text:
Eternal meta should be better when approaching 359 and higher.
Threads/questions like this are really hard to respond to... There is no definitive answer to the question "what stat(s) are best?".
However, if THIS is what you mean:
"If I had to choose a specific gemming/forging strategy and stick with it for every fight w/o swapping on a per-fight basis, what would be the best choice?"
The best answer, imo (at your level of gear), would be to gem/forge for mastery while keeping bonuses. That means 40mastery in yellows, 20mastery20parry in reds, 20mastery30stam in blues. Make sure mastery is on every piece of gear (default or forged) and keep parry ~2-3% higher than dodge. Get yourself the mirror of broken images from TB and a stamina trinket, pref the one off magmaw. 65mastery on gloves, lavawalker on boots, 50mastery on shield, austere meta in helm.
Last edited by Dragaan; 04-27-2011 at 12:26 PM.
Eternal meta should be better when approaching 359 and higher.
Austere continues to reduce damage on the largest hits you take, but the Eternal only reduces the damage for hits that are already reduced.
Depending if bosses get expertise (and how much), we may or may not make the swap in firelands - but as a rule: we're not there yet.
"I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"
Overall dmg reduction is not 'comparable', say in my gear eternal is almost twice as good.
Average Damage Reduction:
82.05% (no meta)
82.28% (austere)
82.36 (eternal)
And considering that the eternal's average reduction is higher while on shield block - it's also more damage reduction while already reducing substantial damage. Gearing for "worst case" is not as outdated as some people imagine.
If you are using wartotem's spreadsheet - you'll find that setting Austere to zero does not reduce the armour you have. Essentially this "option" changes nothing in the spread sheet, you need to manually enter your new armour value.
Last edited by Booi; 04-28-2011 at 08:31 AM.
"I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"
Nah, I was actually using Kahalm's spreadsheet from EJ. But War Totems looks similar for my char:
82.7 no meta
82.85 austere
83.02 eternal
Roar does not seem to have meta analysis yet, or it bugs out on me. But Mr Robot also told me to get eternal iirc.
While I also like the "gear for the worst" approach, the difference is just too big. Say I am currently unhittalbe by close to 90% attacks. With 30+ up time on both Windwalk and Shield Block, unmitigated hits are pretty rare and far in between, and 60+ from block is just big in comparison. And the worm trinket only adds to this.
Last edited by kopcap; 04-28-2011 at 09:15 AM.
Do you know if Kahalm's spreadsheet is averaging in shield block?
Tanks die surprisingly little these days, but when I do i feel like it's:
1) We're wiping for another reason
2) Muddled fight mechanic / missing a CD
3) back to back unblocked hits or unblocked hit + magic damage.
When you run the eternal meta, what are you hoping to gain? Saving healer mana?
"I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"
Not sure really, I had not checked deep into it, its got way too many numbers.
About the things you listed:
1) Two back to back unmitigated hits big enough to kill are very rare, usually a big unmitigated hit (if its really threatening) is followed by a worm proc, where eternal is going to help more than armor.
2) Unmitigated plus magic - we are now more likely to delay SB for magic bursts, so again more power to eternal.
Just trying to make my staple ability a little more efficient, thats all.
The only two fights that might be classified as "Tank Killers" are HM chogall and sinestra.
Here's the situation:
If i take an unblocked hit while inspiration falls on sinestra, it is 108k - Without austere that would be 109138 (difference of 1138).
That's much more likely to kill me than changing blocked hits from 75600 to 75305 (difference of 295).
Tanks die over the course of a few melee swings. Despite blizzard's best intentions tanks don't sink over 20 second intervals. The majority of tank deaths revolve around unblocked hits, however unlikely their occurrence. Over the course of a tank's death you would need 4 blocked hits before you would surpass the reduction you missed from not having the armour on that unblocked one.
I guess I don't see what you are actually buying with improving your block value.
Last edited by Booi; 04-28-2011 at 11:51 AM.
"I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"
But because I can't possibly predict how much 'real' armor from gear you have and how much is bonus, you do need to calculate it yourself.
Unless I force you to do the sum for me every time you change gear, but considering that's less open to non-math wizards, I preferred to do it as it is
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
Its not entirely fair to compare "per unmitigated" vs "per blocked".
Nonetheless you made me check some numbers and I am surprised at how efficient armor is at smoothing out the extremes and how big the likelihood of two unmitigated hits in a row is. I actually came to a neighborhood of 55% for a 7 minutes fight with 90% unhittable, SB on CD and 33% Windwalk. That said I still expect worm to play a big role cos unmitigated hits only happen once very ~25 seconds on average so if healers/cds are on the ball, it should proc from this a fair bit when needed. Some of the logs I have seen make it look like the player clicks the trinket, how well timed it is I would really like to see sims on this.
ps Is there a way to see player health vs time in wol?
Last edited by kopcap; 04-29-2011 at 09:16 AM.
EDIT: Aha!
I don't know if there have been changes to combat log formatting that his program hasn't been updated to handle.
"I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"
MMO-Logs boasts a health deficit option.
Just an old normal mode - 10 man alt log...
It's not the most elegant of interfaces, but it seems to have what we're looking for:
and the direct link:
Last edited by Booi; 04-29-2011 at 10:52 AM.
"I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"
The live version of Rawr seems to have a bug of some sort regarding displaying the meta gem list which my local version doesn't--I'll assume I've either fixed it already or someone else has!
Either way, yes, Eternal seems to be coming out quite a bit ahead of Austere once you have a fair amount of Mastery.
Loading up the profile of a very well-geared 372 Warrior who has gemmed Mastery hybrid gems in most slots (85.5% normal avoid%+block%, 90.38% averaging Shield Block in) shows Eternal as nearly double the mitigation value--while Austere has a little over double the EH value.
For relative stat values, the EH difference from Armor is roughly the same as 113 Stamina, while the difference in Mitigation is roughly the same as 120 Parry/Dodge rating for that profile.
So, regardless of if you prefer EH or avoidance, the Eternal is obviously more bang/buck. The EH would have to be worth more than 180 Stamina to be worth the same in item budget.
If you're focusing on prioritizing Mitigation (which anyone who's gemming Mastery probably is) over EH, then it's a pretty clear winner.
It's also the reason that people keep pushing mastery even when dodge or parry rating provide more damage reduction. Get those "crushing blows" off the table. Then address the unblocked hits that remain.
EDIT: just an excerpt from our first sinestra kill. The big thing I find is that healers never say "Take less damage" but when an unblocked hit comes (or a pair of them) I'll catch a comment "What the truck just hit you?" Blocked hits don't kill tanks.
Last edited by Booi; 05-01-2011 at 08:34 AM.
"I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"
On a related note, a lot of top warriors seem to chose War Bone Helm over Daybreaker. Some go as far as getting Massacre Threads and even dropping the 4p bonus. What do you think about this?
ps Koji, thanks but meta still is not working.
Kopcap, it will require a new build, most likely.
Booi, I'm honestly not really sure what you're trying to say. First off, if you're working on Sinestra, you will wiggle your gear around to survive the fight as needed. It's totally an edge case and does not really apply to the majority of the content in the game.
Secondly, some of what you say is really not accurate. Parry and Dodge stop being more valuable than Mastery after even moderate amounts of Mastery is on your gear. The reason people keep pushing Mastery is because Mastery has increasing returns while Parry and Dodge have diminishing returns. Mastery is a clear winner in terms of a stat to stack for optimal damage reduction.
