text:
Ready or not, IPv6 is coming
Google last week touted the benefits and ease of switching to IPv6, the next generation internet protocol, while the IT world in general remains resolutely indifferent about the technology. Uptake of IPv6 is low, despite predictions that IPv4 numbers will become used up in as little as two years. A recent survey by the Internet …
We have to disable it on our servers otherwise it messes with PHP's picking up of IP addresses (returns "::1"), or it's IIS that doesn't like it. Either way, causes issues. I hear Exchange doesn't like it either.
Apolgies if this was on page 2 or 3, got lunch to eat and boring technical comments to impart :)
I think most system admins and general IT bods would be happy to use IPv6 at home and work as long as their ISPs supported it, which they don't, so well, meh.
OFCOM should give them a quick poke :) Once Bloody Terrible (BT) and Vermin Media are forced onboard, then the rest will follow.
Paris; cause she can could show OFCOM how to...
IPv6 is a Value Subtract Service
The trouble is, from a business rather than techie point of view IPv6 is a "Value Subtract Service".
Its mostly ISPs who need to implement it (little point in buying IPv6 endgear without transit), but
IPv6 was designed as "just a small fix" : the same functionality, almost, as IPv4, but you no longer
get a side-market in static IP addresses. You only have to pay extra for dual-stack gear.
So ISPs only move to IPv6 when the pain is sufficient, such as Asians running out of IPv4,
or US cable modem giants for who 10.0.0.0/8 NAT isn't large enough.
The techie problem with NAT, though is the way it breaks so many apps, and routing: You really don't want lots of /32 servers out there.
Memory Problems
The youngsters may be OK but old farts like me can just about manage to remember something like 192.168.3.11 and would be unlikely to be able to cope with longer addresses.
Have a nice weekend.
Google and IPv6?
$ host www.google.com
www.google.com is an alias for www.l.google.com.
www.l.google.com has address 22.214.171.124
www.l.google.com has address 22.214.171.124
www.l.google.com has address 184.108.40.206
www.l.google.com has address 126.96.36.199
I see no IPv6 address.
Expiry date
As they state on their site, Intec NetCore get the data for their countdown timer from the analysis at http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/index.html
Another use of this data is at http://atchoo.org/ipv4/ , where I started logging the date predictions. It shows that the predicted date is extending into the future, for better or worse.
Well, no, it's not coming
IPv6 is one of the biggest fiascos in modern technology history. It was a horrible design that totally avoided the real issues that needed to be addressed. It encourages route proliferation, overloading the backbone. Any objective evaluation would throw it out as a low-quality undergraduate paper. Indeed it was glommed together by the "F-troop" of a committee (the people who knew what they were taking about left the IPNG project because it was being run by the fundies). Yet the IETF and the Internet Magisterium have been peddling this sack of rot since before the Internet was even open to the general public. Nobody's buying.
For what it's worth, most IPv4 addresses are not in use. What are running out are virgin homestead addresses. So what? We sell land that the King once issued to somebody long dead. Why shouldn't IPv4 addresses be recycled? But wait -- IPv6 has NO compatibility with IPv4, so EVERY SITE that uses IPv6 MUST have an IPv4 address or not be reached by IPv4 users. So until 100% of the world is on V6, which even the IPv6 backers think will take a decade, they all need IPv4 addresses anyway. (NAT can help conserve them, regardless of any IPv6 transition.) But if they all have v4 addresses, why go to v6? No chickens or eggs.
The Internet world needs to rethink its protocol suite, and stop listening to the box peddlers who see gold in hardware-intensive, service-intensive disasters like IPv6 and IMS.
IPv6 and the iPhone
The iPhone doesn't support IPv6 which is a bit ironic as it is one of the offenders that is leading to the demise of IPv4 address space.
I want to run IPv6 at home - why? Because I can. I'm not sure if the Acer Aspire One with the Linux build supports IPv6. I'll tell you if it does when the iPhone does.
The "IPv4 Exhaustion Counter" looks fun. Something I'll be checking on regularly.
porn first
If all the porn went to v6 then home users would be beating on the doors of ISPs demanding an upgrade. You can practically hear the chants of the masses as they storm their local ISP.
"What do we want?
IPv6 PORN!
When do we want it?
The exhaustion counters is bunk, though
I started following it in November. At that time it was reading 789 days.
Today, 6 months later, it's reading 790 days.
It just isn't going down... either we aren't running out (logically you'd think we would be) or these counters are basically making up numbers, and aren't useful.
My own personal betting is we've got 10 years - we'll need it given the work that's required to convert applications, upgrade routers, firewalls, etc. that has barely begun and doesn't look like it's going to speed up any time soon (nobody has yet come up with a business case for ipv6, and business isn't going to move until there's a pretty solid case).
It's simple...
The way to get any technology or product into the business, or even home, markets is simple. You make it available to the techs who have to install/support it and you show them a reason why they could possibly want it.
So far the opinions I've heard/seen are as follows:
1. IPv6 involves long awkward addresses that we have no idea how to force to be static, or even how to remember them for each device. It's difficult enough remembering the IPv4 addresses for the 8 devices on this 100-machine network let alone what the IPv6 addresses would be.
2. IPv6 causes horrible horrible problems. Applications, DNS queries (even on brand newly installed networks), and general network connectivity goes down the pan when you're trying to co-exist IPv4 and IPv6. IPv6-only networks just don't work either. How are we going to prepare and support things that just don't work?
3. What we have works. It's that simple. In the case of NAT situations all we need is an IPv6 address for the external devices that translate at the firewall and are forwarded onto the IPv4 address. From current experience we don't believe that is going to work.
4. We can't see why a simpler system couldn't have been used. I know the obvious complaints and negativity about it, but why isn't it possible for the current IPv4 system to just be extended? This (and I know the main reasons) could include separation by nation, for example - that way identification of where the intrusion attempts and spam are coming from (coughEasternEuropeAfricaandFarEastcoughsplutter) could be isolated more easily and those who don't want communication with those nations could block them by choice and only open up specific addresses for the times someone they want to communicate with was available.
We aren't against new systems, but when they seem this crap we see no reason to take it up.
Fred makes a good point.
And not only for the needless route proliferation.
There is no way to have a PI address in v6, which makes it useless for those of us that have more useful things to do with the internet than look at porn.
The only good IPv6 is a dead IPv6
See also RFC5514.
Good luck with...
...persuading Grandma to either buy a new router to replace one that is working fine or upgrading the firmware in it to support a protocol that her ISP isn't offering yet and has no incentive to offer because there's no-one at EITHER end of the pipe.
Now if someone were to make IPv6 support a legal requirement (wouldn't need to be worldwide, doing it in any large market would result in the code being developed and tested, at which point it may as well be shipped everywhere) then it would at least be possible for a slow drift to occur.
I don't know if that's a good thing, though. The obvious "service" that might drive IPv6 is the fact that IPv4+NAT makes peer-to-peer such a bind. Increased adoption of IPv6 is therefore likely to result in millions of ill-secured boxes (currently hidden behind the non-addressability of NAT) directly on the web.
Same old same old
We've been running out of ip address space for years. Standard scare story. Until its made backwards compatible this baby ain't going nowhere.
Here's a thought, audit ISPs of their use of existing IP address space. How about getting back all the class Bs that were given out in the early days for instance.
@Ian Chard - that's because it's not as simple as that
See : http://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/
It depends which DNS server you're using. Even if you're not one of the 'qualified servers' you can still use ipv6.google.com :
$ nslookup -q=aaaa ipv6.google.com
Non-authoritative answer:
ipv6.google.com canonical name = ipv6.l.google.com.
ipv6.l.google.com has AAAA address 2001:4860:a003::68
It only works if you have IPV6.
There is absolutely no way IPV6 will be popular in two years even with a decent business driver. There's only one ISP in the UK that'll supply IPV6 by default. The IPV6 tunnel brokers are not trivial to set up, simple to apply to or completely without limitations in some cases. ISP's supplying IPV6 will require equipment upgrades and it has no use for 99.999% of users.
