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20 August, 2012
Join us in Bonane on Sunday 26th August and watch as local lad Denis O'Sullivan attempts the U21 Record attempt for sheep shearing. He's going for a massive challenge of shearing 300 (yes that's 300!!) in 8 hours!
19 year old Denis O' Sullivan from Bonane, Kenmare, Co. Kerry has set himself a personal record in sheep shearing on Sunday 26th August in Bonane village in aid of the Irish Cancer Society and Bonane Community Council.
Denis aims to shear 300 lambs in an 8 hour working day. This is a challenge yet to be achieved by any Irish person under the age of 21.
Denis already has an All-Ireland title under his belt in shearing and recently was team captain of the Irish sheep shearing team in Scotland at the International development test where they achieved first place.
The proceeds of this event will go equally between the Irish Cancer Society and Bonane Community Council. Denis says "I am looking forward to doing this event, it is for two causes close to my heart on a local and national level, it would be of great pride to be the youngest shearer in Ireland to achieve this challenge".
Denis looks forward to welcoming all his supporters on the day.
Alongside the sheep shearing Bonane Community Council will host a family fun day from 12noon to 6pm with loads of entertainment for children and adults alike, followed by a pig and spit and local entertainment. At 9pm a Barn dance will commence. Music by Neil & Declan and local DJ Martin Reilly, who will take you into the wee hours.
Please come along to support Denis and enjoy a great day out!
For more information on the day please call Irene Carey on 086 0628892 or email firstname.lastname@example.com
Come and have a great family day out!
24 November, 2011
Christmas is around the corner and to get in to the Festive Season, Bonane Heritage Park is offering special discount prices on Family Tickets. The offer is valid from Saturday 3rd December 2011 until Sunday 1st April 2012 (inclusive) and a visit to the Park for a family* is now only €8 - a saving of 20%
*2 Adults and up to 3 Children
30 April, 2011
We've teamed up with a number of other attractions in the region to produce a discount voucher that gives you the opportunity to avail of 10% off either the entry fee or something similar on each and every one taking part. Visit Bonane Heritage Park and when you pay your entry fee you'll be given a voucher for 10% off at the following locations:
30 April, 2011
We are delighted that we are now able to offer our visitors the opportunity to book tickets for Bonane Heritage Park through Tesco Clubcard Deals. In exchange for €2.50 of vouchers you can avail of a family ticket worth €10 that gives entry into the park for 2 adults and 2 children. We'll appear in the Tesco Clubcard magazine every quarter (May 2011 is the next one out) and exchanging clubcard points couldn't be easier. Simply click on the link below, then select 'Days Out' and Bonane Heritage Park is on the first page. This will give you all the informtion you need:
Obviously in order to get the translations done we have had great support from people locally and we would especially like to thank Hilary Brosnan for doing the French version and Brendan O'Sullivan for doing Gaeilge. Hilary is well known in Kenmare and has a Masters in French, her translation is word perfect and if you are an attraction provider looking to offer the same service, she comes highly recommended and can be contacted via our email address which is
Brendan O'Sullivan is a local historian from Bonane and has been heavily involved with the Heritage Park from the outset - again we are immensely grateful to both for taking the time to do the translations.
30 March, 2011
The campaign against extracting water from the Sheen River has been raging for 4 years now but, finally, there is to be a meeting hosted by An Bord Pleanála at the Kenmare Bay Hotel at 10am on Monday 11th April 2011. This is a public meeting and we would encourage as many people as possible to attend - even if you can only be there for part of it. Support for this campaign is crucial so please make your opinion count and have your say. Remember, the date for your diary is Monday 11th April at 10am.
28 February, 2011
We are delighted to have been approached by HotelsCombined, a search engine for hotel accommodation across the world, and they are recommending Bonane Heritage Park on their website as a place to see when visiting Kenmare. Hopefully this continue to encourage visitors to our fantastic location and give new and returning customers the highlight of their stay in Co. Kerry. Click on the link to find out more:
1 January, 2011
And so another year is upon us and we would like to take this opportunity to wish all visitors and supporters of the park a very Happy New Year and we look forward to welcoming not just old friends but hopefully new ones too. All the best for 2011.
29 November, 2010
It might cause a nuisance most of the time but there is something so special about looking out over a snow covered landscape and the views from up at the heritage park will make you gasp and reach for your camera. So, rather than be defeated, why not take a trip up to the park and see it for yourself?
11 November, 2010
Cork Cancer Research Centre has raised a massive €75000 from the gruelling challenge that saw participants walk 70km in just 3 days. Bonane Heritage Park was delighted to welcome the walkers, where we were able to provide a plentiful supply of hot water. The letter of thanks received from Helen Slattery, Development Officer for the charity, was most appreciated and we were pleased to be able to offer our support for such a worthwhile occasion.
If you would like to know more about the charity, click www.ccrc.ie/ to view the website and if you're ready for a challenge, why not sign up and take part in next year's walk, see www.kerrywaycancerwalk.ie/home for details.
29 September, 2010
This year we introduced an activity pack for children that could be done whilst walking around the park with their families/friends. The pack was put together to be informative, fun and educational and something that would hopefully involve all the family; the activities include a bird spotting card, dot-to-dot, word search, maze, colouring sheets, information about some of the common wildflowers to be found whilst walking around and to round it all off, a pack of colouring pencils. The activity sheets have proven to be a real success with praise for the variety of things to do. The bird spotting really seemed to engage a number of children and several reported back to us that they'd seen a whole host of different species such as tree creepers and even a kestrel! So well done to all those budding ornithologists. Next year we'll have to set more challenging activities so watch this space!
July 3, 2010
We had a truly lovely day when, as part of a packed itinerary, members of 'Friends of Europe' from Denmark made the journey from Cashel in Co. Tipperary to the Heritage Park. We were blessed with good weather and on arrival we had refreshments organized before heading up to the park for a tour with our very own chairperson Danny O'Connor and archaeologist Dr. Niall Gregory. The afternoon flew by with the perfect blend of information and good humour before our new friends had to board the coach back to Cashel.
We were delighted to have had the opportunity to welcome the group to the Heritage Park and hopefully they enjoyed their stay in Ireland. We would also like to extend a big Thank You for generously purchasing a tree which will be planted and dedicated to their visit.
July 2, 2010
You may be aware that there is an on-going project to see the re-introduction of the White-tailed Sea Eagle to Ireland following extinction 100 years ago and in 2007 a number of birds were released in Kerry. The success of the project was such that a further 8 were released in 2008 and since then the birds, which have coloured tags and radio transmitters, have been tracked to east Cork, Lough Corrib, Co Galway, Ox Mountains in Sligo, Lough Mask, Co Sligo and even in Northern Ireland*. Spotting such a bird must surely be the experience of a lifetime and that's exactly what happened to a resident in Bonane; on looking up, the lucky lady saw the bird gliding across the sky. She was able to watch it for a time before it headed across the mountains and out of view. It has caused a stirring of excitement in the village and we've made contact with the agency involved in the project to see whether the bird has taken up residence or whether it was just doing a 'reccy' on us! We'll keep you updated but I can say with certainty that we'd be delighted to see more of such a beautiful and majestic bird.
* Information obtained from the Department of the Environment at
June 25, 2010
We're going international! Over the coming months you'll be able to find us in a variety of places but to get the ball rolling we've created a listing on Trip Advisor so if you want to check us out or you've visited us and have a comment to make please look us up. Trip Advisor is the place to start for information so click on the link and see what others are writing about us:
Read unbiased opinions about hotels and vacations at TripAdvisor
May 18, 2010
The award was proudly received by members of the Bonane Community Co-Operative Society at a ceremony held in Killala, Co. Mayo on 13th May.
Killala were last years winners and put themselves forward as hosts for this year and we were invited by Irish Rural Link to attend the two day event. Kerry to Mayo is a good distance to travel so we decided to go the day before and then make the most of the time we had in the morning exploring a bit of the county. On arrival at the community centre we were greeted by the committee and made to feel very welcome by everyone there; we could have settled in for the day as we enjoyed good company, tea, sandwiches and scones but as it was we were treated to a programme of activities showcasing the highlights of the area including:
Enniscoe House
Killala Steel Precision
North West Women's Project
Ceide Fields
At the end of a remarkable day we arrived back at the community centre and with everyone seated for dinner, we were presented with the award. Everyone is still smiling! Dinner was delightful and again we enjoyed wonderful company.
The award that we so proudly received is the Category One National Rural Awards and we will no doubt be arguing over who gets to keep the prize!! We were presented with a beautiful crystal vase and a €1000 worth of training from Career Decisions. We would like to thank Irish Rural Link for organizing such a great event, Killala Community for being fantastic hosts and then the people on the ground who give their time and support so freely, they include all members of the Bonane Community Co-Operative Society, South Kerry Development Partnership, FAS, Coillte and members of the Rural Social Scheme and the Community Employment Scheme. It maybe too soon to say that it's becoming a habit, but we shall revel in the glory for a little while longer!
May 7, 2010
We are delighted to have been nominated for a National Award for the work done by Bonane Community Co-Operative Society in the area of Social Inclusion. We will find out next week at the award ceremony to be held in Killala, Co. Mayo on Thursday 13th May whether we have been successful. We would particularly like to thank:
South Kerry Development Partnership
Rural Social Scheme and the members who work so hard
FAS and the Community Employment Scheme
They are tireless in their support and we appreciate all the help and encouragement given by them. Watch this space and keep your fingers crossed for us.
