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install the head gaskets clean and dry on clean dry oil free surfaces.
New GMPP head bolts are only $20. Coat the threads on the new GM head bolts with black Permatex.
Well due to a really crappy bonus I could not get new aluminum heads. So I dropped off my cast iron heads at the machine shop for a full clean up and valve job.
When I put the heads back on do I need to use a gasket sealer or do I just bolt on the heads with the new head gasket?
You're far away from compression requiring premium unleaded with this engine and its original cam. To get into compression ratios requiring premium fuel you'd need to change to a flat top piston along with small chambered head.
I'm basicly looking to just get it back to the way it was at this point. If I send out the heads for a full valve job I will be down for a week. If I buy new heads I will be down for just a weekend. That's really the reason I'm considering getting new heads.
|This is in a 71 Toyota Land Cruiser 4x4. I drive it daily and the factory 290 hp is more than enough power.
if you are using this in a truck or 4x4 and want to use 87 octane keep the cr 8.8:1 or less.
if you are using this in a truck or 4x4 you got the wrong cam for the job.
if what you really want is a more torqey engine overall. replace the 350-290 cam.
Its a bad choice in a low compression engine .. Keep the cam choice mild.
but you can combine a mild cam with headers, head porting and a better intake etc, to good effect.
87 octane will only allow so much practical compression ratio.
The thickness of the new gasket is the primary concern. thicker than the original will lower the compression ratio.
Keep the real measured cr less than 9.20:1 for 87 octane. the mild compression ratio limit dictates a mild/moderate cam.
pretty much any all mild moderate cams will be an improvement over the 290hp cam.
The 290hp cam is not a bad cam, its just a bad cam in a low compression ratio engine. (unless you got a blower or a turbo)
But advanceing this cam by about 7-8deg helps, as the intake valve closes sooner.
Degree it first. then adjust its installed position. "cam phasing"
if you want to juggle the engine compression ratio yet stay using 87 octane gas then being accurate matters.
So first you must measure the real compression ratio of your assembled engine using all the critical factors.
The adv cr is 8.5:1. the real cr is probabily lower than that.
Measure what you got , first. Now you will know how much to change the chamber volume.
keep it 9.20:1 or less for 87 octane.
If you are willing to run 92 octane gas you can run a 10:1cr.
No, a high compression ratio engine will not work on 87 octane.
87 octane gas is for driving back and forth to work.
A engine cannot be a low compression and a high compression engine at the same time.
There is no free lunch.
|If I mod the heads and raise the compression ratio or get new 64cc heads will I still be able to run normal 87 octane unleaded?
The 290 horse crate engine has a serious miss-match between the camshaft and the heads. A lot of cam duration with a late closing intake valve against low (really low) compression ratio. These leaves a lot of power and a lot of fuel economy on the table.
A set of L31 Vortec heads makes this a 330 horse motor with no other changes. Certainly milling the heads you have say .030 inch and using a Fel Pro rubber coated .015 shim gasket part number Q1094 will help some by bringing the CR up. This doesn't bring the better combustion chamber, spark plug location and porting of the L31 so it isn't going to gain anywhere as much with just increasing compression with the heads you have, but it will be noticeable.
This engine doesn't need fancy head gaskets like MLS or copper. These are things for very high compresion ratios and/or the use of aluminum heads where the gasket needs to deal with being sandwiched between metals of quite different thermal expansion ratios.
The stock bore gasket like the mentioned FelPro use a 4.1 inch bore, this is plenty. You're walking a line where you don't want the compressed gasket hanging an edge into the chamber, nor do you want a large space that increases chamber size thus reducing compression ratio and traps a lot burnt gases that contaminate the fresh charge with unburnable fumes.
The rubber coated shim will work just fine as long as the mating block and head decks are flat, clean and undamaged, and you take care to chase the female head bolt threads in the block and clean the bolts themselves. Assembly requires a sealant that prevents coolant from getting into the threads, it will corrode them and leak coolant along the bolt shanks into what ever cavity the bolt passes. The bolts also require a lubricant on the threads and under their heads to get proper torque readings which are essential to getting even clamping forces on the head that don't cause it to warp resulting in the head gasket leaking. The answer here to both needs is found at the home improvement center as plumber's pipe thread sealant with Teflon. This stuff doped on the bolt threads and I like to paste it into the female threads of the block so the entering bolt pushes the sealant/lubricant ahead of it such that the bottom of the bolt is sealed against the coolant even getting a little way up the threads. The Teflon sealant also has about the same lubricity as engine oil that is specified for torque values of the factory head bolts (aftermarket bolts like ARP use a different alloy in the bolts that require a proprietary sealant and lubricant thus they use torque values differnt from the OEM bolts) DO NOT CONFUSE THIS. Factory OEM or OEM replacement bolts get Teflon Plumbers Sealant, speciality bolts like ARP get that manufacture's recommended most likely propietary sealant/lubricant. Getting this wrong most certainly will result in at least leakage and at most damaged to even destoryed castings.
You don't need to worry about plumber's Teflon thread sealant being pushed into the cooling jackets, unlike other curing compounds this stuff will remain soft and the action of the water pump will beat it into a fine suspension with the coolant so it will not plug cooling passages, unlike RTV.
Gen 1 Small Block Chevy 350 Head Gasket Question
Before you dump money into them worthless 76cc chamber heads that come on the 290 hp crate engine I would look for a better set of 64 cc chambered heads. These Summit Racing aluminum heads would be ideal for that 290 HP engine. Like was said you might want to change the camshaft too. It is a 11:1 compression Corvette camshaft from the sixties. you would see a big difference with this camshaft from Summit Racing.Summit Racing® Camshafts SUM-1103 - SummitRacing.com. Be sure to run the parts thru a compression calculator before you buy anything.
A .015" shim style gasket will get you a bit more compression ratio. and is as durable as any.
The thickness of the head gasket has no real bearing on wether the head gasket will fail.
The heads either seal or thye don;t. Detonation and overheating will blow out any gasket.
A smaller chamber cylinder head really kickes up he compression ratio on that motor to good effect.
The cam in that motor needs compression to work.
You can degree that cam too and adjust its phasing ( advance it) for more engine torque too.
Adjust the cam timing so the intake valve closes @ 38deg BTDC @.050" insterad of 46deg BTDC.
You can shave those heads down to the intake valve seat edge to get compression but a 58 to 64cc head really gets it done ( especially with porting)
if you have not ported those heads then most of a 3 angle valve job gain will not be realized.
Get the cr up as close to 10:1 as possible and port the heads and move the cama bit and it will be a whole different motor.
That cam was designed for a 11:1cr and a 4 speed transmsision (1969 corvette 350-350hp L-46)
It is a dud with low compression. GM phased it 1deg retarded 115-113 centers 114 LSA
advance it for 107-121 centers and 38-39deg intake closing point (.050" lifter rise)
Degree the cam and you will see what I mean.
A ported 4416 heads with 1.94 valves installed with a shim gasket (felpro 1094) is a favorite low cost hop up on that motor.
More flow+ more compression ratio.
Don;t be shy with the porting on either of these stock heads. You got to lean on that die grinder to wake them up.
Then a nice 3 angle valve job pays off.
Gen 1 Small Block Chevy 350 Head Gasket Question
So I am pulling my heads to send them out for a 3 angle valve job and I need recomendations on what is the best, longest lasting head gasket I should get. This is a stock 290hp gm performance crate motor with cast iron heads, a 4.00 inch bore and 0.028 inch compressed thickness.
