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If you could do one thing to improve integration and automate processes with customers and business partners, it would be to implement XML, which has become the standard for exchanging information between disparate systems because it is easily transformed into any format. With very little effort, the same file can be sent to several different customers with their own specific needs. XML eases the development effort for the transmitting company and gives recipients a safety net for altering the way they use the data without having to alter how they receive it.
Being able to merge, query, and transform transmitted data with relational data is becoming as essential to businesses as data warehouses themselves. The good news is that the four leading relational databases, namely Oracle Database, IBM DB2, Sybase ASE (Adaptive Server Enterprise), and Microsoft SQL Server, not only can store XML data, but they hide much of the complexity of working with XML. Depending on which of these relational databases you use, however, the XML features you will have to work with may be extremely rich or limited in important ways.
What does a fashionable XML database provide? Four basic functions: the ability to consume, store, search, and generate XML. The extent to which the database supports these functions and the methods it uses to accomplish them are what make for a successful implementation of XML in a database.
I examined these four areas in Oracle Database 10g, IBM DB2 Universal Database V8.1, Sybase ASE 12.5.1, and Microsoft SQL Server 2000. I tested how they imported and read XML files, their options for saving the data, their indexing and query capabilities, and their options for creating XML and graded them based on the ease, flexibility, and speed with which they handled the most common XML operations.
Of course, these products have many other capabilities beyond handling XML. My grades should not be interpreted as complete evaluations.
Documents and Tables
Relational databases and XML documents are both powerful ways to represent relationships among data, but they're powerful in different ways. For example, querying on a patient ID number in a relational database may allow you to quickly find the dates a certain patient visited the hospital, the conditions he was diagnosed with, and the treatments he was given. But it likely won't help you determine which treatments were provided for which conditions or what times the treatments took place, nor will it give you other useful information that XML versions of these records could provide.
But whether or not you can combine the benefits of relational and XML data depends on how you store the XML. There are three methods for physically storing XML data in a relational database: shredded, unstructured, and structured. Shredded and unstructured are useful methods but limited. The structured method allows you to leverage the power of both relational data and XML hierarchies.
Shredding puts XML data into relational columns but strips it of its XMLness, meaning the hierarchical relationships among the data in the original XML document are lost. Shredding is useful when you're not concerned about keeping the data in XML format. For example, let's say you have a Web site that allows customers to place orders, and the order needs to go to a number of different database systems. Producing an XML file and having the different systems pick it up -- that is, shred it -- from a network share may be the most efficient and error-free way to get the data where you want it to go.
The unstructured method uses a data type called a CLOB (Character Large Object) to store an entire XML document as a single unit. Databases have been doing this for years with different types of documents, so this is nothing new. The unstructured method provides limited search capabilities, but it is still quite useful. You can't base queries on it, but the structure of the original data is preserved. A good use for unstructured XML storage would be in keeping original documents to comply with government regulations. For example, if a financial institution were to receive original loan documents in XML, this would allow them to have a relational record of each loan application, and also to store the original application with that record.
The structured method allows you to store XML data inside the database and preserve the hierarchy of the data. Structured storage, also known as "native XML" storage, is what every vendor is trying to achieve. The most obvious benefit of preserving the hierarchical relationships of XML data is being able to receive an XML document, combine it or manipulate it with relational data, and produce XML as a result. It isn't possible to produce such result sets with a relational query language alone.
Oracle Sets the Curve
Oracle Database 10g breaks new ground in support for XML technology, offering very rich features for importing, storing, querying, and generating XML data. Providing native, structured XML storage as well as support for unstructured document storage and shredding, Oracle Database 10g allows you to pull XML data from files and merge it with relational data in views. But before jumping into an upgrade for the enhanced XML capabilities, Oracle shops should note that most of the functionality is available in Database 9i.
Oracle Database can read and write to WebDAV (Web Distributed Authoring and Versioning) repositories, giving users a nice Web folder view of the XML data they can request. The WebDAV support allows administrators to set up access to thousands upon thousands of XML files without requiring much disk space. This is because these WebDAV files, though they appear to be regular XML files, are just shortcuts, queries that point back to the database. The data that comprise these files doesn't materialize until it's requested by opening the file or copying it to a different location. Along with WebDAV, Oracle also supports transferring XML documents across FTP and HTTP.
Perhaps the most important improvement in Database 10g is XML schema evolution. Schema evolution allows you to implement changes to XML schema by mapping the existing data to the new schema. Instead of having to export and re-import all of your XML data, you just create the XSLT (XSL Transformation) style sheet to transform your old documents to the new schema, and the database takes care of the rest. Schema evolution greatly eases the management of XML data, because one thing administrators can count on is constantly changing requirements.
Oracle Database 10g offers some superb options for storing XML data. The XMLType data type obscures much of the complexity of storing and querying XML data, allowing admins to manipulate the data using familiar SQL tools and concepts. For instance, you can create an XMLType table or an XMLType column in a relational table. Creating an XMLType table is how you implement the structured storage method and preserve your XML hierarchy. Creating an XMLType column in a relational table is how you implement the unstructured storage method, which is useful for storing entire XML documents for attachment to relational records.
And what can be done with a table can be done with a view. You can also use these tables and views in stored procedures and process data based on them, so there are some very advanced possibilities here.
How easy is managing XML data in Oracle? Assuming you already understand all things XML, including SQL/XML, XQuery, and DTD (Document Type Definition), XML processes in Oracle Database are very easy to manage. In fact, as in schema evolution, the database handles many data management processes on its own, with a minimum of admin intervention.
In my speed tests, which involved importing thousands of files, creating thousands of files, and importing very large documents, Database 10g proved very fast, beating all comers at imports and finishing a close second to IBM in the file-creation test.
Big Blue, B Student
IBM is on the ball, too. DB2 implements XML as a collection of options called the XML Extender. Another key piece, the Information Integrator, is licensed separately from DB2. Although the XML Extender may sound like a separate program that sits outside the database and interacts with the relational engine, it is in fact just a collective name for the stored procedures and functions that provide the XML functionality inside DB2. These stored procedures and functions sit inside the relational engine like any other objects in the database and are accessible to any user who needs them. It's only slightly annoying that there's a separate install to get the Information Integrator functionality.
The Information Integrator sits outside the relational engine and extends the functionality of XML in DB2 by adding the XML Wrapper, which allows you to treat XML documents as relational sources. The XML Wrapper is a very powerful tool that could be useful in receiving transmitted XML files that you want to be able to query and possibly report on, but which you don't want to import into the database.
Like Oracle Database, DB2 allows you to store structured XML, unstructured documents, or shredded data. And like Oracle's XMLType, DB2's XML datatype allows you to obscure the details of XML data storage from both users and admins alike. Views can be created to merge relational data with XML data in a single result set. This same result set can be merged with XML documents on the file system or with other XML or relational data inside the database.
DB2 uses SQL/XML as the main language for creating XML documents from relational data; you use SQL/XML functions to create XML tags, attributes, and the like. SQL/XML also allows you to perform concatenations and aggregations while creating the document. DB2's SQL/XML support isn't complete, but it covers the major functions. If you are using DB2 today, you'll probably be able to do anything you want when creating XML documents.
XQuery, on the other hand, is completely unsupported by DB2. No doubt IBM is waiting for the W3C to solidify the specification before it implements the unfinished standard. Nevertheless, the absence of XQuery imposes significant limitations on DB2's XML search capabilities. I would much prefer to see a partial implementation than for it to be completely left out.
XQuery, which is a language used for crawling through structured data paths, offers significant query functionality beyond what SQL can do. Because XQuery is an identity-based query language, whereas SQL is value-based, you can use XQuery to find out whether a certain element exists; SQL can tell you whether an element that's known to exist holds a certain value. Unlike SQL, XQuery also has knowledge of attributes inside element tags, and it has stronger data types than SQL, providing you greater control over the type of data being written or queried.
XQuery notwithstanding, IBM's commitment to XML is quite apparent when you look at the improvements it has made in DB2 V8.1. Not only does V8.1 support XSLT for on-the-fly translation of XML data, there are more than 1,000 changes to SQL syntax for handling XML alone.
How easy is DB2's XML to manage? Very. The views manage the dynamic data underneath them and provide a layer of abstraction that clients need in order to query the database effectively. However, updating your XML schema will be a hassle. Because DB2 doesn't support schema evolution, you will have to physically map your old data to any new schema produced by changing requirements.
After a slow start, due to confusion over what I could and couldn't do without Information Integrator, my tests of DB2 went smoothly. DB2's development interface is very intuitive, stronger than Oracle's and even Sybase's. And despite the absence of XQuery, I found DB2 to have very powerful XML capabilities. It did everything I asked it to do and did it very quickly.
Sybase Pulls a B, Too
I very much like the way Sybase has implemented XML in Sybase ASE. Native XML support is fully integrated with the relational database, and no external programs are necessary to get the functionality.
Sybase ASE has a native XML database that allows storage of shredded, structured, and unstructured XML data. Admins can import the XML data into the database or query XML files directly from the file system. Unfortunately, ASE doesn't support XQuery, so it suffers from the same limitations as DB2 when it comes to searching XML.
Like Oracle and DB2, ASE allows very rich indexing on XML data, whether shredded or structured. A self-defining indexing mechanism in ASE handles evolving XML formats and structures without requiring any user input. Element values are automatically indexed to speed up predicate searches (the XML equivalent of "select phone from customers where lastname = smith"), and different types of indexes (XML indexes or relational indexes) are chosen by the database depending on the type of query predicate. And queries can be predicated using relational elements, XML elements, or both.
