text:
General discussion of future public test |
General discussion of future public test |
Dec 21 2011, 16:28
Group: Members Posts: 1618 Joined: 3-January 05 From: ARG/RUS Member No.: 18803 |
Now when its sure that Apple encoder represents AAC standard very well the next step will be a public multiformat test. No particular date or plan. Its a general discussion with the purpose to hear the opinions, points of view, suggestions. Items to talk about (these numbers are first approximations): 1.The number of codecs: 4+low anchor. 4 is affordable number for one test. 2.The selection of codecs (basing on curret previous votes): http://listening-test.blogspot.com/2011/06...reparation.html Apple LC-AAC - the most optimal AAC encoder. (Well, though FhG was quite good too). MP3 LAME 10 votes Vorbis AoTuV 8.5 votes. Opus/CELT 6 votes. (still no info when there will be Opus 1.0) Its possible to change your votes. (?) USAC (working name of future AACs successor ). No information about future availability of it. (?) low anchor (?) Settings, versions, etc. 3. Bitrate: VBR 96 kbps. The last AAC public test was at 96 kbps (well, it was actually 100 kbps). Also I think it will be more interesting to compare MP3 128-135 kbps and AAC/AoTuV 96-100 kbps. Probably a lot of people are interesting to trade off between compability/compression efficiency 4. Samples. Last time we have applied the technic of random selection of the samples. 20 samples. The developers are very welcome to participate in this topic. This test should be more interesting as it will include interesting (for use) codecs. -------------------- http://listening-test.coresv.net/results.htm
Dec 22 2011, 16:45
Group: Members Posts: 479 Joined: 4-October 08 From: Ukraine Member No.: 59301 |
QUOTE Its possible to change your votes. I propose to make up a big list of condidate-encoders and carry out another one poll. |
Dec 22 2011, 17:03
Group: Members Posts: 1618 Joined: 3-January 05 From: ARG/RUS Member No.: 18803 |
Guys, propose the codecs you are interested in. Feel free to enter irc chat room on http://webchat.freenode.net/ type /join #Hydrogenaudio Anyway it's a general discussion without particular date. Average talk, suggestions and opinions. This post has been edited by IgorC: Dec 22 2011, 17:13 -------------------- http://listening-test.coresv.net/results.htm
Dec 22 2011, 20:17
Group: Members Posts: 1618 Joined: 3-January 05 From: ARG/RUS Member No.: 18803 |
There is a first issue if MP3 will be tested at 96 kbps. MP3 has a sample rate 32 kHz at 96 kbps while AAC, AotuV, Opus - 44.1 kHz.
Sampling issue. Possible solutions are resampler or higher bitrate for MP3. -------------------- http://listening-test.coresv.net/results.htm
Dec 22 2011, 20:37
Group: Developer Posts: 3615 Joined: 2-December 07 Member No.: 49183 |
8.5 votes?
then: +1 for AAC +1 for Vorbis +0.5 for MP3 +0.5 for WMA standard (who knows, maybe it isn't very bad...) IMHO mp3@96kbps cannot compete with aac/vorbis@96kbps. 112 or 128 kbps MP3 is more interesting. |
Dec 22 2011, 21:10
Group: Super Moderator Posts: 1225 Joined: 12-March 05 From: Kiel, Germany Member No.: 20561 |
I'd like to see how Opus will perform here, so:
+1 for Opus +1 for Vorbis +1 for QT AAC +0.5 WMA +0.5 MP3@96 -------------------- It's only audiophile if it's inconvenient.
Dec 22 2011, 21:44
Group: Developer Posts: 200 Joined: 8-July 03 Member No.: 7653 |
There is a first issue if MP3 will be tested at 96 kbps. MP3 has a sample rate 32 kHz at 96 kbps while AAC, AotuV, Opus - 44.1 kHz. Sampling issue. Possible solutions are resampler or higher bitrate for MP3. I'm really not a fan of testing with multiple things unequal. The reason for this is that the results lose their meaning and mean whatever the reader wants them to mean... or at least only one side is meaningful. If AAC with 96 beats MP3 at 128, thats potentially interesting but if they tie or MP3 wins then "of course, it's running at a higher rate, what did you expect?". Of course, this is also true if the rate changes the bandpass "It wasn't really better, people just preferred the other lowpass setting". Bitrate cures a lot of sins too. A little extra rate can be the difference between transparency and not transparency. What I would recommend is that the rates for the samples under test be run as close as possible to equal so long as there is still a good chance of any of them being a winner or loser. E.g. if we think mp3 will very likely lose if run at 96k, then we should use a higher rate but only enough to correct that. If we run it at 192 and find that it does best, we'll have learned nothing from that effort. |
Dec 22 2011, 22:34
lossyWAV Developer Group: Developer Posts: 1828 Joined: 11-April 07 From: Wherever here is Member No.: 42400 |
Possible solutions are resampler or higher bitrate for MP3. Another solution would be to match bitrates as has been mentioned. We *know* that the samplerate will be different - however those rating the files will rate the files as they hear them without forewarning as to the samplerate of the individual file. Of course, it could be an obvious difference.... -------------------- lossyWAV -q X -a 4 --feedback 4| FLAC -8 -b 512 ~= 320kbps
Dec 23 2011, 14:16
Group: Members Posts: 1618 Joined: 3-January 05 From: ARG/RUS Member No.: 18803 |
Not all cards support automatic switching between sample rates. For example my E-MU Pre Tracker doesn't. And some onboard cards have a distortion when you switch between sample rate. For example my onboard soundcard (ALC272). It's easy to see with udial.wav sample.
This post has been edited by IgorC: Dec 23 2011, 14:24 -------------------- http://listening-test.coresv.net/results.htm
Dec 23 2011, 16:37
Group: Members Posts: 2453 Joined: 9-October 05 From: Dormagen, Germany Member No.: 25015 |
The fact that Lame resamples to 32 kHz at 96 kbps shouldn't worry too much IMO. Maybe the lack of HF is easily noticeable, but at 96 kbps there is worse to be frightened of for mp3. Lacking the extreme frequency range doesn't really hurt much though it's often audible.
Whether it's useful that mp3 participates in a 96 kbps test is a question of sample selection. With problem samples, especially pre-echo stuff, mp3 won't have a chance, and participance of mp3 doesn't make sense. So if mp3 should participate we'd better use only regular music, best chosen by chance. On the other hand I wouldn't mind if we forget about mp3 at 96 kbps. It's really no candidate for the winner here. This post has been edited by halb27: Dec 23 2011, 16:39 -------------------- lame3100m -V1 --insane-factor 0.75
Dec 23 2011, 17:24
Group: Developer Posts: 607 Joined: 22-November 10 From: Japan Member No.: 85902 |
The fact that Lame resamples to 32 kHz at 96 kbps shouldn't worry too much IMO. Maybe the lack of HF is easily noticeable, but at 96 kbps there is worse to be frightened of for mp3. QuickTime at CVBR96k surely doesn't do sample rate conversion by default, but LPF at 15k-16k or so is applied anyway. AFAIK FhG @ VBR q3 do the same. In other words, "losing highs" is neither specific to LAME nor important. As for QuickTime true VBR mode, sample rate conversion to 32k is done at quality 54 by default. Therefore, when the test is done at quality 54, the decision must be made also for QuickTime, whether to use sample rate conversion or not. This post has been edited by nu774: Dec 23 2011, 17:55 |
Dec 24 2011, 00:53
Group: Members Posts: 1618 Joined: 3-January 05 From: ARG/RUS Member No.: 18803 |
Also this time I will be glad to be just a listener and will still help as I can.
