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Color of the year.... important or not?
I just came across an interesting thread on the cottage garden forum regarding the color of the year for 2009. A color they call 'mimosa', a bright strong yellow, referred to by one poster as 'school bus yellow'. Chosen to inspire hope and reassurance.
The question I have is whether any of you use 'fashion' as a guide to choosing what you are going to plant. If so, what publications/websites do you use or do you rely on your florists to make requests? Also, please advise what percentage of your overall planting you dedicate to the 'fashion colors' Thanks in advance. Kat
Never. I use my own personal preferences when choosing colors. I tend to lean towards the purples and oranges and have done so for all of my life since they are what I like. Fashion changes from year to year. Personal preferences do not.
Hi Kat,
I have to admit to not being a trendy type of person. For one thing, who has the time or money to change their house decor/wardrobe/garden every year, lol? Gee, not me. Besides, when I like something, I stick with it.
I didn't even know there WAS a color of the year for gardens, lol. But, that being said, I will try some new things, within reason. I sent for some zinnia seeds, for example, that are supposed to be the "new, hot thing". I don't even think I like them, lol, but you never know what the customers will like, so I'll give them a try.
Well this may sound silly, but I saw a program segment on TV yesterday that featured a large California flower grower. I swear that the owner/manager (not sure which) said that they chose their colors partly based on what car colors were popular that year.
This year might not be such a good one for that strategy.
I would think it is important to know what the trends are, whether or not you choose to follow them is a matter of personal preference, and part of your overall marketing strategy. As for the "new colors", you can get this info from trade mags, like Flora Magazine. I saw a lot of chartreuse, magenta and turquoise this past holiday season. :)
Thank you all for your responses. I am not a follower of fashion either, but I think that prairiegirl has a point. As I am going to try to market more to the local florists, it might be sensible to watch what 'Martha' and the other floral folks are saying about wedding flowers, or special occasion flowers and assigning a portion of the growing space to those colors. Mind you, I doubt that my regular customer at market cares much about such things. Dee, I know exactly what zinnia you are talking about and I ordered the same one, red with lime center... yikes!! It might be such an outrageous flower that it blows off the stand, lets hope so. Thinman, the car idea is a little scary, I think I'll stick to Martha Stewart... she's not in jail again is she? :) Kat
"Mind you, I doubt that my regular customer at market cares much about such things."
Kat, why do you doubt it? Are they more traditional, or is it something else? I am very interested in this subject. I am also wondering how much growers influence floral fashions by creating demand. Does anyone have a picture of that zinnia? I couldn't find one. It sounds fun! :)
Prairiegirl, I think that my average customer (market not florist), loves the flowers, the quality and the fact that they are local grown. I do think that they tend towards the more traditional, a bouquet of flowers for the table, lovely, fresh and sometimes fragrant but not necessarily 'in vogue' and that is what I offer. I wonder if I drove their eye towards more 'fashionable' colors, used more pictures in my booth, perhaps that would cause a shift, it would be really interesting to test. Wouldn't this be a case of fashion influencing the grower and driving demand? Being such a small grower, I couldnt influence much! For me, the main reason to do this would be so I could grow more variety of new things. I should also say that I do not get requests from the customers for bulk wedding flowers or specific colors or varieties. I dont advertise such services either, although I am considering it which is one of the reasons I asked the question initially.
The zinnia is available from Johnnys Seeds. I havent seen it anywhere else. It is a very odd combination and one that you either love or hate. I think that the photo in the catalog suffers from what my mother used to call 'printerzink', and so is not quite real, but we shall see. It is called Queen red lime, by the way.
Thanks again for the input, this subject continues to intrigue me. Kat
Kitkat, not a regular poster here, I didn't know your question was based on your growing products for the market, but thought it was more a general question about whether we allow fashion to dictate what we grow in our own gardens for our own personal cutting. Regardless, if you are doing so, then you probably know what your local customers would want and you should plant accordingly. If your customers lean towards the more conservative side, then any of the "color of the year" plants would probably be of little interest to them. If you live in a trendy more upscale area, then what is in vogue would probably sell better.
This has become a very interesting thread! Kat, yes, that is indeed the zinnia. And my reaction was pretty much the same as yours - "yikes!", lol! But hey, you never know what others like, and as you said, you can't always tell from a photo in a catalog. I've found that to be very true way too often. I'll pass on a plant for my garden because the photo does nothing for me, and then I see it "in person" in someone's garden and it's really a nice plant. So, the price of a few seeds is worth giving it a shot.
Kat, I also agree with everything you said regarding what your customers are looking for. I feel the customers at my local farmer's market are looking for the same thing. Especially in a market setting, they are (IMO) looking more for an old-fashioned, rural, homey, fresh-from-the-garden bouquet, not a highly-styled arrangement. Of course, that's not to say that a vendor at a farmer's market can't have elegant bouquets (because I feel I sell some quite elegant ones and the other vendor (with more experience - and land! - than I) has some gorgeous, elegant bouquets). However, I think the whole idea of a farmer's market appeals to a customer's "back-to-nature" chord, at least in the urban areas I live around. Growing for a florist could mean an entirely different mindset (for the customer, and therefore, for the grower).
To take that a step further with nckvilledudes' idea, I don't feel the average customer at my market would really know the trends in floral arrangements and/or flowers in any particular year. They might know cars, clothes, and home furnishings, but for some reason, I don't think they'd carry that trend-sense over to flowers. I don't know why I think that, and I could very well be dead wrong.
Or, maybe because I do have some very well-to-do customers, and they are used to high-end things (again, cars, clothes, furtniture), they love the simpler, more old-fashioned bouquets because it's different than what they are surrounded by.
Or maybe I'm just rambling, lol. Sorry, I guess I got carried away and started thinking out loud! But like I said, this has become an interesting thread!
Here is a link that might be useful: Zinnia Queen Red Lime
OK, so this is where I am at, now, with this whole idea. I like the idea of the color of the year to instill a sense of ...... whatever it may be. As such, I would grow a certain quantity of flowers that are close to said color. Create mixed, lovely, elegant or more homey bouquets that have an overall effect of that particular color. I would attempt to market these flowers as color of the year flowers, and the reasons for that color, more like a kind of gimmick, catchy, fun, different. Therefore, I would be able to assertain whether or not the customer was at all interested in this marketing scheme and so be either smarter about it next time or smarter about not doing it again, lol! Thanks Dee and nckvilledudes, ramble away, I really like the ideas. Kat
Dee~Oooh, thanks for posting the zinnia link, I would love to see these in person. I'm a sucker for that lime and maroon combo. I would try the solid lime with them, just in case you get all solid maroon. Please post pics of the real thing when they bloom!
When the different style echinaceas came out, I was sure they weren't for me. Coneflowers should be pink. *grin* With a central cone. Not "weird" colors or shapes. Then I tried White Swan. Then I saw a Coconut Lime echinacea, and another variety with orange and salmon petals. Maybe I just got used to the idea, but now I want to try them all. I have no idea if I'm in the majority or not. Hence the thought, how much of the desire for something new is influenced by the growers simply by growing them and using them (for ex. in their bouquets)?
