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I'm looking at buying a crazy amount of seeds from pepper joe. As in $400 worth of seeds. The seeds are as follows. Carolina reaper, ghost, giant ghost, paper lantern, volcano in a box, fire in a box, 8 pack tomatoes, brain strain 7 pot, yellow devils tongue, red savina, box of dynamite, chocolate scorpion, yellow moruga, buch t scorpion, naga viper, douglah pepper, yellow7 pot, red brain strain, naga morich, yellow ghost, francisca, fatalii, chocolate habanero, scotch bonnet, Caribbean chili and habanero, Tasmanian habanero, white habanero, golden habanero, Jamaican pepper, spicy mustard, chipotle jalape�o, Fresno, maules red, jalape�o lover 5pack, cayenne bush 8fter (tree), Yahtzee, Thai sun, Tabasco, cayenne 6 pack, 5color marble, cascabella, peperoncini, fushimi sweet, Bolivian rainbow, Peter pepper rainbow, ancho, atomic starfish, datil, yellow lemon drop, filius blue, chili hot, paprika, corona di toro, yellow corno di toro, Antonio Romanian, canary yellow, mini bell, chocalate bell, king of the north, Aconcagua, golden Marconi, sweet banana, sweet crimson, cubanelle, keystone and Chinese giant. I'm seriously looking at starting a small business by growing this amount of peppers, then planting their seeds gathered from the peppers, into growing up to thousands of plants and harvesting and selling the peppers both whole and ground into a powder. For me with this sheer number of plants, the only way to go is hydroponics. I have researching joe's deeply to determine if he is legit or not. I found one guy who's not. Robsrareandgiantseeds.com scam artist the whole way. Hundreds of negative reviews on amazon. I looked up pepper joe one site, he's legit, another he's not, raises cost and makes up names for profit. Note, I know I doubled up by putting down packs and didn't remove their containing seeds. I am looking for first hand testimonial regarding germination rate, and if the seeds he sent are what they grew. As well as does he back his guarrentee on germination rate. |
Follow-Up Postings:
- Posted by mistyreiny 10 (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 15:21
Also I am looking for a site that is as thorough as pepper joe. The only Reqs are they must have reaper and ghost. |
I am a newbie, so just take my opinion with a grain of salt. I ordered Carolina Reapers from him just a few months ago, and have had only one seed germinate out of 24 viable looking seeds that I received (purchased 20). Going on 11 days now, so have a few days to go before I give up. Now, I'm using the paper towel method and a heating mat, so that will probably sacrifice many of the seeds compared to the traditional method. But I am also germinating 7-pots, Murugas, and Fatalli Reds and am having 20 times (20 to 1) the germination rates on those (so far). Same method, same temp, same moisture. Those seeds came out of ripe pods last season from fellow forum members. Again, just my two cents, grain of salt, opinion... Don't expect high germination rates, the way I did it. I'm sure you will hear many different opinions though. Update 2/8/14 - I have had a total of 6 Carolina Reaper Seeds Germinate out of 24. The first set of leaves also have a hard time sprouting free from the seed itself. |
This post was edited by kclost on Sat, Feb 8, 14 at 10:07
There are many internet seed stores. Not every one might have everything you want. But at $400 ticket, you can procure your seed needs from two, three or more sources. Just google pepper seeds, I know one site with limited number of varieties. It is Sample Seed Shop. The prices are right at $1.50 or less.They are more dedicated to tomatoes then peppers though. |
I'll preface this by saying I am not a customer of this vendor nor will I be in the future. Type his name into the search engine at the top right, go get some popcorn and a beverage of your choice, sit back and get ready to read some long threads where this vendor is mentioned. |
- Posted by Bill_Missy 8b (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 16:19
- Posted by mistyreiny (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 16:39
To bill missy, plz explain your comment with I ordered from him and I never received the seeds or zero germination or the seeds were not whatever they were stated to be or whatever your reasoning is. On a side note; thank you seysonn, the name of sample seed shop is what I really needed. The names of legit seed shops. I don't really want to go onto amazon to get reaper and super hot seeds, for you will not know what you bought until 9 months later. As is my problem right now. Now I really need a shop with all the super hots: reaper, 7 pot, scorpion, definitely red savina, and chocolate versions of at least one. I don't care if multiple sites get listed that together meet all the superhots |
This post was edited by mistyreiny on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 16:46
- Posted by Bill_Missy 8b (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 16:54
I strongly suggest what NEOGUY stated above. I have posted to several threads on this matter and I strongly recommend you read those threads before you purchase from that vendor. This is just my thoughts, recommendations and advice in regards to this subject. Bill |
Do some research with this vendor. In the past, he has hired attorneys to write letters threatening lawsuits for defaming him or Penny, or for negative posts about his product to deflect any blame from himself. He will almost always come after you if you have a negative comment or review and always beware of the threat of a lawsuit. Caveat Emptor with this vendor. This is not the kind of vendor I want to deal with. Not to mention the confirmed and blatant fact they renamed varieties for marketing purposes. |
Do some research with this vendor. In the past, he has hired attorneys to write letters threatening lawsuits for defaming him or Penny, or for negative posts about his product to deflect any blame from himself. He will almost always come after you if you have a negative comment or review and always beware of the threat of a lawsuit. Caveat Emptor with this vendor. This is not the kind of vendor I want to deal with. Not to mention the confirmed and blatant fact they renamed varieties for marketing purposes. |
Sorry for the duplicate message |
- Posted by kypepperman 6 (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 17:43
i will save my comments about joe to myself. but i will probably not buy from him again. if you want ed curries smoking eds Carolina reaper tm seeds then i would recommend https://www.buckeyepepper.com// |
- Posted by LeafEricson 6 (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 17:45
Mistyreiny, I would not buy from him just on hearsay. Also I hear he sells seeds at a dollar a piece, what are they made of gold or can I smoke those seed and get crazy high? Anyway if your in NJ I would love to get in on a business. Carolina Reaper is protect by laws, it can not be grown for sale in the form of fruit, plant and seed without permission. I think that should be against the law but that is just my opinion. I have some reaper seeds from a seed trade and I plant on growing them out and giving away as many seeds as I can just to say ha! What you have done is wrong. Just like Monsanto, they own Caribbean Red, why? Because they can. Some of the seeds you are looking for I have an abundance of. Check the link, free seeds for everyone!!! |
Here is a link that might be useful: Free Seeds For Everyone
This post was edited by LeafEricson on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 17:52
- Posted by judo_and_peppers Tampa FL (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 17:48
in all the time I've been reading about hot peppers online, I've yet to see a single positive thing said about pepper joe. everything from buying one variety and receiving another, to not receiving anything at all, to not having any germination. add to that the fact that he is charging ridiculous amounts of money and trying to pretend he owns the rights to seeds (who is he, monsanto?) and it's just one big bunch of fail. seriously, what redeeming qualities does he have? look up hell hot peppers. I bought seeds from them last year. reasonable prices, great customer service, great germination rates, and everything grew true. he has most of the items on your list, if not all of them (been a while since I looked). |
- Posted by mistyreiny 10 (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 17:55
Scratch buying from pepper joes, I decided not to deal with him, why waste 6-9 months for the wrong pepper to grow?im just gonna run with reputable companies like gurneys, burpees, the sample seed shop anybody know of anything else? |
I would suggest trade winds fruit company. They sell alot of seeds and at a fair price. Never dealt with that other vendor as I was skeptical as well. Good luck. Also I think it is crazy for someone to claim they own the seeds or strain. Grow them and sell them, they belong to you. Good luck! |
- Posted by missingtheobvious Blue Ridge 7a (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 19:27
Sample Seed is a great small vendor; I've been very happy with their seeds and service. And Remy has been a GW member for many years. http://www.sampleseeds.com/?page_id=2797 |
- Posted by darkstar22 (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 19:42
I've bought many live plants from Cross Country Nurseries, and they have been the true plant as advertised. They sell seeds , but I have not ever ordered seeds from them. However as stated, the live plants are exactly what I ordered, and all have arrived healthy. |
- Posted by darkstar22 (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 19:48
I harvested seeds from my plants that I bought from them, and germinated some by paper towel method, and some by direct sowing 3 weeks ago, and had excellent results. I am only a customer, and have no affiliation whatsoever with them. I just ordered 6 new varieties of plants from them for this year. |
- Posted by smokemaster_2007 (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 20:59
Trade or SASBE. PM me. The name is,to my knowledge copywrited for Ed's reaper. You can call what you grow anything but the copywrited name. Lots of REAPER seeds and pods going around out there. Lots of reaper versions out there,I personally don't think it is stable. I'm suprised he hasn't already posted how great he is on this post yet... |
