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Lap dance at stag do(550 Posts)
I'm getting married a week today. Dp's stag was last night. He knows how I feel about strippers, and that I don't agree with it. He had a lap dance in a stretch hummer. I feel disgusted thinking about a naked woman grinding on his lap- I feel like he has been unfaithful. How do I get over this?
Did he tell you about it or did you find out another way?
He told me. He was disgustingly drunk when he got in. Two of his friends slept on our sofas and were going on about the stripper this morning as well and how amazing she was!
The friends are arseholes saying that in front of you.
Lap dances in hummers now? I imagine that required some contortions...
Do you mean he told you when he was drunk, or he quietly sat you down when he was sober to tell you?
Hmm. Tricky. I assume one of his mates organised it? In which case, it wouldn't have been that easy, particularly once the drink was flowing, to look the other way.
<hugs to you though>
Very out of order of his friends. His best man joked that dp 'licked her minge' just to rub it in. He told me when he was drunk and we talked about it when we got up this morning. But his friends talking about it, saying that it is animal instinct, when I told them I didn't agree with it, has made me feel physically sick. I don't want dp to touch me. He had a choice, he could've told her to get off, but he didn't.
Tricky if you are getting married in a week - had you already expressed your dismay/that this was a deal breaker? Are there any other issues or is this a one off mistake? I don't think i'd call off my pending marriage because of it but I can't abide this kind of shit. Just because the P doesn't enter the V doesn't make it right.
If it was a stripper organised by the stags I would feel differently than if he'd actively PAID for a lapdance.
Wow, his best man sounds like an absolute prick. I wouldn't have him at my wedding if he came out with that crap.
Shame thanks, I agree. In any other situation, having a naked woman on top of you is cheating, I don't get why this is seen as acceptable as the stag? I can't call off the wedding, I do love him, but he knew this was something I hate and he chose to disrespect me.
I was shocked that he said that. They are 28 and not teenagers. My dp didn't say anything when the best man said he licked her minge (his exact words!)
Oh the best man's speech should be a corker Pathetic.
I woudn't be marrying someone who'd had a lapdance from a naked woman - how disrespectful. And a stripper too. Nice. Sorry I know eveyone has their own limits but it would be a dealbreaker for me. And his friends sound about 12.
So sorry OP, how horrible for you.
Dp says that she was on top of him for a matter of seconds before he told her to get off... But he would say that wouldnt he. It was arranged by the best man. How disgustingly stereotypical and tragic. And apparently I need to 'get over it' as it has happened.
I really dislike that stag mentality. Perfectly reasonable, sensible men seem to turn into utter idiots when they get together and the alcohol is flowing. Does he understand how upset you are?
Yes he knows how upset I am, ring is off and I'm crying in bed.
I'm quite surprised that the friends have mentioned it. IME, guys tend to close ranks on stuff like this and keep it quiet.
I feel really sorry for you OP, this is a horrible thing to deal with a week before your wedding.
so would he be ok if you sucked someones cock on a hen night?
animal instinct .
id call off the wedding
Well if he thinks you should just get over it, tell him your friends are arranging for you to get your minge licked by a hot, fit young guy who is going to grind naked on top of you and stick his arse and cock in your face for 10 minutes while all your friends watch.
Sorry, WHO told you to "get over it?" Your OH or his mates?
At the very least, that wanker would not be best man at my wedding.
He licked her genitals and can't see why you are bothered?
What's that saying about judging someone by the company they keep? He is mixing with some really horrible blokes, isn't he? At what point do you think he is different to them?
I agree with clam, the best man should not be part of the wedding.
worrybynature - You are hurt and in shock but don't do anything rash. To be honest if it was organised by the best man (who sounds like a prize cock) I would give your DP the benefit of the doubt ON THIS OCCASION ONLY. He didn't actively go to a strip club or pay for a lapdance. He wasn't active in making this happen. Like other posters said - the best (worst?) man does not deserve to be at your wedding.
I doubt he did 'lick her minge' people! Strippers don't generally tolerate that sort of thing! Sounds like best man stirring things up like a complete dick.
Agree with everything shame has said.
"Get over it" that's so nasty of them. I'm furious on your behalf.
Strippers don't generally tolerate that sort of thing!
That is a very naive view of what goes on with a lot of strippers.
dear lord what a vile story
the best man sounds repellent. you do not have to "get over it" your P needs to make an effort to treat you properly. It doesn't sound as though he has the maturity to be making a (hopefully) lifetime commitment.
for you OP
Did he really lick her? From what I know of male friends who have had lap dances that would be very, very unusual. His friends may be winding you both up.
The best man def stirring with the minge licking comment! How hurtful. Apparently though the stripper did say they could touch her if they all paid £10
Oh dear what a nightmare.
It's a big thing to call the wedding off this late but at the same time the fact he has mates with this appalling attitude would concern me more. That and the fact that he's not in anyway trying to understand how you feel about it and make amends.
This is not the kind of man I'd want to marry tbh.
Can you stay with a mate for a few days to get some thinking time.
Maybe you could tell him you will be checking out a few hit guys while you are away and giving their cocks a quick suck just for your own pleasure
This is really horrible for you as you feel like this about strippers and he knew. Did the best man know he was not supposed to organise a stripper?
Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons... If your dp hadn't made your position clear to his friends then a stripper climbs into the limo and surprises your dp, he would have found it virtually impossible to stop it.
I know he should stopped it and I know he has disrespected your wishes, but he didn't book it.
Personally I wouldn't class this as cheating. I hate stripping and lap dances as I think they're degrading and misgynistic, but it's not cheating. I'd view it the same as if my DP had abused a homeless person for a "laugh" on a night out, or used a racial slur.
Did he really do what the best man said he did, or was he just winding you up because he knows you wouldn't like it? A stripper wouldn't bother me in the slightest, but actual contact certainly would! That's not on.
Oh I'm so sorry. My DH went on a stag do (his brothers) and it ended up in a lap dancing club, before were married.I was really upset. I surprised myself how hurt I was. It took a bit of time, tears and a lot of talking - but eventually he got it. There was no stag (or hen) do before our wedding - we did have a good night out with friends.
I didn't spell it out, but lap dance = no wedding.
If you do decide to go through with it - and I'm guessing that will all depend on his actions now, get rid of that bastard of a best man, he should no longer be invited.
That was deliberate shit stirring, the complete and utter arse hole!
Imagine what type of prick is so desperate to touch a woman's fanny and boobs that they'd pay a tenner to do so?
All men aren't like this you know op.
maybe you need to wait for a decent one to come along.
Best man knew my feelings. So did DP. I agree that dp didn't have a choice to look at the stripper as she was in the limo, but he did have a choice about her getting on top of him. She also tried to pull his trousers down.
Dp says he would have no problem if a male stripper put his naked willy in my face and gyrated on my lap?! But I wouldn't want to do that as I love dp?
I couldn't marry this man & try to build a marriage on this foundation.
One week before his wedding & he's in the back of a car with a stripper. No way.
And I'd describe myself as easygoing & open minded but no way would I be tying myself to a man who licked someone else's genitals!!!!
Is your DP remorseful OP? Sorry I can't tell
Eva - think we have established it is highly unlikely he licked her genitals! Just the stags trying to wind up OP!
That lapdance, although so degrading isnt the issue, its the downright nasty shittiness, and your idiot groom didnt say a word to stop it.
I'd tell your groom, that he needs to lose the best man or no wedding.
Dp says he would have no problem if a male stripper put his naked willy in my face and gyrated on my lap?!
Hahaha, of course he wouldn't
OP, it sounds like you need to not be in the same space as these two at the moment, do you have a supportive friend or family member you could go to for a couple of days just to clear your head and not be around the toxic bullshit they're trying to feed you.
Dp says he is sorry, but that's all very well to say it isn't it! He still did it 12 hours ago? He kept saying sorry, but it's happened we need to move on... But why do it in the first place?!
I would see this as carte Blanche to go out one night and have some fun with a naked man. Even if you don't fancy doing this, I'd certainly suggest to him that you might.
And actually, a stripper in a club I might be able to 'get over' but climbing into the back of a car & practically sitting in his face, I couldn't.
Dp says he would have no problem if a male stripper put his naked willy in my face and gyrated on my lap?!
How terribly reasonable of him! What about getting your minge licked? You licking strippers balls?He's ok with that too is he?
Look he is going to say whatever he can to minimise this.
The issue here is whether or not you can get past this. And I agree with those who say the best man shouldn't be in the wedding.
And I am still very surprised that they're all talking about this, most guys keep it as quiet as they can.
Even my mum is of the attitude that this is just a right of passage for the stag and I need to get over it!
Indeed, what exactly are they getting out of this by bringing it up, taunting you about it, minimising and telling you to get over it, all in the space of a few hours that you've know? That is beyond cruel.
'why do it in the first place?'
In short: shitloads of alcohol and a bunch of dick mates.
Poor you OP I'd be gutted
Sigh, some people still have the 'Boys will be boys' attitude in this day and age, OP. You need space to seriously think about whether you want to legally commit to someone in wake of all this new information you have about him.
Oh Worry, your DP would be horrified if you got close to another mans dick. Men can be even more jealous than women.
Look, it doesn't matter what your mum says. Or your fiance. Or what anyone on here says. What do you want to do? Understand this. You do not have to do anything you don't want to do. You can marry him if you want. Or call off the wedding if you want. Be 100% in touch with YOUR feelings and desires. Don't give a second thoughts to the money or the guests or how anyone else will feel. This is your life and your choice.
OP it doesn't matter what your mum or any of us on MN, thinks.
What matters is whether you can get over it. It's too soon to make a decision.
Is your DP reading this thread? He's certainly coming back and givng you all the 'right' answers very quickly.
It's not a right of passage - there is really no need for strippers just because someone is getting married.
xpost with nkf
rite* of passage
OK, so you can sweep this under the carpet for now, and "get over it" as "it's done now," as long as you're aware that this will rear its head again in the future sooner or later. He has mates with dodgy values, fgs he seems to have some dodgy values himself. Are you sure you want to be dealing with them forever more?
I agree with NKF and CVS, its your choice, and no one elses, just try to
get some headspace.
If you do get married, insist on a new best man.
OP, did you have inkling that this was the kind if thing he thinks is acceptable? Is it the case that DP is basically a nice bloke and his mate is a scumbag? If you see what I mean.
I think that's important because if your DP is genuinely sorry and a bit shocked at what he got himself into then that's one thing. But if this is part if a pattern of behaviour and last night was the cherry on top then I'd be having a serious re-think, if I was you.
Also, I don't like to see how some people behave so completely differently with their friends or with their partners. And when those two worlds collide as is happening to you know you've got to wonder how well you really know him...
The best man is not the point. He may be an idiot but he is presumably the fiance's friend. That tells you something right there. I don't think he should be in the picture at all.
It's a way of putting women in "their place", i.e. secondary to the male group of friends, he knew your feelings on the matter but went ahead anyway.
If he treats you with such disrespect before you are married , what will he do when you are married and have a couple of kids?
Turnip - if that is aimed at me I do not have 'boys will be boys' attitude and actually left my DP on the discovery of a (paid) lap dance hence my interest in this thread. I'm not making excuses for OP's OH but in a stag do situation where his mates have organised a stripper, he finds himself in the back of a hummer (ewww), getting egged on, arsehole drunk it would be unlikely of him to get up and take the moral high ground - which is a big shame of course. Is it worth throwing OP's pending marriage down the toilet in a relationship that was fine until now?
And in my experience, people who bang on about "moving on" and "drawing a line under things" actually mean "STFU, I don't want to face answer to what I've done."
I'm still struggling with the actual erm, logistics, of doing a lapdance in a hummer without getting touched by any of the men. Assuming there were a few guys in there, I'd like to know exactly how the stripper managed to stop any of them touching her.
You can judge a person by the company they keep. He's going to be carrying on mixing with these mates? What's to stop them repeating the exercise on the next stag night, or basic night out? They know your feelings on the matter and it didn't make a blind bit of difference this time.
Cvs god knows. It was a stretch hummer.
Dp is usually a lovely, trustworthy, loyal guy. He doesn't even drink!
CVS, it'd be awfully cramped inside a hummer, not alot of moving space. Sh
she was touched at some point.
Did he lick her or was the best man causing trouble? He didn't say anything when the best man said that, did he?
Turnip - if that is aimed at me I do not have 'boys will be boys' attitude and actually left my DP on the discovery of a (paid) lap dance hence my interest in this thread.
It wasn't, it was in reference to the OP's mother saying lap dances are a rite of passage for stags
Ever been in a stretch hummer?
I have.
I'm 4ft 10" and couldn't stand up.
I don't suppose you're going to get the truth out of any of them now. They'll have realised that the shit has hit the fan more than they thought with worry and have closed ranks.
You could tie yourself in knots trying to work out what went on. But one thing is clear - it was a pretty squalid scene. Lots of booze, drunk men, a stretch Hummer and a stripper. It's fine to hate this. It's fine to find this distasteful and not to want the participants near you. You have to make a decision. Try this exercise. If you knew that whatever you did, it would work out fine, what would you do?
I'd tell your groom, that he needs to lose the best man or no wedding.
This. I would say this. I would not risk not enjoying my day because I hated the best man. I would put it to the groom that it's the best man or me. If he won't, well....his priorities are all wrong.
I don't understand this 'winding people up' mentality. I mean the stags winding Op up about the minge licking. It isn't remotely funny, it's nasty and intending to hurt, stress her out and upset her.
Does you 'D'P usually let his friends treat you like that Op?
If this happened to me, I would feel that the whole preamble to the wedding is now ruined by this puerile, juvenile action and call off my wedding. Would not want to be married to the sort of man who thought this entertainment and I would feel humiliated by these people.
You don't have to marry this prick you know.
Turnip - ah phew
I thought the whole point of bummers was that they're huge? But that's obviously beside the point.
Are they all still at your house, OP? Chatting and laughing about their great night out?
The run up to your wedding is now ruined.
HUMMERS not bummers
I wouldn't be happy either, it's one thing having a stripper that i could just about handle, but a stripper in a hummer and then having to hear grotesque comments from the best man! I would be livid tbh, and i'm sure your dh would feel the same if you had a giant cock grinding in your face and then your mates bigging it up!
Even if you do go ahead with the wedding (and I think this is a mistake based on your posts) I think the minimum requirement would be that the "best man" (ha) does not attend.
You are going to need time to work out whether your relationship with your DP is salvageable in any form after this, let alone reach the decision to marry him.
So sorry this has happened, it must feel devastating
Was this a proper stripper? (god I hate that sentence). Itddoesn't sound overly responsible of the club to allow her into a moving vehicle with a group of men and very little space.
£10 each to touch her suggests otherwise, too.
Caja makes a good point-was this a stripper or something worse altogether?
I asked if he was remorseful OP only because to ME that would make a difference - I think! Not sure how much of a difference but it would.
Some of the nicest guys I know have such dickhead mates. I don't know why but they do.
I really don't know what I would do OP. perhaps get him to beg forgiveness, get rid of his best man and marry him. But only if this was a one off. If there had been similar behaviour before then I wouldn't.
Caja, might have a point, she could have been a prostitute, in which there are very few rules.
I have seen on TV that you can get strippers in hummers (on some awful programme on drinking in town centres) so it does happen but the extra £10 for a feel leans towards this being something else? Either way - classy eh?
Was DP drunk when he doesn't usually drink? There's some wiggle room to pity him if the situation is otherwise completely out of character. But if it's connected to other dubious behaviour that you've previously brushed off...
I agree with ALittleStranger and consider use of prostitutes on a par with racism and overt misogyny but appreciate that (possibly) most people wouldn't agree.
Don't let the pre-wedding hype sway your thinking on this. You've been working towards it, with planning and excitement for months, so it seems a massive deal to cancel/postpone. But it's only the one day. You're going to be married to this guy for a very long time (presumably). His morals and "character" are very important to your long-term happiness. Has he shown you who he really is on this occasion?
Only you can know. Trust your instinct.
In my experience a lot of women who call themselves strippers or lap dancers will offer extras.
givvusaclue Sure, yeah, right.
shame Completely agree with your post. Have been discussing this thread with DH. We both said that if OP's OH is normally a fine, upstanding person, then OP shouldn't let this one blip upset her so much. It is obvious that the best man only did this for a wind-up.
All this castigation of the OH. Nobody's perfect. Nobody at all. I don't know if it's down to the Oreal "because I'm worth it" culture, but imo many people don't work hard enough at their relationships. I know that OP is really upset. I'm sure, if her OH is as lovely as she's said he is, when he has recovered from last night, they will be able to discuss things in a civilised manner and move past this.
OP, please don't let this one thing stop you marrying your OH if everything else is right in the relationship.
giv has a point - mumsnet loves to shout LTB!
