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Rumor: 3K3y - PS3Key (ODD) XKey for PS3 Consoles is Incoming
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129w ago
- Following up on the
Blu-ray drive emulation rumor, today
has announced that 3K3y, a PS3Key (ODD) - essentially an XKey for PS3 - is incoming shortly with some preliminary details outlined below.
Still can't get too excited at requiring additional hardware to play PS3 games with the advent of PlayStation 3 Custom Firmware a few years ago though.
To quote from EurAsia (linked above): I just got word from a well known team that will make PS3 owners happy!
Watching the video and drooling!! With those few words I hope to keep you interested...
Below is a picture (via facebook.com/x360key) as well.
More info while waiting for the video: In order to retrieve the needed BD drive key, Team 3k3y (aka xk3y) will release a PS3 software tool which requires CFW 3.55, after the key is dumped the PS3 can be upgraded to latest official system update (firmware/XMB) to get PSN etc.
The team is exploring other options to dump the required key as well, more on that later.
I'm relatively sure it does support original discs as well, but will confirm it anyway. Pretty much same functionality as xkey.
For now, any PS3 model that can be downgraded to CFW 3.55 will be supported, this is only to retrieve the Blu-ray drive key, after that you can update as you want.
The 3k3y Team is researching other options to dump the required key as well, more on that later. For now you have to downgrade to (or be on) CFW 3.55 in order to get the unique BD drive key required by 3k3y, once you have the key the PS3 can be updated anyway you want, doesn't matter for 3key.
General tech info about 3k3y which is true for xkey as well:
The 3k3y hardware device is an advanced Optical Disc Drive (ODD) emulator, it does not rely on any software based hacks to operate (once the drive key is known).
The device is connected on the SATA (PATA) bus in the PS3, like this; cable from PS3 goes into 3key, cable to BD drive goes out from 3k3y, in other words 3k3y physically sits between the drive and the PS3 mainboard and offers USB 2.0 port to connect hard drive(s). Games residing on the connected hard drive(s) can be selected using a small remote display with buttons (as seen in the photo linked a few posts up reading "PS3" in white characters on the display).
For the PS3 this device appears as a legit BD drive, and replies to any ATA protocol requests/commands the same way the original drive does. The BD drive key which is unique in each PS3 makes it possible for 3k3y to decrypt/encrypt data on the fly and redirect SATA traffic originally on disc media from the hard drive connected via USB 2.0 instead. No original Blu-ray disc needs to be inserted for operation, you can use this without any disc in the drive.
Again, this makes it possible to use any official firmware (XMB) version you want after installation (and key retrieval). No need for software hacks like CFW or DEX to make this work at all. If the original game requires firmware (XMB) 4.25, then go ahead and update, just like you would if the system was completely original (virgin).
I hope this clears up any misunderstandings what 3k3y does, or what it requires.
If the CFW you use can load games on Blu-Ray from the BD drive today, then it will be able to do that from hard drive with 3k3y installed as well.
However, to my knowledge the Blu-ray Disc (BD) drive is not used with CFW, original game disc can be mounted for compatibility, but games are actually loaded from a hard drive connected to the USB port on PS3 or from the internal hard drive.
Simply put, whatever fails with the installed CFW will fail with 3key as well. That's the reason it is kind of pointless to use 3k3y with CFW, but makes a lot of sense to use OFW.
In summary:
The team for now is only releasing one picture regarding 3K3Y, but are hoping for an end of the year release.
It is full hardware interface, not a dongle, but currently you need CFW v3.55 to dump the BD drive key, after that you can update.
It will be complete ODD Blu-ray emulator, allowing even the feature to rip your original PS3 game discs to your external HDD.
Due to the nature of design, you will be required to open your PS3 to install it, but NO SOLDERING is needed.
More info will be release later, but for now any more pictures and videos are PRIVATE and been shown only to trusted long-time resellers.
In order to retrieve the needed BD drive key, Team 3k3y (aka xk3y) will release a PS3 util which requires CFW 3.55, after the key is dumped the PS3 can be upgraded to latest official system update (firmware/XMB) to get PSN etc. The team is exploring other options to dump the required key as well, more on that later.
: Below is a minor timeline update, as follows:
[21/10/12] 3k3y key dumper app! (pictured below)
Finally from
: You will need do some soldering with this ODE... If You want to get the keys from 4.31. SATA bus level For 25xx and newer models will need to be solder and to get the keys and play backups.
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#105 -
- 14w ago
Yeah, it's just a rumor for now
#104 -
- 15w ago
Thanks for all
#103 -
- 15w ago
#102 -
PS4 News
- 41w ago
Below is the 3K3y Firmware v2.10 and v2.11 Public Beta with details from
as follows:
(Mirror) /
Notes for 3K3y Firmware v2.10 Public Beta:
For now, while waiting for 3k3y isotools swap disk support, you can use the
Cobra ODE Bypass 4.55 tools
to create swap ISO file.
Burn with ImgBurn, use quality BD-R, Ritek worked fine for me. I've read some claim BD-RE will work, but not in my tests, I tried with Verbatim BD-RE (rewritable) and it failed. Also, make sure you use an original game disk which is single layer (25GB), check the Cobra Anti-ODE security bypass manual for more info.
Setting SWAPTIMEOUT over 30 seconds made the PS3 XMB freeze, that is the reason I limit it to 25 seconds. If you get freeze problem in XMB, try lowering the value, or remove the SWAPTIMEOUT setting in 3key.cfg, then it will default to 15 seconds.
The remote display will show "Load SWP disk" or "Load PS3 disk" when the time comes, you need to quickly open the cover/lid and swap to the requested disc and close the cover before SWAPTIMEOUT reaches zero, if too slow the PS3 XMB will detect the open cover switch and give error, in this case try to start over, if that also fails, power off the PS3 and restart.
If you don't own a 3k3y remote you need to pay attention when the motor stops, but this can be tricky, hopefully someone with a remote can post a video on YouTube so you get an idea how the swap is done. During game updates the BD drive can stop without actually requiring the swap disk, if so just leave the PS3 disk in there when updates are installing on the XMB screen.
When installing a PS3 game update there will be several swaps between SWP (swap) disc and PS3 (original) disc, also, after a game has an update installed on the PS3 hard drive, there will be one extra swap to insert original disc during normal gameplay.
