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My Day in Court with CabFiascoGuy
To all of you that have endured our cabinet fiasco drama since March 11, 2005, I thank you so much. You cannot imagine how difficult all of this has been for us.
We had our day in court on Wednesday, October 5th. Then, we had to return on Thursday, October 6th. We're now awaiting the judge's ruling.
To refresh the facts: CFG built an inferior version of cabinets we ordered and made many unauthorized design changes, misordered door profile, made island too large, appliances didn't fit, and shoddy workmanship/painting/wrong color, etc. Bottom-line: he took a check from my hand for $6,000 that I had prepared for him, but never gave to him because he did not finish the install, nor ever returned. I stopped payment on the check for breach of contract. If all was performed per contract, I would have owed him $7,250; which is the amount he file a lien on our property. He never, ever returned to fix anything, and refused to fix anything.
CFG files a $5,000 small claims suit against me. (Why not for the $7,250?)
I file a Motion to Move this from Small Claims Court to Civil Court and file a Counter Claim for the maximum amount of $14,999.99, that I could representing myself.
Judge starts with CabFiascoGuy. He told the Judge his lawyer was supposed to be here and knew the court time but was running late and isn't answering his cell phone; claimed he gave the lawyer a retainer of $1,000.00.
Judge asks for the lawyer's name and phone number and calls the lawyer's office on speaker phone for us all to hear right on the spot. Secretary answers and tells CFG did give a $1,000 retainer for *another* case, not this one! She proceeds with details and they hang up.
CFG says the secretary is confused.
Judge then asked him for the original contract and drawings. He said, "Judge, I have no paperwork. The lawyer kept all of my documents and would not return them to me or answer my phone calls."
Judge hits redial on the phone and called the attorney back on speaker phone. The Attorney had just walked in the door and the secretary put the call through.
The Attorney said something like the $1,000 was for another case. CFG did come to them about our case, but he'd have to pay a $2,500 retainer before they would file some amendments and a continuance; CFG went in to see them and brought some papers; he declined their services and said he'd handle this case pro se." When he left the office, he left his paperwork and would not return to pick it up even though the attorney called him to come back and get this paperwork.
The Judge hangs up the phone. He questioned CFG. But could not understand him. (Listen, this is not racist, but the truth: CFG is Hispanic and speaks perfect English. However, he put on the dog so much with a thick accent. He played the "I'm a poor immigrant and English is a 2nd language" routine. He neglected to say he's lived here since 1972. The Judge told him that if he could not speak English, he would conduct the trial with a Spanish interpreter. CFG then said he'd speak slower or mumbled something.
So, The Judge flat out asked the Attorney if he had a contract with CFG for this case. Attorney said, "No, sir. I have not been employed..." Judge thanked him and hung up. CFG then said, "Judge, he's confused. He owes me my retainer." The Judge said, "I'll let you settle with the Florida Bar your complaints with that attorney."
So, the Judge hesitated to continue to proceed to trial without the original contract....and no original drawings of what he was contracted to build. This is important because we had an amendment to the contract in my handwriting that CFG never fulfilled. I told the Judge I had a scanned copy of the contract, which I had printed in color. Since CFG agreed that was the original contract, we proceeded.
Well, three hours later, after my witnesses and his one witness testified, the Judge said something like, "I want to see that original contract and ALL original drawings with Mrs. Chase's signature by tomorrow. Can you both return at 11 AM?" All agreed.
The first day went for three hours, slowly, because the judge is trying to understand, but is to me I am not persuaded that he is in tune or as understanding about our demise of the kitchen, or seem to understand all of the frustrations with his misordering design elements like the corbels, making the island too big, changing molding, etc. He also made comments that he didn't 'see' what the big deal was about the difference between an arched hood or a rectangle hood. I had to tell him no less than five times, and I kid you not, our contract was based on drawings and he made what he wanted, not what I wanted. I felt like I was on trial because CFG didn't make our design agreement. The hood looks NOTHING LIKE what we agreed for him to make.
At one point our of sheer frustration I could feel the heat rise into my face and tears just stinging my eyes. The Judge was drilling me about the design of the kitchen. I respectfully said something like the design is my business and I hired him to build what I wanted and I don't like what he did. It's not as we agreed and I didn't believe it was open to interpretation. I contracted for three drawer bases and got four drawers and they didn't have the fronts I wanted: two slab and two raised panels. Well, I was so frustrated and the Judge did say to me, "Mrs. Chase, I do get it." But he sure didn't ack like it. I didn't know who was putting on the dog more, the Judge or CFG.
So, we return for Day 2. Cabfiscoguy shows up with a notebook exactly like mine with his documents in clear plastic protective sleeves. This guy recreated all drawings. ALL DRAWINGS. He also forged my initials trying to show what I signed off on. He also had photographs in his portfolio of MY PHOTOS from my website that I made for him to 'see' what was wrong. Many of you all saw that website, too.
The Judge asked me about every initial, clearly NOT mine. I denied all. I never saw any of those photos before. Then I asked about the contract. This was going to be the make or break part of my evidence.
CFG passed this notebook with the contract in it around to me and I reached in to pull it out of the sleeve. He didn't want me to touch it! Well, I told the Judge it's importance is on page two. I needed to see it. Well, you won't believe this: I pull out the contract and it looks aged but it is clearly not the original contract! NO! It is NOT the original contract!!!! I looked at page two and on the bottom, I had written something like, "Please see addendum to this contract on reverse side." NOTHING was there! I turned over the back and tried to read what was written, but it was such a loopy writing, I couldn't even make it out. I clearly had not written it. My 'initials' again appeared on this statement saying I was getting free cabinets but ...?? Couldn't make it out. If you told me right now you'd give me a million bucks for three consecutive words, I couldn't do it.
What should have been there was something like, "I, Sheri C., accept free of charge 6' of base cabinetry, upper shelving 18" deep to ceiling, and floor to ceiling shelving on the adjacent pantry wall as due compensation for CFG misordering the wrong door profile for my cabinetry." Signed my name fully.
I said something like, "Your Honor, this is a very good Xerox copy of the original contract, but this is clearly NOT the original contract, nor is this my handwriting or statement on the back of this document."
Well, for the first time the Judge seemed irritated with CFG. Up until then, I felt like he was handling him with kid gloves as he sat across the table acting like I was the cruel wicked witch of the south as he got tears in his eyes. I did my best to not look at him.
The Judge asked for that contract and looked at it closely. He said it was hard to tell. I reminded him that I gave him a scanned/photographic copy of the original in color print and we all SIGNED IN DIFFERENT INK COLOR, which is representative on the contract. Other than that, they appeared the same. I didn't read every dot and tittles, but my handwritten statements was eliminated off the front and back. His document was all in the same color black 'ink': words and signatures.
The Judged asked in a hard tone,
"CFG. IS this the original contract?" (no answer...only fidgeting)
"CFG! IS THIS the ORIGINAL Contract?" (still no answer)
The Judge asked a third time clearly getting peeved and CFG answered, "It's the only copy I have."
Well, we tied it all up with our closing statements. ALL CFG said to me is, "I'm so sorry Sheri. I tried to give money back but you wouldn't take it. I wish I never take this job. I wish I speak good English." (sheesh)
The Judge said he'd make his ruling by next week.
Departing, CFG turns around and asked the Judge if he wins can he get any more money than the $5,000? The Judge said something like, "No. You cannot inflate the Claim now. The trial is over."
I was so stressed during this entire trial. My husband was there the first day, my sister the second with me. I heard so many lies and literally wanted to just rip them apart, but it was very, VERY difficult for me to only talk to the Judge. I was nervous, only because I know I want justice...and just am not sure how it's going to come out. I didn't mince words and was extremely frank with the Judge. I just don't have any warm fuzzies.
I'm so emotional right now yet, am so glad it's over. I really thought the Judge would rule the same day, but I guess his decision will come by mail. Joy.
I'll post here when I get the ruling. I have to say I can see this going either way.
In my experience in working with trial attorneys, you will often hear about a judge who appears to be leaning too far in the bad guy's direction. Really, it's most often that the judge is giving the bay guy enough rope to hang himself. It sounds to me like you have a judge who was doing just that.
I think you'll be pleased with the decision. But, be prepared for the judge 'splitting the baby' - sometimes jurists will follow the saying that they've done a good job if no one is happy. So you may win, but not as much as you want. But, from your account, I'll think you'll do very well.
You should be very proud of yourself.
Geez. I would have had trouble sitting still listening to that *garbage* from the CFG. Tears in his eyes? OY. I'd leave the courthouse and go somewhere, do a primal scream and punch some pillows! And outright *forgery*! How can you prove that? Can you get a handwriting expert in or something? What garbage.
UGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH. I've heard that nonsense that Tomme's heard too (adjudicate it so that no one's happy). I hope the judge does the right thing.
I just read again what I typed, I misstated this sentence:
"The Judge asked me about every initial, clearly NOT mine. I denied all. I never saw any of those photos before. Then I asked about the contract. This was going to be the make or break part of my evidence."
>>I never saw any of those photos beforeAnyway, thank you so much for your words of encourgement. I just want this lien off our property. I would love to have monies reimbursed, but that would be as remote of a chance as me roping the moon.
My husband got home a few minutes ago and I told him what the Judge's secretary said this morning, which I didn't tell you above. When my husband heard that he did not return with the original contract with my amendment on the back, he said to call the Judge's office and ask if there was any way that the Judge would allow for any supplemental evidence because we would like to pay to have the documents examined by a handwriting analyst. I also stated why this is so important. I left this message on his legal assistant's answering machine. She returned my call in about 30 minutes and she said that the Judge said that the trial is over and he is going to make his ruling shortly. She said that it didn't hurt to offer. I thanked her.
I can also say that there were so many little things that the Judge said and he just let me go on a monologue for some reason. It was like he was baiting me and I bit. One point that sticks out was when he said, (and you know he isn't this stupid), "Tell me why it matters if your paint matches or you have bubbles and what do you call it? Orange peel paint? When I buy a house and the builder gives me a jar of touch up paint for my walls. Why should that be any different than he giving you touch up paint for your cabinets?" He even made another comment before we even got started that he thought we were both nice people but had a misunderstanding. I wanted expensive cabinets for little money. (He underbid the job according to expert witnesses.)
Well, Ladies and Gentlemen, I was torked. I could not believe how insensitive his statements were. First off, I'm not talking about touching up a chip in my car finish. I'm talking about the entire job. Some of the key highlights that come to mind was when I told him that I wasn't buying a Mercedez, I was purchasing a Hyundai. I don't have dove tailed drawers, I have stapled drawers. However, both models follow an industry standard for finishing their paint jobs. It is perfectly resonable to expect a certain level of professional quality for any work you hire someone to do for you. Nothing will change or improve unless you address it.
I continued, I am distressed to hear you compare fixing the finish on cabinets with the simplicity of fixing a mark on your wall. Most any child can use latex paint and a foam paint pad to touch up marks on a wall. It's not every day that you purchase a house or cabinets and you're left with lacquer paint poured into a Niacin bottle and given flammable Paint Thinner left in your home in a 2 liter Coke bottle! Lacquer has to be applied with a spray gun, which most children or adults own, nor know how to operate. There is a level of expertise painting cabinets, cars, and totem poles compared to touching up your walls in your homes.
As for buying these cabinets at any price...If you knew you could buy a Mercedes brand new and save 25%, you'd jump on it in a heart beat. Your Honor would be having a hard time persuading me that you wouldn't jump at the chance to save a few thousand dollars on a big ticket purchase. I don't believe anyone goes to any car lot and expects to pay MSRP. Everyone looks for the deals in life.