May 3, 2010
Following the success of the Feasibility Study the Committee has decided that the proposed plans for a new Heritage Centre should be moved onto to the next stage so there is a great deal of work ahead of us but it is an exciting prospect with great rewards at the end. We will keep you up to date with our progress at each stage.
Apr 09, 2010
Annual AGM: Brooklane Hotel, Kenmare Friday 19th March
Thanks to all the shareholders for their attendance at the AGM and their ongoing support of the Heritage Park. The Chair, Mr Danny O'Connor extended his thanks to Caroline Dempsey for all her hard work and effort during her time on the committe and also as an employee to the Heritage Park; we wish her all the very best in her new ventures.
Mar 26, 2010
The SAOIRSE FOUNDATION, which aims to raise awareness of Battens Disease by providing information and support to families affected by the illness, had a major boost recently by having their campaign highlighted on the Late Late Show. Battens is a terminal disease that affects toddlers and children; it is an inherited disorder of the nervous system and is named after the British paediatrician who first described it in 1903.
The founding members of the SAOIRSE FOUNDATION, Tony and Mary Heffernan have two children who have the disease and are hoping to raise funds for research and medical trials not only for their children but also other children diagnosed with the disorder thus giving hope to them and their families.
The coverage given by the Late Late Show has really brought their campaign to the forefront and the volume of support received to date has been truly amazing; there are a number of events taking place across the country over the coming weeks so check the website (link below) to find out how to get involved. On a local note, Bonane Community Co-operative Society is delighted to be able to do their bit and have provided a laptop for the foundation and are planning a family day out on the Sunday 20th June to make the most of the Summer Solstice the following day - keep an eye on this website for further information.
On Saturday 10th April the Brooklane Hotel in Kenmare is hosting an evening of entertainment - there will be food provided, local bands getting the atmosphere going and prizes galore. Contact the hotel on 064 6642077 for further details and tickets. If you would like more information about Battens or how you can get involved click on the following link
We wish the foundation much success in their mission.
Mar 25,2010
The residents of Bonane and Kenmare have had great news this week; following a long drawn out consultation process it has been decided that water is NOT going to be extracted from the River Sheen as the supply for the local environs. Many people have worked hard to ensure that a more suitable option is found and now finally the battle is over thanks to the tireless efforts of many people. Appreciation and thanks are extended to all those that played a part, not least the Bonane Community Council, Dr. John Stilling for all his help and also the people of Kenmare and the surrounding areas for their support - it couldn't have happened without you.
Mar 11, 2010
Congratulations to the Fastnet Line on its inaugural sailing yesterday (Mar 10) of the MV Julia. It has been widely supported by businesses in Cork and Kerry alike and will hopefully see in a new dawn of travel between the UK and Ireland. The service, which runs overnight, will open the door to the beautiful Sout West of Ireland but without the lengthy journey from Rosslare. Set down in Cork refreshed and ready to explore the delights on offer here - you can be sure of a warm welcome when you arrive. Check out the sailings on the Fastnet Line website at
Mar 10, 2010
Another run of the successful play has unfortunately come to an end after 12 sell out performances at the Carnegie Art Centre in Kenmare, Co Kerry.
The play was actually showcased last year for the first time following an idea from local Bonane community member Patricia O'Sullivan Murphy. The ladies from the Bonane Women's Group got together and the concept was expanded in to the full version we see today. We would like to take this opportunity to extend our 'congratulations' to all involved and also express our most sincere thanks to them for their continuing support in promoting the local heritage and culture of Bonane - we wish you every success in all future ventures and productions; we can't wait to see the next installment! If you would like to see the programme produced for the play, inlcuding the names of all those involved, please email us at firstname.lastname@example.com; who knows, next time you're in Bonane you might bump into one of the stars!
Feb 12, 2010
First of all may we take this opportunity to welcome in the New Year and say that we're looking forward to greeting visitors to the park both old and new and don't forget that you can become a 'Friend of Bonane Heritage Park' - please contact any member of the committee for further information
The Annual General Meeting of the Bonane Heritage Park Co-operative will take place at the Brook Lane Hotel, Kenmare at 9pm on Friday 19th March.
Dec 21, 2009
Bonane Heritage Park has had another exciting year with well over 6000 visitors and we look forward to continuing the success into 2010. With your continued support and the support of our members, SKDP and also 'Coillte' who have been enormously helpful since the park opened, we hope to improve the park still further. In the new year we will update the website with more information and also create a 'blog' and a newsletter - watch this space. For 2009 all that remains is to say thank you and we wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Dec 18, 2009
The great news is that the Cork - Swansea Ferry will be back in service on March 1st 2010 and it is largely down to the efforts of individuals and companies from both Kerry and Cork. The ferry provides a great link between the South West of Ireland and the UK and provides travellers with easy access to so many wonderful attractions that are on offer, not least Bonane Heritage Park, without that long and arduous journey from Rosslare. Instead, travel overnight and wake up refreshed and ready for your holiday. Shareholders, by investing their money and showing their faith in this venture, are responsible for getting the ferry afloat and opening up this spectacular corner of Ireland and therefore our thanks are extended to them.
Dec 18, 2009
The Feasibility Study is now available for reading in pdf format by clicking the link and whilst it makes for interesting reading, please avoid printing the document either in full or in part as it is costly to the environment. Just to re-iterate, we are enormously thankful to Nicholas de Jonge Associates for the support and professionalism in the completion of this study and we'll keep you updated on the progress of the Heritage Centre as it happens. Special thanks is also extended to the South Kerry Development Partnership (SKDP) for the funding that made this feasibility study possible.
Oct 20, 2009
The Feasibilty Study on the Impact Assessment and Development of Bonane Heritage Centre is now completed. The Study was carried out by Nicholas de Jonge Associates, the work was completed in a very professional manor with all our queries being fully dealt with and all answered in totality.
The Report will be available to view via the our website in the coming weeks.
Oct 06, 2009
Thank you to all the people from all parts of the globe who visited us so far this year, while in general the Tourism trade is not as good as in previous years Bonane Heritage Park is proving to be a popular attraction, we are grateful to all who have taken the time to visit our Heritage Park and we hope you will come visit us again in the future.
Oct 06, 2009
To all our staff and anyone who has helped us out this year or at any stage we would like to extend a very big Thank You, we are always grateful for the help and support we receive which enables us to continue to make Bonane Heritage Park the wonderful and relaxing place it is. Without your continued support we would not have reached the heights we have to date.
Jun 10, 2009
A Public Meeting will be held in the Lansdowne Arms Hotel on Friday 3rd July at 8pm to discuss the ongoing Feasibility Study on the Impact Assessment and Development of Bonane Heritage Centre. This meeting is open to all and Nicholas de Jong Associates will be attendance to give a presentation on their findings to-date.
Jun 10, 2009
The Summer Solstice Sun-rise which you can observe from the Stone circle in the Heritage Park on the morning of 21st June each year is a spectacular sight. When you stand in the Stone Circle, look east at a Cairn on the horizon, the sun will rise directly behind the Cairn at 6.40am. It then shines down over the Fulacht Fiadh and in through the two Entrance Stones and onto the Boulder Burial to form a perfect alignment. Should you be interested in attending the above mentioned Sunrise please Contact Us via email or phone.
Jun 5, 2009
The contract for the Feasibility Study on the Impact Assessment and Development of Bonane Heritage Centre was awarded to Nicholas de Jong Associates, Urban Design of Limerick. Work has commenced on the project and will be ongoing throughout June and July.
Apr 1, 2009
Annual AGM: Brooklane Hotel, Kenmare Friday 20th March.
Thanks to all the shareholders for their attendance at the AGM and ongoing support of the Heritage Park. We would like to welcome two new committee members: Denise O'Shea and Karina O'Connor. Also thanks to Paul Tanner for all his input during his time on the committee.
Apr 1, 2009
Anyone interested in becoming a Friends of Bonane Heritage Park or a Shareholder please contact a member of the committe via email email@example.com or by phone +353 (0)85 7677869
Dec 19, 2008
Archaeological, Environmental and Tourism Consultants are invited to tender for this project.
It is proposed to investigate if a Heritage Centre should be developed in Bonane with the aim of showcasing the Geological, Archaeological, Ecological, and Historical and Cultural heritage of the area for the benefit of all the residents, visitors and tourists, with a particular focus of its use as an educational resource.
The purpose of the research is to identify and develop the Statement of Need into the development of a suitable Heritage Centre in Bonane that will provide an accessible and socially inclusive tourist attraction with minimum or no impact on the environment.
The closing date for submission of tenders is the 30th January 2009.
For further information please email email@example.com
Nov 10, 2008
Author: Caroline
Saturday the 8th November 2008 was the date for the Pride of Place Awards Ceremony in Cappoquin, Co. Waterford. Although only two members of the Committee could attend the Awards function, 18 people in total travelled to Cappoquin for the event.
We were entered in Category Nine, the Environment Category, when this Category was announced we were delighted to discover that we were one of six Short listed for the Award, we were not called out as 1st or 2nd Runner-Up so while disappointed for a few seconds realization quickly dawned that we were actually now in with a 1 in 4 chance of winning the Award.
There was a break in proceedings after the presentation of the Runner-Up Awards for each category. This was shortly followed by the arrival of the President; Mary McAleese. The presentation of prizes recommenced after this and it was a very anxious wait for Category Nine, the first few words gave nothing away but then as they continued to speak of the Winning Entry we discovered to much delight that we had in fact achieved our aim in winning this Award.
