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News articles about stolen luggage
Posted by
The 8th of February 2011
Airport police arrested 17 luggage handlers working for Charles de Gaule Airport. The loot was worth 300 000 euros.
And on the 2nd March 2011, at the Orly Airport, Paris second airport, 10 luggage handlers have been arrested. Police suspects they have stolen goods for an amount of 800 000 euros.
October 01, 2010
SIXTEEN baggage handlers from Charles de Gaulle Airport are facing jail after being convicted of a €450,000 series of thefts.
Employed by Air France company Trac-Piste, they stole dozens of laptops, iPhones and iPods, video cameras, jewellery, perfume, satnavs, cash and travellers cheques.
The men's haul also included more than one hundred pairs of designer shoes.
In all, more than 500 passengers were robbed between 2007 and 2008.
The baggage handlers, aged between 24 and 48, admitted the thefts. They targeted flights they felt were the "richest"; towards Switzerland or northern Italy.
Prosecutors have asked for jail sentences of between six months and a year and fines of between €1,000 and €3,000.
However, lawyers for Air France have demanded heavier fines of €117,500, plus €300,000 for the damage to its image and €200,000 for lost business.
Sentence will be delivered on November 3.
Monday 01 October 2007
Nineteen baggage handlers working at Charles-de-Gaulle Paris airport have been found guilty of the theft of baggage.
A similar case occurred in December 2006 when 20 baggage handlers at the airport were found guilty of theft.
Together, the two cases mean that over the past two years around 40 baggage handlers have been caught with their fingers in passengers' luggage.
Authorities have been forced to acknowledge that these were not isolated incidents, but an organised theft.
Neither does the problem appear to be restricted to Paris, for last year twelve baggage handlers at Nice airport were arrested on suspicion of the theft of baggage items, following over 400 complaints from passengers in a single year. It is estimated that losses amounted to around €500,000.
The most recent incident at Paris Charles-de-Gaulle covered a period during 2001 to 2003, when airport police intercepted 27 baggage handlers after viewing footage from CCTV screens in the airport terminal.
The handlers did not deny culpability, although as part of their defence they argued that it was custom and practice for it to happen!
Two of the handlers were sent to prison for around a year, whilst others were given suspended sentences. In addition, each was found up to €15,000 in damages, payable to Air France and their employer, Bag Ground Services (BGS).
Somewhat to the surprise of prosecutors, none of the felons was banned by the court from exercising this activity in the future. Nevertheless, it is unlikely many will find an employer who will readily hire them.
Air France reported to the court having paid out around €700,000 in compensation to passengers and had sought €1,250,000 in total damages from the baggage handling company. The airport finally reached an out of court settlement with the company concerning compensation for the thefts.
04 May 2003
French police have broken up a gang of crooked baggage handlers who used X-ray machines to select items worth looting from travellers at the country's busiest airport.
In a series of dawn raids, officers seized stolen digital cameras, laptop computers, expensive clothes, watches, jewels and perfumes from the homes of staff working at Roissy-Charles de Gaulle airport near Paris. Thirty-two people were arrested.
The gang is thought to have been responsible for more than 1,200 thefts from the airport, which is used by about 12 million passengers every year. They worked in an underground department in Terminal 2F where luggage is sorted according to flight numbers after passengers have checked in.
Detectives say that the thieves usually worked in pairs - with one acting as a look-out to warn of the arrival of a supervisor or security officer. They often targeted flights to Asia, particularly Japan, as many Japanese tourists and businessmen are known to travel with expensive electronic equipment and to purchase large quantities of luxury goods.
Unlocked suitcases were opened, searched and items of value taken. Locked ones sometimes simply vanished or were electronically scanned for valuables and had their locks broken off.
One of the investigating officers said: "Sometimes they chose a suitcase at random and went through it searching for jewellery or cash, but several times they used the X-ray machines to find objects which interested them, such as cameras or CD players.
"In a flash, a piece of luggage would disappear from the conveyor belt, be opened, plundered and put back on the belt. When they were forced to break into the cases, pieces of locks were left around the belt."
After discovering broken padlocks, the police put baggage handlers under surveillance to uncover the thieves.
The raids were carried out by 90 officers from three police forces in and around Paris after an investigation lasting more than a year.
The inquiry was launched after airlines operating out of Charles de Gaulle complained about the "unusually high" level of baggage losses from the terminal, which handles flights to Japan, Singapore, Indonesia, SAudi Arabia and South America.
At the homes of 16 of the suspects the police discovered a variety of electronic goods. "It was like a collection from Ali Baba's cave," said one officer.
The police would not put an estimate on the value of the stolen goods seized, but some of the watches recovered were said to be worth between €2,000 and €3,000(£1,300 and £2,000) each.
The items recovered are only a fraction of the goods stolen, with most being resold by the thieves. Police are trying to establish whether the gang was part of a wider crime ring.
Georges Kaemmerlen, the head of air transport police, said: "It was a whole culture. The thieves had good days and bad days. For them it was a job - a way of getting goods for themselves on the cheap or to sell them on the black market."
Capt Frederique Nourdin, the commander of air transport police at Roissy-Charles de Gaulle airport, said: "A considerable quantity of property has been recovered, including perfume, cameras, expensive watches, jewellery, computers and cash, but we haven't yet calculated the total value of the haul. We set up an undercover operation at the terminal and for over a year we collected enough evidence to prove who was involved in certain thefts."
Several suspects appeared in court on Thursday while others are still under investigation.
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Anonymous on 09/14/2011:
"...employed by Air France company Trac-Piste..." Who does ground handling for a few airlines... so why the hatchet job on AF? Theft, though reprehensible occurs at every airport - statistically no more at CDG than other airports... heck here in America we have incidents of the Federal security people stealing (TSA), which is beyond disgusting.
AF only crime I see is 10 across seating on the B777!!!
Old Timer on 09/14/2011:
10 across seating? There is no way on God's green Earth you would get me in coach on that cattle car. I thought 9 was about the max you could stuff in there.
"lawyers for Air France have demanded heavier fines of â¬117,500, plus â¬300,000 for the damage to its image" LMAO, yeah, like Air France has such a great rep!
trmn8r on 09/14/2011:
10 across is OK if the plane is about 20% occupied (: I have done it.
10 across with full occupancy is equivalent to driving knives under the finger nails.
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Air France has the worst customer service in the history of the world
Posted by
Ubaka...I've just learned the name of my new mortal enemy. For those of you who have not had the displeasure of meeting Ubaka, let me spare you. Ubaka is a horrible human being who works at Air France in LAX. I'm calling to complain extensively about him tomorrow, in an effort to spare other customers from his wrath. That's right Ubaka. You're going down.
AF has been my personal hell for about 3 months now, ever since my boss got downgraded for a flight. Flying to and from Paris, she was downgraded from "Premium Economy" (which I'm still not sure even exists) to Economy. After being promised all sorts of compensation for her downgrade, she received none. I had to spend several months and countless hours by phone, fax, and email to get the refund for the difference in her ticket price, and a "good will voucher" that basically forces you to fly Air France again, (as if you would ever want to) because it's not good for any of their partner airlines.
So, I finally got this voucher, right? And my boss decided to use it. Come to find the only way to use it is to go to the air France counter at an airport and book it in person - which they charge you $35 for. I get there, and wait in line for an hour, finally get to the counter, and UBAKA tells me he just can't help me right now, because there are other people in line trying to make their flights. He proceeds to usher everyone in line behind me forward, while I wait there for another 20 minutes. When the line is empty, another attendant named Phil takes my vouchers and says it will be 20 minutes for him to book my flights, and he has to go to the back office to do it. I waited 40 minutes and approached the counter again. At this time, I was now late for work. I asked Ubaka to fetch Phil and ask him what my status was, and he refused. He said the office was "all the way down there" and he couldn't walk over there and get him. I tried to explain to him my situation - that I might get fired because I am late for work, having been here to purchase a ticket for nearly 2.5 hours. But he turned around and walked away while I was in mid sentence, rolling his eyes, purposefully ignoring me, and started talking to another customer. I tracked down Phil myself, and was told he can't finish booking my tickets until tomorrow because the counter was closing in 15 minutes. 3 hours later, and absolutely nothing to show for it, I went to work late and infuriated. I sent my boyfriend back in to LAX just to get Ubaka's name, and Ubaka was a total a-hole to my boyfriend too. I vowed then and there that I would take Air France and Ubaka down. And now, it is my new mission in life.
