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I never heard of this. Horrific!
Cash's Chicago balcony collapse thread reminded me of the Hyatt balcony collapse in Kansas City.
It was July 17, 1981.
More than 1,500 people were beginning their weekend by attending the weekly Friday evening tea dance at the Hyatt Regency Hotel in Kansas City, Mo.
A tuxedo-clad, 15-piece dance band was playing Duke Ellington's "Satin Doll."
Women in light prints and men in cotton sport coats danced or listened while sipping from cocktail glasses.
Many enjoyed the music in the jam-packed lobby, with toes tapping or hips swaying to the beat.
Others stood and watched from above on the hotel's skywalks -- walkways on the second, third and fourth floors that were made of concrete reinforced with steel beams and suspended artistically by steel girders.
Suddenly, the music and laughter were drowned out by what witnesses described alternately as a "snap," a "roar" or an "explosion."
Within seconds, they were hearing screams as death rained down upon victims of the deadliest accident in the city's history.
The fourth-floor skywalk -- suspended 45 feet above the lobby -- collapsed when steel connections from the walkways to the wall failed.
The skywalk fell onto the second-floor skywalk, directly below and 15 feet above the floor, before both collapsed into the lobby. As they fell they broke third-floor pipes, causing water to gush into the lobby.
That lobby was almost instantly transformed into a tangle of twisted girders and broken glass, marked by spattered blood and the mangled bodies of people torn to pieces or crushed by tons of concrete and steel.
The disaster occurred at 7:11 p.m. and killed 114 people, including almost 50 Kansans. About 200 more were injured.
The tragedy left emotional scars upon those who has witnessed the horrendously bloody, mass death of more than 100 people.
Even today, Topekan Teresa Cuevas hates to think about it.
Mariachi Estrella de Topeka
Cuevas, now 81, suffered serious injuries and lost four close friends in the collapse.
She and her friends were members of Mariachi Estrella de Topeka, a band that played mostly traditional mariachi tunes.
The seven-member group -- which was unique because all its members were women -- was gaining in popularity and had even found itself forced to turn down some engagements.
Six members were to perform at the Hyatt at 8 p.m. on July 17. One, Isabelle Gonzales, had stayed home to care for two young children.
The performers arrived at the 1-year-old hotel at about 7 p.m. They were being led to the room where they were to play and had just stepped onto the second-floor walkway when chunks of concrete and steel rained down upon them and they plunged into the lobby.
The collapse killed band members Connie Alcala, 32; Dolores Carmona, 35; Linda Scurlock, 36; and Dolores Galvan, 26.
Survivors were Cuevas, who suffered crushed vertebrae, a concussion and severe bruising, and Rachel Galvan, who suffered bruises and a broken ankle.
Rachel Galvan, who has since married and taken the last name Sangalang, told The Topeka Capital-Journal the day after the disaster that the collapse had taken her by surprise.
"We went up to the second floor and went around to the side, onto the balcony," she said. "The next thing I knew it was falling from beneath me."
Sangalang was covered by debris and pinned to the floor by a heavy object. She lay trapped for 60 to 90 minutes.
"They pulled a man from beside me who had died," she said. "I was very lucky."
Cuevas told The Capital-Journal later that year that she was "just walking ... and then we all started falling."
Cuevas said she heard screaming and thought she was dreaming. She thought of her family during the roughly 90 minutes she remained trapped beneath the rubble.
"I kept hollering and praying. I was praying aloud in Spanish," she said.
Finally, rescuers came.
"A man grabbed my hand and said, 'Here's a live one,'" Cuevas said. "I wouldn't let go of his hand. I wouldn't let go."
"If our timing had been just a little different"
The Rev. Ken and Jeanette Grenz saw the skywalks collapse from their table at a restaurant in the hotel. But if Jeanette Grenz had gotten her way, she said, they may have been beneath the skywalks.
The Grenzes had recently moved to the Kansas City area, where Ken Grenz was associate pastor for a United Methodist Church in Overland Park. The couple previously lived in South Dakota, where they had taken ballroom dancing classes.
"I saw the tea dances at the Hyatt advertised and thought it looked like fun, so we went," Ken Grenz said.
The tea dances were a Friday night fixture at the 40-story hotel, which was the city's newest and one of its most luxurious. The Grenzes arrived at about 5:30 p.m. and listened to the music but didn't dance.
"The mood was upbeat, Friday night and workweek cares were put aside," Ken Grenz recalled. "The band played in one corner and a line formed under the skywalks for featured strawberry daiquiries."
The couple went up on the skywalks and watched the dancers from above.
"It was a nice view of the dance floor," Jeanette Grenz said.
Ken Grenz and his wife debated whether to get in the drink line under the skywalks or go eat at the Terrace Cafe.
"I won out so we headed up, were seated and ordered," he said. "Our table overlooked the lobby."
Jeanette Grenz said the choice left her "a bit annoyed because I really wanted to dance."
Ken Grenz ordered Shanghai chicken and sat facing the skywalks, with his wife facing him.
"The band was playing 'Satin Doll' when suddenly I saw the skywalks come crashing down on the lobby floor, smashing the festivity beneath clouds of dust sprayed by water spurting from torn pipes where the walks had been ripped from their sockets," he said in written comments.
"After a moment of what felt like silence, cries and chaos began to erupt from the lobby."
Jeanette Grenz doesn't remember whether it was the look on her husband's face or the noise from behind that caused her to turn around.
"But when I looked, the skywalks were breaking in half and falling down and people were trying to hold on but were falling off," she said. "Next thing I remember is steam of some kind pouring from the wall where the skywalks had broken away.
"I don't remember hearing any screams, but my mind must have blocked them out because Ken says he heard lots of screams and moans."
The Grenzes went to their car and left.
Jeanette Grenz closely followed subsequent newspaper and TV coverage of the collapse, and has kept the newspapers.
