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Best Caribbean in Toronto?
- munchieHK Apr 22, 2010 01:05 PM
I love Caribbean food. Sorry, let me qualify that:: I love GOOD Caribbean food. Since I have been in TO I have had a lot of BAD Caribbean food. I have had a couple of very good meals, but most have been meh.
What is your favourite Carib joint? It can be Jamaican, Guyanese, Trinidadian...you name it, but it must be great.
I don't mean fancy, which runs completely counter to the cuisine and the culture. I mean good, spicy, stick to your ribs soul food. Served in a friendly, laid back place is a bonus.
Well...I'm not sure if this would qualify as GREAT...but this to me, is good solid food and very enjoyable. It's Guyanese...love their boneless chicken roti...great spicing.
Caribbean Palms Restaurant
Don Mills Rd. north of Overlea in the Flemingdon Park Plaza.
Caribbean Palms
747 Don Mills Rd, Toronto, ON M3C1T2, CA
Jerk King at Morningside and Kingston, in the No Frills plaza. Their jerk pork would make me push your mama down a flight of stairs! They have decent stew beef and their jerk chicken is really good too, but the pork is IT. They do really good patties too, homemade.
Jerk King
2079 Lawrence Ave W, Toronto, ON M9N1H7, CA
re: jaedalaurez
im in there area about twice a month and never knew it was there. I'm going to give it a try.
I really cannot quantify what "best" is exactly and can only make recommendations for what I like. However, for years I'm still searching for the "perfect" roti and great Caribbean food in the GTA myself.
Just a few hours ago, I had a goat roti at Island Foods at the King/Dufferin area. It cost $6.25 plus taxes coming to a total of $7.06. Anyway, the establishment is "safe" in my opinion of good Caribbean food. They are Trinidadian and I definitely feel they are better than Ali's another Trinidadian fast food place in the Parkdale area on Queen West and Lansdowne area. Island Foods is better than Ali's, The Roti Lady (Indo-Guyanese) and Bacchus (Afro-Guyanese) all in the Parkdale area.
My all-time fav Caribbean joint used to be the Mr.Jerk right at the heart of downtown located at Yonge/Dundas owned by a Chinese man from Jamaica with the accent too. LOL That store has been closed for years, but the other franchises such as the stores at Wellesley near Sherbourne and the other shop up north at the Peanut Gallery along Don Mills Rd. just aren't as good as my favorite Irie hole-in-the-wall.
I've also tried Caribbean Palms and think they are okay as well. In all honesty, I've tried lots and lots of different places in search of the best Caribbean food in the city.
My quest continues for both the best Caribbean food and fish & chips in the city. Two very different cuisines, but I have yet to be fully satisfied by either so far. The very reason for this is because Toronto has just too many choices when it comes to variety and personal taste.
Caribbean Palms
747 Don Mills Rd, Toronto, ON M3C1T2, CA
re: YummyYummy
Noticed The Dish provided the calorie lowdown for Island Foods boneless chicken roti last month. No wonder I always feel like I need a nap after eating roti. http://www.thestar.com/life/health_we...
Bacchus (Queen & Dufferin), Drupati's (Albion & Islington) and Blue Water (VP & Lawrence) are my favorites for Roti (My wife who is from Trinidad agrees as well)
For Doubles ACR (Lawrence and Midland) is the best you will find IMO
For the best Patty I have tasted outside of Jamaica Randy's at Eglinton and Oakwood is a cant miss. Allans in Peanut Plaza is the runner up.
As far as Jamaican cooked food is concerned, honesty don't bother. No one knows how to do it right in TO. Give the options above a try and see how you like them.
re: Matt H
Second Allan's. Best patty in town. I remember picking them up at Meschino Banana Shop at Caledonia/St Clair long time ago when that was a shop and not just an office.
What's the best downtown Guyanese right now?
I really like the Caribbean Bistro, north of Eglinton on Yonge Street.
The lady who runs it makes her own amazing hot sauce and the doubles and roti are damn good!
What I like about the place is, that if something is not her best that day, she will tell you and guide you on what to order!
Did I mention the hot sauce?
Roti Palace at Bathurst/Bloor is pretty good, one of the better roti places in Toronto.
Bhara Hut is Mississauga is good but be prepared to wait a long time.
Island Foods has to be the worst Caribbean food out there. There curries are watery and their service is very lacking. It is no wonder they shut down the one in The Grange, you had to wait almost half an hour for those slow pokes.
Roti Palace
1845 Finch Ave W, Toronto, ON M3N2V2, CA
re: lululemon
There's only one thing I don't like about the Caribbean Roti Palace and it is the reason I haven't returned in about six months. Sadly, it is this one lady I keep getting who takes my order. Not very friendly and no customer service or people skills whatsoever. Definitely know I'm not the only person who feels this way about her. Pretty sure somebody else mentioned her unfriendly nature in another thread here or was it BLOGTO. LOL
Caribbean Roti Palace
744 Bathurst St, Toronto, ON M5S2R6, CA
I still can't tell you where the best Caribbean joints are exactly, but the Roti Hut on Pitfield Rd. and Mona's Roti on Sheppard east of McCowan are good places in Scarborough. Personally, I can only get to these places when I've convinced a hungry friend of mine to drive to these places since I don't drive and live downtown.
Here's a little secret I wanted to keep to myself, but I'll let it slip out. I'll never say this place is the "best", but I keep returning again and again because it is not too far from where I live. I go to TROPICAL JOE'S a Caribbean fast food take-out and eat-in place at Gerrard Square's food court. Over the years, I've tried probably 50 Caribbean food places locally and abroad, no joke and no other place gives you BIGGER PORTIONS than this place, at affordable prices.
I return again and again for this very reason...TROPICAL JOE's is very generous with their portions and the opposite of the cheapest and most stingy place ISLAND FOODS.
BTW, one of the employees mentioned to me they have another place in Scarborough under a different name just in case there are some Chowhounders interested in trying the taste of TROPICAL JOE's, but don't live near Gerrard Square. If I remember, I'll try to get the name and address of the Scarborough location next time.
Roti Hut
351 Pitfield Rd, Toronto, ON M1S3E5, CA
re: YummyYummy
Yes! Tropical Joe's is probably the best food court food I've ever had. Great jerk chicken, generous portions at amazing prices. We look for excuses to go to the mall just to eat there.
re: Gary
Just came back from Gerrard Square and I probably jinxed it by talking about Tropical Joe's here. Their prices have gone up more or less by $1.00. Used to pay $6.25 for my large goat roti or dinner with rice and peas and now it is $7.25 plus taxes coming to $8.19. :( Anyway, at least the huge portions are still happening. Now I'd better shut up or something may change about that. Hope not! LOL
re: YummyYummy
Had TJ's today and loved it. The Jerk Chicken was excellent and the sides R&P and Chowmein were great too.
re: YummyYummy
I tried tropical joes once. It was amazing. Its too bad i live woodbridge
Absolutely the best I've had is A Taste of the Islands in Newmarket. A small simple place in a strip mall. We've had just about everything on the menu and it's all good. They alternate Saturday's between Akee and Saltfish and Liver and Onions.
re: Davwud
It's gone now. Seems to be a hairdresser.
re: Attknee
Moved to the plaza at Bayview and Mulock. Prices went up too. Food is still great though.
re: Herb
my fave is Shandra's in Mississauga on Eglinton just west of Dixie.
The Goat and OxTail dinner is f'ing Ah-MAZING!!! it's a hole in the wall type place, but the food is tasty as hell. This dinner is about $13.xx and when you're paying this much for food without atmosphere, you know the food is epic!
re: SNACKeR
Don't hurry to Albert's
For 20 years I got my monthly Roti fix at Albert's but in the past few years they have been disappointing as well as expensive.
5-6 weeks ago I went back for old times sake for a take home Roti. It was terrible. About 4 ounces of chicken curry (mostly chickpea and potato) wrapped in a pound of roti skin for about $9!!!
I had been speaking to Albert while one of his people made my Roti and so I phoned back 20 minutes later to register my displeasure, but he had left.
I am aware that Miller's Mess has really screwed up St Clair West and at some stage I will go back to speak to Albert but I will not be buying his rotis until he has made good on the last one.
St Clair Restaurant
69 St Clair St, Chatham, ON N7L3H8, CA
re: sumdumgoy
I have also always found Alberts to be a perfect example of what is wrong with the Jamaican food scene in Toronto. Very mediocre, under spiced, inconsistent and no real burst of flavor that those of us who grew up eating Jamaican food have come to expect. I have never been to a JA Restaurant in TO that has blown me away.
