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Date: 20 June 2012, 20:00-21:00 UTC

<ac:link><ri:page ri:content-title="2012-06-20 Meeting Agenda" /><ac:link-body>Agenda</ac:link-body></ac:link>

Moderator: Matthew Weier O'Phinney (nickname weierophinney)

Next meeting: 27 June 2012

Adopting PSR-1 / PSR-2 coding standards

(Search for "20:02:25" in the log.)

PSR-1 and PSR-2 have recently been accepted, and they provide the kernel for a coding standards recommendation:

PSR-1

PSR-2

Currently, the only change this would require in the current ZF2 coding standards is to have a "use" statement per import (vs. a single "use" statement, with each import separated by commas).

There was no debate about whether or not we should comply; consensus was immediate, and in favor.

tl;dr: There will be some slight changes to the ZF2 coding standards soon so we can be PSR-1 and PSR-2 compliant.

Replacing the Plugin Broker + PluginClassLocator with ServiceManager

(Search for "20:06:51" in the log.)

Matthew raised a discussion on the ML suggesting replacing plugin broker usage with context-specific service managers, and also posted a prototype. Since the plugin broker solution is a subset of the service manager, and currently allows injecting a service manager anyways, it seems reasonable to reduce the number of APIs in the framework and provide a more flexible solution.

As Rob Allen (Akrabat) noted, "that's the one where we rip out code that noone uses and use the stuff we all have to use" – less code, and an API everyone will be familiar with (as it's the core of the MVC).

Just as in the PSR-1/PSR-2 discussion, there was immediate consensus in favor of taking this approach. (Update: Matthew already has a pull request for this in place.)

tl;dr: plugin broker usage will be replaced with context-specific service managers in time for beta5.

(Search for "20:11:54" in the log.)

Gary Hockin (Spabby) raised a discussion via the agenda suggesting we need to clean up documentation.

Matthew noted that Jonas Marien has volunteered to refactor existing documentation not currently published to follow the new namespaces and class/interface/etc. renamings so that we at least have some documentation in place. Additionally, his <ac:link><ri:page ri:content-title="Proposal for Documentation in ZF2" /><ac:link-body>RFC</ac:link-body></ac:link> appears to have widespread agreement... but we don't have a plan for implementation.

Rob Allen (Akrabat) reiterated that we need to do something radical with the documentation. Evan Coury (EvanDotPro) raised a concern that docbook may be a barrier to entry for many potential contributors.

In the end, we realized we need a solid proposal for action. We agreed that Gary, Matthew, and Rob would collaborate to come up with such a proposal and present it to the community soon so we can start work.

tl;dr: In the short term, please help Jonas get current docs updated and in line with current code. If you have concrete ideas on how to improve documentation moving forward, including arguments for other documentation formats, please bring them up on the list.

Which components to ship?

(Search for "20:21:15" in the log.)

This topic was chaotic. Rob Allen (Akrabat) had posted to the mailing list last week a list of components and current testing, packaging, and documentation status for each, and has asked that we decide what will be in the stable version.

Unfortunately, there are a number of questions:

What do we do with any components we choose not to ship in the stable release? (i.e., do they all go in a separate repo? or a separate repo per component? or perhaps a separate branch on the zf2 repo? or simply delete and let folks pull from the history?

What constitutes a stable component? Number of maintainers? Passing tests? Refactorization during Zf2 lifecycle?

Basically, we couldn't come to a consensus on any of these points.

We decided that Rob and Matthew will create a Google form with the list of components, current testing/documentation/packaging status, and known maintainers, and ask the community to vote on each. Additionally, we'll create a Google form or wiki poll presenting the various options for splitting out unstable components.

tl;dr: lots of polls in the community's future.

