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Boromir's Guide to Deck Construction, Part One
A Lord of the Rings: The Card Game spotlight on successful solo play |
The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game | Published 09 January 2012 |
"Believe not that in the land of Gondor the blood of Númenor is spent, nor all its pride and dignity forgotten. By our valour the wild folk of the East are still restrained, and the terror of Morgul kept at bay; and thus alone are peace and freedom maintained in the lands behind us, bulwark of the West."
–Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring
One of the reasons The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game has entertained so many fans and enjoyed a great deal of success is because it appeals to people across a range of player archetypes–Bilbo, Pippin, and Boromir alike. The game's narrative structure makes it easy to find a story in every game. Because it's a Living Card Game, novelty seekers can find new cards to try in their decks and new challenges to face with each monthly release, and enough of the scenarios and their enemies pose sufficient threat to challenge the hardcore Boromirs, who seek glory through conquest. In fact, some of us are still waiting for the combination of cards that will allow us to beat Escape from Dol Guldur solo with a measure of consistency.
The lone traveler's journey
The game has also found a good measure of success due to its rich solitaire play, but while confronting the challenges of Middle-earth may lead to memorable game experiences, they can also frustrate players with less experience in games with deck construction. The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game is unique among these games in that players compete against the forces of Shadow, as controlled by an encounter deck and its artificial intelligence. Still, the encounter deck has its fair share of devious tricks and an arsenal of deadly weapons. Accordingly, it is no simple thing to master the encounter deck and succeed at your quests.
Now that the Khazad-dûm Expansion has arrived, players will face a whole host of new challenges, and some have already wondered how they will fare against the goblin hordes of Moria.
Today, then, we begin a three-part series of deck-building tutorials aimed at the new solo player, but one that should contain helpful information (and reminders) for players of all experience levels.
Sharpening your blade
There's much to be said for the decisions you make while playing a game, but we begin any conversation about success in a card game by looking at the deck.
While players may find many different card combinations and ways to approach the challenges before them, there are a number of larger, universal concerns that touch upon deck-building in any game, including The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game. No matter the scenario you intend to conquer, you'll want to consider how your deck may provide you with action advantage, card advantage, and resource acceleration. Additionally, every card designer at some point talks about "synergy," and it's important to be able to recognize whether or not your deck is filled with synergies between cards, or if it's a combination of 50 cards all seeking to do their own thing. Meanwhile, each card game introduces its own game-specific concerns, and in The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game, it's always worth trying to maintain as low a starting threat as possible, and including some means of reducing it should it start to rise.
Today, we'll go into a bit more depth about action advantage and card advantage.
Action advantage
Action advantage refers, generally, to the idea that you can do more than your opponent each turn. In a head-to-head game, like A Game of Thrones: The Card Game, you might gain action advantage through "board control" or a stronger "board position." In short, if you have more and stronger characters on the table than your opponent, you're more likely to win challenges and the game. In The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game, your heroes are limited in what they can do by the number of times they can exhaust. Do you choose to quest with your hero, defend, attack, or exhaust to use a special ability? Each of these is an "action," and the more actions you can take, the better.
Part of the solution is to include allies. A lot of allies. Many successful decks are almost half full of allies. Allies who can quest allow your heroes to attack or defend. Allies who block enemies for your heroes allow your heroes to quest or attack. Allies are good and help you gain action advantage.
Another part of the solution is to build your deck around heroes who can ready themselves. Aragorn (Core Set, 1), Prince Imrahil (A Journey to Rhosgobel, 50), and Boromir (The Dead Marshes, 95) all come to your fellowship with built-in means of readying themselves. Still, there are other means of readying your heroes. Spirit heroes can help others find Unexpected Courage (Core Set, 57) or recruit a Westfold Horse-Breaker (The Hunt for Gollum, 6), and now, with the release of Khazad-dûm, your Dwarf heroes can get a boost from the Erebor Record Keeper (Khazad-dûm, 11).
Khazad-dûm introduces another card that clever players may use to find action advantage, Ever Onward (Khazad-dûm, 5). Certainly not the most glamorous of cards, Ever Onward may appear at first glance as though it's merely a safety net. However, if you know you won't fall deeper into threat by failing at your quest, Ever Onward can afford you a single turn in which for three-cost, all your characters remain ready to confront the enemies with which they are engaged, allowing you to withhold them from questing and assign them, instead, to defense and attack.
You can even find action advantage from cards that don't provide you with extra actions but can let you "cheat" around the need to take actions. For example, Dúnhere (Core Set, 9) and Quick Strike (Core Set, 35) can let you attack enemies without first having to defend against them. They can save you the need to heal your characters later, prevent nasty shadow effects from resolving, and free you to focus on questing successfully.
Card advantage
Card advantage comes primarily in four forms. One is card draw. The more cards you can draw, the more options you hold in your hands. Another is subtler but no less effective, and that is the ability to do more with fewer cards. The final routes to card advantage are search and recursion.
There are only a handful of cards in The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game that accelerate card draw, and the best of them are ubiquitous among top players. Beravor (Core Set, 12) almost always receives the first copy (or two, or three) of Unexpected Courage when she's present in the party. While it may seem like a waste of an action to exhaust her to draw cards rather than quest, defend, or attack, nothing could be further from the truth. Card draw is the backbone of versatility. The more cards you hold in your hand, the likelier you'll be able to find the perfect response to any threat. Furthermore, if another of your heroes is a Protector of Lórien (Core Set, 70), you can convert Beravor's card draw directly into extra Willpower toward the quest. Bilbo (The Hunt for Gollum, 1), Gléowine (Core Set, 62), and Ancient Mathom (A Journey to Rhosgobel, 56) also provide excellent card draw, as can Gandalf (Core Set, 73), when he isn't busy wounding enemies or lowering your threat.
Gandalf's versatility serves as an excellent illustration of the second type of card advantage. Not only is he a powerful ally with tremendous benefits while questing, defending, or attacking, but he also offers your party the pick of his three exceptional abilities whenever he comes into play. At five cost, he's not cheap, but the combination of Gandalf and Sneak Attack (Core Set, 23), both reduces the wizard's cost and allows you to play him more times. This combination offers classic card advantage. Dwalin (Khazad-dûm, 1) offers similar card advantage with his ability to reduce your threat each time he defeats an Orc. The mines of Moria are filled with Orcs, after all, and if you can boost his strength, Dwalin can both clear away your enemies and control your threat, saving you a card slot you might otherwise spend on The Galadhrim's Greeting (Core Set, 46).
Finally, cards that search your deck, reorder the cards on top of your deck, or pull other cards out of your discard pile may not provide you with more options in your hand, but they may ensure you hold the right cards. Dwarven Tomb (Core Set, 53) can be as good as any Spirit card in your discard pile. Gildor Inglorion (The Hills of Emyn Muil, 79) is good not only for his excellent statistics; his ability to manipulate the top three cards of your deck can help you find the cards you need earlier than you would otherwise. Gildor's search ability can also ensure the success of your Zigil Miner (Khazad-dûm, 9), leading to rapid resource acceleration… a fundamental of deck-building at which we will take a look next week!
Next week: We'll explore the importance of resource acceleration and synergy, and we'll look at more cards from Khazad-dûm and The Redhorn Gate!
The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game is a cooperative card game that puts 1-2 players (or up to four with an additional Core Set) in control of the most powerful characters and artifacts of Middle-earth. Players will select heroes, gather allies, acquire artifacts, and coordinate their efforts to face Middle-earth's most dangerous fiends. The Living Card Game format allows players to customize their gaming experience with monthly Adventure Pack expansions to the core game.
Great article and a must for newcomers to the world of the LCG like me.
one more thing to add.you guys at fantasy flight are doing an Amazing job with lotr and agot. the amount of thought and planning that goes into these. and to release something every month. to make a fun, balanced, challenging game and to make it appeal to a varety of players. hats off to you guys. genius. and thank you Nate French.
by the way. if you don't have massing at osgiliath- get it! this is not a plug for fantasy. you'll hate me at first(probably the first dozen games or so.)
I liked the premade decks they'd give you with agot when you bought the deluxe expansions. gave you a feel of how a deck should be built. (i wish they sill would, especially for new players or casual players. maybe fantasy could do it for lotr. ) how it needed to be balanced(resource, allies, events, attachments.) I liked the point in this article- Synergy. think of a theme. (themes aren't always the most effective but they make the game more interesting and fun.) or look at the scenarios. do i need to do alot of questing. do i need to get rid of alot of enemies. how strong are the enemies.( if you're doing a quest with hardly any orcs- would you put in a 4 pt. orc slayer?- no.) make the cards work together with a purpose you have in mind for the scenario. massing at osgiliath seemed impossible the first few times soloing. but once you get the feel of the scenario straight in your head you begin to understand what you got to do. still very challenging. but it then becomes fun. dol guldur on the other hand. i only bother with that 2 player. still waiting for the cards.
roll on next week...back to tasty previews
I mostly play solo game cose is really challenge and interesting. But then sometimes when you play 2 players game is get feelings the game is to easy........ In 3 players game is like a walk in the park. So I happy Khazad-Dum Change it!
Funny. Last night I played solo again and got smashed by the encounter deck (and it was only Flies and Spiders). I was just complaining to my brother today about how I don't have the skills to make good decks. Of course, having more than the Core Set would be a great boon as well . . .
.......I hoped for a preview of Redhorn Gate......
Great article, thanks.
Having played a little bit now I'm really looking forward to playing some solo games to get a better 'feel' for the strategies. Any help/tips for solo play are greatly appreciated.
Also, any chance of hints or guidelines on writing our own scenario's? I think this would add a great deal of replayability to the game - not that it's really lacking anyway.
Not sure if it was deliberate, but I like how Tiziano made Boromir resemble Eddard Stark as he appears in his Tower of the Hand version. ^_^
Excellent article!
I'm really enjoying building decks for this game, and insight to the basics of deckbuilding are always appreciated. Couple more unique card interactions and maybe some color-combination suggestions would be appreciated!


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I am having issue with autocad with .net addin.
Here is the scenario :
I am showing model up of wpf application on autocad application.
As am showing wpf application as model popup,Once i opne the model popups , autocad applications is in disable mode untill wpf model pop up closed. This is working fine.