If you manage to screw up the swapping, or if it fails by itself, turn off the PS3 super slim using power button and start over. Pay attention to drive motor sound and be careful, since it can spin with open lid theoretically due to the cover switch handling by 3k3y. If a PS3 game update was installing during a bad swap you might have to delete it in XMB, because the update file can be corrupt (signed with the wrong disk loaded).
3K3y Firmware v2.10 Public Beta Changelog:
Cobra 4.55 ISO tools supprt, COBRAISO=Y setting added to 3key.cfg
3K3y Firmware v2.11 Public Beta Changelog:
Fix for 3Dump.bin users on OFW 4.55, game updates and quit game works, FIX3DUMP=Y setting added to 3key.cfg.
#101 -
- 57w ago
thanks again
Also the 3K3y v2.08 Beta for PS3 Super Slim is announced:
After a few busy days of developing (and hacking) I'm proud to announce 3K3y v2.08 Beta.
3K3y v2.08 Beta PS3 Super Slim (4k) changelog:
OFW 4.55 swap disc support with game updates working
No wire/soldering required for cover switch handling
SWAPTRICK=Y setting added to 3key.cfg
SWAPTIMEOUT=xx (between 5 - 25 seconds) setting added to 3key.cfg
Optional LANGUAGE=P0T setting added to 3key.cfg, giving P0T-NOoDLE font on the remote display in English (Thanks Sir Garbagetruck aka Lastebil for the heads up)
This list might change before public beta and final release.
UglyClicker is working on the swap disc support in 3k3y IsoTools, so that should be ready in time for public release.
Unfortunately my attempts to solve the 'game update' and 'quit game' freeze problems for 3Dump.bin users (who have drive key) failed, so I doubt any fix for that will make it into this release.
#100 -
PS4 News
- 59w ago
3K3y Users: Stay Away from OFW 4.55, 3K3y IsoTools v1.34.9 Out!
To quote from
: After reading the news about Cobra ODE failing for some PS3 models I sacrificed a 3k3y 3KR (3KS-R) install on a PS3 Super Slim (4k), updated to OFW 4.55, and it failed to load GTA5 after that (just hangs in XMB)!
So, for now, don't update to OFW 4.55. Only 'pass-thru' mode works so far in my tests on OFW 4.55, will try some more games.
Users with older fat PS3 consoles have reported success with 3k3y on OFW 4.55, so this seem to affect newer consoles, as Team Cobra suggested.
IsoTools 1.34.9
As requested by a vast amount of users, here is the update notification for the new version of IsoTools.
The new version will automatically install when you open IsoTools. As of now, only version 9 IRD files can be uploaded, you can also download the package manually:
Fixed exception when ejecting a disc
2014-02-12: Do NOT update to firmware 4.55
As many of you already know, Sony released update 4.55, which apparently blocks the 3k3y, Cobra and E3. We are looking for a solution. In the mean time, do NOT update, and monitor the forums for progress.
2014-05-06: 3K3y: Firmware 4.55 update
We have been looking into a solution that doesnt require a boot disk, but unfortunately we have not had any success yet. We will now make an update (with swap) for 4.55 users.
#99 -
- 61w ago
Hello everyone, there is a method to change the psn id on the console with 3k3y?
I've already tried IDPs dumper but nothing, I also tried to install psidpatch from multiman but it did not work. What can I do?
#98 -
PS4 News
- 70w ago
Below are the IsoTools 1.34 - IsoTools 1.34.6 & 1.34.8 updates from
alongside 3Key Firmware 2.07, as follows:
Updated IRD version to 9, no changes, but a lot easier method to calculate the hash
Fixed auto upload IRD file
Manager ISO now contains PS1/PS2 games as well
Fixed video while mounting a game (thanks Harryoke)
Extract ISO now also extracts zero byte files
Fixed crash after extraction
Create ISO (homebrew) now always creates a correct disc, even with a small amount of files (couldn't open the disc in IsoBuster for instance)
Add support to make an empty update region (saves 256 MB of zeroes). This only works in homebrew/manager isos when no update file exists.
Add a check to fix invalid marked ISO files (encrypted while data is decrypted, and vice versa)
Added sortorder on none/date/filename while creating manager iso (in settings)
Fixed boolean arguments in isotoolscon
Fixed wrong path in IsoCreator under Mono (when running under linux)
Added JB Validator to validate a JB rip against an IRD file (same process when you create an ISO with IRD).
Fixed IsoMenuCreator
Merged IsoMenuCreator and IsoTools:
IsoTools only supports PS3 isos (interface limitation, not a code limitation)
IsoMenuCreator supports both PS3 and XBOX isos, xk3y firmware still needs support for this
1.34.4 - Bugfix release:
Fixed issue with 3K3Y Manager and > 50 games
PS1/PS2 game detection improved
27/11/13 - 3K3y firmware update 2.07:
Note: If you ever want to generate the latest gyo.db in real time (3k3y.com/ird_files/gyo) and update your 3k3y with the file it generates.
New Features:
Improved handling of PS3 Extra menu ISO
Support for PS3 4004
Improved handling of PS3 Extra menu ISO (logical partition)
Removed requirement for PS3 boot disk when loading PS3 Extra menu
Dont eject disk when console sends stop/start cmd (308R/310R)
3k3y firmware UPDATE v2.07:
1. Extract the files "rootfs", "uImage" ,, "3key.cfg" and "gyo.db" (the fpga updates are not included in this update. If you already did the latest fpga updates from 2.02 or bought your 3k3y recently you don't need to update again. If your FPGA is not up to date please download 2.02 and use the fpga from there. Why is it left out? People are not reading and doing the wrong updates so this will filter some of them out!)
2. Open 3key.cfg with Notepad and configure it if needed. If you do not wish to change the settings on your 3k3y then you do not need to edit OR update your 3k3y with this file, leave it out!
2.1 Add the files to the root folder of a Flash Drive or HDD. (Make sure to "eject" the drive properly from the PC, it may otherwise cause corrupt files)
3. Connect the Flash drive or HDD to your 3k3y remote and wait for the 3k3y to start the update.
3.1 The remote OLED will now display "UPDATING - PLEASE WAIT" for about 35 seconds. (Do not turn off your PS3 or disconnect the remote while updating. FPGA updates will take a little longer)
4. Once the update is completed, the OLED will display "UPDATE COMPLETE - RESET" Reboot your PS3 and the 3k3y should now be updated to the latest firmware.