I have alot of family in the Supply side of the West Indian food business in Toronto, and they say the main reason why the food is so mediocre is that Toronto does not have the consistent ingredient trade that cities like NYC and Miami do (For example you can get Pimento Wood Chips in Minnesota of all places, but not in Toronto) so the Chef's and restaurateurs are working at an immediate disadvantage.
The Bakeries on the other hand are great, one of the best cities outside Jamaica for pastries like Patty's, Gizzada and Plantain Tarts, but the cooked food just always falls short.
Another old school favorite of mine from when I lived in the area was RAP's on Eglinton Avenue West just west of Marlee Avenue and east of Oakwood. It was my favorite late night after clubbing take-out place for great Jamaican food.
Do a search on this site if you want to find more info about RAP's here. I know it has been mentioned before.
Never mentioned Albert's because I've only had negative things to say about them. Starting with their overpriced and terrible food. Now Randy's I'd better revisit again because I forgot how great their Jamaican beef patties were.
Now I'm getting nostalgic and really miss being young and living in the "Little Jamaica" area in my early twenties and sticking out like a sore thumb. That was a different lifetime ago! LOL
re: YummyYummy
Always wanted to go to RAPS in late 80's/early 90's because the were advertised continuously on a reggae show that use to air every Sunday night. Never got there though. Was it good? Still Good?
re: YummyYummy
Mainshaw which is almost right beside RAP's is also pretty good.
My favorites are
Randy's at Eglinton & Oakwood - best patties I've ever had
Spence's Bakery - Just a bit east of Randy's. I like their Oil Drum Chicken w poundbread cooked outside on the sidewalk during the summer. I've had Rap's as well but it was so long ago I can't remember what it was like.
Pat's Homestyle - Queen & Bathhurst - some may disagree, but I still love the jerk chicken with oxtail gravy, and that tasty sweet slaw. Hasn't failed me yet
Someone mentioned upthread the Mr. Jerk that used to be on Yonge street, and I have to second that. It was inconsistent, but when it was good it was hands down the best.
I'm still looking for a really good place for curry chicken. Any suggestions?
If you are really into good carribean, and don't mind crowds and LOUD noise: Caribana parade. The best stands are on the south side of the route, west of medieval times.
re: William Taft
Love Pat's Homestyle (beside Gandhi) some of the tastiest food I've had all year. Can't recommend it enough, that man can cook.
re: SocksManly
Do you tend to get the roti or jerk at Pat's?
Brendan Roti Corner @ 345 Bloor St E. has never let me down.
Teekam's Taste @ 1160 Bloor Street West is new and tasty. I grabbed a small veg plate for about $4, tasty okra and squash!
Also, Coconut Grove is decent and cheap near the finance district @ 183 Dundas West.
Coconut Grove
183 Dundas St W, Toronto, ON M5G1C7, CA
Brendan Roti Corner
345 Bloor St E, Toronto, ON M4W3J6, CA
re: madhatt
Brendan's Roti's has let you down by being closed for about six months now. Still don't know if Coconut Grove food is anywhere near as good as when the old owners use to make the food?
Coconut Grove
183 Dundas St W, Toronto, ON M5G1C7, CA
re: YummyYummy
Wow, Brendan's is closed? :( Coconut Grove isn't the best, but it's cheap -- and central.
Went to Teekam's Taste again on Friday - they're becoming my favourite in Toronto. $4 and I had an entire plate of great food! Ask for the homemade hot sauce.
Coconut Grove
183 Dundas St W, Toronto, ON M5G1C7, CA
re: madhatt
I don't want to do this but sorry I have to. I was in Teekam's taste ordering a takeout but noticed that the server was wiping the plate for an eat-in order with the t-shirt that he was wearing , and that too in full view of everyone. I wouldn't go there again.
re: garfield
For take out, i like Mainshaw's at Allen Rd. and Eglinton
re: garfield
Yikes, thanks for telling us. That is just unacceptable. I guess the secret herbs can make you do things like that. :-o
re: foodyDudey
Yikes??? I know tons of people that love this place.
re: garfield
Well as long as it was a clean t-shirt.
re: garfield
Hopefully this was an odd occurance... can't say I've ever had any concerns eating there.
I have been lurking on this site for a while and I wanted to mention a small take out place that IMO has the best jerk chicken in the city, it's called Sansimian at Victoria Park and Sunrise Ave, it's one block south of Victoria Park and Eglinton in a small strip plaza.
It's owned by an older Jamaican lady, the chicken is flavourful and moist and the rice and peas with oxtail gravy on it, is pretty tasty. It's not well known because of the area and the people that frequent it from the closeby government housing, never post online reviews. Also, the owner doesn't seem too friendly unless she knows you but the food is excellent nonetheless.
I tried numerous different jerk chickens all around Toronto and they definitely are one of the best, one place commonly mentioned is the Mr.Jerk at Peanut Plaza which is a favourite of a few posters on this site, it's not even close in comparison.
The best Caribbean food I've had in Toronto is a place whose name I'm unsure of, but it is on the east side of Yonge St, just north of College. For lunch, they also have a $3.99 jerk chicken special, and the line-ups are really long here in the summer so get there for 11:45, because if you get there at 12:15; you'll be waiting outside.
re: MurkyMar
You're referring to Ritz. It's OK, in a pinch.
re: munchieHK
Actually, I quite like the Ritz near Eaton Centre, on Yonge, between dundas and queen.. Awesome jerk chicken, beans and rice.. with gravy..... omnomnom.
I enjoy the meals I get from Michael's in South Etobicoke, on Lakeshore Blvd near 13th Street. I always get stew chicken, rice and peas and the chicken is very moist and flavourful. The rice is also really tasty. The don't need to add gravy tasty........lol. They also have jerk chicken, goat and I think ox tail. They also have fish.....forget the kind. Yummy food.
Bacchus has been a favourite for me for nearly two decades.
I used to eat at Coconut Grove and liked it, but haven't been in several years.
Mr. Jerk was great when I used to live near it, but also haven't been back in years.
Sounds like I should check out Tropical Joe's since I live near Gerrard Square.
Jerk King is the best and I have been to a lot of these restauraunts. The Jerk pork and chicken is dynamite. The fish tea is also stellar!!! I actually like the small shop beside Nicey's Market in North Toronto. The soup at this place is great as well. Have also had excellent ackee and saltfish (although I like my home version better;) I think it is Finch and Vic. Park area. Lastly, I did really enjoy sitting at The Real Jerk all of these years. Food is usually good but it is all about the Red Stripe, the reggae and the irie vibe...I hope the new location has the same feeling.
re: kingkolo
Tropical Joes in Gerrard Square mall is really good.
re: Matt H
I really like Peppers West Indian Restaurant at 3125 Dufferin Street. It is a couple of block north of Lawrence. It is an order at the cash sit at a window counter kind of place. I find the jerk chicken to be great. For $7, the chicken is a leg and thigh cut up with rice and peas and coleslaw. The heat level is just right. It is run by a nice couple and seems to do quite well.
re: Matt H
I've only had the jerk chicken and absolutely loved it. Only problem is I live in Vaughan now so I never have it anymore. I used work a guy who live near Gerrard Square so he would pick it up for us once in while. I would actually even agure it's the best jerk chicken I've tried in toronto made by a restaurant. (as in not by a friend) If they had one even close to Vaughan I'd be hitting it up all the time.
re: Davwud
You know I like you, Davwud, but I have to take exception to that. The best Caribbean food is made by people who have had generations of practice. It can't be well made by a novice kid with a cookbook. Never tell your mother you said that homestyle can be faked.
The best jerk I've had was from Mr. Jerk at Yonge & Dundas. That place has been long gone now, and nothing that I've tried in Toronto comes anywhere close to that. I've been settling for the jerk pork at the Mr. Jerk on Wellesley in Jamestown, but, sadly, it's quite a few notches below what the Yonge/Dundas location was serving.
Right now, the best jerk pork, in my opinion, can be had at Beryl's Pepperpot - 467 Westney Rd. S. in Ajax. (south of Bayly).
The best roti I've ever had is from Roti n Ting at Kingston Rd. & Liverpool. I no longer live in Durham, but, those two places were my fave places to get Roti & Jerk pork.
re: AConACon
You might want to try the Mr Jerk at Lawrence & Keele, one of the owners used to work at the Yonge & Dundas location 20 years ago so he might have replicated what he produced there on Lawrence.
re: fickle
Thanks for the tip fickle! Wow! Has it really been 20 years already? Sheesh!
