text:
good to see that Discomb has overcome the invasion by France, well done.
good to see that Discomb has overcome the invasion by France, well done.
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My ink well thingy...
grayghost: You'll see what's next for the Soviet juggernaut tomorrow
4th Dimension: That's an idea, they have some oil...
coz1: Tsk tsk, this is going to be a gentleman's war!
ColossusCrusher: Yep.
General Jac: Yup, France is doomed. And you'll see where I'm going next tomorrow
4th Dimension: You've been paying a lot of attention! Have a PanzAARcookie!
rcduggan: Yep, he did well. Though by his own admission during the game, it was only one cavalry division wreaking all the havoc by rushing toward Berlin, taking a scenic detour through Prague
Comment day again, next update tomorrow!
Nice to see Britain abandon its 'splendid isolation' and join the glory hounds in pursuit of an empire. It must be tough to be stripped of all but the home island though. That has got to be a much different game than the standard Britain...
Yankee Clerk
Free Trade
Full Citizenship
TheExecuter: I would think so, yes. Less IC, less MP, no rebasing elsewhere in the world...poor British
Update coming up!
5 kilometers east of Petrozavodsk
September 5, 1936
Vasilevskij stared at his pocket watch, silently counting down the minutes. It was less than five minutes to 0200 in the morning, and he and the other men in the room had been assured that the declaration of war would be handed precisely at 0200. Vasilevskij bit his lip, his eyes glued to the lethargic hands of his pocket watch. He felt rather than saw a presence behind his shoulder, and spoke. Yes, Georgij?
How much longer, Alesandr?
Three minutes only, Georgij.
Georgij Zhukov sighed before growling out, I want to begin this campaign.
As do I, Georgij. They are supposed to be good soldiers, it will be interesting to fight them. Not to mention, this is the joint operation yet to be undertaken. Granted, three Fronts fought in Estonia but it was Estonia, theres no comparison to what well soon be facing even if their performance is disappointing. Both Fronts are ready. We merely wait for the politicians now.
Any response Zhukov would have made was cut off by a blaring announcement from the radio in the room. Attention! Attention! This is Tukhachevskij! I have just received word from Litvinov that it is done! We are now at war with Finland! Commence operations!
In the early morning of September 5, 1936, the Soviet Union declared war on Finland.
Immediately there was a rush as orders darted back and forth and subordinates scrambled to bring word to the frontline units to advance. Out of the chaos Vasilevskij and Zhukov stormed toward the radiomen, eager to absorb news from all over the front. Tapping the shoulder of the man who seemed to be in charge of disseminating reports, Vasilevskij shouted into his ear over the cacophony surrounding them. Have units made contact yet?
The man shook his head. What?
Contact, has there been any contact?
Contact? Yes, Frolov is reporting contact.
Frolov? Hes part of the Murmansk Front!
Theres fighting on the approaches to Kajaani!
Frolov was fighting toward Kajaani.
Thanking the man by clapping his shoulder, Vasilevskij and Zhukov pushed through the swirling throng back to the map room. Reaching it at last, they conferred with the only other general standing over it, Egorov A.I. He turned toward them. Well, what news?
Apparently theres already fighting at the approaches to Kajaani.
Egorov nodded. Frolov, Murmansk Front. 45th Rifle Corps. Unfortunately their formations, like everyones, are under strength. I understand that Gorodovikov is throwing all his units in Kandalskaya and Kem toward Kajaani. He himself is fighting off a Finnish thrust toward Murmansk, the fighting seems to be pretty heavy there as the enemy is employing three divisions and an anti-aircraft brigade in a direct fire role, but Gorodovikov seems confident that hell be able to stop the Finns from advancing too far.
The battle for Murmansk and other operations in the Murmansk Fronts theater of operations.
Vasilevskij nodded as Zhukov spoke up. But what about here, down in the south?
Egorov snorted. I know you both are looking for the path of glory, you wont find much of it here. The Finns wont be a challenge for us. They wont simply roll over and die, but you will not find your epic battles here. Dont look at me like that; I know what Im talking about. He had noticed Zhukov glaring at him. But yes, to answer your question, we are in battle at Sortavala as well. You will get your deep battle.
Vasilevskij smiled. Good. How is the battle going?
Were fighting some of the best Finland can throw at us, commanded by their most skillful general. Nevertheless, we will soon achieve a rupture in their lines and then your armor will be penetrating through. You know the plan from there. On to Mikkeli, then take Helsinki. Isolate Viipuri. You will be the anvil, Eidman will be the hammer and crush those fortresses. From there, the only remaining objective will be Vaasa. I trust you two can accomplish this.
The battle for Sortavala and an overview of the Leningrad Fronts theater of operations.
Zhukov appeared affronted by the question. Of course! You can count on meus. He had caught Vasilevskijs hard look. Finland will fall quickly, just give us our breakthrough, old man.
Egorov chuckled. Old I might be, compared to you, but I am also wiser. Dont be too reckless. I remember one war game played, years ago. It was a hypothetic situation where the United Kingdom had occupied northern Europe, Germany western and southern Europe and split eastern Europe with the Soviet Union. Now that I think about it, it seems frighteningly similar to our evolving geopolitical situation now, in fact. Nevertheless, the war game was on a hypothetical invasion of Finland to dislodge, encircle and destroy the large British forces opposite our front along the line Leningrad-Volkov-Vytegra-Molotovsk.
Vasilevskij nodded, picturing the strategic situation in his mind, as Egorov continued. We massed two mechanized armies at Volkov and broke through the British defenses at Petrozavodsk, for they had quickly conquered all of this territory save for a fortress we had thrown up at Murmansk, after very heavy fighting. We made for the Baltic, and managed to encircle the British at in a pocket stretching from Viipuri to Sortavala. But the British broke out, and out spearhead forces became besieged themselves, though fortunately we had had the foresight to supply them for an offensive. Thus, they remained in supply as we attempted to salvage the situation desperately, and ended up battering through those fortifications at Viipuri that Eidman will eventually presumably be fighting through as well. We saved our valuable spearheads and even threw a backhand counterstroke at the British; in the end we destroyed a third of their entire army and had pushed the rest into a fortress at Segezha.
Zhukov blinked. Fascinating but what does this have to do, well, anything?
Egorov chuckled again. Oh, nothing. I thought that it was an interesting war game, that is all. If youre curious, we eventually won. We destroyed the German army in a series of encirclements ranging from Latvia to Bulgaria to Czechoslovakia, and eventually destroyed another third of the British army at Segezha. Their remaining third evacuated. Murmansk never fell, Im proud to say. That was my idea, you know, fortifying it. It proved to be a real thorn in their side. We reached Berlin. I wonder if youll do that one day, reaching Berlin. Somehow, I doubt it.
Finland is going to fall too... What 's next? Hmmm, let me think...
I bet is Norway.
From now on we say that the Greeks fight like heroes and the heroes like Greeks...
Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill (1940).
I see there is a lot of rivalry between your generals.
It seems to me like Finland will be a walk-over.
What happens when you listen to AOK.11's flawed arguments instead of using logic and thinking for yourself?
AAR's: Argentina - Nación Argentina II The CooperatAAR (completed)
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- Napoleon Bonaparte
Kingben Say the Darndest Things! - General Jac
Oh, I don't know. You are getting lots of exercise at conquering. The appetite will soon be strong.
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Mythos1978: We'll see
General Jac: Yep, just a bit of rivalry. As for Finland being a walk over, it would depend what you compare it to...
coz1: Yep, but the need for a decent, organized army even stronger
Comment day again, next update tomorrow!
Well, I would normally say don't get overconfident against the Finns, but I don't think you will make the same mistakes...will you?
Current AAR's: The Manchurian Candidate...on hold.
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"Gold does not always get you good soldiers, but good soldiers can always get you gold." Machiavelli
grayghost: Nah
Update coming up!
5 kilometers southwest of Mikkeli
September 12, 1936
Vasilevskij paced back and forth, feeling a strong desire simply to scream. He was frustrated, and was boiling over with nervous energy. It was only a few hours to midnight, a week into the invasion of Finland, but already the Finnish will to fight had been predominantly broken. This is what frustrated him, Finland would now be the showcase of his skill that he wished it to be, as Egorov as indeed predicted. Vasilevskij pressed his lips into a thin line, glaring out the window southwestward toward Helsinki. Any sensible person would have thought that the Finns would defend their capital stoutly, but it did not seem that way to Vasilevskij; the fighting was heavier northward, around Petsamo.
In the north, Gorodovikov had stymied the Finnish attack toward Murmansk and, having occupied Kajaani, had thrust heavily toward the valuable mines near Petsamo. The Finnish general, Martin-Wetzer, had a reputation as a defensive genius, though his tactics were perhaps a bit outdated. Vasilevskij took a deep breath as he considered the action in the north, wishing he was there. Gorodovikov had placed nine divisions opposite the Finns three divisions, five at Murmansk and four at Kajaani. Vasilevskij imagined that the fighting was quite fierce, as reports to Egorovs headquarters, copies of which Vasilevskij had a staff member abscond with, had indicated the Finns were dug in fairly well in the hills.
The battle for Petsamo, which was Vasilevskij so envious of.
Growling under his breath so that Zhukov, who had just entered the room, would not hear, Vasilevskij turned to greet him. Zhukov was smiling, indicating that there was fighting occurring somewhere closer than Petsamo. Vasilevskij looked expectantly at him, waiting for a hint. However, Zhukov merely smiled even broader at Vasilevskij, causing an hardening in Vasilevskijs gaze and turning it into a glare. Taking a deep breath and biting his lip, Vasilevskij gave in. All right, Georgij, you win this time. Tell me, what news has graced your ears?
