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Broadridge is a leading provider of investor communications and technology-driven-solutions to banks, broker-dealers, mutual funds, and corporations globally. Our systems and services include investor communication solutions, securities processing and operations. In short, we provide...
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Insurance Technologies provides innovative sales and regulatory automation solutions to the insurance and financial services industries. Our products ForeSight™ (sales illustration) and FireLight® (e-application business fulfillment) supply carriers and distribution partners the...
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Silanis provides electronic signature solutions deployed either on-premises or on the cloud, and automates business processes that require secure, compliant, auditable and legally enforceable electronic signatures and records. By taking customer-facing transactions such as...
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Find out why the sixth largest bank in Europe uses QTest. Quotium Technologies is a global leader in web site load testing, database optimization and database monitoring software. Quotium Technologies products give large enterprises the web performance
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VASCO Data Security International, Inc.
VASCO is the number one supplier of strong authentication and e-signature solutions and services. VASCO has established itself as the world's leading software company specialized in Internet Security. We have a customer base of over 8,000 companies in more than 100 countries,...
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Deloitte & Touche LLP
The member firms of Deloitte offer clients a broad range of audit, tax, consulting and financial advisory services. Our client service teams, under the leadership of a Lead Client Service Partner, help create powerful business solutions for organizations operating anywhere in the...
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CoreOne Technologies is a leading, global provider of financial data management services and product solutions to the Securities industry.
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Cogent Communications Inc
Cogent Communications Group, Inc. (NASDAQ: CCOI) is a multinational, Tier 1 facilities-based ISP, consistently ranked as one of the top five networks in the world. Cogent specializes in providing businesses with high speed Internet access, point-to-point transport and colocation...
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With around 130,000 people in 44 countries, Capgemini is one of the world's foremost providers of consulting, technology and outsourcing services. The Group reported 2013 global revenues of EUR 10.1 billion. A deeply multicultural organization, Capgemini has developed its own way...
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Peter Pawlett will miss out on the second leg of Aberdeen's Europa League first qualifying round tie with Daugava Riga in Latvia on Thursday.
The attacking midfielder needs treatment for the ankle injury that forced him off midway through the Dons' 5-0 first-leg win.
New signing David Goodwillie is ineligible to play, while Clark Robertson is also missing as he rehabilitates from a knee injury.
Vitalijs Zils and Aurimas Kucys are suspended for the Latvians after picking up red cards in Scotland.
The winners will face Dutch side FC Groningen in the next qualifying round.
Aberdeen manager Derek McInnes said: "The pitch is slightly better condition than we thought. We're trying to think what their approach to it is.
\"For me, they'll come and throw caution to the wind and have a right go at us early, we've got to be ready for that.
"It is a very good lead but we know there's still work to be done in this tie. Games can turn very quickly through lack of discipline or lack of approach to it.
"We don't need to be brilliant but we do need to be professional and we do need to be wary that we have to bring individual performances to the game.
"Watching the game back [first leg] I don't think they were overly physical, I just think there was a frustration and they lost their way a wee bit and that came out in some poor discipline from their players towards the end.
"For our part we just have to make sure we're fully focused and don't get involved in anything."


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LOGIN TO myHadassah
Yesterday, the United Nations Education, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) Executive Board voted 40-4 (with 14 countries absenting), approving a draft resolution for Palestinian membership. For the Palestinians to gain actual membership, the final resolution would need to be approved by UNESCO's 193-nation General Conference, which will be meeting next month.
The United States was one of the four countries opposing the resolution—along with Germany, Latvia and Romania—and hopes to block the vote at the General Conference. US Ambassador to UNESCO David Killion stated, "Granting the Palestinians full membership now in a specialized agency such as UNESCO is premature. Given that the UN Security Council is reviewing the Palestinian application, we believe it is inappropriate for a UN specialized agency to also take up the same matter."
If the Palestinians gain membership to UNESCO, the US may be bound by existing legislation to stop payments to the organization. The State Department confirmed that lawyers are researching the issue to determine how exactly Palestinian membership could affect US dues and contributions to UNESCO, which make up 22 percent of the organization's budget.
UNESCO, which is involved in the protection of historical and cultural landmarks, has released decisions in the past that denied Israeli and Jewish connections to holy sites. Palestinian membership might further promote this agenda and would likely add to additional conflict over religious sites throughout Jerusalem.
The United States, Israel and other Quartet members continue to pressure the Palestinians to return to direct, bilateral negotiations without delay or preconditions, in place of pursing their Unilateral Declaration of Independence.


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Does Resurrection Contradict Science?
So what then does Resurrection mean? For Benedict it represents a new dimension of reality breaking through into human experience. It is not a violation of the old; it is the manifestation of something new.
The Resource Finder has powerful filtering features — check out the tutorial to learn more.
So what then does Resurrection mean? For Benedict it represents a new dimension of reality breaking through into human experience. It is not a violation of the old; it is the manifestation of something new.
We now take for granted an understanding of the Christian story that was largely worked out by Paul and later theologians. Even though the Gospels were composed after Paul's letters, they were concerned to tell the story itself in all its strangeness as it had been preserved by the first generation of Christians. And what we find in the stories themselves is the shock and wonder and surprise that the resurrection caused.
Over the next few months, with permission from Yale University Press, BioLogos will offer edited versions of chapters from John Polkinghorne's best books, Belief in God in an Age of Science and Theology in the Context of Science, in order to help readers delve more deeply into some of his most important ideas.
The God who created the cosmos is the God who came to us as a child in Bethlehem.
Speaking in parables is indeed similar to an artist's craft. They create impressions, whole new worlds of meaning intended to turn old worlds on their heads.
Classical Christian orthodoxy as expressed in the Creeds begins at the beginning: nature owes its existence to and is sustained by Jesus Christ. One implication is that the best way of finding out about nature is to look at nature.
Gregg Davidson and Ken Wolgemuth seek to remove the stumbling block of the Genesis flood in this four part series. Though many believe in an ancient world-wide flood, the evidence given does not hold up to geological scrutiny, but points rather to something regional instead. It is their hope that Christians will not walk away from faith in Christ simply because a global flood is not supported by science. Looking at natural phenomena like the Grand Canyon, salt beds, and fossil deposits, they reveal reasons for these deposits and structures while showing that their origin did not stem from a violent flood that covered the planet.
"I flatter myself," Hume triumphantly proclaimed, "that I have discovered an argument . . . which, if just, will, with the wise and learned, be an everlasting check to all kinds of superstitious delusion, and consequently, will be useful as long as the world endures."
In this talk, Professor Plantinga addresses the fact that many contemporary thinkers—including many theologians—believe that God cannot perform miracles, providentially guide history, or interact in the lives of people, as these activities would be contrary to science. Plantinga, on the other hand, makes the case that this popular view is mistaken; excluding divine action in the world is not a central feature of natural science itself, but a philosophical or theological preference that has been added on to science (and can just as readily be removed). Plantinga concludes that it is completely logical to accept the miracles of the Bible and support contemporary science.
Does God need to supernaturally "intervene" in order to bring about the diversity of life that we observe today? Is that kind of action different from God's ordinary action? We begin our three-part series with Robert John Russell's description of how views of divine action have changed throughout history, excerpted from his book Cosmology: From Alpha to Omega. Part 2 addresses why "intervention" in the natural world is a problem philosophically, theologically, and scientifically; and Part 3 explains Russell's own theory of divine action in the natural world.
We think that God created all living organisms, including humans, through the evolutionary process. But acceptance of creation through evolution does not mean that we reject the notion of a miracle-working God. On the contrary...
In this five part series, two young men, Josh and Aron, engage each other through e-mail letters. Their conversation oscillates between the seemingly suspicious elements of God and the gospel (raised by Josh) as well as responses that offer meaningful insight into these questions (answered by Aron). Ideas such as prayer, judgment, and the concealed nature of God are among the many points in this truth-seeking exchange.
