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|Stellar Nursery in Orion
Well said, Marge. I think it is OK for the original poster in your first paragraph to very much disagree with the person who posted, BUT, as you say later on, with your CCBC examples, I believe one can disagree without being disagreeable. It is when we listen to those with a different viewpoint that we really learn something, not when we just keep hearing our own thoughts and ideas echoed back to us.
Thanks Cheryl. While flame wars may forever be with us, I am trying to remind myself as well not to redline so quickly!
I know exactly what you're talking about -- I had a similar reaction to that same listserv. At first I thought I was taking the dismissal personally, given the issue at hand, but I still had trouble with what was said even after taking my personal feelings into account.
You've hit exactly what was frustrating to read: "All ideas are welcome" and yet, an idea was immediately shut-down. A simple, "Thank you for the thought, I appreciate it, but our library has decided not to move in that direction" would have been just as effective, without losing the chance for a dialogue to continue. I feel like I don't want to respond with anything else since I might be dismissed as well.
I've spent at least twenty minutes reading and re-reading both the original interactions and your post, trying to wrap my head around how we can better disagree, but also how we can better communicate in general. Those discussion guidelines are wonderful, and a great help in remembering how to be cordial to one another, no matter the circumstances.
I don't know if this "trash-and-burn" kind of mentality that is really out there nationally also kind of kick-started me on this whole thing...but I found it profoundly disturbing and very sad for our profession when I read the exchange. And nothing in the post for the idea offered was at all inflammatory. It felt like someone is walking along whistling a tune, and somebody in an SUV who detests the song, runs the person down. Gack!
"How can we help non-Christians understand that being a Christian doesn't mean living up to a standard of goodness, but rather means trusting a good God to do for us what we can't do for ourselves? As writers we have a unique opportunity to tell the world what it's all about. In our stories and in our characters, we can show what it really means to be a follower of Christ, and that means
Jean,

Lots to ponder here. This year, I entered a Christian picture book manuscript in the SCBWI Writing Contest. The first critique statement said, "Religious setting will limit market." Should I change my setting? I don't think so. Should I let that stop me from submitting it? I don't think so. Do other areas of the manuscript need work? Yes. That's how
you pose good questions, Jean. I am consciously trying to weave the theme of truth speaking into my WIP with the hope that it points to the Lord. Remains to be seen though if I accomplish that. Hopefully you and other Christian friends will keep me on target for that. THis sounds like an excellent book. May I borrow it when you are done, or should I just get my own copy because you don't want
Good for you, LInda!

We writers have so many opportunities to be salt and light without dehydrating or blinding our readers.

Blessings,
Jean
Me, too, Carol. We pray and write, and hope the light of Christ shines through.

I have this book in Kindle on my phone, so I can't loan it to you. But you can get it through Lighthouse Publishing (NC) or Amazon.

Thanks,
Jean
These are great questions.If we claim to be Christian writers, we should not have to water down our stories. My latest venture in writing a novel seems to be bogged down with this thought:"How much of the events of the life of this family can reflect Christian ideals?"
Dear QS -

How much? I understand that depends upon which publishing houses you are targeting.

I say write the story and LET the family show the same level of "Christianity" that you yourself would show.

Then search for a publisher.