"I seemed to have a need to know all the stories of the people who died and the people who were trapped for hours but survived," she said. "If our timing had been just a little different, it would have been us who were on or under the skywalks."
Later, the Grenzes each received a check for $1,000 after signing a form promising not to pursue legal action against anyone involved.
"We had to prove that we were there," Jeanette Grenz said. "They interviewed Ken and me separately to see if our stories matched. I also had kept the parking ticket from the Hyatt parking lot from that night since I hadn't needed to turn it in."
She said the woman who interviewed the couple told them many more people had claimed to be at the Hyatt that night than could have possibly been there, so she appreciated hearing a truthful story from people who were there.
The aftermath
Nearly 2,000 survivors and relatives of those who died in the Hyatt collapse filed claims that resulted in the payment of more than $120 million in settlements.
Ultimate responsibility for the collapse was fixed on two structural engineers who designed the faulty skywalks.
The Hyatt's third-floor skywalk, which was not in line with the others, did not collapse but was taken down soon afterward. The hotel reopened in October 1981 with one skywalk, a wider, second-story span.
Sangalang, who plays for a Topeka band, Mariachi Habanero, returned to the Hyatt a couple of years ago. She said the experience was thought-provoking but not as traumatic as she expected it to be.
Cuevas continues to play with Mariachi Estrella. She says her love of music motivated her to reform the band. She prefers not to talk about her experience at the Hyatt.
"I never would want to go back," she said.
The Grenzes later lived in Topeka and Holton, and now reside at Spring Hill in Miami County.
Jeanette Grenz said thoughts about the Hyatt collapse resurface whenever she sees news coverage of such events as the Oklahoma City bombing or the collapse of a dance floor that killed more than 100 people this year in Israel.
Ken Grenz said he doesn't often think about "that seemingly perfectly wonderful night suddenly turned so horrible. Sometimes it seems that the effect is all but gone."
Then, Grenz said, he saw video of the wedding dance collapse. "As the floors collapse on the television screen and the revelers' laughter turns to shrieks, I realize once more that even after two decades, a vestige of that night can still be suddenly re-ignited in my heart."
News video of the aftermath:
Photos of the 'failed components':
I never heard of this. Horrific!
Oh my gosh, I was *just* thinking about starting a thread on this myself.
Death Hag telepathy!
I remember that very well - it was HUGE news at the time. Gruesome and tragic at the same time.
Thanks Nessa! I was thinking about this tea dance collapse just yesterday, for some reason. I did not recall where it happened but remeber the word "TEA" being in the article.
Man, that was way back in 1981? Gah, I'm old!!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. --Oscar Wilde
I remember this like it was yesterday...20/20 or one of those shows actually broadcast someone's footage of the disaster. Awful thing.
I vaguely remember the incident. That must have been terrifying, to have the floor just disappear from under you like that.
You can't get there from here. http://eclectech.co.uk/mindcontrol.php
The actual footage of this event was featured on a television show called "Disasters" or something to that effect. I remember watching the "collapse footage" on tv as late as last year. I also saw the interviews with the people who were there, and some had just stepped off the walkway, or had just moved from under it. I think several people had massive head and neck injuries from the walkway.
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"Never go to bed with anger in your heart." ~ Seagorath
I saw it on a TV show too where they focused on the poor design on the walkway in general and the joints on the members supporting the walkway. When they go into analysis you shake your head and wonder what robot allowed this to be built. i love engineers but some get lazy and don't check the numbers.
I am a sick puppy....woof woof!!!
Carping the living shit out of the Diem. - Me!!
I love this program! Seconds to Disaster, I think. The other one I particularly like is the one about the multiple-story mall in Seoul. The Sampoong Department Store. To think, most of these disasters could have been avoided, but there was some serious groupthink involved in the majority of them. It must be a bitch to be an engineer! So much is riding on your calculations.
You were born with an asshole, Doris! You don't need Chuck!
I definitely remember that one, but I had forgotten how many
died. Sad stuff.
Great Post Nessa,-Sad Story
Seconds to Disaster is probably my favorite show. I can only get it on You Tube though. What channel is it on?
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
Bumping up this story after reading the thread on the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire. This tragedy happened a few years after and had many similarities - people dressed up, out for a fun evening at a very nice place, losing their lives because safety issues were ignored.
I moved to the KC area a couple of years after this happened. There was still a lot of news coverage about the survivors, lawsuits and families who lost loved ones. A friend of mine dated a young women (early 20's) who lost both parents that day. She had gotten a hefty settlement, lived in a nice condo and drove a fancy car, but she was emotionally devastated by it. She was very depressed, in counseling, going to church a lot.
I visited the KC Hyatt many times when I lived there. It was a beautiful hotel, had some great restaurants and shops. It was right next to the corporate headquarters for Hallmark Cards. There were no signs of the disaster, except the remaining walkway had columns supporting it.
Link to Seconds from Disaster video
Here's a link to a 2008 article about survivors trying to get a memorial plaque placed at the site to honor the victims. Sad that the hotel and Hallmark have done so little to honor their memory.
But for people like Brent Wright, it can never be forgotten. On July 17, 1981, Mr. Wright was 17 years old and working the loading docks at Macy's, saving money for college, when he heard a radio bulletin about the hotel's skywalk collapsing into a swing dance in the lobby. He tried to call his mother, Karen Jeter, wondering if she knew anyone there.
There was no answer.
"My mother was the talker, the hugger," Mr. Wright, now a 45-year-old lawyer, said as he fought to choke back tears. "She liked popcorn. She liked tennis. And she liked to dance."
Mr. Wright is a member of the Skywalk Memorial Foundation, which is leading a movement to build a memorial to the 114 people who lost their lives in the collapse, including his 37-year-old mother and her husband, Eugene Jeter. It was said to be the worst structural disaster in the nation's history.
After 27 years, there is not so much as a memorial plaque to commemorate the tragedy. "It was fresh for a very long time," Mr. Wright said. "It has taken this long for people to work through the grief."