I've been reading that I should look at MLS style gaskets.
Do I need to stick with a 4.00 inch bore gasket or can I get one thats a little larger so my choice of brand/style is better (if I can go a little larger then how much is too much)?
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Occupying a prime location on the Esplanade, this elegant hotel attracts many loyal guests who return to enjoy the relaxed atmosphere and attentive service. Bedrooms are both comfortable and smartly ...More about Hotel Elizabeth
Conveniently situated a short, level walking distance from the town centre, The Groveside offers boutique-style accommodation. A number of influences, such as art deco, have been used to impressive ef...More about The Groveside
This charming hotel is ideally located within walking distance of Sidmouth's elegant promenade and beaches. The spacious lounges and the cocktail bar open onto a terrace which leads to the pool and cr...More about Sidmouth Harbour Hotel
A family-owned and run hotel, the Langstone Cliff Hotel offers a range of leisure, conference and function facilities. Bedrooms, many with sea views and balconies, are spacious, comfortable and well e...More about Langstone Cliff Hotel
Overlooking the sea in the idyllic village of Beer, this perennially popular inn has a well deserved reputation for the warmth of its welcome and convivial atmosphere. A number of the well appointed b...More about Anchor Inn
Prominently positioned on the seafront just a few minutes' walk from the town centre, this traditional hotel has many returning guests. A choice of comfortable lounges provides ample space for relaxat...More about The Belmont Hotel
Overlooking the sea and close to the town centre, the Riviera is a fine example of Regency architecture. The large number of guests that become regular visitors here are testament to the high standard...More about Hotel Riviera
Situated in a peaceful location close to the beautiful east Devon coast, this family-friendly hotel is ideally placed for a relaxing break with plenty of attractions within easy reach. All bedrooms co...More about The Bulstone Hotel
This welcoming inn is just a short drive from the centre of Exeter and very convenient for access to the M5. Surrounded by rolling fields, this is an excellent base for exploring the East Devon coast,...More about Innkeeper's Lodge Exeter, Clyst St George

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[1 of 2 customers found this review helpful]
i love kol and have since before evryone figured out what a great band they were...only thing is i was with a few relatively new fans yet enthusiastic ones... i would just suggest they focus on their more popular songs not completely but enough because i enjoyed evry song but the people i brought to the concert with me felt differently...i would seee them evry time they come to my state and live they sound as good as recorded wich is refreshing these days with all the one hit wonders out there,,this band is here to stay for loong long time!
[2 of 2 customers found this review helpful]
When the concert started, one of the pyros didn't go off. No biggy. Everything else was great! They started with Crawl which surprised me, but went on singing/screaming. Caleb did apologize for the show being short. Not sure their shows seems real short. Would like to see their concert last a little longer than an hour. They have too many goodies to not play for their patiently waiting fans.
[5 of 6 customers found this review helpful]
They were simply awesome! The Comcast Center in Mass had some definite issues with parking, getting people into the place, etc.. but we got VIP tickets and the staff we dealt with was awesome! KOL were so great.. the fans around us ranged from Hard Core (knew every word to every song on all 4 of their albums) to brand new and really know only one song.. but everyong rocked with the band.. people were on their feet dancing all night.. tons of folks weathered the rain even! And KOL made it worth every second. They are perfectionists and it showed.. just a great show by a great band! I felt 10 years younger just being there!
Kings Of Leon Comcast Center Mansfield, MA
[11 of 38 customers found this review helpful]
This show was a nightmare. I was a really huge for of Kings of Leon but after the concert was over i realized they were not as good as i thought. Bad live music, they do not sound not even close like in there cd's, not impressive, not a fan anymore. Do not WASTE your money on this concert. Take care bye.
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I am going Contiki!
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Check out our comprehensive directory of East Falmouth hotels with quality, independent reviews. Search for an East Falmouth hotel by name, star rating, or user rating. Travel Library always lists the real direct contact details for every hotel in East Falmouth including email, Web site address, telephone and location address.
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Band of Brothers, Signed by Bill ''Wild Bill'' Guarnere with Relic
Sale Price: $169.50
To Order by Phone Call 1-800-933-6249
- Wild Bill was with the 506th Airborne Division who lit up the skies over Normandy at the close of WWII. Bill is in his late 80's and is as feisty as ever residing in South Philadelphia. Bill Guarnere along with his Band Of Brothers was depicted in the Hollywood movie Band of Brothers.
- This 8X10 photo was taken in the hours leading up to the assault on Normandy France on D-Day 6th June 1944 The framed photo houses an actual inert bullet from an M1 rifle used during the war
- This Limited edition print is elegantly matted in a quality wooden Frame and includes a Certificate of Authenticity
- This not only is an attractive piece of art .., it is also a tangible memento of American history
This photo represents a strategic moment in American WWII history and memorializes the American heroes who participated in the events leading up the Normandy D-Day invasion. Affectionately nicknamed Wild Bill because of his fierce determination to defeat the enemies of America. Wild Bills momentous role in and around D-Day was dramatized in the movie Band of Brothers and showcased him as one of the original members of the 101st Airborne Division. The 506th Airborne Division nicknamed "The Screaming Eagles" were young paratroopers whose regiment was known as Easy Company; the legendary division immortalized in the book Band of Brothers by historian Steven Ambrose.


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Here is the first DT Battle Report for the Tannhauser Blog, we're hoping to do more in the future.
This one is a bit short…
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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:22 PM
Here is the first DT Battle Report for the Tannhauser Blog, we're hoping to do more in the future.
This one is a bit short…
Posted 23 July 2012 - 06:40 PM
A much more in depth battle report…
Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:36 AM
great report. i like the update
Posted 26 July 2012 - 07:44 AM
Not a battle report but I didn't feel the need to start a new thread, I was going to change this thread topic, but I can't seem to find the button. Must have been removed or I'm crazy. (Edit: it only appears for the same five minutes after posting as the regular "edit" button, the weirdnesses of this fourm are many)
Anyway, here's some fun stuff to make with just the warzone tenement and some terrain tiles, and not much more.
Posted 26 July 2012 - 02:23 PM
Wow, thats a pretty good review on such a simple item. Maybe getting 2 would be a decent start to an entire village landscape
Posted 26 July 2012 - 04:36 PM
Yes, it would, I plan on picking up another when I get Cerberus next month or so. It includes a three story version. Also Zevrograd includes another single story. So you'll have a really good start on a small city, with all three.
Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:33 PM
New bits coming soon from Dust Models…
Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:05 AM
Seems a poor choice of weapons to me 6 panzerfausts to 1 MG and 1 Assault rifles, would have like to see the MG mount and scope for vehicles. Don't think I'l be getting these.
Posted 06 August 2012 - 09:25 AM
Too many Panzerfausts, too few sturmgewher 47/machinegewher 48. I'll get a couple of them nonetheless, if only to make a custom mini or two. I can totally see a commando-like hero with combat knife and a special issue sturmgewher with MG ammo clip (and maybe even a heavy duty panzerfaust ready for tasty targets).
The same weapon load should work well with those Heavy Laser Grenadiers I won't otherwise use at the table… yummy…
Posted 16 August 2012 - 10:30 AM
They look good but would like to see some new figures like the allies pack has.
Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:42 AM
Latest Dust Related News…
And the blog is changing it's name to Front-Toward-Enemy.US
Posted 22 August 2012 - 10:47 AM
Posted 22 August 2012 - 11:19 AM
New photos of all today's arivials…
Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:27 PM
More on the SSU…
Posted 11 September 2012 - 04:26 AM
Get your SSU Heros now!
(DT Standard Edtion SSU Hero Pack)
Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:49 AM
We need your help…
Please do what you can.
Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:42 AM
More on the Allied aricraft…
Posted 09 October 2012 - 03:06 AM
Get your Airborne Transports for the SSU…
Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:17 PM
A huge number of DT announcements:
Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:30 PM
Boobs and wrenches, the Axis aircraft work crew will be available from Dust Models…


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Sight-Seeing Tours Italy
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Sight-Seeing Tours Amalfi, Italy - private driver for transfer from/to airport train station Naples or Rome to Amalfi coast, Positano,Sorrento, excursions in Amalfi coast and Pompeii from our hotel o from cruise ship.Wine tour in Irpinia region and Vesuvius area.
Sight-Seeing Tours Bari, Alberobello, Polignano, Italy - Tour to: Bari - with its amazing old town and its alleys leading to St. Nicola's Basilica Alberobello - known worldwide as the "Trulli" capital. Polignano a Mare - with its wonderful "terraces" overhanging on the sea
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Sight-Seeing Tours Perugia, Italy - Let's cook in Umbria offers cooking classes, winery tours, gourmet tours, excursions to artisan chocolate and olive oil producers, truffle hunting and very popular cooking vacation programs that include accommodations and excursions to remote village
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Sight-Seeing Tours Taormina, Italy - 500 Vintage Tour is a self drive classic car tours specialized company, for independent travelers or escorted groups around Sicily. We offer classic car rental for tourism, company incentives, weddings. Pick up and drop off in Taormina and Etna area
Sight-Seeing Tours , Italy - Private Capri boat tours and luxury charters with expert captains, friendly & knowledgable guides, warm Southern hospitality at its finest! Private speed boat transfers in the Bay of Naples, Amalfi, Positano, Ischia. Welcome aboard Capritime Boats!
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Sight-Seeing Tours TORINO, Italy - Trekking con i dromedari e i muli nei deserti piu' affascinanti del mondo! Escursioni in 4x4 e in camper. Vieni con noi dal Sud Africa al Polo Nord e intorno al mondo er vivere affascinanti avventure.
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Officially official: Subaru leaving World Rally Championship
by Noah Joseph (RSS feed) on Dec 16th, 2008 at 9:58AM
Rally fans who were troubled by the rumors yesterday that Subaru was preparing to do the unthinkable and scrap its WRC team will be disappointed to learn that the speculation has proven to be true, as parent company Fuji Heavy Industries has announced it is pulling its participation effective immediately. Not unlike its fellow Japanese automaker Honda, which has canceled its Formula One program, Fuji Heavy points to cost-cutting measures amidst the current global economic crisis as its reason for canceling its motorsport program. Still, it's a shocking move for the automaker that earned its... Read More


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Tournament named in honor of Meyer
South Adams has named its girls' basketball tournament the Amy Meyer Holiday Classic in honor of the late standout basketball player. Meyer, a 1999 graduate of South Adams, is the second all-time leading scorer in Starfire girls' history and is one of only two girls to surpass the 1,000 point career scoring mark. She went onto play collegiately at IPFW and Saint Francis.
The tournament is scheduled for Friday, December 30 with four games. Blackhawk Christian and Eastside will meet in round one at 10 a.m. and South Adams will take on Anderson Prep Academy at noon. A consolation game will be played at 6 p.m. and the championship is scheduled for 8 p.m.
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At a glance: Asian Studies
Did you know? The Asian Studies Minor emphasizes language acquisition through coursework or study abroad opportunities.
The Asian Studies Minor offers students the opportunity to explore the cultures of this important area. Coursework can be taken in history, geography, music, religion, philosophy, business, and in sociology. ONU also offers language classes in Chinese and Japanese. This minor is vital for students who wish to work and live in Asia, as a student, a teacher, or an entrepreneur.
Degrees offered
ONU offers a Minor in Asian Studies, with a core of two years in either Chinese or Japanese, two history courses (either in Japanese or East Asian History), and Contemporary Asia. The final three courses are electives from the areas described above.


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Hermanny Ikat Bandeau One Piece
Brilliant colors turn up the heat on this sizzling ikat print bandeau, with an antiqued brass ring to open up the neckline and a plunging tie back. Ruched at the sides to create draping across the tummy, this strapless beauty accentuates the positive—and positively enhances the rest.
Bra cups have molded foam inserts.
Seamed elastic below bust provides lift and support.
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Signature antiqued brass tag at back.
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Self: 83% Polyester, 17% Spandex. Lining: 84% Nylon, 16% Spandex. Hand wash. Imported.
We're so sorry: this item sold out sooner than expected. For an equally comfortable substitute, please call our Solution Experts at 1.866.768.7662. Or click on Soma Chat below for immediate assistance.


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The fate of the 116 people on board an Air Algerie flight, has reportedly crashed in Mali, is still unknown. Take a look at the deadliest plane crashes in history.
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AirTran WILL leave you behind, and WILL kick you off a flight when they screw up
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BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS -- AirTran WILL leave you behind, and WILL kick you off a flight due to the incompetence of the people they hire. Let me explain: I took a flight out from Boston, ended up in the TSA security line for 45 minutes before I got completely through, and that included having to cut 3/4ths of the line when I realized I was cutting it pretty close to departure time. Showed up at the gate 3 minutes late; they left without me. They NEVER paged me, they NEVER sent someone to see if I was stuck in security. They also departed BEFORE their departure time (I screenshot the flight information at the end of the night from my phone as proof). Their staff had no interest in helping me upon realizing my flight left without me, and were genuinely uninterested in my situation. They offered no help, and basically told me, "too bad". They wouldn't even look at me when they talked to me - they were typing fast away at their computers. I left a BBB complaint about the incident and they are one of only two companies I've had to leave a complaint about that had no interest in making things right. They dismissed all my grievances to the matter and blamed me, under a guise of "we shut the doors 10 minutes before departure, as its important that we get our passengers in the air as soon as we can and prevent delays." Let me now explain to you how this is a complete farce. On the day of my rescheduled flights, on my connecting flight a flight attendant managed to get her seat wet from rain (I've flown plenty where it's rained and never heard of this happening). After we pulled out from the gate, we sit for a couple minutes and we hear the captain announce the aforementioned issue, and that they'd have to pull back in so they got "replace the seat". I think to myself, "Replace the seat? Why don't they just put plastic trash bags over it, or towels or something?" What they ended up meaning by that is that they were going to get an AirTran representative to board the plane and tell, not ask - but tell, a coach passenger they had to deboard the plane and be put on stand by. Then they told, not ask - told, a first class passenger they had to move back to the now empty coach seat. And the now vacant first class seat is where the flight attendant ended up sitting for the flight. If you make a complaint against them, they WILL lie about the details, and do what they can to not own up to their own mistakes. They claimed in their response to my BBB complaint that they confirmed that they did page me - lies - I listened intently out of worry that I was starting to cut it close and it never happened. Heard plenty of other airlines paging other passengers to other flights. I rejected their response, made a rebuttal, they then reiterated what they said the first time for the most part, and closed the case out with no consequence. Don't make the same mistake I did by flying with these guys. They gave me a bad experience the first time I flew with them 4 years ago, gave them another chance because the flight was that much cheaper, and I regret it. I lost more money in the day of work I lost in comparison to what I saved choosing them to fly with. Also keep in mind Southwest Airlines owns AirTran, so you may want to consider skipping them as well. You're a number to them. Well, this number is taking his business elsewhere. In fact I just booked a flight for next week and skipped over them despite seeing they had a cheaper flight in to where I was going. Not worth the risk.
