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Thursday, September 25, 2014
U15G - U15 Girls Youth Soccer
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Was the talent at EPYSA ODP down because the regional players weren't there or like has been already mentioned that the older high school age kids are opting out? Out of the 70+ kids do you think 18 will make a competitive team if the other states haven't seen the same changes (big if).
- September 9, 2014 at 9:47 AM
@8:24 - I can go on forever bout the flaws of GS, but probably the only area in which it can give a reasonably accurate view is for the state rankings. Assuming most teams in a given area all have access to the same tournaments and leagues and play each other occasionally, it can give a decent picture of the teams within the state. However, with the ECNL teams starting to diverge in terms of the events they participate in, those teams are usually misrepresented (at least the ones I've seen should usually be ranked higher than they are). It's also very regional. There are a lot of GD tournaments in Region 1, so many of the teams can get points simply by playing in a lot of tournaments (they don't necessarily have to win much). Go down to NS, and they use Soccer in College almost exclusively,
I personally do not like many aspects of how teams can 'artificially' accumulate points, but it is one of those things that is a necessary evil. Like you mentioned, if you want to gain acceptance into top tournaments, and into the top flights, you need points.
Recently, our team has started playing teams that we have not faced in the past and looking at GS points/rankings to determine the strength of the team has proved to be pointless. You can get some idea by comparing similar opponents, but that's about it.
- September 9, 2014 at 9:58 AM
That should read "There are a lot of GS tournaments" and "Go down to NC"...
- September 9, 2014 at 10:18 AM
Got Soccer is a necessary evil because it is the only "objective" tool. We know the problem of teams chasing points so the correlation between ranking state, regionally, or nationally is suspect.
For individuals, you love it if you have them because you can say that look at us we are ranked so high. And for those that don't have points say, we don't chase points so it's not reflective of reality.
Clearly, the ECNL situation means that those clubs are not part of the GS dialogue anymore. I doubt anyone really thinks Match Fit ECNL is 33 or the Gunners are #4.
- September 9, 2014 at 12:53 PM
For people who called me a spoiled parent for talking about leaving the club after 2 losses. The problem with certain leagues is that it is club centered. So only a small number of clubs in our area provide access to a specific league. The clubs get way too much power. In our case, they are trying to force a coach and players. Last year we won, we don't need new players. Why should we take players who wouldn't make the team unless the club was forcing them upon us. All the club does is provide fields In this case, the club is trying to fix things that weren't broken.
- September 9, 2014 at 5:16 PM
5:16 No argument that some clubs are club focused, some clubs are winning focused, and some are very political. You come on this blog and complain about your situation after 1 week. Teams develop, coaches have a plan, and parents are either on board or not. I have had issues with coaches and you do your homework. Then if the situation is not a fit you leave. That's what my daughter did not for lack of winning, but she had a different view than the coach. But complaining about a team that seems to be newly formed in the first few weeks makes you come across as a bit of a whiner.
- September 9, 2014 at 6:22 PM
5:16 what league do they currently play in?
- September 11, 2014 at 8:19 AM
Anybody have an idea what PDA is trying to accomplish with the Bridgewater partnership. The cynical side of me says it's another attempt to dangle a carrot and say your kid too can make the ECNL. Does this mean that PDA will be looking to set up a bunch of mini-PDA to feed the larger beast?
Bridgewater Soccer Association (BSA) is excited to announce that it has entered into a strategic alliance with PDA (Players Development Academy), the leading youth soccer training organization in New Jersey, and one of the leading youth soccer organizations in the country. This initiative will provide the chance for BSA to recommend its top players for evaluation by PDA and will create opportunities for all BSA players to attend certain training sessions with PDA professional trainers. BSA believes that through this new affiliation with PDA, BSA will continue its mission to offer a truly outstanding soccer experience for local youth players in Bridgewater and Somerset County, one that is focused entirely on development and growth of the youth soccer player. BSA is thrilled about this opportunity to work with PDA to build the best development platform for its youth soccer programs.
Dan Adams (BSA Coaching Director) stated, "The BSA-PDA affiliation will allow our club the chance to identify talent and give players the opportunity to excel toward the very highest level of youth soccer both in the USDA Boys academy system and in the ECNL for the girls. The BSA board is committed to enriching and building the complete soccer experience for its players. This is a relationship that is being made for purely soccer reasons and to build a healthy soccer network in our local area."
Sam Nellins (PDA Director of Operations and Boys Academy Director) Stated "It is with great excitement that we partner with BSA and Dan Adams. Having a club right on our doorstep which exercises the same thoughts and ideas in and around player development will allow for a thriving partnership. We look forward to the day when the very best BSA boys and girls make valuable contributions to our ENCL girl's teams and our Boys Academy Program. We look forward to hosting BSA players and coaches to our PDA training sessions and sharing ideas. Being so local excites us and we look forward to working with BSA to enhance player development in Somerset County"
- September 11, 2014 at 1:20 PM
I suspect PDA will gain free use of BSA fields close to their home base. PDA needs the fields. Pretty sure the next PDA tournament will see BSA fields in use.
- September 11, 2014 at 1:53 PM
"Does this mean that PDA will be looking to set up a bunch of mini-PDA to feed the larger beast?"
Um, no it doesn't, PDA has three non ECNL teams and all they promise joint practices with the ECNL team in hopes of girls moving up. Well only one girl was called up and she still plays for the South. Money, people!! This new E team will also have deep pockets.
- September 12, 2014 at 9:08 AM
9:08 Are there girls at PDA south that are good enough to pay on the ECNL team? Wearing the 3 letters alone doesn't make you ECNL ready. Looking at the history of the South team, its history has been mixed at best rarely beating top competition and losing to a lot of weaker teams. Isn't this the team where PDA often feels the need to bring in ECNL players to help them win. The real question may be why PDA doesn't bring more kids from the C & D teams to the B team.
- September 12, 2014 at 9:38 AM
The ECNL rosters reveal many US club affiliations of the kid in question over time. Just click on the name and the profile comes up. I think there are quite a few kids on the current PDA u15 ECNL roster who were on the pride and even the "B" NPL team. How much playtime they get, I don't know.
- September 12, 2014 at 10:15 AM
There have only been 2 girls rostered to the ECNL team. The one last year was a disaster. She was promised a lot, she was rostered but rarely played. She felt she was an ECNL player and the plug was pulled on it mid year. This year is one rostered to the ECNL club. We will see whether the second trial work, I think the player will mainly be a Pride player but time will tell. There have been a lot of promises on this and very little delivered on PDA side. It is a source of contention and been devisive for the team becuase more players feel that they should be getting an ECNL shot.
- September 12, 2014 at 10:32 AM
@1038 why does everyone stay then? Parents have been made these promises for three years now and it annoys everyone but come tryout time, you are all in JJ's ear about your daughters.
- September 12, 2014 at 1:03 PM
1:03 Everyone is different, but there are a few reasons.
1: Ego (more parents than kids) - people will put up with a lot to wear the letters
2: Lack of available clubs in the area - If you live South of Westhampton, where are you going to go and then you have to break into a new club
3: People have hope: More and better college showcases, coaches will listen to the PDA name and look at your daughter and of course the ECNL hope.
Funny though that there is a core of kids that stay and get in the coaches ear like you say, but year after year, we fail to attract new kids. It's a reality although probably not what PDA wants, but if you you play on the Pride, your place on the team is pretty safe.
Everyone knows there are a lot of empty promises, but the hope remains. Who wouldn't want to travel up and down the Northeast to play B and C teams.
- September 12, 2014 at 1:58 PM
Does PDA even have an E team anymore? (Athletica). It's the only team without a roster on ecnl site. Maybe PDA finally cut the cord and put the team out of it's misery.
- September 12, 2014 at 2:33 PM
Only 1 team per age group is listed as ECNL site. PDA's ECNL teams are all listed. Why would Athletica be listed on ECNL site?
All the same old comments regarding PDA. Why stay? They promised? why pay? It's all about wearing 3 letters? on and on and on. Here are the facts mom and dad, if Suzie Q is good enough to be on ECNL team she will be, if not well they will put her on a team that best fits her ability. Here's another thing - if you have been with the club since the beginning it does not entitle Suzie Q to anything. If a girl walks right off the street and she is better than an ECNL player she will be on the team. What surprises me is that B,C,D,E parents / players don't understand this, regardless of what PDA promises.
I'm not a PDA parent but trust me its the same at every ECNL club.
- September 12, 2014 at 3:56 PM
A, B, C, D, or E, for a lot of people it is about those 3 letters. The promises come down to opportunity. The kids at the other sites don't ever get looked at. I can't even remember a single time the the DoC of the North or the Coach of the Gunners ever watched the Pride play. So in this case you are left with a single coach who is making these decisions trying to protect his own team. If he were to lose 2-3 of his better players that team would be average at best. I is naive to think that PDA doesn't restrict movement of kids between teams to make sure that their teams remain competitive. The Pride can't have too many state cup losses like last year before the whole thing just becomes one big embarrassment for PDA.
- September 12, 2014 at 4:24 PM
Disney Showcase accepted team list posted
- September 12, 2014 at 5:44 PM
The DOC of the south is a pawn in the parents hands. He is too easily swayed by certain parents.
- September 12, 2014 at 6:18 PM
for you envious PDA haters, it's Atletica, not Athletica OK?
- September 12, 2014 at 9:32 PM
No hate, just stating facts. A bit defensive, aren't you?
- September 12, 2014 at 10:34 PM
9:32 What part of the recent discussion is not true? Is the best answer you have is that someone referred to the team as Athletica. A lot of people are impressed by what the Gunners have accomplished, and they are an impressive team, but there are a lot of wannabee Gunners that will take any line of BS is fed them to where the 3 letters and hope someday that it will be them. What has PDA built in this age group after the Gunners, a few underperforming teams that can't attract the best talent. And if the previous poster is correct, if you have a pawn of a coach that is influenced by parents then you are paying for exactly what you shouldn't be paying for when joining a club like PDA.
- September 12, 2014 at 11:04 PM
Previous poster is correct, coach / DOC is a tool, has a few select parents in his ear all the time. I am waiting now for the email that states " please stay off the blogs" we get one every year. His minions are always ready to rat out the disgruntled.
- September 12, 2014 at 11:58 PM
Tool and pawn. And a liar, but hey, at least he does it with a smile. Amazing anyone still swallows the BS. IF YOUR KID IS GOOD ENOUGH AT ANY AGE, AND HAS HIGHER AMBITIONS, GET AWAY FROM SOUTH AND FIND A WAY TO GET THEM UP NORTH, OR FIND ANOTHER ECNL TEAM! Pride will be a good NPL team, that's it. I only say this if your kid has higher than D3 aspirations. The older south teams placed lots of girls, but they are just about done now, and are graduating soon. These girls went to south before the ECNL really had made an impact. Your kid is not seeing the top competition. When there is only one team in your division, and you have to go all the way to MA to get it, how does your daughter get better?? She will stay the same if not challenged. Better off right now in EDP over Northeast NPL. Great concept but not enough quality players to field competitive ECNL B teams.
These clubs rarely promote from within. Why would they? They have your fees on b team, and now see a nice player that would fit in with ECNL, now they have your fees and their fees. The sooner you realize this the less aggravation you will feel.
Unless South or Shore finagle a way to break off, and become separate, to gain entrance into ECNL, you are just playing for any other good club team in NPL and there are many of them. If you think your kid is good enough for ECNL, take them to another tryout. If they are good, they will get an offer, if not they will be offered a spot on NPL team. At least that way, you honestly know that they would be good enough, instead of whining about not being called up. Sometimes they are just not good enough in the eyes of who really matters.
At this stage they would have to be better than the starting 11 to break into the team. You don't replace subs with like subs.
- September 13, 2014 at 1:20 AM
I asked the following question earlier but nobody took a bite.
Here goes again -
What is your expectation for being 'exposed' to college coaches?
D1 Full Ride?
D1 no scholarship?
No doubt PDA can (and often does) get your player in front of more college coaches on a formal level. But do you have any idea what that actually gets your player? Especially if they are not a stand out 'A' team player?
Lots of D2 and D3 rosters are full of Academy and traditional Club players on their rosters playing side by side. MOST do not get any money.
- September 13, 2014 at 11:12 PM
What is going on at FC Virginia? The marriage with ABGC Premiere appears to be rocky. FCV tied Richmond ECNL today 2-2. They went 2-3 in Greensboro. This week, several departures of former ECNL players off the NPL team to Mclean. The NPL team is barely able to field a team Rumblings of displeasure within the FCV ECNL team.