Also, if 'neither meta gem takes a step towards [your] goal', how is that even relevant? Pick the best one, then. For a well-geared tank who has stacked Mastery, the Block meta gem reduces more damage. That's just simple math. As I quoted, if you prioritize damage reduction you get the Block meta, if you want more EH you get the Armor meta.
But, again, if you are in an edge case where you need more EH--by all means, pick EH. However, that simply doesn't apply to most content and the meta gem is honestly not the most effecient place to get it, either, as the budget is quite imbalanced compared to gem or trinket slots.
Last edited by Kojiyama; 05-01-2011 at 05:56 AM.
Sorry, I'll try to be more specific.
1) Get unblocked hits off your hit table as much as you reasonably can. Unblocked hits hit 43% harder than blocked ones. This is where a tanks "spiking" comes from.
2) Once you've made any reasonable trade for mastery - gear for what kills you on progression encounters.
So I look at my options that remain after step one. Which tend to be: Cloak enchant/Bracer Enchant/Trinket/Meta Gem and I take a step towards my second priority. Right now this tends to be unblocked hits, but in the future it might be more spell damage. But I have yet to come into a case where blocked hits have lead to my death (even through healer mana concerns).
Last edited by Booi; 05-01-2011 at 08:40 AM.
"I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"
This is really Blizzard's fault for allowing the stats to scale differently over time rather than having a consistent value, but that's just the mechanics of it.
The reason I say gearing for EH is an edge case is because, by and large, there is not more than maybe 2 fights in the entire game right now that require active gearing for EH to be successful. Heck, even heroic-geared tanks with zero Stamina gems can be pushing 200k buffed health. Trinkets are really the only thing you need in order to have enough EH to survive the majority of content in the game.
Due to that, many people focus on Mitigation due to healer mana concerns and lowering their overall damage taken.
Realistically, it's not as if the Armor from the meta (~0.44% reduction) is going to save you on a given unblocked swing either. The modifier is so small that both metas really only serve the purpose of lowering your overall damage taken over time. On a specific fight where you are dying due to 200 health overkills, sure, but that really doesn't apply in most cases. Most of the times I die, it is due to longer periods of reduced (or no) healing due to either mana or environmental issues for the healers.
Even if your screenshotted combat log example, I'm quite certain that the Block meta would have reduced more damage between the two points at which you were topped off. After all, you Blocked 5 out of the 7 incoming hits.
On the two unblocked hits, the Armor meta would have reduced roughly 910 damage. Whereas the Block meta would have reduce the third Blocked swing alone by 984 damage even if it was a normal block--as it was a Critical Block, it would have reduced it by 1968. By the third swing, the two are fairly even given a normal block as the Armor meta would have reduced the third swing by around 170 damage, but with a Critical Block thrown in there the Block meta is much, much higher.
You then take another two blocked hits without any real healing, which means the Block meta would have reduced the damage by a quite a bit more between when you were topped off and when you started getting major healing again after the breath.
In the series where you got only around 36.7k healing, the Block meta would have reduced your incoming damage by 4473, while the Armor meta would reduce it by 1540. That's 2.9 times as much reduction for the Block meta.
It's hard to see how the Armor meta is really helping your chances of survival there. The reality is simply that having a lot of Block not only strengthens the Block meta, but also weakens the Armor meta in terms of raw HPS reduction--Critical Blocks, especially, see very little raw reductions from small amounts of Armor compared to the flat 2% damage reduction provided by the Meta.


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Scared and SCARRED! Beware!!
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WEST SPRINGFIELD, MASSACHUSETTS -- Scarred and Scared
I was so happy when I received a phone call from American Laser Centers stating that I had won $300 worth of laser hair removal. I went in the next day to "just to talk" with someone about my winnings and this conniving woman told me that if I didn't purchase one of their packages right there and then, that the offer was going to be null and void. I felt cornered and unsure of this major financial commitment seeing how I was still in school, so I wanted to go home to talk it over with my mother. She assured me that the procedure was quick, painless, and will be worth the investment for never having to shave again. I told her that even with the $300 I "won" I could never afford the total she showed me. As a favor, she told me that she would give me an additional discount to knock the price down to $1000 and she would sign me up for the Customer Care Credit Card so I wouldn't have to pay it all up front. I found out that anyone who fills out there name, address, and phone number will "win" which I was never told. Although, I was told that there was a doctor that oversees the office. Later, I found out that he comes a few times a year to keep up appearances, but really the company pays them for their status to make it look more legitimate. Unfortunately I found all this out later and I did sign the papers but if I would have known what was to come, I would have started running far away from there.
I started going to treatments and I could tell right away that the staff had no idea what they were doing. It seemed as though staff members were coming and going quite regularly, while the conniving woman I mentioned was always coming and going from Dunkin Donuts. Whenever I was in the office, I was usually waiting anywhere from ten to forty minutes for my treatment. I had to sit in the waiting room on more than one occasion listening to her personal and unprofessional phone calls. When the phone calls were professional she would make it sound like it was "so busy" in the office when it wasn't. Numerous times, I would come in for an appointment and they would tell me that they only had time to treat one of my areas because of booking and time issues. One time, I waited in the waiting room for so long that she offered me three Micro-derm Abrasion treatments because I wanted to leave. Nice gesture I guess, but I just wanted what I paid for. The next time I went in for my appointment, this one staff member was taking too long on a patient so the manager started to reprimand her in front of me to the point where this staff member (Jodi) began to cry.
I was surprised by their unprofessionalism, but in my opinion these were minor problems. In the beginning, my actual treatments were pretty "average". The process took anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and the laser didn't hurt. As I was approaching my 4th and 5th treatment and I was still not noticing any hair loss, they told me that they were going to do "double passes" with the laser (meaning that they would go over the treated area twice with the laser). When that didn't work and I still wasn't really seeing much hair loss, I was told that I was going to have a "double pass" with the stronger laser. A staff member named Luna treated me that day and she was very rude and also unprofessional. She was in a hurry and basically told me that she need to turn the laser up to a higher temperature because I wasn't seeing results. The laser felt hot on my skin but she told me that I just had to deal with it if I wanted to have all the hair gone. But finally she turn down the setting and she finished my treatment at a lower temperature.
Yesterday on January 18th, 2008, I want to my appointment unaware of what was to come. Another new and seemingly friendly staff member greeted me and began my treatment. Right away, the laser was hot! Actually, I even jumped and experienced muscle spasms from the laser hurting me from being so hot. I asked her to turn down the setting and she said that that was the setting from my last appointment. I told her that it was too hot and in all my other treatments except for the last, it never was that hot. She began to tell me how well "trained" she was and all the hours of experience she had doing this. I told her my experience from my last treatment and how it was too hot and she had to turn it down and that I wanted her to do the same. She told me that that was the reason why I wasn't seeing hair loss, because it wasn't hot enough. When she got to my stomach, I pleaded with her to really turn it down because it hurt so bad. She told me that my skin wasn't even turning red and she had plenty of gel to cool the skin. Once she started to do the "double pass" on that same part, I demanded for her to turn it down. I told her how much it was hurting and she told me that it was because she was going over my hip bone (which wasn't even part of my treatment). She even suggested that the reason why I was being so sensitive was because, "Sometimes around ones cycle, your skin gets more sensitive." Well, that wasn't true in my case. When she started to do my back, I had to tell her again that I was in pain. She told me to, "try not to think about it!"
