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GASB Releases New Pension Guidance
July 13, 2012
The Governmental Accounting Standards Board (GASB) has approved a new pension standard that will affect how governmental entities measure, report, and disclose information about defined benefit pensions offered to employees. The new guidance in Statement No. 68, "Accounting and Financial Reporting for Pensions," takes effect in FY 15 and will impact public higher education institutions.
Pension benefits are part of a compensation exchange between an employer and employee. The new standard attempts to align the recognition of pension expense with the period in which the related benefits are earned. Consequently, the measurement process incorporated into Statement No. 68 involves three essential steps:
- Project future benefit payments for current and former employees and their beneficiaries.
- Discount those payments to their present value.
- Allocate the present value over past, present, and future periods of employee service.
Overall, the changes set forth by the GASB will likely accelerate the recognition of pension expense. As a result, governmental employers will have to recognize and report a related net pension liability-the difference between the total actuarially determined pension benefit liability and plan assets that are available to pay the calculated benefits.
For purposes of Statement No. 68, employers fall into one of three categories:
- Cost-sharing employers provide their employees with defined benefit pensions through cost-sharing, multiple-employer pension plans-plans in which the plan assets can be used to pay the pensions of any participating employer's employees.
- Single employers provide their employees with defined benefit pensions through single-employer pension plans-plans in which pensions are provided to the employees of only one employer.
- Agent employers provide their employees with defined benefit pensions through agent multiple-employer pension plans-plans in which plan assets are pooled for investment purposes but are legally segregated to pay the pensions of each employer's employees.
The most significant aspect of the new standard for public higher education institutions concerns the recognition of pension expense and a net pension liability for cost-sharing employers. Hundreds of public institutions have employees who have been promised pension benefits through their state's public employee retirement systems, which are structured as multiple-employer, cost-sharing plans. Currently, cost-sharing employers are not required to present actuarial information about pensions.
The new guidance for cost-sharing employers in Statement No. 68 reflects the GASB's belief that the information needs of users regarding cost-sharing employers do not differ significantly from those interested in single and agent employers. Accordingly, cost-sharing employers are viewed collectively as having primary responsibility for the plan's unfunded pension obligations. Under the new standard, public colleges and universities that are part of their state's multiple-employer, cost-sharing pension plan will report a proportionate share of a net pension liability and pension expense.
The final pension standard will be available from the GASB in August. NACUBO will provide more detailed analysis in an upcoming issue of Current.
Sue Menditto
Director, Accounting Policy
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Just saw this post from Pajama Media, a very thought provoking one, and I'm very discouraged. You have to watch the two videos as they are embedded in the post. I would say the thesis statement of the first is "If they are capable of greater horror than you, than they are stronger than you." The thesis statement of the second seems to be, "You say you want to defeat them by all costs, but are you really prepared to be as cruel as you would need to be?"
Applying this thinking to the situation in Gaza, the blogger seems to be doubting Israel's position. Implied is the idea that if Israel is concerned with keeping people alive, its own people, Palestinian civilians in Gaza, then it is weaker than Hamas, whose whole strategy is to arrange the death of as many Palestinian civilians as possible, to ratchet up the international pressure on Israel so that it will eventually, inevitably back down. Looking for tunnels by going house to house, school to school, hospital to hospital (each placement by itself being a war crime which will not attract the notice of the UNHRC one whit) will result in more Israeli soldiers dead, and ten times as many Palestinian civilians dead, and at a certain point, those numbers *will* get too high for a culture that loves and cherishes life. Will those numbers get too high before Israel destroys a critical mass of tunnels? I would say, regrettably, almost certainly so. I'm sure the IDF has better intelligence than to be just looking for needles in haystacks, but how much better? I'm not optimistic.
So how does Israel win then? Sadly, I don't think we need to look to Apolcalypse Now, or The Untouchables for the answer--they have provided the question. I think we need to look to the conclusion of WWII, and how the US decided to finish things with the Japanese. They had seen how fanatically the Japanese had defended every scrap of volcanic rock on those G-d-forsaken atolls in the South Pacific. How much more fanatically would they defend their homeland? And think--if they were dragging lone Japanese fighters out of the jungle years after, who never got the memo the war was over--the answer is, it would have been a fight to the death over every square inch in Japan. So how to win, without taking years, and losing hundreds of thousands of American troops, and countless Japanese lives, military and civilian alike? We had to show them we could be as cruel, as indifferent to civilian lives as they were.
The nuclear weapons were the answer. The Americans had to get the attention of the Japanese, who thought of them as essentially weak, weakened by their sentimental attachment to something like morality. They had to show the Japanese a level of cruelty that the Japanese did not know they possessed. That is why the dropped the two nuclear bombs on cities. If they had dropped them in such a way as to minimize civilian casualties, the Japanese would have said to themselves, "Ahh, they have an amazing bomb, but the finger on the trigger is still a weak one." They had to show the Japanese that they could be as cruel as the Japanese. I hate like anything to say it, but I believe that if Israel cannot find in itself a level of cruelty that will get the attention and respect of Hamas, we'll be replaying this movie ad infinitum. If Israel says, "Hamas, you don't care about your civilians? Then neither do we. We have these bombs that we've been saving for Iran, that can destroy hardened concrete structures tens of feet beneath the surface of the earth, oh, and leave craters many city blocks in diameter. The next time an Israeli soldier gets killed, we're pulling out and dropping one of these on the part of Gaza where we believe the tunnels are. If you fire one rocket, we're dropping another one. Make no mistake, each one will kill hundreds of civilians, but since that seems to be your goal, we figure you won't mind. Ball's in your court." And then do it.
So, war game the outcome. I'm sure that it would take two to get the message across, because it would be so like Hamas for some wise-guy to shoot a rocket from the smoldering ruins of the first one. But then this would be over. For everyone, for pretty much good. How many iterations of this current replay of Cast Iron Lead would we, the Palestinians of Gaza be spared? How would the body counts compare in the end? Hard to say. As for the response from the precious international community, and its selective approach to morality: Israel, the war criminal? We already are. Israel the disproportionate responder? We already are. Israel, the country you wanna mess with? Not anymore.
And then what are they prepared to do?
That's there no good answer doesn't mean the question need not be asked. As Kurtz says, "It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means… it's judgment that defeats us."
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MA Art & Design with pathways / Philosophy
Course overview
The Philosophy pathway is part of our MA Art and Design programme. It is intended for graduates who want to explore the relationship between philosophy and art and design practice, and to pursue the demands that creating and thinking make upon one other. It will suit art and design graduates who want to address philosophical themes in their practice, as well as graduates from humanities and science backgrounds who want to study philosophy through questions raised by art, design, and interdisciplinarity. The pathway also considers how art and design inform philosophy as a practice. It is a research-preparation programme that can be completed either through written, theoretical coursework or through a 50:50 combination of theory and practice. Some familiarity with philosophy is desirable but not essential.
Course content
Art and design are fundamentally philosophical. In different but related ways, art and design challenge the meanings and values we attach to objects and situations, and have the potential to transform human being and action. These challenges and transformations invite philosophical appraisal, but not just in order to preserve truth or to keep things in check. Philosophy offers some of the most stimulating and influential ideas about art, the senses, technology and culture in modern thought. Putting philosophy and art and design together will generate proposals, challenges, artefacts and situations which will alter and expand what it means to think, make and experience. The content covered on the pathway typically includes:
• Key philosophers and concepts in the history of aesthetics, from Plato to the present
• The phenomenology of art and design
• Contemporary debates in the philosophy of art and design, for example (to give three):
– How might art and design constitute philosophical practices?
– What is philosophy's relationship with metaphor, imagery, architecture and technology?
– What relationship do art, design and philosophy have with writing? How does writing change what we see and think?
The programme provides thorough engagement with key concepts and questions in the philosophy of art and design, and demonstrates with reference to contemporary examples how philosophical thinking and visual practice can address one another. The cultivation of a philosophical practice through art or design is encouraged. Training in a series of cross-disciplinary research methods is given, and from February, in the second semester, readings, seminars and workshops are tailored increasingly to the philosophical interests of the group.
As a Philosophy MA (Art & Design) student, you will develop your own creative, theoretical and practical abilities, as well as a critical insight into your chosen area of philosophical enquiry. You will work towards a certificate in academic research skills, and attend a series of research seminars. Your period of study will culminate in the presentation of new, practice-based or theoretical work, and the writing of a dissertation. Furthermore, the programme will help you to develop your practical and theoretical interests in ways which allow the wider social and cultural relevance of your work to become apparent. To achieve this, you will:
• Formulate an original, professionally designed and managed project that extends your knowledge, understanding and practice within the philosophy of art and design.
• Reflect on the knowledge, skills and understanding that you need in order to develop this body of work.
• Familiarize yourself with a range of contemporary research positions within the field.
• Be involved in debate and discussion relating to contemporary aesthetics and at an advanced level.
• Toward the end of the course, produce a high-level final exhibition of practice-led or theoretically- situated outcomes and academic scholarship that synthesizes the knowledge, skills and understanding acquired on the programme.
Staff teaching on the Philosophy MA (Art & Design) programme are actively involved in producing or writing about art and design philosophically. They bring this knowledge and experience to the programme, entering into an ongoing dialogue with you in order to develop and strengthen your professional practice and intellectual outlook. On completing the programme, you will not only have a better understanding of the philosophy of art and design, but will also be able to contribute to the wider creative and cultural sector by working as an artist, designer, thinker, communicator, administrator, teacher or researcher.
We anticipate that some of our Philosophy MA (Art & Design) graduates may choose to pursue their research to doctoral level, enrolling for a PhD at Cardiff School of Art and Design or elsewhere.
This programme is offered in both full-time mode (one year duration) and part-time mode (two year duration). In both cases, the programme is delivered on one day per week during the first and second semesters (October to June). You will be expected to be self-directed at all other times, negotiating your own programme of learning with your personal tutor.
Career potential:
Graduates of the Philosophy MA (Art & Design) programme are well placed to pursue their career in a variety of professional or creative industries contexts, including art or design practice, arts administration, journalism, marketing, new media, and publishing. Others may seek to develop their careers in education and academia, for example, teaching, lecturing or further research.
Assessment is though a combination of portfolio review, essay, viva voce examination, dissertation and a final body of theoretical–practical work.
Entry requirements
Applicants should have a good BA (Hons) (or equivalent) in a related field. Some familiarity with philosophy is desirable but not essential.
Email firstname.lastname@example.com for more information.