Blessings,
Jean
Thanks for sharing this post. It has a lot of good resources in it. Blessings,
Deborah H. Bateman-Author
Deborah, It does have great resources and it's a timely topic. It seems online courtesy and professionalism is becoming less and less visible.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting!
Great post Karen! And congratulations on being RAOK blitzed today!
Because of my job I get to travel around to conferences and meetings and talk with librarians all over the place. Wherever I am I spend a lot of time discussing advocacy and the importance of helping members of a community understand the value of teen services. We frequently talk about the image that people have of librarians and how that image is often not based in reality. We also discuss how hard it is to change how people see librarians and libraries.
During these trips and in these conversations, it often feels a bit strange because I'll be talking to someone about library and librarian image and that person will be wearing a book t-shirt with a cute saying, or book earrings or necklace (or both), or a book themed-watch, or….. you get the idea. I don't believe I can say during these conversations, "Have you ever thought about the image you portray by wearing book related clothing and accessories?" Even though I really really really want to.
I know it's fun to have these pieces of clothing and accessories. Sure, it's entertaining to see them at conferences. But in the outside world when we are working with community members and need to be seen as professionals who are knowledgable about teens, the world they live in, and the way to help connect them to an array of "stuff" (from people to materials to each other to librarians), the book-themed clothing and accessories just has to go. I'd say when at work, whether hanging out with teens or at a meeting with the town council, even wearing just one piece of jewelry that has a book theme is not going to help you gain the respect you deserve.
Think about it: if we want people of all ages in the community to stop thinking of libraries as a place just for physical materials, then we have to stop promoting the library that way. If we want community members to see librarians as well-educated in all things teen and as people who have a strong understanding of education, youth development, and so on, then we have to stop dressing up in book-wear. Cute, book-related attire is not the way to get the message across, to anyone and everyone, that the library is a place that supports teens in their acquisition of skills of all kinds and is a strong and important educational link in the community
For those who know me and are asking, "Would she say the same thing about cute technology-based clothing and jewelry?" the answer is "Yes, I would." Anything that focuses on one aspect of what a library staff member is passionate about, whether it be a social media t-shirt or a book necklace is a bad idea. Just think about who that clothing or accessory connects to in the community. It likely only connects to one portion of who you serve – teens or adults. If wearing book-themed attire is common in your library, what does that say to teens who are not book focused?
Making sure that community members take libraries and librarians seriously is a key aspect of the job of all library staff members. It requires being able to talk about what teens get out of what we do for and with them. It requires an understanding of youth development, education, literacy, and more. It requires holding back on tendencies to show your passion through clothing and accessories. It requires knowing what not to wear.
Innovation in the clothing of those working with teens doesn't mean dressing like a teen and it doesn't mean wearing cute theme-based pieces. Instead, it means getting outside of the library and book box in your dress and thinking about how you present the value of teen services to community members through your wardrobe. It may seem crazy to call this innovative, but if you've seen as many library-themed outfits as I have you know that it certainly is. Take the plunge and be professionally innovative in your wardrobe. It will be good for you, and for the teens that you serve.Add a Comment
Thanks to everyone who commented yesterday, especially the agents who popped in. Obviously this was an upsetting situation for everyone to read about.
A lot of commenters suggested that publishing is a small world and that the mistake this author made could really be career damaging. I'm not so sure of that. there seems to be a frequently held view that there's this publishing black list and we agents can't wait to drop you there. We're human too and while we can certainly become annoyed and angry in the most humanly way possible, we can also understand mistakes and misunderstandings.
Anyway, I did hear from the author who first asked the question and wanted to post an update. She was really surprised by my answer and the feedback by others on the blog. What she said was, "though I see clearly now how big a mistake I made, at the time, I expected a response more like 'We agents can't represent every genre, and sometimes a writer will take on two agents.' I assure you while I did know I needed to tell them about one another, I was just afraid of missing an opportunity because they are so rare, and that was cowardly of me, but I was shocked at the overall response I received from you."
Since yesterday morning she was able to get in touch with one of the agents and explain the situation. The agent was incredibly gracious and while she has no experience in both genres is going to continue working with the author on the one book (genre) they've signed for. I did not hear how the other call went, but I do have a sense that all is probably well. If not, I'm a strong believer that if the book is meant to be published she'll find another agent for it.
The author confessed to me that she's sick to learn of her own deceit and hoping to remedy things as quickly as possible. She also hopes that I don't see this as a black mark on her. Trust me, I think we've all been in situations in life we're we've had that sickening pit in our stomach for something we've done whether intentionally or unintentionally and it's not a feeling I want to wish on anyone.
I think Colleen Lindsay said it perfectly yesterday in her comment when she said "oy." I would probably say "uff da" there isn't much else to say. It's an annoying situation and if it happened to me I would be annoyed, but since I only offer representation to projects I'm truly passionate about I also know I wouldn't want to give up a book or a client whose voice I loved for one indiscretion.
I think the author has learned a lesson. In fact I know she has. In her email she said, "I will certainly slow down and think, be less reactionary, and more careful with my career."
And I think that's a lesson we can all take with us.
I didn't comment yesterday but my initial reaction was that this writer made an honest mistake with absolutely no ill intention behind it. In the pressure to find and agent and to ultimately publish, I can see why a writer would want to pursue any opportunity she/he might get and to also avoid closing any doors. Clearly her situation should be avoided, but she has my compassion - that's a horrible position to be in. Sounds like she's put her big girl panties on and is handling it with honesty.
I agree - she has my sympathy as well. This is a teaching moment, not only for her, but also for all of us who read your blog. Thank you for posting the follow-up and for your candid response.
"I was just afraid of missing an opportunity because they are so rare,"
This is why I don't fault this author. Sure, it was a HUGE mistake, but an understandable one. Opportunities for representation and/or publication are extremely rare and difficult to obtain. It's extremely tempting to grab the first one (perhaps the first one after many years of trying) and run like heck.
I'm not sure agents comprehend the emotions involved, but I do appreciate the ones who really try.
I was put off by all the negativity in the comment trail yesterday, and was glad for this new post today.
People, it's life. You do stupid things sometimes without even realizing it. Agents do stupid things too. So do editors. While I've never done this, I've done other things that were cringe-worthy. When you know better, you do better.
Good luck to this author, I hope you sell both projects.
I wondered at the author's motivation and whether it had to do with the disparate genres. I had asked a similar question on a few blogs that was never answered. So when my first manuscript was different than most of my work, I queried an incredibly small list of agents that represented that work and stuff I hoped to write in the future. Certainly made for a quick querying process.
Well, Im glad the author made the call. That couldn't have been an easy thing to do, and I'm glad the outcome was positive.
We all do stupid things at times. The only possible damage control is to own the error and 'fess up. That's always good PR. Trying to justify an action, or outright denial, just make the hole we've dug even deeper.
Gotta agree with Lynn M. I started to write yesterday along this line as well but then thought, hmmm, best stay out of the fray. But I'd be willing to cut her some slack. She made a goof and the fact she was conflicted by it is strong proof of an honest character inadvertantly making a bad move and then in a moral quandary as to how to mend it.
I'm a bit confused then. What if you didn't love the other book? What if you had absolutely no interest in repping that genre? I mean, I understand that she should have told both agents that she was working with the other in another genre, but some of the response to this conversation seems to imply that the author should assume that the agent will want to rep both books. What if they don't? Christian fiction is pretty specialized. Agents make it abundantly clear that they don't rep certain genres and in fact get pretty aggravated when people send it in anyway. They're very, very clear about it.
So what is the answer here? I don't think this author has anything to feel sick about. If agents are going to specialize, I think the authors have a right to find the right agent for the right job. You can't expect the author to stop writing in the genres they like. If an agent is only going to rep books they feel passionate about, should the author have the right to find those agents with that passion?
I don't understand it why anyone should be annoyed.
Important lesson and I'm repeating it here: "I will certainly slow down and think, be less reactionary, and more careful with my career."
(big sigh) Unfortunately, email makes it way too easy to be reactionary. I've learned to write some of those messages and place them in the draft file to ponder over before sending. Almost 100% of them are eventually deleted.
Querying is like sending a cover letter to a job at two different companies. One company may give you the offer, the other may not.
In a world where agents reject almost 99% of everything, why can't a writer query two different projects to multiple agents and let the best agent win?
Anon 12:04:
The issue was the lack of communication. If she got one agent for her Christian fiction let's say and that Agent said she was only interested in Christian fiction then typically agent and author would agree that she should seek representation for her other work elsewhere.
The problem is not necessarily that she had two agents, it's that she had not informed either agent of the situation and assumed that neither agent would want to represent both works.
Anon 12:24:
Authors should always query widely. Authors should also use any offer of representation as leverage to find the best agent for them. That being said, signing agreements with two different agents without communicating that to the agents is very, very different from querying.
That's great - she's realized the profound stupidity of her duplicity.
But it really makes me wonder, why does she get a bye on this?
Consider the flip side: she self-identifies as a "Christian" (granted, a big tent) but one generally defined by telling others to adhere to narrowly constructed notions of morality, the right to hold forth on others lives, the belief that they are, in essence, "better" (or, holier than thou.)
***Honestly*** it's both telling and nauseating to read about an author who claims to adheres to these tenets IN HER WORK, given many decades of aggressive and demoralizing actions by the same Christian demographic towards non-Christians. i.e., the lengths to which Christians have gone to demonize gay marriage, and roll back abortion rights for women.
Basically, the message this Christian person puts forth (and that is, apparently supported here) is, "It's okay FOR ME to lie and dissemble - while trying to publish Christian stories - because I have been ... " (whatever Christian people do ... dunk themselves in water?)
I realize this comment is going to read as troll'ish. However, if we're going to have a discussion that references hot-button topics like Christianity in relationship to business accountability, IMO a blithe "Oh, I'm sorry" doesn't cut it.
Where's the connection between her Christian/ gospel based writing, and the obvious distain she has for basic notions of honesty? Not to mention common sense. Oi/oy indeed.
I'm with Lynn up there.
I recently landed myself an agent who only represents one of the genres I write in. I had another manuscript ready to query but before I did, I asked her if it would be cool and even said I'd be willing to take on a pen name to make things work out. She replied that a pen name wasn't necessary and I was free to submit to whomever I wanted with my other work.
Lesson of the day: When in doubt, just ask.
Thank you for following up on that last post. It is nice to see the author get some forgiveness. If people didn't mess up, there would be no editors. The editor of life is reflection. If you glance back for a moment, you'll have an easier time going forward.
She learned from her actions. Contacting you indicates that she wants to move forward, unafraid of admitting wrongs. I wish her all the best and give kudos for coming clean.
Draven Ames
Well, I wasn't going to wade in, but I realized I have something important I want to add.
Wow. What a writer this person must be. Truly.
First, I'm really glad that the situation is resolved, and everything got all cleared up. That's good.
But what struck me the most is: this writer got two agents on two separate books in two separate genres. Wow. Her writing must be terrific. Whoever represents her is darn lucky. Yes, there was an honest mistake and all that, but it's pretty easily cleared up. The sad part is the agent who won't get to represent her.
To the writer, if you're reading this: What I hope you take out of this the most is a feeling of intense pride. Two agents wanted to work with you! That's just terrific.
I very much look forward to hearing about your career, because I suspect you will be extremely successful.
Cheering you on from the sidelines - Good luck!
Anon @12:35 says this:
"...IMO a blithe "Oh, I'm sorry" doesn't cut it..."
Oh, please, I gather you are a Christian because there is nothing like a Christian to point out the faults of other Christians. If she was acting holier than thou she WOULDN'T care or even realize her blunder. She realized she made a mistake. And then she FIXED it. End of story.
And if your biggest problem in life is a random person's (a person who you don't personally know) supposed "blithe apology," then I pity you.
Guess what, if you want mercy in life you have to be willing to offer some, as well.
Does the agent represent the person or the work?
If the "Christian only" agent had said, "you must never in your career write anything that wasn't religious," would that have been fair?
If she had said to that agent, "since you only represent a narrow range of work, I will submit different styles of work elsewhere," perhaps that would have been more open, but this is a business, not a friendship pact. The agent does not bind herself to represent no other writer, why would the writer bind herself to seek no other agent when the one she has is so limited in her interests?
If she had said, "I only represent non-fiction," would it be wrong for your correspondent to seek another agent who would represent her fiction?
Apart from all of that, she obviously has some talent if both agents wish to represent her.
I just keep thinking that this whole issue could have been *easily* avoided with some internet research and an email to a helpful agent blog...before signing the contracts.
To anonymous who said, "That's great - she's realized the profound stupidity of her duplicity."
Wow. The many Christians I've met aren't half as judgmental as you were in your post. It's not kind to pick on the author's religious views. You may not share them, but you don't need to bash others.
I am a devout Christian and have dear friends who are homosexual. Jesus is about love. He's the one who hung out with prostitutes and "sinners," loving them where they were at--loving us when we are not perfect, not after we become perfect.
That's the God I believe in. Cut the human being some slack.
I was glad to see the follow up post and see the culmination. She asked for guidance, got it, and *listened* to the advice.
I missed yesterday's column but caught up on it now. Thanks for teaching the rest of us. Now, if only I could get one date to the prom:)
This whole - trying to find an agent, and trying to impress one with the most appropriate query letter is maddening.
Do agents ever read new writer's work when the writer has chosen to share pieces of their story on a blog? I just started one simply to find out the general public's interest in my story, and writing style.
I'm very unsure how much time to spend looking for an agent when self publishing seems to be such a simpler option.
I'd love for you to take a peek at my blog and offer a suggestion or four.
Jennifer Place
Jessica, thanks for a lovely follow-up post. I'd never want to imply that agents can't be forgiving; but the suggestion to tell one agent and not the other concerned me.
Now, however, it sounds like the author is on a great track--not only to avoid these sorts of mistakes in future, but to getting some good work out there.
To the writer in question: it takes a lot of intestinal fortitude to face an "oops" like that. From what Jessica says, you did it with class. I applaud, and wholeheartedly wish you the best with your books.
L.C. Blackwell
Neftwink/Jennifer Place: For the sake of your dreams, I beg you--just THINK for a moment how your words come across.
Your comment reads as, "I suspect you're useless to me, but I'll condescend to let you serve my needs. However, you have to do all the work of forging a connection with me, because I can't be bothered."
I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your discussion of these situations. I'm learning so much and yes seeing where I've made some mistakes! It's amazing the level of details that matter from someone who's inside the business!
I had to smile at the comments from agents who said, "why didn't she just sign with Rachelle Gardner?" Um, probably because superstar Ms. Gardner had rejected her? That "let them eat cake" attitude is just silly.
You think she signed with an agent who had never sold anything because that was her first choice? It's rough out here in the trenches. I think it was a very natural mistake and everybody is wayyyy too judgmental about it. I wish her lots of success and I really want to read that Arsenic and Old Lace book.
Anne R. Allen:
I don't think anyone said "why didn't she just sign with" I think there were a lot of comments and the author herself suggested that the reason she signed with two agents was because it's hard to find an agent who represents both Christian and mainstream. Using Rachelle's name was simply to show an agent who does both. Certainly I know of many others.
Trust me, as agents who read queries from published and unpublished authors. Authors with offers and those without we do know how hard it is. Remember, we're the ones doing the rejecting.
How should I address my cover letter to a partial request? Or queries, etc. for that matter? I am old enough that I feel Ms. Doe is extremely formal. However, at the same time I realize that respect is a necessity and an act of respect.
So I am at a road bump (something extremely annoying and slowing me down):
Is it
Dear Ms. Doe?
Dear Ms. Jane Doe?
Dear Ms. Jane?
Dear Jane?
What is common practice here? I don't want to take allowances, but I also respect myself enough as a writer to feel the agent and I are on somewhat even ground. She addressed me by first name in request for my partial, what do you think?
I actually don't think it matters. I get queries all the time addressed to Ms. Faust, Jessica, Jennifer, and Dear Sirs. I think it depends on the author and what feels right to the author. All that being said, if I get Dear Sirs I immediately feel that the author hasn't bothered to do her homework and question how ready she is to be published. If I get Jennifer I just sigh.
If an author uses Jessica and I don't know the author, I guess I do sometimes feel a bit of a jolt, a little too much familiarity. Although I get that more now that I write the blog, so I guess it doesn't impact me in the same way anymore. For me personally, with business correspondence with someone I don't know, I tend to stick with the more formal Mr. or Ms. (never Mrs., just so you know). I don't think this means that you see the agent as being on higher ground, just that you see the letter as a formal business query.
Over the years I've responded to a million proposals (not an exact figure) and I guess I tend to use Mr. or Ms. That being said, if I feel the relationship is moving in a forward direction (I think we'll have an ongoing relationship of some sort) I tend to switch to the author's first name.
Everybody is different; what I want to stress, though, is that using Mr. or Ms. is not about seeing the agent, or any person, as your better, it's about formal business etiquette. And I do think that while it's obvious the world isn't as formal as it used to be, it can never hurt to use good old-fashion etiquette. You're never likely to offend anyone with a Dear Ms. or a Dear Mr.; you don't know what their feelings might be on a Hey Jess [cringe].
Hello, I was wondering if you could answer a best-practice question for me. I have an agent who has requested to see my manuscript. Should I stop querying other agents until this other agent has passed on my work? I'm not quite sure what my ethical obligation is in this situation.
Thank you,
Absolutely do not stop querying now. You're just at the beginning. You have no idea how much attention this agent is going to give your writing. Chances are, she'll look at it for about thirty seconds or a minute and toss it. I'm not trying to be mean, just realistic. Keep querying, do not stop until you have an agent. good luck, seriously
I have always used the formal Mr. or Ms. with queries, partial and full requests or any other business letter. It's business.
I would never be so informal as Dear Jane. Until the agent asked me specifically to do so.
She addressed me by first name in request for my partial
For requests, I always take my cue from the agent or editor. If they address ME by first name, I address THEM by first name. If they address me as Ms. Sullivan, I address them by surname, too.
In any given publishing company, everyone goes by first names all the way up to the CEO, so when I first started querying, I did the same. Jessica, Kristin, etc. More and more blogs said not to do this including a few that I queried, so I stepped back to a more formal Ms. Faust. Then I ran into one who absolutely hated a beginning salutation of dear, since we did not know each other and how could we be dear to one another?
Now I start all my queries Hello Mr./Ms. [last name]
I really don't want to devote the research to keep from offending someone just so I can prove that I actually do know the name of the person I'm querying. The meat of the query is below and not whether I said dear or not.
I do the same thing as Phoenix; I query with 'Ms or Mr', but if they respond by addressing me by my first name, then I respond in kind. I certainly don't feel comfortable addressing someone by title if they write me by opening, "Hey Fawn!" :)
As an editor, I often go out of my way to request/address writers by their first names after the initial contact, because I'd prefer they feel comfortable with me enough to do so. If they continue to 'Ms' at me, I will definitely ask them to please address me by my first name.
@April - you're only obligated if the agent asked for an exclusive. Otherwise, don't stop querying.
agree with Phoenix @9:50 -- I just mirror what they do.
If someone calls me Ms. then I address them as Ms. I'm pretty casual in real life but if they aren't that's fine with me, and I'll adapt accordingly.
Miss Manners points out that Ted Kennedy used to refer to John F Kennedy in public as "Mr. President." Whatever you think of the man's politics, the heightened formality showed respect for the office of the presidency and sounded classy.
I take the same tack with writing to agents or editors. Until it's been made clear that they are not Mr. Smith or Ms. Smith, they get the honorific as an act of respect. It's much nicer to hear "Oh, please, call me Jane" than it is to hear "Oh, please, call me Ms. Smith."
I agree with Phoenix. That's standard business etiquette, too.
I always stick to Mr./Ms. until the agent refers to me by my first name, at which point (if I feel comfortable with it too) I switch to their first name.
It's amazing though how such little details can be the cause of such worry and concern. I totally do this too--obsess over smaller details to try and make sure everything is perfect. Maybe it's because we have so little control once our queries/manuscripts leave our hands, that we want to make sure we've controlled the heck out of what we can.
Even for Marilyn Monroe, it was "Mr." President, thank you.
Thanks. A question I'd often pondered.
I'm curious about the opinion you and Kim have about the rise in e-books and the rights therein. Is this an issue authors should pay closer attention to, or is it strictly agent territory—or perhaps, is it the responsibility of both parties?
