text:
HOT TOPICS: Alcoholism Addiction AA Cocaine Heroin
LSD Used In Drug Therapy For First Time In Four Decades
Swiss researchers conducted therapy sessions with terminally ill cancer patients and found that the drug had decreased their anxiety about death.
Acid was used as a drug therapy for the first time since an informal ban on LSD research was introduced 40 years ago. Swiss scientists broke the ban by announcing the results of a study in which cancer patients, most of whom are terminally ill, were given the drug to help curb their anxiety about death. The findings have since been published in the Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease.
The goal of the study was to determine the safety and efficacy of LSD when used in conjunction with talk therapy. The patients were medically supervised during the acid trips that lasted for about 10 hours each. They each underwent roughly 30 similar trips over the course of two months. The findings showed that patients who received a full dose of LSD, or 200 micrograms, experienced a 20 percent improvement in their anxiety levels a year after the sessions ended. Surprisingly, those who received a lower dose actually reported having their anxiety increase. That group was allowed to try the full dosage once their trial had ended.
One of the patients told the New York Times that tripping on LSD was a "mystical experience," where "the major part was pure distress at all the memories I had successfully forgotten for decades." The moments of distress were considered to have a therapeutic benefit because it allowed patients to directly address the emotions evoked. Although no conclusive statements could be made about the effectiveness of LSD treatment because the number of participants was too small, the drug didn't cause serious side effects in any of the participants.
It's also likely that LSD-based treatments could be revisited in the future. Rick Doblin, executive director of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, said that "we want to break these substances out of the mold of the counterculture and bring them back to the lab as part of a psychedelic renaissance."


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Unit steps back from FCP to meet demand for Avid
Final Cut Pro-only facility Unit is moving away from Apple software with the installation of 12 Avid Media Composer workstations.
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
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Help! Can anyone identify this copper saucepan?
I've found this pan on ebay it looks like a great deal. I was wondering who makes it and whether or not it is lined with tin or stainless. Any info would be appreciated as I'd rather not lose it. Halp!
Welp I bought the pot. It was too good a deal to pass up. Guess we'll find out what it is soon enough lol. Still interested in opinions though. Can always resell...
Hi, Wapptor:
You didn't give much info (But neither did the eBay seller in his listing).
The high loop handle is a clue, as it suggests Tornus or Revereware, but I would expect there to be a maker's mark. You might also look for a very small "made in Korea" mark.
Let us know when it arrives.
re: kaleokahu
The seller didn't seem to know much. He claimed the pot was a gift and that he never used it because it was "too pretty." He thought the interior was aluminum but then sent me another message saying it "looked like his all clad pot and was probably stainless." I'm kind of assuming he doesn't really know what it is. The pot was only $40 and if it is a quality piece and unused then it was a steal. Can't wait to get it :D
I have spent the past two days obsessively trying to find any info on this pan. I'm so afraid now that it's going to be aluminum with copper lining or some terrible nickel lined pan that I can't cook in or SOMETHING bad. What are the odds this is a real/usable pan. The pictures don't give a lot of information do they? *stressing*
re: Wapptor
Hi, Wapptor:
Relax. There's a high probability that this pan is stainless lined copper (bimetal).
Let's be hopeful--sometimes poorly-described or -pictured pans from unknowledgeable eBay sellers can be very good deals.
The worst that can happen is that you resell it on eBay, etc., under a *good* description and photo, and maybe break even. Or simply return it and lose 1/2 the postage.
I don't know who makes it, but it appears not to be a Revere. At least from what I've seen, the handles on Revere's copper pots are shaped differently, as are the rivets. In any case, I'm betting that this is copper over stainless. The rivets appear to be stainless, and you can see the concentric circular brush marks. I know that copper can be layered with aluminum, but I'm not aware of any aluminum-lined copper bi-metal pans.
re: jljohn
That would be wonderful. I'm hoping for the conductivity of copper but the durability of stainless. Here's hoping! $40!!!!
re: jljohn
Humm, I did not see your post when I posted, I see what you mean, Revere does not have rivets through the lid and the handle is straighter. Hope it is a decent pot. The handle will get quite hot.
re: ksbikecommuter
It looks similar (which makes one worry that it's a knockoff) but the handle (on the lid) shape is really unique. I've spent the past two days trying to find something that looks identical and have had no luck. The pan is supposed to get here on friday so I'm hoping once I get my hands on it I can see if there's any small markings or any identifying factors. Will let you guys know.
re: ksbikecommuter
Why do they make handles like that if they get really hot? Seems an odd tradition to uphold if you ask me. Just how hot do they get and what's the best way to deal with it?
re: Wapptor
Basically, brass conducts heat a lot quicker than cast iron, so cast iron stays cooler longer, but if you are going to have a pot on the stove for more than 5 or 10 minutes, either would be so hot that you would need a hot pad. In this functional sense, cast iron is only really beneficial on a fry or saute pan where the time on the burner is only a couple of minutes.
Everything else is aesthetics or association with quality. Brass is easier to maintain than cast iron, but many associate cast iron with thicker copper. In a way, stainless would be the most functional, but because it has no foothold in tradition, and is recently only used on very thin copper, I don't see it taking hold any time soon.
The best way to deal with it is to keep cloths or hot pad next to your stove. Any sort of tea towel would work, but (don't laugh) in my experience the absolute best hot pat / towel for next to the stove is this: http://www.amazon.com/OsoCozy-Indian-... They run $18-24 per dozen, they are THICK, and I can keep a stack of them in the cupboard next to the stove and toss them in the hamper when soiled and never run out!
re: Wapptor
Hi, Wapptor:
Why? Several reasons besides tradition and aesthetics. Brass is really easy to cast, naturally very malleable and ductile, and finishes beautifully. Cast iron is naturally brittle, and to render it malleable, it must be first cast correctly, and then annealed, sometimes differentially. It doesn't polish up particularly well, either. For some reason, brass handles are usually thinner and therefore lighter, too.
How hot? Hot enough to burn you. With all respect to Jeremy, I think it's not just a matter of a few minutes' time and then iron handles are just as hot. My brass-handled round skillet is untouchable (bare-handed) in just a few minutes, whereas my iron-handled sautes and fish pan can go a good long time and still be bare-handed. I have not verified this with my IR gun, but I don't think the iron handles ever get quite as hot on the top, either. IME, even after reaching equilibrium, I can move my iron-handled saucepans on the top, but the brass handles will make my bare hand absolutely recoil. Also, if you cook on a gas or solid top, both iron and brass will generally get hotter faster than if you're using resistive or radiant electric.
How to deal? A side towel. I leave a couple black ones hanging on my stove's front rail. I also have a couple slide-on silicone handle sleeves for my brass-handled skillets that work OK.
Really, it doesn't matter what the metal of the handle is as long as you use something *all the time*. I burn myself occasionally when I get busy/lazy and I put a brass handle into the mix. My problem is more realizing which handle is brass before I touch it.
re: kaleokahu
I'm going to burn my hand and I'm going to feel really awful when my girlfriend burns HER hand. -.-
re: Wapptor
Then your $40 pan becomes a $41.36 pan when you slip on a silicone sleeve. http://www.hotelrestaurantsupply.com/...
No worries.
Hi It lookes like some Revereware that I have, known as the Paul Revere Ware line. Here is a bit of history taken from this sight http://reverewarehistory.wordpress.com/
"Recognizing that a high-end consumer market existed for the solid copper cookware commonly in use by professional chefs, Revere introduced the Paul Revere Ware line in 1967. Produced only at the Oneonta, AL plant, the copper/stainless steel material it used was made in house using a high temperature, pressure-bonding process, not the traditional Revere electro-plating process. Designed as much (or more) for visual appeal as for function, the solid brass handles were attached with rivets welded to the bodies (producing a riveted handle with no exposed rivet heads on the cooking surface. The line included numerous specialty pieces: omelet, crepes suzette, fondue, and Au Gratin pans; casseroles, even a flambe set with alcohol burner and tray. Initial production carried "Limited Edition Collection" stamped on the undersides of the handles while a stylized Paul Revere "signature" was later added to the underside of each piece. This combination was designated the "Paul Revere Signature Collection" when the handle imprint was removed. A special issue commemorating the American Bicentennial added "1776-1976″ to the hallmark. The "signature" was also used on teakettles, serving trays, and mixing bowls which were later additions to the line (these were simply units produced for the 1400 line with the signature added). By 1978, the line had grown to include 33 different pieces, making it the largest line produced by Revere since the Revere Ware 1400 line of the mid 1950′s."