5. That's it! Continue to enjoy using 3k3y with the new features!
NOTE! If you use the same drive as you store content on to do the update with, then its recommended (not needed) to remove the "rootfs", "uImage" & "3key.cfg" and any other files from the root of your drive after a firmware update. Since keeping them there will cause the 3k3y to check the files if they are a newer firmware version then stored on your 3k3y micro SD card, and because of that take longer time for your HDD to be recognized.
Full Changelog:
to view code]
3K3y IsoTools v1.34.6:
3k3y IsoTools (aka 3k3y Ripp3r v) installation setup for Windows. NOTE: This requires .NET 4.0.
New in this release: Fixed downloading 0 byte images/XML for static ISO menu. Fixed loading games using static menu/Manager menu. Fixed issue with 3k3y Manager and over 50 games. PS1/PS2 game detection improved.
1.34.6 - Bugfix release:
Fixed downloading images/xml (no more 0 byte files), manually remove the 0 byte files
3K3y IsoTools v1.34.8:
As requested by a vast amount of users, here is the update notification for the new version of IsoTools.
The new version will automatically install when you open IsoTools. As of now, only version 9 IRD files can be uploaded, you can also download the package manually:
Use covers if no wallpaper is available for PS3_EXTRA menu
Fixed issue in some PSX games for the ISO menus (like Tekken 3)
Added identify ISO
Added warning when decrypted ISO is NOT checked (everybody should enable that!)
Added check for missing bin files (in case the cue contains an invalid path)
Use HTTP 1.0 protocol with KeepAlive disabled to prevent certain download errors
Extract wallpaper file for static iso menu when downloading cover fails
Fixed issue with ISO crypto function
Fixed exception when open links from the log window
Do not upload IRD after failed rip
Do not cut off PSN titles (let me know if this causes any problems!)
3K3y IRD2Key v18.104.22.168
(via francesco-pompili.it/index.php/4-3k3y-ird2key-dowloader-converter.html)
3K3y IRD2Key v18.104.22.168
DOWLOADER & CONVERTER app for Windows which automatically creates ODE "key" file for unsupported games.
#97 -
PS4 News
- 70w ago
Below is Install Disc Creator for ODE by
with details, as follows:
2 months ago, harryoke showed us a PoC for installing PKGs on ps3s with odde, now i made this...
IDC is an AIO tool to create and also build, what i call an "install disc"; a disc that contains installable PKG files via PS3_EXTRA method, you can also add custom images as logo and edit the PARAM.SFO, no additional software required!
To add a PKG or an IMG just double click into the fields, to delete a PKG or an IMG just click the X next to the respective field.
If you dont choose an image for your PKG, it will use the default IDC image.
IDC v1.00 (24/11/13)
fixed the whole shiat
added param sfo title edit feature
added 3k3y iso build feature
first release (non-public)
IDC is made by ICECOLDKILLAH, with help and the idea from harryoke. IDC uses the Title ID from the Borderlands 2 DLC Disc -> BLES01813, GenPS3iso v2.1 from Team Cobra and PARAM.SFO Editor v2.3 from aldostools.
IDC requires .NET Framework 4:
#96 -
PS4 News
- 73w ago
Below is a 3Key FPGA Pack from
, 3K3y IsoTools v1.34 / v1.34.2 and 3K3y Firmware v2.05 as follows:
3Key FPGA Pack
This pack for 3K3y contains the following:
FPGA Erase tool. ONLY use this if you updated with the wrong fpga.vme file.
Normal mode & no passthru mode for 3KS and 3KSR.
Normal mode & no passthru mode for 3KF.
3K3y IsoTools v1.34
3K3y IsoTools (aka 3k3y Ripp3r v) installation setup for Windows. NOTE: This requires .NET 4.0. New in this release: Fixed homebrew ISO rebuilding. Added 3k3y Manager ISO. Fixed support for files larger than 4GB in homebrew ISOs. Updated IRD version to 8. Fixed issue with unpacking update file. Note1: All previous versions of the IsoTools had a bug which could mess homebrew ISOs (corrupt data!). Rebuild ISOs from source is recommended. Note2: For the 3k3y Manager ISO firmware release 2.05 is MANDATORY!
3k3y IsoTools v1.34.2
3k3y IsoTools (aka 3k3y Ripp3r v) installation setup for Windows. NOTE: This requires .NET 4.0. New in this release: Possible fix for mixed PS3/Blu-ray discs. Encrypt generates correct filename if input file doesn't use .dec.iso. Fixed issues with games not booting after installed an update (8001003E). Note: If you update from a version before v1.34.1, you may need to update twice! This is due to a filename change on the server.
3K3y Firmware v2.05
3K3y firmware UPDATE. New in this release: New Game Selection Menu system. Fix for Dynamic ISOMENU. New Mr Waffles WIFI code.
: Yippee... No more errors when updating non IRD iso files... just remake your iso with the updated tools and you can now update enjoy. IsoTools + 2.05 gives you the ability to load a game straight from XMB.
To activate new menu system ... in cfg file set iso menu
and dont forget to use manager iso in isotools to create your menu
Note: If you ever want to generate the latest gyo.db in real time, just click this link: 3k3y.com/ird_files/gyo
Finally, attached below are 3KR install diagrams on a PS3 2.5k, 3k, 4k from Oz Mod Chips. This ODE device supports 4k, 3k, 2k5, 2k1 and 2k consoles in one main board.
2.5k Install Diagram
3k Install Diagram
4k Install Diagram
Finally, from
comes a new 3K3y iSO Menu From XMB video:
SNES Emulator / NES on PS3 OFW via 3K3y ODDE
I was recently asked if i could port a snes emulator to OFW. Well here you have it , tested and working via 3K3Y ODDE. Zecoxao and myself are striving to bring as much homebrew to OFW that we can , but there are some technical difficulties. So please be patient as rome wasn't built in a day. No roms are included in the release as this would be classed as piracy.
