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NJCubScouter commented07-08-2013, 04:56 PMEditing a commentOriginally posted by thomasjeffersonBut I cannot believe in a human-personified God because such myths and stories only make sense on a planet that exists alone in the universe. These myths were all conceived on a world that most believed to be the only world, with hell (lava) below and heaven (stars) above. In a galaxy with 200 billion stars and perhaps 1 billion habitable worlds, such a belief system is silly to me.
Because a God in charge of a Universe this size where another planet may be controlled by trisexual octopus like creatures with the ability to be spacecraft that go faster than light - that being isn't going to care about human homosexuality or humans worshipping images of other gods. Nor is it going to make ten commandments about mothers and fathers.Last edited by NJCubScouter; 07-08-2013, 04:57 PM. Reason: Eliminate extra white space
Seems that TJ (if he truly exists and is not some random bits projected on the internet in advance of a trisexual octupus-like exploitation of our blue orb) would be squarely in the non-religious/atheist camp. He makes it clear that he has no need to align himself with the powers of the universe. Any thing that is represented as a power is mere atoms just like the rest of us.
That is where my Buddhist atheist friends seem to distinguish themselves. They act in such a way that seems to be out of obligation to a higher order than the material world. -- Along the lines of NJ's thinking.
I have never conversed at length to any UUA's like DLWise describes himself. So I don't know how I would categorize that flavor, really. But then again, I am also told that systematic categories are just another artifact of Western civilization, so it may be a moot point.
07-08-2013, 08:53 PMEditing a commentQwazse, I think you'll find that every UU is unique in this particular aspect so don't expect, necessarily, to 'understand' TJ by meeting other UUs. Better to just work with TJ if you really want to figure out TJ. This probably applies to everyone else too, lol, IMHO.
And "they" say we don't need a "Faith and Chaplaincy " forummmmmmmmm.
Is the "Supernatural Ruling Entity of the universe" real or mythological? Depends on your attitude.
Is it a Deist type (set the rules and components of the universe in motion and stand back to watch) or a (don't have a title) activist God, who takes personal inerest in his creation? Or some sort of combination? Can't rescind the law of gravity , but maybe help a human along the way.... Can't prevent cancer if the certain conditions are met, but maybe help show the way to avoid breathing toluene and ammonia.
The recorded miracles of Jesus are part of how/why the Christian faiths were created. We don't have BIG miracles anymore to "prove" faith. Parting seas, raising the dead, curing deseases from a distance....
So we have to learn to recognize the "small" miracles. Some folks call these "coincidences", or "accidents". But they are the personal attention getters that fall across our path every so often.
People we meet, "just in the nick of time", who are just the right person to help at just the right moment. The tree that falls across your cars path, not hitting it, thus preventing you from driving into another problem you meet later. The right words that come to your lips , despite your not being prepared to speak on that subject. Remembering that odd piece of something that you saved for no good reason on the back of the top shelf that happens to be just the thing to fix the necessary part you need for that important project. That piece of broken rock that could have hit you , had you been a foot further along the sidewalk, but you hesitated to glance at the pretty flower. This is more than "not boarding the Titanic".
Recognizing the godspark can allow more to be recognized.
As Quakers, we meet in silence, allowing the Spirit to inspire us and (perhaps) speak the message given us. I participated in a workshop once on the subject of recognizing when to Speak in Meeting, and when to Wait. We recognized there are "symptoms" indicating a need to speak, sweaty palms, nervous feet, inability to sit still, an urgency to say ,,,,something. Sometimes the subject is not known until we stand and give voice to it. One of the older women in the workshop circle was seen to be crying as we discussed these "symptoms". She finally said she had experienced all of them at one time or another , over the years had successfully fought them down, and now they no longer occurred.
Look for and acknowledge the Small Miracles in your life.
I wonder why a non believer would want to join an organization of believers (in this case the Boy Scouts). I do not get it. The Boy Scouts are a private orginazation and as such have the right to dictate who can be a member. The Boy Scouts have that same right as other private organizations such as the NAACP, NRA, NOW, and the Catholic Church do. The NAACP can discriminate by refusing to accept a Klansman as a member. The Catholic Church discriminates against Jews when it requires priests to be Catholic. NOW would be correct in denying membership to George Bush a person who is not pro-choice. And the NRA discriminates by denying membership to President Obama who wants to ban the private ownership and use of guns.
The Boy Scouts as a private organization can have a good reason, bad reason, irrational reason, or any other reason in establishing membership criteria. Their reason can be one that you might not approve of but as a private orginazation it is their right to discriminate. I appose everything the Nazi Party of the United States stands for but they have a right to exist and they have a right to establish membership criteria. To be clear I am not comparing the Nazi Party to that of the Boy Scouts.
What is sad and to me it is anti-freedom to have those who oppose the Boy Scouts sue the Boy Scouts time and time again attempting to force them to take them in as a member. Atheists have no right to be a member of the Boy Scouts in the same way Jews have no right to be priests of the Catholic Church. Why is it anti-freedom for Atheists though the use of the courts to become a member of the Boy Scouts is because if this were to happen some court might require another private orginazation to accept as a member someone they do not want. The NAACP might be required to have a Klansman as a member. The NAACP might be required to operate their orginazation against their wishes. This has happened. In the 1950's legislators in the South passed laws requiring the NAACP to turn over their membership information to them. This was done so the police could harass and threaten the members and supporters of the NAACP. The US Supreme Court ruled the NAACP could not be required to give their membership information to government officials. They ruled such laws violated the 1st amendment.
Where do we get our rights. The founders believed we get our rights from God. In the Declaration of Independence Americans declared in 1776 that "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Those who signed the Declaration of Independence, and the people of the states they represented believed that fundamental truth.
Through out America's history the belief that God is our creator and the source of human rights has been acknowledged again and again. In 1781, Thomas Jefferson in his work titled, "Notes on the State of Virginia" wrote, "God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God."
Congress in September 25, 1789 approved a resolution calling on President Washington to proclaim a National Day of Thanksgiving for the people declaring, "A day of public Thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging . . . The many signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity to establish a Constitution of Government for their safety and happiness." This President Washington did so establishing the first Thanksgiving holiday under the US Constitution. In the proclamation given Washington thanked God for the recent victory over the British and helping establish a nation founded on the liberty of the people.
In 1863 President Lincoln in the Gettysburg Address said, ". . . that this Nation under God, shall have a new birth of freedom - and the Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not parish from the Earth."
In June 15, 1954 President Eisenhower signed into law that amended the Pledge of Allegiance to read, " . . . one Nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
The Boy Scouts in the oath referencing God attest to the basic fact that our rights come from God. You might not agree that our rights come from God but that is irrelevant because the historical fact is that Americans believe that our rights come from God that no government can take away.
What should Atheists do? First they and their supporters should leave the Boy Scouts alone. Secondly they can join another organization such as the 4H Club, the Boys Club, or Atheist United that will welcome them as members. They can form their own camping orginazation and set whatever membership criteria they want. They can get together with friends and go camping.
Finally I go back to the beginning, "Why would a non-believer want to join the Boy Scouts an organization of believers in God who do not want non-believers as members?"
Last edited by JoeC; 07-13-2013, 11:43 PM.
Merlyn_LeRoy commented07-14-2013, 12:39 AMEditing a commentWhat should Atheists do? First they and their supporters should leave the Boy Scouts alone.
Since atheists have first amendment rights, and since the BSA has been less than honest when excluding atheists, no.
07-15-2013, 05:10 AMEditing a commentWhen I was CM, doing the 'roundup' thing, there was absolutely no mention, whatsoever, by me or the other CM's present, or the DE, of anything about there being a religious requirement for membership. The only thing we talked about was all the fun the boys would have, with examples of the activities and sometimes even a few scouts present in uniform. We were recruiting. We weren't trying to polarize people by telling them right there that, "By the way, if you don't believe so-and-so you're not welcome as a member". So when you ask why someone would want to join a private religious organization if they didn't share those religious beliefs, in my experience it is because that recruiting process was deceptive and allowed people to remain ignorant of BSA's status as a private religious organization.
Years later when I asked him, the DE noted that it would have 'turned people off' if we had stood in front of those families and told them that we want them to consider joining BUT gay persons and atheists are not welcome. If we had then, as the DE went on to explain, we'd probably get fewer people to sign up. THAT, to me, is clearly a deception. And I think that provides part of the answer for the first sentence in your post.
Edit to add: I have several times over the years, offered the opinion that in those recruiting efforts, we should prominently and proudly proclaim that BSA is a private religious organization and that we reject gays and non-believers. That way the potential customers would know what the product really is...and the marketplace would take care of things.Last edited by packsaddle; 07-15-2013, 05:23 AM.
Why would anybody want to join the Boy Scouts? Think about it! Why would anybody want to join the Boy Scouts? In particular, why would any adult, especially a parent of a boy, want to join?
How's about because they believe in the principles and ideals of Scouting. Because they remember what they had themselves learned as Scouts (or the women vicariously through their brothers) and they want their own sons to learn the same things and to have the same experiences, so they join as well as volunteer leaders. Or because they loved the experience and want to continue in it, giving back to the movement.
That last category would include senior Scouts who age out at 18 and stay on in the troop as junior adult leaders. Or men and women whose own sons have aged out and remain active at the district and council level; our district had several such members of the "Goat Patrol". Or men who have no sons who want to continue on -- we have one such who was active in Venture Scouting and also volunteered to help with our troop.