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$22/Adv $27/Door
Doors and dinner beginning at 6:00 PM
"[A] mix of familiarity and the unknown…" – DownBeat
When you've been accompanying Branford Marsalis on bass for the better part of twenty years, you're bound to become adept at facilitating a collective vision, but as a bandleader Eric Revis branches out with an improvisational touch and thematically broad compositions. His music is akin to his bass tone: deep, rich and woody with a flawless execution, no doubt honed by those many years with Marsalis and others, such as Kurt Rosenwinkel and McCoy Tyner. Revis' playing is personal and distinctive while his skills as a band leader and composer are equally profound and inspiring. Rounding out his quartet are Darius Jones – alto saxophone; Bill McHenry – tenor saxophone and Ted Poor– drums.


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World Cup's Craziest Moments: Italy and Netherlands Overcome
Stephen Brennan, a Brit, teacher, and soccer fanatic, will tell the World Cup's craziest moments over the next few days. This is the third installment. Read the first one here and the second here.Photo by El Gráfico via Wikipedia Commons
Italy versus West Germany, Final, 1982
Italy is a team that seems to thrive on low expectations. Italians' hopes of the Azzurri achieving a third World Cup, their first since fascism ruled the country, were at a nadir as the 1982 World Cup began in Spain. They had managed only fourth place in the European Championships, held on home turf two years earlier. Moreover, a recent scandal in the Italian league had seen stars such as Paolo Rossi prosecuted and suspended for match fixing and illegal betting. That they just squeaked through the first round in '82 drew further criticism from the media, to whom the Italian players now refused to speak.
However, as the World Cup progressed, they grew in stature and were even able to conquer their old foe Brazil (whose '82 team is widely considered the best to not win the World Cup) in a thrilling 3-2 victory. Rossi's two goals against Poland in the semis sent them to the final, where they faced West Germany, whose '82 team is one of the more disliked in WC history.
However, the Italians managed to overcome the Germans 3-1 at Santiago Bernabeu in Madrid and clinch their elusive third World Cup. Rossi would score again in the match, eventually taking home the prized Golden Boot for top goal scorer of the tournament.
The most enduring image of the match came from defensive midfielder Marco Tardelli. In the 69th minute, a quick pass across the box saw Tardelli initially appear to lose control of the ball slightly before lashing it into the bottom corner. Tardelli's celebration, running, tears welling, screaming, fists clenched, is the perfect expression of the passion, emotion, and ecstasy of someone who has just scored in a World Cup final. His celebration will never be topped.
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At times, the voice is young and terrified – an 11-year-old girl who was kidnapped during the last week of school, raped for years and kept in line under threat of pain. At times, the voice is brave and...
read more
The couple charged with kidnapping Jaycee Lee Dugard in 1991 and holding her captive for 18 years have confessed to police about the crime, an attorney for one of the defendants said Monday. Phillip and Nancy Garrido are charged wit... Read Post
Jaycee Dugard recounted in graphic detail how she was restrained and raped by her captor and gave birth to his two daughters. During her 18 years of captivity after being kidnapped as a child, Dugard told ABC's Diane Sawyer, she... Read Post
A grand jury has indicted the couple accused of kidnapping and raping Jaycee Dugard on 19 counts. Phillip and Nancy Garrido initially faced 29 counts of kidnapping, rape and false imprisonment. Officials have not released any detail... Read Post


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Jinsentei first opened its doors in year 1502 and is one of the older businesses in the world (it's listed as such on wikipedia). Its prime location along the steps of Ikaho Onsen is the result of being the oldest ryokan in Ikaho. This is, however, a minus for us since we arrived by JR bus, which bus stop is... More
Japan >
Kanto >
Gunma Prefecture >
> Ikaho Onsen
Price Range (Based on Average Rates):
Number of rooms: 34
- Also Known As:
- Chigira Jinsentei Shibukawa, Japan - Gunma
#5 Top resorts Hotel in Shibukawa


