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Brave New World
The Zeitgeist movement is the first Internet-based apocalyptic cult, centered around a doomsday-proclaiming film and an ideology filled with classic anti-Semitic tropes
Over the last two weeks, Zeitgeist: Moving Forward, the third in a series of apocalyptic cult documentaries, has been screening around the world, translated by devotees of the so-called Zeitgeist movement into more than 30 languages. There were engagements in Buenos Aires and Athens, Sarajevo and Tel Aviv, Mumbai and Tokyo, among hundreds of other cities. In the United States, it showed at indie movie houses, underground bookstores, public libraries, and universities from coast to coast, including a five-day run at New York's Tribeca Cinemas.
About 30 people turned out for a Wednesday evening showing in Manhattan. After being greeted by earnest volunteers in Zeitgeist T-shirts and given the chance to pick up pamphlets and newsletters about the Zeitgeist movement—or TZM, as its acolytes call it—they sat through a two-and-a-half-hour film, alternately frenetic and soporific, explaining the necessary and imminent collapse of economies based on money, the root of all the world's sufferings. The film prophesied the emergence of a superior "resource-based economy," in which decisions about the allocations of goods and services will be made by computers free from corrupting "opinions." Robots will do most menial work, liberating people for more creative, humanistic pursuits, and technological innovation will ensure abundance for all. The movie ends with scenes of crowds worldwide surging into the streets and, realizing that money is but an enslaving illusion, dumping their cash in great piles in front of the now-impotent central banks. Amazingly, only one person walked out.
Zeitgeist: Moving Forward is silly enough that at times I suspected it was all a put-on, a sly satire about new-age techno-utopianism instead of an example of it. But to hundreds of thousands of people worldwide, the Zeitgeist movement is entirely serious. At times, it even seems like the world's first Internet-based cult, with members who parrot the party line with cheerful, rote fidelity. In a phone conversation, Brenton Eccles, a former member from Melbourne, described how his involvement cut him off from reality. "It's very, very, very isolating," says Eccles, who was part of the communications team in the movement's Australia branch. "You're encouraged to kind of exit the real world. There's kind of this us-and-them attitude." A few days later, he sent me a document recanting most of his charges and claiming that his conflicts with the organization had in fact been his fault. This did not make it seem less cult-like.
There are lots of strange things about the Zeitgeist phenomenon, but strangest is how it got started. It's a global organization devoted to a kind of sci-fi planetary communism, but it was sparked by a 2007 documentary steeped in far-right, isolationist, and covertly anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. The first Zeitgeist documentary borrowed from the work of Eustace Mullins, Lyndon LaRouche, and conspiracy-mad Austin radio host Alex Jones to rail against the cabal of international bankers that purportedly rules the world. It was this documentary that reportedly obsessed Jared L. Loughner, the disturbed young man who allegedly shot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.
Since the shooting, conservatives have latched on to the Zeitgeist movement's new-age side to argue that Loughner hailed from the left. Others, myself included, have pointed out that the original Zeitgeist film is full of fringe right-wing ideas that have migrated toward the mainstream via the Tea Party. Zeitgeist warns, for example, that the United States could soon be subsumed into a North American Union as a precursor to the establishment of totalitarian one-world government. Members of the Zeitgeist movement, not surprisingly, reject any connection between the shooting and their ideology, even as some of them welcome the new attention that it has brought their ideas. "It's ultimately a positive thing," says Keith Embler, the earnest aspiring actor who co-chairs the New York chapter. "It's press. And"—with the third documentary just released—"the timing couldn't be better."
Meanwhile, the evolution of the movement itself remains obscure. How did a modern gloss on The Protocols of the Elders of Zion inspire a global organization of wide-eyed technophile environmentalists? What is the Zeitgeist movement?
The documentary that started it all began as an art project. "The original Zeitgeist was not a film, but a performance piece, which consisted of a vaudevillian style multi-media event using recorded music, live instruments and video," the Zeitgeist website explains. The director, a young college dropout who goes by Peter Joseph, his first and middle names, says he "tossed" it up online, where it soon was getting hundreds of thousands, then millions, then tens of millions of views on Google Videos. It has since been removed from that site, but several people have posted it on YouTube, where various versions have received millions of views each, and on Vimeo, where it's been seen almost 600,000 times in the last six months. DVDs of the first two documentaries are also for sale online.
"The work was never designed as a film or even a documentary in a traditional sense—it was designed as a creative, provoking, emotionally driven expression, full of artistic extremity and heavily stylized gestures," the Zeitgeist website says. This might, however, be a bit of a post-facto rationalization, meant to distance Joseph from some of the reactionary ideas in his film. It certainly doesn't explain how the piece made the transition from performance art to relatively coherent two-hour documentary.
The original Zeitgeist has a three-part structure, and if you just saw the first third, you might think it came from the left. It begins by arguing, using a characteristic mix of fact and invention, that Christianity is a colossal fraud, a set of myths appropriated from pagan sun cults for purposes of social control. Control is the film's real theme: All our politics and our institutions, it suggests, derive from a conspiracy of international bankers who manipulate world events for their own profits. The second part argues that Sept. 11 was an inside job, engineered by these moneyed interests. Much of its footage was taken directly from documentaries created by the far-right radio host Alex Jones, whose work is devoted to exposing the global elite's plan for totalitarian one-world domination.
From there, Zeitgeist launches into a pseudo-exposé of the international monetary system, a theme that runs through both its sequels. According to Chip Berlet of Political Research Associates, a think tank that studies right-wing movements, much of it derives from two books: The Creature From Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin, a member of the John Birch Society, and Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins. Mullins hated Jews, but his references to Jews in the book are oblique. "It's bait, written by one of the world's most notorious anti-Semites to lead people into that analytical model," says Berlet.
Zeitgeist works the same way. Though it says nothing about Jews, its analysis mirrors classic anti-Semitic canards. Immediately after footage of the twin towers falling, for example, the film features an excerpt from a speech that Charles Lindbergh gave to an America First group in 1941: "When hostilities commenced in Europe in 1939, it was realized that the American people had no intention of entering the war. But it was realized that this country could be enticed into the war, in very much the same way that it was enticed into the last one." As his words play, headlines about Iraq float across the screen. "We cannot allow the natural passions and prejudices of other peoples to lead our country to destruction," he concluded. Lindbergh, of course, was talking about the Jews. Viewers attuned to anti-Semitic rhetoric would naturally conclude that Joseph was, too.
After Joseph put Zeitgeist online, it quickly became an Internet sensation. Clips appeared on the websites of Ron Paul supporters, white nationalists, and, before long, some Tea Party groups. Anarchists and anti-imperialists embraced it as well. Stories about it appeared in newspapers worldwide. Some were admiring: South Africa's Cape Times compared it to An Inconvenient Truth. Even the debunkers testified to its reach. An article in the Irish Times described the "massive interest" the documentary had attracted before lamenting, "One really wishes Zeitgeist was a masterful pastiche of 21st-century paranoia, a hilarious mockumentary to rival Spinal Tap."
As Zeitgeist's audience grew, people started asking Joseph what they should do with his explosive information. He didn't know what to tell them. He supported Ron Paul, but he believed the system to be too irredeemably corrupt for a political solution. That's when he met Jacque Fresco, a radical futurist and would-be secular prophet who has been preparing for his moment in the limelight for more than five decades.
Born to a Sephardic Jewish family in Harlem in 1917, Fresco moved to Los Angeles after World War II. The journalist Lionel Rolfe, in his memoir of California bohemia, Fat Man on the Left: Four Decades in the Underground, wrote that in the early '50s, "Fresco had a circle of disciples who considered him next only to Albert Einstein, although the friends and relatives of those disciples often thought Fresco was a fraud and a charlatan."
Back then, Fresco, a self-educated industrial designer, had already developed his ideas about machines making traditional economics irrelevant. In the 1970s, he moved to a compound in Venus, Fla., where he and his partner, Roxanne Meadows, set about creating designs for the cities—and civilization—of the future. They call their work The Venus Project.
Joseph learned about the Venus Project when Fresco, having seen Zeitgeist, sent him one of his books. For Joseph, Fresco's highly detailed vision of a world without money, a world where work itself is largely unnecessary and human ills like greed and crime are obsolete, was a revelation.
Soon, Joseph was devoting himself to spreading the word about Fresco and The Venus Project. His second film, Zeitgeist: Addendum, starts in much the same vein as the first, with an attack on the international financial system. But then it shifts to a worshipful examination of Fresco's work, offering it as a solution to the ravages of the current system. Joseph's latest film, Zeitgeist: Moving Forward, further elaborates Fresco's irenic vision of a "resource-based economy," one without poverty, inequality, or environmental strain.
The Zeitgeist movement emerged in 2008, after the release of the second documentary, as chapters formed worldwide to figure out how to prepare for immanent economic collapse and technological salvation. Joseph never acknowledged his massive ideological shift from decrying a one-world system to embracing it—he just powered through the contradictions with an intense, weirdly mesmerizing self-confidence. He seems entirely sure of his movement's capacity to fundamentally reshape human beings. In the first Zeitgeist newsletter, he explained to a letter-writer why there would be no gluttony in a resource-based economy. "[F]or a person to want 'more' than another is an unsustainable, conflict invoking value which serves only a selfish conditioning generated by the current cultural climate of 'survival of the fittest' via the Market System of Competition," he wrote. "TZM seeks to remove this system, hence removing the distorted values that coincide and are hence imposed and reinforced."
Lots of right-wing fans of the original documentary have since deserted Joseph, though not all—the Zeitgeist newsletter features an essay by a former Ron Paul activist who described trying to get his Tea Party group to embrace Fresco's ideas. Meanwhile, new cadres of progressive seekers have joined, going to meetings and throwing themselves into the movement's vibrant online community. At 96, the bearded, impish Fresco suddenly has a large global following—last year, he visited 18 countries on an international lecture tour.
Since 2009, the movement has celebrated Z-day in March, with chapters worldwide putting on events. The New York Times covered the inaugural Z-Day gathering in Manhattan, which attracted a sold-out crowd of around 900 to hear Joseph and Fresco speak. It was, wrote reporter Alan Feuer, "as if Karl Marx and Carl Sagan had hired John Lennon from his 'Imagine' days to do no less than redesign the underlying structures of planetary life." This year's Z-Day will take place on March 13, with a main event in London and local happenings worldwide.
Most members, particularly the new ones, are probably unaware of the Jew-baiting subtext of the documentary that launched their movement. Many were genuinely baffled in 2009 when a German social networking site, studiVZ, banned Zeitgeist groups because of their implicit anti-Semitism. Others seem a bit embarrassed by the first Zeitgeist; they'll often say it's "irrelevant"—one of TZM's favorite epithets—because it came out before the movement got started. But no one is disavowing it, and so a growing global movement of tech-savvy idealists continues to promote a work of far-right paranoia.
"I'm willing to accept that the filmmaker is a person who has a great energy and tremendous ignorance who inadvertently replicated the Nazi view of money manipulation," says Berlet. "In which case he needs to repudiate it." That seems unlikely. In a video interview available online, Joseph rails against his critics, "the self-appointed guardians of the status quo." The first Zeitgeist, he insists, "is based on pre-existing information. There isn't one thing in that film that doesn't come from a source." True enough. The problem is what the sources are.
