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Empire Today Disgracefully Dishonest - Company Responds
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face it
MORAINE, OHIO -- I answered an add on craiglist almost 2 years ago. I get a call from Empire somewhere around Mid June of 2011. I meet with the "manager" to discuss the possibility of working for them as a sub contractor. I was asked to sign countless pages of a so called "agreement", never once being shown what I was signing. I had to fill out there ridiculous forms no less than 3 separate times. Each time I would ask "What is this for"? I was told some sort of different excuse each time. The first job I was to do for Empire, the temporary installation manager comes out to the warehouse with a blank paper with nothing more than a line for a signature. He said to me "Here you need to sign this before you start to do any work". Again I asked why, he explained it was just a technicality and that this form appears to have been lost and they need another copy of it. I loaded material to go to first job, Laminate flooring, and arriving at the job I noticed several details the sales person overlooked. After starting to lay out the material I realized the laminate was defective. The planks/panels where not milled properly, they wear out of square and when you put the planks together it would leave uneven gaps between the planks. I called to explain this to Empire, They wanted me to continue installing the product telling me "this is typical of this product, it's fine". I refused to continue and returned to the shop to show Empire first hand how bad the material was. There is day 1 where I invested time and was paid nothing for my time and expenses. A couple of days after that I was told they sent another crew out with the same material and they installed it, telling me that next time I have that situation to tell the customer "that is the nature of this product". Second job, I arrive at the customers house immediately seeing that the salesperson failed to accurately evaluate the scope of work. After about 2 hours of calling back and forth to Empire They finally contacted the customer and worked out a deal for additional money to correct the sales persons improper evaluation. This is job #2 that nothing additional was paid to me for the extra time spent correcting there mistakes. The third job I was dispatched to, we arrive to find 3/4" hardwood glued to concrete. Which the homeowner was to have torn out himself. The customer informed us that he worked on tearing out the floor for 3 days and finally gave up. Once again I spend hours calling back and forth to Empire to try to correct this issue. Which did not only refer to the fact the floor was not taken up, but the salesperson wrote on the work order that "glue may need to be scraped up in some areas". Again another over site by the sales person. The installation manager tells me "do what you need to do and we will pay you very well for the extra time" and also promised me that I would be paid the following Friday as I had to spend money out of my own pocket to buy the proper leveling compound to be able to properly install their new floor. That Friday came, and no check. I was told there "policy" does not allow for a contractor to be paid outside of there "scheduled pay period" This is job #3 involving a lot of extra time, and even money out of my own pocket that I was never reimbursed for. And what little I was paid was not paid to me on time as promised. Then the next job I was sent to I was told "We got you a real good job to help me make up for the money lost on the last few" I look at the stack of material and it is 3/4" solid Brazilian Cherry, and several buckets of glue. I informed them that you DO NOT GLUE DOWN 3/4" SOLID WOOD!(common knowledge/industry standard) The installation managers response, after I asked for an in writing guarantee that I would not be charged for this job after it fails, "it is in your contract, Empire will replace it at no cost to you". Arriving at the job site we notice that there is asbestos tile threw out the entire house. This is a type 1 asbestos that is only considered harmful if it is broken/cracked visibly degraded. In this situation the asbestos was in very poor condition and a danger to anyone in the home. I was first told "come back to the s hop and get a leveling compound/patch to cover all the asbestos tile (which is acceptable if the asbestos containing material is in good shape) Only after they realized that I was sent to the job with the incorrect flooring material (the 3/4" wood I pointed out from the very beginning) was I told to leave the job site. The next day about noon I was called by Empire demanding that I go back out to the job site and remove the carpet so I could save the job for Empire and they would not lose this customer. I again explained the condition of the asbestos and I went on to explain that if I removed the carpet it would disturb the degraded asbestos underneath of it putting myself and the occupants of the home in real danger and the response I got was "you will only crack the tile a little bit here and there when you pull the tack strip up" I said no I am not comfortable doing that. Not 15 minutes later the same guy from Empire calls me again. "We really need you to go out and save this job for us, we really got egg on our faces over this one" I again said no, to which he told me "come on and do this for us and you can put a feather in your cap and if you don't do it you will be blacklisted" To which I responded "if that's how you need it to be, fine!" and hung up. This is job #4 that I was never paid anything for the time invested (about 4 hours) loading material in and out of the customers house and countless phone calls back and forth to Empire while stuck at the job site.
To any customer thinking about having Empire out to your home, I hope this gives you a small look behind the scenes and what goes on there.
I am not looking to get millions of dollars from them, I simply want what is rightfully owed to me. They have been reported to OSHA, The Federal Trade Commission, The Bureau of Workmans Comp, The Attorney General of Ohio, and to all of the local news "trouble shooters". I will not rest until Empire is forced to close there doors!
I was never shown a "price list" there pay scale was never disclosed to me, I was asked to sign countless papers with no explanation of what they wear or why I needed to sign them, I was given an excuse for everything, lied to countless times, and not paid for my time and efforts. I was told by the general manager of this Empire location that "there are costs to doing business" and I was told every excuse as to why they could not pay me.
The office staff at this location is without a doubt the most unorganized mislead group of individuals I have ever had the misfortune of meeting. One person will tell you one thing, then the next person tell you something completely different. I urge all potential customers and/or contractors thinking of getting involved with Empire to take a good long look at not only this review but the countless others out there. They advertise in such a way as to make people believe they are saving money buy using Empire, when in reality they are spending more!
places like Empire are driving skilled trades people to work for minimum wage and introducing less skilled people into the trade due to there ridiculously low pay scales.
Company Response 1/24/2012:
We apologize if you felt you did not have a positive experience while working as an independent contractor. While we strive to create a positive atmosphere for all our contractors, misunderstandings can occur and we are happy to help address and resolve this issue.
We are confident that all work performed is in accordance with local regulations and accepted industry standards and we continuously strive to provide exceptional service for our customers.
Please feel free to contact Steven Jedras at 888-583-3000 x4345 to further discuss and resolve your concerns.
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Venice09 on 01/22/2012:
If this review isn't enough to stop people from using Empire, then I have a bridge for sale!
face it on 01/24/2012:
I fully expected such a response from Empire. I have no interest in listening to any more of your lies and BS. The action that needs to be taken has nothing to do with calling your call center, I am sure you are not ethically "big" enough to apologize and to correct your wrong doing . So yet another phone call, on your terms, is not going to fix anything. You got some nerve to ask me to call you to fix your short comings. Your form of "damage control" (companies response) is shallow at best. After the problems you have caused me and the utter lack of respect for my well being will not be swept under the rug and forgotten by simply calling your call center. You must follow the same laws and regulations that everyone else does, your policies do not exclude you from being liable for theft and purposely placing people in danger. And your confidence is blatantly misguided. It sounds as if you are saying what I said is not true. I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO GO THERE!!
face it on 01/31/2012:
Update: After writing this review I received a packet in the mail from Empire containing a contractor agreement. The details of which I can not disclose due to legal issues. I can say that there are several "areas" of their own outlined procedures that where not observed.
Secondly I got a letter from OSHA in regards to the complaint filed against them. Empire essentially denies that I was ever at this job site. And they admit to sending yet another crew to the site containing a known physical hazard. If this is a simple lack of professionalism (losing the proper records) or an act of trying to cover up there activity, either way is proof proper of the inner workings of Empire.
trmn8r on 01/31/2012:
This review doesn't shock me. There are many homes with asbestos-containing tile that were installed in the 60's. Unless a worker is experienced enough to know on sight that a tile contains asbestos, if there is any question it should be tested.
In a business like this, it is probably rush-rush to get this job done and move to the next. But you can't disturb asbestos-containing tile, regardless of what the clock on the wall says.
face it on 02/03/2012:
Yes trmn8r you are correct that a business like this is all about rush-rush. Which is yet another reason for everyone to steer clear of such a place. There contractors work for pennies and there focus is quantity over quality.
Venice09 on 02/03/2012:
This is a great informative. I hope anyone considering Empire sees this before using them. Thanks for all the updates, face it.
face it on 02/04/2012:
You are most welcome Venice09. I only hope that people will see this information before spending there hard earned money with Empire. Or worst yet think about working for them. I urge you to spread this information to everyone you know. A complete boycott of these types of companies is the only way to get rid of them.
madconsumer on 02/05/2012:
there are hundreds more satisfied customers of empire for every one complaint.
thank you for your company response empire!!!
