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What is the point of the motor assistance?Only a controller limits speed?[quote="Hangdog98"] said, "I think you'll also find that the rated power of the standard 500W and 1000W motors on offer differ only by the sticker that conveniently matches the maximum output of the country they're meant to be sold in. Again, the power output is regulated by the controller, not the motor ...".
(late amendment x Alan. 'Joe' removed in line 1. I didn't insert 'Joe', it just appeared as part of the quote. ??) I think Hangdog may be wrong in his assumption that the controller is governing motor output completely. I recently took a 250w ebike motor to my ebike shop in Melbourne, wanting a throttle controller to replace the (crap) pedalec controller Bafang dumped on me when I picked up an ebike kit order in Suzhou, China. My local ebike shop mechanic bench tested the 250w and 200w motors (both Bafang and 36v) in a fork held in a bench vice, using my early 200w rig's 15A throttle controller and 10Ah Li-ion battery; in common to both wheel tests. The 250w motor, designed as a pedalec EU 250w/25kmh unit, ran at 27kmh (no load) and the 200w at 28kmh. On the road, the 200w seems to manage 4-6kmh better top speed than the 250w, just my impression. The factory supplied dyno chart for this 250w motor shows a 10.4A max power drain, and the controller used for this test is 15A; which the mechanic pointed out is not therefore limiting either motor's capability. To conclude, the max speed is governed by the design of motor, controller and battery working together. The revelation to me is that the motor won't go much over it's designed 25kmh max, purely due to how it's designed. A 20A controller was mentioned as possibly giving more speed, but the mechanic said this would only be inefficient and generate extra heat, not speed. Efficiency is key for range, as we know. So I'm stuck with a 250w EU compliant motor and wheel build costing me around $A400, that pisses me off because it's slower than my original 3y old 200w setup. The 200w rig is going back on the bike, once I sort out another bike I'm up-speccing to Shimano XT drivetrain. The lesson here is that swapping controllers is not a magic bullet for the tight-ass EU 250w/25kmh standard. My legal 200w Jamis Coda Sport 27spd ebike manages approx 32kmh max cruising speed flat/calm pedal-assisted. Way better than the 26.5kmh the 250w motor allows. The 250w motor may also give a lower range, as it's taking more power; although I haven't done a max range ride to test this. The proposed 250w/25kmh national standard is probably here as a reaction to NSW trying to prosecute 'ebikes' a couple of years ago, given NSW RTA dreamed it up. Ebikes don't seem to rate as much of a concern elsewhere around the country. The 25kmh speed limiting is a heavy handed over-reaction by bureaucrats who apparently understand neither ebikes nor climate change. Of course, a few nimby orthodox cyclists love to endorse it so only they can potter on bike paths, in the same way some pedestrian groups want to see the end of cycling on their footpaths. Common sense and respect for others would do better than legislation designed by the ignorant. I could ride my road bike at 38.5kmh for 1km today, so where did they pluck 25kmh max for ebikes from?! Perhaps it's related to the policy makers never talking to existing Australian ebike manufacturers/retailers nor ebikers. Numbnuts! To address this thread's 'What is the point of the motor assistance?'. Of course, it's to level out the hills and neutralise the headwinds, let me travel 35km to arrive fresh and non-perspiring, after a decent workout. It also helps that an ebike moves a person about using 1% of the caloric energy in fuel that it takes with a car. Last edited by alan101 on Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Only a controller limits speed?
I did NOT say that. Try reading the posts for a change. What I said was
Joe Oh, and PS, Hangdog98 didn't write "Joe said" either. You've managed to misquote two people in the one post. Joe Last edited by Joeblake on Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Re: Only a controller limits speed?
I thought the whole point of a "decent workout" was to work ... in other words perspire. How does a motor help you get a "non-perspiring ... decent workout?" Joe To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Re: Only a controller limits speed?
I think ebikes would be great for a longer commute to work. Of course you would arrive in a state that you didn't need a shower and you could wear your work clothes and not need t change. I also think ebikes could easily fit into the existing bike infrastructure, if it got a bit crowded, maybe the A Jones and his screaming heeby jeebies might settle down a bit, Although I doubt that. I'm sure you'd get a bit of a work out too, but maybe to a lesser degree than on a roadie. More people on bikes has got to be a good thing, who gives a toss about their reason? If they get on a bike it's a good result. If ebikes ended up being faster than the average human powered bikes then the ebikers will just have to show the same sense of personal responsibility as other road users and only go a fast as is safe, which is the situation we have now! I just love riding my bike!
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?I am starting to notice quite a few more on the roads here...even in group rides.Not my group rides but the more social cyclotourist groups I see often out and about.Also a lot of ladies use them to go out riding with their stronger cycling husbands (might happen the other way round but I haven't seen it).
Not sure of the exact laws here but kids seem to start riding motorbikes up to 125cc at about the age of 14...they don't have registration plates on them so I expect electric bicycles are not going to be restricted any day soon. Last year I came upon an ebike on a big climb (when I was fit!) and once he knew I was there he tried to drop me...took a while but eventually I exploded.But he seemed to be speed restricted or more likely didn't have a very high top speed as I caught him back on the flats...if they can hold 50kmph happily then they would be great for motor pacing .
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?Joe asked, 'I thought the whole point of a "decent workout" was to work ... in other words perspire. How does a motor help you get a "non-perspiring ... decent workout?"'
Perhaps my rig having 1 less wheel than Joe's and being 14kg lighter doesn't cause me to raise as much of a sweat. Traveling 34km in 1'15" isn't done without cranking hard, so there's definitely a workout involved and perhaps a bit of sweat. Alan
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?
Again, you wander off into the realm of irrelevancy. It's not a matter of whether I raise as much of a sweat or not. You're the one who wants to get a "non-perspiring workout". And you still haven't explained how a motor helps give you a "decent workout". If you're "cranking hard" why do you need any assistance? Joe To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Re: Only a controller limits speed?
I support ebikes. I have mentioned sevreal times indeed that if I could get my wife on one I would gladly do so. Though I do not have your optimism with regard to sensible riding prevailing and so I will have issues with anything that allows all people to achieve higher speeds than the prevailing speed of "average" riders. I would certainly like to be able to arrive somewhere without the need to shower and change clothes every time. On another point, there is too much argument, imho, that e-Bike riders do not do enough work or have not paid some "dues" that others believe they have done to seem a little elitist. I can think of many reasons to ride an ebike. And some that would justify an ebike over a regular bike. Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Re: Only a controller limits speed?
Agreed. A weird argument methinks. Less sedentary than driving a car but hardly a workout. Indeed, in the cbd with distant parking even a driver could claim a workout on a standard that is "arriving" fresh and cool. Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle
Keith Dunstan's ebike uptakeGod there are some pedantic old sods on this thread, with little imagination and buckets of judgement to dispense. Still - bit of spark. Moving on, a 75y ebiker from Sorrento (Vic) sent me this article (unsourced). One man's reason for motor assistance.
Dunstan became a trailblazer for two-wheelers. He approached then sports minister Brian Dixon about setting up a Bicycle Institute of Victoria, then became its first president. He went to see Alan Croxford, boss at the old Board of Works, about bike lanes but had less success. ''The bloody things should be banned from the roads,'' snarled Croxford. Undeterred, Dunstan wrote about the glories of bicycling as often as he could. He rode thousands of kilometres across the US, thousands more at home. Decades passed and Dunstan kept pedalling - but times were a-changing. ''In my 50s,'' he says, ''smart young girls in tight pants were having no trouble passing me on the Yarra Boulevard. In my 60s, small boys would whizz by on little bikes. In my 70s it was no longer a contest - girls in brilliant Spandex were rocketing past with the speed of light.'' Then cyclist Dunstan hit his 80s and - in a warning to the army of Lycra-clad pedal-pushers out there - he has had his moment of truth. ''A group of us were on the Lilydale-Warburton trail,'' he says, ''and little Mount Evelyn was looking like Mount Kosciuszko. I reached the top but the next day my knees were creaking like rusty chain. They were so bad I couldn't ride for three months.'' So the unthinkable has happened. At age 85, this hardy pioneer of Melbourne cycling has sold out. ''I have bought an electric bicycle,'' he says. ''It's a terrible confession. Until now I had nothing but contempt for those things.'' Mind you, it took a couple of days to win him over. He found a seductive silver beast at a cycle shop, powered by a lithium battery. ''It had a range of 50 kilometres, cruising speed of 25 km/h and the salesmen said 50 million Chinese were riding bikes just like it.'' Dunstan's resistance finally snapped when he took it for a test ride and sailed up Wheeler's Hill at 20 km/h. ''A mysterious force took over,'' he reports. ''There was a whirring noise from the motor - which is incredibly small - and I began to sail.'' Now Dunstan is an advocate for powered cycling. ''It folds in 40 seconds and can be slipped into a car boot. And on a warm day you can arrive at your destination smelling like a rose.'' Actually, that raises a question: what happened when he pedalled to work all those years ago? Was there a shower and change of clothes, a la office cyclists of today? ''No,'' confesses Dunstan. ''People just sat a little bit further away.''
Re: Keith Dunstan's ebike uptake
You inspire it in many people. Joe To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Averageness a goal?[quote="ColinOldnCranky"] said, ' I will have issues with anything that allows all people to achieve higher speeds than the prevailing speed of "average" riders'.
Wow, that actually excludes the 50% of riders who go above average speed to counter-balance the 50% riding below average. So I guess road bikes and anything under about 20kg is out then? Not much of a recipe for an exciting life or excellence. Cadel was lucky you weren't his coach. I doubt that Shimano, SRAM or Campagnalo will be hiring you for any advertising campaigns in the near future. Beach Rd (Melb) on the weekend holds little for you. Last edited by alan101 on Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Averageness a goal?
But a great recipe for mayhem, to wit in Perth on 11 August a 15 car crash on a freeway caused by a person travelling at (Read "drivers"). http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/ca ... 6112896530 How is that excellent? Joe To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?Joe, that was a car accident with a person cited as doing about 150kmh. I've been talking about bikes and 250w ebikes, so don't understand why you're quoting me and mentioning a 150kmh car crash. A speed unlimited 250w ebike would manage around 38kmh max pedal-assisted flat/calm, with its weight and wind resistance >30kmh limiting its speed. I do 38kmh every weekend on my (unassisted) road bike, and I'm not in the fast group.
Doing 100kmh on an urban freeway is well above average; due to all the congestion, road works, etc that generally keep speeds well down from the maximum limit during commutes. The Vic Auditor Generals report on bike policy found that 45 mins was something of a maximum time for bike commuters. If you can ebike at 30kmh, compared with 'normal cyclists' doing say 15kmh, then potentially you double the geographic catchment of possible cyclists, I submit. You stand to get more people biking to work or play. Calculating speed requires the use of time, and it's with time efficiency that an ebike can provide benefit. The safest speed strategy is to stay in bed, although there's probably medical conditions that emanate from such an approach. Last edited by alan101 on Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?
It wasn't an "accident". It was a crash caused by one driver travelling at higher speed than the prevailing speed of the other drivers. Sheer stupidity. As for "Doing 100kmh on an urban freeway is well above average" ...???? Say What? That's the speed limit on that section of the freeway. But even if "congestion, road works etc" DID keep the speed down to (say) 60 km/h, and this doofus was driving at 80 km/h, it's STILL a recipe for mayhem. If you read Colin's post (and my quote from it) there is NO reference to "average speed". He wrote about "average rider". Joe To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?@Alan101