The foundation is raising money to build a garden and a fountain in Washington Square Park, about a block from the hotel, dedicated to the victims and survivors of the collapse, along with those who helped with the rescue. In a significant boost for the plans, the Hallmark company, which owns the hotel site through a subsidiary, has pledged $25,000 toward the cost, and the city has agreed to put up $100,000.
Last edited by Demgirl; 06-17-2010 at 11:47 AM.
I remember the news coverage of this so vividly! I was spending the summer with my grandmother, and she let me watch all I wanted to because it was news. She'd rather me work on haggery than watch "that shit" like the Monkees. I was a wee bit reluctant to use walkway-type structures for quite a while.
She lived outside of Boston, and would occasionally talk about the Cocoanut Grove fire. Coincidentally, I was at her house for a funeral when The Station nightclub fire happened, and that's all that was on tv for days, it seemed.
I will never forget this, because it happened on my birthday. So did the TWA Flight 800 tragedy.
That one didn't load for me for some reason. Or it took too long and I just don't feel like waiting, lol. In any event, if the same is true for other folks, here's the docu on youtube in five parts:
One of my university professors was there on a date when this occurred. It was his first date with the woman who later became his wife. Talk about having mixed emotions about something!
It's been 30 years ago today that this tragedy happened. I was living in Kansas City at the time, and was watching TV when the station broke in to report this disaster. Almost immediately, all the local television stations and radio stations were giving what information they could. All that was known at the time was that the skywalks had collapsed, and there were hundreds of people in the ballroom for a tea dance when it happened. The Red Cross was asking for people to come right away to give blood, and they had no idea how many were injuried. They did know there were fatalities, but not how many. The rescuers and medical personnel worked frantically to get to everyone as soon as possible. The tons of concrete made everything even more difficult.
Two of my neighbors had been to the hotel a few days before, as they wanted to see it since it was nearly brand new. They mentioned that they walked across one of the concrete skywalks, but it made them nervous. It moved when they walked, due to being suspended, so they took another route to get back down and didn't get on it again. However, no one thought something horrible was going to happen.
My heart goes out to all who died, their loved ones, all who were injuried, their families, and everyone affected. It was just a terrible tragedy.
Wow, this is from 20/20. Actual video immediately after the accident happened. Footage starts about 3:22. it's pretty damn graphic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKojuChxNt8 I'm about halfway through. Interview with a doctor that had to make some hard decisions. Jesus. I'd never heard of this incident.
Last edited by dvz; 07-17-2011 at 08:19 PM.
Last edited by dia846; 07-17-2011 at 08:37 PM.
I saw a SFD on this story. Those skyways were death traps ready to happen.
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
It's been 30 years. I remembered something about walkways and I couldn't remember what it was. Thank you, Google! I found this site:
It makes me so mad when things like this could've been prevented, just like that wedding disaster in Israel.
There also is an "Engineering Disasters" episode about this incident (part of the "Modern Marvels" series).
"The present state of the world and the whole of life is diseased. If I were a doctor and were asked for my advice, I should reply, 'Create silence'."
-- Soren Kierkegaard
I am aware this post is dated, but I am very interested in this event after reading about it. I actually found a pictures from a rescue worker who was there, pretty awful stuff but fascinating at the same time:
Omg. I'd never heard of this.
That's going to give me nightmares for days.
You can't "nu uh" death. That's bad debating.
The video of the last survivor is hard to look at. He's on his stomach under debris and his back is broken. You can see his FEET facing forward over his shoulders!! The man operating the jackhammer didn't know he was down below. The poor man was screamin' his guts out and the jackhammer rammed through the space between his side and arm. The second time the drill broke through, it went between his legs. Fortunatly, they turned it off for a second and heard his screams. He survived the ordeal.
Can you imagine surviving the initial collapse only to thing you'll be jackhammered to death???
Some of the survivors were literally encased in corpses. The med folks had to cut through the bodies to free them.
Dancing, anyone?
Last edited by Nelliebean; 03-06-2012 at 01:22 PM.


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Human Rights in the Age of Obama
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Tanya: We know that bringing this movement to scale requires engaging people who may be inspired by the possibilities but insecure about their capacity to have an impact or intimidated by the enormity of the task at hand. What would you say to someone like that?
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Ajamu: I would ask them, do you believe in social justice? In democracy? In the possibility of individual, community, and societal transformation? If you do, you are a human rights defender.
We say that for everyone who believes in the possibility of real change, we can be that much more than what we have been.
Tanya: You speak of possibilities that many don't dare imagine. When has the human rights framework led to substantive improvement in the lives of everyday citizens?
Ajamu: We need only look back into the history of this country. The struggle for abolition of slavery was a human rights struggle. The struggle for women to be recognized as equal human beings and workers' struggles for a more dignified existence, including the demands for an 8-hour workday and protections against inhumane working conditions, were human rights struggles. Lesbians, gays, bi-sexuals and transgendered people's fight for dignity and equality are all are part of the struggle for human rights and human dignity.
It is no accident that the repression in the 1960s in the South led to the Alabama Christian Human Rights Coalition and the Human Rights Appeal, or that the themes of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference convention were around human rights.
The human rights movement has always been a part of the advancement of civil rights and democracy here in this country. We say, "from civil rights back to human rights" because it has always been about human rights.
Tanya: One of the key challenges of building the movement for human rights is helping people to connect the dots between the freedoms and rights they now enjoy, and may take for granted, and the movement for human rights. Given all of the challenges and opportunities of this moment, how does the Network do this work?
Ajamu: The coordinating office in Atlanta facilitates processes by which groups working on a range of human rights issues can come together in order to concentrate their power and advance their issues and campaigns. There are various ways we support the work, but we are guided by the principle that the people who are most impacted by human rights violations need to be at the center of the work. We believe that we can only realize human rights when there are links between civil and political rights and economic, social and cultural rights, and that the only way we'll advance collective human rights is through building social movements.
