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I'm currently playing this dark heresy campaign and the one player told me that the next gaming night they were going to kill another player. How would that work ingame. Just a normal fighting sequence with a mass of fate points being thrown around? I'm not sure how its going to play out. If anyone has had this before or has any sugestions let me know.
Player killing Player
Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:05 AM
Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:22 PM
Well, (imho) If one or the other has not invested anything in the way of experience points, or wants to create a different character, or really does'nt take this kind of thing seriously at all, or enjoys having his/her character die, I'd say some one is going to get pissed off at this unexpected action. The whole point of most RPG's are to have a good time, with carefully constructed alter-ego's and to survive adverse conditions to improve and better thier characters through imaginary scenarios. So, I guess it depends on the group you play with. If the character that is being targeted, is in need of elimination through no fault of his own…ie through possesion or insanity, and no other rehabilitory solution is present, then I guess there might not be any other recourse. But if you just dislike the player or character, then I suggest you try playing different games that encourage that kind of behavior like "Paranoia". or not play at all, to avoid some hard feelings that are not what these games are all about. My players play because they like the game and it's kind of a bonding situation between us. The murder of another character in cold blood in our game (even in the grim darkness of the Warhammer universe) would comprimise the benefits of why we play Dark Heresy or any RPG for that matter. We know it's "Just a game" But the whole idea of it is to work together to solve problems. And if you need to kill another team member, then I think you have failed as an inquisitorial cell.
Posted 04 March 2013 - 02:38 PM
That makes a lot of sense, and i never even thought of that. Thanks for the insight. The squabble in our campaign is a scum was pickpocketing civilians and our arbitrator didnt like it and caused a scene and other guards were called on this planet, and almost caused the whole mission to go wrong. So the scum wants revenge. Thanks for replying.
Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:58 AM
I thing that in your example the scum player may be justified as his character would actually want to kill the arbitrator. In order to avoid this sort of situations you can use NPCs. For example in our group the Interogator is an NPC and is played by the GM. In this way he can intervene whenever something like this is likely to happen.
Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:24 AM
Well, it depends on your players. In my group we have the strict rule to differentiate between players and characters. We play with all consequences and if one player shoots at the other this is like regular combat, even if he has the intention to kill the other. We all like our characters but we have agreed that WH40k is a grim and dark world where even the people at your side can become your enemies, we live with that and we like it that way because it adds some paranoia because you never know who your friend is and who not.
Though all Characters have the right to use and burn their fate-points and a scum that tries to kill somebody just for his personal revenge should not expect mercy of his inquisitor and if the Arbitrator suvrives with his fate-point burned he might seek out for some retribution for himself. This might have a major impact on the group because intern fights might destroy the ability to work and therefore makes them useless for the inquisitor. He might save some Akolythes that have proven still usefull and able to work with others though my Inquisitor would just kill these childish soldiers. They know to much and have shown to be not able to work - grant them mercy.
Another thing would the intervention of an NPC or (what I like more) of your other players.
Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:04 AM
PCs fighting and trying to kill each other could either be an excellent plot for your campaign or it could completely ruin the gaming experience for all involved, so whoever intends to kill another player's character must think of the consequences before acting. You know, just like in real life.
Same goes for the characters involved. Did the Arbites really piss off the Scum to the point where the Scum has no other option for revenge but to kill the Arbites? To me, Scums are about survival and when you consider killing an Inquisitor's acolyte, even if it is a fellow Acolyte, the Scum must consider the consequences (unless it's a spur of the moment thing), which is - ultimately - his demise. Revenge against a fellow Acolyte, no matter the slight, is not worth the trouble if it means the Scum also gets killed off as a result. (Unless the whole situation has been building tension over months, nay, years.) Otherwise, it is just plain silly from the Scum's side. Besides, there are several ways to die a miserable death and the Scum can contribute to such an event, even if it means simply not acting when he should. (For example, Arbites is under heavy fire and low on ammo, voxes for back-up, Scum says he'll be there in a moment, then doesn't turn up until after the Arbites bites the dust.)
Just blowing the brains out of the other character's head for no good reason is a rather silly way of ensuring your own death.
Posted 07 March 2013 - 06:38 AM
Thanks for all the replies. They have been very helpful in multiple ways. So i'll see how it goes when it happens and i'll post a follow up after. If anyone still has more opinions i'd love to read them. Thanks again.
Posted 07 March 2013 - 06:59 PM
I try to have my players develop their own philosophies in terms of playing style- though we tend to take a third person perspective on things
["My character would do this, or this instead of the standard "I do this or this" most of the time. Don't get me wrong, people still speak in first person- but often when it comes time to talk about big ideas in relation to 40k, the discussion devolves to what the players think their characters are going to do.]
Now this has lead to several occasions where PvP has been an option.
In the first campaign, two players (One of them a malefic adept, the other a rather radical Psyker] accepted Boons from an Avatar of Slaanesh and slowly morphed into Snake-men. The rest of the group spared them at first- and forgave the Adept his sorcery [or turned a blind eye to it, seeing as he was healing everybody], but both of them mutated more and more and became more monstrous until one of the other players was able to catch a glimpse of their true forms for an instant- but he did nothing. Kept Quiet. Which allowed the both of them to escape at the end of the mission.
PvP was avoided likely because there was an "unspoken rule" around the table, it seems, that players don't kill players- even though, in that particular situation, two of the players were clearly half-snake/half-man monstrosities.
Alternatively, at the very start of the next campaign- the group was not yet working for the inquisition and happened to be forced into a situation where I had hoped they would work together. One of them seperated from the rest minutes before the start of the adventure, and when he rejoined with the others, they simply did not trust "his character" - so took away his guns before he woke up [he had fainted after running into some monstrous spiders].
Now when the characters woke up, he went insane and wanted the guns back. So much so that he "rolled a die to determine whether or not he would "frenzy" [even though he didn't even have the talent- just in terms of behavior], failed it, and started attacking them. The others killed him. The group was split between those who wanted him dead, and those who didn't- and who had actually saved him from the spider.
After this incident, which put a bitter taste in all of our mouths [it was probably our worst session], I had to determine "official" rules for PvP. From now on, Initiative rules apply for players if they want to Pvp- so that other players have a chance to itntervene to stop it or something. Furthermore, burning a fate point causes the loser to "Vacate" the cell- perhaps by barely surviving, falling off a cliff, etc etc- in other words, he's out of the picture. The character isn't dead, and may return as an NPC for revenge, but in terms of participating in future investigations with this group, he's finished.
Does the arbitrator have light sleeper or paranoia? If so, have him roll perception/roll perception for him. If he wakes up- deal with it as you would a standard fight. Roll Initiative and all of that. If he doesn't, the scum has one round of surprise. He attacks, deals damage- as the sleeping man is helpless, the attack deals 2d10 extra damage. But even then, the arbitrator is likely COULD survive it- he could roll a couple of 1s, only grazing the sleeping man.
Try to stick to the rules as much as possible. And in order to avoid the "Chain burning of fate points" [and the one with the more fate points winning out at the end], once the first fate point is burned- that character should be out. And depending on the context, retribution will soon follow for the murderer… unless of course he silences all of the witnesses first He better have a damned good report to justify an entire dead team though [and his survival :P]!
Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:22 PM
I have a rule that players are not allowed to burn Fate Points to survive against attacks directed at them by other players who are intending to kill them (i.e. they arent under mind control or caught in a blast radius of a weapon intended for someone else). The reason for this is that is prevents the idea that the player with the most fate points will win any fight to the death.
It came about in legitimate discussions about the roles of certain players in the group. It was realised that one player could likely take on the rest of them because of his overwhelming number of fate points (3 at a time the rest of them were sitting at 1 or 0). It was realised that there could be legitimate reasons for this character to go against the others and if he did he would end the game by wiping the party so the rule was introduced so that should he go and do that then he wouldn't have the ability to win the fight through burning fate points. Basically the idea is to prevent one character from being able to ruin the game for everyone else even if its for good in character reasons.
We view group strife as part of our Dark Heresy game and while everyone knows not to let little arguements explode into fights to the death, Dark Heresy is often a group of conflicting characters and viewpoints and the actions within the game can legitimately lead to them wanting each other dead. In most cases any disagreement can wait until the end of a mission at which point the players can attempt to come to a solution that is amicable for them both.
A case in point was our mind wiped psyker who killed 136 noble men and women in the party at the end of the Tattered Fates scenario. The character had just been introduced and when he had I had entrusted the Sister Hospitaller Character and the Cleric Character to watch over him for signes of instability. When this happened the Sister was the only one of the Acolytes in range and hunted him through the manor and killed him. In that situation she was allowed to burn her Fate points on her Pure Faith ability but not to survive other attacks. Without this rule the psyker would have easily defeated the sister and would have proceeded to hunt down and kill the other characters so that no one would know what he had done effectively ending the game.
Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:07 AM
I'm pretty much a onetrack mind about this. Unless it's an actual part of the scenario, player versus player combat is strictly forbidden. No ruining the game for the other players!