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It doesn't sound like The Beach Boys' founding member Mike Love, who owns the rights to the band's name, feels like Brian Wilson, Al Jardine, and David Marks are made for these times. According to the Huffington Post, Love — who is also the band's frontman — and Bruce Johnston will be saying goodbye to Wilson, Jardine, and Marks after their reunion tour completes this week. The two announced that the dismissed members will be replaced by the band's backup crew (including Love's son Christian).
"The post-50th anniversary configuration will not include Brian Wilson, Al Jardine and David Marks," the statement reads. "The 50th Reunion Tour was designed to be a set tour with a beginning and an end to mark a special 50-year milestone for the band."
Besides the fact the the band is going their separate ways, the way in which the information was conveyed to the departing members seems off. Wilson, Jardine, and Marks reportedly didn't find out about their dismissals until after the statement was made. "I'm disappointed and can't understand why he (Love) doesn't want to tour with Al, David and me," Wilson told CNN. "We are out here having so much fun. After all, we are the real Beach Boys."
According to The Telegraph, Love made the decision based on financial motivations. "You've got to be careful not to get overexposed," he said. "There are promoters who are interested [in more shows by the reunited line-up], but they've said, 'Give it a rest for a year.' The Eagles found out the hard way when they went out for a second year and wound up selling tickets for $5."
Whether or not the decision was made based on finances, how can fans be excited to see these men dismissed so easily? The Beach Boys will never be the same without them.
Follow Lindsey on Twitter @LDiMat.
[Photo Credit: Mats Andersson/WENN]
Steven Spielberg Opens Up About His Dyslexia
Pokemon Inspires Army to Create Frightening Seizure-Inducing Gun
Should Robert Pattinson Get Back Together With Kristen Stewart?
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The OMNI sound system has 50 speakers, driven by 8 amplifiers that produce over 24,000 watts of sound through 6 channels and a giant sub-bass stack to give the audience that "you are there" feeling.
Texas Center for Inquiry
Texas Center for Inquiry 2015 Brochure - PDF
The Fort Worth Museum of Science and History is the home of the Texas Center for Inquiry. The institute provides educators with in-depth experiences in science inquiry through institutes, workshops, forums and follow-up coaching. The center's mission is to help curriculum specialist, teacher leaders and educators incorporate science inquiry into their curricula in ways consistent with the Next Generation Science Standards and the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills. For additional information: contact school services at 817.255.9416 or email email@example.com
Generous annual support for the Texas Center for Inquiry is provided by:
Professional Development Services
The School Services staff of the Fort Worth Museum of Science and History offers contract professional development services to districts or individual campuses. Call our staff and we will help you plan a customized program on your campus or here at the museum for your staff.
School Services: 817.255.9416


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Dayton Woman Struck By Lightning Watching Baseball Game
Tuesday, June 3, 2014
(Dayton, MN) -- A 48-year-old Dayton woman remains hospitalized after being hit by lightning while watching a baseball game on Saturday at Ham Lake Lions Park. Christine Kloeppner was struck just before 3 p.m. and was unresponsive when paramedics arrived on the scene. She was revived in the ambulance as she was being taken to Mercy Hospital in Coon Rapids. Family members have requested the hospital not release information about her condition.


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[Disarmament] Conference on Disarmament
Conference on Disarmament, Statement by Amb. Strohal, 19th January 2010
Thank you, Mr. President.
At the outset, allow me to congratulate you most warmely on the assumption of your functions. As outgoing and incoming Presidencies of the Conference, we have been in close consultations over the past months - and this makes me more than confident that you will preside over the resumption of our work with great engagement and circumspection. Please rest assured of my delegation's continued support to you and your P6 colleagues throughout this year.
Austria fully endorses the statement delivered by Spain on behalf of the European Union. Allow me, in addition, some more personal remarks regarding the resumption of our work.
2009 entered history as the year with the breakthrough on a Programme of Work, but equally, no subsequent work. As delegates to the Conference on Disarmament, it is ou common duty to prevent this from happening again and to prevent the CD from sliding back into its deadlock.
In my concluding remarks to last year's session, I identified some elements which had proven useful for our work, and let me summarize them briefly:
- close cooperation among the P-6;
- interactive and transparent consultations among all delegations, which constitutes a confidence building measure; and
- increased engagement of civil society and stronger interaction with them: experts, non-governmental organization, and also the media - and we certainly appreciate and support the suggestion just made by Canada.
It is our sincere hope that these elements will continue to guide our work also this year. We are convinced of the need not only to maintain and strenthen the momentum of the Conference, but also of raising to the expectations of the General Assembly, the Security Council and, even more importantly, of those created in the wider political environment, which ave just been summarized so eloquently by Mexico.
Therefore, we expect the Conference to swiftly adopt, and implement, a Programme of Work, based on the consensus of 29 May 2009.
Already in the meantime, my delegation would appreciate the opening of structured, substantive work around the core issues of ou aganda, as contained in CD/1864.
In concluding, Mr. President, I would like to wish this year's P6 - Bangladesh, Belarus, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria and Cameroon - best of success.
Thank you.


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ViewsWatchers |
Big Sandy is an unincorporated census-designated place located in McDowell County, West Virginia, USA. As of the 2010 census, its population is 168. The town's name comes from the Big Sandy River, a major tributary of the Ohio River which forms the boundary between West Virginia and Kentucky. [edit] Research Tips