Every team Gus has coached has switched coaches around U15 over concerns that his style is unable to win against elite teams. This year, Gus appears to have problems winning against elite level teams.
The real question is what is Terry Foley thinking. A strong advocate for player development, teaching soccer the right way, and not recruiting teams has gotten in bed with everything he has fought against during his career and the marriage appears to be headed for another Cindi Harkes-style divorce.
- September 13, 2014 at 11:24 PM
11:12 Every believes or hopes that their kid is a D1 prospect. Everyone believes that will get some school money, and people think that magically a PDA coach can take a good player and turn them into a great player. The reality is that on the non-ECNL teams,the coaches take any kids to fill out the roster which is not good for the coach, the team, or the player.
- September 14, 2014 at 1:42 PM
Clubs like PDA exploit the naive parents with all their talk of college coaches. The south DOC will tell you privately he will "build a team around your daughter" and " get her in front of the top college coaches". We will see how many of the current Pride U15 girls get "seen" by D1 coaches AND get offered full or partial rides.
- September 15, 2014 at 12:13 AM
I don't understand the PDA roster listings. last year (U14) many of the kids are listed on more than one roster including the NPL (B team?) Pride (same as NPL?) and even the u15 (NPL) B team. I can think of reasons that this could be OK, but what are they doing? Are they providing the bottom of the bench more play time? Are they trying to improve some of the kids' confidence? Are they trying to win B level games? I doubt its just the bottom of the roster kids though because one of them was sent to ID2 camp. Usually that's a top of roster kid. Will anyone shed light on the situation?
- September 15, 2014 at 7:58 AM
@ DC Shore, from what little I have learned I'll take a somewhat educated estimate at your question.
There are over 300 D1, 200 D2, 400 D3 schools.
Top third of the ECNL or teams of equal caliber get accepted to the top 150 D1 schools with 8k – 12k per year. The top third of the top third get full ride top 25 caliber team.
The bottom 2 thirds of ECNL & equal caliber smaller academy types, top third of ECNL B teams and very high level town clubs get the lowest 150 D1, top level D2 with 4k – 8k per year.
All other avid soccer players who put in the effort to pay in college get lowest D2 & D3 with a possible 2k-6k per year.
I make these estimates under the hypothesis that all our u15 girls desire to play at the highest level of college soccer they possibly can. Although, in reality I know this is not the case. I believe most intelligent kids & families are factoring in academic curriculum, financial situations, urban or rural atmosphere, career opportunities after 4years of college, graduate opportunities after soccer, and so forth. That is why highest level D3 can beat lowest level D1.
- September 15, 2014 at 8:35 AM
Please provide a ink as to what roster listings you are talking about. Last year one Pride player was rostered with the Gunners as well and this year the same thing. There hasn't been that much other moving around and those kids have not played with the Gnners very much. I believe they have chosen token players every year to make the point that "you too can become and ECNL player." I do think clubs within the US Club system are free to move kids around, and the Pride Coach has been notorious for Guesting Gunners with the Pride for tournament presumably becasue he was not confident in his own team's ability to win.
- September 15, 2014 at 9:00 AM
9-13 11:24 - FCV made some big logistical errors it seems. They may have overestimated their ability to smoothly field teams in multiple leagues/events and manage all of the parents expectations. For all the PDA criticism o this board, at least they set their teams as rank ordered (I think, from the posts). It appears FCV tried to create several teams and tell everyone that all teams (including teams within teams - meaning their ridiculously large 30-player ECNL group)and tell everyone that all the teams would be elite and not really A,B and C teams.
So the parents were unpleasantly surprised to learn that there is actually a pecking order and that some players are considered part of a top group, a group that gets preference for important games/events.
The sad truth is that FCV probably could have pulled it off with some more reasonable expectations regarding the logistics and better transparency with the parents. The people looking to leave already might have been more willing to stick it out if they had been given the straight truth about how it would be initially.
Great question re: Terry Foley. This all seems to go against what he has stood for in the past. From where I sit, it seems to be mostly about the money and maybe somewhat about the parents of top players pressuring the club to do things a certain way or they walk. FCV was able to convince ~50 families to join up with the understanding that all players would get chances to play with elite teammates and at an elite level. It just wasn't true.
- September 15, 2014 at 9:20 AM
9:20 The original plan at FCV was simple and made alot of sense.
Two teams. One team to play ECNL. The other team USYS. 16 girls assigned to each team with an addition pool of 6 to 8 to flat. That would have given FCV a pool of 40 players each have their own dominion and ability to showcase and do well in their respective leagues.
The problem was that meant most of the Premiere players would be playing USYS and not ECNL.
So the plan changed to please the Premiere parents so the entire team would come as a group.
What ultimately happened is the original plan with a much smaller pool of players (30 vs 40)
upset feelings because the divisions weren't revealed after the season started.
Here is where the plan went off the tracks: THE PARENTS.
Premiere was sold they were coming to play ECNL as a team
FCV was sold Premiere is not coming as a team, Christian is the coach.
What ended up was a ole school DC style compromise that didn't make sense.
The result a new school DC style partisan bickering with the old Premiere parents upset that their team can't play as a team and blaming everyone that they are not winning as much as accustomed. The old FCV parents upset because they can't play USYS and Premiere is taking ECNL opportunities.
The end game, your guess is as good as mine - but considering the Harkes fiasco - not looking good.
Especially if they go 1-3 or 2-2 in next couple games and the Mid Atlantic conference championship is a long shot and the round of 32 is looking questionable
Does Premiere elect to take all their best players to the National League in an attempt to maximize their results in USYS at the behest of ECNL games.
Ultimately it is about stakeholders. Here is how they plan out.
Christian/Terry - ECNL is all that matters
Premiere parents - Winning is all that matters
Other parents - Sanity is all that matters
Gus - Money is all that matters which means keep the Premiere parents happy
- September 15, 2014 at 11:02 AM
Interesting, but what is the Harkes fiasco?
PDA link:
click on the players name and then look under player history and see all the teams the player has been rostered to at least within the club
- September 15, 2014 at 11:31 AM
FCV already lost an entire 99 team coached by Cindi Harkes. It happened two years ago right at the start of the Pre-ECNL season.
- September 15, 2014 at 12:07 PM
The Chantilly team hat went to McLean? Why did they pull out of FC VA? How is it working for them at Mclean?
- September 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM
How is the Harkes fiasco from two years connected to the Premiere team?
Seems four or five Chantilly players went to the Mclean 15 ecnl and about same to the 16 encl. Looks like around seven from ecnl side are also on the u15 green team roster. This must be the two team plan with the 6 to 8 cross roster that 11:02 AM describes. Seems they did that last year too when they were U14's and sent their better 5 or so to play with the green team and got bounced out in the first round of state cup.
Won't have wait long to see if the FCV scheme works out better or worse than the two team scheme of 20+ each with 6 to 8 double carded.
Big rosters don't seem uncommon for ecnl teams. Mclean 15 ecnl has 22 rostered. Since a poster said several of the 50 from fcv left for mclean recently, are they being added to the 15 ecnl? Roster going to 25 or 26 like the Mclean ecnl 17, and 18 ecnls? For the clubs, FCV or Mclean or "any club"... is it about the money?
- September 15, 2014 at 10:56 PM
Indirectly about the money. The more teams from rec to ECNL/DA in a club, the more justification there is for higher salaries of the doc and any other coach driven administrative positions, technical director etc. (which should be included in the doc job description in my humble opinion). Justification has to be there to keep the not for profit tax exempt status of the club. Theoretically there is a bod in place to ensure the compliance of the club. However the bod is made up of coaches and also parents hoping for special treatment for their kids. The bottom line is it is in the personal financial interest of the doc and coaches to grow the club as big as possible.
That's why the DA and ECNL are important. First it alone requires some administration helping to justify salaries, but also brings the prestige and marketing to the club to ensure maximal growth and sustainability.
PA Classics is the perfect example of this phenomenon. Give credit to Steve for recognizing the potential in the DA before most others did. They got their name in early, before they even had teams at each age level! Through their brilliance or some old boys club, to which I am not privy, they were awarded a DA spot. The club exploded in size and I am sure the DOC and coaches salaries with it. Now they are starting to build little kid rec programs as feeders, but again more justification for higher salaries.
Not that I think money is the only incentive for growth, I think they get a chest thumping- mine is bigger than yours type charge out of the size of their respective...clubs.
- September 16, 2014 at 8:15 AM
How is the Harkes fiasco from two years connected to the Premiere team?
Because FCV already lost a team in this age group. There is a very good chance they might lost another one.
If the team goes 0-3 or 1-2 in the next few weeks against Mclean and CASL. Gus and the parents are going to want to send the best players to USYS and Terry/Christian will want them for ECNL games and that is genesis for a major confrontation.
The Harkes fiasco started because John was asst coach for a team and Terry didn't feel the team was being developed or winning enough.
When Terry made a move against John, Cindi was collateral damage.
If Gus is unable to win in ECNL. Terry is eventually going to make a move.
And like last time, the parents have more loyality to coach and team and not the club.
And Terry believes everyone is club first.
- September 16, 2014 at 10:38 AM
Does Atletica even exist anymore? No roster posted under PDA Club North U15 on ECNL site, where the rest of the PDA B-E teams rosters are posted.
- September 16, 2014 at 10:57 AM
The PDA website still lists Atletica on its site. The ECNL site only lists the ECNL roster and a few of the girls are rostered to other PDA teams as well and the player profiles note this.
- September 16, 2014 at 11:26 AM
The PDA B, C and D teams are all listed under the ECNL website. Keeps all the parents quiet.
- September 16, 2014 at 5:20 PM
There is one U15 PDA team listed on the ECNL site - it has 20 girls on it. None of the other non ECNL PDA teams are on the website.
There is a "team web site" tab on it that takes you to the official PDA website? If that's what you call being on the ECNL website you are really reaching.
- September 16, 2014 at 9:28 PM
928 scroll down on the ECNL website to the club teams.
- September 16, 2014 at 10:07 PM
Got it I stand corrected. I
- September 17, 2014 at 6:08 AM
What I can't figure out is why are you all that concern you can't find or don't know where to find a youth soccer teams players roster........ Oh and just for information purposes there is no sure thing as ABCD...EFG teams at PDA. We are just one club and one age group. I just have to SMH sometimes at folks.......
Eric Harris
- September 17, 2014 at 10:42 AM
Eric, ABCDEFGH is semantics. There is an ECNL team, that is the "A" team. There is a are 2 NPL teams those are "B" teams, and you know that there is a pecking order within PDA for those 2 teams. I am not sure where the PDA Shore team is playing just yet, but they are not indicated as an NPL team, so they would be the "C". I know you have something special with the ECNL club and that's awesome, but I think sitting on the top of the perch looking down at the rest of the club makes it easy to call it one big happy family. You don't see many Gunners parents coming on to this blog and airing dirty laundry, but you sure do see it from the other teams in this age group.
- September 17, 2014 at 10:59 AM
10:59 Those are very distant B teams as well. While the Gunners are cometitng for National Championships and winning tough tournaments, the other teams haven't yet proven capable of winning 3 or 4th brackets in major tourneys and they inflate by beating up on much lesser teams.
- September 17, 2014 at 11:07 AM
Funny only a Gunner parent refers to PDA as one big happy family...
- September 17, 2014 at 11:55 AM
ROFL. Yes, last summer's Gunners B and Atletica teams were so happy they left en masse and took themselves right over to Matchfit. PDA then somehow got a new crop of Atletica kids willing to pay PDA pricing for JAGS level competition. Am curious to see if this past summer's Atletica roster left as well?
- September 17, 2014 at 12:35 PM
I've seen all the PDA teams at this age group. There is the Gunners then everyone else. I look at them as having one A team and three B teams. The level of play on all their B teams is very high. Yes, only the A team is competing nationally but you can make an argument that the three B teams are all in the top 10 in the state of NJ. How Many NYE, PAE or Connecticut teams are competing for national titles?
Where we live geographically, it would not make sense for my daughter to play for any of their B teams. There are 1 or 2 teams just as good as their B squads but closer to our home but I would be very proud of my daughter if she was a solid contributor to any of their teams. BTW, there is no such thing as a big happy family. There are kids and parents on every team, from the highest level to the lowest level that are not happy with their situation.