Posted 11 March 2013 - 03:12 AM
Well, I do not think it might ruin games automaticly though it can end an campaign pretty fast. But if at least everyone sticks to his role and character I see no problem with it. If other characters want to intervein and to stop this they have enough ways to do so. PvP has not alaways to end with someone dead, it can be a great way to make a point.
One of the campaigns I played in had a climax between a tech-priest and a cleric. The cleric gathered some STC fragments and was unwilled to hand them to the priest, in the foreplay there were several minor ocasions where the cleric did not accept the souvereinity and independence of the AdMech, also not their authority over technology, so the Tech-Adept pointed his weapon to the cleric. The later pulled out his melee weapon and was constantly approaching the priest though he was warned to do not. After the third warning the Priest openend fire. While this happened the psyker of the group was readied to stun the others and was sucessfull. In the aftermaths to two of them had to settle down their differences and it was quite interisting to play in such a group where not everybody was your firend. In the end we considerend this scene (that consited of much more than my short summary) as one of the best of an entire campaign that lasted over a year at that point.
The important thing is that the player seperate themself from their characters. They may fight and argue but as long as the players can talk and laugh about that in the aftermath everything is okay. Though everyone likes his charakter I think no charakter should be save from danger and death, especially in a setting like Dark Heresy and this includes the own group.
Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:04 AM
Well sure, it might not ruin the game that a player kills another player, but then again it can create conflicts between the players themselves. We have, unfortunately, a bad experience with this happening in our group and while the "victim" in that case most certainly overreacted to the killing of his character by another player (especially when you consider that I tried to kill EVERYONE just minutes earlier, resulting in my own death) we do strive to not let it happen.
There's also the Gamemaster to consider. We mostly play our own adventures, so we try not to deviate too far (some leeway is certainly allowed, this isn't a railroad!) from what the GM has prepared for the session.
The Gamemaster killing players, however….
Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:41 AM
Well the scum put an explosive collar onto the arbitor. Initiative was rolled. He exploded the collar, a fate point was used. The arbitor was then in some like vehicle safety belts he used a round to get out of it. Power sword into arbitors face another fate point used. Arbitor then one shots (gets a rigtheous dont think that should happen against other imperium) scum with bolt pistol…. Then the funny thing was the other players abandoned the mission totally out of character grabbed the arbitor. at this time were all in vacuum space with suits.. The 2 scum that are there with the hostage(mission) continue taking hostage back while the other 4 attempt to heal arbitor. Was kinda funny watching people decide i don't want my character dead, i'm not going to roleplay correctly. Then the arbitors player decides w.e i'm not dead but im making a new character anyway.
So if your going to allow pvp which is a very real thing it should be allowed. You need to have people that will roleplay there character not themselves and they need to be mature enough to do that. Because 8 of us all 20+ and only 3 people could handle the situation through character. Its definately worth having and i like what other people have said about not being allowed fate points thats a good suggestion that if I saw earlier would have showed these posts to my gm.
Thanks all for the replys it was a really fun time. First time my gm had space combat and first pvp all at the same time. =p
I hope you peeps allow pvp although hopefully the imperium can stay strong and together, good hunting.
P.S. The scum got away with it because noone but the scum duo attempted to complete the mission. The main arbiter and the other were deemed at fault because they hindered mission twice…
Posted 15 March 2013 - 02:06 PM
Well, as long as you had a good time and everyone is still speaking to each other in a mature way, then congratulations! As much as I disdain PvP, I would let my players do anything they wanted, but I would'nt give them fate points to use in the act, as I believe fate points should be used to enhance the players destiny of doing thier master's bidding, not used for something ouside the mission perameters. I say "Let their cunning, skill, ferocity and a little luck decide their own fate!" But, hey, every group is different. And those differences should be unique and celebrated as your own. Thanks for sharing your experience with PvP. I'm glad your group is still striking fear into the hearts of the Emperor's enemies…and having a good time doing it!
Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:01 PM
hehe. Interesting, cuz I am planning on pvp my own team next time we meet. I already have a go ahead from the GM.
My character has been a spy/saboteur secretly sabotaging my team in missions. But I don't like the job, so next time we meet; my job is to:
1. Secretly kill our prisoner who we are interogating (who has information on where my real boss is)
2. Secretly boobytrap the map.
3. Backstab the team during a fight. Kill as many players as possible (they have fate points so few will actually die)
4. Escape using smoke / flash grenades.
5. Come back later as a boss.
Posted 17 March 2013 - 05:48 AM
Thats cool but talk to your gm about fate points when pvping. I liked the above suggestions about not allowing fate points in pvp. Also talk about not allowing righteous fury on fellow imperium. And also i like the fact that your playing your character. Some people start pvp for no reason and its annoying. You have a very valid reason.
Posted 17 March 2013 - 07:13 PM
The rulebook says that burning a fate point a character is "…rendered unconscious on 0 Wounds" (core rulebook page 184).
In a PvP situation a player that burns a fate point looses the battle (since he or she is unconscious). You cannot simply burn a fate point and continue fighting as if nothing happenned. According to the book it is up to the GM to decide how the character was saved (it could be for example that the opponent left him for dead).
Therefore it is not correct to say that whoever has more fate points is at an advantage in PvP unless of course one of the players has 0 fate points to begin with.
Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:48 PM
Killing a Servant of the Imperium is Heresy!
Zap! Zap! Zap!
Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on
My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games
Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:49 PM
Darth Smeg said:
Killing a Servant of the Imperium is Heresy!
Technically it's Treason. But then Treason is Heresy, so there!
Tarald - The Dark Lord of Smeg
You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on
My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games
Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:51 PM
Darth Smeg does have a really good point.
Personally I'm split on PVP combat. During my campaign, one of my characters (the Psyker, specifically), had picked up a Daemonic Chainsword, and failed the test to resist it's tmeptation. This meant that he wanted to keep it, knew he ahd to keep it secret from everyone else, but aside from that there was no compulsion to do anything with it, or to use it (yet).
During a combat later in the adventure, the Psyker's Perils of the Warp knocked the crap out of him, followed immediately by being hit pretty hard by an enemy. He would ahve had to burn a fate point to survive, but before this, the Daemon offered him a deal, which he took, and he rose up, controlled by the daemon for the duration of combat, but was gunned down by his team mates for being possessed (being the psyker, they all viewed him with natural suspicion). Everyone enjoyed it, everyone thought that it really fit the setting, and it went over really well.
On another side though, I've been on the recieving end of a PVP encounter during a different game in a different system. To cut it short, I wasn't consulted on how I would react, and the other character pushed mine out of an airlock, with no chance for me to save myself. As a result, I immediately lost any inclination to continue with the campaign, even as another character. I also immediately distrust any character that my friend plays now, as this wasn't the first time one of my characters has died either directly or indirectly because of one of his.
So I'd be really careful, and talk it over with the GM and both players involved, and see if it's something that both players would enjoy playing. This is a game after all, and you don't want one of your players feeling like their gaming expereince is ruined.


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We were there in section 315, laced with a level of fervor and unhinged intensity previously unprecedented and not until Trevor Lewis scored the fifth goal into an empty net did our collective minds begin to grasp that our Los Angeles Kings were going to become Stanley Cup Champions and the Kings of the NHL.
At that point, we lost what was left of our minds.
But raising the Cup at Staples Center on June 11, 2012 was not an end. It was a beginning to the hopes and dreams of L.A. Kings fans like you and us to have our team become one of the elite in the NHL – a team that is unsatisfied with just one Stanley Cup, but one that plays every season for the earned right to win more. 45 years it took to win our first Cup. Surly and I hope and pray to the Hockey Gods for many more in our lifetime and that of our children.
Since we started this L.A. Kings blog in September of 2009, our readership has steadily grown every month. In 2012 alone, we are on track for one million visitors to Surly & Scribe and thousands of new readers each month.
We are perpetually unfiltered in substance and style.
We don't moderate comments anymore than we moderate our own opinions.
We hope our prose entertains and inspires. We hope our skits and humor make you laugh. We speak your language because it is the same as ours.
I have been a student of hockey for most of my life. Surly has been committed to his puck insanity most of his. You won't get the tired clichés, milquetoast commentary or either of us to tow the company line. Our commitment to the vision, one that is honest and independent, defines who we are.
But reader beware: Surly & Scribe is addicting.
We hope you enjoy what you read as much as we do bringing the words to you.
Now and forever, scream it for your 2012 Stanley Cup Champions. Go Kings!
– Bobby Scribe


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Hi There Scrappers!
Have you been to Marcie's store lately? She has a host of beautiful kits for many different occasions which will turn your layouts into very special works of art.
*Autumn Wishes* captures the crispness of a beautiful fall day and the sweetness of the last summer sun
Capture your childs memorable moments on that first day at school and throughout the year with *School Bell*
*Summer Fun* captures the beauty of a perfect summer's day
Want to make calendars for your loved ones at Christmas time? These calendar templates are just the thing.
