text:
Krsna Answers All of Arjuna's Questions
By Pancha Tattva dasa
I was taken aback to read a recent piece on your website by Mother Abhaya Mudra dasi, the author, who said that Krsna "never really answers the question asked by Arjuna" in verse 54 of the second chapter of Bhagavad-gita:
Arjuna said: "What are the symptoms of one whose consciousness is thus merged in Transcendence? How does he speak, and what is his language? How does he sit, and how does he walk?"
The author says that this is "the one question left unanswered in the epic conversation between Krsna and Arjuna," and explains that "a Vaishnava is never to be judged by his exterior manifestations."
But Krsna does answer Arjuna's question – completely. To suggest otherwise does not do credit to the speaker of Bhagavad-gita, the Supreme Lord Himself. It would have been far better to write that Krsna answers Arjuna's question, but in a way differently than what one might expect if he is thinking only of external symptoms.
It may seem to be a matter of symantics, but the author has clearly said – twice
– that Krsna did not answer Arjuna's question – and that's simply not true. The bona fide spiritual master is competent to answer all questions on the transcendental subject matter. And the original spiritual master, Lord Krsna, is certainly qualified and competent. He would not fail to answer such a serious question from His disciple. To suggest so is misleading, at best.
In "Surrender to Me" by Bhurijana dasa, the excellent supplement to Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita As It Is, the author cites the Bhagavad-gita commentary of Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura to show that Krsna answers each part of Arjuna's question, in detail. Bhurijana explains that "although these questions seem to deal only with such a person's external behavior, Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura reveals each question's internal meaning."
Bhurijana relates that Arjuna's question may be accepted in four parts: 1) what are the transcendentalist's symptoms, 2) how does he speak and what is his language, 3) how does he sit, and 4) how does he walk?
Arjuna's first question regarding the transcendentalist's characteristics is answered immediately by Krsna in verse 55:
"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: O Partha, when a man gives up all varieties of desire for sense gratification, which arise from mental concoction, and when his mind, thus purified, finds satisfaction in the self alone, then he is said to be in pure transcendental consciousness."
Bhurijana Prabhu writes: "The sthita-prajna reveals his position by having no material affection. He is detached from both happiness and misery. Rather, he is fully satisfied by fixing his consciousness on the self."
Bhurijana goes on to cite the internal meaning of Arjuna's next query: How does the transcendentalist speak? "This question means: 'How are his intelligence and words affected by another's affection, anger or neutrality? In other words, how does he respond?'" Krsna answers this question in verses 56 and 57:
"One who is not disturbed in mind even amidst the threefold miseries or elated when there is happiness, and who is free from attachment, fear and anger, is called a sage of steady mind. In the material world, one who is unaffected by whatever good or evil he may obtain, neither praising it nor despising it, is firmly fixed in perfect knowledge."
Arjuna's next question is: How does he sit? According to Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, this means "How does he not engage his senses? What is his mentality when his senses are restrained from their objects?" Lord Krsna answers in verses 58 and 59:
"One who is able to withdraw his senses from sense objects, as the tortoise draws its limbs within the shell, is firmly fixed in perfect consciousness. The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment, though the taste for sense objects remains. But, ceasing such engagements by experiencing a higher taste, he is fixed in consciousness."
Then Bhurijana explains that Arjuna's last question is answered beginning with text 64 and running until almost the end of the second chapter: "How does the transcendentalist walk?" Bhurijana writes, "The purport of this question is: 'How does a man in transcendence engage his senses?'"
Krsna says: "But a person free from all attachment and aversion and able to control his senses through regulative principles of freedom can obtain the complete mercy of the Lord. For one thus satisfied [in Krsna consciousness], the threefold miseries of material existence exist no longer; in such satisfied consciousness, one's intelligence is soon well established… etc."
In conclusion, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Krsna, answers Arjuna's question perfectly, by citing the internal symptoms of the stitha-prajna transcendentalist. I humbly refer the reader to Srimad Bhagavad-gita As It Is, by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and his mature disciple Bhurijana Prabhu's supplemental guide, "As They Surrender to Me," for a deeper understanding. I have quoted only briefly from both texts.
Your servant,
Pancha Tattva dasa
26 Responses to "Krsna Answers All of Arjuna's Questions"
Tattvavit Prabhu,
Please accept my humble obiesances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Regarding Arjuna's questions on the transcendental walking you say,(referring to Krishna), "He would not fail to answer such a serious question from his disciple. To suggest otherwise is misleading at best". However there is no reason to consider Arjuna's question as serious, unless one reads Srila Visvanatha Cakravati Thakura's commentary wherein walking is defined as engaging the senses in general. Visvanatha Cakravati Thakura's commentary is certainly valid but the commentary by Srila Prabhupada is especially meant for us. From what Srila prabhupada gives us it is justifiable to take Arjuna's question at face value and as such Krishna's competence would not be questioned by His failure to answer this question. And Mother Abhay Mudra's statement that Krishna did not answer the question as Arjuna answered it is a valid conclusion based on the contents of Bhagavada Gita As It Is.
As such this conclusion is perfect because it is the direct understanding we get from reading Srila Prabhupada's, Bhagavada Gita As it Is. We do not have to read the commentaries of Previous Archarya's, (which Srila Prabhupada choose to leave out of his purports) to get a complete understanding. The only conclusion is there are two ways to see Arjuna's question, take it as it is- he is asking does a transcendentalists have a specific walk, which is the way we see it from Srila Prabhupada's commentary or see it as having some symbolic meaning as described by previous Acharya's. They are both valid. Srila Prabhupada translation shows the point we most need to understand. To imply that the proper understanding is only available after reading commentaries by past Acharya's is erroneous.
scooty.ram says : Log in to Reply
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 53. Oh, I'll finish this sentence. "Persons in Kṛṣṇa consciousness transcend the limit of śabda-brahma or the range of the Vedas and Upaniṣads." 53: "When your mind is no longer disturbed by the flowery language of the Vedas and when it remains fixed in the trance of self-realization, then you will have attained the divine consciousness (BG 2.53)." 54: "Arjuna said, 'What are the symptoms of one whose consciousness is thus merged in transcendence? How does he speak and what is his language? How does he sit and how does he walk?' " (BG 2.54)
Prabhupāda: This is very important thing. The symptoms, the characteristics, of Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are described there, item by item.
From this it is clear that each question was answered item by item which will include the question about walking(if one intends to take this literally)
However by providing these quotes i do not intend to anyway indicate that one should reject Previous acharya's comments based on Srila Prabhupada's opinion.
Nor do I provoke anyone to look for such supporting statements for establishing one's stand.
An inconsistent and contradictory opinion(If any) between acharyas will make the sampradaya weak.
Dear Sita Ram dasa,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Who is Tattvavit?
Thank you for your kind comments. Nevertheless, Krsna has answered Arjuna's question. If you feel that Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura's commentary is not meant for you, then what can I say? Srila Prabhupada drew from the commentaries of the previous acharyas often as he wrote his Bhaktivedanta purports. I'm sure that he didn't pass over the Thakura's commentary on Arjuna's question just so that devotees could come along later and say, "Aha! Krsna didn't answer Arjuna's question!"
Even without considering the Thakura's commentary, Krsna has responded, in a whole series of statements, to Arjuna's question. It is an answer, or rather, a series of answers. And nowhere in Srila Prabhupada's commentary do we find Prabhupada saying that Krsna did not answer Arjuna. That is your statement and that of the other writer in question. Why should you say such a thing, if Srila Prabhupada did not?
To insist that Krsna has not answered his disciple's question, in what is the most important literature on spiritual fundamentals in our Vaishnava literature, the book which Gaudiya Vaishnavas refer to the world over to answer questions on Krsna consciousness, is an onerous mistake. That is my objection.
Simply Krsna's answer must be understood with a little intelligence: Arjuna asked, and Krsna answered. And if one of Srila Prabhupada's expert, surrendered, intelligent disciples, following in his footsteps and quoting from our trusted acharyas, shows another wonderful aspect of this particular exchange in the second chapter of Bhagavad-gita – about which whole books could be written – then I for one will not be averse to increasing my understanding and sharing it with others. I'm quite certain that Srila Prabhupada is proud of Bhurijana Prabhu's service.
Your servant,
Pancha Tattva dasa
Pancha Tattva Prabu,
First, neither I nor Mother Abhay Mudra say Krishna did not answer Arjuna's question regarding how to identify one who is transcendental. Krishna simply did not say that such a person walks in this or that way. You ask me why should I say such a thing if Srila Prabhupada did not. It is because Srila Prabhupada did not say Arjuna's question was supposed to be taken in some figurative way; that it means something entirely different from what is denoted by the word, walk. Since Krishna never says a transcendentalist can be known by this or that manner of walking it is concluded Krishna did not answer Arjuna's question as it was asked.
If you are going to insist that my understanding of the Gita is invalid, I am open to that, but you must do so by citing Bhagavada Gita As It is. Other wise, implicit in your argument is the assumption that the correct understanding is only available after reading commentaries of previous Acharya's. I will never accept that I am wrong about the Gita when I base a conclusion exclusively on Srila Prabhupada's, Bhagavada Gita As It Is. The biggest mistake we can make is to not understand that Srila Prabhupada's books are the ultimate authority for Lord Caitanya's movement for the next 10,000 years.
Why do you insist that Krishna and the spiritual master have to answer a question that includes a false assumption about spiritual life? Arjuna is playing the role of someone who does not understand transcendence, and based on this he asks how such a person walks. He is implying that a transcendentalists has some particular manner of moving about, by which he can be identified. We know this is not the fact, a brahmana may stroll along with a peaceful demeanor but the Pandava's had gates that resembled a lion stalking its prey. Replying that a transcendentalist cannot be identified by their gate does not explain the real nature of transcendence. Krishna explained the real nature of transcendence and implicit in this is that the gate does not matter. What is the problem?