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20:01:46 <weierophinney> So, we have 4 agenda items.
20:02:06 <weierophinney> I'm going through them in the order of least resistance ... as in, doing the ones that require least discussion first.
20:02:16 < DASPRiD> so, the voting one first?
20:02:22 < DASPRiD> (PSR-2)
20:02:25 <weierophinney> First up: Adopting PSR-1 / PSR-2 coding standards.
20:02:29 <weierophinney> DASPRiD: you guessed it. :0
20:02:38 <weierophinney> Anybody have any reservations at all about doing this?
20:02:40 < ocramius> well, what has to be discussed?
20:02:46 < SpiffyJr> Eh, I haven't read the specs so 0
20:02:49 <weierophinney> ocramius: that's what I'm getting at.
20:02:54 < Freeaqingme> my opinion: Since we're actively taking part on drawing up the psr stuff, I think we'd be fools not to adhere to them ourselves
20:02:56 < DASPRiD> i just got one point: extend it, add e.g. array definitions
20:03:05 < DASPRiD> Freeaqingme, idd
20:03:13 <weierophinney> In a nutshell, the only thing that they have in them that would require a change on our part is declaration of imports.
20:03:16 < ocramius> Freeaqingme: exactly
20:03:16 < Akrabat> what's idd?
20:03:22 < Freeaqingme> *indeed
20:03:27 < DASPRiD> weierophinney, well, we got my shell script for that
20:03:27 < Akrabat> ah
20:03:39 < DASPRiD> Akrabat, you already asked that a couple of times
20:03:43 <weierophinney> one "use" statement per import. I've been doing it in all new code already.
20:03:57 < SocalNick> weierophinney: i've seen that lately and like it
20:04:09 < Akrabat> I like that too
20:04:14 < ocramius> weierophinney: I also started using using those conventions for in-house stuff and like them totally, so yeah =)
20:04:15 < SpiffyJr> webik, good, I like that change
20:04:18 <weierophinney> We'd need to modify our CS to simply base off those two standards, and then add whatever else we have specific to our needs.
20:04:19 < SpiffyJr> err, weierophinney ^^
20:04:25 < Maks3w> I don't have any reservation about PSR-1/2 only we need complete the parts without specification like split conditional statements in if/else
20:04:35 < jurians> DASPRiD: what you mean with extend with array definitions?
20:04:45 < DASPRiD> jurians, it's missing array stuff
20:04:49 <weierophinney> Maks3w: which is precisetly what I said above.
20:04:53 < DASPRiD> (formatting)
20:05:02 < prolic> i guess everybody will be fine with PSR-1/2, so let's vote
20:05:10 <weierophinney> DASPRiD: right – that's where we would be "psr-1/2 + these additional rules"
20:05:17 < Maks3w> for me it's good have the same split rules than with arguments in functions
20:05:26 < DASPRiD> Maks3w, right
20:05:29 <weierophinney> !vote-start Adopt PSR-1 and 2?
20:05:34 < WalterTamboer> +1
20:05:35 < Freeaqingme> +1
20:05:35 < prolic> +1
20:05:36 <weierophinney> is that the right notation, DASPRiD?
20:05:36 < Maks3w> +1
20:05:37 < SocalNick> +1
20:05:37 < DeNixPort> +1
20:05:37 < Akrabat> +1
20:05:37 < Left_brained> +1
20:05:38 < DASPRiD> Maks3w, although we had one additional thing: aligning "=>"
20:05:38 < mattcockayne> +1
20:05:38 < DASPRiD> +1
20:05:39 < PadraicB> +1
20:05:40 < jurians> DASPRiD: you mean this part: http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV2/Coding+Standards#CodingStandards-Arrays
20:05:40 < sigriffiths> +1
20:05:41 < mabe_> +1
20:05:44 < cgmartin> +1
20:05:44 < ocramius> +1
20:05:48 < DASPRiD> weierophinney, no
20:05:51 < webik> +1
20:05:52 < DASPRiD> weierophinney, it's start-vote
20:05:56 < SpiffyJr> Well, holy hell.
20:05:59 < SpiffyJr> I guess I should +1
20:05:59 < jurians> hehe
20:06:01 < SpiffyJr> +1
20:06:04 < Freeaqingme> weierophinney, not sure we need a bot to count the -1's
20:06:10 < ocramius> DASPRiD: do we really need that? visual impact is enough right now
20:06:11 < PadraicB> ROFL
20:06:16 < Maks3w> DASPRiD, Really we need it's how split docblock lines
20:06:16 < DASPRiD> ocramius,
20:06:17 * SpiffyJr folds under peer pressure
20:06:25 <weierophinney> okay, that vote is done.
20:06:30 < Maks3w> like @param xxx|xxxx|xxxx|xxx dfasf daf dsfads fds afds
20:06:30 < DASPRiD> hehe
20:06:45 < DASPRiD> Maks3w, that's doc block definitions, which we should have as well
20:06:51 <weierophinney> Next topic: Plugin Broker + PluginClassLocator replacement with ServiceManager
20:07:07 < DASPRiD> +1
20:07:08 < DASPRiD>
20:07:09 <weierophinney> I raised the discussion on the ML: http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Proposal-replace-the-plugin-loader-with-the-service-manager-tp4655378.html
20:07:15 < SpiffyJr> +1
20:07:27 < mpinkston> +1
20:07:28 < Akrabat> that's the one where we rip out code that noone uses and use the stuff we all have to use ...
20:07:34 < Maks3w> IMO we could add a special note. If you don't see the full line in GitHub without move the scrollbar, then you need split the line
20:07:38 <weierophinney> I've made some improvements today, and it's seriously slimmer than the Plugin Broker solution.
20:07:56 < WalterTamboer> less code to worry about, +1 for me as well
20:07:59 <weierophinney> Akrabat: exactly.
20:08:00 < DASPRiD> Maks3w, i think any sane guy tries to go with 80 characters
20:08:09 < SpiffyJr> one of the pr's Akrabat likes so much (-200000 lines, +2 lines)
20:08:10 < PadraicB> +1
20:08:18 <weierophinney> Maks3w, DASPRiD we're on a new topic now... take it elsewhere.
20:08:23 < Akrabat> SpiffyJr: exactly
20:08:26 <weierophinney> SpiffyJr: LOL
20:08:26 < DASPRiD> weierophinney, sure
20:08:27 < ocramius> I think no-one would even use the broker itself directly with so much awesomeness on the other side
20:08:29 < Maks3w> !vote-end?
20:08:30 < DASPRiD> brb, rebooting
20:08:30 < prolic> when i saw the plugin broker the first time, i couldn't even understand why not di or sm here? so +1
20:08:45 < SocalNick> I believe one of the original goals of ZF2 was to standardize plugin loading across modules, this goes a step further +1
20:09:05 < Freeaqingme> I'm always for standardization
20:09:06 < Freeaqingme> +1
20:09:08 <weierophinney> SocalNick: that was my thought – since Broker was a subset of SM, it seemed silly to have two implementations.
20:09:09 < mattcockayne> +1
20:09:13 <weierophinney> Anybody with reservations?
20:09:16 < Akrabat> obviously +1 here
20:09:17 < cgmartin> +1
20:09:19 <weierophinney> I can have this done in the next day or two.
20:09:21 < DeNixPort> +1
20:09:31 * EvanDotPro catches up
20:09:34 < Akrabat> I want to review it
20:09:34 < PadraicB> -1 is apparently an endangered species today...
20:09:35 < mpinkston> Though it may be useful to think about how to organize service locator alias names (or give tips on how to do it)
20:09:40 <weierophinney> PadraicB: LOL
20:09:43 < mpinkston> it can get hard to track
20:09:43 * SpiffyJr shoots PadraicB
20:09:48 < PadraicB>
20:09:49 * SpiffyJr realizes PadraicB wasn't actually -1'ing anything
20:09:55 <weierophinney> mpinkston: actually, I ended up being able to rip all aliases out in the latest revision
20:10:09 < mpinkston> oh, nice
20:10:11 <weierophinney> mpinkston: the way that the SM canonicalizes names, they weren't necessary – they all resolved the same.
20:10:20 < Akrabat> I wondered about that
20:10:24 < SpiffyJr> weierophinney, I ran into that a few times and had a wtf moment until I realized what was going on.
20:10:25 < mpinkston> great
20:10:30 < SpiffyJr> (something working when I didn't think it should)
20:10:33 < Akrabat> cos the error messages you get with SM are the normalised ones
20:10:37 <weierophinney> Akrabat: yep
20:10:42 < SpiffyJr> For a moment I thought ServiceManager was a higher power...
20:10:47 < EvanDotPro> is the vote still psr1/2?
20:10:49 <weierophinney> Akrabat: which will help you find them easier.
20:10:54 < SpiffyJr> EvanDotPro, SM PluginBroker
20:10:56 < jurians> EvanDotPro: nope, SM for plugin brokek
20:10:59 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro: no, we're on to the PluginBroker -> SM bit now.
20:11:04 * EvanDotPro continues catching up then
20:11:34 <weierophinney> I'm not seeing any body against it now... time to move on?
20:11:40 < Akrabat> yes
20:11:41 < WalterTamboer> yup
20:11:43 < prolic> yes
20:11:48 < DASPRiD> re
20:11:51 < mpinkston> awesome. I love the way that went
20:11:54 <weierophinney> Next on the "easiest to agree on to hardest" list: Documentation
20:11:55 < DASPRiD> yes
20:11:58 <weierophinney> So, an update...
20:12:07 <weierophinney> Jonas Marien from King Foo approached me at DPC
20:12:24 <weierophinney> and he's started going through and refactoring docs to follow new namespaces, change class names as necessary, etc.
20:12:39 <weierophinney> So, that's one piece of the puzzle. Enrico is helping him as well.
20:12:53 <weierophinney> Where's Spabby? He added this topic...
20:13:02 < Akrabat> and the RFC formatting?
20:13:15 * EvanDotPro points out that he's +1 on PSR1+2, and the pluginbroker -> sm topic.
20:13:17 <weierophinney> Akrabat: they're not doing that on first pass, but I'd like to do so.
20:13:25 < Akrabat> ok
20:13:27 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro: awesome, glad you're caught up.
20:13:41 < Akrabat> I'm very very keen that we do something radiacal with our doc quality and consistency
20:13:46 <weierophinney> Is there anybody who wants to spearhead the documentation effort?
20:13:58 < Akrabat> Spabby does
20:14:01 <weierophinney> crickets
20:14:09 <weierophinney> oh, sure, let's nominate the guy who's not here.
20:14:11 < Akrabat> I said I'd support him
20:14:13 <weierophinney> I'm good with that.
20:14:28 < Akrabat> if he doesn't step up, then I'll hassle people to do the work instead
20:14:41 <weierophinney> My plan is once beta5 is out the door, ralph, myself, and enrico will likely spend the bulk of our time on docs.
20:14:49 < EvanDotPro> i'd really like to see something done, but don't have the spare cycles to do anything myself.
20:14:50 < Akrabat> (as I 've no idea how busy he is)
20:14:52 <weierophinney> so we can support as well.
20:15:19 < Akrabat> I have limited time to do doc work, but can do organisation & management
20:15:28 < EvanDotPro> i think the current docbook format might be a barrier to entry to some who may have otherwise contributed to the docs.
20:15:32 < Maks3w> We should hard with the review of it or any contribution is welcome even if doesn't follow the format?
20:15:38 <weierophinney> I think we need an actual "plan", however – what doc format we want to use (if not docbook5), how we want to tackle examples and options. The RFC I have only goes as far as suggesting format, but now how to get there.
20:15:56 < SpiffyJr> docbook is, erm, confusing... I still haven't managed to compile it on Ubuntu.
20:16:05 < Akrabat> agreed. I can work with Spabby and anyone else interested in sorting that out
20:16:08 < SpiffyJr> it = the zf2 docs
20:16:12 < Freeaqingme> SpiffyJr, it's just one simple command
20:16:22 < SpiffyJr> Now you're just insulting me
20:16:29 < SpiffyJr>
20:16:31 < Freeaqingme> sorry, not my intention
20:16:33 < mpinkston> are we talking about two different issues; writing vs formatting?
20:16:34 < Akrabat> I don't have it working on my mac either...
20:16:42 <weierophinney> Akrabat: let's do an email with Spabby and see if we can come up with a plan for how to move forward.
20:16:44 < Maks3w> I think that at this moment we could do our efforts in fix the actual documentation and for the next major releases do it more professional
20:16:47 <weierophinney> Does that sound reasonable?
20:16:48 < Maks3w> with a structure
20:16:54 < Akrabat> mpinkston: they are intertwined
20:16:59 < Freeaqingme> weierophinney, perhaps part of the plan should be to set up a simple tutorial to get the docs compiling etc?
20:17:04 < Akrabat> loosely we need much better docs than we have with ZF1
20:17:14 < SpiffyJr> Freeaqingme, I think I was using the wrong Docblock format...
20:17:14 <weierophinney> Freeaqingme: I can definitely do that.
20:17:18 < SpiffyJr> Freeaqingme, Never revisited it.
20:17:23 < Akrabat> that's both look and feel along with consistent content
20:17:27 <weierophinney> Freeaqingme: it's mainly a matter of having the write XSLT and DTD at hand.
20:17:35 < Akrabat> weierophinney: re email: works for me
20:17:46 <weierophinney> kk, so decision points:
20:17:46 < cgmartin> Akrabat: agreed
20:17:49 <weierophinney> * We need a plan
20:17:59 < Maks3w> We could add a task in Travis to check the syntax
20:18:05 < SpiffyJr> Too bad there isn't just a Markdown doc format...
20:18:08 <weierophinney> * weierophinney, Akrabat, and Spabby will email and hash out details, and publish said plan
20:18:13 < SpiffyJr> So much easier than messing with XML stuff
20:18:16 < WalterTamboer> weierophinney: Isn't it wise to decide if docbook is the best tool for the job before everyone starts investing time in the docs?
20:18:26 <weierophinney> WalterTamboer: that's part of what we'll be hashing out.
20:18:36 < mpinkston> Akrabat: true, but perhaps there'd be better luck if writers didn't have to worry as much about formatting and that could instead be passed to editors
20:18:37 < Akrabat> * weierophinney, Akrabat & Spabby we hassle people to volunteer to help ou
20:18:44 <weierophinney> WalterTamboer: part of that will be figuring out how hard it will be getting existing content from docbook to another format.
20:18:46 < beberlei> there are some python tools which can easily convert docs between different formats
20:18:50 < beberlei> i always forget the name of that thing
20:18:53 <weierophinney> Akrabat: right, that's the third point.
20:19:01 < beberlei> but we used it to convert markdown based docs to rst
20:19:07 < Akrabat> mpinkston: that crossed my mind too
20:19:09 < mattcockayne> SpiffyJr: theres always RST & sphinx which is not a million miles away from markdown
20:19:12 < WalterTamboer> weierophinney: alrighty, I have nothing against docbook but since some people raised the topic...
20:19:15 < beberlei> pandoc i thinkg
20:19:16 < Akrabat> beberlei: there's also the ezDoc component
20:19:17 <weierophinney> beberlei: pandoc, perhaps?
20:19:19 <weierophinney> jinx
20:19:21 < Akrabat> or pandoc
20:19:23 < Akrabat> bah!
20:19:27 < beberlei> Akrabat, pandoc is much better than ezc docs
20:19:35 < mpinkston> I'd personally write more documentation if I could quickly jot it down and toss it in a repo for later organizing
20:19:35 < Akrabat> thought pandoc was haskell?
20:19:40 <weierophinney> WalterTamboer: right – I wouldn't mind an easier markup format, tbh.
20:19:42 < Akrabat> mpinkston: yes
20:19:49 < Freeaqingme> we would not discuss the format right now. But for large docss rst does have its issues, so does markdown (think of lack of unique consistent url's/identifiers). Still; out of scope
20:20:03 < Maks3w> I'm in favour off any language compatible (at least in part) with GitHub's preview
20:20:04 < beberlei> markdown and rst have the benefit that you can commit broken docs wiothout problem
20:20:04 < PadraicB> weierophinney, should be simple enough from Docbook to convert... Hard part is reformatting the raw data into whatever new format is chosen - if any
20:20:10 < Maks3w> and Fork and Edit methodology
20:20:14 < WalterTamboer> I think Open Office can actually save documents in a docbook format, there you have your editor
20:20:26 <weierophinney> PadraicB: right – that's really the issue.