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=770903 Seriously. -------------------- http://listening-test.coresv.net/results.htm
Dec 25 2011, 18:18
Group: Members Posts: 1618 Joined: 3-January 05 From: ARG/RUS Member No.: 18803 |
Some feedback was received on #Hydrogenaudio and I would like to bring some information and answers basing my opinion on past public tests.
1. Can we go for higher bitrate (>96 kbps)? There were 531 results for 64 kbps test and only 280 results for 96 kbps AAC test while it was open during more time. 280 results were just fairly enough to close the test. 64 kbps test has continued during 20 days, 96 kbps – 35 days (hence more difficult). It's not recomended to keep the test open for more than one month or so. So it's hard to imagine a public test at higher bitrate. 2.a) Will be it more reasonable don't discard all results of a listener who submit more invalid results that it's allowed by rules? Keep "good" results and discard only erroneous results? First of all it worth to mention that this question isn't new. The problem is that it's impossible to know if it was a really "good" result or it was a "lucky guess". So it's not accepting the "good" results and discarding the "bad" results but rather accepting "lucky guessing" results (which is still invalid one) and discarding "not lucky guessing". Answer: it's more correct to discard all results of the listener who has past the limit of the invalid results (submit too much of them). Also see (1º) 2b) One would say then we can check if the results of this one particular listener correlates enough well with the results of other listener then it's ok to accept ¨only good results ¨. The problem that later developers and memebers will complain why the rules weren't applied homogeneously (to all listeners in the same manner). Then the simple and effective decesion was made: The rules were _strictly_ applied (as of previous public tests 64 amd 96 kbps). No context. You follow the rules – your results are in. If not – then no but you can start from zero. Simply as that. Also my observation about placebo effect and the interpretation of the results during the public listening test. The score 4.0 means "perceptible but not annoying". And how should the results of the last AAC test be interpreted in case of 4.1 4.2 4.3 etc...? 2-3 steps (0.2-0.3) is considering like a "very few ones" (in general interpretation. It's psychology so I won't opine here ). But more than 2-3 steps aren´t "very few" . So one could say that 4.2-4.3 is a limit score where the high quality begins. I don´t know if it´s coincidence but this score (4.2-4.3) is also where placebo effect starts to reveal itself more. (º1) Another interesting observation is that placebo leads to lower score than normal. There were quite enough results where the listener has put lower score if it was actually placebo. It leads to "flipped results" . It means if average results were Codec A > B > C > D then flipped ones (with placebo effect) will be D>C>B>A. (oh lord, my english ) Speaking of this test we can go for both MP3 96 and 128 kbps. It's a period to throw the ideas. This post has been edited by IgorC: Dec 25 2011, 18:28 -------------------- http://listening-test.coresv.net/results.htm
Dec 26 2011, 02:33
Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 28-July 03 From: England, UK Member No.: 8031 |
+1 Vorbis (Aotuv b603?) +1 LAME 3.99 +0.5 Opus |
Dec 26 2011, 12:43
Group: Members Posts: 964 Joined: 15-December 01 From: Germany Member No.: 662 |
+1 for keeping the number of codecs small. Consider only three perhaps? Four is stretching it. I really struggled with the five in the last test (AAC @ ~96 kbps [July 2011]).
+1 for using a low anchor which doesn't fall so far behind in quality (like in the last test). It was an understandable choice back then, but I think it's quality was so low, that it didn't help to put things into perspective. (edit: never mind the next part, quality is probably too good to serve as a low anchor even at the lowest setting) How about using lossywav at rather extreme settings? Though I'm not sure if it is a good idea if the low anchor has completely different types of artifacts. This post has been edited by Gecko: Dec 26 2011, 13:14 |
Dec 26 2011, 14:10
Group: Members Posts: 1618 Joined: 3-January 05 From: ARG/RUS Member No.: 18803 |
Very low quality low anchor permits to analyse the results very fast.There were listeners who couldn't identify the low anchor in last test. Pretty strange.
So it isn't that bad to have bad low anchor but, yes, I agree that low anchor should have a little bit more quality. This post has been edited by IgorC: Dec 26 2011, 14:12 -------------------- http://listening-test.coresv.net/results.htm
Mar 2 2012, 10:44
FAAC developer Group: Developer Posts: 32 Joined: 8-July 03 Member No.: 7654 |
How about FAAC, I think it could be good as anchor. Actually it may be a bit too good as low anchor but who knows?
I would be interesting to see how it performs against LAME and Vorbis. As to mp3 bitrate I think there is no point to encode mp3 below 128k so LAME@130 vs AAC/Vorbis@96 seems reasonable to me. |
Mar 2 2012, 12:41
Group: Super Moderator Posts: 1225 Joined: 12-March 05 From: Kiel, Germany Member No.: 20561 |
Any chance to see Musepack competing against current encoders? Has been a while since it has been tested. Though it probably didn't change much regarding performance, I think it should be tested at lower bitrates than before, too.
-------------------- It's only audiophile if it's inconvenient.
Mar 3 2012, 08:06
Group: Members Posts: 150 Joined: 21-May 05 Member No.: 22191 |
USAC has been "released" with the confusing name "Extended HE-AAC." As one might guess from the new name, I don't think USAC is intended to replace AAC (LC or main profile) at higher bitrates; things I've read have seemed to imply that USAC (or at least its sweet spot) is supposed to top out at 64kbps.
Once somebody can get their paws on a USAC encoder I really think we should do another 48kbps (or possibly as low as 32kbps) test; I'd imagine HE-AAC encoders have come a long way in the >5 years since the last 48kbps test, and of course Opus is an important addition. Perhaps that could be the next one after the 96kbps test? Go ahead and include Opus without waiting for a 1.0 release. The 1.0 release will likely include few changes; the reason it's long in coming has more to do with the drawn-out formalities of standard bodies than with the technical readiness of the format. Vorbis too, partially because of its use for html5 audio. I strongly feel that an MP3 encoder at the target bitrate should be included whenever possible, even when the target bitrate means we're confident it will be blown out of the water by the competition. My main reason is that this makes the test results more accessible to a wider audience; people are familiar with MP3 and having it as a point of comparison helps them have a better perspective on what the results mean. It's also simply interesting to see the progress made both in newer formats and in MP3 encoders. It'd be nice to include higher-bitrate MP3 as well; the space-compatibility tradeoff is real, and while "96kbps AAC=128kbps mp3" is probably roughly accurate, it's odd that a claim that's been made so frequently doesn't seem to have been definitively put to the test. Note that Sebastian's test of MP3 encoders at 128kbps 3 1/2 years ago ended with "The quality at 128 kbps is very good and MP3 encoders improved a lot since the last test. This was the last test conducted by me at this bitrate. It's time to move to bitrates like 96 kbps or 80 kbps." Anybody who thinks that MP3 should only be tested at 128kbps or above needs a reality check; if we test at a bitrate where a significant number of codecs are practically transparent then testing is very difficult for the participants and in the end we get no worthwhile results. As far as the LAME sample rate thing goes, I'd say we want to provide encoders the latitude to make any decisions they want to as they try to optimize audio quality. The only real reason to worry about LAME resampling the audio is questions of how people's sound cards may deal with the difference-- so just use a high-quality resampler to make all the encoders' decoded samples the same sample rate. |
Mar 3 2012, 09:50
FAAC developer Group: Developer Posts: 32 Joined: 8-July 03 Member No.: 7654 |
QUOTE Anybody who thinks that MP3 should only be tested at 128kbps or above needs a reality check. We can use LAME@96k as a low anchor then. It should be good enough not to flatten results of the other encoders. It could be a reality check to people who think mp3@96 can compete with vorbis/aac@96k. This post has been edited by knik: Mar 3 2012, 10:01 |
Mar 7 2012, 22:03
Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 4-November 11 Member No.: 94959 |
+1 Apple LC-AAC
+1 MP3 LAME @ 128-135 kbps +1 Vorbis AoTuV +1 Opus/CELT -------------------- I feel music enriches the soul.
