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How to decrease Zombie Threads: collapse everything that's more than 4 years old!!
- Kris in Beijing Jun 7, 2014 08:36 PM
Does anyone think that MAYBE that would decrease the resuscitation of ancient threads?
As an example-- if I were to open a "you might like" suggested post and then see that it was all already grayed out, I might be more likely to notice that the thread is from, oh, 2008!
Other than time-sensitive topics like restaurant reviews/recs, I am glad to see Lazarus threads, as they consolidate the discussion of a given topic rather than scattering it to the winds with multiple redundant threads.
I make a point of checking the original date when I open a thread so this is not an issue for me.
re: greygarious
Hmm, maybe do something with old posts on regional boards?
re: greygarious
I love when VERY old threads are resurrected.
There is deep history for a few things, and when they surface I silently shout YAY!
When they reference closed restaurants? No.
When they bring new conversation, I say YAY!
re: greygarious
I get caught mostly when I'm on the small screen, where those details aren't listed
by the Sidebar/Bottom YouMightLike/ Recc'd Threads
Been down this road before. There is a great deal of support for old topics. There's just no good way to get people to realize they're replying to one where their post is pretty useless. Sometimes it's intentional.
So- I'm the only one who is MORTIFIED when I add a casual "oh my gosh me too" or even something significantly more substantial to a thread that's from 2009? 2003!?
C'mon people-- I can read.
I've been tasked, and I see it all the time, by replies like
"Since this thread is four years old, she probably figured out what to do."
Or is it some tiny validation of pride(?) to snark at a probable newbie?
re: Kris in Beijing
I've seen comments like that before and I think it just reflects that people have different opinions about the resurrection of old threads. For me, if a thread already exists and you have substantial information to contribute or a similar question then it makes sense to just resurrect it. I have searched plenty of old threads and found the information that I needed so they are worthwhile. I'm not sure why people get worked up about old threads. In some instances, the issue is when someone resurrects an old thread and asks a direct question to someone who has posted in that thread who likely is no longer on Chow. In addition to the comments above, there are comments from the other side of the camp which consist of links to old threads suggesting that you search and post on old threads before posting a new thread of the same topic.
re: fldhkybnva
Agreed. I think based on the wealth of information found in old threads and the cross-referencing of other threads, I've been hesitant to start a new topic in fear that I overlooked my search results and am creating a redundant thread.
For instance, instead of starting a new thread, I just contributed to someone else's thread who had a similar situation. For people who want to build on knowledge, I feel like posting on an old existing thread makes it easier to find and is a nice compilation.
But based on my very limited experience, it seems like if you're asking a specific question, it'll fare better on a new thread than posting on an existing or old thread, even if it's similar. Perhaps people are only encouraged to respond to new topics that don't have as many responses yet.
re: Kris in Beijing
You can Flag those snarky replies, and we'll delete them.
re: The Chowhound Team
Ya mean like my snarky response where Kris in Bejing types : " I'm on the small screen, where those details aren't listed " and I make fun of someone with a ...umm... "small device."
I still laugh at that one. (Nothing personal) :-)
I read thread dates. Most others do too I bet . Well- unless you have a small device. Again, it doesn't get old. LOLZ
CBS Interactive does not do post counts so there is nothing to gain by dredging up an old thread other than seeking more knowlege or not knowing any better.(Am I right CBS Interactive and mods?)
Listen to any talk radio cooking show or link to any food forum ( I do both on the weekend) and you'll still get a lot of the same quesitons asked.
New folks wanting to get into cooking. Old recipes that folks are unsure of.
Hell, 2008?
I cook out of cookbooks from the 1950's and some from the 1920's
ZOMG , they had printing presses back then? WTF?
Damn you Gutenberg and Bi Sheng.
Sounds like you want a "trending" catagory vs. what the rest of us see as topics. Don't like a topic? Don't click and move on.
It's amazing how well that works.
I do it ALL the time.
Or maybe it's my morning coffee.
But I still love you all -- <3
And you knew that.
re: jjjrfoodie
Hmmmmm... sounds like a personal problem to me!! (and a smallll one, at that)
re: The Chowhound Team
Hey, Team:
What's snarky about pointing out pointing out that the poster is directly responding an OP about something truly stale and useless, like what to have for dinner tonight or which frypan he/she should buy for a friend's wedding--in 2008?
I perfectly understand how it might be *expressed* in a snarky way, but to just broadly state that you're going to encourage the whole snitching/poofing is just a return to the overmoderation of the past. I thought we'd moved on from that.
re: kaleokahu
But the people who posted back in 2008 aren't probably reading it today but people who are interested will find it.
re: c oliver
Hi, c oliver:
Um, who could possibly be interested in getting the OP an "answer", when he/she decided 6 years ago?
Now, I understand when it occasionally happens that the new poster asks something like: "Well, what'd you decide? I have the same issue." There's arguably some value there, provided the OP is still around.
But frankly it's sheer foolishness to tell the OP to get A when it's obvious the Conestoga wagon is already in Oregon.
I confess that I have a few times missed the cobwebs, and replied directly to an mouldering thread's OP as if it was current. This happens a lot here whenever someone makes the initial error, thereby bumping the thread and tempting more entries where angels fear to tread. Ultimately, IMO it dilutes the useable content by burying current content and sheer repetition.
It's still foolishness, and I appreciated others pointing out mine to me when I've done it.
re: kaleokahu
My point, poorly explained, is that someone TODAY may be considering some piece of cookware and the post is helpful.
re: kaleokahu
I have to add, as much as zombie posts sometimes bother me, that the way most posters seem to function here............ the timing of previous posts doesn't seem to have much impact on many people. They post to whatever the bottom post is (sometimes they'll read up-topic a bit), regardless of the original topic question or the timeline of posts. It could be a lack of understanding of the structure of the boards, or simply a desire to get into a conversation (old or new), or sincere interest in contribution something regardless of timing.That's just been my observation here.
re: kaleokahu
Can you comment onmy answer on the "Stop me from helping" thread?
See, this is how I felt too, until about a week ago.
However, with this thread and my own Zombie Resuscitation thread, I have had my mind changed.
The OP is irrelevant beyond being an introduction to a topic.
Want a non-fish dinner for tomorrow's 2014 Fathers' Day at a comfortable chain restaurant for 80yr old Dad?
Don't expect any topically relevant answers (although you may get 2 or 3 in the beginning).
Instead, expect posts from now until Kingdom Come about what you have introduced: fish/no fish, chains, and who's food desires trump whose.
"Hounds gonna hound."
re: Kris in Beijing
Hi, Kris; "The OP is irrelevant beyond being an introduction to a topic."
Yes, that is the unfortunate *result*, not the premise.
With regard to the "Helping" thread, it may help to think of the world of posts as comprising two hemispheres. There's the (roughly) half where the OP asks for help because they honestly want help. My sense is that these folks are generally civil in their responses, and unlikely to bite the hand offering to feed them.
The other half seems more interested in what they already know, be it showing off ab initio, or viciously volleying responsive posts.
I think it's akin to conversations at cocktail parties, where you can usually tell more from (and get more out of) the way people *listen* than what they say.
IMO, the older a thread is, the more likely we are to be on the dark side of the Earth.
We have a proverb in Hawai'ian that basically translates on a literal level to: "Not all knowledge is in your house." Everyone has something to learn about nearly everything from everyone else, and for me that's the #1 feature of Chowhound. Unfortunately, the medium of posting on line makes hubris easier than humility.
re: Kris in Beijing
Mortified is too strong a word. There have been a few times I've posted and then went "D'oh, this is from 2008" and then posted anyway.
I also tend to think that those who post snarky responses like your example above either
a) Lack the foresight to realize that other people besides the OP may read the post and find value in it when searching/scrolling through posts on similar topics (sure, the OP's birthday party has come and gone, but someone way after the fact posted about a really great caterer or restaurant that *I* found to be helpful when doing searches for birthday party recommendations), or
b) Are also the same type who like to nitpick spelling and get a boner by being a pedant instead of being truly helpful. (Don't get me wrong, I think spelling matters and I think it's rude to not take care when you're posting to avoid text-speak and rampant misspellings, but if I can tell you're making a good-faith effort or it's a random typo then I can ignore it. See also: the post on the MSP board where people chose to berate the OP for typing "dinning" when they meant "dining" instead of answering the question - though I think the worst of the replies ended up being deleted and a few did answer the question).
That said, I fall on the "there's still value in those old posts" fence and I would rather see someone resurrect and add something worthwhile to an old post than have numerous posts on the same subject just because we don't want to resurrect the old ones.
re: Kris in Beijing
I'm not mortified, but i do feel like I just wasted my time.
Coincidentally, as soon as I finished reading this thread of posts, I accidentally got caught up in a thread just revived from 2009. There was a "Red Velvet Cake" thread on General Topics. I had read about 5 of the posts- all very enlightening- before I noticed they were all from 5 years ago. Someone brought it back, had come 2014 comments to make, insights to offer. I don't need to add to their thread, but it was interesting reading. Works for me.
re: Florida Hound
re: c oliver
Sometimes the original post involves a fairly esoteric issue -- e.g., the OP lists a handful ingredients that he/ she has on hand and asks for advice on what to make for dinner in 4 hours. If the list consists of common pantry staples, then it is still of interest years later. But that is not always the case.
re: c oliver
I think, having now resolved that OP<CH, then it pretty much never matters WHEN.