That is pretty hard to do when I was getting burned. It may be because of the protective glasses she was wearing, but she should have seen that my skin was red! Perhaps, because she did notice what she was doing to me, she did turn the setting down. While she finished up, I told her how sore the area was and how none of my other treatments were like that. I couldn't wait to get out of there. I needed to go home to put ice on my skin. As I was driving home, it hurt to press my back against the drivers seat. As I was looking as these red marks, I realized that the whole time I was sitting there getting burned. I felt so violated! I waited until my mother got home so that she could look at my back and sure enough, there were burn marks in that area too that were in the shape of the laser device. My mother took pictures so that I could see and I was so upset. I called and left a message and I am still waiting for someone to call me back. I also called the main corporate number and of course, there was no answer so I had to leave a message. I will never set foot into another American Laser Centers office.
I am certainly too afraid to finish my treatments and since I still have no hair loss, I would like my money back. I understand that I signed a paper saying that they don't give refunds but under these circumstances, I had no idea that I had to be burned to get the hair loss. That was not in the contract. I have pictures of the MULTIPLE burns, if anyone would like to see them. I do not want to have to sue and I am not asking for any pain and suffering compensation. I would just like my money back. I don't think that it too much to ask, especially when I will having scarring from this and who knows what other possible internal injuries (God forbid). I am a school teacher who just wanted to feel better about herself. I would have never even had this procedure done if I didn't "win" $300. I want to get my story heard so that this doesn't happen to anyone else.
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jktshff1 on 01/20/2008:
You just learned a few hard lessons. If you don't understand, DON'T sign, "must sign now" DON'T sign, If you sense something wrong..it usually is.
Good Luck and stay away from the "enter our contest" plea's, especially if it concerns your body.
madconsumer on 01/20/2008:
hair loss = hair falling out.
hair growth reduction = no new hair growing.
laser hair removal is not for everyone. sounds like you had experienced a poorly operated salon.
DebtorBasher on 01/20/2008:
Is this a contest you actually entered....or they just called and told you that you won? If you didn't enter...you didn't win and telling you if you didn't sign NOW the offer is no longer any good is just a way to pressure you into signing a contract. One thing to remember in the future, even if you sign a contract, you USUALLY have something like 36 hours or so to cancel when there is proof of being pressured into signing. They took advantage of you, I don't know how old you are, being student, but they may have taken advantage of your age as well. One thing people have to be careful of, is "What" they are entering. Especially at places like Home and Garden shows, Auto shows etc. Every booth will have you sign up for a "give away"...this is ONLY a way for them to get your contact information to try to sell you their services. I've entered all kinds of contests as a hobby and won many things, trips, money, rooms of furniture and I knew they were legit contests that I entered...even with this kind of hobby I NEVER enter anything at these kind of shows. The little box you see at your local drug stores for a free cruise...I guarantee they will contact you with the same scam this hair removal place did. Where they tell you you won XXX dollars TOWARDS a cruise, and they will ask for your credit card info then you end up paying anyway. Another one would be the "Free Tan" drawings...same thing. You have to be careful what you enter and if you DIDN'T enter, you didn't win. I had someone call me and tell me that my name was drawn and I won the grand prize, a Satellite dish. I asked what contest was that, that I entered and won...they couldn't give me the answer, only that they call "the winners" because their company has many contest across the States...I told them to pick another entry from the contest and give the grand prize to that person. THEN my brother said he got the same call, the same day. Then we realized it was from the Home and Garden show,and that's when I stopped signing up at those places. They said it was for free installation of my new satellite and a certain amount off the dish...LOL...free my butt!
Dcrane on 01/20/2008:
I have considered going there after getting the same incentive. However, I felt a bit leery about it since it is not located within a dermatologists office.
While I am not a litigious person, I strongly recommend that you consult an attorney about this issue in an effort to protect others from being injured by these poorly trained individuals. You should not suffer while trying to make a minor improvement.
Starlord on 01/20/2008:
I agree with Basher. I used to sell waterless cookware, and we would go downtown during lunch hour and get young women who might be interested in the 'hope chest' idea to fill out cards for a 'drawing.' A few weeks later, we would select a card, call the girl and tell her she won like third prize and make an appointment to deliver her 'prize'. Then we would ask if she would like to look at some nice things while we were there. We would show up with a plastic bag that held a set of six cheap tumblers that cost us less than a dollar. If she said okay to looking at stuff, we had two big cases, one of waterless cookware and one of China, flatware, crystal, etc. I preferred to set up a dinner party for more mature people, where I would bring the food and have the couple invite two other couples. They knew from the get-go that their dinner would be prepared with the cookware we were trying to sell them. I got some pretty good orders that way, and it seemed more honest to me.
AZKatie on 05/26/2008:
I totally had a similar experience they told me I won money of a treatment but the money didn't cover much at all, they didn't help me get rid of any hair, it all grew back and then some!!! I was so frustrated I started researching places and went to Laser for Less in Chandler AZ instead and actually got to sit down with the manager of the salon who did my free consultation, she also asked me a lot of questions as to my medications I was taking and my tanning habits, she too a close look at my skin my hair and told me the truth, that laser hair removal is not always permanent and that I will most likely see a reduction after 6-8 sessions but to keep the result I will need follow up treatments probably 2-4 times a year, she also suggested I take a hormonal test to see if my levels are normal, she then did a free test patch, showed me pricing and let me leave with no pressure to buy anything! Probably the best experience I have ever had. Since then I have done 3 treatments on my face for $145 each time, I have seen a huge improvement and I am so happy, also after 6 full treatments Laser for Less offers any extra ones at half price for life!!! I just hope that more laser places start being honest and just explain how it all works, if the technology isn't perfect that is OK but be honest about it! I will never get laser treatment from any one else except Laser for Less! They are honest and care about their clients!!
akamommyx6 on 02/18/2009:
I also was "chosen" as a winner in a contest I entered for $300.00 prize. I went in to "talk" to someone about my prize and I signed up for a package for my eyes. 2 days after I signed up I realized I wasn't going to be able to afford it so I called to cancel my contract. I was told it would take 8-10 weeks to issue me a refund. I really have no idea why it would take that long but alright. I have been waiting 5 months for my refund. Every time I call I get told their policy has changed or that they will expedite my refund and still nothing. I got told today that they have no power to expedite anyones refund. And also that their policy has changed and now it takes up to 16 weeks to process a refund. 16 WEEKS COME ON!!!!!! This is ridiculous. I have contacted my credit card company and they say because it is over 60 days since the initial date they cannot do anything. I am so frustrated. I am paying on this balance on my card. DON'T SIGN UP WITH THEM!!!!!!
sizzle on 06/13/2010:
I get laser hair removal done and it does hurt. it is very painful, worse than anything else I have ever felt. but they are right, the higher the laser is turned up, the better the results. although too high can create problems. and the skin does temporarily turn red. just saying.
Skye on 06/13/2010:
Sizzle, is your NIC any indication of what happened to your skin, after a laser treatment?
Anonymous on 06/13/2010:
Skye+100...you beat me to that punchline!
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A Sneaky, Conniving Company
Posted by
SUGAR LAND, TEXAS -- First I want to make it clear this is the first time I have ever ever written a complaint against anyone. I am an extremely rational person and never want to point fingers and people and always try to resolve matters with others. I have been writing this complaint against American Laser Center on every place where I can write a review. I truly want to reach all consumers and warn them. I really want to warn everyone because I do not want them to be put in a compromising position and get ripped off.