But, while doing any operations in wpf model pupup, if wpf addin is throughs any exception
Wpf model is in open,Autocad is getting enabled but is should not enable.,
Please help me on this.
Hi Raman,
I'n very sorry, but I don't understand your question. Please would you rewrite it more expansively. Also, providing a small sample to demonstrate the problem will help the people on this forum better understand your problem.
Please find the attachment with below details
1. Project -- solution structure with two projects.
2. Netload -- Net loading the autocad dll
3. showmodelpopup - displaying popup using below code snippet
publicvoid ShowModelPopUp()
{ newModelPopUpViewModel().ShowModelPopUP(); }
4. Execeptionmessagefrom autocad -- Getting autocad error message
5. EditingAutocad -- Able to access autocad menu bar, even though model pup up is in open state.
I am facing issue as shown in image 4 (Execeptionmessagefrom). When ever some error throws from autocad main application. i will get access to autocad application access, even though model popop is open state.
I don't allow to access autocad application access, when model popup is in open state
Please help me on this.
The only files you've posted so far are image files.
I woudln't expect much in the way of help without showing the code (and when I say 'show', I don't mean an image showing the code).
I am here with sample project for explaining the issue.
Net load the given sample project into autocad application and given the command as "ShowModelPopUp"
We can see one model pop up with Button and some text.
On click of the button("Rise Unhandled exception"). Autocad application throws an exception message.
After closing the autocad error message box, I am able to access autocad application, even though the model pop up is in open state., Actually i should not allow user to access autocad application and show model pop up.
Please guide me on this.
Hello Raman,
The project that you shared is not in a buildable form. So cant really try to reproduce that behavior.
If you are trying to show a WPF window inside AutoCAD as a modal window then you must be using :
Also, I fail to understand the reason why it is so important for you to have this modal behavior when there is an exception. If there is an exception, AutoCAD will try and want to grab the user's attention to submit a CER which is mostly what a user would want to do in such a scenario.
Thanks for your response on this issue.
As you have mentioned above post, I have used below statement for opening model pop up
Now, on getting error, model popup is not minimizing , that's what I am excepting.
One issue here is, even though, model pop up is open on AutoCAD, I am able to access AutoCAD tool bar, that should not be.
Please help me on this issue
Can you post some code showing the error?
Also why can't you use a palette? I have programs that bring up palettes automatically while in a command and automatically disappear when the comment ends. If you want i can post some code.
I am here with sample project.
Please netload the dll named "IssuewWithModelPopup.dll"
After loading above dll to autocad application
Enter command as "SHOWAUTOCADMODELPOPUP"
We will get one popup with button text "Rise Unhandled exception".
On Click of button we will get autocad exception dialog.
Once i closed, autocad exception dialog,
Autocad is getting enabled but is should not enable.,
Please help me on this.
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subset: commoncrawl


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The Fells
Lynn Woods
Blue Hills
The Massachusetts Department of Conservation and Recreation has an excellent site with all kinds of information here. Be sure to check out their trail map section here.
From anywhere in the boston area, get on rt 2 and head west. You will be on rt 2 for about 1:15. Your will take the exit for rt 202 towards Amherst (its the second exit with the 202 markings). Upon getting off of the highway, take a right off of the exit ramp and you're on 202 towards Amherst, stay on this windy road for about 25 minutes. Take Amherst road on your right at the second set of blinking yellow lights - It turns into Pelham rd. once your in Amherst, and out of Pelham. Follow this road for about 20 minutes. Your getting close once you pass a small resovoir on your left and then a small church on your right. After about another mile and a half after the church, there will be a hard-to-see little parking lot on the right at the bottom of the hill your coming down. Thats our meeting place, the Main parking lot for Amethyst brook.
We rode the Robert Frost trail from Amethyst Brook up to the Rock Garden and across the range on the Robert Frost trail till we met up with the Mt Orient trail where we ascended some more (this whole first 4 miles were uphill) where we descended a little bit to the MT Orient lookout. We took lunch and descended into Buffum Falls cons. Area which we sprinted through to the foot of mt Lincoln. We ascended the Light Side trail of Mt lincoln and then flew down the DARK SIDE trail. We bounced out onto Pelham rd. and then took a mile or so rode descent right back to the parking lot. The official rage onboard computer said our total trip distance was 12 miles. Our time was about 3 hours, and our total vertical gain was about 2000ft (roughly).
Coming from the south, take Exit 9N from Interstate 93 and follow Route 28 north for 11 miles to Deerfield Road, marked by a large brown sign for Bear Brook state park. the toll booth is 1 mile ahead on Deerfield Road, and Podunk Road is 2 miles beyond on the right, after a small cemetary.
I got these directions out of the book Mt. Biking New Hampshire by Stuart Johnstone. It is a decent book with nice maps and descriptions about places. The book says that an entrance fee is charged during the peak seasons, Spring/Summer. There is parking at Podunk Rd, which looks to be in the center of the park. There are about 10,000 acres, and about 30 miles of trails, i think a map would be recommended. Good luck! and have fun!
From Boston take Rte 93 North (staying right at the Rte 93/Rte 293 split in NH). Take Exit #9 for Rte 28/Rte 3 (Hookset). The ramp goes right at the end putting you on Rte 28/Rte 3. Stay on this road for 7.5 miles and take a right, remaining on Rte 28 (this is where Rte's 3 and 28 split off - also, there's a small brown sign for the park).
Go about 2.5 miles down Rte 28 and the entrance to Bear Brook State Park will be on your right (just past the Bear Brook trailer park).
About one mile down as you drive into the park you'll have to pay a fee at the ranger station (small, outhouse-sized building on your right). After the ranger station, you'll continue on down that road for about another two miles. When you pass the cemetery get ready to take a right onto Podunk road (I think there's one of those tiny center-islands at this turn with a flower pot on it). Then take a quick right (150 yards from the turn on to Podunk) into the mountain biker/hiker/winter parking lot. If you start going up a hill on a dirt road you missed the turn into the parking lot.
Just to set the record straight, there's way more than 30 miles of trails at Bear Brook. And you should definitely have a map if you're unfamiliar with the park. If you like a good mix of fast and somewhat technical singletrack, then this is a great place to ride. Actually, this is a great place to ride. Period.
The riding in Belmont is made up of 3 parcels of property: MacLean Hospital, Rock Meadow Conservation Area, and the former state mental hospital. It not very big (about 800 acres) and takes about 1-1.5 hrs to cover the whole trail network., but there are some areas to stop and play - like the whoop-de-doos and dirt jumps built by moto-x'ers. The terrain is fairly hilly but not very technical...so it makes for great training rides. The trails are a mix of fireroad and beautiful twisty singletrack. There are 3 prime hills to climb.
Getting there: It's right in the center of Belmont - park at the big empty parking lot next to Belmont Springs and Star Market on Route 60 near where it meets Trapelo Road. The trailhead is just across the street.
From Somerville, take Rt. 16 west to Rte 2 west. Take the first exit (Exit 60) and turn left at the end of the ramp under the highway onto Lake Street. Take lake street to the first stoplight and turn left onto Rt. 60. Follow Rt. 60 through a few sets of lights...Then the road will get kinda narrowing and twisty, and you will see a Dominoes Pizza and the Colonial Jeep dealership, then an abandoned car dealership and the empty lot before Belmont Springs. Park there - but no guarantees - we haven't been hassled there, but it does say no trespassing.
From Woburn,Take Rt. 3 South towards Arlington. In Arlington Center - go straight over Mass. Ave, following Rt. 60 West towards Belmont (instead of staying on Rt. 3) Follow Rt. 60 over Rt. 2 and through a few sets of lights...and see directions above.
From Boston/Western Cambridge/Watertown, Take Rt. 2 West to the Mt. Auburn Hospital and bear left at the fork onto Rt.16/Mt. Auburn St. Go about 1 mile and bear right after the Star Market at the fork onto Belmont Street (Trapelo Road). Follow into Belmont ((turns into Trapelo at the Oakley CC) and continue down the hill past Belmont Wheelworks on your left and the Sar market on your right. take the next right onto Rt. 60 and go 300-400 yards to the parking lot on the right.
Map from Star Market
Trails Riders... carry on a bit further down Trapelo Road, North out of Belmont - there's a cool playground on your left after the greek diner that is just awesome!
The Blue Hills has over 100 miles of legal trails for riders of all ability levels. Included among these are about 20 miles of VERY difficult singletrack trails. To get a free map of the Blue Hills' trails stop at the ranger station, just up the hill near the State Police barracks.
The open area is about 2,000 acres, the whole reservation is over 7,000 acres. If you ride there, you should pick up a copy (free) of the MTB map, which shows the open areas & trails. If you're unfamiliar with the area, a little studying can help, as single & double track distinctions are shown as well as countour lines to indicate gradients. The best way to learn the trails is to come out on one of the frequent, lead rides (NEMBA, Blue Hills Trail Watch, Friends of Blue Hills, MDC MTB Day, etc.).
Option #1: From route 95 (the old route 128) take the Houghton's Pond, Ponkapoag Trail exit. Head North towards the Hills and turn right at the "T' intersection. the houghton's pond parking lot is about 1/8 mile ahead on your right.
Option #2: Houghtons Pond parking lot. It is an easy ride from Boston or driving take RT. 28 south into Milton just as you enter the reservation lands take a right onto Chickatawbut and continue south about 2mi the parking lot is on the left it is big and easly seen and right on the road. There are bathrooms there.
Option #3: Meet in the Parking Lot just north of the Trailside Museum on Rt. 138. Take Rt. 128 exit 2 (Rt. 138 north), go straight through one traffic light, meet in the second parking lot on the right (the one just after the Trailside Museum).
Option #4: To get to the ski area take exit 2B North Milton off of 128, go straight through a set of lights and its half a mile on the right.
If you're looking for a difficult, challenging, but legal ride I'd include any or all of the following.
