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My five year old, 5 ton AC unit died a couple days ago. It was determined the condenser unit (the big box with a fan on the top that puts out hot air and sits on a concrete pad outside the house) was bad and needed to be replaced. We figured out the thing was still under warranty, but the AC company (Waggoner's Heating and Air in Norman OK) charged $947 for the labor to replace the unit. One person came out for about 4 hours (including a 1 hour lunch).
My gut feeling is I got robbed, but I'll ask the community. How much should I expect to pay on labor for replacing a condenser? |
Follow-Up Postings:
Asking about the cost after the work is done isn't the best idea, obviously. If it was just labor, even if there was a truck charge, you are paying around $300 an hour. My guess is that you paid for various materials also. It's important to note that warranties on HVAC products don't include labor, which can be substantial. You need to bring it up with the repair company. |
- Posted by baldloonie (My Page) on Thu, Aug 27, 09 at 17:47
What was changed? Just the compressor (inside the outdoor unit) or the unit itself? First he has to recover the refrigerant from the unit. Many charge for use of machine plus cost of disposing of the refrigerant. Then the compressor or outdoor unit is changed. Compressor changes are more work, harder to do. A filter-drier should be installed or replaced. Nitrogen is applied to check for leaks. Then he runs a vacuum pump, which could have been running while he was dining. Our guys often go to lunch while the pump is on. Then new refrigerant is put in and that costs. Also many distributors charge a handling fee for warranty compressor or unit. So $947 for a 5 ton is very typical around here. |
Baldloonie, sounds like you are comfortable defending a business model that includes a lot of sitting around waiting for some one to come by with $947 to spare. If fewer customers were willing to empty their pockets so readily fewer guys would try to run a business like that. Just my opinion, of course, and I realize it makes me a prime target here. Your arguments are silly - that someone could charge their hourly labor rate because their pump was running is ludicrous. Or that a mid-level tech is worth $300 an hour, or that a filter-drier costs more than $30. Or that the guy has to charge for refrigerant disposal - used R22, at least, has a positive market value and costs around $3 a pound to replace. And the recovery machine costs $400 to buy; how much to rent to the customer for fifteen minutes? How about the laundry bill for the guy's jeans? |
johnax, I agree with you in general. I know that it takes more than meets the eye to run a business and that nobody should be expected to sell materials at cost. That said, when businesses become complacent about gouging the consumer, they put themselves in a position to get their butts kicked in the market. A mid-level tech should be $100-120 an hour including plenty of markup. Oh, and for that, you should actually get someone who knows what they are doing-which isn't the case a lot of times! A truck charge is also reasonable to cover fuel, vehicle, etc. as is a reasonable markup on supplies and consumables. In my book, the cost of getting the part to the shop - including the shop time -- should be paid by the manufacturer. At any rate, I'm having a hard time reasonably getting above $700 with plenty of markup for overhead and profit. |
- Posted by energy_rater_la (My Page) on Sun, Aug 30, 09 at 14:48
price is not so out of line IMO.. I wouldn't feel ripped off OP, unless there is a problem Or that a mid-level tech is worth $300 an hour, or that a filter-drier costs more than $30. Or that the guy has to charge for refrigerant disposal - used R22, at least, has a positive market value and costs around $3 a pound to replace. And the recovery machine costs $400 to buy; how much to rent to the customer for fifteen minutes? no offense..but you really don't know what is involved when you hire a hvac company |
Is is always amusing to see someone who has never run a business, or had to invest thousands of dollars in training, licensing, equipment, and parts complain about what work costs. You forget the cost of brazing equipment and gas, replacing vacuum pump oil (and the filter I keep on my pump to prevent trash from your damaged system from wrecking my pump), or the filter on the recovery set that is used for the same reason, or hauling the used refrigerant to the recycler, and all the little expenses that go into making sure I have all the parts to do the job in a single trip. Unlike the typical home project that can take you a couple tries to the store for parts and pieces, I need it all there NOW to get the job done. A lot of money is tied up and there is a return on it in the cost of work performed. |
A compressor change out for a 5 ton rapm060 holds 16 lbs of refrigerant plus line set.now a 1x 1/8 lin set 150 ft gonna hold much more. 18 lbs @ 30 = 500 plus for refrigerant. nitro @30 brazing @ 30 reclaiming bad refrigerant @ 50,filter dryer @ 30.did we have a burn out??? so we now have to clean out and or flush out the lines. flush out kit plus suction lne filter@ 100 or more. plus labor of 4 hours $ 400. these numbers can go over $1000 depending on the probem and the size and seer of the system. If the compressor just simply locked up and you can reuse the refrgerant then the price will be MUCH lower. lots of variables to consider |
I dont think a tooth filling is worth over $100 why do Dentists charge $400?? I was only there less than an hour? $75 for 1/2 an hour for dentist, $3 for the receptionist, $10 for the assistant, and $25 for the filling material seems fair to me. |
Um, ZL, dude, I get your point... but if you are paying $400 for a filling, the OP has an HVAC contractor he needs to introduce you to. In addition, dentists have 8 years of college in a very competitive environment and pass a state medical exam. As has been demonstrated on this board, too many HVAC techs don't have a basic comprehension of what they are doing. You can talk about training and tools all you want, but we both know that the professionalism and knowledge of HVAC techs varies considerably - something I think is a serious problem. Coolmen: So, I figured 3 hours at $100, 18# R22 marked up 100% is $216, $50 for a filter dryer, $85 for a truck charge and another $50 for recovery = $700 +tax. You can certainly itemize every little supply... but then it doesn't follow that you have a 100% markup on freon and 270% markup on labor. A tech that makes $50k a year is costing about $36 an hour after benefits. It's admittedly been a while since I was doing this... but I think that there is a lot of markup and line-iteming going on... $500 for 18# of freon, are you joking? The cost is $180 for a 30# can delivered in small quantities (less than 10 cans). At $30 a pound, you are talking a 500% markup. |
You may accept metal fillings but mine are composite and don't show. Of course most is covered by insurance. But a HVAC tech doesn't deserve enough pay to covers his families insurance, after all, we only count the hours on job, divided by the amount charged, and that must be his pay right? Besides all that it was a funny poke with humor, man open your mind. It is interesting Jake, if you did once do it for a living, wished you made more? Had a better life? If someone is going to question price afterward, shouldnt you have asked for a quote first. Who buys a couch and finds out how much after it's delivered?? |
Dude, the first thing I said was that the OP should have checked on price first, before the work was done. When I was doing it for a living I wasn't making $50k a year. Sure, when I was doing that I wish I made more and had a better life - and if I'd gone into commercial work that could have happened. But, depending on the region (I'm midwest), $50k a year for a mid-level residential HVAC tech isn't bad - particularly without a college education. As a tech, you don't make more money by gouging the consumer, you make it by becoming a more valuable employee. Look, I'm all for people making a living. I believe good tradesmen in general don't get the money or credit they deserve. That said, there are a lot of guys doing bad HVAC work and the company they work for are charging too much for it even if it wasn't bad. If the industry doesn't get its act together, we will see a repeat of what happened to the big 3 auto makers. I don't know how it will happen, but someone will come in and knock the crap out of the industry and the consumer, after having the experience of paying $500 for 18# of freon, won't feel bad about it at all. |
So, here's the killer concept: The AC is engineered and built with all of the major parts being almost tool-less. The condenser unit, line set and evaporator all connect with 1/4 turn, self-sealing quick couplings. Everything is pre-charged. The wiring, including the outdoor whip is all snap together. The evaporator slides out. The unit includes basic diagnostics that would indicate a refrigerant related problem. The major components include an RFID tag that would would ID itself to the system. So, the customer calls with AC complaint (or perhaps the unit sends a text msg.) The service company can ID the components, that it's a refrigerant related problem and the age of the system from the error code on the thermostat. No house visit is required to diagnose the problem. They can give a firm price based on the age of the system and replace the entire unit (condenser, line set and evaporator coil) with a reman unit. The swap-out is done by a kid making $15 an hour and it takes perhaps an hour or so to do. No tools, no recovery, almost no training. The customer gets a factory tested unit, properly charged, perfect install, cheap and very quick turn around. The old unit goes back in the reusable shipping containers, and is returned to a regional reman facility (possibly even in Mexico)where assembly line workers are happy to make $12 an hour rebuilding the things in a very fast, efficient and controlled way. Every bit of waste is squeezed out - refrigerant is cleaned and recycled on-site. Parts that are out of spec are recycled, everything is reclaimed. Gone are all of the truck charges, tools, trained (or not) techs, $30 a pound refrigerant, $100 an hour workers, recovery fees, etc. Also gone are decent paying jobs. None of this would be hard to do right now. |
