text:
Farmer's Markets, Rip off or Worth it?
- d
- Davina May 22, 2006 11:57 AM
So, yesterday I went down to my local Farmer's market in Encino, California for some fresh flowers, veggies etc. I attend these markets knowing full well that I will pay a premium for organic produce and that I'm supporting local farmers etc. However yesterday I laid out $80 and this is what I took home...tell me if you feel this is worth it or a rip off, I'm curious about public opinion of the whole Farmer's Market Experience. Here's my take home:
1) 1/2 lb of mixed greens lettuce (bibb, butter, romaine)
2) 1/2 lb of baby spinach
3) Small bunch of fresh dill
4) Small bunch of fresh cilantro
5) Small bunch of fresh chives
5) Three fuji apples
6) Three small bunches of purple irises ( 15 flowers total)
7) Pint of Raw Cream
8) One Baguette
9) One box of strawberries
10) 4 white onions
11) 1 box of grape tomatoes
12) 1 head of celery
13) 1 bunch of green onions
re: Karl S
$3/five stems...this was one of the better deals. The more expensive item was the raw cream...$10/pint.
re: davina
Raw cream is generally $12+/pint in stores, so that was a bargain.
"Worth it" is subjective. What is freshness worth? What is being able to taste before you buy worth? What's preserving heritage varieties that agribusiness disdains worth? What is supporting local agriculture worth? For that matter, what is the worth of supporting local agriculture at prices that they can afford to keep the land "green" and not to sell it to developers to pave over? That's priceless.
It really depends on where you are, too. I have some friends who operate a family farm, and during corn season they take truckloads of corn to farmers' markets all over the area - they hit a different one every day of the week, traveling as far as 100 miles. Their prices will vary substantially based on location alone....as much as 100% variance.
I'm guessing that you're going to pay more in Encino than, say, Bakersfield. (Not that I'm suggesting you drive to Bakersfield, mind you!)
Always a ripoff.
You're paying premium for the "privilege" of supporting supposedly local produce/growers.
re: ipse dixit
Supposedly? When I go to my local farmers' market I see stalls that display the location of the farms where the produce comes from. These are not "supposed" local farmers. Am I paying a premium for that? Yes and no. I buy seasonal produce so the slight premium I pay over Costco produc imported from Chile not only supports local farmers, but also supports the life style I choose to live. The vine ripen tomatos I buy from farmers' market is 10 times better than the pale red stuff from the supermartkets. So the quality of the produce is also better.
re: davina
You'd be surprised how many farms are actually in LA County. It's a huge county you know.
re: davina
Ventura County is still relatively local as opposed to, say, Chile.
re: davina
You are making assumptions and also distinctions without difference. For one, Kenter Canyon grows in the San Fernando Valley. Most of the farmers at the Los Angeles area farmers markets drive in the morning of the markets with just picked produce, whether they are grown in LA, Ventura or Bakersfield County. If that's not locally grown, I don't know what is, unless you grow it yourself. I'd rather eat produce that's been grown 100 miles away and picked that morning, than something picked a week ago from Mexico.
re: davina
Then you need to hie your keister up the 14, exit at Pearblossom, and head east. There are at least twenty orchards between the 14 and the San Bernardino County line. Tenerelli Orchards, for example, where I buy my peaches.
Not to mention that Los Angeles County -- the Valley in particular -- is the #1 producer of honey in the state.
It depends on what your definition of "local" is -- a few hours away is still local, especially when you know that the produce was picked the night before.
re: Das Ubergeek
Tennerelli also sells peaches in season at the HFM.
re: JudiAU
And Glendale.
re: ipse dixit
Wow! Who crowned you expert?
I lived in Monterey CA for a dozen years and found both farmers' markets there incredible values featuring lots of organic stuff unavailable even in the best markets in town: cardoons, long beans, gai lan, baby lettuces sorted by type (frisee, red oak leaf, etc) rather than blended together, bears head mushrooms, huge bunches of organic purple basil, etc.
Of course, there were stands set up by growers (or maybe even retailers) that didn't feature local organic produce, but it was easy to tell the difference.
I have noticed that other farmers' markets don't always have that variety or quality, but I certainly would never judge all farmers' markets based upon one or two bad experiences.
re: ipse dixit
Not sure where you shop, but there is no "supposed" about it at the certified farmer's markets in Los Angeles. For instance, last summer I visited the Weyser family farm, and saw firsthand their operation, so I have no doubt they are (a) local, (b) family owned, (c) committed to growing unusual/heirloom varieties unavailable elsewhere, (d) that they grow their products in a sustainable way, and (e) that they get them to market when the products are at their peak freshness.
I for one have had excellent experiences buying produce from this and other local vendors at my farmer's market (Hollywood Market on Sundays) and have no qualms about paying a little more for something that I know is fresh, locally and sustainably grown. YMMV.
That sounds like a lot more than I'd pay in L.A....but raw cream is going to be expensive everywhere.
I added the prices of what I usually pay for your list at my grocery stores, Ralphs, Gelsons, and TJ's. My total was $39.32 for everything on your list.
Have you tried the Calabasas Farmers Market on Saturday? I haven't been in a while, but I seem to remember their prices being a bit more resonable.
You've raised an interesting question.
Most Americans have a skewed concept of what food "should" cost. Due to federally subsidized industrial agriculture, modern Americans spend a smaller proportion of out income on food than our contemporaries in any first world country. Of course, there are many external consequences of our "low cost" food production system: war in Iraq, pollution, near slave conditions for farm workers, a public health crisis, high taxes, the list goes on...
The prices at a Farmers' Market tend to reflect more "normal" prices when compared to other countries.
Personally, I think it's "worth it." The quality is almost always superior, the food is more nutrituious, and you are supporting a more ethical, humane and environmentally positive method of food production.
When you look at the whole picture, in terms of your health, the world's health, and the quality of your meal, supermarket produce is the real rip off.
Of course, for some families an $80 trip to the Farmers' Market is simply unaffordable. If that is the case, you should look into a Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) program in you area. CSAs offer a more economical approach to supporting farms. As the farmer has more direct control over distribution and consumption patterns, his/her bottom line decreases and the cost of produce goes down. A "box" containing enough produce for a week ranges in price from $20 to $30. I suggest that you return to your local market, seek out the stands with the best stuff and inquire about CSAs.
re: Morton the Mousse
That said, after crunching numbers those prices do seem high. At my local FM that much food would have cost between $50 and $60.
re: Morton the Mousse
I couldn't have said it better myself. For all those reasons, plus the fact that a farmers' market is much more fun than a supermarket, I shop at farmers' markets as much as I can. Plus, if you live in a big city or other area with a high cost of living, farmers' markets tend to be much cheaper than national supermarkets. The only places to find cheaper produce are ethnic markets.
Having said that, I do try very hard to keep myself under control when at the farmers' market. I only buy what's cheapest, because that's what's in season. To me, going to a farmers' market and buying what's out of season defeats the purpose--which to me is to support sustainable, local, small/family farms.
Last week, I hauled away more than I could carry for $15 (not my entire grocery bill, of course, but it was at least half of what the two of us needed for the week, which means at $90 I would have had way too much or could really have splurged):
15 lb. sack of ruby red grapefruit (easily over a dozen big fruits)
an artichoke the size of a football
1 lb. purple baby artichokes
1 bunch asparagus
1 qt. raw whole milk
1 lb. strawberries
1 bunch each of parsley, oregano, and sweet basil
1 sack of lettuce for my rabbit (complimentary with herb purchase, I just filled up a bag with the clean trimmings the farmers don't want)
The herbs and baby artichokes went into a big pot of pasta, the other vegetables were sides for various meals, we've been eating plenty of fruit all week, and our rabbit is very very happy.
Given your list, it does seem expensive - I estimate I'd be paying ~ $40-$50 at the South Pas farmers market for the same items. If you can't get the same range and quality at local stores, then it's still worth it, as long as you can afford it!
That's pretty expensaive for what amounts to a large salad, some herbs and flowers. I can't figure what you spent all the money on. Even the cream shouldn't be that much. I buy fresh local produce every week at my farmers market in Trenton, NJ and pay nowhere near those prices. I get into trouble when I go to the gourmet specialty store and start buying all of those wonderful imported and US micro cheeses.
You bought items that you wanted and you paid the going price for them at that market. Only you can choose to feel "ripped off". Everything has a different value to different people. To some $10 for raw cream is a great value since it is not easily found elsewhere. To someone who doesn't value raw cream theymight you were "ripped off". Same with the price you paid for the irises. I personally love fresh flower and my irises have not bloomed yet so to me they spund like a good value. My husband on the other had thinks I am crazy to buy flowers that I will have in abundance later in the season. Any price paid would be a "rip off" to him.
My point is you will pay what the market supports. If that farmer is successful at that market he/she will continue to charge what if he feels he can get. If you think they are too expensive tell them and don't buy it. If you are the only one chances are the prices won't change and that the majority think the prices are "fair". But if farmer feels the pinch the prices will be adjusted accordingly. No use having buyers remorse after the fact.
Your shopping basked does not offer good value but let's take a look at mine. Do you think it offers good value? I do.
We shop weekly at Sunday FM in Hollywood. The prices are identical or better to other high quality organic produce available in the city. The produce is fresher, tastes much better, and in my opinion, is much healthier than that available elsewhere.
I am not sure how you managed to spend $80 on the items listed but some items like the raw cream and flowers are red herrings. I also, frankly, don't think you are shopping well because you didn't take advantage of what is great in the market right now, with the exception of that raw cream, which is fabulous. That raw cream btw-- is cheaper at the FM than at supermarkets. It is a simply an expensive product.
Shopping at the FM is like shopping anywhere-- rarity and seasonality effect the price and shopping well means paying attention to pricing, availability, condition, organic vs. unorganic, variety, etc. etc. Your shopping basket is not representative of the seasonality or value available at the market right now.