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Maybe the differences could summed up with "Atheists Think" and "Christians Know"…
The Difference Between Atheists & Christians
Related posts from Unreasonable Faith:
- Reginald Selkirk
"one day" ?
- http://www.brgulker.wordpress.com brgulker
Maybe the differences could summed up with "Atheists Think" and "Christians Know"…
- thin-ice
yea, brglker, looking at your blog which gives props to Glen Beck, I'd agree, we think, and "Christians know". We don't troll your blogs, so don't troll ours.
- UrsaMinor
He's no troll. He's been posting on UF for years.
And I have to agree with his comment.
- http://www.brgulker.wordpress.com brgulker
Thanks, Ursa. Appreciated. the interwebz can be a hostile place!
- http://www.brgulker.wordpress.com brgulker
My blog gives props to Beck? Hardly. I linked to one post where Beck said something I agreed (a Libertarian approach to marriage, which gives gay people the right to marry!) in a very sarcastic tone – or at least it was sarcastic in my head when I wrote it.
If you knew me even a tiny little bit, you'd know I have precisely zero respect for Glen Beck's opinions.
You'd also know that I have been posting here for right around 4 years, just not a lot frequently (mostly because I do most of my blog reading on mobile now, which isn't all that friendly to typing).
- Jabster
You need to post at bit more brgulker … and welcome back – hopefuly of course.
p.s. Don't worry about Dan's 'trolling' posts – he needs to keep up the website traffic somehow … :-)
- Custador
It's been good to see Dan back and posting more to be honest.
- http://www.brgulker.wordpress.com brgulker
Ditto. He was the only dude blogging when I started reading here.
- UrsaMinor
True that. But let's face it, we're a tough audience.
- http://www.brgulker.wordpress.com brgulker
Awww, shucks. Thanks!
- http://www.brgulker.wordpress.com brgulker
Also, in addition to the whole reading on mobile thing, during the NBA season, most of my blogging attentions turn to the Detroit Pistons. I contribute to a handful of blogs and get into too many online debates about basketball for my own good :) In other words, my blogging energies are depleted!
- Sunny Day
How is that lame?
Atheists look to the evidence.
Christians just know and don't need any.- http://www.brgulker.wordpress.com brgulker
All you did was reiterate what Daniel said in different words.
This is the exact same type of thing a fundamentalist would say about atheists. I can totally see a fundamentalist quoting the bible in an image like this one…
"Only a fool says in his heart that there is no god…"
And going on to say,
"Maybe that's the difference between us and atheists. They're fools, and we're not."
Furthermore, Christians think. A lot of us think like atheists but arrive at different conclusions. I'm not going to get all riled up and insulted about it, because I know the point DF is trying to make. But really, it is pretty insulting.
- Mogg
I wouldn't call it lame, exactly, but as with many pithy generalisations, the truth is a bit more complicated. I've met or known plenty of thinking Christians, and even more non-thinking atheists. I wonder if that is a difference in populations, though, given that there are far fewer fundamentalist/YEC types here in Oz and more liberal leaning Anglicans and Catholics in the Christian demographic, as well as far more who would fall into the category of "apatheists" who just never thought about it.
- Kodie
This is the exact same type of thing a fundamentalist would say about atheists. I can totally see a fundamentalist quoting the bible in an image like this one…
"Only a fool says in his heart that there is no god…"
Not the exact same type of thing. The Christians who say that are exemplary non-thinkers.
- blotonthelandscape
I maintain that faith-based belief is essentially the glorification of cognitive bias, which could be summarised as Dan has. And the number of times I talk about what I "think" to a christian only to be shot down with "But you don't know! But I do ". Yeah, maybe it's a bit brash, or lacking in scope, but not "Lame".
This is not to say that all christians rely entirely on faith (hence the generalisation by Daniel might be a bit brash), but I would hazard a guess that nearly all do to some extent as a necessary foundation of their beliefs, and as a result the final content of their expressed beliefs can't be trusted, and the intellectually honest christian will always be explicit about what point "reason" stops and "faith" begins.
- UrsaMinor
My reason for thinking it lame is fairly prosaic- it displayed a suboptimal choice of words. It would have been more effective to contrast "thinking" with "believing" than with "knowing". Knowing implies that there is actual knowledge behind it; believing doesn't. And that, I think, is the heart of the intended contrast.
- Kodie
When they can admit they don't really know and that we atheists may be onto something that isn't threatening to their beliefs, I'll agree with you. Outside of that, Dan likes memes, Dan doesn't write them, and doesn't overthink this stuff anymore. I don't know if there is anything to discuss about a picture someone on the internet created in a generator that doesn't take more than 10 seconds. The Christian who made the inside one didn't really put a lot of thought into it, and thinks he won the internet. The outer one mocks it adequately to my taste. We're not saving the world.
- kessy_athena
"Atheists look to the evidence.
Christians just know and don't need any."
Really? Is that so? That's funny, because I seem t0 recall certain atheists insisting that they *know* that Bigfoot doesn't exist, even though when repeatedly asked for the evidence to back that up, we heard a deafening silence.It's an entirely legitimate criticism of Christianity that it tends to rely on a false sense of certainty in place of facts. It's not legitimate to say that Christians don't think. Or at the very least it's over the top hyperbole and stereotyping. Christians are no more monolithic a group then atheists, or any other large group. And all humans make assumptions that are not strictly justified by the known evidence, and mentally fill in the blanks in incomplete information. And all humans have a bad tendency to forget that we're doing that.
*Some* Christians are seriously fact challenged, and *some* atheists are very rational and conscientious about evidence. But I'm afraid that thinking that just embracing the label "atheist" automatically makes one smarter and better then others is simply leaving the trappings of Christianity behind while still holding fast to the underlying mindset.
- Sunny Day
"*know* that Bigfoot doesn't exist"
That must have been a different conversation, that only occurred in your head.
Belief without evidence or based on mental gymnastics is certainly a TYPE of thinking but not in an everyday use of the word.- kessy_athena
"Werewolves, Vampires and Bigfoot, whats the difference."
Sound familiar? Look, I don't mean to re-litigate that discussion. My point is simply that the real difference between thinking and knowing is in being willing to consider evidence and arguments contrary to your current opinion. And none of us can claim perfection in that.
- Kodie
The word "know" becomes meaningless. The concept "to know" becomes meaningless.
You can't call something that's never been seen "bigfoot" and say that it might exist. Something with big feet that is the subject of lore and prone to be described as smart enough to be completely elusive so much that people stage fake encounters does not exist. How do you even suppose it has big feet? Measured them?
If we go your agnostic way, then nothing is known, everything has a chance to be. You want to twist this around and say we know bigfoot does not exist? As much as elves and unicorns do not.
- kessy_athena
Actually, Kodie, I'd say you hit the nail on the head. The concept "to know" *is* meaningless. There is no certainty, ever, about anything. And that's a good thing. You don't need certainty, even if you had it, what use would it be? So why don't you try stopping clutching at it?
- Kodie
Bullshit. We don't have to waste time considering things that aren't real for the sake of not knowing them for sure.
- Theory_of_I
.."There is no certainty, ever, about anything."
So you don't know if you'll die from being decapitated? - Kodie
On a technicality, death is not a certainty upon being decapitated.
I'm nearly certain Kessy won't die from being decapitated.
http://www.nsc.org/NSC%20Picture%20Library/News/web_graphics/Injury_Facts_37.pdf - Sunny Day
"There is no certainty, ever, about anything."
Kessy why are you quoting the nincompoop character from Tim Minchen's beat poem Storm? - http://themikewrites.blogspot.com JohnMWhite
Pretty sure Descartes sorted this one out a while ago.
- Custador
"Werewolves, Vampires and Bigfoot, whats the difference?"
That's an entirely fair question, though. In all three cases it's talking about a creature for which there is existing and quite detailed mythology, but for which there's no evidence whatsoever that they exist. You're arguing that being agnostic over the prospect of an undiscovered great ape in the continental US (which has somehow left no evidence of feeding, scat, mating, dying or having any fossil ancestors) is somehow the intellectually superior position to simply disregarding the idea as mythology. If you were consistent, you'd argue the same over the idea of humans who feed on blood and hate the sunlight, yet somehow exist without leaving a trace. Because something could possibly exist, does not mean that we have to take it seriously. See for example: Russell's Teapot.
- Theory_of_I
I didn't ask about the odds Kessy would be decapitated, though assuredly people have been due to accident or intention worldwide — hope to tFSM Kessy never is — I asked if Kessy could not know with certainty that physically separating the head from the body would cause death absolutely.
Was hoping not to derail the thread too much, but yeah, I should have phrased that more carefully. - Kodie
I know how you meant it.
- kessy_athena
@Theory: No, I'm not certain that decapitation would cause death, because I'm not at all certain this universe is actually real in any objective sense. No, I'm serious, this could all well be a dream of some sort. I generally disregard that possibility in day to day life because this world acts as if it were real. At least by its own internal logic. There's a difference between saying that the possibility isn't really relevant to most day to day activities and saying the possibility doesn't exist.
@Kodie: What makes you think there's such a sharp distinction between what's real and what's not? Snopes is full of stories that inhabit the netherland between reality and unreality.
@Sunny: Sorry, I'm not familiar with Tim Minchen.
@Custy: As I recall, there are actually several real medical conditions that mimic various aspects of vampirism, such as photosensitivity. And it seems likely those conditions at least influenced the mythology. Just because a mythology has grown up around a subject that includes stories that are clearly pure fiction doesn't mean the entire subject is pure fiction. For example, the kraken is based on the very real giant squid, even though many of the stories about krakens seem to be firmly in the realm of fantasy. Once the literary provenance and lineage of a story is lost, there's really no way to untangle what's fiction and what's not other then going out and investigating the physical reality. And even then there's almost always a lot of uncertainty.
Like I said, I really don't want to re-litigate the Bigfoot discussion, but I really have to take issue with the statement that there's no evidence – there's tons of evidence, from sightings to tracks to scat and hair. It's simply low quality and anecdotal evidence. Which is exactly what you'd expect in the absence of a thorough investigation. Just like your bulldozer in the absence of evidence discussion, it all depends on what evidence you would reasonably expect to be present. The lack of tracks in the soft ground is indeed evidence of absence, *so long as you've actually gone out and looked at the ground.* You can't just say, "Well I haven't seen any tracks," without going out and checking.
- Custador
How does your reply to me do anything but back up my point that bigfoot doesn't exist?
- kessy_athena
Because neither you nor anyone else has really gone out and checked to see if there are actually any bulldozer tracks in your garden or not. You're assuming that they're aren't tracks because you didn't notice any the last time you walked by, even though you weren't really paying that much attention.
- Custador
Much like my garden, people go there every day. But this conversation has gone circular once already, so this is my last participation in it.
- Theory_of_I
C'mon, don't yu get a little weary from dragging the goalposts around? - kessy_athena
LOL, yes, Theory, solipsism. In the epistemological sense. I'm not dragging the goalposts anywhere, it just seems that I'm playing on a different pitch then you thought I was. I'm looking at the base assumptions, not the logic.
- kessy_athena
No, Custy, people do not go there every day. Do you seriously think that the entire planet is under constant human surveillance, with cameras ready to catch every event? That's completely absurd.
- Custador
…And there go the goalposts again…
- Kodie
Holy shit, this is not a dream. What are leprechauns based on? When the earth was flat and the sailors thought there were monsters if they sailed over the edge of it, explains everything I need to know about bigfoot. Don't go into the woods, you'll get eaten by a made-up monster. Are we living on the back of a turtle? Are the stars light coming through holes in a dark sheet revealing heaven beyond? Can I realign my chakras and get reincarnated as Beyoncé in the year 3000? Can I pre-born myself and choose different parents? Can I pre-meet them and keep them from getting together? I don't choose to relate to my world as if it's not a dream; I don't have a choice.
Distractions like that are what make me understand I would never dream up such a hostile experience where people make up dumb bullshit. It's dumb bullshit. Sorry if that seems ad hominem to anyone, but there are a lot of clues that eliminate the possibility that this is a dream, and it's not like I didn't think about that a lot more when I took the required core course in college, the let's-take-dumb-bullshit-dead-seriously-for-credit class. AKA the most expensive pot you can't even smoke because it comes in the form of a professor every M/W/F at 10:30-12:00.
- Theory_of_I
Well, I gotta say, using (as you do with fluency) if, might, could, maybe, perhaps, possibly etc., doesn't add real specificity to the debate, but it would make you a hell of a stock broker! ;)
- kessy_athena
Kodie, I know you've had a hard time, and I'm not trying to minimize that in any way. I've had my own difficulties, so I know where you're coming from. But I'd remind you that dreams aren't necessarily fun or pleasant. I assume you've had nightmares at some point? Even normal dreams can put you in situations that can be stressful, upsetting, annoying, or even infuriating. Just because something is all in your head, what makes you think that means it isn't real? Things that are just in your head may be different from things in external experience, but they're not somehow inferior or any less real.
(Yes, I realize that last sentence is a bit out of place in a discussion about solipsism, but I'm digressing slightly to try to address what you're saying as best I can.)
@Custy: Am I moving the goalposts or are you? The question is what sort of evidence would we expect to be present, given the current situation, right? Well, what sort of evidence would you expect if there's an animal that stays in the deep wilderness where there is very little human presence and no one has really made any concerted effort to go looking for it? There really are plenty of places that you just can't get to by car or even ATV, places that the only way to get to are to hike for days from the nearest trail big enough for an ATV.
@Theory: Do you agree that our senses aren't all that reliable? That we can often be fooled by what we think we're seeing, hearing, feeling, or experiencing? That this is the reason that eyewitness testimony isn't very reliable?
And do you agree that our only source of information about the world is through our senses? That there isn't some sort of mystical ESP that lets your mind somehow reach out and directly experience a thing?
If you agree with both of those propositions, then how can you avoid solipsism? If our only source of information about the world is unreliable and often wrong, then I don't see any reasonable alternative to acknowledging that anything we think we know about the world, including its very existence, could well be wrong.
- Custador
@ Kessy: You are. Repeatedly. And it's getting boring.
- Kodie
The dividing line between reality and fantasy is built on the false perceptions we're capable of as animal beings. Our brains do things that keep us focused on survival and without perfect knowledge, build up a little stock of conveniently good guesses. Those guesses can be tested and we can know. The way you're thinking about it is the flaw of self-centeredness. Of course, primary experience is focused on the self surviving. But we're not part of a grand story with ourselves as the main character. That narrative crap is not real. Believing that this could all be a dream doesn't do anything.
What it is is a short-lived experience, and yeah, we can be self-centered and inwardly focused. That doesn't relieve us from the reality that we're animals. We think we live forever, that's fantasy. We think this isn't "really happening" as a coping mechanism, because it is. How important is it in the long range? Not very. That doesn't mean it's a dream, just like that doesn't mean there's a god. I don't know everything – that's how I know this isn't a dream. I know myself well enough that I could not come up with all of humanity, nor would I choose to. Some of it is far too complicated with too many moving parts for one single mind to conceive of its completeness. How could I invent so many governments, so many technologies, so many new ways for a person to be awful.
It's not just because of my personal experience. I really think this is a thing to ponder once and then get along in life having chunked it over as one of many fantastical alternatives, but it's not satisfactory nor really plausible. I exist, and you exist, and we are made of matter in the universe. We're relatively amoebas, kind of feeling our way around – is that fire or just a lamp? WE CAN KNOW. Is that real or a dream? With a healthy brain, we can know. We don't know everything, such as even why we do dream when we sleep. I do know that there is no internal consistency in my dreams such as an owl caught in a cobweb and screeching to get free that night I helped move a thousand pieces of furniture. There are things in real life that may seem about as weird but aren't dreams, because I'm not the one making them up. To say I'm dreaming means you don't exist. It's a hypothetical non-reality thought exercise, but not something to be considered seriously, and you who don't exist are like a god-botherer, thinking Pascal's Wager is the winning move. My eyes hurt from rolling so much.
- Kodie
Just in case it wasn't clear to you, I'm relatively insulted by the prospect that I'm rejecting your premise on the mere grounds that my life has been shit. I'm rejecting it because it is the premise of a space cadet.
- Sunny Day
I wondered where the fuck, " Kodie, I know you've had a hard time" was coming from and how it had anything to do with hairy vampire zombies with bigfeet.
- Kodie
How can I know what nightmares are when I'm not real. Kessy knows I've had a hard time because my face is next to every problem I've ever described, but that's not my real face.
- Jabster
"Kodie, I know you've had a hard time, and I'm not trying to minimize that in any way."Well that isn't fucking patronising in anyway … well done.
- Bill
" No, I'm not certain that decapitation would cause death, because I'm not at all certain this universe is actually real in any objective sense."