The sales people at this place are extremely deceptive. Please please do not think you are getting a good deal or that they are doing a "special". Basically they give different prices to different people depending on how much they think you can pay. I'm sorry this is America, I thought we are supposed to have fixed prices. Do not trust a place where you have to negotiate pricing! They will sit there with you and knock off prices off of each item with you to make it seem like they are knocking off so much money! I fell for that because the individual sits there with you and is like I will take this much off of this and this much off of the TOTAL! I remember I was sooo impressed, but of course the price are inflated then discounted.
Well the main reason while I am extremely upset is as follows. Two of my friends and myself signed on to get packages (comprising different areas we wanted to do). Basically Friend A was given a price and Friend B wanted to do the same thing as Friend A and two ladies at the SAME LOCATION gave Friend A a price that was $2,000 more than Friend B for the EXACT SAME PACKAGE! Friend B ended up going for something else, but the point is she was OFFERED a price $2,000 than Friend A because she was able to negotiate it down! So PLEASE beware. I mean if it was a couple hundred dollars... okay I understand... but $2,000 is in no way justifiable.
I signed on to get a deal and paid them 2,000 (which was so stupid of me, I was too trusting of the sales lady but she was very very pushy). But when I learned of what happened to my two friends I wanted to pull out of it! So I called repeatedly to get a refund, because I had no even started services. The individual who said she would "take care" of my issue never ever called me back to update me on the status so I had to call her constantly. I was very nice about the situation and never ever shouted or was rude to her in any way. I do not think you have to be rude with someone to get what you want. Well this individual there ( I won't say names) was EXTREMELY RUDE to me. I tried to get refunded before I even began services because I do NOT want to deal with such conniving sneaky sales people. She denied me a refund ( I didn't even go in FOR ANY treatments). I mean can you believe she wanted to keep my 2,000 for NOTHING? She kept trying convince me to come in for treatment but there is no way I want to have anything to do with this company. I would rather pay more money but know the value of what I am getting. And KNOW the next person coming in the door won't be getting the package I got for 2,000 less because they "negotiated" with the sales person. Well when I keep trying to explain to "this individual" the situation how she and another individual gave each of my friends prices for the EXACT same package that differed by TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS she kept denying it and flipped out on me... she was VERY RUDE and hung up on my FACE! Can you believe a manager HUNG UP on my face? How is that in any way business etiquette? I am the one who is supposed to be giving them attitude and I did not. So yea right then I called my credit card company to dispute the claim. I got my money back from my credit card company. So please please BE CAREFUL! They try to act suppppppppper sweet as if they will "work with you" to figure out how to finance your package. Do not fall into the trap of Care Credit. If for some reason you still do want to go for a consultation do not feel pressured to sign anything at all. Do not do it. Honestly research this place on Google, I am not just one person who is complaining. Please do not take my warning lightly. I am taking time out of my day to write this to let everyone know what happened to me and my friends. I am honestly trying to warn people from giving their hard earned money to such a deceptive company. We all work hard and if we want to do something like this it should be with a company who values their customers and American Laser Center does not.
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Hugh_Jorgen on 06/17/2007:
You are kidding, right? Have you never bought a house or a car? Purchased an airline ticket or booked a hotel room? Prices on just about everything is negotiable, the difference is some people are willing to do some research, know the marketplace and negotiate and some just want the good ole' government to issue price controls so everyone pays the same. How do you know your two friend's jobs were the same? Perhaps one of your friends was fuzzier than the other and they realized more time would be required.
Starlord on 06/17/2007:
ALC is a quasi-medical outfit, which means they are dealing with human beings. Humans are not produced like automobiles, with identical parts, etc. Any procedure done with humans is going to vary between people, therefore the cost of doing the procedure is going to be different.
twizzler766 on 06/17/2007:
Okay thank you for your comments but honestly I now EXACTLY what the situation was. Both of them were getting the exact same packages and everything was identical in this situation. I would not be so upset if it was not. Each package for each area she explained was a set price. Honestly how would you feel if you find out after you signed a contract that the person you referred to the company and was receiving the exact same treatment as you, was given a price $2,000 less than you. I am not just complaining here because I am an "idiot". Look them up on all other sources. Everyone has complaints against them. I'm sorry but it is RIDICULOUS to me that you have to negotiate for this kind of treatment. This is like having to negotiate getting a hair cut. Buying a car and buying a house are COMPLETELY different issues from this.
Hugh_Jorgen on 06/18/2007:
Of course buying a house is different, but I was trying to illustrate your ridiculous behavior by being ridiculous. You stated "....this is America, I thought we are supposed to have fixed prices...." Who told you that?
Wake up and realize that there isn't a price out there that isn't negotiable. The difference is some people aren't afraid to ask for a better price. It's your money, you worked hard for it - it's not a sin to try to keep some of it in your pocket.
Nefastus on 10/21/2007:
just wanted to join in and say how awful this place is. seriously never trust these people and I mean NEVER! everything they say are lies. first off I agree that prices are different depending on your condition BUT how can you know someone's condition when you don't even check? I went in and assume that they would check my hair so they can give me a price. well they never check and just gave me a price and a sales pitch. I was naive and stupid because I signed up thinking I was getting a good price. the CSR lied to me and said "oh I can't give you anymore discount unless I ask my manager" she leaves the room and pretends to call her manager and came back and said she'll give me the discount. then even said how she'll give me a friends and family discount because I really wanted to do the procedure. whatever all lies. when I called back a couple of days later to cancel they gave me the run around and wouldn't let me talk to their manager. after 4 calls they stop picking up my phone calls. so I decided to block my number and guess what they picked up my call. then I finally got the manager on the phone and guess what? the CSR that I talked to a couple of days before was actually the manager! no mistake because she was the only person I talked to at that place in person and she even said that she was the one who talked to me before. unless she somehow got promoted over the weekend (maybe she got promoted after getting me to sign the contract) she completely lied to me. also their contract is a sham and refuse to refund me the money even though I never did any treatments and basically cancel the next day. if you don't believe me just simply do a search on American laser center on google and you'll see for yourself. also check the BBB for yourself their ratings an FFF.
stacy44 on 12/03/2007:
First of all, stop being so stupid and signing contracts without researching what you are signing. When you sign a contract you are agreeing to pay for that amount. If you actually read the contract when you signed it I'm sure you would have read about a no refund policy or at least terms and conditions. But apparently you were so memorized with the idea of making yourself look better and being so vain that you didn't even read the small print. Grow up and stop being naive. American Laser Center is a SALES company and a COSMETIC service. It's not some medical company where you go to get necessary treatments, you know that you are there because you want to make yourself look better. So stop blaming other people for your naivety and your vanity. Read things before you sign them. Bargain with a sales person. Stop complaining, life is too short. You are probably a terrible tipper too. 20% always tip 20%
Anonymous on 02/27/2008:
I could write forever on how I feel about this place.... they do over charge but I figured it was a well known place and professional. figured you get what you pay for. the price is one thing but when paying that kind of money I expect the best. they are very unorganized and no front desk. make a long story short because of this we encountered a problem. these people were nothing but RUDE to me and handled it very poorly. unfortunately I am forced to go there until I finish my packages in which I'm almost willing to just lose the money as I am so disgusted I wasted my money in the first place. I am going to try to transfer my visits to another facility just because I am so offended by them I don't think I can look at them. I paid for quality and professionalism. so far nothing.