The reason for joining Boy Scouts is Scouting! Why else would anyone join?
Originally posted by JoeCThe Boy Scouts as a private organization can have a good reason, bad reason, irrational reason, or any other reason in establishing membership criteria. Their reason can be one that you might not approve of but as a private orginazation it is their right to discriminate.
None of BSA's officially published policy gives any reason for excluding an atheist just for being an atheist. BSA has repeatedly claimed to have a rule that requires "belief in a Supreme Being" and insisting that that was the rule that required them "against their will" to exclude atheists. The problem is that that rule simply does not exist. Not only would such a rule directly conflict with officially published BSA policy, but it has even been officially denied:
1. In 1985 in the Paul Trout incident by CSE Ben Love and Relationships Division Director William McCleery III.
2. In a 21 December 1994 letter by Relations Division Director Larry Townsend.
3. In the Randall trial by Orange County Council SE Kent Gibbs when directly ordered by Judge Frazee to produce that "rule" that Gibbs kept going on about.
As a matter of fact, the entire reason for this topic is for me to ask whether anyone knows whether this "rule's" offical status has changed since circa 1998, when last I had checked.
Originally posted by JoeCThe founders believed we get our rights from God. In the Declaration of Independence. {etc}
You should also become familiar with Deism, which didsn't believe in a personal interactive god, but rather in a remote Prime Mover that had gotten the Universe started and then stood back to let it run. One term for this "Creator" was "the God of Nature" or "Nature's God" which had created the Laws of Nature. And certainly, that is the exact wording we find in the Declaration of Independence. You will also find it in Thomas Paine's The Age of Reason, in which Paine refuted Christianity, which he considered to be a form of atheism because it denied the true God of Nature in order to worship a man. There's even a conspiracy theory, like "who really wrote Shakespeare?", that Paine had ghost-written the Declaration, since it is so similar to his style. And I'm fairly certain that your sources consider Paine to be an atheist, but his beliefs weren't much different than other Deists', such as Jefferson and several other Founding Fathers.
Since you mistakenly find religious significance in the alteration of the Pledge, you should also read A Memorial and Remonstrance by James Madison, in which he described the need to separate government and religion a few years before he drafted the First Amendment. In it, he enumerates and demonstrates the detrimental effects on both government and religion when the two are allowed to co-mingle. And this has come to pass; in Supreme Court Justice Brennan's dissenting opinion in Lynch v. Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668 (1984):
Originally posted by Justic Brennan...I would suggest that such practices as the designation of "In God We Trust" as our national motto, or the references to God contained in the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag can best be understood, in Dean Rostow's apt phrase, as a form a "ceremonial deism," protected from Establishment Clause scrutiny chiefly because they have lost through rote repetition any significant religious content.
And that "any significant religious content" had been arrived at by "rote repetition". Gee, that sounds like "Duty to God" in the Scout Oath, doesn't it? Only officially published BSA policy does tell us what it means, that each member is to be attentive in the duties of his own religion. What does BSA require that duty to be? It doesn't! That is up to each member's own religious leaders and community. What does BSA define "God" to be? It doesn't, nor may it! That is up to each member's own religious leaders and community. What about "belief in God"? Not only does BSA not attempt to define it, but it doesn't even require it! Well, except for that fictitious non-rule that BSA keeps lying about.
All that BSA officially requires regarding religion is that definite attention be given to that aspect of one's life.
Originally posted by JoeCAtheists have no right to be a member of the Boy Scouts in the same way Jews have no right to be priests of the Catholic Church.
Of course, you may have difficulty doing that, besides for the obvious reason that it does not say it. That other difficulty would be just gaining access to the documents. Back around 1990, copies of BSA's Rules and Regulations and Bylaws were readily available for sale in the Scout Shop. But then BSA suddenly pulled them all off the shelves and restricted access to them on a need-to-know basis. Why? Because they started showing up in court in the hands of the victims of BSA discrimination. And because they clearly showed the courts that BSA was violating its own officially published rules, regulations, bylaws, and policies. Faced with the truth, BSA did what all liars do, which is to try to hide the truth.
Let me ask you a question. Both "A Scout is Reverent" and the description of "Duty to God" in the first Handbook require the scout to respect the convictions of others in matters of custom and religion. Obviously, a religious bigot cannot do that.
Why then would a religious bigot ever want to join the Boy Scouts? Especially since his beliefs are in direct opposition to the religious principles of BSA and of Scouting.
And, yes, I do fully realize that I'm yet again casting pearls before swine. My minister kept warning me about that, but here I go again.
JoeBob : "I wonder why a non believer would want to join an organization of believers (in this case the Boy Scouts). I do not get it. "
From what I see of members of the BSA I would hardly call us a group of "believers" like a church would be.. Perhaps some units tightly controlled by a religious organization who limit their units to members of their church, or insist on prayer and Sunday services.. But, the majority of groups that treat religious teachings as up to the parents and really don't deal with it, we are a group of believers and those who don't give it much thought except a fuzzy perhaps there is something..
Since BSA units are not 90% to 100% of prayer and Bible readings, but instead 90% to 99% of camping and fun, I get it..
Joe - If your unit it 90% to 100% religion centered, I feel sorry for the fun your kids are missing.
Since atheists have first amendment rights
Of course you and other atheists have the right to speak and criticize the Boy Scouts and I will defend that right. When I say "Leave us alone" I say to you, the parents of atheist children, the ACLU, NOW, Atheists United, and other liberal legal interest groups stop suing the Boy Scouts. School Districts, cities, states, and other government organizations stop the law suits! There have been law suits against the Boy scouts since the 1970's over the issue concerning membership. And the law suits continue. We are a private orginazation and we have the right to decide who we want in our organization. We have the right to establish membership criteria. You and other atheist have no right to be in the Boy Scouts. When I say "Leave us alone" I say stop attempting to join the Boy Scouts using force via the courts. It is anti-freedom.
and since the BSA has been less than honest when excluding atheists, no.
We have been very honest. Since the founding of the Boy Scouts of America there has been a reference to God in the Boy Scout oath. Since the 1950's when conducting a flag ceremony God has been referenced when Boy Scouts have recited the Pledge of Allegiance. And since the 1970's the Boy Scouts have been very clear in press releases, statements made by officers of the Boy Scouts, briefs given in the courtroom, and arguments given to the US Supreme Court that if you are an atheist you cannot be a member. How clearer than that can we be.
Pack, I agree. When son #1 was interested in cub scouts, the cubmaster tried to do just that in presenting the program to us parents. I'm pretty sure he was following his own script, not the districts. He went a little too far in describing BSA as a "Christian" organization. (My experiences as a scout -- especially at Jamboree -- showed me how diverse the organization was, so I knew he was being a bit narrow.) But, he was clear to point out that it welcomed boys of all religions and expected leaders to have some belief in God. His statement didn't offend away any parents in the room. And, even if a couple folks weren't the church-going type, I think they appreciated the disclosure.
He made no mention of homosexuality. Not because he was naive to it, but because it wasn't even on his radar considering the couples in the room and the age of youth he was dealing with.
For the Venturers (and older boys), I have encouraged them to read the fine print on the youth application ("reference" being one of the foundational steps of teaching any skill, especially scouting). They are more than welcome to ask questions. Some Christians do ask for clarification on how broad "non-sectarian" is. Generally I tell them "very broad" and that they might find themselves in the company of the kind of people Jesus would bunk with, so their parents probably would not approve. I've also made it clear that I have no intention of applying the "gay ban" to youth. So far, it hasn't scared any of them away. (On the other hand, the possibility of little Jenny being around boys with the prevailing orientation has been the occasional deal-breaker!)
Merlyn_LeRoy commented07-15-2013, 08:51 AMEditing a commentI say to you, the parents of atheist children, the ACLU, NOW, Atheists United, and other liberal legal interest groups stop suing the Boy Scouts
What lawsuits about membership requirements have been filed since Dale? I don't know of any.
School Districts, cities, states, and other government organizations stop the law suits
Any public school or school district that charters a BSA unit ought to be sued. But again, I don't know of any since the Dale decision. There was the 2005 letter from the Illinois ACLU threatening to sue if the BSA continued to charter discriminatory BSA units to public schools, but since the BSA pretty much stopped issuing charters to government entities after that, I don't know of any lawsuits.
There have been a few lawsuits post-Dale over special government deals that the BSA gets, because the government shouldn't take public tax money and spend it on an organization that discriminates on the basis of religion, as that's a first amendment issue.
And the law suits continue.
When I say "Leave us alone" I say stop attempting to join the Boy Scouts using force via the courts.
Which lawsuits? I'm serious, cite some actual recent lawsuits. I'm very up on atheist issues and I don't know of any.
We have been very honest
Nope, not when public schools were the #1 largest chartering partner while the BSA expected these public schools to exclude atheists. That's in violation of the constitution. Texas was the worst, with 25% of all cub scout packs chartered by public schools.
Originally posted by JoeCWe are a private orginazation and we have the right to decide who we want in our organization. We have the right to establish membership criteria.
The reason for the lawsuits is because of BSA's actions, as well as their draconian methods for mistreating their victims. Because BSA allows no recourse whatsoever. When James Randall's sons were summarily expelled, he met with the council's SE and tried to resolve the matter. The SE refused all attempts at a resolution, finally telling Randall to sue them. That was BSA ordering the parent of its victims to sue BSA. Which he did. And he won. It was overturned several years later by the state supreme court, but at least the boys were able to participate and advance to their Eagle Review (which is why the state Attorney General pushed the court to rule on the case). Their Scoutmaster praised them as model Scouts and wished more of his boys were like them. BTW, the state supreme court upheld that BSA discriminated, however the law didn't apply to them as a private organization.
And the lawsuits and other actions continue because of BSA continued actions.
