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Winnipeg Free Press - ONLINE EDITION
Other Opinion: Saudi Arabia's rights abuses shameful
In many nations, the privilege of driving a car requires a minimum age, passing a test and honouring the laws of the road. But women in Saudi Arabia don't even get a chance. They are not issued licenses, an informal but very deliberate discrimination in a male-dominated and deeply traditional society. Women must rely on men to drive them everywhere.
On Oct. 26, a group of about 60 women, in a display of defiance and common sense, staged a protest, getting behind the wheel despite threats and warnings from the authorities. About 16 were detained and fined, and the protest drew wide attention. Three women members of the Shura council, an advisory body, have come out in favor of lifting the ban, although so far nothing has come of it.
At the same time, the Saudi authorities appear to be responding vigorously to protests against the absolute monarchy, often using the kingdom's Sharia-based justice system giving judges wide powers of interpretation.
On Wednesday, Oct. 30, the authorities released a blogger, Hamza Kashgari, in Jeddah, after 625 days in prison without charge or trial. He was detained in February 2012 after posting three tweets that were viewed as disrespectful of the prophet Muhammad. On the same day that he was released, a prominent Saudi human rights lawyer, Waleed Abu al-Khair, said he was sentenced to three months in prison for signing a petition in 2011 that demanded political reforms and denounced the imprisonment of a group of activists. He faces other charges in separate proceedings as well, all stemming from his human rights work. On Oct. 27, the authorities detained a columnist, Tariq al-Mubarak, who supported ending the ban on women driving.
Also in recent weeks, Saudi Arabia's human rights record was subject to periodic review at the U.N. Human Rights Council in Geneva. The United States voiced concern about restrictions on freedom of religion and association; Britain called for abolition of the Saudi system of male guardianship for women; and Germany called for a moratorium on the use of the death penalty.
The Saudi representative defended the nation's commitment to human rights. But reports submitted to the council tell a different story. According to Human Rights Watch, the kingdom has convicted seven prominent human rights and civil society activists since the beginning of 2013 on broad, catch-all charges, such as "trying to distort the reputation of the kingdom" or "breaking allegiance with the ruler." Amnesty International told the council that Saudi Arabia implemented "none of the central recommendations" made in the 2009 review, including to guarantee the rights of women. A growing human rights movement in recent years, Amnesty said, has been met with "harsh repressive measures such as arbitrary arrests, detentions without charge or trial, unfair trials and travel bans."
This is a sorry and shameful record. Perhaps the women who dared steer their own cars can do it more often and drive Saudi Arabia toward modernity.
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⬅ Return to Daniel Larison: On the Necessity of an Irrational Enemy
May 20th, 2008 at 1:51pm
Did you not know that Arabs only understand the language of force?
May 20th, 2008 at 2:10pm
Nicely said. I'd like to add a theme I've been developing in my work. The irrational enemy frame is part of a larger picture. I use "frame" here in the sense of George Lakoff, with an important addition. As lakpff points out, the reactionary world view uses a simple "one size fits all" model of causality. It is called "direct cause". AGENT ----> EFFECT. The real world is not like this. Causality in the real world involves intertwined multiple causes. (Look at the myth of the unwanted effects from prescription drugs being "side effects" when all are effects of the drug). Since the direct cause model really doesn't help to explain events in the real world, the believer in this model is forced to rely on authority for explanations. Hence the wrote, parroted mantras we hear so often. I just wanted to say this to weave what you are saying into a larger, and useful model of what we are dealing with in this kind of approach.
May 20th, 2008 at 2:13pm
Since we are immersed in a culture of entertainment, films like "Rendition" may be helpful in diluting the position of the Michael Medveds of our society. We know most of our citizenry will not read books like Johnson's "Inverted Totalitarianism" (see a superb summary at http://www.alternet.org/democracy/85728)to show how critical the ACLU fight is on this and other fronts; thus, Robert Greenwald, Michael Moore and other courageous producers and directors like Rendition's Gavin Hood (who tacked on an ACLU torture/rendition documentary to his Rendition DVD release) are essential for us to have any hope of a turnaround.
May 20th, 2008 at 2:16pm
Not only do I not know that but find my Arab friends among the most gentle people I know. Could it be that you are projecting your own violent tendencies onto them?
May 20th, 2008 at 2:17pm
Judging an entire group of people by the actions of only a small percentage of that group is illogical and provocative. Torture has never proven to be an effective tool in the course of attaining and maintaining freedom; it is, in fact, a deterrent toward that cause.
May 20th, 2008 at 2:19pm
P.S. on Inverted Totalitarianism: sorry, Wolin's book, Johnson's summary. Actual primary title: Democracy Incorporated: Managed Democracy and the Specter of Inverted Totalitarianism
May 20th, 2008 at 2:21pm
I think Daniel Larison confounds the rationalization for torture with the justification for torture. All of the examples he cites are attempts to justify the use of torture; however, one needs also to ask why torture is selected as an appropriate tool for obtaining a desired outcome (Note that this ranges for eliciting information to punishment for a misdeed). Why is it that despite evidence that torture does not elicit valid data or permanently change behavior, authorities still resort to it? I believe that the answer, in part, is that they find the eliciting act so personally offensive that they use torture, in part, as an act of vengeance. If this notion is valid, then it suggests that we need to educate and select our interrogators more skillfully.
Bernard T. Engel
May 20th, 2008 at 2:24pm
Great idea. I look forward to reading comments and adding some of my own. Thanks, Anna
May 20th, 2008 at 2:28pm
An intriguing argument. Then if torture is typically not effective anyway, why exactly is it used?
May 20th, 2008 at 2:31pm
The ACLU is correct to tie the torture of alleged combatants and domestic surveillance. Torture is hardly reserved for al Queda operatives in this second term of the Bush administration. Since the torture memos became public and Geneva Convention disbelievers AG Gonzalez and Secretary Chertoff were elected in 2005 torture has become a way of life in America. Death rates are up, the economy is in shambles, primarily because of a mysterious "housing correction".
What is wrong? Torture has been popularized by public debate on a subject that is irrefutably in the wrong and that TV show 24. Torture your children with psychiatric drugs to avoid the "hard" stuff being passed out by cardiac laboratories. Torture your account holders by prosecuting bad bills with unlawful entries in conspiracy with landladies that may or may not have been authorized by the local police to poison. Torture the men until they can't work, 800,000 unemployed since last year, so women can work, 300,000 more are employed, the article making this report was censored from Google. Most of all torture the population so that they will help liquidate, for health care providers, the 16% of the GDP frozen in health sector.
If the US economy is going to recover torture must be taboo. Politicians and landladies need to stop peddling their "angina" to every Tom, Dick and Harry prosecuting corporate America. Until the housing correction ceases to turn homes into torture chambers the economy and public health is going to fail and so are the corporate conspirators. Torture is not okay in any circumstance and the legislature really needs to make this clear to the landlady who is getting away with murder and destroying the economy.
May 20th, 2008 at 2:45pm
For the average individual watching the TV news and listening to whatever pundit they prefer, we see the irrational acts of terrorists which then provides our government with the justification for treating them irrationally. We forget entirely that "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." Torture is wrong simply because we are better than our enemies and irrationality doesn't fit with our values. DuPont
May 20th, 2008 at 3:12pm
The person who left the first comment is clearly a sheep, who has had the wool pulled over their eyes by the govt. Not surprising. It's easier to stay warm and isolated under this wool covering, than be exposed to the cold hard truth. I consider it un-American to generalize in such a grotesque way, especially when America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. Stop following the herd, and stop listening to what is said in the media. Do your own research, use your brain and make your own decision.
