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Demeyere Atlantis stuff looks great
I already have a nice collection of allclad but I am currently addicted to my new hobby of collecting life lasting cookware. I can't do cast iron(I cant have iron in my diet) so I am thinking about adding the http://www.surlatable.com/gs/demeyere... to my kitchen.
I see that set and its essentially the exact pieces and sizes I use daily. Its a perfect set.
I love my allclads. allclad is 20 minutes away from me and I love made in usa products.
But, for fun when funds allow I wouldn't mind picking up some demeyere, just because I love cooking.
Its probably ostentacious of me, but I love to cook and love cookware.
Has anyone bought this set? Is the demeyere stuff worth the money, they do seem a bit overpriced. Its definitely double what I would pay for comparable allclad.
I just thought of something; does no iron include stainless steel?
And also, if you're collecting the best, have you considered copper?
mmdad, Demeyere Atlantis definitely is two steps up from All Clad. The Atlantis line (like the Sirocco line) has a substantial copper disk in the base of its non-sauteuse (that is, its vertical-sided) pots. Even if all else were equal, copper diffuses heat better than aluminum, but the layer of aluminum in non-disk All Clad construction is thinner than the Atlantis's copper layer (thickness is directly correlated with conduction efficiency). As frosting on the cake, the Atlantis also sandwiches the copper in even better-conducting silver (albeit a very thin layer of silver). The Atlantis conical sauteuse is of an aluminum sandwich construction, but there, too, the aluminum thickness between the stainless layers is thicker than the aluminum layer in the All Clad lines.
I don't have a set, mmdad, but I do have the Atlantis in a covered saute pan and the covered casserole (5 quart, I think).
The stuff is fabulous! FABULOUS. Great heat conductor, great for deglazing, handles stay cool as long as they're not right over the flame, goes in the oven, goes in the dishwasher, easy to clean, food browns beautifully but doesn't stick. The only "con" I see to it is the price tag, which is high as you noted, but, honestly, to me...worth every single penny. I'm not a big AllClad fan, so take this for what it's worth, since you're happy with your AC, but, to me, the Demeyere Atlantis is head and shoulders above AC. (More comfortable handle design for me, too, but that's very personal to every hand.)
The Silvinox lining in the Atlantis is great. I think a couple of Demeyere's other lines feature that, too--probably Apollo for sure, but that's not much less expensive (I don't think)... Go check out Demeyere's site to see if some of the less expensive lines feature it.
It certainly is an investment, but really wonderful stuff to cook with, IMO.
re: cityhopper
I don't really see it go on sale, cityhopper, but a friend of mine was able to obtain a display sample of one pan at half-off. Then it becomes more affordable. Nothing wrong with the pan she got, just "used" in the salesroom. So if anyone's interested and has access IRL or online to places who do that, it might be worth a shot.
And of course you just don't know, in this economy. Seems to me like just about everybody is putting everything on sale...
re: Normandie
What an awesome deal your friend received on the display unit. I would snatch one up in a heartbeat too if I can across a similar offer.
In the meantime, I'll probably visit Sur La Table to get a good feel of the pan (and lust over it to myself LOL).
re: cityhopper
Yes, I'd do that, too, if I came across a sample.
The thing is, though, I can't really think of another Demeyere I need. I try to find reasons to need them, ha, but it's hard to justify getting a pan "just for fun" at that price. I am looking to replace my sauce pans, but even I can't rationalize paying their prices for something that I basically only simmer veggies in. I do a sauce in a saucepan or saucier or a pastry cream maybe twice a year. Hmmm...maybe I should commit to baking more cream-filled goodies so I can get my Demeyere. :-)
I'll tell you what, though, city. Check the pan out at SLT, but don't buy it there. Well, that is if you agree with me that SLT's prices tend to be high anyway? A good source online might be The Knife Merchant. He carries Demeyere. So I'd go see it in person then comparison shop online.
re: Normandie
Last year, I was looking to buy a 3.2 qt Demeyere Scirocco saucepan, and I found a really good sale (I thought) at Sur La Table. It turned out that they were selling the pan without the lid. Purchasing a lid AND the sale price pan would have come to more than buying the 2 pieces new on Amazon, which I did. Sometimes a bargain is not a bargain.
re: mnosyne
Exactly, mnosyne. Just my personal experience, but whenever I comparison shop online for something, SLT never seems to have the best price (at all). But I don't know SLT that well, and it could just happen to be the particular things I've shopped for.
But, additionally, Demeyere--especially the Atlantis line--seems to be one of those names that vendors don't relax the prices on. You really have to keep your eyes open to find a special deal on Atlantis. (I have seen some good sales on their mid- to lowest-end collections, though, and although some of them are not multiply, but instead have disk bottoms, I still have the feeling they're better quality than a lot of cookware. This company seems to know what it's doing.)
MMDAD, City Kitchens in Seattle is having a serious sale on Demeyere Atlantis until October 1st. (They will ship.) www.citykitchenseattle.com
re: Leper
Thanks everyone. I am not sure I totally agree that they are better than the allclad from my experience but they are certainly nice. I love my allclad handles- its a common complaint but they seem to work perfect for me. The demeyere 4 piece set is just the perfect sizes and they look great so that is what I want to get. I do not have the finances at the moment but as soon as I do I am getting the 4 piece set. I would love to hear more from those who have these pans so keep talking if you can.
Thanks everyone
re: Leper
Correction on the link you posted:
re: cityhopper
I checked the web site out but it is a parking place for other sites.
Demeyere Atlantis is better cookware than most All Clad. Handles are riveted, and the pots are either clad or disk bottomed, depending upon use intended. When you buy All Clad, you are committing to "all clad all the time" in terms of construction, as well as uncomfortable handles and rivets.
That said, I am not a fan or Sirocco, which has very uncomfortable "stylish" handles, so I would recommend sticking with the Atlantis, which is a fabulous, easy to clean and high performing line, or the lower cost Apollo (good for some pieces, Atlantis has better designed disk bottoms).
As for the OP who asked about iron in stainless steel: Yes, iron is used to make steel, but in stainless steel cookware it is in alloy form and is non-reactive. Cast iron is reactive. Yes, some high quality copper is also the same price as Demeyere Atlantis, but it is harder to maintain.
I am sure that the All Clad nation will likely write some kind of nasty response, but please keep in mind that I too have some All Clad and have been able to compare them side by side. All Clad is very good cookware, but there are better things out there.
re: RGC1982
People should also keep in mind that some Demeyere lines have metal lids, while some have glass lids. Since there are fans of each lid type, it's definitely something people need to double-check about any particular Demeyere collection they may be interested in.
re: Normandie
All of the lids are interchangable among the different product lines (so the people at SLT say, and it also appears that way from reading the company brochures) so one can order them separately and mix-n-match..
re: E_M
Just wanted to say thanks to both of your previous posts. I actually took some time to view the website, it appears the Atlantis line is considered their 5-star cookware and Apollo is their 4-star cookware. Both are recommended for professional use. Considering that, looking at Apollo pieces and saving a few extra dollars may be worth it as I assume the quality and the uses in a home kitchen would suffice.
re: cityhopper
YW, city. I don't have the Apollo, simply because I preferred the Atlantis styling, but I have seen some of the Apollo pieces in person and, JMO, but based on that and my satisfaction with Atlantis, I wouldn't hesitate at all to buy Apollo or even from the less expensive collections.
Does the website say anything about its warrantee policy, btw?
Oh! MetroKitchen is having a sale on Demeyere. I haven't compared their sale prices to full price, though.