Michelle Goldberg is a senior contributing writer at The Nation. She is the author, most recently, of The Means of Reproduction: Sex, Power, and the Future of the World. Her Twitter feed is at @michelleinbklyn.
Desert Storm
Israeli leaders have long had only one concern when it comes to Egypt: stability, which Hosni Mubarak provided. That's changing, no matter who ends up in charge.
This is the first article I've seen since Peter's documentary came out that was designed completely to troll the movement. Every point you make isn't even what the movement advocates and man, wow, so many labels. If ever someone was trying to be more destructive in misleading readers with a biased non-objective view, well, you win first place. For anyone reading this article, I'd urge you to read it cautiously, and although I encourage people to read all sides of the story, I hope you will be responsible enough to take this kind of slander with a grain of salt and actually do the research on the movement before passing judgment. Some people are so emotionally attached and invested in the current system that the very thought of an alternative puts them on the defensive and they feel the lash out and attempt to circumvent something they don't understand. As far as I'm concerned, the author of this article isn't a journalist at all, considering they haven't done any research whatsoever.
The Venus project see all people equal, there are no nations we are all brothers, we are all the same.
You should realize this and help to make world better place.
Anti semetic???? you must be joking! This movie promotes world peace and feeding the starving amongst us, it helps us realise we are a family of one race on this Earth and that because of our anger and hate at each other we our killing our Earth!!!! By the way your cry of anti- semetism is pathetic, when your stand point against this movie and its contents shows you as very niave about your own racist tendencies!
One of the few people who seems to see the nonsense that is Zeitgeist Movement. Sad to see that people are so gullible and foolish that they will believe anything that has some nutters uttering bullshit with destructive and doomsday imagery in the background. The problem is, people don't bother to read or they are just unable to analyse facts. And unfortunately thats the majority of people. And that is the target audience of TZM. Nevertheless, the world will progress as long as there are sensible and intelligent people.
Chip Berlet is a notorious charlatan who has no interest in defending Jews against anti-Semitism. He does, however, have a substantial interest in defending financial speculators against their critics, since it is the speculators who pay his bills via the Ford Foundation. So, in a curious inversion of the Blood Libel, Berlet argues that financial speculators are always Jewish and you must not criticize them.
The use of Berlet's "analysis" discredits your website. See http://berletwatch.freehostia.com
I think it is interesting – the thread of comments – against the interview – against the documentary – against the "movement".
It seems people are trying to be clever and ending up being obtuse, and aggro is ensuing.
In a world with incredibly real problems… this all seems to be much to do about little.
There are enough people who need a helping hand, who need to be fed, who need honest education, who need to have a friend help them out of a ditch, who need their wounds bandaged, who need 'tzedakah' performed.
Wearing a t-shirt and watching a film will not make a dent.
Sorry – I am literally off to Eastern Congo – to teach for six months out on one of the frontlines of this 21st Century, in Masisi.
I have seen the Zeitgeist trailer, I went to The Venus Project website. The futuristic drawings remind me of the drawings I used to see of Utopian space colonies in science journals in the 1970's, and fueled many an afternoon of daydreaming. It is all nice. I think it is all quixotic.
Nothing is that easy. Solving the world. Connecting the dots. Teaching in a war zone. I myself do not put much stock in ZEITGIEST, in Mullins, in Fresco, in the Venus Project, or in the worries of Michelle Goldberg. I think all of this is shadow play, distracting people from truly exploring how people need to engage with one another to 'save the day'. There are no 'deus ex machinas'.
Against all of this: I posit the writings of Emmanuel Levinas, a truly great philosopher. Now I must excuse myself. I need to catch a plane.
As a doctor of jewish history in a post-socialist country, who has seen the first two zeitgeist movies and loved them, i must say, hmm, the author has a point or two.
Zeitgeist lost me when it claimed 9/11 was an inside job. So Osama and the war in Afghanistan are a mirage to distract us from what is really going on?
Woow, the "journalist" of this review or w/e seems to be extremly ignorant, heres a free movie with over 300 venues all over the world in which most were free of charge i dont understand how someone could say that the people behind it have a "us and them" and aswell as the movement recognizes the earth as one. Silly article I hope you research before you buy into this article
I use this is a class where my students analyze the claims of the film. Most are found to be wanting by community college students doing research, which is why it's excellent entertainment and a wonderful teaching tool.
But anti-Semetic? That I don't see.
Apocalyptic cult? Doomsday film? All the contrary. I don't know how some people can make so long articles with so little research.
interesting that most of the comments here that decry the article and favour the zeitgeist movement come from non-jews.
i'm not sure the movement is quite how this article characterizes it, but it certainly is bullshit. i've seen the films and can testify to that.
Wow. This article insults the intelligence of the reading audience on these subjects. I had to read it twice to make sure this wasn't a satirical publication akin to The Onion.
Was Martin Luther King Junior also an anti-Semitic conspirator with Tea Party values who influenced assassins and shared views of Nazis? Clearly, he must be and Michelle could give us the scoop on how and why and even cite books he was likely influenced by to back it up.
In your next article damning The Zeitgeist Movement, Michelle, be sure to tie those hi-tech, pacifist, solution-seekers to eating babies or sacrificing virgins. I'm sure you can work it in casually to instill even more fear in anyone considering a serious evaluation of the group's very publicly assessable material. Ha ha!
LOL… You seem to see conspiracy under every roof, in every idea, everywhere. I expect you label every group different than yours to be a 'cult'. I expect you cannot think in other terms, your viewpoint is so distorted by fear, auto-piegonholing, and the inability to even consider that something might actually be new and different than your categories.
We have many Jewish people in the Zeitgeist Movement, as well as Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, and Atheists. Religion and race and politics and such are irrelevant. We are all in this world together. Nobody gets left out, harmed, or coerced. We do not, are not, and will not cause any of the problems in the world, but we will damn well find peaceful solutions to the problems that exist.
okay people … the author isn't claiming that the film(s)/movement are overtly antisemitic … what she's saying is that the film taps into commonly used archetypes that usually posit the jew as the evil one. As in, if the protocols of the elders of zion wasn't about the elders of "zion" (jews) but about a mysterious 'elite' that control the world and was called the 'protocols of the elders of the elite.'
proof she's saying this: "Though it says nothing about Jews, its analysis mirrors classic anti-Semitic canards."
having watched the first film (since reading this article), i see exactly what she's talking about, and suspect that she's right (maybe reading into her article here) that people will fill in the blank with, or at least associate jews with the mysterious elite that are controlling the world.
The writer of this article is probably a brainwashed moron who didn't even watch the movies.. go back to school
I seriously thought this article was all a joke, and to my surprise the so called "journalist" was actually serious. All the writer did was make false accusations and name calling. NOT ONCE did she review the actual information presented by any of the films, and specially the wealth of scientific understandings and solutions presented in the most recent one. Instead, the article focuses on the writer's conspiracytheory that the movement is just a cult that is a against Jewish people and shares similar views to Hitler!??? Seriously! What a joke.
I suggest people read the wealth of information and lectures available on the movement…Peter Joseph's lectures can be found here: http://vimeo.com/user2234363
It's possible that proclaiming conspiracies of bankers is no longer a dog-whistle for antisemitism, but is in fact to be taken at face value. (Which doesn't make the claims any more true, of course.)
Im sorry, i must be dumb, but i didnt see the antisemitism parts..
And I also thought.. from where it comes from?
i mean, they call it a cult… omg!!
there is more eyes opening than hand available to close them…
"NOT ONCE did she review the actual information presented by any of the films …"
if someone says "oh look, the sky is green!" you don't have to explain to them that the sky is actually blue. they're delusional, and as such, have not earned a response.
the same goes for people that claim there is no legal/constitutional basis for the federal income tax, or no law that requires people to pay it. That you believe made up shit that you find on the internet is appalling in its own right, i need not waste my time pointing it out to you. In any case, with hundreds of law books on the tax code, and literally thousands of historical and contemporary sources for its legal foundation, i think the author of this article is free to ignore the claim made by an internet conspiracy theorist in a made at home movie …
Jillian: "Was Martin Luther King Junior also an anti-Semitic conspirator with Tea Party values who influenced assassins and shared views of Nazis? Clearly, he must be and Michelle could give us the scoop on how and why and even cite books he was likely influenced by to back it up."
when you wrote this, did you think it was a good argument?
It seems the Zeitgeist cultists area already here to defend their weirdo e-religion. Take a little Marx, add in a little Star Trek, some drawings of buildings that look like they're from The Jetsons and *POOF!* you've got a brand new Internet doomsday cult.
Jacque Fresco was a member of The Ku Klux Klan and The White Citizens Council who's land in Florida was stolen from the last cult he lead. He left his wife and children to sleep with Roxanne Meadows when she was still a teenager. He's never been gainfully employed in his entire life.
this author loves using thought stopping cliches.
anybody who is affected by them should listen to this: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=573_1207852775
It's not. But stuff like this is. Short leap from Zeitgeist to this: http://www.google.com/imgres?q=jewish+global+conspiracy+cartoon&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=LJ8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1366&bih=627&tbm=isch&tbnid=AUJNDmLKM9ocXM:&imgrefurl=http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/occupy-crashes-rose-parade-attacks.html&docid=IJqDozSOlG8C2M&imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gODe34g3X3A/TwIzZYXlKJI/AAAAAAAAA_s/c5B7fRBMIxA/s1600/JewishOctopusOWS.png&w=505&h=527&ei=lhf-T5-hPMmA2wWMouWyDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=115&vpy=278&dur=2244&hovh=229&hovw=220&tx=138&ty=137&sig=115937948692790906128&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=129&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0,i:94
Oh come on Anticultist, why don't you tell the entire story? You tell the parts convenient because you think it makes Jacques look bad. He did join a KKK chapter that part is true but he dismantled the chapter from the inside out simply by talking their language and showing the evidence that they were wrong.
What you posted was low. Even for you.
Please put aside the labels and rhetoric and look at the ideas. The attacks of TZM are always superficial and emotional, instead of keeping an open mind, people attack because their value system is falling out from beneath them. Whatever you think of Jacques or Peter as people, look at the information…
I'm not sure what the person (3/4 Catholic 1/4 Jew) thinks they will be accomplishing in Africa, but your experience will be valuable for you egocentrically. Your teaching in Africa changes nothing (looking at what has happened to Africa in the past 30 years), maybe you will see all the NGO's and governmental corruption and start to piece it together. People from TZM come from all wakes of life, some of us even live/work in the developing world. A broad educational change needs to transpire, before we continue to volunteer in the debt/aide hamster wheel.
As a regular Tablet reader, I'm delighted by the plethora of comments. Rarely does the excellent writing on this site, including Ms. Goldberg's, receive the attention that it deserves.
With regard to the tone of the comments, however, I am surprised. I agree with Shavit. Perhaps in a post Anti-Semitic world we will feel comfortable with arguments that track the substance of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. But, we don't live in a post Anti-Semitic world. An alarming number of Americans believe bizarre things about Jews (i.e., the Jews killed Jesus) and are thus predisposed to Anti-Semitism. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion itself is popular literature in some countries. Against that background, any allegation of a global "elite" of bankers makes my skin crawl.