This series written by Brian Godawa delves into eschatological passages with "de-creation language." He argues that these passages do not foretell literal geophysical events to come, but, put into the context of the Old Testament thinking, actually describe the dethroning of worldly powers and the establishing of God's kingdom on Earth. This, according to Godawa, happened when Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
Sometimes Christians and non-Christians alike fall into thinking that God is only active in creation when there are miraculous violations of natural laws.
Our estrangement from God began when early humans disobeyed God's will and took a path leading away from God. Genes and culture contribute to a sinful world in which all people are born and nurtured, and our impact on our environment distorts the terrestrial creation.
In this five section series, Ard Louis explores the relationship between science and miracles. He indicates the self-imposed limitations of science to discover knowledge while warning against the God-of-the-Gaps explanations. Then, he explains the two types of miracles seen in Scripture: those that are divine timing and those that are violations of the natural. Overall, God sustains natural processes, but, as the master composer, he has the ability to perform miracles as well.
Central to all of this is the resurrection of Jesus. Rising from the dead is the true beginning of this new mode of existence in which believers—right here and now—take part. Believing in Jesus means you are benefiting from Jesus' resurrection already now in the new life you experience by the power of the Spirit.
The three part series, written by Paul Seely, explores the scientific validity of the Flood in Genesis. He offers the approximate date of the flood according to Scripture, and then looks at various lines of evidence that contradict the idea of a global flood at that time. In light of other Mesopotamian flood stories, scholars conclude that the flood was local at best. In the end, he suggests that this story primarily reveals theological truths from a limited scientific understanding of natural events.
Many evangelicals believe that Young Earth Creationism is the only authentic, biblical way for Christians to understand origins, and that until the advent of Darwin's theory of evolution, it was the only view held by Christians. However, in this excerpt from Saving Darwin, Karl Giberson explains that Young Earth Creationism's origins are surprisingly recent.


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113 E Ellis St
(208) 436-1650
Driving directions
Moving to or from Paul, ID, 83347? Get FREE truck rental rate quotes at Swensens #3. U-Haul rental trucks are specifically engineered from the ground up to assist moving families, not freight. Our moving trucks have more safety features than other moving trucks in the industry including gentle ride suspension and high visibility mirrors to assist the driver. Whether you are moving a smaller apartment or a large four-bedroom house, U-Haul truck rentals in Paul, ID will provide you with the moving truck rental you need to get from point A to point B. Find the perfect size moving truck to assist with your move, U-Haul is home of the $19.95 rental truck!
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U-Haul cargo van rentals and pickup trucks in Paul, ID are perfect for home improvement projects, deliveries and other small loads. Rent cargo vans or pickups to save money on local moving or deliveries. Cargo van and pickup truck rentals are popular with local business, college students and smaller housing moves in Paul, ID, 83347. Our moving van rentals include air conditioning, rub rails to protect your belongings and come equipped with a hitch to tow a trailer rental. U-Haul is the home of the $19.95 cargo van rental in Paul, ID, reserve a van for your moving needs from Swensens #3!
Extremely friendly service! Everything went smooth. Thanks!
When I picked up the truck, first I was charged $50 more than what I was quoted and the representative would not try and work with me at all. She had stated that she was going to a baby shower and it seemed like she was just pushing me out the door. When I inspected the truck I noticed that there was dirt in the back, she said she would sweep it out. She put my equipment in and closed the door. When I began loading the truck I realized there was an oil spill all the way in the front. I had to ruin one if my towels to clean it up so no one was hurt. I have always had good experiences with u-haul, but this whole experience makes me want to use another company. I was very disappointed with this experience!!! The location that I turned the truck into was very polite and seemed to show true concern regarding my experience. He was the only upside to this experience.
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text:
|The Message (MSG)
|New International Version (NIV)
|1 Here's what will happen. While you're out among the nations where God has dispersed you and the blessings and curses come in just the way I have set them before you, and you and your children take them seriously
|1 When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come upon you and you take them to heart wherever the LORD your God disperses you among the nations,
|Published by permission. Originally published by NavPress in English as THE MESSAGE: The Bible in Contemporary Language copyright 2002 by Eugene Peterson. All rights reserved. (The Message Bible Online)
|Scripture quoted by permission. Quotations designated (NIV) are from THE HOLY BIBLE: NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®. NIV®. Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by Biblica. All rights reserved worldwide. (New International Version Bible Online)


text:
Wednesday's Small-Cap Winners & Losers
Pep Boys (PBY) rose after the car parts and service chain reported second-quarter earnings from continuing operations of $1.5 million, or 3 cents a share, compared with $832,000, or 1 cent a share, a year ago. Revenue rose slightly to $578.6 million. Analysts were looking for earnings of 2 cents a share on revenue of $580.8 million. Shares rose 68 cents, or 6.9%, to $10.49.
Bioenvision (BIVN) surged after Prudential initiated coverage of the biopharmaceutical company with an overweight rating. Shares gained 54 cents, or 12.3%, to $4.92.
ABM Industries (ABM) rose after the company settled its World Trade Center-related litigation with Zurich American Insurance for $80 million. ABM, which provides janitorial, parking and security services, will receive a payment that will increase its fourth-quarter net income by about $45 million, or 90 cents a share. ABM gained 91 cents, or 5.4%, to $17.87.
Analyst actions were also moving some stocks including, Universal Stainless & Alloy Products (USAP), recently up more than 7% following an upgrade by CL King, and Meridian Bioscience (VIVO), higher by 4.5% following an upgrade by Hilliard Lyons.MGP Ingredients (MGPI) slipped after its fourth-quarter earnings missed analysts' expectations. The maker of food ingredients and distillery products earned $7.4 million, or 43 cents a share, but analysts were looking for earnings of 46 cents a share. Sales rose 22% to $90.3 million. Shares fell 85 cents, or 4.5%, to $18.10 recently. Global Imaging Systems (GISX) fell 8 cents, or 0.4%, to $21.34 after splitting its stock 2 for 1. Casella Waste Systems (CWST) fell after the company forecast a first-quarter loss compared with the profit Wall Street was expecting. The company expects to release its results on Sept. 6. Shares dropped $1.87, or 13.7%, to $11.77.
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The Left has become more popular after it emerged this month that hundreds of Germans deposited cash in secret accounts in Liechtenstein, in an attempt to evade taxes.
Kurt Beck, chairman of the SPD, has suggested that the SPD use Left party votes to seize power in Hesse after a deadlocked vote there in January.
Beck's idea was fiercely criticised by party members who are opposed to the Left, which is comprised of ex-communists and former SPD members.


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Podnah's Pit Barbecue
1625 NE Killingsworth, Portland, OR 97211 |
Get Directions
Phone: (971) 222-5482
Specialty Dishes: Smoking Trout, Lamb Ribs, Smoked Beef Brisket
This BBQ joint's doing it their own way with a self-made smoker cranking out "30 tons of 'cue a year from spareribs and chicken to pulled pork and classic Texas brisket." They're smoking everything - lamb loaded with cumin, fresh trout, etc. - but don't leave without trying the fire-torched salsa.
See an error? Report This Listing
As Seen On
Oyster Rocks at the Rib
Recipe courtesy of Dale Stephenson, owner of Whale's Rib in Deerfield Beach, FL.
- Cook Time:
- 12 min
Smoked Beef Brisket
Recipe courtesy of Rodney Muirhead, owner of Podnah's Pit, in Portland, OR.
- Cook Time:
- 10 hr
Corn Dressing for Southern Fried Chicken
Recipe courtesy of Don MacKenzie, owner of donnie mac's... Trailer Park Cuisine, in Boise, ID.
- Cook Time:
- 5 min


text:
Car ran fine for a while then just died. Now it will start cold and run fine but when it gets warm it just dies. It has 40lbs fuel pressure and no spark. Anyone know what could cause this? Thanks
View questions for:All Lincoln
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1990 Lincoln Town Car Question: Why would an 88 town car with a 5.0 run and then die when it warms up?
wrenched, Buhl, ID, November 11, 2010, 08:15
3 Answers
Answer #1Visitor, November 11, 2010, 14:06
You know... I had a problem just like this on an 82 corvette. I trouble-shot it to the throttle position sensor. I cleaned the contacts at the connector and the sensor with a short bristle brush and alcohol and it fixed it. It might not be your problem but it's easy and it's free so it's worth a try.
