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2012 Subaru Outback Review and Prices
Price: $24,070 - $32,470
Table of Contents
Past and Future Reviews
Also Consider
Related Articles
2012 Subaru Outback Buying Advice
The 2012 Subaru Outback is the best car for you if your idea of a midsize crossover SUV includes one with space and capabilities you'll actually use.
The 2012 Subaru Outback gets standard Bluetooth connectivity as part of a general audio upgrade but otherwise carries over little-changed from model-year 2011. This remarkably roomy five-passenger wagon continues with standard all-wheel drive and a choice of four- or six-cylinder engines. Outback isn't designed for serious off-roading but it can acquaint you with the wilderness and won't be daunted by deep snow. Last redesigned for model-year 2010, Outback is Subaru's most popular vehicle. The 2012 Subaru Legacy is essentially a sedan version with lower ride height and an available turbocharged four-cylinder engine.
Should you buy a 2012 Subaru Outback or wait for the 2013 Subaru Outback? Sign on the dotted line for a 2012 Outback. The 2013 Outback isn't likely to be changed enough to compel you to wait. It'll look older more quickly than a 2012 model because Outback is due for a model-year 2014 facelift. And it'll cost more thanks to the inevitable model-year-changeover price boost.
2012 Subaru Outback Changes back to top
Styling: The 2012 Subaru Outback's styling is unchanged. It retains the basic pumped-up wagon look it adopted with its successful model-year 2010 redesign. That was an evolution of the original Outback, which qualified as a pioneering crossover sport-utility vehicle when it bowed in 1995 as a ground-clearance-enhanced station-wagon version of Subaru's Legacy sedan. The basic formula remains intact in today's fourth-generation Outback, though its junior-SUV look has thankfully been toned down over the years.
Black-out treatments in the lower front and rear fascias and along the sides lend the 2012 Outback a more rugged appearance than the Legacy. The Outback also sits about four and a half inches taller and is nearly two inches longer than the sedan. Overall, it's about the same size as the similarly wagon-ish 2012 Toyota Venza crossover, though the 2012 Honda Accord Crosstour is about 8.5 inches longer overall.
Ground clearance of 8.7 inches is a bonus. That's nearly three inches more than the Legacy sedan and nearly an inch more than the Venza or Crosstour. In fact, Outback's 8.7 inches is more than some more overtly SUV-like crossovers (the Honda Pilot, for example, has 8.0 inches) and rivals that of some bona fide off-road oriented SUVs, such as the Toyota 4Runner, which has 9-9.6 inches.
The 2012 Subaru Outback also shares its basic interior design with the Legacy sedan, so it's comfortable and nicely finished with high quality materials. The winged motif of the grille and headlamps is mirrored in the attractively styled dashboard, which has conventional round gauges and a straightforward assortment of buttons and dials on the center stack of controls. When fitted with the available navigation system, a color LCD touchscreen display is located at the top center of the dash.
Outback's cabin is impressively spacious, with plenty of headroom and 37.8 inches of rear-seat legroom, a measure that puts it in league with the Accord Crosstour and only an inch or so behind the Venza and the 2012 Chevrolet Equinox and 2012 Ford Edge, all of which have notably longer wheelbases. Wheelbase is the distance between the front and rear axles and key to how much interior volume a vehicle can provide.
Indeed, Outback gets the most of its comparatively brief wheelbase. Cargo volume, for example, is competitive with anything in the class, exceeding that of the crossovers mentioned above, as well as that of the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Nissan Murano. The 2012 Outback provides 34.3 cubic feet behind the rear seats and can expand to 71.3 cubic feet with the 60/40-split seatbacks folded flat; the rear seatbacks also recline for added passenger comfort. This five-seater boasts no less than eight cupholders.
The 2012 Outback continues with six models, three for each engine offered. Four-cylinder versions are designated 2.5i, 2.5i Premium, and 2.5i Limited models. Six-cylinder Outbacks are designated 3.6R, 3.6R Premium, and 3.6R Limited models.
Visual distinctions between the models are not extensive. The 2.5i model has 16 inches steel wheels with wheel covers, while all other 2012 Outback models have 17-inch alloys, body-colored side mirrors, rear privacy glass, and fog lights. Inside, Limited versions have leather upholstery and woodgrain cabin trim, while other Outback models feature cloth seats and silver "etched" accent trim.
Mechanical: With no changes under the hood, the 2012 Subaru Outback 2.5i, 2.5i Premium, and 2.5i Limited versions continue with a 2.5-liter four-cylinder engine that generates 170 horsepower and 170 pound-feet of torque. (Think of torque as the force behind acceleration and horsepower the energy that sustains thrust.) The 2012 Subaru Outback 3.6R, 3.6R Premium, and 3.6R Limited versions return with a 3.6-liter six-cylinder engine with 256 horsepower and 247 pound-feet of torque.
A six-speed manual transmission is standard on 2.5i and 2.5i Premium models. Optional on those models and standard on the Outback 2.5i Limited is Subaru's Lineartronic continuously variable transmission (CVT).
A CVT does the work of a conventional automatic transmission but eschews a set number of gears for a belt working variable-width pulleys. The intent is the most efficient balance of engine output, acceleration, and fuel economy. A CVT delivers power more or less seamlessly, though the lack of shift points takes getting used to. While there are no physical gears, Subaru's CVT nonetheless has a "manual mode" and includes steering wheel-mounted paddles that allow the driver to replicate manual-type gear control.
All 2012 Outback 3.6R models come with a conventional five-speed automatic transmission that also includes a manual mode via paddle shifters.
In Subaru tradition, both engines in the 2012 Outback are of a flat or "boxer" design, so named because the cylinder banks are in horizontal opposition instead of aligned vertically or in a V, as with most engine designs. The cylinders move horizontally, "punching" outward like a boxer in the ring.
Only Porsche among other volume carmakers embraces this type of engine design, primarily because it helps maintain a low center of gravity to the benefit of handling. Combined with a well-sorted suspension, the boxer design helps keep the 2012 Outback among the very best midsize crossovers for ride control and handling security.
Along with its enhanced ground clearance and wagon-worthy hauling ability, the Outback gets a heavier-duty version of the Legacy sedan's all-independent suspension. And like every Subaru, it comes standard with all-wheel drive (AWD).
Subaru actually offers three separate AWD systems on the Outback. Two slightly different AWD setups are offered with the 2.5-liter engine, the operation of each tailored to suit manual transmission or the CVT. Basically, the one used with manual transmission locks into a 50/50 front/rear torque split upon wheel slip while the one used with the CVT reapportions the split constantly. The 2012 Outback 3.6R models feature a more sophisticated version that normally splits engine power 45/55 to maintain a slightly sportier rear-drive feel, then reapportions constantly if traction is compromised.
Features: The 2012 Subaru Outback comes nicely equipped even in base 2.5i and 3.6R versions, with the Premium and Limited trim levels of both series adding convenience features at progressively higher prices.
Every 2012 Outback features Subaru's Vehicle Dynamics Control antiskid system to help keep all four wheels planted during extreme or emergency handling maneuvers (stability control is now required in all vehicles by federal safety regulations). Traction control to help the car get going on wet or snowy surfaces at lower speeds also is standard. Passive safety features include torso-protecting front side airbags and head-protecting side curtain airbags for all outboard positions.
Other standard features include air conditioning, power locks and windows, keyless entry, cruise control, a tilt/telescoping steering wheel, a CD audio system with an auxiliary input jack, and alloy wheels.
New for model-year 2012 is an updated standard audio system with Bluetooth hands-free linking to mobile phones and MP3 music streaming; steering-wheel control buttons are included. Bluetooth was previously standard only on Outback Limiteds; it was unavailable on base 2.5i and 2.6R models and required an extra-cost option package on 2.5i Premium and 3.6R Premium versions.
For model-year 2012, Subaru adds a new screen display and iTunes song tagging to Outback's available 440-watt, nine-speaker harmon/kardon premium audio system. The system is optional on the Premium models and standard on Limiteds and includes a CD changer and XM satellite radio.
To base 2.5i and 3.6R models, the 2012 Outback Premium versions again add such amenities as a power driver's seat, cargo cover, fog lights, a leather-wrapped steering wheel, and rear privacy glass. Top-of-the-line Limited versions come standard with a host of features, many of which are optional on the Premium models. These include heated front seats and side mirrors, windshield wiper de-icers, power passenger's seat, automatic climate control, plus the leather upholstery and woodgrain dashboard trim.
Optional on all Outback Premium and Limited models is a power moonroof that comes bundled with an automatic-dimming rearview mirror that includes a 3.3-inch insert that displays the view from a rear-backup camera. Subaru continues to confine the Outback's navigation system option to 2012 Limited models. It responds to voice commands and uses an 8-inch dashboard screen and rearview camera.
2012 Subaru Outback Prices back to top
Base-price range for the 2012 Subaru Outback is $24,070-$32,470. Those prices are competitive with those of AWD versions of other midsize crossover SUVs with four- and six-cylinder engines. (Base prices in this review include the manufacturer's destination fee; Subaru's fee for the 2012 Outback is $775.)
The 2012 Outback 2.5i starts at $24,070 with the six-speed manual transmission and at $25,070 with the CVT.
The 2012 Outback 2.5i Premium model is priced from $25,570 with the manual transmission and from $26,570 with the CVT. The 2012 Outback 2.5i Limited model, which comes only with the CVT, starts at $29,470.
