text:
Customer Feedback
Send us your comments, we appreciate all your thoughts and ideas. Click here to write to us. Or you can email us at email@example.com. By writing to us you agree to allow us to post your comments. Thanks.
View more customer reviews at bizrate.com, click here.
I must admit that I'm not very vigilant when it comes to taking advantage of your attractive offers, but I would rather suffer the consequences of paying a bit more for your products than being hustled by other on-line companies. One of my pet peeves is to see "regular" prices artificially inflated by other sites to make sale ones appear more attractive. Even then, your prices on my favorite cigars are still lower than those companies' and I salute you for being straight up. You have my business...thanks.
Richard – Tennessee
Received cigars today. Thanks for a great transaction.
Ken – Massachusetts
I'll be short - NO OTHER SITES ANYMORE! 2nd order - Everything is just FINE! God bless U, CigarPlace.biz
Gregory - Russia
Thanks heaps for the great service, 7 days from order to smoke in Australia. Great packaging also, I have had customs issues with other stores. No issues here !!!!! Very happy.
Sean - Australia
I ordered one week ago. My package prepared 3 days and shipped. Shipping took 6 days, Miami to Turkey, it is record! Cigars in zip bag and water pillow very good packaging. Very fast shipping, best packaging and no custom issues. Thank you CigarPlace.
Burak - Turkey
Just ordered my first box of cigars. Very pleased with the quick turn around and shipping as promised. Cigar Place had the best prices I could find anywhere on Padron. Looking forward to receiving my cigars!
Doug - Texas
I was recommended to you by a friend and what a great recommendation. I buy cigars regularly from the States but it's always a complicated hit and miss process. Yours is by far the simplest and most reassured service and I will certainly start to place all my future orders through you. Thanks for a great service.
Jamie - Great Britain
Just letting you guys know that our shipment was received today! Have already enjoyed one this evening and look forward to placing another order with you guys soon. May I take the opportunity to thank you again for your customer service and comprehensive and caring follow up until receipt for the order. It has been a pleasure doing business with you and we look forward to placing many orders with you in the future! Have a great weekend! Wishing all the staff at Cigar Place happy smoking and long ashes!
Tim - Australia
Received my first order yesterday. Thank you so much for an excellent service. You have a new loyal customer from Sweden. I see no reason buying from someone else than Cigar Place. Thanks again.
Joachim – Sweden
WOW!!! Your company is super prompt, with processing and shipping my order!!!! Grade AAAAAA, service!!!!!
Dana – Minnesota
A week ago I ordered the Padron 1926 Maduro Sampler & it just arrived in excellent condition & discreet packaging. Thank you guys, will be ordering from you soon again!!!
Dimitris – Greece
Hi friends, I like to tell you how pleased I am with your excellent service, this is my third purchase from you, and again I received my sticks very fresh, perfectly wrapped and faster than I expected, it's a shame I can't buy more than 25 pieces per order (customs restrictions) I wish I could buy a 100. I will keep buying from you. Thank you very very much. You rule in cigar business.
Nisim – Mexico
Just wanted to say a massive thank-you!! The cigars where outstanding straight out of the box. More impressive was the shipping. Very fast and very very 'custom's friendly'. Couldn't be happier and i wont be using any other website ever again. You have found a very loyal customer. I have used c*.com (hopeless, custom service terrible), f* smoke and that smiley guy site. I heard about your site from some other Aussie's. What impressed me, more than the quality of cigars, was your attention to detail. What you guys did to make my package 'customs friendly' was outstanding and that's why I'll keep using your business exclusively.
Adam – Australia
Hi there. Got my 2 boxes of cigars on Wednesday. They were in great shape. The customer service is great. I could not ask for any better prices or service. Thank you.
David – Indiana
I love your service, I ordered some cigars Friday evening Norwegian time and got a package 4 hours ago (Tuesday). If my sister sends me a package from my hometown which is in Sweden about 500 miles from here with no water in between it will take 7-10 Days. You are my one and only cigar dealer.
Stefan - Norway
Just got my first CP order in the mail today, couldn't be happier! GREAT customer service, great prices, top notch packaging (well sealed, humidipak, foam peanuts, sturdy box) and real shipping rate charged : what more could anyone want? I'll be a repeat customer for sure!
Sebastien - Canada
Amazing! Everyone should buy cigars from here. Experience exceeded my expectation. Please understand, I usually don't write in compliments. Every order I have made has been the best pricing and best delivery options. Just got some Prensados. Great price thanks to one the your frequent sales and $1 shipping!!! The best part is that your shipping to arrive within the three days. Anyone else would have dropped in some mailbox. Great service, great price, and great selection! Keep it up!
Bill - California
Just received my first order from CigarPlace and I must say, the timing was very punctual and the cigars very fresh. I was a bit optimistic when I first purchased because the prices of the cigars were so low, probably the lowest I've found online so far, but I most certainly do not regret the purchase on bit. I can definitively say that I will continue to purchase from CigarPlace and recommend it to all my cigar aficionado friends. With such an extensive selection of stogies at a more than reasonable price, I would be doing them a injustice not too!
Brian - Colorado
European customer and very impressed with shipping, the cigars, care taken about safe delivery and the prices are far and away the best I have found after using many other sites. I'm well pleased.
Colin - United Kingdom
Received the cigars today. In a Very Good condition. Double sealed with water pillow. Overall very fast delivery considering i choose the slowest shipping option. Ordered on Jan 9th, received Jan 25th. Will definitely consider CigarPlace for future needs.
Harris - Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
A massive thank you to all the Team at Cigarplace.biz My package arrived safely and incurred no added hassle. Delivery time to the UK was roughly over a week. Thank you for fulfilling my order, I look forward to using you again.
Simon – London, UK
Dear staff at CP, just received my first parcel of cigars! Cigars are fresh and in superb condition. No problems with customs and taxes (this shows how experienced in international shipping you are). Just wanted to say that you guys are doing your job very very well. No doubt you will be my most favorite cigar dealer. See you soon.
Augustinas - Lithuania
I received my cigars yesterday. I ordered them on early Friday morning. I would like to thank you for such speedy service. That is why you are my favorite vendor. Of course your low prices also helps. LOL Thanks.
John – Mississippi
After ordering with you I wanted to offer a customer feedback quite for you to use should you wish: Ordering from CigarPlace was an absolute pleasure, first off I was blown away by the excellent selection you folks carry, the prices are fantastic and the speed of delivery left me stunned. I can't recommend you enough - although I'm doing my best with anyone who asks me where to by cigars from! Merry Christmas to all of you.
Liam – United Kingdom
Best deal period on San Lotanos and most of your products. They arrive on time and very fresh!! Recommend to my friends... thanks
Tim – Texas
Today I received the shipment of cigars and the Ashtray in an excellent condition. I want to thank you for the extremely fast shipment and the fast reply on my email. t's a pleasure doing business with you and I hope that in the near future we can do business again.
Rene – New Zealand
Hi, I got my cigars today. Everything was great. I will definitely order again.
Srdjan – Serbia
I'd like to tell you all how happy I am with your service and products. I had just placed my order this Monday, and here I am on Wednesday smoking the cigars! I NEVER expected my order to arrive so FAST - and so FRESH!
Alan - Pennsylvania
Dear CP, I received my order of Gran Habano cigars today! i am impressed with the stellar service you have provided! i look forward to a long term customer relationship with you.
Enrique - California
Just wanted to say you have the best Acid case prices. Hope they stay the lowest out there. I refer here whenever cigars are talked about.
Phil - Illinois
Happy new year from Norway!! Your package arrived safely at my door 30 min. ago. No extra taxes, and ultra fast delivery. 8 days from Florida to the west coast of Norway, that's what I call service. I will most certainly recommend your store to my Norwegian friends!
Bjarte - Norway
Julian, Cigars showed up on Saturday - Thank you very much for the prompt delivery - I'm very impressed by the customer service and willingness to help me out on a holiday weekend. If you are ever are looking for a customer testimonial, let me know - you are by far the best cigar retailer I've dealt with online! Many thanks.
Mitch - Wisconsin
Hi Julian, the cigars arrived yesterday just a little over a week since I ordered them, which was great. The cigars are really great too. You provide an amazing service.
Lee - Great Britain
Just to let you know, I just received my order and have to say this was the best online cigar purchase form the U.S to Canada I have ever had, you responded promptly, sent the confirmation of shipping promptly and I had delivery in under two weeks (order on Aug 7, received on Aug 19). This was the absolute fastest I have ever received a cigar order from other cigar suppliers in Florida or any part of the U.S. You are now my "Go To" place for cigars and I will definitely recommend you, great website, great variety of cigars and accessories and the service is outstanding.
Ken - Canada
Thank you for your great service! I have got my parcel today as a gift and everything went well through customs. I have never seen such a great understanding of a customer needs. I will keep looking for new purchases for you!!
Povilas - Lithuania
Hi, I got the package today, everything was in great shape! Thank you so much and I look forward to doing business with you guys again.
Jason - Japan
Thank you for your work. Got your cigars, they are excellent quality. I am very pleased.
Aleksey - Russia
Hi, Just got some cigars from you guys and it's just amazing how you guys work! Good job, and I love these cigars!
Takeshi - Japan
I ordered on Monday, got great prices on two boxes of my favorites at 30% off on a promo, and received early Wednesday, plus $1 shipping. Now that's good quality customer service! Thank you very much.
Bill - California
Hi, I have got today the cigars & lighter, both in wonderful condition & no problems with the customs. Thank you. Hopefully it's a beginning of a long & good relationship.
