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Save your time and money!! Don't bank with Key Bank!
Posted by
FLORENCE, KENTUCKY -- I have been in the banking industry for 6 years now and I have NEVER been involved with a bank this terrible. I should have stayed with Fifth Third! I left Fifth Third because I am an employee and that meant no one could view my accounts but myself--which can be an issue if there is ever a problem with fraud, etc. When I initially opened my account with Key, I did it online. I never got a confirmation number or a phone call or anything. So the following day I went into the Houston branch myself to see if the online service had actually worked and I ended up being in there for 2 hours!!! Their systems kept going down and they couldn't tell me whether or not they had put begun the process of debiting my old Fifth Third account with an automatic transfer. I ended up leaving after they "fixed it" but I felt very uneasy--and I should have gone with my gut instinct. Recently (it's now 2010) I received a call from a woman at the Houston Rd. branch (Amy) and was rudely told that Fifth Third Bank had reported negitively to ChexSystems that I had NSF activity on my old account. I assured her there must be some mistake and that my account with Fifth Third had been closed and I left in good standing. She rudely just repeated again that I had to close my account or I would have to have my check and debit card privileges revoked and they would start charging me fees for my direct deposit. I immediately contacted Fifth Third and was assured that they had not reported anything to ChexSystems and that all my accounts were closed and in good standing. The manager at Fifth Third even gave me a notarized document to take to Key telling them that I was a good client and that I was in good standing. I brought it to Amy at Key immediately. I didn't hear back from her until a few days after. She again rudely stated that I needed to close my account or revoke privileges. I asked if the problem with ChexSystems was still not cleared up and she said she hadn't run the report again, but because my account went overdrawn by $4--even though I immediately deposited plenty of funds (CASH) to cover it--that I had to close it. I tried explaining to her that the deposit would have been made the night before the check that caused the overdraft posted, but by the time I reached the bank they had closed for the night (they have highly non competitive hours and BAD hours for those who work 9-5). She simply said, "sorry." The following day I saw where they hit me with two $33 overdraft fees!!! They had posted both overdraft fees FIRST, then an item for $16 that had been memo posting for OVER A WEEK, and FINALLY my cash deposit showed. Most banks do process the highest debit amount first, but in this case, they should have posted my cash deposit because cash is INSTANT. This account never should have been charged a fee especially because the deposit was made at 9am the morning of the overdraft. Most banks give you until 1pm to get your deposit in. I have NEVER been treated like this in my life. I had been banking with Fifth Third for 10 years and I should have stayed with them. I never had issues like this with them. There are PLENTY of other banks out there and I highly suggest if you are looking for a SAFE and RELIABLE place to keep your money--you AVOID Key Bank!!
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goduke on 01/15/2010:
Fifth third does the exact same thing when posting debits/credits.
Anonymous on 01/15/2010:
So while you were trying to convionce them that you didn't overdraw at 5/3, you overdrew your new account, and blamed it on them because they don't stay open long enough for you to cover the items you wrote before there were collected funds in the account? I just want to make sure I get this straight.
Anonymous on 01/15/2010:
You might want to pull your own chexsystems report. I think this event would entitle you to a free report. Good luck.
Anonymous on 01/15/2010:
Yep Ken, seems that way. The OP needs a lesson in using a check register. Youre the one who overdrew your account, not the bank. So the manager of the bank was going to revoke your privileges, and you bring a document from a friend from the bank you used to work at showing you were in good standing, and then overdraw on your new account anyway? Wow. And youre blaming the reason you got the overdraft fees is because they closed early? lol what a ridiculous complaint. Its like someone complaining to the judge that its not fair I got a speeding ticket. Yeah I was speeding, but if the officer wasn't watching my speed to begin with, I wouldn't have gotten the ticket. Does it make it right? absolutely not! people in this country need to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND STOP TRYING TO BLAME OTHERS FOR THEIR OWN NEGLECT!
Anonymous on 01/15/2010:
"I left Fifth Third because I am an employee and that meant no one could view my accounts but myself--"
Really? That's kind of dumb. Most banks, if you're employed by them, you *couldn't* access your own account (to view or anything)... only other employees. Anyway.
"should have posted my cash deposit because cash is INSTANT."
Yes, it is instant. But, working at a bank you should know it also depends on when you make the deposit. You say you made it at 9am, that day. You mean the day that you discovered that your account was in the negatives? Or the day before things were going to post that would put you in the negatives?
Ytropious on 01/15/2010:
Before I moved to a Key Bank-less area and switched to fifth third I loved my local Key branch. They were all so nice there and recognized me, and the bank manager knew my family by name. I'd go back now that I'm back in a Key Bank area but I've got no complaints with fifth third either.
Anonymous on 01/15/2010:
BKK, I believe the OP is correct. In my experience, an employee is allowed to view their accounts, but never transact on them. Because the employee has the same rights to privacy as other customers, generally, other employees cannot view their accounts. Commonly, when an employee depsoits with a teller, the receipt won't even print the balance like it does for everyone else. Even with all that, it's not a great idea to bank where you work.
Anonymous on 01/15/2010:
Ken, I wasn't saying she was wrong about that. I was merely saying it was a dumb thing.
And, I do know, for a fact, some banks do not allow employees to look at their own bank accounts (via the tools tellers used to look up information about accounts and transactions), let alone do transactions for themselves. It all depends on the bank.
Anonymous on 01/15/2010:
Entirely possible BKK, there are a bazillion different banking systems out there, I'm sure they don't all work the same way.
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Overdraft is a KEY in Key Bank profit
Posted by
PORTLAND, OREGON -- I opened Checking Account and Credit Card with Key bank years ago, and one day in 2006, I withdraw $200 cash at ATM overseas. Transaction went trough without any warning, however, I had to pay somewhat $30 fee, and Key bank covers overdraft at that time. I did not like to receive few dollars extra and pay somewhat $30. No one would. I asked Key bank options I have in order to void such âconvenience chargesâ in the future. I was surprised! Key bank âcan notâ decline overdraft transactions: âwe do not do that, we always cover it and charge overdraft penalty for itâ. WOW! What a way to make a profit on simple mistakes of your client! I did not want to stay near such trap set by my bank and decided to close account immediately.
At that time I had the same set of accounts with US Bank, where US bank Checking Account linked to US bank Credit Card, and fee is only $10 per total $200 of multiple overdrafts!
But, I did not close Key Bank Checking or Credit Card at that time. Why? Because I got assurance from Key Bank representative that Key Bank can do the same as US Bank! OK, sounds like a plan, I finally will have some use for Key bank credit card (never had any debt on it), plus, Key bank voided that $30 fee, nice!
Again, I outline: According to Key Bank, it will never happen again, since Key bank Credit card is linked to its checking account same way as US bank did, and if any overdraw transaction occurs, it will be funded from credit card up to its limit.
Here is what happened in June.
Jun 2007 I purchased 6 items on Ebay and used Paypal to pay, linked to Key bank checking.
Right after that I got over $200 overdraft penalty charges, which includes multiple overdraft charges per single transaction. Why? Because Key bank checking never got linked to Key bank Credit Card, as promised, whoever promised that âwas wrongâ and the only way to set Overdraft Protections via dedicated line of credit linked to checking!
I called all numbers, than I actually visited a branch manager, asking why I pay for Key Bank representative mistakes out of my pocket. Everyone was rude. Every conversation was a great insult for me.
On my simple question about what actually these $30+ fees per each overdraft transaction for, I got âfor funding your transaction while you have insufficient fundsâ. But it is a lie again: Key bank did not cover these transactions! Instead, Key bank refuse funding, you try again, and they charge multiple overdraft fees increasing per each attempt to complete the transaction!
One more part: Key bank online system set perfectly to rip people off on overdraft fees. Oh yes, I will explain!!!
Say, online access shows negative -$185 balance, meaning, that without any new transactions since last overdraft took place, customer deposit of $185+ should bring checking balance back to positive. I had no new transactions and deposited $300 immediately, so, I should be fine. No, dead wrong! Because -$185 shown online, was only part of the story, caused exclusively by overdraft fees! Why? Because Key bank charges fees per every overdraft attempt, but none of causing overdraft transactions were actually covered by Key bank, and, none of them appears on the statement in any way, neither as complete, or incomplete, or rejected, or pending etc. They won't show you what went wrong and what is pending! Remember, a year ago, Key bank covered ATM overdraft? Yep, I got cash in my hands! Key bank wonât explain why they charge overdraft fees all the time but did not cover actual transactions at this time.