Abhaya Mudra Dasi says : Log in to Reply
From Abhaya Mudra Dasi
A disciple may ask a question and expect a certain answer from his guru, but a qualified spiritual master may not always satisfy the expectations of his disciples. At the battle of Kurukshetra, Arjuna took the position of a disciple and Shri Krishna was his spiritual master.
Arjuna is most praiseworthy because he choose to ask all his burning questions directly to the Supreme Lord. He did not try to solve his problems by asking materialistic personalities. So whatever his questions were, they were perfect because they were directed at the Supreme Person who is most qualified to answer any question.
Nonetheless, Shri Krishna cannot be compared to ordinary gurus who just like the professors from mundane universities give tanto for tanto answers. That is their concept of education centered upon self promotion which does not keep the welfare of the disciple at the center.
By not answering the question of Arjuna at face value Shri Krishna actually establishes His superior position in the conversation. He can answer or not answer. He is the Supreme controller. He took the question of Arjuna as an opportunity to further direct the conversation. After all, Shri Krishna is standing right there as the best example and answer to the question.
We have to be aware that whoever asks Shri Krishna directly is going to get the best instructions how to approach Him. Shri Krishna is not going to waste His time explaining mundane matters.
At the time of the beginning of the battle of Kurukshetra, Arjuna was distressed. His mind was dwelling on the attachment to his relatives and he automatically transfered this material contamination into his query. From the beginning of second chapter of Bhagavad Gita Shri Krishna was engaging the mind of Arjuna by throwing at him all the basic transcendental topics of Bhagavad Gita. These topics were like a bombardment and sooner or later Arjuna was going to be hit by the arrows of transcendental knowledge in the midst of his despair.
continues ->
Abhaya Mudra Dasi says : Log in to Reply
When Arjuna asked the question in BG (2.54) it was his confirmation that he is trying to catch on with Shri Krishna's transcendental argument. We can practically experience the mixture of the question. The question is aimed at understanding a transcendental matter, the devotee of the Supreme Lord. On the other hand, Arjuna is still affected by his material identification and for that he applies material identifications to the devotee. Thus he places his question before the Lord partially out of distress and partially out of intelligence. For Shri Krishna this was a good sign that his friend, and now student, is staring to pick up on the transcendental topics. The Supreme Lords immediately, and with great enthusiasm, starts directing Arjuna towards topics aimed at reestablishing his true position.
We do not need to wonder that Shr Krishna did not answer the questions of Arjuna the way it was put and expected to be answered. That only proves that Shri Krishna had the best in store for his devotee; just like when Dhruva Maharaja went to the forest to ask for wealth but received the personal darshan of Shri Vishnu. Dhruva Maharaja later said in his prayers addressing the Lord that, " I was asking for glass beads but received the diamond, Your association."
These are the ways of the Supreme Lord.
Kesava Krsna dasa says : Log in to Reply
There is a standard way by which most devotees learn the precepts of the Bhagavad-Gita through our colleges and seminars. We memorise some important verses and understand how Lord Krishna weaved His way through various systems of thought and deed, gradually rising up to full surrender. In addition, Srila Prabhupada's purports help to comprehend what could otherwise be any layman's claim to tainted truth, as the number of false editions of Bhagavad-Gita show.
But whatever the accepted standard, the words of Lord Krishna cannot be subjected to any finality, or blanket communal understanding. The ever-fresh realisations that accrue from reading and studying this sacred dialogue, attest to the truth that the Lord's words have no limit. Indeed, some commentaries of Bhagavad-Gita, written by our previous acaryas, displayed traits of rasika thoughts suitable to their inner fulfilment.
This is to say that whether a child or seasoned devotee expresses some realization on reading or studying Bhagavad-Gita As It Is, it should be encouraged. Otherwise we run the risk of turning our learning into dogma, and limiting the unlimited words of Lord Krishna. If this happens we easily fall prey to intolerance. This is not a broadminded development of Krishna consciousness.
Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa.
Dear Pancatattva Prabhu,
Please accept my humble obeisance. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Thank you for your excellent text as well as your equally good response to the dissenting opinion.
Visvanatha Carkravarti Thakura is one of our purvacaryas and it is perfectly acceptable to access his commentaries or the commentaries of any authorized acarya for clarification or if there is a point of doubt. There is certainly no contradiction between what he and Srila Prabhupada have written.
Your humble servant
Shyamasundara Dasa
krsne matirastu
Shyamasundara Prabhu,
We may need clarification on a point but this is distinct from doubting what is unambiguously being stated by Srila Prabhupada and Krishna. Do we doubt because we do not clearly understand or because we do not accept what is clearly spoken? That is determined by our level of exposure to the philosophy. For instance for a newcomer the question- "Why am I suffering" – is laudable. But if we ask this question as initiated devotees, after being told several times, it means we are unwilling to accept the clear explaination.
Similarly before accepting Srila Prabhupada as Guru or Parama Guru we accept his manner of explaining Bhagavada Gita. Srila Prabhupada makes it abundantly clear from the title, the introduction, and throughout the text that we accept the direct,(or dictionary definition) of the words used by Krishna and Arjuna. Therefore by, " walk ",we accept that Arjuna means, "walk" or a synonym such as gait. As followers of Srila Prabhupada there is no basis for doubting this. It has been described with absolute clarity. We either accept what we have heard from Srila Prabhupada numerous times or we don't. That decision is up to us. But we should be honest about it.
Dear Sita Rama Prabhu,
Thank you for the stimulating and thoughtful discussion. I respond in two parts. This is part one.
You write, "Why do you insist that Krishna and the spiritual master have to answer a question that includes a false assumption about spiritual life?"
Since you insist on referring only to Srila Prabhupada's purports on this matter, then let's just consider the very first sentences of Prabhupada's purport for Bg. verse 2.54, wherein Arjuna submits his question:
"As there are symptoms for each and every man, in terms of his particular situation, similarly one who is Krsna conscious has his particular nature—talking, walking, thinking, feeling, etc. As a rich man has his symptoms by which he is known as a rich man, as a diseased man has his symptoms by which he is known as diseased, or as a learned man has his symptoms, so a man in transcendental consciousness of Krsna has specific symptoms in various dealings." (First sentences from Bg 2.54 purport)
Srila Prabhupada goes on to write that the most important symptom of a Krsna conscious man is his speech.
Here Srila Prabhupada clearly refers to a Krsna conscious person having a particular nature in terms of "talking, walking, thinking, feeling, etc.," which is exactly what Arjuna was asking about. (Oh, that silly, bewildered Arjuna!) If you want to continue splitting symantic hairs, you could make an argument about "sitting," but since Srila Prabhupada specifies walking, I'm hoping you'll recognize the obvious: Srila Prabhupada wrote that a transcendentalist has a particular nature of walking – in other words, all of his activities, external and internal, are meaningful – not meaningless.
And please note Srila Prabhupada's mention of "specific symptoms in various dealings." In this regard, the commentary of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura cited by His Grace Bhurijana Prabhu is perfectly, ecstatically complimentary to Srila Prabhupada's commentary.
Srila Prabhupada has directly contradicted you in the first two sentences of his Bhaktivedanta purport for Bg. 2.54. So, where is the "false assumption about spiritual life?"
Dear Sita-Rama Prabhu,
Here's part two.
My position still stands: Arjuna asked a pertinent question, and Krsna answered it. Neither Krsna nor Srila Prabhupada (nor Srila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura) regard Arjuna's question as irrelevant, inappropriate or off-subject. I continue to insist that it is a mistaken departure from the spirit of the Bhagavad-gita to treat Arjuna's question in this way, or to suggest that Krsna does not answer, or has no interest in answering.
As Srila Prabhupada says in "Easy Journey to Other Planets:"
"Similarly, the Bhagavad-gita was spoken by the Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, to Vivasvan, the presiding deity of the sun, and when the aural chain of disciplic succession was broken, Lord Krsna repeated the Bhagavad-gita to Arjuna on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra. At that time, Arjuna took the role of disciple and student in order to receive transcendental knowledge from Sri Krsna. In order to drive out all misgivings which the gross materialists of the world may have, Arjuna asked all relevant questions, and the answers were given by Krsna so that any layman can understand them. Only those who are captivated by the glamour of the material world cannot accept the authority of Lord Sri Krsna."
Please note: "Arjuna asked all relevant questions, and the answers were given by Krsna so that any layman can understand them." Perfect questions, perfect answers.
Nowhere in Srila Prabhupada's writings or recorded lectures does he say that Krsna did not answer Arjuna's question. Why would you insist otherwise? You are demanding acceptance of Srila Prabhupada's purports as the exclusive all-in-all, aren't you? Where does Srila Prabhupada say that Arjuna's question is irrelevant? Where does he say that Krsna does not answer it? This is the bottom line: If you cannot point out such a statement by Srila Prabhupada then you have no authority to state it yourself.
Pancha Tattva Prabhu,
Please accept mu humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I believe I have given good reason explaining why I feel it is extremely important to accept the direct dictionary definitions of Vedic statements, we all know Srila Prabhupada stressed this.
If you accept the direct meaning of terms and insist Krishna gives a direct answer, then you must directly answer, How does a devotee walk?, using the direct meaning of walk.That is not possible. Something has to give. You feel the direct meaning should be given up. I feel the statement that it was directly answered must be given up. I have given my reason why the direct meaning can't be given up. But you have not answered what is wrong with my statement. You have stated it is wrong to say Arjuna's question was irrelevant and Krishna did not answer it. I agree with you and do not presume to have the authority to say that. You have not said what is wrong with my actual statement- Krishna explained to Arjuna's full satisfaction how to recognize a transcendentalist but did not say s/he had a certain walk. A devotee walks for Krishna that is the essence of Krishna's answer.
That Krishna gave indirect answers to some of Arjuna's questions was explicitly stated by Srila Prbhupada in chapter 1 of "Message of Godhead", regarding the first statements by Krishna to Arjuna- that the living entity, unlike physical substances,cannot be burnt,cut,dried up,etc we read "Thus to illustrate that the living entity,or spirit soul.is entirely metaphysical, the above explanation is given as INDIRECT PROOF BY NEGATION
of material attributes.