This post was edited by smokemaster_2007 on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 21:03
- Posted by LeafEricson 6 (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 21:04
Cross Country Nurseries is now an official seller of Carolina Reaper. So if you insist on buying seeds then I can reassure you they are a very reputable grower. I went to their greenhouses last year and they are wonderful, everything I bought grew true to its name. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Cross Country Nurseries
- Posted by pier_man0909 none (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 21:40
mistyreiny, send me an email at email@example.com I may be able to help. I have heard some good things about pepper joe and some bad things. way too many bad things for me to buy from him. |
- Posted by mistyreiny 10 (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 21:51
Crosscountry nurseries all the way. Without a doubt. Sorta local too, in New Jersey, I'm delaware. Just across the bay lol. |
- Posted by mistyreiny 10 (My Page) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 22:37
Cross country nurseries unless anybody has anything bad to say about them. I did see the one negative comment about them on google, David's garden I think. Bad customer service, but everything regarding the seeds holds true. Screw pepper joe I'm going with reputable dealers like c.c.n. |
- Posted by lundaesundae (email@example.com) on Fri, Jan 31, 14 at 22:40
I can't speak from a large order like that, but i would recommend Fatalii.net. The guy who runs it is very nice and i recall seeing some of the peppers you were looking for posted on there. I did have some damaged pepper seeds, but for one variety that was damaged and i had no germination he sent replacement seeds. I really haven't had customer service quite like it and it was a nice surprise. Can't hurt to have a look or email the guy. |
Here is a link that might be useful: fatalii seed listing
24 replies in 7 hours with "pepperjoe" being in the subject line of the post? I've never ordered from him, but with that kind of feedback in such a short period of time tells ME one thing --- take heed! Too much controversy over the years surrounding this guy. With many well reputed online stores available, I, myself, would take my business elsewhere. Just my opinion. Kevin |
- Posted by smokemaster_2007 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 9:02
I buy from Tomato Growers , Tropical seed , US hot stuff , RAINBOW CHILI SEEDS(Mostly,Vladan is REALLY cool) and a few other vendors. Peppermania WAS very cool but Beth has dropped the ball in the last couple seasons. She isn't taking care of the seed sales anymore in a timely manner. She has been a personal friend of mine so I don't post this easily. To put it bluntly don't order seeds from her. She does seem to keep up with her other sales of bottles etc. from what I see. Trades these days are mostly crosses with super hots... |
- Posted by pepperdave none7 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 9:12
I think Joe just lost a $400 order |
My experience hasn't been bad with him. 5 years back I had some bolivian rainbows come out in weird shapes and almost black, but other than that I got as expected. |
I think what's turned me off to him is his obsession with having the "world's hottest pepper." Of course, that has invited a lot of fights on the internet. Not my thing. |
- Posted by mistyreiny 10 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 10:36
Pepper save you most certainly right. But chileplants.com earned it. |
- Posted by mistyreiny 10 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 10:38
That was supposed to be pepper Dave. Autocorrect on iPads works too well. |
Another big yes vote for Cross Country Nurseries. I had nearly all my seedlings die last year, if it hadn't been for CCN I would have had a really sad season. |
- Posted by mistyreiny (My Page) on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 12:02
Anybody know why I heard this? That carolina reapers are illegal to sell? Is it the name that is copywrited? Or the pepper itself? HAs anybody else heard this? |
This post was edited by mistyreiny on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 14:01
- Posted by pepperdave none7 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 12:30
Cross Country sells reaper 20 seed for what Joe wants for 10. They sell the plants for $6 if you cant start your own other super hots are $4 good selection. I live in NJ also and have met reps from them at local farm markets an they seem very knowledgeable. 12 years ago they had a good selection and its only gotten better over the years.Back then nobody had superhots Cross Country had the best selection around.I ordered from Joe 25 years ago and had good luck with his seed ,he was in Pa. back then and did not have much competition .Wow theres an eagle outside getting my camera . Ok Im back got the shot |
- Posted by mistyreiny 10 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 15:58
Now I am thinking that, after reading this thread, I'm saying screw pepper joe, he ain't legit nor somebody I can trust nor a business I want to pay. On the other hand I'm going to visit ccn. To buy lots of plants |
- Posted by LeafEricson 6 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 20:53
- Posted by mistyreiny 10 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 23:35
I know it is illegal carolina reaper because he trademarked the name, but hp22b I don't believe can be trademarked. Comments on this are very informative, thank you. |
- Posted by LeafEricson 6 (My Page) on Sun, Feb 2, 14 at 9:42
You may have something there. But I still would not want to end up in court over a pepper that isn't that great anyway. Plenty of other peppers out there, Primo is very similar to CR if not the same. Get some primo and some CR, grow them out and then come back and tell us if you can tell the difference. That is if the CR grows true. not likely, you will probably end up with totally different pods on every plant. |
- Posted by pepperdave none7 (My Page) on Sun, Feb 2, 14 at 9:58
Mistyreiny send me an Email I can just give you some seed you need Im right across the bay from Lewis Its a 3 block walk to watch the ferry come and go. I grew 120 plants right off Ferry Rd Save yourself some $. My check my trade list Im not hurting for what I have . Maybe we can meet at Dogfish Head and I can give you some seed over a good beer. Its popular here to take a bike across the bay and ride the trails to the Pub |
- Posted by scorpion_john 6 (email@example.com) on Mon, Feb 3, 14 at 12:24
Misty, email me. I can send you atleast 20 on your list. John |
I have not personally purchased any thing from pepper joe because I find his prices too high. I have purchased from Sample Seeds and am always happy with what I have gotten from her. Another place you can check for seed is to look at the watchdog list of seed sellers. So far I have only ordered from those companies on the watch 30 list. HOpe this helps Missy |
- Posted by flipback23 9 SF Bay (My Page) on Fri, Feb 7, 14 at 17:30
Man all these bad reviews has me worried. Being new to the pepper growing scene at least from seeds I bought some reapers and butch t trinidads seeds from joe. Should I worry now that the seedlings Ive been babying for the last month are going to be wrong plants.I paid 10 bucks for 10 seeds each and had a good germination ratio on the reaper seeds sowed 7 5 germinated the butch t on the other hand I sowed 7 and only 2 germinated after 4 plus weeks indoors on a heat mat. Man i hope they grow into what I had purchased. |
- Posted by kypepperman 6 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 8, 14 at 8:21
Even though I would not buy from joe again, his customer service is pretty good. make sure that you keep your order number. if you have any problems with them not being correct or germination issues. just let them know and they will make good on your problems. |
- Posted by pepperdave none7 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 8, 14 at 9:39
Im sure you got the right seed.That does not seem to be one of his issues people have.They Were not crushed in the mail They germinated. Your off to a good start. Enjoy Its not to late to get in on a trade. seems you could use a few Butch t"s . Welcome to the Forum . Send out a few Emails and life should be just grand .Save some seed for next year and spread the wealth. That is what Pay Forward is all about. If you can manage to plant things in Isolation you don't even have to write OP on your donations . One of the things I like about this Forum is the total willingness to help other people get what they need . We all have a common goal . You get help this year . Next year you help others. It works |
"If you can manage to plant things in Isolation you don't even have to write OP on your donations." I couldn't disagree more. I want to know if plants are isolated. Isolation by distance, depending your source can be 50' or a half a mile. If you're on a seed train, which I've never done, and you don't care about crosses, than fine. If I'm trading for a specific known commodity I want to know if it is isolated or not. Better yet I'd like to know if the seed source is a commercial supplier. If I trade I will tell you if the seeds are isolated by the bagging method, if they are commercial seed or if they are not isolated. By the way, I've not traded much here at GW but have on other forums. I can tell you I'll have a bunch of Padron and Joe's Long |
- Posted by andrew.hopper2012 Florida (My Page) on Fri, May 23, 14 at 22:29
I bought bolivian rainbow pepper seeds from pepper joe. I had about 90% germination. Right now I have a 2 week old plant and I'm not sure if it bolivian rainbow or something else. Can anybody help identify? |
- Posted by andrew.hopper2012 none (My Page) on Fri, May 23, 14 at 22:33
- Posted by stoneys_fatali 9b Duarte,Ca. (My Page) on Fri, May 23, 14 at 22:53
I don't know what he is but he looks very healthy. Is that one going outside soon? Stoney |
- Posted by andrew.hopper2012 Florida (My Page) on Fri, May 23, 14 at 23:21
I suppose I better start hardening him off and let him get some sun. I've been growing him along in my closet set up with with grow lights. Stays around 85F with high levels on humidity. |
