text:
Why Wright is Wrong: A Liberal Pundit Blames America for Maj. Hasan's Jihad
At first liberal pundits had a series of explanations for why Major Nidal Malik Hasan went on a shooting spree at Fort Hood. He was simply a lone deranged mental case; a Muslim furious that Army buddies discriminated against him because he was a Muslim and also made derogatory comments to his face; a doctor who had secondary traumatic stress disorder, which he suffered from due to all those returning veterans who actually had it. Or, perhaps, like the perpetual disgruntled former postal employee, he just went bonkers. Anything was possible, except to blame his actions on the radical Islamist ideology he evidently practiced. As Charles Krauthammer said on Fox News, the Army wanted to blame it on a medical condition, in order "to avoid any implication that there was any connection between his Islamist beliefs…and his actions."
None of these explanations washed, and the more they were made, the sillier they sounded. The connections the public made — based on clear evidence — were far superior to those made by scores of apologists. Now, this past Sunday, one liberal pundit has taken to the op-ed pages of The New York Times to offer what is perhaps the most preposterous and disingenuous explanation offered. The analysis comes from Robert Wright, a Senior Fellow at the New America Foundation, and editor of The Progressive Realist, a foreign policy blog.
Wright's argument, believe it or not, is that yes—Major Hasan was an Islamic jihadist and terrorist — but his acts of terror were our fault! Wright reverts to the once popular "blame it on America" syndrome exposed years ago by the late Jeanne Kirkpatrick, during the waning days of the Cold War against the Soviet Union. Wright's argument goes this way: Conservatives support war in Iraq and Afghanistan; they and liberal hawks want to contain "the virus of Islamist radicalism."
In so doing, Wright claims, the killing of innocent Muslim civilians — accidental as they may be — inflame the Muslim populace. They see battlefield video footage and are pushed "over the edge" towards the ideology of bin Laden and company, and want revenge. Major Hasan drew close to a radical imam he knew years earlier and communicated with him by e-mail; by this point, he had become "radicalized by two American wars." Thus the Islamist terrorism he inflicted at Fort Hood was a result of our "war on terrorism."
155 Comments, 155 Threads
1. David Thomson
"Robert Wright, a Senior Fellow at the New America Foundation"
Robert Wright's peculiar views on Islamic violence reflect badly on the New America Foundation. This organization was put together sometime in 2001 by James Fallows and other so-called center-left leaders. It now reminds one of Robert Conquest's aphorisms, "Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing." The New American Foundation has become something of a joke. And yet, it may very well represent whatever political center still remains in the Democratic Party. In other words, the Democrats are now almost exclusively the home of those embracing far left of center political views. Any centrists, especially those committed to a strong national defense and a belief in American exceptionalism will now have to join the conservatives of the Republican Party. Do they want to take this drastic step? Of course not—but life sucks and then you die. They don't have a real choice. Their next convention will take place in a phone booth.
November 23, 2009 - 4:28 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
2. Dave
To assert that religion played no part in (fill in the blank) is absurd. Religious beliefs
are a determinant in ALL human behavior, good, bad and indifferent. And this seems especially true amongst those who profess no religious beliefs at all.The question is whether or not there is something unique to Islam that actively promotes unethical behavior. There may be.
In Christendom, the worst scandals revolved
around the purchasing of indulgences and remissions. A Catholic could behave terribly and still go to Heaven if he could meet the Pope's price. A Protestant could do much the same by adopting some variation of the concept. Pietism seems to have been the most common. Theology was even flakier but gee, the price was ever so much more affordable.As bad as all this was, it was survivable and
recovery seems rather complete.But how about a religion that says you CANNOT
go to Heaven UNLESS you are an unrepentant
sociopath with ASSURED salvation being reserved for psychopaths?Well, that seems to be the defining and even dominant feature among Arab Muslims and perhaps Persian Muslims too. And as mideastern Islam goes, Muslims elsewhere follow in varying degrees.
What the late Murray Rothbard described as
"post-millenial existential pietism" in the West seems to have a more virulent sibling
emanating from the Orient.All of which takes the R. Wright thesis well beyond the absurd. While it is true that Western Civilization in general and American culture in particular inflame the jihadists,
the source of the inflamation is in them, not in us.Wright points to a single fleck of gold and expects us to ignore the fact that it is located in the midst of a 55 gallon drum full of bovine excrement.
November 23, 2009 - 5:03 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
3. David Thomson
I need to add something else to my earlier comments. Center-left Democrats live a land of make believe. They are marginalized individuals who refuse to recognize their second-class status in a political party that views them mostly with bewilderment, if not outright hostility. Scoop Jackson has been dead and buried for over twenty-five years. Joe Lieberman is a registered Independent. There is no way in hell that the Democrats are going to nominate a presidential candidate who represents the hard line stance of a Harry Truman. Robert Wright speaks for them. He is the sort of thinker who be selected as one of their key advisors. There will unlikely be any significant improvement over Barack Obama. The future looks extremely bleak.
November 23, 2009 - 5:34 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
All of which takes the R. Wright thesis well beyond the absurd. While it is true that Western Civilization in general and American culture in particular inflame the jihadists,
the source of the inflamation is in them, not in us.November 24, 2009 - 12:34 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
5. genghis
Yup. Got it. And I'm certain that when we leveled Berlin, Dresden, Essen, Hamburg, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Yokahama, etc, etc, etc….we pisssed off those 'good' Germans and Japanese and created new enemies. Uh huh. Well, if you want to make an omelet………………..
November 24, 2009 - 4:01 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
6. Dave Surls
"Conservatives backed war in Iraq, and they're now backing an escalation of the war in Afghanistan."
Sounds good to me. We'll send our troops over to slaughter Baathists and terrorists…meanwhile Wright can crawl on his belly like the craven coward and cur dog that he is, all the while whining that it's all the fault of conservatives, in a futile attempt to appease the terrorists that would cut his worthless head off in a heartbeat.
The terrorists get martydom, we get to kill tens of thousands of Islamo-fanatics, and Wright can indulge his juvenile angst in perpetuity. Everyone's happy.
November 24, 2009 - 4:33 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
7. Pedrosito
Islam is a fanatical belief based on hate and grievence. Kinda like contemporary liberalism.
November 24, 2009 - 4:45 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
8. Pragmatist
Islam is as Islam does and apart from the Islamic Terrorist Traitor Major over 14000 other acts of TERRORISM have been committed in the name of this CULT just since 9/11 with countless thousands of deaths and injuries the result.
There is no radical Islam , there is no Fundamental Islam there is no Terrorist Islam there is just Islam and the MISUNDERSTANDERS of Islam are the so called Peaceful Muslims who nevertheless give their support by nurturing, protecting and covering up for the more ACTIVE Brothers and Sisters amongst them.November 24, 2009 - 4:50 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
9. Pedrosito
Islam is a belief based on hate and grievence,kinda like liberalism.
November 24, 2009 - 4:50 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
10. Perry
You refer to people like Wright (related to Jeremiah?) as liberals. They are NOT liberals.
They are America blaming/hating LEFTISTS. Please clarify.
November 24, 2009 - 4:57 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
11. Smart Housewife
"Nothing New Under The Sun"-Solomon
Someone is always being
radicalized somewhere.
It happens most of the time when someone is trampled on without mercy by someone
else whose wish it is to rob another
of their God-given right to freedom.
The audacity is-that the perpetrator usually lies right through their
faked smile.Right now, Harry Reid and his Leftocrats, willing or un, are "radicalizing" lots of good peace-loving ordinary folks who play checkers, bake sweet-potato fluff, feed chickens, and call Bingo scores…
These "radicalized" Grandma and Grandpa's are suddenly concerned with every move that goes on in the White House. They want to know what their "Founding Daddies" wrote in that short important document called the "Constitution…" It just may help save their backyards. This makes me wonder how Martin Luther got so "eddicated" before he nailed his "Reformation Thesis" to the Church door…
We're still growing "Founding Father's" today. They live tall among our "Amber Waves of Grain." They can and will save this land from those who would cut us down to stubble–
We still have the grit and will to overthrow this usurping elitist government who does not hear us or concern itself with US.
We will heal ourselves.
The Reid/Dodd/Pelosi monstrosity Health Scare Bill–once defeated…
could be the BOON to return
America to HERSELF! She will know a period of lasting peace–Our Brave men will come home from these two terrible wars!
We can create for ourselves a
Tax Reformation–
An Entrepreneurial Renaissance–
Finally, we will feel safe again…
We will feel like we are
"American…" againNovember 24, 2009 - 5:03 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
12. TomF
Me thinks that Mr. Wright would like to become a citizen of Iran or Afghanistan, in order to separate himself from such a "horrible" nation in which he now lives. I greatly encourage him to do so in his soul search.
November 24, 2009 - 5:04 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
13. Alex Bensky
I don't recall that anyone worried about the fact that Germans were largely Protestant and Catholic yet American Protestants and Catholics were being sent over to fight them. For that matter, during the Civil War I don't think Union forces who were Protestant gave much thought to being sent to fight fellow Protestants.
Wright has thus made a point, but not the one he thinks he has, namely that Islam (according to him, at least) overarches everything else, that a Muslim's first loyalty is to other Muslims and not to his countrymen or anything else.
If this were so it would be a good argument for barring Muslims from our armed forces. I don't think it's a good argument, but that's the import of what he has written.
November 24, 2009 - 5:33 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
14. Stephen
According to Wright's (wrong) reasoning, the more barbaric our enemies the greater our obligation to refrain from using force. It makes them soooo angry. Wright is indeed a typical lefty utopian. Can't we all just get along? Aaargh!
November 24, 2009 - 5:34 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
15. TennesseeVolunteer
Ron, the danger you describe is real. However, America is populated by Patriots throughout the land who carry guns. In Mumbai, the unarmed Indian policemen ran away from the terrorists. In America, armed police and citizens will run towards the perpetrators.
I am not a gun owner or carrier but many of my friends are and they do not intend to go lightly if their country is attacked by terrorists. What our administration will not currently protect us from, this country of Patriots will.