So, I had five overdraft fees applied to my account which causes -$185 balance alone, clearly visible online. And I had five (!) not covered by Key bank transactions without any reflection on the same statement!
Sure I see -$185, and I immediately deposit $334. I do not see anything else online remaining incomplete.
Next, Paypal, in order to complete the same five transactions, few days later attempts to withdraw again, 5 times! I had enough balance for 4 transactions, And, overdraft happen with the same transaction again, which was not covered once, ($32 fee) and not covered again ($36.50 fee, increased!). Paypal acts the same way as everyone would: if transaction did not go trough you usually slide your card again.
On my question why online system did not sow overdraft attempts and reflects only fees applied, manager says âwe mailed you a letter with more details! Do you have any more questions?â
1) A while ago, Key bank representative put a lot of efforts on the table, including misleading information, just in order not to loose another customer. Was it a simple mistake? Maybe, but why I should pay for it now?
2) Key bank online system shows only information they want to show you, outdated, and useless to track the actual situation with your account!
3) Key bank is not an ordinary bank. It is a well oiled rip off system where flexible (not flat!) over $30 overdraft charges apply per each overdraft attempt without completing transaction!
Here is the simple example how you loose $100: you are at the retail sore slide your debit card, say, 2 more times because it did not go trough. It will cost you overdraft fees every time you slide a cad, 3 times equal to over $100 fees, and you still have nothing paid!
4) Unlike with other banks, Key bank overdraft fee you pay for nothing, and it is NOT a flat rate fee, they increase it anytime they want! Because they do not cover actual transactions, their customers most likely will try to slide a debit card multiple times, and overdraft fee will be charged multiple times, increases with every other attempt, before you even know what is going on!
5) Key bank representatives are all extremely rude and uncooperative; they refuse to explain why Key bank charges overdraft fees but only sometimes covers the transactions. I was under impression that they know how it works but it is such a shame that they do not want to talk about it and simply become rude and prefer to hang up the phone!
6) Another shame: friend of mine figured that free checking account which can be open with any balance, subject to $25 fee to close it, if you decide to do so it within 6 month and Key bank wonât tell you that until you actually attempt to close the account!
Resolution Update 12/19/2007:
just got all my money back, $240, 3 month after! Screw you, KEY BANK, you have no tools against FED's!!!
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Gannon_banned on 07/12/2007:
Sounds like you intentionally buy things you don't have the money to cover and then get mad at bank for charging you? Everyone makes a mistake now and again, and usually banks will allow that, but what you are doing is ridiculous! Take some personal responsibility.
heaven17 on 07/12/2007:
I couldn't finish this novel. It doesn't have a happy ending anyway, I'm sure.
Gannon is correct. It boils down to this: don't spend what you ain't got and those nasty overdraft fees will just be a distant memory.
It's really NOT a difficult concept.
The bank hasn't got time to babysit all of its customers and give them a ring when they don't have the funds to pay for that limited edition print of 'Smurfette In Repose'.
DebtorBasher on 07/12/2007:
It's all outlined in the agreement you sign when you open the account...and they DO offer overdraft protection.
Anonymous on 07/12/2007:
I would be embarrassed that I couldn't manage a simple checking account. I surely wouldn't brag about it online.
Anonymous on 07/12/2007:
Most banks that offer overdraft protection, also require a credit check and they charge a fee. However, if you simply don't deduct more than what you have available and keep track of your balance, you wouldn't have to worry about overdrafts to begin with. I agree, mistakes can happen, and I think most banks would be forgiving of the first one. If you were my customer, I would probably cut my relationship with you as you are not responsible with your money and then you want your bank to cover your mistakes over and over again.
DebtorBasher on 07/13/2007:
The reason I mentioned the overdraft protection is because I have accounts with KeyBank (not credit card)...and all you have to do is have your credit card on file with them (it's not applying for a credit card through KB, though, I'm sure they would try to talk you into it, you can use any credit card you already have)or if you have another account with them, like a savings or another checking, you can use that account for overdraft...if you go over, they will take it from the account you agreed to. They may charge a fee...but I'm sure the fee would be a lot less than the over draft and extra fees attached for doing so.
Anonymous on 07/13/2007:
Don't do any banking business today.
Anonymous on 07/13/2007:
DB, you're absolutely right. I was assuming (based on the fact that they constantly go overdrawn)that the poster probably doesn't have any other accounts or credit cards to put on file to use for the overdraft protection.. which then the bank would do a credit check and charge a fee if he/she qualified.
CrazyRedHead on 07/13/2007:
It sounds like you are not balancing your account properly, spending what you don't have, writing cold checks or debits knowingly and relying on online banking solely to balance your checking account. You should get yourself a checking register and keep track of your own money and do not rely on the online system. Use the online system only to verify cleared checks or debits.
Something I found out when I had direct deposit is that any check or debit that comes in is cleared, whether the money is there or not, if it is not then they will still cover it and charge you the overdraft. When I didn't have DD they wouldn't cover it and return it unpaid. If they see that you have DD they will cover it cause they know that they will get there money before you do.
This isn't always the case but it was when I was working a couple of years ago. I have since learned to balance my account properly, it is less stressful.
sk97225 on 07/13/2007:
DebtorBasher (07/13/2007): "The reason I mentioned the overdraft protection is because I have accounts with KeyBank (not credit card)...and all you have to do is have your credit card on file with them.. " /// 1) I have both Key bank Checking and Key bank Credit card, and bank didn't use CC for overdraft protection despite the fact that they said they would. 2) they did not fund any overdraft transaction, all declined, some of them several times, and fees apply every time they decline, most of them only few $$ transactions, so amount was not a reason to decline. Key bank gets multiple overdraft fees per single transaction, if they do not cover them than you slide a card again and again, that's why they prefer to decline regardless of the amount!
Apx12 on 12/19/2007:
It's apparent by reading your novel that Key must be also happy you took your deadbeat elsewhere.
sk97225 on 12/19/2007:
WHATEVER YOU SAY, after 3 month of muilti-level complaint process, got all $240 overdraft charges back, deposited to my account! SCREW YOU, KEY BANK!
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Key Bank Theft
Posted by
EMMETT, IDAHO -- I wrote a check for $10.54, the person I wrote the check to cashed it at Wells Fargo bank. When this check hits my account....are you ready for this? It was processed as $610.00! I'm looking at my balance online, knowing exactly what it should be and notice I'm almost $100.00 overdrawn! I see this check for $610.00 and just about fell off my chair! I immediately contact Key bank using the 800 # and the woman I speak with tells me, "Wow! That's a big mistake!" MISTAKE???? Try THEFT!!! The check in question clearly shows $10.54 so I know it's not the person I wrote the check to....it's the BANK!! She tells me it will take from 1 - 5 BUSINESS days to fix this but they will reverse any overdraft fees.
Well isn't that nice of them? If I overdraw my account, they slam me with a $37.00 fee each time but when THEY overdraw my account, oh someone made a mistake, it will take days to fix and just don't use my cards until then....
What a load of crap! I want to contact the police or someone because I feel like they stole my money! Today I check my account and of course I have 3 overdraft fees! Wonderful! I deposited a payroll check to cover what I was short yesterday which should have made it good but NO, they had to process the overdraft fees BEFORE the freaking check so I'd be overdrawn! I'm so mad I can hardly see straight!! What is my recourse for this? NOTHING! How can this happen? DON"T KNOW, THEY WILL LOOK INTO IT!!Who gets punished for this? NO ONE BECAUSE IT WAS A MISTAKE! I don't believe that for one lousy minute! Someone went home from work with a $600.00 bonus paid for by me and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it!! OK so it could be someone from Wells Fargo where the check was cashed or someone from Key bank, I just know that the whole thing STINKS!!!
I'm stuck unable to access my money which should be well over $800.00 but instead my account is almost $300.00 overdrawn??? I can't believe they get away with this kind of stuff.