Does the perception that your target market lean toward the traditional make you less inclined to try the "latest" trends? I would think one of the benefits of growing annuals is the ability to change up the offering, within reasonable limits. So another question might be, what those limits are (and how are they determined)? Do you keep records of how many stems you sell, or what exactly?
I think farmer's markets are exactly where one would hope to find the unusual, the rare, or gourmet! :)
You may want to rethink going with all those new Echinacea hybrids prairiegirlz. I have had less than spectacular results with them regarding hardiness and actual bloom color. Others on the Perennials Forum seem to have had the same result. The old standbys of the straight purple and white varieties have never given me an issue and I can grow them with wild abandon and they reseed for me. The newer ones seem to be hit or miss at the best from my experience and what I have seen posted.
Perhaps your farmer's markets are different. In my area, they do offer unusual and rare things but the things tend to be more heirloom and traditional and not cutting edge new items.
Kat -
I do try to pay attention, for my subscription customers and then for brides! But, two years ago, when I thought pink and chocolate "were in", most brides wanted orange!
I think I try for a good mix of all colors now, with lots of white and fillers (statice, ladies mantle, solidaster, grasses (ribbon grass), butterfly bushes, and others.
I like Florists Review for great ideas, their online site is great. Here's a quote from the issue now:
"New for summer is the return of yellow and cream, which has been in the back room for far too long! Peach is also having a great comeback!"
Paula Pryke; Paula Pryke Flowers
I think my market customers do like new and unusual things, but they do like a nice $7.50-$10 mixed bouquet.
I'm also interested in booth set-ups...how you display all your flowers! I have a very windy market and while my display is ok, I try to change it every year to make it look updated and fresh.
Here is a link that might be useful: Florists Review
nckvilledudes~Thanks, I (sadly) know of the difficulties, caused by a)their susceptibility to aster yellows, a disfiguring disease and b)their parentage, as one of the crosses is usually E. paradoxa, a native that absolutely requires well-drained soil. I still may try a few on raised beds. My point was that my initial reaction was not one of unbridled enthusiasm, it was more like "yikes"! LOL
Wendy, I was hoping you would chime in here. Thanks to the link to Florist Review, interesting stuff. How do you approach the whole florist idea? Do you ask them what they would like to see, or do you tell them what you have got and go from there or do you have a good enough relationship with them that they will call you and say "I would like to see more of x type of flower in whatever colors"? Also, how much of what you see in Florist Review do you take in to account when planning what to grow? BTW, Wendy, I think your booth looks wonderful based on the photos you posted a while back, I still want to have your folding vase stand made for my booth!
Prairiegirl, I think that the perception that the market customer tends towards the traditional makes sure that I always have enough of that type of bouquet BUT, I think that it also fires up my desire to push a few new things, that's why I would be very willing to try the whole color of the year thing to jazz things up a little. As to the method for keeping track, if I come home with any bouquets, there is need for reevaluation in the content and structure.
How does one price 'new and unusual'? Do you increase price over the traditional bouquet? What foliage, filler, main flowers, do you consider new and unusual? Are you trying anything really out of the ordinary this year?
10-4 prairiegirlz. I had several of the newer ones in raised beds and they failed miserably but not due to aster yellows. Then again we had two of the warmest and driest summers the past two years amd even though the plants were kept watered as needed, they failed to return this past year. Sort of a real bummer considering how much these newer ones cost!
I never allow anyone to dictate me what is in vogue this season. My garden is an expression of my soul - as it feels at the moment. If it needs change - I will implement other colors, structure, design. Control of my taste and preference? No, thank you.
nckvilledudes~Sounds like I may have to rethink that one then, no money to burn this year! Which ones did you try? Er, maybe I should look for you on the Perennials Forum? :)
I am really enjoying hearing all of your professional growers' opinions about how to determine what to plant. I've wondered myself how I would be able to decide.
As far as what constitutes 'new' could it be as simple as adding something to the "tried-and-true"?
I tried Jewels of Opar (Talinum paniculatum)this past summer, though not strictly for use as a cut flower. It makes a beautiful filler, but if you wait too long, the "beads" fall all over the table. I would cut the stems in flower, and also try cutting them as soon as the seed pods form. I did not experiment with that, but I will. If you're not familiar yet, the tropical basal foliage is lime green and shiny(!) with long, straight wand-like stems that branch into little bursts of the teeniest pink flowers, that look like beads from a distance! These turn into itty-bitty orange beads, it's neat. I will be getting this again! ;)
prairiegirl, I also tried Jewels last year but pretty much failed with them as they were one of those last minute, oh I should try these, kind of things and so were forgotten and neglected. I think I got maybe 5 plants out of my tray to bloom and then the season took over and I lost them. I do want to try them again though. I am trying Ridolfia this year, a yellow dill-like filler flower. I want to grow some of the following:
Polygonum 'Kiss me over the garden gate' (love the name!)
New (I think) cosmos Rose Bonbon from Select Seeds, a lovely pink super double 2-3ft.
Cosmos Cosmic Red.
Nigella papillosa, with the star pods, gorgeous!
Others I have forgotten for now, but I will report back. None, you will note, are even close to the 'color of the year'.:)
Kat~Are you trying Ridolfia because it is yellow? j/k!:)
Have you ever grown Bupleurum? I'm trying Bells of Ireland this year, not for market.
I have never seen Polygonum 'Kiss me over the garden gate' (Sad, isn't it? LOL), is it fragrant? It sounds lovely.
Know what I really like, but am afraid to grow? Remember Chinese Lanterns! Have any of you grown this, is it really a pain, etc. Because of that, I would consider them rare, and would buy them by the bunch. Pussy willows, same thing. I think they would be useful for season extension, what do you all grow for that purpose?
Do you consider themes, like 'ornamental edibles' for your arrangements? That is how I organize container groupings, sometimes. :)
How do you market yourselves to the customer, signs, etc?
Do you sell bunches, or bouquets, or both? I think what I'm looking for when I buy flowers, is a mix that works with where I am placing them, so fashion does enter into things on some level. Then if I could think of ways to combine them with other flowers, I would consider buying smaller bunches, or a few stems, and combining them. I don't see them sold like that around here, but I would like that!
prairiegirl, I selected ridolfia prior to the whole yellow thing, but hey, handy that it should just happen to be another yellow flower:) Polygonum is definately a 'country bouquet' flower. It gets very tall, can get to 10ft. It has these pretty pink drooping clusters of flowers along the stem. The nickname for it comes from the idea that it has to lean over the gate/fence because it gets so tall, where the kissing part comes in, is up to your imagination. However, with regular harvesting, it does not get that big.IMO it is not fragrant. As to Chinese Lanterns, love them, have not grown them but I have heard that they grow under the same conditions as tomatillos and gooseberries, both of which I grow, so I cant imagine that they can be that much of a pain but I may be wrong. Lots of sun and regular water, they might need a longer growing season than yours. One of the CG gurus will chime in here, I am sure.
Yes I have grown bupleurum, wonderful filler great color for any bouquet. Why are you not growing your Bells of Ireland for market? It is an easy and willing plant and will not disappoint for interest in bouquets. Self sows like crazy if you want it to. Pussy willow I have heard is also very easy to grow, again I dont know what your growing season would do to it. I am going to plant some little ones this spring.