Jake your concept on equipment replacment is farthest from the truth.A kidd making 15 a hour swapping out a unit with no tools needed. no wonder you left the industry.you have NO CLUE<<<<<<<<<<<<< With the internet in just about everyones home, I would expect the homeowner to get at least 3 bids to replace the comressor and or search for lower priced R-22. I will say that here in north jersey my price seems to be in line with others out there. I charge what I charge And have very hapy homeowners.(I must have had the lower price bid). with 25 years in the trade I have never left a house thinking I ripped someone off nor will I change. |
Coolmen, Of course it's furthest from the truth currently. And it may never happen at all. But the point is that it's doable. Anytime an industry gets complacent and uncompetitive, someone comes in and changes the game. Look at the automakers, look at what Walmart did to retailing. Look at how roof trusses, floor trusses and wall fabrication has reduced the need for skilled carpenters. As far as your customers getting three bids... perhaps. But the industry is really set up to make it impossible to shop price. The average non-tech consumer doesn't have the wherewithal to dissect the quotes - you see that on this board also. If they were ever to really shop price, you wouldn't be able to get a 500% markup on anything. |
And there are still people paying sticker price for cars, it will always remain that way. |
- Posted by orlandosam (My Page) on Tue, Sep 1, 09 at 23:31
I was just given a quote with now breakdown for labor, no description of the make and model of the "1 ton unit". $2800. A basic one ton unit (base model) can be ordered for 750 to 1000 dollars. How does 1800 trans sound for labor. I have read about half a dozen threads on what things cost. I appreciate the cost of overhead. I run a business but I also see plenty of gouging in my business and recognize gouging in this business. For 3 or 4 hours of work, my quote works out to 450 dollars per hour. At that rate I can hire an AC tech, buy the freon, the vacum pump, the torch and do the job for less. Dont get me wrong it is a hassle to become the contractor but these are fat proft margins. If I ever should retire from my current profession, medicine, I am eyeing this AC career for its sheer profitability. The R410 conversion is one of the bigger boondoggles in the industry. "oh that new refrigerant is coming and you need to swap out these air handler too and while we are at it lets swap out all your units because they are old" You know how to tell when you are being gouged. When they are so profitable complacent and lazy that they dont even offer to consider a option to fix any part of your system. It is so tempting and profitable to just rip it all out but the problem is that AC repair requires careful well done installation so you really run the risk of going to hell in a handbasket with poor quality install. Is there anyone in the AC business, honest, conscientous and fair priced in the greater Orlando area? |
- Posted by 4600G(firstname.lastname@example.com) onWed, Jul 13, 11 at 12:11
In regards to olandosam saying that his next profession will be A/C and all the other so called experts who think that they are being ripped off by A/C Company'┐Įs. It'┐Įs a sad fact that the national statistics say that 90% of A/C companies have an average net profit of 1% or less and $300,000 or less in revenue. Only 50% of an 8 hour day is billable. Those 4 hours must cover all expenses and leave a small profit at the end, so you can survive in off season, when revenue dips below what it cost to keep the doors open. The truck that is fully stocked in order to get you'┐Įre A/C up and running as quickly as possible, takes nearly $100 dollars to fill, its filled 2 to 4 times a week, gets an average of 10 miles a gallon, because of what it must carry. The part was ordered by someone, picked up and put on the truck by someone, the invoice for that part is paid for by a book keeper, when the part is used and the invoice is processed the procedure starts all over again. The excessive charges by the credit card company'┐Įs so you can receive points from your purchases. All of the expenses are paid for by what you call gauging! We will have to go back on some of those calls, because of product failure; this cost is covered by the initial charge. Workman'┐Įs comp for an A/C tech is very high because of the danger involved, general liability insurance, commercial automobile insurance, land line phones, cell phones, advertising which is how you heard about us in the first place, all paid for in that 4 hour window a day. The person that answered the phone to help you, the repairs on the truck, uniforms, I could go on and on, but you already know all this since you'┐Įre an expert. I do understand when customers see the sticker shock for a part that seems to be so small and so cheap to buy, I myself can'┐Įt believe what we must charge in order to keep the doors open but the fact is, no matter how efficient we run our business, the total cost of running a service based company that comes into your home is thru the roof. So come on, get out of that cool office you sit in, come on up in the 130 degree attic, crawl on your hands and knees thru the insulation, take the chance of going thru the celling since there'┐Įs hardly ever wood in the attic, or touch an electrical circuit with your sweaty hands because most diagnostic must be made while the unit is powered up. It is a glamorous life, never knowing when you'┐Įre getting off from work. It does not sit well with the family who has no idea when you will be home. Hope you don'┐Įt mind a bad back and worn out knees because that is what you have to look forward to. |
Well, it should have never taken 4 hours.... So you paid around $500 for refrigerant (5 ton unit just an ~), plus whatever to vacuum out the old stuff and dispose of it. So that's $447 for disposal and labor. Divide by 4 and you're at ~$112 an hour. That's not bad so I assume the fact they were there for 4 hours (for whatever stupid reason) they cut you a break on the number of billable hours. Refrigerant is stupid expensive and it's why people never want to replace only the condenser. Imagine paying $500 twice! Once to replace the condenser and again to replace the FAU. |
Might as well have changed out to an all new R410A high efficiency system & saved the high $ R-22 costs... A/C may also need downsizing; use the Whole House Calculator & use .4 or .5 Air changes per Hour (ACH) * cu.ft volume of your home to get the CFM...put in the blank___CFM; when U think U have it right print it; U can't save it; unless U use 'Snipping Tool' to capture the screen image of it. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Whole House Calculator
Ok, it is gauging in my opinion, and on top of that companies are just trying to profit from 410A conversions, which interestingly enough was based on the patent expiration of r22 coming up. I am sure the Dr here can relate to similar scenarios with pharmaceuticals. Many of us are not ready nor interested in converting. I have rental property and to charge my unit the so called contractors are wanting to bilk me 100.00 / lb. when their cost for 30Lbs is < 200.00 today. It's cheaper for me to pass 3 simple tests, get my EPA certification and do my own charging, but many people don't have that as an option and fees are just unjustified. On top of that, most contractors refuse to fix a broken R22 unit, and just push for new and leave. I have a broken unit. None of the 3 guys I had out offer to detect the leak. Yes, it may cost 800 to replace a compressor, but sure beats 5000 for a new system, specially in a rental property. |
Certified? Just buy a 30 pound tank on eBay. Heck, tons of times you'll find a used tank because people keep buying them, filling once then reselling them. |
I had occasion three days ago to call a rooter company to address a sewer line blockage. Guy shows up - $89 Flat Fee Service Visit... diagnoses blockage location. Quotes $579 to clear + $89 Fee. The diagnosis took about 25 minutes. My choices were accept the offer OR pay the $89 and call someone else and again pay a similar Service Fee. I paid the $579 and mentioned I got his name from Angie's List... that waived the Service Fee. Clearing the stoppage took less than 25 minutes. Do I think that was high? Yes. Do I think it was worth it to me? Yes... no realistic option. Was I satisfied? Yup. The guy was fastidious in his effort to keep the house clean, his demeanor was professional and confidant. Would I hire them again? Yes. Would I go DIY? Nope. I paid for a group of skill sets and equipment that I do not have. |
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Reading the other avocado commments, I remembered that Wayside/Parks has a dwarf. Looking that up, it's almost $50 - probably closer to $60 with shipping.
