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Customer Service
Skip a payment: Letter and subsequent problems
Posted by
ABILENE, TEXAS -- Here is a copy of a letter (email) that I have sent to their "executive response" email about a problem that I have with Citifinancial Auto and copied to their customer service email:
1. You need to do something with your procedures when someone calls in. To be totally ignored and treated as a liar and a thief is unacceptable. On January 27th a man by the name of Frank from telephone number 1-817-835-3291 called me. He asked me if I was going to make my car payment for January (2008). I told him that I had received a letter in the mail back in December (don't remember the exact day that the letter was received) offering "skip a payment" and had taken Citifinancial up on the offer. I received it after I had made the December payment so when I called on December 15th, the "skip a payment" went into effect for January. The person I spoke with on December 15th (whose name I did not get) said that it was processed and that the next payment would now be due in February. He was very congenial and nice. I wish now that I had gotten his name. It never occurred to me that a company could so mess up a simple concept as this or that one department wouldn't have a clue as to what another department was doing in the same company! I told this gentleman who handled the 'skip a payment' that this was great and well-timed because I could use that payment to put tires on the car, which I did at Wal-mart:
Transaction Details
Description: WAL Wal-Mart S 12/15,ABILENE TX \
Posting Date: 12/17/2007
Amount: $340.78
Type: Check Card
On January 27th, Frank was rude to me, treated me like a liar, insinuating that no such letter existed and again wanted to know when I would be making my payment. His tone of voice was insulting as well as his words. He asked with a sarcastic tone, "Well, what was it? Did you have medical expenses that caused you to ask for the skip a pay?" I told him NO, that the offer was made to me with no strings attached and that I had not initiated it at all. He acted as if I had just lied to him. He gave me a number to call, (customer service?) 1-866-917-7842. I tried immediately to call but evidently that office is closed on Sundays. I called on Monday, the 28th and spoke with Janet who transferred me to Natasha who transferred me to Christie. Each time I had to explain why I was calling. While on the line with Christie, we lost the connection so I called back and spoke with Brittany. I again explained the situation. Brittany was very polite and said that she would send an email to "skip a pay" to Charlie. Brittany told me that Charlie would research this and get back to me within 2 business days. I waited but never received a call. On February 1st I called 1-866-917-7842 and spoke with Dixie who immediately asked for my account number or ssn.
I gave her my ssn and she immediately transferred me to the department that started this whole mess – who of course we know now would only transfer me back to the customer service department. I hung up and immediately called back. I again got Dixie who said that it is company policy to transfer the call and she again transferred without any discussion. I hung up and I called back again. I tried asking for Brittany but Dixie said that she couldn't transfer me to Brittany without a last name. Well, of course, we all know that your people don't give out last names so once again, the customer is screwed. I refused to give my number and asked for a supervisor. Dixie argued with me but I insisted and was transferred to the "supervisor." Naturally, you know what happened. Uh-huh, I get the managers station and NO ONE answers but I get the voice mail. I leave a detailed message for someone to get back with me and left my cell phone number.
NO ONE has returned my call; however, your collection department sure can find time to call and harass me. I am at the point now that I am seriously considering buying a tape recorder and recording all conversations between myself and your company. If this is not resolved by the 8th, I will file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and I will turn all data and tapes over to the state for Deceptive Trade violations. I might even put a small ad in our local paper asking if anyone else has had this problem with your company. If one person can't get action maybe a group of people can.
2. This whole mess started because of a letter I received from your company to "skip a payment." I called on December 15th and first got the automated response system. I decided to get the balance left on the loan at that time too so your system should show that I obtained that information from the automated system. Right after that is when I spoke to one of your representatives about the "skip a payment" letter and told that it was processed and that the next payment would be due in February.
3. I regret the day that I refinanced with your company and left HSBC. Getting a lower interest rate was not worth this hassle.
4. I refuse to make any further payments until this is resolved. I was ready to set the February payment on January 27th to be paid on time through my bank's Bill Pay system until FRANK from number 1-817-835-3291 called me. At that time, I decided that this had to be straightened out before any more money transfers from me to you.
I want a WRITTEN response to this email. You can respond via email but if this problem persists I will INSIST that all communications take place by certified mail or, if verbal, only in the presence of a witness on my end or a taped conversation. Once I receive WRITTEN correspondence that this has been resolved, I will initiate the February payment through my bank's Bill Pay system.
As a note to anyone reading this complaint I have filed here on this website:
I have never been late on this loan. In fact, this loan before now was helping my credit rating which is what I wanted it to do because I had been through some rough times for about 8 years. This loan had bumped my credit score up quite a bit. My recommendation is to avoid Citifinancial like the plague. If already in an agreement with them, do everything with documentation in mind. Get all names, keep everything in journal, and everything in a file all by itself!
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Hugh_Jorgen on 02/03/2008:
I know you are upset with them, but if you don't make the February payment, someone at Citi is liable to see you as two payments behind and they most certainly will reposess your car. If you have the letter, can you fax it to them? That should clear it up. Best of luck.
TallCarl on 02/04/2008:
talk2vam - hi, you sent me a comment on ripoffreport dot com and it seems we're deaing with the same issue. I'll update my link there and here (my3cents) when and if there is a resolution. As far as faxing or mailing a copy of the letter, yeah, good luck with that. They loose even electronic notes mysteriously..there's little chance a hard copy will actually do any good. I do recommend you stay current on any "other" payments... I would normally recommend you call them and request a differred-payment, but apparently, they can't even process that correctly. I have never dealt with a company whose processes, from A to Z, whereas badly broken as Citifinancial Auto's. Hopefully, some class action will evolve from this and Citi will finally be taught the simplest of lessons: Own Your Customer's Problem from Beginning to End and Admit When you are Wrong. Citifinancial Auto is no-where close to that I'm afraid...don't think they ever will be.
TallCarl on 04/15/2008:
See my update here: http://www.my3cents.com/showReview.cgi?id=33012#comments
Perhaps it will help you.
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Beware Worst Loan Company!!!!!!
Posted by
I have a car loan with CitiFinancial Auto and let me start out by saying they are the WORST loan company bay FAR!!!!!! Not only are they the worst to deal with the employees are dishonest, and unhelpful. I lost my job so as a reduce in income I called Citi about a loan modification. They kept saying they could help. Finally they said they would fax me the paperwork for a amendment. I waited 1 week and still NO fax from them. So I called them to see where the paperwork was, and again they said oh we will fax it over. Needless to say it took them 3 weeks to fax me the paperwork. By this time they said that the 30 days had run out(this is how long they give you to apply for a amendment.) So they made me make another payment before they would even look at the paper work again. This was the 2nd time they had made me make a payment while trying to do this amendment paperwork. The day that they finally sent over my fax I signed it and faxed it right back. A week later I get a email from them saying my payments late.....so I call them again.
They say they never got the fax!!!! The day I faxed this I sent it twice to make sure they got it. So I re-faxed it to another number given to my by yet another nasty representative, then they said call back in 2 days and see if they received it. SO this morning I call again the first time I got one NASTY women and after telling me they ONCE again didn't receive my fax I was pissed!! I mean who wouldn't be? So now I have sent it over three times. So I tell her this is ridiculous and I want to talk to a manager, she yells at me and hangs up!! Are you serious? I called back and talked to someone else and they told me to fax it AGAIN!!!!!! I'm really so sick of this "well we didn't receive it" Crap! So seems to me like they are dragging this out just so the 30 day amendment application period is up, so once again they will make me pay another payment before starting this process over. This time I was given yet another fax number to send this too, and told well if they do get it, nothing will be updated for 32 hours. Now play the waiting game.....wait yet another 2 days to call them and see if they received it a third time. I can't wait until my car is paid off and I never have to deal with this company again. BEWARE when calling and talking to the representatives they are untruthful, and NEVER do what they say they are going to. And if you too are in a rough financial situation like a lot of us are right now....and you apply for a amendment be ready for all of this Bullsh**!
