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Square-profiled acrylic wine glass in red takes the edge off entertaining, indoors and out, and stack up neatly for bar, buffet or storage.


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What is Vocation?
Book by Stephen Nichols
For some people work is tedious and boring. They cannot wait until the weekend. For others, work is their life, they cannot imagine their lives without it. Both of these perspectives lack a biblical framework for how to approach work … Learn More
Getting the Blues: What Blues Music Teaches Us about Suffering and Salvation
Book by Stephen Nichols
Weaving Bible stories together with intriguing details of the lives of blues musicians such as Robert Johnson and Muddy Waters, Nichols reveals what blues music teaches about sin, suffering, alienation, and worship. He delves into how the blues can intensify … Learn More
How Then Shall We Worship?
Book by R.C. Sproul
Today's church cannot seem to agree on what corporate worship should look like. Some choose contemporary forms, others prefer traditional expressions. Yet pop culture or the status quo do not hold the answers. God's Word does. Dr. Sproul digs deep … Learn More
The Assurance of Our Salvation: Exploring the Depth of Jesus' Prayer for His Own
Book by D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones
Just hours before his betrayal and arrest, Jesus offered his famous High Priestly Prayer—one of the most intimate moments between Christ and his Father recorded in Scripture. John 17 has thus greatly encouraged Christians for millennia as it boldly affirms … Learn More
Anne Bradstreet: A Guided Tour of the Life and Thought of a Puritan Poet
Book by Heidi Nichols
Anne Bradstreet (1612-1672) was America's first published poet. She lived in England and the Colonies during a remarkable historic period marked by civil and religious strife and political upheaval. Bradstreet's life and work challenge stereotypes of Puritans, revealing her vibrant … Learn More
Justification by Grace through Faith
Book by Brian Vickers
Justification is God's declaration that sinners are made right with him through faith in Christ, whose life, death, and resurrection provide forgiveness and the righteousness God desires of his people. This doctrine of justification as an alien, imputed righteousness has … Learn More
The Promises of God
Book by R.C. Sproul
In this all-new book from R. C. Sproul, readers learn why God is the only Promise Maker worth trusting. With an exploration of the meaning of covenant and specific covenants from the Old Testament through Christ, Dr. Sproul shows how … Learn More
Handbook of Church Discipline
Book by Jay Adams
This is a handbook for pastors, elders, and all Christians who want to see how Scripture presents the process of discipline that should operate in the Christian community. It was written in response to the various concerns that threaten to … Learn More
Leading with Love
Book by Alexander Strauch
This book provides leaders and teachers a clear understanding of what the Bible teaches about love. This understanding is essential to you as an individual leader and to the church as a whole. It will —Significantly improve your relational skills … Learn More
Disability and the Gospel: How God Uses Our Brokenness to Display His Grace
Book by Michael Beates
Michael Beates's concern with disability issues began nearly 30 years ago when his eldest child was born with multiple profound disabilities. Now, as more families like his are affected by a growing number of difficulties ranging from down syndrome to … Learn More
The Tabernacle Pre-Figured: Cosmic Mountain Ideology in Genesis and Exodus
Book by L. Michael Morales
In the ancient Near East, where cosmos and cult were of a piece, temples were the architectural embodiment of the cosmic mountain. This monograph explores how the mountain narratives of the Hebrew Bible canonically preceding the establishment of the tabernacle … Learn More
Tell the Truth: The Whole Gospel Wholly by Grace Communicated Truthfully & Lovingly
Book by Will Metzger
In this fourth edition of his classic "Tell the Truth," Will Metzger adds a new introductory essay, a new arrangement of content, updates and clarifications throughout, reproducible charts and other aids, a study guide, a list of recommended reading, and … Learn More
Book by R.C. Sproul
Here is a substantial and practical commentary on the first book of the New Testament canon, one that will serve the church well and will be of great use in small-group settings, sermon preparation, or personal Bible study. Other volumes … Learn More

subset: commoncrawl


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County wants to use more volunteers
Joshua SeboldStaff Writer
The Board of Supervisors meeting Tuesday, May 4, featured two major steps towards bringing back previously popular programs that allowed volunteers to drive mobility-challenged county residents to medical appointments.
Risk Manager Shawn Montgomery told the supervisors she was working with the human resources department to create an organized and defensible program for supporting the use of volunteers in county departments.
Montgomery said there were more volunteers working for county departments than she had been aware of.
"Volunteers are supposed to be treated in essence like a county employee. They have to fall under workman's comp by law and they're supposed to show they're a citizen and all that kind of stuff."
She and Human Resources Director Gayla Trumbo had been working on developing some forms and a process to officially enroll volunteers into authorized agreements with county departments and programs.
The risk manager said there was a balance that had to be struck between having a formal policy and not making it so onerous that it drives people away.
BOS Chairwoman and Chester Supervisor Sherrie Thrall said it seemed ironic the board had been advised by its previous insurance provider to not use volunteers and took efforts to avoid using them in some areas, "and then you find out we have already been doing it anyway."
Supervisor Robert Meacher added that this is an important time politically for the battle to maintain the right for government agencies to use volunteers. "Every now and then, as much as I am a Democrat, labor unions try to get involved in this.
"A lot of times the firefighters associations or other political means try to get the Division of Labor Standards, or whatever it is at the state, to nail nonprofits and other organizations for using volunteers, so we need to be vigilant."
"The reason I know about it is a lot of watershed programs use volunteers on weekends and beaches, state parks, for clean-ups, and they were all hit with a bill by the state to pay these people prevailing rates."
"So we got an exemption and that sunsets this year.
"So someone's obviously going to carry a piece of legislation to reinstate it and one to continue the exemptions, so we just need to track that."
The second half of the medical transport puzzle came together when Public Health Agency Director Mimi Hall appeared before the board asking to use approximately $7,000 of contingency funds from the Senior Nutrition program to match $36,000 from the U.S. Department of Agriculture to buy a wheelchair accessible van that didn't require a special license to drive.
She added the bus had capacity for two large wheelchairs at once.
She said the vehicle could be used specifically for transporting seniors to events relating to the program, but that it would also be available for other departments to use for similar purposes when it wasn't being used for its primary function.
Thrall said she thought this was "really good leverage of money.
"Secondly, I see it as a key part of this volunteer program that we've been talking about to have a vehicle that a volunteer could drive without having to have a special license, and also the wheelchair accessibility is very important, and economy of scale of having a van rather than the bus trying to drive two people around.
"Those of us that are on the transportation commission know that we've just stopped any service to Reno and that has created a big problem for people seeking non-emergency medical."
Hall said the vehicle was an 2008 model with only 200 miles on it and Senior Nutrition Coordinator Martha Heezel said everyone she talked to said trying to buy a more used van of that type for less money would get you a "very well-used" vehicle.


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Quilting Timeby Jenkat Games
Get ready to be spoiled by the lovable Grandma Giddywinks and some delightful Puzzle-solving fun! It`s quilting time! Every quilt has a distinct pattern, and it is your objective to try and impress Grandma Giddywinks by uncovering the pattern and completing your quilt block before time runs out! With many patterns to complete and plenty of quilt fabrics to choose from, the varieties of quilt puzzles are endless.
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monkeyinabarrel wrote on 02 February 2012 - 12:37 AM:
Honestly I'm really not that surprised. South East Asia has been invaded by Chinese probably and also the Spanish/French came. Though I would have never thought Cambodia is more mixed than Vietnam. Korea as far as I remember Japanese never lived there and brought a few Koreans to Japan.