My mixed feelings about that supplier aside (which has been a mixed experience, some good, some bad), I was wondering if this avocado actually can bear fruit in a container and be overewintered inside (as Park's claims), and if so, are there sources of the same (or equivalent) variety for, say, under $20? So far my search has been "fruitless" - so to speak - but it would be interesting to grow avocados here in WA. I just cant see paying that much for any fruit tree, let alone one that may be worthless. Thanks for any comments. |
Follow-Up Postings:
When they had a demonstration tunnel set up at WSU Mt Vernon I think avocado was one of the inhabitants (along with citrus). The idea was to show that such fruits could be overwintered here with a comparatively inexpensive setup. Anything grown outside in any but the most mild parts of southern California has to be able to take temperatures at least approaching freezing sooner or later. A family friend who once lived in Ballard neighborhood of Seattle claimed to have eaten fruits off of an outdoor tree there, must have been one of the hardier Mexican cultivars. |
- Posted by pitangadiego San Diego, CA (My Page) on Mon, Jan 2, 06 at 16:28
Save yor money. |
Pitangadiego, LOL. Well the few reports on Don Gillogly has been that its all hype. |
I was also interested in that avocado, but decided to go for the Holiday (also known as the XX3) avocado instead. The Holiday is also a dwarf avocado, but it has been evaluated by universities like the University of California, Riverside (see link below). I've seen the avocado at 2 local Home Depot stores and at a Long's Drugs store near me. There were about $25 for a 3-4 foot tree. There's also a website that sells holiday avocado trees, and the website contains information about holiday v. the Don Gillogly: http://www.growquest.com/Fruit trees/avocado_holiday tree.htm For $60, you should get more than just a tiny tree that will take years to grow fruit. I have seen an article a while back by the San Jose Mercury News that does praise the Don Gillogly however... |
Here is a link that might be useful: UC Riverside's Avocado Database
- Posted by kuffelcreek z5 So. Calif. (My Page) on Fri, Jan 6, 06 at 23:45
My wife had her heart set on Don Gillogly, so I ponied up for it. I will say that it survived our brutal summer in a pot and several freezes down to 30 degrees. It is in a 15 inch pot and is about three feet tall now. On the other hand, $50 will buy a lot of Haas avocados from the supermarket... |
You have convinced me. No Don Gillogly. I doubt that I have spent $60 on avocados in my lifetime. It seemed like an interesting project and for a significantly lower cost, I probably would buy one. Thanks for the input. |
- Posted by tiffaneyga 7 (My Page) on Fri, Jan 27, 06 at 14:05
Save your money. I bought one several years ago and it has never produced an avocado. Sure, it can handle temps outside in the summer, and it will sprout new leaves but it's not that impressive. |
Avocado trees are said to require cross-pollination. An isolated specimen might not produce even if it was doing great otherwise. |
I'm about to buy either the Holiday dwarf avocado or the Don Gillogly. Anyone with more recommendations on either? |
I live in Orange County, Southern California. I bought a Holiday and a Don Gillogly ("DG")avocado tree in February of 2006. At that time the Holiday was about 5 ft tall and the DG was about 4 feet tall. Today, November 14, 2006 the Holiday is almost 10 ft tall and the DG is only 4.5 ft tall. The Holiday is robust, healthy, full and beautiful. The DG is sparce, insipid, delicate, yet still green. They were planted in the same month and are about 10 feet from each other. I researched both as much as I could. I bought the DG first and the Holiday only as an after thought and as insurance in case one didn't do well. I have wanted my own avocado tree all my life. For the DG, all the information that I read on the web was limited to hearsay a few and representations from Rogers nursery and from Don Gillogly himself. Nothing from anyone who actually owned and grew one and then ate the fruit. Now I think I know why. This is a totally unproven commodity. I have asked every nursery I have ever dropped in on and no one, not a sole has had any first hand experience with the DG. I have yet to hear from anyone who has actually eaten a DG avocado, much less even grown one themselves. Think that the DG is a fake. I think that much if not all of the information out there is wrong, not substantiated, inaccurate, and constitute only "representation", not fact. IOW, Hype with a capital H. Please, if anyone out there has actually grown a DG and harvested fruit, please, tell us! |
- Posted by desert-fiesta (My Page) on Sat, Apr 21, 07 at 20:51
Planted in 2005. 2007. The ends of last year's growth threw out flower stalks. It seems like it was in about February (Kathy thinks it was March). I thought it was new leaf growth and Kathy thought they were flowers. They turned out to be flowers and it took a few weeks for any of them to open. They are very small…about a quarter inch. In the interim, the branch grew and a bunch of leaves extended beyond the flower stalks. I check for signs of successful pollination often and noticed a few small avocados on April 20th. They were about a 1/16th of an inch to maybe 1/8th inch. The new leaves were pretty large by the time the avocados appeared. I also redid the drip basin (make it a bit larger) and added more coco-husks in early April. |
I got my DG froms Parks as a season end sale for around $7 or not much more. I keep it on my back deck in a 14" clay pot alongside my dwarf citrus, and after 1 1/2 years it is about 4-5 ft tall. I take it inside for a few months every winter and it is a vigorus plant. This winter was the first time it had any blossoms but no fruit. For the little I paid it was worth it, but I would never pay $50+ for it. |
- Posted by ashok_ncal CA z9b (My Page) on Mon, Apr 23, 07 at 22:13
I would add that Julie Frink, the well-known Southern California avocado expert, does not recommend "Don Gillogly." She does, however, highly recommend "Holiday", particularly for those who want smaller trees. (This is all in the context of in-ground, outdoor plants.) I have seen advertising material for the "Don Gillogly" cultivar implying (I think) that it is capable of producing fruit when grown indoors as a houseplant. As anyone with any experience with plants could tell you, this is just not possible, unless perhaps you have the functional equivalent of a greenhouse (e.g. a large solarium). I suspect that there are lots of disappointed buyers out there. For those who plant it outdoors in places like California, I would bet that it would eventually produce (at least) decent fruit ... but probably not the uber-tasty crop that the promoters promise. As I recall, Frink (who has probably tasted more avocado cultivars than anyone else in the state), lists her "Top 5 for Flavor" avocado cultivars as follows: "Jan Boyce" (I think that "Jan Boyce" may be her current top favorite for flavor, but the others are in no particular ranking order.) |
Last summer, I was in Texas, and had to stop at Devine avocados near San Antonio. The owner Bill took me on around his avocado orchard. All his avocados are the mexican varieties he grew from seed. I bought a variety named "Opal". It flowered in it's 1 gallon container, but it's too small to set fruit. I paid $30 for it. Bass |
Ashok, Can you find out somehow if the Jan Boyce originates from a property immediately adjacent to the UCR botanical gardens in Riverside? If so, I have eaten avocados there on several occassions, as I know the current owner. And I think he bought it from a man named Boyce, who had been the curator of the gardens until he passed away. The fellow who owns it now gave me a fig selection which Boyce had raised from seed. The only name I call it is Boyce. |
- Posted by ashok_ncal CA z9b (My Page) on Tue, Apr 24, 07 at 14:10
Plumfan, I just checked the U.C. avocado variety information page (just Google avocado + "jan boyce" and you'll find it), and there's no information on the origin of the cultivar. It certainly could be possible that the cultivar originates from the property that you've visited. Or perhaps Boyce (the botanical garden curator) found a superior seedling somewhere out there in Southern California, and then propagated and promoted it. I do know that "Jan Boyce" is not really commercially available. A tree or trees exist at the U.C. South Coast Field Station in Irvine (Orange County), and that's where Frink would have encountered the cultivar. (The Orange County CRFG chapter propagates trees using scionwood from the Field Station collection, and they usually sell lots of them at the Fullerton Arboretum "Green Scene" plant sale. I believe this sale will occur shortly, so those in Southern California might keep this in mind if they want to pick up some unusual avocado types. And no, I don't get any kickbacks!) If you want to get more information on "Jan Boyce", I suggest that you write Frink directly. I don't have her e-mail address on hand, but you could send a message to the general CRFG "Information" address and ask that it be forwarded to her. I think that she would probably respond to a polite query, particularly one as intriguing as yours. If anyone can answer your question, it would be her. |