This clip art works well with Marcie's 2013 Calendars. You can place them on the calendars to mark special days.
Today Marcie is sharing this lovely Quick Page with all of us for the Daily Download
You can pick up the School Bell Quick Page in the New Products section of the store HERE
Thank you for sharing, Marcie!
And remember: You might have to scroll down a bit
Happy scrapping!


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t.e. 007 Whiskey Glass, Set of 4
Price: $180.00Overview
Design by Aldo Bakker.
By Thomas Eyck.
The Whiskey Glass brings parties and festivities to mind where friends gather for a good time. The Whiskey Glass is designed to optimize the bouquet of the whiskey and the experience of enjoying the fine spirit. No thick, chunky lines with the Whiskey Glass either, instead a well-balanced glass that begs to be held and never put down.
Sold as a set of four glasses.
Microwave and dishwasher safe.
Material(s): Glass
- 3.15" H X 3.15" Dia.
- Capacity: 10.1 fl oz
Designer: Aldo Bakker
Aldo Bakker (1971) is active as an exhibition designer. He also designs furniture and small products for daily use. He has been working in his own studio since 1994 where he develops products on his own and for private clients. His treatment of materials is extremely refined, his style is minimal but elegant. His designs are made with the intent to optimize functionality. Aldo Bakker has been teaching at the Design Academy Eindhoven since 2002.
View other products by Aldo BakkerManufacturer: Thomas Eyck
Thomas Eyck. Publisher and distributor of characteristic and exclusive contemporary design products.
Thomas Eyck works together with designers of his own choice. In his view the union of design and material, and a careful process of product development from the first idea until the "finishing touch" are very important. The collection of Thomas Eyck will develop slowly by commissioning one carefully chosen designer to design a series of products each year. Material and techniques will be chosen with the utmost care, and Thomas Eyck will only cooperate with the best craftsmen and producers. In this way limited series of products in different materials will be created under the Thomas Eyck umbrella.
View other products from Thomas Eyck


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The social event, hosted by the Economic Development Foundation wing of the Cleveland-Bolivar County Chamber of Commerce, featured a cook out, live music, and a brief program that paid tribute to local commerce.
"The purpose of Salute to Industry is to thank those who have businesses and industries that support the economy of Cleveland and Bolivar County," said EDF chairperson Dr. Michelle Roberts.
"Our area has faired a little better economically, and mostly that's because of the stable companies that have stuck with us here," added Roberts. "Tonight is about paying recognition to them."
Roberts added that dedication from local business owners and residents has helped the area weather the economic storm.
"Our business owners have made a commitment to keeping their doors open, but it's also important to recognize the people who stay here and shop locally," she said. "This is very much a team effort."
In year's past, the event has acknowledged long-standing businesses celebrating an anniversary, but without a company meeting the criteria this year, a special introduction was the main feature of the night.
"We will use the stage as an introduction to Bill LaForge, Delta State University's new president," said Judson Thigpen, chamber executive vice president. "We wanted the regional and state people here tonight to become acquainted with the visions he has for Delta State and the community."
LaForge, who began his term on April 15, has committed extensive time networking with local officials, businesses and organizations outside of campus.
"This is a great celebration that recognizes the contributions of businesses in the community," said LaForge. "Delta State will continue to build on the collaborations and partnerships that make this place work.
"We will work to increase business and improve the town and gown relationships that enhance Cleveland and Bolivar County."
An excitement filled the air when LaForge spoke of a promising future.
"He speaks of something that is so important to the lifeblood around here," said Cleveland Mayor Billy Nowell, LaForge's classmate at both Cleveland High School and DSU.
"Between DSU and many of our businesses here, I believe we'll continue to be strong," added Nowell.
Thursday's crowd was filled with a number of local leaders from both the political and business sectors.
Roberts also used the affair to recognize longtime Boyle Mayor Joe Wayne Reed, who announced he would be retiring from the position.
Roberts said she was happy with the turnout and the fact that local businesses and industries continue to grow and thrive.
"The main message tonight is to say thanks to the business leaders and the community members who make this the best place to work and live," she said.


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Director of EPA Office of Underground Storage Tanks to Visit Iowa Nov 18-20
Posted: 11/12/2013
Carolyn Hoskinson, Director of the Office of Underground Storage Tanks for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in Washington DC, will be the luncheon speaker at the Environmental Professionals of Iowa Fall Symposium Nov. 19. She will speak about the past 25 years of underground storage tank system regulation.
Because of environmental and health issues caused by leaks from underground tanks storing petroleum and hazardous chemicals into groundwater, EPA's Office of Underground Storage Tanks was created in 1985 by a Congressional mandate to develop and implement a regulatory program for underground storage tank systems. Owners and operators of underground tanks containing petroleum products or hazardous chemicals are required to monitor tanks for leaks.
Hoskinson directs three Divisions of the Office of Underground Storage Tanks in Washington: Release Prevention; Cleanup and Revitalization; and Management and Communications. The Office works with states like Iowa to prevent and clean up releases from UST systems.
During her stay in Iowa, Hoskinson will meet with students and faculty at Iowa State University, and visit with the Iowa DNR's Underground Storage Tank section, and meet with the Petroleum Marketers and Convenience Stores of Iowa.
Hoskinson began her career with the EPA after graduating from the American University in 1991. She became Director of the Office of Underground Storage Tanks in 2009. This is Hoskinson's first visit to Iowa as Director. Her visit in Iowa marks a pivotal time in underground storage tank regulation: EPA is set to roll out new requirements for underground storage tank system technical standards and operations in 2014. These are the first changes to these regulations in 25 years.


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Demi Moore through the years
POSTED: 12:57 PM PST Nov 09, 2011
UPDATED: 11:00 PM PST Nov 11, 2012
Actress Demi Moore celebrated her 50th birthday over the weekend. In honor of the actress, join us for a look back at her career so far.
The views expressed are not those of this company or its affiliated companies. Please note by clicking on "Post" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms Of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms.
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1. Colored Glass Tea Light Holders - $10 (above) |
Nice Kendall Coleman a West Elm publicist invited me (and a few others) to come meet West Elm's venerable Creative Director Vanessa Holden and then tour the store.
The tour was so much fun! So cool being in a store before it opens. There was an employee meeting and all of the new sales staff was cheering...there were stylists and photographers buzzing around making everything look perfect and making sure to document it all. The space is gorgeous. Kind of a warehouse feel with lots of skylights and industrial touches. Love it.
I felt like a bit of a cliche...kid in a candy store...getting to see a store like this on the eve of its opening.
First and foremost...as far as cool modern home furnishings...it is clear the people at West Elm know what they are doing...so many great home accessories and so much furniture to see...all well edited though and perfectly designed. Love!
The new West Elm store in Los Angeles the day before opening day! (above) |
2. Kitchen Accessories (above and below) |
3. Mercury Owls - $14-$19 (50% of retail price goes to charity!)(above) |
4. Alphabet Mugs - on sale $4 (above and below) |
5. Modernist Mugs - on sale $6 |
6. Bath Accessories! (above and below) |
Love these Hammam ceramic soap dishes with the graphic patterns! (above) |
7. Metal Parsons Desk - $499 (above) |
My faves are the metal Parsons desk, the Mercury Owls (cute table or shelf decor), the bath accessories and the Modernist Mugs. So basically everything!
If you are in Los Angeles today...you should go check out this new West Elm. It opens today! Good affordable options for holiday shopping!
West Elm
8366 Beverly Boulevard (at Kings Road)
Los Angeles
Happy Thursday!
P.S. Great dinner last night with best of guy friend BN and newer friend SCS who is a stylish, clever and nice Hollywood exec who runs a cable network. We went to Madeo and practically closed down the restaurant. Madeo is this Hollywood insiders haven...with fabulous Italian fare and a cozy environment. At the end of the night we got to talking politics - lighthearted politics I might add. Me and best of guy friend BN are always arguing politics so now we just talk about fluffy stuff so we don't fight. It was nice though to have someone on my side of the argument. SCS was so hilarious as she quizzed BN on his views and he tried to quiz back (unsuccessfully). Very hilarious and fun dinner. Can't wait to do it again.
All photos in this post by Coco of COCOCOZY


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(10-17-2012 09:40 PM)dbroockerd Wrote: Chris only cause I wanna help you out I will shoot that $20 to you right now for this card man. Its really not a problem cause I wanna help. 2005 Upper Deck Hall of Fame Class of Cooperstown Autograph-Patch Gold #HK4 H.Kill Twins Portrait (5 of 5 last one made)
(10-17-2012 08:46 PM)elberson Wrote: How many of the #d Ruth's would you do for 20
(10-17-2012 10:24 PM)dbroockerd Wrote: Chris I hope you do know that was a joke.


