text:
Do you like the current interface?
- d
- David Ford Jun 29, 2006 09:29 PM
Dear Chowhound Team (and kind fellow members of the Chowhound community),
This post is a follow-up to my post of a few days ago where I attempted to build a case for a return to the older style Chowhound interface. The title of that post is "Technical interface considerations (long)", and it can be found at the following URL:
Although my previous post was authored with the Chowhound Team primarily in mind, I would like to now open the discussion to any of my fellow chowhounds who would like to join in. I believe this to be an issue of utmost importance which needs to be fully explored NOW; while there still may be time to change it.
If this item is still on the table, then I would like to offer another installation of what I hope is being received as clear thinking on the subject. Otherwise, kindly inform me that this issue has been closed and I will post no further concerning it.
First, let's take a look at the current state of the Chowhound interface.
The new interface is hierarchial, yes. But not in a relevant way as it was in the old interface. The benefit of a hierarchial layout is that it provides the user a means to "follow" the various conversations that are taking place within any given thread. This benefit is gained through allowing the user to click their way through the thread at their own speed -- one post at a time -- until all information in that thread has been digested to the user's satisfaction.
This benefit is totally lost in the new interface where all the posts in a given thread are opened and ready to be read at once -- from top to bottom. In doing this, the hierarchial tree -- present as it may be -- is rendered unusable. When shown a list of items (or posts) on a page, human nature is to read them one after the other, in sequential order until finished. The hierarchial tree is not a "normal" example of sequential order; top to bottom is! So, when presented with a list of posts (even though a hierarchial structure is present *in* that list), our nature is to read that list from top to bottom. In doing this, we lose the context of each post in the list. And the benefit of the hierarchial system is not gained. Yes, one could go back after reading the list and make the effort to "re-assemble" the various conversations and responses *in* that thread -- by using the (included) hierarchial interface. But why would they? The list of information (posts) has already been skimmed for relevant substance. And all relevant content has been digested, from the user's standpoint. Most will simply click onto the next thread and continue skimming.
But will they have received all the value that was contained in that thread?
No, they will have not. Because inherent in the drone-like "skimming" process (as the user is encouraged to do in the case of an expanded thread view -- as is present in the new interface), is the temptation to ignore the relationships between and identities contained within each post in a given thread. The skimming process does not need to know the origin of a post or the history behind it; only the post is relevant to the skimmer.
And that is what this new interface is destined to turn us into; skimmers. And the value of the Chowhound resource will diminish. And the quality of the user base will wane.
Because we will cease to be a community. Our identities will be lost amid a sea of posts; posts that we compose but are no longer given credit for.
The old interface made us gleaners; searchers; treasure-hunters -- Chowhounds! We could see the whole set of conversations in front of us; unexpanded and waiting to be clicked on and discovered. We could see who was responsible for each individual post *before* we began to digest it. In this way, the vital link between subject and author remained intact; and we were a community!
I could go on, but I am curious what others' feelings are on the subject.
Fellow chowhounds? Chowhound Team?
re: Robert Lauriston
I agree. I also find it easy to see what I have alread read and if I want to reference a post it is just a matter of scrolling. I like being able to see the whole thread without clicking back and forth
re: Robert Lauriston
Exactly! Plus the search feature makes it so much easier to find things. I hated it for a day or two, but now I think its a big improvement.
Personally, I very much DISLIKE the new look, the new interface, just about everything about the site now. David hit on most of the reasons in his post, but I will add that there is an entirely different look and feel to the site now that is cold, impersonal, false, corporate... call it what you will, but it isn't as welcoming and friendly-looking as it was before. That sense leads me to come here less often and be less likely to post on the boards, which is the only reason I ever visited.
It is bad enough for me, watching the number of posts fall off the charts, to wonder if this will result in the end of Chowhound as we knew it. It would be ironic that the thing that purportedly came along to save Chowhound... ends up destroying it.
re: Greg B
I agree with you. I loved the ghetto-ness of the previous hound... without all the colors and what not. More focused on the food rather than the shiny pretty graphics. Just pure talk. The new interface does seem a lot more corporate and impersonal.
However, I'm wondering if we will like this more once we get used to it??
re: Greg B
Wait, so you prefer blue links on a white backgrond? You like that retro 1996 thing?
re: biscuit
It didn't partiuclarly bother me -- in some ways, it added to the character of the site, sort of like the anachronistic architecture of a great restaurant in a quirky old building. This new place feels like a McDonald's. To be honest, gee-whiz features like some of the things I see here (like the changing colors of the box your text appears in when you make a post -- why bother coding something like that?) annoys me far more. Especially when other things fail to work and I think of how those development resources could have been put to better use. For example, the links in the Big Red Box at the bottom of the screen will lock up my browser with great regularity. I'm surprised something like that wasn't found in testing.
re: biscuit
Well I certainly do.
re: Greg B
Greg B - perhaps you are simply very used to the old format, and need to give this one a chance? Some points from a Chowhound "n00b"-
1) Are the number of posts really decreasing? I signed up today, despite being a Chowhound lurker for years now, because of the new interface.
2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this simply a problem of "threaded view" (the old chowhound) and "flat mode" (the current chowhound).
I post on another message board where the *overwhelming consensus* is that flat mode is far superior to threaded mode. Who likes to click on links all the time? And how difficult is it to scan through a full thread by scrolling?
To the Chowhound engineers - why not simply put, as many other message boards do, user options to viewe in threaded or flat mode?
3) Searching - is maybe 1 billion times easier now, thank you for that.
re: Aloysius
I agree with you, Al!
First, the search *is* awesome now. And I join you in thanking the Chowhound Team for fixing that.
Second, you're right; this is simply a problem of "threaded view" (the old chowhound) and "flat mode" (the current chowhound).
Finally, I echo your suggestion to the Chowhound engineers that (they) consider "...simply put (ting), as many other message boards do, user options to view in threaded or flat mode".
That would work for everyone!
P.S. I actually do have a comment on your fourth point:
"I post on another message board where the *overwhelming consensus* is that flat mode is far superior to threaded mode. Who likes to click on links all the time? And how difficult is it to scan through a full thread by scrolling?"
Not all message boards are special in the same way that Chowhound is. Chowhound generates so much passion from its users because of the unique community that it has been successful in building. It is not unusual for a chowhound to be on the "fringe" of popular culture; leading the way!
I say all that to say this: In other message boards, people do not speak "to" each other as they generally have done in Chowhound; they speak "at" each other. And many times, they do not even care if they are heard.
re: David Ford
That's not true of one foodie site I hang out on, which will go unnamed (since every time I've posted it's name here the post was deleted). Folks are very passionate there and for me, the site has a far more developed sense of "community" and folks there, have communicated with me directly a whole lot more than here on CH.
re: Greg B
Just because the new interface isn't living up to its potential doesn't mean the old interface was automatically great. I always hated the old interface, but accepted it as the only way to interact with this particular community. As time wore on, with broken promises of site revamps, and interface advancements elsewhere, it got harder and harder to take the old interface. Good riddance.
Gotta say that I absolutely love the new style Chowhound. I confess that I am relatively new to Chowhound, but when I was reading the threads in the old format, it was a pain in the rump to scroll down to threads I wanted to read (and re-read). Searching for topics was nearly impossible, and was only enabled through the Mozilla search option. Whenever I did a search, my computer screen would freeze. Also, the older format was rather messy.
The new format is very user-friendly and easy on the eyes.
Regardless, though, I think both the Chowhound administrators, as well as the posters, are doing superb jobs with respect to recommendations, reviews, website management, etc. This is such a wonderful site!
re: Pamela
Hi.. You mention 'easy on the eyes', regarding the new style. Boy, I could not disagree more. The old interface only required a literal glance, I swear, just a *glance*, to determine whether a specific response (to a specific response) was new and therefore of interest within each subset of a thread. Livin' was easy, back in the day. New Chowhound is better than no Chowhound at all, so I'll adapt. As humans, it's aruguably what we do best...
I like the new interface. The clicking back and forth and waiting for the board to slowly reload each time. I have little trouble following the trees, and like the relatively sleek new look.
The only think I would find very useful on this issue is making the trees collapsible. Not a huge deal (and probably a programming nightmare), but that might make sorting a tad easier. Overall, the current interface is a marked improvement.
Hi folks,
I say this with a tremendous amount of respect for the community you helped to build on Chowhound, but if you actually enjoyed using the previous software, then there was absolutely nothing we could have done to make the transition any less abrupt than it was.
The old system was a simple piece of code that was never meant to handle the load that Chowhound put on it and was a perfect example of what a user interface should _not_ be.
-Chowhound Engineering
re: PJ Hyett
> it and was a perfect example of what a user interface should _not_ be. <
With equal respect, that comment would be sent back to the kitchen by a fair number of us here. I would suggest that the number of people commenting exactly the opposite should be sufficient to make you reconsider the sureness of your position.
re: Greg B
But greg - you took it out of context - the line before from PJ says it ALL:
"The old system was a simple piece of code that was never meant to handle the load that Chowhound put on it"
The old system was complained and complained and complained about and just as many of us LIKE the updated version. While great changes are probably to come - what do you expect: that this will all be ditched and we'll go back to the old board?