Aug 9 2012, 14:14
Group: Members Posts: 177 Joined: 28-October 11 Member No.: 94764 |
I think it would be a good idea to make another AAC listening at first (Maybe just QT vs. FhG) since the development of the Winamp encoder has been quite active.
Aug 9 2012, 16:09
Server Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4888 Joined: 24-September 01 Member No.: 13 |
I think it would be a good idea to make another AAC listening at first (Maybe just QT vs. FhG) since the development of the Winamp encoder has been quite active. Comparison of the commercial codec to the free one that was open sourced (bought by Google) would also be interesting. Ideally I'd like to see, somewhere in the 48-96kbps range: Vorbis, FhG, FhG-free, Apple AAC, LAME (if 96kbps), Opus and USAC. Though it's likely too early for USAC. |
Aug 10 2012, 04:09
Group: Members Posts: 150 Joined: 21-May 05 Member No.: 22191 |
Ideally I'd like to see, somewhere in the 48-96kbps range: Vorbis, FhG, FhG-free, Apple AAC, LAME (if 96kbps), Opus and USAC. Though it's likely too early for USAC. That's quite a lot to expect from one test. How many people would rate all 140 samples? Keep in mind that there will be extra listener fatigue from trying to distinguish between encodes which are pretty transparent, especially for those of us without stellar golden ears. A 96kbps test is going to be considerably harder on people than a 64kbps test, and even in that test, which only had five encoders, only ten people submitted results for all samples. FhG lost the public AAC 96kbps test to Apple last year by a statistically significant margin. Yes, it's been updated in the meantime and may be competitive with Apple's encoder at 96kbps now, and maybe it's noticeably better than Apple's for HE-AAC and <80kbps bitrates, but I don't think it's an important enough reference point at 96kbps to justify its inclusion at this stage. Not only is it too early for USAC (no quality stereo encoder publicly available yet), but everything I see supports the idea that it's not really targeted at this bitrate anyway. Let's just be sure to plan on another lower-bitrate test in the near future -probably 64kbps again, though I'd like to see one at ~48kbps too- to look at updated HE-AAC encoders, improvement in opus since the last test at that bitrate, and USAC. |
Aug 16 2012, 14:48
Group: Members Posts: 1618 Joined: 3-January 05 From: ARG/RUS Member No.: 18803 |
I think it would be a good idea to make another AAC listening at first (Maybe just QT vs. FhG) since the development of the Winamp encoder has been quite active. If there was a chance that any other encoder already performs as good or better than Apple AAC at 96 kbps there would be a lod of people talking about that (me too). It's not the case. We have dedicated a complete test to AAC format last time. if I will conduct the next public test it will be multiformat (96 kbps). We had a large discussion about that here. Nothing will change since then. Period. This post has been edited by IgorC: Aug 16 2012, 14:53 -------------------- http://listening-test.coresv.net/results.htm
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wulongti wrote:my next project was going to be a leg upgrade for the Legends OP/Motor Breath but that hasn't gotten beyond a few concept sketches.
What kinda stuff did you have in mind?
It's been suggested that I do some limbs that don't have all the "lego pegs" all over them in order to go for a cooler looking action figure... Ariel Lemon (fakebusker83) suggested that these could easily be worked into drone limbs for devistator or the other upcoming combiners ala PPC style...
I've also been thinking about a torso upgrade to give these figures more bulk in the middle.
Noideaforaname wrote:Wow, those turned out fantastic! Love the ports all over them for potential customization.
Out of curiosity, can a vaguely DotM Devcon-ish pose be achieved with these?:
I'd love to see more Shapeways Kre-O parts, too. More helmets most definitely, though I'd also like to see an alternative set or two of legs. Like a single, "pogo" leg for RotF Rampage and BM Jetstorm, or a single, wheeled leg for RotF Scavenger/Demolishor and BM Thrust (or a single leg that can be used in both "pogo" and wheeled styles; i.e. you just pop a wheel on or off).
wulongti wrote:
gavinfuzzy wrote:wulongti wrote:
Nice work with the kits!
The base plate Bluestreak is standing on caught my attention. Do you, by any chance, collect Halo Megablock minifigures, and happen to own the unlisted clear variant spartans? Or it could just be an identical plate from another set...
Tresob wrote:I just spent about 45 minutes surfing Shapeways. There are some really cool TF custom pieces up there. (E.g. Ariel's Customs has all of the War for Cybertron weapons...neat!)
Tresob wrote:I noticed that some of the seller's items seemed to have a strange porous texture to them. What setting did you use to order your parts?
Tresob wrote:Also, do the prices include mark-ups by the designer or is Shapeways taking the entire profit?
Tresob wrote:And if someone had a crazy idea to try to make some helmets on their own, how would you recommend they do it? Is there some kind of template for LEGO-compatible headgear? It seems like it would be a pain to design the female-plug on the inside of the helmet...not to mention making sure one left enough room for the face to peer out.
Stormcry wrote:Dear Hasbro or Mega Bloks,
Please hire Wulongti immediately, as they have very obvious talent, and then please market these designs as soon
as possible. Every Transformer/mech/giant robo fan that also
collects lego'esque building blocks will want as many of these
as possible, Lego, don't hire him, you make your kits to expensive these day.
Sincerely, Me.
P.S. In all honesty dude, those are amazing. I would love to own a bajillion of each, in many many colors. I already have custom transformers ideas spawning using those and the mega bloks need for speed and halo lines. Rest assured, come next pay day, I will be ordering atleast one set, if not 5.
Tresob wrote:On a side note, while you are entertaining requests, there is a particular kind of brick I've always wanted to see but have never found.
It would really be handy to have a small, right-angled, one-stud piece with the stud on the hypotenuse and a female bottom face. This brick could then be attached to a plate and the kreon's foot attached to the angled brick so as to make the kreon look like he was running or jumping.
In other words, imagine if the little vent piece that they use for Skorponok's stinger had a stud instead of the vent.
Without such a piece, my kreon's always have to have one leg perpendicular to the ground.
Make that piece in clear plastic, and you would be a mini-fig hero.
Stormcry wrote:Just ordered my first of probably many sets. Just got the plain white, cause well... Still need money for christmas shopping. If you keep expanding your shop, I'm sure to be atleast a once a month customer!
Tresob wrote:Neato!
Now you just have to redesign a waist, legs, arms, and hands, and you've pretty much made yourself an entirely new building toy mini-fig.