The 2012 Outbacks with six-cylinder engine and five-speed automatic transmission begins with the 3.6R model at $29,070. The 3.6R Premium starts at $30,270 and the 3.6R Limited at $32,470.
Among popular 2012 Subaru Outback amenities is the All-Weather Package that's a $500 option on 2.5i Premium models (it's standard on 3.6R Premium models and on all Limited versions). It includes heated front seats, heated side mirrors, and windshield wiper de-icers. It's priced at $1,945 bundled with the power moonroof/backup camera, $1,795 with the harmon/kardon stereo, and $3,240 packaged with both.
On 2012 Outback Limited versions, the moonroof/backup camera package costs $1,445, with an option group that bundles the moonroof and navigation system/backup camera going for $2,995.
2012 Subaru Outback Fuel Economy back to top
EPA fuel economy ratings for the 2012 Subaru Outback are unchanged from model-year 2011 and keep this crossover in line with some of its most fuel-efficient SUVs in its competitive set.
With the 2.5-liter four-cylinder engine, 2012 Outback 2.5i models rate 19/27 mpg city/highway and 22 mpg city/highway combined with manual transmission and 22/29/24 mpg with the CVT.
The six-cylinder Outback 3.6R models are rated at 18/25/20 mpg. That rating in particular is testament to Outback's sound engineering since the 3.6R model achieve it with a five-speed automatic transmission. Most rivals employ a more efficient six-speed automatic transmission.
2012 Subaru Outback Release Date back to top
The 2012 Subaru Outback went on sale in September 2011.
What's next for the 2012 Subaru Outback back to top
Along with the Subaru Legacy, the Outback should receive a midcycle update for model-year 2014. This would not be a full redesign but likely include minor styling tweaks to nose and tail, a few new interior touches, and perhaps some added features. Expect the next fully redesigned Outback for model-year 2016.
With that fifth-generation, don't expect Subaru to venture far from the 2010-2015 Outback's successful formula. The next Outback will likely remain similar in size, shape, and function. It will be recast with increased fuel economy in mind, particularly with a 40 percent boost in the federally mandated corporate average fuel economy requirement phasing in between the 2012 and 2016 model years.
Expect the redesigned 2016 Outback to be constructed with weight savings in mind, since weight directly influences fuel economy. Anticipate a more efficient engine lineup, too, with a direct-injected turbocharged four-cylinder likely replacing the six-cylinder engine in top-line models. Replacing the 2.5-liter four-cylinder as the base engine will probably be a modified version of Subaru's new 2.0-liter four-cylinder that debuted in the 2012 Impreza compact car. Manual and automatic transmissions will be in the mix, but probably with at least six speeds. A CVT also could survive.
A gas-electric hybrid version of the next-generation Outback also is possible, with technology sourced from Subaru minority shareholder Toyota. Perhaps even a plug-in version will join the line at some point.
As is the case with most other midsize crossovers, the next-generation Outback will play catch-up in terms of infotainment and driver-aid technology. Expect lane-departure and blind-spot warning systems, for example, plus a rear-seat entertainment system and more complex interfacing with mobile technology.
2012 Subaru Outback Competition back to top
Chevrolet Equinox: One of the major success stories for Chevy in recent years, this attractively styled five-passenger crossover shines for refined road manners, fuel economy, and competitiv3e pricing. With the optional AWD, the standard 182-horsepower four-cylinder engine is rated 22/29 mpg city/highway, 23 combined and the available 264-horsepower V-6 is rated 16/23/19. A smooth-shifting six-speed automatic transmission is standard across the line. Features include a rear seat that adjusts fore and aft to maximize legroom or cargo space. New for 2012 is Chevrolet's voice-activated MyLink infotainment system that's similar to Ford's Sync technology. Exclusive to the top-line LTZ model is GM's Forward Collision Alert and Lane Departure Warning system; it can warn if the Equinox is inadvertently wandering across lane markers or if a crash is imminent. The 2012 Equinox base-price range is $24,260-$33,200. Expect a freshening for model-year 2013 with a hybrid version possible for 2014. The 2012 GMC Terrain is essentially an Equinox with more truckish styling.
Ford Edge: The 2012 edition of this five-passenger crossover SUV adds Ford's EcoBoost 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder to its engine lineup. It generates a V6-style 240 horsepower yet rates a four-cylinder-like 21/30/24 mpg. On the downside, the EcoBoost four is available only with front-wheel drive. Available with both front- and all-wheel drive is a 285 horsepower V-6, with a 305-horsepower V-6 standard in the Edge Sport model. Edge isn't as nimble as the Outback, and it feels bigger and heavier on the road than it looks. The interior could be more accommodating for taller drivers and front-seat passengers. Gadget-loving buyers will find no shortage of high-tech features from which to choose, including the controversial MyFord Touch operating system that eschews most gauges and switches for configurable touch-screen LCD displays. It's complicated to master, but fortunately it's not included on all versions. Next big revision for the Edge isn't likely until the 2014 or 2015 model year. The 2012 Edge base-price range is $28,465-$39,650.
Toyota Venza: As the Outback is essentially a crossover version of the Legacy sedan, the Venza is a wagon version of the Toyota Camry sedan – though the 2012 Venza is built on the 2007-2011 Camry platform. Venza was introduced for model-year 2009 and won't transition to the current-generation Camry structure until at least model-year 2015. That's of little consequence in practical terms. Venza remains a roomy and comfortable five-seater, though Toyota sacrifices some ride comfort for the sake of styling by equipping four-cylinder Venzas with 19-inch wheels and tires and V-6 versions with 20s. Both engines are available with front-wheel drive or optional AWD. The four-cylinder has 182 horsepower and rates 20/25/22 mpg with AWD. The V-6 has 268 and rates 18/25/21 with AWD. A six-speed automatic is Venza's only transmission. A long list of features includes an optional high beam system that senses oncoming traffic and automatically adjusts the headlamps' intensity. Expect a 2012 base-price range of roughly $28,200-$32,200.


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Only recently we looked at the HD 5870 Turbo from HIS which did a good job of impressing us. Today we're moving slightly down the ladder to the HD 5850 which has become one of the best valued video cards on the market today.
This one from HIS again sits in the Turbo series and is the first retail card to get reviewed on our new testbed with all of our new benchmarks. After just coming off some coverage of the GTX 470, we did mention a few times that due to price of the GTX 470, it really goes against an overclocked HD 5850 when it comes to comparing the two models head to head due to being in the same price bracket.
So, not only today will we be able to see how the first retail card goes through our new benchmark line-up, but we'll also see how the GTX 470 goes against an overclocked HD 5850.
Before we get into that fun stuff, though, let's have a quick look at the package, the card and the specifications that the Turbo model carries. Once that's done we'll get into the benchmarks and check out the performance of the model.


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Dear Editor:
Without question the Bloomberg administration has initiated a plan to put a 125-family shelter for homeless families in the wrong place. The secret owners of Samaritan Village have already signed a contract with the present owner of 78-16 Cooper Ave. and the Bloomberg Economic Development Corporation is moving the project along — despite the fact that the premises and the location are an absurdity to any prudent person. Of course, the address is not fixed in everyone's mind, but it is the address of the old Hansel and Gretel "Baloney Factory."
Here again we have Bloomberg's people using taxpayers' money to pay a greedy person far more than the property is worth and then burdening the taxpayer with a huge rehabilitation cost. Clearly, 125 homeless families equates to 400 children who are being forced to live and play in an unsafe place where no working family would choose to live. Frankly, it is all about the money and not about the lost children — children who in most cases do not have the comfort and support of a "Dad."
Yes, on Friday, Aug. 30, 2013 Councilman Peter Vallone Jr., a candidate for Queens borough president, had a rally at the site of the old "Baloney Factory" to call greater attention to this misuse of the taxpayers' money and the need to involve the community in planning public projects before any plans are initiated.
Incidentally, since Vallone is a Democrat, I had expected to see the Democratic councilwoman for the neighborhood at his side echoing the rally cry to stop this waste of the taxpayers' money. Where was Elizabeth Crowley? Oh, I forgot, Peter is not the "party's pick." Here again it's all about politics — not about the welfare and future of the children.


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See other Los Angeles properties
The Venice Beach Hostel
Real Reviews
Real reviews from fellow travellers
These are trusted reviews from guests who have actually stayed here. We hope you find them helpful.
Note: we only give a property a rating once it has received a minimum of 3 reviews.