I'm going to go ahead and say that an engineering team for CNET has a better idea of how the back-end of an interface works (I'm sure there was wailing and gnashing of teeth when they saw the old site) and whether or not it is sustainable or workable for the volumes we have.
My husband (software engineer) did some work on another project for Jim and they had conversations about just how broken the old site was for the year 2006 with thousands of posts per day. This was no big secret to anyone.
I don't mean disrespect but I think it's time for a lot of people to move on and let it go.
re: krissywats
I don't think it was out of context at all. The first part dealt with load issues and the part I quoted dealt with a very negative comment over the quality of the interface. Two entirely different (and in my mind unrelated) subjects.
I am a bit sensitive to changes in board software largely because I used to be a regular at an automotive board at edmunds.com that has been systematically destroyed by the site owners over the years, largely by a series of ill-advised software changes that were very poorly implemented and largely unexplained to the user community. It would be a shame to have the same thing happen here.
re: PJ Hyett
Hello PJ,
I respect you too, but part of what you have just said makes no sense to me.
In particular:
>The old system was a simple piece
>of code that was never meant to handle
>the load that Chowhound put on it and
>was a perfect example of what a user
>interface should _not_ be.
I have no problem understanding how the old system was a simple piece of code that was never meant to handle the load that Chowhound put on it.
Fine. Sounds like you had a simple "plumbing" issue on your hands. Break down the work cycles; distribute the various jobs to a more specialized network of servers; re-code inefficient cycles to be more efficient; things of this nature. I have no doubt that the old site was choking the hardware. You don't have to be a system administrator with intimate knowledge of the inner workings of Chowhound to see how inefficient it was to enable users to re-load the entire board just to read the next thread.
Again, fine. And much respect to Chowhound Engineering for the job you have all done in this emergency plumbing repair. And for putting all the hard work in trying your best to build a new Chowhound from the ground up.
However, the second part of what you said is not at all related to this. At least if you mean the same thing when you say "interface" as I do.
Nowhere in either of my two posts outlining my reasons why I think the new interface should be improved -- and in my suggestions for how the new interface *could* be improved -- do I say anything that should relate in any way to placing an increased load on a server. Certainly not once you have cleaned up the code and limited message board re-loading to 40 at a time (down from 36,000 plus on my home board).
Please tell me how, for example, that re-coding the thread view from being a scroll-based process to a click-based process would place any significant load increase on your servers? This, after all, is the heart of my complaint. Matter of fact, it is my ONLY compaint!
The thread view is already hierarchial -- just like the old board. All I am asking that you do is to collapse the threads and let us click again. Scrolling does not serve an adequate function for all the reasons that I have given. I have no problem with the 40 thread view. I also think you could tone down the font size and clean up some of the graphics; but that is not a deal-breaker.
Scrolling through expanded threads is evil, though. It completely disconnects us from the identities and relationships that we have spent so much time developing. And it serves to discourage community-building; which is at the heart of Chowhound.
All I am asking is that you collapse the threads and let us click again. I am not asking that you trash the entire interface. Just apply the necessary tweaks to this (I hope) small part of it.
Thanks for listening,
re: David Ford
"Scrolling through expanded threads is evil, though. It completely disconnects us from the identities and relationships that we have spent so much time developing. And it serves to discourage community-building; which is at the heart of Chowhound."
Please remember that that is your opinion, not fact. I'm finding exactly the opposite.
re: krissywats
Hi krissywats,
Thanks for replying. Let me begin by saying that I completely respect your right to a different opinion than mine concerning scrolling. And I regret that my admittedly passionate set of posts gave you the mistakened impression that I am under the illusion that my opinions are anything more than, well, *opinions*.
Finally, I can appreciate what you are saying -- to a point.
Here is where perhaps you can elaborate a little more. When you say that you are "finding exactly the opposite (to be true)", do you mean that you just don't dislike scrolling as much as I do (and for the reasons that I do), or do you mean that the old interface was guilty of all the bad things that I have attributed to the new interface?
I bring up the point for the simple reason that the two are very different.
Thanks for clearing that up! And again, thanks for your opinion -- disagreeable as it may be.
re: David Ford
Hey David,
I was specifically speaking to the idea that we are disconnected from other users and that this site, in it's current form, does not engender community-building. I'm finding I actually take notice of names more often and enjoy personalities here that I didn't before. I'm also spending time on many different boards, rather than just one, and 'meeting' new people I hadn't before. I'm defintely way more involved.
I've said before that I'd scroll rather than click any day - but perhaps because that is my preference I am enjoying myself which is leading to my own 'community-building' whereas someone that is unhappy with scrolling might be disagreeable to a feeling of community because they are unhappy.
Have no idea what could be done about that, however. SOMEONE is going to be unhappy either way.
Hi David... You've said it all and I strongly concur. I now feel disconnected to the 'hounds on my local board(s). I'm now reduced to looking for information, as opposed cultivating relationships based on agreements and disagreements re: food products, restaurants, and dining experiences. Like the classic Twilight Zone episode, I feel like those toy dolls stranded in a collection bin, who don't know who they are or why they've been brought together. It's a feeling of detachment and I no longer know if others are responding precisely to what I write or what the thread demands. In any event, I thank the Chowhound Team for the monumental task before them, and my gripes are really the gripes of the overly privileged. Mea culpa...
re: silence9
What silence9 said. (and thanks)
re: Jack Flash
Agree completely. Old format I could tell with a glance where I'd left off reading. This format, I have to reconstruct it again each time from memory. I don't find that the "new" is particularly helpful. Can we have the posts we open turn a different color, as previously? It would make navigating tremendously easier.
A couple of simple suggestions, nothing too volatile or wild here:
1. I've always disliked that you can't change the title of a reply to quickly summarize your position or comment. This is a powerful feature in other boards - no reason not to have it here (there MUST be a way around that "hot post" feature relying on title as a tag of some kind)
2. A compact view is desired by a lot of folks, so you should offer one:
a. Allow viewing responses and hier. chain as you are now, with text open (or)
b. Responses are minimized, with only title, time and username of responder shown
The user preference as to which view would be shown as default can be made in the user profile.
3. You should put the most recent responses to a thread on top, as was done before. I actually liked that. This, could also be a user preference, perhaps. It may matter less if you provide a minimized hierarchical thread view.
Just my 2 cents. Ooooh, make that 3 cents now that inflation is kicking in.
re: CulverJack
Hi Culverjack,
In response:
>1. I've always disliked that you
>can't change the title of a reply
>to quickly summarize your
>position or comment. (snip)
I have good news for you, Culverjack; you CAN! Simply mouse-over the title in your thread and wait for it to change yellow. Then click on it! And thanks, Chowhound Team, for this little ditty.
>2. A compact view is desired by a
>lot of folks, so you should offer
>a. Allow viewing responses and
>hier. chain as you are now, with
>text open (or)
>b. Responses are minimized, with
>only title, time and username of
>responder shown
>The user preference as to which
>view would be shown as default
>can be made in the user profile.
Couldn't agree more! Very good stuff. Chowhound Team?
>3. You should put the most recent
>responses to a thread on top, as
>was done before. I actually liked
>that. This, could also be a user
>preference, perhaps. It may matter
>less if you provide a minimized
>hierarchical thread view.
This sounds good too!
Culverjack, you ROCK!
re: David Ford
Only the person who starts a topic can change the title. On the old site each reply had its own title and people could change them at will, which was a mixed blessing.
There are many things that have improved on this site, but I also agree with David about losing the flavor of all the interesting sub-conversations because of the way the thread hierarchy is laid out now. Not only does it seem less friendly, but I find myself scrolling up and down trying to match up the indentations and eventually lose interest if the threads have a lot of posts. I do enjoy not having to click back and forth between screens, but maybe the option of a toggled abbreviated view/expanded view, with the "new" tags and the original hierarchy, would do the trick.
Also, about the profiles/tracking features: Since I participate on Home Cooking, I'm enjoying learning which regions the posters are from. And I'll read what they have to say in the canned profile questions since they took the time to fill it out. I'm glad we have the option not to answer the questions. However, I'd prefer that the "who's tracking me" list be private. It seems such a distraction when I look at someone's profile and immediately find myself thinking, wow, that person is really popular/important/sophisticated/writes well/etc/etc. If anyone want to track someone else, that's great as an option, it just creeps me out a little that we all get to see it. Shouldn't be anyone else's business.
Thanks for the beer board! Yay!!!!
re: biscuit
When you say that, I assume you weren't using hotposts.
re: Robert Lauriston
This would certainly be a step in the right direction.
Thanks, Robert!
A "Ferture" of the old board is not on the new board.
There are many posts that for reasons of topic or geography don't interest me.
I had a trick on the old board to flag me that I am not interested.
I would look at one of the replies in the center of the choices and not the ones above or below it.
Thus when I workd scan the main L.A. board I could immediately see which ones I need not revisit.
Now, other than the title I have no way of knowing that I did not like the content. I always would scan a long way back to catch stragglers. Kudos for the new reply feature!