The re-arming of America is alive and well and terrorists, or those who see America as a victim, do it at their own risk.November 24, 2009 - 5:43 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
16. tanstaafl
Wright's argument goes this way: Conservatives support war in Iraq and Afghanistan; they and liberal hawks want to contain "the virus of Islamist radicalism."
I guess Wright didn't get the memo where Hasan wrote his buddy, the Yemani imam, as to how he couldn't wait to join him in Paradise.
In so doing, Wright claims, the killing of innocent Muslim civilians — accidental as they may be — inflame the Muslim populace.
More Muslims have been killed by jihadists (intentionally, not accidentally) than any other people.
Al Zarqawi in Iraq staunchly advocated the slaughter of any "inauthentic" Muslims, Shi'ites.
Yesterday, in the Philippines, Muslim extremists (who claim Mindanao as Islamic turf) willfully slaughtered some 45 human beings.
From what you've quoted of Wright (I didn't read his "piece"), he sounds like one of those Ivory Tower blatherers who dithers around inside their own mental aeries.
Barack Obama said, one week after September 11, that it is incumbent on the western world to address the poverty that drives people to do such things.
Color me sick of self-righteous élites and their pontifications.
November 24, 2009 - 6:04 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
17. pelaut
GWB: "If you're not with us, you're against us."
I thought that was his best line. Then I talked with 'normal' Americans who bought into the 'cowboy' branding of GWB. EVERYONE, not some, but EVERYONE, left, right, up down, agreed it was a stupid thing to say.
I still think it was his best line.
I also think that he and his father, scions of New England oligarchs that have run our country since John Adams, were out of touch jerks that never ONCE threw the lies back in the teeth of the liars — GWB even muzzled Tony Snow, the stress of which arguably contributed to his death.
What does "Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind" become when you sow pussies? Lions at your door.
And some think the Country Club Republicans can help us?
November 24, 2009 - 6:12 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
18. Deadman
Nice to see that some people, like the good Wright, has finally worked out the truth: if you do anything at all to make someone else upset (unless, of course, he be an ordinary white male) then you are obliged to make reparations and to feel responsible for any resultant pain and suffering. If you say anything which might possibly suggest (or which I may infer as suggesting) that I am behaving poorly, that my religion is inferior, that belittles me (or any of my friends, relations, heroes or casual acquaintances) in any way, I shall feel obliged to wage a personal war on you and anyone or anything remotely connected to you. And all deaths will be your fault entirely.
That's my right. That's freedom.November 24, 2009 - 6:14 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
19. Deadman
Oops, that should be "some people, like the good Wright, have finally …"
Could you mend that, dear Moderator?
November 24, 2009 - 6:17 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
20. Dave Surls
"he sounds like one of those Ivory Tower blatherers who dithers around inside their own mental aeries."
Sounds more like something I'd scrape off the bottom of my shoe.
November 24, 2009 - 6:29 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
21. tanstaafl
Paradise is delayed for Abu Nidal Hasan, who lies paralyzed from the chest down in a hospital room that has just been designated a jail cell, with attendant restrictions.
I guess that's so some enterprising lawyer like Lynne Stewart or the revolting attorney defending KSM's nephew in Holder's NYC travesty can't freely carry Hasan's utterings & mutterings to any of his admirers on the outside.
Fort Hood Suspect Faces New Fetters
November 24, 2009 - 6:30 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
22. Deadman
So, I may not use irony to make a point, I see.
November 24, 2009 - 6:35 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
23. Deadman
aah, my mistake, a thousand apologies, Moderator.
November 24, 2009 - 6:38 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
24. Ben
It seems to me that mr wright is saying that over the last few thousand years muslims have inter married to the point they are all nutty as a loon, it is not their religion, it is all the inbreading that caused the sickness but, again it appears to be in the genes of islamic muslims. maybe some other loony tune can come up with a valid reason why a whole society, who seems to be so depressed, so hatefilled, so very unhappy would rather kill them selves than try to connect with the rest of of the worlds society
November 24, 2009 - 6:43 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
25. Banned by Huffpo
So, according to Wright (any relation to the "Rev" Jeremiah?), when Islamoterrorits detonate a nuclear device in New York harbor, it's going to be our fault, right?
Thanks for clearing that up, I understand now.
November 24, 2009 - 6:53 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
26. Parabellum
"Islam, he argues, "isn't an intrinsically belligerent religion,""
There are 164 violent verses in the koran.
http://www.yoel.info/koranwarpassages.htmBookmark that page. It comes in handy when dealing with morons.
November 24, 2009 - 6:53 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
In Christendom, the worst scandals revolved
around the purchasing of indulgences and remissions. A Catholic could behave terribly and still go to Heaven if he could meet the Pope's price. A Protestant could do much the same by adopting some variation of the concept.Nice except that it is Lutheran propaganda. Catholic doctrine never told that a mere Pope could take away from God's hands the decision about a sinner's fate. What it told was that some actions would be considered acts of atonement (confession, prayers, going to pilgrimage or crusade, fasting) and repentance. At one point a pope allowed to but the penance ie instead of fasting for three years you paid for your sins.
November 24, 2009 - 7:06 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
In so doing, Wright claims, the killing of innocent Muslim civilians — accidental as they may be — inflame the Muslim populace.
Oh yes, the Muslim populace. That Muslim populace who looked the other way when Saddam was gassing Muslims, who looked the other way when the Taliban were massacring the Hazara, who looked the other way when the Algerian jihadists rapted girlas raped them nad killed them once they were tired from them or they became pregnant, who looks the other way when jihadists set bomb in a market or in front of a school, not tp mention how this Muslim populace cheered on 9/11, cheered on teh IOnddonesis bombings and how it would have cheered had the Palestininas succeeded when a few years ago they tried to bomb a maternity.
Can anyone tell me why we should not offend the Muslim populace?
November 24, 2009 - 7:23 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
29. misanthropicus
Wiggle, wriggle – liberals are good when it comes to contortions -
Before this, it was that mister Hasan had a problem at getting laid –
Gretchen, did you hear that? Oh, my god, we need to create conditions for these people to get laid!
What kind of society we are when we acquiesce to leaving forlorn guys watch late nite cutlery shows?
This is inhuman!November 24, 2009 - 7:31 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
Robert Wright, a "Senior Fellow" at the "new America Foundation"
How long, I wonder, before the Second American war of Independence hots up and we begin to defend ourselves against such treasonous morons as Herr Wright, as the lock-stepping Goebbelsesque propagandist-pamphleteer "press," against the ghastly gang that slimes after the pretender to what these days passes as a "presidency" — and against the rest of the vast criminal enterprises that call themselves the "Democratic" party? All of whom are "collective-istly" "progressing" our beloved fraternal republic onto history's trash heap and our nation into slavery?
November 24, 2009 - 7:31 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
31. Thomas_L......
When you condense the data, it seems for whatever reason, Hasan was on or had joined the other side in a war that his country is waging. That, I'll agree with. There's a word for those who do that, whatever their reasoning. Traitor.
November 24, 2009 - 7:32 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
32. Libertyship46
No wonder nobody is reading the New York Times anymore. With junk like that on their pages,I'm stunned they even have any readers left. This Muslim hatred for the West goes back centuries and it is not going away any time soon. Tell me, Mr. Wright, what was Islam's excuse for attacking American merchant ships in 1800, prompting the Jefferson administration to send warships off the coast of North Africa to fight the Muslim Barbary Pirates? America had only existed as a nation for a few years, yet the Muslims had no problems attacking our ships and killing (or worse, enslaving) our citizens. Well, I guess to someone as stupid as Mr. Wright, he would then go back to that old Muslim standby excuse, it was all the fault of the Crusades. That is what Muslims really hate, as if the sack of Constantinople by the Muslims in 1453 or the seige of Vienna never took place. What a bunch of whining apologists these people are for homicidal Muslims. Well, it's only fitting that this jerk spewed his filth in the New York Times, the same publication that ignored another anti-American Muslim apologist with the same last name, the "Reverand" Jeremiah Wright.
November 24, 2009 - 8:01 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
33. carla
Mr. Wright's opinions reflect a profound ignorance of the Islamic world, politically correct (sic) thinking, and adolescent naivete. Basically that translates in dumbitude. The NY Times is something else, however. The editors of the Gray Lady have consistently taken positions that threaten the safety and welfare of The United States. Some of their actions, i.e. disclosure of ongoing intelligence operations border on treason. Whatever the Times claimed to be in the dim past, it has devolved into an agenda driven political organ of the radical Left. No one should be under the illusion that its reportage is factual, objective or fair. Quite the contrary. The times is read by a very small fraction of the adult population, and speaks for a miniscule cadre of vociferous leftist activists. It is a blight.
November 24, 2009 - 8:31 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
34. moho
The connections the public made — based on clear evidence — were far superior to those made by scores of apologists.
LOL. Where is this clear evidence that the PUBLIC used in its sober analysis in the first 72 hours of the event? Laughable bs.
November 24, 2009 - 8:31 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
35. Now and Then
This is one of the great failings of conservatism . . . you can't (or refuse to) distinguish between "fault" and "cause." If a cop shoots a murder suspect, he is the cause of the suspect's death. It is his fault. It doesn't make the cop wrong for doing it, but it is his fault. It's not the suspect's fault for being shot, for being a suspect, yes, he takes responsibility, but you can't take that chicken and egg approach. That's what created the mess in the Middle East. "I kill you because you kill me."
The use of "fault" in this article attempts to make a moral judgment, to establish righteous victimhood at assuming any degree or type of responsibility. It's the immature world view that is at the root of ALL our problems.
November 24, 2009 - 8:41 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
36. biblio44
Ron Radosh: "…he wants to believe that it is the denigration of Islam by the right-wing that is responsible of leading some like Major Hasan to move towards acceptance of the radical beliefs and to adopt terrorism."
7. Pedrosito: "Islam is a fanatical belief based on hate and grievence."
8. Pragmatist: "Islam is as Islam does and apart from the Islamic Terrorist Traitor Major over 14000 other acts of TERRORISM have been committed in the name of this CULT…. There is no radical Islam, there is no Fundamental Islam there is no Terrorist Islam there is just Islam…."You're right, Ron. How silly it is to think that a Muslim scanning sites like PJM might be radicalized.