However, I, personally, will still feel mildly put out if I begin to read a thread bumped to the top and then realize --40 posts in-- that the OP was talking about finding good restaurants to go to after the World Cup tickets they scored, in South Africa.
re: Kris in Beijing
Perhaps having recognized the issue, you'll begin to look on the OP date :)
re: c oliver
The OP date is not visible
A) on the board page on small media
B) on the Recommended Thread list
C) in the Trending list
Therefore, it's pretty easy to get pulled in to a discussion.
Somebody explain again why it's so awful that old threads exist, and that sometimes they get revived. I don't see why this is a problem. Some information gets dated and stale, but a lot doesn't. If I want to know a good place to eat in East Whereverville, I want fresh or current information. If I want to know the best way to vein a prawn or peel asparagus, old information is just as good as new information.
Editing out all the threads containing outdated information while keeping the useful old threads is more labor than any web site operator would ever be willing to pay for. We get free use of the site; the price we pay is some old stuff survives that should not. Hardly the end of the world.
re: fldhkybnva
The only time I find posting to a really old topic to be an issue is when I realize that I wanted to engage specific posters but the topic is old enough that they're no longer around. It's a "Duh!"omens.
Of course, if the topic is of interest, new posters will take it on...... and that's fine, just not what I'd wanted. Mechanically, it might be useful (as someone else alluded to) is an indicator showing 'last post 5 years ago'. I DO think that might help with the orientation of new posts to an inactive topic. OTOH, it ain't no big thang either way. ;o)))))
re: fldhkybnva
It's problematic when it happens on occasion on the Manhattan board, because the vast majority of threads are restaurant reviews or requests for recommendations and the dining scene is so volatile. Restaurants are constantly opening, closing, moving, changing chefs, revamping menus, not to mention the influx of food trucks, seasonal markets, food halls, events, pop-ups, etc.
re: kathryn
As I said above, I can it being beneficial for the regional boards.
Okay, no one else who cares, cares to comment : )
I HAVE thought about it a bit more,though, and I think there are 3 reasons why I personally dislike zombie/ Lazarus threads:
1) reading a 100+ line where people commented in-and-out over a few weeks and now it's a zillion posts long--> absorbing all of that in one reading is onerous.
2) information gets old. Really. Products are gone; White Lilly isn't the same formulation; a can of tuna is a 2.5oz pouch; most people on CH know about more chefs, personalities, and ethnic foods
3) People leave-- the OP may be gone,--or at least no longer worried about the query-- and primary posters have burned out on CH, and the heart of the discussion is over [sort of a repeat of #1, I know].
Kris now in DC/NoVA
re: Kris in Beijing
Kris, you do know about the pretty new "unfollow" feature? When they get beyond my patience,I click on that lovely yellow star and turn it gray and I never see that post again :)
re: c oliver
re: c oliver
I used that feature a lot this week :)
re: Kris in Beijing
I HAVE thought about it a bit more,though, and I think there are 3 reasons why I personally dislike zombie/ Lazarus threads:
1) reading a 100+ line where people commented in-and-out over a few weeks and now it's a zillion posts long--> absorbing all of that in one reading is onerous.
2) information gets old. Really. Products are gone; White Lilly isn't the same formulation; a can of tuna is a 2.5oz pouch; most people on CH know about more chefs, personalities, and ethnic foods
3) People leave-- the OP may be gone,--or at least no longer worried about the query-- and primary posters have burned out on CH, and the heart of the discussion is over [sort of a repeat of #1, I know].
Kris now in DC/NoVA
For your point#1: You can blame CBS Interactive for that.
They wanted to "go it alone" for a forum and create thier "own." I mod 3 fourms and Admin a fourth. All vBulletin software. CBS has no PM, limited email among users and shoves replys mid thread vs. at the end with a quote. It's a peeve or mine as well. But hey-they wanted to do it on their own. And we all deal with the glitches and "isms" that brings.
Point #2: No.
Restaurant info can get old due to the chef turnover rate and closings. Cooking info, not at all. Cooking utensils and machines do change but at a slow rate.
I still cook the same way I did 20 years ago. Sure I learn more tricks, but the old information and techniques never get old. And wow, chicken is still chicken where I live. Corn is still corn. A steak is still a steak. No change of information there. Ingredients change forms, sure, but it's still relevant information. So if I am trying to make a recipe from a 1960's cookbook that calls for measurments in cans or bottles that are NLA, then I should just scrap the recipe since that "old" information is no longer relevant?
I guess.
For me, I convert measuremetns of what IS available and make it work.
That's like saying hammers are obsolete because nail guns are available. Sure, but if you don't have electricty or an air compressor, then you're back to a trusty hammer. LOL.
Point #3:
Out of your control.
So a poster leaves and the posts they have made in the past are no longer valid suddenly?
A new poster may want to add on an additonal question that is directly in line with the OP. Why clutter up the forum with baby fragment threads when one will suffice?
If your true bitch is #1, than that's a site design issue.
Again, I mainly see old threads bumped on other sites to up post count for whatever the reason.
On Chowhound, I mainly skip them.
Easy Peasy. :-)
re: Kris in Beijing
Discussions about the best flour for biscuits remain viable, even if the start date is old. White Lily is still a Southern biscuit favorite, despite the old and discredited test by a Yankee newspaper.
Most often I encounter so called zombie threads when one appears in my 'following' list. One new post by someone who hasn't posted elsewhere is a pretty good clue that this isn't worth following further.
re: paulj
Did you mean this thread:
which is what I meant by the demise of W.L.
re: Kris in Beijing
I didn't see that thread, or at least didn't post on it. I posted on this one from that era:
is a more recent one on biscuit flour
I discuss the NYT test in
This biscuit thread is only 2 yrs old
I can't off hand find something from 2008 that has been continued or revived.
I'll start by noting that I have no problem with older threads popping up. Even if I open a thread without looking first, the original post date is in the OP so I can then see if it's a topic that might be time sensitive. As others have noted, there's very good information from very knowledgable folks inside of many of the boxes. There are some old threads that I have sought out on more than one occasion to reflect upon (some of fourunder's slow roasted meat experiments, for example, are timeless gems). Besides, until the internet connection is fixed in 'hound heaven, it's the only way anyone can hear the voices of, and learn lessons from, some wise souls.
To me, greying out old material is just a grant to laziness. It's basically implying that what's already been posted is not worth reading. I think we have enough waste with posts coming from people who can't be bothered to become familiar with what's even recently discussed. I realize my general "don't read, don't post" position may not be shared by many, but, that's OK, it's not like it's the first time I've held a minority belief.
Along those lines, you have to admit, when someone chimes in at the end of an 80-plus entry thread with, "I didn't have time to read any of the other posts, but . . . " and then proceeds to repeat the gist of many of the answers, it's pretty useless. Not to mention, you gotta wonder, what were they thinking? "I've only got a minute or two, let me pop into Chowhound and identify a thread that only I will know the answer to and help save the world"? Or, maybe, "Oh, look, 'Generichound' posted a question for me this morning and I'm only seeing it now. I better hash out a quick response. Poor thing had to suffer through all these other posts while she was waiting for me to get home." Hell, even I'M not that arrogant!
Maybe, the solution is much simpler. Perhaps the "Date Started" text on the Forums page could be "ungreyed" and made a bolder color?
re: MGZ
>>Maybe, the solution is much simpler. Perhaps the "Date Started" text on the Forums page could be "ungreyed" and made a bolder color?<<
^ that would make me [the OP] happy : )
Being on a small screen most of the time, the dates aren't available until I open a thread... blah blah blah...
My core problem is probably that I read too many NAF threads and they are more "time sensitive." Something the FDA decided about chocolate in 2007 that has 300+ replies already ... I hate myself for reading about 60 before I realize it's "ancient" in terms of the food-trend-news world.
My pet peeve with old threads is more local board orientated. I hate seeing a thread at the top of my local board that reads;
"Need suggestions for birthday dinner Sat. Night no Italian"
I open the thread to see someone responded with;
"Try Bob&Matt's Steak House"
Only then to realize that the OP was from 2008 and now 6 years later someone is making a suggestion.
Sooooooo my happy medium compromise on this topic is I think topic's on local boards, where most topics are location specific, be locked after 5 years. All general boards remain status quo, but lock the local threads. Even if restaurants are still open, still doing business, what value is information that is 5+ years old. Start a new thread about the place, update the information comments etc.
Of course once the Jr. board is created threads will NEVER be locked. Never ever!!
re: jrvedivici
So, kiddo, cause you don't look at the start date, CH should change things?!?!? J/K. But really in the grand scheme of things that need work, this seems to be not even on the cooktop much less a back burner. I do, however, agree that old regional board info rarely gives much value. But the Reno/Tahoe areas have few posts. So in your perfect world, if someone were searching, would even the 'locked' threads show up?
re: c oliver
Yes of course the locked threads would still show up, but I don't see a point on placing a new review for a place on a thread that is 5+ years old. Chef's change, managers change etc. If you do a current review of a restaurant in a 5 year old thread people could have trashed it, while you enjoyed it, but so many things could have changed over the years. I don't see how leaving old local threads open for new posts helps anyone.
re: jrvedivici
Can't remember if this has been mentioned. Would you be talking about the last or first post being five years old? I'm sure there are ongoing threads that started a long time ago but get updated on a periodic basis.