- September 17, 2014 at 12:41 PM
10:59...I disagree with that because I have been up at PDA since U8 and I have never heard of any system of ABCDE...etc NEVER. See I look at it as the ECNL team is a team within the club. Does it make the club.....nope but its a team within the club. PDA treats all of it teams the same and hold them all accountable as being part of the club. In the outside world does the ECNL hold more weigh.....well maybe in some of your clubs but not at PDA. WE ARE ONE.....no in my opinion you dont have to like that or even agree with that I will say I agree to disagree. I will say that my daughter has played games for Atletica, Pride, Gunner and newly Shore if she is asked to. See at PDA I think that is what gets people on the outside annoy or upset. What people need to get a grip on is that we are ONE CLUB and in a club kids should be able to play throughout the club. Heck its their club (meaning the kids). Now the pecking order statement is soooo untrue. Trust me there is no such thing that exsist at PDA. Do coaches have different preferences sure they IDEAS....nope. They all follow the same rule and when it comes to that and that DEVELOP those that come walking through the doors. Why would HAPPY people get on here and air dirty laundry about a place that they like or represent. I dont get your point. Thats like saying why dont people from Matchfit get on here and air their dirty laundry.....noway you would see that happen if they are happy. Only people that are mad or upset get on here and spit venom and try to go off the wall. Its like breaking up with your girlfriend or divorcing a wife I would imagine. Your going say whatever you can to try to keep others from dating or even thinking good about the other. I am okay with that because for eveyone that can come on here and spit fire at PDA there is then me that will come and refute what they say and guess what...........PUT MY FIRST AND LAST name to it as I am daring them to do so many times because they know me and I tell it how it is and I will never hide from anyone. I refused to hide from my club my kids coaches etc. What I say, I say it because its my feelings and my truth and why shouldn't I defend a place my kids call home (PDA). Why wouldn't I defend a place that many of friends who are now at MATCHFIT, FC Copa, FC BUCKS, WORLD CLASS , now Albertson, Freehold, etc. who have left for the best opportunity for their child I still stand here and defend PDA because they are still PDA in my eyes. I tell them all the time when I see them.........NO MATTER WHAT YOU ARE STILL PDA....as they smile. We still a happy family and we are still ONE GROUP ONE FAMILY ONE CLUB......
11:07....you say very distant B teams....which makes me know that you have never been at the PDA. Do you realize who makes up the GUNNERS, MATCHFIT, FC COPA, PRIDE,.........ATLETICA does and those player on those teams are some of the top players in the country. So B team......I laugh at you cause it lets me know you have no clue. See PDA is a system and a true and close to an ACADEMY system on the girls side as it can be. My kid has played some games for Atletica, Pride and I am sure SHORE if they need her to. She is part of the club and in her age group there are now 4 teams where she can play and not help the team but continue to develop through play and time on the ball in game situation. Hey look at some of these teams as Gunners, Matchfit, COPA, Freehold, FC Bucks, etc. LOOK at how many have Atletica ties. We are ONE CLUB. They are not worried about how many games they can win as a CLUB but more or less how many kids they can develop and turn into fabulous citizens and soccer players.
Eric Harris
- September 17, 2014 at 12:43 PM
12:36... I would respond to this but in doing so I would be disrespecting the people I know who are at MATCHFIT and surely as honest as I would be or what I could say about your statement is that the GRASS is not always GREENER on the otherside and that I KNOW FOR A FACT........so if you are really curious about who is happy just ask around your sidelines lol lol lol...Like I said FOR A FACT............
12:41...I agree with you but My kid has played some games for Atletica, Pride and I am sure SHORE if they need her to. She is part of the club and in her age group there are now 4 teams where she can play and not help the team but continue to develop through play and time on the ball in game situation. Hey look at some of these teams as Gunners, Matchfit, COPA, Freehold, FC Bucks, etc. LOOK at how many have Atletica ties. We are ONE CLUB. They are not worried about how many games they can win as a CLUB but more or less how many kids they can develop and turn into fabulous citizens and soccer players. Trust me and I know this for a FACT.........All the girls that have come to PDA and decided to leave for a better opportunity elsewhere I will tell you this YOU ARE WELCOMED BACK at PDA and this they know for a fact and PDA would love to have them back because whether you like it or not those kids are PDA kids in my OPINION so whocares if you are GUNNERS, PRIDE, ATLETICA, and now SHORE you and WE ARE PDA and WE ARE ONE.....oh and I know some will be mad but for those who haven't been to PDA yet we are waiting for you to come join our family and we would LOVE TO HAVE YOUR FAMILY JOIN OURS.
- September 17, 2014 at 12:56 PM
Eric, we missed you!! keep posting, I love the amusement
- September 17, 2014 at 1:31 PM
I'm not sure which lie is bigger One big happy family, or we are not worried how many games the club wins.
A lot of people put up with PDA because of the perception of what it brings, does it deliver - the jury is still out, I have no doubt it will deliver for the ECNL team - for the rest...that is still an open question.
- September 17, 2014 at 2:03 PM
1:31....Hey I miss myself...what you talking about lol lol lol....Trust me when I say that we are one big happy family thats not a lie. Now is it my OPINION.......yep but I stand by my opinion because its mine. No one puts up with PDA.......and certainly you have some perception that where your family is at is the best place because guess what.........YOU'RE STILL THERE trying to throw darts at PDA where to me I am here BRAGGING about PDA I am BRAGGING about what a great PLACE and ENVIRONMENT IT IS.....what can you say about your childs club..........NOTHING not one word not one little nice thing like hey Eric my club has great coaches also or hey Eric my club is the best thing for my family and better than anyone elses. NOPE instead you are trying to convince everyone or those that will listen that PDA is this place for kids to die or families to be torn apart........CMON SON. When you mention ECNL I look around like what or who is he talking about.....The only one or ones that care about the letters ECNL are those that want to be in it. Listen man trust me if your child or children work their butt off and play this game as they love it and EVERYDAY they wake up and they go out there and work to be a better player......DOES ECNL really matter.......not to the true ballers as myself and many others because let me close the JURY with this......ITS NOT ABOUT THE LETTERS ON YOUR CHEST......NOT ABOUT THE LETTERS of the LEAGUE you play in..........BUT and ONLY the PLAYER that is behind those letters that makes the difference. Ever think about what AAU team Michael Jordan played for the Larry Birds, John Stocktons, Allen Iversons of the world played for also.......THEY JUST WENT OUT AND BALLED and that made the difference.......
Eric Harris
- September 17, 2014 at 2:21 PM
I love PDA, it's just like hating the Yankees.
- September 17, 2014 at 2:51 PM
Larry Bird and Allan Iverson are great examples of what is wrong with youth sports. I can assure you they weren't paying thousands to get trained. If those 2 kids were playing Girls Youth Soccer in 2014, they would stand little chance of getting recognized. They would have little outlet to get recognized, and they probably wold have selected a different sport because soccer is today a sport of privilege. Show me how many inner city or rural players have emerged through the soccer system. Nope, clubs like PDA have ensured that those kids have little chance of emerging.
Yes, those were true ballers. Our youth soccer has destroyed the idea of having true ballers. The backyard or street game is what ensured that Larry Bird and Iverson could develop, and that's what is hurting the US competitive in global soccer.
I write against PDA and I will continue to because I think the ECNL structure and NPL structure and what's being done with US Soccer will ensure that a diamond in the rough from French Lick, Indiana has no shot in Youth Soccer. PDA, yes your DoC has restricted access to more ECNL Clubs in NJ when there is capacity for more - we wouldn't have 2 if he had his way. Yes, it bothers me that US Soccer led by PDA puts a college showcase up the same week as the Disney. For what purpose? They want to be the only place for the Elite or very good soccer player to be seen. How does PDA care about the development of players and then go in direct competition to the major USYS Showcase event. It may help US Club Soccer and PDA, but how does that showing any caring for US soccer as a whole when you are trying make coaches make a choice between NPL and Disney? Who does it hurt, the USYS player. Being on the outside looking may actually give some people a clearer picture.
As to my daughter's club, I will comment and defend if it is ever relevant. My daughter plays for a decent club that would be competitive against any PDA NPL team but not competitive against the Gunners. She loves playing for her coach, and we pay about $1500/year plus travel.
Her club is not relevant because her club doesn't wield the power to influence the whole NJ or National soccer landscape as your club does.
- September 17, 2014 at 3:18 PM
3:18 - you talk about depth (money for training), but what about reach. I grew up in a small town of 1,000. 2 hours south of DC. No girls soccer. No travel soccer. If we hadn't moved to the "big city" my daughter's natural skills (and she was doing this since U4 when we first put her on the field and she was one of the small kids and is fast, but by no means fastest - she happens to have great footskills and balance provided by her creator before any soccer coach arrived on the scene). How many Larry Bards in Anytown USA are sitting out there without access to the sport because in small town america there is football, baseball, and basketball and many times limited access for girls to sports that don't produce revenue.
- September 17, 2014 at 3:43 PM
12:56 you miss my point. I couldn't care less whether people who left PDA are unhappy today at MF. I was just stating a fact that two entire teams left PDA at end of U13. My curiosity only extends to ask the same question - did another entire team leave PDA this summer?
Also whomever is claiming the NPL PDA teams are top in NJ is smoking crack. Other than Gunners, I have yet to hear that Pride or certainly Atletica has beaten any top NJ team. Now maybe some teams have folded or merged over the summer,, leaving space in the top 10, but last year you had real NPL teams like NJSA, Stallions, Copa, Toms River, and strong EDP teams like freehold and SJEB. And also Matchfits ECNL club.
Then there's a gap where second teams from each of the aforementioned clubs are competitive at: PDA B-E, Copa B, NJSA B, STA, matchfit B, etc...(in no particular order).
Just because PDA creates a second tier bracket in their own tourney and puts their NPL teams in it, does not make them elite teams. Similiarly, just because PDA crested a new NPL sub bracket and puts all their non ECNL teams in it, does not make these teams competitive. They have to EARN a top bracket spot in national tournaments to be respected at that level.
- September 17, 2014 at 4:07 PM
Let's not forget they PDA also helped to rig the Jeff cup so that there are a guaranteed number of spots going to NPL teams. As like a lot we have been discussion here, PDA and similar clubs are actively trying to exclude clubs who are not part of their cabal once again forcing decisions not based on how you play, but who you are.
- September 17, 2014 at 5:00 PM
Ugh. Here we go again...
- September 17, 2014 at 8:10 PM
Eric Harris,
I still do not know if that is a real guy. It has to be a player/child acting as a parent. It just has to.
Eric, I'll also accept your challenge. I LOVED watching the Freehold Celtic beat PDA in the State Cup. While I genuinely felt bad for the PDA girls who worked their butts off and you could tell REALLY WANTED to win, the Daddy Coach from Freehold who has been spitting out quality players (all extremely well trained) for close to 10 years now still managed to compete despite having his roster repeatedly depleted over a number of years. MANY of his players playing now in places like PDA. So there, that guys is a genuine hero. GOOD for the sport. His players play a great game. Win/Lose/Draw. I love it.
Since it's time to ring in this board (yet again) with the PDA banter. I'll throw my annual volley.
I would love to see the PDA Gunners play again because it has been two years for me. They played THE GAME last time I saw them...which is easy to imagine because they have grabbled all of the big, tall, fast and previously trained kids all of these years. A VERY GOOD/Great team when I saw them last and I have no reason to believe based on what I have heard/read that they are anything less now.
The remaining PDA teams are all teams most of us would be very happy to have our children on but they are from anything stand out especially as compared with a good quality Club Travel coach/program. . I have seen the two other teams (not Sure just yet but that is mostly NJSA parts) them play multiple times this past year alone and they are capable of good/very good play but I also see a lot of kick ball, bad decision making (repeatedly because they are not being asked to think) and a general lack of composure. IN TRUTH that is most teams but this is PDA time.
What PDA IS NOT is a Player Development Academy. They are a Business Development program centered around soccer. I applaud their success (genuinely as a business/marketers) but their practices (and other like them) are BAD for US Soccer Development.
But again, they can be very good for a select number of players...which at the end of the day is all that most parents genuinely care about. Because they can't even be bothered to watch soccer when it does not directly involve their own child.
On a much happier note...thankfully there is soccer being played by other age groups not yet in High School.
- September 17, 2014 at 9:19 PM
That's the reason behind the BSA press announcent. PDA is having a hard time keeping a static roster across all ages on it's C/D team at Zarepath. neighboring Bridgewater provides a steady stream of kids to fill that roster. That revenue is necessary to continue the boys program. Also provides PDA with more fields for it's tournaments.
- September 17, 2014 at 11:53 PM
FYI. The Gunners are not big at all. They are be ry technical. A relatively fast slightly above average size striker. However their midfield and wide forwards are actually generally small or smallish. They play very nice soccer. Won't argue that many were not developed within, but that is the nature of a pyramid. Haven't some on here been clamoring for a pyramid system? Well it already exists. Like it or not they have become the apex of the pyramid from central pa to NYE to DE and beyond. Their success last year is undeniable. You should actually plan to go see them. No I don't have a kid in the team. But my kid has played them within the last year.
