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I saw a few excerpts from this mornings newsshows and big surprise the Republicans are parroting what the NRA tells them to say. Can anyone believe that the republican party isn't bought &paid for by the NRA. All voters should be letting their elected representatives know that gun rights don't equal semi-automatic weapons rights. It's time to let those who suppposedly represent us that this is not acceptable. WHO RUNS THIS COUNTRY, it shouldn't be the NRA. |
Follow-Up Postings:
- Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (email@example.com) on Sun, Dec 23, 12 at 23:37
Sorry, but I have my own mind. I've had a whole lot to say LONG before I rejoined the NRA, and in fact the reason I DID rejoin is just the opposite-- not because I agree with them, but rather because THEY agree with ME. |
So Bill, you agree with their position that guns aren't the problem, because they've blamed everything else except guns and now the republican lawmakers are spewing that crap as dogma. I have no problem with responsible people having guns, I do have a big problem with the total lack of control on who can have guns and what guns they can have. The NRA is disgusting in their lack of responsibility for how guns are managed in this country. How many dead children does it take to realize there needs to be limits on who has guns and what guns they have. I hope no one you love is ever a victim of gun violence because none of us can ever realize how that must feel. |
Bothell: " big surprise the Republicans are parroting what the NRA tells them to say" Which Republicans? Does this statement include conservatives, too? Don't bother; I think I get it :D You beat me to it, Bill. Who says gun ownership rights advocates are parroting the NRA? As far as I'm concerned, the NRA is advocating for what the NRA supporters want. The positions of the NRA don't accurately represent what each specific member/supporter believes in; no organization can do that, but the NRA isn't telling me what I want or what I believe in; I'm telling the NRA. So are a lot of other people, and what the NRA's stated positions, suggestions, ideas, etc. are a critique of ideologies from groups and individuals. The NRA is far from perfect, but it is the major advocate for gun owners/enthusiasts. Speaking of parroting, aren't these tired phrases: lock-step, parroting, spewing, etc., "parroting", too? Something original, please. |
- Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (email@example.com) on Mon, Dec 24, 12 at 0:32
So Bill, you agree with their position that guns aren't the problem, because they've blamed everything else except guns and now the republican lawmakers are spewing that crap as dogma. I believe that a HUGE part of the problem is that the back ground check system isn't being allowed to work the way it's supposed to, that if mentally challenged and emotionally disturbed people were added to the list as they're supposed to be, that many of these tragedies wouldn't occur. Another big part of it is the lack of anyone to defend these kids. On this one, I DO agree with the NRA. There SHOULD be a cop in each school, or atleast allow teachers with permits to carry CONCEALED. And that IS carry-- not put in the desk, or their brief case. That means carry in a holster on their person. I hope no one you love is ever a victim of gun violence A close friend of mine lost his 20 y.o. son last wednesday night to a firearms accident. The kid was cleaning his hunting rifle to put it up for the year-- took out the clip, and forgot there was a round in the chamber. |
I'm really sorry about your friend, Bill. There is nothing on God's good earth more terrible than losing your child. |
My condolences to your friend and his family, Bill. How heartbreaking. Condolences to you, too--when our friends hurt, we do as well. |
"or atleast allow teachers with permits to carry CONCEALED. And that IS carry-- not put in the desk, or their brief case. That means carry in a holster on their person." No, No , No, No, and NO. Do you realize how many times as a teacher that I have had to break up fights in a hallway. I mean that I have to physically restrain adolescents with both arms. I do not always have control of everything on my person like a holstered gun. They could easily take that gun from me in that situation. At my school I know that probably would not happen, but in a rougher school it certainly could. That is a HORRIBLE idea. |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Mon, Dec 24, 12 at 1:57
Frank, the etiquette of hallway fights would have to change. You would need to get permits for tasers and pepper sprays and liberally apply to participants and supporters, as the scene dictates. If that escalates the situation, by all means draw down on the kids and threaten to shoot them. I'm sure such a program would work at least for the first few times. We must protect the children, you know. The solution to gun abuse is not dilution but distribution (of more and larger weapons.) |
Nicely done :). |
Okay ,Bill and all you who are sick of the government being in your face. Who's going to pay for armed guards at every school in America? There would have to be more than one in large institutions. Another question. If guns aren't the issue, does America have more crazy people living here than other countries with low gun deaths? |
I'm certainly not a member of the NRA and would like to see a ban on assault rifles, but something struck me that was said at the news conference. We do have a guard in every bank. Seems our money is more important than our kids. |
What about parochial schools, day care centers, etc., etc., etc.? |
Do you really have an armed guard in every bank? |
- Posted by brushworks Zone5-Ohio (My Page) on Mon, Dec 24, 12 at 8:09
Another blind member of the so called liberal mindset. Please read the entire news, not just the news that has Republican in it. Another prominent Democrat, Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, underwent an even more dramatic conversion. As a member of the House representing a Republican-leaning upstate district in 2008, she voted to repeal a law that banned semiautomatic weapons in the District of Columbia and required gun owners to register their weapons and store them unloaded, with trigger locks. She earned an тАЬAтАЭ rating from the NRA. Even as gun-control advocates complained about her January 2009 appointment to the Senate, she told a newspaper reporter that she kept two rifles under her bed. тАЬIf I want to protect my family, if I want to have a weapon in the home, that should be my right,тАЭ she said. Fairness is not a characteristic of liberals here. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Dems who hate gun control..for political reasons
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Mon, Dec 24, 12 at 8:40
Brush's comment reminds me that personal choices may conflict with larger public policies because personal circumstances cannot be the same for all people. Those that "hate" gun control may not be any more political than those that "love" gun control. Politicizing the issues is a way of pulling special interests into the fray. Every State and territory ought to have a right to set its own standards within the constitutional framework. If you live in a pro-gun state and move to a gun-control state, you would have to comply to the laws and standards of the pro-gun state. Al was looking for solutions. This could be one of them. |
BTW, did you note LaPierre's comb over? Who does he remind you of? |
Another question. If guns aren't the issue, does America have more crazy people living here than other countries with low gun deaths? Oh guns are the issue, but apparently it isn't the mentally ill that you have to worry about,it is all the "sane" crazies with guns. Apparently only about 4% of violent crimes are committed by the mentally ill. |
Here is a link that might be useful: A Misguided Focus on Mental Illness
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Mon, Dec 24, 12 at 10:36
You mean that someone killing one or more people without government permission is a priori NOT insane? Ninety-six percent of the perps are sane? Brings us to Evil and the minions of Satan then. |
- Posted by jerzeegirl 9 (My Page) on Mon, Dec 24, 12 at 10:37
Do you really have an armed guard in every bank? No. |
Thank God!!!! |
We already have armed police at the high school and middle school. Now we need them to ride the buses, be at the bus stops, come to all the sporting events and graduations, concerts, and all activities, as well as all the elementary schools. The school police are already involved with taking care of fights, theft, traffic in the HS parking lot, and intervention with troubled kids. So we'll need several police at each school. Every year, there are at least a dozen fights that that the teachers break up. One last year was rather memorable when an enormous, really strong kid 'lost it' and it took half a dozen teachers to subdue him, sending two to the hospital. And what happened to "trash the teachers" and bad, bad teachers unions and horrible liberals in our schools? Now they should be armed to keep the NRA free to lobby for unrestricted military weaponry everywhere? |
- Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on Mon, Dec 24, 12 at 11:17
To assume that all gun owners are republicans is as wrong as it gets. To assume all gun owners agree with everything said by an NRA member is equally wrong. To assume that people always vote for only candidates of a single party is wrong. "All voters should be letting their elected representatives know..." Whatever's on their minds! |
- Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (firstname.lastname@example.com) on Mon, Dec 24, 12 at 17:10
Okay ,Bill and all you who are sick of the government being in your face. Who's going to pay for armed guards at every school in America? I find it interesting that jg chimes in about armed gards in banks, but not about the ones in schools when the reason I know it could work is from the time I lived in south Florida in the MID 90's and there were Metro Dade cops in every single school, from kindergarten to high school. No one saw anything wrong with it, and in fact it was a POSITIVE INFLUENCE on relations between young kids and the police. But yet, JG stays silent there. I guess she's not allowed to speak up when it contradicts the liberal agenda here in the forum. |
Ann T is right. Most mass murderers are not mentally ill. Remember Breivik in Norway and that horrible school shooting in 2011? Totally sane but a narcissist. |
- Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (email@example.com) on Tue, Dec 25, 12 at 11:54
I'm sorry, but I can't disagree more. ANYONE who goes into any kind of crowd and opens fire looking to do as much damage as possible and kill as many as he can, isn't right in the head. He may not be insane by the legal definition in that he knew what he was doing and can aid in his own defense. But that doesn't mean his elevator goes all the way to the penthouse. |
It's about time some of us showed up to offer an alternative view to those that would gut the bill of rights, piecemeal, for their illusion (of safety). I just mentioned on another thread that I received about a dozen positive emails (comments about another thread), several from largely lurkers who feel so overwhelmed by the tenor of this forum that they won't even bother to comment on anything political because they know they'll be bullied and shouted down. How 'tolerant' is THAT? What you're seeing is the result of gun owners becoming increasingly weary of being treated like they slapped someone's mother. I'm not a republican OR a democrat. I vote in every election, but I haven't voted Rep or Dem for a president since I voted to keep Gore out, because as far as I'm concerned, we haven't had a candidate qualified to lead the country. Most mass murders are not mentally ill?? That's incredibly ...... interesting. GMAB Al |