I'm scratching my head trying to remember the employees there. I think there were two Chinese Jamaicans that worked there. The main guy, a lot of the customers would refer to as Mr. Chin. Not sure if that was his real surname, or just a racial slur on the customers' part, but either way, he didn't seem to take offense to it. There was a black lady and a younger black man there too - I always got a chuckle out of his way of dealing with barking demands from the over-zealous West Indian patrons. They'd be saying: "Put in more meat!" or "Give me more gravy!", and he'd fill the gravy spoon with gravy, bring it close to the styrofoam container (that was already overflowing with rice & peas, jerk pork/chicken, oxtail or stew beef), and pretend to pour it into the container, but it actually went back into the warmer. LOL!
re: AConACon
I've posted in this very thread before and also stated that Mr.Jerk at the Yonge/Dundas location was hands down the best Caribbean food on this planet. No other Mr.Jerk franchise location even came close to matching the Chinese Jamaican owner's taste and quality in food.
I am so curious if this owner did relocate to the Lawrence and Keele location??? I've been in search of this man for years. When I investigate and if indeed it is the same man, I will report back ASAP. From my memory, I believe his name was "Roland" and he wore thick glasses and had a mustache. This Chinese man had the best authentic Jamaican accent ever. I just loved hearing him speak Patois to the black Jamaican customers during lunch hours. LOL
It hasn't been quite 20 years since it disappeared, however it has been many years. The restaurant still existed back in 1998 before the Adidas store and movie theatre in that corner were ever built. God, I miss this place! :(
Mr Jerk
8 Dundas St E, Toronto, ON M5B 2G9
Phone: 416.596.7782
re: YummyYummy
Looking forward to the report back. My favorite location was always the Peanut Plaza one though. One question though, why on earth would he have any different an accent from the "Black" Jamaican customers? We're all from the same place afterall...
re: Matt H
First of all nobody said his accent was different from other Jamaicans. I just found it very cool to hear a Chinese man with a thick Caribbean accent, you don't see it that often in Toronto. LOL
Here's my quick report after visiting this afternoon. Of course, I went there to eat and sample the food. The curry chicken was very good and did not disappoint. I did not try the jerk chicken today because I ate some yesterday at Tropical Joe's. Plus, I was really in the mood of curry chicken so that's what I had for lunch. However, I mostly went to follow the above lead from "fickle" hoping the Chinese Jamaican owner was the same guy. Drum roll...
It was a very busy Saturday afternoon for this hole in the wall restaurant, so the guy running the restaurant only had a quick minute to chat with me as it was busy. Here's the scoop, he is actually the nephew-in-law of this infamous Chinese Jamaican man that I was seeking. His aunt is married to the "Mr.Chin" I was looking for and his first name was Charles not "Roland". My mistake as it has been roughly 15 years since I last saw the man. Now Charles brother also had a Mr.Jerk franchise once at 1552 Eglinton Avenue West. Both brothers are currently no longer associated with any of the 6 Mr.Jerk franchises that exist in the GTA now. Both restaurants that the brothers owned have been closed for a long time.
Here's the bottom line "Mr.Chin" or "Mr.Jerk" or simply Charles moved to the U.S.A. some time ago. He doesn't even live in Toronto anymore according to his nephew-in-law. Well, this is everything I learned in my short conversation with the proprietor of this Mr.Jerk located at Walmart Plaza near Keele and Lawrence.
Now there you have it...A bit of a semi-wild goose chase for my nostalgic and illustrious Mr. Jerk hoping it was the same guy from the Yonge and Dundas location from the 90's, but it was not. :(
re: YummyYummy
Thanks for the update. Sorry your goose chase didn't end the way you wanted but at least you got part of your mystery solved.
I frequent the Keele/Lawrence location for my jerk pork cravings and will enjoy it more now knowing this extra tidbit of history with it ;-)
re: YummyYummy
I guess I have to keep in mind what is regular for some people is rare for others. Being a "non black" Jamaican myself I guess its pretty normal ; )
Thanks for going on this hunt was an interesting read.
re: AConACon
Good news to all you Torontonians that live close to the Beach. Beryl's Pepper Pot has opened a location in Toronto right near Queen & Coxwell. (north west corner, just two stores east of The Tulip Steakhouse). I believe the exact address is 1610 Queen Street East.
Beryl's Jerk Pork is the best I've had since the good ol' days of Charles' Mr. Jerk location at Yonge and Dundas. They just opened up Friday June 7th, and I've already eaten there three times! :)
I haven't had everything on the menu, but, I can tell you the jerk pork, beef and pumpkin soup, red bean soup, and boiled yam, are my favourite items here. Finally, some good Jamaican food minutes from where I live! Now I don't have to drive all the way to Ajax just to get my jerk pork fix!
re: AConACon
Do they have rotis? And if so, do you recommend them? Also, what are their hours? Thanks!
re: Full tummy
Yes they have roti, but, I've never tried it there, so, I can't comment on whether it's good or not. Personally, I think the Guyanese and the Trinis make the best roti, not the Jamaicans. The best roti I've ever had was at Roti n Ting in Pickering. 1298 Kingston Rd (Kingston Rd. & Liverpool Rd.) Everything I've ever eaten at Beryl's has been delicious, so, I would imagine their roti is very good too.
The best roti I've had in Toronto has been from Roti Hut at 351 Pitfiled Rd. (Sheppard & McCowan area)
The hours at Beryl's Pepper Pot (Toronto location) are:
Mon: 11:00 am. - 9:00 pm.
Tue: 11:00 am. - 9:00 pm.
Wed: 11:00 am. - 9:00 pm.
Thu: 11:00 am. - 10:00 pm.
Fri: 11:00 am. - 10:00 pm.
Sat: 8:30 am. - 11:00 pm.
Sun: 9:00 am. - 9:00 pm.
They have a website:
Hope this helps, and if you go to try the Jerk or Roti at either of these places, I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
re: AConACon
Yes, I love Roti Hut, but it's so inconvenient for me. I live reasonably close to the new location of Beryl's, though. I will definitely try it!
re: AConACon
ACon, I'm really glad you posted this and gave us an update here. Good thing, I stumbled on tonight as I haven't browsed this website in quite sometime.
I'm actually very ecstatic about this new Caribbean restaurant and wish I saw this thread before I actually picked up some jerk chicken and a beef roti at Tropical Joe's @Gerrard Square's food court earlier tonight. LOL I live in Leslieville and so it's close by. I would have tried the new Beryl's immediately instead of going to my usual Caribbean place Tropical Joe's in the neighborhood.
Guess, I'll have to wait until this weekend before I taste this new place. Really looking forward to it! I may not be able to wait/resist that long so I'll probably try the jerk pork tomorrow since I already had some roti and jerk chicken earlier tonight. :)
BTW, I just saw the post you left for me on April 2013. Great to hear that you paid a visit to that particular Mr.Jerk franchise after me! ;)
re: AConACon
I now work very close to Roti n Ting and have tried two rotis, vegetable and goat. The vegetable roti was the worst I've ever eaten. It was filled with what seemed like coleslaw without the dressing. The goat, happily, was a normal goat roti. Not the best ever, but quite fine.
re: mariecollins
@Marie Collins - That is surprising to me, as I've eaten there numerous times, and each time it has been fantastic. Mind you, I've never tried either of the items you had the bad experience with. Roti-wise, I've only every tried the chicken and beef varities. They also sell, or at least, used to sell, a smaller version of the standard roti. This was done during their lunch hour time slot, which I believe was something like 11:30 to 2:30) which was perfect for those who found the standard roti to be too big for lunch. I've also had their doubles and polourie (sp) and they were all very good. I've now been living in Toronto for 3 years, so, I don't really go to Roti n Ting anymore (I go to Roti Hut if I have a roti craving), but, I'll have to go there again and see if it's the same quality as I remember.
Perhaps you could try the beef or chicken roti and see how it is?
Sorry to hear your experience was not good. I would not recommend a place without it being warranted, and while my recommendation cant be based on everything they sell, as I haven't tried, nor am in interested in trying, everything they sell, the items I have eaten there on numerous occasions, has always been excellent.
re: AConACon
Thanks for posting this about Pepper Pot. I'll let some friends that live nearby know about Pepper Pot.
Would you travel out of your way (on the TTC) for their roti or jerk?
re: prima
You're welcome.
I've never tried the roti there, so, I'm not really in a position to recommend it. I've had the jerk pork and chicken, as well as the beef and pumpkin soup, the red bean soup and boiled yam, and I thought they were all excellent. Just yesterday, I tried the curry chicken with rice and peas, and it was good as well, but, the jerk pork is my favourite.
Yes, I would go out of my way for their jerk, and I did go out of my way, making the drive to Ajax from Toronto just to get their jerk pork and beef & pumpkin soup. My 6 year old loves the soup and even knows to ask for "lots of dumplings". He has been eating it ever since he was 3!