Zhukovs grin took on a triumphant tone before he answered. There is fighting in the outskirts of Helsinki, my good Alesandr. We are opposed by that defensive prodigy, Hanell.
Vasilevskijs face nearly melted into a smile but it froze halfway. Hanell? But he is only a major general! Were only opposed by one division, what kind of defense is that? We have six divisions pushing toward Helsinki, four of them armored!
Zhukov put up his hands, as much to symbolically defend himself as to sooth Vasilevskij. I know, I know. Nevertheless, even this is better than nothing. Just as well, I suppose, as the Finns around Viipuri are making a move to escape their trap, we need to get to Helsinki quickly.
The battle for Helsinki, though Vasilevskij would likely call it a mere skirmish rather than a full battle.
Vasilevskij sighed. I suppose. Viipuri should be a good fight, yes?
Zhukov nodded. Presumably, the Finns have five divisions there. Remember the operational plans, though.
Vasilevskij stared at Zhukov in exasperation, his eyes wide with a strange feeling that was tinged with horror. I dont get to take part, do I?
Zhukov smirked at him. No, you do not. From Helsinki youre to race beyond to the last important Finnish town, Turku. With the fall of Turku, and given that presumably by then Viipuri and Petsamo would have fallen, Finland would be in no position to resist an annexation.
Vasilevskij let out a grunt and Zhukov knew he was not convinced. Listen, Alesandr. Im sure youll face resistance on the way to Pori, the Finns are not going to give up that easily. Besides, Im sure that the assault on Viipuri will be a bloody affair more in line with the Great War than anything else. The Finns are quite well entrenched there, you know.
Vasilevskij glared at Zhukov again before growling. Youre not helping. You know that, dont you?
Zhukov smiled cutely at him. Yes. Suddenly, he released a bellowing laugh and grabbed at his sides. Poor, poor Alesandr, not fighting at Viipuri. You conquered Latvia and Estonia virtually single-handedly and nearly got Lithuania as well. I need to catch up. There will be plenty of other opportunities to distinguish ourselves as well.
So why dont you go ahead to Pori and let me fight the Finns at Viipuri, then, given how sanguine you are about future opportunities?
Zhukov laughed again, enjoying taunting Vasilevskij. Operational orders, thats why. You dont want a reputation for being insubordinate, do you?
Vasilevskij shot a pained look at Zhukov. Please, Georgij. Its not insubordination, it is initiative.
Zhukov merely laughed harder. Not this time, my friend. Anyway, I shall be leaving you now, to go back toward the front. I want to confer with my divisional commanders. Given that your corps is also participating in the attack, you might want to as well, yeah?
Smirking again, Zhukov sauntered out of the room and left Vasilevskij staring agape at the closing door. Taking a deep breath and straightening himself, Vasilevskij adopted a stern expression and with only a single backward glance toward the map of Petsamo he had acquired, he too strode out the door.
I almost feel sorry for Vasilevskij. All the poor guy wanted was a real fight to showcase his talents and all the guy gets is skirmishes. Although it was funny to watch Zhukov pour salt on the wounds.
Current AAR's: The Manchurian Candidate...on hold.
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"Gold does not always get you good soldiers, but good soldiers can always get you gold." Machiavelli
Not enough war to go around, eh? I have a feeling that in time, your generals won't have tooo much of this problem.
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grayghost: Yep, no mercy for Vasilevskij
coz1: Too true, too true
Comment day again!
Mine. My precoious!Originally Posted by Myth
I finaly have a sig
In my cookie jar
Krofta Kookie! | PanzAARcookie! | Uniting Russia's Russian double-chip Peter Wrangel's chocolate cookie | Got 10 in Timelines
To place foot upon tyrany's neck,
to lead tyrants to knowledge of the right,
this is the most sacred of man's duties!
Bishop Danilo - The Mountain Wreath
Zhukov seems pretty arrogant.
What happens when you listen to AOK.11's flawed arguments instead of using logic and thinking for yourself?
AAR's: Argentina - Nación Argentina II The CooperatAAR (completed)
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
- Winston Churchill
"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes... Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."
- Napoleon Bonaparte
Kingben Say the Darndest Things! - General Jac
4th Dimension: Awesome
General Jac: Just a bit, yeah
Update coming up!
September 18, 1936
Vasilevskij sighed as he listened to Egorovs announcement over the headquarters radio. Egorovs words resounded with triumph, and were full of praise for the Soviet army. Nevertheless, Vasilevskij felt downcast. He had missed the largest single battle of the war and thus had given up the limelight to Zhukov, or so he felt. He knew deep in his mind that this was irrational, the Zhukov had not actually accomplished that much and that it was he, Vasilevskij, who had forced the Finnish situation into its desperate straits. He had missed that battle, however. All he could do was pore over his tactical maps and reports and imagine fighting the battle himself.
Looking down at the map, he was already constructing the scenario in his mind. The location was Viipuri and the time, the morning of September 14, 1936. The Finns had five infantry divisions and two anti-aircraft artillery brigades, likely used in a ground-attack role, under command of Lieutenant General Heinrichs, a man who knew the Karelian winter like the back of his hand. Additionally, his forces were ensconced in the so-called Mannerheim Line. Against this formidable showing, the Leningrad Front under Egorov and the 2nd Tank Army under Zhukov fielded a total of fourteen divisions, including two armored and three motorized rifle divisions.
Vasilevskij sighed and closed his eyes, replaying the battle. The Finns had been surrounded, though an avenue of escape existed at Mikkeli as there were no Soviet units along that long stretch of front. The Finns were attacked from three directions; Field Marshal Eidmanis commanded five divisions attacking northward out of Leningrad, Egorov commanded six divisions attacking southwestward from Sortavala and Zhukovs 2nd Tank Army comprised the third prong of assault. The attack had launched at 1000 and had taken a full twenty-four hours for the converging Soviet thrusts to meet up. The Finns had resisted desperately every step of the way, but in the end had no hope of defeating the great mass of men and material before them. With the fall of Viipuri, the greatest concentration of Finnish troops had been shattered beyond redemption.
The battle fir Viipuri at 2100 on the night of the 14th, surrounded and out of supply the Finns were still resisting.
Vasilevskij frowned, as if missing such a battle was not enough, Zhukov gained another chance at glory when the Finns retreating from Sortavala withdrew into Mikkeli. They had been under the command of the preeminent Finnish officer, Field Marshal Mannerheim. At Mikkeli he fielded a headquarters formation, an infantry division and an additional artillery brigade. For a few hours, the situation had been difficult as Zhukovs formations, as well as Vasilevskijs own, were isolated in and around Helsinki. However, Eidmanis had soon restored the link, but through Viipuri, and Vasilevskij had reached Turku an hour afterwards. Undaunted, Zhukov launched his attack that afternoon and quickly made impressive progress against the Finns best general. However, Zhukovs armor had bogged down in the forest and moonless night, and he only succeeded in dislodging Mannerheims defenders after the sunrise the following morning.
Zhukovs battle for Mikkeli.
By that point, it was a waiting game. The Soviets had to hold on to the territory they had won until Gorodovikov could reach Petsamo, the final vital piece of Finnish territory yet unoccupied. Two days later, early in the morning on the 18th, Gorodovikovs vanguard marched into Petsamo. Soon afterward, the annexation of Finland was announced and the remnants of the Finnish armed forces were officially disbanded. It felt like a hollow victory to Vasilevskij, though Egorovs announcement was amounting to a glorious paean for the triumphant Soviet forces. With a sigh, Vasilevskij stood up and leaned forward enough to reach the radio, which he then turned off. He did not want to hear any more of brave Soviet soldiers, of vicious fighting in the hills around Petsamo or the bunkered forests of Viipuri.
Finlands official annexation, at 0500 in the morning on the 18th of September, 1936.
Vasilevskij sagged back into his chair, dispirited by the lack of action his units had seen, despite an hour long battle at Turku during the battle for Viipuri. Additionally, as he had ambitions to becoming the Soviet chief of staff eventually, he had attempted to keep up with the militaristic events elsewhere as well and had followed the Middle Eastern campaigns in detail, and the German offensives whenever possible as well. However, being a lowly and relatively unimportant Lieutenant General, he did not know the future. He wondered what territory the Soviet Union would claim next.
Good grief Mr. Myth you're growing quite rapidly . Finland is under the Soviet boot XD ; I wonder if Discomb or his brother can check your scandinavian expansion .
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text:
Senior Member
How do you guys build this character? I just started playing her, and I really like stacking all the AP\attack speed items. Stinger and guinsoos are good. I like getting stark's fervor. Wit's end seems great, since you're stacking attack speed. This will end up being worth more than 42 dps from the proc alone, because you hit more than once a second.
If the game goes really long, trinity force is a great item.
Nashor's, Guinsoo's, Zealx2, Infinity Edge. And attack speed boots.
Warmog armor, Boots of mobility, Atma impaler, Frozen mallet... and another thing what you need
Berserker Greaves
Rod of ages
Nasher's Tooth
Rylai's Scepter (game usually over about here)
Banshee Veil
Guinsoo's Rageblade
Tanky yet good Ability power and damage
I play the balls out of Kayle right now and I build as a supportive tank. I have a very specific early-mid game build that I have tested and tweaked over about 20+ games as Kayle since the recent buff patch.
Skills - Max Q and W first grabbing a single level of E (ranged) at around 4-8 for that extra ranged power. Ult at 6, 11, 16.