And the Knife Merchant offers free shipping on orders above $50, which isn't insignificant, because it's not lightweight stuff. www.knifemerchant.com
re: Normandie
30 year warranty (10 year for professional use).
Products with non stick coating: 5 years guarantee (not for professional use).
re: cityhopper
I have had the Apollo for 4 years (a 5-pc set came with our induction top), and have to say it is an absolute PLEASURE to use. I am older, and the sheer weight of the All-Clad and the Costco Signature (good value) is just too hard for me. I LOVE the Demeyere Apollo. BTW, in addition to their high-end and Apollo lines, they have a "Resto" line which you can find at some restaurant supply houses, at good prices. Resto is especially good for those larger pieces, like stockpots and big braisers. I have some random pieces, one of which, a large braiser I found at TJ Maxx, is one of my favorite pots. I think it is a Sitram--is the exact diameter of the largest burner and has a glass lid. Very useful. I guess my points are: (1) Demeyere cookware for induction is absolutely wonderful (imho), and (2) Think about whether you really need the HEAVY cookware. Demeyere makes cookware specifically for induction and in my opinion, they make the best (though expensive). For pieces you don't use every day, look around for those random ones at discount stores like TJX or Marshall's.
re: E_M
This is to E_M: That's useful to know, re the interchangeability. That's certainly one way to cut the cost at least a little bit--for exampel, if you have two different shape but same size vessels you wouldn't use at once, you could get one lid. I did that with two pots from another manufacturer (can't remember which right now, but it was a savings).
re: Normandie
Good point. I avoid glass lids like the plague. I absolutely hate them, so my pieces all have stainless steel lids. Some retailers will let you buy your lids separately, and you can then choose your preference. 125West, the retailer I have purchased from several times, bundles the stainless steel lids with the pots. I don't recall specifically, but I do seem to have some notion of seeing or reading about some glass lid options.
The stainless steel lids for Demeyere all appear to be well made and interchangeable; I just don't like the feel of the funky Sirocco handles.
re: RGC1982
I dislike glass lids intensely, too, RGC. I just don't know why I do. :-) It makes sense to me when others say they *like* them, because it allows them to monitor the cooking, etc., but to me for some reason they seem too bulky, need more attention storing, etc.
I really like the Demeyere metal lids because they're the flatter type, easier to store, etc., and fit very well to make the seal. I often use them with my other, non-Demeyere SS cookware, too.
re: Normandie
You know these demeyere are super nice but I got to check some more out today and I can't help but think that the allclads that I own are much more sturdy and more durable feeling. I like the idea of no rivets but honestly it doesn't inspire confidence. I plan on getting some demeyere at some point but I can see why so many dig the allclad stuff.
re: mmdad
Well, again, it always comes down to what each of us feels comfortable with and our priorities.
I understand why you mean by sturdy if you're referring to the solidity of the AC. I know the bottom of the Demeyere pans seems thinner, for example. But for whatever reasons, mine have been durable. I have used the Demeyere saute *a lot*, especially.
And you certainly have a lot of company on the rivet issue, mmdad. That seems to be one of things cooks feel strongly about, one way or the other. The one thing I've noticed is that the rivets of some of my pans get etched in the dishwasher. I don't care so much, looks wise, but I wonder if that will weaken them (over years' use). So I think that's why I like the Demeyere welding. But notice Soop's post above re D's 30-year-guarantee. AC's warranty is lifelong, isn't it? I wonder if the handles are why?
re: Normandie
Yeah the demeyere seem rather thin and even though they are 7 ply when you give them the knuckle rap that just don't ring like an all clad. they are beautiful but I think I may only want 1 or 2 speciality pieces in my kitchen. I actually like the rivets. I understand the pain a toothbrush cleaning every once in a while means but I think its durable. I have no clue if demeyere's welds will ever be a problem but I do feel that allclad rivets will not be a problem ever and like you said they both have great warranties. I like them both but may prefer allclad for everyday use.
re: mmdad
mmdsd: "...the demeyere seem rather thin and even though they are 7 ply when you give them the knuckle rap that just don't ring like an all clad."
You are comparing apples and oranges. The seven-ply Demeyere pieces are saucepans and stockpots, and they have seven plies in the base only, and for a very good reason. (Most of the heat that is conducted up the side of a vertical-sided pot goes to heating the room, not the contents of the pot, and it is energy that is drawn away from heating the pot at its base, where it can do some good.) All-Clad, more concerned with marketing than function, either does not understand the reasons, or chooses to ignore them. For the curved-side sauciers, the Demeyere pieces are five ply all the way up the sides, and they are thicker than the relatively anemic All Clad gauges, because a thin aluminum "filling" between the stainless outer layers really is not all that efficient to conduct heat.
Incidentally, except for the handles, the five-ply Demeyere Atlantis pieces are the same as the less expensive five-ply Demeyere Apollo pieces, so, unless you are showing the handles off to your guests, you can save some money by getting the five-ply pieces from the Apollo line, leaving more money to spend on the seven-ply Atlantis pieces, which are different from (and better than) the Apollo equivalents.
re: Politeness
So the Atlantis with its disk bottom is better for flat bottomed pots, where the cooking is done from the bottom up, as opposed to a wok, where the food is supposed to be cooking on most of the interior surface?
re: mmdad
A bit of a dissenting view here. While Demeyere is indeed the cream of the crop when it comes to SS cookware, I would question your need to buy any of it if you already have a complete set of All-Clad pots and pans. Why not take a serious look at what you have and look to fill gaps instead of duplicating what you own with a needless set?
Do you own an enameled cast iron Dutch oven, for example? (I know you can't ingest iron but as you have been told in another thread, you would be ok with this.)
Also, in terms of rivets and cookware, I was in your camp before purchasing a Sitram Catering saucepan with a welded handle. I can assure you that there is absolutely no way I can see it fail. It is a dream to clean an interior sans rivets.
Last but not least, I wonder why you are excluding high end copper cookware from your search. If you are considering just a few pieces to supplement your collection, you really should investigate 2.5mm stainless steel lined copper vessels. Some of the best are manufactured by Falk Culinair:
Best vessels that take advantage of copper's characteristics: sauciere's (including the 1.5 qt. "Try Me" piece) and fry pans.
re: danwalk
Dan thanks for the reply.
As for cast iron. I love the stuff but I think I am more interested now in pottery like emile henry. I can use the stuff and I like the flametop collection so I am looking at one of those.
As for demeyere. They are fantastic and the welds may just be fine.
But as you said I have allclad and I feel confident in them and their rivets.
I like cookware right now as a hobby. I have no needs really for anymore its just fun. I plan to get a demeyere or two. But no longer really feel urgency.
As for copper, well I just cant be bothered. I know the benefits but I honestly don't feel like worrying about the cleaning and polishing and such. I know some people just let them patina but to me I would be driven crazy by them.
SS is simple and the allclad makes me happy. So I am good.
The only desire is a few demeyere in the future.
re: danwalk
Thanks for mentioning the info on Sitram cookware.
While I have no complaints about the performance of my current SS cookware, I complete loathe the rivets. I am not looking replace anything but look to add certain specialty pieces that I do not have from the Sitram and Demeyere cookware lines.
re: mmdad
I don't think that the Demeyere disk bottoms are thinner than AC, I believe they are thicker. However, the dear marketing folks at AC don't publish these specs (if they are published, please tell me where to read them) and so you are left guessing.