How about making it illegal to keep a loaded gun where a toddler can get it and shoot himself? How about slapping a 10 year jail sentence on someone that stupid? How about making gun owners carry liability insurance - if they leave their weapons somewhere stupid and they get stolen, then they're liable for the damage their guns cause? Might see gun owners become a lot more responsible and careful how they keep their weapons, don't you think.? And I agree with many hunters and sportsmen that there is no reason for semi-automatic weapons with extended magazines - 30, 50, 100 rounds, certainly sold to anybody and everybody who wants one. And I don't think we need the gun show 'loophole' to continue. We closed that here in Colorado after Columbine, and there are still plenty of ads in the newspaper for private, unlicensed people selling and trading their guns. But at least we don't have some massive, all-in-one marketplace where anybody that has the cash can buy any gun they desire, no back ground checks or anything, hundreds of not thousands of guns trading hands in a single weekend. As for concealed carry - fine. Do a rigorous course, maybe have a competency test every five- ten years. Not the nonsense going on in Arizona and other states where all you have to do is ask for one, no exams, tests, training, or anything. Now as a long-time gun owner, hunter, target shooter, etc, none of these restrictions make me wring my hankie about losing my 2nd amendment rights. |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Tue, Dec 25, 12 at 13:26
Al, for the timorous defenders of the 2nd Amendment lurking out there, the act of expressing one's POV and the resulting backlash only hurts the ego and challenges one's beliefs in non-threatening ways. IOW if they are too "chicken" to participate, they should remain lurking and communicate with you by private and secure emails. By the way, Ron Paul is against armoring schools too. He is very pro-gun, of course, but is for small government and large and healthy civil society doing for itself. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Ron Paul nixes NRA proposal to put armed security in every school
Ron Paul is a man I respect and admire. I wish he was our president. Note that he said: "Real change can happen only when we commit ourselves to rebuilding civil society in America, meaning a society based on family, religion, civic and social institutions, and peaceful cooperation through markets. We cannot reverse decades of moral and intellectual decline by snapping our fingers and passing laws." Would you say it's primarily the left or the right contributing to this decline? You might consider the 'right' a throwback, but I wouldn't mind seeing us go back to a more moral time. He also CONDEMNED the left for the knee jerk reaction I've been addressing for the few days I've been here. "Paul also slammed the response to the shooting from the '"political left,"' saying he found '"emotional calls for increased gun control"' to be '"misguided"'." I also noted that Mr. Paul didn't offer anything immediate that would help the children. I've be asking if anyone has a better plan than putting guards (no matter how distasteful it is to ALL of us - including me), into place? Anyone? Al |
I've be asking if anyone has a better plan than putting guards (no matter how distasteful it is to ALL of us - including me), into place? Anyone? In fact, several people have offered options which include limiting access to certain kinds of guns and ammunition and more requirements (responsibility) on gun owners. I guess because they don't fit your agenda, you don't hear them. |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Tue, Dec 25, 12 at 15:45
Hard to believe it but Al and I seem to be the only pro-Ron Paul posters on HT. Small government, non-imperial foreign policy, strong local communities, truly free markets, and sensible gun control. |
I'm just telling you what I have read (about mass murderers) In fact, I read an article in Newsweek in the Dr's office well before these last few shootings and it described mass murders in 3 categories and only one was mentally ill. I agree that a sane person would not be able to comprehend how a person could do that who was not mentally ill. But, as I mentioned, the Norway shooter of 2011 was found to be sane, not mentally ill. The nut job who ambushed the firefighters this past week and killed two said he just liked to kill people. ?? |
- Posted by fouquieria 10b (My Page) on Tue, Dec 25, 12 at 16:45
Birthers, baggers, secessionists, now they want to deport Piers Morgan. By the way, how are all these gun-totin' school pistoleros going to deal with high-powered scope-equipped snipers? It just goes on and on. -Ron- |
Funny that they want to deport Piers Morgan. They are upset that they think he's after their right to bear arms. However, they are fine with trying to stop his right to freedeom of speech. And, I'm sure they don't see the hypocrisy in that. |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Tue, Dec 25, 12 at 19:38
The Second Amendment trumps all the others, being the only one with absolute rights and the one protecting us against tyranny of big government. Right? |
Jill - we don't have a magic wand that will eliminate guns in the hands of criminals. To limit the law abiding citizen's access to guns makes everyone BUT criminals, who will still have guns, vulnerable and completely at the mercy of criminals. That's your plan? In order for that plan to work, you would HAVE to disarm criminals first, and have a plan to keep it as such. Are you with me insofar as the logic in that. If not, I invite you to reason your way around what I said. It's not about an agenda, it's about being realistic. "The nut job who ambushed the firefighters this past week and killed two said he just liked to kill people. ??" .... and that's someone's ... anyone's idea of normal?? Yeah, Ron, it goes on and on. You think maybe guns can be uninvented? You think any guy with access to a machine shop isn't going to start producing semi-automatic or FULLY automatic guns the day they are banned? They would now, if they could produce them competitively. You're simply being totally unrealistic. You have a dream, and all you see is a vision of it's fruition - you have no idea how or what it takes to get there. You can't even make a logical stab at eliminating the truly bad ideas. The biggest obstacle we need to get over is, millions of guns are in the hands of criminals and madmen. If you can't solve that problem, you can't solve anything. Al |
The proposed plans I mentioned were to limit the types of guns available and the types of ammunition available. The fewer guns of mass destruction there are, the fewer can fall into the hands of those that shouldn't have them. But it's very clear to me that as soon as anyone talks about any kinds of limits on guns or ammunition, you stop listening and revert to NRA talk. Clearly no point to the discussion that you claimed you wanted to have. |
Jill - please flesh out your plan so we can ALL see how it's going to work. I think what you just said is incredibly naive, but at the same time - you can never discount the fact that you might hit on the one simple solution to this very complex problem that millions wrestling with it, including me, have overlooked. You don't really think that if I thought a law limiting types of guns available would help, I wouldn't be for it - do you? You absolutely must have the answer to how to get the guns out of the hands of bad guys FIRST - or you turn everyone into victims. When you have that answer, get back to me please, and I promise I'll use it in every post - but it has to pass the logic sniff test. Informed gun owners aren't against all laws, but they ARE against stupid, feel-good laws, and particularly those that are clearly shown to lead to a slippery slope. We understand there is and has been a gun-grabbing element that wants ALL guns out of the hands of private citizens. Look no further than this forum for absolute proof of that. Al |
"I agree that a sane person would not be able to comprehend how a person could do that who was not mentally ill. But, as I mentioned, the Norway shooter of 2011 was found to be sane, not mentally ill." The Norway shooter of 2011 was found to be sane. OJ was found not guilty. ---------------- |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Tue, Dec 25, 12 at 22:20
Well, Al is already ignoring me. I lay out principles important to the Defenders of the 2nd Amendment in very clear terms without allllll that extra fear-mongering thrown in to pull everyone's trigger (pun intended). Maybe not very pretty reading. Not enough italicizing and bold-ing and upper case formats, and quote marks. |
Why would I assume you want me to answer your question? or you that I would want to? If you don't know the answer, maybe someone else who wants to get into a protracted semantical argument will .... or you could look it up. I must have missed all those important principles. Al |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 0:06
[chuckling] Brush up on your put downs, Al. In the meantime: "The Second Amendment trumps all the others, being the only one with absolute rights and the one protecting us against tyranny of big government. Right?" From earlier today, one I consider the principle stance of the gun enthusiasts, survivalists, and anarchists. |
- Posted by jon_in_wessex z8/9 UK (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 2:20
The only sort of gun control that works is No Guns. No guns for the public, the criminals or the police. Even that is not perfect, but it is generally effective. You are not going to do that. At most, there may be a bit of tinkering around with specific weapons but that will not stop either gun crime or massacres. Americans have their own cultural reasons for living with guns, which sets them apart from those countries that do not. It is nobody else's place to pass judgement on that. End of argument for me. Best wishes |
I wonder how much the NRA is paying Al? He suddenly appears here like probably thousands of others have on all the diverse forums on the web. They have their marching orders and points to try to sway. Ain't working this time, Al. |
david has fleshed out this type of plan very nicely. Repeatedly. Go read it. You don't really think that if I thought a law limiting types of guns available would help, I wouldn't be for it - do you? Yes, actually I do think that if it limited your access to those guns. Therefore, no point in discussing. |
Looks like a Duel is the only way to settle this, may the "good guy" win. |
- Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 10:35
If every gun owner and defender of the 2nd amendment is going to be accused of being a mouthpiece for the NRA, it eliminates one of the reasons not to join. And when that's the only chink one can find in an argument, some perceived connection to some organization, it doesn't make the argument any less strong. Trying to degrade what is said by simply connecting it to the NRA is as meaningless as trying to connect gun owners to a particular political party, even when they tell you that's wrong. The reactionary, emotional statements I read here would be much more accurately labeled as "talking points" and are hopefully not indicative of the ability of most adults to have logical, sane, practical thoughts about difficult issues. If you think scoring points on an internet forum by insulting someone will strengthen your position, you may be someone without the mental facilities to process difficult issues, unfortunately rendering it impossible for you to make a substantial contribution. Workable solutions will come from reason and logic, not emotions and unbridled passion, regardless of how emotional and passionate anyone might be about any particular issue. Those should be one's motivation to seek the truth, some solution, not to craft zingers. The mere presence of a firearm does not dispose anyone to become homicidal. Trying to figure out "what goes wrong" in the minds of these wackos, or at least to recognize one when they are in our midst, are the only actions we can take to try to prevent future tragedies. The fact that nobody knows how to do that sadly and unfortnately still does not make it possible to UNinvent any kind of guns, or remove them from any "bad hands" already possessing them. Let's really examine what is acceptable in our society... It is acceptable for some children to be injured on school buses that have no seat belts because it would be too expensive to install them while senators live like royalty with unlimited health care that actually provides them and their family with "the good stuff" as they fly around in private aircraft and ride in vehicles with bullet-proof glass. There are many videos from cameras in school buses that show what happens when one tips or flips. Horrific and preventable. It is not acceptable to allow anyone into a courthouse or many other public buildings full of adults without passing through a metal detector (facilitated by police officers) because public servants