text:
If ever a place could be haunted this would be the place, now a historic site this site was a place of suffering and isolation '
Port Arthur was a prison, or convict settlement, from the…from 1830 through to 1877. It started off as a small logging camp, but in 1833 was expanded to become a full penitentiary. The main penitentiary is the building in the foreground, which was built later on. At its height, Port Arthur had about 1,600 convicts here, so it was a very large place. The convicts themselves – all men – actually described Port Arthur as being hell on earth. "They broke men's spirits," that's their quote. I would say, simply, they drove a lot of men mad. Very unpleasant place.
The site was self sufficient and could provide most items the prison needed.
Easily the most imposing ruin on the site, the Penitentiary began its life in 1843 as a flour mill and granary. In 1857 it was converted into a penitentiary capable of housing over 480 convicts in both dormitory-style accommodation and separate apartments. Also containing a messroom, library and Catholic chapel, the penitentiary was flanked by the Watchmens' Quarters, as well as a range of workshops and an ablutions complex. Gutted in the 1897 fires, the building lay derelict until a concerted conservation program began in the 1960s.
Technique: 5 exposures, Tonemapped in Photomatix
Equipment: Nikon D70, Nikon 18-200mm lens
wonderful work
Fantastic capture Philip!! :)
First image I've seen of the structure holding the walls up (I suppose). Love this.
Hey, I think I saw something that moved, out of that right window, after I stared at this work for a few minutes. Hmmm, haunted, maybe so!
Outstanding HDR image Philip. As always you have captured all aspects of the scene and composed it into magic.
Great work. – Peter
great Image Phillip. There is a film coming out called Van Deimens Land about the convicts that escaped. Should be interesting.
yes i dont think they got far
– Philip Johnson
Great HDR – Did you feel sad and repressed when you were there – I certainly did.
nope Phillip they ate each other.
Great hdr Phillip. Love port arthur!
Stunning capture and treatment Phillip.


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Michael Rand started RandBall with hopes that he could convince the world to love jumpsuits as much as he does. So far, he's only succeeded in using the word "redacted" a lot. He welcomes suggestions, news tips, links of pure genius, and pictures of pets in Halloween costumes here, though he already knows he will regret that last part.
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Jon Marthaler bakes up a delicious batch of links for you every Saturday. Other times, you can find him here. Jon?
I don't know if you have been watching much tennis lately. The Australian Open, the first major of the year, has been happening over the past couple of weeks, but as a marquee evening matchup in Melbourne takes place at 3:00 a.m. here in America, it can be a little difficult to follow. Even so, this year a tennis-loving friend encouraged me to give it a try, and so I've been following along and watching replays of matches on ESPN3.com. Here's what I've learned: tennis is awesome.
I watched Thursday's semifinal between Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal. We often say something in sports is "unbelievable" when we mean it's great, but Nadal hit a couple of shots that, seen live, were quite literally unbelievable to me, in that I could not comprehend how they were physically possible. A number of times, Federer hit a shot that most players wouldn't even bother to chase. Even Federer would seem to relax. And then suddenly Nadal would accelerate from a slide in the opposite direction to a full sprint towards the ball, which by that point would be over the baseline and past the Spaniard. And somehow Nadal would take what seemed like a desperate hack, a lunge like a man trying to save a glass jar from falling off a shelf, except somehow he would reach back behind where he possibly could reach, and he would violently twist and hit a powerful shot back across the net. And not only would it clear the net, but it'd shoot past Federer and land an inch inside the line.
And the tension! My word, the tension! The two were so evenly matched that every winner felt like an uppercut in a prizefight, every missed shot or error a haymaker absorbed. Every game of the match felt like the eighteenth hole of an all-square Ryder Cup singles match. That's the best comparison I have, to match-play golf; tennis requires much of the same touch and endures much of the same pressure. Except the game takes place at a hundred miles an hour and in the blink of an eye.
On with the links:
*Appropriately, the first link is about tennis. I admit I haven't watched any of the women's side of the Aussie Open; the Economist says the women's game is in a slump, and blames the lack of athleticism in women's tennis. Their solution: five-set matches for women as well as men, at the major championships.
*Spencer Hall wrote a eulogy for Joe Paterno. I think Spencer Hall may be my favorite writer right now, and I'm not limiting that to just sports.
*Chris Brown at Smart Football thinks that this is the most imoprant game in the history of the spread offense. You don't remember? Watch this. GAAAAAH I REMEMBER THE PAIN AND IT STILL BURNS.
*John Bonnes thinks that Prince Fielder will give the Tigers three or four more wins next year. That's good, but as Bonnes points out, that's not enough to take them from "question marks" to "prohibitive World Series favorites."
That'll do it for me this week. The Australian Open Final is tonight at 2:30am, so I'm not sure I'll be able to convince you to watch it live. I hope you get ESPN3.com at your house. I encourage you to give it a chance sometime Sunday. Sit down, watch, and see if your jaw doesn't hit the floor a few times.
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Aroids from seed?
I was wondering how easy aroids are to grow from seed? I have come across a few sources, but there has not been any info on how readily they germinate, conditions etc.
In my experience, they germinate quite easily so long as they are fresh. My experience includes Syngonium, Amorphophallus, Alocasia, Philodendron, Anthurium, Caladium, and Synandrospadix.
They need to be kept warm and moist but not wet. Some are easier than others to germinate, but all need to be watched for fungus and/or bacterial infections.
Hope this helps,
Here is a link that might be useful: Aroidia Research
I agree with LariAnn, it is not that hard but really depends on what type of Aroid you are trying to grow. I have only tried growing Cyrtosperma, Philodendron and Anthurium from seed and have had success with them. Philos come up easily in seed starter soil kept moist and warm. Anthuriums do well soaked in luke warm water for a few hours, then remove flesh. Clean and put in Clean Spaghnum moss and keep in a warm humid place. Cyrtosperma the same as Anthurium.
Hi, John !
I sowed Arisaema consanguineum on the 7th of january 2004 and seedlings appeared at the last days of may 2004. They looked nice, I putted them into shade and forgot them a little bit. They overlived in their pots with much sandy-substrate. And as our falls are often very moist, they have been moist during the whole winter in glasshouse. They became dormant very early and got up only on the mid or end of June 2005. But they are wonderful,have nice leaves now and I think, next year they will flower. So retain this: they must not become dry during their first winterperiodes. Good luck!
In you guys' experience,..these subtle variations in leaf detail...are they likely to stay this way or go crazier still? I fancy the idea that because these guys did not come from slips off another host plant,but are,each of them,unique genetically speaking,they will show their individuality more and more as they mature.
In expecting this,..am I chasing my tail here?
No you got it!
Seeds offer incredible genetic diversity!
Even if the plant self pollenates, there's a good chance, especially if one or both parents ate hybrids!
I can't speak for those plants, but many aroids get better color as they she, some go all green, I think algolema general get more color as they age.
Aglaonema commutatum isn't a hybrid though,right? From what minimal research I've done to answer that so far I'm guessing the answer is no,but I still have hope to see more and more unique characteristics.
In another thread I spoke of recently having visited the same library again to discover (to my delight) that the ags there had gone to seed again. I collected 20 more ripe seeds and repeated my experiment. So far all the seeds look healthy and one of them is beginning to sprout! Color me excited!!
Another thing worthy of note is that although I've only ever heard of ags being really slow growers(sure is true of the one's I have propagated by cuttings),the seedlings from last year have grown at a rate that I really wasn't expecting.
I really don't have a long history of sowing seeds,as I've always believed that slip cuttings was a shortcut to having a larger plant sooner,but in this case it's hard to say.
It will be red.
The yellow berries aren't ripe enough yet.
When you have a ripe one the flesh is about maybe an eighth of an inch thick around the seed itself,and you remove this first. The red will stain like crazy so use a paper towel to do this part.
Last year what I did at that point was to drop the seeds in one of my ten gallon aquariums that had a film of moisture on the bottom and covered it again to trap the humidity. Before I knew it,they started sprouting. This was when I put each one in it's own little cell(seen in pic above). Since then they've all been moved to yogurt containers,and some have already outgrown those.
This year's seeds were started in a ziplock bag,again with just a film of water. One of them started to poke out a little green point,so I put them in a terrarium.
Hopefully I didn't do this too soon.
We shall see!
From what I've read,self pollinating isn't possible. The male flowers open first,and are spent by the time the female flowers further down the spadix are ready.
There were more ags around which explains where the pollen came from(males on one plant were active at the same time as females on another),but the confusing part is that I've also read that the regular pollinator is a type of scarab beetle native to the rainforests that ags call home that are specialized to the task.
Very confusing.
I could have it all wrong of course.
Maybe self pollination is actually a possibility(would sure explain a lot).
Also Hand pollinating is doable. Never done it myself,but I've seen websites that show you how.
Not sure how long the berries take to ripen,but when I went to the library there they were waiting for me. Hard to say because it was the first time I'd been there in quite a while.
Here's a link to a thread that has pics of last years seedlings.
Also some good links worth looking at.
Here is a link that might be useful: Link
the reason i was asking - i got a pink thai ag and it constantly throws flowers. but it's a hybrid, so no use trying to get seeds - they are proly sterile. but i entertained the thought anyway, since your seedlings look so good!
i found some info that says only ag.commutatum and it's cultivars can be propagated from seed.
thai ags are supposed to be hybrids of ag.rotundum.
Decided to switch things around a bit. Put the seeds in this container atop a bed of wet pea gravel.
Notice that I'm keeping it on top of some terrarium lights for bottom heat.
Here's a handful that have been moved to a ten gallon tank and each given their own little cell of mix.