There is nothing in this business that is "strictly agent territory." As the author and owner of your business (your author brand), it is imperative that you learn about the business and keep yourself apprised of what is going on. When I look at those authors who have truly achieved success, there is one thing all of them have in common, and that's knowledge of publishing as a business. That doesn't mean they necessarily understand every clause in a contract (a smart author also surrounds herself with smart people), but she does make an effort to understand the contract as a whole, the rights she's licensing to others, and what the options are for her career. She works as a team with those smart people she's hired, which means she has conversations with her agent about the contract and the rights that are being licensed, she discusses design and style with her website designer, and she works hand in hand with her publicist to come up with the next brilliant publicity idea.
So the answer is a resounding: It's the responsibility of both parties to understand and seek knowledge about not just digital rights, but all rights as they pertain to the book.
ebook rights seem to be changing all the time.
I'm seeing more of a new model now where a small/medium press will offer new writers an ebook only contract with a 50/50 royalties split, and if it does well enough, a print contract (with advance) is offered.
1) would agents typically be interested in representing authors with this type of contract, or only if there is an up front advance being offered?
2) I guess if you can 'sell' the ebook to 1 publisher and the print to a different one, then that's okay, right? As long as the contract doesn't somehow tie up the print rights until performance con be established (can they contractually do that?)
I know. You're shocked, but hear me out.
We've often talked about the necessity to be careful on the Internet and to remember when writing your blog or tweets that people are watching and it's important to keep things as professional as possible, and for each of us the meaning of that is different. Certainly if you read the tweets of a handful of agents you'll very obviously see how different we are. I like to keep my personal and professional lives separate, and I tend to have separate accounts for those things. That being said, after a while on Twitter I can see how easy it is to get comfortable and let some of your inhibitions go. I've been chatting with more than a few people and I've gotten to know others. So it's easy to forget the 5,000 or so other followers I have.
But thanks to the "trolls" (I could think of no other name for those who like to pop into the blog for the sole purpose of bad-mouthing me) I am reminded to keep it simple and keep it professional.
So thank you, "trolls," for reminding me to scale it back whenever I think of letting go.
This is just great. Love the droll humor. And it's so true. More than once, someone has pulled me up short for my own good.
Internet communication is tricky. I'm still sorting out how as a writer to share from my life, but not over-do it.
I'd love to see a post on that!
Good reminder. When I first started my blog, I was terrified of these people. I've relaxed quite a bit, but not completely. For awhile I had guy writing what I can only describe as anger manifestos on my site. I'm glad he's gone.
They're out there, but don't forget how many truly wonderful people there are as well. Even trolls aren't enough to ruin the good folks you come across, either online or in life.
I can't go a day without comment moderation on my blog. Trolls are always lurking and trying to comment. And sometimes on blog posts I wrote a year, or more, ago.
LOL on the trolls, aka Anonymous. Funny how the trash talkers are reluctant to reveal their true identities. It's hard to take those types seriously.
I read this title and literally sprayed pepsi out of my mouth. Trolls are downright annoying at times but funny at others. Why? Because some of the things they rant about are so stupid you end up laughing at them. I mean, it's not saying you are the better person or whatever but you kind of are since some people know when to keep their mouths closed. Got to love the trolls though. =)
You've just gotta love trolls!
And your droll sense of humour.
Sometimes they make you laugh. Other times want to pull your hair out. They come in all walks of life,not just on the internet.
But cyberspace seems to let them release their inhibitions. They can rant and rave and come out of their holes and be most annoyingly... annonie-mouse.
Quite apt that!
So here's my initial thoughts here "Crap am I a troll?" Did i say something in my dry sarcastic sense of humor that is sometimes misread on fb? Then I tried to mentally check everything that I might have said to you. But instead had to go through all the stuff I said to others first and I just realized I am a smarty pants. I don't like the trolls this much thought gives me a headache.
All creatures - great and small - have their purposes . .
I get reminded of this same thing upon occasion.
Good blogs are wonderful. Someone is taking their time to share their opinions about the world in a meaningful way. And many times those opinions are received by over 90% of followers as "This is so true," or "Of course, why didn't I say that!"
And since there is truth in most everything, there are people out there who may see the world differently, who might not have the same sensibilities. What does it mean to crap on a blog? Not sure. But good blogs should spark discussion or profound thought. Blogs that have nothing but followers don't seem as successful to me.
So when do counter opinions go too far? And what is the difference between a mean spirited troll and a troll who has something to say? After all, we are all equal, and the owner of the author of a blog is not necessarily the unequivocal word on a subject.
It's hard to stand up against the masses. Especially when the masses have the comfort of others who say the exact same thing. But this doesn't make them right.
So...'trollish' enough? I hope not. Instead, perhaps, we could label this post 'respectful disagreement?'
You suck... just kidding...
Most of the trolls I get are simply comment spam. Very few are real trolls.
And I moderate everything (volume is pretty low), so it's not a difficulty to ban them before they even post.
One lazy afternoon, over a bucket of beers and stale pretzels at a local watering hole, I had an epiphany. A nonfiction book idea poured into my mind, and when I shared my best-selling proposal with my husband, he asked the one question an author doesn't want to hear: "What if you can't find a publisher?"
Since that day, I've been investigating publishing options, including self-publishing. After talking with writing friends who have pursued this route, I've learned several valuable lessons about entering the publishing market:
I'm still working on publishing options, but since I've done my homework, I feel comfortable about the possibility of heading down the self-publishing route.
Have you done your homework? What options have you considered for publishing your work?
by LuAnn Schindler. Read more of LuAnn's work at Writing on the Wall.
Email is a weird thing. It's different from the old snail-mail letters because it's an almost daily form of communication. And, as many of you know, there are rules to email etiquette, things that those of us who are savvy in email know about and those who aren't, don't. If you don't feel you're up on email etiquette, but are entering a business relationship (with editors and agents), I would suggest you bone up on what you need to know.
While I'm certainly no etiquette maven, here are some mistakes I've seen over the years, and I'm sure many of you see them as well.
1. All caps means you're yelling. Do NOT use all caps or caps lock unless you are truly angry and plan on yelling at your agent or editor. Even if we know you didn't intend to yell at us, it's hard to get your screaming voice out of our head as we're reading.
2. Subject lines are for a subject, not for the entire message. If an author types the entire message in the subject line and not in the email, I can't help but feel I'm being chastised. Like the author was angry and couldn't even reach the actual email space.
3. Speaking of subjects: If possible, make your subject relate to your email. That way, before even opening it I get a glimpse of what you're getting in touch about.
4. If possible avoid using fancy templates. They look great when you're composing your email, but they never seem to translate well in the sending. Basically, they usually just make an email difficult to read. Plain white emails with black, simple type work best for me.
5. Keep the message thread alive. Set up your email so that the message thread (the message you're replying to) remains at the bottom of the email. This is especially helpful with queries so that I know what query you're referring to, but also with client emails so that, if needed, I can take a quick perusal of the conversation.
6. Make sure your professional contacts are not included in chain email, or funny forwards.
7. If you have a spam clearance on your email, make sure to clear people you are expecting replies from. This is especially true of queries.
There are probably more tips that others can think of, but these are the common problems I most often see.
Great reminders! I know some offenders
Thanks for the reminders! It is always best to keep it simple. This post makes me think of people who snail-mail resumes on scented paper. Seriously?
Your very right about those caps, but i just try and ignore it. Richard from the Amish settlement of Lebanon,Pa
Another reason to avoid email templates is that sometimes the receiving servers strip the pretty graphics out and add them as an attachment -- your email may get deleted without ever being read.
I found your number two interesting. When I was in the corporate world people preferred I put the message in the subject if it was possible. It saved time from opening the email.
I would also add another rule: include salutations on every email. Some people are fine with starting the email right away, but for business emails, one should always address a person.
I agree, and keep it simple is one of my best rules.
Here's another one: Have something in the subject line. Don't leave it blank. This drives me all kinds of nuts! :)
I also think it helps to have an e-mail address that's your name. When it's initials and numbers, or something only you would know, it gets frustrating.
I'd like to second Anna - it annoys me when people don't take the time to greet me before jumping in to the body of the email. If you're replying to a quick question, no salutation is fine, but otherwise, I just think it's polite to say "Hello Jane," or something first.
And, for the love of God, enough with Lol after every sentence. No one is that funny, and I've stopped laughing since the subject line.
Thank you
Thanks to his blackberry my dad has done the "entire message in subject" thing before. It's not pretty.
I agree with Ryan that you should have a professional email address for at least business purposes. Who's gonna take hotpants911@gmail serious?
Entire message in subject line?
I didn't know one could do that. So I suppose people could send their queries in the subject line...I suppose it's time saving.
I HATE WHEN PEOPLE USE ALL CAPS. It scares me.
also, there is no reason not to use basic capitalization, such as at the beginning of a sentence. this isn't a casual IM with your peeps.
or txt spk. 4 rlz ppl.
Twitter hashtags have no place in an email, either. #beprofessional
Follow the simple rules of grammar and check your spelling. It's hard for me to take anyone seriously as it relates to the business of writing if it's chock full of simple errors.
The free services like AOL include advertising in the body of the email so your email may never reach that agent or editor because of spam filters.
I didn't LOL but I kind of gasped at the rule about not including professional contacts in funny forwards. I would say that's a no brainer, but I suppose it needs to be said. No email is so funny that it should be sent to your entire contacts list. Ever. In fact most of those aren't even very funny...
I find number 2 to be a serious annoyance in my line of work. I do payroll for a living and it makes me very upset when the person I'm corresponding with can't be bother with putting the original message and replies in the body of the e-mail.
Regarding the message thread, if the topic of the message no longer resembles the subject title, please change the subject title to what it really is. I have received tons of email threads that started out about one thing and ten messages strung together later, the topic has totally flipped to something else. Makes me nuts. An ex-advertising client of mine would do that constantly, then get upset when i couldn't find the message she was referring to. That's part of why she's an ex-client now.
I'm glad you put #5 in there. I typically do that, but sometimes I don't know if I ought to leave all that stuff in there or not, and if it makes me look like some loser/idiot who doesn't know how to delete old emails or something. Hur hur.
I think it's a good idea to make a separate email address strictly for business/writing correspondence, that way you're never getting the wrong email addresses in there or goof and send a stupid forward to your dream agent. I actually have three - one for friends/family, one for business, and one for spam and all the random junk I toss my email to.
You said, "Entire message in subject line? I didn't know one could do that."
I don't think this is what Jessica was referring to, but sometimes at work I'll send a brief message that is a subject only. For example, I might write my boss with the subject, "I'm Sick And Working From Home (EOM)"
If it's not clear, (EOM) means "End Of Message."
Just my $0.03.
It is very common in the corporate world to put the message in the subject line. I don't like it one bit, but it is done for a reason so I deal with it as needed.
When I can lord it over somebody to do things my way, I do it. When somebody can lord it over me to do things their way, I do it. Most often, it is a draw and we both do what we want. LOL
If you're sick, you can't be working from home, dear.
I'm afraid I shall have to contact your boss about this. It just won't do.
I searched the web the other day for etiquette about the subject line only because I have an offender in my world. While I *love* hearing it bothers others too, suggesting the EOM will be a great thing.
Great stuff, Jessica! I have one question, the norm these days is to type the title of a book in all caps, would you warn against this as part of the yelling rule? Would you use the old-school quotation marks instead?
Feel free to stop and read old order Mennonite Jeans post on Amish Stories. In this post she talks about pen-pals,what sells for her at the farmers market, and taking relaxing drives in her buggy. only seen in Amish Stories. thanks folks. Richard
If you keep emailing back and forth, the old conversation can get very loooong. Sometimes I cut out the oldest parts and type SNIP so the recipient knows it's been abbreviated. This is especially important for people who type their replies under the old message rather than on top of it....
You know, part of email etiquette is not spamming others.
Just some friendly advice.
I've always said that when you get an offer of representation, or from a publisher, for that matter, you need to use that offer as leverage to find the agent who is best for you and your work. What that means is that when you get an offer you should contact every other agent who has your work, let them know of the offer, and give them a time by which they need to respond to you. I'm here today to make some amendments to that original treatise.
I still think one of the most important things an author can do when getting an offer of representation is consider the offer carefully and interview as many other agents as possible. Remember, the agent who is right for your mother, best friend, bestselling author, or sister's husband's uncle's half-brother is not necessarily the agent that's right for you. However, I also think when talking to other agents and leveraging your offer you need to do it in a way that makes sense and that is productive.
Previously I said contact every other agent "who has your work." My amendment to that is that you should contact "every other agent you haven't heard from yet," which includes those who still have queries. Agents read at different paces. Some read faster, or some might go through a spurt this week of query reading while others were planning to do that next week. If an agent hasn't yet requested material it doesn't mean she's not going to, it could mean she hasn't gotten to your query. Therefore, don't be afraid to contact her to let her know of your offer. In the past six months I offered on three different books when the authors notified me, and I hadn't even gotten to their queries yet. In fact, in some cases they sent a query with the offer because they wanted to hear from me.
Previously I said contact "every other agent," which I'm amending to "every other agent who you are interested in having as your agent." There have been times when I've gotten the distinct feeling that authors with offers were letting every agent know of the offer, asking every agent to spend time reading the manuscript, when in actuality they already knew exactly what decision they were going to make. I think the saying goes "don't waste my time and I won't waste yours." I do think it's important that you contact agents to leverage the offer and get to know, by talking to them, if they would be right for your work, and I realize that you might contact people, get an offer, and go with the first one anyway. That's okay, but if you have an offer from Agent A and proposals out with Agent B and Agent C and queries with Agent D and Agent F (you've already been rejected by Agent E), you should definitely contact them all. Unless you already know that although Agent C is a heavy hitter, you've met her and really didn't click. Then why bother Agent C? Let her off the hook now and simply pull your submission from consideration. Don't make things harder on yourself by wasting your own time, either. If Agent C does offer now you'll need to talk to her on the phone and hold an interview, when you've already decided she's not your speed.
A couple of years ago I made an offer to an author I was really excited about. Stupid thing to say really because I'm always "really excited" about every author I offer to. Anyway, she too was excited, but had the proposal with a couple of other agents and wanted to give them time to consider. Of course I thought that was a smart plan and told her I would wait. The next day she called me back to tell me she was an idiot (which she's not). I was her dream agent and talking with me only cemented that further. Rather than waste anyone else's time she had simply contacted the other agents to let them know she had accepted another offer. Yay for me! Now, in cases like this, when a submission is pulled, agents always get a little annoyed, but I think truthfully we actually feel left out (like we didn't get invited to the party), but you know what? I'd rather not get invited than be invited only because your mom made you invite me when I could have be
This is really weird. I feel like the last two posts were written just for me and considering the date...jeez life is off the wall.
Would this also work for pieces you sent to an epublisher? Would they need to be the same novel you've submitted to both agent and epub?
May I ask what the best thing is to put into the subject line of an email which is to notify an agent of an offer elsewhere? What would get your immediate attention? Just "offer of representation"?
Thank you. That was very helpful.
I recently went through this, and because of an earlier post of yours I read on this subject, I did contact all the other agents I was interested in working with. I ended up with four offers, the last coming from someone on my "dream agent" list.
That being said, I want to add one thing I learned. When you contact the other agents you haven't heard from yet, contact them at their direct email, not their query email. The agent I ended up choosing almost didn't get to my proposal in time, because I sent the "I have an offer" email to her query email address. She was behind by a couple of weeks, so she didn't see my "I have an offer" email until the day before I had set as my deadline to make a decision. Luckily, she was able to take a look at my proposal and offer.
Both she and another agent I sent the "I have an offer" email to said it would have been appropriate to send to their direct email address, and the other agent said it would have even been acceptable to call the agency.
Also, to answer Steena's question, I read somewhere to put the mention of the offer in the subject line. Mine looked like this: "Update: Query: Book Title (offers of representation received)".
My apologies, the last part of my answer was for Jessica, not Steena.
Thank you, Kristi! :o)
I've read this advice on other agents' blogs. And I have to say I can see the advantage to the agent, but not to the writer, of taking the time to contact all the agents who haven't troubled themselves to read the manuscript yet.
Here's the thing. You don't know whether an agent is the right one for you till you work with her. Interviewing her isn't really going to tell you much.
Excellent post Jessica! I just received a 2-book contract from a publisher and will be contacting those who have passed on other queries.
Steena, great question. I would also like to know agent's thoughts on what holds more weight.
Thank you for this post.
"May I ask what the best thing is to put into the subject line of an email which is to notify an agent of an offer elsewhere? What would get your immediate attention? Just "offer of representation"?"
I think these are two excellent questions. As an author, I'd probably put "offer of representation" in the subject line and I'd wait a day or two. But I'd be aggressive about it, and wouldn't wait too long.
Excellent information.
Jessica, with regard to contacting agents who you're interested in possibly working with if you receive an offer, but you haven't contacted them already, what about if the reason you haven't contacted them yet is because they're on a query hiatus? Would the hiatus be "in effect" still if this scenario were to happen?
I read your previous post and the clarifications you made here were very helpful. Thankyou
Let me answer some of your questions.
Yes, if you would like an agent for an epublisher I think the same applies and yes, you need to show all competing agents the same work.
I would put "offer of representation" in the subject line. In the case of BookEnds, "query" or "submission" sends you straight to my query folder so simply, "offer of representation" should guarantee it gets read.
Anon 11:10 makes a good point. Most agents will want a deadline of sorts. Will you give them a week? Through the weekend?
Katie: I recently received almost this exact email from someone who hadn't queried me because I am closed to queries. I read it, fell in love with it and in fact we just closed a deal with a publisher.
Hi Jessica,
I'm in this exact situation now. When contacting other agents, do I just say I've been offered a contract or name the agency and show the contract?
This is awesomely useful information and thank you for sharing it.
I've never had to contact an agent before, so I found this post greatly informative and helpful if I ever do get the chance to search for an agent to work with. I only hope I meet someone as awesome as you.
There's no need to name the agency or show the contract. Letting others know you have an offer is enough.
Thank you so much for such a helpful post.
I'm not in this situation yet, but here is another possible wrinkle:
What if you have 2 mss out, and they are in different subgenres (say, one is a historical mystery, the other an urban fantasy mystery). If you get an offer for the urban fantasy, should you contact the agents who have the historical mystery, too?
Thanks so much!
Thanks, Jessica, and congratulations!
"Anon 11:10 makes a good point. Most agents will want a deadline of sorts. Will you give them a week? Through the weekend?"
I would. My concern would be getting the agent's attention. You guys at Book Ends seem on top of things. But I've been through experiences where not all agencies are.
Been There Done That: I can see the advantage to the writer if he/she hasn't made a firm decision yet (ex: #2 most desired agent makes an offer of representation, but writer is still waiting to hear from #1). It could make a desired agent bump the writer's query up to the top of their priority list and make a decision faster. And this is definitely an advantage if you already have an offer from a publisher.
Here's the thing. You don't know whether an agent is the right one for you till you work with her. Interviewing her isn't really going to tell you much.
You could make that argument for any job, though. My boss couldn't have known for sure I was going to work out until I began my job, but made a best guess based on my interview. It's worked out fine for me so far, but I could have just had good interview skills and not been quite as adept at what I do once I began working. It's always a gamble, but at least an interview provides a little more information to consider.
Very awesome post, Jessica. Thank you for sharing! And thanks Kristi Dosh too for the great info.
With every post, I feel like I can make better, more informed decisions regarding my career. As always, thank you. :)
Great information on how to keep things professional and to avoid potential miscommunication and drama. Work smarter not harder!
If you get an opportunity to go conferences where agents hang out, it's a good idea to attend their talks or say hello. I know Jessica is a great agent because I've talked to her clients too.
Cathleen ross
Maybe I'm old school, but I was under the impression you didn't submit simultaneously to agent/publishers unless they said they would accept that. And most don't like to. So I'm not sure how you'd have your mss out to so many different agents at the same time.
Is an offer from a publishing house the same as having an offer on the table, even if it's not from another agent?
That's the pickle I'm in. I have an offer from a publishing house by a referral from an editor who worked at Random House in the past, but I really want an agent that can help a newbie author like me through the process. . .