deserve and require protection from the public they are serving. It is acceptable for schools, well publicized gun (defense) free zones, to be completely unstaffed by law enforcement or protected in any way besides a locked door and video camera. Extremely unlikely the glass is even bullet proof. It is not acceptable for any member of any family who has ever had a president in it to come to harm in public, so the taxpayers foot whatever bill is necessary to ensure it doesn't happen. It is not acceptable for anyone who testifies in a criminal trial to experience retaliation, so the government will pay to move them and change their life/name around. It is acceptable in the name of saving a few bucks to not thoroughly check the backgrounds of those applying for daycare, janitorial, and other jobs around children. Horrific and preventable. Why does our society protect adults in general, and public servants particularly, more vigilantly and capably than children? If protecting children is the goal, so many things could be easily accomplished in that regard that have nothing to do with guns. Is it really about the numbers, of which those for preventable accidents are much smaller per incident but so much higher collectively, or about the horror of single incidents with a high number? I'm sure we would all prefer to address both, should viable solutions exist. The public servants in public buildings have decided to spend however many tax dollars they need to keep themselves safe but say we have no money to protect schools or buses to the same degree. Compare the "gun issue" to nuclear weapons. The mutually assured destruction. It is the same with guns, the reasonable expectation of force, both by a potential perpetrator of a crime, and the potential victim. With countries, the knowledge that both sides are capable of destroying the other is reason to not use them. But they exist. Deciding it would be better if they were not here does not cause them to cease to exist. As we have seen, it has caused them to come under the control of dangerous hands. It is because other countries (and possibly wackos) have them that we keep some around. The same is for "military style assault weapons" which have been explained as no different in action than many other weapons nobody is railing against, just in appearance. They exist. When law abiding citizens are not permitted to have them, they do not magically cease to exist. I don't think wackos really care what a gun looks like, just what it does, but that's certainly only logical supposition, which may not be and probably is not applicable to the behavior of wackos. When one has the reasonable expectation that a threat may arise in the form of a semi-automatic weapon, the reasonable preparation for defense would be to have a semi-automatic weapon to ensure the possibility of neutralizing that threat. Or a security system which can withstand such attack. Criminals who were already breaking laws, or wackos who could care less about any law will not likely succumb to the new law and surrender whatever guns they have stolen, or decide not to steal guns for their deranged plans. So then criminals have a situation where their reasonable expectation of force available against them will be less. They already have that. Turning a semi-automatic weapon into a fully automatic weapon is something many criminals can do, and do do, even though the law says they may not. What is it about any type of gun law that makes people think THOSE are the ones criminals will heed? Do you really think someone who is willing to break a law that says murder is illegal will choose their weapon based on the laws of the day and location? Would we feel better if they murder in accord with the gun laws? If a wacko wants to kill many people, a fast-shooting gun is certainly not the only option. Especially if they are an adult man (or man-sized boy) and the target is women and children. |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 11:14
Thanks, purpleinopp, for your long and thoughtful post. I and most people in opposition on HT don't believe that the NRA is the cause of the current controversy but recognize that the organization's leaders have stepped into the public forum to lead the pro-gun, anti-regulatory battle. You can't deny that. Placing metal detectors, security personnel, and impenetrable defense in all public places (including major and minor shopping centers as well as schools) would cost the taxpayers trillions of dollars in defense against handguns in the hands of nutters. There are other ways of killing people that will not stop public killings, too numerous to iterate and some very lethal. In the meantime, a large and hyper-alert population of poorly trained gun wielders will primed to shoot first when feeling threatened. Killings will be few but the incidents much more common than at present. I would not want to be a policeman or other safety officer in that kind of environment. M.A.D. works because atomic weapons are held by relatively few countries and those stockpiles are closely held under extreme guardianship. Criminals and nutters are unlikely to acquire such weapons or have the skill to make them from lesser explosives. So that argument is spurious. The uneven and apparently unfair distribution of safety technology against harm concerns the values our leaders place on different segments of civil society. School buses should require seat belts, as you rightly post. Most of us do not have the resources to match security provisions enjoyed by public officials and the more wealthy among us. This fixation on criminals having guns is interesting because the criminals have always been armed in this country except perhaps burglars and white-collar criminals. The penalties for even brandishing a gun are so severe that many petty criminals try not to use them. Criminal gangs are never mentioned in these kinds of discussions because they are a threat not only to other competing gangs but to law enforcement and to those they prey on. Most of us never have to confront these gangs unless we interfere with gang operations. All the handguns in the world will not protect you or your family against the cold-blooded wrath of such gangs. Well, I have to get to work after the long weekend and holiday. Best to you and a belated Merry Christmas. |
- Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 11:24
"the organization's leaders have stepped into the public forum to lead the pro-gun, anti-regulatory battle. You can't deny that." Being completely unfamiliar with the NRA, and who might or might not be a member, (besides Charlton Heston,) what they might or might not say, where they might or might not say it, it would be impossible for me to even ruminate about such. HT has taught me the name of their spokesperson. That is my extent of knowledge about the NRA, so I'll trust your apparently more fully educated opinion. Either way, I don't care about the NRA and have never given that more than a passing thought, but what I've read this past week on HT makes me think it may be something I should investigate to see if I think membership would correlate to defense of the 2nd amendment. "Placing metal detectors, security personnel, and impenetrable defense in all public places" Your idea, not mine. |
Slightly off topic, one reason they don't have seat belts in school busses is because the kids won't necessarily wear them, or put them on wrong, and then there's the whole thing of seat size / child size where parents keep their kids in a booster seat until they're 12 or something. So you'd have to have the driver or someone else move along constantly and check to see if the seat belts were worn properly. IOW, its not that easy. |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 11:30
Purp, I have read on dozens of boards and comment sections nearly word-for-word that disclaimer about knowledge of the NRA and the concluding suggestion about joining the NRA in response to our opposition to its stances. Sorry, your credibility just took a nosedive. Marshall |
- Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 12:02
That's fine, and irrelevant. My credibility has nothing to do with the issue. A habitual liar is still correct if they say the sky is blue. I expected stereotypical personal attacks by posting here, status quo. |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 12:18
Thanks you, purp, for your continued dodges from commenting on my points. This seems to be the pattern of non-responsiveness of your kind of defender of absolutist gun rights. |
- Posted by nancy_in_venice_ca SS24 z10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 12:39
M.A.D. works because atomic weapons are held by relatively few countries and those stockpiles are closely held under extreme guardianship. Funny but I remember all the protest in Europe re U.S. nukes being placed in bases on that continent. Same for the U.K. Anyone else remember the long occupation outside Greenham Commons' RAF base? With U.S. Cruise missiles stationed in Europe at short distances from the Soviet Union, we were forcing them into a "launch on warning" nuclear response. If M.A.D. were so perfect, why the continual push for disarmament and restrictions on development of new weapons and technology. And if M.A.D. functions so well, why the near hysteria regarding Iran's development of nuclear energy? Greenham Common Women's Peace Camp edited for missing word |
This post was edited by nancy_in_venice_ca on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 13:23
- Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 12:43
Marshall, I read what you said and respect it. Did I miss a question? If not, what did you say to which you were expecting a response? I just read your last few posts again and still see nothing that seems to request a response from me or anyone else. As you have said you have doubts about my veracity, I don't see your point in soliciting any further input from me or why it would interest you, but would consider and be happy to answer any questions to which my response would have some meaning for you, in regard to the topic. Please do not put words in my mouth, such as absolutist. |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 13:08
Well, purp, the way debates go is for you to make your points (which you did very well) and then I make my points in rebuttal. You then come back with comments to refute my rebuttal, if you can. Coming back with ad hominen attacks does not do much to advance debate nor does throwing aside such a meaningful term as "absolutist" as not worthy of discussion merit applause. This discussion in the end comes down to the very unclear meanings within the Second Amendment. The absolutist interpretation is that there can be no limits put on gun ownership by government, the current accepted exceptions being convicted felons and the criminally insane. Period. Before the Constitution was ratified, the weak central government under Washington did not even field an army, so to put down the Shay Rebellion, had to search for militias. The States and Commonwealths had little to offer, so Washington had to scramble to find enough men to suppress the rebellion. Later, under the Constitution and 2nd Amendment, Washington called up State militias to help put down the Whiskey Rebellion. The idea that current times require well-armed private militias to resist the government would have been seen as seditious by Washington and the Founders. Keeping of firearms by upright citizens would seem to them to be prudent, based on the life styles of the time. I am not sure how far these men would have gone to regulate private ownership of military style weapons. |