Originally posted by JoeCYou and other atheist have no right to be in the Boy Scouts.
Show me.
Originally posted by JoeCWe have been very honest.
Originally posted by JoeCSince the 1950's when conducting a flag ceremony God has been referenced when Boy Scouts have recited the Pledge of Allegiance.
But what makes this statement meaningless is because the word "God" in it has been reduced to meaningless mumbling as pointed out by US Supreme Court Justice Brennan. It's nothing now except "ceremonial deism", lacking any actual religious meaning.
Originally posted by JoeCSince the founding of the Boy Scouts of America there has been a reference to God in the Boy Scout oath.
Originally posted by JoeCAnd since the 1970's the Boy Scouts have been very clear in press releases, statements made by officers of the Boy Scouts, briefs given in the courtroom, and arguments given to the US Supreme Court that if you are an atheist you cannot be a member.
Plus we have that "we're a religious organization and we always have been" lie which they started around 1991 on the advice of their lawyers. Since religious organizations have an easier time fighting discrimination litigation, BSA attorneys decided to have BSA claim that. Ironically, BSA had spent its first several decades fighting the notion that it was a religious organization like so many other youth organizations, in particular that it was Protestant, because they wanted to bring in boys of all different faiths.
At the exact same time that BSA was lying about being a religious organization (with a "secret religious agenda", no less), they also found themselves faced with litigation which was trying to bar them from recruiting in the public schools, just as no other religious organization is allowed to. So now they lied to the court that they aren't a religious organization and they never have been.
That kind of shenanigans may be normal among lawyers, but out here in the real world we have to ask both "so which is it already?" and "either way you're lying, so why?". Either way, BSA is most definitely not being honest!
When I started out, I saw the requirement that they be "absolutely nonsectarian" in their attitude towards religion. And as I researched further into officially published BSA policy, I saw that it was a very enlighted policy that could very well implement an "absolutely nonsectarian" program. But then news of the Randall twins' expulsion hit the news and realized that there was something very wrong happening. I realized that BSA was violating its own rules.
Now, our United Way, like most other United Ways, had a non-discrimination requirement for all recipients. So BSA would bring in their officially published policies to show United Way that they didn't discriminate and United Way would give them their money. And then BSA would not only discriminate at will, but proclaim in court and even in some public statements that they discriminate and they are proud to discriminate. But in all their dealings with United Way and with all other charities and donors and sponsors they would trot out their official rules and lie to them that they don't discriminate. I feel that that kind of dishonesty for monetary gain borders on outright fraud. At the very least, it most certainly is not being honest.
Far worse is the situation with their chartering organizations (CO) that have non-discrimination policies. BSA will trot out its officially published policies to show that they do not discriminate and then when the CO has units BSA will arbitrarily discriminate against one of the units' members completely against the will of the CO. Without warning, those COs suddenly become accomplices in discrimination and are completely helpless to do anything about it. So because of BSA's dishonesty, those COs are subject to whatever penalties they face for violating their own non-discrimination policies, all though no fault of their own except that they were foolish enough to trust BSA.
But wait, there's more! In court, BSA has argued that since they are a private "religious" organization, the plaintiffs cannot sue them, so the plaintiffs should instead sue the CO for discrimination. That's right! First BSA creates the situation, forcing discrimination on the CO completely against their will (and ignoring all attempts by the CO to make it stop), and then BSA throws the CO under the bus.
How many points of the "Scout Law" do we see being violated there? At the very least "Trustworthy", "Loyal", "Helpful", "Friendly", "Courteous", "Kind", "Obediant" (eg, violating court orders to not interfere with the Randall twins' participation while appeals were pending), "Cheerful" (more like sneering and gloating), "Thrifty" (wasting literally millions of dollars on unnecesary court cases that they themselves created; our council went to the units begging for donations citing legal costs of $5 million and I think they said it was just for the Randall trial), "Brave" (they kept snivelling in court that the Mormons were making them expel their victims). And don't forget "Reverent", since they show zero respect for the beliefs of others.
Originally posted by JoeCWe have been very honest.
So now the situation is still the same, only how the donors and the charities have learned through the lawsuits that BSA does indeed discriminate. So BSA has been losing money from those donors who do not allow discrimination. Why do you think that they voted gay youth in? Because they had suddenly seen the error of their ways? No, because they've been losing money. BSA wants to be able to claim that they don't discriminate anymore, but everyone can plainly see that they still do.
Government agencies (including public schools) can no longer charter units, nor directly support BSA. BSA is losing use of public lands. And that is all right and proper for an organization that wants the benefits of being private and "religious". That is BSA's choice. And in all that BSA is losing and will lose, it is all because of what BSA has done and continues to do. They can still turn themselves around and start to actually follow their own rules, but I doubt that they will. You cannot say that anybody is excluding BSA, but rather that BSA is excluding itself*.
So what has to be done is to inform all potential COs of what BSA has done and will do, so that they do not get suckered in by BSA's lies and become yet another of its victims.
{ * FOOTNOTE: Another of BSA's lies that it would tell the public was "We're not excluding atheists and gays; they're excluding themselves." }
My best friend, a non-catholic (non-Catholic?) sent his boys to a Jesuit run high school. Why? Because he thought that they would get a good education. I had my two sons go through the BSA program (Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts) because I thought it would do them and myself good. Both even earned their age appropriate religious youth emblem award (Light of Christ, Parvuli Dei and for one of them Ad Altare Dei). Maybe because their mother pushed them? Maybe because they thought having medals and knots on their uniform was cool?
Anyway, my point is that the DRP was anything I was that enamored with or against so either way I thought the program would be good for my boys.
I just saw this and thought it might be relevant to this thread:
In case you don't read Italian here's a synopsis:
Headline: "Pope Francis assures atheists: You don't have to believe in God to go to heaven"
Edit: Oops, here's the English version:
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura/201...tter-66336961/Last edited by packsaddle; 09-12-2013, 03:25 PM.
09-12-2013, 04:10 PMEditing a commentWow. A large segment of the flock is not going to like that. I just read the synopsis, but it seems he is saying as long as in your conscious something is not a sin, God is cool with that. That is sure going to make the Cafeteria Catholics happy.
The headline writer for the Independent seems to pour more into what the Pope is saying than what he is really saying.
"You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don't believe and who don't seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God's mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.
Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience."
He seems to saying what the Bible says in that our conscience is the light of God within each person. That God holds people accountable for how they have responded to conscience even if they have not heard, understood, or sought out the Gospel of Jesus. He speaks of God's mercy but has included the condition of seeking that mercy with a humble and contrite heart.
Most Atheists, as opposed to those who have not heard or sought the Gospel, are quite different. They REJECT the claims of church or scripture. They maintain that God cannot and does not exist and therefore would never seek him with a humble and contrite heart. Why would they even be concerned about a Heaven they are certain does not exist?
The Pope knows the difference between those who have doubts, fears, and lack of knowledge as opposed to those who despise and revile the very mention of God.
Nothing in his entire letter gives a free pass to atheists. He speaks of the primacy of faith in the crucified and risen Christ and the believers obligation to represent Him in the world with humility and respect to others so that those see and hear our words and actions of faith will respond with a willing heart that seeks Him.Last edited by WAKWIB; 09-12-2013, 07:19 PM.
Let me give this thread a lil spin:
BSA has a very basic rule like Free Masons - it doesnt matter what religion, as long as you tick one.
In other countries scouts are totally split into different organisations that DONT interact much based on
the kids being catholic/protestant whatever. I strongly dislike that.
There is nothing better than having christians, jews and muslims and hindus and buddhists and and
go out and play together, and go thrue the scouting program TOGETHER.
"A scouts own" can be different for every single scout. It should never be about
converting your peers but sharing, caring and respecting the other beliefs.
Excluding anyone is wrong IMHO, even if BSA is a private organisation,
"scouting" is more of an idea, a spirit.
09-12-2013, 07:16 PMEditing a commentMay his noodly appendages touch you.
09-13-2013, 06:29 AMEditing a commentKDD, I am just SO glad I didn't have a mouthful of coffee or something when I just read your comment.....
Isn't there a place where old threads can go to die????
With Trail Life taking the "Fundies" won't this become a non-issue now?
09-13-2013, 02:25 PMEditing a commentNo. You don't have to be Fundi for the "word" to drive you to do hateful things to children.
DWise1_AOL commented09-20-2013, 02:45 AMEditing a commentNo, absolutely not!
BSA has proposed outside of its actual rules, regulations, bylaws, etc, the existence of a rule that requires "belief in a Supreme Being". Such a rule has so far not been determined to actually exist. For that matter, in court in the case of Randall v. Orange County Council the judge did directly order BSA Orange County Council to produce such a rule and said Council Exec, Kent Gibbs, did directly inform the judge that no such rule in fact actually exists. Boy Scouts America, Inc, admitted in court that there is no such rule requiring "belief in a Supreme Being."
Do you have any problem with that?
The point of this entire thread is that as of the 1990's, there was in deed no BSA rule that actually required "belief in a Supreme Being". There was no such actual rule in the mid-1980's during the Paul Trout debacle and, in deed, BSA very explicitly stated that any "belief in a Supreme Being" "rule" was a complete "mistake". There was still no such rule in the early 1990's when Chief Scout Exec Ben Love, the exact same CSE who had reassured everybody during the Paul Trout debacle, was again enforcing the "belief in a Supreme Being" "rule" that in the Paul Trout debacle he himself had labelled a "mistake".
My question in this entire thread from the very start was whether anything had changed since the late 1990's. Going into the late 1990'a, any "belief in a Supreme Being" rule in BSA did not exist. I am asking whether any official rule has been enacted since then. So far, all indications are completely negative.
That is what I have been asking all along: What has officially changed since the late 1990's?