This year I got all my seeds from, store bought (fresh and dry), off the rack at BBS, and a few from generous fellows like Tim and Leaf Erickson. If I had to go to internet , I would definitely go to Sample Seed Shop. They have very low prices , low shipping charges and moderate variety. On the other hand we have to realize that this is a free enterprise. I am against dishonesty and misrepresentation but a seller is free to charge whatever the price he can make a sale. After all this is a sort of hobby line and not a critical thing like medicine and health care product. But we are fortunate to have generous members here who are willing to trade and share. If not reaper, you can get a lot of super hots. |
Those leaves look awful green for Bol. Rainbow, mine have a purplish/blackish tint. Pam |
- Posted by andrew.hopper2012 Florida (My Page) on Sat, May 24, 14 at 10:36
Anybody want to donate bolivian rainbow seeds. I can trade. I have black pearl pepper seeds to trade |
- Posted by kentishman 7 (firstname.lastname@example.com) on Sat, May 24, 14 at 11:32
I've grown Bolivian Rainbow the last couple of years and saved seeds. I'll be pleased to trade with you for Black Pearl. Just send an email and we'll get started. Tom |
- Posted by hotsandiego none (My Page) on Sun, May 25, 14 at 20:06
All the Hot Pepper seeds you will ever need. I work with Jim and he knows his stuff! http://store.myorganicseeds.com/Hot-Pepper-Seeds-C149719.aspx?sid=14895 |
- Posted by stoneys_fatali 9b Duarte,Ca. (My Page) on Sun, May 25, 14 at 20:15
I just ordered seeds from Jim Duffy ^ Very reliable source and germinated fast! Thanks Jim :-) Stoney |
- Posted by hotsandiego none (My Page) on Mon, May 26, 14 at 9:43
Stoney, He had his plant sale at his house this weekend. I picked up a 7pot burgandy Devils tounge and a Red peter pepper. plus a couple sweets. |
Pepper Joe IMO is simply the best site out there for buying seeds. He and Penny's tomatoes are the only site I order from unless they do not have a specific variety that I am looking for. Given a choice I will pick those guys first because the quality of product is worth the price. You get what you pay for! Here is a Carolina Reaper plant from a seed I planted from PepperJoe. I reuse everything so even the pot the reaper is in is used. |
- Posted by greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a (My Page) on Tue, May 27, 14 at 20:11
Man, there are at least twenty seed companies I'd go with before even considering Joe or Penny..... Josh |
I have never had any issues with tomato growers. For some of the more specialty varieties I used https://www.buckeyepepper.com/ Never heard anything good on pepper joes/penny. I'd almost order from ebay before I would either of those two. |
- Posted by andrew.hopper2012 Florida (My Page) on Wed, May 28, 14 at 7:53
Never buy seeds off eBay. I tried to order Bolivian rainbow seeds off eBay and the plant I got from the seeds was jalapeño |
No I know that, I was merely stating I would trust ebay before I would pepperjoe or any of the others that have piss poor reputation. Lol |
Yah, Ebay is probably less than a 50/50 crap shoot. Amazon is probably 60/40. Is PepperJoe still affiliated with Ed Currie regarding the Carolina Reaper? I know when it first came out, they were partnered in promoting it and selling seeds but I never see PJ mentioned in regard to the Reaper any more. |
I think this is funny."Never heard anything good on pepper joes/penny." then what did I just say about Pepper Joes? You know I still have not have had a bad experience with Pepper Joe. I wonder if you guys are just saying He is bad from what you HEARD? Try them out before you trash them. |
- Posted by smokemaster_2007 (My Page) on Sat, May 31, 14 at 10:49
Maybe YOU shouldn't dismiss people's opinions before knowing if they are actual dissatisfied customers. You may be one of the few who didn't get burned. I will never again buy his products,even if he had the last pepper seeds on earth. |
- Posted by greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a (My Page) on Sat, May 31, 14 at 12:52
Exactly. Not only is his product and service suspect, but he's a bully. Josh |
- Posted by Capsaicinaddict none (My Page) on Mon, Jun 2, 14 at 16:22
I got some seeds from Pepper Joe and so far I've got a 100% germination rate. Plants are growing well in my hydroponic system. I got all of the varieties that I ordered in the mail very quickly. I can't speak to the customer service since I haven't had a problem, but I have nothing bad to say about them so far. I think next time I'll order my reaper seeds directly from Puckerbutt because last I looked they're a little cheaper. Definitely states on their website that Carolina Reaper cannot be resold in any form and I can't blame Ed for doing that considering how much time and money he put into breeding the strain and getting it certified. |
Definitely states on their website that Carolina Reaper cannot be resold in any form and I can't blame Ed for doing that considering how much time and money he put into breeding the strain and getting it certified. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Definitely you cannot sell the seeds but you can save your own seeds, for family, friends and give away free for your fellow members (Like me ! hehe.) Just kidding the last part. Ed and joe and the company know it well that they have a short window of time to make some money. Unless the come up with a NEW IMPROVED gimmick. |
Is it really legally possible to prevent someone from selling the seed from something they grow? Bruce |
- Posted by greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a (My Page) on Tue, Jun 3, 14 at 21:01
Bruce, it's illegal to sell the seed as "Carolina Reaper." Josh |
Hmmmmm. OK, thanks Josh. Probably not going to stop the Ebay crowd though. Nope "Carolina Reaper" listings are all over the place on Ebay. Of course, if they are actually Jalapeno Pepper seeds which is more likely, they are technically not breaking the law anyway. hahaha Bruce |
For what it is worth, I purchased about 10 varieties of seeds from PJ this year, before stumbling into this topic. I seeded 7 of them and had close to 85% germination rate. Plants are still very healthy looking now that they are outside. Hopefully they turn out to be what they were advertised to be. I highly recommend Trade Winds Fruit. They have a great variety of hot and sweet peppers. I also purchased some from Pepper Gal. I seeded 3 varieties with mixed results. The Choc Hab's had a 0% germ rate and the seeds looked like crap. Also received about 20 varieties from Leaf Erickson which makes up the bulk of my collection this year. |
- Posted by greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a (My Page) on Wed, Jun 4, 14 at 11:10
Bruce, that of course is fraud of a different kind...using a branded name to sell an inferior product. The Peppadew pepper cannot be sold as Peppadew, either. Josh |
I've read, read and reread this thread many times. I've never ordered from Joe and from what I've read here and elsewhere, I won't. 'Nough said about that. But I've done some research on the various things said about Carolina Reaper. I'm not a lawyer. I have followed 5 legal cases for 10 years where a paralegal and several lawyers, retired judges, law professors, etc. explained the law surrounding the issues. The same company was suing other companies for various things they liked to call violating their "IP." IP stands for intellectual property, a term that has no legal definition as far as I can tell. Trade Mark law, Patent law and Copyright law all get rolled into the term "IP" and some try to apply the law of one to the others. That is not the way it works. So, PBPC, LLC has two Registered Trademarks for the mark "SMOKIN' ED'S CAROLINA REAPER." One for pepper seeds and one for processed peppers. To get the Trademark (from the correspondence) "Applicant must disclaim the descriptive wording "CAROLINA REAPER" apart from the mark as shown ..." Later it goes on to say "Specifically, the attached evidence from Localharvest.org shows this wording is the varietal name for the goods, making it the generic name for the goods and incapable of registration." So, in IMHO it would seem that we and anyone else can call the pepper Carolina Reaper without infringing the trademark (please note I didn't say illegal, this is not criminal law, it is civil law.) So, from what I can tell, no trademark issues for using Carolina Reaper. Next, I searched the US plant patent database. There is no application to get a PVP, Plant Variety Patent, for Carolina Reaper. So, no patent violation to sell the seeds. Even with a PVP you are not limited to what you do with the plants, or products made from them; you would just need a license from the patent holder to sell the seeds and most likely paying a royalty for the privilege, but not an issue anyway. So no patent issues, from what I can tell. I can only attach one link, so if you want the link to the PVP search, let me know and I'll e-mail it to you. Now, in something like this, I can't see how Copyright law would apply. It applies to photos, writing, songs, etc. Once you fix something in a tangible form, it has a copyright on it. That is why all photos found on the internet most likely are under copyright. I won't go into the history of the Berne Convention and when the US finally signed the Treaty, but for close to the last 30 years, once something was written or a photo taken, the person doing that had a copyright in it. For the most part. There are exceptions, but that just means someone else most likely ended up with the copyright. Moving on. So I kept searching. Trying to figure out why people thought it was illegal. Finally I found on Ed's site, after adding seeds to a shopping cart, there is a box to be checked agreeing that you will only use the seeds for personal use without Ed's approval and that this applied to all of his authorized sellers. Not sure how you can put that restriction on others as it is only an agreement between the one seller and the one buyer. So don't get your seeds from a company that has that restriction and I would think you can do what you want with them and the seeds you harvest. Naturally, I didn't check the box and I abandoned the cart. I'm not agree to those terms. So, again, IMHO I can only see contract restrictions on selling seeds, fruit, products from the seeds you get, if you get them from someone who has put those restrictions on the sale. But breaking a contract is different than breaking the law. Of course, they can send you threatening letters, from a lawyer and they can even file a civil suit against you and take you to court. Can they win is another question. Still, it might cost you more than you like. Again, I'm not a lawyer and this is just my opinion and not legal advice. Go do the research yourself and come to your own conclusions. |
