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Microsilk vs. Air Tub (Jason) OR Bain Ultra
Apologies for the additional thread. I realize there was an earlier thread on the Jason Microsilk but apparently it was hijacked and I'd rather have opinions/advice from real users and installers of the product.
I would like to hear some opinions on the air tub vs. the microsilk technology. Hubby sort of wanted a whirlpool tub for massage until I explained to him I'd rather not clean the jets. He's on board with soaking with bubbles, just need to determine which model and price. Not sure whether to go with microsilk or straight air tub. The combo model seems pricey at additional 2K so he probably won't want to spend that much. I think he had sticker shock at the base prices.
I haven't found any prices on line yet for the Bain Ultra for me to use for budgeting purposes. Obviously the Jason site provides pricing on each model. We're looking for 60 x 32. Probably the Amma (if Bain Ultra) or the Encore for Jason (EC527)
Has anyone bought the Jacuzzi air tub? I don't think we have any MTI dealers near here.
Hi Diva,
I have the Bain 2013 price list for Canada, so it will be slightly different for you...would be curious if it's more or less in the US seeing as it's a Canadian company!
The Amma 6032 (21" deep) is listed at $3875. My plumbing supply place has given me a quote for the Oval Plus (66 X 38 x 19) for $3648 and it is listed at $3815, so I assume the Amma would also be a little less than listed.
Hope this helps!
You should try to locate a showroom next to you for the Bain ultra . I got mine ,the thermal oval 66x34x20 for $2450 . They were getting rid of that display model . I tried to locate an online dealer in the states before finding this one , but couldn't . Good luck .
Before ordering, I called Bain Ultra's customer service line to inquire about costs and they quoted me retail $3750 for my tub + $350 for the Geysair option. (That was in January and they also said that there was going to be a price increase in February.) There's only one dealership within a 100 mile radius of where we live, but the representative there came down on the price at my request, finally settling at $2,840 for the tub and $300 for the Geysair, a discount of about 24%.
thanks raehelen/lillo/coolbeans for the pricing you have - - there is only one dealer close by me, I'm on an island so no chance of driving elsewhere. They don't have any in the showroom you can sit in (this is true of most brands, as showroom space is expensive on an island). The other dealers seem to like the Jason brand (I suspect because they get better support and avail parts over the Bain Ultra)
I found an MTI dealer today so now I can research those.
Any opinions on whirlpools these days? Easier to clean/more sanitary than old ones?
Has anyone used the Jason Microsilk?
You probably already saw my comments on the other thread. DH and I were able to check out a demo tub -- not a whole body experience but enough that we are both looking forward to getting one. I was thinking it might be a lot of hoopla but wondered if DH would go along if I liked it. Now, I think I'd have a hard sale if I wanted to get something else. They are not cheap. Guess it helped the sticker shock when I told DH about the $10-15K tubs I was seeing in my online research before I got to the Jason. It helps when more than you thought you wanted to spend is a fraction of what you didn't realize you could spend. ;-)
I have had a couple of whirlpool tubs with mixed reviews (all jets, including number and placement) are not created equal, so I was curious what an air jet tub would be like. Something like the tiny bubbles of the Kohler effervescent tub would probably annoy me more often than it would feel pleasant, so I was pleased to find that both the Bain Ultra demo and the Jason produced rolling bubbles. To liken it to a pot of water - the different settings gave you the turbulence of a simmer up to a rolling boil. What you don't get is a concentrated stream strong enough to apply pressure on certain spots (which may or may not be where you want them at any given time).
Absent the Microsilk, I think any of the air tubs would be nice. But having experienced Microsilk, we both want it. While we didn't get to soak in the middle of the showroom floor, we did submerge our arms up to the elbow in the full sized tub at one location and in a test basin in another location. You don't havethe sir jets when you use the microsilk -- it is one or the other and they suggest using the Micrsilk once or twice a week.
When the Microsilk is on, millions of tiny bubbles are jetted out into the water, causing a milky or foggy look with just the slightest motion in the water. The bubbles are so tiny, they don't seem to sit on your skin and tickle their way around an up like the Kohler appears to, Instead, they are so fine that they can penetrate your pores and help remove impurities. They say it also hydrates your skin. I noticed the arm in the tub was noticeably softer than the arm that wasn't. I could see the difference on DH's arm (less dry and less noticeable wrinkles) three days later. In the demo basin, I noticed a ring around the basin afterwards. DH and I both showered just before we drove to that showroom, plus I had been to the restroom and washed my hands after we arrived. The deep cleaning seems to be for real.
I haven't gotten firm pricing since my progress on planning our bathroom was sidelined by a knee injury that got worse and required surgery, I got the idea that one showroom did not negotiate on pricing and that Jason was the lower end of their selection, so they didn't have to. I think there may be contractor discounts of 20-25% out there though.
There is a GW member who posted a completed bathroom with a Jason airtub recently (sofla?). I searched for the post, but I couldn't find it. I think her tub is the airjet without Microsilk, undermounted in white marble, and she said she loved it.
Hope that helps
thanks lascatx, I think I recall your post earlier. We went to a store today which also recommends the Jason but has not sold any with Microsilk. Now he's thinking combo (air/jets) because I think he really wants the massage action of the jets - I will have to show him the additional price. He recently had pinched nerve in back so he's thinking of potential future use in the event it reoccurs. I know Jason also has combo whirlpool/Microsilk but not all three. I'm with you about the "rolling" bubbles. Seems it would be more relaxing. I'm not into aromatherapy as lots of scents just give me a headache, and the chromotherapy isn't that important to me. I think we've narrowed it to Bain Ultra or Jason, but I really fear having to clean some unsightly jets down the road.
Sorry to hear of your injury, hope you heal soon!
Thanks. I am definitely on the mend.
If Jason offered all three in one tub, I think I'd pay the extra and just be done with the decision, and it seems others feel that way too. When I first heard of the Jason tubs, the sales girl said you could get all three. I came home to do some research and was very disappointed. They will probably start offering it within a year of us installing one that isn't. ;-)
My DH doesn't find the jets hitting him to be relaxing. I carry my issues in my neck and shoulders and thought about the possibilities of a whirlpool tub with one of those jetted neck pillows, but that brings up more cleaning issues. I've also found that if the jets aren't in the right place for what is ailing you at the moment, you can twist and contort yourself to where you are really working against relaxing the muscles. One showroom person said too much pressure even on the right spot can cause you to tense up and I've read comments that some people do experience that.
If your DH really wants jets, MTI allows you to customize placement of the jets. I thought Hydrosystems did too, but that part of their website is under construction and I couldn't verify it. That works if you have a chronic issue with pain in a certain area. If your DH pinches a different nerve, has a different muscle spasm or finds the direct pressure is too much, you could be back to the contortionist thing.
I have had whirlpool tubs. I liked one and am not that fond of the current one (only side jets on a wide oval so they don't do much more than the rolling bubbles for me). I really don't mind flushing the system periodically. What I do mind is that this cultured marble tub has discolored and stained over the years -- even developed some pitting. The worst stains are below the jets where I guess water has drained out over the years (house is 20+ years now). Where things can get really mucky is behind the jets if there is sitting water (we had black shooting out of the jets when we first moved in and cleaned it because the house had been vacant 6 months when we bought it --yuk!). Running bleach through the system is all you need to clean and avoid that -- and not letting it sit unused for 6 months. Even that issue is not what it used to be because the tub makers have redesigned the tubing to have low spots that drain rather than long parallel lines that would retain water.
Maybe you can tell your DH that you can pay for a cleaning lady to come once a month and give the bathroom the full cleaning job you are leery of or you could take the same money and he (maybe both of you) could get a massage. :-D
Sorry I'm so long-winded!
Not long winded at all Lascatx, very valuable information. Thanks so much for sharing. GC asked us today if we have the dimensions of what we want so he can work with architect to finish up drawings (we have to get community association approval before local govt. approval). He wants to draw in tub/deck/and probably location of access panel. So I need to make decision within next couple of days and probably can determine exact features later before ordering, if I at least choose the tub model. Hubby has sort of relented on the jets as I keep talking to him, I doubt he'll go for Microsilk combo - due to price - however, your point about the low spots in the tubing reducing the stagnant water may keep the jets alive. LOL.
On the up side, the architect finally caught on to what I wanted in the shower and has redrawn the curbless with no doors and no glass. Now just to tweak the configuration.