Lily - I'm not trying to sway you, I could care less what you think, but I will point to flaws in your reasoning or present the other half of one-sided pictures when they are painted. It's actually very helpful for others to see how some people respond when they have nothing to offer the conversation, yet feel the need to do their part by poisoning the well. That tactic is usually indicative of a weak position, or a comment made by someone who lacks sufficient understanding of the topic to make meaningful contributions to the conversation. The insult, from you, doesn't really bother me, because it DOES offer me the opportunity to call attention to the tactic, so thank you. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. The founders were not fond of a strong central government, and wanted the people to always have the ability to restrain an overzealous government, or overthrow it if they felt it necessary, and to protect themselves and their properties. The Second amendment, in its two parts, addresses the right to keep and bear arms collectively and individually. As I think about the 'individual right' - the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed, it seems odd that anyone would deny the fact it IS an individual right, when all you need to do is look at who 'the people' are as they are referred to in the first and fourth amendment. If the people were only the militia, it would be as logical to interpret the first amendment to mean that only Christians were to have freedom of religion; or preventing abridging the freedom of speech would only be extended to orators of high status, or freedom of the press would be extended to newspapers and a few printing presses producing pamphlets; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble meant that you could only assemble if you were peaceful and quiet. Instead, 'the people' means the whole of the people - you and me - everyone. Who is guaranteed The right to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, and not be violated, or have warrants issued except upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized? Is it limited to people who own houses and pay taxes? People that have already been arrested? any other special group? or is it to everyone - again, the whole of the people? If first and fourth amendment rights are extended and gladly enjoyed by the body of all of "the people", why should we feel as though we are not enjoined from infringing on the right of the body of all of 'the people. to keep and bear arms? "In the meantime, a large and hyper-alert population of poorly trained gun wielders will primed to shoot first when feeling threatened. Killings will be few but the incidents much more common than at present. I would not want to be a policeman or other safety officer in that kind of environment." This is the same type of prediction hysterically presented and preceding every single relaxation of gun laws (a state becoming a 'shall issue' state, for instance). The press and every anti-gun group invariably predicts the worst, but it never materializes. In fact, the pendulum usually swings in the opposite direction if it swings at all. The NRA and GOA and a few other smaller organizations have its spokesmen that you might occasionally catch on TV, especially now because of the sensationalistic nature of the recent shootings. You don't normally see them at other times except on channels watched mainly by sportsman because it's hard to argue with their logic. The anti gunners have people like Obama, Biden, Holder, Gore, Feinstein, Schumer, Gumble, Costas, Rosie, Oprah ....... and the list goes on & on. Here is something people with an anti-gun position might consider: I think gun control advocates should join together and all clearly post their homes as being gun-free zones. That would demonstrate both the advocates solidarity and sincerity - sort of like cheer-leading for each other. Since these zones will be recognized as gun-free, and in order to prevent gun violence by proxy, please be sure if you discover someone breaking into your home, when you dial 911 that you don't forget to tell the operator to tell the police to leave their guns at the station, all the while remembering it's safer in your home when you're unarmed than it is when you have a gun, AND the fallacy in the statement "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun". (That should take some of the pressure off the rest of us.) "911. What is the nature of your emergency?" "HELP!! SEND THE POLICE!! HELP! Someone is breaking through my back door with an axe. NO - THERE'S TWO OF THEM! Send the police ..... but for the love of ______ (insert deity), tell them to leave their guns at the station!" Al |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 16:29
Another hysterical response from Al. Both definitions of hysterical. Be afraid, very afraid! |
- Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 17:57
"Coming back with ad hominen attacks" Such as? My post was not addressed at anyone in particular and contained no attacks. |
On this thread, Marshall very recently said: "Coming back with ad hominem attacks does not do much to advance debate ...." I agree, but I'm not sure how he'd square the 'hysterical response' comment a post or two above, with that admonition? Purple - the back & forth exchanges just plays into his hands. The best course is ignoring someone when their focus is on producing heat instead of light. Al |
In case anyone is interested in the actual numbers, you can go here for the NRA: http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000082&cycle=2012 and here for labor unions in general: No surprise. It's the democrats who are ruled by the unions. The NRA gave $1,061,710 in total political contributions most of which went to GOP candidates. Unions gave $413,556 to Barack Obama ALONE! |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 18:51
Al, you make me question your reading ability (not your intelligence, of course). You declaimed my post by quote as hysterical and then proceeded to doubling down with fear-mongering in detail. That's is why your post was so funny. I would just love to get some real responses to the points I posted without the responding rhetorical flourishes and diversions. Fat chance, that. |
- Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (email@example.com) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 19:32
"The Second Amendment trumps all the others, being the only one with absolute rights and the one protecting us against tyranny of big government. Right?" From earlier today, one I consider the principle stance of the gun enthusiasts, survivalists, and anarchists. Sorry, but I disagree. I'm a gun enthusiast, and I couldn't agree more with that statement. They're ALL absolute rights. Every last one of them. The only difference netween the 2nd and the rest of the Bill of Rights is that the 2nd gives the rest teeth. Without the 2nd amendment, sooner or later some maroon would come along and try to flush democracy down the drain. The proposed plans I mentioned were to limit the types of guns available and the types of ammunition available. > Jill-- what types of ammo would you "limit the availability" of? |
- Posted by fouquieria 10b (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 19:33
I would just love to get some real responses to the points I posted without the responding rhetorical flourishes and diversions. Fat chance, that. Well, those tactics probably worked in fig-ville. -Ron- |
- Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (firstname.lastname@example.com) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 19:51
Where are the points, Marshall? I'll see what I can do. |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 19:57
I suppose you are right, Ron. Bill, your argument about the absolute right to bear arms cannot stand up to how the other Amendments were written. You as a private citizen of sound mind and body and means, may have an absolute right to "bear arms" (I love that) but if you are a law breaker or are deemed a threat to society, the right is removed. The felony or condition for forfeiture may not involve weapons at all. Therefore, it is not an absolute right. |
- Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (firstname.lastname@example.com) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 20:13
Marshall-- but so are the others if you commit a felony. ALL rights, including the one of freedom (for atleast some time), are removed. The ONLY rights not forfeited that I can think of are the rights to representation and against self incrimintation. |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 20:39
Okay, so we agree on the basic principle that in the interest of a civil society and in response to antisocial/mental health issues, that society may limit the right to bear arms. I have unregistered weapons because I've had them so long they were grand-fathered in. (edited remove too much information.) |
This post was edited by marshallz10 on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 20:40
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 20:41
but I don't claim to be more than a passive gun owner. Occasionally my son and I take shooting practice with his handguns. |
Seen on Facebook: "We reduced drunk driving without a total ban on alcohol. |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 21:50
Hoot! very clever |
- Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (firstname.lastname@example.com) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 22:05
Okay, so we agree on the basic principle that in the interest of a civil society and in response to antisocial/mental health issues, that society may limit the right to bear arms. Only in so far as the paramters by which all the other rights may be removed by law.. I have unregistered weapons because I've had them so long they were grand-fathered in. Understood, and I don't blame you. Although registration is voluntary in cases of private sales here in Maine, I also choose not to register them. But let me ask you-- if you advocate for giun registry, they why not volutarily register the ones that were grandfathered? :-) Nevermind-- I know the answer, and I agree. |
- Posted by marshallz10 z9-10 CA (My Page) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 22:31
Right, these are family heirlooms and not designated for the gun trade. Besides, I don't want to be in another govt database. :) |
- Posted by bill_vincent Central Maine (firstname.lastname@example.com) on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 23:54
Like I said.... :-) |
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text:
Whoa. We totally just found our favorite new blog (besides The Frisky, of course!) — a San Francisco writer named Casey is rereading and recapping the entire Sweet Valley High series. On the off chance a few of you readers weren't fans of the series, it was the book series for tweens growing up in the '80s and provided loads of thinly veiled sexual innuendo that overwhelmed our sense of what life would be like once we got our period. The series followed identical twins (twins were a big thing in the '80s) Elizabeth and Jessica Wakefield around their totally perfect town in California. Both of the twins were blond, with green-blue eyes and size-six figures, which permanently imprinted in our brains that a six was the size to be if we were going to be popular in high school. Keep reading »
Zergnet: Simply Irresistible
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
Meaningful conversations about brand, from Davis Brand Capital.
The most successful beer marketers in the world have crossed a line. According to AdAge, a pun is "the final frontier" in "tasteless" beer advertising. In a spot for Bud Light Lime leaked on the Internet, everyday folks innocently confess to getting it "in the can" (some of them like it and want to do so again!). The punch line of the spot reveals that the popular brew is now available in all-too-familiar handy aluminum containers.
Careful viewers, students of comedy and those familiar with the rigors of reader-response criticism will know that AdAge's reaction to the spot reveals more about the uptight folks there than either DDB Chicago, which created the spot, or Bud Light Lime brand managers. Far from being "tasteless," the spot never speaks its alleged naughtiness. The same certainly cannot be said for Hardee's "Name Our Holes" spot. In fact, all potential bad taste is left entirely in the viewer's mind (or seat) — and even that is reversed with the punch line of the spot. We were wrong; it isn't naughty at all.
In both implicating its viewers and absolving them at the same time, the Bud Light Lime spot does what all excellent comedy does. We know this well, having been steeped in both South Park and Sarah Silverman; our interpretations are far more worthy of scold than the jokes themselves (sometimes). Or, more bluntly: who is the greater racist? The teller of the offensive joke, or he who laughed a bit too hard at it? The same is true for this spot. The viewer, perhaps, has replaced "it" with "sex" and "in the can" with "anal." Funny, though, I personally know a Canadian viewer who thought the spot was referencing sneaking a beer "in the toilet." She did not get the spot; explaining it was a hint awkward. AdAge might note: puns are cultural material, and for that reason, they do resonate with relevance.