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trmn8r on 10/05/2012:
How far ahead of flight time did you arrive at the airport? Was this a domestic or international flight? These are critical details.
A long wait at the TSA checkpoint in and of itself is not the airline's problem, and should not result in the airline looking to see where you are. On the other hand, if there was a 1 hour delay checking in at the counter with the airline, they should delay the flight to allow passengers to make their way to the gate.
The minimum time to get through security alone for domestic flights is 30 minutes, and the maximum is an hour, depending on airport.
CowboyFan on 10/05/2012:
Planes must have their door closed prior to departure so weight, fuel, and other issues can be calculated. That is one reason that one must arrived at the gate 15 to 30 minutes prior to departure time. No one is going to come get you, if you fail to show. The departure time is ideally leaving the ground, not shutting the door. If you arrive after the door shut, any airline will leave you.
The wet seat was a safety issue, which is why the plane reopened the door. Someone had to get off. The flight attendant may have had to be at that destination in order to have a full crew to fly her plane, so the airlines made a passenger get off.
Buddy01 on 10/05/2012:
Departure time does not mean you have until that time to board.
CUontheFlipSide on 10/05/2012:
It is pretty clearly posted at Logan Int'l that you should arrive two hours before flight time for domestic flights, and 3 hours for international. Most times you breeze through the security and have time to read a newspaper at the gate, then again there are times like this when you need that time to get to your flight. There are many variables that can cause security lines to back up, and none of them have anything to do with the airline.
Susan on 10/05/2012:
You missed your flight because you didn't arrive at the airport allowing enough time for security screening.
Josh on 10/07/2012:
Having to arrive several hours before your flight is the norm now. Having someone paged over the
Intercom is a nice customer feature, but the airlines through default probably assume that the passengers are full grown functional adults who have a basic understanding of time management and airline constraints (specially, since you mention that you have flown x times before). As far as being a a number, yes you were one of thousands of customers for that day and one of the hundred thousands for the year. Sorry to say, you are not 'that' special to most outside your personal
acquaintances circle.
Mike in FL on 10/09/2012:
As others have stated, this falls squarely on your head and nobody else's. YOU THE PASSENGER are supposed to take into account the time needed to get through security to get to YOUR flight on time. The airline is also beholden to those other passengers to get them to their destinations on time as well. Is it fair for YOU to cause another passenger to miss THEIR connecting flight at another airport? No, it's not.
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Never again
Posted by
AirTran airways is one of the worst airlines I have ever booked with. On my flight to San Francisco from La Guardia, via Oregon, on August 19, 2011, our plane taxied for 3 hrs (max allowed by law) before returning to the gate due to weather conditions in Oregon, which after deplaning for 30 min, was ultimately cancelled. In those 3 hours, they couldnât figure out how to reroute the plane that the storm eventually approached the NY metropolitan area. I proceeded to rebook my flight for the following Tuesday, according to the AirTran agent, the only flight available was from LGA to SFO via Atlanta with a 7-HOUR LAYOVER. In the days between my cancelled Friday flight and my new reservation on Tuesday, I called the airlines daily to find out if I can get an earlier flight Tuesday morning with a shorter connection. The agent I spoke to on Sunday, who was very helpful, said I can attempt to fly standby early Tuesday morning and advised me to be at the airport an hour before the departing flight (LGA to SFO via Oregon). I called AirTran again Monday to see if any flights had opened up, and if I could fly standby. This time the agent said NO, all the flights were sold out. He sounded irritated with me, and didnât even advise me to try to fly standby, nor did he even disclose to me any of the departing flights to SFOâjust a flat out NO. He didnât care and wasnât interested in helping me in any way. Well, I followed the advice of the first agent I spoke to on the phone and showed up early at the airport in hopes I could score a standby flight. When I inquired at the front ticketing desk at LGA, the AirTran agent said, âNO, I cannot put you on the standby flight to Milwaukeeâ (in contrast to what the first agent told me on the phone) because the reservation or connecting flight MUST BE identical; so instead, she puts me on later connecting standby flight to Atlanta. Well, I decided to see another agent, but this time at the gate. He was super helpful and put me on standby for the next flight to SFO, which happened to be the connecting flight to Oregon. By this time, I realize how inconsistent AirTran is with customer service and rules regarding flight reservations. And itâs absolutely frustrating. I get on the Oregon flight and personally thank the agent that helped me, and when I finally get to Oregon, and I think that after this whole ordeal I can finally make it home to San Francisco, our plane again is taxing on the runaway, this time a failure of the weather radar. Of course, the captain says âit takes a few minutes to replace then weâll be on our wayâ. 5 minutes later he states, the antenna failed and will take 2 hours to fix. ARENâT AIRLINES SUPPOSED TO DO MAINTENANCE CHECKS BEFORE DEPARTURE??? I finally make it so SFO with no problems afterward. With all said and done, the most pleasant aspect of AirTran is the stewardesses who were consistently friendly on each flight; however, it is not enough to choose AirTran again for my future travels.
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Anonymous on 08/27/2011:
The problem flying an LCC such as AirTran is when IRROPS (irregular operations) occur you can get stuck for days - esp since aircraft fly >80% full today. Legacy carriers (Delta, American, US Airways, United) have extensive networks and if required, endorse you to a competitor. LGA has a "perimeter rule" which does not allow flights over 1500 miles, thus no non stops to SFO exist. In this case it was false economy to try to save a few dollars when EWR, JFK both offer N/S to SFO on DL, AA, UA.
As far as maintenance checks, things break when they break. You can flip a light switch a 3 times in a day for years and one day, on the 3rd flip it could quit working.
trmn8r on 08/27/2011:
Who else but Bete Noir would know about the perimeter rule?
The three flip rule I AM familiar with. Excellent reply.
thelmalue on 08/29/2011:
I really don't think your complaint is about Airtran but their customer service. Flights get cancelled, sometimes making a horrible trip, but the airline's staff can make that inconvenience a tad bit better by being friendly and helpful. You should talk with their complaint line and tell them that although you can maybe understand the weather delays (because they cannot control that), the maintenance problems, or the silly perimeter rule; you can't excuse the terrible customer service by some of the staff, and that is ultimately the major factor in your decision to never fly Airtran again.
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Rude flight attendant
Posted by
I had never flown with AirTran before this flight, and will never fly with them again. The airline has a policy that prohibits more than
one child being held on the laps of adults occupying the same row. This policy exists because there are only 4 oxygen masks on each row, and in the event of an emergency, there would not be enough for each passenger. I completely understand and appreciate this policy. However....
My mother and I booked a non-stop flight from Atlanta to San Francisco a month in advance. We were traveling with my two children (22 months and 8 months), who, because they were under two years old, could sit in our laps, saving us the cost of extra seats. AirTran has a policy that there must be at least one adult per child under two, which we understood, and in order to help each other with the babies during the flight, we paid an extra fee to reserve our seats ahead of time (since AirTran typically assigns seats at check in).
I called the airline several days before our flight to let them know that we were going to be traveling with two children under two. She said there was no need for me to call, that they would take care of things at check in. No mention of their policy.
