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I'm from Boston, NY Wife says: "NY Pizza is the best." So where is it?
Our tenth anniversary is coming up in October. We have a weekend away from the kids. Going to Babbo for a late dinner (10PM). We get into upper west side in the early afternoon. So....
where is this mythical great New York pizza? She's talked about it for years, every time we eat pizza in Boston "Oh this isn't as good as in NY."
So where can we go? I want this stuff!!
There's actually a significant variety within NYC pizza. Really, it depends what you're looking for: cheesier/greasier gas oven style (like a Ray's) or lighter, fluffier coal oven style (like Patsy's or Totonno's)?
What matters more to you, quality of toppings or quality of crust? Do you mind a chewier pie? Or do you want a crispier pie? Etc. I assume you don't want one of the newfangled Naples inspired pies, which are not really what people think of when they think of pizza in NY.
Takeout? Sit down? Or is standing up OK with you? Are you willing to wait in a long line? Note also that a lot of famous pizza places are pies only.
How far are you willing to travel? Where on the UWS will you be?
1544 2nd Ave, New York, NY 10028
re: kathryn
OK I'll try:
My slightly helpful wife says "I just mean a regular pizzaria slice o pie. Thin and chewy. Not froo froo."
I'll eat it standing on my head if it's delicious.
We're staying at 68 and Broadway.
Slice is good, but our dinner reservation is late enough that we could eat a whole pie no problem.
My image of NY pizza is "Two slices" from Do The Right Thing.
thanks for the help.
re: nickbobo
One more thing that might be important. My wife grew up on Long Island as opposed to Manhattan proper.
re: nickbobo
Yeah, that's going to be a problem. I grew up on Long Island too, where pretty much any strip mall pizza joint you wander across is going to have pizza that's far better than 95% of the pizza you find here in Boston. And when I visit my family in NYC, I'm excited for a pizza slice and always disappointed until I head out to Port Washington to visit my brother there. I like Patsy's and Grimaldi's but it's not like what I grew up with and am looking for. I haven't tried DiFara's and I think I'd love it, but it wouldn't be like the slice of my youth. It's been a long time since I've had Ray's and I remember liking it as a kid, but as a change, not an example of the pizza I generally ate. MVNYC is probably right in that a slice joint will probably be the closest to what your wife likes, but the few I have tried in NYC proper didn't do it for me (Abitino's, in particular, which was some of the worst pizza I've ever eaten.)
If you really want to quench her pizza craving, take the Orient Point or Port Jefferson ferry home, and stop at any random pizza place you see on the way. I kid you not, your wife will very likely not be disappointed. And check out some of the pizza threads on the Boston board. There is actually pizza here worth pursuing.
47 W 20th St, New York, NY 10010
re: Chris VR
Patsy's and Grimaldi's are both coal oven places, I'm guessing what you want is gas oven pizza, right? Or something different? Can you elaborate on what you ate as a kid if it isn't what Ray's, etc. serve now? Agree that Abitino's was horrible.
47 W 20th St, New York, NY 10010
re: kathryn
LIke I said, it's been years since I had Ray's but I recall it being closer to what I now know is deep dish style, with a thicker crust, a straight mozzerella cheese topping (I think, but don't know, that the pizza on LI also has parmesan and/or romano) and crumbly sausage, which is something I had never seen- meatballs and sausages were always sliced, never crumbled. I seem to remember it came in a triangle-shaped box, which I'd also never seen before. Looking at the pictures I can find of Ray's, it's not what I am remembering, so perhaps my memory is thinking of something completely different.
I assume it's gas oven pizza. The bottom was not quite crisp, mostly smooth although you could see small air bubbles if you looked closely, sort of a caramel color, and the dough has a perceivable malt flavor. The sauce has an acidic bite to it- not too sweet. The aforementioned cheese blend, applied a bit too thickly. You always needed to blot it with napkins to take off the oil slick. or it dripped down your arm when it was folded. I can't speak for the OP's wife, but if she grew up on Long Island, I can state with a fair amount of certainty that's what she is looking for.
re: Chris VR
What you are describing is a classic slice of NY Pizza whether that is LI or NYC. There are plenty of places to get a slice like that. Joe's is like that as are a lot of other places in all of the boroughs. Next time you are in NYC post where you will be and perhaps someone can help.
re: MVNYC
My husband also grew up on LI, and we've never found pizza anywhere else that fits with the pizza we've gotten from there. We're going to be in Manhattan in January, and we'd really like some good pizza, LI style. We'll be staying uhm, I think it's called Midtown, in the Theater district, not far from Hell's Kitchen (I THINK I got that right). Any suggestions? :)
re: Morganna
Same suggestion, head to Joe's on Carmine and Bleecker. Kathryn's idea of how to spend the day a few posts up is a really good idea. That area is great for NYers and tourists alike.
I am sure there are good Pizza shops in that area but I am not too familiar with it. Someone else can pipe in for that. Really though for what you are looking for, Joe's will fit the bill.
re: daffyduck
If you're looking for a slice near penn station, then you have to go to Don Pepe. Its next to the Krispy Kreme, between the NJ Transit and Amtrak sections of the station.
re: daffyduck
Cool. I look forward to your review.
re: nickbobo
You want a NY style piece of pizza. There are a lot of Neapolitan style places that people rave about and they are good but that is not what you are looking for and your wife would call "froo froo". I eat at them but they are not where I would send someone who is from out of town for a standard NYC slice. It seems like a lot of people on this board look down on typical NYC slice joints but they are what keeps NYC like NYC. People seem to forget how bad regular NY style Pizza is out of the area.
For a great slice I like Joe's. Off of Bleecker and kind of near Babbo. I suppose you could get a slice early afternoon, do the tourist thing in the Village and hit Babbo.
110 Waverly Pl, New York, NY 10011
re: MVNYC
I can definitely see a mid-day afternoon stroll in that area yielding lots of delicious stuff. A few slices at Joe's (try the fresh mozzarella one, too), then a croissant at Claude's, gelato at L'Arte de Gelato, try some of the wares at Murray's Cheeses or Amy's Bread. Yum! You could also stop for a cocktail or two and some light bar snacks at Pegu Club when they open around 6pm or so. Or a glass of wine at the bar at Otto. Babbo would then be a short walk away from either.
Pegu Club
77 W Houston St, New York, NY 10012
re: kathryn
Kathryn, that sounds like an great day whether you are a tourist or not.
re: foodwhisperer
Ben's on Spring St. -amen to that, the ne plus ultra of slices in the city.
[I'm reminded, reading Chris' posts above, that the key to good pizza is the water used to make the dough. That may be why Boston suffers so: when I shower at my sister's house in that town, I never come away clean.]
re: Phil Ogelos
As the song says " I love that dirty water........Boston your my home"
re: Phil Ogelos
I don't know if that's necessarily so, as there IS good pizza to be found outside New York City... and supposedly in Boston as well (Regina's).
re: kathryn
As a New Yorker who went to school in the Boston area, I have to say I was unable to find particularly good pizza there. I probably liked Galleria Umberto's Sicilian slice the best. It wasn't nearly as good as Artichoke's or Di Fara's, but it was also about 30-40% the price. Gran Gusto's Neapolitan pizzas were pretty decent.
The original Regina is ok. Their other locations are flat-out bad.
re: kathryn
I was only talking about the role fine water plays in producing good dough and thus good pizza, kathryn, and how Boston might or might not live up to that condition. That's ALL I said.
There might be superlative pizza in Boise, Idaho and in Milton, MA, concurrently, for all I know -I made no claim to an NYC monopoly on the good stuff.
re: Phil Ogelos
Also, if you jsut walk into the first pizza place you see. You're likely to be disappointed. Do research. Most places are just bad.
re: nickbobo
You're looking for the old-school new york slice. If you haven't been here in a while you should know that there's been an artisinal pizza movement going on for a few years now. Places like Keste, Co., Motorino, etc... But you want an old-school slice. That breed has been going downhill for years now but you can still find a few decent places. My favorite is Joes on 6th ave just north of bleeker in the west village.
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003
re: psawce23
Curious why you think that breed is going downhill for years now? Are the slices becoming worse or have your tastes changed?
re: psawce23
i find the good slice places are still good, so i'm not sure what you mean by going downhill
Rather than look for the best NY pizza, I would go for the best pizza in NY. Keste or Motorino. Possibly Co.
None of these are probably what your wife was talking about, since they haven't been in business for years, but this is what's been getting New Yorkers excited lately.
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003
Di Fara's. He is the artist. Your wife would need to be willing to wait. He is the only cook and he takes his time. Each detail of each pie gets his full attention. My favorite is the Sicilian porcini mushroom pizza. However, any will do. Dom is consistently great. Take the Q train to the Avenue J stop and walk two blocks to 1424 Ave. J (corner of 15th St.) This is authentic old New York pizza at its height. If you want something more comfortable, a sit down eating experience, less wait time, Motorino is good. I had a wonderful mozarella di bufalo with proscuitto pie. Motorino has unusual and great beer. L train to Graham, corner Devoe (Manhattan location is 349 E. 12th St.).