I did go into my local branch after speaking with the woman from the 800# and informed them of what was going on. They said they would look into it from their end and would call me later at work. Someone did call less than an hour later, said it would be 1-2 business days before the $600.00 was put back into my account and all overdraft fees would be reversed. And again try to limit my activity on the account so I'm not getting denied somewhere. While I do appreciate the quick call back, it still makes me very upset my account is overdrawn when in fact it's not! Why can't I charge them $37.00 for each overdrawn item? Sure they will be reversed and the money will eventually get back into my account but I don't think they even understand the problem. This is something they have caused but I'm being punished for it! I can't access my checking account because of an "error" on their end and can do nothing about it!! What a lovely way to treat your customers....
03/19/2010...A follow-up call from my local branch this am. My account has been credited all monies owed but no explanation as to how or why this happened. "They aren't telling us anything. Maybe the check right before yours was for $600.00 and it was keyed wrong."
Whatever!! I'm just glad I got all my money back!
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tnchuck100 on 03/18/2010:
Put together as much documentation as you can. Screen prints, emails, documents of financial loss as a result of this. Contact an attorney IMMEDIATELY. A simple letter from him might get them to fix the problem NOW. Delaying this could lead to punitive damages against the bank. DO NOT sit by and take their abuse. FIGHT!
Soaring Consumer on 03/18/2010:
I suggest calling the head offices of Key Bank. Obviously since the check was written for $10.54 they should see that in the system and verify that the error was made, correct it immediately, and cancel the fees. Not one or two days later, they need to do it NOW.
Also I suggest that you file a complaint with the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. This error, regardless of whether it was made by Key Bank or Wells Fargo, is blatantly unacceptable and should never have been allowed to happen.
Anonymous on 03/18/2010:
Unfortunately the rules say you can be charged $37 if you overdraft but you cannot charge them anything if they overdraft your account. I know it sucks, but that's how it is.
CUFlipSide on 03/18/2010:
Actually, the blame lies with the bank where the check was deposited, that's where the mistake was made. It already had a dollar amount attached to it when it got to Key. In a clear cut error like this, it will be fixed the next day. If it isn't corrected tomorrow, call them and tell them you want provisional credit.
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Please Read This If You Check Your Account Online!
Posted by
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON -- I am retired and check my account many times online everyday. I'm lucky that I have the time to do it as most people don't. Sorry for the long post but this should help anyone doing their check balancing online:
Thursday 5 days ago I made a (in person) debit card payment to my doctor's office for the past couple of months of co-pays for my wife and myself. Let's just say it was a little over $100.00. The next day (Friday)it posted as pending and did show it subtracted for available balance. I had enough to cover it and today (Monday)it is gone from the listing and they have added it back as though and my account balance is now $100.00 over my own calculations. Nothing shows pending so if I wasn't careful I could overdraw my account thinking my balance was $100.00 more than it really is. They do this on Fridays just before the weekend so people will think they have more in their account when they don't. They hide under "We are performing maintenance" or some other excuse and purposely take out your already listed highest purchase and then tonight they add it in a second time and you just hope you have not made an easy mistake of forgetting your current balance because theirs is wrong and for a good purpose.
I know my balance is $150.00 but after posting and removing my highest payment show me to have $250.00 after they already received the payment. This happens too often and mostly on Fridays ("We're performing maintenance and all of your transactions may not be shown")This is after I had seen it on Friday morning after paying (debit card) the doctor's bill on Thursday. If you are not careful and overdraft on Friday and don't check your balance for a few days you will then have your overdraft fees automatically pushed into the second tier for more charges. I know, make sure you have enough money to cover but no matter how high or low my account is I shouldn't have to be subjected to this abuse. I am in the process of getting my Pension & Social Security auto deposits into a local bank here.
Tomorrow morning they will add in the $100.00 payment again just like Friday and deduct it from anything that was written or charged over the weekend. Even though it was processed last Thursday and was listed online as pending on Friday morning. UPDATE: Today is Tuesday (12 hours later) and sure enough the $100.00 shows up deducted from my balance when it showed NO Pending Charges last night and my balance was $100.00 more than this morning!
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Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
I have a better idea......don't ever check your account online and use your check register to balance your account against the statement you receive from the financial institution. It's antiquated but it's the only thing that is a non-miss. Checking online, even daily, will not solve anything.
yoke on 02/23/2010:
When you checked online and saw the balance was $100 more than what it should be did that also happen in your check register? Was your checking register also down for maintenance?
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
They drop the hold if the merchant does not submit the charges within a certain number of days and that amount is added back to your balance.When the charge comes in, they take it back out. It is called authorization.
I hear a soundtrack of spy music in the background. Why is it always a conspiracy when people don't understand how something works?
tnchuck100 on 02/23/2010:
What is wrong with you people?
This OP did nothing wrong. He was NOT irresponsible. He was simply pointing out how deceptive on-line balances can be.
Try actually reading the review and pay attention to what is written instead of attacking the poor guy for trying to be helpful.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
tnchuck.....I read the review. I took it a step further and said checking online balances is useless. Read the responses first before lumping them all together, please.
tnchuck100 on 02/23/2010:
Judge, if you had read it you would have noted he was already using your "better idea".
yoke on 02/23/2010:
I did read the post. The OP makes the same mistake that many who bash banks do. They do not keep a check register. They go by what is online. The OP saw that his balance went up $100. If your balance goes up $100 and you did not deposit $100 then I would not spend the $100 until I checked with the bank to see why the $100 was there. If an accurate check register is kept the $100 would not have shown up there.
tnchuck100 on 02/23/2010:
yoke, if you read you did not comprehend. The OP did NOT make a mistake. He DOES use a check register. Read, pay attention, understand.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
I read it twice more and I have to say, I'm just not seeing where the OP says he uses a check register. I see where it says "over my own calculations" and "I know my balance is...." but I'm overlooking where it says anything about a register. Oh well...must be time for a beer.
tnchuck100 on 02/23/2010:
"...as though and my account balance is now $100.00 over my own calculations"
"my own calculations" seems to imply that he does use a register. He just did not use the term "register". At least he does not RELY on the bank's mis-leading information.
yoke on 02/23/2010:
Judge it does not say "in my check register". According to his caculations he had $100 more than the day before and nowhere does he state that he made the $100 deposit.
I understand what the OP is saying, but you can not rely in online banking balances and as a responsible person if you saw you account go up $100 and you did not make a deposit you do not spend the money.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
I guess we're just splitting hairs. Whether or not he uses a check register, it's good advice not to use the online numbers AS a register. Kind of what most of us here have been saying for quite a while.
tnchuck100 on 02/23/2010:
Judge, get me one too.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
Good man...you must go by my motto. It's noon somewhere. For me though, it's almost 730pm. You have to be just waking up.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying the cow. If you don't understand how a chainsaw works, you shouldn't use a chainsaw. If you don't understand how online balances work, yhou shouldn't rely upon online balances. No bank anywhere has ever told customers to rely upon the online banking as a substitute for a check register or as a substitute for keeping track of your bank account.
And the OP may have used the debit card, but he used it as a credit card, which means that the MD ran an authorization. Authorizations drop off. Key Bank is not being deceptive by dropping the authorization, that's how authorizations work. A lot of MD offices batch their payments once a week or once every couple of weeks.
PepperElf on 02/23/2010:
cows & chainsaws...
my imagination is having a LOT of fun now. >:-)
tnchuck100 on 02/23/2010:
Pepper, it is nothing more than a representative example of those who ignore the OP's posted facts and insert their own.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
Oh, please, chuck. That's just not true at all. I am no morem aking up facts than you are. If the OP was keeping his own register, he would have realized that there was a $100 charge out there that was neither in pre-auth or cleared. He just assumed that because it didn't appear in the online portal, he no longer owed that money to anyone.
PepperElf on 02/23/2010:
tnc - don't ruin my mental sick fun.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
I'm tending to agree with tnchuck more and more. Folks, the OP isn't saying he forgot about it or overdrafted. In fact, he said he was fully aware of the 100+ bucks being posted as pending then dropping off and adding back in. He is not saying he spent it again. He is merely saying, I guess, don't use the online numbers as gospel.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
He's characterizing it as deception, which is my beef. It's not deception. It's how authorizations work when you use the debit card as a credit card. They appear as a pending auth. If it's not closed out as a charge in a specific amount of time, it drops off. The person who ran the card, however, can still tag the money.
tnchuck100 on 02/23/2010:
goduke, you are still missing his point. I have a bank who does exactly as the OP describes. Items will turn up missing in the evening only to reappear in the morning. It has nothing to do with authorization drop-offs. It IS deceptive.
yoke on 02/23/2010:
Nothing is deceptive if you keep a check register. Once the money is gone it is gone. It does not matter how many times it appears and then disappears online. The money is not there to spend. To many people don't understand that and then want to blame the bank and say the bank is being dishonest.