At check in, we informed the lady helping us that we each had a baby who would be sitting on our laps. We showed her their birth certificates, she entered them into the system, and wrote the age of one baby on each of our boarding passes, which also showed our adjacent seat assignments. She asked if we had any car seats with us, and we told her no. She said we were good to go. No mention of their policy.
At the boarding gate, an employee stopped my mother and me (each of us holding a child), inquired about the age of the children (we offered
to show him the birth certificates), at which time we pointed out that each child's age was written on the tickets (by your check-in employee). Our boarding passes, which he scrutinized, specified our adjacent seat numbers. No mention of their policy.
At the beginning of the flight, a male attendant stopped next to our row and asked if I had a baby in my lap, as she was nursing the baby and he could see only the baby's feet. I told him I did. My mother was sitting next to me with my 22-month old on my lap. No mistaking that there were two children on the same row. No mention of their policy.
The children were on our laps, in plain view, the whole time. We had already been served drinks at least once. Another flight attendant looked directly at us to get our drink orders. Again, no mention of their policy.
About an hour into the flight, my mother asked an attendant to take her used cup. The attendant turned to let her know that she wasn't collecting trash at that time, and when she saw us holding the babies, she asked, "Have you had both babies with you the whole time?" We couldn't figure out why she was asking us that. My mother said, "Yes, we have." The attendant pointed at my son and asked, "Where was he before?" "On her lap," I said, pointing to my mother. "And where was she?" the attendant asked, pointing to my daughter. "In my lap," I replied. "You can't have two lap babies on the same row," the attendant responded. This time we really were speechless. We just stared at her, completely at a loss. She repeated herself again, more loudly. I said, "No one told us that." She asked us whether no one had said anything at check in, and we said no. The attendant repeated a third time that we weren't allowed to have both babies on our laps in the same row. At this point, the attendant still had not told us WHY the children couldn't be on the same row, just that AirTran policy prohibited it.
The passenger next to me mistakenly thought the policy was because two children together might be
noisy or disruptive, and tried to defend us by saying that he had been a teacher for 40 years and was used to being around children. At this, the attendant raised her voice and said "Sir, I don't care what you did for a living, all I'm saying is that these babies cannot sit in these seats." Still at a loss as to what we were supposed to do about the situation 35,000 feet in the air, the attendant FINALLY told us the reason for the policy. My mother told her she would be glad to move if she could find someone to change seats with her.
The man next to my mother stated that he was comfortable where he was and didn't feel like moving, and the flight attendant told him not to be rude to her, she was just doing her job. She also informed him that babies can't sit in aisle seats, so she turned to the woman sitting in the middle seat of the adjacent row and asked her to switch with my mother, saying that she was trying to keep my mother and me as close as possible.
Someone across the aisle kindly agreed to do this.
The remaining 4 hours of the flight were miserable for us because of this unnecessary treatment by the flight attendant.
Here's what the flight attendant should have POLITELY said to us, and what I hope she'll say if this happens to other passengers in the future: "I'm really sorry, but it seems the airline failed to mention that we have a
safety regulation that doesn't allow more than one child to sit on an adult's lap in the same row. This is because there are only 4 oxygen masks
available in the event of an emergency, and right now there are 5 people in your row. I don't like to inconvenience you, but I'm going to have to ask
around to see if someone can change seats with you. Do you have any questions for me?" Instead,
the flight attendant made my mother and me feel like criminals, never once expressed regret or concern that we had not been informed of the
policy, or that we were being inconvenienced in any way. As a matter of fact, she offered the man next to my mother a refund for his ticket because he expressed exasperation with the whole incident! Outrageous!
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Starlord on 06/19/2009:
Federal laws prohibit chidren sitting on the laps of passengers for the same reason states have laws against children in the laps of people in cars. The UK did a test a number of years ago, where they had professional Rugby players holding weighted dummies that replicated a child in their laps while the drivers did various panic stops and such. Not one Rugby player was able to hold on to a dummy or keep it from any injury-producing mechanism. If a professional athlete can't do it in a car, what makes you think you can do it in a plane? They put those belts there and make you use them for a reason.
Disaster Worker on 06/19/2009:
I believe the OP has a ligitimate complaint as to how she was treated and even offered a better way of handling the situation. I'm a frequent flyer and didn't know about this rule. I agree with you Starlord about the safety issue, but the attendant could have used more tact than she did.
Disaster Worker on 06/19/2009:
I believe the OP has a ligitimate complaint as to how she was treated and even offered a better way of handling the situation. I'm a frequent flyer and didn't know about this rule. I agree with you Starlord about the safety issue, but the attendant could have used more tact than she did.
Anonymous on 06/19/2009:
The laws in the US allow for a child to sit in an adults lap on a plane, Starlord. That is not what the complaint is about. Parents here can put a child in a seat next to them, if they provide a FAA approved car seat for said child. Children below a certain weight can be held.
The issue here was oxygen masks, and should have been addressed BEFORE take off, not rudly during the flight.
spiderman2 on 06/19/2009:
Last time we flew I bought my little one his seat cost 1/2 of what ours did and it was worth every penny spent. First, he was much safer in his own seat in an FAA approved child seat and secondly, it was way more comfortable for all of us. Frankly, I don't want to sit next to someone with a nearly 2 year old baby in their lap on a crowded airplane! I do agree that this whole situation could have been handled much better on the part of the airline though.
barbie39 on 06/22/2009:
sorry you were with one at fault; you endaangered peoples safety; also wa it necessary to nurse in public; could you have not brought a container ;also youinconvenienced other passengers; iwould not have exchanged seats with you.
barbie39 on 06/22/2009:
sorry you were with one at fault; you endaangered peoples safety; also wa it necessary to nurse in public; could you have not brought a container ;also youinconvenienced other passengers; iwould not have exchanged seats with you.
auntieem on 07/05/2009:
Honestly, barbie39, if you can't type correctly, use correct grammar, or even proofread your own comments, your opinion doesn't even really matter- your comment was nearly illegible.
Airtran states clearly on their website that children under 2 can be held on the lap of another passenger. If they felt it was not safe, they would not allow it. Also, that information is there for other passengers to view, too, so if they don't want to sit next to a child, that is just too bad for them, as they know that there is a chance of it happening.
As for nursing in public- the person who made that comment must be a man. Women aren't going to just pull out their breasts and start nursing, if that's what you're afraid of. I'm sure she was covered while she was feeding her child. Would you rather have cheerios and prune baby food splattered all over you?
The bottom line- the flight attendant was downright rude, and despite being told that these people were quite willing to move, she had the nerve to further humiliate and berate them.
I've also had horrible experiences with Airtran, and I'm never planning on flying with them again. I'm sorry that I've ever recommended them in the past.