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003
re: ConnieC
If the OP's wife wants what she grew up with, though, I'm not sure Di Fara or Motorino will be the right place to go.
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003
re: Motosport
Although I think that NY "has the best pizza in the" continental USofA, I would never stretch that to say "the world". Most pizza in Italy are heads-and-shoulders better than ours in good 'ole NY.
re: diprey11
Some of the worst pizza I have ever had was in Venice. Overall the pizza in the north was not as good as NY, IMO.
DiFara beats it by 10,000 miles.
Also, I do agree with the above sentiment that the average strip mall pizza in Long Island is pretty good compared to the rest of the country: i.e. Gino's on the North Shore for exapmle...
re: NYJewboy
It depends on where exactly in Venice, tourist traps and all. Please don't say, anywhere near the Grand Canal. ;-) Outside of that touristy area, I would probably disagree: even in Santa Lucia, let alone in Mestre, but that discusion probably belongs to another board. We are in a violent agreement that the NYC pizza beats any other tri-state offerings, and pehaps far beyond that.
re: nickbobo
I grew up in Brooklyn, eating at slice joints. If that's the standard, more or less, Sal and Carmine's is a good choice. They're on the west side of Broadway, around West 102nd Street.
I hear that the Popover now sells kits to make your own popovers at home.
re: nickbobo
I lived right near where you are staying for a few years, and Francesco's Pizza on 68th and Columbus is very good. As good as Joe's on Bleeker or Di Fara? No, but its obviously quite closer to where you are staying.
If you don't mind the trip to Queens, Alba's on Queens Blvd and Main St has the best pizza I have ever had period. I haven't lived near Alba's in over 3 years and still make the trip to get that deliciousness that is there pizza!
The mythical pizza your wife is talking about for years can only be the standard gas oven type that is so prevalent in the boroughs for years(there are many many great pizzas now but that has been as of late and of varying kinds). With that said you want the type you can buy by the slice and eat standing up and there is no reason to look any further than Joe's on Carmine/off Bleeker. They have without a doubt the quintessential NYC slice. perfect crust(not to thick/not too thin) just the right amount of sauce and two choices of cheese option(standard-the kind she is probably talking about and fresh-the one you should try as well). It defintitely helps that Babbo is not too far away. if you don't want to beleive me look at their walls or check out how many foodie walking tours roll through there on a daily basis. After Joe's feel free to try any of the newer varieties we are fortunate to have so many! Co., Motorino, etc
110 Waverly Pl, New York, NY 10011
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003
re: nyccap28
This sounds like the winner. Thanks very much. I'll report back in October....
re: Chuck Lawrence
If the OP's wife is looking for the pie from her Long Island childhood, I don't think Keste fits. Good pizza, yes. But they don't want Naples style.
I would recommend Motorino or Co. for Manhattan. Keste as a distant third. If you're willing to travel then definitely Paulie Gee's in Greenpoint, Di Fara in Midwood(reserach this beforehand so you're not waiting in line for 3 hours), and Totonno's in Coney Island.
I've heard great things about Lucali, but haven't made it out there yet.
1544 2nd Ave, New York, NY 10028
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003
Maybe this won't help. I grew up on Long Island and ate many, many excellent pizzas. However, I went to NYC a couple of years ago to see a Broadway Show (42nd Street) After the show I meant to go east for a particular restaurant but with no sense of direction ended up going west instead. Think I made it to around 7th or 8th avenue. Hunger didn't permit backtracking and the hour was late enough that most places weren't serving dinner so stopped into a large, bright place specializing in slices. It was the best pizza I've ever had and very reasonably priced as well. Anyone know where I was so I could go back someday and so the diarist could try it?
re: susanl143
The most expansive place I know of with pizza near that area is Mariella Pizza; have never had it but it does seem to fit your description. However, it is up between 56th and 57th on 8th. How far west do you think you walked? Most shows are around 7th avenue, so if you walked a few blocks west you may have been along 9th avenue (though most spots along 9th are smaller joints, and actually tend towards chains)
I lived up there for many years and the two places to go for pizza she is looking for are -
for a slice:
Sal & Carmine's
2671 Broadway, New York NY 10025 (b/n 101st/102nd); 212-663-7651
for a pie:
1024 Amsterdam Ave, New York 10025
(Btwn 110th & 111th St)
For a novelty slice that isn't too bad for what it is, I used to go up to Koronet on 111th and broad and get that gigantic slice for like $2:50.
BTW I went to Popover's at least twice a month when I was up there and any weekday I was off I'd get the Cappuccino Eggs. Never understood why they didn't do this on the weekend...
Sal & Carmine's
2671 Broadway, New York, NY 10025
2848 Broadway, New York, NY 10025
re: doubleffs
Francesco's Pizza on 68th and Columbus is my favorite. Lived in that area for awhile. Some people prefer Rigoletto which is one block up (just north of Magnolia Bakery).
re: Pan
V&T has for ages been - and remains - subpar. Wouldn't waste my time. Seriously.
The few times I tried Sal & Carmine's the saltiness factor overpowered the otherwise fine slice. Not sure whether that is typical for them but I give up.
Rigoletto on Columbus nr 69th is a quite good neighborhood slice with an impressive variety of toppings.
Fiorello across from Lincoln Center has a simple, tasty thin pie (and more expensive).
For anything serious we head to the boroughs.
Sal & Carmine's
2671 Broadway, New York, NY 10025
Under the radar but excellent as a slice place: The Pizza Box, Bleecker near Sullivan in the Village; as mentioned above by Thew, on the UES, Italian Village: those who live near it, know...
Pizza Box
176 Bleecker St, New York, NY 10012
i am from Cambridge so this may be a little off topic, but i think that you can get a good pizza at Coppa or Rialto. You may never be able to recreate the experience of being your wife at age 15.
Though perhaps not: I used to dream about the crab-cakes at Les Nomades in Chicago, and I found that Jean-Georges made something pretty much as good as Jovan Treboyevich made in the early 80s. So, perhaps, contrary to Thomas Wolfe, you can go back again.
I wrote a big, long review that didn't seem to get posted. Here is the short version.
I'm a fellow Bostonian and you should go to DiFara's. Dom DeMarco is 80-years-old and is the only one who makes the pizza. Get there soon. I will take you there if that makes you feel more comfortable about not getting lost in Brooklyn AND I will refund your money if you don't absolutely LOVE the pizza. (Seriously.) I take friends on tours of Brooklyn. This is one of my stops.
If you don't believe me (a stranger), Lucali's was just voted the 2nd best pizza in America by GQ Magazine. Mark, the owner of Lucali's, learned how to make pizza from Dom. Lucali's is not as good as DiFara's. GO!!!!!
re: ToastMaster
I'm a Boston transplant, been living in NY for about 2.5 years now. First let me say, your wife is right. The pizza down here is on another level. In Boston (and New England in general), greek pizza is tolerated. Greek pizza wouldn't last a day down here. Even bad pizza in the city is good.
Next, as much as I love DiFara, if you're visiting NY, it's not worth the hassle (and it IS a hassle) to get a good Sicilian pizza. The line is always long, but call in an order to Artichokes on 14th St (order a whole pie, take the leftovers back with you... you can't get pizza like this up there). It's nearly as good as DiFara's with a fraction of the time commitment (when I've gone to DiFara's it takes nearly an hour to get there by train, and then the wait for a pizza is at least an hour unless you go at an off time. 3-4 hours is a bit much to ask for pizza).
Motorino and Keste (as mentioned here) are both fantastic. Honestly, even the slice joints will satisfy a craving for pizza that can't be itched up in Boston. My wife and I can't go a week without eating pizza down here, it's just too good. We'd go months up in Boston without eating a slice. Enjoy!
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003
re: ToastMaster
The OP said they get into the UWS in the early afternoon. It takes an hour by subway to get to Di Fara. On weekends they close at 4pm, although lately it's been more like 3pm. The timing is risky because the OP might get into town late (traffic, plane delays, etc), and get to Di Fara after Dom's decided he's taken the last lunch order already.
re: kathryn
Just to be clear to others who read this, DiFara's closes for a mid-day break at 3 or so. They reopen around six and stay 'til about 9.
re: ToastMaster
Never made it to DiFara's. It was on my birthday pizza tour list but we ran out of time in Brooklyn and headed to Manhattan.
Word has it that they do sell slices but they are $5.00. Worth it?
re: Motosport
It's a $4 slice for which they charge $5. With all the effort to get out there and the wait, do you really mind the extra dollar or two. Yes it's worth it. But if you go that far, why not get a pie (if there are at least two of you)?
re: bobjbkln
How much is a pie? $40?? I think a Lucali pie is $25. I gotta try them both and compare.
re: Motosport
There was an epic thread on the price of Di Fara pizza last year on the OB board...
re: Motosport
I just went a couple of weeks ago and it was absolute 110% worth it. Not something I would do every day, but it was probably the best pizza I've ever had.