Venice09 on 02/05/2012:
How do you know that, madconsumer? Their rating here is pretty low. That indicates there are plenty of dissatisfied customers. All one has to do is read some of the reviews to know that Empire is not to be trusted.
face it on 02/05/2012:
I refuse to be drawn into a debate about opinion. I know what I know because I have seen it first hand. If you are so sold on a company with this type of reputation, go ahead call them. Then lets see what your opinion is after that. Is it possible that Empire has a satisfied customer somewhere out there? sure, like the first couple jobs I did for them. I went way above and beyond to make sure the customer was happy. But on an average you are taking a gamble dealing with a place like Empire. You may get someone skilled in your home that does a great job, but I would not count on it. Aside from the material they make/endorse/sell being the worst I have seen in my 24 years in the business, the fact that they charge as much if not more than other places and they pay there people so little is the perfect situation to have unskilled labor in your home. And all the time the customer is believing the commercials thinking they are getting top quality material and workmanship. When a simple search on google will prove that is not true.
Old Timer on 02/05/2012:
Face it, you have a valid complaint and insider knowledge about a company that has a horrible customer service record. Don't let anyone on this site try and post otherwise. Thanks for taking so much time to post the facts and not just some off the wall unsubstantiated personal opinion. I find it funny that the Whiners Board has the first dozen or so listings about this foul company. Let's see what gets copy and pasted by the Basher Queen over there on this one now? (it's really not worth any ones time with an IQ over their age)
A Google search of "Empire Carpet complaints" brings back over 242,000 results. Yeah, I guess those 242,000 people can't be judged as "satisfied". Sometimes I just have to roll my eyes with what's posted around here.
+100 Venice!
(seven + votes so far and counting, yep Empire feels the love)
Old Timer on 02/05/2012:
Oh yeah, GO PAT's!
face it on 02/05/2012:
For anyone reading this that knows flooring. The first job I was sent to for Empire, the tile guys (that's right they send multiple crews out to the same site) put the tile underlayment (durarock concrete board) down with a cordless finish nailer!!! There's some quality for ya!
Venice09 on 02/05/2012:
Actually, I have to thank madconsumer for posting that comment because it's helping this review get the attention it deserves and hopefully more helpful votes.
Anyone who falls for Empire's commercials... Well, I still have that bridge for sale!
Chrissiann on 02/10/2012:
Thank you. I will certainly avoid Empire!
iieee on 02/10/2012:
face it, you deserve a medal for public service! I will be sure to share this information with everyone I know!! thank you. =)
Jim on 02/10/2012:
I had the salesman here and wanted the carpet to meet tile in a curve. I got a price. I asked, "How do the curve it?" "I don't know. I'm not a carpet installer." "Then how can you give me a price if you don't know the materials etc." I also got a price on doing my stairs and hallway in rug. It turned out cheaper to do hall in ceramic tile and stairs in vinyl (last forever and no cleaning bill) laid on cement board with thin set. So, no bargains here.
face it on 02/12/2012:
Thank you iieee. I think it worthwhile to take any steps I can to inform people what they can expect when I have information I feel is of value to potential customers (victims if you will) of Empire (and/or any other place taking advantage of there customers/contractors)
Also what I post is of actual experience, not a "guesstimation" or "opinion". My objective is 100% to give people reliable information.
With that being said I also suffer from the "human condition" meaning I am not perfect. I have made mistakes, but never once has a customer been left "holding the bag" due to my mistake. Or a contractor. It all boils down to what's right is right.
I only wish this review , as well as the countless others out there, where available to people before they have a complaint. Which results in an internet search and leads to reviews like this and yet another comment " I wish I would have seen this before I bought from them".
With the current state of the economy, in regards to the construction industry, things are tough enough out there without companies like this flooding people with advertising suggesting they will save the customer money. When in reality the customer is charged more than if they hired a private market contractor, which as a result helps to fuel the "local" economy. As long as they are still collecting payments and flooding the market with misleading advertising they have no need to change how they do things. The only way to get there attention and make them liable for there actions is to stop buying from them. pretty simple really, if they are not profiting there out of business.
I do appreciate the efforts of each and every person reading this to do your part and spread the word.
raven2010 on 02/12/2012:
This company runs commercials in my area as much as Ashley furniture does. I think they are both "high volume low quality" shops.
Kathy on 02/14/2012:
What a piece of crap company. The commercials are a joke to begin with but pretty much tell the truth it seems. Walk in slap down whatever over whatever. No thanks. Will continue to deal with REPUTABLE private contractors.
face it on 02/20/2012:
Update: I looked on several other sites in regards to Empire Today complaints. All of the reviews/complaints by employees/contractors that had a company response where "scripted" meaning that every single one of them said "We apologize if you felt you did not have a positive experience while working as an independent contractor. While we strive to create a positive atmosphere for all our contractors, misunderstandings can occur and we are happy to help address and resolve this issue." For Empire to have such a "scripted response" can only mean that they have such a large amount of complaints against them that they wear forced to come up with an "one response fits all" script. For one or two people/customers/employees/contractors to have some sort of a complaint is to be expected from any "larger" company. But the countless amount of complaints against this company, and not to mention my first hand experience with them actually seeing how they treat there customers/contractors, has got to raise a red flag!
By no means do I mean to disrespect any customers that have given Empire a positive review, but I wonder, do these people really know what they are looking at? Of course when something goes in new there is that moment of "Oh that looks so nice" but in reality do you know the actual quality of the product installed? Myself being a hard surface installer (hardwood,tile,laminate not carpet ,vinyl, etc.) I can only speak of the products I have worked with via Empire. I can say without reserve that the product supplied by Empire is the lowest possible grade or quality. Every laminate product I came in contact with was MADE IN CHINA with EMPIRE name printed on the side of the box. To explain this in more detail, in my 23-24 years in the flooring industry I have had countless opportunities to install imported (made in China, made in Mexico, etc.) products. Each and every time finding that the quality just is not there. Issues ranging from improper milling to finish issues to damaged material. To be fair I have seen made in the USA material that has also had similar issues. But the made in USA material issues are almost always due to improper handling (fork lift gouges,etc.)
I would invite any customer/contractor reading this to contact me in regards to your interest in joining a class action lawsuit against Empire for false advertising, unfair business practices,etc. My goal is not to profit from this action ( I do not want there dirty money) I want Empire to be made liable for there actions and for them to be forced to close there doors! I am reaching out to anyone reading this to NOT PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM EMPIRE. There adds are purposely ment to make customers believe they are getting top quality materials at incredibly low prices. This can not be any more untrue, a simple internet search will prove customer satisfaction is staggeringly low. And in regards to pricing a few quick visits to any local retailer will prove that Empire offers no real value in terms of discounts or so called sales. They bombard people with there advertising claiming to offer such great savings. First of all those TV adds are not free, someone somewhere is paying for those. DON'T LET IT BE YOU!!!
face it on 02/27/2012:
Empire still is trying to recruit installers. Here is a link to a Craigslist add (http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/trd/2871212727.html) Notice the direct statements in this add in regards to the amount of training provided by Empire.
Queen bee on 03/12/2012:
Thanks to all of you for your comments. I was just about to pick up the phone and dial that singing phone number. Then something whispered in my ear, investigate before you invest. Next time, I will turn down the volume on that commercial.
face it on 03/16/2012:
Somewhat inline with this review: I found a very interesting review from the point of view of the sales staff of Empire. Very interesting reading: Pros
If you have connections with property managers, builders, etc, there is an opportunity to create decent income.
Could be decent for part-time second job if the local managers will give decent leads to part-timers.
The company does not care about sales contractors. It's your time and your gas, they have no problem sending you on nowhere appointments.
You must keep track of each of your orders and how much you should be paid, if you don't, there will be jobs that you will not be paid for.
Promotions are always priced based, but the quotes we provide are typically higher than the competitors. Contractors are expected to build value in the home, but people make appointments with Empire because the advertisement looks like price is the key.
Archaic paperwork, extremely behind the times in technology.
Flooring products are not very attractive. Even working for the company, I had new flooring installed by another company.
Poor compensation, no benefits. My best week was probably $900, during the honeymoon phase, and it was down hill after that. Some weeks no pay, some weeks $200. With gas being over $3.50 and with the company not providing ANY benefits whatsoever, you need to make $90,000 with Empire to be at the same level as a person with a regular sales job making $55,000 with medical benefits, 401k, gas reimbursement, etc.
Sales and office managers dishonest and disrespectful.
Extremely high turnover (higher than life insurance sales). I think the business model is to bring in people, let them have a decent month or two, knowing that it will not last, then have the next new rep waiting in the wings as you flame out.
If you question ANYTHING, your leads will be cut immediately, but the expectation is that you will still be available for Empire whenever the managers feel like tossing a lead your way.
Very long hours when you are receiving leads.