I once had a very similar thought. It came to me about two hours after taking a hit of blotter acid.
- kessy_athena
Kodie, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was accusing you of dismissing anything because you've had problems, and I certainly didn't mean to sound patronizing. I was trying to respond to "I would never dream up such a hostile experience where people make up dumb bullshit." which I took to mean something along the lines of, if this is a dream, why would I dream such a nasty world? I was trying not to sound like I was being dismissive of what you've been through. I can only offer my sincerest apologies that I missed the mark.
Can you or Jabster or anyone else give me a suggestion of how I should have put it? Guys, I'm not being sarcastic or snarky here, I realize I messed up, and I'm asking if anyone can tell me how to do better.
- Elemenope
"There is no certainty, ever, about anything." Kessy why are you quoting the nincompoop character from Tim Minchen's beat poem Storm?
The nincompoop character in "Storm" took that actually correct statement and drew the probably incorrect conclusion that because we can't be completely certain, all opinions must have equal validity.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that "to know" is a useless term, because even if we are all merely the dreams of a butterfly, the term is being uttered within the epistemological context to which it is being applied; after all, if we were within such a dream we are still observers who at least can test the parameters of that existence, such as it is. Perhaps better would be merely to stipulate that "to know" should be understood as eschewing certainty, and that the strength of a claim of knowing is dependent upon the probability of it being correct given that all possible alternative hypotheses cannot ever be eliminated.
Throw a little Bayes in for color if numbers make you feel better about the notion.
- Sunny Day
I'm sorry.
When I replied I knew the bigfoot peeve would be escalated again.
I hoped for a different result.
- Theory_of_I
>"…how can you avoid solipsism?
As the extreme of self-centeredness, I wouldn't spend the effort to consider it. Not going to feed the epitome of arrogance, no way.- http://themikewrites.blogspot.com JohnMWhite
That's a little unfair. Just because somebody is willing to mull over solipsism doesn't mean they are the epitome of arrogance and some sort of self-centred monster.
- Theory_of_I
Ah, but perhaps you should take that up with Kessy — I'm just a wee figment of a dream, and can't be held responsible.
- Kodie
There's a big difference between admitting our senses aren't 100% reliable and asserting that may mean our senses are 0% reliable, and expecting to be taken seriously for the latter.
- http://themikewrites.blogspot.com JohnMWhite
That's an irrational and emotional response, Theory_of_I. Boo hoo, somebody suggested you might be a figment of their imagination. Are you so insecure that you can't just let that thought experiment lie and have to get all worked up about it?
And Kodie, there is clearly a difference, but that difference doesn't make somebody a selfish monster.
- Custador
Clearly you're all just figments of my imagination. Which does make me wonder what the hell is wrong with me…
- Kodie
I didn't call anyone a monster? But proposing the idea that you're the only person who really exists can't be said to be unselfish. It's a concept that seems really neat if you never thought about it before, but if you think about it enough, you should get to the other side and not propose it seriously. Especially to defend whether we can "know" anything like one's favorite mythical monster creature. I feel stupider just talking about it. If other people don't exist, is it ok if I killed them? It's not even ok for me to say that hypothetically. It's alarming to even think.
So maybe it's fun to talk about and think about until you realize what a horrible person you could just psych yourself into believing it's ok to be. It's not a necessary end, it's just one thing a sufficiently deluded solipsist might think and act on.
- kessy_athena
Look, I'm not saying that I think you're all figments of my imagination. I choose to believe that at an absolute minimum the people I interact with are real. Largely because I find the thought of being truly alone in the universe absolutely horrifying. What I'm doing is recognizing that I am simply choosing to believe it, that I don't actually know and I can't know. And that I could be wrong. If I didn't do that, then really what would be the difference between me and Christians who say something to the effect of, "God has to be real because the world would be a horrible place without him," or, "because otherwise there would be no reason to be a good person," or, "I couldn't manage life without my faith."? If they don't work as arguments for the existence of God, then why would they work as arguments for the existence of the universe? Remember, this discussion began over the idea that atheists think while Christians know. It's impossible to approach the world without making assumptions, and if you really want to be truly rational about it you *have* to consciously recognize where you're making assumptions and keep in mind that those assumptions could be wrong.
"There's a big difference between admitting our senses aren't 100% reliable and asserting that may mean our senses are 0% reliable." Okay, so let's posit for the moment that are senses are neither 100% nor 0% reliable, but somewhere in between. What % reliable are they? And how would we go about determining that? How would we test it? And more importantly, how do we tell which bits are reliable and which aren't? If you devise an experiment to test how reliable our senses are, the only way you can find out the results of that experiment is through your senses. Choosing to think that those things our senses tell us that reinforce our view of how the world is are reliable while those that challenge that view are not is simply a form of confirmation bias.
- Theory_of_I
I apologize if my (apparently failed) attempt at humor caused you to put your bully boots on.
If you noted the upthread banter, Kessy likes to move the goalposts. I simply didn't want to be dragged along, so I was making an exit. A little strident? Perhaps, but like you, I believe I'm allowed an opinion, thanks.
- Sunny Day
Conversation is initially bright and light-hearted
But it's not long before Storm gets started:
"You can't know anything,
Knowledge is merely opinion"
She opines, over her Cabernet Sauvignon
Some un-hippily
Empirical comment made by me"Not a good start" I think
We're only on pre-dinner drinks
And across the room, my wife
Widens her eyes
Silently begs me, 'Be nice…'
A matrimonial warning
Not worth ignoring
So I resist the urge to ask Storm
Whether knowledge is so loose-weave
Of a morning
When deciding whether to leave
Her apartment by the front door
Or a window on her second floor. - Elemenope
I likes me some Minchin, but he's satirizing people who don't properly understand the philosophic method and thus mistake the field of thought experiment results as the actual breadth of plausible, applicable truth.
That isn't what's happening here (and wasn't what happened in the Bigfoot thread, either, for that matter), despite some folks' best efforts to ignore that fact. Sneering is a lazy substitute for engagement, and in my experience among the atheist community usually a desperate attempt to avoid engaging with this particular point:
What I'm doing is recognizing that I am simply choosing to believe it, that I don't actually know and I can't know. And that I could be wrong. If I didn't do that, then really what would be the difference between me and Christians who say something to the effect of, "God has to be real because the world would be a horrible place without him," or, "because otherwise there would be no reason to be a good person," or, "I couldn't manage life without my faith."? If they don't work as arguments for the existence of God, then why would they work as arguments for the existence of the universe? Remember, this discussion began over the idea that atheists think while Christians know. It's impossible to approach the world without making assumptions, and if you really want to be truly rational about it you *have* to consciously recognize where you're making assumptions and keep in mind that those assumptions could be wrong.
The part in bold there really seems to go up people's asses sideways. Perhaps because it neatly undercuts the conceit that we atheists are so superior to believers at thinking because we examine our assumptions. Newsflash: Nobody is particularly good at that, but the people who are worst at it are usually the ones loudly protesting that they're the best because they take personal umbrage when it is pointed out that they have failed to do so, making it an extra (and particularly nasty) psychological barrier to actually confronting the point. It is a curious thing that every time Kessy or anybody else for that matter starts visiting the predominant assumptions here, people get very whiny very fast.
- http://themikewrites.blogspot.com JohnMWhite
@Theory_of_I – bully boots? The irony. And I never said you're not entitled to an opinion, I said the way you expressed it was, to me, overly harsh. Really, this is pathetic. You have not taken long at all to break down into acting like a petulant child. Grow up. Disagreements happen, and sometimes people think in a manner different from yourself. Kessy allegedly moving the goalposts may be irritating but that's no reason to just drop any attempt at a mature discussion with a third party who doesn't even have any skin in the game.
Elemenope hit the nail on the head. There's a lot of whining going on, and I'm surprised. I thought the folks involved were bigger than that. As an aside, I worry about getting stuck in that rut too, of being so comfortable in my assumptions that I end up becoming swiftly hostile to the slightest challenge and start swiping at everybody who doesn't automatically agree with the orthodoxy to which I have become accustomed or my assaults on outliers. I do try to look at another viewpoint from time to time, though to be honest the outright bullying of Kessy that I'm seeing creep in around here is pushing my buttons. We're above that. I hope.
- Kodie
I think of myself as someone who has considered a lot of alternate possibilities a long time ago. What I'm not very good at doing is explaining that sufficiently. I don't think I'm not questioning my assumptions, I'm saying that I did that already, I crossed it off the list; this is not a dream.
I don't think this is turning into a fruitful philosophical discussion. I think it's turning into "whoa dude, how can you know-know anything!?" We're puny animals with a huge ego about our own species. We're a lot dumber than we think we are, but we're capable in part because of the efforts of a few self-selected specialists who actually do compile what information we can gather. I'm a consumer class. That means I use technology without knowing how it's made or how it works. I'm capable of having a layman's grasp of how the signals fly through the air, but that doesn't mean I dreamed it up that it could and sort of gloss over the how in my dream.
Our imaginations are powerful. What-if's are a great way to get out of the mud. My concept of time is weird/not weird. Scientists who study it tell me something radically different about time than I perceive. How do I get over that? I don't know. To some extent, what I think of philosophical things including some religions is the framework. People who are religious organize all their thinking according to a framework. I don't know if I have a similar framework at all. Am I rejecting god only because it doesn't fit on my framework? Probably.
Think about building a house without a plan. You start at the bottom and go up. How do we get to the second floor? Stairs. I feel like I've climbed the stairs in this house of "this is just a dream" and it arrived at the second floor landing with no rooms. It wasn't a long hallway with a lot of rooms to go in, it was a dead end. A wall. Same with god or gods. I find the limitless things that have to be true in order for the first premise to be true to be focused on the imagination. What if we're in a petri dish? What do bacteria in a petri dish think they are in? They can't see the big picture. Are you saying we can't see the big picture? If this is a dream there has to be a reason. If we are studying bacteria in a lab, that is a reason – bacteria unaware, or possibly aware. Paranoid that they are being watched and studied at any time, when really only some of them, some of the time. Like god! Maybe bacteria have organized themselves according to arbitrary rules they think will please the scientist and we are not observing them naturally at all. They are replicating like Duggars out of some misplaced reverence to the scientist, and our job is to smite them all. Well the diseases. And they teach the little cells they are all diseases. If they home-school themselves and replicate like I said, they do everything right in hopes that the human will spare them and bring them home when they die, close to ourselves, the very lucky bacteria do what. They get inside us and make themselves comfortable and try to kill us. Oh well.
I'm not a scientist obviously. The stairs go nowhere. If you think some of us are separated from the herd to be studied and manipulated by external effects, then what?
- kessy_athena
Yanno, Kodie, I basically agree with you – the stairs don't really go anywhere, solipsism is a dead end, and it's not a very useful way to look at the world. It's useful and important to me personally because it's a great reminder to myself that the world isn't necessarily anything like the way it seems to me.
The thing with rationalism is that it's like loosing weight. If you just go on some fad diet for a while, you'll probably loose some weight, but you'll put it back on as soon as you stop. To really and permanently loose the weight, you have to change your lifestyle in a consistent and sustainable way. Rationalism isn't something you can do once and you're set for life with better beliefs. It's something you have to work at everyday, it's something you really need to change the basic way you approach the world in order to do properly.
Elemenope referred to the conceit that atheism is superior to Christianity. I think that as a general statement, atheism does tend to be superior to Christianity – certainly to the evangelical fundie sort of Christianity. But – and it's a big but – to really improve you have to keep working at it, keep questioning things, keep looking behind the curtain. Getting complacent and self satisfied can undo all the progress you've made. It's not easy, and none of us are ever going to be able to do it perfectly, but you can do it better if you put out the effort.
- Kodie
I think where we all go wrong is assuming our assumptions are unexamined. I mean each other's. It's like when a Christian comes here with some new zinger. Did you ever like to think you're being watched and someone loves you and answers your prayers and guides you through life and that you have a grand purpose other than just being some bug on a rock? Yeah, I like to think that but it's not true. Where is this coming from that assumes just because I reject something I haven't given it enough thought and came out the other side thinking it's missing a great deal of probability? Of course, where Elemenope comes in and assumes we are taking you at your word and not just shooting the shit here, and that's true. What I like about Elemenope is that he pinpoints (usually) where the argument has erred and clarifies it. I don't get that from you, and I don't see where he sees it in this case.
It's doodly noodly to talk about shit like what-if, like Twilight Zone episodes and some other shows that I like to watch because they play with these ideas in an entertaining format. I do think that humans can be a little too self-satisfied how much "we" know, when most people are content to let other people do the knowing for them. One of the things I like to do lately is imagine it's a long time ago. It's really hard to do. Whatever I think I know about the past is from movies. It's dramatic and romanticized, and I can't wrap my head around an ordinary day in some past era. I have a much clearer picture of an ordinary day in a past era if it has been filmed, like a newsreel. I have one of the most vivid imaginations of anyone I know, and I am known by anyone who knows me to be a chronic overthinker. I may not have read enough books or studied these subjects in school, but I do pay attention to some of my responses when someone says a philosopher said that or I have stumbled upon some Law or Razor or something. It's almost like we take for granted we can learn from reading, but we can also learn a lot by thinking and exercising our skills at it. I do that. Maybe I fuck it up. Maybe I'm on the wrong course. Maybe I don't know the right words to describe what I'm thinking about, or convince anyone how well I think I thought it through. Do you need power tools to saw a table in half; do you need to know how to build a fire from two sticks to keep warm? No, and hardly ever; but, it's quicker, and you never know.
Last night, I was half-watching an episode of the The Twilight Zone and it just maybe because I wasn't paying that much attention, just figured it out today. This cowboy murderer gets time-machined to the 1960s and he can't figure out the jukebox or a television. What kind of technology in 80 years might frighten us? I think it's weird because he already knew he was in the future and shouldn't have freaked out. That's not really the point of that play, but the thing about reality is different than dreams is – could someone from the 1800s have a terrifying nightmare of a picture box with a cowboy in it challenging (what he thinks is) him to a duel and then outdrawing it? My dreams are not that inventive, but an inventor's might be. A giant ostralligich chasing me is made of two animals that exist, it's not that far out. While a platypus is kind of fucked up, I've seen one in a zoo. Even though I've seen a model of a blue whale, I still feel weird that they live in the ocean and how big the ocean really is and how big whales are… I've ridden an elephant, but that's about as big as an animal should be before it starts to be weird, just like small animals (mice and anything smaller) starts to creep me out.
Anyway, I think reality is real but whacked out. I live on a fucking planet, I'm flying through the universe right now. I don't think most people really let that sink in. It rains and they get bummed out, they see that star and it's like a tree, it's part of the landscape. It's not really fucking far, and as shadows get long in the afternoon, that's inside their day, it seems to have detached itself from the ordinary routine of a whole planet. To think this is a dream is to be self-absorbed, inward-looking, hypothesizing that you are wise enough or grand enough to make sure that the earth remembers to turn while all this other shit's going on. Have you ever stopped the passage of time in a dream? I have stopped the passage of time in a dream because that's the experience of sleep.
- http://www.seditiosus.blogspot.com Schaden Freud
Yeah, I get where that sentence is coming from, but I found it a bit lame too. For a zestier zinger, I'd suggest something more along the lines of "Atheists think. Yep, that's the difference right there."
Some religious apologist created the inner frame, mocking the belief that the world has no creator.
Then some atheist (apologist?) answered with the outer frame, mocking the position of the religious.It's not the same person making both statements.
- Jer
This does tie in nicely with the photo from yesterday: "If ur faith is big enough facts dnt count"
- Michael
I mean, the joke makes sense–religions like Christianity frequently offer a misplaced sense of certainty, convincing "believers" that they in fact know things they could not possibly know, but obviously most Christians aren't so certain.
I suppose there are probably a handful of atheists that claim certain knowledge too, but it's surely far less common.