Here is my very tested, very thought over, theory-crafted item build in order.
1: Mana Manipulator - because you can heal yourself and this gives great synergy with a mate
2: Meki Pendant - again, you can heal yourself so this really ups your harassment
3: Boots - obvious
4: Farie Charm - more mana regen - because spamming Q takes a ton of mana.
5: Amp. Tome - to make....
6: Fiendish Codex - -CD, Mana regen and the early boost to AP makes reckoning a monster (creep kills, harass, killer - 300+ dmg nuke on a 6 sec CD)
7: Ruby
8: Cloth Armor
9: Heart of Gold - You are not a farmer so having a nice HP item that gives 5gp10 is awesome. I very rarely end up selling it with my item build
10: Boots of choice - Tabi for DPSers, Mercury for magic and snare - Berserkers works too. No need for more speed - your Blessing will give you 420+ speed with lvl 2 boots.
10: Giant belt - to make...
11: Soul Shroud - Great aura for you and team - -CD is amazing on Kayle (27 sec Intervention CD!) and its a great tank item (3000ish HP at this point)
12: Finish Stinger - that is why you bought F. Charm and also to make....
13: Nashtor's tooth - now you COULD make this before Soul Shroud, but I like to be more tanky and Nashtor doesn't give a ton of stats for combining (you could keep Stinger and Codex separate if you want for most of the game)
Also - you are now at max CD! 4.68 sec Reckoning (4 sec duration), 15 sec Fury (10 sec duration) and 27 sec CD on intervention at 16.... oh yeah... hardcore support
Now things get more situational
Personal favorite - Aegis of the Legion - because you are supportive in nature this works really well - it also makes your heal better than simply HP stacking. The dmg is just a treat.
Rylai's scepter - More HP than AoL and wayyyy more dmg than anything else but the slow is kinda "meh" as you only get to use it with Reckoning. The AP is a monster on your heal, nuke and on your Fury dmg. It is also more expensive than Aegis.
Warmog's - Welcome to 4000+ Hp - you are pretty much unkillable with any of these items, but this one makes you a juggernaut - problem is that it does nothing else and doesnt support. But boy can you soak dmg.
Other items to consider - Sheen (because you spam spells), Malady or Wit's End (to improve your Fury attack speed and dmg. Phage make you ever tankier and is rather useful. Atma's is also good but expensive - better with Rylai and Warmog - very hard to get all that done.
Most games end before I can get the final item unless we did Baron Nashtor or kept up on killing Dragon. As I said - you are not a farmer so money will be a bit of a problem.
Also a thing of note - Razor procs. do not splash with righteous fury... obviously that would rock too hard.
Junior Member
Not a farmer? With -CD, and a few levels, she can clear waves of creeps with Fury.
I generally build Nashors and Boots first, then go on to Guisnoo's. Zeal is fantastic (as mentioned above) but I really like using Lich Bane on her (Fury + Hit + Reckoning + Hit). If you build her with AP, attack speed, and -cd, she can be very dangerous late game.
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subset: commoncrawl


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But it wasn't long before the region's timberlands became viewed as a valuable resource for the new country. Today, Vermont is home to a vibrant wood products industry that has much to offer the visitor, with many statewide showcases including the 11th annual Vermont Fine Furniture Woodworking & Forest Festival taking place at the end of September in Woodstock, Vermont.
Products from Vermont's forests are admired and sold around the world. Timber cut from Vermont's forests is crafted into everything from baseball bats and toys, to furniture and musical instruments. Popsicle sticks and golf tees started as a birch tree growing in the rugged Northeast Kingdom; and cutting boards and salad bowls began as maple trees found high on the slopes of the Green Mountains. Wood from Vermont is also used to make the nation's homes - framing, clapboards, flooring, architectural millwork, kitchen cabinets, and log cabins.
These items are the product of more than 12,000 Vermont woodworkers and craftsmen - mostly working in small family-owned firms.
Wood Product Travel Tips
1. Workshops and factories. Many shops have special observation areas where you can watch beautiful and unique wood products taking shape right before your eyes.
Popular stops include:
2. Forests and Mills. You can see lumber operations in action or watch the raw timber transformed into beautiful art. Visit a working forest at the Merck Forest and Farmland Center in Rupert. Tour one of the largest sawmills in the state - Mill River Lumber in North Clarendon, 802-775-0032.
3. Showrooms and Studios. Browse the showrooms and studios of individual craftspeople like Robert Gasperetti, www.gasperetti.com, custom furniture maker, at work in his studio in Danby or order a new set of cabinets at the Knight Kitchens, www.knightkitchens.com, factory showroom near Rutland. Or you can shop for ready-made furniture at the Pompanoosuc Mills, www.pompy.com, headquarters in East Thetford or their factory store on Church Street Marketplace in Burlington.


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Hi: 9° Lo:5°
By Dan Santy Thursday 13 December 2012 Updated: 03/01 08:50
A HUGE influx of Polish nationals has seen Rugby's population rocket faster than anywhere else in Warwickshire.
Census figures just released show Rugby's population is the fastest growing in the county having shot up by over 14 per cent from 87,453 to 100,075 in a decade - more than double the national increase.
Among the population are nearly 16,000 people of non-British origin, a huge jump from the 7,700 at the last census in 2001.
The biggest increase is found in the number of 'other whites' which has risen by almost 4,000 in the last decade, while people of African origin have gone from under 100 to just over 1,000.
Reflecting the national trend most of Rugby's white immigrants since 2001 are from Poland, with African, Asian and Middle Eastern migrants also accounting for much of the borough's population born outside the UK.
Rugby's thriving Polish community has seen recent cultural changes. There are now Polish shops and a doctor's surgery in the town, and this year Rugby Theatre even staged an Anglo-Polish production of Romeo & Juliet.
In total there are now almost 12,000 people born outside the UK living in Rugby, 6,500 of whom arrived in the last decade.
The census also revealed that in the last ten years the number of young people from the borough going to university has risen sharply, with 22,735 people now holding the equivalent of a degree qualification against 12,627 in 2001.
Of the 72,759 people in Rugby classed as 'economically active' - 49,018 are in work, 2,613 are unemployed and 1,826 are in full-time education.
Since same-sex partnerships were legalised by the government back in 2005, just 138 civil partnerships have been registered throughout the borough.
And people seem to be losing faith with 24,281 declaring themselves as having no religion in comparison to 12,040 residents a decade ago, although nearly two thirds of the population - 63,791 - still consider themselves Christian.
Difficulties in securing mortgages are reflected in the rise in people in private rented accommodation from almost 2,100 to over 5,200.
The average age of people living in the district is 41 - two years higher than the UK national average.
And women still marginally outweigh men in the district with 50,191 against 49,884 men.
1 Rugby man with kilos of cannabis not a dealer
2 Three-lorry M6 crash kills driver
3 M&S, Burton head to bigger out-of-town stores
4 Rugby gyratory barriers return amid safety fears
5 Free school bid sparks concern from Rugby candidate
ENGINEERING enthusiasts gathered to mark the 175th anniversary
POLICE have named the man found dead on
TRADERS in the town have reported a steady
REPEATED misuse of a recycling centre at Rugby's
COVENTRY is to bid to smash the world record for ...
THE WIFE of Birmingham City FC goalkeeper Colin Doyle is ...
POLICE are looking to speak to this man in connection ...
WITH the 'Winds of Winter' blowing, Redwings Horse Sanctuary near ...


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Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by patsinthesnow, Jul 27, 2013.
Has Brandon Meriweather clattered into some unsuspecting player yet?
It doesn't sound too good for Pitta though from the little info that has been released so far.
No. But Ihedigbo is the guy that collided with Pitta
Dislocated hip for Pitta. Ruled out for week 1, and probably more.
Man a dislocated hip sounds painful as hell.
What specifically was Rosie Colvin's hip issue? Took forever and was never the same guy.
Will Pita change his name to Pith?
Jeff Howe @jeffphowe
Former OL at CU with Nate Solder RT @MaryKayCabot: #browns injured player Ryan miller taken to Cleveland clinic main campus.
That sucks about Maclin he had a break out year last year. I thought he would have made a perfect Deion Branch circa 2003-4 in this offense.
Weird, I guess I just assumed that that type of injury would be a season-ended, eve this early on.
The mighty 49ers have now lost prized WR Michael Crabtree for the year and maybe for his career with a torn Achille's tendon. Aging #2 Aquain Boldin must now become the #1, but then who plays #2? Meanwhile Frank Gore defies the antique image in his 10th season as lead RB. Incidently they have equaled the number of injuries that they suffered during all of the 2012 season.
The Sea Chickins have lost Percy Harvin for the year with a torn labrum.
The Ravens lost Aquain Boldin, Ed Reed, Ken Kruger to FA and Ray Lewis to retirement. Subtract 5 star players.
The Texans still have prize RB Arien Foster on PUP with a bad leg, and have no other prominent RBs.
The Jets lost a CB to a knee, and haven't yet signed their First round replacement of traded Daryl Revis. Santonio Holmes doesn't think he will be able to play this season with a bad wheel.
The Pats lost their #2 TE to a cell block. Woe is us...
The Broncos lost Elvis Dumeril to the Ravens because of a FO screwup. They are losng Von miller fro a 1/4 of the season, 4 games, due to repeated recreational drug use.w
The Ravens are now just 3 Probowlers down when they signed Elvis Dumervil.
The Pats are still one #2 TE down when they lost Aperp to a jail cell. Woe is us...
