text:
James S. Marks for the Applicant.
Michael G. Cochrane and Jennifer Krob for the Respondent.
Sean Gaudet for the Intervener, The Attorney General for Canada.
Courtney Harris for the Intervener, Attorney General of Ontario.
Introduction and factual background:
¶ 1 In Canada marriage for civil purposes is defined as "the lawful union of two persons to the exclusion of all others." [See Note 1 below] The issue on this motion is whether the union the parties entered into pursuant to the United Kingdom's Civil Partnership Act 2004 [See Note 2 below] is a marriage that can be dissolved under the provisions of Canada's Divorce Act, [See Note 3 below] and whether that union made the parties "spouses" as defined by Ontario's Family Law Act. [See Note 4 below]
Note 1: Civil Marriage Act, S.C. 2005, c. 33.
Note 2: 2004, c. 33.
Note 3: R.S.C. 1985, c.3 (2nd Supp.) as amended.
Note 4: R.S.O. 1990, c. F.3.
¶ 2 Wayne Hincks and Gerardo Gallardo are same sex partners. Mr. Hincks holds dual Canadian/United Kingdom citizenship. Mr. Gallardo is a dual Canadian/Mexican citizen. Shortly after the parties met in August of 2009, they developed a romantic relationship. At that time, Mr. Hincks was practicing architecture in the UK, while Mr. Gallardo owned and operated a business in Toronto. According to Mr. Hincks, Mr. Gallardo expressed a wish to reside in the UK. Mr. Gallardo says Mr. Hincks invited him to come and live in the UK because Mr. Gallardo could not practice architecture in Ontario. Regardless of what led to the decision, the parties decided to live together and formalize their relationship. They agreed Mr. Gallardo would move to the UK and they would enter into a civil partnership so that Mr. Hincks could sponsor Mr. Gallardo to come to the UK under a Civil Partnership Entry Visa.
¶ 3 The United Kingdom, unlike Canada, does not have provision for marriage between same sex partners. Instead, the Civil Partnership Act creates a parallel regime that affords same sex partners the same rights and responsibilities as civil marriage by virtue of a civil partnership. Only same sex partners can enter into civil partnerships in the UK.
¶ 4 Mr. Gallardo travelled to the UK under the Civil Partnership Entry Visa in early October of 2009. On October 21, 2009 the parties entered into a civil partnership under the UK's Civil Partnership Act. In order to enter into their civil partnership, the parties were required to do the following:
Post a declaration of their impending civil partnership in a newspaper and on the wall in the council two weeks before the ceremony;
Provide documentation proving that neither was married or a civil partner in another civil partnership, and swear a declaration to that effect;
Be separately interviewed by the Registrar to ensure that their relationship was genuine and that they understood their rights and obligations as civil partners;
Have two witnesses present for the creation of the civil partnership before the Registrar.
¶ 5 The parties exchanged vows and rings before the Registrar. While there is some dispute between the parties, it is apparent they enjoyed a celebratory dinner after the event, cut a special cake and then travelled to Bologna, Italy. Whether this trip was a "honeymoon" or not is of little importance. What is of importance is that the creation of their civil partnership changed the parties' legal status; after the ceremony they were no longer single persons, but became civil partners with virtually identical rights and responsibilities as those enjoyed by married persons in the UK.
¶ 6 After the parties became civil partners, Mr. Gallardo obtained a UK national identity card, which identifies him as "SPOUSE/PARTNER".
¶ 7 Mr. Gallardo did not work in the UK, but operated his Toronto business remotely. Because his business was struggling, he decided he would have to return to Toronto to manage it here. On January 15, 2010 the parties relocated to Toronto. At that time, Mr. Hincks' employer was experiencing a slowdown in its business so Mr. Hincks decided to take an unpaid six-month sabbatical for the period he would be in Toronto. Had he not, he likely would have been laid off.
¶ 8 After the parties returned to Toronto their relationship began to deteriorate. In July 2010, at the end of his sabbatical, Mr. Hincks returned to London only to find he no longer had a job. The parties agreed that Mr. Hincks would come back to Toronto again. He did so on September 17, 2010. The relationship deteriorated even further.
¶ 9 In November of 2010 Mr. Hincks found work in Toronto as an urban designer at a salary of $69,000 per year. He held the position from then until January, 2011. In February of 2011 Mr. Hincks accused Mr. Gallardo of assaulting him. Criminal charges followed, as did the end of the relationship later in February, 2011.
¶ 10 In February, 2011 Mr. Gallardo filed for divorce in Ontario but later withdrew the application. The parties disagree on why this was done. In March, 2011 Mr. Hincks commenced this proceeding. In it, he claims a divorce, equalization of net family property and spousal support. In the alternative, Mr. Hincks claims spousal support under the provisions of the Family Law Act.
¶ 11 When he received Mr. Hincks' application, Mr. Gallardo took the position the parties were not married and therefore the application disclosed no cause of action. Mr. Hincks then moved, among other things, for a declaration that the parties' civil partnership is a marriage within the meaning of Canada's Civil Marriage Act.
¶ 12 The motion came on before Grace J in April of 2011. Justice Grace was of the view [See Note 5 below] that the "requested declaration may have ramifications beyond the parties." He went on to hold that "the Attorney General of Canada and the Attorney General of Ontario should be given notice of and an opportunity to intervene in this proceeding." He recognized that while a constitutional issue had not been raised before him, the Attorneys should nevertheless be given notice of the declaration the applicant sought.
Note 5: Hincks v. Gallardo Court file FS-11-367046 (S.C.J.) unreported endorsement of Grace J released April 8, 2011.
¶ 13 Both Attorneys General received notice, and were given an opportunity to intervene. Both elected to do so. Interestingly, like the parties themselves they take a contrary position to one another.
The parties' and Attorneys' positions:
¶ 14 Mr. Hincks takes the position that first, the requirements of the UK Civil Partnership Act meet all the statutory criteria of marriage as defined by Canada's Civil Marriage Act. He therefore argues the parties are married, and this marriage can be dissolved. He says to hold otherwise would be discriminatory and contrary to the equality provisions of the Charter. Second, he says the provisions of the UK Civil Partnership Act are sufficient to satisfy the criteria of the Family Law Act in its definition of married spouse under Part I of the statute.
¶ 15 Mr. Gallardo takes the position that the parties were never married. In a nutshell, he says the Civil Partnership Act specifically states civil partnerships are not marriages in the UK. Indeed, the UK Matrimonial Causes Act [See Note 6 below] makes a marriage void if the parties to it are not "respectively male and female". In the face of this, he suggests an Ontario court cannot declare the civil partnership a marriage. As a result, he says the court has no jurisdiction to grant any relief under the Divorce Act or equalization under the Family Law Act. He says the parties do not fall into the extended definition of "spouse" under the Family Law Act since they did not cohabit for a period of more than three years, and therefore no support rights are available under the Family Law Act.
Note 6: Matrimonial Causes Act, 1973 c. 18 section 11(c).
¶ 16 Mr. Gallardo suggests that some UK civil partners would not choose to marry even if it were an option in the UK. He therefore says that Canadian courts should not impose marriage on civil partners who move to Canada when they may have always intended to avoid marriage.
¶ 17 Mr. Gallardo points to the fact that same sex couples from foreign jurisdictions are free to marry when they come to Canada if they wish to change their legal status. He therefore says the court should not confer married status on such couples unless they unequivocally choose that particular status.
¶ 18 Mr. Gallardo also suggests that if the court recognizes foreign institutions as marriages in Canada, this will encourage jurisdiction shopping in order to acquire rights that would not be available to civil partners in their home jurisdiction.
¶ 19 Last, Mr. Gallardo raises what might be called the "floodgates" or "unintended consequences" argument, meaning that all civil partnerships, including those registered under provincial law in, for example, Quebec or Nova Scotia, would be deemed to be marriages. He says this would or could run contrary to the parties' express intentions in those jurisdictions, making them married with all the attendant rights and responsibilities they had no intention of acquiring. He therefore says this motion must be dismissed.
The Attorneys' positions
¶ 20 Canada also says the parties are not married. It points to the conflict of law rule that the validity of a marriage is determined by the law of the place where the marriage was celebrated. Canada relies on British case law that says a civil partnership is not, by definition, a marriage, and therefore Canada cannot confer a legal status on the parties that the lex loci celebrationis does not confer on them.
¶ 21 Canada points to the fact that the Civil Partnership Act sets out its own dissolution process that includes resolving property and financial matters. It says Mr. Hincks should therefore seek relief in England, rather than in Canada.
¶ 22 Last, Canada takes the position that section 15(1) of the Charter does not require the court to construe a UK civil partnership as a "marriage" under the Civil Marriage Act and the Divorce Act.
¶ 23 Ontario, however, takes the position the parties' civil partnership brings them into the definition of married spouses under section 1 of the Family Law Act. Ontario says that the "modern approach" to statutory interpretation must be applied having regard to the context and objectives of the Family Law Act. Ontario argues that the definition of "spouse" in section 1 must be given "a broad and liberal interpretation to capture relationships that are both formally and functionally equivalent to marriage." [See Note 7 below] It argues that by analogy to the Family Law Act's recognition of polygamous marriages and void and voidable marriages as "marriage", under the definition of "spouse" in section 1, similar recognition should be extended to the parties' civil partnership.
Note 7: Ontario's factum at paragraph 2.
¶ 24 Ontario points to British case law [See Note 8 below] that has held an Ontario same sex marriage cannot be recognized as a marriage in the UK, but will be recognized as a civil partnership. It argues the same logic can be applied here; namely, if an Ontario same sex marriage can be recognized as a British civil partnership, why can a British civil partnership not be recognized as a marriage in Ontario? When he first considered this issue, Grace J raised this very question, asking:
Why, logically, could the converse not also be true? Why couldn't a court in Canada look at the nature of the foreign process, the incidents which attach to the union and conclude, as a matter of public policy, that it may not be a marriage in name but it is one in substance? [See Note 9 below]
Note 8: Wilkinson v. Kitzinger, [2006] EWHC 2022 (Fam. Div.).
Note 9: Op cit at footnote 5, paragraph 26.
¶ 25 The contrary positions taken by Canada and Ontario raise the interesting question of whether the parties could be spouses for the purposes of Ontario legislation, but not spouses for the purposes of the Divorce Act.
¶ 26 What is marriage? Put a different way, what marriages can be dissolved in Canada under the provisions of the Divorce Act? What relationships create the status of "spouses" under the Divorce Act and the Family Law Act? Would it violate our Charter values not to recognize these parties' registered civil partnership as a "marriage"? These are the fundamental question I must answer. In doing so, I will address all the arguments the parties have raised. First, however, I situate the issue in the context of the different legislative and constitutional frameworks in Canada and the UK.
¶ 27 The issue of whether the former common law definition of marriage as "the voluntary union for life of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others" [See Note 10 below] was discriminatory against same sex couples came before the Ontario Court of Appeal in Halpern v. Toronto (City). [See Note 11 below] There, the court expressly held that "separate but equal" partnership legislation that fell short of marriage was contrary to Canada's public policy, was discriminatory and violated the equality guarantees of our Charter.
Note 10: Hyde v. Hyde (1866), L.R. 1 P.D. 130, 35 L.J.P. & M.57 (Eng. P.D.A.).
Note 11: Halpern v. Toronto (City), (2003), 172 O.A.C. 276.
¶ 28 The court in Halpern specifically found that same-sex couples were excluded from the fundamental societal institution called marriage, saying:
Based on the forgoing analysis, it is our view that the dignity of persons, in same-sex relationships is violated by the exclusion of same-sex couples from the institution of marriage. Accordingly, we conclude that the common-law definition of marriage as "the voluntary union for life of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others" violates s. 15(1) of the Charter.
¶ 29 As a result, the court struck down the former definition of marriage and reformulated it as "the voluntary union for life of two persons to the exclusion of all others." This new definition of marriage has effectively been codified in the Civil Marriage Act, which also codifies in the Preamble the policy statements the courts have enunciated in Halpern and elsewhere.
¶ 30 To the contrary, the United Kingdom has followed a different policy path. There, a civil partnership is the only method by which gay people can change their legal status from single to something different. They are not permitted to marry; instead, the UK has developed a parallel but equal system exclusively for the gay community. In the UK, a civil partnership and a marriage are legally equal. They are considered substantively equal. This was confirmed by the High Court of Justice, Family Division in the UK in Wilkinson v. Kitzinger. [See Note 12 below]
Note 12: See Wilkinson v. Kitzinger, op cit.
¶ 31 In Wilkinson the parties were same sex partners who had validly married in Canada. They applied to the court in the UK for a declaration recognizing their marriage as a marriage in the UK. Alternatively, they suggested that s. 11(c) of the Matrimonial Causes Act and chapter 2 of part 5 of the Civil Partnership Act were incompatible with the Human Rights Act of 1998. [See Note 13 below]
Note 13: S. 11(c) of the Matrimonial Causes Act makes a marriage void if the parties are not "respectively male and female". Chapter 2 of Part 5 of the Civil Partnership Act deals with "overseas relationships" and treats them as civil partnerships in the UK. "Overseas relationships" are defined in the Civil Partnership Act and include same-sex marriages solemnized in Canada, as well as Nova Scotia Civil Partnerships and Quebec Civil Unions.
¶ 32 The court in Wilkinson describes the civil partnership scheme as making available to civil partners "essentially every material right and responsibility presently arising from marriage, with the exception of the form of ceremony and the actual name and status of marriage. Parliament ostensibly passed the Act ... because it elected to do so as a policy choice." The court goes on to address the UK's legislative intention and says it "was not to create a 'second class' institution but a parallel and equalising institution designed to redress a perceived inequality of treatment of long term monogamous same-sex relationships, while at the same time, demonstrating support for the long established institution of marriage."
¶ 33 In Wilkinson the court says: "Parliament has taken steps by enacting the C.P.A. to accord to same-sex relationships effectively all the rights, responsibilities, benefits and advantages of civil marriage save the name." It concludes that if that distinction discriminates against same-sex partners, the discrimination has a legitimate aim, and is reasonable and proportionate.
¶ 34 Finally, the court in Wilkinson determined that "apart from the insurmountable hurdle presented by s. 11(c) to recognition of a same-sex marriage as valid in English law, there is abundant authority that an English court will decline to recognise or apply what might otherwise be an appropriate foreign rule of law, when to do so would be against public policy: Vervaeke v. Smith [1983] AC 145 at 164C. As already indicated, English public policy in the matter is demonstrated by s. 11(c) of the MCA and the relevant provisions of the CPA." [See Note 14 below]
Note 14: Wilkinson at paragraph 130.
¶ 35 In the result, Wilkinson, relying on the express provisions of the Civil Partnership Act regarding foreign same sex marriages, treated the parties' marriage as a civil partnership under the Act.
¶ 36 The court's conclusion in Wilkinson is, of course, completely contrary to the Ontario Court of Appeal's conclusion in Halpern concerning Canadian values, public policy and the Charter's equality rights. Indeed, Canada's Civil Marriage Act codifies these very principles in its preamble, where it says, among other things:
WHEREAS only equal access to marriage for civil purposes would respect the right of couples of the same sex to equality without discrimination and civil union, as an institution other than marriage, would not offer them that equal access and would violate their human dignity, in breach of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms ...
AND WHEREAS in order to reflect values of tolerance, respect and equality consistent with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, access to marriage for civil purposes should be extended by legislation to couples of the same sex ...
¶ 37 By its statutory requirements in the UK, the parties' civil partnership is a "lawful union of two persons to the exclusion of all others." At first blush it falls into the definition of civil marriage under the Civil Marriage Act. It seems to me that to do anything other than recognize this particular civil partnership as a marriage would run contrary to the express values of Canadian society, expressed in both the case law, and the statute itself and would constitute impermissible discrimination.
¶ 38 But what about the arguments Mr. Gallardo and Canada raise?
¶ 39 Both Mr. Gallardo and Canada take the position that a civil partnership registered under the Civil Partnership Act cannot be a "marriage" because the UK does not consider it to be a marriage in law.
¶ 40 If Canada's position about the lex loci held, then surely the UK would have been bound in Wilkinson to recognize a valid Canadian same sex marriage as a "marriage", since it was a valid marriage according to the law of where it was celebrated. One of the reasons the court advanced in Wilkinson for failing to recognize "what might otherwise be an appropriate foreign rule of law" was that it would be against English public policy to do so. It seems to me the same argument holds here. An English law that makes a marriage other than between a man and a woman void, and another that creates a "separate but equal" system for same sex partners are clearly contrary to Canadian public policy and Charter values.
¶ 41 I recognize that the UK Civil Partnership Act has a specific provision in which it says valid foreign same sex marriages will be treated like civil partnerships in the UK. I see no reason why this civil partnership, a marriage in all but name, cannot be treated as a marriage in Canada, particularly when the parties chose to change their status to a status equivalent to married in the UK.
¶ 42 It is not, in my view, necessary for Parliament to legislate specifically to state that Canada will treat a UK civil partnership as a "marriage" in order for me to find it so. Turning again to Halpern, the court there said "In our view, 'marriage' does not have a constitutionally fixed meaning. Rather, like the term 'banking' in s. 91(5) and the phrase 'criminal law' in s. 91(27), the term 'marriage' as used in s. 91(26) of the Constitution Act, 1867 has the constitutional flexibility necessary to meet changing realties of Canadian society without the need for recourse to constitutional amendment procedures." [See Note 15 below] If constitutional amendments are unnecessary to define or redefine marriage, then surely a statutory amendment is unnecessary as well to include this civil partnership in the definition of marriage.
Note 15: Halpern at paragraph 46.
¶ 43 Halpern pointed out that one of the key components in analysing parties' rights is the issue of freedom of choice. One of the reasons the court found the former definition of marriage discriminatory was that gays and lesbians were denied the choice or whether to marry or not. The Civil Partnership Act does nothing to redress what we view as that discriminatory result. Given that the parties had no choice of whether or not to marry in the UK, and their only choice was this parallel method of changing their status, it seems to me that this particular relationship meets all the criteria for marriage. If I fail to recognize this union as a marriage, then discrimination will be perpetuated.
¶ 44 But what about the arguments concerning unintended consequences of such a finding, or the "floodgates" arguments?
¶ 45 Mr. Gallardo raises the spectre of unintended consequences if I were to declare this particular civil partnership a marriage. He points to the fact that, for example, both Nova Scotia and Quebec have registered civil partnership schemes. He suggests that if I find this civil partnership to be a "marriage", then those civil partnerships would also be captured in the definition of marriage. He goes further and says that, for example, Nova Scotia civil partners [See Note 16 below] would be treated as civil partners under the Civil Partnership Act if they moved to the UK. He suggests that if they then returned to Canada they would be considered married if they returned to Canada. He says this could have the unintended consequence of declaring parties who had no wish to be married as married.
Note 16: Nova Scotia has a legislative scheme for registering civil partnerships. The scheme is available to both same-sex and opposite-sex couples.
¶ 46 I do not see it this way. In this hypothetical example, the Nova Scotia civil partners would be treated as UK civil partners. Their partnership would not be transformed into a UK civil partnership; it would simply be "treated" as one. That of course could well have the unintended consequence of imposing more rights and responsibilities on the parties under UK law than they would have under Nova Scotia law. It would not, however, transform their relationship into a Canadian marriage if they were to return to Canada since their partnership would not truly be a UK civil partnership.
¶ 47 The fundamental difference is one of choice.
The question of choice: the autonomy principle
¶ 48 Both Mr. Gallardo and Canada point to the issue of freedom of choice, and raise this specifically as a part of their floodgates arguments. They say that parties must be left to choose how to order their affairs, and should not have other rights and obligations thrust upon them when they did not choose them. They rely on the reasoning of the Supreme Court of Canada in Nova Scotia (Attorney General) v. Walsh [See Note 17 below] to support this position. I disagree: Walsh is distinguishable.
Note 17: [2002] 4 S.C.R. 325, sometimes referred to as Walsh v. Bona.
¶ 49 In Walsh, the Supreme Court had to address the issue of whether excluding unmarried cohabiting opposite-sex couples from the definition of "spouse" in matrimonial property legislation was discriminatory. The court held there was no discrimination. It found that applying Nova Scotia marital property legislation only to married persons reflected the differences between unmarried cohabiting relationships and married relationships, and represented the fundamental personal autonomy and dignity of the individual.
¶ 50 The difference, of course, is that in Walsh the couple was an opposite sex couple and had the choice of whether to marry or not. They chose not to. The court respected this fundamental choice, and determined it should not impose married rights and responsibilities on them when they had not chosen to be married. Here, the parties had only the choice of civil partnership if they wished to change their status in the UK.
¶ 51 There is a fundamental difference between Canadian civil partnerships and those entered into under the UK Civil Partnership Act. In the UK only same-sex couples can enter into these civil partnerships, and in the UK only same-sex couples are not permitted to marry. The parties' only choice in the UK was to enter into their civil partnership if they wished to change their legal status from single persons to another status that in all ways is functionally equivalent to marriage.
¶ 52 Nova Scotia and Quebec both have provision for civil unions or civil partnerships. These are formal, registered relationships. They are open to both same- sex and opposite-sex couples. In Nova Scotia and Quebec, and indeed, throughout Canada, both same-sex and opposite-sex partners have a choice whether to marry or not. They may choose to marry. They may choose to cohabit. They may choose to enter into a registered civil partnership in some provinces. In Ontario there is no scheme of registered civil partnerships. Couples here may, however, choose to enter into cohabitation agreements which contractually set out their respective rights and responsibilities during their relationship. In Canada, all couples have a choice between marriage and civil partnerships. In the UK they do not.
¶ 53 Here, the parties chose a regime with all the rights and responsibilities of marriage. They deliberately chose to change their status from single to something functionally equivalent to marriage in the UK. In Ontario, the only regime with all the rights and responsibilities of marriage is marriage. Failing to recognize this civil partnership as a marriage would be to thwart the very choice the parties made. Recognizing this civil partnership as marriage would support the parties' freedom of choice and their autonomy.
¶ 54 As I see it, recognition of this civil partnership would extend only to a civil partnership sharing these particular characteristics; namely, I would limit recognition only to circumstances where same sex marriage is prohibited, and the state-authorized alternative, namely the civil partnership, is essentially identical to marriage except in name, and is restricted only to same sex couples.
¶ 55 But Mr. Gallardo and Canada say the parties could have married in Ontario when they moved back here. They suggest that since the parties chose not to, the court should not impose married status on them.
Free to marry in Ontario
¶ 56 Mr. Gallardo and Canada both point to the fact that the parties were free to marry in Ontario if they wished to be married spouses instead of civil partners. While this is true, Mr. Hincks' uncontradicted evidence is that he inquired in Toronto about the possibility of getting married here and was told there was no need, because as civil partners, he and Mr. Gallardo were considered already married. He said:
Well, I went to the Toronto City Hall to get information about doing a civil marriage at the City Hall and I asked whether or not it was necessary to do that if we were already in a UK civil partnership, and we were told that it wasn't necessary to do that because we would already be married as far as the registrar was concerned. [See Note 18 below]
Note 18: Cross-examination of W.T. Hincks taken 10 January 2012 at Question 70.
¶ 57 Whether what Mr. Hincks was told was true or not is irrelevant; Mr. Hincks relied on it as an accurate representation of his status.
¶ 58 What is interesting, of course, is that Mr. Gallardo must have considered the parties married as well, at least in February of 2010. After all, it was he who first commenced divorce proceedings in Ontario, although he later discontinued them.
¶ 59 There is another reason to reject the argument that the parties simply could have married in Ontario when they returned to live here. It bears on the issue of timing. Under the Family Law Act parties' property rights are affected by the date on which the parties married - that is, the date on which their legal status changed from single to married. The concept of equalization of net family property effectively results in parties sharing in the value of assets accumulated between the date of their marriage and the date they separated. Couples who marry in the UK, move to Ontario and seek equalization will have their marriage date as the operative date for the calculation, even though their legal status was changed in the UK.
¶ 60 If Mr. Gallardo and Canada are correct, then UK civil partners would not be able to rely on the date their legal status changed, but rather would have to go through another process, thus creating a different date. Under these circumstances, date of marriage deductions could be vastly different for UK civil partners than they would be for UK married partners. This would be so even though the Civil Partnership Act purports to create a parallel but equal system of rights and obligations for same sex partners and married partners.
¶ 61 I conclude that the potential option to marry in Ontario is not an answer to the problem, and would in fact perpetuate discrimination and unequal treatment that the Civil Partnership Act is apparently designed to eliminate.
¶ 62 Mr. Gallardo says that to recognize the parties' civil partnership as a marriage would encourage forum shopping, with parties attempting to "opt in" to more generous rights available to married spouses in Ontario.
¶ 63 While the argument has some merit, I note that forum shopping exists today among married spouses of whatever sexual orientation. It is not uncommon for there to be two jurisdictions with concurrent jurisdiction over the parties for divorce and corollary relief. For example, when a couple separates in Ontario, one of the parties might return to his or her birthplace in a foreign jurisdiction. Both that foreign jurisdiction and Canada could have divorce jurisdiction over the parties. One might prefer to commence proceedings in Ontario to obtain greater rights, while the other might prefer to commence in his or her home country, with different rights and obligations. In these not uncommon circumstances, forum shopping is hardly unique, and is not limited to same sex unions or civil partnerships.
¶ 64 I cannot see forum shopping as a reason to decide the parties' civil partnership cannot be a marriage.
¶ 65 But Mr. Gallardo and Canada say it is not necessary to recognize this civil union as a marriage because Mr. Hincks is not without a remedy. He has returned to the UK and could initiate dissolution proceedings there under the Civil Partnership Act to dissolve the civil partnership. He could claim financial relief under that statute. Does that make a difference?
Does Mr. Hincks have another remedy?
¶ 66 It is true that Mr. Hincks could pursue dissolution proceedings in the UK. The difference, of course, is that if these parties were an opposite sex couple, married in the UK, they would have the choice of whether to dissolve their union either in Canada under the Divorce Act, or in the UK under their divorce legislation. These parties are unable to do so, only because of their sexual orientation. In my view, this constitutes discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, which is prohibited under the equality provisions of the Charter. I therefore conclude it is irrelevant that Mr. Hincks has another remedy.
¶ 67 To this point, I have focused on the arguments Mr. Gallardo and Canada raise, but have not dealt with Ontario's particular arguments concerning the definition of "spouse" under the Family Law Act.
¶ 68 Ontario raises some compelling arguments about statutory interpretation, when considering the definition of "spouse" in section 1 of the Family Law Act. It suggests that the modern approach to statutory interpretation should result in the parties being recognized as spouses under section 1.
¶ 69 Section 1(1) of the Family Law Act defines "spouse" in the following way:
"spouse" means either of two persons who,
are married to each other, or
have together entered into a marriage that is voidable or void, in good faith on the part of a person relying on this clause to assert any right.
¶ 70 The Family Law Act goes on to provide, in section 1(2):
Polygamous marriages - In the definition of "spouse", a reference to marriage includes a marriage that is actually or potentially polygamous, if it was celebrated in a jurisdiction whose system of law recognizes it as valid.
¶ 71 Polygamous marriages are contrary to Canada's public policy. Nevertheless, under the Family Law Act we recognize parties to a polygamous marriage as "spouses" for all purposes under the Family Law Act.
¶ 72 Void marriages are not marriages at all, and yet the Family Law Act recognizes innocent parties to a void or voidable marriage as "spouses". Ontario argues that when one considers this expansive definition of married spouse under the Family Law Act, one should give the definition of "spouse" in section 1 of the Act a broad and liberal interpretation to capture relationships that are both formally and functionally equivalent to marriage within the scheme of the Family Law Act.
¶ 73 Ontario takes the position that the parties here undertook a formal event that changed their legal status from single to partner, while also living in a relationship that is "functionally equivalent to a married spouse under the Family Law Act, including the mutual expectation of an equitable division of family property upon dissolution of their relationship." [See Note 19 below] In support of this proposition, Ontario points to the expert evidence filed by the parties and Canada. The experts agree that a UK civil partnership provides equivalent rights and responsibilities to those which arise from marriage in English law, and is equivalent to marriage in all but name. These equivalent rights and responsibilities include not only the right to dissolution, but also to financial and property relief that is identical to that available to divorcing married spouses under UK law.
Note 19: Ontario's factum at paragraph 2.
¶ 74 After the UK enacted the Civil Partnership Act, it made consequential amendments to more than one hundred statutes to add the term "civil partner" to almost all references to "wife", "husband" or "spouse" in the laws of England and Wales. Thus, UK civil partners have equivalent legal rights and responsibilities to those provided to married couples under statute.
¶ 75 Ontario points to the "modern approach" to statutory interpretation when considering whether these civil partners should be found to be "spouses" under the Family Law Act. By this, it means that statutory interpretation cannot be founded only on the wording of the legislation. Instead, "the words of an Act are to be read in their entire context and in their grammatical and ordinary sense harmoniously with the scheme of the Act, the object of the Act, and the intention of Parliament." [See Note 20 below]
Note 20: Montreal (City) v. 2952-1366 Quebec Inc., [2005] 3 S.C.R. 141, and the cases referred to in it.
¶ 76 Ontario goes on to say that this approach is consistent with s. 64(1) of the Legislation Act, 2006 [See Note 21 below] which says: "An Act shall be interpreted as being remedial and shall be given such fair, large and liberal interpretation as best ensures the attainment of its objects." Where there is genuine ambiguity in the statute, that is, the provision at issue can be subject to differing but equally plausible interpretations, the presumption is that the interpretation that is consistent with the Charter shall prevail. [See Note 22 below]
Note 21: 2006, S.O. 2006, C. 21 Sched. F.
Note 22: Bell ExpressVu Limited Partnership v. Rex, [2002] 2 S.C.R. 559.
¶ 77 Ontario points out that the definition of "spouse" in s. 1 of the Family Law Act includes persons who have entered a void or voidable marriage in good faith. Void marriages are not marriages at all. By including parties to a void or voidable marriage in the definition of "spouses", the Family Law Act does not restrict the definition of "spouse" only to strictly legal valid marriages. Similarly, the Act recognizes parties to a polygamous marriage as spouses, if the marriage was celebrated in a jurisdiction where such marriages are valid. Again, even though polygamous marriages are contrary to the definition of marriage in Canada, the Act nevertheless recognizes such parties as "spouses".
¶ 78 Ontario suggests it would therefore be illogical to exclude this civil partnership from the definition of "spouse" when this same-sex union would be a legal marriage if performed in Ontario, while recognizing as spouses parties to foreign polygamous marriages that would not be legal marriages if performed in Ontario.
¶ 79 Ontario argues that an interpretation that would recognize these parties as "spouses" under s. 1 of the Family Law Act would be consistent with the objectives of the Act set out in its preamble. The objectives emphasize marriage as an economic partnership, equality between the spouses and an equitable settlement upon the "breakdown of the partnership".
¶ 80 When the parties entered into their civil partnerships they voluntarily chose to be governed by an equivalent statutory regime to the one applying to married spouses in the UK. They chose an economic partnership with equal rights and responsibilities to those of UK married spouses on the breakdown of their partnerships. Ontario has no mechanism for "same-sex civil partnerships" but rather a single statutory regime that applies equally to all married spouses, whether same-sex or opposite-sex. I agree with Ontario's argument that when one applies the modern approach of statutory interpretation to the definition of "spouse" in section 1 of the Family Law Act, and "broadly and liberally" construes it according to the objectives of the Act, these parties must be considered "spouses" under s. 1.
¶ 81 The parties entered into a civil partnership in the UK. They could not choose to get married in the UK because that country does not permit same sex couples to marry. That policy position runs contrary to Canadian public policy because Canadian law finds discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation prohibited under the Charter. Canadian law specifically holds that only equal access to marriage for civil purposes would respect same sex couples' right to equality without discrimination. Canadian law specifically holds that a civil union, as an institution other than marriage, would not offer same sex couples that equal access and would violate their human dignity, in breach of the Charter.
¶ 82 Failing to recognize this UK civil partnership as a marriage would perpetuate impermissible discrimination, primarily because in the UK these parties could not marry because of their sexual orientation, but had to enter into a civil partnership instead.
¶ 83 Their union is a lawful union under the laws of the UK. Their union is of two persons, to the exclusion of all others. In the simplest terms it meets the statutory definition of marriage in Canada. Because these parties could not marry in the UK, but had to enter into a civil partnership there instead, they have suffered discrimination on the basis of their sexual orientation.
¶ 84 In the particular circumstances of this civil partnership, where the parties were denied the choice to marry in the place where the union was celebrated I would perpetuate impermissible discrimination if I failed to recognize their civil partnership as a marriage.
¶ 85 For these reasons a declaratory order will issue declaring that the civil partnership entered into by the parties on October 21, 2009 in Hackney, London, United Kingdom, pursuant to the UK Civil Partnership Act is a "marriage" as defined by the Civil Marriage Act. A further order will issue declaring that the parties are "spouses" as defined by the Divorce Act and s. 1 of the Family Law Act.
¶ 86 As the parties agreed, there will be no order as to costs of this motion. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all counsel for their very thorough and helpful materials and submissions.
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Prior to purchasing stream access, please read the following two notifications.
**The Step Sing stream will be available with multiple bit rate options meaning there will be multiple connection speeds available to use, depending on your local network. Once you have accessed the live stream, you will automatically be connected at the optimum connection speed for your local network but you can change the connection speed at any time during the performance to either a higher or lower speed depending on the bit rate options available.
**The stream will be broadcast in Flash and can be viewed in multiple browsers including Firefox, Safari, Chrome, and Internet Explorer on a Mac or PC. Please note that iOS devices (iPhone, iPad, etc.) that do not support Flash will not be able to load the streaming content.
To purchase your Step Sing streaming access, click on the one day access for $12.00. In the next window, click Submit and then Submit again. Enter your email address and press Submit. Check your email for the validation code and enter this number in the next window; press Submit. Create a password in order to complete your account setup. Enter your credit card information and press Submit. Your purchase is now complete. Please note, streaming access for Step Sing is non-refundable.
To watch the stream, select the 'Paid? Login Here' tab in the player window. Enter your email address and password to access the stream. The Step Sing pre-show will begin at 6:30pm CST on Saturday, February 15th, 2013 with the live performances beginning at 7pm CST.
For technical support, please contact the Samford University Help Desk at 205-726-2662.
Download the Step Sing Program (5.3MB)