Say you have $50 in you account. You make a debit for $20. You now have $30. That night your account says you have $30. The next morning you check again and it says you have $50. Now common sense would tell you that sines you did not deposit $20 that the balance online is wrong and you really only have $30 to spend. Later that day you look again and have $30.00. Fast forward to the next day and you look online and you again have $50. Does that mean that you get to spend $50 or do you still only have $30. Some people will tell you that since the online balance said $50 then they have $50 and then when something bounces it is the banks fault.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I'm missing the point, or that I can't read, or that I'm stupid. It means that I don't agree.
Again, online banking is to facilitate the reconciliation of your own bank records. It is not to be used as an online check register. No bank has ever represented it as such. If you have a record of your spending, as all banks tell you that you are supposed to do, it doesn't matter squat if it disappears for an hour. You still made the charge or wrote the check, and you still owe it to the merchant.
How would a bank know which particular charge to make disappear in order to cause overdrafts? Anything over $100? Then it would be all charges over $100. Every 10th, or 72nd or 83rd charge? You are suggesting that the banks can see what you're going to charge tomorrow before you even charge it. Doesn't make sense.
Venice09 on 02/23/2010:
As I was reading this review, I too found what transpired to be deceptive. I think the OP did a good job explaining his theory, and it actually makes sense. I think he is honestly trying to warn others and is not just complaining. I also think he keeps a check register or some other kind of record of his own.
redmx3racer on 02/23/2010:
It's not deceptive if you know how much money you have to begin with. In fact, I have Key Bank, I don't keep a register (shame on me), and I have never had an issue with items just disappearing and showing up online. Yes-on rare occasions they do have "site maintenance" and you can't see your pending transactions (credits or debits). But they are not doing anything to decieve anyone as far as I can tell in the 8 years I have had them. And that seems to be the OP's complaint/conspiracy theory.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
Thank you, Varekai, for your review. While I do not use my bank's online register to manage my accounts, you have shared an interesting observation I am sure many people who do never take into consideration.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
I'm like Chuck did y'all actually read the review? The OP is not complaining about getting an OD fee and also obviously does keep track of his checking account. Oh well there's no sense in letting the facts of this review get in the way of anybody's rant.
These banks either purposely obfuscate online balances or like I said before Oklahoma banks have super duper computers and turbocharged merchant networks. I for the most part never write a check so all my transactions are deposits or debit card. My online balance is always balls on accurate. If I go the 30 yards downstairs to get a misty morning hop-a-pop on my debit card by the time I make it back up stairs that transaction shows up on my online banking as does all my other debit transactions. I've never seen a transaction go from pending to disappearing online then posted later. It doesn't happen with my bank. Hmmm, Wonder why? Oh yeah it's that technically superior Oklahoma information super highway. Incredible.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
Stew, just because we don't agree doesn't mean we didn't read, or have limited understanding.
I'm not sure why we're so keen on the idea that it's the bank's job to give me a minute by minute completely accurate picture of how much I can spend. I don't think the banks signed up for that.
I have seen for a fact that gas stations where I live are rarely showing up as pending authorizations any more. I don't think it's my bank, as gas charges when I travel out of the area do. I also know that my doctor often doesn't clear charges on my check card (used as a credit card) for a month or so. But I write it down, and it's no big deal.
Fufu487 on 02/23/2010:
Actually the banks SHOULD be able to give you a minute by minute accurate picture of how much you spent. The technology is out there and been used for years, real-time purchasing. You make a purchase, BAM, the funds are out of your account.
yoke on 02/23/2010:
there is the technology out there so you know exactly what you have spent and how much you have left. People have been doing it for years, much before computers and online banking. It is called a CHECK REGISTER.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
goduke, I would never claim anybody on here has limited understanding because most of y'all are pretty sharp. We all talk from our own experiences. My experience with my bank is that the online balance reflects the true balance. I just question why it can work that way in Oklahoma but not the rest of the country. Sure, it's a given Oklahomans have higher IQ and BMI numbers but still that's no reason the rest of the country can't catch up.
MissMae on 02/23/2010:
Varekai, thanks for the VERY informative review of Key Bank. I'm not sure why you got such a beat down for not keeping track of your own records, because when I read your review, it sounds like you are quite meticulous. If you're planning on changing banks and it sounds like you should, look into Banner Bank in your area. Or one of the many Credit Unions.
Fufu487, best answer! I've said it a thousand times...in fact, I can't remember which CU does it, but I've seen advertisements where someone is at a coffee shop and they buy coffee and BAM there is the transaction on their online statement. The whole commercial is about how convenient it is to have instant transaction history online. So yes, it can be done.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
I think some of it may be the merchants. Like I said, gas charges are no longer showing as pre-auths up here. They actually never show as a preauth and hit the account a few days later. When I travel out of yankee land, don't seem to see that.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
If you use the bank check card as a debit card, it does appear immediately. If you use the bank check card as a credit card, it works just like a credit card -- the merchant runs a pre-auth and has to close the transaction for it to actually hit the account. The bank can't close it and have it hit your account without the merchant taking some action.
MissMae on 02/23/2010:
Goduke, the OP used ran a debit transaction. And, I'm afraid you are wrong. When I use my bank card, if I run it as a debit it is immediately deducted from my balance. If I run it as credit, it shows in pending status until its been rectified. When I look at my online statement, I have an Account Balance and an Available Balance. The Available Balance shows anything that's pending. So yes, it can be done.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
I agree with MissMae. I never ever do PIN based transactions because I only get golf ball points when I do signature based. My signature based transactions show up immediately.
Holy smokes only on my3cents would you find claims that pen and paper is superior to tracking numbers than a computer. Ring, ring, ring -- The year 2010 is holding on line one.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
I'm not entire sure the OP ran a debit transaction. Just said he used his debit card. My doc runs my debit card as a credit transaction without asking me. They don't have the ability (or desire) to take it as a debit transaction.
I don't think what I said was wrong. I was speaking only of actually balances, not available balances. The pending authorization would obviously affect the available balance. It cannot, however, affect the ledger balance until the merchant takes action.
yoke on 02/23/2010:
MissMae, yes it can be done, but in the same respect the consumer needs to take responsibility for their accounts. If they know that they had $250 in their account and then spent $100 they know they only have $150 to spend. It should not matter how many times the bank removes and adds the same $100 to the account, the money is no longer there to spend.
MissMae on 02/23/2010:
Then we are arguing a moot point, really. The point is if SOME banks are responsible enough to post both the Available balance, and an overall Account balance, then they all should. Obviously the technology is there, as Fufu pointed out earlier. I use a check register for one thing..checks, because I am smart enough to know that a check will not instantly show up. Everything else I rely on my online statement. And I don't overdraft.
And Yoke..the OP never said he overdrafted. He pointed out a tactic that Key Bank uses that is misleading. He was responsible, because he was keeping meticulous records. Say what you will, it's misleading.
yoke on 02/23/2010:
yes Stew this is 2010 and some still can't figure out how to balance a checkbook. They think a computer will do it for them.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
My bank shows both available and ledger. And I know for a fact the credit auths at some gas stations aren't showing up (even as the $1 ghost charge to check the card). Doesn't appear my bank is doing anything wrong, as other credit charges are appearing. I also am not accusing my bank of deceiving me by refusing to post them.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
Yoke, I'd wager most paper check book registers are loaded with mistakes whether it be arithmetic, transposing numbers or forgetting to write down an auto-pay. Them there computers are really good at ciphering.
So goduke what I'm hearing you say is that when you get gas the gas station doesn't authorize the transaction? Just submits it blindly with the hope of getting paid. Wow, that's pretty trusting. When I get gas at the OnCue the signature based authorization for the exact amount shows up immediately. I don't understand why in 2010 everything doesn't work that way. It's just nuts.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
As GD points out, there are two electronic channels in which these transactions can be processed. One shows an immediate transaction, and one shows an authorization followed by a later posting. In some cases the consumer can control the method, in some cases they cannot. Unless you are completely aware of which channel was used, and can identify what might not yet be posted, it is suicide to rely on online balances. There in nothing deceptive, or misleading, it is all in the mechanics of the system.