Our 1# TE is also rehabbing and we don't know when he's going to return to form. Brady's top target has been replaced with someone who we aren't sure can start 16 games. And Edelperson can't stay on the field. However, I do agree that we aren't the only team that has been decimated by the injury bug/off season.
The Patriots lost 5 of their top 6 receivers.....
And with gronk, amendola, Edelman, Ballard, Dobson and another wr or 2 that can easily be replicated.
Ravens' Pitta in surgery now
And, once again, the attempt to change the argument is made.
How did I attempt to change it? Take 2007 for example, switched it up, and you got the best offense in league history. You can loose guys from the PAST and be just as good or better with new guys.
The poster I was responding to was listing personnel lost in the offseason, by various ways. He was not listing replacements, which is what you tried to do. Evem a cursory read should have made that clear to you.
Well, we get to see how elite Flacco is without both Bolden and Pitta, now.
Pitta out for the year per Schefter.
Separate names with a comma.


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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by danny88, Mar 26, 2007.
Just heard it on the sports flash
Here's the good news, in technicolour, from Mike Reiss:
On the news front, running back Laurence Maroney underwent shoulder surgery after the AFC Championship Game. That Maroney underwent surgery was first reported by the Boston Herald, and has been confirmed. Maroney will naturally be limited in the team's offseason program, but the injury isn't expected to threaten his 2007 season.
Classy of Reiss, by the way, to attribute the story to a good scoop from John Tomase.
It will be great if he is 100% at the start of the season. Maybe this explains why he tapered off at the end of last season.
Since the other Maroney injury thread has turned into a pissing contest about draft picks and injuries, I guess it's better to put this here. A poster on Indy Star (a resident Pat's troll who seems to have sources on player info) posted this about Maroney's injury on a thread there:
tomase is making a big deal about nothing, moroney will be fine
Great news, absolutely.
But may I say this made me grin a little, remembering that just yesterday in a thread about Reiss I wrote:
"There does seem to be a trend of Reiss suddenly appearing with an extremely detailed inside view on a topic the team typically doesn't want to talk about...3 hours after the story is broken by somebody else."
Mike isn't in the habit of breaking news about injuries, even though he always knows the score. That's his MO, for better or worse. Personally, I'm glad to have both a Tomase playing "bad cop" and Reiss playing "good cop."
Mike Reiss has the best Patriots source in the business: Bill Belichick. I'll bet money that the minute this story broke, he went to the "SOURCE" to confirm it and get more detail.
Regardless, I am worried about the production at the RB position. But, let's hope he comes back 100% and kicks some butt next season.
According to Patriots Insiders, the Pats have set up a private workout with Chris Henry and they appear to be VERY interested in him.
See, this is what I'm talking about, PatsChick, when I complain of the unjust praise Reiss tends to get around here.
This guy acts like Tomase and his editors would possibly have not bothered to contact the Patriots' FO and BB himself to comment on the report. Does he think the Herald doesn't have BB's number? Do you think they just didn't think to ask him?
Basically, it works like this: Tomase gets the scoop, reports it out. In the process, he contacts the Patriots, and sees if they will confirm his information, and even add to it. The Pats stonewall; they're waiting to see what Tomase actually knows, what he has solid enough info to print, and what he's just bluffing about. There's no advantage for them to comment until after they see what Tomase actually feels he can run with. They read Tomase's article in the paper, spend a few hours trying to find out how much else is out there, and then confirm how much of it is true -- to Reiss, knowing that he will politely print their vague statement "but the injury isn't expected to threaten his 2007 season" without pushing further with questions, the most important being "if you know enough about the injury to not expect it to threaten his '07 season, why don't you tell us?"
It's funny -- we wouldn't have heard a thing about this deal if Tomase hadn't come out with it, and yet Reiss gets praised for simply receiving confirmation that the Pats' FO should really have given Tomase from the start.
Good, he's a rock. I made a thread about him in the draft section with links to four different scouting reports.
I hope he's better behaved than the other Chris Henry.
woo hoo..................
IN WHAT WAY DID TOMASE "make a big deal about nothing?" Can we please have some standard of equilibrium here, not to mention a sense of irony. He just reported the story. It seems like YOU guys are the ones overreacting.
The herald sucks
I agree. The only ones who were making a big deal out of it were people here and to some extent PFT but they make a big deal out of eveything.
They needed another RB anyway regardless of the Maroney injury. They lose Pass and Dillion and only pick up Morris. This Henry guy is an athlete for an RB with a lot of tread left as he played slightly but was good when he did.
There is no way the Pats let Dillion walk IMO is Maroney looks like a PUP casualty. So that says quite a bit.
Morris is a 30 year old ST guy who will catch some passes and can run the ball 6 to 8 times a game to give Maroney a breather. In this age of a two back system, He is not the answer but a compliment. I think Henry is a bigger back than both but with break away speed actually faster than Maroney. A faster Dillion perhaps.
DW Toys
Any chance Dillon comes back?? He's still available, no?
PUP? They just said he would be fine for the season.
Separate names with a comma.


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What Free Staters are and aren't
Tuesday, January 15, 2013
The two anonymous editorials that Foster's has printed in the last week regarding the Free State Project reflect a lack of understanding that I've found only in the most closed minded individuals, left or right, here in New Hampshire.
Fosters' missed the real reason for sending Chase flowers: her attack, as in martial arts, only served to increase the very movement she opposes. The flowers' card showed there were no hard feelings to the woman who moved from Rhode Island in 2006 herself. Chase sits next to Rep. Laura Jones, a Free Stater, who is one of the sweetest and most principled people in the House. Chase could take a few political lessons from Jones. The roughly dozen Free Staters, in 2011-2012, and in 2013-2014, aren't influential of 400 Reps because of co-option, but because they make sound arguments and understand economics and liberty. They advocate for personal responsibility, small government, local control, and freedom. These are hardly radical concepts, but sadly, too often forgotten. Ask the most vocal opponents of the FSP, and even they will begrudgingly admit that Free Staters have been very effective, above average legislators who work hard, do their homework, and argue persuasively.
We're all Free Staters now.


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|Regions:Dover/Somersworth -Great Bay - Rochester - Southern Maine
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Exeter Hospital seeks order keeping lawsuit materials private
Wednesday, March 6, 2013
BRENTWOOD — Exeter Hospital is asking a judge to prevent lawyers representing victims of the hepatitis C outbreak from sharing information they receive from the hospital with the public.
The hospital is facing litigation from as many as 26 of the 32 patients linked with the hepatitis C outbreak. David Kwiatkowski, a former hospital employee, was arrested last year and accused of spreading the disease to the infected patients in the course of abusing hospital drugs. He denies the charges.
The hospital argues that exposing the names of employees through the disclosure to the public of discovery materials would lead to increased anxiety and fear among employees.
In an August 2012 article, McGrath was quoted saying that it is "shocking how careless it appears that Exeter Hospital was, and that maybe other hospitals were."
The hospital's actions demonstrate that it is "determined to prevent public disclosure of the facts that led to this public health crisis and that it will do whatever is necessary to fulfill that goal," according to the attorneys.


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Ranking semi-custom kitchen cabinets
I am wondering whether anyone would be willing to share their ideas re. mid-range semi custom cabinets. My husband and I are at a place in the decision making process where we are not even sure what is considered to be mid-range anymore. We did a major renovation and remodel a few years ago when we lived in the midwest, and our cabinets were Plain and Fancy. We considered that to be upper middle. Gorgeous!!!
We've since survived corporate downsizing ('adjusting to scale' was the term they used, lol!) and are settling into life here in the northeast. However, none of the kitchen designers seem able to actually tell us whether their cabinets are somewhere in the middle of mid-range. I did see a list of cabinet rankings here on GW, but it is outdated. I am curious to know whether anyone has experience with any of these cabinets:
Wellborn Forest
We're trying to stay beneath the Plain and Fancy priceline, but at the same time, it's difficult to assess where these other cabinets rank in terms of overall quality, including all wood construction, minimal add-on fees for soft glide close, stain, etc. and overall appearance. Both of the KD's we have seen seem to be pushing cabinets we are not so keen on: Showplace, KraftMaid, Narrow River, as well as Wellborn Forest and Woodland. We are willing to pay for quality, but I think they are being pressured to promote whatever is 'on sale' right now. Hence, they are really waving the flags for Showplace, Wellborn Forest and Woodland. We'd love to be wrong about this ... any input is gratefully accepted!
I've just joined this site and have found an incredible amount of info on this subject too, thank you to everyone who's contributed! Like pianist, I'd like more thoughts on costs/value/quality of different cabinet lines. We are building a small addition and replacing very inadequate kitchen in our 1927 Foursquare house. I've been dealing with KD recommended by a friend and she's done a good plan for us using Brookhaven cherry cabs. My husband is shocked by the price: 36" uppers in an 12x13 L-shaped kitchen with a 6' island = $19,815 (uninstalled). Not a lot of fancy add-ins - and w/o plywood boxes). We live in Mass/NH border area. Does this seem reasonable for new semi-custom cabinetry? I have nothing to compare to!! If you have Brookhaven cabs, have you been happy?
Also, part of cabinetry will be in a small mudroom (2 90" high x 15" w cabs plus 36" 3-drawer base). To save money, I'm wondering whether it would work to cut those out of the Brookhaven quote and instead buy similar cabs at HD/Lowe's (but maybe in painted maple instead of cherry). Any thoughts or suggestions on any of this? I'm feeling really overwhelmed and keep second-guessing myself!