First of all, I love the mall analogy. Secondly, great post!
My agent and I have amicably parted ways. As in life, sometimes the person you thought was "the one" simply isn't. That said, I wouldn't change a thing. This agent taught me a lot about the publishing biz, and we still keep in touch.
I feel fortunate to have experienced what having an agent "feels" like, and can't wait to (really!) find "the one."
Yes, that offer from a publishing house is the same. use it and find yourself an agent.
LA Freed:
What you're doing is offering unrequested exclusives and if you've read my blog at all you'll know that I strongly warn against this. Query (and submit) widely.
What about agents that have politely rejected your initial query (but you really like them anyway?) Should you let them know you have an offer, or is that too presumptuous?
See, this is why I read your blog! Thank you for sharing your wisdom and wit with us.
Well, I read this a little late--I had no idea we needed to tell all parties, including people who don't respond to queries. I recently had this happen to me and I feel very bad that the agent who wanted to give me a call was out of the loop when I had an offer. We'd always been told to only tell those who are reading.
My advice to agents is to read thy queries! ;-)
Great advice here and great timing. The agency representing me abruptly closed its doors, two months before my debut novel releases (yeah, bad timing huh).
Then a few days ago I got a three book contract offer, and I have no agent. I was wondering how to word a "query" to a handful of agents I want to approach to represent my novels, along with the 3-book deal.
Might I just send a simple email explaining? Or do I send a query of the book that landed the 3-book offer?
This is the first time I "heard" about this. And what great business etiquette, too! It was my understanding to only contact other agents with fulls or partials when an offer was received, not those with only a query letter I'm still hoping to hear from. Funny, how this makes so much sense.
And I think another follower also asked this, but what is the best subject heading in an email to get the agent's attention when there's a good chance he/she hasn't yet read the original query? Is "Offer of Representation" enough?
All best! K
THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU!! I never even considered these aspects and I consider myself at least a little professional! This is such a helpful, generous post from you--it really is appreciated!
As an agent, are you ever concerned that writers will lie about representation offers in order to get their query faster consideration? Do you have any way of checking to see if the writer's claim is legitimate and/or is it important that the writer tell you who the offer came from?
So would you say waiting to query your top agent choices until the very end or that offer comes is smart or just plain silly?
I think your analogy was spot on, and thanks for the great advice, I hope for the need to apply it in the future ;)
Congratulations to LynneRush on the three book offer. I am sure you will find a new agent. Thanks for the advice, Jessica. I am querying one agent at a time. Perhaps I should speed things up a bit. I do have a deal memo for a picture book. But the novel I am querying is adult. I think you only get to have one agent in the literary world, although this is not true in the acting world. So can you tell me if it's possible to have one agent for picture books and another agent for mid grade and adult novels?
Argh! I just withdrew my query from agents who had not replied, even though one only had the query three days. Honestly, I thought I was being courteous. I love the agent who offered, but I did ask for a week for another agent who has a partial to have time to respond.
To Susan J. Berger: I've read on different agents' blogs that you can have more than one agent if you are writing in different genres and the agents you are querying don't represent both. You'll need to be clear throughout the process with all agents involved. I can't remember where I read the posts, but a Google search on the subject might help. Best of luck!
So here's the story . . .
I receive a message through my LinkedIn account. Honestly, I'm not sure why I have a LinkedIn account. Occasionally I've looked for clients for nonfiction projects through LinkedIn, but rarely has anything ever come of it. Truthfully, the most success I've had in social networking comes through Twitter.
Anyway, a message came through LinkedIn from someone I've never met, I'm not even sure we're connected, asking for assistance in "partnering with a literary agent." This person was a fellow alum from Marquette University and proceeded to tell me about their book. The author ended by telling me there was a book proposal ready. My response, as is my response to all queries sent through social networks (if I respond at all), was that I don't accept queries through social networks, but the author should feel free to query following the guidelines on our website.
The author, apparently because we attended the same school, felt that she was exempt from following my guidelines and was apparently put off by my response, "I'm afraid I do not accept queries via social networking sites. To query me and BookEnds you should review the guidelines on our website."
Well, not that you're surprised, that set off a sh**storm. One that I can now honestly say amuses me and I'm sharing for your entertainment only. The author corrected me to explain how, after rereading the original message, there was nothing in it to indicate this was a query and that not only was my response disappointing, but indicated I have a "lack of belief in Marquette Ideals." What?! What?! Because I stick to a company policy I am now apparently morally corrupt?
And then after explaining that LinkedIn is a professional networking site and not Facebook and that I use it to solely seek to benefit from others the author said, "While I realize you cannot instill decency into people, it disturbs me to have Marquette's name to continue to be represented in such a poor manner."
And there you have it. I am nothing but a money-grubbing, self-absorbed, indecent human misusing my alma mater. Dang, I'm a jerk.
Methinks that writer's the one misusing her alma mater.
Haha, yes, you are indeed one horrible, corrupt individual. Now please have some well-deserved chocolate.
Good Heavens, makes you wonder what would have happened if the author had been rejected through the actual query process.
The adage of 'there is no such thing as bad publicity' is SOOOOO off the mark.
I second the well deserved chocolate break.
Sounds like someone's getting reported to the Marquette Board of Alumni Ethics Violations. You might be in for a Sternly Worded Letter! Or perhaps a Barely Noticeable Yet Devastating Frown From The Dean Next Time You Attend One Of Those Parties.
The ease in which people show their rudeness online always amazes me. Seriously, what is being accomplished by that exchange. Nothing.
Wow - just when you think you've seen them all. Amazing.
Dear Ms. Faust,
As the head of the Marquette Board of Alumni Ethics Violations I have been asked to send you this strongly worded letter. First of all, I want you to know that we here at Marquette take our moral obligations very seriously. As you'll no doubt recall on p. 8 of your Student Handbook which was issued to you in a salmon-covered binding your Freshman year, followed by a lime green your Sophomore year, teal your Junior year, and was discontinued in your Senior year, the following paragraph was highlighted by your room-mate:
"...if any Golden Eagle whatsoever should at any time be in a position of power over any other Golden Eagle, past or present, they are obligated forthwith to extend them each and every courtesy, in congruence with the 130 year history of our institution."
I think that about sums it up. But I'll continue anyway. As you know, our institution's motto is "Numen Flumenque" which is German for "Flamenco like that guy Newman from Seinfeld." You would do well to bear these words in mind in the future.
Very Respectfully,
J. Edgar Numen Flumenque, DDS
Dean of Alumni Ethics
As the cousin of three Marquette grads (and it was on my shortlist of colleges): *JEEZ*! Also, *love* Redleg's response :D
What do you want to bet that this person ends up querying you anyway? Someone like that won't "get" that he/she has burned a bridge.
(I also love Redleg's response.)
I've been meaning to tell you that (the part about your being a money-grubbing, blah, blah, blah.) But, seriously? I mean, SERIOUSLY? It's amazing how some people think they are holier than thou.
PS: Redleg's response rocks.
OK, I have to chime in and agree that Redleg's response rocks.
It's funny what some people think an alumni connection should get for them. I'm guilty, too (though certainly not in the aggressive way your LinkedIn "friend" is!) of assuming too much. Long, long ago, in a place far, far away, I tried to use my West Point alum connections to get a job after I'd been out of the work force for some time due to illness. It got me one courtesy interview that lasted about 10 minutes, a few instances of "Oh, I'm sorry--wish I could help," and an invitation to a local evangelical church service (speaking of "Righteous"). The message, I guess, was and still is that sometimes both God and alumni groups help those who help themselves.
Anyway. Really, Redleg--awesome job.
Oy! There's no cutting of lines when it comes to querying, but some people will try anything.
I hate it when some Special Snowflake melts all over me. They always do when they realize that the rules apply to everybody.
LOL And people wonder why I don't go to school reunions.
And Redleg, totally awesome response!
Too funny!!! I had no idea you were such a sleaze... LOL! Go get you a cupcake, girl. Maybe two.
Miss Jessica,
I see you are blond, such as myself, and felt a kindred spirit between us. I know you are feeling it too, so if you'll please do me a favor and take a look at the proposal of my new book called We Have Things In Common And Owe Each Other For It.
You should have said "I agree. I'll be contacting the alumni association immediately to let them know one of their graduates is using their good name to try and force her way through back doors while ignoring company policy. As this obviously means the person in question is so illiterate as to not be able to read said policy, it's putting the university into a bad light."
Wow. I wish I could say I couldn't believe someone would do something like that, but it's not really surprising. Sorry you had to deal with such poor behavior.
We have had that problem with people parking in front of our boat launch. It's the weirdest thing, there is even a big sign that says DO NOT BLOCK BOAT LAUNCH. Yet people just pull up and park right in front of it.
Rules just don't seem to apply to some people.
Hah! Oh, Jessica...
You had me at sh**storm. :)
There will always be those who believe they are princesses. Can you imagine what things would be like if you'd taken her as a client? Yeesh! The fact that you handled it so well speaks highly of you.
You deserve a Werther's.
Well we all knew that.
That's why we follow this blog. Because all of us are also money grubbing, self-absorbed, indecent humans. >:\
Amazing doesn't begin to express it.
Hi Jessica,
You could try sending a copy of this blog post and comments to her.
If she's as clever as she thinks she is, she'll get the message. If not, her University place was obviously wasted on her.
Lack of belief in Marquette Ideals? I thought Marquette ideals involved partying down on Wells Street, maybe hitting Real Chili, although I note that the best sports bar in the world no longer appears to be on campus. (I would remind you of what that would be, but it seems I have forgotten. It's been a while. And I was always a little fuzzy when I was there anyway.) I had never actually noticed that Marquette engendered a sense of entitlement in its graduates (that would have been the TKEs over at UWM).
Someone was obviously used to getting her own way, huh?
But Jessica, rules are for everybody else, not for me. Here, let me throw my Marquette weight around. I used to pass by Marquette every day on my way into the city, therefore, you should, and this is not a query by the way, go and find my old query letter, and reconsider publishing me. Do you know Milwaukee has more microbreweries than anywhere else in the country? And you have the audacity to defame such a beer drinking city that we both lived in, probably at separate times, by not accepting this not query non proposal for probably a non book. :-)
The reality is, schools don't have the slightest clue how to prepare students for the literary world. For example, and for your amusement, my senior year of college, which was all of two years ago, I took a class in fiction writing. Part of the class was to write a query letter for the publishing house the wished to represent us.
Now, this wasn't a professor of a by gone era that should be retired, he's a fresh young guy who just got the highest doctoral degree for English or Literary something or other you can have. I remember him saying that he didn't have anything published yet and now I know why. He's sending his query letters to the wrong place.
Of course, because of blogs like yours, I've figured out how things work on my own.
I said all that to say that I think people don't know the norms and the socially acceptable behaviors and processes of the literary world. They were taught certain things in college on how things are done. I've found out recently, that a lot of colleges don't know how things are done.
Luckily, another English prof turned me on to writers digest and Sol Stein on Writing. From writers digest, I've found blogs like yours and Nathan Bransford and a whole lot of other resources to teach myself about the business.
Truth is, us newbies to the literary world don't know that we don't know what we don't know because we don't know we need to know it. College is supposed to have prepared us for everything. :-)
I think you are too kind. Most agents would simply ignore unwanted e-mail. End of communication. Responding to points this lady raised is in any event bad strategy because it feeds the troll as it were. Sometimes the best response is none at all.
Of course some agents report that these characters come to the office with nostrils blazing. Maes me wish I were an agent.
Wow. This is the first time I ever gave myself a concussion from a facepalm.
I've heard of (and experienced) some serious chipping in line and the every popular, "but I've always done it that way", but this really takes the cake.
To think that somehow enforcing your own agency's legitimate guidelines is "mean and rude" would in most cases, boggle the imagination.
Unfortunately, this is a common occurance working in the guv'ment.
Go, Redleg! Josin L. McQuein's suggestion was spot-on as always as well.
Also, I am disappointed to learn that pointing out some arbitrary similarity or shared experience will not instantly endear me to an agent. I was hoping one would pledge their love to my undying work that way, even while realizing I was in no way querying them. Oh, woe.
I'll just never understand why writers think they don't need to follow the rules!
Folks! Agents deserve your respect! Their time is just as valuable as yours! Don't burn your bridges!
Please, please listen - your success is at stake.
I don't get the point behind LinkedIn either, at least not for writers. I get invitations all the time and just ignore them. Maybe I'm missing something? I just always thought it was more a business network for people in corporate.
You shoulda gone to one of them there online collages like I did. You can get a writin dee-gree real fast like over a long week-end.
You don't get no alumunuses botherin ya for stuff if ya did.
I think that there Redleg guy is purty cool.
Hey rubytheigh, you single?
My brother is a Marquette grad and I won't say what that 'speaks of him'. I went to Loyola, CGO. As did my daughter. Those darn Jevvies.
I don't understand Linked-in. They send me updates from professionals that have no "link" to me.
"Sense of Entitlement". That's the phrase I was searching for.
Very good. Thanks for post.
What's really baffling is that if she had responded with, "Sorry for my oversight! I'll submit my query shortly through your firm's process," you might have given that query a little more attention just because you'd remember her name. But now she's completely burned a bridge by acting like an entitled ass.
I'm a Marquette grad, and I'm embarrassed by how one of my fellow authors tried to use our alma mater.
I wonder if she has any idea how bad she made us Golden Eagles (or Warriors, as we were back in my day) look.
Carry on, Jessica! Someone's got to make Marquette look good. :)
Sharing with you those things that can really make us laugh.
In a query the author started by going into great detail to tell the story of Famous Bestselling Author and how she struggled to find an agent and publisher. It was only "one visionary agent" who took it on. The Author then continued, after telling me the title of her book, to say, "I expect most agents and editors will dismiss it out of hand."
So before even telling me anything about your book, you've told me I'm not a visionary and that your book won't sell. . . .
Your query tells me nothing about your book. It talks about you, your children, your life (sort of like a Christmas letter) and finishes by asking me to take a look at your writing. The clincher? You know I'm going to pass so in your P.S. you tell me that you've researched lots of sample queries, they seem odd, so you're just going to write from the heart. That's all well and good. Writing from the heart is great. I still need to know something about your book.
"I have many different ideas for books. There are 3 major reasons why I have no manuscript for you 2 look at. A. Honestly, my grammar skills suck and writing a full manuscript would be futile. B. I just don't have the time to finish one and if I was living comfortably and had a person to help me with my writing dos and donts than I could finish one pretty quickly. C. I'm too ignorant about the process and would be embarrassed to hand people my work that didn't completely encompass my vision. Anyways, what I lack as writer, I make up for it with my story telling.
"I have four kids; I am single; and I am available. . . ." Now, the author did add: "for all aspects of editing, writing, and polishing my book," but those first words were rather jarring.
It must be Mozart reborn. He had his symphonies in his head, why bother writing them down.
"So before even telling me anything about your book, you've told me I'm not a visionary and that your book won't sell. . . . . "
Sounds as though she's saying she HOPES you'll be that visionary agent.
I sure would hate to send something to you all and have it used this way. Something about this kind of sharing makes me uncomfortable.
The "query" is odd, however. All I can imagine is that the person may have been trying to write the query from the POV of the novel's protagonist.
— Sasha
I don't think I've laughed so much in weeks! On the other hand, leaves you scratching your head, doesn't it, and I'm not sure if it's from hilarity or fear! :/
Seems to me if this person really cared about writing and getting published, he would do whatever it would take to get together a presentable manuscript. This might include taking classes to improve his writing skills, or hiring an editor or a ghostwriter. If there's one thing I've learned about successful writers, they are willing to do what they need to do to make their work the best it can be.
Yes, this definitely deserved an LOL.
Anyone who reads your blog would know better. Maybe the query was a joke so you could start your day with a smile!
Crazy! What are some people thinking!
"I am single; and I am available."
Sounds like they got you confused with match.com.
I always read new posts from this blog first because they never fail to teach me something or make me laugh. I do feel bad for this person, but it's not like the information isn't out there if you're willing to look and put in some work. It makes you wonder if letters like these aren't jokes. Anyway, thanks for another laugh!
That's sad. I feel badly for the person who wrote it because they don't have a clue.
It's kind of like the party guest who hears you're a writer and either tells you they have a million great storylines in their head, or one great story they want you to write (and split the gazillion dollars you'll earn)and you don't have enough time in one evening to even begin to explain how the publishing world works.
Maybe it's all of the reality tv shows like Dancing with the Stars and American Idol that causes this. If everyone fills out the form letter in triplicate, how do they ever stand out?
It was unique enough to blog about. How many has that happened to compared to accepted and rejected letters?
I think the fact that she even said point-black that she doesn't have the time to write a full manuscript is a red flag. Why both querying if you can't take the time to do the work? Also, I'm pretty sure agents don't help with the entire writing process.
Anyways, thanks for sharing! I always read this blog first too.
I'm just ... wow. That's an actual paragraph? Do people do any research AT ALL? Like, even 30 seconds?
...and these are the queries that are sitting on top of mine in the slush pile. **sigh**
Oh, my. You made me laugh. Good thing my mouth wasn't full.
I read scripts and submissions for a screenwriting agent and we get our fair share of these types of queries too. And the screenwriting world is WAY more lax on things like, well, ability to write, frankly. But you still get these ones that are just completely clueless. It's good for a laugh but it also makes me sad sometimes!
A little bit of internet research, or even getting a book about selling screenplays or books from the library would help these people a lot, but it just doesn't occur to them!
So...why was she writing you? LOL
That reminds me of my first job as a nuclear submarine captain. I just told them I didn't really know anything about subs or warfare or nuclear physics but if I had a really good first mate it would probably work out all right. The Navy was like, "Bam, here are the keys."
Oooh I just want to be the next query in the pile. Anything is going to look good after that LOL.
I agree with Sasha (Anonymous) and think the first query was trying to say YOU COULD BE THAT VISIONARY AGENT!!!, but went about it a little wrong. If he/she wanted to insult you, they probably would have said "you" in there somewhere. :-P
The third one scares me a little bit. I shouldn't be surprised by the lack of research, but alas...I do work in a library, so this isn't really new.
As for that last one, maybe they were trying to say that nothing, nothing!, would get in the way of their writing (except maybe their four kids?).
Off topic - A feerw years ago my husband received an email from a male co-worker which was signed: LOL.
Very puzzled he asked me, "Why is Joe signing an email, lots of love?"
I had to explain what it meant. I still LOL when I think about that.
Have a blessed day.
Redleg - thanks, your comment caused coffee spew!
Sometimes, all you can say is, "Wow. Just wow."
The nice part of me feels sorry for people this clueless. The evil part of me gloats and feels superior as she cackles with glee at the foibles of others. The practical part of me hopes to never, ever send a query that begs to be posted as a how-not-to example. Thanks for continuing to educate us aspiring authors.
Methinks it's a clever ploy! The writer sent this absolute turkey of a query off to you - and shortly afterwards, sent off the "real" query. The trick being that, in comparison, the real query would look even more professional than it was! Just think of those optical illusions in which white seems "whiter" when placed next to grey.
Just my theory.
As a small publisher, I'm always amazed by cover letters (we accept fulls with our subs manager) that go into fine detail about the author's personal life, education and previous publications without so much as a one-sentence pitch on the manuscript I'm supposed to spend hours reading critically.
Give me a reason!
I had a boss once who was fond of saying "life is too short," and it's become a bit of a mantra of mine. Life is short and I want to spend it doing the things I love with people I enjoy spending time with. There's no doubt we always have moments in our lives when we can't choose who we have to spend time with, and there are always things we have to do even if we don't want to (clean toilets, anyone?), but when I have a choice I'm going to pick what I love (like my job) with people I know I'll enjoy working with.
Which is why a query like the one below is not going to get you in my door. It might work with another agent, but after reading this opening I don't care what your book is about, I know we're not a good fit.
I'm supposed to write a query letter to have you look at my book, and be interested in me as a writer. I'm an independent writer because I really have no use for formalities. I detest the pretentious rituals writers have to go through to kiss ass and hope they get their book published. And I would imagine an agent getting bored reading these monotonous ramblings of writers trying their best to write a query in the prescribed format, hoping they got it right, for if they falter in any way their hopes and dreams of "being" a writer will be lost forever. Their fate lies in that sacred of all documents: The Query. How can such a creative art have such dogma?
Wow. Are you sure you don't make these up? It's so shocking that people will send out a query without doing any sort of research into the process. It'd be like going on a job interview without learning a thing about the company (or industry) you're hoping to work in.
All creative arts have rules.
Only those who are not yet true professionals disregard them.
Don't get me wrong - you should start out irreverent, questioning everything, getting rebellion out of your system. But that's LONG before you should start querying.
Then, finally, when you balance mastering the rules of your craft and staying true to your own unique voice... that's when you query.
Disregarding how unprofessional it sounds, it's just so darn rude. Why would anyone want to work with someone who clearly has no respect for the job of agent or the business of publishing?