The author seems to think talking about a corrupt political and monied class will translate into violence against Jews. I suppose that is somewhat fair while at the same time does nothing to advance our understanding of the reality of our social systems and all their failings. Our civilization is failing in a big way and it very well will bring violence if not managed and understood. Not looking at our ruling class, sorry, we have one and their corrupt actions is an exercise in delusion. Just ask Chomsky and Marx. however, I look at our social structures as similar to poverty stricken areas that are overrun with crime. It's just a bad environment and produces bad individuals.
Holy crap, you actually got a masters degree in journalism? So much for objective reporting and credentials. But it's fascinating to see how a person can warp matters entirely out of context just by cherry picking those questionable items that ultimately lead to…anti-semitism. Bravo, it's a new one. We already got communist, fascist, cult members who are also into the occult, satanists, utopians and we're part of the NWO. It's quite a list and maybe the critics of Zeitgeist need to come together and decide which what schtick they are gonna stick, otherwise you'll look like complete fools.
So Peter Joseph, whose a covert anti-semite, hooks up with Jacque Fresco who turns out to be an actual semite. What's wrong with this picture? Now we also have a far-right agenda? Using the scientific method for social concern and not religion or politics is actually right wing? I thought it was progressive. But maybe the author of this article is joking, that would explain everything.
WOW. The self-delusion and self-righteousness of some of the commentators is astounding. I don't support an elite that calls itself anti-elite and claims to have an analysis of, and answer for, the world's problems. But I am skeptical of an elite that doesn't call itself an elite, either. Does this make sense? I hope so; at least more so than some of the rants and raves that appear above. Let's all try to muddle through a complex and rapidly changing world. Take a course in stress reduction and try again to breathe.
Probably the worst journalism ever. And I'm talking about the writer(s) of this article. I don't know what documentary you've been watching, but this one is filled with facts after facts after facts and a lot of logical thinking. Which the writer(s) of this article, and perhaps entire website, lack a whole lot.
PLEASE, if you wish to keep your jobs as journalists and not get lynched by a billion logically thinking people, report accurately and un-biased. You bunch of Fox-news loving trollerz
It is very easy to criticize other people when they are trying to do something positive.
Peter Joseph is only trying to make the World a better place, by putting his ideas out there. If there are followers is because people agree with his ideas, or else people just stop watching and don't follow at all (most my friends didn't like it).
What are you actually doing to make the World a better place? By writing this article criticizing someone else's work are you helping in any way the World? Are you contributing to anything in anybody's life?
@ Michelle Goldberg,
spot on. Thank you for your skeptical and critical approach. The fact that so many posters are writing proves that you hit a nerve.
Anybody who did their home work regarding totalitarianism and the workings of fascism knows what silliness this Zeitgeist is. It is a dooms day cult that uses fear to mobilize. Like Scientology or many other groups that feed into a huge market of half educated ( US ) dimwits who think they know something nobody else has thought of.
It is like the fools who claim they were abducted by UFO's and were impregnated with alien sperm. Sure honey, they chose YOU because YOU are special. That's right. And now go tell it to the world.
Bill Hicks would have a field day.
I don't understand what's so scary about a totalitarian world, I mean, if it was run without ego.
When something hits a nerve, don't immediately put up a fight. Try and examine WHY you feel that way, and maybe you will be surprised with the results.
We are all ruled by irrational fears, so sad.
TZM is cult full stop.It doesnt do anyhting.Seriously guys do you really think sitting around on your asses all day achieves anyhting.BrutusCass's youtube video TVPChallenge Response is an excellent video that sums up many of the problems that TZM/TVP has.Listen I dont like the way the world works and I would like to see an RBE come to fruition but Frescos version is not the be all and end all version of it(Star Trek presents a more realistic versionof it).Listen guys I dont like the way the world is run and Id like to see a alternative but the fact is:
1.Your adamance about genes playing no role in behaviour(when its clearly 50-50)is not scientific Jacque is regurgitating 80 year old science
2.The fact that you have no clear transition plan(ah yes just stick it to the man and everyone will follow and suddenly the world will).The fact is you need money and you need banks and politicians to get things.Yes there are people in those groups who would like real change in the world this black and white is evidence that its a cult its a means of Merola et al of keeping you in check and believing your the only solution and means to bring about an RBE or save humanity.The world works in subtle shades of gray the fact that you ignore that makes you no different than christian fundementalists(who also are under the delusion they are helping humanity.)Many poiticians and bankers and CEOs would be open to an RBE by labelling them all corrupt your alienating allies.The reality is you need money and these people to get things done.We live in a capitalist society if you want things done you need money it maybe outdated and evil but you need it do get thes technologies off the ground and this cities built.
3.Jacques designs are outdsated and havent changed from the last thirty years.Most of the designs are impractical & saying that this is how all six billon + people are going to live is retarded.
4.ZMF was a cut & paste job of the orientation video & Addendum minus conspiracies & was a platform for Roxanne & Merola & everyone interviewed to whine about how there the victim here and that there right and everyone else is wrong & any criticism they have is unfounded.Listen maybe if actually did something other than sitting around and whining like babys & regurgitating the same crap over and over again you might get some credit and respect.There are supposedly 500,000 members if every one of ye donated $500 thats $250,000,000.Thats more than enough to build geothermal plants and hydroponic skyscrapers & fund the technologies present in the movies.All this crap about critical mass is just crap to prevent any real work from being done and make Jacque et al look like enlightened:
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
-Margaret Mead this quote makes my point clear(and guess what you used it too – Is all six billion people on the planet a small group of citizens?(flippty flop)).Simply put actually do something rather than just sit around and feel smug like your somehow saving the world when clearly you arnt.In other words ill regain respect for Merola,Meadows et al if they actually got up off there asses and did something rather than play the victim and scare people into submission.
In short the only people that are stammering any promise of an RBE or anything like it are TVP/TZM itself.Noones going to take you seriously if you retarded muppets keep going on with this shit.If you spent half the time you spend on these Why I Advocate and other youtube video campaigns you might actually get something done & some credability in the real world.There are only so many ways you can say the same thing over and over again.Every that can be said about an RBE has been said now get up off your ass actually do something for a change.
On a sidenote the author was not labelling the movement or all the movies as anti semetic she was just saying that the first movies attacks on the banking cabel as being similar thats all she did say TZMs were anti-semetic.God you guys are seriously defensive and ignorant of something so blatently obivious(LOL!!).
sorry thats :"she was just saying that the first movies attacks on the banking cabel as being similar thats all she did say and TZMs WERE NOT anti-semetic." my bad
I'm ashamed to be a part of America where we are among the dumbest people on earth. You are so stupid it really is sad to see. Whoever wrote this article clearly doesn't understand the movement and didn't take the time to research it. You people are sick in the head and I will pray for you. You need to wake up. Jacque never one time said that his creations were a final product. You should do some research and read some facts before you make yourself look even DUMBER trying to argue against us. Honestly, I wish all of you brainwashed idiots with half a brain would just die. You really are disgusting and pathetic humans. The world would be better off without negative people and I believe god will heal you or put you to death if you continue to act this way.
"But then it shifts to a worshipful examination of Fresco's work, offering it as a solution to the ravages of the current system." This is comepletely false just like most of the article. Like I said, Jacque's creations are not a solution, it's just a stepping stone. He never claims that it is a final product.
"Honestly, I wish all of you brainwashed idiots with half a brain would just die. You really are disgusting and pathetic humans. The world would be better off without negative people and I believe god will heal you or put you to death if you continue to act this way." – There goes that pacifist charm.Gee you really are so enlightened and humanitarian.
Did I ever state I was enlightened or humanitarian? Are you labeling me because I support the movement? I have my own opinions just like everyone else you moron. Get an education.
Sorry if seem to be quite ignorant but in fairness when youve dealt with countless of members who do go the whole holier than thou path(with the "if you dont have solution than your a corporate apologist yadda)you get caddy sometimes .Listen there are flaws within the whole lets protest and sit around and do nothing like every other failed movements.The movement is well intentioned as before it justmisguided (a little constructive criticism needs to be taken) There is nothing wrong with TZMs goal its just misguided in its approach.Now in fairness its been nearly three years since its inception and what has it really achieved anything?Listen if in at least two more years it is still "spreading awareness" and are still doing nothing in the real world ie getting a feasible transition plan and actually building any these hydroponic farms then I dont think its going to achieve anything.
The journalist is being objective as in shes stating that yes the concept of zeitgeist does sound good but is there flaws(which like everything else theres room for improvement).Shes simply saying we should question it and aproach with a cautious mind(in other words not take things at face value) like anything else and isnt questioning everything what Peter espouses.
Again Im sorry if I appear moronic but in fairness I have tried adressing these flaws with many TZM members calmy and I have been met some very harsh individuals who act childish.As I said we have to look at the mistakes of other movements and see all the places where they went wrong and try not to repeat them.
All Im saying is sitting around and doing nothing achieves nothing activism involves action and planning.People criticise the movement and take it seriously because theyve went through this already with Al Gore and the fringe environmentalist movement(trying the same technique over and over again and expecting different results well you know the rest).To be successful it must see ts flaws and improve on them
I do know where you're coming from. We promote debates and we encourage people to point out the flaws, but not if you are going to give us the negativity without actually taking the time to fully understand and interact with our members. We look at each other as brothers and sisters. Most people have not watched the movies with an open mind from beginning to end. They have not been on our forums debating and asking questions. They have not been fully convinced that our society is failing. These people need a revolution of the mind before we can make any progress.
The only way this will work is if a large % of the population are aware and then we can make things happen. This won't happen over night. The government will not conider anything that has to do with the movement, because their goal is power and profit. They want the population to follow their system. They don't care. They want people to be seperated by race, religion, countries, cities, income, etc. We need to realize that we are on this planet together and we have to be at peace. Forget about money and profits and competition, becuase that is what makes us the type of people we are: greedy, egotistic, heartless, unaware, etc. The population grows every day as jobs are being lost. Technology is causing people to lose jobs. There simply is not enough well-paying jobs for everyone in the world to have a good life. The system is set up to fail.
Spreading awareness is the hardest part, because we are trying to reach people in every part of the world, while people bash us, give us a negative image, call us a cult, block our videos on popular sites, negative comments, etc.
Look, you have to feel some kind of way about how life is today. There are over a billion hungry people out there. People are killing each other. People are losing their minds strictly because of the kind of world we live in. They spend more money on a bogus was than for education. Wake up people.
Check out the Zeitgeist cultist threatening the author with "lynching" for writing a critical article. In an article accusing the movement of being based on anti-Semitic conspiracy theories no less. Classy!
The whole movement is absolutely and utter fail.