Actually, slightly shorter limbs might work really well with your slightly shorter torso to make mini-bots.
raiettei wrote:I am QUITE excited about the things you're promising for the future!
I was a little skeptical, but I took a chance and I'm glad I did. I just received two of these kits last night, a black and a white, and I couldn't be happier with them.
I'll post pictures of my best creation so far later on when I get the chance, but... wow. Keep up the good work!
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San Antoinio pre-show - Cart chase
San Antoinio pre-show - Cart chase. Willie and Bruce take on the local ranger in a multi-media golf cart duel.
Today was a day off in San Antonio. We are staying in a resort hotel surrounded by a major golf course. Quite why this is, I can't imagine, but it does seem a brave, if not foolhardy place to park a rock band for a few days. The weather was nice, so some of our number ventured out to play golf. I have long been distressed by this golfing tendency, being a firm believer that golf is absolutely the least rock and roll activity yet invented by the human race. Instead, I opted for a stroll with our lighting director, Bruce Ramus. We tried to rent a couple of bicycles, but the contract you were required to sign before taking one out was so terrifying, we passed on the idea. Strolling further, we came to the golf club house. Outside were parked a row of rather nice looking golf carts. And they had keys in the ignition. There was no one about. Well. It'd be rude not to, really. Off we sped, at a giddy 3 miles per hour, hooting and hollering over the manicured lawns of the resort. After ten minutes of joy riding, we discovered to our disbelief, that these golf carts have computer screens on board with a global positioning device in them. The screen was showing us, not only our own position on the golf course, but also the position of other golf carts nearby. Really! Our first goal was to see what happened if you drove off the map entirely, so we headed for the rough. A beeping sound greeted us, with a flashing notice on the monitor "Please return to the path". This is too much! Up hill and down dale we roared, having a high old time, until we realised that if this computer knew where we were, then you could be sure there was one in the club house which also knew. Sure enough, before long we spy the Ranger's golf cart pursuing us, so we drive into the off-map bushes to shake him off. By now the sun was setting and it was a truly idyllic moment, green fields, sunshine, pink fluffy clouds, swaying trees, etc. We were loving it. Whilst we were giving the Ranger a few minutes to move on, we turned our attention to the on board computer. What else would this thing do? Much hilarity erupted when we discovered you could order room service right out there on the course. Punch in the order, and in 20 minutes a waiter will arrive with food on another cart (he knows where you are, remember...). The golf cart would also keep score for you, as you went along. The high point of this discovery was that if you get a hole in one (or if you at least tell it you got a hole in one) a speaker inside the cart blares the sound of an audience applauding. Well, now we were really having fun. Coming out of hiding, we must have taken a wrong turn, because we found ourselves cruising through the swimming pool area on paths way too small for the cart. Happy families looked on bewildered as our vehicle sped by, with the sound of canned applause trailing off into the distance.
Eventually, of course, we came to grief as our cart battery began to die, and we ran into the arms of the Ranger and the golf course manager, who were most keen to reclaim their vehicle. "I tell you what", says the Ranger in his Texan drawl, "you folks mightn't play golf, but y'all can sure drive a golf cart..."
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21 Nov, 2006
Travel day, Melbourne - Auckland.
Within the bands entourage (certainly by comparison to the crews clockwork scheduling) travel departure times are often a little loose. This morning was especially so, due to three contradictory memos which had been emailed out last night and this morning.
Read More »
20 Oct, 2006
There was a 6.30pm conference call arranged between Bono (Dublin), The Edge (Los Angeles), Steve Matthews (London) and myself (also London) to blow the cobwebs off our brains and discuss the reincarnation of the Vertigo Tour.
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15 Mar, 2006
I was planning on resurrecting the tour diary today, being the day we were scheduled to fly to Auckland for the load-in tomorrow. However, its now old news that the remainder of the tour dates have been postponed, so Im not going anywhere further than the corner cafe. Its been a very weird week indeed - much akin to driving into a wall.
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New Age Cabinet Set - Grey - 5 pc.
by Coleman
Item #: 70262
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- $ 1,278 00 1278.00
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New Age cabinets are modular and can adjust to your needs. From a simple base cabinet for putting down groceries, to a full 8' workstation for gardening projects, these cabinetry systems can accommodate any garage.
This fully-assembled, 18-gauge steel cabinet set features inner steel walls for added strength and durability. Its heavy-duty, powder-coat finish is stain- and scratch-resistant. The set has a black cabinet frame and dark grey cabinet doors with aluminum trim, as well as a powerful magnetic door latch to securely shut the doors.
Quantity | Type | Description |
2 | Wall Cabinets | - 2 adjustable steel shelves - Steel pegboard side panels inside doors |
1 | 2-Door Base Cabinet | - Adjustable pull-out shelf - Steel pegboard side panels inside doors |
1 | Tool Drawer-Cabinet | - 5 full extension ball-bearing slide drawers with liners - Fully lockable |
1 | Maple Butcher Block Work Top | - Solid rock maple - 56"L |
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When someone is constantly thinking about eating, worried about eating, looking to eat, or just eating! One who is hungry and is just trying to fill one's hole (mouth).
Jennifer is such a hungry hole!
po Stephx86
Октобар 24, 2005
1 more definition
Top Definition
When somones ass is just achin for some man meat or huge dildo. If someone has a hungry hole it means their asshole is hungry for sexual pleasure.
Sally: Oh baby! Can you feed my Hungry Hole??
Barbara: Ya for sure babe just let me go grab my black dildo!
Barbara: Ya for sure babe just let me go grab my black dildo!
po Colinsgonnagetpwned
Јануар 12, 2006


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marble mix. Progressive table for four rises to the occasion with a fresh pairing in small dining. Crafted of Banswara white marble, sleek square top appears to float on Parsons-style acacia wood frame thanks to a neat chamfered edge. Dines or preps at counter height as a kitchen island, or even works as a standing desk.


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Grade Range: 6-12Resource Type(s): Lessons & Activities, Primary Source, Interactives & Media, Reference MaterialsDate Posted: 9/12/2009
This website provides online access to this collection of oral histories, photos, documents, and objects related to bracero history. Students can browse the archive, use social bookmarking tools to share resources, add their own notes and make a poster using items from the archive, and contribute to the archive by adding their own stories about the bracero program.
The Smithsonian's National Museum of American History is part of a consortium of museums, universities, and cultural institutions documenting and preserving the history of the bracero program, a little-known chapter of American history in which an estimated two million Mexican men came to the United States between 1942-1964 on short-term labor contracts. The Bracero History Project has recorded more than 600 oral histories and has collected many objects.
Multiple activities, Multimedia instruction, Museum education, Thematic approach
Reference Materials
Interactives & Media
Primary Source
The short-handled hoe brings back memories of back-breaking labor for generations of Mexican and ...
history, Mexico, life, braceros, bracero, Immigration, Mexican, archive, American, farming, immigrant, Central, community, America, labor, bracero, agriculture, family, exploitation, program
A little girl experiences the hardship of immigrating to a new country where she no longer has th...
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Baggage Handler
In short, Baggage Handler cannot keep under-eye bags (or dark circles or puffiness) in check.
Fabulous Foaming Face Wash
This is a very good cleanser/scrub option for normal to oily skin, and it does contain some soothing botanicals as claimed.
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Bliss At-A-Glance
Strengths: Good selection of cleansers; fantastic gel blush.
