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just had a run in with the maternity ward bounty photographer
(801 Posts)And having previously defended them and loved my pictures of my eldest children todays 'rep' has made me agree they need to be removed from wards!
She arrived originally before breakfast turned on the lights and opened curtains waking me and the other Mum up, then continued to talk over the peadiatrician who was checking my dd over.
Eventually she sulked off but apparently came back when I was asleep (how dare I?) Last time she came back as I'd just settled dd and was eating lunch which had just arrived.
I said No photos at the minute thanks she got most insistant that its for security reasons?? (I'm going home today) and said she'd just lean round and take them, dd was asleep on my lap in a v pillow whilst I ate. I said again, not right now I'm eating she left brochures and went off muttering quite loudly.
I'm hormonal so ofc this has upset me, but not as much as the first time mum across they way! WHY are these people allowed to just walk around a maternity ward being so fucking rude!
I couldn't agree more. Had a run in with a Bounty woman after DS was born. DS and I were both exhausted, fast asleep and she shook me to wake me up, then got all huffy when I politely asked her to go away.
"You're not the only woman in the world with a new baby, you know." Or words to that effect.
Rude cow. I complained to the midwife but she just shrugged and looked at me like I was a bit strange.
I don't understand the 'for security reasons' part?
I really don't get why this is allowed.
I don't get it either. How they can lie like that and get away with it. It was only from reading posts on here that I knew it was a load of rubbish or I would've believed her.
Actually, I don't understand the whole thing, who are the bounty people and why are they in the hospital?
oh state they are so bloody rude and don't seem to take no for an answer! I was kept overnight after having dd, bounty lady waltzed in early in morning, told her we weren't interested, muttered something about photos for security reasons and we would need our pack, said she'd come back. I was sat trying to bf dd who just didn't want to latch and each time we seemed to get somewhere she would burst in the door wanting to take a photo, I got stressed out each time she came in which obv didn't help with the bf situation. Dp sent her on her way in the end.
Does anyone know if the hospital gain anything from this? Just curious as to why this shit is allowed!
By all means, offer to take pics by no means WAKE a sleeping Mum or disturb in general.
Very confused about this set up? .
Oh I HATE the Bounty bollocks. I was far too polite to the woman who came to see me and asked where DS was. Er, he's three months early so try intensive care!
I assume they pay for the privilege. I got v pissed off with them,v v persistent,I am a sucker for anything to do with ds but felt I really didn't want pictures of him on a fluffy bit of fabric that had been under a trillion other babies (v pfb!).
I did complain though when I was back in hospital a week after having him,he stayed at home with dh as I was v unwell. She breezed in 'where is your baby?' blah blah. I found it hideously insensitive. Ds was fine at home,what if he wasn't?
it is SHOCKING that these buisness reps are allowed on the ward at times of day when your own mother is not!
they need to be banned!
when I declined politely I was told that if she didn't tick me off it'ld look like I was trying to fiddle getting extra packs - I said I didn't want any packs! She tried to bull shit me that I wouldnt' get a child benefit form without one! (total bollocks) then took a photo anyway and said something like "well that's the best picture you'll get of one like that!" then went over to the woman opposite and started coooing about how beautiful THAT one was! and how SOME babies are such a joy to photograph
it is a terrible company, well known on boards for women that lost babies or had premies for their total lack of sensitivity (e.g. continuing to send child's birthday brochures to households where the baby died after being asked to remove the family from the mail list repeatedly! )
PLEASE complain formally to the hospital! It is totally wrong that a buisness can agressively target women on the post natal ward! you should be safe there!
I had heard about them; so disappointed there wasn't one when I had DS. I was itching for a run in with one!!!
Hospitals are paid by Bounty for allowing their data-mining to take place in postnatal wards
Ive had 3 kids and never been approached by the Bounty people once !! They were hovering about when dd2 and Ds1 was born as I heard them but they didnt approach me.
Maybe my babies were ....ugly
I didn't/don't understand the security reasons thing either....
I told them I wasn't interested and the woman twittered on and on about how I couldn't claim CB unless she took my details and gave me a Bounty pack. Pointed out that the forms are printable online and she got all humphy, even more so when the woman in the next bed also told her to go away
My own experience wasn't as severe but annoying. She came every day (I was there for 4 nights) but there was alot going on. She didn't seem to get that we were busy.
I felt "put upon" to say the least.
I never had the privilege of having one around when either DDs were born. Sounds interesting though!
"Does anyone know if the hospital gain anything from this? Just curious as to why this shit is allowed!"
they pay the hospital for every set of details which they then sell on
they have been known to TAKE women's addresses from the front of their notes where the woman has been too unwell or unwilling to give them herself
They also negotiate extra perks for their reps such as parking permits, so your nurse/doctor that is comming and going alone at all hours of day and night may be declined a parking permit, but your Bounty rep will have one
and if you refuse as you should to give your baby details they steal the details off the board,
they make their money selling your babies details to other companies, all you get is some token , a nappy, and bum cream, really worth selling your babies details for,
there is very little that I hate in life, I save the word for when I mean it, if the CEO of bounty and I got in a life only one of us is getting out alive,
I actually give myself a pat on the back occasionally because I some how have managed to control myself and not tracked the bastard down, he should be grateful I have other children, as prison on it own isn't enough of a deterrent.
because bounty sell dead baby details, no matter what you do if you are the parent of a dead baby you can do nothing to stop bounty repeatedly selling your dead baby details for years and years,
particularly annoying if when the bounty vultures came around you went out of your way to not allow them the details, and they took them anyway,
sorry to rant but I hate fucking bastard leech culture bounty bastards all of them from the women that stalk and steal from the wards, to the head of the company. turds the lot of them.
off to breath deeply now.
Bloody disgraceful! Petition anywhere??
They sound fecking awful.
I fucking hate them too, I really really hate them! I am worried that I will end up a red faced shaking shouting wreck if they come NEAR me this time!
I wrote it in my last birth plan that they weren't to come near me. That may sound extreme but as one pulled my curtain back as my dh was applying antiseptic stuff to my stitches and just stood there laughing rather than apologising, closing the curtain and walking away during my second birth I felt more than justified.
Oh god they sound awful, I was in hospital for 4 days when I had DS but didn't meet any. I'll be on the look out with this baby though when the time comes and will tell them to bugger off!
So what do they actually do? I've been given bounty packs while pregnant but that's it.
I saw the Bounty Lady approaching .....
Go away.
But if
Go away.
I really think
Go away.
There's no need to be so-
She then looked at the midwife sat with me for some back up, who very clearly told her,
Go away.
No thanks.
Both my babies were premies and the second time a lady came over and asked for my details, looked around for a baby and then said 'oh, I'll come back if you get your baby back!!' IF!
The said baby was in NICU on CPAP...with my first baby no-one came to see me, I think they told them to stay away as I was a mess. DD was 8 wks early and very poorly.
But I agree, they are a complete nuisance and the packs are crap. End of.
When I had ds2 (he was v ill and in intensive care) the bounty woman came round asking where my baby was.she came back every day (twice on one day) to see if had him with me, I was a wreck and terribly upset but she would fling my door open and say all cheerfully "baby back yet?!!" I just wanted her to go away.
We had an amusing run-in with one when DS was born.
We moved to the US 6 weeks after DS was born, so needed photos urgently for passport and visa applications (DS is a December babe, so there was very little time due to closures of the relevant ofices over Christmas). So I allowed her to take a photo, but asked for passport photos only. 'We don't do that as a package' etc etc ... so I asked her to ring her head office to get a price. Came out as cheaper than the photo booth (think they hadn't had that request very often so hadn't worked out the correct extortionate mark-up), so paid her in cash then and there.
Asked for my address - said 'well, you won't want that because we're moving out 3 weeks tomorrow to move abroad, that's why we wanted the passport pics'. NOT a happy lady.....
Catching this is what they actually do
at prime PND time they sell your details to home security companies who send you junk mail/calls about how your family are in danger if you don't care enough to fit their alarms
before each birthday they send junk mail about kids party stuff relevant to the child's age, even if that child died and you asked them to stop
they make a fortune out of your details
they imply that you NEED their pack for CB form (you don't)
they imply that the photos are needed for "security reasons" (they're not)
There are fuck all "freebies" in it anyway, its all advertising for top priced brands
The bounty woman who came round after dc1 was born wasnt too bad - I said no thanks as soon as she started on about photos and off she went without any argument.
Am absolutely shocked at other peoples experiences with them - I definitely agree tht they have no place on a post natal ward. However, living in an area where the PCT is bust, I can't imagine how the shortfall if they were booted out would be made up without further cuts to services. They should never have been allowed to get their foot in the door in the first place.
With dc2 I was only in hospital from 9-11pm. With ds2 had home birth, so thankfully missed the nonsense with two out of three births.
I just say "ive brought my own camera" and refuse to let them look at the baby they go away then.
I advise any expectant mothers who don't want photos taking to make sure they have a safety pin and some paper with them so they can pin a note to the curtains.
She did seem to be shocked that I just said no. Made me wonder afterwards whether everyone has the photos done.
oh and they do it at times when you have no "back up" - i.e. they come before visiting times so your family can't tell them to fuck off if they wont go with your 3rd "no thank you"
I reported one at my hospital to Bounty. Had a nightmare c-section with pfb dd, had a gases bottle still attached so was not in the mood.
Guy comes over and really pushes at me. I told him, politely then less so, to feck off.
His parting shot to me was it was "sad when a Mum doesn't love their kid enough to have a picture taken" (had decent camera to do it myself). Then to another Mum who said yes told her that "some people say no as their kids are ugly babies". Really loud, in my direction At which point he was lucky I was bed bound or I'd have spanked him one..
The reason I said no was because when my god daughter was born 3 months before, he'd got her name down wrong and spelt everything with the wrong spelling. It was printed on everything at the front with date of birth etc. So I didn't wish to spend god knows how much to get the same shoddy crap.
They are vultures dressed up as ladies, like the slitheen in Doctor Who.
I was trying to bf 1 day old DS when she whipped the curtain round. So rude, refuses to speak to them for subsequent births.
I HATE the way they promote branded baby items to lower income parents who don't realise supermarket brands are cheaper and completely fine.
Well I DID used to be regularly banned from their forums...
Thankfully I didn't have any problems with them. They tried to take photos but I said that my DH was a photographer and they buggered off. (Maybe I looked fierce after 48hrs labour?)
I 'know' a bounty lady in real life and yep she is just as you would expect a bounty lady to be, and I can imagine her being involved in any number of the scenarios described on this thread.
She also tittle tattles confidential information about who has had babies and what they've called them, and whether they had a c-section or instrumental delivery.
I was disgusted with the Bounty photographer who arrived to take my DDs picture. DD was screaming her head off at the time and the dirty old hag stuck her knuckle in dds mouth to shut her up.
The picture was terrible and we never bought it.
Reeeeeeally Glitterknickaz? Interesting... We may have something in common
This has pissed me off for years, the Bounty website boasts about having unrivalled access to new parents. I made a Freedom of Information request asking how much Bounty paid the hospital for allowing them access to mothers. Was told £5 if photos taken and £1 for every Bounty pack given out. Other areas may vary.
The midwives probably hate them too.
Do you all know that if medical photography is used you have to sign a consent form stating what the photo is for etc?
We have to get permission to photograph foot ulcers. It's an A4 size form. Verbal consent isnt enough.
I don't know anyone who has a good word for them, at best it's that they had an unoffensive one. I guess woman are so vunerable then and have so much else going on you don't get round to complaining. My DH had to tell one who came round 3 times to go away.
I hadn't thought about putting "make the Bounty rep leave me alone" on my birth plan this time round, but it's a good idea and I will be doing that!
I had a home birth with DS so the MW gave me the Bounty pack and I didn't need to give any details. I hadn't registered for any of the packs though.
I was induced with DD after she died, so didn't have any dealings with Bounty after that and hadn't registered for anything.
But, if anyone is in the sad situation of having registered for one of these lists, you can be taken off them by registering with a similar service to the telephone preference service:
I had no idea who they were when I was in hospital after DD was born. Feeling rough after an emergency c-section, and a womb infection, I let the Bounty photographer take a picture of DD. When it finally arrived a couple of weeks later it was the worst photo I'd ever seen, so we sent it back.
When DS was born I just said no thanks when approached. Still got all the bounty packs and stuff.
Actually, what would happen if we started a bit of a campaign, trying to get everyone to put "make the bounty rep leave me alone and do not allow them to access any information about me or my baby" on their birth plan?
I agree they should be banned from wards. Can you imagine the outcry if men on prostate surgery wards were invaded by the bounty man, trying to get hold of their personal details to sell on and opening curtains to get at them? Everyone has access to a camera these days. There is absolutely no benefit to women having them on hospital ground.
The only kind of bounty woman I want to see when I have just given birth is one carrying a massive sack of Bounty bars that she is desperate to get rid of and needs my help. I'd have sold my soul, let alone my address, to that woman.
I've just written it in big letters on the front of my community notes, but dunno if I'll be with it enough to write it on my hospital notes during labour! It'll be in my birth plan though.. and if I have time I'll get a laminated sign to put over my bed!
The bounty packs are terrible, small pot of sudocreme, one nappy and a tiny pack of wipes.
Completely agree the bounty packs are rubbish, although the Sudocrem did come in handy as an extra in the changing bag. Most of the leaflets ended up in the recycling box
I was in the hospital for nearly a week and never saw them. Luckily for them because I don't suffer that sort of thing gladly when I haven't had a CS and a baby in SCBU.
And the pack was crap.
God some of these stories are awful! Don't remember coming across one with DD1 & thankfully had DD2 at home.
Bounty got £60 off us when DS1 was born. I was so out of it I honestly would have signed away my soul
With DS2 I was much better and spent £15... Bounty lady was not happy.