November 24, 2009 - 8:59 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
37. Pedrosito
biblio44: Islam is a cult,and an evil one at that.
November 24, 2009 - 9:08 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
38. Michael
Silly liberals. Just read the jihadists own statements. They hate America for its wealth and culture. They want to take over the world for Allah even if it would leave the world a smoking ruin.
Don't over think it boys. Take them at their word.
November 24, 2009 - 9:10 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
39. Rubicon
Yep! Right! Its 'all' our fault. We started it, we instigated it, we perpetrated it. We did it. We are the problem because all we did was inflame & anger.
Now, I suppose…. attacks prior to our military presence in middle eastern wars, were apparently fueled by our mere existence?
This logic is so flawed, its incomprehensible to anyone who has ever followed history. Not revisionist history, but actual historical fact.
My nation, America, has made mistakes. So too has every other nation on the planet. Lately, a liberal media has done a superb job of associating any problem in the world with America. So many have been sold on this line of thought, & it has been cheered on by the liberal elite who demand we all march lockstep to their socialist/Marxist ideology.
Its bull. They have created an ogre & want all, including Americans, to lay all blame for all of mankind's problems at the feet of the most successful nation this planet has ever seen. We made money, so we are bad. We made progress on civil rights (albeit, admittedly not enough), so we are bad. European nations have not kept up w/ America in GDP growth, so we are bad. Never mind their socialist taxation policies have impaired their ability to grow or even sustain the systems they have in place.
Forget it. The guy bought into a radical ideology & he acted on it. Its logic is, its our way or we will kill you.
Those 'soldiers" were at the time, innocent civilians. They were not actively engaged in war. They were in a medical facility. One can say just being in the military made them targets, & perhaps gain some traction.
However, in the end, those people were not engaging in any activity that was aggressive or abusive or war-like.
If a religion promotes or justifies hate & murder, it needs to be revised. From what I can tell, Catholic & Protestant faiths, along with many others on the planet, have all embraced peace, love, understanding, & brotherhood. I know of no active religion that calls for adherents to kill others &/or themselves, to further the cause of the faith, except Islam.November 24, 2009 - 9:20 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
40. David Thomson
"You're right, Ron. How silly it is to think that a Muslim scanning sites like PJM might be radicalized."
PJM has never published even one article that should offend any peace loving Muslim. Not a single one. The criticisms have always been leveled against the extremists. By all rights, the typical Islamic adherent should be motivated to eradicate the nihilists within their own ranks. There is no logical reason for them to get even mildly irritated at the opponents of these radicals.
November 24, 2009 - 9:39 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
41. biblio44
28. Pedrosito: "biblio44: Islam is a cult,and an evil one at that."
I stand corrected. For a brief moment, I was tempted to label PJM a hate site. How silly of me!
November 24, 2009 - 9:41 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
The problem with this type of direct linear causal explanation of 'I'm doing this only because You did that'…is that it falls apart immediately as a reason when faced wth facts.
1) It sets up people as reactive machines not as thinking agents.
2) Thus, if your explanation for Islamic violence is that they are reacting to Western violence…one has to ask: What are the Westerners reacting to?
3) If we reject such mechanical causality, we have to look for other explanations that explain the full, not partial evidence.
. Evidence includes the Qu'ran and hadiths insisting that Muslims kill non-believers.
. Evidence includes Muslims killing not only non-Muslims but also many, many Muslims.
. Evidence includes a history of Muslim violence against others beginning with Mohammed himself.
. Evidence includes the emergence of this phase of Islamist violence in the 19th c, against – not the West – but against the tribal political regimes in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran.
. Evidence includes that these political dictatorships reacted to the populist movements by setting up authoritarian theocracies, and..diverting internal political unrest to the West.I maintain that the cause of Islamic fascism is internal to Islam and the Islamic nations. They remain politically and economically mired in medieval tribalism, despite their urbanization, their movt to industrialism, their exponential increase in population.
These factors: urbanization, population increase, industrialism, ought to have moved their political system out of a two-class tribalism and enabled a middle class to gain political and economic control. Repression of this…has led directly to Islamic fascism.
People like Wright and other Islamic apologists know nothing about Islam, or, above all, nothing about the relation between population, economy, …and political structure.
November 24, 2009 - 9:43 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
43. PAthena
The bombings of the World Trade Center, the first and the second – 9/11- occured BEFORE the United States went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Robert Wright cannot even get dates straight.
November 24, 2009 - 9:47 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
44. Professor Guvinoff
Wright is not going to score any point with those who have learned what the Islamic books teach. The islamists do not distort Islam, they only practice its core injunctions.
If you don't know anything about Islam, no problem, Wright will help you overcome whatever obstacles stand in your path to denial! Islam has no trouble recruiting its useful idiots within the US, and Wright is only one of them,.
November 24, 2009 - 9:54 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
For a brief moment, I was tempted to label PJM a hate site. How silly of me!
Could you tell me what is wrong in hating nazism, communism, islam or any other ideology?
November 24, 2009 - 10:09 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
46. Dave Surls
"So, according to Wright (any relation to the "Rev" Jeremiah?), when Islamoterrorits detonate a nuclear device in New York harbor, it's going to be our fault, right?"
Well, duh.
When the Muzzies slaughter people in the Philippines…our fault.
When they carry out mass-murder in India…our fault.
When they blow people up in Russia…our fault.
When they carry out atttacks in Madrid or London…all our fault.
Everything is the fault of mean ol' American right wingers, and their wicked wars against peace-loving Muslims like Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden.
Heck the poor Muzzies never would have invaded Egypt, Spain, or Turkey a few centuries back, if it wasn't for mean ol' America and those bad, bad, bad conservatives.
November 24, 2009 - 10:13 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
47. biblio44
For a brief moment, I was tempted to label PJM a hate site. How silly of me!
Could you tell me what is wrong in hating nazism, communism, islam or any other ideology?A softball right over the plate … but I'm not gonna swing.
November 24, 2009 - 10:18 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
48. Malvolio
I wonder how far Wright is willing to go with his theory, that the grievance of the terrorist constitutes the cause of the terror?
Does abortion cause abortion-clinic bombings?
Did the ATF cause the Oklahoma City bombing?
Did the 14th Amendment cause the Klan?
(I suspect, of course, that Wright would not answer "yes" to any of my questions and offer some other reason that the true one: in the case of Fort Hood, he shares the grievance of the terrorist and he does not in the other case.)
November 24, 2009 - 10:19 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
49. Mr Lucky
26. Now and Then.
Modern Liberal Logic #2787.8436.2009.
"This is one of the great failings of conservatism . . . you can't (or refuse to) distinguish between 'fault' and 'cause…'"
"The use of 'fault' in this article attempts to make a moral judgment, to establish righteous victimhood at assuming any degree or type of responsibility. It's the immature world view that is at the root of ALL our problems."
"Great failings"?
First it's blind "conservatism".
Then it's -
"It's the immature world view that is at the root of ALL our problems."
All our problems? All? Yeah. Righteous!
Imagine an Inspired Master Mixed European – American Turkey with a Touch of Black jumping up off the plate at Thanksgiving dinner and giving you a lecture on "fault" and "cause", "righteous victimhood" and the relative value of Moral Relativism.
And the Turkey thinks it's Elvis too. Hunka hunka burnin'… Turkey!
Didn't (did?) make the cut, Now the Baked Hen?
November 24, 2009 - 10:19 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
50. Marie Claude
indulgences & remissions concerned only faults that could be "punished" in Purgatory, and not those that a kingdom or any state "civil" justice had to treat.
in this case, Hasan's fault is relevant to a kingdom justice, therefore a death penalty (for attacking the "state" security in its members), would be the justice condamnation, that no indulgence could or would trade.
November 24, 2009 - 10:33 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
51. biblio44
37. Dave Surls: "When the Muzzies slaughter people in the Philippines…our fault."
The "Muzzies"? Yep, hate speech is certainly "too loosely defined" to be detectable.
November 24, 2009 - 10:39 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
52. mingus
biblio 44:
Pretending that your enemy is not your enemy is not a very effective defense. Prefering to ignore the obvious, and clinging to the hope that you will be spared by our avowed enemies, is your preogative. Possibly by steadfastly refusing to pass judgement, recognize the growing threat, denounce the barbarism, and stand up to resist it, you have convinced yourself that you will escape harm. That indicates that you are a bit of a fool. If your primary concern is to avoid upsetting the more moderate members of the Islamic world, the mythological silent majority, buy your spouse a burqua, and learn how to bow. You are apparently willing to afford the wonderful world of Islam much more respect and diffidence than Islam affords the rest of humanity. And, obviously, you are not concerned that Muslims might regard that attitude with contempt. I guess, in your calculus, only Muslims feelings and sensibilities must be taken into account. Keep practicing the bowing and scraping. The White House staff has prepared an official how-to manual that may help you along.
November 24, 2009 - 10:57 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
53. myth buster
No different than calling the Viet Cong "Charlie" or Imperial Japanese "Japs." I'd never call someone a Jap today, but it made sense to do so during WWII. Deriding the enemy is good propaganda.
November 24, 2009 - 11:03 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
54. Dave Surls
Yeah, I call communists "commies" too.
Gotta problem with that?
Too bad…so sad.
November 24, 2009 - 11:03 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
55. Dave Surls
"Yep, hate speech is certainly "too loosely defined" to be detectable."
Just listen to your ideological bedmate, the illustrious moho…you'll detect it soon enough.
November 24, 2009 - 11:18 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
56. Pragmatist
Biblio44 is all over PJM like a rash saying EVERYTHING is HATE SPEECH seems that to this Moonbat the TRUTH is hate what a balloon he is. Must be the task he has been set by his PC MC Islamophile moonbat masters for today.
November 24, 2009 - 11:19 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
57. ScottR
Three points that others have alluded to but I want to make explicit.