For the sake of someone doing a search and looking into buying a dwarf avocado and its price: I bought a Holiday in a 15 gallon (about 3-4 feet tall)container for $20 at Home Depot in Monrovia, CA. Or is it Duarte? anyways... I planted it and it looks good so far. Added a tomato cage around it just for safety from my tiny dog. It worked, he doesnt even look at it. |
- Posted by desert-fiesta Orange County CA (My Page) on Fri, Feb 29, 08 at 22:53
DG Update: Year 3. I posted in April last year. Last year's little DG avocados dropped within a month. My tree was planted in 2005. The tallest branch is 6 feet high and I just saw lots of flowers sprouting today. Maybe we'll get fruit this year! |
- Posted by altadenamara SoCal9 (My Page) on Sat, Mar 1, 08 at 9:38
I bought a DG at Rogers Nursery several years ago, planted it in a 15 gallon pot. It grew slowly outside for two or three years. We live in what is supposed to be safe avocado country, so I never thought of giving it special protection. The freeze of January '07 killed the tree, but the rootstock came up, is now around 4 feet tall. I was hoping to get to a scion exchange this year and graft it, but wasn't able to make any. |
- Posted by another_mike (My Page) on Sat, Mar 15, 08 at 12:47
I bought 2 probably 6 or 7 years ago. up until this year i was ready to drag both of them into the gom for really good salty soak. I bought them from wayside and spent too much. fought that nasty phyto root rot by unplanting cutting bad roots and replanting. the die back from this disease brought down almost to the graft. One is barely a foot and the other maybe just over 2 ft. I called a research center in the texas valley and he had suggested using peters triple 20. Well during this winter those two spastic little plants started flowering like mad when before they never did anything. Haven't seen any evidence of fruit yet, we'll see. While this is a self pollinating variety, so they said, I have a wurts flowering and it may help. if i had it to do all over again, I would have bought another variety for less. I will also have to add that I have over 50 containerized trees and the avocado's (7 total) proves to be the most challenging. |
- Posted by desert-fiesta (My Page) on Sun, Jun 22, 08 at 11:57
I've posted a couple times before-each year is a bit more successful with my DG. A wind storm in May knocked most of the little avocados off. Three are left and they are on the tallest branch (height is 6+ feet); the biggest avocado is 1 inch long and 0.375 across and has the shape of an avocado. The remaining two avocados are a bit over a half-inch long. The trunk below the graft is ~1.5 inches. Avocados take time. I'll report again if any reach maturity, or again next year. |
- Posted by chrissystarr 22 (My Page) on Sat, Jul 5, 08 at 16:28
I live in So Cal in Long Beach (Sunset zone 22). I bought a DG from Roger's Gardens about five years ago. I kept the poor thing in a pot for almost two years and it suffered a lot from underwatering. It flowered at least a couple of times and got a few tiny fruits, but dropped everything when I would forget to water it. I planted it three years ago and it grew pretty steadily to about 14 feet. The first year it was in the ground, I don't think that it flowered. The second year, it was covered with flowers, but never set fruit. At least I thought so, I discovered a big one, hiding in the leaves last year. It was about six inches long and elongated with a slightly curved neck. I didn't even see any fruit form at all, so I was pretty surprised. The taste was similar to a really ripe Hass, not as "avocadoey" (that's not a word), but more buttery. It was really good. So when it flowered this year (Jan or Feb ?) I was going to try to hand pollinate it because there was just one fruit last year and I don't know of any avocado trees nearby. I never got around to it, but I didn't have to. The tree is covered with one to two inch fruit. Amazing. I don't know if this tree will fruit every other year, or if last year was just a bad year and it is making up for it this year (as I have read avocado tend to do). We did have a freak cold wave last year and I can't remember if the tree had flowers on it then. Crossing my fingers that all the fruit stay on the tree!!!! I have included a link to pictures of the tree: http://web.mac.com/bryansierra/iWeb/Garden/Don Gillogly.html -Crystal |
Here is a link that might be useful: Don Gillogly Photos
- Posted by chrissystarr 22 (My Page) on Mon, Aug 25, 08 at 16:03
An update to my previous post: The tree is losing leaves and dropping avocados, probably due to my lack of watering. I have two kittens that use the tree as a jungle-gym, that's not helping either, but it's fun to watch. The fruits are growing slowly. They are about 3-4 inches and there are still a lot of them on the tree. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Don Gillogly Photos
- Posted by NoseyRosey z10(email@example.com) onSun, Oct 19, 08 at 11:07
I have this avocado and it does great for me in a pot on my lanai. You can not let it get too wet. I can't imagine how you would get anything with it as a houseplant. BTW ChrissyStar, did you once live in Bonita Springs, FL |
- Posted by librarylady (My Page) on Sun, Feb 1, 09 at 0:26
I live in Southern California and bought a Gillogly tree rather than a Holiday because I wanted an avocado tree that wouldn't get too big. I have a small backyard. I was told by Rogers Gardens that the tree could grow in a pot. The tree was in a pot for a year and was doing so badly that I had a planter built for it. This year, the tree is growing; it's about 6 1/2 feet high, about 4 feet wide, and is shooting out new leaves. So far, the tree has never flowered. How long does it take for an avocado to produce friut? Supposedly, the Gillolgy needs no cross-pollenation. For those growing this tree, how big did yours get? I was told it shouldn't get much bigger than 8 feet. Is this true? |
- Posted by arctictropical Z4 (My Page) on Mon, Feb 2, 09 at 10:33
I bought one several years ago. I successfully grow a lot of indoor tropicals, but the DG avocado never did well, and eventually died. As others have mentioned, save your money. |
Here is a link in this forum to a picture and question about my Don G tree. Thanks for your help, Lifespeed |
- Posted by desert-fiesta Irvine CA (My Page) on Sun, Mar 6, 11 at 15:41
Update: Planted and sunburned in 2005. Took off in 2006. See my other posts above. 2008 was best year with one getting to be 1.75 inches long before it fell (yes it had a good seed, not like lifespeed's cucumber in another forum). 2010 was a dud year. I only got a few short flower stalks (weather???). 2011 is looking much better with lots of flower stalks, but flowers are not blooming yet. Very frustrating to wait this long for even my first real avocado. Tree is about 8 feet high. |
- Posted by serge94501 Sunset 17 Alameda, (My Page) on Sun, Jul 28, 13 at 15:15
So...was it the Great Green Hype? |
- Posted by wacystilson 6 (My Page) on Mon, Nov 25, 13 at 16:52
I planted a Don Gillogly sapling about 6, maybe 7 years ago. I drove 400 miles to get it at an Orange County nursery, and bought another for a friend. Hers died, but mine lived and since we live only two blocks apart, I can't say why I had better success- I would guess because I practice benign neglect and don't water very often :) The tree was about 5 feet tall when I moved 4 years ago and I returned to my house in Cupertino, CA in March of this year to find my avocado tree had grown considerably and had fruit. The tree is about 12 feet high, so it is either going to stay relatively short or it's going to grow very slowly. The fruit is absolutely wonderful- no strings, a true avocado flavor, not watery flesh, buttery and rich and about 7 inches long. A weird thing about the fruit- they have a channel, like a skinny conical envelope from the seed to the stem. The tree now has a second crop for this year. My tree has spread horizontally (maybe 10 feet from left to right) so it seems like a tall bush in some ways. It is near my house and may get a little protection from cold and wind because of that, but our winters get into the low 30s at night and the tree has done well without any special care or fertilization. When I came back this year, I did throw some avocado fertilizer on the ground under the tree. I'm very happy I planted it. |
- Posted by cosmogracie So Cal (My Page) on Sat, Jun 28, 14 at 16:33
I have waited several years to add a valid comment to this thread. I live in Orange County, California. 10 years ago I bought a five gallon Don G tree at Rogers Garden for $50. Took the time to plant it properly. It has grown very nicely and is a small to medium-size tree. Maybe 12 feet tall. Had an abundance of fruit in the third year. A little bit of fruit fourth-year. Fruits were very long and skinny. Taste was ok, buttery texture. But after those first few years, the tree stopped producing. That's right, no fruit in six years. It gets the proper water, the proper feeding, everything it needs. I regret the purchase. |
Home Depot now has grafted avos that grow 12-15 tall. |
Home Depot now has grafted avos that grow 12-15 tall. |
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Articles Archive for 16 November 2009
Courtesy Monica Garcia,
Visiting judge Ron Carr of San Antonio presided over jury selection today in the criminal trial of Jesus Rangel (1/23/1982). Rangel is charged with a Class A Misdemeanor Assault after he allegedly struck a man in the face with a large drinking glass.