Has anyone else experienced cleaning issues with newer model whirlpool tubs? Any one else purchased the microsilk?
many more questions to post as we join you in this renovation quest!
You might want to see if you can find the earlier threads and see sofla's finished bathroom. I failed in my attempt, but she listed the Jason tub. I can't remember if she got the microsilk, but I think someone might have ordered it Also, have you read all the info on Jason's website? One of the testimonials about Microsilk appears to be a VP of the company where we will probably buy our tub.
I don't want to be the reason your DH doesn't get jets if the would really help him. You just have to weigh what you know and what you think you can expect and make the best guess you can. Did you have a whirlpool when he had the pinched nerve? If you did and it was helpful, it might be worth it. But how often would it be used if he doesn't have another problem?
I just remembered that one sales lady told me that her advise was not to put in a whirlpool unless it was going to get used at least every month. She said they work best and make the most sense if they are used regularly. If it is likely to sit there unused, it is more likely to have problems.
One other possible factor -- would your DH want to use anything in the tub when soaking? I think you can use a plain bath salt soak, but no oils or other bath products can be used with the whirlpool because they can damage the system. Air jets are different because thy pump water into the tub rather than circulate it through the system.
Good luck. Must be exciting to be getting so close. Your shower sounds like what I hope to be able to do -- with a wide enough door to age in place or possibly with no door, but it will require a new layout and some drain changes, I'm a little afraid of what we may hear.
I couldn't find the gallery or Sofla's finished bathroom, but I did find the post where the tub is described (Jason air masseur) and the pump placement which prevented purchase of the Microsilk.
You won't be the reason he gets or doesn't get the jets but your information / comments should be included in the overall review. We don't have whirlpool now and a month ago he didn't want a tub at all. Then he got that pinched nerve while on travel -- better now but got him thinking of the possibilities as we age in place. He wouldn't use bath oils but I might. He's more of a shower guy but can now see it could be useful for relaxation. I don't picture him using it daily.
The vendor here said she hasn't yet sold any Microsilk models but now the economy is picking up, she hopes to. So no local opinions. I have gone to the web site but not sure how much is marketing and how much is real. I will likely call their 800 # for more information.
I felt exactly like you when I walked out of the showroom -- no, probably more certain that it was all hype. Then I remembered that a facial product I really liked for deep cleaning and unclogging pores -- an oxygen mask. That was enough to make me look for reviews and more information, but I wouldn't have been willing to pay it without finding a demo and trying it. Like I said, I could feel the difference on my skin and see it on DH's for 3 days after we tried it.
If it would be helpful to you, I can give you the mane of the place where we tried the demo and let you talk to the lady there. They have sold them and gotten good feedback. The most dramatic are for those with skin conditions that are aided by it (eczema, psoriasis, etc.) and those with older, drier skin.
Also, has your sales person not tried a demo? A lot of the folks in the trade have tried them at the trade shows or from a Jason rep bringing a demo to them. Maybe your dealer can request one?
And now I remember the pump placement issue. That will be something we will have to work out, but there should be a way. The air jet motor can be placed remotely (for sound) or it can fit under the tub. The MicroSilk apparently sticks out a bit -- haven't gotten exactly how much yet, but hear it is perhaps 2-3 inches.
I have been wanting a certain brand of jetted tub for years. When Spike was still in charge here I mentioned the brand name and got warned that they were "banned" for apparently trying to promote themselves on the forums before.
This tub uses jets that are individually powered by electric motors. Each jet is able to be dismantled from the inside of the tub and cleaned. Because each jet is its own electric motor, there is no need for tubes. When turned off, each jet simply drains back into the tub. With most tubs, the bacterial and fungal growth occurs in the water left behind in the tubing around the outside of the tub.that is between the jets This tub is certified by the NSA, National Sanitation Foundation, and is the only spa tub to earn this designation. The small electric motors and lack of pumps also makes this spa tub quieter.
I will likely never have a place to put one of these. I opted for a far infrared sauna to treat my aches and pains. It only needed electric, no plumbing, and can easily move with me if I do move. But those looking for spa tubs should check out this brand. You can only buy them from the manufacturer. Think about it. What jetted tub showroom is going to carry one that points out that all of the other ones they sell are leaving water behind in their tubing to percolate bacteria and other nasty microbes to bathe you with in your next bath?
Here is a link that might be useful: The Jetted Tub that Shall Not Be Named
For some reason my answer yesterday did not post. Lascatx, I think we are just leaning toward the air tub. Not sure yet whether it will be Jason or Bain Ultra yet, gotta make decision fairly soon for the bldg. drawings. The local shop said they had a demo unit of the Microsilk but it is not working (thus did not impress) and the other store that carries Jason had nothing on display and no demo unit. They even direct you to the web site for pricing rather than quote anything. Perhaps if you can share your salesperson's # I can speak with them.
Nancy, I have looked before at the Jetted Tub that shall not be named and will have hubby take another look. Too funny, the Voldemort of jetted tubs. :-) Maybe that is why there are fewer opinions posted here about the various brands, people got warned off naming them specifically. The spammers make it hard for those trying to make educated decisions.
The person I talked to with the demo tub was Marilyn Hermance. She is the Chairman and CEO of Westheimer Plumbing and seemed to have more info on feedback than the person I talked to at the branch showroom. The phone number there is (713) 942-9519.
I just saw that they have a new price sheet. I was looking to remember what the price difference was with MicroSilk and it seems they have gone up a bit. Better get it done before next spring. If the economy picks up and MicroSilk catches on, it could go up even more. Let's see, if we both use it at least once a week for the next ten years..... or twenty.......
I have the Jason Forma , rectangle , undermount, air masseur tub. I did not get the microsilk because of the placement of the pumps and motors. I only had access on right side of tub for the air masseur. My drain is in the center. I replaced a garden soaker tub so I have no comparison frame of reference to compare it with jets. I am loving my baths. So relaxing, sleep like a baby. I feel as if I've had a massage.
I love hearing that. Our whirlpool pump sprung a leak so we have been unable to take baths. Well, we could, but we can't clean the jets or lines, so we're not going to at this point. I'm looking forward to any tub right now, but especially one that will feel like a massage!
We will soon be getting back to working on bathroom plans. It could turn out that the MicroSilk will be a problem for us too, I hope not.
Since Sanijet has been discussed frequently on this forum I am wondering why people think it can't be name? I can understand self promotion should not occur on these forums but brand names are discussed by most everyone on the GW forums - sharing user experience and seeking information on brands is part of why these forums exist.
We are trying to make the Airtub vs Sanijet decision. One of my concerns is servicing with the Sanijet and I believe someone on here had a leak that went undiscovered - although that could probably happen with any of these tubs.
The leak in my whirlpool pump would have gone undetected if it had not been for the fact that the air switch was not working and I had to access the pump to see if both ends of the tubing were connected. One had come loose, but when I tested it, I discovered the water -- only because the access was open. Otherwise, it would have run under the tub and probably spread to other areas where it could have done some serious damage before we would have noticed.
re: Sanijet, apparently when it was under discussion the spammers hit and made life miserable for everyone. Recently we attempted to talk Jason tubs and there was a lot of unwanted traffic. I like the idea of the Sanijet but doubt anyone near me services them. My house is on slab so if I had a leak, the drywall and floor might be damaged but not a floor/furniture underneath. However, think we'd all prefer to avoid the leaks!
The current tub (the one to be replaced wasn't really installed with what I would consider an "access panel." It has a cultured marble surround on one end, one full side and half of another side that is shared with the shower. The only access is to cut the caulk and remove the entire side panel, which was grouted in at the bottom when the tile was done. Is that kind of a no, but yes? It works when you only have to fix the air switch once every 10 years (when we bought the house and just recently) , but it could be easier and easier would be better.
My house is on a slab also and the master bath on in the ground floor. The water I discovered spread across toward the shower (if it kept going it would have gone into the closet) and may have run out the weep holes of the outside wall. I didn't go check (it was before my knee surgery and I was just focused on getting it dried up. Of course I discovered it when DH wasn't home to help. I'm thinking a water alarm could be installed under the tub so that if it happened in the new tub the alarm would switch off power to the pump. I think we may add something like that.
Sofla, I'm in Hawaii. Many houses here are on slab, many older ones are post-and-pier construction (not so good for hurricane winds). A lot of houses built circa 1940-60s are what is called single wall construction - it's just the outside coat of paint, the boards, and the inside coat of paint between you and the great outdoors. No drywall. Occasionally there is a basement or split level dug into the hillside or a mansion built on the cliff. Ours is circa late 80's typical suburban contractor development.