For instance, pre-washed mixed baby greens are a luxury item whether you buy them at the store or TJs. The difference is that the ones at FM taste good and won't rot in two days. Head lettuce is cheaper and lasts longer still. You can enjoy the best organic produce-- the same stuff the best restaurants in city use-- by shopping carefully within a budget. It doesn't have to be expensive.
California has had a lot of rain this year that has pushed back spring crops so we are still getting early spring items and strawberries, for instance, haven't hit their stride yet. Buying seasonally gives you the best produce with the best flavor at the best price. Right now green garlic, squash blossoms, spring onions, fava beans, pixie tangerines, English peas are abundant and cheap. The artichokes at the market have hearts twice as large as supermarkets for the same price. Strawberries are still expensive but the quality will jump up and the price will go down in another couple of weeks. Apricots are still delayed. Blood oranges are still around and avocados will peak soon. Farmer's grow what they can sell and make a profit on so certain items are never a good choice (celery, green onions) because the growers can't begin to compete with imports from Mexico so they generally don't bother. Finally, tomatoes are still out of season so the ones you bought were probably hothouse grown which increased the cost. Good Food on KCRW has a weekly "market report" which helps track seasonality.
We spent almost exactly $90 at the market yesterday and this is what we bought and how I think it broke down cost wise. You'll notice that I, too, have a lot of luxury ingredients in my shopping basket. We normally spend closer to $40-50 at the market. But I am on vacation and have a chance to entertain this week so I splurged on lots of seasonal goodies. If the price on something is high like my chicken or those shelled peas it isn't because I am a fool-- it is because it is absolutely worth it.
$1 bag of organic spinach- super tasty version about 6 oz. ($1 vs. $3 at grocery store)
$2 1/2 pd. Crimini mushrooms
$16 1 pd. wild morel mushrooms in perfect condition--the only place to buy them if you don't want them to taste desiccated dirt
$2 1 bunch lamb's lettuce-- grown by one farmer and the only place to buy
$2 1 bunch purslane--grown by one farmer and the only place to buy
$1 3 heads of mature garlic, with huge cloves and easy to peel
$1 3 large grey shallots, tastier than pink
$2 3 sweet Maui-style sweet onions
$2 2 yellow onions
$4 2 pounds of fava beans
$6 One bag of shelled English peas, equivalent to about 30 minutes of labor and 3 pds of peas, a major luxury
$6 1 pint amazing organic blueberries that are the closest to wild you can get in California, a major luxury because there are few growers and no competition, but these are really special
$16 1 organic, free range chicken which I think is the absolute tastiest available in Southern California
$1 1 bunch of parsley
$1 1 bunch of chervil
$4 12 squash blossoms
$4 Pint of blood orange juice
$1 blood oranges for garnish
$4 meyer lemons
$2 avocado
$2 cavolo nero
$4 2 bunch nantes carrots- exquisite
$2 actual new potatoes- delicious-- grown by one farmer and the only place to buy
$10 2 pds. Free range bison stew meat-- low in fat, deep in flavor, cheaper than whole foods
re: JudiAU
We have a two person household but entertain frequently. We have a stocked pantry and some leftovers from the weekend but if something has to be purchased I've noted that as well. We don't have a set menu for the week but after reviewing what we purchased we will probably serve it in the following way.
Sunday Dinner for 6
Blood Orange Cocktails (blood orange juice, compari, vodka)
Tempura squash blossoms filled with ricotta, mint, parsley, and anchovy served with a little marinara enriched with white wine and olive oil
Handmade bavette pasta with English peas, fava beans, morel mushrooms, cream, and bacon
Banana cake with chocolate ganache (buy bananas- $3)
Monday Lunch (leftover pasta)
Monday Dinner for 2
Spinach and Lamb's lettuce salad with peas, favas, and pecorino
Lamb-which with rare lamb, caramelized onions, piquillo peppers, and Dijon mustard (leftover leg of lamb from weekend from half organic lamb we buy, $6/pd, buy baguette $2)
Tuesday Lunch (soup out of a can at my desk)
Tuesday Dinner for 4
Blood Orange Cocktails (blood orange juice, compari, vodka)
Wild salad greens with champagne vinegar dressing, chervil, and avocado
"Zuni" chicken with roasted carrots, new potatoes, and sautéed cavlo nero
Meyer Lemon Tart with Blueberries
Wednesday Lunch (leftovers)
Wednesday Dinner for 2
Pizza with pork sausage (from half organic pig we buy at $2/pd) spinach, crimini, morel mushrooms
Thursday Lunch (bacon wrapped hotdog from street vendor $3)
Thursday Dinner- eat out- probably vegetarian Ethiopian $25 for 2
Friday Lunch (probably treat myself to omakase sushi lunch at Kiriko $35 for 1)
Friday Dinner for 6
Goat Cheese soufflés with cornmeal and walnut crust, microgreen salad dressed with walnut oil (TJs- $4)
Bison carbonnade a la Julia Child served with home made spaeztle, roasted carrots, parsley
Friends bringing dessert
Weekend? Who knows.
Frankly-- I think that is good value.
re: JudiAU
Thanks, JudiAU. You are killing me but post like these are why I stick around. I think I need to take a week off to do some serious cooking/eating.
re: JudiAU
Hey, I like your shopping list!!! Are those chickens good then??? I saw them at the Hollywood market a couple weeks ago and wondered. And I know this is blasphemy!!!, but right now, I think the Hollywood Sunday market has better stuff than Santa Monica Wed, better berries, and more variety. The Santa Monica growers don't seem to have hit the upswing into summer that I expect by now.
re: ciaolette
I actually stopped eating chicken if I had a choice a few years ago. It was so boring, flabby, mealy, and tasteless that I would eat pretty much anything else. Plus, production is vile.
My husband, who loves roast chicken, was always trying to sneak one into the rotation. He got a little traction on the kosher organic but it was only when we discovered the Kendor Farms chicken that it stuck. They are really good. Firm-fleshed, tender meat, and great flavor.
We salt them on Sunday ala Zuni and generally eat it on Tuesday. Several of our friends have figured out the schedule and we get a lot of people who want to get together with us on chicken night.
re: JudiAU
I have to say, though, I met a lady at the Studio City Sunday market who kept insisting that it wasn't time for cherries yet because the host of Good Food said they were delayed... but there were cherries all over the market, and some of them were actually very good.
(Remember the time a few years ago the farmers all decided they had to be first to the market with cherries, and they all tasted like wood? That was a dark year indeed... the lesson has been learned by farmers and consumers alike.)
re: Das Ubergeek
But they are going to get REALLY good...
re: JudiAU
I can't wait... I've got my clafoutis pan ready!
re: JudiAU
"$16 1 pd. wild morel mushrooms "
Would you mind confirming that price?
$16 per POUND of fresh wild morels seems way too low.
re: RicRios
I think they are actually $32 per lb at the Hollywood market.
The big Farmer's Market at Union Square in NY changed everything. A lot of very good restaurants opened nearby, so the chefs could prowl the market at 7 AM and select the best. A guy from Pa graduated from Princeton and decided to buy a farm and devote his life to seeking and growing the best heirloom tomatoes. Ditto for a woman in Connecticut, except she raises cows for cheese. I've eaten a lot of great restaurant meals thanks to that farmer's market.
re: emilief
Oh, I would kill for raw cream. Availability in eastern states depends on state rules. Raw milk has much more flavor and is much more digestible than pasteurized, homogenized milk (I have family who are severely lactose intolerant but handle unhomogenized milk very well; something about the homogenization process makes it more difficult to digest milk for them). For people with weakened immune systems, it's not to be recommended, but human beings ate raw milk for millennia. Has to be properly handled to reduce risks, and risks there are, but there are risks with everything. I myself would prefer to have a choice in the matter.
re: Karl S
There is a vendor at Union Sq. market who sells raw milk products. Not sure he carries cream, but he does carry milk, buttermilk and 3 kinds of cheeses. I'm hooked on his cheeses. Unfortunately, I'm always either too late or not going straight home to buy fresh raw milk - I'd kill for some raw milk - I grew up drinking freshly milked still warm out of cow milk, mmmmmm...
re: emilief
On the raw milk issue, when refrigeration was not common, oh, like 80 years ago, pasteurization (basically, cooking the milk) was a necessity for health and safety reasons. Today, this is no longer necessary, because freshly drawn milk can be refrigerated immediately. Raw milk is far tastier and healthier for you than pasteurized milk (which kills important enzymes, proteins and vitamins in the milk, which is why most milk you see in the supermarket has all kinds of vitamins, etc. added to it).
On a very basic level, raw milk taste better.
However, raw milk is still treated with suspicion in some states. Fortunately in CA we can get it at most Whole Foods markets and the like.
The link below has information about where you can find raw milk in your state, and more detailed information on the debate between raw v. pasteurization.
Link: http://www.realmilk.com/
re: emilief
Here at the LA area farmers market we have a supplier called Organic Pastures. Their products are amazing. I don't buy the cream often, but when I do it makes the MOST AMAZING creme fraiche ....
and with strawberry season apon us, I can see some good uses for whipped cream
They also sell true kefir, which is bubbly and fermented like beer. I think they sell lots to the Iranian, and Armenian market goers, it is similar also to a traditional middle eastern drink.... I like to blend it up with berries and honey, but my husband thinks it is awful...
re: emilief
I love the stuff and on special occasions I will splurge for it. It is expensive because the farmer's are very careful with their cows (environment/diet/milking) and at least in CA, the state absolutely plagues them with paperwork and tests. Organic Pastures posts weekly bacteria counts on their websites and you can imagine what that costs.
Looking at your list, and then comparing it to prices at two of my favorite local FM's, I'd say you got ripped pocketbook-wise but then you did see the prices prior to picking each item and paying the vendor...