From the Houghton's Pond parking lot head east on Headquarters Path and 'try' to ride it all the way out to route 28. I have ridden every portion of this singletrack, in both directions, but have never done the whole thing without stopping to rest. Maybe some day. J
From route 28, retrace you route back to Forest Path and then head south. After about ½ mile bear right and go up an old road which leads to Buck hill Path. Turn right at the Y intersection and after about 30 yards. Hike up the staircase to the top of Buck Hill. This is part of the Skyline Trail, which is closed to bikes unless you're walking. (Which you will be as it's a difficult climb. If you don't want to attempt this difficult hike, just keep going on Buck Hill Path. It's a neat downhill. Then go left until you get to dark Hollow Path.)
At the top of Buck hill, take a moment to enjoy the view. Then head West until you encounter the Buck Hill Trail. This is a long, steep, eroded trail that will lead you back down to headquarters Path.
Then take an immediate left on Dark Hollow Path and follow that until you get to pavement. Then turn right and take your first right up hill. Follow that back to Headquarters Path. You should come out across the street from the ranger station. This is a long, but not too difficult climb.
So far you've ridden about 8 miles.
Cross the pavement and go up the hill by the Ranger Station. After about 150 yards take a sharp right on Hancock Hill Path. Which is very Difficult. Turn Left on Braddock path after about 2 intersections and then go left again on Breakneck Ledge Path. Follow that until it drops you down on a dirt road. Go right and then take a right on Bartol Path when you get to '5 corners'. Bartol Path is the downhill singletrack not the uphill climb over the rocks. Follow Bartol Path to Border Path and then turn left. When you get to a paved road turn left and ride to the top of Big Blue.
Be sure to check out the weather station, the view and the observation tower at the top of Big Blue.
The Ultimate technical downhill is Coon Hollow Path which is located just below the observation tower at the top of Big Blue Hill. Don't miss this one. And watch out for endos. If you follow this trail all the way to the pavement and then turn left. you'll get back to Houghton's Pond parking lot in about 1/2 mile.
By now you should have about 15 miles on your odometer and will have noticed dozens of alternative trails that you can explore on another ride.
Altogether you 'should' be able to do about 100 miles of legal riding in the Blue Hills. At least 30% of which singletrack and about 20 miles of which would be classified as difficult/dangerous.
We mountain bikers have a pretty good relationship with the MDC types in the Blue Hills. Because most people observe the rules and stay off the few trails that are closed to bikes the MDC recently opened two new sections of the Blue Hills to bikes. (The Fowl Meadow and Little Blue sections.) And in addition they just opened the nearby Stoney Brook Reservation to us.
If good relations with the MDC continue, I'd expect that in the near future more areas will be open to us. It's not necessary to ride on closed trails to have a good ride in the Blue Hills, and doing so could jeopardize any chance we might have in the future to increase our riding opportunities. Or, it could even detract from what we now have.
Borderland is a state park not too far from Foxboro, it's a really well maintained very well sign-posted park with maps and good trails ranging from pretty technical to sedate. It was unclear which trails we were allowed on, but we had fun on the ridge trail, the northwest trail and the quarry trail (pitiful quarry by the way).
The park was pretty busy - mostly with hikers with dogs and kids, as soon as you get a mile away from the parking they thin out, however it still restricts you from opening up the gas too much.
Directions: Rte. I 93 south to Rte. 128 north to Rte. I 95 south take exit 10 and then left at end of ramp to Sharon Center. Through lights, then immediate right onto Pond St.. Follow to rotary and take Massapoag Ave to Park entrance on left. It's actually quicker to get there from Rte. 24, look it up on a map and find your own way.
Alternate directions: Take Rt. 24 south to the Rt. 123 West exit (towards Stonehill College). At the 3rd set of lights, take a right (by Honey Dew Donuts) and then take a left at the next set of lights. This will bring you into Easton Ctr. Take the left FORK (it's almost straight) up the little hill past the library. At the end of that road take a right, and there's a small parking lot immeditately on your left. There's a sign there for Borderland.
Links: Mass. State Forest and Parks - Borderland State Park
Distance: 8-10 miles Terain: 60% Easy ; 31.25% Moderate ; 8.75 % Difficult (it's been tested)
From Boston/128 - take the Mass Pike to the Natick Mall Exit/Rte 30. Take Rte 30 West until it joins Rte 9 West. Go though one set of lights (Wild Harvest on right) and then there will be a Staples and Ruby Tuesday on your right. Take the next exit (Framingham Sate College / Rte 30 West). At the lights go right and follow past the town green on your left. Follow under the Mass Pike and take first left which is Belknap Road. Follow over the RR tracks to the intersection and go straight. About half a mile on your right will be Millwood Street. (just after the two houses on the right with the wooden fences along the road) Take this right and follow about .80 mile down and on your left will be a parking lot. Park here. The Millwood Golf Course is on the right.
From Worcester/495 - take Rte 9 East for about 7.5 miles. At a set of lights will be Michaels Restaurant and a Stop & Shop. Take the next exit which is Edgell Road/Framingham State College. At the lights take a left back over Rte 9. This will bring you by the town green on your left. Go under Mass Pike and take next left which is Belknap Road. Follow over the RR tracks to the intersection and go straight. About 1/2 mile down on your right will be Millwood Street. (just after the two houses on the right with the wooden fences along the road). Take this right and follow about .80 miles down and on your left will be a parking lot. Park here. The Millwood Golf Course is on the right.
It's off Thoreau St. and you can find it via MapQuest. Fairyland is a pond with trails around it... There's also a trail near Dairy Joy in Weston in Catrock Park (pretty cool place to ride around in and you can do a private run down the abandoned ski trail if you want all speed and no drainage ditches (of course, it's a rather short course, but pretty cool adrenaline rush). The only thing I ask is that attention be paid to any restrictions to this conservation land http://www.weston-forest-trail.org/marchguide.htm Catrock will be part of the July 4th ride, which will start at our house at 4:00 AM and ride out to see the sun rise at Catrock Park with breakfast!!! Details later for those of you who want to witness me (the roadie) actually riding trails. -----Original Message----- From: Sassler, MaryJane Sent: Thursday, May 27, 1999 10:58 AM To: 'email@example.com' Subject: RE: Trail access in Lincoln. There's one trail I rode with some friends a couple of years ago - it's called Fairyland (really, it is) in Concord. You can find it on a topo map. Pretty cool place to bum around, if you're looking for a new trail to ride without restrictions (at least that I know of).
Directions: This highly unknown to many people, so I would not suggest that a mass ride NOT start there, because of lack of parking and being a residential area. The entrance that I know of is in a cul-de-sac (sp?) Dairy Joy is on 117 about a 1 1/2 from the Weston/Waltham line on the right hand side. There's a road called King's Grant Road before and right next to Dairy Joy. From there, I believe you take the second right (Indian Hill???) follow road to the Cul-de-Sac and you'll see an entrance into a wooded area. >From there, you ride about 100 feet and enter at the top of the ski slope. I'll ask my hubby better directions, but that's the gist of where it is. I believe the trails lead elsewhere, and I'm sure there's a better way to get to CatRock via Waltham...just don't know where it is.
Dogtown has a lot of flat riding. Nice single track (with little rocks in the way). Not much technical stuff to fight over, but a good fast ride to get lost. There are two Quarry's nearby (you may bump into them on your travels). One (the one not near the junk yard) is great for swimming in - bring some spare shorts to avoid that wet shorts chafing feeling.
Cars parked in the northern parking lot of Dogtown Commons in the North Shore have been broken into over the last few weekends. The police recommend parking in the southern parking lot.
Take 128 north towards Gloucester. Before you get into the city limits of Gloucester you will pass over a Large bridge spanning a salt water river. Shortly after you pass over this bridge, route 128 will enter a large traffic circle (Grant Circle). Follow this circle 270 degrees around and exit off on route 127 (towards Annisquam). Follow route 127 for about 1/2 mile and it will curve to the right and pass over a small bridge and some salt water. Immediately after you cross the bridge, route 127 will curve around to the left. You do NOT want to follow 127 to the left, instead look to take a right onto Reynard St. Follow Reynard to the end (1/4 mile) and turn left onto Cherry St. Look closely to your right for a small, broken-down (almost a driveway) looking road, with a small sign for Dogtown commons at the end. Follow this road to the end until you come to a gate and can not go any further. Park your car.
Directions to Dogtown (O'Maley School parking lot): Take 128 north towards Gloucester. Before you get into the city limits of Gloucester you will pass over a large bridge spanning a salt water river. Shortly after you pass over this bridge, route 128 will enter a large traffic circle (Grant Circle). Follow this circle 270 degrees around and exit off on route 127 (towards Annisquam). Turn immediately right on Poplar Street then left onto Cherry Street. The O'Malley school is approximately a half mile down, on the left. There are two lots - park in the one nearest Cherry Street. 2 min. ride to trails. (I think this is where they park for the Marblehead bike shop rides).
NEMBA - Dogtown
Exeter is in Henderson-Swasey Town Forest. This is a great ride with lots of technical climbing, descending, singletrack (even some brand new trails) and lots of jumps. A couple of the biggest non-BMX jumps I know of are here. A lot of the trails are out & backs, so if you are totally loop obsessed you may be slightly unhappy, but not totally. There is enough riding here for 3+ hours.
Directions: Route 95 to Route 101 (exit 2) just before the toll booth in NH. After the small toll booth on the exit ramp take a right onto 101 west towards Exeter. Follow to Route 85. At the top of the exit ramp go left towards Exeter. Entrance to the park is .5 mi. on the right just before the train overpass.
It's 14 miles of really good riding, kind of like the woods in nam, with a little more hills, getting more and more technical as you get further around (and tired). The final stage is all on fireroad, all down hill and huge huge air off all the water bars. There's cool technical slickrock climbing and also singletrack littered with boulders. It's very cool. Expect hunters to be around in the Fall/Winter so wear something bright. Trails are multi use, so there may be dirtbikes and horses around.
Take 95 South to Exit 7a towards foxboro (if you pass 495 - exit 8, you missed it) I believe this is rt 140. After you get off the exit get ready, you will cut across traffic and take an immediate left on to Walnut Street. Follow Walnut, pass straight through a 4 way intersection and pass the foxboro country club on the left.
You will come to a T intersection, take a left onto south street and then look for the signs for the park, in a few hundred feet take a right into the park, pass a few houses then pull into the dirt parking lot on the left across the street from the fire station.
