbors of Israel and see the reality. To think at this time that the Arabs, Muslims and "Palestinians" will treat the Jews any better than they treat their own people, is the height of self deception. Look at what they did to the Christians of Lebanon. The Jews can not and will not allow that. Kenneth Ellman, Email:firstname.lastname@example.com, Newton, NJ 07860
"nations only exists and prosper because of a commitment to belief systems that defines the people and the ability to wage war and kill to defend it" - your comment.
An expected (and predictable) comment from an American - i.e., whose nation was based on ethnic cleansing and the brutal genocide of the native population of North America. Zionism is a just cause for people like you, because the Zionists are try to emulate the founding fathers of the USA. The only problem is that they are 3 centuries too late - because ethnic cleansing is now a crime in international law.
What a load of manure.
You fundies are sick in the head over "holy Israel" - nothing less than American Talibans.
Many , many of your fellow Americans want a free Palestinian State - you are on the wrong side of freedom , but what can one expect from religious nuts?
USA is a new nation, unlike the story of the Jewish people, almost 4000 years old. Can't compare the two cases.
I know Jewish people's existence deniers hates it when people talk about the long history of the Jewish people, as it crushes their 'case' for Israel's illegitimacy.
But Kenneth Ellman is right. The Jewish people has both the right for their country in the area known as 'Palestine', and also have the resolve and ability to defend it.
With the way Israel';s neighbors treat themselves and one another, with their self-inflicted damage, defending Israel is getting easier by the day..
You say:
'Many , many of your fellow Americans want a free Palestinian State' Too bad establishing a Palestinians State isn't the number one priority of the Palestinians themselves.
Unfortunately, establishing 'Palestine' is merely a distant second desire of the Palestinians; destroying Israel is the first.
If in order to establish 'Palestne' the Palestoinians will officially have to rid themselves of their commitment to destroy Israel - they will pass.
This, no other, is the reason why Palestine was not yet established.
Americans are no fools, guest-smlwewm. Selling them the product called 'Palestinians just want to have their rights like anyone else' fails, because they know when a product sucks!
Ms. Johanson did the right thing. I find people who advocate boycott of Israeli enterprises in the Territories decidedly callous towards the real Palestinian workers who depend on those enterprises for sustenance for themselves and their families. Are the boycotters going to replace their incomes? Are they going to replace the Israeli economic actors in the Territories and provide decent jobs for the Palestinians they would throw out of work. As for the BDSers, it is often all too plain that many demand not just the end of he occupation, but the end of Israel. Frankly, I think the appropriate Israeli response to the BDS movement should be to make it that the Palestinians will suffer first and foremost from that action. I'm guessing that if states that run pension funds divesting from Israeli investments are no longer permitted to make investments or provide aid or be granted physical access to the Territories, they might think twice about allowing those funds to divest. Likewise, academic organizations and institutions that choose to boycott Israel should find that their communications and personnel will no longer be allowed entry into Israel or territories it controls.
"Frankly, I think the appropriate Israeli response to the BDS movement should be to make it that the Palestinians will suffer first and foremost from that action.""
How easily collective punishment trips off your tongue. Sick and sad.
""As for the BDSers, it is often all too plain that many demand not just the end of he occupation, but the end of Israel.""
An outright LIE. BDS does not call for the destruction of Israel. At all.
The BDS Movement (officially) does not demand the destruction of Israel. But I've read too many comments and seen too many videos of BDSers doing just that to have any illusions you are correct. When they say "end the occupation" and "free Palestine" some BDSers mean the Territories, and some mean all of Israel. As for your "collective punishment" accusation, I am merely advocating that Israel ensure that the Palestinians suffer the same "collective punishment" the BDSers inflict on Israelis, no more and no less. It would be the BDSers who determine just how much "collective punishment" they choose to inflict on the Palestinians.
BDS wants Israel's destruction.
Watch what Prof. Norman Finkelstein, a leading Israel critic, ahs to say about it:
Wow! You sound like a wonderful person. "Make them suffer more!" Do you actually think about this crap before you write it? You are talking about millions of ordinary people living under occupation with zero rights! They already suffer enough. They can't go from one town to another without hours of delays at check points, they can't build a house without risk of having torn down for "security reasons," they can't travel outside of the country without permission-and then even at that, they aren't guaranteed that they'll be able to come back to their homes! They can't import or export basic goods, the water supply is shut off 5 days a week while settlers enjoy fancy swimming pools, they can't get broadband or even 3G Internet; not 4g, 3G is not allowed. They have to deal with fault humiliations and strip searches at check points! All
Of that is going on while the Israelis and settlers live next door in a developed country with nice cars, built up roads, air conditioning, a first class health care system, and nice quaint homes on West Bank hills over looking the down trodden palestinian villages.
All of that, and the minute these poor people decide to stand up, even when it's non violent they're called terrorists! In that case, the Israelis who fought the british were terrorists, the american revolutionaries were terrorists, so was Mandela, so were the brave people who lead the Warsaw uprising in hopes of surviving the holocaust!
"Israeli response to the BDS movement should be to make it that the Palestinians will suffer first" - your comment.
Well the reality is that the poor shareholders of Sodastream have taken a real battering. Here is what has happened to the share price in New York:
From a high of $ 78, the share is now trading at around $ 36 - a whopping reduction (of over half) in its market capitalization!!!!!
Oxfam, what is this ? Another of those bleeding hearts organizations who dictate how one should think or have an opinion, especially if it does not agree with theirs.
Oxfam was the one who deliberately gave an ultimatum. Not the other way around.great for Johansson to keep her ground!
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed,if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed".
So, Ms Johansson is not just a syrupy blonde after all?
No surprises about Oxfam, though.
Sodastream's presencce in the west bank is to serve the interests of sodastream and not those of Palestinians. I think that sovereignty and conflict resolution is the main priority for most Palestinians. Sodastream's presence there is an obstacle to sovereignty and conflict resolution goals. Once the west bank is free of occupying forces, then sodastream should feel free to invest in the region and employ palestinians. Is it not like someone taking over another person's land and then employing them as a farm-hand?
You say:
'I think that sovereignty and conflict resolution is the main priority for most Palestinians.'
Unfortunately, you're wrong. If it was as you say, then the 'State of Palestine' would celebrate 66 years of independence, just like the State of Israel will.
The problem is Palestinian independence is merely a distant second on the Palestinian's leadership priority list. Destroying Israel is the first.
if for establishing 'Palestine', the Palestinians will have to give up the idea of Israel's destruction - they'll pass.
That's the SINGLE reason why they still were not able to establish Palestine
As a Palestinian, I disagree with the BDS approach. I believe that Palestinians should not attempt to boycott Israel. Instead, we should be embracing economic cooperation! The Palestinians should drop their demand for a separate state and ask for their equal rights as citizens of Israel. The settlers want the West Bank annexed, so be it, take the West Bank and Gaza with it! Just give us equal rights so that we can get on with our lives! Allow us to vote, to move freely from one town to another, to travel outside the country without special permits, to get equal funding for our schools and infrastructure, to have the same access to water and services as the settlers, and grant us citizenship! I do not care whether I live in a Jewish state or an Arab one; I just want to live free in my homeland and to share it with people who accept me as part of it (Jews and Arabs alike!) We both love this land and have deep attachments to it, it's not impossible for us to share it! The PA may not like my approach, but I know that most Palestinians would prefer a one state solution to a 2 state solution! Over half of the West Bank and Gaza strip inhabitants are not from the West Bank and Gaza, they hail from cities in Israel like Lod, Jaffa, Ramla,Asdod, Haifa, etc... They don't care about a country in the West Bank.
Well said. However, the point made so well by other commentators here is that the last thing the international aid agencies and leftist political parties want is a solution to the suffering of the Palestinians. In the case of the aid agencies like Oxfam, they make huge profits from the suffering of others (I know too well, my father worked for years in an Oxfam project, until he understood that the business of Oxfam and its like is not the elimination of poverty, but raising money in the name of the elimination of poverty - a completely different thing). In the case of the international left, they have massive political gains by being 'champions' of the poor downtrodden Palestinians. The worst thing that could happen would be an actual solution to the dilemma. If the botoxed imbecile Kerry thought for a moment that Israel was willing to accept the suicidal terms he demands for the so-called 'peace process', he would promptly triple them, and triple them again. The demands are deliberately set too high. The object is not to end the very real suffering of the Palestinians, but to keep on making monetary and political profit in the name of ending said suffering.