I wouldn't say that shopping for produce (and flowers) at the local FM is a rip, though. If you're thinking an $80 is too cost-prohibitive to do every week, then hit more booths and price-compare.
At one FM, Van Groningen & Sons - Escalon (URL: http://www.vgandson.com ) provide THE BEST melons I've ever enjoyed! I'd happily pay 3X's the cost of Safeway or Albertson's. (Reality, though, shows I pay the same.
BTW: Every vendor at both certified farmers' markets are local growers or bakers. It's well-worth supporting them year-round. I also enjoy the "steals and deals" towards closing times.
re: The Ranger
Thank for wording that so well, everything you said was what I was thinking. My only addition is along the lines of the deals and steals subject, several friends of mine have actually established a rapport with their favorite vendors and have enjoyed even more savings.
re: Tracy L.
> [..] "establishing rapport for greater savings..."
Heck yeah!
I hit pretty much the same booths every week. If they're looking like they don't want to pack it up and put it away, I'll ask and they'll usually wheel-and-deal. Cash always gets me the best deal, although two will allow me to write checks "after hours."
Sometimes getting to the Vallco Farmers' Market can backfire badly. I ended up missing several vendors and not getting much produce one week because it was the first rain-free days. I had to adjust my menu for that night. (G)
I have noticed the downtown Portland market getting more expensive as it becomes more of a tourist spot, but I still find it cheaper than someplace like Whole Foods. That, and the quality is amazing. Of course I seem to end up blowing my budget on baked goods and cheese.
I read a lot of responses from CA. Don't you guys have U-Pick places down there? We have quite a few in OR and go throughout the summer to pick blueberries, peaches, flowers... everything except blackberries which grow like weeds and you can get all you can eat for free on the side of the road. U-Pick is a terrific bargain and an easy activity for kids. Just wondering.
re: Morgan
LA County is huge and urbanized. You'd have to go a long way to get to a U-pick type farm. Besides you'd have to hit different farms for different produce, rather than have many varieties at the same place.
re: Morgan
In the LA area we do have some upick stone fruits, cherries and apricots, and apples, but all over an hours drive. Yes it is fun, and nice for an outing, but impractical on a weekly basis.
I think I would have paid about $40 for what you bought, without the cream (never bought raw cream, no idea about the price). Of course, prices vary depending on the season (strawberries are more costly when they are just starting to ripen locally, and then there is a glut, and you can buy as many as you want very cheaply).
I like the farmers' market because I am now a city person who used to be a small town person with a garden. The freshness of the market approaches what I could get growing my own, and I appreciate it. But I also generally feel that I am paying about the same or less than at the supermarket, for much better quality.
I'm guessing that some farmers' markets are priced higher than others, based on the area (distance to the farm and what they think the customers will pay). When I lived in Madison, WI, and shopped at a small neighborhood market, I used to feel I should offer some of the small farmers more than they were asking, everything was so cheap. They probably drove less than half an hour to the market. In Chicago, where I live now, half an hour gets you nowhere.
I do find it a little humorous that the farm/garden fresh fruits and vegetables that I took for granted in my childhood are now so trendy. The "sourcing" for the tomatoes of my childhood (and for lots of noncity people now) is "outside the kitchen door". Even in the city, I have basil (two kinds), oregano, dill, cilantro and parsley in my garden right now.
Most of my experience of Farmers' Markets have been at Detroit's Eastern Market and various farmers' markets in the cities and towns in southern and eastern Ontario and Quebec. The quality has been really outstanding and many of the farmers have been very helpful.
In Detroit, which attracts farmers from Southeastern Michigan and Southwestern Ontario, has many farmers on Saturdays that raise fresh herbs and who would grow herbs for my commercial kitchen back in the time when fresh herbs were not available in local supermarkets.
As for the price, generally the prices charges were LESS expensive that the local supermarket chains on both sides of the border. Cash only of course. At the end of the day (after 3pm as vendors wanted to head home, prices would drop substantially.
I will be the first to admit that when I head out west, I get sticker shock at some of the prices being charged to consumers. But then, I am not willing to pay over $2.50/lb for apples and the like when I can get them off the tree for well under half the price.
Reading over your list, I would expect to pay about $30 max excluding the cream. I get all the cream that I need from our farm.
Yesterday we went to the Hollywood Farmer's Market, specifically for strawberries. We bought:
3 baskets of Gaviota strawberries from Harry's Berries - $11
1 Fuerte avocado and 1 Pinkerton avocado - $3.00
3 Japanese cucumbers - $1.75
maybe 6 oz. unwashed mesclun & arugula (Kenter) - under $2.00, forget exact amount
1 lb. sugar snap peas - $4.00
We also ate a lovely pupusa breakfast - 1 cheese/chicken pupusa for my husband, 1 cheese/squash/mushroom pupusa for me, 1 bottle of water - $5.00.
I know I can get Hass avocados for less but I wanted to try other varieties.
The strawberries were a slight splurge but they are fabulous. The Seascapes from Harry's Berries didn't taste nearly as good, maybe they're not quite in yet. I didn't go with a specific list other than strawberries. I can be indecisive about what I want to cook and maybe I should have gotten some artichokes as they looked good but I wasn't inspired. I was pretty happy with what we bought and think it was a good value for money spent.
re: Debbie W.
I got a huge purple artichoke at the Pasadena Farmer's Market a couple of weeks ago. At $3.50, it was probably the single most expensive artichoke I've ever bought. On the other hand, it was the best artichoke I've ever tasted.
re: Amuse Bouches
$3.50 is worth it for a giant artichoke. There were some green ones yesterday in Hollywood that, I swear, were almost as big as basketballs with stems about 8" long! The Barry Bonds of the artichoke world.
re: Amuse Bouches
$3.50 is a small price to pay for a grand luxury that tastes great! Indulge yourself in wonderful artichokes, what a great vice.
For a sobering aside: much of the rest of America wouldn't blink at $3.50 for a cup of mall/chain coffee in a paper cup. For the same money, you bought a real treat. Enjoy!
Well, you don't say which of that stuff is organic, so it's hard to say because that stuff is often 2-3 times conventional produce prices. The produce we get at this time of year in NYC is different, but that seems awfully high to me. (I can't speak to the raw cream - raw dairy can only be sold AT the dairy here in NYS.)
On the whole, our main farmers' market prices are suprisingly (and pleasantly) comparable to supermarkets and even some less expensive alternatives.
Am I missing something? I thought part of the attraction of the FM was eliminating the middle man and buying direct from the farmer. I haven't gone to an FM yet this year, but in the past I've done better at the FM than at my grocery store, whether the produce was organic or not.
You buy some of the same things I do, except I go to the Studio City market on Sundays... so here we go:
1) 1/2 lb of mixed greens lettuce - $6.00
2) 1/2 lb of baby spinach - $6.00 if bought at the lettuce vendors, $1 if bought at the Asian vegetable vendors
3) Small bunch of fresh dill - $0.75
4) Small bunch of fresh cilantro - $1.00
5) Small bunch of fresh chives - $1.00
5) Three fuji apples - about a pound? $2.00
6) Three small bunches of purple irises ( 15 flowers total)
7) Pint of Raw Cream
8) One Baguette - $2.50
9) One box of strawberries - $3.50
10) 4 white onions - $1.50
11) 1 box of grape tomatoes - $4.00 (not in season yet!)
12) 1 head of celery - $1.00
13) 1 bunch of green onions - $1.00
Not including the flowers (which I never buy) or the cream (which is unavailable at Studio City), that's $30.25. If the cream was $10 as you said and the flowers were $9 for 15 stems, you're now at $49.25. Did you buy any prepared food? Perhaps you left something out?
My week's shopping at Studio City:
Quart blackberries: $3
Overflowing pint strawberries: $3.50
Quart cherries: $5 (not quite season but they were good!)
2 clusters (2 lbs.) hothouse tomatoes: $5
Large head red oak lettuce: $2
Large head butter lettuce: $1.50
3 huge heads garlic: $1.00
3 enormous bunches mature spinach: $2.50
1 large bunch (10 bulbs) cipollini: $2.00
3 onions: $1.00
1 large bunch basil: $1.00
1 lb. raisins: $3.00
Bacon, egg and cheese on whole wheat bread: $4.00
It was so much I had to pause and put down the (cloth) bags so they wouldn't cut my hands... so I can't imagine spending $90 unless I were buying apples for one of my enormous skillet pies... or truffles, or a pound and a half of morels...
re: Das Ubergeek
Excuse me, I meant $80... brain must engage with fingers!
re: Das Ubergeek
You said it much more diplomatically than I could have. Thank you.
re: Das Ubergeek
ooh! skillet pie! can you post the recipe on home cooking? :-)
I'm a huge farmer's market geek and proponent, but your total sounds pricey for what you got. I used to shop at the Burbank market when I lived in LA and never spent that kind of $ for my goods. Things are even cheaper or better value up here in Santa Cruz since we have so much farmland nearby.
Of course, I'm selective about what I buy and when. I always make one full round w/o buying anything to compare quality, selection, and pricing. I then hone in on my purchases and have become enough of a regular to know where to go for what.
I also usually don't buy the "first" of anything...it's usually more pricey and not at its best. Haven't bought any peaches or cherries yet, but did splurge on my first basket of organic strawberries this season. Glad I did, but can't wait for them to get even better.
Only you can decide if your $80 was well spent. If everything tasted full of flavor and life and you beautified your house w/ fresh cut flowers, then heck, sounds good enough to me...
I shop at the Northridge Fashion Center Farmer's Market and I can't imagine paying that much for what you got.