I think the perceved lower posting is due to some resistance to getting a userid and will pick up when simply cannot resist a reply.
I am learning to like the new board.
I much prefer the new interface. Yes, it needs some tweaking but it is much snappier and easier to use, keeps current topics always in view and encourages participation on boards other than one's regular hangouts. As far as I'm concerned, the threaded interface was superior only for very long topics (30+ posts), which, I admit, are a bit unweildy now. Occasional unwieldiness I can live with, however.
re: woodrow
Me too, woodrow. It does feel like the conversation is hidden now. Data in a vacuum; soulless; lifeless and without passion. We need the conversation back.
Like you, I also used to like to scan a thread for replies from some of my favorite regulars. To do this now is not impossible, but takes so much effort it's not even worth it.
It's as I said in my original post; the new interface is destined to turn us into "skimmers".
re: woodrow
If you bookmark your favorite regulars, you can see where they're posting on the My Chow page.
I don't like the new tread titles are displayed. The font is way too big, I feel like I'm being yelled at when I scroll through the topics. I do like the interface, it's much easier to find the various forums.
As with the part about the conversation being hidden, I am sure that can be easily fixed using DHTML dropins (UI, like you have with the menu) with AJAX (Content).
re: Davwud
I agree - I prefer this new site as well - I can honestly say I've fallen in love with Chowhound all over again. :-)
While I would appreciate a collapsible tree view, and I hope that's one item on the Team's checklist to see if they can add, I'm willing to be patient and wait. They've got a gazillion people throwing suggestions at them, and they're obviously working on suggestions they think are good ones to upgrade the site and make it more user-friendly.
The site is a WORK IN PROGRESS. The old site was about ready to fall into oblivion, and I think the CH Team has done a damn fine job in getting everything moved over to a new site without losing the content or having the old software blow up before they got it converted!
Are there still some changes to be made? Yes - and it's obvious they're working on it....we've gone from 20 to 40 messages per view, as one example. They've added color to the background of new posts to make them easier to find, for another example.
But you know what? It ain't going to be exactly perfect for everyone at all times - that's impossible. And it isn't ALL going to be done NOW, as so many people seem to be demanding. Nor will it ALL be done as some people think it should be. We're users, not owners. As such, we deal with things that might not be to our liking. Or make the suggestion, and hope that it's a good one and doable by the Team. Or we move on to other sites and leave Chowhound behind (although why anyone would do that, I don't know!)
I, for one, will wait. And enjoy the new and improved Chowhound. And give my utmost thanks it didn't go away before CNet found them. :-)
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the content and the community that make Chowhound Chowhound? A new, clean, modern interface does not a "corporate" website make! The content is still unpaid for and completely real. It's just changed clothes.
Would you judge a person for the clothes he wears? Should we all start wearing flour sacks to avoid being labeled as "corporate" too? It seems to me that a lot of close consideration in order better serve the Chowhound community went into this redesign. I see nothing more "cold" or "impersonal" than before.
And really, how is scrolling down more "drone like" than see-sawing back and forth with my browser's back button? That always made me seasick. And the old small blue lettering made my eyes burn after a while...
I like the new site and it really does seem that the Chowhound team is listening to constructive criticism. I'm not saying it's perfect, or that everyone's negative points are invalid, but it really is better than before.
Thank you for verbalizing my thoughts as of late.
It seems to me the new Chowhound (if left as is) will be best for random searches -- but, due to the new format which induces 'skimming', you DEFINITELY loose the relationships with people.
Part of what I loved about Chowhound was reading the responses of favorite posters -- and growing to know who had similar tastes to mine. All that is lost in the new format - since it expands out.
I definitely agree that this would be solved with adding threaded view....
I DO think it takes about a month or so to get used to new interfaces, so I'm giving it some time and hope the engineers will be able to do something with all the feedback they are receiving.
I find myself being generally annoyed as I read through ALL posts, instead of clicking on the links. I didn't mind clicking back and forth... and it allowed me to weed out posters I cared not to read.... now I have no choice.
Font size, colors, new pictures -- none of that matters to me, as it is secondary to why I enjoyed the site. I was here for the information, to share, to learn, to enjoy!!
Here's to hoping some great changes are in process.... if not, I'd imagine I'd interface with Chowhound on a less frequent basis.
On a different note -- has it struck you that the quality of posts have dimminished (perhaps this is indicitve of new hounds -- but it just seems like the recs coming through aren't as solid as they were - say - 3 months ago? (...just a random thought).
Thanks again for getting this particular dialogue going....
re: The Oracle
I only read the old Chowhound for a brief time before they changed the style and format, but many posters have remarked that with the new Chowhound, one loses the original community feel. I have to disagree, but maybe my definition of "community" differs from your definition. Of course, I haven't been a long-time member of the Chowhound community, so I guess I missed out on that part, which, from the sounds of it, was one of the most enjoyable portions of Chowhound.
Actually, what I love about the new chowhound site is how community-oriented it is. I love reading the different recommendations and reviews. I'm always so amazed by how complete strangers will assist in the inquiries of other foodphiles. And, frankly, it doesn't matter how old and young the posters are, or where they reside. Their comments are always so insightful.
Another reason why I like Chowhound is how un-elitist it is--or at least I thought this was the case until I read your post. It seems to me that SOME of the old Chowhound guards believe that the posters from the old Chowhound are far superior to the new Chowhound posters. As you commented above, you felt that the quality of the posts have diminished with the entry of a crop of new Chowhounds. I'm not sure I agree with this at all. Perhaps the "old" Chowhound posters were eloquent and provided thoughtful and comprehensive reviews and responses, but it seems to me that many of the new Chowhound posters do as well. Also, I didn't realize there was a hierarchy here.
If you want to read ONLY your favorite posters, why couldn't you simply track them? I ASSUME that this was the reason for the design of the tracking option.
With respect to the search option for Chowhound, with the old Chowhound it was darn near impossible to do a search for, say, a specific restaurant, food type, or food issue. With the new Chowhound, the search is easily done with the search engine, and the search is easily performed without freezing one's computer screen.
A lot of the old Chowhound folks also have complained about the gigantic font. I find this complaint a bit trivial. I think the purpose of the large font is to highlight the topics, which they have effectively done. I don't think the large font constitutes "yelling" or "screaming," as one poster suggested, especially since the headings are not all capital letters.
Change is always hard, so I do sympathize with those who preferred the old Chowhound, but change can be good too. I personally love the new Chowhound.
re: Pamela
I didn't mean to imply that there aren't great new posters out there (there most CERTAINLY are!) -- however, it has struck me lately that there has been a flurry of just random suggestions (ie: horrid chow spots touted as the best thing ever, suggestions that strike me as odd, or vague requests that when asked for more specifics to assist are ignored).
And, while something may be good to person "X", it may be horrid to person "Y" -- and, over time, I've found that I have similar foodie tastes with certain posters than others.... so, if person "X" is the person that has my similar food tastes and recommends something - I can almost guarantee that I'll enjoy it or have similar views on the topic.
We were all new chowhounds at one point in time - I'm not discouraging new posters or the value that they bring to the community, I just miss the way I'd zero in on some of my old favorites - while incorporating the other posters. I don't want to read ONLY my favorite posters -- however, know that I could click to track them, if I so desired. My goal is for community and being able to read and be selective about posts - instead of having to skim through EVERY post.
Suggestion about having posts in a collapsible format or having the thread view option would solve that.
It took me a while to get used to the old Chowhound format, when I was a newbie, and I would suspect it will take all of us a while to get used to the new format. That's just the nature of a change like this.
I'm not entirely opposed to the new site - and I love reading how much people prefer it, I can only imagine the time and energy that was poured into making it a site that would work for everyone. And, I DO love the search functionality. But, for now -- a lot of the magic has been lost for me.... I do hope that will return.
re: The Oracle
Regarding the quality of the posts, I've felt that way for the last 3-5 years. There are still good posts, from posters old and new, but they are far outweighed by the quantity of posts asking where to find this & that, which is what I mean by quality.
re: Peter Cuce
To Oracle and Peter Cuce:
Thank you for the clarifications. I now better understand some of the concerns from those who prefer the old Chowhound. Weeding through a long list of posts for any one topical area can be incredibly time-consuming and frustrating, that's for sure.
As for the quality of the posts, I'm not sure that the Chowhound administrators have any control over this issue. From the sounds of it, it seems that the new crop of Chowhounds are much, much younger. And that's not a bad thing at all; in fact, I think the younger Chowhounds provide a nice burst of energy and creativity to the boards.
I do think it's difficult to offer a venue that will please everyone, especially when the audience is so diverse. It's like teaching a class in which the students are at different levels: We have the old school folks, many of whom have incredibly sophisticated palates and ways of understanding, and then we have the younger folks and everyone in between. Of course, people come to these boards for different reasons too: Some come to read extensive restaurant reviews; others want recommendations for good, cheap eats; others want to try the new fad restaurant; others simply want cooking tips; and the list goes on indefinitely.
re: Peter Cuce
I know that it's always more fun to read a great report, but isn't this board largely about where to find this & that? Assuming it's food related, of course.