I've been married 18 years (as of yesterday). I understand about working at relationships.
However, I'm curious as to how the OP is the one who needs to be "working on" this relationship, when her fiancé's behaved appallingly, yet appears to think she's fussing and needs to get over it and move on. How's he working at it?
Ermmm, right of passage my arse! Sorry this would be a deal beaker for me, especially as he's told you to 'get over it coz it's happened' .... I couldn't attach myself to such a disrespectful man like that for life!
This is your life, you need to decide whether you can tolerate this kind of behaviour and accept that his 'best mate' is total wanker!
Beaker?... Obviously I ment breaker
OP, if he never drinks and was insanely drunk, I would caution against throwing away your whole relationship.
That being said, I despise stripping and everything to do with it so I would be nuclear about it at this point.
His best man is an utter twat. And DP needs to do a LOT of grovelling.
The only thing that would give me pause and make me rethink this wedding is his staying quiet while best man said he "licked her minge" <boak>
Apparently though the stripper did say they could touch her if they all paid £10
This is one of the saddest things I've ever read.
The best man is clearly an arsehole.
How I would view it is if a woman is drunk she is not able to give consent. What your DP's friends did was arrange for a woman to do this when your husband was not able to give consent.
This sort of stag do is still very much what many 28 year old men consider de riguer, unfortunately. There seems to be a degree of ritual humiliation involved too in stag night culture and lap dances can be as much about this as thinking they are actually a 'nice' fun thing. They are about embarrassing people rather than giving them a 'treat'.
I don't think you should LTB but I do think you should make him grovel for a while. Make him think you are re-evaluating everything and make him worry!
Did you not expect him to have had a lap dance though? That is the one occasion i do think my partner will have a lap dance. Not that i'd be happy about it but i don't think it would come as a shock if he told me.
At least he did tell you though. I know how you're feeling and it is shit but just be nice to yourself.
Have you asked him if he did "lick her minge" though? That prob would be a dealbreaker for me :/ sorry you are going through this.
The OP's DP got off on a lap dancer and yet the OP is the one who has been overly influenced by hair adverts and is not working at the relationship. How very odd.
Would DP be happy if at the hen you danced on men and had them 'lick your minge'?
Why would the best man say such a thing? He sounds like a nasty shit. Which begs the question, why is he the best man?
Yes I think Waffly has the stag do dynamic spot on. Which is why it's so objectionable, it's using a woman's naked body as a "kick me" sign.
Why would anyone 'expect' their partner to have a lap-dance?
And by the way, it's RITE of passage, not right.
As you were...
Don't let him near you until he's been checked for herpes etc - in case he did lick her. <shudders>
I agree with others who have said to get rid of the best man. It may be out of character for your husband but the BM sounds like an ass and there is no way I would want him at the wedding.
Euphemism - I just meant did she not have a feeling what might go on so at not to be so shocked by it.
I think when most people hear "stag do" they think booze, strippers, lap dances, more booze etc etc.
I don't like it, but it's true.
What clam said, totally.
Why is the onus on the op? Not only did he behave like a dick last night, he is continuing to behave like a dick this morning.
Sunk Cost fallacy aside, the only person throwing away their relationship with reckless abandon is her partner (who has also allowed his best man to tease and disrespect her), so the onus is not on her to think carefully about not 'throwing away' the relationship if everything else is perfect. Though up until now, telling her to 'get over it' makes me wonder how much effort he's willing to put in.
Things change, people change, everything changes. No matter how wonderful a relationship, the OP now has new information presented to her and she needs time and space to decide how she wants to proceed.
Gobblers - you've put it more succinctly
If stag-do means strippers, lap dancers, then I'd suggest the groom is too young or too stupid to get married.
The likelihood is that the guys chipped in together to embarrass the groom to be andvthis was followed up by drunken bravado piss taking which probably wasn't well received.
Do you really think that if anything sinister happened they would be joking about it so brazenly. If I was your partner I'd be questioning how you could hold me in such low esteem.
I'm so sorry this has happened to you OP. And am quite shocked that your DP and DM are saying that you "just get over it", that is so disrespecful of your feelings and sounds like they want to make it your fault (ie the problem is not that DP has had a lapdance which may or may not have included oral sex, but with you being a drama queen),that is so wrong. Your DP needs to aknowledge your feelings and make amends (if you decide to continue with the rekationship, only you can decide that as only you know what your deal breakers are). I suspect that there wasn't any oral sex that the "best man" is winding you up which is revolting. Why would your DP allow him to upset you like this? If anyone disrespected my partner in that way and implied i had been cheating, the friendship would cease and they would no longer be invited to my wedding, let alone stand next to me at the altar!
Why did he put himself in the situation where this could happen?
My dh didn't have a stag do for this reason, he and friends went off and drove fast cars. No way would he or his friends lower themselves to this, its disgusting.
there again a lot of men seem to like these sort of things and if you have a man like this he won't change it will just become more secretive over the years. They are right you either get over it which you will need to do if you are getting married, or call wedding off. Thats not insensitive but logical. I'm sure his friends aren't being malicious and if they are then he needs to chose his friends more wisely
It's the best man I would be furious with here. He sounds like a prize dick, and certainly not Godparent material.
The groom has just been really lame going along with his mates.
How the hell do you lap dance in a limo anyway?
Givvusaclue - firstly the op is 'insecure' then she is 'naive' now she is holding her partner in low esteem?
What a strange reading of events.
I'm shocked that someone actually thinks it's insecurity to not want ones DH looking at another women's vagina! Words fail me. I would certainly not expect the man I was about to marry to have a lapdance either, and nor did he.
That would be the relationship tainted for me I'm afraid, and the wedding ruined.
I hate this "stag do = strippers" mentality.
My dh and his mates went paintballing followed by
too much beer and football.
None of the men of my acquaintance did the stripper thing. Guess I'm just friends with non-sexist, mature guys. Lucky me.
The best man may be a dick, but the op's DP is not a puppet.resumably he had a choice somewhere in the chain of events.
What's the MN adage - when a man tells you what he is like, listen. I have mangled it a bit.
Forgot to mention me and dp have a 1 year old dd. he said he would be disgusted if she grew up and made money doing what that stripper was doing, so how can he think what he did was ok? His argument is that he had a lot to drink and she was in the limo and he was being egged on, but that doesn't make me feel any less disrespected and hurt by what he has done. He says he is sorry for hurting me, but he won't say that he thinks what he did was wrong, he is still adamant that I am wrong for reacting in the way I have. I just am so hurt and angry that he has ruined the run up to the wedding.
Btw, me not wanting dp to look at other women's vaginas does not make me insecure or naive.
I would see my dh in a completely different light if he did this. I don't think I could trust him again.
Those that accept this sort of thing as boys will be boys, or standard stag do behaviour are buying into a misongynistic system that places women firmly as playthings of the men.
I lose respect for anyone who goes to strip clubs or similar, whether their partners accept it or not.
His argument is that he had a lot to drink and she was in the limo and he was being egged on So he's a sheep who does what everyone else tells him too?
I would suggest that your DP sacks his best man as it was him who organised the stripper and so he is showing you no respect. But you DP also needs to apologise. He can't just say "what's done is done, move on". Either he understands it has upset you or he thinks your feelings don't count as much as him having some fun.
givvus - the woman in a bikini on the beach hasn't been paid to be there for the titillation of men.
The woman in a bikini at the beach is also not naked, nor is she sitting on dps lap!
"My dp was honest because I can trust him."
to be fair, givvusaclue, if youre' the poster I remember, given your previous thread about your relationship, you are in an EA situation where you said you feel trapped and there has been a lot of nasty stuff. I'm surprised you can trust him with anything.
Apologies if you weren't the person who posted that, but your name does sound familiar.
For no reason I can fathom men - quite wrongly - turn into 12 year olds when they're on a stag, some believe the word 'stag' is a bye word for do what ever you want and sod the consequences and they're allowed to behave how they want. It sounds like your DP as dragged into something he should have but didn't say no to, it also sounds like the best man is thoroughly enjoying winding you up. I would say the best man is an arse who needs a talking to, your DP is a tit for getting caught up in it and although only you can decide the future of your relationship you can console yourself with the fact that he will never have another stag do so shouldn't be in this position again and can carry on being the lovely person you know him to be.
"he is still adamant that I am wrong for reacting in the way I have"
yes OP, and that's the problem. It's not so much about naked women, or minge licking, it's the fact that he is minimising and telling you your feelings aren't valid.
If a man does that now, before marriage, I can promise you he'll still be doing it 20 years down the line too. He needs to learn to listen to you and acknowledge your feelings. He doesn't have to agree with you.
After many apologies and much grovelling, assurances and promises I should have added!!
I had this too. I have no issue with strippers, I have a couple of friends who are strippers, escorts, porn actresses etc so I know how it all works.
I didn't want DH to have a stripper, not because I don't trust him, but because I'm so insecure about my body the idea that he might think "cor I wish crumpets looked like that" is absolutely devastating for me
When DH had his stopper it was his choice, he went for a private dance. He told me, he told me he hated it (not just saying it, I knew from his face) he was so sorry he'd hurt me. He was curious.
I slept in the spare room for a week as I didn't want him to see me and all my fat and stretch marks. I was really hurt that he did it. He was really upset he did it, and felt even worse when he knew how hurt I was.
His friend and best man kept going on and on about it, he regularly has lap dances so wasn't an issue for him. And it was hard for me to keep quiet and laugh it off.
We dealt with it. I just had to suck it up. It was my insecurity that was the issue. If I'd been happy with my body I knew it wouldn't be such an issue for me. It was unfair to keep punishing DH for 1 mistake (which he was genuinely sorry for) and my body issues. Plus she kept putting her hair in his face, which I know makes DH feel sick, it's like nails on a chalkboard for him (I admit I took great pleasure in that fact!) so I knew he genuinely didn't enjoy it.
It took a while but we got there. I would tease him about if for ages. If he walked past me in just his boxers I'd grab a tenner or twenty from the cash pot and slip it into his boxers and tell him "dance for me bitch"
Made me feel better, and made him a little uncomfortable which was mean of me, but satisfying too!! I also threw away the trouses he wore during the dance.
3 years on its not even an issue.
So I'm giving you a hug and I'm going to say it will be fine. It was a one off, drunken mistake. It doesn't even seem like it was his choice. It's good he's been honest with you, just make it clear that you're upset and why you are upset.
Just one more thought, is it possible he is trying to brush it under the carpet and asking you to get over it because he is embarrassed and doesn't know (or want) to handle the situation? Hope I'm making some sense
Is he hungover? Maybe you need a bit of space and come back to this in a few hours? Decide what you need for you to be comfortable getting married in a week then discuss this with your DP.
Crumpets your DH was remorseful and acknowledged your upset, the OP's idiot is blaming her for her upset. I think that's a massive difference.
Personally, if my DH behaved as yours did, I'd get past it. If he behaved as the OP's did, maybe not. It's the lack of respect and the minimising and deflecting of blame, it's not about the lap dance. imo.
Crumpets while I understand that for you it was all about your own security that you didn't like it, your DH behaved appropriately in helping you to deal with it.
But for many of us our objections to this have nothing to do with insecurity and it really does bug me when people infer it's always about jealousy or insecurity. There are other issues here too that bother me. Insecurity has nothing to do with it.
"My dp went on a stag do where the groom had multiple lap dances. He told his missus they went go karting and had a few quiet beers after.
My dp was honest because I can trust him".
Trust him to what? Behave like a creep? Hang out with men who lie to their wives? You are so lucky.
It's ok to expect more from your partner, OP. Not all men go around in drunken gangs, ogling other women's genitals, and (ewww) watching their mates do the same.
None of the men of my acquaintance did the stripper thing. Guess I'm just friends with non-sexist, mature guys. Lucky me.
I agree with this.
Also this isn't really a thread about stripping. It's a thread about someone whose DP disrespects and minimises her point of view and tells her she is wrong to feel upset about something and doesn't defend her to his friends.
sapfu that's why I said op needs to explain why she is upset rather than just saying she is upset. To make him understand where she is coming from and hopefully realise he is in the wrong. If afterward he still maintains he's done nothing wrong then I completely agree he's an arse!
CVS not sure where I said that all women were insecure and jealous of strippers? I though OP had said she felt insecure and that was my feeling also. Which is why I mentioned it. I appreciate some women don't like the idea for a multitude of reasons, I have none of those reasons. Only my insecurity so I'm not qualified to speak on behalf of other women and their reasons.
My friend's DH's stag night involved strippers (with his dad getting in there with the first private dance- gross!)
My friend said it was ok as she 'trusted him'- I trust my husband but strippers are still a definite no no for me, and him.
I HATE this idea that stripping is an acceptable right of passage- it isn't. It's disrespectful and quite frankly a crock of shit.
OP, I hope you're doing ok. You really need to have time to think about this (hard, I know with the wedding a week away). Your DP needs to respect how you are feeling and find a way through this, if that's what YOU decide.
Crumpets I didnt say that you said all women are insecure. Other people do though, and have done on this thread.
I wrote my post badly - my first paragraph was to you, the second was general musing and should probably have been on a separate post. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
"Also this isn't really a thread about stripping. It's a thread about someone whose DP disrespects and minimises her point of view and tells her she is wrong to feel upset about something and doesn't defend her to his friends."
Exactly this. For me the worst thing about this whole thing is that he stood there and let his best man say things to OP that he knew were going to upset her. Trusting our life partner isn't just about whether or not he touched or didn't touch this stripper. Trust is knowing that your partner is there for you - 'got your back' as the saying goes. OP's partner put his mate ahead of her, yet again, when he didn't tell him to STFU about the minge licking.
OP if this were me, I wouldn't want to rush in to a wedding next weekend. I'd be buying some time to have a think about whether I'd want to tie myself to this man. I'd tell people the wedding was postponed due to a problem with the venue or something.
I know cancelling feels like a big thing, but this revelation and his reaction is a big thing too.
And I don't agree with all of this getting your own back or slipping him a tenner and telling him, "dance for me bitch". That's not the kind or relationship I accept.
Any man can say 'no thanks' to a lap dance. Any man who knows his own mind and doesn't objectify women, that is.
The best man sounds like a twunt of the highest order.
I'm sorry you are having to deal with this OP and I don't think you should be expected to 'just get over it'. To all intents and purposes it is cheating.
Not 'loving this' at all. Just know men who feel it is not their god given right to exploit women on their stag dos. Shocking, eh?
worrybynature, I guess at the moment your DH is horribly hungover and possibly also a bit drunk. In your shoes I would stop talking to him about this and would leave him to stew. I would tell him that there would be no further discussion until he was fully sobered up.
Also if his friends are still hanging around I would kick them out in no uncertain terms.
Perhaps it would help you to right down how you feel? Give it to him to read. This way you can get all your feelings over to him without him having time to make up excuses.
If he doesnt normally behave this way then he is probably defending his actions out of shame at his behaviour.
Behaviour such as this must have consequences, assuming that all the people on the stag do are invited to the wedding then I would be uninviting them. The message to be delivered over the phone by DP with worrybynature in the room.
If DP finds this embarrassing then that is good, he should.
It hard because whilst I don't like the idea of lap dancers or strippers, I do think it is part of our culture and is often included in the 'rite of passage' that is a hen or stag night. I don't think that it is in any way the same as cheating and given that it was organised by his friends, not him, and it was the stag, I would just let it go. It's a shame that his mates felt they needed to fill you in. That said, if the minge comment was true (sure it wasn't), then I would feel differently. Just see it as the one off, silly stag party that it was.
sorry, brain in neutral:
Perhaps it would help you to write down how you feel?
I'm not so sure about banning the best man. If they get married then the groom has a right to have his friends and family there. I think there's far more discussion to be had between the couple, and stomping your feet about the best man is just a bit of a red herring.
I would flounce off.
Go and stay at a mates. Leave him with his hangover and stupid friends today.
Have a think about what you want to happen next.
givvus you're coming across as a man pleaser. One of those sorry women who forces herself to be ok with stuff like this because she's terrified of not being loved.
I'm probably wrong, but I don't think so.
My dp is honest too. And he honestly didn't go to a strip club. I don't think it's that unusual and I think it's sad really, that you think if a man doesn't pay a woman to strip then he's lying.
I dont agree Vivacia, surely the people you want at your wedding are the people who will support you as a couple not a bunch of misogynists. A wedding isnt simply an excuse for a party that you invite any old bod to.
"I do think it is part of our culture and is often included in the 'rite of passage' that is a hen or stag night."
Maybe in your world, but not in mine.
"I do think it is part of our culture and is often included in the 'rite of passage' that is a hen or stag night."
I'm sorry but that's just misogynistic bullshit.