Upper left corner is one of the seedlings seen up-thread. They've all had a spoiled winter under glass so naturally for the most part they've been chugging right on along.
At the moment the current headcount is nine,so I'd say this has been one of my more successful experiments. =)
having never tried these from seed, am I understanding from all the posts, that you do not have to stratify the seed in the refrigerator for a couple of months before trying to germinate? if I gather the seeds in the fall, can I plant them right then indoors or outdoors or both? any help here appreciated. would really like to try this...
First of all,a big THANK YOU goes out to Jfr1107 for hosting the thread and providing a place to have this discussion.
Assuming he,and any of the earlier posters are still around,I hope you will chime in(this thread is coming up on 9 yrs old!).
Sounds great,let us know how it goes. If you know someone with a fruiting ag,it may be sooner than the fall. My latest batch of berries was collected early last april,so who can say when these things set seed and if they even really have a schedule when in cultivation,right? Good luck in your search!
I had a tiny little konjac like...a million years ago,but it was a bulbil,..not a seed...and sadly,it got lost in a move. Sowing amorph seed sounds like a fun challenge,and one I'd be happy to rise to given a chance. Never actually looked into places where one could order aroid type seeds. If any have a recommended source,feel free to relate your experience.
Steve,those titanums are looking good! Keep us updated on their progress,okay?
As to my latest ag sowing experiment,so far 15 out of 20 have popped and if that's "all" I get for my effort,3 out of 4 really ain't too bad.
Ahhhh...ebay then.
Never bought anything there before,actually.
The day I break down and look into it will likely be problematic in that whole overdoing it kinda way.
So I'm still resisting! ;)
I hope You will be willing to provide us with updates here and there on those seedlings,Steve...from what I understand they're pretty fast growing plants.
One thing about these titanum seeds is that most of them will be viable, but they will launch at different times so you will have them at all different stages of growth.
The key to growing them successfully is to use sterile soil, and making sure they always stay above 45F because these are tropical plants which can be stunted or damaged by cool temperatures. They adjust to higher light very easily due to their thick leaves. Right now the one on the right in the middle picture is just about fully uncurled however the top one in the bottom picture looks like it will be bigger than the rest.
Only the one on the top has already started forming a pin ball sized tuber which should keep growing until it decides to produce it's second leaf which should be much larger. I believe it will happen once this leaf has gathered enough energy from the full sun it gets outdoors now.
My titanum seedlings are now 3 years old and they're getting into brief dormant periods now after being in constant growth since they first sprouted. They also went through a stage of multiple leaves, up to 3 at one time. The old tuber is dormant at the moment. It goes through a year of growth and then a year of dormancy. Should re-emerge early September. Also have a leaf cutting with a developing tuber. Will start doing a lot more of that once new growth comes on.
so i decided to try and sprout the ripe red berry too - from anthurium plowmanii monster may be 5'-6' high?
they are quite small the 1st two years - so i should be ok for a while yet, provided they'll survive winter...
out of 7 seeds 5 swelled up well, and 4 seemed to be starting to sprout in 3weeks..when they got knocked over ....:0!
but at least 2 survived and made 1st leaves.
they are still in perlite with LF sphag underneath.
i kept them on a heat mat and domed from the start and 1 week later they sprouted. then i started opening the lid up and using heat mat only at nite.
now it's 1 month after sprouting.
i have the beginning of the 2nd leaf. and they are in bright light with just a little dappled sun. they kept leaning and i kept moving them until they stopped - which was a foot from the window under other plants so in dappled shade.
This post was edited by petrushka on Mon, Jul 28, 14 at 10:22
Anthurium plowmanii seedlings!
OOOOH I'm so jealous!
I love the variety of shapes and textures available in anthuriums but haven't seen anything but the typical flamingo sort available for years. Had a bird'snest anth like fifteen years ago or so but lost it in a move.
Nice work Petrushka!
Here's an update on my latest batch of ags...
it's only thanks to your posts about ag that i got an idea!
so are these the 1st batch or the 2nd?
i am thinking of getting an aquarium and setting up closed terrarium for these babies - 'cause i'll be going on vacation inevitably.... i also sprouted a cycad (zamia furfuraceae) and lignum vitae tree from seeds i picked up on a street sidewalk :)))...
for now they are sitting under a cut-off 2qt plastic bottle with an opening on top.
ARGH...I just lost one of those sago nuts under glass not so long ago...the darned thing rotted on me when I had had success with these before.
Purp sent it to me and I really wanted to show it off too.
Awesome that yours popped for you though...they really are amazing critters,aren't they?
I'm honored to have been your inspiration,Petrushka. It's cool feeling like your part of something. :)
Get the aquarium.
It's worth it!
Edited to say that these seedling are from the second batch. The first batch got smacked with bad weather,and what's left of it wasn't looking too good but we shall see what rises from the ashes,so to speak.
This post was edited by asleep_in_the_garden on Wed, Jul 30, 14 at 13:14
wow, i don't put my babies out, i coddle them to the max!
last year i got an idea from grab about alocasia bulbils (did you see my posts about that?) - it's not seeds, but pretty close, since you can't really propagate hybrid from seeds.
most of bulbils except for 2 went dormant in jan when i was away. but i woke them up again with the same technique.
they have grown quite a bit since.
here's my brood sunning in the window :).
i think i'll go and update that thread with more recent pics. this forum is so-o slow, might as well indulge myself.
Here is a link that might be useful: how i woke up my african mask bulbils
This post was edited by petrushka on Wed, Jul 30, 14 at 20:30
Hi Petrushka!
Sorry I've been away so long.
Your collection of growing bulbils is just incredible...look at them GO!
My poly decided to go dormant on me again and in frustration I put it in a box and sent it to Purpleinopp. I have high hopes that it will perform better for her down in lower alabama. The growing season up here just isn't that long so at least down there it will have more of a chance to thrive.
I have had such a horrible history with these...it was the humane thing to do! lol
Currently growing Monstera plants from seed. Hard part is to find fresh seeds, after that it's easy. I had 20 of somewhat old seeds, out of 20 4 gave me baby monstera sprouts in 2 weeks or so. Lately we have rather cold days, so they develop slower than expected.
I also received fresh batch of seeds this Friday, not sure how those perform yet.
Oh man...that's a bummer.
My first thought was omg fall is upon us...they'll never make it..!
...Then I looked at your info there and saw you were in zone 10. lol
Personally,i'd have started them indoors in a terrarium,but where you are at,I imagine it's about the same thing to sow outside. :)
Oh my...7 is a little chillier,but from what I've read,established callas with a secure root system should have no problem getting through the winter. Question is,will seeds that haven't germinated yet make it?
Hard to say,but up here in minnesota,a couple years back,I had tomatoes that were flattened under a couple feet of snow,which to my amazement,after the entirety of the cold season,actually had viable(and germinating)seeds within.
Color me hopeful! :)
LOL now I have one more reason to wish spring would hurry up and get here...and it's not even winter yet! ;)
my flowering anthurium andreanum 'alabama' had thrips, and apparently they serve as pollinators. there are 2 stems/plants in the pot - and they are blooming at the same time too. so, to my surprise i can see seed berries forming! i saw a post somewhere (plants are the strangest?) that they sprout very easily, like in 2 weeks if fresh, in moist LF sphag. but the question is, how long will it take for berries to ripen? prolly a few months or more?
hey, i've been documenting quite a bit, but there's hardly any response or interest: why bother? i always take pics for myself though, there's a chance i'll post 5 years from now when my a. plowmanii becomes a 4' monster and i plop it in the ground someplace in FL ;). or my african mask seedlings become my ground cover! that will be the day.
a.plowmanii is on a 4th leaf and it is about an inch now. i'm going to get a plastic critter cage for use as a small terrarium and see if i can completely close them off in it for the winter.
found the seed post.
it takes 5-6 mo for seeds to ripen! and then 3-5 years for the seedling to bloom - way OVER my head. but i sprouted cyclamen from my very own seed-pods (much harder! to sprout) and grew seedlings enclosed in an egg-crate for a year! and out of a dozen got 2 plants that survived - which i kept going strong and flowering profusely for 5 years, overwintering indoors of course. that was just a whim..
so, it could be that i can sprout and grow anthuriums too...
actually there are many-many lengthy posts about seedlings and hydrids and how they develop,etc - lots of good reads, but you have to pop open each calendar entry to see if it's about anthuriums. there's often interesting commentary too.
Here is a link that might be useful: anthurium andreanum seed propagation
This post was edited by petrushka on Sat, Sep 6, 14 at 13:56
so i decided it was time to pot up my anthuriums plowmanii sprouts into 3" pots. Lined with coco-fiber 'net' with yarn wick inserted inside for self-watering, then a thin layer of lava rock to absorb extra water and get more air down at the bottom. and then i layered LF NZ moss with a little perlite mixed with reg canadian sphag, then lifted the root ball undisturbed from the original 'tub' and tucked in more LF NZ sphag on top and around, pretty loosely. so it's 50% LF sphag and the rest perlite.
they will be covered with very tall domes made from clear plastic 2qt bottles, with top open for ventilation - until i set up a terrarium for them.
one is double the size of the other. here's a pic
by no means did I mean to imply that you haven't been an awe inspiring contributor(you really are,you know!). Sorry if it seemed that way. I agree that things are pretty slow around here all things considered,and I know I would participate more regularly myself if I wasn't constantly distracted by one thing or another.
Thanks for the link. PATSP is a great blog,and I haven't looked into it much lately so it's great to look into it again.
The seedlings are looking great!
Really impressive stuff going on over there!