ASE does most of the XML data management for you. Building views, stored procedures, and functions based on XML data is not only easy to code, it's easy to manage as well. However, the lack of schema evolution will hinder growing projects. Lack of schema evolution isn't the only shortcoming in ASE. When creating XML files, ASE cannot perform on-the-fly XSLT translation. The end-user is expected to run the newly created XML files through an XSLT processor afterwards, which hinders any efforts to create XML files in a timely fashion. Any organization that needs to generate XML files on a regular basis should find another solution. (I find Microsoft .Net to be very good at this task.)
If it weren't for ASE's lack of XSLT and XQuery support, its XML implementation would be in the same class as IBM or even Oracle. Development was extremely easy, and the tools were very intuitive. Sybase has put together an excellent product that should be exploited by any company currently using ASE.
In the speed tests, ASE held its own except when it came to creating XML files, where performance was affected by my having to script XSLT processing. Had ASE included a method for using XSLT, it would have performed well in comparison with the others.
Microsoft Takes a Lesson
Microsoft SQL Server 2000 falls glaringly short of Oracle, IBM, and Sybase when handling XML. As an XML-enabled database, SQL Server only allows you to store XML documents as unstructured objects in the database or to shred the XML data into relational tables.
You might think that the absence of structured XML support would leave SQL Server dead in the water, but that's not entirely so. SQL Server has plenty of functionality that makes it possible to parse and write XML documents. Foremost, you can easily generate XML result sets in SQL Server using the For XML clause in a T-SQL query. This in itself is useful, but is made more so by the ability to scrub the data through an XSLT style sheet along the way.
SQL Server has other rich options for creating XML documents, allowing you to slice and dice views and present XML data in almost any form users require. You can also use SQL Server as a sort of bidirectional XML repository by mapping XML documents directly to relational tables through the use of Updategrams, which sit between the XML document and the database and allow you to specify what elements look like before and after a change. This allows you to send updates, inserts, and deletes to SQL Server in the form of an XML document. You receive the results in XML as well.
When reading XML documents, SQL Server gets even more sophisticated. For example, SQL Server can pass XML documents into stored procedures as parameters for shredding into the database. And SQL Server's OpenXML function allows you to generate rowsets from XML documents and insert them into the relational database. In fact, using OpenXML, you have access to some nicely featured methods for manipulating XML data. You can retrieve attributes and elements using flags, and you can define rowset schemas by using column patterns or table names.
However, because SQL Server treats the entire XML document as a single piece of data, the database is not aware that XML elements exist until you start parsing through them in the stored procedure. This isn't the end of the world. You can still build queries and views that leverage the hierarchical relationships of the data in XML files; it just takes a lot of extra work (read: coding) to do so. The next version of SQL Server, due in 2005, will support structured XML storage (see "Will Yukon strike XML gold?").
In my tests, I found that SQL Server speedily imported XML files, but it was the slowest of the group at creating XML files. It was also slowest at reading large XML files but not by a significant margin.
Relating to XML
All four of these relational databases provide useful XML capabilities. Even SQL Server, which lacks support for structured XML storage, allows you to store, manipulate, and create XML in useful ways.
While Microsoft has a lot of catching up to do, IBM DB2 and Sybase ASE suffer from less significant limitations. Their lack of support for XQuery means less granular XML search capabilities than the others provide. Sybase ASE's inability to perform XSLT impromptu transformations means extra time and administrator effort will be necessary to generate XML documents or evolve schema.
Although IBM, Sybase, and even Microsoft offer significant XML functionality, they trail Oracle by a wide margin. Oracle not only does the best job of hiding the complexity of managing XML data, it also offers the richest set of query capabilities and tops it off with extras such as support for schema evolution and WebDAV repositories. If you're using DB2, Sybase ASE, or SQL Server 2000, you'll be able to make good use of XML data.
Jennifer Nelson, database administrator at Info Integration, contributed to this article.


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subset: commoncrawl


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Yesterday, EA Games and Mythic Entertainment officially flipped the switch on Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, a massively multiplayer online fantasy role-playing game based on Games Workshop's superbly violent tabletop RPG. Though only a day old, the game already has a nearly decade-long history.
First announced as a collaboration between Games Workshop and Climax Studios in 2000, the online game's beginnings were marked by a struggle to survive. Its original incarnation was dashed after Climax lost control of the project twice, first after Games Workshop pulled the plug on the project and then again when Mythic Entertainment acquired the official license in 2005 after Climax attempted to trudge on without Games Workshop.
Although the game was being handled by a proven developer, having Mythic Entertainment at the helm by no means guaranteed that Warhammer Online would come to fruition. Though Mythic had successfully launched the fantasy-themed Dark Age of Camelot in 2001, the Virginia-based MMOG studio was just that year suffering under the "indefinite postponement" of its sci-fi MMOG Imperator. As Mythic CEO Mark Jacobs put it back in 2005, "while [Imperator] was fun, it was not fun!"
With Mythic behind the wheel, Warhammer Online was given a fresh reboot. And nearly a year later, a modicum of stability arrived for the game when megapublisher Electronic Arts acquired Mythic. Ostensibly, EA's buy was an effort to field a competitor against Blizzard's genre-dominating warhorse World of Warcraft.
To challenge such a behemoth, EA and Mythic needed to come on strong, and Warhammer's next phase was defined by delay after delay. First slated for a late-2007 shipping date after the EA buyout, the game was bumped that April back to the first quarter of 2008. With Q1 2008 quickly closing, Mythic pushed the game back yet one more quarter in November, saying that it would arrive sometime in mid-2008. That date likewise would not do, and Mythic said with conviction in March that Warhammer would arrive this fall, a date later refined to September 18. In a seemingly last-ditch effort to hit this deadline, Mythic revealed in July that it would be trimming a number of cities and classes from the launch product.
Development adversity thus overcome, Warhammer Online's biggest challenge lies before it. The game launches just months after Anarchy Online developer Funcom debuted Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, a game that posted the best MMOG launch numbers since World of Warcraft four years ago. And then, of course, there's WOW's second expansion, Wrath of the Lich King, which many expect to leave beta within the next two months.
In the first of a two-part interview, GameSpot sat down with Mythic's Mark Jacobs to get his take on how Warhammer Online stacks up against the competition. He addressed how important timing is in the launch of an MMOG, what would bring EA to ecstasy, and how to keep a game from being a joke in the face of mounting delays.
GameSpot: This is a huge year for MMOGs. You've got Age of Conan, which came out in May and by Funcom's account was the biggest MMOG launch since WOW, and then you've got Warhammer in September and Wrath of the Lich King later this year. What are your thoughts on being sandwiched between Age of Conan and Wrath of the Lich King? Do you see any advantage to being the middle child?
Mark Jacobs: Oh, sure. When we released Dark Age of Camelot back in 2001, we had a nice sweet spot when we came out in October. There wasn't a lot of other competition at that time, and it gave us a little bit of an edge. So if you look at this year, you had Conan coming out much earlier. And I'm not going to say anything bad about the guys, but it's obvious that the game did not continue to sell as well as it did in the beginning, right? You have release after release about how well it was selling. It was top of the charts. Obviously, that's no longer the case.
So in front of us, of course, we have the 800-ton gorilla that is World of Warcraft. It looks like we're coming out at least a month, maybe more, hopefully, before they're coming out, and it allows us to come out at a time where there are no new MMOGs, where we're not really competing in terms of mindshare with another MMOG for new sales, or with a lot of other big RPGs. So it's actually a really good time to release. Now, would I like even more separation between us and Lich King? Well, of course. You know, again, 800-ton gorilla. But look, it is what it is, and we are just doing our best. I'm not the least bit worried about it.
Now, if they announce September, yeah, then obviously we're going to have a different conversation.
GS: Right. Probably too late to worry about that, though.
MJ: Yeah.
GS: How much do you think timing plays in the success of MMOGs? You had DAOC, which came out about two years after EverQuest, and most critics saw it as a superior to EverQuest, but it wasn't until WOW came out that the whole MMO landscape changed. Now you've got Warhammer four years after WOW. Do you think there's going to be any correlation there?
MJ: I think that's a great question. Timing plays a role from two perspectives. First, when MMOGs come out, it's interesting--it really doesn't matter in terms of the time of year as much as other games. If you look at the history of MMOG releases, you've had some great successes in the fall, and you've had some great successes in the spring, and you had some OK successes in the summer. So that's the first interesting thing about timing.
The second is that when a game--and this is really true for 99 percent of the MMOGs--when an MMOG hits its third year, from then on usually in terms of peak concurrent users, it begins its decline. Now, some MMOGs can cover that by continually high sales. Or, in the case of [CCP's] EVE, which is probably the best success story for when you want to look at something that did not do well in the beginning and now three years or four years later, whatever it is in their case, they're doing better than they did at first, which is just amazing. But WOW, EverQuest, Camelot, by three years out they were really all--they really are in WOW's case--losing a lot of users. The difference is Blizzard has been able to keep the sales strong even now for WOW to make up for that loss.
So if you're looking at the perfect time to come out for a new MMOG, it would certainly be when the competition is three or four years out. And it really doesn't matter who the developer is because people are people, and they get bored with any game. You can't do almost any activity every single day, or even three, four times a week, for three or four years without getting a little bit tired of it, or very tired of it.