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Capitalism and socialism are somewhat opposing schools of thought in economics. The central arguments in the socialism vs. capitalism debate are about economic equality and the role of government. Socialists believe economic inequality is bad for society, and the government is responsible for reducing it via programs that benefit the poor (e.g., free public education, free or subsidized healthcare, social security for the elderly, higher taxes on the rich). On the other hand, capitalists believe that the government does not use economic resources as efficiently as private enterprises do, and therefore society is better off with the free market determining economic winners and losers.
The U.S. is widely considered the bastion of capitalism, and large parts of Scandinavia and Western Europe are considered socialist democracies. However, the truth is every developed country has some programs that are socialist.
An extreme form of socialism is communism (see Communism vs Socialism).
Comparison chart
Capitalism |
Socialism |
Ideas | Laissez-faire means to "let it be"; opposed to government intervention in economics because capitalists believe it introduces inefficiencies. A free market produces the best economic outcome for society. Govt. should not pick winners and losers. | All individuals should have access to basic articles of consumption and public goods to allow for self-actualization. Large-scale industries are collective efforts and thus the returns from these industries must benefit society as a whole. |
Religion | Permitted/Freedom of Religion | Freedom of religion, but usually promotes secularism. |
Economic System | Market-based economy combined with private or corporate ownership of the means of production. Goods and services are produced to make a profit, and this profit is reinvested into the economy to fuel economic growth. | The means of production are owned by public enterprises or cooperatives, and individuals are compensated based on the principle of individual contribution. Production may variously be coordinated through either economic planning or markets. |
Key Proponents | Adam Smith, David Ricardo, Milton Friedman, Fredrich Hayek, Ayn Rand, Murray Rothbard | Robert Owen, Pierre Leroux, Karl Marx, Fredrick Engels, John Stuart Mill, Albert Einstein, George Bernard Shaw, Thorstein Veblen, Emma Goldman. |
Philosophy | Capital (or the "means of production") is owned, operated, and traded for the purpose of generating profits for private owners or shareholders. Emphasis on individual profit rather than on workers or society as a whole. | From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution. Emphasis on profit being distributed among the society or workforce to complement individual wages/salaries. |
Political System | Can coexist with a variety of political systems, including dictatorship, democratic republic, anarchism, and direct democracy. | Can coexist with different political systems. Most socialists advocate participatory democracy, some (Social Democrats) advocate parliamentary democracy, and Marxist-Leninists advocate "Democratic centralism". |
Economic coordination | Relies principally on markets to determine investment, production and distribution decisions. Markets may be free-markets, regulated-markets, or may be combined with a degree of state-directed economic planning or planning within private companies. | Planned-Socialism relies principally on planning to determine investment and production decisions. Planning may be centralized or decentralized. Market-socialism relies on markets for allocating capital to different socially-owned enterprises. |
Private Property | Private property in capital goods is the dominant form of property. Public property and state property play a secondary role, and there might also be a limited number of collective property in the economy. | Two kinds of property, personal property, such as houses, clothing, etc. owned by the individual. Public property includes factories, and means of production owned by the state but with worker control. |
Social Structure | Classes exist based on their relationship to the means of production: the ruling class, or "capitalists", own shares of the means of production and derive their income in that way. In contrast, the working class is dependent on wages or salaries. | Class distinctions are diminished. |
Political movements | Classical liberalism, Social liberalism, Libertarianism, Neo-liberalism, Modern Social-Democracy, Anarcho-Capitalism | Democratic Socialism, Communism, Libertarian Socialism, Anarchism, Syndicalism. |
Key elements | The accumulation of capital drives economic activity - the need to continuously produce profits and reinvest this profit into the economy. "Production for profit": useful goods and services are a byproduct of pursuing profit. | Economic activity and production especially are adjusted to meet human needs and economic demands. "Production for use": useful goods and services are produced specifically for their usefulness. |
Definition | A theory or system of social organization based on the free market and privatization in which ownership is ascribed to the individual persons. | A theory or system of social organization based on the holding of most property in common, with actual ownership ascribed to the workers. |
Way of Change | Fast change within the system. In theory, the relationship between buyer and seller (the market) is what fuels what is produced. Government can change rules of conduct/business practices through regulation or ease of regulations. | Workers in a Socialist-state are the agent of change rather than any market or desire on the part of consumers. Change by the workers can be swift or slow, depending on change in ideology or even whim. |
Ownership structure | The means of production are privately-owned and operated for a private profit. This drives incentives for producers to engage in economic activity. | The means of production are socially-owned with the surplus value produced accruing to either all of society (in Public-ownership models) or to all the employee-members of the enterprise (in Cooperative-ownership models). |
Free Choice | All individuals make decisions for themselves. People will make the best decisions because they must live with the consequences of their actions. | All choices, including education, religion, employment and marriage, are up to the individual. All health care and education is provided through a socialized system funded by taxation. Citizens have free and equal access. |
Examples | The modern world economy operates largely according to the principles of capitalism. The UK, US, and Hong Kong are mostly capitalist. Singapore is an example of state capitalism. | Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR): Although the actual categorization of the USSR's economic system is in dispute, it is often considered to be a form of centrally-planned socialism. |
Discrimination | Government does not discriminate based on race, color, or other arbitrary classification. | The people are considered equal, laws are made when necessary to protect people from discrimination. |
Contents: Capitalism vs Socialism
One of the central arguments in economics, especially in the socialism vs. capitalism debate, is the role of the government. A capitalist system is based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods or services for profit. A socialist system is characterized by social ownership of the means of production, e.g., cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership, or autonomous state enterprises.
Proponents of capitalism espouse competitive and free markets and voluntary exchanges (instead of the forced exchange of labor or goods). Socialists advocate greater government involvement, but the opinions of supporters differ in terms of types of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets versus planning, how management is to be organised within economic enterprises, and the role of the state in regulating businesses to ensure fairness.
Criticisms of Socialism and Capitalism
Criticisms of Capitalism
Critics argue that capitalism is associated with unfair and inefficient distribution of wealth and power, a tendency toward market monopolies or oligopolies (and government by oligarchy); imperialism; counter-revolutionary wars; various forms of economic and cultural exploitation; repression of workers and trade unionists; and phenomena such as social alienation, inequality, unemployment, and economic instability. Critics have argued that there is an inherent tendency towards oligopolistic structures when laissez-faire principles are combined with capitalistic private property. Capitalism is regarded by many socialists to be irrational, in that production and direction of the economy is unplanned, creating many inconsistencies and internal contradictions.
Vladimir Lenin, a communist who served as head of the Russian government from 1917 to 1922, believed it was inevitable that monopolistic capitalism would resort to using state military power abroad to defend its interests. Economist Branko Horvat stated, "It is now well known that capitalist development leads to the concentration of capital, employment and power. It is somewhat less known that it leads to the almost complete destruction of economic freedom." Southern Methodist University Economics Professor Ravi Batra argues that excessive income and wealth inequalities are a fundamental cause of financial crisis and economic depression, which will lead to the collapse of capitalism and the emergence of a new social order.
Environmentalists have argued that capitalism requires continual economic growth and will inevitably deplete the finite natural resources of the earth. Murray Bookchin has argued that capitalist production externalizes environmental costs to all of society, and is unable to adequately mitigate its impact upon ecosystems and the biosphere at large. Labor historians and scholars, such as Immanuel Wallerstein, Tom Brass and latterly Marcel van der Linden, have argued that unfree labor — by slaves, indentured servants, prisoners, and other coerced persons — is compatible with capitalist relations.
Many religions have criticized or opposed specific elements of capitalism; traditional Judaism, Christianity, and Islam forbid lending money at interest, although methods of Islamic banking have been developed. Christianity has been a source of both praise and criticism for capitalism, particularly its materialist aspects.
Criticisms of Socialism
Criticisms of socialism range from claims that socialist economic and political models are inefficient or incompatible with civil liberties to condemnation of specific socialist states. There is much focus on the economic performance and human rights records of Communist states, although there is debate over the categorization of such states as socialist.
In the economic calculation debate, classical liberal Friedrich Hayek argued that a socialist command economy could not adequately transmit information about prices and productive quotas due to the lack of a price mechanism, and as a result it could not make rational economic decisions. Ludwig von Mises argued that a socialist economy was not possible at all, because of the impossibility of rational pricing of capital goods in a socialist economy since the state is the only owner of the capital goods. Hayek further argued that the social control over distribution of wealth and private property advocated by socialists cannot be achieved without reduced prosperity for the general populace, and a loss of political and economic freedoms.
Hayek's views were echoed by Winston Churchill in an electoral broadcast prior to the British general election of 1945:
a socialist policy is abhorrent to the British ideas of freedom. Socialism is inseparably interwoven with totalitarianism and the object worship of the state. It will prescribe for every one where they are to work, what they are to work at, where they may go and what they may say. Socialism is an attack on the right to breathe freely. No socialist system can be established without a political police. They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance.
Further Reading
There are some good books on Capitalism and Socialism available for further reading on Amazon.com:


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N Products
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HBMT Custom Line
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Welcome to the Humming Bird Model Trains Web site. We offer a full line of HO and N scale model trains (brass and plastic), sets and accessories along with a variety of model and prototype books through our mail order site. All of our locomotives, rolling stock, sets and building kits are discounted from MSRP, with a few exceptions (Ex. Humming Bird Custom Line, Pacific Western Rail Products and Yesteryear Models). We carry all of the traditional brand names of Accurail, Athearn, Atlas, Bachman (Spectrum), Branchline, Broadway Limited Imports, Bowser, Champion Decals, Con-Cor, Design Preservation Models, Digitrax, Four Ways West, Intermountain Railway, IHC, Kadee, Kalmbach Publishing, Kato, Life-Like, (Heritage and Proto Series), Micro-Engineering, Micro-Trains, Midwest Products Co, Inc, Model Rectifier Corp (MRC), Morning Sun Books, Overland Models, Precision Scale Brass, Railway Classics, Red Caboose, Richmond Controls, Rivarossi, Rix Products, Roundhouse, Smokey Valley Railroad Products, Stewart Hobbies, Tower 55, TLC Publishing, Woodland Scenics and all products listed with Wm. K. Walthers. We also carry Pacific Western Rail Products, Yesteryear Models, our own Humming Bird Custom Line products and many others.
Click on the events link to check for upcoming releases. Also, please be aware that many items produced now are in short supply and we cannot guarantee that every item is in stock at all times. When a limited run item sells out, we do our best to change the site as quickly as possible. With all of the products on the market today, we do our best to keep this site current with our stock on a weekly basis. With the large availability of HO and N products, it is impossible for us to stock and list everything that every supplier carries. If there is a product you are interested in but do not see it here, please contact us for availability. If we do not have the product, we will do our best to locate it as quickly as possible as we have many resources within the industry.
Enjoy the site and thank you for visiting Humming Bird Model Trains.
Please click on Events for upcoming shows!!!