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Citifinancial Auto = Nightmare
Posted by
RIVERSIDE, CALIFORNIA -- If you have the option to finance or refinance your car loan, PLEASE think twice about going with Citifinancial Auto. They've been nothing but a nightmare to me. Here's the email I wrote to them on Thursday March 13th 2008:
My name is Tim Soto and I'm a (fairly) new Citi Financial Auto customer. I have a complex situation and I'm in desperate need of assistance because I've spent too much personal time and energy trying to fix it. There's a lot that's gone on but I'll try to break it down to make it less confusing...
1. Early February my E-Loan car payment account was transferred over to a Citi account without me knowing.
2. I never received a packet in the mail letting me know that I'm a new Citi customer so I had no idea what my account number was (a coworker of mine also had an E-Loan account switched over and he received a packet in the mail a few days after the transfer).
3. I called and spoke with a woman who told me I had a payment due right away for $269.60. I explained that I was upset because I didn't receive anything letting me know my account information and she apologized but that I'd have to pay the $15 fee for over-the-phone payment. She assured me that I would be credited back the $15 on my next bill (which would mean I'd owe $254.60)
4. I called and spoke with another rep and explained that I still had not received a packet in the mail and they assured me that one was on it's way. I also asked for my account number and he gave it to me.
5. I tried to set up an online account but kept getting an error message after filling out my personal information. I emailed about the situation and received a reply from Tanisha [snip]. She explained that the username/password has to be set up with specific characters (which is not stated ANYWHERE on your site for some reason). Once I followed the strict guidelines I was finally able to create an account.
6. It showed a payment on 3/3/08 so I figured everything was fine. I checked back the next day and then it said it was "reversed" and had a payment due date of 3/2/08 for the total of $254.70. I did not receive an email or phone call about it being reversed so I was very confused. I waited a few days for an answer and then ended up emailing Tanisha [snip] because I didn't want to have a late fee, or worse (I didn't want to make a payment and then have it kick the direct debit back in and ultimately make me pay double). I emailed her on 3/6/08 and did not receive a reply so I emailed her again on 3/11/08 - still no reply.
7. It's extremely hard for me to call Citi Financial because I'm PST time and when I get off work you guys are closed. I do Technical Support and am on the phones throughout the day so I'm unable to call during my work hours. Email is the best option for me but I've received very little help through it.
8. Someone named "Mrs. Thomas" called and left a message for me today and I called back within 10 minutes. I spoke with "Samson" in Customer Support and she was extremely rude and not helpful at all. I tried to explain the situation to her but she didn't want to listen and told me that I could make the payment over the phone but would be charged $15 (again) - this obviously isn't acceptable to me, especially seeing as I already set up direct debit through the website. She did mention that I shouldn't have been charged the $15 the first time because "E-Loan customers don't have to pay any fee's over the phone". Seems like she just contradicted herself there.
9. I called back and spoke with another Customer Support rep (who was MUCH nicer) but told me that there's a late fee on my account and that I'd have to pay $10 for the late fee and another $15 for paying over the phone. So the payment is going to be $25 MORE now?! I thanked her for her time and asked if I could speak with a supervisor. I was on hold for about 10-15 minutes and then the phone started to ring. I expected to talk with a supervisor but instead got a voicemail for someone named Alicia.
10. I tried my best to explain everything in the voicemail to Alicia and then had to hang up (the recording said I only had 15 more seconds to leave the rest of my message). I'm waiting for Alicia to call me back but I'm worried she won't (just my luck). If anyone could PLEASE reply back to this email and/or call my cell phone 951.907.8087.
I just want to pay the $254.70 that I owe and then let the direct debit $269 payments go through every month thereafter. I really don't think this is too much to ask and I'd really appreciate some help.
Please don't reply back telling me to call in about this situation because I've already called and explained it to about 5 different people. If you could forward this to a supervisor (or if you could forward this to "Alicia" in Customer Support - unlikely, I know) I'd greatly appreciate it.
I've been doing a lot of research on Citifinancial Auto and it looks like a TON of people are having problems with them too. At this point I'm not really sure what to do. It's Saturday March 15th and I've yet to receive a call or email from anyone at their company. I'm almost ready to give them a call and just pay the extra $25 and get it over with. Any suggestions? Thanks a lot!
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tnchuck100 on 03/15/2008:
You had better stop that auto-debit. That is going to come back to haunt you big time. NEVER let any company have access to your checking account. They will take any amount anytime they wish. You think you trouble now...you ain't seen nuthin' yet.
When you get this straightened out YOU make the payment through your banks web site 5 days before its due. YOU control when and how much.
sandlizzard on 03/15/2008:
I don't think Citifinancial-auto would deduct any monies from your account. But the customer service is terrible. They are on auto-pilot to collect money. The supervisors are just as bad. Good luck
shaftscaliber on 03/17/2008:
Hey tnchuck100...
I'd rather not have it auto-debit but with them it's the ONLY way to pay (that I'm aware of) without them charging you a $10-$15 "processing" fee. I was just on their website and if you use the "pay now with your debit/credit card" link, it's broken...awesome huh?
And yeah sandlizzard, the customer service is horrible and the supervisors are just as bad. The few times they've called me back, it was always for money only. They've still yet to give a bill through email or regular mail (which I can't comprehend). I can't believe they're even in business!
I'm going to call them today and let them know that I'm recording all the calls now. If this continues on their part I'm going to take legal action (yeah I'm that upset now).
Thanks for the replies guys!
tnchuck100 on 03/17/2008:
I have never heard of mandatory auto-debit for any company. They may be trying to convince of that. If I were you I would look into what they are doing to you much more closely.
Do not pay through their website. They may well charge for that. Pay though your banks website. It works just like you wrote them a check and mailed it. Mark my words, if you don't fix this situation it will cost you further down the road.
DebtorBasher on 03/17/2008:
Auto-Debit is for the customer's convenience...not a mandatory policy. What if someone didn't have a checking account and used Money-orders instead?
shaftscaliber on 03/17/2008:
Here are their payment options:
By Mail (which I'm afraid to do because knowing them they'll probably say they didn't receive it or say wait to deposit it until after its labelled late) - and not to mention I've NEVER received any bill from them in the mail (ridiculous!)
By Direct Debit or ACH (which I signed up for but didn't seem to work if you read my review above)
Check or Debit card by phone (which incurs a $15 payment over the phone fee - no thanks!)
Western Union Quick Collect (which costs $12.95 to process and you need to bring your payment in CASH to a Western Union bank - sounds like a huge pain!)
MoneyGram ExpressPayment ($8.95 processing fee and you must bring your payment in CASH to the location)
tnchuck100 on 03/17/2008:
You seem to keep avoiding what I am telling you about using your bank's website to make the payment. It works just like mailing. And it leaves a trail.
If your bank doesn't support this you have not said that.
TallCarl on 03/17/2008:
Tim, sounds like you and I are dealing with the same lack of customer service issues at Citifinancial Auto. TNCHUCK100 had a good idea; I make payments through my bank now (since Citifinancial Auto has messed up my acct.and restrict payments online, even though it is their error. If you bank has a relationship with them,U can make payments that will show in just a few days. Good luck - we should all start a Class Action against Citifinancial, I think we could win.
shaftscaliber on 03/17/2008:
Hey tnchuck100 - sorry I wasn't trying to avoid comments about using my bank to pay for it. I was replying to DebtorBasher's comment (sorry!) Yeah, think I'll start doing that, thanks!