May 20th, 2008 at 4:07pm
Anonymous says:
Read your old history books. Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. These tactics of dehumanization, stripping of rights and humanity, power grabbing by an elitist class from the people and misdirected "patriotism" combined with unaccountability for governmental actions are leading the United States of America- into the mold of WWII Germany Naziism. Nothing is new here- except the fact that WE THE PEOPLE of untarnished reputation are being swept into the positions of future war criminals and committers of atrocity at home and abroad. When will this direction be changed, soon I'd hope- for everyone's sake.
God Bless the true America and her ideals!
May 20th, 2008 at 4:32pm
I would like to think Post #1 was intended to be sarcastic. I'm going to assume that anyway.
Aside from that, as Post 13 notes, "Nothing is new here".
Dehumanization of the enemy is one of the most basic tools of a government bent on making war--particularly a war in which true provocation by that enemy is thin, absent, or fabricated.
May 20th, 2008 at 4:33pm
Nos. 4, 5, and 12, it's pretty clear to me that the first poster was making a joke. I'm really surprised that you can't tell that.
May 20th, 2008 at 4:33pm
I have never known torture to accomplish anything except injury, death or a lifetime of hatred with no result except satisfying a sadistic urge for vengeance, that is almost always regretted.
- Vernon E. Holt
May 20th, 2008 at 4:39pm
There is a word for what the government is doing in how they portray the enemy, and that word is pseudospeciation.
It is much easier to do things like torture and kill children when it is done against something that is less than human.
It's ironic when right-wing bloviates talk about the despicable creatures in Iraq who launch attacks on US troops while "hiding" in civilian areas.
No one questions what our troops are doing in civilian areas killing them.
AC-130 gunships level buildings in urban areas from a nice safe distance. We use cluster bombs and fuel-air explosives in urban areas.
We feel terrible when soldiers die, but it's not un-American to say that we are waging a despicable war that works against our security and that it is being supported by idiots who buy into our government's lies.
May 20th, 2008 at 5:11pm
The creation of a class of enemies who deserved no rights whatsoever under Geneva or any human rights treaties (like UNCAT) has been a goal of some of the perpetrators of this for a long time. Douglas Feith wrote the opinion to President Reagan that resulted in the U.S. not ratifying 1977 Additional Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions precisely because he did not want the terrorist scourge du jour (the PLO) to have "legitimacy", i.e. rights under Geneva or the ability to accede to Geneva. He subsequently argues that they deserve no rights as an incentive to accede to Geneva, which he has effectively prohibited them from doing.
John Yoo and Jack Goldsmith were active since the 1990's chipping away at "customary international law", and others were making stinks about the cruel and unusual punishment clauses applying only to convicted criminals in the U.S., not to any prisoners prior to their appearances in a court.
So when September 11 hit, after the genius of the combined legal talents in the U.S. and Pakistan deciding to create prisoners without rights by calling them immigration violators awaiting deportation (at Kohat prison), these people were all ready with the "terrorists have no rights" junk. Goldsmith would later opine that civilians under the Fourth Geneva conventions could be deported to Black Sites as long as they hadn't been "accused" yet.
Get this type of lawyers out of our government and out of our academia and out of the private think tanks, or forget ever being able to enforce humanitarian rights ever again for anybody.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:02pm
"Enemies have been excluded from the realm of the rational, and necessarily terrorists must be irrational, else they would not be terrorists and would not be our enemies — no rational person could be our enemy, as the tautology would have it" -- a discouraging parallel here to the Soviet argument for administering mental health "care" to dissidents: a critic of the state suffers from anti-social tendencies, hence from a mental illness.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:23pm
I agree with you whole heartedly ondelette!
Feith, Yoo, and Goldsmith should all be behing bars rather than practicing behind the bar.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:57pm
I think many are missing one important fact. Those who torture and those who condone torture are sociopaths. These people have no sense of remorse of any kind. They live for themselves and if any one stands in their way, well, they are detained or tortured, or worse, executed. We are not surprised when a robber shoots and kills a bank teller for couple hundred dollars but some how we can not wrap our minds around the theft of the 3rd largest oil reserve in the world. Revenue from Iraq's oil is estimated in the trillions. Now do you see the picture? We are governed by sociopaths.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:43pm
Toture is putting up with the ACLU. Why don't you go after the Islamo-facists instead? Guess it's because they don't give a tinker's damn on any of this and would just as soon cut your throats as anyone's.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:04pm
Very well-written piece! Indeed, the current U.S. torture policies are based on lies: denying that it exists and justifying it on grounds that appeal to raw instincts, but do not stand to reason.
However, U.S. torture and U.S. clampdown on civil rights are the symptoms of a much bigger problem: the fact that the U.S. government, like virtually all governments, does not view public service as a high priority, but rather as a necessary evil, providing just enough of it to placate the people under its jurisdiction.
Sadly, by focusing on side-issues such as torture, privacy or sexuality, the ACLU misses this very real and central problem.
Would the ACLU care to get closer to the real problem while staying within its mandate? How about requiring, at long last, a criminal investigation into the 9/11 attacks, which provided a convenient pretext to undermine civil rights at home and human rights abroad, and their cover-up? It is an open secret that this will point to the U.S. government as the main author of 9/11. Once the U.S. government is publicly exposed as a powerful and vicious sponsor of terrorism, it may "discover" that its mission is not to threaten people and spread fear, but to serve people and spread love. Who knows? It may become the ACLU's best friend.
Dan Noel
May 20th, 2008 at 8:13pm
The Catholic Church knows Water Boarding quite well, as that was one of there favorite methods of torture doing the Spanish Inquisition, They should ask the Pope what he thought about it for the Catholic Church invented it. And now Bush a Born Again Christian? Activated it in the 21st Century, Isn't it time he be Impeached?
May 20th, 2008 at 8:49pm
Posting as 'has_te'
[not anonymous, at all]
There are several currently active malign operatives in the Oval Office's Axis of Evil who are are so 'less than human'
--I sometimes think--
that taking them to the lower levels of a basement, for a lo-ong time, doing some intensive interrogation might be a really splendid idea.
--I sometimes think--
So it was with a great deal of regret
that I gave up all those fantasies..for all the reasons you have outlined so beautifully...and a few of my own.
I put together a litany of 5 good reasons why I must not venture, [even mentally, mayhap?] onto that slippery slope -- but none are nearly so tightly argued as yourthesis outlined here.
Congratulations and thanks.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:55pm
Hannah Arendt, in her work, "The Origins of Totalitarianism," (1951) wrote that totalitarian movements and their leaders deliberately violate the values of the society in which they arise and seize power:
"...the propaganda of totalitarian movements which precede and accompany totalitarian regimes is invariably as frank as it is mendacious, and would-be totalitarian rulers usually start their careers by boasting of their past crimes and carefully outlining their future ones ... "(Arendt, p. 5 of "Totalitarianism")
Arendt then quotes Franz Borkenau's words from his 1940 work, "The Totalitarian Enemy:"
[The Nazis in Germany] "were convinced that evil-doing in our time has a morbid force of attraction."(p. 231)
Once a democratic society that is transforming into a totalitarian state succumbs to this attraction of lawlessness and crime, it becomes complicit in the further crimes of the regime. That is one of the goals of totalitarianism: to corrupt and debase a society so that it will at a minimum permit, if not condone, further crimes. Denial of civil rights and civil liberties, Imprisonment without access to legal counsel or trial, aggressive war against other nations absent any provocation, disregard of legislative, legal and judicial institutions, all these are steppingstones down the path to totalitarianism. Then, when these are reluctantly, but sufficiently, accepted by the society, a totalitarian regime institutes martial law, political purges, imprisonment and execution of dissidents. and wholesale ethnic purging and extermination.
Many Americans now believe that a change in the regime in Washington will correct America's course, allowing a 180-degree turn away from totalitarianism. They are wrong. Unless ALL the illegal and immoral acts of this regime are repudiated and repealed, and their perpetrators prosecuted and punished, we will continue down the totalitarian path. NONE of the presidential candidates likely to win the office have promised to do this. The Bush administration has accumulated vast power in the Executive Branch at the expense of the other two Branches, and that power will remain where it is barring decisive and far-reaching action by the next president. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely," as Lord Acton said. I think the current presidential candidates rather like the idea of being dictators, that is, if the current regime decides to relinquish power!