Not to mention that the predominant OS (XP) does not enable IPV6 by default. Vista, Windows 7 and pretty much all modern Unixes do, but it'll take a while for them to become the majority. Consumer level embedded routers/firewalls don't support IPV6, either, so this is going to remain a server/business class technology for at least 5-10 years.
If you're a techie user, there's no reason not to fiddle around with it - choose a free tunnel broker and go through the hassle of applying and either setting up a tunnel directly to a system (danger! firewalling required!), or better make your own firewall which routes IPV6 traffic over the tunnel. Some tunnel brokers are rather crap, though, and it's not fun trying to figure out whether the fault in establishing a connection is at their end or yours..
on the other hand...
Think about the people who are being helped by the delay. Do you think the Anti-P2P group Bluetack Internet Security Services (bluetack.co.uk) could really convert their blocklists from blocking 30% of the IPv4 space, to IPv6? and how would they do it?? They'll have to make up whole new lists from scratch!
It's these followon effects that harm small UK businesses like Bluetack, that are often overlooked....
@Google and IPv6
Google is running IPv6 alright, but you can't see that because you're not on a privileged network. :-)
@Fred: It's coming, ready or not. You almost make it sound like IPv4 had no flaws. :-) Many things in the IPv6 standard are sub optimal, but saying that no good people contributed to it makes you look like you don't know anything about how the protocol was/is being developed. And on reclaiming IPv4 address space: How do you know what address space is unused? Please don't make the conclusion that unannounced and unused is the same.
The chicken/egg thing about IPv6 is readily solvable: Dual stack implementations.
"Uptake of IPv6 is low, despite predictions that IPv4 numbers will become used up in as little as two years."
Maybe that's because I've been hearing this for at least 6 years. Go ahead, cry "wolf!" again...
Come on guys....
Let me get this straight... enough IP addresses for everybody on the planet, no NAT....
One doesn't need to be a genius why a behavioural advertiser would be enthusiastic about IPV6.
Or maybe I'm just a sad old cynic?
Give users the option and they might take it.
Look at the very existence of the dynamic DNS services - they aren't out there as interesting ideas, but are being put to use doing real work. Why? Because people want to address their machines remotely for whatever reason and need to know their machine's IP address. Of course there is going to be an overlap period while both protocols are in use but if you offer the user something on IPv6 that they can't have on v4 - a static IP address - people will gladly take it so they can remotely access their file system, printer or whatever. Right now there are too many hoops to jump through and so the technology does not catch on.
If users have an address that they can use - even an IPv6 one - then surely you will see new developments allowing people to genuinely use their home equipment as a server and access it remotely. The carrot for the end user is there - the blame lies squarely with the ISPs and telcos for not supporting and promoting the new protocol.
Running it here
My home network has a /48 allocated to it. When I hit Google, I do so over IPv6, because my upstream DNS resolver is registered in Google's v6 programme as one of the resolvers it should always return AAAA records for (as opposed to normal, where they only return them if you look up ipv6.google.com to avoid breakage):
[mo@pip ~]$ host www.google.com
www.google.com is an alias for www.l.google.com.
www.l.google.com has address 188.8.131.52
www.l.google.com has address 184.108.40.206
www.l.google.com has address 220.127.116.11
www.l.google.com has address 220.127.116.11
www.l.google.com has IPv6 address 2001:4860:a003::68
Excepting my iPod touch (see iPhone comments from Jez above - and rdar 6747399) and PSP, I think every device on this network has a public, routeable […and firewalled] v6 address. I'd be reading this via IPv6 now if El Reg had v6 transit to its servers. Even The Pirate Bay has an IPv6 tracker.
Indeed, that's the problem: hosting providers aren't willing to support v6. I asked ours and they told us they had no plans at all. MInd you, the more people who ask, the more providers will start to think about it. Same with ISPs (though it's arguably easier to get a tunnel into your network that's suitable for browsing as compared to one for hosting critical stuff).
I think the point of Google's statements isn't that 2009 will be the year of IPv6, but that it'll be the year that IPv6 gets talked about a lot more, and will probably see a lot more growth than it has previously. Lots of people *are* taking an interest, and a lot of the hassles in getting set up from years gone by just don't exist anymore. Getting a tunnel is easy, if you know how.
Where I work...
...we use most of a class-B space, but our new test-infrastructure is running on 10.x.x.x behind a NAT. Presumably we will eventually be able to trade in our Class-B on a Class-C address space and release most of those 64k addresses back into the wild.
We explicitly don't want P2P traveling off our local network, so NAT makes perfect sense in that case.
Freeing up more class A/B spaces for ISPs to divy up as /28 and/or /29 blocks to small users wanting a static IP and big NAT users could keep compact addresses going even longer. My TAFE netcomms teacher always claimed that we are not really running out of v4 addresses so much as large blocks of addresses are being hoarded by organisations who have long since gone NAT for security reasons and could do just as well on a class-C address.
Come on, El Reg
Why can't I access El Reg via IPv6?
I've been using IPv6 (dual stacked) for quite a while, and it's disappointing that so few content providers aren't up and running yet. Here's an inconvenient truth: whatever form of denial people are in, we *will* run out of IPv4 addresses in the next few years; get over it.
For Google, try ipv6.google.com. Their regular DNS names only resolve to IPv6 addresses if your ISP is one that they recognise to be IPv6-capable. If you really want to know, try http://[2001:4860:b003::68], but only if you know you have good IPv6 connectivity.
One of the first things you do to speed up ubuntu
Is disable it ... meh
It's simple
@Paul Charters:
1. 128 bits is indeed hard to remember. But do you remember all the the IPv4 addresses of the websites you visit? No, you use DNS, like you don't remember all the phone numbers in your phone. You use the names in your phone book. DNS works with IPv6.
2. Can you back your claim up? I run both IPv6 and IPv4 in parallel and I have no problems.
3. What we have, works, but badly. It is a pain in the ass to connect two computers who are both behind NAT to connect. Ever tried to connect your 192.168.0.1 to my 192.168.0.1? You need a bunch of tricks to get it to work. The result is slow and error prone connections that sort of work.
4. IPv6 *is* simpler than IPv4. IPv6 was developed to address short comings in the IPv4 protocol. Please look up IPv4 and IPv6 on wikipedia and take a look at the header format. You'll notice that IPv4's protocol header looks cluttered and IPv6's protocol header look much simpler. Simpler is better, faster. Extending IPv4 would make it even more complicated and cluttered. Separating by nation defeats the purpose of internet, i.e. to connect everything with everything, regardless of location.
Artificial shortage
For over a decade I've been saying that we are not running out of IP addresses but we are running out of routes and history keeps driving that point home as the routers between major networks keep getting overloaded. My idea from the lear 90s was to assign only /24 blocks and tell the ISPs and the router manufactures they they are just going to have to cope with 16 million routes in their routers and get over it. AT&T built a router to do just this sometime in 1995 so its not that hard.
making IPv6 a requirement
The US DoD decided to transition to IPv6 by 2008. I don't know if they met their deadline though...
The G20 of IT
Just get together and make it work or else sod off, simple.
Not that well thought out
v6 is a messy protocol that greatly increases the ratio of overhead to useful data in a transaction. The arguments for it are not that convincing which is why the takeup's been so slow. We were getting dire warnings about the imminent end of the available v4 address space a decade ago but it never really came to much because most people aren't doing peer-to-peer transactions (not directly, anyway).
I am resigned to having to move to v6 sooner rather than later.
v6 in two hours.
Google getting front to back support in 18 calendar months is impressive, but people will smaller infrastructures will be fine. I got it rolled out across our backbone in 2 hours, and our systems team are rolling out v6 support to our services in turn. We have a new rule that any new services need to be available via dual stack. It will take us 3 months to fully roll out v6 support everywhere.
A bit late in the day ..