text:
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After matriculating with an A.S. dregree in physical therapist assistant(PTA), program graduates must successfully pass the National Physical Therapy Examination
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From Toledo - a famous salad here that I can't believe hasn't alreayd been posted! http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Betty%27s_Salad
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Serving Size: 1 (430 g)
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For Sale: 1971 Chevrolet C10 Pickup
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- 50% off entry with National Art Pass.
- View venue & entry details
Set in the home and working estate of Jane Austen's brother, Chawton House Library is a registered charity with a unique collection of books focusing on women's writing in English from 1600 to 1830.
Permanent collections
The Chawton House Library main collection focuses on works written by women in English during the period 1600 to 1830, by writers including Mary Shelley and Maria Edgeworth. The Library holds early editions of works from the period, many of which are rare and in some cases even unique.
The library also houses the Knight Collection, the private library of the Knight family, who owned Chawton House for over 400 years.
Visitor information
Guided tours take place every Tuesday and Thursday, March to December, and on Tuesdays only in January and February. The tours start at 2.30pm and include a thorough guided tour of the house and library. Visitors can also explore the gardens on a self-guided tour from Monday to Friday between 10am and 4pm.
Venue details
Entry details
50% off with National Art Pass (standard entry is £6)
Jan – Feb
Tue, guided tour at 2.30pm
Mar – Dec
Tue & Thu, guided tour at 2.30pm
Self-guided garden tours, Mon – Fri, 10am – 4pm
Advance booking advisable


text:
You want to learn about Ubuntu?
Ubuntu is the free Linux-based operating system designed with frequent updating in mind. Released in October 2004, it has evolved into one of the best-known branches of the Debian tree and offers a strong focus on usability and easy installation, whether it be on a laptop, desktop or server machine. With a development plan …
It's Still Linux
It's still Linux no matter what they call it up front.
i.e. badly documented.
I tried the two CDs, the fancy graphical one and the vanilla basic install one as the first CD tried to power off my PC when starting the install!
I was left trying to use a 800x600 desktop out of a 22" widescreen 1680x1050 screen.
Their online documents were out of date and virtually useless.
So I asked on their forums.
Getting told to apply complex patches and edit screen configurations files (that didn't work) isn't my idea of an advertised simple to use OS.
Seemingly Ubuntu doesn't support cheapo modern ATI Radeon 7000 cards and wide-screen monitors.
Unbuntu is not yet suitable for domestic users.
fire sale
So these books you're flogging at 40% off go all the way up the Feisty Fawn, the "latest release" - is it a coincidence that the next release comes out this month, and these books will go out of date?
Well spotted
Yes it is still Linux!
Ubuntu does support wide screen without any problems. I recently installed Ubuntu on my 22inch widescreen over and old Nvidia card and it all just works. Did you install the drivers for your ATI card?
For anyone interested in trying it out visit ubuntuguide.org where there is and easy to use wiki. I simply followed the insturctions for installing Automatix and adding all the 3rd party software was then as easy as ticking the boxes next things I wanted and clicking apply.
Ubuntu is indeed fine for everyday use on the desktop assuming your hardware is supported. If the LiveCD will boot and run then it should work fine. Just because you were not able to use it, it doesn't mean other people won't get on better with it!
Yup, it's still linux
and for some reason, ATI still isn't doing a good job of supporting it.
I had the same problem with a 1440x900 display; after a bit of Googling I found a couple of different solutions, most of which involved editing Xorg.conf, a text file. It still didn't work, but at least I felt a bit better for having tried. An even more complete novice than myself would have been baffled, and if he had edited Xorg.conf incorrectly he would have had to reinstall Ubuntu. Perhaps the same is true with Windows XP's registry, but then again Windows XP detects widescreen monitors by default. Widescreen support seems to be a blind spot with Ubuntu. I imagine that Linux fans feel a bit uncomfortable using a graphical interface, and this is their revenge on the normal people who bullied them at school.
This was after installing a Speedtouch ADSL modem. I could only manage this because I had a second computer already connected to the internet in order to download the instructions.
But the again, I am ignoring all the hardware that Ubuntu detected and ran without problem, so perhaps I'm being unfair.
Don't pick out Ubuntu
All Linux is the same!! Certainly not ready to compete with Window for most users although Ubuntu is much better than some of the other distros
Re: It's Still Linux
If you had bothered to read any of the Linux forums regarding graphics you would have very quickly found out that support under Linux for ATI graphics hardware was virtually non-existant because ATI would not release Linux drivers. That's not the fault of anyone in the Linux/open source community. It seems that ATI may have recently done an about face on this seeing that their disregard for Linux was more their loss rather than that of the Linux community. We shall see.
But counter to your poorly researched little diatribe: show me the Windows installation media that will have all but the most bleeding edge hardware (desktop or laptop) working from one fresh install. Can't be done without hacking your media for specific hardware with WinPE or BartPE. Ubuntu does that from one CD and also includes a full set of office, net, multimedia and other apps as well.
re: IT'S STILL LINUX
You are obviously a windows user - used to all the complex patches poor documentation.
are you a geek or not?
Soon, Meh
It's still Gnu/Linux actually Stuart no matter what _you_ call it.
As for your fendangled ATI Radeon card, having person experience trying to work with graphics cards with respect to finding monitor information I can tell you 3 interesting things: 1) ATI doesn't document very well how to use DDC/I2C on all it's cards 2) Some of the cards just don't work, 3) Even when you get data, most monitors lie about what their specs are for some reason.
I'm looking forward to Hardy and I'll be waiting with bated breath for the ATI open source drivers because they _will_ make a lot of these problems go away. You know all the problem Ubuntu always has is when it's forced to use closed systems, drivers, plugins etc; The reality is that ubuntu is ready, the market on the other hand is still sleeping in 1995.
Re: It's Still Linux
Poorly documented? I hope you're not comparing it to Windows in this regard.. the security through obscurity platform.
It is widely known and accepted that ATI's support for Linux is lacking.. It seems that the most common complaint about Linux is the hardware support and that is because many hardware manufacturers believe that as long as their hardware works with Microsoft's latest OS then it is ready to put on the shelves. It is not that Ubuntu is not yet suitable for 'domestic' users but that you have to buy your hardware from companies that don't believe that Microsoft are the only people in the world who make operating systems for home computers. Why should the open source community have to reverse engineer every piece of hardware on the shelves when Microsoft get the support handed to them on a silver platter? Take a look at Microsoft's main (and probably only) rivals in the home computing market.. Apple. They sell their operating system with hardware to match for a reason.
The problem is not that Ubuntu or any other Linux distribution is not ready it is that the rest of the community will not accept it as being ready and will not support it. Where would Microsoft be if the hardware manufacturers decided to stop writing drivers for windows?
RE: It's Still Linux
#include <stddisclaimer.h>
``Unbuntu is not yet suitable for domestic users.''
It isn't. It'll never be. Heck, it's not suitable for 'us techies' either. Try a real UNIX, like the Berkely Software Distribution -> http://netbsd.org, http://openbsd.org, http://freebsd.org (and a few minor variants I can't be bothered to list here) :)
RE: It's Still Linux
Strange -- because I had pretty much that same problem with Windows XP a while back, but Kubuntu was fine...
Oh, and I think you'll find it's ATI who don't support Linux. Lazy or overly-secretive manufacturers are the cause of almost all Linux hardware problems and many software ones too.
Don't get me wrong, I don't suggest that everyone would immediately wipe Windows and install Linux, but to suggest that because you found it hard to install on your hardware does not mean that everyone else will find it hard to install on their hardware.
Next Release
I'm a casual ubuntu user - i.e. my main latop is XP but run the 'buntu on other stuff, including laptops that I've solved on ebay after getting it installed all working..wifi.screen ad all..
Stuarts is right- This is the most ballaching stupid thing they still need to fix in it..as even though I am pretty happy with the command line, sudo and vi, I still find it stupid having to manually config X just to fix the frigging resolution..
It's on the list of things to be fixed in the next realease - whatver thats called...if they do it properly then I do think it would be fit for your grannie..
a step in the right direction
Ubuntu is the first linux distro that i have installed on my laptop that has just worked i even managed to get the wi-fi card working without much fuss inc WPA. I have very little Linux experience but i've got to grips with Ubuntu pretty quickly It's not as easy as windows but it is getting there.