20:20:32 < Xerkus> was moving docs out of main zf2 repo decided?
20:20:42 < EvanDotPro> WalterTamboer: i doubt that would use like <classname> and stuff properly though
20:20:47 <weierophinney> Xerkus: no, but that goes into hte next topic nicely.
20:21:01 <weierophinney> so... we have action items for the documentation heading.
20:21:08 <weierophinney> NEXT TOPIC, and LAST
20:21:15 <weierophinney> Which Components to Ship
20:21:28 <weierophinney> Akrabat: raised this on the ML: http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Which-components-to-ship-td4655245.html
20:21:31 < SpiffyJr> This one will be fun.
20:21:38 < Akrabat> as few as possible!
20:21:48 < mpinkston> wow, gonna have to take a minute to review that list..
20:21:54 <weierophinney> One point: a lot of components have docs, but need the docs to be udpated before we can build them. That's the update I gave at the beginning of last topic.
20:21:59 < Akrabat> mpinkston: you've had 10 days
20:22:00 < Freeaqingme> Akrabat, why as few as possible?
20:22:08 < mpinkston> lol, you got me
20:22:10 < Akrabat> Freeaqingme: cos we have to support them
20:22:13 < EvanDotPro> weierophinney: Zend\Mvc, Zend\ModuleManager, Zend\EventManager, Zend\Stdlib
20:22:13 <weierophinney> On top of that, I'd mention Xerkus 's point: docs may need to be moved to a separate repo.
20:22:18 < Akrabat> Freeaqingme: and we have to be confident of their quality
20:22:19 < EvanDotPro> weierophinney: oh and Zend\View
20:22:31 < SpiffyJr> EvanDotPro, forms...
20:22:33 < Akrabat> we're much better off shipping a smaller set for 2.0 and then adding 10 new components for 2.1
20:22:40 < Freeaqingme> Akrabat, webik so the question is: are they OK quality-wise, and can we support them?
20:22:44 <weierophinney> Akrabat: +1
20:22:46 < Akrabat> than shipping a few good ones and some less good ones
20:22:49 < PadraicB> Agreed with Akrabat
20:23:05 < Freeaqingme> weierophinney, I'm not sure we should discuss this here and now for each component?
20:23:06 < SpiffyJr> eww Zend\Registry
20:23:07 < Akrabat> someone asked me if Zend\Log was done. I didn't have a clue
20:23:09 < EvanDotPro> Akrabat: +1
20:23:10 < SpiffyJr> ./kill it
20:23:13 <weierophinney> Akrabat: yes, it is.
20:23:17 < mpinkston> I've always felt service-specific modules should be separated out
20:23:19 <weierophinney> was done for beta4
20:23:28 < Maks3w> http://framework.zend.com/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=43745438
20:23:30 < EvanDotPro> SpiffyJr: i was joking about just those couple components – it would be like the minimum for the skeleton to run.
20:23:38 <weierophinney> SpiffyJr: well, registry is used internally in some view helpers, we can't just kill it right now.
20:23:48 < SpiffyJr> With the usage of packages/git we could easily have a slim & trim "Core" package
20:23:49 < DASPRiD> yes we can
20:23:52 < SpiffyJr> And then extensions
20:23:54 < Xerkus> also we might want to reorganize docs to ship relevant parts with components being installed
20:24:03 <weierophinney> So, wait, stop everyone...
20:24:06 <weierophinney> FIRST THINGS FIRST
20:24:15 < Akrabat> some stuff still relies on Zend\translator for instance too
20:24:19 <weierophinney> As we decide which ones to weed out, the question is: where do they go
20:24:30 <weierophinney> Does each component get its own repo at that point?
20:24:37 < DASPRiD> Akrabat, i thought we stripped it out everywhere?
20:24:39 <weierophinney> or do we create one repo for "not shipped" components?
20:24:46 <weierophinney> DASPRiD: not yet we haven't.
20:25:08 < mabe_> weierophinney: one repo for each group of not shipped component
20:25:10 < EvanDotPro> weierophinney: we could just delete them... they'll always be in the history.
20:25:10 < PadraicB> weierophinney, separate repos are cheap - it's git
20:25:16 < SpiffyJr> lol EvanDotPro
20:25:16 < Akrabat> have to admit, that I'd quite like separate repositories for every component
20:25:17 < EvanDotPro> delete them for now*
20:25:18 < PadraicB> LOL
20:25:20 < beberlei> uh ship vs having in the repository is something entirely different
20:25:23 < mpinkston> +1 to that. It'd be easier to find maintainers that way too
20:25:27 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro: makes it harder to find them to improve them, though.
20:25:30 < prolic> a not shipped repo would be good, so things are grouped together, perhabs they even have dependencies on each other
20:25:38 < beberlei> seperate repositories for components is a mess
20:25:42 < EvanDotPro> weierophinney: meh... i'll be around for git help :-p
20:25:49 < WalterTamboer> beberlei: +1
20:25:50 < beberlei> at least for components having lots of dependencies, its really ugly
20:25:51 < Akrabat> beberlei: funnily enough, was gonna ask you about that
20:25:54 < Freeaqingme> I'm with beberlei. -1 for separating each of them
20:25:56 < ocramius> -1 on having different repositories. Many PRs/code changes space over more and more pieces of code
20:26:01 < DASPRiD> i'd say have them all in one repository (a build script can make separate packages out of it)
20:26:03 < ocramius> tracking dependencies become a mess REAL quick
20:26:05 < WalterTamboer> There is a difference between deploying and keeping them in version control..
20:26:14 < mpinkston> if they are too interdependent, then maybe they need to be re-thought
20:26:28 < Akrabat> in that case, two repos: the current one for stable and a new one for zf2-unstable
20:26:30 < bjy> if we separate, it's simple to keep them together – just have a "wrapper" repo with the components as submodules
20:26:30 <weierophinney> ocramius, beberlei – that's the impression I've had from doctrine and symfony – good to get some confirmation on that.
20:26:33 < PadraicB> mpinkston: +1
20:26:47 < SpiffyJr> Since we're using composer I'd just like to be able to add "zendframework/core": "*" to my list and get a slim&trim basic mvc setup going
20:26:53 < beberlei> weierophinney, well the symfony components are autogenerated from the central repository
20:26:56 < Xerkus> -1 for separate repos
20:26:57 < cgmartin> -1 on separate repos
20:27:03 < SpiffyJr> Is that possible with just zip archives? Anyone know?
20:27:05 < ocramius> I think the same of docs. Having docs all together allows contributors enforced to document their stuff by "please do also that"
20:27:06 < beberlei> weierophinney, and the doctrine ones is sometimes problematic
20:27:07 < Freeaqingme> -1 on separate repos / components
20:27:07 < prolic> an unstable branch would be sufficient???
20:27:14 < DASPRiD> beberlei, yeah, sounds like the best solution
20:27:16 < Freeaqingme> for unstable we could simply use a branch, imho
20:27:18 < Maks3w> ocramius, I don't believe that
20:27:31 < ocramius> Maks3w: well, refusing prs takes a click
20:27:39 < Akrabat> Freeaqingme: so have two separate clones ?
20:27:40 < EvanDotPro> -1 on separate repos.. splitting tests and docs would be a pain too...
20:27:41 < beberlei> and we even had the idea to remove the subtree splits which are autogenerated from github, because people do pull requests against them
20:27:45 < beberlei> which is even more annoying
20:27:56 < Akrabat> beberlei: as Linus about that
20:28:00 < Akrabat> ask even
20:28:02 < Maks3w> prolic, I think that an unstable namespaces ZendUnstable\<component>
20:28:02 < Freeaqingme> Akrabat, or just switch branch?
20:28:11 <weierophinney> So, what I'm seeing is:
20:28:12 < Akrabat> Freeaqingme: you can't - you still need Zend\Mvc
20:28:27 <weierophinney> * separate repos seems obvious, except there are issues in practice
20:28:30 < Freeaqingme> Akrabat, you can ocassionally merge back the stable version into unstable?
20:28:38 < SpiffyJr> Freeaqingme, eww
20:28:40 < Akrabat> not whilst developing the unstable
20:28:47 <weierophinney> * A single separate repo makes sense,
20:28:53 <weierophinney> * as does having a separate branch.
20:28:55 < Maks3w> The problem is that in Git you merge commits not files
20:28:58 < SpiffyJr> Separate namespaces makes the most sense to me in a single branch
20:29:03 < SpiffyJr> Then you can still have dependencies
20:29:20 < SpiffyJr> But the "unstable" components are clearly labeled (also makes packaging via script easy)
20:29:20 < Freeaqingme> SpiffyJr, we had that with ZendX_: nobody used it
20:29:21 < Maks3w> you can't say, Git move Zend\<component> to branch XXX
20:29:41 < EvanDotPro> Freeaqingme: i used it!
20:29:52 < Freeaqingme> Maks3w, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/307579/how-do-i-copy-a-version-of-a-single-file-from-one-git-branch-to-another
20:29:52 < SpiffyJr> Freeaqingme, a few people did, but it wasn't core, so the majority did not (same idea as unstable)
20:30:08 < cgmartin> is a single separate repo only to solve packaging?
20:30:11 < mpinkston> almost like signed vs unsigned modules..
20:30:15 < Freeaqingme> I was exaggerating, but hardly anybody was (I have used it too, some times)
20:30:15 < EvanDotPro> Freeaqingme: jquery and the pntl_fork stuff
20:30:21 < Akrabat> the key thing about unstable is that they aren't to be used
20:30:26 < Maks3w> Freeaqingme, do da same with directories and tell me the same
20:30:30 < WalterTamboer> weierophinney: I can't follow this anymore...
20:30:38 < Akrabat> as released & supported ZF components
20:30:40 <weierophinney> Freeaqingme: you lose history if you do that, though (the SO link you did)
20:30:58 <weierophinney> cgmartin: no, it's more to solve identifying what's stable and what is not
20:31:07 < Akrabat> the unstable ones need to be worked on to become released (or deleted)
20:31:30 < SpiffyJr> That's why I like the namespace idea. Keeps history intact. You don't have dependency issues across branches.
20:31:36 < SpiffyJr> And the separation is clearly marked.
20:31:36 < EvanDotPro> i say branch or delete code we're not maintaining.
20:31:39 < Akrabat> if we do the branch thing, then I think we move everything over and then justify each one that moved back to the master
20:31:42 < Maks3w> +1 for namespaces
20:31:53 < Akrabat> definitely -1 for namespaces
20:32:07 < EvanDotPro> -1 for separate namespaces... if an unstable component goes stable, you have a bunch of references/imports to update.
20:32:10 < Akrabat> right old pain to promote
20:32:11 <weierophinney> having changed namespaces within the repo a few times, it's a definite PITA, I'm -1 there.
20:32:30 <weierophinney> So, what's the consensus? Do we have one?
20:32:34 < Freeaqingme> wait
20:32:37 < WalterTamboer> I still don't understand why the code needs to be seperated in the repo.. What does that have to do with deployment?
20:32:43 < Akrabat> I think the branch should be called unsupported
20:32:46 < Freeaqingme> with the DI stuff, can we alias stuff when switching namespaces?
20:32:54 < Maks3w> EvanDotPro, Seriously? s#Zend\Unstable\Component#Zend\Component
20:32:59 <weierophinney> WalterTamboer has a good point folks
20:33:10 < cgmartin> what issues are there for having a "unstable" branch and master (stable/deleted components)
20:33:10 < mattcockayne> just wanna clarify something i may have missed.. .are we suggesting 1 branch with all "unstable" components or on branch for each "unstable" component
20:33:12 < Akrabat> WalterTamboer: cos it's nearly impossible to work out what which components are which and what state they are in
20:33:15 < EvanDotPro> imo having unsupported code in master is confusing – it doesn't imply at all that it's not unmaintained or out of date.
20:33:24 < Akrabat> I'm +1 with EvanDotPro
20:33:36 < bjy> EvanDotPro: +1
20:33:38 < SpiffyJr> If you're not cahnging the namespace then +1 EvanDotPro
20:33:39 < WalterTamboer> Akrabat: That why you normally have scripts to handle deployment
20:33:40 < Akrabat> master should contain what we support
20:33:42 < Maks3w> WalterTamboer, because beta things are not shipped in final releases
20:33:48 < Freeaqingme> I'm losing it now. Feels there are 3 discussions being voted for at once
20:33:51 < WalterTamboer> Maks3w: Still don't get it
20:33:52 < Akrabat> WalterTamboer: Composer consfuses things...
20:33:53 < mpinkston> isn't this why modules are now 1st class citizens? perhaps if it's not critical in every mvc app, it should be a module
20:33:57 < SpiffyJr> You need some sort of discrete separation.
20:34:11 < WalterTamboer> Akrabat: Ok... that's a valid point
20:34:12 < mpinkston> and modules could have 'vendor signatures'
20:34:14 < Freeaqingme> before doing any voting, can anyone clearly state what's voted for?
20:34:28 < Akrabat> mpinkston: I'm generally +1 on having ZF stable as small as we can reasonably make it
20:34:37 < SpiffyJr> Akrabat, mpinkston +1
20:34:44 <weierophinney> I'm going to pull back a moment. Several months ago, we discussed moving the various Zend\Service components into their own repos. But now it's sounding like we don't want that. I'm getting very confused.
20:34:51 < Maks3w> In resume what options are on the table?
20:35:10 < DASPRiD> weierophinney, i'm definetly for moving zend\service into their own repository
20:35:16 < DASPRiD> since they are unsupported
20:35:22 <weierophinney> options on the table:
20:35:25 < beberlei> zend service is something different imho
20:35:30 <weierophinney> * Move each unsupported into its own repo
20:35:40 < SpiffyJr> core + modules is sounding nice too mpinkston
20:35:42 <weierophinney> * Have a single repo for all unsupported components
20:35:44 < Maks3w> DASPRiD, +1 if the component will not have support don't have sense still having the code
20:35:49 <weierophinney> Folks, stop please
20:35:55 <weierophinney> I'm trying to summarize options.
20:36:01 <weierophinney> * Move each unsupported into its own repo
20:36:06 <weierophinney> * Have a single repo for all unsupported components
20:36:16 <weierophinney> * Have a separate branch for unsupported components
20:36:25 <weierophinney> * Have a separate branch per unsupported component
20:36:32 <weierophinney> * Delete unsupported components entirely
20:36:42 < Maks3w> * Do nothing
20:36:47 <weierophinney> * Do nothing, and leave it to the build script
20:36:58 <weierophinney> Is that all the options currently floating?
20:37:05 < SpiffyJr> You forgot mpinkston's
20:37:07 < DASPRiD> looks complete
20:37:07 < mpinkston> my 2cents = core is all MVC critical components. everything else is a module with an official "zend" signature stable or not
20:37:17 < mpinkston> other vendors can have their own sigs
20:37:22 < saschaH> who decide what "unsoported" means?
20:37:26 < SpiffyJr> <mpinkston> isn't this why modules are now 1st class citizens? perhaps if it's not critical in every mvc app, it should be a module
20:37:27 < beberlei> this is a deployment problem
20:37:27 < Akrabat> saschaH: me
20:37:30 < Freeaqingme> weierophinney, I also read 'have a separate namespace for unsupported components'
20:37:33 < saschaH> Akrabat: lol
20:37:34 < EvanDotPro> * Delete unsupported code, and bring it back if/when it becomes supported
20:37:45 < DASPRiD> saschaH, things like services are unsuported, since they need their own release cycle due to exterrnal api changes
20:37:49 < Akrabat> deleted code is lost code
20:37:57 < EvanDotPro> Akrabat: +1
20:38:01 <weierophinney> Freeaqingme: I took that one off the table as I've had to deal with it already.
20:38:05 < saschaH> DASPRiD: thx.
20:38:14 < Akrabat> that's a good point. Anything that isn't on the same release cycle as ZF-core should not be in the repo
