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The Darkest Timeline...
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Arum disputes claim of Koncz's firing
by Lem Satterfield
Jul 18th, 2011
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"No, it's all bullsh*t. I know someone who has talked to Manny, and it's all nonsense. It's all a made up story," said Arum. "Up until a few hours ago, when I talked to [Filipino reporter] Ronnie Nathanielsz, who called me after he had dinner with Manny last night, I didn't know what to say. Now I do."
Arum said that Nathanielsz spoke to Pacquiao at length about the rumors, which at least one member of Pacquiao's camp said were true.
"I know who started it, but I'm not going to tell you. I know why they started it. There are a lot of these people are looking to get rid of Michael so that they can feather their own nest," said Arum.
"Ronnie Nathanielz had dinner with Manny last night, and said that Manny laughed it of and laughed up a storm about it," said Arum. "So it's all baloney. Ronnie said that Manny called it 'a bunch of hooey.'"
A partner in Pacquiao's MP Promotions, Koncz has been labeled by others, including some of Pacquiao's own camp members, as being a crook.
"But that's not true. Michael is very valuable and he's a guy who looks out for Manny 100 percent. My feelings about Michael are that he's got Manny's best interest at heart. He accounts for every nickle, and he chases us to make sure that every nickle is paid," said Arum.
"If some of these people who are after Michael came in to replace him, it wouldn't work, because I'm not going to do anything -- particularly at my age -- to jeopardize myself by doing something that is not appropriate," said Arum. "I want to make sure that Manny gets every penny that he's entitled to, and the only way to make sure is to make sure that he has honest representation. Michael has demonstrated to me that he provides honest representation."
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just like the floyd firing ellerbe story
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dam...too good to be true....
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The Darkest Timeline...
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"A bunch of hooey"
People say hooey?
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Hours to respond to this... 5 days and counting on responding to WADA. [Just an observation]
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Damn, I was ready to e-mail my resume to MP for a job interview as Pacquiao's new adviser.
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Looks like some ******* starting rumours so he can get Koncz's spot at the end of Manny's bed. Wants to move up in sleeping arrangement
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You placed him there to spy on Pac and to protect your interest... Please, don't lie.
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Brown not running
Now, that's real surprise to me ,because I thought for sure he would. He'd certainly have a decent chance, wouldn't he have? You guys from Massachusetts weigh in. Littleone?
I just had a hunch he might not run - too close to his 8 point loss to Elizabeth Warren.
Per Brown: "I was not at all certain that a third Senate campaign in less than four years, and the prospect of returning to a Congress even more partisan than the one I left, was really the best way for me to continue in public service at this time," he said. "And I know it's not the only way for me to advance the ideals and causes that matter most to me."
Prospect of returning to congress? Methinks it's more the prospect of losing. Although I keep reading he's popular enough with Massachusetts voters.
Make no mistake about it, this was a very smart and very clever political move on Scott Brown's part.
He has been running for the Senate for 3 years now. First to win the remaining term that was left when Ted Kennedy died, and he won that, shocking most people in MA.
Once he won that temporary seat, he was running to keep the seat, campaigning etc to keep the Senate seat for a full term.
Well that blew up in his face 3 months ago when he lost a bitter, nasty, negative campaign against a new comer that had never run for office before.
The people of MA made it quite clear to him that he was no longer wanted in the Senate seat, he had not performed as was expected, as he claimed he would perform and his campaign itself, the things he said, how he treated his opponent angered the people even more.
If he ran again, now, not much more than 3 months after losing the last election and he lost again, his political career would no doubt be toast, besides the fact that he would have to run again for a full term, if he won, in a year, 2014.
That, in itself, really does sound dumb.
The people have not forgotten his last campaign, it is not history yet, it's just a few months old. His chances of winning are not very high against someone like Ed Markey or even Steven Lynch, though I do think Ed Markey will be the Democratic Candidate and I hope he is.
Brown's wife, Gail Huff, is a well known news reporter, having worked for the ABC local affiliate, WCVB channel 5, for many, many, many years. She is well respected and well liked, yet even her campaigning with him, her ads in support of her husband, whom she claimed was pro choice, pro women, etc, could not , did not gain him the votes needed to win and the odds are she wouldn't help him out now.
She may very well have been a strong supporter of his sitting out this special election cycle and let the "dust settle" so to speak from his loss a few months ago.
Stories circulate that he and his family where both shocked and had difficulty believing and understanding that he did not win the election.
So Scott Brown can sit back and watch the primary settle who will be the Democratic nominee and see how the chips fall for the Republicans for a candidate.
Talk abounds that it could be either Kerry Healey, Mitt Romney's Lieutenant Governor when he stuck around to be governor or Bill Weld, once a moderate Republican Governor of MA.
I don't think Healey has a snow balls chance in you no where of winning the election and I doubt she would even get the nomination.
On the other hand, Bill Weld, I believe, would get the nomination, but I don't think he will win either.
Democrats, in MA, are highly motivated now, I believe they will turn out at the polls for both the primary and the election, and will put a Democrat, I hope Markey in the Senate.
In the mean time Brown gets to sit back and relax, follow his fellow Republican candidates in MA and see what they do, how they perform in this election, then decide what he will do next year.
He could run for a full term in the senate again, and interesting thought don't you think, if he won? Ugh, I know not a good thought, but he would end up being the junior senator from MA, sitting beside the Senior Senator, the Senator that beat him for that seat.
Or he could decide to run for Governor.
But believe me when I say, this was nothing but a political move, a move intended to put Scott Brown in the best position to win the next election that he runs in, nothing more, nothing less.
He really does have this grandiose belief about himself and he will be back, almost like "the governator in Calif."
Brown will be back in one incarnation or another, running for a political office again, maybe senate, maybe governor, but we haven't see the last of him.
I just hope the people of MA continue to believe they have seen enough of him and do not elect him to any other elected office.
Many of the people that supported Scott Brown in his first run were Tea Party folk. When they saw how he voted on many key issues they decided he was just another R in name only.
I am not a Tea Party R on social issues,but do agree with them on fiscal issues.
Oh, Scott Brown did not disappoint me at all.
My contribution to help him get elected was money well spent.
From Legal Insurrection, Feb 2, 2013, William A. Jacobson
Associate Clinical Professor, Cornell Law School, in part:
"Brown was a Senator for less than three years, but he holds an important place in our political history.
His election in January 2010 was a watershed moment in the rise of opposition to Obamacare, a spontaneous coming together of the Tea Party movement and blue collar Democrats. As someone who covered that 2010 race more closely and earlier than anyone, I witnessed first hand the passion with which seemingly disparate groups wanted to deprive Obama of a filibuster-proof Senate.
That 41st vote against Obamacare had enormous significance. It was not enough to stop it, because the Senate had passed a bill in late December 2009. Brown's election meant that the House, led by Nancy Pelosi, could not modify the Senate bill and had to take it as is, but for some relatively minor "reconciliation" changes. The hard core progressives never got to weigh in on Obamacare.
The Senate Obamacare bill, which became law because Brown could block any non-reconciliation changes, was and is a monstrosity, hated by conservatives and true progressives alike. Only party-line Democrats like it.
Brown's election in January 2010 also kept up the momentum created by the elections of Bob McDonnell and Chris Christie in November 2009, and took that momentum to a new level which carried forward into the 2010 mid-term elections and Republicans taking back the House."
Worked out quite well.
Yes, Scott Brown did good--I'm not disappointed at all.