Simcha - Israel
I received today my order. It is in a perfect condition. I want to thank you, and all the CigarPlace staff, for the excellent service. I can't wait to buy cigars with you again. Gracias por todo.
Francisco - Mexico
Wow - what service! I just rec'd them this afternoon. Thanks so much.
Randy - California
Hi Julian! The cigars arrived today!!! Thank you very much for the again perfect service!
Michael - Austria
Cigars just arrived and they look great with no extra tax. Thanks a bunch. We will do business again. Cheers!
Brad - Canada
Received last week in perfect condition. A-1 Service and I highly recommend your establishment to all my Cigar buddies.
Christopher - Virginia
Yesterday my friend called me, he was so happy! The cigars arrived well, and I want to thank you. It was a pleasure doing business with
you and I will order again in the future!
Joachim - Belgium
Package arrived in perfect condition today with no harrassing from Customs. Thank you very much for the swift and nice delivery!
Jukka - Finland
You are awesome! Placed an order this morning. I have referred many friends to your site and will continue to do so. You guys are the best! Have a great Thanksgiving.
Kriss - California
Hi, got them happily today, without any hassle, thank you so much for your kind help! :-) The package was very well packed. I will order soon some more.
Matti - Czech Republic
Thank you, my 1st order with you guys arrived safely in NZ today. I appreciate the discrete packaging which avoided hassles with Customs. You have found yourself another loyal customer. I look forward to making many orders with you in the future. Thanks again
Joe - New Zealand
As usual, the tray of Patel Edge Corojo Toros arrived quickly and in perfect condition. You guys are the best...Thank you."
Michael - New York
With all the competition among internet cigar retailers Cigarplace.biz has always stood alone as a price leader while your service has always delivered as promised, i.e. reasonable shipping rates, quick turnaround and fresh-upon-delivery cigars. Now, with your rapid response to my question and your suggestions for my order, along with the offer to honor the $1 shipping policy, I must amend what I said about your service to also include truly knowing and caring about your customer(s) and a policy aimed at achieving nothing less than total customer satisfaction. Kudos to you (Julian) and your company! I'm looking forward to my next e-mail from you as I know then that my cigars
are in stock. Keep up the fantastic job you're doing.
Craig - Colorado
Hi there, just wanted to let you know I received my package today, without any interference from customs or anything .. since this was my first order from you, I was a bit curious as to how the packaging would be, and of course also how the cigars would survive the trip - let me just say that this order will definitely not be the last one!! I'm very pleased with my shopping experience with cigarplace.biz :)
kind regards from a very happy customer
Carsten - Denmark, Europe :)
Thank you very much for your fantastic service. Your loyal customer.
Ahmed - United Arab Emirates
Just received my bundle of Flor De Copan Robusto Maduro. I love these cigars. Solid flavorful cigars that draw well, burn evenly. I smoked a couple of boxes years ago for about $10 a stick, your bundles allow me to smoke these for less than $3 cdn. Thank you! You guys rock!
Jacques - Canada
I would just like to thank you for the personal attention given to my purchases. Every time I make a purchase service has been impeccable,
whether it be a simple web order or a somewhat special order. I really enjoy doing business with you and will continue in the future. Thanks
for the service.
Ronald - California
Just a quick note to let you know my order was delivered to me in Australia today. Due to the great care, attention and service you employ, the cigars were in perfect condition and have gone straight into my humidor (well all but one!). Buying from you turned out to be far more economical than I imagined, and for that, I am both pleased and grateful to you. I look forward to the exact same service in the future.
Martin - Australia
Thank you for my order. I will use your service again and recommend you to my friends. Great job. I felt like you went the extra mile.
Todd - California
Got my order very quickly. A special thanks to Julian who was a very big help in finding the product I was searching for. Thank you.
Bill - California
Today I got my parcel! It has made really long way till I get it and cigars are in perfect condition, like always! What can I say... It's good to be your customer :) I will let you know when I get all parcels of my order. Thanks for your help!
Igor - Lithuania
Wow !!! Who thought I would really get a response from you guys. I think you guys really are a TOP SHELF outfit. I'm a customer forever. Thanks again for your quick response. A very, very, happy customer.
David - New York
You guys do a super job! Dependable, prompt and an excellent selection and help when it comes to picking the right ones for me! Thanks.
Niall - Canada
First time order from Canada. Got the Tatiana La Vita Vanilla. Very nice smoke. Fresh as promised. A word of advice for my fellow Canadians. Be patient in waiting for your order. Don't pay any attention to USPS tracking number as I received my cigars and according to tracking number they hadn't left Florida. Realistically takes 10 days to 2 weeks. I did call customer service a couple times and they are most helpful. I would definitely order again.
Marc - Canada
Thanks for a nice job and great prices. Most appreciated.
Tony - West Virginia
Just to let you know that my cigar arrived today with no custom problem. You guys are very professional and I will definitely buy from you again. Thanks.
Joe - Canada
Just a note to let you know my shipment arrived in Canada in 6 days. No customs hassles. Thanks for working with your customers to minimize this extra cost. Not all vendors do this. Expect future orders from me.
Mike - Canada
Ordered a hard to find box of Savinelli Liga Especial from CP and couldn't be happier. A great cigar at a great price. Arrived next day and in ready-to-smoke condition. Will be ordering more soon. Thanks.
Stephen - Florida
Very pleased. Ordered from Canada, only took 5 days including weekend..no extra charges either. Will do business again and will suggest CIGAR PLACE to my friends.
Dan - Canada
I'd like say that I appreciate your customer service, your prompt attention to emails and phone requests. I have been doing business with you for some time now, and have always been very impressed and pleased not only with your prices, but particularly with the quality of your service and attention to details. So--thanks again!!!
Jack - California
I have received the humidor, thank you very much this one very nice, excellent service, up to the next purchase.
Jose - Venezuela
Cigars were fresh on arrival. Best prices on the internet and fast shipping. Great communication. I will be ordering from CigarPlace.biz in the future.
Tim - Georgia
I just wanted to thank you for the smoking deal on the CAO Italias, the box of 5 largo (tubes). I bought 3 boxes, just to see if something too good, could in fact be true. I'm not sure how you did it, but the price was $7.00 to $10.00 cheaper than anyone else. They arrived today, and a friend and I smoked one. Everything was perfect, condition of the boxes, freshness of the cigars, and man - CAO has not made a bad one yet. I got back on line to order 8 more boxes, but you only had 5 left. It's no surprise, I should have ordered earlier. Thanks again, and I look forward to receiving your last 5 boxes!
Scott - Pennsylvania
We received the package in good order, and I want to thank Sandra for the thoughtful way she labeled the contents and the return address used. It was quite helpful in getting through customs without difficulty. We will be ordering more in future.
Elizabeth - Ireland
CigarPlace has just made my list for the sites I frequent in my hunt for bargain top shelf cigars. I recently got 2 boxes.. Oliva & Camacho at better than 20% off the next best online shop I even got free shipping. Thanks guys!
Todd - New Jersey
Julian simply runs the best business, has the best selection and prices around. I've been a long time customer and always satisfied with my order and service. Much appreciated!!
Nick - Florida
Just wanted to say great service on my recent purchase. I bought 2 boxes of my favorites, (Tatuaje Havana VI). You have the best prices, the communication was great and shipping was fast. I will be doing more business with you in the future! Thanks and keep up the great work.
Gary - Tennessee
Great prices and service; love the 1st of the month $1 freight charge - you guys are the best!
Robert - Illinois
"I´ll write my feedback in Portuguese for the Brazilian customers...Esta loja é fantástica, o atendimento primoroso feito pelo Julian. Já fiz vários pedidos e todos eles sempre chegaram muito bem embalados. Todos os produtos de excelente qualidade, desde os charutos até os humidores. Continuarei comprando de vocês...
Ricardo - Brazil
Hey, Just wanted to let you guys know that my package arrived safe and sound. Thanks so much for the great services and especially working with me to help reduce or avoid external costs. Thank you so much again, and I'll be back shortly.
Victor - Canada
I just wanted to say thank you for giving me the most competitive prices on cigars. I have bought 5 or 6 boxes within the past 3 months and I will continue to buy from cigar place. You guys allow me to smoke the best stuff on a regular basis, and my cigar buddies and I are forever grateful!
Christopher - North Carolina
My order from you arrived yesterday, faster than I expected. This is my third order in just over a month. You've impressed me every time with great prices, quick delivery, and immediate, friendly, and helpful responses to my emailed questions. Count me as one of your loyal customers. Thank you!
Bob - Colorado
Cigar Place is the BEST! I ordered on Friday evening and the cigars were shipped on Monday and delivered on Tuesday. This is my third order from you, and I don't think anyone can beat your service or prices! Keep doing what you're doing and I'll be your customer for life. Listen up T******n, J*, T*******x, and F****s I'm sending everyone I know to CigarPlace.biz
Thanks, and "Smoke em if ya got 'em"
Trevor - Florida
I just received my cigars the other day. Beautifully and carefully packaged. I would like to offer you my greatest appreciation for your great service and for working so well with international clients. Thanks to you, I am now able to taste some fine cigars which are not available in my own country. This is my second time ordering from you, and what can I say? I am much obliged. Thank you.