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Place the end of a flexible dressmakers tape on the high point of your shoulder (which is at the base of your neck). Run the tape measure downwards over the fullest part of your breast, through the center of your crotch, and up the back to the starting point at your shoulder. Hold the tape taunt without pulling or stretching it and make sure you are not arching or pushing your shoulders back. A petite torso will be (approximately) 57 - 60 inches, standard is 61 - 63, and extended is 64 and above.
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Lisa Paone, of the Parent Education Program of Strafford County, leads a discussion on positive parenting techniques during Rochester School District's annual Parents' Day Out, held Friday, Nov. 2. Thirty-two parents also learned more about good nutritional choices with Dave Leonard of the UNH Cooperative Extension, and about the EveryDay Math Program's web component with teachers Deb Allard and Meredith Tansey. Parents' Day Out is co-sponsored by the school district and the Title 1 program.
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Started by :
Lighthouse Trek
3 years ago
3 years ago
I received two sleeves of golf balls each with two golf balls in them. Titleist NXT Tour S and Titleist NXT Tour. I was to test them on a coarse and submit my evaluation of them. However, the paper that contained the web address to submit the results I must have lost. Does anyone know how I can obtain that information?
2 years ago
They were good off the T, great off irons, poor off woods. On the green very good.
After a while they scuffed up , making them harder to play.
I received 3 Titleist golf balls to test, but the URL I was given does not take me to the "feedback via short survey" so I'll post it here and hope Titleist reads this post.
I tested the prototype and gave one to my friend to test. I am a 9 handicap and my friend is an 8. I hit a long ball, but my friend has lost yardage over the years, but has a killer short game. Our observations:
Me: The ball is very long and reasonably straight. I average 250 yds with the driver, but had 4 drives over 270 yards with the prototype. My short game sucks so I was not able make any observation as to control and spin. I usually play the NXT tour, but would gladly switch to this ball because of its performance off of the tee and with long to mid irons. It has a feel during putting that is soft, but true.
My buddy: He reports that his swing speed had slowed to the point that he didn't think this ball was matched very well to his loss of distance. He loved the spin he was able to put on the ball in the short game. The ball stopped and checked with his wedges and hit and rolled out with his 8 iron bump and run.
Hope this helps. If you want to send me dozen gratis, I'll take them.
Gary Dunn
Andover, MN
Testing these balls was a blast, and I hope you guys find my feedback useful. Thank you for selecting me.
I recently received a sleeve of prototype golf balls and hve been trying to log on the wibe site to do the survey on them but can't. Has anyone else done this?
Played the prototype ball today in extreme wind. Was very impressed with the feel and distance I got with them.I was very happy with the control I got around the greens. Cannot wait to try them on a day when the weather is more cooperative.
How long do we have to test the balls. I received my sleeve but have a strained back and will be down for a couple of weeks. I see Dr. next week. Maybe get to try then. I appreciate being chosen. When I do test them I will post results. Thanks in advance.
Scott W
How long do we have to test the balls. I received my sleeve but have a strained back and will be down for a couple of weeks. I see Dr. next week. Maybe get to try then. I appreciate being chosen. When I do test them I will post results. Thanks in advance.
Here's to a speedy recovery! The team will keep the survey links up for as long as necessary but if you're unable to get out and test prior to the surveys closing, we'll understand. No need to worry and just focus on getting better.
Hi Team Titleist and Titleist Staff/R&D Dept!
I am so happy that I received a sleeve of prototype Pro V1x golf balls in the mail today! This is my first time getting something from TT, only being on for 1 year so far! I am excited to try them out and am honored to be able to test possible new 2013 equipment. Thanks to Titleist R&D!
Andy M.
If my prototype ball that I tested goes into production I would like to know what Titleist ball it will be. The address was http://survey.titleist.com/s3/TitleistPrototype1 also the test printed on the ball was in black.I think the test ball over all fit my swing speed around 96 mph and also improved my accuracy in the fairway, but the best improvment was putting.The test ball out performed the prov1 and also the hx tour. During the survey nothing was mentioned about putting.
Thank You for your time
Tom V.
First I want to thank Titleist for the opportunity to test the new ball. Found it to be a great product . Don't know what Titleist did to improve it but great companies that produce great products always find ways to improve.
Thank you for the sleeve of prototype balls. I enjoyed hitting them, they seemed to be just a little longer and the feel was about the same. They reminded me of the Titleist balata balls in the sense the cover has a tendency to peel with a short iron or a crisp short shot. I have not had this problem with the ProV1 and ProV1x. If this is to be the new ProV1 I commend your effort, however I will stock up on the current ProV1 because it is more durable. Jim Wilson 62 year old golfbumguy.
Hello, I just went to the site to do the evaluation on the Titleist prototype balls. It said that I'd be asked to enter my Team Titleist username and password. I never was asked for that identification. Looks like the survey went through but how would you know it was me?
Thanks and I love those prototypes, I want to buy them now!
Just received my sleeve of test balls! Looks like the same dimple pattern as my usual ProV 1x's and I can't wait to test them out. This will be my second ball testing I have had the privilege to participate in so a big Thank You to Team Titleist!!!
Paul C
Hello, I just went to the site to do the evaluation on the Titleist prototype balls. It said that I'd be asked to enter my Team Titleist username and password. I never was asked for that identification. Looks like the survey went through but how would you know it was me?
Thanks and I love those prototypes, I want to buy them now!
1) I can't find the survey links.
If your prototype golf balls had black numbers, please use the following link:http://survey.titleist.com/s3/TitleistPrototype1
If your prototype golf balls had red numbers, please use the following link:http://survey.titleist.com/s3/TitleistPrototype2
Please do not take the survey until after you've had a chance to test the golf balls.
2) The survey didn't ask me for my email address and didn't require me to log in.
There was a misprint in some of the instructions that accompanied the test golf balls that indicated you would need your username and password. This is not the case. The survey should be accessible without any log in requirements.
3) What golf ball am I testing?
The golf balls that were sent out as part of the product test panel were part of our ongoing golf ball R&D process and were just test golf balls. As you can imagine, we are constantly developing prototype golf balls and through the evaluation process we review the feedback we receive to continue along the R&D path.
4) How do I get selected? Or why wasn't I selected this time around?
We make every effort to include as many Team Titleist members as possible in these opportunities, but as you can imagine, we unfortunately are not able to include everyone in every test panel.
As for the selection process, all Team Titleist members are considered when we have opportunities like this but the final selection will vary depending on the test panel.
Also, the more you participate and the more engaged you are with Team Titleist, from posting in the discussions and adding blog comments to completing your profile, the better your chances are at potentially opening the doors to these Team Titleist opportunities.
I hope this helps clear things up for everyone. Thanks again!