In contrast...
Ubuntu is the first distribution of Linux that I 've tried since University and it's been straightforward and simple to set up. The graphical installation took me through setting it up on an Intel Core 2 Duo with SATA and an NVidia 7900, all straight from the disk and smooth as silk. I could even try out the operating system from the CD while the installation was taking place.
I'm not saying it's perfect - I had to tweak some settings to use my widescreen monitor and had to do a fair bit of work to get some applications working correctly on WINE, but on the whole the experience has been a good one. Compared to other OS installations I've done, this one's been much easier.
RE: It's Still Linux
"Unbuntu is not yet suitable for domestic users."
Quite true. How ever, I am a bit of a nerdy fellow yet have never used Linux in my life. Liked gaming far too much to bother. When ET:QW was announced to have a Linux version, I thought I might as well install Ubuntu to do a comparison of it against Vista and XP. (Which I did, XP is the clear winner by 16% extra FPS and 20% better stability) So I boot up on that fancy bootable CD and go through all the live CD stuff. Decide to install, so I locate the install thingo and go through the parition screen and all that.
This, I imagine, is where your bog standard "I'VE LOST THE WEBSITE BAR IN INTERNET EXPLORER!" person would likely get stuck. I had a little head scratch when going through it, but got there in the end. The main problem at the end of it is when It came time to install the latest Nvidia drivers. I spent an age trawling across the web trying to find instructions on how to install the Nvidia drivers (they weren't .run format) and none of the "solutions" on the intrawebs worked...So I ditched it and went back to XP. I'll get round to it some time though.
You have to admit though, Ubuntu is the closest Linux has really ever been to something suitable for domestic users.
RE: It's Still Linux
It all depends on what the domestic user wants to do.
Personally, I haven't touched X11 in years, prefering windows for GUI (funnily enough, it just works, someone shoot me for saying this). I do however run linux for developement without the X. It can also make for a good media/streaming server, or HTPC.
BTW, I use centos for all my linux boxes. Debian used to be my choice but updates are just too slow, and unstable branches are named for good reason.
Stuart Halliday...
Its darwinian - the linux community doesn't need idiots like you!
jog on
Not a credible criticism, Stuart
I have installed Ubuntu 6 and 7 on numerous systems, including several with ATI Radeon graphics (ranging from the Mobility 9000 in a laptop to the 9800XT in a desktop). I've never had any issues that could not be resolved quickly using (in order of precedence) the online documentation, the official forums, or Googling for the specific issue I had.
If you can't get a resolution in the forums, the odds are excellent that you have failed to correctly describe the problem. I get this all the time (I have to support Windows users who, when I ask them to read the error message to me, reply, "Oh, I clicked it off. It said there was an error or something.").
I've never seen *any* OS attempt to shutdown a PC during installation when the PC didn't have an underlying hardware problem.
Less than 30 seconds work on Google finds that the ATI Radeon 7000 can be made to work thusly:
"The driver chosen by the installation was radeon. I changed this to "ati" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf and now it works."
Of course, the real question is, "Why didn't you try the LIVE CD first to make sure your system can support a modern OS, before you installed it on the hard drive?"
Agreed with above, my experience of ubuntu is that I couldn't get the graphics above 800x600, 56Hz using several common-or-garden graphics cards circa 1998. And it ran like a dog on the P3 850 that I was playing around with, to the point where I had to crack out an Athlon 1GHz to get it useable.
Xubuntu on a Thinkpad 600 wasn't much more of a success.
I'm no Mac/Windoze fanboi, but I've had much more positive experiences with installing XP on said ancient kit (thanks, nLite) than the flavours of Linux that I've dabbled with. I'm sure with a bit more time to trawl the forums (fora?) I'd get it sussed, but life's too short.
It's not Ubuntu, it's an ATI problem
ATI considers the driver details for their cards proprietary, so unless you're Microsoft, they don't tell you enough to write a driver for them. It makes it kind of difficult for you or me to write any driver code for an ATI card without that information.
When choosing to try Linux, you should remember that it was written, in large part, *without* the assistance of the hardware manufacturers, who focus their support efforts on Windows (only). Since Linux is free, there's no wads of cash to throw at the hardware vendors to get their attention. Look at Linux from that perspective, and it's quite an accomplishment.
However, the reward for using Linux, is that you regain control of your computer. No more stealth updates, no more anti-virus programs, no more mandatory DRM. If you're happy with Windows, by all means continue to use it. For me, the effort to install and configure Linux is more than compensated for by the stability and freedom it provides.
Re: It's Still Linux
> Seemingly Ubuntu doesn't support cheapo modern ATI Radeon 7000 cards and wide-screen monitors.
That's mostly down to ATi/AMD not bothering to provide an even half-way decent driver for aeons, whereas cheapo modern Nvidia cards are pretty good, as are exceedingly cheap Intel ones (which are properly open-sourced, and as such don't make Richard Stallman cry in his big old beard).
You clearly didn't tell the operative at PC World that you were thinking of using Linux on your PC when you bought it. Or maybe you did. Either way, your warranty is void.
FWIW I tossed the 7.04 DVD into my PC, let it do its business, and it all just worked. Better than Vista managed on an identical machine in the office. I was pleasantly surprised that the Ubuntu machine picked up the card and TFT correctly whereas Vista had me rummaging around in a monochrome desktop - it was like a "Hi-Res" Amiga Workbench from 1989. (And yes, that was the highlight of my Vista usage.)
Re it's still linux
"Unbuntu is not yet suitable for domestic users."
My main computer is a Mac Mini but my laptop is a second hand Thinkpad X.30 running Ubuntu. It does everything I want, Wifi etc at about a tenth of the cost of a Macbook pro.or a quarter of the price of the white Macbook. No Windoze needed at all. I think it's bloody marvelous, & i'm not a major geek at all either. honest!
Re: It's still Linux
Sounds like you had a bad experience which is unfortunate, plenty of other people have the install go silky smooth, like myself. It took 9 minutes to install on my PC and when it rebooted I was greeted with 100% working mouse, keyboard, sound, network, USB etc the ubiquitous Open Office suite fully installed ready, and thats happened on the 4 other desktops I popped it on and two laptops.
As for it not being ready for 'domestic' users, in actual fact I think that is who it is readiest for, people who just want to browse, email, play some video clips, store their digital photo's etc, the bog standard simple chores for a PC. That is certainly the case where my relatives have been concerned. I have less work keeping there computers working than when they a had windows, they find the layout of gnome much simpler and easier to use in turn.
I'm not going to cover the ATi issue, but given that AMD have now (I hear) started proper driver development for Linux and opened up the specifications so others can write 3rd party drivers it is sure to change soon. Its a ATI/Linux problem, not restricted to Ubuntu.
Linux may not be ready for all desktops, but it certainly is ready for some. The best thing to do is try it, if you find it meets your requirments then stick with it and if it doesn't stick with Windows, there is no right or wrong when it comes to your choice of OS, its *your* choice, just make an educated and informed decision.
RE: "Seemingly Ubuntu doesn't support cheapo modern ATI Radeon 7000 cards"
Not really correct, ATi doesn't support linux releasing a buggy and incomplete linux driver. Linux developers have tried their hardest to support ATi cards but ATi just won't cooperate. The NVidia drivers for Linux are another story and they work very well. Linux support widescreen resolutions without any hassles - seems like you got some bad advice there.
I seriously doubt that anyone's first time installing Windows from scratch was any easier than installing Ubuntu. It was just so long ago that you can't remember or more likely you've never had to install Windows from scratch because it came pre-installed.
Linux has improved a thousand fold over the last three or four years. Even in the six months between releases of distributions massive changes take place. I won't dare to claim that linux is now equal to Vista in terms of polish, but ease of use and features easily match XP. All this for free, without paying hundreds of pounds for the privilege. If you've never given linux a go I suggest grabbing a copy of the latest version of Ubuntu (Gutsy Gibbon) when it is released in a couple of weeks. You've got _nothing_ to lose and if you are open minded and have the patience to try something new then your reward will be freedom from Windows forever.
P.S. No I don't use Ubuntu myself, preferring another distro but Ubuntu would be the recommended distro for newcomers.
Oh for Fuck's Sake!
Would you rather that Ubuntu damaged your monitor or video card trying to run at an unsuitable refresh rate or resolution? 800x600 is a sane (if annoying) default used if the setup can't detect the monitor properly. And what is so difficult about running "sudo xorgconfig"?