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Fillers come in all types and, depending on the site of injection, each one offers distinct advantages. In general, fillers are used within the face to improve deep wrinkle lines or folds that arise as we age. They are therefore useful in giving us a more youthful appearance.
A heart warming testimonial from "K":
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Sculptra® Aesthetic is an important part of our lineup of injectable anti-aging facial skin treatments.
Sculptra reshapes the face by replacing collagen that has been lost in the aging process. It provides gradual, natural-looking improvement in facial fullness with a reduction of lines in wrinkles. It can be used to reverse the downward droop that accompanies aging and to treat the deep skin folds between the nose and mouth, sometimes called 'smile lines,' and chin wrinkles.
Unlike other injectable 'filler' treatments Sculptra is subtle, working gradually over a period of a few weeks, so it gives you a more natural appearance without giving away the fact that you had something done.
An injectable polylactic acid, Sculptra has been specially developed to prompt the body to create new layers of collagen. Polylactic acid is a biocompatible and biodegradable form of lactic acid, which occurs naturally in the body. Since the product is immunologically inert and non-allergenic, allergy testing is not required before treatment with Sculptra.
Treatment with Sculptra consists of three or four injections over a period of approximately three months. The effects can last for up to two years.
Hyaluronic fillers–Restylane®/Perlane®/Juvederm®
Restylane, Perlane and Juvederm are non-animal based hyaluronic dermal fillers which provide patients with restored skin volume and fullness while correcting moderate to deep facial wrinkles and folds. Because they are composed of hyaluronic acid, a substance found naturally in the human body, these fillers requires no allergy test prior to treatment. It has been proven safe and effective for more than a decade.
How do hyaluronic fillers work?
Hyaluronic fillers use the body's own moisture to maintain its shape, providing long- lasting, natural-looking results. As the acid in hyaluronic fillers begin to degrade over time, each molecule binds to more and more water in order to produce a similar amount of volume, even as the amount of dermal filler is reduced. The result? The effects of these fillers may last up to six months, sometimes even longer.
Give us a call to set up a free consultation (910)762-1070.