text:
Chicken Curry Recipe
Chicken curry has always been my favorite, but I hardly make chicken curry from scratch. But this past weekend, I felt motivated and wanted to make chicken curry properly, without cheating with instant curry paste. And so I did.
There are many different varieties of chicken curry available in Malaysia: Indian, Muslim-Indian (Mamak), Chinese, Malay, and Nyonya. There are many chicken curry recipes but each takes after the basics of chicken curry, adapts, and enhances it accordingly. While different version renders its distinct taste (and presentation), the underlying flavors of chicken curry are pretty much the same–spicy, rich, aromatic, highly addictive, potentially aphrodisiac, and remarkably scrumptious…
Chicken curry can also be "wet" or "dry." The wet version is watery (mostly from coconut milk and water) and the dry version has a thicker curry gravy and tastes more intense. The recipe I am sharing today is Curry Chicken Kapitan–a "dryer" curry and a Nyonya adaptation of Indian chicken curry. (Kapitan is the name given to appointed Chinese chiefs during the Portuguese and Dutch colonization in Malaysia.)
Do try out my chicken curry recipe below.
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68 comments... read them below or add one
Hi, i m a Malaysian (Penangite!) currently living in Sacramento area, CA..Wish to know where can i get the Candlenuts (Buah Keras)? Wihtout this ingredient, will the Curry Chicken Kapitan aroma remains? Thanks!
You can replace buah keras with walnut…
aiks…. kapitan chicken…. can't hold myself from ordering everytime it is listed in any of the restaurant menu… I love this….
and can't deny that.. as Malaysian, food belongs to which races no longer a matter to us, food become something that hold everyone together….
and again.. I am sorry as i can't make use of your recipe yet… as none of us can cook..:P
This looks really delicious. I personally prefer the wetter curries to the drier curries.
I have been searching high and low for a good curry chicken recipe, there are so many on the internet. But yours look the best. Your photos are amazing!
Gigi – you can get them at Indian stores.
Bee, where online can I find fresh ingredients to be delivered like " Templeofthai"? There site has been closed for maintenance for months! I live in a rural part of Tx now after living in Singapore for a year. We fell in love with all the fresh chillis and kafir lime leaves spices and so on… I'm unable to cook our favorites. Please help!!!
Jennifer, where in Texas do you live? I used to live in DaLLas, Tx for almost thirty years and never had any problem finding spices and herbs or any exotic ingredients for cooking ethnic food. I know Dallas and Houston have H-Mart and some cities in Texas have Hong Kong super market, and all sorts of Asian and Indian super markets. H-Mart is on NW side of George Bush Hwy and Old Denton Rd. in Carrollton, Dallas' suburb. About a mile or so away from H-mart there are several Indian and Asian groceries stores. I have a kafir lime bush that I purchased from H-mart here in Atlanta, GA. You can plant most of the herbs and rhizomes (ginger, galangal, and turmeric, and lemon grass) in your garden or pots. I grow all of these in my garden and freeze them for future use. I freeze everything. Good luck to you.
Finally! Chicken curry recipe from scratch. Those chicken curry looks good. Not too watery and not too thick either. I am so going to try this.
Wow that looks so good!
Do you leave the lemongrass and kaffir lime leaves separate from the paste?
that looks JUST like the kind we make at home! the recipe is a bit different but still, that's the first familiar looking chicken curry ive seen yet. no 2 chicken curries are alike!
Ned – yes, lemon grass and kaffir lime paste are separate from the spice paste.
That looks amazing. Im gonna try making this using your chicken curry kapitan recipe. I have all the ingredients but galangal so i should be able to make this.
Great food for breaking of fast!
Until I visited Malaysia, I'd never had Nyonya cooking. I fell in love with it, of course, and brought back several wonderful cookbooks. I've made many different Malaysian curries, but never this one. So now I've got a wonderful recipe to add to my repertoire!
You might want to try use macadamia nuts in lieu of candlenuts. Not sure if it will affect the aroma of this curry but it works well with same other I tried.
It looks absolutely gorgeous! Very flavorful and spicy! A wonderful dish which I adore…
Ooh chicken curry.. my favourite curry of all! Try add some fresh stalk of lemongrass, trust me, it's worth the taste! and aroma, I tell you! :-)
But in your dish, u used lime leave so that makes it wonderful, sorta like rendang too..:-)
this is one of my favorite curries, my late grandmother used to make this and rest assure, the whole pot will be gone by dinner (there were 8 of us) :)
I live for a good chicken curry and that is actually the subject of my upcoming column this week.
Definitely have to try yours.
That curry looks tasty!
I love this dish! However, my preference would be to cook with bones in, although this is not always the western way
This sounds wonderful! I love all kinds of curries…aromatic and flavor-intense dishes are something I crave! This is definitelygetting bookmarked!
Some questions: Candlenuts are not readily avaialble here…will rthe curry be really sad without it? Ot is there a substitute?
Also, I just got some belacan (yay!)…how do you store yours?
mmmm I love curries! Never had this one, looks delicious. I will have to try this one soon.
Chichajo – you can use macadamia nuts, they work the same. For the storing of belacan, just store it in the fridge in an air-tight container (so it doesn't stink up your fridge.
Hey, just to let you know this weekend, my reader is bringing Mani Chai all the way from Boston..woohoo. :)
Live Crawdad supplier along 22 is close but a new one (affiliated with he boiling Crab ) opened up at 13908 Brookhurst st#b, Garden grove.
Yum x 1000. This is exactly what I need right now!
Time to make some curry chicken soon.. :)
hi bee yin, a fan of your frm klang. I was in Penang over the weekend, went the whole of island searching for the A1 curry chicken paste but couldnt find it. And then I just happen to visit the TTDI market looking for saffron, and there it is. The best curry chicken paste! :) have yet to try it….
rasa malaysia,
i'm a big fan of yours here in england. i'm goin to make these recipe today for dinner. but i can't find fresh turmeric. can i used the conventional grounded and bottled one? if yes, how much tbsp or tsp for these recipe? thank you so much.
Master – yes, you can use turmeric powder. As to how much, I would say you can start with 1/4 – 1/2 teaspoon first and add more if you wish. It's mostly for the color and also the turmeric aroma. Taste the flavor, if it's not enough, add more. :)
Hi there! When do I add in the lemongrass and lime leaves?
Sorry if this sounds stupid, but what are the exact item in the ingredient list that goes into the spice blend?
Yes, please say exactly which ingredients are included in the spice blend. Thanks.
Also your photos of the dish are lovely. But I'm wondering . . . is that a piece of cinnamon sticking up? (What is that brown stick-like thing in the photos?)
Rasa Malaysia, you're such a genious. I love your photos and it makes me hungry everytime I browse your blog.
I love Chicken Curry and I would love to try to make it from scratch from this recipe… the photo of the chicken curry look very very good!!
yes you can use macadamia instead of buah keras. what buah keras does is just makes the texture thicker…same effect with macadamia. good luck!
I am an Australian with a Nyonya wife from Penang living in Shanghai:) My wife speaks Mandarin very well but cannot write but can read a little (Convent Light School). My Ayi cooks Shanghainese which is horrible and greasy and cold. I found Curry Kapitan and using Google Translate, I came up with this translation :) Can someone advise if this is anywhere near correct? I cannot find Chinese translation for Candlenuts. I hope the Chinese characters post correctly.
Mark Bourne
Shanghai China.
食谱: 咖喱鸡甲必 Chicken Curry Kapitan.
成分: Ingredients:
[1.5 lb boneless chicken thigh and/or breast (cut into small cubes/pieces)]
[2 lemon grass (cut into 4-inch lengths, use only the white part, pounded)]
[1 1/2 inch galangal (southern ginger)]
[1/2 lb red chili (seeded and sliced)]
[5 shallots (sliced)]
[1 inch ginger]
6 candlenuts (浸泡在温水)
[6 candlenuts {buah keras or kukui nut} (soaked in warm water) – macadamia nut can be used as a substitute but is less bitter]
[1/2 inch fresh turmeric]
1 / 4茶匙虾酱(发酵虾酱)
1/4 teaspoon belacan (fermented shrimp paste)
[1 cup coconut milk]
[6-8 pieces kaffir lime leaves]
[1 tablespoon lime juice]
Salt to taste
1>> 混合所有的香料非常精细粘贴。
[Blend all spices to a very fine paste.]
2>> 热了一些烹调油在炒锅和炒粘贴到芳香或薄薄的一层油上升到顶端。。
[Heat up some cooking oil in a wok and stir-fry paste until aromatic or a thin layer of oil rises to the top.]
3>> 添加买鸡,并继续搅拌,直到它几乎煮熟。
[Add chicken and continue stirring until it's almost cooked.]
4>> 加入椰奶和继续炖煮另一15-20分钟,小火。
[Add the coconut milk and continue to simmer for another 15-20 minutes, over low heat.]
5>> 添加盐味和服务热
[Add salt to taste and serve hot.]
Hi Mark,
The google's translation really tickled my funny bone….:-D
1.5 lb boneless chicken thigh and/or breast (cut into small cubes/pieces)]
—> 1.5磅去骨鸡大腿和/或乳腺癌(切成小方块/件)
乳腺癌 = breast cancer!!!! imagine the reaction you get from the shop assistant….
what you need is ..鸡胸肉
Also, lemon grass is known as 香茅 in chinese, not 柠檬草..
shallots = 红葱头/小红洋葱
candlenuts = 石栗
kaffir lime leaves = 青柠叶/泰国柠檬叶
(the 石灰 in google's translation means cement ^.^|| you dont really need cement in your cooking :-D)
lime juice = 酸橙汁 (橙 = orange; 酸橙 = lime)
Hope this helps :)
i just finished cooking this delicious curry. but u really should've put in the recipe that lemon grass and kaffir lime leaves need to be seperated.. cos i blended the lemon grass all together with the spice paste. lucky i did put lime leaves seperate .. frm experience. it taste delicious anyway, just a bit rough in textures due the lemon grass being blended in it. i also added some water cos i like more watery curry. thanks for the recipe.. this is my first attempt making curry and its actually eatable ahaha…
Missus – thanks for sharing the techniques as to separating lemon grass and kaffir lime leaves :)
Greetings from Dhaka Bangladesh,
I just love trawling through food sites & yours is just incredible.Superb Photography adds to the success of all your recipes because we can judge what the finished product should look like.
I enjoy your writing style & since I am very much home bound, the different blogs transport me to worlds that are so different from ours, bringing the exotic and the unusual right to my doorstep. My deep desire to travel & see the world is often satisfied just going through wonderful blogs like yours. Congratulations. Zeenath
Oh I forgot to ask. In the recipe for Chicken Curry Kapitan, do you actually use 1/2 lb of red chilies? Are these fresh or dried red chilies. !/2 lb in my opinion will be TOO HOT even though we eat very hot food. Is this a typing mistake ? Also we do not get candle nuts or macadamia nuts here? Can we substitute cashew nuts or almonds instead? Thanks
1/2 fresh red chilies for the recipe. No, they shouldn't be too spicy. Try it.
lemon grass if very expensive in my neck of the woods. I bought some lemon grass powder but I don't know how much of this to use. Help! Thanks.
hi, i live in australia and despite my asian background (singaporean!) i'm ashamed to say i don't know what galangal is. is there a substitute for it that i can use if i can't find it in asian groceries?
thanks, i found it in the end! will try it tmr! (:
Do you use cinnamon stick? Cause from the pictures you take….there are some cinnamon sticks……
when do you use the lemone grass and the lime leaves? when do you add them? do you add them to the chicken with the coconut milk to simmer?
I need help, about to make this in just two days.
Thank you!
I so Looooovvvvvvvvveeeeeeeeeee your website.. Thks.. for shAring.. :)
i would like to know about the cinnamon stick also? was that added to the stew or was it for photographic purposes only? thanks
Fantastic recipe. I had a go last night and my boyfriend absolutely loves it. Its my first time making Kapitan and loving it.
Thanks for sharing the recipe :)
"Shallots" can mean different things in different countries, and different cities too (eg Melbourne and Sydney) for that matter.
In the case of this kapitan recipe, does "shallots" mean those little purple "eschalots" or the long thin spring onion type of shallot?
Also, there is something bitter going on in my paste . . . could this be the lemongrass I mistakenly blended or perhaps the combination of red onion and spring onions I used in lieu of shallots?
The curry chicken was very nice. I do like your recipes.
Pingback:The traditional chicken curry at Christmas « lekowala!
Hi there, this curry recipe looks lovely and very different from my one which is of Indian origin – from my ma in law in fact. Thought you might like to take a look at mine which I have called 'Amma's Chicken curry' and can be found on my blog. Take care Torie
Then What abt the lemon grass, lime juice, and lime leaf???????
When should I add lime juice to this recipe?
Today I made this curry according to your recipe. altho I am not a fan of santan,it was delicious. The spices was just right,blended well with the santan.
can you send me a recipe for a easy curry chicken with potato, a sweet and sour chicken..i don't know how to cook and i tried to look for a easy recipe for those cooked…
thank you
Hi Bee,
Can you recommend a curry recipe which I can introduce to my three year old? I tried one on the weekend and despite deseeding all the chillies it was still too spicy for her. Btw I've got your cookbook and was able to make delicious simple Chinese meals which I didn't managed to learn from my late mother…so thanks very much! Your blog is one that I visit often for meal ideas :-)
Cheers, Irene
Wouldn't it be better to measure the ginger and galangal by weight? They vary in thickness, so measuring by length isn't very precise.