Martin - Sweden
Wow! I am very impressed! I just stumbled across your website last week and decided to give you guys a try. You offered a great price on the cigars I chose and sweetened the deal with the $1 shipping at the 1st of the month. So I figured I'd see the gars hopefully by the end of the week. I was blown away when I came home from work yesterday and found my stogies waiting for me. I placed the order on Friday and received my stogies on Monday. They shipped from FL to the Los Angeles area over the weekend by regular USPS shipment. I will definitely pass the good word along about your excellent products and service.
Mike - California
I referred a friend this last Friday. He is so impressed with your service he thanks me on a daily basis. Thanks for the great service.
Steve - California
Although it maybe is not necessary, I would like to inform you that the above order has arrived here today safe and sound. I thank you all for your excellent work and will keep now your address on my table.
Dmitri - Russia
Copyright © 2015 CigarPlace. All rights reserved.


text:
Taking Action For Free JavaScript
Re:Gosh!!! (318 comments)
Because definitely the main purpose of minifying is to obfuscate code...
Announcing: Slashdot Deals - Explore geek apps, games, gadgets and more. (what is this?)
We are sorry to see you leave - Beta is different and we value the time you took to try it out. Before you decide to go, please take a look at some value-adds for Beta and learn more about it. Thank you for reading Slashdot, and for making the site better!
Re:Gosh!!! (318 comments)
Because definitely the main purpose of minifying is to obfuscate code...
Re: Gosh!!! (318 comments)
I seriously doubt anyone would object to your last point. Myself, I'd be proud if you picked my code (were I to actually stoop to writing JavaScript) to masturbate over.
Re:How well does Google Business work for calendar (251 comments)
Don't know what Exchange offers, but it's easy to share calendars (dunno if you can make a calendar private and only allow a group of people to view it, without manually adding the people one by one, but yeah), for people to view others' calendars, and to find 'free time for all'.
Re:OK, stick a fork in them, they're done. (743 comments)
I still remember laughing ecstatically at the big bad Pentium's FDIV bug that was taking down all the brand new PCs my hall mates were buying.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Re:Biggest problem: support, customization (23 comments)
What you're saying is that if you call the company behind a closed source, they'll be happy to take your money and develop your feature?
Re:Troll Indeed (487 comments)
Sounds like your employer/colleagues were pieces of shit. Doesn't necessarily mean that's the norm, or that you can't find better. But, keep on fighting the good fight, sir!
Re:Do no evil indeed (383 comments)
Only, McDonalds is mostly a franchise. But, yeah, sure.
Re:Not about language preferences (542 comments)
On the first point, since Android is open source and I can't download all of that source either I see no reason why the partial codebase of iOS does not qualify.
You can download all of Android's sources.
Where can I download Moto-Blur?
Moto-blur is not Android, it's a replacement UI developed by Motorola. Which, btw, is not as easy to do in iOS (and probably a breach of contract).
the second is at least a questionable claim, given that language preferences vary so much.
That has nothing to do with it. The fact is Objective-C make code injection incredibly easy, which means it's much easier to hook into and modify specific parts of existing applications.
It's not about language preference, it's about a specific side effect of iOS software being written in Objective-C.
But then again, that's not exactly allowed, is it?
Re:The BSD community just doesn't accept stupidity (480 comments)
Unless you're using the old BSD license (with the advertising clause), BSD is compatible with GPL. And as far as I know, pretty much everyone moved away from that.
Re:Interesting... (420 comments)
I'll be reading a book and then realise I've been on auto-pilot for the last 3 pages and actually have no recollection of what I just read.
That happens to me too, but what makes it especially annoying is that when I re-read, I recognize it and slowly start remembering what I read.
Maybe they think Unity is good (798 comments)
because they cannot track the bugs people report against the package in that piece of shit launchpad.
Re:Do not want (222 comments)
How exactly do you buy things ONLINE?
With a debit card.
Re:Poor understanding of English (178 comments)
My point was, integrity (values/moral, figurative definition) of policemen works just as well as the literal one. If anything, integrity as being whole, seems to me would apply better to the police corps, not to an individual:
intégrité, nom féminin
Sens 1 Etat d'une chose qui n'a pas été altérée
Chose means thing, and while you can apply this to a person, it just sounds weird. But, we're just splitting hairs here.
Re:I'm sure we all know this... (459 comments)
Lazy journalism. The coldfusion stuff was made by Luis Majano, whereas the logbox the nutcase in question is talking about was made by this guy: http://www.fabioghioni.net/blog/2011/10/20/internet-e-l%E2%80%99arbitrio-assoluto-sui-dati-dei-service-provider-presentata-al-parlamento-l%E2%80%99iniziativa-per-un-sistema-di-controllo-sotto-garante/
Re:Poor understanding of English (178 comments)
How can you tell which of the two meanings they used? From what I see on http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/atteinte , it's more likely to be used with the figurative sense of intégrité.
Privacy? (178 comments)
My French is very rusty and google translate doesn't work with https (and I'm too lazy to copy paste everything by hand), but from what I saw, it has photos and names, no addresses, phone numbers or shoesize. It also had screenshots of facebook with them saying they hate non white people and similar for a couple of them.
The article is misleading, yes. But so is saying they're disclosing personal oh-so-sensitive information.
Re:tl;dr: new trust model rumor (74 comments)
How would that help if an attacker can inject/remove data, not only sniff it?
Re:Awesome Lightning (180 comments)
Agreed - hard to believe this is from still frames.
Just like it's hard to believe any movie is made up by still frames?
Re:you can't consent to child porn (510 comments)
You do know that's not how the numbers you're talking about work, right?
Re:EU turning into US? (191 comments)
It is illegal to do that in Romania. As it is to deny that the Holocaust happened.

subset: commoncrawl


text: It takes an hour to go to and from the school from work. Traffic here is ugly, we have all of the best shopping (Okay, target, walmart, kohls, ****'s sporting) all in one section of town. No such great planning snce there are four schools in that area as well. And it is on a major highway between Montgomery and the Beach.


text:
Current User PersonalAccess ID Forgot or Do Not Know My Access ID First Time User Enrollment Online Banking Enrollment Guide
BUSINESS access ID: start page: Overview Page Account List Primary Account Summary Welcome Page Summary Page Wire Confirmations Wire Transfer Review iBank Demo
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Copyright © 2008 American National Bank. All Rights Reserved. Miscellaneous Fee Schedule Privacy Policy - Security Statement - Truth in Savings Disclosure - USA Patriot Act Notice


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akwoo's Mom Answers Activity
akwoo is a star in these topics:
Pregnancy > Prenatal Care & Tests
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Is it okay not to see the baby on ultrasound?
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Due to my last period I would be 5 weeks and 6 days. I'm having bleeding went to ER and had sono and blood work. The sono reviled a s...
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text:
Wed, Apr 11, 12 at 10:21
Did a search on this site and nothing came up. Does anyone have any experience with this product? We are getting a great price but I am worried as it seemed as though the samples are not completely sealed? |
Follow-Up Postings:
Avoid Armstrong and any of their subsidiaries (Bruce/Swiftlock). They use a lock and fold system which is complete garbage, it doesn't lock meaning you will have flooring pop up, separate and even chip and it's noisy. There is quite a bit about it on this forum; http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/flooring/msg0721340413169.html. I had mine completely removed. |
It's Not a lock and fold system or a glue down type....it's nail down solid 3/4" hickory. I went to a client of my husband over the weekend. And She LOVES her and I loved the look. |
Oops, thought it was their laminate. |
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Just another metropolis
Like what you just read? Support high quality local journalism. Become a member of Crosscut today!
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 7:13 a.m.
Here in the hinterland, the 'edge city', life moves on. Sure, it might not have the fusion intensity of an inner city, but as science has shown us, such reactions are hard to manage. A slightly less ambitious, if still creative, drive can be a very good thing. If there is a quintessential NW town these days, it may well be Portland, though I suspect it too will not lag Seattle by more than a decade.
Geographic isolation can stifle vibrancy, not to mention honesty. And Seattle, the kid sibling in the family of American Cities, has not been hurt by its hand me downs, it has been affected.
There is much energy that can result from the gravitas of a new element, even a member of the periodic family so unstable as Seattle. Electrons fly off in every direction in a chain reaction and the future emerges.
Nowhere is not new, it too changes and passes.
-Douglas Tooley
Tacoma, WA
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 7:38 a.m.
Red Letter Day: Welcome to the Northwest Jonathan. Since you've only been here since 1990 you probably don't yet know how gauche it is to mark the day you came to live here as a turning point in the history of Seattle. The major defining point in the history of our city was that day in 1974 when I moved here.
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 9:25 a.m.
Jonathan, please tell me you don't throw your cigars into the SHIP CANAL! Disgusting.
I love the new, bigger Seattle.
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 9:54 a.m.
I don't know. I moved here last year and I can't get seem to find anyone that will talk about the history of Seattle without coloring it with so much trite nostalgia, idealization and repressed NIMBYism that it's pretty much incoherent (I say "repressed" NIMBYism because liberal Seattlites would never admit to simply not wanting to share something - they would rather couch it in terms of some type of class struggle or trampling of the authentic by the capitalist simulacrum).
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 10:48 a.m.
The real tragedy is the disconnect between Seattle and the rest of the region. Jonathan is spot-on when he writes that Seattle "seems to float more in virtual space than in the regional space which – until surprisingly recently – used to define and sustain it." Many of the younger voices of Seattle – journalists, bloggers, The Stranger – seem to regard the rest of the region as if it were the moon. Take the Inland Empire: now here's a great place for wine tasting and golf, but the people there are only deserving of condescension, pity at best. This wasn't the case 20 years ago.