It just screams, "I don't need you, but I'm going to put up with you because I'm told I have no choice."
I'd hate to see what his resume looks like.
"I'm supposed to present all my skills and past places of employment in order to get this job, but I refuse to kiss ass and beg for the position I know I'm most qualified for. You don't need any references; I'm the only voice you should be listening to, you draconian jerk."
Life is definitely short and time is precious, and I agree 100%. My personal reaction to a query like the one you posted? It's an insult to you as an agent and to those writers who work so hard at getting it right--and getting it right doesn't mean following a tight format for a query letter, but I do believe it means taking the process seriously, addressing the issue (the story and why the author of the work feels it has marketable potential) and not using the query process to waste anyone's time.
Railing against a process that is designed to give the work its best chance is a monumental waste of time, and something better left to a blog comment or complaint over a cold drink at a writers conference.
Sommer nailed it--a letter like that definitely shows a lack of respect, not only for the agent but for the business of writing.
There is a difference between 'kissing ass' and 'conforming', and conducting business in a way that makes people's working lives easier.
I think people like the letter writer may forget that an agent is running a business and needs time to do, well, business things. Time that can't be spent on ferreting out gold in a sea of inconsistently presented material.
I love the sentence "…independent writer because I really have no use for formalities"…how about publishing your independent writing, independently, because you seem to know what is best.
I am supposing such a person might forego the formalities of education, marriage, hospital births and paying taxes. We all know where that will get you.
Ms. Trite wishes the independent writer, Barbra S's words of wisdom…okay let's all join in,
"people, people who need people are the luckiest people in the world."
Now, wasn't that a nice way to start a Monday?
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.... But I have to ask for proof that some dumbass actually wrote that. Please! I need to see this for my own sanity! I can be a gruff, rough around the edges kind of guy, but that just takes the cake!
Saints save me from special snowflakes. urrgh.
On flip side, a lovely and generous editor who has been a supporter of my work (despite several rejections) once advised me not to give up, saying, "Life is long."
This person is clearly in a hurry, and when you're in a hurry, you make mistakes. Big ones.
I can just see this writer's blurb on Amazon when he or she finally breaks down and self-publishes.
"I don't need tell you that this book is better than Harry Potter. I'm too cool for that. You'll buy my book because I'm clearly an awesome independent type."
And I'm sure sales will skyrocket...NOT.
BTW, Wry Wryter, not all homebirths go wrong. My 16 yr,son is living proof of that, and I'm not married, but do query!
I think part of the problem is the misperception of the actual purpose of a query letter.
It's absolutely NOT a matter of making someone jump through hoops, kiss ass, or to force writers into 'pretentious rituals'.
The ENTIRE purpose of a query letter is to convince the agent or editor that reading your manuscript is the best way they could spend their time that day.
And the whole '...if they falter in any way... ' is complete BS and probably just a rationalization for having been declined. I've read any number of submissions that were not perfectly in line with guidelines, because they did get one thing right - they convinced me that reading their manuscript was the best way I could spend my time that day.
Nah, I don't think that query might work with another agent, Jessica.
Just about everybody, when they meet one of these "my way or the highway" type people, opts for the highway.
This writer will end up self-publishing and then blogging about how traditional, "cookie-cutter" publishers have no interest in writers who are really innovative and creative.
I know that readers like to read words in a specific order, with clear nouns and verbs, but I just don't roll that way.
Dude, it only worked for Yoda.
If that was on the jacket of a book, I wouldn't bother to buy the book (or read it). Obviously the writer doesn't understand the purpose of a query.
All I can say is that at least it's one less query with which mine is in competition!
LOL. I understand both points of view. But just as quickly as you dismiss this writers submission, like you say, someone else will pick them right up. There must be an agent somewhere who is also tired of the standard bs query and appreciates honesty.
WOW. Just WOW. And not WOW in a good way, either.
This writer clearly misses the point. If you can't write a single page that keeps someone's interest, how is anyone to think you could write hundreds of interesting pages?
Writing is as much a business as it is a creative art. I never once had to "kiss ass" to any agent, editor, or publisher. I love the people I work with and that's not kissing ass. That is such a misguided concept so many seem to have these days.
I've always worked well with everyone I've ever had to work with in publishing and never had any problems. I think it's a respect issue on top of attitude this person has. When you learn how to treat people with respect, you get it back in return. And this goes for anyone trying to break into any business.
I don't blame you for not wanting to work with someone like this. I wouldn't. Life is too damn short.
Interesting. It takes a special kind of mind to come up with these things.
It always slays me when a writer will take the time to write to an agent just to tell them they don't need an agent. Then don't get one! Why write the letter? Why waste everyone's time blowing hot air?
Such craziness when people don't treat the industry seriously, yet want to be taken seriously.
If that was just the first paragraph of his query, I'd hate to see the actual manuscript. I bet the voice is just as pompous and jerk-y. And, if he were so independent, why doesn't he self publish?
Ha! I love it. I love that you laid it on the line. Because really, who wants that? Thanks for sharing.
Reminds me when I worked for Dell in the escalations department. There were a lot of people who wished things worked the way they wanted, the sooner they realized it worked only one way, the quicker and faster things happened.
He's right. Why would you want to read 1000 queries a week when you could just read 1000 manuscripts a week instead! Tell him your eyes hurt and request a full with him reading it aloud. :)
Funny stuff. At least guys like him make your job interesting.
Nice example of a passive-aggressive personality.
"How can such a creative art have such dogma?"
Because, dear friend, publishing is, in fact, a business.
Surprise! The status quo is valiantly defended again! Congratulations and an extra-special pat on the back for all the booklicking wannabes in this thread eager to confirm the gate-keeper's self-serving bias.
Before I commented, I scanned through the books represented by your agency. I am a fairly avid bookstore browser and I did not recognize ONE SINGLE TITLE.
How's that arbitrary conformism working for ya? Good luck in the mid-lists.
What a comment to wake up to, Jessica! I agree wholeheartedly. Life is short, good thing for query letters, otherwise you might have to read hundreds of pages of this!
Have a great day, all,
This letter is so nasty it is not even funny.
It reminds me of Saturday at my writer's group. One guy had us read his short story for critique. There was zero formatting to the MS, no capital letters, no quotation marks. It was literally unreadable.
When someone asked him if this was just a first draft and he would fix all the syntax later, then format it, he replied, "I don't like capital letters, I think they're arrogant. I only use caps when I have something strong to say."
No one said anything.
Amazing. When will writers learn how to be professional. This is a business, not a place to work out your delusions of grandeur.
Say it all you want, but you are no better than a writer who spends hours painstakingly crafting a good query. In fact, out of the two, you're less likely to be represented.
Why would anyone want to represented someone who doesn't play by the rules.
I'd sure hate to end up talking to that person at a cocktail party!
I wrote a chapter called, "The Art of the Query." It's a humorous diatribe on the "hell" we writers go through to write the perfect query. It still makes me laugh when I read it.
This "writer" needs to lighten up. Sipping a glass of wine while looking out at the ocean might help put things in perspective. (Of course, that's pretty much my solution for everything!)
Even better than the query is Anonymous 1:42. I'll bet you're crying all the way to the bank...
I understand the frustration with how difficult it is to break into mainstream publishing. I understand the frustration with how difficult it is to break into acting, singing, creating art of any kind. I understand that serendipity plays a part in anyone's "break-through".
What the query writer and commenter don't seem to understand is that NO one gets anywhere without working at it. People who think they are too special to put in the work are the ones who whine and complain and blame the world for all their problems.
The world's tiniest violin plays on...
I find it hard to believe that was an actual queg\ry that popped into your inbox, but considering I work for a state guv'ment entity and seen things similiar to that query, it doesn't surprise me that some arrogant individual sent you that query.
I originally thought like that person but thankfully I didn't send out queries like that. Instead, I got some decent advice and excellent tips on how to research and write a query.
If anything, the tone of that query should reside in a pompous fictional character.
Sounds like someone's either A) given up before they started, or B) Thinks they're too good to put work into their query like the rest of us. I've gotten a lot of 'not for me, but keep querying,' rejections, and it doesn't make me give up. It means I haven't found the right agent who GETS me. Yes rejection sucks, but it's no excuse to not even try, and to insult agents before you give them a chance.
That's just simply appalling. Wow...
I think of all jobs, the query is the best way to introduce yourself. It's one page of your writing. Isn't that exactly what you're looking at? How an author writes? Or did I get it wrong? Perhaps authors should start sending their favorite flavored lollipops to introduce themselves.
If you were bored of the monotonous query letters all following the same format, wouldn't you, you know, tell us?
The query letter system may not be perfect, but it's evolved into the standard model because it's what's come the closest to working for the agent, who has all the power at this stage of the game.
The sad part is 1) that this letter sounds more pretentious than any of the query letter rituals, and 2) I'm reading through it going, "Uh huh, yeah, what is your book about?" Me, who has never been and never plans to be an agent, but has sat through a couple of those "read these ten queries" blog exercises where you pretend to be an agent for a day and realize how important a good hook is. Even if this author has a point, an agent's going to stop reading it before getting there. There might be ways to break the mold and get the system to change, but this isn't it.
I have students like this every semester. I often wish I could just delete them from my in-box, but of course, I must keep my enrollment numbers high.
My empathy extends to you. Thank you for helping me remember I'm not crazy!
Someone wise once told me that those who are ABOVE the process rarely get THROUGH the process.
The only way this person's work will end up in print is through the "miracle" of self-publishing.
I'm wondering whether you keep a data base of such queriers, if only to see if their later queries actually sound more professional and business like?
Great! Thanks for sharing.
It's too bad you're busy with...you know, work and life and stuff. Otherwise, you could have written back, and said,
Dear God's Gift To The Literary World:
You are correct. You don't need me. I'm not sure why you wasted your time. Here is a list of publishers and their email addresses. I suggest you send them the exact same letter you sent me.
Best of luck.
Whenever I compose an email to an editor I think about every word I type and how it will be perceived. For example, when following up on a submission, I never want to say I'm "just" getting in touch because it sounds like what I'm getting in touch about isn't that important. While certainly overthinking things can be dangerous and I don't want authors spending weeks laboring over each and every word, how we say things and the words we use are important. We already know that because as authors, you already spend weeks crafting the perfect paragraph or sentence in your manuscript, and the professional correspondence about that manuscript shouldn't be any different.
What inspired this post is that lately I've been noticing a real lack of confidence in emails to agents, or at least what I'm chalking up to lack of confidence. Authors aren't using the best word choices when querying, following up on queries, or getting in touch to tell of an offer. The words used are often coming across as either too weak or too strong, almost combative.
Certainly, we all read with our own issues. In other words, how I read something might not be read by someone else the same way, but I think when proofing and revising our letters we can often tell, pretty quickly, when a better word choice is needed. After all, it's our job as writers to understand and look for how what we're writing might be perceived. It's how we check to make sure our characters come across as likable, for example.
As an example, I've had a few authors check on submissions lately (and I'm not that far behind) by saying something along the lines of, "I'm checking on the status of my manuscript. If you are no longer interested please let me know." Why would you assume I'm no longer interested? Should I not be interested? Is this a challenge? Are you angry that it's taken me so long when in fact it hasn't?
The truth is this makes me not want to read more. If you don't think I should be interested, or are going to present yourself in this sort of angry and combative way in our first correspondence, how are you going to operate months down the line when we're working together? If you've done any research at all on me you know I reply to everything, and most definitely requested material, so this sort of tone seems especially unwarranted (especially if I know that I'm still well within my submission response time frame).
In another example, I've always encouraged authors to use an offer of representation to their advantage. Use it to make sure you can find the best agent for you and your work. That being said, when I'm contacted by an author I want to know that I'm actually requesting and reading the work because I'm one of the agents they are interested in hearing from, and not that they are simply contacting everyone because they were told they should.
There have been times when an author gets an offer of representation about the same time I've requested more material, but instead of saying something like, "I am attaching the material you requested. I have just received an offer so am asking to hear from all interested agents by Friday," the author says to me, "I just received an offer of representation and am waiting to hear back from agents who already have the material. Are you still interested?" I don't know. Should I be? It feels like you don't care whether I'm interested or not, like you've already made your decision, which, frankly, is fine. I'd rather that I'm only in the running if I'm really in the running. If you don't care to entertain an offer from me, let me know, if not out of respect for me and my time, then out of respect to your fellow writers, all of those waiting for me to read their material.
Think of it this way. How would you feel if you contacted an agent to tell her of an offer of representation and her response is something along the lines of, "Okay, I suppose you can send it to me." Why bother? Do you really want to send it after that?
What if an agent requested m
Thanks so much for writing this post! I have to write a follow-up email to an agent soon, and this was extremely helpful. The last thing I want to do is sound angry or unconfident.
I believe the lack of confidence you're experiencing is directly related to the knowledge the hopeful author has as to his odds of success. Everyone knows that the odds are about one in one thousand; or to put it another way, there's a 99.999% chance that you (or any agent, really) will pass on their project. This cannot be conducive to any measure of confidence.
They know this, you know it too. And as a result you get what you get.
On top of this, we're being told "don't be too strong in your query--don't come off as arrogant. Also, don't be too weak, or they'll eat you for breakfast."
This leaves the middle-ground of milquetoast queries. Which is what you're left with.
@Phil Hall -- I'm not sure what's left is "milquetoast." I think what they want to read is professionalism and politeness, with overtones of confidence and friendliness (general friendliness, not overbearing).
I was about to say, "Just as you would speak to someone in a store," but having worked with the public for 25 years, "polite and professional" is often one-sided, LOL!
Great post. Coincidentally, I've been recently analyzing my letters to editors (I often submit to magazines and e-zines) for these sorts of things. The work doesn't always stand on its own -- they see your "face" first, and first impressions count.
I appreciate your post for its content, but completely disagree with the sentiment. O.k, I realize that we can come off as sounding too weak, OR sounding too dominant, but in this market,like the previous commentor said, our chances of getting published are very slim and we don't want to screw it up.
I am sure ( because I have done it), that when an author writes "just checking in" they are trying to be polite, and not bothersome. They realize that you are super busy, but the suspense is killing them. They realize that possibly after a million submissions, that this might be "the one", and they would email a million times a day if it would speed up the process.Not so much because they have delusions of grandeur, but so they can know whether to throw a party, or slip into the bottle for a few days before they get back up on the horse and try again. When they send an email they want to treat the matter as delicately as possible, AKA,do a little ass-kissing.I can understand dissing the overly confident, cocky queries/emails, and dissing the wimpy " don't want to bother you" emails, but what the hell else does that leave? Please try, just try to realize what boat we are in, K ?
I'll be honest, I'm struggling a bit to work out what's wrong with "If you are no longer interested, please let me know", unless it's coming in at, say, 4 weeks when you quote an 8 week response time.
I suppose in some lights it could come across as a bit passive aggressive, but it would surprise me if it was meant that way. If an agent says they respond in 8 weeks and I've heard nothing after 10, I am going to assume the agent isn't interested. It's not a big deal.
I'd love to see a form "nudge" example I can thieve for my correspondence. One which isn't going to inadvertently accrue me enemies.
@Foolplustime: I think the assumption is, if the agent has requested the material, s/he is interested. If the agent is still within their stated time period for reviewing submissions, then you have every right to assume they're still interested, and a simple "Just checking in to see how you're getting on" is sufficient.
Being in query-mode myself, I understand there is the temptation for us as writers to sound desperate. We just want to see our novel in print! But it's important to remember the flip side of this. Agents have jobs and earn money because we write novels. If we didn't write, agents wouldn't eat. So there is a balance here. Sure, there are far more novels than there are agents, so agents appear to be in the better situation. But given the number of queries agents turn down, they need a large volume among which to search for those few that catch their interest. From that perspective, with appropriate humility and respect, we can afford to query with confidence.
Just my 2c.
I enjoy the posts I read from agents reminding me to show confidence in my work.
Honestly, it's a scary business--putting yourself out there to be rejected by most of the people you query--and that lack of confidence can easily creep in because we writers are actually grateful when someone wants to read our work. Especially someone with skills to represent, and someone we want to work with.
Getting an agent is tough, right? So I don't want to mess it up with a misplaced, misspelled, or misconstrued words. I want to put my best foot forward, my words.
I am a naturally humble person, but that doesn't mean I have to lack confidence in my writing. After all, I do want the world to read it, well those interested in falling into fantasy for a while.
Let me present this from a writer's perspective.
We used to send out queries knowing the vast majority of responses would be form rejections. Nowadays the form rejections have been dispensed with and the usual response is silence.
So sheer mental health requires not getting our hopes up.
I sent out multiple queries. Several agents requested my manuscript. One offered representation two days later. I looked at my list and saw I'd put a star next to her name. That meant during my research I'd selected her as someone I'd prefer if there were multiple offers.
I had told the agents who were reading the manuscript that there'd been several requests. One of them had immediately said she was no longer interested since she didn't want to "compete".
The agent with a star next to her name offered. I accepted.
A few months later my agent contacted me with an excellent offer she'd received for the manuscript. On the same day, I received a form rejection from one of the agents I'd never heard back from. He hoped I understood that his rejection was subjective, and no doubt other agents would feel differently, etc.
Should I have earlier sent him a second email withdrawing the manuscript? No doubt. But for all I knew he had moved to Mongolia and taken up goat herding.
You wonder why we get a little jaded?
@Phil Hall-- Ix-nay on the odds-ay. This isn't the state lottery. Manuscripts aren't picked at random from a rotating drum. A writer's odds are about as good as the manuscript he or she is sending out. And as R.S. Bohn says, being polite isn't being Milquetoast.
Am I the only person that had to look up milquetoast?
Is it a word that is used much more outside of the UK or am I just showing my ignorance?
I've been reading agent commentary regarding query/submissions/time frames for the past 2yrs, and there is an overwhelmingly common theme in all their posts that show writers are simply NOT reading clearly posted guidelines at lit agency websites. Agents have been generous with their limited time sharing their experience and industry tips, and writers MUST to do their own homework before even considering submitting a MS. It's that simple. Thanks for letting me share my subjective 2 cents.
In a business where words are the "product", it is hard not to judge each word, phrase or sentence for hidden or double meanings. This is especially true for an author's first impression to a prospective agent -- the query letter. Advice from my mother years ago still applies: straightforward, respectful requests/questions are never wrong.
I have found this works for me the majority of the time.
Sometimes I do wonder if the sender reads what h/she has written before hitting send...
While this is a good post and sound advice, I think that an addendum should be added that this advice should apply as well for people who have chosen to query publishers directly (be they large, medium or small).
My problem with my query letters is they are soo formal I write the life right out of it.
I also wanted to thank you for responding so quickly to my email regarding the agent letter. I've warned my critique group about this agent and sent them to the sites you suggested.
Your name has a star next to it on my list when I'm ready to send out that revived query letter.
Thanks for posting this, I think it was a good reminder to reread your query to make sure you aren't coming off in a way you don't want to.
@scifi13 I live in the US and never heard it before. I'm taking a meaning from context...too early to actually look something up lol
@Anonymous I'm genuinely happy for you! Congrats! I'd love for that to be the case when I start querying.
I understand a writer's urge to talk about the "odds" of getting published. If you look only at numbers, as in numbers of manuscripts vs. numbers of books published, the odds are indeed long.
But, as Anonymous 10:05 says, editors don't reach into a barrel and draw random manuscripts for publication. If you produce something publishable and properly target it, your "odds" increase dramatically.
It's always a good idea to be professional and courteous in all our communications. However, I'm willing to bet that it's better to err on the side of milquetoast than arrogant SOB no matter how amazing the manuscript.
Take a deep breath. Let it out. Recognize that your manuscript is not you, or your child. It's just a product that you're asking an agent to help you sell. Keeping the proper perspective goes a long way toward dealing with all the rejection in this business.
Interesting. Sometimes communication seems so fragile and fraught that it's a wonder anyone ever manages.
I use "just checking in" all the time when I send nudge emails in my own job. It's a bit of verbal padding that seems polite to me. (More so than an unadorned "Did you finish X yet?" anyway.)
I suspect that preemptive "let me know if you're not interested" is intended to come across as a becoming sense of cool. "She hated it and just hasn't gotten around to telling me yet. I will show that I can take the news without flying off the handle."
