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This peer interview is with Trent M. Kays. You can follow him on Twitter @trentmkays. All links open in new windows. If you read this interview and find it interesting or useful, please take a moment to share it on your networks. Thank you.
Ernesto Priego: Can you describe who you are and what you do?
Trent M. Kays: I'm a writer, teacher, agitator, and PhD student (soon-to-be candidate) in the Department of Writing Studies at the University of Minnesota, where I teach and study things related to digital rhetoric, critical pedagogy, social movements, and the Internet. My writing appears in both scholarly and popular publications.
I do a lot of other things too. I'm a historical collector, once upon a time poet, bourbon drinker, judoka, and world traveler. I wasn't always these things, of course.
I was born in a small town just north of Santa Barbara, California (USA). I grew up next to a military base, and my upbringing certainly has affected how I view the world. In one way or another, most members of my immediate family have been involved with aerospace technologies and professions. My father is an influential member of his field and works with all sorts of cool missile things, though he wasn't always directly in this field. He was originally trained as an electrician, and he's still a master electrician today. My mother has worked as some form of technical writer or publishing official on a military base for most of her career, one of my grandfathers worked for NASA and the other was in the US Air Force and then worked for an aerospace company.
I grew up around people who often think like engineers, so this has given me an appreciation for brevity and the power of writing. It's one of the reasons I always wanted to be a writer. Writing creates, writing destroys, and writing allows one to belong. My family's early working-class background instilled in me an omnipresent feeling of privilege. I understand how lucky I am, and I understand how hard my family and I have worked to get to our current life circumstances. Despite my doctoral studies and being separated from my family by about 2000 miles, I understand and appreciate their impact on my life.
My studies allow me to travel and think about the world in amazing ways. Currently, my research is looking into the discourse practices of the Occupy Wall Street Movement, and even though my family isn't always interested in some political aspects of my research, they are still always interested because I'm doing something. This is important to me because I'm the first member of my family to go to college, complete college, go to graduate school, complete graduate school, and then go to doctoral school. There's a lot of pressure being the first in my family to go to college, graduate school, and doctoral school. I don't mind it, but I often feel like I have to be successful because I'm responsible for a new chapter in my family's autobiography.
EP: Tell us how you decided to enroll in your current program and department. What brought you there? Please do tell us as well what is 'digital rhetoric' and why it matters…
TMK: I never thought I would be a teacher. My original career path was leading me to government work, but during my undergraduate studies, I took a course in persuasive writing and got hooked. I had always considered myself a good writer; my mother always told me I wrote well as a child. After I completed my BA degrees–one in Professional & Technical Writing and the other in History–I decided to get my MA in the former. It was during my MA years that I really got a taste for teaching. The feeling was amazing. I was able to help struggling students become better writers, to help them become impassioned with their own studies, and work with them as equals. It was then that I knew I wanted to work with college students–or any students, really–and help them achieve their life goals. So, I decided to go to doctoral school.
The will to teach wasn't the only reason I went to doctoral school, of course. Another driving force behind my decision was that I wanted to understand how people used discourse to do things in their lives and in the greater public community. Therefore, I picked doctoral programs that would allow me to experiment with teaching while pursuing my interests in public discourse and sociality. I applied to nine programs across the United States and got into most of them. The first program to call me back was the one in Minnesota. I talked to the faculty and grad students there, visited the department, and I loved it. The people, culture, and program were a perfect fit for me.
Digital rhetoric? Well, that's a tough one. The definition is sometimes fraught with dissension amongst the peers in my field. I consider digital rhetoric to be the discourse practices (broadly defined) implemented in online and digital spaces. This includes visual communication, traditional text, online networked discourse, and methodologies for critical analysis of new media arising out of the digital age. These are quite broad and definitions abound. Some of my peers consider coding and other coding-related activities to be digital rhetoric; however, I don't consider that digital rhetoric. I consider those types of activities to be in the realm of software studies and critical code studies.
Digital rhetoric matters because it is the driving basis for rhetorical theory in the 21st century. It allows us to understand, analyze, and critique the evolution of discourse in online and digital spaces. It helps us think about how the Internet has changed discourse conventions among offline, online, and hybrid communities, identities, and narratives. This works its way into teaching, learning, and other aspects of educational practice. This differs in many ways from classical and modern rhetorical theory in that digital rhetoric isn't solely concerned with traditional print text and speech. Digital rhetoric forces us to think differently about how we communicate and contribute to contemporary and future knowledge systems.