But I will not press you for an unarguable answer. I think there is a higher point- not offending the sentiments of devotees. Therefore; from now on I will TRY to be careful to explain any vital fact regarding this concept without explicitly saying Krishna did not directly answer. If something can be stated in such a way as to minimize the chance of disturbing devotees sensibilities regarding the Supreme Lord than that should be done. I feel obliged to do this in reciprocation for your sensitivity to my compulsion to use Srila Prabhupada's purports as the last word when debating issues.
Sita Rama das
Dear Sita-Rama Prabhu,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
(I answer in two parts. Here is part one.)
Thank you for your gracious reply. I would not have pursued the matter further, but for your question to me regarding Arjuna's alleged "false assumption about spiritual life." My contention, as supported by Srila Prabhupada's purport, was that Arjuna's question did not contain a false assumption. I think we have established this much. The fact that Lord Krsna goes directly to describing the transcendentalist's consciousness and dealings does not invalidate Arjuna's question. Nor does it mean that it's not answered.
The false assumption about spiritual life is made by persons who think that Arjuna is wondering if a transcendentalist walks with baby steps or is pigeon-toed. The false assumption is made by persons who think that Arjuna questions whether he sits in a straight-back chair or in a recliner, or whether he "talks in a deep voice" or a whisper. Now, those are false assumptions! Let's at least allow Arjuna credit for a little more intelligence than that. He's not an idiot. He is an eternal associate of the Lord, and he was a contemporary of Srila Vyasadeva and many other great transcendentalists. The fact that we cannot grasp Arjuna's poetic use of language (this is Sanskrit poetry) which he uses to ask about 'specific symptoms in various dealings' [Prabhupada's purport] does not mean that Krishna and our acharyas – past and present – don't understand him. They understand him very well.
We are the ones who sometimes don't understand – although we may insist on pretending to, at the risk of intellectual dishonesty. Our misunderstanding is cleared by submissively hearing from Srila Prabhupada and the previous acharyas. If they concluded that Arjuna asked a dumb question, they would certainly have told us, and then we would have been obliged to accept this and preach it all over the world. But's that's not what they say. Quite the opposite. And, since it is the opposite (see Srila Prabhupada's purports, and those of Srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakura, if you dare), by not accepting, we run the risk of misleading people with our unsupported, so-called "insights" into the Bhagavad-gita.
Dear Sita-Rama Prabhu,
Here is part two.
In regard to whether or not Krsna answers Arjuna's question, you may recall that, in my original post, I wrote this:
"The author (Abhaya Mudra dasi – ed.) writes that Krsna "never really answers the question asked by Arjuna", and, further, this is "the one question left unanswered in the epic conversation between Krsna and Arjuna."
I then wrote:
"It would have been far better to write that Krsna answers Arjuna's question, but in a way differently than what one might expect if he is thinking only of external symptoms."
I hope we can agree that this is a fair approach. Arjuna is asking important, pertinent questions and Krsna is answering his questions. Not that Arjuna has asked an impertinent, stupid question and Krsna chose not to answer it.
Your servant,
Pancha Tattva dasa
Re: text #9
Dear Sita Rama Prabhu,
Please accept my best wishes. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada's purports are perfect but not complete. Why do I say that? Read on to find out. They cannot be complete because the subject is not finite matter but the ever expanding transcendence. Thus no commentary can ever be complete. The Gita is ever fresh and when it is read again it is as if we never read it before and our realizations are also expanding.
Let us also consider the following: Mahabharata on this world is 100,000 slokas long, in Pitri loka it is 1,400,000 slokas, in Gandhavaloka it is 1,500,000 long and in Devaloka it is 3,000,000 long. Similar is the case with the Bhagavatam and other literature including the Vedas. We have only a fragment of the Vedas considering that previously there were over 1000 shakhas of the Rig Veda now there a less than a handful and they are quickly dying out. And, where are the other 99 chapters of the Brahma Samhita?
As for commentary on the sastras Lord Caitanya gave 64 explanations of the Atmarama verse and He could have continued. Our paramguru, Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saravati Thakura spoke at length every day for a month just explaining the first verse of the Srimad Bhagavatam and said the same could be done for each verse. In fact a one-month discussion of each verse was not a limit but just a start for him.
Madhvacarya in his commentary on the Mahabharata has pointed out that each and every word can be understood on ten (10) different levels. And that each word in the Vedas on three (3) different levels. That means the room for commentary is infinite. And, Sripad Ramanuja Acarya's Sri Bhasya commentary on just the first sutra of the Vedanta Sutra is 192 pages long.
What to speak of these great souls Lord Anantadeva with His unlimited mouths has been describing the glories of the Lord for eternity and not yet reached a conclusion. And, what to speak of Lord Anantadeva, Lord Krsna Himself cannot know the extent of His glories and qualities because they are ever expanding.
Considering this we are not surprised that no matter how perfect a commentary may be it is not complete because more can always be said.
Part 2
Regarding my level of exposure to the philosophy. Well I don't know about what you were exposed to, but as a bhakta I was taught that our system rested on the bedrock of GSS, that is, Guru, Sadhu and Sastra. By Sadhu is meant our purvacaryas like Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura and other recognized Acaryas such as Ramanuja, Madhvacarya, Lokapillai Acarya, Vedanta Desika, etc. But it seems that in order to win an argument you want to change GSS to just GS by eliminating Sadhus and only keeping Guru and Sastra.
If you do a search for Visvanatha Cakravarti in the Veda Base you will get over 1000 hits indicating that Srila Prabhupada referred to and respected him as an authentic Sadhu whose opinion he valued. I also strongly resent your innuendo that if Pancatattva Prabhu or Bhurijana Prabhu or myself refers to the works of Visvanatha Cakravarti or any other recognized Sadhu then we are guilty of lack of faith in Srila Prabhupada. To be blunt I find it insulting and offensive, especially coming from someone who is not even a disciple of Srila Prabhupada.
Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada
Shyamasundara Dasa
krsne matirastu
Dear Shyamasundara and Sita-Rama Prabhus,
I reply in two parts. Here is part one.
I thank you both for the engaging and thought-provoking debate concerning the dialogue between Krsna and Arjuna that constitutes the crown jewel of the Mahabharata, the Gitopanisad, or Bhagavad-gita. I especially applaud Shyamasundara's last response, which emphasizes the expansive nature of commentary on Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam. I also appreciate his points regarding guru, sadhu and sastra.
At the same time, as a grand-disciple, I understand and empathize with Sita-Rama Prabhu's sentiments for Srila Prabhupada's Bhaktivedanta purports. I acknowledge that, even without approaching the commentaries of other Vaishnava acharyas, everything necessary for perfection of one's spiritual life is present in Srila Prabhupada's books. It is important to understand, however, that Srila Prabhupada amplified upon the previous acharyas' commentaries throughout his writings. He did not disregard them or consider them incorrect, antiquated or inexplicable.
An article appearing in a 2002 issue of Back to Godhead magazine, #36-04, illustrates this adherence very nicely. In "Serving the Words of His Predecessors," His Grace Gopiparanadhana, senior BBT editor, explores Srila Prabhupada's commentary on a single verse from Srimad Bhagavatam – Fourth Canto, Chapter 28, verse 51. A careful reading of this article gives a glimpse into the spiritual fidelity of Srila Prabhupada's commentary with those of the previous acharyas. This article can be found in the Vedabase, if you are interested.
Dear Shyamasundara and Sita-Rama Prabhus,
Here is part two.
Having said that, it is not misguided to study the works of the previous acharyas – unless it is done without full experience and mature understanding of Srila Prabhupada's books. As a nod to Sita-Rama Prabhu, I have sometimes seen devotees rush with great enthusiasm to the books of the Goswamis and other confidential texts while not having full knowledge of Srila Prabhupada's books and the other spiritual assets required.
But I do not believe this applies in the case of "Surrender Unto Me," by His Grace Bhurijana Prabhu. His book is offered as a supplement (not a subsititute) to Bhagavad-gita As It Is and is entirely loyal to Srila Prabhupada's purports, while drawing on the commentaries of Srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakura and Srila Baladeva Vidyabushana to further elucidate upon the text. Any apparent differences in meaning or interpretation are, in Bhurijana's own words, "relevant to particular contexts, with differing emphases, each meant to carry the reader to the same point: "Surrender unto Me.""
And I conclude, with reference to Srila Prabhupada and the previous acharyas, and without equivocation, that Arjuna's question in the 54th verse of the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gita was relevant, and that Lord Sri Krsna answered his question.
Shamasundara Prabhu,
Please forgive my offensive innuendo. I will try to speak my point directly. I am not saying that senior devotees lack faith in Srila Prabhupada simply because they refer to statements of previous Acharya's, which are translated by Srila Prabhupada's disciples, and not found in Srila Prabhupada's books. But these references must be seen in the proper preceptive.
Although I am not even a disciple of Srila Prabhupada I am a follower. As such I accept him as the ultimate authority. This leads to some conclusions:
1. The statements of previous Acharya's which are translated and applied by Srila Prabhupada are given more weight than statements of previous Acharya's which are translated and applied by those who are NOT the the Founder Acharya. Therfore: However intimate a disciple of Srila Prabhupada may be their translation of previous Acharya's,( that Srila Prbahupada himself did not translate and apply),are not on the same level as translation of an Acharya by THE ACHARYA, and cannot change the meaning of Srila Prbahupada's books.
2.Srila Prabhupada stated many times that the meaning of his purports are the direct meaning based on dictionary definitions. Therefore: I reject the argument that I am wrong about the Bhagavada Gita because someone, not on the level of the Founder Acharya, claims a previous Acharya tells us to see things in a figurative way. That goes against a foundational principal of Srila Prabhupada's teachings- we accept the direct the meanings.