We were delighted to receive the Award from President Mary McAleese.
This was quickly followed by calls and texts to all the supporters just as anxiously awaiting the news in Cappoquin and Kerry. I need not tell you we did celebrate.
Upon our return to Bonane Sunday afternoon we were welcomed by a large crowd of well wishers.
Congratulations and thanks to everyone who helped to get us here.
Aug 21, 2008
Daily Guided Tours of the Park. Please contact us at email@example.com or phone us at +353 (0)85 7677869
The Heritage Park includes sites such as Stone Circle, Ringfort and Fulacht Fiadh, some dating from 3000BC with unique solar and Lunar alignments.
Click on the link to open the Bonane Heritage Park Brochure


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grass to garden, ASAP/cheap?
Hi. I am moving to a new place in a few weeks and will have a yard for the first time. I've never had a garden before, but want to start gardening organically. All I have there is a small raised bed that was gardened last year, small patches of blackberries and rhubarb and alot of yard.
I've been doing some researching on the internet and started posting in another forum; and have gotten some ideas but also getting confused. I like the idea of sheet composting/lasagna gardening; but don't have the financial resources for buying a bunch of peat moss, vermiculture, organic mulch or tons of straw or hay bales.
What I do have is, free access to plenty of horse manure and alot of tall pasture grass that I could cut down and use. Is there a way to make this work in terms of getting a garden planted in a few days/ a weeks time?
Thanks in advance to anyone for any help/ideas.
You don't need any of those things, in my opinion. The secret of organic gardening is to improve the health of the soil microbes. They eat food. They need protein, carbohydrates, vitamins, minerals, and enzymes in order to thrive. My favorite foods for them are corn meal and alfalfa pellets. With the price of corn going up, this year I'm using alfalfa pellets at a rate of 10-20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. For shrubs I use a heaping handful scattered under each plant every month.
Horse manure and finished compost don't have much remaining protein, so I stay away from those. What they do have is an incredible quantity of microbes, so if you think your soil needs microbes (doubtful unless you are on sugar sand or have had a chemical spill in the past 3 months), then you can start right away with the protein supplements.
You do not need, or want, peat moss. In Illinois you may have access to lots of organic matter that others think of as waste and throw away, tree leaves, grass clippings, etc. although getting them from where they are to where you need them could be a challange.
There is no real good way to get from grass to a good garden in a few short weeks although by layering first newspaper and then other material you could be gardening relativel soon.
Do you have any idea what the soil in your new place is like?
You can create a garden area very fast and the only expense will be your own labor. It may not offer optimum conditions initially but it will be sufficient to get a start for this season and you can continue to improve it as time goes on.
Define the area you want as a garden and remove the sod in that location - cut into narrow strips and use the flat blade of your shovel to sever it at the roots. (save the removed sod and use it, root side up, as the beginnings of a lasagna bed elsewhere, or the start of a compost pile) Loosen the soil adequately and add whatever organic matter you have at hand - the horse manure is great as long as it has been aged well. You are ready to plant!
This is really the fastest, simplest and least expensive way of creating a new garden bed and it has been done in this manner for centuries. You will need to continue to add to the soil conditions over time with whatever organic matter/compost you can obtain, starting with mulching your crops this growing season. Plant a nitrogen-fixing cover crop after harvest as well. In a couple of years your soil should be pretty much ideal.
IME, dchall's "food sources" are not all that necessary unless you are doing intensive, heavy cropping. Compost or composted manure will provide the bulk of the nutrients plants need as well as the fodder for the soil microbes. But it never hurts to have your soil tested before planting and address directly any obvious deficiencies through specific amendments. The cost of these should be minimal unless you are planning a massive garden :-)
Hey Dean--
Zone 6 Illinois here (Marion), organic since 1992. Agree on no peat moss. You are starting on the journey that I began in 1996 when I bought my current property. My soil was heavy clay and acidic.
If you don't do a lasagna garden (I didn't) I would, in this order: rent a sod cutter and remove the sod layer (wish I had done that--would have saved a ton of later weeding), get a soil sample at your County Extension office, buy a tiller, till in the horse manure (make sure it's aged and not hot), start a compost pile for your grass clippings, and locate your nearest source of cheap municipal compost (for me it is in Carterville and sells for $10 per cubic yard, which is 1 full scoop of a bucket on a New Holland tractor).
The compost and manure will be necessary to improve the tilth of the soil. My guess is you will need to lime as well, but don't until you get your soil test results.
Avoid nutrient specific fertilizers, although a little bone meal beneath the planting hole and earthworm castings in it would be a good idea. Compost and aerated compost tea heals all.
I have a bunch of organic heirloom tomato starts in cells--many more than I need. If you are near Marion you are welcome to a couple of them (Lucky Cross and Uncle Mark Bagby), as you will not find heirloom starts at Rural King here. Email me at firstname.lastname@example.com.
There are at least 3 issues to consider.
1. Remove existing vegetation. Dig, till or smother. All work, just pick the one you least dislike ;-)
2. Nutrient availability for the plants. Fertilizers whether the grains some use or a store bought mix can compensate for any deficiency until the soils fertility is built up over time.
3. Soil structure. Some plants will grow in the hardest, most compact soils, but most plants will show significantly more vigor if the soil is soft, loose and workable by hand. If the soil isn't that way, you will benefit from getting it that way. Lots of manure and compost and other organic matter is a terrific way to do it, but if you need to move fast and don't have ready access to materials or if the manure is real fresh then peat is an easily found and not too expensive amendment that works wonders on soil tilth.
You can focus on building a great garden over the years. AS someone on the forums once said, 'Loam wasn't built in a day' ;-)
Th quick and easy method is rent/buy/borrow a tiller and get rid of existing vegetation. Make another pass and work in peat until the soil is so easily workable that you can do all planting by hand without tools. Add fertilizer to crops the first year.
I would cast my vote in favor of getting rid of the existing grass/weeds/etc. BEFORE you till. While you can just till, unless it is a pure stand of ONLY grasses, you will also have weeeds. If you have weeds, you also have their seeds. Removing the sod first will remove many of the seeds, and will also remove any grasses that, like the original, unimproved, evil Bermuda grass, spread by rhizomes - each small bit of root will grow new grass! Tilling over the grass does cut up the grass, but it also cuts up the roots - I've been there and done that one!
If you don't want to buy a tiller, and I would wait on buying one to be sure you really want one and what one you want, there should be a place you can rent one - local lawnmower/small engine repair shops usually have them to rent. Once you get the sod removed, whether by hand, which IS hard work, but only costs time and effort, or by a rented machine, then get whatever organic matter amendments you can - I don't really like peat, for any number of reasons, but for a one-time use, and if it's all you can get, then use it along with aged manure, etc. - spread them out after you have made a couple of passes, so the ground is beginning to get loose and till them in. If you can get a soil test done between now and then, you can also till in whatever amendments recommended by the test. The place here that rents tillers throws in Sun. for free with the Sat. rental, since they aren't open on Sun. for you to return it. If there isn't a rental place in a reasonable distance, then ask around your neighbors - I am sure you would find someone to either lend/rent you a tiller or who will do it for you - for free if you are lucky.
Oh yes, one other bit of advice - you should, this one time, till as much as you can, as deep as you can, so you have loosened the soil and added the amendments, to a depth of at least 6", 8-12" would be better, especially if you want to grow root crops. Make multiple passes, in both directions, and then do the same at right angles to the first directions. My other advice is not to get too big a tiller - I don't know how big nor how strong you are, and if you are a large, strong male, ignore this - as a relatively strong, 125 lb. female, I have trouble managing a full size, major horse-power tiller that weighs more than I do. If it 'decides' to go left, I can't usually make it go right, which is why I have a baby, Mantis tiller. I grant, my vegetable garden is on a slight slope, but still....
To get a soil test done inexpensively, contact your county agriculture extension agent - call the county office and find out the procedure. It may take longer than youi have time to wait for, but you can add the things recommended later, as side-dressings to the plants.
The other thing I would start at once is a compost pile. You can start with the stripped-off sods, laid face down, and then add everything else you can lay hands on. Keep it moist, etc., etc. Go to the Soils and Compost Forum to learn a LOT more...
Thanks for the responses. This is my Grandmother's old house, where much of the area I am looking to convert to garden, used to be garden to begin with. As she got older, more and more was planted over with grass.
I like the lasagna idea but, especially for a large garden, it seems like it will be difficult to scrounge up enough newspapers, leaves, etc. and too expensive to buy all the necessary other stuff.
The idea of removing the sod and using it to start my compost pile was mentioned to me before and sounds good. I guess though I'm a little intimidated with the thought of using a sod cutter. I have very poor mechanical aptitude as I am borderline autistic. I guess I could give it a whirl though, what's the worst that could happen?
My Grandmother does have an old tiller. As issues regarding what to do with her possessions are still to be worked out this week, I don't know if it will still be there by the time I am able to move in later this month.
I am thinking I will use the existing raised bed to plant some carrots and beets. I want a bed ready ASAP to get some spring greens in the ground. Then, I'd have a few weeks to get another area ready for summer stuff (tomato and pepper starts, squash, cantaloupe). And then, a few months to work up an area for fall greens, brussels sprouts, which I'd like to cover with a hoophouse in the fall. Maybe some daikon radishes to follow the beets and carrots in the existing raised bed.