- Page:1/1
- " I've never stay in a hostel worse than the poorly maintained it's dirty, I ask if they come to pick me at the airport as was indicated on their website they said they had no one to pick me !The breakfast start at 9Amhas finished at 10am only ONE hour !! they make you pay $ 2 per towel !the owner is liar! he moved me to another house for no reason so all the mornings I walk to the central home for the breakfast So 15 minutes walk everyday the people work there ask you cigarettes everyday "
- 20 Jan 2015 karim
- " I stayed here for a week at the beginning of January. Ian the owner and Sandra, a lovely girl that worked there were super friendly and helpful. They helped me organise my trip and offered to run some errands for me. Staying at this hostel you feel part of the family with really cozy communal rooms to meet other travellers. Breakfast was exactly how it should be at the price. Rooms were perfectly clean and comfortable. Location is perfect, 15min walk to venice beach & 5 min to supermarket. "
- 11 Jan 2015 Suki England
- " This is a very homey hostel, i like the atmosphere. Staff are very nice as well. "
- 23 Dec 2014 Anonymous Egypt
- " Hostel wouldn't let me stay more than one night because I'm American which is BS. I am an international traveler. I just came from overseas. Staff (Colombian woman) was rather weird and accused me of smoking on the premises. Which was false. Close to beach. "
- 11 Nov 2014 Anonymous USA
- " At first I thought Venice Beach Hostel was a bit shady because they aren't up front with you about where it's actually located (you get an email after booking that asks you to check in at a different address, which is the actual location), but after arriving I felt more comfortable with the stay. I liked the hostel's at home feel, laid-back atmosphere, and sense of privacy. The staff are friendly and knowledgeable about local going-ons and things to do. "
- 07 Nov 2014 Meghan USA
- " Great little wee secret run by awesome staff. "
- 11 Sep 2014 Daniel New Zealand
- " I had an amazing time staying here! Ian and the rest of the staff were informative and friendly. A very relaxed environment. The beds are simple but adequate. It's clean and the facilities are all any traveller needs. Venice beach is a 20min walk away, but in the lovely LA sun is totally worth it. Transport links are close by. I had an awesome time here and recommended it to some fellow travellers who also loved it. I'll definitely stay here again when i'm back in LA! "
- 25 Aug 2014 Daniel England
- " Had so much fun here, always something to do in venice beach. Awesome people awesome vibes at our hostel. It was cleaned every day and sheets were changed often. Just a short walk to all of the action or there's a bus stop right across the street. I would recommend this to any young traveller looking to meet new people! "
- 12 Aug 2014 Laura Canada
" This hostel is pretty far from the beach; you have to check-in at a different place than stay (we stayed in a private room); the storage of the lagguage will cost you $5 after 1pm. Room wasn't cleaned during our 4 day stay. "
We do not clean private rooms during guests stay unless requested, dormitory rooms are cleaned daily.
- 06 Aug 2014 Anonymous Russia


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Montepulciano, Italy Language Schools - Learn Italian in Montepulciano, Tuscany, the country of art and wine. The Italian Language school Il Sasso is recognized by the Ministry of Education and ISO certified. Since 30 years it offers courses in Italian language, culture, art & cooking.
Genoa, Italy Language Schools - inlingua Genova is a small, friendly language college in the heart of the medeival city center. We offer courses in Italian and a variety of other languages as well as social activities and more. All ages and levels welcome.
Genoa, Italy Language Schools - Scuola Tricolore is specialised Italian language school located in Genoa.Besides the languages courses, Scuola Tricolore offers many additional activities as well as accommodation. Studying at the school is about studying Italian with lots of fun.
Genoa, Italy Language Schools - We offer short/long terms programs, Italian and Cooking/Diving/Sailing, CELI CILS certifications, many free time proposals. Skilled teachers, a professional staff and a comfortable and well furnished school. The right choice to spend a study holiday!
siena, Italy Language Schools - societa dante alighieri in siena has a prestigious reputation . It welcomes students of all ages and nationalities that can attend courses of italian language art, culture or gastronomy . rich program of activities and accommodation service,
Tropea, Italy Language Schools - The Italian language school by the sea is officially recognised by the Italian Ministry of Education, University and Research and offers an accredited course program with a max. of 3-6 students per course unit. Perfect to combine work with pleasure.


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Susan G. Komen for the Cure
Susan G. Komen fought breast cancer with her heart, body and soul. Throughout her diagnosis, treatments, and endless days in the hospital, she spent her time thinking of ways to make life better for other women battling breast cancer instead of worrying about her own situation. Moved by Susan's compassion for others and committed to making a difference, Nancy G. Brinker promised her sister that she would do everything in her power to end breast cancer forever.
That promise is now Susan G. Komen for the Cure®, the global leader of the breast cancer movement, having invested nearly $1.5 billion since inception in 1982.
Save the date for October 9, 2010, in Brentwood Tennessee, Mix 92.9 will be partnering with Susan G. Komen for the annual Race for the Cure!


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Reviewed By J A S (Hiawassee, GA) Reviewed for a 2009 Mini Cooper —1/25/2013 4:09 AM
the new bulbs greatly improved both the low and high beams for my Mini Clubman. Better light and more distance.
Reviewed By Wendell R (Beach City, TX) Reviewed for a 2011 Jeep Wrangler —11/9/2014 5:00 PM
These lights are used as fog lights but are bright enough to be used as driving lights. Lights were easy to install but the wiring harness provided was barely long enough to mount the lights on the door column. Once installed everything looks and works great.
Reviewed By Philip D (Jerome, ID) Reviewed for a 2004 Ford F-350 —8/28/2014 2:58 PM
I'm not looking to blind other drivers. However, I am looking to see in adverse weather so I bought the amber light in a black housing. I wired them to work independent of my headlights, the way they should be wired. In comparison to a white light, I see further in the fog. And only when I need them, I flip the rocker switch mounted on the dash for long distance vision with my headlights on dim. I get no complaints from oncoming traffic. Several people have complemented on there looks.


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"This was very tasty. My husband inhaled it within 2 days."
"Digging out the seeds and roasting them was the best time of the event, however, they didn't much care to eat them, that is... my kids. I on the other hand quite enjoyed them."
"We really enjoyed this recipe. I did use fresh pumkin from Halloween, which meant, I reduced the salad oil to 3/4 cup, 1 2/3 cup of sugar, and I also added more spice along side of the cinnamon - 1/2 tsp of allspice and nutmeg. The kids really enjoyed without the icing. Thanks"
"This recipe is absolutely wonderful and very easy to make and it freezes well. You could easly serve a group of 8 -10 people. I added rolled oats for the topping. My family likes it warm or cold. A great snack for little munchkins! Thanks"
"Great recipe. I did make a couple of changes. I had lean ground beef with taco seasoning for the bottom layer and I used cajan seasoning with the sour cream and mayo (both light). I also used my own recipe for the guacamole which I will be posting soon. Thanks, it was a hit with the adults at my 3 years b-day party!"
"One of the simplest recipes I have ever made for a cheese cake. It is yummmmmmy! Thanks"
"I didn't have any kiwis, so I used a large mango that was about to go bad. It turned out quite nice, although my husband found that the lemon was over powering. I would suggest maybe 3-3.5tbsp of the lemon juice instead of 5. I also found that in the freeze above my fridge, the gelato did not harden until the next day. Other wise very easy to ..."


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Dear McDonald's:
This is a hard letter for me to write. The two of us have been together a long time. It has been 50 years since I had my first McDonald's hamburger. And fries.
Even then I knew you weren't healthy, and I'd sometimes feel lousy after being with you. But I didn't care, because you were a classic romantic temptress: Bad for me but seductive.
I fell in love. And remained in love.
I saw you less as I got older, but could never let go. Often without telling anyone, I'd meet you for an illicit rendezvous. You were still my temptress. So it's sad for me to have to tell you this, but I have no choice.
I saw in the news that McDonald's is discontinuing something I can't live without.
You're dropping Heinz ketchup.
So I'm dropping you.
Yes, I was with you for your burgers and fries. But I wanted them with Heinz. And now you're denying me. After 50 years of loyalty ... how could you?
I thought you knew me, McDonald's — knew that my father taught me to love four things above all others:
Family, integrity, baseball ...
… and Heinz.
"Nectar of the Gods, my boy," he'd call it.
He — and we — put it on everything: Steak, lamb chops, chicken. And of course, McDonald's hamburgers.
Heinz is even one reason I exist. My dad told me that when he was courting my mom, she was a mediocre cook, but he just poured Heinz on everything she made, which worked, so he decided to ask her to marry him after all.
Our household always had a half-dozen back-up bottles. We could have survived running out of electricity, even money — but not Heinz. We never once bought an alternate brand. Ketchup aficionados know that all others are poseurs.
Yet I now hear that you, McDonald's, are going to use a substitute. Were you a woman who told me I had to pick between her and Heinz, I would take her face in my hands, look deep in her eyes and tell her how much I will miss her.
As I will miss you.
The news reports say you are doing it for a petty reason. The owners of Heinz just made the former CEO of Burger King the new Heinz boss. McDonald's decided they don't want to do business with a former rival. So they're done with Heinz.
Worse, the stories said you've been phasing out Heinz for a while and only have had it recently in two domestic markets — Minneapolis and Pittsburgh. How come I never knew this? I feel we've been living a lie. And don't try to say this proves there's no difference, because I'm sure on some deep level … as lovers always do … I just knew.
I can't tell you how deeply this wounds me. Fifty years we've been together. Couldn't you have gritted your teeth and remained true to me about the thing I care so much about — ketchup?
I've certainly been true to you. That's how most Americans are with fast-food joints. We pick one. And stick with it. I mean, sure, I've hit up others sometimes, but you were my truest love.
Admittedly, I wasn't crazy about everything you did. I never liked the pickles you put on the burgers. Or the mustard. That's why I was relieved when you came up with the "Have it your way," campaign so I could order just with ketchup. Wait … that was Burger King's campaign. Sorry. Mental lapse. I would never mix you up with another paramour.
Then again, since breakups are a time for honesty, I'll also admit I cheated on you more as the years went by. When I began to worry about things kids aren't aware of — like cholesterol — I started getting Mandarin chicken salads at Wendy's. Plus, my children became "BK" freaks.