At another point he made a comment that he didn't see the need for those windows over my cabinets. I told him gently, and calmly as I could that the entire design of the house, window placement, was not open to interpretation, but was hired out for professionals to execute the plan. The windows, the hood, the cabinets, the finish were part of a plan. I hired CFG to execute part of the plan and he built whatever he wanted to build and ignored the plan. The plan design was MY decision. If Your Honor, CFG or anyone else disagrees with the design plan is not what this case is about. It is all about how he failed to exercise his part of the plan. If I want windows above my cabinets, then I can pay for them. It's my house, not anyone else's. Whether or not anyone likes my plan is their business but doesn't mean a hill of beans. However, CHANGING my plan without authorization is a breach of contract. We had a meeting of the minds with his design drawings and he ignored them. He prostitued my design with his unauthorized changes and ruined my kitchen. What I'm left with is a pathetice attempt at improvisation and I hate it. I look at my hood and I absolutely hate it. I try to not even look at it. So, what I'm left with is doing my best to make chicken salad out of chicken s...s.....uh, bones."
The Judge said, "I got it, I got it."
At another point, he made another statement about CFG that was such a pansy statement. CFG lied, too. Oh..I know. He asked CFG why did he put so many drawers in my cabinets. He said, "He ordered the drawers that way. He called me and say more drawers in cabinets." The Judge said, "Mrs. Chase, did you?"
I responded that I had not. I went back to the contract and that stated that all design changes would be in writing and a $100 additional cost. Please Your Honor, help me to discover when and where I authorized these changes in writing. CFG stated something like he was trusting me and asked the Judge "Why would I donate free drawers? It cost more to buy the slides, boxes, doors, etc."
So, the Judge asked me, "Why would he do this?" I think I just about ran out of calmness on this question. I said something like, "Your Honor, I take responsibility for my mistakes and have pride and honor serving the public, which I did for over 20 years. I cannot explain why some people do not take responsibility for their mistakes. CFG has done nothing to explain to me why he won't fix these. My drawings represent three drawer bases. His drawings are FICTION. His documents with my signatures are FORGED. I resent being put on trial for his negligence. I will happily answer for my actions and reactions, but I'm not a criminal nor pull bait, switch, and sue routines on people! I'm not the first victim he's had. He's pulled this stunt with others. I found my expert witness yesterday by doing research on all of his other court cases. I have copies of them here today if Your Honor would care to explore more fiascos. My expert witness yesterday could have told you about the four cases he prevailed in over CFG, but I didn't bring them up because I didn't want to take up the court's time. However, I was called back here today to witness nothing but fiction, forged documents, and more frustrations.
I think somewhere in here he said, "Thank you." or something. I don't know....it all happened so fast..well, not that fast. It went almost two hours on Day 2.
Like I said...I'm emotional. I'm still unwinding..and I just do not know what will happen. I didn't get tongue tied, that's for sure. I just know that I was so mad at times that I felt like he was provoking me to a point. I can only say that it will be a travesty if we don't at least get this lien released.
Anyway, I will say this, that Judge did let me spill many frustrations and pent up energies. I can't say it helped me. I can say CFG said very little. What he did say were lies.
OHOHOH Love this. He did say, "Judge. I do most excellent work for more important people. Many peopel in Washington, DC, hire me to do their homes. Please look at my work." As he proceeds to show him a 4x6 photo album of his work. Look, I've seen these photos. I've seen the GORGEOUS work his shop has done. I think he lost some employees and he had some fly by nights do my cabinets.
Anyway...thanks again for letting me vent. I'm just typing and sending.
Maybe I can start sleeping again. It's been so very hard....
If you don't remember...
Here is a link that might be useful: CFG left for me to touch up and get trash out of the finish by rubbing paint thinner on a rag over the paint
i bet a woman judge wouldn't of done that to you, women understand the nuances of a kitchen. i was judged a settlement from a judge a few years ago. my sister in law could id a guy and his buddy who took the price lables off of over $200 worth of collectables at my yard sale. i was on a quick errand while she was watching the sale and didn't know the value of the items. she took an offer for $5 and they skipped out. they also skipped town without paying the settlement......you say this guy's from mexico?
It sounds as if you were well prepared and had reasonable answers to the questions you were asked. And the fact that CFG was caught in several lies in the very opening moments of the trial should be telling for the judge. Having to wait for the judgement sounds excruciating. I am sending best wishes that it will go your way.
This is the kind of story that is everyone's worst nightmare when doing any sort of building or remodeling and makes me so thankful for every good experience we've had with people who've worked on our project.
Proudmoma-- That's funny-- my brother;s name is JAmes Vincent!! LMAO
Those of you who live in or around the New Haven area might even be familiar with him-- he seems to make the news alot around there-- He's the state fire marshal down there out of Orange, and one of two that investigate any suspicious fires down that way.
Hey Bill, you just made me think of one of the cases that I read in the court records about CFG here in our county. I called the actual person involved with this case and she told me this whole story. It just let me know how well CFG knows the tricks of the trade. Here goes...
About five years ago, CFG moved here from NY and rented an apartment while he looked for a home to purchase. He did not pay the last two months rent and was being evicted, while he was waiting to close on his home. Well, the manager came to his apartment and he had about an hour worth of work to get the rest of his stuff out of there. She said she'd be back. Well, before she got back, there was a 'grease' fire in the kitchen. CFG came up with some story that he wanted to make a quick fried egg sandwhich or something and it caught on fire. Suspiciously, it burned the kitchen cabinets.
The manager was suing him for his rent of a few thousand dollars. CFG came up with this idea, drop the lawsuit and he would put in new cabinets. They said, no deal. CFG then counter sued them for twice the amount they were seeking saying his stuff was ruined from smoke damage. They got to court and had to go to the court ordered mediation first. The settlement? They both dropped their suits against one another. He kept his credit intact and got out of paying the bill completely.
So, see? When you're full of slime, you slither in it.
Tally Sue, I don't know. I just don't know. I absolutely do not have any inkling or idea what that Judge thinks.
I had to go to the Court House today to turn in my driving school certificate. Sheesh on me. I received an excessive speeding ticket (35 in a 25 mph) back in May. Florida has a program that you can keep off points and insurance rates cannot go up if you take this class, so I did on Saturday.
While at the courthouse, I was on a few other missions. I wanted to get the expungement packet from the criminal law division so we can get the State Attorney to shred all of the documents concerning our domestic quarrel over these cabinets back in April. Remember my son returning from Iraq and my husband just popped his cork over these cabinets turning green from the 2nd painter, then called the police? Well, DH jumped through every hoop that the State Attorney threw for his case to be dropped. It hasn't been pretty, but we can almost laugh about it now.
Then, I went by the Civil Court Division and talked to the head gal there. They were so excited to see me and find out how it all went. They all know the Judge, too. (We have a small town atmosphere here in our county.)
Well, M. gave me a little insight. I told her that I've been thinking all weekend of things I should have said. I asked her if she knew whether or not I could get my contracts back when he made his decision. She said that if they were admitted into evidence, then I could not. She also said that I could get a copy.
She told me when I gave the Judge documents, I should have said something like, "Your Honor, I submit this as evidence...". I did that a couple of times and he stamped what I gave him. At other times, he just took documents but did not stamp them. She said that I might have messed up because he's supposed to consider the evidence. She was surprised he kept some documents. Some he did, some he didn't. I'm thinking we were both novices and he might have laxed the rules a bit. My sister told me that I should have submitted my entire notebook with all documents as evidence. I guarantee you that I will should we get back in his face!
She did say that if this turned out unfavorable for us, then I could request another hearing within 10 days. If I chose to appeal it, then I MUST hire an attorney.
She ALSO said that our Judge is a relatively new judge by only a few years. His reputation is that he is known to be fair, "dots all I's and crosses his T's" kind of guy. She was VERY surprised he did not rule that same day. She was curious as to why he said it would take him over a week to rule, he's not on vacation. She told me that IF he had any more questions, don't be surprised if HE calls for another hearing since it is somewhat complicated.
So, I have nothing solid to add, but to let you know this wait is distracting and tormenting.
I keep thinking of something that I heard whispered in my heart one other time a long time ago....
"Patience, moves God Word faster than any tool of manipulation used by Satan."...by Afflatus
Patience, is doing a mighty work here.
oh, Cup. I wish. This waiting is excruciating. I'll bet my DH and I ask each other, 'what do you think the Judge is going to do?' at least three times each a day! We've gotten to the point that it's just silly.
I keep checking to see if he's posted a Judgment and he hasn't. Our county does everything online, so I can check. It's real time, or a five minute turn around, so when it happens, I'll probably know before I receive something in the mail, which I haven't checked today come to think of it!
My DH keeps asking me the same questions over and over about Day #2. The most important was, "Did the Judge keep the Xeroxed copy that CFG forged your signature and statement upon?" Which, I don't know if he did! My sister was there, too, and we both avoided looking at CFG because it was definitely a denouemeunt moment full of all of the emotion at hand. It was a moment of absolute clarity for me because I perceived, albeit momentarily, that the Judge saw that I've been dealing with a guy that was full of tricks.
There is so much more that I could have told the Judge about a verbal agreement I made with him to build another TV unit on the side, of which I have the drawings, and he canceled our agreement the day after I signed the contract for the cabinets. I had also agreed to do something for him, (build and maintain a website for two years) so we were bartering for services. I didn't want to convolute the case and CFG didn't bring it up either. However, I will bring it up if we have another hearing. I've decided that it's not going to hurt my cause in the least. Why should it? It's just one more thing to show he didn't do what he agreed to do. I have my side in writing, all of my research, the presentation I presented, etc. AND his drawing of what he would build me. You have to keep in mind: this guy's shop has produced some of the finest work I have ever seen. I just haven't seen his good workers the last few times I was there. Maybe they've quit.
Any who...believe me, I'll post here first thing when it comes down either way.
Thank you for remembering this situation. I am just on pins and needles.
sl, I would not mention the side deal with the bartering ; imo, it would remove your credibility on the issue at hand, the judge might wonder what other bartering deals were going on.
Your case is about your contract, not deals going on under the table.
Mitch, I can see both sides of it.
I saw how the Judge seemed to be struggling with the facts concerning the written contract and was trying to figure all of this out and just did not want to add anything else into the mix. It is hard enough to prove a counter-claim even if you have evidence and proof! I can't figure out how anyone proves oral contracts.
However, on face value, right now, I have more proof that an oral contract existed than I have proof that an amendment was added to our original written contract, except for the testimony from CFG's admittance that I did agree to something and then he forged my handwriting and statement on the back. My husband said that it would have been better had he just said that I had never given the original contract back to him Vs going the extra mile and just outright forging the statement on the Xeroxed document and then tried to pass it off as the original contract.
Mitch, you're probably right that I shouldn't say anything else. We most likely won't have another hearing. The Judge is probably so busy with other trials and this case is probably in the 'trivial' pile.
I agree with Mitch that you shouldn't bring up the oral contract issue now. Even though showing a pattern supports your case in some ways, it's a complicated story, it's not really relevant, and, anyway, it's too late now. I think it might undermine your credibility to bring it up as an "afterthought."
As far as the forging of your initials is concerned, I wonder whether you can find, in your records, any old contracts or other legal documents (e.g., for the purchase of your home) where you might have initialed various lines. You might be able to show the judge that your handwriting of your initials looks quite different from that on the forged contract. I don't know whether you would be able to introduce this topic now, but the question of forgery didn't come up until the day of the trial, so maybe a follow-up would be allowed. A handwriting expert might be needed, too.
I really hope none of this will be needed, and you'll get good news very soon! We're all pulling for you!
Hi Sue,
Well, the Judge pulled out the my TRUE "original" copies of the drawings (which had the word 'Final' next to my initials). He specifically asked if those were my initials, which I identified as mine. He said, "OK," then proceeded to check his initials to all of the other drawings that I presented. He didn't give any indication or challenge the difference to CFG.