May 21st, 2008 at 12:22am
The callously practiced laws of torture and persecution by the Bush administration inside and outside the USA must be seen an instrument of fascism and Nazism. Every member of a civilized community would, without any let and confusion, reject and condemn the application of such barbaric activities and would positively espouse the cause of ACLU in lodging its protest against such transgression of humanity.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:47am
One of the most important things to understand about the authorized use of torture by agents of the United States government is how it has been justified by the lie that 9/11 was caused by these "enemies". If there were a real criminal investigation of what actually happened on 9/11, most fingers would point to the current occupants of the White House.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:53am
Excellent article. Justifying torture is an excercise in mental masturbation that really DOES cause blindness.
May 21st, 2008 at 10:29am
At one time before 1948, the immigrant Jews were the terrorists as they attempted to establish their nation. The Palestinians didn't want to loose their nation either. Yet today, they are deemed terroists and Irael is considered an allied country of the US. It's all prespective, not reality that makes humans murder humans for resources, and the more distant the better, since murdering a brother or sister is immoral.
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:20am
Apparently Hamas is now Hummus. They've been advised by a top fashion designer to get a complete makeover.
Brighton Man
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:24pm
It's just a question of finding the "right" "torture". LSD might work nicely, in ways you cant imagine: deprogramming. It would take a few weeks or a month. Any desired info will only be "given" when the prisoner cant remember his "reason"--being that it has been "dissolved"- to withhold it. Works every time. Try it.
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EMC and Safety Testing Seminar
After the amazing success of our 2014 seminars we are really excited to announce our EMC and Safety Testing Seminar, the first one for 2015! We would love you to join us on Friday 27th March. The event will have a full range of sessions covering CE Marking, LVD, EMC, Safety and Radio.


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More German Wirehaired Pointer Puppies and Dogs for sale.
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GWP Puppies - Field Proven and Top VHDF Evaluated Parents - German Wirehaired Pointers in Spokane, Washington - Ruby Rocks Kennel
Whelped: 4/2/2013
Ruby ( Jana v.den drei Teufeln ) is the Dam and Doc ( Fogarty Windwalker's Ace ) is the Sire.
Ruby ( Jana v.den drei Teufeln ) is the Dam. She is a well balanced versatile hunting dog. She successfully hunts chukar, quail, pheasant, huns, grouse, ducks and geese and will hunt from sun up until sun down. Yet, even with this high level of desire, she is very calm when it is required of her. Most evenings are spent in the house where she is an exceptional citizen and a great member of the family.
Ruby's testing has been completed within the VHDF program and her scores have been exceptional. She has received numerous extra points for 'exceptional work'. The VHDF program is a 10 point system with 2 additional points available for 'exceptional work'.
Ruby has whelped two previous litters with exceptional results. Some of her offspring are now in the Three Devils Kennels' breeding program.
Doc has a very strong blood line including the famous Salty Pete V Rahnhaus. Both parents are active wild bird hunters and have impressive VHDF testing results of their own. The breeding meets all Preferred Breeding Requirements of the German Wirehair Alliance. Give us a call or visit our site to find testing results of the parents and offspring.
We came across Doc at a Versatile Hunting Dog Federation Test (VHDF) where we met him and his owner Kurt Kraft. Doc ran an impressive AHAE test and scored 174 points earning 11's in search and pointing. Doc scored 10's in the rest of the ability subjects including the search behind the duck where he made an impressive blind water search and long track over open water.
Doc comes from Shelby, Montana where he and Kurt spend most of their fall chasing Huns and Sharptail on the Montana Highline. Doc is super friendly around kids and pets and he a has a very biddable temperament for such a hard driving field dog. Doc comes from a long line of Three Devils dogs including the famous Salty Pete V Rahnhaus in his pedigree as well as many other National Champions and Dual Champions. In addition to being a conformation Champion, Doc has placed in many National Bird Dog Challenges, as well as being a state and national finals qualifier. Doc's hips are rated Good by OFA and his thyroid has been cleared as normal. Doc is a listed stud dog with the German Wirehair Alliance.
Ad location: Spokane, Washington
Ad created: Mar 04, 2013
Contact Information
Contact Name: Richard Nugen
360-909-9860Contact breeder through email Click here to visit website
Ruby Rocks Kennel Breeder Information


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TMZ managed to get their slimy hands this quite awesome piece of video depicting yet another Chris Christie blow-up. While he was strolling Seaside Heights boardwalk, a passerby apparently took issue with
World Heavy Weight Champion Chris Christie's vote to expand New Jersey's funding of charter schools, telling the governor, "… just take care of teachers."
The results are par for the course, but let us use this video as an important reminder to never get in a shouting match while brandishing an ice cream cone, as it tends to deflate any leverage you may have in the matter.
Related Posts:
New Jersey "Map" Goes Viral
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President Obama to Visit Jersey Shore
Barbara Walters to Chris Christie: "You Are a Little Overweight..."


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Vol. 46, Back From Blind
"With Captain General Yamamoto giving him an opening, Ichigo goes in for the finishing strike against Aizen! But Ichigo will need the help of some new reinforcements if he hopes to defeat both Aizen and Ichimaru Gin!" --Publisher's web site.
Publisher: San Francisco, Calif. : Viz Media, [2012]
Characteristics: 190 p. :,chiefly ill. ;,20 cm
Additional Contributors:
Alternate Title: Back from blind
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Progressive Revolution In Politics & Political Science
Posted August 24, 2005
A Counterrevolutionary Work
This volume comprises eleven essays by academic political scientists assessing the effect of the Progressive movement on their discipline and field of study. The essays are all, or virtually all, expanded versions of papers presented during the centenary convention of the American Political Science Association in late 2003. There are two sections of five essays each: the first dealing with the Progressive attack on the founding principles of the American regime and the second dealing with the effect of Progressive ¿reforms¿ in practice. The central, and by far the longest, essay, by Edward Erler, concerns the Progressive transformation of American constitutional law, and that essay acts as a kind of hinge connecting the two main sections of the book. Probably the most important essays are the keynote essays of each section, written by Thomas West and John Marini, respectively. West, whose published writings include both esoteric commentaries on ancient political philosophy and also sharp contemporary political analysis, finds the roots of the Progressive revolution in the philosophy of Rousseau and Hegel, which is antithetical to the natural rights tradition at the heart of American constitutional government. Marini, perhaps the most astute observer of the transformation of the American political system wrought by the Progressives, concentrates on the Progressives¿ substitution of the administrative state for the politics of self-government. Each of the eleven essays is worthy of note in its own right, and all are redolent of serious research and profound reflection. Because the unifying theme of the volume is a critique of the Progressive ¿revolution¿ in political science, particular mention should probably be made of Larry Peterman¿s concluding essay, which leads the reader back beyond even the political science that informed the American founding, to the founding of political science itself, by Aristotle. This volume, described by its publisher as a ¿counterrevolutionary work,¿ must be regarded as indispensable reading for anyone who would understand the transformation of the American regime and as the starting point for recovery of an older (and better) political science. One last note: the careful reader is cautioned not to overlook the endnotes.Was this review helpful? Yes NoThank you for your feedback. Report this reviewThank you, this review has been flagged.


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Teresa Edwards replaces Peter Vidmar
Updated: June 28, 2011, 6:52 PM ETAssociated Press
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- Four-time Olympic gold medal basketball player Teresa Edwards will serve as the U.S. Olympic Committee's chief of mission for the 2012 Games, taking a spot vacated by Peter Vidmar.