Ive watched all the movies Ive seen practically every video there is to see.Hell at the beginning of the movement I was showing it to everyone I knew and randm people on the web.Yes the world is falling apart indeed i understand that and in fact I known that a moneyless is possible but lets face we face tough competition from media barons who spend billions on propaganda to brainwash the world and when you show people pretty CGI movies with no logical plan you are going to be trumped.The amount of time wasted on awareness campaigns that fall apart easily at the seams is not going to do you any favours.Its nice to say you want to save the world but you have do your homework and not get caught in the frenzy.Watch Penn & Tellers Bullshit episode on Environmental Hysteria and you see that thats the same route that TVP/TZM.As for the government being all bad and evil no thats not true I myself have talked to many politicians about RBE and they would like to see it happen but they see it as half baked.If your attitude is everyone has to learn about it before anything can be done then eventually thats all your gonna do and eventually people are going to become sick and tired of having rheoteric shoved down their throat without nothing being done thats why we have "green fatigue" you have people in the first world who drive hummers and live in mcmansions telling everyone how to live.Similarly your going to have celebrities and rich celebrities doing but spreading awareness to gain publicity in because it feels and looks good with nothing being done.THe "transition plan" you have is half baked:We all protest(never going to happen) then the "man" gives and then out of the goodness of our heart everyone abandons the worlds cities(NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN) and builds silly circular cities using scarce expensive space age metals I mean noones going to listen to that.Listen every successful movement got to where it is today by INFLUENCING GOVERNMENTS AND CEOS ie civil rights,LGBT
Do you want to criticize The Zeitgeist Movement and Resource Based Economy? It doesn't matter if you didn't understand the idea, all you need to do is use the key words: Communism, Cult, Anti-Semitic.
I also suggest reading this:
Man, I get what you're saying. Like I said it's not going to happen over night and it will be a long and painful process, but you keep missing the point. You need to think with a positive mind. Stop saying we "can't" do this or this will "never" happen etc. If everyone was like you, then we would never accomplish anything. We spread awareness because we want people to wake up and show them that we CAN make a change. As we grow there's a better chance that we can actually make something happen instead of just talking about it. As we speak, our movement is gaining members from every country on earth. They understand that if we work together and promote peace, then we can create a better earth for the benefit of ALL humans.
The people in Egypt are already aware and you will see similar events around the world in the next few years. It really is ashame to live in a society where people think they are superior to other humans. We sit back and let this government kill innocent people and continue to fight this war with our tax money. This is not acceptable and if you will continue to "play your role" in society and not stand up for your human rights, than you are really a sick individual. In the future, we will be laughed at for living under these conditions, that is if we don't all die.
then we shall have a bet I am going to use the system to change and your going make youself look like a retarded space hippy and we are going to see who is taken seriously by both the world and the media nad who will go down in history as the saciours of mankind and who will go down as jokes on family guy and other tv shows.Go make idiots of yourselves in the front of the entire world like you already have on the internet noone takes you seriously on the interweb.Decades from now noone will even know the name of Zeitgeist Movement the true saviours will have the luxury of going down in the history books while you,Merola,Roxanne and Jacques will fade into obscurity.Youll look back at this part of your life and think what was I thinking about when I supported TZM,Merola et al.Noone in the real world watched ZMF it barely made a splash in the cinemas,you only got to screen
These films aren't documentaries. A documentary is showing different people and their ideas or what they are going through and letting the audience decide what they want to believe about the subject. When you lecture for 40+ minutes on how people got the wrong information, you are no longer making a documentary but rather an education or propaganda film. These films tend to be far more propaganda films than educational or documentary. It's films like this that make documentaries look bad in the public eye. Documentaries can be very interesting and enlightening allowing you to see from the view of someone else and make up your own mind. Instead these Zeitgeist films want to beat you over the head with how wrong your thinking is and how you should think like they do. That is the mark of a propaganda film pure and simple.
Also these films have absolutely nothing to do with the Zeitgeist, so I am not sure why they even used that title. This is a fringe group trying to push their ideas, not the Zeitgeist of a nation. Reminds me of a movie quote that applies to them, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Zeitgeist is the general cultural, intellectual, ethical, religious, and/or political climate of a country. Put more simply, it is the general thinking of a country at a given time, usually referred to currently or now. The ideas in this film are definitely not that. They are clearly a fringe group or small number of people that do not represent the majority or even large percentage of the population.
The film was not able to secure a distributor at all. They only had 305 theaters show it world wide and reports are that those were rented out by volunteers. It is also clear that the movie wasn't accepted at all by the movie industry or the general public given that the movie is already being released on DVD. The premier was January 15th and then DVD release is February 7th but I have already seen a few places that are selling
I cannot dispute your opinions, but your facts are completely wrong. If you know this, you are being dishonest. If you do not know this, you may be surprised by the real facts. I suggest you do a little more digging.
Wow you are dumber than I thought. I can't believe I wasted time posting on this worthless site. I would bet life on it that you won't do shit in your lifetime. When people like you die off, then this world will be at peace. You are a worthless human. You keep thinking what you want to, but when it comes down to it, you're just another idiot who is negative. You won't accomplish anything. You my friend, will rot in hell. I will guarantee you that. Keep it up bro. The media is a bunch of bullshit, that's why you won't find anything relating to TZM on TV or in any magazine. They won't allow it because they want people to be DUMB just like you.
Oh! You never mentioned Fresco's preference for naked children running around having sex with whoever they want from as soon as they are able! Did you not know he enjoyed this type of environment (and its offerings perhaps) while living on a Polynesian island? Children there sleep in the same room as their parents and therefore are able to see them have sex. This is grooming children for sex of course, which Fresco sees as perfectly natural and healthy. Well it might be natural but I can't see how it benefits children at all. Why do they need to be having sex from a very early age? And do they really benefit from having sex with old men? Surely this situation is just a dream playground for peodophiles. Which begs the question….is Fresco a peodophile?
Yeah, that's true. He also advocates sex with animals since he believes any taboos regarding sex are due to social conditioning.
He's one sick, old puppy.
I dont think its going to happen im just saying the rubbish abvout protesting and spreading awareness wont get you anywhere
Zeitgeist is not anti-Semitic. The movement has a chapter in Israel that is full of well. JEWS! Sheesh this author is so stupid.
Conspiracy Science is actually made up of former members of the Zeitgeist Movement who were suspended for troll like behavior, being generally disruptive, and spouting off things which were completely against the tenets of sustainability, egalitarianism, mutual respect. They were disrespectful and rude. These are the only reasons people are dismissed from our forums. However, these people have formed a grudge based on that dismissal, and therefore go out of their way to make trouble for the movement, thus proving the justfiability of their dismissal.
By the articles own statement, the notion that anything put forth by the movement is antisemitic is pure projection on the part of the reporter. I will admit that this is the most researched article I've read to date, but that does not, unfortunately make it more accurate.
With regard to the comments made by oreolvrs… The movie never attempted to gain a releasing agency. It was shown in theatres globally with the intent of raising local awareness in those areas, while earning a few dollars for those local chapters to support their media costs, for promotion of the movement. Also, the movie was intended, from the beginning to be released on the internet very shortly after this theatrical run. It was released on the internet on Jan25, not Feb 7. And, any DVD's being sold should not be excessive, or approaching the cost of standard DVD's.
As for who will fix the world… I really don't care who succeeds, just so it happens. By the way, of some interest may be the fact that while our movement is relatively small on the global scale, it has grown faster than any other in its short existence, and has several other movements which accept that we have the same basic goals, even while we offer alternative solutions.
So, there is certainly a world wide growing consensus that it is time for a changing of the guard, so to speak.
You're an idiot, theres nothing more to say.
You, as a human being, don't even understand yourself, your identity is so far removed from who you really are, there are over 6 billion people worldwide. All you see is yourself one dimensionally and your thoughts are based on limited knowledge conditioned within the environment you grew up in. You have nothing tangible to say except perpetuate traditionalist views which have continued to sufficate our species, psychologically, socially and biologically, for thousands of years. Ignorance, Superstition and Fear come to mind. We are repeating ourselves at an alarmist rate. If you call the Zeitgeist movement a cult, then you clearly haven't tried to understand their logic or what they are presenting our. Or you have no empathy and your greed,parroquialism will be part of what destroys the human race.
good day.
Again I like to state that most commenters ignore the fact that she is reffering to the fact that the first movie had Anti-semetic undertones with regards to the banking she NEVER state that this is intentional and simply states that the first movie happened to have similarities to theories of zionism bankers ruling the world.In fairness you can understand where shes coming from as a Jewish person she has probably have had to deal with CTrs throwing around that theory all of her life/career so at least forgive her when she makes the little mistake you can at least point it out to her that it was wrong without insinutating there was something wrong without calling her stupid.
"As for who will fix the world… I really don't care who succeeds, just so it happens. By the way, of some interest may be the fact that while our movement is relatively small on the global scale, it has grown faster than any other in its short existence, and has several other movements which accept that we have the same basic goals, even while we offer alternative solutions.
So, there is certainly a world wide growing consensus that it is time for a changing of the guard, so to speak."
Indeed many of the members of TZM dont seem to realise that everyone wants change,education reformers want change,politicians want change and many bankers would want change.My argument is that they seem to have this view that they are the only ones who will save the world.Even ZMF propagates this black and white view the reason why many people ignore,criticise or dont take them seriously is because as I said they dont have a tangible transition.As I said you money to get our cities transformed into cleaner more sustainable cities,You need governments and reform to get geothermal plants built,maybe when we do achieve and RBE people wll do things for free but until then we have use the current system we have to make it obsolete.
Listen ZMF was nothing more than propaganda the entire thing was a rehash of everything weve seen and heard before.Everything that can be said has been said if want to introdice someone to TZM show one of the countless videos on youtube that say everything.Most critics have Zeitgeist fatigue like how maistream society has green fatigue.If want to be taken seriously raise money I have said this countless times if each member raised $500 you have $250million:go build these geothermal plants,these hydroponic skycrapes and fund the development of automative live up to the mantra of "being the change you want see in the world"(Im actually trying to help you guys..this is why mainstream media ignores you because to be honest yes an RBE is a good idea its just that your getting swept up in the passion of saving the world without doing your homework).If want to reruit those who you perceive as ignorant than actually do something other than sitting on your ass all day talking about the future and calling people who see the flaws present as ignorant or as supporters of the status quo.There are flaws in TZM/TVP and if your unwilling to address them then I dont see how you expect to be taken seriously at all.Now Jacques ideas and consept of transition along with the design are outdated its time to update them.
If you really think about it. The money system is the biggest cult on this planet. Time will tell us this, look at Egypt, if they elect someone new still built on the foundations of the money system, it will happen again. We need real change. The zeitgeist Movement is not a cult, nor is it utopian. I would like to ask the writer to define such a word and compare to the movement. Please check the movement out for your self. I wish for more people to view "Zeitgeist: moving forward" for them selves. It is free online now. I also encourage people to visit the Venus Project and make their own decision instead of listening to a dinosaur in support of the status quo, just look at where that has got us to now, poverty, war, riots, It is all anti human kind. You are more power full than you have been told. You must first change your thinking. If the system was working, then there would be no need for such a movement.
he world's present industrial civilization is handicapped by the coexistence of two universal, overlapping, and incompatible intellectual systems: the accumulated knowledge of the last four centuries of the properties and interrelationships of matter and energy; and the associated monetary culture which has evloved from folkways of prehistoric origin.