Well, she didn't take pleasure in buying my unhappiness, Factotem.
I just turned around and worked 3 times as hard to get Elizabeth Warren elected, and we all know how well Demi's money worked.
She forgot one very, very important thing, before she spent her money. Carefully check out what she is doing, where it is going, how well it will be spent and how worthwhile an investment it is.
Except for making her "feel good" that she was trying, albeit a wasted attempt and fairly obvious from the start, to elect Scott Brown to a full term in the Senate, she didn't bother to check out what the public perception was of him in MA. Not such a good one, and if she really thought that he was going to win, while he attempted to insult, ridicule not only his opponent but the voters in the state,
Well, I guess it makes some people feel good to waste their money on a useless political campaign, just to say "I tried to get that candidate elected", it must also be nice to have that kind of money to waste as well, instead of spending it where it just might do some good for the country or for others in the country.
It also makes one wonder how someone can save the amount of money that demi claims to have done because of such wise investments etc. and yet she wastes money on political campaigns that are doomed from the start, and take enjoyed doing so.
Littleone, you don't have the foggiest idea of what I think I got, what I "forgot" or didn't forget, or a darned thing about me.
Get that straight.
I have said it before and I will say it again--I was very pleased with Scott Brown's vote regarding Obamacare, and as outlined by Professor Jacobson.
Another lie about my personal life--I haven't claimed to have saved any "amount of money", littleone.
No, you're just blowing smoke again.
As far as Scott Brown, I got my money's worth.
I don't care what kind of job he did in Massachusetts.
I don't live there.
He did what I wanted him to do.
Money well spent!
Posted by mrskjun 9 (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 2, 13 at 19:03
So I take it you didn't contribute to Elizabeth Warrens campaign littleone. Do you think you could have spent the time you did working for her, helping out in soup kitchen or a homeless shelter? You know, doing good for others?
Maybe teaching her basketweaving and teepee making.
Who knows, Brown may be under scrutiny or investigation for something improper or unethical that he did while in Office and that could have been part of his calculation in deciding not to become a two-time loser.
OK, but Geraldo Rivera?
I am not a Tea Party R on social issues,but do agree with them on fiscal issues.
That "fiscal conservative" line went out with the GOP/T support of Bush Wars, the Bush Bank/Wall Street bail-outs, and with the hypocrisy involved in calling for austerity from the poor while pimping for the uber-wealthy on tax increases.
Conserving the wealth of the plutocrat Romney class is what "fiscal conservatism" is all about now.
So I take it you didn't contribute to Elizabeth Warrens campaign littleone. Do you think you could have spent the time you did working for her, helping out in soup kitchen or a homeless shelter? You know, doing good for others?
Good try, Mrskjun, doesn't work, I certainly did contribute to Elizabeth Warren's campaign, and I already spend plenty of time working in soup kitchens, homeless shelters, right along with the local food bank in my community, volunteer in the public schools, just to name a few things that my spare time is spent on.
I would venture to guess that I do more in my community to help others in 1 month's time than you do, but that is neither here nor there.
Demi, for someone that constantly claims that you have made good investments, don't need any help, pay for your own medical care out of your wallet, took personal responsibility so that you would have financial security, sounds like to me you did a lot of saving money, whether you word it as "saving money" or something else.
One must have a way to pay bills, purchase that which is needed and you certainly claim to be able to do all of those things without any "handouts", government assistance, any "entitlements" which the Republicans put social security and medicare under.
So, it's not hard to see and believe that you have saved a great deal of money to be able to support yourself, and I'm sure others on HT, those that have been here quite a while and read all of your posts would agree with me.
If Scott Brown is what you call "money well spent", good for you. He's history as a Senator, and he may think he has a shot for a full term or for Governor, but he better be prepared for a far better campaign than he ran this last time, otherwise he will be a failure again, which would be a good thing for MA and the country.
Maybe teaching her basketweaving and teepee making.
Now is that comment a sample of your intelligence? I certainly hope not, and just so you know, snide insulting remarks is far from lady like, at least that is what is taught in the North East. Maybe it is different in the South, I don't know.
edited to correct spelling
This post was edited by littleonefb on Sat, Feb 2, 13 at 20:39
Demifloyd wrote,
As far as Scott Brown, I got my money's worth.
I don't care what kind of job he did in Massachusetts.
I don't live there.
Thank you for admitting that you are so selfish that you don't care if someone you helped elect did a poor job for the people he represented as long as you personally benefited. At least you take personal responsibility for making so many other people unhappy to get what you want. Your lack of empathy is chilling.
Mrskjun wrote,
So I take it you didn't contribute to Elizabeth Warrens campaign littleone. Do you think you could have spent the time you did working for her, helping out in soup kitchen or a homeless shelter? You know, doing good for others?
How telling. Apparently you do not support candidates who will do good for others. Fortunately, other people, such as littleonefb, do.
So littleone, I take it you are not from the North East?
Oh, mrskjun, your humor just fails to impress me or just about anyone else, I'm sure.
I'm living in the North East, can you not read that it shows z5MA right there beside my GW name?
Do you not know that MA is the abbreviation for Massachusetts?
Do you not know that MA is located in the North East, heck it's in New England, heck I love about 8 miles from where the original "shot heard round the world" was fired, you know that place? Lexington Green, located in Lexington Center and not that far from the North Bridge in Concord.
YOu know that date Mrs? April 19th 1775.
Now if you mean was I born in MA, you better believe I was born in the bluest of blue states, otherwise known as MA. Yup born and brought up here. Matter of fact born a few miles away from the famous "Kennedy Home", where John F. Kennedy was born.
Oh, and by the way, Mrskjun, I am not the one making all the claims of being a lady, as Demi does quite frequently.
I never claimed to not be a lady either, I only claimed that Demi's snide remarks where " from lady like, at least that is what is taught in the North East. Maybe it is different in the South, I don't know."
Sure hope that answers your question. Mrs.
More predictable gang mentality of piling on the messenger for pointing out the intentional misrepresentation at best, and outright lies at worst, of Elizabeth Warren, I see!
It's okay, I'm sure many of you forgive her.
She had to be special somehow, didn't she?
Here's more about our Indian Princess from the Washington Post, September 27, 2012, Sean Sullivan:
"In late April, the Boston Herald reported that in the 1990s, Harvard Law School--where Warren began teaching in 1992 and was granted tenure in 1995--touted the Democrat's Native American background as part of an effort to boost its diversity hiring record. Warren's campaign said she didn't bring up her heritage before Harvard hired her and that her background came out through later conversations.
The next week, Warren acknowledged listing herself as a minority in a directory of law professors. The directory included her on a list of minority professors from 1985 to 1996, the Boston Globe reported. Warren said she listed herself as a minority because she wanted to connect with "people for whom native American is part of their heritage and part of their hearts." Brown, meanwhile, went on offense, calling for more scrutiny.
In late May, the Globe reported that Warren acknowledged that at some point after she was hired by Harvard and the University of Pennsylvania, she informed the schools of her Native American heritage. The revelation spurred a new round of questions, since Warren never brought up the fact a month earlier, instead saying she didn't know why Harvard listed her as Native American. Earlier in the May, a report pointed out that she listed herself as "white" at the University of Texas Law School, prompting questions about consistency.
Throughout it all, Warren struggled to get past the story. Her responses to questions about why she identified as Native American were convoluted (and included a discussion of "high cheekbones" at one point)."