Edwards will be the liaison officer for the American team in its dealings with the International Olympic Committee and local organizers.
It is largely an honorary spot, one that originally went to Vidmar, the gymnast who won two gold medals at the 1984 Olympics.
But ...
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No. 1 Ellsworth takes first loss of season, SV still unbeaten
Ellsworth HIgh School's baseball team was handed its first loss of the season Saturday 8-6 to St. Paul Highland Park at Brown Field in Hager City.
That leaves Spring Valley the only undefeated left in Pierce County as the Cardinals won a pair of games in Shell Lake Saturday.
EHS led Highland Park 5-0 after two innings but the Highlanders scored four runs in the fourth inning and two more in the fifth and six to take the lead.


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Deviant Art
TrichotillomaniaI'm a nice person but when i went to the phsychologist to get a med prescribed for my depression due to trichotillomania i was more than pissed off when he compared my ugres to pull to the urges to bit finger nails. I cried later when I got home because thats all i've heard for my whole life how i can stop it if i really wanted to ....how its like biting my finger nails..and that i only do it because its a pesky habit. NO!!!!!! its sooo much more than that. It is a disease. A murderous DISEASE! I wish to have my hair back more than anything so I can have an ounce of beauty back...but i can't control my robotic hands. I lay in my bed and cower as they pull strands of hair violently from my head. I know what i'm doing when i pull..I know what i'm destroying and it kills me but I can't stop...When I feel calm enough the urge disapears and I'm left with bald patches.....a girl with baldpatches? its sick....Does anyone know how hard it will be for me to find a man who will look past the facMore Like This
SnowTitle: SnowMore Like This
Fandom: FFVII CC
Pairing(s): None – Zack
Rating: PG
Warning: sadness
Word count:
Summary: just a drabble
It rarely snowed in Midgar.
Zack stood on the roof of the SOLDIER 1st Class' apartment building, watching the fat flakes drift down through the Mako tinted night. Every crystal glittered and glowed in the green spill from the nearby Mako reactors like jewels carelessly strewn through the bitter cold night.
He opened his gloved hand and let the flakes settle on his palm, watching them flare for a moment, before dying a wet death and dripping to the floor. Tears of ice, falling instead of his own.
Lifting his cold face to the cloudy sky, for a moment there was no snow, only a flurry of soft, silvery feathers, kissing his reddened cheeks. And then the emptiness and the ice returned, settling deep in his heart, where only warmth and joy had been before.
The snow continued to fall, unnoticed.
|Sta.sh Submit


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Gay conspiracy theory surfaces in Senegalese media
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Reader comments
Good God why can't these backward African countries grow up?It always amazes me that Africans, the first to demand "apologies" for slavery are also at the front of the queue when dishing out prejudice of their own!
Roberto, long time no see. These neanderthals are all the biproduct of learned behaviour, centuries of brainwashing by various religious denominations. Don't forget, it was we British too who left that awful legacy of criminalising sexual orientation in many parts of our former colonies and commonwealth countries, though you would think they'd have joined the 21st century by now. There's only one among all of them on that continent that has, South Africa, in fact gone a lot further than we have. Theirs is the only written constitution that protects sexual orientation, a first among nations of the civilised world and of course, LGBT people have full equality.
Hi "ex-pat", been to Gran Canaria then a family visit in the UK so not been about much since mid January.On the African question and homophobic legacy left behind since colonial times. that's always an excuse they like to trot out.It always seems funny how they can quickly change their laws relating to how long they stay in office, as with Mugabe et al, but seem to be paralysed when dealing with "rights"?I think that Africans are naturally prejudiced with or without colonialisation – just look at Kenya!
Roberto, wellcome back…you're probably right about the Africans, nothing has changed, probably never will. Thank goodness we have South Africa, a shining example of democracy and equality.
If one looks at statistics that punish for homosexuality (not capital Punishment that is the domain of The Arab Nations) one would see that Africa has the worst history of abuse against Homosexuality.It is little wonder that such things and injustices occur, but occur they do and largely go unreported.People forget that last than a century ago, it was them themselves that were persecuted for the colour of their skins.It is disgusting and again an issue that should be dealt with by the UN and the rest of the civilised world.
[…] 25th February 2008 – PinkNews […]
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text: For the past 3 weeks I have been experiencing several symptoms that seem alarming to me, such as stress/depression, bloating, pelvic pain, gas, constipation, increased weight around just my waist, pain during sex, low back pain, and changes with my menstration ( bleeding off schedual). I had my first period last month after giving birth and it lasted 5 days. Then One week later I started spotting quite a bit. Enought to wear a liner but not enough for a tampon. And now today I have found a small painfull lump in my breast, close to my nipple. Is any of this normal after 11 since child birth??


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Mankind Pharma
|R C Juneja
|Okhla Delhi, India
Key people
|Rajeev Juneja,Arjun Juneja,Sheetal Arora,P.K.Arora,Ajay Bansal
|Pharmaceuticals, Generic drugs, OTC, FMCG, Diagnostics
|US$382 million (2011-12)
Number of employees
|Discovery, Lifestar, Lifestar 2, Special, Vet, Future, Magnet
Mankind Pharma is a pharmaceutical company in India based at New Delhi. The company has products in therapeutic areas ranging from antibiotic and antifungal compounds, to gastrointestinal, cardiovascular, dermal, and erectile dysfunction medications. It is the seventh-largest drug maker of India.[1] Also it is No.1 Company of India as per Prescription/Doctor/Month audit of IMS-Health, 2012.[2]
Mankind Pharma was founded in 1995 by two brothers, R C Juneja and Rajeev Juneja. The seed capital for establishing the company was 50 Lakh.[3] The company was started with 20 employees and launched in two states in the 1st year of its operation.[4]
Mankind's product spectrum encompasses Pharma as well as OTC (over the counter) & FMCG products. Few of its brands in OTC segment in India are Manforce condoms, Preganews, Unwanted 72, 'Don't worry', Adiction deodorant and Kustody deodorant.[5]
The company acquired Magnet Labs Pvt. Ltd. to enter the antipsychotic segment in the year 2007.[6] Also it acquired Longifene-an appetite stimulant for children, in January 2010 which was earlier a brand of UCB Belgium.[7]
Business operation[edit]
The company has different marketing divisions & a company operating under its umbrella to expand its business operation in India namely Discovery, Future, Special, Vet, & Lifestar. Mankind has also entered the global arena by starting its operation in Srilanka, Vietnam, Philippines, Nepal & Rwanda.[8]
Mankind has state-of-the-art manufacturing units at Paonta Sahib (Himachal Pradesh), built as per the USFDA guidelines. The company also has four major distribution offices in India located at Indore, Secundrabad Ghaziabad, & Meerut. The company has its own training & development center to train the sales workforce. Mankind has also established its Research & Development center in the year 2011.
The company has won accolades like Indian Express Pharma Pulse award for "Overall performance" in 2005 and "The Emerging Company of the Year" award at Pharma Excellence Award in 2007, "The India Business Icon (Pharma)" award by Network 18 for the year 2011, "Entrepreneur of the Year" by Ernst & Young in 2011.[9]
The company's CSR wing "Care Mankind" supports various NGOs covering different spheres of social welfare like education, healthcare, environment, elderly care, women empowerment etc. The company organizes BMD camps on regular basis throughout India to make the society aware about the mineral deficiency in bones as per weight and height.
- ^ Sushmi Dey (2012-07-19). "Mankind Pharma set to tap core drugs market". Business Standard. Retrieved 2013-02-05.
- ^ Mankind Pharma champions the cause of Women Hygiene- September 30,2014
- ^ Mankind Pharma: Formulating Strategy To Enter The Big League 8th May,2014
- ^ "A Giant Leap For Mankind". Business Outlook India. 2011-12-24. Retrieved 2013-02-05.