Still haven't gotten around to acquiring long fiber sphag yet. The more I see your successes,the more I realize that it's crucial that I get some.
I know I'm hardly alone in appreciating your contributions here at GW. The experience and creativity that you so willingly share are priceless...and while I can totally relate to the "why bother?" mentality,I hope the general lack of participation doesn't slow you down too much. You're input would be missed more than you know!
thanks for kind words, asleep! my plants keep me going, so to speak ;).
you got me started on berries, who knows whom i will start on bulbils?
the more the merrier.
i read somewhere that LF sphag stimulates root development and has also anti-bacterial properties, which is good for young plants. there's an interesting experiment going on in orchid forum about growing phals in various mediums to see what works best. LF shag is of course in many mixes. interesting info about it, go check it out.
i supplement with reading other online forums, since i find that houseplants turned into 'plant-killers' parade for most part - i find it more and more depressing. it's like a giant tsunami wave that never stops. i like talking with more experienced growers - not many of which are posting regularly, unfortunately.
but i make do. i found a post on ATP about exoticrainforest site archived at IAS site. it's not very active there either, but there are sev growers posting - which is more then here. seen a few people from here too.
I've been a member of GW for quite a while now,and somehow I am not really able to find the energy reserves to participate much in much else,forum-wise. A few months ago, Purp turned me on to ATP,and I made a profile there and even took part in a discussion or two. It's a pretty cool place,and yes..I too have noticed a few of the regulars from around here as well. If/when the day comes that I can pull myself out of the rut I'm in,I'm pretty sure that's where the over-spill will run. A creature of habit...to a fault. *sigh*
Oh by the way...the other day I mixed up some plant food without measuring...just kinda eyeballed it,right? Something tells me I should have been a bit more exact in my method because I used it to dribble my seedlings with and thankfully only one of them is yellowing,but something tells me I burned them a bit. Sometimes it really is like I'm sleepwalking around here only to wake up later wondering wth I did this time. Gets pretty frustrating. lol
bad-bad-bad! i hope you're not planning to finish your 2nd batch BEFORE winter? so you can lazy for a few months :)?
see, LF shag has nutrients enough for orchids to grow for sev years. with minimal supplementation of micros. that's a big plus. i read about aroids that nursery people use fertilizer with high (60%?) urea vs high nitrates - for initial fast growth. urea is utilized much faster.
i use kelp in the very beginning and after a couple of months AV fertilizer 7:7:7 - with reg dilution of 7 drops per qt. and i water with a squeeze bottle just on the perimeter (small sauce/mustard bottles with nozzle are great), not near the stems...most aroid seedlings grow rather slow - so they don't really need that much fertilizer, especially with some sphag and peat in the mix.
think i should be able to switch to wick watering with liquid ferts for a.plowmanii in a few months. then it's easy!
i find energy by switching focus: var silly propagation projects and new plants mostly.
some successes counter-weigh inevitable problems. but this year the greenhouse thrips wore me out to the bone. but i'm gaining on them. i HAVE TO be clean for winter, it's like a packed greenhouse here - one stumble, and then it's months of spraying...by the way PATSP has a big problem with thrips too. and of course i do AV's too - which are a total feast for them! more like banquet eternal ...
i found a solution: bag and fumigate with mothball flakes for about a month to be sure. works like a charm on all plants, except begonias (don't even ask!). that's what they do for gladiolus bulbs - to kill off thrips in the bulbs over storage period. of course, my amaryllis were a breeding ground too...sigh
paraphrasing m jackson:
You Wanna Be Tough, Better Bag What You Can,
beat it-beat it ... bag it - bag it !!!
Very interesting that you should mention mothballs as a fumigation for thrips...I remember finding similar info regarding scale. When I mentioned it on a scale thread a year or two ago,nobody (that I noticed) said anything about it,either to the good or to the bad,..so naturally I've wondered about that.
Last year's indoor sentence for my plants was strangely lucky and I saw no outbreaks,but now that I see you state that the mothball approach is safe I'll have less fear in implementing it in the future should the need arise.
LOL when you say don't even ask (concerning begonias),you KNOW you only make us all the more curious,right? ;)
So far it's only one leaf on one seedling that went yellow on me. Funny thing is that it would likely have been chalked up to some other issue had I not remembered what I'd done on the day just previous. So far it looks like any damage was minor. Needless to say that in the future I'll have to be more careful when mixing up feed solutions...I can be pretty brain-dead sometimes. heh
it's safe, but when you unbag them - do it in a well ventilated space.
i crush/bag outside or in the bathroom, where exhaust will pull it out fast. gladioli people put moth balls/flakes in sealed paper bags with bulbs, since bulbs can't be in plastic directly and need to breathe and will rot from condensation.
i think you can do paper-bags and then plastic. that's what i'll try.
i use 1 moth ball crushed per large dry-cleaners bag and put flakes in two bottle caps, not directly on soil. so i see if it needs refilling. and i won't be dealing with after fumes when i unbag and remove the caps. i've had no smell whatsoever in the apt - so was sealed OK.
and of course, it has to be air-tight to work. i seal dry-cleaning bags on top with clear postal tape and gather up the bottom tight around the pot and wrap an elastic around to keep it tight. anything stretchy will do, so long as it's air-tight.
but it didn't bother mites! - and i had high hopes! scale? so smbody said it worked on them? that would be handy! last year i did sev sprays with fish emulsion (citrus forum recommendation) on outdoor plants before bringing them in. and i did not have scale in winter -1st time ever! but i still use bonide indoor systemic too, since i can't monitor for long stretches at a time. gotta do what you gotta do.
don't even ask ..- indicates extreme frustration and anguish...yah, it could be relieved somewhat by venting. glad you asked :)))!
my biggest tuberous begonia monitored closely after a week was fine, after 10 days many leaves/stems just dropped off, rotted. and i did spray with antifungal prior to bagging. it's surviving outside now and started regrowing - but it was awesome looking before 'treatment'. now 2/3 of foliage is gone!
sorry, it's a bit of a side-line conversation. sigh. sniff...
need to bag african mask seedlings too - same problem: thrips. almost eradicated them, but without bagging can't be sure.
see pock-marks on the left leaf - could be even worse.that's thrips and they live inside the leaf sheath - so for aroids it's impossible to get rid of them by just spraying, you can't get inside the rolled up young leaf!
the leaves can come out totally clean, and then they hatch a week later...
you prolly can't see it well, but on a.plowmanii right seedling there are white spots on leaf-edges: thrips again.
and here's the flower anthurium leaf thrip damage -spots and squiggly lines. and on the spathe you get this ugly brown lines. you can see them on a lot of spathes at PATSP.
No dice on spider mites,eh? That's too bad...makes me wonder about the scale,which I've never had much luck fighting over the winter,but once outside nature remedies it pretty quickly. It's like the predators are just waiting with forks and knives in hand. lol
So the leaf loss of the begonia was brought about by the mothball? If not,then what?
Of COURSE I welcome venting! Let it all out! :D
Here's a shot of my yellowing leaf...
so these are 2-3" ? looking nice.
as far as tuberous begonia goes - it's not the mothballs, it's bagging. stagnant air i'd guess, too hi humidity. the large one is hairy like rex - they are very sensitive to all kinds of molds. i think that's what got it.
i was weary - sprayed anti-fungal, but even that was not enough. probably if i'd unbagged it after 1 week for a day or so then it would've been at least better? who knows...
some gain, some loss. i am not THAT fond of it, it drops buds constantly, but it was just monstrously impressively HUGE....
it's already shooting 4 new stalks from the base!
where is your homalomena?
I had an escargo many years ago but lost it in a move. Much as I loved it back then,I really haven't paid much attention to beggies in general. I'm sure I'll get the bug again one day...they are way too beautiful to ignore forever.
Got the homalomena(emerald gem) late last year and took a teeny weeny division from it to keep a little journal with. You may have seen the post. It surfaced now and again as I updated it. Meanwhile later in the winter(I know...worst time to do this) I ended up dividing the rest of the plant up. A while back I sent the one form the journal and a slightly larger one to Purp,and they've been doing great for her(I'm so pleased!) The largest of my divisions is in a terrarium in the front window. I really wish I got more light in this location.
Anyhoo...here's a shot of the ter out front...
From what I've read it's tolerant of conditions with less than perfect humidity,but if and when I can,I spoil them with terrariums Last winter I had the plant in the open air in my bedroom and it started to decline on me. That's when I decided to tear it apart and re-start the divisions.
Personally,I think they need it more than some indicate out there on the web.


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Barnes & Thornburg snags another veteran Twin Cities lawyer
- Jim Hammerand
- Digital editor- Minneapolis / St. Paul Business Journal
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A veteran employment lawyer at Dorsey & Whitney has left for Barnes & Thornburg's Minneapolis office.
Roy Ginsburg joined the Indianapolis-based firm on Monday after more than three decades at Minneapolis-based Dorsey.
Ginsburg represents private and public companies in employment and commercial litigation. At Dorsey, Ginsburg defended Cisco Systems (Nasdaq: CSCO) against lawsuits seeking $1.3 billion and $500 million, and he also represented Xerox (NYSE: XRX), Northwest Airlines and Alliant Techsystems (NYSE: ATK).
He had been at Dorsey since 1980 and a partner since 1986. He joined the labor and employment law department after more than 20 years in the firm's trial department.
Dorsey had a rough 2012, according to recently released financial results. Ginsburg said the firm's financial situation was one factor in his move, but that he was sold on Barnes & Thornburg by the quality of its management and its Twin Cities expansion through "effective cherry picking."