I would love to do ornamental peppers for bouquets. There is a series called the 'Cappa Series' that have some really cool looking things, I just dont have the room this season. Do you sell container plants as well as cuts? I do, but mostly planters of mixed geraniums and other container plants. I also sell vegetable starts at the beginning of the season (my money makers before the flowers really come on) and veggies through the season with the flowers.
As to growing a little wheat, I have not a clue! I grow purple majesty millet every year and dedicate a 20ft x 4ft row to it very intensively planted but I dont know if wheat has the same kind of growth habit. Do you get multiple stems from one plant? I thought that the Panicum elegans 'frosted explosion' looked sort of interesting. Like fireworks in a vase!
Marketing myself has been a challenge. I have a large colorful banner that goes up in my booth and I post a few pictures of the garden but I am hoping to get a few brochures put together this year. Wendy has a few good pointers for stuff that she does, perhaps she will be back in here.
Well, now that we have got completely off the original subject, I will sign off. Talk to you soon. Kat
Wheat is quite easy to grow in full sun and garden soil. Direct seed a couple weeks prior to last frost. You do get multiple stems from one seed. It matures all at once - it's not a cut and come again type of plant - and it's growing season is about 100 days.
What works really well with wheat is to grow a bunch of it one season and dry it for next season's (and the next) bouquets. Drying is easy, cut when the plant is still streaked with some green (not completely ripe) bunch a handful of stems together with an elastic band and hang upside down in a dark, dry area. Then next season, use the dried stalks in bouquets all summer long. I sell a 'Saskatchewan prairie bouquet' that includes orange lilies (the Saskatchewan flower is the tiger lily), sunflowers, grass plumes, Heliopsis, and dried wheat.
I don't pay much attention to the trendy colors, I like making my own combinations and try not to overthink it - it loses something when I try too hard, LOL. Last year, tho, I saw a small container combination of soft yellow (possibly my favorite bouquet color, goes with everything) and soft pink and it was just stunning. I'd like to grow something specifically for that combo in bouquets. The Rocket snaps mix, which I grow every year, has that nice soft yellow but I need to find the right pink.
Anyway, I like the idea of 'color of the year' as a way of marketing, I think it's an excellent idea. If I were to see that on a sign in front of a flower vendor as I was walking by I might think 'whose color of the year - the vendor's? the country's?' Does it matter - you've sparked my interest and I'm walking over to your booth to investigate the color of the year and, of course, everything else you have to offer.
My season is short so containers are my season extenders. I've been selling rock garden container gardens - various hardy sedums, hens & chicks, etc, planted into shallow containers and finished off with crushed rock. Those sell quite well. Last year I started selling 1 gallon containers of hot peppers and tomatoes with fruit beginning to set and plenty of gallon pots of herbs. I also had some oriental lilies potted into 1 gallon containers that I sold just as the buds were swelled but not yet opened. The container stuff sells very well for me so I am expanding on that this year.
I grew Bupleurum last year and simply loved it. I've never grown Bells of Ireland but will try this year. I have grown Chinese Lanterns - very invasive (spreads by runners) and mine weren't very tall. I thought these Pumpkin on a Stick were kind of interesting and still may order some to try.
Here is a link that might be useful: Pumpkin on a stick
That Pumpkin on a Stick looks very promising. The invasiveness is what I was talking about with Chinese Lanterns and Pussy Willows, maybe they're too easy! LOL.
Kat~I confess I am not a market grower YET, I do so appreciate all of the feedback on this thread, it's very interesting! I've been doing a lot of research, and I do have some experience growing, in my garden and for the college I attend. I know it's HARD work, and my hat's off to all of you who do it!!
I just got back from my interview, I got a spring internship at a large family-run greenhouse and nursery! They grow plugs for other greenhouses, and sell a large variety of plants. I start in March, propagating.
We are looking now to relocate after I finish school, I want us to rent for a year before buying so we get to know the area first. Ultimately I would like to have a few acres, and grow cut flowers and stems. I do containers now, and I think it's a smart idea what you and pudge are doing. We do that in the greenhouse at school with the sedums and other succulents, they're very popular here also. I worked at an upscale nursery (Sid's) a few summers ago, many of the customer's wanted edibles, both herbs and flowers. That was fun, getting them to taste stevia was my thing, LOL.
I think Pudge made a good point about the 'color of the year' as a useful way to get the attention and interest of customers, by presenting your offerings as current, getting them to check it out, etc. Pudge, your fall bouquets sound lovely, and you know Heliopsis is yellow! :)
So, it sounds like you have a pattern(s) or recipe(s) that you then grow all of the flowers for, is that right?
Hey, have you guys been reading my seed list?! LOL!
I am trying or have tried most of the things mentioned above. Trying this year: buplerum, Pumpkin on a Stick, black-tip wheat (or is the silver tip I'm trying??), and panicum Frosted Explosion.
*Thinking* of Chinese Lanterns, but wary of the invasiveness factor. Perhaps in some big containers...?
Have tried KMOTGG - just cannot get germination on this one, for the life of me. But, still trying again this year. I saw a bouquet once simply of KMOTGG and euphorbia aureomarginata, and it was simply breathtaking. The memory of that bouquet keeps me trying!
Have also tried Bells of Ireland, but again, didn't get good germination. Trying again this year.
Dee~I have some older seed of the BOI, maybe I should get new. Anyway, did you try chilling the seeds first? (see link) Note that the name comes from "the color (and associated marketing potential)" it's not from Ireland! See, I'm staying on topic. :)
Here is a link that might be useful: Growing Bells of Ireland
Prairiegirl, I wintersow everything, so the seeds automatically get chilling, lol. I'm definitely trying them again this year. If I can still try KMOTGG after five years (yikes - must be doing *something* wrong there!!) - then one year of failure with BoI will not keep me down, lol!
Prairiegirlz, can't remember the two varieties of the newer coneflowers that I tried 3 plants each of the two varieties. After spending as much as I did with them and they not returning, I definitely decided there were other ways to throw my money away! LOL
I grew KMOGG four years ago and winter sowed it and it germinated just fine. It definitely must need the cold stratification to germinate. Just be careful where you put it as it was very self-sowing, almost to the point of being obnoxious in my garden. One other negative is that the leaves are very attractive to japanese beetles if they are a concern in your area.
Have also grown bells of ireland after having visited the country several years ago. They were sowed inside using normal conditions and they germinated without an issue. Unfortunately, they don't like our hot summers and tend to fade away in the heat like sweet peas.
I feel like a child wandering in the desert.... what the heck is KMOTGG?????? :) I like the wheat idea, I want to try some, now where to put it?? Pudge, I tried OT lilies in pots last year and failed miserably. I think they got too hot and sunscorched so this year I am doing them in the shady green house and if they fail this time, the bulbs are going in the garden! somewhere. What were you retailing the OT's in pots for? I have no point of reference on this as no one was selling them at the market, good for me!!
I found that the Bells of Ireland did best when direct seeded and left to self seed in the same area. The resulting plants seem to be really healthy and happy. Euphorbia is a fave of mine, I grow the Kilimangaro variety and this year am planting some of the perennial types. Lovely stuff, just dont get the sap in your eyes. Big OUCH.