On October 31, 2008, the victim's family was having a small party at their home located on the 600 block of East Travis, when the victim noticed that his wallet had gone missing from his car. The hosts of the party believed that the defendant had …
Courtesy Bryan Benway,
LAREDO, TX- The Laredo Bucks of the Central Hockey League will continue their five-game homestand this weekend at the Laredo Entertainment Center when they host Odessa on Friday (Nov. 20th) and Texas on Saturday (Nov 21st). The Bucks have won four one-goal games in a row, and are in second place in the Southern Conference with a 7-2-2 record (16 points).
On Friday (Nov. 20th) the Bucks will celebrate Fiesta Night when they host First-Place Odessa at 7:30pm. The first 1,000 fans to enter the LEC …
HEADLINE, Webb County Politics »
Webb County Commissioner Pct.2 Rosaura "Waw" Tijerina held a Sticker Run at the Country Store located on Hwy. 359 this past Saturday morning. Commissioner Tijerina was greeted by members of her pct. as they talked about upcoming improvements and projects. Commissioner Tijerina is running for re-election she faces former County Commissioner Judith Gutierrez in the May 2010 County Elections.
Click here to view pics
FEATURED, HEADLINE, Webb County Politics »
Jackie L. Ramos said it Loud and Clear my name is Jackiel L. Ramos and I am your Candidate for Webb County District Clerk at a Mega Dance thrown my Ramos on Friday 13, 2008 at the Casa Blanca Ballroom. The dance featured Grammy Award Winning Group Los Palominos as well as Grupo Siggno and Adrian Perez and Grupo Origen. Pointing out that you will work for the citizens of Webb County Ramos took the stage before a sellout crowd that stood shoulder to shoulder to introduce herself as a candidate. …
City Elections 2010, FEATURED, HEADLINE »
Rosie Cuellar Castillo Candidate for Municipal Court Judge was accompanied by family and friends as she held a plate sale on Saturday at the Jiffy Lube on McPherson. Hundreds of cars drove in as a make shift drive thru was made to help with the rush of people who bought tickets for the sale. With a large group of campaign supporters present the event moved on smoothly and quickly as everyone picked up their plates that consisted of Sirloin Steak, Rice, Beans, and Bread. Cuellar will be running current Municipal …
FEATURED, HEADLINE, Webb County Politics »
Lonnie Garcia Jr. and crew continue their hard work as he runs for the position of Webb County Clerk currently held by the incumbent Margie Ibarra. Lonnie has been out and about in different events around town from bowling tournaments to to the streets Garcia has made a name for himself in the still early county races. Lonnie Garcia and Supporters held a plate sale on Saturday at the Vaqueros Parking Lot on Jacaman St. (Click here to view pics)
FEATURED, HEADLINE, Webb County Politics »
Judith Gutierrez Candidate for Webb County Commissioner Pct.2 and Sylvia Palombo Candidate for Webb County District Clerk held a plate sale this past Saturday morning at Lalo's Sportmans Club. Supporters of the two gathered early in the morning as they prepared plates that consisted of Sirloin Steak, Rice, and Beans. Guttierrez and Palombo announced their candidacy's together last week at the Ambassador Reception Hall making Webb County History as the first sisters to run County Campaigns in the same year. Click here to view more pics


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Headline: "Teen hit with own golf ball sues for millions." The youth was using a Hillsboro, Ore. driving range in the rain and his ball ricocheted off a metal awning post back into his face. [KATU]
"Even if it's a 15-year-old, we hold 15-year-olds to certain levels of responsibility."
{ 3 comments }
- 1 01.24.11 at 10:22 am
Didn't he hear himself call "Fore" ?
- 2 01.24.11 at 9:45 pm
Maybe he didn't call 'fore'. Now in New York, there has been a ruling that there is an assumption of risk regardless of someone not calling 'fore' but things may be different in Oregon.
- 3 01.26.11 at 3:54 pm
The story made the "Fail Blog" see:
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found a new home!
Plenty of my friends are looking
for one too. Find a pet to adopt.
Find a pet to adopt |
My name is Pebbles!
Facts about Pebbles
- Breed: Beagle/American Staffordshire Terrier Mix
- Color: Brindle
- Age: Young
- Size: Med. 26-60 lbs (12-27 kg)
- Sex: Female
Pebbles's Info...
I am already spayed, housetrained, up to date with shots, good with kids, and good with dogs.
Come see us at Tractor Supply on Watson Blvd. in Warner Robins on Saturdays! Update.. She loves water, she will dive in the little play pool, sticks her head under water and rolls around. Too funny to watch her. She is playing with other dogs more and playing fetch. This is a very sweet girl. She will make a wonderful dog for a family or single person. She is going to take time to get to know her. She is not scared but will make you earn her trust. Once you have her trust she will be on your lap or at your heels all the time. Please come see her and give this little girl a chance. Pebbles get silly when everyone else is silly. She hugs you when she is glad to see you. She loves to play with other dogs - would be a great companion for an older dog. She likes to be the follower but will play on her own if no one else does. She has a great personality you just have to wait a little bit to see it. She would be a perfect candidate for a first foster dog because she loves and needs more one and one attention.
Other Pets at Peach County Animal Rescue
Why Adoption is a Great Option
Pebbles, a Fort Valley Beagle/American Staffordshire Terrier dog was adopted! Here's how you can benefit by looking at adoption as an option to buying a Beagle/American Staffordshire Terrier for sale in Fort Valley, or seeking a Beagle/American Staffordshire Terrier dog from a breeder in Fort Valley.
- Rescues and shelter volunteers in Fort Valley already know the personality and tendencies of their pets. This means they can match you with the right pet. That will makes it much easier transition to owning a pet for yourself and your new pet.
- On average adoption fees are much less than you'd pay a Fort Valley breeder, or pet store. Plus most often rescue pets have already been to the veterinarian for a check-up, had a round of vaccinations, and are spayed or neutered. That is a lot of savings!
- You will become a hero, and give a needy dog or cat a loving home. In fact, there are even Beagle/American Staffordshire Terrier breeders who help with Beagle/American Staffordshire Terrier rescue. One puppy or kitten adopted in Fort Valley paves the way for another one to be saved.


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cool album!!


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Kevin Durant
Thunder Star Kevin Durant Makes $1M Tornado Pledge
Oklahoma City Thunder star Kevin Durant is pledging $1 million for tornado relief through his family foundation and is urging others to give.
Thunder Season Ends With Loss To Grizzlies
In a season that seemed doomed once All-Star Russell Westbrook was lost to a knee injury, Kevin Durant couldn't save the Oklahoma City Thunder.
Durant's 25 Points Not Enough, Grizzlies Take 2-1 Lead
Marc Gasol scored 20 points and hit two free throws with 1:03 left to put Memphis ahead to stay, and the Grizzlies held off Oklahoma City 87-81 Saturday to take a 2-1 lead in this Western Conference semifinal.
Sports Verdict: Who's The Bigger X-Factor? Kevin Durant Vs. Carmelo Anthony
With the game, series, or season on the line, would you rather have Carmelo Anthony or Kevin Durant on your squad?
Grizzlies Drop Thunder 99-93, Even Series At 1-1
The Memphis Grizzlies wouldn't let Kevin Durant come through in the clutch for the second straight time. This was Mike Conley's time to shine.
Thunder Ride Durant To Game 1 Win
Kevin Durant's go-ahead jumper with 11.1 seconds left to give the Thunder Game 1 over the Grizzlies on Sunday went essentially according to plan.
Carmelo Anthony To Win NBA Scoring Title; Superstar Shifts Focus To Celtics
With more than 50 wins for the New York Knicks and more than 27 points per game for himself, the numbers back Melo up. The Knicks won a division title, and Anthony will add the scoring title after the regular season ends Wednesday.
West Tops East 143-138 In NBA All-Star Game
Kobe Bryant blocked a LeBron James jumper, turning it into a dunk by Kevin Durant that helped the West put away the East 143-138 in the NBA All-Star Game on Sunday night.
Thunder Scorch Mavericks 112-91
Russell Westbrook scored 24 points, Kevin Durant had 19 points, and the Thunder beat the Mavs 112-91 on Monday night while avoiding a third straight OT game between the teams.