In Japan and Far East they're using it (AFAIK) rather extensively. Why? Well, the US wasn't going to give those people a sensible size IP address allocation so they had to - the result is that they are about a decade ahead in their use of IPv6 and causes the US political grief because some other nation is technologically ahead.
History repeats itself: the US restricted technology access to other places they didn't like. The Russians and Chinese couldn't get decent computers or software, so they had to figure out how things worked themselves. They thus more or less self-trained to be a lot more efficient and inventive with what they had. And didn't quite fall for MS in the way the US friends and family clubs did - that's a double advantage right there.
God help us if the US starts restricting the Taliban.
Coming to Russia this year
One of Russia's largest ISPs, Stream, is making it available to all subscribers this year:
"Now at any point of our network, which interacts with the Internet, is IPv4, and IPv6. To our client- operators we already allow above the IPv4- connection IPv6- transit into the global IPv6- Internet. Important clients, who have the distributed corporate networks, have begun to manifest interest in this. In this year we intend to give access into the IPv6- Internet to all subscribers of Stream, although for this it is necessary to solve an array of problems, first of all with the support Of iPv6 on the service equipment."
Translated from the end of an article that also goes into the negatives:
@Ken Hagan
>> Now if someone were to make IPv6 support a legal requirement...
Is that a hint for us to all write to our MPs? If it were the motor industry, they would have no problem legislating.
Anyone out there sell a home ADSL router with native ipv6 for less than three hundred quid?
Last time i looked i couldn't find one. That's what's stopping me going ipv6.
@same old same old
I agree entirely. How long should ISPs retain unused addresses before allocating them to someone else?
I just queried ripe.net and found that several ranges we used to use are still allocated to us, but we haven't used them for over 5 years, 8 years in some cases. Some of the ranges had 128 addresses, so for us alone there are a few hundred unsed addresses just sat there (from EasyNet, Virgin, RM Plc).
So I dare say if some time was spent checking unused addresses they'd claw back a few thousand at least. Assuming there isn't a rule somewhere that states they lie unsed for a certain number of years.
Clues are on sale this month. Buy now.
There's a lot of rubbish argument going on in the comments regarding IPv6. Lets discuss some of them:
1) IP addresses are too long.
So was the digit count in the year before 2000. We used '99' instead. We all remember the joy of Y2K (even though in the end nothing happened). The reason the IP address is so mind-numbingly long is so that in another 10 years time you don't all complain about the lack of IP addresses and we have to start down another road to IPv47 or something.
There is more than just IP count thats responsible for the 128 bits length too. If you actually bothered investigating IPv6 (oh wait.. that requires you have sense doesn't it...) you'd see that the bits are logically divided to provide adequate addressing in logical units.
For example, it is accepted that no network segment should be smaller than a /64. This gives you 2^64 IP addresses for your company network, and allows stateless autoconfiguration by munging your MAC address into an IP address. This is good design. It means IPv6 autoconfiguration is easy.
2) Route profileration contaminates the internet.
Again, you haven't been reading. When PROPERLY CONFIGURED these kind of packets should only exist on local internal networks. Backbones, etc. should be statically configured, as you'd expect from a professional level.
3) "We had problems and had to disable IPv6".
No, you had misconfigured software. PHP (even on Windows) handles IPv6 just fine, its more likely your system just wasn't configured correctly. True, I can't speak for ASP. If you have problems because of IPv6, its because of software configuration.
4) Nobody's using it.
Actually, Akamai (one of the internet's biggest content distribution networks) recently registered an IPv6 BGP table entry. Clearly they're taking IPv6 seriously.
5) Why bother? There's plenty of IPv4 space.
No, there isn't. It runs out next year by most estimates.
6) Why don't we just reclaim unused space?
Firstly, how do you plan to do this? Legal enforcement? You'll be in courts for years and not see a single IP come back. And why should organisations give them back? They paid good money for them, they have a right to keep them in "storage" until needed. You have no right to say to them "Look, you're not using and we've run out. We can't be bothered to install the next generation IP, so we're nicking you address."
7) IPv6 sucks. <insert reasons here>
I can't refute any claim of any particular feature or the protocol on a whole "sucking". However, I would ask a question. Where's your paper on an alternative protocol? Oh wait, you haven't got one. So shut up. Until you can suggest a better idea that the world will go for, you can't talk about anything.
8) There is no chicken and egg situation; IPv6 is just not wanted.
Wrong again. IPv6 hardware requires investment. Investment requires being able to see a return. Where's the return if no ISP customers use IPv6 ?
Where's the return if router manufacturers sell to customers who's ISP doesn't use IPv6 ?
One chicken and egg scenario. Fortunately, this has been mitigated a little lately by tunnel brokers that provide IPv6 connectivity over an IPv4 link. This helps get it into use, but not everyone can have an IPv4 address as an endpoint.
By the way, I use both IPv4 and v6 at home and have NO TROUBLE WHATSOEVER. Maybe thats because I know what I'm doing, but for me it just works. Firefox looks up host details for a website. Sees an IPv6 address. Sees I have a public IPv6 address. It makes the connection. No AAAA record? It uses IPv4 instead. Most IPv6-enabled applications work in the same way. Again, if you're having trouble ITS NOT IPV6S FAULT!
Oh, and something else that other people might want to know, if you get weird DNS issues or timeouts when you enable IPv6, thats because your router is programmed by monkeys. This is a well known issue where some routers mishandle the AAAA records for DNS and return "nonexistent domain" instead of passing the records on properly. The solution? Get a proper router or run your own DNS server. Its not hard. You can get simple free caching DNS servers for Windows that will sort this one out.
So, can we stop spreading FUD, myths and Unbelievable Bullshit(tm) about IPv6 ? You'll only slow down the take up of an otherwise perfectly acceptable protocol. And when we do run out of addresses, it'll be all of you going "oh shit! we should have done something about this!" as find bits of the internet are accessible to your IPv4 only connection.
-- Richard
I have three colocated (virtual) servers (different companies and data centres) and a home ADSL connection. My ISP was quite happy to enable native IPv6 on request, as was one hosting provider; a second server is tunnelled, since that provider's upstream provider offers free tunnels from that data centre, one hop away.
IPv6 isn't hard to get or use - the tough bit is getting a working IPv6 only setup which can access IPv4-only resources reliably. A dual-stack setup is easy enough, but does nothing to conserve IPv4 addresses!
Perhaps universities, big companies etc could switch to NATted IPv4 with routeable IPv6; somehow, though, I suspect IPv4 will keep going as it is for quite a few years. The /8 top level blocks will run out eventually, then the regional registries will get squeezed, and finally organisations will start feeling a push to make changes - but not until then. As long as there are still IPv4 addresses available, why bother?
With NAT, having "only" 4 billion addresses for whatever subset of the 6 billion people actually have Internet connections doesn't seem that bad.
Why on Earth would we need new addresses anyway? They'll only get snapped up by Russians, Nigerians and Bosnians so they can run yet more spambomb farms, XCSS attack batteries and phishing barrages. Why spend all that effort on "proper" confuguration of routers if 99% of what they route is pernicious, anti-personnel crap?
The *problem* with the internet isn't that it's too small. It's that we have no way of identifying and disposing of the sewage BEFORE it has clogged the pipes we need for legitimate pron viewing, "e-commerce" (a web 1.0 term for buying bondage gear over the net) or video-on-demand (a web 1.5 term for viewing pay-per-view pron movies over the web).
"A million addresses per person"? I thought that the New World Order was all about thinking smarter, not just moving the problem horizon until we can't imagine seeing it again in our lifetimes. There's no point in my having a million addresses if every one of them is a constant torrent of Pen1z P1llz ads or begging letters from the Nigerian Finance Minister. Nor am I particularly interested in having a million times the places gits can stash the stolen copies of my credit card information.
"It's broke, but no-one will know that if we make it hucking fuge"?
This sounds like Hawkwind thinking to me; if the instruments are out of tune, play louder.
How many ????
3 Billion ????
That's NOWHERE near enough addresses when all those 'developing countries' spend the G20 Billions.