You are being used, and cynically so. And the end of your suffering does not depend on Israel, but on your own decision to no longer be used.
You are a Palestinian like I am an Inuit Princess.......
Not sure why you would think I'm lying. I'm a palestinian born and raised in a town called beit Hanina between ramallah and jerusalem. I moved to the US 10 years ago when I was 20. My family still lives there and I visit often. I've lived through both Initfadas and under occupation. I'm guessing that you didn't like my approach do you feel
Threatened by a palestinian asking for a Bi national state- a palestinian who wants peace?
Ps. I'm sure you'd make a fine Inuit princess!
Because you should know that your occupiers would NEVER agree to a one State solution- too many "non-jews" would be citizens. They are NOT having that.
A true democracy should not discriminate on the basis of religion or ethnicity. So what if majority of the inhabitants aren't jews? The ONLY solution for this conflict is a single state with equal rights to all. There is no palestinian state to be had. I was in the West Bank 2 months ago! The settlements outnumber the palestinian villages; they control the roads, the water, the electricity, the economy, etc... There is nothing left to create a Palestinian state with. It's over.
You say:
'...Just give us equal rights so that we can get on with our lives!'
I understand you and your brethren want to 'get on with your live'. My question is - are you ready to let the Jewish people get on with theirs?
I do not know you personally, and of course can't judge how genuine what you say is. The recent 100 years tells me, that your leadership, supported by most 'Palestinians', won't let the Jews 'get on' with their lives.
There is one other thing we learned from the recent three years of 'Arab Spring', which is:
Arabs do not tolerate each other if the belong to a different religion, tribe, or sect. They literally are ready to eat each other's hearts. Sunni citizens of Syria kill Christians or Alawite Syrians and vise versa; as do Lebanese citizens to one another; or Iraqis; or Egyptians; and so on.
So what you are saying, is that Arabs will be able to miraculously succeed where they fail with each other, and live happily side by side with Jews, and be equal citizens with them?!? - Also if Arabs are the majority of the state??
It will take a lot to convince that's possible, you know. Much more than writing a post on this board..
The Arab spring is a result of a 100 years of oppression and dictatorships supported by western governments. Also, ignorance and poverty have more to do with what's going on there than ethnicity.
However, This issue has nothing to do with other Arabs, it's about the Palestinians who have been oppressed for years and wronged by history (by Israelis and other Arabs alike.) Israel has never given the palestinians any rights to see the result and how they would behave. Years of oppression, forced relocation, humiliation, poverty, and abuse have created this situation in palestine. The native Americans were "hostile" at some point; now they're not. Guess why? They Got equal rights. We don't fight for the sake of fighting Jews, we fight for our freedom. If palestinians had equal rights, freedom, and jobs they would have no reason to fight anyone. We have more in common with Israelis than we do with other Arabs! Go to jerusalem and see how Christians, Jews, and muslims interact and get a along with no issues.
It's easy to sit behind your computer and pretend that the palestinians aren't suffering, to come up with excuses as to why it's ok to treat us like cattle because you believe that "we are incapable of getting along with you." In reality, you wouldn't want to be an ordinary Palestinian living under occupation and you'd probably rise up against your oppressors if you were living our lives.
One other thing, no one elected the palestinian leadership, they are a bunch of thugs and political hustlers who were chosen by the UN and other Arabs to represent the palestinian people.
FYI, I am a palestinian Christian and I've never experienced discrimination from palestinians Muslims, but I have been harassed by israeli soldiers my whole life.
First, I want to say that I noticed that while you wrote a lengthy message, you avoinded answering my question from my earlier post, regarding a one state situation if that hapnnes – "are you ready to let the Jewish people get on with theirs?"
Now to comment about your message. I am sorry, but my reply is even longer than yours!...;-)
You say:
'The Arab spring is a result of a 100 years of oppression and dictatorships supported by western governments. Also, ignorance and poverty have more to do with what's going on there than ethnicity.'
You skip one major factor, without which we wouldn't see all that violence we do, and that is the Sunni-Shiite conflict, which exists for the past 1,300 years. 100 years of fake Arab nationalism hid all that, however this conflict surfaces now.
The point of reference is no longer the country you're a citizen of, but rather which religion, sect, or tribe to you belong to. A Sunni Syrian identifies with, say, a Sunni Iraqi rather than non-Sunni 'Syrians'.
You say:
'However, This issue has nothing to do with other Arabs, it's about the Palestinians...'
The Palestinians, is yet another fake Arab 'nationality'. As the Christian you say you are a 'Palestinian', do you really think the Islamists of Hamas or Hizb-a-Tahrir see you as one of them?? - We live in a Middle East where Sunnis aspire the reestablishment of the Caliphate - a Muslim national entity. It is Islam being the defining characteristic of the new nation, which known no boundaries, particularly those drafted by the Powers following WWI. Hizb-a-Tahrir's 'Palestinians' do not carry with them the Palestinian national flag; they carry the black al-Qaeda one!
You say:
'...[the Palestinians] who have been oppressed for years and wronged by history (by Israelis and other Arabs alike.)'
The 'Palestinians' have been wronged mainly by the bad choices they made themselves. It is about time the 'Palestinians' grow up, and assume responsibility for their own wrongdoings, rather than blaming everyone else - from Israel, through other Arabs, all the way to history (how on earth can 'history' in itself be blamed for anything?!).
You say:
'Israel has never given the palestinians any rights...'
The Palestinians chose in 1948, out of their own free will, NOT to exercise their right according to UN resolution 181, and establish the 'State of Palestine'. It wasn't something Israel had to do with. Ever since, the Palestinians sought the destruction of Israel. I guess you've read the Palestinian National Charter and the Hamas Covenant, haven't you?
You say:
'Years of oppression, forced relocation, humiliation, poverty, and abuse have created this situation in palestine.'
No, sir. Decades of active actions to destroy Israel, forced Israel to defend itself. Can't do the time, don't do the crime.
You say:
'We don't fight for the sake of fighting Jews, we fight for our freedom.'
This is BIGGEST LIE of all! - Hamas does fight Israel for the sake of fighting Jews; Read Article 7 of the Hamas Covenant. The PLO fights for the sake of Israel's destruction!... and you expect Israel to help out?!
If the 'Palestinians' merely sought freedom, they would have it 66 years ago, just like Israel got it. Unfortunately, freedom is merely a second distant priority on the 'Palestinians' priority list; destroying Israel is the first.
If in order to have freedom on part of the land, they will have to give up their dream of having Israel destroyed - the 'Palestinians' will pass on having freedom, as they constantly do. That's the ONLY reason why they still don't have 'Palestine' established!
You say:
'We have more in common with Israelis than we do with other Arabs!'
Israelis and Arabs are of two separate movements: They have no shared culture, no shared history, no shared language, no shared values. 'Palestinians' are mainly Sunnis. That's their reference point. No ferry-tales or wishful thinking can change it.
You say:
'It's easy to sit behind your computer and pretend that the palestinians aren't suffering, to come up with excuse...'
It's never easy. Don't you think that Israel and Israelis, being such an innovative nation, would prefer to spend as much resources and time as possible creating more value, generating even better life for them to enjoy, avoiding risks to their own family and friends, and secure their children's future? - Of course they would! – Don't tell me you think that Israelis just wait for the next opportunity to get hit by a barrage of indiscriminant rocket fire aimed at killing as many innocent Israelis as possible..
The excuses are of the Palestinians, always blaming Israel and never assuming responsibility for their own failures. Just like children! - And as like happens with children, when they can't, or unwilling to assume responsibility, the responssible adult around dictates reality!
You say:
'In reality, you wouldn't want to be an ordinary Palestinian living under occupation and you'd probably rise up against your oppressors if you were living our lives.'
Of course I don't want to be an ordinary 'Palestinian' living under occupation. But what I would do if I was, would be to create the Palestinian 'Peace Now' movement, demanding that once and for-all, we the Palestinians rid ourselves with our obsession of having Israel destroyed, accept the fact that Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people, as UN resolution 181 specifies, and agree to share the land with that nation.