I don't know if you are aware of it, but this bulletin board has the facility for displaying time and date when a posting is amended, to prevent (or at least highlight) retrospective alterations to a post. This function seems to come into play after the particular thread has been accessed by another person. I've no difficulty with somebody making an alteration to their post, I've done it myself, to correct a minor spelling error, or alter grammar. I've sometimes done this several months after the initial posting. On this page, I've made an amendment to one of my posts, but in the text I've made a note of a PS - post script. However, just looking simply at this one page, page 5, of this thread, I can see you have retrospectively altered several of your posts AFTER I commented on them, and not simply making grammatical or spelling changes. On 18 August at 11:51 hrs, in the first post on this page, you incorrectly attributed a quote to myself and another member. At 13:59 hours I posted a comment on this matter, including a cut and paste from your original post, containing the text which I was concerned with. One then examines your original post and at the bottom it can be seen that it has been amended (by you) at 16:15 hours. Since you were unable to amend my own post containing the quote from your original post, it can be seen what changes you have made. You've removed this misattribution. However, you've not noted anywhere that you have done so. Secondly, on 19 August, at 10:00 hrs, you posted in respect of a previous posting by another member. At 10:14 I replied to this post, including a cut from your original post. At 15:38 hrs it would seem you have amended your post for a second time, adding the second paragraph concerning "average speed", which alters the meaning of your post considerably. Then at 15:51 hrs you made a further posting which I replied to at 16:06 hrs, including a cut from your original posting. At 19:32 hrs you amended your original posting. Whilst I didn't cut and paste the entirety of your post, I do believe that what changes are shown when comparing my cut and paste to your amended post pretty accurately reflect the changes which you made. I'm not even going to refer to alterations you've made on other pages or in other threads, because I haven't looked for them. Alan101, if you wish to debate topics, please do so in an honest and open manner, rather than sneaking in trying to alter things retrospectively to suit yourself. Not only does this make it difficult to follow the progress of the debate, it does your own credibility no good whatsoever. Joe To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?So I don't see what the problem is with the speed cutout? I mean it only means that the motor assist cuts out at 25kph. The owners of the ebikes can pedal past this speed and sit on 35 like anyone else. That means they can go just as fast on the flat, faster downhill, and faster up hill. Plus, it stops people using them as powered motorbikes. I think it's seriously inspired legislation. Plus it makes us compatible with europe.
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill.
Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day.
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?Hi Comedian et al,
(edited) I agree and think that 25k speed cut out would be fine in a lot of circumstances. It will just encourage types of ebike that are not much heavier than a non-assisted bike. It will also discourage direct drive systems that have regenerative braking potential and therefore some drag to pedalling above the assisted speed. One disadvantage is that I think it will be less likely to encourage people out of their cars and onto bikes. The difference between car and ebike commute times with the 25kph limit would be greater than it would be with the old 200w ungoverned system. I imagine that that difference would be quite significant. Obviously, Alan101 and I agree on this point from our experiences with EVS non-speed limited 200W systems. But I admit that I've not ridden one of the 250W pedalecs so I can't really compare. Also, new entrants into the market after the new legislation is introduced will not know what it was like before with the 200W systems so they will probably not be disappointed. C Scott Sub 40 with 200W, 36v Ezee geared front hub motor
and... Trek Madonne 3.1 driven by left leg and right leg
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?I saw a couple of motorized mtb's on my ride today....I did a loop of 62kms with 2000m of climbing and they must have been on the shorter loops.
We are talking the big rear hub powered systems with giant batteries...I am not sure what those things weigh but they cant be much fun once the battery starts to fade . This wasn't a fire trail ride...it was very hilly loops with lots of single track...quite often muddy and river crossings...not sure how water proof those babies are.
Re: Only a controller limits speed?
Alan101, I've been thinking about your bench test of the 200w vs 250w motor. I've still got a lot to learn about brushless motors and controllers but I suspect that your mistake with that test was using the same controller to power both motors. The 250W controller would be designed to supply greater amps or volts to the motor when compared to the 200W controller. It's not the motor rating per se that determines the speed of rotation. It's the motor's copper wire windings. The motor winding will determine the speed of rotation and the maximum torque at stall with speed being inversely proportional to speed. The correct winding of the motor would then be mated to the correct controller and wheel size to achieve a desired power and speed. - So presumably the 250w motor is wound to rotate slightly slower when supplied with a specific power input. But there's no reason that it couldn't be rated differently. The power rating of the system is determined by the voltage of the battery and the amps supplied by the controller. Increase volts or amps to the 250W motor it will rotate faster. The 250W motor is so rated because it will be able to tolerate a greater amperage than the 200W motor before the insulation resin on the copper windings melts. If I'm wrong, would any electronics gurus be able to correct me? So, repeat a different bench test with both motors: increase voltage and amps supplied to each motor At any given power, the 250w one will probably rotate slower than the 200w one until the 200w one melts then the 250w one will be faster Scott Sub 40 with 200W, 36v Ezee geared front hub motor
and... Trek Madonne 3.1 driven by left leg and right leg
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?There are many factors involved in the "speed" and "power" of an electric motor, including (as you pointed out) the size of the wire itself and the controller. There is also the internal gearing of the motor.
But bench testing a motor is not going to give you much useable data, since another factor to be considered is how the motor is used. The difference of mounting. A hub motor driving the wheel directly, can be mounted (as in my own case) in different sized wheels (16" as opposed to 26") which then gives (with the same motor) different speeds and climbing ability. However, if you mount the motor in such a way that its output goes through the drive train, then that will give a completely different performance picture. The concept of "top speed" is very misleading, since it will be varied on the road by numerous factors. A much more realistic (and useful) figure is the "average" speed over a long distance. This of course requires that the motor be actually installed and ridden on a bicycle. As I've mentioned previously, my two trikes have differing performances in that regard. My "smaller" trike, ie with the 16" wheel, has, over the last week or so returned an average speed of 17.2 km/h, which includes some pretty steep hill climbing. However, the maximum speed of the motor in this configuration is only 16.6 km/h (unassisted by me). The 26" wheel returns a slightly higher speed over the same type of terrain, but the motor maxes out at about 24 km/h. But if it wasn't for the hill climbing, I think the average speed would be MUCH higher, probably about 2-3 km/h quicker, which, when taken over a long distance, means I would get from point A to point B in a shorter time. So the terrain is also a governing factor. My big trike is currently being upgraded, and won't be back on the road for a few weeks, but when it's returns, I'm planning to do some fairly lengthy rides so I can get some up to date figures for you. Joe To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?I am baffled by the desire of so many contributors to the electric bike governance discussions to limit the performance of electric assist bicycles. Maximum speed cutouts, pedalelec restrictions, maximum power etc etc. On the weekend my mate and I went out for an 80km spin on our leg-powered bikes and on the flats we cruised for ages at 50kph with the slight down hill sections allowing 65kph. We got caught and passed by other riders throughout the journey who were faster. Nobody that I saw had an electric motor. We didn't zoom past anyone doing 25kph. Nobody was killed by me or any other speedy cyclists. What is this obsession with restricting the speed of other cyclists?
The speed limit on the cycleways should be at least 50kph, the speed limits on roadways are already established. If Joe Bloggs wants to ride to work on an electric vehicle, and there is a million reasons why this is better than Joe Bloggs driving his Ford Speculum SUV, we should let the nice man ride his bloody electric bike to work. If he breaks a realistic arbitrary speed limit then book him. The only place he is going to pass me is uphill and that's fine by me. If he was in his car he'd still pass me, but with a lot more smoke, congestion, weight and danger for all concerned. Let the nice man ride his bloody electric bike to work. Seriously, more people died last year from masturbation misadventures than electric bike accidents and that hasn't deterred anyone from pursuing Australia's favourite indoor sport. How on earth is anyone going to be coaxed out of their Holden Smegma 7 seater people mover with all this nonsense and regulation. Piddly electric bikes have been available for decades now and the cycleways are still empty. There needs to be a change and the solution is lightweight single person electric vehicles under $2000 which are able to use the seperated paths away from the Toyota Urban Assault Troop carriers, and compete with the other forms of transport. I sometimes wonder if this is all about keeping the cycleways for the Hi Vis vest and pannier brigade at the exclusion of all others. Ruth was stopped on her way to work by the cycleway patrol for travelling at 3kph over the 25kph limit. Now she must pay a $200 fine and sit through 20 hours of bike lane courtesy documentaries before the Cycle-Stasi return her cycling licence and bicycle registration. Bert, pictured left, was fired for not wearing a helmet whilst on a cycleway and for endangering the health budget with reckless unsafetyness in a place not set aside. Ruth sold her bike on eBay and bought the new Hyundai Santorum V6 with satnav and ipod connectivity instead. <end /sarcasm tag> You own a bicycle, not the cycleway.
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?
And supposing you get your wish and the population of e-bikes grows staggeringly? What then? It seems to me that either: There will be such a crowd of bikes on the cycleways that the average speed will be governed more by the speed of slower riders than the power of the motor, increasing commuting times rather than reducing them; or In an effort to avoid the congestion e-bikes will move en masse onto the road where, with this increase in numbers, they will become a hazard to themselves and other road users, with inadequate brakes, tyres, acceleration and power to move smoothly with other traffic, plus having to rely more on the motor, this will reduce their range, which will necessitate bigger batteries, more powerful motors, more efficient brakes etc ... in other words electric motorcycles. To me it would seem more sensible to put the proposed limits in place until there is the infrastructure which will handle your desired population increase, which, as long as cars are around, is unlikely. Joe To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?
Joeblake - I would love to see electric motorbikes become the vehicle of choice on the road though! Unfortunately people don't ride motorcycles on the road for the same reason they don't ride bicycles on the road - they are scared of inattentive car drivers who may hit and kill or cripple them! Xtracycle, Surly Long Haul Trucker, Bike Friday New World Tourist, Giant TCR, 9:zero:7
Re: What is the point of the motor assistance?As much as I love my BMW, when a "good" e-motorcycle comes onto the market, I'll be trading up.
Joe To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
Bertrand Russell Many people feel their lifestyle has a high price, but they're quite cool with that .. as long as somebody ELSE pays the price.
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55 members Latest Activity: Feb 28 Software for sonograms, spectrograms, formants, overtones manipulation. How is important the electronic process in your music?
56 members Latest Activity: Feb 8 There are places with special energies, often anciently used as cult places or for healing. Accupunctural points of our planet. Some of these places…
25 members
Latest Activity: Mar 30, 2013
The Fujara New's Group
48 members Latest Activity: Aug 12, 2014 This group is created in the aim of gathering all peoples the world over to share knowledge, experiences, musical creations with the Jew's harp.
51 members Latest Activity: Nov 20, 2012 The group "Tools for your My Page" primarily is a "miniature-forum" open for everyone having suggestions or questions to this network.
5 members Latest Activity: Apr 12, 2011 Turkish Folk Music Group
5 members Latest Activity: Aug 2, 2012
5 members Latest Activity: Jan 6, 2011 OMN Video Project is a group to call artists and musician of OMN if they wanna be presented with their work in a video clip
11 members Latest Activity: Jun 26, 2009 Česko-Slovenská alikvotně-diskuzní skupina na OMN. ENG: Czecho-Slovakian overtone-discussion group on OMN.
101 members Latest Activity: Feb 18 There are many ways to produce vocal overtones. It depends by the structure of our vocal tract - tongue, cavities, ... - and our sensitiveness. We…
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text: Prev | Next Claire Danes from "Homeland" arrives at the 64th Primetime Emmy Awards at the Nokia Theatre on Sunday, Sept. 23, 2012, in Los Angeles. (Photo by Matt Sayles/Invision/AP) Gallery: Emmy arrivals Sep. 23, 2012 @ 10:28 PM 2012/The Herald-Dispatch Stars began arriving on the red carpet Sunday for the Emmy Awards ceremony. (u'nobuy',)