So, in our case, coming out with WOW hitting its second expansion pack is a lovely thing. It really is. And when you look at the competition from the other games, every other major game is a lot older than that. Certainly, Camelot is much older than that if you want to look at competing realm-versus-realm. Or, you would look at Final Fantasy in terms of player-versus-environment and strong numbers. Same with EverQuest 2.
So I look at it being a really good time to release Warhammer.
GS: You mentioned that Blizzard has done a very good job of maintaining interest in its MMOG. Have there been any lessons that you guys have taken away from them that you plan on implementing with Warhammer?
MJ: Well, they've done a really good job from two perspectives. The first perspective is expanding the market, and that's really where they've done the best job. It's really easy to say, "Wow, look at Blizzard's numbers..." Let's forget Asia because Asia numbers are always screwy. They always are, because in Asia you have so many different payment models, while in North America and Europe, it's only realistically monthly subscriptions. When you look at North America and Europe numbers, when a developer says, "Look, we have 6 million paying monthly subscribers," you know what that means. But when you look at the Asian numbers and they say, "We have 11 million or 10 million worldwide subscribers," well, most of the Asian countries are not on monthly payment plans. They're on all different payment plans.
So, if you look at North America and Europe, what Blizzard has done is take the market--which was large, or at least we thought it was large--and continue to expand it. And that's the number-one secret to success. Not only have they kept their players for a fairly long time, just as, frankly, we did with Camelot, but they keep bringing new people into the genre because their sales numbers are still strong year after year. And the only way they could continue to have those sales numbers is if they were bringing more people in who had never played these MMOGs before.
So the other thing that they've done well is they continue giving people more and more stuff to do. And it doesn't matter what it is because it could be new armor sets, new items to get, new dungeons to explore. They have done that very well. We did it very well with Camelot, but they've done it even better.
So I think those are the two key things. One, hopefully Warhammer will expand the market, and I think we will. Second, keep giving the players new stuff. And we've planned on giving them a ton of new things to do over the lifetime of the game, but especially over the first year.
GS: You also mentioned the state of Age of Conan, and how it appears that they are having problems hanging on to subscribers. A lot of that has been attributed to their bumpy launch. And this seems like a question that comes up every single time an MMOG launches, and no one has really cracked the nut yet, and maybe you have a different perspective with this being your second major one. Why is it that so many MMOGs launch riddled with bugs?
MJ: So it's really funny, OK. And this is just unbelievably bizarre if you think about it. Go back to 2001, and in 2001, at E3 that year, there were three MMOGs that everyone was talking about. Well, actually two. Star Wars Galaxies and Anarchy Online. We were an afterthought. If you go back and look at who won what, you'll see that we didn't win much. Anarchy and Star Wars, they took most of the awards. And if you look at a comparison between what people were saying about Anarchy and Camelot and Age of Conan and Warhammer, it's fascinating because it's almost identical.
Back in 2001, people were looking at Anarchy and going, "Wow, what a beautiful game. Great graphics. Oh my god, this is the sci-fi game we've been waiting for, and it looks beautiful." Camelot, they were going, "Yeah, you know, this realm-versus-realm thing kind of looks interesting, but boy, the graphics aren't quite as good as either Anarchy or Star Wars," blah-blah-blah.
And what I had said in interviews was that we focused on stability. We had a very small budget, and we were out of money by October. But we said we had to spend what we had on a stable game because that for us was what was going to make us successful. We couldn't compete with Sony back in the day in terms of what they could spend, right? Obviously not. So what we had to do was focus on two things. One is RVR, because that was a differentiating factor between us and every other MMO on the market at the time, and two was stability.
And so now it's seven years later, and if you go back and look at what people were saying about Age of Conan for months and months, "Oh my god, it's so beautiful. It's so much prettier than Warhammer. Look at the graphics. Look at the models," et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I was saying the same thing that I said then. "Guys, focus on what you can do in our game. RVR and the stability of the product, even in beta. Look at how we're doing already, because that's what's important to us." In the end, what is going to make or break a game is not the pretty pictures. It just isn't. It's gameplay and stability, because if you don't have stability, you can't enjoy gameplay. And if there's not great gameplay, it doesn't matter what it looks like.
So for us--and certainly our beta has shown it--we are more stable in beta than most MMOGs are at release. Not all MMOGs, but most MMOGs. I'll give you a great statistic from beta so far. In this last phase, we've had one crash of the game. Just one. And that one was caused only by our CS guys when somebody was trying to do something they shouldn't have and sent a command to the servers and the servers went, "I don't know what you want me to do, but I give up." Boom. But that's it. That's been our one crash of the servers in this latest phase. And this is open beta.
So are we perfect? Oh god, no. No MMOG is ever finished until it's finished, and when it's finished my use of that word means they're out of business. Because I've been doing these games forever. I've never seen an MMO launch without bugs, and I never will, frankly. Especially at this scale. And I've never seen one that is finished while it's still doing well. Because especially when you're doing a game like Warhammer where RVR is the key, the balance becomes so crucial that you're always tweaking and fixing and sometimes breaking the things that players care about.
But the key thing, and I don't know how many times I've said this, and I just get laughed at a lot, is that the thing that matters most in today's market is the stability of the game. Because when we were back in the early days of MMOGs, people were so thrilled with the product they didn't care if it crashed as much. They just didn't, right? Because it wasn't like there was any other competition. Or, it was so new and novel and, "Oh my god, this is great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it crashes a little, but nobody's ever done this before." "Yeah, but it crashed." "Yeah, but who cares? We're having so much fun."
It's now a decade--more than a decade--since the first true MMOG went online. And so people are more jaded. They're more experienced. They have higher expectations. And the focus I think, going forward, for more teams should be on the absolute technical prowess, not what they can do in terms of pushing pixels to make something look better. Because players won't put up with it as much as they would have, I think, 5 years ago or 10 years ago, because they know what a good game should be like.
As we have now gone through multiple generations of MMOGs, players have gotten used to them. They expect certain things that maybe they wouldn't have expected 10 years ago or 5 years ago. And so if you don't launch well and if you don't continue--even if you have some issues, if you don't continue to fix those issues--if you don't continue to put the effort into the game to do what the players want you to do, they'll go, "You know what? I can go somewhere else. I'll go back to WOW, or I'll go back to Camelot, or I'll play some other game, and then in six months when you get things sorted out, maybe I'll come back."
And it is just such an overlooked aspect for some teams, and it's a shame. I mean, I'll give you a great little anecdote. Part of my role at EA since they bought Mythic has been to look at other developers for them.
So I sat in a meeting with a developer, and I won't mention their name because it's really embarrassing, and I asked them, I said, "You're supposed to launch this month. When are you guys going to do open beta and a real good stress test?" The CEO said, "We're not." I looked at him and I said, "What do you mean you're not?" "Oh, we don't need to." "What do you mean you don't need to do a stress test?" "Oh, the way we've designed it, it's going to work at launch." And I was like, "You've got to be kidding me, right? You're not going to put this through a stress test and open beta?" He says, "No. This is how we've engineered it, and we know it's going to work." "OK. Hey, thanks. Check please."
And that was it truly for that developer, as far as I was concerned. The man just totally did not get it. I said, "Look, you can't work with somebody who has this level of arrogance," because nobody is that good. Nobody is that smart. And we've done two of these, or three if you want to count Imperator [placed on indefinite hold as of 2005], and we still make mistakes, and we know that we're going to do something wrong at times. If you go into this space with that much hubris, I guarantee you something bad will happen, because nobody, and I mean nobody, is that good. And the history of MMOGs proves it.
Sorry for the very long answer.
GS: No, that's OK. So this is shifting gears a bit, but EA has said in the past that their marker for success is about 2 million copies sold of a game.
MJ: Right.
GS: What's your marker for success?
MJ: I'm not going to tell you that [laughs]. But what I can say is that where I want to be at the end of the day with Warhammer is I want to be the number-two MMOG of all time. That is my marker. Each game that's been successful has sort of always raised that cap. Certainly EverQuest was the all-time leader, and then Final Fantasy [XI] had some really, really good numbers and beat them, I believe, worldwide. And we were number-one in Europe, for example, until WOW came out. And so, I would like to be well above number two--well above Final Fantasy. That would make me very happy.
Now, you're absolutely right about the 2 million units being a marker for success for a stand-alone game. The nice thing about an MMOG is that every quarter that we keep a user, essentially we're selling a new box because of the monthly subscription price. And so if we sold 2 million copies of Warhammer and had a good retention rate, equivalent to whatever the [rate of] other leaders in this space is, I think EA would be absolutely ecstatic. Unbelievably ecstatic. Because for an MMOG, that is the key to success. It's not the number of boxes you sell. It's how many players do you have at peak, and how long do you stay at that number? Because if you just do some back-of-the-envelope calculations, let's say you have half a million subs, and let's say just to make the math easy it's $12 a sub, and so that's $6 million--sorry--yeah, $6 million a month, $72 million a year. Obviously, not too shabby.
And then if you look at that in comparison to box sales, so if you sold 2 million units--obviously I can't say what EA keeps--but even at retail, that's only somewhere between if it's a PC title maybe $100 million. So, if we have 500,000, 600,000, or more, EA will be very happy, and that would make us number two.
Now, would I like more than that? Of course. We've worked very hard on this game. We've worked over three years, and certainly we would love to have more than that number. But our bar for success when EA bought us--that's what it was. We told them, "We want to be number two." You can't plan on being number one. And it's not that I don't know how to beat WOW or get close to those numbers, but it would take the same kind of commitment that Blizzard had. Blizzard didn't do that game in three years. They did it in, like, six years. And a lot higher spend than I had.