Ubuntu and Graphics card woes
It's actually ATI that doesn't support linux. If you had nvidia cards it would work pretty well flawlessly. How do I know this? Cause I have a damn ati graphics card and I spent -hours- trying to get it set up and working in various linux flavours. It's the same old story, vendors won't support OSes that have no user base, and users won't use those OSes (in any quantity) until there is vendor support. I eventually decided to go back to windows, and run Ubuntu in a virtual machine. But damn do I miss Beryl.
I want it to be as good..........
and easy to configure (for new users and old) as Windows, when that happens I'll start punting it to my customers, untill then, Must try harder!
I do run a machine using "umbongo"(Ubuntu) I'm happy with it, but my customers would be coming back asking too many questions!
runs fine on my laptop in 1400x900
Hmm sounds like user error to me (the dreaded id10t error). Or perhaps milking off the Redmond teet makes ones linux suddenly not work correctly and gives the desire to tell the world.
RE: It's still Linux = good point
OK, I am a bit of a hypocrite here, as outside of work my use of Linux has dropped off sharply. Whilst I'm sure Ubuntu is actually very good I don't feel any drive to try it myself. In fact, other than a single system with White Glove Linux all my domestic non-Windows systems have been given to other homes or simply been recycled. Whilst ten years ago I would have felt the urge to grab Ubuntu and challenge my way through drivers and recompiles, now I just do most of my home computing on Windoze XP. I know that if I need a Linux system then White Glove does what I need and is a painless single CD install, and if I want a "real" Linux system I can always load up the latest SuSE or Fedora and be about 99% sure of no issues, so why should I try Ubuntu?
Is this apathy endemic in the userspace? Amongst my friends and colleagues it seems to be. I think just getting people to try Ubuntu is the biggest challenge the Ubuntu team face.
"Unbuntu is not yet suitable for domestic users"
Thankfully no distro is completely suitable for the type of domestic user who doesn't want to have to think or learn anything new.
If you just want everything to work straight away so that you can operate your computer in a zombie like state then i hear Ubuntu is better than most (never used it myself) but 'Linux' in general has never and hopefully never will be about that.
The reason that 'Linux' is so great is if you like what you see then fine, get on with it and enjoy the experience. If you don't then that's also fine, either make changes yourself so that you do like it and it does what you want or don't (for whatever reason) and use something else. It makes no difference. No one will be upset if you continue to use Windows or a Mac.
There seems to be a misconception that the 'Linux' community wants everyone to see the light and use the operating system. That may be true amongst a small section (usually quite new users themselves), the sort that are constantly harping on about how bad Microsoft are, but generally i doubt anyone really cares. Especially if it means losing what makes 'Linux' what it is.
I am a windows fan boy
Yes, I am.
However, when I have to use linux, I choose this one as it is just so damn easy to get things done compared to others.
There is a wealth of (friendly) support out there etc and is rather easy to install.
For people who use windows as the primary os, this can be used to great affect with vmware.
Problems with laptops
Well after my corporate laptop rejected my password but I needed internet access (corporate webmail) then I downloaded the current one and gave it a go.
Very smooth, very quick and very nice. Until I noticed that it was doing 1028x768 on the 1440x768 screen. Stretch-o-rama. Googled and found lots of vi editting and people complaining in forums that it wasn't working. Since I was planning to sneakily use if for DVD watching too (which also doesn't work out of the box - but due to having to find deCSS) I was a bit stuck until I remembered I had an old Windows Xp disk in the bag.
Stuck it in and.... it failed since it was using an internal SATA disk which isn't supported until you patch it (one of the SP's). Oh - and windows only accepted a driver FLOPPY disk which as I only had the DVD drive with me was useless.
Eventually got it all going - but both systems are VERY user-unfriendly. Makes jobs for us in IT but they both still have a way to go.
*anonymous posting necessary until I figure out how to explain to corporate IT support why Ubuntu is on their supplied laptop instead of Windows.
gotta love the Register...
they can troll a fanboi flamewar at the same time as trying to flog stuff...
ATI support
Where were you looking for documentation?
Support for ATI does seem to be a bit lacking - though I understand that is because ATI haven't written workable drivers. Nvidia on the other hand have embraced the Linux market and installing Ubuntu on my 20" widescreen machine posed no issues at all. I'm not a hard-core Linux junkie but I managed with very liitle effort on my part.
As an aside - last time I rebuilt my games machine (XP), it took me ages to get off 640x480 on my 26" TFT television as XP set it as default and I had to fight tooth an nail to get wireless networking up and running. To me OS issues are just swings and roundabouts - XP has it's advantages ove Mac/Linux and vice-versa.
it's still ubuntu
I use slackware I can do anything I want ubuntu makes me want to puke. No offense but why bother with it or desktop sissy's. Go back and play on Vista nothing to see here.
It's good, yet it sucks (sort of).
Would not, and I mean WOULD NOT install on my Dell Inspiron laptop gave up after nearly 7 hours (that's how long it took to get to the first set-up screen. After the first hour it was just for sheer hell of it to see how long it took.
Installed in about 25 minutes on my desktop. Looks nice, works ok, blah blah blah. Marginally more firendly than Mandriva.
Had probems with resolution too (with an ATI card, like others above).
A nice attempt at directing linux at the mainstream, but still has a way to go (but the same can be said of any number of distros).
Ahh... a flamewar
"And what is so difficult about running "sudo xorgconfig"?"
This is exactly the attitude (along with any question on a forum or IRC channel yielding, "f*ck off and die windows luser") that ensures that linux will never hit the mainstream.
What's difficult about "sudo xorgconfig" is that unless you know to do it, figuring out to do it is next to impossible. In a UI which is mostly graphically based, a reasonably experienced person can figure out how to do most anything from context. But when the GUI shell is a slapped-on bit of bodywork with essential control hidden behind the command line, specific knowledge is required.
That specific knowledge may not be particularly *complicated*, but a large *amount* of it is required. And those who have gradually acquired it over years of experience assume that some kind of blaring idiocy must be present for an experienced windows user to not just somehow divine it from thin air.
For instance, there's no particular reason a windows user - no matter how intelligent - should be expected to know how command line help facilities work. Or how piping documents through more works. But if you ask a basic question in a linux community, you'll get, "Moron! Read the man pages!" This is pretty much gibberish if you don't ALREADY KNOW the solution to the problem.
So Linux documentation, generally, requires some previous knowledge of linux to use effectively. When users fail to understand how to use tools they've never seen, they're accused of stupidity and told they're not welcome in the community anyway, so screw off (see posts by asdf, Andrew, and tim).
Then the linux community cries because the world is so dumb it won't use linux and uses windows instead.
The problem, unfortunately, is entirely not about the OS itself, or the tech, or the design - which is all most people think about.
The problem is in the arrogant disregard many linux users have for - well, non-linux-users, which results in their simultaneously scrabbling to invite people to their party and then kicking out anyone who arrives for not being cool enough to already be inside.
Compaq Laptop
Ubuntu installed just fine on my Compaq laptop, and everything was detected correctly. Having tried Suse 10, which had no idea, this was a pleasant surprise.
My Netgear wifi card worked after using Ndiswrapper, also a pleasant surprise.
DVD playback (a Linux weakness in my experience) was also painless: A screen warns you that it may not be legal to watch DVD's, but it then asks whether you want to install the software and run the DVD. Again, this worked well.
Ubuntu is very close to being useable by a newbie, and I wish them luck. It is very different to XP, but it has some very clever touches.
Dear David Wiernicki
If you choose to live in the small-minded cul de sac in which you select only those responses from Linux users that affirm your own prejudices then you will never escape that cul de sac. Alternatively you could choose to join the real world where real people choose an OS to suit the real tasks that they wish to accomplish with a PC.
I use XP at work for day to day stuff as it is currently required and at home a mix of XP for games, Suse for a firewall/router, XP but soon to be Ubuntu for home office and Ubuntu on my laptop for traveling and photography. Which machine has caused me the least need to engage any IT skills? The laptop with a straight install of Ubuntu 7.04. It works, it's reliable and it's secure. It even auto-rotates photos imported from my camera's memory cards and that's an unmodified bundled application. Even as a Linux proponent I was pleasantly surprised so now I've started installing Ubuntu for people who break a good installation (i.e. well secured and tweaked) of XP within days.
Now I'll put my nasty Linux person hat on to satisfy your prejudices: stop f*cking whining and look at the way things really are instead of how your pathetic comfort zone would like them to be luser.