3.As a member of ISKCON I have every right, and am obligated, to assert that Srila Prabhupada's books are the ultimate authority within ISKCON. An advanced disciple of Srila Prabhupada should be pleased that I am also accepting Srila Prabupada as the ultimate authority.
I have deference for you as a personal disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Frankly that is all I know about you and Burijana prabhu, I do not know anything about either of you in terms of level of experience, or your service within ISKCON. But I am simply requesting that if you want to correct my understanding please do it with reference to Srila Prabhupada books. I see no reason why you should find this request offensive.
I just wanted to clarify that Srila Prabhupada was perfectly capable of giving even more elaborate and voluminous commentaries. But, no matter how long or detailed he commentaries were the subject matter of Krsna consciousness is such that more can always be said.
Sita Rama 108 says : Log in to Reply
Please post this more respectful response to comment 16 by Sita Rama das I changed my log in due to password forgetting.
Shyamasudara Prabhu,
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I apologize for my offensive innuendo. I simply have a different perspective than you do. My intent is to express it, not to offend my God Uncles. I do not question your, or any devotees, faith because you quote statements of previous Acharya's, which are not given in Srila Prabhupada's books. However I feel these statements must to be seen in the proper perspective. I feel a quote translated and applied by a disciple does not have the same weight as quotes of previous Acharya's given by THE FOUNDER ACHARYA HIMSELF. They cannot be used to change important aspects of Srila Prabhupada's teachings.
I become doubtful when a person uses a commentary translated by a disciple as grounds for correcting my understanding of Srila Prabhupada's books. In this case my doubt was especially great because a devotee was claiming a previous Acharya instructs us to see statements of the Bhagavada Gita in a figurative way. This goes against my understanding of Srila Prabhupada's teaching- that I must accept the direct meaning of statements based on the dictionary definition.
I have deference for you as a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, and I am quite willing to concede that I am wrong about the issue of transcendental walking. I simply request that your correction be based on Srila Prabhupada's books. I assume a direct disciple will be pleased that I accept Srila Prabhupada books as the ultimate authority although I am not even a disciple.
Yes my understanding of Guru, Sastra, and Sadhu,(GSS), is quite different from yours. I do not presume to have the authority to try to change your understanding, I simply request you to honor mine. I accept Sastra as the totality or Srila Prabhupada's books. Sadhu means a group of authoritative saintly devotees- this is the GBC. There are several levels of Guru but in all cases s/he is someone who is teaching within the guidelines of Sastra and Sadhu as defined above. Please understand that I see it as my sacred duty to Srila Prabhupada to accept his books as the ultimate authority. You may have a different perspective but it seems you could also respect mine.
Your servant,
Sita Rama das
Panca Tattva Prabhu wrote:
"Having said that, it is not misguided to study the works of the previous acharyas – unless it is done without full experience and mature understanding of Srila Prabhupada's books. As a nod to Sita-Rama Prabhu, I have sometimes seen devotees rush with great enthusiasm to the books of the Goswamis and other confidential texts while not having full knowledge of Srila Prabhupada's books and the other spiritual assets required."
This is a very important point that I fully agree with. I did not read any other books (except for astrology books, which was my service) until after I had read all of Srila Prabhupada's books twice. Why? Because then I had a yardstick by which I could measure the worth of any subject. Was it consistent or inconsistent with Srila Prabhupada's teachings? Did it supplement and compliment his teachings or did it contradict and undermine them?
We have experience of some pseudo-intellectuals who try to independently understand the teachings of Bhaktivinode and in so doing come to conclusions contrary to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and Srila Prabhupada. I posted an article by Suhotra Svami attacking these pseudo-intellectuals to my Vedic Astrology forum on PAMHO it was then reposted onto the net and can be found here.
Reverting to the original article, Panca Tattva Prabhu's (via Bhurijana Prabhu) quotations from Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura do not contradict or undermine the teaching of Srila Prabhupada but rather compliment and supplement them. To call into question Visvanath Cakravarti's comments is ill advised.
Part 2.
Now (in #21) Sita Rama Prabhu has redefined Sadhu to mean only a member of the GBC, and excluded Visvanatha Chakravarti from such a position even though he is one of our Purva acaryas coming in the Guru Parampara. So now our own purva acarya (#27 in the disciplic succession) is not even considered a sadhu who can be quoted. How odd. It is not only odd but falls in the category of sadhu-ninda — 1st offense against the Holy Name. If his statements are not acceptable then our guru parampara is broken bringing into question the legitimacy of everyone after Visvanatha Cakravarti including Srila Prabhupada.
Sita Rama Prabhu has also redefined "Sastra" to mean only Srila Prabhupada's books. Do you mean to say that the Vedas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas, Upanishads, Vedanta Sutra, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Puranas, Pancaratrika Agamas, writings of Madhva Acarya, Ramanuja, the Six Gosvami's, Bhaktivinode, Bhaktisiddhanta, etc. are not Sastras? This falls into the category of Sastra ninda –4th offense against the Holy Name. Srila Prabhupada himself wanted to translate and write commentaries on a number of books including Padma Purana, Visnu Purana, Vedanta Sutra etc, but could not because of his age. He also, in several places in his writing, referred readers to consult other sastras for more information on the subject, thus Srila Prabhupada himself contradicts your statement.
Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada
Shyamasundara Dasa
krsne matirastu
Sita Rama 108 says : Log in to Reply
You say it is important not to jump into other books until Srila Prabhupada's books are understood. You did not read other books until after reading all of Srila Prabhupada's twice, so you could use these as a yardstick for the truth.
Simply by reading the introduction to one of the primary books- Bhagavada GitaAs It Is, one learns that we accept direct dictionary definitions of words. That is a big part of the yardstick that should be applied.I am just trying to discourage people from bending the yardstick of Srila Prabhupada's books. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with quotes from past Acharya's but there is a possibility of them being misunderstood and improperly applied. It is even possible for people to misunderstand and incorrectly apply Srila Prabhupada's own writings. In any case it is not offensive to elicit a discussion on these topics.
In Gita 2.54 Arjuna asks:
"What are the symptoms of one whose consciousness is thus merged in Transcendence? How does he speak, and what is his language? How does he sit, and how does he walk?"
The last three questions pertaining to speech, sitting and walking and their answers seem to be puzzling some people. They say the answer should be according to the dictionary meaning. That language should be related to some type of literary usage– does the devotee use slang, does he enunciate properly, is his natural way of speaking in prose or meter, etc? Does he sit in chair or on the ground, etc? And does he walk slowly, quickly, with a limp, with regal gait, like an elephant or lion, does he wear shoes, if so what kind of shoes, etc? This to some would be dictionary meanings. Some have suggested that asking this type of question is meaningless indicating that Arjuna is asking stupid questions. Abhaya Mudra dd even stated that Krsna never answered the questions at all.
They object that when Visvanatha Cakravarti comments he explains by using Krsna's own words using subsequent verses relating to sense control. How does he control his speaking? And how does he control his moving (walking) and not moving (sitting)? In general how does he control his senses in different situations. The critics think that stress on sense control is not according to the direct dictionary meaning. What do speaking and moving and not moving have to do with the senses? To find out read on.
In the West we are conditioned to only accept five senses: eyes, nose, ears, tongue, and skin. But in Lord Krsna's Vedic civilization there are ten senses. The previous five mentioned senses: eyes, nose, ears, tongue, and skin—are the jnanindriyas—knowledge acquiring senses. The other five senses are called the karmendriyas — working senses. They are the active organ for speaking, the active organs for working, and those for traveling, generating and evacuating. This is explained in the Sankya yoga system and many other places in Srila Prabhupada's books.
"The senses for acquiring knowledge and the organs for action number ten, namely the auditory sense, the sense of taste, the tactile sense, the sense of sight, the sense of smell, the active organ for speaking, the active organs for working, and those for traveling, generating and evacuating." SB 2.26.13
part 2
The need for a transcendentalist to control his working senses is vital, failure to do so entraps him in material bondage.
"Impelled by deep-rooted material desires, the embodied living entity engages his active sense organs (karmendriyas) in fruitive activities. He then experiences the results of his material actions by wandering throughout this world in so-called happiness and distress." SB 11.3.6
Thus according to the Vedic definition how a person speaks, moves or does not move is determined by his karmedriyas so it makes complete sense, from a Vedic perspective, to discuss the subject in terms of sense control as Lord Krsna did and which Visvanatha Cakravarti elucidates in his commentary.
Shyamasundara Dasa
krsne matirastu
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One of my favorite foods is the Hashbrown casserole that you can get from Cracker Barrel. After eating this several years ago, I decided to do my best to find a recipe that tastes as good as theirs. I found it and it is delicious!
This yummy potato dish will be gracing my table this Thanksgiving so I thought I would share the recipe with you!
- Ingredients
- 1 (2 pound) package frozen hash brown potatoes, thawed
- ½ cup butter, softened
- 1 teaspoon salt
- ½ teaspoon ground black pepper
- ½ cup chopped onion
- 1 (10.75 ounce) can condensed cream of chicken soup
- 2 cups shredded Cheddar cheese
- Preheat oven to 350 degrees. Spray one 9x13 inch pan with non-stick cooking spray.
- In a large bowl, combine the potatoes, butter, salt, pepper, onions, soup and cheese. Gently mix and pour into prepared pan or dish. Bake uncovered for 35 minutes. Enjoy!
12 Responses to Hashbrown Casserole
This is the recipe I use and it is ALWAYS a hit!
OHHHH I love that too! Thanks for sharing the recipe!
You can bet this will be on our Thanksgiving table, too. Sounds out of this world. Thanks…
xo bj
Oh my word. How yummy does that look? I wonder how well this would cook in the crockpot? Now I'm hungry.
I am so making this my kids thank you,too.
I needed some more ideas for TG, and now, I think I have found one with potato, yummy.