You say:
'One other thing, no one elected the palestinian leadership...'
This is factually wrong, even though the term of the elected officials ended 5 years ago(!). But as the saying goes - every people gets the leadership it deserves. Hiding behind a presumed fact that the 'Palestinian people' can't or won't chose their own leaders, is their own problem; and if as a result others take decisions on their behalf, the 'Palestinians' can only blame themselves. Grow up!
You say:
'I am a palestinian Christian and I've never experienced discrimination from palestinians Muslims, but I have been harassed by israeli soldiers my whole life.'
Funny. In one of your other posts you mentioned that "I'm a palestinian born and raised in a town called beit Hanina...I moved to the US 10 years ago when I was 20."
Your family and you lived under Israeli occupation for almost half a century, but when was the time you moved to the US? - Only after you came under the rule of the Palestinian Authority..
This brings me back to my first point in this post of mine: We live in an era in which fake Arab nationalism dies down, and makes its way to the reemerging Islamist nationality, the Caliphate. That's why the Christians are ethnically cleansed from all across the Middle East - from Iraq, through Syria, the Palestinian Authority, and down to Egypt. Even Lebanon's Christian population is stagnant for many years. Those young who can -leave . Just like yourself.
This is great lesson to what happens to a minority religion in the Middle East if it doesn't have a nation state to protect its followers. The Christians are cleansed from the Middle East, because Christians do not have their own nation to protect them! - That's why the Jews MUST NEVER give up their independent state!! - If they do, their fate will be just like the Christians'!!
I know why you want, as a Christian, to join the Jewish state. Israel is the ONLY place in the Middle East where Christians can flourish, live freely, without the fear of having their church being blow up, or that its priest will be beheaded.
That's why in Israel, Israeli Arab Christians more and more seek enrollment to the IDF, and why some of them do not want any more to be identified as 'Arab' but rather as 'Aramaic'!
"So what if majority of the inhabitants aren't jews?"
It wouldn't bother me,I wish they had made it one State from the beginning. But they didn't, for a reason. the reason being that they want a JEWISH State.And they still do.
Roads- water- electricity- "settlements-economy, they are all on the occupied land and they could leave it there, or stay and become Palestinians.
Of course most of the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are not from there - they were pushed out of the cities where they are from and had no other choice but to live in the West Bank or Gaza! At the end of the day, they are all Palestinians, and surely would want a country to represent their nationality. I doubt that the majority of Palestinians would be happy merely being 'citizens of Israel' - surely this would take away their identity as Palestinians, which has already been eroded enough.
I think that a two state solution is the clear answer to this problem. If Israelis have a country to call their own, why shouldn't Palestinians have one too? After all, it seems that granting them their own country is the only thing that will truly make them equal to Israelis in the eyes of the law..
"An Israeli map that reaches straight to the Jordan is indeed seductive. All that ancient Jewish history, the jutting crags and deep oases; why not have all of it? "
- Yes, there are settlers who believe in this vision. However, most Israelis do not trust the Palestinians not to arm themselves to the teeth and launch rockets at Tel-Aviv as soon as we pull out of the territories. We are there because we feel we need to protect ourselves and our families, not because of biblical zeal.
You could have the military there and no Palestinians AND no Israeli settlement. The military are there to protect Israel. The settlers are there to settle.
My point is that Oxfam would call for a boycott whether the underlying reasons are settling, or protecting Israel from rockets.
Ah yes, the famous self defence argument. Strange how pure self defence results in a death ratio of almost 7 Palestinians for 1 Israeli over the last 14 years.
Luckily the world is waking up to the propaganda. You can only call a cow a horse for so long, before people start to smell BS.
You say:
'Strange how pure self defence results in a death ratio of almost 7 Palestinians for 1 Israeli over the last 14 years.'
The number of deaths has no relevance to the question of who is just. After all, in WWII 7 million Germans were killed, but "only" amount 250,000 Americans..
In the Israeli-Palestinian case, it has to do with Palestinian's violation of the 4th Geneva Convention, by launching their war crimes aggression against Israel's innocent population, from Gaza's densely populated areas, thus exposing their own people to risks.
At the same time, Israel takes defensive measures such as having every new building constructed equip each apartment with reinforced concrete room, so that if rockets hit the building, the family living there will be safe.
Jimi, so you would be OK with the self-defence argument if for every 7 palestinian deaths there would be at least the same number of Israeli deaths?
The tragic comedy of the so-called progressive mindset so well displayed in this drooling parody of an article is that once you have destroyed the only functioning democracy in the Middle East, the one place where there is genuine freedom of expression and all the other rights you so claim to cherish, and you have achieved in that region what you achieved so thoroughly in southern Africa, then you will immediately start wringing your hands and bemoaning the violence that will then reign supreme and the darkness then unsullied by even a glimmer of light.
Mindless fools who play with other peoples' lives and the destiny of nations as if they were pawns, thinking you will be spared the holocaust you bring down on your own heads. A plague on your house.
The consolation is that when you have finally destroyed all who would be your allies - as you are so close to doing - you will find yourselves alone and friendless against the suicidal and death-worshiping Muslim hordes who have already infiltrated your homeland and are subverting the values for which your worthy ancestors paid so dearly, yes, when the sun sets on your putrid lands (and the shadows already grow long and the days grow cold) those few who remember the serial infidelities and shocking betrayals of the UK and the USA will smile and nod as the flames consume your decadent and putrid culture. A plague on your house indeed.
Carthago Delenda Est.
The problem with this comment is that it lacks a factual foundation. In apartheid South Africa, they had a full democracy within white society, but the vast majority of inhabitants were outside looking in. The same is true in Israel today. Settlers in the West Bank can vote for the Knesset, but Palestinians cannot. That is not a functioning democracy, it's an oligarchy. And if you don't want Palestinians to vote for Knesset members, then you have to divest the area where they reside and give them their own country.
The problem with your comment is that it lacks the factual foundation of you reading mine before replying. I did not say South Africa, I said southern Africa. Huge difference.
About the Israel=apartheid nonsense:
It's hideously ironic that you use Tocqueville as your Nome-de-plume. The very man who stressed that there are certain rights that are inalienable and cannot be taken away by the tyranny of the majority. He would certainly have supported the idea of equal rights and representation being granted to the Palestinians.
Further more, the beauty of a capitalist market economy is that the consumer is under no obligation to buy a product with which they disagree. Exercising the right to refrain from purchasing products made in illegally occupied territories is hardly 'playing with the destiny of nations'.
Israel is the one place in the Middle East where there is freedom of expression? Ha! Only for Israelis. The Palestinians and other indigenous people such as the Bedouins must keep their heads down and resign themselves to their poverty and lack of claim to any sort of citizenship.
Destroyed all who would be our allies? I seriously question if you know anything about how the international system works at all.
It's like you didn't even read the article.
"all who would be your allies??!!!!"
How is Israel an ally of the US?!
A country that hijacks American foreign policy with intensive lobbying so that the needs of almost 300 million Americans are subordinated to those of 8 million Israelis is not an ally but a liability. Israel is to the US what North Korea is to China, a giant pain in the a@# that constantly threatens to get us involved in conflicts which do not further our national interest. In addition, American support for Israel constantly puts as at odds with our allies in Europe and the billion+ Muslims of the world, straining our relationships solely to support some desert settlements that in no way benefit the US.
Nice poetry. Not so good with the facts. If Israel behaved better it would be more secure. Far from protecting the world, Israel is a constant irritant. And Israel is far from the US's only ally. Even in the Middle East, the US has other allies.
So... you really think the muslims are America's natural allies who are at odds with America due to America's relationship with Israel? Seriously? You crack me up, man.
"Bad, bad Israelis! Be quiet and let the palestinians bomb you! How dare you seek to defend your families!? The horror!"
Under the clown's administration with his botoxed foreign secretary, even Israel is no longer an ally to the USA. And there are no other allies in the middle East, unless you refer to the Mullahs in Iran?! The house of Saudi, of course, is quite happy to accept US dollars, as long as they are still worth anything. That obviously does not make them an ally.