@David Wiernicki
> What's difficult about "sudo xorgconfig" is that unless you know to do it, figuring out to do it is next to impossible.
Ah yes, that's right: all Windows users were simply born knowing how to use it. Have you never seen some of the cryptic error messages from Windows? I really can't see the average Joe figuring them out either and still less knowing what to do about them.
> In a UI which is mostly graphically based, a reasonably experienced person can figure out how to do most anything from context.
Yes indeed - and that's exactly what KUbuntu provides - along with the other major distributions. They have done for years.
> But when the GUI shell is a slapped-on bit of bodywork with essential control hidden behind the command line, specific knowledge is required.
It's not a shell, nor is it "slapped on", and nothing is hidden - the underlying systems have a longer history than Windows but unlike Windows, which re-veneers the 'same old same old' and adds more sets of handcuffs with each release, KDE (and probably Gnome) with each new release shows major goodies added and even slicker enhancements that Gates' crew could even dream about. And typically, for a Windows fanboy, the "command line" (it's not that at all, actually) is seen as some sort of complex threat to users. It's no wonder some GUIs get called 'point-and-drool' interfaces.
The concepts are really very simple but they're not Windows' concepts. Seems this is the major bitch for many Windows users taking a look. I'd just call it 'lazy' when they only kick a couple of tyres, give up looking for the 'feed me with a jam spoon' button - and then proclaim that 'Linux is not ready for the desktop'. What, they think Windows *is*? Oh dear oh dear...
There are those who are content to press buttons and don't care/don't notice that there *is* no button for what they'd *like* to do - and then there are those who are a little more interested in what they're doing and making it more productive.
@Stuart Halliday
> I was left trying to use a 800x600 desktop out of a 22" widescreen 1680x1050 screen.
Pfft - it worked perfectly first time with an ancient NVidia card driving my 22" widescreen at 1680x1050 32-bit - I'm using it right now, and required no prodding at all to make it work. It also automatically pulled down the current driver from NVidia. Absolutely everything else was pulled off the installation DVD and worked perfectly first time.
As others have pointed out, the problem was with ATI support and not Linux - some very simple searches (that's what Google is for, remember?) would have shown you in seconds that ATI are playing silly buggers and providing no drivers *and* no information to allow others to write Linux support (although they seem to have realised this approach is costing them their reputation and money).
"sudo xorgconfig" . . . Oh for Fuck's Sake!
And what is so difficult about running "sudo xorgconfig"?
Since "sudo xorgconfig" doesn't do anything on Ubuntu 7.04 and and running "which xorgconfig" as root doesn't show an xorgconfig in the path - fairly difficult I would say.
>> What's difficult about "sudo xorgconfig" is that unless you know to do it, figuring >out to do it is next to impossible.
>Ah yes, that's right: all Windows users were simply born knowing how to use it.
Uhm, actually yes. The problem with windows is not knowing how to use it. My MOTHER can use windows. My Dad can even (at a push) install it on a machine. Neither of them would stand a chance on linux.
What most Linux users (in which I count myself) don't get is that the average non-techie doesn't want to spend time configuring their machine, they expect it to work out of the box. and if it doesn't, then even the most technophobic can handle going to nvidia.com, downloading the driver.exe and running it.
If the Linux community want to "challenge windows", they are going to have to accept that windows actually does a lot of things right. It's the dominant os for a reason (and it's not just microsofts business practices).
cool ubuntu is getting bigger and better - with some cheap books to boot.
Ian McNee,
You couldn't have been a better advertisement for what David was trying to point out. Good job that man for biting the bullet and letting the world know he was right with what he said. With your first sentence no less. Excellent...
For me you have to look at the market. Vista is after twelve years of MS dominance, multi billion pound backing and they produced ME, even more cash and they produce Vista, released too early, not supported and resource hungry monster that is being pushed above all else. XP took seven years to be stable and now works. All of that with a billion pounds and more behind it. Teams of developers and all the world of suppliers doing the hard work for them. Limited use outside the high end spec PC.
Linux is written by geeks, fanboys, professors, college students or part time programmers, a few various threads of development and you get after less years in work, nothing like the cash backing and little to no support at the outset from the mainstream developers. You end up with a more stable OS. Able to boot from anything (pen drive if you want).
An example of the two systems.
You turn on Vista and assuming it works you go looking for how to share a file because default the UAC (great invention) has disabled it. It took knowledge to find it, that knowledge is because you know sort of what XP did and where it did it. Or help files which lead you round in circles. Now find out how to access and edit the registry, needed to run some code yet? It took advanced knowledge for that. Knowledge taken for granted because you know XP. Have you turned off the UAC yet, tried to get around the annoying messages on login that tell you the UAC is turned off. You can't? You haven't got the knowledge for that, not on forums yet? MS won't tell you how to get rid of it?. Have you found out you can't have over three GB of RAM, you only find out on forums and the dreaded KB files because MS marketing skips that bit. Support for the NVIDIA SLi, not in Vista, despite their payoffs to NVIDIA it was 3 months before the Beta was released and it still doesn't work 100%. The list continues but you can see my point.
Two things are at play, one persons hard to find knowledge is one persons experiences with previous releases taken for granted.
And all of the above for Vista can be replaced with Linux. Same kind of things, in the same places trying to sort the same problems. Only one has a billion pound behind it. One doesn't.
I can't see what the fuss is. Ubuntu and Vista have the same kinds of issues just one is free and has a cute symbol, the other is written by M$ and currently costs a small fortune.
Resolution fix
sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
The problem with windows is not knowing how to use it.
"My MOTHER can use windows. My Dad can even (at a push) install it on a machine. Neither of them would stand a chance on linux."
Mom MIGHT be able to use Windows, but how often do you need to put something right for her?
Dad might be able to install Windows 'at a push' but when the choice is installing Windows (on a clean drive) to installing Ubuntu (on a clean drive) there's no contest. (no digging through piles of scratched CDs for drivers, for a start).
THEN when dad's installed the O.S. there's still the office software, antivirus, firewalls, adware.
Try both on a 76-year-olds 500MHz Dell, then tell me Windows is easier to install than Xubuntu.
BTW have they fixed XP so you don't have to have both a floppy and a SATA drive?
> My MOTHER can use windows. My Dad can even (at a push) install it on a machine. Neither of them would stand a chance on linux.
This would make more sense if only you'd had a look at KUbuntu. I know of several cases where yer average Windows user is now doing perfectly well with the KDE GUI, OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird etc. on various Linux distributions - including KUBuntu; one is over 70, the others are 'mom & pop' -types. Not one of them is remotely technical.
> the average non-techie doesn't want to spend time configuring their machine, they expect it to work out of the box.
None of the above spent any time configuring things (unless you include tweaking the required resolution via the GUI), and they all had an installation which worked out of the box. (off the DVD, actually).
> even the most technophobic can handle going to nvidia.com, downloading the driver.exe and running it.
As I said in my earlier post, the KUbuntu installer identified the NVidia card *and installed the driver automatically*. No-one had to go anywhere to download anything.
> If the Linux community want to "challenge windows"
I don't think "the Linux community" can be arsed - they're probably too busy just getting on with things. Besides, with Microsoft losing the plot more and more they're becoming less & less relevant.
> have to accept that windows actually does a lot of things right.
What, you mean like pushing buttons to get lots of stuff done? Well what GUI *doesn't* do that? As for the software, there really isn't much about a spreadsheet, wordprocessor, browser or mail client which could be classified as something which somehow, unlike all the others, Windows just does right.
What WIndows also does is lock users into using proprietary file formats and protocols for no other reason than greedy commercial interests. Microsoft wasn't found guilty of being a rapacious, predatory monopolist because it happened to be a quiet day at the courthouse.
> It's the dominant os for a reason (and it's not just microsofts business practices).
Wrong, quite wrong - and I speak from experience having once worked at a company which intended to sell OS2 Warp along with Windows - until Microsoft threatened to drop the OEM deal. Besides, how many users actually *choose* to use Windows, and how many users just click away because it's what they see when the PC starts for the first time?
There's a reason why Windows is pre-installed on just about everything except table lamps, and that reason has everything to do with Microsoft's dubious business practices and nothing to do with choice or popularity.
@Anonymous Vulture
> The way that you pay for GNU/Linux is the same way that you pay for things like Perl, via the "documentation tax" and the time you have to spend figuring it out.