Hi, PokeyCat
Welcome to the site. I have found it to be a great resource over the past 6 years or so.
Re. Brookhaven - these are beautiful cabinets, as you know, and that price does seem to be in the ballpark, even without knowing what you are doing in terms of doorstyle, pullouts, etc. Is there a reason you have decided upon this line and have you explored other lines? (i.e. Is the KD promoting these over others?)
I don't think you will be able to find a similar cabinet at Lowes or HD, in terms of quality. But, you are right - you could find something to compliment the kitchen cabinets. Keep in mind that all-wood construction is very important to some people, as are maple wood veneer interiors, and undermount glides for drawers. Think about those things, esp. in a heavy traffic/use area.
In our last home, we did Plain and Fancy which I believe is slightly higher end than Bhaven and we did a similar reno - Arts and Crafts home. Our kitchen was larger than yours and we paid about $16,000 for cherry cabinets. Sometimes people substitute alder for cherry if they are trying to cut back a little, and the wood is similar in appearance. That's a consideration as well.
Yes, it is tough to make decisions when the KD's are so enthusiastic. I definitely want to do more quality comparison. This time around, the reno. is tougher - there seemed to be more selection, more showrooms in the midwest due to the fact that it is a major cabinet building center. I'm travelling between RI, CT and MA to see small displays of cabinets that I might not end up buying.
Best of luck!
P.S. There is an outdated list of cabinet ratings on the kitchen forum somewhere. Have you seen it?
Wellborn Forest
Woodland -
Shiloh-Medallion Showplace Kraftmaid
This is how I would list them roughly in terms of price and quality. Those on the same line will vary by kitchen but price within 10% of each other. IOW in one kitchen the Kraftmaid will be 10% less, in another the Shiloh would be 10% less--etc more or less.
Candlelight and Brookhaven would be closer in price ...I bumped BH up for quality. It is the only one of the bunch that has doweled face frames as far as I know.
All should be less expensive than P & F.
I have sold Brookhaven, Medallio at a former employer, and currently handle Showplace. I'm very happy with SWP, it is the most reasonably priced cabinet I carry. There is no current incentive to the dealer to sell them, I've never seen one from them. They do have a promo going for the customer.
Several of the others, the ones that are part of the large conglomerates will often run promotions where the designer or dealer get something. The smaller guys don't typically do that.
Pricing will have a lot will have to do with are you looking at framed, inset, or frameless?
Here is the most recent May 2012 price comparison done for an upper and base in Shaker by various manufacturers. Many of us found it quite helpful.
As always, jakuvall, thanks for weighing in on the OP's question. I assume SWP means Showplace. Will give them a look now too.
OP: I had about 18 linear feet of framed all wood Omega/Dynesty, white raised panel door cabinetry quoted out for an older kitchen redo. I added a lazy susan, and a pullout trash, mainly draw bases and two ready for glass uppers. With the 35% discount the price was $17000. Hth.
Here is a link that might be useful: Link:
Hi - we are in the NorthEast also and have Brookhaven cabinets throughout our kitchen. We have been very happy with the look, quality and features of our cabinets. Our KD only worked with BH, so we really didn't price out any other cabinets. So I can't answer your question in terms of quality of others vs. BH...but have been very satisfied with BH and their customer service.
I just quoted Medallion, Dura Supreme and Brookhaven for my small kitchen. Prices came in from lowest to highest in that order also although there was only about $1000 difference between the three on a less that $10,000 order. Simple craftsman style stained cherry, without plywood boxes on all three brands.
Medallion seemed like step below the other two (but still a very nice mid range cabinet) and the seller of the Brookhaven said Dura Supreme was closer to a Brookhaven cabinet then a Medallion. I ended up with the Dura Supreme because I got the price below the other two in bidding between two KD's and they were having a free upgrade to the cherry. They should be in within 2 weeks so I can't tell you how I like them.
I live in the RI/MA area and had similar issues with finding cabinets. I am 99% sure I'm going with Brookhaven, primarily because the KD has been a saint. The quote is around 19k for a 20 by 9 foot kitchen with a 7 foot island and separate 50 inch beverage center. Lots of drawers amd organizers, amd 6 glass uppers.
Thanks everyone - I'm learning so much, I wish I had done a better job of researching earlier in our process!
Pianist: The KD reps Brookhaven/Woodmode and Candlelight. The friend who recommended KD is very picky, and had an excellent experience - so that was a plus for me. She said the KD had caught several mistakes by her architect, which saved them money and also got them more usable storage. I didn't shop around like so many others here, and now I'm afraid to have buyer's remorse, so in a bit of panic mode!
Secondhalf: Glad to know your BH quote is close to mine! I will say that I've been frustrated getting price info from KD - she's very vague when I ask what certain cabinets cost.
Thanks for replying, everyone. @jackuvall This really helps - to have some idea of how cabinets stand up against each other. @Sparkling Water - the link is helpful. We are going for cherry cabinets, but I think i can get a sense of the 'pecking order' of cabinets using this model.
The bottom line for my husband and me is that we want a good warranty, all wood construction and good craftsmanship. I think we are going to move up the list a bit - our local kitchen centers do not have a lot to choose from so we will have to drive 30-60 miles to find what we want, I think. For the heck of it, we are going to get a Plain and Fancy quote (I will never forget the buttery feel of that gorgeous cherry in our last kitchen!), and probably 2 or 3 other more mid-range as well. Hearing about others' satisfaction with BH has pointed us in that direction. And, I think that if a company is willing to give a 20 yr or better warranty, that is worth alot. Depending on the final quotes, a difference of $5,000 -$7,000 could be worth the additional expense if the end result is a strong warranty and good customer service. Especially if we can get a beautiful cabinet that has a good reputation.
I really appreciate everyone's input. And, having professionals offer their professional ideas and opinions on the site is fantastic.
My Dynasty cabinets were installed in February. I am very happy with them. They are solid and well-made. Our cabinet dealer said Medallion was below Dynasty, Omega and Brookhave above. I think Omega and Dynasty are almost the same but I think you can get more custom options with Omega.
I sell a lot of StarMark here. Dollar for dollar I believe it is the best cabinet we offer here in our showroom, but keep in mind Northern New England is not exactly a booming kitchen market. We used to have Plain and Fancy but it was just to much for our demographic. We brought in the StarMark so we could offer something better quality than the big box and our customers and contractors alike have been very pleased with the quality.
+1 for Starmark. It's my flagship line at my store.
With current incentives, it makes them an EXCELLENT deal. In addition to excellent construction, I've had the best luck with Starmark being the most consistent, ie: product arriving on time, and everything arriving correct and undamaged.
Which Woodland are you referring to, OP? The company out of sisseton, SD?
I love my new Candlelight cabinets. The finish is so beautiful and holds up well to all kinds of abuse. I didn't shop around too much because my KD was so keen on this line, and the price was right for me. Two of my friends have used the same KD and we all have Candlelight. All 3 kitchens are just beautiful and we are all happy and would do again. My GC was so impressed with the finish on the Candlelight cabs he is planning to use the same in his house.
You can't beat Medallion for quality and price! Prices out around the same as KraftMaid. Some doors are higher and some are less. Their finish, to me, is the best of all semi-custom cabinet manufacturers. Their doorstyle end panels are mitre joined....so you don't get that ugly joint like on KraftMaid.
Warranties don't mean a thing! A 5 year warranty is just as good as a Lifetime warranty. Why? Because anything that's going to go wrong is going to happen within the first few months to a year. So a 5 to 7 yr warranty is plenty! Lifetime warranties are feel-good warranties.
FYI, Plain & Fancy only has a 7 yr warranty. But they are such a great company...if anything major happened after that....I know they would take care of it.
And remember P&F has two construction options. Vinyl interiors vs all wood interiors. Going with a basic door with their standard vinyl construction is not that much of a step up from Medallion sometimes.
Shiloh is awesome if you want inset!!! Prices out about the same as a KraftMaid full overlay door cabinet.
I've seen Shiloh in person and have not ruled them out entirely... nice quality and upgrades like inset doors at no additional charge.
We're doing an 11x15-ish kitchen with 7 various drawer base cabs and 5 uppers (2 glass) plus estimates for a pantry that now we aren't going with but 5 estimates so far for Shiloh, 2-local custom, Medallion and TheCabinetAuthority.com are all in the 10,000 to 15,000 range. The biggest price difference seems to be installation as far as I can tell.
I guess everyone wants 15 thousand dollars from us. :)
Good Luck!
Wow, more responses! Thanks for the input, folks. I visited a couple more kitchen design centers and found some more cabinet lines we're exploring. Cabico and Grabill. I was really impressed with the quality and huge range of stains for cherry. We are also getting quote for Plain and Fancy, just to see whether we might be able to keep it on the list.
Thanks for the opinions on warranty. And, @pektel, Woodland is based in SD, so you are correct. Not so sure they are still on our list.
If this post came with a music video, it would have to be titled "call me Showplace." If you haven't been paying attention to pop music videos, that reference will mean nothing, sorry.
This is my first posting. We've been hearing about this site for some time and and have been encouraged by dealers to weigh-in when conversations warrant. It appears one of our close partners, ShowplaceInsider, was slammed for being a bit over-exuberant awhile back so I will try to be very careful not to promote; only to clarify.
Regarding Showplace promotions mentioned by pianist in the initial post, Showplace promotions are ALL designed to provide additional value to the homeowner.