You are welcome--from someone who really does have a Native American background!
Littleone, Thanks for giving the lowdown on MA politics. I knew you'd weigh in, and I want to thank you for helping get Warren elected. A great accomplishment. She'll make a spectacular senator and now the SENIOR senator to boot. This must really rankle the ladies from the south who apparently don't have the upbringing we people in the northeast have.
"You are welcome--from someone who really does have a Native American background!"
Why would we believe you any more than we should believe her? According to you, people accuse you of lying here on a near daily basis. That does not speak highly of your character. You know, "where there is smoke there is fire".
NO, it does not.
That is part of a heritage--not a "political correctness point" to attempt to verbally bash other when one does not agree with them.
Contrary to the standard liberal proclivity of proclaiming identifying characteristics of a group of people they wish to control for votes as "out of bounds" by others lest they be labeled some nasty name, people that genuinely treat everyone the same and do NOT see people as different because of race, gender, or ethnic backgrounds don't quake at noting that Native Americans wove baskets and built and lived in teepees--people like me are proud of that heritage.
There is nothing egregious in my heritage, but Elizabeth Warren's listing herself as a minority at Harvard, IS egregious.
"High cheekbones"--sure, Elizabeth.
Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on
Sun, Feb 3, 13 at 8:05
I suspect a Native American would disagree especially in the context you used it. It was intended as a jab at Warren and served no useful
purpose than to denigrate her.
She denigrated Native Americans, Chase, with her lie.
I didn't denigrate her. Elizabeth Warren did a good job of that herself.
I suggested someone could teach her basket weaving or teepee making.
Perhaps if she learned, someone might make her an official Junior Native American and give her a little card to carry in her wallet--maybe if she's lucky, a little tin pin for her collar.
THEN she could legitimately claim minority status, sort of.;)
The Demi Police are out in full force, eh?
Have a great Sunday--I hope your weather is as pretty as ours--sunny, cold, and high 60s forecast for today.
So let me get this straight, so I'm sure we all understand this correctly.
According to Demi
You are welcome--from someone who really does have a Native American background!
"she" being Elizabeth Warren She denigrated Native Americans, Chase, with her lie.
And we are supposed to believe these statements because
Someone named "demifloyd" on a public forum called "hot topics" on Gardenweb says so.
when a political figure, a Democratic candidate for Senator in MA, claims Native American Heritage it's a lie.
OK, I get it. makes perfect sense to me, NOT.
How absurd Demi. because you say it is true it is. Not in your life, there is no proof that you are of Native American Heritage, and none of us have any reason to believe you and your claims.
How presumptuous of you to think we would believe you and your claims more so that those of a political candidate.
OOPs is it because she is a democrat and she beat your candidate in an election and now we are hearing "poor loser" attitude out of you and you can no longer get your "money's worth" from your donations?
Either way or whatever your reasons, your claims are not believable, anymore than anyone else's on this forum are, including mine, that is unless any of us known each other personally.
Of course, now Demi is going to turn this thread into a "poor demi, everyone is picking on me" thread.
I didn't say you denigrated her.....you denigrated Native Americans. As I said the mentioning of basket weaving and tee per making served no useful purpose except to insult her and in doing so you insulted Native Americans
Sunny and low 70's.........
Oh, you have the same weather. Hope you're having fun.
I didn't insult Native Americans.
I made fun of Elizabeth Warren.
I'm sure my Native American ancestors wouldn't be offended by my words, if stories my grandmother told me about them are true. She had no reason to lie, unlike Elizabeth Warren.
I would say I'd bet they would be offended by Elizabeth Warren's claims, but if the stories about them are true, they couldn't care less about what someone else said about Native Americans.
They had more important things to do.
I'm like them in that regard--people can say what they want as long as they follow the rules and laws.
You see, people say all sorts of things about public figures here and it's all okay, until a conservative says something about or makes fun of a liberal. Oh, then it's a travesty!
If Ms. Warren intends to run for President, she'd better be prepared to take it. She put herself in this position--and it tells us a LOT about her judgment and character.
I'm sure she's a nice person and may be a very effective representative for the people of Massachusetts, but she fudged.
She fudged a little.
If you fudge a little, you'll fudge more.
That's something we all should know about her--
and remember.
Well, I'm sure that the Republicans will attack, all barrels blazing, Ms Warren on her belief that she has Cherokee ancestry, figuring that the smear campaign will work on a national level.
Gee. The number of people who don't seem to realize that attacking the ethnicity of someone just showcases the bigotry that now permeates the Republican party, driving away moderates and disgusting so many people.
So hey, go for it.
omg yes, demi is going to alienate the native americans of which Elizabeth Warren is not one. And hillbillies and southerners as well!....Oh wait, that wasn't demi was it.
And for those of you who feel they might qualify for a government paid cellphone, here is some info on the subject.
Here is a link that might be useful: link
Well, we know Elizabeth Warren "fudges" about her minority status.
I'm being kind in that characterization, too.
It is very important to know these character flaws in a person--particularly one people are touting to be President of the United States.
mrskjun wrote,
And for those of you who feel they might qualify for a government paid cellphone, here is some info on the subject.
You might want to actually read the article at the link you provided. That's generally a good procedure to follow when you're trying to make a point, as it helps to avoid the kind of spectacular embarrassment you have just caused yourself.
From the link you provided:
LifeLine is funded by the small Universal Service Fee that is added to phone subscribers' monthly bills.
Now, was what demifloyd said true? An honest person would answer the question directly. Are you an honest person? We're about to find out.
This post was edited by Factotem on Sun, Feb 3, 13 at 16:29
MrsK - did you even read the link you provided? Your reading comprehension skills need serious work. More, much more, than a tune up that was suggested recently.
We've been over this so many times. You really should be embarrassed to keep posting the same lies. And then you post a link which says the opposite of what you think it says. Very embarrassing. Typical and expected, though.
demifloyd wrote,
Another lie about my personal life--I haven't claimed to have saved any "amount of money", littleone.
Sure you have. You said you'd save enough money to be comfortable in your retirement. You owe littleonefb an apology.
This post was edited by Factotem on Sun, Feb 3, 13 at 18:17
I must have missed previous discussion. We pay a tax or a subsidy, it's been called both,called Universal Service Fee on our phone bills that is used to provide either landline or cellphone service to people who are eligible. The program is called Lifeline, and the fees or tax is collected through the FCC and disbursed back to the phone companies for those deemed to be eligible.
I don't get what the hoopla is about with the reading comprehension and stuff. Must have been a disagreement about it on another thread....I'm outta here.
demi--what tribe officially lists you as a person of Native American descent? That would be interesting to know.
A person can't go around and claim Nat. Am. heritage just cuz they decided to. You have to meet certain requirements that are recognized by the specific tribe you claim you are descended from. I can't remember the details now, but I used to work with a woman who was in the process of submitting the papers and documentation to the tribe that would enable her to be officially labeled Nat. Am. I'm thinking it was something like proving you were no less than 1/16th identifiable Nat. Am. (particularly the tribe you were applying to). I remember how excited she was when everything went through and she became officially recognized by that tribe.
That "official" category also applies to affirmative action loans and actions. You must PROVE you have a grandparent (or is it a great-grandparent?) who is recognized by a specific tribe. You can't just go in and claim the connection with no proof--at least not if you want anybody to take you seriously.
So what tribe officially recognizes you, demi?