Post started out OK, thought a good message was about to be delivered, but honestly you just sound testy, a bit tired of the profession or perhaps you 'just' need a vacation.
I mean, come on — "I'm checking on the status of my manuscript. If you are no longer interested please let me know." That's combative? Sounds as though the author is merely seeking information, a status update.
Prickliness might not be the best trait in an agent.
Anita M.
For me, the bottom line is you have to present yourself and your "product" in the best light. I'm still slogging away on my MS, but if I hadn't heard back from an agent, I wouldn't naturally assume he/she didn't like it. I would politely follow up, say something wonderful about my MS and tell the agent I was looking forward to hearing from them.
I've had to read alot of resumes in my life and it's the positive, confident cover letters that get my attention.
Good post. Thanks for sharing!
Is this another "Thank you for your time" post?
Because "Are you interested?" would be considered polite in many regions of the world. If you're going to take offence to it, then I haven't got the energy to deal with an agent as touchy as you.
The OP struck me as a bit arrogant. Sure, we all read between the lines, but it should be done with the understanding that our impressions may be completely wrong, that we're seeing things that aren't there.
We have to have filters, and we will inevitably lose some good stuff, but it has to be done. Getting a good balance is tough.
Maybe the OP wasn't at all 'arrogant', but I took it that way. But I could be wrong. . .
This is a wonderful post. I understand what you're saying. There's something about confidence that makes people, and their ideas, more attractive.
The problem for quite a few of us is: constant rejection leaves a person feeling less than attractive, thereby undermining our confidence, which makes us less attractive. A downward spiral that can only be saved with chocolate and a crowd of good friends. (Supportive critique group anyone?)
The trick is to bury the insecurity until the confidence you feel catches up with the confidence you portray. Once you do, you will catch the right someone that will help your confidence maintain that level of radiance.
As far as correct follow-up letter language...I haven't a clue.
I'm coming to a point where I will need to follow up with the agents and editors that have partials and fulls. I would love to know what I should say.
My letters would have said, "I'm following up on the partial manuscript you requested in June. I am still interested in your representation and look forward to hearing from you."
How does that sound??
In such a competitive market with so few agents and so many writers (and, frankly, many of which are very good writers), the only confidence we can have is that we won't land an agent. That's based on a simple success rate probably below 10 percent.
Which leaves us with being polite.
And I'd rather be realistic than overconfident.
Quite frankly, I'm a bit afraid to query you for fear I would offend without intention. I have a family member or two who read things into emails where no hidden meaning was intended. It has caused more than one family fight.
Great post.
I think you know that writers tend to be the sort of people whose best possible sales pitch is "I don't suppose you want to buy this, do you?" and you're trying to ease us out of that mindset. Nice try. Good post. A lot of people won't get it the first time ... or the tenth. But keep trying. We need to hear it.
How do you feel about cheesy jokes after an agent requests a partial off a query?
I've always wanted to say something like, "You must perceive as I do that 250-ft hamsters are the next vampires." Or something like that. But I always chicken out and say something like, "Please find xyz attached. Thank you for your time and consideration... blah blah blah..."
Here, here, anonymous. I said much the same thing, but she deleted MY comment!
I understand the feeling that if we don't have confidence in our work, why should you? What I don't understand is if you are offended by a straight-forward "please let me know," what would you prefer to hear?
It seems I make my living writing business correspondence and this is a reasonably concise request for information. You didn't mention if this came in 48 hours after submission or if a reasonable amount of time, such as approaching your guidance deadlines, has occurred. In my office, it would not be unheard of to follow up as a deadline is approaching -- in fact, it would be prudent. I understand however, that this is your game, so your rules.
I find considerable value in your blog and enjoy reading it. But, as long as we're speaking of things you don't wish to convey, what stuck out in this post was that "if one more person asks me if I'm 'not interested' I'll scream and hit delete," which really just sounds like you've had a hard week and need to get a call in to the travel agent.
Thanks for all of your comments. Let me clarify a few things.
I get why people have the lack of confidence. What I'm trying to do here is encourage you to be proud of what you've written and let that shine through. I've said this repeatedly before, agents should be honored that you're querying them and excited for the find. If they've requested something they are. Grab hold of that feeling and remind yourself of it.
Anon 9:42 It's really quite difficult to offend me, but if you're afraid of me there are many other great BookEnds agents you might be more comfortable querying.
Anon 10:52: Thanks for the psych analysis, but that's not the case. I simply want authors to stand by their work with confidence. You should. Finishing a book is a great achievement, querying it is another, and getting requests is yet another. Be proud of what you have and convey that to agents. It's not complicated, just a small twist in your wording.
I have nothing against an author saying "let me know of your interest" or "looking forward to hearing of your interest" or something like that. But "let me know if you're not interested" skews negative to me. It says to me that you already think I'm not interested so you're giving me an out. Why give an agent an out? Make her work for that rejection if that's what you're expecting. Don't tell her you're expecting it anyway.
Interesting post. It's hard to find the middle ground of not being overbearing or meek. I struggle with that in real life and it's something I'm working daily to combat.
I see what you mean about skewing negative. Like asking:
do you think I look pritty?
vs asking
do you think I look ugly?
Either way the question is being asked. How you ask the question reveals what you think of yourself.
I'm a professional.
I don't have problems.
I don't cause problems.
I solve your problems.
This is so important! Thanks for reminding us.
I like those quotes. Of the authors whom I know/have met, my favorites are people who treat everyone with kindness. And they aren't doing it because they want to make good PR, even though they know that good PR is important. You can just feel the genuine kindness that's naturally inside them flowing out of them.
I've been receiving a lot of queries lately that are far too informal and personal, queries in which the querier obviously had interactions with me before and assumed I would remember who she is. Frankly, it's just confusing.
The queries often go something like this:
I know you're busy, but I wanted to let you know that Joe Schmoo has requested my manuscript for [Book Not To Be Named] and seems very excited about it. I fully intend to revise and make my characters more likeable. Would you like to take a second look? After all, we know the book will appeal to everyone.
Now that my divorce is final and I've got my life back I'm really ready to devote my time to writing. I'm so excited about the opportunities I have and since I love your blog I would hate for you to regret passing on my book.
Let me tell you: I have no idea who Jenny is, no recollection of what this book could be, and, frankly, no interest since I don't know what she's talking about.
Don't ever assume an agent remembers you (unless she's your agent). Always query professionally and provide as much information as possible.
Uh. You'd think this would fall into the 'logic' category, non? I've been hopping around blogging sites that deal with queries for a while, and I'm often surprised at how informal and 'blurby' most queries are. When I look at all the information available, it seems the best thing is to stay professional and know what you're pitching and to whom.
Maybe it is because of the blogs many agents have. We feel we know you agents, you write some pretty personal stuff, so we do too.
We overhear cell conversations all day long, computers, email, facebook, twitter, we are privy to a lot of what an agent or anyone for that matter, is about.
Hard to stay professional when we learn how moved you are by a dedication,or how tired you are from ready all those querys, or how pissed you get when someone addresses you as Jennifer.
That's insane!
LOL...Jessica, I don't even count on you remembering me and you've been my agent forever! When dealing with anyone who has an impact on my career, I try and keep it professional, supplying all background info pertinent to my request. As "creepy query girl" says, it falls into the logic category. The last thing I want a busy editor or agent to do when reading my mail is to have a "huh?" moment. I'd rather provide all the information in one spot and make it as simple as possible.
Regardless of how well you feel you know an agent via their blog, it is just common sense to remember they don't know YOU.
Hello? Some peeps are just nuts.
But, with respect to this particular query: assuming a writer has revised her query since you last laid eyes on it, and has had requests from other agents, is it permissable to re-query you again?
Maybe I am just old-fashioned, but I think a certain level of formality is called for in business and this is indeed business. So sad to see language's slow decline into the informal. At least the query wasn't written as if it were a text message or chat room blurb. Can't you just see it now? "R U gonna take this? Some1 else wants it 2. CYA." It may come to that yet!
If you follow agent blogs for even a week or two, it's easy to get an idea of how many queries they're dealing with. It should follow that this is a no-brainer (but, of course, that would make life too easy!). I get Anon 10:04's sentiment about how agent blogs make it easy for us to feel like we know you and that perhaps you know us, but based on just the query stage? You'd have to have a bionic brain to remember everyone!
I can't believe people do this, and I sure don't envy agents for having to put up with it.
Sounds like someone needs a shot with the good old clue gun.
I've been getting a lot of queries with hand-written messages at the bottom saying they really enjoyed conversing with my boss, but often there are no specifics - over the phone? at a convention? etc. I check in with my boss and sometimes she has a difficult time recalling if she did talk to them or not, which means there is a possibility she DID talk to them and couldn't remember, but so many come through in this format that I wonder if it's a new technique...?
That's too funny. I guess the real trick is to be professional in writing and personable when actually "in person." Thanks for the post!
I think a lot of lonely people write.
I think she just assumed you guys were close friends. And of course that isn't how a query is supposed to be. Maybe it was like a friend letter asking how Jenny was. :P
Though I doubt that could be it.
And don't ever mention your DIVORCE in a query letter. Professionalism, above and beyond all else. I don't see the point in mentioning it in the first place. What does that have to do with anything? We all have personal lives that we continue to write our way through.
Yes, one day it may come to this: "R U gonna take this? Some1 else wants it 2. CYA."
Until then, I don't want to be acting like a teenager.
That "got my life back" query is simply spooky.
I recently had the chance to query an agent who had been interested in a different novel about a new novel. I decided that, since I had no idea whether the agent thought my writing was crap or wasn't interested in the plot or what caused the rejection, the easiest thing for me to do was re-query as if I had never queried the agent before. It's a different novel (I'd never dream of re-querying with the same novel unless I was specifically asked for revisions), and thus it gets a different query letter. I decided not to even mention that I'd sent along a partial of a different novel in the past. It didn't seem pertinent to the query this time around.
I recently received a query for an author's debut novel. The author was incredibly confident, envisioning the novel as a future bestseller and hit movie, but that's not what bothered me. What I found unsettling was when she wrote, "I am sending this proposal to several literary agents and have set a deadline for your reply as at July 31, 2010. If you believe you're the right agent, please contact me. I require a list of your published titles and the publishers you've worked with, as well as your expected fee (commission). I look forward to hearing from you and hope to create a great working partnership."
Ultimately I rejected the query, partly because I didn't feel I was right for it, but also in part because I was put off by the author's demands. Information on my sales, including publishers, is really easy to find with just a little bit of research. Heck, if you found my name it's likely you also found that information. Certainly she's right to want to know that information, but am I the one that needs to supply it and, maybe, it was the way her request was phrased that didn't sit right?
When I submit to publishers I don't need to ask what pay range they are in, what kind of royalties they offer, or who else they publish. I've done my research and I know that already. When negotiations start I will definitely have more questions specific to the book I'm selling. At that point I will most definitely want to know their vision for the book, including advance, royalties, marketing, etc. But does it sit wrong to demand that before someone has even read the book?
I give the author credit for being so confident. Her query was well written (although could have been a lot stronger), but I worry that with many agents this approach might backfire, that she appears to demand a lot without bothering to understand the business first. Of course, I might be reading too much into it.
She just sounds bloody rude to me.
My book will of coarse be a best seller, in part because Oprah will read and love it. My publisher wiil most certainly pay the highest advance ever paid for a debut novel, the deal will make my agent's name a household word. J.K. Rowling and Stephen King will call ME for writing advice.
Larry King will interview me and the star studded cast of the blockbuster movie which will win more Oscars than any other movie in history.
And to think, Jessica (what's her name) rejected my query, go figure.
I'm not being overconfident. Oh, wait a minute,let me wipe the sleep out of eyes I must have have fallen asleep..was I dreaming?
You want to exude confidence in a query letter but you don't want to bleed arrogance, which is the tone I'm getting from the excerpt. Maybe she didn't intend to sound that way, but a major rule of writing in general is if the reader may not understand what you're saying, scrap it. Query letters included.
The only way you're reading too much into it is in taking this woman seriously. She probably acts this way in all her relationships. Can you imagine what she says to her dates?
I know I always complain that the relationship between writers and the people who make a living off the fact that writers exist ought to be more egalitarian. But this lady, as Merilee said, is just rude. Working with her would be painful.
Sounds more like someone hiring a nanny than seeking representation on a debut novel. Maya Angelou wrote, "When someone shows you who they really are, believe them the first time." I think it was really nice of this author to show you so clearly who he/she is -- demanding and inflexible. Believe it and move on.
Did I mention I will also be interviewed on The View and Good Morning America.
'BeingBeth', I've been counseling Maya Angelou by the way, she seeks my advice quite often.
Ok, that's enuff, don't want no one to think i are arogent because i are a riter.
I don't know how anyone who has done research on how to write a successful query can NOT know that this is a bad approach.
At some point overconfidence becomes delusion.
Of course, I know you're aware of how skewed the agent-author relationship is compared to most business relationships. The author-agent relationship as a "business relationship" would appear on the surface to be one in which the author hires the agent, who then gets paid 15% based on the success of their work.
Then it gets skewed, because the agent apparently decides who they will work with, the terms of their relationship, etc., and most writers feel like they go begging, rather than hiring. The author is supposedly hiring the agent, but the agent makes all the decisions.
Most people in the business describe it as a business partnership, although if that were accurate you would question the 15% commission versus a 50/50 split.
I guess my point is: the editor/agent relationship is weird.
It's startlingly out-of-character in publishing, but let's face it - if she were considering you for the position as her lawyer or realtor, her questions would be completely appropriate and you would be expected to 'sell' yourself and your services.
Publishing is weird.
I hope she sent the same query to Janet Reid...heh heh heh.
M.D. Fields
I'm not sure it's rude so much as presumptious. If I walk into Target, and a cashier comes up to me and says, "Let me take your credit card and verify your account," my reaction is going to be, "Wait a minute, I don't even know if I'm buying anything yet."
Although of course at Target I usually am.
This isn't the first query I've heard of with these demands. Colleen Lindsay had one from a gentleman a while back. I think it is rude to try to give an already busy agent a time frame to reply to you in.
The idea of giving a deadline could POSSIBLY be more plausible once you are working together trying to get the final details worked out on a book.
In a query is just a bit much for me.
This approach is mindboggling to me.
Instead... she should have looked at your agency site to see if your books are in line with what she is selling.
Then, when she approached you, keeping in mind what you've said in past about your response rate, she should have had an internal 'need a response by' date, and at that time, if you hadn't responded, she should have approached you with a question about your progress on the query.
Why would an agent want to work with (and 'with' is the operative word, because it is a collaborative effort) someone who hasn't taken the time to do her research, and yet comes off sounding like a know-it-all?
This just strikes me as someone who hasn't done her research. The mistakes she's made are ones that I've read about time and again, and while her approach might seem like a good idea when the whole concept of querying comes to one's attention (I had no idea about it before a few years ago, and I doubt the average Joe on the street knows much more about it than my dog does), just a few hours of research would put the kibosh on this kind of over-confident rubbish.
There's confident, and there's hubris. One is necessary, the other is obnoxious.
I hope, for her sake, the book is really, really good. But my guess is the manuscript is in an equally first-draft kind of form. Which is no big deal; we all start somewhere.
Wow- I mean, I admire her confidence. But it makes it sound like she's screening for a potential employee when in all reality- having an agent shoud be more like a partnership, right? And agents really do have all the power in this situation so it might come off as pompous to make THEM jump threw hoops to work for HER. Sounds like her outlook is a bit askew if you ask me.
Being Beth, that's a wonderful quote.
"It's startlingly out-of-character in publishing, but let's face it - if she were considering you for the position as her lawyer or realtor, her questions would be completely appropriate and you would be expected to 'sell' yourself and your services.
Publishing is weird."
Publishing is like any other business when it comes to supply and demand. In publishing, the supply (writers) exponentially exceeds the demand (editors/agents). So the suppliers don't get to make the rules. A person needing a lawyer has many options, so he gets to pick and choose.
When the supplier becomes an established money-maker and much sought-after, the story changes. Just like in any other business.
And even in real estate and law, the suppliers get to review the home or case before deciding whether they want to work with the client, and then whether they are willing to sell themselves and their services. This writer kinda jumped the gun.
I agree publishing is weird, but not in this respect.
Your querier might think this approach works because she's looking to hire someone to represent her, so she asks you the same questions she'd ask her real-estate agent. But she's wrong. In business the law of supply and demand rules, and there's hundreds, maybe thousands, of would-be writers out there to every agent. That puts the control into the agent's hands.
This may be off-topic, but aside from the agent's own website does anyone out there know how to find out what books an agent has sold?
PS. No, I didn't write that query :).
Christi, you can check out Publishers Marketplace. It usually has the books bought by publishers in all genres and who repped them.
You can type in an agent's name and it should pull up all the deals done in the past few years.
There is a fee to sign up, but it is worth it to see who's doing what.
As for the query, I bet that if the author hadn't come off so arrogant, Jessica may have asked for a partial.
I have one thing to say to her: You are a little fish in a big pond. Be respectful and you might get a rejection letter with some helpful pointers.
Blogging about her is actually a nice way to give her a wake up call. Although, she doesn't seem to blog based on that major query faux paux.
Reading this, I had to wonder if the querier had reflected yet and winced at their tactic. I know I just did for them.
Courtesy above all goes a long way in life, and certainly in publishing. I don't know of any agents who've praised someone for being demanding or presumptuous, and certainly not ill-informed.
Oh, so that is what not to do..hehehe.
Your points are well taken. She obviously hasn't taken the time to research the ins and outs of querying or utilized the very easy sources that would answer those questions she's demanding of agents. Frankly, I would expect the response of 99.999% of agents she's queried to file 13 this one. She'll be lucky if they respond at all.
I think the writer's mistakes come from writing a formal business letter. She didn't take into consideration that it is not her, but her work, that will create that partnership with the agent.
Unfortunately, she didn't do her homework on the difficulties and intricacies involved in securing an agent to represent her work.
So, yes, it does backfire, and I'd suggest a little more humility and a little less confidence, these here are tricky waters. ; )
I'm enjoying the responses to this post as much as the post--and have to agree that it's the voice of the letter that would immediately turn me off--arrogance, hubris, and yes, delusional are all great ways to describe the tone of the query.
I had a similar experience in reverse. A brand new epublisher made all sorts of nit-picky demands of me which not even the major publishers make. I was like, uh, this publisher expects preference over the uber-agents courting me right now? Um, no.
I got that one and found it incredibly arrogant. Instant reject for me. Why would I want to work with someone that arrogant?
"but also in part because I was put off by the author's demands. Information on my sales, including publishers, is really easy to find with just a little bit of research."
Sheesh...lighten up, hon :) These weren't demands. Clearly, they were questions by someone who doesn't know the publishing industry very well.
If you were to question most people on the street who know nothing about publishing, these questions wouldn't sound like demands. They would sound like valid requests.
No, I agree. The author definitely sounds too demanding without understanding the business. Possibly poor attitude and lack of research = an author probably not ready to be published, well-written or not. Sometimes overconfidence can be a far worse affliction than lack of confidence.
I don't know why it is so, but in writing, arrogance and amateurishness often seem to go together. The more experience you get, the more it humbles you.
She's most likely just starting out, as simple as that, and probably one day she'll be remembering this letter with embarrassment.
i think it's a great letter.
I believe the letter was bordering on disrespect. I say "Do your research!" I remember a post about wasting an agents time, and because this person didn't do the research the agent is expected to send a list. Anyway, how does this person know what kind of work to submit to each agent?
I also think it's a great letter. It's amazing: agents are often rude to writers but are offended when they receive it in return.
"I don't know why it is so, but in writing, arrogance and amateurishness often seem to go together. The more experience you get, the more it humbles you."
Beautifully stated, GalaktioNova.
Before I started reading agent blogs, I knew nothing about the process of getting an agent or the publishing business. But it never would have occurred to me to take that approach, even in my ignorance. She must have had some bad information?
What worries me is the use of fee/commission; it sounds like she doesn't know about the usual 15% and thinks she can compare prices. Which makes me think she'll get responses from the scammers only.
@ Smelling
