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The Ultimatum : Benjamin Fulford - Part 1 Tokyo, Japan, February 2008 (continued in Part 2 and Part 3) Benjamin Fulford: Mr. Takenaka was telling me that he was forced to do it because the United States threatened to hit Japan with HAARP if they didn't. OK? Kerry Cassidy: And what would have been the impact of that? Tell us what that meant to Japan. Fulford: Earthquake. ... So I asked him: Is this true? (And I have this on tape, too) He said: Yes. In order to protect the environment we need to reduce the world's population to 2 billion. And war just doesn't do it, so we're gonna try to use disease and starvation. ... I use "Rockefeller" as an abbreviation for this group of inbred aristocratic families-- the American side versus the European side. The Bushes are part of it, for example. ... He had two rings. [Holding up right hand balled into a fist] One was the mask of a devil with horns and [holding up left hand balled into fist] the other looked like a wedding ring. And he'd go like this-- [thrusts right fist toward camera while raising left hand with open palm toward camera] and there was a Freemason mark [on the open palm]. And he says: These horns, just put a little bit of poison... and touch me and I'd be dead. And he tells me he's a Ninja, which is a professional assassin. ... He says to me: Mr. Fulford, if you want to be a muck-raking journalist, go ahead and do so, but you will die at age 46. However (and he gives me a big Freemason badge), he says: If you don't, you have a choice. You can become Finance Minister of Japan. OK? So he's offering me a choice of death or the job of Finance Minister. ... So that's how we describe it. We're looting these peoples' money but we're not gonna kill ''em, you know. And he said the population of Japan would be reduced to 70 million. They'd allow 70 million to live. And they need about 500 million Asians to keep making toys and stuff? He's describing, you know, massive genocide. ... I guess a lot of people of the very elite... I'm sure it happens to Mr. Obama and Mr. Clinton and anybody else at the high levels of US politics, senators, whatever. Someday they're given the same kind of ultimatum: Death or cooperation- so either you join us or you die. And that's how they manage to control the United States and enslave the American people. ... I had this great, what I call my "Kill Bill" moment. There's a scene in the movie "Kill Bill," these two women fighting with swords. It looks like it's gonna be a long, nasty fight? You're not gonna be sure who's the winner. Right? But one of the women (the bad one) has one eye missing. She has a patch. Suddenly she grabs the [other] eye and blinds her and ends the fight. Kerry: Yeah. Unbelievable. Very, very graphic. Fulford: Very graphic, but I thought: Hey, why not just target the Eye of the Pyramid? Because most westerners don't even know it exists. ... I realized the Society has 6,000,000 members and the western Secret Society, the top has only 10,000. So it's 6,000,000 against 10,000. So suddenly I said: Well, that's it! We've got these bastards. ... I became the first westerner in 500 years to join. Kerry: Did you have a body guard at that point? Did you hire someone? [Fulford sighs] No. If you need a body guard, it's too late. You have to operate at a higher level. I mean, if they really want to shoot me, they're gonna shoot me. You have to make ''em not want to shoot you. ... The key to democracy is control over money by the people, not by a secret elite. It's the money that counts. If you lose control of your money, hand it over to people you can't see, you're a slave. That's what you have to remember. Never, ever again, let some secret power elite take control of your money away from you. ... You know, if they're gonna try to kill billions of people, then we're gonna have to kill 10,000 people in order to prevent that. It's necessary. And the arrangements have been made. Start of interview I'm Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot, and we're really pleased to be here with Ben Fulford today, former Bureau Chief, Asia-Pacific, for Forbes Magazine, which is really fabulous. You did that for six years, I understand. BF: Yes, about six. KC: And you've been living and working as a writer and journalist in Japan for 20 years? BF: More than that. I first came in 1980. I went to university here. KC: Oh I didn't know that. So, you went to the University of Tokyo, or what's it called? BF: Maybe I should give you a brief background. I was born in Ottawa, Canada in 1961 and when I was six months old, my family moved to Cuba. My father was a Canadian diplomat. KC: Right. OK. BF: He was kicked out by Castro, because he was helping all these refugees escape. Then I lived in Mexico till I was 8. And from 8 to about 16 I lived in Canada. I went to a French school. So I grew up speaking 3 languages. KC: So you spoke Spanish. BF: And English as a child, and then French. From middle school on, it was all in French. KC: All right. BF: Um... and then, you know, I was at the tail-end of the hippy era and I was picking up these echoes from the past as to what was the street wisdom, as opposed to what we were learning in school. And the word was that if you went to university they would just brainwash you into being a consumer, and that, you know, there was something wrong with the world that the grownups had made. It was sort of the zeitgeist at the time. Right? And that if I went to university I would also be brainwashed, so I decided to escape. I went to the Amazon and lived with the Shipibo Indians. KC: How old were you at that time? BF: 17. KC: Really? I mean, that's incredibly gutsy to do something like that... The Amazon! BF: Well, actually, they were former cannibals. KC: Yeah? But... BF: Well, yeah, I had a lot of hair-raising experiences - a machine gun to my head, I got nearly eaten by a bear, got chased by wolves, all that sort of... KC: So you went to the Amazon. You're 17 years old, and you're not going to college. Did your parents have a problem with that? BF: Well, what could they do? I mean, I physically left and disappeared. So, you know... KC: So you were just very independent from a young age? BF: Yeah, I think I sort of... I was spending nights out in the wilderness alone from around age 12 and stuff. For me, I was just really itching to GO. KC: Did your Fulford name... We know about, like, your grandfather was this very well-known Fulford. Was your family considered part of the ruling class in Canada at that point or not? BF: Well, sure. I mean, my great-grandfather was, you know, what would be today a billionaire and a Senator. And my grandfather was an MP, a Member of Parliament for about 20 years and my father was ambassador to different countries. KC: So you would be considered something of a "child of the elite" at that point? BF: Sure. At the same time, I had a very unusual upbringing and we were taught from a very young age, you know, to have a lot of empathy. And I was very disturbed by things I saw as a child in Mexico. I mean, extreme poverty. I'll never forget when I was 7. I met this kid on the street. We played and talked. He was the same height as me and about the same, you know, mental level. And it turned out he was 12. I asked my mother: How can that be? And she said: Well, he doesn't have enough food to eat. And I said: How could such a thing be allowed to happen? It's happening right now to billions of people. They're not allowed to develop their human potential. They're not getting adequate education, adequate nutrition, medical care, NOTHING. I mean, it's a shame that such things are allowed to happen. At the same time, when I was in the Amazon, you know, it was beautiful virgin forest, but they told me that in about 5 years it would be gone because the loggers were coming. So I said: Well, what's out there that's destroying nature and leaving so many people to suffer? How can this be? And to me it was clear that (and this is what you get in a disturbed world, in the street, at the poor level), there's something wrong with the way the westerners were running the planet. And so I decided finally after about 3-1/2 years of traveling and adventures... You know, to compensate for not going to university, I read all the holy books, the Koran, the Bible, Confucius, Lao Tzu, the Bhagavad-Gita, etcetera etcetera. KC: Great. So, were you studying Eastern philosophy before you came to Japan? BF: Well, the mystic stuff. You know meditating, and... KC: I mean, like the I Ching? Have you read that? BF: Sure. Yeah. All that kind of stuff. And, you know, the word on the street level was that something would have to come from the East to help society. So I finally decided I would go to university in Japan. It was a choice between India, China, and Japan, and for various reasons I chose Japan. KC: Did you know at that point you were going into economics? I'm assuming that was, maybe, your major? BF: I just wanted to learn. I didn't think about majors and jobs. In fact, I took every subject there is. I took economics, sociology, anthropology, math, biology, you name it. I took at least up to 3rd year level in all the courses, in all the subjects. KC: Did you graduate with a degree? BF: I eventually got a degree from the University of British Columbia in Asian Studies with a China area specialty. KC: Mm. So you went to British Columbia. BF: I went to Sophia University in Japan for 3-1/2 years. I took, as I say, about 8 years' worth of undergraduate courses, way more than I needed. KC: How did you learn Japanese? BF: Well, two ways. I took a two-month intensive course at the University of British Columbia before coming, and then I arrived in Japan. I spent 3 days at a Japanese school and I said: This is useless. I got a job as a bartender in a bar run by a gangster. It was from 9 p.m. to 5 a.m. It was the sort of place where they had fights and sometimes people come in naked, kind of the lowest level of Japan you could find, basically. But the good thing about the bartending job for learning the language is that drunks keep saying the same thing over and over again, so eventually you pick it up! [Kerry laughs] Also I went to what is called "Futon University." I had a girlfriend who didn't speak English. Kerry: [laughs] Oh, OK... BF: So it was a combination. I would sort of speak like a cross between a gangster and a transvestite, you know, either very womanly or very low level street talk. KC: At this point, that's how you're describing your ability to speak the Japanese language? That's hilarious. BF: I was more or less able to carry on a full conversation after about 6 months. KC: Wow. That's great. So do you write Japanese at all? Can you read it? BF: I've written, I think, over a dozen books in Japanese, many of them best-sellers. KC: Oh, right. And I have to know -- are your books available in English? Because we'd love to read that. BF: No. No. I haven't actually... [long expulsion of breath] I deliberately switched to Japanese a few years ago, after I left Forbes, because I knew that I was dealing with something dangerous and I didn't quite understand what it was. KC: Oh, wow. BF: I remember being warned, for example, by Makiko Tanaka, the former Foreign Minister, and the daughter of Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka who was taken down in the Lockheed scandal. She told us: Hey, if you start looking into this stuff, you're going to get killed. So I knew that there was something very dangerous but I didn't know exactly what it was. So I kind of went underground and started writing in Japanese. Bill Ryan, off camera: At that point, Ben, the "stuff" you are referring to... At that point what was the stuff that you were starting to get into which you were warned about? BF: When I was at Forbes I had already written several stories about the Yakuza, the gangsters, and I got lots of death threats as a result. And the Moscow bureau chief for Forbes, Paul Klebnikov, was shot ten times, you know, outside of his house and taken to the hospital and put into the elevator. And the elevator stopped for 8 minutes. And that's where he died. KC: Wow. And what year was this? Do you know, approximately? BF: Five or six years ago, I think. KC: So at the time, were you working for Forbes or had you just left? BF: I was working for Forbes. He was the Moscow guy, I was the Tokyo guy. I knew him. KC: OK. BF: And around that time, some people from the Osaka newspaper and CBS television came to me and said that the head of the Goto crime syndicate was in UCLA Berkeley University Hospital, getting a liver transplant. Now, this raised a lot of interesting questions. One is, what is a known gangster and criminal doing getting a Visa to the US? And why is a 70-year-old guy like that getting bumped to the top of a long waiting-list for liver transplants? So I start thinking: Well maybe he's doing some work for the CIA or something. And I was going to write this up in Forbes. And before that, I called up a very senior gangster source I knew and told him about this. And he said: Hey, if you write that, you're going to get turned into fish paste. What?!!! I don't respond to threats, I said, and you never threaten. I said: I'm a well-known journalist. If you kill me it'll cause a lot of trouble. We won't kill you, we'll just disappear you. Say goodnight to your girlfriend, and that's it. You'll never be seen again. And then he named a couple of journalists who disappeared. KC: Oh, man. BF: And I remembered. There was a guy, for example, who wrote about how the Goto Gang was selling... The Aum Shinrikyo religious sect was importing amphetamines from North Korea and selling them to the Goto Gang. And he disappeared after writing a few articles like that. And similarly... KC: Has he ever been found? BF: No. Oh no. A whole bunch of ''em disappeared. And a lot of the Japanese journalists told me: The only reason you're still alive is because you're a white guy. If we tried to write that same kind of stuff, we'd be dead. So I knew there were some dangerous people. By the way, this gangster guy, when I told him about the liver transplant thing, finally he said: Look, I won't be able to talk to you again if you write that story. And I thought: OK. This guy is a very senior source and he has given me a lot of valuable information and I don't want to lose this connection over one story. So I decided not to write the story, but it was a very, kind of, bad atmosphere. Then I flew off to Sakhalin... KC: I'm sorry, what's that? BF: Sakhalin, in Russia. The Russian Far East, where they have all the oil and gas now... to do a story. And the local representative of this gang was waiting for me and he took me around. And I was taken to a giant casino with about 400 Chechens standing outside. It was like something in the movies. They all had guns, you know, and they were hired by the Japanese gang as body-guards for their casinos. KC: Wow. Chechens. BF: Chechens, yeah. Working for Japanese gangsters. There's a lot of stuff going on that you just don't see on the surface. KC: Well, we just got back from Moscow, actually. It's a fascinating place. BF: Well, in Asia, you'll find that there's no real line between gangsters and government. It's all a continuum. So you can almost think of these gangsters as ... KC: Well, some would say that's true, you know [Kerry laughs] in the US and Russia, and ... BF: Sure. In the US... I mean, large parts of the CIA are basically