I usually get 2-3 bunches of herbs (cilantro, parsley, dill), 1/2 lb of spring mix, a bunch of asparagus, 2-3 bunches of green onions, a couple avocados, 3-4 apples, 3-4 asian pears, a loaf of jalepeno cheese bread, a basket of strawberries, and a couple other things like kettle corn, plums, a glass of lemonade or things like that (varies week to week). I don't think I've ever spent more than $25, and even that is a high estimate.
I shop at the Farmers Markets here in Sacramento and I get tons of wonderful produce (and flowers) for 30.00 bucks. I love to go the outdoor market. I meet lots of really great people, enjoy the sun, and save money. I must say....the best Farmers Market I've ever been to is the one in Portland. I wish we had one like that here. Maybe one day.
In Santa Monica, that would cost me about $60 (I assumed $25 for the flowers, but I don't really know what irises cost).
Come to my booth next year during asparagus season...one pound will only cost you $20. You got taken. That assortment should not have cost more than $25.
When I go produce shopping at a farmer's market I make it the SF Civic Center market - there I am supporting local smallish farmers but I am not usually buying organic. If I wanted to pay the scary premium for organic I would buy at the SF Ferry Building farmer's market. The difference is that at the non-organic one the prices are often about a quarter of what I'd pay at a supermarket, up to maybe 75 percent of supermarket prices - with at least as good, if not significantly better quality. The Ferry Building organic produce will be several times more expensive than the supermarket. When I shop at the non-organic farmer's market I spend about $30 for all I can carry home on foot and public transportation - about 35 pounds: backpack and 2 shopping bags full. It comes out to about a week and a half's produce for 2 people. If I shopped at the Ferry Building organic stands I bet that much food would cost me a couple of hundred dollars. As my 80 something mom says, "If regular food hasn't killed me yet, it never will."


text:
GamersGate is the leading digital distribution platform for PC and Mac games creating easily accessible gaming experiences for gamers worldwide anytime, anywhere.
Games > Searching for "stronghold" - Sorted by relevance. - Page 253 matches
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Action, First-Person Shooter

subset: commoncrawl


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HARRISBURG, Pa.—The winning numbers in Saturday evening's drawing of the Pennsylvania Lottery's "Big 4 Evening" game were:
(nine, four, nine, zero)
Oregon festival's giant nutcracker: 41 feet
ROSEBURG, Ore. (AP) — Sponsors of the annual holiday festival near Roseburg have commissioned a whopper of a centerpiece — a wooden nutcracker intended to stand 41 feet tall, weigh more than 16,000 pounds and work its jaw with enough force to crush coconuts. Full Story
(Matthew Mead — The Associated Press)
Thanksgiving prep: Barbecue turkey recipe
It occurred to us recently that many of the same flavors we crave on grilled meats during the summer also would be superb on roasted turkey at Thanksgiving. Full Story
Kelsey Grammer's daughter is Miss Golden Globe
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Kelsey Grammer's daughter Greer is the new Miss Golden Globe. Hollywood Foreign Press Association President Theo Kingma made the announcement Thursday night at a party in her honor. Full Story


text:
Parties of 8 or more are subject to a 20% Gratuity • There will be a $.50 charge per separate check • Please ask your server for children's menu selections
Pan Seared Shrimp, Scallops, Littleneck Clams, Mussels, and Calamari, Tangy Tomato Broth, Angel Hair
Baked Grano Armando Semolina Pasta, San Marzano Tomato, Fresh Basil, Three Cheese Blend Chicken…Add 3 Shrimp…Add 8 Sausage…Add 3
Egg Battered and Fried, White Wine and Lemon Butter Sauce, over Spinach Fettuccine
Slow Braised Pork Shank, Gremolata Risotto, Pan Jus
Five Pan Seared Day Boat Scallops, Spinach, White Bean, San Marzano Tomato Gratin, Citrus Butter, Greenhouse Salad
Honolulu Fish Co. #1 Sashimi Grade Tuna Steak, Purple Jasmine Rice, Ponzu Dipping Sauce, Pea Sprout Salad, Shiitake Sesame Vinaigrette
Grilled Brown Sugar Cured Atlantic Salmon Filet, Red Onion Caper Sauce, Rice Pilaf, Vegetable Medley
Breaded and Fried, Tomato Sauce, Fontina and Parmesan Cheese, Roasted Garlic Fettuccine
Panko Crusted and Fried Chicken Medallions, Willows Greens, Fontinella Cheese, Roasted Garlic Sauce
Panko Crusted and Fried Veal Medallions, Willows Greens, Fontinella Cheese, Roasted Garlic Sauce
Moroccan Spiced New Zealand Lamb Rack, Caramelized Onion Whipped Potatoes, Cranberry and Apple Mostarda, Baby Carrots
Creamy Arborio Rice, Seasonal Vegetables, Aged Parmesan, Goat Cheese Fritter, Micro Green Salad
Gulf Shrimp, Scallops, Bell Peppers, Onions, Button Mushrooms, Hot Cherry Peppers, Tomato and Parmesan Cream Sauce Sausage…21 Chicken…19
House Preserved Juniper and Herb Pekin Paradise Farms Duck Legs, Orange Gastrique, Baby Spinach, Goat Cheese and Scallion Whipped Potatoes
Grilled Eight Ounce Beef Tenderloin, Blue Cheese and Sherry Cream, Whipped Potatoes, Baby Carrots
Lump Crab, Gulf Shrimp, Cold Water Lobster Tail Meat, Asian Slaw, Sweet and Spicy Thai Chili Sauce
Roasted Long Hot and Sweet Red Peppers, Parmesan, House-Made Boursin Cheese, Whole Roasted Garlic, Crostini
Escarole, Roma's Sicilian Sausage, Aged Parmesan, Hot Cherry Peppers, Italian Bread Crumb
Breaded and Fried Squid, Aged Parmesan, Hot Cherry Peppers, Sambal Aioli
Caramelized Sea Scallops, Black Truffle and Gouda Cheese, Sherry Cream, Panko, Parmesan
Everyday our cooks are letting some special simmer on the stove. Ask your server for details.
Beef Broth, Caramelized Onions, Sherry Wine, Port Wine, Tarragon, Baguette Crouton, Fontina and Swiss Cheese


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Sundance Film Festival Topics
Democracy Now! has broadcast live from the Sundance Film Festival each year since 2010. We have interviewed dozens of independent filmmakers, actors and activists about the films premiering at the festival. The Sundance Film Festival is the largest festival for independent cinema in the United States and is hosted each year in Park City, Utah.
Alex Gibney's new documentary, "We Steal Secrets," bills itself as "the Story of WikiLeaks," but our guest Jennifer Robinson, a legal adviser to WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, claims it misses key facts. "This is, of course, a film about WikiLeaks, about the largest leak in history," Robinson says. "It touches on incredibly important issues about journalism and whistleblowing. But unfortunately, I do...Jan 23, 2013 | Story
Broadcasting from the Sundance Film Festival in Park City, Utah, we take a look at the new documentary from Oscar-winning filmmaker Alex Gibney, "We Steal Secrets: The Story of WikiLeaks." The film examines the key players involved in the release of hundreds of thousands of secret U.S. diplomatic cables to the whistleblowing website WikiLeaks. The founder of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange, is featured prominently in the film, as well as...Jan 23, 2013 | Story
The new documentary, "Fire in the Blood," examines how millions have died from AIDS because big pharmaceutical companies and the United States have refused to allow developing nations to import life-saving generic drugs. The problem continues today as the World Trade Organization continues to block the importation of generic drugs in many countries because of a trade deal known as the TRIPS Agreement. We're joined by the...Jan 23, 2013 | Story
Premiering this week at the Sundance Film Festival in Utah, the new documentary "Dirty Wars: The World Is a Battlefield" follows investigative reporter Jeremy Scahill to Afghanistan, Somalia and Yemen as he chases down the hidden truths behind America's expanding covert wars. We're joined by Scahill and the film's director, Rick Rowley, an independent journalist with Big Noise Films. "We're looking right...Jan 22, 2013 | Story
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The Sundance Institute's Cara Mertes describes how the independent film festival supports documentarians, including one who drew the ire of Dole Food Co. for showing how plantation workers in Nicaragua successfully sued for its continued use of a pesticide that can cause sterility and possibly cancer. [includes rush transcript]Jan 27, 2012 | Web Exclusive
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high end for dining alone in SF ?
high end , any cuisine
could be at bar , or tasting counter , or just comfortable place for dining alone
Thank You
La Folie and Fleur de Lys both have a bar. Been more than a year since i've been at either, though.
how high end?
gary danko
are my favorite places to dine alone at the bar, and i've visited each of them multiple times alone.
la folie
are also high-end, and have bars, but for some reason sitting alone here for a meal feels a bit more awkward. quince in particular i'd actually rather sit alone in the main dining room.
atelier crenn i've dined alone in the main dining room, which was nice. i asked them to speed up the courses, which was a good choice.
i haven't been to the new saison location, but the old location had a very nice counter to sit at.
coi and benu don't have counters, and i probably wouldn't want to dine at these places alone.
re: Dustin_E
I did Saison after work one day. There is a more casual "early" menu at the bar which has fewer courses and was lots of fun alone!
re: Dustin_E
Second quince.
Yes, it depends how much you want to spend. Also, do you have any preferences on what you value in a dining experience? For example, Atelier Crenn is a lot more creative in its presentation, whereas somewhere like Quince feels a bit more formal.
Saison is probably the very best that San Francisco, if not perhaps all of California, has to offer. I say that without having tried all the top high-end places in the Bay Area and in LA, but by the end of the year, I will have, and I doubt anywhere will top Saison. In terms of food, I find Saison to be better than Quince, Atelier Crenn and even Manresa, and certainly leagues above Gary Danko, Fleur de Lys, Acquerello, and La Folie. Also, it's very comfortable to dine solo at Saison, especially in the lounge area. While the lounge offers a small sampling of dishes from the tasting menu, the cost can add up quickly given the portion size and personally I think the tasting menu is a better overall value, if you have the time and it fits the bill. You have the tasting menu from the lounge as well.