In my opinion these are the essential ones :
Di Fara (my favorite)
1544 2nd Ave, New York, NY 10028
What it sounds to me your wife is talking about is a generic slice of pizza you can get in any neighborhood pizzaria in NY. There is probably one within 5 blocks of where you are, almost no matter where you are in NYC. Most of them are pretty good. Most of them are not very different from each other, relative to what you get in other parts of the country (apparently--I haven't been everywhere.) There are some distinctions, like in the thickness of the crust and the sweetness of the sauce, etc., but they are basically similar.
The people who populate this board are mostly New Yorkers with a bent for the gourmet. Many of them, myself included, have had so many slices of pizza from so many neighborhood joints, that we now consider most of them rather average or mediocre; and the search is always on to find the cream de la creme.
These typical slices though, perhaps considered mediocre by the more discerning palates, are what makes up what most people think of as New York pizza. Many places outside the NY Metro area make pizza so much differently that the subtle variations between any two NY neighborhood joints is practically insignificant.
You can just find the closest pizzaria to where you are to get New York Pizza. If however, you want the very best, you can follow any of the more particular suggestions in this thread. However, you might have to travel a bit then.
re: TomChowhound
i disagree with so much of this post, tom.
there is a HUGE variance of pizza quality and taste across neighborhood joints. yes they are basically similar, inasmuch as they are all NY style pizza, as opposed to what you get in chicago or cleveland, but thats as far as that goes.
most of everything is average (that's what the word means, no?) not just pizza, but there are many neighborhood places with slices that are not just not mediocre, but excellent.
I am a lifetime NYer, with a bent for the gourmet. i have a discerning palate. I generally prefer a good NYC neighborhood joint slice to any of the thin crust coal oven gourmet pizza places. Just in my neighborhood alone there are a good dozen places in walking distance from my house. I will eat in maybe 3 or 4 of them tops, and of those 3 or 4 only consider 1 or 2 excellent. and even though i have to walk by 4 or 5 other places before i get to those top 2, i happily do so. There is nothing mediocre about those places.
re: Phil Ogelos
italian village - 80th and 1st
re: premiumgal
pizza is SO subjective.
i used to love delizia (they used to be in the store next door), it was my go to place in the 1980's; i think their pizza had dropped in quality over the years. it isn't bad but, well, they are the closest place to my house and i rarely go. although the last few times i was there it was better than it had been at their nadir
As another Bostonian, I've also had this question. Am in Manhattan today for a quick business trip that finished early, so made it to the village to try Joe's. Had a cheese slice, which was very good. However, (and please don't flame me on this), I would not say it was over and above better than all possible options in Boston. The original Regina in the NE of Boston is equally good, I would say.
What is probably true is that there are probably many more options in NYC than Boston, where it's likely to be above average. But some of the many random places I walked past today, where they were selling $1/slice pizza, didn't look that appetizing (not that I tried them), so it's probably not fair to say that all nyc pizza is better than all boston pizza.
Did enjoy my slice though -- thanks for the tip!
re: trueblu
Joe's isn't a destination worthy slice. It's fine if you're there, and people who love it, really do love it for some reason, but I've never understood sending an out of towner to there. It's perfectly fine, and a step up from most random places you might stumble in to....but it's true most people will find comparable if not better pizza back home.
Had you gone a few blocks over to Keste, and wanted a whole pie, you would have found something outstanding.
re: sugartoof
If someone is looking for a NYC slice of pizza than Joe's is definitely a destination place. The crust is both crispy and chewy, the sauce and cheese are both good and in the proper ratio. Their fresh cheese slice is really good too. Pizza is fairly subjective but there are a lot of people who love Joe's. The original poster was asking for a good example of a slice of NYC pizza, not a whole pie.
There was good pizza to be found in NY before the arrival of all of these Neapolitan inspired places.
re: MVNYC
I already acknowledged Joe's is much beloved. I just don't think it lives up to the hype, and can understand the above posters comment.
Joe's is turning out a fast food slice, not unlike many others in the city.
Sure, it's nostalgic for some to dump dry oregano on a mediocre slice to get some taste out of it, but you can do that at a number of places (Stromboli's comes to mind) with a lot less fanfare. Also, the Joe's crust is notoriously cardboard like, unless you luck out.
I feel bad that tourists go here, and think it's a bit misleading. The slice is not a unique slice, and the quality is not of a high end quality (Canned mushrooms? C'mon now). New Yorkers should know that, which means those who love it, do so for an entirely different set of reasonings. Genuine question...have we ever had a visitor come back on CH and rave about their slice at Joe's?
Pretty sure the oldest pizza places in NY were also Neapolitan inspired, btw.
re: sugartoof
It has nothing to do with nostalgia. People like "fast food" slices of pizza. The thing I missed most while living in other parts of the country or world was a great slice joint. You don't need to order a pie with gourmet ingredients to have a great slice of pizza. NYC is a pizza town where you can walk into any one of hundreds of local places and come out with a great slice. You don't find this too many other places and with such volume you also get a great variety to suit different tastes. New Yorkers may like one place over another due to a particular way they like their pizza.
Joe's is very good. Is it the best I have ever had no, but it is far from cardboard like and is what people think of when they want a NY slice. Lots of other places were mentioned in this thread as well.
It is clear you do not seem to appreciate the NYC style of pizza or its purpose as a quick easy and cheap meal or snack. That is ok. Not everybody needs to. However most tourists who come to our fair city do appreciate this as something they cannot get at home. Cheap eats are a good thing and a good way to get into the actual local culture of natives and how they feed themselves in a given day. So no reason to "feel bad" for tourists.
Of course NY pizza was inspired by Neapolitan pizza from 1890. The original pizza places were owned by immigrants from Naples. I was clearly referring to the new wave of places.
re: sugartoof
By the way I have eaten at Keste twice and was unimpressed. While not bad by any means there was no way it justified the hype nor did it come close to being as good as any pizza I had in Naples or Rome. It is also as fast food as they come, as soon as I was done with my pizza but while I still had half a carafe of wine we were rushed the check and forced out the door.
Transcendent pizza this is not.
re: MVNYC
I have to strongly disagree with you on Keste. First of all, it is not directly comparable to Roman pizza, which is excellent but in a different style. But that said, I found it comparable to good Neapolitan pizza, though not as good as the best (my favorite on visits in the 90s was the Antica Pizzeria Porta d'Alba, just off of Pizza Dante, for whatever that's worth). Moreover, I found it some of the best pizza I've had in New York, which is really more to the point.
re: Pan
I agree with you Roman pizza is completely different and probably an unfair comparison here. That said I didn't think Keste is a good Neapolitan Pizza, The dough was undercooked even by those standards. The toppings were fine on both visits but I just didn't find it to be a revelatory pizza experience. Of the newer places I preferred Paulie G's in Greenpoint to it and the late Una.
re: sugartoof
I think that the poster who posted recently about his or her "cheap eats" trip was quite pleased with Joe's slice.
"Joe's Pizza (6th Ave and Carmine) - Great cheese slice. I got mine fresh from the oven, first slice off the pie. Maybe not the best ever but pretty darn good to remind me of what a NYC slice tastes like"
That was Sept. 13th - http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/7338...
re: MMRuth
"Maybe not the best ever but pretty darn good"
Thanks MMRuth, I stand corrected, someone reported back with some positive words, and the poster above did like their slice...we're talking about pizza, it's an okay slice, but I hate to think that's our ambassador for NY pizza.
re: sugartoof
Do you have a different gas oven, thin crust, cheesy street corner type of slice that you like instead of Joe's?
Yes, the oldest coal oven pizza places (Grimaldi's, etc) were Naples inspired but I don't count them in the same genre as a Joe's type slice.
re: kathryn
Stromboli was the name that popped into my head.
Even Ray's on Prince....and a number of random places, depending on how fresh it looks at any given time.
I'm not suggesting anyone run to try any of them.
re: kathryn
« Do you have a different gas oven, thin crust, cheesy street corner type of slice that you like instead of Joe's? » ********DI FARA***********
Di Fara is gas oven, thin crust and cheesy. The difference is that Dom uses great ingredients (3 kinds of cheese, home made San Marzano tomato sauce, fresh basil, EVOO, etc.) and hand makes each pie. Still it's a typical NY style.
San Marzano
71 Clinton St, New York, NY 10002
re: bobjbkln
I also count Di Fara as its own genre due to the cheese mix, fresh basil, and olive oil drizzled on top. Not sure you can call it a "typical NY style" slice if nobody else is doing all of those things.
re: kathryn
I agree, Kathryn. DiFara is not typical in any way. And one way that's true is that he uses great fresh toppings.
re: sugartoof
>but it's true most people will find comparable if not better pizza back home.
I'm not a fan of Joe's, but you overestimate the rest of the U.S.A!
re: uwsister
Indeed! I invite you to visit my in laws in suburban Wisconsin. Their "pizza" is...interesting.
re: kathryn
Do tell ... Stout, the sports bar near the Garden, makes a "Wisconsin-style" pizza, but I haven't tried it. What's Wisconsin style, hold everything but the cheese?