Page 1 of 11
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VIEWS: 53 PAGES: 5 CATEGORY: Consumer Electronics POSTED ON: 12/5/2009
Presented by Daniel Toriola Fonts could make a lot of difference on your presentation. Sometimes, the acceptance of a business presentation is boosted by how appealing the fonts are. Click here to know more ANNOUNCEMENT: Our WebSite Builder Plans Are Now Available With Free Trial! If You Can Use MicroSoft Word, You Can Build A WebSite.. As Easy As 1-2-3! Try Us.. What Have You Got To Lose, Anyway? Click here to know more What Can You Do With a Photo Editing Application? By Alex Don You've taken the photos and installed an image editing application on your computer... no it's time to get to work. This article is aimed to get you through the basic functions of a photo editing application. There are a lot of such applications available on the market, from basic programs which include features like removing dust, scratches and red eye or adjusting brightness and color, to more sophisticated ones that let you use special effects, combine several images etc. Some companies offer you a free trial to make sure the software responds to your needs. Viewing pictures You can work on a single photo at once or bring in several photos.Working on two or more photos at once is particularly useful if you want to combine them in the end. Most applications include a browser which lets you see the pictures as thumbnails and double-click to open. You can also do this from the file menu, which opens a dialog box and lets you search for the file through your computer. Resizing the image Resizing may be needed for printing pictures or uploading them on the web. In case you want to print a photo, bare in mind to take it at a higher resolution. In case you are scanning it, make sure it is at least 150 dpi. This way you can enlarge it with your photo editing software. Images you want to upload on the internet have to be resized at a smaller size and resolution, like 72 or 96 ppi. Rotating or flipping the picture This is a very easy to use feature which allows you to rotate the image if, for example, you scanned it upside down. With a couple of mouse clicks you save all the work of rescanning the photo again. Retouching There are functions that enable you to make small corrections to the image, such as removing dust, scratches or red eye or unwanted background objects, improving color balance or making the picture brighter. Color and contrast Free Photo Editing Online Digital Photo Editing services online. Quick editing is free. Complex assignments are charged for. Page 1 Presented by Daniel Toriola Playing with color and contrast can be very entertaining. You can create interesting changes, such as turning a color photo in black and white or adding some color to a black and white photo. There are also more subtle changes you can make to improve the image. Basic tools Just getting used to your software is a good start. Don't let yourself overwhelmed by the high number of features available. Take baby steps instead, learning a little bit at a time. Hand a zoom The hand feature lets you move the image around the screen while keeping the same zoom level. Zoom allows you you to zoom in a lot, which is good for working at small details, such as making corrections with a small brush. Then you just zoom out to see the whole picture. Selection tools There are several types of selection tools you can use, allowing you to make adjustments on just a section of the picture. For example, if you have a photo you like but a portion of it is to dark, you can select that portion and increase its brightness. This way you avoid brightening the whole picture when there's no need to. You can also use selection tools to cut something out of the photo. Rubber stamp (clone) This is a very useful tool which you are likely to be using a lot. It allows you to pick color and attributes from one part of the image and paste them somewhere else. For example, if you want to take an object out, you can pick the attributes from the area next to it and gradually stamp them over it. You will need to zoom in and zoom out to see how the picture turns out like and use different brush sizes. Check if the area you are cloning is solid or gradient color. You may need to work on the transparency level of the clone tool so that the area you covered doesn't look patchy. Text tool You can use this tool to insert a text box into the picture. You can choose from the true type fonts available or insert artistic text, which in turn has a range of different fonts, but also lets you apply filters, stretch or manipulate the text the way you want. Montaging and overlaying Some photo editing applications allow you to combine several images to make a collage or overlay two or several images (similar to multiple exposure in film camera). From now on your creativity can go wild. Hope this were some useful tips that will help you getting used to your photo editing software. Good luck! Mr. D. usually writes in the field of image resizing for the company Reshade. The firm targets picture processing and offers a free to use http://reshade.com/online-image-resizer/add-image online photo Photo Restore 247 Professional & creative photo restoration services for business,companies,and individuals! Page 2 Presented by Daniel Toriola resizing software. Also it provides a http://reshade.com picture enlargement software application. Photolines: Photo Freelance Information Sell your photos to card & calendar companies, books & magazines. or do photo freelancing in your own hometown. Page 3 Presented by Daniel Toriola Finding Free Photo Editing Stories Online By Carey Paris Once you have discovered the many uses of creating photo stories such as sharing your adventures with family and friends, creating an online journal or creating a story to highlight your qualifications in order to boost your college application or resume you will want to use free photo editing software to create your stories. Finding free photo editing software online to create your stories is easy because there are many sites and programs to choose from. You will want to choose the best free photo editing software for the type of stories you want to create, however. You can even create a free online photo album. You should look for free photo editing software that allows your stories as much flexibility as possible. You should be able to resize your photos, create backgrounds from a variety of designs and colors and place the text where you would like it to go. You also want the software to allow you to edit your photos to reduce redeye and eliminate flaws in the photo. The ability to crop your photos is also helpful so that the image is focused on the subject and displayed to its fullest potential. In fact, your free photo editing software that you use for creating your photo stories should be able to do anything you can do with regular photo editing software PLUS the capability to add your text in a creative fashion. Even the best professional photographers regularly use photo editing software, so budding photo storytellers should not feel that their photos are second-rate just because they need some editing with free photo editing software to create stories that are compelling. Editing is just a way of taking a good photo and making it great so free photo editing takes your stories to the next level. You want your viewers to focus on the subject of the photo and be drawn into your story so removing imperfections and cropping unnecessary scenery can help them zero in on the important elements of your photo story. Finding the best photo editing program online for your stories will ensure that your creativity will not have limits. You want your photo story to translate from your mind onto the computer screen just the way you see it and the right editing program will help you do just that. In fact, all the editing tools and options that are available may just make the photo story you develop better than you could've imagined. Creating photo stories is a great hobby that has so many possible uses such as: creating a family history, recording a vacation, journaling your thoughts and feelings or just keeping in touch with friend and family. Free photo editing for your stories makes this fun hobby even better in these difficult economic times. With a couple of clicks of your mouse you can be on your way to creating memories that will last a lifetime with free photo editing and the stories of your adventures with your family and friends. What could be better than that? MJ Johnston writes for a variety of websites, including http://Freeonlinephotoalbum.org ( http://www.freeonlinephotoalbum.org), a site that offers advice on the quickest and easiest way to build a free online photo album. Free Video Editing Software The Ultimate Guide to Free Video Editing Software. Page 4 Presented by Daniel Toriola Related eBooks: Finding Free Photo Editing Stories Online 5 Secrets of Having Great Photos How To Edit Your Pictures For Digital Photo Printing How To Get Great Results With Digital Photo Printing Tips For Maintaining A Presentable Online Photo Album Get more Free PDF eBooks at FreePDFeBooks.com Related Products: Photo Re-Sizer Character Counter Software File Resource Meter Software Collectible Manager Pro Software GET PAID TO SHOP AND ENJOY FREE HOLIDAYS! - By Avril Harper Malamaal.com: A genuine resource center for Quality Ebooks and Softwares This PDF eBook is for free Distribution only, it cannot be SOLD Michael Webb's Relationship Collection More than 40 products valued over $1500 in one huge, discounted package. Earn over $30 per sale. High conversion. Click here to know more Powered By FreePDFeBooks.com ReBrand this PDF eBook with your Name / URL / ClickBank Affiliate ID for Free Warren Studios Custom ASP Application and Design. Page 5
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Save Me From a Crime
Hello, folks-
I'm a long time GW poster, lurker, learner. I know absolutely nothing about brugmansia, but have gardened in a basic way with a certain amount of good effect for many years. I'm particularly passionate about fragrance, so I guess it's strange that I waited so long to get to know a brug. I have exactly one. Not dozens. Not 100s.