"The first of these two systems has been responsible for the spectacular rise, principally during the last two centuries, of the present industrial system and is essential for its continuance. The second, an inheritance from the prescientific past, operates by rules of its own having little in common with those of the matter-energy system. Nevertheless, the monetary system, by means of a loose coupling, exercises a general control over the matter-energy system upon which it is super[im]posed.
"Despite their inherent incompatibilities, these two systems during the last two centuries have had one fundamental characteristic in common, namely, exponential growth, which has made a reasonably stable coexistence possible. But, for various reasons, it is impossible for the matter-energy system to sustain exponential growth for more than a few tens of doublings, and this phase is by now almost over. The monetary system has no such constraints, and, according to one of its most fundamental rules, it must continue to grow by compound interest. This disparity between a monetary system which continues to grow exponentially and a physical system which is unable to do so leads to an increase with time in the ratio of money to the output of the physical system. The result will be large-scale financial instability.
"I'm willing to accept that the filmmaker is a person who has a great energy and tremendous ignorance who inadvertently replicated the Nazi view of money manipulation," says Berlet. "In which case he needs to repudiate it."
Doesn't he mean refudiate?
This article is the most out of balance piece of inaccurate crap I ever thought I'd see excreted from a masters degree in journalism. Hey Michelle, I could make a list of all the logical fallacies you've written here, but I'm at work right now and don't have time to explain them all as there are far too many.
I'll tell you what I will do though. I will suggest watching this:
See what philosopher and author, Stefan Molyneux, says about people like you. Have a good one, Michelle.
This is very well constructed Michelle, thanks for taking the time to interview – and apologies for not getting back to you on the last e-mail (I've been swamped with work as of late).
I never meant for my 'document' to seem like a 'recanting' of everything from our initial interview, but rather as something to consider – if anything out of worry that I went beyond being critical to hyperbole in our original discussion.
Anyway, great article. Certainly brought extra information to my attention that I haven't come across before.
Michelle, wow, you are problably the most ignorant person ever to critize TVP or the ZM, your baseless assumptions are incredibly shallow and it seems that you went along trying to desperately find something that could damage Joseph or Fresco, but you have totally failed.
Its always so easy to critic and to try to diminish people's ideas, but if you Michelle really had a clue you woulndt be vomiting all that trash.
If you are one of those who believe that we can still fix this inhumane and tremendously sick society with more money and good will, then you are the one living in a huge utopia.
If you were a real journalist you would be objective and not selective, and you woulndt have to use lies and exaggerated paranoia, you remind me of Bill O'reily and those kinds of media who–s.
I'm with you, Doris. I'm a supporter and contributor to Berkeley's BOINC system and I'm told that Michelle got her masters from Berkeley. It's rediculous. I would be tempted to contact their alumni association and draw some attention to Michelle's work here, but I would be terrified to learn that THIS is actually the standard of journalism teachings coming out of Berkeley.
Interesting rhetoric…. A jewish man of Spanish descent becomes one of the main protagonists for a global anti-semitic apocalyptic cult…?
To quote; The old appeals to racial, sexual and religious chauvinism, to rabid nationalist fervor are beginning not to work….We are one planet (also in one of the zeitgeist films I believe)
Carl Sagan – A Jewish man of Russian descent.
I could go on but I feel it might be futile
Interesting rhetoric…. A jewish man of Spanish descent becomes one of the main protagonists for a global anti-semitic apocalyptic cult…?
To quote; The old appeals to racial, sexual and religious chauvinism, to rabid nationalist fervor are beginning not to work….We are one planet (also in one of the zeitgeist films I believe)
Carl Sagan – A Jewish man of Russian descent.
I could go on but I feel it might be futile
I would add to my last comment that I never saw this sort of point of view coming from Michelle. I'm honestly surprised. As I said, there's some interesting stuff to consider – but having been considering it over the past few days I don't feel that the association holds up at all.
I'll go on the record as saying that, yes, I do still support the ideas of the movement – as I have done a few times in recent months. Having left, and been outside of any organisational role for nearly a year (and with no intent to return to the same place) I have had plenty of time to be very critical of the movement which is nothing but a good thing in my mind.
I do think that, however, this article (while presenting interesting information) falls for from making the case strongly that the ZM is anti-semitic. The connection just isn't there, Michelle.
You even said in your discussion with me "I wouldn't consider any of the members I've met to be anti-semitic". Well, the membership IS the movement. So what is it? Anti-semitic or not? Even you seem to be confused.
I think Arraya is the closest to the truth from all the posted blogs above. Arraya, can you please contact me. If you have a FB account you can add me or anyone else that wants to add me. Search for Kyriakos Gogakis and we'll talk.
As far as the article is concerned I do not want to go into analysis etc. Just one point: isn't the fact that TZM supports BOINC considered as "doing something"? Anyway, there are a lot of other things that TZM does and people have not been aware of yet but soon will. Apart from TZM there are other "movements" gearing towards that direction. So, let's stick to changing the world. Save your energies for that.
This dubious article is as journalistic as one could expect given what passes for reporting in the early 21st century. The author strains terribly to add bulk to her claim that the Z films are anti-Semitic by desperately trying to create even loose associations to Lindbergh (because he was quoted once) or Eustace Mullins (because MAYBE his book was used in conjunction with other books to derive conclusions about the monetary system in the early Z film). These arguments, among many other fallacious ones, are so numerous I cannot begin to confront them.
No attention is EVER given to the main conclusions of the films which expose the very real phenomena that stupendously wealthy, powerful, & influential people in the top 3% of the human population are working tirelessly to gain differential advantage over limited resources, using increasingly sophisticated technologies and force to claim ownership over increasing amounts of those resources from increasingly depleted sources in ever-increasing parts of the globe, and that our current system is designed to reward this behavior. There is absolutely NO mention of the attributes of strategic preservation, strategic safety, strategic efficiency, and strategic access valued in the resource-based system advocated by the film when confronting life systems on Earth.
If you have not seen the film for yourself yet and are forming your opinions based on articles such as these then you are a part of the problem. See for yourself what the movement values. I'd be astonished if you walked away with an analysis anything like the twisted version reported above. There is a convergence of crises we face on this planet. They are very real. Our modern methods of measuring success both as individuals and as nations underpin all of these crises. There are superior ways to orient our civilization to the physical resources of Earth and there are inferior ways. Which category does our current design fall under?
Yes, very well said Eddie, infact it's so well said that I almost thought for a minute there I was reading something written by Peter Joseph himself…
First off let me say I am a member of the so called "cult" you are referring to. To be honest reading this article made me grind my teeth in anger at how belligerent this article is. I mean I didn't see one ounce of critical thought, not one instance where she made an intelligent argument against any of the ideas the film put forth. But, I'm not going to be a troll, or say bad things about this author. That is not what MLK or Ghandi would do and their ideas on non-violence are very much a part of what our movement stands for. Its hard being in a "fringe" group because when you present new, radical ideas people have these automatic psychological defenses because they feel that these paradigm shifts "destroy" their identity. Remember, slavery was once an accepted institution and was supported by the elite interest of course, but also the intellectual culture as well as the poor whites in the south that didn't even own slaves.
Just like in the 18th and 19th centuries where people had a value system disorder we have one today. And when I say that I'm not pointing fingers at people and calling them greedy, hedonistic, evil people that should be ashamed of themselves. Everyone, me, you, are victims of the culture we live in. For example, I assume many people here are not racist and view others that hold that view point to be atrocious and despicable. But, that person in all likelihood grew up with bigots for parents that indoctrinated them at a young, vulnerable age. They are victims of a sub-culture and need help. Now, you may say that you are too intellectual and conscious enough to be above the influence of culture. How many of you have bought or accepted a diamond ring from a fiance? Diamonds are extracted by exploited, poor Africans through a powerful monopoly. A lot of diamonds have blood on them. But, Madison Ave and our culture believe that a shiny rock is necessary for love when it causes so much harm. Are you a bad person because of this? No, victim of culture
I'm not completely dismissing your objections, but I think you are painting some broad strokes. First, I personally and many in the Zeitgeist Movement do not see ALL politicians and CEOs as evil, corrupt people. But, the fact of the matter remains that if that said CEO can not deliver profits to his shareholders he will be replaced by someone who will. How can the CEO of Shell Oil advocate a resource based economy when the idea of energy abundance would practically eliminate his company, employees, and money from the shareholders?
Now I understand this idea with empty promotion. Where all we do is advocate, advocate, advocate with no real practical plan for a transition or final product. But, the fact remains that none of this can happen without changing the zeitgeist. This isn't some cult using manipulative practices to create an army of drones. The entire fucking idea is based on the scientific method. And these ideas are inherently falsifiable. Joesph and Frescoe have stated this a million times.
Now back to the idea of empty promotion where we create what you deemed a "green fatigue". Ok, one reason that has happened with respect to the environmental movement is that their ideas do not address the root cause of the problem they are fighting against. Its all idealism and like you said a bullshit mentality of I'm saving the world. But, the zeitgeist movement does address root causes and uses critical thought to try and solve these problems. Is it perfect? No, but it has the right mentality. As for the means to spread the word, Joesph has repeatably said that the Zeitgeist Movement isn't going to wave signs in front of buildings. He wants the movement to have practical projects that gives us creditability.
Although a major project hasn't been announced it doesn't mean that it won't in the future. The fact remains that step one is education. The more people we have, the best chances we have at real social change.
I'm sorry to keep ranting, but as my favorite movie quote of all time says, "what we have here is a failure to communicate." I think skepticism is very, very healthy. As is critical thought and not making any assumptions. That being said there are many people in these comments that are making assumptions about the leaders of the movement and the movement itself. Was Martin Luther Kings "followers" part of a cult?
It just seems to me that in the current society we live in where corruption is an everyday norm and people are saturated in the media with con artist selling bogus medical cures or what not, that we have this tendency to make surface associations with the selling of anything, including new ideas. Like I said before, skepticism is a very good thing and no one should do anything blindly. But, skepticism should not turn into cynicism where every small group seeking social change is "fringe" or a cult and the leaders always have dark, ulterior motives. Just because 90% of the shit out there has these qualities doesn't mean it all does. That is why you see these kind of surface associations with the zeitgeist movement like in this article and in the comments in my opinion.
From what I can tell from a surface standpoint, as that is all I can go off right now, this author has constructed a paradigm of her world view where antisemitism is a main frame of reference she uses when she comes into contact with anything that isn't mainstream or "normal" in her eyes. Its the same kind of mentality of the new world order crowd. They see the movement as globalist, and automatically revert to the lens in which they see the wo6rld, the NWO, and thus place an assumption that the movement is a backdoor route to the NWO.
The fact of the matter is that its really F#cking hard to trust people in this world. Because you can never, truly, 100% know their true intentions just as they can't with you. So call me crazy for wanting a system where this isn't the norm.
I'm sorry this review is based on loaded rhetoric,
Jewish issues are sensitive ones, ones which are very over-sensitised in western culture as is black culture and slavery. In fact most nationalistic or cultural are susceptible to this.