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Anonymous on 01/13/2011:
I don't understand how you could be late for work when you were working for you boss getting the flight. You can't fault the employee for taking care of the passengers getting ready to fly that day. Other than that, anything having to do with France is garbage.
Anonymous on 01/13/2011:
Is this a complaint letter, or a threat?
MRM on 01/13/2011:
Do what I do, cast a death spell upon your enemy.
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Air France = DIABOLICAL AIRLINE - Never, ever fly with them!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by
Air France are absolutely without doubt the worst airline we have had the misfortune to travel with!!!
Our flight to Paris was delayed so after a ridiculous lengthy transfer from plane to terminal and no sense of urgency through the security queue we were not allowed to catch the connecting flight at Rio AF444 on 26th December despite the plane being delayed for over an hour. That meant that over 10 people missed that particular flight. The Air France desk was mobbed by dozens of people who had missed their connections - obviously nothing new for Air France!!!
The next available flight at night was overbooked by 14 people - (how can a flight be possibly overbooked by this many people = they obviously count on unbeknowing passengers missing their connecting flight that's why!!
So we had no choice but to stay overnight in Paris and get on the next das flight, 27th December.
We asked at this point where our luggage was and the Air France representative reassured us that the luggage was there in Paris and would get on the connecting flight.
When we caught the actual flight again the plane was delayed by an hour due to bags being on there without their owners. In this time, other passengers (some of them elderly) joined the plane - upon speaking to them they had also had little time to make the connection but had been allowed to board. But guess what these poor people had no seats, they had all been double booked!!! After much fiddling about and these passengers stood in the aisle they were finally found other seats.
Upon arriving at Rio some 13 hours later, it appeared that my suitcase was missing, along with another 30+ passengers!!!! However there were still about 20 unclaimed bags going round the carousel.
We queued up for a lengthy amount of time and filed a report. It was here that the airport official advised that my suitcase had never left Manchester!! That means that the Air France representative in Paris bare-facedly LIED to us.
We were given a number to call in Rio to follow up the whereabouts of the bag - tried calling it every day since (6 days and counting now) -nobody even answers, it is an absolute disgrace. I called Air France in England but they were extremely unhelpful and said only someone in Rio could help me - nobody answers the bloody phone in Rio!!!! They then gave me two telephone numbers which are both out of service...helpful, thanks for that!!
They only give you 100 euros for immediate needs - and what does that buy for a 3 week holiday??? hardly anything!!! They promise to provide you with a toiletry kit but there wasn~t any available.
Used the tracker system and it just says PENDING - to me that says that they have done nothing to even try look for this missing suitcase.
Oh and surprise surprise the details on the tracker system are incorrect = the Air France representative only had to write about 10 sentences down and couldn~t even get that information correct, just an example of their sheer incomptency. The only way you can change the info is by speaking to someone at the airport - that would all be okay but NOBODY ANSWERS THE PHONE!!!!!
What an absolute shambles!!!! Will never ever fly with Air France again, their service is the shoddiest I have ever encountered, they are a complete disgrace. I have flown with countless budget airlines, BA, Qantas etc, never had any problems but AIR FRANCE are USELESS.
Oh and did I mention an Air France flight from Rio to Paris disappeared in 2009 killing all its passengers and staff? Great looking forward to that flight back!!!! NOT!!!!!
If I can be of any help to make sure anyone else doesn't suffer the same as us please take my advise and NEVER fly with Air France. EVER!!!!
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Ben There on 01/02/2011:
The crash of Air France flight 447 has nothing to do with your issue. In fact, that issue was linked back to European plane maker Airbus.
jktshff1 on 01/02/2011:
"Oh and did I mention an Air France flight from Rio to Paris disappeared in 2009 killing all its passengers and staff?" That statement was uncalled for and has no bearing on your situation.
momsey on 01/02/2011:
Your situation is really horrible, but throwing in the comment about the plane crash really took away from your review.
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The whole story of how Air France Avoids Finding your bags
Posted by
ROISSY CDG CEDEX -- January 7, 2010
To: President Delta Airlines Richard Anderson
VP Baggage Delta Airlines
Chairman Air France Jean-Cyril Spinetta
VP Baggage Air France
Wall Street Journal
Frequent Flyer Magazine
First Class Flyer Newsletter
` US Department of Transportation
Re: Serial Baggage Failures and Lack of Response by Air France and CDGAF34188
Grab a coke or a cup of coffee because this is a long message.
A little background: We are both Platinum on NWA or Delta as it is now. Some of these events took place from NWA flights but in all instances Air France (AF) was responsible for baggage handling and tracking. Our only 2 grandchildren live in the small village of Breux Jouy, south of Paris about 45 minutes out; we go to see them 2 or 3 times a year; we have been to France 43 times, always either on NWA, Delta, or when they were partners, Continental. Ben has over 1.7 million body in the seat miles and Jean has 1.1 Million Miler miles, we are exactly the kind of customer you want and want to keep, yet we have been constantly abused by Air France and their incompetent baggage handling and the fact that neither NWA or Delta can help us.
Here is the story but this is not all the times AF has lost our bags:
Sept. 2, 2008 bag lost at CDG from flight Memphis-Amsterdam-Parisâ¦numerous calls finally on 3rd bag is âout for delivery todayâ waited up till 12 A.M. but no luck.
Sept. 3, 2008 Called AF againâ¦should be tomorrow.
Sept. 4, 2008 Called AF againâ¦should be tomorrow.
Sept. 5, 2008 Bag came at noon. Only 3 days lost.
But all of these calls involved numerous calls to the number we are givenâ¦and on hold for 10 to 13 minutes and then disconnected. Probably spent 5 or more hours trying to find this bag. Oh well we should not have planned on doing anything else but calling AF.
Dec. 17-18, 2008 Memphis-Detroit-Paris
Jeanâs bag did not arrive; took 1 ½ hours to do the paperwork
Dec. 19, 2008 AF canât find bag and the Paris NWA number simply doesnât answer; spent all day trying to get Jeanâs bag, but no one knows where it is; NWA says it is in CDG and AF says âhave not been notifiedâ this phrase will occur over and over again; No one can help and no one is responsible, really frustrating.
Sat. Dec. 20, 2008 no help on bag; AF wants us to fill out a form of the contents; NWA no help; called all afternoon and NWA says bag is at CDG, but no one is responsible to do anything.
Sunday December 21, 2008 message on James Wardâs phone (number we leave for AF to call); spent 1 hour on hold and 4 times disconnected but finally got someone who says delivery today or tomorrow. Had my daughter in law Chantana Ward call the delivery service and speak to them in French; they say delivery will be Monday between 8 and 1.
Monday December 22, 2008 bag comes at 11 A.M. The only thing that works for AF is the delivery service they use.
So in summary we spent 4 days of our limited time trying to get Jeanâs clothes and a few Christmas presents that were in her bag. We leave for Memphis early on Dec. 23rd and got the bag on the 22nd.
June 3-4 2009 Memphis-Minneapolis-Paris terrible service on NWA; but miracle all the bags arrived. Took 25 hours to get home on June 15th, partly because NWA did not put enough fuel in plane to avoid weather in Memphis areaâ¦donât they have weather radar?
December 18-19, 2009 MEM-AMS-CDGâ¦NW# 256/KL #1233 missed; AF 1741
Well, the pilots did not arrive early as they should to check out the plane, so when they did check it out there was a maintenance problem; so plane left late, no tail wind, so arrived in AMS late and we could not make our connection on KLM.
So they put us on Air France (oh, no!) with a 3 hour layover. Did you know that the AF lounge does not honor Delta Sky Club cards except for 1 person?? Bet you did not know thatâ¦and even though you came in business class they donât careâ¦but nice lady let us in the lounge anyway. Always carry your platinum card with you when dealing with Air France.
Arrived at CDG at 4 on Sat. Dec. 19th instead of 11:45. No bags. Checked 4 one full of toys and games for grandchildren. Long line at baggage office finally got forms filled out. File CDGAF34188.