Answer #2delane 72 garage and body shop November 11, 2010, 19:45Master
inj mod or dist pick up
Answer #3Machinehead6 November 11, 2010, 20:11Enthusiast
The TFI ignition modual in the distributor is probably bad. It is cool by the distributor so when the engine gets hot the modual over heats. Most parts stores can test it for you but it takes a special socket to remove it.
Common Ford problem
Answer Ranks
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|1 CharlesAutomotive
|6 Hal...
|2 pushrod
|7 lordwoton
|3 ziptie12
|8 IamSteve
|4 globalhelper
|9 stasho
|5 csubak30
|10 ProfessorG


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|Sep 03, 2012, 08:29 PM
Yeah, but, Steve needs pics for his web page..the other boat aint gonna work real sharp..
|Sep 03, 2012, 08:34 PM
Here is a quote from Lang, from a note written to Dennis on the Fairwind..
" Well, I took the boat out for a short sail - gusting to 20, but because I was on windward shore, I sailed in everything from 0 to the predominant wind of 12-15. I really don't know how to tell you this but the boat sailed very well. I am not used to the high freeboard, so rarely got the rail in the water. The boat sat perfectly on her lines - perfect with the waterline. She was balanced with the mast in the center hole, and I had the rig straight up - no rake. Virtually no helm even in the puffs even though she would slowly round up. So no harsh or irritating weather helm and no lee helm at all. The sail servo is a little weak but when the sails are trimmed it held, just wouldn't trim in a puff. Downwind the boat kept her head up even in the puffs and moved smoothly through the water.
She isn't particularly fast, but she sails well enough to enjoy her in racing conditions with other FIIIs. And when I pulled her out, no water inside at all. Of course it wasn't that much wind, and as I said the rail was rarely, if ever, in the water - let alone up to the hatch."
That was from Saturday...
|Sep 03, 2012, 10:05 PM
Once I get this other boat deal undone, I will see what other options I have.
I do have a local hobby shop that has them and their price is the best I've seen on a new one. I need to do a little more investigation before my next move.
I will be contacting Kyosho to discuss this crack to get their take on it before I send it back.
I wasn't suggesting I take pictures of the Serenity - just that I was not empty handed.
|Sep 04, 2012, 08:45 AM
Finally was able to watch you video Chi. That is great stuff and she looks good going thru the water. You know you want to drop a big brushless in her and she what she'll do?
|Sep 04, 2012, 09:18 AM
LOL..nah, any displacement hull can only go so fast..
|Sep 04, 2012, 06:03 PM
Aw come on John, put a hemi in it. All that may be true but put plenty of hp to em and they can do pretty good.
|Sep 04, 2012, 06:18 PM
Bill, after I do the hydrofoil, I'll look at it then, it has plenty of motor now, just a tiny 30mm prop..I'll know better after I see how it runs under sail+power..the foil will allow the boat to raise more and more as it goes faster, reducing wetted surface..you know me, I'll take it as far as any insane person, and nature, will allow..
|Sep 04, 2012, 07:10 PM
How fast are those boats going? If you stop the video at 31 seconds you can see one of my favorite boats in the background a 47' USCG Motor Life Boat. It's really not important, it just caught my eye.
John and I both have RC versions of that boat. Posted a couple of pictures for you. The boat in the video is the unpainted version of the boat. They make great rescue boats!!
|Sep 04, 2012, 07:48 PM
Boomer, there is a CG station there in Boothbay Harbor and that one is stationed there along with a few small boats.
They race several classes based on size, hp, type of engine (gas, diesel)
The diesel boats that actually work at lobstering run about 40mph . The fastest is a supercharged V12 that does 70+ mph and never pulled a pot. I believe I remember the one in the video was doing 42. It is a big thing up theah (thats Maine talk) and they race in different ports every weekend. Those Maine hulls are my favorite design.
Heres a shot of that 47' MLB
BTW the first 2 numbers (3 digits 100 and up) on CG vessels is their length or sometimes called class. hence yours is a 47 footer. There are no 44' still in active service. They were quite different looking than the 47s and were self righting. Back years ago when i was a Div. Vice Capt in the USCGA, the workhorse was the 40 footer. I really liked those boats.
|Sep 04, 2012, 10:34 PM
|Sep 05, 2012, 12:56 AM
If you do a search within RC Groups.com on these boats, you can find volumes of information and some amazing custom versions that forum members have created. Here are a couple of links to get you started: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...otor+life+boat
and one more: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...e+boat&page=18
If you are diligent and monitor E-bay from time to time one will go on sale. Be prepared as they bring a pretty price these days - (I prefer the Proboat version) The original retail on the Proboat versions was $593.99. Since they have become collector items, their value is holding at or around the original retail - you might get lucky and get one for less?
There is a brand new one on E-bay now at this link - it is in Southern Vancouver Island, BC.
Here is a link that tells you about the Midwest version http://www.naturecoast.com/hobby/mid...#COAST%20GUARD
And a link that tells you about the Proboat version:
I had a Dumas kit version of the 44' version - very nice boat too! I believe those kits are still made, if you are into building kit boats.
|Sep 05, 2012, 08:35 AM
Mine is for sale..
|Sep 05, 2012, 08:47 AM
Not long ago one sold on fleabay for 300 and the buyer tried to flip it for 2000 before he even got it delivered!
|Sep 05, 2012, 10:52 AM
Ouch..I have big $$ in mine, but no where near 2 grand..thats rape..
Some pics of mine at page 297, post 4452..true twin..
|Sep 05, 2012, 12:59 PM
It is a free country, or it used to be, so even though the guys price was crazy and even obscene, it was his to price for whatever he wanted.
Now as far as the comments that may have taken place, that is another issue. If someone wanted one so much as to pay that price, and had the money, why not? Someone once said "you can't rape the willing" which might be applicable in this context. Hey, for two grand, I think I'd have to let mine go for that price!
John's boat is another master piece to be sure! Got more hi-tech electronics on board than the full size version. (well almost) Like the song says "if I were a rich man" la la la la de! (Fiddler on the roof" )
Good hunting!
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Banner day in Torrington
Flags will line Main Street for Memorial Day
|A city employee installs an American flag on a light pole on Main Street in Torrington. Bruno Matarazzo Jr. Republican-American
TORRINGTON — City staff began installing American flags along Main Street on Tuesday in time for Memorial Day.
A donation by Mayor Elinor C. Carbone and an anonymous donor purchased the 24 flags and the hardware needed to hold them up. The flags will be displayed from the Water Street intersection to St. Francis Church.
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:) September 6, 2014
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See it in action here in comparison to other flashlights:
And the morse function:
The light can be seen from a very wide area and is great for morsing through the night.
A monster flashlight containing a 100W 8500Lm led with big heatsinks and batteries. With morse function to tell the night goodbye.
This project was created on 07/06/2014 and last updated 5 months ago.
See it in action here in comparison to other flashlights:
And the morse function:
The light can be seen from a very wide area and is great for morsing through the night.
To do something useful with the arduino in this project i added a morse function to tell the night what you think about it ;)
It will send any text that is received via serial and return to normal brightness afterwards:
It is possible to put the light and a raspberry pi anywhere and send messages over the internet into the darkness.
Got the potentiometer and some high quality banana terminals fixed to the case.
A lipo can be connected safe and everything works at high power.
Video will follow soon.
Next step: Video and maybe a strobe mode and a pushbutton.
Almost all components are now stuffed into the case. Still looks awful but works great.
Cooling and PWM control are working fine.
Next steps: cleaner wiring, making use of the switch and screwing banana plugs for power in and replacing the old power socket with the volt/amp meter.
Cool, I actually built one of these. a few years back. but battery powered.
Here's some pictures.(sorry they are from ebay)
very interesting design.
I am not sure if you find a buyer with this case.
Even if i like the idea. It could need some restauration ;)
Anyways the commercial 100w portable lights are often sold at way higher prices.
by Chaz
by Lexcis


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No events were found in the time range specified.