I also had a ridiculous experience with the bounty woman when I had my ds. I'm hospital phobic anyway, and had been in for 5 days whilst they induced me. After finally having ds by emcs, I was in a side room of the post natal ward recovering from the c section and also a group b strep infection. My ds was in SCBU very poorly from the group b strep. I was very unhappy and distressed with the whole situation as you can imagine. The bloody bounty woman flung my door open and whisked my curtains aside and said "have you had your photos yet?". I just stared in horror at her. Whereupon she said "where is your baby anyway?!". I couldn't quite believe she'd come out with something so insensitive. So I told her - my baby is very poorly in SCBU and that is the most insensitive question you could possibly have asked me, please go away. She at least had the decency to look a bit bothered, and muttered sorry as she left.
I could get very angry about how they are allowed to prey on vulnerable women for the sake of money. I would happily pay the hospital a fiver to ensure they don't harass me!
sudocreme will send you a free 8 pack of those little pots if you ask them BTW
I never went on the post natal ward as I was discharged direct from the delivery suite (was only in hospital for 4.5 hours in total). Reading this makes me very relieved that was the case !! Like you need some stranger up in your face with a camera after you have gone through labour and may have some very unpleasant birth injuries. I can't believe that it's allowed really, for what is essentially commercial purposes.
Maybe MN could start a "no Bounty on PN wards campaign" ?
Guess I'm lucky as the bounty lady on the ward when I had ds was pleasant and called before opening the curtain etc, and if I said 'not now' she actually listened and went away.
Would be mortified if I had one half as offensive as some of the ones mentioned above but would definitely complain, even if just quick email to the hospital or Maternity ward manager.
Would also be fab if somehow we could get Bounty themselves to see this thread.....would be great if we could opt in to allow the bounty lady to approach us post natallly. Would make it easier. if our family has to be allowed to in to see us then why should should a stranger be allowed to waltz in?!
at some of your experiences.
I'm still angry about bounty almost 5 years after dd1 was born. Woman comesaround curtain with camera and tells me she "needs" a photo of dd. I assumed she worked for the hospital and needed it for dds file or something. She then presented me with a price list. I said I didn't want to pay for photos and she said I had to now because she'd already taken the photo.
I paid eventhough we really couldn't afford it.
Our NHS refuse to have anything to do with Bounty, and havent for about 15 years. We dont get bounty packs at all, from midwives or from the hospital, thank god!
the same thing happened to me the lady was very rude as i didn't want them taken because i could not afford to buy them ,she wanted to take them anyway and i couldn't understand why if i didn't want them - wheres the reason in that ?
she stormed off in a huff i mean what on earth was all that about ?
the same thing happened to me the lady was very rude as i didn't want them taken because i could not afford to buy them ,she wanted to take them anyway and i couldn't understand why if i didn't want them - wheres the reason in that ?
she stormed off in a huff i mean what on earth was all that about ?
see, no one has a really positive story, best others have is "they weren't that bad" - being polite to a new mum must be a minimum, their photos aren't cheap or good quality, the packs are pretty pointless and you get junk mail for months afterwards from them.
Definately 'no bounty vulture rep' all over my notes. and will be warned DH to tell them to bugger off we don't want to go on any mailing lists or have any crap photos thanks.
sorry posted twice
our community notes get given to us in a bounty folder, so from the start the Bounty brand is given credibility and is familiar, and pregnant ladies see all the other pregnant ladies at scans etc sitting their with the Bounty notes holder!
Anyone who is against Bounty should decant their notes into a regular pocket file immediately and not advertise Bounty and give the brand the familiarity that breeds trust
sitting THERE
I have to admit that I did quite well out of the bounty people though - for some reason they had some spare packs on delivery and the MW said "do you want a couple of spare packs" ? Which I gladly took as they all had a full size bottle of fabric conditioner in them. I then chucked all the advertising gubbins in a bin in the way out ! I felt I had got one over on them haha.
In fact there is a photo of me holding DD on our arrival home with the 3 bottles of Fabric-Conditioner-Sponsored-by-Bounty behind me on the kitchen worktop !
Holy fuck! I had never heard of this, having never given birth, but it sounds completely criminal!
I'm so grateful to mn for warning me about bounty. Thankfully I've only been approached by them once, when I was in the antenatal clinic very pg with dd. The woman handed me a pack and a form to fill in with all my details, then took the pack back out of my hand and said I could have it after I'd filled the form in and put it in the box on the desk. I wrote fuck off on the form and stuck it in the box, then the mw called me for my appointment
It is beyond awful that these vultures are allowed access to postnatal wards, especially outside of visiting hours has anyone found a petition anywhere?
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest, and agreeing with me!
I'm really sad that so many other women have tollerated this, thing is I'm a push over usually if she'd have come back later I'd have more than likely parted with the cash for some but she was just rude, and her whole manner was loud and dominating, told mum across the room from me, ALL mums join bounty, I've told her about mumsnet!
I'm going home now, well when dps moved the car to main entrance I am, I'm going to write a complaint once the fogs lifted, I'm only upset as I'm hormonal, I can't imagine how much worse she could make someone feel.
I have posted the following e-petition on the Downing Street website:
^Keep Bounty representatives out of Postnatal Wards
Department of Health
Bounty is a commercial company that survives by targetting new mothers to obtain details which are sold on to 3rd parties at great profit. Mothers routinely report unpleasant harassment from the Bounty reps who are given free access to postnatal wards; mothers who do not comply are insulted or even subjected to theft of their personal information from nursing stations. Women are pressured into purchasing expensive photographs, lied to that they will not be able to get child benefit without complying and photographs are necessary for hospital security. Mothers are disturbed while trying to feed their babies, sleep or consult with medical staff.
I would like the government to look at curbing the activities of this commercial organisation which has no place in a hospital. Cancer patients would not be subjected to such aggressive marketing when they were recovering from surgery, why should a post natal mother ?^
I only saw one briefly with DS1. I was expressing and she just chatted about what a PITA bf was when it didn't work properly. She never asked for photos with him or with DD 2yrs later. Another ugly family here . I did get my pack though.
Agree they shouldn't be allowed on the wards.
I am friends with my MP, he is quite involved with Health as he has been campaigning about the maternity services in our local Trust - I will ask him about maybe bringing this up as a debate.
Have confirmed my email address, when the petition is live (may take up to 7 days apparently) I will post a thread with the link on it
oh, my notes are decanted into a non-Bounty branded pack straight off. In fact this time round I just binned the pack from the midwife without even bothering to look what was in it.
I've posted about this before, but I strongly believe that methods routinely used by Bounty break various Trading Standard rules (about approaching people at vulnerable times, approaching people who are unable to leave freely, hard sell tactics, dishonest representation - by saying its for security reasons or you won't get benefits and I think there were a couple of others I can't remember). I doubt anyone has taken it to Trading Standards though, as the obvious place to complain would be to the hospital, who have a vested interest in not pursing complaints. I do think its an angle that someone needs to seriously look at.
Trouble is to take it to Trading Standards you have to have a 'live case' as such. You can't do it purely on historical anecdotes. You need a bunch of people to actively complain. Which obviously is not something that women who've just been in hospital and have a new born to worry about, have at the top of their to do lists. Hence why I don't think anyone's really done this before.
oh state sorry you had a Bounty rep run in, hope you can relax now you've sent her on her way. "for security reasons"????!!!!!! wtf!!
nigel I'd be interested in signing the petition, maybe put a link in here as well?
I never met a Bounty rep with DD but after these horror stories, he/she will be sent packing this time around.
Bounty are absolute assholes.
Any responsible data company or mailing house should be using both the MPS linked to earlier and the Bereavement Register to ensure that mail only goes to those that want it.
Seriously, if a Bounty lady had approached me and kept bothering me I would tell her to Fuck Off and if she came back I would report her.
interesting article from 2009
Think it's high time this issue got another airing - especially if the BMJ, NCT etc were behind it.
OhDear - I shall be signing that petition.
So this was brought up in 2009 and it's still going on? Did the Information Commission do anything at the time?
I don't usually sign petitions. This one I'll sign.
OhdearNigel you are a star I will definitely sign and share on facebook.
I forgot to say congratulations op! Does your new dd have a name yet?
What an arse, her not you. Did she expect you to pay for the security photos?
I must admit to being a bit shocked that the bounty lady came into the delivery suite (when all done a nd dusted) to take my details, give me a pack.
Oh god I'd forgotten about the bloody bounty woman! I will be firmly telling her to naff off this time!
When I first read about Bounty on MN (having been handed the first pack by my mw so thinking before that they were legit), I went to their website to remove my details. They had my previous rather than my current address - and I was never pg or had any dealings with maternity services when we lived there. So looks like people are selling them details as well as vice versa. I was all prepared for a run-in when I had DD, but was lucky and got one who was polite and took no for an answer - though she did try to spin me the line about needing the pack for the CB form.
I told mine to go away. Think DH was a bit shocked, until I explained afterwards. She seemed a bit stunned too - don't think many new mothers are quite so resistant. I only knew because of MN!
Thank you ohdearnigel ill keep an eye out for it.
She's called Lily cebeebies
I actually thought they'd removed the bounty lady from our hospital as I didn't see her sooner, and with ds and dd1 she appeared several times a day, dd was born wednesday and I was lulled into a false sense of security, I just couldn't believe the fact that she said, "oh ill just lean over and take a photo" I had to be really firm and it made me feel very vulnerable, I had wonderful mws and support otherwise and feel this has put a dampner on my experience as such. Really wish I had still got the pregnancy rage and had torn her a new one, loudly.
I had a home birth last time, never bothered getting the packs when pregnant or afterwards and find the whole idea of these reps repellent. How dare they?
By the way, our registrar filled in the CB form with us when we registered the birth. I think this is increasingly common. Really no need for these tacky packs.
I like to fill in the wrong details on the form
I used to be a photographer on the maternity ward, though for an independent company rather than Bounty. The company I worked for paid a great deal to the hospital for the privilege of having their photographer on the ward, as well as a donation for every photo sold.
That is why they are allowed to wander around at will and harrass you
Wow! I'm really shocked to hear that. The lady who came round our ward was fairly nice (although she made me think that what I was doing in giving my details was necessary procedure and I had no opt-out). There was no talk of photos. I do get a crap-load of emails from them though.
Emma's Diary - now I know they sold my details despite the fact that I ticked all the boxes to say not to.
it's disgusting. So if I paid enough could I wander around any old ward doing what I like ? Although the Saville/Stoke Mandeville seems to indicate "yes you can".
Flash enough cash and you get what you want. Whether you're a supermarket knocking down a primary school, a commercial organisation harassing post natal mothers or a predatory paedophile
I'm glad the hospital I was at doesn't have Bounty reps although after a 4 day labour I could have had a real go at one if they did.
Think I might make a request from my local NHS trust under freedom of information how much money they derive from Bounty
Hated the bounty woman. I'm a very non confrontational person but this time around I'm determined not to give her any details. Will definitely be signing that petition too.
How are they paid? Presumably on some kind of commission?
I agree about Bounty wholeheartedly. The woman interrupted me every day, even though I had DS's photo taken.
I had 14 days from the date of the photo to return it, otherwise I'd be charged £49.99 for a photo that looked nothing like him (useless for security, pah!)
It took about 10 days for them to arrive, so I was cutting it fine to return them, especially as paternity leave for DH was ending and I couldn't drive after a C Section. Coincidence much?! I bet they delay it on purpose to make it hard to return them.
And Emma's Diary fuck me right off with their spammy emails telling me to get DS a Junior ISA. Babies don't usually pay tax, so what use is a fucking ISA?! Fuck off Emma!
here is the bounty employee code of conduct. It's rather different from the experiences reported on this thread, although I suppose "bully new mums, lie to them and call their babies ugly" might not be as well received by hospitals...
It is interesting to me that they post this on their website - not many employers do- and makes me wonder how many complaints they get.
Bounty are a bunch of cunts. I'll be signing the petition.
Not to concern anyone, but after the above experience I had, I made a point of writing on my notes and birth plan "No Bounty photos please".
Made not a sod of difference.
Can totally sympathise with you exBrightonBelle- when I had ds 16 months after dd at another hospital, he was a 28 weeker. I had a serious infection, so had the gasses bottle from my section and an IV of antibiotics. Was very ill, and so worried about ds.
Was placed on the maternity ward with the new Mums- which was awful enough- as their side wards were booked. Bounty Bitch came, I had my curtain shut. She breezes round the other 3 beds, lots of "Oh I've done you dearies" to the ladies. I thought I was safe as obviously, the notes and no baby with me as he was in scbu.
She swishes back the curtain, tells me to sit up and stop slouching, "oh don't you look glum, have you got the depression?"
I could hardly speak as I felt like utter shit. She then spots the lack of baby and asks, jolly as you like "oh did it die? Is that why you are moping in here then, you should get out on the ward".
Disgraceful. I burst into tears and muttered, no. So she cuts me off and says "ah, baby taken away from you, huh? Did you chose that or did the SS?"
At this point, lady in bed next to me who had chatted to me, came back from the loo and tore strips off her and the MWs on the ward for allowing her to harass me and be so rude.
I am still angry about that now. What a bitch- she then, on hearing ds was in scbu asked if I wanted some pics "just in case". At that point, I threw a biography I had next to my bed at her and she fucked off.
Awful grasping people who should be banned.
Ah, if I can get the pack without giving details (if I don't have a home birth this time), then I might take it. I think I might print off that code of conduct and stick it in my bag so I can brandish it at any pushy Bounty lady that comes my way this time.
They must receive a lot of complaints to have to post that as a back-covering exercise.
I wonder, are the Bounty women employees or are they "agents" that work for themselves in the manner of Body Shop at Home ?
Fuck me, Fellowship Good on you for throwing something at the twat. If I ever have another baby I'll be sure to take some bricks into hospital with me for this purpose.