But enough with the close reading (so annoying to pay attention to the details!). Let's assume AdAge is right to be offended. If so, that simply makes them old. As in "not with it." As in "don't understand the guys and the gals." As in "can't really help their own readers any longer." Maybe they are bitter that the scrappy AdRants beat them to the punch, with much humor in tact, days earlier? Regardless, let's move on from the comedy of manners at AdAge and update a few views, uncomfortable as they may be for some.
According to one study, 90 per cent of 8-16 year olds have viewed pornography online (surely the numbers are even higher for those of legal beer drinking age). And, since 1992, the number of heterosexuals having anal sex has doubled, according to the Centers for Disease Control. If we can bring ourselves to it, let's suspend judgment and simply accept the facts, while also recalling that Lucy and Ricky could not be seen sleeping in the same bed. And the word "pregnant" could not be said on television either, at one point. (Yes, regrettably, the lowering of these absurd standards did all lead directly to "Rock of Love.").
Beyond facts and figures, what is the zeitgeist in which today's bright young things swim? Porn is mainstream. Period. Seth Rogen & Company brought "Superbad" to "must-see" status on the back of one porno-pun-reference after another (and a book of phalluses in extremis). Prior to that he made "Knocked Up," a title unprintable a generation ago. His follow up was "Zack and Miri Make a Porno." There's a reason he is (along with producer Judd Apatow) considered one of the most relevant and intelligent comedians of his age: he tells honest coming-of-age stories, and in so doing removes the shame most of us inherited from Plymouth Rock. One might also note that Jason Mraz, who recently made chart history with a 71-week run at the top, also has the cultural cool and currency to ironically sing that "Nintendo be givin' me the blister / Bend over take it in the keister."
What might have been "tasteless" even a decade ago, and surely beyond mention just a generation past, is now part of daily life. Far from shocking, it is entertaining. The guys and gals: they love this stuff. The 22-year-olds buying beer: they love this stuff. It's not tasteless for them; it's a nudge and a wink and a giggle. Their own voices and senses of humor have been echoed back to them. The joke lets everyone laugh (except AdAge, it seems).
For an agency (which I generally find irrelevant these days) and a large multinational to track with the times is, in many ways, remarkable. Brands are containers of culture and meaning, and that means they are as malleable as their own consumers. Good brand managers follow the cultural dialogue (and also know what is appropriate for the Net and not appropriate for TV). Trying to hold onto things, to control them, to not "go with the flow" and change with the times. Well, we call that an anal personality. Dr. Freud can handle that one with the folks at AdAge.
Full disclosure: Anheuser-Busch InBev is a client of Patrick Davis Partners, publishers of Unbound Edition.
© 2015 Davis Brand Capital. All rights reserved.


text:
Book your room at Holiday Inn Express & Suites Langley
Standard Room
Max Occupancy: 2 guests (up to 1 child)Room, 2 Queen Beds, Non Smoking
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Max Occupancy: 4 guests (up to 3 children)Family-friendly hotel with free breakfast and indoor pool
This family-friendly Langley hotel is within 3 mi (5 km) of Langley Sportsplex and Langley Event Center. Mountain View Conservation Centre and Willowbrook Shopping Centre are also within 6 mi (10 km).
Hotel Features
An indoor pool, a fitness center, and a spa tub are available at this hotel. Free buffet breakfast, free WiFi in public areas, and free self parking are also provided. Other amenities include a sauna, a business center, and dry cleaning.
Room Amenities
All 85 rooms offer free WiFi and free wired Internet, plus coffee makers and cable TV. Free newspapers, free local calls, and hair dryers are among the other amenities that guests will find.
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text:
John 2:13-22
With thanks to page sponsor:
Marilyn Ayer
- Reading the Text:
- NRSV (with link to Anglicized NRSV) at Oremus Bible Browser.
- Greek Interlinear Bible, ScrTR, ScrTR t, Strong, Parsing, CGTS, CGES id, AV.
- The Bible Gateway: NRSV, RSV, NIV, NASB, CEV, The Message, KJV, etc.
- The Blue Letter Bible. KJV, alternate versions, Greek text with concordance, commentaries.
- The World Wide Study Bible includes commentary, exposition & sermons.
- Historical References, Commentary and
Comparative Texts:
- The Five Gospels Parallels, John W. Marshall, University of Toronto.
- Comparative World Scriptures from United Communities of Spirit: War against Evil.
- "Temple and Jesus," The Jesus Database, an online annotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus. Dr. Gregory C. Jenks, FaithFutures Foundation.
- Chapter II, The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans, Ignatius of Antioch (c. 110). (Longer Version only - 4th cent interpolation)
- XXXII.1-2, 4, 6-11; Tatian's Diatessaron (c. 150-160).
- III.XVI.5, V.VI.2, Adversus Haereses, Irenaeus of Lyons. (c. 180)
- III.11, Paedagogus, Clement of Alexandria (c 200)
- Chapter XVIII, On the Resurrection of the Flesh, Tertullian (c. 211)
- Chapter XXI, Against Praxeas, Tertullian (c. 213)
- Chapter XVI, On Modesty, Tertullian (c. 217)
- II.IV.1, First Principles (De Principiis), Origen. (c.225)
- X.1-30, Commentary on the Gospel of John, Philocalia [anthology of Origen prepared by St. Basil and St. Gregory Nazianzen], Origen. (c.230)
- III.XXXII, VIII.XIX, Against Celsus, Origen. (c.246)
- From Augustine's Tractates on John:
Tractate X
- "For indeed every man twists for himself a rope by his sins: "Woe to them who draw sins as a long rope ?" Who makes a long rope ? He who adds sin to sin. How are sins added to sins ? when the sins which have been committed are covered over by other sins."
- From the
Geneva Notes.
- "Christ being ordained to purge the Church with great zeal begins his office both of Priest and Prophet."
- From
Henry's Commentary.
- "Those now make God's house a house of merchandise, whose minds are filled with cares about worldly business when attending religious exercises, or who perform Divine offices for love of gain."
- From
Wesley's Notes.
- "And the changers of money - Those who changed foreign money for that which was current at Jerusalem, for the convenience of them that came from distant countries."
- From the
Commentary on the Whole Bible
(Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, 1871).
- "There was nothing wrong in the merchandise; but to bring it, for their own and others' convenience, into that most sacred place, was a high-handed profanation which the eye of Jesus could not endure."
- From
The People's
New Testament, B.W. Johnson, 1891.
- "The great crowds who came to Jerusalem at this time could not bring victims, and the traffic in oxen, sheep, kids and doves became enormous. It would have been proper enough if it had been conducted at stockyards, but the priests made a monopoly of it and installed it right in the temple. The Court of the Gentiles, "a house of prayer for all nations" (Mark 11:15-19), was filled with cattle, ordure, and the din of traffic."
- Contemporary Commentary, Studies, and Exegesis:
- Resources specific to the Narrative Lectionary, January 19, 2014, John 2:13-25.
- Commentary, John 2:13-25, Gilberto Ruiz, Working Preacher, 2014.
- Clean Up Your Act, commentary and discussion, RevGalBlogPals, 2014.
- Cleansing the Temple, I Love to Tell the Story Podcast, Working Preacher, 2014.
- Inside Voices, Beth Scibienski, A Thousand Words of Inspiration, 2014.
- Whipped up enough to pour yourself out? Peter Woods, The Listening Hermit, 2014.
- Commentary, John 2:13-22, Marilyn Salmon,
Preaching This Week, WorkingPreacher.org, 2012.
- "Followers of Jesus confess that Jesus is King and the emperor is not. If the consequence of challenging the imperial powers is death, as it was for Jesus and many of his followers, so be it."
- "In John, then, Jesus doesn't necessarily call for the destruction of the Jerusalem temple or imply it somehow would deserve its ruin. Rather, the author tells us, Jesus metaphorically refers to himself as a temple."
- "Beyond the God Box," David Lose, Dear Working Preacher, 2012.
- "...our churches can't contain God any more than the Temple."
- "Marketplace or Holy Space?" Sharron R. Blezard, Stewardship of Life, ELCA, 2012.
- "Our call is to examine every motivation when it comes to the intersection of faith and life, where all creation is holy space."
- The Temple Demonstration, audio telling, story in episodes, graphic, audio and written commentaries. Go Tell Communications, Biblical Storytelling for the Global Village, 2012.
- The Politics of John 2:13-25, Aaron Howard, Political Theology, 2012.
- "Jesus illustrates for us that no instantiation of injustice is impervious to his power and might, and that ultimately, systems and institutions can be created anew."
- "The Significance of Signifying Signs," D Mark Davis, Left Behind and Loving It, 2012.
- "Anger in Church," Debra Dean Murphy, Ekklesia Project, 2012.
- "We live in angry times..."
- Lectionary Blogging, John Petty, Progressive Involvement, 2012.
- "That the disciples trust Jesus here is a strong point in their favor. One of the major themes of the fourth gospel is encouragement of trust."
- "One Size Fits All," Mike Stavlund, The Hardest Question, 2012.
- "An enigmatic historical account and the blame game."
- "Cleansing the Cardiac Temple," Peter Woods, I Am Listening, 2012.
- "When the heart knows, the ego will not be seduced."
- "Spring Cleaning," Alyce M. McKenzie, Edgy Exegesis, Patheos, 2012.
- "Lent is a season that creates a yearning in us to clean our house and to clean our souls."
- "Occupy Temple," Michael Coffey, 2012.
- Radical Gratitude, lectionary-based stewardship, Northwest United Methodist Foundation. (.pdf)
- "Barriers and Broken Hearts," Janet H. Hunt, Dancing with the Word, 2012.