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Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 7:13pm
Violent offenders, including sex offenders, may soon be moving to Otero County.
According to the New Mexico Department of Corrections, nearly 300-offenders may be transferred to the Otero County Facility as soon as next month in order to save money and provide better treatment to sex offenders.
The Albuquerque Journal reports that lawmakers are in doubt about putting sex offenders inside a county jail.
New Mexico prison officials say they are confident it will be secure.
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I purchased a NIB Thunder 380 last October from a local dealer. During my first visit to the range, the trigger failed after about 50 rounds. I took it home, cleaned it, and when I removed the right grip noticed the disconnector spring had popped of the disconnector. I re-seated it, and took it back to the range. Second time at the range, trigger failed to function after about 50 rounds. Again cleaned it and noted the disconnector spring had popped off again. Reseated it and worked the trigger a few times. I noticed the spring snagged or hung-up on a small burr or defect when trigger was half-depressed. My dealer sent it to Reynerson's in LA at his cost for repairs.
Got it back a few weeks ago, and was finally able to return to the range yesterday. Ran 150 rounds through it with no trigger issues. Did have some major feed issues with one brand of ammo, but when I switched brands the last 100 shots were incident free. However when i got home and cleaned the pistol, I noticed a piece of the magazine bottom (plastic) had cracked and is about to fall off. Note that I DO NOT slam the magazine into the grip when reloading.
This is my first handgun purchase. I also have my grandfathers circa 1928 1911M1 Colt 45 ACP, and have ran over 800 rounds through it with NO malfunctions. While I like the feel, size and accuracy of the T380, I am not confident that it will be there in a pinch if I ever really need it to be. A couple questions:
1. Are there quality issues with recent production 380's, or is it me? Mine was manufactured this past summer.
2. It is still covered by the 1 year warranty. Can I ship just the magazine back for repair/replacement, or does the entire pistol need to be returned?
3. I gather shipping handguns is a tricky matter without a FFL. Anyone have helpful hints for this?
Mike in MO