Otherwise I will do the same and tell you that you are an insecure fool who believes everything her husband tells her while he laughs at her
Please do. It rather proves my point: that's your opinion of what men really do. And that's just sad. Because women who surround themselves with decent, respectful men know differently.
How can leering at another woman's vagina seen as a 'rite of passage' for someone about to get married?
That's just bullshit, sorry.
"Otherwise I will do the same and tell you that you are an insecure fool who believes everything her husband tells her while he laughs at her."
I think you might be projecting a bit there, givvusaclue. You need to realise that there are decent men out there, and some of us are lucky enough to be married to them.
*be seen
Worry I agree, but it's a conclusion for the couple to come to. I'd be concerned there'd be (even more) resentment.
My dh told me after his stag do that he hadn't gone to the lapdancing bar. 9 years down the line he admitted he had, and that certain people who gate crashed had manhandled him there and then held him down for a lapdance. I believe this as I've seen the fuckers in action before. He apologised and it took 2 years for me to feel love and trust for him.
What I didn't like was that our daughter's godfather said he hadn't wanted to go but when he realised that dh's brother who was his best man had done a bunk, he felt he had to look after dh and had a bit of a battle with the fuckers to get dh out of there. He told me that he knew if his gf had got wind of it she'd have hit the roof if he hadn't tried to stop it. So he did. But dh's brother ran away instead of helping his brother. Nice brother like!
I still get moments of anger but more directed at the group who did this. Dh had said no to going and they should have listened.
You have to make a decision quickly if you will move on or if you are going to cancel everything. At least he has been honest but he sounds like he needs decent friends.
Look to me the point here isn't that there was a stripper or not. We could argue the rights and wrongs of that forever (and probably will).
Ignoring what the "thing that happened" actually was, the op told her DH that she had a boundary and that it mattered to her. He then totally ignored this and crossed that boundary, and his dickhead mates to add insult to injury think its fine to go on about it and make a fool of her for being upset.
It shows a lack of respect for the op and a lack of regard for her feelings and opinions.
I would not want to spend the rest of my life, or legally tie myself, to someone who ignored my feelings regardless of what the "thing that happened" was.
And I would not want to spend the rest of my life with someone who chose best friends who were as downright horrible and mean as these two have been.
The actual stripper is a red herring and the thread is getting bogged down in arguments about naked women which while important discussions are really irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Op, postpone the wedding. You need to see if you can resolve this, at the very best your wedding day will be ruined if you go ahead next week because you will still be upset about this.
you are completely right. My dh has never had a lap dancer, stripper, escort etc and he isn't interested.
I think men that use stag parties for an excuse to do this are twats tbh, and women who try and stop men who want to do this are naive and kidding themselves.
If you don't mind your man doing this then fine. If you do mind, find a man who doesn't like it, there are some about.
Sorry I got a sentence totally wrong.
It should read "arguments about naked women which while very important in the grand scheme of things are really irrelevant to this thread"
Nobody is without faults, givvus, be they man or woman.
But, honestly, there are men out there who do consider lap dances/objectification etc as wrong/not their scene/disrespectful.
* Are you saying you dh has never done anything wrong?*
How odd. Define wrong. He's messed up. We've had arguments. He's been an arsehole about his family (for example).
But he's never thought so little of women that he's paid one to take her clothes off for his titilation.
If your dh has so little respect for you that he does do these things and then lies to you about it, you need to look at your relationship and not project so much.
Oh and givvus, I'm delighted that in four days your fa and ea relationship has managed to transform itself. That's incredible work from you.
Givvusaclue You don't know me, so please don't judge me or my dh according to your own low standards.
I am not naïve and I can guarantee you that my dh has never been to a stripclub or lap-dancing club. I've just asked him, actually (just for your benefit) and he laughed, pulled a face and said he couldn't think of anything worse.
he said he would be disgusted if she grew up and made money doing what that stripper was doing, so how can he think what he did was ok?
Huh. So there are 'good girls' like your daughter, and he would be furious if she grew up to be like one of 'those' women. But her existence provided them with some entertainment for the evening. How naice.
he is still adamant that I am wrong for reacting in the way I have.
Well, God forbid you have your own ladybrain that thinks and responds in a different way than he would like.
Problem is now, that it's not only his stag do - it'll be other times in future where his mates will have their stag dos, and I doubt you'll be buying his tales of, "It'll just be go-karting followed by a few pints and a curry."
A lap dance is more than just a 'show' considering it generally revolves around a naked woman gyrating on a man's crotch/over his face.
There may/may not be touching depending on various factors too.
A 'show' implies distance without actual contact.
Who's lying? And are you really suggesting that we must have sexual hangups because we find lap-dancing seedy, sad, misogynistic and unpleasant?
I agree, RhondaJean.
Crumpets - re:worrybynature explaining to her idiot how she feels: he does know how she feels, she says so in her OP "He knows how I feel about strippers, and that I don't agree with it." As I understood that, he would know why she would be upset if he had a lapdance.
And as RhondaJean says, he knew how she felt but he went along with the strippers anyway - it's about lack of respect and regard for her feelings. Her feelings that I think (apologies if I've read it wrongly) he knew all about.
Just asked DH whether any stag do he has been on involved strippers.
One best man had booked the stripper but when the Stag found out he insisted the booking was cancelled. Which it was.
On another Stag, there were strippers in the bar but no one was that interested. BTW these were all builder types and by no stretch of the imagination chin stroking New Men.
He said that he found it difficult to believe anyone would be interested in strippers unless they (the stags) were very very young or had very little experience with naked women. I mean, "licked her minge" hardly sounds like a phrase used by a considerate or experienced lover.
Sure, people are different and have different ideas. Sounds as if you've accepted that the men in your life would behave in this way. The OP clearly has a problem with her OH "licking the minge" of a lap-dance in the back of a car, when she's made it very clear that that's a deal-breaker for her. And that's the issue here.
Also crumpets, I agree with you completely that he needs to understand where worrybynature is coming from. I think his criticising her reaction is putting a block on this - he doesn't seem to accept her feelings on the matter.
"Why are emasculating men so much that they are having to lie about something that whilst seedy isnt the end of the world? Are we projecting our own sexual hang ups and are insecure about the blatant exhibitionism."
The men I know who don't have to pay for sex or female attention, who are confident enough to see women as people and not objects, who are proud to describe themselves as feminists, are not emasculated.
How horrible
whilst I don't like the idea of lap dancers or strippers, I do think it is part of our culture and is often included in the 'rite of passage' that is a hen or stag night
"part of our culture"? Not mine. Nor that of my sons/daughter - we've talked about it. And you're dignifying something pretty pathetic/seedy when you use expressions such as "rite of passage".
We're talking about people getting drunk and looking at women's (usually) genitalia together. Not hunting the wild boar alone, armed with a mere stick, or submitting to ritual circumcision without anaesthesia. I'm not commending either of those, by the way.
If you "don't like" the idea of lap dancers etc, don't accept it. Why don't we expect our partners to be our equals, instead of rather silly little boys to be indulged? I grew up in the 50s and thought we'd left all that appeasing little woman stuff behind. How depressing.
The best man obviously dislikes you because you are the competition, the woman who is taking away his best friend. He has taken great pleasure in relaying, or exaggerating, this episode to cause you maximum upset. When I was in my twenties I had a boyfriend with a friend like this and I would not have wanted someone like this at my wedding at all, and particularly not playing such a prominent role.
Whether or not women are right to be upset by their partners having a lap dance is not relevant to this discussion. The OP made clear to her fiancé in advance that this was not acceptable within the parameters of their relationship, but he went ahead and did it anyway and now says that she has to "get over it". How many more things will she have to tolerate because he feels like doing it and, well, it's done now so she will just have to deal with it? If he wants to engage in something that he knows is abhorrent to his fiancée, he should never have embarked on the path to marriage. He should stay single or find a woman who is happy for him to "lick the minge" of other women - there are clearly some out there, judging by some of the responses on this thread.
I still feel awful, but thanks for asking. I have cried so much today, my head is killing. I think dp finally understands how upset I am. I have always disagreed with the idea of strippers, but since I've had our daughter my body is disgusting, and I now feel like I don't want dp to see ME naked anymore. I accept that a lot of my reaction is down to my insecurities. Dp says he wouldn't have done it if he knew this would hurt me so much, but he also says he was curious, as hasn't had a stripper before. It makes me feel ill that he was curious to see her vagina. I can't stop thinking about it
Best man gone, I told him to leave this morning
Oh goodness worry , where to start?
Firstly, I'm sure your body isn't disgusting. It's just not an air-brushed, pre-baby, late-teen body any more. How you feel about your body does not give your partner a reason to disrespect your wishes. If it helps, I am confident in my own skin and would still be feeling as disappointed and repulsed as you do with mental images of my partner using another woman for pleasure.
And I'm glad you got the others from under your roof.
Hi OP. Just thought i would add something to this. My dh had never had a stripper before he went on his stag weekend and to be honest we had never discussed it so he didnt really know my opinion on them. I always thought it was a bit skanky but kind of harmless. Until he rang and told me his mates had got him one. Of course he said he tried not to look and didnt enjoy it. How upset I felt took me by surprise. He had never made me feel so ugly, low and embarrassed. Like you, I dont like my body and afterwards kept thinking if he compares me to the stripper, i must look terrible. BUT, we talked through it once he was home and had been sober for 24 hours. His pov was that as he didnt arrange it, pay for it or touch her he didnt think he had done anything terrible, and thought i wouldnt mind. However, he understood why i was upset and wanted to make me feel better. And it is for that reason that the wedding went ahead.
Unfortunately, on a 'boys night out,' men go along with whats happening, and the best man arranged this without your dps knowledge. The important thing now is how understanding he is towards you. He should be upset that you're upset and he should be trying to establish what you need so he can give it to you.
I hope he comes through for you OP xx
"Unfortunately, on a 'boys night out,' men go along with whats happening"
Some men go along.
Dp says he wouldn't have done it if he knew this would hurt me so much, but he also says he was curious, as hasn't had a stripper before
Sheesh, the poor diddums. You'd think it was some fancy cocktail he'd not previously encountered - not an actual human being displaying her genitals for a few quid.
OP, please give yourself time - on your own - to think about what's happened. Your DP is not allowing you headspace.
Lots of women are confident about their bodies - but they're also confident about what they expect of a partner. Please don't embark on marriage feeling so insecure or you'll end up accepting anything.
Please believe that you deserve to be treated with love and respect, always.
It does sound like he doesnt yet get how stupid he has been. I am guessing that there is still some self-justification going on.
Your reaction has held up a deeply unflattering mirror to your DP and I think he is struggling with this image of himself.
You dont have to 'get over it' for the sake of the wedding. If the time isnt now right you can delay the wedding. It doesnt have to end the relationship at all. A friend of mine delayed his wedding because the time wasnt right - he will be celebrating his silver wedding anniversary soon.
I feel so sorry for you.
He has been massively disrespectful and you are entitled to react the way you have. Only you know if you can move forward with him now.
I agree with crazyspaniel's post and IMO if he stays friends with his BM after this I suspect there will be more incidents in the future.
I wish you courage in whatever you decide to do.
But he did know it would hurt you. You told him it was a no-no for you. Sounds to me like he's scrabbling around to say whatever he thinks you want to hear.
"Hasn't had a stripper before?" What sort of circles does he move in, that he thinks it's on some sort of bucket-list of desirable things a man has to do? This is a real-life woman, he's been ogling (or worse)> Someone's dd, dsis, possibly dmum. Is he normally mispgynistic?
worrybynature, I'm just wondering did the best man know how you feel about strippers? Did you lay down what was/wasn't acceptable with him before the stag do?
The best man has definitely gone out of his way to upset you, and I bet he's doing a good job of convincing your DP that he's right, and you are being hysterical.
Yes the best man knew, we had a heated conversation over a year ago where I said it was a deal breaker
Is the best man married himself?
worrybynature I would be beyond livid in view of your 'heated conversation' with the BM
If (and for me it would be a BIG IF!) I could forgive this it would most definitely be an 'either him or me' choice for my DP! Actually, I could not forgive and I would never trust him again.
Have you suggested to your OH that he find another best man? If so, what was his response?
You see, in my opinion, the bestman has to be a friend of the marriage, not just the groom. And if he really has gone out of his way to provide something that he knew full well was going to upset you and rock your relationship, then he has no business standing up at your wedding supporting either of you.
I can't help but see the irony of using the term BM here. I understand what it means in this context, but on some health forums I visit it means something entirely different. Although rather similar in this case.
OP I've read all of your thread now. I feel terribly sorry for you too. This last week before your wedding should be one of excitement and joy for both of you. And now it's tarnished.
Is the best man actually jealous, like dont wanna lose his mate or some other weird bullshit like that, sees Worry as a threat.
I know many would say the best man has a right to be there but it's your wedding too. If he's done something really nasty then he deserves to not go to the wedding. He was being deliberately hurtful, childish and immoral he sounds like a complete asswipe.
My friend phoned me up at 12am about 7 years ago when he was on his stag do. His wife had my number and he asked if she phoned up and asked he did not go to a stripper, which he did. I felt very uncomfortable with him expecting me to lie. So when she phoned I didn't answer and when he spoke to me the next time when not drunk I said for him to be honest to her, or we just simply wouldn't talk so he ended up being honest. It was terrible for him to put me in that situation.
I think my problem with this is that if you want to see other woman's lady bits then you should be single. Isn't the point of getting married wanting to just be with one person for the rest of your life? If you don't want that then have friends with benefits or be a free agent, it's not rocket science is it?
My DP's Dad tried to get him a stripper at his 18th but he was pretty disgusted by it, to be honest. I wasn't dating him at the time and he was still a virgin but still classed that as not nice so it doesn't always mean you have to be older and experienced to respect women in this way, you just have to be decent.
I know it would be my insecurity that would bother me the most about him doing that, as well as of course him wanting to see someone else as obviously that doesn't mean he wants to be with just me or at least not want to just see just me in that way. But at the end of the day though I would be upset that his best man was such a callous and inconsiderate twat. I wouldn't be too happy with having someone like that as a best man. I'd respect if my maid of honour did something distasteful too, so I wouldn't make one rule for me and one for him. I know he wouldn't do this though as he respects me, respects women, doesn't see what the big deal is and knows that although I am happy within myself in general, I still wouldn't feel comfortable with it.
I can't see why you'd want to use someone like that anyway. It is using someone for your satisfaction and not in the way you use a service like a sauna or even a human related service like a sports massage. This is invading someone else's privacy.
I can understand that you are really upset OP. My advice for what it is worth is to see how he behaves in regards to this in the next few days. If he seems remorseful and admits he did mess up, then I'd consider forgiving him but of course, not forgetting.
However if he says you are overreacting explain to him in your own words why you really aren't, so he can see it from his point of view. If he is still being callous and/or wont budge on the best man then I'd put the wedding back. Not cancel it, because I'm sure you can work through it, but at the moment it wouldn't be a happy time to get married and you want to get married at a time you are both going to be happy.
I hope things improve for you and he admits he was disrespectful and a bit of an idiot.
I hope you do have a lovely wedding. I am sure he is a lovely man and if he hasn't done anything like this before it seems nonsensical to break up with him for just this reason but at the end of the day you know what you are and are not willing to tolerate.
Oh and out of curiosity were you his first/only proper relationship? This is a possibility why he is so curious as he's only ever seen you intimately. Not that it makes it right of course, but it's a possibility.
Your update is very worrying OP.
He knew you'd be hurt/upset and did it anyway.
I'm getting married next Saturday. My dp would no more have spent his stag do with a stripper than he would have spent it beating up bouncers or shouting racial abuse at strangers. Why? Because he is a decent person who respects people. Not all men are misogynists.
Posted too soon - I'd be postponing the wedding. I wouldn't marry someone who had that kind of attitude a) to women and b) to me and my values
"Unfortunately, on a 'boys night out,' men go along with whats happening
Oh please. What utter clap-trap. So, men are incapable of saying 'no' then, are they? How patronising to men!
It's a shame the men who enjoy watching strippers can't get together with the women who don't mind if men watch strippers. They're such a perfect match. Can't you wear badges or something? It could say something like, "Lapdancers r us" and the rest of us would know who to avoid. I'm all for efficiency in these matters.
This thread is interesting from a man's point of view.
When I've been to stag nights where strippers are involved I have politely refused to participate because I know my wife wouldn't want me to. Having said that, it was very hard to refuse at the time, the peer pressure was immense, not that this is any excuse.
BM sounds like a cock, and whilst you shouldn't blackmail him with a 'him or me' ultimatum, you should have a very frank chat with your fiancé
Oh, and I assume you've never been to a hen night that involved strippers/nude butlers etc, because that would make you a hypocrite?
You are right ahusband although I would not consider my ultimatum blackmail. I just know that I would be waiting for the next occasion where the BM would cause more trouble, having done it once and very successfully. That is why I concluded that I doubt I could forgive this and at the very least I would be postponing the wedding.