Advice to Senior Management
Senior management should do an undercover boss scenario. Give up their existing salary for two months, and work as a rep. The first month will be OK, honeymoon still. Second month will give you an opportunity to see what its really like.
Send a clear message to consumers and at the same time help the reps. If Empire advertises on price, sell on price. If value is the focus to justify a higher price, then build that value into the advertising. None of the promotions (70% off, buy 2 rooms get the rest of the house free, etc) accurately reflect what the customer thinks they will get when they set an appointment.
Empire is ripping off their sales reps ad contract on 11/29/2012:
OK let me say this because I'm looking to speak with an attorney. I was hired as a sells independent contractor. When I first was hired on it was explained to me that it was strictly commissioned based but was told that it wouldn't matter because u make money for each sell u close.
They had training and it was an informative training for the product but also very informative on how to sell their product. They pay u 300 a week for the training which is 2 weeks and pay an additional 300 for 2 more weeks to get u started. Sounds good so far, right?
Well I was out of work prior to being contracted to work for empire. So when I started training with them I was flat broke. I had to scrap together gas money to go to training everyday which was located about an hour to a hour and a half away in traffic. Literally it cost me 20 dollars a day to get there 5 days a week. And they don't pay u the first week they wait a week before like u are an employee and pay u.
I had to sign all this paperwork to say I'm an independent contractor so they legally on their end would be covered but was never informed of all that I was signing, not to mention I had to repeat paperwork and tons of it twice.
When I finally started receiving leads I noticed that hey this is on their time and not my time. Leads are distributed in the morning and afternoon. U may get one as early as 9am and one as late as 7pm. U are made to come in the office every week twice a week and also bring paperwork from the sell in no later than 2 or 3 days after the sell.
As an independent contractor I finally have read my rights on how business is to be conducted between the 2 parties myself and Empire. Number 1 as an independent contractor I am not supposed to be trained on how they do it but to be contracted on my work capabilites. 2nd, as an independent contractor I am supposed to work my own hours at my own pace but I work Empires hours and at their pace. If u can't make appointments (mainly because of the cost of gas and u haveno money) they will cut u off not to mention tell u when u take off u need to let the whole entire management team know (sounds like a job to me). U have to request time off as well. U have to practice scripted lines and know them word for word. And 3rd the pay is not what they exceed it to be. Yeah if u worked for them for a while and have a proven track record with them u can make money (they take care of the veteran sell reps). But if u are trying to get your foot in the door then be prepared to take the left over leads that the vet sell reps don't want or won't take (which is 1 room of carpet or 1 room of flooring). U have to sell the product at a high cost just to qualify for commission on that sell and if u sell it below the 4 percent mark then u won't be paid on it even though u went to the sell and sold the sell (its hard to sell 2000 dollars to a customer that has 1 room to be done not to mention they are looking for the lowest price since they already know the Empire negotiates all prices). Lastly don't forget the times u get to a customers house and they are not there. U literally have to take a picture of their address to prove u went to the customers house. So now u have wasted gas, your time and money.
Bottom line is u really aren't an independent sells contractor. U follow their rules when working for this company. They don't live up to what u can make financially and they don't pay u for the job u sell because its under a certain percentage. They don't care if u stay with it or not because they do a new hire every month with the same admirations. My opinion is they hire new people every month to take away the little petty jobs from the vets so that they can focus on the bigger paid sells. Leaving the new hires with the smaller sometimes unpaid jobs for which they take on.
This company in my opinion is a ripp off to their independent contractors as well as their customers. Also since I am signed as an independent contractor then I should be treated as such and not penalized for me doing my job. I will be talking with an employee attorney just because I am signed on as a contractor I am still made to work under their rules and their rules only
Lana on 08/14/2014:
Wanted to share my experience with Empire Carpet in Colorado with any other consumers who are thinking about using them for your carpet purchase/installation. DO NOT USE THIS COMPANY!!! This was the worst experience ever – it made buying a new car seem like a dream!
First off, I cancelled my appointment, but the salesman still showed up. Since he was there, I let him come in and show me what Empire had to offer. We had already had two other bids, and were pretty set that we were going with another company. After talking to him, looking at the samples and having him measure my home, his price $1,100 higher than the other company we were going to use. He told me that he would match that price, that the price included furniture moving, AND he could get me started that Friday/Saturday. I asked for his price in writing (which was $5,199), and received it in writing the next day. I felt it was a pretty food deal, so decided to go with Empire.
He came over the next night (Thursday) and I signed the paperwork. He then told me that Friday would no longer work for installation. I said then I would have to wait for a few weeks then due to our schedules. He said they would do it Saturday/Sunday instead. I said that was fine.
Saturday morning at 8:00am the phone rings. It was Empire calling to let me know that the carpet I chose was not in stock. Strike 1. I told them that I was going to go ahead and exercise my right to cancel the contract (I had 3 buisiness days) – she told me they would give me a different carpet (the next level upgrade and a moisture barrier pad). I said fine. Chose a carpet and they arrived about 10:00am that morning to install. (We had already cleared one room of furniture ourselves to help the installers and to try to move things on a bit quicker)
When the installers arrived, they called the office to process our payment – the office tried 3 times but could not get the payment processed off our debit card. I then gave them a check from the same account and it went through fine… to me, this was Strike 2. The installers told us that our home was going to be a 2-day job, and that they did not work Sundays and that they would have to finish on Monday. Strike 3. I immediately called the installation center and told them what I was told – and that my salesperson had told me originally Fri/Sat and then changed in to Sat/Sun. I told them they needed to figure it out or we would be sending these guys away (even though furniture was already moved). I told them it was not acceptable to have the job finished on Monday – and if they had to do that – that Empire would compensate us for having to miss a day of work. After and hour and a half – they assured me that someone would be out Sunday morning to finish the job. While on the phone with customer service, I asked the price of the carpet that we were changed to – and the sales rep told me that it would cost $4989 for that carpet in my home – which was LESS than what I was paying. I asked for the cost of the original carpet I ordered and it was $5300 – which was $1,200 less than the original price he quoted me BEFORE he matched my other offer – so…. He quoted me more than it would have even cost if I went with his original offer! AND…. The upgraded padding I was told I would get – DID NOT GET (Strike 4)!!!!! The installers also told us that they were told this was an empty house and that there was no furniture to be moved, and they didn't have enough workers to help move. Therefore, NO ONE helped with the furniture moving – we did it all ourselves – when I told customer service this, they said they would compensate us $125 for moving the furniture (2 days and 6 rooms worth of furniture – because the Sunday installers did not help either!)
When Sunday morning rolled around – no one had called or shown up – so I called the installation manager to find out when someone could be expected. She called back and said the original guys she had told top come out were not answering – so she had to call another crew. By noon – they finally got there.
They finished at 5:00pm – then my husband and I were left to move all the furniture back.
This was the most horrific experience ever!! To be WAY over charged ($1200), to not have the carpet in stock that we ordered and find out the day of installation, to have them not know how to process a payment, to have the installers show up (to what they were told was an empty house) not expecting to move furniture, and telling us that they would not be back until Monday, to not getting the "upgraded pad", the Sunday installers not showing up until noon, to having to move everything ourselves – Please re-think your options! Everything they promise is not what you are going to get – you will eventually get nice carpet – but not without hassle and many headaches!
Empire Today Customer Support on 08/15/2014:
Thanks for bringing your concerns to our attention, Lana. We regret the delays in your installation and any inconveniences that occurred as a result. We would like to ensure that all of your concerns are being addressed and resolved to your satisfaction, and we would be happy to review your pricing in more detail. We will be following up with you shortly to discuss your experience in more detail. Thank you. Jeanette Ramey, National Customer Service Manager
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Posted by
We need to replace our basement carpet and scheduled an appointment with Empire Carpets online. Sales person shows up with polyester carpet touting them as the best. Not true, Nylon is better. He measured our basement at 630 sqft which was about 150 sqft over the actual and never gave us his dimensions. The price quoted was $2200. We had two local shops come by and give us an estimate. They both came up with the correct square footage (580 sqft) and a much lower price that included nylon carpet with a heavier face weight. To add insult to injury the Empire guy wanted $50 as a refundale deposit to lock in the price. When I inquired more on the conditions of the refund, he said that I would have to ask for the refund within three days.
My advice. Shop around and stay away from Empire. There are lots of better option out there.
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MSCANTBEWRONG on 06/15/2009:
Thank you for the post. It was a very smart move to get additional quotes. I'm glad you had the forethought to do so and got a better deal!
Lifemates on 09/16/2010:
a 150 sqft misquote is very off especially considering the size of your basement.
dan gordon on 11/15/2010:
first of all Empire doesn't even give you sf pricing. Figuring sf isn't the same when ordering flooring that comes in 12 ft widths. You can often need more than the sf you think due to seams etc. Its hard to compare when they give you a total 'installed' price.