AltaicTiger wrote on 03 February 2012 - 12:36 AM:
Chinese are also quite mixed. Taiwanese and other Chinese from the south are more similar to eachother, but North Chinese are more similar to Northeast Asians (Koreans and Japanese).
Japanese are more similar to South Asians (Indians).
Cambodians are a mix of Southeast Asians and South Asians (Indians).
Naked-Fanatic wrote on 03 February 2012 - 05:04 PM:
The original post reminds me of another troll thread in another forum.......
green papaya wrote on 03 February 2012 - 04:36 PM:
maybe the original inhabitants / Indigenous people that were in Japan first
but your average Japanese looks nothing like an Indian racial stock
o________O wrote on 02 February 2012 - 04:41 PM:
What's the purpose of these statistics..?
Dara-chan wrote on 03 February 2012 - 06:15 PM:
Very insightful
@ o_______O These studies help historians. Such as, if I were a historian studying the migratory patterns of early civilizations this information would probably help me in my research
daintymilk wrote on 06 February 2012 - 03:59 AM:
This would makes sense why North Chinese look similar to Koreans in terms of appearances.
AltaicTiger wrote on 07 February 2012 - 05:50 PM:
Only the Northern Chinese from Shandong and more north towards Manchuria look more similar to Koreans/Japanese. However most Han Chinese are closer to Southeast Asians when compared to Koreans.
Japanese are closer to South Asians (Indians). The explanation is that the Japanese natives (the Jomon) had darker skin and Dravidian/Australoid features.
AltaicTiger wrote on 01 February 2012 - 06:35 PM:
Basically what the chart shows is that Koreans are the most pure Northeast Asian (Altaic peoples), whereas Han Chinese are very diverse. Japanese are different from Koreans in that the Japanese are dragged more towards South Asians.
This is because of the Aboriginals of Japan (the Jomon) who are similar to Negritos (Y-DNA haplogroup D carriers) and South Asian Indians.
Recent genetic admixture chart
*quoted image*
green papaya wrote on 07 February 2012 - 09:33 PM:
the Japanese that are closely related to the Jomon are not the majority though, you sound like your saying all Japanese are direct decendent of the Jomon?
seems like the Jomon are more of a ethnic minority of Japan
venus17 wrote on 12 February 2012 - 10:05 AM:
interesting, thank you for posting!
to the person who asked for the point of this thread - what is the point of you being on this thread? quit trolling.
koreanballads wrote on 12 February 2012 - 04:59 PM:
Koreans believe in the purity of their race. Now there seems to be scientific evidence for this (I could be wrong). This is intimidating or otherwise offensive to some peoples sensibilities.


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Obviously it'll have a better name that 'my new fantasy' So I've started work on a new fantasy novel (my third attempt, after the last two didn't get very far and I lost passion for them... that's not a spectre looming over this work!) and I've decided I'll be trying to steer away from cliches. That doesn't mean it'll be all new creatures (sentient and not), or all new spells or all new types of places. There'll be whatever I can think of, of course, and I'll try my best to be original. But the point of this work is to avoid cliches, and to do so when it's possible without stretching credibility (sometimes bending over backwards to go anti-cliche is just contrived, obviously, or it just stands out like a sore thumb for one reason or another). This is my sounding board. People can give me feedback on ideas - not the actual writing, that goes somewhere else I think, although I could be talked into posting it on this forum in the appropriate place. I'm just going to use this thread as a 'master thread' and bounce ideas around in general.
Title I liked The Silver Crystal (title thread), and some of those more 'winning' ones might become sequels. I also thought The Shadow Crystal or The Shadow Shard were okay. But of course, it's early stages yet and it doesn't have to be that title. Characters I should state that yes, it's got D&D influence, but only lightly - lighter than say, novels published by D&D. I sense that D&D is a bit of a polarising force around here. But sometimes an author can pull off great fiction based on a mechanics-heavy combat game. It's not different than those short story threads that take inspiration from (typically story-less) games from the 80s or earlier, like Space Invaders or Pong, and making stories out of them. That's a fun game. I had my local critique group in stitches with Memoirs of a Space Invader, even if it was really short. Anyway. Drounn Golan (I don't know, ending both names with 'n' seems a little off, though probably not as bad as Superman characters' more famous naming conventions: Clark Kent, Lois Lane, Lana Lang, Lex Luthor...) a male gnome fighter who causes trouble from general foolishness more than anything sinister. A cowboy type. Sir Jareth dar' Canterbury, esquire: a gentlemanly paladin/knight type with a cane sword and monocle (and red jacket, can't forget the red jacket). He's aging but a great partier. Really in touch with the common folk. Aristocrat first, then paladin. The only one intentionally not anti-cliche, as such. Fenae, a young elf girl with - and here I don't know which colours to go with: red/chestnut hair and green eyes, or is copper coloured hair a real thing, and does it go with blue eyes? - who is a city elf and doesn't know a thing about bows or hunting game or the forest or any of that. She is sneaky and stab-happy though. Aerilya: a dwarven druid. I've seen that done ONCE. Also she's a she. And she's an outcast from dwarven society, what with the whole "I want to see sunlight and sky and trees and birds" talk. Draxen Strior: a hobgoblin wizard. Wizards touch a rune in their spellbook or printed on a stone or whatever works, summons up power inherent in the rune, traces it in the air, speaks the name and any incantation, and lets it loose. They can do this repeatedly but only for a time; too much is like those loooong days in the office filling out forms all day - the mind just turns to liquid and you can't focus by the end. Got this idea from a picture my brother did of am hobgoblin in a robe with glasses and a newspaper, tending his garden. I just worked backwards. He won't be that far off old age, though. Reb Wartracker: a half-orc monk. Yeah. And not a snarling, drooling barbarian. Zekfryn Oussneld, a drow/dark elf barbarian - or an exiled sorcerer turned barbarian at one point for survival. Sorcerers can basically skip the spellcasting process and fire the spell off at the click of the fingers. But they are severely limited in how many they can actually 'fire' per day, because it has a toll on their bodies. This guy, more than four a day (and they should be spread out) will cause a nosebleed - if he's lucky. I'm thinking of having a pleasant, amiable dwarven bartender, because how many nice dwarves have you seen? Yeah. (probably a sign I need to read more?) I'm also thinking of an unpleasant elf because of the same reason. The Silver Crystal You can't have a fantasy without an Artefact of Doom! Well you can but fans who expect certain things might get uppity. Or they might rejoice in the originality. Could go either way, depends on the person. Ahem. Artefact. A crystal (or something, form isn't locked in) that can transform into a castle wherein time passes much slower than outside - a day outside = a year or so inside. What could you do inside that sped-up time zone? Probably a LOT. That's a whole year that you have, which others don't. You could train an army in that time, or build it if it's a mechanical one, or animate it if animation of inanimate objects/corpses is involved. That's something a bad-guy will definitely be doing. A monster could gestate. You could come up with some really well-thought-out plans in there. I'm wondering what else could be done. Something political I guess. Brainwashing. Healing. Art. Growing stuff, if you have what you need. Phew.
Giggle, yes, but I love the idea of a knight with a red jacket, so who cares. But I would say that you need to read some Discworld novels from Terry Pratchett and some M.Y.T.H. Inc. novels from Robert Asprin, because both will help you with what you are doing. Also, yes, there are people with copper-colored red hair, like on Doctor Who: Or my friend Steve who has more orangey but coppery red hair and his oldest sun, who has bright copper colored hair, like a penny.