I am, of course, boiling this down. I could talk for hours about rhetoric and 21st century discourse practices.
EP: I have no doubt of that! When we have thorough knowledge of something we often take for granted its importance- until we meet someone who does not have that knowledge… which brings me to Twitter, where I 'met' you. Please tell us why you use it– what's there for you, how do you use it…
TMK: Great questions. I joined Twitter when it originally became available in 2006; however, I didn't find it at all useful or interesting, so I deleted my account and moved on. But, after some time, I realized the value and rejoined in 2009. I've been on it every since, and my use of Twitter has only increased the longer I've been on it. I love Twitter. It's connected me with a diverse group of both scholars and non-scholars, people doing really interesting things, and global conversations that I might have otherwise missed. I use Twitter because it's a wonderful space for collaboration and discussion, friendships are made and lost there, and–in this way–Twitter is an excellent representation of augmented interactions.
I have another motive for being on Twitter: It's a great place for research. Some of my main research interests are enacted in the discourse communities present on Twitter. As I mentioned earlier, my current research is focused on the discourse practices of the Occupy Wall Street Movement, and I'm especially interested in how they leveraged social media (in particular, Twitter) and online discourse to affect offline action. The movement used social media in a particular way never seen before, and it's exciting to see the evolution of the discourse they used on Twitter to really bring action to the streets.
So, I have a heavy investment in Twitter. I've been able to collaborate with peers all over the world, make new friends and colleagues, and participate in dynamic discussions and debates (e.g. #fycchat, #digped, #edchat, etc). It's a wonderful tool. It seems I'm almost always on Twitter, and it's become more part of my identity than I initially thought it would. I've received job offers via Twitter, and my various writings have been amplified through the network I've developed there. It's a must have space for any public intellectual (or aspiring one!).
I know some don't see the value or have trouble "getting it." To them I would say: be patient and give it a chance. Social media is only as social as we make it. It can't automatically be social for us. It's about connection–for better or worse–and it's about understanding the influence of networks on our everyday lives. I've heard people consider Twitter (and most social media) to be mundane, overly pedestrian, and silly. Those are all valid points. But, we shouldn't use Twitter for just those types of activities, or we shouldn't assume that all interactions will be mundane, etc. We should assume that every interaction is a valuable one. We should assume that those we encounter are worthy of our time, our graciousness, and our knowledge.
Too often, some online spaces can be poisonous. There was a great article a few years ago by John Suler titled, "The Online Disinhibition Effect." Basically, when our communication is mediated by computers and we are unable to be physically present in front of our fellow discussants, we have trouble interpreting social cues and, consequently, can act like real jerks. This is old news in the computer-mediated communication world, but it's still important to remember.
I only go into this detail because I don't want people to get discouraged or feel intimidated by those who broadcast on Twitter. Those interactions are insignificant compared to the great good the tool can help others enact. Revolutions have begun and ended on Twitter, governments have been toppled by social media use, and disasters have been better managed because of social networking. These are important and historic things, and we shouldn't forget them when our Twitter timeline fills with pictures of someone's eggs benedict or adorable cat (both of which I am guilty).
EP: You seem to have a more optimistic view of the power of social media than I do! I still see a huge disconnect between what happens on social media and what happens outside, "IRL". Not that both worlds don't co-exist, of course, or that social media is in any way "less real". But there's huge numbers not engaging in social media, and not only within Higher Education. Do we see social media through rose-tinted glasses sometimes you think? Or it might be that since these are still very early stages (relatively speaking) maybe there is not much room for critical nuance yet… Could you elaborate on this?
TMK: I have been accused of idealism, and I'm happy with that descriptor. In a lot of ways, I'm an idealist wrapped in a realist. I believe in the best parts of the Internet and the interactions we find there; however, I'm not so naive as to think that there isn't a negative or less than positive aspect to our online participation. There are plenty of examples where the Internet has facilitated interaction that resulted in negative consequences. There are prominent instances of cyberbullying and suicide, academic bullying and slander, and issues of social media-induced depression. Some of these things I grant more weight to than others.