Any reference to the Zeitgest movement as being "the first Internet-based apocalyptic cult, centered around a doomsday-proclaiming film and an ideology filled with classic anti-Semitic tropes" IN THE HEADLINE is going to immediately going to make the average reader think there is an anti-semitic agenda!
Yes she goes on to qualify this in a very half baked manner but this review is anything but neutral or fair, it seeks to portray a picture of the movement which is very negative and ill informed. Moreover there is no review of the latest film at all. The movement is not ideological (it has ideas) it is emergent. Also there is the erroneous assumption that people are inherently evil and good, that is to say if Peter used a quote from someone who was known to have anti-semitic opinions does that mean that everything that person says is a) valueless and b) has an inherent subtext of anti-semitism
I think that Brenton has a point with language though, most language use is full of inherent stupidities and this review is not exempt from this, see below
a) Dualism – 2 valued logic of mutually exclusive opposites
b) Absolutism – exclusivity
c) Reification – Problems with abstractions and the noun structure (loads in the review)
e) The verb 'to be' and it's predominantly incorrect use
f) The incorrect use of the word 'The' again referencing exclusivity i.e. there is only one (the)
If I had the time I would demonstrate around 50 or so of the above errors in the review.
Very well said also Brett! This guy Peter Joseph really gets his message out there. Again, I almost thought I was reading something he wrote!Thanks Michelle for putting this information out there, I think I'm going to go check out the Zeitgeist Movement myself.
"The fact of the matter is that its really F#cking hard to trust people in this world. Because you can never, truly, 100% know their true intentions"
You're going to have to trust someone at some point in this current society. I think if you ever encounter someone, let's say through the movement who seems to be somewhat annoyingly persistent but honest and kind, who may not agree with everything about the movement, but is totally open to its views and understands it on a deeper level, then I think you should give her, I mean whoever a chance, you know? You may be surprised as to how good people really are out there.
@Brett while yes you yourself do not believe the world is black and white,the standpoint of TZM is generally that.I mean why dont you join up with similarly minded charities and NPOs and guide them towards these technologies and solutions rather than isolating yourself from the rest of the world.Why havent you shown groups like greenpeace and those that battle poverty that hydroponics and aeroponics can help solve world hunger and environmental degradation.Why is TZM not joining up with geothermal,solar and algea companies?Why are you not getting help with pliticians in left leaning countries or ones that have a good track record with regards to helping the poor and environment or for that matter famous celebrities that are known philantropists?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVFftqJ5_r0 – here Peter shows the lack of intrest in doing that by slamming people who if informed of an RBE with a solid transition plan as unimportant which is the wrong thing to be doing.
My main qualm is that most of you have this idea in your head that you need to wait for the world to collapse in order for work to start when in fact if actually started doing something now you might prevent or at least lighten the effects of the collapse.There are so many problems with this lets wait until the world collapses and ends to start this new and glorious era that I litterly consider anyone who thinks thats a tangible plan to be delusional.
"Ok, one reason that has happened with respect to the environmental movement is that their ideas do not address the root cause of the problem they are fighting against." – No its because the environmentalist movement largely consists of rich upper class people who drive big cars and live in expensive houses and constantly bombard them them with propaganda over and over again without walking the walk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDEHaISC7Vo – at about 9:50 two of your more prominant members advocate violence
I understand and appreciate your concerns with the associations between anti Semitism and anti nwo because the two notions have been married before in the past. Theories of the illuminati or elite controlling class have often been pointed at the Jews for hateful untrue anti-Semitic purposes. It's also likely that there are a number of ALEX JONES fans or 911 truthers who are fans of this paradigm.
I must assure you however that even if the origin of these movements were founded in early European anti-Semitism or in the case of the 911 conspiracy more recently with certain anti-Zionist groups, most of the Z'ers doesn't have anything more to say about Jewish people than any other demographic. They're humanist in philosophy. Mostly we are people terrified of a fascist tyrannical situation, not completely unlike Nazi Germany, developing within the western power structure fueled by the global prison/survailence/corprate/military industrial complex. Now that technology has increased our ability to move information it seems to be just as much a frontier of openness freedom and hope as it does seem a possibility for massive pervasive control over masses of humans.
The difference Peter's notion of The Venus Proj vs the globalist one world government is that one global system is achieved out of coercion and social stratification as groups continue to fight one another calling themselves socialists, repubs, Muslims, or Jews rather than unifying under their common humanity and same needs for self sustaining ecology. The Venus Proj is more pointing out how humanity could live much better if we all had each other's backs instead of living in a rat race. It argues that resources can and should be utilized in a scientific way. It also argues that a civilization that hands out scholarships with one hand and holds the chains to some pit bulls in the other is not civilized at all. These are the concerns of a generation growing up into ecocide and corporate imperialism, not anti-Semite
Zeitgeist is not anti-Semitic. The movement has a chapter in Israel that is full of well. JEWS! Sheesh this author is so stupid.
Wow, what a stunning display of Ignorance and Bias Projection this article is! Obviously you don't understand the aims of this movement. Go to thevenusproject.com and read the FAQ at the very least. You insult, belittle and throw around Logical Fallacy & Non Sequitur like they're going out of style. You fail to even Define Your Terms and make Prima Facie associations that are intellectually dishonest and belligerent towards a movement that has rigorously defined it's terms, based it's concepts on Empirical Evidence and tries to ERASE petty & irrelevant differences between races, religions & classes. You would profit from reading "The Chalice and The Blade" by Holocaust survivor Riane Eisler. It would help you to figure out where all your shame based biases and ego defenses come from.
To be fair, let me Define My Terms: the word "Religion" comes from the Latin prefix Re meaning "to do again". Ligare is the Latin root word meaning To BIND. "Religion" means "To BIND Again" It is self described Bondage and you are it's unfortunate victim, as are we all.
It is You who are being a Racist, Ms Goldberg. Nationalism/Patriotism is just Racism With A Flag. If you want an Apocalyptic CULT, go to Tabernacle and imbibe freely of the old world Dominator Paradigm that all religions promote to maintain their power. They are twisted Social Control Systems meant to keep the rich rich and the poor servile to them. You have unwittingly become a Voluntary Defender of the Status Quo yourself via your indoctrination. Please find the courage to think outside the box.
This author is a racist & ignorant person. These words made me laugh.. sci-fi planetary communism, new-age techno-utopianism. This author haven't mentioned any of the facts of TZM and TVP. He is managed well enough to throw dirt and sound intellectual by quoting other reporters. He obviously has no solutions for problems and atrocities of this world and tries to pull down TZM just becuase they want a better world. A world without hunger, war, crimes..A world with equality..research now..dont believe this guy..find it for yourself..wake up!!!
Michelle Goldberg does not understand the symbiotic relationship of humans and the world's environment.
Brenton was successful in isolating himself form the movement as well, when he was in the movement he never wanted to correspond with me openly about anything, eventually left.
considering he was managing the au official youtube, i think it was valid for me to adleast speak with him.
I never had a live conversation with him and nether the Melbourne coordinator.
he was also a self proclaimed member of the communications team.
I do not know what Brenton is talking about, but i have no ground whatsoever to faivour his comment, nether confirm his membership- as his membership was mostly virtual.
My name is David Z and i am the Australian Chapter Coordinator
Michelle – that was the most biassed, blinded, negative article and piece of garbage review i have ever heard of 3 powerful documentaries that were meant to open your eyes from the religious dogma that you have been blinded by.
What's it going to take for you to realise and accept the road our society has taken and being gripped by a monetary system is not heading to any real enriching or rewarding future for humanity.
Paul M
I feel sorry for this writer(Michelle Goldberg). She's clearly not thinking. Nothing more than superficial associations. Jews = Money. That's how you understood the information?. Really?.
Cult? Apocalyptic? Are you freaking kidding me?. Is that all you can do? Associate words so you can get people's attention?. This is the stupidest article I've ever read.
I don't understand your logic – you call a film which strips religion down to its skeletal, pre-subjective truth anti-semitic? Riddle me this; how can a film which endeavours to negate the very foundation of religion as we know it have a negative Jewish agenda? Seems a tad pointless, wouldn't you agree?
You seem very trigger happy on labelling a person "left-wing" or a notion "far right-wing", however you are just a glorified label maker, working amongst a sea of other (inferior to yourself, of course) label makers.
Whose afraid of the big black bat? Michelle seems to be.
Demonstrations from Wisconson, to Greece to the Arab world, and somehow I was disrespectful in thinking that Jews aren't the center of the universe or behind a grand conspiracy. You know what, I still don't think Jews control anything. Silly me. No one is to blame for our social stupidity and counter-productive financial system.
If this movie is anti-semetic then so is Christopher Hitchens.
We miss you George Carlin and Frank Zappa!
I just saw the film, and I can say, for the first time I'm hopeful. Zeitgeisters, keep moving foward!
First of all, Zeitgeist is not Marxist/Communist propaganda. There are many more dissimilarities between the Zeitgeist Movement and Communism then there are similarities. Marxism does not at all mention the abolition of money, removal of labor for income, abolition of militaries, politics, militaries or the usage of machines to free humanity from monotonous labor. It does mention destratification, centralized control and removal of private property, but that is where the similarities end. The most important difference to keep in mind is that all Marxist/Communist governments all operate under an umbrella of token exchanges (money) based on scarcity value, which leads to exploitation of working classes by elites.
Secondly, as many others you completely ignore the logical progression of thought that derives the tenants of the Zeitgeist Movement. It is clear our current socioeconomic paradigm is unsustainable while preventing human progress to say the least. It will fail and must be replaced by something else. The global debt based economic system will inevitably collapse because it is a pyramid scheme based on infinite growth which of course is not possible on a planet with finite resources. This is not conspiracy theory. Anyone who truly understands how compounding interest and exponential growth operates as it relates to our monetary system can see where we are headed. We will continue to see more bankruptcies, more unemployment, more poverty and consolidation of wealth and power and I believe a global hyperinflationary depression.
Your argument that Zeitgeist is an anti-Semitic cult is complete nonsense. As you said, Zeitgeist does not say the word Jew in a derogatory light so much as one time, so there should be no anti-Semitic label attached. Any indirect, loose connection between a few members of Zeitgeist and one anti-Semitic group does not mean the movement promotes anti-Semitism.
Well, Michelle, that was ENCHANTING.
Obviously Jewishberg, you clearly have a propensity to project beliefs of your own racial inequality into every story you write.
Readers, you can click on her name at the top to take a look at her other articles.
The only thing that resembles a cult is how you latch on to your religion and nothing else. Too bad I got nothing from this article. No real opposing points but rather straight dismissible of the ideas brought up in the film.
Michelle, please do yourself a service and read your own article and see how foolish you look.
They arte criminals that run a 419 fraud scan for donations since day one of TVP and are not in prison yet for it! TZM is also a terrorist group that uses fear and lies and bait of RBE and ask you die in a bloody war because the fantasy ending of the movie is as far from reality as it can be..as people toss out the other pick up….they say in reality that you must make world war and kill and be killed so they can grab power with this HITLER copy propaganda that made the second world was come to pass.
put them in prison!