And would the tribe consider "basket-weaving and making teepees" (used as a put-down of a political opponent) to be a good description of what it means to be an authentic Native American?
mrskjun wrote,
We pay a tax or a subsidy, it's been called both,called Universal Service Fee on our phone bills
A tax, by definition, is paid by taxpayers to the government. The Universal Service Fee is not a tax, of course.
I don't get what the hoopla is about with the reading comprehension and stuff.
That's evident.
The number of people who don't seem to realize that attacking the ethnicity of someone just showcases the bigotry that now permeates the Republican party, driving away moderates and disgusting so many people.
The last-minute conversion of GOPers - a month or two before the general election - hasn't been proven very effective.
MsK, before you sarcastically dismissed the comments you might have done better to consider the number of Latinos and other who are part Native American/indigenous peoples.
I applaud all efforts of conservatives to reject any type of PC thinking. Do it often and do it loudly! We on the left encourage you.
Teepee-making, eh?. That would leave out most of the tribal peoples of the Western coast and deserts and most of the rest of the America's southeast of the US. Come to think of it, most early depictions of Native American settlements did not show teepees. The ignorance of some on HT amazes me, given the amount of education professed.
The last-minute conversion of GOPers - a month or two before the general election - hasn't been proven very effective.
It's going to take a very, very long time for any of the "new beliefs", if that is what they really are, to be believed by the voters, and then again, that party platform has to really go.
As a friend of mine put it, once a long time Republican, as she puts it "back in the day of sanity with them", maybe when my grandchildren are old enough to vote, and that grandchild is right now "snug as a bug in a rug" inside his/her mommy, the voters will believe what the GOP says.
Until then, well either the true GOP fights and retakes their party or they form a new party with a new name and let the voters know what the truth is.
As it stands now, the GOP has been hijacked, stolen right out from under their noses, by the teaparty, right wing evangelical, extremists and it is not looking good for the GOP.
One can not get the voter to vote for you when all you do is insult, denigrate, ridicule, make fun of the voter that you want to vote for you.
Heck that isn't politically correct anything, that is just plain and simple common sense.
Teepee, basket weaving, just the stereotypical insults used to denigrate and ethnic group.
Till you mentioned it, Marshall, it never crossed my mind that comment was not just insulting, and bigoted but also ignorant in more ways than one, especially coming from someone that is claiming to have Native American Background.
The Native Americans didn't build teepees in the south east. Matter of fact on the nomad tribes of Native Americans in the Great Plains where the followed the herds of Buffalo to hunt as the herds roamed the plains.
The tribes specific to Elizabeth Warren's claim of having both Cherokee and Delaware ancestry, well the Cherokee built wattle and daub homes. These homes were framed with tree logs and then covered with mud and grass to fill in the walls. The roofs were made of thatch or bark.
The Cherokee people historically lived in houses made of mud and clay with roofs of brush and river cane. In the winter time, they lived in even smaller clay and mud houses which included the construction of the roof, as well, in order to keep warm.
By the late 1700's, many Cherokees were living in log cabins while some even lived in clapboard houses like their non-Indian counterparts. Today, Cherokees live in many types of dwellings based on economic abilities, including some who still live on ancestral land in small cabins or other small homes.
Sure doesn't sound like teepees to me.
And the Delaware built homes whose living quarters were grass and bark covered longhouses.Each village contained a sweathouse for steam baths.Sweating in steam baths was the usual remedy for disease and melancholy. Following steam baths, men repainted their bodies, and women painted their faces with white,yellow and red dyes.Red was usually associated with war. Most men painted red designs on themselves prior to battle
heck that doesn't sound like teepees either
"Ignorance is bliss" so they say, and we sure see a lot of spouted on HT from those claiming to be well educated, in the know, actually does have a specific type of heritage and knowledge of that heritage.
If that where truly the case, one would not be spouting out such bigoted comments about their own ancestry and then claiming it to just be "making fun of someone. It's a bigoted comment regardless of how one reads it, and that is just being kind.
It does show true ignorance as well as it implies that all Native Americans lived in teepees when only a small minority did.
Oh, and Demi expects us to believe that is really the one with the Native American Background and Elizabeth Warren doesn't.
Yup, and the moon is made of green cheese too.
Just in case you have a need,
and then there is....
Here is a link that might be useful: link
Then you will have to explain to me why these should become lost arts. I have a friend who is native American and sells many of the baskets in her shop. They are quite beautiful and sell for large dollar amounts. Isn't that a good thing? Why are you trying to make it derogatory?
demifloyd wrote,
Another lie about my personal life--I haven't claimed to have saved any "amount of money", littleone.
Sure you have. You said you'd save enough money to be comfortable in your retirement. Therefore, what littleonefb posted was not a lie, contrary to your accusation.
You owe littleonefb an apology. Do you have the character to issue one?
Demi, I asked up thread for some credible source that states Ms Warren in fact "fudged" information about her heritage.
I can find lots of criticism of her for "using" that information on her resume but nothing indicating she was bring untruthful. What do you base your accusations of her on?
Waste of time Chase.
Why the unending need for attention and baiting until it is received is to be pitied.
Why not everyone let the comments stand as they are and allow them to speak for themselves- the words become fuzzy in their original content and intent the more it is challenged because denial and then personal outrage, instead, becomes the focus.
Maybe its not possible on a forum like this but it sure would be an interesting experiment regarding evolution, IMO
Why not everyone let the comments stand as they are and allow them to speak for themselves
Speaking for myself, I have a problem letting something stand when the person provides zero supporting evidence. It may be someone's opinion that Ms. Warren has no native American heritage. But to say that Ms. Warren is lying without backing that up with proof, or at least some explanation of how you came to that conclusion, is inexecusable IMO.
If we allow that to go unchallenged, this board just becomes a waste of time.
The problem is not that it's challenged. The problem is that the person who is being challenged turns it into a pity me post. But, IMO, it should still be pointed out so that everyone reading understands what is going on.
demifloyd wrote,
You can't quit me, jillinnj!
Rent free.
Do you have the character to apologize to littleonefb for falsely accusing her of lying about what you said? The silence is deafening and exposes the hypocrisy of your claims to being a stickler for personal responsibility because you don't ask anything of anyone else that you don't expect and ask of yourself.
This post was edited by Factotem on Mon, Feb 4, 13 at 17:19
That's all you have? No response to your lie about littleone. No response to a request for how you came to the conclusion you did about Ms. Warren? Chase even asked you politely. Twice. You always say if asked politely you'll answer the question. Another lie?
Just so we're clear. You're not answering and just replying with what you think are witty responses.
Got it (and so does everyone else who can think).
I guess I am left to assume you willl not tell me what information you have that supports your claim that Ms. Warren is a liar. If you have no information to support your claim then I guess that could make you a liar.....something you vehemently deny.
Posted by chase z6 (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 4, 13 at 18:01
I guess I am left to assume you willl not tell me what information you have that supports your claim that Ms. Warren is a liar. If you have no information to support your claim then I guess that could make you a liar.....something you vehemently deny.
Don't you get it?
I don't play your games any longer.
Research it yourself--Elizabeth Warren identified herself as an "ethnic minority" and has admitted that she "let people know about my Native American heritage in a national directory of law school personnel." (quote from ABC NEWS).
There are many others.
But surely, I would think you know that.
Demi called her a liar....not me. I don't even know if she misrepresented herself. If you know that to be true then perhaps you can share the basis of your claim.