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Date added | Rating | Set size | Set Title | Model name | Most Discussed |
Featured model : Chihiro Kawaoka
Chihiro is lying by the pool and her boyfriend is there to rub oil on her hot body. He gets carried away and plays with her pussy and fingers it while giving her a massage. They are enjoying their time by the pool and taking advantage of the time alone
- 50%
- Movie size : 127 Mb
- Movie length : 8:19
Featured model : Chihiro Kawaoka
Chihiro is in her yard with her boyfriend. He ties her up so he can play with her pussy. He has a big dildo he is using to tease her tight slit while she is tied up. He enjoys her having to sit there and take the pussy teasing he is giving her!
Chihiro Kawaoka Asian chick gets her pussy spread wide and..
- 50%
- Movie size : 134 Mb
- Movie length : 8:47
@ Idols69.com we collected complete Japanese Pornstars database 4 you...


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Know Your Lore: Anveena Teague and the Sunwell
Those who travel to Sunwell Plateau may have seen her -- the inexplicable human girl trapped in a bubble above the Sunwell itself, even as demons channel dark energies below. Her story is a sad one, one of the more poignant tales in Warcraft's history, but it's by and large unknown to many who play. Which is kind of a pity, when you think about it -- Anveena Teague is one of those clear in-game representations of when written material and game content collide with little success. Despite her story being told in the manga series The Sunwell Trilogy, that story never really made it into the game in any capacity.
It also means that every time myself, one of my guildmates, or simply random people that follow me over on Twitter head into Sunwell Plateau, I'm asked who that girl the bubble is, where she came from, and why she's there. And since we have yet to address Anveena's full story in Know Your Lore, I thought it was high time she was featured in a column of her own. So we're taking a break from Pandaria this week, and instead turning our attention back in time to the days of Lordaeron's fall, the days when draconic intervention was a far more common occurrence, the days when the Scourge marched en masse over the land, to a quiet little hamlet known as Tarren Mill.
Filed under: Lore, Know your Lore


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This so much. I, like many, many other fans desperately long to see Brandon's epic beauty of an ass spread open for a big dick but if my choice is between Brandon only ever topping or no Brandon at all I will take the former every day and twice on Sundays, say please, thank you and skip away happy I got it! I literally adore him too much to ultimately care what he's doing so long as he's doing gay porn.
Please do not get me started on how awesome it would be if it were old CF Brent! Brent's one of my CF all-time Top 3. Brandon's so hyper-responsive to everything that CF Brent doing his "thing" where he just sort unleashes his seduction mojo and lavishes so much attention on guys would work Brandon into a state!
that looks like as much fun than the legendary jamie ben shower
Damn Brandon is so NAUGHTY. Just freaking LOVE HIM.
Brandon with Stu. I don't care who bottoms or tops. It would be so awesome. Unfortunately, I don't think Stu is around anymore, but I would rank him a very close second to Brandon as all time SC fave. Of course, Jamie isn't far behind.
Last edited by uconnflyer; January 5th, 2013 at 08:29 AM.
Funny, in this interview Brice said about leaving SC: "the scenes weren't fun to shoot". Looks like their acting skills are very good.
Also in Brice's interview, "I never met a single gay guy that I shot with on that site." At sc. Brice did scenes (bottomed) with Calvin, Marshall, Jarek, and Joshua.
According to that interview, Brice was Joshua's "first everything" with a guy and he's straight. If Joshua doesn't like men then neither do I.
But yeah, that interview was not very fun to read.
Everything about Joshua screams gay, which isn't a bad thing especially since he's not a queeny bitch.
I can/always have believe(d) that Marshall and Jarek are straight. Joshua is definitely gay. Calvin confuses me though - I have a hard time believe he's completely straight but he doesn't strike me as being completely gay either, maybe bi?
Marshall might be straight, but he certainly knows how to please men.
Speaking of Marshall, I hope he comes back soon.
Funny he should work for Helix when he says he doesn't like to do bareback scenes...
Joshua has a girlfriend but he's definitely bi (sexually), Calvin comes across as bi as well.
He's definitely buysexual.
How do you remember all their passwords? Or do they all have the same password?
I miss him!
fleeflaafloo meh ^^
Can't wait for Brandon to bottom. And I'd like to see Jeffrey back too. It's been a while.
The whole narrative with Joshua has always been that he's been straight in the past, but was openly curious about guys. There's lot's of semi-serious joking about how he's becoming increasingly gay. Makes sense to me. He was pretty much straight when Brice did him, but he seems to acknowledge really liking the boys now.
And can I just say that I've never seen the fascination with Jamie. He was a really good performer, but the way a lot of people idolize him is hard for me to relate to.
Jamie's appeal had even more to do with his personality than his considerable good looks. For me at least he was one of those models who realized my maddest teen-aged dream: the jock who I'd spent hours hopelessly drooling over in trig class really was queer!
He was a dirty boy and looked like he'd be a fun roll! I loved the way he whimpered when he got fucked!
He's totally fallen off the radar. I wonder if he really joined the SEALS like he said he was going to do in his solo. Maybe he's scratched his queer itch, gone back to wherever, resumed a straight life. So many of these guys, even the ones you're convinced are 6/6 homo, end up doing just that.
My biggest fear is that he's going to turn up on some site like "men.com"
Totally this. He's cute, he's got a rockin' body, he's so enthusiastic. You can tell he's loving every minute of it.
My feeling on Jamie is that if he's not at the least bisexual, he's the greatest actor I've ever seen. Gay for payers can be convincing, no question. Jamie, on the other hand, simply so far exceeds that standard that you can't help but wonder.
Who's the boy in the pic above chewing pillow?
Last edited by evilheat2003; January 6th, 2013 at 03:23 PM.
Brice has personally confirmed that Jarek, Joshua and Calvin are DEFINITELY straight.
Now, Joshua, who's first time with a guy was with Brice, may have evolved, but the other two are straight as they come. Personally, Calvin had me fooled, I thought he was gay or bisexual at least.
Such a downer.
You cant believe everything that is said about these porn stars. If we believed it all there would no actual gay porn stars - they would all be straight men just doing it for the money. They also exaggerate the size of their equipment and backgrounds. Its all bullshit Im afraid
Yes, Brice did an interview and said they are all straight.
That's something he may be required to do as part of his original SC contract, that probably has some clause about talking about what went on there even after he's gone.
It may also be his way of not burning bridges to SC
Or it may just be that none of those three has officially come out yet.
Seriously guys - these discussions always crack me up, mostly because every single one of you knows better: how many times have you had sex with a "straight" guy? How many CraigsList ads are from married guys looking for a some gay sex on the side?
Okay? So you know that there are a whole lot of guys in denial or totally confused about their sexuality and not ready to come out. And that the vast majority of those guys are what we call "straight-acting" - guys who don't fit the (inaccurate) effeminate gay stereotype and whose declaration that they are straight does not raise eyebrows.
I'm not saying that every SC or CF model is gay, but a lot of them have not fully figured out their sexuality yet or they're in complete denial.
As others have suggested on here, for some of them, working for SC allows them to experiment in a way that may actually feel safe as they can pretend to just be "gay for pay"
And while I'm on that soapbox: SC curiously never mentions Abe's sexuality. There's no BS about whether he likes girls with big tits or how he likes to fuck them. And he does seem to love fucking his twinks. Thoughts?
Lately, SC has been very vague about their models' preferences. Sometimes, they reveal a little queer kink in the write-up but most of the time they keep us guessing. All we can do is read between the lines during the scenes and the BTS; I think that's where we get the better idea of what the guys like (camera's don't lie).
Abe comes across like the typical bi-curious dom top. I imagine he prefers dating girls but he probably has a thing for fucking boys he picks up at the gym, the beach, the club, etc. I've had one of them before but he was more of Haigan's caliber (from SS and CM and Tyson from CF).
Well said. On a related note - I was talking to a friend of mine who is a proctologist and we were talking about prostate exams (we had a few wines at this time) and he mentioned how his straight male patients react to having a finger in their arse and all the dramas and anxiety this causes. By contrast, his gay clients enjoy the experience.
Perhaps if we take this observation and project it onto "gay for pay" porn stars it makes some sense around how much bullshit we are fed about actors being straight or experimenting. Seeing a porn star with 2 cocks up his arse being fucked senseless and enjoying it and then being told he is straight is ridiculous.
Umm...I'm gay as hell and a bottom and I didn't dig my prostate exam at all. My doc just stuck a lubed finger in my ass and pulled it out. There was nothing to enjoy. There was a massive difference between receptive anal sex and that examination. The 2 experiences are virtually incomparable.
And, of course, there are plenty str8 men in the world who enjoy anal stimulation. For free. Off camera. Just as there are plenty gay men who dislike anal stimulation.
Brandon is simply the hottest dude currently doing dude porn. That is all....
Re: my earlier post, I stand corrected! I guess Stu did return after all. But it's only an oral scene so maybe he won't be returning after this. But fingers crossed he comes back for more!
A shame that he was paired with Aidan though...
I will be astounded if Stu comes back for a hardcore scene. I'll be even more shocked if he ever bottoms. I didn't think he'd come back.
If I remember correctly, he didn't say they were straight - he just said they weren't gay, meaning they could possibly be Bi (like most people think Joshua/Calvin are). Brice may be one of those guys who doesn't "believe in bisexuality."