Ideological allies count for little in the real world, the Saudis buy (not aid but purchases) billions in arms from the US, allow American troops and bases, and are a far greater counterweight to Iran than Israel. The US has numerous allies across the middle east, not because those countries love America but because it is in their interest, that's how the world works. Israel may have more in common with the US, but its interests are extremely different. All it cares about is a narrow agenda protecting settlements and its own territory, while the US has to secure global trade, energy production/transport, counter-terrorism, etc..etc... These myriad goals can only be accomplished through a strong rapport with the numerous Muslim countries which should not be sacrificed for the needs of a strategically insignificant country. If Israel is invaded the US should come to its defense, other than that the US should look after its own needs first
If you really want to play the self defence game, you have to start right at the beginning. Everyone has the right to defend themselves you say?
What about the Palestinian population who were uprooted or murdered for their land in 1948. What about their descendants who are oppressed to this day. Are they allowed to use force against foreign invaders and violent oppressors?
BDS should spend more of its time bringing to light public attention on the million Arabs killing each other annually instead of its relentless demonization of Israel. Yes. Israel is effing up, but the Sunni/Shia civil war is genocide in Syria.
The message I get is clearly Anti-Semitc. Ignore the 800 lb gorilla in the room and focus on the fly.
One evil should not excuse another. Bashar Assad , Saddam & to a lesser degree Ghadafi & Mubarak are/were evil tyrants. And the revolutions in arab countries are messy to very bloody at this point.
France, USA , most of Europe went through their own bloody revolutions against tyranny. At this point in the long arc of history : citizenship ,property , basic civil rights & personal freedoms are for the most part an inalienable right in these democracies.
Now switch to Israel : its government wants it declared a Jewish state ( the. nazi's wanted a Germany to be an Aryan state & the Apartheid government wanted SA to be a white state ). The Nazi government confiscated the property & ethnically cleansed Jews & Gypsies ( that was before the gas chambers became the plan). The Apartheid government wanted to create Bantu states to extract the natives to.
Israel deserves a BDS movement just like Apartheid SA deserved a boycott movement
You say:
'Now switch to Israel : its government wants it declared a Jewish state'
I take it that this statement stems from a gap in knowledge, so with your permission I will try to explain:
When Israel demands its recognition as a Jewish state, it refers to the nation state of the Jewish people, not a state where everyone must be a Jew by religion. It is meant to be something like having Japan as the nation state of the Japanese people, or China the nation state of the Chinese, or Korea the nation state of the Koreans, etc...
The reference to the Jewish people was mentioned in the Mandate of Palestine assigned to the British, with its main goal of "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people..." (second paragraph)
The third paragraph states:
"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country".
See document:
Further to that, the UN Partition Plan (resolution 181), specifically states that two states are to be established - one Jewish, one Arab.
See Document:
And so the reference you make to Nazi Germany in connection to the Jewish state is not only irrelevant; it is offensive.
As per the Israel=apartheid nonsense, kindly watch this:
And the Spainirds don't allow Protestants to run for or be elected Prime Minister and Jordan and Saudi Arabia don't allow Jews to be citizens and Christians and Jews are not allowed to visit Mecca and every Arab country in the world is a Muslim nation.
So what is your problem with a Jewish nation........are you anti-semitic or just more intelligent then the rest of us in your egalitarian delusional view of why Israel is apartheid and the above mentioned states are not?
So because a tragedy is occurring elsewhere, we should never discuss unrelated issues?
Please, do everyone a favor and stop conflating anti-antisemitism with disapproval of Israel's treatment of Palestine. Israel does not speak for all the Jews of the world, and false allegations of racism serve only to distract from the merits of an argument.
I am disappointed about Spain & Protestant PM . But being an otherwise civilized country I am optimistic it will be fixed in future. And am sure the European Court of justice will immediately cancel it , should a legal case reach it. As for granting citizenship to non-indigenous people , that is a sovereign matter.
The point is simple :
If you are indigenous to a country , your citizenship and accompanying civil , personal & property rights are inalienable regardless of race ,religion ,ancestry , sect etc. Also citizenship is guaranteed to your kids (& all descendants ) unless they willfully immigrate or forsake it. What happened in Nazi Germany was disgusting when it began ( loss of property , loss of professional license, loss of other civil rights . & we all know the horrific end of that). There are many refugees from Israel who because of being born to wrong religion ( Christianity or Islam) & escaping a war ( 1948) lost citizenship & property.
What makes Israel semi-nazi in my opinion are the laws confiscating property & depriving of citizenship based on ancestry . The later settlements & confiscation/human rights abuses are simply a continuation of old habits.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
― Edmund Burke
The fact that you can even remotely compare Israel to Nazis is beyond wasting my time in a debate. The Nazis killed 30-50 million people of all race, creed and color.
The Palestinian population has increased from 400,000 to over 4,000,0000 million since 1948.
So what is BDS then ?
A blind eye to all the ills in the middle except Israel ?
Thats the problem with the Far left, it runs with Arab anti-Semitism and blindly believes it is a just cause while ignoring all the horrors in the Middle East of Arabs killing Arabs.
The Middle East is complex and has many actors.
"The Nazis killed 30-50 million people of all race, creed and color [sic]."
Why not make it 30-50 cagillion people? If you're going to make up historical facts, you may as well go big.
Those are the facts.
What are the numbers you have ?
Anything Oxfam is in favour of I am against, this so called Charity is in fact a very left wing political organisation . It uses its funds to support left wing causes and frankly should be denied its privileged status as a Charity . I worked for it in Mozambique and though some of its funds were used to good advantage a lot was used in financing political factions and personalities its management on the ground felt would be supportive of its activities even when these clashed with what the actual villagers wanted. At seminars I learnt that in many developing countries this was the same ,the rank and file employes were doing thir best but the senior management played politics all the time
Far left political organizations tend to be Muslim sympathizers yet they can't stand misyogony, gay bashing, are usually atheists and abhor violence.........I don't get it.
They have nothing in common with Muslims and knee jerk hatred for Israelis (Whom other then the idiot settlers) who they share a respect of women, gays, secularism and plurality.
So You Want to Boycott Israel?
Such a ridiculous Jewish propaganda. You need to be ignorant to believe it.
You talk about 'Jewish propaganda' and 'ignorance', instead of refuting the content.
Are you out of arguments, SKX...?
It is only allowed with 5000 words here, it is far not enough to give you arguments against it. It makes me laugh.
You know what? - Out of the ~8 minute clip, show me... two statements which you think are incorrect. 50 words would suffice. If you mention facts, that is. Only if one has nothing to say, he needs 5000 of them to hide the truth, that he has nothing of value to say..
Come on al the invenciones mentioned as israelians as telephone that it was invented by Lm Eriksson in Sweden, etc hybrid cars, invented and developed by Volvo and Saab and Toyota. I think every country on Western Europe and USA that has many inventions could make such a clip. Take the swedes for example that I admire. 10 million people that has per capita most of the world inventions in the world.
Here it comes 10 examples of Swedish inventions
Top ten Swedish inventions
Nina Liljeqvist | 10 Nov 2008, 11:44
Nina Liljeqvist looks at ten Swedish inventions that have changed the world.
1. The pacemaker
In 1958, Rune Elmqvist developed a small battery-driven pacemaker. The first operation was carried out later that year, but the device only lasted for a few hours and further adjustments were made. The patient, Arne Larsson, survived the tests and lived until 2001.
2. The three-point seat belt
Nils Bohlin's great invention from 1959 is reputed to save one life every six minutes. It is thereby considered to be one of the most important safety innovations of all time.
3. The Global Positioning System
Håkan Lans is the great mind behind important developments to the satellite-guided GPS system, moulding it into its modern form and ensuring that motorists reach their destinations on time and without hassle.
4. Tetra-Pak
Through the ideas of Erik Wallenberg and his dedicated team, the solution to packaging, storing and distributing liquids such as juice and dairy items was developed in 1951 and has since spread to fridges all over the world.
5. The telephone handset
As early as 1885, Lars Magnus Ericsson created the telephone handset, which was just one of his many improvements to contemporary telephones.
6. The flat screen monitor
The building of the flat-screen monitor was made possible by Sven Torbjörn Lagervall's discovery of ferroelectric liquid crystals in 1979. The technology was developed and in 1994 mass production was begun.
7. The ultra sound
In 1950, Hellmuth Hertz started his pioneering work with ultrasound for medical diagnosis. Together with cardiologist Inge Edler the technique was successfully developed for the analysis of heart diseases.