I think most of us who read this blog would agree that Jessica goes out of her way not to be rude to writers, which makes your argument rather less applicable.
As for the writer, I've seen this kind of football-padding-plus-stiletto-heels approach in the corporate world, and believe me, it's just as big of a turn-off in that setting. There's a disconnect from sweet reality that fails to inspire confidence--and worse, by demanding respect, fails to earn it.
I'm not this author, but I've rewritten the quote. Does this sound as arrogant or snooty? All I did was phrase what they wanted as a request rather than a demand. Flies and sugar and all that.
I am sending this proposal to several literary agents and would like your reply by July 31, 2010. If you believe you're the right agent, please contact me. If you have a list of your published titles and the publishers you've worked with available, could you please include this information or direct me to where you have it on your website. I would also like to know your expected fee (commission) should you be interested. I look forward to hearing from you and hope to create a great working partnership.
I think this sounds a lot better, and asks for the same things. How you say things is sometimes more important than what you say.
It actually sounds to me like what would happen if I asked someone to write a letter for me. A "Querying Service" or a more forceful friend, say.
Oh, god, I can't do this, I'm going to sound like a weeny! Here, you do it for me, you're a business major!
(because I can't get my open ID thingummy to work)
That's my bet.
I'm a little concerned about your issues with the refs, Jessica.
In any business relationship, references go both ways. I've seen agent websites that offer a complete list of pub'd titles and a list of publishers that the agent has worked with. This is a good thing. Is it inappropriate to ask that the agent have a sheet with this info or have it readily available on their business site rather than a prospective client having to do the research to find it? I don't think so.
The author did not say s/he needed refs immediately (although it could be inferred so). If you were to eventually offer, I would expect you could supply your refs via a simple link or a document by request. Couldn't you?
I suspect publishers have those sheets readily available for you, as well.
This person also gave agents a reasonable amount of time to reply to a simple query: 90 days. The assumption is that if s/he hasn't heard from you by then you're not interested. If you've picked up the query after that time, you needn't bother any further with it. If the author had mentioned an unreasonable timeframe, then, yes, you'd have a better right to be annoyed, IMO.
Is this letter a bit forward? Yes. This is a person who wants to be in the position of power, who maybe even thinks they are. It also plays on the tenets of the effective sales letter: Always ask for the close.
Would I phrase my query like this? No. Are you being overly sensitive? Probably. Does the approach backfire? With many agents, obviously so.
I'm flabergasted at this query. Everyone has said it all.
As a journalist, I sometimes had to give deadlines to editors if an idea was timely. But I said, "If I don't hear from you by (date), I'll assume you're not interested."
One agent keep me waiting for 7 mos. without a response to a requested full, just excuses. I do think a deadline or withdrawal may be best for the writer's sanity. We're busy too!
I understand what Phoenix is saying, but a query isn't the appropriate time to ask for such references. Find out if the agent is interested in representing you, do your homework, and whatever else you need to know can be asked at that point.
Mark Terry -- most professionals choose who they work with. Lawyers turn down clients they don't want to represent, and doctors may do so as well. The difference is they get paid while they turn someone down.
That being said, it would be a lot easier if a writer could merely opt to plunk down a per hour fee, and I'm sure many would do so. But if the book didn't sell, what would happen then? There's no guarantee. The way it is, there's no guarantee, but at least a writer can't complain the agent took them for money.
I agree this person comes off as being full of themselves instead of confident. I think she meant to come off as taking charge, rather than arrogant, but it failed.
I would bet this person is a professional, and this is the way they do business in their daily job.
It is hard to know what is the correct way to be professional in a different industry, especially when you already think you are. And there is a lot of info out there that says a query letter is a business letter.
I'm betting a lawyer.
Wow. Many good comments and points well made. I think there is a fine line between being confident and being arrogant. For me, this person definitely crossed it, and I'd have probably had the same kind of reaction. No matter what the relationship (or in this case, potential relationship) between parties, there's a certain amount of courtesy that everyone should bring to the table. To demand a list of information that could easily be garnered through online research is just unprofessional. The deadline? Pushing it. If she needed a response due to having an offer on the table, I could see it. But otherwise...unprofessional as well.
Nice to disclose that she's querying multiple agents, but I have to assume that all agents believe this to be the case across the board. Is there anyone who really queries agents one at a time?
This is timely for me, but only because I had an agent recently do something similar when asking for a partial. Her list of demands were huge (she was new, with no sales, was at a good agency, but obviously had no clue how to be an agent just yet).
Her needs went something like, jump through this hoop, and then that hoop, and then this one that has nothing to do with your ms or your credentials and then, maybe I might represent you, but only after you do this and that. How could she say she might represent me when she hadn't yet read even a partial of the ms?
I withdrew it. Cluelessness works both ways -- an agent that acts like you are already a burden for simply querying them is a red flag.
There is no kind of crazy like publishing crazy.
How was the writing in the pages?
That's always the important question.
As for the author's approach, well, good for them. :)
But it probably won't work because it's so counter-culture - current culture being that the writer is low man on the totem pole and should be humble and polite. Groups tend to enforce their culture; first they enforce it gently, then more strongly, until they'll evenutally try to oust someone who doesn't conform.
A letter that is THIS counter-culture will probably make people very uncomfortable and will be met with slammed doors and ridicule.
On the other hand, the author might get lucky. Someone who really liked the pages might appreciate the freshness, the naivety or just have a sense of humor about the whole thing.
Interesting example.
@anon 10:17 - The concept of supply and demand doesn't work with the agent model, logically. There may be more writers than agents, but you aren't selling anything to the agent, you're offering to give them 15% of your income to sell it for you.
And yes, real estate agents can pick and choose what properties they work with, but I've never seen homeowners doggedly following the tweets and blogs of real estate agents.
Homes have an estimated value - it's anyone's guess what a manuscript will sell for.
As a 'business' - as we are constantly reminded it is - it's weird.
Faun - the other reason I agree with you is that there may be thousands of writers, but very few of them will actually sell well.
Oddly enough, if you have a book that will sell, you're in a small minority, and it's a writer's market then.
Self-righteousness and arrogance aren't going to help you get a book deal... just ask Tyra Banks!
Oh wait...
Dear Agent:
My fiction novel is teh awesome. I've been far to busy writing my 40,000 word epic to bother researching the grunts tasked to sell it for me. I have people for that, and as soon as you send me my advance, I'll pay them.
The book is so far beyond what you're expecting that I can't afford to describe it in any kind of detail, lest you steal it. But you can't just HAVE my novel. (What do you think I am, a total n00b) No, if you want the one and only available slot as MY representation, you have to work for it.
And don't think you're going to snow me with that "commission" tripe. You get paid based on performance - think of it like a waiter's tip. Do good and I pay you more. It's MY money for MY words, why should you get any?
I guess I'll have to give you some clue as to what you'll get with me, just don't expect it to be anything you've seen in your inbox. I've got one word for you: vampires. We'll start a trend.
At least we will if you're quick enough to catch my interest.
Netta Chance N'Hale
I have to be honest, I go back and forth about it. Yes, it was rude to include a list of demands...but at the same time, her demands aren't ones I wouldn't want to discuss if an agent offered representation. Conclusion: she's new, she's trying, and she hasn't quite figured out how to balance her sales pitch. Like scarlettprose mentioned above, exuding confidence without coming off arrogant is a fine line to tightrope across.
I'm baffled. Behind the book is a relationship between the agent and the author. This particular relationship does not sound like it was starting off on the right foot whatsoever. I give you credit for stating that you rejected it ultimately because the work was wrong for you. I don't think anyone would blame you for having rejected it based on an unprofessional approach being taken.
That letter made me laugh! You should send it to Query Shark as a joke; I bet she'd get a kick out of it.
My jaw hit the floor when I read this! She's lucky I wasn't the one reading this query; she would have really gotten a piece of my mind!
Maybe I'm being too nice, but I don't think she's being rude. She just doesn't understand the business and the supply-vs-demand realities of agents-vs-authors.
It's as if this person is accostomed to hiring contractors, and she's requesting proposals. In this context, her demands are somewhat reasonable (if inartfully worded), because there are often contractors fighting over the same jobs.
On the other hand, if she did enough homework to write a reasonably structured query in the first place, maybe she's intentionally testing out the moxie approach. It certainly go your attention!
Either way, I think it's OK to be turned off by this. It sets a bad tone for any future working relationship.
Awesome! Legit agents will throw the letter away, while the scammers will race each other to contact this author. Being new and uninformed, she will not know about the scammers.
This will not end well.
If she didn't know the answers to the questions she posed, she was clearly severely uninformed about the business she proposed to enter. One might in charity say she thought she was being business-like and she might very well have a future. But were I the recipient of the enquiry, her future would not be with me. She'll learn and probably she'll prosper.
If she submitted a query letter, then she's done some type of research.
I recently submitted query letters for my first novel as well, and I had no clue how things were done these days. I definitely didn't know what a query letter was. So if she wrote a strong query letter as Jessica indicated, then I would say she definitely researched the process of submitting to an agent.
Based off that assumption, I would have to say the letter's a little ostentatious.
Then again in her defense, I've said it a million times; reading somebody's intent and tone via a letter is so gosh darn difficult!
So yes, it backfired.
I've been interviewing stone guys for new granite countertops all month. If you think these questions are demanding, you should see the questions I've been asking these poor stone guys. And this is because I've never done this sort of thing before. I'm not trying to be rude on purpose. I just want to be sure I'm getting what I pay for.
I know, you're not going to like being compared to a stone guy. And maybe that isn't the best comparison. The overall analogy, however, is.
I think it's safe to say that everyone reading this blog knows the basics. And I also think it's safe to say that with all the people out there writing books, good or bad, who don't read agent blogs they think about hiring an agent the same way they'd hire an attorney, a doctor, or a stone mason. Big suprise: most people don't spend their time reading blogs.
Now, if I were to send you a query like this after reading your blog for so long, you have every right to kick my butt upside down :))
This does sound very much like a form query sent to several agents. As you advise for your form rejections, I would say don't take it personally or try to read anything more into it than that the person wants an agent for their work. Otherwise, you could spend hours trying to second guess the hidden meanings. For instance, you may have references that are easily accessible, but not all agents do. Not all agents are members of AAR, so asking about fees (which some legit agents do charge for ms prep while other agents absorb those costs and write them off at the end of the year) and commissions may be a way to ensure she doesn't end up with a scammer.
Seems if the rest of the query were strong enough you would check out the writing. If the writing were there, then you would talk to the person for a bit and feel them out before offering representation anyway. Isn't that the way the process usually works?
I have enjoyed the comments more than the post today. Jessica you sure shook the hive and enlivened the bees.
Isn't it funny, we all know a bad query when we read one and when given an example of a good one, I'll bet most of the bloggers today, especially the anon's, would say, you liked that, Oh I could do better.
Jessica please don't post my (rejected)query this group smells blood.
Look at the time I first posted and now, I need to get a life.
Bookends, you should do a post on this:
Basically, so many writers are eschewing the agent process in favor of throwing ebooks at Amazon to see what sticks that people are getting worried about the Very Quality of Future Writing itself!!!!
It's all about the Konrath Effect now...
But Pinter pounds some nails of reality into the boards of would be e-bestsellers' dreams.
she's manipulative. don't like it. not one bit. one can be confident and still have good manners. she didn't.
I feel like I have read this exact query before. It's making me wonder if another agent has already blogged about it, which would mean the writer's made the same mistake with multiple people. I agree with all the commenters who say she must be new to querying and writing it as she would a business letter, but this is why research is important!
Ahh, after a quick search through my reader, I see it turned up on your blog on May 4th (but then was removed? Or maybe there was glitch where you wrote up the post and set it to publish later, and it showed up in my reader anyway.). I'm a bit relieved; in her place, I'd be pretty mortified if not one but two agents wrote about something I had done wrong!
A little on the arrogant side, although maybe she thought it was confidence. There can be a fine line between confidence and arrogance.
Although, I am leaning a bit towards the latter, especially as she guaranteed it would be a best seller and hit movie. I still do not understand why anyone would put that in a letter. Nothing is guaranteed in publishing--or any sort of media really.
Wow, thanks for the laugh. I think if I were Stephen King I could demand such information (but Stephen would probably already know it), but for a new author she does sound a little demanding. Wouldn't you worry this is how she'd act in all aspects of her career?
Realistically, that kind of approach would probably never work, but it must be a lot of fun to send off queries like that. I find the idea of giving literary agents a deadline very amusing, but unfortunately also self-defeating and unproductive for the writer.
Thanks for sharing.
My guess is that the author is NOT naive and uninformed, and knows something we do not.
I get a lot of referrals from clients, which, of course, I absolutely love. In fact, just last month (or maybe the month before) I signed a new client who came through a referral. But I digress.
The reason I'm writing this post is because there is definitely a different way of doing business in every industry, and publishing is no exception. When a nonfiction client refers me or introduces me (usually through email) to a potentially new writer, almost inevitably the writer follows up with an email suggesting times when we should talk on the phone. She always has a list of book ideas she'd like to discuss and I never get the feeling she has a book proposal.
Frankly, I still haven't quite figured out how I want to handle these situations. More often than not these phone calls end with me saying that the idea sounds viable, and rarely do I ever see a proposal when I tell the author that's what I would need. Now, I've scheduled time out of my day to have the call, wasted time explaining the business to an author, and nothing much comes from it.
So I've responded via email instead, explaining how the process works in publishing and letting the author know I'd need to hear more about the book. The author, of course, seems miffed that I can't take the time for a phone call and, again, I never see a proposal.
Most of the authors I experience this with are business authors, and obviously they are doing business in the way they are used to. I don't think it's wrong, it just doesn't necessarily work for publishing.
It's the same with authors. I'll bet a week doesn't go by that a friend of a friend or a distant cousin wants to either have lunch or a lengthy phone conversation about how they can get their book published.
Of course, I always do it. Just part of the gig.
But business people are sales people, and anyone 'selling' anything (in this case themselves and their book) ought to do the research on the 'customer' (Jessica) first... if they did they would already understand the business of approaching an agent.
Maybe you should let your writers know that you appreciate them sending potential clients your way, but that you'd prefer the potential clients to approach you prepared with a,b, and c. That way they can pass the word on to the hopefuls. They should understand since they likely had to go through the same thing.
Ms Trite says,
'talk-about' goes "across the board."
In my business everybody wants a job but very few are willing to do the work.
Many writers...come on, fess up, you know who you are...LOVE to talk about writing but when it come down to the nuts and bolts of putting the erector set together, quit when the screwdriver rolls under the table.
Ms. Trite also says if you are going to talk the talk then walk the walk. We all know Ms. Trite isn't the one who said that but she likes to take the credit because she knows everything about everything.
How many of us will sign off this blog today and then actually write the proposal or work on the novel or fine tune the query?
Ms. Trite is going to the beach with her latest issue of Writer's Digest.
Yes, time is money. Instead, I think you should listen to writers that have gotten a million rejections but have still gotten published anyway! And writers like me that always read your Blog and have even gone through the arduous process of learning how to create her own Blog to join in on the conversation.
Sheila Cull
Hi Jessica,
Hear hear! As a writer for magazines, newspapers and now books, I know first hand that the publishing world would grind to a halt if every single bit of business was done by phone. As a journalist and now novelist, I depend on e-mail, not the phone. I even highly encouraged people I needed to interview to send me their replies via e-mail (due to having to transcribe that conversation and get approval on those quotes later).
Publishing (and not just the book kind) is highly dependent on e-mails. And since I realized that early on, I've gotten plum assignments--including a book deal--this way.
The sooner non-authors realize that this is the way to do business in publishing (as well as having a finished product, be it proposal or manuscript, to back up the e-mail), the sooner they'll see success in our industry.
One of my best friends has been an agent for over thirty years. I've known him for fifteen. And in that time I've only recommended one author (and only because I read the author's work first). My agent friend didn't take on the author, however, I still felt good about how things went. The author was a professional. And I helped the author present the proposal so I wouldn't look bad.
A great deal of the responsibility falls on the person making the recommendation. And if this isn't done, any polite e-mail you write should be just fine. Most businesses, from real estate to publishing, have different protocols. You shouldn't be faulted for someone else's mistake.
Seems to me that the onus of explaining the publishing process belongs on the writer/client who referred the person to you.
If they are going to refer someone to you - which will ultimately be a reflection on them - then they should do all they can to make sure the person is aware of what is expected of them.
Publishing is a self-regulating system as long as agents refuse to get on the phone.
There is amazingly little which actually requires a phone conversation. One should stick with email whenever possible.
I have had exactly three telephone conversations with my agent. The first was when he wanted to discuss the book manuscript I'd sent him. The second was two years later when he sold it, The third was when he told me that I should drop my current project and do what the editor recommended, which was a different project. And since that recommendation did not come with any money behind him. It became probably the last conversation I'll ever have with him, unless one of us ends up suing the other. Go find another agent, probably have no more than three or four conversations with her either.
I'm looking for someone who can sell my books and help move my career ahead. I'm not looking for a fricken girlfriend
Business people should especially have the tools in place to do their research and understand the NF submission process. End of story. My husband is being referred to one of the top music agents here in LA through a music supervisor referral. He has made 100% sure he is following protocol on every level and isn't calling her or pestering her for a meeting. For someone to assume they deserve special attention because they are a referral is myopic and rude.
I've sent a number of authors your way, but I generally tell them to check out either this blog or the FAQ page on your website first. http://www.bookends-inc.com/faqs.html
Everything you ever wanted to know about the process is on the website. Unfortunately, you can't FORCE people to read the instructions!
Thank you for this reminder that writing is a business and must be approached in a professional manner. I have several book ideas. It sounds as though I should flesh them out in a book proposal and query agents that work with the specific type of book. http://acamphosthousewifesmeanderings.com/ http://levonnesprettypics.blogspot.com/
I was wondering how you dealt with the author who referred? Was that awkward as well?
Hi its really very nice blog i enjoyed a lot to visit..Mobiles
The interview ranks as one of the top responsibilities of freelance writers. Whether you interview a local athlete who set a new record or a best-selling author, preparing for the interview and asking the right questions will lead to a successful story.
I seldom cold call and conduct the interview. I learned early in my writing career that interview subjects seldom like to be blindsided. Set up a time for an in-person, telephone or e-mail interview and make sure you're on time. Just before I get to the heart of the interview, I like to double check that it's a good time to talk. As writers, we realize that interruptions can derail plans. Showing courtesy to your interview subject not only exhibits professionalism, but it lets the interviewee know you have their schedule in mind, too.
Now, let's jump into the interview. If you've done your research, you've hopefully come up with a list of questions. But don't overlook the obvious. Often, these q-and-a's will provide a candid view into the subject.
Once I've gone through my list, I like to ask if the interviewee can think of additional information I may need for the piece. Sometimes they'll direct me to other sources, which may mean a new story idea.
When I'm interviewing, I like to take notes about the subject's demeanor: the look in her eye, tone of voice, fidgety behavior. Those personal details add a personable touch to a story.
Finally, I ask if it will be OK to call again or send an e-mail if I have follow-up questions. Occasionally, an interviewee has scheduled a time with me for the day following the interview. Again, writers need to remember that this person has a schedule too, and it's courteous and professional to ask.
Once the interview has concluded, I like to send a thank you note or postcard to the interviewee. I usually receive a thank-you-for-the-handwritten-note note in return. It's a networking bonus!
Perfecting your interview style will enhance your writing and set your apart from others. It should be the sharpest tool in a freelancer's toolbox.
by LuAnn Schindler. Learn more about LuAnn and her writing endeavors at http://luannschindler.com or follow her on Facebook or Twitter - @luannschindler.Display Comments
Super tips, as usual. Thanks LuAnn!
Great tips, especially for those of us who do interviews for newspapers, etc.
I use those questions for every interview when I write for the newspaper. I'm always amazed at how much extra info I get that works into a sidebar or even another story.
Great advice! Thanks for sharing it.
Another handy-dandy list of reminders for conference goers! Be considerate of others: Don't bring your children to a writers conference. Turn your cell phone to off or vibrate. If you receive an emergency call, step out of the room to talk. Don't text during sessions. Be on time to sessions. If you must leave a session for a critique (or any other reason) sit near the door and leave (or re-enter
Jean,