I called them and spoke with a very nice person named Amanda - she was helpful and said that she'd do her best to make sure they get in touch with me about my situation.
Right before I called I figured I'd say screw it and just pay their stupid fee's. I ended up paying $25 more than I should have but if it helps me end this nightmare I'm all for it.
Really appreciate all the help guys!!!
angies3cents on 04/02/2008:
Hi shaftscaliber! I agree with you 100%. Due to some unexpected medical issues, I became late on one of my payments. I began receiving numerous calls daily from the collectors however was unable to speak with anyone due to medical issues. When I was able to call someone, I was told I should have planned for this unforeseen event and I must be a crazy to think someone would believe I was unable to pick up a phone and make a call while I was in the hospital. I was also called a liar. My whole purpose for the call was to see about clearing up my late payment and getting my account back on track. The representative that I spoke with said he was unwilling to work with me until I made a payment. I, again, explained that I was unable to make a payment that very day due to not working for over a month. I, again, was called a liar because the collector had been leaving me voice mail messages at my job for several days, therefore he assumed (I'm guessing) that I WAS working because I have voice mail set up??? I then told the representative that I wasn't calling to argue, I was only calling to make arrangements to clear up my account. I was then told by the representative that he couldn't do anything for me, or provide any info until I am able to make a payment. I asked to speak with a supervisor. The supervisor told me I would need to make a payment immediately or my vehicle would be repossessed. Can someone please help me???!!! What can I do? I don't understand why they call 5-10 times a day, only to ask for a payment, not to actually help get the account cleared up? Any advice???
shaftscaliber on 04/02/2008:
A user emailed me asking for suggestions cause the same thing is happening to them so I emailed them with the following information below:
Luckily for me it had a fairly happy ending. I emailed every email address on their website stating that I'm extremely fed up and that I'm going to take legal action if it doesn't get resolved. I also called and said screw it and paid the car payment before it became 30 days late (I was worried it was going to affect my credit score...or worse, have them impound my car).
I talked to a very nice and friendly lady (which was a shock...I though they were all a-holes there heh) who told me that they already have a case open for my account (so I know they got the threatening email) and that they would be getting in touch with me shortly.
They never got in touch with me, but they did lower this months car payment by $40 (they owed me $60 all together I believe).
My advice would be just to send them an email explaining everything (step by step) like I did. Hopefully they'll fix the problem for you. Goodluck!!!
patty186 on 04/04/2008:
This EXACT same thing happened to me withE-Loan and Citi around the same time. It took me two hours on the phone with 9 different departments and people to get the credits. I would not hang until I received the credits. I recently paid the loan off in full so I would not have to deal with these idiots any longer. My check cleared my bank for the pay off on 3/31, they will not send me my title until 4/8 because it is "company policy" I even offered to dive to one of their offices to take cash with me to get this finished, they said no, no cash payments. RUn from Citi as FAST as you can!!!!!
TallCarl on 04/15/2008:
here's an update to MY issue with Citifinancial Auto, and how I finally got it resolved. Maybe it will give you an idea. Good luck.
(copy and paste) http://www.my3cents.com/showReview.cgi?id=33012#comments
Anonymous on 04/15/2008:
Thanks for following up with us on your M3C complaint about Citifinancial Auto. It's always appreciated when someone takes time to give us follow up! Best of luck in the future!
Deet on 03/10/2009:
I pay online from my Bank account program - easy and convenient.
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Bad company to do business with!
Posted by
My ex-husband had procured a second mortgage with Citi Financial several years ago and I had to sign on it because my name was on the original mortgage. He passed away recently and it took some time to get the insurance money so in the meantime the loan got a couple payments behind. Since our minor daughter is the heir and wants to keep the property (along with the rest of his family)I tried to get the account up to date because they are threatening to foreclose but the idiots will not let me make a payment. They actually have been sending the bill to me, addressed TO ME but they now say they cannot discuss the account with me. Fine, so I asked if I could just send a payment to keep it out of foreclosure and they said I could send a payment but did not know if it would post to the account or if it would have any bearing on keeping it from foreclosure. No one would help me do something to keep the loan from completely defaulting and going into foreclosure. Even the supervisor of the guy I was trying to talk to was rude and unhelpful. When I repeated back some info she gave me to make sure I got it right she got snippy, and even when asking a general question she snottily said she cannot give out any information. The first mortgage company (which had the loan in his name, not mine anymore) was friendly and helpful and I was able to get the payment caught up. I would not do business with Citi Financial again if my life depended on it. I can remember back when I went to sign for him on this loan and thought how uncomfortable I was dealing with these shysters. I wish I could have talked him out of going with them.
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Citifinancial Auto needs to be audited
Posted by
COLUMBUS, OHIO -- I have had Citifinancial Auto loan for over 2 yrs.
I have never been late on one payment. I was laid off in August of this year. I was 8 days late making payment.
I have contacted CitiFinancial on daily bases.
They are the rudest people and not helpful at all!!!
They have put me on hold so many times I gave up counting and trying to keep a log of my transactions with them.
Most of the representatives do not speak good English. I had no idea what one guy was saying and asked him to spell the word he was was attempting to pronounce. That made him really mad. It was the word "Bills" He had to be of Africian decent. He had a very strong accent. It did not even come close to what I was hearing. He got so frustrated with me he put me on hold and never came back to pick up the phone. So I went into the phone call pool. This went on for over an hour. I asked 4 times to speak with a supervisor. Got no where with that. Finally I did get a woman that was an American and I could understand the lady. She understood me perfectly.
She was very helpful and I hope we got this mess straightened out. I am supposed to call back tomorrow for more of the nightmare at Citifinancial Auto.
I do not know how to get rid of the financial loan with Citifinancial. I am going to check into trading this car in and going with another loan carrier. This company is horrible. Ask ask ask, before you get involved with this company. I had no idea what I was getting into. But as long as I was ontime with my payments I never had any problems to speak of.
I like the others pay my bills through my bank. NEVER NEVER let anyone draft from your bank account. That is the worse thing anyone can set themselves up for.
I just hope I can get out of business with Citifinancial Auto ASAP. NOT RECOMMENDED TO ANYONE ON THE PLANET.
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Anonymous on 10/26/2009:
You've got some contradictory statements there.
"I have never been late on one payment."
But, then you say.
"I was 8 days late making payment."
That's a late payment.
Anonymous on 10/26/2009:
As for how to get another lender, that should be pretty obvious. APPLY with another bank for the auto loan.
ibehere on 10/27/2009:
Well You are right. I have never been late until this month. I was laid off in August and this month has been stretched as far as it can be stretched. I am trying to work with this group of non professional people to get some help with lowering my payments while I am in search for a much needed job.
And as far as getting another auto loan. The Obvious is NO JOB...NO LOAN........
I didn't post on this board because I have nother better to do.
I should have added in my 1st post that I was recently laid off. If no one has experienced the stress of supporting yourself without employment is in a world that I hope they remain in. I am single and have supported myself for over 30 yrs. Lets just say I am in a much better circumstance than some people in this horrid economy.
All of this nonscense with citibank could be easily worked out with some from the company.
I have no intention of ruining my credit needlessly.