I love hasbrowns but I've never seen hashbrown casserole (must be an American thing?). Recipe sounds interesting, thanks for sharing it
WOW! What a great alternative to mashed potatoes. This looks wonderful! I'm so excited to be cooking my very first Thanksgiving dinner this year. YUM!
Hope you'll stop by my blog and enter the CSN Giveaway I'm hosting this week.
I love the Cracker Barrel – everything just tastes homemade – even though I know it isn't. The hashbrown casserole is one of my favorite sides – I love that you made your own version. Delicious!
Thanks for sharing this with us at the Hearth and Soul Hop!
This was my oldest son's request for Thanksgiving dinner. We call it Company Potatoes. Yum! (But so bad for you!) lol
That looks so yummy!
Please do come by and visit me! Or, I've got my Organized Mess on Facebook now, will you "like" me?
This looks fab!
I am going to add it to my Copycat Club round-up (posted Dec 7, monthly).

subset: commoncrawl


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Meatballs Done Right: 5 Diet-Friendly Recipes
Meatballs Done Right: 5 Diet-Friendly Recipes
Fatty, calorie-laden meatballs probably aren't your go-to selection at the local Olive Garden, especially when they're paired with spaghetti and sugary marinara sauce. However, when prepared healthfully, meatballs make a great addition to a healthy diet. They're full of protein and can be paired with any number of vegetables and complex carbs to make a complete meal.
Not sure how to go about turning grandma's meatball casserole into something you can eat and enjoy? Here are five low-cal, high-protein meatball recipes to get you started.
Once you've tried them, add your own unique flavors to the recipes. Let us know how they turn out in the comments below!
1 Italian Chicken Meatballs
Bring some delicious Italian flavor into your clean diet with these meatballs. The oregano and basil provide extra flair and the ground chicken will definitely help you make and maintain those lean gains. If you want a complete meal, serve with some steamed vegetables.
- 2.5 pounds ground chicken breast
- 3 egg whites
- 1 cup oats (dry)
- 1 medium green bell pepper, finely chopped
- 1 medium red bell pepper, finely chopped
- 1 purple onion
- 1 tbsp. minced garlic
- 1 tbsp. onion flakes
- 1 tbsp. dried basil
- 1 tbsp. oregano
- Salt and pepper, to taste
- Preheat oven to 375 degrees F.
- Using your hands, combine all ingredients together in a large bowl.
- Form about 12 meatballs from the chicken mixture.
- Spray a muffin tin with non-stick spray.
- Place a meatball in each muffin cup.
- Bake for about 35 minutes, or until golden brown.
Italian Chicken Meatballs PDF (45.3 KB)
2 Spicy Turkey Meatballs
If you like it spicy, this recipe is right up your alley. Chili peppers, jalapenos, and salsa turn ground turkey into a zesty meal. Throw the meatballs in some tomato sauce, or plate them with vegetables and a complex carb. They're also perfect to pack as a lunch.
- 1.5 pounds ground turkey
- 1 large egg
- 2 large egg whites
- 3/4 cup oats
- 2 tbsp. minced jalapeño pepper
- 1/2 tsp. chili pepper
- 1/4 cup salsa
- 1/2 finely diced green bell pepper
- 1/2 finely diced red bell pepper
- Preheat oven to 450 degrees F.
- Using your hands, combine all ingredients together in a large bowl.
- Form mixture into medium-sized meatballs.
- Set meatballs in a baking dish.
- Place dish in oven and cook for 12-15 minutes, or until golden brown.
- Top with added salsa.
Spicy Turkey Meatballs PDF (46.8 KB)
3 Cheesy Chicken Meatballs
Cheese doesn't make the cut in everybody's macros, but if it fits in yours, you'll love this recipe. The meatballs are creamy, tasty and full of muscle-building protein. If you're not into mozzarella or Parmesan, feel free to use low-fat cheddar cheese.
- 1.5 pounds ground chicken breast
- 1/2 cup low-fat mozzarella cheese
- 1/2 cup low-fat Parmesan cheese
- 1 tbsp. oregano
- 3 egg whites
- 1 cup oats
- 1/2 cup finely diced onion
- Preheat oven to 450 degrees F.
- Using your hands, combine all ingredients.
- Roll chicken mixture into bite-sized meatballs.
- Place meatballs on a greased baking sheet.
- Bake for 8-10 minutes or until golden brown.
Cheesy Chicken Meatballs PDF (41.0 KB)
4 Salmon Meatball Wrap
If you need a power-packed meal to get you through a busy afternoon or evening, here's your recipe. These salmon meatball wraps are full of fats, protein, and complex carbohydrates. If you have specific flavors in mind, add your own spices—it's easy to make this recipe your own!
- 1 can salmon, skin and bones removed
- 1 finely diced onion
- 2 egg whites
- 1/2 cup oats
- 1/2 clove minced garlic
- 3 whole wheat pitas
- 2 cups spinach leaves
- 1 tbsp. olive oil
- Combine salmon, onion, egg whites, oats, and minced garlic.
- Form into meatballs and set on a plate.
- In a skillet over medium heat, heat olive oil.
- Place salmon meatballs in skillet and cook 4-5 minutes, or until browned.
- Remove from skillet and place in pitas along with spinach leaves.
Salmon Meatball Wrap PDF (51.4 KB)
5 Caesar Chicken Meatballs
This creamy Caesar chicken meatball recipe is just plain yummy. Even your kids will like it! With almost 20 grams of protein per meatball, you can enjoy the taste without having to feel guilty about it.
- 1.5 pounds ground chicken
- 3 egg whites
- 1 cup oats
- 2 tbsp low-fat Caesar salad dressing
- 1/2 minced clove garlic
- 4 tbsp low-fat Parmesan cheese
- Preheat oven 425 degrees F.
- Combine all ingredients together in a large bowl.
- Roll chicken mixture into about 20 meatballs.
- Place each meatball in a muffin cup and bake for 25-28 minutes, or until golden brown.
- Once out of the oven, remove from muffin tin.
- Before serving, squeeze lemon juice over top.
Caesar Chicken Meatballs PDF (39.2 KB))
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Great idea for an article Shannon! Holy Meatballs! :)
I'd like to try bison, buffalo or venison. All red meat, but extremely lean.
Mmmm, sounds good. I love meatballs, but had given them up. I think I may need to try some of these. :)
Great collection of recipes. Have been a fan of turkey meatballs because they are so easy and transport so well. Happy to have some variety now. Thanks for sharing these. Always a fan of your articles.
Before you actually purchase ground chicken or ground turkey at your local supermarket, READ THE NUTRITION FACTS LABEL ! You may figure out what they do with all of those turkey or chicken skins that they removed from those boneless/skinless chicken and turkey breasts that we all love so well.
I just made some with lean beef(the first recipe) came out just awesome! Thank you!
I'm making a batch of these tonight, Thanks!
I made the spicy turkey meatballs tonight. They are sooo soo good I'm glad I made a double batch so I can eat on them all week! Thanks for the recipe!
Loved the Italian Chicken Meatballs. I made a fat free Neapolitan sauce with Wholewheat Spaghetti topped with the said meatballs. Great meal!
Definitely going to try some of these!!! I'm always eating my meatballs whether it's turkey/chicken/beef. Such a good food for a student!
Made the turkey ones added some garam masala, italian herbs, fresh garlic and fennel seeds to one batch to the over i added Fajita spice, italian herbs, fresh garlic i did leave the jalapeno's out as i forgot to buy them but to be honest there was so many flavours going on you don't need them. they are really tasty
I tried the Italian Chicken meatballs, only as a meatloaf. Bake it in a loaf pan at 350 degrees for an hour. It was great.
- 1
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Pembroke Pines, Fla., is the second most populated city in Broward County. The city is the 157th most-populated in the United States, and has 157,600 residents. Consider Pembroke Pines apartments for rent if you're looking to live in a community filled with recreational activities, cultural attractions, entertainment and more. While people are drawn to the Sunshine State for a variety of reasons, it's easy for many newcomers to understand the appeal of Pembroke Pines. This city earned numerous accolades for its environment, including an "All-America City" honor from the National Civic League in 2004. BusinessWeek also ranked it the No. 1 Florida city in which to raise kids in 2010.
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Sarah Palin on Fox News Sunday; Updated: Web Exclusive Video and Pictures Added
Governor Palin's interview with Chris Wallace on Fox News Sunday:
If you need another interview to follow-up this one, a transcript of an interview that Judd Berger of FoxNews.com conducted with Governor Palin at the Tea Party Convention in Nashville can be found here.
Update by Doug: Web exclusive video from Governor Palin's interview with Chris Wallace can be found here and here. To view fifteen "behind the scenes" pictures from the interview go here.


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MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_01CE87BF.28B9C690" This document is a Single File Web Page, also known as a Web Archive file. If you are seeing this message, your browser or editor doesn't support Web Archive files. Please download a browser that supports Web Archive, such as Windows® Internet Explorer®. ------=_NextPart_01CE87BF.28B9C690 Content-Location: file:///C:/6548DE75/SEL20130625.htm Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
June 25, 2013
APPROVED – July 9, 2013<= /p>
CALL TO ORDER – approximately 6:30pm
Mr. Edmund Gleason, Mr. William McDevitt, Mr. Hal Lynde, Mr. Doug Viger, Mr. Robert Haverty, Town Administrator Tom Gaydos
June 11, 2013
(5-0-0) The motion carried. <=
<= /o:p>
-----------------------------------= -----------------------
June 11, 2013 (non-public minutes) – Mr. Gleason indicated t= hat the Board members had reviewed the minutes and they were approved.
OPEN FORUM:= u>
Mr. Gerard Jutras, 35 Willow Street and Ms. Karen LaRosa (Mr. Jutras' daughter) also residing at the same address came forward to address concern= s on Willow Street. Mr. Jutras req= uested that the Town consider installing a guard rail in front of his house. He stated there had been over fift= een accidents in the last eight years with two occurring in one day in March, 2013. He replaced fourteen sh= rubs last year and would need to replace fourteen this year as well. His driveway was located on a curv= e and he feared an accident would occur injuring him or his family. The speed limit on Willow Street is 30mph, however most vehicles travel over 40mph. Mr. Jutras believed the street mar= kings were outdated and ineffective.