On the topic of Abe, I am 10000% positive he's gay-4-pay.
While I don't think he's gay, I do feel that Abe isn't 100% straight either. My guess is that (as was postulated before) he's most likely bi-curious and taking SC as an opportunity to experiment as an "undercover" gay-4-payer.
And I was very surprised to see Stu back as well. Based on his demeanor in the scene, he probably won't be back for more. He didn't really seem that into it. Although that could just be because he was uncomfortable/creeped out by Aidan (I would have been too). Hope he does come back for at least one or two hardcore scenes though...
That sounds about right - I got the sense he's done this before, probably with some guy who's been checking him out at the gym or the beach. Probably surprised the bottom too with how passionate he was and how much he got off on their body/hard dick.
I remember Haigan from CM - hot guy, though if your dude was as hung as Hagen - ouch!


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Larimer Humane Society is contracted by Fort Collins, Loveland and Larimer County (for unincorporated areas) to enforce and uphold local and state animal protection and control ordinances and laws.
While each contract varies in scope, the services remain relatively the same. Larimer Humane Society ensures for the proper care and humane treatment of animals in our community, as well as the safety of Larimer County residents and visitors to our community from potentially dangerous animals by:
If you have a life-threatening emergency, please contact 911.
For all other animal-related protection and control calls, please click on the city you reside in below for more information on the services offered in your community.
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Fort Collins | Loveland | Larimer County (unincorporated) |
If you reside in Berthoud, Estes Park, Johnstown, Timnath, Wellington or Windsor, please contact your local government offices for information on their services.
If your answer is not found online, please call our dispatch office at (970) 226-3647 ext. 7.


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Zoots Alures 5pts I have just over 33k miles on my 2012 Passat TDI SE 6sp manual. Here are my observations:Purchase to date - I'm averaging 47 MPG with between 45% - 60% being city driving. My best highway was a sustained 56 MPG when I drove the posted highway speed limit. It was quite the challenge because - Torque (236 lbs.) - In every gear you can snap your neck back into the headrest! Though the torque cliff is around 4,2k RPM you'll be up-shifting well before hand if not going full throttle.Fit & Finish - I have a triple black Passat with the 17" Continental Pro Contacts. All season tires but I know that this New England Winter will be a challenge because of the torque - though I'll most probably start off in 2nd. or even 3rd. in snow or ice. Body, creases, and fitment - All seams are very well calibrated;as is the finish.The ride - If you are a fan of German chassis rigidity you won't be disappointed at all. Handles bumps, speed-bumps, uneven terrain exceptionally well. Active dampers keep you strait up.The front seats are firm and very supportive. The leg room up front can handle anyone up to 7' with no problems. Where I was used to setting the seat all the way back on my older Volvo XCountry and Honda Odyssey I don't come close on this one and I'm 5'11". Then there's the rear seat - It's cavernous to say the least. It's clean, comfortable, and very spacious. I used to drive a BMW 750iL and this Passat comes very close to the rear legroom space. The trunk - It's freekn' huge - No problem packing four standard golf bags into it along with all the incidentals for four players. The rear seat-release latch is located in the trunk for both seat backs. Pull the lever and push or pull either seat down. The seats almost fold down flush but not perfect. The spare (3/4) tire is located under the rear main floor. The DPE (Urea) tank is on the near right side of the trunk. A single tank of DPE will most assuredly last a minimum of 10k miles.This is my first VW Branded car. It won over my short-list competition of: Acura TL - SHAWD, Infinity M-37x, and Honda Cross-Tour. Honestly, the TDI's fuel mileage and overall performance is a win-win!
CamTID 5pts Interesting to note the exchange between VeeDub4LF and Schum1F1Fan. I am researching cars since my current car is getting up in years (16 yrs, 170K miles). One of my sons recently bought a VW, and I am impressed. My SIL in Germany just told my wife that her son's VW quit on him and it was going to cost 7,000 Euros to replace "the pump". I flipped out when I heard this. What kind of a car needs a pump that costs almost 35 to 50% of a reasonable purchase price? So, I went on line today to read up on what is being said about VW. This is not the only site where I have found references to $10,000 repairs for a VW. I appreciate reading VeeDub4LF's post. I happen to think it's valid. VW has a problem which I will keep in mind as I continue to evaluate what car (if any) will replace my trustworthy 1997 Camry V6 which I love to show off with when challenged by a VW, even a Beamer. I have been beaten, but not by a VW. (It was a little Honda with one of those speed kits.) My old Camry will still go in excess of (censored) and peel just a tiny bit of rubber. I suspect SchumiF1Fan is a shill for VW. What is your position with VW Sir/Ma'am? How long have you been in their employ? Alles mit humor gemeint lieber Freunde! Hang in there "Volkswagen for life", I take it you are a true VW lover and are voicing a legitimate complaint. Bravo!
Connie Motz 5pts Just traded our 2011 Camry on a Passat SE. Good riddance. Camry was reliable,yes but driving it is best described as 'flabby' and boring. Horrible re-sale value, BTW. But enough abt. negatives; on to the positive:The driving dynamic and sheer joy of the superior handling of the Passat sold us. My husband and I have been watching/reading abt. the car since its winning COTY. Motor Trend did a recent comparison[ Dec.2012] of most of the Passats' competition, Honda, Toyo, etc. and the Passat won again! With abt. 500 miles on it, we are excited abt. our upcoming ' Super Trek' 5-week round-trip vacation from our North Carolina home to California [visiting as many Nat'l Parks as we can]. Let's DRIVE!!
Thumper Simpson 5pts Just traded my A3 TDI for a Passat TDI SEL> AWESOME CAR! B-U-T, the absence of seat bottom tilt is inexcusable for the top of the line sedan from VW! German engineering compromised by American bean counters????
EricJT7 5pts While the Passat is far from one of the most exciting cars of today, that is not what it is meant to be. Instead, it offers practicality, affordability, and efficiency. All while providing a nicely equipped, styled, and comfortable interior.
PassatATL 5pts I recently purchased base S model, manuel transmission. I love it. Plenty of pep vs 6 automatic in my opinion. No bells and whistles other than what I really need/want in a car. And I am quite sure a lot of love went into building my car - and all VWs out of the TN plant. Glad to see VW received COTY !
SchumiF1Fan 5pts You say "nichts besonderes" -- that's 'nothing special', for those who don't speak German. Could it look better? Of course it could. It could look more like the CC, but it differentiates itself from the Japanese and Korean cars.I say, you should go see this car in person - and go drive one. I did that last weekend, and I was quite impressed. This is a very good car for the price. It is solid, quiet, and drives well. If I were in the market for a large sedan, I would consider buying one. I'm more of a 5-door fan, though, so we bought a SportWagon TDI 6-Speed manual. Over two years, our average mpg is about 40, mostly in daily city driving. I think it's great that VW is making the new Passat in Chattanooga. I'm looking forward to more new models coming out of this plant.
Quincyian 5pts I was looking forward to the COY issue. This years selection really surprised me. What we have here is very vanilla looking car. They should have named it the VW Bland. It is not particularly efficient. Oh yes there is the diesel that gets about 30% better mpg, but then diesel fuel costs 30% more than gasoline. I suspect that Accord and Camry people might take a look and determine it looks a lot like the car they already and then go buy another Camry or Accord. I want to wish VW a lot of luck on world domination with looks and engineering like this.
VeeDub4LF 5pts My goal is to have more people put pressure on VW to fix a horrible design and give some type of assurance for the customers that have already purchased a VW CR TDI. Either through an extended warranty on the pump or a pump recall. If you have 50,000 people asking VW WTF is up with this pump they may do something. True Diesels will not run with gas in the tank...but how many past designs result in a $10,000 complete fuel system replacement? It is fairly common in the US to have poor quality fuel, not just gas in the fuel but also water as well as the lower lubricating properties as compared to EU Diesel. People should know that they are rolling the dice if they decide to keep this car past the warranty like most TDI owners aim to. Rolling the dice on your next fill up being sub par fuel and you having to make a repair equal to half what the car is worth or more. I had a HPFP failure at 18,000mi on m 2011 Golf TDI, no contamination ever only filled at large truck stops. VW has let us down.
SchumiF1Fan 5pts Ok, VeeDub, what exactly is your goal here? To scare people away from diesel VWs, of which thousands and thousands have been sold to happy customers.I'm an engineer,and I've done my own research on the NHTSA Investigation, # EA11-003. Of course, there appears to be an issue with fuel pump failure, but you have to dig a little deeper. In about 90% of the cases, there was gasoline in the diesel fuel. Was diesel fuel at the filling stations contaminated, or did someone actually put gasoline in the diesel VW? Who knows? What I do know is that no diesel car, from any manufacturer, will run with a mix of diesel and gasoline in the tank. It's been a couple of weeks since I researched this, and after reviewing the NHTSA file and speaking with people at VW, I am convinced that the diesel fuel pump failure in TDI models is not a large scale issue. In fact, I read that the failure rate for 2010 vehicles was 0.11%.VW TDIs are great cars. There are four in our family, and none have had any issues.