And as for your question, I have never been to any occasion that involved strippers, male or female, or any kind of nudity, out of choice.
No I haven't.
I think to stand in someone's house and say your fiance licked a stripper's minge is so unbelievably dreadful that he deserves to be ostracised for ever. That is so rude, so crude and just so disrespectful. It is 100% clear to me that the best man be sent to social Siberia. But then he is a non event in the scheme of things.
OP, what do you want to do? Cancel, delay or go ahead. Those are your options. None of them is easy, so do the one you want.
DO you actually get on with the best man because if he knew that strippers were a deal breaker was he trying to sabotage the wedding. He sounds vile and you should certainly demand yes demand that he is no longer the best man if the wedding does go ahead.
I wonder if your Dp will have the balls to do that since he didn't grow a pair and refuse to participate with the stripper?
I would go ahead but insist that the best man was persona non gratis.
Stag/Hen do's are nothing but expense and cause no end of hassle IMHO
Oh, and I assume you've never been to a hen night that involved strippers/nude butlers etc, because that would make you a hypocrite?
Or, you know, actually it wouldn't.
I agree with nkf. What an utterly vile and vulgar person he is.
The gory details are vile. Still I expect it goes on and people are never any the wiser. But the OP has been told about it so she is dwelling on it. Don't know what to say. But IMHO this goes on these days.
Actions speak louder than words.
If he really is genuinely remorseful then he would need to show this in his actions - e.g pulling up his friends for making vile goading remarks this morning, banning best man from wedding (after all he can't be a true friend knowing the stripper would upset you and cause problems), establishing boundaries etc.
To help make him think hard about his actions and to show how much this hurt you, tell him to go away for a few days to allow you space to consider if you still want to marry a weak immature easily led man.
I am quite a bit older than you OP. My ex-h went to strip clubs when on his stag do and despite me feeling exactly like you do right now, I took the "don't make a fuss" approach and the Sunk Fallacy approach - we too had a little baby.
I regret it massively. I wish I had trusted myself. I wish I had had the self respect to ditch him at this massive red flag being waved in my face.
I would ask a few questions to try and see what type of man he is in general, especially with regards to a woman's role in life/marriage:
Does he do his fair share of baby care? (and i mean fair)
Does he think he has a right to go out whenever he pleases and come back whenever he pleases and you 'hold the fort'?
Does he expect sex on tap and get in any way annoyed / upset / grumpy if you are not 'fulfilling his needs'?
Does he ever become grumpy / sabotage any efforts you may make to go out / try something new?
There are many more questions I could ask, but if I was a 28 year old me, I would have wished someone would have joined the dots and seen that the stripper was just one incident of him being a totally selfish arsewipe.
The thing I don't get about stag or even hen do-s is why before the wedding? Really the last night as a single person was the night before a couple decided to be exclusive.
My DH knew my feelings on strip clubs, he gave his friends v strict instructions. Though sadly other men forget it's not about them, they seem to relish using their friend's stag do as an excuse to get their rocks off, no thought to the consequences for the groom's relationship etc
So sorry OP, this should be a happy week full of excitement
On my DHs stag be was railroaded by his best man and others to go to a strip club. I didn't think it would bother me but it did- even though he didn't actually have a dance himself and said he found it really uncomfortable and awful.
I ended up telling him I didn't like the idea much and we had a nice discussion about it. He said he was sorry it had upset me and he would never do it again- even if it meant making a point and walking away from a group. I felt a lot better after our conversation so talking to your partner is important.
Oh and it would be a deal breaker for me as I don't want to live with a man who thinks its ok to buy women's bodies.
Also while you are thinking things through I would carefully consider all of the things listed above - does he do half of the work when at home? is child free leisure time equally divided between you two?
DH and his mates did stuff like paint balling, water sports, hiking and camping for their stag dos.
Talking to her partner would be nice, but earlier on he was of the opinion she should just 'get over it.'
From a man's perspective this stripper/lap dance situation is so 1980's now, I have been to lap dancing clubs all over the world and they don 't do anything for me, probably based on the fact that I want a woman to fancy me for me not because I'm paying for a service (as in customer service not a car service lol). Recently a group of 8 of us went on one of my son's stag night, ages ranged from early twenties to me as the old Git of 60. We went paintballing, had a nice meal at a great restaurant, visited a few bars and then went to the casino. Quite a few drinks were had but no one got blotto nor flirted openly with any females (although two young ladies at the casino did ask if they could have their pics taken with me as they thought I looked like someone off Masterchef) either those with or without partners. We had a great day and not a stripper etc in sight. Conversely my wife went on the hen do and it was v raucous , sex toy pressies, straws in the drinks that were plastic cocks etc.
OP - beware the 'I was just curious' explanation your dp has given you.
If it was something drunken, that he could barely remember, a one-off, and he'd been sorry I may have forgiven him. But the 'just curious' thing worries me - it tells you that he made a decision about the lap dance. He knew your feelings on it, weighed it up, and went ahead anayway. He is not remorseful.
Men who are 'just curious' about strippers on their stag nights may very well turn into men who are 'just curious' about googling escort agencies when they have been married a couple of years, or their wives are pregnant, or whatever.
What you have to ask yourself is: are you happy to marry a man who is happy to pay women for sexual services because they are just curious. I can tell you now that not all men would want to, be happy to, or even be curious enough to pay women for sexual services. It is very demonstrative of their feelings towards women. The way he is dismissing your feelings and opinions on this subject now are also very demonstrative of how he will treat you in marriage.
And I totally agree nkf about the best man - horrible thing to say/do to a bride to be.
Think carefully.
The best man is from being the best. You dp should have reacted to the minge comment, how disrespectful
I hate hen dos involving male strippers.
golferman - my dh says the same as you. He can't bear the thought of a woman giving him a sexual service purely because she's paid to. I don't this is that uncommon amongst men.
My dh is by no means perfect (although he's perfect to me ) - but I know for a fact that he would never watch a stripper, pay for a lapdance or see a prostitute - because he gets off on an interaction between 2 adults, a mutual attraction. Not a woman wiggling for him for a tenner.
You put it so more succinctly than me Running, exactly.
I wouldn't be able to get past this, tbh.
I wouldn't want to ever see the 'best man' ever again.
And I wouldn't be able to forget that this was my husbands way of celebrating the fact he loved me enough to marry me.
There's no point having a bottom line if you are going to ignore it when someone crosses it.
There must be one of these a week about strippers and stag do's, and despite the week after week evidence that there are going to be strippers at stag do's everyone is shocked and horrified anew.
worrybynatureSun 04-Aug-13 11:02:29
Even my mum is of the attitude that this is just a right of passage for the stag and I need to get over it
Whenever i hear this crap from older women it smacks of.
a. Back in my day i had to put up with it so why cant you.
b. I want some grandchildren.
Believe me yr mum has her own agenda Has she come out with the classic "if you cancel now it will look bad" or are you still waiting for that gem.
Us 'older women' had better just shut up and fade away then, is that what you believe Darkesteyes?
OP's mum is entitled to an opinion, just like everyone else, even if it's an opinion that you don't agree with.
However NotConnie, the OP's mother's comments are a little, erm, brush under the carpet or to put it technically, completely subjugating of OP's feelings.
worrybynatureSun 04-Aug-13 12:51:01
Forgot to mention me and dp have a 1 year old dd. he said he would be disgusted if she grew up and made money doing what that stripper was doing, so how can he think what he did was ok?
Be careful OP He sounds like a hypocritical mysogynist with a Madonna/whore complex.
I don't think the 'older women' comment applies to all older women.
Thanks, golferman. I love men like you posting on these threads - and I'd have hated the hen night your wife had to go to! I've never seen a male stripper in my life - long may it remain that way.
My dh and I never even had stag/hen do's (and we're not boring fuddy-duddies either- we'll party with the best of them.) I agree with a pp who said they can lead to nothing but trouble. My best friend's husband to be slept with a prostitute on his stag weekend in Amsterdam - the fall out was awful.
WHy stag do's have to involve a strip club is completely beyond me - the man is already committed - supposedly- to the woman he loves. I much prefer the idea of paintballing and a meal.
mooncup, I don't agree with OP's mum at all ! I just don't like the 'older women' line in that post.
sapfu I do hope not.
If this was my daughter, I certainly wouldn't be thinking that she should go ahead and marry him because it's 'time for grandchildren' or because I had to put it up with when I was younger.
This type of thing,ok not lapdances in hummers, but strippers in pubs after hours or on Sunday mornings and what the men got up to then was horrible, has been going on for years. I didn't like it then and I voiced my opinions about it.
It's funny around MN. We don't tolerate racism or sexism but I do see a heck of a lot of posts that are ageist, or minimising the opinion of those of us who are older.
I agree re the 'older women' comments, they are uncalled for. We are all as individual when we get older as we were as youngsters you know!
My DH had a lap dance at a strip club a few years ago (I views are like yours) he said that his work mates paid or it and his bravado couldn't stand there and say no sorry my GF wouldn't approve blah blah blah. This didn't come out until an argument (truth telling session) a few months later. I got over it when he told be that he just felt embarrassed all the way through the dance and didn't know where to look etc. I'm guessing it would be the same on a stag do. If his mates had organised it he's unlikely to say no (men huh??) to save face in front of his mates. I wouldn't be happy/comfortable if my DH had done this on his stag but trust me... You do get over it. If someone plucked a random bloke out and got him to gyrate on you would you like it?? Probably not so chances are it was the same for him. Good luck for your wedding and please don't let this ruin it for you.
I would be furious, upset and debating whether to call the wedding off.
However it is only one episode and he didn't organise the stag do or the stripper did he? As for what went on. Well what does your fiancé say?
If I were you I would tell him that one this one occasion you will accept it has happened but that you won't forget it and this is a deal breaker. Next time anything like this happens he can walk.
As for his twatty mates I would be very tempted to make sure that their girlfriends/wives/mothers heard about what they organised and how they decided to speak to you. They clearly have a lack of respect for women and so the women in their lives should know this. His mates would also never be welcome in the house again and they would be the rules your fiancé can either accept or walk away from.
I said WHENVER i hear this from older women.... cant really phrase it any other way really as a woman in their 20s/30s is incredibly unlikely to have a daughter old enough to get married let alone a potential son in law old enough to visit strip clubs.
Im 40 btw. I didnt mean all older women. Its what the word WHENEVER means when used in this context.
"(men huh??)"
What do you mean by this MissTweed?
Men are actual conscious human beings able to make choices you know?
Do you shrug off other forms of bad behaviour just coz they is menz?
NotConnie YOU might not pressure your daughter but the OPs mum is. Thats what i was referring too.
Anyone remember the thread by stuffitunderthebed? Her parents were doing the same in a very similar situation. It DOES happen
I didnt say it didn't happen !
Its just that as an older woman I didn't like how it seemed that you were generalising about all women over the age of 45, or whatever you consider to be 'older'.
Let's leave it there please, we're just taking the thread off topic and away from OP's problem.
"Add message | Report | Message poster ALittleStranger Sun 04-Aug-13 10:55:40
Personally I wouldn't class this as cheating. I hate stripping and lap dances as I think they're degrading and misgynistic, but it's not cheating. I'd view it the same as if my DP had abused a homeless person for a "laugh" on a night out, or used a racial slur."
What?? I assume you're talking about the mask slipping?
Hell I'd missed that gem from ALittleStranger
Do people really think abusing homeless people is something that can be excused?
I learn something new daily
I hope she meant she wouldn't clas it as cheating but would see it as proof of his fundamental character
oh OP i would be hopping mad right now
I would have cancelled the wedding by now. if my dh (to be) had a lapdance from a naked stripper his bags would be packed. i dont give a tiny shit about lame excuses like peer pressure etc and if he was drunk - how disrespectful. And his friends sound like absolute prize immature dicks as well.
i think you need to have a real long think about what sort of person you are going to be making a lifetime commitment to
you must be in bits. hugs to you x
"Older women?"
What, older women like all the feminists who fought for you to have the rights you have today? Yeah, right.
Yes but curlew we are going backwards again!
These threads illustrate that nicely.
This type of behaviour is widely accepted amongst many younger women as its seen as uncool or insecure to find it insulting.
I believe a ^secure* woman would feel able to speak up if they don't agree with something rather than just out up and shut up for fear of seeming controlling and insecure.
The fact in this case is that the op is upset by it so her fiancé should at least be discussing it with her rationally.
One week or one year, if you want to call off the wedding call it off. It might feel too hard but much harder is standing at the alter pledging your life to a man who has made you feel shit.
Have you got a sister or a best friend who can support you if you do want to cancel/postpone the wedding? It will be incredibly tough- but it is doable.
OH FFS I didnt mean ALL older women. I wasnt generalising That is why i used the word WHENEVER., and ive seen a lot of women posting on these boards whose OWN families and mothers have made excuses for what the DH is doing. And i am a feminist btw.
Curlew i could say you are generalising by saying that all older women are feminists Belive me they are not.
I could do nothing but use the phrase i used considering that for a woman in her late twenties/thirties to have a daughter old enough to get married is a FUCKING PHYSICAL IMPOSSIBILITY unless you know something i dont.
And i used the word WHENEVER WHENEVER WHENEVER in the context i used it in because ive seen the familes of women who have been mistreated or abused by their spouse time and time again ive seen the womens families side with the abusive spouse. Ive seen it many times on these boards.
darkest dies have a point though.
My own mother refuses to aknowledge the dv I suffered with my first partner. She thinks he's a nice bloke and I've made it up.
She's an otherwise sane and intelligent woman btw.
I got the feeling too that she thought it was my fault when my exh cheated!
Darkesteyes I know exactly where you are coming from.
I also think it is not a coincidence that women who are considering having marriages with men like this have mothers who excuse shitty male behaviour.
And I'm looking at you mum
So - after 11 pages of harrumphing, what are the OPs actual options then? Call it off? Leave The Bastard? Tell DH to remove the best man and the friends who called in the stripper from the wedding?
For this? When it's almost the norm on stag dos these days (and for many a year in fact).
And as for all those on here proclaiming the right-on saintliness of their DHs, I call bullshit. They just keep quiet.
Yes, I'm afraid my own mother, lovely though she is, also dismisses male bad behaviour on occasion. She would probably give the same advice as the op's mother I'm saddened to say. Sometimes I think she just wants all us daughters married off nicely. Honestly.
Personally, I would postpone. Well, I say that knowing what I do at 38. At 28, I would have ignored it, lived in denial and got on with it. Which I did. Much to my regret.
<Is that me slagging off younger women? >
Most of bloody Mumsnet- which presumably is mostly younger women, excuses male behaviour, on a regular basis.....
Lazyjaney not bullshit at all, some if us didn't marry tossers or move in the sorts of circles that normalise men using the sex industry. That's pretty insulting to men, actually.
Janey, you don't like men much, do you ?
Exactly, curlew, the older woman comment was taken completely wrong. A large proportion of all women excuse shit head men and soak it up on a daily basis.
The thing is we expect better advice from parents, don't know why, it's just disappointing when my mum says really bad male excusing things to me.
Youth is an understandable excuse iykwim.
I would cancel/postpone as well, mcmooncup - but then I'm older and wiser as well now.
In my 20's? I'm honestly not so sure - especially - being totally honest - if I already had a child with this man.
The best I can offer the OP is that I would give him a right scare and let him think that I will cancel - move out for a couple of days with dc, and let him sweat. At least let him see that I meant business about not doing this in the future.
And that best man would not have a place at my wedding table...no way.
lazyjane speak for yourself love.
Not normal behaviour in any of the men I know and my dh is far too intelligent to do shit like that. No bullshit required.
If its acceptable to you then fine but don't push your views onto others.
The older women comment was not taken completely wrong...please dont presume to tell me how I should think.
It seems that the issue is not actually older women, lets be specific. The issue for several of you is mothers.
Btw I have 3 adult sons a dh an ex dh a brother and many male friends. None of who would dream of this type of behaviour.
My DH had a lapdance/stripper on his stag do. Organised by the other men. I can honestly say it didn't bother me. I don't class it as cheating.
Obviously I understand that it does bother OP. But I just wanted to correct whoever upthread said that it would secretly bother all women.
We still live in a very mysogynistic society Its also a society that sees marriage and children as the ultimate goal.
Look at the way the media tv society etc presents single women. They are seen as desperate Bridget Jones types or living alone with cats (the living alone with cats sounds quite pleasant to me actually) In society there seems to be a certain status that comes with marriage.
As for my own mother ..well she comes out with mysogynistic comments like "she should have kept her legs closed" when talking about single mums. And will ALWAYS side with the man in a situation no matter what.