I hope you and your friends enjoy the food as much as me and my son do.
re: AConACon
Thanks AConACon,
I'll give their jerk a try. The soups sound good.
re: AConACon
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but last visit to Toronto a family member and I ordered some take out from Beryl's in Ajax and it was dreadful. I got the Oxtail and rice n peas and the Oxtail was skimpy, dry (even though I asked for extra gravy) and lacking in flavor. The rice n peas were clumpy and had no coconut milk flavor at all.
I also tried a couple bites of my family members Curry Goat. It was not as bad, but very mediocre and had a very muted flavor like the chef was holding back for some reason.
Are there consistency issues at that location in Ajax? As I said I have only one visit to base this on but after that I do not think I would be rushing back anytime soon.
re: Matt H
@ Matt H
Wow! Doesn't sound like Beryl's at all. I've only ever had one complaint at Beryl's in Ajax, and that was when I ordered the jerk pork, and they gave me the jerk chicken. I didn't notice until I got home. I really had my heart set on the pork, so, I was definitely disappointed, but ate it anyway. It was good, just not what I wanted. By and large, the jerk pork is my favourite item here.
I'm not a big fan of oxtail or goat, so, I don't know what the general consensus is when it comes to Beryl's oxtail and goat dishes.
I think you'll find this sort of experience with a lot of places in general. I always read reviews about places, whether it be Carribean food, or Fish n Chips, or Wings, etc.... and even places that I know I've been to, and the food was amazing, there's always a few people who didn't have the same experience, and I'm not sure if it's just a matter of different criteria of what good fish n chips are, or what good wings taste like, or what a delicious roti should taste like, or perhaps the food really was bad the day these people went there. I guess everyone is entitled to an off day...
I've always had positive experiences at Beryl's, and that's why I continue to go there. I went to that other Carribean place on Queen Street called The Hummingbird, and ordered the Jerk Chicken (they didn't have pork) and I threw it out after one bite! It was nasty. Tasted like the chicken was off. I'm surprised I didn't get sick or anything. It's one thing if food isn't as tasty as it could or should be, but, it's a big no-no to serve bad meat. I will never step foot in that place again.
So Matt H, if it's Oxtail and Goat that you really like, perhaps some of the other members here can post their opinions on whether or not Beryl knows what she's doing when it comes to these two items, and if it's positive, you may want to try it again. If it's not, maybe you could try the jerk pork? :)
re: AConACon
Hey everyone, I have a new favourite place to get my jerk pork fix. In my opinion, this place is even BETTER than Beryl's, and the ironic part, is that I found out about it while talking to a customer when I was wating for my food at Beryl's. The place is called Nun Such Jerk Inc. and they're located at 1180 Kennedy Rd. (just north of Lawrence on the west side, kinda across from where The Brick is. This place is run by Chinese Jamaicans, and IMHO, their food is delicious! I've had the Jerk Chicken, I've had the Oxtail, I've had the Pork, and they're all VERY good. Though, I'm not that big of a fan of oxtail. I've had their Chicken soup, as well as their beef soup, and they're also equally delicious. If you're ever in the area, I suggest you try it out, I've gone about 4 times so far, and each time, all I can think about is that I'm glad I started up a conversation with that guy in Beryl's who told me about this place!
re: AConACon
#68 on the Scarborough Hit Parade.
re: garfield
What do you like best at Caribbean Bistro lately? I remember liking their roti and pholourie, but I haven't been for a few years.
re: garfield
No worries, garfield. Good to hear their doubles are still good.
Roti - I was recently informed of a place in Scarborough that has very good Roti. I tried it out, and it was very good, though, they did mess up my order. LOL!
The place is called Roti Hut, and they're at 351 Pitfield. Which is basically Pitfield & McCowan. (major intersection is Sheppard & McCowan)
I would rank this place #2 for roti out of all the places I have tried. #1 would still be Roti n Ting in Pickering. If you haven't tried Roti n Ting, I would highly recommend it. It is absolutely delicious!
Roti n Ting is located at 1298 Kingston Rd., which is the northeast corner of Kingston Rd. & Liverpool. It's a small place, with just one, or maybe two tables. It has been years since I have been there last, but the Trinidadian women running the place there know their roti, and are tops on my list.
Jerk Pork - Best jerk pork I've ever had is still the one that no longer exists. Charles's Mr. Jerk franchise that was located at Yonge & Dundas was the best for me! Sadly it is gone, and as one of the posters here (YummyYummy) determined, he is gone too, having moved to the US. :( There is hope still though, as that same poster discovered a relative of his (nephew in law, I believe) is running the Mr. Jerk store at Lawrence & Keele. I went there a few weeks ago, but, as luck would have it, my visit coincided with their relocation (apparently, they're moving just a few doors down from where they once were) so, I didn't get to try this location's jerk pork yet. :(
I did try the jerk pork at this Peanut Plaza mall, and it was okay. Nothing I would highly recommend to anyone here. The server was very friendly, but the jerk was average.
As I've mentioned in an earlier post, the best jerk I've had, post "Mr. Jerk at Dundas & Yonge days" would be the jerk at Beryl's Pepperpot in Ajax. In my opinion, it rivals Charles's jerk pork. The place is located on Westney Road south of Bayly in a somewhat deserted strip mall. The exact address is 467 Westney Street South, and it's in the same mall as Silver Carpet & Rugs. The beef & pumpkin soup is also excellent here, and they also have food in the form of boiled yam, dumpling & banana. I believe Beryl has also opened a location in Oshawa.
I tried the Jerk Joint just last week, which is located at 238 Queen Street West, and it was good. The female employee seemed somewhat disorganized but was quite friendly. It was a bit of a wait to get my food, as they don't really have the food sitting in a heated case or anything, but, with so few good jerk places around, I don't mind waiting for something that's even average to good, like this place was. I'll want to try it again soon just to make sure my experience wasn't a one-off, as someone else here posted quite a rave review of this place.
Jerk Chicken - This is not something I prefer to order very often, but, when jerk pork is not available, I usually defer to this. Two places that I have had jerk chicken from are the two locations of Ritz on Yonge St. One is at Yonge & Shuter (211 Yonge St.) and the other is at Yonge & College (450 Yonge St.). I find both to be equally good, though, I think I prefer the one at Yonge & College.
A new place I tried out when I was testing the roti at Roti Hut over at 351 Pitfield, is a place called Island Spice. It's literally 5 stores over from Roti Hut. I went there for jerk pork, as I was told they had jerk pork there, but, sadly, they did not. So, I settled for the jerk chicken, and it was delicious! So, if you're looking for a place to try jerk chicken, and you haven't tried Island Spice yet, I'd recommend it. It was my first time there, and I felt it was very good.
@YummyYummy - Thanks for finding out that information on Charles and his Mr. Jerk franchise.
If you're looking for great fish n chips, I would recommend the following places:
Olde Yorke fish n chips at 96 Laird (Laird S of Eglinton)
Kingsway fish n chips at 3060 Bloor St. W (Bloor W of Royal York)
Off the Hook fish n chips at 749 Broadview Ave. (Broadview S of Danforth on the east side)
Sun Crisp fish n chips at 2047 Weston Rd. (Weston Rd. N of Lawrence).
re: AConACon
Funny, whenever I'm at the Roti Hut I always wonder if that place like 3 stores down is any good. Maybe Ill try it. I'm also curious to see what the jerk chicken at roti hut is like but I never get it as Im always there to get roti...lol
I'm not sure if this is relevant, but what the heck. I just came back from a week in Jamaica, and one of the things I wanted to try was authentic Jerk (pork and chicken). I did my research and found a place called Scotchie's, which is supposed to be one of the best places for Jerk on the island.
I have to say, I was pretty underwhelmed. Yes there was a nice smokiness to the meat (it was cooked right over pimento wood branches), but the chicken was bone dry, the pork less so but clearly inferior cuts of pork were used because half of my serving was either gristle or pure fat that was not edible. The jerk seasoning was almost non-existent, and what little was there was completely overwhelmed by the scotch bonnet hot sauce. Loved the festival and sweet potato though.
Anyways, I guess it opened my eyes to the reality of what "real jerk is" - its nothing!
(flame suit on :-) )
re: bobbob911
I guess the question should be, which Scotchies did you go to? (There are three locations) and they vary as far as quality is concerned.
Personally I eat at the Ochie location quite often and have had the opposite experience to you. It is definitely one of the best if not the best Jerk spot on the Island.
re: Matt H
Ochie is where I went - we were staying in Runaway Bay.