Naturally we want our dealers to inform their customers that Showplace cabinetry is a better buy during the promotion, but only in that it helps homeowners get what we believe is a great cabinet for less money. There are no hidden agendas or "smoke and mirror" tactics going on. pianist, we hope you aren't feeling coerced into looking at our cabinet if it doesn't fit your needs or expectations. My guess is that you have very exacting standards and are willing to pay for it -- that's not a knock BTW, that's why there are wide variations in quality & price, all of them selling their cabinets to someone.
Most of the brands in your preferred list are very nice and you'll be happy with them. A couple will likely make you less happy and a couple will make your pocketbook less full. As you have been shopping them, you no doubt already know this; you have a value-decision to make for yourself.
(PS our employee-owners wouldn't be very pleased to to know we're on your "not-so-keen-on" list with KraftMaid; not sure why, but ouch, that stings!)
We have decided on Woodharbor cabinets, it was a rough decision as we also liked Wellborn and to a lesser but acceptable degree...Diamond. Diamond is available at Lowes, the other two are offered by our KD. In the end, our layout is part of a great room area, and the cabinets need to be furniture grade in look and finish to match Drexel Heritage line of distressed, bubble glass etc. Woodharbor finishes and door styles sold us.
Funny to me, our current cabinets are 1976 US Home builder grade. The brand is Excel, and they are in great shape, all hinges etc are fine. Some sagging shelves, were easily replaced. I hope my new higher end cabinets are as good and lasting quality as my 30 plus year old builders grade ones......
As a veteran kitchen designer (retired from that career) I believe selecting the right designer is far more important than the cabinet brand. If you would like to see my thoughts on the subject in detail, I have put together a website (not selling anything) specifically about how to shop for cabinetry.
Here is a link that might be useful: How to shop for a kitchen
Some KD's are going to push one brand over another, but the KD's I know want to make sure you are pleased with your kitchen and that you stay in budget. That's how they build word of mouth referral. They choose a brand that has the flexibility they need to fit cabinets to your space, that delivers on time, and delivers correct, because they don't want to invite trouble into their work life, or yours.
Ask your KD why he/she is specifying certain brands. Ask if they would put that brand in their own kitchen, or their mother's.
I agree with drachiele that the KD & dealer is VERY important.
I REALLY REALLY LIKE the Shiloh Inset cabinets I just had installed. Dealer no. KD no. I must be dealing with the one dealer who doesn't(as JENCABINETGEEK states : "want to make sure you are pleased with your kitchen and that you stay in budget".
12x10' kitchen plus tax :$12,600. Cherry lowers, White painted uppers.
Thanks for all the info., everyone. I especially appreciate the input from professionals here on the site. Very helpful!
We're still on the fence re. choice of cabinet manufacturer. Got a few more quotes, including P&F and Medallion. I was surprised that P&F was only 25% more than Medallion. Bottom line: How much are we willing to spend. Isn't that always the big question? Lol!
The KD's have been great. One, in particular was fantastic and I would love to work with her but we are probably not going to go with the cabinets at her showroom. And, the company is local so I really wanted to support them. It's so tough to get it all pulled together - KD we love, cabinets we want, contractor with reasonable quote. But, we're getting closer.
Best of luck to anyone. Will be checking back for new posts.
Like many of you, I'm looking at different cabinet lines, weighing significant differences in prices. The quote I received for Brookhaven is significantly above a quote for Crystal. I know that Brookhaven Cabinets are well regarded, but it looks to me like they're furniture grade particle board boxes, with melamine veneered particle board shelves, and melamine interiors. Crystal has plywood boxes, plywood shelves and maple veneers. I don't notice a difference in the finishes between the two lines, but maybe Brookhaven's is better? Any insight would be appreciated!
I was in tHe Brookhaven showroom finalizing my cabinet order when I noticed a crack in the MDF box in one of the display kitchens. It was the thing that had been worrying me all along...the MDF. I've been told MDF is better for painted cabinets, but I just didn't feel good about what I was ordering, especially at that price....felt like I was paying premium for rather mediocre quality. I ended up down the street at another company who sells Grabill- all plywood boxes AND I ended up paying less....a shock as I think I'm getting a better product.
Interesting, second. Would you share info on relative pricing of Grabill vs. Brookhaven? There IS a Grabill shop about a half hour away from me...
I've *heard* that MDF might be better for frameless cabinets because it's a "stronger surface for attaching the hinge". Even Wood-mode's (NOT Brookhaven's) frameless cabinets are made from "furniture-grade, fine surface wood particleboard". But the possibility of it getting damp is the concern, right?
The Grabill quote came in about 1,000 UNDER what Brookhaven quoted. But the guy gave me quite a nice discount and worked to stick with my budget. Re the MDF, the Grabill does use an MDF inset door panel to minimize seam cracking on painted doors. But the boxes are plywood. I know there are downsides to both, but having touched and examined MDF and plywood boxes of similar measurements I can tell you I felt the Grabill was better quality so I went with them. Good luck!
In theory- it should mean that a line has a standard selection of cabinets in standard sizes (usually 3" increments) but then allows some variety of modification to those cabinets.
Variation in what can be modified, by how much, and the cost of modification varies enormously across the range o "semi custom" brands; ie some only will reduce dpths, some will only reduce depths, offer a few toe kick mods, a wide or extended stile. Sizing mods allowance varies from as little as 1/8" to only full inch changes. The most flexible will allow changes to the face of a cabinet moving rails or stiles to alter openings or drawer heights (only a few go that far)
To an extent it can simply denote a price point, the middle of the road. This partly caused by mfg of what I consider "so called custom" cabinets. There are a number of those who have a "semi" and a "custom" line where there may be some small differance in construction, or a few finishes reserved for. The higher priced line but little else. IMO a "Custom" line should: accept drawings for non standard items, do custom molding profiles, doors, alternate wood species, custom stains and variety finishes, and be willing to make alternate and/or hybrid construction, as well as install any accessory on the market.
Ah !! Thanks for the explanation.
Another one that can be considered is the cabinets we got ... UltraCraft.
They are Frameless cabinets that allow size modifications in 1/16" increments to height, width, and depth (or all 3) at no additional cost. Also, standard is full extension soft close drawers, soft close doors, no charge for finished sides, dovetail drawers with fully captured bottoms, and bunches of other stuff is standard. 100 year warranty.
We have been Very happy with them so far (14 months). This is in a vacation rental house that sleeps 26 people and has had 35 families stay there so far (most of them for 1 week).
Hi everyone,
I am ready to pull the trigger on Kitchen Cabs. I really like Benedettini (see link) and Brighton. I am also looking at Omega semi custom line and Shiloh.
Can anyone comment on and rank on quality. I will spend what I need to for long lasting cabinets.
Thanks so much!
Here is a link that might be useful: Benedettini Cabinets
I really hope you do not get Omega. Their warranty reps are delusional, their product literature is deceptive, and my $10,000 Omega Dynasty cabinets are disinegrating.
you can read more about Omega Dynasty and Omega Signature Cabinet failures here:
Here is a link that might be useful: Omega Cabinets problems on Houzz.com
Omega makes some beautiful cabinets, but nothing stands up forever to wear and tear or abuse. 4 years of water standing on a sink cabinet face WILL cause it to swell. Dragging things out of an upper cabinet instead of lifting them WILL cause the edge to chip and the finish to come off.
Below is a passage that is indicative of how those "defective" Dynasty cabinets were treated.
"Yesterday I put water in the plant on the window sill. The water fell right through onto the sill. It sat there for a few mintues because I didn't see it right away. I took a *used* paper towel and wiped off the water." From Houzz.
A plant sitting on a window sill without even the thought of a saucer under it?
You put saucers under plants, and you put coasters under drinks, and you can use a mild soap and water to clean your cabinets, but you wipe up the excess water when you're done. You don't let it sit there. And it's that old standby of uncommon common sense that you don't buy cabinets with a sharp edge and then drag stuff over that edge without expecting to knock off the finish or even chip the wood. If you want a sharp edge with minimal radius, then you've got to handle things a lot more carefully and not drag them across the surface. Or else go with a more radiused edge.
No cabinet will stand up to that treatment without some damage. That's abuse, not normal wear and tear.
hollysprings --
You are missing the point, as did siamese_yowl.
The water that fell through to the window sill DID NOT HURT THE WINDOW SILL because the PAINT on the window sill SEALED the wood from harm.
The water that fell on the Omega cabinets DID HURT the cabinets because the PAINT on the cabinets DID NOT SEAL the wood from harm.
Say hi to April and siamese for me.
I am new to these forums and have found them to be a fountain of information. I too am looking to remodel our kitchen (9' x 20' after demolishing a sad looking pantry!). I've looked at appliances (36" Wolf Dual fuel convection, Wolf Steam Oven, Wolf drawer Microwave, SZ 27" all fridge and all freezer). I'm leaning toward the Seamless 21" SS prep sink and 30" cleanup sink (although I'm attracted to the Rachiele SS sinks because of their right and left rear drains), and lots of counter space. I've been reading this forum and looking at cabinets for the past week. I stumbled upon Amish Custom Kitchens (http://www.amishcustomkitchens.com/default.asp). All wood construction (no particle, or furniture board). Modern pulls and glides, and great finishes. Has anyone heard anything about them?
Here is a link that might be useful: Amish Custom Kitchens
I actually went with Brighton. I am getting the same quality as the Omega full custome and a good 3500 less. I shopped and researched and did my best to ask all the right questions (dont be shy to grill them!!!) and satisfied with my choice. My recommendations is to go outside the standards on the market (ie: brookhaven, omega, etc) and you will find real quality at better prices and don't go with big box stores or membership type places since they always seem to push the manufacturer to make the same product found in much smaller places; at lessor cost to them; therefore, comprimising the quality.