Stout NYC
133 W 33rd St, New York, NY 10001
re: squid kun
I've had a few different styles in Wisconsin. One was more like a Domino's (chewy, thick crust but without any flavor, too much rubbery cheese, sugary tomato sauce). Another was cracker-y and "party cut" (square grid) with a ton of toppings -- so many that they overwhelmed everything, and fell off every time you took a slice.
re: squid kun
I grew up on the midwest and thought great pizza was found at Godfathers (I felt it was better than Pizza Hut, but I still ate at Pizza Hut, too). :) Godfathers' had thick crust, lotsa toppings. I'd also had Chicago deep dish, which is more like a casserole than what I'd call pizza, and liked that.
But the scales didn't fall from my eyes until I went home with my (then fiance, now husband) to Long Island and had a pie from Uncle Joe's at a strip mall near, IIRC, Smithhaven mall. It was amazing. I felt like I'd never actually had pizza before. :) I also hadn't believed him about bagels (until we went to Long Island, I'd only ever had Lender's from the grocery). :)
The best pizza in my opinion hands down is Di Fara's. Problem is you have to trek out to Brooklyn, wait an hour and a half for a pie, and it isn't the cheapest.
Sad thing? It is worth every bit of the hassle.
I thought this quote from Serious eats was apropos for this thread:
"there are many pizza joints that do a brisk business with the locals yet never seem to get the wider attention and praise they may deserve. Places like this probably aren't quite destination slices (but may be for the true slice hound); however they well represent the archetypical NYC thin-crust style. There is no myth involved here—just cheap, good slices on the quick with no pretension."
The NY slice has been insulted quite a bit in this thread and others and I do think that is a shame. This is somewhat interesting as street food and street eats from around the world are fetishized by foodies here in NY and elsewhere. Yet this humble street food here in NY is overlooked by many. Times will probably change and the NY slice will become the biggest rage in 5-10 years but we shouldn't become slaves to the trends. The NY slice is alive and well and is a great treasure in our own backyard.
re: MVNYC
There was an outer boroughs thread in the last few months asking for people to post their favorite neighborhood slice shops. It wasn't the most productive discussion because everyone chimed in with high praise for whatever their usual stop was, without any real interaction because it was mostly people talking about places no one else had heard of. that said, i think the takeaway was that there are a lot of good but not often talked about slice shops around.
Ill second (or third) what others have said about the average nyc corner slice shop still being, on average, a worthwhile experience, and add to it that disappointments don't usually come out of nowhere (sad looking pizzas languishing under plastic counters = ill take my business elsewhere).
I can most certainly attest to the overestimation of pizza elsewhere (not boston, specifically)t to say that the average pizza in nyc isn't qualitatively better than most other places is just silly (kathryn's "party cut" comment hit home for me - you can convince me that knife work makes a difference when eating sushi, not so much pizza).
Ive only been to Joe's in the village once and it didnt stand out for me, though it could have been an old pie or off day (it didnt seem like it). We have two Joe's here in park slope which bill themselves as "joe's of park slope" and "joe's of the village" respectively. perhaps joe was famous ray's less successful cousin?
re: sugartoof
no, it's a treasure for it's good taste.
in a good shop nothing sits out for hours.They have turnover, especially at meal times.
re: thew
Exactly Thew, its a treasure for good taste. I would imagine that in a few years time the NYC slice will become the new thing much like other street food has or anything from a truck.
Also to say that all neighbourhood slice joints use fake cheese and Cisco canned ingredients is just flat out wrong. It is also insulting to some of the great NY pizza makers in the city.
re: sugartoof
I haven't run across many pizzerias that use Sysco for supplies. Most likely they get from Lisanti from NJ, or Cremosa or DiCarlo on LI, or smaller jobbers who specialize in Italian products. Also never heard of "fake" cheese, unless you mean regular mozzarella like Grande or Sorrento, as compared to fresh? You must be checking out some sad pizza joints.
re: sugartoof
Thanks for the warning. Never have encountered pizza cheese in buckets, sounds nasty. Every place I've ever frequented uses half whole milk and half skim real mozz loaves, which they grate themselves: if they use all whole milk mozz then it's a lot greasier, but a few prefer it that way. One of my favorite places used to drizzle a little olive oil on just before serving, and I love when you get that little drip off the end just before the first bite.
re: coll
Coll - Olive oil grease is delicious, and you're right, the higher end mozz will add wetness.
Unfortunately, when people speak of a classic New York slice, they're not talking about that kind of "healthy" grease. This is the kind of stuff, you often have to dab napkins to soak up the orange-ish grease pool. That's actually part of the appeal for some. Joe's is one of those greasefests.
re: sugartoof
Now I can't even go there to check it out, it sounds too gross. Still imagining imitation cheese scooped out of a spackle bucket. Life is too short for bad pizza.
re: sugartoof
We used to like to eat at John's the best, either one, but we don't get in so much anymore. We get pizza in Brooklyn or the Bronx more often, and have our Meccas. Not sure that we ever had any that we would complain about.
re: Bob Martinez
NY was a good pizza town before this artisinal movement came through. Don't get me wrong I like many of these new places but let's not get too crazy.
re: sugartoof
No one discussed anything of the sort. We were discussing an appreciation of what currently exists. I like both styles of pizza personally.
re: sugartoof
"Then explain saying 'NY was a good pizza town before this artisinal movement came through.' "
What don't you get about that?
I agree with MVCNYC. NY *was* a good pizza town before the artisinal pizza movement showed up. You might not agree. That's why these are opinions, not science.
re: Bob Martinez
amazing that my previous response got moderated - some people cannot handle metaphors unless their meaning is explicitly spelled out. ok in clear terms
it WAS a good pizza town before the artisanal wave, and still IS now
re: jnk
A propos of this thread's original intent, jnk, it would be more instructive to compare the 2007 pizza list with the city's most recent one, and see which pizza places are still in business four years later. That might get us closer to knowing which vendors really earn and then sustain the respect of locals and passers-by.
re: Jeffsayyes
Wow, Sal and Carmine's is great? I take it, their crust wasn't salty as brine when you last went there? That said, where's Paul's pizza?
re: squid kun
Oh, up near City College. Not sure when I'll be there next. Thanks, Squid.


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- Avalon
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|Song details
|Testify To Love
|Number Ones [2012], Track 2
Another Time, Another Place - Timeless Christian Classics [2008], Track 15
Testify To Love: The Very Best Of Avalon [2003], Track 5
A Maze Of Grace [1998], Track 1
|4,914 (−1,039) history »
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|Song lyrics
All the colors of the rainbow,
All the voices of the wind;
Every dream that reaches out,
That reaches out to find where love begins;
Every word of every story,
Every star in every sky,
Every corner of creation lives to testify
For as long as I shall live,
I will testify to love.
I'll be a witness in the silences
When words are not enough.
With every breath I take,
I will give thanks to God above.
For as long as I shall live,
I will testify to love.
From the mountains to the valleys,
From the rivers to the sea (rivers to the seas);
Every hand that reaches out,
Every hand that reaches out to offer peace (give peace);
Every simple act of mercy,
Every step to kingdom come (kingdom come);
All the hope in every heart will speak what love has done.
Colors of the rainbow
Voices of the wind
Dream that reaches out where love begins
Word of every story
Star in every sky
Corner of creation testify
Mountains to the valleys
Rivers to the sea
Hand that reaches out to offer peace
Simple act of mercy
Step to kingdom come
Every heart will speak
Of what love has done
Colors of the rainbow
Voices of the wind
Dream that reaches out where love begins
Word of every story
Star in every sky
Corner of creation testify
Chorus 2x
Testify your love
testify your truth
testify your life
Your love and mercy x2
corrected on September 2nd, 2009
written by Pool, Henk / Van Manen, Ralph / Riekerk, Robert T. / Field, Paul
copyright with Lyrics © Universal Music Publishing Group, Emi Music Publishing
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|11 Comments
|0 likes - like | 03-10-2006 01:16 Jajim
1 posts
|it's amazing
|0 likes - like | 11-04-2006 19:32 aprilchild
9 posts
|Whenever i play Avalon, i crank it up, and sing as loud as i can. Crazy i know, but it's so hard to really testify to love in a society who thinks love is all 'bout sex and feelings, when it's really about how God sacrificed his son for us.
|0 likes - like | 11-03-2006 22:01 meritman
3 posts
|You'll never know how close we came to not having "Testify to Love" recorded by Avalon. The first time the group heard the song, it got a "don't record" vote, but Grant Cunningham, A&R director at Sparrow, took some re-writing suggestions to the writers of the song and brought back a demo of a new version of the song for Avalon to hear. It featured a faster tempo, improved lyrics and counter melodies. Now you know the rest of the story.
|0 likes - like | 10-10-2005 02:08 matt92890
113 posts
|I haven't heard the bridge until today....
|0 likes - like | 29-03-2005 01:32 lizzcatherine
18 posts
|i love this song its so old....mmmm memorys
|0 likes - like | 10-03-2005 23:35 Simple_Truth
56 posts
|This song rocks! I heard it on Touched By An Angel and it was soo awesome because the lady who actually made the song was on the show and performed it, so amazing!
|0 likes - like | 02-01-2005 23:42 Arora
9 posts
|Avalon Rocks!!!!!!!What would we do without em!?!
|0 likes - like | 30-12-2004 17:00 Roseglass6370
8 posts
|Great song!
|0 likes - like | 30-08-2004 19:34 jesuslives890
23 posts
|avalon and jaci velasquez.com are my favorite artists. avalon rocks.
|0 likes - like | 26-08-2004 22:47 mamasboy
1,369 posts
|me too!!! this song is awesome!!!!
|0 likes - like | 13-07-2004 20:01 MexicanHottie01
11 posts
|[b]I like every Avalon song!!