The main parking lot at the rangers station fills up pretty quick and this is an alternative spot to meet.
From rte 95 south....get off on the rte 1 south exit, the same for the stadium....follow rte 1 for about 5 mile and there will be a State Police Barracks on your left, then New England Pottery supply on your left, its right after the Pottery place's parking lot on your left..... follow to the end....
From 495..... Rte 1 north, go through the set of lights for the and as you crest the hill High rock street is on your right....follow to the end.
Follow this link for the DEM trail map.
Great Brook State Park is in Carisle, North of the city, about 45 mins. or so.
You can also take Rt. 4 up towards Chelmsford, or take Rt. 3 north and then get off to meet Rt. 4. That's easy too.
Groton is another great non technical riding area - teh trails make it very fast and a great place to train for cardio fitness. It's pretty small, but you can loop together some good loops in there. There are also Dirt Bikers in Groton so watch out for them zooming round a corner (like you wont HEAR them!). Another idea: after a hard ride in summer - drop by the canoe rental company and take a trip down the river for a nice post ride chill out.
Directions: From I 495: take exit 31 and follow route 119 west for 7 miles to Groton Center. Turn left onto 225 west/Rt. 111 south. Drive for 0.6 miles to the point where the two roads split. Turn right onto 225 west. Continue for 1.9 miles to the town forest. Take a left onto Town Forest Road and travel one 1/2 mile into the woods. You have arrived. This is the point of departure. Drive Time: Depends on traffic! 50+ min.
Directions from Arlington/Cambridge: Take Mass. Ave to Arlington center. Take a R onto Rte 3A in Arlington center toward Burlington. Follow that 3 miles or so until you see "Mahoney's" garden center. Take the next right after that (I think it's Pond St.?) there is a gas station on the corner. Follow that street 1/2 mile until you see Horn Pond, then pull into parking lot on left.
Leominster State Forest is a great cardio training ground. They have well over 6 hours of trails to ride around and almost all of it is real nice smooth twsity singletrack through the woods. Real real nice single track. There's lots of hills if you like climbing.
There's not much on the super technical rock front, but the riding is really good if you like blasting through the woods at speed and the occasional rocky descent.
I can't remember the exit number, but the LSF exit is Rt 31. (It's before the Wa-Wa-Wachusett exit.)
After driving west on Rt 2 for 45-50 minutes, the highway goes up this crazy hill on a right hand curve, w/ a big rock wall off the shoulder (dead man's curve). You'll know it when you see it. That's when you want to snap out of auto pilot, cause you're about 3 exits away.
Go through the traffic light and continue on route 2. Go past Mt Elam road (a really dangerous exit that's not an exit, just a break in the guard rail where this country road intersects w/ the highway. Weird.)
The next exit is route 31. go left off the exit, south on 31. Go past the dump on the left. Up a little ways you'll see the Ranger Station on the right. A little farther you'll see the main gate and swimming hole on the left. past that is a dirt parking area on the right. GO PAST ALL THAT STUFF...
About 15 seconds later you'll see a dirt road intersect w/ 31. Rocky Pond Road, turn LEFT and park. If you come to the flashing light at rt 140, you went too far.
Alternate directions: Take rte 2 west to exit 28. Take a left off the exit ramp and drive about 3 miles. You will pass a hotel, a power plant, the ranger station, and a swimming area. You will eventually come to Rocky Pond road, which is on the left hand side (one of those small wooden signs so keep a lookout) This road turns right into a parking lot.
The Lincoln Conservation Land area has a "Bike Loop" which is really more like a path...meaning you just go back the way you came. It's not all that technical but it's really fast (plus it looks really nice)!! This trail is good for some cardio work and to develop some good bike handling skills.
Many of the trails are closed in Lincoln but there is one "legal" trail marked with blue bike path signs. There is only one short stretch of pavement we need to ride on but the rest is fire road with maybe a little singletrack (if you want to call it that). It's too bad that the other trails were closed.
From the North: Take Route 128 South to Exit #28 - Trapelo Road Lincoln and bear right following the Lincoln signs. (see below "THEN" for the rest)
From the South: Take Route 128 North to Exit #28B - Trapelo Road Lincoln
THEN: Follow Trapelo Road for about 2.4 miles.
Take a LEFT at the Stop sign onto Lincoln Road (see Old Library on your right). Follow Lincoln Road for about 1.5 miles. After you cross some train tracks, take a RIGHT onto Codman Road and follow that for a little over a 1/2 mile. Take a LEFT onto Route 126 and follow for about 1/4 mile until you get to your first set of lights. At the lights take a RIGHT onto Route 117 for about .7 miles. (That Road is called S. Great Road). The parking lot for the trail head is on your RIGHT, across the street from 61 S. Great Road. It's really easy to pass so be careful.
Riding in Lynn woods is very technical - some say even better than the Fells, which is pretty crowded a lot of the time.
This is one of the few places to ride near the city that is also used by equestrians (thats horse riders for us lay people). Some of them use the entrance that leads into the woods from Majestic Stables (the Walden Pond side?). The name of the street that leads to this entrance is called Walden Pond Ave. That is where most of the horses are although there are three other stables in the area. Keep your eyes peeled when you are in this area!
This is also known as the Great Woods parking lot, it's near the golf club, right near the baseball fields. It's right at the bottom of the fireroad which leads upto the tower.
From 128 (Route 95): Take exit 44B - it's the exit for 129 East, Take your 2nd exit from the rotary and carry on down 129 East. After a while you'll pass a hospital type building and a flashing light for a left turn, keep going down 129. When you come to a left bend in the road you want to take a right there (Just before St Marys Cemetry). There's a sign for Lynn Woods, but it's facing the other way. Anyway once you've taken that right you're there :-)
The best place to park these days is in the big lot near Northeast Cycles. If you are heading south down route 1 from route 95, you'll have to go about 1 mile past Northeast Cycles and then take the next exit to turn around and come back to get into the parking lot - it's quite a long round trip
128/95 North. Take Exit 43 (the exit AFTER the Salem St/Montrose Exit). Take a right off the ramp and go straight through the lights (heading towards the Saugus Ironworks). Bear left at 2nd set of lights, Go over Route 1 and take the a right onto the ramp heading North. Proceed on Route 1 North until you hit Northeast Cycles on your right.
Head up 95 north and take 129 East (exit 44B) it's the third exit you'll see for 129 (you'll see one very early on and then two close to each other (44 A&B). If you got the right exit then the exit ramp will dump you on a rotary. Once you are on the rotary you want the second exit just past a Quick Java hut (129 East)- follow that road to a set of lights at Regina St and turn right onto that. Just after you see the school on your left you want to take the left immediately after the school. Take this road for a few blocks until you reach the BIG POWERLINES which pass over the road. Park anywhere on the side of the street underneath the powerlines. This is where we meet.
Coming from Boston, Exit parking lot L + go L under train bridge. Road ends in a T, go L onto Essex. See convenience store at lighted intersection + go R onto Rte 129 for 1 mile. Fork in road, go L. (If you miss this, the road ends in a T, go L onto Rte 107.) At light go L onto Rte 107 for over 1/2 mile. At Rte 129 go R 'til Lynn Woods main entrance, over 1.5 miles. Main entrance is marked w/a flashing yellow light, after cemetery where they bury mountain bikers from the white trail. Hammer & this will take 15 min, 30 min if you get a flat.
It an easy, particularly scenic ride. It is 95N to route 113 East - Newburyport. Proceed East past Friendly's, there will be a cemetery on your left. A road runs throught the middle of the cemetery. Take a left onto that road(across from Papa Gino's). About now you should see brown signs indicating where Mausdley is. At the end of that road take another left. The road will curve right with a fork to the left. Stay left. Go over Route 95 and keep going until you see the park on your right and the parking lot on your left.
For anyone that's not familiar with it - this is truly an awesome epic point to point ride. The shuffling of the cars was not a big deal at all and allowed bob to place well needed water halfway through the ride. The first 15 miles were awesome rocky single track - this is highly technical babyhead (and toddlerheads too) windy pick your line kind of riding perfect singletrack hardly ridden and superbly marked by little yellow triangles on almost every tree. the second 10 miles were pasture roads and snowmobile trails, slightly wider, but still rocky and run. mix that all together with some amazingly steep short hills and long descents and about 200 yards of road riding and it made for a sweet ride. in the last half there were plenty of places to cut the ride short if you wanted which was reassuring.
The easiest way to get to the Spencer Big Y end where we left vehicles for the finish, is to take the MassPike west to the Sturbridge exit (exit 9) and head south (the only way you can go). As soon as you leave the tolls get over to your right - Rte 20 comes up very fast - and take the second Rte 20 ramp - the East bound ramp. Take Rte 20 about 3 miles to Rte 49 and then head North on Rte 49. Rte 49 ends at Rte 9. ot right on Rte 9 and then in a 1/4 mile you will see the Big Y on your left. Park in the Big Y lot near the Ernies car wash at the far end. Alternatively, if you wanted to make the ride a little shorter and cut out the snowmobile section, you could keep going on Rte 9 to the other side of Spencer and park that the Spencer Country Inn - that's where the Pub is and there is the driving range right next to it - the Inn will be on your right.
Once you've left cars in spencer, you'll need to get to Rutland State Park. Go to the center of Spencer and take Rte 31 North. Going toward the center of Spencer from the Big Y means you will turn left at the first stoplight in town (not the McDick's light). You'll travel I guess about 8-10 miles north on Rte 31 before you'll see a restaurant on your right - the Black and White Rest. The first intersection past the Black an White is where I usually leave water. Continuing on Rte 31 from the water stop, take the next left - I don't remember the name of the road but it takes you past the Treasure Valley Scout Camp and the is a sign at Rte 31 directing you to that camp. If you miss that turn, keep going until you get to Paxton Center and turn left on Rte 122. Take Treasure Valley Road to Rte 122 and turn left.
Follow 122 for a few miles. You will pass a body of water - on the left side of the road is a state boat launch - keep going - you'll eventually (mile or so) pass a road coming in from the right - keep goin about another 1/4 mile and you'll see a pull-off on the right. Park there. You'll know you are at the right spot if the road on the North side is gated, and if you can see the yellow MST markers. The trail head is on the South side of the road. Just follow the yellow triangles.