Heck, I've been bullied and slandered by some academics on Twitter who take issue with my critiques. I usually just shrug them off. I'm proud to be a scholar-agitator. I hate the status quo, and I want to knock it down! Of course, not everyone agrees and, thus, friction arises with my more critical-sedentary peers. Despite these incidents, we often forget that without the human element, social media is nothing particularly significant. Humans place value in the tools used, and we can take that value away. I tolerate and welcome divisive and productive discussions because I know I'm communicating with another human being, and it is through our conversation that we come to define our discourse communities and social media use. That's valuable.
Unfortunately, many still argue that social media is simply an extension of the offline self or a complete separate self from their "IRL" self. This just isn't the case. They aren't separate things. This sort of binary allows people to dismiss what happens in online spaces as something different, something not always connected with responsibility. So, sometimes, I do think we look at social media through rose-tinted glasses, and it is because of this rose tint that the false dichotomy of offline and online selves continues to be perpetuated.
We hear or see this all the time. You hear pundits on news shows casually say, "Oh, it's just social media" or "Don't worry. They're just Twitter users." These types of dismissals are harmful to not only the great potential of social media but also to all sociality. It's at the crux of sociality and network that critical nuance can flourish. I don't think critical nuance is dependent on time from birth to adulthood. We can bring a critical eye to social media; however, I think there are too many pundits, teachers, and researchers who simply don't want to try. They see social media as a burden or a loneliness-inducing experience; but, one does not suddenly become lonely. It takes time to build and is present outside of social media spaces. (Can you tell I don't buy Sherry Turkle's latest argument?)
I'm not too worried about the slow crawl of some groups to contemporary social media; I just think many in those groups–higher education included–haven't had a chance to really jump in and explore, or perhaps they're afraid too. As networked educators and researchers, I believe it to be our job to offer a helping hand and show our colleagues, students, and friends that online social media spaces aren't scary or intimidating.
Most of the uncritical nuance I see thrown at social media is usually by those not deeply invested in its use or research into its use (e.g. news anchors, pundits, politicians, etc). But, like I mentioned before, I'm not too worried. I think we need to be patient and keep moving forward. At the very least, online interplay and social media forces us to reconsider how we interact outside of those spaces and in face-to-face circumstances, and that alone is worthy of our attention.
EP: To conclude, can you please share with us your vision of the future of Higher Education at an international level, and how you think we could get there?
TMK: My vision? That's a lofty request, or it feels lofty. Honestly, right now, I think higher education is heading into an uncertain future. It costs too much, there's hardly any government funding anymore, there are people living in parts of the world who don't have access, and it's seemingly becoming the playground for the privileged and financially well-off. It's a sad time to be in higher education because it seems the more we move into the 21st century the more we encounter antiquated thinking. The romantic idea of college still exists in the minds of some, and, unfortunately, the reality is far from romantic.
That being said, I think higher education around the world needs a serious reboot. We need to change, and we need to do so sooner rather than later. I am very Freirean in my perspectives: I firmly believe that education is a tool to help people liberate themselves from whatever oppresses them. But, the type of debt-slavery being reinforced in many areas of the world is frightening. It sets students up to fail. Couple that debt-slavery with no to low access and we have a very scary future.
This is why I sometimes get jumpy and agitate things: I don't want this future to happen. My vision of higher education is one where learning is treated as a process, where there are no grades and only assessment, where there are no tests that pigeonhole people, where the idea that everyone must go to college is no longer sold to children, and where professors' teaching and research responsibilities are equally weighted and valued.
My vision is one where universities serve the community out of which they arose, where students are always put first, and where government funding means significant financial investment. I want to see administrative bloat properly addressed, and I think it's time tenure was abolished in many contexts. We really need to focus on class size and strategically using technology, and we need to work toward making higher education freely available to students.
I know some of these things seem overly idealistic, but I wouldn't believe in them unless I thought we could achieve them. I believe in the very best of humanity, social media, and the Internet. I think we can get to these things by focusing on connecting with the public more, by engaging in hierarchy-smashing social media discussions, by being public intellectuals, and by becoming involved in the political processes that have financially divested higher education. These are all doable things. We can start doing them tomorrow, and they are not difficult.