Sunday Dec. 20, 2009 begin the telephone route 5 times; on hold 10 to 13 minutes and then disconnect. Website is a joke. It has no information and you cannot even alter or add to the information they have for your profile even though there is a button for âupdate informationâ. Finally get someone who says 2 bags are at CDG. We had told them to hold the bags there and we would come get them as it usually takes 1 to 2 days for the delivery service to schedule the bags to Breux Jouy the little village where we are. So, thinking the bags are there we go back to CDG and wait in long lines to get a permit to enter the baggage area and then the line at baggage service office (2 hours) and no the bags are not there as they have not been ânotifiedâ (there is that phrase again).
Monday December 21, 2009. No info on bags early (called 4 times and disconnected AF takes no calls before 9 a. m.and finally get someone) website still says âsearching for bagsâ; The situation is this: silver bag found; black and brown âno confirmationâ; blue (Jeanâs clothes) still searching. A call that they have found one and will deliver 6-10 pm and it comes at 9 pm.
Tuesday December 22, 2009. Five calls and disconnects before one connection. but finally get someone who says all bags will be cleared by tonight; website has no new info and on the bag that has been delivered there is still a comment âout for deliveryâ they donât record when it is delivered, because guess what âthey donât careâ. Call at 8 pm and no information. We post a comment about âhow Air France handles lost luggage on My3cents.com.
Wednesday December 23, 2009. Four calls and disconnects. At 10 A.M. get a representative and she goes over same words as all the other times and cannot tell me what is happening with bags and there is no supervisor. I ask when bags will be delivered and she says âwhen they are confirmedâ we go round and round over fact that they donât know anything about where bags are or where the blue bag is on the planet. She says âI am tired of this conversationâ and hangs up! Call later in day and representative says will send message to CDG to confirm the two bags so they can be sent out. Disconnected only twice. About 6 pm call the Platinum line (full fare international rate toll call) at NWA to see if they can do anything. They send an e-mail to MEM, MSP, ATL, CDG, DET asking if anyone has any personal contact at CDG that could help us. No answer. James Ward files a e-mail with Air France reference number 4127126001.
Thursday December 24, 2009; 11 A.M. âwe know nothing about whether the bags are at CDG or notâ the same as last 4 days; now they want a description of the contents of the blue bag; we have the form but they want it FAXED to themâ¦not e mail, no they donât have that just a fax. Wow this is the dark ages. Then representative says âsorry I canât hear youâ and hangs up. They have more ways to avoid doing anything that you can count.
December 25, 2009; no calls to AF today and website still same.
December 26, 2009. usual disconnects; representative says no news and we can do nothing. NWA Platinum line says we canât help you call Air France. What a great way to treat a regular customer.
December 27, 2009. Website says brown bag out for delivery and it comes at 2 pm; website at noon says another bag out for delivery and will be picked up today at 3:30 P.M. We emphasize that we have to have the bag today as we are leaving tomorrow. Bag comes in the P.M. (Jeanâs clothes).
But wait, didnât you check 4 bags? Yes and we got three after 8 days. The black bag with the toys and games? Who knows maybe it is on its way back to Memphis, but we suspect some baggage handler gave his children some extra Christmas gifts like the Wall Street Journal article reported a week before we left. But, canât you keep checking the website? No, there is no longer an active file on CDGAF34188.
The problem is that you cannot find out anything. You are completely helpless and at the mercy of their phone and web system. I am sure there will be excuses, circumstances etc. but to have this happen over and over means there is something seriously wrong with NWA and Delta passing off the responsibility for bags to Air France and not leaving some way for us to contact either airline and get any help.
Would we ever travel on AF? No but we would not have to begin with if NWA crew had show up on time and done checks like they were supposed to and we made the KLM flight, so we have some âcircumstancesâ too.
What to do? Institute some sort of communication between the head of baggage at AF and Delta so when something like this happens we can get an explanation of what is going on instead of âwaiting for confirmationâ.
And the big question is: WHERE IS BAG 603433, BLACK ROLLER BAG FULL OF CHRISTMAS PRESENTS AND TOYS?? There is no access as of Jan. 5th 2010 to CDGAF34188 any more on the Air France website. Any ideas?
Will any of you do anything? Probably not, but a lot of people are going to read this and the summary which will be on my Facebook page and posted on My3cents.com.
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goduke on 01/07/2010:
"June 3-4 2009 Memphis-Minneapolis-Paris terrible service on NWA; but miracle all the bags arrived. Took 25 hours to get home on June 15th, partly because NWA did not put enough fuel in plane to avoid weather in Memphis area…don't they have weather radar? "
Why, yes, they do have radar, but they aren't psychic. They can't tell how bad a storm is going to be and how much it's going to intensify as it travels. Sometimes storms get a really bad really quickly (which is why you don't get a lot of warning about tornadoes sometimes), and they have to change their plans.
BTW...what does that delay have to do with Air France? Or Baggage?
Anonymous on 01/07/2010:
If I had been the employee who got this letter, it would have gone in the trash with the very first line.
If you have so much trouble then don't fly. They are not picking on you. There is no conspiracy. And how the heck can they know in advance how bad the weather is?
Anonymous on 01/07/2010:
UncleBen, I somehow don't believe that this letter made it to the desks of any of the people it was addressed to. It would have come through as unnecessarily insolent. Letters to top executives are usually screened before they reach their desks. I won't be surprised if it went the way Lady Scot said - into the bin.
If you want help on knowing how to write a letter of complaint that is intended to get results, there is a good deal of advice available on the internet.
And why pray tell did you think the Wall Street Journal would have any interest in this?
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Posted by
We flew from Manchester to Bordeaux via Paris CDG on 26th December.
I was not looking forward to the flight as we had flown with Air France in the past and both times were not pleasant experiences!
On arrival at Manchester Airport we checked in through the automated check-in terminals but then we had to queue for 1hour 30 minutes just to drop off our luggage at the self drop off desk. Half way through our wait, We were told by a member of staff that we could use the luggage drop off desk for internet check-in, so we left the queue to do so... Then later we had our doubts we weren't queueing in the right place and we checked again with the same Air France member of staff who then confirmed that we were in the wrong queue - despite telling us that we could use that lane moments earlier! So we had to rejoin the original queue. At the baggage dropoff there were 2 members of desk staff for 3 planes full of passengers, as our queue was for KLM / Air France to 3 destinations. Beyond the desk staff, there was no one in charge to direct the 100s of queuing passengers or answer questions.
On board the plane from Manchester to Paris, we were offered a Muffin and a drink. No other food was available. The second Flight from Paris to Bordeaux was similar.
For a flight using a "premier airline" of ã278 per person this is not acceptable !
We arrived in Bordeaux at 11.40am on 26th Dec to find that one suitcase was still in Paris and the other was lost. We were told that once the lost case had been located it would be delivered to our destination address along with the delayed case.
Later that day (26th) we awaited a phone call to update us... And waited...and waited. NOTHING
Today is the 27th and we had to phone them this morning to find out why we had still not received the delayed bag and to see if they had located the lost one. The woman said that there was good news ! and promptly told my wife that one bag was delayed but found and the other was still lost ??? "I know that this is the situation already" said my wife. "Oh ?" said the Air France woman. "Will the located bag be delivered today ?" "No, Tomorrow" was the reply...The delayed suitcase is set to be delivered on the 28th Dec in the morning (some 48hrs late) We have had to buy underwear, a replacement shaver, and personal hygene products and are still wearing the same clothes as we flew in ! Air France have said that we are entitled to â¬100 per person for necessary items which we thought was generous initially, but we soon found out that we quickly reached that amount by only buying essential items to make it to the next day (contact lense solution is â¬13). Also we have spent our own money so far and have yet to have the claim approved / verified, so it could be a long wait.
The other case is still lost and it contains(ed) Christmas Presents for our friends and family in France who we only see twice a year. The lost case also contained my wife's brand new trainers bought for her as a Christmas present from me All my Wife's makeup and clothes, most of the clothes were new and received as presents for Christmas!
We normally fly with BMI Baby and get excellent service and have never had cause to complain in over 11 flights to France.
We have travelled for Bordeaux with Air France on 2 previous occasions and they have:
Delayed our flights for 10 hours on one return flight
Delayed for 5 hours on another
Been rude and unhelpful during delays.
Proved more expensive than other airlines (â¬250-280 a return flight versus â¬100 max with Bmibaby or Ryanair)
Never provided proper food or the option to purchase food onboard.