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Pushy, Unprofessional Salesman
Posted by
We requested a 'free estimate' from Empire Carpet to install berber rugs in our 2nd floor bedrooms and hallway. The salesman showed up ontime and was friendly and personable at first. After he took the measurements we sat down at the kitchen table to look at samples. Before he went out to the car he asked me which kind of carpet I wanted. I said berber so he brought back a book for berber that contained 9 different colors and a book for plush (which is the complete opposite). The samples only have Empire Carpet's logo on them and not the actual manufacturer's name. In the commercials and on the web site, Empire claims they carry all of the popular brands but won't tell you which on is which.
The salesman starts writing down a bunch of numbers on a blank sheet of paper. He starts by telling me "Here is the regular price and here is the deal I'm going to give you". The regular price was around $2000 and his price was $1600. When I asked him if "His Price" was part of the 60% deal that is always advertised on the web-site, he wouldn't give me a straight answer.
This was the first quote we had seen and we weren't sure if it was fair or not so we wanted to continue with seeking other estimates. He explained to us that the process is very simple. The installers will come on the day we schedule and all we have to do is hand them our credit card before they start their work... Oh and we have to cut him a $100 deposit on the spot to secure the deal and the appointment, all before anyone does any work. Is this typical? He assured us that we would get our deposit back if we cancelled within 3 days. As soon as we said no, we're not committing today, he flipped a switch and his nice guy salesman attitude turned hostile. He started yelling "You're going to make me drive back here again to collect my deposit?!" First off all, what makes you think I'm going to call you back after that outburst. He might have had a chance with us if he didn't have a reaction like that.
So after he started talking in circles for several minutes to get us to change our mind and he realized we weren't going to, he angrily gathered up his weak samples and stuffed my estimate in his briefcase. When I asked him for a copy of my estimate he snapped at me and said "You know what the price is, it's $1588!" And then he let himself out. He then sat in his car in my driveway for another 4 minutes thinking that I was going to run out there with a check after all that.
I became obsessed with the experience and searched the internet to find that hundreds of people around the country had the same experience. How is this company rated A+ with the BBB? I've read other reviews about people who have actually used Empire and the installation quality had a lot of issues too.
I ended up going with a local flooring company and the salesman took the time to explain to me that since I'm putting carpet down for the first time (over hardwood) that I would need to shave the bottom of my closet and bedroom doors because of the padding and carpet will elevate the floor making them difficult to close. He also explained the difference of going with carpet that comes off a smaller roll which means I'd have seams that could come apart over time vs. a larger roll where I'd be paying for more due to a lot of waste. I will always stick with local small businesses in the future and will gladly pay an extra couple of hundred dollars if I have to, to know that my money is going to an honest hard working professional.
Company Response 12/21/2010:
Thank you for bringing your sales experience to our attention. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you. We are dedicated to service and satisfaction; please contact us at 800-588-2300 to assist you.
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Disaster Worker on 12/20/2010:
Good post. You are correct. Here on this site alone we've seen the same behavior cited. Glad you didn't go with them. I wonder if they actually train their salespeople to become pushy. I remember one post that said they almost had to call the police to get the salesperson out of their home.
Venice09 on 12/20/2010:
If that's what it took to get you use a local business, it was worth it. I don't think I would want to sit down alone with one of these Empire salesmen. I'd want backup.
GoLocalSmallBusiness on 12/21/2010:
I received a call from the salesman's boss to follow up on my appointment to "see what they could due to get this work done for me" and that he wanted to see if his salesman was doing his job properly and answered all of my questions. Unfortunately I was on another call so it went to my voicemail. I called back and got his voicemail. I advised him that I would not be using empire to carpet my home but I would be more than happy to provide some feedback on his salesman. I haven't heard back...
Venice09 on 12/21/2010:
You probably won't, but just in case you do hear back, let us know how it goes.
GoLocalSmallBusiness on 02/08/2011:
A month after this whole experience I have started to receive calls from this furniture and carpet cleaning company telling me that a friend or family member (funny they can't tell me who) has used their cleaning service and given me a free coupon for one free carpet cleaning or piece of furniture. I'm almost certain that Empire Carpet sold them my information. I won't dare let them step foot in my house...
face it on 02/23/2012:
Thank you for this review Golocalsmallbusiness. Your opinion and the information you provided is appreciated. I hope that everyone thinking of shopping with Empire reads this. Being a small business owner myself I am glad to see that the actions of companies like Empire do not go unnoticed by consumers.
Melissa on 06/22/2012:
Wow, I had the same experience just a few months ago, including him sitting in car and yelling about driving back. He also threatened me that if I didn't accept the offer on the spot that the price would go up a lot once he left my house. No thank you!
Nick on 11/29/2012:
This is Soooooo funny! I just had this same bull pulled on me today! No way I will buy from them ever
Patti on 06/18/2013:
We also had a terrrible experience with Empire carpeting. The salesman was EXTREMELY pushy but we went ahead and ordered the carpet. When they brought the carpet and pad - it was a JOKE. Not even close to the sample he showed us. We refused the whole thing and cancelled the order. The salesman flipped out on us when we told him the carpet was junk. We ended up getting the carpet from a small local company that did a great job and the quality was excellent. Also the price was half the cost of Empire..... They are selling junk for double the price....BEWARE.........
Donald D. on 08/16/2013:
I had Empire install a carpet about three years ago in my living room and one of the very first things we noticed when we vacuumed it that the bag was full of carpet fibers! This was supposed to be a mid grade carpet and I thought because it was new this would be normal at first. Guess what? After MANY vacuum jobs this carpet kept shedding fibers and kept filling up our upright vacuum cleaner bag! I think after about the tenth time vacuuming(spell?) it only filled up about half of the vacuum bag. Now the carpet is fraying at the carpet to vinyl flooring metal strip. Poor quality material at a not so cheap price of around $1650. For a 14x 17 room. The carpet pad was a high grade and the vacuum is a Kenmore consumer report recommended vacuum cleaner, which is around 4 years old now.
lisa on 09/28/2013:
I will NEVER order or use this companies services again!!! The first sales guy was awful,second guy came out and was nice. But they have done nothing but lie and give me false information.
First, they tell me I don't have to pull old carpet up then they get there, and tell my kids it was supposed to be done.
They did not install my carpet the next day. I waited a week because they overbooked.
I will never ever use or recommend this company again!!!
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Free estimate! Beware, nothing in life is free!!
Posted by
FLORIDA -- So I set up an appointment for a FREE estimate on carpet and installation. The scheduled time window was from 3 to 5 pm. The salesperson came at about 4:30. He looked around, took some measurements and asked some questions. He went to his car and brought in 4 samples. That's it. When I asked about price he steered clear of answering. When I asked about manufactures, again he avoided answering. I knew only one of the samples was near what I could afford. still he quoted two. I asked about the manufacturer and price, again he danced around answering the questions. Finally I get a quote. That's what I was waiting for. Still no manufacturer. Then he proceeds to tell me that it's a free estimate, but for his time because he did come out here...He saw my face, slightly appalled I imagine, and said "let me start over. Forget I said That." Like I am really going to forget that he said that. He wanted a fifty dollar deposit. But all I wanted was an estimate. I rushed out the door to make it to my new house on time, assuming he may have done the same. I don't live there yet, because I need Carpet, so I didn't have a way to do a deposit. He goes outside to call his boss. Of course I eavesdropped the best I could without getting up. He comes back in and says his boss will let me do it with no deposit and knocked $261 off estimate. Why not give me that price to begin with? I'm still a little confused as to why I needed to place a deposit on estimated work, while I planned on still looking around. Then it comes, what day do you want to install it? I was placing an order. Since "I am not ready to decide yet" was not an acceptable, I let him proceed. If he wants to waste my time, I can waste his. It's now 6 pm. I'm hungry, I had errands to still do and I'm falling behind schedule. I decided to let him do whatever he was trying to do.
As I read the paper, I find after 3 days, I am in a binding contract that if I do cancel I am responsible to pay 15% of the estimated price. I had him write on the contract that I can cancel without penalty any time before the day of installation. Still I proceeded. After all the paper work was done and he was collecting his 4 samples and briefcase I asked again who is the manufacturer? "Oh, I don't know." wow. I looked at him..."Let me look it up." Finally "SHAW" When I went home and researched the carpet he pushed my way and no where does it say the KEEPSAKE II is a Shaw carpet, In fact I can't find it anywhere. Needless to say I cancelled the VERY NEXT DAY. All it cost me was a few minutes on the phone and a postage stamp. If only my estimate was that simple.