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KU Endowment gets $2.7 million from Hall family
Published on -4/23/2013, 10:57 AM
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LAWRENCE, Kan. (AP) -- The Hall Family Foundation has donated $2.7 million to support research at the University of Kansas' Hall Center of Humanities.
The Kansas University Endowment Association announced the latest gift from the Hall family on Monday. It said the donation will fund a new distinguished professorship and create two new research fellowships at the center.
The Lawrence Journal-World reports (http://bit.ly/13V3RCO ) $500,000 of the donation will be used to attract a leading researcher to the new distinguished professorship.
Another $1 million will create a postdoctoral fellowship for a researcher in digital humanities, and another $1 million will create a mid-career fellowship.


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Opaque has a white semi-transparent stain and a high gloss finish.
Show in Virtual Showroom
Oak Dome is a stained oak floor in a warm white tone. The length of the board enhances the depth of the floor.
One strip design, matte finish, slight color variation, brushed, four sided bevel, may contain some knots. Features Kährs ECO Core.
Reef oak is a natural one strip design. May contain small knots and mild color variation.
Tundra oak is a natural one-strip design with a white stain. May contain small knots and mild color variation.
Ash Serrant have a 1-strip design, matt finish and some knots.


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The green-red highlight is buggy in some tables, starting from the Nexuiz table on page 3.
The green-red highlight is buggy in some tables, starting from the Nexuiz table on page 3.
"Nothing (new) to see here. Move along, move along..."
Also, did Phoronix go down because of this article? There was ~20min when I couldn't access, some hours after the article went live.
If you are so eager to criticise, find time to carry out these tests on your own on either Gentoo or LFS.
But then we will argue vehemently about the GCC flags which have to be used in order to compile those two distros.
Ubuntu is an established Linux distro. If you don't understand it, or don't like this fact, please, do not comment here and please, refrain from reading Phoronix articles.
I'm actually encouraged by these tests. Ubuntu actually was ahead of Win7 in a few of the cases and generally was not that far behind, Intel graphics notwithstanding, but if you have an Intel graphics chip you're not going to be doing any serious gaming anyway. In many of the tests Ubuntu was ahead at low res settings where it was more CPU driven then fell behind at high res settings. This tells me that regardless of how far nVidia and ATI have come with their Linux drivers, they are still inferior to their Windows counterparts, which is something I think most of us knew already.
Windows is still a lot better for desktop, where latency and GUI response matters. There's is no good DE today, none of them are optimized or are memory efficient. They're are slow, featureless, and they suck.


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Florence versus Shore, 2012 NJSIAA Central Jersey football Championship.zip
Saturday, December 08, 2012 6:49 PM
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Florence defeats Shore to win 2012 NJSIAA Central Jersey Group 1 football championship. Mary Iuvone/For the Times
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Another event history that is ignored in government indoctrination camps (public schools). This is an egregious example of how the US government has mistreated veterans. How many people know that Gen MacArthur attacked prtoesting veterans in Washington DC in the 20th Century?Read »
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Our Self Drive Tours of Ireland are the perfect way to see Ireland. Tour Ireland with our custom sightseeing guides and full back up during your Irish vacation. We fully understand that your vacation time is precious
If you need a private tour of Irleand, you have come to the right place! We can offer all the ground arrangements including Hotels, Coaches, Guides, Visits, Meals and Entertainment as well as suggested optional sightseeing and activities.
Escorted Bus Tours Ireland
Book by November 30th 2014 & Save 10% on all 2015 CIE Escorted Bus Tours of Ireland and the UK - Call our offices in Ireland Tollfree and avail of our Price Promise. Our experienced staff will guarantee that we will not be beaten on price.
Whatever type of experience you want for your honeymoon in Ireland we have it! Be it a cosy corner of a Dublin City pub or a romantic escape on one of our near deserted islands! Our tours are available on a self-drive basis and we also offer each tour as a chauffeured tour of Ireland.
This Irish knitting tour will help you experience craft in Ireland with an emphasis on knitting. Tour includes workshops, demonstrations and visits to some of the best craft experiences in Ireland including the Museum of Country life and the National Museum of Decorative Arts & History.
Irish Castle Vacations
Stately luxury and culinary bliss combine with beautifully decorated rooms that whisper to you of times past in Ireland. Make your Irish castle tour a truly memorable vacation experience. Call us Tollfree in Ireland now.
Customer Reviews
Hello Tina!
We'll we are back in the states now, very reluctantly I must add. The country was every bit as beautiful as I imagined it to be. The accommodations were wonderful. Read More »
Don Moak, California, USA
As the leading tour operator in Ireland, our team of experienced, dedicated and friendly staff take great pride in the high level of personal service that we offer to all of our international customers and travel agents with an interest in vacations in Ireland. You will be assigned a dedicated travel advisor in our Irish offices complete with direct contact details via email and TollFree numbers. All of our Tour and Travel Packages are to some degree customized according to your requirements and rest assured that at no time will your appointed tour operator in Ireland rush you into booking any of our Ireland tours until you are completely happy with your tour and travel itinerary.
Our Self Drive Tours of Ireland and Bus Tours of Ireland are just a sample of the large range of tour packages and travel deals to Ireland that we can offer for your vacation in Ireland.