organized crime in what they're doing. In large part they're honest people trying to defend their country, but there are groups in there, you know, as we all know-- they smuggle drugs and do all sorts of criminal stuff. KC: Right. BF: Um... So I'm sitting in this "club," and this guy is sitting beside me. (He's not like the one I knew in Tokyo. He was like a high level businessman.) This guy is a little thug, dangerous. You know, not a nice guy. And he's very, very tense. I said: Listen, I wanna go home. He said: No, no, you can't. You're going to be killed or something, right? And I realized I was being set up! I was being set up for a hit! KC: Oh, my. BF: So I think quickly. I point to these two oil men and say: You're gonna have to worry about yourself. See those guys? They're CIA and they're guarding me. Plus, I have a file that will go public if anything happens to me, that names names and puts you all in jail. It was total bluff, OK? I didn't have any such file, and these guys were just oil men, but, you know, what could l do? And the guy just gets up [snaps fingers and makes a noise indicating great speed]... like a rocket, with the phone [makes gesture of phone at ear]. And I pick up my phone and I call the gang boss and say: I'm not here to write about your dealings with Russian gangsters and stuff. I'm here to write about the oil industry. I'm not gonna cause you any trouble. So the guy comes back. He's all relaxed. And I say: OK. Good night. And that's it. [Kerry laughs] Bill: Sounds like something out of a movie. BF: Yeah. But they really did shoot... The Chechens really did shoot my colleague, though, didn't they? That was after this happened to me, but... So, once that took place I did make a file and I still have it- in hard disks and DVDs with voice recordings and videos. For example, a well-known Japanese prime minister has murdered three women and I have the proof in one of these. A lot of stuff like that. But my job is not to try to expose people. OK? That's not where I'm coming from. That was just insurance I had to take out. I don't need that insurance anymore because now I have the secret society backing me, but... Then, my idea... I'm not just trying to expose people. That's not the level I'm at anymore. I'm trying to save the planet. KC: Right. BF: So this stuff will never come out, probably ever, as along as, you know, they don't kill me, basically. If they do, there'll be horrible repercussions of all sorts. But, again, I'm trying to make a win-win situation for everybody. OK? So, now we'll go back to when I just arrived in Japan? Do you want me to talk about that? KC: Well, yeah. But I just kind of wanted to get a nugget of what it was in your Amazon experience that you kind of discovered. Like, what did going there symbolize for you? BF: My thinking was... For example, a fish does not know water until it jumps [gestures fish jumping up]. So, to understand civilization I had to leave it. So I tried different things. In the Amazon they survived on fish and bananas. It was roast bananas and fish soup. Or banana soup and roast fish. Or roast fish and roast bananas. You know, you get the idea. I got tired of it. And I said: Well why don't we get some meat? So OK, we'll go hunting. Spend all day in the jungle, don't get anything, don't catch anything; come back, we're hungry-- there's nothing to eat. So we lose, in civilization, that contact between our working and our eating and our surviving. Kind of... so many layers in between actually getting food from the earth and putting it in our mouths that we don't realize sometimes. So that's the thing I learned there. And the other thing is that these people are much simpler in their communications. They're very straight forward. They say exactly what they think. So you walk in a room and the first thing they think is: Hey, you're fat, and they say it. Where, in civilization, it's much more complex. They say: Oh, you're looking healthy. Or something. They try not to, you know ... KC: The mask is not so deep. BF: Yeah. And the other thing is, these people were former cannibals, so the elders all used to eat human meat when they were young. And it was explained to me that in the rainy season they couldn't get enough fish, so the only way to get protein was to eat their neighbors. Now they survive with canned fish in the rainy season. [Kerry laughs] KC: OK. But did you go there by yourself? I just have to know. BF: Yeah. KC: Completely alone? BF: I hitchhiked and got in a boat and just kind of arrived at the village. KC: Unbelievable. OK. Well, you must have an incredibly strong personality ... BF: Well, I had read, you know, The Teachings of Don Juan, right? And I was looking for a witch doctor, to do an apprenticeship. KC: I see. BF: I actually found a witch doctor and did do an apprenticeship in the Amazon, so... KC: So you have training in magic. BF: Yeah. I can purge river spirits and stuff if you need any of that. I know some of that, herbs and plants and... KC: Right. BF: I did a lot of this stuff called Ayahuasca. KC: Oh, that's like a trippy drug, right? BF: Yeah. At the time there was almost nothing written about it in English, right? Like I say, I had to go right up to the upper reaches of the Ucayali River and out to find the Shipibo Indians to find the stuff. So you can imagine my surprise when I see it for sale on the street here as a legal drug years later [laughs], which it shouldn't be. KC: You mean here in Tokyo? BF: Yes! KC: OK. That's interesting. BF: Well, there's no specific law against it. But, anyway. KC: So. Fast forward: You're in Tokyo, you've gone to college. And did you go apply to work for Forbes at that point? BF: No, my first job... Well, I wanted to write a "theory of everything." But, you know, you can't really pay the bills that way, so the first job I got was with an outfit called Knight-Ridder which was part of the Knight-Ridder newspaper chain? KC: Right. BF: But with their financial wire. So I would go meet the finance ministers and governors of the Bank of Japan and stuff. I wrote all the market news. So my stories would move the dollar, or move the yen, or move the commodities every week, back and forth. It was really amazing to see that. What I learned there as a financial market reporter is that, really, finance is mass psychology. It's modern psychology. And that was a very interesting lesson that you don't learn in the school club. KC: So you learned, like, the power of the written word at that point, right? BF: Well, it's the information and how they all have this story that they're following and they're looking for slight changes. For example, the Governor of the Bank of Japan says: Well, we might tighten interest rates a bit. And [makes noise of explosive speed] everything moves. Right? KC: Mm hm. BF: Or even for the commodities markets. Rumors that China's gonna buy oil, or something like that, will cause everything to move. KC: But tell me something about your background. Because we listened to this interview with the Canadian radio and you show an incredible understanding about the economy of the World, really, and about what makes it tick. And I'm just wondering-- where did you learn everything that you learned about that? BF: Well, of course I did all the, you know, the university classes, in economics and stuff. But, basically, for over 20 years I've been following it, writing about it. I mean, everybody comes to Tokyo... presidents and Prime ministers, finance ministers. You have the G7s and all that stuff... KC: G7 is here right now, is what you mean? BF: Yeah. So I've been following it for over 20 years, at the highest levels. And I've been interviewing gangsters, prime ministers, finance ministers, presidents of big companies, presidents of small companies, you know-- just more than 20 years, almost 30 years, interviewing all sorts of people. KC: So it's an education in itself, I guess, interviewing-- as we find. BF: Yes, and just being a journalist itself. You find that your job is to filter. You suck in huge amounts of information and look for the nuggets that are easy to understand and convey the essence, and you give that to the pubic. So that's the job, you know? You're an information filter. Bill, off camera: But there are other financial journalists out there who're just towing the party line. And this is categorically what you haven't been doing. You're a real maverick in this field. BF: Well, you see, it's very high level propaganda. They're brainwashed. They really, really do not understand, at the essence, what it's all about. And that's the trick. They try to get people sidetracked into esoteric mathematics, and they try to cover it with lots of complex words. So, you know, they've come up with these "derivatives" that are so complex that most people don't even understand what they mean anymore. I remember, even almost 15 years ago or more, talking about "Delta Hedge Formations" [with two hands, draws pyramid shape from top down]. And so they get into this stuff and it blinds them. It's like almost a deliberate, you know, confusion -- because at the essence it's really very simple. Economics is people working to earn their living. And finance is the process of deciding what people will do next. And they try to not let us understand this, especially the part about finance. And that is the key to the world's problems now. KC: So how did you, as a journalist for Forbes... was it gradual the way that you... I can imagine that if you have this knowledge that you have and you have this approach... As a journalist, didn't you get pushed back from Forbes saying "No, don't write this," or "Don't write that"? BF: OK. Maybe I should give you... I'll show you how I discovered things in chronological order. That'll be the easiest way. The first thing I noticed in Japan, that everything was not as it seemed, was when I saw some people lined up at a little booth. And I said: What are you doing? We're changing our prizes for money (from the pachinko, which is a kind of slot machine). And you find out that they have a HUGE gambling industry, with giant neon signs everywhere, that's basically illegal. And yet it functions, openly AND with rules. For example, no matter how hard you could try, it's going to be hard to lose more than $1000 a day at those places. So, here you have a whole system outside of the legal framework and it connects policemen, gangsters, and businessmen, all outside of the so-called "legal apparatus." So this is something that made me realize that something was different about this country. It was not just an Asian version of Canada, which on the surface it is. They have an Upper House and Lower House; they have the Courts and everything. So structurally it's the same. But in essence it's totally different. What I learned was that the so-called "legal democratic system" was a "front" for a very different, REAL power structure. KC: OK. BF: This is something that, you know, I learned in tidbits. First was the pachinko. A friend of mine got beaten up by a gangster in front of a police box. We went to a police box and the police box guy, the policeman said: You shouldn't pick fights with gangsters. That's it. So again, I say: That's weird. But, again, I thought this was just related to gambling and prostitution, which is kind of a gray area anywhere, really. So now, I didn't think much about it until... As a financial journalist with the wire service, it's very important to be quick. If you beat your competitors by 30 seconds, it's considered a big scoop. So you have to find out where the power comes from. And talking, for example, to the bureaucrats at the Agriculture Ministry, they said: Well, if you want to know what's really happening, talk to Mr. Kato Koichi. He was the LDP powerbroker. And he was the man making decisions then. So I got to know him. And once I got called as a pinch-hitter for one of his speeches. And then he came up and made his speech, and he was very impressive. And then he got a big fat envelope of cash. I said: Oh... politics... Ah. You know? [laughs] And then, I thought the Finance Ministry was the REAL source of power in Japan-- that's what people believe-- it was THE most powerful bureaucracy. But when I started talking with the people at the Finance Ministry, they told me, finally: If you really want to know what's going on, you have to go to Nomura Securities. This was in the 80s. It's different now. But in the 80s, during the bubble, Nomura Securities had a "VIP" list of 5,000 people. And they had these two bosses, the big Tabuchi and the little Tabuchi, not related, who were later proved be connected to a big crime gang. But they would take all these journalists, politicians, you know, all the sort of top movers and shakers, and they'd lend them a couple million dollars, and they'd say: Buy this stock. And then, they would take every salesman in the country and all their journalistic connections and say: These are the stocks you gotta buy now. And every housewife and small businessman and doctor would buy these stocks, the price would go up, and the VIPs would sell. So that was how they controlled. Politics. KC: You say it's different now. So how's it different? BF: Well, it's different players, different ways of handing out the money. And in fact, that is the core of the problem which we're dealing with. But we'll do this step by step because it's easier to see the whole story then. KC: Yes. BF: So I got quite cynical about Japan, but the real clincher for me was the Jusen Housing Loan Scandal. This was a bunch of companies that lent only for real estate. And, after the Japanese bubble burst it was the first time they were gonna use tax payer money. By the way, in 1992 the Japanese government already knew they had 200 trillion yen in bad debt. But the newspapers only said 2 or 3 trillion. It wasn't until more than 10 years later that they finally admitted the whole number. And that's what's happening in the US right now. Only they're not gonna have 10 years because they didn't borrow it from other Americans. They borrowed it from the rest of the world. So you'll see HUGE changes ahead. But we'll get to that. KC: OK. Bill, off camera: There is a question I'd like to bookmark, because I remember that you said to Rense that you felt that, in your opinion, the US debt was $120 trillion. I went and looked it up and thought, I wonder where that figure comes from. So I'd like to ask you that. BF: I can tell you right now. The $66 trillion comes from the essay by a Professor Killborn that was published by the St. Louis Federal Reserve Board branch in 2005. And that's the money they owe to American citizens, you know, stuff they promised to pay, like Medicaid and Social Security and things like that. It's in that essay. You can find it. Now the other $53 trillion is the amount of dollars out in circulation outside the US. So add them together and you get $120 trillion. Bill: 120's a lot. BF: Yes! And not only that, a GDP of $13 trillion. You know, this is where the whole scam unravels. But we'll get to that. KC: OK. So, you've got the housing... BF: All right. So, here's the point. I was working for the Nihon-Keizai Shimbun at this point. It's like the Japanese Wall Street Journal. It's in Japanese, but it's their number one business/finance newspaper by far. And they were talking about pouring in tens of billions of dollars in tax payer money to bail out these companies. And there were some weird discussions about ... ah ... "borrower