Prairiegirl, I suppose we now have to switch to St. Patricks day colors to stay on topic!:):):) I spent a good portion of the day today thinking of all the yellow flowers that I have coming on. Not such a huge amount, I was quite surprised as I did not count yellow/orange in the mix.
Does the color yellow make you feel more hopeful? Or reassured? I admit to it making me smile, I absolutely love yellow flowers, mind you I love any color flower, LOL. I suppose in this time of unrest and instability 'they' (whomever they might be) decided that School Bus Yellow was the color to make us all feel better. Does it? Chime in y'all. Kat
When I initially read this thread, I was thinking of the 'tie a yellow ribbon round the old oak tree' song for the hope/reassurance angle - you know, "if I don't see a ribbon I'll stay on the bus, forget about us" that Tony Orlando & Dawn sang about many years ago. But, google tells me there is symbolism and psychology behind colors with yellow being the color of sunlight, joy, happiness, earth, optimism (amongst others). (Link Below) I found it interesting that it says babies cry more frequently in yellow rooms. Hmm, so much for the color of happiness, eh?
I also like yellow in the garden and in bouquets, I've already mentioned that soft yellow is a favorite of mine. I've never thought about why I like it - perhaps it does make me feel happier? I know in the dead of winter I'm always tempted to buy a big blooming pot of yellow mums. And I usually do :)
Of course, Kat, our zones are a world apart, and I had very little trouble with the orientals in pots. A few years back I also had a bunch of Trumpet lilies in pots and they also grew very well. I sold those lilies for $8 a pot which was probably not enough considering how quickly I sold out. But in the supermarkets you could get 2 stems of potted stargazers for about $12 so that's how I came up with my price.
Prairiegirl, first of all congrats on your new position - good for you! Second, no, I don't have a pattern or recipe - just too many random thoughts and plans, and every once in a while I try and capture one and do something about it, LOL. Every year - and I'm not at this game long - is a learning experience - this grows, that doesn't, bugs ate this, not enough water on that...I'll probably find the perfect frost tolerant pink and - you know, Murphy's Law - the snaps mix won't have any soft yellow this year or some other 'how can you plan for that' issue.
Here is a link that might be useful: symbolism & psychology of color
Thanks Kat, I'm pretty excited that I get to start out in propagation, looking forward to it.
Your link reminded me of a paper I had to write, on the psychology of color! I went rooting in my old files. My color was orange, and stated that orange "embodies the physical stimulation of red, as well as the mental invigoration of yellow". Maybe that's why babies cry so much in yellow rooms, they are being over-stimulated, when they just want to relax. Curiously, although we exchanged papers, I have one from other students on every other color, no yellow.
BUT my girlfriend and I were remarking recently, and I just remembered this thinman, that there are an awful lot of taxicab yellow cars now. In fact, my daughter, my BIL (who lives down the street) and my next-door neighbor all have one, so I see them around a lot. We joked that "yellow is the new red"!
I feel we dismissed this idea out of hand. I wonder if the 'color of the year' is so that the car industry can unload all of those yellow cars??
Back to the question, which came first the chicken or the egg? By growing a previously unusual color (say lime green), do growers drive demand? I say Of course! since they are influenced by fashion and what's available as much as the next guy. I don't think you have to be a slave to fashion, but I do think you should be aware of the trends.
Kat, I tried craspedia once and liked it, although it was somewhat neglected and therefore didn't do as well as it could have. I'll be trying it again. I'm hoping to pay more attention to my garden this year, and hoping that having one kid off to college will free up a bit of time for me this year!
Marketing is visual. Percentage wise probably in the high 90s. Our market bouquets have always been bright and whimsical; therefore, I doubt we'll be changing that much in the color spectrum. This is our market niche. We're always evolving as growers; and, we have a lot of competition at market which keeps us on our toes. That is actually a good thing. In the past, I posted frequently on the Cutting Garden during the "off season" which kept me focused. Writing about my passion of growing flowers for market was more helpful to me than I realized at the time.
It is the depths of winter here in the Great Lakes Region of the country. We don't see much of the sun during this period; therefore, I thought I would share some of our market bouquets to brighten our day. As you can see, we are not afraid to mix colors that might be otherwise be considered antagonistic.
Specialty Bouquet for customer
who brings vase to market every
week during the season:
At the Market
Our Banner Hangs
in the Background
Close Up of
Bucket of Bouquets
flower farmer~Awesome! My personal favorites are Goldfish Bowl of Dahlias (what is the filler in pic above it?), and your Market Bouquets in Tubs. Plus sunflowers, the #1 flower for market!! Or at least you need to grow it, after all it is yellow. I do love sunflowers and don't care if they're in style!! :)
pudge it was you who congratulated me, thanks! I hope I can do it, I'm feeling like an old lady with all this snow.
Sorry. I realized the original photos were too small after I had already posted. Here we go again with my repost.
Marketing is visual. Percentage wise probably in the high 90s. Our market bouquets have always been bright and whimsical; therefore, I doubt we'll be changing that much in the color spectrum. This is our market niche. We're always evolving as growers; and, we have a lot of competition at market which keeps us on our toes. That is actually a good thing. In the past, I posted frequently on the Cutting Garden during the "off season" which kept me focused. Writing about my passion of growing flowers for market was more helpful to me than I realized at the time.
It is the depths of winter here in the Great Lakes Region of the country. We don't see much of the sun during this period; therefore, I thought I would share some of our market bouquets to brighten our day. As you can see, we are not afraid to mix colors that might be otherwise be considered antagonistic.
Dahlias in Goldfish Bowl (Fresco)
Dahlia Bouquets at Market (Fresco)
Dahlia Bouquets Displayed in Old Boxes (Fresco)
Bright Bouquets Ready for Market
Bucket of Whimsical Dahlias for Market
Whimsical Bouquets Getting Ready for Market
At the Market Display (Fresco)
Customer Who Brings Vase to Market Each
Week to Have Specialty Arrangement Made
Now that's more like it, lol! Thanks! Beautiful bouquets!
A little off-topic from color, but two quick questions. Do you sell those bouquets in the glass vases *with* the vase? And where did you get your buckets from? Those are great. I find most buckets to be too tall for my bouquets, and if I can find something shorter, it's either not aesthetically/visually pleasing, is *too* short, not water-proof, etc. I'd love some of those little red buckets!
Ooh, I said "red". Does that keep me on topic, lol?
Hi all - I picked up the BHG Wedding Magazine this weekend, saw lots of pictures from prior issues, but they definitely focused on yellows/peaches/oranges and foliage! But, there are still all the bright, then whites, then seasonal bouquets.
I think I'm going to add dusty miller to my list this year for foliages.
Staying on the topic of yellow being the "color of the year," and hope, prosperity, etc, I've posted some bright yellow flowers. We don't sell very many totally yellow bouquets; but, maybe this will be the year for that. We can never know for certain. Can we? We have, however, sold solid yellow lily bouquets.
Such as this lovely lily which is called Golden Tycoon. Pretty. Yes?
And, we do sell many bunches of sunflowers at one of our Saturday market. We also use a lot of small sunflowers in our summer and autumn bouquets. Note the bright colored, striped floral sleeves.
Speaking of bright. Sunflowers and Crocosmia.