OP how are you feeling now. I really hope that your mums initial comment was a knee jerk reaction (though i have my doubts) and that she is supporting you. If not i hope you have a good close friend who you can confide in.
Going by what you said earlier about the comments your DP made when asked how he would feel if your daughter grew up to be a stripper i find those comments quite worrying.
it does scream Madonna/whore complex and that he thinks there are "good" women and "bad" women.
NotConnie you come across as very aggressive
YY mcmooncup EXACTLY.
And just to be clear, my dad and my ex-h were the actual problem. My mum just excused their behaviour, nothing more serious than that - disappointing at the most.
Dark, it is astounding the amount of misogyny we have to towards our own sex sometimes.
Take bullies at school, girls can be evil to each other. Its normally the girls who are worse.
I'm actually rather pleased its not just my mother!
the "exactly" was aimed at mooncups post at 20.59
ezio my mum would NOT let me shave my legs as a teen, Being half Italian im dark haired and its THICK hair. The girls in high school made my life HELL DM still wouldnt let me shave and didnt want to come to the school to sort it out either.
Because as girls/women we are taught from a young age to just suck it up and not be a bother.
I feel insulted mcmooncup when someone tries to tell me how I should think, or rather that I have taken something the wrong way.
As I said,I notice that ageism is overlooked on MN. And that was an ageist comment.
I have no desire to be aggressive, and I had been happy to leave the subject to drop, as I posted earlier.
Mother issues all around !
Sorry to hear that mooncup. My mum excuses DB on a regular basis. Its been since childhood.
Criticising older women en masse, that's misogyny in my book, darkest.
How on earth was that an agist comment. You have to be an older woman OR older man to have a grown up child That is a FACT.
I meant that the OPs mum should be more concerned with her daughters happiness than she sounded.
Being happy to leave the subject to drop = wanting the last word.
Reposting my original post.
DarkesteyesSun 04-Aug-13 18:30:46
worrybynatureSun 04-Aug-13 11:02:29
Even my mum is of the attitude that this is just a right of passage for the stag and I need to get over it
Whenever i hear this crap from older women it smacks of.
a. Back in my day i had to put up with it so why cant you.
b. I want some grandchildren.
Believe me yr mum has her own agenda Has she come out with the classic "if you cancel now it will look bad" or are you still waiting for that gem
I am "an older woman"
I am old enough to have a dd in her 20's
I wasn't offended by any comments here, and I am very sensitive to misogyny
Some women really are their own worst enemy, and the enemy of equal respect for the sexes.
Can you tell me how i am criticising older women on masse.
The word "whenever" is in my post for all to see.
And i am NOT a mysogynist. HOW FUCKING DARE YOU. Check my posting history if you are going to start name calling.
It wasn't an ageist comment though NotConnie.
Women have to survive in the patriarchy, so often just comply. That is what the comment is getting at.
It is nowhere near the fallacy of misogyny.
THankyou AF I was beginning to think im going mad.....oh hang on a min the thread title ......it couldnt be could it? Off to do a check.
"For this? When it's almost the norm on stag dos these days (and for many a year in fact)."
What a stupid thing to say. Just because lots of other men have strippers on their stag night and their fiancées don't care does not mean the OP shouldn't het rid if she wants. Some people are grown up and make their own decisions and not just do what someone else might.
DE ignore the poster who at best has simply misunderstood you < being generous >
It sounds like the BM (ironic title for a total cock) is the issue.
He knew this was not acceptable but he went ahead and arranged it. In a very confined space.
He was totally disgusting in your house making very insensitive and also inflammatory remarks (he would know that he was stirring up more and more trouble)
I think that the wedding shouldn't include him at all. He has lost his right to be included in your celebration.
Your dp needs to be VERY very very sorry and lovely to you. If he carries on with the "get over it" shit then THAT would in fact be the deal breaker for me. You may be able to forgive the lap dance if you know he is mortified that he has upset you and raised even a tiny doubt in your mind about your future together. Ok so a man might end up having a lap dance for whatever reason. But he would feel physically sick when he realised how it had made you feel.
He'd be doing everything to show you that this act of disrespect to himself, you and your daughter filled him with shame and regret.
Sorry OP. That shit of a BM has really caused a horrendous situation for you here, and just before your wedding that is unacceptable behaviour.
I don't want an argument. Frankly tonight I'm too exhausted for even just a healthy debate. But three of us found the comment to be somewhat insulting, so it's not just me that 'took it the wrong way'.
Darkesteyes has said that it wasn't intended to be offensive. So I will take her word for it.
You are right AF I shouldnt let it wind me up Most of the ppl here know im not a mysogynist. Its bloody laughable Thanks YOu too mooncup
Darkesteyes I am old enough to be a granny, I understood your comment and wasn't insulted either.
Thanks sap Thought i was going mad this evening. Been one of those days.
darkest I read your comment and it absolutely wasn't ageist at all.....think some things are taken out of proportion for the sake of it.
Anyway as we were.....Op, I hope you're feeling a little better, although I guess that's doubtful, but at least beginning to get things a little clearer in your mind.
I really feel for you. I'd absolutely hate it if dh had a lap dance, but I was going along with your dp getting swept along with it, being shitfaces, not paying for it, having it booked for him etc and was going to suggest you slept on it then sat down and had a thorough clearing the air session with him and try and make some sense of it all.
THEN I read that he had the lap dance because he was 'curious' and my blood boiled. That meant he actually made the decision to have it, even though he knew how you would react....that puts a whole different slant on it. I have no advice really, but I do advise you to think very carefully about the character of this man.
I asked my dh what he thought about it, get the man's perspective as it were, and he said exactly the same. Your partner had a choice, he was able to decide what to do.....
And that sodding best man would have had his arse kicked clean out the door if he'd said that to me, the bastard.
I don't think you can take anything at all he's said on the subject as an indicator of how he's really thinking or feeling actually.
I think his initial attitude, both last night in that limo and this morning in front of his mates and you is probably closest to the truth; he did it "just because" and he didn't particularly care about your feelings on the matter. Then, once he saw you were really upset, he started scrabbling around for clichés to shut you up.
And who knows what he's saying now, as the OP seems to have disappeared while we all scrap on here about mysogyny and ageism.
Lazyjanet you're username is very apt. Lazy effort to wind people up. No imagination
The real laziness/no imagination here is the page after page with post after post repeating the MN Mantra of "leave the bastard" (or in this case call off the wedding etc etc). I doubt most of them would even take their own advice in this situation.
Not lazy to stand by your beliefs and principles really is it?
Far lazier to just go along with stuff to please the menz
Lazyjaney I would have called off the wedding had I found out. I would have kicked him out if I discovered later down the line that he'd done it.
My proof? When I found out by chance that my husband had registered on a dating website I kicked him out and ended the marriage. No second chances, no explanation, didn't even listen to the excuses. What would be the point?
In some cases, LTB or call off the wedding is the right thing to do for the individual. There's no point have principles if you're going to abandon them as soon as they are challenged.
I wouldn't advise anyone to do anything on here that I wouldn't advise my best friend to do, or be prepared to do myself. I am well aware that these are real people with real lives.
Vivacia - well, you know, if would. But thanks for proving my point.
Your point hasn't been proven. A man or woman who used the sex industry whilst single, say, would not be being a hypocrit if they asked their partner to agree not to once in a relationship.
Also, you are allowed to grow, learn and change your mind. A man who paid for sex services is allowed to feel differently when his own adult child announces they want to work in the sex industry. I wouldn't think that man a hypocrit if he's genuinely changed his opinion and behaviour.
It sounds like your DP was aware of the booking prior to the stag night from his comments about being curious so he has totally disregarded your feelings on the matter
The 'licked her minge' comment is vile and the fact he sat there and said nothing would indicate that this happened or he would have vigourously denied this. I agree with others that the girl was likely to be an escort/prostitute. I couldnt imagine wanting to marry someone who would do this, sorry OP
*Hell I'd missed that gem from ALittleStranger
Do people really think abusing homeless people is something that can be excused?
I learn something new daily sad*
Eh do you have poor comprehension skills? In what way am I saying oggling strippers, abusing homeless people or being a racist is excusable?
I thought that too. The casual acceptance of awful behavioiur.
What were you saying Alittle?
It came across as "ah it's not that bad.
It's only like abusing a homeless person".
Sorry, I was working on the assumption that we all knew racism was a Bad Thing and comparing something to it should obviously be a criticism...
See above Walter, in my mind those things are obviously bad so saying the OP's behaviour is on a par is obviously not an endorsement of that behaviour. Clearly you are more tolerant than me! He's being a rude and offensive dick, and that's his "crime". But I don't think "cheating" sums up the problem here.
Ah I see. I misunderstood.
I agree with you
I took Alittlestrangers comments to mean that she put this behaviour in the same bracket as these other vile things, that was all.
Hey OP - how are you holding up? I hope your ok.
My thoughts on this through experience is that this feels awful for you as I know you probably have a series of awful images running through your head of some young taught, toned, bouncy firm boobs etc etc etc dancing in front of your dp and grinding on him. At the same time you cant help but think to yourself, no matter what your views or his views on strippers is, with these images running through your mind you end up thinking....how can he have not had at least some enjoyment out of this how can it not have been turning him on??? and it kind of makes you feel completely robbed because the only person your dp is supposed to see in that way is you, the only person meant to be turning your dp on is you! and it feels like such a betrayal.
To those that would compare stripping to porn is not even in the same realm for me, because porn is not someone in front of your man who is touching him, and who he can touch. Its a real person and that makes a big difference.
My Dp ended up in strip club (quiet some years back now) and I know he hates the places because he feels uncomfortable, but it was corporate night out with clients and so it wasn't like he could refuse. He actually had me pick him up from the strip club, he laughed when he was telling me how when he called me and told me where to collect him from that all the other guys were going nuts saying while didn't you get her to pick you up from the pub round the corner??!!! your going to be in trouble....she's going to have your ass etc etc. Anyhoo an hour after the phone call I picked Dp up from lap dancing bar and drove him home. I have to say I wasn't remotely bothered that he had been in there, but when he revealed he had been bought a dance by one of the clients I felt awful. He explained how he felt he couldn't turn in down because it was a client etc etc and I know how much he dislikes those things and all that. Despite knowing he would never go to one of these places of his own volition and that he would never pay to have a dance, I also know he is a red blooded male and whether he paid for it or not he must have enjoyed it at least a little!! I have to say I did have a massive row with him about it and I wasn't the same with him for some time after that. Even though I actually didn't think he had done anything wrong per se....as I knew he hadn't sought out to go to a strip club, he hadn't paid for the dance, it wasn't like any of it was what he intended.....what I was upset with was the fact that he might have/probably did enjoy the dance, she most likely made him hard (sorry to be crude), he prob wondered what she was like in bed etc etc and that is what I found really hurt, it hurt and I felt betrayed and I made him understand that and in the end we got over it....and now it's something we laugh about. However, if he had arranged to go to the strip club, if he had sought it out, if he had paid for a dance I do not think it is something I would have gotten over, because then he would have actively betrayed me, he would have intentionally hurt me, and been trying to get his rocks off looking at some other woman dancing and gyrating in front of him. So for me that is where the difference in forgivable and not forgivable lies.
Also OP, in the years since this happened I have ended up having some friends who are strippers and I have been to their places of work and let me tell you...none of the strippers look like pam anderson or like FHM babes, most of them have stretch marks, cellulite, bad teeth, etc, the only difference really between them and us is that they walk around with it all in full view for work. Having gotten to know some of the girls who do this job, they are all normal and just like other women, they have stretch marks because they have kids, the have cellulite because they confess to eating a few too many chocolate bars, they have hang ups about their bodies too. Perhaps most comforting though, is that all they are interested in when it comes to dancing for guys is the size of their wallets!! One of the girls told me that while she is gyrating on a guy she is usually thinking about the list of things she needs to get for shopping the next day.
I hope that helps OP, and I hope that you do manage to get through it! I am sorry that this has hurt you and I am sorry it feels so awful right now, but it does go away, it did for me. Those images will fade, and if you feel like it, you can replace them with new happy memories. The stripper was a cheap thrill (and not of his own doing), but you are who he loves, wants to marry etc, and I bet (whether you think it or not) your ten times sexier to him every day of the week and twice on sunday's because you have his heart.
OMG sorry that post is so long I didn't realise eek!! sorry!
Are people wilfully misunderstanding ALittleStranger's post? Was it really not obvious what was meant?
Are people wilfully misunderstanding ALittleStranger's post? Was it really not obvious what was meant?
Not wilfully, no. But I did misunderstand.
Lily that post sums up the exact situation- thank you. Everything you have said is how I am feeling. Yes I am imagining her being gorgeous and him wanting her and it really truly hurts.
How are things today worry? What's happening about the wedding? I keep thinking about your predicament. Hope you're as ok as can be.
Well I think I'm going to have to accept that this has happened and move forward. We have agreed to disagree on whether having a stripper at his stag was appropriate, he is of the belief that it is a tradition, I am of the belief that it is disrespectful. I have told him that now he knows how I feel about strippers, if he ever has a lap dance again on someone else's stag do, it is a deal breaker. He has spoken to the best man who has apologised for the minge comment, he was still drunk when he said it. Dp is still the man I love and want to be with forever. We will still be getting married on Sunday, which I am happy about, but will always feel sad when I think about his stag of somebody mentions it. All the stag goers have been told to delete any pics of dp with the stripper as it would actually break my heart to see her on top of him
As long as DP and the others know, that if that happens again, then theres trouble.
Dont think about the stag party, because in your mind it'll be worse case scenario, and that'll drive you mad.
Just think, DP is gonna marry you, no one else.
Thanks Ezio x
OP I'm glad that you've worked out a resolution that works for you. Congratulations for Sunday, hope you have a lovely day.
Hi Op, sorry, didnt he know before the stag do that it was a 'deal breaker' for you? I may have missed that somewhere and there is a lot to skim back over.
Glad you've managed to come to a resolution and have your mind at ease. Hope you have a lovely wedding and make lots of great memories.
He got off lightly didn't he
Bet the BM is having a good laugh at your expense. You already told your DP that having a stripper was a dealbreaker. What changed your mind.
He now knows you have really not got any boundries as you will backtrack each and every time.
I wish you well for the wedding--and for the future because l fear with friends like DP has, you are going to need all the luck in the world for this to be a happy ever after story.
Glad to hear you have decided to come to an agreement over things. I know it is a terribly sad thing to happen so close to the wedding as I am sure that this somewhat takes the shine off things for you. But like you say, you still love him and still want to be with him. Now he understands clearly what you think and feel about the whole stripper thing and therefore there can be no excuses for further escapades of this type in future.
What you have to do is concentrate on the fact that he loves you and is getting married to you, he is going to stand up in front of all your friends and family and tell the whole world that he loves and is committed to you. No stripper in the world can compare to that, so please don't let it ruin your beautiful big day!
Don't torture yourself with picturing her (hard I know as I have been there and done that) but instead try and focus on what a wonderful day your wedding will be. I am sure that you will look a million dollars and he is going be a lucky man to have married you xx
I really think the OP needs our support now.
We will certainly give her support again when she comes back a year or two down the line--and she will be back l have no doubt !!
<<shrugs shoulders and leaves thread>>
Because she's made her decision and we, knowing so little about their relationship, should respect it?
Because if our fears are correct, and she needs support and help in the future, we want her to feel that this is a safe place open to her?
OP thanks for the update.
Glad that you feel reassured enough to reach a decisioin.
Have a lovely day.
I would consider what he did a green light to sleep with another man. I would too and then tell him about it see how he feels then.
Please tell me he's at least binned the best man..........
Thanks for the update worry. Everyone is human and entitled to make a mistake and i'm sure you will both move on from this. I hope best
worst man apologised to you personally and not through your soon to be DH. Have a great wedding and don't let this blip in an otherwise sound relationship ruin your day.
But he doesn't think he's made a mistake- he still thinks he was in the right........
And people don't say things when they are drunk that aren't already in their minds. They might not say those things while sober, but they definitely think them.
I do get why you want to go ahead with the wedding.
To create as many happy memories as possible, the best man really needs to be banned - his smug presence will mar the whole occasion which is supposed to be the best day of your life.
Good luck.
EzioMon 05-Aug-13 14:55:12
As long as DP and the others know, that if that happens again, then theres trouble.
I cant speak for anyone else on here but i couldnt be in a marriage where i was looking over my shoulder waiting for the next thing to happen and i certainly couldnt be in a marriage where i had to police and micro manage and have to constantly check up on what the DH is up to with his so called "friends" I would find marriage to someone who behaves like a naughty boy a complete turn off tbh.
YY BelaLugosi
I really don't get the obsessing over what the strippers look like. What difference does it make. So its ok if he 'licked the minge' of an ugly stripper? Its somehow more tolerable if a fat ugly person was the one with her tits in your DH face?