Eau I would, that'd just about sodding work.
In my defence, I'm not usually a book or other object chucker or violent person but I could barely speak due to the medication I was on and the utter dread I felt for him.
Although if I could have got up I think I'd have punched her.
Fellowship I am literally speechless. How on earth could anyone think that was acceptable behaviour ? Where on earth do they find these people ? Or do they indoctrinate them in training ?
I told the bounty woman - no thanks and was all set for a fight, but she toddled off quietly.
Only for her to wait until I had gone to the shower and come back and tell my unsuspecting mother that she needed my information and I would get lots of goodies too.
My mum holds up the bounty bags full of smiles as I returned. I was livid and now get lots of junk mail from all sorts.
They shouldn't have been allowed to take down my details from anyone but ME!
When I had my first child a decade ago I was very frightened when this un-uniformed woman just breezed into my cubicle and wheeled my baby off with no explanation (I was stuck in bed on a catheter.) they sent me a bill a week later for these unbelievably shite photos. I sent them a very cathartic letter.
When I had my second I was ready for them. I refused the photo politely, then got the line about "You can't claim child benefit without one" to which I said calmly "That's not true, is it?" which sparked some interest from other mums on the ward. Ooh did she flounce
Did I somehow just manage to miss Bounty people with both DC? I vaguely remember someone coming round but I just said "no thank you" and they just went.
When I had DD, the bounty stuff was handed over by the midwives, I don't remember giving any details (I may have done) but they didn't take photos. What they did was Bounty sold details to local photographers in that region.
Thing was, the photographer who sent his bumph to us after I got home turned out to be SIL's ex husband........who wouldn't have recognised the my surname as I have never changed my own name, so nothing to connect me with SIL. Didn't use that photographer!
This just gets worse. Will defo sign your petition ohdearnigel.
Fellow fuck me, that is unbelievable!
I must have got lucky, I was in hospital for six days and didn't see a Bounty woman once. Maybe the sobbing from my cubicle put them off...
I will also be signing.
Congratulations state
Fellow DD1 just asked me what was wrong as I gasped out loud when reading your post. Absolutely fucking outrageous.
I can't remember the Bounty women at all both times I gave birth, but I think I got the packs so perhaps the midwife just handed them on to me. Obviously I was very, very lucky.
I think Nigel touched on it earlier, but the whole Savile/Stoke Mandeville/other hospitals thing came into my mind when first reading this thread. Not that the Bounty reps are vile, repellent paedophiles, obviously, but who the fuck are these people to be wandering around freely on post natal wards, preying on vulnerable women? I think it is outrageous that this is allowed to happen. I also think that hospitals might start to listen now about patients not wanting anyone but health care professionals around them when they are in hospital.
I too will sign a petition about this and also give support to any campaign to stop this practice.
Fucking awful, and i rarely swear.
I was SO sick after one child, no visitors at all but this fucking women in my room.
Honestly they need to stop it. Had she appeared at my next childs birth i would have been having serious words.
I think thus thread should be shown to someone high up at Bounty. Are they on FB or Twitter?
I can't believe they poke their head round when the curtain is tucking closed.
Luckily I was too ill when I had DD2 for them to visit.
And also to someone high up in the NHS. Who is it who sanctions these people?
Hi, just saw this thread via twitter. The Guardian had a very interesting article about the Bounty people last year
Fellowship I am speechless at your experience!!!!!
Well, ifi have any more I shall say, "no thank you, and please don't ask the nurses or help yourself to my confidential information. My husband is a corporate litigation lawyer and we will take action of you do. Goodbye!" (he's not BTW!)
Oh I gave Bounty my details on the ward 8 years ago- no problem
And I'm sure they've been sending them to Narnia ever since.
Unbelievable stories, had home births so no idea this was happening in hospitals. Will be signing petition
IamMummy PMSL!
I got Bountied and told 'well you can't get CB without signing up'.
I waved the forms DH had printed from the internet and her face was a picture.
found bounty on twitter.... have tweeted them! (@BountyUK)
I got a bounty pack when pg with my first son, he was stillborn at 24 weeks and the contents sat in my drawer for ages upsetting me terribly till i got the strength to throw them out. when i had my second son i was in hospital for 5 days following as he has jaundice and every day, twice a day i was pestered by these people, i kept saying 'no thank you' and getting looked at as if i had 2 heads because i didnt want one then i finally lost it on day 5 when one woman came in and pressed and pressed as to why i didnt want one 'everyone gets one, its part of having a new baby' i had to tell her that i didnt want one because my last baby was stillborn and the packs remind me of that, she just looked shocked and wandered off while i was left sobbing for an hour. i am still very resentful that she pushed me so hard i felt i had to say what i did to get her to go away when its not something i am comfortable telling anyone and everyone and how dare she come up and upset me like that. I am now pg again and i will be telling the first bounty person i see to make a note that i do not want to be pestered and if they do i will be making a formal complaint, i despise bounty
The bounty woman tried the whole CB spiel with me a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunately for her I'd had a very good birth and was able to wave her away with a cheerful "No thanks --off you fuck--". Completely different to first birth, when I had no strength to tell them to leave me alone.
Bloody parasites
oh and i got the CB form shite too, told her i didnt care about that but when we registered the birth the registrar gave us one, have since found out you can download it on line too
It's bounty club on FB btw
The Bounty Birch I had was a right weirdo. She was very batty. I was at the time. I'm more now.
I have no issue with these people being a part of hospitals, as the NHS needs all the money it can get. BUT that said, it would be simple as a bit of training, how to treat people with respect. Not to disturb anyone who is going through what I did. And simply to have an "opt in" box on your maternity notes.
If they are happy to pressure sale, and lie about child benefit, they should be sacked. And I'm horrified at the idea someone can get a Bounty badge and enter a ward with children on it, let alone being allowed to walk off with the baby.
I am at some of these stories un-bloody-believable!!!
I work for the nhs and they are borderline paranoid about confidentiality so how they get away with this I have no idea <shakes head in disbelief>
A good friend of mind had her baby at The Portland. Bounty are even in there, but they quietly open the door and shove the pack across the floor and scurry away. You don't even see their faces. I'll bet that's on instruction.
I've emailed the NCT people on facebook asking if they would share our thread on their page
and tweeted them
hy do they need to go bed to bed?
can't they set up a stall outside in the broom cupboard ?
MNHQ - can we get this on the MN Towers FB page ? I'm feeling quite "crusadey" this evening lol
Mousey - that's exactly what I think. I've got no issues with the bounty packs but to use what is essentially pressure selling to people at their most vulnerable is disgusted and, to use one of my Dad's catchphrases, "shouldn't be allowed"
I'm sure you can just post it on the MNFB site?
I would guess many, if not all, Bounty reps are on a pay by numbers signed up sort of contract. Would explain why they push so much and won't leave people alone. And all the CB spiel too.
Despite what's on the Bounty website, I would bet they don't care how they get names, as long as they do, as each name is more money for them by sellling it on.
yes, i wondered if it was similar to BSAH where you have to do so many parties per month or you are kicked out. They probably have to gather x number of names/photos
I didn't have anything like this with mine and I'm shocked at these stories
There's not anything worth having in the packs anyway.
Disgusting accounts on here, Bounty should be utterly ashamed.
Does anyone have a link to the epetition please? I've searched on the no10 epetition site under Dept of Health and by a 'Bounty' word search and it's not coming up. Thank you.
It can take up to seven days, then someone will post a link, i believe...
A link would be great, id sign it.
Some awful stories here, mine (exhausted after long induced premature labour and repeatedly woken up) just pales in comparison.
I had a pushy Bounty Bitch when I had DS but we're at a different hospital this time round, and I've just checked and there isn't a Bounty Bitch there. I take it I just won't be able to claim child benefit then
State, I'm so sorry you got accosted, are you going to be in for much longer?
Am horrified by the stories on this thread. I will happily sign the petition. I wonder have Watchdog ever covered this story? The Bounty lady at my hospital was v nice, I declined the photo as DH is a photographer (true!) and there was no problem and no harassment. That said, I completely disagree with them being on the PN wards, disgraceful way for hospitals to make money.
Once the epetition is up I will update this thread and also put it on the MN fb page
I didn't see her with DS2,but with DS1, DH just waggled his vair fancy DSLR at her, and said, 'no thanks, I'm a photographer.'
12 years ago when I had DD, I was v young and didn't know what was going on after botched epidural lumber puncture etc, couldn't even sit up. Let the Bounty woman do the photos and signed things, didn't understand what was going on ended getting some framed photos through the post that were less than good and I couldn't afford to pay for them as I was an unemployed single Mum= and ended up getting debt collectors round for the money.
The Bounty Rep was fine when I was in having DS but the fact that she was a pleasant, not pushy lady is besides the point. I had no idea who she was, who she worked for, what the whole Bounty situation was and they end up getting your address, email address, all sorts of stuff off you before you really know what you're doing, giving you a load of forms that you can download and print off online yourself for child benefit, trying to flog photos to you, bombarding you with stupid marketing emails afterwards until you twig on to unsubscribe and I just don't understand why they are allowed onto a hospital ward to hustle vulnerable, tired mums into signing up to stuff. Seems totally immoral and, as I said, while my own experience was more or less ok, I would def sign a petition to have the practice stopped. It's not cool, people. Not cool.
ban bounty i say
Thanks for the warning x
I had no idea about Bounty. Photos were taken of DD and she kept pushing me to buy the 'special Peter's which would have been ££££ I didn't realise that you don't have to give your address. I got the photos but ordered them online months later as silly as it sounds, I couldn't bear the thought of photos of newly born DD being deleted. Saved £50 compared to what she was pushing me into spending. Next time I definitely won't be having any photos etc. She pushed a teenage mum into buying a ££££ set when the mum said she wouldn't be able to afford it until payday bounty lady was convincing her to buy them.
I thought you had to let them photograph your baby. I would never let them near me again. Photos were shit in regards to the price. Better photo printing at Boots instant kiosks.
I don't have children (and am not likely to) but I'll happily sign the petition and pass it on. Women shouldn't be hassled when they've just given birth - and even more when they've lost babies.
Discussions of the day people! We had the photos done and we did buy them because it was actually quite good. However we received the pack through with the ds name spelt wrong and the wrong date of birth, second pack came, still wrong, eventually the third back was right. But we've been left with more newborn photos of ds than we know what to do with! I was handing them put to everyone who even glanced at ds!
The lady did try the "you need the pack to claim cb" but I had the savvy to put her right on that little inaccuracy.
I would happily pay my NHS trust £5 to keep the vultures away from me if I have another dc.
I'm home now MrsR just grandparents to fend off now
I can't believe how horrendous some of these reps have been, its bloody awful, like I said we had the pics for ds and dd1 as we actually liked them and the rep was nice, but then she would have been we handed over our details, at the very least they need to only be allowed at set times and if a curtains shut they shouldn't bloody barge in, I always sit with my curtains open but I'd shut mine today to avoid her! Wish my dp had been there, he was fetchind dd1 from nursery, he'd have put her firmly in her place, maybe him not being there is why I was the one she persisted with...
These stories are terrible! I totally agree they should be banned.
I was in no fit state to make any kind of decision about money when I was in hospital after DS was born. I was only saved because DP very firmly told the rep to go away and leave me alone. What if he hadn't been there when she came round?
Taking advantage of women at their most vulnerable is disgusting, and should really be stopped.
What an upsetting thread. I had no idea. (Clearly the owner of an ugly baby.)
Thanks for that link Mrs Reiver, my hospital don't seem to allow the photographers jn which is reassuring. I hate this sort of stuff but can imagine being unable to resist when weepy and hormonal.
It's also particularly bad because with the speedy discharge after birth that they have these days, it's more likely to be people with problems - either mother or baby - who are staying in for longer periods of time and so more likely to be hassled (and possibly repeatedly) when least able to handle it.
State, congratulations on the birth of your little one
I have read this thread with increasing horror.
These are salesmen/women wandering around maternity units with no supervision approaching women at the most vulnerable time of their lives.
I will gladly sign the petition when it goes live.
I have sent a link of this thread to bbc radio 4 woman's hour as I think it would make an interesting story for them and raise more awareness of the petition.
I never met the Bounty lady when I had dd, I came back from the toilet and a pack had appeared on my bed. I had no idea what it was as I'd not heard anything about them so I was quite pleased really. It was nearly 17 years ago and the packs must have been better then as I remember there was quite a lot in there. I can't remember all of it but there was sudocreme, a packet of washing powder and a big bottle of Johnsons baby shampoo. DD didn't have much hair so I was still using it when she was 3 and at playgroup .
A lady did come round asking about photos but in my addled state I didn't connect the two. She wasn't pushy though.
The bounty lady only came to me once, but as DD had a whacking bruise on her head due to headbutting my pelvis for 40mins. I kindly told her my professional photographer husband would take photos when the bruise has gone! Slight exaggeration as DH isn't quite a professional but had a camera far in excess of the Bounty lady's
She didn't come back to me but she did come back to others on the ward. I did give my details for the pack (didn't know much about Bounty then) and had a few phone calls after DD was born but I was feeling much better by then so sorted them out.
I don't think they should barge in and open curtains or go into side wards. They should be polite and sensitive, and you shouldn't be compelled into signing anything on the ward. Fine to take photos but they should simply send you a proof in the post (or print one out there and then) and send you home with an order form. If their photos are so brilliant and the packages such good value, then they will surely sell themselves!!
marking my place before I go to bed so I can sign the petition too.
Horrible stories on here
Definitely on for the petition. It's shocking that they can pester new mums and get you to sign up for paying for photos when you're either full of pregnancy hormones or in some cases, straight up, ill. Someone said it up thread, what with lots of people going home after just a few hours, it's often unwell mums and babies that are the ones getting hassled as they're the ones on the wards.