1. If we only stop doing "X" then the Islamists will stop attacking us:
Sure, sure. Matthew d'Ancona said it best in the Sunday Telegrah some years back:
"We have heard so often, and will continue to hear, that the Iraq war and Blair's alliance with George W Bush were a recruiting sergeant for al Qaeda and its affiliates in this country. That may be true, but only in the sense that everything is a recruiting sergeant for this cause: the removal of the Taliban, the existence of the state of Israel, the Balfour Declaration of 1917, the end of the Muslim caliphate in 1924, the way women dress in the West. One of the conversations bugged in Operation Crevice that led to life sentences for five terrorists in April included a chilling discussion about bombing a London nightclub. "Now no one can even turn around and say 'Oh they were innocent'," said Jawad Akbar, "those slags dancing around."
Read what the Islamists have written regarding the West via translations of Arabic sources – and not the happy talk fed to gullible westerners – and it is clear Islamists hate the west for what it represents. We are all "slags in their eyes.
2. "Seeing the Fort Hood shooting as an act of Islamist terrorism is the first step toward seeing how misguided a hawkish approach to fighting terrorism has been." – ROBERT WRIGHT
You can dress up an appeasement argument all you want but that is all that it is – appeasement. And how many historical examples do we need to cover to point out that appeasement DOES NOT WORK? To the point:
- It was a weak response to the first WTC attack that led directly to the second
- It was strong response to the second WTC attack that has kept the US free of major terrorist attacks – until now3. Major Hassan was somehow enraged by the killing of innocent Muslims by US forces. Ahh,umm…not quite. Read what Raymond Ibrahim has written regarding Major Hassan and his actions as related to Islamic thought. Major Hassan was inflamed by the thought of actively lending a hand in fighting the Mujahedeen and not innocent civilians. He is a traitor to his country, the uniform and civilized norms.
November 24, 2009 - 11:20 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
58. Pragmatist
On second thoughts biblio44 seems above all else determined to defend Islam at all costs so perhaps he is a CULT brother of MOHO the Mohammedan.
November 24, 2009 - 11:23 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
59. ScottR
Biblio 44:
Dude, Mingus PAWNED you in comment #42.
November 24, 2009 - 11:24 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
60. carla
You seem to be overly concerned with words. I am concerned about planes crashing into buildings, beheadings, explosive belts, nerve gas, anthrax, subjugation and mutilation of women, lethal homophobia, and institutional intolerance that defines much of Islam. Your sensibilities are admirable. But of course, you will depend upon others to defend you. How convenient.
November 24, 2009 - 11:28 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
61. biblio44
48. carla: "biblio44 You seem to be overly concerned with words."
Well, Carla, I can't speak for Ron, who sits silently through all this hate speech, but Kikes like me are kinda sensitive to name-calling.
November 24, 2009 - 11:37 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
62. tanstaafl
"I maintain that the cause of Islamic fascism is internal to Islam and the Islamic nations."
There is also ample "evidence" in the weird writings and worldview of Sayyid Qutb in the mid 20th century, the Egyptian considered the founder of the extreme branch of Islam known as Salafism and Ayman al Zawahiri's guru.
A lot of the more extreme of these modern bad actors (not the least of which include Mohammed Atta and Nidal Hasan) have ideas that seem direct outgrowths of Qutb's extreme weirdness, including but not limited to, superficially prudish sexual fixations.
The first crime in the Hasan case is that the US army, despite years of talk & networking on Islamism, didn't pick up on Hasan & act sooner.
November 24, 2009 - 11:38 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
63. moho
Myth buster:I'd never call someone a Jap today, but it made sense to do so during WWII. Deriding the enemy is good propaganda.
Indeed, you bucktoothed hillbilly sheep-f^%king son of your brother. I agree, just think about that when you come back crying about how mean I am as I note the obvious low-grade genome that is your Appalachian patrimony. It never ceases to amuse me how those who are the most sensitive to jibes based on their inbred heritage, are the first ones to justify their own obtuse bigotry.
November 24, 2009 - 11:44 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
64. Pragmatist
# 49 biblio44: LOL Now Islam defender biblio44 is telling PORKIES (how appropriate) he is definitely not Jewish just using it as a blind so he can get in a derogatory name against Jews as his Mohammedan feelings are hurt and we all know where Mohammedans are concerned its ALWAYS the Jews fault.
November 24, 2009 - 11:44 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
65. Pragmatist
# 51 MOHO and just to show MOHO is all we say he is he pops up with a post that PROVES it and making biblio44 look the fool that he is.
November 24, 2009 - 11:47 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
66. tanstaafl
Nidal Malik Hasan was just following the script.
"…(jihadists') work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their
hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions."Spend some time reading that charming fellow, the Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Ruhollah Mosavi Khomeini.
Spend particular time on the obsession with bodily fluids and sex.
Anybody attempting to live their life according to all that would, naturally, develop a tendency to insanity.
November 24, 2009 - 12:05 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
67. Dave Surls
"Indeed, you bucktoothed hillbilly sheep…"
Please stop. My hillybilly sensibilities are hurt, and I might be forced to weep at any moment.
November 24, 2009 - 12:06 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
68. Dean
Mr Wright has discovered that in a war, your enemy tends to get mad at you and want to kill you. His obvious solution to this is pre-emtive surrender. That way you have defeated your enemy's desire to justify his anger. That may sound good to pacifist types but most of us don't buy it. Hasan's act was an act of war against the United States and as he is an American citizen, an act of treason.
November 24, 2009 - 12:13 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
69. Poor Citizen
I still have some trouble with this shooter as some kind of al queida operative/terrorist cell. Hasan may have been..though I will wait for the results of the final investigation. I think the guy was a lunatic that acted out on impulse though with a certain degree of planning. I just hope the Army is investigated as there are some reports that this fella did give some loose hints of his intentions earlier in his career. We shall see.
November 24, 2009 - 12:23 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
70. Dave Surls
The wit and wisdom of the Ayatollah…
"If the number of days of the woman's menstrual period is divided by three, a husband who has intercourse with her during the first two days must pay the equivalent of 18 nokhods [about 3 grams or 0.1 ounces] of gold to the poor; if he has it on the third or fourth days, the equivalent of 9 nokhods; and if he has it during the last two days, the equivalent of 4.5 nokhods."
"Sodomizing a menstruating woman does not require such payment."
Islam is the bomb! Do they have some cool rules, or what?
Sign me up!
November 24, 2009 - 12:33 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
Moho #51, you wrote: "It never ceases to amuse me how those who are the most sensitive to jibes based on their inbred heritage, are the first ones to justify their own obtuse bigotry."
But this statement describes YOU!
tanstaafl #50, Yes, I had Qutb in mind when I wrote that. See L. Wight's 'The Looming Tower' for an astute historical analysis of the extremist Islamic movement.
I'm also analyzing within the framework of the relation between population size, economic mode and political structure. These three values are inextricably linked.
Get one of them out of balance with the other two, and it's disastrous. That's exactly the problem in the Islamic states. Their economic mode, population size..require a civic political mode with power in a middle class. Instead, their political mode is tribal with no middle class. That's the basic cause of Islamic fascism.
November 24, 2009 - 12:36 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
72. blotto
moho/biblio: Okay if Islam had nothing to do with the murders of the 14 soldiers, and in general nothing to do with international terrorism that finds its home in the Middle East…..then you will feel similarly about Christianity having nothing to do with an sociopath in the past who blew up an abortion clinic; or that Catholicism had nothing to do with pedophile priest. You will state here that it is the individual in these instances and not Christianity.
You want America to accept unequivocally that terrorists who are Muslim and adherents to Islam, that Islam still has nothing to do with their homocidial suicides and murderous rampages on innocent civilians and unarmed soldiers? That followers of Islam have not threatened people into silence; that Islamists have not beheaded people, raped and stoned to death women and on and on…..
Okay, fine…
November 24, 2009 - 12:52 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
73. Dave Surls
From the Ayatollah's cookbook…
"The meat of horses, mules, or donkeys is not recommended. It is strictly forbidden if the animal was sodomized while alive by a man. In that case, the animal must be taken outside the city and sold."
"It is forbidden to consume the excrement of animals or their nasal secretions. But if such are mixed in minute proportions into other foods their consumption is not forbidden."
Yummy. Let's eat!
"If one commits an act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrements become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed as quickly as possible and burned, and the price of it paid to its owner by him who sodomized it."
Gotta remember that one. No drinking the milk of a camel you've just sodomized.
Islam…it's now, it's wow, it tells you the right way to have sex with a cow!!!
November 24, 2009 - 12:53 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
74. moho
ETAB. I actually rarely reference your malfunctioning genome and the culture its produced. Most of your whining has to do with my pointing out only the result of that lineage–your jaw-dropping stupidity. But please feel free to expound on your bigoted inventions about what's wrong with Islam, even as your own country is involved in two wars at once that will certainly within ten years have spelt the complete collapse of your nation. Keep doing that. Although you have a much better chance at finding out what's the inherent problem with your own culture, its far less likely to produce the kind of happiness that your petty bigoted, ignorant pseudo-social science concern with what bedevils Islam.
November 24, 2009 - 12:55 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
75. carla
biblio 44
Uh huh. A lot of sensitive guys like you ended up in the ovens. You should reflect on that. Eventually one must learn to defend oneself. Survival is the first imperatige of biology.
November 24, 2009 - 12:56 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
76. genghis
There you go again, always bringing up your family history. Tell us about your love-sheep.
November 24, 2009 - 1:00 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
77. genghis
re ETAB and 'his culture'. I can only surmise that you are not of our culture. I would hazzard a guess that your culture is agar. To be more specific, I bet that you can trafe your genome back to labratory raised faecal E.coli. Just a guess, mind you. Regards to Ollie and all of the little Okbars, bro.
November 24, 2009 - 1:03 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
78. moho
Genghis: absolutely lame. No riposte I've ever encountered has struck me as such a tragically obvious plea for mercy.
November 24, 2009 - 1:05 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
79. Silence Do Good
In the 7th century, an illiterate pedophile named mohammad was forced to flee his hometown of Mecca and went to Medina where he cut off the heads of 700 Jewish men and took the children and wives as slaves……and, so boys and girls, began the "Religion of Peace."
November 24, 2009 - 1:20 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
80. Dave Surls
"what's the inherent problem with your own culture"
Well, it's obvious, isn't it? Our spiritual leaders haven't instructed us in the proper customs in regard to sodomizing sheep.