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New anti-corruption law has been voted by 119 "dead souls" in Ukrainian parliamentOn April 7 2011 Ukrainian Parliament voted on new law on prevention and counteraction of corruption....
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The Prosecutor demanded 10 years
The following is not, unfortunately, about Mikhail Khodorkovsky, and this is not only because the latest Moscow show trial-remake could carry an entirely real 22 year sentence for fictitious crimes. The words also apply to what has all the hallmarks of a frightening travesty of justice unfolding in Ukraine. How it is treated now will demonstrate whether the Ukrainian leadership's commitment to democracy and the rule of law is real or for show only.
On 2 March, the Voroshilovsky District Court in Donetsk sentenced Boris Penchuk to 8 years imprisonment for extortion (Article 189 § 4 of the Criminal Code) and giving false testimony (Article 383 § 2). The former Director of the Donetsk shopping complex "Bely Lebed" ["White Swan"], and later co-author of a book entitled "Donetsk mafia", was convicted of the same crime he had accused another man, also Boris, of back in 2005. It was this man, Boris Kolesnikov, in 2005 Head of the Donetsk Regional Council and now National Deputy from the Party of the Regions, who made the claims against Penchuk which have led to this sentence. Kolesnikov has never concealed his burning desire to punish all those responsible for four month imprisonment on remand in 2005, and it would be hard to imagine a better form of revenge.
There are any number of things we can imagine however we are dealing here with a court ruling. It is therefore extremely disturbing that in many reports and articles in the media we can learn a great deal about all kinds of political intrigues, battles and reprisals, as well as about the personal views of the journalist (or those behind a given text). Nor have politicians been in any way reticent, with quite a number, especially members of the Party of the Regions expressing very strong views about the case and "who else" should be brought to answer.
I am not offering my point of view with regard to the case. I have no such point of view and am anyway more accustomed to relying on the verdict of the court than on the verbal outpourings and vitriol of politicians. Nonetheless the verdict does present difficulties. Despite the specific legalese, it is difficult not to notice the unsubstantiated and monotonous repetition of phrases like "venal motives" etc. When the point is so stubbornly laboured, it is difficult not to find the argumentation in such a responsible document less than convincing.
There is also another problem which makes the need for public attention to this case so imperative. In a thoroughly bizarre twist one of the lawyers supposedly representing Penchuk has stated that he does not expect justice in Donetsk and is therefore intending to lodge not a normal appeal, but a final cassation appeal with the Supreme Court. This could seriously jeopardize his client's right to a fair trial, and with questions already legion, must be prevented.
The case in brief
In 2002 Boris Penchuk and members of his family sold a controlling package of shares in the shopping complex "Bely Lebed" to Boris Kolesnikov. According to the Verdict, Penchuk asked for the amount of each share to be given as 0.63 UAH, whereas the real price was 2.60 UAH.
In spring 2005 Penchuk accused Boris Kolesnikov, former Head of the Donetsk Regional Council and a prominent figure in Yanukovych's Party of the Regions of having extorted the shares for much less than their market level on threat of physical reprisals if he refused.
Kolesnikov was under fire from the new regime following the Orange Revolution and these charges were used to remand him in custody for a few months before lawyers and prominent friends managed to secure his release. The Human Rights Ombudsperson Nina Karpacheva spoke out in his defence. The two were to become political colleagues when they both secured mandates from the Party of the Regions and became National Deputies in the March 2006 parliamentary elections.
In April 2006 the Prosecutor General closed the criminal investigation into the allegations made by Boris Penchuk. As mentioned, Kolesnikov has been vocal in calling for those who had him imprisoned, including the Minister of Internal Affairs, Yury Lutsenko, to themselves be prosecuted. In July 2007 the Donetsk Regional Prosecutor declared Penchuk on the wanted list, and initiated a criminal investigation against him under Articles 383 § 2 (knowingly making a false report of a crime") and 384 § 2 ("knowingly false testimony"). At this stage, no mention was made of the more serious charge of extortion and Penchuk was never detained, although he made no attempt to hide from the police.
Rather dramatically in October 2007, Penchuk publicly withdrew all his accusations and claimed that he had made them under pressure from the then (and present) Minister of Internal Affairs Yury Lutsenko. The latter denied all such claims.
Boris Penchuk was suddenly taken into custody in October 2008. It is unclear when the charge of extortion was added.
It is for another court, and if necessary all other courts right up to the European Court of Human Rights, to determine what the truth was in this case.
It is extremely disturbing, however, to read in the Verdict used to sentence a man to 8 years imprisonment of an "unidentified individual" with whom Penchuk was supposedly conspiring to commit the imputed crime and who, without identifying himself (!) gave testimony to the police.
A tragic farce is unfolding at present in Moscow, with the courts playing their part. Whether or not all players will, puppet-like, meekly follow instructions, is this time not one hundred percent clear, and will to a large extent depend on how intent international scrutiny remains.
It is frustrating to hear entirely similar accusations and assumptions regarding puppet courts made about the situation in Ukraine. It is even worse that the optimism needed to reject such allegations would seem clinically diagnosable. Not one politician has seen fit to mention the importance of judicial independence. They have all, including the Minister of Internal Affairs effectively commented not on a legal case, but on a political event acted out in a courtroom.
It is baffling – and worrying – that Penchuk's lawyer could even be thinking of not following the proper procedure in this case. There is no reason to assume unquestioningly that the Supreme Court will overturn the ruling, and it will then be too late to follow the normal avenues. Even the European Court of Human Rights would then be likely to turn down an application on the grounds that domestic measures were not exhausted.
It is vital not only that the right each person has to a fair trial, including all stages of appeal, is fully observed, but also that attention both within Ukraine and from concerned observers outside the country is firmly focused on this case, to ensure that the rule of law prevails.
The reader may well think that it's already too late, that the judiciary is corrupt to the core and that there's nothing left to salvage. Over recent times this is what all, including politicians, have been bellowing. It's convenient for them if everybody believes this, after all only an idiot will try to reform what cannot be changed.
And yet, despite the worrying sentence in Penchuk's case, we are still a long way from the legal travesty which is increasingly known by the name of one most notorious Moscow court – "Basmanny justice". Let's make sure that this remains the case.
Halya Coynash.
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Pak Tea House » History, India » History and Interpretation:Communalism and Problems of Historiography
History and Interpretation:Communalism and Problems of Historiography
Shaheryar Ali
There has been an interesting debate going on in the pages of PakTea House e-zine regarding Indian history. This debate is also at the heart of the "history wars" which are going on in India and Pakistan. In Pakistan it has acquired a specific character because , a version of communal historiography had to be adopted to built "Pakistani Nationalism".
When a nation state was to be built on Muslim identity and Muslim separatism, it had to rely on a version of history which starts with Muslim invaders, all the debates in such form of history revolve around a particular community, in this case "Muslims". It is supposed that somehow that community was always "separate", "distinct" and somewhat independent of other people this community was living with. This type of history is just self-serving; it lives and thrives on a particular kind of politics. This communal or as thesedays its fashionable to call it "nationalist" politics, Hindu nationalist and Muslim nationalist politics. For this type of politics, history is just a tool to justify the contemporary politics with ancient events.
It therefore becomes important to demolish a historical structure, like Babri Mosque, as a symbol of "national revival", correcting the "historical wrongs", avenging the so called Muslim colonialism. No one bothers , how many temples in India were demolished by Hindu rulers and how many mosques were demolished by Mujahid rulers. [Aurangzeb for example closed down the Shia Mosques in Hyderabad, and converted the main Imam bargahinto a horse stable, or Mahmood of Ghazni's loot of mosques in Multan, which belonged to different sects]. Here Turkish invasion and Arab invasion of India becomes "Muslim Invasion". The fact again finds no audience that Arabs fought along with locals against Turks in many towns.