@Michelle Why do you state that Zeitgeist was anti-semitic? I didn't see it being anti-semitic at all. But of course it's the easy way out when you don't have real arguments.
Wrong again… I encourage everyone to see all of these documentaries. There is no bigotry, there is no cult, there is no anger, there is only people hoping for a peaceful future for all on the planet. Peter brings an enlightened view of our current economic/social order. One that is far from radical. Take a look at what is going on in the world today, people are tired of being taken advantage of by a system that does not value the advancement of the Human condition.
Peter has brought this forth in his way and people are responding by promoting the ideas. Seems no different than what Mad Ave agencies and big Corps do every day… but, Peter sells nothing and promotes Human values. Why turn this into something ugly? Honestly girl, what is the problem… do you really see hatred around every corner?
Please watch the movies and make an informed decision for yourself.
I've seen all the Zeitgeist movies and they do not seem anti-semetic at all, I don't understand where Goldberg is coming with this notion; but, I am concerned about some facts about Fresco and ideas expressed by Peter Joseph. If someone from the movement could shed some light on the matter it may help to ease my fears that the zeitgeist movement is just another supremacist group under the guise of a progressive movement. Fact: Fresco was a member of the KKK, Peter Joseph was heard live on radio saying that celebration of black history month, and ethnic parades are reverse racism against whites, he called for a white parade…this shit is disturbing considering the number of "black" and people of different ethnic backgrounds that are in support of his ideas and the movement. Why would he say these things at the risk of alienating members? I understand that Fresco states he dismantled the KKK, but where is that data, where is that fact? I admit the movies and the movement itself seems genuinely concerned with the problems of our world and seems to want to change things for everyone's benefit, but just one fuck up like the ones mentioned above could put a dark cloud over your whole movement. So somebody shut me the fuck up PLEASE!
You have to be very self-centered to call "anti-semitic" something where no mention about Jews is ever uttered. Just because the movies decry bankers' undue influence and because some important bankers happen to be Jewish, to imply there is anti-semitism involved is delirious. There is no denying of the destructive role played by international bank in this and other economic crisis. But some people prefer to dispel deserved criticism by summoning traditional bogeymen.
Sorry, Michelle, you have a right to disagree with what TZM advocates, but your piece here is nothing but an endless string of guilt-by-association attacks, baseless smear, and ridiculously twisted facts (TZM a cult? 90% of its members don't even know each other personally. Not much more cultish than any given political party or advocating group).
Seriously, get a grip.
the comments made by PJoseph were taken out of context, I heard him and he didn't mean anything remotely to what you are implying and he didn't call for a white parade, he was just pointing out that blind nationalism will not help move society forward in a direction that will help everyone because it only considers one kind of people at least i think that is what he meant, the movement embraces everone from all different backgrounds.
Michelle, I'm Jewish and I didn't see the last movie of zeitgeist as antisemitic at all.
I did think the first movie was really anti-semitic, but that's because Peter Joseph was generalizing like an idiot putting all the jews in the same bag; sure there are jewish people that steal and conspire, but only just as much as there are christians and muslims who do so as well.
Don't mix that man's ideas with the inspiring thoughts of Fresco (also jewish), who the last Zeitgeist movie is mostly about.
After seeing the movie the scary thing its that all the questions this movie raises will have to be addressed in this century. Like the narrator, I just hope we don't murder each other answering them
What a waste of time that read was… Weird, I actually feel anti-semetic now. Oh wait, that's just my aversion toward fervent paranoid/delusional nationalists.
"What a waste of time that read was… Weird, I actually feel anti-semetic now. Oh wait, that's just my aversion toward fervent paranoid/delusional nationalists"
But you call yourself Neon White…?
An almost excellent article by Michelle Golberg. As soon as I saw the deliberate mix of books
by Jarad Loughner and the repeated use of the word currency I knew where he came from ideologically.
A former friend of the shooter said Laughner was very much into Zeitgeist but that it was
non-political and against both parties. I remembered from watching it years ago that it was political,
as in Tea Party political. Except for the rant against Christianity, based on nonsense, it could have
been a Tea Party Bircher Manifesto.
The obsessions with the Fed Reserve and the income tax are basic to Tea Bircher politics.
An aside:
I can see the hatred for the IRS particularly
after jailing a long distance runner who
bought a house using a liars loan. The guy who
originated liars loans & predatory mortgage lending,
Roland Arnall never went to jail he was made an ambassador.
In fact he generated 50 billion in sub-prime funding as of 2005
with much of it based on liars loans and resold them.
Arnall was so tight with Bush that the Texas Rangers named
their stadium after Arnall's company, (independent mortgage company) Ameriquest.
He was the subject of an FBI report in 2003 that predatory mortgage
lending was a threat to the economy. Attorney's General from 50
states (yes 50) petitioned Cheney/Bush to regulate predatory
mortgage lending inspired liars loans 2004. The FBI and all those AG's KNEW.
Cheney/ Bush refused and allowed 30-1 credit reserves in 2004,
pouring gasoline on the already out of control mortgage fire.
Contrary to the first Zeitgeist film the above events happened.
It is not Barney Pelosi financial cartel Soros (the jews) propaganda.
The situation was already out of control in 2005. It won an
Academy Award this year (the real "Inside Job") and one of those AG's, Elliot Spitzer
forced AIG CEO Maurice Greenberg to resign, the only CEO of a major Corp
forced to resign. This was the real reason Spitzer was nailed.
From the article "Zeitgeist: Moving Forward is silly enough that at times I suspected it was all a put-on…"
I was going to say the same thing about this article. What garbage. Michelle, you should be ashamed. How did the editors actually let this thing out? Unreal. It's a detriment to this whole website.
You say "antisemitism" as though it can never be right to oppose a group of people. Just because we can identify a common heritage amongst a group of criminals doesn't mean we have to enable them. Saying, "You're racist" is not a shield.
Incidentally, try responding to your comment section once in awhile. You look like a coward, and if you can't intelligently defend yourself you look like an idiot.
What a terrible article. Why would this even be approved for publishing? You should feel terrible for writing this.
Oh my god this is among the most moronic thinly-veiled-fundamentalist trite I have seen online from a publication. I mean seriously, if you "criticise" something you are supposed to say where and *HOW* it is wrong; Goldberg here, in a seemingly frantic fit of remarkably shameless dishonesty, spews outright lies about the "Where" part and completely ignores the "how".
Maybe I will cut her some slack, intellection and honesty may very well appear "anti-Semitic" to her.
If i didn't know better, after reading this, i'd think the current state of things is just perfect.
This writer makes so many prima facie associations, New World Order, Anti semitic..
And by the way the collapse is already happening, just look around.
I'd rather at least listen to someone like Jacque who has more than 70 years of experience than to someone who obviously has shown can only look at the surface.
But keep dreaming, keep listening to music, watchin football, maybe BBC, and dont forget going to church on sundays….
Don't worry America, everything's fine
Every time that someone "debunks" any of the Zeitgeist-movies, it ALWAYS turns out to been made by a nutcase. Or a very very religious FANATIC person.
No different this time, obviously.
What makes me disturbed when I read this article, is that its so wrong everywere. Almost nothing is backed up with facts here.
At least, most people commenting this "rubbish" (sorry to say, but I'm just honest) are much more intelligent than the writer (Michelle).
I'm sorry I'm beeing rude here, but, as I said earlier, I'm just trying to be true and honest about the article.
Michelle you are a douchebag..peter joseph and the zeitgiest movement are trying to make things better for us..there are no hidden agendas..and if you actually paid attention to what he says with an open mind then you will understand..and if u dont understand then i dont think you want this world to become better..you sadist..just shut your noise hole and listen for once..
I was looking for such an outstanding post. Thanks for sharing.nanny qualifications
Anti semitic???Hahahaa..did the writer saw Addendum, Zeitgeist Moving Forward and tones of lectures of the movement? This text is completly made by falacies. Sorry. Best regards to all..
Thanks for this very informative critical article, Michelle Goldberg. I watched some of the movies and background and knew a little bit about the criticism, but this was some more valuable information.
By the way: Just the sheer amount and the tone of many of the comments proof one claim: Cult – not able to deal with any critizism, attacking and discediting the writer personally without knowing her at all, using rude language…the only truth is "the movement" and nobody is allowed to have a critical view of it. Although I share many individual ideas that pop up in "the movement" – no ideological construct "Zeitgeist" for me, thanks.
So sick of hearing about the poor jews and how anything anti-semitic is so evil.
How come its not racist to abuse white people and culture?
How come the jewish people have been expelled 107 times? Is this some "error" in white people? They're been expelled 107 times throughout history by almost every culture on earth, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO WORKERS, AND ARE PARASITES.
Michelle Goldberg, you are a liar. The Zeitgeist movement is opposed to anything resembling a cult, and any adult who watches the film with an open mind can clearly see this. Why would a Sephardic Jew such as Jacque Fresco associate with people who are anti-semitic? You should be ashamed of yourself, Michelle Goldberg.
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I've said that least 1174865 times. The problem this like that is they are just too compilcated for the average bird, if you know what I mean
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Louis had Mary PR machine hammered last year in Ireland and still only managed fifth so even with Ireland votes in or out will it really make a difference for the win? The votes Eoin Quig got were well impresive when revealed though.
I like to consider myself an open minded person and while there is an amount of conspiracy hysteria involved in the Zeitgiest documentaries, there is one unavoidable fact that emerges from all of them. That is the the monetary system as we know it is doomed to failure. It's just a matter of when. Man can't create synthetic steel, water, oil etc. These resources WILL run out eventually and as our economic system is based entirely on the consumption of these it has to fail. Then what will we do? With No TV's, Cars, etc. We will be left with no option but to return to a sustainable lifestyle i.e organic farming. Some will call me a communist among other things which is a natural reaction from people who really don't grasp the long term consequences of our lifestyle as a species. I have no political agenda here, I'm just one of many people facing up the facts.
TZM has had a very active chapter in Israel for a long time and have just recently hosted a very successful, huge event in Tel Aviv. Most members there are interested in sustainability, technology, social sciences etc. Antisemitism doesn't come into it.
Alarmist, subjective, prima facie and ultimately fallacious commentaries such as this effort by Michelle Goldberg do nothing to eradicate antisemitism. It's things like this which promote it, feed off the notion of it and keep us divided.
Believe it at your mind's risk.
Even a modicum of research and critical thinking could have avoided this embarrassing propaganda. Peace to all.
I can make my own mind up about anti semitism thank you SMH. Its the intent implied that reveals any racist and regarding TZM thats still to be proved. If you're not Jewish you hardly see any anti semitism anywhere, if you are Jewish you sometimes see it where non exists but it does exist and Michelle Goldberg obviously feels strongly enough to write about it here. I don't think I've read any article anywhere that has created such an avalanche of negative feedback as this one, I'm amazed. Its just a stupid documentary series, isn't it?
A cult? Yeah, but lesser than Judaism. Oh, I see now! Jews are nothing without banks and money. No wonder the smear campaign.