I purchased in the spring from Select Seed. It's a 'Charles Grimaldi�.
I am longing to experience flowers. Figure I haven't lived until I do!
If anyone knows me from the Landscape Design forum, you may have stumbled across the fact -- I don't mention it too often -- that I'm blind.
I mention it here because someone may ask, "Well, what color are the leaves." Or may suggest I post a pic.
Here's the deal. I sort of figured I should giveCharlie good basic care this summer. I kept him in a container. Fertilized, watered, even through drought and water restrictions. Prayed that he might grace me with a bloom or two in his youth. No luck. But the plant has "felt" healthy. You know, sort of feeling the strength in the stem and leaf growth. It has appeared to grow well. I may have under-fertilized, but in the record heat didn't think extra fert was a good idea.
We have now just finished a record cool September.
And, for the first time, Charlie is showing stress. I have a dozen or so plants that come in for the winter. This is my first with a brug. Now it has these curling leaves. What to do? What to do?
I've read several threads about how to overwinter. I live in a raised ranch, which means no basement and also no crawl space. I'm concerned that the garage in my zone 6 won't stay at 42 degrees. But I think keeping this pot on top of my garden desk in the garage is my best bet. The desk is close to the inner wall of the house, so I think it could sleep there for the winter.
So, here are the specific questions:
1. Are the curling leaves possibly the plant's response to some chilly weather?
2. Should I just cut charlie back and bring into the garage for the winter?
Please don't let me kill him before I experience brug blooms. (Oh, I know, I know. I may have to try this all over again, right?)
Thanks for any help or encouragement you can give. I'm eager to learn.
Hello Wellspring,
Normally I do not reply to posts because someone with more experience than I will usually beat me to it, although their explanations can be a little too detailed for my liking.
But your post intrigued me, AND nobody beat me too it. haha!!
Not just the fact you are blind, but also you typing your post begins to run questions through my head. (ie Did you do it on your own? via Sound? via Brail? Did someone help you? (Although none of this really does matter)
So, back to the Brug. I am pretty new at this as well, but I have done very good with my short experience. Let me tell you what I went through and maybe it will help you with your questions.
My 1st Brug was given to me by my brother last June. It was a sad looking twig growing out of a small pot with maybe 1 or 2 leaves. In all honesty, I didn't really want it or know what it was. But, I said yes anyway.
Brought it home, took it out of pot and it was rootbound. So, I planted in a larger pot, gave it some water, and BOOM. The thing started growing at rapid speeds. Leaves, Height, deep green color. New branches. Everything.
I then started reading into it and learned it liked a lot of fertilizer (aka "Bloom Booster" or Miracle Grow) I was thinking this was why it had not flowered yet, so maybe I would feed it every other day, or twice per week. The brug reacted. Started curling leaves. Some spots. But I could tell the overall health was deteriorating.
I stopped the feeding, the plant got healther, but still no blooms. October came, leaves started to yellow & fall to the ground. I didn't get any flowers last year :-(
Now the question was what to do with it? I read and asked in here. I do not have the option of bringing it in the house, for my cats WILL eat it and they are very poisonous. Many said to cut it back and stick it in a dark corner of the basement, but I did not like the idea. My cats would likely still find their way to it. I thought about lights, but still, I would now be growing them, with leaves, in the basement where my cats would eat it.
My final decision was to surely cut it back. I spoke to my brother and he agreed to take it back for the winter and keep it in his house so it doesn't die. But before I brought it to him, I cut it back. I then cut the pruned branches into 6" lengths and just put them in a cup of water.
A week went by and I could tell roots were beginning to grow in the water, and leaves were beginning to sprout. I waited another week, and the roots & leaves were getting bigger!! I couldn't let them die, so I planted them into small 4" pots and found a small high window in my basement where my cats can't get to.
I had 3 plants. They did not grow much for most of the winter while the days were getting shorter. They got some morning sun, but that was really it. They maintained their green leaves, but no growth. Minimal water every few days.
I think the most anticipated day was December 21st. After that, I knew the days were going to begin to get longer, and the plants sure did there. Before the new year, I could already begin to see just a little bit of growth. More & more as time went on. I did lose 1 plant, not sure why. But the other 2 I had were doing well. At one point in Feb I even had to plant them up to a larger pot. They were filling in the entire window at this point.
After finally learning how aggressive the growth was, I could not wait to bring them outside. As soon as the days were regularly above 50 degrees, I planted them in a much larger pot to let them explode. I would bring out during the day, bring to the basement at night. By the time the nights would not drop below 45-50, I again planted them up into a HUGE pot and could leave them outside. At this point, they were maybe 2 feet tall?
Throughout the summer, they have just grown & grown. Mid-July they were about 6ft tall and I finally had seen my first bud. Within a week after that, I had maybe 40-50 buds on each brug and they continuously bloomed until mid-August.
Eventually, the bottom leaves started to yellow & drop and the blooms stopped coming. :-(
But now, with the cooler temps, the 2nd wave has come. Each plant curently has about 30 buds and they are just beginning to open!!
To finish a long story (lol) and to maybe finall answer your question, My view is to give them a lot of root space to make sure they grow to their fullest potential. I think the plant might not want to bud or flower with restricted root growth. Also, don't feed too much. I think once per week might be sufficient. I like to reun the plants dry between watering, but not dry enough to wilt.
And lastly, my apologies for the long story. This past sept I had already cut a few branches off and cut to 6" pieces, put in water, and planted in clear plastic cups (to see the root growth. They have already grown maybe 6" and I can see the roots are starting to fill the cups. Maybe about 15 of them getting ready for next year. I am going to give most of them to friends who stared in awe at the beauty of the brug in full bloom
Wellspring, it would help us help you if we knew your climate zone. If you are in zone 8b or above, your Brug will do much better if planted in the ground. If not, then a big pot can work. They love fertilizer, bright light and water.