But they loved McDonald's, too. Unless you're some commie, who doesn't love McDonald's? Now that I think of it, you actually have outlets in China and Vietnam, so Communists do love you.
But McDonald's — I don't anymore.
I can't. Not without the right ketchup.
So alas, after 50 years, we must part.
But I won't make it "goodbye."
I'll hold onto hope.
Call me when you come to your senses.
On Twitter: @MarkPatinkin


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Thu December 5, 2013
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In this game led by host Ophira Eisenberg, we've removed the "x" sound in various words and phrases. Your job is to put the "x" back, based on the clue. For example, if she said, "Put an "x" in "hagon" to get a six-sided geometric shape, you would answer "hexagon."
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Good food that costs less than $1
Published On: May 29 2012 10:58:44 AM CDT
Updated On: Aug 27 2014 01:00:00 AM CDT
Today is National Banana Lovers Day! Lucky for you, bananas are super healthy. But did you know they're also one of several foods that cost less than $1?
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NEWTON's HOME PAGE
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Pump Limits
Name: Russell Status: Other Grade: Other Location: MA Country: United States Date: May 2008
I seem to recall early pumps in mines could only pump the water up so many feet, no matter how strong the pump. They used atmospheric engines. Is there a limit to how high a pump operated by a modern gas or electric motor can pump water?
There exist today extremely large pumps that can move huge amounts of various materials. If you are pumping (pushing) 'up', the limits are more practical than theoretical (you could build a pump arbitrarily large, but it might be cost-prohibitive or too hard to manufacture, move, or install, etc., but not theoretically impossible).
However, there is one issue that can arise if you are 'pulling' fluid from below, or with certain designs of pumps (such as a kind known as 'centrifugal' pumps). The force that a pump uses to move fluids is known as 'pressure drop' -- the difference between the pressure after and before the pump. 'Local pressure' is the pressure at a specific point (it can be a point inside or outside the pump). If the local pressure drops low enough, the fluid there can boil -- this is known as cavitation. The scientific definition of boiling is when the ambient pressure equals the vapor pressure of a fluid -- you can boil water at room temperature if you drop the pressure low enough.
If a pump is 'pulling' fluid up from below it, the pull of gravity downward opposes the pull upward of the pump, creating very low pressure. The water in between can cavitate (think of it as being 'pulled apart' by the pump and gravity so that it boils). For this reason, pumps are usually placed at the bottom of a pipe to push, rather than at the top to pull.
More commonly, the impeller blades in the pump can have very small areas of low pressure that cause cavitation. Tiny bubbles of water vapor form and then collapse in the pump, reducing efficiency and causing damage the pump due to vibration. This happens when the pump is operated too fast, or if certain operating problems occur.
Hope this helps,
Burr Zimmerman
Hi Russell,
The type of pump you are probably referring to is one that is located above the level of the water being pumped, and which "sucks" the water up from below to the pump above. An example would be a well pump that is located on ground level, and is sucking the water up from below. No pump (no matter how strong it is, or how big its motor is) can lift water up by suction more than 33.9 feet. The reason for this is that a column of water 33.9 feet high, exerts a pressure of 14.7 pounds per square inch, or exactly 1 atmosphere of pressure. When a pump tries to suck water up a pipe from below, what is really happening is that the pump creates a vacuum at the top of the pipe, and atmospheric pressure forces the water up the pipe toward the pump inlet.
Since a column of water 33.9 feet high causes a pressure of exactly 1 atmosphere at the column's bottom, atmospheric pressure cannot push it up any higher, even if the pump could draw a perfect vacuum above.
The only solution to this is to put the pump at the bottom (under the water you are trying to pump). In this case, the stronger the pump and its motor are, the higher the water can be pumped. An example of this is a water pump used to pump well water. Nowadays, so called "submersible" pumps are used for this. The pump is located under the water level in a well, and now there is no limit how high the pump can pump, providing the motor is strong enough.
Bob Wilson
If the pump is located at the bottom of the mine then it can push the water up to large heights. The height is limited only by the pressure capacity of the pump.
If the pump is at the top of the mine, then the pump can reduce the pressure in the pipe so that atmospheric pressure pushes the water up from below. In this case, the water can be pumped only about 10 meters up because the pressure of the atmosphere is about 0.1 MPa, or 15 pounds per square inch. That is what is also occurring when sucking on a drinking straw.
It is possible to pump and move water using capillary forces, but this phenomenon only works in limited circumstances.
Robert Erck
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Amarillo and St. Valery Carrots
We harvested our first four carrots a couple of nights ago. We weren't sure if they were ready or not so I pulled up a couple and was pleasantly surprised, they were definitely big enough to eat and looked very pretty. We planted two varieties this year, Amarillo carrots which are a light yellow color and St. Valery carrots which look like a standard carrot but so far have been a little wider than the Amarillo carrots.
We planted carrots here around May 20, 3 rows to our 30 inch bed, after they sprouted I thinned them out – about 1 carrot every 2 inches, and we had great success with them germinating although I missed quite a few when I was thinning them out, which caused some of our carrots to be too small to use. They have flourished this summer, and we should have plenty of carrots to use as we have been getting some from our CSA as well.
We cut one of each up and ate them raw, and they were both sweet and juicy, Jeremy thought the Amarillo carrots were a little bit sweeter than the St. Valery carrots but I didn't think I could tell a difference between the two. I put him to a blind taste test and he couldn't tell either. Both varieties taste so much better than the carrots you get from the supermarket and carrots have now become Jacob's favorite vegetable along with roasted beets. I think we are going to cut some up and freeze them to use in stir fries, etc. during the winter.
This entry was posted on Tuesday, August 4th, 2009 at 10:28 am and is filed under Colorado Gardening. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.


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Linux Journal Contents #69, January 2000
Networks and Communication
by Marjorie Richardson
The OpenPhone Project—Internet Telephony for Everyone!
by Greg Herlein
Call your friends and family from your computer—a look at the future or the present? With Linux, the future is now.
World Domination
by Eric Raymond
Eric takes a serious look at what the world will be like when Linux is the dominant operating system—or is he just kidding.
Advanced Packet Data Testing with Linux
by Wesley Erhart, Joseph Bell, Marc Hammons and Mark Mains
At Nortel Networks, we have developed a Linux-based system for testing a second-generation packet radio service. During system development we explored the details of packet radio, the IP internals of the Linux operating system and device-driver development.
BIND Version 8 Features
by Eddie Harari
Wondering about the latest version of BIND? Wonder no more. Mr. Harari is back this month to tell us all about it.
Using the Red Hat Package Manager
by Kirk Rafferty
This article will introduce you to RPM by showing you the most common features, namely how to query, install, upgrade and remove packages.
Workings of a Virtual Private Network in Linux—Part 2
by David Morgan
More about securing our comminication with the Internet.
1999 Readers' Choice Awards
by Jason Kroll
You voted, we counted—here are the results.
Penguin Playoffs Awards
by Peter H. Salus, Marjorie Richardson and Jason Kroll
And the winners are ...
Source-Navigator Version 4.2
by Daniel Lazenby
PNG: The Definitive Guide
by Michael J. Hammel
The Cathedral and the Bazaar
by Peter Salus
Linux Apprentice: Simplified IP Addressing
A look at an easy way to figure out what those pesky IP adresses
actually mean.
by Gene E. Hector
Linux Means Business Audio and Video Streaming for the Masses
by Gerald Crimp
How one company used Linux to provide transmission of live audio and video over the Internet.
Kernel Korner : The Bullet Points: Linux 2.4
by Joseph Pranevich
A look at what's new in the next kernel release.
Cooking with Linux The PPP Connection
by Marcel Gagné
At the Forge A Simple Search Engine
by Reuven M. Lerner
Focus on Software Focus on Software
by David A. Bandel
More Letters
From the Publisher January 2000
by Phil Hughes
Penguin's Progress: A Look at IPv6
by Peter Salus
Linux for Suits Running the Numbers
by Doc Searls
Best of Technical Support
New Products
Strictly On-Line
Linux and Banking
by Josip Almasi
A bank in Croatia is using Linux for its development platform. Here's the story.
Writing an Alphanumeric Pager Server for Linux
by Erik Max Francis
For those thinking of setting up an alphanumeric paging service or gateway, this article explains the protocols and methods involved.
Perl Annotated Archives
by Paul Dunne
The Collaborative Virtual Workspace
by Stephen Jones
Attend business meetings and bullsessions without ever leaving home—enter the virtual world.
Core PHP Programming: Using PHP to Build Dynamic Web Sites
by Allen Riddell
AppSwitch: Network Switching with Ada from Linux
by Ann S. Brandon
Software to automatically sort network communications to your specifications.
As Linux continues to play an ever increasing role in corporate data centers and institutions, ensuring the integrity and protection of these systems must be a priority. With 60% of the world's websites and an increasing share of organization's mission-critical workloads running on Linux, failing to stop malware and other advanced threats on Linux can increasingly impact an organization's reputation and bottom line.
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Most companies incorporate backup procedures for critical data, which can be restored quickly if a loss occurs. However, fewer companies are prepared for catastrophic system failures, in which they lose all data, the entire operating system, applications, settings, patches and more, reducing their system(s) to "bare metal." After all, before data can be restored to a system, there must be a system to restore it to.