If she lied it should be understood by all that she did because that would be wrong. If she didn't then she should not be wrongly accused. I don't see that as a very complicated premise and certainly not a game.
Where is your proof that Elizabeth Warren lied about her heritage?
Well, Scott Brown said so, and one assume that Demi would believe anything that Scott Brown said, and because of that we are expected to believe anything that Demi says.
Do you mean purposefully misrepresented and lied or was just plain ignorant of her heritage chase?
Tag team for Demi has arrived. and you would believe this because Demi says so and/or because there just has to be a reason that Elizabeth Warren won and Scott Brown lost the election.
Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Elizabeth Warren was the better candidate, the candidate that the voters wanted and that Scott Brown fully showed what kind of person he truly was and many of us already knew.
Nope couldn't be that Elizabeth Warren won "fair and square" and that Scott Brown's claims about her heritage where nothing more than a smoke screen to deflect from him because he had nothing on a record to run on and wasn't capable of running on the issues at hand, the issues that are and where important to the voters of MA and the country.
Must be cause Demi says so and her "tag team" supports what she says. Truth isn't important, we already know that.
Demi never lies, even when it is proven that she has, and she will never apologize either,
Guess it's just not in her vocabulary and her nature, nor is personal responsibility. That's for those that are not republicans.
Elizabeth Warren identified herself as an "ethnic minority" and has admitted that she "let people know about my Native American heritage in a national directory of law school personnel." (quote from ABC NEWS).
And that's proof that she lied? In what alternate universe?
The Washington Post did an interesting and unbiased piece on Warren's claims, feel free to google it.
"The New England genealogical society clarified in a statement that it has found no proof of Warren�s self-proclaimed Native American lineage. The group also told The Globe that the candidate�s family is not listed in an early-20th century census of major tribes, known as the Dawes Rolls."
"An article in Atlantic magazine pointed out that Warren "would not be eligible to become a member of any of the three federally recognized Cherokee tribes based on the evidence so far surfaced by independent genealogists about her ancestry." That�s because her Cherokee ancestors, if she has any, would either be too distant or they never documented their ties in ways that meet the tribes� requirements."
They closed the article with the following;
"The outstanding questions about Warren�s directory listing � and her relying on family lore rather than official documentation to make an ethnic claim � certainly raise serious concerns about Warren�s judgment..."
I'm standing behind my statement that either Warren lied or she was embarrassing ignorant about her heritage. I find the latter harder to believe; common sense tells me that most people (sans some adoptees) understand this basic info. Didn't Warren find it curious that her family didn't have any Native recipes passed down, didn't interface with other Natives, didn't have any Native artifacts or trinkets in the home, etc?
Supposition, extrapolation and conjecture...nothing more....but that is enough for many.
My step father was definitely of Native Canadian heritage and there was absolutely no tangible evidence in terms of recipes , roles , etc. You have to really understand the modern history of 1st Nations people to understand why that would be the norm not the exception.
omg...what children. Prove it prove it prove it. Why? All over the internet that there is absolutely no proof of any American Indian heritage for Ms. Warren. 30 seconds to google the fact, yet some of you, like chase would prefer to spend half the day here posting prove it, prove it. neener neener neener
I'm sure my Native American ancestors wouldn't be offended by my words, if stories my grandmother told me about them are true. She had no reason to lie, unlike Elizabeth Warren.
Elizabeth Warren
Democratic Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren said Thursday that she knows she has Native American ancestry because her mother told her so.
Because my mother told me so. This is how I live. My mother, my grandmother, my family. This is my family. Scott Brown has launched attacks on my family. I am not backing off from my family."
So parents and grandparents are liars? Projection maybe?
Demi says IF what her grandparents told her was true. There appears to be some doubt.
Senator Warren is emphatic that her family did not lie, no IF or Maybe in her statement.
It is family, love and trust. Maybe it is a Liberal thing.
My grandfather stated a number of times that his ancestors (in Pennsylvania) were Quakers.
I confess--I have always assumed he knew what he was talking about and therefore that we probably had some Quakers in our background. It never occurred to me to go check my grandfather's veracity by double-checking his stories through an ancestor search.
Any traditions passed down in our family that would indicate one or more Quaker ancestors in the family tree?
It still never occurred to me to do an ancestor search on my Grandfather to see if he was lying to me.
I can thus completely identify with Ms. Warren's situation. If the family repeatedly says such and such is true, one tends to take it as truth--since our families have always been sober, reliable, and trustworthy in most things in life.
I fail to see why that would be considered an unusual situation--much less why anyone would call it a deliberate lie.


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The skinny on Dodd-Frank for insurance counsel
While the press around Dodd-Frank has traditionally centered on the impact of its provisions as it relates to banking behemoths, the insurance industry is also starting to feel the sting of Dodd-Frank.
Sony Pictures co-chairman Amy Pascal steps down in wake of cyberattack
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Student Digital Privacy Act would cover loopholes in COPPA
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Parsing through the rhetoric, however, a different proposition emerges: Our nation's public health sector should actually benefit from the Action, to the possible detriment of private payors.


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On May 18, 2010, Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries and Parks fisheries biologists and hatchery workers stocked 125,000 juvenile largemouth bass in Moon Lake.
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did somebody find driver sources for the FM transmitter in the BCM4330?
Wow. I didn't even know this chip had FM transmission capability. This would be a really cool thing for me for work, broadcasting to my radio in the workshop.
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Rescued hosta Liberty (pic heavy)
This has been a real slower on the north side of the house, and as I responded to " Hosta came in weak this year" , I decided to dig this up too and found what I was afraid of... Anyway... Here are the pics.
The trouble hosta dug up.
The rotted roots/crowns
After bleached bath for 10 mins
Not sure if I should put it back to the same spot... What do you think?
Does that area always get a lot of water that sits?
If it was me and I wanted Liberty to grow where it was, I would put it in a pot. Not sure if I would stick them back into the ground where the same soil is that these hostas were rotting in.
Nice job cleaning them up! They look ready to grow again.
Not sure how to improve the spot where they were. Something is holding moisture in the area.
If not a problem with tree roots, could you dig down and create a layer of gravel that would lead water to a lower area? If you cannot do a sort of horizontal french drain, then I'd just pot em up in a couple of whiskey barrels, elevated above the ground, and let em flourish. Two in each barrel?
If you like threes, then do one barrel, and experiment with the 4th plant in the ground. I bet the container hosta out perform the ground one in this case. Looks like you caught them in time.
This side of the garden drains very well...never hold any water thats why i was confused why some of the hosta rotted here, it is under a flowering cherry but doesn't looks like its competing heavily with the roots either.
So I planted it back with fresh soil in a sunken pots until i decide where I'll move her.
last of your top 4 pics ...
do you see how they look like leeks for 2 or 3 inches above the crown/roots ...
that means they were planted too deep ...
4th pic from the top... it tried to grow on top of the part.. that was too deep.. and all the old roots failed....
Here is a link that might be useful: do you know how they make leeks white.... they plant it deep in a furrow.. and as it grows .. they keeping mounding soil.. to keep that part out of the sun.. so it wont green ....


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Etsy anyone?
Does anyone here sell on Etsy?
How hard is it to set up, and call me stupid but exactly how does receiving payment work?
I've read everything on-site and I'm still not finding the answer to my question which is.....When someone pays you with a credit card or Paypal, where does the money go? Does it go into my personal bank account?
Thanks for any help you can give me.