20:38:18 < Freeaqingme> weierophinney, heh, right
20:38:22 < Maks3w> WalterTamboer, one reason more that is stable components have backward compatibility but unstable components don't, so you need to know what is the real status before start to develop an App for your client
20:38:27 < prolic> +1 for EvanDotPro, the code is not lost, at least we all know about them and will recover as soon as possible
20:38:28 < WalterTamboer> Akrabat: EvanDotPro: Create a branch of the current code base, delete unused code in the master. THan you would have a backup right?
20:38:30 < DASPRiD> EvanDotPro, i think you confuse "supported" and "maintained"
20:38:39 < cgmartin> I like #3 branch, and #5 delete
20:38:43 < mattcockayne> weierophinney: Might I suggest we put a vote on the Wiki for all the options voice and re-address at the next meeting
20:38:53 < Akrabat> prolic: we know about them now... we won't remember in 4 years
20:38:54 < Xerkus> +1 for separate branch per unsupported component, then it can be worked on, rebased on master and merged
20:39:02 < EvanDotPro> WalterTamboer: i'm fine with a branch, but it's not a "backup" you're not losing anything.
20:39:16 < WalterTamboer> EvanDotPro: Ok than I misunderstood
20:39:19 < prolic> Akrabat: so we make a wiki entry: our lost components, please help
20:39:26 < Akrabat> I'm much more interested in polishing what we are shipping for 2.0
20:39:33 < Akrabat> i want that list and that list only in master
20:39:38 < Maks3w> I think that we can find a trick to maintain the history of the file like the subtrees
20:39:41 < Akrabat> the rest is a bikeshed to me
20:39:41 < WalterTamboer> Maks3w: I see. I would say, master is always in development so you can never say that it is stable. You pick a moment where you make it stable, tag it and start the process over again.
20:39:45 < Maks3w> when is moving between branches
20:39:47 < beberlei> a branch is messy
20:39:55 < EvanDotPro> having a branch would help us not to forget..
20:39:58 < beberlei> how to keep the code compatible with the core?
20:40:01 <weierophinney> I like Xerkus's suggestion – it's relatively easy to fork a branch, rebase off of master, and work from there. You also then have the rest of the framework available, making testing easy.
20:40:10 < Maks3w> also you need rebase the branch all the time
20:40:20 < Akrabat> Maks3w: is that hard?
20:40:21 < beberlei> yeah, rebasing the master onto the "trash" branch
20:40:30 < Freeaqingme> If a component has been unmaintained for a while, we could move it to a branch called graveyard. However, the moment we stop maintaining it I'd opt for simply not packaging it. That allows for people to easily catch up developing it once they discover it's missing
20:40:36 < SpiffyJr> Akrabat, in theory no.
20:40:41 < EvanDotPro> Maks3w: no, we'd probably have to contend with merge commits and not rebase.
20:40:46 < Maks3w> Akrabat, no, if nothing touch something from the stable components
20:41:13 < DASPRiD> the problem with service components was, is that they need their own release cycle, thus imho they don't belong into the core repository
20:41:18 < Akrabat> so , we're still no closer to actually deciding what we want to ship
20:41:20 < Freeaqingme> weierophinney, agreed. But then I would put those branches in a separate repo, just to keep oversight over time
20:41:20 < Xerkus> and if component dropped completely - just delete its branch
20:41:34 < Akrabat> DASPRiD: +1 service to separate repositories
20:41:38 < Akrabat> that's agreed I thought?
20:41:42 < DASPRiD> i thought so
20:41:45 <weierophinney> kk, obviously this arena needs more discussion.
20:41:59 < DASPRiD> discussion is the reason why we are here
20:42:01 <weierophinney> Let's move to the core question here, which Akrabat keeps asking: what do we ship?
20:42:02 < WalterTamboer> weierophinney: This is such a big change which in my opinion needs more thinking before a decision can be made... Is it an idea if someone creates a page on the wiki where all cons and pros are listed?
20:42:12 < Xerkus> weierophinney: we decided we move services out into it's own repo to keep it's own release cycle iirc
20:42:16 <weierophinney> WalterTamboer: yes, that's my suggestion.
20:42:17 < Freeaqingme> weierophinney, mind providing a little more context?
20:42:30 <weierophinney> Freeaqingme: wzend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Which-components-to-ship-td4655245.html
20:42:32 < Akrabat> My general idea for choose what to ship was that it should have two committed maintainers
20:42:50 < mpinkston> what ships for zf2 shouldn't be that tough a question.. how it ships seems to be the problem
20:43:00 < Akrabat> if we cant' find two people willing to patch and merge PRs then we shouldn't commit to it
20:43:07 < SpiffyJr> Akrabat, my vote is for whatever makes the skeleton app run + a few others (forms, db, and maybe navigation).
20:43:12 <weierophinney> mpinkston: there's a lot of cruft in that list, tbh
20:43:30 < cgmartin> SpiffyJr: +1
20:43:30 < mpinkston> weierophinney: 'tis true that
20:43:32 < Akrabat> SpiffyJr: -navigation, +i18n maybe
20:43:48 < Maks3w> Akrabat, weierophinney -1 to have a minium of maintainers
20:43:57 < Akrabat> shrug it's much easier to start the list by finding out what we can actually maintain going forward
20:44:02 < Freeaqingme> webik, there's 50+ components in there. I'd rather have someone write a specific proposal, of which we can then discuss details
20:44:12 < Xerkus> SpiffyJr: remove zend\db it is not used in skeleton)
20:44:14 < Freeaqingme> * weierophinney ^^
20:44:21 < Maks3w> you can't quarantee volunteers that for the live cycle of the framework
20:44:33 < SpiffyJr> Xerkus, yes, but I think providing a db implementation out of the box is probably warranted?
20:44:34 < DASPRiD> Xerkus, lol
20:44:40 < Akrabat> Maks3w: no - but if we can't find anyone now...
20:44:48 < Akrabat> why do you think we'll suddenly find people later?
20:44:52 < EvanDotPro> Xerkus is right, i think we've already decided and voted on what to do with the service components, this should only be about the other unmaintained stuff.
20:44:53 < Maks3w> Now and the next week?
20:45:07 <weierophinney> Akrabat: well, the argument against that is that with git, we're getting a lot more folks coming in and providing fixes.
20:45:21 < DASPRiD> EvanDotPro, i think we already voted on unmaintained stuff as well earlier (removal)
20:45:21 <weierophinney> people outside the subset of developers in this room
20:45:23 < Akrabat> weierophinney: may be, but someone needs to check them
20:45:32 < SpiffyJr> Has anyone sat down and figured out what is needed to run the skeleton app?
20:45:33 <weierophinney> Akrabat: fair enough
20:45:45 < Akrabat> I won't merge a i18n PR for instance
20:45:51 < DASPRiD> Akrabat, heh
20:45:56 < Maks3w> Anyway could be usefull have a list of how many components are unstable
20:46:01 < Freeaqingme> this discussion is pointless, sorry
20:46:06 < Maks3w> Maybe we are talking of two or five
20:46:07 < Akrabat> Maks3w: most of them
20:46:10 < Maks3w> and its not a big deal
20:47:06 < Xerkus> Akrabat: then i think they must have at least one person per component who can review PRs
20:47:13 <weierophinney> Akrabat: I wouldn't say most components are unstable at this point. As you note, 61 are currently tested on travis out of 86 – we simply need to identify those other 25 and determine if they're needed or can be tossed.
20:47:18 < saschaH> again me, who and how decide what parts are unstable
20:47:21 < Akrabat> Xerkus: that's what I said
20:47:44 < Maks3w> weierophinney, How many of that are Services?
20:47:45 <weierophinney> Akrabat: and a number of those not tested can't be tested on travis, due to needing API credentials (a vote for moving those into separate repos, really)
20:47:54 < Akrabat> weierophinney: exactly
20:48:01 <weierophinney> Maks3w: bulk of those are services.
20:48:01 < Xerkus> Akrabat: vs you 2 dedicated maintainers
20:48:12 < Maks3w> weierophinney, I only have 7 components in the blacklist
20:48:16 < Maks3w> so the rest are tested
20:48:23 < Akrabat> saschaH: My view is that stable == able to be maintained and documented
20:48:34 < Maks3w> Amf, Date, Dojo, Queue, Test, Wildfire
20:48:45 < mpinkston> looks like this needs one of those voting pages broken down by component
20:48:49 <weierophinney> The ones I know are unstable and likely should be removed/marked unstable/whatever are Queue, GData, Wildfire, and possibly Debug.
20:49:02 < Akrabat> Maks3w: Search, Pdf, Registry, Progressbar, Debug, queue, openid...
20:49:11 <weierophinney> AMF belongs on that list, too. Dojo is a harder one – either needs to be dropped or pushed to 2.1
20:49:17 < WalterTamboer> mpinkston: I was just typing that
20:49:38 < mpinkston>
20:49:48 <weierophinney> So, Akrabat – I suggest we create a google form with a yea/nay vote for each, noting testing status for each, and post that to the list?
20:49:54 < Xerkus> i'm for moving dojo to ZfcDojo
20:49:54 < mpinkston> personally, I'm going to try to make paginator obsolete with something else, but for now it seems a little behind
20:49:59 < saschaH> Akrabat: so with the last topic we have no stable component?
20:50:03 < Xerkus> as module
20:50:07 < prolic> dojo in zf wouldn't be sufficient for nicer dojo integration, imho we need a module and a dojo module is already there i guess, don't know how good it is
20:50:08 < mpinkston> Xerkus: +1!
20:50:15 < Akrabat> weierophinney: I agree. I would also list who's willing to maintain
20:50:23 < Freeaqingme> weierophinney, agreed
20:50:26 < Akrabat> though we can do other way around
20:50:36 <weierophinney> Xerkus, mpinkston, prolic – that makes sense
20:50:38 < Akrabat> if community want a component, then someone should be willing to step up
20:50:53 < Maks3w> I think that any component with external dependencies should be in a different repository with differente live cycles
20:51:01 <weierophinney> So, last bit then: still move services to independent repos?
20:51:03 < Akrabat> if not, I don't care what the communit wants
20:51:08 < Akrabat> weierophinney: yes
20:51:13 < Freeaqingme> pros/cons?
20:51:21 <weierophinney> that makes the list shorter, definitely
20:51:30 < Freeaqingme> repos != distribution imho
20:51:32 < prolic> i could probably help refactoring zend\queue in 1-2 months
20:51:34 < Akrabat> Freeaqingme: As DASPRiD service are on different release cycles
20:51:41 <weierophinney> prolic: we'll target it for 2.1 then.
20:51:42 < Maks3w> +1 for move Services and other similar components, GData, Cloud, etc
20:51:43 < mpinkston> services thing +1
20:51:43 < prolic> i mean to start with it
20:51:47 < Freeaqingme> so even if we ship them separately, I dont see why they have to be in a separate repo
20:51:56 < SpiffyJr> My vote is for: https://gist.github.com/bce93b156f5bd011067a
20:51:56 < Akrabat> so service\Amazon may need an update between 2.0 and 2.1 due to changes at their end
20:52:08 <weierophinney> Freeaqingme: so that they don't get tagged with the same version.
20:52:09 < SpiffyJr>
20:52:19 < mpinkston> I guess the only issue with repos is merge privileges right?
20:52:32 <weierophinney> Freeaqingme: we can have each of those repos indicate what versions of ZF they work with, but they'd have their own versioning.
20:52:33 < Akrabat> far far better that the service components follow their own release cycles
20:52:36 < Maks3w> mpinkston, no, its the PR sync
20:52:40 < cgmartin> identify for each? 1) which are core/required, 2) which to be moved, 3) which to be removed altogether
20:52:45 <weierophinney> mpinkston: we can define additional teams for those.
20:52:47 < mpinkston> ahyes
20:52:54 < mpinkston> ok got it
20:53:08 <weierophinney> kk, so, action items (please don't interrupt)
20:53:19 <weierophinney> * Akrabat and myself to create a google form for voting on each individual component
20:53:19 < Maks3w> Here was a classification http://framework.zend.com/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=43745438
20:53:40 <weierophinney> * Move services (including Gdata, likely Cloud) into separate repos, to version separately
20:54:01 <weierophinney> * Open a wiki page identifying options for dealing with unstable components, and discuss (and later vote)
20:54:11 <weierophinney> does that sound right?
20:54:15 < prolic> agree
20:54:15 < Freeaqingme> #2 is all services in 1 repo right?
20:54:16 < DASPRiD> +
20:54:21 < saschaH> yep
20:54:24 <weierophinney> Freeaqingme: no, repo per service.
20:54:45 < Maks3w> Move any component that use external apis
20:54:48 < Akrabat> that maches my action list
20:54:49 < Freeaqingme> I see a maintenance hell coming up
20:54:50 <weierophinney> Freeaqingme: as each service has its own timeline
20:55:11 <weierophinney> Freeaqingme: we have one already. Our service components often get out of date with official apis
20:55:13 < Akrabat> I'd love to see separate teams per service component
20:55:14 < Freeaqingme> weierophinney, what's wrong with releasing all service components alltogether on a biweekly schedule?
20:55:34 < prolic> agree with Freeaqingme
20:55:35 < Akrabat> it'd be great to have people who actually use the service be responsible for it and drive it forward
20:55:39 < Maks3w> Freeaqingme, each compony has his own livecycles
20:55:55 < Maks3w> Freeaqingme, for example GitHub v2 will dissapear
20:55:55 < SpiffyJr> Freeaqingme, if the work is done the day after an API change why force everyone for that service to wait two weeks?
20:55:57 < Akrabat> Freeaqingme: realistically, most people only use one or two service components
20:55:58 <weierophinney> Freeaqingme: it makes more sense for the team working on the service component to issue a release when it's ready.
20:56:00 < Freeaqingme> Maks3w, so? When it's stable they merge it to the release branch, and then it will be released in the next release?
20:56:02 < Maks3w> and you cannot wait for a SF release
20:56:02 < prolic> it doesn't matter if my Zend\Cloud 12.0 has no difference to 4.0
20:56:08 < Akrabat> so why distribute together ?
20:56:10 < Maks3w> ZF release to do that
20:56:18 <weierophinney> Freeaqingme: plus, with composer, we wouldn't even need to package – just tag and it's ready
20:56:19 < Maks3w> because the release are each 6 months
20:56:35 < Maks3w> (for example)
20:56:37 < Akrabat> weierophinney: +1
20:57:06 < mpinkston> composer not my fav, but it certainly works (I just need to learn it better). so +1
20:57:10 < cgmartin> weierophinney: +1 on your action items
20:57:12 < Freeaqingme> still, you loose oversight. You loose the 'zf standard'. Different teams will pick up different tactics fairly soon
20:57:24 < Freeaqingme> so I'm -1
20:57:29 < Akrabat> we have that now anyway
20:57:37 < Xerkus> yeah, i somewhat agree on single services repo
20:57:47 < Maks3w> ZF should be only core and separated components and this components with different live cycles
20:57:54 < Freeaqingme> Akrabat, but yet now everybody get to see 1 pull request backlog and just ocassionally look what's going on, and that will be lost
20:57:56 < Akrabat> noone who works on Zend_Service_Amazon compares their work to Zend_Service_Simpy
20:58:13 <weierophinney> kk, let's call it a day, folks. Lots of action items. I'll get the SM stuff done by end of week so it can be in beta5