Overall, I would never ever fly with Air France if given the choice, but unfortunately, they are the only option to visit our family in Bordeaux at Christmas time, as the other BETTER airlines do not fly at this time of year.
When My Wife announced that she had booked with Air France, I felt a sense of foreboding which has now proved to be fully justified.
AIR FRANCE ARE POORLY ORGANISED, INEFFICIENT, RUDE and DON'T CO-OPERATE PROPERLY WHEN PROBLEMS ARISE.
Received our delayed bag on 28th as expected.
We checked the AF site online today (30th) and found that our lost bag had been found but we never got a call to tell us ?
We called Air France and they said that Air France apparently phoned us this morning ????? at 8.50 am ??? We got no missed calls on either of our mobiles and the house phone DID NOT ring. This morning as there were 3 of us in the house. They were clearly lying.
We fly home to the UK tomorrow 31st Dec (with Air France) and they asked to deliver the case to our French location tomorrow at 8pm... But we fly home at 4 pm we said. The man on the phone was extremely arrogant (no surprise there, being French and working for AF !) and said that it was our fault for not answering "the call" this morning ! - repeatedly calling my Wife (who is french and not arrogant) Madam but in a "I am in control of the situation and you are nothing" kind of way.
After much gabbling, they informed us that they are going to deliver it tonight... 30th Dec at 8pm... We hope...and wait for a confirmation call but its been 1/2 an hour already and nothing !!!
Well Surprise Surprise.... Its Almost 10 pm 30th Dec and No luggage has arrived. No Phone call. No Contact whatsoever. I emailed the customer service department 3 days ago and they have not replied to me either.
We Fly home tomorrow with one case and then need to fly out to Italy 2 days later... When are we going to see our missing suitcase again ?
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Buyer beware
Posted by
My story from the beginning:
My partner and I are attending a much anticipated lecture in London on the 25th July, and we were looking on-line for the best flight offers on Saturday the 4th of July 2009. We came across the city jet website and saw that we could get return flights from Dublin to London City airport for €119.70 per person return. We entered in all the details to book for 2 of us, and entered our credit card details and went on to confirm the booking. However, it was denied as we had insufficient funds on our credit card. A message came up on the screen saying that the transaction was not authorised. We had obviously thought that we had enough money on the card, but when we later checked our on-line banking, we were a couple of euro short. This, you would think would be the end of it, but sadly no.
On Monday, we went to the bank to lodge more money onto our credit card so that we could pay for the flights. We assumed that it would take a day or two for the money to be on the credit card, but just on the off chance that this transaction processed more quickly than the "anything up to 3 working days" we had been told by the bank. It was then that we discovered the money missing from the credit card. We were quite shocked as we initially thought that perhaps our credit card had been skimmed or was being used fraudulently in some way. It was around 4.00pm so we thought we better get on to the bank right away before they closed to see what was going on. We were told that the money was being held pending authorisation by 'AIR FRANCE'. They had requested from our bank the price of a ticket for 1 person for some reason, even though when we attempted to book flights for '2' people we were told that the transaction was denied due to insufficient funds. This I thought was crazy – how is it legal for a company to 'hold' money on your credit card without your knowledge?? We were unable to access this money, OUR money until Air France declined their initial request to take it. We immediately checked our e-mails to see if in fact, our flight booking had gone through without our knowledge, but there was nothing. No confirmation of flights, no mention of 'provisionally' holding seats for us, no booking contract, and no mention of why they were holding money on our credit card – NOTHING!!! I have worked in the hospitality industry for 13 years, and I understand the procedure of pre-authorising credit cards on a guest's arrival, but you HAVE to tell the guest what you are doing. Otherwise, you are using their credit card without their knowledge, which is definitely unethical, not best business practice and I imagine illegal.
I called the customer services number for Air France and was told to call their reservations line. After a while explaining the situation to a girl in customer services, she searched for our flight booking. I kept trying to tell her that we had no booking as we were told that the request for the flights was denied on-line, but low and behold, there were 2 seats 'provisionally' reserved for us. I inquired as to how this could be, and as to how the money was holding on our credit card, and she really couldn't give me any answers. She said that she couldn't confirm the bookings as no payment was made for the seats. I explained that as Air France were 'holding' this money on our credit card we were now stuck as we had no money on the card to book with another airline. She said that the seats were being held provisionally for me, and that there was nothing else she could do until she spoke to her supervisor. I inquired as to the price of these 'provisional' seats and I was told that she could give me one seat at the original price of €119.70 but that the other one would be at the new higher price of €169.00. I told her that this was outrageous, as if she was holding seats for us, and holding money on our credit card, then why could I not confirm the booking at the original price. Then, all of a sudden, during the course of our conversation the cheaper seat had been sold so now both seats were €169.00 per person. I just don't understand that if they are holding seats for me (without my knowledge), how can they all of a sudden be bought by someone else!! She said that because she was working for Air France she could not alter the prices for city jet flights. I asked to speak to a manager who was 'in a meeting' and she told me that she would get the manager to call me back the following morning. She said that there was nothing more that she could do at this stage. I thought to myself that this was outrageous and I was so angry as Air France were holding us to ransom by continuing to hold the money on our credit card.
As it was after 5pm, there was nobody else we could get through to. The more I thought about it, the angrier I was getting. HOW CAN THIS BE LEGAL!!! We decided to call the 24 hour lost/stolen credit card line for our bank. They gave us some advice, and said that in 'no way' should a reputable company hold money on peoples credit cards like this. They didn't know the exact legalities of the situation, but when we asked could they just cancel the charge they said that Air France has to reject the amount which they were holding. So we were stuck.
The next morning, we contacted our bank again; just to verify all of the information we had been told. They gave us the transaction number so that Air France could follow this up. They said that this transaction number meant that Air France had requested the amount of €119.70 was made available to them to take from our credit card. Our bank had accepted this request, and so, the transaction number was created.
I called Air France back at about 9.30am as I was tired of waiting for them to call me back. I understand that €119.70 might not seem like a big deal to them, but it certainly was to me. And more over, the fact that they held the money on my credit card in the first place, without my authorisation – HOW CAN THEY DO THIS???
I spoke to a man in customer services and explained the situation again as he did not know who the lady I was originally speaking to was. He looked up the details on our 'provisional' booking and the proceeded to put me on hold for 10 minutes while he spoke to his manager. I couldn't speak to the manager as he was 'going into a meeting'. I told him that this was unacceptable and that I wanted to know what was going on. At this point, I was still willing to accept the 2 flights at the original price, but not for long. I asked him how it was legal to hold money on people's credit cards without their knowledge, and he said that when you enter your credit card details in the on-line booking form, you are consenting for the company to charge your card. I am not a complete idiot, so I do get this concept, but what I don't get is why they held money on our credit card firstly for flights for 1 person when we had tried to book for 2 people together and secondly without informing me that they were doing so. I had checked all of the policies on their website and nowhere did it say that they would do this.
Again I was fobbed off that he was going to get his manager to contact City Jet after his 'meeting' and he would call me back later that day.
My frustration was now bubbling over into rage and I thought that I am just going to cancel the whole lot and get Air France to release MY money that they were holding without my consent.
I called back and asked to speak to the same man again so that I didn't have explain the whole ordeal a third time. I was not permitted to speak to him, so I had to speak to another lady who was less than accommodating. I explained the entire ordeal AGAIN and I told her that I wanted her to cancel whatever provisional booking she had in for me and my partner and to release the money they were holding. She said that she could not release the money as they had not charged our credit card. I explained that I was well aware that they had not charged our card, but that Air France was 'holding' this money and we were unable to access it, so they should release the 'hold'. During the course of our hour long conversation, I asked her several times to contact whatever bank they used and give them the transaction code and release the money, which she eventually did after approximately 50 minutes. She attempted to tell me that she would cancel the flights for me, which she would normally not do as I had made a contract with City Jet. Obviously, these flights had been booked for me, without my knowledge. Had I not found out when I did – would City Jet have told me or would they have waited until they flight had gone and charged me anyway as I didn't cancel??? How could there be a contract when one party has told the other that the transaction was DENIED!!! I then read to her the details of the 'Liability' section in the 'legal' section on there website, which goes as follows:
A binding contract in relation to a ticket is not formed until Cityjet accepts a customer's offer to buy a ticket. An offer will be deemed to have been accepted by Cityjet once the customer is in receipt of a booking confirmation. Prices are subject to change at any time before acceptance by Cityjet. All flights and products are offered subject to availability. Notwithstanding the foregoing, in the event of a genuine Web site error or inaccuracy, Cityjet reserves the right to withdraw an offer immediately and without notice. Cityjet reserves the right to cancel all confirmed bookings that are subject to genuine Web site error or inaccuracy. In the event of such cancellation Cityjet's only liability shall be to refund the ticket price paid by You. You agree that this is fair and reasonable in the circumstances and your continued use of the Web site indicates your agreement with this specific provision.