The way it should work is that you check online and see a balance of $250, you check your register and see a balance of $220, look a little further and see that you $30 gas purchase hasn't posted yet... and bang! Your account balances and you know what you can spend. Unfortunately, too many people see the $250 and go out and spend it, then whine about the OD charges.
MissMae on 02/23/2010:
Maybe Stew and I have the only banks in the USA that can and do immediately post all pending transactions, down to the exact penny. It is crazy that in 2010 ALL banks can't do this.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
Oh BS. More than one person has posted on here that there online balances are very accurate. That no matter the channel of the transaction they sill immediately appear online. The common denominator of those making these claims is that they use local credit unions or local community banks. As they say the proof is in the pudding. These corporate banks have already shown their ass in the last couple of years. There is nothing these creeps won't due to shove a fee up their customer's hind end. Defending this insanity is well just insane. When will people learn that the Key Wests, BoA, Chase, Wells Fargo and the rest of the clan of thieves are predators and the customer is the prey. Eh, I'll stick with my community bank who seems to have supernatural powers when it comes to my online banking.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
Stew, that appears to be what is happening. I haven't really done a great deal of investigating because it keeps working o.k. It could be that they have a way of checking the validity of the card without running the mini-auth. I can't explain why, but I can absolutely swear that there's no auth showing. I usually just chalk it up to being a yankee thing. I know companies up here aren't nearly as techno reliant as they are in other parts of the US.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
All banks *can* do this, it is the merchant more than anyone else who controls the process. Of the two systems, one is better for the merchant, one is better for the bank. The merchant tries to steer you to the one best for them, but I can tell you with 100% assurance that not every transaction you make is immediately posted. Check the next time you use the debit card in a restaurant and see if it is pre or post tip amount, and it it shows as pending. Everyone with a debit card uses both channels at one time or another.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
And when I say yankee thing I mean it in the most loving and respectful way.
yoke on 02/23/2010:
My online balance is up-to-date, except for outstanding checks and it balances to my check register. There are some out there that can not comprehend that once you spend the money you can not continue to spend it until the bank catches up to it online. There are some that feel that since the bank did not take out the $30 debit right away it gives them the right to spend it again and again and again and then are mad that the bank then gives NSF's.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
I ate a late dinner at Pelicans last night. The authorization showing up on my online banking is for the post tip amount. Must have been a midnight seance at First National Bank last night. Spooky.
MissMae on 02/23/2010:
KenPopcorn, if what you are saying is true, that it is merchant dependent, then explain why I don't see this happening with my account. Not when I travel, not when I shop local, not when I purchase gas, not when I shop online. How is it possible that my bank can and does post everything either immediate or pending (again, I have an Available balance and an Account balance showing on my online statement) and yet you say it is merchant dependent? I don't get it.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
Is this where we get to make cracks about backwoods Oklahoma folks practicing dark magic?
skelly39 on 02/23/2010:
I'm coming in late here, but I agree with Stew and tnchuck. The banks make up their own dang rules on when things appear and disappear. I bought a plane ticket online with my card. The authorization went through and it was pending that night and the next day. Then it magically disappeared the following night. So it was on my account for about 24 hours before it dropped off. Luckily I knew it was still hanging out there, but I'm kind of sick of hearing about this 3-day hold rule that only exists at certain times. Sometimes it's three days, sometimes it's one. What's the criteria? OK, so we're all responsible for our money, but the banks don't make it easy to keep track.
Varekai on 02/23/2010:
Hi! I am the one that posted this complaint! I do keep a check register and check my account online. I was sharing my experience for this reason: If the online account doesn't line up with the check register and I know my register is correct it still bothers me to the point where I question if I made the mistake. I do make them and try to use both forms of a register and an online check. Remember, it is their numbers that determine if I overdraft and if they make a mistake I still have to spend the time to help correct it. My frustration is the charge is listed/showing online Friday morning and will disappear after it is in the pending process Friday evening. Then it is added back my account only to be subtracted again Tuesday morning (today) and sure enough it was. This is just a warning for a lot of people that are not aware of this. I know I wasn't at one time and I'm lucky I carried enough of a balance to not overdraft.
Soaring Consumer on 02/23/2010:
Voted helpful, good job Varekai for pointing this out.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
Varekai, I agree with Soaring --- Good review! Good comments as well.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
Agree with Chuck. The OP wouldn't be able to do his own calculations if he wasn't somehow keeping track, on his own, of what his balance truly is vs. what it shows online.
goduke on 02/23/2010:
If you're keeping meticulous records of your own, why does it matter what the online balance says?
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
Mae, here's the difference. If your transaction comes through the ATM switch, it hits your account and is deducted immediately. If it comes through the POS switch, it is a pending transaction, which does hit your account immediately, but may not be for the exact amount of the purchase. Further, if the merchant does not submit the debit immediately, the pending transaction times out, and drops off your account, and your balance goes back up. When the transaction is presented, it will post to your account and your balance will drop back down. So, if you don't have a check register to verify against, do you think you can rely on that balance to always be true? As I have said at least 900 times, it is intended to be a tool to help you verify your register, not the balance to live by.
jktshff1 on 02/23/2010:
Seems like another old person who uses commen sense and calculations to verify what is going on with the account.
does seem like a way for the banks to "scam" an overdraft or another fee into their pockets.
madconsumer on 02/23/2010:
"Actually the banks SHOULD be able to give you a minute by minute accurate picture of how much you spent. The technology is out there and been used for years, real-time purchasing. You make a purchase, BAM, the funds are out of your account."
if this was the case, there would be more denial of charges.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
And there will be Mad, come July
MissMae on 02/23/2010:
Ken, I am sorry you've had to explain this 900 times now. I won't keep asking. I don't know how it works, all I know is that I've banked with Banner Bank for over 8 years now, and my pending transactions always show up in the exact dollar amount that I've charged. I checked today and I have 4 pending transactions. They equal the 4 receipts sitting here at my desk, down to the penny. One is for gas, one is for a grocery store, one is from Walgreens, and one is for stamps at the post office. I don't get it, I'm just going to be thankful for my banking choice.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
That's not surprising Mae, you probably patronize the same places, and they do the same thing. The point is that you cannot depend on them being the same. The best example is gas stations, typically they hold either a dollar (to verify the account) or a maximum amount like $75. I think GD noted today that his ga station doesn't hold at all.
The way these items post doesn't have much to do with the banks, they all use the same networks, and pretty much the only variable is the number of days before they drop a pending transaction. Other than that, they all hit the accounts exactly the same way.
Varekai on 02/23/2010:
Why do I check my register and online account? In the past year I was double charged on one item from a well known department store and it took 15 days to reverse it. The company admitted the mistake and said they would pay for any overcharges. They suggest I contact the bank and the bank said take it up with the company! I never would have caught this until my bank statement came in the mail. Another time I was charged the wrong amount (overcharge) from a restaurant and when I contacted them they said no problem it will correct itself. 2 weeks later after repeated attempts I corrected it dealing with the restaurant and the bank. Even if a business makes a mistake the bank doesn't care who made the mistake. I always carry a plus balance and glad I did. By checking the online account I could get on the problem instantly instead of waiting for the bank statement to show up. Even when the business says no problem we'll pay any overdraft charges it doesn't make it right as I have to go through the time and effort to fix their problem which becomes mine instantly. My register was right all along but if I didn't have a plus balance I would have suffered the overdraft mess. I'm glad I could check the online account and see the wrong charges. My frustration is the disappearing pending charges come and go. That is why I use both register and online accounts to at least have the best information available. Myself, businesses and banks make mistakes! I have to get involved regardless of who makes the mistakes!
tnchuck100 on 02/23/2010:
Varekai, many here could use lessons on how to make proper use of on-line banking information. You properly track your transactions and are always aware of what SHOULD be in the bank. That way you can spot bank or merchant error BEFORE it can snowball into a windfall for the bank.
As you can see there are many diverse opinions about your post. Some get it. Some don't.
Excellent review. Plus your comments have added even more value as well.
Venice09 on 02/23/2010:
Excellent explanation and examples, Varekai. If more people paid that kind of attention to their accounts and their money, there would be a lot less problems with banking. You are obviously a well-spoken, detail oriented person who takes his banking seriously, and I learned something from your review.
MissMae on 02/23/2010:
Agree with tnchuck and Lost, very good review and very good responses, Varekai.