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Air Tran-Delayed for Eight Hours With No Explanation
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OTTAWA, KANSAS -- Last year my SO and I took a wonderful vacation to Cancun and to try and save some money we flew on Air Tran. Getting there wasn't terrible but getting back....worst experience with any airline I have ever had. On the day we were scheduled to go home we get to the airport to find our flight delayed. I was a bit frustrated but I figure it's a minor setback. Since Hurricane Karen was nearby I figure it's probably due to that and we just have to wait. We do go to the ticket counter for our gate to see if there is any info on our flight and we hear this, "I don't know." 2 hours go by and no plane. We ask again and we hear "I don't know." This process drags on for eight hours. Eight hours with no explanation for why our plane is delayed for that long. All we hear from the ticket agent when we ask is "I don't know." We are told of what happened when the plane finally arrives and as we are boarding the plane. Apparently they were shorthanded and there were a few maintenance issues and that's why it took eight hours. I do understand that delays like this can happen, it's frustrating but it is understandable. However, failing to inform passengers of a delay that can take up to several hours to fix and leave them essentially stranded at the airport is extremely poor customer service and there is no excuse for it. None. I was furious that they chose not to inform us of this and made us wait in the airport for hours on end. Why would you not inform passengers of problems like this??? If they were upfront about it and told us about the delay and kept us updated then this wouldn't have been an issue. Keeping passengers out of the loop is an issue! Long story short we managed to get back in the US but we didn't make it home until the next day. I am never flying with Air Tran again and have told my friends and family to avoid that airline like the plague.
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email@example.com on 09/26/2014:
I know I hate being in the dark when something like that happens. But, does it really matter? The flight is late regardless of the reason. The agent should have just made something up "Bad weather", etc.
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Air Tran or Air Trash?
Posted by
I was booked on Dallas-Atlanta, Atlanta-Washington DC on Thursday Mar 11
Dallas-Atlanta Flt 100 @ 6.20am left on time but could not land in Atlanta on schedule due to weather. Even when we landed, it took Airtan about 20 minutes to provide us with a gate. Our connecting flight 186 to Washington DCA was to leave at 10am. We got to the gate at 9.58am and the flight had left! There was no staff at the gate.
We approached the Customer Center at Gate C16 and I tried to speak to them about my peculiar situation. I was going to take a Virgin Atlantic flight to London at Dulles airport for 6.55pm. That was why I chose this connection. The Atlanta-DC flight to Reagan DCA was to arrive at 11.54 am. and my flight to London was at Dulles for 6.55pm so I had enough turnaround time if they had kept their end of the bargain.
what I experienced yesterday was a failure of customer service period. The AirTran people just could not get themselves together due to the crisis caused by weather. The test of great customer service is in a crisis and AirTran failed woefully. Only one guy at gate C8 was composed enough to think (Bolton White is his name) He should get promoted to Manager because he recognised peculiar situations and tried to fix each on its merit.
If I had gotten him earlier, we would have avoided the situation. Everyone in customer care Thursday Mar 11 were unhelpful, robotised and sometimes downright rude! One caucasian buffoon shouted me down and insisted I joined a queue of about 50 people with less urgent issues than mine. They wouldn't even listen. After waiting for about an hour, I finally got to talk to another who was more preoccupied in blaming me for choosing to fly out of 2 airports!
The trouble started when the connecting flight from Atlanta-DC left earlier than scheduled. We could not land in Atlanta on time because it rained. by the time we got to the gate of our connecting flight to DC at 10am, there was no plane!
It was scheduled to leave at 10am but when over 40 of us got to the gate at 9.58am, the plane had left and there was no staff at the gate! AirTran could have held that flight when they knew the connecting flight was delayed. In fact, it took 20mins for AirTran to provide us with a parking gate! So the delay was all their fault. I guess they didn't want to incur late fees so they passed the inconvenience to their customers!
Every attempt I made to get them to think outside the box just didn't yield. They were like progamed morons! "you missed the flight, we put you on the next one period"! The next flight was at 1.45pm so I waited for 4hrs. About 1pm, AirTrash! announced that this flight was delayed from New Orleans due to mechanical fault and would now leave at 3pm! my flight to London was at Dulles for 6.55pm and I still needed to go through security. Not to mention DC rush hour traffic from Reagan Memorial to Dulles
About Security; my Nigerian passport earned me instant 'suspected terrorist' status because I was taken aside, frisked and every item in my possession was checked for radioactive radiation - from my makeup, purse, phone, ipod, pc, shoes, bags, EVERYTHING! even my hands! that takes about 25 minutes and a lot of embarrassment. No thanks to Mutallab for this humiliation but what can one do?
Anyway, back to AirTrash! Bolton White was the ONLY one who recognised my urgency and took it up with the manager before they got me a business class seat on the earlier Atlanta-Baltimore BWI for 1.45pm. We arrived at 4pm and luggage took 30mins Its 1hr no traffice from BWI to Dulles so I would have arrived at 5.30pm and Virgin gate closes at 6pm.
All the way from Atlanta, I had been on the phone with the Virgin Atlantic customer service and they were excellent. I called Virgin 4 times and each representative was empathetic, helped me through possible options, even put a note on my reservation to alert check in staff of my predicament. When it was obvious I could not make the flight, they called the airport to offload me because I already checked in online and advised me on the cheapest options I had.
Since I had no plans to stay in DC, I had no one to pick me. All my contacts in the area were not available. 1 was in BWI for 4 hrs before locating my dear cousin (thank God for family) A shuttle to her house, (saved hotel) back to Dulles to try for a seat today, etc
Planned my itinerary to get to Lagos Saturday morning to make my live show Bimbo-Sola Connect on Lagos Television and the burial of my aunty. AirTrash trashed all that. I can only hope for a connecting flight to Lagos in time to speak at World Consumer Rights Day Summit in Abuja on Monday. All because AirTran Customer Service Staff didn't get the memo on thinking outside the box in resolving customer issues!
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Anonymous on 03/12/2010:
There's nothing peculiar about missing a connection due to weather. Gate assignments are given by the air traffic control tower not the airline so you can't fault Air Tran for a gate not being immediately available. If you get to the gate at 9:58am of course the flight would be gone for a 10am flight. 10am is the pushback time, not the time the doors are closed.
Also, flying into one airport and out of another one is a ridiculous decision as you now have realized. Chalk this up to experience and spend a little more for logical connections.
Ytropious on 03/12/2010:
Caucasian buffoon?! You can not get anywhere 2 minutes before something is supposed to leave. They wanted you to get in line and you basically said yourself that you felt your problems were more important then theirs and you deserved to cut them. NO, if they tell you to get in line go get in line, you have no idea what issues those other people were having and you have no right to cut them.
Anonymous on 03/12/2010:
Nigeria you say? Hmmmm, did your Aunty happen to leave you a gazillion trillion dollars that we can share if I help you move it out of Nigeria? Let me be your new friend!
Ben There on 03/12/2010:
Any time you choose a connection over a nonstop flight, you double your risk of missing a flight, and you had a connection in Atlanta, Washington and London to get to Lagos. American, BA, Lufthansa, KLM and Delta all offer one stop trips from Dallas to Lagos.
Any time you add in a change of airports, this risk increases a lot more. Add in the fact that you chose to travel on two separate tickets with little connection time you should have expected a major head ache if anything went wrong. American and United both offer nonstop flights from Dallas to Dulles so you could have cut out Atlanta. Even if you wanted to change airports, American, Air Tran and USAirways all offer nonstops to the Washington DC. Even better you could have taken BA or American nonstop from DFW to London.
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Missed Flight, Poor Customer Relations
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Last Sunday I was to return to Flint from Fort Myers, Florida. I tried to use the on-line check in service the night before, but could not check in for my flight. I tried for several hours with no luck. I tried again the next morning with still no luck.