Truthfully, my biggest complaints about AC are that 1) Clad is not the best choice in every situation; but it is fine for many situations; 2) I, unlike you, hate to clean rivets. Plus, I have experienced rivets loosening, not on AC but on other lines, so the confidence you have in rivets is just not there for me; 3) AC handles are less comfortable that Demeyere Atlantis handles. I am not alone in this assessment, and there are several previous threads on these boards with posts from others complaining about the same thing.
This is not to say bad things about AC, but it is meant to explain why I prefer Atlantis. It is possible for a weld to fail too, but I have never experienced it personally, so to each his own. As I said, I have some AC too, and it is great stuff, but this is just my preference.
My final word on copper -- Love the stuff, especially Falk, but you have to be willing to care for it. Good choice to stick with SS if you are not that into cleaning it by hand.
re: mmdad
Interesting--just goes to show that different people have different priorities. I think the Demeyere cookware is likely to hold up quite well--it is optimized for cooking on induction, and they build them to last. There is no way these pots are going to warp. As for being "sturdy," I guess for some people that means they have to have a lot of weight. Not in my case. This is high-quality and worth the money. I gave my All-Clad and the Costco Signature set I tried to my kids. They have gas stoves and it works great on them. Just a word from an old lady who still cooks a lot--you don't need to lift 10 pounds of pot to cook 10 pounds of food. Do the math, and remember nobody gets any younger ;-). There will come a time when you will appreciate exemplary quality that doesn't have to weigh a ton, unless you are a weight-lifter anyway and want to work out when you cook. Just my 2c.
So I (stumbled) into SLT and saw the Demeyere pans (in person) for the first time and I fell in love. The feel of them--perfect. No rivets--smooth interior on cooking surface. Only if they let me borrow one for a few days would this have completed my dream. I'll keep my eye on the market and if it takes one piece at a time, I will have a few in my ultimate cookware collection.
re: cityhopper
Zabar's in NYC is another place that carries Demeyer. Check online for some of the pieces they carry or if you're in NY, go to the housewares dept. on the second floor--they have a big selection and decent prices.
re: cityhopper
I haven't found SLT to ever be the best-price source of anything. And, unless your love is for the higher-end lines of Demeyere SLT carries, shop around and look at the Apollo and Resto lines.
Regards, from someone who fell in love with Apollo (the cookware, not the God)
I have several of the cheapest Demeyere ("Resto" line) pots and love the hell out of them. Even cooking, absence of annoying rivets, what's not to love?
I have had Demeyere cookware for around 10 years. I've been cooking for over 60 years on and in every sort of heat source, wood-fired, kerosene, gas including professional hotel range, coil electric, glass top electric, induction, and camp fire. I've used plain aluminum (no longer), stainless lined aluminum (all clad) tin-lined copper, stainless-steel lined copper, copper core (all clad), copper clad (all clad), plain cast iron, enameled cast iron (Le Creuset), scan pan, circulon, original calphalon, aluminum core stainless (all clad, mauviel, demeyere), calphalon non-stick, non-stick aluminum restaurant wear, pretty much any material you can name.
Demeyere is absolutely the best. No question.
I don't have Atlantis, but I have Sirocco - same construction, different design and finish - and I also have Apollo - less expensive, less elegant, but superb. I venture to say the most used piece in all the cookware I own is the Apollo 9.25" skillet - surely 6 days out of 7. Next comes the Apollo MaxiGrill - use it for baking, broiling, grilling, griddling, keeping things warm. No matter what, get yourself this piece. After using it once, I got a second one. The Sirocco saute pan is incredible - remember to use lower heat than any other cookware, it's super efficient. Really, don't get anything but Demeyere.
re: matt71
I had several Demeyere Atlantis pieces which I ended up selling and keeping my All Clad MC2 instead. I did like the Demeyere fry pans which do not have the thick disk on the bottom. But, the saute pans and sauce pans were just too heavy in the long run because of the thick discs on the bottom to be very functional for me. I prefer the uniform thickness up the sides of the All Clad MC2 line.
re: matt71
I wonder if you can tell me about the differences between the silvinox finish on the Apollo and the Brinox finish on the Sirocco. In a fit of madness, I bought some Sirocco on EBay, and now regret that I did not get Atlantis (with the same finish as the Apollo.) I want to start using the pans but have hesitated. Is there really a lot of difference in the cleanup? Can you say anything to make me feel less bad about this purchase? I know the heat distribution is the same. Thanks
re: Aussiesurfer
I'd be interested to find out if the Demeyere wok worked well on an induction cooktop too.
re: pikawicca
Ohh pray tell, so you are one of those people who choose not to use a carbon steel wok. Do you use the wok on a super high heat? It shows in a youtube video that a medium high heat is sufficent when using the wok.
Also which design did you choose? flat base, round base, round base with 3 little legs, ControlInduct.
I've been using my Demeyere saute pan, and while I don't find food sticks, I do miss the rounded shape, and the fact that the bottom is hot and the sides are a little cooler.
re: pikawicca
pikawicca: "Where did this come from?"
re: Politeness
Wow, that's a beautiful piece of cookware, but $245 for a wok seems very wrong to me. People who cook with woks 3 meals a day could feed their entire family for a year on $245. Sorry, this is just the way I'm feeling at the moment.
I love the Atlantis cookware. After much research online I decided to start investing in it.
I did a long write up and photos here:
re: tzakiel
So is there any difference between the Atlantis and the Apollo? Is it just the handle design?
re: Seitan
Seitan: "So is there any difference between the Atlantis and the Apollo?"
Big differences in the disk-bottom pieces; just handles in the 5-ply pieces.
re: Politeness
In the disk-bottoms, what are the differences?
Also, I notice they have the pasta insert for both Atlantis and Apollo which look identical, except they are different prices.
re: Seitan
Ok, curiosity got the better of me, and I ordered the Atlantis 3 qt. sauce pan which has been on sale. There's no kitchen store in my city that sells Demeyere, so I had to order it online.
First Impressions: The outside is rather plain jane. The stainless looks almost like aluminum. It's not brushed stainless, not satin, not polished mirror chrome, and there's no copper ring around the bottom or anything to give it a distinctive look. It doesn't look ugly, just plain.
The handle is nice, not too round, not too flat. It has a big wide fork where it's attached to the pan, helping keep it cool. The handle slopes up from the pan then straight out, unlike a stick handle which is straight out at an angle. The unit I received, however, has one side of the fork of the handle welded to the pan a little lower than the other, making the handle tilt slightly to one side. The handle has a bigger loop than most handles I've seen for hanging on a big hook if need be.
When picking up and handling the pot, it definitely feels bottom-heavy. This is due to the 7 layer bottom piece. Holding it in my hand, gravity pulls it down and away from me. Not as heavy as cast iron, but very solid. I would have to get used to the bottom-heavy feel, which can seem a little unbalanced compared to most pots.
The sides are suprisingly thin. My Cuisinart multiclad pan sidewalls are definitely thicker. I wonder how they'll perform in terms of heat retention.
The inside where the sidewalls meet the bottom disk is a sharper 90 degree angle compared to most pots I've seen. Speaking of the insides, the finish really looks aluminumy, if that's a word. It reminds me of aluminum pots I've seen in restaurant supply stores. The finish has grinding or polishing streaks in it, even though it feels perfectly smooth. It tricks your eye into thinking those streaks have texture. It looks kind of like the back side of an aluminum hub cap. It is stainless steel though, as I read somewhere, all traces of iron (I think) are removed from it in a chemical catalytic process.