The human rights framework is an instrument that can help us all work together, recognizing that we're not going to be able to advance any of our individual issues or concerns without a more critical look at some of the systemic elements that are impacting all of us.
Another central campaign we are supporting is the Campaign for a New Domestic Human Rights Agenda, which includes the agenda we believe the Obama Administration needs to address. It includes the reestablishment of the Interagency Working Group, which will require that government agencies coordinate to ensure their practices are in line with the treaty obligations the U.S. has signed. We are also pushing for reinvigoration and expansion of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission—with a civil and human rights mandate, it could be the national institution that is needed to ensure that US practices at every level of government is in line with human rights values and obligations.
The Campaign is also calling on the Obama Administration to create a program of action to respond to U.S. lapses in implementing CERD, and to address issues of continued racial oppression in the United States.
There will be many challenges over the next few years as this economy continues to be transformed. This economy has already been earmarked to be a low wage economy, and the impact that will have on millions of people will be devastating.
We believe we have a real opportunity to advance demands for economic rights if we can show people that we have real opportunity for change at this point in history.
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There has been a gradual shift to more democratic, grassroots, base-building approaches and organizations. People like Cheri Honkala of the Poor People's Human Rights Campaign, Jaribu Hill, founder of Southern Human Rights Organizers, and grassroots community leaders across this country reflect the changing face of the domestic human rights movement.
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Tanya Dawkins interviewed Ajamu Baraka for YES! Magazine, a national, nonprofit media organization that fuses powerful ideas with practical actions. Tanya is executive director of the Global-Local Links Project, co-author of the 2009 U.S. Social Watch Report, Opportunity in Crisis: Navigating the Perfect Storm, and a YES! Magazine board member.
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Editor's note: Read a version of this story in Arabic
(CNN) -- Andy Murray became the first British man to win a Grand Slam final since Fred Perry in 1936 after defeating Novak Djokovic in the final of the U.S. Open.
The Scot even surrendered a two-set lead during a five-set thriller that lasted almost five hours, before he regained his focus to win 7-6 (12-10) 7-5 2-6 3-6 6-2 in swirling winds at Flushing Meadows.
It proved to be fifth time lucky for the Olympic champion, who -- like his coach Ivan Lendl -- had lost his previous four Grand Slam finals.
Murray will now replace the injured Rafael Nadal as world No.3 in the official men's rankings.
'Shocked' Williams wins U.S. Open final thriller
"They were incredibly tricky conditions. It was really tough because Novak is really strong and fights all the way," said Murray after the final.
"I have always had tough matches with him. I don't know how I managed to come through in the end."
With his support team in New York swelled by fellow celebrity Scots, Manchester United manager Alex Ferguson and actor Sean Connery, the 25 year old singled out Lendl, a three-time U.S. Open champion, for praise.
"He was one of the greatest," Murray said. "He has helped me through the tough times as have all of my team. It's the best feeling for me, I've had an unbelievable summer."
Murray put the bitter disappointment of losing this year's Wimbledon final against Roger Federer behind him by taking the Gold medal at the London Olympics at the Swiss star's expense -- a result many believed could be a turning point in the Dunblane-born star's Grand Slam fortunes.
But it was never going to be easy on Monday night.
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Though the momentum appeared to be with Djokovic, Murray refused to give up and summoned his earlier verve and aggression to put his visibly tiring opponent on the back foot once again.
Not even a late pause for treatment on the Serb's cramping leg could prevent Murray from closing in on the prize British tennis has coveted for 76 years, much to the delight of the crowd inside the cavernous Arthur Ashe Stadium.
When the final shot of the match -- a rasping forehand from Djokovic -- went long, Murray was left visibly stunned by his achievement. But he had finally overcome lingering doubts about his mental fortitude when it mattered most.
Despite his own disappointment, Djokovic was quick to pay pay tribute to his great friend and rival.
"It wasn't to be and I want to congratulate Andy on a first Grand Slam. He deserves it," said the Serbian.
"I tried my best and I gave it my all. It was another tremendous match and I am proud to have been part of it. It went to the last moment."


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I believe the most popular healing addons, at least among the healers I know, are Grid and Clique.
Grid is a raid frame addon that's heavily customizable as to how you want your frames, buffs and debuffs to appear. Many druids use it to monitor who has rejuv on them, etc.
Clique lets you rebind your abilities to mouse buttons with modifiers, so right click might be Rejuv, and Shift right click might be Regrowth or whatever. It lets you just clique on raid frames instead of having to click and then mash a key.


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Loris Resident Arrested for Income Tax Fraud
Columbia, SC (April 10, 2013) --- The SC Department of Revenue today arrested Andre Dayton Conyers for two counts of tax charges related to income tax fraud.
Conyers was charged with assisting in the preparation of a fraudulent income tax return and forgery. He could face up to 10 years in prison and/or up to $500 in fines if convicted of the two charges.
According to investigators, Conyers, 28, submitted a fraudulent W-2 form to a tax preparer in order to have a 2011 income tax return prepared and submitted to the SC Department of Revenue. Although he did not work for the employer indicated, Conyers' W-2 form alleged that he earned $15,300 in wages and had $688 in state taxes withheld.
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Andre Dayton Conyers is currently being held at the J. Reuben Long Detention Center in Conway where he is awaiting a bond hearing.
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What is the base dodge % chance now, 5%? I probably should know that off the top of my head, but I don't.
So this question has been bothering me: what difference does the changes to avoidance in 4.2 make? Does it buff Plate Tanks, nerf them (if only by a little bit). This is more curiosity than true need, but I figured it would be interesting to look at it.
Here are the proposed changes:
What we know:Stats
- Death knights, paladins, and warriors no longer receive any bonus to their chance to dodge from Agility. Their base chance to dodge is now a fixed 5%.