Don't get me wrong, it was fairly tasty, in the same way all bbq is at least fairly tasty (meat+fire=yum). But IMO there was nothing exceptional about it.
re: bobbob911
I ate a lot of unresearched, prechowhound jerk in Jamaica and I did find that especially later at night you would sometimes get meat that had been on the grill too long. Never experienced underseasonig however, quite the opposite. I do find generally in the Caribbean that meat might be overdone and not great quality by our expectations (ok now I am flame worthy... Maybe it is actually better quality, super naturally raised etc but not the same as what we are used to here).
re: catherine88
And the only place I've seen bammy bread. So yummy.
re: catherine88
Do you recommend eating in? What are the rotis like?
re: Full tummy
Definitely eat in, as long as you're ok with being on island time :-) very authentic that way. I haven't tried any rotis there.
re: catherine88
Ok, thanks!


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Definitions for overfillˌoʊ vərˈfɪl
This page provides all possible meanings and translations of the word overfill
Random House Webster's College Dictionary
o•ver•fillˌoʊ vərˈfɪl(v.t.)
to fill too full, so as to cause overflowing.
(v.i.)to become too full.
Origin of overfill:
Princeton's WordNet
fill beyond capacity
"overfill the baskets"
An instance of overfilling.
To fill beyond capacity or beyond what is appropriate.
Origin: From *, oferfullen, from oferfyllan, equivalent to . Cognate with overfullen, überfüllen, overfylde, överfylla.
In telecommunications, overfill is the condition that prevails when the numerical aperture or the beam diameter of an optical source, such as a laser, light-emitting diode, or optical fiber, exceeds that of the driven element, e.g. an optical fiber core. In optical communications testing, overfill in both numerical aperture and mean diameter is usually required. In polygonal mirror scanners, an overfilled type is one which uses each mirror facet at least in one dimension completely.
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Some believe the world will end on December 21,2012. We found the top cities to visit before the end of the world.
And if it doesn't end, they're great places to welcome 2013!
Where would you go?
You can start your search on Tripping, where you can search top vacation rental sites at once!


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The everlasting battle of coupling more and more UV power into the DMD and project the UV power onto the PCB resin demands a high focus from our engineers to keep ahead!
Visitech's system for high end rapid manufacturing / 3D printing - The LUXBEAM Rapid System - LRS has been completed with a new Projection lens.
The LRS is optimized for medical and dental applications. The motion / scrolling capability has large advantages compared to other 3D printer systems based on DLP technology.
Visitech is proud to announce having received an all time high order income for our LUXBEAM product line within a short period of time. Our LUXBEAM series has proven to be reliable and performs with the added value that was intended. This has been a key success factor for our customers and we are happy to be a good partner to our customer to our mutual benefit.
The LUXBEAM Lithography System – LLS prints 10 um features and 20/20 um line/space.
The LLS is capable of printing features down to 10um, already showing excellent results in printing PCB or touchscreen artwork with 20 / 20 um Line / Space. The requirement for thinner lines is increasing every day.
Visitech exhibited at the Productronica show in Munich this year. The "hyped issue" in the PCB market now is Direct imaging Printing. Our LUXBEAM Lithography System – LLS for direct imaging with 30/30 um lines / space and very high throughput did get a lot of attention.
We have seen continuous increase in the LED output the last 30 years, so also for the UV LEDs that have been on the market for some time now.
Our newest set up of combined LED UV light source installed in our LUXBEAM Lithography System - LLS - has been measured to give close to 3W UV power output on the exposed media.


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The following is from NOLA.com:
"According to St. Charles Parish Sheriff Greg Champagne, Arceneaux had gathered with friends at a home on Murray Hill Drive to watch the pay-per-view event "Wrestlemania 28″ on television when he and a 14-year-old cousin began to wrestle on an inflated mattress on the floor. The juvenile, who is 5 feet, 6 inches tall and weighs 110 pounds, placed his arm around the neck of Arceneaux, who was 5 feet, 10 inches tall and weighed 220 pounds, in a move commonly known as a "rear naked choke hold" for 30 to 40 seconds.
Witnesses reported that Arceneaux said he would not give up or "tap out."
But at some point, someone noticed that Arceneaux was turning blue and told the youngster to release the hold. When he did, witnesses realized that Arceneaux had stopped breathing and dialed 911, shortly after 10 p.m.
Arceneaux's girlfriend tried to revive him with CPR. He was transported to St. Charles Parish Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
Champagne said the investigation is continuing. No arrests have been made."


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Welcome to a life of mooching, meetings, and trying not to get caught making out with your aides.
Miami-native turned internet scourge Perez Hilton will be back in town this weekend while hosting two different events to promote his new children's book. Apparently there are still people out there who want to meet Perez Hilton?Anyway, the Belen Jesuit grad also unleashed his latest website to t ... More >>
Bedrooms and Hallways


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Assemblyman Tom McKevitt hosted his 5th annual Women of Distinction event recently at the Albertson VFW. With over 200 guests in attendance including former recipients of the award, family, friends, and this year's honorees, the event was a community-wide success, noted McKevitt.
"With the outpouring of support for these women in the community it is obvious that we are so fortunate to call them our friends and neighbors," said McKevitt. "These women represent some of the most courageous and accomplished individuals in our state and nation. Taken together, their achievements and dedication have resulted in the continuous improvement of our quality of life and an enlargement of our sense of community here on Long Island."
Further, the board allocated the following funds:
$1,128,834 to the Workers Compensation Reserve Fund.
$948,977 to the Unemployment Insurance Reserve Fund.
$221,043 to the Employees Retirement Contribution Reserve Fund.
The Cellini Lodge #2206, Order Sons of Italy in America, located in New Hyde Park, will hold its Annual Italian Festival to start on August 24 through August 28 at Michael J. Tully Park, 1801 Evergreen Avenue (off Denton Avenue) in New Hyde Park.
The hours of the festival will be: Thursday and Friday from 6 to 11 p.m., Saturday from 3 to 11 p.m. and Sunday from 3 to 10 p.m. Admission is $1 and children under 8 years are free.
At the last meeting of the New Hyde Park/Garden City Park School Board, Dr. Raymond Bredur was appointed by the board as Director of Pupil Personnel Services.
At the outset of the meeting Board President Ernie Gentile called for any comments from the public.
A resident asked if the inquiry she had made at the last meeting regarding the moving of Special Education students from place to place had been resolved.
Last Monday, during a fierce thunder and lightening storm, hail plummeted in New Hyde Park and surrounding areas, destroying the windshields of many cars.
Along with the shattered windshields, residents also experienced a numerous amount of small dings in their cars the size of the rapidly falling hailstones.
Hosted by the Long Island GLBT Services Network, many donors made the complete event possible, from the venue and services of the Carlyle on the Green, to Andrew Scott Events and Floral, Top Tiers cakes by Jason Ellis, All Star Limousine Service, Ltd., Todd Barrie Music & Entertainment, and JoVon Photography.
Prior to the last New Hyde Park Village Board meeting, the village board held a hearing to determine what exactly is designated as a "loading zone."
According to Schedule XX, the following locations are designated as loading zones:
Second Avenue-north-from a point 94 feet west of South 5th Street Westerly 71 feet to a point 37 feet West of South 4th Street,
Brooklyn Avenue: North from Cherry Lane to a point 100 feet east thereof.
"The development of the Hub is critically important to the Nassau County economy," Nassau County Comptroller George Maragos said at a July 21 press conference. "It currently supports hundreds of jobs and has the potential to create thousands of construction jobs and permanent jobs as well as increase tax revenues."
Maragos said that he conducted a review to determine the economic feasibility of the current proposal to develop the Nassau Hub and retain the NY Islanders hockey team. At this point in time, he said, a comprehensive analysis cannot be completed as the lease agreement with the Islanders is still under negotiation and several significant terms have yet to be resolved such as revenue sharing, revenue guarantees, cost overrun protections and the Islanders' commitment to remain in Nassau County.
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Author: Mandy Young
2014 Herb Resistance Summit
Attend the 2014 Herbicide Resistance Summit from home.
Extension Holding Free Grazing and Cover Crops Workshop
Attend a free workshop offered by MU Extension and Lincoln University Cooperative Extension to learn about all season grazing with cover crops.
New Phone App for Hunters
Hunting permits can now be purchased on your smartphone.
Simplifying Soybean Genetics
Pick Your Bean Day to feature hands-on demonstrations on science of soybean breeding
Secure Your Assistance by September 30th
Livestock producers are being encouraged to sign up for Livestock Forage Disaster Program (LFP) by the end of the month.
Final Hearings for Comments on Grain Belt Express
The Missouri Public Service Commission will hold four final hearings in reference to the highly controversial Grain Belt Express.
USDA Unveils New Stamp
Four new postage stamps honor farmers markets and farmers.
Consumers Could Face Higher Milk Prices
Missouri dairy farmers are urging lawmakers to override Governor Jay Nixon's veto of legislation authorizing financial incentives for their industry.
Boone County Commissioners Meet Tuesday
Boone County commissioners proposed budget revision to cover legal costs.