Company Response 10/13/2010:
Thank you for bringing your sales experience to our attention. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you. We are dedicated to service and satisfaction; please contact us at 800-588-2300 to assist you.
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Anonymous on 10/12/2010:
Have you tried Lowes Crazy J?
Skye on 10/12/2010:
True, nothing in life is free. The moment he began to avoid your questions, you of showed him to the door, and politely said, thank you for your free estimate, I'll be in touch. End of story. You don't owe him anything, but he is going to do whatever he can to make a sale. You are the adult, you are in control. Please have some dinner and enjoy the rest of your evening.
dan gordon on 10/13/2010:
I worked in wholesale floorcovering for 20 yrs. There are only two mfcts Mohawk or Shaw. Empire does not employ salespeople. They hire 'independent contractors' who can negotiate their own pricing. They operate as high pressure one stop close type procedures. Ridiculous advertising etc etc. Do you really think you buy one room and get two rooms free??? Go to a local place, not a box store. Empires markups are probably some of the highest in the industry. No low price comparison since everything is private labeled anyway.
chrissiann on 10/30/2010:
This type of scheme: offering something free, avoiding questions, "talking to boss on phone" and then "knocking down the price," pushing for quick order -- these are ALL tricks of unreputable businesses. Too often "businesses" that engage in these types of techniques are fly-by-night scams that bait-n-switch, are evasive and pressure the victim for an order/cash quickly because they know they will not be around very long. They are trying to maximize their profits as quickly as possible - without delivering - before they change "company" name and start the scheme again under a different name. Avoid this "company" at all costs. And be able to recognize them again when they are under a different name.
imperial357 on 11/02/2010:
Empire carpet is a catch 22! Avoid them at all cost I had similar situation with these clowns but cancelled everything because they keep changing the work order! Beware ALL don't used them. They are crooks!
imperial357 on 11/02/2010:
Share the info- :) Every industry has them. And in the carpet industry, we have a lot of them - those "less than respectable" people selling the product. There are more than a few scams, tricks and deceptions that take place in this industry. There are probably many that we don't even know about. But we will make you aware of the ones we do know. EMPIRE LOL.
Bait and Switch "Empire"
The carpet industry practically invented this one. If you haven't heard of this scam, you probably live on another planet. So for all of you aliens from another world, here's how it works.
All carpet manufacturers have sample books or "deck boards" as they are referred to. These books may have one large carpet sample on the front, and all of the colors in smaller samples inside the book. Some books may have two, three or even four large samples on the front.
When there is more than one sample on the front of the book, each one is usually a different thickness or "quality". Usually these qualities differ only in thickness, and sometimes there is not much difference that you can see or feel. But there is always a difference in cost.
The scam is simple. Let's say a carpet sample book has three samples on the front - A, B and C. C is the thickest one. You are so excited about buying your new carpet that you don't thoroughly read the contract. What happened is, you picked out C. The salesman wrote B on the contract, but charged you for C. He was fully aware of what he was doing.
Or, he will write C on the contract, but send out B, gambling that you probably won't notice the difference
agindc on 11/13/2010:
I had these crooks come to my apartment in DC once. The salesperson proceeded the very same way yours did. He avoided answering the very same questions. This "calling my boss" is a bunch of bull crap! Be aware everybody! They have no ethics!
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Some "Inside" Information About Empire Carpet
Posted by
There are some important things that consumers should understand about Empire Carpets' business plan.
First, almost none of the people you interact with are actual employees of the company. Generally, people understand that the installers are contractors. Did you know that the sales reps are contractors too? Every sales representative is a 1099 employee that is required to set up a personal corporation within 60 days of employment. And, of course, the sales reps earn 100% commission with no other compensation.
That means that the temptation to over-quote and give false promises is outrageous. Once you pay the company and the sale is final, the sales representative gets his/her commission. Because the sales representative is not an actual employee, there is little reprimand for outright lying to a customer in order to close a sale. That is why the reviews on the sales force are across the board. Some people are just unscrupulous while others actually have some sense of integrity.
In the sales rep's mind, he/she doesn't even work for Empire. And legally that is the case. The sales reps are contracted vendors who provide sales services for empire for a commission cut. Empire is legally separating itself from its own sales force. (I can only assume that customer service representatives are actual employees. I have no knowledge to the contrary.)
As for the 60% off sale: OF COURSE, the sale is only on the cheapest, poorest quality carpets they have. This is common. Does anyone really think you'll get top-of-the-line designer carpet for 60% off? The company baits you with the glossy sale offer and then the sales representative comes in to try to up-sale you on something that you really want. (I guarantee you that you don't want the sale carpet.) But understand that this is NOT just an Empire Carpet thing. All companies do this.
Now, I don't know if the 60% off is supposed to include installation as well. I highly doubt it. Chances are that it is just the materials on discount, and that may be why people are still shocked at how high the price is.
Next, Empire Carpet knows that they have high prices. They tell you that you are getting a good deal because they hope you'll believe it. But this is also a common sales practice. Consumers should always comparison shop. Also, there is nothing wrong with negotiating with a company for the best price. When you are making high-priced purchases, ALWAYS negotiate.
I'm researching this company because my husband was recently hired as a sales representative and has just started training.
The person that hired him told him that the biggest problem they have is sales reps lying to the customers and giving false expectations. Expectations that the company will not honor.
Maybe if their sales force were actual company employees, they wouldn't have that problem. But the amount of complaints they get from fraudulent sales reps must pale in comparison to the amount of money they make from not having to pay payroll tax, health benefits, life insurance, retirement, and anything else for their employees.
All companies get complaints, but I am shocked to see the volume of complaints against this company. Customers consistently complain about quality of carpet, being over-quoted on price, feeling misled by advertising, and extremely poor customer service. I'm going to bring all of this up to my husband this evening, because he does not want to work for a company that is fraudulent in any way.
It seems like the company has left many of you with no other recourse than to actually sue them for breech of contract. That would cost more than replacing your carpets, and the headache of using the court system isn't worth it. Corporations know this.
One more thing: Empire Carpets is privately held. This is unlike companies like Lowe's and Home Depot. In publicly traded companies, bad press pisses off the stock holders and stock prices drop. Private companies often have more tolerance for bad publicity.
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timoconnor428 on 04/13/2009:
inthespirit on 04/20/2009:
Thank you for taking the time to write such an informative report on Empire Carpeting. Wish others were as generous.
Billybob21 on 09/23/2009:
After reading this... it all comes quite clearly now as to why our own meeting with Empire was an experience. Thank goodness for the internet helping spread the word.
Lifemates on 10/11/2010:
this seems to be a response to this review http://www.my3cents.com/showReview.cgi?id=56725
and it does slightly help change my opinion.
beenthere on 05/15/2013:
as a sub for empiretoday I will have to agree, I worked in west palm, Florida office as a sales rep for several months,I worked 3 counties because we could not keep enough sales people, even when I made 4 thousand dollars in a month the bottom line was, over 1 thousand dollars in gas,toll,phone,(I had to get a smart phone, sure miss my old flip,and the wear and tear on my vehicle,and of course faxing charges, then the hours they expect you to work, I wasn,t getting home until after 9
billi on 05/21/2013:
I was looking to put carpet in my appt. After reading these review about Empire Carpet idont think I will give them my $$
Right on 08/09/2013:
Sales rep for 9 months at Empire. Top rep in my area. The sales are all bogus and the compensation hardly covers expenses. My appointments were up to 2 hours one way and no guarantee of a sale. I sold all my jobs for the lowest possible allowed and was still high. I made 18k in 9 months and I was the top rep! Lucky I had my own commercial carpet jobs or I would have been broke. Company is all about the numbers and sales reps are just expendable for them. Rep in a city where your appointments are 15 to 20 min apart or you will not make ends meet. Oh and they kept promising me a salary position as commercial division manager and never followed through.
Joe Welsch on 09/27/2013:
I have worked at empire many years and always made very good income. Every one has been nice to me. When I call my customers back most tell me they were very happy.
It's a very easy job when you learn how to do it.
Not everyone is cut out for sales.
I make it easy for people to get there floors done, call in the morning , I come in the afternoon and you get you floors the next day.
Ana Canjura on 01/13/2014:
Hello, my name is Ana. I recently signed up for a training class that starts next week. I am unsure of whether or not to attend. It is in the Houston office. Has anyone worked at the office?
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Working for Empire
Posted by
face it
MORAINE, OHIO -- As a flooring contractor during the economic recession, when work was hard to find, I signed up as an installer for Empire Today (Carpet workshop LLC) At the date of hire I was asked to sign multiple forms repeatedly and was never given explanation as to what they relate too. Only after quitting and posting a complaint on My3cents did I receive a "packet" in the mail outlining policies set forth by Empire Today/Carpet Workshop LLC.