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PREHEAT oven to 325°F. Beat butter and sugar in large bowl with electric mixer on high speed 3 minutes or until light and fluffy. Combine flour and cornstarch. Gradually add to butter mixture, beating until well blended. Stir in chocolate.
SHAPE dough into ball, then divide into 3 equal pieces. Flatten 1 piece into 4-inch round on baking sheet. Score into 8 wedges with sharp knife. Repeat with remaining dough.
BAKE 30 minutes or until shortbread is set and lightly browned. Cool 5 minutes on baking sheet. Remove to wire racks; cool completely. Cut each round into 8 wedges to serve.


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Michael Chiarello's dishes shouts hooray for the red, white and blue.
For a quick meal or appetizer, try these Easy Chicken-Mushroom Quesadillas.
Using one brick of Cheddar, Dan creates five cheesy party appetizers.
Nadia G whips up a batch of sweet and savory popcorn in an unexpected mix.
You don't have to be Irish to appreciate Bobby's crisp, cheesy hash browns.
Bobby's Portable Waffle Sandwiches are perfect for a grab-and-go brunch.
Dress up canned biscuits with ham and a Cheddar gravy that's great anytime.
Cheesy herbed eggs make a superb filling for Bobby's Black Pepper Popovers.
Get Cooking Channel on your TV.


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Questions to Ask
Whether you're newly diagnosed with chronic myelomonocytic leukemia (CMML) or undergoing treatment the second time around, you'll probably have questions for your oncologist (cancer specialist) and other members of your cancer care team.
You may find it helpful to bring a loved one with you to your doctor's visits for support and to take notes and ask follow-up questions. It's a good idea to prepare questions you'd like to ask when you visit your doctor. You can also record your conversations with your doctor and listen more closely when you get home.
Where to Start
More Helpful Questions
At different stages during your cancer journey, you may have more questions for your cancer care team as well as for health insurers. Download more questions to ask your healthcare providers.


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Take a Summer Vacation from Work Starting With Memorial Day Tuesday, May 20, 2014 — Mike Pugh, Vice President of Marketing, j2 Global The late historian John Hope Franklin, PhD always looked forward to weekends because "to me Friday means I can work for the next two days uninterrupted." Now there's a guy who needed a hobby... Read More
Real Estate Agent Tips: Make Sure Your Fax Solution Has These Three Features Wednesday, May 14, 2014 Imagine you're out for the afternoon showing high-end condos to a new client — a young man, pre-qualified, great income, eager to buy. You're an hour away from your office… when an important fax comes in... Read More
Happy 50th Anniversary to Modern Fax! Monday, May 05, 2014 Not many technologies enjoy a 50th anniversary. Even humankind's true technological marvels, like NASA's Space Shuttle (1981-2011)1, and ubiquitous devices we thought would last forever, like Sony's cassette-playing Walkman (1979-2009) 2, rarely see 35. And today, May 5, 2014, modern fax celebrates 50 years of transmitting information across the globe. Read More
Improve Your Reputation, Bring You Better Talent, and Get You a Tax Break... by Going Green? Tuesday, April 29, 2014 You probably know making your office more eco-friendly can have the added benefit of saving your business money. Reducing paper waste, switching to more efficient energy sources for lighting, air conditioning and other utilities — these moves are good not only for the environment but also for your bottom line. Here are 3 other ways "going green" can be smart for your business... Read More
Here's a Smart Business Move You Can Turn into a Save-the-Planet Game Friday, April 25, 2014 Small business professionals: Ready for a fun challenge? We're guessing yes, because as a successful entrepreneur, you enjoy tackling new challenges. We call it the Save-the-Planet game. When you play it, not only will you help the environment, but you can also save money and even improve your business reputation with your customers. Read More
5 Reasons to Switch to Online Faxing (If Getting Rid of Your Fax Machine Isn't Reason Enough) Tuesday, April 15, 2014 "Fax? Why don't you just send it over on a dinosaur?" — The Michael Scott character on NBC's The Office... You're a modern small-business professional so you always make sure you have your smart phone, Wi-Fi-enabled tablet, cloud storage for mobile access to your files, and fax machine. Really?... Read More
How You Reduce Your Paper Waste Today in 4 Quick and Easy Ways Tuesday, April 08, 2014 Try this riddle: On what holiday is it best not to send or receive a card in the mail? Answer: Earth Day! Why? Because Earth Day, which we just celebrated on April 22, is a day to honor our planet and the environment, not send tree-killing paper-based holiday cards... Read More
5 Easy Ways to Make Your Office More Eco-Friendly Tuesday, April 01, 2014 Earth Day is coming up on April 22 and it's a great reminder for small businesses! Why you ask? Because "going green" perfectly aligns with your business goals to save money, remove clutter and improve your processes. And, we're sharing five ideas for creating a more environmentally friendly office... Read More