So why are the bookshelves in any reasonably-sized bookshop groaning under the weight of books about Windows - isn't paying the Redmond Tax enough?
> the "free" documentation supplied with the system is incomprehensible and disorganised, so you have to buy extra books.
Incomprehensible and disorganised to you, evidently - but why buy all those books when you're seated at a browser? The Linux users I know just buy the odd O'Reilly for the deeply technical parts - and that's only because O'Reilly do it so well. But those parts and everything else is still easily available on-line.
> Thus you end up paying more money for the thing than you would have had to pay for a Microsoft operating system.
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Welsh Cob
Scully Submitted by: Victoria Heuer218
Check out breeds related to the Welsh Cob
The Welsh Cob is the largest-sized animal within the Welsh Pony and Cob breed registries. Used originally as a farm animal in Wales during the Middle Ages, the quick and friendly Welsh Cob is generally utilized today as a show horse.
Physical Characteristics
Though it is the tallest -- standing at least 52.8 inches tall -- and stockiest of the Welsh sections, the Welsh Cob's head resembles that of a pony, with large, prominent eyes and a straight profile. It has a long, robust neck, well-defined withers -- the area between the shoulder blades -- and muscular, sloping shoulders. The Welsh Cob's chest is also broad and deep, and its legs are short but well built with flexible joints. All colors are acceptable for the breed except skewbald and piebald.
Personality and Temperament
The Welsh Cob is a safe, receptive and surefooted animal, which makes it an excellent trekking horse. Its obedient and gentle disposition also makes it a terrific mount for disabled riders.
History and Background
Though the exact origin of the Welsh Cob has been lost to time, the breed is mentioned in medieval Welsh literature as a good jumper and swimmer, able to hold and pull a considerable amount of weight. It is also described as an efficient worker on the upland farms, quite capable of carrying loads of timbre from the forests. The Welsh Cob even showed its worth as a war horse, exemplified by the battles won by the Welsh Militia on their Welsh Cobs in the 15th century and helping Henry Tudor gain the English throne in 1485.
Before automobiles came into existence, the Welsh Cob was one of the fastest modes of transport available. Prospective buyers once famously selected a Cob in South Wales by running it uphill from Cardiff to Dowlais, a stretch of about 35 miles. The best horses made it in less than three hours, without compromising on speed and performance.
Today, the Welsh Cobb is best known for its ability to drive horse-drawn vehicles in show competitions. But when mixed with Thoroughbred blood, the Welsh Cobb is also skillful at show hunting and show jumping.
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The dorsal part of the horse between the scapula
A color of a horse's coat; has to do with white spots on a colored coat (all except black)
A pinto animal; a horse with a black and white coat or a coat that is dark in color
An animal's attitude or temperament


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Could a car-free London start in Charlton?
Did you know yesterday (Tuesday) was World Car Free Day? Bet you didn't. The idiot over the road whose car alarm has just gone off certainly didn't. If you live in or near Greenwich, though, you'll have probably noticed one offshoot from it, Greenwich Car Free Day:
Every year, Greenwich celebrates a Car Free Day, where residents leave their cars at home and enjoy a day of fun activities and entertainment. (more)
Except it doesn't seem to be happening this year, and what really happened was that cars were simply diverted away from a couple of streets in the centre of SE10 for a few hours on a Sunday. Still, it was a good thing for Greenwich Council to do, and it's disappointing to see it's apparently been canned this year – I imagine Run to the Beat (which necessitates another closure) and seemingly endless and unpredictable roadworks have seen to that.
But now the car-free movement has inspired a new group – London Carfree. I went up to Islington last week to hear more. It wants to wants to create London's first car-free community, partly inspired by a new district of Freiburg, southern Germany, called Vauban.
Cars aren't actually banned from Vauban, it's stellplatzfrei – "free from parking spaces". If you drive, you have to go at walking pace, and you can only stop to pick up or drop off, parking is officially banned. If you do own a car, you're obliged to use a parking space which costs €17,500 to rent – thought to be the subsidy that car owners get from their use of public roads. Car club vehicles are in plentiful supply, though.
The result, Vauban's backers say, is a more pleasant place to live, where children can play in the streets and people take up cycling as a means to get around. Other forms of car-free community are possible – some ban cars altogether, others bar through journeys.
There was an interesting discussion afterwards – one gentleman voiced fears about losing the "passive surveillance" supposedly provided by motorists, another asked how people without cars did their weekly shop. You can probably imagine the reponse the second question got.
But how could this work in London? Developers have always wrestled with cars here – from the great motorway schemes of the 1960s (of which the Blackwall Tunnel approach is a result) to the disastrous seperation of cars from people in Thamesmead's earlier phases. The 1980s pedestrianisation of Woolwich town centre made it a scary place to be at night, more recent developments such as Greenwich Shopping Park just made congestion worse. Other schemes have just paid lip-service to the ideal – the Greenwich Millennium Village is touted as being "low-car", but why has it got a great big traffic jam through its centre each morning?
Carfree London's response to that is to develop homes with the huge number of Londoners who do not own a car in mind – at least 1.5 million, and a majority of residents in most inner London boroughs. (At least 40% of Greenwich and Lewisham residents do not own a vehicle.) So where could such a community be? I thought locally – most of the Greenwich Peninsula is pretty much answered for now, as are spots in Woolwich, Lewisham and Deptford, and the Kidbrooke regeneration (which could have been an ideal site) is now under way. And, to be frank, with the contempt London's politicians have for it, a carfree Thamesmead sounds like a punishment than an opportunity.
Then I realised a solution could be on my doorstep (almost literally), in an area that's clogged with traffic. Let me introduce you to what's technically called Land To The Rear Of 40 Victoria Way, otherwise known as "the old Thorn Lighting plant" – which is actually right at the back of the site. It's a long, long story, and as far as I know it's not merited any local coverage before.
These days based in Borehamwood and Spennymoor, County Durham, Thorn was (and still is) one of the country's leading specialist lamp manufacturers, and maintained its London operation at what was the Victoria Trading Estate from 1961, advertising its Atlas and Mazda brands on the side facing the Blackwall Tunnel approach. But the Charlton branch was wound up in the mid-1980s, and the site never found a permanent occupier in the years after – its side entrance on Dupree Road bricked up, the back gates on Fairthorn Road left rusting to this day.
The front of the old trading estate, on Victoria Way, remains in use – it's currently used by Squirrel Storage, while another occupier, Kerry Logistics, recently moved to Dartford. Some of the land has been used as a car park when Charlton Athletic play at The Valley, 10 minutes' walk away. The Squirrel site is the last bit of "industry" left on Victoria Way, the lower stretches of which used to be dominated by the Johnson and Phillips/ Delta cable works.
History lesson over. In 2005, Galliard Homes applied to build homes and offices on the Thorn site, outraging neighbours in Dupree Road, Gurdon Road and Fairthorn Road, who understandably didn't want a huge development looming over their neat terraces. Another bone of contention was Galliard's plan to use tiny Fairthorn Road as an access point for the development – not the brightest of ideas when the road's been a sleepy backwater since the day it was built (traffic used to enter Thorn via Victoria Way). Greenwich Council refused planning permission, after advice from then-mayor Ken Livingstone, and finally, so did the government (291KB PDF) after a planning inspector was brought in on appeal.
In 2007, Galliard came back with a modified scheme. They've already pre-sold properties under the name "The Constellation", without actually obtaining permission to do anything – apparently early publicity for the proposal didn't actually mention the word "Charlton", with its website currently implying the site is on the Greenwich Peninsula. And that's where the trail goes cold. Two years on, the application has not been progressed any further.
A whole swathe of local addresses, in Blackheath, Charlton and Greenwich, are listed as being involved in a consultation in October 2008. My address is on there, and I hadn't heard anything, although Greenwich Council's planning department says I should have done. I certainly hadn't seen any notices on lamp posts, the usual sign something's happening. It's not the first time I've not heard anything about a big planning application on my doorstep, and I don't think it'll be the last. (While this is probably a Royal Mail issue, it does highlight once again how poor communication is between the council and the people who pay for it.)
Anyhow, here's what's proposed, according to Greenwich planning:
Demolition of existing warehouse building (9,625 sq.m.) and the erection of a part 2, part 3, part 4, part 5 and part 6 storey building comprising 209 flats (99 x 1-beds; 63 x 2-beds; 44 x 3-beds and 3 x 4-beds), three live/work units (299.3 sq.m.) together with offices (469.1 sq.m.) and associated basement car-parking for 169 vehicles and the provision of external landscaping.