We've always used a lot of tansy in our bouquets. Sometimes it gets wild and crazy on us. NEVER plant this stuff in your garden. You will regret that FOREVER. Trust me on that little tidbit. We have it planted way out in the field where it can do it's own thing; and, the deer can come and make their nests. Whatever. You cannot kill this plant. EVER. Consider yourself forewarned. Oh, and since we've been discussing KMOTGG, if you look really close, you can see some in these bouquets. We have to strip the leaves because the Japanese beetles love, love, love the leaves.
And, of course, we must mention the dahlia. We love this dahlia. It is called 'Christopher,' and we use it often in our bouquets. It is used with ageratum and 'Green Mist' in this bouquet.
The leaves on this Aster Solidago have been dyed burgundy. It is a very nice look in autumn bouquets. And, of course, keeping with the bright yellow theme.
And, speaking of KMOTGG once again, it is featured in this bouquet with dahlias and lisianthus
Line up of our dahlia bouquets at market in bright, shiny vases. These vases are inexpensive. And, yes, we do sell them to customers. They aren't included with a bouquet purchase. However, many times customers are taking bouquets to someone in the hospital; or, just as a gift. One of our markets is in South Haven, a resort community. We do sell more vases at this market since many people are staying for a week or two at a cottage.
The filler in the whimsical bouquet is called Agrostemma.
I think that may have been what you were asking about prairiegirl5?
Otherwise, the foliage in these bouquets is called Seeded Willow Eucalyptus.
The rust colored tubs were purchased at a small department
store here in our small town. Originally, they had a pumpkin
face painted on them. I sprayed over the face with a similar
colored spray paint giving a sort of rustic look.
Unfortunately, they are not leak proof. So, we have to use
our small painted enamel inside the tubs. Four in a tub.
I have seen these tubs at Target in bright colors.
These are some of the bright colored buckets we use
early in the season when some of our dahlia flower
stems are too short for our other buckets.
They are sandbuckets; and, we bought them
last season at a dollar store.
Slightly off topic from yellow; however, is this not the most gorgeous lily? Yes. It is. It's called 'Rubina.'
Thanks, Trish, for the additional photos. Nice to look at on this frigid day, especially after chipping ice off the driveway for the umpteenth day in a row (I've got a long driveway, lol!)
I love, love, love those vases! I'm always keeping my eye out for something that's nice but inexpensive, (dollar stores, thrift stores, etc.) but you seem to have much better luck in this area than I do. I suppose you got those vases from a local source, and not on-line?
Ah, where is spring? Can't come too early for me!
Trish, your bouquets are lovely. Thank you for posting the photos. The small ceramic vases that you use, that Dee was asking about also, do you get them from John Henry online? They have a wonderful selection, a tad pricey for me, but great stuff. I have tried our dollar store here and it is just stuffed with junk, nothing really useful. Thanks again. Kat
Hey Trish! Glad to hear from you. We have a bunch of snow on the ground in SE Michigan but I bet you've got more. We're in the single digits this morning.
As usual, I have a question - did you tint the leaves on the Solidago yourself? Can you tell me how you do it? It is a nice look, I saw some of those at a florist one time.
Good morning all! I'm playing hooky today, I started off to school and the snow was coming down so hard, I went around the block and came home. It's still coming down, two hours later! My husband has been out there all morning trying to keep our long driveway cleared off. Brrr.
Thanks Trish for that info, and for all the great pics. I really like the striped floral sleeves. And your flag bunting looks like something I wanted to get last summer. We have a great wholesale supply house for vases, you need to buy in bulk and watch that you're not buying nesting container sizes.
So many questions; and, so much snow on our hands here in the Great Lakes Region. We have pretty much had enough of the snow and the single digit temperatures. Thank you very much. Seriously though, we have a long way to go before spring.
But, this is what I missed so much when I had "chemo-brain." I really missed the Cutting Garden.
Dee, the vases are from a floral supply house. There are so many around here. These vases are actually plastic. The vases are 8 1/2" in height, and 6" in diameter. I think we paid $1.50 for them. They don't need to be purchased in bulk. They come 24 to a case. And, keeping with the "yellow" theme, there are yellow dahlias in the bouquets!
The upside to the vases is they are lightweight. We put 11 vases in a bulb crate, and transport to market. We try to have 100 bouquets made for market. The emphasis being on "try." (And, still featuring "yellow.")
The downside is that customers pick up the vases sometimes and hand them to us. The rim around the top cracks. Another problem we had this last season is the help we had at market for reasons beyond my control would not trim the bottoms evenly on the bouquets. Thus, we had very tall bouquets toppling over and crashing to the ground. More times than I want to think about. However, yes, the vases are very pretty.
Our granddaughters came early in the season to help. They have been making bouquets since they were tots; therefore, they are able to make beautiful bouquets. They, however, had to go back home in late July :(
Dee, I do have a fetish for vases. I love all vases. And, those little glass bottle types featured on John Henry Online are calling my name. We have used little blue glass bottles for tiny bouquets. And, sell these complete with the bottle.
We also like to use European enamel buckets for blooms sold as single stem.
Wendy, speaking of yellows, peaches, oranges.....
Oh, and pinks and yellows......
Thank you for mentioning the bunting, Prairiegirl. I found it on eBay. It's tea-dyed cotton; and, I was going to tea-dye sheets to match. Evidently, as you can see, that did not happen last season.
Kirk, The Aster Solidago is dyed with a product called Absorbit Dye from Design Master. It is available in holiday red, deep blue, ice blue, teal blue, burgundy, larkspur blue, lavender, yellow, perfect pink, purple, holiday green, and orange!! Fun stuff to work with. Helpful hint: Wear rubber gloves or your hands will also be permanently dyed as well!
One final photo -- just because I loved Canterbury Bells...
Hope that answers all the questions.
Regarding my ongoing battle with cancer, I keep telling myself that lots of things in life are uncertain, but they usually work out fine. I tell myself to trust that things will always get better because they usually do!
Trish, thanks so much for another batch of beautiful photos and for the info. I'm not sure whether to be glad or mad that those vases are plastic! Glad, because that means they are more inexpensive, but mad because I can't seem to find anything like that locally - or even on-line for that matter. Maybe I need to look a little more thoroughly.
I hear you on the top-heavy bouquets. We had one extremely windy day at market last year and I had several top-heavy bouquets go over. What a mess.
I too have a thing for vases. And I especially have a thing for blue glass - love those bottles! I also like to use other containers, such as pitchers or small watering cans, buckets, and other assorted pottery pieces. I find them at thrift stores often, but it's amazing how the customers want them but won't even pay the same price I paid for them at the thrift store! Okay by me - I just re-use them next week for a nice-looking display!
Your lisianthus are just beautiful!!! The purple/blue with the lighter purple/lavender dahlias are absolutely gorgeous!
Sigh. Sitting here drooling over these beautiful flowers while awaiting yet another snowstorm....
P.S. Trish, glad to hear things are going well so far for you. Best wishes to you.
Trish~I'm sorry to hear of your cancer.((hugs))
I'm a survivor, I was one of the first to survive through chemo & surgery in 1974. I have a sign in my kitchen that says "Pray Hard * Work Hard * Trust God". Maybe you can relate to that one! I feel that's about all you can do.