"The things they're doing in Minneapolis are incredibly exciting," he said.
Barnes most snagged three insurance-recovery lawyers from Lindquist & Vennum in January, as I reported while writing about the increasing number of Twin Cities lawyers moving from firm to firm.
Barnes & Thornburg's Minneapolis office, led by former Faegre partner Peter Ekberg, has grown its roster to nearly three dozen lawyers since it opened in 2009 with the purchase of the Parsinen Law Firm.
Jim Hammerand reports on Twin Cities breaking business news for MSPBJ.com and manages online features and social media.
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I use a variety of thicknesses and vary it for given recipes based on traditional styles.
I use thicker mashes closer to 1 qt/lb for English and UK styles and more traditional 1.25 to 1.75 qt/lb (for highly attenuative styles) for most other styles. From what I have seen documented, only mashes outside of the usual 1.25-1.75 qt/lb thicknesses will give you anything but very nearly equivalent results.
That said, I also try to adjust based on mash schedule. If you are going to do a multi-step infusion mash, you will want to start thick and add judiciously as to not end up exceedingly thin. Likewise, if you are doing decoctions (usually attenuative german styles that you are trying to keep a lot of malt character), you can start out right in range and stay there through mash-out. Also, I fly sparge, so I do value a thinner mash to a higher degree than batch spargers might.
Obviously, YMMV, but I don't think enough evidence exists to give anyone enough conviction to tell you there's a right or wrong answer here.
I use a very scientific approach to this...what ever ratio gets me closer to half unit measurements in my mash and sparge quantities. (Meaning I'd rather measure out 3.5 gallons and 4.5 gallons then 3.3253 gallons and 4.653432 gallons).
Reading over Brewing Better Beer by Gordon Strong and it mentions that thinner mashes may cause too much dilution and enzymes may not convert as much, as good, as fast... So I would stay away from getting the mash too thin. On a typical brew day he suggests 1.5qts water per lb of grain. I do like one of the above mentioned posts that if you have a NON-heated mash-tun going a little lower offers the ability to adjust temp if need be by adding more water without running the risk of getting a thin mash. I think I will give that a test run, starting with a 1.25qt ration then adding more as needed for temperature correction.
[COLOR="Navy"]Happy Brewing :)
I've been reading about overnight mashes. The word on the street is to use 1.75. I suspect this is driven by thermodynamics (keeping the mash hot) rather than fermentation, though.
I use 1.3 for no particular reason. A round #
I initially calculate for 1.5, then round the resulting strike water number and recalculate the ratio for BeerSmith.
As RM says, BIAB can get great efficiency at full volume. I might have less than 20 AG brews under my belt but as soon as I went to full volume my efficiency went way up. I think if you were brewing something with very little Diastatic power then a thin mash would leave it too low to convert starches to sugars. If your using mostly self converting grains with high DP then go as thin as possible while maintaining correct pH of your mash. That's easy for Biab'ers who don't sparge but if you do need to sparge then obviously don't go so thin that you have no volume left to spare with.


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A slight majority of the American people don't think President Obama deserves another term. According to the AP-GFK poll 50 percent of American adults think he deserves to be voted out of office, while only 46 think he deserves another term. But Obama still beats the leading Republican candidates in head to head match ups.
Unpopular President but Unacceptable GOP Replacements
|By: Jon Walker Thursday October 20, 2011 7:12 pm


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Book your room at Shore Stay Suites
SuiteMax Occupancy: 2 guests (up to 1 child, 1 infant)
Deluxe Room, 2 Queen BedsMax Occupancy: 4 guests (up to 3 children, 2 infants)
Hotel located in Cape Charles
Situated in Cape Charles, this hotel is close to Kiptopeke State Park. Area attractions also include Bay Creek Golf Club and Cape Charles Beach.
Hotel Features
Shore Stay Suites provides laundry facilities, tour/ticket assistance, and a picnic area.
Room Amenities
In addition to cable television, guestrooms include beds with pillowtop mattresses, kitchens, and complimentary wireless Internet access.Information missing or incorrect? Tell us!
Hotel Amenities
Hotel Amenities
Shore Stay Suites features tour/ticket assistance, a picnic area, and laundry facilities. The property has a front desk available during limited hours.
Shore Stay Suites is a smoke-free property.
- Total number of rooms - 19
- Front desk (limited hours)
- Tours/ticket assistance
- Laundry facilities
- Picnic area
- Smoke-free property
- Number of buildings/towers - 1
Available in all rooms: Free WiFi
Room Amenities
- Furnished patio
- Ceiling fan
- Phone
- Kitchen
- Private bathroom
- Free toiletries
- Television
- Cable TV service
- Free WiFi
- Cookware, dishware, and utensils
- Pillowtop mattress
Nearby Things to Do
The recreational activities listed below are available either on site or nearby; fees may apply.
- Golfing nearby
- Kayaking nearby
To make requests for specific accessibility needs, complete the "Special or Accessibility Requests" section of "Trip Preferences" when you book your hotel.
- Accessible bathroom
- Accessible parking
Hotel Policies
Check-in time starts at 3 PM
Check-in time ends at 11 PM
Special check-in instructions:
Check-out time is 11 AM
Payment types
Pets allowed, Only dogs are allowed, Maximum number of pets per room 2, Pet maximum weight in lb is 100
You need to know
Extra-person charges may apply and vary depending on hotel policy.
Government-issued photo identification and a credit card or cash deposit are required at check-in for incidental charges.
Special requests are subject to availability upon check-in and may incur additional charges. Special requests cannot be guaranteed.
Service animals exempt from fees/restrictions
No rollaway/extra beds available
No cribs (infant beds) available
No elevators
- Pet fee: USD 50.00 per accommodation, per stay
We should mention
The property allows pets in specific rooms only and has other pet restrictions (surcharges apply and can be found in the Fees section). Guests can arrange to bring pets by contacting the property directly, using the contact information on the booking confirmation.


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TMNT 9 colour screen print inspired by the 1980s cartoon.
Hero Complex Gallery (2014)
Collaboration with Truong Vu Pham.
Official artwork for Disney´s Big Hero 6 (2014)
Illustrated movie poster for Godzilla (2014)
Alternative movie poster for Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)
Set of 3 illustrated character posters for Thor: The Dark World
Man of Steel illustrated movie posters. Dusk and dawn editions.
Illustration from 2006 for Superman Returns. Experimented with an animatable/cartoony style.


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Staff was nice, hotel is clean.
Hotel had few amenities I've grown accustomed to. No shampoo, ironing, dryer or breakfast provided. Though we were on the smoke-free, pet-free floor, there were a lot of smokers at this hotel. Elevator perpetually reeked of smoke. Slamming doors late into the night made for restless sleep. Hotel could provide a few amenities, including 1/2 & 1/2/creamer cups versus just powdered creamer for the meager coffee and tea provided in the morning, since they're not providing breakfast.
good customer service, friendly people, nice view
I can't think of anything I did not like
the rooms had been updated and the location was great
the internet wouldnt work all night. The icemachine didnt work.
I loved how close to the water it was! You can hear the ocean while you sleep. You open your window and you feel like you are already at the beach. The office staff was very nice and check in and out was very simple. Beautiful.
The bed felt like a board. My husband loved it but I could not get much sleep. No cushion at all. Also we were only given a half of a roll of toilet paper.
The view from the room was the only thing that made the stay at this motel from being a disaster
The rooms and hotel is rundown and outdated. The coffee machine did not work. The area in front of the motel allows vehicles on the beach and they had fires and were partying most of the night.
It was clean
I booked a room with two queen beds and a balcony i got a room eith two double beds and a full kitchen no balcony this was a special trip with my granddaughters who had never stayed in a motel i will never use u again or stay at the sandcastle motel
I made our reservations months ahead+have to admit was kinda nervous wondering if it was gonna be okay.We drove about 5 hours to get there+we were greeted by a friendly gal at the desk,the room was clean.We got a room on the 2nd floor,excellent view.
It was all good,No complaints from me :
The hotel is right on the beach with easy access. The rooms are dated. The kitchen was great to have in the room to feed the family. The hotel has a wood shed onsite to build a nice fire on the beach. The staff were really friendly and accommodating.
The kitchen needed to be better supplied. There was one frying pan, no baking pans or cookie sheet and one huge bowl. Cooking a meal had to be planned around this. Only one bathroom per unit and no balcony.
Thier pillow top beds in the living room are to die for! Amazing comfort. The view is breathtaking. Great that it has a full kitchen!
Cleanliness , this is an older hotel so it is run down. The bathrooms are kinda gross. The carpet is gross. Don't walk barefoot!
My shampoo that was in the bathroom, was a used one.
Enjoyed view of ocean. Enjoyed the jacuzzis tub, lots of room for 2.
Noise above room, but you always run into that.
The view of the sunset on the ocean was amazing.
No elevator.
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- TRRT April 1-7 | Online Edition
- Guest Commentary: the Rockford Apartment Association
- State Roundup: NIU employee improperly reimbursed $30K
- State Roundup: Governor signs budget fix bills
- Rauner, Democratic leaders shake hands and make law
- State roundup: National guardsman and cousin arrested in terror plot
- Lawmaker says license plate readers a privacy threat
- Bryant not the first to feel impact of free agency rules
- State Roundup: Parents' group calls for standardized test opt-out bill
- Hononegah Mack: 'The best woman in the county'
On the Waterfront favorite The Dunwells at Kryptonite
Staff Report
The Dunwells will play Kryptonite Bar, 308 W. State St., Rockford, on their international tour, stopping for their most intimate show at 9 p.m., Friday, July 5.