Commis in Oakland is a great option for high-end dining at a significantly lower price point. It's not too far from SF, and unless you want to stay in SF proper, it deserves your strong consideration.
Commonwealth is another good option as well. It's in the Mission district, and is probably the most casual/relaxed and least expensive of your high-end dining options in San Francisco. The food is good, though, and certainly worth a look if you want to stay in SF and spend about $75p/p.
AQ is alright, i've been half a dozen times but it's mainly for dates/outings with others, it's solid but I wouldn't rush there and I would not choose it for a vacation meal unless I really wanted to be in that part of SF. With the tasting menu at AQ's counter, it can get close to Commis, but I would not call AQ "high end;" it's solid mid-tier, good for SF, but not destination dining if you're coming to SF on vacation. I wouldn't call Perbacco "high end" either, but it's still pretty nice and the food is not bad. SF has many fun and solid places like SPQR, Rich Table, etc. although it sounds like you're looking for high-end specifically.
Here's my recommendations, for what it's worth. If you're $80p/p (before tax/tip) sounds about right, consider 1) Commis in Oakland, or 2) Commonwealth in SF. If price isn't much of a consideration, Saison is $248p/p before tax tip, but i think it's unbeatable. It's a 3+ hour meal for the tasting menu, but the food is incredible and, in my opinion, probably the best you will find in SF Bay Area. But, it just depends what you're looking for, as SF has a lot to offer!
re: kyee87
Thanks ; price no object .
I prefer Asian food in general and all Japanese cuisines specifically , so Kappa is appealing .
But I'm looking for something more unique to SF .
And I don't really enjoy tweezer food .
re: kid cha
The meal I had at Saison (before they moved, new place does not have a chef's counter) reminded me of kaiseki.
I think the restaurants that are the most unique to SF are mostly in the midrange, e.g. Bar Tartine, La Ciccia, Incanto, AQ, St. Vincent, Namu Gaji, Cotogna.
re: Robert Lauriston
Thanks ; I was already looking at Namu Gaji .
I'll check out the others .
re: kid cha
This is not unique to SF, however I really enjoyed http://www.rokaakor.com/locations/san...
re: Robert Lauriston
Benu? Not my style but might be his.
re: Ruth Lafler
I don't know. Does it have some local angle that the Michelin endurance tasting menu places in NYC don't have?
re: Robert Lauriston
It's heavily Asian inspired, which is what it sounds like he's looking for.
re: Ruth Lafler
Agree. It's a unique enough restaurant and it has Asian influences. However, it wouldn't really appeal to me personally as a solo diner since I prefer to eat at the bar when I'm by myself and Benu doesn't have one. But other than that, I've had great meals there. Ame could be another possibility.
And in defense of Michelin, I think the two-star places in SF tend to be pretty unique in their own ways. It's among the one-star restaurants that you find the more generic fine-dining places like Danko.
re: Ruth Lafler
The main complaint I've heard about Benu was that it wasn't Asian enough.
re: Robert Lauriston
I would have a hard time understanding a "not Asian enough" complaint since I don't think the place pretends to be serving any specific authentic ethnic cuisine. It's just a pretty unique restaurant with some Asian influences. I guess you could walk into the House of Prime Ribs and complain that it's not Asian enough, but it wouldn't make much sense.
re: Robert Lauriston
That's a weird complaint to have. My understanding its the chef is cooking in the style of the French Laundry with the flavors that appeal to him. Since he is of Asian background, some of the flavors he enjoys working with are not European. I don't think he has ever said he was creating an asian restaurant or even an asian-fusion restaurant.
re: goldangl95
Have you read the menu? Almost every dish is a riff on some Asian classic or contains very Asian ingredients such as kimchi.
re: Robert Lauriston
I've been to the restaurant - I found it an effortlessly good meal. It doesn't change the premise of my previous comment. To have a false-advertising charge (e.g. we thought we were going to a high-end asian restaurant - but it was really more like every other cal high-end restaurant) is a strange comment to make.)
If I open a restaurant making food with the ingredients that appeal to me, at any one time I may really like to use asian ingredients with western techniques (or western ingredients with asian techniques!)
But for my food to be judged on whether it is "asian enough" instead of whatever my food is "good enough" is strange.
And that may not have been the criticism that's just what I took from it.
re: goldangl95
it's hard to not think of it as asian or asian fusion when more than half the menu is very clearly asian, mostly chinese:
thousand year old egg
faux shark fin soup
xo sausage
beggar's purse / treasures
cold noodles
salt and pepper squid
geoduck clam
xiao long bao
sesame and umeboshi
not that any of this has any bearing at all on how good or bad of a place benu is.
re: Dustin_E
Why is it hard? I don't judge Cotogna or Quince on whether it's Italian enough. Because while the cuisine clearly has Italian influences and is Italian inspired - the goal of the restaurant is not to remind you of Italian food - and therefore falls short of its when it's not Italian enough.
It's just - I wouldn't want anyone to be judging Benu on an asian "authenticity" scale - there is no way to "win" that one.
re: goldangl95
If a chef uses the word "kimchi" on a menu and what you get is below-average kimchi or not kimchi at all, someone who eats real Korean food all the time may think it's not a good dish. (Meanwhile, someone like Michael Bauer who spends most of his life in the Michelin bubble may think it's breathtaking.)
That was one of my complaints about Morimoto, but the complaints I heard about Benu were similar.
re: Robert Lauriston
Subpar kimchi is a different complaint than "not Asian enough." I have had not-so-great kimchi in restaurants that definitely made the claim to be Korean, had menus in Korean, were run by Koreans, etc. In such a case, my complaint would be "the kimchi here is not that great", not "this place is not Asian enough."
re: nocharge
My friends were disappointed that none of the interesting-sounding Asian and fusion dishes on the menu were very good compared with the originals that they were riffs on.
re: Robert Lauriston
yeah, that was my take on benu -- that it would appeal more to people who don't normally eat "real" asian food. so effortless, but not in a good way.
but someone here mentioned very good things about their wine pairings. and a couple friends who know a lot more about chinese food that i do really like the place, so i'm curious to hear more dissenting opinions.
re: Robert Lauriston
I'm still confused I must confess. Are we grading on an authenticity scale? or tastes good scale?
An authenticity scale as nocharge and others have noted is inherently problematic - who gets to say what "real kimchi" tastes like? And why should a chef be hampered by tradition and authenticity when that's not what he is striving for in the first place?
I like food that tastes interesting and flavorful for my palate - I happen to eat a ton of Asian food - but even if I didn't. I would expect that one wouldn't have to have "bonafides" (I've been to Hong Kong! I've eaten in Korea!) in order to say whether a high-end tasting menu (with no claims on authenticity!!) is worth trying.
re: goldangl95
>> My friends were disappointed that none of the
>> interesting-sounding Asian and fusion dishes on the
>> menu were very good compared with the originals
>> that they were riffs on.
that was exactly how i felt about the place.
>> And why should a chef be hampered by tradition and
>> authenticity when that's not what he is striving for in the
>> first place?
it's fine if he strives for something different, but the end product should justify the effort he put on himself and required from the diner to appreciate something non traditional. things are usually traditionally a certain way for a reason.
re: goldangl95
"Are we grading on an authenticity scale?"
kid cha said, "I prefer Asian food in general."
Ruth Laffler said in that case maybe Benu, since it's heavily Asian inspired.
From all I've heard, if you go there because of the reputed / apparent Asian influence, you might be disappointed.
re: Robert Lauriston
Gee, Robert. After all these years you don't know how to spell my name?
Benu is clearly Asian-influenced in both the ingredients and inspiration of its dishes. The fact that some people think the results aren't a good "riff" on the ingredients or fall short of the dishes that inspired them doesn't negate the source of the influence. In other words, the concept of the food clearly has a strong Asian influence, regardless of your opinion of how well the concept is executed.
But I guess I see what you mean, i.e. that they would be disappointed not because it wasn't Asian enough, but simply because the Asian concepts weren't well executed. I think you can say that of any restaurant where what's on the plate doesn't live up to your expectations, which I think was goldangl95's point.
re: Dustin_E
I with goldangl95: if a restaurant doesn't promote itself as being Asian, then it's ridiculous to complain that it isn't Asian enough. Now, if you want to complain the that nominally Asian elements aren't handled well, that's a different complaint.
re: kyee87
One of the plusses about Manresa is their constantly changing menu, where I think Saison stuck with mostly the same menu for months (if not longer), right?
This is of no interest to the one-time eater, who prefers more consistency than Manresa's chance-taking - but that's what I love.
One further point about "specifically SF" places. The highest end places are more in that particular international caliber, albeit with local ingredients. The two goals are somewhat in opposition.
re: bbulkow
Saison's menu can change daily based on what's available.
re: Robert Lauriston
How much is saison changing now-adays?
A few years ago (saison 2.0), there was a thread about Saison and then I ate there, and ALL of the dishes discussed were ones I had that night. The other people in the thread had the same experience (as each other).
re: bbulkow
I think the speed with which Saison's menu changes varies depending on how often the best ingredients they can find change.
When I went to 2.0, the two dishes I was most excited about were the langoustine and the aged birds, and I got neither. A Flickr set from a meal a few days earlier had maybe 23 of 26 dishes the same, two that were similar, one that was different, plus one extra. A couple of interesting things I saw in the pantry and asked about were for future meals.
If you want something interesting and unique to SF, I would the Chef's Counter at State Bird Provisions.