Anonymous on 07/03/2008:
I am also a "trusting" person like you - twizzler766, Nefastus, and nikb. I resent the "naive", and "stupid" comments from the others listed above. When I buy something I expect it to work, otherwise I return it or ask for a refund. Spa treatments should be no different. I got screwed by Sleek Medspa in Burlington, MA because I trusted and believed the lying snake sales rep too. I paid a lot of money for my hair removal package...found out few months later my sister bought the same package for way less and got a year guarantee...if anything she should have paid more...she's way hairier!! Anyway, it is a shame that us trusting, honest people get screwed, while these businesses make millions in profit. It's disgusting how nice and sweet they act upfront, as soon as they have your $$$ they become rude and psychotic. I am so happy that you got your $$$ back and didn't do the treatments...I wasted a lot $$$ and time and got NO results!
I don't care if I win or loose but I will sue on principal.
AllieA on 12/08/2009:
I shopped around and did research before deciding on American Laser Centers of Fort Lauderdale and I must admit that I am very happy with my decision. The clinic manager was very professional and she explained everything in detail. I even got my treatment that same day! I really liked the medical professional that treated me, she also explained what she was doing during treatment and recommended other treatments. Adriana followed - up with me the next day to see how everything was. I would highly recommend the fort lauderdale clinic, they are not only professional but they do have good customer service.
AB555 on 08/22/2010:
I worked for an American Laser Center and everything that everyone says about them is true. It was an awful job and the way they treat their employees, along with their clients, is horrible. They DO make up any price they want and make it seem amazing. They are just trying to get a sale for that day. I've seen them recommend treatments for people that will not even work. Once they get your money, they will cancel appointments on you and don't care if your treatments are working or not. If they get a sale in that day, they will cut a persons appointment short and send them home so they can treat the new person who is paying money. And or course they will give you your first treatment that day, that way you cannot get a refund because you already got treated. Nice of them, huh? The treatments don't even work that well. I've never seen someone with 100% hair reduction after just 6 treatments. And I've seen a lot of people. Everything they do is illegal. I've even seen them scam a person with special needs before. It was the worst company I've ever worked for. Everyone, stay away from them. Do NOT support them and give them your money.
rachellesmith19 on 12/02/2010:
WORST EXPERIENCE OF MY LIFE! Lets see.. I "won" $300 off a package and was talked into getting the bikini,underarms,and full legs..so I got carecredit ready and was signed up to start, well the next day I thought about it and I wanted to cancel everything that I had set up the day before and the manager stephanie told me I would lose all my money even though I never had a treatment done because I signed the paperwork. so I ended up just keeping it and doing the treatments bc I didn't want to lose 4300 dollars I just invested in the company. then a month later I found out I could have canceled it as long as I never had a treatment done yet, so the manager lied to me about that. well its been 3 years of treatments and I've been burnt from the laser a few times now and I don't even have half of the hair reduction percentage. I just did my last bikini appt. yesterday, and still have so much hair---- well now they say I can buy a after package to continue receiving treatments at an additional cost. so the $4300 was for nothing pretty much. this company is a ripp out !!!!!!!! never again ..
I'm trying to figure out if any one has sued this company or gotten any of their money back ??
the beat on 05/11/2011:
Thanks for your review. I like it when people write about the bad experiences, as well as the good ones. I agree with you about the haggling part. Every where you go it seems like you have to negotiate for hours to get any price, and then when you do you have to make sure it's a good deal and that you are not getting ripped off. It used to be only car dealerships but now it is 'medspas' and fitness clubs too. They want a credit card number as soon as you walk in and want to lock you in for eternity. Won't give a refund even if their service sucks.
American Laser seems to be this way, but I am sure some locations are worse than the others. The fact that they have no prices on their website is a red flag right there. Cannot get a price anywhere on any services. Must go in and hand over your credit card.
No I don't believe in gov't control, but please, pretty soon when you go to buy groceries, they will demand to know what you pay for your lettuce now!! That's my 3 cents.
the beat on 05/11/2011:
Thanks for your review. I like it when people write about the bad experiences, as well as the good ones. I agree with you about the haggling part. Every where you go it seems like you have to negotiate for hours to get any price, and then when you do you have to make sure it's a good deal and that you are not getting ripped off. It used to be only car dealerships but now it is 'medspas' and fitness clubs too. They want a credit card number as soon as you walk in and want to lock you in for eternity. Won't give a refund even if their service sucks.
American Laser seems to be this way, but I am sure some locations are worse than the others. The fact that they have no prices on their website is a red flag right there. Cannot get a price anywhere on any services. Must go in and hand over your credit card.
No I don't believe in gov't control, but please, pretty soon when you go to buy groceries, they will demand to know what you pay for your lettuce now!! That's my 3 cents.
sexygirl on 09/20/2011:
It is a waste of time and money. I have been on treatment form more than two years and I still don't see the results
SharonLB45 on 10/18/2011:
seriously? you don't think price is negotiable?? It is with EVERYTHING IN LIFE. Get used to it. Who is to say that one friend may have been a better candidate for the treatment so they realized they wouldn't have to spend as much time with her? come on people. And AGREED do your research then and decide for yourself.
Kristy on 04/17/2013:
I agree, I had the same experience with ALC, I went in looking to do Botox and a filler and the pushy manager said I needed 4 Ematrix treatments. I didn't sign any paperwork but inquired about their credit card. I was approved for 5000 but not ever getting any treatments The manager charged this credit card 1800.00. Called the credit card company and they say they need to speak to ALC before they cancel. Called the center numerous times, blocked my call. I have written to Attorney General and BBB n now have to get a lawyer. This place needs to be shit down. FRAUD
Glenda Smith on 06/19/2013:
My experience with American Laser Centers/skincare was so terrible that I'm finding every forum I can to post my dissatisfaction. In a nut shell. I'm out more than 2,000 dollars, and more the two years and 26 treatments, and still have to shave everyday of my life. This is a huge rip off. Anyone considering doing business with ALS, beware and look elsewhere.
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Treatment had no results / poor customer service
Posted by
ORLANDO, FLORIDA -- I AM SUBMITTING A COMPLAINT ON AMERICAN LASER CENTER LOCATED AT, 8751 Commodity Cir # 2, Orlando - (407) 770-5720
I paid $4,100.00 CASH, for 7 treatments in 4 areas of their Vella treatment which I was convincinly told would reduce celulite, tighten and rejuvinate skin on front & back of thighs, stomach and flanks. I went to my appointments every Saturday at 10:00 for 3 hours each session,,,,,the same tech worked on me each week,,,,,after the 7 treatments we were still not getting any results,,,,they measure, take pictures and document before each treatment,,,,,my tech said she doesn't understand why I have made no progress and would speak to the manager "Chelsea" and get back to me,,,,,after a week I heard back and they said they decided to give me 3 free sessions and do not understand and admitted I had shown no results,,,,,,,,I showed up for all three extra treatments and still No results !! ,,,, I made numerous calls (which I can prove from my cell phone bill),,it took a week at a time of everday calls to get chelsea to return my call, I did not ask for a full refund I simply asked for a partial refund of $1,500 to $2,000 ,,,,,,after weeks of back and forth conversations with Chelsea, she said she was sorry that they could not offer any refund and could only possibly give me another treatment. she said I signed a contract and that myself and the company enetered into my treatments in quote "GOOD FAITH" that the treatments would work on me, therefore they will not honor any kind of refund !! ,,,,,,I could have in "good faith" had them do the treatments before I paid, but companies do not run on good faith, they run on money ,,,,,,I paid $4,100.00 for something that did not work . The last conversation I had with her was in regard to the last statement above and I told her that is not satisfactory and why would I go for more treatments if it doesn't work At All ! she said she would have her regional manager call me. I told her I expected a call back within 24 hours and it has now been over 3 weeks ! every time you call the office you get a voice machine and have to leave a message or if someone does answer the manager is always in a consultation and even if I call daily and leave messages it takes weeks to get a call back ! yet when I went for my first consultation and showed interest, I was getting continuous calls to come in and get it done ! .....I have been in sales and marketing and customer service for 14 years and am amazed at the indecency of this company and their unwillingness to make good on a service that did not work at all ! and they have records and documentation to prove it ! in addition to the fact that my technician and even the manager has repeatedly acknowledged the fact that their treatment did not work on me ! ,,,I have done research and see many shady complaints on this company online and I am extremely upset! ,,,,, again I simply asked for a partial refund because I know they tried and took time and cost to do the treatments on me even though that is like still giving them $2,100 for doing nothing .....I truly had No results and paid over $4,000 cash. I am a single mother of three kids and worked very hard to save up money to try to do something to make myself feel better about me and now along with no results I cannot get anyone from the company to acknowledge my issue or return a call,,,, I simply get, well we are sorry but we entered into it with good faith and tried !!
please let me know where to go from here or what to do!