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Recent Posts
October 14, 2011
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Yenly Thach
I was born in a refugee camp in Thailand where I lived until I was eight years old before I immigrated to America. From a child refugee to a 2009-10 Boren Fellow, Kendra Chiota-Payne Global Study recipient; and returned Peace Corps Volunteer in Costa Rica 2005-07. This past winter, I received my Master's degree from UC Santa Barbara in Global and International Studies. I advocates for refugees' rights and human rights' issues globally. I love to go to the beach, practice yoga, do Pilates, blog, and write. I am passionate about learning new cultures, languages, traveling to developing countries and helping those who truly need it.


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Attending a PPT
Find a Conversation
|Fri, 04-01-2011 - 6:54pm
At what age do you start including the child in the planning process? My aspie is in 7th grade and his home district (he attends a magnet school in another district) has invited him to the PPT in May. First, the home district has never even met him. The last year he was in the home district he was still in elementary school and he now "belongs" to the junior high although he has never gone to school there. Secondly, from a maturity level he is much "younger" than his chronological age. He also very fragile emotionally, i.e.. Very quick to cry when anxious or upset and I'm not sure how he would handle a frank discussion about his weaknesses. I guess my gut reaction is that high school would be a more appropriate time for him to be involved in the process and the conversations might be very different with him in the room. Another concern I have is that most of his IEP was ignored in the first and second marking period and I'm not sure that
|Sat, 04-02-2011 - 3:58pm
We have never had our 13 year old attend IEP meetings, as our relationship with the home district is also difficult and the meetings are always held with yet another set of new staff people who have barely read over the material and half the meeting is spent getting everyone up to speed.