How incredibly sad
He didn't lick her minge...
I too am sorry this has happened
Make sure it is condition that the best man apologises in person to you ant the very least and make sure any reference/ sniggering behind your back type if blatant disrespect will not be tolerated especially on the day itself
Good luck
What value is his apology if he doesn't think what he did was wrong? And that you've been over-reacting?
Anyway, you've decided to overlook it.
see you back here in due course.
Dark Its her choice to marry him still, shes made her feelings clear, and shes decided to go ahead with the wedding.
We can advise and support, we cant tell her what to do.
oh worry
OP has made her decision, and she knows her OH better than any of us! I don't see the point in taunting her on the run up to her wedding with these little digs.
Yeah shame you're probably right. I just can't help feeling that she's taking the perceived easier way out now, which is to stick her head in the sand, but that it is likely to rear its ugly head again in the future.
But, as you say, it's her decision. She knows more of the whole picture than we do, of course.
And I want to smack her OH, and his BM even harder!
I wasnt telling her what to do i was saying what i couldnt do. Which is why i started that post "I cant speak for anyone else on here" Still didnt stop me being gaslighted on here again though!
Anyway Good Luck OP I hope he grows up and that he and the BM start treating you with some respect.
Sorry Dark, didnt mean to upset you,
Pisses me off no end that that BM is going to be schmoozing around at the wedding smirking! Can't you at least get him binned?
And I'd want proof that those photos were deleted.
The fact they even took photos is just another cringe in the story.
Good luck OP.
I've been thinking some about the downright disrespect that's been shown to you and I hope you have given your Stbdh Conditions.
Mine would be
Making him aware how hurt and disrespected you feel and if he would like the marriage, never mind the wedding, to go ahead then this is what he needs to do
1. Every photo hunted down and deleted
2. NO mention of that night to be even hinted at by anyone especially the vile sounding BM
3. If your Stbdh cannot guarantee the BM can do this then he is very welcome to find another BM
4. If you are disrespected on your wedding day then either the BM leaves or you will - I would if it was me
His choice then whether or not it all goes ahead
Good luck
It will be mentioned in the best man's speech. Guaranteed. Because that the best man is still the best man has shown him that he can do and say absolutely anything he likes.
Good on you OP, rational decision, and ignore the thread bitter enders.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt!
I too hope that conditions have been set by OP, although I fear not.
And with regard to the pics...well they were probably shared immediately and by now could be anywhere.
I hope he has learnt his lesson.
It's disgusting for anyone to pay for services like this but it's not like the groom paid for it himself.
It just makes him easily led which is worrying really and it would make me think a lot less on the best man as he sounds like a complete eejit.
I'd feel a lot happier if your DP was saying he felt it was wrong then I'd definitely say moving onward and upward was a good idea but of course he hasn't.
Perhaps in a few years when he's older and wiser he may think differently - I hope so.
But honestly if the best man causes any more trouble don't feel obliged to just sit there and put up with it because you don't have to. My friend I mentioned above had a friend (who I used to be in a semi involved way with, stupid me) was the one who bought him to the strip club. He also caused trouble by pulling a condom out at the wedding reception infront of the bride's parents who are in their mid 60s and not impressed in the slightest. It wasn't funny and he wouldn't apologise for offending, because he is a 'why should I' type person so he just kicked off and ended up getting chucked out so therefore ruining the rest of the party as it sent an argument between the bride and the groom that night as well as him asking me to take sides which I wasn't willing to do and I honestly saw that they both were being a bit stupid about things.
Anyway I digress, just pointing out that sometimes someone can be a great friend to someone but at the end of the day if you know they are going to cause trouble you do have to put your foot down. If the best man genuinely seems remorseful and is just a bit of an immature fellow especially while drunk, hopefully you can get past it with him too if this really wont be repeated
especially at the wedding; perhaps he doesn't have much experience with ladies?
Anyway wish you the best of luck with your wedding I am sure it'll be an amazing day
My apologies Ezio i probably over reacted Sorry. Its a very emotive subject and the thought of the BM standing at the altar grinning makes my teeth itch.
But it is OPs decision.
Poos i was reading a wedding special in a mag a few months back. It was about what had gone wrong at weddings
In one case during the best mans speech he said "As you enjoyed yr stag night so much we have arranged for the stripper to be here tonight" and in she walked to the reception.
Your BM here sounds similar to this arsehole.
Sorry i meant the OPS DHS BM.
Unfortunately darkest it sounds sound a lot like him.
He seems to think objectifying women is just the way things are and there isn't anything wrong with it, it's nothing personal to me or any other woman.
Except my friends wife of course, who is a 'fat bitch' apparently.
Very charming man, why I ever liked him I don't know
perhaps because I was 16 and he was 24?
Dark, it grates on me too, i'd hate that smug shit stirring prick giving a speech at my wedding.
Hes a mysogynist Poos.
YY Ezio.
Speaking as someone who married a man who had a lap dance at his stag do, and also friends a bit like your DPs, I can understand why there's no way you feel you can bail out of the wedding. ie - it will seem like too big a step for you to make. My ex also thought there was nothing wrong with it. I made excuses along the "all men are like this" lines (they're really not) and went ahead and married him - and was happyish for a year or so.
I am now divorced (marriage lasted 6 years). My ex hid his views about women less and less as our marriage went on, and became pretty abusive and bullying towards me. I'm so glad to be out of it now - it's like breathing fresh air.
I can't think what advice to give you, except to maybe make sure you stand up for what you believe in - you say you were crying and upset - you have every right to be angry too. Don't let him ever say you're the problem and that you "nag" if you're trying to stand up for anything you believe in. Think about and write down things you believe are deal breakers and decide you will stick to that - it's horribly easy to put up with more and more once you let certain things happen. On a practical note - if it's possible, I would say set up a separate savings account and pay into it - it never hurts to have a bit of money behind you if you ever need to rethink your life.
I don't think you should go into your wedding unhappily - but maybe in a way feel more confident underneath that you have decided what your boundaries are, and know that you will stick to that.
I hope you have a good wedding. It's a stupid thing to do but I honestly don't believe there's any nasty intent in there. Very surprised you were allowed to know, guys usually keep all that sort of stuff in house.
Prey tell us rek What else shouldnt the OP be "allowed" to know.
And if the OP had a hen night and afterwards a friend wound her DH up about the OP sucking the male strippers cock, you of course would say the same thing rek ....that there was no nasty intent there.
I honestly wish you well.
Nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes. Not sure if it is acceptable to cancel a wedding over one mistake but we dont know the whole story so I accept that you have given this 'A LOT' of consideration before you made your decision.
Good luck and congratulations. I hope you can both put this behind you and be very happy. However, please please do not leave MN. I am not saying you will be back with your own relationship problems but I do think that there is much clarification regards boundaries and a lot of support, which you might find helpful.
Thanks all! Lots of things to think about. I guess as you say, time will tell? I don't feel that he has now been given a green light, quite the opposite, he now knows what will be an instant deal breaker.
Not saying she shouldn't have been allowed to know - far from it. Just that guys are usually very careful about these sort of things IME
Plus no nasty intent from the DH, not his friend
I hope all goes well for you.
Struggling to see how somebody can have a lap dance and tell his partner that there was nothing wrong with it and she was over reacting and not have "nasty intent"
Me too Curlew.
The thread reminded me of something that happened when I'd been married for about a year and my husband and his friends went to see strippers at a local club. This wasn't lap dancing, it was the more old fashioned type of stripper - standing on a makeshift stage in some squalid pub while the men all gather round throwing fivers at her.
My husband knew that I'd be very upset by the whole thing and didn't tell me. I found out 3 months later from the wife of one of his friends.
I was never quite able to get past it, even 20 years later it still bothered me. It changed my view of him and how he regarded women and I lost respect for him.
But, OP has made up her mind, she asked us how to get over it and it seems as if she's somehow managed to do that.
Now I feel that all I can do is support her decision.
I do wish her the best and I do hope she's got over it 'enough' that it doesn't bother her for years to come.
It wont be an instant deal breaker though will it? It was a deal breaker before the stag do, but yet he's got off scot free, so next time he does it on the next stag do he will get away with it again. Or, more likely, make sure you dont find out next time.
What a great start to married life.
I don't see that it was "one mistake" either. In his opinion, it wasn't a mistake at all. He doesn't see any problem with it and thinks the OP is over-reacting.
You have "agreed to disagree," on the matter, but I don't see how that works. Would you agree to disagree on him shagging someone else, if he didn't see the issue and thought you were fussing? All this means is that he can do what the hell he likes and you've got to keep your opinions to yourself.
Good luck with this.
I'm not sure that criticising the OP about her considered decision to proceed is particularly helpful.
Good luck worrybynature. It's your choice and hopefully you have enough information and confidence in your gut feeling to be happy with it.
Hay there, god this rings home and makes me feel sick hearing it happen to someone else. I found out my DH went to a strip club on his stag do and his mates paid for him to have a private nude lap dance. I found out by accident 3 years later. Absolutely devastated me as i found out while i was pregnant then subsequently after i had our DS i couldn't take my mind off it, feeling totally inadequate and with the image of another woman all over my DH, it was just horrible and i have to say almost 12 months on and i still have issues now. We ended up going to counseling sessions so my husband could understand the devastation he'd caused me, some of which he hadn't realised. He blamed it all on his friends and some childish boy curiosity, but ended up accepting responsibility and admitted he should never have gone knowing how i would feel about it (i never really talked to him about strip clubs before except a jokey 'no strip clubs!' as he left the house!).
Anyway, I know you're wedding must be coming up and you're going through some serious issues, i do question myself if i had of known before i got married if i would of gone through with it. But at the end of the day i have to be realistic, my DH is an amazing man, son, husband and now daddy to our DS and I love him. He knows how much he's hurt me and is as devastated as i am, our counseling sessions were as upsetting for him as they were for me. He's been so supportive since and knows what im thinking if i see something say on TV which will remind me of what happened. I hate to say it but sometimes men think they can get away with it on their stag do, no its not right, its not fair especially if you're already set ground rules about it, but it feels for them like a tradition they only get one opportunity to go and do, so to speak. Would my DH go back, no, never and i can 100% trust that he wont. He knows if he ever did anything like that again that would be the end of us.
My advise to you is that you need to talk to him honestly about it, how its hurt you and why its hurt you. It might be something to speak to him about before the wedding, or save for some time after. He needs to listen to you without going off one one, blaming mates or the fact it was a stag do, at the end of the day if the shoe was on the other foot how would he feel? You'll have people on here saying dump him etc (thats a lot of the responses i had), but only you know your husband, what is he really like, do you think you can trust him again. I wouldnt call off the wedding without some serious serious doubts as to his integrity, this might have just been a one off, he's marring you, he loves you!
I really truly feel for you, i hope it all works out and you can get past this. xxx
By the way his best man sounds like a dick, if it were me as part of the 'punishment' so to speak, i'd say he wont be best man and for your DP to choose someone else. This will put current best man in his place. Is there any reason why this guy would want to cause trouble between you and your DP?
The person i found out from (through seeing a text msg conversation between him and my DH), is aware that i was upset by it all (doesnt know full story that we almost split up at lowest point and went to counseling), but now whenever we are out at every opportunity will mention strippers, the last time he did it I was just exasperated by it all and almost left the dinner table, instead i asked my husband to tell him to stop. He didnt want to raise the issue so that his mate was aware of how serious it had been so hasn't....but i've promised that next time he mentions a stripper he'll regret it. His partner isnt aware of what happened and that he too had a lap dance just for the hell of it, i dont want to cause hurt to his DW but he knows what he's doing and maybe its time he dealt with the reality of his DW finding out........ (am i mean?!)
If you've decided to forgive him then just remember:-
When you accept somebody, you accept their past too. Don`t hold it against them later
It's in the past now and you need to move on.
I hope you have a lovely day and enjoy being the centre of attention.
Don't let that dick of a BM take it away from you!
Thank you so much. It still hurts to think of it, and I accept it may do for a long time. Counselling would be something we could consider for the future if it is still hurting me. Dp does definitely see how much this has hurt me, and he does love me, so I believe him when he says this will not happen again. Another consolation is that he said when she got on top of him (bleurgh) and was dancing, it felt inappropriate and awkward and wrong, and only lasted a few minutes before he told her to move on to someone else. I also feel very pleased that he told me, as I would hate for it to be this big secret between him and his friends that is laughed about behind my back for god knows how long.
Another consolation is that he said when she got on top of him (bleurgh) and was dancing, it felt inappropriate and awkward and wrong, and only lasted a few minutes before he told her to move on to someone else.
Oh come on love he would say that wouldn't he. He's not admit to you he enjoyed it will he?.
He will say whatever he has to for you to decide after all that this is NOT a deal breaker.
I think if you brush it under the carpet now you will regret it op. I would definitely postpone the wedding if I were you. There is no sense in settling for an inadequate man or marriage even if people around you are pressuring you to think the inadequacies are small. Over time, through marriage, inadequacies grow. This is a pretty important set of his; disrespecting your boundaries, minimising your feelings and having dickhead mates that he sides with against you.
There are intellectual arguments (objectification and misogyny) and emotional ones (jealousy, insecurity) not sure why the emotional ones are being used to minimise the intellectual ones, they are related surely?
If you believe in monogamy and have agreed to be monogamous then it isn't beyond the realms of belief that prostitutes, strippers and porn might be considered infidelity (no it isn't the same as seeing someone you are attracted to at the beach because that isn't consumption for sexual excitement, it is just attraction) and that this might provoke jealousy. What each person considers infidelity to be is personal as are choices about monogamy. There is no 'making people (men) lie' by being 'unreasonable'. There is only feeling you are entitled to lie because you think you are more important or because you are a selfish coward who doesn't have much respect for your partner. If your beliefs differ you are each entitled to them and are incompatible.
The defence that porn, strippers, prostitutes are not a 'real' sexual experience and therefore are objectively unable to be called infidelity only holds water if you are saying a sexual services buying/consuming partner is fine to be sexually excited by a lack of connection with the reality of the person providing that sexual service. In this day and age if it is about sex then there are a myriad of ways to get it for free whoever you are, the excitement comes from the debasement of paying to objectify IMO, since there is really no need to pay for sex now. This is a problem when it comes to real sexual relationships because it shows a linking of sexual excitement to an active or passive lack of concern for the source of that excitement.
The insecurity that many partners feel comes from the objectification. It is the recognition that their partner is sexually excited by paying for a body. That that obviously puts their focus onto their own bodies in their minds, it leads to their own objectification of themselves and makes them feel as though things other than their bodies which make up themselves don't matter. This is a normal reaction if a bit misguided because often the people paying for the service have a madonna/whore complex or actually are just pathetic people (mates) pleasers who say one thing to their partners and another to their mates and never really enjoy anything particularly.
I wouldn't want to be with either although unfortunately I have discovered I am married to the latter. That's my bias if I have one.
Be very careful who you hitch your wagon to, especially if you have a daughter already. It is much harder to undo and gets harder and harder as the children get older. Don't settle for anything where marriage is concerned, don't do it unless it is absolutely right rather than a compromise. Postponing now might mean marrying this man later worked out better if that's the way you want to go. Doing it the way you propose simply says to him he is right that it isn't a big deal and it sets a precedent for your boundaries in the future; he doesn't need to respect them (or you) if you have them and neither do his mates.
At the end of the day we
Don't know what mind of relationship the op has with her partner. He made a mistake In here eyes. He being a typical bloke and brushing it away!! Op has made her choice to honour her love for her partner and her dd and wants to marry him!!! Who gives anybody the right to tell her she is doing something wrong!!! All that matter is its right for the op !!! Not one of u lot ok this thread is perfect and we all make mistakes, we live and learn so get them hoiky knickers out ur arses and let the op live her life and make her choices!!!
Op - glad u talked and you managed to wrinkle out the small creases!! Good luck on your wedding! :-)
He needs to really understand just why this "all blokes together" crap is so damaging to relationships and to women in general, stag night rituals can be a weird and twisted "male bonding" excercise, with the weaker personalities not wanting to step out of line for fear of humiliation, it really is like something from the schoolyard, pathetically so, in fact.
I'd say that losing the best man is a minimum condition for going ahead with the wedding, it's the only way of knowing for sure that you are number one in your partner's eyes.
I wouldn't want a bar of the "tell him it is the best man or you" stuff either. Facts are he's making poor choices, in his relationships across the board which indicate he is a dickhead himself or weak and immature. He's the one who should be calling his mate out, that fact he hasn't is worrying and you doing it would only potentially make you the bad guy and him the victim.
I agree it is good that he told you btw. There is a lot of pressure to do the whole "what happens on stag stays on stag" thing...
However I still think this has introduced some questions and problems which I think it would be better to sort out before marriage rather than hoping for the best.