I wouldn't go so far as to say I dislike it, but I'm finding the more I use it the less I like it. Still relatively neutral about the change at this point, slightly preferring the old format. That's taking into consideration the better search function and the statements that Chowhound has made about bugginess and problems maintaining the old format and not based solely on the way forum content is presented. I do really like the editing feature.
One improvement that I don't think anyone's mentioned across all these many posts?
With the new login system, it tracks what you've read no matter what computer you're on.
With the old blue link/purple link system, I was endlessly out of sync between my work computer and home computer -- constantly clicking into a bunch of posts just to mark them purple.
No site is perfect, and change is hard, but I think that not only is the site better now, but they have a platform that has tremendous room to grow.
Peter in the Heights
re: Peter
"With the new login system, it tracks what you've read no matter what computer you're on.
With the old blue link/purple link system, I was endlessly out of sync between my work computer and home computer -- constantly clicking into a bunch of posts just to mark them purple."
I've discovered that as well, and I *LOVE* that improvement.
I'm still going to say - this new format is BETTER. At least for me.
re: prpjam
Just bookmark the thread, you can go back and read it whenever you want without having to search for it.
re: LindaWhit
With all due respect, Linda, your idea to bookmark one's favorite threads in a way such that one is enabled to more easily return to them without searching may not be speaking to the gist of prpjam's complaint. While your suggestion does offer a legitimate method of tracking a given thread for recent activity, it offers nothing in the way of providing easier navigation among posts (and sub-posts) *within* those threads. This is where I believe the issue lies.
If I may be so bold, the source of prpjam's frustration is the way the current interface all but disables the user's (previous) ability to follow the myriad (and multiple levels) of side "conversations" that naturally occur within a moderately active thread. These side conversations -- where many people join in and offer their opinions and responses to the given topic (and each other) -- are part of what makes online communities such as this one so compelling.
An example of a side conversation would be this. Let's say that user Aaa starts a new thread. Next, users Bbb, Ccc and Ddd all post responses to user Aaa. In this way, three people have responded to the OP (Original Poster), yet there is still only *one* conversation going on. And the subject of the conversation is that of the OP. OK, now let's say that user Eee posts a response to user Bbb. By doing this, user Eee has just introduced the first side conversation to this thread! And since it is only one level removed from the pool of responses to the OP, it is a level 1 side conversation (and a level 2 sub-post). Finally, the subject of the conversation is that of user Bbb (or, to be more specific, the substance contained in user Bbb's original response to the OP).
See how complicated things can get in describing a level 2 thread with only *four* responses containing *one* side conversation? Now imagine more. Many, many more. This is why a means is needed to "chart" the courses of these side conversations in a way such that readers and participants alike are enabled to both read and post in the correct order.
And in this way, the relationships between them are preserved! The old interface provided for this beautifully. Never mind all of its shortcomings; this is where the old interface really shined. Never mind that it was a backend maintenance nightmare. Never mind that certain other visual elements and processes were in dire need of repair. Let's remember what it *did* do -- and do well!
But if the proper *value* of these relationships is not demonstrated through the interface, and users are allowed to break the discipline of posting (and reading) without observing the correct order in each "branch" of sub-posts, then it is the fault of the interface -- not the user. A properly designed interface should encourage the proper execution of events. It should serve to *instruct* the user on a subtle, intuitive level.
This is a current (glaring) weakness contained in the new interface. Yes, the new software *behind* that interface is far superior to the old software in numerous respects. And I am thrilled that the new team is so obviously talented. I am also encouraged that they are showing a genuine desire to respond to the very special needs of this very special community.
But this needs to be fixed. And, given the already prolific track record of this amazing team, I find it almost inconceivable that most (if not *all*) of the technical concerns that I have tried to address in this and other posts on the subject are either on the table or being dealt with as I write.
If this is the case, then *thanks in advance*, Chowhound Team! If not, then I hope that this latest installment of my thinking on the subject is being well received and considered.
See what I mean, Linda?
re: David Ford
I hate this new site too. It probably does have many new cool features, but the site really doesn't attract me well enough to stay here longer to check them out. I just want to come and read latest posts, but since there isn't much going on on the boards since the switch, I don't even remember to check back and explore the site further. It is like a new expensive camera that comes with a 'War and Peace'- thick manual, but most 'cool' features hardly ever get to be utilized, when all you do is point and shoot.
I liked the quirkiness of the old site and its simple interface. The genius of Google or Craigslist was (and still is) just plain text interface with no graphics - no need to remind us how well they're doing now. When Craig's List outgrew its initial readership, they just moved to better servers and improved the coding and kept the same look and feel. Why can't we at least get the old 'retro' look (same type font, same colors) on the new software?
And last but not least - Red color has to go! I think it's almost identical to Zagat's.
re: David Ford
David - I'm fully aware of what you're talking about - it's the collapsible tree thread comment I made further upthread. Which has been asked for. Many times. By many people. In simple requests. And the Team is (hopefully) working on. Until then, people have to deal or move on.
I still prefer the new Chowhound.
No rants from me. I like the new system, especially the searching. And I never much complained about the old system.
I agree that once a thread gets over about 6 replies, it gets hard to follow and tedious to read. My suggestion would be along these lines:
1. A floating sidebar that follows you as you scroll, showing a compact tree view of all the replies and where you are in it. Sort of like Google Groups.
2. The ability to put a title on a reply that gets inherited by subsequent replies. Which would show up in the above outline.
3. A bit more thread status info in the topic list views, maybe on rollover. Not just who originally posted and how long ago, but also who last replied and when. And if the latest reply has a different title (see above), show that too.
Stuff like this would bring back some of the "scannability" that's been lost in the move to new software. The old beast had to be taken out back and shot, but there were some good things about it that the development team can learn from.
re: hatless
These are some really interesting ideas, hatless.
With your RoR background, I would love to see some mockups. And I'm sure the development team would only stand to benefit from such an effort.
As you can find the time, perhaps?
I wish that I could. But alas, I am only able to theorize concerning what it could (or should) look like once completed. English, after all, is the only language that I speak.
But you speak Rails! And a picture is worth a thousand words. :-)
Something to consider, I hope.
re: David Ford
Thanks. If C|Net or Mr. Hyett's team offer me a job, I'll code it. Right now, words and the occasional illustrative snippet will have to suffice. ;)
Since then I've had some thoughts on more radical list and thread view changes and sort of wondered if the time-tested and much-loved old expanded thread-list view could be mimicked in short (20-50 line?) scrolling snippets fetched via AJAX into a viewport. It would allow the sort of quick "scanning" many 'hounds liked without the gigantic and bandwidth-straining thread lists of the old site.
re: hatless
See, that is EXACTLY what I have been imagining! No big deal, right? Just mimic the old site but clean up/replace cycles creating unnecessary bandwidth overhead. Offer it as an optional view for those preferring to read threads that way. We don't need to see the whole board in tree form -- just one thread at a time. Just a perfect, simple hierarchial tree for each thread. Think of as a road map.
At least I *think* it is (what I have been imagining, that is). You may have lost me somewhere between AJAX and viewport. :-)
Still, it sounds like *you* know what you are talking about, so I am encouraged.
I haven't been on CH lately and this new interface came as a real shock today. Mostly, I dislike it. But what I truly find disconcerting is having to "register" after all these years of using chowhound. I know it's painless, and only took a second, but something about it really bothers me...
At first, I disliked it, and thought registering was a pain in the neck. But I think that was just because it was new. Now that I'm used to it, I rather like the new setup. I like how it posts messages with new responses so one doesn't have to search down that endless column that never fully loaded anyway. I like being able to track other hounds whose posts I enjoy, to see what they're up to. I LOVE the board page and have visited several new boards just because I can see them now. I've always appreciated Chowhound's close attention to list content, so I hope that will continue.
Just saw the new interface for the first time yesterday, but was unable to do much as most of the links didn't work--the server(s) must have been overloaded or down. Better luck today.
My first impression is *very* favorable. So far, what I like best is that the thread subjects are up front--no need to scroll through a monster thread to get to the next subject. I think that may encourage people to add to threads that they have bypassed because they got too far down the board too fast. And I haven't yet found anything not to like. Maybe later. <grin>
I agree that it's a bit harder to follow conversations. However, being able to quickly access a board without waiting minutes for it to load, etc., is a total joy.
I do see some problems with the new site, like the search engine sometimes comes up with 0 results when I know there's something there, and doesn't always seem to find relevant results. However, the benefits of the new system outweigh the problems.
Registering is easy....don't see what the big deal is about that.
Also, I had really cut down on my visits to chowhound before, because it was so cumbersome that I would just lose patience. Now I'm coming back often. I understand the problems people are pointing out, but perhaps some minor tweaks to the interface would solve some of the issues?