Here is a link that might be useful: USPTO Trademark word search
- Posted by greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a (My Page) on Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 3:25
I would assume that the more money one makes selling the seeds or peppers tagged with the Carolina Reaper (Ed's Smokin'...) name, the more money one stands to lose. Small timers and hobbyists have little to fear. Josh |
- Posted by plantsman56 none (My Page) on Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 10:10
the long post above describes the situation fairly well as far as the copyright is concerned, people cannot use the words smoking Joe's Carolina Reaper as part of something they're trying to sell because that is copyrighted. He is also correct in the fact that when you by the seeds from him now you have to click of that box and you are promising you will not selling any of the products afterwards. If you are not willing to cooperate with that situation then you do not buy the seeds. So that is the technicality. He didn't used to not have that on his website. I bought seeds when they first came out from pepper Joe. Both Joe and Ed, neither one of them had any requirements on selling anything afterwards. So at least the seeds that I got originally can be used for peppers for sale and seeds and that kind of thing. I can mention that they are Carolina reapers, but not smoking ed's Carolina reaper. I personally will never buy pepper seeds again from pepper Joe I've gotten seeds three different times. I was able to get fairly good germination at around 80% on one variety, but most of the other ones were below 30 including the Carolina Reapers. I had bought my first set of seeds, already gotten my germination, and I was talking to Joe on an email telling him how bad of the germination I had gotten and I was looking for plants to buy. I couldn't find any plants so I ended up buying more seeds from pepper Joe and I just purchased them.He did not give me any extras he did not try to give me a discount or give me anything because of the poor germination I'd had before. Not only that but the genetic diversity of those original plants was terrible and I had anything from a smooth naga to something that looked like what they were supposed to look like. I have never formally asked for refund, he knew about my situation but when I buy things on multiple occasions and the product was bad I don't need to go through all that effort. I just won't buy anything from that person anymore. I at least have been able to take the genetics from the original Carolina Reapers and took the very best plants in the best pods and have started my own seeds for the next generation of what I'm calling the improved Reapers and already the majority of the plants are producing pods the way they should look. There are plenty of other people who bought seeds with no restrictions on them, like myself, but it is hard to know who is who when buying mail order. I see advertisements for sale of the Fatalii Gormet Jigsaws, and no seeds have ever come out of Finland without the same, no sales attachment to them. Bottom line is, I feel that if you sign you won't sell, you should keep that promise, law or no law. |
- Posted by scott123456 5 (My Page) on Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 11:52
Take the seeds you bought, grow them and harvest new seeds from the new pods. Then call them fill in the blank's reaper. You cannot copyright or patent life. That would be like putting a patent on blue eyes. You can only trade mark the name in this case. How do they keep track of the seeds and peppers they sell, and the seeds and peppers everyone saves from their harvest? FYI I don't sell seeds, peppers, plants , or anything else and I am not a lawyer. |
Groklaw, eh? PJ, please come back. We miss you! DMF EDIT: OOOPS. By 'PJ' I didn't mean the pepper guy. PJ is Pamela Jones who ran Groklaw - now unfortunately defunct. |
This post was edited by DMForcier on Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 21:29
- Posted by ILikePeppers2 5b (My Page) on Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 14:38
Wow I didn't really expect to see this much PJ hate. I am new to maintaining a veggie garden - this is my 2nd season. My first season I just bought seeds from the local garden store. I got about 33% germination on all of my pepper varieties (I blame myself). This year I ordered some of my pepper seeds from Pepper Joe's on recommendation from a friend. I also ordered from a couple other places (High Mowing and KitchenGardenSeeds - also on recommendation). I did order two packets of Cayenne peppers and some Jalapenos in that Pepper Joe order. One of them was delivered as "Cayenne Blend." I'm a pretty laid back guy so it didn't bother me and I didn't complain about it or return them. Plus, some of the Cayenne varieties look pretty cool...and I got two free packets of seeds in varieties that I probably wouldn't have otherwise tried. Anyway, in the end, my germination rates this year were about 80% across the board. The PJ plants are doing fantastic and are producing a ton of beautiful peppers even though I'm in zone 5 and without a spot that gets quite the recommended amount of sunlight. The PJ plants are actually quite a bit more prolific than the equivalent plants from seeds I ordered elsewhere. I would order from Pepper Joe again. I just need to look into how to protect them from cutworms next year, but that's for another thread. I know everything I ordered is less exotic and probably easier to grow than what most of the patrons here prefer. For me, it's a fun hobby and I don't (yet) take it as seriously. I imagine it's very demoralizing to think you're growing a Reaper, only to find out it's something else...but for the casual type like myself, Pepper Joe's is just fine. |
- Posted by greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a (My Page) on Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 15:01
Yes, when you invest four months into growing a plant, only to learn it is something else entirely, it can be quite discouraging. Pepper Joe and Dale Baker are probably the two most despised seed sellers out there. And they've earned every ounce of it. Josh |
- Posted by ILikePeppers2 5b (My Page) on Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 16:28
It's weird, then - because Pepper Joes has a lot of customers who claim satisfaction. Perhaps he's just despised in certain circles. |
Hey Josh, I've never heard of Dale Baker... what's the scoop? Pam Although I found his site - Chocolate Reapers???? |
- Posted by greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a (My Page) on Fri, Jul 18, 14 at 17:13
Certain circles....like most facebook pepper groups and the big one, The Hot Pepper forum. Chocolate Reapers....yeah, there's a whole story behind that, Pam. Search the Hot Pepper page to get a glimpse of what Dale's been doing.... Josh |
DMF (Dennis?) - Yeah, you guessed it, Groklaw. Man I miss that site and Pamela. Finally I've reached the point where, while reading news, I think, Oh, PJ will explain this in a way that makes sense. Then I'll remember, no, she won't. Drat it all. Still, after what I thought was a careful explanation, people still aren't getting it, drat it all. |
- Posted by plantsman56 none (My Page) on Sat, Jul 19, 14 at 8:13
Since it was mentioned, I'm compelled to say that in no way do I hate pepper Joe. I may not buy anything from him again, but that is just a business decision. In the same way, I won't be buying fresh peppers from Dale either. Dale Sr. was a real nice guy who ran a plant nursery and people liked him, bit he quit helping his son and now Dale Jr makes his own decisions, which sounds like are bad decisions. |
No way in hell, ever again with PJoe or Dale Baker. Just don't! Seeds? Nobody has mentioned the number one vendor amongst folks on THP: Judy, at pepperlover.com. Generous, reasonably priced, nice collections, and just a great person to deal with. Janie, of course, at CCN, same deal and of course ships plants; a great guy on THP who has some nice peppers is in The Netherlands, nice heirloom tom and great pepper seeds, Stefan at http://www.tasty-peppers.nl/ and click in link at upper right on USA flag to get website in English. Trade Winds is not bad. For unusual seeds, Peter, at http://www.semillas.de or just type in semillas de and again, on homepage click the Brit flag for English. Bjarne developed the Bhut Orange Copenhagen which is far tastier than any Reaper, although the Reaper variants are better, imo than "original." Bjarne's site is: http://www.bh-froe.com/ZC/ and go down to bottom and click on the Brit flag for English. Grant, in Australia, at Junglerain.com and Neil at The HippySeedCompany, also in Australia. Old Barn/Buckeye is also pretty good in Ohio. If you should happen to live in Western NC or Upstate SC, for live plants, Piedmont Farm and Garden Supply in Spartanburg, S.C. (Way too expensive, for live plant shipping compared to CCN, but can order 1 or fewer than 12 plants.) One could call and see if they have what one wants for walk-in. LOTS of hybrid varieties of supers. So, there are MANY options. And if wanting "true" Bubblegum 7, for instance, ask what gen the seed cross is. I respect Jim Duffy at Refining Fire, for stating when a cross is still unstable. Any of these folks should answer that question via email if they don't state. Even if they do, still ask. If they won't contact ya, don't buy from them. But there are only two that I won't deal with; have already stated who they are, because have dealt with them and gotten burned. Much peace, |
Annie - You mentioned ..."although the Reaper variants are better, imo than "original."" Where can these variants be found? I've done some looking, but can't find them. Thanks! Orekoc |
- Posted by andrew.hopper2012 Florida (My Page) on Sat, Sep 20, 14 at 9:27
I ordered Bolivian Rainbow seeds from him and this is what I got. Nice looking plant but it's definitely not Bolivian rainbow. I think it's Numex twilight Note to self, do don't order from pepper joe again. |
This post was edited by andrew.hopper2012 on Sat, Sep 20, 14 at 13:54
- Posted by plantsman56 none (My Page) on Sat, Sep 20, 14 at 21:47