With my flight scheduled to depart at 6:30pm, I arrived at the airport at 4pm. The agent at the counter looked at me and said "I have bad news. There is no way that you are going to get home tonight". When I asked why, he explained that the plane coming from D. C. had mechanical problems and would not arrive until 9pm. That would mean I would miss my connecting flight in Atlanta, and it is the last flight for the day going from Atlanta to Flint. When I asked him what my alternatives were, he said that the only thing I could do was come back the next day to take the same flight. That meant a 24 hour delay. I told him that was unacceptable and that he needed to work out something else. The only other option was to take my delayed flight to Atlanta, spend the night there and fly home the next day.
They did offer to put me up for the night in Atlanta, but here is where they added insult to injury. When we boarded the plane to go to Atlanta, the pilot came on the intercom and announced that due to the missed flight situation everyone would receive a round trip ticket anywhere that Airtran flies. That announcement brought cheers from the passengers.
However, when I called the Customer Relations Dept to arrange for the ticket I was told that it would only be a one-way ticket. The person informed me that the pilot was not authorized to make awards as compensation. It seems to me that he is an employee of the airlines, so when he speaks he is speaking for the company.
What really is annoying is that they knew the plane was delayed and yet they couldn't send me an email at 2pm to tell me that. They let me check out of my room, turn in my rental car, get to the airport, and then tell me. In fact, when I finally got to the boarding gate at 4-45pm, they still had that flight posted as being on time and leaving at the scheduled time of 6:30pm. They did not update the delay on any of the airport signage until after 5:30pm.
This is a very poorly run airline that does not communicate to it's customers, or for that matter, it's employees. I will avoid flying them at all costs in the future.
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goduke on 02/05/2010:
It's possible (perhaps) that they were still playing musical airplanes late into the afternoon to see if they could find a subsitute plane (it does happen). Still, sounds like a pretty frustrating situation.
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Injured during the flight
Posted by
AIRtran Please see further information below, Have you been able to follow up?
Thank You,
Thank you for contacting AirTran Airways. As I previously advised, the complaint has been filed on your behalf. However, it will be handled internally, and any corrective action that is taken is not shared with the public. Therefore, you will not hear back with any updates on your complaint. I am sorry for any disappointment my response may cause.
Thank you for contacting AirTran Airways. Have a nice day.
Customer Relations Department
AirTran Airways
C****, After you have checked and verified that what I have stated is the case please email me with a resolution. And I do agree that this item did not pertain to the safety of the aircraft although it did pertain to the safety of your passengers, As I read your response I feel that Airtran or its employees did not or do not care above a minimum amount about my condition or the Dangerous condition I was placed in on this flight. I am truly disheartened by the Quote F A A regulations. If your flight attendant would have just taken the time to investigate the situation we would not be having this discussion. Thank you for your quick response I look forward to hearing further from Airtran or yourself. Have a Great day.
Thank you
In a message dated info@mail. airtran.com writes:
I am sorry to learn of your disappointment with AirTran Airways, however, we thank you for allowing us the opportunity to address your concerns.
AirTran Airways considers the safety of our valued customers and crew members as our top priority. There are many checks and balances performed by our maintenance crews, our cockpit crews as well as the airlines' operations control to prevent flight irregularities. However normal use can affect the function of any mechanical device.
In compliance with F. A.A. regulation, some maintenance issues are considered Air Worthy, meaning safe to fly with as the item does not pertain to the safety of flight or the aircraft operation. In this case, our maintenance department would make the needed adjustment as soon as possible and within a specified amount of time. Nevertheless, your comments have been forwarded for review.
All AirTran Airways aircraft are equipped with first aid kits. There certainly should have been a bandage available for you upon your request. This information has also been forwarded to make sure the aircraft is fully stocked with the appropriate safety equipment.
Your continued support is important to us. We hope to have an opportunity in the future to better serve you and regain your confidence in our airline.
Customer Relations Department
AirTran Airways
--- Original Message ---
COMMENTS First, I would like to say that my Family and I almost always fly Airtran. And my wife insists that we try to fly your airline first, also I have been a A+ member for several years. (*********) I recently flew with Airtran on J*** @*** Flight ** from LAX to BWI seat ** D. When we where seated on the plane I noticed that something had stuck me in the leg and when I checked my leg I noticed it was scratched/cut, I felt down under my seat and found a piece of metal sticking out from the bottom of the seat. since we where in flight I notified the flight attendant and asked if I could have 2 bandages one for my leg and another to put over this piece of metal sticking out under the seat. He said he would check, he came back and said that they had no bandages on the plane and that I should try to be careful and he would have the seat AT&T! ended to when we landed in Maryland. During the 4.5 hours I cut my leg several more times. It was impossible not to. Since I did not know what action to follow I contacted my Doctor and he said that I had a tetanus (sp) booster when I was in John Hopkins for my Chemo therapy 2 years earlier and to watch the cuts and see if they begin to become infected. He also told me to use a good antibiotic cream with the bandage. Currently I seam to be fine. It is very disheartening that this did not seam to mater and it was quite unsettling to me as I waited and checked my leg for an infection. I am concerned that someone could be seriously injured by this broken piece of metal and that the plane had no bandages. Please contact me Thank you,
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Ben There on 07/27/2009:
Were there no other seats on the plane?
Anonymous on 07/27/2009:
You took the words right out of my keyboard, Ben
Eloise on 07/27/2009:
The whole thing sounds like an accident, that somenone wanted to turn into a free ticket.
Ben There on 07/27/2009:
I can see getting cut once, but to continue to sit in the seat and be stabbed is beyond me. I would have moved seats if there was one available. If not, I would have covered the sharp point with a carry on or a blanket.
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Charged additional fees
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MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA -- On April 25, 2009 my family and I had flights booked through Expedia for flights from Minneapolis, MN to Orlando, Florida. Our flights booked on March 30th 2009 showed our entire round trip at about $200 per person. Upon check in at Minneapolis gates we were told by Air Tran employee, that there was still $485 outstanding bill on our flights. We argued that the flights were paid for and we were told that we would not be able to board until we paid the outstanding balance.
We did not have time to argue for we had cruise we were going on and could not take the chance of missing our flight and therefore missing the cruise. I called Expedia right away and the representative told me "They have been doing this a lot lately. Just fax us your paperwork when you get back to Minneapolis and we will contact Air Tran." Of course the Air Tran Rep we spoke to blames Expedia for booking the flights incorrectly which I disagree with for I have an itemized receipt which shows our flights were paid in full.
Also, when we were checking in at Minneapolis, we were told "Your bag is nice. Just make sure you don't over pack it or you'll be charged over-weight fees."
Upon checking in at the Orlando Airport for our return flight to Minnapolis May 4th, the ticketing person, did not even greet us or make eye contact. She took out her tape measure and went to work at measuring our bags. She told us that "yes" the same "nice bag" is now not overweight but "oversized." She was the most unpleasant person to deal with and charged us extra $39 "oversize" bag fee. She left us standing at the check-in counter for 30 minutes, because of the argument I had with her and we almost missed our flight.
I still have not heard from Expedia regarding our refund. I will continue to pursue this matter with the BBB if Expedia does not respond by the end of the day May 15 2009. I just wanted to let the public know that the customer service with Air Tran is the worst I have ever experience and they are making it their business to rip off other hard working people. They don't accept responsibility for their actions and it's always the customer's fault or problem. I will NEVER fly Air Tran again. I have been sharing my experiences with their company representatives/employees with my co-workers, family and friends and anyone else who will listen. Please take the time to read all the similar complaints against Air Tran before booking your next flight.