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Most Popular Articles
Products & Newsletters
Tips on rack mounting, RE-20, studio head room, and tape machine maintenance
Remote rack mounting
With the new year comes the time to gear up for remote season. Rack mounting equipment is convenient, but when it comes time to ship that rack the mounting will not hold up well to shock and stress. On many of my remotes, I need to mount gear originally intended for desk top use in a rack. Many manufacturers make adapter kits, but many of them are of poor design and often will not survive more than one trip. The photo at right shows a desktop distribution amplifier that I mounted to a Middle Atlantic 2RU rack shelf. What is different is the original rubber feet on the amplifier (which have through holes in them) act as bushings (similar to the way a car's engine is mounted). I have found this to be the only way to mount these particular amplifiers. And experience has found this method to outlast the manufacturers accessory rack mount.
From the Tech Tips Mailbag
From Minnesota, DH writes a suggestion to help keep a 6-inch Atlas desk mic stand steady when it is holding an RE-20. DH removes the three rubber feet from the bottom of the stand base and glues an anti-slip rubber mat to the bottom. After the adhesive dries (he suggests Starbrite liquid electrical tape), he uses a utility knife around the base so the rubber mat is not visible. It appears to us that is not only an improvement for steadiness but also an improvement acoustically — the rubber mat probably helps keep rumble from the table out of the mix.
DH should also be aware that Electro-Voice has made several different mounting schemes for the RE-20. The mount shown in Figure 1 is the preferred one for mounting on a short desktop stand. The "cage" mounting (the 309A) is meant to be suspended from a boom. EV, AKG, Shure and most other mic manufacturers maintain on-line parts lists. Consult them if you run into mics you can't control. You probably don't have the right parts.
Studio head room
No matter how many times we measure an empty studio before construction, and even though we have CAD programs that can calculate clearances, there always seems to be a head room issue. Not electronic, but a physical one with hanging speakers. And more often than not, either one of the talent using that room or a guest will not fit below the speakers. For one solution, don't think industrial, think preschool. Cardinal Gates is a specialty manufacturer of childproofing accessories. The company also has an excellent speaker bumper. It is called a Corner Cushion, and is available in several colors. In addition, the company manufactures a rubber moulding that can cushion soft edges of any cabinet or other surface that juts out in the way.
Tape machine maintenance
I discussed analog tape machine maintenance in the last two issues, and a few readers have e-mailed to ask about sources for replacement rubber pinch rollers. I suggest Terry's Rubber Rollers. Terry can rebuilt just about any pinch roller or idler wheel (such as those used in a QRK or Russco turntable) and he has on-the-shelf replacements for many of the professional tape machines such as Otari and Studer. For cart machines, a suitable replacement for the ITC Delta and 99 machines is available from McMaster-Carr. The Delta roller is part number 2483K12.
Cardinal Gates
Terry's Rubber Rollers
Do you have a tech tip? Send it to us at firstname.lastname@example.com.
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Added To Cart
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Items in Cart: 5
SET INCLUDES: Sexy Forever Recipe Book Somersize Appetizers Book Somersize Cocktail Book All Natural Somersweet Baking Blend - 16 oz 50 All Natural Somersweet Packets - 1g each 9" Serving Tray 16 oz Stainless Steel Martini Shaker
WHO IT IS FOR: Get ready for the holiday season with this collection of items from Suzanne to throw a fabulous, festive party!
Somersize Appetizers Book "Somersize Appetizers" is a beautiful book with dazzling photos you'll find recipes for thirty scintillating starters to tantalize your taste buds at every occasion. These hors d'oeurves will heat up any cocktail hour with creative innovations like Mini-Burgers with Gorgonzola and Caramelized Onion, Curried Lamb Skewers with Mint-Cilantro Chili Paste, Wild Mushroom Risotto in Mushroom Caps, Grilled Scallops Wrapped in Prosciutto and so many more. Whether it's tasty finger foods or elegant first courses, Somersize Appetizers are sure to make your next party, family gathering, or evening at home truly unforgettable! The included polished serving tray will provide a beautiful presentation.
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Made in the United States.
Please view the above tab for ingredient information.
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*All Natural SomerSweet Baking Blend has not been tested as a replacement for brown sugar.
All Natural SomerSweet Baking Blend Click here for ingredient list and nutrition facts.
All Natural SomerSweet Packets Click here for ingredient list and nutrition facts.


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Welcome to University Foreign Car - The Affordable Alternative
For Volvo Repair & Service in St Louis!
University Foreign Car offers Dealer level Volvo repair at independent Volvo shop pricing! No other Volvo shop in St Louis offers a better value when you consider both price and expertise. We strive to make Volvo ownership affordable. Although we specialize in Volvo, we also service many other European and Japanese makes such as Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Lexus, Infinity, & Honda. If you have a family member who has a domestic vehicle, we'll be glad to service and repair their vehicle as well! We offer every possible service and repair, bumper to bumper including the following:
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Transmission Repair | Windshield Replacement |
Electrical System & Batteries | Side & Rear Auto Glass Replacement |
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"I also was concerned about adding the olive oil but did it anyway. Next time I\'ll leave it out and see what happens. The flavor was very good and it smelled wonderful while it was in the oven. Next time I\'ll use it for the base of a frittata."
"I put the 1 tablespoon butter, the sugar, cinnamon, nuts and raisin (or dried sweet cherries) in the food processor and mixed them altogether. The first batch I used all 4 T. of the butter, which was too much and the filling oozed out when baking. Backed off the amount of butter, since there is so much in the dough, you probably won't miss it. I d..."
"I made this for a friend's birthday present, he loves ketchup. He loved this recipe and has returned to jar to me already for a refill. The only thing I did differently was to run it through the Foley mill using the "fine" disk. This took out the skin and seeds. I also didn't use the entire 1/4 cup chipotle. That would be WAY too hot for me. Chipo..."
"Even my 31 year told son, who doesn't like sauces on anything, ate three helpings of this. I forgot to add the pine nuts, even after I had toasted them so I'll save them for next time. They would have added a different texture to the entire dish but I didn't remember them until after we all ate, so we obviously didn't miss them. Great recipe. I'll..."
"It's rhubarb time here so I went looking for a recipe. This is very good. I also added a chopped up apple, just because it was in the drawer. If you want the sauce thicker in this recipe, you might try adding a little tapioca or cornstarch to thicken. Very good without, however."
"Even though this bread is not highly flavored it is still quite delicious and easy to make. I made short work of the rolling out process by using my pasta attachment on my Kitchenaide mixer. I'm teaming the bread up with Spiced Sweet Roasted Red Pepper & Feta Hummus for a party tonight."
"I made this recipe exactly as stated up to the point of adding 1 1/2 cups of cream. I started with 1/2 cup and decided that was enough for us. A delicious soup and with our temperature hovering around zero yesterday, it was very comforting. I'm going to stretch the leftovers with a little more stock, another can of tomatoes and maybe another 1/2 c..."
"This recipe has great flavor! If you didn't know what was in it, you would be guessing the whole time you are eating.The instructions call for adding onions but there were none in the list of ingredients so I just sliced up an onion. I also baked it in the oven at 300 degrees for 4 hours.My leftovers will be the basis for some great beef and noo..."