RestaurantGuy on 10/27/2009:
ibehere I don't think you will be able to get rid of them and get a new loan on the car being unemployed. My best advice to you would be to try to work out a deferment(sp)with them. It can be hard to do but you have to get to the right people at the bank. They don't want the car back anymore than you want to give it back. Keep having them send you up the ladder as the people answering the phone can't do it. Good luck and I hope you find a job soon.
jktshff1 on 10/27/2009:
good luck ibe
sugarlips on 04/07/2010:
CFA will NOT help you get lower payments... I've been asking for 2 years. They will not 're-finance' their own loans. They are COMPLETE aholes. I hope they get shut down SOON!!
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Customer Service from hell.
Posted on
Hello my name is XXXXXXXXXXXX,
Recently I had some very bad experiences with your Customer Service
Departments. I say departments because I was trying to get information on
my account to be able to track my last car payment and no one from your
department was very helpful. When the responses I was receiving did not
seem right to me I asked one of your customer service reps about 10 times to
speak with a manager. I also had to explain to her that I do not think that
she was giving me wrong information but just that I wanted to talk to a
manager because they might have more access to my information then she has,
and even after that she would not let me speak to a manager. When I finally
got her to transfer me to a manager she hung up on me. I called back 3
times, and I think I got the same representative and she hung up on me again, and one
other representative hung up on me also. I was very polite and did not get
confrontational at any point. I finally spoke to a manager and he made me
feel like it was my problem. When I was asking simple questions like "Has
my allotment payment reached the bank?" and "What can your company do to
trace the payment?". He stated it's all up to me to track payments which I
sent to your company. I am in the US military stationed in Korea and tried
to resolve the situation by staying up till 1200am to fix the problem with
no help whatsoever from your company. I will never do business with your
company again and will make sure that I advise anyone in the military or
civilian associates to do the same. I am trying to solve the problem
through my own channels since it is obvious that your company does not care
anything for its customers welfare. I say this with full clarity because I
have had and am currently do business with other financial companies and I
have never been treated like I was with CITIFINANCIAL. Your company could
learn a lot from Wells Fargo for instance. My experience that I am talking
about was on 05 Aug, 2009 my account number is XXXXXXXXXXXX and I am emailing
this to you in hopes that someone can help me with getting online support
because I truly do not want to experience your customer service ever again.
I have tried to set up an online account using my account information and
the system keeps coming up with a system error as stated below.
(System Error)
(The system has generated an error. Please call us at 1-800-486-1750 or
email auto. firstname.lastname@example.com if this error persists.
Disclaimer: Please be aware that the security of information transmitted by
e-mail cannot be assured and may be intercepted by unknown third parties. We
recommend that you do not send any sensitive customer information, such as
your account numbers or Social Security number by e-mail.)
I have tried three times, and now once again I have to ask for help from
your company in reference to your online customer service department and
telephone help desk. I will also be forwarding this email to any higher
official in the company in hopes that you do something to rectify this
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skelly39 on 08/06/2009:
I agree and disagree with you. Citifinancial is pretty lousy, especially their website that doesn't work. But it's really not up to them to see if your payment hit your bank. That's your job. If it did, then all you need to do is send them proof and then it becomes their problem. If it didn't, you need to stop payment on your first payment and send them another one.
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Stop Complaining And Do Something!!!
Posted by
RALEIGH -- I have been reading some of the comments on this site, and I agree 100% that CitiFinancial is a bunch of crooks, thieves and all around leeches on society. They receive a Government Bailout that WE will have to pay for....only to turn around and stick it to everyone feeling the pinch of the battered and beat up economy.
I say DO SOMETHING!!! Contact the Federal Trade Commission at http://www.ftc.gov/. They have a complaint section. I filed my complaint and hopefully you will too. CitiFinancial needs a good kick in the pants regarding their unsavory collection practices.
Here is some information regarding your rights... and what to do if those rights are violated.
What types of debt collection practices are prohibited? Harassment. Debt collectors may not harass, oppress, or abuse you or any third parties they contact. For example, debt collectors may not:
Use threats of violence or harm; publish a list of consumers who refuse to pay their debts (except to a credit bureau);
Use obscene or profane language; or repeatedly use the telephone to annoy someone.
False statements. Debt collectors may not use any false or misleading statements when collecting a debt. For example, debt collectors may not:
Falsely imply that they are attorneys or government representatives; Falsely imply that you have committed a crime; Falsely represent that they operate or work for a credit bureau; Misrepresent the amount of your debt; Indicate that papers being sent to you are legal forms when they are not; or Indicate that papers being sent to you are not legal forms when they are.
Debt collectors also may not state that:
You will be arrested if you do not pay your debt;
They will seize, garnish, attach, or sell your property or wages, unless the collection agency or creditor intends to do so, and it is legal to do so; or
actions, such as a lawsuit, will be taken against you, when such action legally may not be taken, or when they do not intend to take such action.
Debt collectors may not:
Give false credit information about you to anyone, including a credit bureau;
send you anything that looks like an official document from a court or government agency when it is not; or use a false name.
Unfair practices. Debt collectors may not engage in unfair practices when they try to collect a debt. For example, collectors may not:
Collect any amount greater than your debt, unless your state law permits such a charge; deposit a post-dated check prematurely; use deception to make you accept collect calls or pay for telegrams; take or threaten to take your property unless this can be done legally; or contact you by postcard.
What control do you have over payment of debts?
If you owe more than one debt, any payment you make must be applied to the debt you indicate. A debt collector may not apply a payment to any debt you believe you do not owe.
What can you do if you believe a debt collector violated the law?
You have the right to sue a collector in a state or federal court within one year from the date the law was violated. If you win, you may recover money for the damages you suffered plus an additional amount up to $1,000. Court costs and attorney' s fees also can be recovered. A group of people also may sue a debt collector and recover money for damages up to $500,000, or one percent of the collector' s net worth, whichever is less.
Where can you report a debt collector for an alleged violation?
Report any problems you have with a debt collector to your state Attorney General's office and the Federal Trade Commission. Many states have their own debt collection laws, and your Attorney General' s office can help you determine your rights.
The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive, and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters consumer complaints into the Consumer Sentinel Network, a secure online database and investigative tool used by hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.
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Anonymous on 12/30/2008:
All of the DB groupies here already know what you have written. What I am mising is whether you have verifiable proof that CitiFinancial is violating these laws. If you do, why are you venting here instead of filing a complaint with the government?
madconsumer on 12/30/2008:
great review.
very helpful.
DebtorBasher on 12/30/2008:
I have groupies? ALRRRRRRRRRRIGHT!
I've trained so many collectors and managers on the FDCPA, that I can recite it in my sleep.
Good info for newbies who may not be aware of their rights.
jktshff1 on 12/30/2008:
My first thought was what bill the op has not paid and why don't they just handle it?
Genral' you have colonels, majors, and numerous other ranks below you but I know of no rank call groupies.