Otherwise, you cannot go wrong with Saison.
re: ipsedixit
Of course you can go wrong with Saison. Their attitude can outstrip their abilities.
re: mdg
Yes, the attitude at Saison is always something that could rub some customers the wrong way no matter how good the food is. (And it would be hard to come up with a place in SF that has food that is more delicious.) But attitude is not uncommon at places that can get away with it. Just look at Momofuku Ko in NYC.
re: nocharge
Someone from NYC might not even notice what we would consider attitude in SF!
re: Ruth Lafler
What "attitude" are people speaking of?
I have never had a problem with Saison (pre or post reno)
re: ipsedixit
The my-way-or-the-highway attitude. On the scale between "the customer is king" and "the chef is king", this place is firmly on the side of the chef. Take the substitution policy. They seem to be much less eager to accommodate people with dietary restrictions than, say, Coi.
re: nocharge
I find their arrogance refreshing.
re: bbulkow
Insensitivity training is under appreciated.
re: bbulkow
Even when one of the main dishes on the menu is an utterly flavorless disaster, most likely due to inept sourcing, and nobody cares? I've got no problem with lack of substitutions etc., but nobody is perfect, not even the Saison chef who thinks he is.
re: nocharge
It's just a different business model.
I don't find it problematic, as long as you know it going in. And for people who are surprised by this, it's more of a "you" problem than a Saison issue.
re: ipsedixit
Yes, and the "Soup Nazi" business model was pretty successful, too, and more of a "you" problem for those that didn't like it.
But seriously, I haven't had a problem with Saison (other than clueless service when they were in the Mission), but I can see how their attitude could rub some people the wrong way. That's all I'm saying.
re: nocharge
I think as long a business is up front about it, it almost becomes a non-issue.
re: Ruth Lafler
The NY Times noticed it.
"One of them began around the second time the restaurant played Phil Collins. At Saison, if you don't share the chef's taste for '80s pop, you are out of luck. And that, combined with the length and cost of the meal, the occasional self-indulgence of the menu and the obliviousness of the servers, made the restaurant feel arrogant in a way that few places these days do."
re: nocharge
Note that the "One of them began around the second time the restaurant played Phil Collins" complaint referred to Pete Wells's first visit, and on his second they seemed to have improved things.
Except for the music.
re: Robert Lauriston
re: nocharge
didn't the chef get some coverage when, after someone left an unfavorable online review, he responded with:
"you know nothing about food. go travel the world for 10 years, and then come back and tell me how good my restaurant is."
re: Dustin_E
I went to Kappa tonight .
Having been in Japan for only 2 months and basing on that I thought the food was not that good .
I loved the couple running the restaurant , and loved the service , and respect the food traditional they are keeping alive
but the execution is just not there ,
There were moments , and flashes , but overall , no .
re: kid cha
For a lovely Japanese set course meal in Japantown, I would recommend Kiss, which to me is considerably better than Kappa.
For better still, there is Wakuriya in San Mateo, a proper Kaiseki restaurant. But getting there and back (as well as getting a reservation) is a much more difficult proposition.
As for the rest, I prefer Atelier Crenn for modern high-end, and La Folie for more traditional French high end. I did not think Benu or Coi or Quince were worth the money. Saison is the hardest to gauge; I enjoyed the experience but all the criticisms leveled here are valid and the wine pairings sucked. That said, if I had the money and it was a first time, I might still go. I'd go there before Coi or Benu for sure.
Oh and I'm the only one in San Francisco who feels this way, but AQ bugs the hell out of me and I dislike the food at Frances.
re: pauliface
When you come to san mateo, you can try the innumerable izakaya, yakitori, ramen, sushi shops. There's a lot of good japanese food in San Mateo --- various other postings.
re: kid cha
Ah. Kid Cha.
I see you mention a specific love of Japanese, which is my favorite, so I will say a bit more on that front:
I'm sorry that only Kappa was mentioned before I showed up. It is okay, but to me nothing special, though others here recommend it often.
As I've said, in that vein you are better off at Kiss and best off at Wakuriya in San Mateo.
Beyond that, for Sushi the best to me in town is Ino sushi. He is a dour man with a sushi nazi reputation and he uses too much wasabi, but to me his is hands down the best. Then there is Yume in alameda. Harder to get to but almost as good with a giant scallop to die for. If you go a rung down from there, you get to Sushi Aka Tombo and Zushi Puzzle. In all these cases you want to sit at the counter and order omakase.
For (non-sushi) less high end but still very good and interesting you should look into Kappou Goumi on Geary. This place is great but they do not take reservations and there can be a wait. They have a vast menu organized by fish type and under each fish several preparations. The chef here used to be at my favorite spot in SF (kiku of tokyo) but they closed. That place had more gracious service and some lovely set meals but Kappou's food is up to the same level.
For Izakaya style, we have the ultra refined Izakaya Yuzuki (forgot about them. For non-sushi they are probably tied with Kiss). Then next we have Izakaya Sozai (more genuine izakaya style, very neighborhoody and well priced) and Chotto in the marina (also excellent, a bit more trendy upscale feel, and I like their food more than others on this list).
I say that if you like japanese food, you can throw away the rest of this thread and just visit all these places in turn and you will have a great visit. (!!!!!!)
re: pauliface
Thanks !
I went to Ino Sushi my first night here .
Yes ; this is the real thing .
Reminds me of an old time sushi shop you would find on a side street in the Ningyocho section of Tokyo .
Actually I was going to go to Kiss but they are on vacation till the 16th of Oct .
The local sitting next to me said she thought Ino was better than Kiss .
2nd night I went to Yuzuki .
Best tofu I ever had !
I'll look into the other places .
re: kid cha
Ah, so it looks like you are alrady discovering my favorites!
Ino and Kiss should not necessarily be compared, as they are trying to do different things. Ino is sushi only.
Kiss creates a 5 to 6 course meal that incorparates a sushi course and a sashimi course. The sushi and sashimi he serves are pehaps comparable in quality to Ino, but not quite as good, smaller bites and almost never any unusuall kinds of fish. However, these 2 courses are incorporated with other seasonal courses that complement them beautifully.
If you can possibly get to Wakuriya, I urge you to do so. It's worth the drive and, if I understand you correctly, you will enjoy it immensely.
re: pauliface
@ pauliface - Have you had omakase with Kiyoshi-san at Koo recently?
Oh, and I used to be Aka-Tombo's #1 fan and advocate, but sadly can no longer recommend it based on my last couple of meals there.
re: pauliface
Hi pauliface, I think you would be pleasantly surprised. I usually ask to bypass the tsumami (other than one course of sashimi) and just go for 12 to 15 nigiri courses. Recent highlights included kohada, iwashi, sanma, hirame, engawa, and Hokkaido uni. He does a great job sourcing his neta and I really like his shari as well (although in my opinion it could be just a touch more vinegared). All omakase meals automatically get fresh grated wasabi at no additional cost. I like to go early evening (6 PM) when the restaurant is not busy, so as to have my chef's mostly undivided attention during the meal. This creates a nice pace with a new nigiri being offered every 2 minutes or so, which I think is optimal. I rarely pay more than $100 PP (including drinks and tip) which is fantastic considering the level of quality. I recommend you give him a try and would love to hear what you think.
Edit: oh, and the three chefs are all nice guys and generally jovial (although still very serious about their work) , which is quite different to the atmosphere at Ino.
re: od_sf
Okay! We're going to try Koo tonight.
It's been a while since a nice sushi meal; I'd been gearing up for a visit to Ino but we are going to try Koo. I'll write back with my impressions tomorrow.
Thanks od, and thanks Dustin....
P.S. Bypassing snacks? That is not my way. Especially the first time I will have no free will and express no special requests (unless asked, in which case I've got requests for however many times he asks: it's mirugai, uni, ikura, eel, salmon skin, tako, and saba in that order!!!).
re: pauliface
To a Sushi Nazi, you might want to be specific about the kind of eel !
re: pauliface
How was it? I was there last night as well (from 5:30 until 7, at the bar) and had a sublime meal. Had katsuo, toro, hamachi toro, kamasu (amazing!), sanma, aji, hirame, kanpachi, really amazing kohada, and more. Really great. October and November are my favorite months for sushi.
re: pauliface
koo is definitely worth a try. a good friend and sushi fanatic prefers their omakase to ino's.
re: kid cha
sorry you didn't like Kappa. Thanks for reporting back, though. looks like you win this one, pauliface :-) do you know sake? if so, what did you think of kappa's sake selection? (i don't but am curious how it stacks up.)
to be fair, though, i think both manhattan and tokyo set a pretty high bar for japanese food.
glad you thought ino was good. did you do omakase? any pieces in particular you thought were better than others?
i agree kappou gomi (especially their seasonal menu -- their all the time menu i've found less good) and atelier crenn are good recommendations. i like chotto as well, but suspect perhaps their standards might be slipping recently.
re: Dustin_E
Kappa has a short well curated sake list .
Had the omakase at Ino where it was all good ; no pieces in particular were better than others .
commonwealth is worth the 65 for the tasting menu. i cook for a living and am blow away everytime i go


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Hunter Biden tested positive in 2013 and was discharged earlier this year, but only now just a few weeks away from the election does the story break. MORE
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text: Jerrad Anderson/Townsquare Media [ Cowboys' Charles Hankerson Jr. Suspended By David Settle February 24, 2014 In a release from the University of Wyoming, men's basketball coach Larry Shyatt announced Monday that red-shirt junior guard Charles Hankerson Jr. has been suspended indefinitely from the team. Read More|Comment Category: News, Sports Commentary Tags: basketball, NCAA Basketball, University of Wyoming, wyoming cowboys Send to a friend! Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Pin it! Reddit This! Share on Tumblr!


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FORT WAYNE – The city of Fort Wayne has abandoned its efforts to conduct an emergency condemnation of the Hallmark Inn.
On Wednesday, city officials announced they had vacated their emergency condemnation order, making a court hearing unnecessary, and instead would seek condemnation through the normal, administrative hearing process.