I took exception to the following part: "An offer will be deemed to have been accepted by Cityjet once the customer is in receipt of a booking confirmation." I read this to the customer services agent, and yet she still tried to insist that I had a contract with City Jet, even though this directly contradicts the liability section of their website. I asked her to explain how I had a contract as the above terms as stated in the 'liability' section on City Jets website were not met – she had no answer for me. I asked again for her to explain to me exactly how I had a contract with City Jet considering they had not taken the amount of money initially requested by them, before declining the transaction, but they took and held the price of a ticket for 1 person only. Surely if we were to have a contract, City Jet would have just broken it. I told her that a contract had to be agreed by both parties, and I told her that if she wished to go down a legal route, I would be more than happy to do so, as there is absolutely no contract, nor was there ever and she could not prove anything; and she continued on to change the subject. Again, had I not discovered this request for payment made by Air France to my bank, I would be none the wiser – there was no contract! I explained this to the customer services agent, at which point she implied that I was lying as she said several times 'I just don't understand why we would hold the money on your card', and yet she refused to get in touch with her bank until the end of my conversation with her. I explained several times that my bank had given me a transaction code, which proved that her bank were holding funds from my credit card. During the course of the conversation, I asked her several times to just contact her bank, as she was talking over me and was becoming quite rude. Up to this point she refused to acknowledge that Air France were holding my money. She insisted that it was my bank. I again re-iterated my request that she please check with her bank instead of arguing with me as I had now checked this 4 times with my bank, who gave me the transaction code which proved that Air France were holding my money. I repeatedly asked to speak to a manager but I could not as the manager 'would not help me' (her words, which she quickly retracted and said 'could not help me) and guess what – the manager was just going into a meeting! She insisted on talking over me and continued telling me that my bank had to cancel the transaction. My partner got on the phone to our bank while I was on the phone to the girl from Air France and told them what she said – they said again that as the request was made by Air France, that Air France had to cancel the request. There are a limited number of days that a company can continue holding money on your card without accepting or denying a payment and eventually the money would be returned to you, but this was not acceptable to me as I still required this money to book flights. All Air France had to do was ring their bank and cancel the transaction and it would happen immediately, as we were told by our bank.
I kept asking her to please just contact her bank with our transaction number and they could chase it up, but she wouldn't do this. She kept implying that there was no way they would just hold money on someone's credit card without their knowledge. When I said that I could 100% prove to her that Air France was holding money on my card, and that they couldn't go around holding money on credit cards without their own bank being aware of this. Surely their bank HAD to have some record of it. Eventually she conceded and said she would call the bank and check. I later got a call from her supervisor, and she told me that the bank did indeed find the transaction and they would release the 'holding' money. Maybe its just me, but personally I do not see the need for a 1 hour long conversation whereby it is implied that I was lying or that my bank was making it up, when a simple phone call which took a matter of minutes to Air Frances bank with the transaction number I provided would have shown that I was not making this up. This supervisor told me that she had been filled in about our case, and yet when I asked her how is it legal for Air France to do this to me; she didn't seem to know what I was talking about. I just didn't have it in me to go through the entire episode again, so I left it at that – they were indeed holding money on our credit card, without our prior consent, or a lawful 2 party contract and they would release the funds back to their rightful owner – ME!
What I can gather is that Air France take your credit card details when you try to book on-line, hold money on your credit card for your 'provisional' bookings which you are sent no notification or confirmation for, and then charge you for either canceling your flight when you eventually realize what is going on, or charge you for not turning up for your flight!!! I really think that it is absolutely outrageous and had I not noticed what they I had done, I would have been out of pocket €119.70. I received no real explanation – I was told that it was 'technical' and they probably wouldn't be able to explain it to me, while the 2nd lady I spoke to was implying that I simply must have concocted the whole ordeal in my head as she couldn't possibly just pick up the phone and call her bank. We have received no apology for this. Had it been the other way round and I had taken something from Air France without their prior consent, no doubt the boys in blue would be knocking on my door but it doesn't work that way for the average Joe. I believe that us average Joe's have to look out for each other, especially these days when money is scarce, so please be careful out there – even companies that you may think are reputable are not too slow when it comes to scamming us.
I wonder is this accepted business practice by Air France?
I wonder would Air France have eventually contacted me to let me know they were holding money on my credit card?
I wonder do Air France normally book provisional seats without a method of payment?
I wonder would Air France have eventually charged my card without my knowledge, and later told me that I missed my flight when I inquired as to where my money had gone?
I wonder why every time I asked to speak to a manager, my request was denied and I was told that they were in meetings?
I wonder why it took 4 phone calls to different people at Air France before they eventually picked up the phone to check with their bank, instead of implying that I was a liar?
I wonder that if the same situation were to arise in a different scenario, say a shop and I hand over money to the shopkeeper to pay for goods. He declines to sell me anything, but holds on to my money and tells me that he will decide in a few days if he will accept and sell me the goods after all – would this be theft?
I don't know if Air France have broken any laws – most probably not, but the question I think people need to ask themselves is: are Air France's business practices ethical, moral and honest?
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Christina G. (firstname.lastname@example.com) on 05/23/2012:
Air France is horrid. Unfortunately, so are ALL the airlines in my experience.
Want to hear something worse? I went to check in for my flight an hour and a half before (from Casablanca to Paris) and found there was NO one there at the desk... they had left to board the flight. There were even two other people behind us confused as to why there were no check-in agents.
It said clearly on my itinerary that we only needed to be there an hour and 15 minutes before boarding to check in, but they didn't care when I showed this too them. I had to book ANOTHER round trip ticket to France, and the price was DOUBLE what I had paid on my initial ticket. To make matters worse, they just "rebooked" the other people behind us. WHY? Because they were business class, and they accommodate them.
I filed a complaint to no avail. "You should be there 2 hours before your flight, no matter what your email/ticket from Air France said."
Is there any way I can legally sue them? Seriously. How can you give someone a legal document and then not honor it???
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Treatment of passengers
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Here is a copy of the letter I wrote, it explains the story very well.
To whom it may concern at Air France.
I have to tell you this gruesome tale, and let you decide for yourself, what needs to be done.
Here is my story:
My mother and I came off a ship in Monaco.
I left the ship early to take a plane from Nice to Paris to meet my daughter and some other people for a school trip, my mother an 80 year old woman, was on a later bus, to nice airport, to meet her 4:20 flight to Paris with a connection on flight 8 to new York. When she boarded her flight to Paris she was not told that her connecting flight was cancelled. She was just told there were some problems. Her plane was delayed, but we were told that the flight to New York was going. There were only two cancelled flights on the board.
Anyway, I leave nice to meet my young daughter at orly airport, and when I arrive at orly, I find out that a lot of the flights have been cancelled.
I change terminals and go to Air France terminal to inquire about my elderly mother.
They tell me that they are not sure what is going on. The plane has been checked in.
I ask them to tell me if my mother is on the flight, they say that they cannot find her name on the flight manifest. I then ask to be told where she is; they say they do not know. I say this is not acceptable, and that the woman cannot be just ignored. Due to her age and feeble condition, I need to know where she is. She is not well, and cannot just be left at an airport alone and frightened- or just sent to a hotel without help.
I need to know where she is. She will need my help.
All I get is I am sorry Madame, there is a strike, you know, and we are very busy.
I said that I understood this problem, but we are talking about an 80 year old woman in a wheel chair!!! No one comes to my aid. And I am starting to panic. I start making calls to orly airport to see what has happened to her. My cell phone bill will be enormous.