To keep pets out of flower pots, put rose stems with thorns in the pots or cover the root area with chicken wire.
Thank you, Rubby and kayjones.
Yeah, I know. I'm too lazy to fill in the zone thing in my profile. Probably also need to update my email address. But Rubby's right. I'm zone 6 ... barely. You know, one of those places where they've told us we are no longer this zone but that.
Rubby- Here's the super quick answer on how I do some things. Lot's of voice synthesized technologies. When I type, the voice program on the computer peaks it back to me. I "read" pages on the internet by arrowing down through text on the page, which my JAWS program re-orients for audial coherence. In other words, when you look at a page you may have things in columns or various blocks. The JAWS program makes it read as though it is in a linear, top down format, like a standard single column page of text. TMI, right?
As for gardening, most folks who are blind can figure out a way to continue a passion. I know my garden really well, so I wander about out there doing pretty much the same things other gardeners do. I even try to picture it in my head, hence my particular interest in landscape design. When I first got into gardening, I was just as surprised as anyone else how I was able to identify plants by means other than sight.
That being said, it is because brugmansia is so poisonous that I haven't tried it before.
I am now betting that my brug is very root bound. I almost re-potted it 6 weeks ago, but didn't find a pot I liked at the stores. So Charlie's probably root bound, under fertilized, and cold.
I don't have a basement. My raised ranch has a lower level and a corner where I overwinter my palms, gardenia, colocasia esculenta, etc. I suppose I could keep the thing growing, but think dormancy would be easier.
So, I've read various suggestions in other threads. Would the following work:
1. Re-pot -- prune roots; cut top growth leaving about 20" since it's a first year.
2. Slightly larger pot, but making sure either through pot size or root trimming that there is soil around the root ball. At least 2 inches. For insulation as much as for growing room.
3. Keep in the warmest corner of garage. Up off of the garage floor on my gardening desk. I could surround it with big old towels or figure out some other ways to protect from any possible truly cold periods.
4. Even though it may be pouting from recent low fert, I'm guessing that I shouldn't fertilize now if I want it to go to sleep. New potting soil will feed it some.
5. Water lightly about once a month.
Am I on the right track?
Very Interesting.
Well yes, that all sounds good to me. But before it gets too cold, try to root some of the cuttings too, as a back-up plan in case your brug doesn't make it.
My brother will literally take cuttings before winter, put them in a jar or vase of water in a kitchen window, and let them sit there all winter. The vase will eventually fill with roots, but the plants stay alive until he is ready to plant in the spring.
This way, if your main plant does not make the winter for some reason, you have a backup plan.
One of my 6" cutting will grow to 7 or 8 feet in one growing season. I am going to try and overwinter my 2 big brugs' this winter, but if not I know I have my 15 cuttings ready to go in the spring
Hey, Rubby-
Didn't catch your response until this evening.
I was just in the garage visiting my brug. After I moved it inside the other night, and just sat it on my gardening desk, I started posting here to figure out what to do next.
Meantime, the silly thing starts blooming. Here's where not being able to see occasionally tricks me! The things that were pointing downwards, sort of soft, which I took to be curled up leaves, have turned out to be Charlie's first blooms.
And ...WOW!
Came into the garage and caught the fragrance. investigated, and this young plant has half a dozen blooms going on.
Go figure. Temps at night here are skirting freezing. Last night 38 deg. Mostly in the mid forties.
So, I simply wasn't thinking blooms.
Now I've checked them out and can easily "feel" the trumpet shape. Fragrance is very sweet, powerful. And it's blooming in my garage!
If it's warm during the day tomorrow, I think I'll put it back out in the sun.
Now what do I do? Can I wait for it to finish blooming?
Oh, I think I'm in love with this beauty!
HA. Good to hear.
There are probably many buds there but very small. When they bloom, they bloom!!!
So, now I really don't know what to do. lol. You are pretty much in the same position I am in. This is the first time I have had my plants bloom.
Just this morning, I have had 15-20 blooms per plant open, and another 15-20 buds behind them. Tonight is going to be real cold in the 20's, but them back to 70 on Monday.
I will bring in breezeway for the night, then back out tommorrow. I think at this point, the only thing to watch is temp. I will try to keep protected at anything 45 or lower.
Hi wellspring!
It's a shame we're not neighbors. I primarily grow things for fragrance and I could share plants with you. :)
The fragrant forum is my favorite though this year I've become obsessed with plumerias so now I lurk on that forum quite a bit. Laugh.
I saw your Charles Grimaldi (we call him Chuck) post and just had to comment. I've grown brugs for years and so far Chuck is my fav for scent. I'm so glad yours finally bloomed for you.
This year I tried New Orleans Lady and it just bloomed for me as well. The scent is similar to Charles Grimaldi however it's a higher, sweeter, slightly harsher note to my nose than Chuck. I also have tons of blooms on my Betty Marshall brug. She has a spicer note than Chuck but you might also enjoy her.
I think your idea of keeping Charles in the garage off the ground and wrapped should work though as Rubby suggested cuttings are always a good idea. They root readily in water. Speaking of roots I also root prune Charles every spring and if you pot up some of the fat roots they too will sprout shoots to give you new plants.
If you ever want to know about other fragrant plants like jasmines, brunfelsias, hoyas, Chinese Perfume Plants, sweet olives, etc. just ask. I'd be happy to share my knowledge. :)
I haven't been on this forum in a while, but this thread is fascinating. Congratulations, Wellspring, on your first blooms! And hi, Robert!
A very nice neighbor gave me my first brug--no idea what it was other than yellow--and it also bloomed once in the garage after it was brought in for winter. (I guess they like the cold nights to set buds.) The smell was heavenly! My friend who stopped by said it smelled like an expensive perfume. Sadly, that one died and I could never get a single cutting from it to survive more than a few weeks, even rooted. Brugs are definitely not my strong suit!
So my question is: is it too late to try to water-root some cuttings now? I have a Strawberries-and-Cream that dear Albert gave me that has gotten very tall; I'd like to force some branching on it and to make some back-ups with the cuttings. Is it a bad time of year to prune?
Jen, I live in North Texas, and this is the time of year I cut my inground brugs as near the ground as possible and mulch them. The cuttings can be kept in water someplace where they will not freeze, and be planted out in the Spring.........either in containers or inground. Guess I wrote all this to say that NOW is a GOOD time to prune and root.