Last week, Neighborhood Code ordered the extended-stay motel on the city's eastern edge to close and gave its 50-plus residents 24 hours to get out.
But the owners of the motel at 3730 E. Washington Blvd. challenged the directive in Allen Circuit Court and won an order delaying the condemnation until after a hearing had been held.
Officials said at the time that the motel was unsafe for habitation, with stairwells, balconies and parts of the foundation in a significantly deteriorated state.
The repairs they have made have been substandard, Cindy Joyner, deputy director of Neighborhood Code, said last week. At this point, we feel like we don't have any other recourse than to move through the condemnation process for the health and safety of the people there.
The law allows the city to skip the administrative process in an emergency to protect health and safety, but attorneys for motel owner Rajesh Patel argued that no emergency existed since the city waited 20 days after an engineer inspected the building and eight days after it got the engineer's written report before it issued its emergency order.
The (city's) own documents establish that no emergency exists in this case, Patel's attorneys wrote in their petition to the court. If there were an imminent threat it does not follow that the Respondent would allow nine days from the time it received the (engineer's) report to the imposition of the requirement vacating the property.
City officials said they will continue their assessment of the Hallmark Inn, and that if necessary improvements aren't made to the motel in a reasonable period of time, the city will take further action because the building has serious safety issues that need to be addressed.


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Search the collections
Where is it from?
- A Maker Manchester, United Kingdom
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Watch Paper - Thomas P. Joyce, Manchester, circa 1860 Reg. No: HT 20618
- Summary:
- Watch paper produced by Thomas P. Joyce watchmaker, Manchester, circa 1860.
- Description:
- Square blue paper card. Front, printed edging illustrations and text in black ink. Blue paper sheet adhered to reverse.
|53 mm (Height), 53 mm (Width)
More information
|Tagged with:
|watch accessories, watch papers, watches
|Themes this item is part of:
|Horology Collection, Science & Measurement Collection
|Primary Classification:
|Secondary Classification:
|Tertiary Classification:
|Front, printed, "JEWELLERY REPAIRED. CLOCKS WOUND BY YEARLY CONTRACT. / THOMAS P. JOYCE. / Watch and Clock / MAKER / 228 Stretford New Road / MANCHESTER. / GOLD WEDDING RINGS AND ENGRAVING NEATLY EXECUTED".
|Thomas Joyce, Manchester, England, Great Britain, circa 1860
B. Loomes, Watchmakers and Clockmakers of the World, notes Thomas Price Joyce operating in Manchester, 1856-1870.
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Posted: Mar 12, 2013 6:17 PM
Updated: Mar 13, 2013 12:06 AM
CAMERON COUNTY - South Padre Island officials say an increase in police presence should keep Spring Breakers safe during Texas Week.
Police arrested more than 100 people during the first four days of Spring Break, officials said. The town's court will be open seven days a week to accommodate the larger-than-usual number of people going before a judge.
"We have a team of 10 officers working 12-hour shifts to be able to have enough manpower," Cameron County Park Rangers Chief Horacio Zamora said. The rangers enforce the law at county beaches on the island.
Zamora said the crowds have been calm. He expects a larger influx by Thursday.
The park rangers are one of several law enforcement agencies keeping the peace on the island.
"We've had several meetings with various agencies, both local and state, in preparation for Spring Break," South Padre Island Assistant Chief of Police Javier Garza said.
South Padre Island relies on Pharr and Mission, among other cities, for help with equipment during Spring Break, Garza said.
Island visitors noticed the increased patrols.
"I do see a lot more cops, and security is crazy right now," one young man said.
"The police ... they're on their stuff," another visitor said.
Police said it is all about keeping order on the island.


text:
Lurker finally posting!
Find a Conversation
|Fri, 01-15-2010 - 6:55pm
Hi ladies,
So I have been reading these boards for about 6 months now. This is my 5th month TTC a girl. My hubby and I have 2 adorable little guys already and would love a daughter to complete our family. I have altered my diet. I'm taking Calcium, Magnesium and Cranberry. I'm drinking Crystal Light like it's nobody's business. I'm using Replens every other day til O. We started with a 4-day cutoff, then 3, then a couple 2-day cutoffs... Sheesh! This is just taking forever! So... this month, I am not charting or taking ph, and we are just going for it! Is that even a sway?! LOL
Like everyone says, I would love love love to have another little boy. There is something so special about brothers. But, yes, there is someone missing... Even my two guys, age 3 and 2, say they want a sister! Wish me luck!
|Sat, 01-16-2010 - 6:45pm
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|Tue, 01-19-2010 - 7:41am
welcome to the board! I am also TTC a girl as well and have had no success though i think we might have done it this month. I am due for AF tonight,tomorrow Am at the latest. We were TTC for 6 cycles (including this). Just to tell you, i only did the long cutoff of 3 days for one month and than after that i went with a 1 1/2 day cutoff. I gradually got closer to O, not because i necessarily wasn't getting pregnant. The more i read, the more i kept finding that timing (for many) isn't the biggest factor and since i was doing so much else,
|Thu, 01-21-2010 - 12:55am
That's ok, Erin. I've noticed that a lot of people don't place as much value in the cut-off... and I'm just hoping that however my sway works out is enough for me. :-) When my boys were conceived, I was not tracking my cycles at all, so I've been gathering as much information as I can from everyone else's experiences. This whole swaying thing can be so stressful. I am really having a hard time this month just remembering that baby making should be fun, and it is such an amazing time for us! I really want that to be the focus this next month for me, and not as much about stressing about those darn 7 sway factors! lol
So I am currently on CD 21. I think I O'd on day 18, but didn't use OPKs this month. I had planned to just DTD through O, and just get preggers already! BUT hubby got sick, so the last day we BD was on day 15. I suppose there's a chance this could be the month, but I'm not really feeling it.
Good luck to everyone!


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Secrets of Hungarian Cooking. Boy I was really hoping someone on zaar had already posted this beast, but of course, if they have I couldn't find it. It looks like it was made a lot. If anyone knows something about these bad boys, please feel free to add input. There are 4 filling recipes so if you're wanting those, here they are.
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Partida Blanco Tequila
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750ml Bottle $209.94(Reg:$227.94)
Case of 6
750ml Bottle $209.94(Reg:$227.94)
Case of 6
Item #114331
Size: 750ml
Type: Tequila / Mezcal
Varietal: Blanco
Country: Mexico
Proof: 80
"Bright, vibrant fruity and floral agave aromas of grilled pineapple and plums. A silky entry leads to a round dry-yet-fruity medium-full body of rich grilled pineapple, toasted coconut, powdered sugar, herbs, black pepper, and spice. Finishes with a long, lingering agave and fresh herb fade. Excellent."
Reviewed by: Beverage Testing Institute
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Don Julio Blanco Tequila
"The flavor is dry, very oily, and well-endowed at palate entry; the midpalate adds tastes of black pepper, tar and dried herbs, and the aftertaste features a unique oiliness that is irresistible. This is one of the most singular tequila bouquets of the last ten years, and is the most exciting silver to be released in the last three years."
$33.99 / 750ml Bottle
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Jose Cuervo Platino Tequila
"Clear with a faint straw cast. Deep, multilayered, and evolving aromas of suede, cheese, cedar, dried flowers, and stone fruits. An exceptionally smooth and effortless entry leads to a silky, dry-yet-fruity full body of creamy vanilla bean, roasted pineapple, nuts, figs, leather, and grilled yellow peppers. Finishes with a very long and spicy fade of honey, salt, exotic peppercorns, and green herbs. Elegant, vibrant, and delicious with a superbly smooth texture and a very complex agave character supported by a kiss of spicy oak. A truly unique blanco tequila."
$49.99 / 750ml Bottle
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1. Jack Frost (1998)
directed by Troy Miller
featuring Michael Keaton, Kelly Preston, Mark Addy, Joseph Cross, Henry Rollins, Dweezil Zappa, Ahmet Zappa, Trevor Rabin
Michael Keaton stars in this special-effects-heavy Christmas film about a boy who discovers, after his father dies in a car accident, that his dad is ... More
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2. Desperate Measures (1998)
directed by Barbet Schroeder
featuring Michael Keaton, Andy Garcia, Brian Cox, Marcia Gay Harden, Erik King, Joseph Cross
Although he enjoyed great critical success with crime dramas and slice-of-life pictures, director Barbet Schroeder continued dabbling in the thriller ... More
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3. Born 2 Race (2011)
directed by Alex Ranarivelo
featuring Joseph Cross, John Pyper-Ferguson, Sherry Stringfield, Nicole Badaan, Brando Eaton
A headstrong teenage street racer moves in with his estranged father and puts his skills to the ultimate test in a bid to become a legitimate race ... More
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A serial killer with a sickening knack for showmanship and a keen sense of technological know-how sets up a graphic website to taunt the FBI and ... More
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5. Jimmy P: Psychotherapy of a Plains Indian (2014)
directed by Arnaud Desplechin
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Inspired by a true story, Arnaud Desplechin's Jimmy P: Psychotherapy of a Plains Indian details the powerful bond that forms between a Native ... More
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6. Falling Up (2009)
directed by David M. Rosenthal
featuring Joseph Cross, Sarah Roemer, Snoop Dogg, Mimi Rogers, Rachael Leigh Cook
A hotel doorman falls for the daughter of the wealthiest residents in the building, discovering that love knows no social boundaries as their playful ... More
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7. The Spring (2000)
directed by David S. Jackson
featuring Joseph Cross, Kyle MacLachlan, Alison Eastwood, George Eads, Aaron Pearl
While on a vacation in the Pacific Northwest, widower Nick Conway (Kyle McLachlan) and his son Dennis (Joseph Cross) are involved in a car accident. ... More
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8. Citizen Gangster (2012)
directed by Nathan Morlando
featuring Scott Speedman, Kelly Reilly, Kevin Durand, Joseph Cross, William Mapother, Brendan Fletcher
The true story of one of Canada's most famous bandits comes to the big screen in this drama from writer and director Nathan Morlando. In 1949, Edwin ... More
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9. Wide Awake (1998)
directed by M. Night Shyamalan
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In this film by writer-director M. Night Shyamalan, a young boy learns lessons about life and God during a trying year of discovery in fifth grade at ... More
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10. Son of Morning (2010)
directed by Yaniv Raz
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11. Art Machine (2014)
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text:
About Conference
ISQT takes immense pleasure and pride in announcing "Non-Conventional Software Test Automation Conference at Bangalore on 19-20th November 2014". Software test automation has evolved over the years. Now is the time to learn on Scripting in Test Automation and also, Codeless Automation.As we know, First Generation Record & Playback test automation made regression tests feasible; Second Generation Testing Tools are with use and reuse of functions and they enabled automation professionals to automate a wider variety of testing tasks; Third Generation Test Automation focused on separating data from scripts and also, helped in increasing test coverage and maintainability. Fourth Generation Test Automation approach overcomes scripting issues by replacing scripts with keywords.