- Death knights, paladins, and warriors now receive 27% of their Strength bonuses as parry rating, up from 25%. This conversion still only applies to Strength above and beyond their base Strength.
- %Chance to dodge conversion from agility: 430.69 agility = 1% chance to dodge
- Dodge Rating conversion to Dodge Chance: 176.7189 = 1% chance to dodge.
- Parry Rating conversion to Parry Chance: 176.7189 = 1% chance to parry.
- Parry Rating conversion from Strength: Strength/4 = additional Parry Rating
- Any buff that effects Agility and Strength adds chance to dodge and parry, respectively.
- Dodge and Parry caps for diminishing returns are both 65.631440%. This is with 0% base dodge and parry.
- Dodge from Gear-Agility (enchants and stats) is subject to diminishing returns, while base agility, is not.
- Parry Rating received from Strength is subject to Diminishing returns.
- Diminishing returns equation: 1/x' = 1/c + k/x where x is the stat's %chance, k is a coefficient (static for all plate tank classes at .9560), c is the cap for x, and x' is the new %chance.
- For consistency, if the DR formula spits out an x' that's greater than x, we'll keep it as the minimum amount. This will probably happen with Dodge rating, and Agility, since we're dealing with rather low numbers.
- Base Dodge is 3.758% and Base Parry is 5%.
- Base Dodge is further increased by Base agility (any source for this? Paper doll says it is, but is it?). This makes it about 4.035%.
Source for numbers and DR equation: http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-c..._85_cataclysm/
- In 4.2, there is no dodge conversion from agility, and strength adds 27% instead of 25% parry rating.
- There is now a Stamina/Dodge rating leg enchant.
- Base Dodge is now a fixed 5%. (ty Wartotem)
Calculations based on my character:
This is my warrior: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...deese/advanced. Play nice.
He currently has:
Strength: 3464
Agility: 174 (119 base + 55 from leg enchant)
Dodge Rating: 1282
Parry Rating: 1757
According to the equations above, he should be receiving 866 Parry rating from Strength, which is 4.900% chance to parry before diminishing returns. He also should be receiving .128% chance to dodge from gear-agility, before diminishing returns. That is a total of 5.304% avoidance from Primary Stats, once again, before diminishing returns.
Kings and Battle shout increases my strength to 4213.6, rounded up to 4214, and my agility to 759.15, subtracting base agility of 119, makes it 640.15, rounded down to 640.
This means that raid buffed, I receive 1053 parry rating from Strength, which is 5.960% chance to parry before DRs and 1.486% chance to dodge before DRs.
Take DRs into account, and now I have 5.693% chance to parry and 1.486% chance to dodge. Add the 4.035% base dodge chance.
So currently, I receive 11.214% avoidance from my primary stats.
My character in 4.2:
Stats will change!
Strength: 3464
Agility: 119
Dodge Rating: 1337 (cool!)
Parry Rating: 1826
Due to the changes in the patch, I will now receive 935 parry rating from Strength, which is approximately 5.291% parry chance before DRs.
Add buffs: 4214 strength means 1137 parry rating, approximately 6.434% parry chance before DRs. Post DRs, it's 6.104% parry chance.
But wait! There's more!
Don't forget that we also get the additional 55 dodge rating from the leg enchant. Translates to approximately .311% chance to dodge, which after DRs, is the same.
Edit: When I originally wrote this, I forgot about the added base dodge chance. Wartotem has corrected me, and in 4.2, my character now has 5% base dodge chance.
Edit: Fixed the total.
So, post patch, I receive a total of 11.415% avoidance next patch.
What this means:
Damn. I gotta stop making mistakes. Maybe I shouldn't do math. Who knows! This time was just a simple issue. When adding buffs in my 4.2 character, I forgot to use .27 as the coefficient for parry, and used .25. This little mistake is why we've been popping back and forth between a buff and a nerf. However, now I can say with 95% certainty (barring any other mistakes) that we have been buffed slightly.
Last edited by edeesis; 06-27-2011 at 02:50 PM.
To all the Tanks that gem Stamina: "It's not the magic attack that kills you, it's the physical attack before and after."
What is the base dodge % chance now, 5%? I probably should know that off the top of my head, but I don't.
An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer
Base dodge is something like 3,67%+ baseagi/430=4,01% in 4.2 they will change it to a fixed 5%.
So we loose about 1,48% dodge from agility but gain 1% in base value.
Lets take 4214 strength * 0,25=1053, 4214*0,27=1138 so we gain 85 parry ratings which is about 0,48% before DR
And now for the good part we get 55 dodge rating from the leg enchant that will give us 0,31% dodge before DR
So we gain about 0,3% avoidance and we get 1% dodge extra that isn't effected by DR and have the rest of the dodge ratings to be less effected by DR as well since there isn't the 1,48% from agi that was effected by DR. We just might have to rebalance our dodge/parry ratings for DR but thats easier to eyeball now as well.
Last edited by Bigbad; 06-26-2011 at 12:11 AM.
Base Dodge now is 3,758%
Base Agility does not add Dodge Rating.
Bonus Agility currently adds (hidden) Dodge Rating on a Agi * 0,4103.. scaling.
So with a new 5% base, your new avoidance should be 6,005% + (5% - 3,758%) = 7,247%
Patch 4.2 just gave you 7,247% - 7,183% = 0,066% avoidance extra
Note: Strength -> Parry Rating is already added on your paper doll/Armoury. So of your 1757 Parry Rating now, 866 is from strength.
The gain in Strength from the patch (935 - 866 = 69) would actually give you slightly more Parry, due to DR, but I assumed it to be the ame for simplicity. Agility gain does NOT add to Dodge Rating (although it's added to the DR formula), which is probably another reason it's so complex. If it said you got 41% of your Agility as Dodge Rating, the gear/buff choices would be a bit easier.