For the soil test, would I have to have the sod removed before it could be done? Any idea how much we are talking here to do it, $20, $200, $2000? I have no idea.
For the soil test, you just need to dig out some of the soil, usually from several places and at a depth of about 4-8", mix it together, and then package up as much as is called for. The kit will come with directions. If you are planning on gardening in the same area as the "old" garden, then take your samples there. You can always get another test done in whatever other area you decide to use. The cost SHOULD be well under $100, closer to the $20, for the Extension agency office test kit. Privately done, probably closer to the $200.
As far as the lasagne idea - you can usually get newspaper or cardboard boxes for the asking. If there are farms in the area, you should be able to get animal manure - if you can get aged, great, and if not, get it ASAP and age it in piles yourself. The farms may well have spoiled hay or feed - too moldy or that got wet, so it's no good for feed, but is perfect for layering - just be careful, if it's moldy, to wear a breathing mask - the spores won't be good for you, but will give a headstart on the material rotting. Ask at the local grocery stores if they will save any spoiled veggies and fruit, as well as the veggie trimmings. Ask the local coffee shop - or the 24 hr. gas station - if they will save used coffee grounds for you - provide them with a 5-gal. bucket with lid, and pick it up every few days. There are lots of ways to get stuff for compost piles or for lasagne gardening.
Worse comes to worst, and the old tiller goes to someone else before you get there, what are the odds of asking whoever (cousin, uncle, whoever) takes it to till an area up for you before they load it up and take it away? It won't be ideal, and you may not be able to pick the area, nor the size, but you WILL have a minimally tilled area to start with. Digging in amendments to an already tilled area is a LOT easier than hand digging and then adding amendments - if you can't or don't want to rent a tiller.
Good luck.
Well, when I do that enter the zip code to get your zone thing, it comes up zone 6; but I think it's right on the border.
I've been looking at the extension website and getting some good info about what varieties work best and it's just a matter of finding those varieties in organic seed. I need to order some seeds this week as I don't know how difficult it is to find organic seed in local stores.
The site also says that they don't do soil testing. It just has a list (last updated in 2004) of private labs.
I meant to thank you for offering the tomatoes; but looking at a map, we are still quite a distance from each other. Anyway, I get acid reflux issues with tomatoes, so I won't be planting much. My Dad planted those yellow ones a few years ago and they didn't seem to bother me; but I just read the other night that they actually do not have a lower acid level than the red ones. Must have been placebo effect or something.
What I am most interested in growing/eating is broccoli, brussels sprouts, and a wide variety of greens. I definitely want to have a good area ready for later this summer to get some fall greens and hopefully through the winter, if I can get a hoophouse (with the extra layer of insulation) over them.
Lasagna gardening is the fastest and backsaving way to harvest something from your garden.
YOu will need some amendments any way to improve soil after you remove sod, so why not to use them without removing sod at first and enjoy later benefits of raised beds?
So, what i did: bought brown paper that painters are using to cover floor, mowed grass short, made a long narrow (4X10 feet) bed using 2X6 lumber, covered grass inside with brown paper, watered it, put on top everything that I had: manure, grass cuttings, unfinished compost, pet moss and so on, covered with thin layer of soil and planted veggies. I gave them fish fertilizer at first but then when things decomposed, my veggies got only occational compost tea and i enjoyed harvesting them.
I'm not sure about the manure. I'll have to check with my uncle. He's raised miniature horses for many years so I imagine he would have some aged. I read somewhere else that it has to be atleast 6 months old to use directly on the garden.
galcho, I hadn't thought about that brown paper painters use. Could be an option if I can't track down newspaper. You didn't do any other "brown" layers in your lasagna other than the paper on the bottom?
You can add browns & greens to your garden without spending anything.
I get coffee grounds from Starbucks, tea leaves from a restaurant, horse manure from a neighbor, & I toss all the weeds & grass clippings into the mix as well.
For browns, you can get tons of cardboard (I like it better than newspaper; it doesn't mat down or fly away so easily, & you only need one layer) at places like the dollar store, fast food places, liquor stores, grocery stores.
Find out when the stores get their merchandise delivered.
When they unload the delivery truck, they stock the shelves & throw out the cardboard.
Best luck, & enjoy your garden!
Contact your local office of the University of Illinois USDA Cooperative Extension Service and the will outline for you how to sample for a soil test. Usually it will be to take a soil sample from the top 6 inches, clear out all large chunks of organic and mineral material (grass and stones), and bring enough into the office to make a 1 pint sample.
Removing all of what is growing in that space now is a waste of good organic matter and tilling does not clean up "weeds" but instead will turn up more "weed" seeds to grow. The grass that is growing in those planting beds now will help feed the Soil Food Web and eventually the plants that you want to grow there. Simply covering the area with newspaper and covering the newspaper with something to hold it in place (and hide it) will go quite far in getting the needed organic matter in to your soil faster than you could by tilling.
Here is a link that might be useful: University of Illinois CES
sorry, didn't say that well.
One layer of cardboard is easier to manage than several layers of newspaper.
Yes, you can layer materials, just like making a cake:
But there's no rule as to how many layers the cake has to be, or how thick each layer is, as long as each layer gets completely "cooked".
I don't have a hard & fast rule about how much of this, how many inches of that, I just try to put down enough carbon/cardboard to suppress weeds and/or kill grass & then add enough nitrogen/greens to get the process going without smelling like ammonia, & I always try to keep a layer of carbon on top, just looks better & I have neighbors.
Like I mentioned earlier, according the extension service website they do not do soil testing. All they have is a list from 2004 of private labs who will.
sylvia, when you say you keep a carbon layer on top do you mean as a mulch after you plant? Something like sawdust or wood chips?
I'm still a little confused about what would be the top soil in terms of what I'd plant the seed into. Would I be able to use all that free stuff (cardboard, manure, grass, etc.) to build the layers until the top and then I need peat moss to actually plant in?
Yes, wood chips are great, as are shredded tree trimmings that I get by asking the guys in the big orange trucks if they'll drop their trimmings in my driveway instead of going all the way out to the dump.
There are some things that'll grow in unfinished lasagna, potatoes come to mind, but I think most plants need soil of some sort.
If you make a planting hole in the lasagna, supplement with a little soil from somewhere else (maybe another area of your lot), & plant your plant, it'll do fine.
If you're starting from seed, you may need to be a little more careful about the medium at first:
I have hard clay soil, & even with amendments, it's too hard for seeds.
I have to buy potting soil to start seeds (still cheaper than buying plants or groceries).
Once they're established, they can go right into the garden.
If you can water with a fish & seaweed solution (gotta buy that stuff, sorry!) or a compost tea, especially if you use them as a foliar feed as well, your garden should grow!
ok...I guess I was hung up on the layering connotation of the word "lasagna". Basically, all I would really need to do is put down the newspaper/cardboard layer, then one thick layer of the manure (assuming it's aged atleast 6 months), then top it off with some shredded tree trimmings or similar, poke holes where I'm going to plant, fill them with potting soil and plant the starts/seeds?
Or assuming I am able to get enough shreddings or similar from a tree trimming place, would I be better off with two thinner layers of the manure with a layer of the wood shreddings both in between the manure layers and on top?
Here is a link to the postings I made last year while making my first lasagna bed last year. I am in Wisconsin, so almost neighbors. It has pictures also. http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/wisconsin/msg0415063014489.html
If you have any questions about it, just contact me.
Good Luck!!

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Lori Dauphiny's blog
Henley 2011
Today we had the privilege of racing the US National team. The tiger women fought hard and with great pride! While racing Princeton, the US national team went on to set every course record- the Barrier, Fawley and the course record. I could not be prouder of our team and all involved.
Henley 2011
We are one day away from racing at the Henley Royal Regatta. The conditions are perfect. Hundreds of fans are pouring into town to check out the racing and festivities. The Remenham Challenge Cup is highly contested this year with national teams from Great Britain and the US as well as Brown University and others. We will race the US women's eight, the defending world champions tomorrow. It is an opportunity of a lifetime. We are honored to meet up with the best in the world and will give it our all.


text:
Sean Chen Designated New Premier
2012/01/30 Browse:551
Source: All Taipei newspapers
January 30, 2012
After securing re-election, President Ma Ying-jeou (馬英九) promised to make an all-out effort to reform governance in the next four years in order to push for Taiwan's rebirth and create a "Golden Decade." As Taiwan is expected to face its severest challenge as a result of the European debt crisis in the first quarter of 2012, 62-year-old Vice Premier Sean Chen (陳冲), a.k.a. "Taiwan's Wizard of Finance and Economics," was designated as the new Premier during the Chinese New Year Holiday, following in the path of his long-ago predecessors Premiers Sun Yun-suan (孫運璿), Yu Kuo-hwa (俞國華), and Vincent Siew (蕭萬長), all of whom are renowned for their distinguished expertise in finance and economics.
Likewise, reducing the wealth gap in Taiwan is another task for the government as the global economy continues to falter. Therefore, President Ma chose Interior Minister Jiang Yi-huah (江宜樺) as Sean Chen's deputy. During his term as Interior Minister, Jiang pushed for the passage of five bills related to "housing justice" and expanded assistance to mid- and low-income families. Jiang is expected to continue to promote social justice in the future.