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Gallery: Studio Olafur Eliasson's Crystalline Harpa Concert Hall Wins t...
The waterfront façade of the Harpa Concert Hall is made of individual polygonal glass frames resembling sparkly fish scales, which reflect water and light, creating a kaleidoscope of luminous colors. Aside from lighting up the harbor, the glass allows total usage of natural lighting during daytime, changing hues as the seasons change. In the evening, a system of LED lights illuminate the inside, giving the building a warm glow that is reflected in the dark waters of the harbor.
The massive 28,000 square meter interior, designed by Henning Larsen and Batteriid Architects, hosts four main halls which represent the elements. A fiery 1800 seat grand concert hall, called Eldborg, emulates Iceland's volcanic activity. The smaller halls represent the Northern Lights (air), calcite crystals (earth), and a cold lagoon (water).
Harpa is the center of a project to re-enliven Reykjavik's harbor front, drawing crowds as the new home of the Iceland Symphony Orchestra and the Icelandic Opera. The building also hosts conferences and meetings.
Images © Olafur Eliasson
3 Comments
lazyreader August 25, 2011 at 1:01 pm
This is a concert hall, it looks more like the place where Jor-El launched his sons spacecraft.
Hana Vinduska August 25, 2011 at 7:44 am
So how is this immense space sustainably kept comfortable – as in good climate?
Is this sustainable architecture?
gdsfafas May 21, 2011 at 11:37 am
The facade is incredibility 1950′s. When everyone was interested in simple repetitive geometry.I have to say I was expecting much more. The interior shot looks amazing but the facade not so much.
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Yuka YonedaWINDOWHOP It's easy to get depressed when your work schedule has you getting less sun than Edward Cullen (you've got the sickly pallor to match and it's not nearly as sexy on you). If you're lucky enough to at least have a window in your workspace, openREAD MORE >
Diane PhamCutting back on your energy usage is one of the best ways to bring down your electricity bill. But did you know that making simple changes to not just your wattage consumption but the way your home retains and expels air can dramatically transform the wayREAD MORE >
Jill FehrenbacherDid you know that there are wolves living near you in almost every state in the country? Sadly most of these wolves are not living in the wild, but in wolf sanctuaries, which are conservation organizations set up to protect them and help grow their populationREAD MORE >
Yuka YonedaNamba Parks was conceived when Osaka Stadium closed down, presenting a great redevelopment opportunity for a new commercial district right next to the Namba Train Station, which is just one stop away from Kansai Airport. Since it's one of the first placesREAD MORE >
Beth BuczynskiTop image: A child is put to work at a militia-run mine in Watsa. © Marcus Bleasdale/National Geographic Captured during a 2004 visit to the war-torn Democratic Republic of Congo, Bleasdale's images "tell the story of the country's mineral resourceREAD MORE >
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Jill FehrenbacherTIP 1: Wrap Your Home in Insulation - "The More, The Better!" Proper insulation is probably the most important factor you can control in creating an energy-efficient home. I always say insulation is like chocolate, the more you have, the better! On average,READ MORE >
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Morgana MatusFor centuries, the Dutch have manipulated the landscape to move water away from their dwellings. Instead of battling the elements, Netherlands-based firm Waterstudio just announced plans to construct the world's first floating apartment complex in 2014! TheREAD MORE >


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Wireless (Wi-Fi) Internet
We offer free wireless internet to our shoppers at this Simon mall. Any shopper with a Wi-Fi enabled laptop, tablet or smartphone can easily log onto the Wi-Fi network. All shoppers have to do is open their web browser or select "Simon WiFi" (the SSID name) from their available list of wireless networks to get to the Simon Malls Wi-Fi landing page. All shoppers that choose to use the Wi-Fi network at this mall must agree to Simon Wi-Fi Terms & Conditions of Use prior to using this free service. If there are any issues or questions, shoppers and tenants should contact the Wi-Fi network technical support hotline at (888) 726-5930 for assistance.
Foreign Currency Online Ordering with Travelex
Order your travel money online for convenient home delivery. Did you know that some Simon mall locations also include retail Travelex stores for your convenience. Travelex is the world's largest retail foreign currency exchange specialist, with over 1000 stores around the world. We can provide you with over 75 foreign currencies as well as a Cash Passport that can be pre-loaded with either Pounds or Euros and includes chip & PIN technology, a must when traveling in Europe. To get started, visit Travelex now.
Indoor Device Charging Stations
You can charge your phone while you are shopping. Conveniently located Device Charging Stations allow visitors to charge their phones, tablets, and other communication devices while enjoying the mall. The Charging Station features comfortable seating - and is the perfect spot to rest and recharge!
Simon Giftcard®
Give the gift of shopping with a Simon Giftcard, available at Simon Guest Services® in denominations ranging from $20 to $500. There are no fees after purchase and the funds do not expire. The Simon Giftcard can be used anywhere Visa or American Express are accepted. See cardholder agreement for complete terms and conditions.
Located on the uppler level by Sears.
Children's Play Area
The Children's Play Area, sponsored by Fountain Valley Regional Hospital & Medical Center, is located lowel level in front of JCPenney. It is open all mall hours.
iPhone® & Android™ App
The Simon Malls Mobile App can help you find your favorite stores, dining and entertainment options at the Simon Mall nearest you. You'll also be able to check out the latest deals and events available at your favorite mall right from your phone. And there are many more features designed to enhance your shopping experience including mall maps & gift card balance check. Download the free app from the App Store℠ for iOS powered devices or from Google Play™ for Android powered devices today. iPhone is a trademark of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. App Store is a service mark of Apple Inc. Android and Google Play are trademarks of Google Inc.
Lost and Found
Lost and Found information is handled by Guest Services. Contact Guest Services in Center Court or by calling 714.898.2559.
Mall Walking
All mall entrances are open at 7am so that walkers can walk in a safe, climate controlled environment.
Handicapped parking is located at all mall and major store entrances.

Shopping Bags
Large shopping bags are available at Simon Guest Services for $1. Proceeds benefit the Simon Youth Foundation.
Simon Kidgits Club

Join the club! What's the Simon Kidgits Club? It is a fun, informative club for kids 3 - 8 years old. Children will receive valuable lessons in education, safety, health and wellness, and much more! Complete program details available at Simon Guest Services in center court $5 annual membership fee per child. For more information visit www.simonkidgitsclub.com.

U.S. Post Office located at the upper level Macy's wing.

 Hours: M-F 10:30 am - 5:00 pm, Sat. 10:30 am - 3:00 pm. Closed 1:00- 2:00pm.
Strollers are available at all exterior entrances. The price is $5 with a $1 refund upon return of the stroller.
Coca-Cola vending machines are located througout the mall. Beverages include: Coca-Cola, Diet Coke, Coke Zero, Dasani Water, Sprite, Dr. Pepper, Fanta, and Powerade.
Wheelchairs (Complimentary)
Wheelchairs are available free of charge at Simon Guest Services on a first-come, first-served basis with proper identification.
Enhanced Cellular Connectivity
This property features enhanced cellular connectivity that improves the signal strength and brings the cell phone tower inside of the mall.
SYF Coin Wishing Wells

The SYF Coin Wishing Wells bring in funds for Simon Youth Foundation (SYF) programs. The SYF helps provide economical, educational and career development opportunities to local youth. All of the proceeds collected from the SYF Coin Wishing Well go to the Simon Youth Foundation.

Then Get Our Can't Miss Style Reports, Retailer
Offers and Event News Before Everyone Else.
Plus you'll be entered to win a $1,000 Shopping Spree.


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HOME Iowa Hawkeyes Gear Iowa Hawkeyes Ladies Iowa Hawkeyes Ladies Sweats (63 items) Product ID: 632142
Main Content
This item ships within one business day.
$4.99 flat rate shipping. See other shipping options.
Ladies, aren't you tired of rummaging through your man's closet to find an Iowa hoodie to snuggle up with for game day? Well, your borrowing days are over. Show up looking super cute in Hawkeyes style with this Vault Boyfriend hoodie from Nike. This super comfy hoodie features a longer length with school and team names printed on the front and a throwback team logo printed on the left side of the hood, so you can look sassy and feminine during the game while still getting all the comfort of wearing your guy's sweatshirt with a touch of retro flair!
- 80% Cotton/20% Polyester
- Hood with drawstring
- Imported
- Lightweight hoodie suitable for mild temperatures
- Longer length
- Officially licensed collegiate product
- Rib-knit cuffs & waist
- Screen print graphics
- Two front pockets
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Special event items are produced by manufacturers only after the outcome of a game or event. These are advanced sale items and will ship immediately after they are received in our warehouse.
Manufacturer direct items are shipped directly from the manufacturer. These items are not available for international or expedited shipping.
Customized items can be personalized with options such as your name, your favorite number, and/or designs. Some options may be limited by league rules.


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$65.00 $43.00
Style #220319
Cool weather is no match for this ultimate run top. Combining heat-conductive X-STATIC®, The Silver Fiber™, and super-soft DWR-treated fabric, this high-performance piece moves moisture and regulates your body temperature—because thermally balanced runs are the best.
• Fit: Semi-fitted
• DWR (Durable Water Repellent) treatment offers light rain protection
• 360 degrees of 3M™ Scotchlite™ retroreflectivity
• Articulated sleeve with thumbholes
• 8" center-front zip with lock-down pull
Product Actions
- Climate: 40 to 65 F
- Fit: Semi-Fitted


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Burton Dining Hall is located in the Drysdale Student Center.
We serve hot breakfasts, lunches, and dinners daily, plus sandwiches, salads, soups, cereal, and more. You're sure to find something delicious every time you visit!
Each semester, theme meals are fun and popular events. We plan cookouts, super bowl parties, movie nights, seafood nights, and late night breakfasts during exams.
The Westover Room, Brewed Awakenings, and Domino's at Stinger's offer additional dining options. And our catering services can make any event - whether for a College office or outside group - a special one.
Guest Meals
If you have an LC meal plan, you have 2-5 guest meals (depending on the plan) you may use in the dining hall during the semester. Present your ID card to the cashier in the dining hall and request that a guest meal privilege be deducted for your visitor.
Hornet Shop in Hopwood Hall
Located in Hopwood Hall, and houses snack and drink vending machines. The machines take coins and bills.
- Monday - Friday
10:30 a.m. - 2:30 p.m.


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Valentines dinner and a movie
Thursday, February 7, 2013
ROCHESTER — On Saturday, Feb. 16, at 6 p.m. the Harvest of Praise Church of God located at 17 Heaton St. will be having a Valentines dinner and a movie. They will be serving roast beef, vegetables, and mashed potatoes with gravy, beverage and dessert for $7.50 per person. Reservations are required for the dinner only by Feb. 13 by calling 335-1151.