PS: The change is a gain for nearly all players, as those in lower gear don't miss out on the agi buff, and those in better gear get compensated in Parry (+base dodge) Overall win-win, and it keeps DR formulas easier.
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
Last edited by Bigbad; 06-26-2011 at 02:58 AM.
x' can't be greater than x at any practical point of application. The low points it is worth more simply due to the curvature of the equation. Since a real tank wouldn't be subject to having values of 1% or less delta in these values the equation holds true in practical application. And the maximum level of error at low values seems to be about 0.02%.
Last edited by Quinafoi; 06-26-2011 at 12:02 PM.
"In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.
To all the Tanks that gem Stamina: "It's not the magic attack that kills you, it's the physical attack before and after."
You seem to have 1053 parry rating both for your current and 4.2 setup while it goes from 25% to 27% strength>parry conversion. I doubt base agi will give dodge in 4.2 since agi in general won't give dodge then so to keep it accurate have 4,04% base dodge in current setup and 5% in the 4.2 setup?
Attention awesome people: can we get a new Avoidance macro to copy-pasta into our handy dandy macros?
/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5))
Should still work, its just some conversions and base values changing but you can still get the endresult
Any macro you are using today if it was correct before for calculating avoidance will still be correct in 4.2.
Here is my automatic scaling version which translates down to a 100% scale. Target a raid boss target dummy and it will it will do the 2.4% reduction to unhittable and 1.8% reduction to avoidance. Target a level 85 and it will have no reduction. It automatically scales based on your level and your target's level.
If you want to hardcode the target level, you can replace the UnitLevel("target") with the desired level, i.e. 88 for a Cataclysm Raid Boss.
Shield Tank (Non-Night Elf)
Shield Tank (Night Elf)Code:/run u,t=UnitLevel("player"),UnitLevel("target") if t==-1 then t=u+3 end ld,d,p,b,m=0.2*(u-t),GetDodgeChance(),GetParryChance(),GetBlockChance(),5 DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(format("Lvl: "..t.." Unhit: %.2f%% Avoid: %.2f%%",d+p+b+m+ld*4,d+p+m+ld*3))
Death Knight (Any Race)Code:/run u,t=UnitLevel("player"),UnitLevel("target") if t==-1 then t=u+3 end ld,d,p,b,m=0.2*(u-t),GetDodgeChance(),GetParryChance(),GetBlockChance(),7 DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(format("Lvl: "..t.." Unhit: %.2f%% Avoid: %.2f%%",d+p+b+m+ld*4,d+p+m+ld*3))
Druid (Any Race)Code:/run x="player" u,t=UnitLevel(x),UnitLevel("target") if t==-1 then t=u+3 end ld,d,p,m=0.2*(u-t),GetDodgeChance(),GetParryChance(),5 if UnitRace(x)=="Night Elf" then m=m+2 end DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(format("Lvl: "..t.." Avoid: %.2f%%",d+p+m+ld*3))
Code:/run x="player" u,t=UnitLevel(x),UnitLevel("target") if t==-1 then t=u+3 end ld,d,m=0.2*(u-t),GetDodgeChance(),5 if UnitRace(x)=="Night Elf" then m=m+2 end DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(format("Lvl: "..t.." Avoid: %.2f%%",d+m+ld*2))
Last edited by Quinafoi; 06-27-2011 at 11:28 AM. Reason: minor syntax correction in DK/Druid macros
"In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.
Last edited by edeesis; 06-27-2011 at 02:54 PM.
To all the Tanks that gem Stamina: "It's not the magic attack that kills you, it's the physical attack before and after."
Looks good now
My napkin math shows a slightly larger gain, probably has to do with the way we approach DR.
We gain 0,96% dodge unaffected by DR
We gain 0,31% dodge & 0,48% parry effected by DR and loose 1,48% dodge effected by DR
Assuming we would rebalance to our prefered dodge-parry ratio for Hold the Line we can just treat dodge & parry as the same
We loose 0,69% avoidance effected by DR
Depending on the gearlevel our DR is somewhere between 0,7-0,8% avoidance for the last 1% before DR (using the value for the last percent and not the average). Lets take 0,75%
We loose about 0,52% avoidance after DR (0,75*0,69=0,5175)
Total gain 0,96%-0,52%=0,44%
Edit: Now that i think about it the rebalancing of parry & dodge will effect the total avoidance a little bit since as warrior our parry DR will be higher then dodge DR, since we would reforge some parry into dodge to account for the loss of dodge we would gain some avoidance cause of the lesser DR on dodge but loose some HtL uptime but thats all very minimal so lets not make it too complicated
Last edited by Bigbad; 06-28-2011 at 01:56 AM.


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The big ooze doesn't hurt very much after the first merge. Every time it merges it gets a stacking damage buff. You can tank it a bit to build aggro when it first merges into the big ooze... just be careful.
I usually vigilance the MT and taunt spam it. I was having trouble as well until I tanked it a bit (like 3-4 gcd's) when it first merges. After i tank it a bit I intervene someone to get out of range.


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Starfires claim outright ACAC title
WOODBURN – It's official. After coming close on several occasions, South Adams finally has its hands on an outright Allen County Athletic Conference wrestling championship. The Starfires, regular season champions with a 7-0 mark, scored 221.5 points Saturday in the conference tournament at Woodlan, outdistancing second place Garrett by 31 points and wrapped its hands around both conference trophies – with no one else hanging on.
"It looked a little shaky early on in the day, but we came back toward the wrestlebacks and scored some big wins and some big falls,†said South Adams coach Eric Myers. "I'm happy with the win, but we're g...
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Just like fad diets for humans, popular diets for your pets come and go. However, there's one particular pet diet trend that gives us pause: ASPCA experts say raw food diets for pets that include raw meat, eggs and milk may be dangerous for your furry friends. We typically recommend that pet parents opt for well-balanced, high-quality commercial and cooked foods instead.