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Brennan Haselton,
WASHINGTON -- Bourbon barrels, wine barrels and a slew of positive bacteria. How's that for a recipe?
WTOP's Brennan Haselton is joined by Neighborhood Restaurant Group Beer Director and James Beard Award nominee Greg Engert to talk about Allagash Merveilleux for the latest edition of WTOP's Beer of the Week.
Follow Brennan, Beer of the Week and WTOP on Twitter.
(Copyright 2013 by WTOP. All Rights Reserved.)


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Taking out your insurance policy can give you cause to reflect on the important people in your life, and may make you reconsider the relationships that are valuable to you, and whether you need to do anything to keep those relationships sustained and healthy. When selecting your beneficiaries, take some time to think about why those people are so important to you, and why you wish to help them. Would they do the same for you if the tables were turned? If not, you may need to take some steps to strengthen your relationship between you and these individuals.
If your partner is your sole beneficiary, ensure that they know how much they mean to you. Similarly, if you are making special efforts to provide for your children or for a family member such as a parent or another individual, communicate to these people why you are doing so, and for what purpose.
Investing in a South Carolina life insurance policy can help you reflect on the important things in life, and to ensure that the valued individuals in your life know why you consider them so.


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COLUMBIA — Wallace Gordon Hartley of Columbia died Saturday, April 20, 2013, at his home in Columbia. He was 86.
Wallace Gordon Hartley, July 5, 1926 — April 20, 2013, of Columbia
Monday, April 22, 2013 | 4:30 p.m. CDT; updated 12:46 p.m. CDT, Friday, April 26, 2013
To read the full article, please sign up or login.
Get full access to the Columbia Missourian on your computer, phone, and tablet for just $5.95 per month.
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* Your news. Your device. Your time.
If you'd like to read more about the value of being a member, read this column from the Missourian's executive editor, Tom Warhover.


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Stay up to date with Sully, Tony, Robbie and Shannon by signing up to The Awakening, the official newsletter for Godsmack. Regular updates will be sent straight to your inbox, giving you the latest on album releases, tour dates, ticket sales and more.
All fields must be completed in order to join the mailing list.
Mailing List
On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 8:07 AM,
Now that's a bunch of handsome men!


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Easy-Fit Fly Screen Kit
Stop flying insects in their tracks!
The beauty of this cut-to-size screen is that it's so easy to fit, making your room fly-proof in seconds.
The water-resistant, uPVC coated, fibreglass mesh can be put up and removed at will, as the adhesive hook & loop tape (incl.) fixes to your window frames and holds the screen in place.
Cat Ref: SKU 6807
1m x 2m (40" x 80") - approximately enough for two 1m sq. windows.
Temporarily unavailable
The Easy-Fit Fly Screen Kit will be unavailable until 09 02 2015.
Customer Reviews - Easy-Fit Fly Screen Kit
Showing 3 of 21 reviews See all reviews
Best buy of the summer" by Debbie
What a life saver this is! I have this on my bedroom window, wide open and didnt get bit all last summer! Easily fitted and hardley noticable. I have recommended this product to many friends who have a tendency to be a feeding ground for mosquitos etc
Mixed feelings" by Mrs Roberts
I've got mixed feelings about this product.
When it stays in place it is very effective but I've found that quite often especially if it's windy it pops off the window.
The way it's fixed to the window is by sandwiching the mesh between special hook and loop tape, which doesn't make for a very strong hold.
I'm not sure how to rate this product. I wouldn't send it back but I don't think I'd recommend it either.
A note from the team: I�m sorry that on this occasion the product wasn�t as expected. We�ll be in touch shortly.
Fly Screen" by Heather Melton
Have been using these screens over the past 4 years and they are exceptionally good. Keep out all insects during the night, and especially wasps during the day.
Can we also suggest
- Hangaway
- £28.99
- Gazebo zipped side panel
- £9.99
- Flower Power Fruit Vase
- £14.99


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Smooth Wainscoting Panels 36" D x 96" W
Swanstone is a reinforced solid surface. Color and texture run all the way through and cannot wear away. Choose from a wide variety of easy to clean colors for your kitchen and bath. Products include kitchen sinks, bath and shower walls, shower floors, vanity tops and bowls. And, products made of Swanstone are covered by our limited lifetime warranty.
Swanstone protective wall coverings are perfect for commercial spaces and high-traffic, high-pressure areas like shipping rooms, hallways, and elevator interiors.
Swanstone SS-3696-SK Features:
- Reinforced solid surface means color and texture run all the way through and cannot wear away
- Resistant to cracks, gouges, and dings
- Save time, money, and hassle by eliminating wall damage caused by gurneys, mail bins, and hand trucks
- Durable and easy to clean
- Renewable surface which can be repaired if necessary
- Compression molding means superior durability
Additional Swanstone Links
- View Manufacturer Warranty
- Shop All Swanstone Products
- Shop All Swanstone Shower Walls Collection Products
Our SKU: Swanstone SS-3696-SK
This product is listed under the following manufacturer number(s):
- Swanstone SS03696SK.123
- Swanstone SS03696SK.046
Almond Galaxy
- Swanstone SS03696SK.035
Arctic Granite
- Swanstone SS03696SK.168
Babys Breath
- Swanstone SS03696SK.091
- Swanstone SS03696SK.040
Bermuda Sand
- Swanstone SS03696SK.018
- Swanstone SS03696SK.037
- Swanstone SS03696SK.124
- Swanstone SS03696SK.169
Caraway Seed
- Swanstone SS03696SK.126
Cloud Bone
- Swanstone SS03696SK.125
Cloud White
- Swanstone SS03696SK.063
- Swanstone SS03696SK.121
- Swanstone SS03696SK.042
Gray Granite
- Swanstone SS-3696-SK095
Green Pasture
- Swanstone SS03696SK.071
Indian Grass
- Swanstone SS-3696-SK061
- Swanstone SS03696SK.012
Night Sky
- Swanstone SS03696SK.072
- Swanstone SS03696SK.122
- Swanstone SS-3696-SK064
Purple Sage
- Swanstone SS-3696-SK074
- Swanstone SS03696SK.094
- Swanstone SS-3696-SK056
Tahiti Blue
- Swanstone SS03696SK.050
Tahiti Desert
- Swanstone SS-3696-SK057
Tahiti Evergreen
- Swanstone SS03696SK.053
Tahiti Gray
- Swanstone SS03696SK.059
Tahiti Ivory
- Swanstone SS03696SK.058
Tahiti Matrix
- Swanstone SS-3696-SK052
Tahiti Rose
- Swanstone SS03696SK.051
Tahiti Sand
- Swanstone SS03696SK.055
Tahiti Terra
- Swanstone SS03696SK.011
Tahiti White
- Swanstone SS03696SK.010
- Swanstone SS-3696-SK022
Wild Indigo
- Swanstone SS03696SK.060
Winter Wheat
*Denotes a finish or option that has been discontinued
Manufacturer Resources
Installation Resource Center
Whether you are installing the product yourself or hiring a professional, our installation Resource Center has everything you need to get your project done. Visit the Installation Resource Center to get started.


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Bureau of Labor Statistics: www.bls.gov/oco/
This site is built around something known as an Occupational Outlook Handbook, and it is a terrific resource for finding a plethora of career information. Look at it as a sort of dictionary that if one takes the times to scroll through, one might find intense job descriptions, everything from the history of a company, the work environment, payment, and a variety of other areas. Further, it has careers from all over the map, including healthcare, farming, and the arts.
My College Guide: www.mycollegeguide.org/
This site is a survival guide for newly incoming college/university students. Whatever the qualm may be, this site likely has at least a paragraph or two on it. Are you worried about how you're going to pay for school? What is college life like? What major is right for me? All of these questions can be answered here, and if your answers aren't readily available, then you may "ask the guru."
Road Trip!: www.roadtripnation.org
This organization creates meaningful, personal growth experiences that allow students to feel hopeful about the future instead of panicked. It aspires to help young adults connect what they are learning to the real world. Students are sent on road trips all over the U.S., and along the way are asked to create their own personal project as well as interview people that interest them in their creative fields. Road Trip Nation can bring a lot of opportunity to young adults, and lets them ask the questions they want to ask about life.
Career Rookie: www.careerrookie.com
This is site is mildly more basic, but nonetheless, it is to the point and still wishes to contribute to your dream career. It provides a search engine that enables one to find internships, part-time jobs, and entry-level jobs. Post your resume and further your resources here!
"Jobs in Great Places": www.Coolworks.com
This is a unique company as well as a tight niche. If you desire working outdoors and finding meaning in a more natural way then I would give this a read. They cater to those jobs in national parks, ranches, camps, ski resorts, and jobs on the water as CoolWorks has portrayed it. They are located on Yellowstone River, and offer summer jobs, seasonal market jobs, as well a volunteer jobs.
College Express: www.careersandcolleges.com
Once signed up for a free membership, folks are welcome to a variety of scholarship listings as well as have access to 700 college lists, articles, blogs, and more importantly advice from professionals. They also entice students with a chance to win a 10,000 dollar scholarship upon joining! Hey, that doesn't sound too bad.
College Board: www.collegeboard.com
College Board has dedicated itself to providing the user with three essential tools: college readiness, college connections & success, and advocacy. They deliver the user with services such as PSAT classes as well as Advanced Placement curricula. More than anything College Board has its mind set on aiding those students & young souls who have yet to cross over into the world of higher education.
The News: www.usnews.com
Not enough young adults watch the news, and this site makes it seem a bit more manageable to scroll through a broadcast. This keeps the viewer up-to-date on topics such as law, health, education, and opinion articles. The easy layout allows for the user to travel comfortably amongst the selections of interesting topics.
DYA: http://www.digitalyouthacademy.com/
Sites such as this one are tough to find because of the bona fide passion that rings deep with this innovative company. They have committed to honing in on skills built for this proud, technologically savvy generation.
World Education University: http://www.theweu.com/
Revolution Prep: https://www.revolutionprep.com/
Best Online Education: http://www.lifehack.org/articles/money/25-killer-sites-for-free-online-education.html?utm_content=buffer01e14&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


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Close to Live Current Map of Great Lakes
A new map from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration makes it possible to visualize the speed and direction of the Great Lakes' currents right from your computer.
The swirling animation was created by the Great Lakes Environmental Research Laboratory based on technology used to create a map of the U.S. showing wind conditions.
APB covered that cool wind map back in March.
by Adena Schutzberg on 10/08 at 05:21 AM | Comments |


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Initiatives list
HOME > CSI > Projects > Initiatives list
Initiatives list
Environmental Initiatives
Umfolozi teamed up with The Bay Stationers and assisted with their fantastic project Santa Shoe Boxes.
Rio sponsors the Strategic Poultry Farming Co-operative
The Strategic Poultry Farming Co-operative is an enterprise development project, to which Rio has funded R246,404 towards the establishment of a chicken hatchery under the management of Malachi Solomons, a local entrepreneur. The community of...
Mmabatho Palms builds a borehole for Lapa La Bothle
Water shortages plagued Mafikeng during 2013, causing even more distress to the less fortunate. One of Mmabatho Palms' ongoing projects is that of providing assistance to the Lapa La Bothle old-age home which houses 73 pensioners, of whom 23 are...
Graceland donates to SAPS TRAUMA CENTER
Graceland recently donated some hotel amenities to the SAPS Trauma and crisis center in Secunda which deals with victims affected by crime, domestic violence and accidents.
Umfolozi supports Endomeni Cat Rehabilitation Centre
The team at Umfolozi once again went out into our community to support the Endomeni Cat Rehabilitation Centre to hand over a donation of R10,000 to sponsor a Cheetah for Life.