The lid has a slight dome shape to it. The top of the lid handle is wider than most lid handles and is close to the all-clad D5 lid handle in size, but smaller. The lid fits about the same as other lids I've experienced. The product sales pitch is that they are 'tight fitting', but I wouldn't call them that. They are of avaerage fitness. Same as my Cuisinart pots. It would be even better if the lids were a bit more dome shaped, but that's probably nit-picking.
The handles have no rivets, either on the pan or on the lid. So no need to clean around them. That is a nice feature.
The pouring lip on the Demeyere Atlantis sauce pan is rather flat and the edge is almost sharp. This in contrast to the new D5 All-clad which has a more rounded flare to the lip. I tried to create some drips down the side of the pan by pouring water out in in a jerking motion. The flat, sharp pouring edge seemed to work as no drips came down the side. However, there were a few drips directly under the lip. My Cuisinart, with its more rounded lip did not have any drips underneath the lip.
I then tested the pot against my Cuisinart Multiclad in a heat-up showdown. I boiled 1500 ml of cold tap water in both the Demeyere and Cuisnart Multiclad of the same size, using the same burner on my stove, and timed it from a cold element turned up to medium high. The Cuisinart 3 qt sauce pan took almost exactly 10 minutes from a cold start to a rolling boil. The Demeyere Atlantis 3 qt pot took almost exactly 8 minutes. There is definitely some awesome heat transfer happening in the Demeyere. Even accounting for slight inconsistencies in my test method, I think I'd be safe in saying the Atlantis pots heat up faster than my clad pots.
I noticed the sidewalls got almost as hot as my Cuisinart clad pots. I was expecting a more noticable difference. I could tap the sides of my Cuisinart pot containing a rolling boil of water with my finger for a split second before pulling it away. Same with the Atlantis, but only a split second longer (not scientific I know). With my Le Crueset pots I can literally hold my fingers on the outside of the pot for a good dozen seconds while it is boiling away with water. Now that is heat rentention. My Cuisinart Multiclad pots seem more like radiator pots in comparison. I'd hate to try to touch an All-Clad Copper core pot at full boil.
One more thing about the finish. It looks like it would show wear and scuff marks more conspicuously than other stainles steel. After just moving it around my stove a little, I've already noticed some small scratches on the outside bottom that don't come off with Bar Keeper. The finish does seem oddly more soft, yet more stick resistant, but also more prone to wear marks. But this is only a preliminary judgement.
I plan to do a few more tests, but I will stop writing my review here for now.
re: Seitan
I'm going with the Fissler Solea line for my pots when they're available..i don't see anything special with the Demeyere pots,actually they look and feel cheap to me.
re: Seitan
I am curious how your Demeyere pan has held up? I am about to get new cookware for our new induction cooktop and the Demeyere Industry5 is a heavy contender. I like the features (design, welded handles, avaiablity of pots that I use, etc.) but everytime I go look at them in the store they look very cheap. I know that function is the biggest priority but I have an open kitchen with open shelves and I'd also like the cookware to look nice (espeically at that price range).
Has the finish held up? I've been to 3 different SurLa Tables and each store features rather banged up pots on display. I can chalk some of this up to multiple customers handling the merchnadise and not being carfeful but the other lines on display don't look as tattered.
I also want to be able to cook with a wire whisk or metal tongs on occasion. I treat my cookware with care but don't want to feel as if Im cooking with poreclain.
Just not sure about this whole Silvinox finish- what I really want is just a brushed stainless steel. (a polished surface is definitely out of the question- already had that for the past decade and I'm tired of it)
re: DarenL
I absolutely love my Demeyere cookware (I use it on my induction hob). I might not be as picky as you re the finish--the pieces I have are not matte stainless--they are shiny and have the Silvinox finish, but after using it since 2006 I'm more than satisfied. The finish has held up beautifully, but the MOST IMPORTANT things for me: (1) it is lighter in weight than any of the other induction pieces I have (definitely lighter than AllClad!), and (2) it cooks responsively on the induction best of all of them--no other cookware I have (I have tried a whole bunch of brands) does as well or is as easy to handle.
But YMMV, of course--I'm in my 70s and don't much like hauling heavy cookware around any more, and love it when there are implements that don't become obstacles to continuing to cook.
Demeyere is made for induction cooking. I think it's the best.
re: Politeness
There are some detailed differences between Atlantis and Apollo, for starters you can review the chart at http://www.demeyere.be/default.asp?CI..., and while there, you can click on the various topics such as Technologies. For more in depth details about how each type piece is made differently for it's own use, click on Catalogue and Information then Download Information. You have to scroll to the English translation, but it is worth the information. I reviewed all these things in making a decision for my own cookware, and was amazed that one never hears all their design features in common discussions. Every pan is designed for it's own particular use and type of utensils, for instance some have the triply or 7 layers all the way up the sides, while some types of pans do not, depending on what that pan will be used for in terms of recipes, and how it can be tailored for the best result. They are also the very first manufacturer to make pans for induction, and with Apollo's controlinduc, the pan will not overheat ever on induction. It stops receiving heat at once when a certain temp is reached. No two types of pots or pans are made the same, they are custom tailored in design for the recipes and cooking type of the individual vessel. Saute pans are not going to be the same as a fry pan, etc. It's really brilliant technology and artistry combined. I read up on it all when deciding, I don't sell pans or anything. I also called Sur LaTable and asked which were returned least, and it was hands down Demeyere, never returned for warping, which All Clad definitely is commonly. Demeyere also makes Viking by the way. I love my Demeyere. I would love to get more.
Comparison of Demeyere Atlantis vs. Falk Copper (Heat Transfer and Boiling Speed)
You buy copper pans for heat transfer speed and the benefits of its resulting responsiveness to changes in heat. You buy other pans like Demeyere because they are easier to care for.
Ease of care is important to me, but so is performance. I wanted to find out for sure if the heat transfer differences were very substantial, so I bought a Falk 10.5 quart 11" stock pot and a Demeyere Atlantis 8.5 quart 9" stock pot. (Falk is 2.5mm brushed copper coated with a .008" thick stainless (not tin) lining. They are equivalent to high-end Mauviel or Bourgeat in technical respects, except that they have a brushed finish rather than a mirror polish.)
Starting with a room-temperature stove (in both tests) on a 15k BTU gas burner on high-heat, I timed how long it took to bring *equal* amounts of cold water (same temperature) to a rolling boil.
The Demeyere took 26 minutes to reach a rolling boil.
The Falk took 19.5 minutes to reach a rolling boil.
The Falk was extremely responsive to temperature changes. Cutting the heat ceased the boiling within 5-10 seconds.
The Demeyere responded to a heat cut in 8-15 seconds or longer. Restoring the heat resulted in similar lags in returning the pots to full boil. Copper was certainly the more nimble and you could see how a responsive it would be for sautéing or cutting the heat in the event the pan got too hot.
The only real shortcoming in that particular test was that I was comparing an 11" pan to a 9" pan. The broader surface area of the Falk would certainly cause it to absorb more heat and boil water faster. So I also compared an 11" Falk fry pan and an 11" Demeyere fry pan, boiling approximately 4 cups of cold water on a cold stove in both cases.
Again, the Falk won the contest, boiling water approximately 4 minutes faster than the Demeyere fry pan, all things being equal. This size-for-size comparison was as fair as I could make it. If you're looking for cooking responsiveness and rapid boiling, copper's the only game in town.
I ended up keeping the Falk pans and returning the Demeyeres to Sur la Table. For me, the ability to sauté on lower heat; boil water faster; or quickly "rescue" food that's getting too hot (by cutting the heat and obtaining a rapid cool-down) outweighed the benefits of being able to throw the pan in the dishwasher.