Probably it isn't what you are thinking about at all, and I honestly have no idea regarding the question I'm about to ask, but has there been, in this D&D style, anything written in the Steam Punk vein? Your description of the monocled, velvet-clad gentleman-knight and a "city elf" made me wonder. I've read two novels in recent years (The Glass Books of the Dream Eaters, and sequel) which are more or less straight sf, maybe with a dash of fantasy to them but not of the non-human RPG sort. A pseudo-Victorian setting in which such things as orcs, drow, hobgoblins and the like have quietly persevered could be very interesting, to me at least (although more for the writing of it that the reading).
One of the most successful e-book writers of past couple of years has a D&D stripe a mile wide. Brian Pratt is his name, and he has overcome scads of nasty reviews to sell books by the hundreds of thousands. His first novel, The Unsuspecting Mage, is free at Smashwords.com, barnesandnoble.com, and many others. Have fun! It matters not where your ideas come from; it matters only how you use them. --WB
Just wondering if copper is a naturally-occurring hair colour. I originally had chestnut. Either's good. I haven't read much steampunk, so I don't know if I'm really qualified to write in the genre if I haven't read the genre. I have read a *diesel*punk trilogy though. I do know what steampunk *looks* like, that's all I need, right? Good to hear of D&D stuff that's successful. Of course my old favourite is R.A. Salvatore, although I have enjoyed some of the stuff by the guy who wrote about Diran Bastion, the assassin turned (good guy) priest, for the Eberron setting. I'd call him "the Drizzt of Eberron" though nowhere near the sheer status and longevity yet.
There's a ton of steampunk fantasy. Vampires are probably a little more popular in them, but other creatures pop up as well. I think Tor.com is doing a steampunk week right now if you want to look for titles.
All clichés can be made to work. You turn them into something more. Vampire? Yes, but a vampire that is dead at NIGHT and alive in the day. Or their skin is sparkly. Or they must suck tomatoes rather than people. Or (we must hope) something rather more interesting!
In my opinion, these characters will never come across as real, three-dimensional people because you're categorizing them as RPG classes. Druid, paladin, wizard etc. Don't know if you're going for a lighthearted story or something more realistic, but you may want to keep that in mind.
That means I'll have to work extra hard to make them 3d characters (which I'll be researching - a summary of what that means would help immensely, though). I am going for mostly 'light' style, but I do want realistic characters.
The thing to remember is that people are people, not character classes. Say for example you have a soldier. That's his job, he's in the army. He salutes his officers, stands at attention when he's told to, cleans his rifle and polishes his boots before parade, etc etc, because it's his job. When soldiers aren't being watched by an officer they'll goof off, play cards and drink beer the same as anyone else, they don't just stand to attention in the corner and wait to be told to do something. Obvious? Good. So you have a Wizard. He reads books, says wise wizardly things, strokes his beard, and casts spells, but he doesn't do it all the time. What else does he do? One wizard might breed dogs, another might paint pictures or carve woodcuts or be a raving alcoholic. He's a person first and a wizard second, same as anyone else. He might play a musical instrument, even though he isn't a bard. He might fence for exercise and enjoyment, although he isn't a fighter. He might be religious, but not be a cleric, or enjoy gardening or tapestry or any number of things. Very few people are 100 percent defined by their jobs, and those people that are tend to be far too dull for anyone to want to read about!
That's a good thing to keep in mind -- if you are doing the sort of story where it's something to keep in mind. Characters are not people. They are story people. Story people are developed only to the extent that we need them to be developed and want them to be developed for the story. Anything about them -- breeding dogs, polishing boots -- is only there because the author has a use for it and chooses to focus on it for usually multiple goals in the story. So one writer will spend a lot of time with a more minor character and another writer will not. An author writing a satiric story may be using broader strokes, hyped up dialogue and less subtle methods to reveal character and back story, concentrating mainly on character voice -- how they sound and appear. Another writer may be doing a story in which much of the action takes place within a character's head and we get enormous amounts of material about his past and feelings. One author may be using a great many symbols and building things around those symbols. Another author may be using direct action as his symbol and spend less time on imagery and setting details. That's why I'm always discouraging the idea of universal templates. The idea that characters have to have this and the plot has to do that only works for a story in which you need the characters to have this and the plot has to do that. For another writer doing a different type of story, it's useless. The author style is relevant. Some might call your style pulp, others classical, etc. -- doesn't matter. You are the engine of the story and the navigator. That's why your interests have to come first because if you can't do it, then the story doesn't go. Doesn't matter if that's someone else's view of the ideal story to have -- you have only your stories. You can develop skills, but your goals are no less relevant for you than different ones for another writer. Again, it does not matter what other authors are doing. Aping their style won't help you, neither will trying to write in exact opposite and the market takes all comers. So if the idea of having a wizard breed dogs or play a musical instrument seems utterly silly to you, don't do that. Maybe we don't have time with this story to know anything else about him except that he reads books and works magic. (Although he certainly doesn't have to have a beard and hundreds of wizard characters don't.) The character classes of D&D are useful because they are symbolic of various ideas about big esoteric things like the nature of war, evil, sacrifice, political power. If I say a character is lawful good, what we are talking about is how the character views the world, how that character analyzes the world and how that character makes decisions. It's not set in stone (unless you have a story need to have it magically or otherwise set in stone, to have the character be unyielding and dogmatic,) but it is an orientation about how the character will process what he or she is encountering and what may be most important to that character. That's not two dimensional. It's just a short-hand symbol that became more fun and flexible for the game than saying good guy, bad guy, Switzerland. Characters are not their trappings, but the meaning of those trappings. If a wizard plays a musical instrument, that means something not only about his character, but symbolically in the story. That musical instrument fulfills several purposes, not one. It represents things. The fact that you choose blue for a character's scarf instead of green represents something. That you have the character notice a crooked tree branch alongside the road -- symbol, emotion, interpretation. And all coming from you and how you see things. You'll get input from people, and you'll use it, but it will be your judgement on the words to use and in what order and what you focus on. So it doesn't matter that there is a D&D game that many people are very familiar with. It doesn't matter if you use ideas from that game -- which are not unique to that game -- or you don't. It's just a framework that Dan is using as a jumping off point. But the ideas, symbols and words will be Dan's. The characters can be called clerics and drow, or they could be called galoopas and chirrichangas. It's the concepts and symbols behind these mythological portrayals that is actually being worked in the way that works for that author for that story. That's why Dan's idea to "steer away from cliches" I find to be a rather fruitless pursuit, although it seems to be giving him ideas he enjoys. The idea of a cliche assumes that any object is being used the same way every time and that what the object is (the trappings,) is more important than what the object represents in the story. It assumes that the most important thing is how your story relates to other stories, mainly well known ones, even stories that are tonally completely different from your own, which is actually the least important thing, and again, mostly fruitless as a concept. It's not how your words and trappings compare to others' works; it's what they mean in yours. That's what readers will react to, and as we've said before, they'll react in many different ways. So what's interesting about a paladin with a sword cane, monocle and red coat is not that he has a sword cane, monocle and red coat. It's what they potentially represent in the story. A dwarf who is sober, genial and tends bar (and genial dwarfs, etc., have been done before,) is not interesting for being sober, genial and tending bar, or inherently better as a character than a drunken, surly dwarf who drinks at the bar. It's what he'll represent in the story -- anything from broad comic relief to inspiring and poignant tool of plot.