I know Seriously Hot Peppers has plants available of what they call IR1s, which means improved reaper 1st generation. They have mentioned in THP that they are some of the people who got poor quality genetics from the original reaper seed distribution and have taken their best plants to start this new generation of better quality reapers. +1 on Judy at pepperlover, she is awesome. Good prices and a really nice lady. If I ever need a new type of pepper seed I don't have yet, I check with her first and then go from there. With her, pepper lover is not just a name. |
There is a saying that I often heard while working as marketing director for some.... people that get it however they can and get lots of it , "There is no such thing as bad publicity" For those of us that actually read this thread it's obvious this isn't good for PJ's. The problem is.... the mere title of this thread plus the fact that it continually reemerges creates a situation where the questionable company gets free name recognition through search engines... (google, yahoo... whoever GW cares to include). For those that aren't as avidly interested as we are they just see a name then search that. Boom! The S@#$ talk benefits the Sh#$$er. Maybe someone should start a new thread.... with a name that doesn't give PJ's so much internet search ability . I am sick of seeing the name pop up..... for now.. I do believe in forgiveness if it is warranted dj sorry for the rant. Just had to give it one more boost to the top.. ggggrrrrh. |
Or if we post just 60 more times to this thread, it gets locked and heads for the basement. :) |
djoy - I received your email but since you haven't set your own email preferences up to reveal your address I will have to respond here. On Gardenweb, once the threads have reached 150 posts they become locked so no one can respond. I'm not sure if it's done automatically or a mod does it, since a quick search for "a certain salsa maker" for example, showed some threads reaching 151 posts. Once a thread gets locked it can't be brought to the top with new posts so it heads for the basement (covered with other threads) where only search engines reveal it's presence. 59 to go... |
This post was edited by mecdave on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 20:27
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Sun, Sep 21, 14 at 19:16
Carolina Reaper seeds.. Now this is funny.... 58 to go |
- Posted by phepper-schmo (My Page) on Sun, Sep 21, 14 at 20:45
Apparently 57 to go. |
This post was edited by phepper-schmo on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 6:49
This may be a duplicate post. |
I'm starting to think this is a duplicate post. |
Okay, this is definitely a duplicate post. |
Just sos you know. |
- Posted by ottawapepper 5a (My Page) on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 18:14
So DMForcier, was it really a duplicate post? |
- Posted by ottawapepper 5a (My Page) on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 18:15
Or was it really a duplicate duplicate post? |
- Posted by ottawapepper 5a (My Page) on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 18:17
Seriously though, I really think it was a post (cubed). JMHO |
Super, only XLIX to go! |
- Posted by ottawapepper 5a (My Page) on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 19:03
mecdave, I'll call your XLIX with a XLIIX Really, can we do hex, octal or binary. The Roman stuff just seems so... ok, Roman ;-) |
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 19:23
^ Pawned ^ |
- Posted by ottawapepper 5a (My Page) on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 19:31
Armature. I mean really, that's grade school stuff. Besides, there's a error in the third equasion. Get with the game northeast_chileman. 4f/5 ??? |
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 19:32
- Posted by ottawapepper 5a (My Page) on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 19:43
LOL Thanks |
- Posted by ottawapepper 5a (My Page) on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 20:28
Hey northeast_chileman Since we're totally off topic, here's one back at you ;-)) |
This post was edited by ottawapepper on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 15:46
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 21:04
The straw that broke the camels back? |
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 21:05
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Mon, Sep 22, 14 at 21:07
- Posted by Bill_Missy 8b (My Page) on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 0:16
Hey, I think I have seen this post before.... Is it a duplicate post that has been seen before? Maybe it is a duplicate of a post in reference to another duplicate post I have seen before, because I could swear I saw this duplicate of another duplicate some time ago on a duplicate post. I don't know.... Maybe to many beers after I duplicated the first one once since the first duplicate was gone... HMMmmm My name is Bill... Sorry, duplicated |
- Posted by Bill_Missy 8b (My Page) on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 0:19
Dang, Sorry. Duplicate post. Must delete... |
Aaeyaeyai..... ....... why do I feel uneasy about all this garbage...... |
Aaeyaeyai..... ....... why do I feel uneasy about all this garbage...... |
Aaeyaeyai..... ....... why do I feel uneasy about all this garbage...... DOH!! Dang triple post! Hate it when that happens. |
Since this thread turned into a free-for-all.... What do you think about this pic I'm gonna put on my salsa jars?... Haha! My wife's friend is gonna get stickers made |
ANOTHER DUPLICATE ?!? NNOOOoooo... |
wow... I don't open a thread, who cares, it's about PJ (I really hate that since it's also my initials), well, get bored, so I click on it... boy, it's amazing what goes down when the adults leave the room .. Love the HADRON Bill... and DMF... GROSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pam |
Oh, you haven't heard about cow farts devastating the planet? IIRC God told Noah that the next time would be fire. It therefore follows that ... .. . wait. "Adults"? |
No, gross in the poor computer person who bloodies himself senseless with eyeballs flying all around.. Gross!......... but cute............ Pam but. seriously, if cow farts are destroying the earth... doesn't that mean eat more cows?? not go vegan... you go vegan it will just get worse. ;-) |
This post was edited by kuvaszlvr on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 15:38
Haha! Dennis, I was gonna do something similar to your cow picture up there, but I was afraid of getting the torch "too close for comfort." It was hot enough holding it next to my face! Plus, we had to take 4 pictures to get it just right. Never mind "downstairs" |
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 17:12
Boy has this thread gone in many directions, my kitty doesn't know what to make of it! |
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 17:19
Let's get it back on track! |
I'm reporting you for kitty abuse! |
- Posted by plantsman56 none (My Page) on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 20:02
I know you all are trying to blow through the posts, but I don't care who you are, the cow fart was funny. :-) :-) I have to show that to everyone at hot pepper night next Monday! |
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 20:02
She got herself into the bathtub. You stick your arm into the non-de-clawed maelstrom to help her. (;>)))) |
- Posted by plantsman56 none (My Page) on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 20:04
Oh yea, did I mention I like the cow picture? |
- Posted by plantsman56 none (My Page) on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 20:05
I just checked, I DID say I liked the picture! |
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 20:06
I think they should be forced to wear asbestos underwear! |
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 20:09
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Tue, Sep 23, 14 at 20:15
Who's to blame for the current CA wildfires? |
Mike, You should send OSHA a couple bottles of your sauce. Hehe! dj |
DJ- haha! "OSHA" Sauce... "OH SH!T, HOT A$$" sauce! |
FDA: "We do not approve." |
This post was edited by DMForcier on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 21:59
.The most horrible kind... |
This post was edited by DMForcier on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 17:39
Explanation needed? |
This post was edited by DMForcier on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 17:36
Still counting... |
This post was edited by DMForcier on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 17:34
Yeah! Ill take. Couple bottles of the non approved OSHA sauce. |
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 18:01
7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 "> |
- Posted by northeast_chileman 6a (My Page) on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 18:21
Helping with the countdown to 150 |
I just edited a previous post to remove the name of a certain salsa maker that I had mentioned. Didn't want folks to find this thread when searching for directions for her salsa. ;) 3 to go... |
Yep. |
Almost there. |
- Posted by plantsman56 none (My Page) on Wed, Sep 24, 14 at 22:04
I have really enjoyed this thread and thought I should end it with an on topic post. I just wanted to say I will never buy seeds from Pepper Joe again because of the lack of quality of the seeds I purchased. The reaper seeds had way too much genetic diversity and also had very poor germination rates. I am ending up throwing away 2/3 of the plants I got, so after buying 5 packs of reaper seeds, I got 3 good plants to work with. I bought these packs in two different batches. I had even mentioned to Joe how poor my germination rate was on the first batch and they did nothing to help me out when I bought the second batch. I bought 3 other types of seeds and got even less of a germination rate. He does send extra seeds with an order, but they are something I don't want and either give them away or throw them away. I have found sources where I get excellent germination rates and I do task well worth my own seeds, so I do know how to germinate seeds. And now, die thread die. |
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"The big thing you have to admire about Ted Koppel is that he won't be bullied into saying anything that isn't the truth, be it about the news or about a supposed-news organization like Fox 'News'. While appearing on Bill O' Reilly's show, he basically lambastes the network for not being a true news network and brands them a 'business' -- nothing more, nothing less.