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rudybjr on 05/18/2009:
These types of problems are caused by not buying directly from the airline. Expedia is most likely the culprit. Sure they can send you a receipt showing that you gave THEM the money for your tickets, but that receipt is useless to the airline personnel. Expedia has to show the airline a properly issued ticket to show it was confirmed. If its not, then Expedia didn't give the airline the whole amount.
getoverit on 08/27/2010:
I can empathize with two parts of this story.
First, Air Tran is unreasonable about strictly enforcing their baggage size and weight policies. They whip out those tape measures and a bag that is designed and built to conform to standard flight dimensions can too easily be over-sized if it's just the least bit full.
Secondly, I've encountered several of their Ticketing Agents who are curt and unaccommodating to the point of being rude and almost hostile. They could just as easily enforce all their nickel-and-dime while being just normally civil. It's more than one or two agents.
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Excessive Baggage Fees And Rude Customer Service
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WASHINGTON, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA -- Just wanted to share a letter I wrote to Airtran after basically being held hostage at National Airport where my choice was miss my flight, get a refund on my ticket and buy from another airline last minute (an unacceptable solution financially and in time), or pay over $200.00 in luggage fees for one ski bag and one rolling duffel bag. I would highly recommend not flying them. I ended up buying a $99.00 one way ticket back on Southwest who were a dream to deal with and did not charge a cent for my two bags.
Dear Mr. Hutcheson,
I recently flew from National Airport in Washington, DC to Denver, Colorado. Upon arriving at the terminal in DC I went to check in my two bags, a ski bag and one piece of rolling luggage. I was first told you did not accept ski bags, but I had read on your website before purchasing my ticket that you did in fact accept ski bags. So after waiting for a long period of time to see a supervisor I was told he could refund my ticket price and I would have to buy a ticket on another airline, which was a completely unacceptable solution as I was scheduled to be in Denver that day and a ticket purchased on such short notice would be exorbitantly priced.
After finally agreeing to check my bag with only five minutes left to board the flight, the supervising agent charged me over $200.00 to check my bags which I had no choice but to pay or miss my flight. As a result of this I ended up purchasing a return ticket on Southwest airlines one way for only $99.00 and they charged nothing for me to check my two bags. In addition to the baggage charges the agent was nothing short of rude and really seemed to have no concern for me getting on the flight.
I am writing to you to let you know this type of treatment is what has caused many of us to travel less frequently or only on airlines such as Southwest who do not rape their customers. I find it amazing that certain airlines have seen fit to penalize their customers to make up for their own poor planning and business practices. As this was my first time flying AirTran I was hoping for a better experience, but having been charged nearly the price of the ticket in luggage charges I do not anticipate flying with your airline again. With the economy in its current state I would think it would be unwise to lose the customers who still desire to travel. I have several friends who resist flying at all, as it has become such a hassle and less than pleasurable experience.
Anything you can do to reimburse my excessive luggage charges would go a long way in motivating me to try your airline again. I am also attaching my itinerary should have any questions about the flights I was on.
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Anonymous on 04/27/2009:
Your letter is generally well written, and your points are valid, but when you describe it as a 'rape', you not only do a disservice to the victims of a fairly horrible crime, but you make yourself less credible. If you are really going to send this letter, you might wish to rethink your choice of words.
jktshff1 on 04/27/2009:
ken, this has been hashed on the site before. While the choice of words might be debatable, the definition of rape includes the definition used in context here.
Ben There on 04/27/2009:
If you were on AirTrans website long enough to see that they take ski bags, you must have seen that they charge for checked bags like most other airlines, correct? Out of all the airlines they are the most strict in enforcing the baggage rules. If they continue to turn profits when other airlines including Southwest lose 10s if not hundreds of millions, expect more carriers to adopt those policies as well.
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AirTran Untruthful? An Expensive Lesson
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My opinion based upon experiences with AirTran: AirTran provides fairly low-priced air travel and was even on-time during most of my flights. Checking even 1 bag will cost you $15 more than what you're told the cost of the trip will be. If you want to talk with an AirTran representative when making your reservation, it will cost you another $15, and if you change your reservatiion after you make it, even if it is for a more expensive flight, it will cost you another $75 in addition to the extra ticket cost. One experience with AirTran on 3/28/09 makes me suspect that AirTran representatives were, and continued to be less than truthful with their passengers, and I've learned that any time someone is less than truthful, the buyer must beware.
You be the judge: Flight 934 on 3/28/09 was scheduled for departure from Atlanta at 6:24 PM. All passengers were allowed to board the aircraft at approximately 7:35PM. After about ten minutes, the captain announced over the speakers that he had just been informed that the aircraft was down for maintenance, and that we must leave the aircraft. He told us that there was another plane already "here" and that should walk to another gate to board it. When we arrived at the other gate, we discovered that the replacement plane was not there, and had not even landed. We were told by a gate agent that it was about to land. After waiting for about an additional hour, we were told by a gate agent that the replacement plane had run low on fuel while waiting to land, and was re-directed to another city for refueling, but that we should continue to wait for it to arrive in Atlanta.
Approximately one-half hour later, all passengers were told by a gate agent that the flight had been cancelled due to weather, and that the passengers were automatically booked on the next AirTran flight in the morning. We were referred to Atlanta hotels for overnight accommodations, at our cost, with no meal allowance or other compensation. I called AirTran "Customer Relations" on 4/07/09 and asked that they at least reimburse me for the cost of the hotel. I was then informed that although maintenance personnel did board the plane that the passengers had originally boarded at 7:35 PM, it was "never down for maintenance", but instead was always cleared for flight. The "Customer Relations" representative insisted that the flight was cancelled due to weather, and that is why there was no compensation to the passengers. I asked the "Customer Relations" representative what time the passengers boarded the plane that had the maintenance issue, and she indicated that it was at about 7:35 PM. She also admitted that all of the passengers were required to leave the plane within a few minutes of boarding.
I then asked her what time the flight had been cancelled "due to weather", and she indicated that it was at about 9:10 PM. I asked her to explain why the passengers were made to wait for about one and one-half hours for another plane if the original plane was "never down for maintenance" but rather cleared for flight, and she continually brought up the weather conditions as the reason. I discovered that Delta Airlines did fly from Atlanta to my destination very shortly thereafter. I did note that some other airlines were cancelling flights due to weather. When I got to my Atlanta hotel, I noticed guests using Delta vouchers to pay for rooms and meals. However, there was no compensation from AirTran.
If you choose to fly AirTran, beware of the inconveniences and additional expenses that you may incur, and of AirTran's hardline approach to blaming mother nature for what may actually be their fault.
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Anonymous on 04/08/2009:
Yeah, you should have just flown on the broken plane. Shame on AirTran for making safety the first priority.
wgaguy1984 on 04/08/2009:
I quit reading when they started complaining about bag fees, booking fees, and change fees.
rudybjr on 04/11/2009:
Air traffic control can allow some planes to depart but has to cancel others due to weather. That is what mostly happens in a situation like this. Unfortunately the airlines are kept in the dark about whether they can depart or not until the last minute. That is why AirTran didn't compensate, it sounds like it was an air traffic control cancellation due to weather. The Delta customers could have been on a maintenance or mechanical cancellation.
airtran sucks on 04/12/2009:
Ya know what? We had a simalar experience with AirTrash.They are the worst Airline ever.
jerseygurl on 08/22/2009:
I love that!air trash! ha!
Eloise on 08/22/2009:
You bought a cheap ticket, don't expect world class service or amenities!
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