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Amtrak Downeaster extension begins Nov. 1
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Train accidents down sharply in six months
Train accidents on U. S. railroads in this year's first six months declined 22.8% to 811 compared with the same period in 2011, according to the Federal Railroad Administration's Office of Safety…
BNSF touts Bakken field capacity expansion
BNSF Railway said Tuesday it has increased capacity this year to enable the railroad to haul 1 million barrels of oil per day out of the Williston Basin in North…
July employment up over year; down from June
U.S. Class I railroads employed 162,006 workers in mid-July, up 1.94% from July 2011, but down 0.71%, or 1,153 workers, from mid-June, according to data released by the Surface Transportation…
TSI opens new railcar repair shop
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FYI to the person in charge at Telltale of naming the game shortcuts that are installed in the Windows Start Menu and desktop. Why can't Telltale standardize on a naming convention?
First it is frustrating that some of the older games don't even install a shortcut in the start menu, but only on the desktop. It's even more frustrating to not have the episode number in the name. It would be nice to have them named this way, so they are organized in the Start Menu. When I installed the latest Episode 3 of Sam & Max, the shortcut was just placed in my "Games" folder, instead of the default Telltale Games folder in the start menu.
Another example is Tales of Monkey Island, that is in start menu as "Tales of Monkey Island Chapter 1 - Launch of the Screaming Narwhal". See how the Chapter number is after the product name? This is inconsistent with Sam & Max that shows up as "Episode 101 - Culture Shock". I like everything organized, and this would save users some time and frustration.
Sorry...I don't mean to nitpick, but it looks unprofessional to not have some type of consistency in the game names, and also in the Program Files (x86) directory. Also, Season 3 was not named Season 3 in Program Files directory, but "Devil's Playhouse" by default!
Sam and Max - Season One
Sam and Max - Season Two
Sam and Max - The Devil's Playhouse