Clearly, Islam is superior on this score, and is thus destined to rule the world…which I predict will happen right after the Muslims discover the use of toilet paper.
November 24, 2009 - 1:21 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
81. genghis
You really are a tiresome little pimple. Not worth a response. Good luck.
November 24, 2009 - 1:31 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
82. biblio44
61. carla: "biblio 44 Uh huh. A lot of sensitive guys like you ended up in the ovens."
Jeez, carla, haven't you read your friend Pragmatist (#52)? He blew my cover; I'm really a "Mohammedan."
And now, Ron, I'll leave you and your followers to continue your wallowing. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
November 24, 2009 - 1:34 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
83. misanthropicus
A revealing (and infuriating) preview of what will the defense tactics in the NY terros trial (Bill O'Reilly interviewing Scott Festenmaker, one of their attorney – "You are a weasel!"):
* The United States Foreign Affairs Policies will be put on trial -
* there weren't 3000 death, there were less than that -A must@:
http://video.foxnews.com/11896889/youre-a-weaselNovember 24, 2009 - 2:26 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
84. Petra Gajdosikova
Sounds just like the pathetic, politically correct attitude and appeasement policy that is so prevalent here in the UK. You can't say anything that could be viewed as criticism of Islam or Muslims, while radical preachers are given airtime spreading their terrorist-style messages. Outrageous.
November 24, 2009 - 2:41 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
I don't know if my last post went through; my hand slipped and pressed 'submit' when I was only halfway through.
My response to moho is to suggest that his strategy of trying to rebut my analysis of Islamist causality is 'vacant'. Insulting someone personally isn't an argument. I suggest that moho try again to reject my analysis but this time, use some facts and analysis.
And by the way, moho, from your comments, about 'your country' it sounds as if you are not an American citizen. Of what country are you a citizen? Guess what. I'm not American either, but I strongly support America..at least the non-Obama America.
Two wars? The US is not at war in Iraq. And please provide some factual evidence that being in one or two war sessions will bankrupt a country, any country.
My analysis of the causes of Islamic fascism is grounded in areas of research that you obviously know nothing about, moho, but population analysis as related to economic mode, and the necessary societal and political systems linked to them..is a valid area of research and analysis.
Could you tell us what YOU think is the cause of Islamic militancy, beginning with the battles of Mohammed, and into the medieval period and now, with the emergence of Islamic fascism in the 19th c?
You claim that my analysis is petty and bigoted. Please provide specific reference to support your claim. What is petty? What is bigoted? What is stupid? Please provide some facts and analysis.
After all, moho, anyone can spout insults. So, how about trying instead of your insults, how about trying to deal with facts and analysis!! What's the cause of Islamic violence in the past and now?
November 24, 2009 - 3:06 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
86. Tournefort
"A revealing (and infuriating) preview of what will the defense tactics in the NY terros trial (Bill O'Reilly interviewing Scott Festenmaker)"
I'll be curious to see what type of feedback Oreilly has received on that interview.
I was furious, sickened, disgusted.
Moving the trials to NYC, thus knowingly providing Al Qaida with a world stage to spout its terrorist agenda, strikes me as "aiding and abetting the enemy".
What ever happened to bringing charges for treason?
November 24, 2009 - 3:15 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
87. mr
I agree that this is not a hate site…. it is a site that attracts people who have the intellegence of a cow and most likely are high school drop outs whose anger at being a failure shows up in bashing other people and cultures….
November 24, 2009 - 3:40 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
88. carla
Jew, Muslim, whatever. You're still a turkey.
November 24, 2009 - 4:45 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
89. Mr Lucky
60. moho.
"ETAB. I actually rarely reference your malfunctioning genome and the culture it's produced." Etc…
PJMers, read #60 moho. You will know what you don't ever want to be. Nothing new, but further -
One of the mohos lives in or near Oakland CA., knows Van Jones personally, and has brothers in the U.S. military. In past comments one of the mohos played this up. I don't believe #60 moho is that moho.
Anyway –
Multiple mohos exsist. In one body or many. This is nothing new, but the disingenuous pathology represented in comment #60 suggests that there has been a break with reality at some point recently. Like that Twilight Zone episode, the nasty dummy has become the dominant personality. And regardless of which moho is addressing PJM, they all view the world as a reflection in a Bizarro World mirror. I'm not a believer, but I might say, God help this creation.
I did not honestly think I would see the day, but I think I will stop baiting the mohos. Some thing is wrong, very wrong. Fun is fun, but this is becoming cruel.
Life is for living.
November 24, 2009 - 4:47 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
90. attilathehunny
I really don't know anymore. I tried so hard to believe Islam was peaceful and had been hijacked by a few radicals ( note, it has been said that ONLY 1-2% of them want to hurt us, so let's see that is about a million plus people….) but I just don't think so anymore. If you have any doubts, please go to jihadwatch.org and thereligionofpeace.com. I had Muslim friends, have celebrated Ramadan, but after 9/11, where I lost many friends, that changed. I had a Lebanese friend, Muslim, in my house, who declared to another Lebanese (catholic) "aren't you so happy America finally got what it deserved? For all those years of being friends with Israel?" I asked her to leave my home and have not spoken since. This was on 9/11/01! My biggest fear is complacency-we must never forget. Ever.
November 24, 2009 - 4:47 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
One key question for Moho, which was in my original but didn't come up, is with reference to his 'genome causes cultural behavior'. That's incredible.
Moho is actually saying that cultural beliefs and behavior are caused by genes! Wow. That means that all the activities of the West and the US – their beliefs and behavior including all the scientific advances…are due to Western genes!
And he's saying that the militant behavior of the Islamists isn't due to their..ahh..anger at the Evil West/USA (who after all can't help it; it's in their genes)..but the militant behavior of the Islamists is due..to their Muslim genes!
Who'd ever have thought of this!! Moho did! So then why is moho so angry at America? He himself says our behavior is 'in our genome'. We can't help it. And Islamists can't help killing other people including Muslims..which they've been doing since the days of Mohammed; it's in their 'genome' as well
What an enlightening remark by Moho!
Now, Moho, how about answering my question about the causes of Islamic fascism. Oh, wait, you've already told us. It's genetic; they are, genetically, all murderous terrorists. That's what you've told us..belief and behavior is 'in the genome'.
November 24, 2009 - 5:11 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
92. moho
The US is not at war in Iraq. And please provide some factual evidence that being in one or two war sessions will bankrupt a country, any country.
LOL. You've disqualified yourself from being taken seriously. First, the fact that you're an idiot, is separate from my arguments. You are an idiot, and your arguments are wrong. The first is self-evident, the second I've proven time and time again. But I'll do it again: The evidence that being in two wars will bankrupt a country? We're bankrupt, we owe more than money than we have.
The US deficit has grown by 500 billion dollars yearly since 2003. Did you ever think to examine this question first, before you advocate that we be in the wars that we're engaged in? You're like the heroin addict who doesn't count his 30 dollar a day habit into his 40 dollar a day budget, and is thus completely solvent while wondering how he ended up on the street. Calling you an idiot was exceedingly generous.
And he's saying that the militant behavior of the Islamists isn't due to their..ahh..anger at the Evil West/USA (who after all can't help it; it's in their genes)..but the militant behavior of the Islamists is due..to their Muslim genes!
If you can actually provide the text where this is said, I would be very surprised. I haven't mentioned what drives muslims to do anything. I've merely commented on the low caliber of hillbilly genes that seem to drive the comments of many of those who post here. I've told you what drives YOUR behavior. I've made no claims about what drives human behavior. I've never met someone so stupid that they think that the obvious and embarrassing evidence of having lost an argument is somehow a vindication. But that's your choice, such as it is, suffering from the diminished intellectual capacity that you do. My condolences to your children, that is, if you are actually able to produce after so many years of inbreeding.
November 24, 2009 - 5:28 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
No, moho, insults are not an argument.
You haven't proven that I'm an idiot because, ahh…it's not self-evident. I'm afraid you have to provide some evidence. And you've never provided any proof that my arguments are wrong. Because you never provide any proof or evidence of anything you say!
No, you can't say that the two wars have bankrupted the country. You haven't related the two variables: war and bankruptcy.
You, moho, wrote: "your malfunctioning genome and the culture its produced."
Culture is societal; it doesn't refer to an individual's belief/behavior. Therefore, you were obviously referring to my 'group's' culture, which you define as gentically caused. You've confirmed your belief that 'genome' refers to a group with your reference to the 'hillbilly genes' of 'many who post here'.
Now moho, as usual, you only insult. You seem totally unable to engage in any factual or logical argument. I've asked you, since you reject my argument based on population, economy and political system – to explain what is the cause of Islamic violence?
And,you haven't explained what is petty, bigoted or stupid about my analysis.
Moho – anyone can insult. It's easy. But do you have anything to contribute to this site other than insults? If someone explains their view, can you use facts and reason to rebut it?
Or is insulting, name-calling..all you are able to do?
November 24, 2009 - 6:19 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
94. Moho
That O'Reily clip was hilarious. I've never seen someone so confident that he's got the moral high ground, even as he looks like a total cynical demagogue. In fact, I think most Americans are proud of our justice system, like the lawyer in question, and what they are proud of is that no matter how heinous the apparent crime, there are men and women who make it their business to make sure that has no bearing on the right of the accused to a fair trial. The man sat there politely as O'Reilly used his position to insult him over and over again, and walked away with dignity. And even at the end shrugged off O'Reilly's lame attempt to ruffle him by explaining that some people hate him. LOL, ow, Bill, really? Well, I'll just pack up my integrity and do whatever you want me to do. The funniest part to me was O'Reilly's "with all due respect, I think you're a weasel". My hero, lol.
O'Reilly, once again and for the five millionth time, looked like someone bullying a captive coffee shop employee for over-toasting his bagel. Though trust me when I say, I really do see the attraction for the clowns who post their opinions here.
November 24, 2009 - 6:29 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
95. Moho
You haven't proven that I'm an idiot because, ahh…it's not self-evident.
November 24, 2009 - 6:31 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
And here we have, yet again, all moho does is insult.