The Dunwells headlined one of the stages at last year's (final) On the Waterfront (OTW) Festival. OTW CEO Becky Genoways loved this band, and always made sure they had a place to play in Rockford.
Kryptonite wanted to make sure the U.K. band would still have a venue in Rockford. Their latest hit, "If I Could be King," is on the top 40 Billboard charts and gaining national spins. USA Today wrote of the band, "British folk-rockers marry CSN&Y harmonies to U2-style guitar riff on title track from debut album."
Local artists Long-shot, fronted by Brad Long, will open the show.
Tickets to the show are $10 in advance, $15 at the door. Visit http://KryptoniteBar.com and on Facebook at KryptoBar, or call (815) 965-0931.
From the July 3-9, 2013, issue


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Huntington's Disease Society of America
- Our Mission
- Our History
- Find your local HDSA Chapter, Affiliate or Regional Office
- Staff directory
- Financials
- Board of Trustees
- Careers
- Faces of HD
News & Announcements Archive
- Huntington's Disease Society of America Announces 2015 HDSA Centers of Excellence
- Global Outcomes Data and Possible New Therapies in the Huntington's Pipeline
- Jang-Ho Cha, MD, PhD Appointed Chairman of the Board of Trustees at the Huntington's Disease Society of America
- Huntington's Disease Society of America Awards Additional HD Human Biology Project
- Auspex Press release
- Marathon Team Raises 80K
- CREST-E Phase III Clinical Trial Stopped Early for Lack of Benefit
- 2CARE HD Clinical Trial Stopped Early for Lack of Benefit
- 2CARE study of coenzyme Q for Huntington's disease ends in disappointment
- HD and HDSA In The News
Singer-Songwriter Taryn Reneau Wrote and Releases her song "Cure," to benefit HDSA
Now available on iTunes and CDBaby.com
New York NY May 30, 2012 – Growing up in Chicago, Taryn Reneau learned about Huntington's disease (HD) as her father's best friend suffered from it. After moving to Los Angeles to pursue an entertainment career, Taryn attended a Huntington's Disease Society of America (HDSA) Team Hope Walk and was so inspired that she became involved in sponsoring the annual Team Hope Walk event. Most recently, Taryn was nominated to the board of HDSA's Los Angeles Chapter.
At the events she attended, Taryn felt that something was missing – a song which could carry the message of hope and recognize the amazing work being done by volunteers and caregivers, in addition to the scientists, clinicians and other professionals who work to help people affected by Huntington's disease.
Today, Reneau's anthem, Cure, is available for purchase on iTunes and CDBaby.com. Proceeds from sales will be donated to Huntington's Disease Society of America to support HDSA's fight to improve the lives of people affected by HD and their families.
"What inspired me are the people I know who have Huntington's disease. The people I know who support them as family members," said Reneau. "To witness the strength and love in those families, under incredible obstacles, is beyond inspiring. It's moving. I was moved to write 'Cure' and I hope it moves those who hear it to support the cause."
"We are so grateful for all that Taryn does to help people with HD," said Louise Vetter, CEO of HDSA. "Her volunteer work, especially for someone without HD in their family, is exceptional."
Reneau will debut the song in a live performance at the 27th Annual HDSA Convention, Friday, June 8th at the Red Rock Resort in Las Vegas before 1,000 HD family members, who will no doubt, shower her with applause – for her wonderful song – and for her big heart.


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trapped air in plumbing
fritzgaJune 5, 2014
My system goes from one line that is lower in lawn to another system that is higher in lawn. My problem is that air is trapped in the system and all heads now "pulse" several times a second as the trapped air moves from the high spot back to the head and then back to the high spot. Same thing happens in a house but there the plumbing can be cleared by opening the taps. My sprinkler system is restricted by the pressure at the heads.


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Change to drop-in times!
There will be no volunteer drop-in service on Wednesdays until 11th March when it will start again. Our apologies for any inconvenience.
The Tuesday drop-in is still running with the normal hours of 11am until 3pm, with someone here to help you run a search and find volunteer opportunities that may be a fit for you.


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Winnipeg Free Press - ONLINE EDITION
Never mind vaccines — send rubber gloves and gowns
The question of how to fairly distribute scarce doses of experimental Ebola treatments is capturing the world's attention. Yet the fate of the epidemic doesn't rest on getting these expensive and unproven drugs to the afflicted African countries. What medical teams there need most are protective masks, goggles, gloves, gowns and boots.
This gear enables doctors and nurses to care for Ebola patients without risking their own lives by coming in contact with the virus in patients' vomit, blood and feces. The equipment is in such short supply in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone that, for lack of it, medical workers have fallen ill. About 15 percent of Ebola deaths in Liberia are of doctors and nurses, and 10 percent of those in Sierra Leone are hospital workers.
This exacerbates the shortage of care providers to contain the outbreak, and deters additional helpers from joining the effort. Outside organizations, including Doctors Without Borders, the World Health Organization, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Defense Department have sent reinforcements, but they, too, are overwhelmed.
With the epidemic still expanding, thousands more volunteers must be recruited — ideally from countries in east and central Africa. Caregivers from these countries already have Ebola experience; they know how to identify and isolate the infected, trace their contacts and care for the sick. Such care can keep more than 40 percent of sufferers alive, which in turn encourages others with symptoms to go into isolation.
Yet few additional workers will join the fight without sufficient protective gear. To supply them, governmental aid agencies, such as the Agency for International Development and China's Department of Foreign Aid, as well as health-care philanthropies, should organize and fund deliveries of this equipment on an emergency basis.
It would help, too, if the protective suits that Ebola caregivers wear could be improved, and quickly. The ones in use now are so stifling, they can be worn for only about 30 minutes in the tropical heat. Sometimes workers remove the gear momentarily to cool off — a potentially fatal mistake. A science-oriented foundation could establish a prize for the rapid development of a suit that would keep viruses out but let air in.
In the meantime, yes, it is valuable to consider how best to allocate experimental Ebola therapies. Health-care workers, essential to controlling the epidemic, should be among the first to receive the medicines. Priority should also go to patients whose progress after treatment can be followed, so that doctors can learn as much as possible about the drugs' side effects and efficacy. Patients' overall health and life expectancy should be considered as well. Young adults with otherwise uncompromised health are better candidates.
In setting these priorities, though, public health officials will have to keep in mind that even if, against the odds, the treatments work, they cannot be produced in quantity fast enough to significantly slow the epidemic. Yet Ebola can be defeated without them, given enough trained medical workers diligently tracking cases and caring for the ill — medical workers who are equipped to do the job.
—Bloomberg News
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PepsiCo UK has announced that it has reduced salt levels in its Walkers Crisps by a further 10 per cent.
The promise to reduce salt in its savoury snacks is just one of 27 health pledges PepsiCo made in its 2010 Health Report - a document outlining the company's ambition to drive future business growth through healthier products.
Since the report was launched in March last year, PepsiCo said it has:
• Further reduced salt in Walkers crisps by 11.7%, meaning Walkers are now 55% lower in salt than in 2005
• Invested in healthier ranges to broaden their appeal, such as Sunbites, which has recently benefitted from a multimillion pound advertising campaign featuring Rebecca Ferguson
• Increased the proportion of its crisps and savoury snacks that are below 160 Calories per single serve from 71.8% to 73.3%.
• Signed up to the Department of Health Responsibility Deal.
|Jun 10th 2015 - Jun 15th 2015
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International Potato Processing and Storage Convention
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Gecko S-class 4.0kW, 240 Volts horizontal replacement heater Therm Products part# C2400-0800ET. Stainless steel flo-thru heater manifold measures 2" x 15" long and includes a heater element rated at 4kW/240 volts, assembly includes grounding lug studs, mounting studs, split nuts and 2" tailpieces. Dtec pressure switch sold seperately.
Manufacturer's 1 year limited warranty free of defects
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Looking for some patterns!
fireflymercenaryNovember 29, 2006
Hello everyone! I'm very new here and I'm just wondering if anyone could share some patterns with me :D.
I'm looking for any
My Little Pony
Care Bear
or Precious Moments
Patterns. If you could assist me in this situation, I would very much so appreciate it! I'm broke, my husband and I had to move cross-country since he's in the Air Force, so I'm cross stitching for Christmas gifts this year.
Thanks for you're help!
Please Email at firstname.lastname@example.com


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enjoi has done it once again, this time with the gut-bustin' Art Classics series. For this inspired collection enjoi took pieces of fine art and imposed pictures of their riders face on them. Genius, and hilarious. Ever wondered what Louie Barletta would look like as the Mona Lisa? Well, now you know. Pick up your new enjoi art classic from the Series Spotlight page and be sure to check out the trailer for enjoi's new video Oververt!
Series Spotlight | Deathwish Freak Show Decks
If you missed the freak show at your local county fair don't worry, Deathwish has you covered. From Strongman Jon Dickson to The Horrific Lizard King, these boards each have a personal touch from their respective pros. Brian Hansen may as well be dog-faced and it's well known Ellington is a human oddity. With a heavy dose of humor and one of the sickest teams out, this series is an ace in the hole. And as always, Deathwish provides top notch wood and shapes in sizes to suit any skater. Pick em' up HERE.
Series Spotlight | Organika Growth Control Decks
If you're tired of the same ol' same ol' look no further than the Organika Growth Control Series. This fresh new take from Organika brings you three radical shapes from three radical pros. Eli Reed, Walker Ryan and Josh Matthews are all featured on brightly colored, 80's inspired graphics and shapes to help fulfill all your wildest dreams. Take 'em for a cruise, to the park or hit the streets- these shapes are highly fun and functional. Check 'em out on the Series Spotlight!