That's parking for 169 vehicles, all meant to use Fairthorn Road. Which, I repeat, is tiny. Because the Thorn site will be separated from the Victoria Way side of the old trading estate, there'll be no access there. A ramp would be built to link Fairthorn Road with the new development, risking the character of this quiet corner of Charlton. All in all it's a very closed-off corner of the world, surrounded by an industrial estate, two railway lines, the Blackwall Tunnel approach and the backs of houses, with only one way in or out. On its own, it's hard to see the Thorn site looking like a desirable place to live.
The present economic climate means it may be a while before we see movement on this land. It's likely, however, that sooner or later, this old industrial land will fall to redevelopment. So perhaps we should be a little more proactive with this? Can't this site become London's first car-free community? If the whole Victoria Trading Estate becomes available – and that would involve moving Squirrel Storage to somewhere suitable – this could become a serious option.
The full site is fantastically located for public transport – midway between Charlton and Westcombe Park rail stations and with a whole heap of bus services nearby. Opening up the whole site for redevelopment also means Victoria Way can also be used for access, taking pressure off Fairthorn Road. It'd double the number of homes that could be built – but would also mean the site would be big enough for a proper community where people took precedence over cars, giving them – and their neighbours – a more peaceful lifestyle.
What do you think? Clearly it's only an initial thought, and one that's partly borne out of bafflement with what's going on at the old Thorn site. If you know any more about the comings and goings there, I'd be grateful to hear it. One day, though, that land is likely to see homes built on it – and it's time we seriously thought about the kind of thing we want to see there, and how we're going to achieve it, instead of leaving it to developers with their eyes on making a quick killing.
If you want further details of Galliard Homes' proposals for the Thorn site in Charlton, use use the Greenwich planning department's search page and look for reference 07/1725/F.
10 Responses
Last time I checked 40% wasn't defined as a majority….
For me a car is an essential part of life if I ever want my children to spend much time with their grandparents. They live 180+ miles away and to get there on public transport is just completely impractical. I do try not to use my car for short local journeys unless absolutely necessary. Although obviously now U have a car, "if it's raining" equates to absolutely necessary, which of course it isn't.
Often wondered what was going on with the Thorn site. Have forwarded info to Ian as he worked there for a fair few years, well he worked for Thorn for about 20 years in total but obviously not all in Vic Way.
I've been pondering (but clearly not yet posting – what a failure my blog is turning out to be!) writing about my experience in recent months of attempting to go 'car-free' at the outer edge of an outermost London borough.
I won't steal my own thunder and/or bore you now by going into full detail, but essentially it boils down to two lists: things you can do out here without a car and things you can't.
(a) Travel to and from just about anywhere in Greater London between about 5am and about 12.30am, with varying degrees of speed and directness.
(b) Do (a) affordably.
(c) Enjoy pretty good flexibility and frequencies of service on the various types of public transport.
(1) Travel very far beyond the boundary of Greater London with anything like the operational hours, flexibility or frequency on offer within.
(2) Get anywhere unserved by TfL buses for anything like a reasonable price.
(3) Leave central London much after midnight and still be able to get home without needing a taxi*/walking for 40 minutes.
(4) Travel a few miles north, across the Thames, without spending around two hours on public transport, or being restricted to shopping hours, high fares and hourly frequencies via the sole Dartford Crossing-using bus between Bluewater and Lakeside.
I think that's the gist of it. In typical everyday terms, the actual day-to-day lists I've encountered in my months of genuinely embracing the 'car only when necessary' approach have pretty much boiled down to – Can: do most stuff, Can't: go to visit my parents a few miles outside Greater London.
Moving towards London, as you know I've been considering doing to Woolwich, would resolve (3) and (4), and make (1) and (2) less relevant as all sides of us would become TfL-served. Still wouldn't resolve getting to my parents', but if it meant we sold the car then I'm sure the savings on running it could fund a taxi from their nearest station or something!
All of which looks like the recipe for, if not the entire contents of, a vaguely interesting post or two for Bexcentric, but possibly an excessively long and somewhat off-topic comment for 853. Sorry!
[* I've still never (as far as I can remember) used a taxi in Greater London, in all my years living in or near it. I don't mean this to sound offensive to those who do use taxis, but to me personally it always feels like the lazy/cop-out/wasteful option, compared to the delights (and I do mean delights) of poring over TfL's wonderful spider bus maps and finding a way to do the same trip by bus instead of calling a cab. It does mean we always end up leaving London by just after midnight, though!]
While a car club might well be a sensible option, I'm afraid I've fallen into the lazy trap of the convenience of having my own car now. And realistically, while we can afford to own one we probably will. It just makes life with two toddlers that much easier. And I need all the help I can get with that at the moment!
Hmmm, you are doing even less consultation that Galliards did. When did you run your idea past the residents of Fairthorn Road and Gurdon Road, many of whom do not have English as their first language and/or do not have access to the web at home? The fumes and air and noise pollution for people in their gardens on the south side of Gurdon Road, from your new car park, would be awful. Not to mention loss of privacy. There would be arc-lights on all night – believe me, what you are suggesting would result in a drastic deterioration in quality of life for people on that side of Gurdon Road, which includes a lot of retired people.
Anyway, Galliards have bought the site, and I am sure that they would make more money out of building dwellings on it than running it as a car park. I seem to remember that it would cost at least a million to demolish the old warehouse.
I was a bit fierce. Apologies. Yes, I live here and was very active in helping to see off Galliards' last two planning applications – created and distributed window stickers, consulted plans, conferred with neighbours, attended and spoke at the public inquiry, accompanied the inspector and Galliards' representatives around when they made their site visit (and arranged for them to visit two or three separate residents in Gurdon Road).
Sorry, but – having lived here since 1979 – I must assure you that a lot of people in this neighbourhood do not have English as their first language.
[...] But while things have certainly changed since then (a public inquiry is yet to report back on a new housing development off Victoria Way, the Greenwich peninsula is much more developed now), I wonder if reviving the Charlton scheme [...]
[...] good news if you live in the Gurdon Road/ Fairthorn Road area. As I wrote last year, a scheme involving the whole warehouse site, stretching out to Victoria Way, would have been [...]


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130km trek to help burns victims
Three men have set off on a 130-kilometre run through south-west Western Australia this morning, to raise money for charity.
The trio started from Cape Leeuwin in Augusta and plan to reach Cape Naturaliste in Dunsborough in under three days.
The runners are trying to raise money for the Peter Hughes Burn Foundation, a charity set up to help burns victims.
Leigh Hughes, the son of Peter Hughes, who was badly burnt in the 2002 Bali bombings, is one of the runners.
He says the run has already received a lot of support.
"We are at about $35,000 right now and we have set ourselves another target now, trying to get to over $40,000, so that would be just great," he said.
Topics: charities-and-community-organisations, augusta-6290, bunbury-6230, dunsborough-6281


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A Tribute to Anne Sexton
Presented by Forest Hills Educational Trust at Forest Hills Cemetery
November 8, 2009
Sexton wrote fearlessly about family, sexuality, rage and joy, pioneering a radical new poetry. Join four writers who knew her well for an afternoon of poetry and reminiscence. Lois Ames, Suzanne Berger, Robert J. Clawson and Victor Howes. A walk to Sexton's grave follows.
95 Forest Hills Avenue
Boston, MA 02130
Admission Info:
$9/$5 Trust members
General Day and Time Info:
Phone: 617.524.3150 ext. 251
Accessibility Information:
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I get health and fitness related emails from several different sources, and about once a month or more, there's one that says something like "The 10 Worst Foods"or "25 Foods You Should NEVER Eat" and then goes on to describe said foods as "diet busting" or similar.
Okay. First of all, I'm not on a diet, so I suppose I don't have to worry about any particular food "busting" my diet, right?
Secondly, aren't we suppose to avoid putting foods in "good" and "bad" categories? I get that these are foods that are so packed with calories, fat, sugar, sodium, etc that they aren't something that one should indulge in regularly, HOWEVER, I think that every healthy eating plan has room for an occasional splurge. Matter of fact, I think if we don't let ourselves go just a little crazy here and there, we're going to be setting ourselves up for the big kaboom, where we give up and dive face first into our old favorites and habits. I also think, if I were to, say, go out and participate in a triathlon, or some other major event that I trained for, I might be inclined to say to myself "Self, you worked darn hard, you trained, you put your all into that event. I say go ahead and get that bloomin' onion." and not feel one little bit of remorse. There are some days where you really, really earned that splurge, ya know?