I have a Jason air/microsilk. But unfortunately it's still sitting in our shop. Won't be installed for couple more months........ It's so hard to come in after a long day and see it just sitting there!
I talked to a showroom in Phoenix area and he told me that the University of Arkansas Burn Unit uses the Microsilk for burn patients. He said they were having very good results with it and plans for putting in more. Sales hype? not sure but I went for it :)
Interesting, terri - one of the local vendors got the demo unit running so I plan to stop by and check it out in a day or so. I wonder what size the Burn Unit uses? Maybe they use the microsilk unit on a special tub that one can walk into instead of being like a regular bath tub. I would really like to consider microsilk / air masseur but the combo is likely out of my budget.
I hope you get to use yours soon!
I recently put in a Jason LX553. It is oval, 66" by 36". I got the whirlpool without the microsilk or air masseur. I just wanted to mention it because I really like this tub. The shape is extremely comfortable (I am 5' 7" and, let's just say, not as svelte as I used to be). I sometimes have lumbar back issues, and I wanted to get a tub that specifically has jets to that area. This tub is perfect for that. Also, it is pretty quiet and doesn't splash much. The jets feel like a soothing but not pounding massage. This tub is also perfect for reading in. This information doesn't help you with the microsilk vs. air masseur issue, but I thought it might help to describe how comfortable the tub design is. I don't think that this drop-in tub is as gorgeous as some of the freestanding ones, but for me it was the perfect compromise of looks and function.
terri, that's interesting. I didn't mention it because I thought it might sound gross, but when DH and I had just our hands in the demo basin, after we were done, I saw something floating in the water as well as the ring around the edges. DH had a piece of loose skin float off, so I can see how the burn unit could use the Microsilk to both help lift off damaged skin and to get oxygen to the new skin for healing. If it lifts out dirt and impurities that well, it probably helps reduce the risk of infection too. They can probably make any kind of tub and fit it with the Microsilk. The tubs used to have two jets and I have been told the newer ones are shipping out with just one jet.
I have heard in the past that if you get a physician to prescribe something for medical purposes (I was told with a new mattress) that your insurance probably won't pay for it, but that you might be be able to get a sales tax exemption. That may vary by state, and I didn't do it with the mattress, but if that is a possibility for anyone, it might help make the bottom line more affordable. Those with chronic skin conditions might be able to get medical insurance to help cover the cost of even the Microsilk -- and it sounds like that is the market they are going after. I just wish they would start selling enough of them to get the cost for homeowners down. Oh -- I did see that they are putting Microsilk into the Integrity line of tubs and they are less expensive. I think the reason I wasn't sure about that was the depth of the tub.....It's been a while since I looked at all that.
thanks astrid, I think we will have a drop in too, not a stand-alone as I want to build in some shelves / niche alongside, and behind it will be wall for shower. Yes they are beautiful but I don't have that kind of space. Thanks for the information/reassurance on the tub design. One local distributor carries Bain Ultra and the Jason, and recommends the Jason. I haven't made it down yet to test the Microsilk.
Lascatx, I will check out the state exemptions. I have rosacea but I doubt they provide any tax breaks here. I've gone to the dermatologist for years, thankfully mine is not too bad but it's on medical record.
Any opinions on undermount vs. deck mount?
I have rosacea too, but not that bad. Wasn't even thinking of that myself -- wonder if they have any history with that.
I plan to undermount. We both wanted a freestanding tub and while you can get jets in some of them, you cannot get the Microsilk in any of them. If we only get jets, I would still have to get comfortable with cleaning around and behind one in our layout.
I think I will be just as happy with the clean lines of an undermount and some space for bath items around the tub. I think it is also safer for aging in place. They say it is recommended to sit on the edge of a tub and swing your legs in or out. Who wants to sit on the raised lip of the tub? The undermount gives you a flush surface that you can sit on -- whether for getting in and out, pedicures or whatever. I have loved my undermounted sinks in the kitchen --- think it's the way to go for my tub too.
Here is a pic of my Jason, air masseur, Forma 36 x 66 under mounted. I had to think about it for a while if I wanted to see the drop in lip or not because it is a pretty tub. I was afraid of the caulk getting darkened down the road with the drop in and I wanted to enjoy looking at all the marble. What should have been done to make it easier to get over it was to put more decking in the back under the window and less in front to climb over but that would have taken inches away from the walk in shower which shares the deck. Its always a give and take.
I think we will undermount too. I have undermount kitchen sink, so easy to clean the counter without negotiating the lip. Agree with you, lascatx, about the edge being more comfortable to sit on. One of the dealers did tell us to drill the faucet holes into the surround (tile/granite) and not the tub lip if possible. Maybe you can try the microsilk wand on the face and see if it helps rosacea? I get zapped at the dr. every so often with IPL. Mine is just a redness but irritating, no makeup covers it completely. The IPL makes me feel like I'm getting tazered, lol.
Sofla, I love the looks of yours and the placement of the faucetry. What brand/style is that? I think my husband has chosen something similar from the photos he had downloaded.
I got to use a demo Microsilk unit today. I don't know that the skin on one arm is any softer than the other, although a small scratch appears better. The salesperson mentioned they now have the wand for facial use - for anti-aging - good lord, I should just immerse myself in it if that is the case, for weeks! LOL. I want hubby to try it when they get the unit up and running at home, if he's not sold I will just stick with the air masseur vs. the combo. I can see it has potential but after 10 min I did not see a difference that lasted all day. The demo unit has two jets and definitely, the water is very cloudy from the bubbles. Once it is turned off the bubbles dissapate rapidly. Apparently the energy put out to create the bubbles also warms the water, the salesperson mentioned the demo getting hot at a product show as it was running so long. Could also be the pump was overworked and heated the unit, LOL!
Lascatx, did you use the integrated lateral skirt panel on your Jason install or did you tile it into place and create an access panel? Our architect wants me to use the lateral skirt but I still think I like the tile look better (like Sofla's). Mine will have a niche/shelf on the left and the shower wall on the right, so the only access panel would be created within the niche wall. Then I could only choose air or MS, not both, and the undermount wouldn't be a "full undermount".
To be honest, we haven't done anything. Other things have taken priority even with the tub out of commission. My expectation has been to tile, but I'm not certain.
Do you have the option of installing a remote blower so you only need access at the tub for the MS? That's probably going to be the only way we can get both features adn I hope it works.
will have to check on the remote blower. I understand it can be mounted in the ceiling, and the contractor already thinks I'm slightly crazy so I haven't mentioned it yet. The local vendor who found his demo unit has sent it home with an employee to test on a skin issue, so I may hear yet more on the MS benefit.
update on MS, the vendor reports someone used the demo to test it on eczema, and it was helpful. Lascatx, our vendor who sells the tub seems to think we will have room at one end for both the air pump and the MS. If I commit he will look up the requirement. The closet is also close to tub so perhaps I could install there if necessary.
Sofla, when you undermounted, did your Jason have the cleaning plug on the top edge? The pictures in the manual have that cleaning port but I'm not sure if it is standard on the air tubs, or a whirlpool tub feature. Although, we might just do drop in in the event it has to be changed out in future, so that the granite top won't have to be removed in the process. DH does not really want to see a cleaning port on the edge.
Are you referring to the capped input for the cleaning solution? You can decide where you want to drill for it within reason considering the length of the tube/hose underneath.
I had not known I had to make that decision when I bought the tub. If you scroll up to my picture it is located on top deck right corner. You can't really see it in the picture as it is a white cap and my marble is white. I chose that spot because I had a small chip in the marble that I couldn't see but felt, so we drilled through it and put the cap there. I would have put the cap in the front corner between the faucet and the handheld because the hose would be right under and direct to the tub, where I have it installed now the fluid and flush have to go across the tub and up into the tub. Not the most direct route which I didn't think of when I told him to drill where the chip is. I agree with your husband the cap is white and won't look good on a dark stone deck. You can probably install on side of tub, front top where it is only seen from inside tub??
yes, exactly - it is the cleaning solution input. I ddin't think about having to drill through the granite. I can't see it in your photo but makes sense, your marble would not show it. We are going to use a brownish granite. How big is the hole you have to drill? Not sure I can put on side of tub. LOL it would be nice if the tub vendors would point out these things instead of us being "surprised" but in most cases it seems I have researched more than the vendor knows.