The Demeyeres are wonderful pans - beautiful and easy to care for. If you have an induction stove, I'd go with them because copper would require an ugly (and hot) iron lug to be placed underneath the pan. If you have gas, copper is certainly a more nimble metal when it comes to heat responsiveness. The Falks I bought cleaned nicely with Bar Keeper's Friend.
The Demeyere has a brighter silver finish on the inside which I found shows tiny hairline scratches caused by Bar Keeper's Friend (or the green Scotchbrite pad) - whereas the Falk's stainless interior was immune to such scratching.
Both brands are heavy, but Falk is heaviest - some people complain about the weight of copper pans but I think it's just whining to complain about a 5-8lb weight of a pan (it's not that heavy once you get used to it).
re: ProtonVehiCROSS
This was a very helpful post, thanks. But I don't understand how the falk copper would allow you to saute at a lower temperature than the demeyere.
I understand copper's properties, and agree that it is a superior material for a small sauce pan to regulate temperature. I also concede that it boils water faster but, for a pot whose purpose is to boil water, what is the rationale in buying a significantly less expensive stock pot? I guess I boil less water than you. ;)
Lastly, according to Sur la Table's youtube videos on Demeyere, the pans excel at retaining heat; that is, the demonstration shows how the contents of the pots continued to cook even when removed from the heat source (or kept on a simmer). I don't believe they make any claim to be responsive. So, how does the Falk allow you to saute at a lower heat?
EDIT: They continue to cook with the lid ON.
re: E_M
Copper allows cooking at lower temperatures because the heat transfer is so excellent. Copper is kind of like an 8-line heat super-highway, whereas other materials are going to be less than that -- maybe equivalent to a 3-5 lane highway.
In order to get a non-copper pan to the same temperature as a copper one, you have to have the burner turned higher, because more of the heat escapes up and around the pan rather than INTO the pan (and into your food). Because copper sucks that heat right up, like a sponge, it quickly captures more heat before it has a chance to escape up and around the pan. It transfers it quickly into your food. Some copper manufacturers talk about copper being a 'greener' and more efficiently cookware due to this property.
In my own experience, I had to have the Demeyere Atlantis on medium-high heat on a 9K BTU gas burner to cook an egg. There was a longer warm-up time as well. The copper Falks require medium heat and were ready to cook an egg faster than the Demeyeres, and they cooled off a bit faster.
Also, to sauté vegetables required medium-high heat with Demeyere whereas the Falks require only medium heat.
For my style of cooking I like a responsive pan. To borrow the car analogy again, I want something that zooms from 0-60 in record time and also stops on a dime. Copper does that. A pan that "keeps cooking" after you remove it from the heat is hardly a selling point in my opinion, unless it's a serving pan intended to keep food warm at the table.
In fact, just the other day, in using a cast iron pan, I had the heat a tad too high and burned some sugar. It took the cast iron pan 2 minute to stop smoking the sugar after it was removed from the heat. Had it been a copper pan, I'm sure it would've stopped smoking in 20-30 seconds.
We've bumped forward 5 years. I've just finished reading this mostly 2009 thread, and identify strongly with the Demeyere Atlantis fans. IMO, Demeyere pans and pots are often the best solution for induction cooking, starting with fry pans and skillets. Unfortunately, they are out of reach for me--perhaps like the high end copper pots that gas users dream about, but never purchase.
My price points are $100 for a pot or pan--and I struggle with All Clad products in that range. EBAY has been my friend, and I won/purchased two d5 10" fry pans w/one lid for $130--well within my limits. I could have purchased one comparable Demeyere fry pan on a special Zwilling one day sale for $150. If such miracles happened twice, two such pans and a lid might cost: $150 + $150 + $50 (for lid)= $350--almost three times as much. I struggled with sauce pans, but could have purchased some form of induction compatible All Clad pans (1 1/2, 2, 3 1/2 qt.) for about $350, but not three d5's. Three Atlantis pots by Demeyere could easily cost $1000--and I see little advantage for them over All Clad tri pli.
For one pot meals, I prefer the enameled cast iron of Staub and Le Creuset. I've got Coq au vin pots, paella pots, and bouillabaisse pots, round and oval, that work better for me than anything from Demeyere--too much responsiveness can be a problem some time.
Just like the lost kingdom, Atlantis will remain an unfulfilled fantasy for me.
re: drrayeye
Hi Ray,
I've owned a Proline (Atlantis) skillet and while they're excellent, no question, I didn't feel it was ultimately worth the price difference between Demeyere and other excellent pans, especially when it's a 2-for-1 price difference like yours.
If you'd paid $100/pan for yours, it *might* be worth going up another $50 for the big sale on Demeyere, but that's a pretty iffy *might*. It's one of those diminishing returns things and I definitely think you've hit the sweet spot.
re: DuffyH
Hi Duffy,
We agree. See my personal overall "solution" here:
re: drrayeye
Hi Ray,
As an owner of Atlantis cookware, I can definitely say that it is not comparable to All-Clad pans - I have had All-Clad and have given it all away. It does not compare in so many aspects, unfortunate, including price. My one complaint is the price. I managed to hunt for really good sales and even Sierra Trading Post had some great pans there, so I was able to get a great collection that fit my budget. My budget is not low, so that helps. People cook fabulous meals without Demeyere pans, so it is not the be all end all of the cooking world, but that still does not take away from the fact that it is really, really fabulous cookware.
re: laraffinee
Hi laraffinee,
I'm convinced about Demeyere--especially Atlantis. I'm especially intrigued by their reputation with induction. My personal cooking solution is empty nester, lower budget, high end dreams:
I suspect that I'll find a way to sneak an Atlantis fry pan or skillet into my collection, sooner or later.
re: laraffinee
hi laraffinee,
I wouldn't compare Proline skillets to classic All-Clad, but rather to other very thick pans like Ray's All-Clad d5 and my Vollrath Tribute. These pans are themselves much better than classic All-Clad.
Demeyere is another step up. But for those of us with a limited budget, it becomes a question (that we all must answer for ourselves) of *how much* performance increase we'll get, and is it worth the premium price tag.


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I love these curtains! They are lovely and sumptuous. I purchased 6 of them for a large guest area and they are exactly what I was hoping for! They are a bit more on the plum side than a true purple, but that's what I wanted. Just an FYI for future purchasers. I would not call them eggplant, because that is a true purple...they have more red in them than blue. If that is what you are looking for, they won't be a disappointment at all!!
These drapes are absolutely beautiful. I bought them for my daughters bedroom. We have silk and velvet drapes from Pottery Barn but these are much better quality and at almost half the price! They unfolded virtually wrinkle free and I was able to put them up in my girls room immediately without steaming. The blackout feature is nice too as it darkens the room for naps and keeps it cool. Just love them! In fact, I am planning to order 10 more panels for my family room!
The drapes look stunning in my purple bedroom. The drapes are beautiful and the material looks very expensive. I very happy with the velvet and the color.
Very, very pleased with this purchase although the color is more plum than eggplant. The description did not mention they have back tabs for hanging which is a plus and the reason I can compromise on the color difference. The back tabs make them hang better than the pole pocket and no need for ugly rings or inconvenience of attaching hooks. For the price they are heavy, have a good lining, block the morning light very well, insulate, and look much more expensive. The most impressive feature, unlike other drapes, is they actually are noise reducing!!! Two panels doesn't look bad on a 72" window although 3 would be better, 4 would almost be too much. I have priced velvet drapes everywhere and these are an increidible buy. So happy I ordered more in another color. You can't go wrong even if you are a perfectionist.