DebtorBasher on 12/30/2008:
LOL...Jkt, if you weren't aleady married....ah, nevermind.
jktshff1 on 12/30/2008:
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Unbelievable Employees
Posted by
BEDFORD, TEXAS -- I have had a run-in with Citifinancial Auto. I recently had to file for disability and was told by a credit counselor that we could call Citifinancial and ask for an amendment on our car loan. I did just what they suggested and one the first phone call I got "I don't know what you're talking about." On the second phone call, I was told that there was a program called a Loan Amendment and that we would have to apply for it. She asked for all of my financial information and she forwarded all of it to "the department that handles that." I never heard anything back. So, I called and there was no record of my conversation with the lady and now I need to give them all of my financial information again. They said to give it a few weeks to process and then call back. I called back and then I was told that they had to have written documentation of mine and my husband's income and other financial information and that I should "fax" it to them so they could process it faster. I faxed the information and waited a couple of days and called back. Then I get, "We have to have all of your documentation in before we can process the Amendment." I told them I had sent all of the information by fax and she said, "well, we don't have it. Fax it again." So, I faxed it again. I waited a couple more weeks and called back and then was told that the Amendment was placed on hold because there was a payment due. I paid the payment and she said she would forward it to "that department" again. I still did not receive any call or letter about the Amendment. I then called back and was told that there was documents missing. Our proof of income that I had faxed twice before. I refaxed this again after several phone calls requesting supervisor's and "this department" and got nowhere. Then I called back and they said that the Amendment was approved and that the paperwork would be mailed to me. I asked about the new payment amount and due date and she said she did not have any of that information because it was mailed to me. She said to wait a few days and call back if I did not receive it. I waited a week and called back and they said they would have to resend it. She said to give it a few days and call back if I still did not receive it. I called back a few days later and was told that they had to "redo" all of the paperwork and do the process all over again and that I would need to fax them my income, AGAIN. I asked to speak to "that department" and was told that they did not accept phone calls from customers. I asked for supervisors and was transferred to team leads. I asked for managers and was disconnected, told "they are all in a meeting", and was transferred to voicemails of people I had never heard of. I left a total of 4 messages and received only 1 return call. She called me while I had company at my home and I told her I could not talk about it and she said that if I couldn't talk to her then, I would have to wait 3 days before I could speak to her again and then I would have to leave her a message and she would "try" to call me back. This has been going on since August of 2006 and I have not yet received an Amendment. According to the credit counselor's, all finance companies offer these types of Amendments and they are required by law to let you apply for them. It's so convenient that we have been given the run around. Sounds to me like they don't want to give the Amendment, but are "playing the role" of letting us apply. Is there anyone who can help me in this matter. I have filed a complaint with the BBB and I would like to take it further because I have been verbally attacked, yelled at, hung up on, harassed by phone calls up to 4 times in one day asking for payments, and told I was a complete idiot because they knew more than I did and treated as though I made all of this up in my head. THESE PEOPLE ARE UNBELIEVABLE!!!!
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rhondam718732 on 11/13/2006:
I can see your frustration and it is all very rude & unfair. BUT...guests or no guests, you went through hell to try & get someone to work with you on your request and when someone calls you put them off. It's not fair to you but if it were impt enough to you then your guests would have understood and 15 mins on the phone would have been worth it
Wendy70 on 11/13/2006:
That's just it. It is never just 15 minutes on the phone. I have to give a presentation every time and then I'm always put on hold or hung up on. What's wrong with them having to wait a few hours?
TallCarl on 03/10/2008:
Sorry you're having to deal with these guys. I'm dealing with them on a different issue, but get the same service (have to repeat myself every time I call, no-one has record of previous calls, they don't see previous request, someone will call me back-they never do, or I can call back in two days and speak to supervisor - and the supervisor never seems to answer their phone or return messages. It would not surprise me if Citifinancial Auto is breaking multiple lending laws - Anyone know a good attorney who wants to take them on in a class action?
TallCarl on 04/15/2008:
Check my update here: (copy and paste)
Perhaps it will give you an idea.
handfull on 02/06/2009:
I have Citi as well and lost my job. I was late payments two months in a row and when I called to make one, I told the man I was sorry.....since the hurricane and I lost my job, I have fallen behind... He told me to call my account manager and get an amedment app filled out. I did and they told me they would try to lower my really high interest rate. I have faxed and called for 3 wks now, also 3 wks late on my payment. Finally, I called yesterday and he said again to give it til Monday or Tuesday. Today we got a fax! They cut our interest in half, saving us over $200 a month. We still have to sign the agreement, but it seems real enough to us. Also, since I haven't paid Jan 09 yet, they skipped that and Feb, next one due in March. Does this seem like something they are doing now? or are they going to throw me around like that last person?
AuntieM on 06/14/2009:
This is basically the same thing that has happened to me!
My income was dropped in half due to the economy. So, I called Citifinacial Auto about the amendment. I faxed the paperwork twice (because they said they didn't get it the first time), called back the days they told me, did the over the phone evaluation and was told I was approved but had to wait for the final process, so I waited again and called back when they said to find out my new payment. Now I've been told that I have a late fee and my amendment was denied because I was late on my payment! I started the process 2 weeks before my payment date and was told it would be done 2 days before my payment was due. So frustrating! Now I have to pay my regular car payment, plus a late fee and start all over again on the amendment. :( What was the purpose of the whole waiting game? To get an extra late fee payment?
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Almost Fraudulent Autoloan
Posted by
When I purchased my 2008 Mustang GT, I could only get financing through CitiFinancial Auto as I have no credit history. My interest rate is 16.99% and I am making my payments religiously. In April 2010, I started making payments early and adding funds to my payment to apply to principal balance only. I've made additional payments and noticed that the balance did not go down as anticipated if the principal payments would have been applied as intended. I have called their customer service # on 5 different occasions, and every time I am told that they could not apply anything to additional principal, unless your loan is paid up to two months ahead of schedule. When asking for amortization schedule of the loan, not available. When asking to speak to a supervisor, the customer service representative in Pune, India either hangs up the phone or refuses to transfer the call. I am in the process to get this car loan re-financed with another financial institution, as the lack of US based customer service and improperly applying loan payments are against any proper business practices. Nowhere in the loan paperwork does it state that you can't make payments towards additional principal. Additionally, they are holding back depositing checks mailed in for 3-4 weeks in order to charge their daily interest to the loan to keep the balance high.
I wish Congress and the consumer agencies would review their lending practices for hard working, bill paying Americans. They seem to be more concerned about hiring Thousands of Indians and paying their $ 2000.00 per year wages, ang pocket all the profits for their Bahamian resorts.
What happened to the "Truth in Lending" bill just introduced?
If I have to pay these type of fees and APR's, at the very least I would like to see my fellow Americans being offered employment in the US.
I will refrain from giving Citifinancial Auto any additional business, nor will I give them a favorable recommendation if I'd ever be asked about their lending practices.
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leet60 on 07/31/2010:
As unfortunate as it is, this is normal business for auto lenders in situations such as yours in which there was no established credit history to judge your "creditworthiness" on.
Simply put, they aren't in business to lose money, and their policy of not applying additional payments to principal first is in the interest of their business. If you are not able to refinance through a more favorable lender, you may want to simply scrimp and save until you can meet their requirement of making two additional payments, then make extra on your monthly payments.
Your best bet is a credit union loan. I wish you the best.
MaggieMcT on 08/01/2010:
Ditto to leet60's comment. My auto loan is with my credit union, and when I pay extra, it does go onto the principal.
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NEVER again!
Posted by
My husband and I got an auto loan through CitiFinancial Auto a couple of years ago. We moved with our company and our payday changed dates. We have been over our due date several times...although not late more than once. CitiFinancial will begin calling us on the day our payment is due even though there is a 10 day grace period. They call CONSTANTLY! I have been getting anywhere from 1-5 calls daily even after I have already talked to a representative about the payment. They are notorious for calling me at 10:00pm even on Sunday night!! I have had representatives hang up on me, call me names, and refuse to let me speak to someone in an American service center. I have called to complain on more than one occasion and had been assured that I will no longer receive calls on Sunday or past 9:00, (which is still too late in my opinion). I am to the point of contacting an attorney about being harassed. I am trying to refinance my loan through someone else but the value of my truck dropped considerably when gas prices shot up and I am beginning to think I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I would not only NOT recommend an auto loan through this company I have been quite vocal to people not even considering and auto loan through them about steering clear! I will NEVER finance anything through this company again. I don't care if I have to live in a tent in the park and get to work by bicycle!