8. The safety match
In 1844, Gustaf Erik Pasch patented the safety match when he replaced the poisonous yellow phosphorus with non-poisonous red phosphorus.
9. Dynamite
Alfred Nobel invented dynamite in 1866, which earned him one of the 355 patents he had managed to assemble before his death in 1896. Through his life he founded 90 companies and made a huge fortune. In his will he set up the Nobel Prizes for physics, chemistry, medicine, literature and peace.
10. The zipper
The method still used today, based on interlocking teeth, was invented in 1913 by Gideon Sundbäck. Initially it was called the "hookless fastener" and was later redesigned to become more reliable.
Sweden is indeed one of the most innovative countries in the world. let's see for how long it can continue with that, while taking in more and more immigration that sucks increasing welfare benefits..
Speaking about European cities demography, and what that does there - when was the last time you visited Malmo, Sweden's 3rd largest?
I know that in Malmo there are a lot of Muslims and anti semitism, I been there when I was visiting Copenhagen some time ago. It is of course a problem for sweden and it should be much better work for integration.
For integration to succeed, it needs two partners to want it. Just like Tango.
Unfortunately, what those immigrants seek, is stepping on your toes..
say what you will, but the Economist certainly is very adept at spinning something positive into something negative. it is none of the Economists business what choice Johansson has made. If you want to put this in the proper and moral perspective, then list all those who have boycotted Israel in the past because of their " moral"consciences. This is an article that does nothing about nothing.
I was surprised that the Muslim terrorists have endorsed your article! Doesn't say much about your magazine.
"it is none of the Economists business what choice Johansson has made" - your comment.
TE is a magazine that gives its opinion about stuff that goes on in the world - if you do not like reading such articles, then do not read them. Stay with Fox News - they like Scarlett and soda's!!!!
You're 100% correct. When a country like the formerly "great" Britain goes into permanent decline, a formerly great mag like the Economist has nothing positive to write about. Britain's suffering from a severe case of denial and like the economist, only finds solace through a state if Stockholm syndrome.
So true.
Why did you get the recent subscription to "formally great mag" if it doesn't say anything positive. Is this a type of masochism?
Nothing I have read so far in the news media tells me whether SodaStream is a plus or a minus for Palestinians.
That it is in a Jewish settlement is neither here nor there, does SodaStream have the option to be anywhere else in the West Bank? Could it still function in a different location hiring Palestinian workers and enjoy security from sabotage by disgruntled Palestinians? Is it benefiting the settlers more than the Palestinian workers?
If ever there will be a peaceful two-state solution Palestine can benefit greatly from Israeli investments, the Israelis have capital and know-how that can help Palestine grow economically. Jewish settlement well outside present borders will have to either go or be willing to live under Palestinian authority. The latter is unlikely because of the fanatic nature of the present settlers, but there is no reason why a peaceful future cannot accommodate Israeli businesses in Palestine and Israelis living there, just as Palestinian should be able to live and work in Israel proper. It may seem impossibly naive now, but that is what a peaceful Middle East must look like.
"Nothing I have read so far in the news media tells me whether SodaStream is a plus or a minus for Palestinians" - your comment.
Here is what Israeli journalist, Larry Derfner, wrote about this issue last week, in an Israeli magazine:
You say:
'Here is what Israeli journalist, Larry Derfner, wrote about this issue last week, in an Israeli magazine:'
Actually, Derfner wrote about it this week, not last. It took about a week since the SodaStrem-Johansson affair came out, and the Palestinians supposedly managed to threaten / buy ONE Palestinian worker Drefner quotes, from another story published in The Christian Science Monitor, a Palestinian who wouldn't even make the quote under a pseudonyms, not to mention his real one. does he exist at all?!
The other quotes are from a four years old(!) Drefner story at the J'Post, unrelated to SodaStream.
The house of cards you build can't hold for too long. You know that, L6, don't you?
Unlike the Oxfam cowards, who avoid going to court against SodaStream; after all, they say what SodaStream does is illegal, SodaStream took a Palestinian-fan boycott organization to a French court, and won!
The article tries to refute the SodaStream image of a company working for peace and providing opportunities for the Palestinians by pointing out that this happens "on land confiscated from Palestinian territory". Unfortunately this claim is quite wrong. This land has never belonged to a Palestinian state - because there has never been such a state. Nor has the land ever belonged to any private Palestinian owner - "the settlements had only been established after exhaustive investigations making sure none were built on private land", see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements.
The fact that you cite wikipedia is alarming. Do you really trust these "exhaustive investigations" led by people with glaring ulterior motives? I have heard personal testimonials of Palestinians who would wake up to find the border fence had jumped in the night. You should do some research. I highly recommend the book The Lemon Tree. Its very informative on both sides of the conflict.
It is of course very easy to dismiss a statement by putting quotes on it, but it is a litle bit more difficult to find some argument behind the claim that the land is confiscated from a private owner. As for the investigations themselves - it is probably hard for an outsider to imagine the level of legal pressure the Israeli authorities are under. So there is no choice but to make these investigations thorough, otherwise the land-related decision is immediately cancelled by the court of law.
Most people assume that when there is an argument one side (their side) is right and the other side is wrong. It is important to realize, that it is possible that both sides may be wrong.
Perhaps a bit simplistic, Greg, but essentially it's the key to any progress.
I don't think that's "simplistic" at all, as that is a rather pejorative term. I think rather, it is a fundamental truth, that there is fault on both sides of the Arab - Israeli dispute.
Oxfam, Red Cross, and other organizations originally founded with the aim of eliminating poverty, amongst other ills of this world, have found themselves instead supporting what I call the "poverty industry". In other words, the aim is no longer the elimination of poverty, rather it is to use that condition as a means of furthering their own financial interest. The whole fund-raising apparatus has become a self-perpetuating "poverty industry", with very little of the funds raised being directed at the advertised target.
Oxfam's main (unstated) complaint against SodaStream is the fact that that enterprise has demonstrated the correct way to fight poverty and at the same time advance the cause of peace. More power to Ms Johannsen!
It is a fundamental principle of law that no one should profit from a criminal enterprise.
The land on which SodaStream's factory is built was taken from the Palestinians by force. they no longer have the use and access to what was theirs.
However you color it this is theft. It is just as criminal as the Nazis appropriating art work belonging to Jews in the 1930s and 1940s. I think we can say that most countries have accepted the principle of the return of the stolen Jewish art work and worked towards it.
I fail to see how Israeli seizure of Palestinian land can be considered as anything but theft.
Quite big part of Poland was taken from German by force in 1944/45. Are Polish criminals then?
The ceding of German territory to Poland was a condition of the armistice which was agreed to by both parties. No such agreement exists between Palestine and Israel. Indeed former Israeli prime minister, Shamir, is on record as saying that a state of continuous conflict is preferable to peace, if it means that Israel can continue to appropriate Palestinian territory.
This not what you wrote in previous comment. You only referred to "land taken by force".
Whatever else you may think of West Bank settlements, your statement is false. That land was acquired legally - in many cases title was acquired much earlier in the 20th century. In the aftermath of the War of Independence (in 1948) the Jewish occupants were expelled by the Jordanian forces then occupying the West Bank. Likewise, in the Old City of Jerusalem which remained in Jordanian hands following the armistice, the legal Jewish occupants were expelled, their synagogues destroyed, and gravestones from Jewish cemeteries used as paving stones. Read your history before accusing anyone of theft. You are parroting propaganda, Goebbels-style
Palestinian land is taken by force and defended by armed settlers. The settlements have the full force of the IDF behind them because they are sanctioned by the Israeli government. In addition the roads connecting them with Israel, are controlled and patrolled by the IDF. I don't think you can get more forceful than that short of outright open war.
Holocaust compensation expert Sidney Zabludoff estimates that the total loss for all the Jewish displaced persons since 1947 amounts to about $6 billion. He does the same calculation for displaced Palestinians and his estimate is $3.9 billion. The difference between the two populations is that Jews were refugees from many different countries, not all of them Arab. The Palestinian refugees only came from lands which are now claimed by Israel. So it may well be that the Palestinians suffered a greater financial loss in the Israel/Palestine area. In terms of the total number of persons displaced on either side the United Nations estimates of Palestinian refugees in 1948 was 728,000. I have not been able to find any reliable figures of the number of Jews who were displaced specifically from the West Bank but it seems likely that the number of Jews expelled from all countries Arab and non-Arab in 1948 was roughly 1 million. So I don't see that the Jews paid disproportionately for the conflict.