This kind of history and politics is always monolithic, mythological, passionate, a-historical and in extreme cases anti-historical and absolutist. It sees every thing in black and white, all history in India as a perpetual struggle between Hindus and Muslims. A case of mythological flight of Ideas, can be seen in Pakistan, where date of creation of Pakistan was debated amongst so-called historians, "Pakistan came into being , the day first Muslim landed in India [or converted]. This is the extreme mythological thinking, which defies knowledge, logic, rationalism, common sense. It's this mentality by which every Muslim household in Dehli, Gujrat, Mysore becomes Pakistan, thus a target of violence for Hindu nationalists. The Indian Muslim who is killed , is a Pakistani. Than we listen to shouts of "Musalmano ke du isthan, Pakistan ya Qabristan."
Extensions of this thought are visible in Pakistani Patriotism as well, As Jamil Alli says:
Pakistan ka sehri tha mein Pakistan se Pehle bhi—
This is the extreme a-historic and segregationist view of Pakistan. Sindh becomes "bab-ul-Islam", owing to Arab imperialist invader Muhammed bin Qasim, equating Islam essentially with violence and conquest. The same mindset , ironically engages in passionate debate when Hindu right raises the question of invasions and forced conversions. Their mythological mindset doesn't see the logical contradiction in their view of making Sindh "bab-ul-Islam" and than denying invasion related spread of Islam.
As this view is "segregationist" it doesn't accept the Sufi thought, which is humanist and anti-communalist. In Pakistani text books, Wahdat-ul-wajood becomes heresy. Mysticism becomes "bidat".
Depending on the modern sensibility of such communal mind set Pakistan becomes either a "Laboratory of Islam" or "Mumlikat e Khudadad", "the divine state" or "Islam ka Qila", "Fort of Islam".
The communal historical tradition is extremely selective in its reading, it doesn't adopts a critical view of the primary sources. As Romila Thapar , one of the most respected historian of India notes, that the "communal historiography" is essentially a "colonial historiography".
"The colonial interpretation was carefully developed through the nineteenth century. By 1823, the History of British India written by James Mill was available and widely read. This was the hegemonic text in which Mill periodised Indian history into three periods – Hindu civilization, Muslim civilization and the British period. These were accepted largely without question and we have lived with this periodisation for almost two hundred years. Although it was challenged in the last fifty years by various historians writing on India, it is now being reinforced again"
Roma Thapar: History as Politics.
Dr Thaparcontinues, her analysis of communal historiography and later its utilization by Hindu and Moslem nationalists, or communalists. She asserts:
"These were religion-based national groups for whom the identity of an independent nation-state was to derive from the religion of the majority community in the proposed state. Religion-based nationalism, whether Hindu or Muslim, drew directly from the colonial interpretation of Indian history and catered to the ambitions of a section of the Indian middle-class.It projected imagined uniform, monolithic religious communities and gave them a political reality. There was an entwining of communal historiography and religious nationalism. Muslim nationalism aspired to and eventually succeeded in establishing Pakistan. Hindu nationalism is aspiring to make India into a Hindu Rashtra. The two-nation theory was essential to both the Muslim League and the Hindu Mahasabha in the early twentieth century. It continues to be essential to the communal movements of today. These nationalisms were not primarily anti-colonial. They accepted the colonial views of the past and what they were opposed to was the other religious community"
Romila Thapar, History as Politics.
Liberal versions, of this communal mindset exist in both India and Pakistan, the disagreement with fanatics is merely aesthetic, and is representative of the "internal conflict" of the "middle class" base of this type of Nationalism. The liberal card is basically used in terms of "democracy", "nationalism", "cultural nationalism" and even "secularism". Thus we see Hindutava becoming "secular" in name of "Indian nationalism or Hindu nationalism". We see LK Advani'spassionate defence of Jinnah's secularism. A farce in history is abuse of democracy in such debates where in discussions of pre-partition India , terms like Hindu majority and Moslem minority were created. The same issue of "religion based" majority are used in India and Pakistan, in issues eg repealing Hadood laws etc. All this is done in name of "Majority is democracy". Thapar notes:
"The undermining of democracy today lies in insisting that Indian society is constituted of communities identified only by religion.Since in a democracy the wishes of the majority prevail, it is said that the Hindus being the majority community in terms of numbers, should determine public decisions. This of course makes a mockery of democracy, since a democratic majority is not a pre-determined majority and decisions can and do cut across identities of religion and other identities. It is also a refusal to concede that actually Indian society in the past had multiple identities – of caste and social hierarchy, of occupation, of language, of religious sect and of region. Religion was only one amongst these. The focus of each identity was dependent on the issue in question"
Romila Thapar, History as Politics.
So as we see that once again all of it can be narrowed down to "identity". Using religion as "identity", we have seen this basically was a British construction, and through the modernist it seeped into Indian middle class. No one tries to be critical and trace the history of social construction of "Hindu" and "Muslim" identities. Hindu and Muslim are considered "monolithic" groups, homogeneous and in perpetual conflict. A detailed historical analysis will reveal that both theseterms have no meaning at all, Hinduit self has been understood as different things, there was no "monolithic Hindu religion" or Hindu culture" in India. As Romila Thapar notes:
"Despite its initial geographic and ethnic meanings, the term Hindu finally settled as the name of a religion. It has been argued that the early religions of India were essentially religions of orthopraxy of conservative ritual practice, rather than orthodoxy, of conservative belief. Religion in India was a mosaic of juxtaposed cults and sects"
"There was no single label by which they described themselves and they were identified as Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shakta, Lingayat and so on. Belief ranged from animism to the most sophisticated philosophy"
Same thing is true for Muslims, who in India were a very pluralistic thing. The Arabs, Turks, Afghan, etc, often with conflicting interest. Despite the colonial and communal interpretation of history, Majority of Indian Muslims were never outsiders, only elite section of Muslims could be traced to Afghan or Persian, or Arabic roots, majority of Muslims were converts whose interests remained same as their brothers in class. untilthe colonial times when Hindu and Muslim middle class were pushed into a struggle of survival in case of "colonial employments".
Romila Thapar notes:
"This view was further reinforced in the colonial theory that the Muslims of India were foreign and alien. The subject was treated as if Muslims were – one and all – migrants, all claiming descent from the Arabs, Turks, Afghans, Mongols and what have you, who settled in India. This may have held true for a fraction of the elite, but as we know the vast majority of Muslims was Hindus converted to Islam.The few claims to an origin beyond the frontiers of the sub-continent were more often claims to status rather than a statement of ethnic origins. The regional and linguistic variations among Muslims in India gave riseto many cultural and sectarian differences that militated against a uniform, monolithic religious community. Groups labelled as Hindu were also treated as if they were identical and conformed to a single, homogeneous culture"
Romila Thapar, History as Politics.
The religious identity, faded away in non elitist sections of society as Thapar notes:
"The conquest and the resistance were more frequently over territory, political power and status. Religion was not the dominating factor as is clear from studies of these epics. The fading away of formal religious boundaries was particularly evident in the non-elite sections of society – in effect, the majority of the people. But their religion was regarded as inferior and set aside, even by historians. What earlier historians failed to emphasize was that conversion is seldom a break with the previous way of life. It invariably carries many of the culture ways of the earlier identities"
How other identities are more important than the religious identity is once again described by Romila Thapar, explaining the phenomenon of conversions and refuting the Hidutuva's myth of forcefulconversion, she explains how "class character" was base of such conversions and , this character never changed despite changing of religion:
But what is of interest is that where a caste converted, it generally retained its rules of marriage, custom and some rituals and continued to have professional relationships with Hindu castes. When weavers in some North Indian towns converted to Islam, they continued their earlier relationship with Hindu textile merchants. Prior to their conversion they were anyway regarded as low caste and the traders maintained a social distance, and this distance remained.
In defence of History, Romila Thapar
To be continued—–
Filed under: History, India · Tags: Communalism, conquest, conversion, Hindu, History, India, Muslim, Pakistan, Thapar
34 Responses to "History and Interpretation:Communalism and Problems of Historiography"
Dear Shaheryar Ali!!
Once again you did a remarkable work as unciscovering the very important aspects with the true commitment.Hats off to you
Shaheryar Ali.
Keep Discovering The Truth which is very bitter and our people dont want to face it with their False Innocence .
This article frankly is as one sided as the Islamist "Pakistan as the Islamic theocracy" project.