Thunder Top 'Heart Of Champion' Mavs
The Mavericks have "a heart of a champion," said Oklahoma City's Kevin Durant, but his Thunder have the record to prove that they're the better team.
Kobe Holds Onto Lead In NBA All-Star Voting
In the third round of NBA All-Star ballot returns, Kobe Bryant remains on top as the leading vote-getter, ahead of LeBron James.
Mavs Fall To Thunder In Overtime 111-105
Kevin Durant scored 40 points while Russell Westbrook added eight of his 16 points in overtime to help the Oklahoma City Thunder beat Dallas 111-105 on Thursday night for their 11th straight win at home.


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With 250m downloads so far, ZeptoLab's Cut the Rope games have been one of the breakout brands from the apps era. Now their hero Om Nom is getting an augmented reality spin-off.
The app is called Om Nom: Candy Flick, and it was released for iPhone and iPad this week as a free download. It's a Paper Toss-style game where players flick sweets into Om Nom's mouth. The twist being that the virtual character is being projected into the real-world.
Players print out an AR image to place on the nearest flat surface to make the game work, although they can also display the picture on another device – an iPad for example – if they're feeling particularly technotastic.
Leaderboards add a competitive touch, but Om Nom: Candy Flick is more than just a simple game. It's the latest example of ZeptoLab's determination to make its character a bigger entertainment brand.
At the MIPCOM conference in October 2012, ZeptoLab CEO Misha Lyalin talked about Cut the Rope's multimedia growth, including merchandising, digital comics, Om Nom Stories animated shorts, and a deal with Sony Pictures Television to make a Cut the Rope TV gameshow.
With more than 50m monthly active users, ZeptoLab has a thriving player community to promote all these spin-offs to, as well as new apps like Om Nom: Candy Flick. Meanwhile, the developer is also striking out beyond Cut the Rope, releasing its latest original game Pudding Monsters just before Christmas.


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Fishing / Ice Fishing
From MN150
Other Nominations
Every lake of decent size has this male version of hanging out and getting away from the wife during the winter.
Fishing is fun for everyone.
Because in Minnesota it's one of the biggest tourist attractions, helps the economy, and hello, 10,000 lakes, what else are we gonna do with them? And getting bait and fishing supplies helps small businesses.
People in many other parts of the United States can't believe that when the weather gets cold we drive our cars out onto lakes, build houses there, bring them there and fish out of them! The fact that many cars and occasionally houses sink, shows that many Minnesotans still haven't mastered when and how to do it!
HistoryHistory[1] Resource LinksShare your memories on this topicNotes


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Summary: We are on the verge of the nation's worst nursing shortage in history. Dedicated nurses are leaving hospitals in droves, and there are not enough new recruits to the profession to meet demand. Even hospitals that were once very highly regarded for the quality of their nursing care, such as Boston's Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, now struggle to fill vacant positions. What happened? Dana Beth Weinberg argues that hospital restructuring in the 1990s is to blame. ...show more
In their attempts to retain profit margins or even just to stay afloat, hospitals adopted a common set of practices to cut costs and increase revenues. Many strategies squeezed greater productivity out of nurses and other hospital workers. Nurses' workloads increased to the point that even the most skilled nurses questioned whether they could provide minimal, safe care to patients. As hospitals hemorrhaged money, it seemed that no one--not hospital administrators, not doctors--felt they could afford to listen to nurses.
Through a careful look at the effects of the restructuring strategies chosen and implemented by Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, the author examines management's efforts to balance service and survival. By showing the effects of hospital restructuring on nurses' ability to plan, evaluate, and deliver excellent care, Weinberg provides a stinging indictment of standard industry practices that underestimate the contribution nurses make both to hospitals and to patient care. ...show less
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Hi all. I have a vessel faucet and it comes with some flexible hose lines. I don't have a picture but if you look here you can get the idea.
http://www.bathroomvesselsinks.com/images/articles/how_to_install_a_vessel_sink/allitems.jpg follow the hose line, #4, to the tine end. on mine it is a 10.5mm nut. you then have to tighten that indo a little hole in the bottom of the faucet. But how? the holes are set into the faucet about an inch, and I can hand twist them in most of the way. But I can't fit needle nose or any wrench in there to finish the job? It's almost a it it needs a very tiny faucet wrench, but I'm not even sure how that will work really becuase thereis such little clearance.
Right now I have them twisted in as tight as I can go, but the design of the flexible hose means that it just spins around the nut now. Something has to actually tighten that nut into the hole to fully seal it. I reckon though this is a common design so there must be a way of doing it? Any ideas? Tks |
Follow-Up Postings:
- Posted by manhattan42 (My Page) on Thu, Oct 22, 09 at 21:03
You need a 'faucet wrench': About $6 US bucks in most locations... |
Here is a link that might be useful: Faucet Wrench
I've found a better picture of the hose nut. http://www.sanliv.com/flexible-tube-m10-x-f38-f05 This is tiny; no facet wrench I've seen would work. It would have to be eyeglass-screwdriver size. Plus it is set in the base of the faucet by 1", so no level access to it. Plus it is right up next to the other hose so even if I could get one in I couldn't get the other. I can't even get needle nose pliers close. I'll try to send a picture today of what I'm talking about. |
Here is a link that might be useful: tiny hose nut
You use a faucet wrench on the hex portion of the hose end if the faucet is already installed. If it is a new unit, you use a regular wrench and attach the faucet end before mounting the faucet. It is probably around 7/16 inch. Metric wrenches are normally only in even millimeters. It should be sticking out since it is set well back from the sealing surfaces. |
One again, there is no way to get a faucet wrench in here. I barely got these tiny angle needle nose pliers in, and I have no leverage to turn the tiny bolt. Please click the link to see the pictures. I can't express enough how small this is. And the bolts are at the bottom where the needle nose tips are. The part of the hose above just spins. I've never heard of any tool that can get in here. There are two o-rings, one is below the surface while the other you can just see. But these have to be turned a couple more rotations to seal them, and I see no way of making them tighter. Unless there is a micro faucet wrench I don't see how. My standard faucet wrench is not even close to small enough. |
Here is a link that might be useful: vessel faucet lines
Hello Kellyllek, How did you end up solving the problem of tightening the flexible hoses that were recessed into your faucet? I have the same exact problem and am trying to figure this one out. Thanks. Tim |
The double o-rings mean that the nut does not have to be all that tight. The seal is form the o-rings, not threads. |
- Posted by weedmeister (My Page) on Sat, May 28, 11 at 4:12
It looks like you would need something like an 'ignition' wrench. These are small wrenches that you can get in packs from Sears and some other places. You would tighten these into the faucet base prior to installing the faucet into the sink top. And not that tight since you would strip the Orings. |
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What you pay is what you get
Did you know that our lovely government takes a large chunk of tax from the sale of a bottle of wine. Duty on still wine is £1.81 a bottle and then you add the VAT on the duty so thats £2.17. Then there's the VAT at 20% on the overall price. So on a £5.00 bottle of wine thats £1.00. Now go and buy your wine at one of our well known supermarkets for £5.00. Before anything take off the £3.17 for duty and vat. That's £1.83 left in the pot. The cost of a bottle, cork, label etc is 80p so we are left with something like a quid to cover the cost of label the grapes, making the wine, the bottling cost, the shipment cost, the distribution cost, the warehouse cost and the profit for all. I say the wine cost nothing. WHAT ARE YOU DRINKING I ASK? CRAP I'D SAY. What else costs nothing?
No better reason then to buy wine from Grainger Fine Wines where you know what you are getting for a very good price. Don't be fooled by the big supermarkets. Generally their offers are for basic wines with no known provenance from big wine dealers who have little knowledge of what is in the wine because they buy wine from other people and stick it in a big tank all together and call it Chateau Sewerage or something more marketable.


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Professional Development
We have a strong commitment to professional development.
We believe in the importance of continually developing and enhancing our skills and capabilities. We attend professional development seminars in photography, videography, and sound production.
We maintain active memberships in professional societies that support the competencies we deliver to our clients.