- September 18, 2014 at 5:15 AM
I believe it about the Gunner. Again, I have not seen them in two years. Basing it on previous viewing. At one point they definitely were a 'bigger' team but is probably when they were a bit younger and the first to develop...others have caught up.
YES a VERY STRONG technical game is what I saw from them. Not a single thought of kick ball. I loved it.
- September 18, 2014 at 7:30 AM
@ 4:07 I'm not saying the PDA B teams are elite. There is only 1 elite team in NJ and that is PDA Gunners. I'm saying that the PDA B teams are arguably in the top 10 in NJ after the Gunners.
To quote your own words "leaving space in the top 10, but last year you had real NPL teams like NJSA, Stallions, Copa, Toms River, and strong EDP teams like freehold and SJEB. And also Matchfits ECNL club." You only mentioned 6 non PDA teams, NJSA is now a PDA team. My point is there are the Gunners, maybe 1 or 2 other teams that are clearly better then PDA B teams then the next group of teams that PDA B teams fall into. Last season the Pride beat Breakers ECNL, NJSA A team & SJEB & PDA Atletica beat EMSC ECNL & CFC ECNL just last season. Their B teams can play with just about any team out there.
- September 18, 2014 at 8:31 AM
Sept 17 3:18pm…….I don't where to start but I will say that fact that you remain anonymous has me scratching my head but I see why. Parents are the problem with YOUTH Sports not the SPORT itself. Soccer has been around for ages and ages. Nothing has changed about it with the exception of some rules maybe. Trust me if the Larry Bird and Allen Iverson and Michael Jordan's of the world were playing Youth Soccer today in young females body and were BALLERS as they are….they still would make it because BALLERS are always gonna BALL and nothing is going to stop them from getting what they want because they love it for the game and not because mom or dad wants them to. Ballers are those kids that you see dribbling a basketball or tossing a football in the air as they walk to school or getting yelled at in the house for playing ball because they knocking over stuff because they just can't get enough of it. In my opinion those are what TRUE Ballers do and no matter what those are the kids that will make it no matter what.
I agree soccer is too expensive for the real ballers but money doesn't matter to them because you don't need the system to make it you just have to be able to except 1000 NO's before someone says yes. Only in this soccer world does the letter on your chest or league that you play in matter….NONSENSE I say find yourself a place where your kid can flourish and grow as in PDA for me. I am not worried about the letter on my kids chest I worry about the environment that they are in and there is NO BETTER PLACE for my kids then the PDA. I can sit here and listen to people on this board complain and want to burn down the place and burn it down for what……because their kid is not there…..they charge too much for tuition….your kid wasn't picked……. That only tells me that, that person is not a TRUE BALLER or was never one because I tell you what and since we are all adults here and anyone will tell you this about me. I am as COCKY ARROGRANT SWAGGERLIOUS, (LOL) CONFIDENT, and although I have never played the game of soccer I am a BALLER and if I did play no one could stop me because I am that good and I am going to MAKE IT anyway. The letter on my CHEST would not matter but put me in the environment that I could flourish as a PDA and I would rip it up. Now back to my point is that PARENTS have RUINED that not soccer. PARENTS have and just look or YOUTUBE parents fighting at youth football games. You would be amazed. See PARENTS have ruined youth sports because they get on BLOGS as these as THROW DARTS at little girls or the teams that these girls are on but the justify it as they are only talking about the team. Excuse me …..(not you) but DUMMY who do you think makes up that team…little girls. It's never amazes me but PARENTS that have it correct and are not the problem would never do that. IT IS THOSE PARENTS that we read on this BLOG week in and week out that try to or think that they are safe and come here to get out frustration.
Eric Harris
- September 18, 2014 at 9:23 AM
831 well by your login, Pride should have no problem taking the state cup this spring, unless the coach reconsiders.
- September 18, 2014 at 9:23 AM
Sept 17 3:18pm…….let me continue lol lol I figured I get long winded and I do and guess what…………..I don't care lol lol if I could write a book on here I would because as much as some will complain guess what……………THEY READING IT………lol lol lol see I told you Im cocky and that's all I care about is that I say what I want how I want.
Okay see although what you wrote is GREAT for conversation and its your opinion and I respect that but its your opinion based on what……………well put it this way I will tell you like I tell my kids and I try to tell them you can tell a lot about a person in how they handle others and what a person is really made of by if they can look you in the eyes and say the words they mean. See I put my name to every post I write because someday my kid will figure out from either a friend or someone random that this site exsist if she hasn't already and I would want her to know how I feel and what I think and let her know that I am who I say I am. I set the example whether good or bad I set it as well as my wife. Now my point is that you sit here and you point out and you TRY to BLAST our DOC………….I would say shame on you but hey you do that because I will sit here and defend him also. See as you sit here and throw a blank dart at him its you that sits here ANONYMOUS and can't even put your full name first and last name to what you write or even better what team or club. See that's whats wrong with SOCCER…….PARENTS as I said and sometimes COACHES that come on here and try to throw darts at other teams ANONYMOUSLY…….WHOAAAAAAAA I almost sunk the ship on that one………
I will say this that has always been taught to me and to my parents and for generations. People will only talk about you if you mean something to them….GOOD or BAD…If you are relevant and if you are doing good people will talk about you………The fact that you are talking about PDA and blaming them for EVERYTHING under the sun………….I say JOB WELL DONE………I definitely glad that my kid is at PDA because that means she is at a PLACE in your eyes and opinion CONTROLS all in soccer. HEY EVERYBODY reading this you better hurry up and get over here. THIS IS THE PLACE TO BE I am telling you.
Eric Harris
- September 18, 2014 at 9:53 AM
Sept 17 3:18pm…….let me continue you say PDA is not a PLAYER DEVELOPMENT ACADEMY……well my kid has been there since U8………..who has developed her then………….I'll wait…….NOW has PDA Developed the whole state of NJ……………I think not but if given the chance they would and try to make each and every kid better. I do know that. Can they help everyone……….NO that would be foolish to say. That's like saying every teacher in school EDUCATES every student. THEY TRY and they work hard to do it but some kids are reached by different approaches. Doesn't mean that, that teacher is bad well maybe bad for that kid but not bad. PDA is great and I will say this is it for everyone NOPE its sure not and I will say this cause I know that its MATCHFIT people that write some of this stuff…..not all but some of it. Listen MATCHFIT is a great place it really is. No matter how much some of you complain and you know who I am talking about because you called me yesterday lol lol hoping that I didn't put you out there but MATCHFIT is a great place because it is giving your child a place to continue to grow. Now is it a great place for everyone NOPE but is an option that has to be in place. Is it the best option……..YES it is for your kid or any other that is there. I cheer for all those kids because hopefully there is a BALLER there that is going to make it regardless of the letter on her chest and represent the USA someday or maybe even New Jersey in college and on the professional level. That what I feel and that's my opinion. Certainly I will blame NO ONE for my kids short comings or lack of play. I will hold them and them only accountable because they come from a long line of BALLERS in our family and trust me we don't play the BLAME game and certainly I don't have remain ANONYMOUS to voice my opinion. Just imagine if everyone had to register their real name and Club Affiliation………this BLOG would be EMPTY lol lol lol. Listen you said some good things in my opinion but when you take the PDA out of what you said and lets say put in any team or club. Its really can apply to anyone and in my opinion PDA gets blamed for everything that goes wrong with REC soccer in Canada basically lol lol. Once you and other can get the hatred or what we like to say the HATE in your blood, once you can get that out you will just like me and really LOVING and ENJOYING where your kid is playing. and trust me $1500 is still TOOOOOO MUCH to pay for soccer so your club is not off the hook in my eyes. I will bet you that there are people in the area of your club that would love to play for them but can't afford it. WHY does soccer cost $1500 PER KID can you maybe explain that………..better not don't lol lol ITS PDA's fault I got it.
Eric Harris
Proud Parent of a
U15 PDA player and
U9 PDA player
- September 18, 2014 at 10:33 AM
PDA must be so proud that Eric is their mouthpiece....
- September 18, 2014 at 10:55 AM
9:23 I can assure you that the Pride will not expose themselves to the type of embarrassment they felt this year in next year's NJ cup.
- September 18, 2014 at 11:29 AM
Throwing darts at your DOC?
Fact: PDA actively lobbied against Match Fit gaining ECNL Entry, and NJ Jersey based on the population and kids playing soccer has the capacity to 4-5 ECNL Clubs when looking at other states.
Opinion: PDA wants to be the only game in town for ECNL in NJ. Yes it would take time to develop but demand should match the supply of quality players. Because of the lack of supply, we have ECNL level kids playing on NPL Clubs or second team players on ECNL clubs. I beleive PDA wants it that way.
Fact: PDA is hosting and was involved in the NPL College showcase planning which is going in direct competition with the Disney Showcase.
Opinion: PDA, other clubs like PDA, and US Club Soccer wants to try to push kids into their development model and relegate. There are 52 weeks in the year but the exact dates of Disney was the best week they could find to host their showcase. I believe if US Club soccer and PDA and others really cared about overall Youth Soccer in this country thaey would be happy to see other systems and leagues flourish and then come together at major tournaments and compete.
Fact: The Jeff Cup will be guaranteeing spots to NPL teams limiting the spots for teams that play really well but aren't NPL affiliated.
Opinion: US Club Soccer driven by powerful clubs like PDA want these tournaments to be closed. I have argued many times that a closed system is bad and now we see the Jeff Cup also moving to a closed system. Tournament spots should be earned not because you play for an NPL club.
Those are facts, and I do believe that we have seen the early signs of how our changing system is bad for the development of US Soccer. I don't know how any of the above is good for US soccer, but I am sure Eric will have an explanation.
- September 18, 2014 at 11:44 AM
10:55am........I am not PDA's mouthpiece but I am yours. I was always taught to defend the people that are not strong enough or capable to defend themselves. My mouthpiece is yours and I speak for you and you only. Because you can't and don't have the courage to do so.
Eric Harris
- September 18, 2014 at 12:03 PM
11:44am...........You state no FACTS.........Just OPINION. Here is a the only FACT that is stated......."Anonymous said".......THATS A FACT. You are only stating your OPINION and thats okay but not FACT. ANOTHER FACT........those that throw stones shouldn't live in GLASS HOUSES......THATS A FACT
Eric Harris
- September 18, 2014 at 12:09 PM
Is there a solution to developing the outstanding player that is unable to access such expensive high level training and competition?
The "not for profit" soccer clubs have no incentive to do so when they have no shortage of paying customers.
- September 18, 2014 at 12:32 PM
@12:32 - re: "Is there a solution..." - Not on the girls side. At least on the boys side the professional clubs affiliated with DA's have incentive to develop kids and have been moving towards a low-cost system. They benefit in the long term for investing time and money in prospective players.
Without a financially viable women's league that has the resources to follow suit, the development burden is left up to those who want it (i.e. the parents & kids). No colleges are going to invest in any such programs. Why should they? Why would they spend money to develop talent only to turn around and spend more money by giving them scholarships?
On the boy's side, there are probably a fair number of kids who want to play soccer beyond college (or even skip college), and play professionally, either domestically or internationally. On the girl's side, it's all about exposing talent to college scouts in hopes of getting scholarship dollars.
- September 18, 2014 at 12:48 PM
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- September 18, 2014 at 1:08 PM
Soccer is a game, a great game, but a game. Play where you can afford it and enjoy it.
If your child is not challenged in her situation, she can play up with older more skilled players or perhaps on the boys side (if they are more skilled which is not always the case.)
- September 18, 2014 at 1:11 PM
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- September 18, 2014 at 1:48 PM
1:08......I see what you are saying but I am me and I can only be me. My name in lights.......okay if you say so but no lights here and I dont care for the lights but I have something to say I say it and I will continue to put my name by it. This is a U15 Blog so opening up her teammates to what we are on a U15 Blog I hope everyone here has someone in this age group. Yeah maybe some people are living through their children........I am not and believe most of the people on her are not.......well I hope. They just want better and if they aren't getting that they want to point a finger. Now I know you would like me to stop but to be honest your ANONYMOUS also so to me...........I guess its just your opinion on what you think I should do. Well I am not you.....
Eric Harris
- September 18, 2014 at 1:48 PM
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- September 18, 2014 at 2:03 PM
Keep banging that drum. The volume is overwhelming the rest of the band.