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Published since 2000, Subscriber Count: 138,500
Now you can receive Pathway directly on your Yahoo.
Now you can read Pathway RSS Feed in Google's New Beta RSS Online Reader. You can read it online or subscribe by clicking the image on the right. It's Free.
HOT! Pathway To Success Ezine Desktop!
Copyright 2000-2006 ©© theCassiopeia.com All Rights Reserved Worldwide Last revised: |


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Click a swatch below to change colors.
A newer version of the Flash Player is required to enable the zoom feature. Click here to get the current version.
Port & Company® - 50/50 Cotton/Poly T-Shirt with Pocket. PC55P
A reliable choice for comfort, softness and durability. This must-have style is shrink- and wrinkle-resistant for good looks that last.
Due to the nature of 50/50 cotton/polyester neon fabrics, special care must be taken throughout the printing process.
*Please note: Safety Orange is transitioning to ANSI/ISEA 107 compliant product, resulting in darker, deeper coloring. Orders for Safety Orange may contain both shades.
Adult Sizes: S-6XL


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Posted on 3/14/2014 by Paige Donham
Jacob's Joy 5K Family Fun Run/Walk will take place on Saturday, March 22, 2014 at the Tanglewood Park Shelter 2.
The event consists of a 5K, walkers welcome for both. The 5K will begin at 10:30 a.m.
Please direct any questions to firstname.lastname@example.com.
Information provided from SUDC program staff.
The abovementioned event and organization are not affiliated with Forsyth County in any way. It is a separate and independent organization, which is responsible for and manages its own activities and affairs. This event is a contractual agreement between the organization and Forsyth County.
4201 Manor House Circle Clemmons, NC 27012 (336) 703-6400 Park Hours Open Daily 7:00 am - Sunset (Closed Christmas) Mailing Address 4061 Clemmons Road Clemmons, NC 27012


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Top Definition
People that own both an American Harley-Davidson and a Japanese (ie) Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki motorcycle, choosing to ride the American motorcycle primarily and the Japanese in case the other is in the shop.
Walter drove by a friend and I, we were standing next to my friend's Harley...Walter shouted out that my friend should get a real bike. I knew Walter owned a Harley. My friend explained that Walter also owned a Honda...and that, I explained, made Walter a Bi-Cycual...an 'ac/dc' motorcyclist, if you will. We both laughed and laughed.
dari Phil Cloud
Selasa, 20 Mei 2008


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Women's Studies
Use this guide to quickly find reputable sources and save time on your research! Contact your subject librarian or the reference librarians if you need more help. For an overview of how to research efficiently, see Steps of the Research Process.
New in This Guide
Reference Sources
Reference books are great for short overviews and background information. There are also reference resources in our database section.
Use databases for specialized and the most up-to-date information, especially academic (scholarly) sources that are not available for free on the Web. See the Articles & Databases page for a full list of databases available.
Use websites for government information, statistics and current events. It's very important to carefully evaluate websites for accuracy, currency, bias and credibility.
Finding Materials in the Library
Search CityCat to find books, e-books, disks and more. There are many ways to search, such as Title, Author and Keyword.
Books in the library are organized by call number according to the Library of Congress classification system which groups items by subject, so you can often simply browse the shelves. Here are some relevant subjects and their call numbers:
Sexual Life | HQ 12-449 |
The Family. Marriage. Home | HQ503-1064 |
Children. Child development | HQ767.8-792.2 |
Man—woman relationships | HQ801-999 |
Sex role | HQ1075 |
Men | HQ1088-1090.7 |
Women. Feminism | HQ1101-2030.7 |
Working class women | HD6073-8073 |
English literature – Women authors | PR457 |
Women -- Suffrage | JK1896-1911 |


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JVCC CELLO-1PC Cellophane Tape is a pure cellulose transparent tape which is eco-friendly since it is biodegradable. Uses include carton sealing, repairing papers, gift wrapping and other craft projects. The tape is hand-tearable and is often used in the electronics industry since it is also static-free. CELLO-1PC comes on a 1 inch diameter plastic core which is preferred for clean room work. The tape has a yellowish-hue on the roll, but is clear when applied. Cellulose tape also doesn't immediately snap back onto the roll like polypropylene film tape after a section is cut off which makes it easier to grab the next piece.
(1 to 143 rolls)
(144 to 287 rolls)
(288 to 431 rolls)
(>= 432 rolls)
* see individual roll price to left
(1 to 95 rolls)
(96 to 191 rolls)
(192 to 287 rolls)
(>= 288 rolls)
(1 to 71 rolls)
(72 to 143 rolls)
(144 to 215 rolls)
(>= 216 rolls)
Offers the widest range of application flexibility available. Exhibits excellent processing performance whether manually or automatically applied. Has superior tensile strength, adhesion properties and holding force which ensures consistent, reliable seals. Hot melt adhesive will bond faster to a surface which is referred to as quick-grab or quick-stick. It typically has higher tack (will feel stickier to the touch), but is also softer. It has lower heat resistance, shear resistance, and sometimes UV resistance than an acrylic adhesive. NOTE: it is called hot melt because the adhesive is applied hot by the manufacturer and then hardens as it cools (you do not need to apply heat to the tape yourself).
Properties are similar to that of hot melt rubber, but natural rubber often holds where other adhesives won't (recycled fibers, dust, cold, heat and heavy loads). It provides good overall adhesion and moisture resistance.
Offer excellent performance, especially for applications in temperatures less than 40°F and greater then 120°F. It provides excellent clarity, has high shear strength, is usually more permanent/durable even when exposed to moisture, and it ages well over extended periods in fluorescent and sunlight. Since it remains clear for the life of the application and does not yellow over time it is ideal for applications such as sealing white cartons. While it has good initial adhesion it does take 24-48 hours to cure and to achieve its maximum bond strength (has gradual adhesion buildup). Another difference between hot melt rubber and acrylic adhesive is if you fold tape over making the two adhesive sides touch the acrylic adhesive will remain attached to the carrier (e.g. paper, film) while a hot melt adhesive will stick to itself and pull off of the carrier. It is the best choice for clarity, UV resistance and aging characteristics.
Is great for extreme temperature applications since silicone adhesive can work in continuous operating temperatures from -100°F to 500°F. They also exhibit good chemical resistance, retain electrical properties, and remove cleanly with little or no residue.
Zinc oxide based adhesive formula is a skin-friendly adhesive which is commonly used on sports medicine tapes.
Examples: 1/16 inch = 62.5 mils; 1/32 inch = 31.25 mils
Sign up today to be notified of upcoming deals and exclusive offers! Email Address:


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Description:Proliant ML350 G5 I/O system boardSupports Dual-core Intel Xeon 50xx 51xx processorsSupports both SAS and SATA hard drivesSpare Part# 395566-001Assembly Part# 413984-001Note:Replaced by QC/DC motherboardSpare Part# 461081-001
Overview:Compaq is an international motherboards expert. Dedicated in customer service and high technology Compaq has already earned a reputation for quality worldwide. With a long history of commitment in the computer product design and production and a team of highly skilled engineers in the motherboard nowadays Compaq positions itself as the standard setter of price and performance in the manufacturing and marketing of motherboards. Compaq offers a complete line of advanced motherboards to meet the expanding needs of the computer market. Specifications: CategoryProliant ML350 Sub-CategoryIO Board GenerationG5 Part Number395566-001 Products ID459504 Note:For Dual Core Processors only


text: Quickly eliminate pet stains and odor with a "free enzyme" system that attacks odor molecules. Natural, yet powerful, enzymes penetrate to remove stains and odor from your pet and/or his environment. Trigger Spray keeps your home fresh and clean smelling. To use, first blot up the affected area. Then saturate to neutralize acids in urine, feces, vomit, and other organic stains. Leaves no trace of stain on carpet or tile and no odor "scent post" for your pet to return to. Use Power Sprayer for kennel areas. This battery-operated sprayer distributes this powerful formula directly from the bottle - no tired hands from pumping and no hose attachment needed. No rinsing needed. Can be used on carpet, cement, and tile. Safe for use around children and pets. 2 AA batteries included. Not for use on pets. Please click on "More Information" for further details. | ||||||