Thistle- think that's the main point. When something like this happens in a relationship you don't know yourself really what kind of relationship you have for sure. It needs time and rebuilding before you can be sure. There is less than a week to the wedding, it is such a risk to go ahead with it.
Fair point Offred, he should have been proactive and told the best man where to go himself, but TBH, I wouldn't care about being cast as the bad guy by making demands, her needs are priority in this situation, if he makes a fuss about any conditions she applies to this wedding, it will tell her all she needs to know about his priorities and how he will act in the future.
OP, do you think he would have told you if he wasn't "disgustingly drunk"?
Anyfucker yes I do. He is very honest and has never lied to me. He knew I would find out eventually, as the truth will always come out
I would be cancelling the wedding or at least postponing it until we had counselling. Also best man must no longer be part of his life as he had totally disrespected me. The run up to your wedding should be a happy time, yours can't be until this is resolved and that will take time.
Your partner needs to know how much he has hurt you and you need to have respect for yourself by standing up to him and his mates by not backing down.
I don't think anything anyone does in 6 days could give you an accurate picture of who they really are enough to marry them. That's why I'd advise postponing.
The op (presumably) thought she was marrying someone who understood and respected her boundaries and respected her. This is no in doubt. It may still be the case but I very much doubt you would be able to find out either way in the 6 day run up to the wedding.
That effectively means the choice is to take a risk marrying and hope that it turns out to be a stupid mistake rather than an indication of his real attitude to the op/women.
Am I right in thinking the best man is still the best man?
The BM would have to go if this was me. No way I'd want him at my wedding after all of this.
Ladies she's made her mind up. For better or worse and all that. Is there really any need to keep on worrying at it?
Won't it feel uncomfortable when the BM is giving his speech and toasting you and your DP to a happy life together, knowing that last week he was encouraging your DP to have a lap dance from a complete stranger? Also the bit in the wedding ceremony where you friends and family promise to support you as a couple, his friends have just shown they won't be doing that.
You are in a very difficult position because your DP hasn't given you much time to think about and make a decision about all of this. In fact, you are backed into a corner to accept it and follow through with the wedding to keep everyone happy as so much money has already been spent. Then effectively he has made what happened acceptable and can do it again knowing that you didn't leave the first time and that it's even harder to leave a marriage. The fact that he hasn't actually apologised for hurting you says it all.
To be fair to the op though, cancelling a wedding so close would be really hard and expensive I assume.
Most of us do put up with a bit if crap before totally ending a long term relationship.
What would concern me though op is his complete lack of ownership of what he's actually done and his upset you are about it.
It seems that despite you saying he's a good man he can't even get that fundamental thing right.
If you love someone you don't want them to feel awfull even if you don't feel it's justified and would attempt to make thi ha better for your partner.
It "only lasted a few minutes before he told her to move on to someone else???"
A few minutes?!! That's a heck of a long time to have someone gyrating in your face.
Can I ask you what your OH's response was with regard to ditching the best man? Or did you not suggest it?
before he told her to move on to someone else.
I thought the strip was performed in a hummer.. so how could she move on to someone else This sounds more like something that would be said in a club.
YY Offred i said the same thing a few pages back This man has a Madonna/whore complex.. emphasised by the attitude he showed when asked how he would feel if his daughter did this when she was older.
And the DH is EVERY bit as responsible as the best man is. Would the DH have murdered someone if the best man asked hin to FFS.
The OPS DH after getting a lap dance in a hummer said that if his year old daughter grew up to be a stripper he wouuld hate it.
I mentioned the Madonna/whore complex and got shouted down by a poster who said that its perfectly alrright for a man to change his mind about this as he gets older and that its not hypocritical
absolutely nothing to do with a man getting older and his sex drive dropping off so he doesnt care when hes older as long as he can get his jollies when hes younger and wants it more
Wow Dark I've just read that article.
I don't know which one of them I respect less!
I'm sure it would be difficult and expensive to postpone the wedding, I'm sure it would upset a lot of people and cause a lot of emotional stress but I think saving face, saving money etc are not reasons to go ahead with a marriage you can't be sure of.
A divorce on top of years of potential hurt or the prospect of staying long term in a marriage with the wrong person seem much worse to me.
How can he say that he wouldn't like his daughter to become a stripper but yet be curious and allow a stripper to give him a lapdance? That was someone elses daughter!! Hypocrisy at its best!
I couldn't marry a man like that, especially one who allowed his "best man" to torment and hurt me, minimised my feelings and expected me to just move on. Sorry OP, but IMO, especially so long as that friend of his hangs about, things will only get worse.
If that's his choice of "best" man l would hate to meet his "worst" man.
If that's his choice of "best" man l would hate to meet his "worst" man.
OP ignore the bitter enders here, it's all very sour grapes.
What is lazyjaney?
Saying something like this (breaking
(Breaking boundaries, minimising hurt and not supporting your gf with a dickhead mate) is a significant issue that needs time to work out and that it is unwise to take a risk on a marriage you can't be sure of when you have a small child.
Stag do with a stripper are nothing new.
She won't be the first to ask for no stripper and he won't be the first BM to not listen. That's the culture right or wrong.
It's laughable how some post are encouraging her to cancel the wedding or the very least not invite the BM.
If my wife tells me who should be my friends or not then that would be the end of us.
Go ahead and listen to the wise people and cancel the wedding.
What's probably practical is to make it clear nothing like this will ever happen.
She already did that, arsenal
I've only said postponing the wedding is wise.
It isn't about the stripper.
It is about the fact the position of the op was known to her p and he not only disregarded it but he minimised it and then said nothing when his friend humiliated her over it.
It is possible (if I am being generous) that he was being a drunken arse when not used to alcohol and that he may well be a respectful partner but it seems like something to take seriously and if there is a question over whether a partner has respect for you (or your entire gender) it seems crazy to take a risk on marrying them anyway when you could take some time to properly consider and find out instead.
There is
If my wife tells me who should be my friends or not then that would be the end of us.
Why? She wouldn't be the first wife to ask this. That's the culture, right or wrong. It's laughable that you would finish your relationship over such a small thing.
Should have said:
I've only said postponing the wedding is wise.
It isn't about the stripper.
It is about the fact the position of the op was known to her p and he not only disregarded it but he minimised it and then said nothing when his friend humiliated her over it.
It is possible (if I am being generous) that he was being a drunken arse when not used to alcohol and that he may well be a respectful partner but it seems like something to take seriously and if there is a question over whether a partner has respect for you (or your entire gender) it seems crazy to take a risk on marrying them anyway when you could take some time to properly consider and find out instead.
There is plenty of time for a wedding when this has been worked through. Especially important to get it right for the child that is involved.
But I agree about the friends bit actually.
You don't have to like your partner's friends but I would seriously doubt someone's love for me if they casually ignored their friend actively treating me like shit on their shoe.
I'd dump the fucker though, I wouldn't ask them to dump their friend.
I'd find it demeaning and my p pathetic if I needed to ask them to dump a friend like this tbh.
I dont think that uninviting the BM is the same thing as telling the DP to dump a friend. Getting married is a serious business not a weekend barbecue. The guests should be people who both bride and groom are happy to have participate in their wedding.
What's the point in asking your p to uninvite his best mate though?
If it doesn't come from him himself it is a sign he doesn't care that his mate treats his future wife like shit on his shoe and if she asks to have him excluded the p (and bm by extension) can place himself into the victim role and the op into the villian thereby enabling himself to feel justified in (him and his mate) treating her with no respect.
I'm afraid I'd be more concerned with considering whether the p was a friend of the marriage than the (somewhat irrelevant) arsehole wedding guest. That's surely a vastly more important issue the arsehole has helpfully highlighted BEFORE the wedding...
OP, i really want you to put comments from this forum to one side for a minute, i know in my experience most of the comments i had tended to make things 10 times more hurtful than was actually helpful!
One of the best things someone did said to me though was that 'only you know the bones of your DP'. Are his actions worth separating over? People do make mistakes and by the sounds of it his best man had a lot to do with this. You sound like you are defending him against a lot of negative comments which i think answers the question in your own heart of how you truly feel. Is he a good husband, father, son? Do his good qualities outweigh this one off incident?
At our counseling session she said in some ways its the realisation that the image you always had of this person has changed. In some relationships this can happy early on, in others it happens further down the line and it can be potentially more hurtful in this way. I always placed my husband on this pedestal and part of this was that i never even questioned him after the stag do because i just assumed it wasn't something he would ever do. I know this is different as you did stipulate this before hand, but i'm guessing in a hummer its been a difficult situation to avoid, in comparison to actually walking into a strip club. I told my husband in the counselling that i couldnt get over it and didnt think i could forgive him for, the counseelor said that you should not be expected to just get over it but rather take your own time to work through your thoughts and feelings. It was also ok for me not to forgive him, its something that really hurt me and i shouldnt have to, it doesnt mean we cant move on though, does that make sense?
The issues i had following our lowest point were basically around my personal body issues, and these are still ongoing. after having DS i dont look like i used to, stretch marks and baby belly just make me feel so inadequate and i still have images of this gorgeous skinny tanned girl all over my DH. This sounds similar to what you're thinking about, but when ive spoken to my DH and i said you must have fancied her and wanted to have sex with her and obviously now im a disappointment, he said no, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Its true i guess, I dont fancy all the guys at the gym and their buff bodies, and i didnt notice when my DH put on weight because i love him and have always found him to be completely sexy. Your DP wants to marry you, he's had a child with you and he had the decency to tell you what had happened and how much he regretted it.
I'm not saying its going to be easy, there are going to be highs and lows but in my experience i had to accept that my DH made a mistake and move on. When i see him with our son and when we spend time as a family i couldnt imagine it any other way, i never wanted to leave him, i was / still am hurting, doesnt mean i dont love him though.
I really do hope you sort things out and have an amazing day at the weekend, i'm so sorry you're going through this at a time when you should be so happy and excited. I would seriously remove the BM from his position though, it will only anger you on the day seeing him. Ask DP to make him an usher instead and ask someone else, its the least he can do in the situation. If you need anything else please feel free to PM me, i've been there so know exactly how you're feeling, even if its just for a rant without the fear of being judged on here!
Sending you all my best thoughts x
Something charbon once said to me about my own relationship comes to mind. It was about being the "moral guardian" of my dh and his mates. This is what happens when you start explaining to and setting boundaries for p's who walk on your boundaries and mates who behave misogynistically etc and asking for mates who treat you like crap to be excluded from various things. You set yourself up to be the parent, the bad guy and the moral guardian and you place your p in the child/victim's position, you take on the entire emotional weight of the relationship.
It is some of the best and most insightful advice I've ever been given.
And good lord, I'm not talking about separating (although I think I would I know the op is different) but I am suggesting the wedding is postponed... Postponed rather than cancelled btw...
Viv my wife telling me who I should be friends with will mean I will resent her, meaning the end of us.
My husband (or husband to be) standing by and allowing some fuckwit to treat me like this one has would be the end of us
He basically loaded the ammunition, knocked the safety off and pointed the gun for him. Nobody who did that deserves to be in my life. If my H would dump me for objecting to that it wouldn't matter because then we would have a collaborative split.
I agree AF. The description of the BM sat there making jibes at the OP and telling her that her DP 'licked her minge' while he sat there and did nothing - to me that is worse than having a lap dance in the first place. Your DH should always have your back, want to protect you and your feelings.
I couldn't marry a man that would stand back and let someone ride roughshod all over me. Let someone bully me when they knew how upset it would make me. Not exactly showing love and respect is it.
Viv my wife telling me who I should be friends with will mean I will resent her, meaning the end of us.
I was replying, tongue-in-cheek to your post. I used nearly the same language.
I was just going to say that AF.
arsenal I don't disagree with you. I wouldn't ever tell any boyfriend/partner/husband of mine who they could and couldn't be friends with. They are an independent adult who has the right to be friends with and behave in any way they choose to. And if I started dictating to them, then I would expect them to end the relationship.
However, if those friends and behaviours are incompatible with my own principles and beliefs, then I would consider that to be the end of us from my end.
I don't like the idea that this is about women letting or not letting men be men.
I would have ended the relationship over this situation.
Indeed, FG. I don't tell my H who he can/cannot be friends with.
I judge him by his actions like I do everyone else. If he acted like this bloke has, he would no longer be my husband and I wouldn't waste any time debating whether or not he can stay friends with anyone.
(And for the record I stated up thread that a woman in this position shouldn't be dictating who her husband is friends with. It was the tone of Arsenal's shit about men and strippers that I took exception to).
Over my head
They are clearly taking a piss and 'bantering'
Please elaborate my tone.
What charbon said there was insightful Offred. Thats why i linked the Guardian article about the "Peter Pan husband" into the thread. I thought it was relevant.
He can still be mates with him. I just would not view him as a supporter of the marriage/relationship and therefore totally inappropriate in the role of Best Man.
Hitchy makes some good points back there. However, I'll say again, the OP's fiancé doesn't consider himself to have made a mistake. He thinks a lapdancer/stripper at a stag do is "tradition," and she's over-reacting and needs to "get over it."
This total disregard for her feelings is the biggest red flag as far as I can see. Apart from the dodgy company he keeps.
Arsenal you consider the conversation between OP's scummy fiance and his equally scummy mates to be "banter" ? Is that what you meant ?
Arsenal if it was the OP who had had a male stripper and her maid of honor had stood there in front of the bride and groom to be and joked about the bride to be sucking the strippers cock would it still be banter?
Arsenal You said the woman should accept her partner paying for sexual services, but a man should dump a woman who told him to dump a mate who humiliated her and encouraged him to pay for sexual titillation. This seemed, at best, hypocritical to me.
darkesteyes hilarious analogy and so true.
Arsenal would you stand by and let your mate say stuff which was clearly upsetting for your wife because not many blokes I know would.
Good point darkest there is definitely a double standard here...
OP I hope it all works out for you. If I've done the maths correctly you are going to have the same wedding anniversary as my PIL and they have been married for 48 years. Good omen hopefully!
DH and I just had such an interesting conversation about this but unfortunately I'm too tired to type it all out... If this thread is still going in the morning I'll come back and tell you the Wise Words of Sage Mr Hearts. Nite nite all.
Just read through the whole thread.
Horrible, horrible situation to be in.
I would not be marrying this man, i would never be able to feel the same way about him again, and all my respect for him would of vanished in a flash.
As for that dickhead of a best man... Words fail me
Viv don't try to be manipulative by getting the TWO points mixed up.
The stag do is a 'tradition' whether we agree or not. So should be treated differently to DH going to a strip club on a random night.
The second point is it's controlling to say who should or shouldn't be a partner's friend. Most people would agree.
No i wouldn't be bothered if our bridesmaid was talking about the surprise stripper in a limo. One of dw friend plays rugby and I know she'd say anything to wind me up.
Like I said, way forward is to make it clear it will never happen again.
arsenal - I'm struggling to understand why, if I accept that a stag do could be considered a tradition, that stag do must be assumed to contain the purchasing of sexual services of some kind. I know a lot of men and it has been rare - only the most exceptionally objectionable men (my dh's friends who regularly use prostitutes/strippers, are functioning cocaine addicts, sexually abused at public school for example) for it to happen.
Also, why banning friends from the wedding, asking for friends to be dumped etc is controlling but dictating that a partner who clearly wants to see strippers can't isn't controlling?
If one person has a boundary and that thing is something the other wants to do and sees nothing wrong with the issue is that the couple are incompatible with each other surely and I don't think a solution can be found.
People who like lap dancing should have partners who also do or don't mind. Trying to force a compromise on a fundamental incompatibility will result in one partner being harmed and the other restricted, no-one will win.
And why should going to a stripper on a stag do be treated differently at all? The op's p knew how she felt about strippers, he made his choice, he effectively chose that seeing the stripper was more important than the op or his upcoming marriage.
Viv don't try to be manipulative
Wow. Trying to reprimand me and belittle me in so few words. Just... wow.
Rather radically (for arsenal I suspect) I think people who visit strippers/prostitutes/porn could be expected to understand that their partners might be upset/offended by it so even if they haven't helpfully explained their feelings beforehand like the op, in choosing to do any of those things they could expect that the reaction might end their relationship....
If they are so self obsessed and lacking in self-awareness or empathy and understanding for other people in general that they fail to realise that these things are problematic then nevermind, maybe losing the relationship will help them learn to consider other people (the people they consume for sexual pleasure mainly). If they feel entitled to consume other people for pleasure you are better off without them.
arsenal nicely avoiding the questions here.
Once again.
Would you stand by while a mate said tho ha that were clearly upsetting your wife? Even if you thought it was banter would that really come above your wife's feelings?
You say it would be ok for dw friend to laugh about a surprise make stripper but would it still be ok if said friend said dw had sucked him off?