We need to burn down the ivory towers and become truly egalitarian. We need to throw open the doors of knowledge, make all our work open access, and work to liberate the oppressed. That's my vision for the future of higher education. It's going to be a lot of hard work, sweat, and tears, but I believe it's achievable.
EP: Thank you for talking to us, Trent.


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Review: Blood Brothers, Leeds Grand Theatre, 18/07/2011
When?: Monday 18th July 2011
Where?: Leeds Grand Theatre, Dress Circle
Who?: Niki Evans, Craig Price, Sean Jones, Chris Carswell, Tracy Spencer, Kelly-Anne Gower, Daniel Taylor, Tim Churchill, Graham Martin, Joanne Dalladay, Jonathan Vickers, Karl Greenwood, Abby Simpson, Graeme Kinniburgh
Last night provided a welcome return to the show dubbed the 'standing ovation musical', Blood Brothers, Willy Russell's classic musical adaption of his own play set in 1980s Liverpool. When it premiered in 1983 this was a contemporary commentary piece, now in 2011 it is simply a great piece of theatre, accessible for younger viewers and equally enjoyable for the seasoned theatregoer, Blood Brothers could be considered the musical for the people.*
Returning after many years away from this, the most scouse of all musicals, I was simply blown away and reminded what a superb musical this really is – and just how moving it can be when done well. By the time Niki Evans, undoubtedly the star of the show, had finished belting out the anthemic 'Tell Me It's Not True', there was scarcely a dry eye** in the packed auditorium.
Blood Brothers tells the story of Mrs. Johnstone, a working class single mother who, when discovering she is to have twins, and struggling to provide for the children she already has, agrees to give one of the pair away to her infertile employer, the upper-middle class Mrs. Lyons. The twins, Mickey and Eddie, meet by chance aged 7 and swear to be 'blood brothers' for life. The rest of the play follows the twins through their teenage years, into adulthood and finally their tragic demise, as depicted at the start of the show; interestingly this is the second Kenwright touring musical in a week to open with with dead bodies on stage – never let it be said that musicals are frivolous or camp! Personally, in hindsight I wish that Grease had opened on a mass funeral – shortly followed by the curtain call – but I digress.
This tour seems to have undergone a revamp since my last visit and is looking in wonderful shape. The direction and comic timing is spot on and had the audience in fits of laughter, particularly amusing were Blood Brothers veteran Sean Jones as Mickey and Chris Carswell as a very endearing Eddie-ward. The sets thankfully appear to have been cleaned and maintained and looked fantastic from the dress circle and, importantly, there was a general freshness and energy to the performance which, again, is no mean feat after nearly 16 years on the road on-and-off. What never changes, but what also never ceases to amaze are the incredibly dated eighties synthesised effects, particularly the synthesised drums and over-use of reverb and echo utilised to support the incredibly small 'orchestra', the scale of which is made all the more apparent in the context of the Leeds Grand's enormous pit.
Former talent show hopeful Niki Evans excels as Mrs. Johnstone. Her vocals, in particular, are the finest I have had the fortune to hear in the role. She belts out her numbers with gusto; "Easy Terms" was beautiful and moving and she freed the shackles and let rip in "Bright New Day", pulling off some truly impressive soul-inspired belting. Her acting, whilst subtle compared to the numerous Nolans', was entirely believable and considered.
Faced with the unenviable task of replacing the definitive Keith Burns as the omnipresent Narrator, Craig Price faltered somewhat in the first act, perhaps feeling a little too laid back – overheard audience interval comments included a comparison with an insurance salesman (sans the intensity). Price really pulled it out of the bag in the second act however and impressed in later scenes – perhaps that was the plan all along. Kelly-Anne Gower is fine as the long term love interest of the twins Linda, having some nice moments as she transforms from child, to flirtatious teenager to 'drudgery' as she becomes a woman.
The show certainly earned its crowd pleasing moniker with a unanimous standing ovation.
Blood Brothers plays the Leeds Grand Theatre until 23/07/2011
- Harry Zing
*Many of the overriding themes such as class division, superstition and religion are timeless; it is these themes which helped the text be included in the GCSE national syllabus, making this tour very popular with school groups and helping guarantee the show's future.
**Unfortunately, there was a mobile phone incident in the final scenes, but this did not distract too much from the emotional engagement with the performance. I do not know of a regional theatre who make 'turn off your phones' announcements at intervals like is standard on Broadway – I would think this would stop similar incidents..