Apparently, there are 6 Billion peeps in the world NOW !!!!!.
What about their intelligent fridges etc. ?????
I'm worried XP might need to be rebooted after enabling this ipv6 thing.
/because if linksys (as my router maker) and my ISP are not totally incompetent that is all...
IPv6 and Security?
I have recently setup IPv6 in our testlab (including multiple subnets and all the routing) and did the IPv6 compliance testing for an upcoming release of a product.
IPv6 is not particularly hard to setup, but it doesn't improve security in any way.
It happily works with normal unsigned DNS, and it doesn't enhance the security for applications either. It's simply another addressing scheme and people need to stop peddling the lie that IPv6 will magically make the internet more safe or secure.
My ISP's actually does support IPv6, but only via tunnels (as most DSL router can't handle it), but I don't want tunnels bypassing my perimeter firewall so I've not bothered with it (that and the fact I don't need / want internet routable addresses for every node in my home network - NAT is another layer of security as far as I'm concerned).
It's also inaccurate to say that IPv4 numbers are close to running out. The truth is that there are a lot of organizations out there sitting on allocations that they don't need which they refuse to return to the pool (like IBM with it's 9.x.x.x/8 class A allocation that it uses internally).
@LaeMi Qian
"our new test-infrastructure is running on 10.x.x.x behind a NAT."
That works well for quite a while... putting your entire network on a 10.x.x.x network. Until one day you find that a data sharing agreement with a customer, supplier, or new business partner (due to a company merger) needs to share some data, and you have to provide some mutual network access. "No problem", you think, "I'll just set up a VLAN, and we're good to go!" Until you discover that they too are running on 10.x.x.x. D'oh!
Now you have to run ANOTHER layer of NAT to connect the two networks. Ok, if it only happens one time, that's not too terrible (I've had it happen several times, myself, thanks to a merger and a couple of customer requests). Of course, even if it's just one extra NAT step, when you go to your new partner facility and try to remember the IP of your machine... oops, I'm on this side of the network now, what's my new NATed address?
How about internal DNS? Oops, now I need to convince the DNS admins to set up an oddball scope, or some specialized servers. That stinks!
Corporate web proxy: got to bug another group for special rules.
Boffin icon, because I've had to fight those battles before...
Tin Foil Hat angle
So, the IPv4's are running out?
Can someone please tell me how I can stockpile them in my basement next to all the beans and ammo? I think they could be useful as currency once the global monetary system collapses.
OSI Returns
Back in the day the larger OSI address space was forestalled by the "IP Bigots" with the use of NAT. This was a cludge which is now showing its age. IPv6 borrows heavily from OSI and it will work. Give it up and do some reading. Network protocols prior to TCP/IP had much smaller address spaces and had to resort to a number of subterfuges to allow national and international networks. The world has not always been IPv4. The Internet must continue to evolve. And I would not at all be surprised if IPv6 is modified as it continues to be deployed.
IPv6 and security
You're right, IPv6 doesn't improve security. It does, however, make it easier for people to create better security. The security extensions in IPv4 are all optional - you can't rely on the stacks at both ends being able to support signed or encrypted packets, so you may need to install additional software before it will work.
With IPv6 it's all built in and support for encryption, authentication etc is mandatory. Whether or not people will choose to take advantage of this, is another matter.
BTW it's a bit unfair to IBM (I can't believe I just wrote that!) and others in a similar position to claim they're 'sitting' on Class A addresses. As you point out, they're using them internally (quite legitimately). I'm sure if someone was prepared to reimburse them for the costs of moving to 10.0.0.0/8, they'd be prepared to consider doing so. Anyone who's undertaken a transition from public to private IP addresses will know the cost of doing so on a large network is far from trivial.
Home Routers?
How about encouraging all the router manufacturers to include code to handle IPv4 on the LAN and IPv6 on the WAN side of their routers? Do it in a simple-enough manner that it's not hard for users to carry on as before with a default local 192.168.0.0 subnet while presenting IPv6 to the outside world, and things could carry on for some time. More advanced users could configure the router to allow either a mix of v4 and v6 or choose to go completely v6.
As far as I know, Linux can do all of this anyway, and as most routers seem to run some version of Linux, they should be adaptable. OK, it might break the flash/RAM limits, but memory is getting ever cheaper/larger.
Compromise solution?
Can't we agree to use IPv5?
@Francis Fish:
Windows Vista, too. Where I work a lot of departments disable IPv6 on their Vista machines because network access is so slow with it enabled. Lots of delays and timeouts.
I once saw a comment that IPv6 attempts to solve the problems of 1995 today. It's sort of true. Somewhere along the line everyone realized that connecting every printer, PC, and refrigerator directly to the Internet is a bad idea from a security standpoint. Once you have a firewall in place, NAT is a trivial thing to add, and IP space exhaustion becomes a lot less scary.
IPv6 not a reliable protocol
IPv6 not a reliable protocol, we are working on it and have found many drawback on it.
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First photo in the database
airex 2010 8th international civil aviation and airports exhibition
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subset: commoncrawl


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Written by Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy Friday, 01 October 2010 00:00
I am a proponent of legislation that encourages manufacturing in the United States. I firmly believe that a robust domestic manufacturing agenda, not only yields durable, high-quality products, but also facilitates economic growth by creating greater demand for skilled high-wage jobs. Our nation is beginning to forge an economic recovery, but difficult circumstances persist and more must be done to stimulate growth and recovery. With that said, I am determined to continue to promote and pass legislation that creates American jobs and am a supporter of Congress' 'Make It in America' agenda.
Most recently, I was pleased to support the passage in the House of Representatives of three bills: H.R. 2039, the Congressional Made in America Promise Act, H.R. 2853, the All-American Flag Act, and H.R. 3116, the Berry Amendment Extension Act. Each, if signed into law, will do much to spur American economic growth. The federal government should set an example for the rest of the nation by purchasing quality American goods. These bills achieve just that. The Made in America Promise Act requires Congress to buy goods and services made by American workers. Similarly, the All-American Flag Act stipulates that the federal government only buy American-made national flags. Furthermore, the Berry Amendment Extension Act builds upon a six decade long history of the federal government, now adding the Homeland Security Department in addition to the Department of Defense and Coast Guard that are already required to only purchase American-produced textile products.
Common sense legislation like the 'Make It in America' bills ensure that we, as a nation, work to aid ailing sectors of our workforce and continue to bolster those that continue to perform soundly. The passage of these three bills compliments a larger effort that has already done much to help bolster our domestic workforce. I will continue to work to pass legislation that boosts both the short-and long-term growth of the national economy.


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text: ERIKA CAVALLINI Special Gallery The gallery of the shooting by Erika Cavallini. The designer has been also the creator of the Fall 2014 Advertising Campaign GET LOST IN DAEDALUS Fall Winter 2014-15 Runway Video FOLLOW SEMICOUTURE ON WINTER ISSUE The winter fashion input on Miss Japan, December 2013 A TRIBUTE TO DEBORAH TURBEVILLEThe special Gallery The selected pictures by the six photographer that performed at the event. DO NOT MISS Lookbook FW 2014-15


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The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority has filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission a notice of its proposal to adopt a new gift and entertainment rule. The new regulation FINRA Rule 3220 (influencing or rewarding employees of others)—will replace the old NASD Rule 3060 and the New York Stock Exchange Rule 350, as FINRA consolidates its rulebook in the aftermath of the merger between NASD and NYSE's regulatory arm. The old rules prohibit broker-dealers from giving gifts or ...
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Seriously, I think McElory is better than all of them and should really be the #2 qb on the depth chart over God-boy.
Every NFL analyst I've heard speaks highly of him. Gruden really sang his praises. He's a winner. Word is that arm strength improved this year.
However here was an out he threw last night that I could not help being reminded by Pennington ... Had hat been a first string defense .... Probably a pick.