As a sub contractor you are asked to pay into what is called a retainer, 10% of your gross check to cover supposed replacement liabilities. A legitimate company keeps records of who did what and those records are cross referenced in the event there is ever an issue, as well as a disclosure law that states the original contractor has 30 days to return to the project sight to correct any issues. I moved since I worked for Empire and they refuse to take calls from me to inform them of my new address to send 1099 tax info as well as where to send retainer monies. No information regarding any issues was ever disclosed to me, and seeing as I got hung up on twice when calling to inform them of my address change, I can only guess there was never any intention to return my money to me. Not only was signing up with Empire the worst business decision I had ever made, being sent to peoples homes with the lowest quality material I had ever seen in my 24 + years in the flooring industry and being told to tell paying customers "that is just the nature of the product" I was also dispatched to a job that had serious asbestos issues and I was told to remove the asbestos (which I refused to do) because as a sub contractor the liability falls directly on me, not Empire. And I would have put the homeowners as well as my self in a dangerous health risk and could have faced huge fines and penalties. Had I been an hourly employee that would have put liability on Empire, and they know these things. They have been corrupting the market place for years and they know how to get around accepting any liabilities.
Any one considering to work for, or hire, Empire Today should think twice. If you take pride in your work and wish to do the best job possible Empire is not the place to be. As a customer you may not know that you are allowing the lowest pay scale installers in your home (usually non English speaking) which as a direct result, you the customer, wind up with poor quality materials as well as the possibility of very poor installation.
Hiring a lawyer to collect the retainer is cost prohibitive, and Empire knows this. The forms you must sign simply state the conditions regarding Empire's receiving your money as a retainer, and make no mention of any sort of legal premise in regards to returning said monies to the contractor. In other words they protect themselves but do not provide any sort of legitimate recourse for the contractor to regain monies that rightfully are owed.
If someone is desperate enough to work for such a place (as I was at one point in time) then every cent counts, BEWARE of Empire Today as their organization is set up to take advantage of everyone they do business with, either customer or contractor.
Company Response 1/31/2013:
Jim, we regret that you were not satisfied with your experience while working as an independent contractor, as we always strive to provide a positive work environment. We would be glad to discuss the concerns you have expressed, and we will be contacting you soon. Please also feel free to contact Steven Jedras in our Human Resources Department at 888-588-2315 ext. 4345
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face it on 02/17/2013:
Following up: I was never contacted by anyone at Empire (as the response above states I would be) but I did receive a 1099 in the mail about a week after posting this. It was for the wrong amount, The last pay stub I got from Empire and the numbers on the 1099 do not match. Anyone surprised by this? Not me !! And as far a returning my retainer monies to me, as I said above I have not had anyone from Empire contact me, and they have the audacity to suggest I spend time to try to contact them? I tried 2 separate time on 2 separate days to contact them, being put on hold and eventually just disconnected, I find it not worth my time to once again meet their terms and go through the aggravation of dealing with their call center to get what they owe me. It should be that they know they owe something (either to me or anyone else) and they make a substantial effort to do the right thing. But then again if they wear that reputable and honest there would not be THOUSANDS of complaints against them.
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Seemed like a good idea .... I was wrong
Posted on
I'll start by saying that even though I read all the reviews, I just had a morbid sense of humor and wanted to see first hand just how sketchy Empire was.
I filled out the online in-home estimate request and then noticed somewhere that it stated if you weren't spending at least $750.00 that they would not come out so I emailed a cancellation request (only needed 20 sq. yards of carpet). Not only did they send me the cancellation confirmation, but right behind it, they rescheduled my appointment again. When I called, I had to jump through hoops to actually speak to a human being, explained my situation, and the woman stated that no job was too small and that they would be here today, Monday, January 31.
My sales guy called and was super nice, he was close to my home so he was coming an hour early if that was OK. Sure, no problem. Now I have already spoken with Lowes, Home Depot and Molyneaux over the weekend and each provided a rough quote of around $540.00 - $560.00. So I figured hey, Empire says they save you money, why not let them come in for an estimate.
Well, my salesman arrived happy as a child on Christmas morning. I quickly escorted him to the small bedroom and hallway that I wanted to have carpeted and explained what I have explained above. Suddenly, this kind old man became so enraged that he literally turned 4 shades of red and began shaking. He told me that unlike these stores, he only installs quality product. I told him that I was looking at Stainmaster carpet with upgraded pad and I thought that was quality. He then threw his metal briefcase on the floor and fumbled his phone out of his pocket to call "his boss" and told me that I had to tell them I canceled my appointment. When he put me on the phone, I told them that no, I didn't cancel, I was told that 20 sq yards of carpet would be no less than $900.00 and that I was going with another quote, he ripped the phone away from me, hung it up, called me an a$$hole and dropped his phone. At this point, I felt I was under attack. I kicked his phone towards the door, grabbed it, threw it out into the snow and politely told the old man that he was about to meet Jesus unless he left this moment.
I won't make this mistake again, and I hope this helps you avoid it as well. It was good for a Monday laugh, but that's about it.
Thanks all :)
Company Response 02/02/2011:
I've read your recent post and I'd like to follow back with you regarding some of the things you've described. I'm sorry you had difficulties cancelling your appointment. It's our normal process to contact a customer that cancels to see if there is anything we could have done differently or to see if you've reconsidered cancelling your appointment. However, we don't automatically reschedule since we need to be sure of the customer's availability.
Please accept my apologies. The situation you described with the sales representative is not in line with our standard of service. If you're willing, I'd like the opportunity to send another sales representative to your home to better show you our dedication to world-class service. If you're interested, could you email your contact information to firstname.lastname@example.com or contact me via phone at 888-588-2315 x4195 and we will follow back with you to address your concerns.
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drugdoc121 on 01/31/2011:
Wow, not sure I would have thought that experience funny at all
Anonymous on 01/31/2011:
The only mistake I see was only throwing the phone out into the snow. Very entertaining.
Anonymous on 01/31/2011:
I'm going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt on this one because I can see this happening. In fact I saw something very similar happen between my Aunt Lillian and an aluminum siding salesman although I must point out that it was before cell phones but if you substitute fedora for mobile phone the stories are darn tootin close.
Anonymous on 01/31/2011:
Opps sorry...let me rephrase my last comment.
Wow OP! If I had been treated in such a manner, I would have first called 911, and I would also contact an attorney and consider filing suit against Empire...their representative obviously threatened you and you could have been seriously harmed not just physically, but the language that was used had to have also caused you mental anguish. Best of luck..do let us know if you decide to do anything about this and thank you very much for the warning, I shall never contact Empire when I'm bored and looking for a good laugh.
MDSasquatch on 01/31/2011:
My favorite quote after a salesman has finished their spiel. "I can't wait to give this quote to the landlord"
Usually followed by a "you are not the homeowner?"
Then followed by a quick exit.
dan gordon on 01/31/2011:
since you read the prior reviews then you know that Empire will say this was not a salesperson but an independent contractor working for them. For fun I would have asked about the 'free install' or since that wasn't enough carpet could you just pay for one room and get two more free like the tv ad says? It wouldn't have hurt to try..
Anonymous on 01/31/2011:
Exactly JC. Like my aunt Lillian was fond of saying, "Look before you leap a gift horse drinking water with its mouth". Now I didn't much 'get it' back then but then again I was just a kid and I still had plenty of growing up to do.
PepperElf on 01/31/2011:
Wait... you ordered the carpet just to see how they were... and you canceled... but you still agreed to have them look at your home?
Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it sounds like you were leading them on, with the intent of laughing at them over it.
In light of that, I cannot agree with you over the company's quality. Not if you were purposefully screwing with them just to play mind games.
spiderman2 on 01/31/2011:
That's how I read it Pepper. I have better things to do with my time that screw around with people for giggles and put myself in a sitaution that could potentially be dangerous, but that is just me (and probably you too!)
madconsumer on 01/31/2011:
great review.
very helpful.
Venice09 on 02/01/2011:
I'm not sure this was done just for fun. I got the impression the OP might have purchased the carpet from Empire if the quote was in the range of the other quotes, but it wasn't even close.
I fail to see any humor in this entire scenario. Kicking the phone and throwing it outside was a risky thing to do. Who knows what the salesman was capable of doing in return? Not something I would want to find out. I would have just politely asked him to leave and locked the door behind him.
VWhite on 08/30/2012:
I am so glad that I decided to look up "Empire complaints" because every time I see the commercial I think "what a great deal! We should call them." My husband on the other hand has always told me they will rip you off. He was right. Thanks for all the postings we will NOT becalling them today or any other day.