Weaknesses: A preponderance of products whose claims raise hopes but that don't work even remotely as described; several sunscreens without sufficient UVA protection; no effective anti-blemish or skin-lightening products.
The way Bliss came to be one of the more successful and well-known spa locations around makes an intriguing story. Marcia Kilgore, a native of Canada, was a student at New York's Columbia University—but when her tuition plans fell through she had no choice but to fall back on her one marketable skill, personal training. Yet even though her venture was blossoming, she was routinely troubled by her complexion and ended up enrolling in a skin-care course where the seeds of a future empire were planted. Kilgore developed a knack and passion for facials, and soon she was on her way to becoming a beauty guru among Manhattan's celebrities and social elite. As Kilgore expanded from a one-room spa to a small business, word spread of her talents, and in July 1996 Bliss was established with the goal of offering "super-effective treatments in an uncontrived 'no-attitude' atmosphere."
What immediately set Bliss apart from the then relatively quiet spa business was Kilgore's sense of irreverence and openness, and her commitment to skill and jazzed-up product formulations that are seemingly right on the pulse of what consumers are looking for, namely natural botanicals, exotic scents, and anything and everything that can duplicate (as closely as possible) the spa experience at home. When products used during services started disappearing from the spa, it was a none-too-subtle clue that customers liked what they experienced—though spa techniques can go a long way toward making inadequate products seem exceptional. Kilgore noticed, and began to consider retailing them to her clients.
In 1999, Kilgore entered a partnership with luxury goods conglomerate and Sephora owner Louis Vuitton-Moet-Hennessey (LVMH), and sold them a 70% stake in the company. Her business skyrocketed as new spa locations opened, and dozens of new products have been created. The Bliss products are available in some department stores, Sephora, and through the Bliss catalog and Web site. Interestingly, Sephora still promotes the line even though LVMH sold it to Starwood Hotels and Resorts in 2004. Several Starwood-owned properties now sport or will soon be opening Bliss spas. Kilgore is moving away from the empire she created (though she still consults for them) and in 2007 launched a new line, Soap & Glory.
Uniquely effective or revolutionary formulas are not what sets Bliss products apart. Rather, the descriptions and claims for almost every Bliss-labeled product make "too good to be true" sound utterly ordinary by comparison. No wonder these products generate so much interest. Rather than contain everything but the kitchen sink, they claim to fix or improve everything but the kitchen sink! Kilgore admitted in the March 2007 issue of Vogue, "Legally you can't claim a product does anything; otherwise it would be a drug." That's not entirely true. For example, it is perfectly legal to claim a cleanser cleans skin and a moisturizer improves dryness and leave skin feeling soft. Those are real actions, but not ones with a druglike effect. Perhaps she made that remark after having removed herself from the Bliss spotlight, but it's telling that the woman who created so many cleverly named and fancifully articulated products goes against her own statement by attaching all manner of druglike claims to almost all of the products Bliss sells. Despite the spin and recycling of inaccurate information, there are some worthy products to take home after your visit to a Bliss spa. As a Bliss client, placing your faith in the entire product line and its false promises is the mistake to avoid—your money is better spent enjoying a massage or hydrotherapy treatment.
For more information about Bliss, call (888) 243-8825 or visit www.blissworld.com
Bliss Makeup
Without a doubt, the Bliss line is primarily about skin care. Their once comprehensive-but-still-boutique-like makeup collection has dwindled to a handful of products. Apparently, their own brand of cleverly named, cutely described cosmetics wasn't selling as well as items from other lines sold on the company's Web site. Although there isn't much available, all but one of Blisslabs' makeup products is recommended, though in most cases you can find less-expensive versions at the drugstore.
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5.11 Men's A Class Shirt, Long Sleeve, Poly-Rayon 42153 has been discontinued by 5.11 Tactical and is no longer available. Our product experts have helped us select these available replacements below. You can also explore other items in the Shirts category yourself to try and find the perfect replacement for you!
This model of 5.11 Men and Womens Apparel is discontinued and no longer available. Please choose from our wide selection of Under Armour apparel, Blackhawk apparel and Boyt apparel on our site.


text: Most of our customers have heard about the incredible benefits of fresh, high quality, home-brewed compost tea, but not everyone knows how easy and inexpensive a process it can actually be. We have all the quality ingredients you need for brewing, but did not offer until now our own brew kit. Now, for pennies a gallon, produce your own exactly how you want it, when you want it. Includes 5-gallon pail and lid, aeration pump, interior aeration apparatus, 2 qt of Arctic Humus, and 15 oz Peaceful Valley Compost Tea Catalyst.


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Helpful Definition for: Clubs
A health club or a fitness club in Schroon Lake is a place which houses exercise equipment for the purpose of physical exercise. The facilities and services provided in these clubs are: main workout area, cardio area, group exercise classes, sports facilities, and personal training. The other services provided are health shops, snack bars, restaurants, member lounges and cafes. It is not unusual for a sauna, steam shower, or wellness areas to be present. They charge a fee to allow visitors to use the equipment, courses and other provided services. Costs can vary through the purchase of a higher-level membership or a life membership.


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Vans Guilder II Shirt L/S - Classic Blue
Vans Cajon L/S T-Shirt - Creme/ Riviera
Vans Lismore Jacket - Frost Grey
Vans Core Basics Zip Hoodie II - Riviera Heather
Vans Classic T-Shirt - Slate/Peacoat
Vans Penken 2015 Snowboard Jacket - Tap Shoe
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Vans Classic Boys T-Shirt
Vans first shoe was the Vans #44, now a classic known as the Vans Authentic and was sold directly from their factory. In 1975 Vans upped their game by working with skate legends Tony Alva and Stacy Peralta to create the Vans #95, a shoe that with its wide choice of colours became the first choice for a generation of skateboarders. This shoe, now known as the Vans Era still continues to inspire, through its history, the skate culture of today.
Vans are famous for their collabs and often work with other brands to release a premium and limited selection of low, mid and hi-top footwear that reflect on the history of skating. Recent collabs can be seen with such companies as Spitfire, Skateboarder Magazine, Rebel8 and Independent Trucks. Vans have also spread their wings from just making shoes and now have a large range of clothing and accessories from t-shirts and shirts to bags and hats and now even iPhone cases, all embellished with classic Vans logos. So go get 'Off the Wall' and grab yourself a piece of skate heritage.


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We are committed to providing a high level of assistance to our physician colleagues within BMC and outside of the BMC system, as well. Whether for diagnostics, treatment, a single consultation, second opinion or ongoing follow up, our physicians will keep the consulting physician fully informed of the patient's treatment plan and coordinate long term management.
To refer a patient to our practice, please call 617.414.5245.
For our 24 Hour On-Call Service, call: 617.638.8000 (request the Psychiatrist on call)
BMC Connect
You can also contact our BMC Connect service at 800.682.2862. BMC Connect is Boston Medical Center's physician-to-physician consult service that provides quick and easy access to specialized expertise and information for referring physicians and medical professionals. BMC Connect provides a range of services including managing referrals, consultations, services and patient transfers. Call toll-free 800.682.2862 or email@example.com.
Admit/Transfer a Patient
To transfer or admit a patient, please call our One-Call patient admitting service, accessible 24/7. Pager number: 617.638.5795, #1111.