responsibility." Borrower responsibility ... What's going on here? And so I turned to them and said: Well, who are the borrowers? And it turns out-- my sources were people at the Bank of Japan and various other agencies like credit rating agencies-- that more than half the loans were made to gangsters, to Yakuza gangs. So, to me it was an amazing thing. Here we have the government using tens of billions of dollars of tax payer money to bail out companies that lent money to gangsters-- and, they were all headed by former Finance Ministry officials. So you see a link now between the Finance Ministry officials, the politicians, and gangsters. And they're using tax payer money to give to the gangsters, right? So I wrote this up in the English Nikkei and there was a HUGE reaction. Over 400 foreign journalists and magazines wrote similar stories-- Half the housing loans were to gangsters, right? And then Newsweek wrote a story almost identical to mine. And then the Nikkei, my own paper, said: "According to Newsweek, half the loans to the jusen companies are to Yakuza." And I went to the editor. I said: Hey, I wrote that story first. Why do you say "According to Newsweek"? They called me up and they gave me the Editor's Award and $50.00 [laughs] and then they told me: Mr. Fulford, you know, you really shouldn't write stuff like that. It's just not done, and it could be dangerous. And after that they started watching me. They would not let me write anything except the stuff the government announced. KC: Wow. This is after you left Forbes? You're writing for the... BF: Before I got to Forbes. KC: Oh, before you got to Forbes. OK. BF: All right? So I started to realize that the Japanese press was not at all free. KC: Right. BF: And it turns out there was an editor at the Nikkei, Mr. Otsuka, who won a bunch of awards for writing about the Itoman scandal... and then he was suddenly sent off to some weird subdivision and removed from the reporting business. And he got very suspicious. He started following the president around. It turns out they lent like a hundred million dollars to gangsters, money that would never come back. And the Itoman scandal was another huge one where, basically, one of Japan's largest banks, the Sumitomo Bank, had been taken over by a crime syndicate. That's what the story really boiled down to. It's a long complicated thing, but... Anyway, I started to realize that the newspapers and the politicians and the bureaucrats and the gangsters were all in together in some kind of crooked power structure that was totally different from what people were seeing on their television and reading in their newspapers. And I got totally disgusted when they started suppressing my stories. So I quit the Nikkei. I worked as a freelancer for a while for the South China Morning Post and a bunch of places before I got the job with Forbes. And at first the people at Forbes were happy to let me write stories about gangsters. I did one on Public Works that got a formal letter of protest from the Japanese Embassy in Washington. I thought: Gosh, I hit a sore point. Right? And then another story I did... When they were finally starting to clear up the bad debt with the banks, I was finding that all sorts of people were dying. And this was either committing suicide or disappearing, whatever. But this was not a typical, what you call hara-kiri suicide, where you did something bad and you kill yourself to apologize. It was people who were going to testify, people who were going to... yeah... prosecute people. For example, there was a financial scandal, and the president of Dai-Ichi Kangyo Bank which is now part of Mizuho, was due to testify. The day before he was going to testify, at 11 o'clock at night his wife left the house and about 10 men in black clothing showed up, the lights turned off, then they left. At around 1 a.m. the wife came home and he was dead. And they said it was a suicide. Now this came from the English version of the Yomiuri newspaper. It did not appear in the Japanese version. OK? At this point I had made lots of gangster connections because I had realized that to understand what's going on in finance, you need to talk to gangsters. Otherwise, you don't know what is going on at all. KC: OK. BF: And so... there was a bank called the Nippon Credit Bank that turned into Aozora Bank. (I think it's now owned by one of the US hedge funds. Maybe Carlyle? I can't remember. I'll have to check.) But, anyway, the director from the Bank of Japan, Mr. Honma, was made president. Two weeks later he was found hung, and they said it was a suicide. I knew this guy from when I used to cover the Bank of Japan. There's NO WAY he could have committed suicide. So I asked my gangster buddy. He said: Well, I'll check out with the guys down in Osaka. And he calls and I meet him again and he says: Well, what happened was, they pointed a gun at him, told him to write his will, and they injected him with a sleeping drug and they hung him. And of course I cannot write a story based on an anonymous gangster. And I knew he was a gangster because I had a detective agency confirm for me he really was what he said he was, a senior boss of one of the biggest gangs. So I called the hotel where they found his body and they said: Yeah, well, you know the place where they found his body, there as nowhere to hang himself from. Right? So I called the police and said: Well, you said you found the body by the window but there's nowhere he can hang himself by the window. So the police change it: Oh, well, we found him in the bathroom. And there was a Japanese TV personality in the room next door, Kumiko Mori. In Japan she does the voice of Pikachu from the, what is it? Pokemon? KC: Oh Yeah. Pokemon. BF: Anyway, she's well known in Japan, and she wrote in her book that there was screaming and moaning in the room next door and she couldn't sleep and there's no way that could have been a suicide. And I confirmed that with her manager. And apparently he was killed because of a bunch of loans to North Korean credit cooperatives. He was going to call in his bad loans. And if he did that he would have exposed a huge North Korean ruling party underground link. The North Koreans have been sending pachinko money to Japan, importing amphetamines, doing all sorts of stuff and to get the police to turn a blind eye they paid huge bribes to the ruling party over the years. So... KC: Did you write about this? BF: I wrote it in Forbes, yeah. KC: Yeah? BF: Yeah. It's there. Oh, you know, the editors were such chickens that they really took a lot out of that story, but it's still there. You can still find it. So I started digging deeper. But then suddenly Forbes starts putting pressure on me. I had a story about G.E. doing some very funky accounting here involving billions of dollars and, you know, they killed it without explanation. And then CitiGroup was kicked out of Japan for, you know, money laundering for gangsters. They were kicked out. And that story didn't run. Right? And finally what, for me, was the last straw was an anti-virus software company paid a guy to make a virus! A computer virus, right? And I talked to the guy that made the virus, you know. (He's some guy living in a Filipino slum but he's got a brand new $20,000 car, you know?) He said to me: Well, this guy, the president of the company, is a friend of Mr. Forbes and he's bought a lot of advertising. And so we're not running the story. KC: Ahhh. So they actually told you ... BF: The editor told me that, you know: We have problems with your facts, Mr. Fulford. You know, fact-checking. This is their trick, you know. They raise the hurdle higher and higher. Facts. For example: You saw 'em in bed together. Are you sure? That doesn't mean they were makin' love? Was there a blanket on top? No, there's no blanket. Well, did you see the actual penetration? Well, no, his butt was in the way. Ah, then. We don't know. You can't confirm it. So, that's their trick. That's how they train the corporate media. They raise... But anyway, the business manager told me the real reason. KC: OK. BF: The advertising and stuff. So, you know, I get one thing from the editor, another thing from the business manager. So I got totally disgusted and alienated, right? So after that the quality of my work at Forbes degenerated because I just didn't give a f... damn. I was gonna quit. I was getting ready to quit. Um... At that point a book of mine appeared in Japanese and became a best-seller. I didn't need the income. KC: A book about what? BF: Well, just the first... KC: This isn't the Rockefeller one, is it? BF: No-no-no. This was stuff that came out a long time ago, some of the stuff I just told you about-- the murders and the other stuff going on, things about Japanese corruption. And a lot of people in Japan, you know, knew something like this was going on. And so, anyway, I wrote several best- sellers like that. So I had an independent income. But what really made things click for me was, I was on a TV debate show with some of Japan's top politicians. And I said: These are the guys running this country??? Come on! You gotta give me a break! They're retards! (I'm sorry to say this, but they're not high caliber.) OK? I'm debating with them. What on earth is going on? Now I know of course they're just actors reading a script, but at the time I thought: My god, I could do better! This suddenly was, like... It was truly enormous. The thought when I realized: Oh my god, the Japanese have 5 trillion dollars in overseas assets. That's enough money to end poverty and stop environmental destruction - then why don't they use it? And I decided, hell, you know, I could become a cynical alcoholic, you know, foreign correspondent old fart, like I see so many of at the Foreign Correspondents' Club. Their careers spiral up and then they just spend years coasting along getting bitter and cynical. And I said, no, to hell with that. I'll become a Japanese citizen, I'll try to run for office and I'll try to convince them to use this money to save the world. You know, that makes so much sense. But, at the same time, though, I was very confused and bitter. Right? And I wasn't sure. Another part of me was saying: Well, you should write a book about Japan and then leave the country and go to Hollywood and try to become a script writer or something. So there's two conflicting ideas in my mind. You know, I had that one idea and it was just too big and too... It's no, no- it can't be real. Right? So I wrote two chapters that would have really named names, specific politicians, specific crimes, specific gangsters. It would have been so much of an expose I would have had to either leave Japan or be killed after the book was published. The very day after I sent the two chapters to my agent - in English - I got a call from the granddaughter of the Meiji emperor, Kaoru Nakamaru, and she said to me: You know, Mr. Fulford, you really should not get the Yakuza angry. And: Are you sure that's what you really want to do? Isn't there something else you'd rather do? (I'm like: Why is it this lady calling me? What's this timing?) And she tells me that a "goddess" had contacted her through the astral plane and was worried about me! Well, it turns out the "goddess" was the Japanese Security Police! [both laugh] But... whatever. She still insisted it was a goddess. Only one time did she tell me it was the police; all the other times she said it was a goddess. But anyway, it doesn't matter. It was the timing, and what she really wanted to do was that something else. And I realized, YES, you know, I want to save the world. And unlike so many people that want to do that, I actually had a concrete method, with this $5 trillion dollars. Well... that's enough money! And you can't take that money out of the US because that would ruin the US economy; so you have to pay Americans to do it, right? So that they benefit as well. Otherwise... You know, in the past what happened is that a Japanese politician threatened to take that money out of the US. Well, then the US would get very angry and try to crush that politician. Right? So, I said, OK we'll do it in such a way that the Americans benefit too, then they can't complain. And this is what I started saying. I started writing books along those lines: Why don't the Japanese save the world? KC: OK. BF: But what happened though was this Meiji emperor's granddaughter handed me a 9/11 video and said: Look, Mr. Fulford. You know all about the corruption in Japan, but you have no idea about the corruption in the World. Right? KC: OK. BF: And when she gave me that I was shocked. I said: Oh my god, I read about this in the New York Times. This is some anti-Semitic thing. I'm not gonna look at that! You know? Because we've all been trained... anti-Semitic equals Nazi, which equals death chambers. Right? And you don't want to be involved with people who want to kill millions of innocent people. Right? So this is the sort of thinking I had. So I wasn't even gonna look at it, because I had it all associated. And she kept calling me: Did you watch it? No, I didn't watch it. Finally, I said: Oh man. I'll watch 10 minutes so I can tell her I watched it. And when I did, it was like the scales fell off my eyes, as they say in Japanese. It's like... Remember, I was a financial journalist for a long time and because so many people read what you write, it moves markets. There is a constant barrage of people trying to feed you BS information, which means you build very high immunity to false information. KC: OK. BF: So I knew. This is something very, very weird because... And the problem that most people at the high level of western society have with the 9/11 thing is, they say: I don't care what evidence they show me, there's no way on earth that the New York Times, Washington Post, BBC would be reporting this. Because to accept that it was a cabal in the US government that did this, it means to accept that the entire belief system you have about your society is wrong. KC: Uh huh. BF: But, having experienced what I did at Forbes with censorship and what I knew about the Japanese corruption, I started to do the research to find out what's been going on here. And the answer is, essentially, that European society is not really "democratic" any more. It's a plutocracy combined with an aristocracy and the "democracy" is kind of a way of keeping tabs on the "sheep" sentiment, you know, keeping them... giving them a way to vent their frustrations within very restricted boundaries. So... uh... You know, there are many different words out there that people use and it makes it very hard... A lot of people have trouble, even now, believing this stuff. So, what I'm able to do is I can show you, within the normal matrix of financial reports, Wall Street Journal stuff, how to trace it. OK? And what you need to do, what I did finally to figure this out, is you go back to the 1918 edition of Forbes and their first "Rich List". And you find that the top 10 richest Americans controlled 70% of the money in the country. KC: Mm hm. BF: John Rockefeller the First was worth about $30 billion in today's money. And I think he controlled 25% of all the wealth in the US at the time. The reason why the Rockefellers do not appear as so "Rich" in the Forbes list (and remember, one of my jobs was to identify billionaires and count their money) was because it's put in as a "charitable foundation", and in fact they have hundreds of them [foundations]. Rockefeller, Carnegie, Brookings, a