What I told EA was like, "Look, let's do a great game. Let's do it with the RVR focus. Let's set a lower bar and go, 'This is good.'" And so they did, and we're all very happy with where we are right now. And we're going to have some news hopefully going out next week about what our preorders are and what our projected sales are, and I think it's going to be a very good number. We're well received by our fans. The number is excellent. Quite, quite excellent.
GS: Right. You picked this game up in 2005. Warhammer Online itself was first announced in 2000, being developed by Climax Studios. Does the game as it is now resemble what that initial thought of what Warhammer Online would be? How has it evolved since your initial impression?
MJ: Sure. So let's start with the Climax thing. First of all, no connection with the Climax game. Totally different. When we got the license, certainly Games Workshop, which owned all the IPs, said, "Is there anything you want from there?" And we went, "Uh, no. This is our game, this is our engine. We're going to design it with you our way. We want this to be a different game. We saw what you guys were doing. That's not the game we want to make." And so we sat down and did the design.
Now, in terms of how close it is to the original design, in some areas, really close. Some areas, not so close. Obviously, we cut some of the cities out. I really wanted them in there, but when we looked at it, we went, "You know what? It just doesn't make sense. We need to cut them." So we did. In terms of classes, I'm quite happy with 20, so losing a few doesn't really bother me. We hope to put them back in, but it wasn't as big of a cut from my perspective as the cities were.
In other ways, it's exceeded my expectations. When I first came up with the Tomb of Knowledge, it was a great idea. It's been made into a better idea even over the last year. They've gone in some wonderful directions with it. Public quests are absolutely living up to my design for them.
So, I think that, like any MMOG, things change over time, but in our case, for the most part really it was only to make them better. And I think if you look at where we are now as a game compared to where we were when we delayed it the last time... One of the things I told the users was, "Look, we need more time to polish. It's not that we're fixing systems. You know, we're not retooling the whole game. We want some additional time to polish and iterate." There were other things we had to do of course at the same time, but I said, "Look, we need this time. We want to be sure we can compete, frankly, with WOW and potentially with Conan."
And EA said yes, and if you look at the difference between the game then and the game now, there is no comparison from a polished perspective and an iteration perspective. I mean, we've really done an incredible amount to take this to the next level. And our users are saying, "My god, you guys were right. You really did use that time to polish the heck out of the game." And is it perfect? No. Again, no MMOG is ever perfect. But it's a h*** of a lot more polished, and we've got so many little things in the game. Not just big things. Just little things. Convenience things for the players. Sometimes you don't notice them. That we wouldn't have been able to do months and months ago.
GS: Getting back to the player community, what I've noticed about a lot of your interactions with players on the message boards are that they seem to have the undertone of "You folks just need to calm down a little bit." How would you describe your relationship with the community, and do you think developer interaction is necessary for a game's success? Or what role do you think it serves?
MJ: So what's my relationship? Honest, straightforward--at times I am there absolutely to soothe them, at times I'm to excite them, at other times I need to set them straight, other times they need to set me straight. I've been doing these games for 20 years now. I did one of the first MUDs. I did stuff on the GEnie Network. All this stuff from the old days. So, I've been dealing with the community as a community manager before there were ever community managers. Before there was ever a term called "community manger."
I always thought it was important to engage the players for a number of reasons. One, obviously, because you want them to be excited about your game, because if they're excited about your game, they're going to play your game. Two, because they're going to come up with a bunch of good ideas that you may not have thought of. Any developer who thinks only they can come up with good ideas, epic fail right there. Because you can't. Again, nobody's that smart. Another reason is because they can tell us when we mess up. They can help keep us, if not humble, honest.
And so that's why I go out to the community, and that's why I do stuff on our own forums--even my own blog--to get this kind of feedback. To talk to the players.
And if you look at over the last few years when there's been a crisis in the player's mind, whether it was a delay or the cutting of the classes, I was the guy there. I didn't send my community manager team out there. I didn't send my spin team out there. I went out there myself to talk to people openly and honestly. So I think that helped keep--and certainly the feedback I get from people absolutely justifies it--I think that helped keep the lid on things and kept things in perspective.
When you see a company delay a game time and time again and there is no developer interaction, the game becomes a joke among the community. You know, it becomes a joke among the press. But when you have a developer who goes out and goes, "Guys, here's why we're doing this. OK? We're sorry, but here's why," it doesn't become a joke. As a player, you're going to be unhappy no matter what, but you see that the developer is serious and you understand the reasoning more behind it.
So I think it's really important for developers. Now, the trouble is a lot of developers don't have thick skins and don't have the patience. This is not something you can just jump into. You have to spend the time, and you have to get the scars, frankly, from doing dumb things occasionally or just from the heat and slings and arrows that will be thrown your way. And if you can't handle that, don't talk to the community. Stay away. Because you'll just piss them off more.
And one of the things you'll see in all my posts. I try desperately hard not to be condescending to them, and do the, "Oh, you just don't understand how hard it is to make a game with good graphics," or, "You just don't know how hard it is to do client-server stuff." I try to talk to them as people and explain things to them. And then hear again what they have to say.
Back in 2001 or back in 1999, we were pretty much given zero chance of success when we first announced Camelot. Who the hell is Mythic? Oh yeah, they've done some other online games but blah-blah-blah. And let me tell you, I had to endure so many jokes about, "Oh yeah, you just want to be able to sing something from the show, right? Ha ha." You know. I had people quoting lyrics from Camelot and making jokes about Lancelot and "if ever I should leave you." All this stuff. I mean, I just heard that to no end, OK?
And I went to the community and just talked to them during the entire development process and kept talking to them and went on different fan sites and did all the things I'm doing now. We had no money, frankly, to do anything else. And so that started building a buzz. Now, that's what's now called, of course, viral marketing. If you're going to go back and look at Camelot and try to figure out why it succeeded, well, it certainly wasn't because we spent a lot on advertising. Our total advertising and marketing budget was $660,000. We spent about $250,000 of that on E3. So that's not a lot of money to push a game, right? And that's everything. I mean, that's paying for the marketing people and everything. So it's not like we had a big budget.
So one of the things that I think helped make it successful was the work we did in the community to get people talking, to get people sharing information with other friends of theirs, with other guilds they were in. You know, do all that sort of thing to help build a foundation for success. And Venti, who we were partners with at the time, did their own analysis and told me, "Mark, I think it's a good game, but don't expect to sell a lot." "OK. What do you think?" "Boy, I think we'll do 40,000 units the first quarter, and then you'll slowly build." We tripled that in the first month.
So, it had to be for something that their marketing and sales people didn't understand. It certainly wasn't anything conventional, and so I'm left to believe that a lot of the reason we succeeded was because we had engaged the community, not just with me but with other people as well, to get them interested in our game.
And so you move forward to 2005, and we signed Warhammer, and we heard some of the same stuff. "Warhammer? That's a 25-year-old IP." Or, "Warhammer? Oh my god, isn't that the game that is based on WOW?" You wouldn't believe how many times I heard that, including from journalists, which was just really amusing. Or, then I heard, "Well, OK, yeah, fine. So Warhammer was there first, but how can you compete with WOW?" Or, so many of those things.
So I did the same thing I did with Camelot. We went to message boards. We have Paul [Barnett] and Jeff [Hickman] and Josh [Drescher] going out and doing podcasts and doing all this community stuff. Look at where we are now. It's not because Warhammer has a history of great computer games based on it, Warhammer Fantasy. None of the fantasy games were really successful. 40K has been just a wonderfully successful product for THQ, but it's a slightly different market.
So we did the exact same thing. We went out to the fans. We went out to the community and talked and talked and talked to them some more. And here we are today. We're going to have a tremendous announcement, a couple of announcements, over the next week regarding how well we're selling already.
And so all of that is an indication that the policy--it's more than a policy in our case; it's our lifeblood of talking to the community, of being a part of it and giving them part of it from the beginning, including giving them our beta test incredibly early--works, if you have the right product and the right team. And I'm fortunate that I have guys like Paul and Jeff and Josh, who not only love Warhammer but who can go and talk with the same kind of passion that I have for it and a love for the IP and who are also very honest guys. And I have no doubt, truly zero, that that all helped play a large role to get us to where we are today.
Check back later this week to hear Jacob's thoughts on what needs to be done to capture mass-market adoption in the MMOG genre, why twitch-based combat wouldn't work in a game like Warhammer Online, and what developers can do to avoid the fate of Age of Empires developers Ensemble Studios.


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Painting Outdoor Wood Table
Hello, I have built a fold able wood table to take to tailgates and camping. This table will be strictly used outdoors. I'm wanting to paint the surface with my college colors (FSU) and include a mascot in the center. I definatley want to protect it with some type of polyurethane or lacquer. Is there a better type of paint to use, or does certain types of paint work better with polyurethane?
As you can probably tell, I'm new at this. I'm having an artistic friend paint the table, but I wanted to make sure we used a type of paint that would last and that we could protect it as long as possible. thanks! |
you can apply Spar Varnish over the paint to help protect it. Or just use exterior paints.