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Baby Jogger City Mini SingleItem #BBJ146
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Baby Jogger® City Mini Single Stroller :: The City Mini captures the essence of urban mobility. Its lightweight design makes it perfect for running errands or all day excursions in the urban jungle. Features & Benefits:
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Patent Troll MythsMichael RischVillanova University School of Law August 15, 2011 Seton Hall Law Review, Vol. 42, p. 457, 2012 Villanova Law/Public Policy Research Paper No. 2012-2011 Abstract: It turns out that just about everything we thought about patent trolls – good or bad – is wrong. Using newly gathered data, this article presents an ethnography of sorts about highly litigious non-practicing entity (NPE) plaintiffs. The results are surprising: they show that the conventional wisdom about patent trolls is likely based on anecdotal, but infrequently occurring, events. Instead, the patents enforced by so-called trolls – and the companies that obtained them – look a lot like other litigated patents and their owners. To be sure, whether an NPE qualifies as a troll depends on who is doing the name-calling. Regardless of definition, though, commentators on all sides have used little evidence to support their positions. The reason is simple: there has been little research about the patents litigated by NPEs and even less about the source of those patents. Understanding NPEs is critically important to better understanding the role of patents in society and in entrepreneurial businesses. The debate cannot be resolved without further study of the companies whose patents are now litigated by NPEs. This study is the first step in that direction. Number of Pages in PDF File: 44 Keywords: Patent, Troll, NPE, Non-Practicing Entities, Litigation Date posted: March 28, 2011 ; Last revised: September 30, 2012Suggested CitationContact Information
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The Royal Arms Jubilant
Access: Use of this item is restricted to the UNT Community.
Date: 1887
Creator: Mecham, William
Description: Queen Victoria, a lion picking his teeth, a unicorn, coat of arms, champagne, flags, meat on a platter, seascape, boats in the distance are all pictured in this satirical cartoon from the weekly magazine, St. Stephen's Review.
Contributing Partner: UNT College of Visual Arts + Design


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Bridal Warehouse features thousands of designer gowns for weddings, proms, homecoming, Quinceaneras and other formal occasions. Voted the National...(more)
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If you mention that you saw the Twirl Lexington page on Wedding Wire we will take 10% off your bridal party order (exclusions apply).
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Bronx, NY (Sports Network) - Former New York Yankees outfielder Hideki Matsui announced the end of a 10-year major-league career on Thursday.
The New York Post reported that the 38-year-old native of Japan called it quits at a press conference in Manhattan.
Matsui came to North America in 2003, following a successful 10-year stint with the Tokyo Yomiuri Giants of Japan's Central League. He landed in the Bronx, and made a splash as the first player in club lore to hit a grand slam in his Yankee debut, coming on Apr. 8, 2003 against Minnesota.
"Hideki is proof that baseball is an international attraction that brings people from all over the world together in their passion for the game. He was the type of player and person you want young fans of this game to emulate," said Yankees general manager Brian Cashman. "He played with pride, discipline and of course talent, and flourished when the lights were at their brightest. People naturally gravitated towards him, and that's a direct reflection of his character. He was a true professional in every sense of the word and it feels good knowing he was able to raise the championship trophy as a member of the Yankees."
In seven seasons with New York, Matsui collected 140 home runs, 196 doubles and 597 RBI with a .292 average in 916 regular-season games, and won World Series MVP honors in 2009 after hitting a scorching .615 with three homers and eight RBI in a six-game triumph over defending-champion Philadelphia.
He etched his name in franchise postseason lore with a monster performance in the deciding Game 6 at Yankee Stadium, erupting for six RBI in a 7-3 victory -- tying the mark set by the Yankees' Bobby Richardson in an Oct. 8, 1960 Game 3 victory against Pittsburgh.
Matsui played for three different clubs over the last three seasons, spending 2010 with the Angels, 2011 with Oakland and last season with Tampa Bay. The left-handed slugger managed just two homers and seven runs batted in over 34 games for the Rays, with a career-low .147 average.
"I've said it numerous times over the years, but it's worth repeating now. I've had a lot of teammates over the years with the Yankees, but I will always consider Hideki one of my favorites. The way he went about his business day in and day out was impressive," remarked Yankees captain Derek Jeter. "I have a lot of respect for Hideki. He was someone we counted on a great deal and he's a big reason why we became World Champions in 2009."
All told, Matsui ended up with a .282 average, 175 homers and 760 RBI over 1,236 games. In 56 games over 11 postseason series, "Godzilla" struck for 10 long balls, 15 doubles, 39 RBI and hit a robust .312. He was a two-time All- Star selection who finished second in Rookie of the Year voting in 2003.
The Sports Network


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Review: Cálem 10 Year Old Tawny Port Wine
Posted by Arctic Wolf on August 29, 2012
I came upon the chance to review this particular Cálem Port Wine quite by accident. When Woodman Wines and Spirits learned I was looking for a suitable aged Tawny Port in my mad desire to construct a new and original "Millionaire Punch". They suggested that they could send me a bottle of the Cálem 10 Year Old Tawny for the recipe's construction. The Cálem Tawny had all of the characteristics I was looking for, and I agreed to receive the bottle. Since I would not need the entire bottle for my punch recipe, I decided I would review this wine here on my website as well.
In case you are wondering, my "Millionaire Punch" was an unmitigated disaster, and I regret that 4 oz of this wonderful Port Wine was subjected to my dreadful experiment.
Here is an excerpt from my review:
You may read the full review here:
Review: Cálem 10 Year Old Tawny Port Wine
I had planned on revealing my "Millionaire Punch" as part of this review, but I rather think it best that I advise you to enjoy this Port Wine in the manner in which it was intended, as a wonderful after dinner treat.
Enjoy the review!
Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.


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I hope some movie house has this coming to Austin. It is Hayao Miyazaki's last movie ever. :(
Here is a new clip called "Creating Planes" from Hayao Miyazaki's final animated film The Wind Rises. The film has a limited release starting Friday February 21st and then a full release next Friday.
Synopsis: In "The Wind Rises," Jiro (voice of Joseph Gordon-Levitt) dreams of flying and designing beautiful airplanes, inspired by the famous Italian aeronautical designer Caproni (voice of Stanley Tucci). Nearsighted from a young age and unable to be a pilot, Jiro joins a major Japanese engineering company in 1927 and becomes one of the world's most innovative and accomplished airplane designers, earning the respect of prominent industry greats, including Hattori (voice of Mandy Patinkin) and Kurokawa (voice of Martin Short). The film chronicles much of Jiro's life, depicting key historical events, including the Great Kanto Earthquake of 1923, the Great Depression, the tuberculosis epidemic and Japan's plunge into war. Jiro meets and falls in love with Nahoko (voice of Emily Blunt), and grows and cherishes his friendship with his colleague Honjo (voice of John Krasinski). Writer and director Hayao Miyazaki pays tribute to engineer Jiro Horikoshi and author Tatsuo Hori in this epic tale of love, perseverance, and the challenges of living and making choices in a turbulent world.
The Wind Rises features the voice talents of Joseph Gordon-Levitt, John Krasinski, Emily Blunt, Martin Short, Stanley Tucci, Mandy Patinkin, Mae Whitman, Werner Herzog, Jennifer Grey, William H. Macy, Zach Callison, Madeleine Rose Yen, Eva Bella, Edie Mirman, Darren Criss, Elijah Wood, Ronan Farrow, and David Cowgill.