The real Pakistanis, the secularists who Hamza Alavi called the real heirs of Pakistani ideology, are caught in the middle of a foolish ideological war between two groups ie the "islamists" (adnan siddiqui types) and so called "leftists" (shaheryar Ali types). They keep de-constructing each other's arguments.
The problem is with reading history through an ideological lens instead of coming to terms with these events in terms of politics and group conflict.
Then you have people like Haris Azhar who can't respond to arguments (on other boards) but are votaries of divine knowledge which helps them determine truth.
This is where the problem starts -when ideological "anti-imperialists" claim monopoly on the truth as ideological religio-fascists they claim to oppose.
I for one refuse to entertain one sided views of all kinds as the truth. Truth is multi-layered and a conglomerate of views and perspectives. Pakistan's "national mythology" mirrors India's cherished national myths. Both are completely false nor does Muslim separatism or Muslim nationalism that created Pakistan need any historical justification beyond the circumstances that led to it.
Impartial history- like the one written by the great Indian jurist and constitutional historian H M Seervai – makes plain the real facts of partition and they are as unflattering to the Congress types as they are to Mullah types who wish to conjure up an "islamic" justification for a national demand.
And other lie is that this is even remotely relevant to the so called "history debate" on this website.
People who have opposed Shaheryar Ali here do not even remotely ascribe to a history that begins with Muslim invaders or champion Aurangzeb or Mahmud Ghaznavi.
Infact some of these people attempt to define a primordial secular identity for Pakistan.
Others still are not even interested in primordial identities for justification for a state which has physical boundaries.
Thus this entire article does not contribute to the "debate" but merely makes a strawman fallacy and attempts to bring that strawman down.
Sherry wishes that people conform to his narrow compartments. He is utterly unable to appreciate the diversity of views or entertain any view that does not conform to either his ordained leftist view or the islamist view.
This is intolerance.
Ms. Romila Thapar's thesis is convincing and Mr. Shaheryar Ali has edited it well to built his case.
On one level, contention that Sub-continental India within its physical boundaries contains only one nation is just as bogus as was the "two nation theory". The necessity of later arises only when claims are made in favor of the former.
Based on geography alone, the sub-continent could be safely divided into at least seven to ten nation-states. And on ethnic-linguistic basis perhaps into twenty workable states. But the whole mess starts when claims are made in favor of the fallacy of 'Indian nationalism'.
But then again arguably number of denominators, including religion could be used to justify a certain nationhood. A land where religion plays a dominate role in personal and communal lives, religion based nationalism bound to be the outcome.
Mr. Shaheryar's beef is not with the history or its interpretation as such. He just does not want religion to be a basis of a nation-state. In that respect he is right. Now that Muslims of North-east and North-west of the continental India have respectively established their own countries, they should move away from the concept of religion based nationhood and concentrate on expanding the basis of their nationality.
Good piece of work…explaining his concepts of history…Sherry and Balanced comments by PMA….
I agree to your view that…in interpreting history most of us stand to the two extremes….
History is not as described by Sibte Hasan or Aitizaz Ahsan
The word "pakistani" is not exclusive. A Hindu or a Christian born in Pakistan is a Pakistani. The problem is with the inability of both sides to view history in terms of group conflict. It is here that Pakistanis have failed to understand Jinnah's 11th August speech and the 30 odd speeches that seek an inclusive national identity for Pakistan.
I question the relevance of this to the debate you and I have been having with Sherry since neither you nor I ascribe to the views he claims to be de-constructed yet he claims in the first line of this essay that this has some relevance to the debate.
Sibte Hassan and Aitzaz Ahsan have the most balanced views of history when one considers that they reject the established myths of "progressive" and "reactionary" ideas.
Also another major lacuna here is the attempt by Sherry to change the camp of the Sufis.
Braelvis and Sufi of the region that is now Pakistan were wholeheartedly in the Muslim League campaign whereas the straitjacket of deobandis was hand inglove with so called "composite" nationalism camp.
The reason why the latter became dominant in Pakistan was after Pakistan's attempts to play with Islamic state because deobandis provided the doctrinal basis for law, the sufis and braelvis didn't. Hence they receded.
How is that to be done? Speaking of India, (and I am sure there must be variations of the theme in Pakistan) there are nations contained within each separate sub caste and defining themselves through manufactured genealogies and mythologies.
A correct or even workable definition of 'nationality' is a mare's nest in the sub-continental context. The problem is now globalized with large migrant communities everywhere in the west speaking different languages following different faiths and of myriad colours and genes.
The trend universally is towards ever narrower definitions of nation. Look at Wales and Scotland. We have far too much of the nationalities problem in India. There is a desire for political unity but not for union. 'National Integration' the much propagated slogan of free India has led only to a tiny deracinated super strata in the metropolitan towns. No one goes about trying to create a universal pan Indian blend. It is easier to do so in Pakistan I suppose but it wont be easy.
Alaistair Lamb was it who famously wrote that had it not been for a two nation idea which created the two dominant cultural discourses for India and Pakistan, the real trend would have been balkanization all over India.
The "Hindu" and "Muslim" narrative created all India affinity between and across disparate sub- cultural groups.
I know it is sacrilege to say it but India survives today because of it 85 percent majority which gives it a certain cultural character.
In Pakistan the Muslim majority could have supplied the same unifying factor had the religion not been coopted by the state becoming a divisive force instead of a unifying one.
I haven't come across that particular view of Alistair Lamb but it is an interesting perspective.
India is undoubtedly a Hindu country. It was so and continues to be. Walter Lawrence of the ICS in his 'The India we Served' written (I think) around 1920 said the same thing, and he was almost an honorary Hindu. But the dominant discourse of India though inevitably based on a Hindu mindset is not that of the RSS though it continues to reflect a Brahminical way of thinking.
In short, Brahminical atomism ensures that there are multiple discourses at play, always. Vis-a-vis Muslims, opinion has shifted from saying that they are all Pakistanis to a grudging acceptance that perhaps only some are.
Indian opinion is not Pakistan centred; In fact Indians outside the North and West are rather fed up with what they see as Delhi's obsession with Pakistan. In the atomistic discourse that subcontinental modes of thought inspire Indians spend their time arguing and agonizing over their issues that have no practical impact on their lives.
National Integration the big catchword of yesteryear was directed towards linguistic and regional differences among Indians. That issue still remains but it no longer overshadows the discourse. Narratives of growth have replaced it.
Alastair Lamb is quite wrong. The Muslim Hindu problem remains but it does not dominate. It is one of the many problems that India faces. And the 'imagined' standoff in some minds with Muslims does not in any way mask the other tensions. Rather India functions with all the tensions together and finds ways to carry on.
I actually wrote an article while back where I came to many of the conclusions that Thapar does. I have submitted slightly edited version to RR and hopefuly it will help Sherry see that his attempt to put it as a zero sum is not all that true.
Excellent comments by all – add to it. we need to discuss and debate these issues for understanding things -
YLH – your article will be published soon
Something as contentious as religio-cultural identity can only be useful if it is kept vague. India's Hindu identity is vague in my opinion and therefore is a strong binding force.
Pakistan's Islamic identity does not work because it is too specific and too absolutist …hence it becomes divisive.
Infact if you ask me, this is the reason Muslims can only accept a pork eating whisky drinking anglicized barrister as a leader despite his apparent irreligiousity but will never unite behind a religious figure like Azad or Madni or Thanvi.
The reference for Lamb is page 3 and page 4 of "introductory" of "incomplete partition".
"The two nation scheme, which is usually seen as the realisation of the vision of M.A.Jinnah, preserved a great deal of the political integrity of the Indian subcontinent which had emerged under British rule: it is thus foolish, as many Indian politicians still do, to deride it. The alternative, it is more than probable, would have been a Gadarene rush towards 'Balkanization'."
Infact the next line is even more enlightening:
"Had it not been for the Kashmir problem, it is not difficult to argue, the achievement of the Two Nation concept might well have been greater, the creation out of the British Raj not so much of two new discrete dominions as a pair of twin dominions evolving towards each other instead of increasingly separate directions"
Thanks for contributions.