I am an interior designer and purchased these drapes for a client. She fell in love at first sight with them as we took them out of the box, and they look even better hung over her french doors. She wanted drapes that would block out the sunlight during the day to avoid overheating in her room, and these drapes did the trick perfectly. The fabric is thick and sumptuous, and the aubergine color is simply scrumptious. We were both thrilled to find such a high quality black out drape at this price!
The look and feel of these curtains are amazing. Not only are they lined, but they a dual pole pocket and hidden tabs AND curtain weights which makes them hang very nicely. The weight and feel if luxurious. You won't regret buying these.
These are nice quality simple velvet drapes. The color is on the wine side of purple.
I really like these curtains. The color is rich, the drape is nice, and they really do cut down on noise, heat and cold from outside. One little thing to mention is that the fabric is more like microsuede than velvet -- still quite nice, though.
I haven't seen any curtains as beautiful as this set hanging from any of those fenetres at Buckingham Palace and think these are way too lovely to hang in an apt here in New York so I might just keep them for the Palace I'm dreaming of building on a deserted island. Overstock you've outdone yourself. I'd rather give them six stars because these are simply tres belle.
Gorgeous! Love the quality and color. looks great hanging
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South Yarmouth House Rental Photos and Description
LR with cathedral ceilings,outdoor shower, 3 bedrooms, 1 full bathroom, sleeps 6
Bright & cheery single story home with 3 bedrooms, 1 full bathroom and a living room with catherdral ceilings and skylights to let in that Cape Cod sunshine! Cool off or clean up after a day at the beach in the outdoor shower! Start your morning with a nice cup of coffee on the front porch. Enjoy the fantastic, private fenced in backyard with new gas grill.
Bedrooms - 2 queen beds, and 3rd bedroom has two twin beds.
Laundry room with washer & dryer
47' TV with Sony home theater system is great for following the Red Sox, or watching your favorite DVD. 27' TV and VCR/DVD player in one of the bedrooms allows children to wind down from a day at the beach with a movie.
Kitchen fully stocked (including lobster pot! toaster, coffee maker, microwave, blender etc....)
What to do?!?: Your choice of 2 beaches within walking distance (or a short drive). Parkers River Beach on the Nantucket Sound is 0.4 miles, where you will find a small playground for children & a restaurant for lunch or an afternoon snack/cocktail across the street. The larger 'Resident only' beach is 0.6 miles from the cottage.
For a little variety - Route 28 is 0.4 miles from the cottage - where you will find mulitple ice cream storefronts (Blondies & Dairy Queen), batting cages, mini-golf, breakfast dining, a liquor store, Stop & Shop, a bakery for coffee and fresh croissants & cinnamon rolls and so much more!
Just under 75 miles from Boston (and Logan Airport). 4 - 5 miles from Hyannis (and the ferry to the islands!) and a short drive to Dennis, Harwich & Chatham!
- Suitability:
- Long-term Renters Welcome
- children welcome
- non smoking only
- pets not allowed
- suitable for elderly or infirm
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A P Landscaping & Tree Service
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Population age 60-64 384 Female population 3,078 Female population age 40-44 204 Family households with no husband 281 Households with residents over age 65 747


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Junk Food Swaps for Every Craving
Give your biggest diet saboteurs a healthy makeover with these ideas from Molly Morgan, R.D., owner of Creative Nutrition Solutions in Vestal, New York and author of The Skinny Rules.
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Instead of cheesecake...
Try...low-fat Greek yogurt with fresh fruit like blueberries or strawberries and graham cracker crumbles. One cup of Greek yogurt has about 23 grams of protein, which helps build metabolism-boosting muscle.
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Stupid question?
Find a Conversation
|Fri, 01-22-2010 - 5:43pm
Hi all -
Stumbled across the board, read three threads and felt my blood boil, and tried to resist jumping in but couldn't.
In order to ask my (stupid?) question, I am going to have to set aside my knowledge that over one million children die of vaccine preventable diseases each year (http://www.who.int/immunization/newsroom/GID_english.pdf), and no folks, this doesn't include the flu, which kills another 300,000 - 500,000 people a year, including adults; cervical cancer, which kills about 250,000 women annually; meningitis; or any number of other contagious diseases.
My question, to those of you who choose not to vaccinate your children because (I assume) you perceive the threat of immunization to be higher than that of communicable disease (which, again, I am trying to set aside), is - do you expect them never to leave the developed world in their entire lives? Never to travel?
The reason I ask this, is that the diseases that kill those 1.5 million children per year that I mentioned above, the diseases against which you have the luxury of not vaccinating your children because you live in a rich country that has been so successful with its prevention efforts that your risk perception has shifted... those diseases still exist. And setting aside the fact that, yes, there remains only a small risk your children will contract them in the United States, or Canada, or Japan (although still larger than the risk that they will suffer an adverse effect from a vaccine), these diseases aren't only present in the rest of the world, they are COMMON.
And they are very, very dangerous.
Just something to consider.
A note to citizendeux - whose steadfast support of vaccination I find admirable - I've always viewed this as a question of risk perception on the part of the parents. To those living in a society mostly free of communicable disease, the risk of an adverse effect seems much greater (comparatively) than that of their child dying from the measles. I guarantee that the same parent, raising a child in West Africa or South Asia where the relative risk of disease is much higher, would absolutely choose to vaccinate. The parent is simply acting in what he or she believes to be in the child's best interest. Our challenge as public health professionals (or clinicians) is to find better ways to present the evidence to make sure that parents not only know, but UNDERSTAND the real risks of these diseases. I'm not proposing a polio-style propaganda campaign, but perhaps something like better targeting, improved message framing, and interpersonal communication skills training for our providers.


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"Nina is a very strong dress resource, so we decided to focus on the dress category. We also did some research and found that in many photos, the Obama girls are wearing flats. It is still the current fashion, and we thought it would be the best type of style for them. Next year will be [their] first Christmas in the White House. They will need a pair of dazzling holiday shoes. For Sasha, we created a black patent fl at trimmed with satin ribbon and festive holiday ornaments."
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Originally from Orlando, FL, Whit Palmer recently moved from the Hudson Valley of New York to Portland. He comes from a family in the real estate business and has a strong personal interest in design. Whit has traveled all over the world both at leisure and during his tour of duty in the US Navy. He loves photography, art, and books. He spends his free time getting to know his new neighborhood and all of the great places to discover in Maine.
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The Cloak Ox, Night Moves, and more
Cool news from the Totally Gross National Product camp today: The Minneapolis label is getting ready to release the debut EP from Andrew Broder's newest project the Cloak Ox, and the band has already posted three of the EP's six tracks on the web as a preview.
Photo by Nick VlcekWhile it's no secret we are big fans of Andrew Broder here at City Pages we still have a hard time keeping up with the crafty South Minneapolis cat. Since last summer he has played and toured the planet with Oakland's Why?, and also collaborated on a graphic novel with Alan Mo ... More >>
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Photos by Adam BubolzWHY?/Deerhoof June 26, 2010 First Avenue Two Bay-area bands with tight ties (so much so that they even work each others merch table) but disparate sounds rolled through Minneapolis along with the stormy weather on Saturday night, as both Deerhoof and WHY? delivered rousing a ... More >>
Missed seeing Why? in the Mainroom on Saturday night? Here's a chance to catch them in a much more intimate and introspective setting, jamming with Dosh tonight for an improv set in the Turf Club's Clown Lounge. With Fog's Mark Erickson and Andrew Broder recently joining Why? on tour, chances are ... More >>
The former frontman-turned-solo artist plays with Why? this weekend
Andrew Broder joins a rock band (it used to be his)
Andrew Broder has gone from punk rocker to Life Sucks Die crew member to house-party DJ to turntable scientist to Picked to Click poll topper. What comes next?