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Keep your home comfortable and cool all year round with service from our EPA and NATE certified team. Call us today if you need a new AC or air conditioning repair.
Los Angeles, CA Air Conditioning, Heating, Electrical and Solar Services by Kilowatt
Does your AC struggle to keep your Los Angeles, CA home comfortable? Are you in the market for a new water heater? Would you like to make your commercial space more energy efficient? At Kilowatt, we are your one–stop contractor for a wide range of products and services, including air conditioning, heating, solar HVAC and electricity, indoor air quality, electrical, whole house generators, water heaters, and commercial services. We are fully certified, licensed, bonded and insured, and our HVAC technicians and electricians are available 24/7 to take your service call. We have been in business since 1990, and we stand behind our work with a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Don't hesitate to call on our professionals today.
The Los Angeles, CA air conditioning, heating, and electrical at Kilowatt offer quality repair, installation and other services throughout the LA area.
Air Conditioning
Staying cool during the summer months is crucial to ensuring that your family remains comfortable no matter how hot it gets outside. We offer a number of high quality air conditioners in Los Angeles for installation in your home, including central air units, ductless mini splits, heat pumps, and solar air conditioners, as well as thermostats and zone control systems. Our techs are also available to repair your AC in the event that it breaks down or it needs a professional tune–up. If you are in need of professional air conditioning services in Los Angeles, call Kilowatt.
Despite our area's reputation as a bastion of hot weather and sunny days, residents know that having a reliable heater is important to make it through the winter months. We offer a number of heating services throughout Los Angeles to our customers, including gas and electric furnaces, radiant systems, ductless heating as well as solar heating options for those want the ultimate in energy efficiency. Heating repair and maintenance are always available.
Indoor Air Quality
While you may often think to adjust the thermostat when it becomes uncomfortable in your home, comfort is about much more than just temperature. You need to think about airborne contaminants and pollutants, as well as the humidity levels. We offer a diverse range of indoor air quality products and services in Los Angeles, from air filtration systems, air purifiers, humidifier, dehumidifiers, UV air purifiers, and energy recovery ventilators to duct sealing, duct cleaning and duct testing as well as insulation. We take your indoor air quality seriously.
Electrical Services
You rely on your electrical system every day to provide sufficient indoor and outdoor lighting, to power your stereo, televisions, computers and assorted electronic gadgets, as well as your HVAC system and water heater. Make sure you don't take it for granted. Our experienced professional Los Angeles electricians are standing by, ready to assist you with any electrical installation, replacement or repair needs that might arise in your home. From comprehensive electrical wiring and circuit breaker installation to troubleshooting your whole house generator, we have got you covered. Call Kilowatt for professional electrical services in Los Angeles.
Water Heaters
It's hard to imagine what domestic life would be like without a bountiful supply of hot water. But all that convenience and comfort comes down to the performance and efficiency of your water heater. Our techs offer a wide range of water heaters in Los Angeles for installation, including tank, tankless, hybrid, heat pump and solar water heaters. If you find that your water heater no longer functions correctly, then we can provide an excellent solution quickly with our installation services, and if you would like to keep your water heater in great working order, we can also regularly maintain it.
Solar Services
Considering the amount of sun that we enjoy here in the Los Angeles, CA area, it's hardly surprising that solar energy continues to attract more and more homeowners. We offer several solar energy products that can dramatically improve your home's energy efficiency, and some of your products may even pay for themselves. From solar air conditioning and heating systems, panels, and water heaters to lights, electricity, and attic fans, we can outfit your home to utilize this renewable energy source.
Commercial Services
We have been in business since 1990, and we can sympathize with our commercial customers. It's hard work to keep everything running smoothly, and it's all too important to surround yourself with good people and a sound infrastructure. Let us take care of the latter. We offer comprehensive commercial services in Los Angeles, including air conditioning, heating, indoor air quality, and electrical. We install, repair, maintain and replace quality equipment from leading manufacturers in the industry. Call Kilowatt today when you want the job done right.


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Well, Baywatch babe Pamela Anderson is the first to go. Everyone's relieved, right? Viewers, audience members, people who work on the show. Her partner, Tristan. Lord Mirrorballus. That big-ass chandelier. I can just sense a sigh of relief all-around, because frankly Pam was no All-Star. She clearly hadn't had enough time to practice dancing with her recent travel schedule, and her subsequent nerves made everything about her presence on the show uncomfortable to watch. It was almost like she was just dropping by to visit, awkwardly. A bit of a bizarre second attempt at mirrorball glory, but there's no need to dwell on it. This just means we'll see more of Tristan on Tuesday nights. Nothin' wrong with that.
Drew Lachey and Anna Tre-BUN-skaya somewhat surprisingly joined Pam and Tristan in the bottom two. The folks running the Twitter box made sure to pepper that thing with a hearty Drew bias with winning submissions such as "DREW PLEASE BE SAFE YOU ARE GORGEOUS #DWTS"
Bristol Palin ended up "in jeopardy" (which means nothing) with Drew and Pam, and her Twitter fans seemed even worse off than Drew's: "If Bristol & Mark go home in the first week, I may just lay in the floor and cry for a month." I can understand lying down and having a sob sesh for an hour, maybe a day, or yeah why not a month. But to embed yourself into the floor just to get that accomplished? That's some serious devotion going on.
Don't worry Bristol. IT'S NOT A TOOMAH.
Looks like Len forgot to attend the glowsticks tutorial for Pitbull's "Don't Stop the Party."
You'll get 'em next time, DANCMSTR!
When Justin Bieber began As Long As You Love Me," I had sort of a profound DWTS moment because he was flanked by all these giant silver Tetris pieces that turned out to be held by his backup dancers. These structures were, upon deeper thought, like facets of a mirrorball come to life! There's people in there. MIRRORBALL SILVER IS PEOPLE. It's peeeeeeeeeopllllllllllllle! Truly, this is so powerful. If the mirrorball symbolizes the show and the planet on which it takes place, then naturally its facets should be composed of its most sparkly constituents. Of course in this metaphor we'll have to shoo away those pesky Justin Bieber backup dancers, who are no match for Our Pros.
I earnestly complained to Twitter that Justin Bieber needs to stop attempting to make leather Hammer pants happen, because they are so not fetch.
But after a closer inspection, I realized Justin Bieber was wearing a leather Hammer ONESIE. Is that what the song's about, then? The Biebs can take the liberty of wearing the dumbest garment imaginable, as long as you love him? He could be starving, he could be homeless, he could be broke, but you'll never know for sure whether he's a billionaire or a bum as long as he keeps wearing his leather onesie with a dropped crotch? Now I understand the song.
NEXT: The Top 7 ("seh-vehhhhhn!") moments of the results show


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<< back to view complete listing for Cafe Mozart
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Students Teach Others Using Power Of Film
29 September 2011
New students will be taken on a step-by-step process of how to create their own unique web presences through the power of film, after a group of students and staff worked together to create a series of helpful film guides.
Students on Derby's Creative Expressive Therapies BA (Hons) degree programme have created a number of video training guides to show future students how they used PebblePad - an e-portfolio system - which gathers all of their work in various formats in one place, and can be sent around the world to apply for jobs or further study.
The students did so as part of a collaborative project led by Judie Taylor, Mental Health and Therapeutic Practice, with the University's Technology Enhanced Learning Team, Jon Walmsley (Media Adviser) and Charlie Davis (Learning Technology Adviser). The Team are part of the wider department for Learning Enhancement and Innovation (LEI).
The videos will guide new students through the process of creating an e-portfolio which goes towards their module Working Towards the Future.
The students involved in the film production have presented their work at a number of conferences including the Ninth ePIC International ePortfolio and Identity Conference and the Pebblegogy Conference 2011.
Third year BA (Hons) Creative Expressive Therapies student, Shevani Raichura, who presented at these conferences said: "With just one year left on my course I'm already starting to think about my future. Having an ePortfolio is going to help me get a job, possibly even overseas, because I will be able store evidence of my learning and then present it in a targeted way to employers - this would not be possible if it was all in paper format.
"I've even uploaded compressed music files into PebblePad; pieces that I had composed myself. These rich pieces of evidence could not be explained to my tutors in a written form very easily so it was good to be able to showcase the recordings alongside my reflection."
You can watch the films on the University's YouTube channel or by following the links below:
Video Guides
- Video 1: What is an e portfolio? www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZsfvBqBrcY
- Video 2: How To Guide: Publishing To The Gateway www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufps89y5TuQ
- Video 3: How To Guide: Uploading Content www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEqIHsI0qKc
- Video 4: How To Guide: Linking Assets www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElSeT8A_vcM
Student Experience
There are two videos with students talking about their experience of using PebblePad in the module:
Staff Guides
There are also two introductory staff guides featuring Charlie Davis.
- 'Things to consider before creating a webfolio': www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk7p5AfQbzA
- 'Creating a webfolio template in PebblePad and adding it to the gateway' www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLvRk4ivN6Q
For more information on the project contact Judie Taylor on email firstname.lastname@example.com


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Libby Author Event at BAA/FHS Library
posted July 9, 2013 3:50 PM
GSLIS Communications Assistant Alisa M. Libby visited the Boston Arts Academy/Fenway High School Library in May to talk with the students about writing. Libby read from her first novel, The Blood Confession, as part of Fenway High School's "Drop Everything and Read" program. The Blood Confession (Dutton Books, 2006) is now available in ebook format.


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OUTLaw is the law student group for students who identify as lesbian, bisexual, transgender, or intersex and their allies. Our mission is twofold: to promote a sense of community among lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex law students and to educate the W&L School of Law, University, and Lexington communities about the legal issues facing GLBTQ individuals.
In order to create a sense of community and a safe, welcoming environment for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex law students, OUTLaw puts on social events for our members, works on events with the undergraduate W&L GLBTQ Equality Initiative, and holds regular meetings. OUTLaw seeks to insure that the experience of every GLBTQ person and of their straight friends and allies at Washington and Lee University School of Law is a positive one.
OUTlaw's educational and informational mission takes a number of forms. OUTLaw sponsors speakers on specific issues of law facing GLBTQ people. We also co-sponsor debates and panels discussing legal issues that relate to the GLBTQ community. Finally, OUTLaw engages in informational campaigns and respectful, informative protests to increase awareness of the great obstacles facing GLBTQ individuals. All of these activities are presented to and are open to the law school, the University, and the Lexington community.
OUTLaw looks forward to continuing its mission in the future, and is open to participation and support from people of all different viewpoints, backgrounds, and walks of life as long as they support the dignity and equality of GLBTQ individuals.