No facts. No analysis. Just insults.Moho- you reject my analysis of Islamic violence (modern violence not the old type) as based on population, economic mode and political mode. You haven't explained WHY you reject this analysis. Just the usual..insults.
So how about providing YOUR explanation?
Oh, and a military trial is fair. Are you now going to claim that military trials are unfair?
Or is insulting all you can do?
November 24, 2009 - 6:50 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
97. Voltimand
But of course, Robert Wright's argument has logic behind it: Hasan responded to America's fight against jihadism's sworn attempt to destroy it by fighting back because America is in the process of retaliating in self-defense.
Where's the problem? That's how wars are fought: I attack you, you attack me in turn, which causes me to attack you again. So Wright's right: America is at fault for retaliating in defense of itself, because of course Wright's solution is for America stop defending itself, and then Islamists won't attack it in turn.
It will not be attacking in turn, because in that case it doesn't have to: it will have already won the right and power to dominate America at will.
Mr. Wright is already dhimmi, that's all. He's personally capitulated already, so all that is necessary is for him to start reading the Koran in Arabic.
November 24, 2009 - 7:03 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
98. Moho
ETAB. Islam includes over 1 billion people across dozens of countries. Some of these countries are affluent, others are poor, some are emerging economies. There are hundreds of languages spoken in these countries, and an equal number of cultural approaches to Islam. Though Christianity lacks that diversity, I would ask you to reflect on whether there are any similarities between Druze Christians and Anglican Christians, or what value conducting a culture study of the two as if they were one culture would have. Doing so may take a long time, considering your intellectual challenges, and perhaps you'll need to ask someone outside of your inbred cohort for a little help with this. Finally, when you figure out how absurd your analysis is, how brutishly unformed, how like a child seeking to understand why the sky is blue without consulting a text book or asking an adult [that is an adult without cognitive defects such as yours]; get back to me. I promise that that is finally when you'll hear no insults from me. Because at that moment, you'll have resisted the stupidity that seems to infect your brain like a cancer and have begun moving towards understanding and knowledge. And though you'll still most likely be a total doosh, you'll be at least a doosh that a person of average intelligence can have a conversation with. Until then, my own humanity prevents me from allowing you to embarrass yourself any further. Consider our conversation over.
November 24, 2009 - 7:03 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
99. Voltimand
On the subject of Moho: all liberals do is insult, because "being a liberal" presupposes "being an angry person." When you're an angry person, what you do is treat other people with anger, and that includes insulting them.
Then there's the other, different problem of believing that you are making an argument when all you're really doing is insulting someone. That is called "making a mistake." Why so? Because "insulting someone" is not "making an argument," unless of course the main point of the argument is to insult someone. In which case, you are indeed making your case. It's just that this sort of argument turns out to be nothing but namecalling.
So as I see it, the main bone of contention is whether Moho's insults are "arguments." He thinks they are, apparently, but that is because he is an angry man who . . . (cf. above.)
Taking an angry man seriously is like taking a crying baby seriously. Am I taking Moho's insults seriously? Re-read above and decide.
November 24, 2009 - 7:12 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
100. john from cinncinatti
moho: you still one funny guy, my hillbilly genes are levi's, you ASSuME alot. you related to the big bad wolf cuz you got a lot of hot air.
hasan the major jihadist was/is a terrorist. what did the terrorist say to the other terrorist? does this bomb make me look fat. will this offend your intelligence?November 24, 2009 - 7:19 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
101. Moho
I'm not a liberal, but congratulations for noticing I'm angry. I'm angry at all you retards, combining your vote with your cognitive defects have single-handedly driven our country into a ditch. And still, here you are, like fecal-playing apes, diddling yourselves as you fantasize to Jihadist pornography; all the while our country's been sold to China, our soldiers return broken men while we kill innocent men and women and children in efforts to streamline our war effort with unmanned drones. But yes, a massacre in Texas is THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE FACING US! Despite the fact that every week, a crazed gunman goes mad and kills a bunch of people at their office, their child's school or the local mall as regular as clockwork, yeah, this means that we are about to be overcome by mooslims.
Yes, you noticed I'm mad; you are the head retard of the bunch, the silver back of this tribe.
November 24, 2009 - 7:20 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
102. Gary Marchinke
The Blame-America-First liberals are blaming America first. You could have knocked me down!!!
November 24, 2009 - 7:20 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
103. john from cinncinatti
the druze and anglicans both believe in Jesus? is that the similarity you were looking for? did i pass?
November 24, 2009 - 7:28 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
104. moho
you ASSuME alot.
Indeed, as do the idiots who believe that they can make broad assumptions about Islam based on the actions of a few. You aren't a hillbilly, though your cohort here seem to be, or at least act that way. You understand then, and now, perhaps, will set your friends on the right path. My work here is done.
November 24, 2009 - 7:35 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
105. Banned by Huffpo
You know, if the USA would just flog women for wearing trousers and stone homosexuals like in the wonderful world of Islam, this would be a much better country.
November 24, 2009 - 7:36 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
106. john from cinncinatti
listen moho the thread is about the ft hood incident. "we"killed innocent men, women and children. WTF you french or what. there is a lot going on with our country including dick head mooslims shooting up our military installations. this isn't an issue of loyalty to our country now is it. its that the mooslim crowd doesn't give it to the land they are in. come correct nimrod head of the angry liberals
November 24, 2009 - 7:38 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
107. Desert Dog
"Not all Muslims are terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Muslims."
I am not sure who first came up with that quote, but it is quite telling. Are the "1 billion people across dozens of countries" all terrorists? Of course they are not. Just like most people, the vast majority of Muslims want the same thing everyone else wants…a peaceful existence, a place to raise a family, a chance to live a life.
However, within that group of 1 billion, there are those that take the words of the Koran extremely literally and think that slaughtering people in Allah's name is just find and dandy. They strap bombs on themselves and detonate them hoping to kill themselves AND as many of the poor souls that find themselves near this "Soldier of Allah". Or, they load up a few .45′s and head to the Debarkation Center at Fort Hood to do essentially the same thing the pigs that shot up Mumbai last year did or what the piles of crap that blow up bombs in Pakistan today do. Ironically, most of the victims of this cowardly tactic are fellow Muslims. Sectarian fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan has probably killed more Muslims than the Evil USA has.
The senseless and cowardly attack brought on by Major Hasan at Fort Hood earlier this month could be lumped in with countless other attacks in the USA: Disgruntled workers, mentally ill people, suicidal losers, people craving attention, etc, etc. But, what sets Hasan's attack apart is the motivation. He may well be mentally unbalanced, but I would submit he seemed to know exactly what he was doing. From what I have read, he was cold, methodical and quite aware of what he was doing as he shot off over 100 rounds. He told the world as he started his bloodfest what it was all about – "Alu Akbar".
Deflecting, explaining away, rationalizing the fact that Hasan shot, killed and wounded all those people because of his religious beliefs is total BS. For those of you wanting to place the blame elsewhere, I suggest you take the blinders off and join us here in the real world.
November 24, 2009 - 7:53 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
108. Moho
John. I didn't know the people at Ft. Hood and neither did you; lose the phony indignation, its a cowardly manipulative tactic used by idiots who can't defend their ideas. We've killed thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan, many of them were simply civilians. I care about changing that, not about the act of a crazed lone gunman. If you can't handle that truth, if you need to hide behind the deaths of the real people at Ft Hood in order to avoid taking responsibility for our actions, do so, but don't expect me to treat you as if you just exited the holy of holies or something.
November 24, 2009 - 7:56 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
109. Pragmatist
# 87 If you reside in the USA Mohammedan MOHO I certainly hope the CIA and FBI are monitoring you as your posts indicate that you have the SAME evil mindset as the TRAITOROUS TERRORIST MOHAMMEDAN MAJOR. In fact I would ask PJM moderators to forward MOHO's contact details and messages to the appropriate authorities for action or be complicit in protecting him like the Army was with the TRAITOR.
November 24, 2009 - 8:10 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
110. Pragmatist
Islam is as Islam does and over 14000 Mohammedan Terrorist attacks just since 9/11 show exactly what Islam is and no bluff and bluster by a Mohammedan such as MOHO can change those FACTS. These TERRORIST actions are also condoned and in fact MANDATED by the Islams so called Holy Book and no running to hide behind Ancient AMBIGUOUS Arabic can change that either. So it is the PEACEFUL Muslims who are the MISUNDERSTANDERS not the Terrorists.
November 24, 2009 - 8:16 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
111. Pragmatist
Poor Citizen: Posts
"I still have some trouble with this shooter as some kind of al queida operative/terrorist cell. Hasan may have been..though I will wait for the results of the final investigation. I think the guy was a lunatic that acted out on impulse though with a certain degree of planning. I just hope the Army is investigated as there are some reports that THIS FELLA DID GIVE SOME "LOOSE" HINTS OF HIS INTENTIONS earlier in his career. We shall see."
How absolutely HILARIOUS and what a disconnect with reality you have PC are you a comedian if not you have missed your calling.
November 24, 2009 - 8:26 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
Moho – you still haven't provided an explanation for modern Islamic fascist violence, which, by the way, emerged in the Middle East in the 19th c.
Your superficial statement that some Islamic countries are affluent, some are poor, and that there are hundreds of languages and hundreds of approches to Islam (????) is not an explanation or argument. What's your point?
What about the violence? And no, it can't be defined,as you seem to be trying to do, to a psychological aberration of one individual 'flipping' in the workplace. You are ignoring the jihadist training camps, the mosques that preach violence. The bombings of civilians, the open declarations of a war against the West. Why do you ignore these realities?
Again, I gave my explanation for the emergence of Islamist violence in the modern world. You rejected my explanation but gave no reasons for your rejection. I've asked you several times to, therefore, provide your own explanation. You refuse to do so.
You've suggested that people's cultural behavior is due to their 'genome' – and both terms normally refer to a collective not an individual. Yet, if this were true, then why rant against Western behavior, since, according to you, cultural behavior is determined by 'genome'. After all, it can't just be the people who post here whose beliefs are caused by their 'genome'!!!! You can't be that unscientific!
You say that your 'work here is done'. But you haven't done any work. All you do is insult people.
How about an explanation for the causes of Islamist violence? You reject my analysis. So, what is yours?
