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best commercial greenhouses?
Hi All,
I have yet another of the "I want to start a green business" questions for you. Despite the preponderance of advice to the contrary, we are moving to a 7 acre place and wanting to start a nursery. I'm looking for recommendations for a greenhouse that can be heated efficiently, which in my zone (6) probably means double-walled poly. I have a couple catalogs, but would really appreciate advice from the folks here who are already operating greenhouses. Company names? What to look for? Pitfalls? Companies with best reputation, reliability, follow through? Stuff I'm not thinking of? Also, we will be in a rural area where the only available fuel source will be oil or probably propane. Recommendations for fuel sources and/or heater models? What is a good size to start with? We had originally been thinking of growing orchids, but I think it would be better to try to get something out the door this coming spring. We were thinking of hanging baskets or combination planters. If we can generate some income, then we can think of a second house with a longer term crop... I suppose the third option is to put up a cold frame and overwinter perennials planted from plugs this summer. Or should we punt for a year and have my partner work for a grower next season? I think it's too late for this year.
TIA for any advice y'all care to share. I've been lurking for a while now, and I'm still apparently crazy enough to try this. Can you tell I'm having a humongous case of the willies about it? I'll be commuting to my day job, and my partner will be on site. This arrangement will hold until I can afford to quit, which will likely be never... Stupidly, I'm the plant person, but my job pays more than his, and he works from home anyway.
>Despite the preponderance of advice to the contraryI talked to a small local grower yesterday who also produces field crops as well who isn't running his greenhouse this year because propane is too expensive. Likewise I've heard floriculture operations are closing because they think they soon won't be able to make a profit, due to cost of fuel making their products cost more than the market is willing to pay. Before making a big outlay I would definitely make sure there is a good prospect of being able to sell my product for a decent return.
Thanks bboy. Yes, it seems that the industry has gotten even tougher in the year or so that we have been batting this around and planning. I've met with some local retail garden center/landscaper types, and they don't have heated houses. They do have a poly structure that they use to bring on bare root shrubs and plugs, but no heat.
And for those of you who are wondering: yes, I read Tony Avent's book. My partner has been in his own business for years, and is also pretty good with the mechanicals, and I have a decent knowledge of plants. My partner is convinced we can do it -- which is a good thing, because I'm not feeling the optimism right now. I've always known this was risky, but I'm really beginning to question my sanity. When big, established places are closing, the rank amateur has to wonder...
OK... Was the snark really necessary? I asked a straight question, expressed my appreciation for your reply, and probably a bit too much of my current angst. Not sure why that got this response.
If anyone else has anything constructive to add, like a favorite greenhouse/coldframe manufacturer, feel free to chime in.
I can't give you any advice on which greenhouses are best. I chose to build my own from wood and covered it in triple wall poly. Total cost ws about $13k. I have another $1500 to spend on heaters, fans and electrics. So really in the end it will be $15k for a 52x18 greenhouse. I could have gone cheaper and used a metal frame covered with double poly film, but I wanted a more substantial structure that didn't have plastic fluttering in the wind. I want the nursery to have a certain look and feel.
The "is there a market" question is a tough one. You can anlayze things to death and never come up with a solid answer. I think in the end you have to learn how to produce as high a quality for a as little cost as you can with the knowledge you have and go for it. The worst that can happen is you will lose some money and learn something.
Had dinner with a couple friends. One owns a nursery. Said the growth in plant market has finally fallen off, after many years. I was also told by somebody else--a retail nursery worker--awhile back that gardening is no longer America's Number One Hobby, its place having been taken by Eating in Restaurants(!). Same party was making a display of Asian pottery while we spoke, which they said was hot because people were buying condos and gardening in planters instead of buying a house with a yard.
Still plenty of new houses visible here, but I do notice they often nearly fill the lot. Another local factor at work is that Seattle has now mandated that new houses have off-street parking; combine this (driveway filling up half of front yard) with the house nearly filling the lot to begin with and it means there is not a heckuva lot--so to speak--of gardening space left. Not surprisingly, new plant selections coming on the market are often dwarf or even miniature.
Nora: do you want to sell wholesale or retail? will you take plants to the local Farmers Market? what is your outlet?
although greenhouses across the country are in a pinch because of fuel, there is still a market for plants! you need to find your niche, and find a profitable niche. Perhaps it is specialty annuals, trough gardens, unusual high end container combinations, etc - perhaps something that appeals to the high end garden center.
Is there a commercial flower grower association in Washington state? Or a nursery/landscape association with flower growers who are part of the organization? I'd highly recommend joining, participating in education sessions, etc - anything you can do to find out more about the industry in your state/city and how you can fit in, before you get crazy building houses, etc.
good luck to you!!!! PP
Nora - . I have a 16x24 Atlas GH double poly, and was very satified with the good customer Service I received when ordering and building my GH. Atlas has many larger types and sizes avaiable, and would recommend to any one starting out.
For me heating with propane has become very expensive. My GH is mostly a hobby. I have a Modine 75.000 btu lp gass heater that vents to outside and last year it cost me close to $1000 to heat my little GH - maintained at around 45o F . There was lots of talk and controversy on the GH forum about not vented gas heaters. With proper venting some of the smaller nurseries in my area have used with great sucess - It may be worth furture discussion on that forum Building permits are something to look into in your area. My location was a little more residential that yours , but the township was very strict about permits and ensuring that the snow load was adequete.
Wish you best of luck in your venture. Mike
FarmTek deluges us with catalogs full of greenhouses, each one proclaiming to be the "best for professionals."
If restaurant dining has replaced gardening as "America's #1 Hobby," maybe we should use greenhouses for growing gourmet produce to sell to the restaurants. Arugula anyone?
I'm laughing at your comment Cady. I have at least one book that advises doing exactly that. But I think the large hydroponic outfits would eat my lunch -- if not my arugula.
We will definitely get in touch with the local Ag extension office. NJ seems quite keen to keep the few farmers they have left. The legislative landscape is surprisingly friendly to farming. We already have permission to build two 24x96 structures, if we so desire. Anything more will require a trip to the planning board. We were told it's essentially a rubber stamp though, at least up to the impervious coverage limit, which is a percentage of the 7 acres. We actually backed out of a purchase last year because it was in a restricted area for bulding (Highlands Preservation Area for those who know NJ).
As for the other questions, I'm not sure we've identified our target market yet, but we've been batting around a bunch of ideas, including high end container combinations, which is something I really enjoy doing. But unless we have a heated house, it seems to me that this will be problematic. As noted elsewhere on this forum, most people want their plants so early in the season that it would be impossible to sell anything tender without heat. Which brings me to another question: If you don't have any heat, then how do you get perennials/plants ready for the spring rush? I mean, my local garden center will be selling perennials in a week's time, and mine are barely above the ground. A poly tunnel will speed things up, but by how much? I guess you just sell whatever is in season, when it's in season?...
I hadn't initially thought about farmer's markets, but we can do that, if that's what it takes. I've logged many hours behind a sales table, so it won't be anything new. Makes it hard to be tending your plants though, and there's only two of us. Do those of you who've done this regard it as your permanent way fo doing business, or as a way to build exposure for your establishment?
I get lots of the Farm Tech catalogs, but I'm inferring from Cady's comment that they are not the way to go?
Thanks for the input guys.
At the time I purchased my polycarbonate they had a sale and the triple wall was $150 more than the double wall. On of a $4000 purchase it seemed like the smart thing to do.