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Skye on 11/27/2010:
Ask any doctor, the only cure for cellulite, is liposuction. You cannot get rid of liposuction with these types of treatments they gave you. I'm sorry you spent all your money there, because you probably could have found a board certified plastic surgeon who would of performed lipsuction on you, for what you paid them. Also, some people have a tendency towards cellulite even at a young age. The best way to prevent it, is healthy eating, daily exercise, and remaining a good healthy weight. Also yoyo dieting brings it on, because fat never goes a way, and it comes back with a vengeance when you gain weight and loose weight over and over. Just imagine your skin like a rubber band, what happens when you keep stretching it out, it looses its elasticity. But like I said, some people are prone to it, due to genetics, no matter how thin they are, or how young they are.
What does your contract say if you are not satisfied with your results? Is there an absolute guarantee if you're not happy, you get a some type of refund? Nothing wrong with wanting to feel better about yourself, but these places prey on people who are feeling a little down, and that's how they reel you in. They can plump up the skin with those treatment, but the actual cellulite stays.
Anonymous on 11/27/2010:
The treatment is not guaranteed. Most people see a noticeable difference in the appearance of cellulite gradually with this treatment, usually after 6 treatments.
HellionDeadwoman on 11/27/2010:
No treatment for anything is ever guaranteed. There is a reason we are all told many many times to READ everything BEFORE you sign it.
werelucky on 11/28/2010:
Take them to small claims court for the full amount. I think it should be under $100. List everyone who treated you or talked to and see what happens.
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American Laser Centers. "Are you Kidding me, why so many bad reviews?"
Posted by
SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA -- I read a review on here about negotiating prices. My sister and I visited the same American Laser Center at different times. We do not share the same last name, so there was no way for the nurse or manager to distinguish this during our consultations. I had been wanting laser hair removal for 4 years. I waited for years, because where ever I had gone, Laser Hair Removal was costly. My girlfriend who had it done 4 years ago kept telling me that my wax appts and boxes of $16 'pink curved' razors were adding up and the cost was getting expensive. Overtime, I'm wasting more $$ by not getting laser hair reduction. I'm going to shave anyway, I might as well invest in something that will make shaving easier. I shave once a week and MY SISTER shaves ONCE a MONTH! That's less money on waxes and plastic rusty razors.
It got rid of my ingrown hair! I had chunks ingrown hair under my arms and legs. My legs look so much softer and my armpits look pretty. I feel sexier. I'm going to try my bikini next. They had a one time only 60%. I didn't make the cut off time so they gave me $100 + 19.8% off and 2 small mini treatments. Not as good as the 60%, but I still got a deal and in a much better position to invest in something for myself. It was either this or a breast augmentation. Really. Well, my hair reduction is at 75-80% and I'm on my 11th treatment. That's almost 2 yrs of treatments. It's pretty good, because I was VERY hairy. I think I'm going to continue on with my free appts. You get free touchups up to 2 yrs from your start date.
I love this laser center. I used to go to younique, but I never saw any results. Their initial package didn't sound as promising as American Laser Centers. There were a lot of "what if's" when I went into all my appts. I'd rather sign up for everything so that each appt is cheaper. American Laser Centers is like the Costco with safe, well trusted staff. The representative was very helpful.
I asked the representative if this was true. She told me that with every client who seeks laser hair removal, they always feel as though waxing and shaving is cheaper. However, according to her calculations of what I had been spending each month, I was throwing my money down the drain. I told her that I spent about $40/month on waxing and $13-$15 every 2 months on a box of good razors. It ended up coming to $550 a year, for what I was spending on wax treatments and razors. I saw that in 2 years I would be spending about $1100 on waxing and razors, and I would have to continue paying this expense for the rest of my life. I thought, what if I invested $2500 in laser hair removal? It was clear that laser hair removal would save me thousands over time, but does it work? $2500,$200, $30... much of what you get can be paid through payments. There is no interest for a yr. The nurse and manager were honest and experienced. They both told me that with laser hair removal, it is a process to destroy the hair follicle in every cycle or phase. I love my legs and underarms! I can't stop referring people to American Laser Centers. The company gives me $250 for every referral. I got $700. It was mailed as a check that was issued to 'cash'. I cashed it and got CASH!!! This is for real. I questioned this company before because of all the reviews about them. Then I realized how many bad reviews were up about my company. I work for Kaiser and I'm a patient. The people who complain on the internet were probably all the managers and nurses who were terminated. One nurse told me that if the manager is not nice and firm at the same time, they will be let go. I heard that customers try to take advantage of the managers then the business starts to hurt and the manager is to blame. PEOPLE please be fair so that we can continue our treatments. This company makes smart decisions to stay in business. All the managers who I have seen have been fine.
Back to negotiating prices. Wow... huge tangent! My sister had
less hair so she only did her lower legs. She paid $180 for each appt. I did lower legs with patches done on my thighs. I paid $199 per appt. I paid a little extra for the small patches. I would have paid $210 per whole leg appt, but I decided not to. My payments through their monthly no int plan made it really affordable. I pay $36 as my min payment per month.
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Avoid American Laser Centers
Posted by
SKOKIE, ILLINOIS -- I went to American Laser Center in Skokie Illinois. I spoke with the manager and she killed me with kindness. Initially, she said because I waited, she gave me a great discount. I went to the center intending to ask about facial hair removal. However, somehow she convinved me to obtain a Microderm, so I got the package of hair removal and microdermbrasion for $1500. I was delighted because according to the manager, the original price was close to $4000 (Off course, only a lie). I'm telling you, the manager that I spoke with was just a two-face. She acts like she's your best friend, but the only thing they care about at this facility is the money that you give them, that's it.
Anyway, when I got the second microdermbrasion, the lady convinced me to buy a "Photo Facial" so again due to my gullibility, I signed up for it and charged an additional $1000 on the credit card plan. However, I came back home and did some research, and I found out that I got ripped off, and indeed I did get ripped off. I went back the next day to cancel it, and they told me they were going to charge me $300 for cancellation fees. Guess, what, they did change me the $300 for canceling my "Photo Facial".
Additionally, right after I got the second treatment for Microdermobraions, I started to flare very badly. I guess it's because I went to Mexico around that time, and I had a bad tan. However, the people didn't warn me about the consequences, and I only got two applications of Microdermbrasion, and my faced is badly damaged now, it's basically full of acne. It's also getting worse day by day. In fact, I will start on Acutene in about three weeks.