Frannie, If you don't get an answer here, go over to the crafts forum and ask Huggybear or some of them. I have never sold on the internet so not sure how Paypal works.
No question is a stupid one, so it's always ok to ask. I believe any question being asked, is for a reason. As a mentor I couldn't stress this enough.
If you have more pictures please post for us to enjoy. I haven't been painting as much lately so I need others projects to keep me inspired. Thanks, Punk
I know Oddie on the Crafts forum set up an Etsy account too, so I'm sure someone on that forum can help you with answers to all your questions. There's a link to the Crafts forum at the top of the main discussions page here.
If you do set up an Etsy account, be sure to let us know, okay?
I have just set up my etsy shop. You do use paypal and it is really easy to set up. Once someone sends you money you can have it transferred into your bank account
Here is a link that might be useful: My etsy shop
On Etsy, you can accept checks, money orders or Paypal. If they pay by credit card and/or Paypal, it goes into your Paypal account. When you're ready, you just transfer what is in Paypal to your bank account. If you don't want to use Paypal, you can have the buyer send you check or money order.
I have been on Etsy since September and I love the atmosphere, not very many sales so far, but you know what? I have paid so much money for advertising online, I've sat in forums trying to get noticed, but honestly the most sales that I have had are from word of mouthe. But yes Etsy is wonderful!! Check out my site
Here is a link that might be useful: Etsy
Jenn, your Etsy site is nice, you have a big variety of items. I'm not sure what you mean by "I've sat in forums trying to get noticed". I certainly hope we have not ignored you here, we want every poster to feel very welcome, and we love seeing and hearing about each other's projects. However, if you were only on the forums to promote sales of your items, you probably need to realize that most forum members don't come here for that purpose. It's more for sharing ideas and keeping motivated and being able to share pics of the projects we've completed.
Kraftymom, I wish you much success with your new site too. Hope you will still be coming here to share with us too.


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if you could only grow one heirloom variety for taste?
What would it be............
Sue Ellen
Sue Ellen,
That's close to being an impossible question to answer and I'll bet you're going to get about as many different
opinions as responses.
For taste only and not considering anything else I'd probably say Prue.
For a orange/yellow it'd definitely be Aunt Gertie's Gold.
For a "black" I'd grow Cherokee Purple.
Terry Light
Oak Hill, Virginia
This is not a question which can be answered. It is akin to asking one to identify their favorite sunset or piece of music. The response from my most recent garden memory reflects only immediate recall. And that is a large, warm and lucious Kellogg's Breakfast, fresh-picked from the garden on a bright August day.
Since it is pretty much too late to grow from seed this year, I assume you are looking for one you can buy as a plant. That will limit your choices drastically.
What sort of heirlooms are available to you locally?
PS: if you are asking for future info, then a search here will pull up tons of "favorite..." past discussions including many titled 'favorite heirloom', 'best tasting tomato', 'pick your favorite heirloom', etc. Lots of good reading and many, many suggestions. What tastes good to one person may be blah to many others. ;)
Sue Ellen, what are you looking for in the taste of a tomato?
Taste is an individual perception and also has a genetic association for each person.
Varieties can vary re taste depending on the season grown as to weather, how they're grown and what amendments are used, so two people growing the same variety in the same season may experience different tastes for tha same variety.
Although I've grown a couple of thousand different varieties there is no ONE variety that I think has the best taste. Tastes are different and so while I may like one b'c it's sweet and spicy I may like another one b'c it has a rich complex taste and isn't sweet, etc.
So what's your preference?
Well here we go again! All Sue ask was a simple question about YOUR FAVORITE FOR TASTE and all we are gonna do is beat this to death with questions!! Well Sue my wifes favorite to date is Pink Brandywine but that might change this year as i'm growing some others for her to try.
"Golden Jubilee.
I last grew it in '96, before I'd ever heard of these 'heirloom' thingies OR brandywine.
This is the first garden I've had since the year I grew GJ, I wasn't able to get any GJ this year, but it's on my list for '09"
Cool, I am growing one this year
Carolyn gave an excellent answer. But up to this year I will give the following.
Overall taste- Lucky Cross- The only tomato I've ever grown including Brandywine that I would grow again with only producing 3 fruits.
Orange- KB hands down at this time. Could change after this year.
Pinks and Reds are hard ones. I have several and not sure I could say one is a clear number one. It is like Carolyn said I like several for different reasons. If I started naming I would have ten or more right quick. So won't even start. JMO
I looked again she didn't say which one was her favorite variety for taste? Just wondering?
No Richard, I didn't name one variety. And you didn't either b'c you named one that your wife liked and not your own personal favorite as was asked for. ( smile)
If I started naming names it would be a longish list indeed and only ONE was asked for from each person's personal experience. Sigh.
And I did think it would be useful if Sue Ellen indicated what kind of taste she was looking for so as to direct answers towards that goal.
Yeah, I wonder if this is a meaningful question too; I can't predict what sort of tomatoes are going to look, bear or taste good from one season to the next. Sometimes I'm really surprised. In that I do not grow my own plants (rotten conditions for it), I think the seedlings I buy are probably sometimes mislabeled or from bad seed, or erratic weather messes them up. [shrug]
So far, the best tasting tomato I've had from this garden is a presumably mongrelized Black Krim from some guy who had saved heirloom seeds from a small garden with about twelve varieties of tomatoes. The alleged "Black Krim" was somewhat pear-shaped and brick-colored, cracked and with a nasty green coring, but had astonishing taste. There were only about four tomatoes on the plant, all fugly-looking.
This year, I'm growing a commercially-produced Black Krim seedling ($3!) to see if it's going to match the taste of the dubious one last year. I'm also trying some kind of Brandywines and a Black Prince, among others.
We'll see.
I guess if I really had to pick just a couple solely on taste, Aunt Gertie's Gold would be at the top, and so would Indian Stripe and Earl's Faux. Cellphone usage notwithstanding, here are some of my favorites for taste by color:
Greens - Green Giant, Cherokee Green
Yellow/Orange/Gold/Bicolor - Tasmanian Blushing Yellow, Aunt Gertie's Gold, Lucky Cross
Reds - Chapman, Cuostralee, Wes, Prue or Tony's Italian (similar)
Pinks - Earl's Faux, Aunt Ginny's Purple, Dora
Darks - Gary O'Sena, Vorlon, JD's Special C-Tex, Indian Stripe or CP (similar)
Cherry types - Sungold (hybrid) and Black Cherry
I must chime in with my pick - Cherokee Purple. Last year was my first time growing heirlooms. I had grown tomatoes for years but always what was available at Wally World or Lowes, and of course the taste was so much better than grocery store tomatoes I was perfectly content to go on growing these guys. Then, I ran across Carolyn's book, which changed my tomato growing life forever.
In July, I picked the first ripe tomato off my Cherokee Purple plant, brought it inside, sliced big thick slices, sprinked them with a little kosher salt and a grind of pepper, and my DH and I could not believe the taste - like no tomato I had ever had. I immediately posted our reaction, and Bill P (aka Gone Fishin') was kind enough to comment and to encourage our exploration of other heirlooms. This year, we are growing 11 more heirlooms and look forward to years of trying different varieties.
Carolyn, thanks for organizing my thoughts.
Please give me a few (3) of your favorites with a sweet and spicy flavor. smile
Sorry for the delay Sue Ellen but I'm a tennis nut and I had to watch the Final from Barcelona this AM and then finish reading the Sunday paper. LOL
I use the words sweet and spicy to describe certain green when ripe varieties I've grown. Some may not taste what I taste as far as the spicy goes, but I do. Some say they taste a smoky salty taste for the so called blacks, but I don't, so there you go.