I understand what you mean, and I'm assuming you mean "if I use this term in my notes about the character to help me write about him/her". If I read "Varg was Lawful Good" in prose, I'm gonna throw the book across the room. Just saying.
Unless, I would hope, Varg also "plays at an old poker table in his mom's basement with Thrurl and Bobby (who still hasn't quite got into the swing of it)".
If I wrote Varg was Lawful Good, I'd get sued for trademark infringement from the D&D folk unless I'm doing a tie-in novel, and I don't remember them putting the character alignments into the tie-in novels either.
I only read the (first?) Dragonlance trilogy, way back in the day, but I'm sure they didn't. While labelling one's moral alignment is a useful tool for charting an RPG character's development, it would (as PeteMC says) be a disastrous mistep in a story, novel or otherwise. Readers want to learn for themselves if a character's inner life meshes or clashes with what the world sees them as, and blurting out "HE'S INHERENTLY GOOD" until "HE TURNED BAD JUST THEN" would be... well, come to think of it that's more or less what happens with the villains in Dan Brown's fiction, actually. I'm sure that's warning enough for us all.


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Hi Sarah,
Glad you found it easy and quick!
If you prefer, in most of my recipes you can omit the garlic since it is only really there for flavour.
Raw cream of celery soup recipes, similar to my other soup recipes (raw tomato soup and raw corn chowder) are so darn simple and a great add-on to a somewhat smaller raw vegan lunch or dinner.
I like this raw cream of celery soup recipe when I want something light and creamy at the same time. Raw soups actually make great snacks, too (especially once you get the hang of making them, you can throw them together super quick, like, 5 mins!)!
I can't really think of any major tips to give you. Just make sure that you blend this recipe up for a very long time so that it gets very blended and so that it warms up, as well. This raw cream of celery soup recipe makes enough for one big bowl or two very small appetizer cups.
Because celery can be stringy you'll definitely want to make sure that you use a high-speed blender for this raw celery soup concoction.
Cream of celery soup is close to my heart because apparently my mom ate nothing but cream of celery soup when she was pregnant with me!
Amounts per 207 g (7 oz) suggested serving
Name | Amount | % Daily |
Calories | 197 | 8 % |
Protein | 7 g | 12 % |
Fat | 15 g | 19 % |
Carbohydrates | 12 g | 4 % |
Dietary Fiber | 2 g | 6 % |
Sugars | 2.9 g | |
Calcium | 40 mg | 4 % |
Iron | 2.4 mg | 18 % |
Sodium | 1211 mg | 53 % |
Hi Sarah,
Glad you found it easy and quick!
If you prefer, in most of my recipes you can omit the garlic since it is only really there for flavour.
I've just made this for lunch. Very easy and quick to make (I like!) but I found it too garlicky for my taste (even though there was the tiniest smidge in there). Either my celery is not flavoursome (it is organic though) or my garlic is super-strong! Or, of course, it could be because I'm not a huge fan of garlic. Next time I'll try it without garlic.
Absolutely amazing! I didn't think anything could match your raw corn chowder recipe but I was wrong. I have two favorites now! I am so glad that I doubled the recipe. :)
Oh wow! Just lovely :-)
I have never been a celery fan but once I made this soup, that has changed. I loved it as did my husband. We were full after just one bowl. I have made it again since then. Thanks so much for this amazing recipe! Who'd have thought!
This soup was INCREDIBLE! I immediately wanted to make more, and my husband and I started talking about other similar soup combinations. I'm going to make your tomato soup next. Thank you so much for another amazing recipe!
I used soaked, then rinsed raw almonds today. Worked well. Great recipe!
I made this in my blendtec. I doubled all of the ingredients except the nuts and subbed walnuts for the cashews. It was a rich and delicious lunch. That amount made about. 2 cups of soup and was filling for me. Thank you!
I used to really dislike celery but as I get older I pretty much eat anything. Super delish as is, but one day I subbed the water for coconut milk and added nutritional yeast.... wow. It tasted like an amazing clam chowder minus the clams! I was pleasantly surprised.
Can y make this with food processor ?
Tried this cream of celery soup. Very delicious! I tripled the recipe to make it for dinner, and next time I'll use 1/2 a clove less of garlic. Loved it though!
This soup was excellent - I added 4 persian cucumbers to it as well. Was a nice combo.
This soup went well with a bit of Madras curry added and some diced sundried tomatoes sprinkled on top. I was amazed at not only how delicious it was, but so filling.
I must admit, I was skeptical, but this is amazing!!! I love this soup! Can't I just eat this all week?
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a. One who speaks as though they know what they're talking about...though they do not. b. a bullshitter.
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The most insulting word in the english dictionary.
I about shot John after he called me a jive turkey, but it turns out he really only called me a cock sucker.
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11. mars 2008
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21. november 2011
1. Someone who's full of shit, an idiot, or likes to run linux even though they can't make the sound work.
2. Turkey slow roasted in artificial jive flavoring.
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21. oktober 2003
Slang term for an individual who is prone to exaggerating the truth greatly or an outright liar. Used predominately in 1970's
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av Anonymous
19. oktober 2003
Detagatory word for a jerk, asshole, douchebag,a know it all but really they don't know shit.yhat person in your group of friends that no one likes to hang out with. A fuckin loser just the worst.
Douchebag. Jsckass asshole. Jerk.
Know it all but not really.
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Topic: Joe's on Carmine St. (Read 19901 times)
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Registered User
Posts: 62
Location: Mexico City
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #120 on:
July 14, 2013, 02:00:46 PM »
last pics
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #121 on:
July 19, 2013, 09:44:41 AM »
I believe I understood everything you said about the Coriat oven. It has BTUs to spare, would have to be modified with deflection (and an air gap) between the burners and stones, would need to have a baffle (which it may already have) and lastly, that I should find a way to install a 1 1/2 inch arched fire brick ceiling and rear chamber. A suggestion of my own (which Im obviously not sure of) would be to replace whatever second rate stones that surely come with the oven, with 2 inch thick Fibrament. Does that last bit sound about right?
That's pretty much right, except for the stone replacement. While this forum has seen some members get stones that are powdery from insufficient firing, there really aren't 'first rate' and 'second rate' stones. It's more 'stones that work in a particular setting' and 'stones that don't work.' I would wait and see what kind of stones you get before going with fibrament.
Im not sure how easy it would be to remove the lower deflector with the oven at that temperature, but Ill give it a shot. What would be the benefit of this? Something along the lines of heating up the UQTs a bit more right before/while baking as to achieve a browner undercrust?
The deflector drives more heat to the ceiling during the pre-heat, but, after the pre-heat, if you could remove it, you might be able to improve the between pie recovery, since the tiles will be in the direct line of fire and heat up quickly. It's not a big deal if you can't remove the deflector- just something to consider.
I spread sauce with the worlds most annoying spoon, Ill get a decent pizza sauce ladle as soon as I can, would you recommend a flat bottomed spoodle or a regular curved bottom ladle?
A spoodle:
Re; the last bake. Failures can be educational
The pre-heat numbers are especially encouraging. Next batch, add back the re-ball and let's see how it impacts manageability.