I also knew he would have my initials on 10 other ticker tapes to 'see' when he reviewed the costs. I submitted a pack of stacked, sorted receipts itemized and broken down for by job and materials for each element that was itemized on the original contract, with all repair receipts tallied with an adding machine tape and the initials of whomever tallied that on the tape. There was a cover sheet with jobs and materials descriptions for ten categories and ten stacks of receipts all with MY INITIALS on them.
My initials are very unique and not easily forged. Someone would have to practice a long time to even come close to forging them. Matter of fact, I have four children that have practiced writing my name for years and nary a one can do it. My oldest is 25 and youngest 12, so they've had years to practice! I've not seen anyone able to write my name or initials like I do, nor forge my name. It just 'ain't gonna' happen' it's that specific and unique.
Plus, I submitted into evidence several letters all with return receipt request cards each filled out with my 'business handwriting' which is just a nice, slanted school perfect cursive, but nothing like my signature or real handwriting. So, the judge had at least three copies of the letters I sent to CFG's attorney, CFG, and BBB all with my handwriting. (I home educated my children for years and have a 'school' or business handwriting I use when addressing envelopes, writing notes to teachers, etc...but always sign with my unique signature.)
Another thought, the Judge now had three letters I authored. One, was first letter of complaints sent to CFG back in March. Two, I submitted a letter to a collection attorney he had hired to collect from me (totally different guy than he told the judge he supposedly hired to show up for our trial). Thirdly, I submitted the Better Business Bureau letter from May, for the Judge to read after our trial; so, he did take those into evidence.
I believe that once those are read, there is no way that anyone could believe that I constructed that fictional farce CFG says I authored on the back of the forged contract that CFG submitted as the original.
This brings me to the next point we wonder about, if I havent already mentioned. CFG actually submitted his forged copy of the contract as the original. WHY we came back the 2nd Day, to see the "original drawings and contract". Well, CFG was smug as a bug in a rug until I pointed out that it was not the original. Once pointedly questioned he dodged answering yes or no, which to me, let him get away with a Clintonian answer, "It's the only one I have." He admits no guilt or fault. Yet, I DID point out that the back was forged. The Judge made no mention of 'forged' or anything like that. Only I did.
So, since I didn't subpoena that contract prior to court, which I learned that I could have...and I didn't see the Judge stamp that contract, nor know if he still has it, then I'm concerned that we could be SOL, if you know the expression. I just don't know what happened to that contract that he had because I just did not want to look at CFG because part of me wanted to laugh and shriek, but the courtroom part of me kept very quiet after I made the obvious known. My sister said that she knows he gave it to CFG to hold and look at and I could hear the shaking of the paper, but she can't even recall who ended up with the contract in the end.
The Judge knew from the beginning and remembered from pretrial that I had issue about the addendum and CFG hadn't fulfilled our mediated agreement for his misordering those door profiles. So, I'm hoping he doesn't forget these critical details.
BTW, I mentioned it in another post recently but will recap here. These doggone maple doors he ordered that I hate: well, I had to reorder the drawer fronts and some doors through a contractor that does not do cabinets and did not get a discount. So, for him to order 34 doors and drawers cost me almost exactly $2,000 from the cabinet company that they originally came from. I saw the shipping/order receipt. I know exactly what was paid for them. WELL, when CFG showed his list to the judge of what he actually paid ...(let's see...I now have 84 and he ordered those 14 drawer fronts too many,) so total, he ordered 98 doors and drawer fronts FOR $2,000! He got this huge discount, assuming for high volume sales, and had he just done the right thing, I wouldn't have spent so damn much money on stripping these doors, which by the way are NOT DONE being stripped. THAT JERK could have just ordered me ALL new doors with the profile I wanted for the SAME MONEY.
As my husband said, "That chap$ fanny."
PS>>trying to follow this myself, there is NO WAY I'm going to bring up that other TV unit and web page mess unless CFG does.
Sheri, I see that the judge has plenty of handwriting samples already (you were VERY thorough!), and you did state in court that the initials on the supposedly "original" contract were not yours (and implied, if not stated, that they were forged). So even if CFG held onto that document, you've got it on the record that you consider the document not to be authentic. If the judge doesn't have that document in the official evidence, he's probably already discounted it (and probably understands that it was "doctored up"). So I think all of that is in your favor. If you need to appeal the decision, you can subpoena that contract then. But I really think the judge sees through all of CFG's deceptions.
Hang in there!
My DH has called home three times. We're just sick about this waiting. I have so much to do and don't want to do anything because I want to see if it's posted online as soon as it happens.
I had to hang onto this other house we lived in while we built this one for an additional six months. My cabinets should have been done in February, but he delivered them March 11, 2205, and they were not completely installed then. We've had nothing but delays, loss some subs because they had other jobs, and so on. There's a point...what is it? Dog I feel so scatterbrained right now.........Oh. Don't ask me how I sold that house about a month ago, but I did. Just threw a sign up in the yard! Anyway, we're supposed to close on it Friday. I need to run over there and do a once over just to make sure it's looks good, shiny, all cabinets are really empty, etc.
I feel my heartburn acting up. This drama is so inhibiting. Believe me, I'll post as soon as I know something definitive. I check every hour or so! I really feel silly, but I'm so anxious I can't stand it.
We had court last Wednesday, so it's been over a week now! It is just unnerving and is starting to make me think he's going to make us do this all over. Do you think he'd make us do this over? I know the lady in the Civil filing department said he could request another rehearing. If he does, then I want to call another witness...the guy that did our modifications. Our contract included installing the doors when they were finished, but since the doors are not finished, he hasn't been paid $366 of the contract; and he's a bit peeved about it. I withheld a small amount to make sure he returned to install those doors, which is customary. I had receipts and invoices, so I didn't call him as a witness, but probably should have.
I could, however, who would she have to ask but the Judge & Jury Combo Man directly! Uh...I won't do that. I don't want the judge to know I'm *that* impatient. Truly, I believe it's wise to wait until he makes a decision. I don't want to catapult him into frustrations. This is already too frustrating for all of us.
I was literally popping up and down in the chair next to him a few times during the trial and 'highly excited' at some of the things CFG was saying. I sat directly on the Judge's right and CFG to his left. I told my sister that my DH kept kicking me underneath the table a few times because I just didn't let those broad thoughts of the Judge go unchallenged. My husband has a military background...retired LTC and really buckles and sweats around those in authority. ESPECIALLY one he stood in front of with leg shackles on when we had the disagreement over these cabinets. Well, my sister said she almost slid out of the chair trying to kick, me, too! Why? Because she said I was bouncing up and down on the chair and it was nauseating her! Sigh. I recognized that I was doing that at some point and held on to the table. This was not a normal leather chair. It felt new and bouncy for lack of a better description.
My clientele over the years has been nothing but professionals from every walk of life. Mainly law, legal, medical, pilots, realtors, teachers, professors, judges, etc....and I **KNOW** Judges are people, too.
FYI: A little tidbit about Judges that I know. This is a true story. Our 13 year old son was adopted at birth from my brother's out of wedlock/marriage relationship. We lived in Alabama and the baby was born here in Jacksonville, Florida. We tried to hire a local attorney, especially since I had so many that were my clients. When we found out the adoption laws, there are all of these rules saying you can't transport a baby across state lines with the intent to adopt. I talked to four lawyer/client/friends and two judges: ALL OF THEM ADVISED ME TO JUST GET THE BABY AND BRING IT BACK TO ALABAMA AND DEAL WITH IT ON THIS END.
The lawyers all wanted $20,000 to do this paperwork for me to adopt. One of the guys was very close to our family. He told me that each PAGE filed in court cost $5.00, so the price added up quickly. I flat out told him that was a crock because I had just filed adoption paperwork for my DH to adopt my older two children and it was a flat $20/fee per child, no matter how many pages were filed. I didn't trust any of them after that!
Well, ALL of them advised me to break the law to adopt the baby. Had I followed their advice, I could have really lost the baby if DCS got involved. They all also told me NOT to call the DCS in Florida, because if they knew the mother was going to put up the baby for adoption, then I could really lose out.
I was so scared. Then I heard whispered in my ear, "This fear is not from God."
Well, I prayed about it and called DCS in Tallahassee and told her the whole story. She asked me if we were Florida residents, since my DH was active duty military? Could we prove it with voters ID, Driver's License, and LES statement (pay): I said, "YES!" She said that since I was a first degree blood relative to the child, then we could do a private adoption with no home study, we just had to prove financialy we could afford the child to the courts.
I called a lawyer that I had used for a land deal here in Jax and he had a new partner that only did adoptions. I talked to him and he did the adoption from soup to nuts for $1,100.
So, I see everyone as an individual and just don't get all worked up about status. We all wipe our fannies in the same direction, if we're smart. I am respectful, but just not a suck up. =0]
There's a point telling you this. I'm just so tired...Oh, back to this trial Judge: seemed affected by my bouyant excitement and kept advising me to calm down. (What he meant was be still!) I was biting at the bit a few times and had to hold myself back. The chair I was sitting in felt like a spring-board and it didn't take much to bounce up and down. My sister had to agree when I said I felt like her dog when she puts her in flea dip and felt like running around all excited and yelping! I am so easy to read...like a book when I'm worked up. I wasn't concerned about CFG. I wasn't expecting the mental challenges from the Judge. Does any of this make sense?
SO...I don't know. I felt out of my element dealing with a liar and not being able to say "liar, shyster, crook, etc". I just can't stand the lies that poured out of that guy's mouth...and it seemed that all of our conversation was being reduced to 'he said, she said' which isn't good, either.
I'm over analyzing all of this, I know. Right now, I'm thinking he'll post something by Friday, so neither one of us can call him until next week. So, we'll see.
SL, Sounds like you presented your facts well. The cabinet maker sounds like he bungled and got caught on some imp. elements: lying to the judge about the existence/non-existence of an attny., appearing WITHOUT his contract first time around, appearing with forged documents the second time around. Doesn't look good: it doesn't matter if he appears to be an immigrant w or w/o english skills; lying to the judge is lying to the judge in any language.
Only thing is that you get that contract back whatever you have to do!
Good luck to you with the ruling. Here's hoping the Judge puts a safe end to this horrible saga.
Thanks Mindstorm and Cup. I'm hoping the obvious isn't obscurred in any way when the Judge judges!
As for recording everything. Well? My DH reminded me that when we went to pretrial in the Judge's chambers, we were told that it was all being recorded and that we would only be in there for five minutes or so to get a court date and declare representation (or something like that). There was a camera right behind the Judge in the corner of the ceiling facing the table, but no blinking light like it was recording. ...
We were in the Judge's chambers for pretrial about 45 minutes. Mainly because the Judge remembered me from our 7:45 AM arraignment for my husband when he was arrested back in April.
Just to recap: the morning my husband was arrested, he asked me 'what brought on our domestic quarrel?' I told him that we were acting as our own general contractor building our home and hired two shysters. This cabinet maker has caused us great grief and we're having to have our cabinets stripped and repainted and my husband just lost his patience with the whole process.' Well, the Judge said something like, "If you were rooked, then sue the guy and have your day in court." SO..this is the SAME JUDGE.
OK...we go to pretrial, then court ordered mediation, then the Judge's chambers when mediation failed. The Judge said flat out as he was making our trial date, "I can't stand this!" He turned to CFG and said, "Mr. CFG, I'm sure you have a contract and you need to bring that when you come to court. But right now, I want to hear Mrs. C's side of the story." So, I got to go on for about 10~15 minutes about our situation. He questioned me pointedly and flat out told us what we had to do, how to tally costs up, and what to bring to court. He then told CFG that he had better hire an attorney. He advised both of us, but I told the Judge that our contract didn't include attorney fees and I'm in the hole financially, and he's suing us for $5,000 instead of the full amount. Lawyers want $5,000 retainer plus costs and I'll never see that $5K again. So, we'll be acting pro se (as our own attorney) at this point."