The hole isn't that big maybe an inch, but the cap is meaty. It does not snap on it twists(screws) on. I never knew about it. Did not see it in the manual, pictures, and was not installed in the one in showroom. I had to call the fabricator back to drill the hole. I think you can put it on the inside of the tub on the upper side because the cap screws on and won't fall off, that way you won't have to drill in the stone.
thanks Sofla, I will investigate for sure. I finally reached lascatx's contact (time zone changes) and she thought maybe you could order one without - just specify on order. Do you even use the cleaner? I guess they did not figure on undermounts during their design phase at the factory. I am still leaning toward drop in if I can eek out enough inches to sit on the granite top, just in case anything every requires replacement (tub itself). Although, I do prefer the undermount look.
The hole is shown on the diagrams on the Jason website, but they don't really call attention to it and in some of the brochure photos, you can see a small black dot which is the hole.
She also mentioned the new models coming from factory now do not require remote location for blower, but you have to specify on the order. I plan to call Jason Int'l again tomorrow with fresh questions. Getting closer to purchase! Are you enjoying yours? Does the water stay warm when you run the air masseur?
Thanks again so much!
I'm enjoying the bath very much. The water stays warm throughout, but I'm only in it for about 30min. Under the available add-ons there is a mechanism you can purchase that attaches to the pump to keep water heated. This was not brought to my attention at the time of purchase so I did not order it. The first time I used the tub I ran too much hot water, as my old tub didn't maintain heat long, but w this tub I run half cold half hot and its holds the temp for as long as I'm in the tub. You can feel cooler water where the air jets blow the water out so if you are starting with cool water, it would get cold faster. Would depend how much extra the option is and how long you soak.
I have not cleaned the tub yet with the solution. I should. Says 90 days. I'll look into this weekend. I did not purchase the expensive pillow, figure if I needed one could purchase cheaper at bed/bath. I don't seem to need one. I did purchase the grab bar. I have not needed to use it except to place a wash cloth on it, but thought in my old age or if I had an injury or something might need it in future. I noticed that the tubs come in different colors so perhaps the cap of the cleaning input would come in the brown you desire, or spray paint the cap with the krylon to match?
Good idea on the paint, if we go ahead and undermount. Simple fix. it would be nice if they knew their products, right!! You're right, it does not show in the showroom photo you posted. I wonder if it can be option, if water doesn't go in why is the cleaner necessary? I will inquire about the heater, I figure 30 min is sufficient as I won't have time to soak for hours. I have advised sales rep I want one handle. Waiting on new pricing as they had it priced as alcove not drop in.
I had forgotten I posted a pic from the showroom above. If you go to that pic you do see the cap to the right of the grab bar. It is mounted on the side. If you mount it on the other side you wouldn't see it at all standing outside tub.
The cleaner instructions are vague. The manual says to fill water above the air jets then follow directions on bottle. The bottle says to put the 16oz, entire bottle , into bath water. Run jets and it will self clean. According to bottle you are just pouring into the water and not into the input through the jets. Ask your rep about this. Mine told me it goes into the input and follow directions on bottle however its not what bottle says. The purpose would be to clean the air jets where the human cannot, but it is not clearly stated, although common sense is saying pour it in the input.
Ok, I see it now!! Pouring the cleaner into the tub water would only make sense for the whirlpool type, not the air jets. Otherwise the whole issue of the puka for the cleaner is moot if you aren't supposed to pour it in there!! Who writes these directions, anyways!! Lol
Had a feeling I needed to come check what was happening. I thought I had done a lot of research and I don't remember a cleaner cap! I would rather not have that on the deck if we undermount, and I think I really want the undermount. I hear your reservations, Divotdiva, but the tub that's here is over 20 years old. I figure that we will have better access and a better quality tub. If we get a lemon, we should know it pretty quickly, Otherwise, I don't expect to ever have to replace that sucker. I'm also planning on my deck to be white marble or a look alike -- not a color that could be hard to match,
I am missing my tub and am anxious to get the redo started again.. I have had to replace my fridge drawers and the entire HAVC system in our house since we left off. The boys are home from school and I have so much I need to be doing for a couple of school groups, a friend, my dad -- I'm overwhelmed, but I need to get back into it or I will lose all momentum.
I need to start talking to contractors and that's where I really hate it all anyway. I've done my research, gotten referrals and still gotten burned before. It makes you not want to have anything to do with it all again. It's very easy for me to stall at this point, so I may need some inspiration and camaraderie here. I am very happy with the AC work so far, so maybe my luck is turning.
Ok, pulled the trigger today and ordered the air masseur with Microsilk. Distributor also agrees with lascatx and thinks undermount will look better. He has to ask the factory some questions, wil get back to me tomorrow on plug placement etc.
Sofla, I think the add on heater unit is only for the whirlpool models because the water cools faster with those. Yours is air tub, so don't think you missed out on anything.
2-3 weeks out before I see it, but no hurry as project won't start till mid to late Aug.
Thanks for the info. I will have to try to be sure to remember that. I am SO jealous!!! I am president of one booster group and VP of another and we're all getting ready for back to school right now. By the time we catch our breathe, band will be in marching/football season and it just gets busier until Nov. I'm wondering if there is anyway to consider getting things started until spring or even summer. I'm going to try.
Also, I agree that from all I read, the heater was for the whirlpool because it does cool off more with all that air.
Well the tub has hit the island last week, but it's still at the local warehouse. It did take about 3 weeks to get here. Will see if we pick it up this week or leave it there, stored, for a little longer. Curious to see it in real life and if the kit has been included to move the cleaning port. I won't be installing it for a while. Project still held up at permitting office.
Look forward to your reports. My mom fell and broke her hip during the worst possible week and it's been crazier ever since. I want my tub more than ever, but I'm further away from getting it. After all this, I'm not worried about treating myself -- just figuring out how to do it. I suppose that is a silver lining of sorts. ;-)
Well, tub still at local warehouse but will pick it up soon - maybe next week to get it out of their way. Permit finally issued and the digging commenced today! Yes, over 5 months from my initial question. Still a long ways to actually installing and using the Jason!
We are considering Microsilk tub in new master bath and wondering about people's experiences with skin, installation, upkeep..
. divot diva & lascatx, have either of you installed your microsilk tub yet? We tried the demo mini-tub and seem to see less wrinkles in immersed hand vs. non-immersed even after a couple of days but it looks too good to be true so we're doing more consumer research.
sorry I don't read forum daily so I missed your question. My tub is currently sitting in my living room awaiting installation. Painters arrive Tues and hopefully tub goes in after that - maybe can use by mid to late Feb. Our project didn't get started until Oct due to permitting
Two weeks ago, we purchased, and had installed, a Jason LC 635 w/ MicroSilk® and AirMasseur®. We also looked at the BainUltra® tubs. We were just about to order the BainUltra® when we began reading (and hearing) more about the Jason MicroSilk® feature. We are very happy we went with the Jason tub as, after two weeks, there is NO DOUBT that our skin is softer. This is, especially, a big deal for me in that I'm a Type 1 diabetic and dry skin goes with the territory. Living in sunny Colorado at an elevation in excess of 6,200' can also reek havoc on one's skin. So, my wife and I are thrilled with the tub!
that is good news Irishman!! Hope it helps with circulation! Lascatx and anyone else buying these Jasons, when you place the order for undermount, the factory will send an accessory kit with the tub along with instructions where and how to drill for the cleaning port. I did not find mine right away, but the instructions were inside the pouch with the warranty and installation info, not in the accessory box. The box just says "accessory box" and I had to call the factory to figure out where the parts for the port were.
Make sure to determine if you want the little grab handle(s) inside or not too.
Sofla - - nope, it's still sitting in my living room covered with drop cloths. But I can see a pinpoint of light at the end of the renovation tunnel.....the whole project got delayed for months at the city permitting office, just got underway mid Oct. On the up side I didn't have to do any entertaining over the holidays. Contractor plans tiling to start last week of Jan so tub should be set in place sometime next week. Glad to hear you are enjoying your tub, I will be looking forward to a long soak!