One Response to "Review: Blood Brothers, Leeds Grand Theatre, 18/07/2011"
22/07/2011 at 00:05I went to see Blood Brothers in Leeds on Wednesday and was lucky enough to get front row seats, I was amazed and lost for word at how incredible the cast were. Niki Evans performance was breathtaking, Sean Jones as Micky was so funny, heartfelt and moving which in my book makes him brilliant and Kelly Anne Gower as Linda was just perfection. I loved it and would go watch this casts performance any time.

subset: commoncrawl


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Ok, I'm very new to linux and I'm trying to run UT2004. I've installed it correctly and it seems to be ok....BUT....when I click the ut2004.sh file, (i'm running Mandriva ...
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trying to run UT2004
X1600 card, and I don't know what to do after that. Where do I go?, What do I use?, etc. PLEASE help me. I wan't to get as far away from Windows as I can.


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As Bellator approaches their next middleweight tournament, Brian Rogers is ready to show a new kind of animal that all 185lb fighters should fear. read news >>
"The Professional Predator" gets back into the Bellator cage tonight against Rafael Carvalho at the Save Mart Arena in Fresno, Calif., and he spoke to MMAmania.com about his move from Ohio to Colorado and future MMA plans. Brian Rogers was seeking some changes in his life and in January, the Bellator veteran departed from the Strong Style Gym, packed up his life in Ohio, and headed out west to Denver, Colorado, to join Factory X. Rogers stayed with friend and new teammate Chris Camozzi until May read news >>
Having bounced between wins and losses during his Bellator tenure, Brian Rogers is looking to start a streak and make a run at the middleweight belt. read news >>
Bellator middleweight Brian Rogers speaks like he fights, aggressively and in your face. He says he can take anyone at 185, especially champ Alexander Shlemenko. Filed under: Bellator, News read news >>
Brian Rogers has now gotten a third opponent for Bellator 125 after Brett Cooper suffered an injury and was replaced with Rafael Carvalho, officials announced on Tuesday. read news >>
The game of musical chairs has continued for Brian Rogers at Bellator 125 next week. With Brett Cooper now out, Rogers gets Rafael Carvalho. Filed under: Bellator, MMA Rumors, News read news >>
Brett Cooper is out of his middleweight clash against Brian Rogers at Bellator 125 after suffering a back injury. read news >>
The worldwide leader for mixed martial arts and UFC news, MMA News, UFC Rumors, MMA Rankings, Interviews, Videos, UFC Results, and UFC Blog read news >>
Newport Beach, Calif. (August 29, 2014) - After originally preparing to face James Irvin at Bellator 125 on September 19th, Brian Rogers will now turn his attention to Bellator veteran Brett Cooper as Irvin has suffered a leg injury that will force the California native out of the fight. The night will be headlined by a middleweight clash as Melvin "No Mercy" Manhoef squares off against Doug "The Rhino" Marshall. Tickets for the event are on sale now and can be purchased at the Save Mart Center read news >>
An injury has forced a change to the co-main event of next month's Bellator 125. An injury has knocked middleweight James Irvin from his fight with Brian Rogers, and Brett Cooper will step in.Filed under: Bellator, MMA Rumors, News read news >>
James Irvin is out of his middleweight clash against Brian Rogers at Bellator 125 after suffering a leg injury. read news >>
Bellator's Season 8 tournament represented middleweight Brian Rogers' third attempt at taking his MMA career to the next level, and the third time his plans went awry. read news >>
A smarter Brian Rogers enters his third Bellator middleweight tournament at Bellator 89 tonight from The Bojangles' Coliseum in Charlotte, NC. read news >>


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Premiere: Free Download of New SONOIO "Scientist" Remix
Alessandro Cortini's side-project SONOIO has premiered a remix of the track "Scientist," available exclusively from MXDWN. The original track appeared on SONOIO's Red album, released in May 2011. Listen to the exclusive release after the jump.
Today's exclusive release comes from SoCal techno artist Drumcell, whose commitment to electronic tools like FX processors, samplers, and drum machines make him a natural fit for SONOIO's sound. Check out MXDWN's exclusive premiere of the "Scientist" remix here.