VeeDub4LF 5pts I am a VW fan, have been for years. That said if you want a Diesel either get a used VW (prior to 08) or go BMW. The new VW TDI is one of the worst designed cars on the road. Any car that can have a $10,000 fuel pump bill is a looser in my world. This is no Ferrari, we expect more from VW. They keep failing by the day. Read all about it.http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=286380http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299854VW's dirty little secret. Buy at your own risk.
SchumiF1Fan 5pts I really appreciate living in a country where we have the right to free speech. We should enjoy our freedom. That said, however, it very sad that this 'STORY' of the diesel fuel pump failure seems to be brought up over and over again. Before you get scared away from buying a great diesel VW, that gets around 40 mpg in town and 50 mpg on the highway, without hybrid hyper-miling driving, you should go test drive some of these cars, and do your own research.Once you drive a VW TDI, you will become a diesel fan.
DWGTI 5pts The Jap crap is on the wane. It is time once again for our beloved Germany to abolish the inferiors, to rid the world of junk automobiles.My friends, this is the future. No longer will we be coerced to drive soulless cars designed by ungrateful, revenge filled Asians. We will eliminate the scourge of inferior Jap cars.
DWGTI 5pts The nonsense of unreliable VWs is outdated. I had one of the first Rabbits in 1975, a 1977 Rabbit, and now a 2008 GTI. The GTI has proven as reliable as Tacomas-in fact the Toyota required more maintenance. Germans have the prowess, and technology.
VeeDub4LF 5pts When the High Pressure Fuel Pump fails...and it will. It is a $10,000+ fix on the TDI. Think twice abour saving a few bucks at the pump and just get the gas powered one. VW needs to fix it's TDI design.
RealDCMan 5pts LETS BE REAL HERE.This Car Diserved The Award.All you prissy people complaining cannot get over the fact that Volkswagen Group has become super competitive. The past is the past with Reliability, and from 2008+ All Volkswagen Cars are Average to Above Average in that segment. Many Other makes Domestic and Imports score much less in Reliability.GetOverTheFactThatBORING PLASTIC FILLED TIN CAN VANILLA CARS are no longer winner CAR OF THE YEAR.Side note, The same people complaining here about the Passat are also in the other forum (SUV OF THE YEAR) saying how a HONDA CRV or TOYOTA RAV4 Should of won. GIVE ME A BREAK.
adamlink 5pts When you google high pressure fuel pump failures in TDIs be sure to read the articles, too, and not just the subject lines.If you do you'll find that even the people reporting these problems say they rarely occur.
adamlink 5pts The comments about "real men" not driving the Passat are laughable, and that's being charitable. The Passat is primarily a family car, like everything else in its class, and not just for single men, gay or straight.BTW, there is less than half a second difference between 0-60 times for a V6 Camaro and a V6 Passat. (The Camaro takes 6 sec., the Passat 6.4.) Sounds pretty manly to me.
mylesmac 5pts VW reliability? Like most brands, it varies. My 1999 B5 Passat 1.8T finally needs some major work...after 2 teenagers have abused the manual transmission for 5 years. 2002 Beetle Turbo S was a blast, but body parts started falling off after 5-6 years and both EGR and anti-lock systems failed at the 7/8 year mark. 2006 Audi A3 2.0T blew an injector at 50K but otherwise fine. 2007 B6 Passat Wagon 2.0T, bought used for a song due to an electrical system problem, was fixed at no charge by VW and has been a charm...only improvement would be a diesel engine. 2011 Sportwagon TDI is a jewel. I still own all but the 2002 Turbo S (my wife isn't out of mourning, yet). I guess you can argue second hand information or extrapolate from one example to damn the brand. I've been pretty pleased with the performance, safety, reliability and service I've received over the past 12 years.I've test driven the 2012 Passat TDI and agree with Motor Trend; it will be my next purchase.
SchumiF1Fan 5pts Excellent post, Danny428!VW has come a long way and continues to improve. We love our TDI and are averaging around 40 mpg in daily driving -- and about 50 on the highway.Quality, ride, and comfort are on par or better than our BMW, and cost of driving is much lower, even with diesel prices higher than premium.If we needed another car, we would definitely consider another VW TDI.
danny428 5pts I subscribed to Motortrend, Autoweek and a few other car magazines and mostly the reviews are great for the Passat. I have owned BMW X5, Acura MDX, Ford Explorer, Saab 92X, Toyota Camry, Honda Civic and a few other cars. I just bought a VW Passat TDI and even my wife love it more than any other cars, and our 2 other cars are driving great. People should go test drive the car if they are in the market instead of listening to clueless posters who think "real men don't drive Jetta, Passat, Beetles or Audi." Sounds like some stuborn people are still stuck in the 60's believing American cars are the only ones that are muscle cars. Grow up. Outside of your cave.As for the poster who commented that VW are cheaply made, do you get out much? The VW Passat's quality is about the same as the X5 we got.I have friends who are car buffs and love their VW Passats and Golf just as much as their BMW or Mercedes. Go compare the Passat with the Camry or Accord, both on and off the road, then we'll talk.
monopoly 5pts The VW Passat as COTY? Motor Trend must be in need of new advertising dollars. Seems as if the only people defending MT's choice here are current or new VW owners (imagine that). In a couple of years this POS will be riddled with "nagging" problems and reliability issues just like most cheaply made VW's of past/present.
VeeDub4LF 5pts Google VW High Pressure Fuel Pump failure before you think about buying the TDI version of this car....
mrbvlo 5pts @svms12; I can appreciate a well made car like the Passat as much as the next person, but most people buy cars as an extention of their personality. Most of the cars made these days are of high quality and build; excellent performance and ride. My comment was for the judges, of which I'm willing to bet a couple "gay" guys were in there voting for the car that best reflects their personalities. This isn't about the COTY as much as it is about pushing your own liberal agenda on the rest of the Country. I just hate to see a car magazine go "political" like this. The Subaru or the Lexus are much better cars. The Kia Rio has more style to it than a Passat. Personally, I don't want a bunch a girlie boys picking a COTY. And in my opinion, real men were lacking in this so called contest! Perhaps you are still young, but there are certain cars that scream "I like boys" and you need to decide if you want to be driving them.
lindtech 5pts For once Motor Trend nailed it. This is a great car and is the best value out there. I have driven many VW's and never have had any maintenance problems.
svmsl2 5pts @mrbvlo: I like this car, and I'm a single man, but I am definitely not gay. What would your COTY choice have been anyway?
mrbvlo 5pts Of course the COTY is always a controversial matter and will not please everyone. But I think most folks will agree that the Passat and Jetta are both cars that are prefered by single gay men. You see a guy driving a Passat or Jetta and my money says 9 times out of 10, he's gay! Real men don't drive Jettas, Passats, or Beetles, or Audi's for that matter! I'm so sick and tired of the bias Motor Trend shows for the German built autos. Even worse is continued pussification of this magazine by the editorial staff. Should of had a pink cover to make the award complete.
leicaman 5pts I think that many of you folks who are negative on this new VW have not driven it at length. I have and I consider it a really nice ride. I personally own a 2005 Passat TDI GLS. While it had to have a retrofit of a gear driven oil pump mechanism to rid this motor of the chain driven module, it overall has been a pretty decent car, which is now at 109k and still pulls down 42 mpg on a trip. A friend of mine has the same car with nearly 200k, with the conversion and pretty much normal scheduled maintenance that he does himself as well as I. I think the big issue in my mind is the dealership service departments, which really must be reckoned with by VW. My dealer actually is pretty decent, but I have heard and personally seen some pretty bad results. If the dealer service departments follow the service manual for all the repairs, normally cars will not self-destruct after their 'work'. VW needs to stop blaming the customer for problems when a car goes down. It is part of the German culture unfortunately.
my2012volks 5pts Hey, the new VWs are clearly crisper and sportier in appearance than the preceding models, as well as much of the competition; the Camry is sharp, but the Corolla and Yaris - phew! I've owned many watercooled VWs and had only minor problems, so I don't believe that only Japanese products are good; I've seen many reports that industrywide reliability has greatly improved since the days of MGBs and Chryslers frequenting emergency lanes.
luvmyprius 5pts Really? The Passat? The Toyota Camry should have won Car of the Year. Especially in light of the three models of Camry's, Sonata's and Passat's you tested in the December issue. You stated that the new Camry resembles the previous generation, which it does not. But this "all new" Passat doesn't look "new" at all. It's like the new Jetta, uglier on the outside and cheap as hell on the inside.The Passat CANNOT beat the Camry's value, gas mileage and of course reliability.VW's have the worst reliability right down there with Chrysler. I might have disagreed with some of your choices for Car of the Year in the past, but this time you guys are just DEAD WRONG!
rocketman919 5pts I am not any kind of expert, just an average driver. I don't drive cars for performance but to get around. I spent a day driving all kinds of cars to benefit breast cancer. I drove over 13 cars of various makes, all high end cars. The Passat was by far the biggest piece of junk I drove. I don't know what's wrong with me or the one I drove, but it was cheaply put together on the interior and the steering was loose. It rode rough and I was not at all impressed. I couldn't believe it was picked by MT as the car of the year. They must have had a much different car than I had.