Hi! I'm just starting to look at tubs. Thanks for all of the helpful info above. For those who have a MicroSilk tub with AirMasseur did you opt for undermount simply because you didn't have enough room to hide some of the equipment or is such a combination unavailable? If it is available, do you have any specific lines/model #s you could mention? I glanced through the website but there was not filter for "free standing" so I just went quickly by the visuals and found some free-standing Formas but they didn't have AirMasseur
I have enough room to undermount and hide the pumps. I planned out the tub area to place the pumps on one end with an access panel. I plan to have a free-standing cabinet in that area that can be moved away from the panel should access be required.
I worried about doing it as an undermount, because if something goes wrong we'll have to remove the granite to move the tub. But, I like the look better. Many GardenWeb folks here on this forum also led me to that decision. The tub store AND our tile guy both recommend undermount for the finished look, and our GC.
Maybe the free standing tubs don't have AirMasseur because there is no place to hide the pumps? You can hide them with a drop in too.
Considering purchasing Microsilk and wanted to ask about your experience. Do you see effect of MS therapy? If you use it regularly and see benefits to your skin, what happens to the skin if you are away from home for a couple of weeks and don't take Microsilk therapy? Does skin get drier than before you used MS? (The more I use moisturizing cream the drier my skin gets, and I was wondering if there would be same effect here). What are the pros and cons? I am considering MS-Air combo. Any advise would be appreciated.
FWIW -- In the reliability department: I have a 14-year old Bain Ultra that is like new. Zero problems. I'm also glad I sat in one in a showroom to get the right size for *me*. (DH only showers.) I'd be drowning in a too-big air jet tub. I'm 5' 6", so I think any future owner would be OK with this size.
chisu, what model and what size did you get? I am planning on getting the Thalassa 55 which is 66 X 33. The one I had planned on getting was the Oval Plus 66 X 38, surprisingly, the Thalassa is actually wider on the interior by 1/8"! It is really important to try them on! I will go back and retry them before I put down my deposit, but going through the catalogue I was able to research all the minute details and changed my mind when I realized I could save some valuable floor space, AND save almost $2000!
Lascatx, I neglected to ask how your mom is doing after her fall?
Here is my latest update re: the Jason. It is now installed and has been plumbed and tested. The MS motor is a bit loud, I could hear it all the way down the hall, but then again it has not been closed up in its little alcove under the tub, the access is still open. The air blower was tested on a separate day. The air jets on full power appear to put out a lot of motion, much more than I expected! It has a boiling type of motion. After it is turned off, the light on the power switch blinks about 15 minutes, then the dry/purge system engages and blows out any water sitting in the air jets. This is supposed to run automatically every time the tub is drained, for 2 minutes. You don't just turn this purge on by itself. It's a big WOOSH and it blows everything out.
I did go with undermount and now discussing the tile-in of the access to the faucet. The panel for the motors is on a different side. I found this link that may be helpful to those wanting to have a tiled-in look. Maybe Mongoct or some of the other experts on here have had experience with these. My tile guy is just going to grout ours in, he looked this option over but didn't seem to think it the best option.
Here is a link that might be useful: Schuler Tiled In Access Panel
Interesting. And I'm envious. I still want one.
We did see the air function and I would call it a rolling boil too. Did not see the purge function in action, but I have wondered about that. Did you have the tub full of water with the MS test? We were told with one tub that the partial fill would make it louder, so that could have an impact as well as the open access panel. I wouldn't grout the access panel in. Not sure why your tile guy doesn't like that linked treatment -- looks like it is just magnetic touch latches. Seems pretty easy to me and I'll try to remember that for ours. I've been trying to decide between tile and wood panel.
Thanks for asking about my mom. Didn't realize how long it had been. There are reasons we've been on hold -- and why I really wanted/needed a good soaking tub. My mom passed early in the morning after Thanksgiving while my dad was in the hospital with pneumonia and congestive heart failure -- result of COPD and not using oxygen he was told he should (he says he wasn't told that and then still won't use it). A lot of other drama, but that was the finale. Dad has done okay until this last week or so. If he follows his pattern, we'll be headed to the ER again before too long. I don't really have any hope of getting our bathroom done before our youngest is off to college in the fall. It's the shower until then,
Let me know how you like the tub in full use. Hope you post photos.
Sorry to hear about your mom. So difficult to go through that and then to convince your dad to take car of himself.
The tile guy is a perfectionist and doesn't like "matching silicone" because he says it never matches exactly. Of course if I have to pull it out and regrout in the future, that won't be a perfect match either so today I may approach the other guy working with him. But to me it looks like a feasible solution especially for a smaller access. It is just magnets and I may stop by Lowe's and see if they have them in stock just to satisfy my curiosity.
The tub was mostly filled for the MS test. The test tub in the show room was small and I don't recall it being that loud.
Dad surprised me and called me and then made an appointment with his doctor early enough to avoid the ER. He did have pneumonia again, but pretty early. I think he caught it just in time because he was having chills when I took him his antibiotic prescription. Another bullet dodged.
Is your tile guy planning on sealing with silicone? I wouldn't. If it's on the side, it's not likely that water getting in would be an issue. Is the placement where it is fairly prominent in the room -- enough that a slight gap in the grout lines would be noticeable? Even so, I think I'd get crafty with a backer board cut to be snug and applying grout along the edges. Or what about something like a felt or vinyl "weather" strip along the back side? Can't be too much or too stiff or removing the panel could be made difficult.
You may already have it figured out -- hope it's going well and the tub is quieter when done.
No he's not sealing with silicone. He will grout it. He has a lot of stories about tearing out bad work done by others. The Schluter panel recommends using a matching silicone (color matched to the grout used in the rest of the bath) to install a panel with the magnets, that's what he doesn't like.
Almost done with the tiling - a few more days I suppose as they still have the powder room to do.
I'll be honest -- I just looked at the picture and saw the magnets. I wonder if you'd need the silicone too. Well, when we get to doing ours, I will make sure I add a couple sq ft of tile so we can try it and redo it if necessary.
Now the powder room is the one bath we have completely redone. :-)
This post was edited by lascatx on Sat, Feb 22, 14 at 17:07
The silicone is used to provide the "appearance" of it being grouted in place, when it's not. This application is not recommended for large tiles like mine, they say to use more magnets to hold the tile panel in place. Can't you picture the dog (toy breed) walking past and the magnets pulling at his collar until he is fastened to the tile, LOL.
Anyways looks like it's out for me and will just have to tear out the piece if that day ever comes. I will store a couple of extra tiles inside the tub enclosure.
LOL on the new dog exerciser. The only reason we had to access under our tub until this leak occurred (more than 20 years after the house was built was when the tubing on the air switch came loose. As far as we know, that took something like 12-15 years to happen. You've tested everything out -- you should be good for a decade or two. Hope so.
As a belated answer to the 2/9/14 post by Alex 9876, I will say that I have been averaging two baths/week with the Microsilk and all the former skin dryness I had is long gone. I haven't "tested" how long I can go without the Microsilk before the dryness returns, but I do not find that the more I use it, the more frequently I need it. We have the Microsilk/AirMasseur combo tub, but rarely use the latter feature...the Microsilk is the key for us!
thanks Irishman! Hopefully Alex9876 sees this. I will likely use the MS option more too. Did you also buy the wand for face/scalp?
Lascatx, what the guys finally did was to use regular mortar to attach all the tiles to the backboard except the one by the faucets. They attached that one with silicone, and then instead of grout they used the "matching silicone" to fill in all between all the tiles on the side of the tub, so they all match but it looks like grout. It's not likely to get wet there anyways. Then if there is ever a reason to get behind the panel, you cut through the silicone and pull out the one large tile (12x24). I also have a few extra tiles in case it would be dropped or broken.
Am going to also create a new post, but had to chime in here. Just got back from looking at hot tubs...(plans are to replace our current 15 year old one), and as I was leaving one showroom, saw a sign advertising Microsilk...long story short, ended up going into the yard behind the warehouse where they have a bathtub sized hot tub with the MS that the owner (who has terrible exema) has been using for 20 min several times a week. He says it has made a huge difference to his legs, which supposedly were almost raw when he started. I stuck my arm in there for several minutes, it definitely feels smoother. As I type and caress my arm it feels like I have put lotion on it, and I swear that hand looks less wrinkled.
Now, I am thinking maybe I should go for the MS option in my hot tub, just wondering if anyone here has done that?