I honestly don't really care as long as the topical threads don't receive this treatment.
re: c oliver
I was thinking if we took a weighted average of the first post vs. the last post, divided by pi (preferably apple) that would be the date we count.
I honestly haven't given it that much thought and now my head hurts.
Join my petition for the Jr. board and I will put you on the board for the board, I can promise you will never get bored, ok? You on board?
re: jrvedivici
Now MY head hurts! But, yeah, I'm on board unless I get bored.
re: jrvedivici
We do ask everyone to bear in mind that Chowhound was never intended to be "Ask Jeeves" (speaking of zombie references!) where a poster asks a question, gets an answer, and that's the end of it. We view Chowhound discussions as a trove of chow tips, useful to the many people who read along with similar questions.
If you find yourself responding to an ancient thread and feel silly about it, you can console yourself with the thought that chances are good that someone else will see that thread today or sometime in the near future who is celebrating a special event and doesn't want Italian, and will be grateful for your information.
re: The Chowhound Team
By the same token the people looking for information on a specific location would be more likely to skip over a thread rather than rely on one 5+ years old.
A fine example on my local board (NJ) someone started a new thread looking for updated information on a restaurant. They said they read the other reviews but wanted updated info, the other reviews were within the past 12 months, but to this poster that was too outdated.
Just saying, I don't see any harm in locking local threads after 5 years, they are there for anyone to read and enjoy, but keep things current and relevant with more recent threads.
re: jrvedivici
jr, I'm curious. Does this negatively effect your CH time? It doesn't mine but we're all different.
re: jrvedivici
While you are correct that some people are more likely to skip over a thread with older information, we've found that just as many people are more likely to respond to an established thread, with previous reviews to act as launching points for current information, than to respond to a new thread on a restaurant that has previously been discussed. We don't want to dictate which is better, since both types of threads draw current information.
re: The Chowhound Team
A few months ago I replied to an old thread about a place in Prague. The OP had trashed the place and that was definitely not OUR experience at all. I deliberately replied there rather than starting my own thread because I wanted others to see our experience. After that others replied to the same thread in a positive way.
Hi, Kris:
Personally, I get a laugh whenever a poster tries to directly answer an OP's question from 8 years ago. I haven't been a Hound for that long, so I sometimes learn something, to boot.
They *could* do something like superimpose sags or wrinkles (or green mold) to clue people in that these aren't the freshest threads. You think?
re: kaleokahu
An analog to Rotten tomatoes?
Posts start brite green and fade to grey
is an example of a 5 yr old Home Cooking thread that revived just fine - and I don't even recall responding the first time around.
(It's about a recipe of pasta with tomatoes, breadcrumbs and dried chile peppers).
re: paulj
That topic has a total of 13 posts and is not time-sensitive in any way. I think the problematic ones are the long ones (50+) that have elements that become moot over time. It's really a matter if how one prefers to spend their time, but I find posting to some old topics sortof like messages in a bottle. That's perfectly fine if you have appropriate expectations.
re: Midlife
But, as has been said, except for regional boards, why would the age matter? Don't we all have recipes, techniques, etc. that are decades old in some cases?
re: c oliver
It's certainly up to the poster whether or not they want to add to a News & Media board discussion about a TV show that has been off the air for 5 years and the conversation is really irrelevant at this point. ;o)
re: c oliver
Ooh, yeah, I CAN see it happening with FMN. Do those threads really last that long. I don't usually visit that board.
re: c oliver
As with any board, there are people who find the topic somehow and just add to it from the last post without looking back up-topic at all. That's just the nature of what happens here. Thread drift also adds to this.
re: Midlife
Just did a quick look at FMN and found this thread from 2007:
It appears still relevant. So if even one is then I don't think they should be locked at a particular point.
re: c oliver
re: Midlife
:) It's an ongoing battle for me :)
re: c oliver
What battle? We figured it out already! Lock local board discussions after 5 years leave general boards open indefinite, where's the battle?
re: jrvedivici
junior, I think there's the rare exception on local boards and, if there's only one, then I wouldn't want to see them locked.
I rarely go to the CH 'home page' but when I do, if I see a thread that's old I rarely open it. If it's something I've replied to in the past I'll un-star it. Super easy.
re: Midlife
re: rasputina
We don't actually have an official opinion either way on this issue. People are welcome to continue old threads if the old threads still seem relevant and useful to them. People are welcome to start new threads if they want a fresh take on a given topic.
June 14, 2014. I just got a wonderful tip from a thread that has popped back up from 2008! Maybe some activity in 2010, too. But there was a very useful discussion on Horlick's malt powder, with a lot of related suggestions. I'm going to try to make a not-so-Brooklyn Egg Cream with "Malta" soda as a substitute for the seltzer. I even "replied" to the 2008 OP, whether they will see it or not. A zombie thread, maybe, but I'm please to get a new idea. (Looks like that thread is once again going strong in 2014...)
re: fldhkybnva
Did it make sense?
re: c oliver
Not to me. It seems someone started commenting in late April 2014 and there have been 3 replies since then. It's still relevant but now that threads are monthly it'd make more sense to post there. I provided the link, but how are threads from 2005 even coming up at the top of searches?
re: fldhkybnva
re: fldhkybnva
The Recommended Thread algorithm?
It seems to hit on keywords only.
re: Kris in Beijing
Crazy. The first post was actually a response to someone at the beginning of the thread. All of the users are "grayed out" so I doubt anyone will be responding to that response.
re: fldhkybnva
Those folks may still be around! When did Chow eat CH and the user profiles were lost? I though that was a bit before 2005.
I have no clue what my old ChowHandle was.
Back in the "looks like a BBS" days, I seem to recall that you put in whatever name each time you posted.
re: Kris in Beijing
Kris, I'm thinking c oliver's question below (what does "collapse" mean) may help us here when you respond. Beyond that, though, I'm curious as to what you're referring to re old handles and losing profiles. I've been here since the Jim Leff days and still have the same handle, though I wouldn't know how to find my profile on my iPhone if you paid me.
re: Midlife
Click on the name of the poster to get to the Profile. On mobile/ small screens it is not formatted similarly to the "computer" version.
On old posts (pre Chow), names are not linked and aren't clickable.
re: fldhkybnva
Weird thing about that revived 2005 TJ thread - the revivers are experienced CHers, not new, fly-by-night posters.
This topic was brought up before. The one argument against it that strikes home was the purging of great posters like Sam Fujisaka, and now Veggo. Please let them live as long as Chowhound lives, plus dear Danhole, aka Dani, from my Houston board, and many others we don't know about. God bless them all.
re: James Cristinian
Unless I'm terribly wrong, Sam and Veggo's posts are still here. And our other late-CH friends. What am I missing?
re: c oliver
Maybe I read it wrong, but the OP suggested collapsing everything more than four years old. Sooner or later all the posts will be "collapsed", which I took to be eventually eliminated. Is my reading comprehension off on this, if so I humbly apologize.
re: James Cristinian
Ya know, James, I guess I have the same question. What does "collapsed" mean? I have no idea. I just feel the current system ain't broke so....
re: c oliver
Collapsed is the opposite of expanded. If you open a thread, and you can see all the posts in their entirety, the posts are expanded. If you can only see the first line of each, they're collapsed. But not gone, because you can expand them if you want.
re: small h
Sorry, I should have connected those dots. So if it's expanded for you then it means you've never replied to it. But you're still at the top/beginning of the post, right? And can just 'hop' right out?
re: c oliver
If you open a thread, the expanded posts will be those you haven't seen before. If it's your first time opening that thread, then yes, you'll be at the top of the post. But! with the (wonderful) "first unread" feature, if you've previously viewed the thread, you'll be taken to the "first unread" post, which might be far away from the top, and the original post date.
Then, in order to see when the thread began, you have to take the exhausting and time-consuming step of clicking "home" in order to view the OP. Or, if you're unlucky enough to be looking at a teeny screeny, you have to actually. scroll. up. The horror. Think of the children.
re: James Cristinian
Collapsed = short, small
On CH, when you've read a thread, all the posts except new-to-you are both Collapsed and grayed.
re: c oliver
I still hunt down my own discussions with Sam, and that is a perfect example of why ~I~ would like a stronger reminder that threads are old.
Very recently I was reading a long RECOMMENDED thread, planning to comment if someone hadn't already mentioned my idea-- and there it was, a post from Sam.
So of course at that point, I checked the thread date and had a moment of silence.
Had I known upon opening the thread that it was old, I probably would still have READ it because I was interested in the topic. And I wouldn't have been … lightly stunned… to see a comment from Sam.
There is nothing to prevent OPs' including start date as part of the thread title. I try to remember do this when something is time-sensitive, e.g. "Blah blah blah (thread started 6/15/14)". Maybe if more people did it it would catch on and over time, fewer resurrected threads would be mistaken for new ones.
Here's a new post (this AM) to a seven year old topic. Nobody's replied since '07 and, presumably, the OP has long since gone beyond needing the input requested. But the OP's question has no time sensitivity and someone searching for help about locating a pot rack could use this now or in ten more years.