text:
WrestleMania 29 doesn't need to have HHH booked on the card
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Challenging SCOTT STEINER's authority
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,958
Re: WrestleMania 29 doesn't need to have HHH booked on the card
Originally Posted by
Undertaker has the streak which is what makes WrestleMania even better than it already is. We really don't need to see HHH because one, he's already in charge backstage, and seeing him wrestle is just simply pointless seeing as how he already has one job, he's boosting his ego way too much. Lesnar vs HHH is a pointless match, at least The Rock vs Cena serves a purpose as it would be for the WWE Championship AND it features the top guy in the company. Lesnar/HHH are both part-time wrestlers, it's really dumb honestly. HHH doesn't need to be on the card seeing as how he wouldn't even be the biggest draw, there are stars bigger than him and he needs to realize that. Brock Lesnar is the selling point, which means any of his opponents would benefit from facing him in the ring as the guy is 10x more the draw than HHH is.
"You insulted my wife??? My kids??? Let's fight at WrestleMania!" How many fucking times have we seen that?
Originally Posted by
Yes, their feud this time around would be much better than last year's, but again....is that really what we would need out of HHH and Lesnar for WrestleMania? There are better options for these 2 men to go with. If they had feuded at any other PPV that's not involved with WrestleMania, I wouldn't mind, but they're just hogging the spotlight from other guys who desperately need it for 'Mania. Their match would be a total waste of time in the end because as we all know by now they'd both leave and disappear again for awhile after WM ...
Exactly my thoughts. HHH/LESNAR II is a total waste. I hope HHH's gets booed out of the building if it takes place.
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Primer: Iran's nuclear activities and international responses explained
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Kabuki Japanese Restaurant - Pasadena
- Address:
88 W Colorado Blvd.
Pasadena, CA 91105Neighborhood:
- Cuisine:
JapanesePrice: $30 and under
Kabuki Japanese Restaurant - Pasadena
- Dining Style: Casual Dining
- Website: http://www.kabukioldpasadena.com/
- Phone: (626) 568-9310
- Hours of Operation:
Lunch: Daily: 11:00am - 4:00pm, Dinner: Monday - Thursday: 4:00pm - 10:30pm, Friday - Saturday: 4:00pm - 11:00pm, Sunday: 4:00pm - 10:00pm
- Payment Options: AMEX,Diners Club,Discover,MasterCard,Visa
- Cuisine: Sushi, Japanese
- Executive Chef: Masa Kurihara
- Dress Code: Casual Dress
- Accepts Walk-Ins: Yes
- Additional Details: Beer, Counter Seating, Full Bar, Happy Hour, Patio/Outdoor Dining, Personal wines welcome (corkage fee applies), Takeout, Wheelchair Access, Wine
A word from Kabuki Japanese Restaurant - Pasadena
Kabuki Japanese Restaurant, the folks that make Japanese cuisine for all walks of life. Never tried sushi and Japanese cuisine? Visit Kabuki and we promise you"ll walk out hooked on our food. That's what we do best; making non-believers into believers that Japanese cuisine is the new comfort food.Continued
When you walk into a Kabuki Japanese Restaurant, you won't be overwhelmed with Asian decor and soft slow music. What you will encounter is a fun, casual atmosphere with our friendly staff welcoming you through the doors.
Our food and beverages are passionately crafted by two gentlemen who are dedicated to providing you the best in Japanese cuisine as well as spreading the culture of Japanese dining to our guests. The tireless efforts of Executive Corporate Chef Masa Kurihara and Master Sake Sommelier Yuji Matsumoto are aimed to attain total satisfaction from you. They will be heart-broken if you feel otherwise. We look forward to serving you.
When you walk into a Kabuki Japanese Restaurant, you won't be overwhelmed with Asian decor and soft slow music. What you will encounter is a fun, casual atmosphere with our friendly staff welcoming you through the doors.
Our food and beverages are passionately crafted by two gentlemen who are dedicated to providing you the best in Japanese cuisine as well as spreading the culture of Japanese dining to our guests. The tireless efforts of Executive Corporate Chef Masa Kurihara and Master Sake Sommelier Yuji Matsumoto are aimed to attain total satisfaction from you. They will be heart-broken if you feel otherwise. We look forward to serving you.
Foodspotting photosSee all photos
Kabuki Japanese Restaurant - Pasadena reviews from OpenTable diners
4 reviews since July 31, 2014
- Food4Service4.3
- Ambiance3.5Noise LevelEnergetic
fit for foodies (1)good for groups (1)great for lunch (1)kid-friendly (1)great for outdoor dining (1)scenic view (1)Show More
- ExcitementLovedayDined on 10/1/2014First I would like to thank you for the invitation of Saki tasting. It was a great experience, reasonable fee, delicious rolls, happy faces serving the customers. Hope to get a chance for doing it again. I also would like it if u can have more seatings so I can bring in people ( my friends) Sincerely AASpecial Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- The following 21 reviews are from the Kabuki Japanese Restaurant - Pasadena reviews archive.
- Good FoodJaymanDined on 4/10/2014Excellent food for the price. Although the menu has changed, the food is still good and maintained as before.Special Features:
- creativeBennettDined on 7/16/2013With a sushi list as delicious as it is creative, this if definitely a short to go to.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Mmm. Sushi. Beer. Hot date.OpenTable Diner Since 2013Dined on 4/3/2013Mmm. Sushi. Beer. Hot date. Pasadena. All good things!Special Features:
- I'm not a pro about sushiOpenTable Diner Since 2013Dined on 1/30/2013I'm not a pro about sushi but I like kabuki a lot. Lots of choices but 2 sushi rolls didn't fill me up. I had to order a 3rd.Special Features:
- Great food, great service,OpenTable Diner Since 2011Dined on 12/6/2012Great food, great service, what more could you ask for?Special Features:
- Dinner meetingsOpenTable Diner Since 2012Dined on 8/27/2012I go there normally for business dinners, with co-workers to discuss projects it is a great atmosphere .Special Features:
- The Very Bad But Good EndingOpenTable Diner Since 2012Dined on 8/21/2012It was my wife and I 19th wedding anniversary and so I met my wife there, and we sat there for 10 to 15 min before I went up to the hostess and showed her a posting from Yelp. It said good food but the staff stands around talking to one another. I informed her she had better send a waiter over to our table or we were gone. A young man came over and at the time we didn't know he (David) was the manger, so we explained to him about the Yelp post and come to find out he had taken my e-mail reservation and he had felt bad to hear about our service, after that the food was coming out. But why should I have had to say anything at all about the service?Special Features:
- Food was good, actually reallyOpenTable Diner Since 2010VIPDined on 6/25/2012Food was good, actually really good. The setting is great right in Old Town. But honestly they need to get their service in line. The waitress served us two sake drinks with our appetizers and then asked for my I.D. when I ordered a Long Island Iced T?! Since I had left it in the car, she wouldn't serve me the second drink. Since we apparently had more than one server, I asked the other server that came to the table and he got it. They need to structure their staff better (or in the first place). And from what I've seen online this isn't the first time a service issue has popped up for this establishment...honestly would never come back because of that.
- not much variety of sushiOpenTable Diner Since 2007VIPDined on 4/2/2012not much variety of sushi selections available for happy hour.. but i enjoy hang out with friends there
- My first time there was great,excepOpenTable Diner Since 2011Dined on 11/28/2011My first time there was great,except for my date. I will be back for sure next time with a different date.Special Features:
- Date NightOpenTable Diner Since 2011Dined on 11/8/2011Very nice location for a group of friends or just a place for you and your girl/boyfriend.Special Features:
- Fresh Sushi, Affordable, FriendlyOpenTable Diner Since 2010Dined on 8/30/2011It's a great place to go to load up on sashimi and other clean raw fish, salad etc at superb prices, super fast, friendly, efficient and attractive, smiling team working there.
- Waiter brought incorrect dinnerOpenTable Diner Since 2011Dined on 8/15/2011Waiter brought incorrect dinner order to table. Waiter went on break around 7:30 pm without introducing our table to a stand-by waiter. Waiter left sushi order sitting at preparation station in excess of 20- minutes. We had to request our order by throwing our hands in the air. Too little help on the floor. Nothing was good here. I was embarrassed to have tried to introduce my friends to such a poor example of a quality restaurant.
- A Bit LateOpenTable Diner Since 2011Dined on 8/11/2011First of all, reservations mean nothing here. The attendant just took us to a table even though I told her that I made an appointment through Open Table and we get points for checking in. She said that her manager would take care of it at the end of the night. For several days the points didn't credit to our account. Just checked today and it did. However, I was doubtful whether the manager really would take care of it. I've been here before and the food is fair, nothing spectacular, but if you're in Old Town Pasadena and want sushi, this is the place to go.