The only thing that I asked from American Laser Center is to give me a full refund for "Photo Facial" and not charge me the $300. Of course, that did not happened. I even went to the center and showed how irritated my skin was, but they still did't give a damb. I also gave them my doctor's note, yet they charged the additional $300. They ruined my skin, but I had to pay additional $300, pretty bad huh!
My package was for $1500, now I have to pay $1800 altogether. I have to say, I don't trust this company at all. They do not care about the well-being of their patients. The company only cares about how much money you give them. It's based upon deception and lie. Even their contract indirectly tells you that you may not get the results that you want.
Please avoid American Laser Center. I can't even exit the situation that I'm in. I'm basically stuck. The only thing that I did is damage my skin. Remember, I have to use one of the strongest acne medicine, Acutene, and deal with the side effects because of American Laser. I haven't even gotten an apology from the manager or the customer service center.
If you're ever thinking about doing any simple cosmetic procedures, go to the doctor instead. The doctor may charge more than this company, but you get quality work, and you won't be treated like a number or a contract. At least, the doctor won't deceive you and disappoint you the way this company would. I seriously mean this. I warned all of my friends, and warn anyone who's reading this, American Laser is the worst company that I came across. It has no regard for its customer, none whatsoever, the only thing it cares about is the sales and the money that it deceivebly receives from its victims not customer.
It's also shameful and sad that they carry the label "American" Laser. American businesses do not operate the way this company does. Perhaps Nigerian corporations operate the way American Laser does. This company does not represent America in any shape or form. It does not deserve the title it carries. It's truly conniving and deceptive.
AVOID American Laser!!!
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Anonymous on 11/05/2009:
If you're a man I would suggest shaving instead.
Anonymous on 11/06/2009:
From what I read about your issue and the procedure, it is used to remove, in SEVERAL treatments, scarring from severe acne.
It sounds as though you either did not have severe acne, and if not why would you get this procedure? Or if you did, you did not complete the program. From what I read, it is not a quick fix. It takes 4-8 sessions over 2 week intervals, so that means 8-16 weeks for the entire system.
You had 2 sessions. Which probably irritated your acne and left it irritated because you did not complete it.
I am going to read more and come back here.
Just curious, but did you research this at all before you agreed? And please don't blame the center for the fact that you signed up. Convincing or not, you can always say no.
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Don't Yell At The Customer, No Matter How Bad Your Mood Might Be That Day!
Posted by
SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- Here is the email I sent to the regional manager over the Salt Lake City downtown American Laser Center branch:
Hi Danielle,
I was told that you are the regional manager over the Salt Lake City downtown American Laser location, managed by Amy. I'd like to inform you of an incident which should be followed by employee correction action.
There was some miscommunication when I transferred my account from the Draper office to downtown SLC. I was told "You don't have to pay for parking" by one of the girls employed at the time I transferred my account to downtown. So ever since then, I have NEVER paid at the meter. So about 3 weeks ago when I had my appointment I got an expired meter ticket. I gave it to Amy and explained to her that I was told that I didn't have to pay for parking. She concurred and took the ticket and said, 'We'll take care of it for you.'
A week later I get a call from Amy telling me with a frustrated tone of voice that they wouldn't be paying for the $15 ticket. I told her that I was told that I didn't have to pay for parking. She then explained that I was allowed to park in the BACK parking lot. This was the first time I had ever heard of a back parking lot. Because of the miscommunication, I told Amy that it was American Laser Centers responsibility to pay for the ticket since NO ONE had informed me that
there was a back parking lot.
She then retaliated very rudely and said, 'Well Cristina, just so you know this is coming out of my own pocket. I hope you enjoy your weekend knowing that.' (Something to that effect). I was INFURIATED to say the least. No one has ever treated me like this being the customer.
I then called the Draper office to request that I have my account transferred back to Draper. I also requested to reschedule my appointment. They informed that they couldn't reschedule until they had my chart at their office. It has been 2 WEEKS since then and NO ONE HAS CALLED ME BACK to reschedule my appointment!!!
In addition to this nightmare I received a letter from Salt Lake City informing me that the ticket hadn't been paid! As a result, it has now been increased to $45!!! Amy lied to me and never paid for the ticket!!! THIS IS THE WORST CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE I HAVE EVER HAD!!!
Aiming for optimal customer satisfaction should be one of your goals. Apparently your managers do not understand that a happy returning customer (which I was for the last 3 YEARS!) Is far more valuable than trying to acquire more customers. They also don't understand that a bad experience is told to far more people than a good experience and believe me I have told close 20 people already who I am sure have already told many more. I was also considering buying an additional package and paying up front. Amy has made my decision for me, because there is no way that I am going back there. You do the math-you could have received $1500 in revenue from me from the package I was going to purchase or just deducted a minimal $15, which would have retained a happy customer and incremental revenue of about $1485. Obviously no one at your company understands the importance of customer relationship management.
In summary I'd like to highlight the bad customer experience milestones:
Please give a call at your earliest convenience.
On top of all this, this manager at this location does a poor job of the treatment itself. Her two other assistants have been wonderful and have done a wonderful job.
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Anonymous on 02/25/2009:
I hope this is a joke because I can't believe that you seriously thought that you could park at a meter without feeding it, and that they would then pay your parking tickets. It boggles the mind. Did you ask them if you were late for an appointment and got a speeding ticket, if they cover those too? That seems just about as reasonable.
BokiBean on 02/25/2009:
Pay YOUR ticket.
mati82 on 02/25/2009:
I already paid it.
The point is that the MANAGER responded in a rude manner to a customer. You just don't do that. You also don't lie to a customer and not follow through (as she had promised that she would take care of the ticket).
Also, the only VISIBLE parking is in front of the building. I was also puzzled when they told me I didn't have to pay for parking when they were all meters.
Ponie on 02/25/2009:
'I was also puzzled when they told me I didn't have to pay for parking when they were all meters.' Rather than being puzzled, you should have been inquisitive and asked what was meant by that statement. I don't think you'll hear from American Laser Centers because I don't think they'll want to continue doing business with you. Pay the ticket before it *really* mounts up. If UT is anything like my state, it will eventually affect your DL.
Ponie on 02/25/2009:
OOOPS! Just reread your response. Good action on your part to pay it.
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American Laser Center was the worst experience of my life!!!
Posted by
Unhappily ripped off
TUCSON, ARIZONA -- I had problems with this company from the moment I first started going there. Besides the fact that I always sat in the waiting room for at least 20-30 minutes before I get seen. The managers were terrible. One told me that sometimes burns can happen and there is nothing they can do about. The turnover rate is so high that I never had the same person doing my treatments. One manager told me that my legs were too tan to do the treatments so they would suspend my account until my legs were less tan. Well now my "so called" warranty is over and they owe me at least 3 treatments on my legs and they will not perform them. I was told that supposedly the manager that told me that was wrong (of course she is no longer working there!) I still have hair on my legs and bikini area. It was a total waste of money! I know other people who have gone to other treatment places and have had great results. However, since the techs at American do not know what they are doing half the time they were not using the correct settings on me. One manager said no sun exposure 2 weeks before and now I was turned away because apparently no sun exposure for a month. I live in Arizona it makes it a little hard to wear pants in 100 degree weather. They are extremely unprofessional. Have no clue what is going on. The managers are as incompetent as the techs. I have seen no hair reduction at all on my upper legs because my hair is too thin. Of course they didn't tell me that when they were taking my money. BEWARE!!! This place is horrible and a total scam. Imagine going there for 2 years, still having hair on my legs and bikini spending well over $5000 and being treated like crap by unprofessional staff and managers. The worse part is I have a burn on my bikini area and the only response I have gotten is that can happen. My husband went somewhere else after I started at American. They performed different test to ensure his safety. After 6 treatments he has seen much better reduction than I have!!! DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY!!! AMERICAN LASER CENTER IS A COMPLETE RIP OFF AND MORE THAN LIKELY YOU WILL HAVE A NEW, UNTRAINED TECH PERFORMING LASER ON YOUR BODY. THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER GREAT OPTIONS IN TUCSON!!!