So, I know there was a camera in the Judge's chamber during the trial. I just can't imagine that they taped all 5.5 hours. Then again, they could have. My DH thinks they probably did and he could review what was said. I just don't know. So, I do know that it was just us in the room: no court reporter.
" Is there a maximum time frame that the judge must post his verdict?"
Cup, I don't know. He said it would be this week, so tomorrow is the last business day of the week. I'm believing he's a man of his word, so we should surely know something by tomorrow.
If either of us wants a rehearing, the Judge needs to be notified within 10 days of his judgment. If it's flat out appealed, then an attorney must do it.
I can't take this waiting. I'm out of patience. I was also reading the back of our case sheet giving us the rules, etc. I guess I didn't read it before and I don't know why. I could have paid to have a court reporter! It will be extremely difficult to prove that he lied without a transcript; or for either party to appeal without a transcript.
I'm getting very nervous now. It all is going to rest on the Judge's memory.
OK, Ladies & Gents: no news.
I was at the courthouse today filing some paperwork because I was selling a house and talked with all kinds of people. The Judge on our case is swamped because another Judge was killed when he fell off his tractor something awhile back. So, it apparently is not uncommon for these kinds of dual suits (Claim Vs Counter-Claim).
I also heard of some stories where this Judge issued Judgment after trial and arrest warrants went out for people that had falsified a contract. Not the same situation, but oh, so, similar. It apparently shocked the parties when they were arrested like a month after court.
So, anything is possible.
Believe me. I'll keep you posted.
"So, it apparently is not uncommon for these kinds of dual suits (Claim Vs Counter-Claim)."
That was about as clear as mud above. I was trying to post before I took my son to a football game.
I meant to add that the delay is not uncommon considering that this is really two suits to settle: his small claim against me for $5,000 and my counter claim in civil court for $14,999.99. The same judge hears both cases.
In our county, apparently they're short a county judge and a circuit judge, so "my judge" is having to wear all kinds of hats hearing these cases. I was advised that I could be waiting for some time.
When we were at the closing today, the owner of the title company told me she had a case in civil court a couple of years ago before this other judge died. She was building a house and gave the land clearer directions to the lot and it turned out she gave the wrong directions and the land clearer cleared someone else's lot (in a subdivision). She was sued by the builder that owned mistakenly cleared lot for removing his trees. He wanted money. The Judge ruled in her favor because she improved the value of his lot by removing all of the pine trees and underbrush...AND she had put in over 40 loads of fill dirt. She said that it took almost a month before the judgment came down.
Well, I can't wait that long! I do not believe I can do it. Please tell me it won't take a month. Have any of you had any cases before?
I thought I hadn't had a case before until my husband reminded me about a tenant we had about 15 years ago. She sued us for a deposit, but we just showed photos of the damage she caused in our house and the carpet we had to replace and the judge ruled in our favor. It was so fast a case that I completely forgot about it!..and we did win.
Any ideas?
OH>>>I was definitely advised by the guy in the recording department to NOT TO CALL the judge's office about this at all. He said I should wait the judge out. He also said the same that I've heard before: that this judge is a p's and q's kind of a guy and sticks to the books. He is a maximum penalty judge and doesn't mess around with crooks.
He has a reputation apparently since he worked in this county for years in the State Attorney's office prosecuting all kinds of cases. So we shall just have to see.
Oh, Sunday morning and I just found this thread and read the whole thing! I remember when this was happening, because I was still finishing up on my kitchen at that time, and of course obsessively reading the forum daily. Now I'm working on the bathroom and pass by here on the way to that forum, ha-ha.
Just this week my employer, a fine older gentleman, finally got judgement on his case which took YEARS counting all the attorney interactions before it went to a judge! It was for his kitchen remodel, which included an addition and french doors to an outside eating area/flagstone patio - a big high-end job started about 5 years ago. The work was substandard from the start and, to make a very long story short, he just got the ruling this week and he won!
The remodeling company has to pay him $60K plus these years of attorney fees etc. The owner of the construction co. has to pay an additional $60K (pluse attorney fees) for personally directing the placement of an improper lien on the home.
It was a glorious day for me too after following the attorney's documents all these years. The kitchen/patio still needs additional repair work done and this was a long ordeal for an older gentleman who said "it's the principle of the matter, he is not going to get away with this" and he stuck to it paying huge fees to his excellent attorney with faith that truth would prevail.
I believe truth will prevail in your case as well.
Wow,Lauren! It is wonderful to hear when justice prevails. Just so satisfying!!!
Lauren, reading your post made me think of something else. This past week, I was going over this sheet that the judge's secretary gave us with our court date. On the back of this sheet it had 'rules' for court. You know, I scanned these rules, but nothing really seemed important at the time other than we needed to bring to court our documents, expert witnesses, etc.
Well, re reading it, what stands out? A statement that we had the right to PAY in ADVANCE before three days of our court date IF we wanted a RECORD of STATEMENTS FROM a court recorder. I didn't recall that statement. (Have I already written this above? If so, I'm sorry.) So, we're wondering if we're just having to rely on the Judge's memory? So, there is no legal record of our trial. None.
Also, our lame contract did not cover attorney expenses should their be a disagreement. So we're $OL.
AND...there was an additional point made on the back of this 'sheet': IF we do not use a court reporter, then an appeal is as good as denied if requested. Very few cases win on appeal if there is not a court record of the trial on file.
In my opinion, our trial is again reduced to he said, she said. However, I do have my husband as a witness, and even his one witness testified to the fact that from Day 1 I was having a fit over my cabinets, the hood, and everything being installed unlevel. The judge asked CFG's witness (a cabinet maker sub that CFG hired to make my pantry and children's study counter, "When the cabinet's were installed unlevel, why did you continue the install and then install the crown molding in the cabinets? Wouldn't you consider that unprofessional?" (or something like that) The installer said, "She had a good eye. CFG just wanted out of there. OK, I put my 1' level up there and she could see that it was only off 1/8" and we couldn't believe she could see it. An 1/8" is not that big of a deal. Then we put a 4' level up there and it was about the same."
My response was when we put an 8' level up there: OH, MY GOODNESS, what did it show then? About 3/4" just on one section! The bubble would have busted out of the glass if it showed the truth."
Well, on a 22' wall, it's a very big deal. Every 8', you're off 1"x22'= 2.75" off or higher on one side of the kitchen to the other side on a long run of cabinets!
If I were hanging wall paper and my plumb line wasn't straight and I'm off 1/8" the first strip of paper and go around the room like this, what a doggone mess that would be!
Oh Sheri! That sub, my goodness, let's hope he learned a lesson that day. And I know that you have "a good eye" but that dismissive statement makes it sound like your standards are just unrealistically high, that asking for level cabinets is simply unreasonable. It's all about manipulating the truth. So disgusting.
I called the lady in the civil department today. She said "there's some movement" on our case. She had to send some stuff over to the next county for something to be investigated and researched. The 'next county' over is Duval. She wasn't sure exactly what or who is doing this "research" but someone is.
I'm thrilled. CFG has several similar cabinet fiasco court cases on the books there where he's not won a single case. There are inflated, fictious billing documents, photographs in the file, and the Judge's notes. I know, because I've gone to read every case to see what I was up against.
Other than that, I have no other news. I just checked online and the case is still "active" and nothing came in the mail. So...we wait.
This waiting is driving me nuts. I am having a hard time focusing. It seems the longer the judge is taking, the more likely we're going to end up back in court. I do not want to wait any longer. I hate this. I don't feel as though I can finish my cabinets yet because I may need these doors for trial again, should it come to that.
I called the civil department again today and there is still no word. I have NOT called the Judge's office: won't do that unless I have to.
I'm sorry for whining. It's about the only **thing** I can do right now.
Sheri, I check in periodically to see what's happening with your case. I know it seems safe to ''assume'', but please don't. You're driving yourself to distraction. (I know, easy for me to say!) If he's a good judge, he's just doing his homework, and homework takes time. I just wanted to encourage you to be patient and remember....Good Things Come to Those Who Wait. I waited an extraordinarily long time for my kitchen to come to fruition; two architects and an extremely dysfunctioinal cabinet company much, much later. In the end, it was fine, since it turned out better in the long run for having done so. There may be a silver lining in all of this you're just not aware of yet!
Oh Sheri! Waiting is so hard! But this experience is truly carving you into someone with more depth and compassion and wisdom than you probably ever imagined you could have. And I know there was so much of all those qualities to begin with, Sheri, now there's even more. The word patience comes from a Latin word meaning suffering. You and your family have suffered so very much. I'm sure that the judge recognizes that fact. But please, in a constructive way that doesn't harm you, prepare for the worst. It might be helpful for you and your DH to sit with each other and make a list of every possible legal outcome and on the paper decide how you as a couple will deal with each scenario financially, emotionally, and spiritually. Write it all down, and put it in a suitably sized envelope, and then address the envelope to God. Because it's in His hands anyway. And no matter what, you and your DH can handle whatever the outcome is in this case. Regardless of the decision, truth is on your side.
Sheri, I've been following your fiasco, and just found discussions... so just got the whole story. I know that the waiting is near impossible, but this guy is really something else, and I think the judge must know that. It is so frustrating to watch someone just lie, and know they are lying, and know the judge can't really know.
But you do have his history in your favor, and it does sound like the judge knows that. Any way, as Cup says, it is in God's hands, and he is the ultimate judge.
I hope the earthly judge evaluates all your evidence properly and you see an even bigger judgement in your favor and that's what is taking so long!
Patience, patience....
Hi Sheri,
I just finished catching up on your on-going issues with CFG..OMG, could this GET any more stressful for you? I'm so sorry that this continues to be a problem.
I'm hoping that your CFG may have filed one too many liens, and this is going to be his Waterloo. I don't know if you'll see any money out of it, but I'm putting my money on a victory for you.
Good luck, I'll keep my fingers crossed! (((Hugs)))
Hi Sheri
I was just checking in too - thinking that for SURE you would have heard by now - WOW - they are taking their time with the decision - it must be so hard for you.
It sounds like you were totally prepared and presented your case in a professional manner -
Thinking about you and crossing my fingers for you too.
Thank you so much for all of your wonderful words of encouragement here and privately. I wish some of you accepted private emails because I've wanted to write to you that have supported me for so long! =)
Meskauskas, being a history buff, I love your Waterloo analogy. I just hope the Judge really 'sees' the bigger picture and somehow snatches that nasty, litigious streak he has because this is his modus operandi dealing with his bait, switch, sue routine. Wouldn't it be something to be surprised by the Judge? I feel like Jeremiah or David in Scriptures: I want to *see* the look on his face if the Judge slams him. (Actually, that's a sick thought, isn't it?)
Don't know if I mentioned this or not. But I've been consulting with this other guy that ended up in court with CFG. Well, they got to the actual trial and CFG did not show up, claiming he thought he had a continuance. (How? He didn't hire an attorney there, either!) Anyway, "Z" won, got a judgment, and collected.) "Z" told me that this case/trial was so stressful on he and his wife that he almost divorced. He said that he is also Hispanic and told the judge that this guy was a crook and not to believe his claim that he didn't understand English.
Want to know how dumb I was? I thought, 'well, he speaks fine, he won't be able to pull that with the judge.' Can you believe I actually didn't *think* that this guy would put on a show, lie, fake the entire language thing. I heard Z's story, but I still didn't *see* that coming.
Oh, well...back to waiting. =]
I've been following the case of your awful cabinets for some time and wanted to wish you well. I hope you're still functioning well enough to be a good mom and wife and go about your daily life while you wait and wait and wait, and that you hear a positive result soon.
I called yesterday afternoon and everything is still with the Judge.
I never expected to be 28 days overdue when I delivered my first child; nor have I expected to have to wait 21 days since our court and still have no ruling.