SONOIO began in early 2010 as collaboration between Cortini, best known for his touring and recording relationship with industrial rock group Nine Inch Nails, and a Buchla Electric Music Box. His latest efforts utilize another previously obsolete instrument, the Buchla Analog Synthesizer. Cortini took these largely forgotten instruments and, with both the Music Box and the Synth, reminded us of the roots of artistry through electronic manipulation of sound.
By limiting the tools used in the recording process to the innovative but cumbersome Buchla instruments, Cortini has shaped a sound and composition style that is both controlled and expanded by the limitations of the instruments.
"The whole composition process felt like a chess game, where I would make a move, trying to compose in a certain way, only to be antagonized by either the limitations of the instrument, or its quirkiness," says Corti. "This 'back and forth' process led me to composing the bulk of the Blue and Red SONOIO records, allowing me to create something unique sounding, yet familiar and memorable."
SONOIO's release of the Blue remixes, NON SONOIO in December of last year marked collaboration with artists like Ladytron, with whom SONOIO toured throughout September and October of 2011.
Stay tuned for more information on remix releases from SONOIO's Red, and check out the video of another Red track, "Enough," below.
SONOIO – Enough from Alessandro Cortini on Vimeo.
Search for Alessandro Cortini albums on AmazonPosted in News
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Registration for Professionals & Faculty to attend is $40. Students are FREE. Although STUDENT AND Haudenosaunee community members fees are complimentary, pre-registration is REQUIRED.
This conference is part of the State University of New York's "Conversations in the Disciplines." "Conversations" funds intercampus conferences which bring together State University faculty and visiting scholars to examine new trends, review promising findings, and better acquaint them with professional developments in their fields and on other campuses. By such interchange, both the professional and personal growth of individuals and the programs of instruction and research at participating campuses are enhanced.
Central New York is at the geographic and historical confluence of two great intellectual traditions regarding the stewardship of the earth. The Haudenosaunee people hold the rich ecological knowledge of the original inhabitants of this landscape, which is referred to by scholars as traditional ecological knowledge or TEK. The Haudenosaunee Environmental Task Force (HETF). has been actively researching criteria and implementation guidelines for environmental sustainability, based on the traditional philosophical principles of their cultural foundations, the Thanksgiving Address and the Great Law of Peace. Likewise, the Onondaga Nation has envisioned a strategy of ecological and cultural restoration for their ancestral territory. The Conversation we propose here provides a rare forum in which indigenous leaders of the region can share their perspectives with the academic community and potentially influence the future development of sustainability philosophy and practice. Universities in the region, particularly SUNY ESF embody the contributions of SEK, or scientific ecological knowledge. In 2007, ESF initiated the Center for Native Peoples and the Environment whose mission is to create programs that draw on the wisdom of both indigenous and scientific knowledge in support of our shared goals of environmental sustainability. The Center will serve as host for Conversations on the Land. It is being organized through the Central NY Native American Studies Consortium.
The scholarly exchange will bring together academic scholars from a range of perspectives, as well as indigenous thinkers and leaders from throughout New York State, to think and work together about one of our most pressing concerns. The question of ecological sustainability, or how to obtain the resources required for human flourishing without damaging the ecological base on which all flourishing ultimately depends, is among the most significant issues of our time. Together we will explore how we might bring to bear, the power of two great intellectual traditions, for our shared concerns of environmental sustainability.
The Goals of the Conference:
We welcome your participation at Outreach events. Pre-registered, pre-paid registrants are asked to check in at the onsite registration desk to receive a name badge and any handouts. Effective May 2008, registration fees must be paid prior to admittance.
This program is sponsored by a SUNY Conversation in the Disciplines grant, ESF Center for Native Peoples and the Environment, Syracuse University, SUNY Native American Western Consortium and the Central New York Native American Consortium, SUNY Cortland, Lemoyne College, Syracuse CoE: Excellence in Environmental & Energy Systems Innovations


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Timor: Missing Journalists
Notwithstanding continuing pressure I am afraid we are still not getting far on the journalists. We are fully aware of the difficulties this is causing you in Canberra and of the likelihood that the Minister may need to be critical in public of Indonesia's handling of this matter. We have of course impressed this on the Indonesians assuring them that we want to avoid this if possible.