I strongly recommend you go with the bain ultra. The customer service w/ Jason International is worse than appalling. I purchased the microsilk tub and after a month of use, it started to leak. They were non-responsive to initial calls and when they finally followed up and sent a technician, they flatly refused to cover the damage caused by the tub and simply replaced the faulty part. Having to cut into the wall to gain access to the tube that was leaking or re plaster/paint the ceiling the water soaked through were left to me. Who cares about microsilk vs bain ultra. They're the same and bain ultra has much better customer service from what I hear (esp from my contractor who deals with them regularly). Whatever you do, avoid Jason International products.
I find the above post from naima70 a bit disconcerting in that it doesn't speak about the installation of the tub and the possible problems related to that installation. Whenever I read absolutes like "worse than appalling," I become a little suspicious. As to "who cares about microsilk...I care because, as a Type 1 diabetic, it has done wonders for my dry skin. Jason International has been very responsive to our queries and we could not be happier with the tub! I'm sure Bain Ultra products are very good (we thought so when we were making our decision), but praising their service without ever having experienced it is a bit over the top.
I have a Bain Ultra jet tub -- drop in -- installed in 2001. Never a single problem. Sorry, I can't speak to any 'wonders' it's done for my skin! It just works perfectly, is a breeze to clean, and I can easily get in and out of it. I probably use it once a week. It's 'just my size', fills in a few minutes. (DH uses only the shower.) I almost never use the whirlpool tub in our guest bath, which takes ages to fill -- and I fear problems with the jets.
I support naima70 comment about poor customer service of Jason. Specifically, I had to deal with Robert (can't speak about others). Even people from the store through which I purchased the tub were embarrassed about Jason's service. I just hope I will not need to deal with them and I just recently installed the tub.
I haven't been on line on this site for a while and now find it merged with Houzz. Not too long after install and finishing our bath, the MS would not operate. Only the air. The instructions state the infrared on the MS has to be in line with the "brain" so the signal can't be blocked. Otherwise the MS won't switch on. Moved the MS unit around hoping to get the infrared to work: sometimes it did, then would quit again. After calling back the plumbers, moving the pump around, and speaking to Jason on the phone, it was determined that they needed to send a jumper which disconnects the little dot on the side of the tub from signaling the MS unit that sufficient water levels are in the tub. First time, the jumper wire never materialized via air mail. 3 weeks later, I called again, they send another which arrived, I installed it myself. It just clips onto the unit where all the wires go - including the air module.
Jason said the new tubs - manufactured conveniently a month or so after mine shipped - have already had this bypassed. Any tub built with MS before around Aug 2014 probably needs the jumper.
So far it still works. I don't use it a lot because the tub requires a lot of water and for some reason other members of my household want to take hot showers. The pump also needs to be relocated and screwed into a new spot under the framing so it does not vibrate - it is very loud. Originally it was OK but it was unscrewed from the framing to get the infrared working. It's on my hubby's to-do list.
Otherwise I do like the tub and features. The MS does seem to soften the skin.
By the way "mrswv" and Divot Diva one and the same. I guess Houzz uses my name from their site.


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- Outsole: Durable XDR outsole in a modified herringbone tread pattern for traction on all court surfaces. Flex grooves for improved comfort and proper foot flexion.
- Weight: 12.5 ounces (size 8.5)
- Color: Obsidian / Berry
|Pros Endorsing This Shoe
Serena Williams
|Nike Sale Women's Tennis Shoes


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Rittal Liquid Cooling Package - LCP DX
Rittal Liquid Cooling Package has been conferred the honor recognition title for Data Center Cooling [Large Enterprise / SME] by CIO CHOICE 2014.
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Posts tagged protein powder
Isopure's 'Props to Your Body' Challenge
Never head of Isopure? If you own a gym membership (or ever thought about owing one) it's about time you did. Isopure is a clear, yummy 100% whey protein isolate. Yeah, we'd never heard of whey protein isolates either. Basically, it's a tasty, fruity pre- or post-workout drink that will give you the edge on achieving your fittest figure ever.
This October Isopure is launching their "Props to your body" Facebook challenge . This campaign recognizes those who are dedicated to getting their body in gear durring the holiday season — from powering through a marathon to completing a first pull up or joining a gym after having a baby.
Starting on October 6th, you can enter by liking Isopure on Facebook and posting a comment on why you're giving props to your bod, illustrating the post with a personal video and/or picture.
Each week Isopure will select one winner to score some Isopure swag and earn a place in Isopure's "Props Hall of Fame." The top 6 winners will move on to the championship round, where the fans and the entire Isopure crew will vote on a grand prize winner who will take home a year's supply of protein powder and other fun gear worth a $1,000!
The challenge runs from October to early December. Check out Isopure's Facebook page for more details.
Oct 11th


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Spiral Knights
Spiral Knights Overview
Spiral Knights is a cooperative dungeon crawler fantasy MMORPG. Players begin as a simple knight, and jump into action immediately with an ever-changing, randomized world known as the Clockworks. Players can influence the areas they enter by depositing different minerals into the gates before they open. As players level up, they can upgrade their equipment or craft new items; the level of a player's equipment also determines what level they are. The game is multi-player, always ensuring that players enter into dungeons together to explore. Battle sprites are also available as a companion for players, adding extra skills and damage in battle.
Spiral Knights Screenshots
Spiral Knights Featured Video
Spiral Knights Review
Updated Look By Michael Sagoe (mikedot), OnRPG Journalist
It's time to head back into the subterranean world of ClockWorks for an updated look at Spiral Knights, a 3D Action MORPG created by Three Rings Design (a developer best known for their original breakout title Puzzle Pirates). Spiral Knights has been around since 2010 as a F2P title featuring "Legend of Zelda" style dungeon crawling, multiplayer co-op action, and an ever-changing world based on player contributions.
Since then, the game has gone through some hearty changes, including its availability on Valve's Steam service; it was one of the first titles to be included in Valve's item trading system. Most recently, they have removed the dreaded elevator fees that were required in order to explore deeper into the world, so now players will now be able to play as long as they want. Will this change be enough to warrant coming back to Spiral Knights?
Now the core gameplay for Spiral Knights hasn't changed much: players can enter the Clockworks solo or join up with three other players. The option to join open parties is still possible, as well as the option to drop in and out of dungeons at the end of each run. Players will have to slash, shoot and bomb their way through over four different gates with three tiers of difficulty. Using the keyboard for movement and power ups, and the mouse for aiming and attacking, the battle system remains quick and easy for anyone to pick up and play, but sadly does not allow for solid gamepad usage.
The main premise of Spiral Knights is still all about finding loot, crafting powerful gear and exploring down into the Clockworks in order to reach the mysterious core of the planet. That much hasn't changed, but what has changed is the inclusion of quests and missions to help give players a sense of direction. Now players can ease their way into the deeper tiers while getting (somewhat) properly equipped in the process. There's also a quest dialog that comes with these missions, but they certainly won't be pulling players in with any gripping storylines.
While the core gameplay is still enjoyable, repetition is still issue, and it sets in quickly. The feeling of exploring the Clockworks wears off in the later levels due how frequently the game recycles map layouts. It's hard to not feel a bit of déjà vu when trekking through a dungeon that has a similar layout to a dungeon that was completed four stages ago, but has a new tileset thrown over it.
It certainly doesn't help that most dungeons are as difficult as simply clearing out rooms of enemies, and the fact that most puzzles are as simple as flipping a switch… literally. Personally, I would have liked to have seen more puzzles that require timing and coordination with party members, but understandably, the lack of these kinds of challenges was to keep the game solo friendly.
Still, Spiral Knights only stays solo friendly for so long, especially when reaching the deeper tiers of Clockworks, as the game starts to get a bit more relentless with enemies that hit like a truck. Of course, the game does feature armor, weapons, and other gear than can be purchased, crafted and upgraded to help you survive, but they only help so much. Sooner or later, you're going to have to gather some party members.
Danger rooms and boss battles are definitely the highlight of venturing into the dungeons. Entering a danger room will pit players against several waves of enemies, and boss battles offer a decent challenge with simple, but effective mechanics thrown in. The rewards for completion of these battles are usually a hefty amount of crowns (in-game currency), forge crystals, and rare materials for crafting. Unfortunately, the only way to enter danger rooms is by using "energy".