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Your Hometown Family Funeral Home
We welcome and thank you for taking the time to visit our web site. We take great pride in being a locally owned and family operated funeral home, serving both our friends and neighbors. Our family has over 100 combined years experience in funeral service. We sincerely value the trust and confidence that you place in us. We hope that as you browse through our pages that you will find our site both informative and helpful. If you have any unanswered questions or desire further information, we invite you to contact us at any time. Our dedicated, professional staff is available twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, to meet your needs.
Armstrong - Estherville - Fenton
Graettinger - Swea City
Grieving doesn't always end with the funeral: subscribe to our daily grief support email, designed to help you a little bit every day, by filling out the form below.
Those grieving are in great need of support. If a close friend has recently experienced a loss, fill out the form below to subscribe to our weekly tips and find out how you can be most helpful.
We understand that it is not always possible to pay respects in person, & hope that this small token will help. You can search for your loved one using the form below.
We provide our families with an open door policy. Please feel free to contact us 24 hours a day.
Henry-Olson Funeral Home and Crematory
401 N. 7th Street, P.O. Box 367
Estherville, IA 51334
Henry-Olson Funeral Home and Crematory - Armstrong
506 2nd Ave.,
Armstrong, IA 50514
Henry-Olson Funeral Home and Crematory - Fenton
306 2nd Street,
Fenton, IA 50539
Henry-Olson Funeral Home & Crematory - Graettinger
104 N. Cedar St.,
Graettinger, IA 51342
Henry-Olson Funeral Home & Crematory - Swea City
408 4th Ave. West,
Swea City, IA 50590


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WAC Lighting LEDme Adjustment Square 2" Recessed Trim
Special Offer:
24 Issues of Better Homes and Gardens
Included with purchase ($10 value).
WAC Lighting LEDme Adjustment Square 2" Recessed Trim
Weights & Dimensions
Product Type: Recessed trim | Construction Type: New construction; Remodel |
Insulation Type: IC rated for insulated ceilings | Finish: White |
Primary Material: Metal | Firebox Included: No |
Trim Included: Yes
| Airtight: No |
Sloped Ceiling: No | Bulb Type: LED |
Country of Manufacture: China | Color Temperature (3000K Bulb): 3000 Kelvin |
Color Temperature (4000K Bulb): 4000 Kelvin |
Energy Star Compliant: No | Damp, Dry or Wet Location Listed: Dry |
About the Manufacturer
Celebrating its 21st anniversary in 2005, W.A.C. Lighting has developed a stellar reputation for high quality product lines backed by an extraordinary level of service. W.A.C. Lighting is acknowledged in the industry as a leader in the decorative "quick ship" residential and commercial interior lighting market as evidenced by an unprecedented shipping record (96% of orders shipped within 48 hours) and more than a dozen industry awards for product design and excellence since 1995. A large staff of service professionals, constantly updated product literature and a newly upgraded website where lighting professionals can access catalog information and product details all contribute to the company's continuing promise to provide exceptional sales service.W.A.C. Lighting also offers extensive manufacturing capabilities that meet the high standards of the International Organization for Standardization. Achieving ISO 9001 Certification in the summer of 2000, W.A.C. assures quality performance in product design, development, production, assembly and service.
Innovative world-class designs and state-of-the-art technology are hallmarks of the W.A.C. Lighting product line. Updated with an extensive lineup of product releases for the residential, commercial and specification markets, 2005 introduced a comprehensive low voltage downlighting line (Precision Downlights), a line of specification grade track fixtures that work with the industry standard L, H, and J/J2 track (Precision Spots), and recessed modular fixtures that provide modern lamping, lens, and adjustability options (Precision Modules). These innovations will only continue as WAC Lighting addresses the product and application requests they get from you, their customers.
Affordable pricing, outstanding quality and versatile options are what lighting buyers have come to expect from the W.A.C. line of products. Today's building plans require lighting to illuminate a variety of both simple and hard-to-reach areas while maintaining a visually interesting space. W.A.C.'s family of luminaries accomplish this goal. If a buyer has a broad range of lighting needs, then W.A.C.'s diverse line will meet them. From retrofit to new construction, from state-of-the-art technology to miniaturization, W.A.C. Lighting has passed the test of time.
WAC Lighting LEDme Adjustment Square 2" Recessed Trim
Still have questions about this product? We're here to help
Customer Reviews
5 star | 0 | |
4 star | 1 | |
3 star | 0 | |
2 star | 0 | |
1 star | 0 |
Excellent, high-quality and inconspicuous LED for tight locations Michael from Big Pine Key, FL – Verified Buyer This light provides a bright, focused beam of light and its small trim-size makes it very inconspicuous. The box is a little bigger than you might think but is smaller than other LED units. Pros: High light output, small footprint, adjustable angle Cons: Because of its low power consumption (which is a positive), some dimmers won't work properly with it unless there are a fairly large number of lights on that circuit. |
LEDme Adjustment Square 2" Recessed Trim is also sometimes listed under the following manufacturer numbers: HR-LED252E-C-WT, HR-LED252E-W-WT