In this one hour webinar, learn how to enhance your existing backup strategies for better disaster recovery preparedness using Storix System Backup Administrator (SBAdmin), a highly flexible bare-metal recovery solution for UNIX and Linux systems.
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Thank you to our 2014 Editorial Advisors!
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GOD'S WORD Translation (GW) | New International Version (NIV) |
18 Realize that you weren't set free from the worthless life handed down to you from your ancestors by a payment of silver or gold which can be destroyed. | 18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, |
GOD'S WORD® is a copyrighted work of God's Word to the Nations. Copyright © 1995 by God's Word to the Nations. All rights reserved. Used by permission. (God's Word Translation -Online Bible) | Scripture quoted by permission. Quotations designated (NIV) are from THE HOLY BIBLE: NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®. NIV®. Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by Biblica. All rights reserved worldwide. (New International Version Bible Online) |


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Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I was just forwarded a news article about a mysterious bee ailment killing large numbers of bee colonies. It's being called colony collapse disorder. Has anyone personally seen signs of this? |
Here is a link that might be useful: Feb 11 2007 Associated Press article about bee disease
Follow-Up Postings:
- Posted by scrappyjack 5 PA (My Page) on Tue, Feb 13, 07 at 8:56
Thanks for the update, I'm passing it along. |
- Posted by bella_trix z6b SE PA (My Page) on Tue, Feb 13, 07 at 23:13
You can download the Penn State report on Fall-Dwindle Disease at http://www.honeycouncil.ca/users/folder.asp?FolderID=5561 Very interesting, if scary, reading. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Fall-Dwindle Disease report
- Posted by bella_trix z6b SE PA (My Page) on Tue, Feb 13, 07 at 23:16
Whoops, I forgot to add that Colony Collapse Disorder and Fall-Dwindle Disease are the same thing. Belltrix |
This is scary! I wonder if I'll see any honey bees this year. I started seeing them again in limited numbers last summer. God, that is scary. I think honey bees are so cute! We have lots of white clover in our lawn for them too. I hope they don't become extinct! |
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/02/opinion/02berenbaum.html?th&emc=th I don't know how long this will be on the NY Times page--very good general article on CCD. I hope that the exposure in the world's premier newspaper will turn some heads and stimulate some research towards finding a cure. |
Great article! Here's the text in case the article becomes deleted from their site: Op-Ed Contributor Skip to next paragraph But people from all demographic groups across the country are facing a much more frightening real-life situation: the disappearance of millions of bees. This winter, in more than 20 states, beekeepers have noticed that their honeybees have mysteriously vanished, leaving behind no clues as to their whereabouts. There are no tell-tale dead bodies either inside colonies or out in front of hives, where bees typically deposit corpses of dead nestmates. What's more, the afflicted colonies tend to be full of honey, pollen and larvae, as if all of the workers in the nest precipitously decamped on some prearranged signal. Beekeepers are up in arms — last month, leaders in the business met with research scientists and government officials in Florida to figure out why the bees are disappearing and how to stop the losses. Nobody had any answers. That beekeepers are alarmed over this situation is understandable, but, just as in the movies, the public may not recognize the magnitude of the threat that these mysterious events present. A decline in the numbers of Apis melllifera, the world's most widely distributed semi-domesticated insect, doesn't just mean a shortage of honey for toast and tea. In fact, the economic value of honey, wax and other bee products is trivial in comparison with the honeybee's services as a pollinator. More than 90 crops in North America rely on honeybees to transport pollen from flower to flower, effecting fertilization and allowing production of fruit and seed. The amazing versatility of the species is worth an estimated $14 billion a year to the United States economy. Approximately one-third of the typical American's diet (primarily the healthiest part) is directly or indirectly the result of honey bee pollination. Production of almonds in California, a $2 billion enterprise, is almost entirely dependent on honey bees. Every year beekeepers transport millions of bees around the country to meet the ever-growing need for pollination services for almonds, apples, blueberries, peaches and other crops. This year it is possible that there won't be enough bees to meet the demand for pollinators. Theories abound as to potential causes of what is being called colony collapse disorder. As a social species living in close quarters at high densities — the average hive contains upwards of 30,000 insects — honeybees are prone to a staggering diversity of fungal, bacterial and viral diseases. In the 1980s, honeybee numbers plummeted when two species of parasitic mites appeared, wiping out most populations of wild bees and placing more pressure on managed colonies. This latest drop in numbers may be the consequence of a new infection, or of several diseases simultaneously, leading to a fatally compromised immune system. It is also possible that severe stress brought on by crowding, inadequate nutrition or even the combined effects of prophylactic antibiotics and miticides sprayed by beekeepers to ward off infections may be a factor. Another, particularly sad, possibility is that accidental exposure to a new pesticide may cause non-lethal behavioral changes that interfere with the ability of honeybees to orient and navigate; brain-damaged foraging bees may simply get lost on their way home and starve to death away from the hive. Irrespective of its causes, however, this drop comes at a critical time, with demand for pollination services rocketing upward. Even in a high-tech age when the human capacity to improve upon nature seems limitless, there is no satisfactory substitute for the honeybee. Thus it's astonishing that beekeeping remains largely unimproved by technological advances relative to just about every other form of animal husbandry. The basic design of honey bee housing is essentially unchanged since L. L. Langstroth patented his movable frame hive in 1852; artificial insemination of queens, the last significant technological advance in beekeeping, was introduced early in the 20th century. The 21st century holds great promise for innovation. Page 2 of 2) Last October, an international consortium of scientists announced the publication of the sequence of the entire honey bee genome. Among the benefits of knowing the full gene inventory is that it has allowed the construction of a whole-genome microarray — essentially a microscope slide dotted with genetic material — here at the University of Illinois. Microarray analysis is a powerful tool for examining differences among a very large number of genes rapidly and efficiently; it's the basis for new diagnostic tools, for example, for clinical evaluation of many forms of cancer. For bees, microarray analysis of differences between healthy and afflicted bees may reveal the causes and provide insights for developing a cure. The real key to dealing with colony collapse disorder, however, is understanding the extent of the problem, which may prove to be more of a challenge than figuring out its origins. Although Americans are in general good at counting things of value, we've done an absolutely appalling job at counting our bees and other pollinators. In October, I served as chair of a committee for the National Research Council, the research arm of the National Academy of Sciences, on the status of pollinators in North America. Among the clearest conclusions of our report was that Americans do not keep track of pollinators, even the one on which much of our agriculture depends. For example, the Department of Agriculture's statistics service has kept records of honeybee colonies managed by beekeepers since 1947, but the annual survey monitors only colonies used in honey production. Colonies used exclusively for pollination are not included, nor do surveys take into account the fact that some honey-producing colonies travel. The Agriculture Department also doesn't track bees kept by small-scale beekeepers with fewer than five colonies. No current survey monitors colony health or variability in bee numbers over the season, a critical variable for assessing population dynamics as well as economic effects of fluctuations. Although the Agriculture Department surveys beekeeping operations every five years using criteria that address some of these issues, five years between surveys provides ample time for irreparable damage to occur before a problem can be recognized. Conspicuous among the recommendations from the National Research Council committee was a call for the department to make annual bee assessments, with winter losses monitored, general health assessed and pollination services quantified. Moreover, no system is in place to monitor feral bees — those that escape from managed colonies yet contribute critical pollination services to both wild plants and farms. We need long-term monitoring of feral honeybees along with other pollinators if we are to understand the true magnitude of pollination services essential for a healthy agricultural economy. We count our pigs, our cows and our chickens (even before they hatch). The Agriculture Department, amid concerns about infectious disease and agro-terrorism, has even proposed establishing a national animal identification system, under which it could trace the origin of any animal in the food chain within 48 hours. Yet honeybees, which contribute to our food chain in many more ways than any other animal species (and whose pollination makes available the alfalfa and clover processed into hay to feed beef and dairy cattle), are disappearing without a trace at a rate we can't even measure accurately. Such obliviousness with respect to a precious resource in crisis might play well in a bad science fiction movie, but it's truly alarming to see it in real life. May R. Berenbaum, head of the department of entomology at the University of Illinois, is the author of "Buzzwords: A Scientist Muses on Sex, Bugs and Rock 'n' Roll." |
- Posted by dragonplant 7a, NC (My Page) on Tue, Mar 6, 07 at 14:16
After reading about this last week on the BBC, I looked for my usual honeybees this weekend that are usually covering the pansies anytime its warm and sunny (winter or not, they were there in December on the warm days). I didn't see any. It was about 60F, so I would have expected them to be out. I used to buy honey from a local shop that said it came from a street near my house, I will sure miss my local bees and their honey if they are gone. |