I have clear coated over paint on some cornhole boxes and they are 3 years old and still in good shape (i do not leave them out). let your paint cure before you apply the Spar Varnish. you may have to wait 30 days to be safe. apply 2 to 3 coats of varnish sanding between coats. |
Just use exterior paint, then there's no need to varnish.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:30 PM. |


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You sometimes see bumper stickers that say "What would Jesus do?" It's a good question, at least for Christians. You don't see bumper stickers that say "What would Washington do?" But that, Logan Beirne says, is a question Americans should be asking. In Blood of Tyrants: George Washington & the Forging of the Presidency (Encounter Books, 2013), Beirne shows that the American presidency was born as much out of the personality of one man–George Washington–as it was out of the political philosophies of the founding fathers. After all, the framers had never seen a presidency before–almost all previous states were led by monarchs, and that was not an option for the new American Republic. So they looked at Washington, what he had done during the Revolutionary War, and modeled the presidency after him. Not surprisingly since Washington was a military man, they got a presidency that was, well, rather martial. Listen in and find out why.
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Will We Hold It Wednesday – Nas 2,809 or Bust! 0 comments
Wheeeeee, this is fun!
As I mentioned in yesterday's post, the move up in the markets was an excellent time to establish some disaster hedges because – well, that's what you do when you are heading into a potential economic disaster, isn't it?
I've laid out my concerns since last week so now it's just time to sit back and enjoy the ride. In addition to the bearish bets I outlined in yesterday's morning post, we added a short play on copper futures (/HG) at $4.45 (reiterated in this morning's Alert to Members) and THREE (3) Disaster Hedges using SQQQ, TZA and EDZ – each of which return well over 1,000% should the markets falter and, if those 2.5% lines fail on the Dow and the S&P today – faltering is going to be pretty likely.
Of course we don't go 100% bearish and we picked up a very nice 42% winner day-trading oil up (NYSEARCA:USO), of all things. After we cashed out our winning short trades on the Futures at the $98 line, we got a nice ride back to $100.50 where we shorted again and now we're back to $98.50 this morning so – wheeeeeee! Gotta love that oil scam, right? Another long we took was a protective bullish spread on IWM – just in case our "leaders" actually "fix" the debt ceiling but that's not looking very likely this morning with Boehner's ridiculous plan being so poorly contrived that he is now unable to get his own party behind it.
That is, of course, the "plan" that President Obama said he will veto and that the Senate has already said no way to but, like a child throwing a temper tantrum, Boehner has decided that the Republican Controlled House of Representatives will now spend 72 hours working on this non-starter of a plan rather than sit down and attempt to have constructive negotiations.
As we expected, the continued uncertainty out of Washington is having the perverse effect of panicking people INTO the Dollar, which is the main reason we got so bearish on stocks, copper and oil. We also get oil inventories this morning and Durable Goods at 8:30 along with the Chicago Fed Index so it's going to be a very exciting morning in a day when about 100 companies report earnings as well. …
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Week of December 8 for FREMONT FAMILY YMCA members who participated in fall II session or were wait listed
Week of December 15 for FREMONT FAMILY YMCA members who did not participate in fall II session
Week of December 22 for non-members
Week of February 23 for FREMONT FAMILY YMCA members who participated in winter session or were wait listed
Week of March 2 for FREMONT FAMILY YMCA members who did not participate in winter session
Week of March 9 for non-members
Week of April 27 for FREMONT FAMILY YMCA members who participated in spring session or were wait listed
Week of May 4 for FREMONT FAMILY YMCA members who did not participate in spring session
Week of May 11 for non-members
Winter - January 19-February 28, 2015
Spring - March 23-May 2, 2015
Summer I - June 8-26, 2015
SHRIMP (6 to 18 months) Parent accompanied (at least one parent per child please) A) Saturday - 9-9:30 a.m.
PERCH (18 months to 3 years old) Parent accompanied (at least one parent per child please) A) Monday - 10:30-11 a.m. B) Monday - 5:35-6:05 p.m. C) Thursday - 6:15-6:50 p.m. D) Saturday - 9:40-10:10 a.m. The objective of the Shrimp and Perch class is to get both the parent and child comfortable in the water. The child explores a new environment while the parent learns how to teach the child to be safer in and around the water. Classes are designed so the child has fun while the parent urges him or her to learn aquatic skills. The child will be exposed to games that use basic movements in the water, such as kicking, arm strokes and breath control.
RAY (must be at least age 4) This class is designed for new swimmers, teaching basic stroke and kicking skills, pool safety and comfort with holding the face in water while blowing bubbles and swimming, front and back kicks with a noodle along with floats. A) Monday - 11-11:35 a.m. B) Monday - 5:35-6:10 p.m. C) Tuesday - 4:30-5:05 p.m. D) Tuesday - 5:40-6:15 p.m. E) Thursday - 4:30-5:05 p.m. F) Thursday - 5:05-5:40 p.m. G) Saturday - 11:40 a.m.-12:15 p.m.
STARFISH (must be age 5 first day of class) Children work on front/back crawl and front/back float 20 seconds, front and back glides, front and back kick with kick board. A) Tuesday - 11-11:35 a.m. B) Tuesday - 5:05-5:40 p.m. C) Tuesday - 6:15-6:50 p.m. D) Thursday - 5:40-6:15 p.m. E) Saturday - 11-11:35 a.m.
POLLIWOG (must be age 6 first day of class) Continue working on front and back floats and glides with longer time and distances, front and back kick with kick board 25 yards, front and back crawl, start with dives and also treading water. A) Tuesday - 5:40-6:15 p.m. B) Tuesday - 6:15-6:50 p.m. C) Thursday - 5:05-5:40 p.m. D) Thursday - 6:15-6:50 p.m. E) Saturday - 9-9:35 a.m. F) Saturday - 11-11:35 a.m.
GUPPY (mastered Polliwog skills) Front and back float one minute, retrieve object off five foot floor, summersault front and back, front and back crawl 25 yards with rotary breathing, jump off diving board. A) Tuesday - 4:30-5:05 p.m. B) Tuesday - 5:05-5:40 p.m. C) Thursday - 4:30-5:05 p.m. D) Thursday - 5:40-6:15 p.m. E) Thursday - 6:50-7:25 p.m. F) Saturday - 9-9:35 a.m.
MINNOW (mastered Guppy skills) Children refine front/back crawl, sidestroke, breaststroke and elementary back-stroke 25 yards; front/back float two minutes and tread water one minute; dive from side and dive from diving board. A) Tuesday - 5:05-5:40 p.m. B) Thursday - 4:30-5:05 p.m. C) Saturday - 9:40-10:15 a.m.
FISH (mastered Minnow skills) Children learn to swim front/back crawl, sidestroke, breast-stroke, elementary backstroke 50 yards; butterfly 25 yards; float three minutes; tread three minutes; compact and standing dives. A) Tuesday - 4:30-5:05 p.m. B) Thursday - 5:05-5:40 p.m. C) Saturday - 10:20-10:55 a.m.
SHARK (Flying Fish has merged with Shark; mastered Fish skills to advance to Shark) Children learn to swim front/back crawl, sidestroke, breaststroke, elementary backstroke with open turns, butterfly, float and tread water. This class is a lead into swim team and lifeguarding with potential to assist teaching swim lessons. A) Tuesday - 5:15-5:50 p.m.
COST FFY members - FREE Non-members - $28/35 min. class; $24/30 min. class Private lessons - $10/30 min. 1 student; 5 lessons $45/1 student; 5 lessons $75/2 students (You must be a FREMONT FAMILY member.)
LIFEGUARD CLASS - FEBRUARY For ages 15 and older January 16-18, 2015
February 27, 28, March 1, 2015 For class to be held there must be a minimum of six students and a maximum of 10 students Registration deadline - Monday, January 12, 2015/Monday, February 23, 2015 Cost - $150 for first time certification and $75 for recertification and must be paid at the time of registration Claire Wray, program director, 402-721-6952, firstname.lastname@example.com
Begins Wednesday, September 3 through March 2015
Registration deadline - TBA
Ages - Kindergarten through high school (you must be a FREMONT FAMILY YMCA member to participate)
Cost - $200 for the 1st child; $175 for second child plus membership fees
Questions - Claire Wray, aquatics director, 402-721-6952
Just want to get back into the swim of things? Masters Swim is for the serious adult (age 18 and older) swimmer looking to improve time or to compete year round.
Wednesday mornings 5:45-6:45 a.m. or evenings 7:30-8:30 p.m.
Practice begins March 4
Cost - FFY members $30/month; non-members $60/month Questions - Claire Wray, aquatics director, 402-721-6952, firstname.lastname@example.com
(hours effective August 11, 2014-May 24, 2015)
Monday, Wednesday, Friday - 4-5:30 p.m. Saturday - 12:30-3:30 p.m. Sunday - 1:30-3:30 p.m. (Sunday open swim begins Sep. 7)
EVENING Monday-Friday - 7:30-8:30 p.m.
FAMILY SWIM Friday - 6:30-7:30 p.m. *times are subject to change without notice
The lap pool is available for adults only (18 and older) most operating hours. The lap pool will be used for swim team practices throughout the summer. When those hours have been established, they will be posted at the YMCA.
The instructional pool is available for water and walking and other activities. However, during swim lessons and water aerobic classes, the pool is open to class participants only. No one under the age of 18 is allowed in the instructional pool with out a FREMONT FAMILY YMCA lifeguard on duty.
Located in the pool area, this co-ed facility is the best way to relax after a hard workout. Adults only (18 and older).
* Noodles, kickboards, pull buoys and water weights are for water fitness classes and swimming lessons only. They are not to be used during open swim.
* In order for a youth to swim in the deep end or use the diving board outside of swimming lessons, he/she must be able to swim the width of the pool unassisted.