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Then, when O'Reilly says the difference between FoxNews and MSNBC is that Fox does HARD NEWS, you can almost sense Koppel is going to break out in a loud laugh. He is kinder and more thoughtful in his response than that, but you know he must be thinking it. Feeling it. From his gut.
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NAGPUR: Nagpur University's newly elected student council representatives were installed at a ceremony on Saturday. Fifteen students from different colleges were nominated on the board.
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In the workshop that followed the ceremony, students were informed about facilities available during admission and funds arranged by the university for medical aid. They were also awarded a certificate for participation in the programme.
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Can Vanity Motivate Fruit & Vegetable Consumption?
When all else fails, appealing to a person's sense of vanity can often be the most powerful motivator.
We have all heard the five-a-day consumption rule on fruits and vegetables ad nauseam, but for some, the message just hasn't penetrated. Perhaps, instead of extolling the health benefits of these foods, we should tell people what researchers at the University of St. Andrews in Fife, Scotland, recently discovered: eating approximately 3-3.5 portions of fruits and veggies per day can not only make you healthier--it can actually make Caucasians look better by giving skin tone a carotenoid boost in a matter of weeks.Call it nature's foundation makeup, but the orange-red pigments found in fruits and vegetables can visibly change your skin tone, according to a study published in the February 2012 issue of the American Journal of Public Health (102 [2], 207-11).
"Diet and skin-color were recorded at baseline and after 3 and 6 weeks, in a group of 35 individuals who were without makeup, self-tanning agents and/or recent intensive UV exposure," stated the study abstract. "Six-week changes in fruit and vegetable consumption were significantly correlated with changes in skin redness and yellowness over this period, and diet-linked skin reflectance changes were significantly associated with the spectral absorption of carotenoids and not melanin. We also used psychophysical methods to investigate the minimum color change required to confer perceptibly healthier and more attractive skin-coloration. Modest dietary changes are required to enhance apparent health (2.91 portions per day) and attractiveness (3.30 portions)."
The authors, led by Ross D. Whitehead, RD, concluded that "diet-linked skin-color
changes occurred over a relatively short time period and were attainable through relatively modest dietary changes; these conditions suggest potential utility as a dietary intervention tool." They feel that further research is required to verify whether wide-scale public health benefits could be reaped, and to determine whether the effects extend to non-Caucasians and to populations with a greater range in their initial diet.
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If you are an avid environmentalist, you may be familiar with the saying that rainforests are the "lungs of the world," an essentially true statement because they absorb carbon dioxide and provide a huge amount of clean oxygen for the rest of us to enjoy.
Artist Julie K. Dodd wants to emphasize the importance of this life source and to educate people on the dangers of raised carbon dioxide levels due to human consumption. She has created a series of over 80 paper sculptures that symbolize miniature canopies. She compares these canopies to the lungs in order to get across the point that we need to protect the rainforests.
Through her project, Julie Dodd expresses the "lungs of the world" as vital arteries we couldn't live without.


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WASHINGTON, October 8, 2013 — Guys wish to have muscle mass, trim waists and large chests combined with six-pack abs and bulging biceps that are all part of a 'want package'. So why are so many men engaging in cardio-aerobic exercise? The type of exercise that promotes aerobic proficiency is not what contributes in the most beneficial way to the 'want package'. In fact, too much cardio/aerobic activity can diminish these goals.
A recent Duke University study claimed that cardio/aerobic exercise was a superior means for losing fat and gaining muscle. The media picked up on the study as bible for better health and means of achievement and trumpeted this all across the nation. However, there were flaws and variables in this study that some feel render it questionable.
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The participants were clinically obese and for the study, put on a 2,100 calorie per day diet. The participants were reported to have lost fat and gained an average of 5.4 lbs. of muscle over an eight month period.
Factually, a 2,100 calorie per day diet will promote weight loss with the clinically obese without cardio/aerobic activity and a 5.4 gain in muscle mass over an eight month period is not an Olympic feat.
Consider a long, boring cardio workout has serious drawbacks such as placing enormous amounts of pressure on joints, working the same muscles over and over while other muscles weaken, not having any effect on the type of fat the surrounds the heart and can be so mundane that many people drop out from boredom, making this type of workout as singular can be defeating.
As far as building muscle mass, the cardio-aerobic method is minimally useful yet this is not to say cardio is useless. Cardio has a place in health but not so much for what men seek.
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Guys, it's time to hit the weights but there is a method for losing fat, building muscle, burning maximum calories after your workout which, by the way, lasts much longer at a greater burn rate than cardio.
The Journal of Transitional Medicine conducted a study which is widely accepted in training academia regarding which workout is best for losing weight, burning fats and extended caloric post-workout burn rate.
The study used a group of healthy men working with weights in typical fashion such as bench, leg and military presses, sit-ups, leg and bicep curls, machine rows and triceps' extensions. This group performed the traditional four sets of eight to twelve reps.
A second group performed what is known as the "rest-pause" technique and did just three exercises; leg press, bench press and machine row. For each effort, the participants chose the heaviest weight they could use for six times then rested for 20 seconds.
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Using the same amount of weight, they did as many reps as they could muster and again, rested for 20 seconds then repeated each one of the three exercises by performing the 'as many as they could' effort.
After the third series, the participants rested for two and one half minutes. This counted as one total set. They repeated the three sets for the leg press and two of sets for the bench press and machine row.
The rest-pause technique has been known as beneficial for a long time but until now, not studied in depth. This technique uses heavy weights to burden the muscles with mechanical effects and the recovery periods to promote the effects of high intensity endurance training.
24 hours later, the rest-pause technique participants had a resting metabolism that was reported as 452 calories higher than before their workout. The traditional group showed a mere 98 calorie increase.
The study posits the reason for the greater caloric burn long after the workout is the muscles must work harder to rebuild in the post-workout phase. However, logic dictates the traditional workout uses more calories during the workout phase.
The rest-pause technique produced a longer raised metabolism than traditional weight lifting methods and cardio workouts and this is critical for fat burning, weight loss and burning fat from around the heart. It is also crucial for abdominal fat reduction.
A magnificent longitudinal (over time) study with 32,000 male participants reported in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) posits weight training for men resulted in a 73 percent reduction for risk of Diabetes II whereas cardio-aerobic came in at 58%. This was based on 150 minutes of weekly workout.
These studies combined with many others suggest a weight program mixed with minimal cardio-aerobic exercise perhaps alternating function days. The reasons offered for minimal cardio-aerobic were the pressures put on the same joints , muscle groups and the time for extended cardio-aerobic may individually or collectively cause a reduction in weight training which has proven of greater benefit.
To promote and foster a health oriented workout atmosphere and have weights and aerobic machines at the ready, joining a gym such as the YMCA is a good idea. Many people do not have the discipline for home workout and tire of changing weights and accommodating interruptions that ruin a cycle or make one 'get cold' by being distracted.
Additionally, professionally trained and educated folks at the gym can offer beneficial advice and training tips. Others working out are usually glad to help as well. Performing a weight lifting procedure wrong can do more harm than good.
Join as soon as you can. For your health, it is cheap insurance and will make you feel anew.
Paul Mountjoy is a Virginia based writer, psychotherapist and nutritionist.
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Beyonce has posted some previously unseen pics of hers from her birthday that she, Jay, and lil Ivy Blue celebrated on a yacht cruising the Mediterranean and the south of France. These are sweet pics of a totally fresh-faced Beyonce without any makeup and at peace with herself.
Check out the images of the diva in a bikini and colorful top and then one in which she's cutting the cake, a very private moment indeed. But my personal fav is that of the food, simple and delicious, yummy roasted chicken, champagne, and juicy strawberries.
Take a look and pic your favorite.


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The ASHI Standards and Ethics Examination is administered by Assessment Systems, Inc. (ASI), an independent testing company specializing in evaluation of professional and occupational competence. ASI provides expertise and support to associations, state credentialing agencies and private industry in test development, scoring and reporting, as well as agency records management.
The ASHI Standards and Ethics Examination is administered via an electronic testing system. The EXPro testing system eliminates the use of paper answer sheets and pencils. Examination questions and answers are presented on a touch-sensitive screen. A computer memory card records your responses and automatically times the examination. Knowledge of computers and typing is not required.