I don't use growlights, just water and let the roots grow all winter.....once in soil in the Spring, the leaves will grow quickly............matter of fact, I strip the leaves from my cuttings. I never let the water get cloudy. Sometimes it does in a few weeks, and sometimes not at all.
Okay, I stripped all but the top couple of leaves and made a couple of center cuts since the stems were so tall. According the Marantha nursery description, this variety grows "like a rocket". I'll make sure they stay warm, and the water fresh, all winter. Thanks again!
Charles is a feisty fellow when happy but frail when not. Easy to lose in the ground if the tropical conditions Brugs thrive in aren't prevalent. But I grow three types in my garden despite being in freezing cold blustery Northern California. Charles does not do great indoors for me. I've noticed trying to winter indoors brings spider mites so misting is required. I won't use pesticides but you can try diluted dish soap in water with a few drops of peroxide or Cell Food for oxygenation. Cool room with dim light is fine. I also rotate cuttings out if there is a loss. Brugs planted in ground will usually produce roots that will come back yearly. I cut my plants to the ground and sell cuttings for others to start. And they all come back when it warms. The most hardy girl I have is Frosty Pink. She goes from zero to sixty in a season and hits the roofline of the house before I tame her. Betty Marshall is my other favorite. She was my first love of Brugs but I've had trouble getting a specimen going in my climate. Frosty Pink is my die hard darling. Good luck with Charles, his blooms are willfully wicked with that little curl at each corner.


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I just read about this tip for people starting out:
At bottling time, bottle a single PET soda bottle as a test piece, so, later on you can squeeze-test it to check your in-bottle fermentation -and possibly get an early warming of bottle bomb..??
Seems to make sense to my untrained brewing brain.
Anybody ever done that?
You are looking at the hole in the doughnut and not the doughnut itself.
You primates are so predictable.
Even though I keg & force carbonate, if the style requires higher carbonation, I'll put some in a PET bottle and add some sugar so it will carbonate.
Remember one unassailable statistic, as explained by the late, great George Carlin: "Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!"
"I would like to die on Mars, just not on impact." Elon Musk
You may already know this, but since this is in the beginners forum: I did a thread on bottle bombs (one of many on the site, I'm sure) and the consensus was that bottle bombs are rare and usually the result of stuck fermentation, overpriming, or (more rarely) infection. If you take hydrometer readings and use the 3/4 c priming sugar per 5 gal. batch rule, it is very unlikely your bottles will explode.
Sometimes I do that, most often not. I used to do it more often when I had less beer piled up. When I didn't have a homebrew stash, I was very eager to check the carbonation and drink a few as soon as possible. Now, I have a little bit of a stash so I can wait a couple of weeks or so. It's a good idea for people who are eager to sample their beer and want a visible way to check carbonation.
You pretty much have to TRY to get a bottle bomb.
meaning, you have to throw sound advice into the wind and bottle way to early without using a hydrometer.
Or grossly over use priming sugar.
because other than the above, an infection that can exceed your yeast's attenuation, that's the only way you'd get a bomb. and infections are generally rare unless you're not sanitizing well or you're unlucky enough to get a 'bug' in your brewery.


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Written on: 26/08/2012
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Written by Quidinish


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Prayer (Aug 1, 2011)
- || Shree Hari ||Prayer
Ram Ram
1st August, 2011, Monday
Shravan Shukla Dvitiya, Somvar, Vikram Samvat 2068O' Lord ! He Naath ! Now you will have to shower your grace on me. Whether we are good or bad, however we are, we are your children. Leaving You, where should we go ? Who should we talk to? Who will listen? This world is a huge jungle. To talk to the jungle is like crying in the forest. Besides you there is no one that will listen. Maharaj! O' Great King! Who should we tell? Who feels any compassion for us? If our qualities were good, then someone may have listened. But who will listen to a sinful one like me, one without any qualities? Who will keep me with them? He Govind! He Gopal! (O' Lord) It is only you that has kept the cows and the bulls close to you, and have given them food. We are wild like the bulls. Just wild creatures! Only You would keep us. Who else is there, who has the courage to accept us? Who has such power? How will we benefit anyone at all? Even by taking us in what will they do? They will give us bread, food, shelter, expenses but what will they gain from us? Who will take care of such a useless one? If there were some good qualities and deeds, then they may take care of us. It is only due to Your compassion, therefore the work is carrying on, otherwise who would even care?
I have heard such a thing about You, that you dislike pride and you love those that are free of pride "dainya". If you do not like pride, then you wipe it out, get rid of it. If a child is covered in mud and wants to go into the mother's lap, then it is the mother that has to clean him. Who else will do it? Will the child himself take a bath before the mother will take him into her lap? If you do not like our impurities, You alone will have to cleanse us, O' Great King! Who else will purify us?
O' Lord ! On gaining the slightest bit of merit, we become filled with pride! The abilities are very miniscule, but be think that we have become very great, we are very capable, we have become a great devotee, we have become very clever, we have become very smart, we have become very knowledgeable, we have gained mastery over renunciation, we have become so detached! Such pride is within us O' Lord!
On hearing your soft and good nature only, I had the courage to come in front of you. If I were to look towards myself, then I would have not had the courage to come in front of you at all.
O' Lord! You are our everything. Besides You who else is there that will embrace someone like us? Therefore O' Lord ! considering us as Yours, shower Your grace on us. There is a saying in Marawadi - "Gailo goongo baavalo, to bhi chaaker raavalo." However we are, we are ours. By your compassion alone, you take care of us, not due to our qualities and deeds. The Bharatji, whose glories have been sung far more than Ramji, he too says
"Joun karani samujhai prabhu mori |
Nahin nistaar kalap sat kori ||
Jan avagun prabhu maan na kaau |
Deen Bandhu ati mrudul subhaau ||
(Manas, Uttar. 1/3)
From "Sab Jagah Ishvar Roop" in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji
"SAB JAGAH ISHVAR ROOP" in hindi can be purchased from the online store at:
Date : 29th July, 2011 - Praarthnaahttp://www.satcharcha.blogspot.com/
***************************************************IF YOU HAVE BENEFITED FROM THESE MESSAGES, KINDLY FORWARD TO OTHERS. THERE IS NO GREATER SERVICE THAN SHARING THIS LIGHT OF KNOWLEDGE WITH YOUR FRIENDS AND LOVED ONES. Ram Ram
ENGLISH: www.swamiramsukhdasji.net
HINDI : www.swamiramsukhdasji.org


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German Bread Recipes
Looking for German bread recipes? Find delicious German bread recipes including kielbasa, strudels, and more German appetizers.