On one hand, I feel the fool for representing myself since I found out the State Statute for the 'Rules of Evidence, Witnesses,...'. I didn't know there were such rules. I naively believed that if I were to present my side of the case, with evidence, and witnesses then it should be a pretty clear line to draw in the sand. Especially, since the 'sand' was in writing. I never expected CFG to alter the contract or drawings, then forge my handwriting on the contract addendum and initials approving all drawings.
On the other hand, after looking up the state statutes by accident (I was looking for 'forgery cases' and found the Statutes), and read several cases of fraud, forgery, and lying from contractors and lawyers, I do know Judges fine offenders and revoke licenses. CFG is not licensed.
I was also very surprised, as many of you have pointed out to me in your private emails, the detail involved quoting statute and precedents to qualify a judge's rulings. It takes a lot of time to research findings.
If the Judge is taking his time in this manner, then I am fully persuaded to be thankful. I just hope my evidence stands the test and is enough to get a favorable ruling. It would be amazing if the judge could make him finish my kitchen for me. I want my kitchen done and not have to do it myself.
I got a phone call from a friend yesterday that started building her house AFTER we had this mess with our kitchen. Her cabinets went in yesterday and are done. It's depressing knowing that I have to finish these and I don't want to. I am really struggling with motivation. It's so hard to know that this has just sucked so much time from me and CFG is going to get off Scott free. I 'sense' it. Even if I win, I'm not going to be able to collect unless this judge can pull a rabbit out of his hat. CFG sat there and told the judge, 'The Court can't do ennyting to me 'cuz I'm incorporated.'
CFG was so smug and it was though he paid a $255 filing fee to take me to court just so he could see me spin my wheels and put on a show; knowing he would have no consequence.
Think about it for a minute. CFG didn't come to court with drawings or a contract. Why? He had nothing to lose. He's operating under a new business name with a partner and I can't collect from his old business if I win.
I think it was a HUGE surprise to CFG when the Judge called his attorney that first day in front over everyone.
I think it was a huge surprise to CFG when the Judge made us come back the second day for the sole purpose of seeing that original contract and original drawings.
I also think it was a HUGE surprise to CFG when I pointed out that the 'original contract' was NOT the original and the addendum forged; as well as pointing out that my initials were forged.
Honestly, it's hard to imagine what the Judge can do to CFG; it's not like he is a lawyer and has anything to lose. If it takes the Judge twice as long to figure out a way he can yank CFG's chain, it will all be worth it at the end of the day. I'm depending on the Judge to be diligent.
I'm not very good at waiting. The waiting and anger over this whole mess is so drained. I've never felt such a mess mentally. I'm avoiding finishing because the rest of my house is still not pulled together. My niece and sister were here yesterday to get their hair done (which takes up time). My niece, home from college due to the hurricane, was aghast at my kitchen. She said, 'It's so messy.' Well, it's not messy. It's not DONE! I have no cabinet doors and I won't until I go finish stripping and painting them. I'm telling you, it just shows-to-go-you how I feel: nothing looks clean or organized without having doors on cabinets. I don't know how you ladies do it with glass doors. It drives me ever-lovin' nuts to see everything in my cabinets at once.
Thanks for listening and waiting with me.
SL- your kitchen IS beautiful. And it will be over one day! I agree with fisheggs... your counter is divine, and I think your backsplash is great! what is that beautiful thing (mosaic?) behind your range! I know it's hard not to focus on the stuff that screams fiasco! but your kitchen is truly gorgeous! And will be wonderful soon.
I continue to pray that the judge sees the truth, and that CFG gets the full punishment he deserves, and that you are able to recieve the compensation you need from him to make it right.
Bizzo and Fisheggs are right - your counters are beautiful, and you'll soon have your doors and drawers done.
I have this little trick I do whenever I have something to do that I really am not looking forward to doing. Each time I finish some part of what it is I'm doing, I tell myself "Thank goodness I don't have to do THAT now - it's done". It's silly I guess, but it's my way of reminding myself that each little thing I do gets me a little closer to finishing.
Keep your chin up hon - it can't take that much longer, and I hope you get the satisfaction of seeing that jerk charged with something criminal like fraud, or whatever.
At this point, after all you've been through, I'd pay money to see him hauled off in handcuffs myself.
Can you believe it? Over 3 and a 1/2 weeks and no word yet. I got home too late to call the civil department and the Civil Case Management part of the county website is not working. I don't see any court papers file under our name either, so I'm making a strong assumption that no ruling has come down yet.
Believe me, after I hear something you'll be one of the first people I'll let know what happens no matter what the outcome.
One month ago today we went to court. Still, no ruling.
I called the Judge's Judicial Assistant yesterday to 'see' if the Judge has made a ruling. She said he still has it on his desk and "he's working on it" and she would mention it to him. I told her I didn't want to irritate him, but I was hoping for a resolution by now. She said it wouldn't make him mad. So we shall see.
If I were you I would stop calling for now. Even if the clerk says it isn't bothering the judge, it still might be. Thirty days isn't long at all to wait for a judgment, ime. The amount of time in which they need to make a decision is dictated by state statute, but it's usually much longer than 30 days.
skatiero: I check online at least four times a day just to see if anything's been posted. They **know** I'm waiting for a ruling. I am just hoping the Judge is doing what he can to help us and not just lame carte blanche answer like, "Both of you go your own way and pay each other nothing."
I'm anxious too! I keep checking this thread every day to see if there is an update. What frustrates me and I'm SURE is frustrating you is not how long it is taking, but that you were told you would get the ruling the next week. Stuff like that really bugs me. If they had just told you it would take a month, or two, or whatever, you'd probably be a lot more relaxed right now. Argh.
Thanks everyone. There's no telling what's going on. I just wish I knew. I did call this afternoon to the small claims office just to 'see' where the file is now. It's still with the Judge. I am not calling his office any time soon.
If the Judge goes over every single item on all of my receipts he's going to go bonkers. I had a stack of them, too. Everything was laid out as the judge requested: itemized per our contract agreement and what it cost to fix and who fixed what. It cost more to fix than what I contracted to build from scratch! All of the numbers were sorted, added up with a ticker tape, of course, but it was a mind altering state even for me to deal with them.
Knowing what I know now, we would have been much better off just ripping out ALL of the cabinets and started over with someone else, then sued him for ALL of our money back.
I can't find online the time limit in FL that a judge has to make his decision. I did find some other states that have their limits posted: 90 days is a popular number.
We're down 35 days, or FIVE very long weeks have gone by so far. And wait some more. I can't stand this. I wish I had fasted until a ruling came. I could have lost some serious weight by now! ;0)
"Knowing what I know now, we would have been much better off just ripping out ALL of the cabinets and started over with someone else, then sued him for ALL of our money back."
But you had no way of knowing that at the time. When you suffer damages you are required to attempt to minimize the losses. It is reasonable to assume that repairing cabinets would cost less than replacing them. In fact, if you had replaced them, I am sure the contractor would have claimed that it wasn't necessary and the actual "damages" were much less. In hindsight, you may not have done the right thing in terms of damages, but I would say you did the right thing in terms of how it is perceived.
"In hindsight, you may not have done the right thing in terms of damages, but I would say you did the right thing in terms of how it is perceived."
Thank you, Sue. In my wildest dreams, or nightmare, would I have ever thunk that it would have cost this much or come to this. I talked to so many people that could have helped me but once they saw the paint issues and knew we were headed for court they all actually conveyed/said variations of, "I don't want to get involved with a lawsuit in any way. I can't afford to do business with you. I'm so sorry. I wish I could help you." No one wanted to get involved with the entire project. I had to piecemeal out each area and not tell the 'whole story' to each trades person. I wish I had explained this part better in court. It took MONTHS to find anyone to even start the modifications so I could get my granite. It's a wonder they (fabricator/slab yard) held my three slabs of it thinking back on it...even knowing I paid extra dolleros to hold my slabs. I had my slabs in January and didn't use them til JUNE!
Thanks again for support. I *think* I'm in the right, but in actuality and legally, we'll just have to see at the end of the day. What sometimes seems 'right' isn't always the case, as I've learned.
Ya'll try to have a good day. I'll wait til closer to 4:15 PM to check again. =0] Silly, isn't this?
Not silly at all SheriLynn. It's your kitchen. For all of us whose kitchen it isn't and are still checking in on you every day (like me)... well that's not silly (really) either. We've come to care about you and your situation, and with so many prayers going forward we know the right thing will happen. (so now I'm praying that it happens sooner rather than later so you can get some closure!)
Katie! I love the guitar! I also enjoyed watching the CMA's tonight. You're photos brought me a huge smile tonight. Atlanta is going to LOVE YOU! How could the not like the horses and guitar? You'll feel at home before too long. Just give people a chance to *know* you!
I use to live in Anniston, AL, for about 10 years or so. Anniston is about 80 miles due west off I-20 from Atlanta and 60 miles east of Birmingham. I can tell you, Anniston would love you. You need to send some of your cards or photos of your work to the newspaper and hospitals there. My former clients would hire you to do all kinds of work! I *know* it! I can't believe you're making me miss Anniston right now. Sniff...sniff.
As for closure on my case. I think this is bordering on ridiculousness. I hope the judge's not just avoiding us. I asked my husband tonight if he thought the judge was delaying because I possibly made him mad? (Nothing specific happened, but who knows?)
DH said, "Who knows? But I don't think so. I think he's really going to try to help us."
We have *NO* reason to believe this other than having a gullible faith in the system. This judge was so hard for us to read. We just cannot tell which way he'll rule. We may not have done everything right, but we certainly showed more honest faith in the contractor and integrity than CabFiascoGuy's shown towards us.
Side Bar: Since this court fiasco, I've found myself drawn to watch a few of the 'judge shows'. Judge Alex is more like 'our judge'. It's funny that real court is nothing like what you see on TV.
Hi there, Sheri!
I've been away from the forum for a couple weeks because our computer crashed and we had to replace it. (You've no idea how detached from the world you feel when you're used to "connecting" with forum friends every day! I've missed you all!) My DH finally set up the new computer and installed software last night. Your thread is the first thing I've looked at on the KF--I was SURE that there'd be a decision by now. :-(
Hang in there!
Thank you, Sue. I was SURE that there would've been a decision by now, too! However, life is stranger than fiction sometimes.
I've nothing new to report. Same song, different week. We're over six weeks and waiting. And waiting. And waiting.
My mother came down with a horrible case of pueumnoia this week and is in the hospital. She had just been given a clean bill of health so she could have a hip replacement last week. She ate dinner at our house on Monday night, then was running 103.9 F on Tuesday.
Life is busy now, so the time is passing.
For those of you that are experienced dealing with the courts, I have a question for you. Do you think I should just keep waiting for a ruling? What would you do if you were me?
Thanks for listening. Have a great weekend.
Sheri, I would look up the statute in your state to see how long they can take to decide. Then I would wait, and then send a letter to the clerk when the ruling is due.
I'm a trial attorney. I wouldn't call the judge (or the clerk) until the deadline for a decision because it will just start to annoy him. He knows you're waiting, but for whatever reason, he isn't ready yet. It's frustrating, but not at all atypical. I have a motion to strike that's been pending for 3 months now, with no word at all.
Hang in there.
Thanks, Paige. I've tried to look up the deadline for Florida and can't find it. I have found other state's deadlines. The clerk's office doesn't know the answer to this question either.
You must have the patience of a saint to keep focused and move forward.
What seriously concerns moi, is the seemingly extreme spanse of time between a trial/hearing and ruling; and with so many other trials/life/etceteras in between would make for a strong possibility that some facts may ignored or forgotten. This is the concern I have in a convoluted case such as ours.
Thanks again for answering my question. I hope whatever you are wanting stricken is 'unrung', so to speak.
Well, we're over seven weeks since court and STILL no ruling. This is ridiculous.
My daughter was in her Federal Government class last week at the local college and guess who was their guest lecturer? Our judge.