I think this discussion will be much more productive if you confine your self to facts. The introduction of gratuitous insults does nothing to advance matters. And believe me as someone who fought against the Germans in the second world war I find your last remark insulting
I apologize for any insult. I'm unsure of what exactly the purpose is of the Zabludoff statistics you quote - I am sure they are accurate. Regardless of those statistics, however, the fact remains that the land those settlements are built upon was not stolen, and to make a statement like that betrays a mischievous intent.
Regarding the legality of the settlement enterprise, Oxfam is using language from the League of Nations. It is indeed illegal to use land seized in the aftermath of invasion (as the Germans did in WW ll). In the case of the so-called "occupied territories", however, all that can be stated of those territories is that they are "disputed", and their disposition certainly has to be the subject of an agreement between the Israelis and the Palestinians.
I personally believe that the settlements themselves do not pose a serious impediment (to a peace agreement) as you are led to believe. The main stumbling-block, as always, is the Muslim world's refusal to countenance a non-Muslim state (Israel) in what they believe should be Muslim territory. That has always been their position from the British Mandate era up to the present time. As long as they hold that view, I regret that no lasting peace is attainable in the near future, and that is a tragedy even more for the Palestinians than for the Israelis. I fervently wish I was wrong.
With regard to your post, it bears notice that the Palestinians are the only nation officially accorded the status of "permanent refugees". Might I suggest that giving them that status was the worst thing ever done to them.
Taking of personal property without compensation is indeed a crime. "Taking" of territory that "was Palestinian" in some vague general sense of racial ownership is quite another question. The "crime" of having Jews move into an area that had been kept so nicely Judenrein is less universally recognized than it used to be.
Yet the two "crimes"are almost always conflated on this discussion. Is there evidence that the property on which the factory stands was, in fact, seized from private owners, no matter what their ethnicity (as does happen with dismaying frequency under the military administration)? Or is this just the xenophobic reaction to "foreign influence"?
Note that the Hamas Charter does, however, take this view explicitly, stating in Article 11,
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day" which may never be returned to non -Muslim administration; in fact, "and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force". http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp which kind of puts the two state solution into some doubt.
"Indeed former Israeli prime minister, Shamir, is on record as saying that a state of continuous conflict is preferable to peace, if it means that Israel can continue to appropriate Palestinian territory."
Rather ironic, in that the situation of permanent occupation of the Palestinians is the direct result of the Arab states' adoption of the Khartoum Resolutions after the 1967 war; no recognition of Israel, no treaty with Israel, no peace with Israel.
You don't suppose they were conspiring with Shamir, do you?
Amen. I could not have stated it better.
You are absolutely right. It is interesting to look back and see how this happened.
Unfortunately every actor in this sorry drama has been characterized by their venal desires, duplicity and in some cases outright stupidity. You also have to look at the atmosphere and political outlook at the start of this series of events.
There has always been a great desire among Jews to return to what they call their homeland. This has persisted for more than 2000 years. It is based on a supposed promise made by God to the Jewish people. However neither the Jews nor anyone else can prove that God exists so, what is the value of such a promise.
The promise was further advanced by the British, who in return for explosives manufactured by Weizmann during the first world war agreed to establish a token state in the protectorate of Palestine which they then held. This was further advanced by forcing through resolution in the League of Nations. It continued to be a sore point with the Palestinians and conflict existed between the wars. It is also true that major nations like the United States and the Soviet Union tried to undermine British influence in the Middle East by establishing their own kind of state in Palestine. The Soviet Union failed because communism clashed directly with the religious nature of the Zionists.
The United States provided a small flow of immigrants who were largely supported by American Jews. Between the wars there was a great deal of anti-Semitic feeling in the United States. This is evidenced by the fact that the United States accepted fewer refugees from Nazi Germany than did Switzerland. They also turned back ships from Europe carrying refugees.
At the end of the war, when the full nature of the final solution was evident, the floodgates for the emigration of European Jews opened. The British, conscious of the state of conflict which already existed between the Israeli settlers and the Palestinians tried to limit immigration to Israel. However this was undermined largely by the United States who were interested in undercutting the British power in the Middle East. They were also fearful of a mass emigration of European Jews to the United States.
From this point on the Jewish population in Israel increased very rapidly. There was a need for extra land to accommodate this increase. This resulted in a number of wars in which Israel triumphed. A further influx of European Jews occurred when the Soviet Union collapsed. All of this put increasing pressure on Israel to appropriate Palestinian land. This they did largely under the mistaken impression that the land was their God-given right in the first place.
So what of the Palestinians? They were clearly the losers. So they were forced further and further into religious extremism. Their continued fight against the Israelis is deeply religiously based. This is shown by their willingness to die for supposed rewards they will gain in heaven. Again from a God that they cannot prove exists. They are in the hands of unscrupulous fanatical leaders. These leaders believe that the conflict is actually to demonstrate that Allah is superior to Jehovah. But the moment it appears that Jehovah is winning. So, the Palestinian refugees are to be sacrificed in much the same way as a suicide bomber is sacrificed. This situation also gives the Israelis every opportunity to appropriate land. So we have the situation where neither side is, in my view, even contemplating a peaceful solution. And as usual in this type of conflict neither side has anything to be proud of.
So, I agree with you that the Palestinian leaders are in fact helping drive forward the concepts of Shamir in establishing settlements.
Only if we truly love our friends do we tell them the truth.
Jonathan Ben Artzi, a nephew to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, went to jail for 18 months for refusing to serve in the IDF pleaded with US:
"If Americans truly are our friends, they should shake us up and take away the keys, because right now we are driving drunk, and without this wake-up call, we will soon find ourselves in the ditch of an undemocratic, doomed state."
One can believe that the continued occupation is corrosive to Israel (and not that great for the Palestinians either), without depicting Israel as the worst nation in the world, Nazis, apartheid, etc; many do feel that way, both within and without Israel's borders.
It is, however, harder to convince the Israeli voter that empowering the Palestinians will not come at the cost of Israeli lives. The conversion of Gaza into a platform for random rocket launching hasn't done much to convince them.
Thoughts and opinions on America's kinetic brand of politics. The blog is named after Alexis de Tocqueville's study of American politics and society
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The week ahead: A very normal affair
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text:
I loved watching her confusion, because at nearly four she's mostly on the far side of the terrible twos (you know they last way longer than a year, right?). 'You were just behaving like that yesterday,' I thought to myself. 'How don't you recognize it?' That's both true and a metaphor: she had a furious outburst yesterday afternoon because she didn't want to say goodbye to her friends, but mostly she's entered the age of reasoning. It just feels like yesterday that no! was her own favorite word. Time flies, and all that.
When I started writing here in March 2008, it was E who was twoing terribly. I needed an outlet for myself, because it took so much of me to be a calm, soothing mama to a wild two-year-old and a baby L who was just figuring out how to roll over. I needed to figure out two kids, after I had barely managed one. I needed to figure out how I would manage them both as the lovely husband began traveling for work again, and as I prepared to return to work after several months' maternity leave. I needed to figure out the terrible twos and rolling over and husband in Florida and my own work and the 'me' part of the balance. I needed to figure out me.
I've refound me and held onto her. Most nights the lovely husband packs lunches and leaves me to write, and isn't that a gift? Isn't he a gift? He knows that if I give a little time to my own mind I feel so much better. I'll sleep better and feel a greater calm through the next day. I hold onto me.
I've made a practice of writing. I've made a practice of spending a few minutes a night for myself. I've published 999 posts. This one is my thousandth.
And I will need to come back here and keep writing, because balance is ever more elusive. Without this space and you, I don't know if I have the strength to face the terrible twos for a third time.
Indulge me tonight. I've told you why I'm here. Now you tell me: why are you here?

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Sarreid Ltd.
Since 1967, Sarreid Ltd. has been dedicated to combining craftsmanship with time honored materials to create unique treasures. We search the globe to find elements with the artistic heritage necessary to create each unique piece. Designs are given to select craftsmen who make lasting home furnishings of Sarreid. Unique designs, classic techniques, hand craftsmanship, and fine materials remain the core values inspiring our distinctive, eclectic, high quality, decorative home furnishings.