Series Spotlight | Palace Knight Decks
The Knights series is Palace Skateboards most recent offering after their union with our pals over at Baker Boys Distribution. Palace is raw and unapologetically skateboarding, so it only makes sense they teamed up with one of the most skate-rat distributions in the game. Now that Palace is more readily available to us in the states, you can expect to see a lot more from them at SW! Pick yours up here!
Series Spotlight | Habitat Java Decks
Habitat Skateboards is one of the sickest brands out. After teaming up with the boys over at Tum Yeto, Habitat is running strong and swingin' harder than ever. In their most recent venture they present the Java series, featuring pro models from Stefan Janoski, Mark Suciu, Brian Delatorre, Daryl Angel and last but not least, Silas Baxter-Neal. Much like the abundant culture of artisan coffee, Habitat is a reflection of style and tastes from those who know it best. If you haven't tried one out yet, now's your time to check em' out! Or if you're a loyal Habitat fan get back in on the action HERE
Series Spotlight | Sk8 Mafia Legends
"It was all a dream…" still readin Thrasher Magazine, Sk8 Mafia, Peter Smolik in the limousine! The brand-new Sk8 Mafia Legends series depicts deceased musical legends in illustrated monotone glory. If there's one thing that's for sure, Sk8 Mafia sure knows how to create wall-worthy graphics and pair them with some of the best wood and shapes in the biz. So hang em' up or skate em', these boards are sure to be future classics. Pick one up at Skate Warehouse!
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Viking Appliances? Yes No?
Hello to everyone! I am new here so please forgive me if I am posting to the wrong forum!
I am re-doing my kitchen appliances and here are the appliances I am interested in. ( prices reflect quotes done by appliance store ) Please voice your opinions as I am not familiar with appliances and I do not want to make a mistake in buying a bad brand.
VCFF136SS 36" French Door(no ice maker) $3590
VDSC5304BSS 30" Dual fuel range $4840
VWH3010SS 30" Wall Hood W/21 10"H $990
VWCI1240GRSS 24" Wine center $2620
VDB40SS 24" PRO DW $980 ( they gave me 750 off )
Post this in the Appliance forum. They have definite favorites and personal/professional experience to share. Then, you will feel more confident in your choices.
A big thing, though, is not choosing an entire line but picking the best performing appliance that meets your needs from each line available and in your price range.
I have no experience with this line, but my friend had poor luck with the refrigeration products from Viking.
The following is a bit of what I've gleaned.
Fridge- Sub-Zero and Liebherr are popular for their performance and configurations. Electrolux has some fans. I have the all fridge Icon and I love it.
Cooking- Wolf, Thermador, Gaggenau, Miele and Bosch rank high overall for cooking appliances. Capital Culinarian and Electrolux gets good marks from some owners who post on that forum, as well. The views will vary depending on range, cooktop, and oven so it's a good idea to focus in on the type your interested in getting. Pay attention to the induction owners. There are pros and cons for all types of "burners". I'm pretty much sold on induction to replace my current cooktop after being a die-hard gas fan.
Hood- Haven't paid attention since my ceiling height and island cooktop limit me.
DW- Miele and Bosch are favorites. I have a Bosch 800 series and it's wonderful. Very energy efficient, great cleaning, very quiet. LOVE it.
Good luck and remember that it's function that will make you happy in the long run. Matching is not important.
I've not had any issues with my DW, but it's only been a year. The only thing that you may or may not care about is that plastics aren't completely dry at the end of the cycle. Opening the door when the cycle is complete helps in the drying process, but I usually have to put tupperware type things in the dish drainer or leave them in the dishwasher until dry.
Oh, and baked on food requires a good hand scrubbing, so I don't put those in there. I understand that Miele has a function for this.
I don't rinse the dishes, just scrape. I use half of a Finish tab (use the ball half for the bigger/dirtier load), and something like Jet-dry is necessary. Mine also has a water softener (our water is horrible) so I buy a salt product for dishwashers from Amazon.
I much prefer open burners.
Th older viking 30 inch deual fule was available that way, it appears to be no longer offered.
Sealed burnersmay appear easre to clean, till you have to clean the stove top in place after a messy spill.
The open burner stoves come apart into small sections that can be taken to the sink for cleaning, along with the spill tray under everything.
The only thing that must be cleaned in place are the rails holding the burners underneath everything, and the hidden wiring and gas lines feeding the burners.
Everything that shows is sink cleanable.
I think the appliance forum will put you off Viking. I had to laugh at marcolo's post because as a realtor myself, I thought Viking was the best until I read the appliance forum. Now, I bite my lip when I see them in a kitchen, lol.
We have a Bosch dw for almost a year now and love it thoroughly. I leave it open for a bit after it runs to dry things, but I always preferred to do it that way and not waste energy....
i'm also in the decide mode regarding our appliances. I was absolutly going to have a Viking range, dual fuel although I'm doing 36" but the oven put me off. compared to the GE Monogram oven, it's small, much smaller. The GE also has 3 rolling racks, compared to the Viking's one and they are self cleaning so you can leave them in the oven during the self clean mode. Also, if the Viking fridge you're considering is a free standing you should know that it's made my Kitchen Aid. Viking makes their own built in's but not the free standing. I choose the Electrolux based on my needs and wants. It's counter depth FD. I didn't research the DW since I had decided on the Miele so I offer no opinion there. Range hoods are confusing. I gave that decision up to DH since we have install issues to deal with and so many call for a ten inch duct, won't work for us. Good luck, it's confusing but you will do just fine.
Refrig: Since viking free standing refrigerators are made by Kitchen Aid, are the Kitchen Aid's good?
DW: I found that Asko makes Viking's dishwashers. I thought that Asko's were top of the line?
Range: People have been saying that the range is an accident
waiting to happen. Why is that?
Thank you all for your support!
I have a Viking range hood insert in our custom hood. I'm not impressed. It's very loud and it doesn't draw well at all. I would not buy it again.
(I love my Wolf range and Bosch dishwasher though).
Below is a link to Viking owner's thread and their opinions.
Here is a link that might be useful: Viking owners from Appliance forum
acw6455, the range hood doesn't draw well. To me, that's a huge issue, since that's what I bought it to do. A range hood that doesn't suck, well, sucks. On the other hand, it hasn't broken. I guess that's something.
why wouldn't you search out the very best brands for each appliance? i have a hard time understanding why most of my friends own a range that costs thousands more than my capital, and is an inferior product. i've never owned a viking anything. mostly because i've done too much homework. but do check on the appliance forum ...and good luck!
I put a Viking dual-fuel in my last kitchen. It was beautiful. But it took forever to boil a pot of water, stir-fries were a joke- never got hot enough, the oven was horribly uneven, and it had some weird sparking problem which turned out to be a short which threatened to burn the house down. It was a $4k dud. Sad to say, the old Kenmore which was in the house we moved into worked much better. It was too bad, because that Viking was good looking. And, lol, because of the comments about realtor, it definitely helped sell that house.
It really turned me off professional-style stoves since the Kenmore could bake 3 cookie sheets perfectly, water boiled in minutes, its high-powered burner was great for stir-fries, and it never tried to burn the house down.
I wouldn't pay more for a Viking fridge over a KA. KAs are very fine fridges, and Viking gets HORRID fridge reviews. I bought a built-in KA for slightly less than the Viking fridge price you quote. This is my third KA (left one with the first house and replaced a smaller, older one from the old kitchen), and I highly recommend them.
I've never heard of anyone happy with a Viking DW.
If you really have to have a DF range, go with Wolf. Reviews are miles ahead with Wolf. Wolf ovens are top of the line.
Hello all,
We renovated our kitchen last summer which included all new appliances.
I purchased a Viking dual wall oven (electric) and gas rangetop.
I cook seven nights a week and am an avid baker and love both appliances. My only complaint about the rangetop is that the black "pan" under the burners tends to show every little speck of dust.
The ovens are great. It does take longer for them to preheat than my old standalone oven but they are also larger inside and out.
Haven't second guessed myself at all.
I always agree with, "where there's smoke, there's fire," but you do have to consider that Viking is by far the largest of the "Professional" components brands. So, by sheer numbers, they'll have more complaints. Make no mistake, they all have complaints. Some facts from a very good source: (1) only consider the very top Viking dishwasher model (VDB450E, I believe). The others have known issues and aren't very good at drying. (2) The standalone fridges are actually Amana, which is part of Whirlpool which also owns Kitchenaid, Jenn-Air, and Maytag among others.
I have read a lot of bad reviews, but I have also read A LOT of good ones too. So I I think I might go with my original viking plan.
My appliance dealer told me the same thing about the dishwasher.
Wish me luck! I will be posting pictures of my new kitchen soon!
I had a viking 36" bottom freezer refrigerator that was nothing but a problem. After two years of service calls, they replaced it as a lemon and guess what, the new freezer had the same problem. It didn't drain when it defrosted so you had ice build up in the bottom of the freezer. If you are spending that much on a fridge, you might as well spend a little more and get one that doesn't have a history of problems. Or spend a little less and not go with the professional name.
acw6455 - just wondering why you're so married to Viking appliances. I've hung out on this forum and the appliance forum for a long time and while it's true that every brand gets good and bad reviews, Viking has had more than it's share of complaints, particularly on it's ranges and refrigerators and on it's poor customer service.
While the company may have turned around some, there's no way I would consider buying Viking appliances at all. I would also not buy Miele wall ovens (though all of their other products get rave reviews) nor would I buy KA ranges or ovens although I do own a KA fridge and DW both of which are excellent.