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In support for the release of the members of the feminist performance Art group Pussy Riot; Maria Alekhina and Nadezhda Tolokonnikova.


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There's A Dragon Downstairs
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Authors: McKay, Hilary
Title: There's a dragon downstairs
Publisher: New York : Margaret K. McElderry Books, c2005
Edition: 1st U.S. ed
Characteristics: 1 v. (unpaged.) :,col. ill. ;,22 x 24 cm
Summary: Although she is afraid, Sophie is determined to confront the dragon that she thinks she hears downstairs at night.
Additional Contributors:
Alternate Title: There is a dragon downstairs
Statement of Responsibility: Hilary McKay ; illustrated by Amanda Harvey
Subject Headings: Cats Fiction Bedtime Fiction Fear of the dark Fiction
Topical Term: Cats
Fear of the dark
Fear of the dark
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Biology 103
2000 Third Web Report
On Serendip
It is my intention in the final chapter of my biology and technology trilogy to examine the concepts referred to as Genetics, Nanotechnology and Robots (GNR) in an evolutionary context, albeit to do so in a less formal and more personal manner than the preceding papers. What follows is a bit of the how and why I have wanted to know about these technologies and much of what led me to conclude that the ramifications of GNR will have consequences far beyond human intentions.
Perhaps my fascination and comfort level with concepts such as artificial and alien intelligences and interspecies interactions stems from my life-long status as a science fiction reader. I spent my childhood believing that just around the corner there would be machines that could impart fabulous knowledge directly into our brains, such as how to read, like in Isaac Asimovĺs short story The Profession. My preoccupation began as a preliterate youngster. My grandfather used to read to me from Asimovĺs late 50ĺs collection I Robot. Iĺd try to imagine what it would be like when robots were part of peopleĺs everyday lives. Any trepidation was, of course, tempered by the belief that when the day came that in reality, just like in the fiction, other forms of intelligence would also be governed by Asimovĺs three laws:
1. A robot may not injure a human being, or through inaction allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
Not coincidently, long before biological terms had any place in my vocabulary, those concepts had touched my consciousness. They too had entered by way of science fiction. As a teen and young adult I read feminist science fiction of other worlds, where meiosis could occur even when the diploids were of the same gender, as in Joanna Russĺs classic 1970ĺs novel The Female Man (2).
During the 1980ĺs I alternated between technologically enhanced (or were they depleted) worlds, such as the cyber-punk novel Neuromancer (3), and David Brinĺs Uplift novels (4), which dealt with the consequences to humanity of helping other species to achieve sentience. Throughout the decades, I also visited and revisited famous sentient science fiction computers, such as Heinleinĺs Mike and Dora (5) and Clarkĺs infamous Hal 9000 (6).
And I took a little detour in the 90ĺs and hoped I wasnĺt recognized in the New Age/Spiritually sections. I scared myself a little as the century drew to a close when my literary choices took a curious turn to volumes that were still considered technological and speculative, but no longer classified as fiction.
I found myself in the engineering section on occasions other than when I was looking for my husband. It was K. Eric Drexlerĺs 1986 book The Engines of Creation (7) that led me there. I suppose it was only a short distance from there to the computer/technology section, but for me it was a foray into yet another alien territory. Leading me there were books that mused about souls and interconnectedness but were certainly not new age or spiritual tomes. It was there among the programming books that Ray Kurzweilĺs The Age of Spiritual Machines (8) was prominently displayed. And those who were buying it did not appear to be seeking anonymity.
Then, shortly after I read Kurzweilĺs book, some strange things began happening. One day, for example, I found myself reading (of my own volition) one of my husbandĺs computer magazines. The Wired April 2000 issue caught my eye with an article that heavily referenced Kurzweil. It was entitled Why the Future Doesn't Need Us (9), and it was there that I first encountered Sun-Microsystems co-founder Bill Joy lamenting:
I may be working to create tools, which will enable the construction of the technology that may replace our species.
Then all of a sudden Joy was ubiquitous and having realized that he wasnĺt complaining about the post industrial revolution job market, I was compelled to read the book that he claimed would explain why computer technologies would mean the end of humanity. The result of having done so is that, for almost a year, Iĺve been agonizing over the concepts presented in George Dysonĺs Darwin Among the Machines: The Evolution of Global Intelligence (10). The library classifies it as artificial life/artificial intelligence and also as neural networks/computer science. I didnĺt get it at all, but I have been determined to try it again. After all, Dysonĺs talking about biology, (Darwin, evolution and such) thus raising my hopes that all I need is just some more basic science.
Therefore, it has been my sincere hope that if I put to use some of the biological concepts that I learned this semester, perhaps Iĺll be able to reconcile my ingrained fiction inspired perspectives, and spiritual wonderings, along with the technological and biological transitions that Drexler, Kurzweil and Dyson insist are connected and imminent. And maybe too, Iĺll figure out why I find Bill Joy so whinny.
Some of the concepts gave me no trouble at all. I quite agree with Eric Drexler (the undisputed expert and leading thinker with regard to nanotechnology) that humans are biochauvinists (11). Perhaps it is innate, but nonetheless we are extraordinarily prejudiced with regard to the superiority of biological life forms, particularly ourselves. Historically, we humans have privileged ourselves as standing at the pinnacle of evolution. However, in order to help people keep this tendency in check, and to assist the public in maintaining a realistic biological perspective, I am considering designing a set of biologically inspired bumper stickers, complete with options for optimists, pessimists and equivocating pragmatists. They will read, ôNegative Selection is Also Good,ö ôNaturally, Iĺve Been Selected,ö ôEvolution Happensö and ôEvolution: You Canĺt be Beat It.ö
Although it may not be immediately recognized as such, one of the stated goals of genetic and nano-research actually is to facilitate evolutionary change: i.e. to modify the gene pool. And ostensibly the motivations for GNR technologies are to improve human life (we always put ourselves at the top of the list). Several obvious (and intended as beneficial) examples of both of the above concepts are mapping and repairing of the genes implicated in mental illness, cancer and other such heritable diseases. As with all evolutionary changes (in this case is negative selection) will begin with a few isolated individuals. But unlike the usual mechanisms behind natural selection, (positive or negative) in this instance individuals will self-select. An example of someone who might self-select could be me. In the near future when it will be probable for the genes responsible for bipolar disorder (which I am known to possess) to be correctable through nanotechnology, I just might do so. And if such a modification were to occur, it would be morphological and mutagenic because it would change both my characteristics and my existing DNA. However, such a change would not have any potential evolutionary repercussions, as it is highly unlikely that I would reproduce beyond my three existing offspring. But if my offspring were to modify their inherited, potentially bi-polar causing genes, they would also be instituting a potential modification of phenotype as well as a morphological change. With such a modification they would also be prevented from manifesting the disease and in that case the change would be heritable; they would not pass bipolar causing genes to their offspring. But this still would not be an evolutionary change. Bipolar disorder would still exist in the population at large. However, if many of those who carry such genes had them modified (and those who did posses the genes did not reproduce) then bipolar causing genes would no longer be entering into the gene pool and over time an evolutionary change will occur as this disease is eliminated from the entire population. One of the promises of genetic and nanotechnology is to facilitate a lot of this type of evolutionary negative selection and thus eliminate many of diseases that have long plagued humans.
Drexler and the other nanotechnologists offer more tempting morphological possibilities, such as those that will be realized by re-enforcing and repairing aged or broken body parts or cells through the use of nanomachines. These changes too may or may not be heritable. Nano-enhanced sixty years olds probably will look like twenty year olds and might have the strength of a sumo wrestler, but because these types of changes probably will affect only a few self-selected individuals, there would be little impact upon the human population as a whole. But if Drexler is correct (12) and nanomachines do function as biological assemblers behaving like ribosomes within cells, theyĺll modify the cellĺs DNA. This newly recoding DNA would then reproduce itself and potentially allow the genes that turn sixty year olds into twenty year olds to become heritable alleles. And if, over time, many individuals were to pass along such alleles, it would be an evolutionary event, as such positive and planned mutations made their way into the gene pool.
There is also the promise of morphological, and again perhaps heritable, changes to brain capabilities for humans, through the use of nano-sized computers composed of proteins implanted within the brain cells. All of the aforementioned would be micro evolutionary. And the accumulation of many of these types of occurrences would be macro-evolutionary.