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 10:49 a.m.
This evolving old guy knows that cities also evolve. What living thing doesn't? Complaining about how Seattle isn't like it was when is like complaining about getting old. What's the alternative and what's the point?
From my point of view, Seattle is, all things considered, a better city now than it was then (whenever your "then" was). There have always been things about Seattle that are less than perfect; don't get me started. There have always been things that complainers could complain about. Attention complainers: Name me a perfect place on the planet then move there...or, quit bitch'n and do something to make the place better.
I especially dislike people moving here and beginning to rant about how we natives and our city are somehow deficient. This place is what we make it. That "we" includes natives and those who found their way here for whatever reason.
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 11:24 a.m.
Thanks again for pointing out our region's shortcomings. I also muse over the good old days now gone. Yes salmon & logging are pretty much dried up now (they're interrelated you know). But hark back with me to the days when industrial waste was pumped into the Duwamish River, raw sewage was piped into Elliot bay, and virtually every neighborhood had it's very own landfill! Yes my friend, we once had it all and foolishly let it slip through our hands.
Currently I am looking for a new area to settle in, one that is not so tainted with modernization and latte's. My thoughts currently hover over some small logging outposts in the Northwest Territories where I believe there is a lack of logging restrictions and British travel writers. Unfortunately I have yet to find a location that far north with a proper cigar store, but let me know if you're interested anyway.
Thanks, Mike Hardiman
Seattle, WA
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 11:29 a.m.
fun·da·me-tro·lism (fÅn'dÉ™-mÄ›trol-Äz'É™m)
a usually religious-seeming movement or point of view characterized by a desire to return to a nostalgic and idealized version or vision of a city or town, by rigid adherence to that vision, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to evolution and growth
eg. "Fremont sucks now"
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 11:33 a.m.
As someone who arrived way way back in 1992, I can say with authority that rebirth is as much a part of Seattle's character as are the mountains and water. The Seattle of the 2000s feels different than the whirlwind of the 90s, which was different from the sluggish city of the 70s and 80s, which wasn't much like the wide-eyed town of the 60s, and so on.
On the positive side, this continual metamorphisis ensures that we'll always have a steady supply of grizzled old men cursing the next wave of transplants and pining for the Seattle of yore. I expect I'll join their ranks in a couple decades. If the city ever runs out of these guys, then we're in trouble.
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 11:52 a.m.
Mr. Raban, this article goes a long way toward soothing my anger over the ending of Surveillance. Spot on.
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 2:01 p.m.
Seattle has "turned the corner" into a big city, or "world class city" in today's parlance, many times.
1914 brought the Smith Tower. Downtown Manhattan here we are!
In WWII we were a leading part of the war machine.
1962 was when the world found out about Seattle (then mostly forgot).
1967 and 1968 brought the Sonics and Pilots (am I getting that right?).
1976(?) was the Seahawks and Mariners at the new Kingdome.
In 1982 we stepped out with several fancy new condo towers and doubled our Downtown hotel inventory. The Columbia Center was breaking ground, giving us one of the world's tallest non-NY/Chi towers.
1987-1992 were the biggest Downtown building boom in our history. Convention Center, Bus Tunnel, several of our biggest towers, lots of housing. I believe that was our heaviest population growth period.
Until supplanted by the 1997-2002 building boom, arguably. Renewed retail district, tons of housing, hotels, EMP, lots of offices...
Today is just a slightly early version of our once-per-decade Downtown boom. Our metro population growth is actually pretty moderate now by the standards of the past few decades.
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 2:31 p.m.
I think we had more fun when we weren't so affluent. (I've been here since 1936) And it is harder to live well when rich - no sharing is required. Maybe the changes demanded by global warming and the end of oil will be helpful for our sense of humanity...
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 3:02 p.m.
Fresh enthusastic immigrants enroute: Although I share the sense of loss that the writer and others have stated, I bet there are fresh newbies arriving today that will remember 6 July 2007 as the good ole' days in a decade or two. When my wife and I first visited Seattle in August 1995 (moved here in Nov 95) I remember this big sign on 1st Avenue proclaiming that new condos were available for $99,000. They must have been studios but I said to my wife "boy ... those are overpriced." I think back to those days with great fondness but ultimately what matters most is today and what we should do for tomorow.
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 3:15 p.m.
RE: When we turned into a big city: Seattle Pilots played here in the glorious summer of '69.
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 3:43 p.m.
_: Glorious? Well, thank you. But actually I was born in March.
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 4:43 p.m.
Contrary to JamesD's snarky implication, nowhere in Jonathan Raban's piece does he suggest that the turning point in Seattle's history was when he arrived from jolly Old England. In fact, the piece refutes that by calling up our rich, pre-Rabanical past. He's a writer making first-hand observations about how he's seen the city change since he arrived. He offers some context. He's mostly sticking with what he knows. Good for him.
Mike Hardiman seems to have Chamber of Commerce sensibilities. Raban said something critical about Seattle! Horrors. He then flips it by saying that Raban isn't critical enough because old blue collar Seattle was a city of nasty polluters. (Hey, guess what? So is the current Seattle.) This follows a very predictable formulation in recent discussions about the city and its soul: You either believe the present is good and the past bad, or vice versa. It's urban Utopians versus retrograde mossbacks. Poster Kayvaan weighs in by implying that Raban is guilty of "fundametrolism," which is defined as a yearning for a nostalgic past as expressed by someone who thinks "Fremont sucks now." (I'm not sure how you categorize people who think Fremont has always sucked.)
But Raban has more complicated, less black and white views than his critics imply. Painting him as a nostalgist is silly. Few regional writers have had a less nostalgic view of Northwest culture. In his book Passage to Juneau, he sails from Seattle all the way to Alaska and hardly meets anyone he likes. In fact, his greatest sympathies seem to be with fellow misanthrope George Vancouver. As a result, the book is frustrating, but yields fresh insights.
Raban is writing about the consequences of being disconnected from the land and water, from history, from culture, from the sources of prosperity. If that hits a sore spot, let's hope returns to the subject with a sharp probe.
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 6:42 p.m.
In Phoenix, Mexican was a staple. Two, three times a week, authentic (always the Number 5 no matter the restaurant) or Ma's faux "enchiladas," it was a given we would eat Mexican. Here, you couldn't find a can of refried beans for love nor money! No tortillas or salsa or anything - strictly meat and potatoes.
Fast was Dick's, Dag's, Herfy's, or Zesto. McDonald's and Burger King hadn't gone national, and perish the thought of a "Taco" (Bell or Time) garnering anyone's business.
If you went out to eat, it was red meat or occasionally salmon at Ivar's. The odd Italian or Chinese places were considered almost too exotic for the Seattle palate. Speaking of Ivar's, the Acres of Clams on Pier 54 at the foot of Madison (the address remembered from all the radio and B & W TV commercials) was seafood at its best.
In 1963, Seattle was a town you could call home. No Mexican, but Ma taught me how to pry oysters off a rock and slurp them down on the beach; I was good for the moment. And we dug clams without worrying about tide color.
The biggest big league sporting attraction was the Seafair Lake Washington hydro races (you got in free in those days). Ollie Bardahl, Slow Mo Shun, and Pat O'Dea were summer. The Huskies occasionally did something football-wise until Jim Owens had the forward pass outlawed by the Republican legislature. Salmon punch cards were free, and the Milk Fund Salmon Derby saw every man and boy on Elliott Bay with a plug-cut herring.
No freeways (I-5 was under construction), condos, national retail chains or fake tourist attractions like George Benson's waterfront streetcars. OK…Frederick & Nelson was owned by Marshall Field & Co. And the J. C. Penny Company but it had a unique local flavor since James Cash Penny would bop into town to hang with his pal, transportation and banking magnate Joshua Green, both of whom were well into their 90's.
The Viaduct served tens of thousands of working-class jobholders who commuted from reasonably priced homes north of the ship canal to industrial jobs in South Seattle and along the Duwamish, the Smith Tower was it for office buildings, King County was governed by a three-member commission with one member a full-time dairy farmer from Carnation, and Leo Lassen called balls and strikes for the Seattle Rainier's at Sick's Stadium.
Boeing and Weyerhaeuser called industrial shots; Seattle First National and Joshua Green's People's National Banks called financial shots; Swedish, Providence, and Children's Orthopedic Hospitals administered shots; and Rainier Club members pulled the strings and orchestrated the shots.
Gentlemen (every man sought to be one) bought suits at Frederick's or Lundquist-Lilly. Ladies (every woman was presumed to be one) took tea at Frederick's dining room and bought school clothes for the children at the Bon Marche. Macy's was in New York, and Nordstrom was a shoe store soon to join with Best Apparel.
The Seattle Times was solidly Republican, and the P-I was solidly yellow and very Hearst. Jean Enersen was nowhere to be found.
Ivar Haglund, J.P. Patches, Stan Boreson, Emmett Watson, Charles O. Carroll, Edo Vani, the Gai brothers, Art Oberto, Lan Roberts, Hugh McIlhenny, Royal Brougham, et al.
Channels 4, 5, 7 (when you could get it), and KJR, Seattle…Channel 95 (you who know are humming it now). Channels 11 and 13 were Tacoma (of the aroma) and unwatched save for Brakeman Bill.
A town worth living in!
The Piper
Posted Fri, Jul 6, 9:54 p.m.