Follow Mania on Facebook and Twitter for all the latest genre news and reviews.
I hope some movie house has this coming to Austin. It is Hayao Miyazaki's last movie ever. :(


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She Gapes
She Gapes
Anna, one sexy brunette that can take it in the ass! When these guys got through, Anna\'s asshole looked like a cordurory tube top stretched over a hula hoop! -
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This product contain moisturizers that makes skin feel nice,soft and clean.It is the most healthy shave foam.
Great Shaving cream. Very good Lubrication. The cream lathered nicely on my skin and it also has a very nice smell. Highly recommended.
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Drew Storen hasn't appeared in a game since March 7.
Updated at 5:38 p.m.
VIERA, Fla. — It's been nearly two weeks since Drew Storen last pitched, raising questions about the Nationals closer's status.
Turns out Storen has been suffering from strep throat, and doctors have instructed him to stay away from the clubhouse for the most part for fear of infecting others on the roster.
Storen has made only two appearances in Grapefruit League play, tossing a scoreless inning against the Astros on March 4 and then another scoreless inning against the Cardinals on March 7.
The Nationals had planned all along to ease their young closer into the season, not wanting to burn him out in advance of Opening Day. ButRead more »
- whatsanattau - Mar 20, 2012 at 5:58 PM
oh cr@p! Last pitcher to have a strp throat had to have his elbow operated on.
- whatsanattau - Mar 20, 2012 at 5:59 PM
- natsfan1a - Mar 20, 2012 at 6:00 PM
Just a coinkydink, I'm sure.Great to have you back in Viera down the stretch, Mark!
- MicheleS - Mar 20, 2012 at 6:01 PM
Jane B.. glad you liked the Koolaid (from previous post). My tickets are on the FedEx truck in Herndon. They better be at the house when I get home, or I am going to the Herndon office and picking them up tonight!
- LoveDaNats - Mar 20, 2012 at 6:13 PM
Oh, poor baby. I should take him some homemade chicken soup. Anything to get back down to Fla. And MicheleS, I'll throw in a few cookies for Det.
- LoveDaNats - Mar 20, 2012 at 6:14 PM
This comment has been removed by the author.
- sjm308 - Mar 20, 2012 at 6:15 PM
Thanks Mark:Makes sense to rest Drew in that he does not have the same issues as last year and they can probably get a closer ready much easier than the starters.Interesting lineup with Lombo leading off. I also like what I have read from Shenin about Davey taking over these last 16 games. I had no idea he let the coaches have so much control but I guess that makes sense.The last post got rundown with people making silly comments about medical issues that they have no insights or facts on. (lat is the large triangular muscle in the upper back/Labrum is part of the shoulder joint capsule and not related at all). All we can do is trust that what is being released is factual. Now, I do understand the lack of trust with any administration but if Morse has a lat strain, then rest is the logical choice. NatsLady is right about the severity of strep. As a swim coach at the University Level it was something we really kept an eye on during the winter months. It can quickly and easily spiral into something more dangerous. Just restup Drew and stay out of the hot yoga as well.Go Nats!! Get Healthy!!!
- ehay2k - Mar 20, 2012 at 6:31 PM
Strep? This is Rizzo's fault! Or are the Lerners too cheap to buy Lysol?Who else can we blame?;-)
- bgib - Mar 20, 2012 at 6:37 PM
We can blame Bikram yoga.http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/nats-do-bikram-yoga/2012/03/20/gIQAvWhhPS_blog.html
- JamesFan - Mar 20, 2012 at 6:42 PM
It's the hair. Collects germs.What about LaRoche? He's the real question to me.
- Steady Eddie - Mar 20, 2012 at 7:00 PM
sjm 308 said "(lat is the large triangular muscle in the upper back/Labrum is part of the shoulder joint capsule and not related at all)"How can you say that? They are too related! They both start with L A. That must be a secret signal that the Nats are going to trade Lannan and iAn to the Dodgers.
- NatsLady - Mar 20, 2012 at 7:02 PM
Even without Cabrera Detroit is scary.
- NatsLady - Mar 20, 2012 at 7:07 PM
Not that Davey is going to break records getting ejected, but I like the idea that coaches are expected to think on their own.
- NatinBeantown - Mar 20, 2012 at 7:07 PM
I can't believe Desmond gave Storen strep.Love the dateline Mark. Hey CSN, Mark's loyal readers appreciate the great coverage provided by Mark at ST.
- Anonymous - Mar 20, 2012 at 7:13 PM
George Gipp died of strep throat!
- Sunderland - Mar 20, 2012 at 7:28 PM
From previous post, comparing Lannan to other $5 starters, Will said:However, just a quick look at the other teams in the NL East's #5sMets: Dillon Gee – 4.04 career ERAPhillies: Blanton – 4.32 ERAMarlins: Zambrano – 3.60 ERABraves: Minor – 4.74 (with Delgado and Teheran eagerly waiting in the wings)Lannan doesn't stand out as particularly impressive even just within our own division. *******Will, I have no idea how you decided who the "#5" was on these teams.Marlins will start Johnson, Sanchez, Volstad, Zambrano and Buehrle. By any measure, Lannan has been better than Nolasco, and his 4.50 career ERA, and ERA's of 5.06, 4.51 and 4.67 the last three seasons.Mets will have Mike Pelfrey in their rotation, with his 4.40 career ERA. Jonathon Niese is also a projected starter, with his 4.39 career ERA.Your analysis is deeply flawed.Lannan and his 3.70 ERA last year would have been one of the best #5's in the NL last year.
- lls45 - Mar 20, 2012 at 7:35 PM
Thanks for the update on Drew, Mark. Hope he recovers quickly. On a side note, I've never been happier to hear my doorbell ring — my season tickets have arrived!
- DWS - Mar 20, 2012 at 7:40 PM
Doc Halladay concerns were a little premature methinks.6IP,3H,1ER. Granted it was the O's but…Being from Canada I got an overdose of Bluejays. Don't ever doubt this man.I think NOW we'll how things are shaping up.
- Anonymous - Mar 20, 2012 at 7:47 PM
Sunderland I agree with Will's analysis and I've producedsolid Math to back it up. Not the antiquated ERA. Livowas far better than Lannan and he had a worse ERA.I'm afraid your analysis of Lannan is deeply flawed andjust plain wrong. He can't get through 5 innings and islucky to make it that far given the stats I use and it's a consistent pattern over the past 5 years. Davey's going with Wang and Detwiler not Lannan in spite of Mark's bias.
- sm13 - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:02 PM
Thanks Mark for solving the great Drew mystery. I hope he doesn't pass it on to Tyler.
- Section 222 - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:07 PM
My season tickets have been "On FedEx vehicle for delivery" in Washington, DC since 8:21 am. That truck sure is taking a roundabout route!
- greg - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:08 PM
mark's most recent tweet: astros close clubhouse. nothing confirmed, but sounds like bourgeois transaction in works. healthy scratch.
- Positively Half St. - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:10 PM
Both Bourgeois and catcher Quintero saying goodbye to teammates (Astros beat writer tweet)+1/2St.
- Positively Half St. - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:12 PM
The trade is to KC, not DC.+1/2St.