How very odd, after reading this thread I was half-assedly looking for jobs when I came across one for a Bounty Newborn Photographer. Incredibly the job description bandies about words like 'conscientious', 'kind', 'caring' and my personal favourite after reading this thread - 'RESPECTFUL'.
I had no experience of this, I was given a Bounty pack but I was so out of it after DD's birth it could have been handed to me by a two-headed Jabbawocky and I wouldn't have noticed.
Am so shocked and sad to hear some of the stories above. I am being brave and admit I work for bounty. I love my job so much, yes I give out bags and take photos but always tell the Mums it is optional and I never try to sell them anything but give them a code so they can look at the photos when they get home. The majority of mums are pleased to see a friendly face that isn't rushed off her feet and I have made so many friends as I was lucky enough to be there in those first few precious hours. Sometime I just get the mums a cup of tea or sit with the baby whilst they had a shower, and no, we are not paid for this before anyone asks. I am very surprised and saddened to hear of your experiences with Bounty. I would be surprised if those people still work for the company. It is true that they raise a lot of money for the NHS and has help set up numerous charities such as Tommys. It has been hard reading tonight some of the comments so felt I just had to say please don't tarnish us all with the same brush.
the trouble is, dontbeatmeup, that there are obviously lots of bounty ladies that aren't very nice and friendly and are only interested in pushing things.
Would you mind answering whether you have sign-up targets or are paid "piecemeal" ?
I had no idea Bounty were so intrusive. I have 5 children - my first dd (many years ago now!) was photographed by a Bounty photographer, mum told me it was a good idea! DD1 looked a bit like a monkey in them, but mum got them as a gift and we now use them to make fun of DD1.
My next 2 children were born at weekends and so no Bounty people around. I didn't even think about it. Then when I had DD2, 2 years ago, it was a weekday! When he was born, he was a bit squashed and bruised and DH and I both agreed he was a bit "funny looking" but still very cute and of course, perfect to us. Then the Bounty woman appeared, gave us her spiel, and got the camera out. I blurted out, "Oh, I don't want any photos of him, he doesn't look very nice does he? We might get some photos done later, if he improves."
She was speechless, dropped some leaflets on the bed and left, giving me disgusted glances as she walked out.
In hindsight, I did sound like the worst mother in the world but I just meant that he wasn't at his best and I would rather have photos of him in a week or so when his birth injuries had settled!
Now hearing all these stories I'm glad I stopped her in her tracks! How dare these people try to manipulate new parents and force them to spend money like this. Most brand new babies are a bit battered and squashed and there are so many amazing local photographers who take newborn pics in Anne Geddes style and I would certainly rather hand my money over to them (if I wanted newborn photos!) and have some arty pics when the baby was at his/her best and settled at home.
Imagine if reps from baby formula companies or baby food companies were to come onto the wards and try to sign new mums up to their brand? That's just as unethical!!
Frankly I don't think it matters if you are the 'nice' bounty lady or the 'nasty' one. Its intrusive and you shouldn't be there, since you are trying to sell ON A HOSPITAL WARD TO POTENTIALLY VULNERABLE PEOPLE UNINVITED. I'd have a hard time being civil to anyone I found out who did that for a living as its exploitative regardless of how you behave.
Lots of people don't want door to door salesmen and won't open the door to them and yet you can't escape them on a hospital ward. Its sick, sick, sick.
That's an interesting thought, oldwoman. If, let's say, SMA offered the NHS £20 per woman that they were able to give a (subtly underming) "breastfeeding lesson" to in the postnatal ward would they take it ?
Isn't there something in law about crafting contracts with someone who is vulnerable?
Lots of people don't want door to door salesmen and won't open the door to them and yet you can't escape them on a hospital ward
Good point Red
Greatcongas, its against trading standards.
You aren't allowed to upsell a coffin as a funeral director for example.
Ohdear, no we are not targeted but we are reminded that the most complaints we get from customer services are from Mums that have not been given their bags, and often come back in the hospital to get them so we have to be seen available every morning for Mums.
Why can't you sit in a room next to the ward, rather than going round bed to bed then?
Its harassment.
20 years ago the packs were good. Full sized products and several to a bag. They also just gave you the packs and each had a form in that you could fill out and send back but you didn't have to, to get it.
But now they hound you for details, its not right. Loads of people think they are hospital employees, and they do not make it clear they arnt
I thought to redtoothbrush
And I'm glad you knew what I meant as it autocorrected creating to crafting (still made sense actually)
So are the harassing bounty people breaking the law then
My experience was nowhere near as bad as some others on this thread, but I did feel under pressure. My Bounty lady turned up just after my DH had been sent home for lunch so I was by myself, I'd had DS literally 3 hours previously in about 2 hours, so I was almost in shock I think. She came into the ward, told me she was here to take the photos, took them, then said I had to order them there and then. Then she asked for payment, I was a bit out of it so lied and said I hadn't got my purse with me. That sounds really pathetic, and normally I'd refuse to order anything until I'd looked through the options, spoken to DH etc, but I was absolutely knackered and a bit out of it, and just couldn't handle it. I felt really vulnerable that she'd turned up when she did, it was almost as though she'd waited til DH had gin
my issue is not with giving out bags - i loved my free stuff; my issue is with the selling of very expensive photo packages to people who are recovering from a massive and sometimes very unpleasant event, who are chock full of hormones, tired and generally in no mood to argue. After I gave birth I would have agreed to have my arm cut off I was so high on my hormone cocktail. And the obtaining of personal detail so that more aggressively targeted marketing can be sent out.
As the caring bounty lady you watch newborn babies whilst their mothers have showers...
And you think thats ok?
At this point words have failed me so I'm going to bed.
Crap, fat fingers! She literally turned up within seconds of DH leaving the ward, like she'd been waiting.
...ooohhh - disagree
Would have loved some photos of me and my little one in the early hours of his life - even though I was knackered, stitched up and drugged up to the hilt...
I have some photos three days later - but it is not quite the same .....
dontbeatmeup if the new mums own mothers were allowed on the ward when buisness reps like you are THEY could sit with the babies and get their daughters cups of tea
it is a vile profession, it is targetted selling in a place where you should be safe from it, at a time when there is no visiting so that the women SHOULD have a bit more privacy than they have during visiting hours, you are basically a member of the public, like a sky tv package sales man! and I don't want them or you trawling into the ward while I'm in that vulnerable state, whether you're polite or not and whether you love seeing all the ickle babies or not!
Red tooth, because a lot of new mums are immobile. I always check with the ward clerk if there are any poorly mums or babies and do not visit them for reasons listed above by my hopefully ex collegues. I have been on mumsnet for a long time (yes name chAnged but I'm sure you don't blame me) but it is the same as boots, pampers etc just get the vouchers And updates you feel benefit you then unsubscribe.
plus, a lot of those mums who are happy to see you, do not know what you are! and are too out of it to really probe you about it! they just see a name badge and a logo they associate with their antenatal care and think it should be fine or you wouldn't be there, its only later that they hate the fact they were sucked in!
It was only thanks to reading about the reps on here that I knew to be wary of them. I was traumatised after a difficult birth, and more intent on DS and getting the hell out of the hospital (I desperately wanted to go home) so I just kept shutting my room door in the reps face after repeating a bit manically "Not interested!"
x posted
it is NOTHING! NOTHING like the boots parenting club or tescos parenting club etc... because you sign up to them when you are in a normal mental state!
I can't find the pdf guide to The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 as it appears that its offline as the OFT update their website. It has some cracking examples of what you can and can not do.
Its uses examples such as a salesman standing between a customer and a doorway so they can not leave freely. So what happens when a potential customer is in a hospital bed and can't leave freely then?
I do however have the list, minus examples, of what are classed as aggressive practises:
Aggressive commercial practices
7.(1) A commercial practice is aggressive if, in its factual context, taking account of all of its features and circumstances
(a)it significantly impairs or is likely significantly to impair the average consumers freedom of choice or conduct in relation to the product concerned through the use of harassment, coercion or undue influence; and
(b)it thereby causes or is likely to cause him to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise.
(2) In determining whether a commercial practice uses harassment, coercion or undue influence account shall be taken of
(a)its timing, location, nature or persistence;
(b)the use of threatening or abusive language or behaviour;
(c)the exploitation by the trader of any specific misfortune or circumstance of such gravity as to impair the consumers judgment, of which the trader is aware, to influence the consumers decision with regard to the product;
(d)any onerous or disproportionate non-contractual barrier imposed by the trader where a consumer wishes to exercise rights under the contract, including rights to terminate a contract or to switch to another product or another trader; and
(e)any threat to take any action which cannot legally be taken.
(3) In this regulation
(a)coercion includes the use of physical force; and
(b)undue influence means exploiting a position of power in relation to the consumer so as to apply pressure, even without using or threatening to use physical force, in a way which significantly limits the consumers ability to make an informed decision.
There are also clear breeches if Bounty are using misleading information (such as saying you can't get the CB elsewhere) under clauses about misleading people.
So like I say, I don't give a shit if you are a nice or nasty Bounty sales rep. If you are approaching someone in a hospital bed you are breaking trading standards and its about bloody time someone started questioning whats going on, and started actually using these regulations as its clear as day there is a problem here.
you could probably easily get annulled if you got married on the post natal ward when you were still dazed and confused and full of drugs, noone would think it was a good time to sign a contract!
but try and get out of Bounty's junk mail after your baby has died - not so easy!
Marking place, so I can sign petition
Nicely done redtoothbrush
Louis, yes when I've finished my shift twice I have returned to two mums who I got on really well with who were dying for a shower/bath and told them if their husband wasn't there by then I would watch the baby for them. Blimey they were a lot more appreciative of it than you.
She's been very brave admitting she works for them, she does not own the company, has said she does not condone what the shit ones do to pressure new mums.
So do you really need to rip into her about watching a newborn in a ward surrounded by other mums and mw's( that would have been left in its fish bowl and occasionally glanced at by a mw) whilst mum had a shower?
Obviously as long as mum was not pressured to buy the photo because of this,what's the big deal?
Taking these sort of threads down those types of routes sadly means they tend to get ignored by people who could make changes.
Bottom line is several reps pressure loads and misrepresent themselves and they shouldn't be there to do this in the first place.
No real need now either due to camera phones ect.
Red tooth, because a lot of new mums are immobile.
You approach them when they are immobile as they are unable to make a free choice whether to have the photos. If you were just there and didn't approach beds you'd get less sales. Think about it for two seconds about why that constitutes an aggressive sales technic...
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008
Absolutely agreed this is pressured selling and against the law. It needs a test case bringing, but who has the wherewithal to bring a case when they've got a newborn? That is why this company gets away with it.
My conversation with the Bounty lady went like this:
Bounty: I'm here to take the security photo of your baby (getting camera ready)
Me: No, thanks. The hospital doesn't need a security photo, she has a wrist band and an ankle band on.
Bounty: Don't you want a first photo of your baby?
Me: Don't worry, we've already taken about 50
Bounty: Right , well if you can just fill in this form I can give you your pack
Me: No thanks, I'd rather not give out my personal details, we get enough junk mail as it is
Bounty: But if you don't fill in the form you won't get a pack?
Me: Thats fine
Bounty: It has lots of freebies in it, nappy cream and wipes
Me: No, its fine, thanks anyway
Bounty: But you won't get your pack and it has your CB form in it
Me: Thats ok, we can get the forms from the Post Office
Bounty: But you are meant to get them from the pack
Me: Well, I'll get one at the PO
Bounty: Well, if you think you will get the chance to go to the PO with a newborn...
Me: I'm sure we'll manage, DH works next door to it
Bounty: Can I tell you about the lovely photo packages, they are a lovely souvenir or gift for a new grandparent
Me: ....... <loses patience>
Thankfully with my second I was home within a few hours so was long gone before the Bounty woman came around the next morning.
"but who has the wherewithal to bring a case when they've got a newborn? That is why this company gets away with it"
yup same reason that companies that sell ruinous financial products to confused elderly people get away with it!
The Bounty reps could peddle their wares at antenatal classes instead.. or at BF groups, but they don't because they don't sell to people who are 'with it', they sell it to people who are shell shocked and often drugged and who just want to get into some sort of normality at home with their new child, so don't complain straight away.. then feel it's too late
Thanks sock I really am horrified by some of these stories and I wish I could take all of you I to work with me to see how I see it through my eyes. I am not a sales person I am a distributor I give out bags, I offer Mums photos and if they want to have them done, great. I will do the best photos I can, part of the money goes to the maternity ward and the Mums can buy them from £15 which I know is not a rip off (as long as its a good photo) as I have kids of my own and have spent a fortune on pictures. I do completely understand everyone's view though on the intrusion etc.
and what photography credentials do you have?
you're not a sales person? so your pay isn't at all affected if noone buys the photos or if they all tick the "do not contact" box and just take the bags? really?
I think you're missing the point, it doesn't matter how nicely you do it, the fact that you are there at all is wrong!
I wonder if some hospitals are better at controlling them than others. My hospital is fantastic, was very sensitive to me though miscarriage and poorly babies - and the bounty pack was given to me by midwife and bounty lady I think asked politely if we would like photos and then left when we declined - I don't really remember that well tbh, but I would have remembered if she had been rude or insensitive. Some of these stories are awful!
It has been hard reading tonight some of the comments so felt I just had to say please don't tarnish us all with the same brush
Oh Ok
you work for a company that makes money out of dead babies. they pay you with blood money,
but it must be all the other bounty women who collect baby names and details and when those babies die, Bounty refuse to remove those details from those list, but that's not a problem for bounty, just the parents and siblings of those babies.
Bounty are not interested in doing anything to stop selling dead babies details.
Imagine if a mum came on this forum and asked, AIBU to make money out of my dead baby?
she would be tracked down and shredded,
sorry you are in denial, but you work for one very sick company.