Especially this one!


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Originally written on Turn On The Jets | Last updated 11/20/14
The New York Jets lack the following things: General Manager, Offensive Coordinator, Quarterbacks Coach and of course…a Quarterback. What they do have is a situation that is tabloid fodder for the mainstream NFL media, as constant shots are taken at how undesirable it currently is to join the organization. Nothing is ever as bad as it seems in the NFL but without question, the Jets have work to do. It is hard not to keep referencing back to the off-season prior to the 2006 season for some type of silver lining. The parallels are there. After 2005, the Jets had no GM, were shaky at quarterback and had an undesirable salary cap situation. Rebuilding was the only option and the team was written off for another 4-12 year, with a few more likely to follow. So how did they end up at 10-6 and in the playoffs, along with begin to lay the groundwork for a team who would be .500 or better in 5 of the next 7 seasons? It started with a strong draft, where picks were stockpiled. The team selected ten players, including two first round picks, two third round picks, and two fourth round picks. They acquired an extra first round pick by trading away John Abraham after he was coming off a strong, double-digit sack season. They were able to acquire an extra fourth round pick when Herman Edwards left for Kansas City. The Jets landed two future Pro-Bowlers in the first round, D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold. and found mid-round and late round contributors in Brad Smith, Leon Washington, Eric Smith, and Drew Coleman. It was far from a perfect draft (Kellen Clemens and Anthony Schlegel, anybody?) but it yielded both quality and quantity. Outside of the draft, the Jets cut the fat from their roster: Jason Fabini, Barry Gardner, Jay Fielder, Lance Legree, and Jerald Sowell along with trading away Doug Jolley and Brooks Bollinger. They made the tough decision to part ways with longtime Pro-Bowl center Kevin Mawae. The players brought to the roster were low and mid-level free agents or players via trade: Matt Chatham, Kevan Barlow, Tim Dwight, Andre Dyson, Anthony Clement, Patrick Ramsey, Brad Kassell and Kim Von Oelhoffen. From the crop of new draft picks and free agents, a sizable amount turned into immediate starters and key contributors. Of equal importance, younger players on the roster from the previous year submitted career performances, players like Jerricho Cotchery, Cedric Houston, Victor Hobson, Chris Baker and Kerry Rhodes. Most importantly, they received a stable, productive year at quarterback from Chad Pennington. All these factors meshed with what turned out to be a soft schedule equaled a 10 win season and the building blocks for a generally successful team in the succeeding years. How can this year's Jets emulate a similar model? The fat should be cut from the roster when Calvin Pace, Bart Scott, Bryan Thomas, Eric Smith and Jason Smith inevitably leave town. They will also likely have to make the difficult choice to part ways with Sione Pouha, like they did with Kevin Mawae. Similar to how the Jets traded Abraham at the height of his value, they should consider doing the same thing with Antonio Cromartie, particularly if it yields a high draft pick back. In April, the Jets should be looking to leave with 10-12 players not 4-6 like they have been in previous years. They must stockpile in the early and middle rounds, like they did in 2006. Of course, they also need to hit on these picks like they did with Mangold, Ferguson, Smith and Washington. In free agency and in the trade market, the Jets need to find low-cost contributors and stopgap starters while hoping young players like Quinton Coples, Demario Davis, Bilal Powell, Jeremy Kerley, Stephen Hill, and Kenrick Ellis flourish in bigger roles. At quarterback, they will need somebody on the current roster or a veteran to provide competent play until a long term answer is found. It isn't like Pennington set the world on fire in 2006 (3,352 yards, 17 TDs, 16 INTs, 64.5 completion percentage) but he allowed the Jets to be competitive on a weekly basis. You never know how the schedule will break in the NFL but at least the Jets only host one 2012 playoff team next year (New England). Whoever the new GM ends up being, let's hope they find a little inspiration from the Jets past in their rebuilding process – Stockpile draft picks, don't be shy about cleaning house on the current roster, and bargain hunt in the free agency/trade market.
Original Story: http://turnonthejets.com/2013/01/new-...
PLAYERS: John Abraham, Nick Mangold, Leon Washington, Eric Smith, Kellen Clemens, Anthony Schlegel, Jason Fabini, Barry Gardner, Lance Legree, Jerald Sowell, Doug Jolley, Brooks Bollinger, Kevin Mawae, Matt Chatham, Kevan Barlow, Tim Dwight, Andre Dyson, Anthony Clement, Brad Kassell, Jerricho Cotchery, Cedric Houston, Victor Hobson, Kerry Rhodes, Chad Pennington, Calvin Pace, Bart Scott, Bryan Thomas, Jason Smith, Sione Pouha, Antonio Cromartie, Quinton Coples, Demario Davis, Bilal Powell, Jeremy Kerley, Stephen Hill, Kenrick Ellis
TEAMS: Atlanta Falcons, New York Jets, Seattle Seahawks, Tennessee Titans, Arizona Cardinals, Miami Dolphins
TEAMS: Atlanta Falcons, New York Jets, Seattle Seahawks, Tennessee Titans, Arizona Cardinals, Miami Dolphins
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Sonu Nigam's mother Shobha Nigam passed away on 27th February after prolonged illness and a chautha was organized today. Bollywood celebrities turned up for the prayer meeting. Shilpa Shetty including Poonam Dhillon, Ismail Darbar, Shaan, Ishq Bector, Toshi, David Dhawan, Prasoo
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Comedians Tom Segura and Christina Pazsitsky
Husband-and-Wife Comics Tom Segura & Christina Pazsitsky
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Indigenous Traditional Ecological Knowledge in Agroforestry
While both indigenous and non-indigenous practitioners have developed agroforestry practices of great value, we focus on the role of indigenous, traditional ecological knowledge in this publication.
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USDA Expands Access to Credit to Help More Beginning and Family Farmers
Posted October 9, 2014
The microloan changes announced today will allow beginning, small and mid-sized farmers to access an additional $15,000 in loans using a simplified application process with up to seven years to repay. These efforts are part of USDA's continued commitment to small and midsized farming operations, and new and beginning farmers.
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Through the 2014 Farm Bill, cost share and assistance programs are available for organic producers and handlers for certification. Organic cost share programs reimburse individual organic operators up to 75 percent of their certification costs up to a maximum of $750 per category of certification. The USDA National Organic Program Fact Sheet and Frequently Asked Questions can help organic producers and handlers learn more about the programs and how to participate.
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Ontario Bridge construction to snarl Kennedy, officials warn
BY JON SEIDEL Staff Reporter June 10, 2014 11:38AM
Updated: June 10, 2014 12:01PM
Chicago is a special place in the summer.
The trick will be getting here this month.
That's because, as city and state officials stressed again Tuesday, the Illinois Department of Transportation will be demolishing the 55-year-old westbound Ontario Bridge to the Kennedy Expressway.
To do so, they will close some Kennedy lanes from 10 p.m. Friday to 5 a.m. Monday over three weekends — June 13-15, June 20-22 and June 27-29 — inevitably clogging the expressway traveled by 260,000 vehicles every day, as well as city streets and alternate routes.
It will all coincide with events like the Chicago Blues Festival, the Taste of Randolph Street and Chicago Pride Fest, the Chicago Pride Parade and several other summer events.
"We're expecting a challenge," said IDOT Secretary Ann Schneider.
Here's the plan:
◆ June 13-15: Three lanes on the inbound Kennedy will be closed. The reversible lanes will only be open outbound starting at the middle gate.
◆ June 20-22: Three lanes on the outbound Kennedy will be closed, and the reversible lanes will be shut down.
◆ June 27-29: The eastbound Kennedy exit to Ohio will be closed.
Schneider and other officials encouraged visitors to use public transportation. The Chicago Transit Authority will be increasing rail service and Metra will boost seating capacity on its weekend trains, they said.
They are also reaching out to officials in neighboring states to warn potential visitors to the city.
Detour routes can be found at www.dot.state.il.us/KennedyatOhio/detour.html. Public transportation options can be found at www.transitchicago.com and www.metrarail.com. Sign up for free emergency traffic alerts via text message at www.notifychicago.org.


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We Got Jennifer Aniston To Say Mother F**ker Over And Over
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December 1st, 2010
It looks like there's going to be another hot blonde Michalka sister on Hellcats! AJ Michalka is set to join her sister Aly, who plays Marti on the hit cheerleading show, in a recurring role. AJ will be playing a character who becomes friends with Marti and bonds with the head cheerleader over their musical interest.