Mr. Gaydos said the issue could be referred to the Highway Safety Committee and suggested moving expeditiously to get an answer. Mr. Jutras told the Board he had s= poken to the Police Department. He = said they were supposed to put a radar patrol up, but he had not seen one.
Ms. LaRosa said they were open to suggestions.= She stated something needed to change because the situation was beco= ming worse. She said they tried wo= rking with the Police; the last accident was a hit and run and the suspect was ne= ver apprehended.
Mr. Gleason stated that the Board would direct the Town Administrator to alert = the Highway Safety Committee to look into the situation and come up with a recommendation as to how it could be rectified. He requested that the Highway Safe= ty Committee respond to the Selectmen by the next meeting. Mr. Gaydos introduced Mr. Jutras a= nd Ms. LaRosa to Planning Director Jeff Gowan, who was seated in the public audience. <= /p>
Junkyard Renewal Applications: =
Lynde stated he had reviewed all three applications and found no problems.<=
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> He was prepared to vote. Mr. Gleason replied he had also re=
the various inspection reports (of the Fire Department, Code Enforcement and
the Deputy Health Officer) in connection with the requested applications.
All reports came back
Jean-Guy's Used Cars & P= arts – 180 Marsh Road, Pelham, NH 03076 / License Holder: Je= an-Guy Bergeron
= (Lynde/McDevitt) To approve the junkyard license renewal for Jean-Guy's Used Cars &a= mp; Parts for the period July 1, 2013 thru June 30, 2014.= p>
(5-0-0) The motion carried.
&nbs= p; &= nbsp; &nbs= p; &= nbsp;
Mr. Viger commented receiving a junkyard license in Town was not simply a matte= r of filling an application out. T= he applicant's complied with environment regulations, handling fluids properly and went through a review process. He said the businesses comply year= after year and should be commended for their hard work.
Coombs Used Auto Parts<= span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> – 1183 Mammoth Road, Pelham, NH 03076 /= License Holder: Norman Coombs & Sons
Mr. Gleason noted the inspections came back favorably.
= (Lynde/McDevitt) To approve the junkyard renewal application for Coombs Used Auto Parts effective July 1, 2013 thru June 30, 2014.
(5-0-0) The motion carried.
Mr. Viger reiterated that the junkyard had to comply with all the rules/regulat= ions of the State. They were also reviewed and checked off by the Town Fire Inspector, Deputy Health Officer = and the Code Officer from the Planning Department.
Jack Mansur's Auto, LLC - =
span> 76=
Road, Pelham, NH 03076 / License Holder: Jack Mansur =
= o:p>
Mr. Gleason said the three Town inspections had all come back favorably.
= (Lynde/McDevitt) To approve the junkyard renewal application for Jack Mansur's Auto, LLC. effective July 1, 2013 thru June 30, 2014.
(5-0-0) The motion carried.
Mr. Lynde commented in early years of doing the review process it was more ardu= ous to get things squared away. H= e said in the past several years the property owners had complied with the Town's Regulations and done a good job. They had also complied with State Regulations.
Mr. Gaydos agreed with Mr. Lynde's comments. He said in the past it was an arduous process because the Town didn't have a good set of guidelines. He and former Sel= ectmen Bergeron went to the State Department of Environmental Services to heavily = lobby them to come up with a uniform set of rules for everyone to follow, which turned out to become the Green Yards Program. There were many towns and small businesses that appreciated those efforts.= It was a great step forward for the industry. Mr. Gaydos thanked Mr. Bergeron for those efforts.
Discussion with Lance Ouellette= - Regarding Lyons Park Vending Machines
Lance Ouellette (13 Gaston Road), Vice Chairman of the Ice Garden came forward to discuss vending machines located at Lyons Park.
Mr. Gleason understood that the proceeds from the sale of the beverages (in the vending machines) at Lyons Park went to the Ice Garden. He said he was told there was a di= alog between Chris Mader and the Recreation Department that they would like to transfer those proceeds to the Recreation Department in consideration of the Recreation Department assuming some of the responsibilities for putting up = and taking down the ice garden and funding the rink when the program had to go = to Salem, NH. Mr. Gleason now un= derstood it was Mr. Ouellette's assertion that the machines were leased by him= and he was not in agreement with Mr. Gleason's previous statement.
Mr. Ouellette said he received a phone call from Chris Mader who indicated he s= poke with Park & Recreation Director Brian Johnson who was informed by the T= own Administrator that they wanted to take over the machines to raise revenue to fix the basketball nets. Ther= e was no negotiation. He questioned= what they would do for private funds that helped out the community, ice rink and other things they did. Mr. Ouellette said Mr. Mader was very frustrated. Mr. Mader told him if he wanted to= take on the situation, he could do so since the machines were in Mr. Ouellette's company name and he also maintained them. He said he didn't speak with = Mr. Gaydos; instead he spoke with one of the Selectmen and was told to come in front of the Board. Mr. Ouell= ette provided a brief history of how the machines came to be in his company̵= 7;s name. He explained Police Chi= ef Roark approached him a few years ago who indicated there were two spots the Police Department had vending machines they couldn't keep up with (refilling and maintenance). = The Chief told Mr. Ouellette he was welcome to put vending machines in those locations and raise some revenue. At that time Chris Mader applied for a 501c (non-profit). The machines were obtained and they raised revenue. It was noted = that the Fire & Ice Tournament was not held last season, which most of the proceeds had gone to in the past, therefore the account contained a little = over $1500. Mr. Ouellette said the= funds went to other organizations and programs as well. He said if the Town needed the mon= ey to help support their basketball nets, etc., he was not against it, but felt t= he communication should have been a bit more insightful. He said the President of the Ice R= ink (Chris Mader) was very frustrated; they were trying to raise funds for a new rink, location and installation. He would like to keep the machines and maintain them in conjunction with Mr. Mader; they were still willing to take on the responsibility if the Town wi= ll allow them to.
Mr. Lynde felt the Selectmen needed a follow up meeting with the Recreation Director because he wanted to understand what was happening. He was under the impression that t= he Recreation Department was contributing to the effort and would like the opportunity to understand the full picture.
Mr. Gleason was told there was a conversation between Mr. Mader and Mr. Johnson that indicated since the Recreation Department was assuming more responsibilities it would be nice to offset the costs with the proceeds from the machines. He said i= f that wasn't what transpired, he agreed with Mr. Lynde, the Selectmen neede= d to delve further into the situation. = span>
Ouellette said the applications for the men to be on the hockey teams helped
pay for the Ice Center when the season got warm and they couldn't have
the playoffs they were moved. The
volunteers partnered with the Ice Center (in Salem) to set everything up.
Mr. Gleason asked Mr. Ouellette if he leased the machines. Mr. Ouellette said the machines we= re leased through his company, A Handy Company. He said there was another machine = leased through his company at one of the local schools. All the money raised went directly= to the school. Mr. Gleason asked= if Mr. Ouellette had built the facility that housed the machines. Mr. Ouellette answered no; he unde= rstood the funds to build the facility had come from the Police Relief Fund. Mr. Gleason confirmed Mr. Ouellett= e was responsible for the machines housed within the facility. Mr. Ouellette said he and Mr. Made= r were fully responsible for filling the machines and their maintenance. He said all the funds taken out of= the machines went directly to Mr. Mader and his wife for accounting.
Mr. Viger asked about the relationship between the Ice Garden and the Recreation Department and if the department collected money for the ice garden programs. Mr. Ouellette said = there had been a few organizations in Town that had given them a few donations; t= hose private funds go directly into the 501c account. He said the fees collected by the Recreation Department, for the ice hockey program, went toward trash remova= l in the park and to accommodate teen volunteers (buying food and drinks). He noted the Town had helped the i= ce garden by providing a snow blower it wasn't something they requested;= he purchases the gasoline. The Ice Garden and the Town currently have a good relationship going back and forth. Mr. Ouellette said whe= n he spoke to Mr. Johnson a second time the situation was better explained to hi= m, but he decided to still attend the meeting. He didn't know if the Recrea= tion Department had the manpower or any interest in filling machines.
Mr. McDevitt was unsure why the Selectmen were having the discussion. From what he heard, Mr. Gleason understood Mr. Ouellette would turn the proceeds over if the Recreation Department needed the funds, but there had been a lack of dialog. Mr. Ouellette said he didn't= want to work against the Town. He = and Mr. Mader understood that each Town department was being scrutinized to red= uce their budgets. The Ice Garden= would like to keep the proceeds, but if need be, they also understood the money raised may be needed to pay for things.&nb= sp;
Mr. Haverty commented that during the holidays the Pelham Spirit Committee put = on the Festival of Trees. The pr= oceeds they raise go back to them. H= e said the Ice Garden Committee puts up a rink and came up with a mechanism to fund it. In his opinion, the Town = was saying there were funds that could be reapplied to somewhere else. Mr. Haverty stated the Ice Garden = came up with an innovative approach to fund their program, if the Town now takes= the funds and applies them to create a bigger recreation program, the Ice Garden would be left with a deficit. He said if they didn't have that funding source, they would have to come= up with something else. Mr. Have= rty said the machines were their idea, and they were maintaining them and putti= ng the money back into a program for Pelham residents. He felt they should be left alone.=
Mr. Gleason believed the issue to be that the Parks & Recreation Department were expected to do more and more in connection with the ice rink, such as providing labor to put the rink up and take it down and providing facilities. The idea behind i= t was to transfer some of the money to cover expenses that they previously didn't incur. He felt he didn't have enough information. He recommended that Mr. Johnson and Mr. Ouellette have a conversation and come back to the Board with a solution. He agreed with Mr. Haverty and didn't want to arbitrarily take money away from the Ice Garden.