One detail I found fascinating in Passage to Juneau was Mr. Raban's notion that the indigenous totem pole was much influenced by the galleon figures on the prows of the first Spanish and British ships who explored these parts, and so remain the first and only successful hybrid of a culture that accommodated itself to the conditions peculiar to this part of the world and its future conqueror-destroyers. The nostalgie doesn't strike either as deserved or earned.
What both Mr. Berger and Raban find not to their liking is the normal boom and bust of the U.S. economy. Unless the country turns socialist, something I dearly wish, and decides on a less unequal distribution of income... come the day.
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 1:19 a.m.
But, there are parts of this latest cycle that dismays me. Growth used to mean good wages and stable neighborhoods. Now, many working class families can no longer afford to live within city limits. The majority of new home development is aimed at the mythic Microsoft millionaires instead of the guy who lubes your car or bakes your bread. Growth for growths sake alone is only good for those that reap the financial gain. For everyone else it too often means lower wages and possibly an hour or two hour a day of commute time.
If you look back at what has made Seattle great you can see it's been the working people.
Jazz clubs in the CD. Being able to fish in Elliott Bay. Painters like Graves and Tobey. The culture(s) of the Pike Place Market. Houseboats. Sailors. The Dog House Restaurant. I'll take Elliott Bay Bookstore anyday over a Borders. The same applies to Sunfish Fish and Chips over any chain restaurant. I want Seattle to throw the myth of trickle-down economics out the window and instead look at what's best for the entire community.
Culture isn't at the mall, it's in the everyday people.
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 8:52 a.m.
We bought our last family home there in 1985 for $195,000. It was a l906 humdinger on Capitol Hill, with lots of huge trees, oak floors,rhodies and tons of charm. I finally sold it last year. It was 'remodeled' with plastic black ebony floors, fake plastic exterior wood, a concrete media room, with all former landscaping scraped clean to be replaced by a couple of spindly bushes and redwood bark. It sold at $1.5 million. You couldn't pay me to live there now.
I have now lived in Santa Fe, NM for the last four years and feel reborn and reinvented, my sons have moved to Portland, Oregon which is now one of the finest cities in the US. We miss the 'good old days' in Seattle, but aren't looking back. Such a shame. Long-term city planning by forward-looking creatives is apparently now out of fashion in Seattle.....we got out just in time.
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 9:02 a.m.
The only massive cypress trees I've seen around are the non-native leland cypress that my neighbor planted to block my view of the metropolis (Seattle).
Technically cedar may be some form of cypress but native speakers always refer to native cedars as cedars. Why couldn't Raban?
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 9:09 a.m.
RE: ed Letter Day: A correction JamesD. The major defining point in Seattle history was June 25, 1975 when "I" arrived at the 9th and Stewart Greyhound Station.
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 9:14 a.m.
Who in his or her right mind would eat salmon cooked on a cypress plank??? But a cedar plank is something else entirely. And we mulch our gardens with cedar bark.
Cypress sounds hot and muggy, as in those gardens in Florida. Cedar sounds chilly and dank as in the woods around here.
Raban's use of the term must be a hold-over from his old country origins.
But the rest of his essay is worth reading, so don't hold his vernacular against him. At least he didn't spell labor or color with a "u."
The Piper
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 9:55 a.m.
RE: the natives are rolling their eyes: You're right, no one from Seattle would call red cedars "cypress," but a lot of people do use the term when referring to cedars, just like some people refer to evergreens as "pines." And some kinds of cedar, like Alaska, are commonly called cypress. There's a lot of confusion about cedars, cypresses and junipers in common useage. Cypress Island in the San Juans was named by the Spanish for the junipers they found there. Arthur Lee Jacobson in Trees of Seattle says "Neither 'cedar' nor the similarly-used common name 'cypress' refers to any one genus of trees." Both cedar and cypress are often used without being technically correct. I agree that the term clunks in the local ear.
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 10:11 a.m.
I hoped that my last sentence would carry an ambiguous sting. I don't think that Seattle now resembles everywhere else so much as that other cities feel to me increasingly like Seattle--which was why I listed the string of famous Seattle brand names in that sentence. And it's not just Starbucks, Boeing, and Windows XP; it's the manners, the dress code, the culture, the hush of the digital economy, in which Seattle effectively sets the tone and pace for other post-regional cities around the world. Last November, I spent a week in Oxford (England, not Mississippi) and was astonished by how all that ancient ecclesiastical architecture failed to mask the fast-growing similarities between here and there. Ten years ago, that trip would have entailed some high-voltage culture shock. Not now. Go from Forks, WA to an English village of similar size, and you might be on another planet, but from Seattle to Oxford is an incredibly short hop. In this sense, I see Seattle as a template for the way cities are changing--and for the often acrimonious divorce between those cities and their regional hinterlands.
In my defence, I'd also point out that the piece was written not for Crosscut, but for a London-based newspaper with an international audience (hence my preference for cypress over western red cedar) for whom Seattle is likely to be just a name on a world atlas. So I sketched the place for strangers, in broadbrush outline, as a city that has undergone a sea change in recent years, of a kind that other residents of other cities might see in their own mirror.
As for 1990, I just happened to arrive here on one of those dates--like 1897 or 1941--when Seattle was going through one of its intermittent metamorphoses, triggered mainly by the arrival of Microsoft eleven years before. I'm not "nostalgic" for that--or any other--date; just fascinated by the city's continuing evolution (which means neither improvement nor deterioration.)
--Jonathan Raban
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 10:37 a.m.
The Piper
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 11:03 a.m.
For other 'dogs', go visit the area during a heavy rainstorm, euphemistically called a 'CSO' - a combined sewer overflow. That was hasn't been solved yet.
I believe they have solved the mysterious syringe problem - bad plumbing at the new S. Lake Union Swedish. I believe that one took more than five years to trace. Who knows what sorts of flesh eating bacteria got cooked up during the summer months downstream from there during the warmer months - including that fairly famous case with the champion rower.
-Douglas Tooley
Tacoma, WA
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 11:08 a.m.
Via Orange County, Eugene Oregon and noteworthy stopovers in Western Mass and Eastern Tennessee.
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 11:30 a.m.
RE: the natives are rolling their eyes: I'm afraid Mr. Raban's Americanized spelling is due to me, when I edited the Financial Times version for our use. I did a search and replace for "ou" and a few other Britishisms.
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 1:15 p.m.
Where else would there be such a thing as crosscut.com where writers like Raban (who I first discovered in the pages of Granta many years ago) and Mossback (who I first discovered in that other, weekly, newspaper in Seattle) not only contribute articles of their own but also get down and dirty with the rest of us Great Unwashed and thrash it out in the "Comments" column?
I must admit I don't comment on many articles but I often read the comments just to watch as they degenerate into meaningless babble as if they were the effluvia of those proverbial one million chimps that are kept busy trying to rewrite Shakespeare! To witness the specter of two pros like Raban and Mossback as they wade into the murky depths slashing away at us nattering nabobs is a sight well worth the price of going through all this twice!
Speaking for myself, my intention of pointing out the importance to Northwest History of the year 1974 was meant to be a good-natured nudge-nudge, wink-wink to Mr. Raban as well as a bait for all the virtual piranhas who cannot resist going after the raw and bleeding corpse of the Good Old Days! The ploy appears to have worked beyond my wildest expectations! Ye-ha!
Anyway, enough is enough. I love the Northwest, I love Seattle, and I love my neighborhood too much to ever want to leave. I loved it when I arrived in '74 and I love it now, I love the history (even the parts left out of the history books like the IWW and the opium dens), and I love the future (not just because after a few more years of global warming I'll be living on ocean-front property).
Sure, the Twin Tee-Pees is gone but now, just down the street, we have the world's best samosas at Kalia. Stadiums will come and go as will sports teams, governors and employers, people will move to town and people will move out, but the Northwest (not just Seattle, Portland, Spokane, and Boise, but Bickleton, Bruceport, Yachats, Dubois et al.) is a magnificent and unique place to live.
Raban's piece is an insightful addition to the literate map of the Northwest.
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 2:57 p.m.
gold in them hills;: raban is a treasure. agree or not I always enjoy his pieces!
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 5:32 p.m.
You should be educating your international audience about the western red cedar not pandering to their assumed ignorance.
How about the cedars of Lebanon? You can even see them in Paris. ps
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 8:16 p.m.
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 8:45 p.m.
But he also puts his finger on what is quintessentially Seattle - its smugness. The smugness of old judged every outsider's worth on how far away he lives from Seattle (pity the poor Portlanders who don't live here, but still they were better than San Franciscans, who were most definitely better than an Angeleno, those BMW driving materialists . . . !). This old smugness has been overshadowed by a new smugness flavored with wireless and tech wealth and savvy. A smugness of the new Seattle economy that views the old Seattle economy as dead or, worse yet, irrelevant.
The old industrial workhorse Boeing is rescendent, but with its high tech aeroplanes is an honorary tech company, and nevermind the Superfund sites all around its old plants. Weyerhaeuser, "the Tree Growing Company," is still the second largest company by revenue in the state, yet it gets nary a mention any time a top Washington public official starts waxing with pride about successful companies in Washington that have a global presence. As if the tech economy made forest products a thing of the past! Unfortunately not, though that was the original vision. And trusty old Weyerhaeuser Company never gets any credit for being among the first paper companies to perfect recycled paper, though back in the 60s no one wanted it, viewing it inferior!
While not as dominant a part of the economy as it once was, industrial is still alive and well in this state contrary to some of the above posters. While the overall fishing industry has shrunk, here in Seattle Fisherman's Terminal is actually seeing a resurgence.