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A goal without a plan is just a wish.Larry Elder
First, have a definite, clear practical idea; a goal, an objective. Second, have the necessary means to achieve your ends; wisdom, money, materials, and methods. Third, adjust all your means to that end.Aristotle
It must be borne in mind that the tragedy of life does not lie in not reaching your goal. The tragedy of life lies in having no goal to reach.Benjamin E. Mays
Some men give up their designs when they have almost reached the goal; While others, on the contrary, obtain a victory by exerting, at the last moment, more vigorous efforts than ever before.Herodotus
What you get by achieving your goals is not as important as what you become by achieving your goals.Zig Ziglar
The secret to productive goal setting is in establishing clearly defined goals, writing them down and then focusing on them several times a day with words, pictures and emotions as if we've already achieved them.Denis Waitley
When a goal matters enough to a person, that person will find a way to accomplish what at first seemed impossible.Nido Qubein
You must have an aim, a vision, a goal. For the man sailing through life with no destination or "port-of- call', every wind is the wrong wind.Tracy Brinkmann
Success is the progressive realization of predetermined, worthwhile goals.Paul J. Meyer
Whoever wants to reach a distant goal must take small steps.Saul Bellow
People are not lazy. They simply have important goals that is, goals that do not inspire them.Tony Robbins
Focusing your life solely on making a buck shows a certain poverty of ambition. It asks too little of yourself. Because it's only when you hitch your wagon to something larger than yourself that you realize your true potential.Barack Obama
You ain't gonna stop trying to get where you going until you reach it.Wiz Khalifa
Ambition is the manure of glory.Pietro Aretino
It is not possible to run a course aright when the goal itself has not been rightly placed.Francis Bacon
Ambition is not what a man would do, but what a man does, for ambition without action is fantasy.Bryant McGill
Do not let your grand ambitions stand in the way of small but meaningful accomplishments.Bryant McGill
A goal is a dream with a deadline.Napoleon Hill
Our goal is not to build a platform; it's to be cross all of them.Mark Zuckerberg
If your aims are lofty, your achievements are bound to be great.Shri Radhe Maa
To live without an aim is to wander in a wildernessShri Radhe Maa
Our nation, this generation, will lift the dark threat of violence from our people and our future. We will rally the world to this cause by our efforts, by our courage. We will not tire, we will not falter and we will not fail.George Walker Bush


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swimSyllabification: swim
Pronunciation: /swim /
Definition of swim in English:
verb (swims, swimming; past swam /swam/; past participle swum /swəm/)
1 [no object] Propel the body through water by using the limbs, or (in the case of a fish or other aquatic animal) by using fins, tail, or other bodily movement: they swam ashore Adrian taught her to swim breaststroke
More example sentences
- The aquatic animals can't swim in shallow water areas.
- There was a car on the bottom of a large body of water and fish were swimming around it.
- Fish swam by her body, curious and their fins tickled her legs.
bathe, take a dip, splash around;
float, tread water, paddle
1.1 [with object] Cross (a particular stretch of water) by swimming: she swam the Channel
More example sentences
- They are believed to be the first women's team from Africa to swim the famous stretch.
- Still, the final 100 meters should be swum strategically.
- Marcus Hooper, the youngest person to complete the swim, swam the channel in 1979 at age 12.
1.2Float on or at the surface of a liquid: bubbles swam on the surface
More example sentences
- My only complaint is the excessive amount of grease swimming on top of the cheese.
- I'm one of those people that think good chili should have at least a little grease swimming on top of it.
1.3 [with object] Cause to float or move across water: the Russians were able to swim their infantry carriers across
More example sentences
- I could put the rest of the headlamps one by one in my dry bag and swim them across.
- It would be impossible to round up all the stock and swim them across the turbulent Snake River.
- The boys would find the logs in the woods around the lake, cut them to the right sizes, and then swim them over to the raft and attach them.
2 [no object] Be immersed in or covered with liquid: mashed potatoes swimming in gravy
More example sentences
- It was swimming in a rich, wine-based sauce - too much liquid for my taste, but perfect for his.
- It was certainly not swimming in a pool of oil and was covered with a fair enough amount of batter that it was still possible to taste the squid within.
- The feral pigs were almost swimming in mud that was covered in slimy green algae.
be saturated in, be drenched in, be soaked in, be steeped in, be immersed in, be covered in, be drowning in, be full of
3 [no object] Appear to reel or whirl before one's eyes: Emily rubbed her eyes as the figures swam before her eyes
More example sentences
- She was dizzy. The world swam before her eyes and rocked like the boat.
- Black spots swam before her eyes and she felt herself slipping.
- Suddenly the room began to swim before her eyes.
3.1Experience a dizzily confusing sensation in one's head: the drink made his head swim
More example sentences
- Her mind still swam with the confusion of the dream and she knew she had to find out what it meant.
- Her head swam in confusion along with a massive headache that pulsed behind her eyes.
- Every time she made any sudden movements her head swam like it was filled with water.
nounBack to top
1An act or period of swimming: we went for a swim in the river
More example sentences
- At Rs.250 per person, one can also have a swim in the outdoor swimming pool and enjoy the cadence of the Filipino band.
- I really wanted to have a swim in my own swimming pool on my birthday.
- We were both in the best shape of our lives, and this swim would have been easy.
2A pool in a river that is a particularly good spot for fishing: he landed two 5-lb chub from the same swim
More example sentences
- I selected a swim near the first spot that I had tried and again proceeded to fish a long line.
- The road forks just before you reach the river and the best swims are to the right beyond the landing stage.
- If you look at flowing swims in a river, you can get the wrong impression of the pace.
In standard English, the past tense of swim is swam ( she swam to the shore) and the past participle is swum ( she had never swum there before). In the 17th and 18th centuries, swam and swum were used interchangeably for the past participle, but this is not acceptable in standard modern English.
- 1
in the swim
- Involved in or aware of current affairs or events.Example sentences
- I loved being part of the madness of the rush hour commute - it made me feel in the swim, connected to the rest of the world, part of everyday society.
- Hearing aids will put you back in the swim again.
- It's good to be back in the swim of things!
- 2
swim with (or against) the tide
- Act in accordance with (or against) the prevailing opinion or tendency.Example sentences
- Despite swimming against the tide, he has never lost his youthful energy.
- One patron of the society said: 'We've been swimming against the tide for years now.'
- 'Instead of swimming against the tide, there should be an attempt to make maximum advantage of it,' he says.
- 1
swimmable adjective
- Example sentences
- Our waters are cleaner, but 40 percent of them still don't meet the fishable / swimmable / drinkable standard.
- Whatever, it is a drive from the nearest swimmable beach and, although the sea is an exquisite turquoise, your view also overlooks the local football pitch.
- Temperatures reach the high twenties, the sea is bracing but easily swimmable and, in the south of Gran Canaria, the sun shines 350 days a year.
- 2
swimmer noun
- Example sentences
- He said all swimmers are ordinary workers and they enjoy the feeling they get.
- One big challenge for the young swimmers was racing in preliminaries and finals.
- There was a large turn out for the event with a lot of young swimmers already showing great potential.
Definition of swim in:
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Violin Sonata in E-flat major, K.58/Anh.C 23.04 (Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus)
Free public domain sheet music from IMSLP / Petrucci Music Library
|This sonata is no longer believed to be the work of Mozart, but the true composer has not been identified
Sheet Music
Piano Score (Preview)
PDF scanned by PL-LZu
Violin Part (Preview)
PDF scanned by PL-LZu
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozarts Werke, Serie XVIII:
Piano Score and Violin part
Scores and Parts
Piano Score (Preview)
*#62511 - 0.98MB, 7 pp. - (0) - V/V/V - 914x⇩
PDF scanned by PL-LZu
piupianissimo (2010/4/25)
Violin Part (Preview)
*#62512 - 0.32MB, 3 pp. - (1) - V/V/V - 968x⇩
PDF scanned by PL-LZu
piupianissimo (2010/4/25)
Publisher Info.:
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozarts Werke, Serie XVIII:
Sonaten und Variationen für Pianoforte und Violine (pp.146-52, 47-49)
Leipzig: Breitkopf & Härtel, 1879. Plate W.A.M. 58.
Misc. Notes:
Originally scanned at 300dpi grayscale, converted to 600dpi monochrome.
Piano Score and Violin part
*#86873 - 0.81MB, 9 pp. - (0) - V/V/C - 275x⇩
Publisher Info.:
Unidentified publisher, n.d.(ca.1890).
General Information
|Work Title
|Violin Sonata
|Alternative Title
|Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus
|Opus/Catalogue Number
|K.58 ; K³.209f ; K⁶.Anh.C 23.04
|E♭ major
|Piece Style
|Piano and Violin
Misc. Comments
- Scores from Łódź University Library
- Scores published by Breitkopf und Härtel
- Scores published in 1879
- Scores published in the 19th century
- Pages with Files Lacking Publication Data
- Pages with scores
- Pages with parts
- Scores
- Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus
- Classical
- Sonatas
- For violin, piano
- Scores featuring the violin
- Scores featuring the piano
- For 2 players


text:
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Have A Healthy 2013 With A Plantable Seed Calendar
Why not start off the New Year with a daily reminder to eat better? This year you can with the new calendar by Botanical PaperWorks for 2013 that will help you grow a garden. The Grow-A-Garden Plantable Seed Calendar gives you the tools to plant your own vegetable and herbs. Each calendar page is made of seed paper that is embedded with different vegetable or herb seeds. Since the months are printed back-to-back on one page you'll be able to plant one page for every two months. January and February are made of tomato seed paper so that you can get a head start growing the plants inside your home before transplanting them to your garden in spring. The remaining months are made of eco-friendly paper that contains lettuce, carrots, dill, basil, and parsley seeds.
Botanical PaperWorks designed the calendar in such a way that the vegetables can be planted during the first half of the year. Whereas the herbs can be enjoyed during the second half since they can be kept indoors. All you need to get started is a pot for planting, potting soil, water, a sunny corner in your home and a bit of patience. To stick with the example of the tomato seed paper you would first plant it under a thin layer (1/8 to 1/4 inch) of potting soil. Then keep it moist and in a sunny area until sprouts start developing. If they start looking too crowded in their pot you should transfer them into individual smaller ones. Once the weather gets warm enough they can be moved to the outside.
What's so great about the plantable calendar is that it's not only for people with a green thumb but also with a green mind. The biodegradable paper is made with post-consumer material collected from local businesses and schools that decomposes when planted in a pot of soil. This rescues 10 tons of paper per year from the local landfill. With the Grow-A-Garden Plantable Seed Calendar you can enjoy your own vegetables and herbs all year long. Happy New Year!


text:
Working together to see a spiritual, economic, social and physical transformation of West Dallas, 75212Scroll to see current events and news!
Encourage broad-scale collaboration between partnering agencies, neighborhoods, and Dallas area churches (read more)
Provide and introduce expertise, training, efficiencies, contacts, and economies of scale (read more)
Attract in-kind, human resource/volunteers and financial assets (read more)
Serve West Dallas is a model of what can happen when the business, government, church, and faith-based organizations collaborate with their neighbors to meet the diverse needs of a community.Tom Leppert, Former Mayor of Dallas
God has put the body together … so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 1 Corinthians 12: 24-26
Serve West Dallas represents a new generation of philanthropic endeavors that encourages collaboration, helps bring needed resources and builds the capacity of the faith-based organizations they serve.T. Hardie, President, Rees-Jones Foundation


text:
Renee Rocco
Revolving Door (0)
Sightings (1)
Kensington Publishing Has Acquired eBook Publisher Lyrical Press - Posted January 3, 2014
Indie publishing house Kensington Publishing Corp. has acquired the eBook publishing company Lyrical Press, in a deal whose terms were not disclosed. The acquisition brings 250 romance, YA, and genre fiction titles from Lyrical Press' backlist into the Kensington collection. Lyrical Press will continue to operate under its cur... [GalleyCat]