- Did Not Honor Online ReservationOpenTable Diner Since 2010Dined on 8/4/2011The online reservation did not work for this restaurant. The host told me that it only worked for the other Kabuki locations. There was no wait, so it was not a problem, but why have the option of making reservations online if they don't go through. Also, the pasadena location did not take the coupons from Kabuki....oh well.Special Features:
- Kabuki Open table Reserv #481764JupiterVIPDined on 8/4/2011The restaurant had trouble finding my open table reservation confirmed on Aug 3rd for Aug 4th. Reservation confirmation # 481764 Party of (3) for 1:30pm. I have a paid receipt. Otherwise, the food is always very good, and the service is OK.Special Features:
- Unlike the Kabuki PasadenaOpenTable Diner Since 2011Dined on 7/27/2011Unlike the Kabuki Pasadena (Foothill Blvd) which we enjoy very much from food to service, this Kabuki Pasadena (Colorado/DeLacey) was surprisingly bad, and left a very bad first impression. The service which in my books would have compensated for the sub-par food, was terrible for a non-busy weekday. We could not flag a waiter to provide us the basic things. Perhaps under-staffed from the service standpoint for that day 7/27/11, I would tend not to venture to this particular Kabuki, again - at least not for any celebration dinner.
- Best sushi in Pasadena! GreatChrisVIPDined on 10/14/2010Best sushi in Pasadena! Great soba noodles. My only complaint is that service could be faster. After the food is delivered, you are abandonned and it's hard to get the bill. That's strange, because you would think they would want to turn the table.Special Features:
- Overall I had a lovely experience,OpenTable Diner Since 2011Dined on 10/11/2010Overall I had a lovely experience, it was my partners and I anniversary and we were treated superb. We ordered the 'Love Boat' which is always amazing and our server Jessica took really good care of us. I love this restaurant.Special Features:
- Eating at Kabuki was a worthwhileOpenTable Diner Since 2007Dined on 9/15/2010Eating at Kabuki was a worthwhile experience. The service was good; the waitresses were extremely pro-active. The food was delicious; the sashimi melted in my mouth. The restaurant atmosphere was relaxing; it's not too dark or too bright inside. If you ever go with a large group, consider getting the "love boat" item!Special Features:
- Service was great, the foodrlsbDined on 4/8/2010Service was great, the food exquisite, but the kitchen seemed a little disorganized in that the dishes were brought to the table sporadically and over a very long period of time. Perhaps it was just an off-night in the kitchen. We'll try again and see what happens.Special Features:


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The soon-to-be-wed couple meet up with the Mouses. Plus: Lindsay Lohan, Hilary Duff, Orlando Bloom and more
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Tuesday, October 24, 2006
"Lost Members" of the Church
My friend Peter Beck had a great piece posted on Baptist Press yesterday: "The lost members of the church." He begins by saying:
Baptists are a peculiar people. We insist that one make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. We insist that they be baptized before they can join our church. And, yet, some of us insist upon nothing else once they're members.
Equally peculiar is the fact that we Baptists claim to be a "people of the book," putting the Bible before all else when it comes to defining and defending our faith. Yet, we ignore its teaching on church membership.
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Loton adds Sandy Climan to advisory board
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Media industry veteran Sandy Climan has joined the advisory board of Loton Corp.
Climan is a seasoned media and motion picture industry executive, talent agent and producer, who currently serves as president of Entertainment Media Ventures, a media investment and strategic advisory company.
From 2007 to 2010, Climan served as CEO of 3ality Digital. Previously, he was a member of the senior management team at Creative Artists Agency (CAA). As the founding head of CAA's corporate practice, Climan helped guide Sony Corporation's acquisition of Columbia Pictures, Matsushita Electric's acquisition of MCA/Universal and Credit Lyonnais' restructuring of MGM.
"Sandy is a media stalwart who will be a valuable member of our Loton team," says Olly Bengough, chief executive officer of Loton Corp. "We are recruiting stellar industry and financial professionals to accelerate our entry into the music, entertainment, and branding segments."
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CFO FORUM mourns loss of Pierre Wauthier
27 August 2013
The Chairman of The European Insurance CFO Forum, Gerald Harlin, today expressed the deep shock and sadness felt by all members at the news of Pierre Wauthier's sudden death. "Pierre was a charming, thoughtful and pragmatic member of our Forum and a central figure in our group. We all enjoyed working with him immensely and will miss him greatly. Our condolences go to his family at this very sad time".
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Food Memories
- k
- Kathleen Jun 24, 2004 04:46 PM
The discussions about chains, cokes, and fast foods got me thinking about this phenomenom, which I haven't seen addressed here before. For me, there is a whole category of things I like to eat because I remember them as being a great treat when I was a kid. There are some foods that intellectually I know probably don't taste very good, but I still just love to eat them, albeit not often. A couple of examples, for me, are Van de Kamps frozen battered fish filets; and spam, broiled with a canned pineapple half on top, and barbeque sauce over the whole thing. My husband loves tater tots with Lawry's seasoned salt. I was talking to a friend of mine about this. She is easily the greatest chowhound I know, yet she confessed to still loving frozen macaroni and cheese. I'm curious to know if other chowhounds, who generally avoid fast food, processed food, and pre-prepared food, like the plaque, have a (no longer) secret love of some food that you know you wouldn't like if you tasted it for the first time now. And Mr. Taster, for me this is an aspect of our love for some foods that would generally be considered mediocre. I am quite certain I never saw an advertisement for spam with canned pineapple and bbq sauce! Whaddya think?
re: Judybird
Hey, that reminds me of another great treat! My mom made a grilled sandwich with cubes of velveeta and cubes of hard boiled egg, glued together with mayo and a little mustard. On wonder bread, of course! Grilled egg n cheese sands. I don't think I could eat that today.
Absolutely! Though most have faded with time, I still get cravings for Nutter Butters, PopTarts and Pineapple Delight.
Pineapple Delight, for those of you who were deprived as children, is a bag of minimarshmallows, soaked overnight in a can of crushed pineapple. Just before you serve, you fold in unsweetened whipped cream. The sour tang of canned pineapple, the sweetness of the softened marshmallows, the rich cream coating it all... I haven't made it in about four years, but it may be time for another nostalgic indulgence.
re: curiousbaker
My aunt made something like that, except it had the exotic ingredient of pistachio instant pudding added. I'm not sure if there were marshmallows or not. She called it a "salad" (hell, it was green!) and put it with the other veggetables at family dinners. I could see my Mother giving me the evil eye as I dug into it.
Of course, Mother was no saint herself in those days. We got fresh fruit salad rendered unhealthy with the additions of mini-marshmallows and sour cream. I wish I could remember what this was called.
re: sudiepav
Chicken loaf on wonder bread and then smashed so it all sticks together - didn't tast a bit like chicken but I have yet to find any thing else that tastes like it.
re: Aimee
Are you talking about Weaver Chicken Roll too????? Oh how I miss that stuff. I dont really care or want to think about what was in it lol, maybe thats why they dont make it anymore. You were able to mush it up, I guess its the liverwurst of chicken. I used to love to put cornchips or tortilla chips and mayo on the wonder with it. Sheesh
re: Dipsy
I thought that I was the only insane person who had an annual graving for this. The worst part about this is that my Mother never fed us TV dinners, and could not understand why I wanted it (and only the turkey, nothing else) when she could make me a great dinner in a matter of a few minutes.
I just had one a few weeks ago, and it is a shadow of its former self. They tried to dress it up, and it just isn't the same.
re: Sthitch
I agree. It was never the same once they changed from the foil tray to the microwaveable one. The potatoes just don't get that extra crispy "skin". Perhaps best left as a memory after all!
re: Seattle Rose
I loved (and still eat sometimes w/ salsa and black pepper) Kraft. My mom abhorred the stuff and couldn't understand why I turned up my nose at her homemade mac and cheese!
re: Seattle Rose
maybe it is the salt, or something...but my kids also preferred the box kind to my homemade!
and (sigh) they weren't even sophisticated enough to prefer Kraft to the generic brand! :-)
as for me, I love to eat canned vegetables (peas, corn, beets, sometimes spinach) straight out of the can with a little bit of salad dressing on top...and they are even better mixed together in a 'salad'! my hubby just looks at me like I am extremely strange......
otoh, my best childhood food memories were not of wierd processed foods, but of a few really good meals I had as a kid: like the time we went to visit a friend of my father who had been a cook on a cruise line, and apparently a good one, because I have never before or since had fried chicken with gravy that could even PRETEND to come close.....even thinking about it makes me want to cry in recognition of the sheer perfection of it all!
re: HDK
>>Those frozen chopped square beef steaks that were packaged with a pat of butter on each piece<<
I totally forgot about those! What were they called? We ate those when I was a kid, too.
I'm with those who like Swansen's frozen macaroni and cheese -- it has to be cooked in the oven so it gets a little brown crust around the edges, and topped with a slice of cheddar toward the end for extra cheesy goodness. I also still ocassionally like the Van de Kamps battered fish filets, served with the little powdered tartar sauce packet that you mix with hot water and mayo. Good with a side of homemade coleslaw. I probably went a good 15 years without eating either of the above, but in the past 5 years or so, will have one or the other every couple of months, when I'm tired and feeling the need to curl up on the couch and "veg-out."
re: Chowpatty
oooh yea, tuna noodle casserole made out of Campbells cream of mushroom soup, Velveeta cheese, canned tuna and noodles. My mom made it quite "gourmet" with the addition of pimentos. We called it nuna and toodles. I'm loving this thread!
re: DanaB
I grew up in L.A. I don't remember the Black Hawk brand but we had Camp's Frozen Chopped Steaks, either beef or veal. Two oval shaped chopped meat patties were packaged with the butter pats.