ASI offers examinations at more than 200 sites throughout North America. A list of these locations is found on the National Assessment Center Location Card which accompanies this handbook. When you call to make your examination reservation, the Customer Care Representative will give you specific information and directions to your Assessment Center. Locations and schedules are subject to change and should be verified at the time you call to make your reservation.
You may make a reservation up to three (3) business days prior to your desired test date. For example, if you call ASI's Customer Care Center to make an examination reservation on a Tuesday, you may test as early as the following Friday. Reservations made on a Saturday require an additional business day to arrange. This schedule is illustrated in the following chart:
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More reviews by NightAtTheOpera
It bubbled from the very beginning. I wasn't even halfway through the bottle before it turned into a goopy substance, that can only be compared to glue straight out of a glue gun. It was also stringy. Would not recommend this to anyone.
The only positive was the substance didn't evolve in to a Gorgon and try and eat me. That's good thing, right?
2 out of 2 people found this review helpful. Did you? Yes No
This I would say is just an average base and top coat. For one, sometimes when I would open it, it would just leave the brush part itself stuck and the cap comes undone. When I let it dry, it doesn't have bubbles yet so I will stick to this for now.
More reviews by meetmeinmontauk
This base+top coat is just ok in my book. I received it as a gift & haven't had any problems with it. I haven't seen any type of bubbling as others have described. I'm not sure that I would buy it again only because it's just ok. Still haven't found the perfect one for me, but this works just as well as my Revlon top coat which is much cheaper. For some reason the excess polish that was wiped off has crusted around the top when you take the lid off... my normal polish has never done this... which is really weird. It gets the job done but there are cheaper alternatives that will do the same thing.
When I plan to spend a small fortune on make-up I always read the reviews here before deciding whether to go for it or not....the one time I forget to check, is the one time I spend $24 on an absolutely awful product.
Lots of people mentioned bubbling halfway through the bottle - mine bubbled from the very start. I'm so bitterly disappointed because I thought I'd finally found a base coat that stopped stains completely. I have tried three times now, applied it with varying techniques but the bubbles are inevitable.
The positives are that it stops all stains, even with the really dark, vampy colours. And I found that the OPI colour I tried it with lasted much longer than I expected. However the bubbling problem far outweighs these positives.
1 out of 1 people found this review helpful. Did you? Yes No
I absolutely hate this base/topcoat. It's really bubbly so I have to slather on a really thick amount for it to look relatively decent. My first use was with a red nail polish, and by the end of the application I saw that the brush had tinted pink. After a few more uses (because I really wanted to give this a chance), the entire bottle had a pink tint and although it doesnt make a difference on most polishes, it is slightly noticeable on white. Also, the formula acts like a glue on the rim of the bottle, so I have to use one of those grippy kitchen jar opener things to get the bottle open almost every time.
The only things that really bother me are the bubbles, and this would actually be a somewhat mediocre base/topcoat if it didn't leave such horrid bubbles on my nails all the time. All in all, there is no way in hell I'm buying this again.
I have been reading MakeupAlley reviews for about 2 months now, but this is the first time I feel compelled to actually write a review myself. Like many have mentioned before me, the formula bubbles BADLY and is not glossy at all. The bubbles started showing up when I was less than halfway through the bottle. I decided to give the coat one more shot, thinking that maybe the application was a fluke and it was my fault. I had plans to switch over to Seche Vite, which is amazing, but I had no time to go out of my way to pick it up, so I settled for this for the time being. Spider web-like strings showed up when I took the brush out of the bottle and the bubbles were even worse. 8 out of 10 of my fingers are now covered with bubbly Jade is the New Black polish. I was so excited to try that color out. I am a huge fan of OPI, but I will be sticking to their color polishes. I suppose you can't be good at everything, even when you're OPI. What a pity.
More reviews by champagnestars
Hmmm this is really odd, because everyone here says it bubbles when it reaches the middle of the bottle. Mine is slightly below the middle & i still find it alright! I haven't had any problems with bubbling (as of now).
I like it because it keeps my nails at it's normal color & doesn't result in yellowing at all! it helps keeps my nail colour looking vibrant after applying the top coat & helping the lasting power to increase. I really love this product!
It bubbled when I reached the middle of the bottle. Terrible! I went through a nightmare one night and couldn't figure out why my nail bubbled like crazy. Stay far far away from this product.
This didnt prolong the life of my nail polish at all. And I am upset because it was soo much damn money.
Is it just me or is it extremly hard to open? You need the jaws of life in order to open and close this thing.
waste of $10. And I like OPI nail polishes.
1 out of 1 people found this review helpful. Did you? Yes No
I really don't like this. I bought for travel but it's not very good as a base or top coat. You would do much better with a separate base and top coat. Wear is a lot worse when I use this instead of a regular base coat. As a top coat it's better but smears the color a bit and then contaminates the whole bottle to be pinkish. The smearing ruins a french mani or nail art too. While I love OPI polishes, this Start to Finish is the pits especially given its cost. I have found that none of the combo base/top coats I have used have been any good. There are much better options out there for base and top coats.


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Oprah Winfrey announced Wednesday that she's resurrecting her book club after killing it 10 months ago, but with a slight twist. Here's a tip for authors who want the talk show queen to tout their books from now on: It helps to be dead and on the high school syllabus. She's thinking of calling the new set-up ''Traveling With the Classics,'' and she says it was inspired by the authors on her current personal reading list, guys like Shakespeare, Steinbeck, Faulkner, and Hemingway.
Fittingly, Winfrey announced the new venture at the Association of American Publishers' annual meeting in Washington, D.C., where she was honored with a lifetime achievement award for the previous club, which shot all 48 of the contemporary American novels she recommended onto the bestseller list. After five and a half years, Oprah suddenly pulled the plug on the book club last April, saying, ''It has become harder and harder to find books on a monthly basis that I feel absolutely compelled to share.'' Now she's found a few such books, but she won't be sharing them monthly -- more like three to five times a year, she said. And instead of inviting the authors onto her show to discuss the books (impossible for the classic authors she's mentioned, unless she also invites John Edward on to channel them), she'll visit settings associated with the books. No word yet on what her first pick will be or when, but no doubt a lot of authors will be dying for a plug.


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Submitted by deanna_g on
About This Project
My best friend's 30th birthday was approaching and she had mentioned that she needed some nice chairs for her front porch. I got so excited when I saw these. So I made her one! Unfortunately, I had a few issues with the prop support, but I think we've remedied it. The dowel kept splitting when weight was bared on it. Now, neither of us are "small" girls, but we're not huge, either! So I replaced it with an oak piece of 1x2. That seems to have fixed the problem, and the corner of the 1x2 fits in between the slats nicely and holds it in place. Sorry the pictures are awful. I'll have a finished product picture up soon. (-:
This was actually my first "real" project. I've fixed several things before and tinkered around with woodworking, but I'm just starting to get into it. I can definitely say that I've found my hobby!
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morsan replied on Permalink
Best friend birthday gift
Best friend birthday gift thoughts will surely pop up after going to search engines and typing in keywords or phrases that you recognize your best friend would find agreement with. If you want individual from altitude birthday messages words and well we are provide you.
Gonzalo replied on Permalink
All great Birthday parties start
All great Birthday parties start with mothering sunday celebration invites. The doesn't just give the recipient the essential information about what, where and when, it sets the tone and soul of the event.
There are different type of
There are different type of Birthday gifts you can buy some decorative things also purchase perfumes, accessories it depends on the person likes and dislikes. real throwing knives
This tends to happen in
This tends to happen in situations where the gift is given with an understood or explicit agreement between the giver of the gift and its receiver that some type of service will be rendered often exterior of usual legitimate methods because of the gift. http://bestdaggers.tumblr.com/
allintong.jacob replied on Permalink
Looking for finished chair:
On the eve of your friend's 30the birthday this chair is really good gift as you mentioned she said to you that she is looking for a chair which she will use to sit in front of porch. The modification done by you is really good thing because in other case there is always possibility of breaking any leg of the chairs. I am looking forward to the finished goods I mean chair which is finally made by you. 19th birthday party ideas which make your event glorious and batter.
Guestumair replied on Permalink
Well if essay canada service
happy birthday.
Guestumair replied on Permalink
Well if essay canada service
Well if essay canada service is what you are looking for, don't go far anymore because you are now in the right website. In this site there are a lot of affordable services which is always guaranteed excellent. As you can see, there are a bunch of comments from previous customers and we are all saying the same thing, this site is amazing.
raniokoye replied on Permalink
Interesting, my opinion is
Though I must say I like the chair, I personally would have reservations about the choice of colours. I think something a little more colourful would be more befitting, maybe something more immature, because people don't like to be reminded that they are getting old, the extent of which depends a great deal on their achievements. With that said, it gives me ideas about what I might decide to give to a friend as a gift.
raniokoye replied on Permalink
Interesting, my opinion is


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First and foremost, good traction is a must when attempting to urinate in public. Know your footwear! Some tread becomes slippery when wet. ...