I'm very curious why a pending transaction would ever drop off at the end of the day, and then put right back on the next day. Can anyone explain that? I don't need to hear that it doesn't matter how many times a transaction drops off and on as long as I keep a check register, I would like to know what logical reason this would ever happen.
tnchuck100 on 02/23/2010:
MissMae, it is entirely a bank processing thing. Each bank may do it slightly differently. In this case (I have a bank that does this as well) the bank does maintenance and reverts back to some previous point in time an shows static data for a time and then updates their system and restores items that occurring since that static snapshot. It's not simple to explain but each bank may have a variation on their update process.
At any rate, you can bet the larger banks full well realize the problems this may cause their unsuspecting customers and benefit greatly from it.
Anonymous on 02/23/2010:
It drops off, Mae, because it has reached the end of whatever timer the bank has set, then is back the next day because the debit has been presented by the merchant.
MissMae on 02/23/2010:
Thanks tnchuck, that makes sense. So when my bank does maintenance, they post a statmeent saying "Scheduled maintenance from such and such to such and such time. During this time you will not be able to access your online account..." This is usually posted 3-4 days before the maintenance period. Now it makes sense why they block accessing the online account during this time.
And Ken, I understand that, but both the OP and tnchuck stated their banks do this often, and I can't really see too many merchants letting the pre-auth time period lapse, most reconcile same time, every day, well before banks close so your example should be a pretty rare thing to see.
tnchuck100 on 02/23/2010:
Ken, just for the record in my case (and I think the OP's as well) my bank will drop a pending transaction a 6:00PM and you will not see it again until 7:00AM the next morning and it will reappear still as a pending and does not post until later. Now this does not happen all the time. Maybe 4 or 5 times a month.
Varekai on 02/23/2010:
Thanks to everyone for their input! You won't believe this! It has to do with the double charge from the department store on a pair of shoes. I notice the same charge was duplicated the minute I got home. I call the dept store and they said no problem they'll cancel it. I asked is there anything else I need to do and they no it is cancelled right now. How long before the refund? 2-3 business days. Great! 4 days later it was still deducted from my account and I called the bank to see if they could help. I was told incorrectly from the dept store the bank has to act as they (dept store) had reversed the charges. The bank said no record of it. Back and forth and 15 days later it was taken off. This is my example of what could go wrong and I had done nothing to do with it. I asked the manager what do I have to due to get this charge off my account? The manager at the bank said, "Sometime reversal of charges just kind of float in no man's land and suddenly it will disappear". It is somewhere between the dept store and the bank. My only option was to keep enough in my account to cover it for 15 days or the whole mess would start up again. I never did find out who was holding up the process. Didn't really matter as I was the one with the problem for 15 days. I knew I was in trouble when the store said check with the bank and the bank said check with the store. Needless to say you can now see why I use the online banking as well as the register to try to make some sense out of this and now it is time to move to a credit union or local community bank. I know these are extreme examples but they did occur.
eschev on 02/23/2010:
Where I live, when I use my debit card at a gas station and scan it as a credit card, a $1 debit will show up right away from my bank account. The remaining amount will show up a few days later. So, obviously, transactions and how they are handled vary from bank, credit union, and type of business. IMHO, the best thing is to keep track of your accounts is online and with a check register. (and, of course, never spend more money than you have!) :)
dianelh on 03/15/2010:
I am waiting for Key Bank to "assess" (unfair) overdraft fees to my account. My online account indicated on Saturday, all funds available, nothing pending. This morning, Monday I am overdrawn and they've put a "hold" on a corporate/local check I deposited on Friday. My online statement did not indicate anything as being held or pending, it indicated that all the monies deposited had become available. The check deposited was from a major corporation with a local bank and I just figured, that's why it was immediately available. This stinks and I see I'm not the only one who has had a problem with Key Bank's online banking.
Anonymous on 03/15/2010:
"they've put a "hold" on a corporate/local check I deposited on Friday."
What time did you deposit it? If a teller doesn't tell you your check is on hold, chances are your receipt will tell you what they aren't.
"My online statement did not indicate anything as being held or pending,"
A reason to not rely on what it tells you online... because it doesn't show everything.
yoke on 03/15/2010:
I used my debit card for gas this morning. Now my online balance states I have $1,291 available. I know I wrote a check for $566 on Thursday and the amount for gas was $45.00. Now do I have $1,291 to spend or do I have $680 to spend? Depending on whom you talk to the amount will be different because if you go by the online balance, which many do, I have much more to spend then I have available. I know I have $680 to spend but it amazes me how many would actually say they have the full amount since the bank did not post them transacations yet.
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Key Bank .. Do Not Bank With Them... Horrible .. Overdraft Fees When You Clearly Do Not Overdraft.
Posted by
MANSFIELD OHIO, OHIO -- First of all I started my checking account in June by July I have had to battle with this bank several times in 30 days I have had 5 overdraw charges and problems with the cashing of my checks that I deposit into the ATM. First problem I deposited my check into ATM and the first hundred dollars was quickly added to my debit card however it took them 5 business days to add the rest by that time I had used my card not knowing that this was their procedure ..
They did remove that fee... I thanked them and went on 2nd problem... Another fee ... Because that I put my check in the ATM on Friday and on Monday my check still was not processed and when I contacted the bank the teller told me my check had been processed and I was able to use my debit. I used the card for a nine dollar purchase and received a 39 dollar charge 2 days later for overdrawing my account.
I call the bank and they tell me it was a miscomunication and to contact my local branch so I did and they said sorry ... We can not remove this I called corporate and finally 1 week later they removed the charge however I was then charged 39 dollars for another check that cleared the account that night that never even showed up as pending ... And I had more than enough money to cover it had they not took out there bogus fees. So I check my online statement and wow..... I had been charged again a 39 dollar fee and then again 39 more dollars where they moved the 39 dollar fee up and put another debit charge that had cleared two days prior above the charge that I received beforefor 39 dollars and bam... That initiated another charge... So now I have 3 overlimit charges of 39 dollars a piece and I'm now negative 85 dollars in my account I am contacting the BBB and have made copies of the statements that clearly state that I had enough money and last but final .... I add all transactions up and I am missing 50 dollars that I guess just disappears because when I add all my deposits and all that I have spen minus their fees ... I still would be 50 to the good... So where is it at??? No one knows and they told me the last time I talked to them that 2 was the limit they will not remove any other items from my account ,,,, imagine that.... The iceing to my cake I talked to a friend about it and they did the same thing to her .... 700 In two months of overdraft fees where does this end??? Please I beg you do not bank with this company ... They will hold checks and send through transactions when your balance is already low ......... Just to give you charges I guess this is how they clearly make their money
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Anonymous on 07/25/2009:
As with all banks, all check deposits are held longer for the first thirty days after opening an account. Depositing it into an ATM takes even longer.
Get out your account terms that you received when you opened your account. Key Bank's funds availability and transaction policies will be in there. There will also be a section in it concerning new accounts. By reading it you will not have to rely on what a CSR or teller tells you. You don't have to memorize it, you should only be aware that you can not make assumptions about the banks policies.
tnchuck100 on 07/25/2009:
Your problems could have probably been avoided if you had taken the time to read your account agreement. Maybe. OTOH it is a common practice for many big banks to back out posted transactions so as to rearrange the order for the sole purpose of extracting more fees. You should have come here first and checked out the complaints about them before getting mixed up with them.
Balance your accounts. Close them. Find a credit union. Read their terms. They have funds availability policies similar to the banks as well. But they do not rearrange transactions to see just how much money they can extort from you. Good luck.
Anonymous on 07/25/2009:
Well, a credit union may or may not make a difference. They still have extended holds on check deposits for new accounts and depending if they are Federally chartered or state chartered their funds availability and transaction processing may or may not be better. Again as suggested you will need to read their account agreement. A credit union does have a more favorable fee structure.
GenuineNerd on 07/25/2009:
The all caps is inappropriate, but I understand your feelings about the matter. All banks put "holds" on deposits, whether through a human teller or an ATM, for a few days. In the case of checks, it's usually until the check clears. Although most checks are processed instantaneously anymore, it usually does take a long time on occasion to process a check, whether it's a paycheck or a personal check. If direct deposit is available through your employer, you usually have immediate access to your entire pay since the transaction is electronic. Whenever I deposit a paper check, I usually give it 3-4 days before I withdraw money from it. My bank (US Bank) puts holds on deposited paper checks for 2-3 days...and I've dealt with US Bank and its predecessors (Firstar, Star Bank, Transohio Savings, Citizens Federal Savings) for over 35 years.