I also recommend you make sure to work with an honest and reputable dealer that is recommended from a trusted source...there are lot's of "used car salesmen" mentalities out there. Most of all, don't let anyone rush you! Now on to the next adventure, cutting the deal on my appliance selections. Good Luck and speak to you all soon!
bchodo, I just visited your link to Amish Custom Kitchens. Very nice. I used to work with the Amish in Indiana years ago. They made cabinetry for me and I represented them in Florida for 14 years. The quality was amazing! Thanks for posting the link! (Dino Rachiele)
bchodo and drachiele--- I live on eastern Long Island, NY and I am looking into Levant cabinets made by the Amish Mullet Company. Do you know anything about this company, or anyone that represents the Amish company you speak about that is relatively close to me.
Hi cookingbuff. I am not familiar with Levant cabinets. I used to work with a company called Dutch Mills out of Goshen Indiana. They may be available in your area. I know they have changed hands since I stopped working with them. Therefore, I am not able to speak of the quality anymore. At one time they were considered to be one of the finest cabinets made in the country. For me, one of the most important issues when considering any product is the warranty. A quality product should be back by a strong warranty. Best of luck in your quest. Dino Rachiele
@researchcowgirl - We are just wrapping up our kitchen remodel, and ended up selecting Medallion, Designer Gold. We are really happy with the outcome. The quality is high, and we got everything we wanted without stepping up to the Platinum level. Our kitchen is very large - two wall lengths with cabinets are 11 and 12 feet, and there is also an island and buffet area, all with cabinets. We have a huge island and tall cabinet next to the buffet. Our cabinets came in at less than $15,000. Cherry, stained in pecan with a glaze to give it a buffed less 'glossy' and more matte finish. I was amazed that your cabinet quote was so high, but perhaps you have a lot of detail that we were not looking for. How large is your kitchen? And, if you are looking for a higher end cabinet, I don't think Omega is better. We did look at that line. We were comparing everything to a kitchen we had in our last home, and those cabinets were Plain and Fancy. They are gorgeous. I would have loved to have them again, but the price would have exceeded our budget. I'll post photos when we are finished the kitchen in two weeks! PS Medallion has promotions a couple of times a year, and if you can wait before ordering, you might end up getting a free stain, or a discount on your cabinet choice - eg. upgrade from maple to cherry.
In my experience Life Time Warranties definitely are better than 5 year warranties because things can and do happen. We bought our maple cabinets in 1997. Within a couple years two of the doors split between seams where the cabinets were put together. The company we went with had a limited life time warranty. Last November, 2012 we had another 25 cabinet doors replaced due to the same splitting in the same place. They all had 4-6 splits. The rep told us that the wood had not been dried properly before they were lacquered. Ultimately this did not work out because the original cabinets were a washed maple and they had yellowed. Consequently, when they replaced the doors none of them matched. However, had we gone with anything but maple the match may have been much closer. My parents have the same cabinets 2 blocks away and their's are fine. SO we got a lemon for sure. BUT had we gone with a cabinet company with a 5 year warranty we would have spent thousands to replace what the company has had to replace due to their limited lifetime warranty. THAT warranty is not simply a "feel good" term. It does make a difference. However, don't go with maple. My kitchen and bathrooms now look like a patch work quilt. :(
I have been reading many posts regarding purchase of kitchen cabinets. We need to replace kitchen and vanities in our Florida seasonal condo. Being new to Florida-we live in Canada--I am have tough time getting reasonable prices. Our kitchen is about 10 feet X 11 feet plus about 5 feet of cabinets under a window for total of about 26 feet. Most of the cabinets are standard except for 10 feet of upper cabinets over a penninsula. These cabinets are 24 in high with end cabinet from ceiling to counter top. The cabinets are frameless and have doors with glass on both sides. Can someone recommend a good dealer or kitchen designer in the Boynton Beach area (Near West Palm Beach ) and perhaps advise name of good cabinet manufacturer. We have had 2 quotes now that seam very high. Your help is appreciated
I have been reading many posts regarding purchase of kitchen cabinets. We need to replace kitchen and vanities in our Florida seasonal condo. Being new to Florida-we live in Canada--I am having a tough time getting reasonable prices and really have no idea if the companies are reputable. Our kitchen is about 10 feet X 11 feet plus about 5 feet of cabinets under a window for total of about 26 feet. Most of the cabinets are standard except for 10 feet of upper cabinets over a penninsula. These cabinets are 24 in high with end cabinet from ceiling to counter top. The cabinets are frameless and have doors with glass on both sides. Can someone recommend a good dealer or kitchen designer in the Boynton Beach area (Near West Palm Beach ) and perhaps advise name of good cabinet manufacturer. We have had 2 quotes now that seam very high. Your help is appreciated
I work for Plain & Fancy and I just wanted to clarify that we have changed our warranty to limited lifetime. You can see all of these changes reflected on our website here http://plainfancycabinetry.com/kitchen-organization/warranty. Thanks for all your nice comments!
Here is a link that might be useful: Plain and Fancy - Warranty
To cooking buff, I have been to levant's manufacturing plant and met the people there: family business, 2nd generation, honest, fabulous craftsmen and end product. while the Amish generally value craftsmanship, some are better than others! levant is top notch.
Anyone used Shilo cabinets recently? The comments from 2008 were all really good but things can change in a few years. Doing painted cabinets and wanted to make sure the finish was really durable. Quoted inset doors for this kitchen, sounds like doweled drawers are an up charge?? Redoing a high end house, sales point will be 2 million. Joann
joann1960: Below is a link to a Shiloh kitchen recently done. There have been quite a few painted Shiloh kitchen done on this site recently. The standard drawer box is dovetail plywood, but you can upgrade to a maple drawer box. You have to upgrade the drawer slides to Blum with soft close when you do inset. The charge is $72 list for blum and $67 list for maple drawer box.
Here is a link that might be useful: lcskaisgir Shiloh Kitchen
Hampshire Cabinetry out of Ohio has a semi-custom line called Stonebridge that they came out with a few years back. They sell through a dealer network throughout the country with a lot of dealers in the Chicago, DC, and NY/NJ areas. They use the same finishes (catalyzed conversion varnish) they use on their custom line for their semi custom line. They have the best finishes in the industry and the finish is what really makes the cabinets last and makes them look beautiful. They have a really large selection of finishes, custom colors, wood species, and door styles to choose from. The best part is that they are small enough their customer service is amazing. They stand behind their product and service repair/replacement cabinetry. If you call them a real person answers and can almost always answer your questions right away. Because they do semi-custom and custom, you can mix and match and do a few very custom pieces while keeping the costs down. They are a family company and have been in business since 1970. Cost comes in right around the same price as Medallion, but the quality and customer service is a lot better. They also have a great website and a lot of photos on Houzz. I wouldn't sell anything but Hampshire cabinets for the mid to higher price range!
Here is a link that might be useful: Hampshire Cabinetry
I'm just discovering this site. Since 2012 there have been many posts comparing cabinet companies including; Dynasty made by Omega, Shiloh, Brook Haven made by Wood Mode, Candlelight, Grabill, Medallion, and StarMark. I am about to put in a new kitchen (20' x 15') full of many cabinets plus a large island in the center. I thought I had made up my mind and chosen Dynasty (I had only quoted Dynasty, Brook Haven, and Shiloh) but have since reopened my entire search based on the horrible reviews that I've been reading on Houzz regarding the quality of the Dynasty Cabinetry. My number 1 need is quality. I do a ton of cooking and need these cabinets to last a very long time, and want an outstanding warranty no matter which company I choose. I don't mind if the price varies a bit between my choice ($5k give or take as this is a huge project) but I not want to go higher end like Wood Mode (or any of the comparable cabinets) for budget reasons. Can any of you please share any info you available is you have any of these lines???? thanks:)
Stop reading reviews. It's paralyzing you. Every line there is will have bad reviews from someone. Usually that someone has incorrect expectations from the beginning such as mistaking a stock line for semi-custom or a semi-custom line for custom or for wood to behave like plastic.
Your KD should tell you how many cabinets from each vendor needs to be replaced on the recent jobs. KDs HATE to deal with unhappy customers caused by cabinet company issues. That means that they will try to steer a customer away from those lines that give them headaches.
No KD wants to have a 30% higher priced sale if that sale results in half of the kitchen being replaced. Or, in my case, I have a "value priced line" that I steer people away from because of their issues. It's not trying to up their expenditures. It's trying to up their satisfaction rate. The biggest regret that most people end up with after a remodel is going with a lesser quality cabinet line in order to meet their budget.
Dealing with immediate warranty issues on not even installed kitchen really sucks. No KD will steer you to a line that has those issues. Dynasty is a fine choice for anyone's upper middle range project as long as that is your expectation for your home.