The sisters, who in real life formed the group 78violet, will be performing together on the show. Hellcats has already seen performances by a solo Aly Michalka, Ashley Tisdale, who plays Hellcats captain Savannah, and most recently Fefe Dobson.
AJ Michalka's character has not yet been named, but is expected to appear in several episodes. Fans of the hit show are already familiar with 78violet, who perform the Hellcats theme song.
Tags: 78violet, AJ Michalkda, Aly Michalka, ashley tisdale, FeFe Dobson, Hellcats
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This oddball mixed-use space—a bánh mì shop and gemstone jewelry store—has a strong following in the Chinese-dominated neighborhood of Little Italy and beyond. Formerly in cramped quarters on Mott Street, the venue decamped in the summer of 2010 to a brighter, airier setting next door to Enoteca Di Palo. The proprietors brought with them a dramatic goldfish aquarium and a fridge full of exotic beverages, and added a few tall plants and counter seating where you can immediately dig into one of their astonishingly flavorful, overstuffed Vietnamese sandwiches. Most devotees swear by the pork or chicken bánh mì crammed into a baguette with cucumber, daikon, cilantro and chilies. When they ask if you want it "hot," they don't mean the temperature.
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What Are Std Symptoms On Tongue?
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std symptomis scabies curable... Read more »
STD symptoms very scared.HEy Doctor Horwath,I am curious do any other stds cause the same symptoms that HIV causes i.e. flue... Read more »
Relationships Between Perceived STD-Related Stigma, STD-Related Shame and STD Screening Among a Household Sample of AdolescentsIndividuals' perceptions of STD-related stigma (negative societal attitudes toward STD infection) and expectations of STD-related shame (negative personal feelings) that would result from a positive test can be important barriers to STD testing.... Read more »
Ohio: April Is STD Awareness MonthMore than 80 percent of people do not know that they have an STD because most people show no symptoms, according to Ohio's Muskingum County Health Department. Southeast Ohio Regional Epidemiologist Kristen Baker declared, "There were over 200 cases... Read more »
Tongue and Tonsil Cancers May Be Linked to Early Sexual Habits, Research SuggestsOral sex may be extremely common among people in the U.S. who consider it a "low-risk" activity. But oral sex may be riskier than many think -- and, no, we're not talking about HIV. We're talking about human papillomavirus (HPV), which has been... Read more »
Many STD Patients Re-Infected Within MonthsA new report suggests that many patients treated for STDs soon become re-infected. "These infections are often asymptomatic, and that's why we need to do re-screening," said Dr. Thomas A. Peterman, a CDC researcher and the lead author of the study.... Read more »
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Posted by Anonymous, 3 RepliesI WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE KNOWS ABOUT ERYTHEMATOUS CANDIDIASIS???? I HAVE SPLOTCHES ON MY TONGUE THAT COME AND GO. I HAVE SEEN TWO DOCTORS WHO SENT ME HOME WITH NOTHING. I HAVE A HARD TIME CLEARING MY THROAT. CAN THE DIFFICULTY IN SWALLOWING HAPPEN... Read more »
Std???Read more »
Question about STD symptomsRead more »
Symptoms of ARS compared to Herpes or other STD
Well I'm another that did the irresponsible thing and had unprotected sex, and I have symptoms that are consistent with ARS as well as other STDs. Does anyone know or has anyone had the symptoms of ARS and if so what were they for... Read more »
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NEW YORK (MainStreet) — Payday operators have long operated in the shadows on the seamier side of town, but one community bank is looking to bring payday loans into the sunshine of respectability. It offers better rates and has a unique savings feature attached that promotes savings and not spending.
It's not all that strange for banks to be involved in the payday loan industry, even though they likely won't advertise it on a Times Square billboard. Both Wells Fargo (Stock Quote: WFC) and Bank of America (Stock Quote: BAC), for example, have stakes in payday loan operators, but that doesn't change the fact that payday loan outfits have a lousy reputation.
There's plenty of room for improvement, and that's where credit unions are entering the picture. Just look at North Carolina's State Employees Credit Union (SECU): In February, the financial institution launched a "payday lending alternative" called the SECU program, which is available to the credit union's 100,000 members, and offers borrowers a maximum of $500 in payday loans each month.
The credit union estimates that members who qualify for the lower rate will collectively save $400,000 by adhering to the SECU's minimum balance requirements, and Bobby Gardner, SECU senior vice president of loan systems, says program participants save a total of $63 million (collectively) each year by using the SECU payday loan program and not the payday loan outfit down the street.


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In Back Bay meeting, Democrats reprimand Wu for Linehan vote
Feb. 19, 2014
The Ward 5 Democratic Committee voted on Tuesday to formally reprimand At-Large City Councillor Michelle Wu for her controversial vote for South Boston Councillor Bill Linehan as Council president. After a heated debate and a defense from Wu, the left-leaning Democratic Committee's members voted 18 to 11 to send Wu a letter voicing their disappointment and disapproval.
Committee Chairman Ross Levanto called the letter "a pretty extraordinary action by a committee, but not without precedent." The committee previously sent a letter of disapproval to US Rep. Stephen Lynch after his vote against President Obama's health care bill in 2010.
Ward 5 includes portions of the Back Bay, Beacon Hill, the South End, the Fenway, and Chinatown. The Tuesday night meeting was held at the Community Church of Boston in the Back Bay.
Speaking in favor of the reprimand was former Rep. Paul Demakis, who used his own experience as a lawmaker to explain how a legislative leader can shape the debate and values of a body.
"These decisions matter," Demakis said. "Who you vote to put in charge of a body matter. They control committee assignments, they control the flow of legislation, they decide what happens. It matters."
At one point during the debate, the group began arguing loudly, with at least one member demanding that Levanto remove an out-of-order debater from the room.
In a shaky voice, the apparently ailing Wu apologized for disappointing the ward's progressives, who see Linehan as a conservative obstacle to their agenda. She explained that her vote was based on conversations she had with Linehan and the other two councillors who expressed interest in the position, Matt O'Malley and Tito Jackson. After researching the role of the City Council president, Wu said she decided it is a mostly administrative position and so she based her support for Linehan on his promises to decentralize power and staffing in the council.
"So I decided I would cast my vote, my very first vote on the council, on ideas," Wu said.
Wu conceded that she didn't foresee the symbolic nature of voting for a figure as unpopular with progressives as Linehan and the backlash it has caused. As for the letter, Wu said she appreciates her constituents using a formal communication to register their disapproval. She said she will continue to vote based on her values and her own examination of the issues regardless of the political result.
"That may not bode well for me for 2015, but that's the kind of elected official I want to be," she said. She added that Ward 5 has always felt more like a family than a political grouping and said that she's "very familiar with contentious family discussions."
Committee member Sarah Wenig expressed her opposition to the idea that the formal letter was necessary to convey feedback to Wu. "If you felt that strongly about Michelle's vote, you just say something to Michelle," Wenig said.
Executive Board member Fran Burke explained that the committee's leadership wished to address all the talk and controversy surrounding Wu's vote for Linehan and to hold her accountable should the full committee choose to send the letter.
"If they decided to send it, we wanted something that showed our disappointment, but that showed the value of our City Council election. We wanted to move forward," Burke said.
Committee member Josh Zakim, Wu's colleague on the City Council, chose not to vote on the letter to Wu. He told the Reporter his vote for At-Large Councillor Ayanna Pressley for the president's post speaks for itself. Pressley lost to Linehan on an 8 to 5 vote in January.
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Heaven forbid that an elected official should thoughtfully analyze an issue, then vote based on her own informed opinion. Michelle has my Vote. It is rather amusing to see the Ward 5 sheeple getting their knickers in a knot when someone is perceived to bolt from the herd.


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Road Dogg
Real Name
Brian James
Date of Birth
May 20, 1969
Place of Birth
A little bit of controversy was stirred this week when the media got a hold of the dress code implemented by the Hulk Hogan restaurant in Florida. When the WWE legend found out that some people were offended by it, he called the owner of the place and demanded that they take it down. TMZ revealed that Hogan doesn't actually own the establish. He simply licenses out his name for them to use.
September 26, 2014
Earlier this week, wrestling fans were stunned to find out that Sean OHaire had committed suicide by hanging himself. TMZ has now revealed that he did try to get help over the last six years. It is being reported that OHaire attended rehab six times, and they were all paid for by WWE. Unfortunately, though, his addiction to alcohol became too much to overcome.
September 12, 2014
While it normally takes a while for the cause of death to be revealed, it looks like we do not have to wait in the case of Sean OHaire. TMZ, which has been known to cover things related to WWE and professional wrestling in general, is reporting that the former tag team champion committed suicide by hanging himself. Reports are also stating that it was his father who discovered the body.
September 10, 2014
In a sign of just how popular and mainstream Jake Roberts was during the 1980s, several media outlets provided coverage of the WWE legend being sent to the hospital this week. TMZ does a good job of covering wrestling, so they were on the ball with the Roberts story. Huffington Post and USA Today, which does not feature much about the industry, even covered the story.