It's not a good idea to withdraw money, or write checks against, a deposited paper check until you are certain the check clears. Most banks give you access to a certain amount of the check immediately, but put a hold on the rest of the check until it clears...and this is regardless of whether you had this account for 30 days or 30 years. Again, if your employer offers direct deposit of your paycheck, arrange to have it done, since this will give you access to your entire paycheck the first day the deposit is posted, since it is done electronically.
madconsumer on 07/25/2009:
checks deposited via atm on Friday, normally won't credit until midnight Monday.
Soaring Consumer on 07/25/2009:
I think the main problem here is that the teller told the OP that the funds from the check were available for spending, when they actually weren't. This is a bank error.
madconsumer on 07/25/2009:
did the posster verify the deposit cleared prior to spending??
madconsumer on 07/25/2009:
a verbal verification is not positive.
yoke on 07/25/2009:
The teller did not tell the OP the funds from the check were available. The teller told the OP that the check had processed and that the OP can use the ATM card. How was the teller to know that the OP did not know how to use a checking account properly and would spend more than what was available. If I were the bank I would close this account. The OP wants to blame everyone but themselves for their errors.
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Do yourself a favor, just go through another bank.
Posted on
CLEVELAND, OHIO -- I have banked with Key Bank for over a year because of their local branch's proximity to my apartment. I never had a problem with them until recently. I'll be as brief as possible.
I made a mistake on my registry. I was supposed to get a deposit from PayPal within a certain number of business days. It breached that number of business days, so I wrote down that this amount of money was in my account. I proceeded to spend less than the total of the money I already had and the money from PayPal, much less. There was a total of five transactions in 48 hours. The PayPal money wasn't there so I overDrew on the last two transactions, once by $0.50 and they other time by $6.54. I'm a full time college student who is not presently employed and I am selling some of my possessions on eBay to get by.
A few hours later, I am checking my Key Bank account and I notice I have a negative balance. This is when I learn that this PayPal transaction did not go through yet. I promptly go to the bank and make a deposit that more than covers the days transactions. I check my bank account again when I get home and it shows a positive balance. This was within the same calendar day so I thought the problem was solved. I was wrong again.
Two days later, there is one overDraft fee on my account. I call to explain what happened and ask if they can remove it as a one time courtesy. Most banks do this, I know Chase does. They informed me that I will need to call back the next day because four more fees will be added. I beg them to work with me and they won't. I call again so I may speak with a supervisor. She has an attitude problem and basically tells me that all they can do is remove 25% of the fees. I try to reason with her considering my financial cul-de-sac and she makes it clear that she doesn't care. I understand that her job is not to hold my hand, but I thought that the attitude was very unnecessary. She tells me that under all circumstances, the money MUST be in the account AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE. I do know that, but she refuses to understand that it was an honest mistake, and I deposited the money a few hours after the transactions and the online banking tool showed that my account was positive.
When you bank with Key Bank, somehow two overDrafts become five, because that is what happened to me. I don't even know how this is legal! Anyway, they buried me in $183.00 in overDraft fees over a measly $7.04. Also, 25% of the fees does not help at all because three of them shouldn't be on my account to begin with!
I go to the branch nearest me, only to be told that the woman I want to speak to is at another branch a couple of miles away. That's kind of irritating, but whatever. I speak to her and she explains that they add the fees before the transactions come through therefore taking up all of those funds before the transactions you made hit. This is interesting because the woman on the telephone customer service line tells me that they money must be in the account at the time of the transaction. For the first three, it was! Even if you arrange the transaction so the three most expensive go through first, they first three were absolutely covered.
So basically, Key Bank reserves the right to take two days worth of transactions and rearrange them after adding a fee so you overDraw your account a few more times than you actually did. I don't know why they did this with two days worth of transactions anyway. The first was on one day, and the last four were on the next day. I tell her this and "all she can do" is remove two of the fees. That still doesn't help.
I must save my next phone call to customer service because there is a fee for calling. This is called an "Excessive Telephone Inquiry Service Charge" where if you call and speak with a representative more than three times in a month, you will be charged $1.50 for each call. FYI, if you call the automated system more than eight times in a statement period, they will charge your account $0.75 for each subsequent call. So, even if they make a mistake on your account, and it takes more than three representatives to clear it up, you will have to pay for what they are supposed to include with their service. I don't know of any other bank that charges their customers to call CUSTOMER SERVICE more than three times a month. I guess it doesn't matter, because they are unwilling to add the human touch to their service and work with their customers. You may as well speak with a robot.
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Anonymous on 07/06/2009:
You should have checked your account to make sure the PayPal transaction had occurred first before drawing against it instead of after.
Depending upon when you deposited the money to cover your overdrafts dictates when the funds are available to draw against in your account. Banks have a transaction cutoff time off time of around mid-sfternoon. Any transaction made after the cutoff time are processed on the next business day. So, though the running balance may have indicated the deposit was in your account it may not have been available to draw against for your overdrafts.
Your account agreement has a section that explains all this.
The custemer service rep was correct in that when you initiate the transaction, the funds for that transaction are placed on hold. They can not be drawn against for any other debit transactions. The funds are not actually paid out of your account and posted until the merchant processes the transaction and it is received by the bank. If you do not have the funds available to place on hold when the transaction is initiated, you will be accessed a fee. Again, you account agreement has a section in it that explains all this.
tnchuck100 on 07/06/2009:
Robf, you have done an excellent job pointing out what the bank is doing and how liz is at fault.
How about explaining how rearranging two days of transactions so as to bleed the customer to the greatest extent possible is fair. You can't.
She admits an error. The bank persecuted her beyond all sense of reasonableness for it.
liz, some here do not understand the issues involved. Close your accounts and find a credit union. Good luck.
MaggieMcT on 07/06/2009:
And when you find a credit union, remember that they also have overdraft fees. It may be a different process, but they will still hit you with fees if you overdraw your account.
tnchuck100 on 07/06/2009:
Maggie, no one ever said credit unions don't have overdraft fees. Credit unions just don't do everything possible to destroy the customer.
grandma005 on 07/06/2009:
Next time use a credit card. You would have avoided these NSF fees. After PayPal deposited the money then you could have paid the credit card using Billpay.
Anonymous on 07/06/2009:
Robf, I understand that I should have checked my balance. Thanks for restating the obvious that I already pointed out. My other point on that matter, which again you obviously missed, was that they could have removed the ligitimate fees for a one time courtesy. All my friends who have accounts with other banks understand when you make a one time mistake and Key Bank doesn't. Apparently, neither do you.
I know that the transactions are put on hold and they are not processed right away. You are missing my point. They cannot process the fee first, therefore causing transactions that were properly funded to overdraw. I did read the agreement, it does not say anywhere that they can do this.
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KeyBank Closed My Account for No Legitimate Reason
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CLEVELAND, OHIO -- I opened an account on January 17, 2012. Two days later, the personal banker called and told me that she had to close my account because she said that I was on ChexSystems. So, I went to another bank local immediately after notification of my account closure with KeyBank to see if the same thing would happen. I found out that I was not on ChexSystems. I was able to open an account with another bank without any problems. My information was run and verified with both ChexSystems and Equifax at the time that I applied for the account. Ultimately, I was clear with both agencies. It is odd that a bank would tell one this two days later. Besides KeyBank, every bank that I have ever used in the past has been able to verify me with ChexSystems at the time that I applied to open an account. I signed up for direct depisit on the date that I opened the account. Because KeyBank inconvenienced me by notifying me two days later that my account was closed, I had to wait an extra week to get paid. The lady who opened my account was not nice and isn't good at dealing with people, but rather arrogant and snobbish. KeoyBank is said to be the worst bank in Columbus, according to a recent survey. This explains why KeyBank doesn't have many customers and people don't keep accounts there long. Like my coworkers, I highly recommend that You stay away from KeyBank.
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DENVER, COLORADO -- Started charging a $5.00 "maintenance" fee on my account because I was not using it enough. CHarged me another $5.00 when I closed the account, but only informed me of that when it was too late to waive the fee. Essentially stole $10.00 from me for doing absolutely nothing and then justified it by saying other banks charge more. I don't care what other banks are doing if I am not their customer. If I could charge someone $5.00 every time I hit enter on the keyboard I would be rich by now. Rip off! Too bad they can't maintain good customer relations!