- Despite his undertaking to let me have further definite information early this week, General Yoga has not done so and has left Jakarta for a meeting in Kuala Lumpur without telling me. He is not expected back until the evening of 7 November.
- Generals Murtopo and Moerdani who could be helpful have been overseas but they are due back today and I shall of course try and see either or both as soon as possible.
- Malik, Alatas and Adenan returned from Rome last night. I have asked to see Malik as soon as possible about the Rome talks and the journalists and, hopefully, will do so tomorrow.
- I do not think the Indonesians are being deliberately inaccessible at this stage but they are behaving in a very Javanese, touchy and unhelpful way on the journalists. This is compounded somewhat by a general disenchantment with the way the Timor situation has developed and with what they regard as Australia's over-active and unhelpful role in Timor in contrast to the reactions of other countries within and outside the region.
- In the absence of all of the above-mentioned I saw the Director-General, Political Affairs, Djajadiningrat, yesterday evening 5 November. I went through the whole issue again with him stressing the urgent need our Minister had to be able to make an acceptable public statement on the matter in Australia and our obvious obligations to the next-of-kin.
- I also said that Indonesia's reluctance to help seemed to me to be damaging Indonesia's own interest and was giving credence to reports in the media in Australia that the journalists had been shot by Indonesian forces. Djajadiningrat reacted strongly to the latter comment saying that the journalists were with Fretilin forces and that this story was Fretilin propaganda which was not uncommonly given good coverage in the Australian media as though it were the truth. He blandly repeated the denial that Indonesian troops were engaged in Timor.
- I told Djajadiningrat that the whole situation was most unsatisfactory to us. He and I had known each other for years. If Australian/Indonesian relations were as close and as soundly based as we said they were, then surely we should be frank with each other on an issue like this. What value would people in Australia place on our close relations if we could not secure Indonesia's help when we needed it on an issue like this?
- Djajadiningrat said he took the point. But it was 'very difficult'. He then went through the usual legal and climatic arguments about Balibo being in Portuguese territory, the monsoons, bad roads, no bridges, difficult communications etc. between Indonesian and Portuguese Timor. I said that we could not accept this. We knew through our own contacts that several Indonesian journalists had been able to reach Balibo within a few days of the battle in which the Australian journalists were apparently killed. If Indonesian journalists could do so, why could not proper information be obtained and passed on to us by Indonesian officials? Djajadiningrat could not answer this but repeated that it was 'difficult'. He would however do all he could with BAKIN and HANKAM to assist.
- He asked, what did we really want? I said that as he knew we had been through all this before. But in essence we wanted confirmation of death, perhaps by way of an eye-witness account, possibly from the UDT Commander, of how the Australians died. We also wanted information on the methods of identification of the bodies.We also wanted the bodies themselves or any remains. Finally we wanted all personal effects including passports, documents, cameras, etc.
- Djadiningrat said he personally understood our problem and repeated he would do his best. But the answer would really have to come through BAKIN. I said we knew this and had been in daily contact with BAKIN. He also said that whatever we might think Indonesia's influence over UDT was not absolute and communications in the area, especially now, were appalling.
- I turned to the question of Malik's offer of a plane and the Rodgers visit. Djajadiningrat was obviously embarrassed by this. He said he did not know what the offer of a plane to fly members of our staff to Kupang or Atambua could achieve. I said that our Minister wanted to accept the offer which Malik had made publicly. In any case we would be sending Rodgers to Kupang as early as possible by commercial means unless the offered Indonesian plane materialised before then. (Rodgers is in fact leaving this evening 6 November.) Djajadiningrat said all he could do would be to take the matter up again with the Minister after his return.
[NAA: A10463, 801/13/11/5, i]


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Performance of "Oklahoma" - Angola, NY
Friday, November 16, 2012, 7:30 PM
Friday, October 19, 6:30 PM - MPB Singles Ministry Will venture out for our this gathering to see "Oklahoma" at Immaculata Acadamy on South Park Avenue. Tickets are available now through the school office and online also. Prices are $20, $15 or $10 depending on location in the auditorium. We will attempt to obtain the least expensive seats available for our group together. A few are planning on having dinner together before the show. If interested, please contact 549-0420 or at your earliest opportunity for your rsvp or more information, as we will purchase the tickets by November 9th. Car pooling will be available. Don't miss this fun outing! Looking forward to all you singles joining us!