* No flips or back dives off of the diving board or pool deck.
* Youth 7 years old and younger must have an adult (18 and older) in the pool with them.
Pool parties can be scheduled during regular open swim times. Private pool parties can also be scheduled, but you must allow at least two weeks notice so lifeguards can be scheduled. Please make reservations at the Fremont Family YMCA font desk. For prices and availability, please contact Claire Partridge at the YMCA, 402-721-6952.
For more information on the above programs, please call 402-721-6952 and ask for Program Director, Claire Partridge.


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Wanganui Chronicle
Wanganui Chronicle
Most Popular
Kiwi troops in Iraq
50–100 votes
Do you agree with the decision to send Kiwi troops to Iraq to act as trainers to the Iraqi army in its fight as fundamentalist group ISIS?
Moor sisters win Viva Prix de Fashion
The Black Caps aren't the only ones in the good books tonight. Police have praised cricket fans for their good behaviour…


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The search for the Essential Arts of Peace is a dangerous and deadly affair. Betrayal upon betrayal surrounds Qwan; Daki, sent by Yuushi to stop Qwan, has agreed to lead him to the sutra. Yuushi, who also wants the sutra, is furious and drives Daki's mother to ambush Qwan! Can Qwan get to the Essential Arts of Peace in time?
Story and art by Aki Shimizu.
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Britt Hayes
Britt Hayes is a writer, movie lover, and sensible sweater enthusiast living in Austin, Texas. She watches too much TV and never eats her vegetables. Her mom is worried about her.
Looks like 'Cinderella' didn't have to wait long for her fairy godmother to arrive. Helena Bonham Carter has been chosen for the role in the upcoming adaptation from Kenneth Branagh.
You had them on your bedroom walls and you swooned every time you popped their movies in the VCR or tuned in to their TV shows each week. But where did your favorite '90s teen heartthrobs go when you grew up? Read on to see your faves -- then and now.
When you think of Easter eggs in the context of movies and television, you think of seeing stuff like the pizza delivery truck in all the Pixar movies, or J.J. Abrams using the faux slushie brand Slusho in each of his movies
David Beckham is never not sexy, so today let us honor this insanely beautiful soccer player and the many ways in which he looks hot in his underwear. That's right -- Beckham is so hot that we're featuring him for a second time.
As superhero Hawkeye in 'The Avengers,' Jeremy Renner uses his bow and arrow to kick some bad guy butt, but in real life this dreamy dude is shooting arrows into our hearts, Cupid-style.
Brazil really knows how to make 'em, if model Rafael Lazzini is any indication. That's one gene pool we wouldn't mind getting mixed up with.
Who do you get to play the God of Thunder? Probably a dude who looks like Chris Hemsworth -- the kind of guy some ancient civilization would have built a statue to honor.
It appears that Marvel Comics has realized that women read comic books too, so they've decided to take a hint from '50 Shades of Grey' and get all romantic with two new novels featuring the love lives of She-Hulk and 'X-Men's Rogue. Seriously? Seriously.
We don't condone drinking if you suffer from the following: heart conditions, alcoholism, pregnancy, underage, over-age (looking at you, Mom), or if you're on prescription meds or are not coping with your recent break-up very well.
For the rest of you: New Year's Eve is upon us, so let's get messayyyy, GIF-style!
Michael Bay took a little excursion from the 'Transformers' movies to make his latest film, 'Pain and Gain,' and we've got a brand new official poster for the musclehead crime flick starring Mark Wahlberg and Dwayne Johnson.
Sure, animals in Halloween costumes are adorable, but pugs always seem to have the most awesome Halloween costumes around. Those scrunched-up little faces of theirs give so much more character to the costume... Oh, who are we kidding? We can't explain it. Pugs in Halloween costumes are just ridiculously cute. We've got a list of the best Halloween pugs in movie costumes from 'Star Wars' to Marvel superheroes and so very much more.
We've got three new releases hitting theaters this weekend, and though the choices seem slim we promise you'll have a great time. Science fiction, animation and inspirational drama are all on tap for the September 28 weekend.


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Solving all kinds of difficulties with friends, and sharing business ideal's, how to make money online, legit investment, virtapay dollar, world news. politics, elections, jobs, free money, work at ho
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text:
Mrs. Lloyd C. Harmon, Laeon Jones, and Claudie Duggan interview
Click here to view the item (new window) | |
Type: | Sound recordings | MovingImage |
Creator: | Finn, Tom |
Title: | Mrs. Lloyd C. Harmon, Laeon Jones, and Claudie Duggan interview |
Date: | 1967 |
Description: | In the interview Mrs. Harmon and Claudie Duggan describe a variety of African American folk remedies. Some of the remedies include bleeding, marking babies, conjuring off warts, and curing night sweats. The participants also discuss superstitions, ballads, and stories. Local identification number: MSS 1003.02.07 Biographical information about Mrs. Lloyd C. Harmon, Laeon Jones, and Claudie Duggan has not been determined. Local identification number: ahc1003002007.mp3 Local identification number: Reel to reel Local identification number: ftp://collections/MSS/MSS%201000-1099/MSS%201003.02.07.pdf |
Subjects: | Folklore--Georgia | Oral tradition | African Americans | Storytelling--Georgia | Traditional medicine | Music | Superstition | Oral histories | Harmon, Lloyd C., Mrs. | Jones, Laeon | Duggan, Claudie | Atlanta (Ga.) | Fulton County (Ga.) | Decatur (Ga.) | Stone Mountain (Ga.) | DeKalb County (Ga.) |
Contributors: | Atlanta History Center |
Online Publisher: | Kenan Research Center, Atlanta History Center, 130 West Paces Ferry Road, Atlanta GA 30305, 2010 |
Original Material: | Audio recording | John Burrison Georgia folklore oral history and music recordings, Atlanta History Center |
Rights and Usage: | This material is protected by copyright law. (Title 17, U.S Code) Permission ofr use must be cleared through The Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center. Licensing agreement may be required. |
Persistent Link to Item: | http://collections.atlantahistorycenter.com/u?/BUR,33 |
Related Institutions: | Atlanta History Center |
Collection Information: | John Burrison Georgia Folklore Oral History and Music recordings |


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Read MoreDamas Jewellery Careers
About Damas Jewellery
Damas Jewellery LLC, a U.A.E based company, has grown and expanded over the years, from a company with a humble beginning into an internationally based fashion jewellery network. The key to its success has been a visionary creativity, an inspirational leadership, a dedicated workforce and a lot of sincere hard work.
Today, Damas has a trade network that spans far and wide around the world. Outlets can be found in the U.S.A, Lebanon, Qatar, Jordan, Maldives, Bahrain, Kuwait, India, the Sultanate of Oman, and throughout all the GCC countries. Its contemporary image and superb infrastructure, have allowed it to house a magnificent array of internationally acclaimed jewellery brands, such as Carrera Y Carrera, Laurentia, Baraka, Mikimoto, Fope, Chimento, Faberge, Pomellato, Roberto Coin, Scavia, and many more. Damas also houses some of the most distinguished brands in the watch arena, such as Chanel, Chaumet, Bell & Ross, Barthelay, Omega, Waltham, Montega, Bedat & Co., Vacheron Constantin, Marina B, and many more.
We offer unrivalled progression with a broad range of exciting careers. To support the rapidly increasing demands in local and overseas markets we are looking for enthusiastic, energetic, flexible team players who will enjoy the excitement and challenges of working for a very successful and rapidly expanding organization. As a customer focused company, we also look for people with a passion for delivering excellent customer service to our customers.


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May 24, 2007, 10:40 AM | |
New Product
Electrifly E-performance Series Extra 330s 3d Ep Arf
For immediate release:
**ELECTRIFLY E-PERFORMANCE SERIES EXTRA 330S 3D EP ARF An extra smooth performer for E-pilots! The boom in electric airplanes is still going strong as evidenced by the E-Performance Series replica of the Extra 330S! When equipped with ElectriFly brushless motor components, this stunning aerobat will offer all the performance adventurous pilots could ask for and more! Instead of weeks, the Extra 330S requires only a few hours of easy assembly. Clean lines and a glowing MonoKote® trim scheme add up to great looks. Because this ARF is designed for the best in brushless power and installation ease, parts are included for mounting a RimFire out-runner motor. External mounting of the wing and tail servos makes them easy to install and adjust while boosting control surface response and precision. Easy access and simple steps combine for quick battery pack changes helping keep the Extra 330S in the air longer! Built strong from laser-cut balsa and designed to deliver all-out electric maneuverability almost anywhere! The wheel pants, landing gear, and fiberglass cowl enhance the planes looks without adding work and all come painted to match the pre-applied MonoKote® covering. A generous supply of hardware is included designed with the needs of EPerformance planes in mind. Specifications: Wingspan: 41 in (1035 mm) Wing Area: 337 in² (21.8 dm²) Weight: 27-31 oz (765- 880 g) Wing Loading: 11.5-13.2 oz/ft² (35-40 g/dm²) Length: 40 in (1015 mm) Requires: 4+ channel radio w/4 micro servos, 1250kV out-runner brushless motor ,35A brushless ESC, 11.1V 1250-2100mAh LiPo battery, prop GPMA1543 Extra 330S 3D EP ARF Retail:$139.99 Street:$109.99 IN STOCK: Late June For more information please visit: www.greatplanes.com |
Thread Tools | |
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Sold | Great Planes E Performance Series EP YAK 54 3D ARF 41" - Reduced | Spid | Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) | 6 | May 03, 2007 08:09 PM |
New Product | **NEW** Electrifly Reactor 3D EP ARF | Mandy | Product Announcements | 0 | Aug 07, 2006 12:37 PM |
For Sale | E-Flite Mini Funtana 3D EP ARF | jmbneaf | Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) | 0 | May 28, 2006 09:53 PM |
Sold | Great Planes Extra 300S FlatOuts 3D EP ARF 35.5" | SEMPERFI8387 | Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) | 2 | Feb 11, 2006 08:33 AM |


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Jeff Francoeur Rumors
Heyman On Brewers, Liriano, Castro
Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com lists 45 potential trade candidates in anticipation of this summer's deals. Here are some highlights, starting with a team that could be a buyer, rather than a seller:
- One GM questions Zack Greinke's ability to thrive in major markets. Keep in mind that Brewers owner Mark Attanasio has a buyer's mindset as the deadline approaches. Greinke and others on Milwaukee's roster may not be available.