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Mon, Apr 18, 11 at 22:51
Does anyone have experience with creeping fig in climates like zone 5b? We recently bought a house in Michigan, outside of Detroit, which has a very ugly chain link fence around the backyard. We need the fence to keep our dog in, and replacing it is far too expensive, so I'm hoping to plant some vines to cover it up. After a lot of searching on this site and others, it seems creeping fig would give me the look I'm going for. My concern is that the fence is on our property line, and I imagine the neighbors wouldn't like their lawn and/or house swallowed up! If anyone could tell me whether they think this will be a problem or not, I would be greatly appreciative. Also, any other vine suggestions would be welcome.
I'm basically looking for a vine that will look good and provide decent coverage for as much of the year as possible. I do not need flowers. I have no problem keeping it trimmed and orderly on my side of the fence, but have no access to the neighbor's side, and don't want to be the evil neighbor! Our neighbor does not have any plantings on their side of the fence to be grabbed onto or choked out, just lawn. Thanks! |
Follow-Up Postings:
No chance of swallowing the neighbours. Creeping fig won't survive the winter in your climate. |
Shoot, I completely overlooked that, I could have sworn I saw some people growing it in colder climes. Oh well! How about a native honeysuckle? Any other suggestions? |
- Posted by david_74012 OK 7 (My Page) on Tue, Apr 19, 11 at 22:57
Why not ask the neighbors if it would bother them. They may think the fence is as ugly as you think it is, and encourage you to spend your own dime to make it look nicer. David |
The neighbors would love to see the fence hidden, but don't want to do any real work to maintain it, and can't/won't chip in for a new fence. They know nothing about plants, so they are trusting me to pick something they'll be able to handle. I am thinking that native honeysuckle may fit the bill. Anyone see downsides to this plant? |
- Posted by butterfly4u 8 (My Page) on Fri, Apr 22, 11 at 11:57
Steelglow, How big is the fence? Do you think you could afford a reed or inexpensive bamboo fence to cover it up? You just wire it right onto your chain link fence, it's easy. Check at big box stores and online for one of those fences. I had native honeysuckle, it was beautiful coverage for 3 years, I had to move, but my neighbor, like yours with just lawn, was so sweet and allowed me to trim the vine on her side when ever I needed to. We were friends. THe vine will grow towards the sun, and if the sun comes from your neighbors side, it will grow that way. If you don't want your neighbor upset about the vine hanging a couple feet over onto his side, opt for the reed fence, and plant shrubs in front of it on your side. But, if you don't mind trimming it, yes, it is a good privacy screen and will grow rather quickly for you. Train it onto the fence, they don't twine like other vines. Good Luck! |
- Posted by david_74012 OK 7 (My Page) on Sat, Apr 23, 11 at 9:00
Even tho the neighbors won't chip in for a new fence, or help maintain the vines it seems you have plenty of freedom to do what you like with the fence. Maintain both sides yourself. Also, fence companies make slats to slide into chain link fences. These come in different colors. Remove the slats as the vines grow and cover the fence. May seem like you are putting lipstick on a pig, but vines do seem to make old fences look good. |
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Model Number | MARUMAN HL300H |
Weight | 11.1 ounces |
January 9, 2013
Smooth but strange with...
Smooth but strange with fountain inks: bleeds yet slow to absorb so smears and
I got the 5-pack of this paper and the binder from Maruman, both expensive propositions. The paper is very smooth and attractive, and the 20-hole format is very stable; however, my experience with three different Noodler's inks has been poor. With all of them, my writing bleeds; with the red and the blue, it takes a while to be absorbed into the paper, which causes transferring to adjacent pages, which makes it a pain to use. Takes the pen reasonably well, though maybe even too smooth such that there is not quite enough bite for the pens I use (F to EF nibs from Sailor, Pilot, Lamy). 1 person found this helpful
February 8, 2013
I use this paper all...
Verified Purchase
I use this paper all the time, with various fountain pen inks, mostly Namiki
Iroshizuku (various colors) and Sailor Ultramarine. No problems at all with
smearing or bleed through. I don't understand why the other reviewer saw this,
because I certainly have not.


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CM300W - Cocoa Latte
All available parts for this model number are listed on this page.
We are moving our warehouse to better serve you and are not able to ship replacement parts
orders at this time. Please check back the week of January 19th to place an order.
We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience.
This product is currently under voluntary recall. Please CLICK HERE for more information.
If you have already received your replacement container and need to order parts, please call 1-866-290-1851
Monday through Thursday 8am-4:30pm or Friday 8:30am-4pm CST for assistance.


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Results 1 to 5 of 9
Thread: Narrowed down our list!
May 8th, 2013 10:08 PM #1Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Posts
- 41
Narrowed down our list!
So, I posted a thread a while ago about naming our fourth daughter. We have narrowed down our list. I would love opinions and suggestions for alternatives would also be appreciated! Just to refresh everyones memory, we already have 3 daughters named Isabell, Delilah and Piper. Our narrowed down list is:
Lydia Diane or Grace
Arianna Noel or Diane
Aria Noel or Lee
Georgia Ann or Grace
Felicity Diane or Amanda
Allison Noel or Grace
Harmony Noel
Karis Noel or Amanda
Fiona Diane or Grace
Finley Noel or Amanda
Lydia, Aria, Arianna and Georgia are my faves. My husband likes Harmony, I am not sure about it because our last name starts with an H, so I think it might be a little much. I am glad we have narrowed it down quite a bit, but I am still feeling overwhelmed!
Amanda, Diane and Noel are all from my husband's family. Our daughter Piper has a middle name from my family. Georgia is also from his family, so Ann is from mine. Lee actually comes from both families. Grace is just a name that I like. I think it's pretty.my husband also likes the middle name Camille. Any opinions or suggestions would be appreciated!
May 8th, 2013 10:32 PM #3*Magnolia Alice ( Noli) / Evangeline Violet (Eh-vee)/ Adelaide Clover (Laidy)/ Athena Florence (Attie)/
Genevieve Winola (Vivi)/ Georgiana Marion (Gigi)/ Eugenie Marigold/Ottiline Hattie ( Tillie)*
*Osias Grey (Si)/Augusten Grey (Auggie)/Thatcher Hawthorne/ Ignatius Wesley (Iggy)/Hawthorne Flynn (Hawk)/
Beauregard August (Beau) /Fennec Inigo (Fenn)/Hugo Bosworth *
May 8th, 2013 10:44 PM #5Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Posts
- 41
May 8th, 2013 11:54 PM #7Senior Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Posts
- 1,242
Mom to Alexander Patrick (11), Madelyn Esther (8), Genevieve Susan (3), and Theodore James (stillborn at 37 weeks on February 3, 2014). Expecting #5 (a girl!) in May 2015.
Boys: Everett, Sebastian, Augustus, Samuel, Abraham, Elias, Julian, Silas, Nicholas, Desmond, Jasper, Ezekiel
Girls: Bridget, Felicity, Elizabeth, Penelope, Leona, Ophelia, Elodie, Elysia, Callista, Miriam, Isabelle, Delilah
Vote on my long list! http://www.babynames.com/namelist/9844996
May 9th, 2013 02:27 AM #9Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
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- 41
Thanks! Me too Piper's middle name is the same as mine and my mother's


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Always on duty, ready to serve your every need. The 2015 Tahoe PPV is equipped with a number of standard features that help you get the job done. Fitted with a Gen V engine that delivers impressive power and performance, the Tahoe Police Vehicle comes standard with safety features such as Rear Park Assist, Rear-Vision Camera System, and the Driver Alert Package. This all-new and improved version provides all the safety, comfort, and technology you need on the job.
With a body on frame that is durable and easy to maintain, the Tahoe PPV is a full-size SUV that has plenty of space for you and all your gear. Available with the 2WD Package and the 4WD package, both Packages include conveniences such as an auxiliary battery for police electrical equipment and a trailer hitch with wiring. The Tahoe PPV has a variety of features that make it the perfect partner for your work.


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(based on 88 reviews)
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How convenient!!
By dory
from Ga
About Me Casual Cook
Comments about Mini Measuring Cup:
It really comes in handy. Easy to read. We all love it.
Just use one measuring item for a recipe
By No nickname
from San Diego, CA
About Me Avid Cook
Great for measuring small amounts and it makes it unnecessary to bring out other measuring items (can be rinsed out and reused for the same recipe).
Love this. So easy to measure
By Judes
from Algoma, WI
Gave as a gift and they loved it. Easy to measure multiple teaspoons
Pretty Nifty!
By Dordy
from Iuka, Ms.
This measuring glass is so much easier than using measuring spoons. I really enjoy using this. Especially with all the Christmas baking I do. This is one of the best buys I have ever made!
I think its pretty cool
By Cowboy Fan
from LA,CA
Its real good for measuring couch medicine
(1 of 1 customers found this review helpful)
nice idea for food prep
By deb4325
from north central panhandle Florida
I really like to get all my ingredients gathered and measured out before I begin a recipe. This will be great for that.
Awesome Tool - Extremely Handy!!!
By Suz
from Falmouth, Me
Ability to measure tsps or tblsps with out the normal overrun of measuring spoons.
Nice Little Measuring Cup!
By gpeach
from San Diego
Very Convenient Tool!
Exactly what i needed
By Anng
from San Jose, CA
In complicated recipes, i can pre fill several for quick addition. Easy to read, heavy duty, dishwasher safe. A good product to have in yourkitchen.
Much easier to add liquids
By Susique
from Ohio
I used this to measure vanilla . I didn't,t have to worry about spilling like you do with a teaspoon.