Who are the rich oregonians growing plants on 5 acres?
Mike, what was the cost of your greenhouse and what is it glazed with? Also what are your min temps in the winter?
I agree about the Atlas houses I have 10 houses and 3 different brands and the Atlas are my favorite.Farm markets and Flea markets are a great way to get out there and make some money instead of waiting for people to come to you . I do 4 a week , It is about 1/3 of my income. And yes you do need some source of heat. You want to be ready to roll when that first glimmer of nice weather hits your area. Works For Me Upnortdareh
There is nothing wrong with the Farm Tek products as far as I know. My observation is only that they have a huge diversity of greenhouses, so you'd likely want to do some homework to determine what kind is going to work best for you and give the best return on your investment.
They have a number of different sizes and shapes in polycarbonate or sheet plastic; metal vs. wood vs. recycled plastic frames; etc. I'd compare the longivity of one material over another, its efficiency in retaining/releasing heat, the amount of light it allows through and other factors.
We've come a long way since the wood/putty glazing and wood/coal burners in terms of choice, but you really do have to weigh the different options against the size and scope of your plans and the funds available for initial outlay.
This is on my mind as well, as I'm looking into the feasibility of getting a greenhouse for maintaining my garden-install stock over winter and other peripheral uses.
There was a wholesale perennial operation near me until recently. Couple of winters ago they had 24 houses collapse under the weight of the snow. They liquidated in June, mostly due to poor management practices.
For the money the best poly house I know of is called "StormKing" and there used to be a dealer in Red Bank NJ who sold them called XS Smith. You could drive a tank over them and they will not collapse.
I have a friend who has a 22 acre nursery in central MD. The container portion is entirely irrigated by well. He is really sweating during droughts. You must also have quality water, what is pH, what is iron content? In my state we are required to recapture runoff irrigation, how about you? Can tractor-trailer get in, turn around and get out of your place?
These questions may not seem important to you now but they will be.
"We had originally been thinking of growing orchids" I am glad that you canned that idea. Unlike years ago, every big box and grocery store sells orchids. Same thing with poinsettias.
One thing that you have going for you is that NJ is a heavily populated state. Northern NJ is close to market. Best of luck to you,
I formerly worked for a grower that had bunch of StormKing's by XSmith. I would probably purchase that kind myself given the choice. Nice high ceilings for hanging baskets, gothic shape for snow load, any length you want.
If you haven't already, I would call Griffin Greenhouse & Nursery Supplies and ask for a catalog (www.griffins.com). I think their catalog (and the catalogs of some other suppliers) are really good resources. They show a variety of greenhouse types and sizes...it might help you figure out what you need to consider.
Thanks so much for the help everyone. I'm in the last throes of moving, so not too much computer time to be had around here... I just came in from digging plants from my garden to take with me, and found several new posts.
When I said I was thinking of orchids, I meant something a bit more esoteric than phaleonopsis, but then you're fighting for the dollars of the few hobbyists who are willing to seek out something unusual. But you can grow a lot of botanicals in one not-too-large warm to intermediate house, and you'd be shocked what a tiny pot of whatever will set you back:-) I love the miniatures -- too cute. Most of the folks in that business sell at orchid shows, and have hours when their greenhouses are open to the public, although some are appointment only. I've always figured the appointment only folks were hobbyists.
But I also love my perennial beds, and I'd be happy enough with a business based on outdoor gardening. Although... I did find myself mumbling about being too old for this as I was breaking my back getting my plants back out of the ground.
Thanks again. I'll be checking back in as time and computer access allows. Thursday is M day.
I live about 8 miles from Atlasgreenhouse.com nice folks, great houses.
I'd strongly advise thier houses. 4 out of my 7 are atlas houses.
which btw, i have two 30x96's up for grabs, my business is moving more towards irrigation work, i havn't used all my greenhouses in years.
hmmm, well between the 7 large irrigation jobs since the first of the year, the online plant sales, the 4 greenhouses I still maintain the 5 and 2 year old kids, the wifes booming soap and candle company, the fact that i've converted my truck to run on vegetable oil (and subsequently have been collecting it), and all the other things... I dunno, reckon I got busy.
I'm looking to liquidate/move my nursery at the time as it is really not terribly profitable compared to my other ventures.... plus the land around me is about to be developed, and I might be moving to a large farm to serve as 'caretaker'.
ummm, other than that, I cleared out a greenhouse and am rebuilding diesel engines and gensets in it, to be resold during the next hurricane crisis (i'm such a capitalist).
dislocated my thumb the other day running a trencher, so thats kept me from typings a bit too...
one of these days I might actually hire someone.
More development? Georgia sure is building quick. I hope it doesn't lose sight of the importance of preserving some of its vast forests. Last time I flew over Georgia to Atlanta, there were all these cul-de-sac developments with identical "McMansions" plopped on 'em. They were constructed of plywood, pre-assembled frames and vinyl siding. Bet they sell for $$$ tho'.
I'd say you're more of an entrepreneur than a "capitalist," Drew. You're an inspiration.
Mike, what was the cost of your greenhouse and what is it glazed with? Also what are your min temps in the winter.
It was around $2500 ++ Many years ago. Double poly on top --twin wall polycarbonate on front and back.
Also this year I tried using a solar pool cover across the top. Not something I would recommend for a double poly house. TOO hard to keep form blowing off!! I have not yet determined it I got a great deal of savings. Mike
space management;rolling benches;container size and subsequent spacing as the crop develops;crop selection;crop turnover time;factoring in costs...


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Tim Brookes
Joined July 2010Tim is Mac and iOS editor for MakeUseOf and can currently be found living in Melbourne, Australia. You can check out his website at timbrookes.co.uk or find him on Twitter.
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Time Posted: April 24, 2014 6:05 am
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For status updates, visit lucyburns.org.
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Proponents also argued that disqualifying those with mental illnesses violated the United States Constitution and other laws that prohibited discriminating the disabled. The Senate Judiciary Committee introduced the measure. It passed with 62.4% of the vote.