August 29, 2014
Hulk Hogan has a knack for drawing attention. That's why he has made millions of dollars in his career. The former world heavyweight champion has pulled TMZ in and brought extra attention to WWE this week by exaggerating his supposed real life feud with Brock Lesnar. Hogan is pretending to have backstage heat with Lesnar because the former UFC champion called him "grandpa".
August 21, 2014
In a landscape changing bit of news, it is now being reported by TMZ that Spike TV officials have informed TNA that they will not be renewing their television for Impact Wrestling, which means that Dixie Carter and company are now scrambling to find a new home. People in the industry know that without a national television deal, it is hard for a company to maintain and grow.
July 28, 2014
TMZ has quite the fascination with WWE nowadays. The tabloid website recently reported that Nikki Bella, who recently received her real estate license, was spotted showing homes to Cameron and her boyfriend. The couple is getting pretty serious and is wanting to move in together. Cameron, who is one of the stars of Total Divas, stated that she wants a five bedroom place.
July 21, 2014
When WWE announced that they were releasing several performers from their main roster earlier this month, it caught a few of them by surprise. JTG, however, was well prepared for his release. He had been expecting it for quite some time now. There was an incident a while back where he received major backstage heat from management for speaking out about payment. Since then, his days with WWE were numbered. JTG recently revealed to TMZ that he had started planning around the release way before it took place.
June 23, 2014
A bit of a buzz was created for Cryme Tyme over the weekend, thanks to an interview on TMZ, where Shad Gaspard and JTG informed the fans that they are now teaming up again on the independent wrestling circuit. Gaspard decided to fan the flames even further when he posted on Twitter that the duo should contact Dixie Carter about perhaps signing a contract with TNA.
June 23, 2014
The decision to invite members of the Dallas Cowboys to Slammiversary 2014 proved to be quite an effective marketing move, as TNA was able to garner some mainstream media coverage from George Selvie being involved in a segment with James Storm and Mr Anderson. Among those that covered the incident were Dallas Morning News, TMZ, Fox Sports, CBS and a variety of local affiliates.
June 16, 2014
Earlier this week, it was revealed that Charles Robinson had suffered a gruesome injury while working with the ring crew at a WWE live event in Saudi Arabia. The longtime referee nearly lost his thumb, but fortunately, the company doctor was able to save it. The story was actually big enough for TMZ to pick up. The mainstream gossip website even posted some graphic images of the thumb.
April 22, 2014
In a very classy move by the company, WWE sent two senior officials to Arizona to help the family of the Ultimate Warrior after his death. The move took place almost immediately after the legendary performer died of a heart attack. The story has been picked up by TMZ, and the company has received quite a bit of praise for doing such a good deed.
April 14, 2014
TMZ has a video of Lilian Garcia doing karaoke at a bar in New Orleans during Wrestlemania 30 weekend. It was the same venue where Pat Patterson was singing earlier in the week. Spotted in the crowd were Al Snow and Chris Masters, two former WWE stars. For those that are not aware, Lilian actually is a singer in a band.
April 6, 2014
There are rumors floating around that WWE is going to be asking Jerry Lawler to stop wrestling matches at independent shows. The company was initially against it anyways because they were worried that an accident would bring heat to the company. Vince McMahon is said to be especially leery now that TMZ has published a story on the situation.
April 2, 2014
The relationship between Jim Ross and Vince McMahon has gotten worse. A lot of fans noticed recently that JBL and Jerry Lawler participated in a segment that bashed Ross. That was done because McMahon was upset with Ross for telling an embarrassing story about him that ended up being covered by TMZ. The jabs may continue in the coming weeks, depending on how McMahon feels.
March 14, 2014
TMZ recently caught up with Hulk Hogan at the airport, and the legendary WWE performer gave a quick interview. He plugged his return to the company and the launch of the WWE Network. When asked about CM Punk, he stated that he was not aware of the details behind the situation, but also stated that he hopes Punk is just on a short vacation.
March 9, 2014
TMZ has picked up some further details on the death of Big Daddy V. It has now been revealed that the former WWE star was cremated, and his wife plans on putting his remains into pendants and necklaces and giving them away to his loved ones. That is actually a custom in some parts of the world when a person passes away.
March 1, 2014
Since WWE has signed their father to a contract again, Nick Hogan and Brooke Hogan will be making an appearance at Wrestlemania 30 as well. Nick was interviewed by TMZ over the weekend, and he stated that he and his sister would definitely be at the show. He joked that his mother, however, was not likely to be there.
February 24, 2014
Initially, WWE was not going to reveal the Hulk Hogan return until hours before Monday Night Raw, but management was forced to issue a press release because TMZ beat them to the punch. There are also those backstage that are questioning Vince McMahon privately about not making the announcement on television last week.
February 23, 2014
Prior to his death, Big Daddy V had started taking steps to improve his health. The former WWE reportedly lost 100 pounds in the span of six months. It was confirmed by his wife to TMZ after his death. Doctors had advised him that his blood pressure was at a high level. Unfortunately, though, he died from a heart attack last weekend.
February 22, 2014
While he may not be on great terms with WWE officials, Mick Foley apparently is still on very good terms with a lot of the performers. A handful of them, including Road Dogg, took the time and made the effort to go watch his comedy show in Ventura. The venue is approximately 90 minutes away from the Staples Center, where Summerslam 2014 will be held.
August 16, 2014
Since the company has been releasing people left and right due to the budget cuts, there is some understandable paranoia backstage in WWE nowadays. Recently, people were under the impression that Road Dogg had been released because he was not around for a couple of the television taping. However, it turned out to be a false alarm, as the former Intercontinental Champion was simply on vacation.
July 21, 2014
The belief backstage in WWE is that Road Dogg is going to be winding down his days as an active in ring performer now that Wrestlemania 30 is over and done with. His tag team partner Billy Gunn suffered an injury during the big six man tag team match at the pay per view, so management is contemplating a scenario where they are written off of television.
April 8, 2014
At Wrestlemania 30, Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns completely destroyed Kane, Road Dogg and Billy Gunn in a six man tag team match. The Shield captured the win over the Authority with a triple power bomb on both members of the New Age Outlaws at the same time. That led to an easy pin fall victory for the Shield at Wrestlemania.
April 6, 2014
While plans are constantly being changed throughout the week, WWE currently has Kane, Road Dogg, Billy Gunn, Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins in the opening match at Wrestlemania 30. The belief is that the audience in New Orleans should give these guys a nice pop since all six guys are fairly over.
April 5, 2014
Since management was having trouble trying to figure out where to put everyone, a last minute decision was made to do a six man tag team match so that WWE could get Kane, Road Dogg, Billy Gunn, Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins on the Wrestlemania 30 card. Reigns initially had a much bigger role on the pay per view.
March 25, 2014
In a sign that they still have a good amount of backstage power, Road Dogg and Billy Gunn have been pushing management to let them work with the Shield before WWE has Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins going their separate ways. It looks like the company will be giving them that chance at Wrestlemania 30 in the Kane story line.
March 21, 2014
Management is still trying to do decide what to do with Jimmy Uso and Jey Uso at Wrestlemania 30. While there were plans initially to have them involved in a big tag team match for the championship, those are in jeopardy of not coming to fruition because of the injuries to Road Dogg and Billy Gunn. They're still guaranteed a spot on the card, though.
March 16, 2014
There are those within WWE that want the tag team championship defended at Wrestlemania 30, and the favored match involves Jimmy Uso, Jey Uso, Road Dogg and Billy Gunn. However, the chances of that happening all fall upon Road Dogg, who is currently suffering from a back injury. The Usos could be thrown into the Andre the Giant memorial battle royal if Road Dogg cannot work the tag match.
March 13, 2014
Earlier, it was revealed that Road Dogg and Billy Gunn were both banged up, so WWE opted to put the tag team championship on Jimmy Uso and Jey Uso. Word is coming out now that Road Dogg has a bad back. He noted that was receiving treatment for the injury, and there is still a possibility that he ends up working the Wrestlemania 30 card.
March 8, 2014
The Usos were given the tag team championship recently, so that WWE could help to control the hostile audience at Monday Night Raw. Another reason for the change could be the health of Road Dogg and Billy Gunn. Both guys are said to be banged up a bit, as they ended up working a lot more matches that they initially thought they would.
March 8, 2014
After winning the WWE tag team championship from Billy Gunn and Road Dogg, the Usos decided to pay tribute to their fallen uncle. Through Twitter, Jimmy Uso and Jey Uso posted this special message and picture about Umaga, who is the younger brother of their father Rikishi.
March 5, 2014
While it was heavily rumored to take place at Wrestlemania 30, WWE opted to go with the title change on Monday Night Raw instead, so Jimmy Uso and Jey Uso are your new tag team champions. They were able to defeat Billy Gunn and Road Dogg for the belts early on in the show. The belief is that it was done to help appease the Chicago crowd.