Recipe Spotlight
Fruit 'n' Nut Stollen
"Making this stollen has become a tradition for our family," writes Rebekah Radewahn of Wauwatosa, Wisconsin. "Our family, friends and neighbors look forward to it every Christmas. We like it because it does not contain the usual candied fruits and citron called for in other stollens."View Fruit 'n' Nut Stollen Recipe


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BURN, PURPLE ALBUM Official Video
For our friends in Germany that cannot view the video, please click here
For our friends in Germany that cannot view the video, please click here
Coming Soon!! Very Soon!!!
"Ladies & Gentlemen...Boys & Girls...Your Attention, Please...:)
One of the first, if not the first, guitarists to put his name forward after hearing that Doug Aldrich had left the band, was an exceptionally talented musician whom we had met briefly last year when his band opened for Whitesnake in Arizona.
Everyone was very impressed by him, not only for his ability to play amazing guitar, but, also, his very agreeable personality & he was definitely foremost in our minds when we began to search for Doug's replacement in Whitesnake.
We jammed together & were mutually impressed enough to ask him to join Whitesnake on the spot. This was May 30th. 2014.
Joel is currently fulfilling his remaining tour dates with Night Ranger.
We sincerely thank you all for your patience & understanding...& so, without further ado, we ask you to welcome, as we have done, our exceptionally gifted new Snake Brother...
JOEL HOEKSTRA...Guitarist Extraordinaire" ~David Coverdale
Read more about Joel HERE
David's interview Part 5
The last of the ongoing interview series with Masa ito, filmed during the "Year of the Snake" tour in Japan. David talks about his career, his amazing current lineup, and what he hopes for his future. This is a "don't miss", straight from the heart interview.
This is where Whitesnake Fans get together to talk with DC and other fans about Whitesnake and their love of the music. It is open for everybody to enjoy. Upload a profile pic, a bit of information about yourself and add links to your other social sites. It's fun!
Whitesnake's Amazing & Indispensable Production Assistant & Wardrobe Girl, Lauren Carroll, Taken By Her On Tour With The band Through Exotic Locales, Shows & Where-ever Her Magic Lens May Wander...
WSTV is our very own YouTube channel packed with interviews with DC and other band members. Many of the interviewers are fans just like YOU.
Whitesnake Message Board "the BBS"
Anyone know resale code for Birmingham??
Well, paid for my ticket so plenty of time to get ready of Dec. 16 gig in Cardiff, UK. Definitely not missing this one!!!
Thrilled to have WS back in NY! See you in Westbury, NY! And in Texas. XXX
DC - I saw your interview from That Metal Show recently - I'm getting very pumped about seeing you in Biloxi in June! However, I saw all the new dates added recently and NONE are in Atlanta!!! You have FIVE dates in Florida and none in Georgia!! Please come see us Georgia Peaches & Dawgs! We'll make it worth your while!
Thanks for the pre sale we really appreciated it!!!!
WOOHOO!!!! Got a concert just announced in my area - Central FL Aug 3rd. Cant wait! Hope I can shoot the show too. We shall see - it would be awesome :-) Tons of friends going and to some of my friends I say, if you were never a fan, just GO and you WILL be! See ya there! ~Stknthe80s Rock Pix~
Birmingham and Wembley in the bag..Let"s Get Ready To Rumble !!!!!
Got my tickets for Glasgow Yee Ha !!! D C , do we have a keyboard player yet ?? Who plays keys on the Purple Album ??? Cheers Big Man .
A Non Stop Ride from start to finish... Just what the Doctor ordered... "Shouting, Matron, prepare The Purple Room"... Oh Yeasss... Remember your safe word Boys & Girls... 'BURRRN''
Fucka diddly idoh..day... wonderful to see & hear from some of the original members of the WS. Choir... such excited in one day is almost enough to make a Gerries helmet weep!! Yeah Baby...


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Amazing Things Arts Center
160 Hollis St. (rte 126), Framingham, MA 01702
1 people saved this
Performing and visual arts center in restored historic firehouse. 350 performances (daily except Mon.) in folk, pop, jazz,comedy, theater and more. Affordable prices. Three free art galleries featuring local artists. See web site for schedule.180 seats.
Of Note:
- Amenities: Accessible Facilities
Brew Woo – Worcester's Original Craft Beer Festival
Good drinks, good eats and good company are a great combination. And during the first...
Search All Listings Here.


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The risk of avalanches make the current route up the mountain too dangerous, the Nepalese government says. Continue reading →
With the help of 15 men and five yaks, Will Cruz set a gaming record at 18,000 feet.
With no muscles in our fingers or toes, how come humans are able to climb every mountain? Or, climb some of them anyway!
Astronauts and satellites provide views of the top of the world from low-earth orbit.
Mt. Everest is a natural laboratory that continues to teach scientists lessons about how the body works and why lack of oxygen causes so many problems for climbers and heart failure patients.
Nepal's government strove Wednesday to save the Everest climbing season from an unprecedented walkout by sherpa guides following a deadly avalanche.
The Khumbu Icefall is a chaotic jumble of house-sized ice boulders set with a hair trigger that must be traversed to climb the world's highest mountain.
Rescued from a rubbish dump when he was a puppy, Rupee is thought to be the first dog to reach the iconic mountain's base camp.
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I agree whole-heartedly with your conclusion that the Democrat's energy policy is no greener than George Bush's. The lack of carbon targets and carbon taxes as policy possibilities make the whole thing an exercise in rhetoric. There is no bravery in attacking the Government policies compared to confronting vested interests.Comment originally posted on July 26, 2007 7:35 AM
Your leader on the energy policies proposed and enacted by the Democrats conflated the goal of energy independence with subsidies for ethanol. To be sure, some legislation may have been hijacked by the farm lobby, but the larger connection between energy security and climate change is hardly "bogus" when one considers the overarching goal of sustainable, green energy. Ethanol has not entirely crowded out solar and wind power in the legislative process. In fact, it is likely that Congress will extend the tax credits for these alternatives, granting much needed stability to those industries. Your analysis of pending legislative action may have been accurate, but your rejection of the rhetoric and its long-term goals was premature.
Ben Brysacz
Portland, Oregon