About STEP-AUTO
ISQT's Step Auto conferences have always been credited with introducing New Approaches, Techniques, Tools and Best Practices on Software Testing. These events aim at converging Test Leadership, Management & Innovative Test Strategies.
The tracks and topics of the conference are carefully chosen and designed to cater to the needs of testing community's enthusiastic participants.
About ISQT
ISQT Process & Consulting Services Pvt. Ltd. with idiom 'Value First', is a Bangalore based Process Consulting and High-End Training Company.
ISQT is a value-based, vision-driven, mission-focused organization whose client-centric services have roots in a systemic view and a holistic approach.
Past Conferences
• Agile Best Practices Conference
26th - 27th June'13 | Bangalore
• Test Process Improvement Conference
3rd May'13 | Bangalore


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Well it was a good lunch with a life long friend. But Ponderosa needs to hire people that can at least be able to make change. The bill was $6.35, so I gave the kid $20.35. Now lets do the math here, how hard can it be to see or know I had $16.00 coming in change. She got it wrong and not only did she get that wrong but she tried to say I gave her correct change. My response was, did I not give you a single legal piece of tender. Response was yes it must have been a $10.00 bill. My response, if that were the case would you not have one in the cash drawer (of which there was none)! After gettin my change I realized she still screwed up and gave me $.65 in coins along with paper money, I said here's your coins that I shouldn't have. She took them and then slammed the drawed, I din't even ask where thje other dollar was as I only got $13.00 back. We are in big trouble with the incompitence of these uneducated people today!
Ponderosa Steak House Corporate Office & Headquarters7582 West Sand Lake Road Orlando FL 32819
Ponderosa Steak House corporate phone number:(407) 352-9012
104 Reviews For Ponderosa Steak House Headquarters & Corporate Office
Poor management
They have hard working employees that need better management in Washington Indiana good food but service and lack of quality management shows at this place I say fire the to magagers n make get in 2 quality one and that give fair opportunities n don't favor anyone
not happy
I am not happy wirh them. They said that all the tables was for big crowds and we couldn't sit there and we could only eat at a booth and they got all snobby. There wasnt many ppl there and they wasn't hardly anyone there. So we just got up and left.
Not happy
I have gone two Fridays in a row for your all you can eat crab legs . Get two plates of them then be told there all out that's not all you can eat . If your not going to have enough you should not run this special that's false advertising . Or you should do something to please the people who pay for your special and get told you get no more . That sure is a bad way to run your chain .
I LOVE Ponderosa! My only complaint is that you moved out of the Albany, NY area. PLEASE come back!!
We visited the ponderosa today in south point ohio. The server was friendly and only because of that did we not run for our lives. I let my child eat some ice cream. Everything was dried out and rotted. Pretty sure the Mac and cheese is the same cheese used on nachos, the stuffing looked like soup. I was embarrassed I even went in there. And sadly we could have eaten at McDonald's for half the price and not risked food poisoning. It won't surprise me when this entire franchise goes out of business.
Cold & Bad Food
Went into the Ponderosa Steak House in Traverse City, MI. It was AWFUL. The hot food on the buffet was cold, dried out of what they had to offer, nothing was full. Had to ask for hot food. It was their lunch time. Their menu is terrible on the buffet. I complained, you'd think they would have taken something off the bill, NO!!! I will never go there again. No wonder they don't have alot of people going in there. I live in Traverse City. It use to be a good place to eat but has gone down hill.
piss poor service
I came to the Ponderosa In Arnold Mo. With a funeral party with 49 people when i accidently knocked over 2 high chairs the manger kicked me out and then called the police piss poor customer service
bad experience
We where on our way to get something to eat and we seen ponderosa on telegraph and Warren rd and when we got there we where over charged by 4.00 and the person at the register did not know what she was doing and said she would get the manager then 15 min later she give us our money mean while we start getting our food and everything looks horrible but I get passed that start eating everything is cold and not done all the way the chicken wings that they specialized in where pink in the middle then after eating we go and get desert from bar everything is old and the ice cream was nasty for paying 15 dollars a person I would never go back sorry about my long rant but I would never go back or want anyone to experience what we did
Food & Quality
Upon my visit today at Ponderosa 10/6/2013 - In Urbana, Ohio - I would strongly advise any customers NOT to eat their PISS POOR Buffet - Food was just Unhealthy to eat - Complained to the Manager of how bad the food was - told me to write to corporate headquarter or hit the door! I was appalled and totally ruin my day. Never did get my refund on the purchase for 2.
I went to Binghamton ny last night "ponderosa" and sad to see the writing on the wall saying "this will be the next restaurant to close". The restaurant was sending people away saying no credit card machine working..are you kidding me!! Having worked for Visa there is always a back up procedure. Usually merchants will do this when they can't afford to pay their discount fee any longer. The food was old and dried out. Their summer buffet they call it had watermelon and uncut pieces of pineapple. The staff were standing around laughing loudly with the waitress flinging her hair about next to the buffet fixing her ponytail. Good bye ponderosa...too bad you have lack of management and pride.
Harborcreek Closing...
Can anyone tell me why Ponderosa in Harborcreek closed with out notice to it's employees ? Some of them worked there for a large number of years and deserved more then a 1 hour notice ! First shift staff was a great group of people and like family . Even the bosses are heart broken due to the closing. It has been since March 22 ,2013 and NOTHING has gone in there . Why the abrupt closing ? They were making money ! The regular customers are dumb founded too .
I went to ponderosa steakhouse in syracuse n.y. for a celebration dinner for my family. I was very disappointed with the food /service at this restaurant. IMy son wanted mac and cheese and pizza we kept going up to the buffet for these items and there was none of either just a empty container. fifteen minutes passed before more was put out. there were plenty of crackers out but no soup of any kind out. taco meat container empty except for a few dried up pieces of meat only two taco shells out and they were broken. The dessert sectiion was a mess broken cake pieces all over the counter. not a good selection of desserts. I usually always go to this restuarant but I dont know if there was a problem the night i went 6/4/13 at 540 to 630pm, but i paid 60.oo to eat here with my family i am not rich and we were all disappointed. I dont think i will risk paying 60.00 for a bad experience again..
I went to New Hartford Ny today and it wasn't worth two dollars let alone the eighteen I paid for two people... Everything was either low or out and no one seemed to care... It was so hot in there I couldn't wait to leave! Won't ever go back!!!
Dont give rats as-s.
Forget telling these butt holes about your dining experiences, no one gets back with you, and all you get is a recorded message to speak too.Trust me, corp. doesnt give a rats as-s, because i've called 7 times,, No one ever called me back.
Restaurant experience
On 4/29/13 I came into ponderosa in new Hartford I wanted to say that my past experience wasn't the best but I went into the restaurant recently and must say it was a lot better. The food was food good and hot also the buffet was also clean which I was very pleased with.I also wanted to compliment the waitress that I had because she showed me very good customer service that I was pleased with. I will be back again hoping to get the same experience I received this time
orlando ponderosa
Horrible. All food orders were messed up and we were told to sort it all out on our own. Shrimp was extremely rare and no one seemed to care after we complained. Didn't even offer to take anything off the bill. The waitress basically said it wasn't her fault. Steak was extremely overcooked and not much on the buffet line. Unfortunately we only left $3 for Nancy, our server on an $80 bill because of poor food quality and lack of respect for people ls money. Now we know why Sizzler is dominating the "budget" steakhouse market. Good luck staying in business. Doesn't even rate half a star. Expect a call corporate and a surprise health inspection of your facilities.
Sad to see closing
Sad to see Ponderosa close in Harborcreek, Pa. The food was always good, prices reasonable and the management and employees were like family. What a shock
I am very disappointed
Unfortunately I was shocked by my first visite for restaurant Bandaruza ((Amman,Jordan ).it's my favorite restaurants since I was a resident of one of the Gulf countries .. site restaurant is good,Restaurant Cleanliness is very good, but the food,Terrible food I am very disappointed.
closing ponderosa
I am very disappointed to see that all the Ponderosa's in Erie, PA have closed. We loved to go for lunch every week and dinner occassionally. Everything was always delicious and they were always busy. I dont understand why it would close. Harborcreek's location was the last one open. We will miss it!


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Bio: I have been playing guitar for over 30 years. After taking a break that lasted way too long, the creative juices are flowing again. I write and record instrumental music of various styles. My roots are in heavy metal, but I have strived to expand to include some acoustic, blues, old rockabilly/su... See Full BioMore Info
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Manager: Benjamin Hall
The Further Adventures of FatBoy and JiveTurkey
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