March 4, 2014
On Monday Night Raw, Jimmy Uso and Jey Uso were given a victory over Road Dogg and Billy Gunn, in order to get some heat back after losing at Elimination Chamber 2014. Apparently, WWE does not feel that it is important enough to include in the Hulu broadcast of the show this week. Despite that, the Usos are still expected to be on the Wrestlemania 30 main card.
February 25, 2014
Even though they lost at Elimination Chamber 2014, there are talks that Jimmy Uso and Jey Uso could be given a rematch tonight on Monday Night Raw. Since WWE wants it to be a special episode, they're wanting at least one title change to take place. Road Dogg and Billy Gunn could be the casualties of the creative department tonight.
February 24, 2014
Experience defeated youth at Elimination Chamber 2014, as Billy Gunn and Road Dogg were successfully able to retain the WWE Tag Team Championship by defeating Jimmy Uso and Jey Uso.
February 23, 2014
Jimmy Uso and Jey Uso are about to live out a dream, as it has now been announced that the Usos will be challenging Road Dogg and Billy Gunn for the WWE tag team championship at Elimination Chamber 2014. It was initially believed that other teams were going to be thrown into the mix as well, but it will now be a straight up tag team match.
February 17, 2014
Since WWE wants a tag team championship match at Elimination Chamber 2014, Road Dogg and Billy Gunn are assured of a spot on the card. It looks like management is leaning towards a fatal four way match. The other contestants are most likely going to be Cody Rhodes, Goldust, Jack Swagger, Antonio Cesaro, Jimmy Uso and Jey Uso.
February 16, 2014
While it appears that a push was started for Jimmy Uso and Jey Uso on Monday Night Raw, the feeling backstage is that they are simply being utilized as filler, in order to help elevate Road Dogg and Billy Gunn. WWE did not even bother including their match against Curtis Axel and Ryback on the Hulu broadcast of Raw this week.
February 12, 2014
While some fans online have taken to blaming the veteran performer for not being more careful in the ring, there appears to be no backstage heat on Road Dogg right now for the spot in the steel cage match on Monday Night Raw, where Cody Rhodes injured himself while doing a moonsault off the top of the structure.
February 8, 2014


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County endorses Rocky Mountain Front legislation
Federal legislation to expand protections along the Rocky Mountain Front has received another endorsement, this one from the county where more than half of the affected area lies.
Thursday the Lewis and Clark County Commission voted to back the Rocky Mountain Front Heritage Act. Its endorsement follows one earlier this month by the Montana Fish and Wildlife Commission.
The bill would add more than 67,000 acres of new wilderness to the Bob Marshall Wilderness Complex and grants less-restrictive protections to another 208,000 acres.
The bill is co-sponsored by Montana Democratic Sens. Jon Tester and John Walsh.
County commission chairwoman Susan Good Geise says she plans to ask Republican Rep. Steve Daines to introduce a similar bill in the House that also would expand grazing rights.
Copyright 2014 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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I'm devoted to family and friends and will do anything for them. Friendships from school days and college days mean so much to me.
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- Studio: Lions Gate Films
- Release Date: Aug 4, 2006
User Score
Universal acclaim- based on 284 Ratings
User score distribution:
Positive: 243 out of 284
Mixed: 18 out of 284
Negative: 23 out of 284
Review this movie
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Nov 12, 2010What a snore. I actually came into this wanting to see what the big stink of it was but.....I lost interest quickly. Why do so many people jerk this film off? A bunch of young women get into a bad situation. Boring. They encounter monsters. BORING. They're blind and most of the fights are in pitch black darkness. A little neat...
..then the entire movie is just gore scene with little light, the same monsters and no real build up of true fear, a disappointing ending an nonsensical...well, everything...ugh I just can't understand it at all. It's not that it's confusing to me, I just don't see AT ALL what people liked about it. So glad I only paid $3 in Xbox space-bucks just to see it otherwise I would've walked out of the theater had I seen this in one.
Boring. Boring. Boring.… Expand
Jun 13, 2011The movie was a pretty good horror movie but the issues come from its atmosphere. The movie falls victim to the problem of not developing the characters well enough to be able to tell who they were in the dark. The movie is set in an underground cave. This is a very cool and scary setting but the issue come from the fact that it is very dark underground. Most of the action scenes become cluttered and hard to tell what is going on because of the darkness. I am sure that this movie would be great on a big screen or in the theater but for normal folks its an issue. If the director had done something to help the viewer be able to see better, I would have rated the movie better.… Expand
Sep 19, 2011Trash of a film. I repeat. Trash. Horrible. Great acting, but NO PLOT! Lacks so, so much. Worst movie of the year thus far. As fulfilling as starting at a wall.
Apr 28, 2012Ok, what can I say? First, that I am puzzled...I just cant get how people think this is the 'best horror movie ever' , a 'classic', seriously? Well, I never felt it. Classics and good: films like The Omen, Carrie, The Birds, The Exorcist, TCM, and others...this...for God's sake...has to be a joke! I strongly believe his is bad. Incredibly overrated. Many also also say the performances are great. As someone who has worked in performing arts (Mostly in theatre, which is what I truly love), let me tell you that the performances are terrible! At least that is my opinion as someone who has seen a lot of both good and bad acting.
When I rented this movie I expected something different, smart horror, opportune gore. After 25 minutes -that are unnecessarily slow- I started feeling sleepy...30, 40 minutes...well I basically gave up. I don't care if there was gore after, or monsters, or whatever. It is just so frivolous. I felt no empathy for the characters. Not that it was required for this type of film, of course; but there is no real development of their personalities...it is all pretty shallow. The photography was good, and the idea interesting indeed; but that is not enough to make a movie good. Tension? Almost none. If blood is all you want...you will get there, but only after the first 45 min; have a nap before! For those who do not share my point of view, fair enough; but sincerely, I hoped to watch a decent film, and what I found is something flat, less than mediocre that I will never recommend to anyone and I have no intentions to watch it again...perhaps I will finish watching the last half. I shall do that, while I am having a nice glass of a great sauvignon blanc from the Malbourough region (NZ) and a creamy Tasmanian brie cheese... that I guess, will make it more bearable.… Expand
Jun 29, 2012There is no point to this film. None of the events have any reason to occur, the main character is useless, all the characters end up in a dire situation because the token retarded yank decided that they should all play explorers and went into a cave system with NO idea what they were doing. You end up just hoping that they will all die quickly so you can do something else.
Brutal, bloody, terrifying, astonishing... And so tense it'll leave you aching. The most significant Brit chiller since "28 Days Later."
The chills and spills keep comin' to agreeable effect in Brit-made scarefest The Descent.
All in all, this is an accessible art house horror film whose trailer and premise do not do justice to the end result.


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NTSB faults pilots in deadly Asiana crash
Updated On: Jun 24 2014 11:47:32 AM MDT
Pilots botched the approach and landing of Asiana Airlines Flight 214 in San Francisco nearly a year ago, causing a crash that killed three people and injured 187 others, U.S. safety investigators concluded on Tuesday.
But the National Transportation Safety Board also found that crew training and the complexities of a key flight system on the Boeing 777 and how it was described in operating manuals contributed to the July 6 disaster.
Investigators, however, primarily faulted the crew of the Korean-based carrier for not fully executing intricate systems of the jetliner packed with more than 300 people before it struck a seawall and careened down the runway trailing sparks and debris.
In a final report on their probe, the board found that the flight crew mismanaged the plane's descent being carried out without the help of navigational instruments and one of the pilots unintentionally deactivated a system that automatically regulates airspeed.
The crew also delayed its decision to abort the landing with the plane flying too slowly to avoid catastrophe, investigators found.
Copyright 2014 by CNN NewSource. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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ACES Events
Mark Rosen's All-Star Evening
August 7, 2014 - 5:30 p.m. - 8:30 p.m.
Crowne Plaza Minneapolis Downtown Northstar
Races 4 ACES 5k Fundraiser - Sign-Up Now!
Saturday, October 18, 2014 Lake Cornelia (Edina)
For sponsorship opportunities, please email Liz McLoone-Dybvig.
More details on these exciting events to come soon!


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November 26, 2014
October 13, 2006
Cooking in the kitchen is the leading cause of fires in the United States and many of them happen when people leave or just get distracted.
"The only two fire deaths we've had in the last year in Albemarle were related to cooking incidents," said Inspector Joe Gould of the Albemarle County Department of Fire and Rescue.
They're often centered around the stove and frying.
"The first thing you do is turn off your source of ignition, which is right here in front of the stove and then put your lid on. In most cases that should take care of your problem right there," said Gould.
If not, you can always try a fire extinguisher or baking soda.
"If you happen to live in a home with wooden wall paneling and you have a toaster that's too close to the wall paneling, they didn't mean to do it, it just happens," said Gould.
It's not just where you put these appliances, but also where you store combustible material.
"Separate those things that might be inherently toxic or inherently flammable, or eliminate those things you really really and I mean really don't need," said Gould.
Fire officials also recommends an evacuation plan that includes a place to meet once you exit the house and a means of getting in touch with the fire department, whether that's a cell phone, car, or neighbor.
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