This one doesn't bother me in any way.
I think it could only work on certain regional boards, i.e., NYC, SF, LA, etc. Boards that cover large geographic areas have fewer comments on specific cities IME. If something, say, in Rocklin, CA has only ten posts in five years, I'm going to add to that rather than start a new one. I'd think from a mod standpoint, special handling of each board would be way too time consuming.
I posted enough in this topic to know that old topics will remain a reality, and am comfortable enough that most of what happens with them ranges from benign to helpful.
Here's one that just came up that was a new post to a 12 year-old topic. It's not really a big deal but posters had to get into the discussion to clarify that Costco no longer has the same open-ended return policy on electronics that it used to have.
I guess the new CH is now straightened out, and I certainly can't think of a way for the site software to filter such things. It just points out one of the negatives of the situation, hopefully outweighed by the positives.
There! I feel much better now! :o)
re: Midlife
I think that post (actually that whole subthread) should be flagged and deleted. Let the moderators moderate. Then they could gently point out the rules and perhaps bring to the person's attention that the thread was 12 years old. While you may feel better, the newbie probably does not.
re: MplsM ary
I'd agree but the site has been pretty adamant that they don't. Probably no realistic way to do it automatically, but locking once it is flagged would seem a good idea to avoid confusion. I'm guessing it's just not worth the 'cost' to the PTB.
re: Midlife
I've just learned and now I automatically check to see the date of the OP. It would be the rare one that I'd click on that's more than a few years old. It's funny though. There's a five year one where I was the OP and a couple of times a year someone will post on it. I feel duty bound to look at that one.
re: Midlife
OF COURSE there are tech-based ways to prevent this!!!
1) Colouring threads text a different colour once they are 4, 8, 12 years old
2) Changing the shading [like the "you've read this"] as a notice.
3) Creating a pop-up that says "This post hasn't has a response since 20xx, do you want to continue? Would you like to copy your post and start a new thread?"
4) Making the creation date larger on computers
5) Making the creation date VISIBLE on mobile
and 1000's more.
Some of those would be TREMENDOUS TROUBLE to code and create. Others would not be as complicated, in the scheme of things.
And a few would be REALLLLLLY easy.
HOWEVER, the bottom line is
is a subset of CHOW
which is "A TV Guide Site"
which is a subset of CBS Interactive Sites
There just aren't that many PTB who would care.
re: Kris in Beijing
Kris, isn't there also an element of 'all use is good use' at play here? I mean any user activity that isn't really degrading adds to the 'value' of a site. These zombies are annoying to us but not deadly to the site.
re: Midlife
re: Midlife
Yes... on many threads.
I have two objections
1) "Asked and answered" -- the answer has been given. It's a situation where there is ONE answer/ definition/ location/ name and it was solved.
But the new poster Doesn't Even Read all the other posts.
2) Time sensitive questions. Good location for Friday night after the Elvis concert?
But the new poster Doesn't Even Read the OP!!
I guess, really and truly, I have one singular objection:
The new poster Doesn't Read.
Everrrry once in a while, someone hops up and says "I know this is 4 years old but I wanted to say that __ has moved/ anyone else who wants __ can now get it ___" that kind of stuff.
Those, I like.
re: Kris in Beijing
Actually I was referring to the monetary value of this s site and why it may not be in the best interest of the site to do anything to curtail users' activity unless it had a detrimental impact on that monetary value. So many sites and apps are bought for the size of their user base and total user activity.
re: Midlife
I was limiting my thinking to the 'Hound World there with my answer.
Bring on the weird blog linking spammers! <-sarcasm alert
re: Kris in Beijing
Think of posts as being part of a never-ending, always changing, multi-generational family reunion. New posts are born and some posts have been around forever. New posts are welcomed and old posts are usually ignored. But then, just when you thought Grandma was dozing in a corner one of the kids asks her if she can twerk. And guess what? That's right, Grandma gets up and shakes her ass for all to see. Most folks laugh or ignore it. Some join in. Some are horrified and think it's a sign Grandma has overstayed her welcome. It's time she was sent away. And there should be a standardized way to determine fitness for all seniors to remain at the party, lest we are witness to another twerking oldster. Some think she can still contribute. She may still have something relevant to say.
Ok, I've obviously stretched that way beyond its breaking point. Thing is, only a few are bothered by this. Setting up rules to figure a way to archive threads YOU think should die is a waste of time when more basic things need tending.
re: MplsM ary
I'm not sure there's anything that posters here really get to tend. What did you have in mind?
Interestingly, the zombie threads seem to be back in full force! I can't seem to correlate it with anything other than site update, but interesting nonetheless.


text:
50 Cent - New Day Lyrics
The "New Day" lyrics by 50 Cent are displayed below.
Be sure to check out other popular song lyrics from this artist that are listed in the sidebar and "Like Us" on Facebook if you enjoyed reading 50 Cent's lyrics on our site.
Don't miss the latest news and gossip about the artist: "50 Cent Says 'Street King Immortal' is Still on, Out by September".
(feat. dr. dre & alicia keys)
It dont take much strength to pull a trigger
But try to get up every morning day after day and work for a living
Lets see em try that
Then well see whos the real tough guy
The working man is a tough guy
[hook: alicia keys]
Party people say party people say
Ay its a new day its a new day
World is gettin ready everybodys ready yeah!
For a new day for a new day celebrate and say
[verse 1: dr dre]
I woke up this morning thinking bout the old me
When i was feeling like miller lite and oe
But now i ride on some conscious shit
Im getting bread while i toast to my accomplishments
Only one i can have a problem with is myself
Its probably why my only competition is myself
From today to tomorrow
The doctor just rock to the same drum
Fuck the past though i aint forgot where i came from
I got the club rockin uh
I got your girl jockin uh
Me and fif still in this bitch bitch
We going the distance with you party people comeon
Lyrics provided by http://www.kovideo.net/
Source - http://www.kovideo.net/new-day-lyrics-50-cent-1301572.html
[verse 2: 50 cent]
Now you can get your knees on the church floor pray it get? better
Or push the door on the liquor store see where it get ya
But me i got to be on top
I said me i get to be on top
I got the street on lock
Im on automatic pilot ain't nobody stopping me
Growing up in poverty ain't filled my heart with larceny
Niggas ride i dont hide i dump to get 'em off of me
Im a leader ? natural born boss of me
They from bel air im from the bottom
Soon as i spot em i get to drop em
I got em i cut my piece and i dot em
Its dinner time when the 9 come out
Its off the chain off offa the brain move
Bang off with ya brain
[bridge: alicia keys]
Clocks on the wall
Its now or never at all
Im gonna give it my all oh-oooh
Whether i rise or fall oh-oooh
[verse 3: 50 cent]
True story i said id get rich or die trying
I did it good luck sucker trying to stop my shine
Nothing matters but the music music my first love
We paper chasin im always coming in first cuz
Im built for it see im better under pressure
I react like a maniac when im coming to get ya
I got to win em watch and dre watch and my son watching
Fuck that losing ain't an option
Im sharp im on point
The ink from my ballpoint
Throwing out my pain
Im back on my a-game
Im focused for me this is just another victory
Except that im stronger than an ox now mentally
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
Lies. Murder. Sword fights. After her mother's untimely
death and her father's remarriage to the murderer, Hamlette is
looking for vengeance in this modern retelling, gender-reversed
version of Shakespeare's classic tale. Performances are 2 p.m.
Saturdays and Sundays from Sept. 7-15.
The Naperville Park District and Magical Starlight Theatre
presents the fairy tale of Snow White. A sign language interpreter
will be present at the 2 p.m. performance on Sept. 8. Performances
are Sept. 6-8 and 13-15 at Naperville Central High School Little
Theatre, Entrance #3, 440 W. Aurora Ave., Naperville.


text:
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Have you ever gotten drunk and thought, "Man, burrrp, I wish I could go back to prom and do it all over again. I would really, hiccup, show them." Well, if you sobered up, you might realize going back to your real prom is a horrible idea, but taking part in the 11th annual '80s Prom at The Vagabon ... More >>
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Tea Party favorite Palm Beach-area Rep. Allen West will not have his good name tarnished by any gay nonsense, no sir. The social conservative and staunch opponent of gay rights fired an intern after the poor kid retweeted a pro-gay message by the Scissor Sisters.
Courtesy of Peace BisquitCazwell and Amanda LeporeIn a recent episode of NBC's 30 Rock, Jenna was sad 'cause she was going to miss out on going to Elton John and Tom Ford's New Queer's Eve. She had broken up with her cross-dressing boyfriend Paul, just as they were planning to go together as ... More >>
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Study the craft with award-winning industry peeps
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Tracy Morgans coming, ankle bracelet and all


text:
Rafael van der Vaart
Position: Midfielder
Team: Hamburger SV
Born: February 11, 1983 (age 31)
Hometown: Heemskerk, Netherlands
Height: 5ft 9in
Nationality: Dutch
Result: Rafael van der Vaart penalty takes Hamburger SV past Bayer LeverkusenRafael van der Vaart's penalty takes Hamburger SV out of the Bundesliga relegation zone with a 1-0 win over Bayer Leverkusen.