Maybe it's because people have limited bandwidths to think in more than just their narrow silos, but to make this place work we need to still be mindful of the old economy, in addition to our infatuation with the new. While density is a good thing - building up instead of out as the region grows - we should resist the urge to rezone every industrial parcel into a sculpture park.
Posted Sat, Jul 7, 11:49 p.m.
Please don't dig that much into my post - you'll give me credit for presenting a partially formulated argument. I merely meant to poke fun at Jonathan's article for seeming contradictions and for making base observations of Seattle from his allegedly upturned nose. I found the article trite and get irritated with the Seattle intelligentsia for kisses this guy's ass. Jeez, kinda ruins it when you have to explain it.
Take care, Mike
Posted Sun, Jul 8, 11:57 a.m.
Personally, I'd love to see the tree-cutting business fall dramatically. We could easily get by with much less wood. Smaller houses, more apartments, less paper...
Posted Mon, Jul 9, 9:18 a.m.
well, i'm not bothered by cypresses instead of red cedar, though i wish folks would still wear the bark in winter, and i miss juniper trees! mr. raban disavows the significance of crushing and tossing his cigar on the ballard docks. o.k. but if he were au courant he'd know that fisherman's terminal is resurging [a word one scarcely can use it has rapidamente aquired all these entendres]
and being renewed. i grew up along the north sea and had a father who ran a fishing fleet, and loved being dockside in that part of the world, and so have a certain connection to the baltic seeming fishing fleet in ballard. but once the fishes have all been caught by the u.s. and the japanese industrial fleets... as they have been in the sea of cortez.... and so many other places around the world....
i recall shipping into walvis bay [namibia] in spring 1973, for an easter weekend of loading copper ingots, and spending the weekend in swakopsmund [blackheadmouth], and being transported back to the year 1900 in Hamburg, seeing women dressed in my grandmother's style. the point being that emigrants, then, become the most conservative while whence the emigrated from, changes... the foundational backwardness of seattle which persists....
architecturally, Seattle has been a national copy cat ever since its one original craftsmen cottage contribution, a west coast phenomenon dependent on the pacific rim location. modernism surged [!!] here, too, in 1910 or a few years later, the decisive year. the current international style that can also be found in oxford u.k.... think back on the resistance that rem kolhaas library design encountered! how what remains of the old mercantile style in pioneer square was saved chiefly at the behest of a french restaurateur! when was the southwestern side of Queen Anne Hill turned into something that resembles post WW II German innocuous rebuilding style. this is a city without an eye, and its one vantage point, along the waterfront, is marked as such.
How much "living" did it take to make for a phenomenon like Jimmy Hendrix? What has been the effect of the shutting down of the after hour clubs in the CD ghetto? Is now of the city's quashing of all ages teen venues? Whenever you run into the "keep our kids safe" ideology you know that repression, under the color of kindliness, is about to throttle you! i suppose the perennial problem is that of shedding the imprint that the cookie cutter has imposed on you. the degree of individuality a culture will permit. seattle's need to adorn itself with non-home-grown worthies does not speak well either of its self-confidence or of any kind of real openness to anything profoundly new, different. this is still a profoundly provincial place, and not in the good sense.
johnC make an interesting point about the foundational industries. obviously, the railroad and the port need to be mentioned here, the port was once, early 80s, technologically the most advanced. others have just caught up meanwhile. the ground traffic situation has improved little since the railway came across stampede pass. molasses. no alameda corridor to ship those containers to the hinterlands.
but i am not sure about the disconnect with the hinterland. it still penetrates in the form of unpaved alleys with its overhang fruit trees, which the "natives" leave unpicked as they go to whatever supermarket.
though i suspect that mr. raban is right in observing that the hinterland is not worth an owl's hoot to workers who are as interchangeable as the architecture.
seattle's insecurities, too, are like the national insecurities
Posted Mon, Jul 9, 10:03 a.m.
no butts in our lake!: If you want to help preserve our Seattle, stop throwing your nasty old cigar butts in the lake!
Posted Tue, Jul 10, 12:13 p.m.
Perspective from a younger Seattle native: It seems like every few years someone writes an article like this (I remember a big "Is Seattle Losing Its Soul?" feature in the Weekly or the Stranger several years back) and the range of responses is always the same, consisting of people who moved here last year and think everything is just fine (how would they know?) and people who moved here 30 years ago or were born here and wish to dispute the exact date of the most recent change or claim that it's just another instance of Seattle's "boom and bust" history, or say sure it's changed but it's better now (evidence that there is indeed Prozac in the water.) Always the most rare reaction is my own, which is that I agree completely that Seattle changed quite a bit in the '90s. I was born in Seattle in '81, so the Seattle of the '80s and early '90s was the only Seattle I knew, making the change in the second half of the '90s much more noticeable to me than it apparently is to those who have been here longer and see the change in the '90s as being just the same as previous changes in past decades. The point is that despite the previous changes Seattle still felt unique and regional up until the '90s, and that the change in the '90s was different, it was the final change to a city that does not feel unique or regional (which is by its nature a permanant change; the old feeling of Seattle is now extinct). To me this could not be more obvious, so I'm always glad to see articles like this one but baffled and frustrated by the responses.
Posted Tue, Jul 10, 12:35 p.m.
RE: Perspective from a younger Seattle native: Definitely, some of our uniqueness has gone away. But, while the uniqueness was good, I also like that we're more worldly and connected to other places today. And physically the city is infinitely better -- denser and more active. Seattle was a quiet city in the 80s, with far more parking lots than even today and, with a couple exceptions, a lack of vibrant urban districts. (Since the author is from Britain, I'll point out that we have many years to go before our urban districts are as consistently good as theirs!)
Posted Tue, Jul 10, 12:40 p.m.
RE: Perspective from a younger Seattle native: I liked that Seattle was a quiet city. It was the only city of its size that was like that. Now, it's like every other city. The point is, anyone who wanted a typical metropolis had plenty of big cities they could choose to live in, but there was only one Seattle. But for some reason, people who wanted the metropolis chose not to move to one of twenty other big cities they could have chosen from, and instead moved to Seattle and proceeded to transform it into a typical metropolis. So when people respond to those of us who preferred the old Seattle and say "Sure, but a typical metropolis is good too," I say, then go live in one and leave Seattle for those of us who like Seattle (except now it's too late.)
Posted Wed, Jul 11, 8:51 a.m.
It's not realistic to expect a city to remain "quiet" and small. Look backward and you see double-digit percentage growth for the Seattle metro in every decade. Naturally you'd expect that this might continue.
I also disagree that this is a bad thing, or that we should feel guilty about not moving away. We should have regulations to mold that change toward what we like and what's sustainable, aka growth management, zoning, tranportation infrastructure investment, etc.
As for small cities, Tacoma is a good bet and very underrated. While it's growing and revitalizing too, it'll always be the smaller, less-dense, cheaper alternative to Seattle.
Posted Wed, Jul 11, 10:04 a.m.
1960 557,087
1970 530,831
1980 493,846
1990 516,259
2000 563,374
"Look backward and you will seee double-digit growth for the Seattle Metro in every decade." Well now that the safety valve of the Suburbs and East King county has been maxed out under GMA maybe Seattle will see the double digit growth it needs to become as "dense" as it acts.
Speaking of Density, where is the Crosscut story on KC ordinance 2007-0350 gving an exclusive, non-competitive bid to a developer in an island property in Maple Valley against the wishes of the city. 2,000 homes and a 30% increase in population in a rural SE King County town with NO transporation dollars and no mitigation fees, The County keeps all of the money. What's the matter Crosscut? Afraid to take on Ron and Friends?
Posted Wed, Jul 11, 11:43 a.m.
Case in point: I know a couple who currently rent an apartment on Queen Anne and are now looking for somewhere to buy. Both have freelance incomes (she's a technical writer, he's a sculptor); neither is faced with a daily commute, but she needs to travel regularly to Redmond, he to his downtown Seattle gallery. First they looked at Bremerton, but rejected it. Now they're house-hunting in Tacoma Old Town. I don't think they're planning to leave the "city" as they use and imagine it, so much as to move from one quarter or neighborhood of it to another, as a Londoner, faced with the same economic choices, might move from Earl's Court to Ealing or Tooting Bec. A dozen years ago, the natural place to look would have been Beacon Hill or Georgetown; now it's Bremerton or Tacoma.
A more trivial example. Not long ago, I rarely crossed the perimeter of I-405 except when I was driving way out of Seattle--to Montana, or Vancouver B.C., or Portland (or SeaTac airport). At some time since 2000, looking for Sunday lunch with my daughter or a friend, I'd find myself torn between Indian in Redmond or dim sum in Kent--and, yes, I know about the carbon-footprint implications of this; please don't harangue me on the subject! The distances involved are greater (though not very much) than comparable London distances, but the drive-times are shorter. My own conception of the "city" has enlarged to take in neighborhoods I used to think of as beyond my ken.
I'm curious about how other people's "mental cities" (or "soft cities", to plug the title of my 1974 book on the subject) have adapted to the rapid growth of the PSMA. When you think "Seattle", how far afield does your own city stretch? Is it changing, or is it static?
--Jonathan Raban
Posted Wed, Jul 11, 1:32 p.m.
OK perhaps not, but dontcha think it makes a great headline! Just like we often read in the morning newspaper (you know which one I mean)!