My dh is one if the most reasonable people I know but I know he'd be furious with me and the friend!
I agree with Offred. People should find suitable mates. If a man likes strippers on a stag night, he should find a partner who doesn't mind them. It's ridiculous to make your partner msierable. And if it bothers you, don't get together with a man who thinks they are part of tradition and you should get over it. Most of the unhappiness in marriage is caused by people trying to force their views on each other.
There are enough people to go around without putting up with stuff you really don't like.
led No i wouldn't be bothered if our bridesmaid was talking about the surprise stripper in a limo. One of dw friend plays rugby and I know she'd say anything to wind me up.
Believe me my DW is capable of telling someone to f-off she is not some delicate flower that needs protecting.
The OPs DH will probably never visit a strip club. This whole issue was done as part of a 'tradition'. It's very different to someone actively going to a strip club.
It's not uncommon for a BM to not listen to a bride's request. He's probably laughing at how much the groom is in trouble.
"It's not uncommon for a BM to not listen to a bride's request. He's probably laughing at how much the groom is in trouble."
God, the way some people live...
There is such a huge difference between joking about a stripper and joking about your partner giving oral sex to someone!
I don't think in the ops case that the bm was acting as if it were a joke!
I really don't believe you that if your dw mates was seriously laughing and joking about the FACT that your dw had sucked another guys cock, that you would be falling about with mirth. Unless you have an open relationship which the op did not.
I agree you can't tell anyone who they can be friends with but you can hope that if your partners mates are massive cunts then they may choose not to hang about with them.
I am so glad that the behaviour displayed in some circles is something I have not, not will ever, experience
It sounds like shit
If its CLEARLY a wind up then its a wind up.
Unless you think the OP DH licked the woman's vagina.
Still missing the point.
Ok it was a wind up.
The whole thing made the op feel upset and humiliated.
Someone who doesn't care enough about their partner to step in at that point and stop the wind up, or who doesn't realise that making this joke in the first place is not going to be funny doesn't really love their partner, not really. If your partner is hurt by someone and you love them it normally hurts you too.
I don't agree arsenal.
In fact I don't really give a shit about the stupid set of rules that says you can sexually abuse women and that's fine, just a difference of opinion or a personal choice people are entitled to make but when you call someone an arsehole for doing it then you are in the wrong.
Swearing's the thing on mumsnet anyway... Don't you know...
OFFRED And yes I would defend her and would cut off such friend but in THIS situation DW would know it was a wind up and would laugh it off.
Trying to stop them would just make it worse. Would be surprised if the conversation went for more than 5 mins.
The 'he licked her minge' thing is what would be worst for me. If anyone "joked" about that to me about dh - I would never see them again. Drunkenness is no excuse - these men were worse than the 'law of the stag' secrecy thing - they were blatantly rubbing the op's nose in it. I'm seriously not sure I could get past that.
This op was upset and humiliated. What your p might think/do is irrelevant.
Makes me wonder if what you are trying to say is that a woman who reacts any other way than your p does is unreasonable and should "get over it"... That would put a new spin on your p's reaction for me.
The point is though that the OP did not know it was a joke and her dp already knew she was upset so even if he hadnt licked the strippers vagina the fact is that when his mate started to say these things joke or not he should have told him to stfu!!!! The joke was inappropriate at the very least given that his wife was already upset!
Your wife sounds a little like me in that she can seriously look after herself, in fact if dps mates spoke to me disrespectfully he'd be out if my fucking house on the end of my foot.
However before I did that my dh would have beaten me to it.
Actually yes I do think that the stag may well of stuck his tongue where it shouldn't be as it was an odd thing for the bm to say off the too if his head and would explain the stag not being annoyed with him too!
Quite, Ledkr. I wonder why the bm did make that joke, and whether it was actually a joke. The groom would hardly admit it, would he? The whole thing is just awful.
OP, if you're still reading, I hope you are ok, and everything goes well for you. I can understand why you wouldn't call off your wedding at such short notice, but be very aware that you need to put boundaries in place early on in your marriage. Don't allow him to belittle your feelings again, don't stand for it. Maybe he's truly learned his lesson here, but I worry that having got away with it this time...if there are to be other friends stag nights in the future, will he think it traditional that he sees a stripper or gets a lapdance then?
Thinking about arsenal's offerings to this thread, I don't think I would tell my dh not to have a lapdance. I think it would be - "fine, but don't expect me to be here when you get back." If that's controlling or whatever, then so be it. But I reserve the right not to be in relationship with someone who can use women/the sex industry like that.
He would never want to, as I said way upthread, so for me, at least, it's a moot point.
It's not uncommon for a BM to not listen to a bride's request. He's probably laughing at how much the groom is in trouble
How fucking immature. That is not a marriage Its emulating a parent child relationship. Also a good example of our mysogynistic culture.
What has Arsenal's DW got to do with anything? Weird. And the rugby playing. Weird.
I'm not even sure I'd go through the inconvenience of endi g my marriage tbh.
I would no longer know or respect dh as the person I thought he was so our relationship would just die.
I married a strong intelligent dignified man, if he became a leering mysoginist he would no longer be that person.
In actual fact one mate he was friendly with did try to subtly put me down a lot or make snidey remarks about our wedding or holiday choices.
Dh didn't always see it but then one day he overheard him telling me that I'd stopped dh going on his stag weekend and that he'd really wanted to go (our baby was born with cleft palate and developed pneumonia)
That was it, friend out of life just like that!
I think that is normal
If your DP knew how strongly you felt about this he might have been better off avoiding the lads night out/limo stereotypical stag do as the addition of a stripper could surely have been foreseen ?
Did you remind him of the conversation that took place a year earlier where you said strippers were a deal breaker ? Did you say anything as he left the house presumably suited and booted for his night out ?
Offred you asked about if I was in a similar situation.
My point of this is its ridiculous to say ltb or Uninvite the best man.
Best way is to move forward and make it clear it should never happen again.
He says he didn't think I was serious when we discussed it last year. When he left the house I said be good! The week before I had been worrying about the stag and told him not to do anything that would upset me or that was dangerous. He said that he didn't think I would have been as upset as I was
Ooh, worry... How are you feeling about the wedding? How are you feeling about the marriage?
Excited about the wedding. And hopeful about the marriage. I think in future if there is something I feel really really strongly against then I need to sit DP down and tell him, and make it very clear how I feel. Then it's his choice if he does it anyway, and he knows the consequences. We have lived together for 3 years, but I think we have a way to go before we both fully understand each other...
I've been biting my tongue because what I'd want now is support, not doubt. But. This,
I think in future if there is something I feel really really strongly against then I need to sit DP down and tell him, and make it very clear how I feel
just really worries me. The onus shouldn't be on you to police his behaviour. And how realistic is it to prempt every shitty thing he might do and identify it beforehand. Also, how strongly do you need to make your opinion clear?
I wouldn't say it is ridiculous to say either thing arsenal.
I haven't said either thing, although I'd LTB the op doesn't want to, with that in mind I was urging her to postpone the wedding based on her feelings because I thought that would be best for her considering her feelings and the description of her situation rather than my feelings and what I would do based on my feelings.
I think the crucial point is that if the wife/gf is not upset it isn't a similar situation it is simply telling us how your p would behave/feel.
I don't buy "I didn't think you were serious" what he means is he didn't take you seriously. I agree with viv btw, don't become the moral guardian/parent.
He chose not to take you seriously. Why is that?
I mean it sounds as though you have been way clearer and way more serious than most people in expressing your feelings about it.
Why exactly has he ignored you?
I don't think you are getting the full story.
worrybynature you should be excited. I absolutely loved my wedding day. It flies by so quickly so try and take a mental photos throughout the day to look back on. The very best of luck to you both. I hope the sunshines for you
So even though you did tell him your worries and concerns the week before, he still did not take you seriously?
Sorry but that is a load of crap. Blaming you as well for not being clearer.
And an easy excuse to use every time he does something to upset you.
worry the more you're posting about your relationship, the more concerns I have.
One thing I know for sure is that you need to start NOW on working at clarifying and maintaining your boundaries.
Surely it is him who needs to do the work connie?
Specifically why he ignored your clear expressions of your feelings about the issues?
How he really feels himself about the sex industry.
Why he tried to blame you for not being clear enough when it was that he chose to ignore you.
Why he didn't respond to you being upset and humiliated by his friend (immaterial of what it was about).
I think the explanation will be he has madonna/whore as darkest said.
That he is a misogynist of the cowardly kind who thinks you are unreasonable to feel the way you do and that he therefore "has to" lie to you about how he feels and manipulate you so he still gets to do what he wants:
Offred, of course he needs to do work too. But he's not the one posting so he's not hearing this.
I feel as if he's taking advantage and if this isn't dealt with now, then I can't imagine how the marriage will be 5, 10 years from now.
I find OP's lack of assertiveness with him to be something she can work on.
I don't think being more assertive will make a difference. She's already been more assertive than most people. He chose to ignore her and then dismissed and blamed her for it.
You also can't change someone's personality, if he likes naked women dancing for him then that's that really!
Couldn't agree more with everything Offred said.
Please, OP, I know you are desperate now to just forget and enjoy your wedding but sit back and really think about what Offred has said. Of course he knewit would upset you, you did more than enough to inform him of this beforehand and yet he still did it and is now trying to twist it and blame it on you. That is not the actions ofa man who respects his wife to be, who is truly sorry, and who plans to not do anything like this again in the future.
Seriously, just sit and think it through before brushing it under the carpet and marrying him. We aren't trying to hurt you, we are trying to help you not get hurt even more further down the line.
Only thing I have to add OP, is to not take notice of whoever said that if you do marry him this weekend it's like a promise that everything is put behind you, and not to be brought up again.
Presumably you are focused more on the wedding than anything else right now. You may need to talk about the stag and work things through a lot more after the wedding confetti has settled. Don't let anyone tell you that a ring on your finger means you have to box your feelings off. If he loves you, he will do what it takes to help you get past this.
Ok I'm going to be controversial. I agree that men watching naked women dance is icky and having them do so whilst on their laps is more icky BUT it goes on at a lot of stag do's. It doesn't mean they have been unfaithful. It just means their idiot best man thought it would be funny. Ok, OP had told him she didn't like it (lets face it what woman does) but the idiot best man organised it anyway and the other members of the stag party would have been egging him on. I don't think OP should cancel her wedding over this or even pay it any further thought. I strongly suspect their are many wives that have no idea their husbands enjoyed/endured similar experiences. my dh might be one of them for all I know. I have never asked and I never want to know.
If op's fiancé was in the habit of visiting lap dancing clubs on a regular basis then I think they would have a problem but as a one off indiscretion on his stag do? Not nice but not the end of the world.
As I said earlier, I hope you have an absolutely fantastic wedding day op. The start of your lives together as a married couple. How exciting x
(throws arms over head and runs away to hide )
You also can't change someone's personality, if he likes naked women dancing for him then that's that really
wow LEDKR, you sound like the best man.
I'd get your fiancé to ditch the 'best' man. He knew damn well how spiteful that comment was. He enjoyed your hurt and your fiancé's discomfort. He sounds like the sort of bastard who would enjoy humiliating you both with his speech. Do not give him the opportunity.
Also, did you tell your mum that your fiancé licked this woman's genitals? I'm finding it very difficult to imagine any mother telling her daughter that this is OK.
Yes arsenal of course I do
If a guy likes to exploit women then that's that. You can ask him not to do it but it doesn't take away his Intent or attitude to women.
I'd rather be married to someone with respect and integrity than someone I had to prevent doing stuff forcibly.
Such hard work IMO
It's context isn't it clouds If a guy gets drunk at his work Christmas party and ends up in the stationery cupboard with a naked female colleague writhing over him it would be cheating. Or got drunk at a nightclub, and had a drunk woman all over him in a toilet cubicle.
But women are supposed to be 'a good laugh' about it because it happened deliberately rather than accidentally... And it's not considered cheating with strippers because we dehumanise them. It wasn't a girl at a club, it was just a stripper.
clouds the objectification of women is rather more serious than icky
I do agree now though that the op should enjoy her day now and put this behind her......for now!
Whocansay He told her it didn't happen, but it was an odd thing for the best man to make up. If she was moving her crotch in front of his face for some of the 'few minutes' - it's possible.
It doesn't mean they have been unfaithful
Some of us do define it as being unfaithful.
OP had told him she didn't like it (lets face it what woman does)
What? So women who tolerate it are just accepting something they don't like? Why would they do that? Why should they? Many, many of us don't.
GreenSkittles I hope it didn't happen and he did make it up (I clearly missed that bit!). The poor woman involved was incidental, as just a piece of meat.
I still think that the 'best' man means harm and should be kept away from any position of responsibility at the wedding. I can see him bringing this up in the speech as a 'hilarious' story.
Clouds thats twice youve mentioned "being excited about a wedding day"
I think the OP should be thinking more about the marriage than the wedding day.
A marriage is more than a dress a party a big bunch of flowers and a bloody cake
Vicacia it sounds like Clouds would tolerate it as long as it didnt affect her wedding day
I think thats the reason why some women "dont want to know"
A dangerous attitude.
haha. that's brilliant. I was very very excited about my wedding day. I was, after all, about to commit to the man I love and want to spend the rest of my life with. 12 years and 2 dc on and we are still going strong.
As for the objectification of woman - well I have a different view I'm afraid. To coin the great Johnny Rotten "its their career choice" and if they want to make their money by dancing for men who are drunk and foolish that is totally up to them.
How does that mean it's not objectification?
LEDKR If a guy likes to exploit women then that's that.
Another one!
You do sound like the BM because you are both shit stirrers.
Unless I'm mistaken the issue with the OP wasn't about exploitation, but the stripper issue.
But is the DH exploiting women?
Women going to strippers on hen nights exploiting men too?
Well that's another thread if you think strippers are being exploited and don't know what they are doing.
I didn't say it wasn't objectification. I said I had a different view. More like self-objectification. These woman are using their own bodies to earn money. To wield that power over drunken men (or women if you want to include women that have strippers at their hen parties. Plenty of those too and no, not me). But we are getting way off topic. OP was upset that future dh had a lap dancer. She has managed to put that to one side and enjoy the build up to her wedding day. I sincerely hope she has now stopped reading this thread so she can enjoy the excitment (thats 3 times now for those that are counting )
arsenal haven't you some slut-shaming rugby banter to be had elsewhere ?
you are coming out with one cliche after another on this thread, it is yawnsome and very very predicatable
why are you so bovvered, seriously ?
I think your partner doesn't pipe up about objectification of women because she daren't rock the boat. You never STFU about men's right to disrespect women and women's place to suck it up, do you ?
Clouds, I think that objectification of women and the 'self-objectification" you describe are not the same thing at all, hence why your comments don't address the point.
Calling Ledkr the same as the BM is ridiculous. Ledkr is speaking for the benefit of the op (even if it's not necessarily what the op wants to hear/face). The BM is definitely not.
Puts me in mind of another friends wedding - the groom wanted 'another one bites the dust' playing them out of the venue on their wedding day - because he was settling down with his girlfriend and would no longer be 'one of the lads.' Seriously. The actions of this stag party to remind me of that mentality. The 'wife is a ball and chain' mentality - rather than the novel view that women are human beings - equal to the men.
Well either way its a subject for a whole other thread and getting somewhat adrift of the original post.
running I actually think its the other way round.
To quote Jack Nicolson in The Witches of Eastwick
"Marriage.......Great for the man. Lousy for the woman.
I do wonder if a frank discussion between the op and her dp about buying strippers/the sex industry might help. He has professed disgust at the thought of his young dd ever being like that stripper, and yet was 'curious' about having a lapdance himself. That shows a level of cognitive dissonance which could be challenged - simply pointing out to him that every lapdancer is someone's daughter, and how would he feel if a load of men were jeering over his daughter like that in the future...?
darkesteyes - you're right there and the surveys about 'contentment' and such support that.
But it seems to be some sort of myth that the 'lads' lose one of their number when one settles down - hence the whole stag night tradition I suppose. But only amongst groups of lads who don't consider women equals - how could you genuinely consider women equals if you're prepared to bay and leer over strippers??
Another man's daughter, sister, wife... There's something be said for women being valued as people in their own right.
AF love how you are trying to paint my DW as some put upon woman who 'daren't rock the boat'
Don't you know I think women's place should be in the kitchen
Ha ha arsenal your inability to hold a proper objective discussion about this has made you resort to if ding ridiculous accusations towards me.
Why don't you answer some if the relevant points instead of trying to deviate from the topic?
As for the o jectivicatio. Of women being a separate thread, well that shows how very little you actually understand about the issues we are discussing.
Off you pop eh there's a good boy.
just as much as I love you painting anyone who calls out men who buy sex services as inadequate pricks being humourless prudes