Politicians get ready to reboot telecommunications law


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Care Home Manager
Our client is a well established national charity that provides housing and care for older people across the UK. Their services include specialist dementia homes, supported living and help at home for thousands of older people. They are looking for an experienced registered manager for their 37 residential service in Plymouth.
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Date Advertised : 07 Feb 2013
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[QUOTE=Warfish;3956429]Quoting to ask Bit again. CR....have a nice day.[/QUOTE]
warfish the short answer is I assume that privacy is basically dead after 9-11... whether it's "legal" or not theres 1000 examples where the US gov't can and will do what it feels is in it's best interest, regardless of privacy. Do I like and agree with that? No it sucks but in the end I would support it cause this is the country we live in.
To be clear black box data is not wireless (unless im missing something) so i don't know that the Gov't could monitor black boxes all day long looking for some dude going 45 in a 40 mph zone. They could probably GPS on it and there might be some transponder info but I assume the full details of what the box is recording has to be physically read... like in a crash situation.
fwiw i do think we will see taxed roads in the future, it's an easy way to tax the rich without calling it such.
[QUOTE=Warfish;3956403]So if there is no right to privacy, would you support the Govt. having no limit (i.e. no court order required) to access that data? For example, having a Govt, database that tracks all your movements at all time with the vehicle?
If there is no right to privacy in activity on a public road, there is hence no right to hide such data from the Govt., or from the public via the usual information request channels.
Would you support the issuance of fines/tickets to all drivers who break speed limits or make turns without signaling, etc., based on this collected data?
Also, perhaps, for "dangerous operation" of any vehicle that does not at that moment meet inspections standards set up by say, a Federal Highway Safety Commission Panel?
Beyond that, you could set up a tax-system for road useage. The system could already track every mile you drive and where, it's a small step to move to generation of a "Useage Tax" to charge each driver (based on last filed income, taxes must be progressive to be fair) for their use of this public resource.
Such a change would certainly make for a slower pace of life, and bolster the coffers of local and state jurisdictions. I do hope you take the time to reply.[/QUOTE]
Insurance companies are going to try this for "pay as you go" insurance policies, so its already happening


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Angela is a wonderful manager and very thoughtful of her customers. She has helped through some personal traumatic times. Very helpful. What a jewel to have.Jennie from Lehigh Acres, FL
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I purchased outside storage so some questions did not apply. I was disappointed in the WIDTH of your outside storage. i have a 37 foot motor home and it was a very tight fit.Joan from Tavernier, FL
the staff at this location was very helpful. The manager seemed the most enjoyable to deal with. She went above and beyond to ensure any problems I may encounter she was there to help me with. luckily there was no issues, although this location is sorely in need of a need truck or have repairs done to the truck they have. It serviced it,s purpose though.James from Lehigh Acres, FL
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Although I will only be a brief period customer the service, access and quality of Uncle Bob's has been excellent.Chris from Cape Coral, FL
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A little bit of order brought to Difara's
- Peter May 17, 2008 08:16 PM
So tonight I brought an out of town friend to Difara and was pleasantly surprised to find a wee bit of order brought to the usual stressful chaos.
As I approached I was shocked and amazed to see what resembled an actual LINE of people waiting to order. No mass crushed against the counter, no pushing to get an elbow down on the tile.
A younger guy I've never seen there before (dark hair and glasses, left handed -- probably one of Dom's sons based on the way they interacted) was taking people's orders and writing them down on a pad: square or round, toppings, to stay or to go, and your initials.
As soon as he had 4 pizzas written down on a sheet he'd tear the sheet off and put it in front of Dom. When Dom had made everything on the sheet, he'd throw it away and put a new sheet in front of Dom.
I have to say, it worked pretty well. Occasionally someone would try to cut the line -- and one woman had her pie swiped a few times because she made the mistake of sitting down, but overall the grumpiness and line-cutting was minimal. I think the sense of order brought by the list took some of the wind out of the sails of the ruder people.
I don't if it will last but it was nice to see the pizza as good as ever yet a bit less chaotic to obtain.
(Oh, and it was a nice Saturday night and we got there at 9pm and got our pizza at 10:15 or so. Well worth the wait as always.)
re: NYJewboy
"TBird, TBird, TBird, where's the love?"
i know, my friend, but the last two treks there were misery. :-(
i was even going to buy a co-op 1.5 blocks away just so i could be that close. and i'm not even jewish!lol
desperate times require desperate measures...
I've seen this a few times but it does not work at all. Her daughter was trying it and while my name was on the list, I can say for a fact that I got my pie well before it came up. I finished eating before most of the other people who were in front of me got their pie.
re: TonyO
I have never seen any fisticuffs, but there are lots of rude and obnoxious types that think they own a share of the place. If one wants to wait it out and not be pushy, then they will have to wait in the back of the line for a longer period of time. It can be compared to driving a car at rush hour on the L.I.E. There is a lot of merging traffic as one drives onto the highway. But at Difara, there is a large traffic jam all the time and there are some big SUV;s behind some real small cars. They want to push you off the road.
re: son of a butcher
Very well stated. I think the traffic could be managed if they had the right "Traffic Agent' A system is only as good as it's implementation and continued enforcement. Based on JF's very honest posting, above, I'm not too optimistic, but maybe it will help a bit. At least it's better than doing nothing. :-}
re: JFores
some dude very knowingly took my pie once, as i stood right next to him. in the end, it's dom who decides who gets the pies when the crowd is heavy and whoever is there with him isn't keeping track well enough. i think he (unintentionally) tends to give it to whomever is pushiest, which is exactly the sort of of thing i really don't like to see.
as i was saying, it was very clear (and stated beforehand by jr.) whose pie was next, but when dom took it out of the oven and told the guy it would be his, he did not refuse it. i didn't want to argue, so i didn't say anything.
re: vvvindaloo
"it was very clear (and stated beforehand by jr.) whose pie was next, but when dom took it out of the oven and told the guy it would be his, he did not refuse it. i didn't want to argue, so i didn't say anything'
See? That's why I cannot go there.I would have pointed out that it was MY pie and then there probably would have been an arguement. I cannot accept unfair practices.
re: vvvindaloo
::Whistles innocently::
re: JFores
re: vvvindaloo
The last time I checked the rule was that you spend 100 years in Purgatory for each line cut at DiFara's.
re: Bob Martinez
JF (AKA: The "Innocent Whistler")
When I read VV's first posting, you were the first person I thought of . lol!
If Bob is correct (And he usually is) You better start packing for really hot weather :-}
re: JFores
Great! I'll have to tell VVV that she can go back to DiFara's w/o fear of the 'Pizza Bandit' :-}
re: ilikepeas
The guy ordering things around is the same glasses wearing dark haired son that has always been there.
Ok, I live really far out in Queens, so I've only been to Difara's twice--and totally loved it each time, but I always pay attention to these animated threads about the trademark chaos/ordering/pushing/frustration etc.