Dragonplant has hit the nail on the head for me, expressing my worst fears. I've been seeing story after story about this problem crop up in all the papers I read online, but all of the articles focus on commercial bee keepers and their practice of taking bees around to pollinate orchards and commercial farms. What concerns me (in addition to that) is whether wild bees are also going to be affected by whatever this is. Common sense tells me they probably will, although I did read in one article that some wild bees seem not to be affected to the same degree (maybe because they're not being fed corn syrup, and not being given medicines? both of which probably aren't really good for them? I'm just guessing). In the last few years I've seen fewer and fewer actual honeybees, anyway, but I've read that one out of every two "bites" of food we eat come to us courtesy of honebees. So an absence of honeybees, wild or otherwise, might affect us all greatly, whether we are growing commercially or as home gardeners, or growing anything ourselves at all. After all, we all need to eat. It's still early in the year, but dragonplant's observation makes me sad. My blueberry bushes are budding now, and I can only hope that there will be some bees around when the flowers open. I also hope people will continue to write with their own observations - especially if they begin to see some bees! |
- Posted by dragonplant 7a (My Page) on Tue, Mar 6, 07 at 14:52
Well here's where somebody's bees went. How can the media be reporting on missing bees in the US all the way to India and China, and people still gas a swarm for no reason?! Florida is even one of the states they are missing in! This makes me mad! westender, when I lived in the suburbs, I hardly saw any honeybees the whole 5 years I lived there. Since I moved out in the woods though, I always had plenty of both them and bumblebees. So many I even noticed there seemed to be a ton of them on my flowers for the past year and a half I've lived there (the local honey explained that)....last weekend though, none, that makes me sad too. |
Here is a link that might be useful: http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_064160034.html
- Posted by konrad___far_north 3 (My Page) on Tue, Mar 6, 07 at 20:01
This is not happening in Canada yet, but I'm sure it's a madder of time. I'm just guessing here, it could be another disease what started in a large commercial operation, like anything else we produce in large scale. It's just no good! I'm more in favour in promoting small scale and limit the size of commercials. Just my thought. Konrad |
Hola, I used to keep bees. My beekeeping buddy and I had 50 hives at one time, so could be considered hobbyists. That being said, I drop in on this forum every once in awhile to see what is happening in order to keep up. After reading this post the other day, I decided that I should pay more attention to the bees while I'm out and about. Yesterday, I looked for bees on the Sweet Alyssum that blooms abundantly here all year around and is attractive to them - no bees. Today, I checked an apricot tree that is in full bloom - maybe a dozen bees - if that. I also checked an Asian pear that is in mid bloom - two bees. The native Ceanothus also known as wild lilac is in bloom, but there are no bees to be found. It would seam that the bees that remain are being very selective as to what they will forage upon. Avocados are a cash crop in this area and the bees are known not to like to work the blossoms, so I would expect that with what I have observed in the last two days there is potential for a significant crop reduction. In past years there have been so many bees out working the native costal woodland habitat that the sound that they made was reminiscent of the drone of squadrons of propeller driven aircraft that populate old WWI movies. It is a bit early for the catkins on the oak, but I'll be sure to pay attention this year. The only hopeful bit of information to report is that there is a swarm at the nearby elementary school that is being left alone. The area has been roped off to protect it and the children. Terran |
Terran, Thanks so much for your report, although it's very frightening news. Here at my house in Atlanta, Georgia, I did see my first bee of the year last weekend. A single bee. I think I should be seeing lots more, but since I've never actually been in the habit of doing a head count, I can't say with certainty. I saw a few bumblebees, but only one honeybee. My oldest and most mature blueberry bush is in full bloom and I have seen no pollinators on it at all, which I know is not normal. I'm still hoping for berries, but not counting on them this year. I will definitely take this situation into consideration in deciding what vegetables to plant this year, maybe selecting more things that are pollinated by things other than bees, or that are not fruiting. More lettuce, anyone?? |
I came here from a link on GardenParty. This is so sad. Dragonplant, how big can a swarm get? We had one on a conifer in our garden many years ago. It was a bit scary when I first noticed it but I mentioned it at work and somebody said just leave it alone and they'll move on in two or three days and they did. The alternative was to find a beekeeper who might want to collect them. I suppose if the swarm is very large and in a bad location then just waiting might not be acceptable but I can't understand why the bees can't be collected? |
- Posted by todancewithwolves Z9 CA (My Page) on Thu, Mar 22, 07 at 13:30
I have definitely noticed the decline in my garden. I have see just two bee's this year one of which was a carpenter bee. I have a cottage garden and usually have many bee's especially on the crimson clover which is in full bloom right now. What can we do? Edna |
I've had a bee hive in my tree for years. This week has been the first "warm" week we've had up here, and I've yet to see any bees. I'm concerned as I've gone by the tree and I see NO activity whatsoever. They have an entrance hole into the base of the tree and then the main entrance is about two feet up. Would they still be deep down in the tree or are they gone? |
- Posted by konrad___far_north 3 (My Page) on Sat, Mar 24, 07 at 1:50
At any warm spill in winter, if it's above freezing, bees come out for cleansing flight. It looks like they are gone, that's too bad! Konrad |
Just read an article in Der Spiegel, German paper. The article included this quote: Albert Einstein quote: "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man." The article in "Der Spiegel" discusses the possibility that GMO crops may have some responsibility for the disappearance of bees. |
- Posted by scrappyjack Pa. 5 (My Page) on Thu, Mar 29, 07 at 9:24
KSFarmer, "Das ist" an interesting concept from Albert Einstien! Pardon my German ;) But what is a GMO crop? Jackie |
GMO's are genetically modified organisms. You've probably heard of some of these - soybeans, corn and alfalfa that have pesticides and herbicides genetically implanted somehow in the seed itself so that as the plant grows, the farmer doesn't ever have to spray the fields to kill weeds or insects because the plant produces the pesticide or herbicide itself. I've read recently that the amount of pesticide/herbicide material produced by such GMO plants is far, far greater than what any farmer would ever apply manually to his fields, because the plants produce it constantly as part of their daily growth process instead of only occasionally, as the farmer would have applied them to his fields. Also, I've read that the GMO crop plants can continue to produce these substances even after the crop has been harvested and the rubble is lying in the field or has been turned under. The articles I've read are unsure about how GMO's may be affecting bees because the science is so new and no one really understands yet how GMO's affect any of us. It's all speculative, but to my mind, common sense says these things aren't natural or good. Many European nations have outlawed GMO's and I've been wondering whether bees in Europe are affected by this colony collapse disorder. |
- Posted by tsugajunkie 5a SE_WI (My Page) on Thu, Mar 29, 07 at 20:01
So, hypothetically speaking, a corn crop could be genetically modified so that all its parts kill insects (including bees) and since corn is wind pollinated it would be deemed relatively safe for bees. That is, until the wind blown corn pollen attaches itself to other flowers downwind or the beekeeper feeds corn syrup to his over-wintering bees. Who's policing these GMO guys anyway? The strangest part to this puzzle to me is the lack of bodies. It seems much more often than not the bees simply disappear. Its almost as if something in the hive is repulsing them or disorienting them. tj |
Fyi - here's a link to the Der Spiegel article via another site. |
Here is a link that might be useful: zmag
Sevin dust is far more likely to kill a beehive than a GMO. The colonies described are largely migratory colonies subjected to great stress. My bees and many others are reporting no problems at all. Spreading false gloom and doom and blaming sources without evidence isn't helping. Bees have been dying in the wild and in aparies for the last 10 years from varroa mites, tracheal mites, and small hive beetles, all imported from other areas of the globe. |
I Have been working bees for 13 years this CCD is scare stuff I was lucky this year all of my hive made it throw. I work at a Nature center and we also run a Observation hive, I do not know if it is related but the hive had Novema, but they acted differently on vary cold days bees would go crazy and go running out and fly right into the snow. the only way I kept them alive was to block the tube on cold days. and then gave them some brood from one of my other hives. They are slowly coming back. maybe it has somthing to do with the Novema that is making they run out of the hives. |
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/04/07/366/ Published on Saturday April 7, 2007 by Agence France Presse Mysterious Disappearance of US Bees Creating a Buzz "US beekeepers have been stung in recent months by the mysterious disappearance of millions of bees threatening honey supplies as well as crops which depend on the insects for pollination.Bee numbers on parts of the east coast and in Texas have fallen by more than 70 percent, while California has seen colonies drop by 30 to 60 percent." ... |
Here is a link that might be useful: Mysterious Disappearance of US Bees
- Posted by xericgardening 9 (My Page) on Sat, Apr 7, 07 at 19:43
Yes. I have head of Colony collapse Disorder. The Montgomery County Texas Master Gardeners keep about 10 hives to service their extensive gardens and orchards they maintain on county grounds...All 10 hives died out this year. We just introduced (today) two queens and some workers into two hives. Too soon to say if this will work. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Desert Gardens
I read an article about more and more frogs becoming extinct, they claim it has to do with some almost invisible fungus. I wonder if the bees are encountering it too. They claim that the honey from the hives abandoned are often untouched, and no other predators eat the honey. I wonder if the fungus is somehow affecting the bees or their honey.... |
Montgomery County Texas Master Gardeners -- are you treating or doing IPM for varroa mites? Any sign of SHB? Were there sufficient stores for the winter? When did they die, fall, winter, early spring brood rearing? No longer can you throw bees in a hive and expect they will be there in a year or two. If you don't have a beekeeper working with you, I suggest you find one. If you do and still lost your bees, well it happens to the best of us at times. |
What is Novema? I tried searching on Google, but the results were inconclusive. |
- Posted by konrad___far_north 3 (My Page) on Wed, Apr 18, 07 at 22:18
How about Nosema? Konrad |