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Rio Hamasaki Profile features all her videos and pictures to download @ Idols69.com
videos - 60
pictures - 5367
dvds - 13
These Asian beauties are into all kinds of kinky and hot sex! Innocent and cute these schoolgirls and college students have no problem getting dates. They all like to party and show off their firm tits and round tight asses as they shake it on the dance floor, or on the top of the bar whichever place they are at when the mood hits them to party hearty! Loads of fresh faced fun is waiting for you at idols69.com, it is one of the most happening sites on the web for nubile sexy Asian teens and teen models. Most of the lovely and horny Japanese gems here are ready to go whenever you are! They are definitely into sex and enjoy being the cock teases that they are. Come join the hundreds of thousands of satisfied customers in our exclusive memberships! One quick tour and you too will be enamored with our growing collection of Asian beauties that are here to please and tease! These Japanese lovelies are all charged up to entertain you! Our beautiful dolls are handpicked from the best agencies all over Asia. They are all innocent looking and lovely with some real hot bodies that they are happy to share with you. These girls are avid entertainers and like clubbing and picking up some action on the side too. Taking a friend or two home for the evening isn´t a surprising move for these lovelies! So for the best in nubile young things showing you what they´re made of, come join us for a great time! Remember we frequently update with new and interesting girls in both photos and video! You won´t regret becoming a member of Idols69 an expansive site, and don´t forget the extra surprises! Our Asian beauties are ready to tease and please you in all the ways you can think of!
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Why did you choose this product?
Overll, great product for the price. Provides nice expensive look at a reasonable cost. Easy to assemble. Would suggest purchasing one or 2 additional slates.
Bold, dramatic, and modern, this black queen-sized bed is perfect for your bedroom. With its darkly stained Asian rubberwood finish and the tufted bonded leather upholstery, this bed will become your room's crowning jewel.
- Details
- Shipping & Returns
- Reviews
This Sarajevo queen-size bed features a regal, high-profile tufted headboard and square tapered legs. This bed is upholstered in a beautiful dark brown bonded leather upholstery. Add a striking, modern note to your bedroom with this queen-sized bed. The upholstery is easy-to-clean bonded leather, offering years of beauty with minimal maintenance. The low footboard adds stability without limiting your movement, so you don't wake up with stubbed toes. This elevated frame keeps the room open, but provides enough room for a small amount of storage under the bed if necessary.Sleep in comfort and bring a touch of contemporary style to your bedroom decor with this stunning bed that features a stylish, dramatic design. The Asian rubberwood frame provides sturdy support for your mattress and ensures long-lasting function. This beautiful piece by TRIBECCA HOME includes a headboard, footboard, a set of rails and three slats for easy assembly.
- Included: One (1) headboard, one (1) footboard, one (1) set of rails, three (3) slats
- Material: Asian rubberwood
- Finish: Dark brown
- Upholstery materials: Bonded leather
- Upholstery color: Dark brown
- Headboard height: 46.5 inches
- Footboard height: 9 inches
- Dimensions: 83.85 inches long x 64.96 inches wide x 52.75 inches high
Mattress, box spring and bedding (comforter, sheets, pillows, etc.) are NOT included
Box Springs are required.
Assembly required. This item ships in two (2) boxes.
Features | |
Color | Brown |
Material | Bonded Leather Rubberwood |
Finish | Brown Finish |
Bed Style | Regular Bed Tufted Bed |
Assembly | Assembly Required |
Furniture Pattern | Solid |
Gallery Match | Yes |
Gallery Room | Black Indigo Copenhagen Crandall Cove Edward Estate Greystone |
Dimensions | See product description |
Warranty | 90 day Limited Manufacturer |
Materials | Asian Wood Frame and Bonded Leather |
Model Number | 11885B622W(3A)[BED] |
Customer Reviews
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Good quality for price! Overll, great product for the price. Provides nice expensive look at a reasonable cost. Easy to assemble. Would suggest purchasing one or 2 additional slates.
Read MoreOstkUser24596 Mar 24, 2015 - Helpful 0
- Not Helpful 0
- Flag as Inappropriate
As pictured, very nice This was put together very quickly, arrived before expected and looks as beautiful as the photo! I would reinforce the slats on the bottom, but other than that it's a great purchase!
Read MoreECW3 Nov 6, 2014 - Helpful 0
- Not Helpful 0
- Flag as Inappropriate
Bed looks great, and sturdy. Very satisfied!! Bed arrived in separate boxes. It took around one hour to assemble. I was worried at first that the bed wouldn't look like the picture. This was my first online furniture transaction. I'm glad I went ahead and purchase it. it looks great, and I'm very satisfied!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Read Morejufe Sep 13, 2014 - Helpful 0
- Not Helpful 0
- Flag as Inappropriate
Bad Quality The bed split at the outer base rail after only 3 months of use. It split and revealed the innards consisting of cheap particle board inside the vinyl. It say unused for over a year, so no way to return it or get money back. Waste of***.
Read Morecoderguy Jun 30, 2014 - Helpful 0
- Not Helpful 0
- Flag as Inappropriate
Sexy and Modern Frame Love this bed! Price could not be beat for such a sexy and contemporary look. Excellent quality!
Read Moreybb1 Jun 28, 2014 - Helpful 0
- Not Helpful 0
- Flag as Inappropriate
Very nice bed Very nice bed, exactly what was described. Arrived promptly in two separate boxes (very easy to move). Instructions are fairly easy to read and easy to put together. I got the Queen size and it seems to be about 2 inches longer than my mattress, but it'll work fine for the sheets and to tuck in the blanket and comforter. I decided not to use the feet and have it flat on the floor as a "platform" bed. Since the mattress is 11 inches, its about 4 inches higher than the sides and footboard, which work perfectly. The middle slats are made out of very cheap wood and if you are going to use the feet and prop it from the floor (as its designed) you will definitely either need more slats or a box spring. I didn't use that since i wanted a bed close to the floor, so I didn't care about that. The look is very nice dark faux leather, not quite black but very dark chocolate(ish), it has a dull look, so its not the shiny cheap material look. Its easy to clean and probabbly stain proof. Stitching looks great. Headboard is great to lean up against when reading at night. Headboard legs, sides and footboard are all wrapped in faux leather. Great bed!!
Read Moreheckgar Jun 12, 2011 - Helpful 15
- Not Helpful 0
- Flag as Inappropriate
Great Purchase I read the reviews for the bed and were positive so I made my first big furniture purchase online. I am very pleased with the bed. It is gorgeous. As other reviews have indicated, I did have to purchase additional supports as it only came with 3 slats. I spent $10 on wood at the Hardware store. I am not using a box spring and it working out well. It was also reasonably priced. I have recommended Overstock to all my friends
Read Moremamaoftrips Jun 22, 2011 - Helpful 13
- Not Helpful 0
- Flag as Inappropriate
Lives up the to hype The previous reviewers were raving about the looks of this bed, and they were absolutely right. This bed is gorgeous and very classy. The color matches perfectly to IKEA's black-brown shade if you are looking for complementary furniture. I held my comments about the durability of this bed until after my girlfriend visited for a long weekend. Amazingly (believe me, lol), the bed held strong and seemed untouched. That being said, I'll give you my run-down of the most important things to know before purchasing this bed: -It ships in 2 boxes, A wide one for the headboard and a long one for the 3 sides of the frame. -As expected, there are only 3 slats included. I have a box spring, so I did NOT need to purchase any extra hardware. -I have a thin (I believe 4") box spring, that when placed inside the frame, almost reaches the top. My friend noticed the bed was slightly low but wasn't detrimental to the appearance. A normal box spring brings it a few inches above the frame, and probably looks perfect. -The headboard and the frame are detachable! They lock right in, and detach easily...no unscrewing. -The headboard is very comfy to sit against. It can be somewhat flimsy, but I wouldn't expect much difference among other products. -The bed took me (24, male) 1 hour to make, but was very easy. If you use a power drill, 45 mins tops. Overall, this bed is a steal. The bed is very nice and "masculine" according to a few girls that walked into my room. Overstock is a no-brainer if you're able to get it shipped. The quality for their asking price is close to unmatched. It's no risk to order a bed online...leave it to others to do the research for you. Enjoy!!!
Read Moremcsay Sep 24, 2012 - Helpful 8
- Not Helpful 0
- Flag as Inappropriate
average I ordered this based on the reviews of the same bed in white. I'm guessing the white one has more texture to the fabric. The faux leather on this bed is very smooth therefor in my opinion makes it look faux. Still for the price the bed can't be beat. We did end up getting a box spring. It changes the look of the bed from more contemporary to more classic. I liked it both ways but my husband felt like the bed was too much on the ground w/o the box spring. The bed was fairly easy to assemble however they didn't screw the board that holds the bed completely. So we had to get a drill and drill holes and screw that to the bed. Not a big deal and fairly easy we just don't own a drill. I put the bed together myself except for drilling the new holes that were needed. We live in a condo so knowing the delivery date was a huge positive. You can track it online and see exactly when it was being delivered. It came in 2 boxes that were easy to handle. Overall it is a great bed. My only complaint would be that I wish the faux leather had more texture but for the price I'd buy it again.
Read Moreflygalbecca Mar 18, 2011 - Helpful 7
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Happy I was happy with the Sarajevo Queen bed frame. It fits beautifully in my room and brings a warm classic tone. However, I would recommend getting a box spring. A mattress will not sit comfortably against the 3 wooden slats (unless you purchase more). The mattress will sink through the dead spots in between the slats. I liked the low modern feel and adding the box spring did make the bed appear to be a lot bigger and not so modern (which wasn't my intent). If you like the low modern feel such as I, I would suggest getting a half sized box spring. I will be doing this very soon. Other than that, it's a beautiful piece and absolutely worth every penny. Most people who view it think it's worth at least a thousand dollars. It took two of us to put it together. We did struggle for a bit but it seems when we weren't trying or thinking too logically how to adjust the pieces together, was when (ironically) it locked together just fine like Legos.
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Questions & Answers
Hello, will you guys be getting this bed back in stock in Full size? If s, when?
Hello Tru, items are restocked as they become available; however, we cannot guarantee an item will be restocked. Thank you for shopping with us.
How far is it from the slats to the floor?
Hello Seahawker, the bottom of the slats are about 6 inches from the floor. Thank you for shopping with us.
Can you tell me how much discount on a queen size bed. ..thank you, Sharron Revere. firstname.lastname@example.com
Hi 194, currently this bed is out of stock. We do have a large inventory of queen beds in many lovely styles at great prices. Signing up for Omail is a great way to get discounts coming directly to your email. I have included a link to that sign up for you. Thank you for shopping with us! S.R. http://www.overstock.com/23288/static.html?keywords=omail&searchtype=Header
What is the height of the headboard?
Hello hollywoodstylin, the actual headboard height is 46.5 inches, but the overall height is 52.75 inches high. Thank you for shopping with us.
Hi. I was wondering what the weight of this bed is. Thanks.
Hello cnsescobar, the shipping weight of this bed is 77 pounds. We hope this information helps you. Have a wonderful day!
Hello... I am interested in finding out if the round chrome nightstand in the picture is available on Overstock, and if not, where I might find it. It is the perfect complement to this bedroom set. Thank you!
I do apologize for the inaccurate information previously provided. The nightstand pictured is available on our site. It is item number, 15484488, the Kona Contemporary Chrome Rich Brown Wood-Top Accent Table. Thank you for your inquiry.
can i put Item #: 13731699 on this bed? or is it gonna be too short since its 8" only, will it be ok or should i buy the 11" instead. i dont want to purchase a box spring.
Hello nika12, The sideboard height is 9 inches from the ground, the slat position is 3 inches off the ground. If using an 8 inch mattress, you would have about 2 inches above the frame. This bed, however, is not a platform bed, a mattress and box springs are recommended. Here is a link to platform beds that may work for you. Thank you for shopping with us. http://www.overstock.com/search?keywords=black+leather+platform+beds&SearchType=Header
this one says a box spring is required; when assembled will the box spring be visible or covered by the leather bed frame? Also how high off the floor is this bed?
Hello cporcaro2, Depending on the type of box springs that you use, (width) it may stand just above the leather frame. The height off the floor is approximately 3 inches. Thank you for shopping Overstock.com; let us know if you have any additional questions.
Does this come in black??
Hi clem1996, no unfortunately this is the only color this bed comes in. Here is a link to a similar one in black. Hope this helps! http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Madison-Modern-Queen-Platform-Bed/6358784/product.html
Mine looks black, its beautiful in any color
After about a year. A couple of the little plastic pieces that hold the slats up broke when i moved the bed. Where can I buy replacements?
Thank you for your question. I have had the same thing happen with the plastic pieces. I would recommend that you take the broken piece and go to Lowe's or Home Depot. I don't remember where I got the pieces for myself it has been so long ago (5 years), but there are replacement parts available.
Can I use this bed without a box-spring? Can I just put the mattress to lower the total height?
Thanks for your interest, yes this bed comes with slats so there is no need for a box spring.
If I use a box spring, should that be placed on top of the included slats?
How thick of a mattress is needed for this platform bed?
As in most platform beds any standard size mattress will work.
What mattress and boxspring is shown on this picture? and can i have the link to find it?
Unfortunately we don't have the answer to that.
What are most people using as a BoxSpring? 9" standard or 5" low-profile. I know it's a matter of taste but I don't want to purchase a 5" and end up needing those extra 4 inches...
9" standard
Where can I locate the bedding/comforter?
The bedding shown in this picture does not come with this product. Please feel free to browse our excellent selection of bedding and throws, to find something that meets your needs.
what is the difference between this bed and item #13821540 besides the wording in the description?
I apologize for the confusion these actually two different beds. SKU 13407032 requires a box spring SKU 13821540 is a platform and doesn't require a box spring.
Why is this product (as are several others) categorized as a platform bed, when they clearly are not, as they require additional hardware to be used without a box spring?
You are correct. Without additional slats, you will need a box-spring.
What are the dimensions of the wooden slats that come with the bed? I would like to purchase extra before I receive the bed.