Kellen Moore was something like 50-3 at Boise State. Didn't get drafted and won't become a star in the NFL for the same reason McElroy wont become a star for the Jets.
Casey Keenum passed for 5,000 yards three times.
While Moxy and heart is important, NFL QB's need a basic amount of size, arm strenght, and accuracy.
McElroy is barely big enough, has good accuracy, but lacks enough arm strenght to thrive in the NFL.
Im not comparing their ability or arm strength, and there are definitely reasons mcelroy could struggle in the NFL, but I really dont think size is one of them.
i think the real controversy is if sanchez goes down and tebow stinks, and they experiment with mcelroy and he does well. he definitely understands how to play the position.
Tebow just cant do enough for an offense at this point and mcelroy seems like he can be a servicable game manager....
If this team was actually built to run the ball with authority, McElroy very well could be the best guy on the roster for the starting job. He's a game manager, won't make mental mistakes and will take what the defense gives + understands how to play qb better than anyone else on the roster.
This is what the Jets are trying make Mark Sanchez into, a role he's not good at.
He needs to attack defenses, not sit back and be a game manager.
With that approach, defenses will stack the line and he'll turn the ball over too much and not make enough big plays.
I think with Mark, you gotta unleash him and take the good with the bad.
As it stands, the Jets can't run the ball, so McElroy would have a lot of problems...
I do like him though, I remember Sports Science did a segment that tested him on his reaction time: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6355292
Really cool.
Brady was a string bean when he came out. He was 6'4" 200lbs or something like that. He put on 25-30lbs of muscle and his arm strength improved. McElroy is already at a pretty good weight for a guy his size.
Cutler, Romo, Sanchez, and McElroy are all about the same size (6'2" 225-230lbs). Cutler's arm is way stronger than Romo's and Sanchez's whose arms are much stronger than McElroy. Michael Vick is 6'0" 210lbs, and he might have a stronger arm than any of them. Some guys just have the "golden arm."
In terms of Automatic Failures at the QB position:
1) No Heart
2) No Brains
3) Not good "enough" accuracy
4) Not good "enough" arm strenght - Quick release and velocity on the throw.
McElroy clearly has plenty of heart and brains. His accuracy is pretty good (Probably better than Sanchize's).
BUT - a QB who cannot make "ALL" the throws cannot make it long term in the NFL. Montana never had Elway's cannon, but could make all the throws. Brady doesn't have Cutler's cannon, but makes all the throws. Although they didn't have strong arms, Montana and Brady have "good enough" arms and great accuracy.
Unfortunately, McElroy doesn't have enough arm. The fact that he is a "plus" player at the other 3 factors cannot cover that up.
Last edited by Digetydog; 08-31-2012 at 11:52 AM.


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Advanced Display Options for Embedded Systems: Product BriefIntel® Embedded Media and Graphics Driver v1.14 for Embedded Intel® ArchitectureProduct OverviewThe Intel® Embedded Media and Graphics Driver (Intel® EMGD), based on a new optimized architecture, specifically addresses the needs of embedded platform developers by offering a long-life production commitment (up to seven years for new devices).It also enables new graphics features that support non-traditional yet growing computing segments such as netbooks, tablets, slates, and consumer handheld gadgets. This driver is enhanced over previous embedded graphics drivers from Intel by providing additional Linux* features to support In-Vehicle Infotainment (IVI) usage models; updates to support Android* 2.3 (Gingerbread) include video encode and texture streaming capability.The Intel® EMGD v1.14 is ideal for systems based on the new Intel® Atom™ processor E6xx series, which integrates the processor core, graphics and video encode/decode, plus memory and display controllers into one package. It is also validated for platforms based on the Intel® Atom™ processor Z5xx series with the Intel® System Controller Hub US15W, US15WP, and US15WPT.Read the full Advanced Display Options for Embedded Systems Product Brief.
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A week in Burgundy... any suggestions?
- Gman Nov 15, 2009 10:00 AM
Will be spending a week in Burgundy in Decembre, principally between Dijon and Lyon... would much appreciate any restaurant, market, or foodie destination suggestions. Thanks
Highly recommend our wine guide, Mary Kirk. She is a dual US and French citizen and speaks flawlessly in both languages, has an undergraduate degree from US, but then a somellier degree from France. She organizes as much or as little as you would like, but the focus is wine. Usually three tastings a day and she can arrange lunch in a fine restaurant, unless you'd rather be spontaneous. She will even pick you up from your Paris hotel, drive you to Burgundy, and drop you back off at your hotel at the end of the day. We really learned so much and enjoyed the time we spent as a result of her expertise and knowledge without loosing any time actually looking for these places. You can reach her at email@example.com. Her rates are really reasonable and you certainly get your money's worth.
If you would rather go it alone, highly recommend Musee des Vins in Beaune, where for a flat fee they let you into a cellar with a tasting cup. There are about 25 wines to sample from the region. They are placed on barrels as regular intervals, with all of the wine cellar vaults on either side. Very cool. Remember to spit at first, because the better stuff is at the end in a converted rectory. Hard to spit so much good wine, so we left feeling really mellow and were only too glad to hang out in Beaune for the rest of the day.
re: Delucacheesemonger
Do you know the name of the market you refer to or where it is... it seems there are at least 7 marche in Dijon. Merci.
re: souphie
Got it. Thanks Souphie. Do you know....are all covered markets referred to as Les Halles, as this one is? I see now there is a building in Beaune referred to this way as well... I was only familiar with Paris' historic market..
From North to South:
Ma Cusine in Beaune. An informal restaurant/bistro with good food, lots of passion, and a huge wine list.
Lameloise in Chagny. Outstanding and consistent three star Michelin restaurant with an extensive wine list, and prices at the very bottom of the range of restaurants at this level.
Aux Terrasses and Restaurant Greuze in Tournus. Both different and both excellent, with value for money, good service, and good wine lists. Both have one star in Michelin.
re: rswatkins
Thanks especially for this... I would follow Johnny Apple anywhere and am just now savoring the new collection of his food essays just published!
re: rswatkins
I visited the Maconnais frequently over the past couple of years. I bought a lot of Fleurie from Coudert a few months ago. I also can recommend Andre Besson in Solutre, possibly the best 6 euro white on the planet, and also Renaud. Great places to taste. Just very mellow people, happy to chat and deguster. These producers have been exporting all over the world for decades and are set up for tasting drop ins, but most seem surprised when Americans show up.
re: Busk
Thanks - Going to try and muster up our courage for some degustation...my only two previous experiences were not fabuleux (very grumpy anti-american guy in St. Emillion, and a very strange..... caretaker(??) in Gevery Cambertin at the Chateau.) but we'll have more time this time around, for starts, and can scope out a few places before taking the plunge.
re: Gman
Nah, none of the guys above are like that. They don't speak much English, but they are just regular guys making and selling some nice wines. Not much attitude in Southern Burgundy. Also, if these places didn't want tourists showing up, tasting and buying wine, they wouldn't put up a sign with an arrow inviting them.
I just opened a 2006 Renaud Pouilly-Fuisse. It's an excellent example of this wine. I think I paid 11 euro for the bottle.