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Late, Bullying, Salesman
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DELAWARE COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA -- So, I made an appointment for a FREE Estimate with Empire Carpet. The appointment was scheduled for between 11am and 1pm, although the Salesperson did not show until closer to 2pm. I called the office several times to see where the salesperson was and when to expect them since I had taken the morning off from work, and was sitting in an empty apartment since I do not live there yet. The company told me that the sales person was lost, not familiar with the area, and would be there shortly. When the Salesperson arrived- He barely got two feet in the door before he started his spiel, stating that Empire does a TON of work in that area and they have exemplary customer service. We questioned how he could do a ton of work in the area, yet be lost for over an hour and the sales person had not good answer. At some point in his drawn out speech on Empire's Award winning Customer Service, he pulled out his large black box/brief case and I thought that we were finally going to look at some carpet, but no- He proceeded to show us all of the awards Empire has won and continued to tell us how fantastic and trustworthy the company is.
Finally, we got on the topic of carpet- He asked if we were renting the property and if the decision maker was present. We explained that I was renting the unit and my dad is present because he is the contractor overseeing all of the renovations (therefor the decision maker). The Salesperson then began arguing with us, saying that the website asks that the decision maker be present for the appointment. I explained that I read and understood that portion of the website and ultimately my dad and I would be making the decision, but right now we are gathering estimates.
The salesperson then preceded to tell me that Empire pays him 350 dollars to come to make these visits and if we do not give a definitive YES or NO answer THAT DAY- Empire will not send someone back out to the home. We asked if he could write up the estimate and then we can just call and make an appointment with the installer, but the Salesperson stated that that is not how Empire operates and it can not be done. The Salesperson went on to explain how much of a waste of time it is for him to come out when we are not going to give him a clear YES or No that day. My dad finally interjected and told the Salesperson that he was wasting our time and asked him to leave. The salesperson huffed and puffed and made some rude comments before finally exiting the home.
I immediately called Empire and informed them of our interaction. I asked them flat out- if requiring a definitive YES or NO before giving the estimate is the company's usual practice and the representative sad "No, Absolutely not." The representative asked that he put me on hold and when he returned to the line (5 minutes later) he stated that he sent my complaint to a manager and to expect a call from them soon. Still no word from them and honestly- I'm not expecting a call from the manager.
Company Response 11/08/2010:
Thank you for bringing your sales experience to our attention. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you. We are dedicated to service and satisfaction; please contact us at 800-588-2300 to assist you.
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getoverit on 11/06/2010:
It sounds like you are trying to take a very sensible decision-making approach to a major purchase and these people are making it as difficult as they can.
It also sounds like you won't be conducting any further business with them and, in your shoes, I wouldn't either.
There's plenty of places to buy carpet.
tnchuck100 on 11/06/2010:
Any "got to have your answer right now!" company should be immediately eliminated from your prospective supplier list.
Anytime I am requesting estimate I make it clear to the company that there will be no immediate decision - they are only supplying an ESTIMATE. I do not wish to waste their time or, more importantly, my time.
Anonymous on 11/06/2010:
I'm not a fan of these sales people that have to come to your house. If they can, they WILL try to bully you and intimidate you in your own home, since they know its your comfort zone. The moment I would have felt him being pushy, I would have asked him to leave. If he would have been making rude remarks, I would have helped him get to the door a little quicker, and made a few remarks of my own.
jktshff1 on 11/06/2010:
Not a very good salesman. Who cares how much he is paid? I would not have seen him at all, but told him to make another appointment, and be on time because you know where it is now. If I did see him, I'd a kicked him out when he started arguing with me.
unhappy999 on 11/06/2010:
You did the right thing. Go to your local carpet store where they do not try to rush you into a decision. Its your money and your home, you want to make an informed decision and be happy with your purchase.
getoverit on 11/06/2010:
When a carpet guy comes to the house he can do all the measurements, etc. Unless the rooms are perfect rectangles, this can be a big advantage.
Last time we bought carpet, it was from a local store who had a rep that came to the house and measured up, etc. He had samples and we also looked at sample in the store. Maybe it cost a few more bucks than somewhere else but these were good people to do business with.
Nohandle on 11/06/2010:
I've found it's easy enough to measure for yourself, but where are you planning on putting the seams? What about a dye lot difference? I always deal with my local folks if at possible with any product. With floorcovering, select what you like in the showroom but those samples might not look the same in your home. I don't deal with pushy salespeople period. I quit allowing those folks in my home a long time ago.
dan gordon on 11/06/2010:
Empire does not employ sales people. They employ 'independent contractors' who are trained in a one stop close. If you don't make a decision they don't
make any money. They are high pressure, greatly inflated price. If you like the worst type of used car sales techniques then you will love Empire. Someone has to pay for all that advertising
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Empire Carpet is Slimey
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INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA -- I have a 260sq Ft room with an adjacent flight of stairs that I needed to get re-carpeted and always feel vulnerable when talking to salespeople, especially, if the subject is something that I don't have too much knowledge in. I had gotten my first quote before meeting the "Empire man" and it was roughly about $600. I wanted a second opinion and was willing to splurge a couple hundred more if the price was in the range. I set up the appointment and for doing so online I received a $200 off coupon. The "salesman" did arrive on time and was quite cheery. I took him up to measure the room and stairs; he soon realized that I didn't know too much of what to expect. It gets funny from here, because after he measured, to my shock, he said that it was 400sq Ft(completely off, because I had been worrying about the pricing and had measured/remeasured; all that on top of the first quote whose measurements matched up to mine).
The first person that gave me the estimate gave me the option of different carpet textures and pricing per yard. The empire guy didn't give me any of the pricing per yard and showed me which pad was going to be used(wouldn't let me switch, because he said the yellow stain-resistant pad is the only thing that Empire is allowed to use, meanwhile, I see many other pad samples in his bag that he won't show). He gets to writing and he has two initial quotes. One for $1400 and the other for $1600. OK...so I tell him that I have another quote and showed it to him and he scoffed at the price and tells me that the people that gave me the quote likely didn't know what they were doing, I would get poor service, and I couldn't trust them. He goes back to his writing and now get's it down to $1200(still a shocker) and says he might be able to get it lower if I could agree the same day, but I was confident that he wasn't going to beat the first estimate so I told him that I wanted to wait and make a decision. He says that the offer would then be at $1200, I said OK, helped him pick up his samples and helped him out to his truck.
I thought the sales-con was over, but this guy was SLIMEY!! We were at the table with the first quote, the one he scoffed at, and after he leaves **ta da**it's gone!! I know he took it with him and I couldn't help but to chuckle for a good hour, because I didn't think that a salesman would stoop so low. I luckily did have the phone number of the first estimator, but really...I can't say that I would ever consider empire after the dirty trick. All in all...empire makes sales and they have their sales guy running numbers instead of looking at the basic cost of the project.
Company Response 09/16/2010:
Thank you for bringing your sales experience to our attention. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you. We are dedicated to service and satisfaction; please contact us at 800-588-2300 so we can assist you.
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Weedwhacked on 09/08/2010:
Sounds like you made the right decision.
ok4now on 10/02/2010:
As soon as I hear Empire Carpet the warning bells go off. How they are still in business is a total mystery. They employ high commissioned sales people that are deceitful & will lie just to get a sale. The product that they sell is way over-priced and not good quality. They want to make a killing on the first sale and don't rely on repeat business which is why they advertise so heavily. Good for you for seeing through them. I would go with the first estimate. They seemed honest and reputable.
lucky escape on 04/23/2013:
Exactly the same experience as above, saved from disaster by brainy daughter. I thought I was the only idiot to almost be taken
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Robbed Me Blind...Literally
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30102, GEORGIA -- I had an in home visit from one of their sales people and it was great. She was helpful and the price was really good. I scheduled the installation and was very excited about getting fresh new carpet for my house. The installers came on time. The crew manager was great, he answered all of my questions and was generally very friendly. He had 2 Hispanic guys working with him. They spoke no English. They finished in 3.5 hours and I was so excited. The carpet looked great. I was thoroughly satisfied. I really thought I would get to go out onto the internet and write a good review of the company. That is, until I started unpacking my stuff that I boxed up to get out of the way.
I unpacked a box and thought that there was some CD's and a DVD missing, but I wasn't sure. That prompted me to check my jewelry box that was in a box under stuff in the bathroom. When I did I was shocked to find 6 rings missing from my jewelry box. One of which was my grandmother's wedding rings (she passed away last Feb and that's all I have left of her). Those rings were on a gold chain. The chain was snapped and the rings gone. I was so upset, I was literally devastated. I immediately called the crew manager that was at my house and told him that I had belongings missing. He was able to stop his crew. One of the men was working with him for the very first day ever. This guy handed over 2 of my rings, but nothing else.