Lynde felt there was a distinction between the Ice Garden and Pelham Commun=
Spirit. He said Pelham Commun=
Spirit rents the hall and covers their expenses. He said they make a profit=
turn around and fund the Concerts on the Village Green(and other Town,
non-profit groups and scholarships etc) .&=
In the situation being
discussed (with the Ice Garden), it appeared the Town was assisting them.
Mr. Haverty wanted to find out how much the Town was assisting and find out the right level of compensation. = He wanted to understand how far the registration fees went for the hockey program and if there was a de= ficit there as well.
Mr. Gleason reiterated the recommendation to have Mr. Johnson and Mr. Ouellette speak with each other and be prepared to come back to the Selectmen in two weeks with a recommended solution. <= /span>
Mr. Ouellette noted the ice rink started out as a public skating rink. Later, Parks & Recreation, Mr. Ouellette and Mr. Mader got together for the creation of an over thirty year old pond hockey league. To ru= n that league and have lights on, the Town needed to offset the costs. To do so, each player was charged a certain fee. Up until last ye= ar, the only thing the Recreation did was to collect the fees from each hockey player to pay for the lights and trash collection. All the volunteers, in coordinatio= n with teens needing community service hours, would help set up the rink and take = it down. Mr. Ouellette said last= year they had a scheduled date to take the rink down, but received a phone call = from Mr. Johnson indicating the rink had already been taken down. He said he was happy it had been d= one; Mr. Johnson decided to do it on his own.
Mr. Gaydos was asked to have Mr. Johnson meet with the Selectmen in two weeks to discuss his recommendation. M= r. Ouellette said he would provide the Selectmen with a copy of the 501c docum= ent and a list of the current Ice Garden board members. Mr. Gleason understood there had b= een a lack of dialogue. He said that dialogue had to take place before the topic came back to the Selectmen.
Paul Zarnowski, Deputy Health Offic= er and Jeff Gowan, Planning Director -
<= /o:p>
Deputy Health Officer, Paul Zarnowski and Planning Director Jeff Gowan came forwar= d to discuss the scheduled agenda items. Mr. Gowan began with the proposed draft changes to the Residential/Commercial Water Supply Regulations – Well Ordinance for = New Construction, which included the recommended changes from Town Attorney Joh= n Rattigan along with minor adjustments learned from the Department of Environmental Services ('DES'). The Selectmen reviewed the draft and discussed the proposed changes. Mr. Gleason said the intent of the review was to note any concerns or modifications they felt to be appropriate. They would conve= ne as the Board of Health at a subsequent meeting to approve the documents. The Selectmen agreed.
The Selectmen then reviewed the proposed draft of the Waste Disposal Systems Regulations. Mr. Zarnowski sa= id most of the changes fell in line with DES requirements. The proposed changes would also ad= dress problems occurred in the past regarding seasonal properties. Mr. Gowan noted when the regulatio= n was enacted, they would propose a zoning change to remove distances, since they never should have been in zoning. &nb= sp; He said they wanted to make sure it was properly controlled someplace else before it was pulled out.
The Selectmen didn't have objections to the way the regulation was presented. Mr. Gleason said t= hey would convene a Board of Health session at the next meeting to approve the = two documents. <= /span>
Jeff Gowan, Planning Director:<= o:p>
Mr. Gowan explained that he attended Transportation Technical Advisory Committee ('TTAC') meetings. TTAC is an advisory committee to the Nashua Regional Planning Commission ('NRPC') . He sai= d the State and NRPC were both making road classification changes. Atwood Rd, Dutton Rd. and Old Gage= Hill Rd. would be changed from being a Local Road to a road eligible for Federal= Aid Highway. Currier Rd. Jericho = Rd. and Livingston Rd. would switch from being eligible for Federal Aid Highway= to being a Local Road. He agreed= with the proposed assessments and read aloud a portion of an e-mail sent by July Chizmas of NRPC indicating the response she received from the NH Department= of Transportation ('DOT'). It read: Prior to the functi= onal class review, the principal arterial abruptly stopped at Main Street. It is my understanding of the guid= ance that the principal arterial system (PAS) should connect to other parts of t= he PAS. As such, the choice was = to either make the entire route = (Route 38) a PAS to I-93 a principal arterial or to make it a minor arterial. From our perspective, it was more = of a minor arterial. Please note t= hat if this route becomes a principal arterial it will be subject to the junkyard = and outdoor advertising. Mr. = Gowan noted that the Town had their own laws regarding junkyard and outdoor advertising and going between a principal and minor arterial didn't affect the ability to get State funds.&nbs= p; He felt there would simply be an interest in the designation.
Gleason asked if there were other ramifications to changing the
designation. Mr. Gowan didn=
see any. He reviewed the map
graphic provided to the Selectmen with the color key for road designation.<=
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Mr. Gleason asked if it was TTAC=
intention to move forward with the proposed designation. Mr. Gowan said TTAC was responding=
the designation changes for all the communities involved. He wanted the Selectmen to be awar=
e of
the proposed changes. =
= o:p>
Mr. Lynde saw notations regarding increases in the Federal Aid Impact that incl= uded mileage designations for each of the roads. He questioned what it meant. Mr. Gowan said he would get an answer.
Mr. Gleason asked Mr. Gowan to provide an update of the Roundabout Project. Mr. Gowan commented Fairpoint had improved, which will allow Continental to remain working until late August. The Town roundabout (= one of two roundabouts) will be completed prior to Continental's departure , except for final top coat of pavement and landscaping (to be completed in 2014). There will be a tempor= ary signage package so the Town roundabout will have partial functionality; Aco= rn will remain one-way due to Fairpoint's underground conduit in the way. The conduit cannot be re= moved until Fairpoint relocates the lines onto the new poles in the area. Final configuration and full operation of the roundabout will not be achieved unt= il 2014.
Mr. Lynde questioned if there was further commitment from everyone as to when w= ork would be done. Mr. Gowan said= he asked Continental how things were going with the utility companies, they= 217;d seen significant improvement with Fairpoint and Liberty. He was cautious that they work wit= h NH Department of Transportation ('DOT'), versus working around them. Mr. Lynde felt the Town should have something more firm in place to understand what will be happening. He was concerned a= t some point in time a project delay would impact the Town on a cost basis because= it would be over the allocated amount. Mr. Gowan said he would ask the DOT if they'd received a firm commitment from both utilities to move forward and would share the response with the Board. = span>
Gleason understood that the Town roundabout would be functional by the end =
August and questioned if there was a projection for when the second roundab=
would be done. Mr. Gowan said=
it was
anticipated to start at the beginning of the construction season in 2014.
McDevitt said the road behind the former fire station had become a de facto=
V road with 2-way traffic since the 'no thru traffic' signs were
taken down. He asked that the
Highway Safety Committee review the road because he believed it was never
intended to serve the function of bypassing the Town Center intersections.<=
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Mr. Gowan said if it was okay with=
Fire and Police Chiefs, the reasonable thing to do is ask Continental to bl=
the road when they leave. The=
was a construction site and would remain as such through the completion of =
project. The Selectmen asked =
the Highway Safety Committee make a recommendation for Selectmen review.
Review List of Road Name Sugges= tions for Pelham Common Highway (behind former fire station)
Mr. Gleason reviewed the road names submitted for consideration; a copy of whic= h is available for public review at the Selectmen's Office. The Highway Safety Committee ('HSC') provided their recommendations. The Selectmen discussed the proposed road names and made the following motion.
= (Viger/Haverty) To change Pelham Common Highway to Meeting House Way.
(5-0-0) The motion carried.
The Selectmen will review Blacksmith Road on July 9, 2013 and a public hearing = will be scheduled for July 23, 2013 to discuss (make a decision) regarding the three road name chang= es in connection with the roundabout project.&nb= sp; The target date for the roads name changes to 'go live' = will be discussed at the public hearing.
Highway Safety Committee recommendation re: chain link fence between Town Hall and the former Fire Station
<= o:p>
The Selectmen were provided with the written recommendation by the Highway Safety Committee ('HSC'). Mr. Gowan described the area that = would be affected. The HSC consensu= s was to have a pathway/access from the newly created common area to the recreati= onal area behind Town Hall without having to walk across where the Police vehicl= es drove through.
Mr. McDevitt suggested that the Selectmen be giv=
en a
drawing that showed the location of the proposed access. Mr. Gowan said he could outline th=
e area
using a Google Earth image. I=
t was
noted that the Japanese Knotweed would need to be buried because it was an
invasive species. Mr. Gaydos =
noted Continental had agreed to pull the
fence, bury the Japanese Knotweed and loam the area. They would also put the ston=
from the old stone wall that were at the base of the chain link fence and p=
them up. Mr. McDevitt s=
the Garden Club had an idea to use some stones in the shared roundabouts.
Mr. Gleason said the Selectmen had a discussion = at their last meeting about what they would like done in the area. Mr. Gowan will share those feeling= s with the HSC.
Mr. Gowan said he attended a meeting at the New Hampshire Municipal Association on the new MS4 permit. He said it was a tremendously comp= lex series of requirements. He sa= id the process would be very different from what they had done in the past. He said the Town would be obligate= d to identify any new storm water infrastructure, and monitor and test any outfl= ow before it got to any kind of wetland body. The Town will be liable for anythin= g in it. Mr. Gowan said a gr= oup of communities were getting together to provide comments. He will stay engaged in the proces= s and report back to the Selectmen.
<= o:p>
Discussion of RFP/Bidding Proce= ss
Mr. Gleason said the Selectmen had numerous discussions regarding the bidding process. The Selectmen were provided with a copy of the procurement policy. His initial impression was that the document (although signed by only two Selectmen at the time) had enough information in it to cover procurements.&n= bsp; He felt the necessity was for the Selectmen to adhere to it. He welcomed the comments/recommend= ations of the Selectmen. He asked that the policy be updated and signed by the full Board.