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47 posts found | |
Apprentice Member
Joined: 11/29/06 Never argue with idiots. They just bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience. |
Having bored of the carrot chasing end game of Rift and not having fun on myt alts, I decided to give AoC a try. To my surprise...I'm having a really good experience. The graphics are great. Their is blood, gore, tits and ass....it's edgy like Conan should be. Combat feels fun and the animations are smooth. The quests are pretty typical, but occasionaly they do something new. The world is big, with lots to explore. I'm sure the end game will be meh....as all end game's are, hence the name " end game"...but their seems to be plenty of opportunity for some fun Alt action. The free to play offers ALOT, but I subed up anyways....mostly for the expanded inventory space. I expect to be playing AoC until Rift comes out with some radically new content ( ie...housing, new zones and/or raised level cap) or GW2 comes out. Call me..... Pleasantly surprised ! |
You named it, AoC is still an industry leader in graphics, animations and combat. Don't be pessimistic about the end-game, actually it's quite fun. Khitai questing is fabulous (at least for the first run for each faction -- there's 12 factions all together), dungeons are hard and varied, and there's the AA system. PvP on the other hand, is probably something to avoid. REALITY CHECK |
Yea, it is a great Conan game. As far as a video game that brings Howard's Conan stories and the world of Hyboria to life, AoC does an excellent job. I don't think any game studio has handled an IP better than Funcom has done with Conan. The beauty, the gore, the combat, it is a blend that is presented in a way unique to the MMO genre. When you appreciate what the game offers, it is a blast to play! "The Pen Is Mightier Than The Demo" |
funcom and this game does not deserve the amount of hate they get... I'm playing and loving it, gonna play till GW2 or TSW is out, if I don't like them, I'm going back to this game. |
Yeah I'm downloading the client now to give it a fair shake, just a bit irritated that when I started to download fresh from the server the download filesize was ~18GB and when I installed off my disks the download filesize was...~18GB. |
Downloading AoC is a chore! I started in the evening and let it go all night. I think in the morning it was done, can't remember for sure, may have taken longer. "The Pen Is Mightier Than The Demo" |
AoC will probably expand to a folder of a size of 35GB plus future content increasing it further. Have Fun! "Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!" MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI |
I'm going to give it another try. I can't find a damn thing else to play, and I remember enjoying the starter area in the game very much when it first released. Since I am giving Funcom the benefit of the doubt when TSW comes out, I might as well go have another look at this game too. A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come. |
There are to few players to do the end game raids or PvP and no server mergers expected, so not sure why anyone would play this when they can play Skyrim and get a better single player experience. Age of Conan may be the industry leader of graphics, not so much animations but it is the industry lagger when it comes to gameplay. There are plenty of MMOs people are playing now days, this just isn't one of them. Glad you like it though. |
OP is probably stil in Tortage. Tortage is very well done with voice over. However once you leave that area, all that stop, no more voice over. At first you might find the combo combat fun, but once you level up and endup having to press 4-5 directional keys to do 1 attack, you'll find that feature becomes more like a huge chore. |
One of the few MMOs i never tried due to it being slaughtered at launch and people saying you can't explore. For me, i want an open world with a feeling it is living, and amazing atmospheric graphics help create that. So i am seriously considering trying this out, but i do fear it is a) empty and b)you can't explore. |
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Joined: 1/13/10 Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms |
Originally posted by Aguitha I've got several characters from 20-80 and a lot of the new content from Godslayer to present really has made the game a lot more engaging. If you haven't played in a while, it's worth revisiting. "And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth |
Originally posted by Aguitha There is voice acting in all the main story quests through the game and and in a few other spots. Combat is great fun an stays that way even in PVP as you need to have skill to be able to pull off the combos at the right time. I think AOC is probally my favorite themepark MMO out there at the moment, not currently playing it tho but played it for well over a year and have a few different lvl 80 characters. People overlook AOC mainly because of the launch it had, once a game gets a bad rep like that its very hard for it to bring new people in. Its true its not an open world game but there are soem really big zones to explore esp in the enw exp pack so dont think they are all tiny maps the size of a counter strike map or somthing :) last time i checked it was pretty well populated since going f2p But would tell anyone here give it a try now thats its free and you can see how good it is for yourself.. :) My 3D models |
Apprentice Member
Joined: 11/29/06 Never argue with idiots. They just bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience. |
Originally posted by Aguitha Op is a lv 38 Guardian. Tortage was actually my least favorite part. I couldn't wait to get out of there. |
Originally posted by Vegetto It is true there are not a lot of players leveling characters. Most of the population on Set are at max level and doing end game stuff. When I play I usually solo because there aren't enough people around to group up with, although I do see group requests for lower level quests in chat. There are quests that you cannot take on alone, so if you can't find a group you will have to pass on those. Exploring is another matter. This is one aspect of the game I can really get into. It is true the game is divided into zones that you enter via a loading screen. However these zones are not small, they are pretty big. Not only that, they are full of content both on the surface and in dungeons like ancient ruins. The detail of the environment and art work of the world makes it fun to explore. There are a lot of beautiful locations in AoC, and they are all rendered in DX10. If your rig can max this game out at a decent resolution the game is visually head and shoulders above any other MMO out. Presentation, art style, motion quality, lighting, are all top tier. Music and combat are excellent as well. "The Pen Is Mightier Than The Demo" |
Originally posted by LuckyDucky Not many are doing end game stuff either http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=3027480&postcount=12 like I said, Skyrim is a better single player game and beats doing the same few raids that everyone has been doing for three years now. How sad is the new PvP server with only 4 max level players or other servers where no guild is progressing or even able to raid two-year-old content. |
Originally posted by Aguitha +1 |
Ive been tryin to tell people for that last 6 months. The game still has the best graphics and is tons of fun. Even if you get bored fast you fot a few month of fun out of it. Khitai is tuff and the 6 man raids are pretty challenging. Some great improvements have been made and it it would have launched in the state its in now it would be one of the top mmo's. Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can |
On Crom (EU) I see calls for end game content all the time and every area I visited has players in it. The game has changed massively since launch, the combo system got streamlined so gone are the days of four step combos, if you play a caster that doesn't matter. I rate it highly now as my 2nd favourite online game, plenty of content to keep you engaged until level cap, a great and gritty storyline and beautifully realised. |
Originally posted by tares Well, we have all played Skyrim. Whether or not you like it more than AoC is really a subjective matter of opinion. I would say Skyrim would be a better choice over raiding the same dungeons in AoC, but for a new comer to AoC, or a long time returning player I think AoC is a better game as far as having fun playing the leveling content. I also think the art style and character animations are much better in AoC. Bethesda still haven't gotten the 3rd person view down very well. The horse and rider are better done in AoC, as well as the combat fatalities. Plus AoC is multiplayer, even though it is not as populated as we all would like, still there are other people to play with. I also prefer the Conan IP to Elder Scrolls. "The Pen Is Mightier Than The Demo" |


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This is an exciting topic to talk about as I was in a very similar position once.
First off, I want to talk about some of my personal experience: I started investing on my own at a young age, and since there isn't much real-world investing experience that you can learn in school, (at any real level), the only way to do so is through experience. Unfortunately, regardless of how good you are, or how you lucky you'll get in the beginning, you will have an expensive learning experience at some point. Here are a few ideas that you should look into:
Absorb as much information as possible. Understand what is going on in the world and relate that information to what you see in your own life, where applicable. At first, don't try to solve for concepts that are over your head. The investment world is far too big to master everything and ultimately you will be better off by really understanding what you already have some understanding of. For example, if you like gadgets, read the WSJ technology section for macro and company specific news and elate it to your own life. What are you seeing? What trends are developing? What companies are coming out with new products and based on your experience as a consumer, will those products be successful? This is a complicated way of saying "stick to what you know."
Investing is inherently social, the only problem with this is that there is historically a large information asymmetry. Historically, my best performing investments were ideas that I received from my professional network of investors, then my friends' best investments were ideas they got from me, in other words we had a game of telephone going on. The good news is those walls are starting to break down and we are starting to see more democratization of investment knowledge via Harvest Exchange and other platforms. While you probably won't see the world's best investors sharing their proprietary models, you will see what they think, and how they view the world. Take this information, absorb it, and relate it to your own life and interests. You should also discuss with your fiends and networks who have a similar interest in investing. Again, Harvest Exchange (Harvest) is a good platform to do so.
Like I wrote at the beginning, learning to invest is expensive, but with new services out there it doesn't have to be. That's not to say you won't lose money from time to time, you absolutely will, but by practicing in a simulated environment you can learn a lot more about the way the market works and reacts to news. I recommend building a watchlist on yahoo finance or creating a model portfolio on Harvest Exchange. The model portfolio is a great way of simulating real world trading based on your ideas without actually risking your own money.