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #122 on:
July 19, 2013, 10:41:57 AM »
The oven
What I Like
All that stainless is sexy
I like the burner shape, number and distribution- very even
The baffles (while not really high enough) can be adjusted for top/bottom heat balance
Deflection is in the works
What I Don't Like
(but should be able to be resolved)
The channel formed by the baffle doesn't extend into the main oven chamber/up the side wall (this can be resolved with an insert)
I'm 99% certain that this oven has no insulation (based on the fact you can see through the holes in the back wall to the outside of the oven)
1" thick hearth (can be replaced with 2")
There's a metal strip sitting on the stones (see photo below). That strip doesn't sit on top of the stones when they're in place, right?
The Potential Dealbreaker
This oven has no central ceiling vent. The darn thing is like swiss cheese. I've never seen an oven like this. Why build an oven that lets all it's heat out? There's holes in the back wall, holes all over the inner ceiling and holes all over the outer ceiling as well. And, from what I can tell, no vent for a pipe to connect to. Based upon the position of all the vents, it seems like this might be meant to be used with a hood exhaust. A restaurant wouldn't want the heat and carbon dioxide feeding into their kitchen, would they?
As far as oven modding goes... I know the burner on this is great, but, generally speaking, I think swapping out a weak burner for a stronger one would be out of the question. I would never try it. Out of everything an oven manufacturer can do wrong, a weak burner is a dealbreaker. As far as this particular oven goes, homemade deflection shouldn't be a big deal. Insulating the oven yourself may not be too much trouble, but you might need access to a welder, depending on how the oven is put together. But sealing all the existing vents and adding a single central vent with an adapter for a pipe? Perhaps.
I'm definitely not ruling out the Coriat, but it seems like a bit of work. I would talk to them and find out the reasoning behind the swiss cheese approach.
Btw, if you go with a Coriat, you're definitely going with the larger model, right?
Also, I'm PMing you my email for the additional photos. The mirror finish on the stainless is making it difficult to make out a few things.
Last Edit: July 19, 2013, 10:44:41 AM by scott123
Registered User
Posts: 2
Location: Toluca, Mexico
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #123 on:
July 20, 2013, 05:21:35 PM »
Hello everyone, new active member here.
As I posted already on my introduction, I am from Mexico as well and this thread was what made me step in and share some of my experiences with my recently started
pizza business. (You can check out our fb page here:
I own the Coriat oven. At first, we were going to buy the larger model but at the end we opted for the small one to see how it performed and whatnot.
So, with some experience using this oven, I'll try and address some of the doubts about it as well as the modification I have planned for it.
First off, it is a good looking oven as Scott said before. We designed an open kitchen so we could display all the making process and it looks really great in there, I attached a pic of it as well. Second; yes, it does have some great and very well distributed burning power as the second attached image depicts.
As for the baffles: They are almost completely useless in my own opinion. While talking to the tech support team at Coriat, they tried and explained how is it that they work, however, I have used them in several different positions without changing the finished product much.
About the insulation, it does have pretty good insulation, as most of the heat that it leaves out is through the top air vents shown in pic no. 3 . Those are located only on one side of the oven, it also has a similar vent on the mid, back part.
The stones: They do come with those metal strips when packaged, however, after using it for about 2 weeks I realized there wasn't really a reason why they should be there
and came to the conclusion that they put them there only for shipping purposes and they actually belong to the sides, which makes way more sense as there is a slight gap that lets some heat escape through there. See pic 4 for correct position of metal strips.
My main problem with this oven is top browning; the stones do get really hot and because the ceiling is really high, the bottom usually gets burned if one waits until top is nicely browned. I have been addressing temporarily this problem by "doming" my pies for about one minute really close to the ceiling with the oven door ajar using a peel, which isn't very efficient as a lot of heat gets lost in the meanwhile.
I have in mind a modification, basically making a lower ceiling out of a metal structure holding some refractory (1 1/2) bricks I already have bought; that way it'll be a little more like the Marsal and Sons in pic no. 5.
I wanted to show a pic of my first pie today, showing the top lack of color with a perfectly cooked bottom, but for some odd reason the pie cooked evenly all the way through, top browned and everything, unlike the latter pies from today. You can check it out on the last 2 images attached.
Anyways, I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on the oven as I have already done personally with Paulo and can't wait to read your comments.
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #124 on:
July 20, 2013, 06:40:27 PM »
Luis, thanks for your informative post. That's fantastic that the forum now has a Coriat owner and Paulo can see this oven in action.
The brick ceiling is definitely a good idea, but, imo, it's fairly low on the heat balancing to do list. The baffles aren't making much of a difference for balance, because, presently, the baking chamber is leaking like a sieve- you can't really direct heat to the top of the pizza if the oven isn't trapping it. I am encouraged to see only two vents on the top, but, between the back and side walls, I count at least 3 more vents, totaling 5. That's 4 too many. A pizza oven, when the door is closed, should be a completely enclosed box with only one vent in the center top. Take a look at the photos below. The vent on the top can be round (marsal) or rectangular (blodgett), and sometimes you might find it on a corner, but it's always only one vent.
With the heat exiting the oven chamber in multiple directions, I don't see the brick ceiling helping much. If you want to take steps to resolve your heat balance issues, it's time to track down a good metal fabricator who can seal all the holes and add a vent in the top center. After sealing up the chamber and venting it correctly, then I'd add a steel plate and an air gap under the stone, and, then, if you still need a bit more top heat- then I'd start building a brick ceiling.
Thanks for clarifying the role of the metal strips.
Sharp looking place, btw. If it were me, I might bring the oven even closer to the customers, but, other than that, I like the overall aesthetic.
Btw, Toluca isn't that far from Mexico City. When Paulo opens shop, does this mean that you two will be competitors?
Registered User
Posts: 62
Location: Mexico City
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #125 on:
July 21, 2013, 03:27:52 AM »
Scott: I'll get you the zipfile with the pictures as well as images from last week's pizza trial on monday since I'm currently out of town and without access to my home computer and camera. But overall it's been my best trial yet, I'll also answer the topics you brought up in your last two posts. Even though Toluca is nearby it's still about 1 1/2 hours away from the neighborhood I'll be in. So there shouldn't be too much trouble with stepping on each other's toes but who knows, if all goes well we might get a nice Grimaldi's/Juliana's rivalry going hehe. It's nice to see other people taking interest in upping the current state of pizza in Mexico though, it was about time!
Luis: I'm glad you decided to start participating in the forum, only good things can come from more people working together.
The pictures of your first pie look great, great as in I've never seen a pizza with such a good looking crust ANYWHERE in Mexico. You mentioned you use a modified Lehmann dough formulation when we spoke, what does your fermentation process consist of? Is there anyway you could post more pictures of your pizzas: shot from straight above, side shots of slices so we can see the insides of the crust, a side shot with you holding up a slice so we can see how it flops and maybe a shot of an invidiual slice's undercrust? Pictures of your other pizzas (the ones without good top browning you mentioned) would also help.
Also, if possible could you get readings of the hearth surface center and edge right before and after you bake a pizza? Knowing how long you bake your pies for would also be great. Hmm, I seem to have morphed into Scott for this post haha.
I also agree that the place looks fantastic, nice clean look to it. I may just have to make a little road trip one of these saturdays and check it out for myself...