November 24, 2009 - 8:28 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
113. Pragmatist
# 66 biblio44: wrote
"61. carla: "biblio 44 Uh huh. A lot of sensitive guys like you ended up in the ovens."
Jeez, carla, haven't you read your friend Pragmatist (#52)? He blew my cover; I'm really a "Mohammedan."
And now, Ron, I'll leave you and your followers to continue your wallowing. Have a Happy Thanksgiving."
Seems like Carla has really got your number biblio44 if you are as you claim to be but I stick to my Mohammedan conclusion.
November 24, 2009 - 8:30 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
114. Delia
Hasan is straight up fugly as are most of the whack-job, unibrowed jihadists who have been beaten mercilessly with the ugly stick and are so backwards thinking with their Islamic/misogynistic attitudes that they are guaranteed to never find a woman unless they can afford to purchase one.
Maybe we Americans need to give these Islamic extremists/terrorists-in-the-making types a make-over show, some TLC, a little intensive psychotherapy and cult de-programming so they stop fantasizing about their 72 virgin goats in heaven and start being realistic about their chances with a real female companion here on earth.
November 24, 2009 - 8:39 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
115. Pragmatist
In # 87 MOHO writes 'WE'VE killed thousands of people in Iraq and Afghanistan," and in # 82 'all the while OUR country's been sold to China, OUR soldiers return broken men while we kill innocent men and women and children'
However in # 60 MOHO the Mohammedan writes 'But please feel free to expound on your bigoted inventions about what's wrong with Islam, even as YOUR OWN country is involved in two wars at once that will certainly within ten years have spelt the complete collapse of YOUR nation'
Its quite clear that while MOHO just might be an American citizen that his LOYALTY is to the Mohammedan UMMAH. See thats what happens with LYING Mohammedans they are so stupid they cannot keep a story straight. This man MOHO is a dangerous individual if what he posts on here is any indication and the proper authorities need to know about him PJM.
November 24, 2009 - 8:50 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
116. Moho
Your superficial statement that some Islamic countries are affluent, some are poor, and that there are hundreds of languages and hundreds of approches to Islam (????) is not an explanation or argument. What's your point?
You are now officially the stupidest person I've had contact with.
November 24, 2009 - 9:52 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
117. moho
In fact I would ask PJM moderators to forward MOHO's contact details and messages to the appropriate authorities for action or be complicit in protecting him like the Army was with the TRAITOR.
Don't be surprised if some men in white coats end up knocking on your door instead, you little nut.
November 24, 2009 - 9:53 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
118. Dave Surls
"A Liberal Pundit Blames America for Maj. Hasan's Jihad"
The problem is with Islam, and the fanatics it spews out…not with America.
Everywhere that there's a Muslim population in contact with another culture there's endless violence, and all kinds of problems.
America has zippo to do with what's going on in the Sudan, in Kashmir, in the Philippines, etc., so sorry lefties, you can't attribute Muslim fanaticism to what mean old conservatives in America do.
It's all about Islam…and people like Wright are total idiots, appeasers, and general all around scumbags who just get their jollies trashing America (and right wingers).
And liberals are full of it anyway when it comes to their bleeding heart hogwash about war and killing, because progressive types killed more people in a few seconds at Hiroshima and Nagasaki then have been killed in all the fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq (way more). It's "progressives" who are the great killers (especially of civilians populations)…not right wingers.
November 24, 2009 - 10:08 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
119. Pragmatist
# 96 Moho I think not it is YOU who does not think the USA is YOUR country as I have PROVED and it is YOU who is defending the TRAITOROUS MOHAMMEDAN MAJOR and Islam and it is YOU who posts veiled threats and it is YOU who is constantly committig the logical fallacies of ad hominem and tu quoque to defend YOUR VIOLENT Mohammedan BROTHERS.
November 24, 2009 - 10:42 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
120. myth buster
51. Sorry moho, I'm the son of a portfolio manager and a banker, and I am on pace to graduate from the University of Michigan's Nuclear Engineering program in three years. You have to settle for the fact that the Navy doesn't want me and won't let me kill mohos- hey that's a good slang name for the enemy: mohos, short for Mohammedeans and sounds like mofos.
November 24, 2009 - 11:17 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
121. Moho
And liberals are full of it anyway when it comes to their bleeding heart hogwash about war and killing, because progressive types killed more people in a few seconds at Hiroshima and Nagasaki
No one who was involved in that is alive today, you idiot. The idea of using Hiroshima and Nagasaki as the bar for judging modern day killings is a definite sign of moral retardation.
November 25, 2009 - 12:02 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
122. moho
I'm the son of a portfolio manager and a banker
I know what they're thinking: maybe we hould have had that abortion after all.
November 25, 2009 - 12:03 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
123. Now and Then
On Hannity tonight Dana Perino actually said, "We did not have a terrorist attack on our country during President Bush's term"
Neither Hannity nor Stuart Varney thought it necessary to correct her.
Why not?
November 25, 2009 - 12:05 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
124. Pragmatist
# 101 MOHO and the ad hominem rolls on and on and on and on ad nauseum. But then you know you make people sick dont you Mohammedan its one of your main reasons for Trolling to get up the kaffirs noses hey. What a completely typical Mohammedan you are.
November 25, 2009 - 2:17 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
125. Dave Surls
"No one who was involved in that is alive today"
Good. The more dead liberals…the better.
November 25, 2009 - 2:39 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
126. Ollie Okbar
This thread is beginning to look like MoHo playing with himself.
November 25, 2009 - 3:41 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
127. moho
Dave Surls, you are functionally retarded. I do have pity on your children, however.
November 25, 2009 - 8:21 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
128. Ruvy
I read through all this mess, noticing the prominence of one fellow named Moho, who, if I'm correct is a Muslim, and likely a distant descendant of Ismaíl (just 75 generations away or so). That makes him a distant (thank G-d!) relative of mine and Mr. Radosh.
Moho is evidently too busy exploding on the keyboard to be exploding bombs to kill us Jew-folk.
And his comments are irrelevant to Mr. Radosh's essay, which attempted to skewer one Mr. Wright for being Wrong on Arab terrorism.
So, let's get back to Mr. Wrong and his excuse making. First of all, everyone here has blurred over the fact that the heretical school of "Muslim" thought that dictates this awful attitude of "it's my way or off with your head" comes from the influences of one ibn-Wahhab, a man whose followers included the family of the ibn-Sauds in the sick sands of Nejd; whose followers infiltrated the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt – thus influencing the PLO and Hamas, and all of its copycat groups; whose followers have spread all over the Indian sub-continent and whose madrassas are all over the world. It is as if a sick copy of the original has taken over the real thing.
Pathetic. Martin Luther shoulda been pope.
But this Mjr. Hasan was in contact with a Yemeni Wahhabi "theologian". The army knew about it and said nothing – until after 14 Americans were dead.
Mr. Wrong's arguments are all wrong on their face – hence the name.
Let's summarize this. There is no doubt that this Mjr. Hasan committed these murders. So the only question is: do we need five 40 cent bullets to kill this murderer – or ten?
Or the rest is baloney and a waste of time, money and bandwidth.
November 25, 2009 - 8:56 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
129. moho
Ruvy. Every post of yours is more damaging to Radosh's credibility than a hundred of mine. Keep on, keeping on.
November 25, 2009 - 9:15 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
130. myth buster
101. My parents are staunchly pro-life, and they are quite proud of me. And here's the kicker- I wasn't planned. Neither was my older sibling who died in a miscarriage a few months earlier, but that miscarriage only caused my parents to go out of their way to look out for my safety. So now you know, I wasn't planned, but abortion was never on the table, and neither was negligence. But I wouldn't expect a moho to know anything about loving your children, and that's saying something, since even wicked men love their children.
November 25, 2009 - 9:33 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
131. David Thomson
Moho is either a man or woman of a Muslim background who no longer fits in with that religious milieu. Neither the extremist nor the more moderate versions will open their doors to this individual. The radicals most assuredly would not hesitate murdering him/her because of their heretical views. Moho is, whether liking it or not, is compelled to align themselves with the allegedly inferior denizens of the West. This person can make a life for himself or herself in either New York City—or Tel Aviv. The extremists residing in the Palestinian territories and Saudi Arabia, however, would minimally spit on Moho.
November 25, 2009 - 9:44 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
132. Ruvy
Aw, come on, Moho, you and me are related, no? Every now and again it comes out that you are an Arab sick and tired of seeing Americans sympathize with the hated yahúd. I understand. Hey! For all I know, you may have relatives in that oasis of rich American Arab money in Samaria, Turmus Aiye. That's not too far away from me at all.
If you are the Arab I think you are, we are relatives – ever so distant, but relatives. And all this unpleasantness between us is a family fight. Let's not wash our dirty underwear in public, shall we? It's embarrassing to all of the Children of Abraham – all of us.
In not too long, a book will be coming out that will explain to you why it your duty to help us Jews resettle in our Land – a Land granted us in perpetuity by Allah. That's in the Qur'an, Moho – your book, not mine. You have your faith, and I have mine – and we are set here to see who can be more decent human beings, do more goodness and more kindness. You face Makka in your prayers and I face the Temple Mount. This too, is found in the Qur'an – your book, not mine. We are both children of the same Patriarch, Moho. We are both descended of the same stock – a righteous man who would run in pain in the heat of the day to bow before men and angels alike and feed them.
So, let's attempt to rise to the example of our common ancestor, eh? It's not too early.
November 25, 2009 - 9:45 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
134. moho
Mythbuster: File under "over-sharing".
November 25, 2009 - 9:51 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
135. moho
I understand. Hey! For all I know, you may have relatives in that oasis of rich American Arab money in Samaria, Turmus Aiye.
Oasis of rich American money? Try Israel, you doosh, we give them over three billion dollars a year.