As far as following the trails once you've reached the Spencer Country Inn, I think you'll have to wing it.
If you can get over the other side of the river into Litchfield, NH there are some great trails off RT 3-A. Go 3A north, about 1/4 mile after the golf course you'll come to a country store. Soon after that take your first right then immediatly left then right (these are drivways getting progressivly smaller) onto dirt road and follow into gravel pit.
Just start following the power lines to the south toward Hudson and the apple orchards in Londonderry. Or go up and out of gravel pit (North) and ride untill you run into the Manchester Airport. Usuallly some good (small) water crossings to cool off in.
The terrain is a combination of fire roads and singletrack (not that difficult) Perfect for rookies and intermediates. All riding levels welcome. I'd like to start riding by 6:45 and ride until dark (approx. 8:15 - 8:30) Meet in the parking lot at the Central Ave. entrance.
From 95 South, take the Highland Ave. Exit (Exit 19 I think, it's near Muzi Ford). You want to go south on Highland Ave. Follow Highland Ave into the center of Needham. In Needham Center, Highland Ave ends and you want to take a right onto Rte. 135. Follow Rte 135 through Needham Center and past the Mobil Station on your right. After the Mobil Station, if you keep going, you will come to a set of lights. (there is a church on the opposite left corner) You want to take a left onto Central Avenue. Follow Central Ave about a mile (maybe less) and the road will bend to the right and there will be a road coming in from the left. As you begin to bear right around the corner, there will be an entrance to Needham Woods on the left. Go in here and there is a small parking lot.
From Newton, take Needham Street south so that International Bicycle is on your right and Muzi Ford is on your right. Needham Street turns into Highland Ave somewhere along there and follow Highland Ave into Needham Center.
The riding at Otis is kind of between the Fells and Vietnam. It's a super fast trail, which drains well with lots of up and down. Almost all single track, Hardly any technical riding.
Otis is quite a drive from Boston, but we've always found it worth the drive. 93/95 South to Rt. 24 South, then 495 East towards Cape Cod. This will bring you directly to the Bourne Bridge. (You can also take Rt. 3 South to Sagamore Bridge and then follow signs to the Bourne Bridge).
Once over the bridge, there will be a rotary, and just follow 28 South towards Falmouth. At the next rotary you hit you want to take a left, go almost all the way around to the Military Base Enterance (Connery Ave.). Take the first U-turn you can to go back towards the rotary and just beofre you hit the rotary pull into the shooting club entrance on your right. Park somewhere there.
To get to the trails, head back over both directions of Connery Ave and duck into the woods - just go cruising around on the singletrack and have a blast. If you get lost (and you will) listen out for traffic and head twoards it. It'll probably be rt 28 (most likely) and head north with it until you come to the rotary.
Fast, singletrack riding - similar to Otis - very fun! Up and down small hills, with some short steep climbs that will get your heart pumping. Windy, narrow trails with tight turns. Not very technical, but there are some rocky spots. A great place for all levels of riding. The powerline road that will take you back to the parking lot is pretty sandy. You can get a map at the town offices or True Wheels cycle near the Otis trails may have a spare.
It's a bit further than Otis. Maybe 1.5 hrs from Boston (without traffic). Take Rt. 3 South, and over the Sagamore Bridge. Follow on Rt. 6 towards Provincetown. Exit 5, take right off of ramp, take quick next right down acccess road. Parking will be just up the road on your left under the power lines
The area to ride is both up to the left and right of the lines. The whole area is bordered by Rt. 6, Another Route, but I forgot what is was, that leads from Rt. 6 South to the WEST of the woods, a firing range (YIKES!) to the east of the woods, and then at the south of the woods is an airport. And the powerlines that seperates the area in two. So, if you have a good sense of direction - it's easy to navigate around and to get back to the car (just find the powerlines!).
MTBinfo - Trail of Tears
Vietnam is similar to riding in Lynn Woods, it's a little faster and there's still some good technical stuff.
Zoom down Route 90 west until you hit 495 south. Carry on down 495 south to exit 20 which is for route 85. at the end of the off ramp take a left and park in the first business building on your right. The whole trip takes about an hour from Boston and only 30 mins from the junction of Rt 90 and Rt 95.
The land owner is starting to pay attention to bikers using his land. If they get sufficiently annoyed they may try and restrict access - No trespassing signs have already been put up.
If you wish to try and limit the observed trail use then try a different trail head - here's a suggestion from Bob Scott
If anybody else wants to use the rt 16 entrance to make it look like bike traffic is down, you can find it by taking the same I495 exit (Route 85) and going toward Wendy's. At Wendy's turn left and go to the next set of lights - Rte 16. Turn left and go about 1/4-1/2 mile. On your left you will see a pumping station and a parking area just past that. The trail head is obvious and heads up a short hill to an electrical power substation. Follow the fence around to the right and you'll see a road that will take you to the playground rocks.
Ride on up the fire road you saw as you drove down Rt 85, keep following the power lines as far as you can . eventually you'll come to the end of the lines (you can't go further), turn back and go into the woods as early as you can (you should find a largish flat area with smooth rocks either side and a sharp descent into the woods. ride around in the woods and you should end up coming out where you started.
Another option is to ride along the power lines until you come to the pyramid rock and dash into the woods there - this seems to be a different loop which brought us out at the end of the power lines.
If you don't fancy the long loose fireroad up at the start, carry on along rt 85 and duck into the woods there (on the right) you should find your way back to the power lines eventually
NOTE: These routes all intertwine and so you could end up anywhere - even lost! If you do get lost - listen out for traffic and head to it - chances are you'll hit 495 (and the power lines) or 85.
If you continue up 85 for about 1/4 mile, there's a whole bunch of rocks by the road, go up the dirt road there - bear right through a gate when you get the choice - you should end up at a quarry which is great for post ride relaxation. Be careful if you jump! There's a Wendy's not far further the other way down 85.
MTBinfo - Vietnam
This ride is not nearly as technical as Lynn Woods' Bow Ridge but does have some nice singletrack trails.
Weston trails are pretty, covered with Pine neddles, not any hill accept at Regis college area. No technical areas, there is some wetland and single track. There is a lot of trail area/mileage though, at least two hours to make it around the perimeter. Trails are accessable from the railroad track, parking at Westn Recreation area near a pond, or from the Campion Center, also at Regis College. A better small area is CatRock Park. It is na old ski slope, steep with tecnical trails, some very narrow and fast.
Meet at the Duck Feeding/Canoe Rental Parking Lot across the Charles River from the Newton Marriott Hotel.
Take Mass Pike exit 15 or Rt 128/95 exit 24. Follow the signs for Rt. 30 Newton/Weston. Turn right onto South St. (look for sign for Brandeis University) follow sign for Brandeis University - it's a left just before you cross rt 128 take first right to go under Rt. 128 (It's sign posted duck feeding area) turn right into the parking lot.
Some technical spots, but nothing like the ridge. Slight hills, but with no really huge climbs. Quick and fun.
It's a state park, it's about 1/2 hr. from Boston, South 93, to Rt. 3 South, following to Cape Cod. Take the Rt. 228 Exit, Left off of Ramp. Follow 228 straight from a few miles, into the town of HIngham... There will be state park signs. There will be a right, that's well marked, *maybe free street?*, follow down this street, the state park is like one mile down on right, follow into park. Usually meet in the first parking lot on the left next to the visitors center.
Usually we meet at the first parking lot on the right.
It is very boney, and if you are not sure of where you are going, it is easy to go in small circles since there are many trails. Lots of great technical stuff. There are some rock formations like those at Vietnam, but not quite as cool. Also some challenging hills.
95 South to exit 6B, 495 North, follow 495 to exit 14B, 1 South, at the first set of lights on Rt. 1 take a right follow for 8/10 of a mile, parking lot is on the left.