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Anonymous on 10/24/2011:
I agree. Too many credit unions or regional banks that don't charge any fees out there to choose from to pay any bank a fee to be their customer. Good review.
At Your Service on 10/25/2011:
It's been in the news recently and there are credit unions that aren't charging the fees. I agree it's ridiculous, but I would just about bet you were informed of it coming.
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Overdraft Ripoff Scheme and Threats Made in Person on on Phone
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$34.00 that is what this is all about. Prior to the bank closing on Saturday a deposit was made. Some bills were paid on Monday, but the check was applied after the bills despite an overdraft account. I checked Monday everything looked fine. I checked Tuesday---an overdraft fee--when according to my statement and online register---BOTH--- I never went negative. I call the 800 number and they said go talk to the branch manager. I did. He was very mean and acted like a cartoon villain as he explained they can put deposits and debits in any order they want. I asked about another bill that was due to come out on Monday but hadn't, and he said he hoped they would put it in on Monday, so he could charge another overdraft fee retroactively, and as many other fees as he could find for my account. Then he realized my account opened in 1983 was with a branch five miles away. I had to contact that bank. I did by phone and was told she was out of the office for the day, and that they would monitor my account for anything odd. The original manager called me at work reissued his threat, and claimed to have spoken to the other manager.
I called his bluff and he admitted he had not spoken to her. I told him not to call again, or I would consider it harassment. This morning the assistant called and said that they could not reverse the fee according to their rules. I have not been able to speak to the manager who was more than happy to speak to us when my daughter and partner opened accounts with her. In NYS they say on the banking complaint website that most National banks apply deposits first, but they don't have to. Since 1983 I have only been charged two overdraft fees one was reversed. I am very upset that the bank manager did not speak to me personally. Conclusion: Key bank is not as nice to work with as they used to be.
Resolution Update 11/10/2010:
Apology and refund were given.
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Anonymous on 11/10/2010:
Wow, sounds like that manager was being a prick. If I were you, when all of this is said and done, I would go BACK to the branch with the nasty manager and tell him you want HIM to close your account, and tell him why. Put your money somewhere where you are appreciated, because obviously that manager doesn't want your business.
trmn8r on 11/10/2010:
Aside from the odd interaction with the manager, the processing and overdraft procedure is as described to you at many banks.
I always keep a buffer in my checking account, so that I am not on pins and needles hoping not to overdraft. It leads to a more stress-free life for me. I don't keep a check register. But I saw all the stress keeping a register and resolving discrepancies caused my mother. If I did keep one, I probably wouldn't need the buffer.
Anonymous on 11/10/2010:
pins and needles,
needles and pins.
It's a happy man that grins.
hardworker15 on 11/10/2010:
I received an apology.
hardworker15 on 11/10/2010:
Listen Obs. It did happen. Maybe he was having a bad day. The whole was way more personal than I let on here. It was a case of a young man treating a middle aged woman like an idiot,and he even inquired about my recent trend downward in my finances for one was a huge school tax bill that I paid in full, according to the tax collector one of the few. I was waiting for some payments that have not come in, so there was some expectation that it would not go to this. Including one reimbursement check I received today and $6800 I am waiting on, not to mention my paycheck. It makes me angry to think that men always assume that it is the woman's fault. It is time for women to expect respect from men. I am intelligent, well respected in my field, and was shocked by this behavior as were the four tellers who expressed shock as I left the office, and I went up to the window to cash and deposit more checks. But no worries by next week I will have about $7000 in the account, more per usual, but do I have to explain this to a person with such disregard. They refunded the overdraft, and apologized--corporate did, not the manager. So keep the rude assumptions to yourselves please. I think overall they handled it with grace and fairness.
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Key Bank Dirty Thieves
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TUMWATER,, WASHINGTON -- Key Bank made a mistake by not adding my new address to my account when I switched from a campground address to a PO Box address after I became a resident of WA. I called Key Bank to tell them my new address. They wouldn't accept a phone call to do a change of address. So I used my manual wheelchair in the snow in January 2009 to personally go into the bank and change my address, even took the slip from the Post Office to give them proof of new address. Never got another statement from them from Jan 09 to Aug 09. During that time I had deposited money into that account to pay my phone bills with through auto debit. Got a call that I had never changed my address and my statements were being returned to KB and they were charging me $10 for every month a statement was returned. Here is the name for this service. Statement Information Safekeeping FEE. Charge for this service $10.00 each time you don't receive you statement. Guess what? You never know about this fee because you never get a statement telling you this is going on because they didn't actually change your address in their system. Here's the kicker. I went in to cancel my account after I found out they had the only ATM that charged $3.00 to use their ATM with another banks card. Also that they charge $32 and up for insufficient funds. I had a soft heart and let the guy talk me into keeping my account. He said it would be good to keep it for an emergency or if I needed to change banks. I kept the account and changed my address that same day. Damn stupid mistake on my part. So not only did they keep charginG me $10 for the Safekeeping fee. They caused me to go insuf, on my phone debit. I was keeping record of the phone bills and the amount of money I put in the KB so I wouldn't go over. I thought they were sending out statements Bi-annually the reason I wasn't getting a statement. I fought with them on the phone and finally got them to remove the $32 overdraft charge and the month of July $10 safekeeping fee. THEIR EXCUSE FOR NOT GIVING ME THE OTHER MONTH'S SAFEKEEPING FEES IS THAT THEY CAN'T GO BACK FARTHER THAN ONE MONTH. EACH MONTH THE STATEMENTS DROP OFF THEIR SYSTEM SO YOU CAN'T BE REFUNDED. I SAID YOU CAN SEE THEM SO YOU CAN REFUND THEM, THEY SAID NO EVEN IF THEY CAN SEE THEM THEY WILL NOT CREDIT THEM BACK BECAUSE THEY'RE OFF THE SYSTEM. RUN INTO THEIR BANK AND TAKE $10 FROM THEM AND SEE IF THEY WON'T CALL THE COPS AND THROW YOU IN JAIL. THEY CAN LEGALLY STEAL FROM YOU, AND YOU CAN'T DO A DAMN THING ABOUT IT. STAY AWAY FROM KEY BANK
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Skye on 08/14/2009:
So you had a soft heart huh??
kymberlie77 on 08/27/2009:
I just filed a complaint against them w/the federal reserve (Link: http://www.federalreserveconsumerhelp.gov/) I encourage you due to the same. They charged me 2 overdraft fees and I had enough in my account!
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text: 3 OLD SCHOOL RULES!MovieAddict | 10/05/2013 | See all MovieAddict's reviews (1336)Top 10 Reviewer Top 10 DVD Reviewer Arnie has been back more times than I can remember. This is supposed to be his big come back after taking time out from his polital career. But if memory serves be right his comeback was with Epxendables 2 as the he announced " I'm Back!". Anyhow on reflection his comeback was muted to poor box-office results for this old school actioner. The Last Stand is basically a western with sports cars and massive fire power. the plot is simple, nasty Mexican drug dealer escapes prison and makes a run for the border with the help of his personal army but hindered by Arnie being a small border town sheriff who's town is stuck in the middle. With the help of the good old towns folk and the police department they take up arms to stop him. The first forty minutes is a bit of a drag, but things do liven up afterwards with implausable stunts, implausable plot holes and implausable dialogue. In this world 50 cal rounds can shoot you in the arm with just leaving a hole and bullets from assault rifles cannot pass through cars and chairs and you can explode from being shot by a flair gun in the back! But in a funny kind of way it's so bad it's actually entertaining. The action is well staged, the film has it tongue in it's cheek as it knows how dumb it is. Some of the jokes are quite funny, but Jonny Knoxville does irritate and the whole fake hostage situation is pointless and some characters might have not been written in as they have nothing to do. By the final showdown of a race through a corn field leading to Arnie laying down the law with the bad guy. It's all predictable stuff but on the whole it's ok viewing if you're drunk.It's not the come back we wanted, but when you take into account the last really good film Arnie made was Terminator 2 way back in 1991 this could have been a lot worse.He's made his last stand now it's time for Arnie to retire with what respect he's got left before he becomes a parody of his former self.See If You Liked.......Roadhouse.Walking Tall.Red Heat.Faster.

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