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Wedding Jewellery (1)
After sleepless nights you've found the right dress, a veil for your hair and shoes to impress, but if finishing touches are yet to be found, then here's a selection to turn that around. An elegant choice for your first married kiss, is a string of pearls on your neck and wrists. A minimal pendant or sparkling broach, will capture the light as you make your approach. Complete with the rings that you'll share to the end, with diamonds in mind as a girl's
best friend


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Rock the Relay
Rock 'n' Roll Providence 2-Person Half Marathon Relay
Enjoy all of the half marathon fun, just a shorter run!
Runners of all capabilities can enjoy the half marathon experience by grabbing a partner and running. Join the new sect of running enthusiasts and register your Relay team today!
Relay participants will be treated to all of the half marathon perks including: commemorative finisher's medal, Brook's technical participant tee, swag bag and most importantly, a rockin' half marathon memory.
Relay Teams are encouraged to wear costumes and get into the spirit! Have fun and rock the run!
By the Numbers
- # of teams- 150
- 2-Person teams
- 2 Legs:
- 1st Leg = approximately 5 miles
- 2nd Leg = approximately 8 miles
- 1st Leg = approximately 5 miles
*subject to change
Participant Perks
- Official Relay Finisher's Medal
- Brooks Technical Tee
- Swag bag
- ChronoTrack timing tag
- Special race bib
- Post-race beer at the Finish Line Festival
- Rock 'n' Roll branded baton: Each team member will be issued a commemorative Rock 'n' Roll branded baton, one of which will be designated as the official "team baton" for the race
- Access to the Finish Line Festival and Headliner Concert
The first relay member will run the first leg with the commemorative Rock 'n' Roll Relay drumstick in hand. The exchange will take place at Lippitt Memorial Park; and from there the second relay member will run the drumstick through to the finish line at Francis Street along the State House Grounds.
Relay Transportation
Participants will be responsible for their own transportation for the relay. The first leg runner will proceed to the Start Line at Gaspee Street in front of the State House and may park at Providence Place Mall. The 2nd leg runner will proceed directly to the Relay Transition point at Lippitt Memorial Park. There will be ample street parking near the Relay transition point. Please do not park in the shopping center lot in this area. Detailed relay instructions will be sent via e-mail and will be made available on our Website as race day gets closer.
Team Divisions
- 3 Divisions
- Male: For teams comprised of two males
- Female: For teams comprised of two females
- Mixed: Also referred to as "coed." This division is for teams comprised of male and female
Registration and Packet Pick-up
- Relay Registration is only available online and closes August 12, 2012.
- $125 per team (June 1 – July 31 or sell out)
- $145 per team (Aug 1 – August 12 or sell out)
- No expo registration
- Captain must set-up team and pay for all members at time of registration. Each team member will need to register online by August 12, 2012 to be eligible to participate.
- Participants must be at least 12 years old.
- Each team is required to have 2 members.
- Each relay member must attend the Health & Fitness Expo to pick up their race bib, timing tag, T-shirt, swag bag and baton. You are not allowed to pickup for your teammate.
- Photo IDs are required. All registered participants must bring their confirmation sheet.
- Race day packet pick-up is not available.
As a policy, all entries are non-refundable and non-transferable. If you have registered for the half marathon and now want to run the relay, you will have to register for the relay separately. You will not receive a refund for the half marathon.
Relay participants who complete the entire half marathon or marathon instead of the designated relay distance will be disqualified from the race, deemed ineligible for awards and prizes and banned from all Competitor Group event indefinitely.
Step-by-Step Online Registration Instructions
Online Team Registration Instructions – Team Captains
The Team Captain creates the team, registers both participants, and pays for the team. Please follow these steps:
- Visit the Rock 'n' Roll Providence Registration page, click the "Continue Registration" button.
- Click to "Create a 2-Person Half Marathon Relay Team".
- Returning users can use their Race It e-mail address and password, while first time users will need to "Create an Account".
- Complete all required fields for Team Information and click "Continue". Choose "Yes" if you will be one of the Relay team members and "No" if you are registering 2 other participants.
- Once you click Continue, you will receive an e-mail from firstname.lastname@example.com to manage your team if you do not complete your registration in one sitting.
- Complete all required fields for Team Member 1 and click "Continue". Complete additional required fields for Team Member 1 and click "Continue".
- Click "Add a Member" on the Team Manager page to register Team Member 2.
- Complete all required fields for Team Member 2 and click "Continue". Complete all additional required fields for Team Member 2 and click "Continue".
- Confirm both team members are listed correctly and click the "Checkout" button.
- On the Checkout page, enter Credit Card Information and click "Review Payment".
- Review your information and complete your purchase.
- You will receive a Confirmation Receipt on the screen; print that out for your records.
Both the team captain and team member will receive an email within two weeks before the event to download final instructions and confirmation sheets.
Please call 800-311-1255 and ask for the Registration Department if you have any questions or concerns.


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Alabastre Intreccio Impero Ayers Knot
The Knot is one of our most coveted clutches. Based on an archival design, which was reintroduced in 2001, the rounded box clutch is a masterpiece of design and artisanal craftsmanship. Each interpretation reconfirms the irresistible beauty and timeless charm of this iconic bag, the name of which is inspired by the meticulously crafted knot closure. This version is made of luscious satin intrecciato with a luxurious ayers trim.
- Snakeskin print, Satin, Solid color, Framed closure, Lined interior, Engraved logo
Composition: Textile fibers, Reptile leather
Depth: 2.3 Inches
Height: 4.1 Inches
Width: 6.6 Inches
Made In Italy
Select color
Select size (Size Guide)
This item is sold out


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- We are sorry.
- At this time there is no more inventory available for item 'Close Brothers or Friends'.
- Please make another selection.
Customer Reviews
Read reviews for this product
Posted 2/9/2013 at 11:00 AM by Joyanne
My twin grandsons loved this.
Posted 2/13/2013 at 3:14 PM by Angela
Arrived in Perfect condition and on time.
Posted 3/1/2013 at 12:43 PM by Mary Lou
Adorable! Very pleased.
Sending the same ornament to different places? If you order more than one of an item and want them shipped to different addresses, please order them individually. We will ask you for the individual shipping addresses later in the ordering process.
Close Brothers or Friends Christmas Ornaments
Personalized Christmas Ornament
Material: Resin
Ornaments shown on our site are personalized, as examples only, so you can see where we put the words/names you give us. Some ornaments allow you to select hair or uniform color. If there is no color choice, it is not available on that particular ornament. We will do everything possible to catch any mistakes in spelling, etc., but are not responsible if we do as you request, and it is then not correct. The ornament you see above is the way it will look when you get it, except for the personalizing instructions you give us and any optional attributes you select.


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"Just the Two of Us" Sterling Silver Earrings
by Othahyuni | Item #: 434385 |
- $ 45 00 45.00
Non-members pay 10% surchargeJoin now!
- Shipping
Delivery estimates, taxes, and fees are based on ZIP Code. Club Pickup orders are based on your club's current price and item availability on the day of payment.
The perfect earrings and the perfect symbol.
Contemporary designs by Native American artist Diane Schenandoah that will become classic. Originally hand-sculpted by the artist then cast in sterling silver.
- Sterling silver
- 6mm
- Hand-polished finish
Assembled Country
Component Country
Ask & Answer
Warranty InformationThis product is covered by the Sam's Club Member Satisfaction Guarantee.
There is no additional information available for this item.


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Keung and Fai had been good friends since childhood. They both had keen interest in boxing-matches. Having parted with Keung for more than ten years, Fai had become a police officer. On the contrary, Keung had joined an illegal organization as a professional killer. Keung decided to resign from the organization, but his family died of the explosion set by the chief leader, Mr. Chor. Keung saw Fai again because of Fai's younger sister, Mui. He lied to Fai that he had been working as a sailor for the past ten years. When Fai discovered that Keung was a professional killer, he got furious and expelled Keung away. After Keung had left, Chor's men came. Mui was raped and beaten to death. Keung decided to fight a duel with Chor……
Click here to list more Norman Chu's DVD titles


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Tracy Worzella1, Brad Larson1, John Watson1, and Siegfried Sasshofer21Promega Corporation, 2800 Woods Hollow Road, Madison WI 53711, USA 2TECAN Austria Ges.m.b.H. Untersbergstrasse 1A, A-5082 Groedig
We demonstrate the use of Promega's luminescent HTS assays for profiling test compounds on a Tecan system. This profiling example takes a parallel approach to compound analysis by incorporating diverse assay types including cell-based assays for viability and apoptosis induction, a cell-based GPCR DRD1 assay, cytochrome P450, P-glycoprotein, monoamine oxidase,and kinase assays. Using a panel of assays, we show that one can obtain a better understanding of drug compound properties in order to better predict off-target activity and toxicity.
For this application, we have chosen several kinase (PKA) inhibitors and demonstrate the vast amount of information that can be obtained from these compounds by assaying them against a variety of chemistries. To generate the data, a Tecan Freedom Evo® 200 with an integrated TeMo™ was used to dispense cells, serially dilute test compounds and assemble assays in 384-well format. Luminescence was recorded with a Tecan GENios Pro™ plate reader. IC50 or EC50 calculations were performed for each compound and assay combination. Results show that data from these assays can be used to determine multiple compound characteristics for subsequent lead selection.
Download the poster
PDF (109kb)
We offer a range of services to help you succeed using Promega technologies. From product training to set up of automated systems and development of custom applications—our scientific support goes beyond the basics.
Ask us! We are here to help you.