The American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) agrees. In studies published in AVMA's journal, homemade and commercial raw food diets for dogs and cats were found to contain dangerous bacteria like E. coli and Salmonella, just to name a few. Other tests showed that unprocessed food diets can lead to nutrient deficiencies or excess that can cause serious illnesses in pets. Also, pets chewing on raw bones can lead to obstruction or perforation of their gastrointestinal tracts, and fractured teeth.
If you don't want to feed your dog or cat a commercial diet, consider a homemade diet that will diminish the risks of foodborne illnesses. These meals should be thoroughly cooked and need to be formulated by a veterinary nutritionist or by your veterinarian to make sure they're nutritionally sound.
If you are passionate about feeding your pet raw foods, please consider the following tips.
- Work with your veterinarian to ensure that your pet's diet is nutritionally balanced.
- Avoid feeding raw foods in homes with babies and toddlers (who put lots of things in their mouths), the elderly and those with compromised immune systems.
- Practice regular hand washing before and after feeding pets.
- Practice appropriate disposal methods when cleaning up pet feces.
For more information about pet-safe diets, consult your veterinarian and check out our complete list of people foods that are dangerous to pets.
Tell us in the comments below: Do you feed your pet raw foods or a homemade diet?
I too am switching to raw meat diets for my two small dogs. a male fox terrier and a female rat terrier, Major and Bella. Major was diganosed with diabetes a month ago and he is not taking the two shots of insulin twice a day very well, too stressful for both of us. He has lost weight and lost his energy for awhile and is becoming very aggressive with me. I have been giving them some meat on and off, not totally raw but rare and they love it. He is getting his energy back but still aggressive everytime he sees me approaching him with the syringe. I have done some research and so I am trying the raw meats and hopefully it will regulate his blood sugar so I won't have to give him two shots a day for the rest of his life.
We just started our Doxie Terrier mix on a Raw Food Diet. Stella and Chewy's brand and so far she eats it and is doing good. She is so finicky about canned and dry anymore that we had to try something. There is a Pet food store close to where my son works and it is all Raw for all kinds of Pets. They also have it frozen or freeze dried and every thing is tested out for everything. We will continue as long as it makes her happy.
The article links to other articles that do indeed contain facts and scientific research. Your post however is nothing more than anecdotal evidence and assumption. "It's the reason so many pets have health issues today!" - have you verified this with a double blind experiment?
You need to understand that much of the "research" being done is by corporations funded by the conglomerates pushing out crap processed dog foods. MANY veterinarian schools are funded bu Hill's Science Diet...which is why Vet schools have little to no focus on diet, and so many vets recommend that brand even though it's complete garbage. Before you believe "scientific facts" spewed by large corporations, think about our own stupid government and their CRAP food pyramid, which has been one of the major causes of obesity rates in the US!!! Grains were NEVER meant to be the base of the human diet, are you kidding me??? Countries that have a diet based on VEGETABLES with little to no grain consumption are completely FREE of diseases like Crohn's disease and Celiac Disease, yet our government refuses to tell the truth about what we should be eating. Do we need more research done before we can completely say that raw diets are good for our pets? Absolutely. But it's hard to accomplish this when the "big money" is only funding research that spreads lies and keeps them in business. Food for thought.
Since to date to the best of my knowledge, no one has experienced any issues with diseases picked up from this raw food, and at least 119 people have been hospitalized from salmonella from kibble. How do you and the vets answer this question. Most of the information vets receive today on nutrition in vet schools comes from the big dog food companies. Do you think those companies are going to say that raw food is better?
Is millions of years of wolves eating prey(ie) raw meat and bones
a FAD??
Or thousands of years of dogs eating prey (raw meat and bones) a FAD?
How about we look at all the contamination of Kibble that has led to countless illnesses and yes, even deaths of pets and people.
Human ancestors also ate raw food, but thanks to the invention of fire and learning to cook our food (in addition to other advancements), we now have longer life spans. "How about we look at all the contamination of Kibble that has led to countless illnesses" - this is nothing more than a straw-man argument. The contamination of Kibble has nothing to do with whether or not it is safe to feed animals raw food.
"Since to date to the best of my knowledge, no one has experienced any issues with diseases picked up from this raw food" - your anecdotal evidence does not supersede the scientific research mentioned in the post and the articles link within the post.
"Most of the information vets receive today on nutrition in vet schools comes from the big dog food companies." - the information regarding feeding animals raw food in the article and linked articles come from peer-reviewed scientific research. If you've ever known a scientist, you'll know that they love proving someone wrong. To date, no one has proven that feeding pets raw food is safe.


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Investigative Reports: Stolen Identities DVD
Sale Price: $19.99
To Order by Phone Call 1-800-933-6249
- Additional Details
- Format: Color, DVD-Video, NTSC
- Rating: Not Rated
- Number of Discs: 1
- Run Time: 50 Minutes
- Region: Region 1
- Aspect Ratio: 1.33:1
- Language: English
- Studio: A&E Home Video
- DVD Release Date: March 29, 1999
This is a chilling look at a fast-growing crime where the victims are often treated as if they were guilty!
It is a crime that increased more the 350% in the first six months of 1996 alone. A new breed of criminals has discovered how to exploit the information that identifies people to tap their assets and wreak havoc on their lives. Stolen identity, identity fraud, identity theft--all are new terms coined to label a crime wave that is costing millions of people more than money.
In this chilling program, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTSTM reveals how a stranger can assume your identity without even having access to "confidential" information like your social security number, birthdate or credit card details. And if they do get their hands on such information, it can be a "gold mine" for a thief, according to Kelli O'Neil, a California investigator who pursues these crimes. Experts reveal how aggressive solicitation by agencies extending credit to consumers has helped create this crime wave, and how the defrauded victims are treated like criminals when they discover the fraud and try to report it and re-establish their credit.
Filled with interviews with investigators, victims and officials, this is a chilling look at the new wave in crime.