We spent this past April meandering through the back roads of Burgundy and can recommend several restaurants scattered about the region. In Auxerre we enjoyed La Salamandre and Le Jardin Gourmand. Just below Avallon the Moulin des Ruats serves traditional cuisine in a beautiful setting on the Cousin river. Le Chambolle in Chambolle-Musigny is another good little husband/wife place with a fine, affordable wine list. La Cabotte in the pedestrian area of Nuits St. George was so good that we went 3 times; it has a young chef who does some modern things with traditional cuisine. A similar, even more casual spot that we kept returning to was Ma Cuisine in Beaune which is so well known that reservations are strongly recommended...no frou-frou, just excellent product perfectly cooked. For something different you might try the Michelin starred Le Charlemagne in Pernand-Vergelesses. It features a young French chef with a Japanese wife in a very modern setting with quirky combinations and presentations. We enjoyed it but it may be a little too off the wall for some. More traditional and just south of Beaune is another Michelin star, the Hostellerie de Levernois. If you get over to Autun don't miss the tiny, casual Le Chapitre right behind the cathedral. There are dozens more but most of them have been described on this forum before so I tried to stick to the less mentioned, other than Ma Cuisine which has become known by all but maintains its personna..
re: Laidback
Gman, CJT, Laidback and Ken-
I was looking through my notes - I take back what I had written below on not eating out in a restaurant while in Burgundy. Three weeks of living out of a suitcase and visiting a ton of family - fabulous trip, but lots to take in. We had a really great lunch in Beaune at Ma Cuisine. The staff was unbelievably warm and easy going. The food was delish, with a wine list to match. I had amazing skate and escargot traditional. My husband had the Andouillette AAAAA (Association Amicale des Amateurs d'Andouillette Authentiquessausage). I know... I had to find out what the AAAAA meant. Ken and Laidback were right - Add this one to your list while in Burgundy.
re: ChristineBerenger
Thanks - looks like we'll be renting a gite just outside of Beaune and am eager to try Ma Cuisine... not sure I'm up for the andouillette, though I am curious... what did your husband have to say about it? I think what would be divoon would be a place that served tapas sized dishes of French food, so you could try something and bail without too much regret. I find I face all the unknowns on a French menu and want to be adventurous but hate to waste the opportunity if it turns out I don't, in fact, like rognons de veau...
re: Gman
I am right there with you on that sort of meat. I think my limit ends but includes wild boar saucisson (huge fan - we even tracked down an amazing place in NY - which is where we live - that has the real deal). Maybe I am limited because I'm 'merican? My husband is French and he eats all that kind of stuff. He has become quite the connoisseur and he LOVED the Andouillette. We really enjoyed the warmth of Ma Cuisine - and it was clear that this is where the locals eat.
re: ChristineBerenger
Many offal (variety) meats require an introduction, some consideration, another experience, maybe even more consideration. In other words, they are most often acquired tastes. I had my doubts originally but have found that they have a strange beckoning nature, like sea sirens or mermaids! Know also that they are most often served with a strong accent sauce, wine or mustard or both. I've been known to have andouillette 5 or more times in one week, only slightly less so rognons . Liver in France is a totally different entity than American. First, it is often cut thick and served rosy, the only way to go. Overcooked liver is why we fault our grandparent's product. Sweetbreads, on the other hand, are so luscious that you will probably be a convert after your first taste.
I'd suggest you just take the plunge. After all, as they say, it's only dinner! Enjoy.
re: mangeur
Merci bien Mangeur. Yep - I've already gone over to the dark side on the foie gras.... and I love it, especially since some of our friends in France have generously shared foie gras made from their homes in the SW with me. I actually served it for Christmas last year with a Sauternes gelée. OMG - amazing... I just can't go to the dark side on all offal quite yet. I was a true vegetarian for a year, but I missed bacon too much. Look at me now.
I highly recommend Le Montrachet in Puligny-Montrachet, both for its restaurant and as a nice, quiet central place to stay.
As usual it is left to me to recommend some low-end peasanty good eats, as all the chow-sophisticates have all the expertise on all the chichi places... :-)
Ferme des Perriaux, in the old gare (train station) of pretty St Fargeau. Better book ahead tel (+33)3 8674 1645. Since the restaurant is a side-business of a real farm, - which means all the ingredients are farm-fresh, - it may not be open for December, and if it is open, it is very popular with the locals.
Btw the farm itself is in nearby Champignelles and has a couple of very nice b&b rooms.
re: Parigi
As usual, you have come up with a treasure. I was not aware of the gare restaurant, but their chambre d'hote with table d'hote is exceptional. Thanks for the additional address.
re: mangeur
Not sure if it is open in winter, but if you go to Saint Fargeau, make the short trip to visit the Guédelon building site. It is a medieval castle being built by hand using medieval tools and methods (they cut their own wood from the forest, make their own cement, cut all the stone, etc.). It was started within the past 10 years or so and will not be completed for another 10-12 years. Well worth a visit. However, the only dining there is an outdoor place serving basic food for visitors. Go to the Guédelon website for more info and to see what it is all about - you will find out if they are open in winter.
Hi there Gman.
My sister-in-law lives right outside of Lyon. Their favorite restaurant in Lyon is:
La Cantine des Sales Gosses
5 rue de la Martiniére
69001 Lyon 04 78 27 65 81
The owner loves to change it up and even has a surprise menu (meaning - chef's choice, you'd just need to inform the restaurant of any food allergies). They also have an impressive wine selection. For what you get - both food and wine - it's not a bad deal. My absolute favorite thing that we had was a glacé made out of cep mushrooms and then a nother made out of foie gras. Don't knock it until you try it. My mouth is watering as I type about it.
For wine, if you want a treat and are near Lyon with a little extra time, the Northern Rhône is not far away and something to seriously consider. I assume since you have Burgundy on your list, wine is on the agenda for your holidays. I actually just did a 5 part series on my website on the Northern Rhône Valley - seriously delicious and amazing wines:
We also visited Burgundy about a month or so ago. I am fortunate in that we have a ton of family there who wanted to wine and dine us. I don't have any restaurant recommendations for you since we visited family. However - if you are a mustard fan, be certain to stop by some of the mustard shops in Dijon. This is a must. We are mustard freaks. You will get mustards there that you cannot get in the U.S. I assume that you are going to Burgundy to do some wine tasting too. I am in the middle of doing a series on Burgundian wines:
Overall, in Burgundy, it looked like Beaune had quite a few adorable places to dine. Have a blast. You will have an amazing gastronomic experience in both places!
Chowhoundies Rule!
Thanks everyone and keep 'em comin'. Haven't quite settled on where we're going to perch but plan to get around quite a bit - we'll have 8 or 9 days... I promise a full report from the road! Christine I'm with you on the mustard freak front, and always come home with tubes & tubs of it as well as a few small glasses of Amora!
If you make it to the Cote Chalonnaise south of Beaune, in Givry you will find a very nice bistro called La Billebaude. It was recommended to us by several of the wineries we visited and it was even better than "advertised". We had escargots and steaks from the local raised white charolais. But the best dish was the oeufs en meurette, one of the tastiest most comforting dishes I have ever had.
re: Pammel
Thanks - j'adore oeuf en meurette!
Second the recommendation for Le Charlemagne in Pernand-Vergelesses. I would save it toward the end of the trip, when you're tired of the traditional Burgundian menus. The food is very innovative and playful, but delicious! (We had lunch recently on a Thursday and there was only one other table occupied for part of the lunch time. However, lunch will take at least a couple of hours for the full experience.)
(Lots of restaurants say they are modern, but they are still working within the context of local tradition -- maybe escargot in a cast-iron pot with a slightly different sauce, or a non-standard rendition of oeufs meurette -- but still not as off-the-map inventive as in many US restaurants.)
That said, my husband discovered two things on the traditional menus that he really liked... the afore-mentioned oeufs meurette (poached egg in a red wine sauce, although each restaurant had its own variation) and fromage blanc (a sweet-sour dessert of fresh cheese and sweet cream and sugar).
First of all, many thanks to all the Houndies that posted earlier. It was extremely helpful. That said, we ran into two problems trying to take many of your suggestions: the dreaded congeles annuals (even though it was only mid-December, lots of places were closed); and snow… which kept us from venturing far a field, and sometimes venturing… AT ALL. We were staying in a cottage in the Haute Cotes de Nuits… once the snow arrived, any car travel became dicey, at least at evening. Only one road was ever plowed or sanded, and not often. We ended up eating in a punishing 4 nights. Fortunately, the markets provided terrific meals at home. Some highlights below: In general I only list the food I ate, or in some cases, stole a taste of, or out and out plate swapped at the half-way point. After a spell this seemed the most practical thing to do to try the most dishes… In general, unless otherwise stated, meal prices shown included entrée, plat and dessert and coffee.