Start to think about how stocks as businesses that can be valued based on everything that you learned from the above suggestions. Don't overcomplicate this, as from my experience that is where people tend to run into problems. A stock is nothing more than a percentage ownership in a business, and businesses are driven by simple metrics – sales, expenses, growth etc. Stick to what you know and keep things simple.
In conclusion: the best way to learn is to consume knowledge, socialize your viewpoints with others, and practice. I hope that this article helped you.


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Several retired teachers from Caldwell Elementary School formally introduced a fundraising campaign Tuesday during two assemblies at the school. The project will benefit Heifer International, a nonprofit, humanitarian organization that works to end hunger and poverty while caring for the land. Heifer pursues its mission by providing livestock, seeds, trees and training in animal well-being and environmentally sound agricultural practices to families in more than 50 countries, including the United States.
Benton resident Sheila Blair has been in and out of Saline County courtrooms, jail and prison since the mid-1990s with offenses including 10 DWI arrests, endangering the welfare of minor, filing a false police report and other crimes.
A Bryant man accused of shaking his 4-month-old baby to death has not been cooperative with detectives, authorities said. Devin Dewayne Hunt, 23, is facing a charge of capital murder (which is applicable when a victim is 14 or younger and the defendant is 18 or older). As of press time, he is being held without bond in the Saline County jail . He is scheduled to appear via video feed for a bond hearing today in Benton District Court .


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Robbers force luxury items from South Bluffs couple
Two Cadillac SRXs used in getaway recovered in West Memphis
Memphis police said Monday they had uncovered some leads into a home invasion and robbery in the South Bluffs neighborhood over the weekend, but had made no arrests.
Two luxury vehicles taken in the robbery were recovered in West Memphis and were being processed for clues Monday afternoon.
There were no injuries in the attack, police said.
About 8 p.m. Saturday, a resident of the 500 block of Magnolia Mound was accosted by an armed man and woman as he pulled into a parking space.
The two suspects forced him into his residence, then bound and gagged him and his wife. The robbers spent the next hour ransacking the couple's home, taking thousands of dollars in jewelry and a Rolex watch, electronics, and credit cards.
The robbers then left in the couple's two Cadillac SRX vehicles, apparently each driving separately, police said.
Within an hour after the robbery, the stolen vehicle's global positioning feature pinpointed their location in West Memphis.
The Cadillacs, one a 2004 model and the other a 2007, were recovered about 10 p.m. on Walnut Drive.
The hatch door of one of the Escalades was propped open when police got there, and some of the stolen items piled up next to the vehicle.
Memphis police said much of the stolen material has been recovered, and that they had some information about who the suspects might be.
Investigators towed the vehicles back to the Memphis crime lab, and were processing them for clues.
--Chris Conley: 529-2595
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WestminsterResearch will not be accepting deposits until 16th March 2015. This is to allow for a system upgrade and server migration.
Items where Author is Sockloskie, Robert
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ArticleAsimow, Michael and Greenfield, Steve and Jorge, Guillermo and Machura, Stefan and Osborn, Guy and Robson, Peter and Sharp, Cassandra and Sockloskie, Robert (2005) Perceptions of lawyers: a transnational study of student views on the image of law and lawyers. International Journal of the Legal Profession, 12 (3). pp. 407-436. ISSN 0969-5958 |


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Effective ad killer
Filter out pop-ups and banner ads with this effective software, but it can be a bit overzealous.
Pop-up advertisements and banners have evolved into more than just simple annoyances. In many cases these complicated advertisements slow down performance and many times clicking on these links could give your computer a virus. BFilter is here to protect your system, but does it do too good a job?
This free program downloads easily and hides in the bottom right-hand tray of your screen. In our tests, the program operated as advertised. Its filtering software ensures that pop-ups never create a window that could be dangerous to click. In addition, banners that change graphics are left as just a blank space on Web sites. By eliminating these nuisances, your computer should move from page to page more smoothly and not risk your security.
One issue we had with the BFilter is that it actually works too well. On one of the news sites we tested on, the advertisements were blocked, but so were the main images on the page: a rotating window of safe headlines and pictures. When we tried to easily allow this aspect to pass through the filter, we could not find a solution. In short, if you are willing to sacrifice some possible content, you will be hard-pressed to find a program that eliminates banners as quickly and easily as BFilter.


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Junior Member
The first few paragraphs are all opening information, the point of this thread starts on paragraph 6. --- I love League of Legends, but it's starting to feel like a love hate relationship. I used to enjoy it cause I could use the excuse "I'm newb" when I fed but now when I feed the only excuse I can use is that they're all OP -.o. Of course, I shouldn't be saying that (No matter how true it is), but I seem to be unable to find a way to deal with OP champions other then running and dying or standing next to the turret and dying. Darius, Rengar, Teemo, ESPECIALLY XIN ZHAO, Mordekaiser, Shaco, Amumu, Malphite, these are just a group of names. First of all I'd like to get out of the way that I KNOW some of these champs aren't considered OP for most people, but I have a really hard time dealing with them. Teemo ALWAYS seems to beat me unless I'm fed and I get the jump on him, Rengar's jump is basically a sure tell sign that you're about to die, Darius with a frozen mallet makes me want to throw my computer out the window, Xin Zhao can tank a turret and kill you before you can even start to cry (I have no idea how they don't nerf him), Amumu can tank a turret for over 15 seconds and STILL kill me as Renekton even with my ult blown and a fed Katarina on him. Malphite, less OP as a tank but his slow and **** is really annoying considering how much HP he has and the fact that he can spam his slow. Shaco's freaking (Trying not to cuss) jack in the box toy thing does more damage then Lux's ult. Have you ever been ganked by a Shaco? It feels worse then watching someone blow out the candles on your birthday cake or better yet being slapped with a spiked wooden post. And last but not least Mordekaiser who I've had the grace of not having to actually see in a long time but he beats the living hell out of me. I really, really want to play this game more. I love the champion designs and lore and the game play is actually fun when you don't get told you're a noob, reported for feeding even though you were COMPLETELY trying not to, and when you get ganked by a champion Riot somehow hasn't nerfed yet. Xin Zhao and Teemo especially. It feels like every new champion made since I started playing (Hecarim onward) has been able to kill me with some hell of a move, whether's it's Hecarim's push, Varus's Q, Darius's INCREDIBLY BS ULT, or Rengar's stupid jump. Heck I play Syndra and I'm ashamed because her mana cost is so low when her spells are so OP. I play as Renekton, Fizz, Cassiopeia, and Shyvana mainly, as these are my favorite looking champions, and sometimes Cho'gath and Syndra. A lot of people would argue that the champs I play are overpowered, but I don't seem to get the memo as I constantly feed against my will. --- Are there ANY tips that don't involve completely changing my build to a tanky one or trying a new champion? I don't want to play any others, especially not an OP one cause I hate it when a game's too easy and I hate it when a game's unfair. I quite frankly can't believe that Riot hasn't nerfed these champions yet. I was so frustrated when an AP Teemo's mushroom took off half my health as Renekton. Having to recall after JUST leaving the base at full health without even seeing an enemy SUCKS. On a side note, post your experiences and feelings about this here, I'd like to know how other people feel. If you think the champs I stated are OP are NOT OP, you can state your opinion but don't expect me to change my mind, because those are the champions I mainly seem to have a problem with and if you think I'm wrong then at least tell me how to deal with them if they're NOT really OP. No rude comments that comment on skill, no name calling. I've played video games my whole life and while I'll admit I'm not great at online games I'm not terrific and I know for a fact I don't die stupidly, and trust me, I've seen stupid League deaths. I usually die by going in the wrong bush or trying to protect a turret and getting turret dived or being ganked by a jungler. *ON A SIDE NOTE:* My last match involved me being Renekton soloing top (I hate junglers) against a Xin Zhao and an Amumu, two of my most hated champions in the game. Even with Rengar helping, Xin Zhao and Amumu were able to turret dive and kill us both at level 4 (Xin died by minions afterwards). This was a problem throughout the whole game, Amumu would turret dive and with his INCREDIBLY unfair amount of HP and decent attack damage kill me. Xin Zhao would 3 shot Rengar and 5 shot me even if I had my ultimate. YES, they were fed, but it was an abusive relationship since I didn't seem to have a choice in the matter. I constantly make a goal of being more careful and trying not to feed but this seems to constantly backfire. I KNOW A GAME IS FUN EVEN IF YOU LOSE but for some people losing CONSTANTLY isn't fun at ALL. *LASTLY:* Does anyone have ANY IDEA AT ALL if the champions I mentioned have any chance of getting nerfed in the future? I'd also like to add Akali and Katarina to the list (Akali I hate even when she's on our team because she gets all the kills and otherwise as an enemy can kill you even when you have more kills then her) Katarina otherwise just feels unfair regardless. I don't know exactly what makes her hard to defeat but she usually ends up winning, feel free to argue with me on this one. I just can't believe champions like Evelynn and Blitzcrank are getting nerfed while champions like Xin Zhao and Teemo get to troll around setting up nuclear mushrooms or jumping at you and throwing you into the air before the turret can even pop a lazer. Not to mention WHAT IS WITH THE PRICING? WHY IS RENEKTON 6300 IP WHEN TEEMO IS LIKE 1350!? Please help, I want to be better at this game, I play about 3 matches a night usually, I'm level 30 with about 180 wins, and I've played for 3 months.