Registered User
Posts: 62
Location: Mexico City
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #126 on:
July 24, 2013, 03:55:14 AM »
Scott: Last week my brother was in town so I decided to look at my notes and repeat the dough formulation that had gotten the best reviews so far. I ended up repeating the exact same dough from Reply #77, that would be 64% hydration, 1% IDY (my CY had expired), 2% salt and 1% sugar. No oil. TF 0.08
The dough was a pleasure to work with, I was able to stretch it somewhat similar to how I saw in the videos you posted. I got my oven up to 620F after another 2 hour preheat and baked the first pie for 4:30. It came out a bit overbaked but other than that excellent. Great flavor, good crumb structure, very very good consistency and best of all: no crunchiness or leather-like chew (without being soft). The only two things that couldve improved were a little less time in the oven and rotation. I haven't found the right aluminum yet but will have the metal peel soon. The second two pies while also great tasting, suffered from the loss of heat after the first pie. Its amazing what a difference 30 degrees can make. The second and third pie baked for 4:30 minutes and were just barely done.
Even though my techinique is still way off and the pies dont look very professional, I at least feel like the taste and consistency is starting to come through. Im going to repeat the exact same dough formulation again, let my oven preheat for 2 hours 15 minutes and do a 4 minute bake for my first pie. I believe thats the time we were shooting for? Im excited to see what results come out of this, it had never occurred to me that maybe (keyword:maybe) what we were missing before was the higher temperature more than a radically different dough formula. Well see, and as usual I await instruction/correction if anything I just mentioned seems way off.
Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 03:59:17 AM by paulo.vllrr
Registered User
Posts: 62
Location: Mexico City
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #127 on:
July 24, 2013, 04:10:27 AM »
more pics
Registered User
Posts: 62
Location: Mexico City
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #128 on:
July 24, 2013, 04:17:34 AM »
For this weeks trial Ill move the deflector after my second pie and see how that helps the hearth temp recovery time for the third. I moved a few things which should make it possible to slip out quickly.
Ill get a spoodle on my next trip to NY, they dont sell them anywhere here (unless I steal one from a Dominos).
Ovens: After last weeks trial I feel that there is some good news and some bad news. The good news is that the lower chamber of my oven is only 30 degrees away from being the same maximum temperature as most professional deck ovens Ive seen. Ill be fiddling around with the probe next week but Im sure we can get it up to 650 eventually. My main concern with the professional oven was that I needed to get my dough 90% of the way there before showing off the product to potential investors and for my general peace of mind. I didnt think it was possible for a house oven (with no cleaning cycle and no broiler) to be able to reach 650 or something close enough, but what this gives me is the chance to get my dough almost there without shelling out the investment right now.
This definitely changes my perspective on the final oven. If I dont need to buy it until I have the actual space and full investment, I would probably feel better importing a Marsal, bad news is the much higher pricetag. The thing about the Coriat is that although it has some good upsides, you mention quite a few downsides that don't seem like there's any guarantees that they can be fixed, especially not by someone whose never done it before (referring to myself and welders). Ive spoken to a few welders and for the massive amount of work that would need to be done Im probably looking at around 6,500-7,000 dollars total for everything. Now, I know thats still much cheaper than the Marsal but what if I spend all that to end up with a less than perfect oven? Seems like a lot of money to use on an experiment, what do you think? I always consider your thoughts and opinions extremely important but for such a serious part of the business, even more so.
Ill ask them what on earth possessed them to cut holes ALL over their ovens, it makes no sense to me. And yes, if for some reason I end up getting the Coriat Ide get the larger oven.
Sauce Update: This weekend I made the best tomato sauce (for pasta) I've ever made by using fresh picked organic cherry tomatoes. The difference between the cherry tomato sauce I've made with canned Cirio (cherry) and these were as if I was using a completely different fruit. I've already found a few organic plum tomato producers right outside the city that deliver year round and will be going to see them in a few weeks. Meanwhile, this week's trial will feature my first ever 100% fresh plum tomato sauce. I really should stop questioning your recommendations, I invariably end up doing what you say anyway and my whole "should I do it?" process seems to work for nothing other than waste an awful lot of time
Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 04:27:06 AM by paulo.vllrr
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #129 on:
July 25, 2013, 08:08:21 AM »
I ended up repeating the exact same dough from Reply #77, that would be 64% hydration, 1% IDY (my CY had expired), 2% salt and 1% sugar. No oil. TF 0.08
After all my recommendations, that got the best reviews? Yeesh
I do think that oven temp is key, especially a higher balanced oven temp, but I think, with your elevation you're going to need more water. Your rim is looking pretty darn crispy on this last bake. It wasn't crispy?
You can go for a 2:15 pre-heat, but if you've been tracking your thermostat temp, you'll see that you're close to where it will cycle the oven off, so it might not buy you much more than what you're seeing now. If you want to go higher, then it's time, as you mentioned, to start playing around with your probe (don't worry, you won't go blind
You're going to be fine tuning for a while longer. Once you get the final pre-heat time/temp then I think you can dial in your formula a bit better.
Until you get a spoodle, get a set of these and use the 1 cup size to spread your sauce:
Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 08:12:48 AM by scott123
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #130 on:
July 25, 2013, 08:55:32 AM »
For this weeks trial Ill move the deflector after my second pie and see how that helps the hearth temp recovery time for the third. I moved a few things which should make it possible to slip out quickly.
If you can attach the deflector in such a way that it can be removed, I think that will work nicely.
I didnt think it was possible for a house oven (with no cleaning cycle and no broiler) to be able to reach 650 or something close enough, but what this gives me is the chance to get my dough almost there without shelling out the investment right now.
I haven't really talked about this much because you've been making such amazing strides modding your home oven, but I think there's a pretty good chance that, if you're able to get a Marsal (or mod an oven to be Marsal-ish) you'll see a slight bump in quality from your home oven pies. I do know, for certain that your 2nd, 3rd and 4th pie recovery issues will vanish.
The thing about the Coriat is that although it has some good upsides, you mention quite a few downsides that don't seem like there's any guarantees that they can be fixed, especially not by someone whose never done it before (referring to myself and welders). Ive spoken to a few welders and for the massive amount of work that would need to be done Im probably looking at around 6,500-7,000 dollars total for everything.
I think you may want to talk to different welders, or perhaps describe the work needing to be done a bit differently.
I have been thinking about this. You can buy fairly light gauge steel sheet, cut it with tin snips into rectangles and attach those with screws to cover the existing vents. You might be able to do it with stainless steel sheet, but I think steel might be easier to work with. Neither will break your bank for the quantity you'll need.
To extend the baffles you'll want to bend sheet metal into a u shape. A brake (sheet metal bending machine) would be ideal for this task. Maybe a high school metal shop would let you do some work there? Bribe them with pizza
If you can't bend the sheet metal in right angles, it might not be the end of the world to not have baffles running up the side walls.
The top center vent shouldn't be that expensive. The adapter for a pipe should be available for purchase. It might just be a matter of cutting a hole- perhaps with a sawzall. The oven, right now, doesn't vent to the outdoors, and it looks like Mexican fire inspectors are fine with that, so, if worse came to worse, you could just do a vent the way the manufacturer did and drill a bunch of holes. It's kind of ghetto, and definitely wouldn't pass code north of the border, but you might just drill the holes and pull pipe flush against the top of the ceiling with some wire. You might not even need the wire and you could just sit the pipe right on top.
The brick ceiling will most likely require some welding. I'm picturing angle iron welded into multiple u shaped frames that connect via cross pieces to suspend a few rows of firebrick just below the ceiling.
I would bring this topic up in the main forum and solicit some ideas. Jeff (shuboyje) is a metalworker and I'm sure he could come up with some workarounds. The DIY brick ceiling could definitely benefit from some group brainstorming, as metal ceiling ovens are quite common and many people could benefit from a reliable and cost effective approach. We had a member who was moving in the DIY brick ceiling direction (Buceriasdon), but he left the forum and passed away before having the chance to build one.