Thirdly, and this is a big one for me, I really, really, really HATE being told what to do. When I read "You should NEVER eat ________" my mind immediately says "Wow..I really want ______!" I know it's childish, but, they aren't the boss of me, and I'll be darned if they tell me what to do! Even more annoying? When they tell me to NEVER eat whatever delicious food item they've decided will apparently kill me at first bite? They also put a PICTURE of it! Okay, really? Am I so stupid I won't recognize it from the name and description on the menu? Will I go home after dinner, be sitting in the living room, and suddenly realize "OH CRAP! That was the thing I was supposed to NEVER eat! AAAAAAHHHHHH!!!! Welp, may as well give up now...anyone up for dessert?"
Seriously, food police, give it up. You're not the boss of me, and if I read one more of those darn articles, I swear you're going to push me right over to the dark side(they have yummy food there.)
Every once in a while, I get this bright idea that I'm going to get up early to exercise. Today was that day. I enlisted the help of my business partner and best friend, Super Trainer Mike, so I knew it was going to happen whether I liked it or not, that guy is SO a morning person.
I have a vague recollection of waking up during the night, hearing thunder and rain, and seeing lightning, and thinking "Oh YAY, there goes our run, I get to sleep in!" but no....the darn weather cleared up. So I got up at 5:45, Mike showed up at 6:00 and out the door we went so we could be back by 7:00 when my husband had to leave for work.
I did it...it wasn't fast...it wasn't pretty..but I got through it...and I'm really glad I did it, now. It's funny how much I LOVE getting up early after I've done it...just wish the process would be a little easier.
BTW,,,,,that big ratface early riser partner of mine? Went home and went back to bed....lol.
I read a conversation between a couple friends today(on facebook) about age. The first friend, who is under 30, was complaining about feeling OLD (can ya believe it?) and the second said "This almost 35 year old thinks you should SHUSH about getting old." I couldn't resist, I said "This 48 year old thinks you can both complain about getting old if you want, but I'm going out for a run then spending a half hour or so hula hooping."
I've realized I can still do the same things I did in my twenties, I just do them a little slower, and appreciate them A LOT more :)
I hit my first goal today.
I still have 34.5lbs to lose to get to my longterm goal, but my first short term goal was to get under 200lbs, and I weighed in at 199.5 this morning. I'm happy about it, don't get me wrong, but I really thought I'd be....I dunno...happier?
Maybe it's because I know I still have a long way to go, or maybe it's just my general not great mood lately. I did take a little longer on the scale this morning to just stare at the number...and then I thanked God for getting me this far...but I've only told one person I hit that goal (other than here, I mean) my business partner, who is incredibly supportive. Six more lbs to my next weight goal.
I mentioned this on someone else's blog today, and I've thought more about it throughout the day. We(general "we") are always looking for the easiest, fastest solution to things, when sometimes, there just IS no easy answer.
Specifically, weight loss (obviously I'm thinking about weight because, well, it's why I'm here, right?) People are constantly looking for a pill, a drink, a magic potion that will just melt away the pounds, but if there were something like that, would any of us be where we are? I've found when I've told people I've lost "x" amount of weight, the first question is "What's your secret?" There is NO secret! The answer is eating healthy and exercising, but no one seems to want to hear that. Honestly, if wearing a certain kind of shoe, or clothing, would work instead of exercise, wouldn't we all be wearing them? If taking a pill, or a supplement would get rid of the weight, wouldn't we all be taking it?
I mentioned on this other blog, that I recently left a facebook professional women's group because they decided to do a weight loss challenge, and they weren't interested in eating healthy, changing their habits or exercising at all. It was all about which supplement or product they were going to use. I didn't feel right about chiming in about all that stuff being pretty much snake oil, because some of the women there sell the products they're using. That wouldn't have gone over well at all...heh. So I left the group...partially to keep from saying something that would tick someone else off, and partially because I'm co-owner of a business that promotes healthy living. I'm a massage therapist and my partner is a personal trainer. I didn't want to be associated with this "challenge" in any way shape or form. I tossed around the idea of offering my partner's services (he'd have been fine with that) but honestly, I dont' think either of us would have wanted to look like we were promoting the use of the products they were promoting, so I left.
Isn't there a saying or 12 about things that take time and effort being the things that are worth having? I really believe that to be true, and I'm willing to put the time and effort into being the best I can be, rather than looking for that easy fix, that's just a temporary fix in the long run.


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#HeatNation... The Bawse got your back. Even though he admits LeBron is "one of the greatest, if not the greatest ever," it ain't gonna stop big homie from plotting the demise of King James and the Cleveland Cavaliers. In fact, during a recent interview with Funkmaster Flex on NYC's Hot 97, the ra ... More >>
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Rick Ross has may have a "Fuckin' Problem," but a drive-by shooting ain't one. On the same day that Funkmaster Flex debuted the MMG Kingpin's "Fuckin' Problem" freestyle, Rozay was all smiles after leaving a Beverly Hills restaurant yesterday with his head held high and puffing on a fat stogie lik ... More >>
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He was asking for a "big booty ho" on his birthday, but we're pretty positive that 2 Chaniz wrote Santa for a couple of "dem strippers" this Christmas. The lucky bastard just booked a gig at New Time's favorite strip club, King of Diamonds. Hip-hop's explicitly heterosexual equivalent of disco's ... More >>
American Idol has only just begun filming its 11th season. But in the grand tradition of Paula Abdul and Simon Cowell, two of the recent additions to the judges' table are already at each other's throats. Pop stars turned Idol officials, Nicki Minaj and Mariah Carey, really fucking hate each other. ... More >>
And the nominees are ... Kanye West, a handful of other MCs, and seven websites. During 106 and Park last night, actor-comedian Mike Epps announced that he'd be reprising his role as host of BET's annual Hip-Hop Awards, airing October 9, and revealed some of this year's nominees. Yeezy was nomin ... More >>
See also "Memorial Day 2012: Six Best Electronic Music Parties Around Miami." The Beach is about to get flooded, son. At this very moment, there are 250,000 rappers, DJs, celebs, porn stars, strippers, and regular people packing the Hummer full of champagne, cash money, and 12 changes of clothes. ... More >>
See also "Is 50 Cent Dying? Rapper Tweets Pictures from Hospital, Reaches out to Floyd Mayweather." Just one day after having his colon stretched at a New York City hospital, according to Media Takeout, 50 Cent is following in Jay-Z's footsteps and weighing in on President Obama's decision to back ... More >>
Since the mid-'90s, Miami Beach has welcomed some of hip-hop's biggest names during Memorial Day Weekend for an alcohol-fueled, four-day throwdown, commonly referred to as Urban Beach Week. It began as a South Beach fashion event and eventually became an intercity celebration of black culture, com ... More >>
Rep the real shit with Oscar G and Nervous Records.From all the way back in the day when street-level party music label Nervous Records was first founded in 1991, the master plan was always straight-up support for the deepest and grittiest parts of the house and hip-hop subcultures. "The true ... More >>
The famous Free Weezy cupcakesLast week, we re-introduced you to Hialeah's only bespoke, hip-hop-loving cupcake company, 2 Girls and a Cupcake. The two namesake girls, 27-year-old Evelyn Dieppa and 26-year-old Lorena Castro, appear tonight on the Food Network's Cupcake Wars.To celebrate, they're ... More >>
Photo by Ian WitlenDrake is still the best I ever had.Crossfade -- and every other publication in the universe -- was denied reviewer access to last night's Drake show. Our blogger, Esther, took it pretty hard. So, alongside Crossfade's exclusive pics, read her lovelorn open letter. (Then go chec ... More >>
South Florida's busiest head-spinner.
One gets the impression that if there were eight days in a week, DJ Affect would be spinning each and every one of 'em. Hell, it's a bet he'd be spinning every day of the week if there were 10 or 12 or 20 -- that's how driven the cat is. When you're already spinning seven out of seven, what's a few ... More >>
Women spend big money tricking out cars, too.
New York Citys top record dealer sets up shop again in South Florida
In: Sasha and Digweed, the Sagamore, public transportation. Out: DJ Irie.
Around the Storm
Yet another South Florida radio station enters the fray, this time on autopilot
Brooooce! -- and the year in pop music