A dish from a recipe that used Camp's chopped veal steaks was one of the first meals that I learned to cook when I was in my early teens. Onion and bell pepper slices were sauteed, then combined with a can of Campbell's cream of chicken soup and some white wine. The Camp's steaks were browned in a skillet and the sauce was poured over them. Fond memories!
Nostalgia may be the most potent flavor enhancer there is. (And I'm right there with you on the Kraft mac & cheese Seattle Rose.)
re: Chas
I loved Howard Johnson's frozen corn sticks and blueberry sticks; so did my kids - you put them in the toaster. Then lots of butter. Great!
Speaking of great, I still love Sugar Frosted Flakes. Go, Tony.
I go way back to the original Swanson TV dinners in the '50's - in the metal trays - the turkey and dressing was my favorite. Perfect while watching I Love Lucy or Superman. D.
re: Browniebaker
I'm with you! Swanson's - they had the best crust!
re: Sweet Pea
Yes, Swanson's was great. Another one for me is Rice a Roni, fried rice or chicken flavor. Kraft Italian bottled salad dressing. Canned cranberry sauce, the jellied kind. Stuffing mix. Pop tarts, preferably raspberry without frosting, toasted lightly with a little butter.
re: Sweet Pea
My husband asked me to make my homemade chicken pot pie resemble Swanson's, of which he had fond memories. I added yellow food color to the filling, that seemed to do the trick!
re: Browniebaker
I loved those - except when there was no bottom crust - what a dissapointment!
re: Sweet Pea
Agree. All-around crust is a must. That's the type mom always bought, and even when I make a pot pie now, I have to make top and bottom crusts. You need the right crust-to-filling ratio.
re: Browniebaker
I loved those too as a kid; the crust was the best part.
I tried them again a few years back (hadn't eaten them in years) and they're just not the same. The filling is about the same but the crust isn't as good as I remember.
My-T-Fine Regular Chocolate Pudding (the kind where you had to add milk and stand at the stove and stir for a long time) with Reddi-Whip whipped cream out of the can
Wagon-wheel shaped macaroni (no such thing as "pasta" back then), mixed with butter, salt and garlic powder
"Chocolate Snaps" cookies dunked in milk
P&J sandwiches (Creamy - never chunky - Skippy or Jif with Welch's Grape Jelly) on Arnold's white bread
(Yes, and I did sing the Jelly Beaner song)
Your question is great. I like to think I'm a great cook who searches out the best produce and organic meats, but here are my secret indulgences:
Kraft macaroni and cheese (the blue box). I actually must confess to disliking any "gourmet" homemade mac and cheese. The blue box was my friend when I was famished after swim practice in high school. I think it is associated with joint feelings of accomplishment and indulgence.
Frozen ding dongs are my comfort food when I am really depressed. When frozen they have a crackling chocolate outside and a firmer "cream" filling. This is something I could NOT have when I was growing up, so I think I like them because they are forbidden fruit!
Most of the food of my youth is lost. Weaver Chicken Roll, Sara Lee Brownies, Sunshine Peanut Butter Wafers (the square ones). Buitoni toaster pizza, anyone remember? I emailed the company and they said they never carried that product. I favor Mrs. Pauls and my kids will only eat Kraft Mac.
re: Letsplay1
Well, they have one but it bears no resemblance to a gaucho anymore. Alas.
My mother wanted to be a scratch cook, but I think it was too hard with six kids, each a year apart! So she was a pioneer of what I think they call "quick scratch" (?), with canned soup being the most important ingredient. My favorites were chunks of chicken cutlet in Campbell's cream of mushroom soup over Jiffy cornbread; and shrimp in Cross and Blackwell shrimp bisque over rice. Her secret ingredient in all these dishes was a liberal dash of cream sherry!! That could very well be why I liked it so much, seemed so exotic. She was also big with Pillsbury crescent rolls, take leftover turkey or whatever, mix with some cream chees and spices to fill, roll in melted butter and breadcrumbs and bake. Yummy!My father was actually a better cook, and one of his specialties was Campbell's tomato soup, made with half milk and half water, with lots of wide noodles in it. The most satisfying meal in the world to me and all my brothers and sisters to this day.
On a similar note, I've always noticed that of the best chefs I know, if you ask them their favorite food, it is NEVER something upscale, it's either White Castle, chicken wings from a certain local joint, Kraft mac and cheese, etc. At least in my experience. I guess if you look at the fancy stuff all day, you can loose your taste for it.
re: Sharuf
Seriously? I dont remember exactly why I ended up stopping in a store in a spanish neighborhood a few months ago, but spied a can of the Cream of Shrimp. Still dont know what to do with it. Theres a recipe for shrimp dip on it, probably saving it for that.
Great post. Kraft M&C, chicken rice a roni, the peanut butter and bacon sandwiches my grandmother used to make for me, stouffers frozen macaroni & cheese or noodles romanoff, devil dogs, tuna noodle casserole, Sara Lee coffee cake, pound cake and brownies, yankee doodles...I know there is lots more but I can't remember. When I lived in the midwest for a few years, my then boyfriend and I went on a crazy nostalgia food binge for months. I remember one drunk night, making Kraft M&C with the ghee I had made that day, because I was out of butter and we just had to have it. Wow, that was fantasic! Gained a few pounds, needless to say! My parents were both scratch cooks, and my older brother was veg, so I grew up with mostly very good food. Still, being a kid in the 60s and 70s, I ate plenty of this stuff too. Oops, I just gave my age away!
Definitely Kraft Macaroni & Cheese from the box. I'm pregnant now and during my first trimester it was all I wanted to ease the morning (actually evening) sickness.
It didn't taste quite as good as I remembered, but it sure was comforting!
re: Far Far
Ahh - that reminds me of pizza sandwiches, the 8 of us would have these before payday when the budget was tight. Wonderbread buttered on the outside, leftover canned spagetti sauce(usually Prego) and a slice of American cheese grilled until crisp on the outside gooey in the middle
The Horn and Hardarts cafeteria (or was it an automat?) in NYC. I loved their crispy, whole wheat powdered doughnuts and their cream cheese sandwiches on toasted raisin bread. My idea of fine dining as a 5 year old.
And since its summer: marshmallow fluff and peanut butter sandwiches on white bread. We were only allowed to have this in the summer. Time to get fluff...
re: Letsplay1
You're absolutely right. It was CFON across from Macy's -- that's where I'd get my Easter frock. It's nice to know someone else remembers those doughnuts. They just don't make em like they used to.
I have fond remembrances of the standard balogna and white bread sandwich and of the grilled cheese sandwich/tomato soup combination. And then there were my mom's homemade fried scallops and french fries . . .
In our dormitory dining hall they would sometimes serve what we called "dog biscuits" and most of the gals professed to loathe them. I actually liked the things - they were pinwheels of biscuit dough stuffed with mystery meat and topped with brown gravy. I have an old Sunset Magazine cookbook with a recipe for something of the sort, and will try it when I'm in a nostalgic mood.
After college, I discovered Swanson's chicken / turkey / beef / (and I think pork) pot pies, and the love affair with those continues. I also discovered Mrs. Paul's crab cakes, which were the height of pre-fab elegance. Alas, they haven't been seen in many years.
A group of us were just talking about this yesterday at lunch.
One gal said her mom made chick in a hole. It turns out to be what my mom called chick in a nest. Cut a hole in the bread with a glass, then butter both sides, put in a fry pan, crack and egg in the middle,
and cook, flip over, and cook until done.
I also remember fondly Sarah Lee pecan swirl coffee cake (frozen section), but don't have much of a sweet tooth any more. It was either that or Helm's bakery french twist donut or maple bar.
I also remember her making a chocolate pudding cake from a box. Pour the dry mix in a pan, pour water over it, bake in the oven. No mixing. My brother and I are still seeking it out. The closest thing I have found to the deep and creamy chocolate flavor is the chocolate souffle at French 75 in Laguna Beach.
The spicy end of a pot roast.
Corn fritters with maple syrup from Henry's (chicken restaurant in Pasadena).
Kraft mac and cheese is a favorite and I usually make it and indulge when I am baby sitting Angela. But, the frozen Stouffer's is pretty good, too. They have that brand in the hot deli at Ralph's market.
Cocktail meat swirls - packaged meat spread with cream cheese - maybe a green olive with pimento slice - and rolled up.
Green jello salad with cottage cheese and celery mixed through it.
Beef stew with a bay leaf and the bone marrow (that Nana would spread on a cracker for her, swoon, then for us).
My high school cafeteria made something called gloirfied rice, it was a rice pudding with maybe maple syrup, crushed pineapple and whipped cream? Something like that, it was divine.
Then there were potato chip sandwiches. Humpty Dumpty chips on soft white bread, Hellman's or Kraft and then smashed together.
My mom always kept that Kraft Mac and Cheese on hand, I never cared for it but my siblings did. She made great homemade mac and cheese and I never understood why she kept that around. When she insisted on serving it I always had to doctor it up with lots of fresh cheddar.