Notorious P I P
Senior Member
There is a difference between op and fed champions.
So, you own Rengar, That's good. Rengar can be played in many different ways, solo top, jungle, support bot. I suggest you keep playing Rengar, to know him better in different roles in team. Once you know Rengar better, you will notice other champions' weakness. By the way, although you have reached lv30, you are still fairly a newb with just only 3 months of experience. Stay with your team all the time and in team fight, attack whoever your teammates are attacking. Keep these two tips in mind all the time and you should be fine. I got a question to ask: Did you setup your runes and masteries properly?
Many of those champions that you listed are pubstompers and not even OP.
Ur little sister
Sereg Anfaug
What do you mean you don't play tanks? Alot of the matchups you're describing, as well as the champions you use(Renekton, Shyvana, Cho'gath) seem to be top lane. If you're top, you should at least be building like a bruiser, which means durability. You also need to build against your opponents' strenghts... AP Teemo shroom took half your health? Either you have very low HP, or very low MR... or both. Build more. Don't want to sacrifice offensive power? Build combination items. Frozen Mallet, Hexdrinker, Wit's End, Atma's Impaler, Rod of Ages, Rylai's Crystal Sceptre, Zhonya's Hourglass, Abyssal Sceptre, Lich Bane, and Unholy Grail all provide offense and defence. If I could log in right now I'd check the builds in your match history, but I can't do that... I'm beginning to wonder if you're trying to build top champs like AD or AP carries(all offense, no defence). If so, that would explain almost all of the problems you described. Another possibility is that you simply aren't a good top laner. I'm not. I do the other four roles alot better then I play top. Perhaps you should try out other lanes - you might do better.


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The selection committee bought it. Georgetown announced on Saturday that point guard Chris Wright would be ready not only in time for the first round of the NCAA tournament -- but also in time to practice several days before the opener.
Georgetown said it. The committee believed it. Now it's up to the Hoyas to make good on their promise.
And to not be the liar that Syracuse was a year ago.
You remember a year ago? I do. I was in Salt Lake City for Syracuse's Sweet 16 game against Butler, a game injured center Arinze Onuaku was allegedly going to play despite a recent knee injury. That's what Syracuse had led the selection committee to believe before the bracket was selected. Syracuse knew it would get a better seed with Onuaku than without him, so Syracuse announced two days before Selection Sunday 2010 that Onuaku's knee wouldn't keep him out of the tournament. Or even out of practice in the days leading up to the first round.
Southwest Regional |
Dennis Dodd Ten things you need to know about Southwest No. 1 seed Kansas. Read More >> |
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Regional coverage |
A lie. All of it. Syracuse got the No. 1 seed it wanted, but Onuaku didn't practice before the first round. He didn't play the first game. Or the second game. Or in the Sweet 16. And when Syracuse lost, I ripped the Orange.
Don't repeat that mistake, Georgetown. I like John Thompson III. Wouldn't want to rip a man I like. And as luck would have it, I'll be in Chicago for the Hoyas' opener.
Three storylines:
1. The return of Kevin O'Neill: But for how long? O'Neill, the tyrant coach at Southern California, was suspended for the Pac-10 tournament after he and his wife got into an altercation -- physical, verbal, we're not sure ... but dadgum, O'Neill, your wife? -- with an Arizona booster. USC lost without O'Neill, then announced he would rejoin the team for remainder of the postseason. However, USC athletic director Pat Haden has said repeatedly that O'Neill faces additional university sanctions, leaving open the possibility that USC might still fire its tyrant coach after the tournament. As luck would have it, Part II, I wrote this unbelievably critical piece on O'Neill in 2009. And I'll be in Chicago to see him, assuming his team gets past VCU in their First Four game in Dayton. Should be fun.
2. Love it when the committee does this stuff: It's accidental or coincidental, I believe that. Sincerely. But every year the small world of college basketball produces some great storylines in the NCAA tournament, storylines that seem like they were engineered by the selection committee, if you believe in that sort of thing. Which I don't. But it's cool nonetheless that UNLV, coached by Lon Kruger, will face Illinois (once coached by Lon Kruger) in the first round. And if UNLV wins, Kruger would almost certainly see his longtime archrival Kansas -- Kruger played and coached at Kansas State -- in the second round. And if Kansas wins that one, the Jayhawks (in my bracket, anyway) would face former Kansas assistant Kevin Stallings of Vanderbilt in the Sweet 16. Meanwhile, the committee gave fourth-seeded Louisville a testy first-round game against an in-state rival with a chip on its shoulder, Morehead State. The teams are located two hours apart on Interstate 64, but they'll settle this state rivalry in Denver.
3. A little more about Chris Wright: With Wright, Georgetown was 21-6. Without him, after he suffered a broken hand on Feb. 23, the Hoyas were 0-4 -- and uncompetitive, losing four games by an average margin of 14.5 points. Obviously the committee believed Wright will play in the first round against the VCU-Southern California winner, or it wouldn't have given the Hoyas a No. 6 seed. If Wright returns to practice and is able to play at a fairly high level, then the seeding is perfect. Not too high, not too low. Just right. But only if Wright plays, because when Wright doesn't play, Georgetown is an NIT team. As I might have mentioned earlier.