In the price range in which you're talking, you'd do much better with Sub-Zero fridge, Wolf range, and Miele DW but hey, it's your money - you're free to buy what you want.
I am baffled by this as well...there are other options for the money.
Although not duel fuel, I would buy the Capital or Bluestar open burner range over a Viking any day and give up the duel fuel. Both are less than the Viking. The Capital Precision is $1500 less and has open burners, more power - a wok burner - and a rotisserie.
The Wolf (again not duel fuel) is only $65 more than the Viking and a better product.
Wolf also has a promo going on now if you buy multiple products. SubZ and Wolf might be in the same range with the up to $2500 instant rebate.
Have you looked at Capital, Bluestar or Wolf???
Here is a link that might be useful: Capital and Bluestar
I hate these kinds of threads. If you aren't going to listen to opinions, then why post in the first place? There is a subset of people who post not to actually learn and gain insight, but rather hoping to have other people pat them on the head and tell them they made the right choice. Fifty people could say "that's a terrible decision," and one says "great idea" and the OP walks away saying "see, I made the right choice."
I think the OP is listening more to the appliance salesman (a highly unbiased source LOL) than to the posters here. I'm a steadfast believer in diversity when it comes to kitchen appliances (lacanche, miele, thermador, Uline, bosch, panasonic, modern aire/fantech in ours). An all viking kitchen--boring!
My Viking AG range was a lemon right out of the box when they installed it on a Friday. The ignitors were the problem. They repair guy came out on Monday and had it fixed in 10 minutes. Seems there was a polarity issue with the wiring inside the range. I've had no problems with it since the repair. Granted, it's only been a few weeks, but it's working perfectly at the moment. I have to say that it is a pleasure to cook on this range as compared to my old one, but it's my first professional range experience and I'm sure other pro brands are just as nice to cook on.
If I had the range to do over again, I would get the Wolf range instead. I understand that all companies have lemons, however, due to the fact that my Viking range was a lemon right out of the box, my confidence is shaken in their range products and I live in constant fear that my Viking range is going to malfunction. My advice to potential Viking range owners is to spend the small amount of extra money it will cost and get the Wolf range.
I also own a Viking vent hood and drawer microwave. I like both of those products and only have minor complaints about them. The vent hood is a bit noisy, but again, it's my first experience with pro appliances and I'm not used to having a higher CFM blower. It works well. The microwave annoys me because I can't cook something and use the timer function at the same time like I used to do with my cheap Whirlpool OTR micro. If I had those two purchases to do over again, I would probably have spent less and bought the Sharp drawer since the Viking is made by Sharp anyway (I DID know that before I purchased it). I bought the Viking drawer because I didn't want the handle on the outside, but now that I have it installed, I find myself wishing I had a handle on the outside. On the vent, I'm not sure if another brand would be any less noisy, but the salesperson recommended the Vent-A-Hood over the Viking, said it was a better product and it was cheaper too. The vent decision was based on vanity. There, I said it! I wanted the Viking name on the vent hood over my Viking range. [shrug]
My advice overall to anyone buying appliances is to do your homework before buying and buy the best appliance you can afford for each item. As others have stated, I would not recommend buying a suite of appliances that are all the same brand. No one company makes the best of every type of appliance. My appliance purchasing plan was NOT to buy all Viking appliances and still isn't. When I replace my DW and refrigerator they will not be Viking products.
The good news is at least you didn't get the VAH hood. I really don't like those!
and kudos for admitting the vanity aspect of the purchase. we all have some (I love my little oval Lacanche insignia on my range) but are usually not honest enough to admit it.
I guess the post wasn't really a question of whether to purchase them or not. The PO is probably really excited about the suite, the name, the look and had no idea that the general attitude wouldn't be "Ahhhhhh! Love Viking!" and is instead "Oh noooo, not Viking!"
I really hope you don't have any trouble with them OP. I would be incensed if my several-thousand-dollar appliance wasn't wonderful from the get-go.
I can't imagine being in Sugarcookies shoes. I hope all goes well from here on out.
Viking really needs to somehow improve their reputation in these circles...I am not sure how(or even if) they can do it.
To the OP - I really hope you are happy with your purchases, and I also really hope that if you ARE happy you post here again at suitable intervals to tell everybody. We need some solid, recent, first hand information on here about how Viking is doing.
We ourselves are waiting to install a Viking induction range, hood/blower, and dishwasher. I have to say that given the prevailing opinions here, I was really hesitant to go with Viking...I wrote them off early on, as simply not worth the risk. We ended up with them after all only because we decided on induction instead of gas, and they are the only ones who do a colored induction range for NA, and that was really important to my DW. The hood is viking only so it can be colored and match the range perfectly; I am dead sure I could have gotten a better hood elsewhere, so I am pretty much just hoping it is at least adequate. The DW is a slightly different story, in that looking at it I was actually really impressed by the construction; it felt way better built than Asko or Bosch, and sturdier if less refined than Miele...I still probably would have bought a Miele, based simply on reputation, but we got a screaming deal on the Viking so I decided to risk it. Time will tell if it was a good or bad choice, I guess.
It seems to be pretty undeniable that Viking has had some real quality issues in the past. It also seems, however, like Viking has been actively trying to address those concerns and not getting a lot of credit for their efforts. They have fixed some known issues (for example, changing suppliers on their induction burners, and changing to laser etched lettering that won't rub off on their ranges and cooktops), and they increased their warranties across the board not all that long ago. Despite that, all you seem to hear about are the past problems, and repeated warnings of horrible quality from people who usually have never actually owned anything they made.
The only way to combat the reflexive "Viking sucks" responses to every post like this is if those of us who buy them post our experiences - good AND bad - and get current info out there. Good or bad, recent real world experience is the most useful for everyone.
It sounds pretty good.
As you seen, (and probably read more than ya wanted)?, most of us here in GW are:
"Mixers not Matchers", alto as others have mentioned, it's your kitchen, and do what makes you happy.
The longer Viking Warranty "Could be" an asset, assuming you have a reliable and knowledgeable service company near by--In fact that should be step #1!!!! Alto if the appliances busticate, and you are a "Working Stiff" (LOL), It can be a Pita scheduling to get the repairs done---hopefully none are ever needed, I've only had one, (to tighten a loose handle), but I'm retired so it was a "Piece of Cake"!
As far as your selections go You really haven't told us much about the way you cook or bake, Do you do much Woking or Stir Frying, where a "Ranging Inferno Range" would fit the bill best, (Capital or Blue Star), or are sealed burners perfectly ok with you, even thou they "May" have a tendency to shoot the flames around the pots/pans on higher settings or smaller pots/pans. Do you do a lotta "Fancy Simmering"? Do You bake or proof bread, do several trays of cookies----etc etc etc.
As far as your Wine Center, I would at least look at the Perlicks (only the ones with the variable speed compressors)
as that is a much more up to date technology,
(quieter, more efficient, better temp control etc etc) than the old style compressors that are simply "Full/On Full Off.
Fridge, see if they make a Jenn-air in the size and configuration you want, they are always highly rated for reliability by subscribers to CR (Not CR Ratings, per se).
DW, either a Miele which might be easier to build in flush, or the KA, which does require a slightly deeper cabinet to be "Fully flush". I've had several KA's and all were quiet and trouble free, I now have a Miele, due to the top cutlery tray, and it too is great.
Good luck with your pending decisions In the end , it's you and your family that counts deserves to have what makes them happy and hopefully for a long time!!
I would take the time to look at the Blue Star as well as the Capital Cullinarian, you just can't beat those for Woking & stir frying, except perhaps a "Dedicated Woker" either gas or induction.
The Capital might need a lil "tweeking" to simmer to your expectations, but there are plenty of folks here in GW that can help you with that.
If you don't mind moving pot's/pans around to different burners and a simmer burner, then
Blue Star might be the way to go, If you're NOT a "Mover" then the Capital Cullinarian may be your "Cup of Tea".
Do check service availability on both of these ranges, as some have posted "Any company that services Wolf or other High end ranges would be able to take care of the Blue Star" (paraphrasing),---well that was not the case for one poster, ---Until--- A bunch of helpful "Garden Webbers" jumped in and assisted her in getting help from Blue Star!!!
To me, a built in Fridge was one of the best things we did with our kitchen, and in fact, I designed the kitchen around the 48" Jenn-air built in fridge.
There are many things we love about our kitchen, Induction, Speed Oven, single built in oven, blah blah blah, but!!!! We love the way the fridge looks and it is soooooo easy to keep clean, (The wood panels) just dont show dirt and finger prints like SS does, we also paneled our Miele DW.
Make sure you can do adequate ventilation should you choose one of these "Rangin' Inferno Ranges"!!!
"I can't imagine being in Sugarcookies shoes. I hope all goes well from here on out."
Alex - Thank you. Me too!
"Viking really needs to somehow improve their reputation in these circles...I am not sure how(or even if) they can do it."
jsceva - The way Viking can improve their reputation here on GW (and everywhere else too) is to produce a quality product. If my range continues to function perfectly I will regain some confidence in Viking range products. The longer it works perfectly, the more confidence regained. Either way it works out after some time has passed, I will update here on GW about my experiences with my Viking products.
I agree with you that giving a three-year "bumper to bumper" warranty certainly makes me feel better. I am grateful for that considering how things started out with my range.
As I said above, I do like the Viking vent hood and microwave drawer. Both of those Viking products work well. My minor complaints about those two items are more about my personal preferences and getting used to pro appliances than about the products themselves.
That came out wrong.