In addition, the appointees of new secretaries-general of the Presidential Palace, the Executive Yuan, and the Kuomintang (KMT) party were recently announced. After KMT secretary-general Liao Liou-yi resigned from office, his position was filled by Lin Join-sane (林中森), currently the secretary-general of the Executive Yuan. KMT party whip Lin Yi-shih (林益世), who failed to win re-election earlier this month, has been designated as the new secretary-general of the Executive Yuan. Legislative Speaker Tseng Yung-chuan (曾永權) will take office as the new secretary-general of the Presidential Palace.
Lo Chih-chiang (羅智強), Ma's deputy campaign manager, will succeed Kao Lang as deputy secretary-general of the Presidential Palace. Kao Lang will reportedly return to his teaching career.
Please see the table below for the new cabinet appointments made to date.
New Appointees
Current Incumbents
Sean Chen (陳冲)
Wu Deng-yih (吳敦義)
Vice Premier
Jiang Yi-huah (江宜樺)
Secretary-General of the Executive Yuan
Lin Yi-shih (林益世)
Lin Join-sane (林中森)
Interior Minister
Lee Hong-yuan (李鴻源)
Chairperson of the Council for Economic Planning and Development
Yiin Chii-ming (尹啟銘)
Christina Y. Liu (劉憶如)
Finance Minister
Lee Sush-der (李述德)
Minister of State Without Portfolio
Yang Chiu-hsing (楊秋興)
Former Kaohsiung County Executive
Attachment : none


text:
Brigham Young University's Museum of Art (MOA) offers a variety of creative and exciting educational programs for students and educators in grades K–12. The MOA's K–12 programs are designed to provide students and their teachers with an opportunity to experience art in a friendly environment.
Elementary School Programs
The Museum invites teachers and students from the K-6 community to experience Shaping Our America, featuring a guided tour of the museum's current exhibition of American Art followed by a hands-on art activity free of charge. MORE
School Tours & Class Visits
Scheduled tours of current exhibitions are available for K-12 classes visiting the MOA. MORE
Classroom Resources
The MOA produces Education Packets in conjunction with major exhibitions that give teachers ideas on how to teach key themes and concepts in the classroom. MORE
Evening for Educators
Evening for Educators is an opportunity for school educators to participate in hands-on workshops and exhibition tours in order to assist them with incorporating the MOA's exhibitions and programs into the classroom. MORE


text:
The Globe and Mail reports:
The rebel takeover of the key Congolese city of Goma has sparked fears for the future of one of Africa's biggest and most war-torn countries.
In the short term, the victory by the M23 rebels could trigger a wave of reprisal attacks on civilians in the city of a million people. Thousands of displaced people, in the chaos of the rebel advance, are fleeing out of Goma or into the city from rural camps …
United Nations peacekeepers, who had deployed helicopters to strafe the rebels with cannons and rockets on Sunday in a futile attempt to slow their advance, appeared to give up and just stood by watching as the rebels took the city. French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said it was "absurd" that the 17,000-member UN force was unable to stop a few hundred rebels.
Absurd? Absurd?
For some, the correct word is "expected". Not so for Steven Pinker, who's argued that the decline in international warfare is due to the rise of international institutions but most of all, due to the "humanitarian revolution". He figures the nastiness has been bred out of us by now.
Another contributor was the expansion of international peacekeeping forces, which really do keep the peace—not always, but far more often than when adversaries are left to fight to the bitter end.
Finally, the postwar era has seen a cascade of "rights revolutions"—a growing revulsion against aggression on smaller scales. In the developed world, the civil rights movement obliterated lynchings and lethal pogroms, and the women's-rights movement has helped to shrink the incidence of rape and the beating and killing of wives and girlfriends.
In recent decades, the movement for children's rights has significantly reduced rates of spanking, bullying, paddling in schools, and physical and sexual abuse. And the campaign for gay rights has forced governments in the developed world to repeal laws criminalizing homosexuality and has had some success in reducing hate crimes against gay people.
Why has violence declined so dramatically for so long? Is it because violence has literally been bred out of us, leaving us more peaceful by nature?
People who believe that humanity has become relatively more peaceful because of our better angels may still be around to witness what happens if the current administration does away with the long Pax Americana.
Without America, peace may prove more fragile than than we think.
The Three Conjectures at Amazon Kindle for $1.99
Storming the Castle at Amazon Kindle for $3.99
No Way In at Amazon Kindle $8.95, print $9.99
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42 Comments, 42 Threads
1. dagger
I lived in the Netherlands after the Sbrenica massacre. There was a palpable sense that something should have been done, but no concurrence about what that meant. Should they have fired on the Serbs? Should they have engaged in nonviolent sit-ins? The angst came from realizing that our rules of engagement don't change the realities of evil. It has cost thousands of lives and will continue to. The disturbing fact is that liberal democracies assume that everyone plays by our rules (or will once exposed to them). This is the same assumption that causes the impulse to open borders; the sweet feel of liberty on the feet will bring about change. But cultural imprints don't extinguish so easily, and we are left with wars inside our cities and outside our borders that we don't understand the ROEs. Without a decision to only intervene in conflicts that at least one party is more or less playing by our rules, we have impotent and very expensive peacekeeping that simply doesn't…
November 20, 2012 - 10:56 pm Link to this Comment -
2. Josh
Pinker has no qualifications in the area, and even the books he writes on what is purported to be his specialty are tendentious. Any fool can take some general Darwinian and game theory rules and speculate about history, wave your hands and offer grand generalizations. In fact, that's about par for the course on your average Internet blog, been known to do it meself now and again, cough cough. In general I'll take Larry Niven's scifi extrapolations on the topic over anything Pinker spouts.
Niven speculated thirty++ years ago on the aggression being bred and socialized out of us (and various alien species handy for the story). So have lots of scifi authors, now that you mention it. Probably half a dozen or more (arguably all?) Star Trek TOS episodes on the subject. Seems to have been a major trope in the 1950s and 1960s. Guess what folks, it never seems to end well. All those peace-seeking star fleet operations, yet all those phasers and photon torpedoes get used incessantly. Peace, little green brothers. Oops.
Wonder if Pinker realizes he's just plagiarizing what were no doubt influences from his early life he doesn't even consciously recall. There's some armchair speculation for ya from yours truly.
November 20, 2012 - 11:21 pm Link to this Comment -
3. cas
Mr. Pinker is the Harvard College Professor of Psychology at Harvard University. Sorry to pick on your alma mater, Wretchard, but what more would you expect from someone planted so firmly in the Ivory Tower? I wonder how quickly he would flee from Cambridge, if say, Québécois "Militants" (isn't that the correct term now used for thugs and terrorists?) attacked his adopted city?
Mankind's "nature" will never change; religion and the morals that they preach are the only means that have been found to attempt to "civilize" that nature. Until progressives figure that out, they will continue to destroy western civilization. I wonder what they will they do, when any of these militants that they've applauded (from a distance, of course) show them exactly how little violence has been removed from mankind's nature? I mean besides get killed rather quickly…November 21, 2012 - 12:06 am Link to this Comment -
4. Dave
Thank your for that closing comment Wretchard. The world has a choice:
Either Pax Americana or State of Nature.
Final Answer.
November 21, 2012 - 12:15 am Link to this Comment -
Ah yes, the appropriately named UN. As in the "un"-necessary, "un"-aware, "un"-organized…you get the picture.
This may be slightly O/T, but this kind of reminds me of all the recent UN hand-wringing about how they didn't "do enough" in Sri Lanka a few years ago as the gov't was routing the last of the Tamil Tigers. Yes, it's tragic when civilians die, but what was Sri Lanka's alternative, let the war drag on for another few decades? How many civilians would die in that period?
We've really lost our appreciation for short, brutal, decisive total wars. Instead we've opted for death by a thousand paper cuts with our misguided COIN strategies and whatever passes for nation building these days. But alas, war is big business these days; too many people have an interest in seeing them drag on interminably.
November 21, 2012 - 12:30 am Link to this Comment -
There are many things that the West should feel guilty about, but when the balance sheet of Assets and Libilities is drawn up, not remotely as much as other civilisations.
Certainly one of the things that it should NOT feel guilty about is the nightly TV horror show of genocidal violence.
What we are witnessing is the industrialisation of arms production. Why, even your average non-productive Arab can afford an AK-47, so why shouldn't your average bow-and-arrow African have equality? It's only fair.
So a Lax Pax is not America's fault. To think so is a type of oikaphobia. There was only so much that America could do when the relative power equations were skewed. Not anymore.
And the victims can't say that we haven't shown them the evils of their ways. The Great War showed them how to do mechanised slaughter. They're not sufficiently industrialised yet, but some day, they'll get equality. Maybe when Iran gets the bomb.
In the age of mass-produced RPGs (AK-47s are so two paragraphs ago), mass destruction has to be experienced before an army will willing signify sel-destruction by letting women into the army.
So my money is on mass annihilation in the third world. Pax Americana overcome by Henry Ford.
The trick for us is to pretend concern. Faux resolutions in the UN, feigned shock at 'unexpected' outcomes, forbearance with French bluster – that'll do it. In three words, Lead From Behind.
Let the victors write the history.
November 21, 2012 - 2:44 am Link to this Comment -
7. Blast From the Past
It is unusual to study the consequences of a society adopting universal pacifism because those who do so are generally not around to testify. The Khmer adopted Theravada Buddhism just around the same time the more aggressive Thai and Viet started pushing South. The Khmer imploded and almost disappeared. In fact much of their crowning achievement at the Angkor complex was so thoroughly swallowed by the jungle they forgot about it until the Europeans discovered it.