And here is the PS for those of you who commented that I clearly stated I was consistently late and so deserved the treatment I have received...
I have missed my payment due date no more than 4 times in three years. On each of these occasion I called the company to keep them apprised of the situation. I have asked them at the time of these conversations NOT to contact me by phone and yet they completely disregard my request. I have received collection calls from them even when they have the check in their possession. Apparently if they haven't processed it I am still liable. SO, rather than tell me being late means they can call me, (and I am very much aware that they can) read the post in its entirety and realized that even if I completely default on my loan they do not have the right to harass me, threaten me, or belittle me as a person. It's called the fair debt collection practices act. Read up on it.
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Anonymous on 04/26/2010:
Sounds like to me CitiFinancial has too many people on the payroll.
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- Step 1: We admitted we were powerless over our addiction – that our lives had become unmanageable.
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Here you will find everything you need to know about 12 Step Recovery. The Twelve step program is being used around the world for all of the things in life that create dis-ease! Browse the12steps.com for tools, books and advice.
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Book your room at Suites Gaby
Standard RoomMax Occupancy: 2 guests (up to 1 child, 1 infant)
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Cancun hotel with a restaurant
With a stay at Suites Gaby, you'll be centrally located in Cancun, steps from Market 28 and minutes from Palapas Park.
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Shock Troops DVD
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text: 5 Sheer Excellenceha66ie | 13/07/2008 | See all ha66ie's reviews (153)Top 100 Gadgets Reviewer Top 100 Sport and Outdoor Reviewer One of the best Disney films ever made. Full of laughs, brilliantly animated and very catchy songs. Glad to see this re-released. This pack has an extra sleeve and a booklet with the songwords. Limited edition so grab one before it sells out and gets deleted again. One thing is this film will leave you wanting to see the 2nd and the 3rd editions. So weigh this up against the also re-released trilogy. Highly recommended!


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By Keiana Smith-McDowell, NAMI Communications Intern
|(Photo: The U.S. Army - Flickr)
Recommendations on strategies to improve the mental and substance abuse treatment for veterans, service members and their families were discussed with the Interagency Task Force on Military and Veterans Mental Health in a meeting this February.
The meeting was the result of an executive order President Obama signed in August 2012 urging the federal government to outline a plan of action to better assist veterans and their families especially after deployment.
Since Sept. 11, 2001, more than 2 million service men and women have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. According to a press release by the Department of Defense, 26 potential suicides occurred among active-duty soldiers in the Army in July 2012. Seventy-one potential non active duty (National Army Guard and Army Reserve) were reported for the year 2012 as well.
In the past 12 years, roughly 18 to 22 Veterans died from suicide each day. These alarming numbers pressed President Obama to step in and take action.
Jean Moore, Manager of Military and Veterans Policy and Support at NAMI attended the meeting.
"I welcomed the opportunity to meet with the White House Task Force. Gathering information from those on the ground is always important when developing national strategies," Moore said.
Moore added, "With respect to the President's executive order, however, it would have been nice to have received a briefing on accomplishments to date."
Key elements outlined to promote coalition building as well as service member's transition into civilian life include and are not limited to:
President Obama pressed that the mission of member agencies working alongside the task force is to labor collaboratively on these strategies and also create inventory of mental health and substance abuse programs and activities to inform this work.
NAMI is also working diligently to expand education and offer support to mental illness involving veterans and service members. NAMI plans to redevelop the existing Web-based veteran and military resource center to include relevant and interactive information, reaching out and partnering with agencies like the Defense Centers of Excellence and Veterans Affairs who have a wealth of information to share, and promoting NAMI's signature program while advocating from within for more veteran targeted programs.
"Collaboration is key," said Moore. "We want to work to increase the collaboration amongst other stakeholders to help meet the mental health needs of veterans and military."
In the executive order, President Obama presented the task force a timeline of 180 days to send recommendations. On Feb. 2, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs sent out a news release announcing they had made significant progress in providing mental health care services. In compliance with President Obama's orders, as of Jan. 29 the VA has hired 1,058 mental health clinical providers as well as 223 administrative support staff members.
The executive order calls for 1,600 metal health clinical providers and 300 administrative members to be hired by June 30, 2013.
The VA has also hired more staff to assist with the Veterans Crisis Line as made specific in the executive order.
Moore believes the first step is working to reduce the stigma associated with mental illness.
"Fear is immobilizing. Many of the barriers associated with the lack of access to mental health care are due to a lack of understanding. Forward movement requires more people to demonstrate care, respect and empathy for the 1 percent of people who fight for our liberties and freedom," said Moore.
Copyright Date: 03/14/2013
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Michelle Obama Gives Speech At Bowie State University Commencement
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Graduages of Bowie State University arrive for the school's... News Photo 168943649Arrival,Campus,Ceremony,College Park,Comcast Center - Maryland,Government,Graduation,Horizontal,Maryland,Politics,School,USA,University of Maryland,University of Maryland - Baltimore CountyPhotographer Chip SomodevillaCollection: Getty Images News 2013 Getty ImagesCOLLEGE PARK, MD - MAY 17: Graduages of Bowie State University arrive for the school's graduation ceremony at the Comcast Center on the campus of the University of Maryland May 17, 2013 in College Park, Maryland. First lady Michelle Obama delivered the commencement speech for the 600 graduates of Maryland's oldest historically black university and one of the ten oldest in the country. (Photo by Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)


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Sea to Summit Compression Sacks
FEATURES of the Sea to Summit Compression Sacks
- Made of 70D polyurethane-coated nylon
- 2,000mm waterproof fabric
- Flip-top-lid design prevents strap tangling
- Four straps for even compression
- Extra long straps so it's easy to fill to capacity
- Nylon webbing pull handle on bottom
- Updated color scheme
SPECIFICATIONS of the Sea to Summit Compression SacksSPECIFICATIONS for X-Small
- Volume: 6 liter to 2 liter
- Dimension: 5.5 x 14"
- Weight: 3.9 oz / 110 g
- Volume: 10 liter to 3.3 liter
- Dimension: 7 x 16"
- Weight: 4.5 oz / 128 g
- Volume: 14 liter to 4.5 liter
- Dimension: 8 x 18"
- Weight: 5.5 oz / 156 g
- Volume: 20 L to 6.5 liter
- Dimension: 9 x 20"
- Weight: 6.2 oz / 175 g
- Volume: 30 liter to 10 liter
- Dimension: 10.5 x 23"
- Weight: 7.6 oz / 215 g
This product can only be shipped within the United States. Please don't hate us.
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A Rose by Any Name: Hobe' Sterling Bracelet
The logo "Legendary Jewels of Splendor" is used to refer to pieces designed and fabricated by the Hobe' family since the late 1880s in Paris. The tradition of this jeweler was to make beautiful items accessible to those of moderate means in the form of "costume jewelry". Having quite a following in America since the late 1920s, collectors continue to seek out pieces to this day.
Not at all what we might refer to as costume jewelry, this sterling silver link bracelet borders on the superb. Fine silver open work characterizes each of five round panels decorated with a three-dimensional rendering of a rose flower in full bloom.
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Measurements: 7-1/4 inches (18.5 cm) in length when worn and will fit up to a slightly larger wrist. Weight of 33.3 grams (21.4 dwt).
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Condition: Excellent
Date: Circa 1940 - 1950.
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4.5-3 Tampering with a Witness -- § 53a-151
Revised to December 1, 2007 (modified November 1, 2008)
The defendant is charged [in count ___] with tampering with a witness. The statute defining this offense reads in pertinent part as follows:
a person is guilty of tampering with a witness if, believing that an official proceeding is pending or about to be instituted, (he/she) induces or attempts to induce a witness to (testify falsely / withhold testimony / elude legal process summoning (him/her) to testify / absent (himself/herself) from any official proceeding).