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I thought that it might be time (or past time) to remind everyone about the deadly and internationally ubiquitous disease that is wiping out plantings and baskets of Impatiens everywhere. Downy mildew is a common disease on many kinds of plants but this strain is specific to Impatiens walleriana hybrids. The spores are spread by wind, rain, plant to plant contact, splattering of water, humans, etc. There is no cure. It can be prevented by two measures : early and frequent chemical intervention using a variety of fungicides OR not planting Impatiens walleriana at all until we start seeing new introductions proclaiming resistance. That day is probably not far off....heavy duty research has been on going for years all over the world. This is a billionS dollar business....research dollars are not scarce. The 'Sunpatiens' hybrids appear to be highly resistant but require more sunlight than the shade loving walleriana. New Guinea impatiens are also unaffected...but need lots of sunlight. Many of us have discussed this problem at length in the past. We've come up with some very interesting substitutions for shady locations. This isn't a new problem, it's just more widespread. So, be a smart consumer. |
Follow-Up Postings:
Keeping my fingers crossed. I just got a new impatiens, and am including a pic. And I've saved a couple from last year and they're fine. I haven't seen this disease here in Houston at any nursery and all of the ones I bought last year were fine. Hopefully, it won't show up this here year, I really like impatiens. |
I usually grow from seed, hope that alleviates the problem in my own yard. My neighbors aren't too big on flowers, so hopefully nothing will get carried over to my property. (shrug) |
Mxk3, growing your own from seed doesn't protect you, unfortunately. The propagules could be blown in from miles and miles away in a storm or on the feet of a bird. It certainly improves your chances, though. Many of the people who have posted here feel very strongly that they brought this disease home with them from the garden center. Eahamel, your impatiens is a beauty. |
And I think Eahamel's impatiens is New Guinea, so it should be safe from the dreaded Downy Mildew. Incidentally, I once saw some Downy Mildew on a zinnia, and it is weird stuff. ZM |
- Posted by ladyrose65 6bNJ (My Page) on Sat, Feb 16, 13 at 19:00
Rhizo, are most nurseries aware of this disease? Because, they make most of their money selling impatients and petunias. Can it linger in the soil? |
Zenman, I'm pretty sure that the Silhouette series of Impatiens is I. Walleriana. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, I get a Downy Mildew on my zucchini sometimes, and it IS a weird disease. I've never seen any on my zinnia....powdery mildew sometimes. That's bad enough! Ladyrose, I honestly don't know how aggresive the education program is Downy mildew of Impatiens (Plasmopara obducens) is tricky. It's not a fungus so not easily controlled by the chemicals available to us (consumers) . It also has two stages....one exists in free water such as rain, droplets on the foliage, etc. The other stage is located within the infected plant cells. When diseased leaves fall to the ground, those spores can last in the soil for years! Let's add more means of prevention, which I should have mentioned first......housekeeping! Remove fallen leaves and infected plants regularly. Also, avoid overhead irrigation at all costs. Plant tissues can only become infected when droplets of water are present. |
Hi Dorie, "I'm pretty sure that the Silhouette series of Impatiens is I. Walleriana." After a lilttle googling, I'm pretty sure you are right about that. And thanks for the info that Downy Mildew is not a fungus. That stuff is weird scary. And you are very helpful in sharing your horticultural expertise. This ongoing threat of Downy Mildew against Impatiens walleriana is troublesome, and potentially dramatic. Good save on Silhouette not being New Guinea. I don't know where I got that misconception. It is an expensive patented (Syngenta) cultivar, which would make its loss to Downy Mildew even more troubling. It's good that people like you help prevent the spread of horticultural misconceptions. ZM |
You're so kind, Zen...I figure that we're all learning together. :-) |
Zenman, no, mine isn't a New Guinea, I've never had any luck with those. It's hard to see detail in the pic I took, sorry. Dorie, thanks for the info about how downy mildew is spread. I just about always water from overhead, usually rain water. I'll try to remember to put the baskets in a bucket of water instead. Has anyone tried to treat the downy mildew with milk? That's been used successfully on zucchini and other crops. |
- Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on Tue, Feb 19, 13 at 11:15
Eahamel, downy mildew aside, putting any plants in a same bucket would be a sure way to spread any common pathogens like botrytis and pseudomonas. Would you be able to use a watering can with a small funnel-type spout you can aim between the foliage? I do that, with a milk jug for refilling in the other hand. I'm sure "they" are trying everything to find a cure and/or develop a resistant hybrid. I've heard of milk being recommended for powdery mildew, which is an unrelated, different issue (as well as being a topical issue vs. systemic.) Such a bummer. Maybe little sterile bubbles (like the bubble boy from Seinfeld?) I wonder if this is like when a plague ravages humans, like smallpox. The few left standing are immune. Is that possible with this kind of disease in plants? |
Purple is right...Downy mildew is not Powdery mildew. Eahamel, the secret to watering with disease prevention in mind is to water the top of the SOIL, not through the foliage. That's pretty easy to do in containers....not so much in the garden or border. Purple, this particular strain of Downy mildew is not new. I think that it has exploded for a lot of reasons. |
- Posted by gamountains (My Page) on Wed, Feb 20, 13 at 7:37
First off thanks for bringing this issue up again. "Rhizo, are most nurseries aware of this disease?" I'm going to say yes. Here in SW Florida (my winter retreat) I was practically lied to from a "vendor" in Home Depot. He was carefully cleaning out the bad ones three months ago. Have you ever seen that before? Nope. In the past they would flourish in the home centers. I asked if he had heard of the disease. The reply was no, but I sensed he was well aware of it. I mean this guy was pulling trays and trays off the floor and simply replacing them with "healthy ones" I could see a wave of infected plants and some that did not show the disease...yet. By the way these places are perfect for incubating (right word?) the disease. All plants are watered heavily daily, throw in a few cool nights and bingo, it starts up again. My personal experience in both Florida and North Georgia shows they are affected during wet/damp cool periods. The soil issue is probably right on target as well. However the disease is almost non existent/stops when warmer/hotter weather appears. I noticed that last summer in North Georgia. It was also a wetter summer than usual. I'm going to experiment this year by waiting until mid June (average last frost April 20) to plant because I really miss those buggers. If they make it into mid September I'll be pleased. Another thing. While the big growers may not seem to "be aware" I look around at dozens of well manicured golf course communities here in SW Florida that probably have their own nurseries and none have touched Impatiens this season. Instead Begonias are mostly being used. I'm also thinking Impatiens may not be as affected in drier climates where humidity levels are low? |
I spent many years in the wall to wall golf course area of coastal S Carolina and never knew one to have their own large production greenhouses. It wouldn't be cost effective. Anyway, you are so right about the kinds of temperatures to be aware of. Humidity is not so much of a problem as free water, but could certainly be an issue. The disease is alive and well in any location that isn't given an opportunity to dry in between irrigation cycles, even in very arid sites. That tried and true rule of not watering at night or late afternoon is a good one to stick to. Golf or resort communities are limited as to when they can do their watering. Those pesky property owners or club members want their walking and bike paths dry in the early morning. And if you don't think that there would be some major squawking from the golfer....holy moly. The greenskeepers are on the job pre-dawn, and everything has to be dry by then for the early mowing. That means that the irrigation system must be programmed to run at night. Now, here's the thing about the golf course industry....it is supported by billions of research, education, and outreach dollars. You just wouldn't believe the quality and quantity of information available to superindents. Those folks will know ALL about this or any other pest or disease trend. I've never seen anything like it in other 'green ' industries. |
- Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on Wed, Feb 20, 13 at 9:51
I'm still not clear, if there's a clear answer, is it possible for individual plants to be immune? "I've never seen anything like it in other 'green ' industries. " Rhizo, by this, did you mean the golf course superintendent education, or this disease? |
- Posted by gamountains (My Page) on Wed, Feb 20, 13 at 16:29
Rhizo: You'd be surprised with clubs that want $150K as a membership fee. I'm only talking about main drive throughs and around the clubhouse. Some here actually maintain the center mediums of the main highway along the property. Good points, but how do you clean up morning dew? purple: Both, they know what's going on. Big, big money in maintaining some of these golf courses with the education, and continued learning at the top levels. Individual? It's roulette. |
There are reports of induced disease resistance in certain plants which are grown in potting mix which has a certain percentage of vermicompost or worm casts. Maybe it's worth giving worm poop a try this summer in the plant containers. |
Purple, I meant the bombarding of information, research data, new products, free seminars, etc. that seems to be available to golf course employees....especially if they belong to one of the associations pertinent to the industry. There's soooo much money in the golf industries. Purple, yes to the inherent resistance to individual plants. I suspect that some acreage is devoted to that kind of research. Plant selection for special qualities is an on going technique in the development of new cultivars of all kinds of plants. But most of the work in this instance is likely to weigh heavily on the side of breeding. We want an impatiens with the colors, shade tolerance, and bloom period longevity of our favorites AND superior disease resistance, too. We ain't askin ' for much, are we? Gamountains, I'd be surprised if high end clubs produced their own annual stock. I've worked for and consulted for quite a few of those places from Myrtle Beach to Hilton Head. It's all about contract growers. The plant orders are placed months (even a year) in advance to these big growers. The deliveries can be staggered to accomodate the needs of the club. Logistically, the growing and staging of hundreds of thousands of plants is NOT something that can be done in-house. Let the burden of production, delivery, and quality be on the contract growers. Win win. Over the years, I've coerced a couple of such properties to build a commercial size production greenhouse for me. I was able to grow some out of the ordinary plant material that our contractors didn't want to mess with at the time. That was great fun! But I sure did have to fight for the real estate. Gerris, anything that helps plants to be healthy is bound to promote natural resistance. We need to foster a healthy soil and follow BMPs (best management practices) ...if we do that, we'd probably see fewer incidences of infection. With vermicompost, though, a little goes a long ways in container. You don't want to add a lot of something that will turn mucky in a few weeks. |
Here's a link to a research article with good references at bottom of abstract page. |
Here is a link that might be useful: literature on disease suppression using compost tea
- Posted by gamountains (My Page) on Thu, Feb 21, 13 at 17:50
Rhizo: Makes sense. They have the dough. I though perhaps some may buy large quantities of plugs and go from there. |
Here's a related article in which the researcher was able to control to a certain extent development of powdery mildew on balsam using aqueous extracts of vermicompost sprayed onto the plant leaves. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Singh, et al 2003 Antifungal activity using aqueous extract of vermicompost vs. powdery mildew of balsam
Powdery mildew on balsam is a far cry from Downy mildew on Impatiens walleriana hybrids. And since just plain water is a control for Powdery mildew, it isn't too surprising that an aqueous extract of vermicompost might have an effect, since the water, and not the earthworm byproduct, would be the active ingredient. |
Are you a plant pathologist? |