When elevator fees were removed, mist energy was also removed in the process, which means players can no longer gain free energy that replenishes itself every few hours. One way to earn energy is through exchanging them with crowns. While this sounds nice and fair, the prices for exchanging crowns for energy are fairly high, usually high enough to stay out of a pure F2P user's reach, so the only other option is to earn energy is buying purchasing with real money. While earning crowns gets much easier later on, it's a shame that pure F2P players will not be able to stock up without paying early on, especially since energy is also used for… well… just about everything else, including crafting and device activation for mecha knights and turrets. Even starting a guild requires energy.
Newly added to Spiral Knights was the inclusion of Battle Sprites, which are tiny little pets that can aid players in battle. The usefulness of these battle sprites, however, completely varies depending on which one the player chooses. The Drakon's primarily use is for offensive attacks, but its strength is sub-par until leveled up to a certain point, and the Maskeraith's abilities seem too situational. The Seraphynx on the other hand, while not having the best offensive attack, possesses great healing abilities, making it the most preferred battle sprite available.
The repetition from PvE can be tiresome, but this can be broken up through new PvP game modes. While the core combat for Spiral Knights seems like it would not be suited for any kind of multiplayer competition, PvP in Spiral Knights focuses on objective based game modes that involve a nice amount of strategy, including a capture & hold mode called Lockdown and bomb trapping mode called Blast Network that plays suspiciously like a game of "Bomberman". Lockdown manages to add some more variety by introducing changeable classes, including Strikers which can zip around the battlefield faster than other classes, Guardians which can protect themselves and their teammates with increased defenses, and Recons that can scan the field for enemy players while invisible. Each class serves a useful purpose and helps to create a more an engaging PvP experience.
The presentation of Spiral Knights still holds up well, with its colorful visuals and quirky music that harks back to 16-bit classic adventure games. The world still retains a lighthearted charm filled with creatures and monsters that seem to have lives of their own. Creatures such as the Gremlins and Fiends are always fun to deal with, especially since Gremlins always communicate with each other during a battle and Fiends usually have pit bosses always around, whose only job is to promote and demote the other fiends around him.
Overall: Great
With the addition of tons of new content, features and removal of elevator fees, Spiral Knights is a much more enjoyable game that it was so many years ago, with content and pacing that both casual and hardcore players can dedicate themselves too. The only real issue that can be found here is the excessive amount of repetition from dungeons and the lack of crystal availability for F2P users, but all of this can be overlooked regardless if a player wants to play for a few minutes or several hours, just as long as those players can pull some friends in or find some new ones along the way. With the game's community still as friendly as ever, that shouldn't be too much of a daunting task.
Original Review By, Jaime Skelton
Spiral Knights Review
Many games start with you crash landing on an unfamiliar planet, needing the help of new friends to survive. The struggle to exist in an unfamiliar land is a common trope in video games. Spiral Knights, developed by Three Rings (makers of Puzzle Pirates) and published by Sega, manages to pull it off with cute wit and style. Graphically similar to games such as Zodiac Online and Fairyland Online, Spiral Knights brings forth some interesting, unique game-play mechanics. These features set Spiral Knights above and beyond similar top-down MMORPGs.
Keep It Simple; Jump Right In!
Character creation may make the game seem fairly limited. There are only three helmet, three armor and five color schemes to choose from. There is no gender selection – one helmet does make you "female" by adding pigtail looking tufts. Outside of choosing a personal color and your name, that's all you're given. There are neither classes nor races to choose from in Spiral Knights. In fact, your character is defined solely by the equipment you use.
Once you've created a character, you'll find yourself near a crashed escape pod. The first few areas of the game teach you how to move, attack, change weapons, pick up objects, and how to handle certain enemy types. The controls are very simple to learn and understand. The game can be played with the mouse alone, as movement and combat are controlled with the left and right mouse buttons respectively, in the direction the cursor faces.
Into the Mist
The user interface itself is clean and out of the way. The upper left contains various game menus, including the main menu, the social menu and the uplink menu (the game's mail system). The top right hosts your mini-map, and also includes your character information, equipment arsenal, and crowns, the in-game currency. The bottom left houses the chat pane.
At the bottom right of the screen, your energy is shown. There are two types of energy in Spiral Knights: Mist and Crystal energy. Mist energy is the standard energy bar, while Crystal energy is additional energy purchased through the cash shop. You start with a maximum of 100 Mist energy. Adventuring in the Clockworks uses Mist energy to go down floors, use gates, activate friendly NPCs, and more. Once at zero energy, you'll be unable to advance, and must wait for your energy to replenish. It takes about 15 minutes to recharge one unit of energy, so expect to wait around 24 hours for energy to fully recharge.
Going Spelunking
After the tutorial quests that deliver you to Haven, the game's hub, Spiral Knights becomes open- ended. This can be a jarring experience. Your gameplay goal is to reach the core of the planet by getting to the deepest level (called stratum). Going deeper into the dungeon involves activating gates, which is done using minerals found while exploring, plus a small crown cost to access later strata. The minerals you use along with the time of day determines the stratum's theme, or the types of monsters you'll find. This system ensures gameplay varies from day to day.
Spiral Knights does require some social interaction. By default, entering the Clockworks will partner you with up to three other players. There are options for solo play, however, there are several advantages to traveling with other Knights. Minerals, Heat and crowns are all equally shared, not divided, across the party. There is also strategic value to multiple players in combat.
Experience – How It Work?
Spiral Knights does not feature a traditional character progression system. Characters do not level up; instead, a character's equipment gains experience, called Heat. Each piece of equipment can gain up to ten levels through gathering Heat. The game includes swords, guns, bombs, armor, helmets, and shields. Some pieces of equipment can be upgraded to the next tier once they are level ten, using crafting components found in the dungeons. There are also trinkets to equip, with various stats and abilities, though these do not grow in level. Leveling is on a curve; early levels are easier to gain, while later levels require higher amounts of Heat. However, it's never terribly daunting to get a piece of equipment to level ten, and unlike other MMOs, there is no risk of your equipment breaking through upgrades.
As you explore, you'll find crafting materials in addition to minerals. These materials can be used to create new equipment or upgrade existing pieces. Vendors sell random recipes throughout the day, and it can sometimes be difficult to obtain the recipe you need. The interface is fairly straightforward and intuitive, making it easy to make what you need and move on. It's made easier due to Alchemy Machines being found almost everywhere.
Friends and (future) Foes
Players can join guilds, which are a great way to gather groups for various adventures. In addition to their own special chat channel, guilds have the benefit of a guild hall, where guild members can craft and socialize. It takes 500 energy and 1000 crowns to start a guild, so some purchase of Crystal energy will be required.
PvP is currently disabled; however, there are plans to reintroduce it in the future – there is no known ETA when this will be. Battles will be four person free-for-all arenas with four tiers of combat. Each tier places various restrictions on equipment, except the top tier where anything goes. Each tier also will have progressively higher crowns cost to participate.
Final Verdict: Great
Spiral Knights is a whimsical, fun adventure into the unknown depths of a planet. The simple combat system, coupled with a vast array of equipment, is engaging enough to bring players back. The major downside of the game is the lack of in-game information, although the publisher maintains a wikia page. With the unique way dungeons are created with random elements ensures no two adventures are quite the same. With a positive grouping experience and friendly atmosphere, Spiral Knights offers a casual, drama-free gaming experience. Even hardcore gamers will find plenty of things they can do.
Spiral Knights Links
Spiral Knights System Requirements
Windows & Linux
- Windows XP, Vista or 7
- Java 1.5
- Display 1024×600
- 1.3 GHz processor
- Graphics: 64mb Video Memory. GeForce 5 series, ATI Radeon 8500. Latest video driver.
- Memory: 512mb for Windows XP or 1gb for Windows Vista/7
- 300MB Hard drive space
- Java 1.5
- Display 1024×600
- 1.3 GHz processor
- Graphics: 64MB Video Memory. GeForce 5 series, ATI 8500. Latest video driver.
- 1GB memory (1000MB)
- 300MB hard drive space
Spiral Knights Articles
- MMO Holiday Event Guide 2013 - Posted on December 5, 2013
A look at the events in MMOs this holiday season.
- Spiral Knights – Updated Look - Posted on November 22, 2013
Spiral Knights is now available on Valve's Steam service and the dreaded elevator fees are gone. Will this change be enough to warrant coming back to Spiral Knights?


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Well, how do you fare compared to the Zeitgeist?
Chat up your fellow wooters and let us know how lame this poll was or what obvious choices we missed.
For example: Was this poll a) STUPID, b) DUMB, c) POINTLESS or d) ALL OF THE ABOVE?