Many theories and speculations are proposed as to potential causes(s). You'll find up-to-date info at the web site of the CDD Working Group at Penn State. |
Here is a link that might be useful: CCD Working Group at Penn State
- Posted by legosrcool (My Page) on Sat, Apr 21, 07 at 22:33
Just before Easter weekend my 8yo DD saw ONE bee. I asked her what it was doing.......she said it was on the ground and it was "gasp" dying. Incidentally, this has been the ONLY bee we have seen in our yard to date. |
Lots of bad journalism and "bad science" in papers like the London "Independent" (ie, always good for a laugh) and Stern, better know for topless models on the cover. Research continues, and while this hits migratory pollinating beekeepers hard, it doesn't seem to impact hobby beekeepers. I had a about a 25% winter loss here in Indiana, where we have not had a confirmed case of CCD at all... |
The following was on the AOL newpage today: Bees Vanish, and Scientists Race for Reasons BELTSVILLE, Md., April 23 — What is happening to the bees? More than a quarter of the country's 2.4 million bee colonies have been lost -- tens of billions of bees, according to an estimate from the Apiary Inspectors of America, a national group that tracks beekeeping. So far, no one can say what is causing the bees to become disoriented and fail to return to their hives. As with any great mystery, a number of theories have been posed, and many seem to researchers to be more science fiction than science. People have blamed genetically modified crops, cellular phone towers and high-voltage transmission lines for the disappearances. Or was it a secret plot by Russia or Osama bin Laden to bring down American agriculture? Or, as some blogs have asserted, the rapture of the bees, in which God recalled them to heaven? Researchers have heard it all. The volume of theories "is totally mind-boggling," said Diana Cox-Foster, an entomologist at Pennsylvania State University. With Jeffrey S. Pettis, an entomologist from the United States Department of Agriculture, Dr. Cox-Foster is leading a team of researchers who are trying to find answers to explain "colony collapse disorder," the name given for the disappearing bee syndrome. "Clearly there is an urgency to solve this," Dr. Cox-Foster said. "We are trying to move as quickly as we can." Dr. Cox-Foster and fellow scientists who are here at a two-day meeting to discuss early findings and future plans with government officials have been focusing on the most likely suspects: a virus, a fungus or a pesticide. About 60 researchers from North America sifted the possibilities at the meeting today. Some expressed concern about the speed at which adult bees are disappearing from their hives; some colonies have collapsed in as little as two days. Others noted that countries in Europe, as well as Guatemala and parts of Brazil, are also struggling for answers. "There are losses around the world that may or not be linked," Dr. Pettis said. So far, known enemies of the bee world, like the varroa mite, on their own at least, do not appear to be responsible for the unusually high losses. Genetic testing at Columbia University has revealed the presence of multiple microorganisms in bees from hives or colonies that are in decline, suggesting that something is weakening their immune system. The researchers have found some fungi in the affected bees that are found in humans whose immune systems have been suppressed by the Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome or cancer. "That is extremely unusual," Dr. Cox-Foster said. "There are so many of our crops that require pollinators," said Representative Dennis Cardoza, a California Democrat whose district includes that state's central agricultural valley, and who presided last month at a Congressional hearing on the bee issue. "We need an urgent call to arms to try to ascertain what is really going on here with the bees, and bring as much science as we possibly can to bear on the problem." So far, colony collapse disorder has been found in 27 states, according to Bee Alert Technology Inc., a company monitoring the problem. A recent survey of 13 states by the Apiary Inspectors of America showed that 26 percent of beekeepers had lost half of their bee colonies between September and March. Honeybees are arguably the insects that are most important to the human food chain. They are the principal pollinators of hundreds of fruits, vegetables, flowers and nuts. The number of bee colonies has been declining since the 1940s, even as the crops that rely on them, such as California almonds, have grown. In October, at about the time that beekeepers were experiencing huge bee losses, a study by the National Academy of Sciences questioned whether American agriculture was relying too heavily on one type of pollinator, the honeybee. Bee colonies have been under stress in recent years as more beekeepers have resorted to crisscrossing the country with 18-wheel trucks full of bees in search of pollination work. These bees may suffer from a diet that includes artificial supplements, concoctions akin to energy drinks and power bars. In several states, suburban sprawl has limited the bees' natural forage areas. So far, the researchers have discounted the possibility that poor diet alone could be responsible for the widespread losses. They have also set aside for now the possibility that the cause could be bees feeding from a commonly used genetically modified crop, Bt corn, because the symptoms typically associated with toxins, such as blood poisoning, are not showing up in the affected bees. But researchers emphasized today that feeding supplements produced from genetically modified crops, such as high-fructose corn syrup, need to be studied. The scientists say that definitive answers for the colony collapses could be months away. But recent advances in biology and genetic sequencing are speeding the search. Computers can decipher information from DNA and match pieces of genetic code with particular organisms. Luckily, a project to sequence some 11,000 genes of the honeybee was completed late last year at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, giving scientists a huge head start on identifying any unknown pathogens in the bee tissue. "Otherwise, we would be looking for the needle in the haystack," Dr. Cox-Foster said. Large bee losses are not unheard of. They have been reported at several points in the past century. But researchers think they are dealing with something new -- or at least with something previously unidentified. "There could be a number of factors that are weakening the bees or speeding up things that shorten their lives," said Dr. W. Steve Sheppard, a professor of entomology at Washington State University. "The answer may already be with us." Scientists first learned of the bee disappearances in November, when David Hackenberg, a Pennsylvania beekeeper, told Dr. Cox-Foster that more than 50 percent of his bee colonies had collapsed in Florida, where he had taken them for the winter. Dr. Cox-Foster, a 20-year veteran of studying bees, soon teamed with Dennis vanEngelsdorp, the Pennsylvania apiary inspector, to look into the losses. In December, she approached W. Ian Lipkin, director of the Greene Infectious Disease Laboratory at Columbia University, about doing genetic sequencing of tissue from bees in the colonies that experienced losses. The laboratory uses a recently developed technique for reading and amplifying short sequences of DNA that has revolutionized the science. Dr. Lipkin, who typically works on human diseases, agreed to do the analysis, despite not knowing who would ultimately pay for it. His laboratory is known for its work in finding the West Nile disease in the United States. Dr. Cox-Foster ultimately sent samples of bee tissue to researchers at Columbia, to the Agriculture Department laboratory in Maryland, and to Gene Robinson, an entomologist at the University of Illinois. Fortuitously, she had frozen bee samples from healthy colonies dating to 2004 to use for comparison. After receiving the first bee samples from Dr. Cox-Foster on March 6, Dr. Lipkin's team amplified the genetic material and started sequencing to separate virus, fungus and parasite DNA from bee DNA. "This is like 'C.S.I.' for agriculture," Dr. Lipkin said. "It is painstaking, gumshoe detective work." Dr. Lipkin sent his first set of results to Dr. Cox-Foster, showing that several unknown microorganisms were present in the bees from collapsing colonies. Meanwhile, Mr. vanEngelsdorp and researchers at the Agriculture Department lab here began an autopsy of bees from collapsing colonies in California, Florida, Georgia and Pennsylvania to search for any known bee pathogens. At the University of Illinois, using knowledge gained from the sequencing of the bee genome, Dr. Robinson's team will try to find which genes in the collapsing colonies are particularly active, perhaps indicating stress from exposure to a toxin or pathogen. The national research team also quietly began a parallel study in January, financed in part by the National Honey Board, to further determine if something pathogenic could be causing colonies to collapse. Mr. Hackenberg, the beekeeper, agreed to take his empty bee boxes and other equipment to Food Technology Service, a company in Mulberry, Fla., that uses gamma rays to kill bacteria on medical equipment and some fruits. In early results, the irradiated bee boxes seem to have shown a return to health for colonies repopulated with Australian bees. "This supports the idea that there is a pathogen there," Dr. Cox-Foster said. "It would be hard to explain the irradiation getting rid of a chemical." Still, some environmental substances remain suspicious. Chris Mullin, a Pennsylvania State University professor and insect toxicologist, recently sent a set of samples to a federal laboratory in Raleigh, N.C., that will screen for 117 chemicals. Of greatest interest are the "systemic" chemicals that are able to pass through a plant's circulatory system and move to the new leaves or the flowers, where they would come in contact with bees. One such group of compounds is called neonicotinoids, commonly used pesticides that are used to treat corn and other seeds against pests. One of the neonicotinoids, imidacloprid, is commonly used in Europe and the United States to treat seeds, to protect residential foundations against termites and to help keep golf courses and home lawns green. In the late 1990s, French beekeepers reported large losses of their bees and complained about the use of imidacloprid, sold under the brand name Gaucho. The chemical, while not killing the bees outright, was causing them to be disoriented and stay away from their hives, leading them to die of exposure to the cold, French researchers later found. The beekeepers labeled the syndrome "mad bee disease." The French government banned the pesticide in 1999 for use on sunflowers, and later for corn, despite protests by the German chemical giant Bayer, which has said its internal research showed the pesticide was not toxic to bees. Subsequent studies by independent French researchers have disagreed with Bayer. Alison Chalmers, an eco-toxicologist for Bayer CropScience, said at the meeting today that bee colonies had not recovered in France as beekeepers had expected. "These chemicals are not being used anymore," she said of imidacloprid, "so they certainly were not the only cause." Among the pesticides being tested in the American bee investigation, the neonicotinoids group "is the number-one suspect," Dr. Mullin said. He hoped results of the toxicology screening will be ready within a month. |