By that time I had contacted the local police and they were at my house. Long story short, what ended up happening was the crew manager and his wife came all the way back here from the warehouse in rush hour traffic to give a statement with me to the police. It was really great of him to do that and he didn't have to do anything.
If that wasn't bad enough, Empire was notified also and they told me that someone would call me in 24hrs. They should have made that a priority. The lady called me the next day got information and said she would call back. She took 4 hours to do so. When she called back (after 2 msgs from me)she gave me the B. S. line of "we are going to cooperate with the police". When I asked what the company was going to do for me, she repeated that line FREAKING PARROT! She wouldn't explain anything.
I spoke with the Installation Manager here in Atlanta and he basically told me that b/c legal is involved they can't discuss it with me. They aren't doing anything to resolve the fact that I paid $1800 to be robbed!
This could happen to anyone with any company. My point is that EMPIRE has no customer service to speak of. I wish I had gone with someone else even if I had to pay more money. Beware of empire.
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dan gordon on 03/24/2009:
I'm glad you were able to recover something and the guy admitted to the theft. Any coroporate entity dealing with police and legal issues won't comment much due to legalities. Your way ahead of most people in similar situations. Empire generally hires employees as installers and as such should be bonded and licensced. The sales people aren't employees. Do a google search for Empire today installers for job openings and you can see a list of their requirements. There clearly is liablility on their part.
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Robomow RL2000
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Features for Robomow RL2000
Base Station
Robomow is charged at the Base Station and stays there between operations. Robomow independently departs from the Base Station, cuts the lawn and returns for charging until the next operation.
Child Lock
This is a safety feature to help prevent children or others not familiar with the safe operation of Robomow from operating it freely.
Edge Cutting
Robomow is the only robotic mower with blades that cut outside the wheels and a unique Edge mode, which enables it to follow the perimeter wire for complete coverage of the lawn edges.
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Lock your Robomow with a PIN code, to prevent others from operating it.
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With the strongest steel blade and the widest cutting surface, Robomow can easily manage the first cut of the season.
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Robomow blade stops rotating immedialtey if it is lifted from the ground or tilted to a vertical position. When the bumper senses an obstacle, blades stop and Robomow changes its driving direction. To prevent children from operating Robomow, activate the Child Lock.
Accessories for Robomow RL2000
Pack of 50 pegs
Pack containing 50 pegs to be used for larger lawns and additional zones. (For all Robomow models)
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Peg this Perimeter Wire around your lawn and let Robomow do the rest. For larger lawns and additional zones. (For all Robomow models)
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Bag of 10 plot connectors, to be used for connecting the completed perimeter wire set up to the Base Station or Perimeter Switch.
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Perimeter Switch with Stake
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Super Sidebar Liquor and Beverage Dispensing System - White Base Model:6500WH
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Super Sidebar Liquor and Beverage Dispensing System - White Base
The Super Sidebar Liquor and Beverage Dispensing System (6500W) is the easiest and most efficient way to keep your guests entertained while enjoying yourself at the same time. No longer will you have to play bartender at your parties, but instead the compact, electronic dispensing system will automatically transport beverages from their original containers to your glass through the goose neck spout. You can safely store your supply bottles under counter tops or in any location up to 10 feet away from the dispensing spout.
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1165: Amazon
Title text: Amazon.com took a surprise early lead with 'Time required to transport a package from Iquitos, Peru to Manaus, Brazil' but then lost it at 'Minutes to skeletonize a cow'.
[edit] Explanation
The Amazon River in South America is the second longest river in the world and by far the largest by waterflow. Amazon.com is a website that specializes in commerce and selling goods over the internet. The "round 14" suggest they are being compared in different criteria in a sort of competition. With such different systems, we can assume that most of those comparisons were similarly funny. The title text mentions two other criteria of comparison.
The measure of flow for the Amazon river (cubic meters per second) indicates the volume of water that passes a given point in the river at any second. To illustrate how much 220,000 cubic meters is, the comic shows a car parked next to 220,000 cubic meters of water. 220,000 cubic meters equals a cube with an edge length of 60.4 meters. By comparison the 0.9 cubic meters of goods that are shipped by Amazon.com seems very small (note that 0.9 cubic meters of goods per second is still a lot). To illustrate this size, the comic shows an Amazonian fish (or possibly an Amazon river dolphin) investigating the packages.
Iquitos and Manaus are cities near the source and middle point respectively of the river; the title text suggests that it is faster to have a package shipped between the two than let it drift downstream. 'Minutes to skeletonize a cow' refers to piranha, an Amazonian predatory fish with a popular reputation of being capable of the mentioned act when hunting in groups, which has little basis in reality, though. Of course, it would take slightly longer for Amazon.com to skeletonize a cow because the death ray takes time to heat up.
[edit] Transcript
- Round 14
- Estimated outflow volume
- in cubic meters per second
- [A cube of water representing the outflow of the Amazon.]
- Amazon 220,000
- [A pile of boxes representing the outflow of Amazon.com.]
- Amazon.com 0.9
- Advantage: Amazon
I believe it is not about Amazon Forest, but about Amazon River. 220.127.116.11 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)
- That'd be a ridiculous amount of rain! 220.127.116.11 06:42, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
- Skeletonize a cow
Isn't there an urban myth that pirahnas can skeletonize a cow in under 2 minutes? 220.127.116.11 10:32, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- According to [1], it's not myth - you only need few nets and few hundreds of piranhas. It was not mentioned how far they needed to go to get that number of piranhas, but I would suppose setting up that kind of practical joke can't take more that few days. -- Hkmaly (talk) 11:55, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Does Amazon sell beef by any chance? I mean: while amazon.com can probably ship a package from Iquitos to Manaus, the Amazon can only nearly, because Manaus is situated a few kilometers upstream of a river branch where the package from Iquitos would float by. Makes me think whether there is a similiar comparison with skeltonized cows. Hence beef. 188.8.131.52 15:25, 25 January 2013 (UTC) madd
- Reason for comparison
I think the main reason for this comparison is the dispute over the .amazon TLD between Amazon.com on one side and Brazil and Peru on the other. --220.127.116.11 11:38, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
I assume you mean this article (or alike): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242994/Brazil-Peru-web-giant-Amazon-battle-amazon-domain-name.html 220.127.116.11 09:40, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
- Indeed, they are comparing who is "more worth" the domain name and this comic shows how to compare them --220.127.116.11 19:12, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Just want to say that I always thought it was a mistake to add to the (generally) three-character traditional non-geographic TLDs that they used to have. This despite buying myself a .info when that first came out, mostly as a novelty similar to the acre of Moon. (But .aero? .museum? Really?) Still, can't begrudge them the drift to non-Western characters (just wish it'd been direct non-Western equivalents to .com, .org, .mil, .gov, etc... Anyway, what's wrong with just letting each national TLD logically and self-consistently expand upon their own existing standards (.co.uk, .com.au, etc) in a manner the locals would understand, and let significant metanational organisations (UN) do the same for their own subset of responsibilities in their own pseudo-national TLD. (You see, I over-think these things.) 22.214.171.124 16:20, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
- Is anyone else thinking what I am?
Its been a while since Munroe has given something seriously good/thoughtful.... I am getting the inner feeling that he is planning something big. Like BIG . Anyone here concurs with me? 22.214.171.124 14:18, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
I will second that. It has been a while since he has had any labour intentive jokes. 126.96.36.199 16:57, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- Rounds 1-13
Am I the only one who wants to know what the other 11 criteria might be? 126.96.36.199 19:10, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
No. But we know 3 of them, right? So we just need 10 more. 126.96.36.199 18:52, 28 January 2013 (UTC)We need 11 more. This is criterion 14, and we know 3 of them including this one. 18.104.22.168 22:46, 29 January 2013 (UTC)


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HARRISBURG, Pa.—The winning numbers in Wednesday evening's drawing of the Pennsylvania Lottery's "Daily Number Evening" game were:
(four, zero, six)
Man without use of arms facing gun charge released
TRENTON, N.J. (AP) — A man who can't use his arms because of a spinal condition and faces a gun possession charge was released from jail without having to pay bail on Friday. Full Story
(Tsvangirayi Mukwazhi/AP)
Madonna releases 6 songs after leak
NEW YORK (AP) — In a surprise preview of her new album, Madonna released six songs Saturday on iTunes and various streaming services. Full Story
Commentary: Sony's fear and 'The Interview' decision set terrible precedent
Seth Rogen and James Franco film unlikely to remain in a vault after costing $44 million.


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