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What a Lying POS Maggot you are. Your Proof of this latest Lie confused trans whatever you are?? Well, are you pretending to be a man or woman? Afraid to answer, Lying Cretin?<quoted text>
That's something I forgot about. When I first started arguing with you, you kept wanting to talk about lesbians. You even made buddies with that thing that had a sex change and, you were trying to find out how she/he did it. LMAO, I forgot what a mess you are.
Oh yeah, you forgot how to lie? I think not. THAT is a constant in your posts.


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I have my pod hd 400 set up with the 4 cable method to a Vox AC30C2, and for some reason I can not change to the loop function, nor the A, B, C, D function. I only get to change the effects. Is this a problem when using 4CM because of the FX loop?
Loop Function With 4 Cable Method Problem Pod Hd 400
Started by
, Sep 23 2013 09:29 AM
loop function 4 cable method
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Thank you Democratic PartySubmitted by 100%Republican (not verified) on Fri, 05/28/2010 - 9:58am.
Even though I am a registered Republican, I have to applaud the Democratic Party for taking the stand they have on this issue. Thank you for doing the right thing and what is best for the citizens. »
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MJM rules. My first order was here within 2 or 3 days and although it got mixed up, it was still good and I'm very happy with the purchase. The...Read More ->
If you ask me why I shop at MJM, it is not because they have the lowest prices (but the do), it is not because they offer free shipping (but they do...Read More ->