While the exact dimensions of the slats are not given, this is a queen-sized bed frame and those dimensions are: 83.85 inches long x 64.96 inches wide x 52.75 inches high.
Shopping Guides
FAQs about Queen Bed Dimensions
A queen bed suggests the feel of opulence and splendor in its very name. Developed as a roomy alternative to a standard full-size bed, queen beds provide more space for couples to sleep in comfort throughout the night. A queen bed is also a great option for singles over twin- or full-size beds because they provide a larger sleeping area that some people may need to get a sound, restful night's sleep. Look below to find answers to some of the most frequently asked questions about queen bed dimensions.
How to Care for and Maintain Bed Frames
Few pieces of furniture are as important in your home as your bed frames. The bed frames you choose will be the centerpiece of each bedroom in your home. Chances are you have a variety of bed frames in your home, whether you have kids beds, a queen bed frame, king bed frame, full-size bed, twin bed frame, storage bed, loft bed or a few canopy beds. Although there are many different kinds of bed frames, from wood to metal bed frames, none are immune to regular wear and tear over the years. When you buy a bed frame, you probably want it to last a while. Proper maintenance and care of your bed frames will ensure they last for years to come. Here are some tips on how to help extend the shelf life of your bed frames.
Tips on Buying a Queen Comforter Set
One of the simplest ways to change the look of your queen-size bed is to invest in a queen comforter set. A queen comforter set -- which typically includes a queen-size comforter, matching pillows shams and, sometimes, matching throw pillows and a bedskirt -- can give your bedroom a designer look without making you pay a designer price. For tips on choosing the right queen comforter set, keep reading.
Fact Sheet on Sleigh Beds
You can find Sleigh beds in several styles, materials and colors to match any room's decor. Whether you are looking for a king-size sleigh bed, a queen sleigh bed or any other size, you'll have plenty of options to choose from. Known for their regal presence, sleigh beds are an excellent choice for a master bedroom. This style was popular in both the United States and France as early as the 18th century, drawing from influences in ancient Roman architecture. Sleigh beds continue to be popular over 300 years later for their timeless, sophisticated look. As you look around for the right sleigh bed, here are some facts that might help you out.
How to Fit Queen Beds in Small Spaces
Ideal for guest rooms or additional bedrooms, queen beds measure 60 inches wide and 80 inches long. For a couple, a queen bed provides about 30 inches of space per person. Larger and more comfortable than double or full beds, queen beds occupy less space than king beds. This makes them a great choice for bedrooms with space limitations. Knowing how to select queen beds and fit them in small spaces enables you to maximize their potential and your available floor space. Look below to learn how to fit queen beds in small spaces.
How to Decorate with Euro Pillows
Bigger is better when it comes to making a decorating statement, and Euro pillows fit the bill perfectly. These oversized versions of trendy throw pillows are cropping up in stylish homes everywhere because they take your bed from a functional place to a sophisticated space. Euro pillows look best when placed on full, queen or king beds because of their large size. If you're unsure about the placement and use of these fun bedding options, keep reading. This guide will explain how to decorate with Euro pillows.
How to Move King Beds
When you're moving to a new residence, king beds are often some of the last items you want to pack, but moving king beds doesn't have to be an excruciating ordeal. The moving process will be slightly different whether you have platform beds, storage beds, a canopy bed, sleigh bed or another model of king-size bed, but there are a few things you can do to make moving king beds a bit easier. Don't let moving your king-size bed become a hassle; follow these tips to make it as easy as possible.
FAQs about Bed Frames
If you're ready to buy a new bed frame, you might be feeling overwhelmed with choices. There are a few simple questions you can ask yourself to determine which type of bed frame is best for you. Keep reading to find the answers to frequently asked questions about queen bed frames, king bed frames and more
Standard King Beds vs California King Beds
You know you want a bigger bed, but maybe you're not sure if a standard king bed is right for you or if a California king bed is more what you need. Once you know the facts about the similarities and differences between the two bed sizes, then it should be easy to choose the new bed that's perfect for your bedroom. Here are some comparisons that might help you make an informed choice.
Best Styles for Kids' Beds
In your children's room, kids' beds will quickly become the focal point. Considering your child will probably have their bed for years to come, don't just choose any old ratty bed you inherited. Kids' beds come in a variety of styles and sizes to choose from. And when it comes to kids' furniture, their bed will probably undergo the most use. Since your child will probably spend a huge amount of time sleeping in or playing on their bed, why not choose a kids' bed they'll be happy to have in their room over the course of many years. Before you make your decision, here are some of the best beds for kids for you to choose from.
How to Fold a Twin Blanket
Twin blankets are convenient for foldingand are the ideal bedding size for small spaces. Folding a twin blanket is typically a one-person job. With larger queen and king bed covers, two people are needed to fold the blanket properly. Additionally, smaller covers take up less space than larger quilts or other bedding. It is important to fold a twin blanket as soon as the dryer completes its cycle. There will be fewer wrinkles, and the fresh scent will remain longer. Look below to learn how to fold a twin blanket.
Bed Size Fact Sheet
There are few things more inviting than your soft bed at the end of a long day. However, if your bed is not comfortable, then you may not be getting all the sleep you deserve. A good night's sleep can give you energy for your next day's activities and help you be more alert and attentive; on the other hand, you may become sluggish or irritable without enough sleep. If your lack of sleep is affecting your day-to-day activities, it might be time to upgrade your bed to a larger size or a higher quality. Below, you'll learn everything you need to know with a bed size fact sheet.
Twin Beds Checklist
Twin beds are a great way to utilize the sleeping space in any room. Once reserved solely for children's bedrooms, the size of a twin bed makes it ideal for use in small guest rooms, multipurpose rooms or college dorm rooms: anywhere a bed is needed but where space is limited. By making a checklist of the things you'll need, you can put together a twin bed that's as stylish and comfortable as any of its larger cousins. Take a look at this twin beds checklist to ensure you maximize your bed's potential.
Best Reasons to Have a California King Bed
Similar in size to a standard king bed, a California king bed is four inches longer, allowing a lot of extra room top to bottom. A California king bed measures 72 inches wide and 84 inches long, and a standard king mattress measures 76 inches wide and 80 inches long, so while a California king mattress is four inches longer, it is also about four inches thinner than a standard king bed. Making a decision between the two might be difficult. Ultimately, both are great options, but there are a few conditions that might make a California king size bed the clear choice. Before you pick which king mattress is right for you, here are a few of the best reasons to choose a California king bed.
Best Pet Beds for Your Pet
When you bring a new pet home, you'll want to give him a cozy pet bed to curl up in at the end of the day. Pet beds come in different sizes and shapes for different types and sizes of pets. Most popular for dogs and cats, pet beds give you a good way to keep your furry friend from sleeping on your furniture. It's important to choose pet supplies that meet your pet's needs. The pet bed you choose should provide support, security, and comfort for your dog or cat, so choose one that is right for your pet's sleeping habits and for his breed. The following list of pet bed types can help you find the right bed for you and your pet companion.
Comforter Sets vs Bed-in-a-Bag Sets
Comforter sets and bed-in-a-bag sets offer a more practical solution to individual linen purchases, especially when you can't find matching or coordinating items in the sizes needed for your bed. Matched bedding sets like comforter sets and bed-in-a-bag sets are similar in that they offer the basic trappings needed to make your bedroom more attractive, but they differ in a few key ways. This article about comforter sets vs. bed-in-a-bag sets should help you figure out how comforter sets and bed-in-a-bag sets vary.
FAQs about Beds
A bed is one of the most personal and frequently used pieces of furniture in the home. Since you'll spend almost one-third of your life in a bed, it's important to choose one that will provide you with the most comfortable and restful night's sleep. With the many different types of beds available on the market today, what type, size and style of bed should you choose? Before making a decision, take a look below to learn answers to some of the most frequently asked questions about beds.
FAQs about Bed-in-a-bag Sets
A bed-in-a-bag set is a wonderful way to instantly update the look of your bedroom. Available in a wide variety of sizes, fabrics and colors, bed-in-a-bag sets can easily fit into any bedroom decor. Bed-in-a-bag sets also save time and money because everything you need to change the look of your bed can be found in one set, at a fraction of the cost of purchasing individual bedding pieces. Look below for answers to some of the most frequently asked questions about bed-in-a-bag sets.
Best Places to Use a Bunk Bed
Bunk beds are more popular than ever thanks to their usefulness, value and space-saving qualities. They're popping up everywhere, and thanks to their newfound popularity, it's possible to find bunk beds in a huge range of sizes, styles, materials and colors. Of course, the big question about bunk beds is, "Where do they belong?" It's a good question that begs to be answered, and if it's something you've been wondering, wonder no more; this article will help you figure out the best places to use a bunk bed.
How to Pick a Mattress for a Toddler
When your child moves out of her crib and into a toddler bed, the moment can be both exciting and scary for her. However, toddler beds use the same size mattress as cribs, so the transition shouldn't feel too extreme because you can use the familiar mattress that your child has been sleeping on. If you're shopping for new crib mattresses, consider these steps, so you will know how to pick a mattress for a toddler bed that will help your child's new bed feel cozy and secure.
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"Natural" and "Supernatural" are Modern Categories, Not Biblical Ones
When we make distinctions between natural and supernatural activity in Scripture, not only do we push our modern categories into the Bible, but we also limit God's action.
The Resource Finder has powerful filtering features — check out the tutorial to learn more.
When we make distinctions between natural and supernatural activity in Scripture, not only do we push our modern categories into the Bible, but we also limit God's action.
In both form and content, then, Genesis 1 reveals that its basic purposes are religious and theological, not scientific or historical.
Collection of the best articles of the past several weeks on science (and faith) from around the web.
Some of the Christian objections to evolutionary creation come from a misunderstanding of what the Bible means when it says "God created".
When we sit down to read sacred Scripture, we need to develop a rapport with the Bible's various authors and their worldviews. Otherwise, we will unintentionally demand they communicate in the same manner we do.
Although committed to the principle of sola Scriptura, Calvin recognized that the Bible would have been written in terms its original recipients would have understood. Calvin inherited the medieval cosmology of his time, a way of viewing the world heavily influenced by Greek thought and one which was about to receive shocks from astronomers such as Copernicus and Galileo. But not just yet.
In this talk, originally delivered at the BioLogos President's Circle meeting in October 2012, Dr. John Walton discusses the origin stories of Genesis 1-3, and why their focus on function and archetypes mean there is no Biblical narrative of material origins.
Gregg Davidson and Ken Wolgemuth seek to remove the stumbling block of the Genesis flood in this four part series. Though many believe in an ancient world-wide flood, the evidence given does not hold up to geological scrutiny, but points rather to something regional instead. It is their hope that Christians will not walk away from faith in Christ simply because a global flood is not supported by science. Looking at natural phenomena like the Grand Canyon, salt beds, and fossil deposits, they reveal reasons for these deposits and structures while showing that their origin did not stem from a violent flood that covered the planet.
In today's video, Brian McLaren discusses the value of considering Scripture in light of the cultures that surrounded them. The Biblical writers were aware of the myths of the power nations that surrounded them, but flipped their stories on their heads to reveal truth about God.
Pete Shaw highlights the story of Noah to explore how the story would have been understood in ancient times and from there he goes on to explore how we might consider it today.
It is our sincere hope that, above all else, the film can become a focal point for some of the big questions that inevitably arise at the intersection of science and faith.
In this six part series, Brian Godawa takes a closer look at cosmography and its relationship to the Bible. After defining cosmography as a theory that describes features of the heavens and the earth, he relates how his own views about the universe have shifted. He then continues to talk about the Mesopotamian cosmography that is so consistently reflected in Scripture. This view of the universe includes aspects such as the firmament, the pillars, the underworld, the heavens above, the watery abyss. He then explains how one understands these concepts in terms of modern scientific thought.
Cain was a "logical" candidate of sorts because his act was the only truly wicked act recorded in the chapters preceding the flood story. Cain's murder of Abel, therefore, was understood not just an isolated wicked act, but a crucial factor in God's decision to destroy the world in a deluge. One clear example is from the apocryphal book Wisdom of Solomon 10:3-4.
To understand and apply Genesis 1 correctly, we have to consider issues of genre and intention. Too often these chapters are read as if they present a purely straightforward historical and even scientific account of cosmic and human origins.
In these two brief video Conversations, John Walton discusses the problem of trying to integrate ancient scripture with our modern worldview.
Atrahasis is important to biblical scholars because of it similarity to Genesis 2-9. Both stories share a similar storyline: creation, population growth and rebellion, flood. They also share some important details within that storyline.
In this video, John Walton talks about ancient myth and how we might better understand it if we think about its intended functionality—that is, myths were a way to explain a culture's origin and universal significance though they lacked the advances of scientific discovery.
Found among the ruins was a Babylonian creation story referred to today as Enuma Elish. How people viewed Genesis would never be the same again.
In this video Conversation, N.T. Wright emphasizes the importance of understanding the context of biblical texts in order to know whether to read them as literal or metaphorical narratives.
It has been my experience that many Christians have not given sufficient thought to how the Old Testament was composed––that is, to the "human" side of the inspiration of Scripture.