What I mean is that I am going to have to pay the 5K for my gas line, and I don't really want to pay extra for the all gas stove. My appliance dealer told me all gas ranges were more than the Viking I was looking at, which I have trouble believing.
Your appliance dealer is misleading you. All-gas ranges are significantly cheaper than dual fuel ranges. It sounds like he's pushing an all-Viking package on you because he gets a large spiff (commission/bonus) for selling Viking. You're getting better advice on this forum than he's giving you. Not surprising!
I think you need to find a new appliance store and sales person. Dual fuel is more expensive than all gas.
You should go to AJ Madison and do some research. The Viking all gas is $4000, the dual fuel is $4600. In both cases, less than what your sales person is quoting you.
Wolf all gas is less than Wolf dual fuel.
Since you can do all gas, you should not eliminate Bluestar or Capital - both are better than what you are considering and likely less expensive.
IMHO, you are getting taken for quite the ride.
Here is a link that might be useful: AJ Madison
From all we see, acw6455, you are looking at Dual Fuel ranges?
So wouldn't you have to unfortunately pay the 5 grand whether the range was an AG or a DF?
The only way to beat that, and still get great performance would be to go with Induction.
We don't really have enough posts about Woking with induction yet, to really give you a good idea how well it works/woks, but I suspect with the correct Wok, Induction would do a good job. It will certainly boil water faster than any gas range, and simmer better too!
You would have to compare the cost of installing an Adequate
power connection to the Induction range to the 5 grand it will cost you to get gas to the range.
I'm still a bit confused about why you "Need an Electric Oven", alto myself I prefer them,
(Just Me and What I'm usta). Once you hook up the gas to the range there should not be any additional charge as far as hooking up the gas oven that the range has, as more than likely it feeds off the same supply. Only thing I can think of is the gas line is only big enough for the cooktop and not big enough for both the cooktop and the oven, but that would be rare indeed, alto some of these "power house Gas Ranges" would probably tax that gas supply, if indeed that is the case.
Good luck with your project!
@sugar: my VAH dislikes are a longstanding refrain especially on the Appliance forum where the ventilation-obsessed hang out.
In short--poor performance, extremely loud, a huge PITA to clean well, and overpriced for what they do. I think they must have some huge incentive program for appliance dealers, as they almost all talk about how fabulous VAH hoods are. I suspect it's similar to the Viking sales troll who is advising the OP about the range. What nonsense--"all gas ranges cost more than a Viking dual fuel." And as MichelleDT points out, Modern Aire can match anything that Viking does with color, and makes a superior hood in almost every way.
For obsessive details, see vent hoods and noise, the real scoop on VAH
And to echo weissman and Michelle again, your appliance dealer appears to be, at best, an idiot, and at worst, a crook. I'd be looking elsewhere!
no way is an all gas range more expensive than dual fuel. i bought my capital precision three years ago for a little over $5K for a 48". a good friend paid $12K for her (stupid) viking. her builder arranged a special "deal" for her. yeah, that was special alright!
Gary's again on the money, though a few thoughts:
Given that induction requires direct pan to surface contact, how does a wok work? I guess they must make some kind of flat-bottomed wok specifically for induction?
As for gas line capacity: I doubt that is a limiting factor. We have a six burner Lacanche Cluny 1400, with one gas oven, plus two gas furnaces, plus two gas water heaters, all running just fine off one standard (I believe 3/4'') gas supply line. So I don't think a single all gas range would be a problem with any kind of standard installation.
I wouldn't necessarily say that all-gas provides a significant advantage over dual fuel but they're comparable. Some serious bakers prefer electric ovens because they feel they provide more even heat but many professional bakers use gas ovens. Good gas ovens do provide even heat and also more moist heat - great for baking bread and roasting meats and poultry. I have an all-gas DCS range and am very pleased with the oven.
Take a look at this Capital Precision - 4 burners PLUS a 25K BTU dedicated wok burner - for $3900. $1000 less than the Viking you are being pushed to.
The BlueStar is open burners and a bit more expensive and then there is the Capital Culinarian which also has open burners at $4600.
There are many options other than Viking and Wolf for ventilation...the range and hood DO NOT need to come from the same company.
Here is a link that might be useful: Capital Precision
My appliance dealer told me all gas ranges were more than the Viking I was looking at, which I have trouble believing.
All-Gas costing more than Dual-Fuel? What is this person smoking?
I have been reading this thread carefully and everyone has given great advice and stories of personal experience.
Want to know how to stop an appliance salesperson in his or her tracks? Arm yourself with knowledge and call them on it. Have appliance comparisons in hand. Don't be afraid to say, "well, I heard differing opinions about *insert name of appliance and brand name here*. Let me show you the umpteen owner reviews. My budget is W, I want X and I won't tolerate Y or Z." Not to offend anyone, but appliance salespeople are worse than some car dealers. Pushy, opinionated and don't "drive" the very products that they sing so many praises about.
"Given that induction requires direct pan to surface contact, how does a wok work? I guess they must make some kind of flat-bottomed wok specifically for induction?"
They do,clinresga, but we have seen few posts here as to how those flatbottomed Woks work. I do recall one positive post, but as I mentioned, posts on Woking with Induction are
"few and far between".
The other thing would be, (I think), is that you would be stirring that which is within the Wok more, instead of shaking the Wok, as I suspect most Wok users do??? (alto I don't claim to be an expert on Woking.)
Just wanted to let you know that YEP, there are Woks made for induction, buttt we need to know more about them and how they work, but we can start a separate thread on that.
Yeah, your dealer is assuming that you didn't do any homework. He almost hooked you. A Viking suite was putting money in his pocket.
I'm a believer in hiring an expert/professional for direction and advice but I'm also responsible for what I do with it. Whether it's a salesman, doctor, lawyer, etc. I still have to do my research and ask questions.
You are the only one invested in YOU.
acw: this thread got so long I think some got behind, but I think you are a classic GW success story of someone who (contrary to my initial opinion) came with an open mind, triggered a very lively discussion, listened hard, and made what I think are great choices. I won't jinx you by predicting great success, but these are all appliance choices that would get the "seal of approval" over on the Appliance forum, where pickiness reigns. Hope you love the appliances, I am pretty sure you will!
Congradulations on your decisions acw6455.
Please review the appliances after you have used them for a while, particularly the Wolf range. How does it Wok, is the heat sufficient for effective Woking? "Maybe" not all of us need the "Rangin' Inferno ranges" for Woking?,---Inquiring minds wanna know! (LOL)!
Is the Range an AG, and if so, how do you like the performance of the Oven/s.
I think Viking ranges are the appliance that people love to hate. Ever since Sub-zero and Wolf merged, it seems that Wolf has become far more popular. I think Wolf makes a very good range but my preference would be a Viking. I had a Viking range and loved it. I don't think the Viking can simmer at as low temperature quite as well as a Wolf, but other than that, I find the electronic panel on the Wolf annoying. I also don't care for its bulkier, squared off look. I currently have a Lacanche and it performs beautifully - both the ovens and the stove top. Bottom line, these larger, professional looking stoves (and I include my LC) are really attractive, give us a lot of options and make our kitchens look great, and are fun to use. But, our moms and grandmas cooked fabulous meals on much less, so these appliances will likely not make us better cooks. There isn't anything that's perfect, so it's likely six of one, half a dozen of the other. Go with what you love and think you'll want to use and forget the rest.
By all means....NO, do not buy anything Viking. I worked there for over 10 years in management and the products are absolutely inferior. The company does NOT care about quality, they care about quantity. They will build and ship a broken product (well aware that it will fail in the customer's home, and ship it anyway).
It's strictly ran by a couple of elite upper guys and if you buck what they say, you're fired.
Just to give you an idea, we ran out of broiler pans (this is a part that goes in all ovens). I stopped the production line. One of the "elites" walked by and asked "why is the line off". I informed him that we were out of broiler pans. He said "You turn that line BACK ON and ship those ranges."
Before doing so, I typed up a note that said "Dear customer, at the time your range was built, we were out of broiler pans. This only affects the broiler function. Please call us at 800-xxxxxxxx and we will gladly ship you the part at no cost." --- I then placed a copy of this note in each range. The "elite manager" walked by again, noticed the printout and asked "What the hell is this? Remove this paperwork and ship the ranges."
This is only the tip of the iceberg. Oh, and ASKO does NOT make Viking dishwashers (anymore). They are made by Viking in Greenwood, MS and guess what? They just had a recall on them for catching on FIRE! You can see this recall info if you go to Viking's website (home page), look at the very bottom, you will see a link that says "Safety recall" in blue text. There, you will also find recalls on other products including about 25,000 refrigerators which had VERY heavy doors that fell off and injured several people.
Proof's in the pudding........ stay away from the "elephant with lipstick".
We had been satisfied with our all gas open burner 48" Viking Range for 7 years but we recently had to have a service call for a broken ignitor for the small oven. $500 for the call and part! AND it turns out the ignitors are only expected to last for about 5 years. Our range has 3-4 of them, one each for the ovens and I believe 2 for the 6 burners--is there another one for the griddle? Yikes!
I can't imagine spending more on each service call than my very good friend just spent on a GE stove that functions very well.
We thought there was very little that could go wrong with a gas stove. This feels like a major rip off. I won't be tempted by anything Viking in the future.
Does anyone know of any place that buys Viking Appliances? We redid our kitchen 4 years ago and bought a Viking Refrigerator (mint julep). We use the freezer in the garage. The Viking is so specific and I'm afraid we won't be able to sell it even though we spent $$$$ on it. We did have to have it serviced once. They completely redid the insides and it works great now. I'm just tired of going to the garage. I live in southern California.