- September 18, 2014 at 2:07 PM
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- September 18, 2014 at 2:28 PM
Eric, please explain to me how these these things are not facts, they are absolutely facts. Granted on the third point whether PDA has actively lobbied against other ECNL teams in NJ is heresay, but if you compare California, Texas, VA, CT in population and kids playing soccer, NJ is underrepresented at the ECNL that is a fact, that is a simple mathematical calculation. Are we just to assume that soccer in CT. is so much better than NJ that they can justify 2 teams for 4 million people yet NJ can only justify 2 teams for 9 million people.
I'm interested in your explanation as to why US Soccer is putting an NPL showcase up the same days as the Disney Showcase. And do you believe PDA played no role in this as it is being hosted at their fields? DO you believe that this is good for soccer overall.
Fact: The Jeff Cup will be guaranteeing spots to NPL teams limiting the spots for teams that play really well but aren't NPL affiliated.
Fact: PDA is hosting and was involved in the NPL College showcase planning which is going in direct competition with the Disney Showcase.
Fact: PDA actively lobbied against Match Fit gaining ECNL Entry, and NJ Jersey based on the population and kids playing soccer has the capacity to 4-5 ECNL Clubs when looking at other states.
- September 18, 2014 at 2:29 PM
Business Development Academy - FACT
- September 18, 2014 at 2:34 PM
Wow once the facts are presented about PDA's reign over NJ soccer, we hear crickets from their big happy family.
- September 18, 2014 at 10:52 PM
Sorry but I was busy doing some things but like I said what you say is an opinion and there is no need for me to discuss or debate an opinion when for a fact I know your view and you know mine. I agree to disagree with you, without name calling.
Eric Harris
- September 18, 2014 at 11:26 PM
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- September 19, 2014 at 8:15 AM
The Players Development Academy Inc, (PDA) is a 501(c)3 non-profit corporation dedicated to the promotion and development of youth soccer in New Jersey.
Our mission is:
To provide a unique opportunity for youth from underprivileged urban areas in New Jersey to participate in the Urban Academy soccer program; to encourage good sportsmanship; to encourage teamwork; and to learn the necessary skills to play competitive youth soccer throughout the United States.
To provide exceptional youth soccer players with a challenging program that will offer opportunities to compete in national and international competitions, with a goal that these players will gain exposure to enhance their opportunities to further their development as student athletes at the college level.
To put a year-round "soccer-only" training facility in place with top quality playing surfaces, lighted fields, and an all-weather field turf -- an environment through which players in the academy can reach their full playing potential.
This is PDA's mission statement..they never claim to be trying to promote US Youth Soccer..their mission is only to help their players and I guess they rationalize that helping themselves helps their players.
They are very sucessful at this..good for them.
Outside of giving access to under priviledged youth, why promoting high level youth sports and providing lighted turf fields should be not for profit escapes me. By all means go ahead and pursue a sport at the highest level you want...but why do I have to subsidize that as a tax payer? It is legal but I resent it.
- September 19, 2014 at 8:38 AM
8:38 I agree with your broader point that PDA will do what is in its own self interest, however, the first sentence of what you wrote from the PDA mission says "The Players Development Academy Inc, (PDA) is a 501(c)3 non-profit corporation dedicated to the promotion and development of youth soccer in New Jersey."
So they do have the broader mission to promote and develop Youth Soccer in NJ. I guess what it should read is "the promotion and development of youth soccer in New Jersey as long as it occurs at PDA.."
- September 19, 2014 at 8:56 AM
8:15......I can say what I say because what you say is your OPINION based of your current interest in.......I don't know. You are ANONYMOUS and to me that only says that you what you say is an OPINION in my eyes. Heck you could be right and surely you could be wrong. In my OPINION FACT is based off more. In my culture and how I was raised I have always kept and lived by never judging a book by its cover but only by the content that it has when you open it up and read it and disect it and then read read it again. Thats just how I was raise and continue to live. Who knows you being ANONYMOUS and your answer could be that you are BLINDED and only see one side because of your STATUS in a particular club or organization. Who knows I don't know that. I dont know who you are. I just know that you are ANONYMOUS and that you have a point to be made for some to hear that will agree with you. I am not that person because I can only see a cover and I would never judge you or the content that you say by that. Is it FACT....only you really know that. Is it OPINION...yes in my OPINION what you say is OPINION driven by......your dislike (I hate the word HATE) but dislike for the club that my kids belong to. Will I defend them and those that are part of that CLUB.....yes I most certainly will. BLINDED not at all just LOYAL to my children and this is their PLACE of happiness and this is their FAMILY and to me IF YOU STAND FOR NOTHING......you'll FALL for ANYTHING. I stand for PDA and I assume you STAND for......but thats your choice why you have to remain ANONYMOUS along with other but to me your are one of the reason why SOCCER environment in this country is BAD. I say that and I will say this to others and its MY OPINION. You run around here on this message board throwing ANONYMOUS DARTS and for what......you'll afraid by using your name someone will throw them back at you. Well listen I blame you and since you are having an educated convo with me and you are trying to EDUCATE me you fail to really TEACH due to fear. I don't know you but I am sure I do but you have or seem to have the KNOWLEDGE to TEACH and not just your club which I could be wrong but I assume MATCHFIT but I blame you because you should be obligated to TEACH all of us PDA, NJSA, MATCHFIT, FREEHOLD's HOLMDEL etc. You have the knowledge but in fear of the DARTS that will come you remain ANONYMOUS and out of fear your outraged and BLINDED by your own fear. What you say is an OPINION in my eyes but I will sit here and take the DARTS that are thrown and take the banter from ANONYMOUS folks as I "TRY" to learn from all of you and although what I say is MY OPINION but it is a clear FACT that I am Eric Harris and I live in fear of no one but GOD himself and I dont have to worry or look over my should wondering if someone will know its me posting or not. I am free and believe it or not I LOVE THE FACT that MATCH FIT is part of the ECNL I wish there was more but I don't make that decision and from your words NEITHER do you but I will say that the FREEHOLD CELTIC is one heck of a team and they are not and ECNL team at all but whocares they kick the mess out of everyone in NJ and represented NJ well this year going forward. I am so proud of those girls what a run they had how bout that...AND THATS A FACT....
Eric Harris
- September 19, 2014 at 10:18 AM
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- September 19, 2014 at 11:00 AM
These are simple questions not darts that you won't answer. Take your example of Freehold, yes a terrific town team. Let's say they decide to go to the Disney Showcase, why is it good for soccer that the NPL puts up a showcase the exact days of Disney. Who is that good for?
Let's say a Freehold or a club like Freehold get's rejected from the Jeff Cup because the Jeff cup is reserving spots for NPL teams. How is that good that a more deserving team can get cut out of the Jeff cup because spots are reserved for NPL teams?
These are pretty valid questions to ask about the current soccer structure and environment. It has nothing to do with the Gunners, the Pride, Atletica, or PDA Shore.
I believe that PDA has been a driver of these changes that I believe are bad for soccer.
I write my posts because my daughter plays for a mid-level club that has overachieved. She is is very happy with where she is and her teammates and has no desire to leave. But I am angered because I believe that PDA, with US Club Soccer, and other larger powerful clubs are trying to destroy all paths for talented kids that doesn't follow the path that they want.
My daughters's team is planning to go to Disney this year, and I cannot understand that if you are focusing on the kids, why it is good for the kids to actively try to split coaches who ordinarily would focus on Disney.
My daughter's team will be applying for the Jeff Cup, her club does not have a name alone that get them accepted. They need to have performance to get them accepted. So now the spots for the Jeff Cup are being limited because NPL teams are guaranteed spots.
I believe that PDA has been a vocal advocate for these changes that I think are absolutely horrible for the future of youth soccer.
- September 19, 2014 at 11:08 AM
Eric dude your message would be more clearly heard if you didn't ramble so much and addressed the issues directly. The caps are like throwing a temper tantrum- not helpful in getting your message across. The guy made some statements that clearly are true facts. Why not focus the discussion on his interpretation of what these facts mean to youth soccer. There you could have a respectable debate. What he states is largely based on facts, but his interpretation of the facts' significance to youth soccer and development is opinion and can be argued. Don't try and deflect away from the facts, focus the debate on your opinion of the implications to our children in particular and in general youth soccer development. You have much to add but can do more to help your message to be heard.
- September 19, 2014 at 11:36 AM
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- September 19, 2014 at 11:51 AM
10:18 That has to be the most idiotic response to anything I have seen on this blog.
The poster stated that PDA is hosting an NPL Showcase during the exact same days as the Disney Showcase. That is an undeniable fact.
We get it, you are the only brave soccer parent on the east coast that's willing to put your name on this blog and that that will be your answer to everything. Give it a rest already. I'f you'd like, we can give you a medal.
You write a whole diatribe that avoids answering any of the valid questions asked. Man, like someone said the other day, it's time for you to stop embarrassing your team/club.
- September 19, 2014 at 12:01 PM
Could Youth Soccer Talk please create a Love or Hate PDA Forum so all of the garbage can be cleared out and go elsewhere. It does not matter what the age group is, it's all the same stuff on every Board. Unfortunately one of my daughters is U15 and this Board is by far the worst. It's the Jerry Springer Show of Soccer Boards.
- September 19, 2014 at 12:20 PM
12:20: My question isn't the same I hate PDA, they charge too much money and don't develop kids talk. I have asked 3 questions and there is not been one response suggesting that they are good things and I write it because I believe it restricts opportuntities for kids whether it is PDA being a driving force behind it which I believe they are:
1) Why is it good and what's the purpose of having an NPL Showcase 1 hr away from Disney on the exact dates? My only assumption is that it is a big FU to USYS Carded Clubs that are trying to get exposure for their players.
2) What good is it to lock up spots for NPL clubs at the Jeff Cup potentially restricting access to other high performing teams.
3) Why is NJ underrepresented in the ECNL compared to other well-respected soccer states. The numbers clearly show that NJ has the capacity for 4-5 ECNL clubs.
Yeah, I believe PDA is a driving force of these things, but the real question is why is there this active process to divide kids and clubs and why is that process good for any of our kids.
- September 19, 2014 at 12:43 PM
The PDA subject is tiresome, let's talk tristate soccer. Anyone feel charged up enough to talk top teams for this year. Let's exclude ECNL as they won't be playing our clubs.
Top 5 no particular order.
PA Strikers
Fc Copa
Put them in order, add or subtract as needed.
New teams to add? Up and comers? Has beens?
- September 19, 2014 at 1:11 PM
Stallions Quickstrike, Santos and Copa all on the Disney Accepted list. It would be nice to go down there and not have to play each other first two days. Other Clubs that are good to recognize, NEFC, North Rockland, Smithtown,
- September 19, 2014 at 1:35 PM
11:36am........Rambling lol lol lol I remember once I stayed at the Rambler (only certain will know that from Match Fit) But I stated CLEARLY what what was being said is an OPINION and not FACT....no need for me to debate someone's OPINION I agree to disagree with them being that they are entitled to an OPINION as we all are.
Eric Harris
- September 19, 2014 at 1:36 PM
I agree, I am tired on the whole PDA discussion especially if the other end of the discussion cannot even accept that the sky is blue.
NEFC IMO is the best club in the region I think they have been several of the teams mentioned., we will see if they hold up this yearas I believe they lost a few players. Quickstrike ended the year strong last year. PA Strikers are probably in the mix as well.
- September 19, 2014 at 1:48 PM
I agree, I am tired on the whole PDA discussion especially if the other end of the discussion cannot even accept that the sky is blue.
NEFC IMO is the best club in the region I think they have been several of the teams mentioned., we will see if they hold up this yearas I believe they lost a few players. Quickstrike ended the year strong last year. PA Strikers are probably in the mix as well.
- September 19, 2014 at 1:48 PM
I agree, I am tired on the whole PDA discussion especially if the other end of the discussion cannot even accept that the sky is blue.
NEFC IMO is the best club in the region I think they have been several of the teams mentioned., we will see if they hold up this yearas I believe they lost a few players. Quickstrike ended the year strong last year. PA Strikers are probably in the mix as well.
- September 19, 2014 at 1:48 PM
NEFC roster fails to list their dominant Striker. She is playing up a year in the region 1 odp inter regional event. Their top central midfielder is still listed. Not sure if there are others in question. I think for sure they will not be as strong without the striker, but they will still be excellent.