Three that I perceive as sweet and spicy are:
Cherokee Green
Green Giant
Green Doctors ( better than Green Grape and a cherry also)
And while I'm here I might as well do what Suze did and give some other faves and we do share quite a few faves in common.
Red: Neves Azorean Red, Wes, Chapman, Red Penna, Aker's West Virginia, Cuostralee, Prue, German Red Strawberry, to name a few.
Pink: Omar's Lebanese, Large Pink Bulgarian, Tidwell German, Nicky Crain, Stump of the World, Brandywine, etc.
Orange; Earl of Edgecombe, Kellogg's Breakfast, Sungold F1
Gold: Aunt Gerties Gold, Galina ( Cherry)
Pink/Blacks and Red/Blacks; Cherokee Purple, Indian Stripe ( a version of CP), Black from Tula, Black Cherry
Gold/red Bicolors: Lucky Cross, Virginia Sweets, Big Rainbow, Marizol Gold, Burracker's Favorite
White; not much taste with any of them. I think White Queen is the best of the bunch and does have some taste.
So those are a few of my favorites and I'm sure I've forgotten some of the best, but whatever. ( smile)
Can I hear more about Redfield beauty?
Bark, in case Trudi doesn't know the background which I posted in the SSE Yearbook in 1995, it's a variety that either Craig or I got out of the USDA in 1994, I just can't remember which of us and we both listed in the 1995 SSE Yearbook. It's a selection of Livingston's Beauty ( 1885) and it's a dead ringer for what we know as Eva Purple Ball. Same size, same color, maybe a bit lighter, same mottled white on the skin, same juiciness and all and I equate it with Eva Purple Ball which I like very much. With one exception. Eva tends to drop from the vine when ripe while Redfield Beauty doesn't tend to do that.
It's typical of many vareties where the full history has not been carried forward so in the 2008 Yearbook, for instance, very little is said.
I'd have to agree with sorellina, that if I had to chose just ONE it would be opalka - it's good tasting cooked or sliced fresh... it's good in sauces or salads... it gives toms fairly early and very few seeds... THANKFULLY we don't have to chose just one!!!!!
Black Krim immediately comes to mind. I 'bought' a plant years ago, so it was much ahead of my late started little seedlings, and it was the first ripe tomato I enjoyed that season. The last ones were just as good as the initial one.
> I can't understand how this question is so hard to
> understand for some people. I wonder if the longest
> responses are from the same people who have the highest
> cellphone usage? ;-)
Yeah, welcome to the Internet v.2008 [cough!]...
I could explain this as I've made a study of it, but it'd be too provocative to go into here.
Still, I'm sticking to Black Krim. That's the short answer.
I don't know why some people always get bent out of shape when someone asks this question. Its fun to see what people have to say.
For fresh eating I would be happy growing any of the following as my only taste-tomato:
Black Krim
Lucky Cross
Giant Syrian
or one of two different pink no-names that taste like Brandywine Sudduth.
The no-names are off-types out of commercial seed packs that showed up in the garden this year, so that isn't fair to put them on the list. Brandywine is not on the list because of the few fruits I've gotten off of the one plant I grew only one of them was extraordinary.
I would have to go with Black Krim overall because it is earlier than the others and a heavy producer.
But those are my tasetebuds. I've grown most of the others on the lists above and under my conditions they are good but don't make my eyes light up when I bite into them, which makes me think that there might be a big difference in flavor between something grown in a residential garden with 8 hours of full sun vs. an open field that gets full sun all day.
I can't taste color differences, and cherry tomatoes are a class unto themselves.
Every year i plants about 10 or 12 different varities of heirlooms. Every year a few of them sucumb to some sort of blight that seems to thrive on these things. Every year a few of them thrive and that becomes my favorite heirloom for the year. This year the best was Persimmon......
Now if I can only grow it again next year & have it preform as well or will another variety replace it as my favorite and have it fade into my memory of past favorites.
They include COPIA
but for 2008 it is PERSIMMON
Prue................... For the original question:)
Brown and Black Boar.........
SunGold (F1) SunSugar Black Cherry
Too many more I haven't tried and don't want to list all the others grown. ( 2009 Garden to include more golds and yellows for summer color also) ;)
Confused yet?
Everyone has their idea of whats best until they try one they never had. Depending on how much space you have just plant as many different kinds as you can and decide for yourself. Keep growing the ones you like and try some new ones each year. That's what I do and most have been just fine. Any I stop growing is because they are too much like another or I just want to try something else and need the space. There is such a variety of taste's you will have a hard time deciding.
Having grown several new varieties in 2008 to consider, I am still sticking to my original choice of Black Krim. I can still remember my first taste, where I was, what I was wearing, and who all raved over the tomato that was just not supposed to 'look' like that...you know, the sort of folks who think a tomato has to be red to be good. It is so good I may have to grow it every year, though there are several hundred varieties waiting to be grown and tasted.
My vote goes to Cherokee Purple. I think it is a beautiful tomato with great texture and a sweet,yet tart tang. Okay, now my mouth is watering!
My favorite tiny tomato is Red Grape. They are better than candy! Sweet, great texture, prolific, don't crack, just a great tiny tomato.
Is it mid spring yet?
The experts state there is no difference but this novice planted them both,side by side, and the Chocolate was smaller,more productive and tasted better. I only planted them once so not a lot of experience on which too base an opinion.
To answer the question , one heirloom for taste, I can after many years growing, say that it would be:
As far as my favorite Brandywine; it would be "Cowlick's Brandywine" which tastes a bit better than Sudduth's and Glick's, all of which surpass the other Brandywines in taste, and "Cowlick's" out produces them all!
This year I noticed a tremendous difference in taste between my Cherokee Purples and Cherokee Chocolates. This is the first year I've noticed such a difference. The CP's were much better! Taking the #1 spot away from my beloved Brandywines. But this is the only year they've done that, and their production was very low. For year after year, Brandywines lead the way.
I actually can name ONE. No matter which variety I try--and I adore many, many, many--it always comes back to Cherokee Purple as my first favorite. Chunks of Cherokee Purple splashed with good Sherry vinegar and a very light sprinkle of grey sea salt and pepper--I think I might temporarily be visiting heaven.
Fortunately I can find them at some markets from time to time, because I can't get them to grow worth a damn in Tucson's climate.
yes, many different reasons for describing one tomato with the best taste so let me qualify:
brandywine, sudduth strain, was the best tasting tomato i've ever eaten, during a very dry summer in which I had to water on a constant basis......but many tomatoes of many varieties had blossom end rot so the total tomato yield was particularly sparse that year. i.e., the best tasting tomato i ever ate was born of a very poor tomato season. other years when rain was so plentiful i never had to water and experienced high yields with no blossom end rot the taste of the sudduth brandywine was unremarkable.
Chiming in with the above...I started growing Cherokee Purple three years ago because of all the raves, but this was the first year i understood what everyone was talking about.
This year was mostly droughty for me, plus the fact that critters kept chewing holes in my irrigation tubing, maybe because I got my hand torn up breaking up a dogfight in April so my weeding left a whole lot to be desired, and a whole lotta critter cover.
I'm sayin it was DRY....plus weed competition.