Reading what you've just posted redtoothbrudh - it sounds like Bounty are seriously contravening Trading Standards.
I think that xmas has been brave to admit she works for them, when clearly so many women on here hate the Bounty Lady. I personally think it is disgusting that brand new mums (possibly still in a state of shock/high on drugs/unable to move) are essentially hounded in some cases for a few poxy photos.
What should happen is that when you arrive at the hospital (maybe in your notes?) you should be asked if you are interested in Bounty. If you are not, she is not allowed to talk to you at all.
To be honest, it makes me think anyone could get a job for Bounty, and then they'd be allowed to wander round the wards collecting addresses etc. Are Bounty Ladies CRB checked etc?
Plus, I think they are a rip off https://www.bountyweb.co.uk/portrait/orders/products.php
so your mother is in hospital with a raging UTI which makes her a bit confused, a sales rep comes onto her ward OUTSIDE of visiting hours, and "distributes" some freebees/advertising shite to her in exchange for her details to be sold on to agressive marketting companies who will hound her despite repeated requests to stop
that's okay?, so long as they did it nicely? they're just nice people doing a job they love huh?
and the photos ARE a total rip off considering the sales reps they recruit are not photographers!
To be honest, how many babies look gorgeous as soon as they come out? Most are squished, bruised, veiny, and generally odd looking for a few days.
There is nothing I treasure more than the photo of me, OH and baby, taken by my midwife, baby was only 15 minutes old. I'd take that over any posed photo that cost £15 any day.
Quote unquote, in the awful event of an infant death the Midwife In charge has a form to complete which we act on immediately to remove the mothers details if she is listed with bounty. Am so sorry you went through this I can't imagine how awful it was, unfortunately I have to make a few of these phone calls as soon as we get notification from the midwife.
hmm, not a sales person?.. its comission only.. Sales experience desired... nothing about PHOTOGRAPHY experience though
Of course they are. And its made worse by the fact that hospitals are enabling this, and therefore people are under the mistaken idea that its somehow therefore acceptable, when its very clearly not.
There is no way you can possibly have sales people (and yes you are a sales person if you are merely handing out bags too, as you sign people up and are selling their details on to a third party in return - they are NOT free packs). on a hospital ward visiting people in bed and NOT be controvening Trading Standards, as it breaks 2a and c straight away:
(2) In determining whether a commercial practice uses harassment, coercion or undue influence account shall be taken of
(a)its timing, location, nature or persistence;
(c)the exploitation by the trader of any specific misfortune or circumstance of such gravity as to impair the consumers judgment, of which the trader is aware, to influence the consumers decision with regard to the product;
More clauses from the PDF:
Harassment, coercion and undue influence
8.3Harassment and coercion are not expressly defined in the CPRs but include both physical and non-physical, (including psychological) pressure.
Significant Impairment or Limitation
8.5The CPRs refer to practices that significantly impair and those that significantly limit decisions (the latter is in the definition of undue influence).These are likely to have a very similar meaning and both will depend on the context.
8.6Significant impairment might occur when, for example, a trader stays in a consumers home for so long that they feel compelled to sign a contract for a product.
Freedom of choice or conduct
8.7The concept of freedom of choice is not limited solely to decisions about whether to purchase a product or not. It covers a wide range of choices that are likely to impact on transactional decisions.
Really, how can they NOT be breaking a whole pile of things VISITING PEOPLE IN HOSPITAL BEDS? Its completely and utterly beyond me.
You're a sales rep.
If you walk up to people, unsolicited, offering to take picture in exchange for money, you're cold selling. The packs are used as a prop to get details off people. Those details are then sold for profit.
In a best case scenario you're approaching vulnerable people, often drugged and in pain, with a couple of sample size products that entitle them to a lifetime of junk mail. And you sell them overpriced pictures taken by someone with no photography credentials. You walk around the ward as though you have a right to be there - as though you're part of the hospital staff - when you're a salesperson.
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Dontbeatmeupitsmas Have you ever been CRB checked?
Since digital cameras and phones with cameras became commonplace there is just no need at all for the Bounty lady. The packs can be left in a bookcase somewhere around the ward, or if the MWs are willing they could give them out (doubt this though) with a post box for any completed forms that a new mum wishes to submit to Bounty. These completed forms could be collected by a Bounty person from the hospital main desk once a week, dropping new packs off at the same time. There is utterly no need for the Bounty salesperson to be on the ward at all.
Agree Bounty reps can be a problem.
DS was 6 weeks early, and taken straight to SCBU because he needed help breathing and had a few other issues.
The midwives kindly put me in a private room on the post-natal ward, which was good of them, because seeing all the other new mums with healthy babies right next to them made me feel a bit emotional.
The Bounty lady threw the door to my room open, looked at the empty cot in the corner, and demanded to know what I'd done with my baby
Although she did just skulk off when I told her he was in SCBU, so better than some of the Bounty ladies other people on this thread came across.
Dontbeatmeupitsxmas - I did wonder at the time if the Bounty ladies are supposed to check in with the midwives to see if there's new mums that they shouldn't hassle - i.e. mums with babies in SCBU/NICU or with stillborn babies - can you answer that question?
(Incidentally, the neo-natal nurses working in SCBU took a few photos of DS and came and gave them to me for free before he was 12 hours old. Maybe not professional standard photos, but pretty good quality considering that he was in an incubater at the time.)
I'm not going to knock someone for having a job when they are so rare if they act with in the rules and are honest.
Nor am I going to knock them for working where there employer tells them to.
But sure as the sun rises i will knock the hospitals who let them do it and the directors of the company who profit massively from it.
They have about as much a place in hospitals post natal wards as a Weatherspoons would.
BANNED PRACTICEs (sChEDULE 1)
(25) Conducting personal visits to the consumers home ignoring the consumers request to leave or not to return except in circumstances and to the extent justified13 to enforce a contractual obligation.
A door to door salesman visits a consumer to sell her some cleaning products. She tells him she is not interested and asks him to leave. He is determined to try and get her to change her mind and continues his sales pitch on her doorstep.This would breach the CPRs.
Giving false information to, or deceiving, customers
7.3A misleading action occurs when a practice misleads through the information it contains, or its deceptive presentation, and causes or is likely to cause the average consumer to take a different decision.
8.4Undue influence is defined in regulation 7(3)(b) of the CPRs as:
exploiting a position of power in relation to the consumer so as to apply pressure, even without using or threatening to use physical force, in a way which significantly limits the consumers ability to make an informed decision.
Note: simply swanning around a ward without properly informing someone you are a salesperson rather than a health professional put you in a position of power.
Note: approaching an immobile person, probably also puts you in a position of power too.
sorry, that might be what is meant to happen, but it's not what does happen,
after 12 years do not think we tried everything? as have countless other parents.
it comes up at baby loss support a lot, breaks my heart as parents still go through the extra unnecessary crap we did,
Bounty are total shits.
leaving the thread now, it's making me feel stabby, and bounty have had far to much of my energy over the years. fucking vile bastards,
I have to make a few of these phone calls oh hard, start a support group,
You do know they do fuck all with that information at the other end, they have already sold on the details, but you tell yourself what ever you want, just don't start to try and justify anything that bounty does, you are defending a truly sick organisation.
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I did actually mean be honest to the mother of the baby at points of contact.
Yes am crb checked and have been on numerous photography courses and registered with the MPA. Narked I am not a stupid woman. I would hope a HV would be able to notify the appropriate people and support the Mum, dad and siblings. This has been a shock to the system tonight, all my friends and most Mums at the hospital tell me what a lovely job I have.
a lot of those mums don't know that you are the reason for those horrible aggressive home security scare mongering calls that they get during the peak of their PND, they think it's coincidence!
I've just googled & they do ask for CRB checks on some of the vacancies advertised.
I bet none of the senior people at Bounty would have the guts to come on here for a webchat and defend themselves.
What do you think, Dontbeatmeup?
I really don't think any of those mums or your friends would really think you had a "lovely job" if they knew what you were collecting women's info for!
Why would a HV think to contact Bounty if a baby died?
Bounty aren't anyone official they are just a company hoping to make a quick buck, it isn't down to a HV to contact them when something happens. How ridiculous.
Should the HVs contact the Early Learning Centre to remove toddlers from their birthday club if they die too?
I very much doubt the community MWs contact Bounty much either, if you hadn't noticed the NHS inc MWs are rather stretched.
did you even know yourself?
did you know that if you contact them to tell them your baby/child has died, they DO NOT pass that on to the companies that they have already sold your info to?
did you know that they sell to companies such as the home security ones that use scare mongering at a time when they know women with PND are likely to be most vulnerable?
did you know that about your lovely job? do you still think it's lovely?
Dontbeatmeupitsxmas - are the Bounty ladies supposed to check in with the midwives to see if there's women that they shouldn't hassle - i.e. women with babies in SCBU/NICU or with stillborn babies - can you answer that question?
Because that sort of thing just causes unneccessary additional distress to vunerable women.
You know what, I think some of you should back right off. She didnt have to come on here at all, or answer any questions. If you don't like what Bounty does then get hold of their management or better yet, the heads of maternity services who enter into these contracts.
To rip into a single individual for the job they is disgraceful.
Yes purpletinsel every morning I check with the midwife in charge for babies in scbu, mums who are poorly or csections who should rest and see them in a few days. Anyway, I have the mother in law coming for Christmas so I really need some sleep, as a longtime mumsnetter myself, apart from the few stupid personal Insults, it was genuinely thought provoking tonight. Will make sure I look after all the new mums as usual but with extra clarity r.e info gathered.
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Does no-one else think we should try to get someone on for a webchat?
'look after all the new mums'?!
There's some real confusion going on here re: the distinction between hospital staff & sales reps.
No wonder it's sometimes hard for those 'new mums' to tell the difference. Buggers got me twice (out of three) with their poxy sudocreme samples & I'm normally as hardbitten & sceptical as they come wrt cold sellers.
Thanks sacro, it's only a part time job and there's not many of them around at the moment.
Eh? Some people here have had very unpleasant, unacceptable experiences.
If dontbeatmeup doesn't like it, she can hide the thread. She hasn't been asked to post - she has chosen chosen to join in a thread full of very angry women.
Her choice. People are not going to go easy on Bounty because someone has admitted to working for them. That's not the point.
This job should not exist. There is not going to be a middle ground here.
If someone started a thread saying 'I'm in £50k of debt because of door-to-door loan salesmen', and someone came on saying 'Actually I'm a door-to-door loan salesman', it wouldn't change the fact that it's an unacceptable job to do.
Dontbeatmeup's job is not going anywhere. She is anonymous. She makes money from exploiting vulnerable women, whose details are then sold on.
If she wants to defend herself about that - good for her.
But don't ask people to go easy on her.
To rip into a single individual for the job they is disgraceful.
Why if it effectively breaking the law...? Especially if they are naively unaware of why and are still defending their job after being told why its a problem and why its distressing.
I'd love to know whether Dontbeatmeupitsxmas would change the way she works after reading this thread and stop going on the ward and harassing woman in a vulnerable position. I sincerely doubt it, as I still get the impression that she thinks its ok to go onto the ward.
Given a lot of women don't even know about the Bounty lady before going on a ward, then they can't tell the midwife to tell the bounty lady to fuck off in advance. At best from what Dontbeatmeupitsxmas says, she gets them in the end when the midwife sees fit. Not when the woman decides to make a free decision to approach the Bounty Lady. Its the wrong way round and thats the entire problem here.
Do you think salespeople have any place on a maternity ward? It's that simple really. They are salespeople, who take details of mothers and sell them on for profit. They're not some benevolent organisation that exist to provide free sudocreme for all. They pay hospitals kick backs from their sales for the right to get their hands on new mothers when they are exhausted post labour.
If you want to spend money on pictures of your baby there are dozens of companies that will happily take your money off you. Only one has bought the right to wander around the wards outside of visiting times, often indistinguishable from hospital staff.
Tell me dontbeatmeup, if you are not targeted, how exactly are you paid by Bounty? As all of the job ads I have seen (and there are many) say the OTE is made up of performance related pay and commission. If you are coming on here to defend the job you do, then at least give us the courtesy of being honest.
I cannot quite get my head around the fact that after DD2 was born my 75 year old MIL was forced to stand outside the ward while DH & DD1 visited me as she wasn't immediate family, and yet these commission earning sales reps are allowed to wander the wards at will, opening closed doors and pulling back closed curtains on new mothers. And then pressure them to spend money on unasked for photographs and sign away their personal data.
It. Is. Fucking. Outrageous.
Something has to be done about this. I see the NCT have already highlighted it. I think it's time for MN to join forces and get this vile practice stopped.
Sorry dontbeatmeup, I guess it will mean you'll be out of a job soon. I hope you manage to find a position with a more ethical organisation.
As people have said earlier, imagine if salespeople were allowed to wander through other hospital departments like this. If someone pushed back the curtain in A&E and asked where you had your accident whilst offering you a drink and a sandwich. And handed you a form to fill out. I'm sure ambulance chasing personal injury firms would be willing to pay for the privilege.
Definitely shouldn't be allowed.
Rindercella there was a thread on this subject earlier in the year. MNHQ were asked about a campaign on it. They said they would look into it as it was clearly a massive problem that was causing a lot of distress, but clearly its not gone any further.
I guess one of the problems with that is that Bounty itself its a direct competitor to MN with its parenting forums and that maybe caused them to have a conflict of interests.
Would be interesting to know exactly why MNHQ never took the ball and ran with it as a campaign though.
Look after? Really? Do you provide medication? Clean sheets? Perform necessary medical checks? Offer BF support or help to the bathroom? Or do you collect personal data to be sold on to private companies and encourage someone to spend money on photos?
btw... 'Look after' someone and then selling to them in this context would also constitute an abuse of a position of power... perhaps by making someone feel obliged to buy off you.