- Fellow Brewers starter Shaun Marcum is no better than a fourth starter in the American League, according to a GM. It's worth noting that Marcum posted a 3.85 ERA with 7.3 K/9 and 2.8 BB/9 in five seasons in the American League East when he pitched for the Blue Jays.
- An American League executive said Padres starter Edinson Volquez "has good value," Heyman reports.
- One person said Twins left-hander Francisco Liriano is worth a short-term look.
- Royals GM Dayton Moore may like Jeff Francoeur more than any other team does.
- Jeremy Guthrie will have to string together some quality outings to restore his trade value, one executive said.
- Heyman hears from a Cubs official who says the team hasn't mentioned Starlin Castro's name in trade talks (Twitter link). The Cubs appear to be willing to listen on most of their players, including Castro.
Full Story | Comments | Categories: Chicago Cubs | Colorado Rockies | Edinson Volquez | Francisco Liriano | Jeff Francoeur | Jeremy Guthrie | Kansas City Royals | Milwaukee Brewers | Minnesota Twins | San Diego Padres | Shaun Marcum | Starlin Castro | Zack Greinke
A Look At Notable Moves Of August 2010
August transactions don't boast the same excitement as their July counterparts, but they can still have ramifications for contenders and non-contenders alike. Teams readying for the postseason will often fine-tune their rosters by adding a specialty piece — a LOOGY or power bat off the bench, for example — and ones looking ahead to next year will look to shed payroll.
There's still a few days left before September arrives, and prominent players such as the Rays' B.J. Upton was claimed as recently as Friday. But in the meanwhile, here's a look back at some of the bigger names who were on the move — whether by trade or waiver claim — in August 2010, and the subsequent fallout (for the complete list, check out MLBTR's Transaction Tracker):
- Mike Sweeney, acquired by the Phillies from the Mariners on Aug. 4: Seattle sent the right-handed-hitting veteran and what remained of his $650K salary to Philly, where he hit .231/.310/.385 down the regular season's stretch and went 1-for-1 in his lone postseason at-bat. The M's later received cash from the Phils for Sweeney, who signed a one-day contract with the Royals in March and retired.
- Jim Edmonds, acquired by the Reds from the Brewers on Aug. 9: Cincinnati added Edmonds for its postseason push, sending Chris Dickerson back to Milwaukee in exchange. Edmonds didn't do much, hitting .207/.281/.586 in the regular season before being left off the Reds' postseason roster due to an Achilles injury. He retired this spring after signing a minor league deal with the Cards, while Dickerson was traded in March to the Yankees for Sergio Mitre.
- Mike Fontenot, acquired by the Giants from the Cubs on Aug. 11: The Lads scooped up Fontenot for infield depth during their run to the World Series in exchange for minor league outfielder Evan Crawford. Fontenot remains in San Francisco is under team control for through 2013, though he could be a non-tender candidate this offseason, as he was last.
- Derrek Lee, acquired by the Braves from the Cubs on Aug. 18: Lee joined Atlanta after his long tenure in Chicago, the Cubs acquiring three prospects in return. Lee was one of the better acquisitions of this period, posting a fine .287/.384/.465 line for the Braves to help them reach the postseason, though he went just 2-for-16 in their NLDS loss to the Giants. He signed with the Orioles before this season.
- Pedro Feliz, acquired by the Cardinals from the Astros on Aug. 19: St. Louis sent David Carpenter and cash to Houston in exchange for Feliz, who was added to help out at the hot corner when David Freese was injured. Feliz's already declining bat didn't improve for the Redbirds, who missed the postseason. Feliz signed a minor league deal with the Padres this month, while Carpenter is currently in the Astros' bullpen.
- Cody Ross, acquired by the Giants from the Marlins on waiver claim on Aug. 22: The Giants added an eventual World Series hero in acquiring Ross from the Marlins, who had little interest in retaining Ross, as he was becoming expensive with his final year of arbitration-eligibility looming.
- Brian Fuentes, acquired by the Twins from the Angels on Aug. 27: Minnesota added Fuentes to bolster its bullpen, and the lefty threw 9 2/3 shutout innings in the regular season and 2 2/3 shutout innings in the postseason before signing with the Athletics this offseason. The Angels acquired Loek Van Mil from the Twins as a player to be named.
- Manny Ramirez, acquired by the White Sox on a waiver claim from the Dodgers on Aug. 29: This was arguably the most notable move of the August post-deadline period, but it didn't amount to much for either teams or the player. The White Sox missed the postseason, the cash-strapped Dodgers got some salary relief, and Manny hit a quiet .261/.420/.319 before signing with the Rays this offseason (and eventually retiring).
- Manny Delcarmen, acquired by the Rockies from the Red Sox on Aug. 31: The Rox, still in contention for the wild card, needed bullpen depth, so they sent Chris Balcom-Miller to Boston for Delcarmen. The righty didn't pan out in Colorado, posting a 6.48 ERA in 8 1/3 innings for a team that missed the playoffs before being non-tendered this offseason. He's kicked around since then.
- Jeff Francoeur, acquired by the Rangers from the Mets on Aug. 31: Texas sent Joaquin Arias to the Mets for Frenchy, who played well in his brief time in Texas, hitting .340/.357/.491 down the stretch and seeing playing time during the postseason. Arias was waived by the Mets, while Francoeur signed the Royals this offseason and recently inked a two-year extension.
Full Story | Comments | Categories: Atlanta Braves | Boston Red Sox | Brian Fuentes | Chicago Cubs | Chicago White Sox | Chris Dickerson | Cincinnati Reds | Cody Ross | Colorado Rockies | Derrek Lee | Houston Astros | Jeff Francoeur | Jim Edmonds | Joaquin Arias | Los Angeles Dodgers | Manny Delcarmen | Manny Ramirez | Miami Marlins | Mike Fontenot | Mike Sweeney | Milwaukee Brewers | Minnesota Twins | New York Mets | Oakland Athletics | Pedro Feliz | Philadelphia Phillies | San Francisco Giants | Seattle Mariners | St. Louis Cardinals | Texas Rangers
AL Central Notes: Young, Francoeur, Thome, Indians
Fresh off a weekend sweep of the Indians, the Tigers send Justin Verlander to the mound against the streaking Rays tonight. Here are links from the AL Central as Verlander looks to build on the Tigers' division lead and boost his Cy Young candidacy…
- Twins manager Ron Gardenhire admitted that Minnesota was likely going to non-tender outfielder Delmon Young after the season, according to Rhett Bollinger of MLB.com (on Twitter). Instead, the Twins traded him to the Tigers.
- In a detailed piece, Rany Jazayerli explains that he doesn't like the Jeff Francoeur extension for the Royals, even though there's a good chance it'll work out and it probably won't hurt the Royals terribly.
- Twins slugger Jim Thome has wanted to return to the Indians ever since he left Cleveland in 2002, according to Anthony Castrovince of MLB.com (on Twitter). Thome hit waivers earlier today.
- MLB executives tell ESPN.com's Buster Olney that if the Twins gave a valued player like Thome away for nothing, it would draw major scrutiny (Twitter links). For example, there would be loud protests if the Twins released Thome so that he could sign with the Phillies or another team of his choice.
- Indians GM Chris Antonetti and manager Manny Acta both acknowledged to MLB.com's Jordan Bastian that their high profile summer acquisition, Ubaldo Jimenez, needs to make mechanical adjustments and modify his pitch sequencing (Twitter link).
Full Story | Comments | Categories: Cleveland Indians | Delmon Young | Jeff Francoeur | Jim Thome | Kansas City Royals | Minnesota Twins | Ubaldo Jimenez
Royals Notes: Cabrera, Francoeur, Starling
The Royals signed Jeff Francoeur to a two-year, $13.5MM extension today and the deal has inspired lots of chatter. Here are the latest Royals-related links…
- Royals GM Dayton Moore sidestepped a question about Melky Cabrera's future in Kansas City, according to MLB.com's Adam Holt. "That's a fair question, it's a question that should be asked," Moore said. "But right now, I'd just as soon not go down that road right now." The Royals control Cabrera's rights through arbitration in 2012 and don't appear to be nearing an extension with him.
- C. Trent Rosecrans of CBSSports.com says $13.5MM for two years of Francoeur is "probably a bit of an overpayment, but it's hardly cripling" for the Royals who benefit from the outfielder's production.
- FanGraphs' Eno Sarris agrees, writing that the extension will not cripple the Royals or suppress any prospects on the brink ot the Major Leagues.
- Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com says we should expect the Royals to add a veteran starting pitcher this offseason (Twitter link).
- The Royals say they started following Bubba Starling's athletic pursuits three years ago, according to the Kansas City Star, which re-publishes a Terez A. Paylor story from 2008 detailing the achievements of the eventual Royals draft pick. Kansas City selected the high schooler fourth overall in June and signed him to a $7.5MM bonus Monday.
Full Story | Comments | Categories: Bubba Starling | Jeff Francoeur | Kansas City Royals | Melky Cabrera
Royals Sign Francoeur To Two-Year Extension
12:36pm: The two-year deal is worth $13.5MM, according to Bob Dutton of the Kansas City (via Twitter).
10:18am: The Royals have signed outfielder Jeff Francoeur to a two-year extension, according to Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com (via Twitter). Terms of the deal have not yet been disclosed.
The Royals and Francoeur had a $4MM mutual option for 2012, so this deal buys that out and locks up Francoeur through the 2013 season. The 27-year-old right fielder, a one-time blue-chip prospect, signed with Kansas City in December after he was traded twice in less than two years, going from the Braves to the Mets to the Rangers.
Francoeur was mentioned prominently in trade rumors prior to last month's deadline, but he remained in Kansas City, where he is enjoying a modest renaissance from his nadir in New York. A career .269/.312/.430 hitter, Frenchy has been a bit better than that in 2011, hitting .278/.328/.465.
Francoeur and Royals GM Dayton Moore have always had a strong relationship, going back to their time together in the Braves organization, according to Knobler (Twitter link). Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports first reported last month that a possible extension was in the works.
Quiet Deadline Possible For Royals
Though Jeff Francis, Bruce Chen and Kyle Davies are drawing interest from several clubs, the Royals may hold onto all three and continue using a six-man rotation, according to Bob Dutton of the Kansas City Star. The Royals continue to say they're happy to hold onto the starters, who hit free agency after the season.
"Nothing has changed with our situation," GM Dayton Moore told Dutton. "The guys we have, I think, are more valuable to us than the potential [return]."
Chen projects as a Type B free agent under our most recent projections, so the Royals could obtain a supplementary draft pick if the left-hander turns down an offer of arbitration to sign elsewhere. Francis and Davies, however, don't currently project as ranked free agents, so the Royals can't expect picks for them.
Kansas City appears to be seeking a number three starter (or close to it) for Melky Cabrera or Jeff Francoeur. However, trades involving the two outfielders don't appear to be brewing at the moment.
Full Story | Comments | Categories: Bruce Chen | Jeff Francis | Jeff Francoeur | Kansas City Royals | Kyle Davies | Melky Cabrera
Passan On Upton, Nationals, Melky, Francoeur
The latest on the trade market from Yahoo's Jeff Passan…
- A number of MLB officials tell Passan that they consider the Nationals the favorites for B.J. Upton. However, a Rays official says there's no favorite at this point (click here for the latest on Upton).
- Nationals GM Mike Rizzo has told teams that pitching prospect Brad Peacock is not available.
- Nationals executives and scouts have told others that Ian Desmond is available (despite reports that that Washington will hold onto its shortstop).
- The Royals are leaning toward keeping Melky Cabrera in 2012, according to Passan. Cabrera, who is having an excellent season and remains under team control next year, might not fetch enough in a trade for GM Dayton Moore to pull the trigger.
- The Royals are hoping to work out some kind of contract for next year with Jeff Francoeur. The sides have a 2012 mutual option for $4MM, but the Royals would likely have to offer more to lock Francoeur up for next season. They get the impression that the 27-year-old is interested in staying in Kansas City.
Full Story | Comments | Categories: B.J. Upton | Ian Desmond | Jeff Francoeur | Kansas City Royals | Melky Cabrera | Tampa Bay Rays | Washington Nationals
Passan On Upton, Nationals, Melky, Francoeur
The latest on the trade market from Yahoo's Jeff Passan…
- A number of MLB officials tell Passan that they consider the Nationals the favorites for B.J. Upton. However, a Rays official says there's no favorite at this point (click here for the latest on Upton).
- Nationals GM Mike Rizzo has told teams that pitching prospect Brad Peacock is not available.
- Nationals executives and scouts have told others that Ian Desmond is available (despite reports that that Washington will hold onto its shortstop).
- The Royals are leaning toward keeping Melky Cabrera in 2012, according to Passan. Cabrera, who is having an excellent season and remains under team control next year, might not fetch enough in a trade for GM Dayton Moore to pull the trigger.
- The Royals are hoping to work out some kind of contract for next year with Jeff Francoeur. The sides have a 2012 mutual option for $4MM, but the Royals would likely have to offer more to lock Francoeur up for next season. They get the impression that the 27-year-old is interested in staying in Kansas City.
Full Story | Comments | Categories: B.J. Upton | Ian Desmond | Jeff Francoeur | Kansas City Royals | Melky Cabrera | Tampa Bay Rays | Washington Nationals
Red Sox Notes: Drew, Reddick, Francoeur
The Red Sox, who are already 25 games above .500, open a series against the Royals tonight. Here's the latest from Boston as Theo Epstein & Co. consider possible moves…
- The Red Sox have tons of feelers out and scouts are watching their Double-A Portland club intently, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter).
- J.D. Drew hit the disabled list with a left shoulder impingement today, but Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald hears that the injury won't make Red Sox more aggressive in talks for outfield help. Josh Reddick's emergence means the Red Sox have an in-house alternative to Drew.
- Jeff Francoeur told Rob Bradford of WEEI.com that it would be "neat" to be traded to Boston, though he's happy in Kansas City. "My dad took a train with my grandpa for tons of games to Fenway," Francoeur said. "I was in high school and had a Boston Red Sox credit card."
Full Story | Comments | Categories: Boston Red Sox | J.D. Drew | Jeff Francoeur | Josh Reddick | Kansas City Royals
Quick Hits: Nationals, Upton, Webb, Inge, Mariners
With nine days remaining before the trade deadline, the biggest trade chips in baseball are arguably Carlos Beltran (latest rumors) and Hunter Pence (latest rumors). Here are some other relevant links from around MLB…
- The Nationals are in greater need of outfield depth than infield help or a catcher, a baseball source tells Bill Ladson of MLB.com.
- The Rays pulled B.J. Upton and prospect Desmond Jennings from their respective games, tweets Adam Kilgore of the Washington Post (via Twitter). However, Upton says that he has not been traded, tweets Marc Topkin of the St. Petersburg Times.
- Rangers pitcher Brandon Webb will undergo surgery on his right shoulder with the intent to pitch again in 2012, according to his agent Jonathan Maurer. This will not be a full surgery of the rotator cuff but it will prevent him from throwing for four months.
- The Tigers would need to eat some salary to move Brandon Inge but teams still believe that the veteran has value, tweets Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com (via Twitter).
- The Reds scouted Jason Vargas and Doug Fister when the Mariners visited Toronto this week, a source told Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (via Twitter).
- Indians team president Mark Shapiro said that he expects the club will make a move in the next ten days, tweets Nick Camino of WTAM 1100.
- Reds GM Walt Jocketty told Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports that he's looking for a bat to insert at the top of the order or in the middle of the lineup. However, the Reds are also open to acquiring pitching, either for the rotation or the bullpen. The Reds have lots of depth, but Jocketty says he "hates" trading prospects.
- Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago hears that Hall of Fame executive Pat Gillick is open to a role with the Cubs. Gillick said last week that he's open to taking on a full-time role as a team president at some point in the future.
- MLB talent evaluators tell Alex Speier of WEEI.com that the Red Sox have a number of players whose prospect status is starting to rise and who could become elite prospects within a year. Though the Adrian Gonzalez deal made a major dent in Boston's farm system, Speier's sources say the Red Sox still have secondary prospects who could be valuable trade bait this summer. Third baseman Will Middlebrooks and right-hander Anthony Ranaudo are among the organization's top prospects.
- Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports confirms that the Red Sox have had exploratory conversations with the Royals about Jeff Francoeur.
Full Story | Comments | Categories: Anthony Ranaudo | Boston Red Sox | Brandon Inge | Brandon Webb | Chicago Cubs | Cincinnati Reds | Cleveland Indians | Detroit Tigers | Jason Vargas | Jeff Francoeur | Kansas City Royals | Pat Gillick | Seattle Mariners | Washington Nationals


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Nose: An old-fashioned tuck shop greats the nostrils; sherbet, Refreshers sweets and various boiled items in jars (the kind that shatter your teeth instantly). There's also an assortment of "Cinema Snacks" – mainly chocolate-coated raisins and toffee popcorn. Hints too of walnut, ginger and mace.
Palate: Very rich (and at 64%abv that means VERY rich), offering up stem ginger in syrup, parma violets, lemon meringue pie, chili and melted rum & raisin ice cream.
Finish: Long and sublimely sweet with exotic spices and pear juice.
Overall: A recurring theme of almost soapy parma violets seems to be popping up! A very unusual Caol Ila, and certainly one of the best Unpeated Caol Ilas we've had.
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I think of this Scottish "wine" as one of the best Caol Ila unpeated sofar! I'm by far not as good with words as you guys from MoM, I do understand (and have experienced) your wording of the tasting note and only missed one word, to be added: marshmellows.
16th November 2014
Amazing and noteworthy. Simple flavors, yet satisfying to drink. 2 of the 4 bottles I bought have been hidden on the back shelf.
6th December 2011