I must admit that my personal Seattle City Limits are flexible. Yes, I'm guilty of incorporating Tacoma, Bellevue, Everett and the entire megalopolis if only as a kind of shorthand, especially when dealing with non-Seattleites.
My perception of Seattle is getting smaller. Just yesterday I took an out-of-town friend out for lunch. My original destination of choice was in Little Saigon. Unfortunately parking is always difficult and, worse yet, the place turned out to be closed. After trying two more restaurants downtown and Capitol Hill that were either too crowded or had no parking, I simply brought my out of towner to my own neighborhood where I knew I could find easy parking and a wide choice of eateries.
It's not just dining out. My neighborhood hardware store has everything I need in a reasonable amount of floor space (not so much that I feel like I need to rent a car just to find the light bulb section). The folks who work there are friends and neighbors who have been over for dinner or who I see at the market. I can't remember the last time I went to one of the Big Boxes. Likewise veterinarian, dentist, grocery store, library, halal butcher, mechanic, farmer's market, plumber, … the list goes on.
Of course there are plenty of reasons to leave my part of town. For example: a raw foods/vegan meal, a concert of early music, a film series, a boat ride, several bookstores, a day at the beach, or a performance of an Indian raga or an Iraqi oud maestro (although there have been a few of these in my neighborhood lately). All of these and more can easily be had without leaving the official city limits. If Seattle, with such a cornucopia of cultural delights, is "Just Another Metropolis" then the world is in pretty good shape. I guess we had better get out of this hand-basket it often seems like we are in and enjoy the twenty first century!
Posted Wed, Jul 11, 1:34 p.m.
First point I'd like to make is that, unlike London, Seattle is definitely NOT amorphous. It is very strictly defined geographically, and it's various suburban communities have there own identities, many of them having become satellite cities (Bellevue, Renton, even sweet little Edmonds) in there own right. (Greater Seattle is also tiny compared to London or the equally amorphous and gigantic "Los Angeles.") Sure, they're all part of the "Greater Seattle/Tacoma conurbation, but that absorption - or is it melding - process is taking place all over the World. It just happened to have happened first in London. Of course, if you're speaking to an audience in London, you'll speak of this greater metropolis simply as "Seattle," just as I, when describing to friends here my adventures in southern England, will refer to pretty much everything between Cambridge and Oxford as "London." But, to me "Seattle," the city of communities such as Green lake, West Seattle or Capitol Hill, and, of course, "downtown," lies between Lake and Sound, and 145th St. N. and it's southern border (which I've forgotten).
I believe the point I will most likely take issue with, once I read your whole article, is that Seattle once perceived itself (as opposed to was perceived by outsiders) as a regional (or to use the Word most beloved by New Yorkers , "provincial") hub, or even capitol. Seattle's founders chose a native American word as it's motto - "Alki" - which means "by and by" (as it was explained in our 5th grade local history course). The implication, of course, was that Seattle would become the Gotham of the West, by and by, and not just a thriving urban outpost capitalizing on its rich natural resources. (Seattle's local timber resources were used mostly to build Seatle. It was left to Tacoma and Everett - and the Weyerhauser corporation - to turn those trees into a major export.)
World War II created the Boeing that employed, in the mid-60s, one tenth of every human living between Everett and south King County - 110,000 employees at its peak. The vast majority of these people were highly educated engineers and equally skilled technicians, craftsman, machinists, etc. who migrated up and down the West Coast (between the many aircraft companies in southern California and Boeing), following new contracts and projects. This is Seattle's real, unique and constantly renewed resource - it's impressive collection of human brain power attracted first by Boeing and now by the whole regional "tech" industry spawned by Bill and Paul.
Finally, the Seattle World's Fair - Century 21 - announce to a somewhat bemused World that Seattle was taking its rightful place among the World's great cities. Do you, Jonathon, recall your thoughts upon hearing about the Seattle Worlds Fair? Probably different than mine - a high school kid at the time who was thrilled at the concept of "his" city becoming great. (I've traveled a bit since then and gained a bit of perspective.)
Anyway, nothing about the way the city has developed in the decades since I left (in 1985) has shown me that it has departed from the course it's founders and early residents set for it. It's gotten bigger, livelier, more densely populated in the urban core (Hurrah!), has pushed suburban tenticles ever deeper into once-beautiful forest land (Boo!), and, most importantly, it's gotten very much richer. And, now it's got the next World Series-winning baseball team.
Richard Jarvis
Bethesda, MD
Posted Wed, Jul 11, 1:40 p.m.
no doubt seattle has changed( I,ve been here forty years) much I think for the better.
Posted Wed, Jul 11, 5:47 p.m.
As for Seattle itself, I think going from an estimated 486,000 in 1986 to 582,000 in 2007 (or was that 2006?) is pretty impressive. Cities that grow more quickly are usually doing it through basic sprawl, not infill.
Posted Wed, Jul 11, 6:59 p.m.
Mr. Raban, I enjoyed your use of the Mariners to gauge the city's influence across distance for your European audience. A handy chart on the web tells me that if you're about 1000 miles east of London, you're somewhere in the Ukraine. If to the NE, you're in Finland. If to the SE, you're in Naples. How many countries, languages, and cultures have you passed through? Even by the American West's standards of distance, we are a long way from a whole lot of the U.S.
It's also good to be reminded of our boom and bust history. Haven't actually had one of those busts for quite some time though. Mostly just some slower on the way to faster. I arrived in this burg during the last good bust. And while I, too, on a bad day, can channel Emmett Watson - though never as thoroughly as Mr. Berger - some of the commentators above should bear in mind that the early '70's in Seattle were not all sweetness and light. If anyone would like a taste of the bitter, I can share a story or two.
The piece is also a reminder of what happens when writing intended for one audience ends up in front of an entirely different one. That first sentence drew from the stream the I've-been-here-longer-than-you crowd like leeches to mammalian leg. Seemed to impair their reading skills as well.
But to answer your question, Mr. Raban:
I've lived within the city limits all these decades and for many years my nose was way too close to the grindstone. When I finally stood up and looked around, man, I found whole new freeways that I did not know were out there. The geometry of the city has gone up, but what's gone out…. Well, that's just growth. (Now how about that as an example of Seattle smug?) And, holy smoke, there's a lot of it. Growth, that is. I'm not gonna vouch for the smug. And what goes on out there is, to me, somewhat mysterious. And, man, I dread the day I get the summons to jury duty in Kent. That's some place half way to Tacoma fer cryin' out loud!
Posted Thu, Jul 12, 2:35 a.m.
I arrived in Seattle in 1973 (my birth). I attended both private and public schools. Graduated from Garfield High School and went off to college before returning to Seattle in the mid 90's. I became a became a carpenter and proceeded too re-aquaint myself with my hometown as an adult.
I was intrigued. In my estimation "Sleepless in Seattle", "Singles", Starbucks and the 'Grunge' scene had introduced the Puget Sound area to the rest of the country, if not the world. In those days it was a rare to meet someone my age (late twenties) who actually grew up here. It was my first introduction to the profound shift that was occurring. Microsoft, sure, but popular culture provided the landscape in my world. The kids At Linda's bar on Pine St., for the most part were not 'from here'.
I do not mean to state my qualifications. I merely lament the dilution of a regional culture. My culture.
Northwesterners. We wait at street corners for the light. We support hopeless sports teams, we lose our sunglasses. Grey skies. Beautiful summers. Grey skies.
It's sad to see it go. A regional identity is long in the making. Has it become an anachronism?.
Posted Thu, Jul 12, 9:57 a.m.
How could I forget....: In my list (above) of stores/services in my neighborhood I am ashamed to say that I forgot to include the space travel supply store! I'd like to see some other metropolis come up with one of those!
Posted Thu, Jul 12, 8:17 p.m.
RE: I guess that's just how it goes....: I was born here and went to Garfield too. Wouldn't wait for a walk light if my life depended on it, assuming no cars were coming. Jaywalking is a sign of a healthy city.
Posted Fri, Jul 13, 4:19 p.m.
More Totem Poles!: There's nothing quite like the northwest self-awareness of the not-so distant past, however fantasia it rolls, we seem to only grow a greater identity through the steady diet. More power to it! Nowhere else in the lower 48 can claim the distinction of a daily 6am happy hour directly in front of a statue of the city's native namesake. I could stand a few more of those absurdly regional nods and their like and fewer of the cheapo multi-story trailers with cafe entrances masquerading as condominiae myself. If it makes me a sentimental, then ok.
Posted Wed, Jul 18, 1:15 p.m.
The archive is here: http://www.kuow.org/defaultProgram.asp?ID=12066
Posted Wed, Jul 18, 4:52 p.m.
about a " Duwamish of the mind " -
this place that we all have caught glimpses of.
What i remember most about growing up here in Seattle,
is the taste of dirt from my parent's backyard garden,
that i ate as a toddler, with sweetbitter glee,
and that hence came to inculcate me,
along with the scent of saltwater, Puget Sound,
and the foghorns of childhood fantasy. 7/18/07
This romance…
This love
This Seattle.
Born on her hill
As was my mother
As was she...
And now
Her Ladyship,
Still too young
To dance with Chicago,
She dances with me
As old man New York sits
While I waltz
Flush with glee.
And later,
Not far from the Sunday Ballroom Cathedral
of her hills,
In the riverlands of the Duwamish,
I sweet sleep deep,
Craddled in the folds and holds,
Of night harbor music
and the lyrical tapestry
of her arms...
"The Two Best Poets in Washington State Since 1889"
Win, place and show
The second best poet is silver
And this be poetical,
Upon myself bestow.