Meanwhile, this week's trial will feature my first ever 100% fresh plum tomato sauce. I really should stop questioning your recommendations, I invariably end up doing what you say anyway and my whole "should I do it?" process seems to work for nothing other than waste an awful lot of time
It doesn't hurt to try things out and come to your own conclusions. Besides, it doesn't happen much, but I have been known to be wrong
Seriously, though, if you go organic, be aware of your price points and potential margins.
Edit: After thinking about it for a couple minutes, I'd start a thread just for help figuring out the best way to do a brick ceiling and then another thread for all the other mods you're considering.
Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 09:02:17 AM by scott123
Registered User
Posts: 62
Location: Mexico City
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #131 on:
July 25, 2013, 05:33:31 PM »
Haha I think I described my last trial the wrong way. That dough got the best reviews but Im sure it has a LOT to do with the oven temp. I had only done one trial before that that reached 620F, and that went horribly, horribly wrong. Im positive that once I start incorporating higher hydration, higher sugar, adding oil AND then baking it at a decent temperature without crushing/incinerating the pie mid-bake its going to blow todays and last weeks crust out of the park.
The other thing I messed up was saying that my first crust was not crispy (although not as crunchy as others), but I credited that to the overbake. Thats an assumption though, it could turn out crispy again today with a 4 minute bake. Unfortunately I only have one pie each week that really counts so well see what happens. The second and third pies last week were not crispy, but they were also at a lower temperature, cooked longer and werent nearly as well browned. Let me see how hot the oven gets today, how the first crust comes out, what happens when I remove the deflector and after that well make the relevant adjustments for next week, including the probe.
I know exactly where to get those measuring cups for sauce spreading.
Im saving all of your recommendations on the oven modding in one specific file. I want to talk to a few other people who could do the mods and get their opinions buy showing them specific specs of what needs to be done. I have access to machinery for bending sheet metal, so that wouldnt be a problem.
The best way to describe Mexican fire inspectors would be laid back haha. Just like many other things down here, restaurant regulations are very loose and as long as youre not building a bonfire on top of people tables, you can do/not do whatever you want. Nobody cares and the only reason you ever get inspected is if somebody wants a payoff, which usually isnt even a substantial amount of money. Your third world country top center vent mod sounds good enough to me.
Ill take your advice on starting threads concerning oven mods if I decide to take that route. If I can get people like Jeff to help out that would certainly save time. Nevertheless, I want to give my home oven another several weeks to see how far we can take it. If the pies start coming out at a level I feel comfortable presenting to investors and can get the funding needed: Im going for the gold and am getting a Marsal down here. I already have several people - that I know for a fact are well funded and that invest in restaurants who appear to be very interested just from trying some of the other few items thatll be on the menu like the meatballs and ice cream. Let me see what kind of reaction I get from my home oven pies once their ready.
I hope you arent taking any of this as a that sounds like an awful lot of work excuse. That would be offensive and is in no way what Im thinking, but at the same time I dont feel comfortable with spending that much money on an experiment just yet. And lastly, I would hate to waste other peoples time on the forum with their insight and ideas for me to end up buying another perfectly made oven and getting it shipped down here.
Sauce: The organic tomatoes arent something I specifically looked for, but friends who have helped me out got me contacts who just so happened to sell organic. If using fresh tomatoes is what I decide to do, Im definitely comparing with regular non-organic plum tomatoes before making any choices.
Registered User
Posts: 62
Location: Mexico City
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #132 on:
July 29, 2013, 07:40:12 PM »
Disaster, once again reared it's ugly head last thursday
14 inch pies on my hearth (which cannot be made larger) if not launched perfectly create an incinerated mess that render the oven useless. That was what happened with my first pie, so theres no relevant info. This is the third time a pizza trial is wasted, so Im switching back to 12 inch pizzas until I get a bigger hearth to work with.
The fresh plum tomato sauce I made with wal-mart bought produce tasted better than any pizza sauce Ive ever made before. I guess theres no way to beat freshness with a canned product, even if the tomatoes arent grown in volcanic Italian soil.
With a 2 hour 30 minute preheat the the highest I got the temperature on the hearth was 626F, and I dont think it´s getting any higher. The thermostat got up to 488.
The fiberglass pipe insulation exists but not without the binders, and the loose fill blown-in I couldnt find. Some people told me it doesnt exist in Mexico since nobody here insulates buildings (everythings cement). I can look for something else or try to get it shipped down here but first I have a few questions:
Even after the 2 and a half hour preheat, my thermostat was still not hitting 500F and therefore not cycling off the burner. The last few trials (1:45, 2:00) the oven has stayed on for about an hour after the preheat, and again, hasnt cycled the burners down one bit. I know this oven very, very well since its where I started my baked good business a few years ago, so I can be sure that at NO point is the burner getting shut off or not running on full juice during these tests.
My question is: if the bottom chamber even after all that time preheating is not getting past 626F and my burner is at no point slowing down, how would insulating the probe help? If I understood correctly, the point of insulating the probe is to trick it into thinking the oven is much cooler than it actually is so it wont shut off the burners. But if my burners are not shutting off with the current setup, and the lower chamber has reached its peak temperature, what would be the point of insulating the probe?
I had a couple of ideas I wanted to run by you. First, is there anyway I could retain heat even better in the lower chamber by making the tile ceiling thicker (maybe 3-4 layers instead of 2) or possibly making the ½ inch gap a ¼ inch gap, so as to let even less hot air pass through?
My other idea is a little crazier. How about if I buy a larger home oven and replace the existing dinky burners with a more powerful BTU? I have a theory that whats really complicating hitting that 650F temp (and then losing so much after each pie) is the fact that my burner just isnt powerful enough. I could leave this oven outside with a metal roof or something and play with it without having to worry about my kitchen going up in flames. Besides the UQT, black tile and deflector mods we could get rid of the thermostat altogether and put in a juicier burner. An added bonus is I could make larger pies without the risk of smoking up the entire block.
The larger home oven even with all the mods is an investment, but not a 6-7 thousand dollar experiment. I have a friend who gets a huge discount at an already discount home appliance store, so I could get the whole thing up and running for a few hundred dollars (maybe). What do you think?
I really wanted to do two trials this week to make up for lost time, but my schedule doesnt allow it. Even though the one massacred pizza that came out last week was overbaked and well, ridiculous, the crust still tasted very good. Tons of flavor. Sorry if Im being stubborn here but Im really curious about seeing how that dough formulation turns out without any incidents or overbaking. Next week Ill get back to modifying with a higher hydration and oil, if you believe its necessary.
Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 07:49:16 PM by paulo.vllrr
Registered User
Posts: 62
Location: Mexico City
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #133 on:
August 06, 2013, 06:40:17 PM »
Last week's trial was a big success. Dough formulation was 64 hydration, 2 salt, 1 CY, 1 sugar and a 0.08TF. No reball, this pie was baked 4 minutes flat and was not under/overbaked, just right. Great flavor in the crust but it was a little leathery and chewy. It had a crisp crust, I wouldn't go as far as saying crunchy but definitely more crisp than I would've liked. I'm starting to get the hang of stretching the dough, this one was very easy to work with and looked similar to one of the dough balls in the video while I stretched it. No problem with the 12 inches on the hearth, fits perfectly. I can now confirm that a higher hydration and posible higher sugar/oil would help the texture and browning. What would you recommend for my next formulation?