One doesn't need to be a plant pathologist to be acquainted with basic fundamentals. You clearly have some interesting information to offer. May I suggest that you would have a wider audience if you started a brand new thread in the Garden Clinic forum? The topic of this thread is, after all, about Downy Mildew of Impatiens. This is not new information by any means...it might be interesting for you to post in the Organic Gardening forum as a reminder. |
I was merely trying to learn from someone who was knowledgeable. Good luck folks. |
Gerris, you didn't make your intent clear at all...all I was doing was trying to give you the best opportunity possible to share your ideas. Absolutely no intent on my part or our parts to do anything but be helpful. I don't know that there are any plant pathologists, entomologists, soil scientists, plant physiologists, etc. who frequent the forums, but you'll find an abundance of knowledgeable and experienced people. |
As someone who works in the young plant industry for an EXTREMELY large grower, I can say that any any greenhouse that grows and sells plants as a profession must be living under a rock to not be aware of the Downy Mildew epidemic. Anyone who thinks that they are "immune" has unrealistic expectations. MILLIONS of dollars have been and continue to be poured into this problem both in trying to discover treatments for prevention as well as development of resistant strains of wallerana genetics. Trust me, the professional breeders of these plants have already tried all of the "home remedies" with no success. If you insist on purchasing impatiens, plan on losing them. It will make absolutely no difference if you start them yourself from seed or cuttings, or if you buy plants from a Big Box or little garden center. Rhizo has presented some EXCELLENT information on how it is spread, and it doesn't matter how ideal your conditions are, how good of a grower you are, you stand an extremely good chance of losing your plants. |
I always plant mine from seed and last year they were a disaster anyway. Avoiding them this year. |
I still have most of mine from last year. No problems, but keeping those digits crossed. |
This has been around since 2003 (in the UK) and nurseries are certainly fully aware - the more responsible growers have stopped growing any I.walleriana at all. The I,hawkeri (New Guinea hybrid) has some tolerance and supposedly, the Sakata Seed Co has bred Sunpatiens, another hybrid which is reportedly immune (as well as being appropriate for sunny situations). Anyone selling I.walleriana is definitely pulling a sharpie since this is not just a little localised nuisance but has had a devastating impact on many nurseries who have, for years, relied on this super-easy, fast growing, cheap and colourful bedding plant - Bizzie Lizzies, as we call them in the UK, were always the top selling and absolutely ubiquitous bedding plant, for indoors and outdoors. |
The 'Sunpatiens' hybrids appear to be highly resistant but require more sunlight than the shade loving walleriana. I was *just* about to post a question re the amount of shade under which 'Sunpatiens' can thrive i.e. flower. I was hoping it would be comparable to the walleriana but it seems not...oh darn. |
Goblugal (or other experts on Sunpatients), What is your opinion about the Sunpatiens? I was just getting ready to pick up a 6 pac of Orange Sunpatients at Lowes. But will not waste my $8.95 if you give a thumbs down. Thanks |
Huge thumbs up for Sunpatiens from my growing climate. Florida performance is supposed to be excellent, and they have not exhibited any traces of Downy Mildew infection - probably because of their New Guinea parentage |
Excellent! Thanks goblugal. Don't need more plants. I just thinned 50+ petunia seedlings, many blacked eyed susan seedlings and tons of salvia seedlings. But I will make room for these. Thanks, Bob |
OK...it's obviously been a long time since I purchased a pack of annuals...$8.95!!!? Yikes! Robert's been coming home with a tray of a dozen 4" pots of Angelonia for the last couple of years. Now I know why he's not been telling me how much they cost! |
Just got home. They were 6 plants for $7.98. The Waves came in the same pac/price. I never pay full price for any plant, but I spent so darn much for seeds this year that I thought I would blow the rest of the budget on these. Hopefully the only plants I will buy this season. Won't tell you how much your 4" pots are. :-) I am a push over for fertilizer bargains. Embrassed to tell you how many types I have (each has it's purpose, I rationalize.) So bought a 30lb bag of all organic fertilizer for $7.99 marked down from $19.99. Jungle Grow. Sold as a lawn fertilizer. But since organics are slow to break down versus Scott's Turfbuilder, people probably thought it didn't work. Poor repeat sales; now a good markdown. Both at Lowe's. |
Rhizo, you can still get flats of seed propagated annuals fairly cheap, but the input costs of the vegetative varieties (like Sunpatiens and Angelonia) is much higher, not to mention that the cost of producing them has gone up for the greenhouses. |
globlugal wrote: Huge thumbs up for Sunpatiens from my growing climate. Florida performance is supposed to be excellent. I don't want to wear out my welcome but does anyone here have experience with "Sunpatiens" in lots of shade? |
Roue21, I am wondering the same thing. I read a post somewhere where someone was pretty upset about them not taking as much sun as they claim. (Could have been the Sunpatients homepage). They were upset about (what's his name..Jimmy?) who does all the hot weather trials in Dallas, who just raved and raved about their hot weather performance. That person said his irrigation systems are so over the top that of course they performed.That's one reason I bought the 6 pac. I will place them in 3 different light senarios. If I can hit on the perfect location in my micro gardens, then I will buy next year. Others in our forum would know the answer to your question; I should know in the fall :-) |
Bugbite - you are talking about Jimmy Turner, who is the trial Director at the Dallas Arboretum. And his "irrigation systems" aren't over the top. Are they good? Absolutely. You can't grow in Dallas without some type of system! |
Goblugal, In the link are some comments. For a few years I have been reading the trial results from several trials sites including Jimmy Turner's. Last year I thought I would fly to Dallas to visit the trials but it seemed to be closed to non-commerical people. Is that true? I realize I should just call them, but thought you might know. (My favorite is Allen Owings.) Thanks, Bob |
Here is a link that might be useful: Some Sunpatient comments.
- Posted by rosiew 8 GA (firstname.lastname@example.com) on Sun, Mar 24, 13 at 6:41
What advice can y'all offer IF a garden center is offering impatiens IF the downy mildew is known to be in your area. I'm in Metro Atlanta. It's way early here for planting annuals, but I suspect they are already in stock. Planning throwing a hissy fit anywhere I see them for sale. Suggestions for who to talk with at the retailer to get results, that is, pulling them from stock will be welcome. |
I would be so very impressed with any garden centre which makes the conscious decision to not carry the walleriana impatiens. Having said that I find it very unlikely that will be the case. What you might do is to find a one page detailed description of this 'disease' on the internet and have it with you when out and about this spring and summer so that you can give a copy of it to the manager (although I do find it hard to believe that 'they' dont know about this problem). Or you might even be proactive and make contact with your favourite nurseries right now and ask about their plans with respect to stocking this plant. |
This post was edited by rouge21 on Sun, Mar 24, 13 at 11:26
Hmmmm, It might be worthwhile talking to the store owner or manager. Just to let them know that this disease is active around the country, and what to look for...how to answer questions about it...what to do when customers complain about their plants collapsing at home, etc. The Big Box stores can't do a thing about it....they pretty much have to stock what is shipped to them. And we all know that the level of horticultural knowledge is not the best or non-existent in those places. Not criticizing, just being factual. I like rouge's idea about providing an internet fact sheet...one from a research university. Rosie, out of curiosity, I typed UGA impatiens downy mildew into Google and came up with all kinds of good hits. Retail outlets will face many very angry consumers if they DON'T stock impatiens, please remember that. If I had my own garden center, I'd probably carry them but have an information sheet to give to each customer who buys some. At least they will be well informed, As a matter of fact, I would rather a customer buy them at my store and become educated then to huff off and buy elsewhere not knowing a thing. Then, you can be darned tootin' that I'll make it a marketing tool for me. I'd offer a slew of other shade-friendly options to replace impatiens in baskets and the garden and plant up lots of examples and show beds. I'd provide lots of substitutes....which is important when trying to pry impatiens out of someone's hands. My garden center (the one in my head) would be all about education. This subject would be one of the morning lecture series...I'd bribe an expert from one of the universities to help. My brain is thinking now....I'd contact the newspaper to let me do a feature story about this disease and to show all of the different suggestions that everyone can find in MY garden center! ;-) Our local television stations also showcase business stories and I'd sure get myself and my business on the news....explaining the facts about this disease and trying to get people to try some safer options. |
This post was edited by rhizo_1 on Sun, Mar 24, 13 at 11:25
My sister told me she read in the gardening column of the local paper that some of the nurseries around here will not be carrying impatiens this year as they do not want their reputation ruined (because, you know - consumers blame everything on the STORE...), they will be offering other shade-loving annuals. I imagine they will have signs and sheets everywhere about why they aren't carrying impatiens and what else to grow instead. It's the independents that are doing this. Good for them! |
- Posted by rosiew 8 GA (email@example.com) on Sun, Mar 24, 13 at 12:00
I'm not encouraged about what I'm reading here and on google. rhizo, please help me understand this statement of yours: "If I had my own garden center, I'd probably carry them but have an information sheet to give to each customer who buys some". I was heartened when my SIL said his company would not be planting any impatiens this year and not in the foreseeable future. They normally would be planting hundreds of flats. And I feel it is not right for anyone to until the cause is found and a 'do-able' treatment is found. Maybe applying fungicides every two weeks, maybe more frequently, could hold it at bay. I'm done ranting for the moment. Time to take a deep breath.And not even proofing this, just sending, possible warts and all. |
I stopped by 1 of the biggest garden centers in my area this AM.They had a whole section of impatiens.If I had seen someone working back there I might have struck up a conversation about the mildew problem. I'm going to a garden club meeting tomorrow night where my favorite grower is giving a presentation. I can't wait to ask him about the downy mildew in impatiens & also coleus. rose |
Bugbite - The Dallas Arboretum is open to the public. The trials are part of the Arboretum, so can be viewed. |
Well, I didn't get any Impatience this spring, not worth the hassell......I had planted some red Salvia last year and they are still blooming out there, so I got some more of them, also I found that Gaillardia and Rudbeckia and other daisy types do well in that area, I got some seeds and grew them and now they are doing well out there....also Snapdragons do well there..... that bed is under a large magnolia and the tree roots are right up near the surface, so it stays 'poor', also dry, also it is partly shaded with some afternoon sun.... I'm hoping this all works out this summer when the heat and humidity hits!! goodbye Impatience plants, it's been good to know 'ya......sally |
- Posted by gamountains (My Page) on Tue, Apr 2, 13 at 7:34
Back from my winter retreat in Florida and I see the local Lowes is offering them and so early to boot! I did get a refund from the local store manager last year on two flats, but she did not know of the problem or was just ignoring it. Nice gal, but perhaps pressured by profit ridden upper management. So what did they say Rose? |
The local greenhouse man addressed this to garden club. He said he has not seen this in our area & is growing them.He said no doubt the disease is coming but plant & enjoy if you wish. Don't fill your shade spaces with impatiens & wail if they succumb. Rose,Iowa |
- Posted by gamountains (My Page) on Fri, Apr 5, 13 at 8:51
Iowa? Makes sense. Probably just a matter of time. |
- Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on Mon, Apr 22, 13 at 8:59
I've seen Impatiens at every store I've shopped so far this year. That's not saying a whole lot, not many shopping options around here, but they're out there, at every store that sells plants. |