- ^ How Ramesh Juneja's Mankind Pharma has changed pharma game with pulp marketing- June 13,2012
- ^ Acquisition of Magnet Labs
- ^ Mankind Pharma markets Longifene- August 29,2011
- ^ A Giant Leap For Mankind -December 24,2011
- ^ [1]


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The custom buildout for Saison's kitchen and dining room came in at a cool $2,800,000. Firewood and Charcoal - $700/Week Almond, fruit, and smoking woods--plus high-end binchotan charcoal--keep the custom hearth, wood oven, and smoker blazing. Flowers - $800/Week Natalie Bowen Designs provides custom arrangements. Overhead - $24,000/Month Rent, occupancy costs, and utilities make up a substantial chunk of Saison's operating budget.
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text:
World's Largest Christmas Tree Puts Yours to Shame [VIDEO]
The small town of Gubbio, Italy is home to the largest Christmas tree in the world!
The small town of Gubbio, Italy is home to the largest Christmas tree in the world!
Begins at Mamou High School, runs through business district on 6th St. and ends back at the school. Parade to feature visiting queens, marching bands, cajun music bands, and Santa Clause pulled by Egrets – the official bird of Cajun Country
An airline pulls a very special holiday surprise on its passengers using the help of modern technology and some good old fashioned Christmas magic. This video will make you smile. It actually made me tear up just a little. Perhaps there is still a little bit of good left in the world and not all corporations are consumed with the almighty dollar
Tis the season to be jolly, merry, and satisfied with good eats! I think we can all agree that the best holiday parties we have been to, are the ones where the host or hostess took the time to cook yummy dishes for their guests. I recently had a little dirty Santa Christmas party for the girls, and my hot crab dip was a hit.
At 19 years old, Lauren Alaina may be too old to believe in Santa, but that doesn't stop her from making a Christmas list -- in the form of her new holiday single, 'My Grown Up Christmas List.'
There will be parachuting Santas, Crafts, Singing, Bands, Mass on Main Street, Candy Stations, Fais Do Do, Lighting of the tree, etc.
Christmas is a time for joyous giving and families coming together and singing and eggnog. But we all know that on some level it's all about the presents.
The 20th annual Oil Center Festival of Light will be held tonight from 5pm -10pm in Lafayette. Lots of fun for the whole family!
Maitland DeLand, M.D., a radiation oncologist specializing in the treatment of women's and children's cancer, will be signing copies of her popular children's book series, "Baby Santa." In Dr
Come and join us for the official lighting of the Scott Christmas tree and a visit/photo op with Santa Claus. This is the perfect event to put you in the Christmas spirit and enjoy great entertainment


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Deliberate stomping
There always seems to be a problem in those older buildings. Everyone raves about hardwood floors, but the noise level is atrocious. The people above me, one of who is the landlord, stomp in boots all the time. It's like they are getting into the stomping. It sounds like the ceiling should cave in. I should not have to move to a concrete buidling. How can you find out if a building has soundproofed hardwood floors, of is it possible?
I think the thing to do is the next time you're considering an apartment, insist on being able to do a stomp test--bring along a trusted friend to do the stomping while you listen.
I honestly don't think most people deliberately stomp uness they're already locked in some sort of nasty, nasty feud.
Do the people above you have people above THEM? They may have no idea how loud they sound.
My friend had this problem. She moved into the ground floor apt. and found her neighbor had a strange habit of jogging in his apt upstairs. She finally got the courage to introduce herself and discovered that he had a dog. When he got home at 11pm, he was spending quality time with his dog by tossing a tennis ball. The dog was getting his evening work out. Once she explained her dillema, he agreed to take the dog outside for a walk instead once he knew how badly the noise transferred downstairs.
Best thing to do is talk to your neighbor. Usually people are unaware of how sound travels. Ask him if he wouldn't mind trying the "sock hop" method and kick off the boots.
Also ... landlords take these complaints with a grain of salt. I had a second-floor tenant who regularly complained to me about the noise made by the third-floor tenant (me). I got a couple of complaints a week.
That tenant didn't know I worked nights and slept days, my husband's ship was out, and there was NO way anyone could have been stomping around at 10AM because the cats and I were snoring in my bedroom (which was not even over her apartment). Her most frequent complaints involved noise over her bedroom, which was not under my living area at all. To stomp there, I would have to crawl in the attic with a hammer.
That said ... two cats playing tag on a hardwood floor can sound like an earthquake to anyone underneath.
I will say it is true that some people walk heavily, perhaps because they enjoy the evidence of their own existence. It doesn't make them evil, just human. And if they're approached NICELY, they'll be more likely to try to change something.
I think it's easy to put up w/ something for a long time until one is kinda fuming, and then it's hard to keep the contempt out of the conversation. Best to speak up BEFORE the contempt enters, and to not get one's mind all wrapped up in generalizations.
I agree that it may not be deliberate stomping. We lived downstairs on hardwood and our renter lived upstars. One day when she was in our space she watched our kids playing with some toy vehicles on the floor. She was shocked at how small the toys were, she had expected them to be huge ride on wagons from the way they sounded upstairs! You may be just as noisy to them, I would ask.
Talk to your neighbor and explain your dilemma. Wood floors really transmit noise in strange ways!
How long have you lived in this place? You may find that you eventually get used to the "stomping". I moved into a new apartment in January - with hardwood floors in every room in the building. I would get so frustrated with the kid upstairs running constantly (or what my brain in its annoyed state preceived as constantly). I was so excited when those people moved out...only to discover that the stomping continued! Turns out it was the kid on the 3rd floor. Amazing that the sound traveled that far down, but it did.
Anyway, my point was I got used to the running. Yes I still hear it and still notice it at least half of the time. However, it no longer bothers me.
That being said, maybe you could talk to your neighbor and explain about the noise. Ask if maybe they could walk without their shoes on after a certain time at night - say 10pm. You may still hear noise as some people do just naturally stomp, but maybe it won't be quite as loud! I'm lucky with my "kid stomping". He goes to sleep early (but of course he wakes up early on weekends...UGH!).
Is moving possible? My last apartment had horribly thin floors. The upstairs neighbors were not deliberately stomping, but it drove me nuts that I could hear everything they said or did (and i do mean everything...) and that I could not have peace and quiet in my own place if they were home. They weren't violating any lease provisions or laws, and they were really nice people. But the fact was that staying in that apartment meant dealing with the noise, so I moved as soon as the lease was up (actually got the landlord to let me end the lease a couple months early).
Anyway, it doesn't sound like there's anything you can do to stop it, so I'd exit the situation if at all possible.
ok so here is my opinion.
I am a heavy sitter. I plop. Hard enough to move furniture back. My father use to go crazy...now my husband tells me stop plopping down so hard.
I walk hard too. I just kinda got a gestapo walk inside the house. Why? I hate shoes....I wear light weight sandles...mocks or socks or barefoot...so there is no way my boots/tennis shoes are making noise...aint got any! But I walk loud. I recall my father in the basement and he would yell stop stomping...stop running. No one was. We thought he was nuts a bit. Fastforward 15-20 years later. I am in the basement doing laundry...I yell stop jumping to my kids....now they think I am nuts. Dad was right the smallest bit of sound amplifies through the floors.
So from a stomper to you non-stompers...sorry can't help it.
But if the people down stairs said your driving me crazy..stop, I would. And that my friends is why I live in a condo with no one above or below. Once a stomper always...
diydana, you're very right; some people's habits of walking just sound loud. And some floors aren't very helpful in terms of cutting the noise.
That was the crux of SAG1's first question--how can you tell ahead of time whether the floors are helpful in noise control?
Hmmm, flushing the toilet incessantly?
per the dictionary, incessant means: continuing or following without interruption.
They're really flushing the toilet all the time? Or even every 5 minutes, you think they stop living their lives and run into the bathroom to flush the toilet just so they can annoy you?