text:
Reviewed Creamy Cheese Grits
Mar 1, 2013 in Food Network Community Toolbox on FoodNetwork.com
"Okay, so I cheated and used quick cook grits at the risk of being shunned by my Southern friends; but it was all I had! So I made with less broth/liquid than called for, and then mixed in some cream, cheddar cheese and the sauteed onions and peppers at the end. It was really, really delicious. Served with the beef stew with root vegetables, it""
Reviewed Beef Stew with Root Vegetables
Mar 1, 2013 in Food Network Community Toolbox on FoodNetwork.com
"I cut this recipe in half; (uh-oh, a half bottle of beer, what to do?) served with the Creamy cheesy grits, and it was still plenty for my 3 big guys and myself PLUS lunch for my hubby the next day!
I have never cooked with turnips or parsnips before; who knew they were so tasty? Next time I will make the full recipe and freeze..."
Reviewed Salmon Cakes
Mar 1, 2013 in Food Network Community Toolbox on FoodNetwork.com
"Wow! I had some leftover salmon, so I used this recipe- this was so delicious, I would choose this over any crab cake at a fancy restaurant! So easy too! The combination of the bacon, onions and lemon zest compliment the salmon perfectly. I served it with a spicy lemon mayo on the side as a appetizer, but I think next time I will make as a mea""
Reviewed Foolproof Standing Rib Roast
Dec 26, 2011 in Food Network Community Toolbox on FoodNetwork.com
"Did this for Christmas and it was excellent! Also used a mix of salt/pepper spices and crushed garlic to make a paste. Put the roast in and the probe thermometer registered 41 degrees. After the one hour at 375 using the convection too, it was at 80, and I thought, there was no way it would work. In 1 1/2 hours it was at 120. So I fired up t..."


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Future's depth and reach of content makes us the world's number one cycling publisher and the portfolio continues to grow with further investment in new launches.
Online, our BikeRadar network now attracts over three million unique visitors every month. Recently redesigned cyclingnews.com now attracts 1.9 million unique users a month, making it the worlds biggest single cycling website, while bikeradar.com attracts 1.5 million unique users per month. Our success is underpinned by our constant product review process and our 24/7 editorial team in the UK, US and Australia, delivering unique content from the most experienced team of cycling journalists in the world. They bring together the very best reviews, features and product testing from across our cycling portfolio.


text: POPSUGAR Celebrity POPSUGAR Celebrity Celebs Arrive at the Critics Choice Awards by Celebrity 1/08/09 0 Shares Print 0 0 0 0 0 Previous Photo 1 of 136 View on One Page ADVERTISEMENT ( more slides) Next Share This Link Copy 1 Celebs Arrive at the Critics Choice Awards Previous Photo 1 of 136 View on One Page ADVERTISEMENT ( more slides) Next 0 0 0 0 0 Get the scoop with our daily newsletter Enjoy the latest news on the celebs you love. Movies TV Young Hollywood A Listers Sign up with jeneeena 6 years it proves that brangelina could be snubbed some times... wildflower509 6 years Oh yes, Brad and Angie didn't "steal the show".....they WERE the show, as is their norm. At every event they attend, the performance is the same as when you replace the male figure with one from the past....just look at clips in the bio's. Always that same "so in love" look from Angie....whether it's her brother James, her Ex Billy Bob, Jonnie Miller, or Jenny Schimazu....acting, it's called acting Link Love Taylor Swift's hackers threaten to release nude photos — Us Weekly Get to know Shonda Rhimes's potential new TV show — HuffPost Celebrity Is Zach Galifianakis trying to take after Joaquin Phoenix? — Lainey Gossip Did Lindsay Lohan fall behind on her community service? — Dlisted Drew Barrymore gets candid about her childhood — ET Here's what Alexander Skarsgard thinks of all the gossip — JustJared Hilary Duff isn't afraid to go out without makeup — Hollywood Tuna Prince might be working on something for the Grammys — Pink Is the New Blog Drake is facing some bizarre Instagram accusations — The Superficial Latest Celebrity


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Check out the latest member of the jury at Ponderosa. Will Ponderosa be a more exciting place with him around? Will RC continue to laugh every time she talks?
What does Penner think about playing the game after 80 Survivor days? Credits to Nevim Dal for the vids.
Part 1


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Cleveland Mayor Tom Rowland appointed four City Council members to an ad hoc education committee earlier this week, to study funding possibilities for the new elementary school on Georgetown Road.
Rowland said after seeing the results of a temporary committee focused on animal control, "I appointed a similar ad hoc study committee this week to study and make funding recommendations for the new proposed elementary school on Georgetown Road."
The mayor said smaller groups often work better outside the setting of a formal Council meeting. A meeting date has not been set.
"I appointed councilmen George Poe, Dale Hughes, Charlie McKenzie and Vice Mayor Avery Johnson to work with City Manager Janice Casteel to explore all funding options," he said. "I charged this committee to seek out all options and to move as rapidly as possible because time is of the essence. We need to finalize plans for the much-needed elementary school to meet our community's growth."
The ad hoc committee will make recommendations to the full Cleveland City Council, which will make the final decision on the funding options.
The seven members of the full Council have discussed new school construction for at least a year, but earnest discussion began Aug. 13 when Cleveland City Schools Director Dr. Martin Ringstaff presented them a school design for 700 students costing $18.1 million or $140 per square foot.
Ringstaff returned two weeks later with a scaled-down version that would accommodate 560 students at a cost of $16.4 million. The new design reduced the total gross area from 116,228 square feet to 104,594 square feet by eliminating one wing of the school containing a science lab and eight classrooms.
The core areas such as the cafeteria would accommodate 700 students. The wing eliminated in the revised drawing could be added later as the student population continues to grow.
The school site is on 20 acres on the east bank of Candies Creek on Georgetown Road. Grade work is finished and "pad ready."
Growing student enrollment, particularly in E.L. Ross and Yates Primary schools, is pressuring the city system for additional classroom space.
Bradley County Schools also faces the same problem of funding construction, but is not expected to borrow money until fiscal year 2016-17. When that happens, the city will receive one-third of the proceeds.


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Man City 1-0 Bolton: Match Report
Mixed day for City matchwinner TevezCarlos Tevez gave Manchester City a 1-0 victory over Bolton with his 10th goal of the season to keep up the pressure on the Barclays Premier League leaders.However, the Argentina striker seemed ill at ease as the Trotters' five-match unbeaten run came to an end.Tevez picked up his fifth booking of the campaign and will miss the match against West Ham on Saturday.So too will Aleksander Kolarov, who is also facing a ban after being dismissed by referee Andre Marriner for two yellow cards.Tevez ended the game giving manager Roberto Mancini an ear-bashing when he was replaced by James Milner in the final minute.City should have won by more than one goal with both Mario Balotelli and David Silva seeing shots come back off the woodwork.Tevez did not have long to wait until making the breakthrough. Yaya Toure slipped the ball through the middle in the fourth minute and Gary Cahill failed to deal with it.That allowed the club captain to drill a shot into the corner for City's first goal at home since October.City then made an unsuccessful appeal for a penalty in the 14th minute when Silva's shot was blocked by Cahill. TV Replays showed the ball had come off the defender's shoulder and his arm.Bolton responded and goalkeeper Joe Hart did well three minutes later to turn a free-kick from former City winger Martin Petrov around the post.City were having the majority of possession but Tevez in an attempt to win the ball off Sam Ricketts picked up a booking that will see him take a short break.Then Pablo Zabaleta got into a good position in the area and attempted to lob Jussi Jaaskelainen. But he made mess of it, scooping the ball up and it was easily blocked.City kept up the pressure and Tevez was being afforded too much room in and around the area. The striker got on the end of a cross from Zabaleta but sent his effort over the bar before miskicking in sight of goal.Bolton carved out a good chance in the 47th minute when Kevin Davies fired a shot narrowly over the bar following a cross from Ricketts.Zabaleta, however, nearly made it 2-0 in the 55th minute following a sweeping move that cut Bolton open.It was started by Silva, who was putting in a hard shift. He picked out Yaya Toure and he played the ball on to Zabaleta.The full-back made good contact but Cahill was well positioned and cleared it to safety.Bolton were being over-run at this stage and Balotelli was beginning to make an impact after a quiet first half.He smacked one effort against the outside of the post before seeing another booted clear by Jaaskelainen.Then Silva was out of luck in the 61st minute with a quick turn and shot that rattled the bar.Bolton were struggling but Johan Elmander tried his luck with an overhead kick four minutes later that ended in the arms of goalkeeper Hart.They almost equalised in the 71st minute following an error by Hart, who climbed on the back of Joleon Lescott when Ricketts delivered a free-kick from distance.The ball finished behind the England goalkeeper but luckily for him Vincent Kompany cleared off the line.City were then reduced to 10 men in the 79th minute with Kolarov picking up his second booking of the game for a challenge on Ricketts.Tevez then vented his anger at Mancini as City went on to seal a narrow win.