If the NEFC striker went to PA Strikers they would be the dominant team in region 1. As this is unlikely, they will probably still struggle to score goals in bigger more competitive games. Their defense and midfield are solid, but the strikers need a striker. Or at least a more reliable way to score goals. ABGC will likely remain strong in USYSA if they send their "A" roster to the events. If the A roster is primarily playing ECNL then not sure where they stack up. What's up with Manhattan Santos? As yet World Class do not appear to have any Santos players listed on their ECNL roster. If they are intact, they will remain a potential force. In my opinion Quickstrike has a long way to go. Are there any up and coming teams to watch? Anyone know of any combinations occurring that will bring a new "player" into the top? How is YMS looking? Did they get any additions to boost them into the top 3? What's up with SJEB and Toms River (PDA shore?) Without a really convenient (closest in Cleveland area) ECNL, century extreme will likely keep most of their players. Look out for them if they've added one or two starters.
Just a conversation starter
- September 19, 2014 at 3:15 PM
I know not all the teams will be there, but the WAGS tournament in a few weeks will have a few teams to watch. I don't think ABGC/FCV will be tested too much in the prelims, unless they don't bring their top kids. The Kickers lost the better half of their team to ECNL, so unless they are dual rostered, that team will struggle. I wasn't impressed with Mercer the last time I saw them, but that was last year.
Group 2 will have an interesting matchup that should show if Herndon is ready to join the conversation. They have been steadily improving over the past year and their game with Santos should be good.
Group 3 looks like FC Penn & PTFC will be fighting to advance. VYS has struggled lately, and I don't know much about East Islip.
If Quickstrike is as good as they sound, they should roll through group 4. Don't know much about the GA team, but ASA and Loudoun really can't compete at that level.
- September 19, 2014 at 3:40 PM
I can't see SJEB or the old TR team really being competitive against the other teams mentioned. TR had been on a serious slide last year and from understand, they really haven't improved their roster. The PDA South team has talent but they have not been consistent, one week they look great and the next they look just Average. YMS will always be competitive. If the only NFC change is the dominent striker, they will probably still be competitive in most games because a solid defense and midfield will keep all the games competitive.
Fingers crossed that you do not get too many serious HS injuries. That is an unknown that can also alter the landscape.
- September 19, 2014 at 3:57 PM
Will come down to which of the better teams were able to hold onto their players.
- September 19, 2014 at 4:46 PM
Pride added a strong midfielder which was sorely needed, forwards stayed the same, nothing outstanding with them. The only saving grace of the Pride is their strong defense. TR may recover, SJEB lost strong players, only time will tell who comes out on top.
- September 19, 2014 at 5:26 PM
I'm not sure if I have the right team, but I thought I heard that the Pride had an ACL injury to one of their key defenders. If that is the case then it will be a big loss this year.
- September 19, 2014 at 5:48 PM
Interestingly the Penn legacy Black team has blown up.
2 of their best to penn fusion- keeper and dmid/cb. 2 forwards to Pa Classics. Not much left.
Of course there is always the "state champion" Hershey Elite team yet to mentioned...
Speaking of the ECNL teams. Has much changed in that world? I know that World Classes dynasty has come to an end.
- September 19, 2014 at 5:48 PM
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- September 19, 2014 at 5:50 PM
What are your roster sizes like?
Who carries > 18 and how does the coach handle who sits? Has everyone stayed healthy and made the decision tough, or do injuries and HS activities make it moot? How do the kids and parents handle it?
We carry 20 and when everyone is healthy the coach decides on game day who sits. So far everyone seems to be taking it well.
- September 19, 2014 at 5:55 PM
I thought we were leaving ECNL to themselves and just discussing the rif raf.
- September 19, 2014 at 5:57 PM
We are an EDP team and our coach refuses to go over 18. At this age he doesn't think it's fair for the girls and I think he wants to avoid parent calling him all the time about playing time. I think that it is harder for NPL and ECNL teams where because not only do you have tell kids that they are not suiting up, but you also then have tough in game substituions because once you make the substitution you are stuck. It forces coaches to be tougher with playing time because if you put in someone from the bench and that player isn't playing well, it's difficult to take her out.
- September 19, 2014 at 6:06 PM
Pride defender is out for the season.
- September 19, 2014 at 8:34 PM
With the defense down and lackluster forwards and mids, I guess Pride will not try for another run at state cup this spring. Coach wouldn't dare cause the club last year's embarrassment.
- September 19, 2014 at 10:55 PM
CASL will be another good one with some good east coast teams NJ Stallions, Manhattan, NEFC, Tophat, YMS, FC Copa and some good west coast teams LA Galaxy, Legends. Posible great matchups between teams from each coast.
- September 20, 2014 at 9:15 AM
As an SJEB parent, not really sure what "really strong players" were lost you speak of.
- September 20, 2014 at 6:00 PM
Ouch! That hurts.
- September 20, 2014 at 7:59 PM
tophat legends Carlsbad strikers sbgc etc will be playing at CASL in the national league flight. There will be some great match ups within the national league structure indeed.
- September 20, 2014 at 10:29 PM
I am not the original poster of the SJEB players comment but perhaps players left since your coach continually gives in the the parents who throw the biggest " playing time" tantrums.
- September 21, 2014 at 8:27 PM
or the original poster is the parent of another midfielder.
- September 21, 2014 at 8:38 PM
SJEB hasn't been competitive for two years, I am curious to see how TR recovers.
- September 21, 2014 at 9:52 PM
I would not go as far to say that SJEB has "not" been competitive? They are a decent team with some talented players, but not a top team. I think everyone who is familiar with this team knows that the more the parents cry, the more playing time you get. All you SJEB parents know it as well and who those parents are. As for TR, I believe they will be fine. Let's see how it plays out.
- September 21, 2014 at 10:16 PM
My daughter played for SJEB and Now Pride and was told at tryouts that she was "on the bubble" at tryouts. Now as a high school freshman, she is scoring goals in every game, so really, what do these coaches know?
- September 22, 2014 at 12:16 AM
High School means nothing in scholarships, it's is all club success.
- September 22, 2014 at 12:33 AM
HS means nothing. The fact you just said that shows how much more your coach knows than you.
- September 22, 2014 at 8:03 AM
The only thing to get excited about with HS is that your daughter has fun, has a good social experience and doesn't get hurt. The average players from top teams in the ECNL, NPL, and EDP that have received quality training over the last few years will perform extremely well in HS. The majority of kids playing HS Soccer are from leagues like the CJYSA and SJGS leagues where they are parent coached or occasionally bring in a "professional" trainer. The technical level of the the kids for example from the SJEB is far superior than most kids in HS. A team like SJEB would beat most HS team easily if they had the chance to play each other. Take any kid from SJEB, Pride, Stallions, etc and play them in the SJGL or CJYSA and they will be scoring goals every game there as well.
- September 22, 2014 at 9:44 AM
"My daughter played for SJEB and Now Pride and was told at tryouts that she was "on the bubble" at tryouts. Now as a high school freshman, she is scoring goals in every game, so really, what do these coaches know?"
Is this post for real? Do you really believe the quality of the HS soccer game is an indicator of how a kid should be playing in high level club soccer?
Also, just a piece of advice and I think you find it throughout this blog, the pride Coach like mentioned about the Baron's coach listens to people who complain, but the key to the Pride coach is getting inside his inner parent circle.
- September 22, 2014 at 1:25 PM
- September 22, 2014 at 4:32 PM
- September 22, 2014 at 4:32 PM
As you have said above...on any given day...and that includes NEFC- especially since they appear to have lost their infamous striker.
- September 22, 2014 at 8:29 PM
Looks like the strikers have made some changes. Raided continentalfc? Boy they are really thin. One kid still on both rosters. Would not be surprised to see CFC dropped by the ECNL. Makes room for another NJ ECNL club. However western PA or at least central PA seems like an obvious geographic need. Will be interesting to watch now that the ECNL has broken the glass on dropping teams this year. Will there be some more significant changes next year? Gotta believe there is some nervousness at continental.
- September 22, 2014 at 8:35 PM
How can you say any HS soccer is fun and positive. This is my daughters second year and most of her friends first year. They are having such a negative experience they asked my daughter why she came out again this year. The coach has only 4 seniors and a handful of juniors and was very disappointed with his turnout. I personally can't wait until they tell the girls that play club ball not to play for HS.
- September 22, 2014 at 10:05 PM
Serious question, does a successful HS soccer career mean anything in the way of college $$ or is Club the only way to go?
- September 22, 2014 at 11:56 PM
I am sitting cracking up, HS is nothing but a social "thang". I hear these parents bragging about how many goals their kid scores and how her name is in the "paper" after each goal and it means NOTHING! So sad how uninformed these parents are.
- September 23, 2014 at 12:18 AM
With the exception of having a HS coach who is friendly with a few college coaches and will pick up the phone and call them, there is very little benefit. No recruiter wants to watch a HS football game because the talent is so mixed and the coaches coach to the skill level of their team so you do not get a possession focused or technical game. In today's world, if you want to be in the best position you want to be at a High level club that will get you exposure to colleges at major recruiting events. You'd be better off sending your kids to college ID camps (although now they are generally becoming money makers with a lot of kids that shouldn't be there). My best advice if college money is your focus would be to get yourself on a good club with a coach that is willing to give some effort as well.
Very few kids get substantial money. There is a pool of money that gets divided across players and any amount will likely be small. If you are just asking now whether HS or club is the place to be for college, your daughter may be have a lot of catching up to do. Most kids that are playing varsity as Freshman as many of the people on this blog have, know that the reason they are playing is because of the years of work at the club level learning the game right.
I f you are asking because your daughter is doing very well in high school, that is a positive. My suggestion would be to try to get your daughter out to a few practices to see if she can hang with the girls on those clubs, the other thing is to check some of the soccer forums where teams may be looking for a guest player and see if your daughter can participate at a high level tournament. In short, the players that coaches will be looking at in HS are already getting on the coaches radars through their clubs and coaches can't run around watching girls in HS when they can go to a single showcase tournament and see a concentrated group of talented kids.
- September 23, 2014 at 12:26 AM
12:18 Agree, kids should enjoy HS, have fun and embrace the social side of it, and most of all don't get hurt.
Nobody wants to go into the winter showcases and spring season nursing an ACL recovery from HS.
- September 23, 2014 at 12:29 AM
Well my daughter is scoring in every HS game she plays in, she will definitely get some calls from college coaches.
- September 23, 2014 at 12:41 AM
@12:41 My daughter went to a sleep away camp over the summer where they brought in a mid level D1 coach for 2 morning session to educate the girls on what, how & why of the college recruiting process. This coach told the girls that she did not care if a girl scored 100 goals in her H.S. career, it means nothing. She told them it's all about their club career and what level her club plays at. The coach did tell them that they consider H.S. but not for how they played soccer, more for academics, participation with peers, leadership issues & things of this nature.
I'm guessing you posted just to stir up some conversations but if not, what I wrote above is how it is in the real world. Maybe some local D3 schools might reach out to a local H.S. player but they can only offer money for academics.
- September 23, 2014 at 7:59 AM
1241 was being sarcastic, I get it, it is really irritating listening to parents gloat over their kids HS soccer success when these same girls get 5 minutes playing time on their club teams!
- September 23, 2014 at 2:32 PM
HS soccer makes ill. Team winning 2-1 with 30 seconds left. Coach has them rush to take corner kick? Why?
Need to get poor Mia a goal, has not scored this year. Other team nearly scores after weak corner. No Mia will need to wait another game to score. Why bother any more. Poor daughter is confused and annoyed.
- September 23, 2014 at 7:25 PM
Every parent I talk to on side lines hates HS soccer but we al let our kids play what is wrong with us
- September 23, 2014 at 7:42 PM
Quit your bitching, embrace HS for what it is, a social experience, or pull your daughter out. Does everything have to be about great soccer. Yes, the soccer is poor, but my kid has entered a large new school, she's made a lot of new soccer friends, and she enjoys the bus ride before and after games. The world is not scholarships, college coaches watching, ECNL, NPL. It's been a blast for my kid so far and I for one am glad she's doing it.
- September 23, 2014 at 9:17 PM
917, how glad will you be when she is sidelined for the winter showcases and / or spring season by an injury ?
- September 23, 2014 at 9:50 PM
9:50 That's the risk that most parents and kids are taking. I won't be glad if she gets injured, but she wants to play HS soccer, so I can come on here and whine and moan about how bad the soccer is, how bad the coaches are and on and on. Everyone knows this and most parents with kids that play club soccer let their kids play HS anyway and the clubs facilitate it by not having a U-15 fall season. So you can complain and whine or you can embrace the positives that are there and there are some positives.
- September 23, 2014 at 10:07 PM
Soccer snobs. My kids to good for HS soccer. Blah Blah Blah. Might be a good time for your kid to work on her leadership skills. Make the girls around her better soccer players. If you're worried about injuries, that happens in club soccer also. I've seen bad refs at respectable tournaments & high level leagues where they let the games get out of control.