Southwest Regional Picks:
Who will win: Notre Dame will win for a couple reasons. One, it won't have to see Kansas in the region finale; Vanderbilt will take care of the Jayhawks in the Sweet 16. Two, Notre Dame is sensational, worthy of a one seed itself, and I love me some Mike Brey. So I'm going with the intellectual and sentimental pick. Don't judge.
Dark-horse pick: I already said I like fifth-seeded Vandy to get to the region final, which would mean upset wins against fourth-seeded Louisville and No. 1 Kansas. But if you want a real dark horse, how about USC or VCU -- pick an alphabet -- over Georgetown in the first round. The whole Chris Wright factor. He plays, he doesn't play, whatever. Hoyas lose.
Most likely upset: Pick against the Hoyas. Not because you don't like them, but because you don't trust them. You don't trust them to have Wright, or even if you do trust them to have Wright, you don't trust their ability to reinsert him seamlessly into the lineup -- as the lead guard -- in only a day or two.
Best mascot: I hate Spiders, so sorry Richmond. Don't like using Native American imagery as mascots either, so Illinois and Florida State are out. A Peacock is embarrassing, St. Peter's, and so is your nothing, Akron Zips. I'm going with the Terriers of Boston University. I love dogs. Own three of them, in fact. No Terriers though. Little yippy things ...
Keep an eye on Ben Hansbrough and the Irish to stand out in the Southwest Regional. (US Presswire) |
Best post player: Best name, too: Festus Ezeli of Vanderbilt. This guy is a monster, 6-feet-11 and 255 pounds, and efficient. In only 23 minutes per game he averages 12.8 points, 6.2 rebounds and 2.6 blocks. Why so few minutes? Well, he tends to foul a lot.
Best coach: Richmond's Chris Mooney is scary-good, but this region has two national champions, so we have to go with Bill Self or Rick Pitino. And I'm going Pitino, because his current Louisville team isn't supposed to be here. This was a rebuilding season, and Louisville could very well have gone to the NIT with an 18-12 record without anyone thinking unkindly of Pitino. Instead, the Cardinals are 25-9 and a No. 4 seed in the big show. Well freaking done.
Best reputation: Kansas. No-brainer. Louisville has a top-15 reputation, but Kansas is one of the heavyweights -- on that short list with Kentucky, North Carolina, Indiana, Duke and UCLA. Since I don't see Kentucky, North Carolina, Indiana, Duke or UCLA in this region, this was an easy pick.
Five stars on display
Ben Hansbrough (Notre Dame): He was one of my five stars last year, too, but I was only joking then. Hansbrough was good, but he made that list because of his name. This year? Because of his game. The guy's a superstar. And, yes, his big brother plays a little bit of ball, too.
Marcus Morris (Kansas): Not the best point guard, not the best post player, but probably the best all-around talent in this region. Morris does everything at a high level, most notably averaging 17.3 ppg in only 27 minutes.
John Jenkins (Vanderbilt): Led the SEC in scoring at 19.5 ppg despite "slumping" from three-point range. He made only 40.2 percent from that distance this season, down from 48.3 percent last season as a freshman. So the guy can fill it up. And if he goes to the foul line, forget it. Count 'em (89.1 percent).
JaJuan Johnson and E'Twaun Moore (Purdue): So this region will have six stars. Got a problem with that? I can't pick Johnson or Moore over the other, so put it like this: Together they average 38.7 ppg and 13.3 rebounds. Moore hands out more than three assists per game. Johnson blocks more than two.
Austin Freeman (Georgetown): This unusual-shaped guard (6-3, 235) has the ability to pack in the points. He averages 17.9 ppg, shoots at a high level across the board -- 48.4 percent overall, 37.3 percent on threes, 86.5 percent on ones -- and he does it all with diabetes. Inspirational.
Five random notes
1. Louisville and Morehead State have done this before, actually. They met in the first round in 2009, with Louisville winning 74-54, but this one should be tougher. One, that game was in Dayton, where Cardinals fans could make the drive easily; this one is in Denver. Two, that was a 1-16 seed matchup, whereas this one is a 4-13 game. Three, Morehead State has everything to gain, Louisville everything to lose. OK, so that's the same as in 2009.
2. Florida State has been without its best player, Chris Singleton, since he broke his foot Feb. 12. The Seminoles went 3-3 without him -- you hear me, Georgetown? -- but still, would have a better shot against Texas A&M with him. Expect that to be decided later this week.
3. Southern California has one of the best, if not the best, international players in the field in 6-10 Nikola Vucevic, who averages 17.3 ppg and 10.2 rpg and who would have been a fine choice as the top post player in this region.
4. VCU forward Jamie Skeen is an example of what happens when a player finds his level. At Wake Forest, Skeen was just another guy on roster. After 1½ seasons there he transferred to VCU, where he became a star this season at 15.3 ppg and 7.5 rpg.
5. Cool stat for you. Texas A&M's Mark Turgeon is fourth in the Big 12 for victories after four years at a school. All three coaches ahead of him (Larry Brown, Bill Self, Roy Williams) coached at Kansas. Little bit easier to win at Kansas.
Final thought: We learned a lot about Jim Boeheim last season, didn't we? Let's not learn the same thing this year about John Thompson III. Chris Wright had better play in the first round, for everyone's sake.


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Top Spots For Grilled Cheese
In Philly, there are plenty of places to get a grown-up taste of your childhood favorite — without the cantankerous lunch lady.
Top Spots For Holiday Cocktails In Philadelphia
Check out these top places to escape the cold with warming and wonderful holiday drinks for the 21+ crowd.
Top Waffles In Philadelphia
We have found some of the best waffles in town that are served for breakfast, lunch, brunch, dinner and dessert. So go ahead dive into the ultimate comfort food. Your belly will thank you.
Top Spots For Fried Chicken
With National Fried Chicken Day on the horizon, here are the best spots in Philadelphia for this artery-clogging classic.
Top Restaurants With Birthday Dessert Options In Philadelphia
Whether topped with a candle, served up with song or partnered with a toast, these five Philly-area restaurants know how to dish it up.
Top Spots To Cozy Up By The Fire In Philly
The weather is officially frigid, but here's where to thaw out by the fireplace (or pit!) in Philadelphia.
Philadelphia's Top Thanksgiving-Inspired Menu Items
These Philadelphia restaurants are serving up decadent Thanksgiving-inspired specials both before and after the holiday. Gobble gobble, my friends.
Guide To Preparing For Your High School Dance In Philadelphia
There's a lot more prep work involved for the dance than just picking out a dress. For those without a fairy godmother, here's a list of the best places for getting what is needed.


text: alupu at verizon.net wrote: > Q1. Was I supposed to move the 'linux-x.y.z/include/' files to > '/usr/include/' immediately after I installed Glibc? Actually you did that in section 6.7. > Q2. Am I supposed to move the 'linux-x.y.z/include/' files to > '/usr/include/' each time after I install a new kernel? No. > Q3. Which is the "system's include directory" - the '/usr/include/'? For this case, you are referring to /usr/include/linux > Q4. "sanitised headers" are those in this (?) Linux kernel tarball > against which Glibc was compiled? > Glibc is compiled at a certain point in time. "this" kernel > varies almost daily, according to the LFS book and reality. The kernel varies, but you build glibc against one specific kernel. The programs that are built later need to be consistent with that glibc/kernel header combination. > Q5. What's the "raw kernel headers"? The headers in /mnt/lfs/sources/linux/include/. > Q6. What's the "other kernel sanitized headers"? The kernel headers are created from the raw headers with 'make headers_install'. Don't do that when upgrading the kernel and not upgrading glibc. > Q7. Is there a difference between "sanitised" and "sanitized" headers? > (this is _just a joke_ - so bear with me, I've been in a silly mood > once I saw 'udev-181' run so smoothly) Americans and British are separated by a common language. -- Bruce


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We offer discount to nonprofits, government agencies, and federal contractors
The AILA Career Center offers more than access to the best possible industry candidates.