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Welcome Margolis, Phipps & Wright, P.C.
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Phil0124 Jan 28, 2013 3:30 PM
Re: Wall Charger for ipad in response to kellyfromohioThat depends on the charger being used.
The iPad Mini requires at least a 5W charger. iPods typically require less, around 2W.
Why don't you use the included 5W charger that comes with the iPad Mini? That charger can charge your mini as well as your iPod.
Texas Mac Man Jan 28, 2013 5:51 PM
Re: Wall Charger for ipad in response to kellyfromohioSee link below about iPhone, iPod, Using the iPad Charger
The quickest way (and really the only way) to charge your iPad is with the included 10W or 12W (5W on Mini) USB Power Adapter. iPad will also charge, although more slowly, when attached to a computer with a high-power USB port (many recent Mac computers) or with an iPhone Power Adapter (5W). When attached to a computer via a standard USB port (2.5W, most PCs or older Mac computers) iPad will charge very slowly (but iPad indicates not charging). Make sure your computer is on while charging iPad via USB. If iPad is connected to a computer that's turned off or is in sleep or standby mode, the iPad battery will continue to drain.
Apple recommends that once a month you let the iPad fully discharge & then recharge to 100%.
How to Calibrate Your Mac, iPhone, or iPad Battery
At this link http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/galaxy-tab-android-tablet,3014-11.html , tests show that the iPad 2 battery (25 watt-hours) will charge to 90% in 3 hours 1 minute. It will charge to 100% in 4 hours 2 minutes. The new iPad has a larger capacity battery (42 watt-hours), so using the 10W charger will obviously take longer. If you are using your iPad while charging, it will take even longer. It's best to turn your new iPad OFF and charge over night. Also look at The iPad's charging challenge explained http://www.macworld.com/article/1150356/ipadcharging.html
Also, if you have a 3rd generation iPad, look at
Apple: iPad Battery Nothing to Get Charged Up About
http://allthingsd.com/20120327/apple-ipad-battery-nothing-to-get-charged-up-abou t/
Apple Explains New iPad's Continued Charging Beyond 100% Battery Level
New iPad Takes Much Longer to Charge Than iPad 2
http://www.iphonehacks.com/2012/03/new-ipad-takes-much-longer-to-charge-than-ipa d-2.html
Apple Batteries - iPad http://www.apple.com/batteries/ipad.html
Extend iPad Battery Life (Look at pjl123 comment)
New iPad Slow to Recharge, Barely Charges During Use
http://www.pcworld.com/article/252326/new_ipad_slow_to_recharge_barely_charges_d uring_use.html
Best Practices for iPad Battery Charging
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/best-practices-for-ipad-batte ry-charging/
Tips About Charging for New iPad 3
http://goodscool-electronics.blogspot.com/2012/04/tips-about-charging-for-new-ip ad-3.html
How to Save and Prolong the battery life of your new ipad
Prolong battery lifespan for iPad / iPad 2 / iPad 3: charging tips
iPhone, iPod, Using the iPad Charger
Install and use Battery Doctor HD
To Extend a Device's Battery Life, Get to Know It Better
iPad Battery Replacement
In rare instances when using the Camera Connection Kit, you may notice that iPad does not charge after using the Camera Connection Kit. Disconnecting and reconnecting the iPad from the charger will resolve this issue.
Cheers, Tom


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Using technology
Being able to use computers, mobile phones and other gadgets for work, leisure and keeping in contact are key tools for blind and partially sighted people.
We've gathered lots of information and point to you many more resources you can use to learn about and keep up to date with technology. eBooks are a big topic in technology, and are covered in the Reading section of our website.
Technology for life
Listen to blind and partially sighted people of all ages explain how technology has made their lives easier
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Sign up for 'Switch On' our free quarterly e-newsletter with information and advice for making the most of everyday technology. We'll also let you know about products that have been designed with blind and partially sighted people in mind available from the high street and specialists
You'll also find technology news, reviews and events in our TechKnowMore blog. The TechKnowMore blog also features our Website of the Month and App of the Month.
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If you've recently bought a technology product, but you're having difficulty using it, call RNIB's Technology Support Squad. Our team of 800 volunteers from across the UK can help you set up and get to grips with technology for free. From TVs and computers through to mobile phones and eBook readers, we can give you advice over the phone or visit you at home. Visit our Technology Support Squad webpage or call our Helpline on 0303 123 9999 to find out more or request a free volunteer.
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"Our membership in Jane Doe Inc. provides me with a statewide support network, particularly from people of color at all leadership levels, deepening my sense of purpose and vision on a personal, professional and organizational level that ultimately enhances the YWCA's work with survivors." ~ Vilma Lora, Co-Director of Women's Services, YWCA of Greater Lawrence
Photo Credits
Unless noted below, the photographs used on our website were taken by JDI staff or provided to JDI with permission to use without attribution. We would like to thank everyone including the photographers listed below for sharing their vision with us and allowing us to tell the story of our work through their images.
It's Your Business Breakfast 2011 by Marilyn Humphries
Silent Witnesses by Christopher Mason
MA White Ribbon Day 2010 by Ilene Perlman
MA White Ribbon Day 2011 by Ilene Perlman
JDI Annual Meeting 2010 by Liese Jones


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previous: Organon aphorisms § 196 - 203 next: Organon aphorisms § 210 - 230
--- 205 Organon aphorism ---
[118] I cannot therefore advise, for instance, the local extirpation of the so-called cancer of the lips and face (the product of highly developed psora, not infrequently in conjunction with syphilis) by means of the arsenical remedy of Frere Cosme, not only because it is excessively painful and often fails, but more for this reason, because, if this dynamic remedy should indeed succeed in freeing the affected part of the body from the malignant ulcer locally, the basic malady is thereby not diminished in the slightest, the preserving vital force is therefore necessitated to transfer the field of operation of the great internal malady to some more important part (as it does in every case of metastasis), and the consequence is blindness, deafness, insanity, suffocative asthma, dropsy, apoplexy, etc. But this ambiguous local liberation of the part from the malignant ulcer by the topical arsenical remedy only succeeds, after all, in those cases where the ulcer has not yet attained any great size, and when the vital force is still very energetic; but it is just in such a state of things that the complete internal cure of the whole original disease is also till practicable.
The result is the same without previous cure of the inner miasm when cancer of the face or breast is removed by the knife alone and when encysted tumors are enucleated; something worse ensues, or at any rate death is hastened. This has been the case times without number, but the old school still goes blindly on in the same way in every new case, with the same disastrous results.
[119] Itch eruption, chancre (bubo), condylomata.
--- 206 Organon aphorism ---
[120] In investigations of this nature we must not allow ourselves to be deceived by the assertions of the patients or their friends, who frequently assign as the cause of chronic, even of the severest and most inveterate diseases, either a cold caught (a thorough wetting, drinking cold water after being heated) many years ago, or a former fright, a sprain, a vexation (sometimes even a bewitchment), etc. These causes are much too insignificant to develop a chronic disease IN A HEALTHY BODY, to keep it up for years, and to aggravate it year by year, as is the case with all chronic diseases from developed psora. Causes of a much more important character than these remembered noxious influences must lie at the root of the initiation and progress of a serious, obstinate disease of long standing; the assigned causes could only rouse into activity the latent chronic miasm.