SchumiF1Fan 5pts @ VeeDubThis $10,000 Story is getting old.Let's look at the facts. Research "EA11-003".Please read the comments posted by adamlink. He is right.Thousands and thousands of VW TDIs have been sold, and a few problems have been reported, with the likely cause of component failure being the wrong fuel in the tank. Are the repairs potentially expensive? I'm sure they are. Operator error usually is, regardless of what kind of vehicle you are driving.Diesel powered cars are fuel efficient, fun to drive, and have a good resale value. That is the message that potential Passat TDI buyer should be getting.
VeeDub4LF 5pts @ adamlink-A $10,000 Fuel pump repair should be a factor to anyone that reads this is car of the year and decides to go have a look at one because of this COTY Award. The US buying public should know what kind of nightmare they will face if they get one of the new VW TDI's. Not many people can stomach the thought of a repair bill that totals half of what the car is worth for one fuel pump going bad while out of warranty.
slowloris 5pts My COTY is TOYOTA Camry, best engine, fastest, lighter than VW P-t, looks are subjective but I don't like the grill of VW. Would I rely on VW to travel over 2000 miles on vacation? absolutely not. On any Toyota, absolutely, positively yes.
lasvegascolonel 5pts Whoever wrote this article and called this a "yank tank" has probably not been to Europe. That's a term the Americans and Europeans use to describe a LARGE AMERICAN car...not a mid-sized, smaller than an old compact German car, despite the fact it's going to be made here. Must be young people who never travel.
adamlink 5pts "The engine mounts that need to be replaced and the oil sludge problems are consistant with TDI engines. The service manager at the local dealer in my area admited that it is still a problem with current models."The company that has had more problems with oil sludging in engines than any other company in the world is Toyota, not VW. I asked the service mgr. at my local dealer and he said the current TDI does not have a problem with oil sludging, or motor mounts.The negative comments about reliability are about as legit as saying the Camry should have been disqualified automatically because of Unintended Acceleration problems. Completely bogus.
adamlink 5pts "Buy the TDI Passat and face a $10,000+ repair bill if your high pressure fuel pump fails and you are at 60,001 miles. . ."If you are out of warranty you are out of warranty. Doesn't matter what company you're talking about. Toyota, Honda, GM, Ford, whatever. Nobody covers failures outside of warranty.This is irrelevant to the COTY award.
lions208487 5pts The engine mounts that need to be replaced and the oil sludge problems are consistant with TDI engines. The service manager at the local dealer in my area admited that it is still a problem with current models. This is a driving test, and in that regard this VW succeeds. However, VW's are almost never reliable except for in the VW fanboy's minds that defend them despite their service track records. I like the way VW's look and how fun they are to drive, but in my own experience with a previous 04 and a friends 07 model yr end, I will never purchase another VW product again. I would rather get a base Accord or Malibu over a Passat, simply because of the headache that VW cars have given me in the past.
adamlink 5pts And that is the whole purpose of bringing these complaints up-- to steer the discussion away from the fact that the new VW Passat is a great car that deserves the COTY award, and get us mired in an argument over the reliability of the TDI engine, which by any standard is one of the most reliable engines in the world (and the poster knows it).I don't know the exact number, but there are something like 8 million TDIs on the road today (counting all the models that use this engine). The suggestion that each one of them, or even a large percentage of them, will require a $10,000 repair is absolute horseshine.
SchumiF1Fan 5pts I am not doubting that some expensive repairs occurred. I am an engineer. I want to know why something failed. Was it fuel contamination, or was the wrong fuel mistakenly put in the tank?Out of the thousands of TDIs sold the last few years, it seems like a relatively small number of 'failures'. I would hardly call that a 'fatal flaw' in the pump.I would like to see some honest answers from the mechanics who made these $10,000 repairs. What was the real cause of the failure?I think it is also time for VW of America to step up and give us some answers.Too bad this discussion is taking attention away from the fact that the Passat won Motor Trend Car of the Year.
VeeDub4LF 5pts Check it out for yourself... It's VW's dirty little secret. Roll the dice on a new TDI at your own risk until they address this problem. Read all about it. :)http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=286380Also a nice list of failures that keeps rising.http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299854The HPFP in depth.http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=284441VW has left it's loyal TDI owners up a creek with this one. If I would have known about this horrible design I never would have bought one. A 10k repair on a 20k car is absurd.
SchumiF1Fan 5pts This note is to Angus MacKenzie and the Motor Trend technical staff:Could you please investigate the claims made by VeeDub4LF below? Also, in the comments on the article announcing the Passat as a contender for COTY, one person - "FormerVWPilot" - makes some very serious allegations, stating that there is a "fatal flaw" in the VW TDI fuel pump, that there have been numerous designs, and the problems persist. Please read that person's comments, as well as other commentary.I'm all for Freedom of Speech, and I like the fact that Motortrend.com provides readers the opportunity to voice their opinions about cars and issues affecting the auto industry, like CAFE, but I think when you make unsubstantiated allegations and say that a manufacturer has a "fatal flaw", without providing sources for your information, it is unprofessional.I would like to see the truth come out about potential high pressure fuel pump issues on TDI engines.Motor Trend Editors: Could you please address this? Thank you.
VeeDub4LF 5pts Buy the TDI Passat and face a $10,000+ repair bill if your high pressure fuel pump fails and you are at 60,001 miles....yeah great choice for COTY...WTF VW
_E60_ 5pts I cant believe this boring, ho-hum family sedan got COTY.Seriously, this thing seems dull even by family sedan measures. I guess I have to actually drive this thing to see what they are raving about.
danny428 5pts People should stop bashing something they only see on the computer and go check it out if they're really in the market for a midsize car. We got a 2012 Passat TDI SE last month and are very happy with the car. 35.4 mpg first tank, getting better with time, look and drive much nicer than Camry or Acord, huge trunk. Motortrend editors know what they're talking about, unlike Edmunds reviewers, just looking at the 140 hp on the TDI on the spec sheet and commented that it does not have passing power on the freeway. 140 hp and 236 lb/ft torque at 1500 rpm will burn rubber much easier from a stop easier than 265 hp on my wife's MDX, it might sound funny, but you h ave to try it out yourself.


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Stream AmbassadorsJoin this group
video BY chris_wood ON February 4 - 0 COMMENTS
Hit 'Em Again Doc Posted in Stream Ambassadors, Conservation, Potomac River Wild Fish Challenge, Trout Magazine, Little Cacapon River, Site Bugs, Chapter Sites Users Group
Pete Wood, one of the great guides from Silver Creek Outfitters, carp fishing madman, and fantatstic intern with TU last summer in Arlington is featured here. Well worth watching...
video BY Josh Duplechian ON September 27 - 0 COMMENTS
National Public Lands Day - 2013 Posted in Stream Ambassadors, Drift Boats, Conservation, West of The Rockies, Photographers, Colorado TU, Boulder Flycasters - 082, Fly Fishing Film Tour, The Front Porch, Backcountry, Trout Magazine, Climate Change, Idaho Trout Unlimited, Renewable Energy, Wyoming Range, Little Mountain, Thompson Divide, Rio Grande del Norte, Sportsmen Ride Right, The Green River, Alpine Triangle, Dolores River, National Public Lands Day - 2013
National Public Lands Day is Saturday September 28, 2013. Get out to support your public lands.
video BY chris_wood ON August 12 - 0 COMMENTS
Riding the waves on the Little Cacapon
All it takes is a little water, and some tough feet, for a good time.
discussion BY chris_wood ON August 8 - 0 COMMENTS
Bull sharks in the Potomac!