We are sick of continous reference of Jinnah's speech of august….
If there is
Pakistan Movement – jinnah = A piece of land where the feudal muslim elite can entertain their rule under the umbrella of anyone who let them play…
Jinnah as a lawyer fought the case of these people very well….
Why we are continously blaming the Mullahs …they never had got a chance to rule this country…though blessed with a chance to do the same in Afghanistan…and now they want the same here in Pakistan…it's threatening for this elite…not we the common people…as for us…Is this really make some difference to rule by them or the fanatic Mullahs
It is the problem with PTH or YLH…every debate whether started with any point comes at the same…Jinnah speech of August….Seervai and pseudo-secularism…..
hayyer48: Being a Pakistani I mostly concern myself with issues facing Pakistan. I generally do not read much about post-1947 India and therefore would not be able to add much in that respect.
Pakistan does not have the religious 'cast system' as defined in India, although there are many other socio-economic strata in the country. Pakistan west of Indus has strong tribal affinity structure. East of Indus, particularly in Punjab, 'brathari system' brings people together. As a polity Pakistan is still in its lower developmental stages.
Ideologues on the left and right are trying to pull and push the society in their own respective directions. Rightists and Ultra-rightists want to establish their version of religion based political system. They do have presence on the ground and thus have been able to create havoc and even dangerous situation in Pakistan. On the other hand the leftists and particularly ultra-leftists have very little presence on the ground. Most so called leftist, if given the litmus test will not pass as Pakistan is mostly a conservative society.
Major divisive forces is Pakistan are the ethnic-nationalism and religion. Since we do not have an over arching language like english as in the case of UK, we remain a divided nation. One would think that we are a 97% percent Muslim nation therefore religion could be a uniter, but it is not. Each religious school of thought wants to see its own supremacy. During the month of Moharrum we often kill members of our Shia minority. Ahmidia sect has been declared non-muslim. Hell we are unable to decide even our day of Eid. That is more of a reason why religion should be a personal matter and not a state matter. Yes we have all the potentials to be a strong and cohesive nation, but we are not.
I hope I have addressed the points raised by you.
Hussain saani,
This claim that you make my friend is disproved by the fact that feudals as a political group joined in at the very last moment of the Pakistan movement and that the Pakistan movement was the movement of the Muslim Salariat.
If you read Romilla Thapar's view above you will realize that the concept of communal nationalism was itself a bourgeoisie concept not a feudal one. It did not suit the feudal elite of Punjab etc because of the close alliance of feudal landlords of all communities in the Unionist Party. This is why Sikandar Hayat, sir fazli hussain and khizer hayat tiwana all stood tooth and nail against Muslim League and after 1944 Muslim League-communist Party alliance. It was only in 1945-1946 that Muslim feudals switched parties after realizing the overwhelming trend in Punjab.
Your view has been rejected by historians both in India and the west. It so happened that the feudals of Punjab found it very easy to subvert the Salariat leadership after Jinnah's death in cahoots with civil military bureaucracy because the salariat had no real indigenous base in West Pakistan.
PTH stands for the Pakistan that was conceived by its founder Mohammad Ali Jinnah – a democratic and just republic where the state had no business to meddle with religion. Yes the majority was Muslim so it was obvious that they would have their freedoms but Jinnah also assured that the non-Muslims would enjoy their rights under the laws of the land. This is quite clear.
The Mullahs – most of them – opposed Pakistan and called it Napakistan. It is on record. Once the country was created they started imposing their views on a polity that they never owned. Hypocrisy of the worst kind…
Now if you call it a problem of PTH then I think we are ready to own this "problem".
Keep visiting -
The writing of any history is coloured by the ideological bent of the writer and the power (state/organisation/religion) he is representing. In that sense, official Indian history or Paki history or ML history is no difference.
Shahryar babu obviously is a great admirer of Comrade Thapar so he sees her version of history as sacrosanct. But then if "class character was the base of conversion" as she claims why did not the entire Hindoo low class convert to egalitarian Islam?
Your point regarding MAJ (pbuh)'s vision for an inclusive Pakistan is valid. But the question is what if the majority of Pakistan decide to ditch that vision and opt for a religion-based system, what do you do then?
Such a system would have to have its limits… Pakistan's constitution has an immutable fundamental rights chapter… which no number of Islamic injunctions can override.
Similarly it is a signatory to the Human Rights Charter… which it will have to implement ultimately whether the majority in Pakistan accepts it or not.
Democracy must not be confused with the tyranny of the majority.
I did not mean to imply that Muslims in Pakistan have a caste system. I apologize if I gave that impression.
My point was that subcontinental society is unable to get over a tendency to constant differentiate. In Indian Muslims the caste system makes itself evident by the divisions carried over by the converted classes. In UP for example the weavers are all Ansaris-no connection to the Ansar of Medina but going by that name nevertheless. Muslims of Rajput origin in present day Haryana were called Rangar and distinguished themselves as such. The biradiris that you mention continue to this day, even in India. Muslim Gujjar tribes and Rajputs Muslims cannot even vote for a single political party as a group, unless there is a Hindu offset, and even then it doesn't work. The Ashraf/Ajlaf distinction is still in play.
Even among Muslims claiming foreign origin there was and is, in India at least, a caste system, with Sayyids naturally claiming top spot. Ahmad Ali's poignant novel'Twilight in Delhi' set in early 2oth century Delhi shows how a Sayyid is unwilling to marry his daughter into a Mughal family because it is inferior. Ghalib himself took pride in his Mughal origins. I presumed that in Pakistan too, these 'casteist' tendencies persist. I know at least one family from UP whose members are all of dark brown hue but claim nevertheless that they have never married outside their extended Pathan family. Fake genealogies must be at work.
I am aware of real differences between members and sects of one religious community. We have too many of them in India-and that was part of my argument on the difficulty of defining nationhood in the sub-continent. Thank you for your comments though.
YLH:Thanks for the reference. The book is probably unavailable in India. I shall try to get it from abroad.
Actually the two nation theory did not originate with Jinnah, or even Mohammad Ali at Cambridge in 1930. Two right wing Hindus, Savarkar and Lala Lajpat Rai enunciated it in the mid twenties. The rush to balkanization is only put off I think not cancelled. Good political management has staved it off in India and it almost worked in Kashmir, except for the blunders post 1983. If the RSS and the Sangh Parivar can be held off I have no doubt that the postponement will extend indefinitely. No doubt Pakistan's problem is one of good political management. Kashmir has bedevilled relations from the start, but as I posted elsewhere on this site, if Kashmir did not exist, then perhaps some people would have invented it.
I find your comment intriguing that Muslims cannot find leadership outside an irreligious personality like Jinnah. It is not commonly known that Azad was wildly popular on the basis of his Islamic discourse before 1920. He was in fact the first one to be called Qaid e Azam, losing the title soon thereafter when the Khilafat movement started.
Indian Muslims also rejected Jinnah in favour of the Ali brothers, both profoundly religious, when they in alliance with Gandhi launched their Khilafat movement. Bacha Khan in the frontier was a popular leader with his land reforms and Sheikh Abdullah became a popular leader because of the sweetness of 'qirat' during 'tillawat' of the Quran. He too had a leftist agenda but was firmly rooted in religion.
Jinnah's rise is a historical anomaly. He could overshadow everyone in the Congress and had no reason to bow and scrape before Gandhi, yet a party that claimed a secular agenda had no use for a secular Muslim or for secular politics.
Had Liaqat Ali Khan not gone begging Jinnah after the failure of the Round Table Conferences to resume leadership of Indian Muslims and the Muslim League this great man would have remained a footnote in the history of the freedom movement.
Gandhi sought to unite Muslims and Hindus on a religious discourse. It is perfectly possible however for them to combine as practicing believers of their faiths on a secular one, or on a platform of a shared agnosticism and cultural commonalities.
Another nuance…. Lala Lajpat Rai had actually called partition in the 1920s… Savarkar wanted the Hindu nation to dominate the Muslim nation and was opposed to partition (hence Hindu retribution against what they thought was Gandhi's weakness in conceding Pakistan).