In the short term, humans might believe that they were in charge. The elimination of disease, infirmity and suffering would seem wonderful, and prove irresistible. However, their choices are likely to also precipitate another type of macro-evolutionary event, speciation (the formation of two or more species from the division of an existing species (13)). Genetic modifications would begin with the best of intentions, with populations willingly becoming modified or enhanced. People might even choose traits for specific professions or geographic locales. But the forces of evil might also have access to such technologies. And biological nano-weapons that could target living beings with specific genetic traits neednĺt be our only nightmare-inducing scenario. Repressive regimes could create or exploit speciation, perhaps by producing or enslaving a race of modified drones to serve the nano-enhanced. (Racism could effortlessly provide a similar outcome.) There really is no need to continue with scenarios already fully fleshed out in my science fiction collection and in Bill Joyĺs prognostications. But in order to understand that such scenarios are not unusual in evolutionary terms, one need only to look at human history, examine fossil records, or observe the living things all around us. At quick look at the insect world, or thinking about how a bacterial invasion can modify or decimate entire populations, species or ecosystems is succinctly illustrative of the fact that at best humans can influence but never control evolution. Evolutionary processes will continue, so why shouldnĺt we proceed, even against Mr. Joyĺs unscientific advice:
The only realistic alternative I see is relinquishment: to limit development of the technologies that are too dangerous, by limiting our pursuit of certain kinds of knowledge. (9)
The reality is that we canĺt help but proceed. Ray Kurzweil contends that technology is also an evolutionary process, replete with a history, in the form of computer code that replicates, as does the ultimate model of replication, DNA. In less than 100 years we have seen technologies evolve at an unprecedented rate. Computer technologies (designed by humans) used to create increasingly complex self-replicating code, which allows for increasingly greater computer intelligence, which in turn allows computer technologies to be further used to design machines of still greater capabilities to be used inside and outside of biological systems.
But evolutionary acceleration is not just technological. The pace of biological evolution has increased exponentially. It took billions of years to go from single celled organisms to multi-cellular life forms. The pace quickened to millions of years, to get from primates to humanoids. And finally, only hundreds of thousands of years separated the earliest humanoids from Homo sapiens (14).
Kurzweil is a pretty credible guy, a highly successful inventor with an extraordinary record of predicting future technological events (see his technological time line (15)). Which leads me to believe that it is more than my science fiction warped perspective that allows me to find great validity in the following two Kurzweil pronouncements regarding the ways in which we will view machines and ourselves in the very near future:
They will believe that they are conscious. They will believe that they have spiritual experiences. They will be convinced that these experiences are meaningful. [And] ůweĺre likely to believe them when tell us (8).
By the end of the twenty-first century, there wonĺt be a clear difference between humans and robots (8).
Once nanotechnology can cause the bodies of people to become biological/mechanical hybrids, it would not be a large step to construct bodies for sentience claiming, computer intelligences to inhabit. A science fiction-like debate regarding the definitions and/or the rights of artificial intelligence and artificial persons quickly would be rendered moot because of biological truths and evolutionary forces. In the short term, I believe that biochauvinism will provide the impetus to design beings that look like us. However, I can see nothing that will alter the fictional status of Asimovĺs Three Laws (1):. And there is no reason to imagine that by what ever means a biological system achieves its form, that it will not be driven by the same overriding force as every other life form that has every existed -getting its own alleles into the gene pool. Assortive mating coupled with natural selection will have no use for present-day human intentions.
After at first believing that my desire to understand George Dysonĺs book Darwin Among the Machines: The Evolution of Global Intelligence (10) would ultimately prove as futile as humanĺs belief that they have power over evolution, I was comforted by finding I was not the only one who found some of his augments dense and impenetrable (16). Dyson postulates about GNR technologies as he extrapolates upon some old and some very common notions. There is a strong connection to Drexler and Kurzweil (they all cite each other) and there is an interrelated quality to all of their notions, which all makes perfect sense in light of Dysonĺs central augment, which includes interconnectedness. Simply stated, Dyson argues that the power of computers, because they are globally networked, is a new and evolving intelligence, which has the potential (with an evolutionary nudge) to generate new life forms.
He reached this conclusion by way of a route almost as circuitous as this paper, which praises Darwin, re-appraises Butler, loses me (and many others) with number theory, and ultimately concludes with the fact that there is a difference between replication, (what code does) and reproduction (which biological systems do) that will cause the next great evolutionary leap.
Butler (a contemporary of Darwin) put forth an evolutionary thesis that states that there is intelligence within, but not behind, speciesĺ evolution. He believed that individuals are intelligent and collectively their species exhibits its own intelligence through evolution. And Butler, (like Kurzweil) also further asserted that there is intelligence inherent in technologically. Darwin, according to Dyson, made a mistake in avoiding any mention of intelligence, either from within (like Butler does) or from outside (God) of evolutionary forces.
Dyson then tries to apply Butlerian and Darwinian theories to computers. Because they are more intelligent collectively, i.e., networked, he argues that there is intelligence akin to Butlerian species intelligence. Then he puts forth (here's where number theory comes in) that when the intelligence of computer networks becomes complicated enough, its code will find ways to combine in a reproductive (rather than replicative) fashion. Finally, he asserts that there will be a symbiosis between computer intelligence and the biological creatures that created it, which will result in the formation of lots of new species through speciation and through a process called symbiogenesis (two distinct life forms joining to produce a new life form). Once new life forms begin to emerge, the forces of Darwinian natural selection will create heretofore-unimagined diversity.
However, my take on Dysonĺs book is that it requires an incredible amount of hard work to ultimately arrive at an amalgam of evolution theories, a fairly complete history of computer technologies, and common religious and new age spiritual concepts. But I guess thatĺs why I was drawn to it.
Thinking about GNR technologies has for me been an evolutionary process. It began slowly, a long time ago, built upon itself, and took some dead ends, then tried some variations. It has not yet taken any big leap, but is always constantly moving. I am quite convinced that because of nanotechnology, people will influence (in the very short term) evolutionary change. And I think that Kurzweil is also correct, machines will be sentient and merge with us because we will want to merge with them. Dyson, difficult as his book was, helped coalesce many concepts Iĺve been (and will continue) wrestling with. But he, more than the others, made me understand why Joyĺs position is so very wrong. Joy suggests that we stop developing GNR technologies and heed the teachings of the Dalai Lama to lead compassionate, ethical lives. Surely, I have no dispute with the Dalai Lamaĺs teachings, but I do think that Joy needs to contemplate the Buddhist concept that the only constant is change, and get a set of my bumper stickers.
Asimovĺs Three Laws
Review of The Female Man
Neuromancer on-line
The Uplift Novels
Heinleinĺs Novels
Hal 9000
Engines of Creation on-line
The Age of Spiritual Machines
Wired April 2000
Darwin Among the Machines: The evolution of Global Intelligence
Engines Chapter 4
Macroevolution website
The Story of the 21st Century
Kurzweilĺs Technological Timeline
Article entitled Author's look back helps reveal the future of intelligence
Thanks to Mike Plotnick, for being my designated
And with gratitude to Dr. Grobstein for giving his students the required tools for basic biological understand and for designing a course that offers the latitude for in depth examination of individually chosen subjects and self-exploration.
| Biology 103
| Forum | Biology | Serendip Home |


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Beginning a three-month tour of the Southern states in April of 1791, President George Washington came, unannounced, to Fredericksburg from Mt. Vernon.
Without delay, all forces were organized and an elegant dinner was prepared at Fredericksburg's Market-House/Town Hall to honor the hometown boy. The principal inhabitants of the corporation amassed at the brick building at the west side of Caroline Street, just below Market Alley.
He was a great leader, an inspiring general, and a reluctant president who was fully aware that his public identity would become the country's solace during the difficult times of crafting a new nation. His careful silences may have contributed to his social and political success, but they did not entirely satisfy a populace who desired an icon of such moral superiority that Parson Weems' largely fabricated Life of Washington was a bestseller for years.
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There is a news about poor quality bullet proof jacket, whats ur comment?
Asked by Sandip, 02 Dec '08 08:14 pm
Earn 10 points for answering
Answers (5)
I saw that report on a channel today. It was said that the best of the bullet stopping jackets, which really stopped bullets was given to VIPs !!!! And Jawans and officers were given such types that did not even stop a 9MM pistol bullet, leave alone a bullet of an assault rifle like AK-47.Answered by QueSera Sera, 02 Dec '08 08:20 pm
Sandeep, even if the bullet proof jacket was made in the US or Germany, it's still only going to stop a 9mm bullet, not a hail of fire from a high power assault rifle like an AK-47. And moreover, commandos don't prefer wearing bullet proof vests because it makes them bulkier & less mobile...and bullet proof vest also limits carrying other equipment like more ammunition, more optical equipment etc.Answered by A Moin, 02 Dec '08 09:38 pm
Late Hemant Karkare and all have not taken it up with the powers that be about the thick bullet proof vest. It is quite obvious nobody reviews the issues the officials and the security requirement analysers.Things are allowed to go as hey are. There is a need for an urgent review and a quick follow up.Answered by balasubramanian ganesan, 02 Dec '08 08:33 pm
Politicians do not hesitate to make money at the cost of their mother landAnswered by Damodar Biswal, 02 Dec '08 08:32 pm
Not heardAnswered by dhanendra kumar jain, 02 Dec '08 08:17 pm


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|By Business Wire
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|January 16, 2013 08:01 AM EST
PHD Virtual Technologies, a pioneer in virtual machine backup and recovery, and innovator of virtualization monitoring solutions, announced today record revenue for 2012 with a 34 percent annual growth – surpassing its 5,000th customer. In addition, the company was just ranked as one of the "Top 15 Most Growing Storage Start-Ups in 2012" by StorageNewsletter.com.