I still remember reading a book as a boy about a bull shark that ran up a river in NJ and killed a father and son. Watch out wet waders! Seven feet and 500 lbs of fun coming at you. Perhaps a new entry for... [ READ MORE... ]
video BY Josh Duplechian ON July 2 - 0 COMMENTS
Thompson Divide Vignette - Kara Armano Posted in Conservation, West of The Rockies, Photographers, Colorado TU, Backcountry, Thompson Divide, Stream Ambassadors, Boulder Flycasters - 082, Climate Change, Sportsmen Ride Right
Located west of Carbondale, Colo., the Thompson Divide is one of the most pristine places in the West and is currently under threat from energy development. It harbors some of the best elk hunting in the state, a dozen populations of cutthroat trout, and source waters for numerous renowned... [ READ MORE... ]
discussion BY Doug.Agee ON June 30 - 1 COMMENTS
Who's going to the 2013 Annual Meeting in Madison Posted in Stream Clean-up, Conservation, Utah - 9UT, Renewable Energy, Chapter Sites Users Group, New Hampshire - 9NH, Stream Ambassadors, New England Women in TU, TU Women's Discussion
If you haven't checked out the information on the 2013 Annual Members Meeting, take a look. It is going to be a great time in Madison, WI with opportunities to learn and network with other Trout Unlimited members from around the country and your favorite TU National Staff members. We would like to... [ READ MORE... ]
video BY chris_wood ON June 20 - 0 COMMENTS
Carp on the fly Posted in Stream Ambassadors, Potomac-Patuxent - 236, Potomac River Wild Fish Challenge, Little Cacapon River
A really nice carp. Took 20 mins to land
discussion BY Jonathan Trzil ON September 2 - 5 COMMENTS
What are good drift boats? Posted in Stream Ambassadors, East Tennessee Fly Fishing, South Eastern Fly Tactics, Drift Boats, Stream Clean-up, Fishing from a Canoe or Kayack
video BY fish4budz ON August 31 - 2 COMMENTS
CuttCreek Posted in Stream Ambassadors
short video of a day out with the dog on an east idaho creek catching lots of hungry cutts and a white fish or two.
discussion BY fish4budz ON August 31 - 4 COMMENTS
Album for our fishin dogs? Posted in Stream Ambassadors
I gotta admit it, I can waste an entire afternoon looking at photographs. especially of outdoors/fishing or anything related.. including dogs!
Should we start a folder for pictures of our adventure mutts? My dog is my ultimate adventure partner. her name is Annapurna after the himilayan mnt chain... [ READ MORE... ]


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Last summer (NZ summer) I played a lot of LotR LCG because I had a nice playing surface available every lunch time. I didn't have anyone to play with, so I just played solo (1 hand). I created 2 decks, so that I could use all 4 spheres. I then started tacking the quests, in order. I played with deck A until I beat the quest at least once, and then shifted to deck B. Gradually I progressed through the quests, eventually reaching Rhosgobel. Unfortunately at that point, we had to move, and my new office didn't have a nice playing surface, so several months passed before I picked up the game again.
A couple months ago, I began my second "push" through the quests. Since I felt a bit rusty, I decided to start over again with Passage through Mirkwood, but didn't restrict myself to the Core set. The idea was that since I now had more cards available to me, and was more experienced with the game, I should be able to quickly progress through the quests until I reach Rhosgobel again, and then finally enter terra incognita.
Well, that was the theory at least.
The reality is that I feel am stalled. And I think the problem is that is it hard to gain momentum, due in part to decision paralysis.
After playing once or twice a week for the past couple months, I am still on Passage through Mirkwood, and am still nowhere close to feeling satisfied that I have "finished" it and am ready to progress to the Anduin. Why am I stuck? Well, let's see how I have spent my time: (Note that the days are based on memory and therefore an approximation):
Day 1: I sorted my cards. They were in whatever state I left them last summer. Since I no longer felt connected with those decks, I wanted a clean slate. I therefore sorted them all out again, replacing the card sleeves that had ripped. This took my entire lunch break.
Day 2: I built a Leadership/Spirit deck. I felt overwhelmed with options. It took me forever to whittle down to about 80 cards. If I had only been playing with the Core Set, it would have been easier, but I hadn't separated the Core Set from the expansion packs I had opened. It took the entire day just to construct a deck.
Day 3: I built a Tactics/Lore deck. The Leadership/Spirit deck would be my "A" deck. and this would be my "B" deck. It took the entire lunch break to decide which cards to use, and I still had too many.
Day 4: I finally got to play. I played the Leadership/Spirit deck, and won. It felt too easy. I was slow because of having to re-learn the rules and look up errata, so the single game took the entire break. I had too many cards, so wanted to get rid of some of them. However, I didn't know which to get rid of, so decided to play the same deck the next day.
Day 5: I played Leadership/Spirit deck again, and this time lost. I think I got stuck with too many event cards. I got rid of a bunch of them, and tried again, and won. I still wasn't convinced I had "mastered" the scenerio with Leadership/Spirit, so I decided to give it a final shot the next day.
Day 6: I played Leadership/Spririt again and won. I was now relatively happy with my deck. although I knew it still had too many cards. I was ready to tackle the dreaded Tactics deck (assisted by Lore) on the next day.
Day 7: I played and lost Tactics/Lore. It was painful. I didn't feel like I was drawing bad cards or that luck was a factor; it was just that this deck really stunk as questing and threat management. And if I was having trouble on Passage through Mirkwood, which is the easiest quest, then this deck had no chance with the other quests. I knew that I would dread playing with it each time. So I decided to forget the Tactics/Lore idea, and instead pair Tactics with Spirit, so that Eowyn could help the Tactics morons heroes quest.
Day 8: Since I decided to switch to Tactics/Spirit, this meant I had to pair Leadership with Lore. So today I built a Leadership/Lore deck. This meant I had to disassemble both of my decks first, before building the two new ones: Leadership/Lore (the new "A") and Tactics/Spirit (the new "B").
Day 9: Today I played the new Leadership/Lore deck, and loved it. Leadership cranked out resources, and Lore cranked out cards. What a natural combination! The only downside is that Bilbo died. I was playing with him in order to force myself to learn some of the non-Core heroes. I think it's the Hummerhorns that took him out. We really didn't need him, once Aragorn got a song of lore and the Steward of Gondor. Bilbo, schmilbo.
Day 10: I enjoyed the Leadership/Lore deck so much yesterday, but wanted to see if I could keep Bilbo alive, so I played it again, and won easily, but again, Bilbo died, about midway through. Hummerhorns again, I think. It didn't matter, though, thanks again to the Song of Lore and the Steward of Gondor, a great combo.
Day 11: I played Leadership/Lore a third time, and was determined to keep Bilbo alive this time. Somehow I managed. So, finally, I was satisfied with this deck, although I knew its threat management wasn't that great. The only way to reduce threat was via Gandalf, and because I was using lots of cards (for disposable allies), the relative frequence of Gandalf was pretty low. The only way to fix this would be to either play with a smaller deck or add some Spirit cards, which I could use if I put a Celebrian's Stone on Aragorn. I didn't feel comfortable mixing 3 sphere, however, and wanted to save the threat-reducing Spirit cards for the "B" deck, so I decided to stick with the existing deck.
Day 12?: I *think* I played Tactics/Spirit, but I do not remember….
…This is because now began a long series of interruptions. Family visiting, traveling, Christmas, and then getting ready to move to a new house. The cards got packed pretty early in the process (since I didn't anticipate playing much), and now we're on the road again, so I don't even have access to them.
I do, however, have LackeyCCG and OCTGN, and have installed the LotR LCG plugins for both. I've built a Leadership/Lore deck (core set only) and played through a game on each system. OCTGN feels smoother, but LackeyCCG lets me save. Testing these two systems took an additional 4 lunch breaks.
So I have spent 16 days with Lotr LCG in this second phase, and am still not done with Passage Through Mirkwood. I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel either, because I still need to decide what to do next:
Should I:
a) build a Tactics/Spirit deck on LackeyCCG and/or OCTGN with Core cards only
b) build a Tactics/Spirit deck on LackeyCCG and/or OCTGN with cards through Rhosgobel (so that it is better practice when I get access to real cards)
c) expand my LackeyCCG and/or OCTGN Leadership/Lore deck to include cards through Rhosgobel
d) take my existing LackeyCCG and/or OCTGN Leadership/Lore deck to the next quest (Journey Down the Anduin)
e) spend time learning or rebinding the LackeyCCG and/or OCTGN commands so that I can play more efficiently
… and once I get access to my cards again, I will need to decide whether to:
f) find a way to improve threat reduction in my Leadership/Lore deck
g) take Tactics/Spirit through Passage through Mirkwood
h) try playing "2 handed" (with both decks at once) - the primary motivation here would be to reduce the number of times I have to win a quest before feeling like I am ready to continue to the next one; the side effect is that this might make some quests easier, which means I can progress faster
i) reduce my decks to just the core set - I like the idea of using cards which are "contemporary" with each quest (such as Passage through Mirkwood); the downside is that since I am playing solo, I might be making things harder for myself.
j) create a 3rd and 4th deck using heroes and cards I didn't use in decks A and B - this would let me use *all* the cards; it seems a shame to have some cards going completely unused
k) watch some more video tutorials, to see what other people are using for decks and strategies - this might help me reach the "good enough" point faster, so that I can progress through the quests
l) post my issue on the forum
m) go play something else, where I don't have to think as much
As you can see, there are lots of options for what to do next, and since I am playing alone, I don't have anyone pushing me one way or the other; there is no external pressure to "get on with it". Also, since this is my second playthrough, and since I know there is a lot of work to get from here to Rhosgobel, there is more pressure to do things "right" on this early quest, so that I set a precedence that will carry me swiftly and enjoyably through the other quests.
Thus, the decision paralysis.
I'm sure some of you think this over-analysis and over-documenting is a silly waste of time, but others of you might feel (or have felt) the same way. It's from the latter bunch that I'm curious to hear your thoughts.