Red Red Wine by Neil Diamond
Spanish Red Wine by Ben Harper
That's all I can think of atm.
edit: Oh wait, Champagne Supernova by Oasis
Kisses Sweeter than Wine. Originally by the Weavers. I like the Jackson Browne and Bonnie Raitt version.
Lilac Wine - Jeff Buckley
Nights of Wine and Roses - Japandroids
Bottle of Wine - Tom Paxton
Red Red Wine - The Replacements
Red Red Wine - UB40
Whine Up - Kat DeLuna
..."fill it up with apple wine, I'll be chewin' on a honeysuckle wine...
A Bottle of Wine, and Patsy Cline - Marsha Thornton
God of Wine - Third Eye Blind
Lilac Wine - Nina Simone
Shal Marshall - Wine yuh Body
Amy Winehouse
Iron and Wine
Poison & Wine by The Civil Wars
Drinkin' Wine Spodee Odee
Bottle of Red (Brenda and Eddie)
Billy Joel
Old Dogs and Children and Watermelon Wine!
Sappy melodious and deserving of a nice soft light on the tannins wine to listen to!! However, NOT watermelon wine!
Spill The Wine - Eric Burdon & War
Bottle of Red Wine - Eric Clapton
Red Red Wine - UB40 version
Scenes from an Italian Restaurant - Billy Joel
Old Red Wine - The Who
Babylon Sisters - Steely Dan
Dust on the Bottle - David Lee Murphy
White wine in the sun: Tim Minchin
(ugh, a little disgusted with myself for thinking of this one, but here goes anyway...)
Deana Carter - Strawberry Wine
Amy Winehouse
Iron and Wine[/quote]
April Wine
Someone says wine and song in the same sentence, My mind always goes to Tiny Bubbles.
Never knew who sang it, but apparently it was Connie Francis.
All The Young Dudes - Bruce pencilenson version. It mentions wine.
Mexican Wine by Fountains of Wayne
stargzr051 wrote:Someone says wine and song in the same sentence, My mind always goes to Tiny Bubbles.
Never knew who sang it, but apparently it was Connie Francis.
But Don Ho made it famous
Summer Wine - The Corrs and Bono version is the one I know.
Also, Beastie Boys - Body Movin' -
"And like a bottle of Chateau Neuf Du Pap"
Billy Joel: "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant"
"Lilac Wine" by Jeff Buckley.
Also, "Mercy" by Widespread Panic.
The wine song by the cat empire
Anything by Pearl Jam, Oasis and Blink 182. What? Oh, sorry, I thought you said "Whine".
Gregory Alan Isakov – Dandelion Wine
Don Ho sang "Tiny Bubbles." It was his theme song.
Days of Wine and Roses - Andy Williams
"The Days of Wine and Roses" by The Dream Syndicate.
"Have a Drink on Me" by AC/DC
"Since I Started Drinkin' Again" by Dwight Yoakam
"Hotel California" by The Eagles
I have a few more to add...
Champagne High- Sister Hazel
and this next one mentions it in the first lines of the song.
Killer Queen- Queen.
Only the wine - David gray
Wine drinking anthem: Emmylou Harris, Two More Bottles of Wine
Its alright, cuz it's midnight, and I got two more bottles of wine!
Women, Wine & Song - Umphrey's McGee (great song w/ Huey Lewis)
Red Wine, Mistakes, Mythology - Jack Johnson
Whiskey & Wine - 311
Iron & Wine - Postal Service
And the most obvious...
Def Leppard - Me and My Wine!
I can'e belive there are A.....
that did this, gota be the wine and
"A Case of You" by Joni Mitchell
"Pastures of Plenty" by Woody Guthrie
You put da lime in the da coconut, drink a bowl up.
You put da lime in the da coconut,
drink a bowl up.
Matt Costa -- Whiskey and Wine


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Temporarily Out Of Stock
Item # AAS0038
Don't get too bummed. This item is on the way and will be available for purchase as soon as it rolls into the warehouse.
Can't wait? Consider one of the other Men's Short-Sleeve Base Layers we have in stock.
Assos summerInteractive Short Sleeve Base Layer $0.00
Layer up.
The Assos interActive Summer base layer is identical in every way to the Spring version with only one difference of note: Rather than being made from 190g interActive fabric, it's instead made from a 89g weight interActive to give it superior breathability for warmer temps. In addition, the Summer version comes with a rear mesh fabric panel to further enhance ventilation. Other than these distinctions, though, it's the same: You get the same 3-fiber yarn construction and "Push and Pull" moisture transfer, along with the AEPD II cut. Assos recommends using the interActive Summer base layer in a temperature range of 72 to 90 degrees. Available in sizes Small-TIR, in two colors -- Black and White.
One final note: Assos base layers are not specific to men or women. They are designed to be unisex.
Tech Specs
Reviews & Community
What do you think of the
Assos summerInteractive Short Sleeve Base Layer
? Share a...
Sean C
Great summer base layer
- Familiarity: I've used it once or twice and have initial impressions
Sizing seems quite good and has enough length on the body. I'm slim and 5'11" and usually sit between a small-med. But the small in this has good length.
The quality is great, as you would expect from Assos and wicks away the moisture to keep you cool.
Most excellent :)


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Fluid-Structure Interaction
This model demonstrates how to set up a fluid-structure interaction problem in COMSOL Multiphysics. It illustrates how fluid flow can deform solid structures and how to solve for the flow in a continuously deforming geometry. The Fluid-Structure Interaction (FSI) multiphysics interface combines fluid flow with solid mechanics to capture the interaction between the fluid and the solid structure. ...
Biased Resonator Models (3D)
An electrostatically actuated MEMS resonator is simulated in the time and frequency domains. The device is driven by an AC + DC bias voltage applied across a parallel plate capacitor. The dependence of the resonant frequency on DC bias is assessed, and frequency domain and transient analyses are performed to investigate the device performance.
Capacitive Pressure Sensor
A capacitive pressure sensor is simulated. This model shows how to simulate the response of the pressure sensor to an applied pressure, and also how to analyze the effects of packing induced stresses on the sensor performance.
Electrostatically Actuated Cantilever
The elastic cantilever beam is one of the elementary structures used in MEMS designs. This model shows the bending of a cantilever beam under an applied electrostatic load. The model solves the deformation of the beam under an applied voltage.
Two-port Piezoelectric SAW Device
This tutorial shows how to model surface acoustic waves in time domain. The 3D modeling geometry represents a 128 degree YX-cut lithium niobate substrate. The SAW device has two ports. The metallic electrodes are modeled as perfect conductors using boundary conditions. The geometric dimensions such as size of substrate, the gap between the ports and the number of inter-digitated electrodes (IDTs) ...
Computing Capacitance in a Comb Drive
Capacitive comb drives are commonly used both as actuators and position sensors. The following model focuses on position measurement. Many approaches exist for positional measurements with MEMS devices, of which capacitance measurement is the most widely used, particularly in micro-accelerometers. In a pair of interdigitated combs the fingers of one comb do not touch those of the other comb, ...
Piezoresistive Pressure Sensor
Piezoresistive pressure sensors were some of the first MEMS devices to be commercialized. Compared to capacitive pressure sensors, they are simpler to integrate with electronics, their response is more linear and they are inherently shielded from RF noise. They do, however, usually require more power during operation and the fundamental noise limits of the sensor are higher than their capacitive ...
Squeezed-Film Gas Damping in an Accelerometer
Squeezed-film gas damping is a critical aspect of many MEMS transducers and actuators. In accelerometers, for example, inertia produces a motion that the device detects. A typical structure connects a large proof mass to surrounding structures with elastic beams, which forms a mechanical oscillator with a specific resonance frequency. However, in accurate motion-detection applications these ...
Thermal Microactuator
This tutorial model of a two-hot-arm thermal actuator couples three different physics phenomena: electric current conduction, heat conduction with heat generation, and structural stresses and strains due to thermal expansion. In this model version, the geometry is parameterized so that the effect of varying the actuator's dimensions can be analyzed.
Piezoelectric Shear-Actuated Beam
The model performs a static analysis on a piezoelectric actuator based on the movement of a cantilever beam, using the Piezoelectric Devices predefined multiphysics interface. Inspired by work done by V. Piefort and A. Benjeddou, it models a sandwich beam using the shear mode of the piezoelectric material to deflect the tip.