Capitalism and thrift, along with the Classic virtues of justice prudence temperance and courage, work and enable the Christian Spiritual virtues of faith hope and charity. Socialism promotes a rejection of the first and a rebellion against the second in the expectation that the last will magically flourish.
November 21, 2012 - 3:15 am Link to this Comment -
The decline of major wars is due to a i r p o w e r and n u k e s. That's all. It gets too deadly too fast if you do it with too much enthusiasm. That's why the current most popular application of airpower employs aircraft that would have been a joke in WWII. Only 2 small bombs? 90 kt cruise speed? No thanks, we'll keep out 10000 B-17′s.
And the failure to properly address wars such as in the Congo, the former Yugoslavia, Ruawanda, et al, is due to a recognition that winning such a war also implies a necessity for Regime Chance. And Regime Change looks an awful lot like colonialism without the profit. The anti-colonialists have succeeded in making anything that looks like a big guy taking over a small guy the Ultimate Evil, and besides, without the profit, who wants to do it anyway.
November 21, 2012 - 4:30 am Link to this Comment -
10. Steeple
The inevitable outcome of our hosts's concerns about our current state of historical amnesia:
November 21, 2012 - 4:49 am Link to this Comment -
11. CharlesWhite
Man and Man's law, this is what we are witnessing, Gods law is to brutal for the 21st Century Civilized world, mans law is as dust in the wind, Man knew exactly where he stood in God's Law and Gods law is far more humane and compassionate than mans will ever be.
November 21, 2012 - 5:20 am Link to this Comment -
12. Annoy Mouse
The very existence of the UN is more likely to encourage brutal preemptive intertribal warfare. I can't think of a single instance where provocateurs were made to give back gains achieved in a quick and paralyzing pogrom. The invading army only needs to attack quickly and take their objectives. They do not even need to have the ability to sustain their efforts to quell counter-violence because it is a certainty the UN will step in to negotiate a solution that recognizes the invaders claims. Little or no effort at that point is necessary to hold ground. The victims too would be expected to negotiate and to concede to concessions to conquering militia.
The more spontaneous and irrationally motivated the attack the better its chances of success.
And this; "In recent decades, the movement for children's rights has significantly reduced rates of spanking, bullying, paddling in schools, and physical and sexual abuse."
Really? How does the author conflate corporal punishment and sexual abuse. Geesh. Our so called learning institutions have become forts where rent seeking union workers man the towers while wilding "kids" run the yard and the psychological and physical abuse, in a world of children's rights, are met out at the hands of the kiddies themselves and the violence is more likely associated with another kind of union ruled by armed street thugs often illegal aliens. And on that note, illegal aliens are responsible for much or most of the sexual abuse here in Mexifornia.
The peace comes as part of the rules of the golden straight jacket, take away jobs, future wellbeing, saddle a generation with debt that sentences them to de facto indentured labor for life, steal their last dreams for themselves and see how long this tenuous civil society lasts. The destructive peaceniks will be shocked by the unforeseen turn of events that they themselves have set loose.
November 21, 2012 - 5:32 am Link to this Comment -
13. trangbang68
So this is what the crazy kids like Lena Dunham have loosed, the Ride of the Valkyries? They might be so traumatized in a year or two they won't be able to enjoy endless , carefree sex while staring dreamy eyed at Dear Leader up on the television screen. "Obama's gonna change the world…" indeed.
November 21, 2012 - 5:48 am Link to this Comment -
14. always right
That Franch dude Laurent Fabius, while on a visit to Tel Aviv also on Sunday told press: "War is not an option. It's never the solution." (EU countries urge Israel not to invade Gaza)
So of course UN Force!??! (Peacekeepers) don't want to 'wage war', it is not THE solution. Without the Pax Americana to wage war/warmongering, we will see what 'No War' means.
November 21, 2012 - 6:24 am Link to this Comment -
15. Barry Meislin
…more peaceful…
Wonder what Prof. Pinker thinks about the phenomenal amount of lying that has swept the world?
The violent language? The genocidal threats? The glee at recalling genocides?
Recreational, no doubt! An escape valve akin to pornography? (Or blogging?)….
And I wonder whether he might make any connection between the phenomenal amount of lying in one area (oh, say Israel-Palestine) and the lying in other realms? (E.g., the economy, green energy, American politics, the political stability of Europe or China or Russia, the "Arab spring", etc.)
Maybe there's no connection. Maybe it's all a coincidence….
Maybe it's actually further proof that we are living in a less violent age!
File under: The best of all possible worlds….
November 21, 2012 - 6:37 am Link to this Comment -
16. maineman
You might want to ask Pinker how parents' rights are doing at the hands of the U.N. agenda. Think they want you to be able to put your foot down when your 13 year-old daughter secretly goes to Eugenics R Us and starts having sex with her 18 year-old boyfriend?
Wait til you see what Hildabeast and Ohomo have cooked up for binding U.N. treaties on so-called child rights.
November 21, 2012 - 6:45 am Link to this Comment -
17. Ignominious
The U.N. is a colossal joke, mostly funded by the U.S.
November 21, 2012 - 7:20 am Link to this Comment -
18. Josh
rwe @ 9: The decline of major wars is due to a i r p o w e r and n u k e s.
Also automatic weapons, and PGM. Frankly it's the PGM that have done it. And that only one side (us) has them, and the delivery platforms, and control of the battlespace. No sane opponent will challenge it. Not after Israel as far back as 1967 and 1974 defeated the set of Soviet weapons, the mujihadeen with US-stingers defeated the Soviets, the Highway To Hell in Kuwait in 1991, and the two Gulf Wars where there was virtually no effective military resistance to major US forces.
The problem is there are insane opponents.
Iran is bucking to try their hand. This will likely go down as the most massively stupid move in the history of mankind. OTOH, with Obambus in the catbird seat, Iran has an ally (if only in massive stupidity). The US and Soviets never came so close to nuclear war as Iran and Israel are today, and I don't mean tomorrow, tomorrow Iran and Israel will be much closer to nuclear war, and there seems almost no chance now to stop it.
The insane opponent bets the dominant opponent will not use their strength. It has demonstratively worked against the Soviets in Afghanistan, and against the US in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. The Soviets did not successfully use enough, arguable we've done somewhat better at using just enough in Iraq and Afghanistan. The problem, as E2 suggests above, is that maybe if we used MORE, we would have had *decisive* wins much more quickly and REDUCED CASUALTIES ON BOTH SIDES. And if not, hey, it would still reduce casualties on OUR SIDE. That's the game I want to play. The argument is that it would only strengthen the resistance against us and not after all resolve the issue or reduce casualties, and also that it is in some way unethical, unfair, asymmetric on the wrong side. Well, these are academic arguments. The sad truth is we've *tried* it that way now, with minimal forces. It has not worked well. With a rational, ethical opponent you'd expect better results than we have got. We need to process the actual data and learn from it.
LOOK at the case in this post, 17,000 UN troops can't stop a few hundred aggressors – because they won't shoot. As we saw in Kosovo.
Niven made a case like that, writ large, the Macguffin in his "World Out Of Time" story/novel. Because the robot believed in this kind of theory, it thought it was protecting its entire world from falling by sending the protagonist away – three billion years into the future, as it turns out, because he as just one average man might be enough to topple The State. When informed the robot had taken him seriously, the protagonist laughed, that the stupid robot had believed just a silly theory. And yet, as we see from today's news, it remains a reasonable theory all the same, and a reductio ad absurdum argument against weakness, moral, ethical, military.
Oh, I have ranted on on this one, haven't I.
Well yes I have, but I should make the point explicit, one has to deal with "insane" opponents, and they are not after all insane if their desperate, weak strategy succeeds. The strong opponent CAN LOSE to the weak one, it happens on sports fields every weekend. The strong opponent must play its game, having strength alone, nor right and justice on your side, nor even excessive moral virtue, IS NOT ENOUGH.
The End?
November 21, 2012 - 7:38 am Link to this Comment -
Do not forget that very recently US Armed Forces exhibited the same impotence. This is not just a UN Peace Keeping problem. This is a leadership problem.
November 21, 2012 - 7:49 am Link to this Comment -
20. Alexis
always right:
One answer to Laurent Fabius is, "Don't worry. We won't wage war. We'll just call it something else."
[sarcasm alert]
It's always nice to know that the French government is still remorseful that France ever entered the American War of Independence. It's also nice to know how France is unhappy that the United States didn't completely stay out of World War I and World War II. Since "war is never the solution", it is nice to know that Allied guns did not solve the Nazi occupation of France during World War II; instead, the proper means to stopping the occupation should have been the stage sit-ins at Gestapo headquarters.
[sarcasm off]
This may explain the popularity of Barack Obama. President Obama doesn't wage war. He gives orders to kill people using drones. But since it isn't called "war" (never mind that it really is war rather than murder), European peace activists don't get upset. To them, war is wrong, but assassination is acceptable.
November 21, 2012 - 8:17 am Link to this Comment -
21. Anglo-Saxon
Josh @ 18
"The argument is that it would only strengthen the resistance against us and not after all resolve the issue or reduce casualties, and also that it is in some way unethical, unfair, asymmetric on the wrong side."Actually, the research evidence supports your theory to say nothing of Sun Tzu's. Delaying the punishment encourages resistance because the threat escalation is minimal and thus discounted. Bringing the punishment down, hard, on the first infraction (the snowball effect), discourages resistance. Teachers, parents and drill sergeants used to know this – when it was important to make it clear who was in charge. Subsequent resistance comes from those who are making statements, not testing the waters and can be dealt with in other ways.