- "Have you ever been turned away from worship?"
- "Where God Dwells," Rick Morley, 2012.
- "... if we don't understand the theological significance of the Temple as THE place where the actual Presence of God Almighty dwells among His people, then we miss the theological significance of what Jesus is saying here."
- "#Occupy Church: Jesus Threw out the Moneylenders for a Reason," Carl Gregg, Patheos, 2012.
- "How is God calling you to 'harness the power of anger in the work of love'"?
- Comentario del Evangelio, por Efraín Agosto, San Juan 2:13-22, Working Preacher, 2012.
- Commentary, John 2:13-22, Sarah Henrich, Preaching This Week, WorkingPreacher.org, 2009.
as a Sledge Hammer: Jesus 'Cleanses' the Temple,"
The Journey with Jesus: Notes to Myself, Daniel B. Clendenin, Journey with
Jesus Foundation.
- "I read the cleansing of the temple as a stark warning against any and every false sense of security. Misplaced allegiances, religious presumption, pathetic excuses, smug self-satisfaction, spiritual complacency, nationalist zeal, political idolatry, and economic greed in the name of God are only some of the tables that Jesus would overturn in his own day and in ours."
- Comments (commentary) and Clippings (technical notes for in-depth study), Chris Haslam, Anglican Diocese of Montreal.
- "Predatory Lending," Resources for Prophetic Worship, Speaking to North Carolina Justice Issues, North Carolina Council of Churches.
Thoughts on Year B Gospel Passages in the Lectionary,"
Lent 3, William Loader, Murdoch University, Uniting Church in Australia.
- "Is the community good news for the poor or is it chaplain to the rich who oppress? Mark with telling irony contrasts the widow and her poverty with the oppression of the temple authorities who exploit widows (12:38-44). Lent is also a time for the church to take a good look at itself."
- Exegetical
Notes by Brian Stoffregen, at CrossMarks.
- "QUESTION: Do we think of God more as a vending machine -- put in our sacrifices or offerings or good deeds and out comes blessings? Do we misuse our (supposed) obedience to the Ten Commandments as bargaining chips with God?"
Unhinged; the Cleansing of the Temple,"
The Journey with Jesus: Notes to Myself, Daniel B. Clendenin, Journey
with Jesus Foundation, 2009.
- "It's not clear whether Jesus objected to any and all commercial activity in the temple out of principle, even honest transactions that were necessary for pilgrims to fulfill their religious obligations, or whether he excoriated the fraud, exploitation and avarice of the religious authorities who controlled the means of ritual purity and thus access to Yahweh."
Join the Feast,
John 2:13-22, Esta Jarrett, Union PSCE,
- "As always in the Fourth Gospel, we must tread cautiously around the text?s history of anti-Semitic interpretation. Most scholars believe that this text was written by Jews, exiled from the synagogue, who believed that Jesus was the Messiah. This is insider language, borne of grief, distance and change."
- "The Dove Seller," Sarah M. Foulger, Stirred by the Light - Voices of Lent.
- "The Cleansing of the Temple," Gospel Analysis, Sermons from Seattle, Pastor Edward F. Markquart, Grace Lutheran Church, Seattle, Washington. Detailed background and exegesis.
Marginally Mark, by Brian McGowan, Anglican priest in Western
- "Have we developed similar tactics to avoid the real Jesus issues? What do we hide behind?"
- Sermon Preparation Thoughts and Questions by Wesley White, 2006.
- Wellspring of the Gospel, Lent 3B, Catherine McElhinney and Kathryn Turner, Weekly Wellsprings.
"The Cleansing of the Temple,"
Lent 3B, Larry Broding's
Word-Sunday.Com: A
Catholic Resource for This Sunday's Gospel. Adult Study, Children's
Story, Family Activity, Support Materials.
- "Is faith in God reasonable? What reasons do people have for faith? How do acts of scandal detract from faith?"
- "Destroy This Temple and I Will Rebuild It Again," Rev. Bryan Findlayson, Lectionary Bible Studies and Sermons, Pumpkin Cottage Ministry Resources. Includes detailed textual notes.
by Hall Harris at the Biblical Studies Foundation.
- "Why should one have to assume, in any case, that there could have been only one cleansing of the Temple?"
- "Jesus'
Spring House Cleaning," R. Scott Clark, in Kerux: The Online
Journal of Biblical Theology (Reformed).
- "Not only are we God's temple, but we still have a religious life in the temple. For the evangelist, to truly be in the temple is to be in Christ because he is the true temple."
- Resources specific to the Narrative Lectionary, January 19, 2014, John 2:13-25.
- Articles & Background:
Temple Incident: An Integral Element in the Fourth Gospel's Narrative,"
Mark A. Matson, Milligan College.
- "The Temple Incident in John marks the beginning of Jesus' public messianic ministry, as well as the beginning of opposition by 'the Jews,' a fundamental theme throughout the Fourth Gospel. And John's Temple Incident anticipates the Passion, thus providing an initial frame with which to interpret the entire gospel story."
- Jerusalem Temple Warning Inscription at K.C. Hanson and Douglas Oakman's excellent site Palestine in the Time of Jesus: Social Structures and Social Conflicts.
- Model of the Herodian Temple, photo at K.C. Hanson and Douglas Oakman's excellent site Palestine in the Time of Jesus: Social Structures and Social Conflicts.
Temple Incident: An Integral Element in the Fourth Gospel's Narrative,"
Mark A. Matson, Milligan College.
- Recommended articles
from ATLAS, an online collection of religion and theology journals, are
linked below.
ATLAS Access options are available for academic institutions, alumni of
selected theological schools, and clergy/church offices. Annotated list of "starting place" articles at ATLAS for this week's texts (includes direct links).
- Casey, P.M.,
"Culture and Historicity: The Cleansing of the Temple," The Catholic
Biblical Quarterly, 1997.
EBSCO ATLASerials, Religion Collection
EBSCO ATLA Religion Database with ATLASerials - Farelly, Nicolas,
"John 2:23-25: What Kind of Faith is This?" Presbyterion, 2004.
EBSCO ATLASerials, Religion Collection
EBSCO ATLA Religion Database with ATLASerials - Fredriksen, Paula,
"Jesus: The Gesture at the Temple," The Living Pulpit, 1994.
EBSCO ATLASerials, Religion Collection
EBSCO ATLA Religion Database with ATLASerials - Hays, Richard B., "Can the Gospels
Teach Us How to Read the Old Testament?" Pro Ecclesia, 2002.
(Section on this text begins on p. 412)
EBSCO ATLASerials, Religion Collection
EBSCO ATLA Religion Database with ATLASerials - Mathews, Kenneth A., "John, Jesus
and the Essenes: Trouble at the Temple," Criswell Theological Review,
EBSCO ATLASerials, Religion Collection
EBSCO ATLA Religion Database with ATLASerials - O'Day, Gail R., "Piety without
Pretense, Faith without Falsehood: The Lenten Journey according to
John," Journal for Preachers, 1997.
EBSCO ATLASerials, Religion Collection
EBSCO ATLA Religion Database with ATLASerials - Painter, John,
"Quest Stories in John 1-4," Journal for the Study of the New
Testament, 1991.
EBSCO ATLASerials, Religion Collection
EBSCO ATLA Religion Database with ATLASerials - Polhill, John B., "John 1-4: The
Revelation of True Life," Review & Expositor, 1988.
EBSCO ATLASerials, Religion Collection
EBSCO ATLA Religion Database with ATLASerials - Seeley, David, "Jesus' Temple
Act," The Catholic Biblical Quarterly, 1993.
EBSCO ATLASerials, Religion Collection
EBSCO ATLA Religion Database with ATLASerials - Wohlgemut, Joel R., "Where Does
God Dwell? A Commentary on John 2:13-22," Direction, 1993.
EBSCO ATLASerials, Religion Collection
EBSCO ATLA Religion Database with ATLASerials - Wood, William Pape, "John
2:13-22," Interpretation, 1991.
EBSCO ATLASerials, Religion Collection
EBSCO ATLA Religion Database with ATLASerials
- Casey, P.M.,
"Culture and Historicity: The Cleansing of the Temple," The Catholic
Biblical Quarterly, 1997.
- Reviews:
- Review: Ricardo López Rosas, La Señal del Templo, Jn 2, 13-22: Redefinición Cristológica de lo Sacro. Universidad Pontificia de Mexico, 2001. Review (in English) by David Brondos in SBL'S Review of Biblical Literature.
- Sermons:
- No Substitute, David T. Ball, SermonSuite.
- "Reflections from the Woodshed," the Rev. Dr. Peter L. Samuelson, Day 1, 2009.
- "The Cleansing of the Temple," Sermons from Seattle, Pastor Edward F. Markquart, Grace Lutheran Church, Seattle, Washington.
- "Far More than Bingo," the Rev. Barbara K. Lundblad, Day 1, 2003.
- "It's not About Bingo," the Rev. Barbara K. Lundblad, Day 1, 1997.
- "Housecleaning," John Jewell, 2000.
- Father Andrew M. Greeley, "Priest, Author, Sociologist," Commentary and Homily
- With Children:
- Worshiping with Children, Lent 3B, Including children in the congregation's worship, using the Revised Common Lectionary, Carolyn C. Brown, 2012.
- "John 2:13-25," Faith Formation Journeys, 2012.
- "God Has Been Watching," Mother Anne Emry, Sacred Story, 2012. Includes activities, children's church plans.
- God's House Is Special, Wesley T. Runk, SermonSuite.