This is handy dandy indeed.

Linda A.
Jean:
 Thank you for all the pointers. When I went to my first conference, I didn't know very many of these points of etiquette.
 I learn so much from blog entries like this and from an online group to which I subscribe.

 Thanks again
Great pointers, Jean!!!

Thanks for sharing!!

Love, hugs, and prayers to you my friend!
I wonder if it's considered acceptable to pick up a handout for another conference goer who is attending a different session than you are. Sometimes sessions we really want to attend are offered at the same time. What do you think, Jean?
Cheryl,

At every conference I've attended many presenters have invited people to pick up their notes if they couldn't attend their workshop.

But posting those notes on a blog or website, or distributing copies to your critique group, etc. is a real no-no unless the presenters grants permission.

Blessings,
Jean
WHat a great list, my friend. I need to print this off for me, too!

hugs,
Donna
We have a joke among my friends that there's Work Jessica and just plain old Jessica. Hopefully all of you really only ever see Work Jessica.
Work Jessica is my game face. It's the image I want to present to the public. It means that I dress a certain way and act a certain way. And while, hopefully, Work Jessica isn't too far off from regular Jessica, there are subtle differences. And no, I'm not going to tell you what they are and ruin the illusion.
Recently, at a conference, I was walking around, sort of confused actually. I had come out of one room in the giant hotel and was trying to get my bearings. I'll admit, I was probably weaving and a little scattered. You know the person, you're trying to walk around her, and just as you are about to go left she weaves left and when you try right she turns right. Well, I was that weaver and yes, it's irritating, but, since we're at a conference, we all have our game faces on so we grin (albeit tightly) and finally make our way around. Well, that's what we should do.
Apparently the woman behind me didn't feel the same way. Her solution to the situation was to storm by me, sighing deeply and huffing just a little. She was obviously irritated. The problem with this is that she didn't know who I was. If she was an unagented author she had just acted incredibly rudely to a potential agent. If she was a bestselling author she had just acted very rudely to a potential reader, and if she was an agented but unpublished author she could have acted very rudely to a potential editor. See, here's the thing: When at a business event like that we don't know who's listening in, watching, and just generally paying attention to our every move. And that's why it's important to keep our game faces on. When you get up to your room, the door is shut and it's just you and your roommate and you're allowed to huff and puff all you want, but when out in public I implore you to try as hard as you can to keep that public persona as charming as possible.
The label you used says it all. Professionalism. You need it in any career you choose to pursue.
Good post! I think this can be applied to the general world outside publishing as well. You never know who you're showing your bad behavior to. Even if someone is making you crazy, I think the only very good thing to do is smile politely and let them finish up. Hurry them along if you must. But always be patient and nice.
Hi Jessica-
Same problem here. When I write, I'm me, but I work for the government, so I have to be uber-professional at all time (even though I am among some of the most hated people in the country these days - sigh.)
Great post -TX
Which, frankly, is why I as an author find conferences so exhausting. Some authors seem to thrive on it, but I treat them as a work situation and bring the energy and charm-initiative way up and by the end of a day all I want to do is go back to the room and lie down.
(Also, just food for thought, many people, myself included, often have difficulty hearing conversations around a table in a room filled with 400 people talking. So my somewhat fixed smile may actually be that I can't hear what anybody's saying).
Good advice, Jessica. I did an interview not long ago with a writer who also served as a "first reader" for a publishing house. She was sitting down to a meal at a writer's conference when another woman shoved her aside, saying, "I have to sit at her table. I have to meet her."
Of course, the editor the shover had to meet was the woman for whom the woman she shoved aside worked. Not a great way to make an impression.
At a recent conference, I was trying to find the room containing the panel I wanted to sit in on. I was aggravated and annoyed. And there was an unassuming woman who looked even more lost than I felt.
So I took the minute to stop and see if I could help her. After all, maybe she was headed where I was.
Nope. As I escorted her to where she was going, she confessed: she was Janet Reid, Literary Agent.
Sorry I wasn't there to rescue you, too, Jessica.
A few years back the company I worked for held a seminar relating to how WE are all each other's customers. Doesn't matter which business or which side of the counter you stand on.
Daily I am astounded by how rude some people are; as if entitlement allows them elevation above the rest of us.
When I am in a position whereby I am able to ask, why are you being so rude to me, (the opportunity is rare because I need to keep my job),each explained their frustration both personal or professional as the catalyst for their behavior and apologized.
Though this does not excuse their behavior sometimes people simply lack the filter and ability to just act decent.
Some are stupid and some believe the world must make way for them, like your huffer.
I will admit if I had to pee and you were in my way I'd probably huff, lest I have liquid filling my shoes.
This same sort of thing happened to me at a conference. It was my first conference and I had to ask how to get to the Q & A editor panel. The woman (who was a conference organizer, it's not like I was asking a stranger) rudely gave me the info, and then, when I was still in earshot, commented to her friend how the attendees get "dumber" every year. Wow.
And I agree with Mark Terry -- those coferences are loud!! I was sitting at Kristen Nelson's lunch table at that same conference, and didn't hear a word she said.
Enough of this god-awfully stifling etiquette. Who needs Big Brother making us miserable when there are hordes of hyper-sensitive little nitpicking micro-tyrants threatening to ostracize anyone who doesn't strive for Miss Manners sainthood.
Professionalism is not about emulating the Stepford Wives. True professionalism is about making wise and ethical business choices, which is clearly not what people are doing if not walking around with a smile sewn on is going to endanger someone's career.
If this is how publishing "pros" really make decisions, then the industry deserves to die.
You don't want to "ruin the illusion." LOL ... made my morning!!
Marcus, I'll bet you're the guy who parks next to the yellow curb to tun in for your meds. Guess what, you are a rude person.
Sew a smile on sweetie because the world which watches you is the world which might just save your arrogant ass someday. From the UPS driver to the guy administering your chemo, from the grocery bagger to the EMT pumping on your chest, smile baby, heaven is not a sad place.
I'm off to work, customers beware, so if you want to rant at me, go for it, though it may make you feel better I can't hear you.
I think the best practice is to treat everyone warmly, regardless of their status. And to also be forgiving of those who may be having a tough day.
I'm a firm believer in the Southern attitude--honey gathers more bees than vinegar.
How hard is it to say, "please" and "thank you" or "can I help you"? How hard is it to hold the door open for someone? Or actually THANK someone for their door holding effort rather than breezing through like it was your right?
I'm an older parent (this {} close to getting my AARP card), but I'm teaching my daughter by example.
There's a reason Southern women call 'Hon' or "sugar" because they are too polite to call you the nasty words.
I purposely leave my name tag off at conferences just to see what people are really like. It's actually kind of fun. Some are terrific like Susan (thank you for rescuing me! I was SO frustrated and angry that night!)
Some are, as Jessica pointed out, not quite ready for prime time.
People are always nice when they know "who you are." The ones I remember are the ones who are nice when they don't.
This is so true in every walk of life.
The town I live in is steadily going from small to mid-sized, thanks to an awesome school district, but the core residents are still here. It's funny how the newcomers do not realize it. You say something bad or mistreat someone, you are liable to tick a whole herd of people off.
This reminds me of the ABC show "Undercover Boss" where the CEO of Waste Management worked for different lowly departments. The gal who invited him home for supper had no clue who he was, but she sure was rewarded later for her kindness and generosity.
Agents, we may be unknown writers now but perhaps if you take a longer look, you'll find gold in the slush pile or at conferences.
I get what you're saying and agree.
But I think it's also important to behave nicely no matter where you are or what you're doing. This is a concept of basic good manners that's becoming so ignored these days by so many people with this sense of entitlement.
Nice post!!
Good point to keep in mind when we all blog, too. It's often tempting to let a bad morning or a perceived anonymity loosen our censors but you never know who you are crossing virtual paths with out there, and a simple quip can do serious damage.
You won't ever risk burning a bridge for being too kind.
I work for a well known humanitarian organization and when you're on a disaster relief assignment, you've to keep the compassion flowing. Can't show irritation or impatience (or exhaustion). Luckily, most of the people we meet/help make this very easy. Others...not so much.
This reminds me of an experience at Comic-Con this year. Everyone--including the panelists--had to wait in a huge long line for a Pixar presentation. Someone tried to cut, and the guy behind me called out, "Dude--you can't do that! Wait your turn." The guy cutting in line walked over to him and gave him a nasty chew-out.
I don't think he knew that the guy he yelled at was Michael Giacchino, composer of soundtracks "Up" and "Star Trek,"--the panelist everyone was lining up to see. (The dude didn't get in.)
I recently read a quote - I can't remember who wrote it - that basically said that true character is shown not by how we treat the people who can give us something, but by how we treat those who can not.
I'm pretty good with this, except when I'm behind the wheel of a car. Then, I turn into a raving lunatic.
I need to work on that.
Anon. 9:19, I liked what you said.
I honestly think you will find the same me at work, at church, at the country club, at my son's school etc. I so hate fakes and I hate when people, once they know you you are, buddy up to you. (I get this a lot in my profession)I am who I am wherever I am. I don't put on a "game face" or pretend etc. I honestly feel that if we meet on the golf course at the country club I am the same person you will meet sweating rivers in the indoor cycling class or on the principal's advisory committee. And I couldn't imagine it any other way.
Love this post :)
I think it applies to all sitautions in life. When I'm teaching, one of my lines to my students is "Everything you do is practice for the adult you're going to be. Is that the person who you want to be?" Same kind of thing applies here. :)
Loved this post. Been a teacher, govt employee - no matter where you go, this is absolutely true.
I'm "that weaver" almost every day. And on the streets of Chicago, that can be dangerous.
"Game Face"
Thank you! I finally have a name for it. Someone just lost me over a lack of Game Face, as a matter of fact.
I loved todays post.
Went to work after posting at 8:47 and 9:17 and I'm back, jeez I need to get a life.
Anyway, I smiled all day and guess what, I got smiles back and had a great day, I even got two pissy customers laughing. They should give me a raise.
You get back what you give.
I think that's a case of burning bridges. You never want to make a bad first impression on anyone--even if you don't know them! They could end up being your professor, your dentist, your mother-in-law...and you may not even know that you pissed them off when you let your facade slip. It's a small world, after all.
On the other side of things, I find myself in awe when someone is able to be themselves 100% in all situations--in business, in play, in casual. These are the ones people tend to gravitate toward.
Loved this post today. When I read it, I thought of this folksy saying from my coworker's grandfather: "No matter how high a bird flies in the sky, it always has to come down low to get a drink of water."
Basically, even the most successful people in the world need help sometimes. So you should ALWAYS wear your "game face," no matter where you are.
I once saw an uncensored version of an agent's game face at a conference--he took a cell phone call in the secluded corner I found to unwind in.
Apparently, this agent's game face involved threats and profanity to whoever was on the other end--and it sounded like this was his version of negotiating. I could picture some people thinking this was a good thing, but it really put me off.
The game face. I have an actor friend (quite famous) who says it's so tiring to always "be on". But he has to do it because the fans, the media, his audience, they all expect that.
When I go to conferences I get tired, my feet hurt, I'm hungry for something that isn't served with fries, I feel lost, I don't want to smile anymore, I want to be "known" yet I'm a nobody, and so it goes on. But I don't huff. I NEVER huff. ; )
I guess I'll always be one of those weavers because my head is so full of my own thoughts that I never know where I'm going.
Sorry, all, but the reason you should be nice to others is not because you could be jeopardising your career by hacking off an undercover agent/editor/whatever/some person you'll need later. The reason you should be nice is because it is appropriate and civilised behaviour. Should it turn out that the little old lady you helped cross the street is Someone's Mother, that's a bonus.
Do the right thing.
In this situation, she should have at least flashed you to get over.
I so agree with Anon 12:31. Always Do The Right Thing. Period.
Such a good post, and you are so right. Years ago a best selling author was incredibly rude to me at a conference. I will NEVER buy her books, and I don't care how much people rave about them. She wasn't a very nice person, and that did it for me. (And I probably wouldn't have made a big deal of it, except I saw her pulling the Diva act on a few others at the same event.)
What goes around, comes around, and being kind and polite takes a lot less effort than turning on the bad attitude.
[reader's name deleted to protect identity] comment prompted me to check his web page, which turns out to be little more than political screed full of hatred and vile language.
We all know agents (like prospective employers) check out potential clients online. I don't mean to pick on [reader]. Rather, this is an earnest question:
When a prospective client's blog or website is full of political ranting (from the left or right), does this affect your decision to represent them, either negatively or positively?
Wouldn't it be nice if I could say, "No, absolutely not," but let's be honest. It will or could, in the same way any political thoughts or rantings I might share on this blog would impact whether or not you might want me to represent you.
Now, certainly you'll have people who might reject you because your beliefs are different from theirs. In fact, a few years ago I shared a story with you about an editor who rejected a project I was pitching because of his political beliefs. They didn't align with those of the project, which, granted, was a current affairs/political project. But something I don't want you to forget is that you might also have people who would not want to represent you because although they might agree with your opinions, they might not like the fact that you're ranting. Your style of expressing those opinions might be a turn-off.
Ultimately, if the project is great enough, many agents will overlook "rantings"; that being said, ranting can say a lot more about you as a person than simply what your political beliefs are. How you present yourself might say to an agent that you're difficult to work with, or would be a handful, and even a great project might not be worth that because, as an old boss of mine used to say, "life is too short."
Once on the web, always on the web. Used to be true about putting things in writing, too - before shredders.
Beliefs, political and otherwise, seem to change with the way life is treating you. SO I would have to agree, be careful - the whims of youth are often the regrets of maturity.
I know first hand. I should have NEVER dated that pro footbal player.
Foaming at the mouth is always a dangerous thing, because it looks like you're trolling for someone to bite, and may not be too discerning about your victim. Ranters make me nervous.
On the other hand, people who believe the opposite of me without the angst don't pose any problems. We'll probably get along just fine.
I doubt Mel Gibson (an extreme example, but a good one) would have an easy time finding an agent these days. The Dixie Chicks and Ted Nugent both cut way into their fan base with political ranting. If you are just starting out, I doubt you could get away with it at all. Whatever you think, 50% of the country disagrees with you. Add in the fact that you are unlikely to change anyone's opinion and it doesn't seem worth it.
I believe political or religious or any other type of ranting on a writer's blog speaks to their professionalism...or lack there of. If a writer feels the need to post their tirades, they should do it on a separate site.
"they might not like the fact that you're ranting."
This is it.
I've avoided publishing professionals for this. I believe people deserve respect by virtue of being born human. An author or aspiring author deserves, additionally, professional courtesy. So, if they're ranting like this in general disrespect of other humans' opinions and culture, it makes me believe I will receive little respect either. I don't want to be published bad enough to put up with being treated like crap. And I don't have to. Most people are nice enough.
Heck, I've gone to certain author's websites and found them to be narccissistic (sp?) and self-congratulatory to the point where I've never had a desire to read any of their subsequent books.
So, yeah, I'd probably do the same if they were into political rants on the left OR right. Who wants THAT voice in your head while you're trying to enjoy a book? There's plenty of other authors to read.
There is a writer whom I respect a lot - gives great advice to aspiring writers, seems to be a very good person in general and is a talented writer. However, lately via some posts on her blog, I've discovered that we could not be more opposite as far as our political leanings. And I admit that it has affected how I feel about her. Part of this is because her beliefs are very extreme to one side of the political spectrum, and I don't react well to anyone who can't manage to at least try to understand that there's a middle ground. But I confess that I'm less likely to go to her website any more. I just don't need the increase in blood pressure.
I can name 2 blogging agents who posted their political leanings in the last election cycle and I was dumbfounded at what I perceived as a lack of judgment and intelligence in their logic and reasoning.
So I would never trust them to represent me professionally and won't submit to them.
Is this good or bad?
If it's merely a difference in beliefs, that should not preclude a business arrangement, which is the basis of author-writer contract. If one side of the duo rants, life is too harrying already to be bothered with it. Unless, as in the Mel Gibson suggestion, there's a great deal of money involved. Then the agent or her organization would have to decide how much they would swallow for how many dollars. And I don't doubt Mel can be as sweet as his name if he wishes.
Expressing one's opinion is simply not the same as ranting. My composition students are taught analytical skills, not just given topics to argue, for I want them to think, not just open their mouths and argue a thesis.
I assume my agent and publisher will need to agree, at least in general, with the leanings of my works, but outside the literature itself, my views don't really pertain. Because my blog is viewed by vast groups of people, I need to remember it's not a place to air dirty laundry, insult or disrespect others, use profanity, or be unprofessional.
Interesting post. I agree with Eleven Eleven.
I come across hate on a lot of blogs.
"I hate this. I hate that."
It's hard to read, and it closes the author off from a lot of people. Yes, give your opinions - but don't rant about them. Rant easily turns into hate, and hatred runs deep.
I've been reading your blog for a while now but this is my first comment/question. I completely understand the aversion to political "ranting," and share it. How about writers who have spent part of their careers as advocates writing about hot-button issues? A google search would quickly pull up plenty of political writing, but does it make a difference if it is professionally written, well-researched, and pursuasive without being "ranting"? I suppose each agent/editor/reader draws her/his own line but I do hope a distinction is made between uninformed political spewing and more thoughtful writing.
I would take this even further and mention the need to avoid political ranting on Facebook or strong stands on one side or the other of the political spectrum in any public forum. There are a couple of authors I've read for years who made some terribly opinionated comments over the past year and I find myself bypassing their books in the stores, now. It's almost a subliminal thing, because I didn't realize until I quit reading them exactly WHY I no longer felt interested.
We all have opinions, but there is a time and a place for everything.
On the flip side, I generally notice when an agent or editor expresses a tendency towards the left or right and it does affect whether or not I would want to submit work to them.
As an editor, I try not to let it affect what I accept. I've run into authors we've published who went on political facebook rants. Since a short story is not a commitment, I simply 'hid' them and moved on.
I think it's fine for authors, editors and agents to have solid and firm opinions, as long as they're willing to live with the consequences. If you're not willing to live with the consequences, then why bother speaking out at all.
Just do it well.
Ranting and going off into ridiculous tirades is bad on all levels, including politics. When you're posting or writing anything on the web you have to be responsible.
But I do tend to think it would be rather difficult for an agent/author relationship to work well if they are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.
That one's beliefs could turn an agent off makes sense, given how often you mention needing to be passionate about a project in order to take it on and try to sell it. I can't see that type of passion manifesting if the agent really disagrees with the author's viewpoints, especially if they're tied into the project and not just on a website. Of course, reading the website could also color the agent's opinion of the project, even if the project doesn't reflect the author's viewpoints on whatever issue is at stake. This happens to readers all the time; look at all the people who boycott Orson Scott Card because of his views on certain issues, even if those views aren't addressed in ENDER'S GAME. Agents can't be expected to be any different from readers in that respect.
It also demonstrates how the author is likely to conduct him/herself. Would any agent want to take on a belligerent client (especially if that client isn't an established money-maker)?
A lot of people forget that "anonymity" on the Internet extends only as far as the next mouse click. If you've said it, someone can find it.
When I was about seven, and complaining because some girls at school had written a nasty note about me, my mother told me to remember that feeling as I grew up, and also to remember that I never had to put anything in writing, but once I did it was permanent and I could never take it back. Maybe not so true when it comes to schoolgirls' notes, but scarily prophetic in terms of Internet speech.
Hm, wish I could find the article from a few months ago about openly gay editors who edit the work of openly anti-gay political figures. It was an interesting quandary.
I agree with others that the line is generally drawn between rant vs. intelligent discussion. Spouting opinions into the air is different from giving a thorough defense of a situation you are passionate about. But authors, agents, and editors who do so have to be willing to take the consequences, which could be losing readers or writers.
I've yet to come across this exact situation, but I have certainly turned down manuscripts because of their political content. Some were clearly Not Right For Me (manifesto on the secret feminist conspiracy to castrate all men? nothx) but others are more subtle. There was one where I felt some of the secondary characters were racist stereotypes. Stereotypes, of course, are a marker of bad writing anyway, so the racist part just made it worse. But with that work, it wasn't until I talked with the author and they said they didn't see a problem with it and didn't want to change it that I decided we were clearly not a good match.
That is why I would be hesitant to take on anyone whose beliefs run strongly counter to the beliefs I hold dearest in my core. Likely that author's beliefs would eventually leak into one of their manuscripts and I might find myself in the position of trying to sell a book that I think doesn't belong on bookshelves.
Beliefs I feel that strongly about are few, though, and in the example above, the unwillingness to edit went hand-in-hand with racism so I didn't need to choose between professional and personal. But I would have chosen personal. I guess that's what any manuscript comes down to. "Other agents might want it, but I don't."
I have a feeling I'd like that old boss of yours Jessica.
I have a feeling I'd like that old boss of yours Jessica.
An agent/client relationship has to be first and foremost a "relationship". Which means ideally the two of you are people who would get along well in real life.
For example, if I am a gay agent, and I see that you openly support politicians who are proponents of legislation that I feel is designed to infringe upon my civil rights as a gay human being (ie, DADT, California's Prop 8) , it's a foregone conclusion that I won't want to be your agent.
Everything you write on your blog is something that an agent can and will look at to determine whether or not he or she will be a good fit with you.
And most agents will do this before they ever make that phone call to you.
I am *not advocating* lying about who you are, what you believe in or censoring yourself online. But this is something to consider as you go forward in the querying process.
I would assume being a d-bag in either direction wouldn't generally work in an aspiring author's favor *shifty eyes*.
Amy B -
As an agent, editor or writer, you have the choice as to whether or not to work with someone whose political/religious/personal beliefs are very different than yours or are indeed offensive to you.
But there are a lot of publishing professionals who don't have this luxury. I know several very liberal/left-leaning publicists who were forced to work with notorious right-wing writers because they had no choice. They were total professionals about the whole thing but that did not mean they had to like it. I once had to work on Catholic book by a writer who complained to the head of the publishing company about having a "dyke" publicist. Note: I never mentioned my sexuality to this writer. He made assumptions based upon my dress and hairstyle. I was harassed by this man throughout the entirely of the time I worked on his book, yet I managed to keep my mouth shut and behave like a professional during the publicity campaign. I simply had no choice.
But several years later, I turned down a job at a publishing company where I knew that one of the authors whose campaigns I would be working on was a well-known right-wing television hate-monger. When HR asked why i was turning down the position, I told them the truth.
(Sorry for all the typos in the previous comment!)
Honestly, I think if an agent/writer's site is professional, I shouldn't know their political beliefs. It has no bearing on the business unless you're publishing politically-based writing.
Excellent post. I agree that if it is a well-written and rational argument or statement, then it is acceptable. After all, we have every right to practice freedom of press and speech. I have not hidden my personal or political opinions in my blog and tweets, but I do try to avoid actual rants. I am, however, full of opinions, and I do believe in using the skills I have to promote ideas and causes I believe and support. I have wondered, as an aspiring kidlit/YA writer, if that would be a problem during the submission and querying process. However, I really would not want to work with someone who considered it a problem, so the filter-effect is probably a good thing :)
@clindsay: I admire your strength and conviction in standing up for your beliefs. And your patience for knowing when to choose professionalism over personal issues, though I think harassment of any kind is reason enough not to work with someone. It seems that is the key for balance- knowing when to speak up and when to stay silent :)
I have had the benefit of working with people (truly) representing every demographic from yellow dog democrat to republican, from athiest to Wiccan to conservative Christian, from every ethnicity, income level, age and orientation. Working relationships thrive on unique skillsets and personalities, which I why I value a complimentary personality over my own. Experience and belief informs perspective, and I know my own perfectly well.
Having said that, I do not write in an argument-based niche, so the moment personality, personal belief, negative opinions (via rant as opposed to misinterpretation), and tubthumps begin to overshadow the writing itself those differences, thereby inhibiting the actual goal of creating a successful novel and career, then it is no longer a productive partnership. Professionalism is the operative word. What or who is doing the talking...the writing, the writer, the agent? I suspect it is somewhat different with editors and agents, but I think the premise remains the same.
"Your actions speak so loudly that I cannot hear what you say."
— Ralph Waldo Emerson
I experienced just the opposite situation after submitting a contest entry to an agent who was running an online contest. The first prize was representation with her agency.
I came across her ultra-right-wing, racist rantings on her private blog during the last presidential election. There was no way I could work with that kind of person, so I withdrew my entry.
I fall in with the "it's how you present your ideas" feeling here. As Colleen points out, some of our beliefs are fundamental outgrowths of who we are and what we hold most dear. To pretend that doesn't matter or exist is silly. My mother, later in life, has married a man with totally different political beliefs than "the family" has always had. But he's so good as discussing his ideas that I love talking with him. During the last divisive Presidential campaign, I would ask him to explain the other camp's thinking. We have a terrific relationship that I truly enjoy.
Ms Trite says, he who speaks the loudest has a deaf audience.
He who whispers is heard by all.
She who is silent...someone put ducktape over her mouth.
I know...it's duct tape.
duh !
Well, I'm sorry if this is inflammatory, it's not meant to be. But the lack of ethical oversight into the entire publishing industry bothers me.
Refusing to work with someone based on their political views - isn't that illegal?
I realize it happens all the time, but people hide it. For a professional to come right out and way they won't work with someone who leans one way or another is discriminatory. Isn't it?
(Jessica - I'm not pointing fingers at you. I hear this all the time on the web, so I'm glad we can discuss it.)
If it's not, it should be. This goes both ways. For someone to complain about working with a 'dyke' editor is called harrassment, and is completely inappropriate. If the 'boss' complied with that request, the editor could have an actionable suit.
It seems to me the publishing industry can actively discriminate against anyone on the basis of gender, race, sexuality, religious affiliation and political views, amoung other distinctions, with absolutely no fear of consequences.
Isn't that wrong?
I figure it this way: You can't isolate separate identities anymore. Anything you do will affect your overall "brand."
I don't think it does anyone any good to hide things or to be cowardly in anything you do. (For goodness sakes don't be bland!)
Perhaps if you were writing fiction that had a strong political bias, it might be reasonable for that to be a part of your overall web persona. But you have to think hard on anything you do online.
Bad editing strikes again.
"...which I why I value a complimentary personality over a likeminded one."
(and anyone else who questions the legality of working with someone because of political beliefs)
let me point you toward Lewis Maltby's book Can They Do That? I think this will answer a lot of the questions you pose. http://us.penguingroup.com/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9781591842828,00.html?Can_They_Do_That?_Lewis_Maltby
Also keep in mind that, as others have said, an agent is taking you on to help build your career and create "you" the brand. If the agent feels that you are potentially compromising your brand the decision isn't necessarily a political one.
As for your statement, "It seems to me the publishing industry can actively discriminate against anyone on the basis of gender, race, sexuality, religious affiliation and political views, amoung other distinctions, with absolutely no fear of consequences."
I don't agree. I think accusing the publishing industry of racism, etc is incredibly different from "rantings" which is what this post is about.
Thank you for the link! I'll check that book out, because I do wonder about the difference between an employee and a client, in terms of the legalities.
And I do think the spirit of your post is much more about how 'ranting' on the web can push people away - both prospective publishers or readers. However, you mentioned an editor who refused to consider a project because it doesn't align with his political beliefs. That's more to the point of my concern. Something that has bothered me for awhile, and the time just felt right to bring it up.
But first, I really hope you didn't feel I was accusing YOU of discrimination. That was not something I was saying in any way, shape or form.
My statement was more generic. I was also not saying the Industry IS disciminating, I was expressing a concern that it CAN. Or individuals within it can, specifically against writers. Employees have their protections, although they may not always feel safe enough to pursue them. But let's say, for example, an editor decides only to publish men - could they do that? Seems to me the subjectivity of the industry can allow for that type of discrimination to hide. In addition - and this is the part that really bothers me - there are no sanctions in place, and little recourse. The code of ethics for agents doesn't include discrimination, and I don't even see a code of ethics for publishers.
I hope this isn't coming across as hostile, because I absolutely don't feel that way. I'm just opening the door for a conversation about this. I also acknowledge that it's a bit of a can of worms, because of the subjectivity of the industry, but I think it's still a topic worth exploring.
Thanks for the opportunity to do that.
Oh, I want to add one thing.
The impact the Publishing Industry has on the world is HUGE. It's a small industry, so that fact can be hidden, but what books are published, and what books are not published, has a powerful influence over the world. In addition, the publishing industry feeds other industries, like movies and television, which have an even more powerful impact.
Ethical concerns regarding the publishing industry are a really big deal. Even though, it may seem, at first glance, that they aren't - They are.