Finally, I put up a fuss. And once again, I am told, I am sorry Madame; your mother is not on the flight. Again I scream, so where is she. Finally I demand to speak to someone in charge, and a lovely lady comes to my aid, and tells me to wait, and she will try to help me find my mother. After about 50 minutes she comes back to me and tells me that she tracked the wheel chair and my mother is on the plane. But the plane comes in to Charles de Gaulle airport, and I need to get there. So I race with my daughter, another teacher and student, because we are with a group and do not want to separate in a foreign country that we donât speak the language. Now due to this problem we have missed our connection with our tour.
Okay, we all race to the other airport, to find that the plane is delayed. We wait and we wait. By this time, I know that the flight to New York is cancelled, but my mother does not know this. I try to get some information to help my mother get on another flight, and try to explain to the people, that she is not in a good condition and needs to be rerouted as soon as possible, because I donât know how much medication she has.
The people at the counter turn their heads away from me as if I donât exist,
They say, Madame there are other people who need attention. And I say, yes I understand this, but I have a bit of a problem the woman is very elderly and when she arrives she will be extremely tired, and I need to find her a place to sleep or re route her immediately, no one listens to me, I start to get agitated and get a bit loud because 18 year old able bodied young people are getting rooms and I donât know what to do for an 80 year old woman coming in.
Finally I demand to see someone in charge, and someone comes to me, and asks me for my mothers name and flight, and he checks the computer, and then tells me that my mother is not on the flight, so I ask him where my mother is, have they put her in a hotel, or have they rerouted her, the answer I get, madam your mother is lost, I am sorry, we have no record of her, or where she is. I start to cry, and tell them this is just not acceptable to me, and that they canât just lose a woman in a wheel chair.
The answer is, Madame we are sorry, but there is a strike. I lose it, and say, I understand there is a strike, but where is my mother.
The answer is Madame, we are sorry.
By this time I am nuts as you can imagine. I have been stressed for hours now, I go downstairs to tell the children and the teacher, that I think they should at least go to the hotel, they have now been waiting for 6 hours with me, and they have lost their tours and their evening meal that had been prepaid. They donât want to leave until; they know what happened to my mother.
Now the flight comes in, and I see a woman from the ship I was on, in the baggage area.
I ask her if she has seen my mother. And she says yes, she gets a piece of paper and starts to communicate with me on paper through the glass window, because we cannot hear one another. She writes to me that they took my mother away in a bus to meet a plane. A plane to where I ask, she says I donât know, I run upstairs once more and start to ask for help, and I am ignored completely, I start to talk loudly, so someone will listen to me, and the girls at the desk just ignore me. And turn their heads away. Finally I demand the attention of the closest woman, to get someone for me to talk to, and finally someone comes out.
They tell me that my mother was not on the plane, I tell them yes she was and she was taken away by a bus, well , the gentleman said, I have no idea where she is, I am afraid she is lost in this strike, I get very upset, and start to cry again, if she drops dead in the airport, what will you do , I say, then will you say, I am sorry Madame, it is due to the strike~!!!!! I demand to know where they have taken her. After about a half an hour they come back to me and tell me that my mother will be found in the baggage area. No apologies, no nothing, I have been told my mother was not on the plane, I have been told that my mother was taken away by a bus, I have been told that my mother is lost, I am a total nervous wreck.
I run downstairs and tell my party that my mother is here in the baggage claim.
We wait for her to come out with the lady who is steering the wheelchair. My mother starts to cry , she is so happy that I am at the airport, she was frightened, because she didnât know how she was going to get back to New York.
We go upstairs to get her a hotel, and a rerouting of her flight. No one pays any attention to us. We wait about an hour, and no one bothers to turn a head in our direction. The lady in attendance with the wheel chair tries to help, but they ignore her, she calls her supervisor. I go downstairs and beg my party to please go to the hotel, they now have been waiting 8 hours, and the kids are so tired and hungry. The driver who has been waiting for us has come back to the airport for the 3rd time to take us. But I beg him to please come back again for me and my mom after taking my group to our Paris hotel.
We continue to wait and wait and wait, I keep saying to the people behind the desk, please, canât you see that this woman needs help, she needs to sleep, she needs her medicine, and she needs to eat. No response from anyone. She is starting to slump in the wheelchair, a sure sign that the stress is getting to her, she is exhausted, and has been jumbled around for the last 6 hours. (Not counting the fact that she woke up early and has been up all day, )
We are talking from the time she was supposed to board in nice to now)
After another hour or so, of waiting, a young man with the wheel chair assistance comes, he says he will try to help us, we wait and we wait,
He comes back and says there are not hotels to put her in. and there are no flights.
I ask to speak to his co worker, who tells me the same thing. I beg someone to bring her some water because the cafes have all closed down, amidst all this chaos, the cafes close and passengers have no access to food or water. My mother is really starting to get upset and worried. Finally a gentleman comes out and tells me that they donât have hotels. And I ask if I can find one on my own for her, because she cannot stay at the airport or at an airport hotel now on her own in this condition, and she needs my help, he says of course, but there are no hotels to be found, but if you find one air France will cover the bill. I contact the hotel I am staying at, and there are no rooms, again, my cell phone is in use, you must understand that my cell phone is from Greece and all these phone calls are long distance.
Okay, I continue to call her travel agent, in America, to ask for advice. And am told not to leave the airport until they give her a confirmed flight home.
We wait, the agent from America calls me again and again, and of course my cell is charged.
Anyway, we continue to wait, I continue to call everywhere trying to find a room
From the corner of my eye, I see a bag from the same group that we were with, on the floor; I look up and see a very elderly woman, slumped over in a chair. This woman has been sitting in the chair with no assistance for 4 hours. The person at the desk told her to wait, so this 87 year old woman did what she was told to do, and was sitting waiting for 4 hours. I find this incredible. She is beside herself and doesnât know what to do, she has a broken arm, and is so tired but she was told to wait, that there were no rooms to be had, and they would get back to her, but she was forgotten. Forgotten for 4 hours!!!!! Anyway, I got her information, and told her that I would not leave her.
She, like my mother, practically cry with relief, that someone is helping them.
I am now very angry!!! I am very stressed,I have 2 woman now that need help!!! And really need help! And I have had the run a round now for 12 hours and I was exhausted. Plus, I was worried about my own daughter who I had to send to the hotel without me.
I now bang on the door of the office and demand a little respect, for these two people, they are tired and hungry. I am given a tray of food for them. And am told to wait. Just as I think that we are getting somewhere, the police rush in and clear the area, unclaimed luggage has been left on the floor and they clear the area, with that all the people inside the office disappear, and we have to wait some more until the scare is over.
it is now after 1 am . Two women in their 80s exhausted- in transit, and no place to go. Shameful!!!!!
Finally I find a room in Paris, they tell me that the room has reserved by someone else but they havenât shown up, and if in an hour or so they donât come, we can have the room. I tell them we will take it. And I tell the other woman, that I will take care of her and not to worry.I will give her my room , and I will sleep in a single bed with my daughter.
Finally, the gentleman who was trying to help us, comes out with a re route for Tuesday on Continental Airlines. He says that he was not able to secure anything else and that the ladies would be stuck for 3 nights. But that air France would pick up the expenses, just to keep the records. Hurray, the nightmare is about to end.
Now if this whole story isnât bad enough,
My trip and my daughterâs trip are ruined. I cannot possibly attend a trip when I have taken 2 women under my care. So my holiday is ruined due to your strike.
But I had a duty to make sure these woman were taken care of, because they were in trouble.
Well, what happens next is again terrible.
I get them to the airport on Tuesday, and they are denied boarding once again. Continental will not accept the air France re route. This is disgusting. After all that these women have gone through, they still have to go through more red tape. They are denied boarding, and have to be now re routed again with air France. Wait another few hours at the airport for the new flight.
Finally these ladies arrive in New York!!! They are exhausted to say the least. Manhandled, to say the least. Disappointed, to say the least.
Compensation is in order, to say the least!!!!!!
Hotel bills are approximately 1000 euros, transportation costs are approximately 150 euros, for taxis from airport to hotel, hotel to airport, and then airport to home.
Phone bills contacting hotels, and travel agents and the airport have yet to be known,
But I am sure they will be high.
And expenses for having to eat at the restaurants. Etc.