roselee, you beat me to it. I was about to post that article. So, what does it teach us? 1) irradiating the bee equipment seems to help the colonies recover, suggesting (very strongly) that the culprit is a pathogen--fungus, virus, bacteria or mycoplasma--or a combination of them. 2) French research has shown that Imidicloprid does have some negative effect on the bees which is similar to what we're seeing with CCD. BTW, this pesticide is being pushed hard on grape growers to control the glassy-winged sharpshooter here in California. 3) CCD is found in places like Guatemala where there are very few if any GMO crops being grown, so genetically-modified crops are NOT the cause. 4) CCD is found in Brazil, where killer bees are found, so even AHBs are not immune. |
Mind you, not all abscondings are CCD necessarily. Penn State put an hypothesis together that it is a fungus, an opportunistic fungus, that seems to go toxic when bees are previously stressed, such as moved around the country, or subject to repeated splits. The fungus story on this week really got any press. Nothing determined yet. |
ccrb1 and all, There was a video on AOL news today about this fungus. The lady reporter called it a "single-celled parasite, a fungus." Well, there are single-celled fungi, so that's a possibility. This just re-emphasizes what I've been saying all along--keep your equipment clean, and do NOT share equipment, because you'll spread the disease. Of course, as much as possible, minimize the stress on your bees. Finally, for those of us who are hobbyists rather than professionals, there is good evidence that wild hives are healthier than hives whose queens were artifically inseminated (both my hives came from colonies I captured from the wild). When I get a chance, I'm going to start a new thread on this subject. Rudolf Steiner wrote a book in the 1920s in which he predicted the demise of honeybee populations due to the (then) new practice of artifical insemination, which he felt was a very bad idea. If you know anything about Steiner's philosophies, you'll know that his reasons sound completely wacko to most people, but the fact remains that he was right in his prediction. |
- Posted by queencrimson 7b/8a (My Page) on Sun, Apr 29, 07 at 7:21
Wikipedia has a lot of very good information on Colony Collapse Disorder, at least what is suspected and basic info about bees and their many various diseases and stressors. Even though GMO corn and cotton crops don't rely on bees for pollination, the bees will often feed on their pollen. And the oft quoted bit supposedly uttered by Einstein about bees doesn't seem to be verifiable by a search of his writings or public speaches. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_Collapse_Disorder http://www.snopes.com/quotes/einstein/bees.asp There have been hearings about CCD in congress recently, with some interseting and disturbing testimony. I was wondering if the reason most people haven't heard about this yet, and it's not getting any TV coverage, is they're afraid the news may create fear and panic in certain sectors, negatively affecting the markets, and having a ripple effect. One of the experts before Congress said as much, and that the markets, and prices, will be affected in the near future anyway. Scary stuff, especially after just having watched the film "Children Of Men"! |
- Posted by milleruszk z6 NJ (My Page) on Tue, May 1, 07 at 20:07
I am very dis-heartened to read about colony collapse disorder. To my amazement I began seeing honey bees visiting my garden last year after a long long absence. I had hoped that the problems plaguing honey bee colonies had subsided. Now this! I would be a bee keeper myself if I lived in a different area. I can only hope that the bees visiting my garden last year return again this year! |
If I may, allow me to be a jerk. Colony Collapse Disorder isn't happening. Other than anecdote and sources with a profit or political agenda who is claiming it is? Who has actually tracked bee populations over time and can say it is up or down over 10 years ago? It isn't hard to find bee keepers whose colony mysteriously died, it has been going on since people kept bees. Where is the actual evidence that honey bee populations have dwindled? The other thing is the Einstein quote is bogus. Even if it wasn't, Einstein wasn't a beekeeper nor was he famous for his naturalist mind. The fact that the quote is a bogus appeal to a (false) authority ought to raise some red flags in people's critical thinking portion of their brain. Honey bees aren't even native to the US so the idea their extinction would result in worldwide starvation is just silly. |
Whos tracks honey bee colonies? The USDA for one, and most states since it is agricultural big business. http://marketnews.usda.gov/portal/usda/templates/honey/honey2006/20060810hny.pdf http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/MannUsda/viewDocumentInfo.do?documentID=1191 And now the US congress is doing so. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL33938.pdf How about the National Honey Board http://www.honey.com/ MAAREC is a regional group focused on addressing the pest management crisis facing the beekeeping industry in the Mid-Atlantic Region. http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/index.html State of South Dakota http://www.state.sd.us/doa/das/hp-apiar.htm Cornell University http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/MannUsda/viewDocumentInfo.do?documentID=1191 Texas A&M University and the State of Texas http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/MannUsda/viewDocumentInfo.do?documentID=1191 The economic impact of bees on agriculture is indisputable. You seem to forget that many of the crops we now depend on are not native either. |
- Posted by konrad___far_north 3 (My Page) on Thu, May 3, 07 at 20:29
>>Honey bees aren't even native to the US<< So are we! Konrad |
I don't know if they're honeybees, but there are lots of fuzzy bees all over our native blackberries here. I noticed because of all the publicity about CCD. Not a beekeeper, but I do like to eat! |
"If I may, allow me to be a jerk. Colony Collapse Disorder isn't happening." You're actually not alone in this thinking. Some researchers aren't at all convinced that CCD isn't taking on a life all its own and doesn't necessarily exist as a new problem. With the past week, my state, Indiana, turned red on the map as did Illinois. Holy Cow, it's May already and 80° outside today. I emailed the person who does the map and he sent back this cryptic reply: --- We get pressure from all sides - try to do our best -- this is a self-reporting survey. Queen producing, package producing, and states renting lots of bee for pollination lobby us for de-listing. Most extreme case - state inspector and state association lobbied to be de-listed, knowing full well that we had sampled CCD colonies and that one of their own had just called the CCD Working group to ask for help. Conversely, the American Beekeeping Federation would like us to list all state so that all would qualify if and when Congress provides beekeeper disaster relief.--- Rob |
All hype and no proof. Right up there with Global Warming. The bees are definitely out there, maybe not the numbers of last year but they go thru cycles just like the rest of nature. Imagine that. I can guarantee you that produce is not going to suffer. The doomsdayers need to get a life. |
Geez, it sounds like the revisionist Republicans have gotten ahold of this forum. Yes, CCD is a major problem, and the whole idea behind finding a cure is to prevent a major collapse of the food chain. Professional beekeepers I've spoken to locally have seen major declines in their bees. One of them, just up the road, has lost 100 hives. That's got to take a bite out of your bottom line. If you talk to old time beekeepers, they'll tell you that they've never lost 100 hives in one season for no apparent reason. |
It's not revisionists. There are many researchers who are not sure that CCD exists as a specific and unique disorder. Although the hive losses are significant, they're hardly unprecedented. Tracheal mite losses were as bad or worse. Personally, I do think CCD is something specific but perhaps not new. Hopefully we will know soon. |
- Posted by Paula Huff 9a(email@example.com) onThu, Jul 3, 08 at 10:36
I was about to chlorinate my pool today when I saw a few bees taking water to spray on their hive nearby to cool it off. It was then I realized that chlorinated pools could be a possible cause of colony collapse disorder. I put the chlorine back in the storage room instead of pouring some into the pool, and decided that I'm only going to chlorinate my pool very lightly, and only at night so the chlorine has a lot of time to dissipate before it gets hot out and the bees show up to get water. A little chlorinated pool water might not do much harm to a hive, but if the bees repeatedly spray the hive with varying concentrations of chlorinated water, over time the hive will likely collapse and nobody would know what happened. Somebody ought to look into this - are hives collapsing in warmer zones faster than cooler zones? Perhaps the effects of chlorine happen gradually over time, and weaken the colonies a little bit more each generation as the effects of chlorine accumulate. Cooler zones would not provide immunity to CCD because of the migratory (swarming) behavior of bees. Eventually colonies in the cooler zones would collapse, but it would start several generations later than in the warmer zones. If chlorinated pool water is indeed the root cause of CCD, it would stand to reason that bees in the hottest parts of the country - where more people have pools - would be hit the hardest and fastest with CCD. My family had a few hundred hives in Chino Hills, CA while I was growing up, I was raised with bees, and I love them. I hope we can stop CCD in time. It sure would be nice if it was something as simple as pool chlorine. |
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Sat, Mar 21, 09 at 10:50
It just made my day yesterday when my pony Princess kept falling me around, being so sweet and wanting ear rubs. I loved it. |
Follow-Up Postings:
Aw.... How wonderful. I would like to rub those sweet ears too. |
- Posted by summerwine (My Page) on Mon, Mar 23, 09 at 10:39
awwwwwwwwww, she's SO cute! liannePA :o) |
- Posted by lindajewell (My Page) on Mon, Mar 23, 09 at 13:05
She is a sweetie and I too would like to rub those ears! |
- Posted by konrad___far_north (My Page) on Wed, Mar 25, 09 at 21:28
Lovely...it's nice to have a friend like this! I grew up with horses...lots of good memories,....and some bad. Konrad |
She's a cutie! I always admired them but was afraid...I heard they can smell your fear??? Although the first time I actually road one I overdid it, besides not saddling right and slipping sideways and falling-got blisters on a way too long of a ride! But it was fun-but the last ride, too! |
I have only road a horse twice, and not very good at that. I want to learn, Sunshine, the momma of Princess is ridable so.... one of these days. Someone borrowed us a saddle to try out on Sunshine, but we know nothing on how to do it. Gonna have to have someone come over to show us. I would love to try to ride Sunshine. If it works out, we may have to try to hire someone to saddle break Princess. But we will just have to see. |
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