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the Travel Enthusiast
- 27 Seperato in Amazing Places | NO COMMENTS
Top reasons to visit Great Britain any time
While watching the below video I was constantly waiting for the phrase 'Britain is Great' to be uttered. Because it would be so true! So here are my top reasons to visit Great Britain – any time!
Apart from the obvious reasons – mystical countryside, beautiful landscapes that give you the goosebumps, ancient history absorbed in everything and so on – how often does Dame Judi Dench and Jamie Oliver invite you anywhere? Watch the video and see if your reasons to visit Britain are the same as mine… …
- 02 Febtibi60 in News | NO COMMENTS
The most picturesque lakeside towns in the world
If you love water, then as soon as the weather gets warm you will probably want to take a trip to the seaside and indulge in the joys of beach life: swimming, lounging in the sun, or doing some water sports. But beaches are notorious for attracting huge crowds, and let's not forget about jellyfish, riptides, sunburn and other downsides. But if you're not ready to give up on your plans of splashing around in the sun, why not choose a lakeside town instead as your spring/summer destination? Wherever there's a particularly pretty lake, there will be a lakeside town as well, where you can find guesthouses, hotels, restaurants, etc. Spend your days swimming, sailing, hiking and doing other outdoor activities in some of the most picturesque lakeside towns in the world. …
- 18 Janitachan in Travel Planning | NO COMMENTS
The best Easter egg hunts in the world
If you're a Christian, then Easter is one of the most important holidays of the year, and a perfect opportunity to spend time with friends and family either at home, or even better in a faraway place that promises fun and adventure. And even if you're not a religious sort, Easter is a great time to get away from home and from work and get up to some traveling, since April is as good a time as ever to be on the road. But if you are planning on traveling with kids, then Easter gets a whole new meaning: Easter bunnies, chocolate eggs and sometimes even presents! Go traveling with your family on Easter, and take your kids to some of the best Easter egg hunts in the world, they'll have the time of their lives! …
- 06 Jantylerd in Food Experiences | 1 COMMENT
Top 5 places for gourmet weekends
Traveling is all about seeing new places, discovering and experiencing, but this entire adventure is not limited to what you see. Eating local foods and delicacies and offering your taste-buds some new tastes is just as big a part of the entire travel business. Some people travel expressly with the purpose of eating the local treats, and in between two restaurants they can fit in a nice bit of sightseeing too. So if you want to go on an eating rampage, there are some cities better suited for this plan than others. Here's a list of the top 5 places for gourmet weekends. …


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Last night I was lucky enough to attend an event at Bahama Breeze to hang out with some fellow bloggers and munch on some amazing appetizers.
I'll be honest, I haven't been to Bahama Breeze in a long time... long time, so I was really excited to go last night.
I'm a food nerd and have resorted to trying anything placed in front of me.
A yummy goat cheese dip? Sure!
Sliders? Duh!
The world's biggest onion rings (not really, but dang they were huge!) Absoutely!
Shrimp dip? Well, I don't really like shrimp but I'll try it!
Add in some great ladies to chat with and it was the perfect evening.
Check and see if there's a Bahama Breeze near you and get there and check out their menu!
This was a blogger event. I was not compensated but I ate good. All opinions are mine!


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ThunderShirt's patented design applies gentle, constant pressure on a dog's torso, and this pressure has an amazing calming effect for most dogs. Includes ThunderToy and ThunderTreat. Pressure has been used to successfully reduce anxiety for many years for both animals and humans. Examples include parents swaddling infants, veterinarians using squeeze chutes when vaccinating cattle, and thousands of people with autism using pressure to relieve persistent anxiety.
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Classic macaroni and cheese for me. I also love lasagna, but other than that, I'm not a big fan of pasta.
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Classic macaroni and cheese for me. I also love lasagna, but other than that, I'm not a big fan of pasta.
Beautiful sig by Zainny-sempai!
[Insert future roleplays I will be starting in the (hopefully) near future.]My stories: |Deadlock|I am a hopeless romantic tirelessly searching for my fairy tale ending.
Ravioli is awesome.
Is anyone here familiar with a restaurant called Noodles and Co?
They make the best mac and cheese and they have spicy spaghetti! its really good as well.
Rainbow noodles, and tortilleni.
Lasagna is the gift of gods, the divinity of heavenly goodness.
Greek Pasta with Meatballs it's so awesome. :3
The thing you wished for the most, is something youll never get.
~Aisaka Taiga
3DS friend code: 3024-5737-8747
Ugh! Pasta is almost all I eat, I can't choose D: I guess I reeeaaally like Spaghetti bolognese, uhm, if it's specific pasta then I always end up going back to fussili...pasta <3
"The truth is far darker than you could ever imagine" -The Chronicles of Gyzra
Please give feedback on my artwork here so I can improve: http://www.animeforum.com/showthread...ighlight=gyzra
Thank you. =]
Well that picture doesn't make my comment seem dirty at all. XD
The thing you wished for the most, is something youll never get.
~Aisaka Taiga
3DS friend code: 3024-5737-8747
My favorite pasta is alfredo noodles.
Doesn't it look amazing?
i'm just too awesome for a signature.
I pretty much eat anything pasta, I'm a carbs-hore. ;3
Wiki Answers says noodles are pasta. Then they gave me 50 ads to sort out.
Every time I go to the library, I bring a big bowl of Souper Meal, which are noodles in a microwavable bowl. Chicken one day, beef the next. There's a microwave in the library.
I'm not sure why.
Pumpkin ravioli, no meat at all in that of course lol (vegetarian).
I hope this is a pasta, but I love stroganoff. It's delicious.
Im not a biggest fan of pasta, what i mean is i would not eat it more than few times per week maximum.
Usually not even more than once a week.
But every now and then a great pasta dish is in order.
My favourite of all is made that way:
Boil pasta al dente.
When its done mix in with it: lots of prawns and tuna, sundried tomatoes chopped, bits of lemon and squeeze in some lemon juice too. Mayonese.
Must love the AncientTechReborn's Dubstep and other apps
AnientTechReborn FTW!
Always sunny day where i am
Spaghetti Carbonara.
But I try not to eat it.
@rf switch is that the one with the egg on it?
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More reviews by barefootcassandra
If I could find this again I would buy it so fast! It was beautiful, cheap, and not too sticky. Have never found a replacement.
I really like this -- a beautiful sparkly, brown sugar shade. It looks great on top of nude lipsticks.
I heard that a lipgloss that is similar is Angel Cake by Mary-Kate and Ashley, but I haven't been to Wal Mart yet to see if this color is available.
More reviews by Shedeviluptuous
THIS WAS MY FAVORITE LIPGLOSS EVER! and I can't find it anywhere anymore :( The only thing I can find closest too it is MAC's Explicit lipglass...I wish they would being back this color..I hate having to spend $13 on something I used to spend $3 on!
Oooh, I found this at my dollar store and I was really excited! Shoutin' Sugar gave a translucent nudey brown tone and the texture was great. It smelled like the Cappucino lip lite. Love the packaging too.
Would buy again if I ever run out.
Probably BB's best Lip Lite ever, so of course it's discontinued. However, do not cry- MAC's Explicit LipGlass is a near-carbon copy of this if you absolutely must have this color of l/g. I can't really tell the difference. Other than Explicit costing $10 more, damnit, but what are you gonna do...
You know what's wierd? I cannot figure out why BB would d/c this & keep that revolting Champagne Lip Lite. Shoutin Sugar is SO much better, and that champagne crap is awful! What the hell are they thinking?!
I love this product! It smells great, tastes great, feels great, looks great...and whatnot? It has a lovely shine and therefore deserves a five! Only a few stores have it in my area, but it seems that the amount keeps decreasing day by day...I need to by this product before its gone for good!
More reviews by takeitfromme73
This was sadly discontinued:( It had the great Lip Lites texture, and smelled really good! I smells just like brown sugar to me! This shade looks real good with a tan! If you can still find it, buy it, it's totally worth it!If your a fan of it like me, you can still order it from Bonne Bell! :)
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Bought this at a dollar store for $2CAD. I should go buy a few more because this stuff is great! I didn't know about the colour judging from the tube, but when you apply it, it becomes super vinyl-like glossy, with that perfect hint of shimmer and a slight mocha-silvery tint. It smells like maple syrup - YUM! I haven't tried using it over anything else yet, but I'm sure it'll be great too!!