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"This past year was a whirlwind with the release of new virtual backup and monitoring solutions, the development of a worldwide partner program and unprecedented customer adoptions," said James Legg, CEO, PHD Virtual Technologies. "With the addition of various board members and a solid executive team, we are poised for future growth and well positioned going into 2013."
PHD recently launched its PHD Virtual Backup 6.1 providing customers with the scalability and flexibility they need and makes the backup process easier to manage and more efficient, while also providing fully recoverable data at a moment's notice.
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"Over this past year we have also invested in our marketing efforts to help support customer growth and requests for easier access to free products. In response to these requests, we've recently launched our new website, which has been redesigned to provide the best information and resources to arm our partners, prospects and customers with the information they need 24/7 to make informed product decisions," continued Legg.
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PHD Virtual provides the absolute best value in virtual backup and monitoring for VMware and Citrix platforms. More than 5,000 customers worldwide rely on our products because they are effective, easier to use and far more affordable than competitive alternatives. Delivering the highest performance and most scalable cross platform backup and monitoring solutions on the market and pioneer of Virtual Backup Appliances (VBAs), PHD Virtual Technologies has been transforming data protection for virtual IT environments since 2006. Its PHD Virtual Monitor provides a complete, end-to-end solution for monitoring virtual, physical and application infrastructures in VMware and Citrix environments. For more information, please visit: http://www.phdvirtual.com/
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Bit6 today issued a challenge to the technology community implementing Web Real Time Communication (WebRTC). To leap beyond WebRTC's significant limitations and fully leverage its underlying value to accelerate innovation, application developers need to consider the entire communications ecosystem.
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The definition of IoT is not new, in fact it's been around for over a decade. What has changed is the public's awareness that the technology we use on a daily basis has caught up on the vision of an always on, always connected world. If you look into the details of what comprises the IoT, you'll see that it includes everything from cloud computing, Big Data analytics, "Things," Web communication, applications, network, storage, etc. It is essentially including everything connected online from hardware to software, or as we like to say, it's an Internet of many different things. The difference ...
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Cloud Expo 2014 TV commercials will feature @ThingsExpo, which was launched in June, 2014 at New York City's Javits Center as the largest 'Internet of Things' event in the world.
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"There is a natural synchronization between the business models, the IoT is there to support ," explained Brendan O'Brien, Co-founder and Chief Architect of Aria Systems, in this SYS-CON.tv interview at the 15th International Cloud Expo®, held Nov 4–6, 2014, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA.
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The major cloud platforms defy a simple, side-by-side analysis. Each of the major IaaS public-cloud platforms offers their own unique strengths and functionality. Options for on-site private cloud are diverse as well, and must be designed and deployed while taking existing legacy architecture and infrastructure into account. Then the reality is that most enterprises are embarking on a hybrid cloud strategy and programs. In this Power Panel at 15th Cloud Expo (http://www.CloudComputingExpo.com), moderated by Ashar Baig, Research Director, Cloud, at Gigaom Research, Nate Gordon, Director of T...
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An entirely new security model is needed for the Internet of Things, or is it? Can we save some old and tested controls for this new and different environment? In his session at @ThingsExpo, New York's at the Javits Center, Davi Ottenheimer, EMC Senior Director of Trust, reviewed hands-on lessons with IoT devices and reveal a new risk balance you might not expect. Davi Ottenheimer, EMC Senior Director of Trust, has more than nineteen years' experience managing global security operations and assessments, including a decade of leading incident response and digital forensics. He is co-author of t...
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Technology is enabling a new approach to collecting and using data. This approach, commonly referred to as the "Internet of Things" (IoT), enables businesses to use real-time data from all sorts of things including machines, devices and sensors to make better decisions, improve customer service, and lower the risk in the creation of new revenue opportunities. In his General Session at Internet of @ThingsExpo, Dave Wagstaff, Vice President and Chief Architect at BSQUARE Corporation, discuss the real benefits to focus on, how to understand the requirements of a successful solution, the flow of ...
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The security devil is always in the details of the attack: the ones you've endured, the ones you prepare yourself to fend off, and the ones that, you fear, will catch you completely unaware and defenseless. The Internet of Things (IoT) is nothing if not an endless proliferation of details. It's the vision of a world in which continuous Internet connectivity and addressability is embedded into a growing range of human artifacts, into the natural world, and even into our smartphones, appliances, and physical persons. In the IoT vision, every new "thing" - sensor, actuator, data source, data con...
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Focused on this fast-growing market's needs, Vitesse Semiconductor Corporation (Nasdaq: VTSS), a leading provider of IC solutions to advance "Ethernet Everywhere" in Carrier, Enterprise and Internet of Things (IoT) networks, introduced its IStaX™ software (VSC6815SDK), a robust protocol stack to simplify deployment and management of Industrial-IoT network applications such as Industrial Ethernet switching, surveillance, video distribution, LCD signage, intelligent sensors, and metering equipment. Leveraging technologies proven in the Carrier and Enterprise markets, IStaX is designed to work ac...
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C-Labs LLC, a leading provider of remote and mobile access for the Internet of Things (IoT), announced the appointment of John Traynor to the position of chief operating officer. Previously a strategic advisor to the firm, Mr. Traynor will now oversee sales, marketing, finance, and operations. Mr. Traynor is based out of the C-Labs office in Redmond, Washington. He reports to Chris Muench, Chief Executive Officer. Mr. Traynor brings valuable business leadership and technology industry expertise to C-Labs. With over 30 years' experience in the high-tech sector, John Traynor has held numerous...
Nov. 20, 2014 06:00 PM EST Reads: 1,352
The 3rd International @ThingsExpo, co-located with the 16th International Cloud Expo - to be held June 9-11, 2015, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY - announces that it is now accepting Keynote Proposals. The Internet of Things (IoT) is the most profound change in personal and enterprise IT since the creation of the Worldwide Web more than 20 years ago. All major researchers estimate there will be tens of billions devices - computers, smartphones, tablets, and sensors - connected to the Internet by 2020. This number will continue to grow at a rapid pace for the next several decades.
Nov. 20, 2014 01:00 PM EST Reads: 1,596
The Internet of Things is not new. Historically, smart businesses have used its basic concept of leveraging data to drive better decision making and have capitalized on those insights to realize additional revenue opportunities. So, what has changed to make the Internet of Things one of the hottest topics in tech? In his session at @ThingsExpo, Chris Gray, Director, Embedded and Internet of Things, discussed the underlying factors that are driving the economics of intelligent systems. Discover how hardware commoditization, the ubiquitous nature of connectivity, and the emergence of Big Data a...
Nov. 20, 2014 12:30 PM EST Reads: 1,807
Almost everyone sees the potential of Internet of Things but how can businesses truly unlock that potential. The key will be in the ability to discover business insight in the midst of an ocean of Big Data generated from billions of embedded devices via Systems of Discover. Businesses will also need to ensure that they can sustain that insight by leveraging the cloud for global reach, scale and elasticity.
Nov. 18, 2014 09:00 PM EST Reads: 2,029
SYS-CON Events announced today that IDenticard will exhibit at SYS-CON's 16th International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on June 9-11, 2015, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. IDenticard™ is the security division of Brady Corp (NYSE: BRC), a $1.5 billion manufacturer of identification products. We have small-company values with the strength and stability of a major corporation. IDenticard offers local sales, support and service to our customers across the United States and Canada. Our partner network encompasses some 300 of the world's leading systems integrators and security s...
Nov. 18, 2014 08:15 PM EST Reads: 1,587
IoT is still a vague buzzword for many people. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Mike Kavis, Vice President & Principal Cloud Architect at Cloud Technology Partners, discussed the business value of IoT that goes far beyond the general public's perception that IoT is all about wearables and home consumer services. He also discussed how IoT is perceived by investors and how venture capitalist access this space. Other topics discussed were barriers to success, what is new, what is old, and what the future may hold. Mike Kavis is Vice President & Principal Cloud Architect at Cloud Technology Pa...
Nov. 18, 2014 01:30 PM EST Reads: 2,018