Aggressive Sales.
looking after*
It's the underhand way it's done. It's reasonable to assume that someone approaching you with forms to fill in and a child benefit form to give you, who is wandering around during staff only time, is hospital staff. And your boundaries are down as well, because when you've had half a dozen people looking up your vagina, being asked your address hardly seems intrusive.
Red, thank you. I hadn't seen the thread from earlier in the year. It had crossed my mind that MN & Bounty are in competition. Thankfully though MNHQ hasn't yet recruited a load of commission based sales reps to hound vulnerable mothers in the first few hours/days postpartum in their hospital beds on a supposedly secure maternity ward.
Sales people have no place in hospital wards but why rip in to a employee at the very bottom and demand they change things they are in no position to do.
Her employer sends her there, her employer arranged the deal with the hospital and the hospital accept money from her employer for her being there.
She didnt lie when she said she's not a sales person, I don't know even one photographer who would actively describe themselves as anything other than a photographer. And not many people who collect names ect and give out sample packs would describe themselves as sales people either.
Unless you think she should quit her job instantly and be unemployed what else do you think she has the power to change or do?
Not steal details when the mother refuses to provide them,
Not pressure with insults or refusals to leave if service declined,
Not say she has to take the photo for anything other than a keep sake and be open about it being optional.
Don't use the child benefit lie.
Dont approach mothers with ill babies unless mw says its ok.
Dont refuse to hear the word no.
She's already said she personally does none of these things
Take out your anger on the people who can change it,the ones who don't risk getting the sack from a low paid job by refusing to go to work so will still be able to eat the next day.
I have just remembered about the Bounty book club too. Fair enough, it's not reps in a maternity ward. But I remember a rep from there hounded me by phone when DD1 was young. In the end I had to threaten going to trading standards as with every request to remove me from their database was just met with further calls. I recall arguing with him that I did not want to join the club (thanks to a heads' up on here) and he was ever so surprised as it was "free". Yeah, course it was.
Actually getting angry reading through these horrifying stories. My SIL has just paid out £140 on Bounty photo's. I'd heard of them with ttc but reading this is crazy! If one of them flung my curtain open I'd scream at her to get the fuck out and I mean scream! No matter how out of it I am. You can't take photo's of your own children at school plays but you can have randoms with a camera prowling the labour wards. I'm outraged.
DOn'r just complain to the hospital start calling the police.
The first time they are doing their job, although in a crappy way, at this point get their name and phone number, and tell them if they come back again it is harassement and you will call the police.
You probably would describe yourself as a sales rep if you worked for Venture. And I put Bounty even lower down the food chain than them.
All the job ads I have seen state that it's a commission & performance related pay 'salary'. Therefore it absolutely IS defined as a sales job. Wrt to their pho graphs skills... Experience is preferred but not essential.
Was that the book thing that was like a catalogue, with 'helpful' advice in?
I remember them as being basically loaded with ad's for very expensive baby equipment most of it not needed and most of the advice pages were actually sponsored ad's as well.
If so dreadful things useless to read unless your a first time parent who believes you need to spend £150 on a wipe warmer or some other bit of useless tat and all prams cost over a grand, and they don't even make very good fire lighters.
I'm guessing venture is a bit like double take?
If so the camera operators there do call themselves photographers and they are also performance and commission based pay.
I think it would be most cost effective for Bounty if whilst exploiting vulnerable post natal women for the details of their newborns that the sales reps popped upstairs to the geriatric ward and gathered data on those who were about to snuff it. I'm sure there's some extra cash to be made there. And we all know Bounty are all about the cash!
Frankly I'm outraged that these sleazy sales people are permitted to stalk maternity wards bullying women in order to meet their sales targets. Taxpayers fund the NHS, hands up who has agreed to fund the bullying and intimidation of new mothers.
I guess I just like to call a spade a spade Sock. You can dress up a job title any way you want. I am sure the Bounty rep here could say she was an Executive Photographic Memory Consultant, but she'd still be a sales rep, taking unasked for photos and capturing personal data which is then sold on to external companies. From vulnerable women who have just given birth.
If you google Bounty sales reps, there are loads of links to newspaper articles & forum debates about exactly this, some dating back several years.
Incidentally I'm not saying she should be there and I'm not saying she's not a sales person.
I think no one should be able to go round the wards doing this.
I'm just saying that its not unusual for someone who receives money because they take photos to call themselves a photographer, so she is not lying by doing so.
I agree with you that the company is scum there practices are horrible. But all the people that work there will not operate in such a foul way, some of them may not even know what the personal details are for.
I think its a practice that should be banned.
But I just happen to also think that its not really ok to go hell for leather and give verbal pastings to someone who as far as we are aware has never done any of the things people are talking about or has no power to change how the company does things.
It's like Chinese whispers this Sock
What I specifically pulled don't up on was her assertion that she is not targeted, not that she wasn't a sales rep.
Hmm, beacuse it's more hurtful for a sales rep to be given a pasting than it is for a new mother to be bullied by a sales rep desperate for another sale.
If you choose to work for such a company then you have to accept that their reputation will reflect on you as an employee.
My bounty lady was lovely. She just came by, gave me a pack and cooed over my DS. Didn't tell me to fill anything out, told me to take the free samples and bin the rest if I wanted. I was in for 8 days, she brought me a few packs round over the week. They do the bounty photography away from the post natal wards though, and you make the decision yourself if you want to contact them to get pictures done. No pushy sales people roaming the wards. Just one nice lady every few days handing out packs.
I was very lucky I think - Bounty lady just gave me the pack, didn't hassle me for details. I got a few wipes and some Sudocrem but I haven't been hounded with junk mail or phonecalls.There was a photographer who wanted to take photos, but thinking back I can't remember if they were from Bounty or some other company. In any case, I declined and whilst she seemed a little surprised, she didn't make a fuss.
But, having said all that, I had no idea how evil Bounty were, and if I had known I think I would have told them to shove their bag - it was crap anyway.
I will definitely be signing the petition when its available, the way some people here have been treated is outrageous.
Another one who was told I wouldn't be able to claim CB unless I gave my details for the pack. Luckily that was 2 days after birth when ds was out of SCBU, I was sentient, and bored as hell, so told her that wasn't true and pull the other one.
She said she'd "check with her supervisor", and stepped outside the room for a minute. Forgetting there was a window in the door. She then came back in with the form.
My birth plan with dd basically said "want to avoid pn ward, please tell Bounty to get stuffed so I don't have to". I was on the ward overnight, woman turns up, DH says your photos are crap, just give us the CB form. She laughed and did and buggered off.
My first antenatal appt the MW gave me the pack saying don't get too excited, the only useful bit is the plastic envelope to keep your notes clean. Which was great as I tipped coffers over it a few times. Tried turning it inside out for dd but didn't work.
The contents of the packs were even more crap this year than 2008 - down from about £5 of stuff to a single teabag!
WTR to the bounty lady who says that she is nice to all the mums - I'm afraid I think this can be a form of insidious blackmail as well. When I was on then ward, my DS was in NICjust acing just had surgery twice. I hadn't seen him since birth four days previously (when i had seen him for all of about ten seconds) as I was too ill to leave bed. The midwives on the ward really didn't seem to care that I had had a baby, or that I was so comprehensively apart from him. When the bounty lady came in and was nice and interested and wanted to ask about the baby who was apparently nonexistent to everyone else, I would have sold her my soul, let alone a few personal details. It wasn't until much later that I realised exactly what she had been there for and I think I was incapable of making an informed choice at that point.
Thankfully I had read the thread re bounty earlier this year, and was able to see her coming. She came round at 8am, and I'd only been on the ward 4 hours after a forceps delivery and third degree tear repair so was not in the mood to be bothered, so was quite abrupt. I did enjoy hearing everyone else's confidential information as she went round the beds!
One more thing
They are not allowed on private wards.
So hospitals must know they are disruptive.
I've posted this before under other names but here goes...
My dd1 died less than an hour after birth in 2005. I was moved to the postnatal ward despite my delivery mw doing her level best to keep me down there but they needed the beds. I had a manual removal of placenta and had a catheter in place. I was in a side room where the mw in charge insisted the door had to stay open so I'd spent the night listening to babies crying when my own had died. 9am rolls round, in bounces the Bounty woman, no knocks or anything and she congratulated me. I had to tell her my baby had died. She didn't apologise, she barely even looked me in the face and backed out of the room. I was alone and totally, completely distraught by the experience. I will never forget it, it was completely heartless. A wonderful bereavement midwife helped me to raise the issue and I got an apology from the hospital but not Bounty.
When my ds1 was born a year later, she went in for the hard sell, including claiming the photos were for security reasons (ie if my baby went missing from the ward they'd have a photo to release to the press... great thing to tell a brand new mother???) but I refused the photos. They were horrendous, ditto with dd2 and ds2. I had dd3 at home so the mw brought the packs round.
I've used the Bounty website (in desperation, for support after dd1's death, in my darkest hour in my defence but I made some good friends there in the end) and they just don't give a shit about anything except clicks. I've been banned countless times for ridiculous reasons (using the word dildo for example. Someone else was banned for saying tits) and the final straw was them allowing a long-term member to create new ID's and troll the buggery out of the site. Over and over. Whilst banning people who protested against it.
They are an awful company. They just want ££££££££ - they sell details quarterly, six-monthly or annually depending on how regularly the companies buying want to target people. Early Learning Centre used to buy quarterly, not sure if they still do as I no longer work for them but if I had known what I know now back then I would have been a flea in the Managing Director's ear - any company with any sense should stay far, far away from them.
Some truly awful stories here.
I was warned off them by my first midwife! First time round I gave them an address I was moving from shortly. Second time a fake address and (whilst playing on my iPhone) told her I didn't check emails and never used my phone. Said I did not wish to be contacted. When she pressed more I explained I was going to cloth bum, Breastfeed and do blw so all their tat was useless to me. That shut her up.
Dontbeatmeupitschristmas You've spent a lot on photos of your dc? Why? If you are being paid to take photos of other people's dcs, whether you pressure them or not, surely you must be great at it yourself or a professional? Why have other professionals take pictures for you and be charged lots if Bounty are so cheap?
After pfb dd was born, we waited about a month and happened to be in our town centre, walking past Woolies. For £5 we had a large picture taken of dd in dp's hands. Its beautiful that photo. The lady who took it was kind, considerate and asked what we wanted.
Yes, she took lots of pictures and we were invited to come back and have a look and then we had the option of buying others, but as good as they all were, that picture is my favourite of all dd's baby pics. No pressure on us to buy the rest, just smiles and off we went.
Unlike Bounty, who feel they can lie and scam people who are vulnerable, reduce them to tears and who, hand over fist take shite pictures and then, on the odd time they take a half decent picture get the babies names etc wrong.
Threw Emma's diary in the bin as blatant advertising and no use whatsoever.
The Mw told me in the hospital the bounty last would be coming round but I was under no obligation to her. Wish they had told her that. She was there outside visiting hours, harassing and totally thick skinned. When I said she couldn't have my details and I didn't want a bag she said she would just get them off the Mw as I HAD to hand then over it was part of the deal.
She wouldn't leave me alone even when I was crying she still said heres the form, it won't take you a minute. I chucked it in the bin and she got it out and held it for me. I pushed her hand away- Told her to go away in hacking sobs - dh appeared as he works very strange hours and they said he could come if he was very quiet outside visiting.
He crept up behind her and was very menacing in telling her to leave me alone. He did moan at the Mw too, but they were uninterested in the extra stress they cause. Funny, when the Mw are banging on about pnd and being as relaxed as possible.
I'm appalled by this. Surely the issue is why hospital management think it's ok to let non nhs staff into maternity wards, and that these non nhs staff can approach women with no supervision, at any time, regardless of their medical state. Pulling curtains aside! There's a basic security and privacy issue.
How dare hospitals agree to this completely unacceptable practice for payment! How can it be legal? Where's the respect for patient dignity and confidentiality? I get angry about car parking but this is a whole other league!
Why doesn't any of this get reported to the Information Commissioner? It may breach the Data Protection Act, misleading people about what the data is for.
I had a Tempest photographer on my ward. Chose her timing well and no hard sell etc.. If Bounty had come my way I'd have told 'em to do one! When I got the first pack in pregnancy my MW was insistent that my notes went in it. Er no, I said, I don't advertise for free.
I plain file for my handhelds.
Refuse all 'freebies' from the off!
Tempest aren't much better ime and don't get me started on pixifoto in mothercare. Granted they aren't hounding you on the wards post partum, but they lay it on thick "don't y love your baby enough to buy the £200 photo in an acrylic block we have already made up for you to take today??" "Everyone else buys them" etc etc! Truth is these companies have based their business model on tugging on the heart strings of new parents. Nearly every company y will deal with will sell on your details now.
I'm not trying to excuse bounty in anyway, what they do is unacceptable at best and immoral. If bounty get kicked off the wards, and they should IMHO, they will find another way of targeting us. Pcts need to stand up to them and say no. But what does that mean for the money they give and what it pays for? Maternity services are over stretched now as it is. its possibly become a necessity for thenm to give bounty access.
Perhaps there is a middle ground? They aren't given free reign to stalk the wards, but you are made aware of the service in a room down the hall. In no uncertain terms should you be approached. It is all on your own terms?
Having read similar threads before, with dc2 I declined the photo and was expecting pressure but didn't get any - I didn't decline the pack though (I quite like junk) so that might have provoked a reaction. I consciously spent the equivalent of the bounty photos on a new digital camera with which I've taken a thousand photos, rather than one awful one.
Just emailed Bounty to complain about the remarks about Child Benefit forms and the utterly wrong behaviour of the photographers. I included a link to this thread. Will come back with the reply (if there is one). The photographers will in all likelihood not be employees but franchisees so I made sure that I covered that in the complaint. The company may well say that a franchise arrangement means they have no control over the photographers - in that case they clearly are not capable of finding and signing up people with the right temperaments. How one woman can behave in this way to another who is exhausted and vulnerable I really cannot understand.