DD found him to be engaging, intriguing, and was persuaded to continue to pursue law. She's now the newest member of the judge's fan club. Since the "jury is still out" with our case, I can't climb on his support board. He has to prove to me that he does his homework. DD is convinced he'll be *fair* with us. We'll see.... Knowing she, too, has my gullible streak is also a big concern.
I do have to admit that while I was cooking yesterday, it occured to me that he has time to be a "guest speaker", but not time to "rule" in our case. This is somewhat of a petty irritant to me knowing it's been over seven weeks now!
Hi Sheri,
I'm so sorry to hear that your'e still waiting for a decision. How frustrating! If it may serve as a small consolation, I'm the assistant to a general manager, and often accept bookings for speaking engagements for him months in advance. It may well be that he had the lecture on his calendar even before your trial date.
That was my first thought too. He should have stayed back and completed his ruling before going out and guest speaking. In fact, no movies, no tv, no naps, no NOTHING until he makes that ruling! LOL
I can't believe you are stiiiiiiiill waiting!! Have you called recently?
Maybe Mr. Judge reads Garden Web and is just totally amused at all of these impatient ladies!
I've heard nothing from the judge's office or CFG himself. The ladies down in the office where you file small claim and civil lawsuits want me to call back to the judge's office. They can't believe that it's taking him this long to rule either. They're wondering if he's forgotten about this case.
Wow, I found this thread a few hours ago and in between household duties have read it in it's entirety. I couldn't wait to get to the end and see what the outcome was. I was even tempted to peek, but feeling a positive ending, I didn't want to ruin the surprise.
Well the surprise is this is still going on. Oh I feel for you. I hope it all works out in your favor. My hubby is a retired LTC also, and we are old enough that at this point in our lives we have eaten alot of Crow. It really takes something pushing us beyond our limits that finally force us to fight for what is right.
I hope this ends positively for you soon.
Sheri, don't bug the judge.
if you have plans to be out of town during the holiday season, it wouldn't be out of line to drop him a BRIEF note advising him that you will be out of town X date to Y date and if he needs any information from you during that time you can be reached at the following cell #...
A diplomatic, legitimate and non-threatening way to nudge the judge, IMHO.
AAAAGH! Just got back from a trip and rushed to see hwat was going on. STILL no word????!!!! Just read your kind words, too-- you are a doll!
Scotland, would love to get any ideas on finding folks who'd like murals or pet or house or family portraits in the Atlanta area!
Travel plan? Only back and forth to the hospital. Hopefully, my mother comes home tomorrow.
I called yesterday: no word from the man. What a pain in the fanny. I've said it hundreds of times before: THIS IS Ridiculous!
Thank you for your encouragement. I am starting to believe he's just avoiding to rule.
Sheri - I just read the thread. You poor thing! My husband is an attorney. Unfortunately, you have to sit it out and wait, no matter how frustrating. Someone else mentioned that judges tend to lean over backwards for pro pers. It sounds like that is what happened here. You never know how a judge will rule, but I really think you'll be okay. I didn't even know the "conversations" forum existed. I'll be checking in daily to see how it goes for you.
I think this is long enough of a wait. It doesn't look good for either one of us at this point, imho. Can you believe that on January 5th, less than a month away, it will be a full year since I gave my first deposit to CabFiasco jerk for these cabinets. I can't finish until this trial is over. I am just sick that my kitchen looks so DISGUSTING ALL THROUGH the holidays. Thanksgiving was at my sister's home. Christmas was to be here. Not now!!!
skatiero: you ask, "Why do you think it doesn't look good for either one of you?"
I think that if it were so cut and dried for our case, then the judge would have ruled soon, like he said in the beginning. If he was for the plaintiff, then he would have ruled for him. I just don't know. I don't like to go on 'feelings', but they are 'there'. I am still reactionary.
I am still so irritated and can go from zero to 90 mph talking about these cabinets. I hate feeling this way. I think I probably will as long as I don't have them finished.
I had to have the service guy come check out my range yesterday. I had to once again "explain" why my kitchen is not completed. It's embarrassing to say the least. Telling someone that is working in your home 'why' I don't have cabinet doors is so disgusting and not FAIR! I'm just so doggone p.o.'d at everyone right now. I cannot tell you how depressing this has been for all of us. I have to keep calm because my DH can still go into a lather over all of this fast, too. I can't seem to focus on much else. It's like the heaviest burden glaring in my face and weighing us down. I don't want to have anyone over. It's HIDEOUS. Imagine every cabinet in your kitchen and master Br without doors. I'm just sick of it.
Thanks for listening. Maybe now I can get something done today.
Sheri, I am speculating but I wonder if the reason it is taking so long is because CFG lied in court and provided forged documents. By forging documents he committed a crime. It may no longer a simple case of breach of contract. Remember, he also lied about hiring an attorney for the case. I wouldn't read too much into the delay. I think that this is really a complicated case and there are lots of aspects that need to be untangled by the judge (the forged documents, the lien, his license, the fact he changed companies, etc). I think the judge is just trying to be careful.
Were you actually told by the judge that you were not to do anything to the kitchen until the case is over? Mary
jerzeegirl: you ask, "Were you actually told by the judge that you were not to do anything to the kitchen until the case is over? Mary"
Well, Mary, the judge said that once he rules there could be an appeal. If there is an appeal, then we would have to basically do this again. I would have to have my evidence (my doors), which is a huge part of this. See, I had my doors repainted and that paint failed (turned green) because the doors were not primed to start with from the first guy who provided me a sample door and board showing primer, paint, and paint technique he was going to apply to my cabinets. The oils soaked into the substrate and were trapped by the subsequent oil based paint applications causing a "green blush".
My "best" examples of the paint failing is on doors that I need to refinish. So, I asked the judge if I should wait to finish the doors, and I can't remember exactly what he said, but he affirmed that I should wait til he ruled. My DH can't remember exactly what was said either, but we left thinking I should wait. My sister thinks we should wait, too.
It's been so long now. I do know that CFG called the Judge's office this week for the first time to find the status of our case. The judicial assistant told me this just a few minutes ago. I called her to see if there had been any movement or if there was any more information that the judge may need from me. It's Christmas, my kitchen is still not done and this is a frustrating wait. She is about as mum as they come. I'm to the point, I don't care if anyone else is irritated with my phone call.
Mary, thanks for reminding me about the other aspects. If you remember them, I hope the judge remembers them.
Sheri, I truly applaud your patience! I am appalled at how long you have waited. I am no attorney so I don't know what the rules are but I'm curious why the judge can't rule from evidence presented in photographs or from a sample door or from a videotape. Also, even if you repaint the doors, the design will *still* differ from the original plan no matter how many times you paint it. I agree that it isn't wise to tick off the judge, but it isn't the judge who has to live in the mess.
So...is there an attorney that you have worked with in the past who can advise you whether there is something you can do to move this thing along? Maybe there's something you can do that you don't even know about (that an attorney's advice can help you with).
It just sounds unduly punitive for a judge to insist that you keep your kitchen unfinished for this length of time (or even worse through the appeal - which I think you can count on if CFG loses since it's not really costing him anything to show up in court).
Also, just out of curiosity, was he within his rights to place the lien on your house when he did? Did he provide you with a Notice to Owner and all that good stuff that Florida requires?
jerzeegirl, you asked,"Also, just out of curiosity, was he within his rights to place the lien on your house when he did? Did he provide you with a Notice to Owner and all that good stuff that Florida requires?"
We acted as the General Contractor to build our custom retirement home. Notice to Owners are given to the owner by anyone that I contracted with that used supplies or services from another person or company not employed by whom I originally had contracted for a specific job. So, CFG did not have to give me a notice to owner.
(FYI: We overpaid our electrician by $4,000! Our contract was for $12,000. When I took over finishing the house when DH went back to work, I caught the error. DH was so busy he just cut the electrician a check whenever he asked for a draw, not realizing that we were being over billed! After I reconciled all receipts, I told my husband and we brought it to the electrician's attention. He had billed us three times for our outlets. Electrician was miffed! I refused to pay him any more even though he was not done with our job. He split with his partner over our house and left a $1,200 bill to the supply house that he never paid. The supply house had also served us with a Notice to Owner when the electrician got the first items for our house. They then had every right to file a lien when the electrician did not pay them. We had to pay off the supply bill to clear the lien. When I'm done with CFG, I'm going after the electrician now. They also told the supply house we never paid them a penny and I have this libelous statement in writing. I don't want to take them to court, but if I don't, you may hire these quacks and they'll do it again. Anyway, this is just an example of how Notice to Owners works.)
As for time limits for liens in our county: CFG waited until the very last day to file a lien on our property. The lawyers (2) that I counseled with both advised to 'wait out the lien process' to see if he would be the aggressor. One lawyer has gone up against this same guy six times. This lawyer said if he knows that I'm peeved and will want to sue him, (I am), then he'll probably wait til the last day and drag this fiasco out as long as possible. CFG had 90 days from the last day that he put foot on my property to file a lien; then 60 days to from that date to file a lawsuit, or his lien would have been null and void since I filed a contest of lien. Had I NOT filed the contest of lien, then his lien would have been in effect for one year or until he filed suit. Had I not filed the contest of lien, then he would have probably won by default. As it is, we are in a very complicated contest here.
I could not find ONE single company that would fix his mistakes. I had to piece meal out the job and it is very complicated set of receipts and facts. I submitted everything in as concise and simplified order as I could and everything itemized by the job. As it ended, I had hired about eight different people to do ten different jobs all pertaining to fixing my cabinets in my kitchen, master bedroom, and bathroom.
I even submitted evidence of interest, payments, receipts for payments, checks, and even an additional $18,000 loan I had to take out to pay to just finish this errors and installation fixes, time off from work, and miscellaneous expenses all documented. (i.e., sending six return receipt letters to CFG and his attorney.)
If he was going to make me jump through this hoop, then I documented it ALL. It was organized and concise. There are a few more points I would have liked to have made in court, but I was just worn out and tired from the lack of sleep. The anxiety of it all just overwhelmed me. Today, I know I could have presented the case better. I just assumed the judge would ask more questions instead of letting me/us ask the questions. To me, the facts spoke volumes. But then again, I don't know how the judge perceived the situation.
Part of me thinks that he is just letting time pass for him to make me think that he pondered everything with consideration. A slap on the wrist is what I thought he was going to do to CFG in the beginning. I think I made it perfectly clear that a slap is not what I'm after.
I can't remember exactly what the judge said that made me think this was how he was thinking, but on day two, before CFG showed his forged contract, the judge made some comment like he thought we both were nice but had a misunderstanding. I was shocked! I know there is no law against shoddy workmanship, but to completely change doors and a design? PUHLEEZE!!! I remember asking the judge something like, "Well, if he is not responsible for the end product, then why even bother with drawings or a contract? Our contract was based on drawings and words! Why bother with even going to a custom cabinet maker? Do you honestly think I contracted with someone for them to make whatever version of cabinets that HE wanted? Do you honestly think I gave him a $5,000 deposit in good faith and signed the contract almost two weeks later because the drawings were frivoulous and irrelevant? If they were irrelevant, then why are we here today to see the contract and drawings that I agreed upon? If you believe the contract words are of no importance and the drawings insignificant, then I think I should just leave, because I feel like I am being screwed twice, to be quite base and blunt with you, your Honor. I know these are not your cabinets, but I was counting on you to put yourself in my place when I came to court. I don't think your wife would have stood for any of these shenanigans for one second."
The judge and I had a dead pan lock of eyes and some funny blinking towards me for a few minutes. I wanted the judge to see that I was dealing with a shyster and this was not some "misunderstanding". It was AFTER I said that was when day two of testimony really started. I'm just thankful that CFG showed a bit of his cunning ways to the judge. He's a slithering liar. I hope he gets a mouthful of the yuck he's served us.
I don't sound very nice re-reading this, but what happened, happened.
Sheri - totally missed your calling by not becoming an attorney. I NEVER would have been able to get the eloquence and clarity out of my mouth like you did. It sounds like you surprised the judge with the way you handled things.