This is the sort of whining that made me exasperated w/ this forum in the old days. Every thing a loud neighbor did was treated as a personal attack; people get all p.o.'d before they even communicate w/ their upstairs neighbors.
And their posts here are so full of venom and contempt that I worry they'll be unable to hide that contempt when they finally DO speak to their neighbor--and what neighbor is going to take you seriously or look on your cause positively when they can sense that venom & contempt?
Sure, there are jerks in the world--but there are also people who are simply thoughtless. And only if you have NEVER accidentally gotten in someone's way are you allowed to be scathing about people who don't know they're disturbing you.
well now that is the joy of America... freedom of speech.
The good the bad the ugly...can't get enough!
This forum has proven its self to be interesting.
Go home site.... go home site....go....
Hey I have a question.... look for a fresh post topic called Goodwill/ Salvation army.
Well, dydana, of course you can walk like a human instead of a fish, you just like to be bad.
SAG1, I once had an upstairs neighbor who seemed to do rapid in-place jogging in the bedroom everyday just when I was trying to sleep. I knew he was an undercover narcotics officer(what a sleazoid he looked like), but I was usually too tired and ill to go up to talk to him.
One day, on one of my good days, as I was going up to his apartment, I saw him walking across the plaza. The noise from his apartment was his labrador, wagging his tail on the bedroom floor, since he knew it was time for his "best friend" to come home.
So...You never know, do you?
Besides, when I was an intern, I lived across the street from the hospital. You would think you would never get used to the ambulance sirens going all night. It took about two weeks.
I live on the second floor. I take off my shoes when I enter my apartment. I try to be courteous..but I have had my neighbor bring her 10 year old daughter over and the girl is heavy-footed. It is not by size or weight because this 70 lb. 10-year-old could out stomp out anyone bigger and it is not intentional. She is just a stomper. I have heard where cats running around on the top floor disturb people and you would never think it, but apparently it does. What are they 15 lbs? Go figure.
I understand completely about the stomping. My upstairs neighbor is fortunately very quietI hear her cats more than I hear her (and I have cats myself and their running around upstairs does not bother me). However, she does have one friend who comes over quite a lot and it sounds as if he walks around in big, heavy boots all the time. ThatÂs annoying. The guy before her was much worseÂno carpet on the wood floors, stomping all the time. However, after I talked to him a few times with no result, I told the landlord, who offered him the choice of removing his shoes or buying rugs to deaden the noise somewhat. Not sure what the guy did, but the noise was reduced enough so that I could live with it.
WhatÂs puzzling me about SAG1Âs story is that the noisemakers include her landlord. Now, finding a new tenant to rent an apartment takes time and money, advertising and showing the place and checking up on the new tenant. Why the landlord would 1) not try to make some effort to reduce the noise and 2) start making more noise with the toilet is beyond me. You would think that he would want to keep the apartment rented, as most likely he is using the rent for at least part of his mortgage payment. Perhaps he feels that since this is his home, he shouldnÂt have to alter his life in any way. What he is forgetting is that this is also your home, even if you are renting and he owns the place.
Perhaps the landlord doesnÂt realize just how noisy it is in the lower apartment. Is there any way you can have him come into your apartment when whoever else that lives upstairs is walking around?
Of course, the other alternative is to start exploring how to break the lease. If the landlord isnÂt willing to deal with the noise issue, I wonder what he will be like with other problems. You may have to pay to break the lease, but it will allow you to move to a quieter place, and show the landlord that he is the reason the apartment below his is difficult to rent.
Hope you find peace and quiet soon.
Hi I found this page by doing a metasearch through Google on "Why some people walk heavy footed." Which lead me to this page. I read everyone's follow-up post and can be a little more at ease just reading what some of you had to say. Thanks.
My problem is similar but ironically it's the people below me that are trouble. The reasons I moved to this current apartment in West Los Angeles was (A) Across the street from the motion pictures studio that I work for - no sitting in SoCal Freeway traffic.(My sports coupe stays clean and ready for weekend adventures) (B)It's an upstairs apartment (2 stories no one above me) (learned from the past what is extremely important to me - that is NEVER live underneath someone.)
Okay so how could the people below me be a problem??? Sounds WEIRD right? Well as many of you mentioned sound travel is a funny thing. Also as much pre-investigating before leasing was great advice but it's never enough. I'm excruciatingly anal. That's what makes me good at what I do. Asking questions is not always enough. Checking things out physically on your own without the prospective landlord or resident mgr peering over your shoulders is a good thing to do but some problems only get discovered after the fact.
So in my case what I found was that structurally the building's first floor was more hollow because the subterranean parking below was on solid ground and the apartments 1st and 2nd floors were sitting on a steel beam structure. (the floor centers are like striking the middle of a drum) The noise actually carries upward shakes my entertainment cabinet's glass and shakes my widescreen plasma HDTV mounted to the wall. All my previous questions were answered thanks to all of your answers to SAG1's original issue. Because my biggest question was:"Why does this idiot have to set his feet into the ground like he is wearing concrete blocks." I guess like you guys said - there are just people that walk heavily even if they're not big people.
So I tried "talking" with the people below and they just started doing it more frequently and seemingly on purpose therafter.
The man that is heavy footed isn't even on the lease yet he lives there with the woman that IS on the lease. (These are the kind of questions I've asked prior to moving in which one can only ascertain after it's too late.) Meaning I made sure that I was surrounded by professional single living people like myself. (no kids, noise etc...) Single not meaning relationship wise but live single bachelor type of lifestyles. I was verbally told so, so I moved in. So do I live with it? I don't make noise when I walk and I'm probably heavier than the individual who trudges his feet and digs them into the ground below. I made sure I moved in to the uppermost apartment but through this lame architectural masterpiece it didn't matter. Normally, through experience, and by what was ascertained through your follow-up posts: sound does not travel upwards in most structures.
Yes I could break the lease spend money and move. But would I have to (A) pull out my 40,000 dollar sports coupe just to burn fuel and sit in traffic? Or (B) roll out of bed jump on my skateboard and cross the street to be at work. Well call me stubborn I chose B. (plus riding my skateboard to work is much faster than driving into the studio) That is why I leased this place. When I feel cornered my brain goes into legal mode. As I said the guy was not even on the lease and he lived with the girl. Yet he wouldn't change by walking quieter knowing that real paying tenants are annoyed by the way he walks. So what happened? Talking to them didn't work - they did it more and on purpose after that. So I pointed out what the property managers already were looking into: The fact he was staying there violates one of the lease rules. So they got evicted. That's how I handled this one. Fairly and Justly. If the woman couldn't take responsibility for what she signed her name to - it was her responsibility to keep him in check since she is the legal person on the lease.
So my suggestion is: If you try and "nicely" speak to your neighbor(s) about the problem and they don't cooperate, start taking notes, read your lease aggreement, and you'll find something that someone is in violation of which will legally allow you to break the lease (here in California anyway) or in my case the property managers took action and alleviated my problem by evicting the problematic tenant and her rather permanent guest.
I have this exact problem - it is a nightmare. The people above me sound the circus troupe from hell. I can hear every step they take, I can hear the girlfriend speaking (she is LOUD), the people before this couple had a baby and the man had a booming voice, that was ten million times worse.
I have spoken to the new couple about this isse because when they first moved in he would have his TV sooooo loud. Turns out he had a surround sound system thingy (hellooooo!) Luckily he agreed to turn it off and I hardly ever hear the tv anymore. But the walking, UGH - it's a nightmare, you can never have peace and quiet.
What's most annoying is that the landlord told me should would do some soundproofing before this couple moved in. Well, turns out she just got them extra thick carpet padding, I've been upstairs, I've done experiments with them where I have cranked my TV and stereo to top volume and they can barely hear a baseline. Whereas I can hear their TV at a very low volume - and music - forget it. It might as well be in my apartment.