I find this just so awful. Again like some others, I was very lucky to have a straightforward birth with DC2 so went straight home and never saw a bounty rep. DC1 was born before the photo thing started. I do remember believing I HAD to give them my details though.
I really think we should harness the collective voice we have here to put a stop to this.
Do the Bounty people only take your details if you have pictures taken or do they take them if they just give you a pack too?
It's clear that Bounty don't really care about their reputation- once they have your details then that's all they need and they have no further contact with you- but the companies that buy your details and that advertise with Bounty might be more concerned. How about letting them know what we think? 'Yes, I do need an alarm system but I'm not buying one from you because you got my details from Bounty' or 'Yes, I do need to buy nursery furniture/nappies/whatever but I'm buying from another company that doesn't advertise with Bounty.'
Our local NHS hospital has a box on the counter for the forms to be put in and the midwives hand out the bags. I have not known of a photographer from a outside company be on the wards taking photos with out being requested by the parents. The have a sort of office type room with an phone that patients can call. If I'm remembering correctly I'm pretty sure it used to be the patients smoking room/ cupboard years ago when you could smoke in hospital.
But as far as I am aware they do not advertise that they are in essence a data sale company, even if done tactfully with no pressure ect they should be open and honest about that aspect of it so people can make a informed choice.
But I still don't think its ok to rip in to someone because of there job if they are at the bottom. It weakens the very valid complaint makes it lose power and makes the person doing it appear irrational.
We wouldn't accept it towards council admin staff, police officers, hospital staff or cleaners or bin men or anyone else we would even be a bit at people who do it even if the staff member has personally pissed us off. So no you don't have to expect to experience verbal abuse because your employers are con merchants.
sockreturning pixie:
"So do you really need to rip into her about watching a newborn in a ward... "Obviously as long as mum was not pressured to buy the photo because of this,what's the big deal?"
Actually I did not 'rip into' anyone.
I think you should re-read my post.
I expressed my shock that it would seem acceptable to anyone that the boundaries of being a sales rep around vulnerable women would be blurred in this way.
In my opinion, I don't think that the photographers should be allowed on the ward at all...but if they are I think it is much better if they at least stay photographers.
Someone walking in saying 'would you like to buy my lovely photos' is a LOT clearer than someone helping out vulnerable women whose family and friends aren't around to help them which makes it easy to misunderstand what they are actually doing on the ward.
To my mind it is this kind of behaviour that makes it extremely difficult to refuse consent and, whether unintentional or not, is emotionally manipulative. Even if not deliberate, THIS IS a subtle way of pressuring someone into buying a photo, so it is big deal.
I'm worried enough about giving birth and now I also have to worry about having my personal details stolen when I don't consent to give them? Thanks Bounty!
I will definitely be signing the petition, I think it is outrageous that so many people have been treated so appallingly.
Only had Bounty photos taken once, with dd2. I'd paid for a private room. She did knock, took some photos, which were really nice. I bought a few. Liked my bounty pack which had lots of good stuff in. Can't remember getting any unwanted phone calls or junk mail afterwards. Bounty photo of dd2, who is now almost 10, is one of my favourite photos of her. But judging by this thread, mine might be the only positive experience.
So why on earth did you not specify that you felt it was a high pressure sale technique.
Rather than a eye brow raising inappropriate baby sitter issue.
I wonder how much the company strategy has changed in recent years. A bit like some charities - I have had so many cold calls from them over the last year or so. GOSH, Save the Children, RSPCA, saying, "but children are dying...don't you want to help them?". This is after I have explained I already have my chosen charities.
Bounty's job spec states its aim: to become the largest club for new parents in the country. It would seem they will now employ all tactics to ensure that happens. Mercenary is how I now consider them to be.
Sock, I have a huge issue with women not being allowed to see their partners or own mothers, but a fucking Bounty rep is allowed to be on the ward and 'babysit' a newborn while its mother has a shower.
I havnt run away (yet ), tbh if I had witnessed any of the experiences that I have been mentioned on here I would be as upset and angry as you felt, and still do. They are horrendous, I cannot and will not defend my enployers on whether they should be in the wards. However, I was given strict guidleines on how/when to approach a Mum, to never ever mention security photos or you cannot receive CB form without the information being taken. It sadly seems that some employees do not value their job as much as I do.
I will however defend myself. I have always loved photography and babies so this is my dream job, I consider myself a photographer first and foremost and a distributor secondly. As mentioned previously I very rarely even sell in the hospital as I give the mums a secure pin number to look at the photos once they get home. If they decide to buy them that means I have taken some lovely images and they are happy. If they dont, I dont even hear about it. As far as data capture is concerned I always ask if they are happy to be contacted by 3rd parties, if they say no I simply tick a box.
I would just like to clarify "looking after" sorry, probably not the best terminology. After I have seen the Mums, regardless if they have given me details had photos taken or if family members are there. I ask if there is anything I could do for them before I leave. This has involved, filling up jugs of water, getting tea, milk for babies, fresh sheets for cots, towels, borrowing my mobile phone, getting a parking permit for Dad, getting sweets from vending machine for big brother, even putting up christmas lights. So Louis I hope you can see that I find your above post hurtful there is no ulteria motive or financial gain in doing this.
Bounty take no notice of the no 3rd party box. I am very careful to always tick these type of boxes. I have received mail from other companies and when I asked them where they got my details from they said Bounty.
I think the practice of selling details should be made illegal.
I have a huge issue with them being there full stop regardless of what they are doing.
But if you are employed to be there your employer sends you, the hospital welcome you because they are paid to and you are expected to be on the ward. Then your choice is be on the ward or get sacked/quit.
We have no idea if she did pressure the mum after she watched the baby perhaps she didnt.
Dontbeatmeupitsxmas - In order to get the Bounty pack do Mum's have to hand over their name and details?
Don'tbeatmeup, I don't know where the fuck you get the idea that you're looking after women. You are a sales rep; nothing more, and the way your company preys on us is cruel.
And the photos are shit.
" So why on earth did you not specify that you felt it was a high pressure sale technique.
Rather than a eye brow raising inappropriate baby sitter issue. " ??
Well, I didn't specify it was shock as a sales tactic as it didn't occur to me anyone would interpret it in the way that you chose to, that is your issue, not mine.
My baby info card, that went in DDs clear plastic cot, was sponsored by Tempest. Never saw them though. There was just a phone number on it.
Is there a petition? Can someone post me the link? I had no idea about any of this having had a hb with an im. It's utterly disgraceful that any form of commercial advertising or data collection happens in maternity wards
Jesus Christ, back the fuck off! She's doing a job, which some people appreciate and people are within their rights to say 'No'.
One. Simple. Word.
I bought Bounty photos and know others who bought them and didn't have a nasty, awful, hideous experience.. and were actually disappointed that they'd missed the Bounty photographer when they were in hospital!
Nappy addict, no they don't a few Mums don't want to but most do as they like the weekly updates by e mail on development. Those who leave at night time are just handed a bag by the midwives.
Commander, actually my photos are lovely. Seriously? After you had your baby wasn't there anything that you wanted done but it was too trivial to ask the nurse for? The nurses and patients are always happy which is all that matters to me.
high pressure sales techniques? Someone with a camera walking around a ward, asking if you want a photo? Don't make me laugh.
Its is high pressure given that someone in hospital is unable to walk away from a sales person like they would be in the street.
Any situation which puts someone in a position where they are unable to do that is highly questionable. They are therefore more likely to make decisions that they would not otherwise make purely because of the circumstances which are beyond their control.
Stick the bounty lady somewhere where she can be approached by women off the ward and I wouldn't have a problem.
Not everyone feels able to say no. The British have a reputation for being polite and not assertive about poor service even when they are unhappy; its not a stereotype without foundation.
Autumnlights. Have you read the thread and taken in what some of the posters have said? How the Bounty reps have behaved in utterly repellent and inappropriate ways when new mothers have just had an incredible difficult birth, or their babies very poorly, or indeed when they have just lost the baby?
You may think it's okay, but judging from this thread, you are one of a tiny minority who do.
What would happen if salesmen for Stanna Stairlifts were given access to wards and could give out free samples of (insert product aimed at elderly here) in return for their details. And whilst they were at it offered a service that old people might like (ooo photos of grandkids visiting for example or takeaway delivery service to the hospital).
Would you still say that the patients could just say no. Or would you have ethical questions and concerns?
If the answer is yes then why is Bounty ok?
Or the stannah salespeople were let loose on the spinal injuries ward. Appropriate?
Or what about on an oncology ward a sales rep was allowed to give out incontinence aids and pineapple juice samples. And a copy of the DLA form to complete?
I totally agree that they should only be asked for as I do think it could be high pressure sales to people who could be in no state to make an informed choice as well as the added thing that often people struggle to refuse photos when directly asked due to the emotions involved surrounding our children.
And I completely agree that some of them are utter bastards I think all the negative stories on here should have resulted in sackings and the parents being given the photos free of charge as an apology.
And the company's presence being stopped.
But we don't know that this particular employee does the negative stuff
Bounty was started by an advertising exec so I guess its progression into the data collection business is a natural extension of that.
I don't have a problem with the distribution of free samples to new mums, but it doesn't have to go hand in hand with the flogging of other goods (framey's post had me particularly open-mouthed here). Surely the hopitals have a duty of care? I had a general anaesthetic last week and they were at pains to tell me I couldn't sign any legal docs for 24 hours. It seems rather odd that after giving birth (when I m much more dazed and confused) the hospital could assist someone in getting me into debt.
I have half a mind to start a rival freebie distribution outfit with less junk paper in the pack and no data collection unless you log on when you get home and opt in...
Or the stannah salespeople were let loose on the spinal injuries ward. Appropriate?
ohh, let me think... perhaps because having a baby is supposed to be a HAPPY occasion? A good reason to be in hospital? Something you might want photographed? I agree that Bounty photographers should always be 1000% certain that the parents they approach are happy, not behind the privacy of a curtain or a closed door, are not attached to drips and whatnot, are not crying or obviously struggling, are not without their baby (no Mum should ever have to explain to a rep that her baby is in SCBU or has passed away)
Rindercella there was a thread on this subject earlier in the year. MNHQ were asked about a campaign on it. They said they would look into it as it was clearly a massive problem that was causing a lot of distress, but clearly its not gone any further.
I guess one of the problems with that is that Bounty itself its a direct competitor to MN with its parenting forums and that maybe caused them to have a conflict of interests.
Would be interesting to know exactly why MNHQ never took the ball and ran with it as a campaign though.
Hi RedToothbrush,
We approached Bounty at the time of the last thread highlighting the strength of feeling against their activities and suggested that they should do a survey on here to find out what kind of interaction is acceptable to new mums in hospital, as well as to evaluate and improve their code of practice for photographers and feedback/complaints procedure.
They seemed interested for a bit but then came back and said they didn't think Mumsnet could provide a sufficiently "robust and relevant sample base".
They did say "please be assured that we have listened to Mumsnet members and made changes to our Code of Conduct in respect of the issues raise regarding photography and child benefit forms, and in addition we are:
Making sure mums-to-be whove already joined Bounty before they have their baby (7 out of 10 join Bounty before they meet the Bounty lady in hospital) know about our Code of Conduct to so they are clear about what they expect when they meet the Bounty lady
Contacting all mums after they return from hospital to invite them tell us about their experience - any negative feedback will be addressed
Considering a consultation with hospitals about whether we can introduce a sign to hang on beds/curtains to indicate whether mums would like to be visited by the Bounty lady."
It does seem, however, from this thread that they have some way to go so we'd be happy to give some further thought about how we might encourage them to address some of the problems. Do let us know if you have some ideas on how to proceed.
autumn have you even read the rest of the thread? If it was simply a case of "would you like a picture?" "no" "fine thank you bye", no one would have an issue.
But, sadly from the thread, its not always like that. I honestly thought I was in a minority with my experience but clearly not.
Whilst there are probably some nice people who work for the company, do what they are asked and are courteous, there are, of course, going to be those who aren't. Every career is like that, there are good or bad wherever you go, that's just human nature. They are self managed when they are on these wards.
I think the NHS needs to monitor them a lot more to make sure shocking things aren't done or said. Women who have had a bad birth experience resulting in complications, prematurity or death should be strictly off limits. (That also goes hand in hand with my feeling it should be a given that women in these situations should not be forced onto the maternity ward with the babies). They also need to be transparent in what they gain from it.
Also, Bounty, as a massive company, needs to exercise better management of the people it employs. There should be a strict aspect to walking off with babies (that just leaves mums open to baby snatching frankly). The fact that the packs have gone from a freebie filled with great sized products to a plastic bag with a tea bag and a load of sales bumpf and a pushy sales pitch for photos shows that they have perhaps forgotten their original ideology and now its just about the money from selling photos to selling details. A case of "too big for their boots"?
Giving birth, whether it goes how it should or not, is a stressful time, where the last thing you need is snarky comments and pressure sales. The same with MWs who can be rude and ignorant and thus should be retrained, these photographers, the one's I class as the "Bounty Bitches" should just be sacked immediately for lying or causing upset.
Yes Fellowship, I've read the thread.
All of it.
autumnlights12 - I would say if you're still in hosptial and not just realised after a couple of hours, that's a sign you've not had a straight forward birth - so while it's a happy time that you have a new baby, it's also a pretty good sign that either you or your DC are ill and recovering from a non-straight forward birth. these days it's not normal to keep the "easy birth" woman in - any friends who've had a birth like that have been home within a few hours.
anyone in long enough for the bounty woman to bother them come round has obviously had a birth that requires some recovery.
You can both be happy you have had a child and also very very ill yourself.