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Kenmore Elite 600 Series 4 Burner Dual Fuel Maroon Metallic Gas GrillItem# 07133577000 | Model# PG-40415SOL
Follow this item and we'll let you know when the price drops
Specifications & Dimensions
|Overall Shape:
|Dimensions and Capacity:
|Bonus Grid Area (sq. in.):
|Depth (in.):
|Height (in.):
|Item Weight (lbs.):
|Primary Cooking Area:
|400 sq. in. and above
|Primary Cooking Area (sq. in.):
|Total Cooking Area Range:
|700 sq. in. and above
|Total Grill Cooking Area (sq. in.):
|Wheel or Caster Size (in.):
|Width (in.):
|Product Overview:
|Minimal Assembly Required
|Built-in Light:
|Burner Type:
|Fit bar burner
|Fuel Type:
|Dual fuel
|Grill Type:
|Wheels or Casters:
|Lid Color:
|Maroon Metallic
|Overall Color:
|Materials & Finishes:
|Body Material:
|Steel/Stainless steel
|Material, Lid:
|Included with Item:
|Bonus Burner:
|Grill Side Shelf:
|Handle Material:
|Stainless steel
|Number of Handles:
|Frame Design:
|Number of Wheels:
|Wheels Location:
|Front and Back
|Wheels Material:
|Number of Cooking Grates:
|Drip Pan:
|Warranties & Coverage:
|General Warranty:
|2 year limited
|Warranty Terms - Parts:
|15 year burner
|Cook System:
|Burner Material:
|Stainless steel
|Heat Distribution:
|Stainless steel
|Ignition Type:
|Prefer Electronic Ignition:
|Tank Connection:
|Temperature Gauge:
|Temperature Gauge Location:
|BTUs Per Hour:
|40,000 or more
|Flame Tamer:
|Side Burner BTUs:
|Spider Guards:
|Total BTUs:
|Bonus Grid:
|Bonus Grid Material:
|Stainless steel
|Bonus Grid Type:
|Warming rack
|Cooking Grate Material:
|Stainless steel
|Primary Grid Burner No.:
|Bonus Burner Type:
|Flush mount side burner
|Side Burner Included:
|Shelves & Storage:
|Side Shelf Material:
|Stainless steel
|Side Shelf Type:
|Controls, Electronics:
|Fuel Gauge:
|CSA Listed:
Ratings & Reviews
Product Description
Kenmore Elite 4 Burner Dual Fuel Gas Grill - Sturdy and Stylish
Heavy duty, professional quality and stylish design make the Kenmore Elite 4 burner dual fuel maroon metallic gas grill the grill of choice for barbecue beginners and seasoned grill masters alike. Perfect for parties and family get-togethers, the large grilling space and stainless steel warming rack cook and keep your grilled goodies piping hot. Four high-performance stainless steel burners feature individual electronic ignitions for trouble-free lighting, and a cast iron side burner lets you cook delicious sides and sauces at the same time.
This Kenmore Elite grill comes with FREE White Glove Delivery which includes the delivery, assembly, and placement in your desired location. Just select delivery and assembly in your shopping cart (A $118.99 Value!).
2 built-in halogen lights shine plenty of light for nighttime grilling while the LED lighted control panel provides elegant nighttime ambiance. An eye-catching maroon metallic finish on the lid and doors complement polished heavy duty stainless steel accents so this Kenmore Elite 4 burner dual fuel maroon gas grill will resist chipping and rust to maintain its striking good looks and top-notch performance year after year.
- 694.1 sq. in. cooking space
- 4 burners totaling 64,000 BTUs
- Individual zone electronic ignition system for trouble free lighting
- Professional performance stainless steel cooking grids
- Enameled porcelain coated lid with polished stainless steel trim & handle
- Powder coated doors with polished stainless steel trim & handles
- Stainless steel control panel with built in glass with LED light
- 2 halogen lights built into the firebox provide plenty of light for night time grilling.
- Built in tank gauge
- Dual fuel system for easy conversion to natural gas using a natural gas conversion kit
- 2 large stainless steel side shelves for extra space
- Some assembly is required. Assembly is only available on online orders for home delivery and comes with an additional fee.
- Convert it to natural gas with natural gas conversion kit 071-34562
- Add the 071-44523 rotisserie for a variety of cooking options.
Added on January 06, 2014
Overall, others give this:
Reviewers may have received a benefit, like a sweepstakes entry or rewards program points, in exchange for writing a review.
Those benefits were not conditioned on the positive or negative content of the review.
Most Helpful Reviews
The Villages, FL
via sears.com
I had a Sears Elite grill for 10 years and loved it. I than bought this grill six months ago and it's the worst grill in the world. The rear light burned out in one week and the stainless steel all around the doors is rusting out. I have a very expensive cover on it at all times so it is in no way open to the elements of the weather here in Florida. I haven't even paid for it and it look terrible from the rust. Sears should be ashamed!
via sears.com
I wasn't sure after thorough comparison if i should go with a weber or this kenmore elite 600 series. I really didn't see much difference between the equivalent weber that cost $1499 and this one that costed me $999, and the warranty was exactly the same which i think they are actually made by weber. the stainless steel grates that are 9mm thick and extremely easy to clean, heat is very even and strong. I think they are worth the money and better value than a weber for the money.
Boulder, CO
via sears.com
I recently purchased a Kenmore Elite 600 series Maroon gas grill. Initial impressions were that it was very solidly built (with the exception of a couple of internal struts that are designed to be loose for some reason I cannot understand...) Seems to have very even heat distribution and the stainless grates and burners are excellent. My only complaint is that the tray around the side burner does not lift out without disassembling the gas connection, so if any food spills into burner area, you cannot easily clean it. Good product overall.
Vista, CA
via sears.com
They delivered it on time and assembled it including replacing the conversion kit to natural gas. The cooking quality is excellent and food really tastes great. I have owned many grills but this is the best one yet. I would definitely recommend it to a friend
Brazil, IN
via sears.com
This was a sears replacement guarantee grill and I could not be more pleased with this item. If weather would straighten up would be grilling today. Lots of better features as I upgraded from the Kenmore 5 burner series lower quality grill. Not even a fair comparison on the difference. You will be happy with this purchase
San Jose, CA
via sears.com
Though the grill costs a bit more, the quality of materials justify the money spent. The grates are professional grade, The building materials are sturdy. When I compared similar grills like Weber Genenis , The difference appears when you look under the hood. The grade of materials are not the same. I looked at several different grills before deciding on the 600 series. I tend to buy products I do not have to replace often, but when I do, it's nice to know that instead of buying a new grill, I could buy replace parts that fit. As mentioned in an earlier review, it would have been nice to have the lights be battery operated, but running an extension cord out to the grill on the few nights I grill was not a deal breaker. The delivery and set up were just as promoted, The grill was pre-assembled and arrived on time.
Oxnard, CA
via sears.com
Just got the grill love it but they don't tell you that the inside lights are not battery operated, you have to run an extension cord with 120V to use.
Congers, NY
via sears.com
Unit assembly instructions for shelf screw mounting locations are not clear in drawings (especially the location of M4X12 screws). Several pre-assembled screws were stripped and loose on unit. Natural Gas connector kit was unavailable in the store and required online order. Kit arrived missing essential flame height tool needed for proper setup of BBQ.
via sears.com
Love the thing grates. Was easy to install (I opted to put it together it myself since installed delivery on the day I wanted was not guarantied). Beware: you will need a conversion lit complete with larger orifices should you decide to convert to NG - natural gas.
Norcross, GA
via sears.com
I bought this grill to replace a Kenmore Elite grill purchased in 1998. That grill lasted many years and was rebuilt several times. I just didnt want to get rid of it. I decided this was the year, so we went to Sears to see if the new Kenmore Elite grills were as nice. Turns out, they are! The grates are very thick allowing you to get perfect grill marks and the grill gets very hot. The design minimizes flareups and after using it 4 times I am very happy with the decision to stay with Kenmore Elite. IT IS A GREAT GRILL!!!
- Online Only! Free Delivery & Assembly on Kenmore Elite Grills, a $118.99 Value! Sold by Sears Offer ends 04-Apr-2015 See details.
- Special Financing Event! Extra 5% OR 12 months No Interest on Outdoor Living items $299 & up! Offer ends 04-Apr-2015 See details.
- Extra Savings Event - Extra 5% off Grills. Items sold by Sears. Offer ends 04-Apr-2015 See details.
- Get Quarter ct tw Diamond Earrings for $24.99 with any storewide purchase of $19.99 or more! Offer ends 31-May-2015 See details.


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I'm on team CalDolFan10x14. Join me!
-Dan MarinoI just try to be myself, whatever that is. I don't think about how I'll be remembered. I just want to be consistent over a long period of time. That's what the great players do.
Hopefully Ireland understands play makers win games nowadays. No more cornfed linemen. I'm cautiously optimistic the Fins know they need play makers, but Ireland's track record speaks for itself.
Ryan versus Long aside, we're all Dolphins fans and want what is best for the team. We just disagree as to what that might be and have a little fun debating it.
What impresses me about today's game is how much fun it has been to watch. We have two offenses that are dynamic, high scoring and have playmakers. We have coaches who aren't afraid to take risks, to throw the ball long. I can't remember the last time I could say that about the Dolphins. If I have to live with Ireland as our GM I sure hope he can get Philbin the players needed to get our offense to this point.


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Just watched 'Killing Them Softly' starring Brad Pitt. Expect a review soon! #BradPitt
432 days ago.
Killing them softly was garbage.
Just watched Shame and Killing Them softly. 5 stars each
Killing Them Softly was awful #Boring
And there I was killing them softly with my song. Or rather being killed. And not so softly either.
433 days ago.
Exclusive Cast Interview
Brad Pitt talks about re-teaming with director Andrew Dominick while Ray Liotta talks about taking on a very physically demanding role.
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Fundraising Page of Lisa Heinle
Missoula Marathon July 12, 2009
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Bob and I are very grateful for all the incredible people in our lives - it has made this journey possible. We appreciate anything you can give to help fund research for spinal cord injury. We live with great hope that this critical research will change the lives of so many living with paralysis. With sincere thanks....Bob and Lisa


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