Registered User
Posts: 62
Location: Mexico City
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #134 on:
August 06, 2013, 06:47:13 PM »
Lifetime Member
Global Moderator
Posts: 23098
Location: Texas
Always learning
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #135 on:
August 06, 2013, 06:49:15 PM »
You didn't indicate that you used any oil for the last dough. Was that an oversight or did you actually omit the oil?
Registered User
Posts: 25
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #136 on:
August 14, 2013, 03:25:48 PM »
Newbie question here, but the variation in crust texture makes me ask
Quote from: scott123 on July 08, 2013, 08:24:14 AM
In this video the woman makes a big point of the top and bottom of the dough ball...does it make a big difference, or can you place it either side up/down?
Registered User
Posts: 62
Location: Mexico City
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #137 on:
August 14, 2013, 05:12:02 PM »
It was on purpose, this dough formulation was made without oil because out of all my trials so far this is the one that has gotten the best reviews. I wanted to try it out with my newly possible 625F temperature and see what happened. This doesn't in any way mean that I won't be using oil, when I have time for my next trial I'm guessing that Scott's going to recommend adding it back in. I haven't done any trials since because I've been completely engulfed by a new expansion in my baked goods business but hopefully I'll be back doing trials in a few weeks time. No matter how bright the future is in the baked goods business, pizza is still the top priority in the long run
I also have the same question as edgeco1!
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Location: Texas
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Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #138 on:
August 14, 2013, 05:41:11 PM »
Quote from: paulo.vllrr on August 14, 2013, 05:12:02 PM
I also have the same question as edgeco1!
That is a question that comes up from time to time. For the most recent discussion on this topic, see the thread at
. As you can see there, there is a diversity of opinion.
Registered User
Posts: 15072
Location: Houston, TX
Re: Joe's on Carmine St.
Reply #139 on:
August 14, 2013, 06:31:11 PM »
An opened dough ball has a top and a bottom. It is the little details that elevate good to great.
Pizza is not bread.
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Hello All. I booked my hotel and tickets for the end of August 2013. Staying at the Port Orleans- FQ. I have two boys ages 2 and 6. Looking for recommendations on things to do and dinning reservations. I am also interested in the characters dining. Also when making reservations: should I do it online or should I call. Any suggestions and recommendations are much appreciated. Thank you. Excited Mommy of two boys
HI and welcome! We pretty much only go in August; we're both teachers. (Actually, my husband sometimes gets to chaperone the Senior Trip in May, the rat.) I love August in Disney. The days are long and steamy, the parks are open forever, it's a total delight. Hit the Fairy Godmailer list http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2440121 and have someone send your boys a welcoming postcard from their favorite characters. Then sign up to do the same for someone else in August. It's a lot of fun, and the magic begins when that postcard arrives. Some assorted pointers: - plan to be at the parks about half an hour before they open-- that opening is known as "rope drop." You'll find you can get more done in that first hour than in an entire afternoon. - each day at lunchtime, we leave the parks and head back to the resort for a swim. I've never been to POFQ-- my family is too big-- but it looks lovely. Give up the time for that afternoon swim; I can promise it will help avoid the mid afternoon meltdowns. You and the kids will return for the evening happy and refreshed. - as far as dining goes: your 180 day mark for making reservations (ADRs) is coming up in the next few weeks. Are you on the dining plan? We love it, and it tends to be a better value for families like yours with kids under 10. Here are some you may want to look into: * Chef Mickey's. (In the Contemporary, easy to reach from the Magic Kingdom.)We always do that the first evening. Mickey, Minnie, Donald, Daisy, Pluto and Goofy all stop by for photos and autographs. Make sure you have autograph books-- maybe the Easter Bunny will want to look at www.laughingplacestore.com ? * In Hollywood Studios: take a look at Sci Fi Diner. You sit in a model car, as though you're at the drive-in. Clips of funny sci-fi movies play-- nothing scary. (THink Woody Woodpecker in space, the Blob as people run screaming-- absolutely not scary.) The shakes are great. * In Animal Kingdom, we like to do a lunch ADR at Yak and Yetti. It's a cool place to refresh at AK-- the hottest place on the planet in August. * Epcot has so many choices!! One we enjoy is the Coral Reef. One entire wall of the restaurant is a fish tank; you sit and watch the fisth (and an occasional scuba diver) swim by. The food gets mixed reviews, but we've never had a bad meal there. * Take a look at our new favorite, the Cape May Cafe clam bake. It's at the Beach Club, a 2-3 minute walk from International Gateway in Epcot. Sorry, most of our character meals tend to be princess oriented. Another thing you'll want the Easter Bunny to look into: MistyMate personal misters. You can get them at amazon.com. They're the size of an electric toothbrush, and have no batteries. But you can pump a cool mist onto hot sweaty kids, and then refill at any waterfountain or rest room. I wouldn't go in August without them. Consider having bottled water and park snacks delivered to your resort. Take a look at either www.gardengrocer.com or www.wegoshopping.com Both will deliver to the resorts, and have great reputations. You don't want to pay for water in the parks, or waste your snack credits on a $3 bottle of water. Learn to use Fastpass, and enter each park with a good idea of what you want to accomplish. You can either have a strict touring plan or a loose idea, but don't plan to stand there asking the boys what they want to do next. We tend to enter the parks, and I get the park tickets and separate from the rest. I go ahead to get our first set of fastpasses and meet them at the first thing we'll be riding. Then we do a ride or two, then use that fastpass. Then I get the next fastpass and we repeat the process. I burn off a few extra calories, and we get to see a whole lot more without waiting on lines. There are lines that will stretch upwards of 2 hours; In our past 2 trips our longest line was 15 minutes due to good planning. Hit either the dollar store or Walmart and stock up on disposable ponchos. It's not unheard of to get rain every afternoon in August. No big deal; pull out a poncho and keep going. You know you'll need a stroller for your 2 year old, but I can promise that there will be times when your older son will want a ride as well. It's OK--this is not real life, this is Disney World. He'll be walking something like 8 or 10 miles a day. Don't forget an extra poncho or two-- maybe a bright color-- for the stroller. And consider tying a bright bandanna to the handle, to make it easy to find in the sea of strollers. OK, gotta get ready for school. ENjoy the planning!
WELCOME! You will have great time. Here's another vote for Chef Mickey!!! We did our first family trip in October. My kids were 8 and 3 1/2 and we did a lot of character dining so we wouldn't have to wait in the line to meet them at the parks. Chef Mickey's was by far their favorite place. We are going back again this coming October and that's one of the things on the top of their list to do! Have a great time!
You will have a wonderful time! We have been going in August for years and love it but it will be hot! Just curious if you looked into the pirate rooms. Your boys are a great age for it!
Your family will have a blast! I agree with the idea of an afternoon hotel/swim break. It will help a lot. We always go in August. Plan on a 20 minute rain shower sometime around 3:00-4:00. I have done reservations online and by phone and didn't prefer one over the other. I usually do online. Make them soon for your choice of times. Chef Mickey's is a great dining experience. You will also like Crystal Palace at MK if your boys like Winnie the Pooh and friends! The food there is better than Chef Mickey's too. Have a great time planning! It helps us get through the winter!
I did our reservations online (since I get most of my screen time after the kids go to bed ), and usually get a response by the next morning!


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I want you to connect to my personal computer and order my files (self.talesfromtechsupport)
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