November 25, 2009 - 9:53 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
136. Shyannie
Daniel Swordling (sp?) has been doing really masterful reporting on this story on NPR. After speaking with some of Major Hassan's former colleges, a picture has emerged of a man with a poor work ethic who was disdainful of and unprofessional in his dealings with patients-leaving patients in the middle of a consult, for example, trying to convert patients to Islam, and even not bothering to note what current medications a patient would be on. It seems to me that Major Hassan turned to Muslim extremism in part so that he could somehow feel better about himself. I also think that there is a high probability that he has gay tendencies which he didn't want to admit even to himself. I noticed when I was in graduate school in NYC in the early 1980s and living in a place with a lot of foreign students that a lot of the Muslim guys would go after other guys after a couple of drinks. I think that especially in some of these very conservative countries, where segregation of the sexes is routine, there is a lot of homoeroticism. Sort of like English boarding schools at the turn of the 19th-20th centuries, if you get the picture. Because these Muslim cultures don't seem to want to acknowledge that homosexuality even exists, it makes the gay among them feel even more cut off and marginalized and I suspect would drive some of them (like Major Hassan)to self-radicalize so that he could feel himself to better belong to the Muslim population worldwise. Just a theory.
November 25, 2009 - 10:14 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
My own view of moho is that he's 'stuck on stupid'. All he ever does here is insult people.
He never presents an argument; i.e., an outline of facts and analysis. All he does it tell people how stupid they are; he's 'stuck on stupid'.
When he's asked to provide his reasons for rejecting without any reason someone's argument, i.e, my outline of the causes of modern Islamic militancy -he can't do it. So, he just insults.
He doesn't seem to have any knowledge of the Qu'ran or hadiths. None. Absolutely no knowledge of Islamic history. No knowledge of population changes in the Middle East. No knowledge of economic changes in the ME. No knowledge of different types of societal or political organization. So, when one talks about these issues as related to Islamic terrorism – a reality that he denies exists – he gets upset and moves into his endless insults.
He says the most astonishing things, such as that there are 'hundreds of cultural approaches to Islam'(What? Islam is about passive submission not free interpretation.)
Or that cultural behavior is determined by one's genome. Heh – how's that for racism?
He generalizes constantly – our country is sold to China; our soldiers are all broken men'…in his constant attempts to reject the reality of Islamic violence.
He refuses to acknowledge Islamic jihadist violence. You can provide him with facts, dates, places of terrorist attacks; with the preachings and writings of imams promoting such violence; with details of terrorist trainng camps and so on. He refuses to acknowledge their reality. That says a lot about moho's mindset; stuck in a fantasy world.
His complete ignorance of history, of political systems, of economic systems, of population demographics…means that all he does, in his attempt to reject reality, is to insult people who live in the real world.
Moho lives in a fantasy world of ignorance. He's never provided any facts, any analysis for his rejection of the arguments and analysis of Islamic terrorism. All he does is insult any and all in the discussion. Rather sad, frankly.
November 25, 2009 - 10:16 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
138. Pragmatist
Who is this WE MOHO last time we looked it was YOUR wars and YOUR country less of the WE Mohammedan because WE dont want YOU.
November 25, 2009 - 10:18 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
139. David Thomson
"David Thompson. See comment 107."
And what is your point? The main thing is that you prefer denying your debt to the West. This is your home. Everything about you reveals your Western identity. You are no longer a member of Muslim community. If anything, you unwittingly describe yourself as something of a secular liberal.
November 25, 2009 - 10:18 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
140. Ruvy
Oasis of rich American money? Try Israel, you doosh, we give them over three billion dollars a year.
You truly disappoint me. More than one Arab I've met has told me of the rich American Arabs who settled in Turmus Aiye, building nice homes (Turmus Aiye is a very neat looking community from the outside, well lit and nicely decorated). The kids that live there are very American in the way they act, with lots of money – not "American aid" (really a Chinese credit chit – the American government has no money anymore – très embarassment) – this is money that mom and dad brought with them to invest in "Palestine". How much they lost to that thief and pedophile, Arafat, I cannot say, but the kids still reek of money.
Here I extend the hand of peace to you – only to get the knife of your contempt. Bless you, Moho. You have managed to prove why you and your ilk are not worth dealing with. 'Nuff said. See you later.
I feel bad. We are descended from the same Patriarch, and ought to behave with his dignity, Moho. Maybe another time you can rise to the occasion.
November 25, 2009 - 10:21 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
141. Pragmatist
Here is the RACIAL divide that OBAMA has caused laid bare this from Rasmussen today
"The President earns approval from 97% of African-American voters and disapproval from 61% of white voters. "
Quite clearly BLACKS are stuck in their RACIST groove.
November 25, 2009 - 10:32 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
142. Omar
My, my, Moho. Once upon a time, you at least TRIED to raise substantive points in your posts, but now it appears you've devolved into pure ad hominem.
Since you're feeling so feisty, maybe you'd like to comment on this recent headline:
Now, why is it that the islamic society at a major University like City College would feel no compunction about hosting a reception for someone who has publically called for the execution of gays and apostates? Could it be that there's really nothing all that "radical" about this position from an islamic standpoint?
Do you think there might be any relationship between the intolerance and hatred displayed by guys like Abu Usamah and the wide-spread abuses heaped on non-muslims in muslim countries?
November 25, 2009 - 10:46 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
143. Moho
More than one Arab I've met has told me of the rich American Arabs who settled in Turmus Aiye, building nice homes (Turmus Aiye is a very neat looking community from the outside, well lit and nicely decorated).
Do you have a point?
November 25, 2009 - 11:27 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
144. moho
November 25, 2009 - 11:29 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
145. Pragmatist
MOHO to a T
Description of Ad Hominem
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:
1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
3. Therefore A's claim is false.The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
Example of Ad Hominem1. Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."November 25, 2009 - 12:40 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
146. moho
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
That's the definition I have in my post, it is also from yours. You don't seem to have read the definition yourself, nor do you seem to understand it.
Here's an example of ad hominem.
A. People shouldn't listen to you because you are a retard.
This is not ad hominem:
B. This is the second time you've literally posted the same thing that I have concerning the definition of ad hominem. And, as, is quite obvious from your post, you've not understood any of the definition contained therein. You are literally posting text that you yourself don't understand as a rebuttal to mine, which quite literally says the same thing. Such behavior suggests that at best, you are functionally retarded.
Notice, that I've proven my point, and gone on to an ancillary point that follows logically. Because the issue here being addressed is so fundamentally obvious, it would seem only a below normal intelligence could fail to understand. Thus, it seems you are retarded. These are two separate functions. I am not disagreeing with you because you are retarded. I have proven that you are wrong, and in the process, there is strong evidence that you have below normal cognitive function. I've pointed out that evidence and its implications in closing. Good day.November 25, 2009 - 4:31 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
147. moho
Now, why is it that the islamic society at a major University like City College would feel no compunction about hosting a reception for someone who has publically called for the execution of gays and apostates?
Why don't you ask them? Do I look like the Information Desk for the Islamic World? However, I would caution a reasonable person from drawing any inferences from this fact–if it is true–unless you want people to consider you to be an uncritical thinker set off into avenues of absurdity by the mention of any notion that satisfies your bigotry. Someone who hears such a story and immediately seeks to make assumptions about a group of people over 1 billion strong, can only be considered to be of low intelligence and worthy of the attention only of penis enlargement ads.
November 25, 2009 - 5:26 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
148. Pragmatist
# 128 MOHO in seeking to prove a point MOHO merely gives us confirmation, if any more were needed, that he is exactly what we say he is and he is not even able to see the irony in that.
November 25, 2009 - 10:49 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
149. Pragmatist
# 129 MOHO writes 'Someone who hears such a story and immediately seeks to make assumptions about a group of people over 1 billion strong, can only be considered to be of low intelligence and worthy of the attention only of penis enlargement ads.'
Not only is this yet MORE ad hominem but totally illogical too and I have already pointed out Islam and Logic cannot ever be in the same sentence except when 'logic' is preceded by 'does not have any' or similar wording.
So where would anyone possibly get the idea that Islam is anti gay, misogynistic and anti semitic, mandates violence and prescribes DEATH for Apostates. Well maybe just MAYBE from your so called Holy Book the Koran and the sahih aHadith which describes the life and times and attributes of the man Mohammedans are told they should try to emulate the paedophilic, misogynistic, anti semitic, murderer warlord and thief the 20% profit Mohammad. Ah the Koran where along with tedious repetition, copious contradiction and utter nonsense it is all laid out in black and white. But hey MOHO Mohammedans dont read or chant the Koran do they LOL.November 25, 2009 - 11:02 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
150. moho
that he is exactly what we say he is and he is not even able to see the irony in that.
There's apparently no end to your misunderstanding of the English language. Irony is unlikely if a person proves to be exactly what they say they are. Irony is about incongruity, unexpected results, or meanings contrary to what statements would suggest on their face.
November 26, 2009 - 7:21 am Link to this Comment | Reply -
151. myth buster
117. You're the one who brought it up by impugning the integrity of my parents.
November 26, 2009 - 9:49 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
152. Michael Lonie
Moho is obviously a troll. Why do you guys keep feeding him?
November 26, 2009 - 10:14 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
153. David Thomson
"Moho is obviously a troll. Why do you guys keep feeding him?"
Excellent advice. There is simply no sense wasting time on Moho and his allies. Just ignore them.
November 26, 2009 - 11:59 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
154. Dave Surls
"Why do you guys keep feeding him?"
For kicks.
November 27, 2009 - 4:03 pm Link to this Comment | Reply -
155. Omar
# 129 MOHO writes 'Someone who hears such a story and immediately seeks to make assumptions about a group of people over 1 billion strong, can only be considered to be of low intelligence . . .'
_________I make no assumptions about "a group of over 1 billion." I simply wonder why people who self-identify as muslims while meeting as muslims in a group which also identifies itself as islamic seem to have no theological issues with someone like Abu Usamah. It gives the impression that islam might condone murdering apostates and homosexuals and waging jihad against non-muslims to impose islamic law – an impression which is bolstered by folks like Taha Abdul-Basser, the Imam of Harvard University, who advocates death for apostates, and the premier scholar of Sunni islam, Yusuf Al Qaradawi, who, as as best I can tell, publically advocates all three. . . . But since you insist that islam is all about "diversity" – I was wondering: where does Moho come down on these important issues? Where is his place on the "diversity rainbow" that is shariah law?
November 27, 2009 - 4:56 pm Link to this Comment | Reply
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