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Alain on 04/02/2010:
I really wouldn't like to have these folks using a laser on my body.
Soaring Consumer on 04/03/2010:
I suggest suing them in civil court for a full refund for failure to properly render services and refusal to provide services paid for, plus punitive damages for the pain and injuries resulting from their unprofessionalism.
Anonymous on 04/03/2010:
Aside from unprofessional attitudes, they are correct. Some people do get burned and there is nothing they can due to prevent it. Not everyone can have laser hair removal and it does not work for everyone no matter how many times you go. The fact that your husband had good results means his body is receptive to the treatment.
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American Laser Centers
Posted by
SCOTTSDALE, ARIZONA -- Hello, I highly recommend that no one uses American Laser Centers in Scottsdale. I used them for years on many of the treatments they offered. After going for 2 years of the hair removal and wasting my time for countless hours, it did not work. I have blonde hair and light skin. The treatment actually stimulated hair growth on my face. I spent nearly 5,000 on hair laser treatments only to be refunded 2000. They kept telling me to come back and purchase more treatments and it never worked. Secondly, they did the foto facial on me and the tech was only there for one month and permanently damaged my face with extensive hypopigmentation. I can show you pictures. Then when I called to complain to the Manager, they ignored my calls and told me the hypopimentaion was somehow ' my fault' or it was there before treatment. It was not. Coincedenitally, when I requested my medical records, they took 3 months to give them to me and when I finally did get them, my before and after photos were missing from my file and I had other peoples pictures in my file. When I tried to contact the 'doctor' affiliated with this facility, they would not let me talk with him or her or even let me know who this so-called doctor was. As to date, this 'doctor' never addressed my concerns and complaints. The prior manager from American Laser wrote me a letter after she was let go, stating that they made her ignore my complaints, concerns etc. and actually told her not to respond. She said they wanted her to give horrible customer service. Also, these services they offer- people pay different amounts. It is a joke and very upsetting to have my face permanently damaged from their techs. I even went to a BC Dermatologist of whom gave me a letter stating that the damage on my face was caused by their laser. Did they care? Absolutely not. They didn't not even refund me anything let alone offer me to be treated by a real doctor on their dollar. If you go to American Laser centers, you will be risking permanent damage to your face and risk losing thousands of dollars on treatments that do not work. Take it from someone who learned the hard way. Google American Laser, you will see extensive complaints.
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MSCANTBEWRONG on 09/15/2009:
What are the terms of the contract you signed? Is there anything in there that states a guarantee that the treatments will work? Is there anything that states if there is any damage or reaction to the treatments will not be the fault of the center or technicians?
BethanyE on 02/15/2010:
The contract states something like they are not responsible for medical treatments should something go wrong with your services through them.
SharonLB45 on 10/18/2011:
I must say I completely agree with you. I'm not sure how things work over in Scottsdale but I have been doing treatments in Orlando for more than a year now with NO DAMAGE and NO scarring. I am African American with a lot of pigment issues. The clinic customized the laser based on my settings.
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Don't Trust American Laser Centers!
Posted by
MASSACHUSETTS -- A few years ago, I went to an event in Boston where a representative from American Laser's was holding a contest for "free laser hair removal". I entered, as did my friend. I ended up receiving a phone call days later stating that I won a $300 coupon off any laser hair treatment. $300, I thought, could get buy a decent package for laswer hair removal. I never Win anything, so I decided to find out more about this "coupon" and returned the phone call. Turns out, my friend and three other girls I know, received the same exact coupon. Too late! I already got suckered into buying a laser hair removal package.
As with every other complaint against this company, the sales representative was very pushy and rude. I did not get a good vibe from the rep/manageer and should have left immediately, but the rep/manager continued to make me feel almost dumb. She continued to take off money for hair removal from my forearm/upper lip and when I said no or made an excuse (buying a home, still in school, paying student loans, really any excuse I could think of) she would give me attitude and say that this is such a good deal, I can't turn it down. Also, telling me that this "deal" is only valid that day, at that time. She almost just pulled it out of thin air, as it was not stated anywhere.
She gets care credit on the phone. Tells me I qualify for a great deal - the no APR if paid off in one year. I signed. I felt very uncertain and uneasy about the whole thing, as I found other laser hair removal companies that offer drastically lower prices. I also, like others who wrote reviews, called to get a refund, as I did NOT start services yet. No luck. I suppose I should have called the credit card company.
Anyway, I have had well over the 6 treatments and I am now into my "extra" year. Still not happy with my results. I'm very bitter with the place because of how they conned me into this, plus it's very time consuming, making the trip back and forth. I also do not think the techs are very professional. It never seems busy in there, yet I am always waiting. I already paid it off and I will use their 2 year guarantee, but every time I go in, they make it seem like my fault that the hair is not completely gone, yet.
The kicker is, they are still trying to sell me services!! Telling me the manager has all kinds of coupons and then offering me hair removal at ridiculous prices. I now know to just say NO! I don't even feel badly and almost laugh when they try to offer me more. WHY would I buy more when it clearly hasn't worked!?!?!!
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madconsumer on 01/21/2009:
great review.
very helpful.
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American Laser Center False Guarantee
Posted by
DULUTH, GEORGIA -- My month and I were approached by a consultant for American Laser Center, at a Bridal show we had attended back in January 2005. Skeptical, she wanted to speak with a president or person of higher authority. If you plan on spending money, you don't want to take a loss for something that certainly doesn't work.
We finally purchased a package in September 2005, as they promised me results by my wedding, which was the following month. That was a lie.
It has been 3 years since I have started my treatment. Every time I go in, the person never treats the same area, that I paid for. When I complain, I am told that I would have to buy another package to get treated in nearby areas. I find that rather deceptive.
For those of you who have PCOS and have the embarrassment of facial hair, do not fall for American Laser Center telling you, we have treated many women with PCOS and they no longer have facial hair. Trust me, I am not the only woman out there who has had a bad experience with American Laser.
American Laser also promised me that after my 3rd treatment, I would have to us my personal trimmer to get rid of hair, as often as I would. It would be a monthly thing, no longer a weekly thing. Deceptive once again.
They have a 2 year guarantee, they will touch up areas for no charge. Well, its been 3 years and I haven't seen the results I was promised.
If you plan on getting pregnant, they do not cover any hair that grows back in the treated area, during your pregnancy. So, there guarantee is false. You will never have hair grow back in treated areas. This is want the stress when they first approach you.
Every time I have been in for an appointment, they try to get me to agree to them to treat other areas and that I can get this Care Credit to cover it. Why would I want to spend more money on a product that I have not see results with? Then they try to tell me that I need some other treatment, to help the laser remove my hair for good. So, another $2,000 they want me to spend on a product. I think not.
If you have considered Laser hair removal through American Laser, reconsider and go elsewhere. I honestly do not know if there is a "honest" laser service out there that will live up to its promise.
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madconsumer on 10/11/2008:
sad that laser hair removal really does not work. sounds promising though.
great review.
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