Man City 1-0 Bolton: Match Report - view commentary, squad, and statictics of the game as it happened.
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I colleague of mine sent me a picture from her garden of what I found out was Sanguinaria canadensis "Multiplex" ("Double Bloodroot"). What a stunner! (Here it is from a few weeks ago) Well I guess I was so effusive in my praise of the photo that lucky me, she brought me a 'piece' of her plant. Please tell me how it does in your garden. |
Follow-Up Postings:
- Posted by SunnyBorders 5A (My Page) on Thu, Jun 19, 14 at 17:27
Picture: Merlin's Hollow (May 10, 2014). Rouge, David gave us some about five years ago. I don't think it spreads as quickly as single bloodroot, but it's quite hardy and very reliable here. I'd say we get more show from our trilliums than from the single blood root. On the other hand, I'd say the double bloodroot really is an impressive plant. |
- Posted by illinoisdoglover z5IL (My Page) on Thu, Jun 19, 14 at 17:58
I grow the single flowering bloodroot, but have been trying to find someone that would be willing to trade. If interested, send me an email. Thank You. |
Rouge, the single definitely bulks up more quickly, but the double is absolutely gorgeous! One of my favorite spring plants. |
""SWOON>> That double is spectacular! I adore bloodroot! Why they don't grow in my garden is beyond me. I have tried so many times. They will return for a year or two and then disappear. I had so many roots I got from someone through the mail one year I shared some with my next-door neighbor, and she planted them around her patio. I now have none while she has a buttload...go figure. Only thing I think it might be is the chipmunks or voles eat the rhizomes, because I don't notice any when I'm digging in areas I've planted them. She has multiple cats; no varmit in its right mind, even if it is a tiny mind, would hang out next to her patio leisurely munching on bloodroot with those fat cats moseying around... |
- Posted by pitimpinai z6 Chicago (My Page) on Thu, Jun 19, 14 at 20:47
Oh....man, double bloodroot! Someone actually has double bloodroot!! SWOON is right! I have only seen it in a book!!! DROOLING!!! Lucky you to get a piece of it. I only have single bloodroot that a friend gave me a few years ago. It is slowly multiplying. Where are you folks located? How did she get hold of double bloodroot to begin with? Curiosity is killing me. :-) |
Gardenvisions sells it. They are a very small epimedium speciality nursery in western ma. They have open weekends a couple times a year and sell at selected 'botanical events' in the spring. Shame on me for forgetting the full name of the new owner (Karen), but she's carrying on the business started by Daryl Probst. He has most recently gained recognition with his new coreopsis strains. But he is first and foremost- for us older gardeners- the epimedium guru. Gardenvisions does mail order.Don't know if the window has closed or if they even ship the bloodroots. idabean/marie |
- Posted by illinoisdoglover z5IL (My Page) on Thu, Jun 19, 14 at 21:51
Is there no one interested in trading? They are worth a nice size trade. email me thru my email, can not respond thru GW mail. |
I love both my single and my double bloodroot. The single blooms very early for me and the double a bit later. I got one double bloodroot from the MN Arboretum at their spring sale in 2011. It is slowly expanding. |
That is gorgeous...and surpasses single (and I don't feel that way about many dbl flowers) |
- Posted by SunnyBorders 5A (My Page) on Thu, Jun 19, 14 at 23:04
As some know, 'Multiplex' has an interesting horticultural history. Although there are partially-double/ semi-double forms of bloodroot, only the fully double one can be called 'Multiplex'. H. Lincoln Foster's research, published in the Connecticut Plantsman (1975), doesn't seem to be disputed; namely, that all 'Multiplex', grown in all gardens, comes from a single plant, discovered in Dayton, Ohio, in 1917. It seems hard to believe. |
This post was edited by SunnyBorders on Thu, Jun 19, 14 at 23:12
Garden Visions does carry it for only $18, and is shipping through June. Then you have to wait till September to order. Remember the post on the demise of local nurseries? This tiny one is a labor of love and the plants are excellent quality.In addition to about 150 epimediums they have a limited number of other wildflowers, some of which I've never seen listed anywhere else.They are at the very end of the on line catalogue, so scroll down if you don't want to get sidetracked by the epimediums. Marie |
Edelweiss Perennials also carries it (also $18) as does Plant Delights (for $28!) |
I want to second the quality of Garden Visions plants and the customer service of this tiny nursery. |
- Posted by prairiemoon2 zone 6a/MA (My Page) on Fri, Jun 20, 14 at 7:10
I've ordered many times from Garden Visions for their extensive collection of epimediums and have always been quite happy with the experience. |
- Posted by shadeyplace 7 (My Page) on Fri, Jun 20, 14 at 11:43
this is a wonderful plant the leaves become very large and remain most of the summer unlike the single. If you want to increase>>just cut those red tubers in half or more and replant. |
It spreads so quickly and voraciously, I'd almost call it thuggish. It's growth far outstrips the single form. All in all, it's a very nice plant. The flowers and foliage persist for a much longer time than the single form, and I assume that's what makes it such a good grower. The high prices are unjustified, considering it's growth rate. |
- Posted by pitimpinai z6 Chicago (My Page) on Sat, Jun 21, 14 at 9:57
No kidding?! Great. My single spreads very, very slowly. I just placed an order for 5 'Multiplex' yesterday. I hope to see them bloom before we sell this house. |
ninamarie some reports say that it is slow to expand (but faster than the single version)...weird. The price can be crazy as I saw it the other day at an independent nursery for almost $50! |
- Posted by illinoisdoglover z5IL (My Page) on Sat, Jun 21, 14 at 12:16
Amazing the different opinions on this plant. One says that it is a slow grower yet some say it spreads so fast. Probably because they may not be growing in the correct conditions. I know one can purchase just about any type of plant from a nursery/grower somewhere, but like most of the plant traders on this site and others, we like to trade plants. In my opinion, it is not that much more rarer than a lot of perennials some of us have in our garden collections. .It has not gone extinct or is not a invasive plant that gardeners should not be spreading around. Just have not gone out of my way to purchase it. Just need someone that is willing to "Share" in exchange for something else. I understand some gardeners do not want other folks to have some rare or unusual plants making their gardens "special", but I thought most gardeners are willing to "share" some of their pride and joy plants. I will keep hoping that one day, someone will have some to share/trade, and I am quite sure there are many others on this site thinking the same thing but just do not want their thoughts known. Anyway, have fun gardening and a wonderful year. The single form spreads very easily, just take a little time and being patient. |
That is a beautiful plant. Karen |
- Posted by shadeyplace 7 (My Page) on Sat, Jun 21, 14 at 12:33
I don't think it is a question of not wanting to "share". I am willing to share anything in my garden>>but not by mail. I got into that years ago on another garden site...packing up, making sure they are wet, mailing off and frequently being told they did not arrive in "good" condition. It is not worth my time...I am not a mail order nursery. Enjoy the pictures or just order one. |
- Posted by illinoisdoglover z5IL (My Page) on Sat, Jun 21, 14 at 13:44
shadeyplace. Sorry you had problems with folks you traded with thru the mail. I guess you must have ran across some difficult folks. I trade and send using Priority Mail, always 2-3 days, and only send early thru the week so plants do not sit at post office over the week-end. Perhaps you may have sent them to wet or too dry. Knowing how each plant grows and how the " nurseries or growers" ship, it is easy. They have to ship their plants when ordered thru the mail, but it can be confusing. I understand it is easier to share with neighbors and folks that live close by. Never meant for anyone to think we would expect you or anyone else to be a mail order nursery. Perhaps you may have sent them to wet. Good luck with your gardening and I understand about your not wanting to mail plants, it is understandable, |
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