Every 4th of July my mom still makes "meat spread". A hunk of good bologna, put through the meat grinder. Then hard boiled eggs through the meat grinder. Add sweet pickle relish, a little yellow mustard and mayonaise. It's great on those small dollar buns, but I love it so much that I eat on toast for breakfast!
Mom bought me an antique meat grinder at an auction so that I could make it for myself, but of course I never do. Only hers tastes "just right".
Can't remember the brand name but those canned beef tamales - I love those! Kinda crazy as I'm in L.A. and there's fresh tamales sold all over the place including a push cart that comes down my street once in a great while.
Potato chips and mayo sandwich Candy? Remindes me of my sister who likes ice cream and chips together.
re: Rae
I'm with you on the canned tamales. They are admittedly way inferior to and nothing like the authentic tamales that are readily available. Still, every once in a while, I get a craving for those same canned ones I had when I was young. If I were tasting them for the first time now, I'd probably not like them. Hormel is the oldest brand I remember. I've also had the Gebhardt and Paramount brands. Not much difference between them.
I just thought of something else from my youth...
I have no idea where my Mother came up with this but on occasion she would heat up a packet of Lipton's chicken noodle soup mixed with a can of Campbell's bean with bacon soup. I know it sounds somewhat horrid but it actually tasted pretty good. To give the soup some legs she would sometimes put some "coins" of Oscar Mayer hot dog in it...
This post made me realize there are quite a few foods that I associate with childhood and have a fond attachment to which is way beyond how they taste. I am not sure if I want to try them now, and maybe lose the powerful memories?
Supposedly the sense of smell is the strongest connector to the memory areas of the brain. I don't know. All I have to do is think about the flavor of Blueberry Sara Lee Coffee cake, which my grandmother served as a treat when I stayed with her during summer vacation, and I can picture everything about sitting at the table with her, the bauer dishes, the morning radio going.
I probably wouldn't be too excited about that coffee cake if I bought one today, but I might, just to see.
I have spoken with my brother about some of the foods I remember our parents making for us a kids. The same things I remember fondly he is grossed out by. Not sure what this means....for his therapist to decide.... :-)
There are some foods I remember that stood out and still would, like my grandfathers amazing homegrown melons
But this is the junk foods list I confess:
Chef Boy Are Dee Cheese Ravioli, I will even eat these cold from the can.
Chocolate Pudding Cake from a box
BBQ potatoe chips
This isn't exactly a positive food memory but I had a college roommate who was saving up for a receiver so the only thing she would buy with her food allowance was spagetti, margarine and garlic powder. I swear she ate this every night for months! Thank god I was on the (only slightly better) school meal plan. Perhaps we need a worst food memories thread.
Those shortcakes that they sell in the produce section beneath the strawberries to make strawberry shortcake. Mom would pour a little milk over the cake to moisten it up, slice a few strawberries over it, then spray on the Whipped Cream out of an aerosol can.
Baskin-Robbins Mint Chocolate Chip and Chocolate Mousse Royale flavors.
Homemade rice kripies treats.
Fudge brownies made from a mix.
Kraft Mac and Cheese.
Mom's Chicken Divan which was broccoli, chicken, mayonnaiase, cream of chicken soup, topped with bread crumbs and baked. Mmmm.
My dad grew up in Rochester and when I was a kid and we would visit my grandparents at their place on the lake, my grandfather would barbecue Tobin's Redhots and Whitehots. The whitehots were minibrautwursts. I remember that there were all kinds of foods we would eat at Oma and Opa's that seemed incredibly exotic - noodle salad with the tiny ring noodles, Nancy's Mustard, Schweps Bitter Lemon and for the adults, Genessee Cream Ale.
You can find Nancy's and Gennie pretty much anywhere now, but the others, particularly the Tobin's Whitehots have an illusive, Shangrilah-ish quality to them. I'd love to find some and send to my father as a special treat someday.
Great thread. For me, it was Chef Boyardee canned ravioli. We never had food like that in our house but a friend of mine did. When we were 11 or 12, she and I used to play this game called "restaurant" at her house. One of us would survey everything in her house and make a menu and the other would be the customer, choose an item and the "chef" would make it. No matter what else she put on the menu - ever - I always ordered the ravioli. One time she didn't put it on her menu and I had to make a special request. Mmmm.
And of course, Kraft mac 'n cheese. I would mix 3/4 of the cheese powder with some milk to make a cheese sauce. Tossed the macaroni in a bit of butter with pieces of a Kraft single, then added the cheese sauce and the remaining cheese powder to finish. Sometimes with tuna. So so good.
Oh yeah, and my mom used to sometimes make this side dish with chicken. She would take canned peach halves and fill them with mini marshmallows, topped with shredded coconut and then broil them in the oven with a bit of oj/peach juice in the pan. Those were great.
Here is an American Meat Institute "luncheon meat" ad from 1947 - complete with pineapple and barbeque sauce :-)
re: GEM
Wow does that look, um, good, yea, good! Well, I wasn't born yet when that ad came out, but my mom may well have seen it. The pineapple juice seems to have morphed into pineapple slices in my family, but there's the spam and the bbq sauce, just the way I remember it. Wow, what a find!
My all-time favorite frozen food when I was a kid in the 50s was Stouffer's Lobster Newburg. The original version was just a frozen block which had to be defrosted and heated for serving in a double boiler. Big chunks of lobster meat in a lovely, thick, winey sauce. I'd eat it over toasted and buttered Pepperidge Farm white bread. In later years, it was reincarnated as a ghost of its former self - a few scrimpy pieces of lobster meat in a much thinner sauce in a boil-in bag. Now I guess it's been discontinued altogether. What a shame...
To this day, Smucker's Seedless Red Raspberry Jam makes me happy; I always have it in the house. As a child, it had to be on untoasted Pepperidge Farm white bread with butter. These days I prefer it on toast with butter. Oddly, I tend to buy "fancier" jams and jellies in other flavors.
Fritos. I don't really like them but, once in a while, mom would make hot dogs (no buns) and Fritos for dinner. Since mom didn't use a lot of pre-packaged foods, this was rarity when she was at her wit's end. Sometimes, Fritos just sound good.
I could probably think of a bunch of other things that I like more from happy memories than because they are all that great, but those two come to mind first.
Great thread.
I know this is gonna gross out a lot of people, but one of my most cherished food memories was of prechewed toast and coffee. Yep, that's exactly what I said, prechewed toast and coffee. When my brother and I were little tykes (probably no more then three or four), both my father and grandfather would feed us this concoction. First, they'd take a bite of toast and give it a few chews. Then they'd take a sip of REALLY sweet coffee, chew the bolus a couple more times, and then put it on a spoon and give it to one of us. I don't recall that we fought over it, but I do remember really wanting my share. Now, 40 years later, my mom says she always had to leave the room, and my wife thought I was kidding until my grandmother confirmed it. If I close my eyes and think about it, I can almost feel it in my mouth, and I'm awash in warm feelings.
The other day, tho, my dad asked if I wanted some prechewed toast and coffee, and I said, "Uh...no thanks."
re: ricepad
ok, yes, that grossed me out!
re: ricepad
Oh, I thought it was pretty sweet. Not much grosses me out these days though, what with two toddlers hanging around. ;-)
re: ricepad
You have to wonder whether that is exactly how our ancient (and maybe not so ancient) ancestors fed their toddlers eons ago.
This thread brought to memory a little slice of heaven from my childhood: a plain slice of buttered white bread smothered with sugar. A friend of my great aunt would always give me some whenever my great aunt visited her with me in tow. I think I loved that treat more than just about anything else, even ice cream. It must have been the origin of my sweet tooth.
School cafeteria food. Love it! The first time I had cream of wheat, it was in my elementary school cafeteria. I'd never had it and I still remember how incredible I thought it was. I don't have many vivid memories of my childhood but that is one memory that stands out- how sad is that? I also loved the cubed turkey and gravy that the cafeteria served up. I also loved my mom's fried spam and boiled hot dogs. I often long for KFC from the 1970s. My grandmother insists they haven't changed their recipe but everytime I have it now, it's really awful and I recall a crisper and tastier fried chicken in my childhood. Am I crazy? I'll always adore Ruffles and Lays potato chips.
Mine would have to be
-Hot dog roll-ups made with pillsbury crescent rolls.
-I don't think they make it anymore but...Whip-n-chill or Jello 1-2-3.
-Pop tarts
Agree with tater tots. With lots of ketchup. Buttered egg noodles. Campbell's soups with grilled cheese. Mashed potatoes and gravy (my husband makes a killer version with garlic. Old and newer tastes. Doesn't get much better than that). Mac n' cheese, especially with Velveeta. Ice cream with hot fudge. Tuna casserole, which my mom still makes. All of these foods are true comfort foods to me.


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Recent Posts
October 22, 2009
Interested in seeing what this relatively new technology, the internet, has to offer in order to empower the voice of women and children on the world stage. Too much suffering! We need to coordinate actions to influence politics to effectively dedicate resources towards constructive efforts (food, housing, heatlh, education, peace) and away from the formidable war industrial complex.