whole alphabet soup of them. But each generation of the Rockefeller family and the other families, the Morgans, which are the Bush people and stuff... You can see that they inherit the power. They still control that money. And they have a system so that each generation has one person in charge. So it's like a kind of hidden aristocracy. Instead of inheriting land, they inherit assets and everybody who works within those assets is like a peasant working on the lord's estate. So, if you work for Standard Oil, you're a Rockefeller serf in a way, because they have the ultimate control. KC: OK. That's the Rockefeller side of things. Are you also able to trace it from the Rothschilds, the European side? BF: Yeah. Now, the Rothschild thing goes back 300 years, basically. I think this is well known stuff but I can summarize it for you. The first Rothschild to appear set up in Frankfurt with a "red shield" and changed his name ("red shield" ... "Rothschild." Right?) And the local king was gonna get involved in a war and Rothschild said: I'll lend you a bunch of money and if you lose you don't have to pay me back. If you win, I'd like to be your banker. And of course, when he had all this extra money, he could hire lots more extra soldiers and he won. And here we have the beginning of a link between royalty and finance - kings like wars; wars cost money - and the process of inter-marriage between these financial and aristocratic families began. Well, it's been going on for 300 years. The next big thing is: He had five sons and they were sent to different parts of Europe. And they were only bankers to kings, you know, at the very highest level. And Nathan Rothschild went to England. He started out buying cloth and selling it. And he started realizing: If I control the dye-makers and the cloth-makers and put it all together I can make more profit. So he was exporting British textiles at first. He got richer and richer and his big, big coup came in the Battle of Waterloo, where the British Exchange... Everyone was wondering, you know, if the British were gonna win or lose, right? And they knew the Rothschilds had very fast information, quicker than anyone else. My assumption is they were involved in insider trading with the King, OK? Because suddenly Rothschild started selling everything, just sell whatever you got; sell, sell, sell. And everyone thought: Oh my god, the British lost, the British lost. And stuff that was worth 100 would fall down to like 2 or 3. And they were in panic: Oh my god, sell what you have for chance, we're all gonna be Napoleonic slaves anyway. And then when it fell down, he started buying it all up. And the news came-- The British won. And what had been 100 rose to 200 and he controlled most of British wealth after that time. And he said -- this is a famous quote; I don't know the exact words-- "I don't care what fool sits on the crown of England. Whoever controls the money of England controls England. And I control the money of England." However, you know, I think the Rothschilds had very deep religious convictions and were at heart fairly decent people. The reason I say that is because, although they apparently financed and engineered the US Revolution in 1776-- with East India Company money-- they also financed and engineered the Meiji reforms. But these are good things, in many ways. Canada has always been Rothschild territory, and Canada is a very nice country, you know? So I don't think they're on the same level. Their system was basically, you know, ancient Babylonian royalties. And this is where it gets really weird and esoteric, but it goes back 5,771 years. The Rothschilds used to say they were descendants of Nimrod, who conquered the peoples of Babylonia -- they were a herding people, a pastoral people. And they [the Rothschild predecessors] conquered the peoples of Babylonia, or present-day Iraq. And they said: Well isn't there some way we can herd people the way you herd sheep? And they came up with a system. You have to control their food supply; you have to control their information supply; and you have to have means of violence to discipline them. And this was the start of the Bible, the Old Testament, where they took all the different stories people had and put it in one story. And this was the only story that people were allowed to have. http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/benjamin_fulford_interview_transcript_1_en.html The Ultimatum : Benjamin Fulford - Part 2 Tokyo, Japan, February 2008 (continued from Part 1) (continued in Part 3) Start of interview Kerry Cassidy: So, we're at the Rothschilds. Right? And Babylonia, Nimrod, and all that. But, this is the Illuminati you're talking about, right? Benjamin Fulford: Well, I mean, you can call it Illuminati or you can call it the King's Court. You know, there's a lot of problem people have with semantics, right? So for example, if you talk about Freemasons and Illuminati, a lot people say: Oh all that crazy stuff, associated with reptiles and funky UFO things. Right? And their mind is shut. But if you tell them: No, no. It's like a "plutocracy" and "aristocracy," then they don't have these associations that have been put in their brain, and they can absorb the information. I started looking up how the ancient Sumerian society was managed and you find that it's really quite similar to the modern United States. In Japan they used to call the Finance Ministry the "Big Warehouse" Ministry. But in the old days you'd have a whole bunch of people who did not grow their own food anymore. Right? And you'd have these surpluses. So they'd store this extra wheat in big warehouses, and it would be the high priests who would control the distribution of the food to the masses. And this is now what we call "central bankers." But behind the high priests was a king who had god-like powers. And they created the story that there was a "god" who could see and know everything. And it was an abstract one. So it existed in parallel with the real guy with a beard on a throne who had god-like powers. So this is the system that still exists. And remember, if you control the food supply, then you can hire warriors and intellectuals and control society-- control their thinking, control their food, and control them through violence if necessary. And that's how it works even now. That's why it's so important to understand that finance is control over your food supply, control over your… Bill Ryan: Control over your energy supply as well. BF: Energy supply. Yes. But I mean, at the end of the day, it's food. Without it you die. KC: OK. And basically you keep people busy by sending them to war. Right? BF: OK. If we fast-forward…As a Canadian I was always kind of proud of the War of 1812. I thought: Hey, if little Canada managed to hold off the United States… But apparently what happened was that in 1812 the American Republic decided not to renew Rothschild's banking license and the American people took control of their own money. And that's why Rothschild invaded the United States and that was the real reason for the War of 1812. (That's why you have in your anthem: "Oh say can you see by the dawn's early …" a flag and a fort that survived a British attack.) So, you know, a lot of our history is hidden. But, for the next century the Rothschilds plotted and schemed to get back control of the United States money supply and therefore the American people. I can believe they had their ideals, you know. They got the best and the brightest and they would debate, you know, how to do the greatest good for the greatest number. I think there were quite enlightened and liberal aspects to what they did. I mean if you just look at how the societies like Holland, Canada, and stuff, that were under their control… you can see they're really quite nice places for all sorts of different levels of people. But what happened was (and this is how I analyze the situation now)-- to take over control of the United States, they tried many things. I think they engineered the Civil War. But they got Carnegie, Harriman, to control the railroads and the steel production. And the way they did it was, they would lend them the money, but they'd lend it in such a way that eventually they would have to give the railways to the Rothschilds. It was a very clever scheme. We have, I think, William Avery Rockefeller-- was a horse thief and a seller of fake medicine. And this was according to Pulitzer's newspaper who I think had a big expose on the father of John Rockefeller the First. But John Rockefeller the First was into oil and he would buy the refineries. He would come up to a guy at an oil refinery and offer him cash and a low price. If the man refused to sell, he'd cause problems with the workers or maybe sabotage, whatever necessary. And the Rothschilds took note of this Rockefeller guy and they decided they'd help him. And they would allow him to transport his oil at much cheaper rates than all his competitors. So he got the oil monopoly. And I think most people know about this now, but in 1913, finally the Rockefellers, the Harrimans, the Warburgs, this group of families, were able to take over the Federal Reserve Board, supposedly on behalf of the Rothschilds. But I do believe that Rockefeller staged a sort of coup d'etat. He said: Hey, I control the American Army and I control the American economy, and so I'll cooperate with you, but I'm in charge here. And he took over the United States. So I think you became a Rockefeller fief, not a Rothschild one. They meet and they cooperate. KC: Right. So to this day, you feel that there's cooperation? BF: I think there is some cooperation. I think there is also conflict. And you can see this, for example, in the pattern of UN resolutions. For example, the Europeans have consistently voted for Israel to solve its problems with the Palestinians based on something like 1967 UN agreements, you know, with some modifications. And it's the Americans and the Israelis who have always vetoed all sorts of different things. So if you look at the pattern of European vs. American voting in the UN, you can see the difference between the two sides. KC: Right. So where does Japan fall in this group? BF: OK. Now in Japan what happened was, after Admiral Perry came, Lord Rothschild sent a fleet and they attacked the Satsuma and Choshu clans in the south. And they had the Kinmu Emperor murdered and they installed a 16 year old boy by the name of Toranosuke Omura as the Meiji Emperor. And they financed the modernization of Japan. So they set up the royal family, the Emperor, in power, and they helped him modernize Japan. And they fought the Russians. And I think the Japanese were very grateful. And in 1903, after the victory, you know, the Japanese Emperors were made par with British royalty. Every Emperor goes to Oxford to study. But I think that after World War II the Japanese started to get disillusioned because they were not treated as equals. They were not given what they felt a fair deal. They felt there was racism. And this was the essential reason why the British Empire never became a real world empire. Because they'd take some very intelligent Indian gentleman, educate him at Oxford and give him the highest levels of knowledge, but at the end of the day they'd say: Well, you're a wog. You're a bloody wog, so you're just going to have to work for us. If they had made it possible for someone like Gandhi to be the head of the entire British Empire-- in other words, let them in, let them join the upper ranks-- they would still be in control of the planet to this day. But because they were saying essentially, you know: At the very top it's a white man's club and you guys are just high level servants, well, they alienated them. KC: OK. But how does this relate to World War II and you know the whole… I mean, the Americans eventually… You're saying Rockefeller helped the Japanese up to a point. BF: No, no. I'm saying Rothschild helped the Japanese. KC: OK. BF: But in the 1930s the Japanese made a break for independence. They wanted to set up the Southeast Asia Co-Prosperity sphere. They wanted to modernize all the "yellow" countries so that they could stop colonization by the whites. That's how they looked at it. Unfortunately, the Japanese are an island people and they're not very good at relations. But what you have to also realize is that history is written by the winners and so the reason the Japanese were able to take over most of China and were only stopped by US invasion, was because a lot of the Chinese actually welcomed them. This is something that you don't read in your history books. But there was an attempt by the Asians to prevent being colonized. They looked at the Europeans as, like the Borg in Star Trek – only one way of thinking is correct. Can you imagine this giant pyramid of a society, with this Eye at the top: "You Will Be Assimilated," you know. "Resistance Is Futile." It's how they looked at it, and there's something to it. There's a sense that if it's not done the western way, it's wrong. A good example is the pachinko. I mean, they do have gambling and it does work but it's not within the western-style legal framework. It's in a separate framework. The same way as the bureaucrats… they defied the law. And that's a more living, fast-reacting system than, you know, using endless courtroom battles. I mean, Americans are, what, 4% of the world's population, 20-some% of world GDP, but 50% of the world's lawyers, and 50% of the world's military expenditures. So, you know, a lot too much time is spent arguing and fighting, as far as the Asians are concerned. [laughs] You've got to remember, they look at things very differently and it takes a long time to understand their perspective. KC: OK. But you wrote a book about Rockefeller and his role. BF: OK. What happened was, once I started to understand all this, I realized that, after World War II ended, control of Japan went from the Rothschilds to the Rockefellers. And at first they said to the Japanese: You just go ahead and develop your economy any way you want. Rebuild your economy and as long as you're militarily allied to the US, that's all we care about. Right? Until the 1980s, when Japan had these huge trade surpluses and this made them [Rockefellers] very, very nervous. And I now realize why, because they [Japanese] thought they had won World War 3 without firing a single shot because they had managed to control most of the world's financial assets. And money is power. If you have that money you can hire the soldiers, you can hire the intellectuals, you can… KC: So how are you saying Japan did this? BF: By working hard and generating trade surpluses. KC: OK. Electronics? BF: Electronics, cars, you know, nice products that people want to buy. And, you know, they [Japanese] had the control of the money. This is where they [Rockefellers] started to get worried. And they set out to kind of put the Japanese back in their place. And they managed to get them with this bubble, which was basically on US orders. They said: First of all, we want you to raise your yen. Right? Because they didn't want the Japanese to have control of the money. And the yen went from 360 to the dollar to, at one point, 79 to the dollar. But all that happened was, the Japanese moved their industrial base to China and Southeast Asia and got them rich. Right? So that didn't work. So finally what they were doing was, they were bullying and killing Japanese politicians. KC: Who