School was closed today because temps were so low here in the Chicago area. I want spring to get here so bad. Thanks again for all the summer flower pics!! :)
The original question was "whether any of you use 'fashion' as a guide to choosing what you are going to plant. If so, what publications/websites do you use or do you rely on your florists to make requests?' Kathy, I think you already belong to the ASCFG, and probably subscribe to Growing for Market for some of this information. The Arnosky's will be writing articles again this year -- starting with the January issue which was available online January 1. The hard copy should be arriving shortly. We are featured on a page within their article. I'm certain this topic of color will be addressed at some point; however, we'd probably like to know right now what the hot new color is going to be for the season. I've already addressed the fact that our niche is bright and whimsical; however, we wouldn't mind knowing what's hot. As far as fashion, I've kept an eye on men's ties for some indication. Seriously. Well, I guess I'm talking about wedding flowers here. And, I think whoever mentioned magenta and chartreuse might be correct. What about those models wearing the flower shoes on another post. Weren't they wearing these bright colors?
Prairiegirl5, you are just across the lake from us. Please stop sending us your weather. Thank you, however, for the message of hope. And, 1974. Wow. I am encouraged.
BTW Did someone mention that vases should not nest? Or, did I imagine that? I have some little vases from Ikea that are 4" tall, and perfect for small arrangements. Many colors. They were one dollar each. We're hoping to sell alot of them vase and all at our market in the resort community. The colors remind us of the beach. So, thinking cottage type bouquets. Ikea is a good source for inexpensive vases.
These vases are ceramic, and they nest -- as in stack.
And, those plastic vases of ours serve double duty. In late fall we use them upside down as mannequin heads for our knitted hats. I know. I am totally right-brain. Oh, and staying totally on post regarding color. One of the hats is school bus yellow!
Trish~Guilty on both counts (I brought up chartreuse/magenta and turquoise no less!) It was popular in holiday decor here in Chi-town. :)
I'm also the one that said to watch that you're not buying nesting containers, when that's not what you wanted, but not that they're a bad thing per se. It's great if you can use them! And after seeing those hats on the vase "heads" I'm sure you would think of something! ROFL
Trish, I do belong to the ASCFG and to GFM. Love both organizations and of course, it would have made sense to pose the question on the ASCFG bulletin board, just didnt occur to me :). The double duty vases are a hoot. Very clever. I want to investigate Ikea, I like that store. Thanks again for the photos. Kat


text:
ANN ARBOR, Mich. - There are times when Mitch McGary gives his coach no choice but to pause and maybe take a deep breath before speaking.
WICHITA - The Great Bend High School girls' soccer team opened their season with a 6-1 loss to Haysville on Wednesday in the first round of the Wichita South Titan Classic.
McPHERSON - Great Bend High School finished tied for second place with Winfield, just behind host McPherson and ahead of Newton, Derby, Salina South and Hays on Tuesday during the season-opening McPherson Invitational.
HUDSON - John Gilbert Nolte, 78, died March 26, 2013 at Hospice House of Reno County in Hutchinson. Services are pending with Bryant Funeral Home.
Drop in any barber shop and sports is usually a hot topic.
Great Bend Fire Department
Barton Community College will present a student recital of instrumental and vocal performances at 4 p.m. Thursday, April 4 in the Dorothy Moses Morrison Chapel, located in the Fine Arts Building, F-157.
Danielle Ricklefs from Brit Spaugh Zoo will present "Critters in Classrooms" today at noon at the Great Bend Activity Center. Ricklefs, the education coordinator at Great Bend's zoo, will bring a hedgehog and/or other animal ambassadors from the zoo that travel to area classrooms.
The Great Bend Public Works Department will open a gate across the flood control levee system at south Washington Street sometime the Friday afternoon, said City Engineer Rob Winiecke. This is meant to provide access to the Arkansas River for all-terrain and off-road vehicles. Winiecke saod users are advised to be mindful of pedestrians and to stay outside of the fenced areas (including the levees).
The devil is in the details.
Jenny Conn has been named as the new Executive Director for the Russell Area Chamber of Commerce. She will officially begin her duties on April 1.
Dear Editor,
Dear Editor,
This week's Chamber of Commerce Coffee will be hosted by Pilot Club at the Chamber Conference Room, 1125 Williams, at 9:30 a.m., Thursday. Ambassador in charge will be Nancy Sundahl with greeters AJ Chrest and Marty Steinert. Coffee, refreshments and door prizes will be available.
Dear Editor,
Dear Editor:
Dear Editor,
God Bless America, and how's everybody?
Let me put this as charitably as I possibly can:
The last time the Barton Community College softball defeated Seward County was 2009. Some 24 straight losses. Until Wednesday that is.
Finally a sweep. The Barton Community College baseball team had played six doubleheaders this season. And six times the day ended with a split.
Golden Belt Home Health & Hospice receives a $1,772 donation, which represents proceeds from the recent Chili Challenge cosponsored by The Bikers of Central Kansas and the American Legion Riders. From left to right are: Dan Slack, Rae Ann Brack; Donita Wolf, GBHH&H director; Lori Grauer; and Danny Riggs. The funds will help hospice patients.
MADISON, Wis. –The Rhonda Knudson Agency, an American Family Insurance agent and her outstanding team in Great Bend, Kansas, has been recognized for providing outstanding customer experience under the American Star Excellence in Customer Experience Certification Program.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
"Henry Cavill for Christian Grey" is the frequent shout-out of Cavill's fans on social networks. His photos and videos are either fan-edited for, or linked via comments to, "Fifty Shades of Grey" movie casting.
RELATED | Fifty Shades of Grey Movie: Henry Cavill vs Ian Somerhalder vs Matt Bomer [PHOTOS]
Henry Cavill 'Superman' as Christian Grey in Fan Memes (via Instagram)
The film adaptation of E.L. James' erotic fiction series is still in the hands of screenwriter Kelly Marcel. There's still a very long way to go beyond the script, so fans are tiding themselves over with some funny memes and Grey-ish imaginations. A particular meme in web circulation jokes Cavill's fans would need a support group in case he does not get hired to play Christian Grey.
Henry Cavill: Superman has 'Super Fans'
Cavill's fans are not taking the Fifty Shades movie opportunity lightly.
"If Henry Cavill does not play Christian Grey, I shall die despondent and heartbroken," says one meme. In reality, however, Cavill will not have it so bad if he does not get the Grey role. He is, after all, this year's Superman, "Man of Steel" himself.
Henry Cavill as Christian Grey or Gideon Cross = Great News for Fans
There's a chance that movie outfits would also get film rights for Sylvia Day's erotic "Crossfire" series. Many reviews have noted the similarities between Day's and James' heroes, Gideon Cross and Christian Grey, respectively. Both men are gorgeous under-30 billionaires, sex demigods, and newly-turned romantics.
If Crossfire is reworked for film, Cavill's fans are also making sure as early as now that he'll get some attention for the lead role. Indeed, Superman Cavill has some very busy fans across social media sites.
RELATED | Fifty Shades Movie: Matt Bomer vs Henry Cavill? Fans Post Christian Grey Photos to Instagram [PHOTOS]
The 29-year-old Cavill is taking things one at a time. Right now, he is promoting Clark Kent. But Christian Grey will have his time in his mind once there are things to think about. For now, let the fans enjoy the memes until the Fifty Shades movie producers come up with casting announcements.