They are in every place I've been & I've been to quite a few places. rose,Iowa |
I wonder if the way certain annuals were "domesticated" and hybridized over decades is the problem here. Like the potato, they've become highly inbred...a factor which indirectly contributed to the potato blight. There are actually genetic tests for determining the degree of heterozygosity in an organism, at least in mammalian genetics. (Amusingly enough, this is part of the '23andme' testing service. Yes, you can find out how inbred you are compared to other people) It would be interesting to compare annual hybrids with their wild-native, parent species. |
I plant hundreds of impatiens every year and first had symptoms and some dying plants in 2011. Thought it was animal damage. Last year, my plants begain to die at an alarming rate. I went online and discovered the cause. All contracted the disease, the containers and hanging baskets last. After all that money and labor, I had to pull all out and put them in trash bags--heartbreaking. Yes, I'm very annoyed at the large, well-known nursery that sold them last year and should not have This was not a big-box store and there was no way they did not know what was afoot. My one clump--six plants-- of New Guinea impatiens was unaffected but they are too expensive to replace I. wallerana. The surprise to me as a longtime gardener is that pests or disease have not struck impatiens sooner as they are so widely grown and planted. This was a disaster waiting to happen. And despite the good intentions of many, there really is no replacement for the profuse color and easy care of impatiens. |
- Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on Tue, Apr 23, 13 at 12:54
If you owned a store, would you be the first to NOT have them? Do you think people would be satisfied with your explanation? The mom'n'pop garden center here in town has a great selection of them, one of about 10 diff annuals you can buy there, the same as every year, about every store. "They" will sell whatever people will buy, (like the trays of Hedera helix at WM yesterday,) and many people may buy more Impatiens if they keep dying and don't bother to find out why. Sure, there are some altruistic retailers out there, but the bottom line is the bottom line, if you look at it from the other end. The simple facts are that there's still plenty of healthy Impatiens out there, from somewhere, and people are buying them. Those who know about the mildew know they are gambling, but when you get to the end of the thought process, is there really any harm in that? Not to be too controversial, I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other, but wonder... if this one plant is the only known one susceptible to this pathogen, why not use them unless/until the germ shows up at your house? What is the benefit of NOT doing that, if any, besides the obvious financial/visual gamble? Further imagine enough people did it so that it didn't show up in any new spots - a completely ridiculous stretch of the imagination considering something spread by the blowing of the wind, and the certainty that people are going to move plants around, and that the ones for sale would likely travel through infected areas on their way to stores in non-infected areas. Anyway, then what? How long would everyone need to wait until it was safe to go back to normal? Is there really any righteousness or "for the greater good" possible in extremely small numbers of widely scattered people not using them "just in case?" At this point I don't want to bring any new ones home since I don't like the odds of the gamble, but some potted roots I thought were dead have sprouted new foliage, and I see a few sprouts around. Who's going to buy some, love them enough to "see what happens?" |
- Posted by gamountains (My Page) on Tue, Apr 23, 13 at 16:20
I have one local nursery selling it this year whom I had a lot of respect for until they claimed this years crop has been "treated at the source" before it arrived at their place. What that means is anyone's guess. Maybe they found the solution? I'm still too confused. |
gamtns, I read a lot about this fairly recently. The growers with a conscience were using a very intensive fungicide treatment program in their greenhouses. Maybe, just maybe, maintaining a rigorous program in a home garden will protect them. I'm not a completely organic gardener, but pretty darn close, and know I don't want to plant something I'll be a slave to. Also, since the virus is airborn, my plants could be contaminated by my neighbors. In short, I feel sad that I won't be seeing impatiens all over the place. They are so wonderfully colorful in a shade garden. My son-in-law owns a commercial landscape company - lots of big color beds, will not be planting the first impatiens this year and probably not for several years, until plant scientists cure this. Of course, commercial companies guarantee their plantings and would incur huge expenses in replacing. Rosie, in Sugar Hill, GA (north Atlanta metro) |
I'll buy 2 or 3 packs of a certain red & white one I get every year. If they die they die. I won't get any more.Simple as that.Would I fill every shady spot on the place with impatiens ? No. Rose |
- Posted by gamountains (My Page) on Sat, Apr 27, 13 at 9:58
Rosiew: Like I've said before, I think...The disease almost comes to a stop when warm, humid weather hits. I watched it very closely last year where a few batches did surprisingly well in two areas on my property. I'm gonna give the nursery a try. They did claim this years crop order was considerably less because of the problem. If they last 2-3 months I'm fine by it, but I won't buy more than a few dozen If you get anywhere near MaCaysville, check it out. With their growing conditions (perfect) you can pick up four packs (May) that are two to three times the size of the pint containers sold at Lowes & HD for the same price. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Quinns Greenhouse
- Posted by mainegard3 5b-6a (My Page) on Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 11:31
What has been everyone's experience with Downy Mildew this year with impatiens? It's been very wet and humid this summer and I'm surprised they haven't started to decline yet here in Maine. |
- Posted by rosiew 8 GA (firstname.lastname@example.com) on Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 13:39
Will try to remember to check the only ones I've seen planted in my small neighborhood, potted on a porch. We've had seemingly nonstop rain and being Georgia, of course humid. |
- Posted by teengardener1888 NY Albany 5a (My Page) on Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 14:27
I love impatients and have never had problems with mildew, in fact my one pot of them are doing wonderful, I have heard about this disease |
- Posted by Donna.in.Sask 2b (My Page) on Mon, Jul 22, 13 at 21:50
I plant impatiens in the same spot every year and also potted up on the deck. I was looking at my potted ones today and noticed they weren't as heathy as they were a few weeks ago. Checked the undersides of a leaf and, yes, my plants have downy mildew. I will be getting rid of all my impatiens plants tonight. So sad, they've always done so well for me. |
- Posted by susanzone5 z5NY (My Page) on Wed, Jul 24, 13 at 18:32
I have one plant in a planter with torenia and it's doing fine.... so far! |
Here in California known for its low humidity, the local news contained a warning that Downy Mildew has arrived. Al |
- Posted by gamountains (My Page) on Thu, Jul 25, 13 at 16:13
I planted a dozen or so from six packs a few months ago in the same spots they failed last year against popular belief that the soil would be affected for years to come. No effect whatsoever. Growing just as well as previous years. This batch came from Lowes. I suppose it's more of your mileage will always vary. Similar to the way plants in general grow. They may do miserably on one side of the house and great on the other. At this point in time time I'm not holding back next year. |
- Posted by Donna.in.Sask 2b (My Page) on Fri, Aug 9, 13 at 11:47
I was in Vancouver last week and saw impatiens everywhere...not one sign of Downy Mildew. Don't know if their climate has anything to do with it, but I know I won't be buying these again for many years. |
My seed-grown ones are fine so far.... |
- Posted by princessgrace79 8 (My Page) on Sun, Aug 18, 13 at 12:26
I have them in a few spots and they are doing well like gangbusters! I'm in Portland, OR though (similar climate to vancouver as previous person mentioned). Low humidity in the summer and its been an even drier than normal spring and summer. |
UHOh! Apparently the dreaded impatiens virus has been found in a town near me.There was a piece in the paper by a member of the garden club. My garden buddy who lives in that town had several impatiens in pots .I gave them to her. I haven't talked to her yet & am anxious to see if hers are still OK. Rose |
- Posted by rosiew 8 GA (email@example.com) on Fri, Aug 30, 13 at 17:36
A friend in the Atlanta area told me this morning that 'all of a sudden her impatiens died'. She'd never heard about Downy Mildew. I told her to bag and dispose of everything. I sure do miss impatiens in my back garden. Rosie |
This thread has surely been interesting to follow these many months. I hope that we can keep posting our observations and experiences. |
- Posted by Donna.in.Sask 2b (My Page) on Mon, Sep 2, 13 at 2:13
I bagged and threw away my affected impatiens in all areas except for one row in my side yard. For some reason, I let those ones die naturally, but to my surprise, I found three plants still alive and when I checked the underside of the leaf, they were not coated in white. I still won't plant any more but it was interesting to see that a few managed to fight it off. |
- Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on Mon, Sep 2, 13 at 9:26
When a historical plague or flu wipes out most of a population of people, there are always a few individuals who are just somehow immune. I wonder if it is similar with plants and their diseases? Thought I'd lost mine to this last year, but it perked up, overwintered, and has been propagated and spread to various parts of the yard and several pots. May have just gotten too dry or wet last year, IDK. My Mom has a HUGE white one bought this spring. |
- Posted by susanzone5 z5NY (My Page) on Mon, Sep 2, 13 at 15:18
I have a gorgeous mauve impatiens that I didn't plant. It showed up in one of my container pots. I have no clue where this seed came from. The other plants have all passed away in their time and the pot is taken over by this amazingly healthy plant. The one I DID plant in a pot with torenia is still looking good, although it's being overrun by the torenia. Yes, plants can have natural, genetic disease resistance just like people. It's been raining a lot up here in the New York Catskill Mountains, too. |
- Posted by fieldofflowers 4a (MN) (My Page) on Thu, Oct 10, 13 at 21:18
I had a huge bed of impatiens that survived into October. At least until this last week, when we had a 3 day rainy spell. Now all have been infected. I suspect windblown spores from other areas and/or triggered by the change in temps. I have a question. I know walleriana will be a no go for next year, but could I try in a future year? How many years do the spores survive? Would I be safe to try walleriana impatiens in 2-3 years? Or does that mean forever? |
Field, researchers and plant breeders all over the world are working very hard to find or create disease resistant strains of Impatiens. The development of new cultivars takes a very long time since field testing can't be rushed. Once the testing has been completed, it will take a long time to build up enough propagation stock that the plants can be introduced to the world's market place. I'm sure that most of the major seed houses are hot on the track. It will be interesting to see what comes out in the future. Keep Googling for disease resistant impatiens; I expect that we'll begin seeing some worthy of trying pretty soon. I strongly suspect that the new Impatiens may be a hybrid and might |
If the "new" Impatiens are covered by a Plant Patent and associated reproduction restraints, they may be too expensive to replace the current seed-grown varieties. If you have a relatively large area to plant, it can be very expensive to fill that with grower-grown plants. I will be very surprised if truly disease resistant Impatiens become available in seed packets. I think a systemic fungicide might be a better solution. Has anyone tried the currently available systemic fungicides on existing strains of Impatiens? I realize that isn't an acceptable solution for organic gardeners, but not everyone is one. ZM |
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***Wheels and tires sold.***
Selling my wheels and tires off my 2010 TRD Sport. All have only 250 miles on them! Wheels are 17" Sport Alloys and come with center caps. No scratches on wheels at all. Tires are Bridgestone Dueler H/T 265/65R17s. TPMS not included. $500, would prefer local pickup. I'm located in Jackson, MS, but drive to Baton Rouge, LA fairly frequently. Let me know if you're interested and we can work out pick-up arrangements.