They are nice enough people and agreed to try and be considerate but of course over time people forget...the girlfriend loves to clomp about in her heels while getting ready for work still!
I feel for anyone who endures this type of noise. It's horrible and very distracting to those of us who enjoy the quiet life. Thankfully I hope to move in the Spring. I will NOT be moving into another groundfloor apartment that's for sure.
Just want to note that from my personal experience living in apartments & condos that being on the top floor doesn't necessarily assure you that you will not have any noise problems involving your neighbors below.
Only one time I lived below another apartment, and the funny thing is that I never had problems with noise or loud footsteps with that neighbor. Then I moved to a condo, and I was on the top floor of a 3-floor building. In this case I never heard my neighbors below. The next move was to an apartment where I was on the top floor, and I could hear EVERYTHING from my neighbors below...stomping, voices, loud TV, slamming kitchen cabinets, etc. And then I moved to the condo from Hell...I lived on the top floor and I could not stand living there because of the noisy neighbors below with the excessive stomping, slamming doors, loud voices, loud music & TV, parties, I could even hear their phone ringing. And when I asked in a friendly manner if they could walk quieter and not slam doors, they denied they made any noises at all and went so far as to say that the noises were coming from a store a half-mile up the road! LOL!!! Well, at last I'm in my own house, but I do have a nasty neighbor next door.
So my point is that being on a top floor does not mean that you will not have noise problems from the neighbors below you. In my case it was ironic because the one time I lived below someone, I never hear him, but when I lived on a top floor, the noise was unbearable.
So it basically comes down to the construction of the building and what kind of neighbors you have and how sensitive you are to noise (some people can block noises out and others can't).
Tally Sue,
SAG1 has many curious posts in various forums, and several have to do with stomping, oddly enough. She is quiet for a while then comes up with a new angle.
Not that stomping isn't a real problem for apartment or town home dwellers.
But her posts are entertaining to say the least. Here are a few good ones. If you're ever bored, you should look for SAG1 posts. She should write a book - if she and her family are for real, they'd be more interesting than the reality shows that are so hot right now.
Sister's Stepson, ahem, well at least he's not stomping
Niece's stepson's odd behavior this time
I think you meant this posting:
"RE: show me the money!!!!!!!!
Posted by: SAG1 (My Page) on Mon, Oct 6, 03 at 12:20
I bought my condo (a fixer upper, but still, I own it) 13 years ago. My mortgage is less than what some people pay for their cars (think $350 a month). In fact, a BMW costs more than my mortgage! I have a lake view, and the value of the place is now triple what I originally paid for it. The assessemnt is high, but included all utilities except the phone. The total cost is about $650.00 a month, and this for a place in the high rent district with a lake view. "
Oh well, maybe they are two different people.
Just as there is no reasonable expectation of privacy on the Internet, there is no way to be sure you will have absolute peace and quiet if you live in an apartment. We are on the third/top floor of our building, which is the only place I'd ever consider living here. No way do I want someone above me! But has already been pointed out, that's no guarantee of noise-free neighbors.
When we first moved into our 20's-era building, the guy next to us drove us crazy. His bedroom is adjacent to our kitchen, and he chose to put his headboard on the wall opposite our sink. He started complaining immediately and told us we shouldn't do anything in our kitchen--not even running the water--after 8 PM as he liked going to bed early. I will go to great lengths to accomodate neighbors, but thought this was unreasonable. After all, he could move his bed, get earplugs, etc--all of which we politely suggested. Said he didn't like earplugs and that wall was the only one that felt "right" for his headboard. We told him we'd keep it down after 10, but that sometimes due to our work schedule we'd have to be in the kitchen after 8. He was ticked, of course. I found out later he was a chronic complainer to the manager about everyone near him--the guy under him snored too loudly, the people across the hall should close their front door more quietly, etc.
Some people just should not live in apartments.
Several tenants have occupied the unit directly below ours in the eight years we've been here. Most have been considerate enough. However, one was a very scary person who started stalking me after I knocked on his door and very politely asked if he'd turn down his mega-sound system after 11:00 PM. The manager finally dealt with him, though, and thankfully Scary Dude moved out shortly thereafter. The guy who moved in after him blasted his stereo every day between 5:30 and 6:30. When I asked him about it, he told me had liked to work out to get his stress level down after putting in a hard day, and the music was background to the workout. Now that's understandable. We agreed together on his daily workout time, and that if he played his music too loudly at other times I was welcome to knock on his door, or at his suggestion, bang on my floor/his celing to get his attention, and he'd turn it down. He was as good as his word, and I hated to see him go three years later.
Now there's an old woman down there who gripes about our walking across the floor, even though we never wear shoes in the house, aren't tapdancing here, and have area rugs on top of the carpets. We smile at her in the foyer and when we see her at the mailbox, and try to be nice. We do the best we can. But apartment living is sometimes just not as private as some would like. That's just the way of it.
hi. here's our deal. we have hdwd floors, but have put 2 rugs in living space as well as 1 in bedroom (sml apt). the guys upstairs are really sweet but everyday and i mean EVERYDAY on the dot... guy #1 does jumping jacks. it sounds like the walls are coming down. guy #2 dumps tons of water on thier 3 plants, then the water dumps onto to our airconditioner (we finally put some towels ontop of the AC to tone down the sudden rainstorm that happens).
the guy in the studio next door is also a really nice guy (moved in just recently w/in the year- before him we had MAJOR problems with previous neighbor, who was insane- really) but he listens to 'adult' tapes constantly & show soundtracks turned up really loud. the walls are REALLY REALLY thin, as in, they certaintly aren't code. when he moved in, i made sure to introduce myself & Dh to him. he was v. sweet & we laughed about our choices in music & movies since i warned him we'll be hearing each other. i will put a holiday card under his door.
the landlords' family lives accross the hall... i have to say that they are a very nice family. very kind to us, cordial, nice about our dog (he tends to be cranky sometimes) but... they are loud & completely disrepctful in that slamming doors (shuttering whole apt), running in the hallwy kind of way.
the building next door to us (we see into each other's windows) are full of loud, scary, obnoxious people. music is played at increasingly high levels, shouting at all hrs of the night, etc, etc.
but i'm sure we are noisy to others... we have surroud sound w/ a subwoofer, dog who likes to play with his ball in the apt sometimes & barks at noises in the hallway. we have friends over sometimes that laugh loudly & often.
sometimes i cannot handle living in this apt. we have been in this one for about 4 years, we were in a studio a block away for 4 years. so it's a total of 8-9 yrs in this area. we just signed a 2 yr lease, and after that ...we're done. we will move to a less busy area. apt living is tough- i think owning tends to be a little bit better (we're renting) but RENTING AN APT especially in big cities is not fun. i think you sacriface alot for the lifestyle (i've lived in NYC for 12 yrs, my DH for about 14yrs.) we try to have a sense of humour about it, and we're in a great location & pay very reasonble rent considering but...
oh sigh.
good luck everyone. hang in there.
PS- if anyone is wondering where I CAME FROM... i came over from bldg a house forum thus, our user name. cheers!
Well, I've tried it all! I've spoken politely to my upstairs neighbors, I'm sent letters to the management office, I've left notes at their door, I've even left a pair of Isotoner slippers at their door (which a week later she left laying in the downstairs walkway). I then posted a note saying if anyone lost a pair of slippers that I had dropped them at the main office (just so they thought it wasn't me). The stomping stopped for about 2 days, but..its' back to the usual! Its a couple and a young boy of about 10 (I didn't think 3 people were allowed to live in a one bedroom apt. to begin with). When she's not home, there's no problem, but as soon as she hits the door, the "booms" start! Just for her to get out of bed, it takes a loud "BOOM" of her two feet to hit the floor above me! This sounds like she's running around putting out fires! Has anyone heard of "white noise" machines, and do they really work?? I work, she doesn't, and I'd like to sleep past 7am on a Saturday morning for a change !! At this point, I think it's just spiteful on her part, she knows she disturbs me and after I've spoken to them the stomping grew louder...help!