In that case autumn and in response to your idea that "birth is a happy experience and people may want photos". Yep, they do.
But the mass majority of us
a) own a camera
b) own a camera phone
c) are shattered
d) don't want someone to annoy the shit out of us with lies.
Double that if they are in my position.
Thanks JustineMumsnet its good to know where this is up to and that you have been on the ball with it.
That does give food for thought and a bit of direction.
Autumn: it's wrong. You know it is.
Justine, thank you. That is all very interesting.
I personally think that a consultation should be started with the NHS to decide whether there is a need for Bounty reps to be on maternity wards at all.
Why should anyone but a HCP have access to you?
Also, why is it ok for bounty staff to wander around outside of visiting hours without supervision? Even if they are continued to be allowed on wards, I'd want one to be supervised at all times by a member of hospital staff.
They aren't hosptial staff, they aren't family of the baby, why are they allowed to be alone with other people's children at all?
If the NHS was forced to pay someone to walk round with any non-staff member accessing paitents outside of visiting hours you might find they aren't quite so keen on them.
And i also think even telling a non-family member and non-NHS staff member that someone's lost a baby or their DC is sick is not a good thing, that in itself would be considered a breech of the woman's/child's data protection. Why is it ok for them to provide this information to a company rep at all?
Thanks JustineMumsnet.
I think one of the suggestions is very good and would solve a lot of problems-
"Introduce a sign to hang on beds/curtains to indicate whether mums would like to be visited by the Bounty lady."
If this was an opt in system i.e. mum's had to display a sign to indicate they were interested in order to be approached and no sign meant they couldnt be approached, I think that would be even better.
It is no surprise to me that Bounty have only said they are considering having a consultation about doing this, as that doesnt really mean doing anything, but if this could be made into a more concrete action I think it would be a big step forward.
ok, I'm clearly in the minority.
For the record, I did have a difficult birth- pre eclampsia, ventouse.. and was still happy to take the Bounty bag and have a photo. Clearly I'm odd for doing that.
It was specifically mentioned earlier in the year to employees that it had been brought to their attention the inappropriate practices of, saying photos are for security purposes and having the cb form was dependant on taking the details. They made it clear in no uncertain terms this was a stackable offence (I had no knowledge of either of these things being done in my region) I believe that was a direct result of hearing the feedback from here.
I sincerely hope the people who did hear either of these that it was over 6 months ago and they are recounting from a while back?
Should also have added, the best case senario for me would be to see them go altogether, rather than making compromises like this, but I accept that it might be easier to at least get mums some protection within the current arrangements rather than get shut of them.
Dontbeatmeup, did you mention that last night? That there had been specific guidelines given as to best practices and that bad practices would be a sackable offence? If not, it seems odd that you didn't. I seem to remember reading that you were shocked such things went on and that you'd never heard of these things happening? I might be wrong though.
Just read a few posts sorry, I have always thoguth of bounty as a bit of a joke, easy way to get free nappy cream but I am horrified and would back any petitiion to ban them
I have a problem with Bounty reps being on the wards at all. In a room just outside the locked ward, fine. But absolutely not in a supposedly secure maternity ward. If there's just an opt in/out sign at the end of the bed, then the reps are still free to roam the wards, overhearing all sorts of personal and confidential information.
I don't like it one bit and think the practice needs to end.
Dontbeatmeup - surely that requires woman understanding what had happened was wrong and knowing who to report it too, and having the energy with a newborn to go through a reporting proceedure. Most will just put it behind them, that's how people like that get away with it.
The principle of someone who isn't NHS staff having access to the wards for commerical gain outside of visiting hours is plain wrong, even if the staff all were 100% well behaved and helpful.
and as far as them taking women's addresses off their notes - the DPA required personal info to be appropriately secured, which this is not. It is a failing on the part of the hospital trust and if it's happened to you complain loudly
Was shocked at the conversations that were had that were so tactless and upsetting for the mums. There was a discussion on mumsnet earlier in the year about these two practices so had heard this before, and wasn't surprised when then follow up e mail was sent to employees. I sincerely hope that all of the employees have stopped this.
It's not going to stop because hospitals are not going to give up the money they get.
That's the bottom line. The hospitals have made the decision to give access to us at this time because they get cash. It's not bounty we should be focusing on.
It's the NHS.
Not read whole thread but you should write two formal complaints. One to bounty, pref with name of that woman, but one to the hospital asking them to ban them from the ward.
Also congrats on new baby.
I think Bounty is rubbish - women should be given a high quality birth & baby manual during pregnancy with considered links to valuable sources of support, such as ante-natal classes, their local NCT, nurseries and child-minders, toddler groups etc. Not just a couple of free samples from a commercial company which has no real concern for their well-being. And do they still provide "Emma's diary" - how rubbish is that ? As an early years practitioner as well as a mother I know that parents are their children's first and most important educators. The information given to new mothers should reflect this and not just be the low level rubbish about how to get 50p off your next packet of nappies
I don't really remember my brief encounter with the photographer (I vaguely remember some photo was probably offered which we declined) though some people's stories are shocking. But I know what I really needed is some compassionate empathic care from nurses or others. Whilst I was on the post-natal ward no-one asked me how I was feeling or how the birth went, or how I was coping/ getting on with my newborn (DC1) There was some support and check-ups for physical things such as whether feeding was established etc. And that was it !
So, I think the sort of person they do need on PN wards is someone trained in counseling who can listen to women's experiences. Whether this is a professional (eg nurse) or well-trained, vetted, and supervised volunteer I think this would make a huge difference to women's experiences of early motherhood and to their well-being.
So by Dontbeatmeupitsxmas own admission on this thread midwifes are telling outsiders confidential information about patients so she knows which ones she can approach and which she can't.
And the hospitals don't seem to be aware of how merely allowing salespeople access to people on wards means they are automatically breaching trading standards by putting vulnerable patients in a situation where they are more likely to make decisions that they wouldn't normally make under any other circumstances.
Bounty make money. And as long as they are enabled to do so by the NHS they will always argue that they wouldn't be allowed to do it, if it breeched the rules.
Except it does.
The NHS are protecting Bounty and the NHS are acting for their own financial benefit and not in the best interests of patients.
Campaign needs to be aimed at hospitals and politicians not Bounty.
HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly - you are so right. The NHS is allowing this to happen in lots of hospitals, to vunerable women.
I do not think anyone other than medical\hospital staff and close family should be allowed on any ward in any hospital.
I agree.
What we need is a campaign to get the NHS to change its rule on this. To see that it is confidentiality issue, a duty of care issue and a common decency issue.
And to put that before the cash that bounty gives it.
We can get rid of bounty without focusing on them directly at all.
I'm a bit at some of these stories. I'm a mw & work on a pn ward. The Bounty ladies always check with staff first if any woman has a baby in nnu first to make sure they don't go in & ask if any other rooms need avoiding for any other reason. They don't go and wake up women & if I were to get any reports that they do, I'd get on their case! And there is no way they have access to personal details of the women on the ward. Contact details etc... are given out by the women themselves,
I do agree they shouldn't be there, but if they are, sounds like some should get some training as to how to act on a pn ward!
And what a joke to say that during pregnancy 7 out of 10 women "join" Bounty.
You mean people who sign and send off something in Emma's diary for lots of free samples when that's the only pregnancy, birth, and baby info they've been given during ante-natal visits ? Ha !
So MW's are allowed to give out confidential information (baby is in SCBU o their baby has died etc ), to these Bounty ladies?
I was pre warned by MN. The Bounty lady came outside of visiting hours and told me I needed a bounty pack to get CB form. I took pack, but didn't give her any of my details which she accepted.
Why is acceptable for Bounty to pay and be on the ward? Why not Venture photography, or maybe Mother care could come round selling things. It is wrong that the NHS is willing to accept money for access to patients.
It is also wrong for Bounty to take advantage of vulnerable people.
How can we stop this?
Belgina - isn't it a breach of confidentiality to tell the Bounty rep that a woman's baby is ill? I'd think so.
If the NHS is going to continue to let Bounty reps onto wards, their access to patints should be on a strictly opt in basis.
Just get rid Spartacus - that is the clear way forward. Amazing they've got away with this bollocks for so long really. And anyway so many family members have a digital camera or mobile to take a nice picture with these days. If it's for security a nurse could easily do the same and it would provide an easy opportunity for a nice wee bit of friendly encouragement from staff which is often sorely needed.
Doesn't it come down to the fact that sales people should simply not be allowed on NHS wards? (Does this happen in any other circumstance? Are brands allowed to tout their wares at patients in any other department?).
Surely if MNHQ are not able to start a campaign, then us, the masses, streaming support down this thread can set up our own petition and letter writing campaign?
Agree with RedToothbrush that campaign should be targeted at NHS Commissioning Bodies and Government, as they will be the ones that decide policy and whether Bounty can be allowed in hospitals.
Bounty is not to listen to us and end their lucrative business when they have a contract to be there.
Hmm, given that Bounty gave MNHQ the brush off I really think they should officially support this campaign. If it is a conflict of interest then make it broader, ie ban the NHS from selling direct access to patients (I think some one up thread mentioned a non-bounty photographer). MNHQ has some serious clout and if they got behind this things could really happen.
In fact, imagine if MNHQ joined forces with NMHQ! That really would get things going...
Bealos - we certainly can. But I have no idea how to go about something like that.
I don't think there is any breach of confidentiality in saying, lady in bed 2 shouldn't be approached. Lets not demonise these people, they are only doing their jobs. MW and bounty lady. I understand the feelings running high here, but lets get some perspective. They aren't dolling out heroin or stealing our babies.
As justine has said, bounty took note of things said here before, and dontbeatmeup has said it is now a stackable offence to say the photos are for security or you can only get the cb form from them.
Lets hope they have begun to turn a corner and OPs experience is one rogue bounty lady(there may be others, I don't know) because bounty themselves aren't going to stop off their own backs, only when the NHS gets the funding they need to run services without the input of private companies will this sort of this stop.
But Glaikit - there are clearly many other 'rogue' Bounty ladies, as many posters on this thread have shown. Clearly, although they may told not to approach certain women for whatever reason, some obviously don't listen.
They sound awful.
We do have this sort of thing in the US but not this same company...I don't think they get any details and we don't have child benefit forms anyway so they couldn't lie about it.
Someone tried to take a picture of DS when he was born but he was screaming blue murder both times she stopped by, so she never got one. I'm due to give birth in May in a teeny tiny little hospital (will probably be the only one in labor there) and I doubt I'll have to worry about it.
"Doesn't it come down to the fact that sales people should simply not be allowed on NHS wards? (Does this happen in any other circumstance? Are brands allowed to tout their wares at patients in any other department?)."
a guy from the WHSmith shop in my local hospital goes around the wards with a trolly selling newspapers, snacks, slippers, toiletries etc. But there is not doubt about who he is, he never goes behind closed curtains and he just shouts from the door of the bay "newspapers, snacks, slippers" then anyone who wants some calls him over. He doesn't approach each patient in turn. He comes around less now as each ward now has a volunteer who can be asked to go down to the shop for patients instead, the volunteer doesn't work for the shop.
I didn't expect such a huge response when I started this, sorry I'm not taking an active part in the discussion as you can imagine I'm pretty busy atm.
I do agree with something raised though, my dp was unable to visit me yesterday, when bounty lady got me, I'd asked if my Mum could take his place as such, hold dd while I showered and help me organise my things for going home, I was told no, yet this women crept out of her cupboard and approach me and harass me when I let my guard down and left my curtain open to eat lunch
But visualise we don't know when these anecdotes are from. Only 6 months ago were bounty employees told that the security/cb lies were a stackable offence. Prior to that bounty obviously thought they were ok.
I'm trying to play devils advocate. A bounty rep has posted here as has a MW both saying the same thing. Not all bounty reps will act in the manner described by some one here. My rep was kind and non pushy, but then I bought the photos and gave her my details. She popped back a few times because I was feeding or ds was sleeping, and at no point was she pushy. She was crap at spelling and reading a calendar, but she was nice.
cheerful I didn't know y were expecting! Congrats! Can't wait for little Shitta to make an appearance! <end of hijack>
GlaikitFizzogTheChristmasElf the Bounty rep on here is refusing to admit she is a sales person so there is still a current culture of unashamed deception
All hospitals have very strict visiting rules, which is understandable as in the morning the peadiatric doctors have to do their rounds and blood tests, orthopods, breast feeding helpers there are lots of us running around. Then partners are allowed in later, stateofconfusion the same happened to me and they wouldn't let my Mum in either. But we have a job to do and that means being there every morning to stock delivery and scbu with nappies and wipes and try to see every mum before she goes home.
While I am sure that the person who works for Bounty has not used these selling techniqes, these people shold NOT be on the wards at all. I think it is fair to say that giving birth and the time after, no matter if its your first or 15th is a vulnerable, emotional time. The only people on the ward should be health proffessionals and family. The fact that security kept my family, including DP wait at the front door yet someone who I do not know has free unrestricted access is ridiculous.
If god forbid the worst happened and my baby was not with me due to complications or passing on, I would rather that the midwife is not telling strangers about it. That is MY business and no one elses.
They also should not be watching peoples kids for them on the ward.
4 babies and never net the bounty lady lucky me.
However if I'd got her at my last birth (different hospital to the 1st three) I would have gone divvy. My dh wasn't even allowed on the ward to help me carry my stuff out, he had to wait at the doors
That is true Glaikit - we don't know how old these stories are. But I imagine some of them are fairly recently. Any one out there with a pushy Bounty lady story from the last 6 months?
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(That was to Dontbeatmeup)
But you dont work for the hospital Dontbeatmeupitsxmas, you are not a helper. You are a sales person. Instead of going door to door, you go bed to bed. Stocking up on nappies? For who? SCBU have their own supplies. Bounty