In other words, the strong can win but the strength must include being indifferent to cries of protest and clouded argument about what "works".
November 21, 2012 - 8:23 am Link to this Comment -
22. erc rodson
Oderint sed metuant.
An inconvenient truth. / erc
November 21, 2012 - 8:45 am Link to this Comment -
23. Daniel
Every pundit and humanitarian, and actually everyone, bemoans war or at least accepts its terrible costs. Yet every society, from a small tribe to a large nation has, in the past, survived by fostering and practicing the potential to defend itself, and that is normally done by engaging in war. The males of every Indian tribe gloried in their war making prowess; if a tribe did not, sooner or later it was conquered and disappeared into another tribal society. The Roman Empire for centuries experienced almost constant warfare among competing Caesars or would be Caesars, and this allowed it to defend itself against outside invasions. It was only after such warfare disappeared (after the reforms of Julian which instituted local self government in all towns, thereby reducing the powers of most local military leaders) that Rome began to become vulnerable to Barbarian invasions. With internal peace, Rome began to rely on outsiders for its defense. Similarly, today, the pax Americana has diminished the powers of Europe to defend itself, and it shows all signs of becoming vulnerable to barbarian overthrow.
Every society without recent military experience became subject to control by a more powerful power, until the middle of the Twentieth Century.
So warfare is terrible, but without war for an extended period, one loses the knowledge of how to perform it, and becomes vulnerable to destruction. Now in war we want to fight without actually hurting any of our adversaries, or risking the lives of our warriors. It is hard to see how this can work.
Ending a war today by a truce which will undoubtedly lead to another war when the enemy rearms seems foolish, but it is a good way to justify maintaining the power to make war; which in an atmosphere of peace is hard to justify.
Tiny Israel, constantly under threat became a pioneer in the development of drones, and now of anti-missile defense, things that all of Europe, something like 100 times bigger, has lagged in.November 21, 2012 - 9:03 am Link to this Comment -
24. Warhorse
"War is not an option. It's never the solution."
Sure. Just ask any of the Tamil Tigers …
November 21, 2012 - 9:16 am Link to this Comment -
25. Gordon
"Rebels"? Rebelling against/in favor of what?
A poor choice of words says I.
November 21, 2012 - 9:33 am Link to this Comment -
26. dlsada
Slightly OT-Looks like another cease-fire declaration, but first a bus-load of the "nasty Jews" must be blown to bits by adherents of the religion of peace. As Ann Barnhardt says, "it actually is the religion of peace, so long as you submit completely."
I hope Netenyahu realizes that Lucy is still planting the football awaiting Charlie Brown's attempt. Forget the football-kick the sh*t out of Lucy this time.
November 21, 2012 - 10:27 am Link to this Comment -
27. Annoy Mouse
In the battle of the hegemons nuclear arms and MAD doctrine has stymied the battle of ascendency to a standstill, notably during the cold war. But this standstill will fail when China decides that they have enough people and land distributed throughout Asia and beyond to absorb any counter attack attempted by the world's remaining super power. It is also likely that with a mealy mouthed radical in possession of the weapons of state that the communists will be greatly encouraged.
While the dinosaurs wrestle the lesser mammals and reptilians will make their own war in the nooks and crannies of far flung outposts in Africa, Asia and lower Americas. And while raiding adjacent tribes they will be selected to do proxy warfare for the behemoths.
As long as the major powers attempt to promote a progressive morality on the world, favoring black homosexual Indians with one leg, a new balance of power must be struck to claim the top of the dung heap. We will have more of what we favor.
Politically Correct doctrine is inherently anti-evolutional in that it eschews the survival of the fittest for the ascendance of the greatest victim. A competition for which there is no shortage of participants. In this sense Palestinians are the second coming of the high cheekbone Cherokee wannabees and the Israelis are the US cavalry 150 years later in time. Marty McGuffin has arrived just in time to prevent a Wounded Knee and destroy the very DNA of existence in its stead.
November 21, 2012 - 10:32 am Link to this Comment -
28. Don Rodrigo
Shortly after WWI's armistice, American Congressmen proposed to outlaw war, principally among them Sen. William E. Borah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Borah), a fool and an asshat if ever there was one. Borah was the template for all the gullible elites that followed him. Years later, he's supposed to have said of Hitler's invasion of Poland, "if only I could have talked to the fellow, maybe this could have been avoided."
He and Sec. State Lansing (http://www.teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=1499) had a running debate about Borah's idiotic proposals.
Here's a good tutorial on post-war dellusions of 90 years ago:
http://edsitement.neh.gov/lesson-plan/postwar-disillusionment-and-quest-peace-1921-1929#sect-introductionNovember 21, 2012 - 10:38 am Link to this Comment -
At some point, the apes mutated and homo something-or-the-other was born. Do you suppose the apes took pride in what they had begotten? When homo something-or-the-other produces homo something-else, will anyone notice? Will even homo something-else notice?
It appears to me that modern liberals have appointed themselves as homo something-else and are attempting to retrofit homo something-or-other. Or maybe they're just herding them into the zoo.
Now that members of the human species no longer decimate their competition, we have more diversity with different cultures and morals. That some heathen thoughtlessly kill others, does not grant us the right to reciprocate less we become as evil as they, preaches the left.
Evolution, if true, has failed to impress us, its subjects, with the true import of its lessons.
November 21, 2012 - 11:33 am Link to this Comment -
30. jaybird
#29 MSO Homo sapiens unsapiens? Homo socialatus faciatus? Homo liberalus stupidus? In fact, we have been devolving for several thousand years, as individual capability traits are less reflected in the birthrate. Cattle don't need to be fast, or smart, only beefy or milkable.
One exception, perhaps, is Genghis Khan, who may have been personally responsible for 10-15% of the present population.
November 21, 2012 - 12:17 pm Link to this Comment -
31. Cowboy
When Mr. Pinker suggests that we've become the New Man with violence having been bred out of us, he's no doubt thinking of himself and those in his circles. These types no doubt espouse non-violence, perhaps even thinking the cruelty of the meat industry is too much to bear. The man is supposed to be a specialist on evolutionary psychology, a leader in the field. So it's disconcerting to see some statement that naive. Violence has been bred out of us? I can assure him that down on Mean Street, USA he'll find all the violence and dsyfunction he never thought possible from his ivory tower.
And in that tower what do we find but leftists? Leftists fool themselves if they think they stand athwart violence, or that violence has been bred out of them. The exact opposite is the case. Violence is bred into a leftist. Theirs is a peculiar ideology that is wholly based on class struggle. The progressive's utopia itself rests on the resolution of the tensions in the Hegellian dialect. This means not only getting on "the right side of history" as they anticipate it, but making damn well sure everybody else is forced along. By hook or crook, and, especially, by governmental coercion (ie., the exclusive permissible use of, what else?, violence).
Through time smart leftists have at times recognized their violent basis and embraced it. Robespierre at one time refused to harm a flea, perhaps like Mr. Pinker and Co. He took a stand against what else but capital punishment. But that was before he stumbled upon his idea of the Republic of Virtue, a thing to be achieved by means of the guillotine and a Reign of Terror. Likewise, Che Guevarra started out as a medical doctor, interested in saving lives not taking them. But once his sights settled on final communist dream, he was dreaming of the New Man as a Killing Machine, killing his way towards ultimate victory.
Maybe the Revolution wasn't supposed to be televised. But it was always supposed to be violent.
November 21, 2012 - 12:27 pm Link to this Comment -
32. Subotai Bahadur
#30 jaybird
In RE: nomenclature
For some reason, I am reminded of a tag we used back when I was dealing with various legally challenged types. We sometimes referred to them as Felonius Erraticus Erectus. Given their dismissive attitude towards the rule of law and the Constitution, it seems that your average Democrat and further Left could aptly share the designator.
Subotai Bahadur
November 21, 2012 - 1:22 pm Link to this Comment -
34. jaybird
#32 SB I considered using "Homo erectus" for a comment on Genghis Khan, but decided not to for a couple of reasons. First, this is a classy site. And, Genghis Kahn did his (horizontal) level best not to go extinct like H. erectus apparently did.
Conrad's "Heart of Darkness" is an apt metaphor for the evil-at-heart-UN, and the hopelessness of the innocent people of the Dark Continent who are dependent on the corrupt and "humanitarian" UN. Maybe the UN itself is the sympatric breeding ground for a new species of Homo pinkus corruptus?
Pinker publishes in Scientific American. I was a lifelong subscriber to Scientific American from early childhood. I had saved all the issues, until the Germans bought the publication a couple decades ago. It quickly became far-liberal political, with lots of stuff about global warming, and similar collectivist tripe. With regret, I dropped my subscription, and discarded my previously-treasured backissues. Collectivism destroys everything that was or becomes worthwhile.
November 21, 2012 - 2:56 pm Link to this Comment -
35. rickl
34. jaybird
I was a lifelong subscriber to Scientific American from early childhood. I had saved all the issues, until the Germans bought the publication a couple decades ago. It quickly became far-liberal political, with lots of stuff about global warming, and similar collectivist tripe. With regret, I dropped my subscription, and discarded my previously-treasured backissues.I knew they went leftist/green years ago, but I didn't know they had been bought out by Germans.
About 20 years ago, I acquired a large collection from the mid-50s through the mid-60s. The ads are fascinating. They were for engineering firms, machine shops, and electronic and chemical companies. Some were large corporations, but many more were small local businesses throughout the country that actually designed and built things. They proudly touted their wares, and brimmed with optimism that they were improving the human condition through science and technology.