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VUEWorks, Inc.
based in Orlando, FLORIDA (USA)
VUEWorks is dedicated to providing scalable, flexible work and asset management software and related services for any organization, in any industry, that wants to manage infrastructure assets more cost effectively. VUEWorks operates on top of ArcGIS Server, includes a hierarchical facility manager, and works entirely through a web browser.
Desarrollos Ecológicos e Industriales S.A. (DEISA)
based in Hospitalet de Llobregat,, SPAIN
deisa is an Engineering specialized in treatment and sewage of water Deisa is currently a member of Systems and Technology Business Unit of Comsa Emte group.Specialized in process and drinking and industrial water treatment, urban and industrial wastewater treatment, advanced chemical oxidation processes, water regeneration, Deisa develops turnkey projects including ...
JT Environmental Consulting
based in Elmhurst, ILLINOIS (USA)
JT Environmental Consulting has been assisting e-waste organizations to become certified to e-Stewards, ISO 9001, ISO 14001, NAID AAA, OHSAS 18001, RIOS and R2 throughout the country for over 10 years. JT`s professional and qualified consultants provide top notch consultation that can suit any need. The company`s experience spans the auditing, energy, environmental, ...
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Microtrac strives to provide the world with Innovative, Reliable, and Repeatable particle analysis instrumentation.Microtrac's instruments deliver insight and solutions to the complex product and process problems a company may experience.
Baker Botts L.L.P
based in Washington, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA (USA)
Baker Botts L.L.P., dating from 1840, is a leading international law firm with offices in Abu Dhabi, Austin, Beijing, Dallas, Dubai, Hong Kong, Houston, London, Moscow, New York, Palo Alto, Riyadh and Washington, D.C.. With approximately 750 lawyers, Baker Botts provides a full range of legal services to international, national and regional clients.
SHE Software Limited
based in East Kilbride, UNITED KINGDOM
UK Based, SHE Software Ltd supply and deliver `SHE Enterprise` an industry leading Low Risk product: Health & Safety Management Solution. We work with you on your project timescale, implementing a ready to use system on time, with a high return on value.
based in Oakland, CALIFORNIA (USA)
Vintara is the leading provider of Web-based enterprise process management solutions and services. Vintara has a proven track record of helping the enterprise successfully prepare for and cost-effectively maintain compliance with a range of domestic and internationally recognized standards, including the ISO series, OHSAS standards, FDA regulations, Sarbanes-Oxley Act, ...
Environmental Data Management, LLC (EDM)
based in Scottsdale, ARIZONA (USA)
EDM is in the business of helping regulated companies gain control of their compliance and operational commitments through the delivery of easy to buy, easy to deploy and easy to use software tools that allow you to rest easy knowing your compliance requirements are fulfilled. Our line of Comm-Trac™ products is designed to fit the needs of a virtually any size operation, ...
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based in Derby, UNITED KINGDOM
Accredited by UKAS (United Kingdom Accreditation Service) to provide certification of environmental management systems to the ISO 14001 Standard. RIQC auditors have extensive industry experience and technical expertise, allowing them to perform a valuable review of your environmental impacts, risks and remediation factors, when assessing your EMS for ISO 14001 ...
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based in Rochester, UNITED KINGDOM
SES provides a total environmental service to our clients. Focusing on the waste supply chain, we undertake waste audits to identify the most cost-effective solutions for reducing waste and scrapped products. This most often results in real savings within the first year. Once waste has been reduced SES can then install an ISO14001 Environmental Management System to help ...


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Follow Us
The U.S. Women's National Team takes on China Wednesday, Dec. 12, at BBVA Compass Stadium in Houston. The match is part of the Fan Tribute Tour, presented by Panasonic, and will kick off at 7:30 p.m. Tickets are still available; click the link below to purchase your tickets today. VISA is the preferred payment card of U.S. Soccer.
The match in Houston, tickets go on sale to the general public Friday, Nov. 16, at 10 a.m. CT through ussoccer.com, by calling 1-888-929-7849, and at the BBVA Compass Stadium ticket office (open Monday-Friday, 9 a.m. to 6 p.m.). For the match in Houston, the Visa advance sale begins at ussoccer.com on Thursday, Nov. 15, at 10 a.m. CT and runs until Friday, Nov. 16, at 8 a.m. CT


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As expected, the European Commission today presented its "new" draft proposal for a Council Directive implementing a financial transaction tax (FTT) in 11 countries. The draft is largely the same as the original proposal released in September 2011 but contains some important changes. The draft Directive continues to have a very broad scope and will impact both EU and non-EU financial institutions. The cost of the tax, coupled with the major operational changes that will be required to comply with the regime, mean that the EU FTT will result in significant cost for financial institutions and their clients. Outside of the 11 countries who have formally joined the Enhanced Cooperation on FTT, we believe that 7 other countries already operate some form of FTT. We believe that FTT, including eventually the 11 states, will be a part of the fiscal landscape in the future. Given this, and the challenges of making the operational changes to comply with a new EU FTT, financial institutions need to be working on a strategy and implementation plan as soon as possible. Financial Services institutions outside of the EU will be liable to pay the FTT in relation to certain transactions.
The new proposal is largely based on the Commission's September 2011 proposal. It is similarly very wide in scope, both in terms of the types of transactions in scope and the financial instruments in scope. The proposal retains the approach of applying the tax to transactions involving a financial institution and placing the liability for the tax on all financial institutions involved in a transaction.
However, as expected, some changes were made to the September 2011 draft. The principal changes are as follows:


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Cooper Vision Contact Lenses
CooperVision is one of the biggest manufacturers of soft contact lenses. You can trust them to always deliver first-class products. Enjoy crisp vision and remarkable comfort from CooperVision daily, weekly or monthly wear contacts. Their line includes Proclear 1 Day 90 Pack, Encore Toric (Vertex Toric) and Biofinity. With Cooper Vision, you can enjoy superior comfort no matter which lenses you choose. The product line ranges from toric lenses to color lenses so you really do have your pick. Cooper Vision commonly produces soft contact lenses accompanied with specific technologies that allow them to maintain a great amount of moisture for exceptional comfort. Ask your eye doctor to see if any of the Cooper Vision contact lenses are a good fit for you. Before you forget, all of our contacts have a 366 day return policy if their boxes aren't open - we'll even pay for return shipping! You really have to lose. Can't find the product you're looking for? Check out our other popular contact lens manufacturers like Johnson&Johnson and CIBA Vision.


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College of Law › About the College of Law › News, Events, and Multimedia › News › Two Alumni Honored at TU Law Alumni Gala
Wednesday, June 01, 2011
The TU College of Law Alumni Association honored two alumni at the annual TU Law Alumni Gala on May 21 at Gilcrease Museum.
This year's Lifetime Achievement in Law Award was presented to John R. Woodard III (JD '67), a partner with Feldman, Franden, Woodard & Farris and a past president of the TU College of Law Alumni Association. Woodard was president of the Federation of Defense and Corporate Counsel and is a national director for the American Board of Trial Advocates.
The W. Thomas Coffman Community Service Award was awarded to Drew Edmondson (JD '79), shareholder with GableGotwals. Edmondson was Oklahoma Attorney General from 1994 to 2010, and he served one term in the Oklahoma legislature and three terms as Muskogee County District Attorney. Coffman was an outstanding alumnus who passed away in 2007. Award recipients share Coffman's dedication to integrity and service.
Contact:Scott email@example.com


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Hoop-Dee-Doo Musical Revue
Mickey's Backyard BBQ
The Spirit of Aloha
Printable View
Hoop-Dee-Doo Musical Revue
Mickey's Backyard BBQ
The Spirit of Aloha
I have seen Hoop-Dee-Doo Revue two times and greatly enjoyed the show. The food was plentiful and we had a great time. I would go again and I can't wait to take my kids.
Hoop dee doo is definately my favorite. My friends and I went 3 times in the year we were CPs we liked it so much. Great Sangria!!
Definatly the Hoop-de-doo. The last time we went, i laughed like the lady for the whole week. My siblings wanted to kill me. and my dad wouldnt stop singing "hoop-d-doo"
I love the food. Ribs are my fav food and i pigged out so much. I did eat the salad and the bread but when the ribs came, i hogged the bucket.
Ive been there 3 times and 1 time my uncle got to go up. I dont remember those times that much but it still is pretty cool(what i do remember)
I was actually talking to the person i sit next to in band about the HDD yesterday. I have no idea how it came up but i almost started singing(and thats not what we should b doing in band, trumpet sounds much better than my voice)
I laughed so hard when i went that some of the rib went up my nose. It was very weird. But thats just saying how much i loved it
I LOVE the HDD, the show hasn't changed a bit since it started. We went to the Luau on our honeymoon but I still think HDD is the best. When my kids saw it for the first time our neighbors had traveled with us, for the rest of the week we had two 7 year old boys singing"dreadful sorry Frankenstein".
Have to go with the Hoop de doo!
Hoop De Doo, Easily
I've never seen the Hoop De Doo, but will someday. Perhaps when I take my nephews with me.
I have only done the show at Poly, want to try some other ones with the kids soon!
Have seen all three and prefer Hoop Dee Doo the best no matter how many times we go,
:hurray: Without a doubt...HoopDeDoo!
The Spirit of Aloha, hands down... Food was fantastic, the show was great, but the be-all end-all was the FIRE JUGGLER!!!! He was flipping two rods, burning at BOTH ends mind you, and catching them behind his back, in between his legs, lying on his back, etc., smiling the whole time like it was nothing...That was the single greatest feat dealing with fire that I have ever seen, live or on tv... we walked out of there completely amazed. Just another of the many reasons that the Polynesian is my easily my favorite resort.
Hoop-dee-doo absolutely!
It's Hilarious!! (YES capital H)
I had my b-day there. I wish I could have my next b-day at WDW. I'm trying to make it a tradition.
Hoop de Do is getting great reviews here, I will have to try it out! Is this the one with a huge waiting list to get in?