AILA Doc No. 11051333 | Dated April 14, 2011 | File Size: 765 K
Download the DocumentA 4/14/11 letter from Senator Grassley (R-IA) to Secretary of State Clinton and DHS Secretary Napolitano expressing concern over allegations of misuse of B-1 business visitor visas and requesting "a thorough review" of the B-1 in lieu of H-1B provision in the Foreign Affairs Manual.
Cite as AILA Doc. No. 11051333.
Open the DocumentAmerican Immigration Lawyers Association
1331 G Street NW, Suite 300
Washington, DC 20005
Copyright © 1993-2015
American Immigration Lawyers Association.


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Homes for our TroopsGroundbreaking ceremony held at future home for wounded soldierFriday, August 1st, 2014 Issue 31, Volume 18.
Quevedo stepped out from the drivers seat onto an empty one-acre dirt lot off La Paz Road in Temecula where a crowd gathered to celebrate the next step in rebuilding his life after being wounded in war. The crowd of fellow veterans, many who were wounded themselves, volunteers and city officials gave a thunderous applause before the ceremony began. "This is a remarkable piece of property," said Temecula Mayor Maryann Edwards. "Temecula is a military welcoming community." Homes for Our Troops is a privately funded national non-profit committed to helping those who have selflessly given to the United States of America and returned home with serious injuries since September 11, 2001. These homes are provided mortgage-free to the veterans removing the long-term financial burden of a mortgage, enabling them to focus on their family, recovery, and rebuilding their lives. Quevedo placed an application for consideration to receive a home close to two years ago while undergoing countless surgeries in San Diego for his injuries. On November 30, 2011 while foot patrolling an alley with his partner, Army SPC Geoffrey Quevedo lost his left leg below the knee and his left arm below the elbow when he stepped on a pressure-plated improvised explosive device (IED). SPC Quevedo was 20 at the time of his injury and on his first deployment. Since his injury, SPC Quevedo has undergone various physical therapies. Quevedo currently works at Advertisement Fellow wounded warrior Justin Bond who also had a home built for him by Homes for Our Troops said, "These homes they build for us help us wake up in the morning and not feel disabled." Bond spoke on the difficulties of performing everyday tasks like taking a shower or cooking in the kitchen in a home not outfitted for a wheelchair or missing limbs. "To not have to ask for help gives us our freedom back," Bond said. Executive Director of Homes for Our Troops Bill Ivey said Quevedo is the 166 warrior to have a home built through the organization. "I want to give all my thanks to all the veterans who came out today especially the Vietnam veterans. Our nation didnt do a good job welcoming you all back," Ivey said. "We want to restore freedom and independence these veterans lost fighting for our freedom." Quevedo said the wounded warriors injuries will either make or break the person and family. He spoke briefly, how some of his fellow soldiers have suffered from PTSD and committed suicide. "Homes for Troops are giving me my life back. Its pretty cool," Quevedo said. With his fiancée by his side, he also announced they would be getting married December 7, 2014 around the same time his new 2600 square foot home is slated for completion. To learn more on how to volunteer for Homes for our Troops go to www.hfotusa.org/quevedo. 0 comments Be the first to share your opinion on this article!
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Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.flint.umich.edu!news.gmi.edu!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!inXS.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail From: email@example.com (Michael P. Stein) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT Date: 9 Jul 1996 12:46:57 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Lines: 40 Message-ID: <email@example.com> References: <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net In article <email@example.com>, Matt Giwerwrote: >On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 15:24:25 -0300, Keith Morrison wrote: > >>Michael P. Stein wrote: > >>> > There is physical evidence of the Dresden firebombing. >>> >>> There may be bomb craters. There may be evidence of a fire. But >>> establishing the causal link between (a) and (b)? Or the intentionality >>> of the fire? What physical evidence do you have for that? None, of >>> course. > >>On the other hand, would he care to demonstrate why Dresden was hit >>by bombs instead of a multiple meteorite strike? > > Did god provide the bomb sight films? Who put the caption on the films? How do you know what town is down there? Is there some sort of big sign like there is in Hollywood, saying "Dresden?" And of course we would also have to ask if the films show the firestorm allegedly caused by that bombing, or whether even if they do it indicates a true causal connection rather than a coincidence involving Mrs. O'Schmidt's cow. Then of course we must ask if there is a documented chain of custody on those films. And what _were_ Steven Spielberg and the KGB doing on the day those films were made, hmn? So when are you going to get around to providing physical evidence of this alleged allied firebombing of Dresden? I see none. -- Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth. POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer. Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.flint.umich.edu!news.gmi.edu!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail From: firstname.lastname@example.com (Michael P. Stein) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT Date: 9 Jul 1996 13:12:08 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Lines: 121 Message-ID: <email@example.com> References: <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net In article <email@example.com>, Matt Giwer wrote: >On 7 Jul 1996 06:36:15 -0400, email@example.com (Michael P. >Stein) wrote: > >>In article <email@example.com>, >>Matt Giwer wrote: >>>firstname.lastname@example.com (Daniel Keren) wrote: >>> >>>>email@example.com writes: >>> >>>># Anyone want to explain this one? >>> >>>>[Erroneous testimony about Belsec camp] >>> >>>>Anyone want to explain the testimonies about Dresden's bombing? >>>>"Puddles of melted human flesh"? People who turned into an >>>>"undulating layer of fine gray ashes" although the fire >>>>didn't even touch them? People "glowing red and orange" >>>>(also, although the fire didn't even touch them)? >>> >>> Save there is PHYSICAL evidence of a burned Dresden but no PHYSICAL >>>evidence of any form of mass extermination at Belsen. > >> Gosh, there is physical evidence of a burned Chicago. Guess it was >>firebombed. > > I have been over this territory before. You have not been paying >attention. There are records of the mission planning, the mission >briefings, Writing down testimony does not make it a document, remember? That was your response about the letter to Rauff. Perhaps you would like to quote from them where they say that the city would be firebombed, not just bombed? Got a reference? I thought not. But even then, we would have to ask if this could not have been just a morbid sense of humor? Got a chain of custody for those mission records? It is only one bombing mission out of many. It is an anomaly just as you say the Vergasungskeller memo was an anomaly. Are we not required to look for alternative explanations of anomalies like this? Have you done so? number reels of bomb site films associated with the mission, >before and after reconnaisance pictures with associated reel numbers >related to the mission. There are inventory records of the bombs >assigned to the mission. > > All of it points to the smoking gun, physical evidence of aerial >bombardment. > > Now where were you when I recited the above last time? Bad news feed? Whee, there was aerial bombardment of many cities. If mission records of bombings are sufficient evidence of firebombing, then every city in Europe had a Dresden-style barbecue, obviously. Mrs. O'Schmidt's cow is looking guiltier all the time. > >>[snip] > >>> There is physical evidence of the Dresden firebombing. > >> There may be bomb craters. There may be evidence of a fire. But >>establishing the causal link between (a) and (b)? Or the intentionality >>of the fire? What physical evidence do you have for that? None, of >>course. > > All