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John Frieda Frizz-Ease Heat Defeat Protective Styling Spray
Esmeralda S.Perris CaHairAuburnDry HairColor Treated HairThick or Coarse HairGreat Producti have thick curly hair after i tried this product my hair was smooth it woorks goood!!posted Feb 23, 2012Link to this post
JoeHairMedium BrownCurly HairEh...This is okay. I spray it in my hair before a straighten it. It doesn't really do anything to get rid of frizz. And I'm not sure if this is a heat protectant or not. IT says it is but when I straghten my hair, I can see the product burning. I'm am sort of disappionted.posted Jan 15, 2012Link to this post
MariaHairDark BrownNormal HairStraight Hair All DayThis stuff works great when you spray it on dry hair right before using a flat iron... it protects my hair, but it also keeps it SUPER straight and frizz free all day. A great product for the price!posted Sep 27, 2011Link to this post
SharenaBowling Green, OHHairMedium BrownThick or Coarse HairDepends On What Your Looking For!i'm brown skinned and i can say i dont have any complaints as far as my hair being damaged from heat, but that all it does no shine, no moisturizing, just protecting.posted Sep 20, 2011Link to this post
KaitlynHairMedium BrownDry HairCurly HairColor Treated HairHaven't Tried Yet, But Considering The Reviews & Hoping For Good Results.I have not used this product yet but I did buy it today. I read all the reviews and they are on opposite ends. Some people say its magic but others hate it. From what I can tell is... when you use for blow drying its great but when you just use it for straightening its not good. Thats just my thoughts, not everybody said how they used it but I will most likely test my theory out soon. Im really hoping it works for me. I have curly hair and straightening is not a problem but within an hour it starts to go wavy again. I actually went to the store to buy John Frieda's 3 day straight ( also never tried before ) but I bought this instead considering it was cheaper and I wasnt planning on keeping my hair straight for 3 days. I just want something to keep my hair straight for the day, which this product says it does.posted Aug 12, 2011Link to this post
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AlisaColumbus, Ohio, USAHairDark BrownDry HairCurly HairGreat Results On My Ethnic HairI am Black or mixed [black, fijian, native american...] and have soft, very thick, kinky & curly hair. I use the serum & heat defeat prior to blow drying, and then the heat defeat w/my sedu flat iron. This product has been very effective for me. The heat defeat spray makes my hair more silky and straight, than just using the serum alone.posted Nov 7, 2010Link to this post
Latoya H.New Haven,ctHairBlackThick or Coarse HairThis Is The Bomb!!! LolI am an African american woman with thick coarse hair which is very prone to damage.So I decided to start using a heat protectant. I went into rite aid and I couldn't find a particular brand but I came a across the frizz ease product and I absolutely loveeeee it !! I got so many compliments on my hair it has so much bounce and a such a healthy look.posted Oct 19, 2010Link to this post
Tara Z.United StatesHairMedium BrownNormal HairReally Good!I loved this product not just because I used it when I blow dried, but because I could also use it when I straightened my hair! I didn't notice anything for frizz ease, but made my hair super soft! It doesn't get the pin straight look, though.posted Sep 25, 2010Link to this post
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Billy Donovan's son Billy, a college basketball player who interned in Washington last summer, had another coach's son as a roommate last summer by total coincidence. / Matthew Emmons, USA TODAY Sports
WASHINGTON -- Of course, it was the third father who facilitated the connection originally, not either of the two involved in Sunday's Elite Eight matchup.
No, it was Chris Hyland who accidentally set up the unlikeliest of roommates -- the sons of Billy Donovan and John Beilein, who lived together last summer, seven months before their fathers would face off for a trip to the Final Four.
"What are the chances?" said Kathleen Beilein, John's wife, by phone Saturday morning. "It makes for a fun little story."
Last May, Hyland stood in a security line at Chicago O'Hare airport, chatting up a stranger next to him, Michigan coach John Beilein. Beilein and Hyland discussed Hyland's son, Ryan, who's an assistant at Division III Catholic University, and his coaching aspirations. Then, the conversation switched over to Beilein's son, Andy. A recent Michigan graduate, Andy had just accepted a summer internship in Washington and struggled to find housing.
"My dad laughed a little bit," Ryan said. "He told him, 'You know, I don't want to be too forward, but my son's actually looking for a roommate in Washington.' "
The fathers exchanged contact information. Hyland thought it might be weird to trust a stranger in a security line, so he told Beilein, if he needed a reference, he could give Florida coach Billy Donovan a call.
Donovan's son, also named Billy, had just finished up his sophomore season at Catholic. He had plans to transfer to the University of Florida for the fall, but at the time, he was interning for Florida senator Marco Rubio. He lived with Ryan.
Andy took the third spot in the apartment without seeing it, agreeing to live with Ryan and a third roommate he didn't know.
"They had no idea," Ryan said.
Neither did the elder Donovan -- at least not for awhile.
"I saw John Beilein during July recruiting and he's like, 'Hey, our sons are living together,' " Donovan said. "I'm like, 'Really? And I go to my son and he says, 'Yeah, Coach Beilein!' I say, 'Well, it would be nice to at least tell me.' But what a really, really cool thing. ... It was kind of a really a unique thing. But my son loved John's son, and they had a great relationship there.
"Small world."
Andy and Billy met for the first time the weekend Andy moved in. Billy says he remembers an NBA playoff game being on TV.
"He walked in, and we sat down, and it was probably the quietest room on the planet, like a church," Andy said. "Both of us are kind of shy guys. We were sitting there, both knowing who each other was. We just sat there and watched an NBA game, not saying much."
During their two months together, the three roommates watched a lot of NBA playoff games and talked a lot of hoops. (OK, Ryan talked the most, being the "chatterbox" of the group, Andy said.) Billy moved back to Gainesville in August.
Two weeks ago, when the bracket was unveiled, Ryan circled the South region's Elite Eight matchup. His roommates and their famous fathers.
"It's pretty funny," the younger Billy said. "We have a little bit in common."
Contributing: Eric Prisbell in Arlington, Texas
Copyright 2015
Read the original story: Sons of Elite Eight foes Billy Donovan, John Beilein were summer roommates


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AFAIC, UBUNTU gone to the ZOO long ago
Phoronix: Ubuntu 12.10 Is Ready To Enter The Zoo
It's release day today for Ubuntu 12.10, which was developed under the animal codename of "Quantal Quetzal", and boasts many new features...
AFAIC, UBUNTU gone to the ZOO long ago
it's a joke of an OS because of X.org and pulseaudio. Also because you need to add PPA to get the latest apps. also because of lack of itunes and office.
It's out now.
Intel i5 2500 + Radeon 7870, standard setup.
It works only with the default driver which is dog slow.
With fglrx it works only up to the login screen, after that no desktop, not even terminal (ctrl + alt + F*).
Nice work AMD, Canonical and Kernel guys.
This is because your Radeon is too new for the OSS-driver and the software-based LLVMpipe-driver is used.It works only with the default driver which is dog slow.
The latest fglrx-driver which is included in Ubuntu 12.10 should support your card. But fglrx is known to be a bit shaky.With fglrx it works only up to the login screen, after that no desktop, not even terminal (ctrl + alt + F*).
Blame AMD for not releasing a proper driver for your card and/or full specs in time to the kernel developers. Canonical can only pick the work of the kernel developers and they can't to magic.Nice work AMD, Canonical and Kernel guys.
I had kernel headers missing for some reason. Stupid I know.
Make sure to have "linux-headers-generic"(except if you want pae etc, do accordingly), then reinstall fglrx/fglrx-updates(apt-get install --reinstall).
That worked for me. Oh, and "amdconfig --initial -f" ..(as root always)
Don't know if this can fix it for you.
Much the same way Windows8 is a joke of an OS because it lacks iPhoto and Garage Band. In reality you can run most of MS Office suite on Linux, you just shouldn't. And Banshee has support for iDevices, or so I hear. Wouldn't touch them with a barge pole myself, but there you go.
I'm with you on pulseaudio and the entire Unix/Linux graphics stack train wreck though. There's a reason every modern desktop OS (by that I mean designed since early 80s) eschews network transparency and the window manager architecture. It was great for thin client terminals in the age of ye olde 10base2, but has to be hacked around with all sorts of barely working extensions to support functionality people demand from a desktop (e.g., full screen or windowed 1080p video with no tearing at the same time as 3d applications are running while compositing UI).
Pulse likewise has the wrong goals. I can count the times I've wanted to easily play a movie soundtrack on some remote machine instead of the one I'm using on the toes of one hand. Low latency and minimal resource use is something I look for every time.
Good news is Wayland will drag the Linux graphics stack into this millenium kicking and screaming, and it's possible to replace pulseaudio with alsa without too much pain.


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Sadiyaan is a periodic film based on the Hindu-Muslim partition in India.
Cast: Hema Malini, Rishi Kapoor, Rekha, Ferena Wazir, Luv Sinha
Produced by:
Directed by: Raj Kanwar
Written by:
Running time:
2hr 25min
Opens: Apr 02, 2010 Limited
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