But the Cheroke Purple and Black Seaman, neither of which had impressed me in the past, were absolutely exquisite last year. Didn't get a lot, the same critters kept pokin holes in them, but the ones I got i made everyone i know taste...and watched their eyes, to a pair, roll back in their heads.
Short answer: Persimmon
But I am probably not known for short answers ;P
I find it very interesting that Black Krim is so popular,
whereas at my cool location it has been consistently
watery and rather tasteless, so much so that my wife has
requested I never grow Black Krim again!
Paul Robeson has so much more flavor for us.
I am sure temperature has a lot to do with the flavor of my tomatoes.
Sugary grown in my back yard with a constant ocean breeze is just barely sweet,
in my sheltered patio against a southern facing wall Sugary is the sweetest tomato I have grown.
For folks with cool weather like myself I would not hesitate to recommend Sophie's Choice, yet one poster here
listed Sophie's Choice on his list of most disappointing taste!
My conclusion is that it is worth the effort to experiment with many varieties to determine those that do the best for you!
Join a tomato seed swap and you'll likely find some treasures!
Cherokee Purple & Chocolate are of course, very good.
Sandul Moldovan is right up there and I had forgotten about Aunt Ginny's purple, I just realized I have no seed for that this year! nor any blacks. Aunt Ruby's german Green is very good too.
Oh and Gary, Sophie's Choice was the nastiest tasting, most productive tomato I've grown. The only one i've uprooted mid-season.
I pick Sandul Moldovan.
Donna Marie,
The least expensive company from which to order one pack of tomato seeds is Sandhill Preservation at $2.00 shipping and handling for all orders under 10 bucks.
Sandhill Preservations tomato seeds run 1.25 to 2.50 USD. That's very inexpensive. And the 2.00 service charge is unheard of cheap.
Donna Marie,
I'd be happy to send you some Lucky Cross seed grown in 2007. It was from Victory Seed grown out originally in 2006 and then again in 2007.
I can't brag about productivity. Lucky Cross seems to be one of those great tasting tomatoes that like Yellow Brandywine is very very stingy with it's yield. But it did prove to be the larger fruit size with the much more golden and bicolor appearance rather than the occasionally found smaller, redder fruit that sometimes comes out of that seed.
If interested: email@example.com
Thank you, but I was on a mission this weekend to get my seeds ordered and, hopefully, it is on its way to me.
Lucky Cross was soooo pretty at MAGTAG and, suprisingly, tasted wonderful! I took it home from the get-together and had no idea what it was. When I sliced it, and saw the inside, it was beautiful! I assumed it wouldn't taste good (it was too pretty to taste good) and was just bowled over by the taste. I had to post on the forum to find out what it was. I was determined to grow it in '09. I had a hard time finding it, tho, for a decent price. Hopefully, I didn't sacrifice quality for a less expensive seed.
I've grown Cherokee Purple off and on for years. The last couple of times it hasn't produced well so I thought of trying Black Sea Man this year. Cherokee has been replaced by Old German as my favorite. At 2lbs.9oz. and few seeds, gorgeous color and a medium complex flavor it would get my one only vote. Green Zebra is in the top contending too. Just saw a site with 600 heirloom tomatoes. Bet ya can't eat just one!
The one I am eating at the time (in So Cal)
My realatives - many farmers came from PA,Missouri, Arkansas,Ohio that have given us some heirlooms over the years and at 60 yrs of age I have tried a few - though not as many as Carolyn
but I do agree these are all good
Black Krim
Caspian Pink
Marianna's Peace
I grow 100 plants a year and of those try 20 new - I no longer grow Brandywine Suddith, yellow, red or OTV though the latter 2 are more productive - I balance taste and productivity and occasionally plant a few "you gotta try this one" even though it has low to moderate productivity but taste is supposed to be exceptional - I try to attend tomato tastings looking for "new" finds - I have noticed at these that there are a lot of differences in what people like in tomatoes - just like music - and I think that because of that you really need to try several different ones - you will find that one or two or ten that you will want to grow - some that you like that others don't and that's ok - you know what you like and that is all that is important - read the book by Carolyn if you haven't already and pick a few that appeal to you and each year drop the 1/2 that you aren't excited about and try new ones the next year - pretty soon you will have tried over 100 varieties - and will have a top ten but keep searching - that will change and then down the road you will go back to one you haven't grown for awhile and forgot how much you loved it
I'm going to hazard a guess that very few of you have ever tasted Tegucigalpa. Or Heidi. If you like sweet juicy tomatoes (Sungold) that squish when you bite them and shoot seeds across the room, maybe you wouldn't care for firm tomato flesh with few seeds and a meaty taste with character.
So in addition some of my favorites are Lucky Cross, Verna's Orange Oxheart, and Herman's Yellow, as well as Ukraine Heart and other pink or red hearts except for Anna Russian and Forme de Coeur. German Red Strawberry yielded very poorly.
Anyways, Tegucigalpa has a really wonderful gelatinous meaty texture which accentuates the taste, as does Heidi, very similar to Lucky Cross in a smaller package. LC is bad for cracking at the top, which is it's main drawback but I still grow it every year. Totally luscious.
Great thread. Based on the number of recommendations here and other threads these are what I think I'll try next year. This year I already have 18 varieties growing, and only room for 15 plants.
Again, I can't recommend these, you guys did.
Sungold f1
Sudduths brandywine
Cowlick's Brandywine
Aunt Rubys german green
NAR Neves Azorean
Black Krim
Old German - didn't germinate 2009
Sue Ellen mentioned "one variety".
So here it is, the King of TomatoDom, the one and only and trust me, without it we would not be here:
Grow the strain from seeds that Dorris Suddath Hill gave to Ben Quisenberry, also referred to the Sudduth or Quisenberry strain.
My local Ace hardware sells veggies this time of year. Used to have a fair selection, but not so hot this year. However, they do have an Heirloom tomato.....that's the name, Heirloom. If you're only gonna plant one heirloom, this has got to be the one!
If you are after taste in any tomato, raise the brix level (sugar level)....some would be around 6 to 10 etc, but you can shoot for 14 to 20....supplying all the minerals, not just few will help...
azomite volcanic rock dust it a good start, also seaweed products...compost is must....no chemical fertilizer or poisons allowed.....good strong plants can defend themselves and give you a longer growing season (2 o3 degrees frost protection)...the indian
This is easy for me: Azoychka!!!
Azoychka is a yellow indeterminate heirloom tomato that comes from Russia originally. It is kind of uncommon in the US. It has a strongly acid type favor with lots of zing. It tastes unlike any tomato I've ever had before and it is probably the first tomato I have ever grown that I will probably grow every year. Truly fantastic!! I am on cloud nine about discovering it!
Angie, I only hope I get to taste an Azoychka! Still waiting! I have to say that I grew Orange Strawberry last year and for me it made the most delicious sauce, sweet and tart. But I didn't like the flavor of it fresh. I enjoyed Black From Tula and BW Sudduth. No favorites yet!
Just One:
-- Has to be early. ( ~ 65 days)
-- To taste good ( not the best but good enough)
-- Good size tomato ( ~ 6 oz)
-- Compact plant (Det, under 3.5 ft)
SILETZ got it .
I Can plant 2 of them in place one HUGE indet. That is like hitting two birds with one stone.
I am growing other early ones too( Matina, Bloody Butcher, Stupice) but the have much smaller fruits ( ~ 1,5 - 2 oz), they are overly tall indets, hard to manage.