of the above. Simply asserting it does not make it so. >>>There is no physical evidence of mass extermination by any means at >>>Belsen. >>> >>>You know the difference. It is simply inconvenient for you to admit to >>>the difference. > >> Please tell us what physical evidence you have that the Dresden fire >>was not really caused by Mrs. O'Schmidt's cow, and that the bombing was >>just coincidence. None, of course. > >As you have now read for the third time a minimal recitation of the type >of physical evidence that exists, exists such that not one person need >ever testify to it or admit complicity, you have the answer for the >third time. Still no evidence of a causal link between the bombs and fire other than post hoc ergo propter hoc, which is a fallacy. > Or is this to be an exercise it hoping I get tired of repeating myself >or happen to miss making one repetition so you can again claim that I >have refused to discuss a subject? You can repeat claims of physical evidence all you like, but it will not make it true. I have done nothing but hold you to the same strict standards of evidence you have applied elsewhere. You have yet to meet them. Sorry about that. Or do you now consider it acceptable for me to recite as _physical evidence_ a list of the documents such as the Vergasungskeller letter, the references to a "Sonderkeller," the inventory sheet for showerheads in a room showing no plans for shower plumbing, the morgue whose convenient corpse chute was replaced by inconvenient trips down the stairs, the letter from Topf talking about cyanide detectors for the Kremas, traces of cyanide in the Kremas, the memo with plans to heat a supposed morgue with waste heat from the crematory ovens (heat a morgue?! but then, the Germans like Limburger also), the letter to Rauff about gassing vans _confirmed_ by Rauff in his deposition in Chile, ... -- Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth. POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer. Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!news.gmi.edu!news.sojourn.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!winternet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news2.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail From: email@example.com (Michael P. Stein) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT Supersedes: <firstname.lastname@example.com> Date: 9 Jul 1996 13:18:41 -0400 Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Lines: 26 Message-ID: <email@example.com> References: <firstname.lastname@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: access5.digex.net In article <firstname.lastname@example.com>, Matt Giwer wrote: >On Mon, 8 Jul 1996 00:06:36 GMT, email@example.com (Daniel Keren) >wrote: >>As long as you don't provide it, you are also "proving" (by >>an extension of your "revisionist arguments") that Dresden was >>not bombed. > >I have pointed to the available physical evidence that does not need one >word of testimony to support the event. Apparently you can not read it. I have pointed out, among other things, that you have not presented a chain of custody for this alleged evidence - none of which you have given a reference for, of course - nor told us how we know the films are properly captioned, etc. The Vergasungskeller memo needs to testimony to support the event. Nor do the gassing van letters, one of which was confirmed by Rauff in his Chilean deposition. Yet you do not accept them. Why the inconsistency? Now go back and meet the same standards of evidence you demand for that which you do not believe. -- Mike Stein The above represents the Absolute Truth. POB 10420 Therefore it cannot possibly be the official Arlington, VA 22210 position of my employer.
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3 Reasons Google Glass Failed
Was the futuristic Google Glass too far ahead of its time? Or will it come back in some incarnation -- cheaper, less creepy and fashionable?
Was the futuristic Google Glass too far ahead of its time? Or will it come back in some incarnation -- cheaper, less creepy and fashionable?
Stop! Before you sign up for that gym membership, check out these free ways to build muscle and burn fat.
Drones and 3-D printers get their own pavilions, and there's increasing attention to wearables and the Internet of Things. Don't know these terms? Read on.
From smart watches to PCs (yes, PCs), these are some of the hot things in tech to watch in the year ahead.
Disney's MagicBands are nice, but not nice enough. Adding the functionality of Nike's FuelBand would make the happiest place on Earth even happier.
Apple's new smartphone is a hit, but that doesn't give its forthcoming smart watch any better odds of beating the wearable computing curse.
For the first time in years, Apple's iPhones aren't the star of the show. Apple at last unveiled its smartwatch on Tuesday.
The iPhone 6, Windows 9 and updated gadgets from Motorola Mobility and Samsung are expected to make big news in September.
Where is Apple's future beyond the iPhone? It's not the iPad or iPod. It could be the long-rumored iWatch. But it can also be the venerable Mac.
The iWatch, Apple's long-awaited wearable computer, is doing to tech what LeBron James just did to basketball. Allow us to explain...
Shares of Apple have hit another 52-week high, with buzz for larger iPhones and the long-rumored iWatch, but a new fight may be brewing with Microsoft.
Android Auto, wearable gadgets and smart home devices are some of the innovations Google is showing off at its two-day developer conference.
The world's largest mobile technology firms are developing ways to let diabetics check blood sugar easily -- an advancement that could pay off big.
Rumors suggest that Apple will introduce an iWatch this fall, but it may be too late to matter in a once-promising niche.
Layoffs at Nike point to a possible end for the Nike FuelBand fitness bracelet. It blew a golden opportunity to corner the market. It failed to evolve.
A well-placed analyst sees Apple releasing a smartwatch by the end of this summer, but it may be too late for the iWatch to disrupt the market.
Some common experiences are likely to get makeovers in 2014 -- how you dine out, enjoy a day at a theme park, and even interact with your smartphone.
Pebble watches and Google Glass are pretty neat, but the next clever development in wearable tech may be a brassiere that brings new meaning to the term "support."
The rise of wearable computing is an inevitable --eventually -- but 2013 wasn't the breakthrough year that some had predicted. Still, we think you don't have long to wait.
The latest word out of the Apple rumor mill is that we'll finally see an iTV in 2014. (No, we wont!) But what we really need from Apple are fewer hints and more game-changers.
From a widely dissed $7.2 billion buyout to a record month for automakers, here's a rundown of the week's best and worst moves in the business world.
Two more hedge funds place a bet on J.C. Penney, following last month's departure of Bill Ackman, who sold his 18 percent stake in the ailing retailer.
What's the next big thing? A number of companies are placing bets on wearable technology. Reports today say Samsung is developing a wearable, digital smartwatch.


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Cramer Quick Take: We'll Likely Go Over the Fiscal Cliff
Check out Jim Cramer's latest trading recommendations on "Action Alerts Plus".
NEW YORK ( TheStreet) -- Ready the parachutes, we're likely going over the fiscal cliff, Jim Cramer told Lindsey Bell at TheStreet.com Monday. He said our politicians don't look like they're going to reach a deal so investors should prepare for a 2% to 3% decline in the markets as a result.
Cramer said there's still a lot to like in the stock market. He said interest rates remain low and valuations are inexpensive. Many sectors, such as the drug makers, tech stocks, industrials and even the financials, all remain cheap despite their businesses picking up steam.
With all of that positive momentum, Cramer said the fiscal cliff will not mean the end of the world, but it will be a hiccup for which investors need to prepare.
To sign up for Jim Cramer's free Booyah! newsletter, with all of his latest articles and videos, please click here. -- Written by Scott Rutt in Washington. To email Scott about this article, click here: Scott Rutt Follow Scott on Twitter @ScottRutt or get updates on Facebook, ScottRuttDCCheck Out Our Best Services for Investors
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