was? BF: The Rockefellers, I would say, at the end of the day. In order to make sure they never were presumptuous enough to use their money the way they wanted to, but rather just hand it to the Americans. And I still haven't checked this out, but I'm pretty sure if you add up all the Japanese trade surpluses and the numbers and then compare it to what is now officially recognized as Japanese assets, you'll find that the trade surplus is much bigger. In other words, it's like… you go to a bar and you say: Put it on my tab. And then after a few years you say: Well look, forget about half my tab. Let's just, you know, forget about it. And so the idea is that we'll just keep taking money from you forever. It's like tribute payments to the Roman Empire. They send cars and they send TVs and they get nothing back except paper. This is how they look at it, and it's right. For 34 years the Americans have been getting stuff from all over the world and not paying for it. Bill: Why have the Japanese then tolerated that for so long? BF: Yeah. Um… First of all, after World War II they truly and genuinely fell in love with the United States. You know, they were told they were gonna be tortured and stuff. I remember this guy shivering in fear about the war, when American soldiers were coming, and they're gonna torture him, and what're they gonna do? And the guy gives him a Hershey Bar, right? This was symbolic. They were really well treated. And up until the fall of the Soviet Union they also really felt that they needed the Americans to protect them. And they had created this illusion of fear, right? If you don't' have us, you're going to be conquered. But the only thing… They've been subjected to very intense propaganda since the end of World War II. There was a Doctor Funai, a well known guy here in Japan, who had a senior American officer stay at his house after World War II. And the officer said to him: We're going to change your education system so you don't get any more geniuses. And they did. The propaganda the Japanese have been subjected to is that, first of all, they've been given an inferiority complex; second, they've been told that America's a wonderful country; and third, they've been told that without American protection they're doomed. And their education has been deliberately "dumbed down" so they don't know how to argue, they don't know how to debate. They've been trained not to have opinions. KC: But isn't this also part of the Oriental mindset that even the Emperors kind of push down to the people? BF: Um… There is something to the traditional Confucian model, right? But in the traditional Confucian model, the key is that the people at the top have to be true models of modest behavior. I mean, they have to be very morally upright and treat their country like their family, like their kids, and be nice to them. So that's the difference in philosophy. It's not just one of blind obedience to a tyrant, but rather, ideally it's like a generous and gentle father-figure which, is what they aspire to. So what you see in North Korea is a remnant. What you saw with the Maoist thing was this traditional sort of kinship system of Asia. KC: Right. So there's a built-in respect for power and authority and figures on top, thinking that they're beneficent. BF: Yes. KC: But that's naiveté at the same time. I mean, your explanation has to be a little bit simplistic in terms of why they would accept this kind of "dumbing down," as you call it, of Japanese society across the board. What was in it for them? BF: Well, first of all, when you enslave a person, you beat the hell out of them, and then you be really nice to them. And in effect you say: Hey, if you do what I say I'll be really nice to you and treat you well but remember, if you don't… That's what those nuclear bombs were about. KC: OK. BF: But also, I mean, the Japanese were able to develop their economy. They were left alone, you know, for a long time. It's only in recent years that it's become kind of really bad, noxious. OK? There's an illness at the heart of the American system. And what it boils down to, if you look at financial flows, OK? Money has been going from the poor countries to the rich countries. And within the rich countries it's been going from the poor to the rich. It's like a giant sponge sucking up all this life energy. The poorest people on the planet, you know, they're forced by agribusiness and other things, to the lowest level, and the only thing they can do is sit on something even lower, the poor little weak creatures. They have to burn down forests to make new farmland because they've used up their farmland and they don't get access to fertilizer, so they have to, you know, ravage the planet. So, the source of poverty and environmental problems in the world is the people who own the Federal Reserve Board and their policies of prioritizing the rich, and everything to the rich. And that is the essence of the problem. And the Japanese have had their savings stolen from them and they've been forced to adopt economic policies that have increased poverty here. The so- called reforms that Prime Minister Koizumi and Heizo Takenaka were forced by the Americans, through blackmail, to impose on the Japanese have meant that… A recent survey by the Asahi newspaper shows that the amount of people who think their lives have gotten worse since these reforms began is more than double the amount of people that think it got better. They have created a society split between the very rich and the poor. American society is also the same. American male workers' salaries peaked in 1973, and they've been falling ever since. So, if you look at the gross mean product… in other words, the level at which half the people are below and half the people are above, you'll find it's very close to the poverty line. They've been taking money. It's really just too much money has been going to the rich and they haven't had proper ways to spend it. And they've been deluded into thinking that the problem with the environment is too many brown people burning down forests, and so the answer is to get rid of them. And they have been manufacturing diseases. There is solid evidence that AIDS (HIV) was made by the US military as a bio-weapon against Africa. And… KC: What about SARS? BF: SARS is a bio-weapon that targets a specific gene that is very prevalent among Asians but almost never found among Caucasians. So, it's a race- specific bio-weapon. KC: So let's get down to this whole association you had with the Yakuza on the one hand, the Chinese secret society… BF: All right. As I started to understand how things really work, my understanding of news events became very different, because I could merge the two, you know, the conspiracy world and the Wall Street Journal world, into one. Right? KC: Right. BF: I got an opportunity to interview Heizo Takenaka last year, in the spring, and I confronted him with a lot of evidence. In 2003, in February I believe, he told Newsweek Magazine that no bank was too big to fail. And he imposed some arcane economic rules that forced the companies to sell their cross-share holdings. In other words, the banks and the companies used to own each others' shares so no outsider could come in and make a hostile takeover. And he forced the companies to sell their bank shares. And he put out that no bank was too big to fail and everyone thought that meant that the bank shares would be worth nothing. It's like I say: I'll sell you my wallet. There's no money in it, but there's bills. And if you buy it, you have to pay the bills. Well, nobody's gonna buy it. Except you tell your friends: Hey listen, I'm gonna put 2.3 trillion yen of taxpayer money in that wallet later, so it's a bargain. Right? So, what happened was, the stock price of the banks plummeted in 2003. And if you look at who bought it, you'll find that it's bought by foreigners: State Street Bank, Chase Manhattan, CitiBank. In other words, a group of financial institutions that are controlled by these "charitable foundations" that are in turn controlled either by the Rothschilds or the Rockefellers, mainly the Rockefellers. Well, these families. I use "Rockefeller" as an abbreviation for this group of inbred aristocratic families, the American side versus the European side. The Bushes are part of it, for example. KC: Right. BF: So you can actually see it in the financial data. And what happened was, the president of Resona Bank did not want to sell his bank to these foreigners. And they have over a 33% share, which is what gives them controlling interest. And he also sold the Postal Savings. It was sort of like a gangster husband saying to his wife: Hey, come on, give me more money. I've got no more. Hey what about that Postal Bank? You've still got that. Give it to me. You know? It's what it boils down to. But anyway, getting back to Resona. The president didn't want to hand over his shares, unlike the other banks - they all meekly comply. And so what happened was, he said: Hey, I'm not bankrupt. And so the accountant in charge of Resona died in mysterious circumstances. It was sort of a suicide or a murder. And suddenly the accounts showed that they were bankrupt. And at the time the ruling party policy system is saying: If you've got even $100,000, $200,000, buy Resona shares. It's gonna be a big deal. And then there was a professor at Waseda University, by the name of Uekusa, who started to say: Hey, you know, there's something very fishy going on about Resona. And he was arrested in Yokohama for looking at a girl's underwear with a mirror. The woman in question never actually filed a complaint, but never mind. He was fired from his job, taken off of his TV shows. I was also blacklisted around that time. I was taken off a lot of TV shows. They said: You're on a black list, Mr. Fulford. We can't put you on the show anymore. KC: Why? BF: Because I came in like other guys who were pointing out the BS about these so-called economic reforms. And they didn't want people to know what was really going on. Anyway, a Mr. Ohta from the Tax Department also started investigating Resona for tax evasion and stuff. And he was arrested in Yokohama for looking at a girl's underwear with a mirror. And then, Mr. Suzuki from the Asahi newspaper who had a big scoop years ago with the Recruit scandal put out in December 17th, year before last, an article saying that Resona was giving 10 times more donations to the ruling party than other banks and that there was a suspicion of insider trading. It was supposed to be part of an investigative series. That night they found his body in Yokohama Bay. OK? So I confronted Mr. Takenaka with all this information. I have it on video. I have not released the video because Mr. Takenaka started telling me that he was forced to do it because the United States threatened to hit Japan with HAARP if they didn't. OK? KC: OK. And what would have been the impact of that? Tell us what that meant to Japan. BF: Earthquake. KC: OK. BF: Ahm …. We'll get into that more, because I know this starts getting into really esoteric things. It's almost mind-boggling, you know? KC: Yeah. BF: I mean, I had a lot of trouble wrapping my mind around this stuff for a long time. After I interviewed Takenaka I got an email from someone at the Japan Development Bank who is a disciple of Mr. Takenaka. And he said to me: There's someone Mr. Takenaka would like you to meet. And I have the copies of the original email, too. And so I go to a Shinjuku Hotel room and I meet a man wearing a fancy silk kimono. OK? I have a photograph of him and I have a tape recording of this conversation. OK? And he had two rings. [Holding up right hand balled into a fist] One was a mask of a devil with horns and [holding up left hand balled into fist] the other looked like a wedding ring. And he'd go like this-- [thrusts right fist toward camera while raising left hand with open palm toward camera] and there was a Freemason mark [on the open palm]. And he says: These horns, just put a little bit of poison on them… and touch me and I'd be dead. And he tells me he's a Ninja, which is a professional assassin. And I - you know - AHHH. And the guy looks very different from the average Japanese. He's a member of the Sanka, or Mountain, people. They're like the Ainu. They're sort of like, maybe, the Japanese equivalent of an Apache. Very warlike. They're used by Japanese Special Forces. He says to me: Mr. Fulford, if you want to be, you know, a muck-raking journalist, go ahead and do so, but you will die at age 46. However (and he gives me a big Freemason badge), he says: If you don't, you have a choice. You can become Finance Minister of Japan. OK? So he's offering me a choice between death or the job of Finance Minister. And again, I have this on tape. I have the email trail. I have the video of my interview with Takenaka. OK? So, it's weird stuff but I have the proof. Anyway, I thought that I would have no choice but to go along. But I had been reading about, you know, population reduction plans, and so I asked him: Is it true? (And I have this on tape, too) He said: Yes. In order to protect the environment we need to reduce the world's population to 2 billion. And war just doesn't do it, so we're gonna try to use disease and starvation. KC: Who told you this? BF: The self-described Ninja sent by Takenaka. Right? And, you know, I had already found out that SARS was a bio-weapon targeted at Asians. So this was very disturbing! You're talking about killing 4 billion people. Right? So they're offering me the job… And he just said to me: Look, we're taking money from the Japanese, but we're not, you know, cutting out their flesh from their bones, we're just skimming off the fat. Right? That's how they describe it. We're looting these peoples' money but we're not gonna kill 'em, you know. And he said the population of Japan would be reduced to 70 million. They'd allow 70 million to live. And they need about 500 million Asians to keep making toys and stuff, you know? He's describing, you know, massive genocide. OK? Again, I have it on tape. I can prove this man was sent to me by Takenaka. So the very next day, OK, again… KC: So what did you say to this guy? I'm just curious. Did you say yes at that point? Or did you say let me think about it? And he said OK, or … BF: Well, you know, it was all too overwhelming. I didn't give any clear answer but I thought maybe I had no choice but to go along with these guys and try to do something from the inside to stop them. Right? But I guess a lot of people of the very elite… I'm sure it happens to Mr. Obama and Clinton and anybody else at the high levels of US politics, senators, whatever. Someday they're given the same kind of ultimatum: Death or cooperation – so either you join us or you die. And that's how they manage to control the United States and enslave the American people, by capturing the very top elite and forcing them to go along with a combination of bribes and threats. KC: OK. When you say "they," who's they? BF: Well, this is what you'd call the Council on Foreign Relations, Bilderbergs. Now, the Trilateral Commission comes up, but that's not got any power because… The Trilateral Commission was set up by the Rockefellers because the Bilderbergs were too racist to let the Japanese in. So it was made as a forum for the Japanese to have their say. And at first some very high level Japanese joined. OK? You have like prime ministers and stuff in there. But the Japanese say: Well, hey, they didn't listen to us. I've talked to many members of the Trilateral Commission, right? So now you have, as the head of the Japanese side, is the president of Fuji-Xerox. You know, before they had Prime Minister Miyazawa, right? So it's a big drop, like the Japanese say: To hell with your Trilateral Commission, essentially, because you won't even listen to us. So anyway, what I'm saying is, it's the families that own the Federal Reserve Board and all their hired hands. They have the money. KC: So Takenaka's guy that comes to you and makes this offer to be a Freemason is sent by "Who" at the top? BF: Well, Takenaka was a disciple of Henry Kissinger's. And Henry Kissinger works for David Rockefeller. And I had accused Takenaka of selling the Japanese financial system to Rockefeller. OK? So basically if you, like, imagine a video game, right? A pyramid. And the first step in the pyramid is the boy scouts, right? And about the 4th step is the Rotary club and you keep rising up. Well, I was getting right to the top level, because they told me when they offered me to join the Freemasons, they said: Look, above the 33rd level there's 13 levels. OK? And remember the US dollar bill? The pyramid on top? The Eye represents the people who set the human race to the job of pyramid-building. So you see It's an unfinished pyramid. OK? So above the 33rd step are 13 steps. And this is the inner group of about 10,000 people who control the west. And I would say a lot of them are very decent people who really wish to do good things and did not wish to find themselves within those ranks but had no choice. I'd be willing to say that the majority of the people in that elite group are good people with good hearts who want to do good things for the planet and find themselves in this hidden King's Court . KC: OK. So you got this offer. BF: Right. KC: What did you do next? BF: Well, what happened was, the very next day I got a call from a movie director, a Japanese movie director, and he says to me: I want to talk to you about something. So I met him and he said: There's someone I want you to meet. So I went to another hotel room. Right? They seem to like hotel rooms, you know, when they want to talk about important stuff. And again I recorded this, although I'll never release this recording. The guy tells me that he represents an Asian secret society and that they have 6 million members, including 1.8 million gangsters and 100,000 professional assassins. Now, recall I did tell you I had a degree in Asian studies with a China area specialty. So I had read about this society in the history books. I knew about them. It's the Red and the Green. What happened was, the Ming Empire was like the high point of Chinese civilization. You'll find that the Ming ceramics, the Ming art, everything was at the highest level. It was really an idyllic society and they look back at it with a lot of fondness. And, there was a General guarding the northern border against the Manchus and he was very much in love with his wife. And they kidnapped his wife. They said: If you want your wife back, you're gonna have to let us through the gates. And he did. And the Ming Empire fell and the Ming army became an underground organization, and the Ming navy. OK? So the Red and the Green are the army and the navy. And the Green also is the bureaucracy. So, the 1.8 million are gangsters. The other 4.2 million are intellectuals, PhDs. They're the smartest people. And their plan was to overthrow the Manchus and restore the Ming. They were responsible for the Boxer Rebellion which was against the use of opium, among other things. And—this is very interesting—because the people selling the opium was Skull & Bones! So they've been fighting this western secret society since the 1800s at least. KC: OK. But wasn't it the British that introduced opium? BF: It was the British, too, but if you look at the Skull & Bones, you'll find they were slave traders and opium runners. That was their so-called China trade. So it was both. KC: So you're in this hotel room and, now, you understand the background between what he's asking you and saying where he… BF: Well, they're saying they'd like to offer their assistance to me, because I'd written in a book about SARS and bioweaponry and these people are trying to kill you and you've got to do something about it. Right? KC: OK. BF: At first… I mean, this was all happening in one week. Right? And this was totally, you know, out of the normal parameters type of stuff that's going on. So it took me a while to digest it. The first thing I thought was: Well, jeez, we could play 9/11 videos in Chinatown or something. But I said: Look, let me get back to you. Let me think about this. And I spent about a month thinking about it. And I had this great, what I call my "Kill Bill" moment. You know there's a scene in the movie "Kill Bill," these two women fighting with swords. It looks like it's gonna be a long, nasty fight? You're not gonna be sure who's the winner. Right? But one of the women (the bad one) has one eye missing. She has a patch. Suddenly she grabs the [other] eye and blinds her and ends the fight. KC: Yeah. Unbelievable. Very, very graphic. BF: Very graphic, but I thought: Hey, why not just target the Eye of the Pyramid? Because most westerners don't even know it exists. They're so scared at the top. I mean, they kill so many people so frequently, that they're terrified. They're very secret. It had been, until the internet came about .You know? Nobody knew about this. I certainly wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't run into it first hand. But then I found the evidence trail. Again, you follow these foundations and who controls them; you'll see that the Rockefellers control about $10 trillion worth of stuff. But anyway, I realized the Society has 6 million members and the western Secret Society, the top is only 10 thousand. So it's 6 million against 10 thousand. So suddenly I said: Well, that's it! We've got these bastards. And that's when I started writing the stuff on Rense and, you know, making … KC: OK. So you must have gone back to this group. What do you call this group now? Because they're a group of Yakuza and Chinese secret society. BF: It's the Red and the Green Society. KC: And you must have joined them, because you're not dead. BF: Yeah, well, I went to meet all their big bosses. KC: In China? BF: In Taiwan. And I joined. I became the first westerner in 500 years to join. KC: And then Rockefeller or, I don't know if you want to say "Rockefeller"-- but whoever, the head of the Freemasons-- had to leave you alone at that point? BF: Well, I mean, what the Chinese or the Asians said was: Look, we won't make the first move. But what happened was, I started writing stuff about Takenaka and Rockefeller. And I got death threats from this Ninja, you know? He was saying, you know: Ultraman, you're running out of time, your red light is beaming. You know: It's people who think they're not gonna die are the ones that end up in Yokohama Bay. Lots… I have emails; I have copies of these death threats. KC: Did you have a body guard at that point? Did you hire someone? BF [sighs]: No. Look-- if you need a body guard, it's too late. You have to operate at a higher level. I mean, if they really want to shoot me, they're gonna shoot me. You have to make 'em not want to shoot you. That's the trick. KC: OK. And now because you joined this group and because the odds… I mean, that made big news when you kind of came out about that. BF: But what happened was, I sent an email saying: Hey, look, if you kill me, then every member of the Rockefeller, Rothschild, Schiff, etc. families, will die. You know, there's 600 assassins for every one of them, if we want to. Right? If the norm is killing, they can all be killed. Right? KC: We understood that to be the Majestic - the group - what we call the Committee of the Majority. They were in essence the ones that were threatened. Is this your understanding? BF: Yeah. That was the original idea but what's happened since then is I've been trying to get a more accurate picture of what's going on. And I've finally narrowed it down to the people who control the Standard Oil monopoly and the people who control the Fed. They are the source of the problem. The oil monopoly… The Americans think that's the key to their geopolitical power, is control of oil. But they've lost that control because Putin kicked them out of Russia, they don't control Iran, or maybe they do, I don't know about that. I think Ahmadinejad and Bush may be working for the same king. I'm not sure on that one. But Venezuela is also free. So they're losing their oil monopoly. And the other thing that's happened is that they no longer have, theoretically, the military ability to take on the rest of the world. OK? The United States army cannot defeat China. They're done many different exercises and every time the Americans lose. The bottom line is the Chinese people are prepared to fight and win a nuclear war. They can put their entire population underground and hit the US with 300 missiles and wipe out every city in the US. The Americans can wipe out the surface of China but they'll all be underground. And they can sink their aircraft carriers and shoot down their satellites. So it's no longer possible to militarily beat them. The only choice for the Pentagon (and they know this) is to get soft power and to do that they need Japanese money to finance a campaign to end poverty and stop environmental destruction. And that's the proposal I made. My plan, my mission is to come up with a win-win solution for everybody. The best way to prevent yourself from being killed is not to make enemies. And so I don't want to make enemies. I'm trying to make everybody happy. KC: OK. But you're basically taking what I thought were sort of age-old enemies, which is the Chinese and Japanese, and they're banding together to fight what is the Rockefellers and the people that own… BF: Well, when they create biological weapons that kill Asians… KC: They have a common enemy. BF: I mean, look, they're gonna try to kill us. What're we gonna do? KC: Right. BF: And this society, like I say, to get back to their history… The Meiji Emperor helped them overthrow the Ching and install the Sun Yat-Sen as president of the Republic of China. And so, they, together, helped liberate China. And during World War II, this society in Japan and other Asian countries all worked in concert. So it goes all across Asia. And Chairman Mao was financed by the Soviets, who were a Rothschild subsidiary. And so the Green and the Red gang last appeared in the history books in 1949, fighting the communists in Shanghai. And then they disappeared. They went underground again. But in 1967 they kicked out the Illuminati from China. That's why they had a big Soviet-China split, why the Soviet Union and China nearly went to nuclear war. And the Chinese have secretly prepared. They've built these huge underground cities to prepare for nuclear war. They had their nuclear weapons. And that's when they kicked them out. And China became independent again from these western, you know, central banking families. KC: OK. So where does HAARP fit in? Tell us about that. BF: OK. When I published some essays on the internet about Rockefeller and the Illuminati, the secret history of the Illuminati, I had a call from this Ninja guy. He says: Oh boy, you've now done it. Now there's gonna be an earthquake in Niigata. The Americans are gonna use their earthquake machine. And boom, next day, two identical 6.8 earthquakes under Japan's biggest nuclear reactor happened. KC: Right. BF: And this is what Takenaka told me. He said: The reason I had to hand over the financial system was because they threatened us with their earthquake machine. Imagine that! An ally that's been financing your army, you hit their nuclear reactor with an earthquake machine??? I mean, what sort of way is that to treat a friend? KC: So, OK. Let's get down to it. If that's what they have, then how are these secret societies claiming to fight a machine like that? Because you're talking about scalar weaponry, I'm sure you know that. BF: Well, you cannot stop an assassination with an earthquake machine. You know? Western people don't know about their leaders, their true leaders. So all you gotta do is assassinate them all. You cannot prevent that with an earthquake machine. That's the point of targeting the Eye. But more to the point is, you make them a more generous offer. So I'm saying to the people in the Pentagon that you have the job of saving the planet and you'll get even more money than now. Think about it. They spent $600 billion, you know, to steal oil from Iraqis and pipeline rights from Afghanis. For $600 billion, they could have a man on Mars. They could have a base on Mars by now. So we'll give them even more money than they're getting from these idiots who control the oil. KC: But if they print money, why do they need money? BF: Well, you know, here's the trick, OK? And this is why it's falling apart this year. Since World War II they've basically said to countries: OK, here's the oil you're allowed to have and here's your dollars. And the backing of the dollar was control over oil, and control over this huge military machine - the threat of violence. And then, you know, there's $53 trillion in circulation. And again, the US government owes $66 trillion to its own people. So the United States needs to borrow something like a trillion dollars a year now just to keep going. And they've been doing it for 40 years, so they're basically bankrupt. If you earn $13,000 a year and you have $120,000 in debt and they say it's time to pay back, well, what can you do? Can they threaten violence? No. Because if it really came to it, the Americans would lose. So they can no longer use their threat of violence and they've lost their oil monopoly. So that's it. Right? So, if you're in the Pentagon, you're thinking: Well, jeez, the only thing we can do now to save the day is to get all the non-Asian peoples on our side. And the way you do that is, you be nice. You fight poverty and you save the environment, you know, help them save the planet. So, you know, I'm offering them a way out. What happens is, you replace the dollar with a new currency. And it may be necessary to have some kind of global currency. But not as these guys have been planning - control in secret by a secret elite. It has to be controlled by the people. Remember that. The key to democracy is control over money by the people, not by a secret elite. It's the money that counts. If you lose control of your money, hand it over to people you can't see, you're a slave. That's what you have to remember. Never, ever again, let some secret power elite take control of your money away from you. That's the key. People work for money. http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/benjamin_fulford_interview_transcript_2_en.html (continued from Part 1) (continued in Part 3) The Ultimatum : Benjamin Fulford - Part 3 Tokyo, Japan, February 2008 (continued from Part 1 and Part 2) Start of interview Bill Ryan: This message to the powers that be was presumably heard when it was published by Henry Makow and by your interviews on Rense last July. [Fulford nods yes] And those same people will be watching this - there's no doubt about it whatsoever. And what indicators have you had that that message has been heard, action is being taken, changes are being made? What