It's still soccer, just at a different level. imo, if your kid wants to play HS soccer, encourage it and enjoy it for what it is. If she does not want to pay HS ball, help her off & focus on individual skills until her club starts up.
- September 24, 2014 at 6:03 AM
6:03 you are exactly right. It's the kids choice and the parent should have little or nothing to say (except here…) My daughter loves the social aspect of it but is somewhat frustrated by the soccer. If it became a problem she will address it with coach but whatever she does it's her choice, I'm just a fan when it comes to her soccer. Something that many parents will need to start to understand is that coaches will only deal with the kids and have no interaction with parents. If your daughter has an issue, she and she alone will be tasked to address it with her coach(s) no one else.
- September 24, 2014 at 8:42 AM
Soccer Snobs is the perfect term. Most of the soccer being played on weekends is not the high level clubs that p;ay ECNL, NPL, or EDP. They are local clubs giving kids that are not as ambitious or do not have the resources as others an outlet to play a sport. These are the kids that by and large make up the the HS game. We get it, HS soccer is not your beautiful possession game where every kid is technically perfect, we get that some high schools have no cut policies, and some schools every senior who wants a spot on varsity is given a spot on varsity. So keep sticking your nose in the air because most of the kids that play HS soccer are not as talented or skilled as your daughter.
- September 24, 2014 at 9:04 AM
My problem with HS is that it is not positive for the development of the game and the development of US soccer. So I cannot assign it any real value from that perspective.
I completely understand why most kids want to play HS soccer though. And for the most part I cannot blame them. Ultimately I am happy that my daughter is happy but she knows that the high school will be getting knocked out of her by her club coach once it is over.
I pray HS coaches begin to let those talented players on their roster play and have the other learn to play 'more' of a beautiful game. Maybe even get some current coaching/training credentials. Most still do not know THE GAME. Sorry, but kick & run does not work. At some point it will be abolished, why not now?
- September 24, 2014 at 9:07 PM
DC Shore, not everything is for the development of the game. HS soccer is the same game that the majority of the kids playing soccer already play. Of the 400+ soccer clubs in NJ, how many play soccer that is good for the dvelopment of the game. This blog is driven by people on the top 20 or so clubs where people pay a lot of money for coaching and development. HS soccer is a great place for the rest of the kids to keep their enjoyment of the game. A HS coach can only work with the kids that tryout. I don't think HS soccer has any relevance to the development of the game. If you want the development of the game, then the quality of the game has to be improved throughout the entire club system, local clubs included, by the time kids get to HS it's too late. HS soccer isn't going anywhere and whether the soccer snobs like it or not the kids enjoy it.
- September 25, 2014 at 9:11 AM
Our team is populated by kids who play all kinds of club ball. And if you dont think that these games mean anything then you are not paying attention. The tears , the commitment ,the intensity are all there. And the fact that they are now playing against team mates and friends from all over just heightens the fun and desire to do well. It matters to these kids! And in the end isnt that what really matters. So get off your high horses and just love every game they play. Because in a few years this is all history.
- September 25, 2014 at 9:41 AM
"not everything is for the development of the game." --->obviously...but that's not the way it should be...development, fun and enjoyment are not mutually exclusive...unless organized that way by the coach or team management. you would think 'High School', emphasis on school, of all places would be a place to facilitate learning in all area...unfortunately when it comes to sports there is too much emphasis on results (winning) and money (paid coaches)
"HS soccer is the same game that the majority of the kids playing soccer already play."
---> painfully true...but it does not have to be that way on either side
"Of the 400+ soccer clubs in NJ, how many play soccer that is good for the dvelopment of the game."
---> not nearly enough
"This blog is driven by people on the top 20 or so clubs where people pay a lot of money for coaching and development."
---> I'd say closer to 5-6 based on my impression. And one thing I have pointed out is that MONEY does not always buy you DEVELOPMENT, let alone is it required. There are enough existing options and when parents start demanding more (than just promises) from organizations and take a step back not the 'self absorption' level we may begin to see it grow.
" HS soccer is a great place for the rest of the kids to keep their enjoyment of the game."
---> careful with such blanket statements. I know plenty of players/parents who were or currently are very disenfranchised with what goes on in High School soccer well beyond the game itself
"A HS coach can only work with the kids that tryout. I don't think HS soccer has any relevance to the development of the game."
--->Agree with the first sentence. COMPLETELY disagree wight the second. At the very least the coach should allow THE GAME to be played because more and more the players know a heck of a lot more than the coaches. It is rare for a High School coach to be up on his credentials, qualifications and training methods. At least with what I know.
" HS soccer isn't going anywhere and whether the soccer snobs like it or not the kids enjoy it."
--> again, careful with blanket statements. I'm not sure what you mean by "going anywhere"...but the "going" I am referring to is a change from direct, mindless soccer where physicality is 90% of the game, to higher IQ soccer where players are making decisions (good & bad) and the play resembles more of what you might see in La Liga or the Bundesliga as opposed to what many of us use to play 20-30 years ago. I already see an increased effort at the younger ages which is really wonderful to watch. Unfortunately a lot of self-absorbed dummies are also still coaching and managing teams.
- September 25, 2014 at 9:47 AM
The going anywhere I refer to was in response to your statement of it being abolished, I think it is here to stay.
I think there are some pretty good HS coaches (some bad ones too), but a varsity coach who has the kids for the months is not going to teach the kids the game, they have to build a team around what they have and unfortunately a lot of what they have is kick and run players.
I agree that HS Soccer is not perfect and not everyone is happy for the game. There ar so many athletic and eudcational after school choices, no one is forced to play. There are bad decsions made no doubt, some schools have no cut policies for seniors creating bloated varsity teams, some teams won't play freshman on varsity some will, parents complain if their senior is getting less time to a freshman or sophomore. That's the system and I think the kids and parents that go in with eyes wide open can have fun with it. For my part, I have enjoyed seeing my kid play without the constant pressure that you see at a high level club, I think it has created a nice atmosphere to just play and yes, try things that she would get crucified by her club coach.
- September 25, 2014 at 9:59 AM
Nothing further :)
- September 25, 2014 at 10:04 AM
HS soccer is in the mist of changes. Northern Highlands is the number #1 team in NJ and also in the country in many polls. They are currently on a 70 game unbeaten streak. Why? Because the coach has harnessed the talent of all the top quality club and academy players and plays the game as we all like to see. Another point, they have no freshman soccer team. Top freshman go to varsity, others are cut, like club soccer. HS and club can exist together but it comes down to coaching.
- September 25, 2014 at 11:57 AM
I don't know that Northern Highlands is indicative of changes in HS. Clubs can develop because they can draw and recruit from wide areas. I am in South Jersey and you always have Cherokee and Lenape as top programs. A lot of this is dependent on the size of the population you draw from. Mt. Laurel and Marlton have large populations with a variety of club programs that a kid can go to to develop. By-and-large, kids do not pick the high school that they go to, so the program is as good as the kids who tryout. I would guess that Northern Highlands is similar with large populations and accesible youth clubs. The coach may be doing some very special things with his team, but schools can only field teams with the people that enter. Without knowing Northern Regional, I would guess that you have a suburban population a higher than average income and tax base where the family resources allow for more kids to play club soccer in a decent development environment.
- September 25, 2014 at 12:39 PM
HS soccer is also very dependent on a school districts policies on coaches. Do they hire outside coaches that are really coaches, or do they hire teachers as coaches? Our area has maybe one decent coach in the entire region. At our school in particular, the coaches are almost all teachers and seem to change almost every year. That makes it very difficult to develop any sort of a decent team regardless of who's on it.
- September 25, 2014 at 1:27 PM
I would think any high school coach would be thrilled to have these high level academy players on their teams.
- September 26, 2014 at 10:55 PM
Someone is eating too many homemade brownies...PDA one big happy family. Yup they are.... U8-U18 in Zarephath.
The rest are good teams, you can get the same at any other club, with less lies, more integrity, and a coach and or DOC, that actually cares about all of the girls, not just the "Chosen".
You are happy there, as, I assume, all of the top 1-8 players. Your daughter obviously is very talented, because, if she wasn't, and you were on a blog continuously engaging people and posting 8 paragraph ramblings, I believe your kid would be replaceable, so kudos on having a talented daughter. For f&@k's sake, though, stop with the Kumbaya, It ain't there in all your outposts.
Your kid is a starter and full gamer, so why do they ask her to play on a lesser team, comradery, leadership, showing the other girls what is needed to break the ECNL line up? It can't be because her talent has slipped,and you just want to get her minutes, if so, you would not be on here singing "We Are Family"
- September 26, 2014 at 11:57 PM
I don't know who is worst, the blue eyed liar DOC of PDA south or the lemmings, oops, I mean parents that blindly follow him ?!?
- September 27, 2014 at 12:28 AM
Sept, 26 11:57....Aren't most brownies homemade……Yes I believe PDA is one big happy family U8 thru U18 the location doesn't matter we are one. You are right you can get the same at a lot of the local club around I would agree totally. Well I would say the rest of what you said in that paragraph is very debatable and your opinion which I would agree to disagree.
Yes my kids are happy where they are at PDA. Are they in the top 8………..probably not but I am not concern with that. They are happy and they have another season to continue to develop and get better. Its about growth and certainly in sports there will be growth. Some more than others but it will be growth. Yes my daughter is talented but so is the rest of New Jersey. I am not blinded by anything dude this is sports and sure I will say that my kids are talented but I will also say that I haven't seen one kid from either her team or any other team that is not just as talented or more. Talent is based on OPINION in my OPINION….how many times have you watched professional sports and asked yourself why a coach plays a player over another when maybe in your opinion he has a better choice of player in someone you deemed more talented. I engaged folks with my long paragraphs that may or may not make sense because I say what I feel and I say it as my opinion in the way I choose to say it. Does it all make sense………NOPE but I am okay with that because probably 80% of the stuff I read on here doesn't make sense in my opinion. Is my kid replaceable……sure she is and I know that and so does she. That's the beauty of sports and I love it because in my opinion sports teaches us LIFE LESSONS. Things are not always fair and believe it or not today could be her last day if she doesn't go and work hard. Sorry I will never stop cheering or defending PDA. I just can't. I believe in what they do and I believe that everyone should be a part of that place. Okay I am bias but I can admit that. In truth is it for everyone……..NOPE but neither are IVY league school but it doesn't mean the IVY league school or horrible places. My kid is not a starter and she is not a full gamer. I think it goes game by game and whatever the coach feels he needs for that game then it will be that. My kid has never played for a lesser team or anything like that. She has only played on age and now U15. In my opinion I feel you are bitter about something. What that is I have no clue but if you ask me the state of NJ has so many talented kids at this age of U15 how could you call a team LESSER. You seen what a so called LESSER team as in Freehold did this past year. They took all the punches you guys could diss out and guess what they took their "LESSER" so called soccer players and did what no one thought they could do ON PAPER and won the whole dag on thing. My daughter has been asked to play with other teams in her age group at PDA as in PRIDE, Atletica and I hope she get a call from PDA Shore to play with them also. Some of you frown on that and turn your nose up to that but I say you have no idea what sports is about and never mind the camaraderie, but the exposure to different styles of play and different coaches philosophies and strategies and guess what I am still here yelling WE ARE FAMILY and WE ARE ONE.
- September 30, 2014 at 12:47 PM
For some reason This image comes to mind...
- September 30, 2014 at 1:06 PM
This Blog needs to limit its posts like Twitter. Enough already
- September 30, 2014 at 1:17 PM
One big happy family.....dysfunctional but happy.
- September 30, 2014 at 1:46 PM
Whenever I read one of his posts, I can't help remember my HS English teacher discussing Shakespeare and the quote, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
It may be lost on the PDA guy, but the significance of this quote as taught to me in HS is that when denies something so insistently, the person loses credibility and people are lead to believe what they are denying is actually true.
- September 30, 2014 at 2:01 PM
Can you imagine the PDA guy on twitter in 140 characters - I'll give it a go:
#SisterSledge #Noanonymousposts #lifelessons #pdaballers #zaraphath=CampNouWest #gunnerque #PDAohana #fact=opinion #dogsbarking #ALLCAPS
- September 30, 2014 at 2:18 PM
You are so right I could never see myself on Twitter…….thats for kids I guess. I would never use Twitter………..really what for……LOL I bet you follow all these kids on twitter to see what they are doing. I will say this that My English teacher was perfect and you are right I would never know what you are talking about but same goes for you if I referenced the likes of the SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS….but hummm you right you would understand but its shows. We ever you ready to come out and play let me know. Eric Harris.