Mr. Viger questioned how the document could be binding with only two Selectmen signatures. Mr. McDevitt said= a motion was made and the Selectmen voted; the number of signatures was inconsequential. <= /span>
Mr. Lynde wanted the opportunity to review the document thoroughly. Mr. McDevitt said the way the docu= ment was put together put too much power in the position of Town Administrator a= nd not enough responsibility on the Board of Selectmen for the $15,000 and over. Mr. Haverty agreed that responsibility and oversight should be reviewed. Mr. McDevitt offered to draft revi= sed wording. He suggested that the document contemplate items that, in the aggregate, totaled $15,000 or more.= Mr. Gleason also offered to sit wi= th Mr. Gaydos and draft a policy for Selectmen review at their next meeting.
Mr. Gaydos liked the section of the document that talks about waivers, but suggested reviewing items on a case-by-case basis to discuss how they shoul= d be approached. He said for the l= ast eight years, they had been fairly successful. The way to address situations was = to have discussions and have feedback from the Selectmen.
Viger said policy could be used by the Selectmen as a guideline to follow, =
felt there would be times that the Board would have to act to make something
work for what they needed to do. He
felt if they had a discussion and came up with a reasonable solution, it wo=
be an effective way to handle the policy.&=
He said there may be instances where they couldn't follow the
policy. He used mosquito cont=
rol as
an example; there are two people in the State, one covers the north, one co=
the south. Mr. Viger said by =
through and acknowledging the process may take care of those situations.
Mr. Haverty said the policy was largely intact but needed some cleaning up and updating. Mr. Gleason heard f= rom the Selectmen that the policy was adequate and wanted to know how they would like to update the document. = Mr. McDevitt said he would take the lead to suggest revisions for Selectmen inp= ut and discussion at the next meeting. There was no objection.
Mr. Gleason felt it would be a good time to discuss the sprinkler system for the Fire Station. He and Mr. Have= rty met with Young Brothers and Mr. Charlie Boyden of Boyden Landscaping to try= to determine the uniqueness of the irrigation system that would necessitate staying with Young Brothers. = In the meeting they were told that the pump previously put in had a 36-gallon per minute capacity. A 300-gallon reserve tank had been put in and was drained as they did the irrigation systems. Mr. Gaydos noted eac= h zone took approximately 50-gallons per minute.&= nbsp; Mr. Gleason said the uniqueness was if the irrigation for the Fire Department was added to it, they would need to add it to the existing scheme for watering the other areas, which may be difficult for a new person to understand. He felt going with Young Brothers for that new irrigation would make sense, versus going out w= ith an RFP.
Mr. Haverty said one company said it made sense for them to come in for the new system because of the issues with drawing off the tank and having a re-char= ge factor and because there would be new zones installed. He suggested putting the wor= k out in an RFP (formal or informal). He felt they should articulate how the current system worked at the Town Hall = and hear how companies would handle the situation. He said unless they handled it lik= e a problem, asked the questions and heard all different types of solutions, th= ey would be limiting themselves. In the end they may go with the current company, but at least they would have information.
Mr. McDevitt questioned if Young Brothers balanced the system and if the person= who won the bid would also do so using Young Brother's system. He said it might be in the best in= terest of the Town to stay with one vendor because it would be an extension of the existing system. Mr. Haverty = said the solution may not be an extension of the existing system, it may be a st= andalone system for the Fire Station. =
Mr. Viger felt Mr. Haverty was on the right track. He also felt when reviewing a new proposal they should take into account that there is an existing contractor that did all the service, management and updates that would come into play = when reviewing a new proposal. Mr. McDevitt wanted to be mindful of cost.&nbs= p; He said it might be difficult to determine who was responsible when a service situation came up.
Mr. Gleason asked for the anticipated cost to implement the irrigation system.<= span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> Mr. Gaydos believed it was $7,000.= Mr. Gleason asked for the cost of = the well that was installed. Mr. = Gaydos said it was a while ago and didn't recall the exact cost. He said they ended up installing a= well because the Pennichuck bill for one summer was approximately $6,000. He noted they didn't get the= yield from the well that they originally thought.
Mr. Viger said he was a vendor and made his living on relationships. He felt they should keep a balance= on maintaining long-term valuable relationships and ensuring the voters receiv= ed the most for their dollar. He= said they would have the best qualified people working on their systems, but the= ir pricing should be checked now and again by sending things out to bid.
The Selectmen discussed how they would proceed. Mr. Haverty noted the figure propo= sed was under $10,000 and could follow an informal RFP process that didn't require a sealed bid. He said= they could put together one sheet listing the limitations, measurements and what they were looking for. They c= ould invite everyone to review the site and submit a solution. Mr. Gleason said the RFP would out= line what the existing system was so the companies could propose solutions. Mr. Lynde said in doing the math f= or the wells and irrigation he questioned how they would determine what was needed. He said it would be n= ice to have a better understanding of the capabilities for the current system and didn't see a problem with going out and having companies offer solutions. Mr. Viger said the= y also needed to be aware of the capabilities of the people who were bidding; a balance was needed in the selection process. Mr. Gaydos said he would find out exactly what they had for a system and its capabilities.
Mr. Gleason deferred the discussion to the next meeting until Mr. Gaydos obtain= ed the information regarding the system. Mr. McDevitt noted that there was an existing well in the back parki= ng lot area of the Municipal Building that had supplied the school. He said the problem was the locati= on of that well and it may be less expensive to run lines from it.
* see Selectmen Reports for further conversation regarding the RFP.
2013 Budget Performance –= to include 2013 Default Budget Reductions
The Selectmen reviewed the 2013 budget performan= ce information. Mr. Gleason saw = that the Insurance budget was still high and questioned if it would flatten out. Mr. Gaydos believed it w= ould flatten out. He noted under t= he Secretary of State's Order the Town would be reimbursed the amounts f= rom the subsidy paid (that was overcharged) between the Health Insurance Trust = and the Workman's Compensation Trust.&nb= sp; He believed Pelham would receive approximately $100,000. He'll provide the Selectmen = with a projection for where they would end up at the end of the year. <= /span>
Mr. Gleason asked why the Selectmen budget was r= unning close. Mr. Gaydos said he wou= ld provide a report of the expense line items.
Mr. Lynde provided an explanation for the Insura= nce costs.
Mr. Gleason said he was approached by Representa= tive Lynn Ober who expressed a desire to meet with the Selectmen to discuss the State budget; she's a member of the committee. He said he would schedule her to c= ome in during the second meeting in July. &n= bsp;
Gaydos had a conversation with Charlene Takesian in connection with the Pel=
Community Spirit Group. They =
like to have six hanging banners that secure to a pole with seasonal themes,
and to inform about the Village Green concerts. Pelham Community Spirit would like
permission to hang these banners on six of the light poles in the Village
Green. Mr. Gleason suggested =
to Code Enforcement about the banners.&nbs=
Mr. Gaydos said he would have a discussion with Code Enforcement.
Mr. Haverty went back to the irrigation discussion. He said there was seed down (being watered by hand), it was summer and felt the Selectmen should resolve the i= ssue rather than deferring it for two weeks.&nb= sp; Mr. Gleason said there was a question raised by Mr. Lynde about the adequacy of the existing system and its capacity. Mr. Lynde didn't feel gettin= g the answer would take two weeks. = Mr. Gaydos said when they moved into the Municipal Building the system was installed in Village Green and there were hoses with sprinklers put around = the building. He said for a short= -term solution they could hook up to Pennichuck. Mr. Gleason asked Mr. Gaydos= to put together a one-page RFP for the Selectmen to review. There was no objection by the Selectmen. =
= (McDevitt/Haverty) To have Young Brothers Pump Company install the irrigation system around = the Fire Station.
(2-3-0) The motion failed. Mr. Haverty, Mr. Lynde and Mr. G= leason voted no.
Mr. Gleason asked Mr. Gaydos to prepare an RFP.
Mr. Lynde reminded the public that the first concert on the Village Green would= be held Wednesday, June 26, 2013.
As a Commissioner of the NRPC, Mr. Gleason attended a meeting and found out th= at the dues projected for this year would be the same as last year. He felt the money was well spent b= ased on the assistance the Town received. He then said he would be adding a discussion to an upcoming agenda to discuss accepting credit cards (for a user fee) for registrations. They would not be accepted for tax= es at this time. There was no objec= tion to allow the Town Clerk's office to upgrade their Muni Smart System to include E-Reg system through a website.&nb= sp; Mr. Gleason discussed the Fire Station dedication ceremony and comme= nded the Fire Department and Mr. Gaydos on the success of the event.
(McDevitt/H= averty) Request for a non-public session per RSA 91-A:3,II, a & e (Personnel; Consideration or negotiation of pending claims or litigation)<= /span>
Mr. Gleason-Yes; Mr. McDevitt-Yes; Mr. Viger-Y= es; Mr. Haverty-Yes;
Mr. Lynde-Yes
It was noted that when the Board returned, after= the non-public session, the Board would not take any other action publicly, exc= ept to possibly seal the minutes of the non-public session and to adjourn the meeting. The Board entered in= to a non-public session at approximately 9:03pm.
The Board returned to public session at approxim= ately 9:35 pm.
= (Haverty/McDevitt) To seal the minutes of the non-public session indefinitely. = span>
(5-0-0) The motion carried.
<= o:p>
(Haverty/Mc= Devitt) To adjourn the meeting.
(5-0-0 ) The motion carried. <=
<= /o:p>
The meeting was adjourned at approximately 9:35 = pm.
&nbs= p; &= nbsp; &nbs= p; &= nbsp; &nbs= p; &= nbsp; Respectfully submitted,
&nbs= p; &= nbsp; &nbs= p; &= nbsp; &nbs= p; &= nbsp; Charity A. Landry
&nbs= p; &= nbsp; &nbs= p; &= nbsp; &nbs= p; &= nbsp; Recording Secretary
BOARD OF SELECTMEN MEETING/June 25, 2013