Whatever little popularity Azad had was destroyed by the disastrous Khilafat movement that he and Ali brothers partook in …. infact, Khilafat movement destroyed the credibility of Mullahs in general because the Muslims in general came to believe that Mullahs would always be duped by Gandhi and company. Till then Jinnah was firmly in the Indian Nationalist camp so there was no question of Muslims choosing Jinnah over these religious divines at the time.
I am afraid I can't agree that Azad or Ali Brothers or Shaikh Abdullah won the kind of popularity Jinnah managed from 1937 onwards… Bacha Khan was popular with only a fraction of Pushtuns… Shaikh Abdullah was not the sole spokesman of even the Kashmiris … popular leader no doubt he was.
Personally I don't know of this "Quaid-e-Azam" title being given to Azad business… but the fact is that the kind of wide ranging electoral and political mobilization that Jinnah managed amongst the Muslims is unparalleled anywhere in the world in the 20th century.
The point I was trying to make was that had Jinnah been religious… he would be a shia or a sunni or something else and would therefore be rejected.
anywhere in the Muslim world
"He could overshadow everyone in the Congress and had no reason to bow and scrape before Gandhi, yet a party that claimed a secular agenda had no use for a secular Muslim or for secular politics."
Well said. I am glad to see such realization in the land that has disowned Jinnah the secularist.
I am glad to see such realization in the land that has disowned Jinnah the secularist.
It is a fact that increasingly the greatness of MAJ (pbuh) is being recognised in the country which disowned him.
This entire debate as guys are calling it, has no purpose or relevance or is their any
pls state
hayyer48: At the risk of moving too far from the subject of the original post, I would say that among Indian Muslims I too have seen the type of 'caste system' that you have mentioned. In Pakistan, however, since almost every one is Muslim, the 'caste system' is not religious in nature except when it comes to being so called 'syed'. Even though Islam pronounces equality of mankind, this particular group somehow claims genealogical spiritual superiority over other Muslims! Outside Punjab most prevalent is the 'tribal' configuration. But even in Punjab the social 'arrangement' is somewhat different than what one finds among Indian Muslims. For instance in Punjab, you will find Kashmiri Brathary (Sharif brothers), Pathan Barathary (Imran Khan), Mian Brathary, Awan Brathary etc. etc. It is more of an ethnic/tribal configuration than religious one. In case of Pakistan every one claims to be 'significant' and divisions are more ethnicity based than 'caste based' as in India. So I would say that Pakistan has its share of divisive forces but they are different in nature than those encountered in India. If Pakistanis some how try to over come their ethnic biases and prejudices then may be they could also minimise their internal frictions and work together for the betterment of their country.
PMA: You are absolutely right. I had some experience of the biradiris when I visited Pakistan some 17 years ago.
The Kashmiri biradiri in Pakistan is composed of various sections not all of them Kashmiri. Nawaz Sharif's family I believe actually hails from Poonch, and while Poonch has an ethnic Kashmiri group, Muslims there are divided into Pahari or Rajput, Gujjar and Kashmiri communities who vote separately.
The Mirpuris also I think while claiming membership of the Kashmiri biradiri in the UK are actually Punjabis, with ofcourse the usual divisions.
When Sheikh Abdullah split the Muslim Conference by setting up the National Confernce he was not the sole spokesman, so to speak, of Kashmiri Muslims. Nor was he really so right up to 1947. Surprisingly, after 1947 his stock rose surprisingly as the leaders of the Muslim Conference group migrated to Pakistan. He almost became a sole spokesman in Kashmir though not for the whole state. His popularity was phenomenal after his land reforms. It dipped only in 1975 after his accord with Indira Gandhi.
Even Jinnah on his visit to Kashmir in 1945 could not compare though he drew a substantial attendance. The National Conference was forced to boycott him after he snubbed them.
But I take your point that Jinnah did almost become the sole spokesman of Indian Muslims after the world war started. Even then I wonder if he had the kind of blind support that the Sheikh won, for a time, in Kashmir.
Point proved….. everyone agreed ….??? right … go collect ur nobel prizes!!!!
Fantastic work.


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Stretching over 1,000 acres, Ohio's Mohican State Park offers plenty of opportunity to let loose and explore the great outdoors. Outdoor activities include hiking, fishing, camping and mountain biking. For guests who'd like to remain close to Mohican Lodge, we offer plenty of on-site activities to fill your stay.
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What kind of substrate do you use for your box turtle?
At the moment my hatchling is in orchid bark mixed with organic soil.
I try to mist the enclosure often to keep it moist and humid but I fear everything is drying out.
Any tips? What do you use? How do you keep the humidity up?
Any information would be most grateful.
Thank you!


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Divers relax in the afternoon sun outside Only One Apnea Center, the only free diving facility in Sharm El Sheikh. With its perfect location and facilities for all level of free divers, the center is often host to international free diving competitions and world record attempts.
Egypt ; Arabic: مصر, Miṣr or Máṣr) is a country mainly in North Africa, with the Sinai Peninsula forming a land bridge in Western Asia. Covering an area of about 1,010,000 square kilometers (390,000 sq mi), Egypt borders the Mediterranean Sea to the north, the Gaza Strip and Israel to the northeast, the Red Sea to the east, Sudan to the south and Libya to the west.Egypt is one of the most populous countries in Africa and the Middle East. The great majority of its estimated 82 million live near the banks of the Nile River, in an area of about 40,000 square kilometers (15,000 sq mi), where the only arable agricultural land is found. The large areas of the Sahara Desert are sparsely inhabited. About half of Egypt's residents live in urban areas, with the majority spread across the densely-populated centres of greater Cairo, Alexandria and other major cities in the Nile Delta.Egypt is famous for its ancient civilization and some of the world's most famous monuments, including the Giza pyramid complex and its Great Sphinx. The southern city of Luxor contains numerous ancient artifacts, such as the Karnak Temple and the Valley of the Kings. Egypt is widely regarded as an important political and cultural nation of the Middle East.


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|New Living Translation (NLT)
|New International Version (NIV)
|5 You younger men, accept the authority of the elders. And all of you, serve each other in humility, for "God sets himself against the proud, but he shows favor to the humble."
|5 Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
|Scripture quotations marked NLT are taken from the Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright 1996. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Wheaton, Illinois 60189. All rights reserved. (New Living Translation - The Bible Online)
|Scripture quoted by permission. Quotations designated (NIV) are from THE HOLY BIBLE: NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®. NIV®. Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by Biblica. All rights reserved worldwide. (New International Version Bible Online)


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color monitor(n.) A display monitor capable of displaying many colors. In contrast, a monochrome monitor can display only two colors -- one for the background and one for the foreground. Color monitors implement the RGB color model by using three different phosphors that appear red, green, and blue when activated. By placing the phosphors directly next to each other, and activating them with different intensities, color monitors can create an unlimited number of colors. In practice, however, the real number of colors that any monitor can display is controlled by the video adapter.
Color monitors based on CRT technology employ three different techniques to merge phosphor triplets into pixels:
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NaturalPoint SmartNAV 3 hands-free mouse falls a little short
The NaturalPoint SmartNAV 3 allows you to control your computer cursor without using your hands — an obvious boon for those who suffer from debilitating pain or hampered mobility. Instead, you plug in the USB sensor, put it atop your monitor and attach a disposable dot to the center of your forehead, which allows the sensor to track your movements. Just swivel your head around and the cursor will follow suit. Clicking isn't so easy, unfortunately, though NaturalPoint offers a few different methods, such as a foot pedal.
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Mostly, I just flat out don't trust the government to run about anything, especially some thing so big! Obama can't even let the law run it's course & has by decree extended portions of it illegally! Why the Congress or Senate hasn't taken action on this.<quoted text>
Could you explain exactly what the Obama Care that you don't give diddly about is? I don't know diddly about it and neither does anyone I know. I do know that there is not one idea or decision that Obama has made that I agree with. I'm so sick of his stuttering speeches, that while I like to keep informed (thus the reason I asked you the question} I've made plans to meet with friends at 6:00 pm. for dinner.
And then the IRS is supposed to oversee it!
Just another reason not to trust them.