Hostellerie des Clos, in Chablis
Started with Gougeres and a few other amuses, including a Foie Gras Crème brûllée (Nice place, nice fireplace, cozy, found some of the food kind of odd… but…not bad. I had a chilled (?) Brandade and artichokes, followed by a pan seared Dorade, a plateau de Fromage and a tart tatin. 92€ dinner for two, 26€ bottle of Chablis. Lots of seeming, wine-biz gents dinning solo.
Le Marronnier, in Buffon, en face de Canal du Bourgogne
Stopped here on our way south to Fontenay because there was a good crowd of vehicles out front, including a few Orange tele-com trucks. Again, seemed like a table full of wine-biz guys on the road had the same idea. No one else seemed like they were there for the first time. Had filet de Harengs aux pommes de terre a l'huile, Couronne de Sole avec Sauce Crustacee and plateau de Fromage. 28€ lunch for two, 12€ demi of Petite Chablis.
Loiseau des Vignes, 31 rue Maufoux, Beaune
It was late, and we were spending the night next door at Hotel Le Cep so we popped in without a reservation. Plenty of room to spare on a Wednesday in December. Had Poitiron soup amuse, Nuit St Jacques in a veloute, Joue de Veau grand mere et pomme purée. Ended with a sort of apple napoleon with apple chips and basil ice cream. The schtick at this place is supposed to be all wine by the glass only, and very good ones at that. But after hesitation on my part for round two (do we really want to keep choosing a wine for each course? Maybe…) the waiter offered a traditional wine list of bottles. Overall I found the place a bit fussy and stuffy for my taste, and not all that memorable, except the joue de veau, which was delicious. 118€ Dinner for two, 49€ for a bottle of St Aubin, 9-25€ for individual glasses of wine.
La Cabotte, Nuits-Saint-Georges, on the pedestrianized Grand Rue. Thanks Laidback for this suggestion. We loved it, and went twice. Had a Coronet avec frommage amuse, then a marvelous champignons veloute amuse. Started with Coccotte (these little cocottes now appear to be everywhere… were they always?) of escargot, morels, chataignes, et vin jaune. I sampled Bman's Morteau Roti et crème de chataigne. We both had filet de Cannette, eclats de dragees et ecrasee de pommes de terre. The Jordan almonds on top of the duck were weird but delicious, and the sugar coating melted as you made your way through the perfectly cooked duck. Nice cheese plate followed with Brillat Savarin, Salers, cindered Chevre in a ring, and Epoisses. A little chocolate pot de crème accompanied the coffee. A real journey for the tastebuds. Not the warmest host, but serious and delicious food and overall a lovely experience. 56 € lunch for two, 29 € bottle of Hautes-Cotes de Nuits rouge.
Ma Cuisine, in Beaune. LOVED this place. The chef/owner was funny, warm and charming, and the food was incredibly good. Had pate de campagne, Veau roti (more like a braise) and finished with Epoisse – which was a point et parfait. 49€ lunch for two
33€ bottle of Champy Pernand Vergelesses blanc. We have happily gone back several times. The next time we tried we found they were closed for a month. Ordinarily only open M-F, closed Wed.
Made 3 of the 4 meals at home in the snow from a great Poulet Fermier Rotisserie from the Marche at Nuit-Saint-Georges. Had the pomme de terre from down below, natch. Salad of mâche et bettrave (love that you can buy pre-roasted beets, seemingly anywhere…) and followed by a cheese course of Vieux Comte et Brillat Savarin.
Restaurant L'Industrie, close to Les Halles, Dijon. Your basic local café, but cheap, lively and good. Had Oeuf mimosa au thon, and Steak Frites and Tarte aux poire. On our way out the owner offered us a glass of his homemade…. Wine? Marc? Vielle Prune???? Not sure, but a nice and festive gesture as we got closer to Christmas. 22€ lunch for two, 10€ pichet de vin rouge.
La Cabotte, Nuits-Saint-Georges… encore
Cornette du fromage et Foam de champignon encore. Then a Croustilliant de pied de Cochon topped by Rougie in a sauce moules. Next a Poele Noix St. Jacques et Boudin Noir et cube de pomme de terre. Then the Cheese foursome and the single best dessert in 25 days in France: Molleaux du caramel burre sale. I've emailed and begged for the recipe. If you've got contacts, this recipe could be your ticket to becoming my new best friend. We talked about it for days. 77€ dinner (1 menu 28€, 1 menu 49€), 33€ bottle of Hautes Cotes de Nuits rouge.
Hotel Chevreuil, in Meursault. Nothing stellar, nothing bad (well, maybe one of the cheeses seemed on the border….) Had Oeufs en Meurette, Coq au Vin blanc, cheese plate but the real discovery was the wine. Loved it and had a hard time tracking it down. 46€ lunch for two, 25€ bottle of Clos du Chateau Bourgogne Chardonnay, Chateau de Meursault.
Chez Guy in Gevrey-Chambertin. Souphie, I think I read a post elsewhere where you recommended this one. Also loved it. Funnily, ran into the gang from La Cabotte, seemingly dejeuning with the chef/owners of Chez Guy. Had Jambon Perseille, Joue de Boeuf 12-heures Pinot Noir on a bed of carrots (amazingly good – they sell it, along with a few other signature dishes for take away. We should have bought some…) and a Dome de creme broulee (kinda stiff, fatty and weird) and glace caramel. 62€ lunch for two, and when in Rome… sprang for a bottle (at 60€, one of the least expensive on the menu) of Gevrey-Chambertin, 2005 Vielle Vignes Naigeon.
Cafe La Fountain, in Autun. We were hoping to hit La Chapitre as Laidback recommended, but it was congele-d. Potage legumes, Estofade Pintade a la Bougignon, Tarte tatin, 40€ lunch for two, 18 demi of Hautes Cotes de Nuits.
La Gourmandin, Beaune
Very popular spot. We hadn't reserved so were sent to Siberia upstairs. Terrine du magret en croute, Faux filet Epoisses, Fromage, Tart au pommes. 48€ Dinner for two, 32€ Bottle of Chorey les Beaune rouge.
Chez Jeannette, Fixin
Found this place just wandering around the Cote d'Or. Had Oeuf en Meurette, Crepunette de vollaille en chous avec petite legumes (stuffed cabbage with ground chicken… kind of tasty) Mouse de cassis avec sable, grand cart de fromage and very nice Mignardises with coffee. 50€ Lunch for two, 29 € bottle of Fixin, Les Herbues, Maison Michel DEFRANCE. Liked this wine so much we went down the street, found the cave, and had a very pleasant degustation with two other gents from the restaurant that happened to have had the same idea just before us. We bought a case… we did still have several weeks ahead of us and lots of entertaining plans.
La Ciboulette, Beaune. Just inside the Porte St. Nicholas. Had Terrine de Haddock et Lentil, Filet de Boeuf au truffe, Gratin Dauphinois, perfect mini primeurs, Fromage
and pomme, sable et glace de vanilla. Lively, fun, and friendly. Reservations necessary.
75 € Dinner for two, 40 € Faiveley Mercurey… I think…. One of the few places I didn't keep the receipt.
Other good suggestions folks made:
http://www.lafermedesperriaux.com/ was closed for the season- just missed it by a day!
Lameloise in Chagny: ditto, though once I got a glimpse of the menu I was sort of glad. Tres Cher. Charlemagne was open but also was a bit outside our price range, and all the towns off the N74 were frequently impassable in the snow….
Snow also kept us from Macon and Lyon. Marches at Beaune, Nuits-Saint-Georges, and Dijon were all terrific, and twice a week, and so jolly as we got closer to Christmas. In addition to the great chicken that kept giving, we also had a terrific leek tart, good celerie remoulade, and great fruit and vegetables. Someone should give Marcel Sabatier, the butcher appearing at all the markets above, his own TV show. He and his wife were delightful, funny, and doled out bites of sausage to youngsters on line with their folks who could not have been happier.