I am praying for a ruling before Christmas!
snookums: If you had put out all of the money that we've put out and gone through all of the headache, time, and mess of having your cabinets *fixed*, somewhat, then you would have not sputtered, but GUSHED forth your pent up irritance with it all. Words would have been fluid and forceful. There's no way timidity would have entered the judge's chambers with this much invested in this fiasco. No way. I don't think anyone could harness the insufferable anger that you feel when someone not only does $hoddy work, but then has the audacity to SUE you out of manipulation and intimidation thinking that you will shrink because they *called the law on you* to protect their sham! It's a travesty of justice! It's intolerable and can cause you to absolutely see red....no, white. I think seeing white is worse than seeing red. I have never, ever been this irritated with any individual in my entire life. I have absolutely no use for him whatsoever. I don't think I have ever turned my back on any individual in my life, but I did in the court house. He forced me to address him. He's threatened me with another court action: libel suit should he when this case. I must win.
Sheri~I've been following your saga and am keeping my fingers crossed that the judge finds in your favor. I believe you didn't get what you bargained for and know you don't deserve what this man (term loosely used) has put you & your family through. That said (big sigh), justice is not always fair, in fact, at times it's ludicrous. Just know, whatever the decision that you played fair and with good intent-I hope you hear good news soon!
Hi Sheri,
I'm so sorry that your'e still having to wait for a decision - I really thought you'd have heard by now!
FYI - the next 3-4 weeks are a very popular vacation time for executives and managers. Their busy calendars often don't allow for much vacation earlier in the year and they are encouraged to either take it all before the end of the year, or start it in 2005 and carry over to 2006. If you don't hear anything this week, I'd call his office and find out what his holiday vacation schedule is. If he's going to be out for the next 4 weeks, knowing that might allow you all to put it in the back of your minds and enjoy your holidays more. It sure would be great to get that darned decision this week though!
Sheri - I've been keeping up with this post and just wanted to give a few words of encouragement. You have had a terrible injustice done to you, and I am hoping for a good judgement in your favor. Many years ago I had filed a labor dispute claim (and of course, I had the truth on my side - a powerful weapon) and it took MONTHS for the decision to arrive. Take heart, try not to lose faith. I am hoping you have an answer before the holidays, so you can actually enjoy them and start the new year without this hanging over your head! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. Kait
Kait, thank you.
Patience is doing it's work here. I feel like I'm having a baby with this wait...right up to the part of not knowing what's going to come out at the end of this deal! =]
I so appreciate the words of encouragement and thank you for 'waiting' with me. I cannot tell you how even one email actually is like a balm that truly can calm frayed nerves. Thank you for taking the time to write.
On Friday, I called the Small Claims/Civil Division. The ladies cannot BELIEVE this case is still on going. They were begging me to literally start hounding the Judge's office every, single day starting immediately. I had already received the words of wisdom above reminding me about the holidays and vacation, etc. I explained I would not at this time knowing this is the Christmastime and New Year's is just around the corner. No one is going to be focused on our case, I'm sure.
I asked again about the Florida's statute of limitations for judges to rule. They advised I call the Legal department. The lady there is not a lawyer and no one was in the office other than her on late Friday afternoon. The Legal Dept. Secretary said she's been in that department for many, many years and this has been a problem in the past. She said she did not believe Florida had a time limit for a Judge to rule. She said she knew of another case that hadn't been judged after nine months and that person had to hire an attorney to prod the judge and make a motion for the Judge to rule. This same lady also advised that after the first week in January, she would advise that I send the Judge a letter offering to meet with him to answer any questions that may have surfaced and to flat out ask why he hasn't ruled? Or call and make an appointment to see him. My husband thinks it's time he called the Judge.
As it stands, it is very depressing to not have a resolution or cabinet doors. It's even stressing my mother who has been so sick and hospitalized recently. I've decided come hell or high water, I'll video tape the doors and start the process of painting them in January. My mother wants to see my house done for me. I want it done so she can see it, too. Life has to go on. I'm tired of being held hostage by CFG and now the "justice system".
I have to say again, I appreciate you hanging in there with me. Have a Very Merry Christmas and a Blessed New Year!
I WILL POST as soon as I hear anything at all.
Yup, Sheri--I think it's time to start being the squeaky wheel. It's ridiculous how long he is taking--no matter how he rules, he has to know that SOMEONE is out big money and it's a hardship. Timely rulings keep dishonest people (like CFG) from closing his business and leaving town before he gets stuck with a judgement.
I even had a crazy thought--is the judge punishing you for coming on so strong in court...sort of "teaching" you patience?
Whatever, it's just wrong. I think it's time to start hounding.
Pamela, you know how some men can be...and women can be. You've written exactly what we've wondered, too. I've rolled in all around in my mind and we've all talked most of this out to pieces. Now, it's the mind games that we're considering.
There is no doubt in my ever-lovin' mind that when I came across absolutely incredulous at the judge's attitude a couple of times at his very glib, mediocre examples he used to state "his interpretation" of results that I perceived that he thought I viewed him as simple minded and stupid. He DID say some stupid things. After reading some of the things brought up here, he could have just been baiting CFG or me. WHO knows? I know this, I knew shortly after signing the contract that CFG was pulling some crap on me. It wasn't until about a month into it that I realized the door profile misordering, then not until delivery did I know about the hood, horrible paint job, then later...that the hood and some other appliances wouldn't fit. When the Judge just wanted to act like this was a "misunderstanding", I gave him a long,incredulous stare, which no doubt enticed him to prompt me to comment. My sister and I have discussed this and neither of us believe I was rude. HOWevER, the monologue that ensued by me flowed in such a way that it left an impression with both the Judge and CFG. I reiterated that there was NO doubt the case was complicated, yet crystal clear as to the facts, which I again spelled out. I also stated that CFG was a shyster, in my opinion, and had a track record. He forged my initials, presented the fake contract with my forged handwriting to top off his bait & switch number. I didn't see how it was possible to simply ignore, forget, or just sweep away these facts under the rug and call this fiasco a "misunderstanding." The first time he "screwed me" I started documenting EVERYTHING, which the evidence proves. I've done my part and he's done nothing but fabricate fiction, created that forged contract, and frustrate justice. I don't see how anyone could let this 'go' unchecked. I came to court for justice. He came to court with fabrication and fiction. We've yet to see the original contract, drawings, or the truth from CFG. I was directing the Judge and plainly said something like, "I don't know how the court could possible conclude that we had a misunderstanding unless the evidence is completely ignored. I didn't send return reciepted mail to his attorney, the BBB, to CFG, for giggles! NO! I was preparing to defend and document the truth because I KNEW I was dealing with someone that was treating me dishonest. It's not a pleasant experience being duped.'
I told my husband that I thought I probably made him feel like a fool. But doggone it, I worked hard getting our ducks in a row heading to court and we've been dealt an expensive fiasco to deal with. We didn't do anything wrong except trust CFG.
You know, if anyone remembers the very first thread about all of this then you'd know, I was tormented when I stopped payment on that check. The ONLY QUESTION that "may not make sense", and the Judge DID question me this: "If I was so unhappy with the cabinets, then why did I ever have the check prepared to pay CFG?"
That's the ONLY thing that MIGHT seem almost 'unreal' about it all. The ONLY "defense" I have for the check being prepared was the truth, which I stated. I made it clear to the Judge that: CFG was present three days for installation, which was never finished.
I KNEW from Day 1 that the cabinets were not the right color. They were multiple colors of white. I was told, "Let me finish. We're not finished painting. We're going to finish on site."
I KNEW from DAY 2 that the hood was not arched. I told the Judge that I had a very loud, **itching session/FIT with CFG when I saw the hood, the uneven cabinets, and HIS WITNESS TESTIFIED THAT, "...SHE HAD A COW WHEN SHE SAW THE HOOD and the pantry cabinets. She was also very upset with the cabinets being unlevel with this hood." HIS witness CONFIRMED that I was "disgusted", and that he had asked me to leave and let CFG finish.
As I drove around that day I cried, screamed, and just *(#*#%*&%#9943098459()&^^%&^^*!!!!!$**$%% HAD CFG had put me through. I HATED THE HOOD and knew I was going to have to have it modified. His work looked NOTHING like the GORGEOUS work my sister has in her kitchen. I even asked him if he was on drugs!!! That night, I knew the only alternative was to go to court. I didn't want to go to court. I just wanted him GONE!! So, I SCRAWLED out his final payment because I wanted his sorry a$$ GONE. OUT OF OUR LIVES! OFF my property and out of my KITCHEN.
Yet, there was more agony to come. There was DAY THREE! I made sure that the Judge understood that on Day 3 is when I saw my hideously painted doors. I came prepared to just see the finished product, pay him, and slam the door as he left. But, Oh, No! He put me through agony seeing how he prostituted my kitchen design, painted the cabinets so $shoddily, then as I was trying to talk to him, he snatched that check out of my hand before I could do anything about it. He jogged to his SUV and was gone. I hadn't seen my Master BR monstrosity! I had not seen my Master Bathroom! My Kitchen was not done, either.
And CFG NEVER, ever returned to finish, fix, or modify these cabinets.
I asked the Judge something like, "You call this a MISunderstanding? I don't think so. I'm SURE that your wife wouldn't put up with his shenanigans for two seconds! There is no way any woman would have misunderstood what went on here."
So, did I 'slam him'? Maybe a little bit. It's just not fair to see crooks do this to people. He has to be stopped. I don't know if the Judge has the moral courage and tenacity to stop him....or laws to stop him. There are not any laws against shoddy workmanship. However, I didn't pick a fly-by-night. I chose someone who's work I investigated many, many times.
Hi Sheri,
I had thought about what Pamela said too - judges can be pretty full of themselves and downright nasty when they want to be.
I'm adopted, and have a birth certificate that we were afraid wouldn't pass muster when applying for a passport as there are some blanks on it. Consequently, about 15 years ago when we wanted to take a vacation to the UK, I went to our local hall of records to get a copy of my adoption papers.
I was told I needed signed permission from a judge, as I was not entitled to them on my own. On their recommendation, off to the courthouse I went, and paid a visit to a judge's clerk to ask him to ask the judge to give me permission. The clerk said "it's got to be in writing", I said, "fine, give me some paper and a pen". He said "he's not going to accept it this way but it's your right to try", so I wrote a polite request and he took it into the judge's chambers. Rejected.
I have no idea what to do next, so back to the recorder's office I go...and they help me write it down on that legal lined and numbered paper. They told me what to write, and said "he may make you type it - if he does, come back here and we will do it for you." Back to his chambers I go, paper in hand. Clerk/baliff looked at me, raised an eyebrow and said "OK..sigh...I'll take it in". What followed next is permanantly burned in my brain.
The door to the chambers burst open, and this judge came storming out looking like he wanted to kill someone...namely, me. He got within an inch or two (no exageration) of my face and screamed at the top of his lungs: "HERE! I'LL GIVE YOU PERMISSION FOR THE FIRST 3 PAGES ONLY - BUT THAT'S IT! DON'T THINK YOUR'E GETTING ANY MORE THAN THAT - BECAUSE YOUR'E NOT GOING TO! YOU'RE NOT GOING TO PULL ANYTHING OVER ON ME!!" Apparently, he thought I was trying to get the names of my natural parents or something, which is funny, because I'd known who they were for years. He had scrawled something on a piece of paper and signed it, and shoved it in my face, along with my original request. Mind you...I had spent hours getting to this point with all the nit picky requests for the right paper, wording, etc..and he never kept my request, nor did he make a copy of it.
I was shaking from head to foot as I left that courthouse..partly because he scared the crap out of me, and partly out of anger. I got my papers that day, but never forgot how he treated me like I was trying to pick his pocket. It stll angers me to think that he would'nt have dared speak to an ax murderer that way for fear of violating his rights...but had no problem treating me like I was pond scum.