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Shows designers how to create interactive publications for tablet devices using Adobe InDesign and the Adobe Digital Publishing Suite.
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On this week's Beatles Minute, Andre Gardner discusses possible John Lennon stamps, the Grammy Salute's Billboard bump and more Beatles news.


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Jets claim second straight ACAC title
Doug Schultz left the Allen County Athletic Conference wrestling tournament seed meeting last Monday night knowing that his Adams Central squad was going to need a solid effort from top to bottom to clinch its second straight conference title.
Mission accomplished.
The Jets placed all 14 of their wrestlers, the only other team to accomplish that feat was Leo, but Adams Central blew the Lions away in pin wins 20-12. Central finished with 242 team points, 22 ahead of Leo, and 40 ahead of South Adams.
"We told them it would take a team effort, and we told them we thought we would win the tournament on depth," said Schultz. "We won by 22 points, which is a pretty narrow marg...
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Lacina Charm Pendant Necklace
A beaded chain charmed with the tassel trend.
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ABC's 'Jimmy Kimmel Live' - Season 11
Imagens semelhantesVer tudo
Emmy Awardnominated 'Jimmy Kimmel Live' airs every weeknight packed... Fotografia de notícias 159593096Arte, Cultura e Espetáculo,Atleticismo,Califórnia,Celebridade,Comediante,EUA,Feature,Hollywood,Horizontal,Humor,Hóspede,Interest,Jimmy Kimmel,Jimmy Kimmel Live,Lotado,Mixed,Músico,Packed,Pessoas,Programa de Televisão,Prémios Emmy AwardsPhotographer Randy HolmesCollection: Disney ABC Television Group 2013 American Broadcasting Companies, Inc.JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE - Emmy(r) Award-nominated 'Jimmy Kimmel Live' airs every weeknight (11:35 p.m. - 12:41 a.m., ET), packed with hilarious comedy bits and features a diverse lineup of guests including celebrities, athletes, musicians, comedians and humorous human interest subjects. The guests for TUESDAY, JANUARY 15 included actor Rob Lowe ('Prosecuting Casey Anthony'), professional baseball player Bryce Harper (The Washington Nationals) and musical guest BigBoi with Phantogram. (Photo by Randy Holmes/ABC via Getty Images) BIG BOI, PHANTOGRAM


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Chickenpox (varicella). Centers for Disease Control and Prevention website. Available at:
Updated April 25, 2013. Accessed May 30, 2013.
Memish ZA, Oni GA, Bannatyne RM, et al.
The cost-saving potential of prevaccination antibody tests when implementing a
mass immunization program.
Mil Med
. 2001;166(1):11-13.
Ronan K, Wallace MR.
The utility of serologic testing for varicella in an adolescent population.
. 2001;19(32):4700-4702.
This content is reviewed regularly and is updated when new and relevant evidence is made available. This information is neither intended nor implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider prior to starting any new treatment or with questions regarding a medical condition.
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Chickenpox is a virus that spreads easily to others. It creates a widespread, itchy rash. The infection can also cause serious complications in some people....
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Maria del Carmen is an 8-year-old sponsored girl who lives near San Salvador, El Salvador. She is in second grade and dedicated this poem to all the sponsors who participated in the June mission awareness trip to El Salvador.
Aug 13 2009
That was beautiful! Thank you for sharing this. Not only is that poem wonderful, but Maria tells it in a wonderful way, full of personality. Thanks again.
We were honored and privileged to view the beautiful poem of hope in the June mission awareness trip. Maria did an outstanding job that day, and I was so proud of her and all the kids and parents who shared their stories with us. I feel grateful to have had the opportunity! God Bless you all.


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| Causes
| Risk Factors
| Symptoms
| Diagnosis
| Treatment
| Prevention
Jock itch is a fungal infection of the skin on the groin and inner area of the thighs. The medical name for jock itch is
tinea cruris
Common fungus organisms that grow best in warm, moist areas cause jock itch. Fungus can be transmitted from one person to another by:
Hot, humid conditions can increase your risk of jock itch. Other risk factors include:
Both men and women can be affected. The condition is more common in men, especially those who perspire heavily.
Jock itch causes a chafed, itchy, and sometimes painful rash around the groin and thigh. The area near the anus may also be affected. The rash is:
Jock itch can usually be diagnosed based on the appearance and location of the rash. Other skin problems may look similar to jock itch. If you are not certain of the diagnosis, contact your doctor.
Copyright © Nucleus Medical Media, Inc.
The doctor will ask:
In some cases, your doctor may order a lab test of the infected skin area.
Over-the-counter antifungal creams can usually treat jock itch. Creams or lotions work better on jock itch than sprays. In severe or persistent cases, your doctor may prescribe stronger creams or oral medicine. Use your prescription for the entire time that your doctor recommends. This will help prevent the rash from returning. If your rash does not go away within a month of treatment, call your doctor.
Antifungal creams for jock itch include:
All of these medicines can effectively treat jock itch. Some (such as terbinafine, naftifine, butenafine) may work faster, but are often more expensive.
Creams are usually used for 2-4 weeks. Follow the instructions given on the package or by your doctor or pharmacist.
Do not use antifungal creams recommended for
athlete's foot
. These may be too harsh for the groin.
If the rash doesn't improve with the cream, your doctor may need to prescribe an oral medicine.
Call the doctor if the rash begins to ooze. The rash may be secondarily infected with bacteria. If your doctor confirms this, you may be given an antibiotic.
These steps can also help to treat jock itch:
Take these steps to help prevent jock itch:
Last reviewed December 2013 by David L Horn, MD, FACP
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New Arrivals
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Zenergy Isadora Tee
Studded sparkle and a print that pops on a chic Zenergy top.
- Mixable, matchable, cozy-chic Zenergy®: live in, lounge in, love.
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- 100% polyester.
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