My trip was ruined due to this situation, and I think I should be compensated as well for all the expense I incurred trying to help these woman who were totally ignored by the staff of Air France. If I hadnât taken care of them, I am sure they would have landed up in a hospital.
And most important, an apology is in order. I have never seen a situation where people were treated so poorly in my life. Surely the staff are trained to watch out and protect elderly travelers and give them some kind of priority.
Wellâ¦â¦ they forgot.
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Skye on 11/03/2007:
Why didn't someone travel with your mother?? Seems cruel to have sent her alone. The airline employees are not personal care givers and cannot monitor one passenger just because your mother was sent alone.
I didn't get past the first page. Too long, short and too the point is easier to follow.
jktshff1 on 11/03/2007:
Skye, right, why did not someone stay with your mother to look after her if she was in that bad a shape?
"you are nuts, you are demanding, you are now very angry". Take some of the responsibility for not looking after her.
YOUR FAULT...not the airlines.
Anonymous on 11/03/2007:
This story sounds nightmarish. Pickle2, it was commendable of you to take care of not one, but two, 80+ women in their definite time of need. I hope you get some compensation from the airline--and at the very least a letter of apology for the horrific way they handled this situation.
msnanny on 11/03/2007:
I was thinking the same thing. If you knew she was unable to care for herself, why in the world would you allow her to travel alone???
killerklown on 11/03/2007:
You want someone to blame for this? Go find a mirror.
firengine103 on 11/03/2007:
No wonder French hate Americans, thanks a lot!
Anonymous on 11/03/2007:
I would never let my 80 year old mother who needs special assistance and requires a wheel chair to travel alone. It just wouldn't happen.
yoke on 11/04/2007:
Do airlines have the same deal with families for seniors flying "un"accompanied like they do children? If not maybe it is something they may want to look into offering. There are a lot of elderly flying alone and it sounds like the families expect the airlines to get them from point A to point B without having to pay an extra cost.
Anonymous on 11/04/2007:
Air France is a bad airline because it is run by the French. I hate France!
Ben There on 11/04/2007:
Why didn't you fly on the same plane as your mother from Nice to Paris? Was it cheaper to fly to Orly so you saved a couple bucks at the expense of your mother's safety?
Anonymous on 11/04/2007:
Viva la Lidman!!!
Anonymous on 11/04/2007:
Viva La Superbowl.. back at ya man!
Ponie on 11/04/2007:
When does the movie come out?
familytravel on 11/04/2007:
This does sound awful, and I commend you for taking care of another elderly person in need. However, you really should have had a companion to travel along with your mother. It clearly states on airline websites that the flight attendants, check-in agents, and other airline employees are NOT person caregivers. They can assist with wheel chair assistance, etc., but that's about it. If your mother is in a poor state of health and physical condition, then why on earth did you put her on a plane alone? Next time, you must get some kind of a caregiver to accompany her on the trip.
Nohandle on 11/04/2007:
Familytravel this is the first time I've heard: It clearly states on airline websites that the flight attendants, check-in agents, and other airline employees are NOT person caregivers. I've not ever had to look into airtravel for an elderly family member but it's good information for others. Sometimes even those direct flights end up being a nightmare.
pickle2 on 11/04/2007:
I guess I didn't mention, that my mother was in a group
and with people who were taking care of her but
they all got separated by the airline.
and to take offence at why she was traveling alone,I had made arrangements for her to be taken care of- I paid for extra assistance, but they couldn't do anything , just wait with her.
I don't live in America, that is why I wasn't traveling with her.
pickle2 on 11/04/2007:
I understand where all of you are coming from
but you are missing the point. she had someone there to be with her, she had companions to travel with her. but there was no place to travel to, there was no one to help them, they were just left to wait, and wait and wait. the aide was helpless, the aide couldn't get them re routed, or a hotel, . what I am saying, is like an unaccompanied child
an elderly traveler needs to be taken care of. we pay extra for the service. and they deserve extra attention. and just because there is a strike, they shouldn't be ignored .
voiceoff on 11/06/2007:
Things can and do go wrong with passengers on a plane or vacation. I am sorry but the risk facor is always there when making multiple changes to several countries, and that risk was naively unknowingly assumed by you. Let mom take less strenuous vacations more for her age, with an aid at all times who would, if necessary, be able to handle what may come. The assistant must only be given situations she would be able to handle.
There is no monetary compensation for fear you went through , but get reimbursementt that you can verify with bills.
leopard on 11/06/2007:
although I hate everything to do with france and the french, you have no one to blame but yourself. if your mother is so frail, why on earth did you let her travel alone. no airline is a baby sitting service. they are not responsible for adult travelers. you are the irresponsible one here.
Andres Juan Gigante on 07/03/2013:
Air France is the world's worst airline. Talk with your wallet and never fly them.
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Lost luggage
Posted by
119, AVENUE DES CHAMPS-ÉLYSéES -- I flew to Barcelona via Paris CDG on the 25 Dec 2010, my suitcase never made it to Barcelona. I reported and received a PIR (BCNAF55355) and was informed that it would be delivered to my destination by 1300hrs on the 26 Dec 2010. It never arrived! I rang Barcelona airport on 28 Dec 2010 and they confirmed that they had the suitcase, is still did not arrive during my holiday.
I returned to Barcelona airport on the 04 Jan 2011 and spoke to the lost luggage counter. I was told that "yes, we have your case, then, no we have not got you case, yes we have, and finally, no we have not got your case!" This was within the space of LESS than 5 minutes!
I returned to the UK and over the 5 months, I have rung, faxed & emailed Air France and received NO replies! After my first call to Air France I send a fax informing Air France what was in my suitcase, to help find it.
I spoke to the Air France desk in Aberdeen airport during the week 31 Jan - 04 Feb 2011 and was informed that comments had been entered on my file, so I can only assume that they are my fax, email & phone calls for requested updates on my suitcase.
The main items, not including my everyday clothes etc, are skydiving clothing & equipment which consists of a helmet, jumpsuit, altimeter & gloves. To replace these alone will cost me about £1000.00. I had to borrow equipment in Spain, commercial DZ. Normally I would have to hire the missing items but because I am a regular jumper at the DZ, people lent me the items I required. How can you repay kindness?
I was informed on a call to an Air France baggage helpdesk number during the last 2 weeks in February 2011 that I was entitled to compensation, as Air France had not located my baggage within 3 weeks. What happened to Air France informing me when the 3 week period expired, which would mean I should have received a letter from Air France informing me of the fact that Iâm entitled to compensation BY THE END OF JANUARY 2011.
I have received a goodwill gesture of £344, took them about 3 months to receive it and recently been informed by e-mail, that they have LOST my suitcase. Big difference between £1200+ and £344!!!!!!!!!!!
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trmn8r on 06/13/2011:
I think the main problem here may be agreeing on a value for your lost goods.
Airlines compensate you the depreciated value, not the cost to replace. Thus, a $400 suit may only be reimbursed $150.
James_236 on 06/13/2011:
The European Court of Justice held in the case of Walz v Clickair SA on 6th May 2010 that the limit of compensation for lost luggage in international flights beginning or ending in the EU is 1100 euros which is about £960. You don't even have to go to Court, now that this has been established. In every EU country there is a Commission that looks after passenger complaints against airlines and you just fill out a form and file your complaint. There is no "goodwill" about £344
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Inaccurate information constantly
Posted by
The Prisoner
I am still trying to get my luggage from Air France after a week in Paris. I have heard they lost over 20,000 bags. This alone is unacceptable, but I would like to post about something more general that is clearly a huge problem with Air France's policies in my experience.
Every step of my journey has been fraught with incorrect information from Air France. They seem to have a habit of saying things that they cannot or will not actually do.
A simple example is this - I call "baggage services" and a recorded voice informs me that my wait time on hold will be 7 minutes. Not "approximately 7 minutes", mind you, it claims it will be a 7 minute wait. Following that I am on hold for over 20 minutes.
They do not seem to understand that this alone is already a deplorable way to treat a customer. If the recorded voice came back after 7 minutes and updated the time estimate, or if it simply did not tell me how long I would be waiting, that would be much better than claiming 7 minutes and then not delivering on that promise.