Nov 1, 16:26
Team News: Rafael van der Vaart starts for Hamburger SV against Bayer LeverkusenHamburger SV captain Rafael van der Vaart returns to the side for the Bundesliga meeting with Bayer Leverkusen.
Nov 1, 13:49
Result: Hertha Berlin cruise to victory over Hamburger SVHamburger SV suffer another disappointment in the Bundesliga as Hertha Berlin record a comfortable 3-0 victory.
Oct 25, 16:26
Team News: Lewis Holtby named on Hamburger SV bench for trip to Hertha BerlinLewis Holtby drops to the bench for Hamburger SV's Bundesliga clash with Hertha Berlin on Saturday.
Oct 25, 14:03
Team News: Arjen Robben returns to start against Hamburger SVArjen Robben returns to the starting lineup for Bayern Munich's clash with Hamburger SV on Saturday afternoon.
Sep 20, 13:45
Preview: Hamburger SV vs. Bayern MunichSports Mole previews Bayern Munich's trip to face struggling Hamburger SV in the Bundesliga.
Sep 19, 03:21
On this day: Real Madrid reach 5,000-goal landmarkSix years ago today, Guti scores Real Madrid's 5,000th La Liga goal in a 4-3 victory over newly-promoted Numancia.
Sep 14, 10:05
Rafael van der Vaart expects Lewis Holtby impactHamburg captain Rafael van der Vaart is confident that loan signing Lewis Holtby will be a success at the club this season.
Sep 13, 12:34
Team News: Hamburger SV unchanged for Paderborn testMirko Slomka resists the temptation to make changes as Hamburger SV take on SC Paderborn in the Bundesliga.
Aug 30, 13:45
Result: FC Koln, Hamburger SV settle for drawFC Koln and Hamburger SV start their respective Bundesliga campaigns with a 0-0 draw on Saturday afternoon.
Aug 23, 16:31
Team News: Valon Behrami, Johan Djourou named in Hamburger SV sideValon Behrami makes his Bundesliga debut for Hamburger SV, while Johan Djourou also starts against FC Koln on the opening weekend of the season.
Aug 23, 14:23
Result: Hamburger SV need penalties to beat Energie Cottbus in DFB-PokalHamburger SV reach the second round of the DFB-Pokal by beating third-tier side Energie Cottbus on penalties.
Aug 18, 20:15
Steve Bruce rubbishes rumours Hull City are interested in Danny WelbeckHull City manager Steve Bruce rubbishes talk that he is interested in signing Manchester United striker Danny Welbeck and Hamburg's Rafael van der Vaart.
Aug 15, 10:28
Hamburger SV rule out Rafael van der Vaart saleHamburger SV chairman Dietmar Beiersdorfer denies that Rafael van der Vaart could depart the club this summer amid reported interest from Queens Park Rangers.
Aug 13, 13:18
Rafael van der Vaart coy over Queens Park Rangers switchHamburger SV midfielder Rafael van der Vaart reveals that he is on good terms with Harry Redknapp as reports link him with a move to Queens Park Rangers.
Aug 1, 09:54
Harry Redknapp hints at Rafael van der Vaart moveQueens Park Rangers boss Harry Redknapp hints at a move for Hamburg playmaker Rafael van der Vaart.
Jul 27, 20:15
On this day: Netherlands on brink of elimination after Germany defeatOn this day in 2012, Germany beat Netherlands 2-1 to leave their opponents on the brink of early Euro 2012 elimination.
Jun 13, 09:32
Louis van Gaal names 23-man Netherlands squadNetherlands boss Louis van Gaal names his final 23-man squad for the World Cup.
May 31, 13:17
Netherlands' Rafael van der Vaart out of World Cup with calf injuryRafael van der Vaart is reportedly ruled out of the Netherlands' World Cup campaign with a calf injury.
May 28, 10:57
Result: HSV draw with Greuther Furth, escape relegation on away goalsHamburger SV secure their Bundesliga status with a nail-biting 1-1 draw against Greuther Furth which kept them up on away goals.
May 18, 17:55
Result: Hamburger SV's Bundesliga safety hangs in the balanceHamburger SV are held to a goalless draw with Greuther Furth in the Bundesliga relegation playoff first leg to leave their survival hopes hanging in the balance.
May 15, 22:22
Result: Bayern Munich thrash lowly Hamburger SVHamburger SV's hopes of avoiding relegation are dealt a major blow as they are beaten 4-1 at the hands of Bayern Munich in the Bundesliga.
May 3, 16:49
Half-Time Report: Bayern Munich leading struggling Hamburger SV at half timeBayern Munich hold a 1-0 half-time lead over struggling Hamburger SV in the Bundesliga, thanks to Mario Gotze's first-half tap-in.
May 3, 15:22
Team News: Toni Kroos gets nod for Bayern Munich against Hamburger SVBayern Munich hand a start to Toni Kroos in their clash with relegation strugglers Hamburger SV in week 33 of the German Bundesliga.
May 3, 13:47
Team News: Jacques Zoua leads line for Hamburger SVJacques Zoua starts up front for Hamburger SV for their away clash against Hannover.
Apr 12, 14:04
Result: Hamburger SV ease relegation worriesHamburger SV move out of the Bundesliga's relegation zone with a 2-1 win over Bayer Leverkusen.
Apr 4, 21:23
On this day: Tottenham Hotspur reach FA Cup semisOn this day in 2012, Tottenham Hotspur record a 3-1 victory over Bolton Wanderers to progress through to the FA Cup semi-finals.
Mar 27, 10:00
Result: Hamburger SV and Freiburg settle for a pointHamburger SV and Freiburg settle for a point each in their relegation six-pointer as they draw 1-1 in the Bundesliga.
Mar 26, 20:52
Result: Stuttgart edge to 1-0 win over Hamburger SVStuttgart edge out Hamburger SV with a 1-0 home victory at the Mercedes-Benz Arena in the Bundesliga, thanks to a goal from Alexandru Maxim.
Mar 22, 16:49
Manchester United striker Robin van Persie doubt for Netherlands due to illnessManchester United striker Robin van Persie is a doubt for the Netherlands' friendly against France due to illness.
Mar 5, 11:05
Team News: Rafael van der Vaart on Hamburger SV benchRafael van der Vaart only makes the bench for Hamburger SV's away trip to Werder Bremen in the Bundesliga.
Mar 1, 14:14
Rafael van der Vaart set for early returnHamburg captain Rafael van der Vaart could return from an ankle injury in time to face Werder Bremen this Saturday.
Feb 25, 14:40
Team News: No Rafael van der Vaart for Mirko Slomka's first Hamburger SV gameMirko Slomka is without captain Rafael van der Vaart for his first game in charge of Hamburger SV against Borussia Dortmund.
Feb 22, 13:49
Rafael van der Vaart out for up to three weeks?Hamburger SV captain Rafael van der Vaart is likely to miss up to three weeks of action.
Feb 17, 01:30
Result: Hertha Berlin cruise to Hamburg victoryHamburger SV remain in trouble in the Bundesliga relegation places after being comprehensively beaten by Hertha Berlin.
Feb 8, 19:25
Result: Mainz 05 beat 10-man Hamburger SV late onMainz 05 beat Hamburger SV in a five-goal thriller in the Bundesliga.
Dec 21, 16:20
Team News: Shinji Okazaki continues in attack for Mainz 05Shinji Okazaki continues up front for Mainz for their trip to Hamburger SV.
Dec 21, 14:13
Team News: Diego Contento starts for Bayern MunichDiego Contento is handed a Bayern Munich start, with David Alaba named on the bench.
Dec 14, 13:49
Preview: Bayern Munich vs. Hamburger SVBayern Munich look to maintain their winning run in the Bundesliga as they host Hamburger SV on Saturday.
Dec 12, 14:03
Agent: 'Hakan Calhanoglu wants to stay at Hamburger SV'Hakan Calhanoglu's agent says that there there is no immediate need to leave Hamburger SV, despite interest from Arsenal.
Dec 12, 12:37


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text: RT Book, Whole DB /z-wcorg/ DS http://worldcat.org ID 28106446 LA English T1 Operations of the Congress : testimony of H. Ross Perot : hearing before the Joint Committee on the Organization of Congress, One Hundred Third Congress, first session ... March 2, 1993. A1 United States., Congress., Joint Committee on the Organization of Congress., Perot, H. Ross,, PB U.S. G.P.O. : For sale by the U.S. G.P.O., Supt. of Docs. PP Washington YR 1993 SN 0160406188 9780160406188


text:
The Loft at Traders Point
- Address:
9101 Moore Rd.
Zionsville, IN 46077Neighborhood:
NW Indy / Zionsville
- Cuisine:
OrganicPrice: $30 and under
The Loft at Traders Point
- Dining Style: Casual Elegant
- Website: http://www.tpforganics.com/
- Phone: (317) 733-1700
- Hours of Operation:
Sunday Brunch: 9:00am - 2:30pm; Lunch: Monday - Saturday: 11:00am - 2:30pm; Dinner: Tuesday - Thursday, Sunday 5:00-9:00pm and Friday - Saturday 5:00-9:30pm
- Payment Options: AMEX,MasterCard,Visa
- Cuisine: Organic, American
- Executive Chef: Brandon Canfield
- Dress Code: Casual Dress
- Accepts Walk-Ins: Yes
- Additional Details: Banquet/Private Rooms, Beer, Cafe, Entertainment, Farm to Table, Non-Smoking Restaurant, Patio/Outdoor Dining, Private Room, Takeout, View, Weekend Brunch, Wheelchair Access, Wine
- Catering: We proudly cater private events in candlelit The Loft Restaurant, Red Party Barn and Tents on our beautiful farm.