Point being though..that even though he was obviously very angry with me..he did hold to the law (as far as I know), and I got what I was entitled to. Your may have angered your judge, and he may be putting you through your paces a little...or he may not, but I think he will correctly rule in the end, according to the law. I don't think he would rule against you just because you made him angry, if you even did. I can't believe that you are the first person to get angry in his court..and you won't be the last. It goes with the territory in court cases.
Meskauskas, what an awful experience! But I agree with your conclusions: the judge will end up following the law. I've been thinking that Sherry will actually BENEFIT from this long wait. Let's assume that the judge is irritated by the personalities of BOTH participants during the presentation of the case. The paperwork then sits on his desk for a couple months. When he picks it up, he studies the evidence and recalls the testimony, but the emotions are removed, and even the memories of the courtroom experience have receded. Any dispassionate review of the case would result in a vindication for Sherry. She clearly has the "right" on her side; how can the judge see it another way?
The final judgment came in this afternoon. I didn't get the mail until late, so here it is on New Year's Day early AM that I am writing.
Comrades, this is a travesty of justice in my opinion. TommeCA had it dead on when s/he mentioned splitting the baby and "...if no one is happy then the judge has done a good job." Well, this was some lazy work on the part of this judge.
Bottom-line: I won. The Claim of Lien against us is discharged. I pay nothing and Cabfiascoguy doesn't have to pay me a dime. Apparently, the judge is letting him get off Scott free. There was NO MENTION of his forging my signature or fabricating the addendum on the contract. I'll reproduce here what the judge sent today. It's not posted online yet or I'd send you a link!!!!! :D Names are 'shaded'....for now.
"Cabfiascoguy", Plaintiff,
The Chases, defendants.
THIS cause came on to be heard at Trial and both parties appearing and offering testimony, the Court finds as follows:
A. This cause was originally filed as a Statement of Claim by the Plaintiff to recover $5,000 on an unpaid balance when the Plaintiff installed cabinets in the Defendants' home.
B. The Defendants' denied owing Plaintiff any additional money and filed a Counterclaim alleging faulty workmanship and failure to comply with construction drawings for cabinets.
C.The original contract between the Plaintiff and Defendants called for a total price of $17,250 for cabinets in the kitchen, master bathroom, master bedroom, and (children's study) kid's room. Defendants paid, $10,000, but refused to pay the remaining $7,250.
D. The Plaintiff's drawings marked "final" do not match the finished product. The workmanship was shoddy.
E. Defendants' expert tried to put a value on the work performed by Plaintiff. After listening to the expert the Court determined the value to be $10,000.
Therefore, it is,
Plaintiff take nothing on this action and go hence without day.
Defendants take nothing on their counterclaim and go hence without day.
The Claim of Lien filed by Plaintiff against Defendants and recorded in Official Records Book 2541..yadda yadda....is hereby Dissolved and Discharged and of no further force and effect.
DONE AND ORDERED at ...our courthouse, this 30th day of December, 2005.
Signed the Judge."
I cannot thank you ALL enough for being "here" and listening to all of my YUCK about all of this heartache. I can't help but want to cry knowing that I still have to face having these cabinets finished. I have several doors to strip and A LOT OF DETAIL cleaning up to do before they're all done. Just thinking about it is daunting. Keep in mind: 84 doors AND drawers to strip, prime, and paint. 84.
Part of me does feel like a huge weight is off my shoulders. Even knowing what all's left to do, it's a huge relief just to move forward vs. treading water. It's been one heck of an emotional rut for all of us over this fiasco.
Again, THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart for your support. I really wasn't sane many days and just wanted to spit nails. Your emails, encouragement, nudges, and a kick in the pants kept me on track; everyone helped me at just the right time. I can't write enough positive thoughts to you to express how grateful I am just knowing I could write and turn to 'you' when I just couldn't tell anyone else here about "this."
I am also somewhat relieved that the Judge's words "shoddy workmanship" will help any future plans of slamming with a libel suit. At least, I hope so.
I do have a question for those with law experience. I am peeved about this forging BS. What would you do if you were me about the judge apparently letting CFG get away with this?
Happy New Year to all of you!
(((hugs))) back at ya' SheriLynn. The good part is that you don't have to go into the new year wondering about this any more. I can't even speak to the judge ignoring the rest of it. Frankly, I'm disgusted. I hope you can move on out of the limbo this has had you in into better things, and a working kitchen in 2006. God love ya, girl.
Sheri, could it possibly be less expensive to order new doors and finish them/have them finished? Any possibility (tax accountants chime in here, with disclaimers!) that there is a loss you could write off?
I'm glad it's over, but I think your judge got lazy. He could've handed down that verdict without hearing the case.
Thank goodness it's over! I agree with Allison0704's advice to mentally put it behind you and concentrate on getting your kitchen finished and then cooking up a storm. (It can be very therapeutic!)
You know, we had our own GC-Fiasco Guy (NOT kitchen related) and it took getting a lawyer involved to get us out of a bad situation, so I know a little about the stress you've been under; it affected DH's health, but just putting it behind us was such a blessing. The only regret I have is that there is no way to warn other future clients or help them avoid what we went through and he and your CabfiascoGuy are free to go out and do it again to the next person. (OK, let's not get started on that.)
Happy New Year to you and I hope six month's from now you are enjoying your new kitchen and not even thinking about the SOB. Remember that living well is the best revenge!
For me to order new doors, the company charged me almost $2,000 for 34 doors when I had some of the cabinets modified. When Cabfiascoguy ordered these doors, he only PAID $2,000 for ALL the doors because his company got a huge discount.
I just WISH the Judge had asked me what I think is fair. I just WISH the Judge wasn't a lazy, milquetoast, milksop, candy a$$ and showed some courage.
He didn't DISCERN CRAP. My 14 year old son said that the Judge restated the OBVIOUS and judged nothing fairly.
JUSTICE, in our country today, is NOT FAIR. I know this. You know this. It's just the way it is.
Just so you know, the remaining $7,250 from the balance was GONE, SPENT within the first two months to pay for the LABOR OF: uninstallation, reinstallation of modified cabinets, redoing all of the crown molding (labor), measuring and ordering new doors. This did NOT cover any prepping of the location to paint on site, the stripping of ALL of the cabinet boxes, sanding of the doors the second time they were painted, the glazing, the products/paints/supplies, or the Painting labor. And let's not forget the WOOD bill for redoing 5" crown and rope molding. Also, NONE of these charges alone included modifications to my HOOD or master bedroom TV Cabinet! OR having to have the granite template guy return twice and redo the templates because the first time was when we found out our cabinet bases were not anchored to the FLOOR! ALL, and I mean ALL of the labor was piecemealed out. Many different hands were in this pie. WHY? NO ONE wanted to end up in court of to take on this job. I was so upset, I can see why no one wanted to help me. After the sixth guy turned us down, knowing this would end up in court, I cried. I couldn't hold it back. That is how I found out how to get the job done. I couldn't even get an estimate in writing from one person.
Not to re-try this, know that it was AFTER the second painter finished that the doors turned green. Why? No primer from the FIRST GUY!!!! ALL doors turned key lime GREEN!!!!!!! THESE had to be stripped and repainted, which has not been completed OR PAID for. I had someone to repaint them the third time, but has now gone on to work for a company and can't do them. The next most REASONABLE BID FOR PAINTING ONLY THE DOORS: is $6,800. This does not count glazing and reinstallation of the doors.
I can't find a company, and the LORD knows I've tried, to paint my doors the color I need....and that I can afford. Please, please, tell me if you know of someone. I'm in NE Florida.
And just for giggles, let's not forget the court costs, legal fees, anger management classes my husband attended, homestudy bill, and other miscellaneous charges.
I could have ordered the TOP of the line Omega cabinets for what we've now invested for these shoddy cabinets.
OH, by the way, I still need two drawer boxes modified. The drawers won't close because the boxes aren't square.
I have legitimate receipts for $10,000 and ADDITIONAL $24,000, not counting finishing. You think I don't feel shafted and like a fool? I HATE this rage I feel. I hate this bitterness I have. And believe me, my husband is bitter towards me because I chose this guy. $34,000 down the line and I don't have this mess resolved. It's NOT just the kitchen: it's my master bedroom, too.
I live in a large area, but our little home town atmosphere is small. The judge lives within a mile of my home. I WILL run into that judge somewhere or at a party. I've learned we know some of the same people. I WILL see him again, I am sure. I just don't know what I'll do at that time. I know this, it ain't gonna be sweet nothings I whisper in his ear the next time I see him.
Well Sheri, at least it is over.
They say it's a good compromise when neither side is happy.
Hopefully, now that the court case is over you can put all this unpleasantness behind you.
Try to focus all your energies now on finishing your kitchen to make it the beautiful room you envision.
BTW, did you ever report CabFiascoGuy to the Better Business Bureau, or Consumer Affairs Dept. in your state?
I am so sorry you didn't get a fair resolution from the judge. It's a bitter pill to swallow for sure. I hope that with some time, and once your kitchen is finally finished, your disappointment and anger (and it is definitely justified!) will start to fade and you can finally find some peace. I was just wondering if you had made a claim with with the better business bureau??? And then I also had the wacky thought - maybe you should have called on Judge Judy!!! I have no doubt she would have given you a different outcome. Your judge just really dropped the ball here. Here's wishing you a better 2006, and hoping you get the kitchen finished soon.
ArtTeacher: Yes, I did report him to the BBB. I am also going to follow up with them AND report him under his new business name. I am also going to send a final judgment copy to the well know interior deocrator that he gets most of his work. CFG has threatened me with a libel suit, since I told this decorator's business partner, her husband, about his shoddy workmanship. He asked me to PLEASE contact him with the outcome of this case.
Well, you know what? I think I will. WHY? He *might* be able to help me find someone to paint these doors. The boxes are already finished except for the glazing. I need the glazing with all of my moldings.
As for consumer affairs: I've not done that. I am also going to call a local TV station that does investigative reporting like this about local, shoddy workers, etc.... I think it's a community advocate type of a show. They seem to get resolutions. I don't have anything to lose now.
I just am not going to 'let this go' into some faded file or memory. That crappy guy is in this town and has done stuff to many people. The judge KNOWS this. I am just not done with him.
Think about this: He had a door bill of $2,000. He had maybe another $1,000 in wood. MAYBE. He had two people install and make. There is no doubt made within two weeks. Nothing spectacular on intricate about it. This guy is out NO MONEY. NONE. ABSOLUTELY NONE. My $10,000 covered his real expenses.
Oh Sheri, I am so sorry that you did not get the judgement that you wanted. It is the judgement that I expected the judge to come down with though. I know from first hand experience (also not kitchen related) how consuming this has become for you. From personal experience I would suggest that you let go of your anger. It will do you no good in the long run and it will not get your kitchen finished. I mean no malice in saying this, but just advice from someone that went through a two year fiasco of my own. I wish you the best of luck.
I am so disappointed in the judges decision! I just can't believe that he would not take into account all the money that you are out. You're right, he is lazy and didn't do the work required to produce a fair settlement. After all this time, he just "phoned it in".
I always think that justice will prevail, but I should know better. I went through my own non-building fiasco with a horrible boss that was harrassing me. The evidence was so clear showing what she had done to me, and I thought she'd get blasted once her VP saw what she was up to. In the end, she stopped, and finally moved on to another job, but I never got the satisfaction of anyone giving me an apology-not her or her boss. The fiasco affected my health and my family life.
I understand your need to do something more. Just be careful that you don't put yourself in a position to be further sued by him. And weigh carefully how much more energy you want to put into this. Oh, and I'm sending a mini slap upside the head to your DH for putting ANY blame on you for this. You could not have known what this guy was going to do to you. I have to assume that DH only said this to you in a moment of frustration and didn't really mean it.