For you to find the defendant guilty of this charge, the state must prove the following elements beyond a reasonable doubt:
Element 1 - Witness in an
official proceeding
The first element is that the defendant believed that an official proceeding was pending or about to be instituted1 and that <insert name of witness> was likely to be a witness. An "official proceeding" is any proceeding held or that may be held, before any legislative, judicial, administrative or other agency or official authorized to take evidence under oath, including any referee, hearing examiner, commissioner or notary or other person taking evidence in connection with any proceeding. A "witness" is any person summoned or who may be summoned to give testimony in an official proceeding. In this case, the state alleges that <insert name of witness> was a witness who was to appear before <insert type of proceeding>.
Element 2 - Influence
The second element is that the defendant induced or attempted to induce a witness to (testify falsely / to withhold testimony / to elude legal process summoning the witness to testify / to absent (himself/herself) from an official proceeding).
It is immaterial whether the defendant was successful in producing the result (he/she) intended. It is sufficient if the defendant specifically intended by (his/her) conduct to cause a particular witness to testify falsely or to refrain from testifying at all. A person acts "intentionally" with respect to a result when (his/her) conscious objective is to cause such result. <See Intent: Specific, Instruction 2.3-1.>
In summary, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that 1) the defendant believed that <insert name of witness> was to be a witness before <insert type of proceeding>, and 2) the defendant induced or attempted to induce <insert name of witness> to <insert specific allegations>.
If you unanimously find that the state
has proved beyond a reasonable doubt each of the elements of the crime of
tampering with a witness, then you shall find the defendant guilty. On the
other hand, if you unanimously find that the state has failed to prove beyond a
reasonable doubt any of the elements, you shall then find the defendant not
1 The requirement that the defendant believe that an official proceeding is "about to be instituted" is satisfied "if a defendant, knowing he has been implicated as a participant in a crime, threatens a likely witness to that crime, to withhold evidence from the police." State v. Pommer, 110 Conn. App. 608, 618, cert. denied, 289 Conn. 951 (2008).
In rejecting the defendant's argument that the statute was unconstitutionally vague, the Supreme Court, in State v. Cavallo, 200 Conn. 664, 669 (1986), stated that "[t]he legislature's choice of the verb 'induce' connotes a volitional component of the crime of tampering . . . [T]he statute focuses on the mental state of the perpetrator." "[A] defendant is guilty of tampering with a witness only if he intends that his conduct directly cause a particular witness to testify falsely or to refrain from testifying at all. . . . As long as intent is a necessary element of the crime under § 53a-151, which penalizes only verbal acts relating to a specific pending prosecution, the statute casts no chilling effect on general exhortations concerning cooperation with judicial proceedings." Id., 672. See also State v. Coleman, 83 Conn. App. 672, 690-91, cert. denied, 271 Conn. 910 (2004), cert. denied, 544 U.S. 1050, 125 S.Ct. 2290, 161 L.Ed.2d 1091 (2005) (the court's instruction accurately conveyed the element of intent to affect the testimony of a witness); State v. Higgins, 74 Conn. App. 473, 487-89, cert. denied, 262 Conn. 950 (2003) (calling victim and instructing her to tell the police that "nothing ever happened" clearly comes within the meaning of "induce").
In State v. Jimenez, 74
Conn. App. 195, cert. denied, 267 Conn. 947 (2002), the defendant was charged
with sexual assault, kidnapping, risk of injury to a minor, accessory to
tampering with a witness, and hindering prosecution. The court charged the jury
that it could use the evidence presented on the hindering prosecution and
tampering with a witness as consciousness of guilt evidence on the other three


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Grilling Techniques Around the Globe
Meat and fire — was there ever a more perfect pair? On skewers, on a spit, or just tossed right on the barbie, grilling and barbecue in all its various forms is hugely popular around the world. Find out how people in countries around the globe like to cook their meats and vegetables over an open flame.
Itching to explore great barbecue a little closer to home? Check out our roundup of barbecue festivals across the U.S..
Note: Although grilling and barbecue mean two distinct things in the United States, the distinction is not so clear around the globe. Included here are styles that sometimes blur those lines but remain extremely delicious.
By Lauren Haslett
Yakitori; Japan
Japan has one of the great food cultures of the world, and grilled foods are certainly a big part of that. Yakitori most commonly refers to skewered grilled chicken or chicken parts, but can also be used to refer to other skewered grilled foods. Although the official term for non-poultry items cooked in this fashion is kushiyaki, the two terms are often used interchangeably. These deliciously charred, grilled bites of food are often served as bar snacks, and anyone ordering yakitori has the choice of asking for it simply grilled with salt (shio) or with the popular tare sauce — a combination of mirin (rice wine), sake, salty soy sauce, and a hint of sugar, which helps the ingredients caramelize beautifully on a hot grill.
Make It: Yakitori-Style Recipes


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Free Music Download from Me In MotionPosted December 3, 2010 - 2:07pm
Me In Motion wants to partner with you this Christmas to encourage a spirit of giving. Their new Christmas song "Give It Away" is available as a  More ...
David Crowder Band's Unique Music Video for SMS (Shine)Posted November 26, 2010 - 2:29pm
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Britt Nicole debuted her brand new music video, "Headphones" on iTunes. After just 24 hours of being released, it skyrocketed to No. 1 on the Christian & Gospel iTunes®" video chart. More ...
Tour the Disciple BusPosted November 12, 2010 - 12:35pm
Recently found on Disciple lead singer Kevin Young's Twitter account (@disciplekevin): "The last 2 1/2 weeks we've covered the US, Canada, Holland, Belgium, Germany, & Switzerland. Somebody needs a nap! View the Diciple Tour Bus!
Surfer Shawn McDonald Stops At K-LIFEPosted November 5, 2010 - 6:45am
Shawn McDonald stopped by the K-LIFE studios on 11/4 to update us on his new album 'Closer' which releases in March of 2011. As an avid surfer, Shawn was pleased to see the More ...
Charmaine Stops in for her 1st Visit to K-LIFEPosted October 29, 2010 - 2:41pm
Charmaine visited the K-LIFE studios on 10/28 for her very first visit. She spoke of the inspiration behind her song, 'Run (Love Is On The Move)' which was inspired by her Compassion Sponsored child. Her name is Maria and she is 5 years old--Charmaine explained Maria lives in the slums of Peru. Congrats to the K-LIFE listeners who won a copy of her album, Love Reality.
October Manafest Studio VisitPosted October 21, 2010 - 4:17pm
Manafest stops in for a visit in the K-LIFE on 10/21. The line up includes on the left, Josh McIntosh (guitar), Travis Blackmore (drums), Manafest (AKA Chris Greenwood) & Mike Cross (bass). K-LIFE listeners had their questions answered during the interview More ...
From Season Seven on American Idol to Christian RadioPosted October 14, 2010 - 3:56pm
Fall Partnership Drive--How did it End?Posted October 8, 2010 - 2:45pm
It was a great moment in K-LIFE history. Re-live the final moments of the Fall Partnership Drive in this behind-the-scenes video. The march to victory was caught on tape and you can see it unfold.
For the complete results, visit www.klife.org/support/partnership


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What does MMC mean in Chemistry?
This page is about the meanings of the acronym/abbreviation/shorthand MMC in the Academic & Science field in general and in the Chemistry terminology in particular.