Most of those companies are gone now. It was a different world then, and a different America.
November 21, 2012 - 5:25 pm Link to this Comment -
36. Marie Claude
"It's always nice to know that the French government is still remorseful that France ever entered the American War of Independence. It's also nice to know how France is unhappy that the United States didn't completely stay out of World War I and World War II. Since "war is never the solution", it is nice to know that Allied guns did not solve the Nazi occupation of France during World War II; instead, the proper means to stopping the occupation should have been the stage sit-ins at Gestapo headquarters."
Fabius is Minister of a socialist government, he doesn't represent all the French
but I have some news on how you treated the French once the Independance war was won:
"A turning-point in French-American relations took place in 1794 when John Jay, a Federalist, was sent to London to discuss pending issues between the United States and Britain. Jay's Treaty, signed in November 1794, was interpreted by French authorities, then pitted against Britain in a merciless war, as a sign of American surrender to British demands, and thus as treason : the United States was at the time the only French ally remaining. A French editor wrote, recalling French support during the War of Independence: "Si n'aviez-vous pas une dette sacrée à payer, n'aviez-vous pas l'honneur national à défendre ? Qui retenait vos forts, qui capturait vos vaisseaux? L'Angleterre. Qui voulut vous asservir? Qui vous suscita (sic) la guerre contre les Algériens et les Indiens? L'Angleterre. Qui vous défendit quand vous brisâtes vos chaînes? La France. Qui veut pour son intérêt que vous conserviez votre liberté? la France "
Confronted with the serious defeat at Yorktown and with world-wide conflicts with the French, England accepted to negotiate peace terms. Congress named peace commissioners to work in Europe 'under the supervision of the French': Franklin, Jay, Adams, and Laurens.On 30 November 1782, without informing the French, the American commissioners signed preliminary articles with the British negotiators. However, it stipulated that the provisions depended upon France making its own preliminary treaty with Britain. The Americans were aware that they violated their instructions and had not kept faith with the French ally.
Vergennes was not surprised. He had his reasons for terminating the war quickly, and accepted the American diplomatic acts with the chide:
"We have never based our policy towards the United States on their gratitude. This sentiment is infinitely rare among sovereigns, and unknown to republics."
yet, if the US had repaid what they owed to the King of France in time, no terror would have happened. Yes I know, there wasn't any reliable american bank then, but no american effort was seen for thanking the french for their help, in the contrary, as soon the Independance was won, they reverted to their former masters !
and I don't mention the french settlers that were forced to adopt the anglo-saxons language and rules, otherwise they were put in camps, where lots died from starvation and bad treatment, and deported back to France or Louisiana
November 21, 2012 - 6:45 pm Link to this Comment -
37. Marie Claude
"United Nations peacekeepers, who had deployed helicopters to strafe the rebels with cannons and rockets on Sunday in a futile attempt to slow their advance, appeared to give up and just stood by watching as the rebels took the city. French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said it was "absurd" that the 17,000-member UN force was unable to stop a few hundred rebels.
Absurd? Absurd?"
A Italian commenter on TE has the explanation of "absurd":
"Still, while not a fan of French foreign (and military) policy in Africa, I have to say that I was at the same time appalled and fascinated, being there, on how just 150 French special forces (supported by about 80 Swedish SSG and other EU logistics and diplomatic support) dealt with crazy jungle militias in DRC responsible for nearly 60,000 deaths; all in about 3 months, where 7,000 Ugandan soldiers (well armed, US-trained and generally not very kind) failed. Operation Artemis under the EU-lead Interim Emergency Multinational Force is just one of the many examples where we are taught how sheer numbers mean nothing, and quality and resolution matter a lot."
Also Ivory coast war, while the UN troops couldn't dislodge Gbagbo within 2 years, the french troops managed it in a couple of months.
Fabius can't ignore that
About his reflexion on the Palestino/Israeli conflict, especially when it's hot, he can't pronounce a bellicose opinion, that would ignite fights right away in the region, and may-be in France too, as the muslim community is rather siding the Palestinians, so while relying to a UN generality, he isn't taking part
November 21, 2012 - 7:53 pm Link to this Comment -
38. Richard Cranium
"In fact much of their crowning achievement at the Angkor complex was so thoroughly swallowed by the jungle they forgot about it until the Europeans discovered it."
Sorry, that's load of hogwash.
That complex is enormous and the moats are obviously man-made.
It's more along the lines of "Those white pinheads are interested in all the old sh*t that's in the jungle."
November 21, 2012 - 10:34 pm Link to this Comment -
39. Dave
Marie Claude: Please do not forget that the French, especially their fleet at Yorktown< was in support of the American War for Independence. Thus it was not surprising that the USA conducted the concluding treaty without consulting the court at Versailles.
As far as the USA not even trying to repay the monetary debt to France, well that caused a lot of trouble. The "French Spoilation Claims" were a lengthy and nasty piece of litigation. They resulted from the French seizing American merchant vessels in lieu of payment. The owners then sued the US government for damages and it was a real mess never fully resolved.
But can you elaborate on how our non-payment led to the terror. Me no understand the connections. Merci.
November 21, 2012 - 10:50 pm Link to this Comment -
40. Bruce
38. Richard:
Not sure what you mean about Angkor.
Angkor Thom was the last capital of the Khmer Empire and it contained, among other things, the Bayon, at its exact centre. Angkor Thom was an imperial centre and is not exactly tiny. The original city walls were approximately eight metres high and enclosed a square approximately 3Km on each side. The Khmer Empire fell in the 15th century. However, the jungle there is fairly vigorous and rapidly swallowed the place for centuries.
Yes, the locals knew it was there but the rest of the world didn't have a clue.
Angkor Wat is very much in the Hindu mould, with outer walls being covered in scenes from the Mahabharata and the Ramayana. I first went there in 1990, when the place was guarded by Khmer military types of various descriptions. The Khmer Rouge had previously camped there for quite a while and seemed to have kept themselves amused by knocking the heads off statues and defacing the breasts of the apsara dancers carved in bas-relief all over the walls. The view from the central tower of Angkor Wat itself is impressive. Had an interesting chat with a Polish archaeologist who was moving into new work on the Bayon. This large temple started out in Mahayana Buddhist times and picked up different influences in later Hindu and Theravadan Buddhist eras.
Interestingly, the current "leading" archaeological team is Japanese. Equally interestingly, if you look around the site, particularly in Angkor Wat itself, there is occasional graffiti from a large Japanese "package tour group" that went through in the early 1940′s.
An other odd thing about Angkor Wat, apart from its enormous size, (perimeter wall: 1024m x 802m), is that unlike virtually every other structure of its kind in the region, its main entrance faces West, not East.
The masonry in the Bayon is interesting in that much of it seems to lack the "interlocking" found in European and North Asian construction from well before the 12th century, when the Bayon was built. The jungle was literally pulling the place apart long before serious modern exploration began.
November 22, 2012 - 5:20 pm Link to this Comment -
41. Marie Claude
39. Dave
France (who already hadn't sane finances since John law had bankrupted France alredy under Louis XV regime) was dry because of the subsidies given to the American "revolutionnaires", which were clinging money, arms… then the king couldn't get "brioches" for its people
November 23, 2012 - 2:54 am Link to this Comment -
42. Mike
A short Steven Pinker quote is inevitably unfair to Pinker.
The guy comes up with a huge number of counterintuitive results (UN good, violence is declining because of the liberal agenda, etc). However, he argues his side well, with lots of good evidence and concedes points against himself where he should.
He's wrong, but fair and his books are worth reading. It's unhealthy for conservatives to only brush into the Paul Krugmans and Andrew Sullivans. You would incorrectly conclude that all liberals are willfully addled.
November 23, 2012 - 5:14 am Link to this Comment
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You are here: Main / Customer Services / Public Communications Division / honnews06 / City Gives State Amphibious Excavator |
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE July 13, 2006 Release M-81-06 The City has turned over to the state a piece of heavy equipment that played a vital role in clearing Salvinia molesta from The pontoon-mounted, 31-ton Caterpillar backhoe was originally acquired by the City in 2001 for $496,121 for use in a joint federal project. In 2003, the state asked the City to help rid "We actually do very little work on the water, so the equipment has been mostly idle," said Laverne Higa, director of the City Department of Facility Maintenance. City officials considered converting the excavator for land operation by removing the pontoons, but costs of the conversion were prohibitive. Meanwhile, the state asked for the excavator, saying it had some ideas for putting it to use. The City transferred the excavator to the state last month. Physically moving the excavator from the City's Halawa Corporation Yard to a state location in Governor Linda Lingle wrote a thank-you letter, saying, "Because this equipment is specifically for vegetation control in wetland areas, it will be put to good use by state and federal agencies tasked with wildlife habitat enhancement work. Allowing the State to own the excavator will streamline the process of sharing it between cooperating agencies and will have a positive impact on the management of endangered water bird species, flood control and law enforcement." Mayor The mayor in his 2006 state-of-the-City address indicated a willingness to provide the excavator and help the state maintain Kawai Nui's City Managing Director Discussion of Kawai Nui is on the agenda for tomorrow's meeting (July 14) of the Board of Land and Natural Resources. -30- Contact: Laverne Higa, Director of Facility Maintenance, 692-5054 Mark Matsunaga, 537-5767 |
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