Did also do the tasting that VMK suggested, though it was at Patriarche, not the Musee du Vin, which was interesting but had no degusting. Heartflet thanks again for all your guidance. Now on to the Paris notes….
re: Gman
Great review. Am sooo going to steal all the info.
Btw, you made a mistake in French that turns out to be brilliant:
"the dreaded congeles annuals (even though it was only mid-December, lots of places were closed); and snow"
You meant "congés annuels", but your Freudian motor grabbed a hold of your (which side is the language side again?) brain and made you say "congelés" which means "frozen". Too apt !
Hope you don't mind my picking on you. Am just marveling at how linguistic mistakes often have an eloquence all their own.
Don't post your wine reviews on the other forum; post them here! We are sooo deserving.
re: Parigi
That's funny, and this year quite fitting!! It probably also stemmed from my declining eyesight, standing in front of some closed boite witha dissapointed and hungry look on my face.... I think it's a mistake that got locked in a while ago but now at least i can correct it in proper company....
Parigi and June, was hoping we would do more tasting but the snow really quashed that goal. Other than the daily bottles we had with lunch and dinner, we only degusted at Fixin, and at Patriarche. However, we stayed pretty faithful to Burgundy in the ensuing weeks in Paris as well, and now, having spent the time there and enjoying them with meals and elsewhere, I feel like I have a much stronger grasp of (at least) the lesser Cote d'Ors (think we only tasted one Grand Cru, and that at Patriarche - a very nice Chambolle, I think. For me the memorable wines are the Gevrey mentioned above and the Chateau Meursault Chardonnay, which I'm told by those more knowledgeable, shared many qualities of the much pricier Meursault. We actually went to the chateau to try and stock up, but as it was the end of their season, on the brink of their conges... they had none. Only, interestingly, the pricier bottles up the wine chain...... hmmmm. Finally hunted some down in the Patriarche wine mall/gift shop on the Place Carnot in Beaune. Had stood outside that place at least 4 other times and never went in and never realized how vast it was. The other star was the PV from Champy, which we hunted down a half-case on a quiet street in Beaune at the Champy headquarters after having it with lunch at Ma Cuisine. The owner(?) there was a delight, and threw in a bottle of his favorite red PV that they offered. Also gave us a restaurant recommendation when we told him we were Paris bound. Didn't make it to Le Fumoir near the Louvre but will try it next year, I hope.
Gman: what a great review of your trip! would love to hear what wineries you visited -- or did you? You could post that on the Wine forum. ;)
Since I only have, basically, one recommendation, let me add to this fairly extensive thread:
Having originally made reservations at Moulin des Templiers--an old favorite from 15 yeas before, situated in the romantic Vallee de Coussins just outside of Avallon on the way to Vezelay, we were disappointed to learn when we arrived that the boiler had exploded and we could not be accommodated. The owner, however, thoughtfully made arrangements for us to spend our two nights in the Hotel les Fleurs, just above the valley in Pontaubert. Fortunate choice, since the two dinners we had there were superb. Among the memorable dishes on this typically Burgundian menu, altho one with an emphasis on fish, were the poulet fermier in a rich wine -mushroom-carmelized-onion sauce--accompanied by potatoes pureed with vanilla and bourbon--and an excellent bass in a chestnut-cream sauce. The rooms were also pleasant, tho simple, and inexpensive, and altho we'll still return to the moulin out of gratitude and for old-time's sake, Hotel les Fleurs will definitely be on our dinner list.
And thanks to the above poster for the Le Chapitre reco, an excellent spot for a light lunch (dinner at Hotel les Fleurs required light lunches!} after a visit to the cathedral in Autun.


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UPDATE: S. Circle Dr. reopens after crash investigation
Published On: Aug 06 2014 07:54:54 AM CDT
Updated On: Jun 21 2014 08:51:28 AM CDT
Updated On: Jun 21 2014 08:51:28 AM CDT
Colorado Springs Police are investigating a crash in the 500 block of S. Circle Dr.
The crash happened around 9:30 Friday night. Police say a pedestrian was hit by a car. The victim was taken to the hospital. Police don't know the condition of the victim.
Circle was closed from Airport Rd. to Winnipeg Dr. while police investigated the crash. The road reopened around 1:45 a.m. Saturday.
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Contact: Diana Lutz
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Caption: Evolutionary biologist Ken Olsen and Cynthia Vigueira, then a postdoctoral associate in the Olsen lab, examine white clover in the Washington University greenhouse. One morph of this species of clover releases cyanide gas to discourage nibbling.
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function of each gene product by systematic alteration of its concentration in the cell. Rapid, genome-scale systems to silence gene expression are a desirable goal, as is the capacity to target mutations, insertions, and deletions to specific genomic regions and genes via allele replacement. Those techniques will serve as research tools and enable allele replacement in crop improvement.
Natural variation as a source of functional information. The development of quantitative-trait loci (QTLs) and linkage-disequilibrium analytic tools in the model and reference species is vital for assigning function to genes. High-throughput mutant and allele detection systems are also vital, as are reliable systems to detect single-base mismatches. They require appropriate mapping populations, particularly as related to exploitation of natural variation in crop and noncrop species in which the focus is on the identification of valuable alleles, not only the elucidation of gene functions at particular loci. The study of multitrait quantitative genetics is an important way to assign function to some genes (such as those whose mutations result in lethal phenotypes) and to discover proteins that are rate-limiting for important traits. Plant biology's historical exploitation of natural variation as the raw material of breeding provides a wealth of extractable information, as does the availability of wild accessions of many species.


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Hands-on with Windows Phone 7.5 Mango on a Samsung Focus
Summary: Microsoft is showing off a Technical Preview of Windows Phone 7.5 Mango and most of the pieces are up and running successfully, including Facebook chat, linked inboxes, podcast support, multi-tasking, and much more.
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Talking Bleep w/The QCB Show #22!! Funny…Nice
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Tremaine "QCB" Sloan
Tremaine Sloan, aka T- Sloan, aka QCB, has always had a dream of being...Read More
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Annapolis police chief relies on urban myth to argue against pot bills
Annapolis' police chief relied on a satirical news story for the basis of his testimony against legalizing marijuana at the Maryland Capitol Tuesday.
Wednesday - 02/26/2014, 12:27pm EST
Tags: Michael Pristoop, Annapolis Police Department, Annapolis, Md., Maryland General Assembly, pot legalization
Annapolis police: Officers shoot, kill stabbing suspect
Police in Annapolis say an officer shot a man to death after he fatally stabbed a woman.
Tuesday - 09/10/2013, 11:46am EDT
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, November 25, 2014
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|Florida A&M routs Hampton
|Written by Admin
|Saturday, 20 September 2008 11:26
Phillip Sylvester rushed for 132 yards and a touchdown for the Rattlers (2-1, 1-1 Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference).
M jumped out to a 17-0 lead in the first quarter when Joseph Wims returned a fumble off a snap for a 65-yard touchdown. Quier Hall followed with a 67-yard interception for a score.
Adrian Smith added a score on the first play of the second quarter when he caught a 43-yard touchdown from Battle. Kevin Elliott, who five catches for 75 yards, caught a 2-yard touchdown from alternate quarterback Curtis Pulley to put the Rattlers ahead 48-0 in the third.
Howard's Floyd Haigler completed 30-of-47 passes for 306 yards, two touchdowns and three interceptions for the Bison (0-3, 0-2).


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Prep Time:
Cook Time:
10 mins
25 mins
Don't you just love one-pot meals -- especially when they cook up fast and are delicious?! This is a combination of Pasta Fagiole and "Greens and Beans" (the latter an upstate New York favorite). It can be made with a variety of different greens (I chose kale the first time around because that was most affordable), although I think that sharper greens are the better choice. The recipe appeared in our local supermarket's (Hannaford) bi-monthly magazine. It will look like you have way too much kale to possibly get this all to cook properly: never fear, just keep stirring!
Units: US | Metric
Serving Size: 1 (639 g)
Servings Per Recipe: 4
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