VIDEO | Henry Cavill: Superman in 'Man of Steel' (June 2013)
'Fifty Shades' Couples: Matt Bomer-Alexis Bledel, Henry Cavill-Emilia Clarke [PHOTOS]
'Fifty Shades' Movie: Chace Crawford as Christian Grey? [PHOTOS]


text:
"Don't bother"
This was just bad. The entire book is in diary entry format from several perspectives, all over the place with regard to timeline, and just a bore. I love biographies and would have, perhaps, had a better experience with a hard copy but in audio I struggled to finish it. Save your credit.
"Sycamore Row"
Glad I used a credit here. It was a great performance of a great story. I couldn't stop listening.
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text:
Properties in Epsom, Surrey between £30,000 and £2,000,000
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£112,000 Sold STC 2 Bedrooms Nelson House, Epsom, Surrey
**Offered to the market: 40% Shared Ownership** A spacious and bright two double bedroom first floor apartment with pleasant elevated views of the surrounding parkland. The property is located within a cul de sac on the highly popular Livingstone Park
The Personal Agent - Epsom
£148,500 Sold STC 3 Bedrooms Jubilee House, Epsom, Surrey
45% Shared Ownership. The Personal Agent are pleased to present this incredibly rare opportunity to secure a forty five percent share of this contemporary and bright apartment. Located within the very heart of Epsom town centre and offered in very good
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£150,000 1 Bedroom Chessington Road, Epsom, Surrey
CALLING ALL CASH BUYERS!!! This one double bedroom first floor apartment is offered to the market with no ongoing chain and good decorative order. The property offers living room, kitchen, a well-proportioned bedroom, re-fitted bathroom. The property
The Personal Agent - Ewell
£150,000 Under Offer 1 Bedroom The Croft, Epsom
GROUND FLOOR APARTMENT - This spacious retirement apartment for over 60's only. Accommodation comprises large living room, desirable kitchen with integrated appliances, good sized double bedroom and modern shower room. Further benefits include a
Cairds - Epsom
£155,000 1 Bedroom Randolph Road, Epsom, Surrey
Situated in the highly sought after College area of Epsom is this bright and airy first floor studio apartment which is offered to the market with a modern kitchen and refitted bathroom. This property is within easy walking distance of Epsom Town Centre
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£156,000 Sold STC 2 Bedrooms Parkview Way, Epsom
40% SHARED OWNERSHIP!!! A superbly presented two bedroom end of terrace house located on the 'Parkview Development' surrounded by parkland and fields. Features to note are downstairs cloak room, modern quality fitted kitchen, modern fitted bathroom, two d
Nicholls Residential - Ewell
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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are back and better than ever! The Turtles you remember, Leo, Donnie, Raph and Mikey, continue to use martial arts and teamwork to fight Shredder on the streets of New York City. Your kids love the action and antics of the Ninja Turtles just as much as you used to, so take a piece of the TMNT Movie home with you for everyone to enjoy. With a wide range of items as unique as the Ninja Turtles characters themselves, you're certain to find exactly what you're looking for. Cowabunga dude!
Sizing: Kids (4-16)
Material: 100 % Cotton
Neckline Style: Crew
Sleeve Style: Short, Set in sleeve, Basic sleeve
Closure Style: Pullover
Garment Length: Below waist
Care and Cleaning: Machine wash, normal, Do not bleach, Tumble dry, normal, low heat, Do not iron
other Info.
- Item can be gift wrapped.
- Made in the USA or Imported


text:
Does sound like a normal sink trap clean-out plug?
Our 2nd floor bathroom sink was draining slowly, so my husband decided to "check it out" by removing the clean-out plug at the bottom of the trap.
Now he's getting a leak after putting the clean-out plug back.
What's bizarre (to both of us) is that this plug just seemed to be seated into the pipe, without screwing it into any threads inside the pipe.
I examined it more myself today, and it almost seems like someone previously cut around where the clean-out plug was originally threaded into the pipe. The part of the J-curve pipe where the plug was is smooth--as if they tried to get the plug off, couldn't, and took a pipe-cutter and cut around to take it off. (And it almost looks like there's a threaded part inside the removed plug.)
This is an old house (1880s) and I'm guessing this bathroom was last remodeled in the 50's or 60's. The piping under the sink looks like illustrations of an "S-trap" that I see on the web.
My husband took the plug to the plumbing store, and they said they don't recognize it as a normal, standard item.
Has anyone ever seen such a thing? Where someone would have cut around the clean-out plug to take it off--and then somehow reseal it back into place without using any threads?
Or such a plug that would go in place without any threading needed?
I took some digital pics of the plug, but still have to upload them. I thought I'd get this posted in case someone would say "of course, that's an ABC plug". :-)
Thanks in advance!
Here are the pics.
The plug that came out:
Another shot of the plug:
Sort of sideways shot of plug - the coppery part goes up into the hole in the trap pipe:
Trap hole where plug came out of:
Another shot of the hole in the trap where the plug was:
The S-trap under the sink:
These are the puzzling (to me) parts:
- The plug has been fine in its hole for the past 5 years that we've lived here.
- My husband just gave it one turn and it came out. (We're thinking now that maybe it was holding on by a little bit and broke off??)
- There are no threads on the hole in the J-pipe. It's as if the plug was designed to just stick in there.
If there's a term for this sort of plug that I can use to Google more info, that would be a great help also.
For the curious about the outcome: DH managed to get off the existing J-pipe and replace it with a brand shiny new one. :-)
It was a struggle (I think 30 minutes of tugging and knocking and trying to make sure he didn't damage the other pipes). No plug on the new one, but no leaks, yay!
First off, that is not a J-bend. A J-bend is a straight length of pipe with a 90deg bend on the end. The pipe is question here has a 180deg bend and it is properly called a "Return Bend".
When that return bend was initially made they began by making a straight return bend without a cleanout hole. They then drilled a hole at the cleanout location slightly smaller than the desired finished opening and the tubular brass of the bend was then swaged out to form the finished shape and size at the cleanout location. A short piece of threaded brass tubing was then inserted into the opening and soldered in place and finally they screwed the cleanout cap on the end of the threaded brass tubing.
In this case over time the threaded brass tubing corroded and fused into the cleanout cap so that when the cleanout cap was turned instead of the cap unscrewing the solder joint broke and the treaded tube came out of the return bend. If you examine the section of brass tubing extending out of the cap in the last photo you can see where it was originally soldered into the tubing. That problem is quite common when working with old tubular brass fittings and generally Plumbers do not even attempt to remove the plug, but rather they take the entire return bend off to open the line for cleanout.
It was mentioned that this is an "S" trap, which is illegal, but that is not correct.
It is true that S-traps are now prohibited by code and may no longer be used for Plumbing, but here we run into an issue of semantics.
"Plumbing is defined as the act of initially installing a piping system whereas the act of repairing an existing system is defined as "Maintenance".
When performing Maintenance we are required to maintain exactly the original configuration, therefore given that an S-trap was code approved when that line was first installed you are required to replace it with an S-Trap.
If you were to move that sink or do a rehab on the bathroom that involved changing the location of any fixtures or the physical configuration of any of the piping you would then be performing an act of plumbing and as such, all plumbing within that room would have to be brought up to the code that is in effect at the time the rehab is performed.