JEWISH New & Politics… What else do I expect? LOL
It's sad to see someone so highly educated so ignorant. Oh well it's the media industry. You know, get a masters degree, write some books, rub shoulders with some famous people, get paid and enjoy life. Get delusional thinking that it's a hard-earned life, that I deserved this, and look down on other races, people of 3rd world countries who were being continuously exploited by the same people and corporations that everyone else put on the altar or the covers of some airbushed, overpriced magazines.
And when someone tries to educate people on what's wrong with the world, I'd write an article to ridicule them because I don't want to see the world gets better. That would make me not better than all those people I've looked down on all my life! OMG! I can't let that happen! Must write! Must ridicule!
And all the name callers here, real matured guys. Real matured.
this article is laughable. not worth reading or taking seriously. typical sensationalizing scare-tactics and exploitation of social paranoia, in the midst of likely very intentional and willful ignorance regarding what the zeitgeist movement is actually about. michelle, you have seriously failed as an intellectual, and as a positive contributor to society and social well-being. congratulations.
This artical is purposely not touching on the real issuses and priorities of TZM/TVP. This is disgusting how it protrays them. These orgs are completely NONPROFIT and don't support anything that gets in the way of equality such as war, famine, etc. And this author calls them a "cult"? I would take this article with a truck full of salt and let people see what it's really about. Again this article makes me sick
Whoa!! This is the most twisted, biased, and flat out ignorant report on TMZ I've ever encountered. This isn't even a critique. Its just a bunch of wild leaps of association and name calling. Its completely natural to have objections to what TMZ advocates. In fact questioning is great for inspiring critical thinking. But seriously, what the hell is the point of this article? Myself, being well informed on what TZM is, would like to point out that this Michelle Goldberg is either 1: ignorant about what TZM really is so she is making wild leaps of association and engaging in stereotyping as a way to relay information she doesn't understand or 2: she is willfully distorting information as a means to debunk that which she finds threatening to her culturally defined worldview. Either way this article is completely devoid of any critical analysis So I encourage anyone reading to look into the zeitgeist movement themselves and make your own decisions.
Or you're just ignorant and angry that things you didn't know about your crackpot movement are getting exposure. Nice cult catch phrases.
Within the confines of an online article ,Goldberg concludes that Zeitgeist is an online cult that uses anti semitic conditioning in a similar way as others have done in the past . I found the documentaries worrying simply because so many people take them seriously and cannot recognize propoganda and brainwashing when it stares them in the face. One of the comments here argues that it cant possibly be anti semitic if it doesnt once mention the Jews, are you serious Froy? TZM may or may not be a cult but its certainly got a lot of passionate supporters who cant tolerate a critical article that appears in a Jewish magazine.
Very biased, distorted and inaccurate story, as to be expected from a religious based website. Well done.
Readers: For real information and to decide for yourself see a wealth of information: http://pear.ly/bmesX
Okay. No. No no no no no no no!
Have you even watched the movies? I'm just sayin', not everything TZM claims is true, especially about the religion part in the first movie, but reality is that you won't find many other surprinsingly honnest documentaries as this one. This is no "cult", nor "sect, nor "techno-utopian communist conspiracy (^^ made me laugh!)", TZM members only show a vision of what society could be without corruption and hate.
As of to "anti-semitic", I'm damn proud to be jewish and I am offensed to read this.
Typically conservative-jewish trash arguments by ignorance. I mean, if you're not jewish or pro-sionist, you MUST hate jews, right?….
May peace come to your minds
I thought that the article was very balanced. The first Zeitgeist movie was very antisemitic. The most recent one is not antisemitic. However, it does perpetuate the Illuminati conspiracy that "bankers" (originally conceived as Jews) have taken over the world. In that sense, the latest movie continues with its original antisemitic assumptions without making them explicit.
Michelle, oh Michelle.
Why the veil of ignorance Michelle?
This a is really, really poor article. The Zeitgeisters are anti-Semitic? They are a cult? Is that the best you can do? Fear mongering? I can take them apart by attacking their philosophy of morality and economics with well reasoned arguments.
This author is intellectually lazy, and I use the word "intellectually" very loosely. The author, obviously, does not know how to formulate a rational argument.
If the author thinks the Zeitgeisters are anti-Semitic, as a group, he really needs to get out more. I suggest, that if he wants to see what *real* anti-Semitism looks like, he should try http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/blog/andie531/was-ayn-rand-bolshevik-mole'. That is what REAL antisemitism looks like.
There is real antisemitism out there that really needs to be addressed. The Zeitgeisters are just a bunch of lazy college kids that don't want to work. Their economic model is based on a "resource-based economy" (RBE), AKA "post-scarcity". It is very easy to refute their positions on economics, ethics and morality.
The Zeitgeist movement doesn't concern ANY religion. But like others have said… if you are really basing your entire article on a STEREOTYPE that Jews = Money… and Zeitgeist are for no money… then Zeitgeist must be against Jews? That is really how you came to that conclusion? This is what the Zeitgeist movement is all about… it's about showing people how they have been conditioned to act and respond in society is completely flawed.
Michelle you are way off you should research more and read and ask questions. This article is probably the worst piece of literature, review i have read on zt. joining racism in ZT, they dont believe in differences in races and color its all the environment Michelle 2 thumbs down for you for being ignorant and not doing proper research.
If anything is "cult-like" it is this article and the Youtube video that referenced it where comments and ratings have been disabled.
So, Fresco is a Jew who promotes anti-semitism for his own interest. What else is not new? Btw, in every statement he makes there is a blatant emphasis on demonizing
Christianity and 'other' religions. Being 'semitic' most of the
populations in the Middle East, included Arab Muslims, it has to be
noted that never he makes a point against his own extraction and
religion, Judaism. I think it is very clear what his game is.
So, Fresco is a Jew who promotes anti-semitism for his own interest. What else is not new? Btw, in every statement he makes there is a blatant emphasis on demonizing
Christianity and 'other' religions. Being 'semitic' most of the
populations in the Middle East, included Arab Muslims, it has to be
noted that never he makes a point against his own extraction and
religion, Judaism. I think it is very clear what his game is, as well as that of the author of this article.
The author loses herself in a self-constructed nebula of politics, polemic and religion to the point that she misses the central premises suggested in the Zeitgeist movement. Premises which there is thorough scientific evidence for, peer-reviewed and reproducible.
* The paramount characteristic of so-called human nature is its plasticity. Very little is set in stone at birth and beyond. The rate of greed, violence, addiction (including to money and power) and other disorders is a direct result of the socioeconomic environment. The myth that certain behaviours are genetic is an excuse to keep things the way they are.
* Monetary reward is no motivator for cognitive tasks. It can in fact impede intellectual performance.
* Cooperation yields more consistent and plausible results than competition. Repeatedly proven in numerous studies.
* The higher the equality in a country the higher the rate of innovation, quality education, health and general quality of life and the lower crime, violence, teenage pregnancy and other social disorders.
* The technology for automation of mundane tasks, for maximising efficiency and sustainability and for transitioning to 100% renewable energy exists today.
Facts which economists, politicians and politically biased armchair "scientists" ignore or vehemently deny as they don't fit into their agenda.
For a TZM critic to have any credibility they have to challenge the above mentioned points in scientific detail, instead of wiping them under the rug. Any reason why this is not being done can be found in science illiteracy and politics. Politics, opinion and religion are constructs TZM does not adhere to as they don't contribute anything constructive to an efficient, equitable and sustainable economy.
Wait – the conclusion of "antisemitism" is based on the usefulness of a speech to dissuade war of a eugenist sympathizer? How many historical 9/11 speeches are there from which to point out irony? Fine. Perhaps the context of Lindy should have been evaluated, but the ad hominem of suggesting that everything lindberg is suddenly proof of antisemitism is tenuous at best.
Equating the 3rd chapter to antisemitism is like saying that the war on drugs is a war against black men, or against men for that matter — would be equivalently valid.
I appreciate your excellent writing and much of your critique — but your main posit can only be characterized as "jewish paranoia".
Were you offended by Bulworth?
I'm a reasonably astute person yet at no point did I even think "jew(s) dun it" ever occurred in my mind. Ever.
I'm too lazy to assess your claim of Mullins, but trust your claim for the sake of argument…that he's antisemitic. But if the goal of all this was to [b]e antisemitic, why wasn't it pervasive, overarching and sufficiently obvious/persuasive to me? Or anyone else I've ever known who's seen it?
If the only people who notice it to be antisemitic are jewish, and a sephardic jew is one of his idols, and no one I've known has been persuaded in to antisemitism from it — then how effective is it as an instrument of antisemitism?
Disregarding this flaw, I rather enjoyed the rest of the review.
My favorite comments (of those I read)…
thorsthetroll: "The author seems to think talking about a corrupt political and monied class will translate into violence against Jews."
You say "antisemitism" as though it can never be right to oppose a group of people.
Just because we can identify a common heritage amongst a group of criminals…doesn't mean we have to enable them. Saying, "You're racist" is not a shield.
Froy: You have to be very self-centered to call "anti-semitic" something where no mention about Jews is ever uttered. Just because the movies decry bankers' undue influence and because some important bankers happen to be Jewish, to imply there is anti-semitism involved is delirious. There is no denying of the destructive role played by international bank in this and other economic crisis. But some people prefer to dispel deserved criticism by summoning traditional bogeymen.
Sorry, Michelle, you have a right to disagree with what TZM advocates, but your piece here is nothing but an endless string of guilt-by-association attacks, baseless smear, and ridiculously twisted facts (TZM a cult? 90% of its members don't even know each other personally. Not much more cultish than any given political party or advocating group).
Seriously, get a grip.
Yeah, that's right, hang on to that currency based capitalism and keep buying and consuming. Good goy.
A Jewish news website writer has the cheek to call THAT a cult? Wow. Find a mirror. '"There isn't one thing in that film that doesn't come from a source." True enough. The problem is what the sources are.'
"True enough. The problem is what the sources are."
That is some debunk… you blew my far right-wing, Anti-Semitic, prejudicial, Nazi, anarchist, false idol worshiping, paranoid little mind with that one. (I don't have enough free time in the day to read that hilarious piece again to find all the ignorant and arrogant things you had to associate with everyone who disagrees with your views, so i will leave it at that)
So sorry to find YOU were offended by sources to difficult for you to manipulate.
Grow a second brain cell and rub it together with the first until you achieve spontaneous combustion. It would be a great help.
Many thanks,
A loving reader of your delightfully biased opinion.
When will the little Jew stop taking it so personally? Maybe it is all that guilt and shame when they try to control the media but fail to exploit enough people.
Jesus Christ loves even the fool and the crook.
Please be slightly less biased. You must perfect that. Using terms like "college dropout" implies personal attacks which many people know is just low ball.
When I watched this Mrs Goldberg, I wondered what you were watching to derive at your report. It doesn't seem like your attention span lasted 2 hours let alone 2 minutes.
When you state silly remarks such as no sources – well, if you really watched this movie, you may have noted the various Scientists, actual literature and other first and second hand accounts that were utilized.
It's obviously true about Jews then and you just cemented it. You are a paranoid, xenophobic and racist group.
Forget the holocaust, move on. Stop using the media to spread your lies. Haven't there been enough harm and hatred without more lies being spread to through the media.
This is what upset Hitler a lot and even he described how Jews area poison.
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