- "Jesus Cleanses the Temple," Illustrating the Story (lessons, children's sermons), coloring pages, activity sheets, crafts, children's songs. MSSS Crafts.
- "Jesus Chases the Moneychangers Out of the Temple," Sunday School Lessons: Family Bible Study, art projects, music, stories, etc.
- "The Cleansing of the Temple," children's study, puzzles, coloring sheet, etc. Higher Praise Christian Center.
- Drama:
- "With a Whip in His Hand," from A Certain Jesus by Jose Ignacio and Maria Lopez Vigil. Ideal for catechetical and liturgical dramatization of today's gospel. Claretian Publications.
- "Matthew's Taxing Time," Trevor Fletcher, dramatix.
- Graphics & Bulletin Materials:
- Clip Art, John 2:19, Fr. Richard Lonsdale, Resources for Catholic Educators.
- Clip Art Images: John 2:13-25, Misioneros Del Sagrado Corazón en el Perú.
- John 2:13-25, at Cerezo Barredo's weekly gospel illustration. Liberation emphasis.
- Images for this week's readings, Pitts Theology Library Digital Image Archive.
- John 2:13-22, John 2:13-25, Liturgical Drawing, Maria d.c. Zamora, Claretian Resources, Philippines. ("Download and use these for free.")
- Clip Art: Jesus Clears the Temple, Julius Schnoor von Carolsfeld woodcuts, World Mission Collection, Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod.
- Hymns and Music:
- Hymnary.org, hymns, scores, media, information.
- Contemporary/Praise Song suggestions, Together to Celebrate, David MacGregor.
- Hymns with Scripture Allusions: John 2:19, 22. The Cyber Hymnal.
- Fine Arts Images Linked at The Text This Week's Art Index:
- Movies scenes with the following themes, listed at The Text This Week's Movie Concordance:
- Study Links Pages for parallel passages:
- Study Links and Resources for the Book of John


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Dartmouth Banning Hard Alcohol From Campus
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Investors Take the Soft Approach in Japan
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We are planning to install a stainless pro style hood above our induction cooktop. Instead of having a cabinet above I would like to install a 12" stainless soffit flue (also called a duct cover) above the hood with crown molding above that.
I wanted to use a Broan hood but notice that only a few Broans (the higher priced ones) have the soffit flue listed as an accessory. My question is can ANY pro style hood take a soffit flue or does the soffit flue have to be paired with a specific hood? |
Follow-Up Postings:
- Posted by jerzeegirl (My Page) on Mon, Sep 17, 12 at 16:54
I guess maybe I should try the appliance forum with this question. |
- Posted by live_wire_oak (My Page) on Mon, Sep 17, 12 at 17:09
I may be misunderstanding the question but, what you're looking for is a chimney hood, not an under cabinet hood. |
- Posted by jerzeegirl (My Page) on Mon, Sep 17, 12 at 20:04
Hi live wire! Here is a link to what I want. The range hood and the duct cover are two different pieces and are sold separately. I was wondering if I could buy a less expensive Broan pro hood (like this one - http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/RP130.html) and install the aforementioned duct cover above it. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Range hood and Duct cover
- Posted by GreenDesigns (My Page) on Mon, Sep 17, 12 at 22:00
Under cabiet hoods are attached to the cabinet above and are mainly supported by that cabinet. Chimney hoods have brackets that attach to the wall, so no, you can't use an undercabinet hood as a substitute for a chimney style hood. |
- Posted by jerzeegirl (My Page) on Mon, Sep 17, 12 at 22:17
Thanks green designs. Now that you have said it, it seems so obvious! |
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You're leaving Wedding Paper Divas to see the Deal of the Day at our parent site, Tiny Prints.
Please note this card has elements that are designed to look metallic, but no actual metallic ink or foil will be printed. Tip: For a luminescent look, choose Pearl White Shimmer Paper.Hanging gift tags are the perfect finishing touch for favors or wedding invitations or can also be used to capture guests' well-wishes as wishing cards. Each card comes with a pre-punched hole.


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A documentary about JR, and his participatory art project INSIDE OUT, to premiere at the Tribeca Film Festival
By Jamia on April 18, 2013The documentary INSIDE OUT: The People's Art Project will premiere at the 2013 Tribeca Film Festival in New York this Saturday, April 20, giving an
intimate look into the courageous victories and heartrending challenges involved in creating the world's largest participatory art project. In 2011, French street artist JR announced his TED Prize winning wish to connect people worldwide through a collaborative artistic action.
He launched INSIDE OUT, inspiring thousands of people — from South Dakota to Iran — to collectively transform their personal identities into public artwork. From Moscow to Tunisia, citizens have turned more than 120,000 digital portraits into bold posters covering everything from city walls to trains.
Besides shifting the way INSIDE OUT's participants and onlookers contemplate storytelling and public space,JR's big dream has inspired diverse individuals to define the soul, values and vision of their communities with a few simple tools — a camera, paper and paste.
Inside Out: The People's Art Project debuts on HBO on May 20th at 9PM ET. For a sneak peek, watch the trailer below.
Participate in an action in your community »
Check out just a few of the amazing — and stunning –images pasted in cities across the world »


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DVAM Wrap-Up- November 2011
As October comes to a close, we celebrate a successful Domestic Violence Awareness Month and Go Purple Day. Programs across the state sent pictures and stories of their DVAM efforts. Click here to see them.
Thanks to each and every one of you who helped spread family violence awareness in October and continue the work all year round! If you have pictures from your DVAM event that you would like to share with us, please send them to email@example.com.


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Hey all,
I own LotR, plus the Friends and Foes and Sauron expansions. I love the base game's difficulty and recently tried the F&F expansion. I thought the expansion made the game easier, especially the Hobbits' other special skills. I haven't had a go at the game with the Sauron expansion.
Here are my questions:
1. How do you rate the various expansions? Do they make the game harder/easier, more fun/less fun, or do they not change anything in your opinions?
2. How good is the Battlefield expansion? Since I don't own it, I'm not really sure what it adds to the game...
3. Are there combinations of expansions you prefer, or do you like them one at a time?


text: | Explaining the pyramidJanuary 2, 2009 - Kathie EvanoffWhen visiting www.mypyramid.gov, you might be a little confused about where to start. On the left side of the opening page are several links that will take you to areas that are designed to help get started on the mypyramid program. The menu planner requires sign up and registration, but there no charge to participate and you will never be asked to fill out your name, address or other personal information. To register, you will be asked to devise an ID and password for future log-ins. This is because the menu planner is strictly yours to use to design your own daily food intake. It's there if you choose to use it or if you feel you need the extra help, but isn't necessary to find out about the program itself. The next item on the list is mypyramid tracker. This link will request your ID and password and is helpful in analyzing your food and exercise program. Skip down to the fourth item on the list, My Pyramid Plan. There is no registration, ID's or passwords needed to access this page, however, nothing you put in will be saved. Even so, this is the page that will give you the breakdown on what you need to maintain a healthy lifestyle. All you will be asked is your weight, height, age and estimated daily physical activity. Once you put in this information, if you should exit this page and go back to it, you will have to input the information again. Your personal information is never saved, nor will your name or e-mail address be needed. When you fill out the information requested, it will take you to another page that tells you in ounces or servings, how many of each item you need to consume in a day of meat and beans, grains, vegetables, fruit, dairy products and healthy oils. It will also tell you how many discretionary calories you may have, which include extra fats and sugars not already included in those allowed servings. You can request this information for your current weight or your ideal weight, whichever you choose. In addition to the recommended nutritional servings of each item, you will be able to click on each item for an explanation of what exactly counts as serving sizes. For example, nuts can be counted as both meat and beans or healthy fats and in some cases, should count toward both. The Web site will help you make these definitions by clicking on the link, Inside the Pyramid. Once registered; however, with an ID and password, you can go to the link, My Pyramid Planner. By signing on to this page, you will have a tool available to you that will enable the Web site to do all of your calculations. By searching for the food and choosing your serving sizes on the left of the page, a graph will appear on the right for your daily choices. The graph will calculate all of the servings you require to maintain a healthy weight. By using this graph throughout the day, you can determine how to spread your food allowances throughout the day over three meals and a snack. The Web site will do all the calculations for you and you won't need to carry around extra journals, books and calculators as long as you have computer access. It's as easy as pie, as long as you don't eat the pie. And it will help you keep those New Year resolutions. Article CommentsNo comments posted for this article. Post a Comment | Blog PhotosBreakfast: 2 ounces grains; 3/4 cup fruit; 1/2 cup milk; 30 discretionary calories Blog Links |


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Wed, Jul 3, 13 at 23:38
I have an isolated wild plum (Prunus americana) that bears no fruit. I'm planning on adding two more Plum trees near it this fall & looking for advice as to species. I try to stick to natives but would like to produce a decent & tasty harvest, as well. Are the hybrids significantly better for fresh eating than P. americana? I've heard wild Plums are good pollinators for Japanese hybrid plums. Could do two more wild Plums, or give hybrids a try. Not sure what the best approach would be, I appreciate any suggestions... |
Follow-Up Postings:
- Posted by canadianplant (My Page) on Thu, Jul 4, 13 at 8:03
Wild plims are concidered the best pollinators for hybrid plums hands down. HYbrid plus are said to have better taste then wild but ive also read some people having a good wild plum fruit as well. If you have the space, why not another wild plum and a few hybrids? |
- Posted by franktank232 z5 WI (My Page) on Thu, Jul 4, 13 at 10:01
I've tried some wild plums before, they were sweet with very astringent skin...also very small. Excellent pollinators. I think one reason i get such heavy fruit set on my hybrid plums is that there are large thickets of wild plums near my home. Hybrid plums are more like Japanese plums. Large and juicy. Some have very good flavor. |
Wild plums can be good. They are as mentioned very small. If they are growing wild, I would leave them. If I was buying and then planting the tree, I would stick to the domesticated varieties. |
- Posted by chris_7oaks 5 (My Page) on Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 15:09
Thank you for your replies. Can anyone suggest any hybrids they've had success growing (& eating)? Hoping to plant 1 or 2 hybrids and another P. americana this fall. Thanks! |
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- Login to add to Recipe Box
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Total Time: 1.5
Yield: about 5 32-ounce jars
"Filetti" are fillets, or thin slices. Like passata, this recipe is a great starting point for sauces, soups, and stews. Make it with as many ripe plum tomatoes as you have, but it makes sense to start with at least 10 pounds.