- Private Party Facilities: Private party options include restaurant buy-out opportunity, semi-private events of 25 or less, or on-site catered events in our historic and heated barn for up to 275 people. Event/Wedding planner in-house and Chef assistance available for menu planning.
- Private Party Contact: Gail Alden 317-733-1700
- Entertainment: Featuring live music every Friday night!
- Special Events: Wine Dinners, Oktoberfest (October 12, 2013), Christmas on the Farm (December 14, 2013)
A word from The Loft at Traders Point
Indiana's only Organic Farm to Table Restaurant! Serving Lunch and Dinner including our Award Winning Brunch on Sundays.Continued
Every Friday Night during the Summer Farmers Market, we also serve an Organic set menu "DINNER ON THE DECK" complete with Live Music, outside on our beautiful deck and patio thru Labor Day weekend.
Our menus feature our award winning cheeses, yogurts and ice creams, along with our own 100% Grassfed Beef and pastured pork and chicken. We proudly serve other fresh food from local growers and atisans. Our culinary team proudly serves hand-picked herbs and vegetables from our own garden. Private and custom events accommodated.
Depending on the season we have special offerings including Wild Boar, Yak, Elk, and Ostrich!
Every Friday Night during the Summer Farmers Market, we also serve an Organic set menu "DINNER ON THE DECK" complete with Live Music, outside on our beautiful deck and patio thru Labor Day weekend.
Our menus feature our award winning cheeses, yogurts and ice creams, along with our own 100% Grassfed Beef and pastured pork and chicken. We proudly serve other fresh food from local growers and atisans. Our culinary team proudly serves hand-picked herbs and vegetables from our own garden. Private and custom events accommodated.
Depending on the season we have special offerings including Wild Boar, Yak, Elk, and Ostrich!
Foodspotting photosSee all photos
Awards voted by OpenTable diners
- Diners' Choice WinnerBest Overall
- Diners' Choice WinnerBest Ambiance
- Diners' Choice WinnerFit for Foodies
The Loft at Traders Point - Best Restaurants in NW Indy / Zionsville ›
The Loft at Traders Point reviews from OpenTable diners
170 reviews since July 31, 2014
- Food4.5Service4.5
- Ambiance4.6Noise LevelModerate
fit for foodies (117)special occasion (92)scenic view (89)great for outdoor dining (83)neighborhood gem (72)romantic (64)great for brunch (62)great for lunch (58)good for groups (40)kid-friendly (30)notable wine list (30)hot spot (4)Show More
- Great BrunchdacopperDined on 11/23/2014If you like organic food then this is the place. We have been here half a dozen times and it has always been good. The brunch items are a little out there but the do offer some traditional items. The biscuits and gravy are great as are the create your own omelets. Good coffee and superb service.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Beautiful setting with super fresh foodOpenTable Diner Since 2005Dined on 11/22/2014After enjoying the outdoor fire pit on our way in we were treated to a beautiful old barn with candles in every corner as the setting for dinner - a casual yet beautiful setting. The food was all fresh, seasonal, and organic. My most difficult decision was the salad because there were so many great choices. Lovely presentation, just the right amount of food, and all fresh and delicious. Would definitely recommend to anyone for a quiet, locally grown dinner in the country which is such a short drive from the city!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Best beet salad ever!BeetLoverDined on 11/22/2014My husband and I had dinner after the movies on a Saturday night. Out first time at the restaurant. We shared the cheese board for a starter - it was OK then I had the beet salad and I loved it! My husband had the soup of the day which he found very tasty. We shared the lamb entree since we can't eat that much after popcorn. The juniper berry/sorrel/turnip accompaniment was delicious! I had Malmsley (similar to tawny port) and my husband chocolate ice cream for dessert. Both were excellent. The somewhat rustic atmosphere was pleasant and the service of waitress, water person and other staff very attentive but not intrusive. The wine list had plenty of choices across price ranges. All in all a lovely evening.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Fantastic ExperienceOpenTable Diner Since 2011Dined on 11/21/2014Many times, when I've been to a restaurant for the first time, I wait to review. You never know if the stars aligned just for that visit. Well, I'm here to tell you that The Loft at TP gets it right every time. Super romantic if you get a seat on the porch (heated). It's not inexpensive, but as long as it doesn't disappoint, it's well worth it to me. Enjoy.Special Features:
- Great Dinner, Great ServicekatedDined on 11/21/2014The food was outstanding. I had the Walleye and my husband had the lamb, but were excellent. The cheese plate and house smoked salmon were delicious too. Trader Point toffee sundae is always great for dessert. Sarah, our service was very personable, and didn't miss a beat. We will be back!Special Features:
- What a wonderful suprise!amyroetVIPDined on 11/15/2014The Loft is terrific. I woud highly recommend this to anyone looking for a special yet casual place to dine. The food was terrific and the setting unique. This is definitely worth the drive.Special Features:
- This restaurant is a best kept secret!!!Foodie79Dined on 11/13/2014This restaurant has amazing food, a great wait staff and an overall amazing vibe to it. The food never disappoints.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- I could live here!AmwosuVIPDined on 11/12/2014Quality food, well prepared in a beautiful setting with unobtrusive service.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Special placeindyguest716Dined on 11/9/2014Had a special, memorable dinner while in town visiting our son. Service was attentive and food was delicious. We even had an appetizer and dessert...which we never do...just to experience the full menu. We certainly plan to return on our next visit to this great city and look forward to arriving early to tour the farm and market store.Special Features:
- Disappointing at a favoriteskg53VIPDined on 11/8/2014We had requested not to be seated near the Dairy Bar and the hostess took us directly to a table for 2 at the Dairy Bar when other options were available. Our lovely waitress had a huge party and was not nearly as attentive as usual. The food was very slow in coming out of the kitchen, likely due to the strain of the large party. This is a favorite restaurant of ours and we came away disappointed.Special Features:
- Food and AtmospherejsherbkcsVIPDined on 11/3/2014Great lunch on a sunny fall afternoon. Got the opportunity to sit on the heated deck which was very nice. Three Floyds beer selection was better than most and the unique local selections were superb. We had the cheese plate which had some new items. Several entrees had unique local veg even this time of year.Special Features:
- Lovely experienceOpentablefriendVIPDined on 11/2/2014Elegant and unusual setting. Beautiful, calming, fabulous food, locally grown. Very pleased with the whole experience. Very special!Special Features:
- Sunday at Trader Point Creamery...SassyindianaDined on 11/2/2014This is the third time we have been here for brunch. The fruit plate is outstanding and compliments egg dishes well. I had the vegetable strata and my husband an omelet. Both were served piping hot. Toast was an option with the omelet and the cinnamon sugar on the table was an added touch. We will return. The only draw back was we had to walk so far on a stoney parking lot. I almost fell at one point!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- excellent!OpenTable Diner Since 2014Dined on 11/2/2014Brunch was great! Food and service was phenominal. It was a little pricey, $50 for two adults. (No alcohol or desert)Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Fun LocationOpenTable Diner Since 2011Dined on 11/2/2014Great location for farm fresh food. Staff is attentive, food was fabulous. Would definitely return next time I am in the Indianapolis area.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- BarbieBarbieDined on 11/1/2014Love this restaurant. The food is good and the service superb. Dine early as it quiets down fairly early.Special Features:
- Special Attention Fantastic!GoGoMarieDined on 11/1/2014We celebrated my husband and his twin's 50th birthday at The Loft. I had ordered a special cake to be delivered and took candles and a note for our server with instructions. Everything went off without a hitch! The twins were surprised and we had a fabulous time. And, of course, the food was fantastic as usual. Thank you!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- very goodMinoDined on 10/31/2014It was nice healthy food! My mom and I enjoyed very much.Special Features:
- Honor her with dinner here.MaxxDined on 10/29/2014She worth it. Honor her with dinner here. Great service and I always just get chocolate milk for desert.Special Features:
- gbrown15VIPDined on 10/28/2014Farm-to-table simply does not adequately describe this place, as the table is already at the farm! Food at a restaurant does not come more freshly and skillfully prepared or more beautifully presented than it does at The Loft at Traders Point. Tucked away in the rolling hills near Zionsville, it is truly a hidden gem. My wife and I live 5 minutes away, and it has become our clear favorite restaurant in the city.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Awesome ExperienceOpenTable Diner Since 2008Dined on 10/26/2014We met friends for Sunday brunch and had the pleasure of eating outside. For a former farm girl, it was a joy to be in the country, view the scenery, appreciate the smells of the cheese and cows and just relax. The staff was great in not hurrying us and we truly enjoyed the experience. We did take advantage of a beautiful day and walked around the farm after brunch - lovely place. We are looking forward to bringing other friends soon!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Fun ambianceNanloves2dineDined on 10/26/2014Sat on the porch. We did have a reservation which I recommend for Sunday brunch as it was quite busy. The menu is unique and items are organic and the cheeses, yogurt, and ice creams are made there. I had the Tortilla hash which I found to be just ok. It is vegetarian but not that appealing. Two over cooked fried eggs on soggy tortilla's with a spoonful of avocado cream. The French toast looked great. Fruit plate was standard berries, pineapple and Melon which was hard and not edible. $13.00 The prices are on the High side. Noise level was quite loud as we were seated next to a group of 12. Service was very good. It's a fun place to go but still trying to find something on the menu worth the price. $100 with tip for 3 people, no alcohol.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- The LoftShelliDined on 10/25/2014Absolutely wonderful. The best steak I've had in years.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Wow!GabyDined on 10/25/2014Thankyou so much for lunch! Everything was wonderful! From the veggy soup to the fish tacos and the cranberry salad.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- sarahDined on 10/23/2014it was sooo nice to have lunch with a girlfriend and everything was perfect! i loved that they used all local fare and even things like persimmon trifle!!! the food was outstanding***Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- AwesomegoleighDined on 10/18/2014Come for the filet stay for the ice cream. Definitely make sure you leave room for dessert!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Very NiceOpenTable Diner Since 2014Dined on 10/18/2014A great local out of the way place. A diary farm converted into an upscale restaurant that serves locally sourced food.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- BeckyDined on 10/18/2014sitting out on the deck on a fall evening was lovely, thanks to the heaters. really enjoyed the view until sundown. a local hunter was shooting some practice rounds, which was slightly disconcerting, but a lovely ambiance. otherwise, it was quieter on the deck than inside, which gave us a chance to talk.Special Features:
- We love itjgl1Dined on 10/18/2014Delicious food, good ambiance in the middle of a beautiful landscape. We love those burgers. We love those beefs.Special Features:
- Wonderful, as usual!GourmandDined on 10/16/2014Just a wonderful experience. The food was very tasty and the variety of flavor s astounding.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- OpenTable Diner Since 2011Dined on 10/12/2014The food was very good! What makes this more of an average dining spot for me was the crowded atmosphere which lends to the noise level. Service was nice.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- LunchalwayssearchingforlunchDined on 10/7/2014Weather influenced my visit, and I have plans to return on a warm, sunny day. I anticipate that would have improved my impression. However, we cannot influence the weather, can we?Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- RobineatsRobineatsDined on 10/6/2014Our waitress was wonderful as we were first timers with multiple questions. Mac and Cheese was excellent. I'm a coleslaw junkie, it was wonderful. A bit pricey for lunch, but the experience was worth it. Yummy!! Will go back as it was hard to decide what to try. Wanted one of each.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- never disappointedOpenTable Diner Since 2008Dined on 10/4/2014This is our second time dining at the Loft. It was fabulous ad always! Too bad we live 2 hours away!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Impressive ExperienceIndyJaneDined on 9/28/2014Took my well-traveled friends from Missouri to The Loft on Sunday evening - they were sincerely impressed with the menu and the quality of the food. Cheese board was stellar, as was the quail, hamburger, soup and dessert. Service was outstanding; everyone was knowledgeable about everything. Made me proud to introduce them to one of our finest!Special Features:
- Beautiful & DeliciousOpenTable Diner Since 2012Dined on 9/28/2014This was our fist time at The Loft and we absolutely LOVED it. The food was delicious and the view of the sunset while we ate was beautiful. We did have some things which prevented us from giving this 5 stars. We ordered the egg tartine appetizer and while my egg was cooked perfectly, my boyfriend's was overcooked, which he was disappointed about. The tables and chairs are outdoor patio furniture which is not very comfortable. The chairs have wicker which was cutting into my legs while I was sitting in it. The table was flimsy and had a hole in the middle for an umbrella which was annoying and also a little tacky. I am sure they could get better tables! Other than those two small things, we love it and will be back for sure.Special Features:
- Mildly disappointedBrunchersDined on 9/28/2014My mom and I have dined at the Loft for brunch on several occasions and have enjoyed the food and service every time. However this particular visit was off as that my mother waffles were burned or very hard and we brought it to the waitress attention and she just blew our concern off by changing the subject to " would you like dessert?" Also when my mother was ordering the waitress was not helpful at all. She did not try and suggest and alternative. I felt like the waitress' attitude was aloof to say the least. We decided to come back and give another try because we do appreciate the freshness of the produces etc. aaww!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Farm to table, yumMarBDined on 9/26/2014A Northside gem, food delicious, yet good for us. Grass fed beef and cheeses made from milk from healthy cows. Organic greens and vegetables are the norm, not exception. Friday nights usually have a quiet musician, wonderful, but not so loud to ruin conversation at the table.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Great findMeghanyoungDined on 9/23/2014This was my 2nd time at The Loft- The first was for lunch and this time for dinner. Both times I have been extremely pleased with everything! Starla was an excellent server and very knowledgeable. Order the cheese tray! You won't be disappointed!!Special Features:
- Exceeded Expectations!riodingoDined on 9/20/2014Can't wait to return! Everything about this spot exceeded my expectations. A big Wow!!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.


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Rielle Hunter: Engaged to John Edwards?by Free Britney at . Comments
This story keeps on getting better and better. John Edwards is reportedly engaged to Rielle Hunter, his mistress and the mother of his love child, reports say.
Two weeks ago, Edwards finally admitted that he is the father of Hunter's two-year-old daughter. Since then, Edwards and wife Elizabeth legally separated.
According to the National Enquirer, who broke the Edwards love child scandal, he proposed to his mistress on the same day he came clean about paternity.
"John dropped the proposal bomb on Rielle shortly before he issued his statement that he was indeed Frances' father," a source told the celeb news tabloid.
"Rielle Hunter has been waiting for a proposal for two long years. She deserved to know he wanted to raise their child together, and wanted Rielle in his life."
If this is true, which we highly doubt but can't officially rule out, you know what's coming next: The John Edwards Sex Tape II: Honeymoon Suite Style!
Will Rielle Hunter become the new Mrs. John Edwards?
"John said that when his divorce is final, he'll buy her a diamond ring. In the meantime, he's getting them a house." A $3.5 million beach house, allegedly.
The Enquirer says that Edwards expects his divorce from his cancer-stricken wife to be completed within a year, paving the way for a marriage to Hunter.
A spokeswoman for John Edwards denied this report, much like his people did numerous times about the affair ... and the love child ... and the coverup.
"It's absolutely not true," his spokesman said, adding that Edwards and Hunter "only communicate through a third party," to work out Edwards visitation.
"Everybody is trying to move on with their lives."
It's probably not true. But given that Edwards is a deceitful human who lies about everything, he doesn't exactly have a lot of credibility left, does he?
All we know is that if we were Andrew Young, we'd start ordering only bottled water in restaurants, and make sure the valet turns his car on for him.
Why is John Edwards conduct this explosive! Anyone who reads American history or presidential history knows cad behavior has been happening for many many years. As for Andrew Young, he is no diffrent than other political aids,many of whom take blame for the politicians they work for. Warren Harding had a child with one of many mistresses before he was elected president in 1920.I don't blame Andrew Young for setting the record straight. As for Elizabeth Edwards,it's time for her to place blame for her upcoming divorce on Johns and her own shoulders. As for Riell,or whatever her name is, she's another disgusting piece of stink and she and John Edwards deserve each dother.
Two used scumbags in a pod. Perfect. Pox on both these bastards.
I agree with the comment that John Edwards regrets the day he met Rielle Hunter... And, Andrew and Cheri Young... If Edwards had loved Rielle he would never have suggested an abortion. Rielle's daughter is less a love child and more a secure monthly paycheck for Rielle. Is it truth or rumor that Rielle told Edwards she couldn't have children while using fertility treatments to conceive? Sad. I wish the very best in health, healing, and happiness for Elizabeth Edwards and all of the children involved. I hope Elizabeth proceeds with her law suit against Andrew Young and any money he might receive from his book ends up in trust for Elizabeth's children.
I believe John is a philander. He finally got caught at it. There's probably more out there. He is propbably a sex addict, too.
All i know "is, "what goes around comes around". John Edwards was the biggest mouth on calling Former President Clinton out, now karma has shown him the error of his ways. And if that idiot Reille accepts a ring from that idiot, she's a bigger fool as his wife for believing this was the first time he's ever cheated.
There's not one "good guy" in this whole ugly saga..not even Elizabeth Edwards. I feel sorry for her, but she's a nasty woman.
I believe that all the people who thought they knew John Edwards and his $400.00 haircuts are shaking their heads in utter disbelief.Back in the mid-sixties there was a nightime soap with the line,"this is the continuing story of Peyton Place" starring
Ryan O'neal,Mia Farrow,Dorothy Malone,Barbara Parkins,etc. Including J.E. and the cast of characters that he has introduced to us,this soap opera has a theme with no end in sight.Stay tuned!
This chick only wants money and she knows getting Edwards to marry her means more money for her. Both the recent book and Hunter's own sister admit whenever she didn't get exactly what she wanted, she would threaten to go public. She went from sleeping in her car to living in outrageously expensive homes within a couple of years. She won't care what Edwards does as long as she still has access to the money. Why he would do it knowing all of this about her just shows how incredibly stupid he is but then he'll get what he deserves. I hope Elizabeth outlives all these losers. She should go to their funerals and dance on their graves.