"therefore given that an S-trap was code approved when that line was first installed you are required to replace it with an S-Trap. "
While you may be able to continue to use an S-trap under the grandfather rules, you are NOT required to continue to use an s-trap.
Grandfathering is a permission, not a requirement.
Any number of jurisdictions have required that older installations NOT allow grandfathering of some methods.
Ask you local AHJ.
The national codes are model codes.
Jurisdictions are free to alter them as they wish when adopting them.
When performing an act of maintenance you are required to maintain the exact same configuration as the original layout. Any alteration of the original design is an act of plumbing and the local AHJ would be well within their authority to demand a permit and require the entire room to be brought up to current code.
But then if you were a real plumber you would have learned that in the apprenticeship classes.
And what constitutes maintenance is subject to the enacting statutes that the local AHJ obeys.
It is very far from uniform.
If you actually read the local enacting statutes you would realize the model codes are rarely adopted in their entirety without modification.
The extent of changes required when a portion of the system is altered is often in the enacting statutes.
In this instance the correct course of action was to repair the S-Trap but since you seem to be so insistant upon changing that drain to a P-trap perhaps you would care to explain how the pipe would have to be reconfigured to fit in a P-trap and meet code compliance.
Hi, the OP here. Wow, I didn't expect to get any responses after I posted that my spouse had replaced the pipe with that darn hole in it. :-)
brickeyee, thanks for posting. Your comment that it's an old S-trap is spot on. It looks exactly like a drawing of one that's in my "How Your House Works" book.
Why the S-trap is no longer code? I mean, the limited amount I know is that a trap is supposed to have the water in the pipe to prevent sewer gases from coming up and killing us. I presume in the past the Powers That Be thought the S-trap was good enough for the past. What's changed that makes it not good enough in today's world?
lazypup, thank you so much for responding with the description of the "swaged" piece and soldered joint! That totally makes sense with what I was seeing! I can't tell you how nice it is to have an answer to that part of the puzzle. (It would have sat in the back of my mind and bugged me.)
And I have to admit--though you both have more knowledge and experience than I do--it does make me feel better to hear there's a difference between "plumbing" and "maintenance" (or at least, that in some places, the AHJ would recognize a difference). This is an old house, and even though in an ideal world, it would be better to upgrade the S-trap to a to-code trap, I find I have to pick my battles with what to upgrade and when. I do find it heartening to hear that I don't have to dread calling a plumber if and when this sink has a problem, for fear that he's going to be required to tell me that to fix the S-trap from leaking would mean re-venting that sink by breaking into the wall behind it (which is what I think it would take to put a P-trap there).
So, my appreciation to both of you, for taking the time to provide the knowledge that you did here. I thank you, and I'm sure that someone someday running across this thread via a Google or GW search will also thank you! :-)


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The ways that Axiom Verge resembles Metroid help set up and drive home the ways that Axiom Verge is most definitely not Metroid.
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A theme used very often in fantasy and sci-fi settings is that of a brutal, totalitarian empire or kingdom whose armies oppress the common people. Evil Empires appear under many names in various game worlds, including simply "The Empire".
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Well I'm 26, I've been in the military for 6 years now, I'm currently going to school and pursuing my degree in criminal justice. I'm also a proud father of a 2 year old boy, he's my life atm along with school and work. Have no worries I do have time to meet new people and friends maybe something more.
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Full time for the CT National guard, its fun and a rewarding job with fantastic benefits.
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Drawing,videogames,and shooting.
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Movies: pulp fiction, smoking aces, red dawn(new and original), dark knight trilogy, boondock saints, braveheart, full metal jacket, hamburger hill, platoon, saving private Ryan, and Congo.
Books: anything James Patterson.
Music: rock n country with a lil dubstep.
Books: anything James Patterson.
Music: rock n country with a lil dubstep.
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Think outside the box. Sometimes the little things can say a lot.
1) My phone need it for work and other meaningless life exploitations.
2) My Xbox gotta love Netflix.
3) guns guns and more guns:)
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6) My friends cause who else will do the dumb shit I want to do with me.
2) My Xbox gotta love Netflix.
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6) My friends cause who else will do the dumb shit I want to do with me.
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The Snowflake Sisters
Two snowflakes named Crystal and Ivory travel on Santa's sleigh and make their way through the wintry sky until they become part of a snowboy in Central Park.
Publisher: New York : Atheneum Books for Young Readers, c2003.
Characteristics: 1 v. (unpaged) :,col. ill. ;,29 cm.
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text:
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text:
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To contact the Brain Injury Alliance of Iowa:
Call 1-855-444-6443 or Email email@example.com
Currently, more than 3.1 million children and adults in the U.S. live with a lifelong disability as a result of TBI and 6.4 million have a disability due to stroke. (Statistics courtsey of the Centers for Disease Control and the Heart Disease & Stroke Statistics 2010 Update At-A-Glance.). This translates into more than 95,000 Iowans living with disability from acquired brain injury. That is more than the populations of Sioux City, Waterloo, Council Bluffs, Ames or Iowa City.
Governor Signed Proclamation!
We are excited to announce that the Governor signed a proclamation, declaring March 2015, Brain Injury Awareness Month in Iowa. This comes just a few short days, after our Advocacy Day at the state capitol. Once again this year, well over 125 people showed in yellow tshirts asking for a better system for Iowans affected by Brain Injury. Thank you.
Save The Dates!
April 18, 2015 - The 6th Annual Run, Walk
and Roll, in Iowa City.
Register Here
NOTE: A list of available archived webinars can be found on the Support page
March 29 at 6pm. More Money,
Fewer Problems: Managing your work and disability benefits,
Register Here
Iowa Rolls out Integrated Health Homes
Integrated Health Home (IHH) is a team of professionals working together to provide whole-person, patient-centered, coordinated are for adults with serious mental illness (SMI) and children with a serious emotional disturbance (SED). Individuals enrolled in Medicaid and who meet criteria for an SMI or SED are eligible. For more information about the IHH and the Iowa plan for rolling this model out, please click here.
BIA-Iowa Webinars now Archived Online
Did you miss one of our lunch & learn Webinar sessions? Or maybe you want to watch the information again or send a link to a friend. Now you can view past webinars at your convenience. Click Here to view our webinar list to select the topic you would like to view. We just ask that you complete an evaluation after watching so that we can continue to provide quality information.
Looking for resources and supports dealing with brain injury?
Neuro-Resource Facilitation helps people with brain injury and their families find answers to their questions. This is a free service dedicated to helping people choose, get and keep needed services and supports. Professionals and others are also welcome to contact us to receive more information and assistance.
To speak with one of our Neuro-Resource Facilitators, please call the Brain Injury Alliance of Iowa at: 1-855-444-6443 or e-mail us at firstname.lastname@example.com
Individuals may also request to receive an Iowa Brain Injury Resource Network Information Kits (also known as the "Tote Bag") A "Virtual Tote Bag" can also be viewed online by clicking here.
IMPORTANT: The contents of this website, informational packets or handouts, such as text, graphics, or images are for informational purposes only. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment or for legal advice or representation. Please seek out a medical or legal professional for those types of services.