- 10 pounds ripe plum tomatoes
- 1 cup fresh basil leaves, plus 2 to 3 extra leaves for each jar of sauce
- 1/4 cup kosher or sea salt
Wash the tomatoes. Cut them lengthwise into quarters and squeeze out seeds and juice. Layer as many tomatoes as possible into sanitized 32-ounce (or smaller if you prefer) canning jars. (Place a basil leaf and a sprinkle of salt every fourth layer or so.) Seal well and process in boiling water 40 minutes.For details on processing preserved foods, visit: uga.edu/nchfp
Updated Thursday, May 27th, 2010
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You can view online demo here
Mini Web Site - Customer View
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When you signup for an account, we will create a website for you at http://XYZ.checkAppointments.com where XYZ is the name of the web handle that you can select. Click here >
Administrative Application
Login here with user id of demo and password of demo.
You will be able to manage customers, review and setup appointments from here.


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Notre Dame linebacker Manti Te'o up against two QBs for Heisman
BY MARK LAZERUS email@example.com December 3, 2012 11:05PM
Wake Forest v Notre Dame
Article Extras
Updated: January 5, 2013 6:22AM
The idea of a linebacker winning the Heisman Trophy was so far-fetched, so unfathomable, that it didn't even seem feasible in a video game. So Manti Te'o — an inside linebacker since his Pop Warner days — used to make himself a running back just so he'd have a shot at a fictional Heisman.
Well, Te'o moved one step closer to the real thing Monday when he was named one of just three finalists for college football's most coveted individual honor. Te'o — who is on a six-city awards tour this week, beginning Monday, when he was named the winner of both the Butkus Award (top linebacker) and Nagurski Award (top defensive player) — will be in New York for Saturday's ceremony in Times Square.
He will be joined on stage by Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel and Kansas State quarterback Collin Klein.
No strictly defensive player ever has won the Heisman. (Michigan cornerback Charles Woodson won in 1997, but he returned punts and played wide receiver as well.) In order to become the first, Te'o will have to overcome the front-runner, Manziel, the redshirt freshman phenom better known as Johnny Football.
Manziel, who's also trying to make history as the first freshman to win the Heisman, rocketed into the national conversation when the Aggies upset then-No. 1 Alabama three weeks ago, but he put up gaudy numbers all year long. The dual-threat QB has thrown for 3,419 yards and 24 touchdowns (against eight interceptions) and has run for 1,181 yards and 19 touchdowns. He broke Cam Newton's Southeastern Conference record for total yards in a season.
Te'o is tied for second in the nation in interceptions with seven — the only linebacker with more than four — and is the undisputed leader of the nation's top scoring defense. He led two memorable goal-line stands that helped the Irish stave off Stanford and USC.
Manziel is the favorite, but it's not as clear-cut a race as it has been in recent years. Irish coach Brian Kelly has been stumping hard for Te'o, pointing out that the best and most important player on the No. 1 team in the country deserves it most.
''If a guy like Manti Te'o is not going to win the Heisman, they should just make it an offensive award and just give it to the offensive player every year and just cut to the chase,'' Kelly said after Notre Dame's victory over USC in the season finale, which put the Irish in the BCS championship game against Alabama. ''He is the backbone of a 12-0 football team that has proven itself each and every week. . . . If the Heisman Trophy is what it is, I don't know how Manti Te'o is left out of that conversation.''


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This induction was initiated by Rayburn's family, in honor of his 80th birthday. The event was held in Cross Chapel at 11 a.m, followed by a luncheon at North Cleveland Church of God's Bryant Fellowship Hall.
Billy and Norma Rayburn began attending the Church of God in Battle Creek, Mich., after they married. Here Rayburn became an active layman and served as YPE director.
Rayburn served the Church of God in a variety of ministries over the years, including pastor. He pastored London, Ontario, 1956-1960; Plymouth, Mich., 1960-1962; Palmer Park in Detroit, 1962-1967; and Ecorse, Mich., 1967-1974.
His Church of God appointed positions include secretary and treasurer of Eastern Canada, 1956-1960; state overseer of Alaska, 1974-1978; state overseer of Chicago Metro, 1978-1982; cross cultural director, 1982-1986; and state overseer of Michigan, 1986-1990.
During the period of time when he served as state overseer of Chicago Metro, he made the connection with the Romanian church in the United States.
Subsequently he was appointed director of Cross Cultural Ministries and Romanian territorial overseer, an appointment he maintained until his retirement in 2000.
Because of his significant ministry to and relationship with the Romanian Church of God churches, he endeared himself to the Romanian people and greatly impacted the ministries of the Church of God churches.
He has served as camp meeting, prayer conference and seminar speaker across the U.S., Canada, and internationally.
Rayburn married Joyce Lane in 1999 after the death of his first wife, Norma. Bill and Norma were blessed with four children. He was also blessed with two stepchildren, 10 grandchildren, three stepgrandchildren, and eight great-grandchildren.
Love and kindness were a recurring theme among the luncheon guests who offered tribute on May 30.
Stepson Tony Lane said of Rayburn, "His love for people groups, particularly the Romanian community, represented in the United States, has embraced and propelled many in ministry in the Church of God. This endowment will permit others to follow in his footsteps and legacy as we continue to enlarge our borders in the harvest."
Induction into the Hall of Prophets at the Pentecostal Theological Seminary is reserved for those certified ministers whose service to Jesus Christ and the Church of God has been meritorious.
For more information regarding this endowment, contact Joy Terpstra at 423-478-7020 or e-mail firstname.lastname@example.com.


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All Taxa Biodiversity Inventory (ATBI) Database
All Taxa Biodiversity Inventory (ATBI) Database
Welcome to the ATBI Database Access Page!
The ATBI Database records are drawn from the current repository of ATBI data. This database will be updated periodically as additional data becomes available from scientists conducting research in the Park. It is open to students, teachers, researchers, and the general public. The following is our official cautionary statement concerning the use of this data. Please read to be advised.
Notice to ATBI Data Users: We encourage the use of data produced in the ATBI for scientific, conservation stewardship and educational uses. However, there are several data content issues that need to be understood.
- Since we are in the process of getting a backlog of data checked and appended to the database, the pool of data there, of "all taxa," should be considered a work-in-progress, and not taken as the final indicator of the Park's biodiversity.
- There is a backlog in quality checking and entry of older data, to go into the database. DLIA and the park are reducing that backlog as quickly as we can. Additionally, we are transitioning to a Microsoft SQL Server based database management system from our original Microsoft Access based database management system. Our Access system presently has a much smaller capacity and is now pushing the limits of its effectiveness and querying time. This transition to a higher capacity system will occur in 2010, and so we have postponed access to some datasets until that transition is complete.
- The ATBI database is actually a compilation of more than 50 project datasets. If you are working with data from a specific project, you should acknowledge the project and project leader in any report or article that you publish, along with the citation of Discover Life in America, Inc. and Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
- The ATBI database is organized by projects. This divides the data up in such a way as to keep all data gathered by individual research projects using one set of consistant methods and sampling equipment to obtain their specimens and/or observations. Many of these projects are multi-year projects, but most of them are based on research inventories of well-defined groups of taxa (eg. the ATBI Water Mites project). Click here to see a complete listing of all projects with their metadata basically consisting of project descriptions and protocols.
- FYI: you may here the "ATBI Database" refered to as the "Biodiversity Database." This is from an effort to broaden the use of this database to be an umbrella data repository of all park biological data, and to upgrade its capacity by moving it from MS Access to MS SQL Server.
For further
information contact: firstname.lastname@example.com
Click here to open the ATBI Database
ATBI Database distribution points for the Dark-eyed Junco.
Each point represents a geo-spatially referenced point in the database.
- Sensitive locations and species are not included in the database. Please contact Becky Nichols at email@example.com for permission to view sensitive data.
- Please be aware of the following known deficiencies, which are in the process of correction:
- The current phenology chart structure was originally designed for animal taxa. When displayed for plant taxa, they may be less appropriate.
- The base maps do not include the Foothills Parkway, Purchase Knob, and Happy Valley areas although data points may be shown for these areas. The points that fall within these areas may appear to be outside of the Park, but are accurate locations
- Specimen data points load slowly, particularly if they are numerous, so please be patient.
- Data points may not map properly using browsing engines other than Internet Explorer.
- Please contact Chuck Cooper at firstname.lastname@example.com with and comments about the database.
- Please cite the ATBI Database as:
- Discover Life in America - All Taxa Biodiversity Inventory. 2008. The ATBI Database. http://tremont22.campus.utk.edu/ATBI_start.cfm, Discover Life in America, Gatlinburg, Tennessee 37738.