are the pros and cons of this in terms of measuring progress? Because a lot of people want to know the answer to that question. Benjamin Fulford: Well, look in the papers. You see, for example, the reports in the New York Times from Davos. You see George Soros saying that the dollar will cease to be the key currency. You have stories in the New York Times, again, saying that the Pentagon has changed their basic doctrine to country- building. Right? You have Prime Minister Brown running around saying we gotta put India and Brazil and some African countries into the UN Security Council as permanent members. You know. And then you see the US market like in a kind of short-circuit. Right? Because something's happening, you know? Kerry Cassidy: Right, but you also see Japan, I mean, watching the news daily here-- and basically Japan is sort of on shaky ground as a result of the US dollar getting on shaky ground. How does that link up? BF: OK. Now, this is a false story that's been around, that without the American market everybody's in trouble. But, you know, it's like a customer who comes to your bar and eats and drinks and never pays, you know? Well, you're not gonna listen. You just have to sell to somebody else who actually pays for it. You know? KC: So you're saying Japan is not really going on shaky ground. Well, what is the purpose of this disinformation? BF: Well, here's the tricky part. The Japanese want to maintain their alliance with the United States. OK? So, the idea is to remove these gangsters from the top of the American political structure who control everybody with money; reassure the Americans; maintain the alliance; and then reorient the Pentagon to ending poverty and exploring the universe. Give them more money than before. And the American economy-- you write off their debt and you give them new financing so they go and rebuild their bridges, rebuild their infrastructure, you know, build new schools-- all the stuff that's been neglected because they've been spending so much money on trying to maintain the ability to physically, you know, intimidate everyone else. KC: Now you mentioned, I believe, on the update to Rense that you were being offered the job of Finance Minister if the Democrats, I believe you said, came into power here in Japan. BF: No, I did not say I've been offered the job. I was offered the job before on the condition that I participate in genocide. What's happening now is that the opinion polls show that the Democratic party is gonna win. And if they do, there will be some big changes in Japan. They'll maintain the alliance, but not as a colonial state, but as an equal partner. And, you know, I know their leaders. I've met them. I've been working with them for a long time. And if they give me the job, then and only then would I be able to do this. OK? So, it's up to them. But they know my plan, which is to use the Pentagon to end poverty. And it's a good plan and it would strengthen the US alliance and it would be the only way to counter-balance the Chinese. I mean, what are the Chinese doing with their money? They're going to Africa and they're building roads and hospitals and schools. They're doing it in South America and they're doing it in Bangladesh. They're doing it all over the world. Bill: And they're creating markets for themselves. BF: They're creating markets, they're making people rich, and they're making friends. And they're not trying to say: You must be like us. You know? There are many different ways to run an economy. You cannot just force everybody to follow YOUR rules. For example, if you have a "Big Man" in Africa and all the money goes to him and he decides how it's distributed, well, that's their system. You give it to the big man but you just make sure that he doesn't send it all to Switzerland, that it actually goes to his people. In the same way, for example, the Japanese have this system called dango. Some people call it bid-rigging, right? But it works both ways. It's a system where the construction companies get together and decide who's gonna get the job and the bureaucrats set the price. Now, if it's abused, it can force the price up too much. But when things go down, it means they can share the pain too. So it's not necessarily an evil system. It's how it's managed. The corollary is that there are many ways to run finance. It's a question of obligations. I mean, potlatch was a system of finance. You know about potlatch? KC: No. BF: The Indians on the west coast of Canada would have a party and at the party the guy would give away everything he owned during the party. And then, you know, he would start going to other parties and start building up stuff. And the guy who gave away the most had the highest status. Right? So it was a way of maintaining financial equality. KC: Spreading the wealth. BF: And the people who spread the most were the most respected. It was a good system but it was ruined when foreign traders came in and started parasiting off of it and the Canadian government banned it. But the point is that all these societies have had financial systems for millennia, you know. It's a way of distributing obligations among people. That's what it is. Why do civilizations have to clash? I mean, why can't they be friends? [laughs] You know? That's the point. The Chinese don't want to have some ultimate war and they don't want to conquer you. They just want to be your friend. That's it. It's that simple. Make friends. Make love, not war. [laughs again] I mean, that's what it's all about. KC: OK. This all sounds incredibly wise and very level-headed. Bill, let's have your question, because I thought it was a good one. Bill: Presumably, six months after you first delivered this message as a sort of representative, as a messenger, to the powers that be in the western world on behalf of the Asian secret societies, they, with their ears to all kinds of intelligence in their own networks, must themselves have given you some feedback about whether they felt that this message had been effectively delivered or not. What have you heard from them since then? BF: I'll be honest with you. I'm going next week to talk to them. And so, it would be better to ask me later. But the only thing that they disapproved of was when I made those threats to kill people. They say: You know, that's very rude and such things are best left unsaid. But what they've told me is that, you know, the old "Do what I say"-- as long as I stick within that original promise, which is the war against poverty, and to save the environment from destruction, and to put an end to war. Those are the goals: Permanent global peace, no more poverty, no more environmental destruction. That's the bottom line, and if I stick to that, they'll support me. KC: When you met with Rockefeller and you interviewed him, and we watched the interview-- I mean, it felt to me as though he basically sort of danced and side-stepped and never really directly dealt with anything that you asked him. Now, I don't know what your take was on that interview. BF: Well, look. I knew, you see, first of all, that if I had done a hostile interview I would have got nowhere. And so I stuck to the way corporate journalists are trained to talk to people like this, you know, within his parameters. KC: Right. BF: But the point there was just to show people that I coulda had him killed if I wanted to, that I knew where he was. I could have just called up the guys and say, you know: Bring him to a warehouse somewhere. The point is that all those people in the western elite now know that if they travel anywhere in Asia—or in fact, anywhere in the World—if I want to, I can get to them. But that's not what I'm about. I'm not a gangster. I'm not a murderer. I'm not a criminal. So I don't want to have to do that. I really don't. KC: But do you think that Rockefeller… I mean, did he give you any indication, even after the interview when the cameras were off, that things were changing or that things were gonna change? BF: Well, I mean, it's really not in his hands anymore. KC: OK. BF: Because, like I say, the dollar can be destroyed. And oil is an obsolete energy technology. You can burn water. You separate out the hydrogen and burn it. And this whole nonsense about how you have to put in more energy than you get out is just not true. There are many ways to get at least four or five times more energy out of it than you put in. A senior Japanese politician told me they had the technology for more than 30 years. There is a Nikola Tesla technology that's 100 years old. In other words, they've been holding back human technological progress in order to maintain control over their oil monopoly and, you know, take the peoples' money. OK? KC: Right. BF: But now that's come to an end. Oil does not have to be used any more. And the Chinese are now developing these new technologies. It's just started, but you'll see it. KC: OK. Now we happen to be party to some very great information that appears to be very solid, which says the Americans have had this free energy for 40 years. All right? That they ARE terra-forming Mars, that they DO have bases on the Moon, that China (they're in another Moon race as we speak right now), but supposedly China is basically trying to follow them, in their footsteps. But, in other words, the stakes are much higher than oil. Oil's the cover story at this point. BF: Well, if that is true, then it's really a question of trust. It's really a question of realizing that it's all one planet and we're all one people. And, you know, maybe they're doing that, but I still see ecosystems being destroyed on this planet. And I see a very, very incompetently-managed Planet Earth. There are so many things they could do: Why don't they terra-form EARTH? For example, they could put huge pumps in the dead parts of the tropical oceans and pump the nutrients up to the surface, and you'd increase the amount of fish by 10 times, for example. If you end poverty, then people aren't going to have to, you know, burn down forests. You'll end environmental destruction, and you'll have so many more intelligent humans helping the planet. In other words, they should fix the problems on Planet Earth. It's easy to do. It's just a question of cooperating with all the other peoples. Now, I would suggest… My idea for a new kind of replacement for the UN Security Council is to have the Earth divided into 7 regions—North and South America, Europe, China, Japan and Southeast Asia, the Muslim countries, India, and Africa. Seven zones would each have one vote on the Security Council. And a veto would only cover their particular zone, so the Chinese can only veto decisions about China. And that would lead to much more effective decision-making. And that would make it possible to deal with things like over-fishing, poverty, environmental destruction, all these problems. It's a question of sharing the planet, and the rulership of the planet, with the people of the planet. So, if they really are terra-forming Mars and they really do have this technology, then why are we still paying for gasoline at the gas station? You know, that's nonsense. That's very, very criminally wasteful of human resources and human potential. KC: So, with all due respect, I would suggest that what you need to also do is approach this whole "band of secrecy" that has covered the globe, majorly at the Americans' request or demand, that covers things like free energy, like a secret space program, like, you know, the fact that there may be other races from other planets visiting our globe. And this is something that you don't deal with. BF: I don't deal with it on purpose. Because, if there are other races, then they're not appearing on our TV sets and they're not getting involved in our politics in a way we can see, so this is sort of… They're leaving us on our own. So therefore I think we have to come up with a human solution to the planet's problems. And if, then, we get contact with other beings, then great. I think they're waiting for us to come up with a coherent and peaceful way of running the planet before they're willing to welcome us into, you know, a galactic society. Because they don't want to have a warlike society controlled by a criminal clan heading out into the universe with huge weapons and stuff. Right? So if I were them, I'd quarantine us until we came up with a peaceful model for running our own planet. KC: OK. So, I'd hire you in a second. I'd let you be Finance Minister because you have such a great in-depth grasp of what is going on economically on the planet and you also have a great vision for the future. And both those things are really politically amazing, something you never come across, especially in US politics, not to mention most politics in other countries. So, do you really think that you're going to be successful? I mean, do you have a group that's supporting you? I understand that you have the secret society. But beyond that, have you set up, I don't know--a network--prior to this? BF: Yes. I mean, there's a lot of Japanese politicians who support me. A lot of intellectuals support me. The books I write are read by the most intelligent people in Japan. They're not, you know, reading for entertainment. So it's amazing, given the subject matter, how many people do read them. But, you know, they say the pen is mightier than the sword. And I think I've convinced a "critical mass." And the last obstacle was this fear, but now the gangsters have also decided that they like what I'm saying. And of course I've told them I'll make sure they prosper more under the new regime than the old, because this is about win-win. Right? KC: What about the American government? Has any politician from America tried to contact you? BF: I've been contacted by intelligence people. You know, like the CIA, Pentagon, and Freemason people. KC: OK. And have they continued to threaten you or are they trying to work with you? BF: They're trying to work with me. I don't think they see me as a threat anymore. I think they understand that's not what I'm about. I'm here for a win-win solution, you know? KC: Are you at liberty to tell us anybody in particular that you've dealt with? BF: Ah… Not at this point. But it's clear that the problems have been the oil monopoly and the military people, not the Pentagon, but the military billionaires, the contractors and such. In other words, we need to get rid of the oil monopoly. KC: The Carlyle group? BF: Yeah. It really boils down to that. Just quit keeping us addicted to oil. Bill: I understand what you were saying about the ethics of the secret societies. In other words, they may well intend to take someone out if they misbehave, but it's very impolite to be so brazen about voicing it publicly. These things are presumably meant to be implied and understood without having to be so brazen and uncouth as to actually threaten somebody. This is my take on what you're saying there. But just to fast-forward to a worst-case scenario, let's say that there are some factions in the Pentagon or behind the scenes that have an interest for whatever reason, sane or insane, in starting some kind of attack on Iran that could lead to nuclear escalation. Would you believe that in that situation, then the societies would actually start to take people out because this would be unacceptable? BF: Yeah. Well, I mean, that would be, certainly, a line to be crossed that shouldn't be crossed. You know, if they're gonna try to kill billions of people, then we're