- Feel Wood - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:13 PM
Periculum, you say:I'm afraid your analysis of Lannan is deeply flawed and just plain wrong. He can't get through 5 innings and is lucky to make it that far given the stats I use and it's a consistent pattern over the past 5 years.Yet Will, the commenter whose analysis you endorse, pointed this out in the previous comment thread:And while I do think Lannan hasn't been bad, I would suspect his numbers would be quite a bit worse if he didn't have such a strong bullpen behind him. Through his career, he only averages under 6 innings (5.87) per startYou do realize, don't you, that in order to average 5.87 innings per start, a pitcher needs to get through 5 innings way more often than not? If your advanced stats suggest that Lannan can't get through 5 innings, then you need to get some new advanced stats. Maybe you should try looking on Planet Earth instead of whatever planet you're currently inhabitng.
- greg - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:14 PM
:/weird. i understand quintero, but doesn't KC already have a young CF they traded melky away to make time for?
- fpcsteve - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:16 PM
When I began coaching basketball someone told me (regarding stats), "Figures lie, and liars figure." Numbers can be made to say almost anything you want. It seems to me that it would almost be better for folks who dislike "fill in the blank" to just name it and claim it without resorting to stats. I like Lannan and hope he does well for us this year.
- Anonymous - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:20 PM
I am guessing that Jesus Flores and/or John Lannan were just traded to Houston. Just a hunch.dfh21
- Theophilus - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:24 PM
Can't see anybody wanting Quintero if they could stick a catcher's mitt on a spare mattress.
- Les in NC - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:25 PM
So you think Quintero will be our new backup Catcher?
- Cwj - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:26 PM
5.87 IP/GS isn't very good for a healthy pitcher.But regarding Lannan's ERA, it consistently beats his FIP so luck isn't a factor for him.I think he's a solid #5 starter, but not the one I would prefer for the Nats.Fpcsteve- Yeah it's easy to get carried away with some stats. I like a nice balanced view of a player
- Anonymous - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:36 PM
Interesting that Drew has been sick for 5 days and no one mentioned it. Did they think no one would notice? Come on, now – Nats fans would notice a hangnail – like they wouldn't notice their closer being mia for a while!
- Gonat - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:37 PM
Mark's tweet "Davey also said he's considered using Lombardozzi some in OF but hasn't talked to him yet about it. Likens Lombo to Ben Zobrist"One of our esteemed commentors said that 2 months ago that he should be a Jerry Hairston type. As a switch hitter it really enhances his value to the team.
- gonatsgo - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:38 PM
Is this trade thing a rumor or is there some basis in reality? I like Lannan, I admire Wang, I would like to see Detweiler get a shot. Oh – the angst. Don't toy with us if it's there's not a chance it's true.
- greg - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:40 PM
The Royals announced that they have acquired outfielder Jason Bourgeois and catcher Humberto Quintero from the Astros for minor league left-hander Kevin Chapman and a player to be named later.
- Gonat - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:47 PM
Nyjer Morgan just face-planted running around 2nd. TOO FUNNY
- Gonat - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:50 PM
Jason Bourgeois, Humberto Quintero traded by Houston for a Minor League Leftie. How doesn't Rizzo take that deal?Bourgeois bashes left-handed pitching and is the perfect platoon player.
- Dave - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:52 PM
Looks like Kevin Chapman was something like the #25 rated prospect for the Royals (a 2010 4th rounder). Makes you wonder whether those reports that Rizzo was inquiring about Bourgeois held any water at all, as he apparently didn't offer much for him.
- sjm308 - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:53 PM
fpcSteve – I agree with your comment on figures and again, that is why the only stat I can rely on is WINS. If we score more runs then the other team after 9 innings, we WIN. If we WIN the other team Loses. If we win enough games we will be in the playoffs. Peric can throw all the stats he wants out there but if our #5 pitcher can win 11 to 12 games I think we will be happy and John Lannan, Detwiler and CM Wang can certainly do that. In my opinion, the way Wang was throwing before his injury he had the potential to be the best #5 pitcher in all of baseball. No stats, just my eyes which I will rely on more then braap or whatever letters anons throw out there.Go Nats!!
- Theophilus - Mar 20, 2012 at 8:59 PM
Anyway, Bourgeois is one less bum for people on this blog to obsess about.
- natsfan1a - Mar 20, 2012 at 9:01 PM
I don't know all the high-falutin' stats but isn't that the sound one makes after consuming one too many Nats dogs?No stats, just my eyes which I will rely on more then braap or whatever letters anons throw out there.
- NatsBrat - Mar 20, 2012 at 9:06 PM
Tinkerbell has strep throat—I thought he threw the ball with his right arm????
- JaneB - Mar 20, 2012 at 9:08 PM
Beantown, you beat me to it when you wrote:I can't believe Desmond gave Storen strep.I hope MLB doesn't freeze again tonight.I support the chicken soup mission for Drew. And the cookies for Det. And more koolaid for me, please.
- A DC Wonk - Mar 20, 2012 at 9:12 PM
5.87 IP/GS isn't very good for a healthy pitcher. But regarding Lannan's ERA, it consistently beats his FIP so luck isn't a factor for him.No, but 5.9 IP/GS the league average. So, he's average there. He's better than average for IP per season, and better than average for ERA.All of which, if he pitches like last year, one of the best, if not _the_ best #5 pitchers in the league.
- Theophilus - Mar 20, 2012 at 9:23 PM
What's bad about Lannan is starting him when you have someone better on the bench. Wang is better — but injured. Detwiler is better — but common sense says that a guy (like Lannan) with a big WHIP no. shouldn't be relied on out of the bullpen. No matter how "average" Lannan's nos. might be, he's not giving the Nats their best chance to win. The only thing good about the present situation is that the other pitchers in the rotation (Jackson still to be proven in my opinion) do not abuse the BP the way Lannan does. Last year that was not the case. So, hopefully, Johnson won't have to burn 3-4 relievers more than once every five days. And, when he does — again, hopefully — Lidge will be able to find the strike zone and safe wear and tear on Clippard and/or Storen.
- Hondo69 - Mar 20, 2012 at 9:23 PM
Just a reminder to everyone: tonight's game is on SNY live at 6pm. If you can't watch it live or get SNY (Ch. 639 on DirecTV), it is also being tape-delayed at 3am on MLB Network.
- Unkyd - Mar 20, 2012 at 9:46 PM
HAHAHA!!!!!! I will be citing "braap" from here on out, whenever anyanon throws up stats I don't care enough about to look up!!! This is awesome!!! BRAAP! BRAAP! BRAAP!!!!! woot!
- DWS - Mar 20, 2012 at 9:49 PM
Also MLBtv. When Lannan and Des are gone, who's next?
- DWS - Mar 20, 2012 at 9:51 PM
Oh, BRAAP. Oops, excuse me.
- Cwj - Mar 20, 2012 at 10:24 PM
Hey now, not all of us who like stats here are anons! :-)Myself and a few other regulars are into stats as well.
- fpcsteve - Mar 20, 2012 at 11:26 PM
Cwj, I'm good with stats. I used them all the time when I was coaching. I'm just saying the tone of the discussion at times makes it sound like stats are being used as an excuse to run somebody out of town. If and when Lannan goes, he will be immediately replaced with another target who "has to go." Stats? Have at it! I've learned a lot from most of the people who post here.
- Angeline - Apr 23, 2012 at 4:59 AM
Strep throat or severe sore throat can be irritating. It's good that Storen took a rest. I look forward to seeig him on his next game.


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