- September 30, 2014 at 4:02 PM
It's probably time for you to take a blog break. Your posts are become utterly incomprehensible and repetitive.
- September 30, 2014 at 4:42 PM
It's probably time for you to take a blog break. Your posts are become utterly incomprehensible and repetitive.
- September 30, 2014 at 4:42 PM
Can we please get back to a relevant conversation? Both the PDA/Eric bashers & Eric himself sound equally immature.
Anyone have some type of intimate knowledge of the college recruiting process, been through it with an older daughter or someone else close to you? I know my daughter is starting showcases for the first time & I for one have no idea of the what, why, how & what if's. Should she contact 50 colleges that she considers at her level or just 5? Can her coaches write letters on her behalf? Although money is not really an issue, we'll be spending time & money traveling around the country doing this. How do we get our best bang for the buck?
Personally I'm not that concerned if she even plays in college but, for now at least, she has her heart set on it. This is what she wants to do.
- October 1, 2014 at 8:22 AM
My kid playes for PDA, the college coaches are already knocking on my door.
- October 1, 2014 at 8:43 AM
Everything you want to know about the college recruitment process.
6 years worth of material The most comprehensive material and forum on the matter.
This forum should start a blog to help others like yourself
- October 1, 2014 at 8:47 AM
Thanks 8:47 & that would be a good idea. We should not have to go to another forum for this info. I just quickly checked a couple of the posts & it seems like an educated forum with detailed info.
- October 1, 2014 at 10:24 AM
Oct 1, 8:22am...aside from you silly comment about me I would assume your child is either a freshman or soph. If I were you have her pick the top 10 schools that she is interested in for both academics and soccer related and have her hand write the head coach and let the coach know that she is interested in their program. I had my daughter do this back in January this year ending of her 8th grade year. I also made a profile and cover letter for her and sent that out to over 65 colleges by the time she graduated 8th grade this June. Making a profile sheet is simple and I have passed on the one I did for my daughter to several of people as a templete because unless you have been in the situation you might not know what to do or how to do it. I would say that most if not all colleges would recieve your letters or hers with open arms. Just think about it its impossible for even the top colleges to see everybody but if they can have kids fall right into their lap basically that makes their jobs that much easier. I could further help you if you really need. Eric Harris
- October 1, 2014 at 11:02 AM
IMO, at our kids' age, the most important thing to do is get on a coaches recruiting list. Unless you have a superstar and while many of us may think we have one of those, very few of us do, colleges won't start seriously looking at our kids for another 1+ years. You can contact coaches but they can't contact you until after your Junior year. There are no official visits untill after your Junior year and the Coach cannot talk to you off-campus, ie at a showcase. So the most important thing is to know the schools you are interested in and make sure the coach knows you are interested. Hopefully, you can encourage a coach to see you at a showcase and follow-up with the coach after the showcase to keep your interest and get an idea if you would potentially be a good fit for the school. Check out this recruiting calendar as it will help in planning your activities.
- October 1, 2014 at 11:07 AM
6:52 Good point but they could not find any more additional NPL teams who are interested in playing. Since PDA only has 3 NPL teams they were stuck. I'm sure PDA lobbied for putting in more teams but other clubs balked. The Northeast NPL Classic played in Florida, hosted by PDA. Don't worry your money is safe with us.
- October 3, 2014 at 5:33 AM
5:33 Are you saying with almost 3 months left until the showcase that they have stopped accepting teams or they have contacted all NPL teams nationwide & no other teams will come?
- October 3, 2014 at 7:38 AM
Tournament is closed per the website. Accepted teams are listed. Just 18 from U15.
13 from Northeast NPL or PDA.
Not questioning the team abilities but long way to go for league games.
- October 3, 2014 at 8:34 AM
At Oct2 5:14pm....Assuming we are all back to work and ready for another full day of blogging. In my opinion I am not sure what you are saying but I never said that the best teams were playing in the NPL showcase if that is what you were getting at. My post which I forget to add my name but then somehow posted it 3 times in a row. The list that I gave from the Disney Showcase I feel its a win win situation. Nevermind the whole Disney aspect. I doubt any of those teams are going for MICKEY....they are going to play soccer and really thats its. The showcase just so happens to be at Disney which in my opinion is very expensive but totally has nothing to do with soccer. That is great group of teams in that age bracket and its going to be interested in how they group them. I am cheering for all the Northeast teams to do well. I have some favorites but I am hoping that they all go down there and enjoy the experience and get the exposure of the SOCCER environment. I don't think I will be at Disney during that time and as of now we have not been invited to join any of the teams going to NPL showcase but if we are invited I would love the chase to get my child the exposure in that environment and to represent her club. I really don't mind your wise jobs about the limo and all that its all good I can take jokes because I am a jokster at heart. I would agree that the NPL showcase is pretty light when you look at the Disney Showcase. I assume a lot of those teams committed to Disney before the NPL showcase was announced. Eitherway like I said that Disney Showcase is going to be a tough draw for anyone. I think sometimes JEFF CUP is a hike to play local teams in your area but thats just my opinion. Eric Harris
- October 3, 2014 at 8:43 AM
Nice to to see you finally concede some points! You must have been tired when you posted. Jeff Cup will at least have the numbers to allow for some variation for bracket set up. Do you feel NPL Showcase was set up to benefit PDA?
Thoughts on NEWSS tournament as it appears we may Gunners will attend. With this be the ECNL team or some variation?
- October 3, 2014 at 9:10 AM
I didn't see anything about it being closed although it did state that applications are due Sept 30th. I'm guessing they will extend that deadline if they want more teams. There are 18 teams entered. Only 9 are Northeast NPL although a couple of non NENPL teams are still from the Northeast, but I get the point. My point is that they will most likely pick up a few more teams and the teams from the NE won't be playing each other. There are many valid arguments against the showcase, I don't think NE teams playing each other is one of them.
- October 3, 2014 at 9:16 AM
They also have not published any coaches that are attending the NPL tournament. Does any one know from any one attending the NPL showcase if they have a lot of coaches coming. I struggle to think that considering the number of teams at Disney that many coaches will want to be at the NPL Showcase. It is also interesting to see that NEFC which has been the best NPL team in our region chose to go to Disney rather the NPL showcase.
- October 3, 2014 at 9:24 AM
Your respect for the National program is admirable but the money issue is a reality in every country. Do you think players from the slums of Brazil only have the dreams of playing for country? No they look for a way out of poverty. How many World Cup players do not play professional soccer? Very few I would believe. Soccer is tied to money everywhere so blaming it on money and costs is incorrect.
- October 3, 2014 at 9:34 AM
I think PDA has a bit of a "if you build it they will come mentality." I'll probably be told that it is just an opinion, but list year, PDA scheduled a Columbus day tournament, but due to the lack of interest, they cancelled it. I think that is probably part of what has happened with the NPL tournament. 4 teams from PDA an a bunch of others from the NE where PDA probably was on the phone quite a bit encouraging clubs to attend.
- October 3, 2014 at 9:38 AM
9:34 Sure players from every country may see soccer as a way out of poverty, but I don't believe that there are many countries in the world that have a paid youth program and certainly not at the level you see in the US. In most other countries, if you are a top, you are pulled into a National Program ECNL level player your costs and expenses are paid.
- October 3, 2014 at 9:44 AM
Eric, just catching up on the posts from yesterday, you said you don't pay $2500 for your fee, what do you pay?
- October 3, 2014 at 9:50 AM
No I don't feel that the NPL Showcase was set up for PDA. I believe that it was set up to create more opportunities for teams or clubs. Sure right now it may seem that more teams are at Disney but the NPL is not doing this for the short term or just to make a buck. They are trying to create an environment that CLUBS within there league can come and compete on a stage where exposure for all the clubs can be seen and more centralized in a group setting as a Showcase. No different what Disney is doing but people are mad or upset because PDA is in it. In my opinion along with the MATCHFITS, FC COPA's NJSA's FREEHOLD'S etc of the world these clubs are trying to better WOMEN'S Soccer believe it or not. They are slowly but surely trying to put these young girls in the lime light right along side of the mens programs and academys. Thats just my opinion and I don't fault PDA for it but I more or less I ENCOURAGE IT because although I was a male athelete I do now have female children who I would like experience the same if not more than I have in whatever they do. I could careless if Matchfit was doing it I would say HECK YEAH way to go and lets do more. I think most of you get all caught up in the PDA stuff because most of you have been at PDA and didn't experience the same that I have for my kid and I understand that but by no means do we need to condem them for their efforts for wanting to share their brand which most of us in the soccer community maybe envy or respect what they have and accomplish as a club. Eric Harris
- October 3, 2014 at 10:22 AM
I would assume I pay the same that you do which is not $2500 so we are both under that if I am correct unless you are at that club that charges $2850 and thats a fact because I asked lol lol just to make sure.......I'm SMH at that. Eric Harris
- October 3, 2014 at 10:29 AM
Let's face it, if your paying 2200, 2500 or 2850 does it really make a difference if your happy with the training? We all know the travel and other extras are the real sticking point. It is crazy money but most of us are not in it for scholarships. We pay the money because we want our kids to be happy and advance in the game. I pay just as much for theatre, dance and tutors for my other kids. We all have the right to say no. I respect anyone who says they can't afford but to say no on principle is foolish. Kids are the ultimate thing as a parent. I will never feel bad for offering them the best I can.
- October 3, 2014 at 11:03 AM
When many kids do not make the ECNL team after having been a "A" team player, they decide to drop out of the club rather than play on an expensive time consuming B team. Some have even chosen to play on a USYSA team's "B" team rather than NPL. Why? Because why pay the money and spend the time to travel regionally at least when you have enough insight to realize that your child is not at the D1 or even probably D2 level? She enjoys soccer and may play club or D3 in college, but it not worth the > $2000 price tag plus travel to play on the b team. The ECNL clubs try and tell you that the club is looking for the top 36 kids in the region to have 2 solid teams, but the reality is that most people with the exception of those who have not yet conceded that their kid will never make the "A" ECNL team, go elsewhere. Either their kid plays on a non ECNL relatively competitive "A" team (mostly those on the bubble of an ECNL roster) or they drop even lower.
- October 3, 2014 at 11:26 AM
I will have to say AMEN.....you said it all so true and me just mentioning the $2850 was to just make a stab at a buddy of mine that reads this blog and probably pokes me from time to time although he won't admit it but I just wanted to give him a smile while he reads. Anyway what you said is so true. It doesn't matter what the cost is. If the cost was $10,000 I would pay it and not even bat an eye if I thought it was the best thing for my kid. Its kinda like shoes these days. I cry foul when I have to pay for shoes for myself over $50 or $60....now sneakers hey thats different if it ain't NIKE it ain't right lol lol sorry I am a NIKE fan. But serious I never put a cost on my children's happiness or place of peace. Never will I do it. Eric Harris
- October 3, 2014 at 11:31 AM
Actually, I am with PDA and I was handed a letter at this year's tryouts that fees once again went up $100 from $2,400 to $2,500. I've paid my 2014/15 fees and it is indeed $2500. You post just raised the question to me as to whether players are paying different amounts? It's not a complaint, just a question as to whether PDA as a different payment for different players.
- October 3, 2014 at 11:38 AM
Why not make choices based on principal? Isn't this what we want our kids to do?.
Everything has costs but the money in youth sports has gotten our of hand. It is tuning a childhood pleasure into an exclusionary luxury all over this county.
We can have out limits and reject insane travel to participate in youth sports. The rest of the globe does not indulge such insanity and they seem to produce top notch players.
To me it is in some ways an extension of watching 10 year olds run around in $75 cleats. Don't Nike and the rest of them have us and our kids right there they want us? I for one love it when a kid in her brother's old school hand-me-down cleats dominates the pitch.
At the end of the day, a lot comes down to the player and not the cleat or the club or the league. A good teacher is critical but no one can learn the game for you.
- October 3, 2014 at 11:49 AM
That doesn't make sense to me because if you were handed a letter then how come you are asking what I pay......lol lol Eric Harris
- October 3, 2014 at 11:50 AM
Do you actually even read people's posts or do you comment on what you want to answer. The PDA fee is $2500, yesterday you posted that you do not pay $2500. If I go into a store and buy a Coke for $1.80 and you go into the same store and buy a Coke for $1.50 it wouldn't make me happy. Unless PDA is charging you less than their official fee you should be paying $2,500. It has nothing to do with the money, it is a simple question of whether you have paid the PDA fee of $2500. I wasn't aware that PDA discounted fees for people except for those in need, which clearly you are not because you would pay $10,000.
- October 3, 2014 at 11:59 AM