MethylMercuric Chloride
Find a translation for MMC in other languages:
Select another language:
Discuss this MMC abbreviation with the community:
Use the citation below to add this abbreviation to your bibliography:
"MMC." Abbreviations.com. STANDS4 LLC, 2014. Web. 28 Dec. 2014. <http://www.abbreviations.com/term/1414189>.
MMC also stands for:
- Chief Machinist's Mate
- Ciudad Mante, Mexico
- Coastal Minelayer (Minecraft, Minelayer, Coastal)
- Machina Muesum Committee
- Machina Museum Committee
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text: Gotham Gazette's New York City Quiz by Mark Berkey-Gerard, Mar 21, 2001 Twitter Tweet Editor's Choice With a Smirk, Bharara Diagnoses New York Corruption Problem Public Conversation on New Veterans Department Begins The Evolving Definition of Transparency Comments Comment(s) The comments section is provided as a free service to our readers. Gotham Gazette's editors reserve the right to delete any comments. Some reasons why comments might get deleted: inappropriate or offensive content, off-topic remarks or spam. Last Updated (Aug 04, 2014) Recent Articles by Mark Berkey-Gerard :Reconstructing New York's Building Code OverhaulEducation, Housing, Health...And The 2007 BudgetNew York's Port, Beyond DubaiRedefining Economic DevelopmentEminent Domain Revisited


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Wednesday, August 22, 2007
Holding Hands During the "Our Father"
A - No, that is not true. The US Bishops have not said anything about the issue one way or the other nor has the Vatican for that matter. Although there is quite a bit of differing opinion on the matter, there is no authoritative law about whether we should or should not do.
Now, does that mean it is the best thing to do? That is up for debate and it is a debate which really is a distraction in many ways - but I digress. Suffice it to say that there is nothing intrinsically "wrong" with holding hands. While it isn't proscribed in the rubrics that we hold hands, it also doesn't say we cannot.
WARNING - PERSONAL OPINION ON THE HORIZON - I would prefer not to hold hands and it isn't because it isn't in "the rules" that we can. It is a theological argument that Pope Benedict XVI made in his book, Spirit of the Liturgy. The point of holding hands is a sign of community and communion. Since this is the case, it is a misplaced sign, because we aren't truly in communion until we have exchanged the sign of peace. this is why Communion happens after the Sign of Peace, because it is the sign of communion par excellence.
Now, my opinion certainly isn't authoritative and I do find myself holding hands, especially with my children. I also do not think anyone is going to have to answer for their "hand-holding opinion" when they reach the gates of Heaven. So, I would rest comfortably doing whatever you would like to do.
I advise that we not get too distracted by little things such as this in Mass. It takes away our true growth in holiness. I myself was once what I call a "liturgical cop". After talking to my spiritual director about how to straighten out the liturgy in one parish, he looked me in the eyes and said "I think that you should worry about your own holiness and not this". That straightened me out and helped me to hang up my badge.
Are there times we should speak up? Yes. Do I believe this is a war that we need to fight? No. I hope that helps. If you want further clarification or if it still bothers you, then ask to talk to your pastor about it. But, do so in a non-accusatory way.
7 comments:
- Anonymous said...
First of all I agree with you, I don't think it should be done either. I think that the argument that nothing has been said one way or the other, is a very weak one, as the rubrics do not say one way or the other that we shouldn't stand on our heads during the sermon, but luckily most people refrain from that. I could almost swear that, at least a couple of years ago, I saw something in the Diocesan liturgical manual (or was it an addendum to the GIRM?) that gave a very specific directive on what was to be done during the Our Father. I warn you, I'm paraphrasing from memory, but I'm pretty sure that it said something to the effect of we aren't supposed to hold hands, but rather assume the orans position (which I don't understand why the laity would do that either). I saw it in the cabinet in front of Lucy's desk.
- bullschuck said...
From what I've Googled in the last five minutes, there's not anything in the GIRM to says "hold hands" or "don't hold hands" or "assume the orans posture." There was something in the ICEL Sacramentary of '99 that said "let's make orans permissible," and there was much debate over allowing the congregation to assume a position that's been reserved for the priest for quite a while. That Sacramentary was thrown out (rejected by the Vatican) about five years ago. All that said, you need to have a very specific, very powerful, very easily explainable and understandable reason to change this custom. It's that ingrained, it's that important to a large majority of the faithful. And a great big "thank you," to Marcel for pointing out that all of my discussion above is nothing but a colossal waste of time in comparison to things that I could have done to foster holiness in my life or the lives of folks around me, or to participate in works of mercy, or to spend time working my way through a challenging passage of Sacred Scripture.
At the heart of the Liturgical Cop is the notion that somehow, the Mass will be more beautiful to God when we all perform our functions in a certain, prescribed way. But my question is this, Can the most beautiful choir singing Gregorian Chant, a perfectly attendant and participative congregation obeying every jot and tittle of someone's vision of the GIRM really offer anything more to the Father than the Eucharist? Do we really expect to make the Perfect Sacrifice more perfect? I'm not saying that we shouldn't try, or that we should be having one of those legendary Pizza and Coke Masses, I'm just saying, what are we really trying to accomplish here?
- Gilbert said...
I think holding hands at this point, especially the way it's done at St. Mary's (filling in the center aisle), can be distracting. When the "Our Father" is over and the "Sign of Peace" begins some people might be a nice walk away from their original spot, trying to shake hands or hug everyone on their way back.
Many times the Agnus Dei has started and people are still making the sign of peace. The theological/liturgical reasons for ceasing this practice are one thing, but the logistical issues are another. The whole thing is just kind of awkward I think.
- Ed said...
Here is a link to one of the better responses I've read on the subject. Personally, I think there are good reasons why hand holding should not be done. At the same time, it's not a battle I see as worth fighting. There are more important things that we all need to focus on.
- Geoff said...
I didn't realize that this had been blogged upon here. I'm very glad to hear a calm discussion of this, as I've seen it rabidly debated on both sides.
As another recovering liturgical cop, I thank you for your words about trying for better personally holiness, Marcel. I believe I have improved over the course of my college education, fortunately.
Regarding the holding of hands, I, too prefer not to. I decided this because of liturgical scruples (perhaps "over-"scruples) but I continue to abstain because like others, I consider the physical actions and locomotion of milling about to take my attention away from addressing a prayer to "Our Father".
Early on, my only sorrow about it was that while it helps me to pray, I couldn't help but worry that now and again it might make a good-intentioned soul feel slighted, however, I haven't really received any sour looks over it. It's probably important that people can tell that your subsequent sign of peace is genuine and you aren't shunning them or something! haha
I must compliment the hand-holding practice as it is practiced at St. Mary's, however, because it is the only place I've encountered in all of Texas where people wait for the priest to finish the prayer before ambling back toward their seats. I consider this evidence that the prayer is being actively prayed (in the Vatican II-"active participation" sense of the word) by St. Mary's in an institutional manner, which I think is a good thing.
In most parishes, if you pay attention, the hold holding breaks early...if you're not sure what I'm talking about you'll notice it the next time you go to Mass now that I've mentioned it, however, going off of what Marcel said, looking for this to occur would not be conducive to active participation in the actual prayer! :^) In placed where it is practiced in that, I would opine that the moving about should be addressed.
- webmaster said...
I have to diverge a little bit...I grew up holding hands (at St. Mary's, natch) and the tradition holds in my family. I actually think that holding hands is not only appropriate, but a symbol of the unity of the people in worship to God. After all, we are praying to "OUR Father", not "MY Father", right?
- Geoff said...
Ah, but the Nicene Creed is currently (incorrectly) translated in English to start with "we believe", why doesn't anyone hold hands during it or any other part of the mass where we say "we" or "our"?


text:
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