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Tuesday, May 25, 2010
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Explore the help topics, and if you can't find your answer or just want to say 'hi', please email us -- we'd love to help!
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We have the helicopters and the special forces, so why can't we just go get these people? I've never heard a convincing reason. The US *likes* blowing up the families of terrorists and those who house them. It's the strongest deterrent policy available. And going in might get someone caught, and hostage situations are a political nightmare (think Gillad Shallit).
Economist, do you have the guts to do a poll on this question to
show just how many Americans hate and detest the drone campaigns?
bkerin, the use of drones risks the loss of fewer lives and costs far less than a special forces mission to pick up one person.
While you're at doing the poll Please ask if Americans know, hate and detest that FBI and DEA currently use Drones here in America? I Do. Ask them if they are armed? or using infra-red tracking that sees through walls?
Great idea for the poll!


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Leader@SHIP serves as a comprehensive Student Leadership Program under the University Union & Student Activities (CUB) Office that develops students' critical leader/follower capacities through theory-based learning, skill-building, and practical experiences.
Emerging Leaders Institute and Advanced Leaders Institute will be held in either the Fall or Spring Semester.
Campus Life Awards Program will be held at the end April!
Ann WendleAssistant Director for Student Group Services & Leadership Development University Union & Student Activities (CUB)Phone: (717) 477-1560Fax: (717) 477-4035Email: firstname.lastname@example.com
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Spring 2011 Cohort
Spring 2010 Cohort


text: Few domestic animals are easier or more profitable to keep. For example, the average hen will give you over 200 eggs per year! Raise your own chickens and enjoy perfectly fresh eggs or meat. You'll find these books to be excellent resources to keep either layers or broilers profitably. From building coops tailored for your situation, to protecting your flock from marauding predators, these books will give you the expert information you need.


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If you?re seeking some delicious yet somewhat different kind of chocolate chip cookie recipes, then you definitely located the best place. Chocolate chip cookies are the best loved of all the so-called cookies. can be used in Swedish best casino review on the internet finding the deals you want called internet casino and information about last winners in casino games. There are all sorts of chocolate chip cookies, oatmeal chocolate chip cookies, chocolate, chocolate chip cookies, chocolate chip pecan cookies and much more.
When life hits a barrier it feels like we'll be stuck there forever. It's tough to suppose that life are certain to get any benefit. Yet is does and constantly will. The passage through the Bible 'This, too, shall pass', reminds us that it are certain to get better. The state of our lives today will not reflect after that happen in the long run.
The modern day cookie cutter was not created by one individual, but alternatively has evolved after a while. In fact, it is possible to return around 2000 B.C. and find Egyptian ceramic or wooden baking molds that have been employed to bake up biscuits or cakes. Even previously they yearned to get a extra creativity, though pink frosting and rainbow sprinkles remained a ways off!
Cookie dough fundraisers are incredibly profitable since the method is quite simple to market. Cookies please take a lot of time and energy to produce. Many people will buy pre-made cookie dough so that they can enjoy fresh cookies without needing to mix them on their own. Purchasers will probably be thrilled to saving time by purchasing pre-made cookie dough to compliment your school.
At what point in your lifetime did you become so entrenched inside 'But that's the way we've always done it' dumpster? I know there are many of people which sign up to the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" choir, but that saying has one major flaw inside it: what IF it is usually improved start by making a couple of changes? Should you just sit blindly by and relax because you're fearful of the project you'll need to do to modify something? No way!


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