How can this other woman trust him or have any respect for him. If he did it once, he will do it again. He will leave her too when the going gets rough. It is sad that he cannot keep it in his pants while his wife has cancer. He is just a self serving SOB. Perhaps after his wife gets out from under all this stress her health will improve. If she dies and he has the gall to show up at her funeral, he should be shot on site.
If it's true, it's the least romantic proposal in history. First it's over the phone and then he proposes after lying for years. What woman wouldn't be thrilled with that? Every woman except this tramp! Wonder if he'd reconsider after learning she was cheating on him with Jeff Goldblum?


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entrepreneurs »
Co-working space now up and running
Share (pictured above: Flywheel is in the new 525@Vine Building in the WFU Innovation Quarter.) Flywheel is now open 24 hours a day and seven days a week for business. The innovative 11,585 -square-foot co-workingRead More »
Editorial: Piece of the Action
Share Recent transplants may be under the impression that downtown Winston-Salem has always been popping. With all of its razzle-dazzle, even natives are finding the picture of downtown past fading away from their memories.Read More »
Local woman among 'Emancipation' gala honorees
Share Special to The Chronicle Winston-Salem native Sheila Robinson, founder, publisher and CEO of Greensboro-based Diversity Woman Magazine, was among honorees during a recent high-profile Washington, D.C. gala, "Emancipation of Capital." The event wasRead More »
UL and partners to aid small businesses
Share The Winston-Salem Urban League is partnering with the City of Winston-Salem and Wake Forest University to offer small businesses the knowledge and expertise they need to thrive. The partners will offer the SmallRead More »


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This is a game guide for the Playstation version of Resident Evil and, as you can see from the cover, is "totally unauthorized". This small paperback guide, published by Brady Games, is of a particularly lower quality from the glossy guides we see nowadays. The paper quality is poor meaning the black and white screen shots are not the best and the page layout leaves a lot to be desired.
However the guide itself is very well written which is probably why Brady Games were subsequently given the official license to produce future guides for the series. It is an interesting addition to my Resident Evil collection, and does not appear too often on ebay, however Amazon does have a few copies selling for around £10. This copy was picked up at a local bootsale for just ten pence.


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Friday, 15 October 2010 00:00
This season the Girls Varsity Soccer Team at Division Avenue High School has a very familiar look. The team is virtually the same squad that went to the Nassau County Finals last season. There is only one change to last year's starting lineup and that is in goal. With the graduation of all-league keeper Nicolette Parmese the job of tending the net fell to senior keeper Brianna Spitaliere. Spitaliere has led the Lady Dragons to an undefeated first half of the season in their conference, and has recorded two shutouts in six games.
Powering the offense are Julie Ballantyne and Brittany Weissman. Ballantyne is the conference leader in goals scored to this point in the season, while Weissman has also added valuable minutes.
In the midfield for the Blue Dragons are Janelle Marxhausen, Zenia Materon, and Kayla Sheldrick. Midfield can be a grueling position to play but all three girls play it very well and with great skill.
Leading a very stingy defense are Taylor Malings, Kelsey Marxhausen, Christina Rea, and Emily Smucker. The defense is averaging giving up less than one goal a game.
The efforts of the entire team have led to a 6-0 first half record thus far and have almost clinched a playoff spot for the girls.


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- Cooking Time: 15
- Servings: 4
- Preparation Time: 15
- 4 each (4 oz) boneless, skinless chicken breasts
- 1 1/2 cups flour, plus 1 tablespoon
- 1 Tbsp salt
- 2 tsp black pepper
- 2 tsp Italian seasoning
- 1 lb fettuccine pasta, cooked according to package directions
- 5 Tbsp olive oil
- 1 Tbsp garlic, chopped
- 1 red pepper, julienne cut
- 1/2 cup white wine
- 1/2 lb whole leaf spinach, stemmed
- 2 cups heavy cream
- 1 cups Parmesan cheese, grated
- Pre-heat oven to 350 F.
- MIX 1½ cups flour, salt, pepper and Italian seasoning in a shallow dish. Dredge chicken in the mixture, shaking off any excess.
- HEAT 3 Tbsp oil in a large skillet. Cook chicken breasts 2 at a time over medium-high heat until golden brown and crisp (2-3 min). Add more oil for each batch as necessary.
- PLACE cooked chicken breasts on a baking sheet and transfer to preheated oven. Cook for 10-15 minutes or until internal temperature reaches 165°F.
- HEAT 2 Tbsp oil in a sauce pan. Add garlic and red pepper and cook for approximately 1 minute. Stir in 1 Tbsp flour, wine, spinach and cream and bring to a boil. Sauce is done when spinach becomes wilted. Complete by stirring in parmesan cheese.
- COAT cooked, drained pasta with sauce, then top with chicken and remaining sauce. Garnish with extra Parmesan cheese.
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Anthropologist Frank Bergevin,who has sold artifacts to museums around the world, will be exhibiting and selling Ancient Viking artifacts including jewelry and weapons at CNY Artists Gallery, Shoppingtown from June 1 through June 30th. There will also be some Celtic, Roman, Medieval and pre-Columbian artifacts that range from 500-2,000 years old. Purchases made can not be removed until the conclusion of the show on June 30. Info (315) 391-5115
- This event has passed.


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Helpful Q&A about tigers
- How many different kinds of tigers are there? There were 9 sub-species of Tigers, 3 of which are extinct.
- Where do Tigers live? Found only in Asia within a variety of habitats:
- How do tigers hunt? They stalk their prey and by using their distinctive coat as camouflage and pounce at their targets when they are close enough.
- How many tigers are there in the wild today? In 1900 there were 100,000, but now less than 5000 tigers still roam the wild, in which 30 of them are South China Tigers.
- How big are tigers? The tiger is the largest of all cats and the Siberian is the largest of all tigers with record lengths of over 13ft (3.5m) and a maximum recorded weight of 854lbs (387kg).(The Largest Captive Siberian Tiger was 1025lbs). The Sumatran is the smallest tiger with a minimum length of 7ft (2.3m) and minimum weight of 165lbs (75kg)
- How long do tigers live?
- Do tigers have enemies, do other animals eat tigers? Only humans because Tigers lost their land to humans encroaching with farmland or killed for their fur. Tigers are recognized as apex predators and have no natural predators. They do not have natural predators, but they do have natural enemies, this include Bears, Rhinoceros, Elelphants, Gaurs, Buffalos, Leopards, Jackals, Crocodiles and other tigers etc.
- Why are tigers endangered? Poaching, Habitat Loss, Population fragmentation
- How many miles per hour can a tiger run? Considered neither fast nor slow, Tigers can sprint up to 35mph.
- How many cubs do tigers usually have? Litter size is 2-4 cubs although only 1 in 5 grow to maturity. Gestation is approximately 108 days
- Are tigers stronger than lions? And if they fight, who will win? Recent research indicates that the tiger is indeed stronger than the lion in terms of physical strength. Lions hunts in prides, so it would be in a group and the tigers as a solitary creature so it would be on its own. A Tiger is generally physically larger than a Lion. Most Experts would favour a Siberian and Bengal Tiger over an African Lion.
- Do Tigers purr? No, they do not purr but chuff.
- For the average tiger how much land area would a single tiger hunt in? The amount of land that a tiger uses to hunt in is based on how many animals there are to eat! In the lowland rain forests of Indonesia, researchers have estimated that Sumatran tigers hunt in an area of approximately 180 sq. km. Researchers tracking Siberian tigers in Russia, where there are fewer animals to eat, have estimated that the hunting range of a tiger in that area can be as much as 420 sq. km.
- Do tigers climb trees or just stay on the ground? Tigers enjoy climbing trees when they are young but as an adult their sheer size makes climbing difficult. Tigers love water and can swim several miles at a time. They are considered superb swimmers in the animal kingdom, and they also often hunt in water.
A century ago, the Bali, Javan and Caspian Tigers still exist, but now they are extinct.
Now only Siberian, Bengal, Sumatran, Indo-Chinese, Malayan(newly-discovered) and South China Tiger (Chinese) still exist on our planet
As long as they have access to cover, water and sufficient large ungulate prey species
- Tropical evergreen and deciduous forests of southern Asia
- Coniferous, scrub oak, and birch woodlands of Siberia
- Mangrove swamps of the Sunderbans
- Dry thorn forests of north-western India
- Tall grass jungles at the foot of Himalayas
10 to 15 years in the wild, and 15 to 20 years in captivity.


text: TV/radio: 6 p.m.; CSN, WGN-AM 720. Storylines: The Blackhawks will conclude a brief two-game trip with the first of back-to-back contests. The Leafs will be playing the second of back-to-backs after facing the Blue Jackets in Columbus on Saturday night. Trending: The Hawks will look to improve on their 2-2-0 road record after stopping the Senators 5-4 in a shootout Thursday night in Kanata, Ontario. Jonathan Toews leads the Hawks with four goals and is sitting on 199 for his career. The Leafs have struggled at home this season with a 2-4-0 mark