In general, this has been my continual experience with Air France. Another more extreme example occurred during take off from JFK to Paris. After 5 hours of delays, all of which contained this same over-promise/under-deliver characteristic, we were still waiting to take off after sitting on the plane for well over an additional 2 hours. When we finally moved away from the gate, the pilot informed us we still had to wait for the plane to be de-iced, but assured us this would take no more than 10 minutes. In fact, it took well over 30 minutes, and we continued to sit still for another 30 minutes after that with no information about when we might finally move ahead.
I could give countless other examples of this, as it seems to be acceptable to Air France to essentially lie to its customers and never to recognize or apologize for giving entirely inaccurate information during times when information is the most important thing they can give to a customer.
As I sit here now, I had been told my luggage (actually only one of my two bags) was to be delivered four hours ago. I actually spoke to the delivery person and was told this. When I finally called Air France to complain, they didn't even seem to understand why this was a problem until I explained that I am a virtual prisoner in Paris because I do not want to miss the delivery. They have not set up any system to track or contact the courier for an update on the arrival of the delivery.
(While the bag was eventually delivered, I still feel that Air France has no interest in taking proper care of paying customers.)
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Alain on 01/08/2011:
You're not alone when it comes to problems with Air France. Including this website, there are 12 sites (maybe more, but I stopped reading at 12) with multiple complaints about them.
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Lost Luggage NIGHTMARE
Posted by
1/1/2011 I have NEVER experienced the kind of customer service nightmare I am currently going through with Air France. We flew from San Francisco to Barcelona on Dec. 23 with a connection at Charles De Gaulle. Due to bad weather in Paris, our flight out of SF was delayed for 5 hours. When we reached Paris, 3 flights to Barcelona were cancelled, so our baggage was at CDG for over 5 hours. When we finally landed at Barcelona at about 11:30 pm, our luggage (and that of most others on the plane) was not there, even though they had 5 hours to transfer it from one plane to another at the same terminal. After literally dozens of phone calls to Spain, France and the US, and constant checking online, we still do not have our bags, after 7 days! They initially promised it within 24 hours, yet everyday their answer was the same: "sorry, no information". They consistently refused to answer whether the luggage had ever been scanned into CDG.
I am an insulin-dependent diabetic and did not have enough medication to last the entire trip in my small carry-on bag. I explained this to them immediately, and it was noted in the file, but they gave no extra consideration to this, even though it constituted a medical emergency for me.
This morning they reportedly found one of the three bags and it was supposedly out for delivery at 8:30 am, but it is now 11 P.M. and still no bag. They promised that it would be delivered by private courier given the medication inside, but instead I have now been told it is on a huge truck, and they refuse to provide the name of the service so that I might avoid having to waste ANOTHER entire day of my vacation waiting at my rental apartment to be sure I don't miss the driver.
I have received nothing but officious, rude service, and outright lies from nearly everyone I've dealt with at all levels of Air France -- no firm answers, no apologies, no accurate information -- just continuous delays and hours waiting on hold. NEVER AGAIN WILL I FLY THIS ROTTEN AIRLINE!
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olie on 01/01/2011:
And to think that this whole thing could have been avoided by your having a full vacation's-worth of insulin in your carry-on.
Is there no insulin in Paris? Or Barcelona?
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Sahit Muja, Election 2012: A 16 Trillion reasons not voting for Obama.
Would you hire someone with this job resume?
Growing national deficit will be $16 trillion in days, the biggest increase by a president in history.The debt for US citizen is $50,874.00. Unemployment is above 8.2% for 42 months, despite the nearly trillion dollar "stimulus".
The country has had the longest streak of +8.2% unemployment since the Depression under Obama.The unemployment was 4.6% in January 2007 when Democrat Congress took over.
Americans on food stamps have increased 42% to 46 million, that is 1 out of every 7 Americans are on food stamps.
Higher gas prices at the pump, cost of living going is up, average U.S. worker salaries going down and higher cost for heath care.
National security leaks, operation Fast and Furious. The unemployment is 8.5% or more and up in 44 states .The US credit rating downgraded for the first time in history
President Obama has fewest contacts with key members of Congress, fewest meeting with business leaders, fewest chief adviser's who have really private sector experience.
President Obama has most campaign stops, most fund raisers, most golf rounds, most vacations in U.S history.
President Obama has forced "Obamacare" down our throats despite majority of Americans were opposed to it. President has stopped the Keystone pipeline that would have created thousands of jobs .
Obama has provided half a billion tax payer's dollars to Solyndra, of which promptly turned into a failure. Obama was traveling the globe to publicly apologize for America's world leadership.
Obamas administration sold guns to drug runners used to kill our border control agents (the "Fast and Furious" scandal). Obama's administration filed lawsuit against Arizona for enforcing immigration laws.
Home foreclosures per year have increased by 34% from 850,000 to 1,140,000. Total bankruptcy filings per year have increased by 42% from 1,117,641 to 1,593,081.
The US dollar compared to gold has declined near 100%, gold was $ 815.00 ounce in Nov, 2008 to $1667 an ounce today.
Obama thrives on division and fueling hatred. Obama said he was going to bring America together, but he's built his campaign and career as president by dividing it.
This time around Mr. Obama is running as the war president. President Obama has divided the nation, engaged in class warfare, and attacked the free-enterprise. President Obama, in a speech to supporters, suggested business owners owe their success to government investment in infrastructure and other projects, saying "if you've got a business, you didn't build that" Obama has never run any business much less built it from the ground up.
According to Obama there is a war on women, war on minorities and the war on college kids, "going to put y'all back in chains"
Obama has no record to run on and I have 16 Trillion reasons why I am NOT voting for Obama.
Sahit Muja
President and CEO
Albanian Minerals
New York
So we should vote for the guy who wants to go deeper into debt via a tax cut for the rich?
In the US, spending bills originate in the House of Representatives, which is Republican controlled.
Spending bills - the budget - have to pass the House and Senate before being signed by the President.
In other words, there's enough blame to go around for both parties.
Sorry but the data point central to your entire screed is FALSE. Of the $15.9 trillion in national debt it's a raw undeniable fact that that over $7 trillion (nearly half) of the debt accumulated under the policies of that paragon of "fiscally conservatism" George W. Bush.
Moreover, of the debt that has been added during Obama's term, 3/4 of it is due to two factors Obama is not responsible for: the economic collapse that occurred under Bush's watch (which decreased revenues and increased expenditures on unemployment and the like), and the decrease in revenues from the irresponsible Bush tax cuts. Actual spending increases under Obama have been smaller than under any of the last 3 Republican presidents.
Last, the much derided stimulus package certainly cost money but by at least halting the steady hemorrhaging of jobs and helping to create more jobs in Obama's term than in Bush's two terms combined, it more than paid for itself.
Try to spin this however you like but I'd love to know what exactly the GOP House has accomplished since they ran on jobs and decreasing the debt in 2010? I'll save you time: nothing. They did pass 33 anti-abortion and family planning bills but not a single jobs bill has been implemented. Heckuva job.


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The McCarthy Residency showcases the work and skills of someone who has a distinguished career in public service, policy, or politics through a week long on-campus residency. Through visits to classes, cafeterias, practices, and public programs, the McCarthy resident engages a wide spectrum of the CSB/SJU community in addition to the general public. The McCarthy residency culminates in a dinner honoring the resident and a final keynote program open to the campus community and the public. The primary purpose of the residency is to give students extended access to someone with real knowledge and wisdom about policy, civic engagement, and public life. Past residents include:
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The Stokke® Harness provides your child with additional safety when sitting in the Tripp Trapp® children's chair.
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Elevating the Everyday with David Stark
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There are two ways to enjoy party planner and designer David Stark's new book, The Art of the Party. You can admire it as a coffee table book full of images from his show-stopping events, or treat it like a handbook for imbuing your own parties with the joie de vivre and excitement Stark's events are know for.
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Part of the Fox World Famous Fleece, the Fox Pack It Up Pullover is designed to provide great comfort and warmth. With subtle branding, the Pack It Up is sure to be perfect for any occasion.
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"Tai Chi for Better Balance" is an evidence-based fall prevention program for older adults.Library: Millard Branch (402.444.4848)
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His service to his country made him a hero. One mistake made him a prisoner. For General Eugene Irwin (Redford), it's just a matter of serving out his sentence - until he makes the shocking discovery that his fellow inmates are being murdered.
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