The gold is Richard Hugo,
My neighbor at West Seattle High,
A generation before me,
With forty years of overlap
Under the same Seattle sky.
Indigene sons of Washington soil
Born, bred and begotten
Within the same Seattle mile,
Where tugboats would toil
And foghorns were heard,
With Liberty ships
Through the Ballard Locks
In single file.
We were the lads
In the Spring
Of Evergreen's history,
While the carpetbaggers
Of the poetry business,
Didn't arrive until the Fall.
Still, our Big Mountain
Is big hearted
And all are welcome -
Come one and come all!
Though one must remember
That Lady Rainier, you see,
Dances her best
With Richard and me,
And only the honor
Of her embrace
Can place bards and poets
Upon the high mantle
Of Northwest native grace.
So come ye troubadour and penman
And pay your homage and due,
To the land of Cascades and Olympia,
With lines, couplets and sonnets
And a chapbook or two,
As nimbus and karma,
And the aura and muse
Of poet Richard Hugo,
Place a blessing upon you.
Thank You,
Jay ( email@example.com )
Posted Wed, Jul 18, 7:01 p.m.
At the Seattle City Council, a new young councilor, a former commercial banker, had the bright idea that if all environmental, historical, zoning, planning and traffic regulations were just eliminated, then the healing power of unbound free market capitalism would solve all our problems. Of course, as we've now come to learn, it was his actions, more than any other over the intervening thirty years, that caused the untold misery, greed, despair, and exploitation we have endured.
His name was Norm Rice.
Uncle Mike
Posted Tue, Jul 24, 3:43 p.m.
RE: But What Do We Mean When We Say "Seattle"?: Yes, that was an interesting discussion, although it was a real mistake including Kunstler who virtually would not engage either with Stadler or Lang, both of whom spoke soberly about the facts at hand, while Kunstler raged and fantasized about a post-oil america and destruction of the suburbs. Should someone who hates our downtown library so fanatically be given any platform in Seattle? Better if Knute B. or Raban had been on the program. Some interesting things were said by Stadler and Lang, but mostly I was fearful for that Steve Scher would have aneurysm.
Posted Tue, Jan 1, 5:20 a.m.
about settlers and the railroad in Montana - one of his best books and relevant to Seattle.
Posted Thu, Jan 3, 12:28 a.m.
Tacoma is different. It's historic character is largely intact, thanks in large part to the fact that for a very long time, nobody cared enough about it to tear down its decrepid old structures and build anew. Once Tacoma's fortunes finally began to turn in the early 1990s, the regional mentality had shifted to valuing the preservation of historic character.
Tacoma has improved immensely over the past decade. It's really quite nice. (Yes, I know that you, Seattle, will continue to happily sneer down your collective nose, stubborn in your blind insistance that Tacoma is still the stinky, crime-ridden city it was 25 years ago. That's fine, your ignorance keeps our house prices somewhat reasonable.)
But unlike Seattle's futuristic projects, Tacoma's improvements have mostly been made within its historic character, evidenced both by the reuse of treasured old buildings (see brick warehouses turned into the UW-T campus or Union Station remade into a federal courthouse) and by new developments that pay architectural homage to the past (the new museums).
Furthermore, while Seattle continues to marginalize blue-collar industry, having long ago blocked the Port from expanding and now having "world-classed" South Lake Union, Tacoma continues to encourage blue-collar growth, limiting residential and commercial development in its expansive industrial lands. Port jobs may not be as glamorous as software engineering, but they pay about the same, and the historic character isn't driven away. Hip Tacomans (who are far less cool than Seattle's hipsters, thank god) have bestowed the nickname Grit City on their hometown.
I think that grit is exactly what the author is missing in Seattle. Maybe spending some time in the shadow of Exit 133 would be just the thing. Not that we care.
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This is the first of Waldo's illustrations I remember seeing. Other images might have preceded it. What struck me about this one was:
- Her simple smile of pleased amusement.
- Genital leashes – instant omnipotence – always make me dizzy.
All that seems to be known of the artist who signs himself Waldo is that he was born in France and lives in Belgium.
Do you enjoy his F/m artwork?
Originally posted 2010-08-08 11:37:06. Republished by Blog Post Promoter


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Raw video: Flames shoot out of bus on interstate
UPDATED 3:35 PM CDT Jul 09, 2014Viewer video shows flames and smoke pouring from a bus on Interstate 80 near Giles Road on Wednesday afternoon.
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Barry Cofield: What Sparked Defensive Improvement In Last 2 Games
Washington Redskins Adam Carriker and Chuck Carroll are joined by Barry Cofield on 4th & Pain.
What changed for the defense between first three games and a stronger showing in the last two?
cue to 1:23
Thoughts on Jay Cutler and the Chicago Bears
cue to 2:35
What have the Redskins missed without having Carriker on the field?
cue to 3:25
Carriker and Cofield get into a Nebraska-Northwestern wager
cue to 4:11
Favorite pro wrestlers of all-time
cue to 5:33
Thoughts on Montreal Screwjob
cue to 6:20
Favorite match of all-time
cue to 7:10
Barry asks Adam who his least favorite wrestler of all-time is
cue to 8:34
About 4th & Pain
Washington Redskins defensive end Adam Carriker teams with radio veteran Chuck Carroll to host 4th & Pain — the only football and pro wrestling show hosted by a NFL player and a former wrestling announcer turned weight loss champion.
The show is heard weekends on 106.7 The FAN in Washington, D.C. as well as online each weekday at 1 p.m. ET on 4thAndPain.com as well as the Layfield Report.
Check out the 4th & Pain pro wrestler interviews archive with Goldberg, Ryback, Jeff Hardy, Titus O'Neil, Miz, Kofi Kingston and more.


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New Logitech G13 gameboard offers in-box WoW support
Pretty groovy. It works with both Windows and OS X, and it'll set you back a tidy $80, which seems like a lot for a "gameboard," but then again, if this is the kind of thing you play WoW enough to actually make good use of, you've probably got a way to justify the purchase anyway (and if anyone's looking for a gift for me this year...). Anyone intersted in replacing their Nostromo with this one?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Fan stuff, Odds and ends, Leveling, Wrath of the Lich King, Hardware


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For Sale: 1961 Corvette
Hard Top
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1961 corvette hardtop,great headliner.
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gold watch / bright sweater / classic blazer / floral pants / structured tote / leopard heels / gold cuff
I think everyone can agree that Olivia Palermo has amazing style. She can pull off trends that we would never think of (like this denim on denim combo) and always looks beautiful doing so. She is always the perfect mix of girly, edgy and classic. Yes- somehow this can be achieved. One time a blog reader told me that I reminded them of her and I gasped (oh how I wish I looked like her).
One of my favorite outfits of hers is this printed pants and blazer combo. First off, having the guts to actually wear and pull off printed pants is an achievement in its own. She tones down the bold print and color with a simple black blazer, cheetah heels and a brown bag. Yes, a brown bag with black clothing- it works! If you want to steal her style from the outfit above, here are some copycat pieces:
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Ancient city of Lycia, Anatolia. Situated near the mouth of the Xanthus (modern Esen Cayi) River in present-day southwestern Turkey, its ruins include a theatre, temples, and tombs. A number of pieces were taken for the British Museum. The ancient city was twice besieged and destroyed: in 540 BC by the Persians of the Achaemenian dynasty and in 42 BC by the Romans. The ruins were designated a UNESCO World Heritage site in 1988.
Variants of XANTHUS
Xanthus or Xanthos
This entry comes from Encyclopædia Britannica Concise.
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Photos: Twenty amazing Colorado ski posters
With Christmas and New Year's coming up, the lucky among us often have some time off work. But how best to spend it? Well, in case you haven't noticed, you happen to live in a state with some of the best ski resorts on the planet, and snow conditions this season have been consistently first-rate.Big posters below.
If that's not inspiration enough to hit the slopes, we offer this -- a collection of great Colorado ski posters from yesterday and today. Check out the twenty that caught our eye below.
Continue to see more of our twenty amazing Colorado ski posters gallery.
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Lance Armstrong's former team leader, Johan Bruyneel, will not appear at a hearing Tuesday to discuss his role in the doping scandal, a Belgian prosecutor said on Monday.
Belgian cycling federation prosecutor Jaak Fransen said he will consider whether to pursue the case without Bruyneel attending.
"Whether this is a delay tactic or not, that I cannot say," Fransen said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.
During a 2010 hearing, Bruyneel denied all doping allegations made by disgraced cyclist Floyd Landis against Armstrong. No disciplinary action was taken.
Fransen previously invited Bruyneel to explain himself after the US Anti-Doping Agency charged in October that the Belgian was a central figure in Armstrong's doping programs. He was called again to appear after Armstrong admitted in an interview with Oprah Winfrey that he had doped.
On both occasions, no meeting took place.
"As of yet, I do not consider this as non-cooperation," Fransen said. "In the past, he always said he would be willing to cooperate. 'We will look if we can proceed without his attendance."
Bruyneel has been among Armstrong's closest friends and confidants, and coached the US Postal Service and Discovery Channel teams that dominated the Tour de France during Armstrong's seven-victory reign.
Armstrong has said Bruyneel was like "a brother," and one of the most influential people in his career. As a result, it has been assumed that Bruyneel must at least have known and likely been an accomplice in the doping scandal.
While Armstrong has confessed to doping, Bruyneel intends to fight the USADA accusations and is opting for arbitration.


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