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I know that some of you will read this and think in disgust "Why is that kid adding to another thread",I hope that you all will see what im trying to do here.Please.I also hope that the mod of this board does not delete this thread.I just want to take a minute to Wish Mike,NEM..Warm Wishes and a speedy recovery with whatever he may be dealing with at this present time.Let us cast aside his previous antics and start over.If he is to be welcomed back to the main boards.Let us start the process of healing.Find the good in your hearts to forgive the man of his wrongdoings.As,Im sure you would want to the same done for you.
The very first day I came on this forum Nem called me every name he calls Bush and thats going some, thats when I said to myself, I like this guy, I in turn called him an a$s hole, a f-cking dingy democrat and a an old fool, he never ran squealing to the moderators. The people that can't take Nems posts are a bunch of Sissy F-cking Crybaby's, now that Nem has been punished they can all Masturbate and Suck Their thumbs. WAaaaaaaaaaah I want my Mommy, Nem called me a name, I always thought "football people" were tough guys, "f-cking crybabys". STOOL PIGEONS. :bricks:
Ian banned NEM because he saw his posts, not because of any snitching. If there's a crazy lady in a supermarket screaming and swearing at everyone, there comes a time when she needs to be politely removed for the sake of the other shoppers. It's the same thing here, if the forums degenerate into constant fighting, it won't be fun for the people who want to talk football. There are plenty of places you can go for that kind of stuff, but Ian wants this place to be a certain way and it's his right to make sure it stays that way.
I said that in another post that if Ian saw that his forum was in anyway being put in troulble that he has every right to do what he did and even if he did it on his own he has that right and did what he thought was right. BUT, as I understand it the "crybaby's" were stooling, they put the heat on because Nem was getting under their skin. If I am wrong you can bet I will hear about it.
NEM, I agree with 100% of your political posts, and about 95% of the football ones. Don't curb the passion because of foolios. The personalities on this board are what makes it great. If you need a cutman in your corner, I'm on it. -HD
What honestly concerns me NEM at this point, is you won't let it go.. Ian has already locked 2 nowhere threads on this board.. you are gonna get banned completely, you have alread been banned from Pats Planet and KFFL. This is a trend, so take note. If this is so important to you play by the rules, stop blaming other people and take responsibility for your behavior. No one is paying attention to the BOR argument, you have exhibited this behavior time and time again, but you refuse to take a good hard look at what you are doing to make some changes. It has been alluded to that you are going through some tough times, that happens to most of us, but it does not excuse what you are doing.. the only person who can make it different is you. Keeping this conflict up on this board under other threads will only lead to the inevitable. If you are as passionate as you say you are, take the big step and knock off your crap. Stop being baited and stop acting like an easy mark, you have too much passion and knowledge for the Pats to be where you are right now. Just make the change, we do not need to know how or why, just freaking do it man.
Go F*Ck Yourself Prick here is your spaces you twit does that make you feel better? You ******* moron


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Thursday, January 13, 2011 - 10:29am
San Francisco's GLBT History Museum is first of its kind.
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The museum has signed a five year lease on the property and is asking for donations and volunteers to help with costs.


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The cable modem is just a transparent bridge and will not show on a tracert. More information here on the tracert first hop address. »homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h. ··· ml#ubrip From Stan Gunn's post here. got feedback? by nozero


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Locate your car every time you park! Car Sleuth is an easy to use car locator app that gives you Map, Radar and Compass views so that you can quickly find your lost car. It also has built-in Bluetooth functionality which listens for the disconnect of your specified Bluetooth device, immediately saving your location.
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Canadian Antler WTOBL 8-Light Real White-Tail Large Oblong Chandelier
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Product Description
Available while supplies last.
A great chandelier for a dining room, over a kitchen island, bar, or a pool table, this gorgeous oblong whitetail chandelier is sure to please!
Materials: | Real Antlers | |
Voltage: | 120 volt | |
Installation: | Dry Locations [Explain] | |
Listing: | , Quick Ship, Duty Free in Canada | |
Specialty Chandelier Type Chandeliers come in a wide variety of shapes and styles. More common types include Candle-Style, Crystal, Williamsburg, and Wrought Iron among others. | Specialty Chandelier Type | Oval Chandelier, Candle-Style Chandelier |
Number of Lights Refers to the number of lights on a given fixture. Choose from a wide variety of different fixtures ranging from 1 - 6+ lights. | Number of Lights | 6+ Lights |
Bulb sold separately
Dimensions & Weights
Chain: | 36 inches |
Wire Length: | 3 feet 6 inches |
Height: | 17 inches |
Minimum Width: | 25 inches |
Maximum Width: | 26 inches |
Maximum Length: | 34 inches |
Minimum Length: | 33 inches |
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