Well, I'm no restaurant manager--and this idea has probably been bandied about before--but wouldn't an really easy solution to this mess/confusion be for them to get one of those 'number' dispensers like they have at busy bakeries? It seems like that would eliminate the 'cutting' problem, and if it's done right, it seems like it would eliminate the mix-up-order problems, too...
re: JRogan
I cannot figure out why they do not do that. I think Dom is just not that concerned about it, and figures that everyone will eventually get their pizza. Dom is concerned with not being rushed, and might think that any system would be like a time clock. He is in control of his actions and nothing, nothing, is going to make him move any faster or in ny other way other than what he wants to do. That's Dom. And that's why his pizza is what it is.
re: NYJewboy
"I cannot figure out why ..."
It's a 1970's Brooklyn thing, I suspect the only reason they changed is because they were scaring away lucrative tourists, or perhaps the kids were threatening to quit, either way. Anyway back when it was a neighborhood place if it was crowded people just left, not workable with people flying in from god knows where.
re: Geo8rge
Actually, I think they changed it because Dom was having trouble remembering the orders. :-/
re: JRogan
It would have to be a little more sophisticated than the simple bakery/deli numbers that control the order of the line. You would need something where the number is tied into the actual food order and the counter guy checks it before giving you the pizza, sort of like Taco Bell.
Seeing some of the behavior in that place you'd probably have a few characters atempting to counterfeit the numbers or work some other scam.
Does anyone know if this new orderly system is still in place? Or was it a one day thing only? Because I''m a Di Fara's regular and I've seen orderly lines there on occasion. And I know enough not to get too excited about it because it's practically a certainty that the usual chaos will return to the joint on my next visit. And if it was a one-day thing, then I don't see the point to this thread. It's all been discussed thoroughly here already, and if we're talking about another one-day exception, well that's further proof that Dom's not changing his order-taking aspects, and the transient sanity that ensued on the OP's visit probably happened in spite of Dom, rather than because of.
re: pizmet
" know enough not to get too excited about it because it's practically a certainty that the usual chaos will return to the joint on my next visit"
Maybe if enough customers made a big deal of how much better/faiirer the system makes the visit, someone will listen and be encouraged to continue the practice. Couldn't hurt :-}
re: pizmet
i know from maggie that it is up to the 'child' on duty with dom...whatever they deem appropriate - order or chaos - that's how it's going to go that particular day.
re: pizmet
"Does anyone know if this new orderly system is still in place? Or was it a one day thing only?"
I saw the same "system" in place mid-April on a Saturday. It appeared to help a lot and allowed Dom to concentrate on the production. Pretty smooth except for a few guys pushing ahead to try and get slices. Still, for one reason or another I didn't get the grated cheese on top of the take-out pie. Good thing I looked in the box before leaving; the young man at the counter added it on. The round pie with mushrooms was excellent.
re: gnocchi
I have also at times not gotten my grated cheese. One must never be shy about mentioning it. That goes for basil and oil too.
re: NYJewboy
If this keeps up, it's only a matter of time before the cheese, and then the sauce are forgotten and before you know it, you'll be buying a crust in a box, :-}
re: Tay
well, i broke down and broke my own self imposed boycott. 5 of us wine posters from ebob and two significant others met this morning and shared some prosecco & rose with 2 round cheese pies and 1 square cheese pie. there was not much of a line & ordering went perfect. omg, i lived a morning in dom heaven. there is simply no better breakfast food on the planet! :-)
Finally took a day off from work and made it down there for the first time today, around 1:30. There was definitely a system -- a woman in glasses was taking orders on a pad, there was a line, and the place had the atmosphere of a church -- everyone quiet, hopeful and orderly.
When we first got there, there was actually some confusion with some customers over whose pie was whose, but it was quickly and calmly resolved in an extremely friendly manner.
Needless to say the pie was really incredible, and we waited less than 20 minutes.
re: feedcari
Hail Dom Jesus Batman DiMarco!!!!
re: NYJewboy
Again regarding the line system, I managed to get a pie in 20 minutes this last Sat and I finished eating before just about everyone who had arrived before me. If you tell Dom your order instead of getting put on the list it moves a looot faster.
re: JFores
Sheeesh! That's the whole problem! When you "Regs" come in and circumvent the system, those ahead of you who are waiting their turn are pushed back on the line. It's just not a cool way to go.
In essence, by cutting the line, you received someone else's pie.
re: NYJewboy
I SO knew you'd respond to my posting lolol! ...Of course you'd let me cut in front of you. You'd then proceed to cut in front of everyone!... You "Regs" are totally Incorrigible...:-}
Tsk, Tsk, Tsk. Have I taught you nothing, Grasshopper?. It's just wrong to circumvent whatever attempt at fairness and order
is being attempted. As much as you adore, idolize and otherwise, worship him, Mr DiMarco should refuse to take your (and everyone else's) order. He should refer you to "The List Maker" and should not sabotage the fragile, albeit obviously problematic, system being attempted. No one should be above the 'Law of the List.' No matter how (in)famous you happen to be.:
If it's not fair to everyone, it's not fair to anyone
re: groover808
Go in the afternoon, be aggressive on line (within reason), IMO don't get toppings, try the SQUARE
re: groover808
Go around 2pm-4pm on a week day, get a square slice while you wait if possible, order either a regular pie or a round with garlic, ORDER THE SECOND THAT YOU GET THERE, go STRAIGHT to the counter, order with either Dom or his son, and STAY at that counter. Occasionally ask Dom if the pie he's working on is your's and it might magically become your's. There is no line; only a mob of other people who want that pizza just as bad, but 9/10 times don't know how to even order. The number of out of towners and people from the city I've been seeing leaning against the drink machines and thinking that they have to wait until some sort of line dwindles down to order lately is amazing. You have to order immediately and even if you have moral issues about aggressively tackling the line (I'm going to hell but I could write a handbook to aggressive Di Fara ordering and no one has ever raised an issue with me), you still need to order the second you get there.
re: JFores
OMG, went tonight at around 5:30ish. Luckily there were only a few others there so I ordered with Dom and he started masterfully working on my pizza. Friend and I ordered a square pie with porcini mushroom, red onion, and garlic (she's vegetarian) so slim chance of anyone trying to swipe it. By the time we ordered and got some air outside (it's scorching today), there was a sizeable crowd. But I can say today there was no order, just Dom working away and ppl telling him their orders.
Pizza was fantastic, told my friend that phrase about sometimes chocolate being better than sex, well I think Di Fara's pizza can claim the same. Dom is the sweetest guy who truly loves making quality stuff. I have another week and a half in NY, if I don't make it to any other pizza joint, I will still be content that I had the best!
re: groover808
This was inspired and inspiring groover808. Hail Dom Jesus Batman DiMarco.
re: NYJewboy
Amen my friend.
re: JFores
I agree with JFores' suggestion about the hours. I happened to be in the neighborhood yesterday at 4:15, walked right in and got a square slice within one minute! Halleliuah!!!!!!!!!


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Chippewa Valley air show canceled after Blue Angels grounded
Organizers have canceled an air show planned in western Wisconsin after federal budget cuts grounded the U.S. Navy's Blue Angels.
The Blue Angels were to headline the Chippewa Valley Air Show this September. But the military grounded its jet and demonstration teams because of automatic federal budget cuts.
Matt Hill, chief operating officer for the Chippewa Valley Council of the Boy Scouts of America, said the decision to cancel the air show was made at a meeting Tuesday night. The organization planned to operate the event at the Chippewa Valley Regional Airport.
Copyright 2013 by Channel 3000. The Associated Press contributed to this report. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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