gonna have to kill 10,000 people in order to prevent that, if necessary. And the arrangements have been made. It's just a matter of me sending an email or making a phone call or a matter of someone coming and killing me. KC: And what about war? I mean, are you approaching, like, are we gonna have war with Iran? Are you working with these groups? Are you trying to change that paradigm? BF: The idea is to replace war with a different kind of economic competition. So it would be like a peaceful war, sort of like a global Olympics. For example, the Americans would compete with the Chinese to develop Africa. Or, in other words, come up with some sort of way where we'd periodically give everybody on the planet a goal that they all work towards. Because one thing war has done in the past, it has motivated people to go to extraordinary efforts. Unfortunately it's been efforts to kill and conquer. But the idea of mobilizing people can be used for peaceful purposes. A good example was Hitler starting up the Autobahn. He said: OK, you're all unemployed, you've got no work. All right, we're gonna build the best highway system the world has ever seen. And they did. So never mind all the genocide and stuff-- that happened later-- but just the idea that you mobilize everybody. So, for example, I'm asking for a 3-year campaign, at the end of which, all environmental destruction will be stopped; every kid on the planet [voices becomes choked with emotion] will have a full mind [wipes away tears] and a full stomach; and human potential will be released. [wipes away tears] And the economic benefits would be just totally mind-boggling. At the same time, instead of having something like DARPA, you know, high- tech research for the purposes of killing, make it high-tech research for the purposes of promoting life. For example, immortality is around the corner. If you could live another 30, 40 years, you could probably live to be a thousand or more if you wanted. So they should put as much resources as possible into that. And we can make ourselves more intelligent with drugs, with gene therapies, to raise our intelligence. We could have a kind of a paradigm shift, I mean a fractal shift, really-- like the Cambrian explosion-- within a matter of maybe dozens or hundreds of years at most. If we want. If everybody raises their IQ to 200, 300, and they've got infinite free power and immortality, who knows what we're gonna think up? It'll set off a kind of, you know, exponential explosion of progress, which you can only begin to wonder and imagine what it's gonna be like. But it's real. It's not some kind of science fiction. It's all there in the current technology. You can read it and see it. KC: We have it within our grasp. BF: Yes. And so we should really just go for it! I mean, try to save every soul you can. If we can make everybody immortal, we should. And then if there's not enough room for them, we'll have to go out into space. KC: But in essence, it seems like this threat that you're talking about the Yakuza and the secret societies have made to, in essence, the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds, right?-- the ones that are at the very top-- that if things don't change, they are basically going to be motivated to, sort of, eliminate them? BF: Well, it's a slave revolt they're dealing with, basically. And it's one they can't stop this time. I mean, Kennedy basically lead an unsuccessful slave revolt. KC: Right. BF: In other words, these people are being like dogs in the manger; they're trying to keep all the good stuff for themselves. And I think that we can learn about the future by looking at our evolutionary past. So when the billions and trillions of cells that make up our bodies agreed to become part of one body, there was some serious bargaining. So, you know, some cells got to be brain cells and some cells had to be asshole cells, right? But to compensate, for example, the assholes get lots of pleasure and they don't have to work very hard and they're treated with respect. You know, people even lick them! And so the point is, the some way, somebody's gotta collect garbage and clean toilets. And you've gotta give them shorter working hours, better pay, and compensation for that work. In other words, by creating a really good balance for all people, you'll maximize human progress. That's the bottom line. It's common sense. You don't suppress people. You lift them up and release their potential. KC: Have you been contacted by MJ-12 or what we know [as] the Committee of the Majority, that you know of? BF: The contacts I get are, like, phone calls from different people. KC: Do you know who Dan Burisch is? BF: No. KC: OK. Well he is part of that group, or has been in the past, and he actually sends his regards. BF: OK. KC: They're quite aware of you. And what I was just wondering is if you have been consciously, you know, dealing with them on any level. In other words, I know you're getting emails from members of intel. But this is the group that basically comprises what we know of as the "secret government" of the United States and possibly the world. OK? BF: Well, I mean, all the contacts I've had have been indirect. I don't think they took me seriously until they realized I could get Mr. Rockefeller or anybody else if I wanted to. But the other thing is that I've been going through… You know, when I was at Forbes, the job I was doing was so cushy and lax that I only needed to work about one day a week and use 20% of my potential. Now I've been in way over my head for a very long time. I've been forced to expand my potential, you know, to just kind of deal with what I've taken on. And so, you know, my understanding of the situation has evolved and the plans have evolved, but the idea is to bring this from the theoretical to the real. And the goal is to have a big change in August '08. Just make that a kind of a date. Just have a huge party. KC: The date of the Olympics. BF: Yeah. We'll just have a huge party worldwide. And then promise no more war, and then just agree that we'll all work to save the planet. All you have to do is focus on what you agree upon. And you'll find that people agree upon far more than they disagree about. I remember when I first came to Japan. I was working in the English Conversation Coffee Lounge and this lady is saying: How are the Japanese different from westerners? I'm saying: Well, they're different this way and they're different that way. And then she says: Well, how are they the same? And it's like I got hit by a bolt of lightning [makes zapping sound]. My god, they're 99.99% the same! People everywhere-- if you forget about the semantics and the "cultural froth"-- they want the same things. They agree, fundamentally. Nobody likes poverty. Nobody likes environmental destruction. Nobody likes war. So we agree on that. Then everything else can be discussed over a cup of tea! No need to fight about it. KC: OK. I know we've kept you for a long time, but just one or two of our last questions. BF: Hm mm KC: You're dealing with secret societies, OK. But do these secret societies let you in on their "secrets" yet? BF: Well, some, yes. Well, it depends "what." But, do I really need to know? I think one of the secrets I've found out is the Yakuza all work for the emperor, for example. They're like the FBI and the CIA in this country. KC: OK. So how is the emperor taking your message? BF: Well, I think he's the guy who has been nudging me along on this path, you know, secretly. KC: OK. BF: I wrote an essay a long time ago, saying if I was General McArthur, what would I do? And I said, well, I'd, you know, invite all the best experts in the world and try to make Japan the best country in every single area possible. With the Meiji reforms they could only afford second or third-level people but now they could hire every Nobel Prize winner who ever lived who's still alive. I mean, they've got $5 trillion dollars. And just make Japan an example for the world. KC: Um hm BF: And that still could be done, you know? I think, for example, cities should be covered with green. Trees and animals and plants should be able to freely roam cities. There's gotta be a way to make nature and cities compatible, for example. That's something they could do. There's a lot of things. There's so much potential if people are once again allowed to dream about the future and then try to make those dreams come true. It's really a question, right now, of phenomenal waste. And the Japanese know more than anybody—they have one resource. That's human brains. Most of the human brains on this planet are being wasted. It's the most valuable resource we have and it's being wasted and deliberately dumbed down and destroyed. KC: What about the undersea cables that were recently cut, that basically took the internet…? You heard of that? BF: Yeah yeah yeah. KC: OK. Well, many are saying that it's too convenient that undersea cables would be cut in two different areas exactly simultaneously, taking out communications. BF: I got a phone call from the number-three man in the Inagawa crime gang saying that they were going to hit Kawasaki with HAARP sometime between February 12th and 15th. And I think this is all kind of immature posturing and hollow threats that are really, kind of, not dignified. And, you know, there's gonna be no losers, right? So there should be no reason to try to do this. I mean, these people have been having this plan, right? To eliminate, you know, 4 billion people, and then give the rest of the planet a high level standard of living in harmony with nature. But the reason they've had this plan is because they couldn't understand other cultures. And they couldn't impose their own culture on these other cultures. And that's the essence of the problem. If they realized that they have so much to learn, and there's so much human potential that's gonna be wasted, they'll realize it was a very stupid plan in the first place. And the idea of wanting to enslave humanity is not the way it's supposed to be. They're supposed to lead humanity. And that means behaving the way that people want them to lead. And that should be easy for them. So, you know, for example, if they want to have all of Israel, then the easiest thing would be to pay a million dollars or so to each Palestinian, you know, and then they can build their temple. And, you know, if they finance research on immortality and super powers I think that would fulfill their biblical prophesies, these people who are obsessed with creating a sort of Armageddon, right? I would still invite them. I'd say: Look, you know, you've been preparing for this for so long and you've spent so much money on this. Give us a show, you know? Make it a virtual Armageddon. You know, put up screens. Turn on your hologram machines, whatever it is, you know. And you can make it come true without killing billions of people. You're not going to be able to kill billions of people anyway. Because even in the Pentagon, I think they understand now that these people have been obsessed with, you know, an ancient book and they've lost touch with reality. You know? KC [laughs]: That's a great way to put it—very simple, very direct, and very true. BF: And so look at the reality. You've got a situation where wonderful things are gonna happen, more wonderful than they can imagine. KC: OK. One last question: Magic, OK? You obviously have been trained to some degree in the occult and what goes on behind the scenes. So you've got, you know, "entities" that represent good and evil, for lack of a better way of associating it, and you know that you're dealing with these forces when you're approaching the world in this way. Have you been dealing with this, and do you feel that you sort of have the good on your side at this point? BF: You know, I don't usually like to talk about this stuff because people will start thinking I'm a weirdo. But if you ask my girlfriends, for example, they tell me that at night I'm not there. The only thing that's left is my body, I mean the animal functions. I leave my body every night. KC: Uh hm. We all do, in my opinion. BF: Yeah. KC: But what are you saying with that? BF: I've had some very, very unusual experiences. Like I had one experience in particular where it felt like my entire nervous system was almost overloaded with information. And it was an image of the planet as an egg about to hatch, you know, really burst out into billions and trillions of species, you know. It's like the Cambrian explosion. It really was so intense that there's no really good way of describing it. But it's not something that you could have through a vivid dream or hallucination, because it was like almost total overload, like a giant zap of energy, way beyond anything I'd normally possess. KC: Um hmm BF: There's a lot of very mysterious stuff been going on. But I try not to mix that in because I'm trying to stay at the lowest common denominator of everybody's understanding. Because, you start talking about stuff like this, all sorts of people are going to get turned off and say: Oh, he's a weirdo. He's a flake. KC: Right. BF: So, you know, I try to stick within the matrix of everybody's paradigms and frameworks in order to make sure they understand the information. KC: But you know you're working outside the matrix at this point, or you have the potential to. BF: Oh yeah, definitely. You know, actually I have a problem. I spend so much time outside the matrix, I have trouble earning a living these days, if I have to get back in and do stuff to pay my bills, you know. KC: Right. So the bottom line is that you don't have a job, actually—yet-- as Finance Minister, should that come about. So in essence here you are in this incredibly interesting position, but it doesn't pay the bills. BF: Well, yeah. I mean, I have jobs. I do pay my bills, you know, but I'm now working towards this. We're close. I'm saying the target date is August 8, [2008]. I'll go to Taiwan. I'll talk to the society. You know, lots of big things are gonna be happening, you know, but I'm just hoping that… The best thing is that everyone agree that we need a fresh start, just to clean the slate, have a big party, and then just change the way we run the planet. I mean, the post-war system has become dysfunctional and the idea that a tiny western minority can rule the planet is obsolete. It's not working. And that's what we have to get these people to understand. And it's not going to be a threat to them. It's going to be a huge benefit to them. It's going to be something they will be wishing they had done years ago, like: Why didn't we think of that? Why didn't we do this sooner? KC: OK. Do you have family members behind you? BF: Yeah. I have a lot of people behind me. My family in Canada - I don't have much contact with them, so they think probably I've gone off the deep end, you know. [Kerry laughs] But senior politicians in Japan and the heads of the Yakuzas and stuff, they know where I'm coming from. KC: Thank you. Bill: Is there a final message that you'd like give anyone who happens to be watching this video, to see what you're gonna say next? BF: It's just gonna be… Wonderful, wonderful things are going to happen. That's the idea. Just absolute magic. I mean, everybody's dreams will come true. That's the goal. (continued from Part 1 and Part 2) http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/benjamin_fulford_interview_transcript_3_en.html
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