Hi SunRochy - Well, a 3rd floor apartment is roughly $300 more per month than the 1st floor. Besides, I have 3 cats and buy catlitter by 35 pound buckets, not good on the back when you have to climb 3 flights of stairs! I'm really at my witts end with her. What I try to do is play music on my computer, but I don't want to disturb anyone, I just want to block her out! The upstairs apts. are supposed to be 80% carpeted by the tenant that moves in..well, I'm assuming she's carpeted hers with papertowels! The 1st floor apts. are carpeted wall to wall on move in by the landlord. Why they don't carpet the above floors is crazy! I don't know what to do, or who to ask for help anymore..is there some type of temporary ceiling padding I can install, atleast in my bedroom, to get some peace?? Does anyone know, will seeking legal action help?
I don't think you can sue someone for the way they walk. At least I hope you can't.
However when I was in an apartment I also had noisy upstairs neighbors. My solution was a simple box fan. It got turned on when I went to bed at the "medium" setting and turned off when I woke up. For most people its not "noise" that keeps you awake its sudden unexpected noise. So the constant humm of the fan won't keep you up and should help drown out your upstairs neighbor's walking habits.
This worked for me, on the occasions when my neighbors were extra noisy at 4am I turned the fan up to high and went back to sleep.
At this point I've gotten so used to the "white noise" created by that fan I can't sleep without it on. I have no idea of "white noise" machines work but a good box fan is ALOT cheaper and does the same thing.
Well..Now I'm the big "complainer"! I've received a certified letter that I will now be evicted because I have cats. This is the only ploy they can use to evict me, but from what I've heard, the mgmt. office is sick and tired of hearing me complain. They moved the upstairs tenants to another apt, and that tenant went down to the office "crying & shaking" and told them she felt I would try to hurt her child! I never threatened anyone! Nor would I hurt anyone! No, I'm not allowed pets in this complex, but I do know there are at least 400 tenants that live here that have cats. But, after speaking with them, they will allow me to move to a 3rd floor apt., no mention of my cats. I don't know if they'll follow thru with their promise to evict me if I don't get rid of my cats by 1/10/05, but if so I will hire a tenant attorney and find out why I'm being evicted because of my cats and the other tenants are not. I am now looking to buy a condo. My lease is up in July and if I can stay until I find my new home, all will be fine.
I slept with a white noise machine for 30 years. My 1st husband worked nites & needed it to drown out noise. It finnally wore out. I am alone now & just found where I could order one. Matter of fact I just ordered it & should recieve it by the weekend.. I can hadly wait. My old machine was well traveled. it went on the plane everywhere I went.
I live in a moble home right now so have a tin roof. One of my crazy cats like to get on the roof at nite.. it sounds worse than a man stomping. I will be moving to an apt soon & the cats will stay here on the farm with my neighbor. They would never adjust to being penned up in a small apt. After reading these post I'm sure glad I am getting another white noise machine. The one in the link (what I ordered) looks just like what I had for 30 years except for the switch. If it last 30 years it sure will out live me LOL
The fan thing really does work. I have an oscalating fan (the round fan that can turn) with a remote control, so I don't even have to get out the bed to turn it off. I use it faithfully during the spring and summer months. Too bad I can't use it during the fall and winter. The fans really drown out your neighbors and I just love the peaceful sound it makes.
Lexum ! I had 3 cats when I got divorced, and am not willing to part with them! Besides, if you read what I wrote, you would see that at least 75% of the people that live here own some type of animal, its inevitable and is prevalent in every apartment complex! Think!!
Anyway, after I wrote my letter to them explaining that I wanted proof that they are evicting everyone who has a pet so I may forward to my attorney, I never heard a word from them. I have now received a lease renewal for end July. Since they've know I have them and have been accepting my rent check, there's nothing they can do except renew. I've new tenants now, and have had to talk to them a few times regarding noise, they have tried to keep the 'stomping' to a minimum. Thanks all !!
We live one floor above our renters in a 1912 brownstone in Brooklyn. It's a two family building. Over the past few months they have chronically complained about what I now see is *stomping* on our part. Last night, we had a big argument with them about it for the first time. To wit, we're fed up with their complaining, and they think we aren't doing anything about it. They have another 7 months or so on their lease. The wife is pregnant.
There are two reasons why it might seem loud down in their place. The primary one is that our living room is an uncovered hardwood floor, about 30+ feet long, and 18 feet wide. It's a gorgeous original brownstone parquet floor, and we are loathe to cover it. This is complicated by the tenant husband & wife's having decided to sleep in their own living room, which is directly below ours. They rent a one bedroom apartment, but their two year old sleeps in the actual bedroom. Our prior tenants had no child, and slept in the bedroom -- and were not the chronic complaining type.
More minor points: my wife has a heavy pace, and is 7 months pregnant. Our four year old will race across the floor when not told beforehand to walk softly. Our babysitter/nanny may need to be told to tiptoe. I am frequently up very early, and stay up late a lot.
The living room is a large space, clearly. And I think the most typical stomp scenario is when one of us crosses it diagonally, from the stairs to the upper floors (at one corner) to the front door (on the other). As I tried to explain to the tenant husband last night, short of putting in wall-to-wall carpeting, I don't see how the living room can be soundproofed with a rug. We can put a small piece below the last stair, where it hits the living room floor. We can also put another piece by the front door entrance to the room, or a runner. We might put a 8 x 10 or 5 x 7 in a cozy corner (out of the main traffic route). But I think more is probably to be gained by wearing slippers. Any recommended brands? Are socks (someone mentioned "sock hop" here) better than slippers? It certainly is cold enough to wear slippers on this coast now!
I awoke this morning with the idea of conducting an experiment with them -- having one of us walk in slippers across the floor, and listening from below. If the sound is sufficiently muffled, then at least we wouldn't feel such a burden to pursue the rug option.
The woman who lives above me likes to stomp in her heels late at night, which I'm pretty sure that she's doing deliberately because you hear her walking with her heels into the room (now the room up there has a carpet so it should cushion the step a least some) Yet the stomping of her heels becomes louder as she walks over my bedroom. The great thing about this wonderful thoughtful considerate person is that she then claims to be sleeping and denies her actions. And when she sees me in the hallways, she gives me dirty looks. I don't understand how can people especially grown adults behave in that manner. When you come to think about it deliberate stomping is something that a child would do if they are upset. I guess some people just never grow up.


text:
Gemma Beauchamp
What it means to me Poem by Gemma Beauchamp
What it means to me,
Is that you don't know who you are.
What it means to me,
Is that you don't know what to do about yourself.
You think it is funny to hurt someone,
Like you understand their feelings?
You think you are all superior,
When you criticize people?
Then you don't really understand the meaning of life,
What you don't really understand is YOURSELF!
Take a step bake and look at yourself,
What do you see?
A coward who doesn't know the true meanings of life?
A person who has done anything they could think?
Don't go around thinking that you are a bully!
Think that there is a meaning of life in your footsteps.
You think that every footprints leads to something new?
Well you are correct, it does lead to something new.
Change your perspective of life,
Because the way you are going it will end you to nowhere.
What does it mean to you to bully someone?
Makes you feel like you are accomplishing something in life?
Well no matter where you go your actions will reflect badly on you.
Like if you want a job? Your anger won't help you get a job.
It will make you going into jail or worse death.
Don't you want to change?
Of course you want to change!
Bullying is no way to go.
Gemma Beauchamp's Other Poems
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text:
Now available: Exchange 2013 Inside Out: Mailbox and High Availability
Buy your copy of Microsoft Exchange 2010 Inside Out
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Top Posts
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text:
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