text:
Breaking news: Damning implications of translated Nencini Report have been incisively commented upon by Selene Nelson and Chelsea Hoffman with many others in US and UK media now absorbing. Interest will peak late March when Italian Supreme Court rules on the RS/AK appeal against the Florence appeal court findings
All our posts on Amanda Knox
Monday, September 29, 2014
The Knox Interrogation Hoax #14: Dr Mignini's Knowledge Of Knox "Interrogation" Explained To Media
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
Dr Mignini examines Knox July 2009 on the "interrogation" at her own initiative
1. Overview Of This Post
Post #1 includes an overview of the entire series and links to all posts up to this one.
Knox has repeatedly claimed that Dr Mignini was present at the informal summary/recap session led by Inspector Rita Ficarra, the actual purpose of which was merely for Knox to suggest a few possible leads the police might interview.
He wasn't there, though. And he has repeatedly explained that at the second session ending with a second insisted-upon statement by Knox at 5:45 AM, his entire role was to read Knox her rights, and to advise her to say no more until she had appointed lawyers. (Regardless, she then insisted on dictating that second statement.)
Dr Mignini more than anyone else at the central police station that night developed a complete overview of how the two sessions had proceeded.
THREE TIMES Knox willingly put herself under his questioning (December 2007, January 2008, July 2009) to attempt to shake this. While his questioning was formal, polite and quite mild, Knox's recollection of 5-6 November was scrambled or devious (some think she and RS were both high on hard drugs).
So by the end of those sessions Knox seems to have made a complete disbeliever of Dr Mignini, swayed few if any in Italy, and certainly did not sway the judges of the trial court or any appeal court.
But few English-language reporters other than Andrea Vogt, John Follain and Barbie Nadeau have interviewed and reported Dr Mignini in depth fairly, and there are a number of English-language reporters to whom he kindly gave time who mangled what he lucidly and fairly explained to them.
In July 2009 Dr Mignini wrote an acerbic email to Linda Byron of Seattle TV to attempt to straighten out her own understanding, and although she seemingly tried to hide it, we captured it and translated and posted in full his explanation.
Highly worth reading.
In mid 2011 a similar thing happened. Drew Griffen of CNN was given a three-hour on-camera interview - and sarcastically broadcast cherrypicked and mangled responses from Dr Mignini. Again we obtained Dr Mignini's full statement, and Skeptical Bystander posted the whole thing in three long parts, with translation by Clander, Yummi, Jools, Thoughtful, TomM and Catnip.
Again, highly worth reading.
In the first 20 minutes of the second hour of the interview, Drew Griffen tried to give Dr Mignini a hard time over the so-called Knox interrogation. Drew Griffen was abysmally informed of the testimony at trial we have been posting and had no idea of the substance of Knox's one interview on 5-6 November or the fact that this was merely a recap/summary session not ever requiring recording.
Dr Mignini had not himself testified at trial, and he led the testimony of others present on 5-6 November very fairly and without defense protests about any bias. And Dr Mignini is not under oath here. However this 20-minute segment is important, for it reinforces that Knox was treated extremely fairly and she had no genuine reason for complaint about it.
2. From Mid-2011 Interview By CNN With Dr Mignini
0'40'' English question [Translator's note: These words are in English in the Italian transcript of which this document is a translation.]
0'48'' CNN: You didn't interrogate Amanda?
0'50'' Mignini: Oh, the police interrogated her. I was told about it. I wanted to explain this. I remember that I had gone to sleep and the director of the flying squad, Dr. Profazio, called me, because he tells me: "There are developments; Raffaele in fact has denied what he had said before". So I went down and the head of the flying squad told me what had happened. At some point they tell us that Amanda has made this statement.
And thus her interrogation as a person informed of the facts was suspended by the police in compliance with Article 63 of the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure [c.p.p. - Codice di Procedura Penale], because if evidence appears that incriminates the person, the person being questioned as a person informed of the facts can no longer be heard, and we must stop. "Everyone stop! There must be a defense attorney [present]". And thus the police stopped and informed Amanda, who had placed herself on the scene of the crime and who said that she had accompanied Lumumba and let him in and that then Lumumba, in the other room, allegedly committed a sexual act and killed Meredith. This is what she said.
2'11'' Then I was called, I was informed about this, I went to Amanda who, I remember how she was, what she looked like, I remember her very well, she remained imprinted in my memory, I still remember then two things about Amanda that struck me at the time: first, she looked like she was relieved of a burden and second, she was like, and this is another detail that was impressive, it seemed as if she was terrified of Lumumba.
20'48'' Then I, as I had in some way to, let's say… this police interrogation had been suspended. At that point I remember that… they made me notice that Amanda, because she wanted to go on talking, I remember she had, like a need to. So I told her: "you can make statements to me; I will not ask questions, since if you make a spontaneous statement and I collect it, I will collect your statement as if I were in fact a notary". She then repeated [her story] to the interpreter, who was Mrs. Donnino, I remember there was a police woman officer who wrote the statement down [verbalizzava], I did not ask questions. She basically repeated what she had told the police and she signed the statement. Basically I didn't ask Amanda questions. Not before, since the police asked them and I was not there, and not after, since she made spontaneous statements. Had I been asking her questions, a defense attorney should have been there. This is the procedure.
05'24 CNN: She had an interpreter during the whole time?
05'26'' Mignini: Yes.
05'29'' CNN: She says no.
05'32'' Mignini: Look the interpreter was there, when I heard her there was the interpreter. The interpreter Anna Donnino, who is an interpreter for the police; she was hired by the police.
Just like I believe that there was [before], I do not have the minutes now, but yet now this is a fact, it is undisputed that there was an interpreter.
06'02'' CNN: Amanda Knox says she was interrogated for 14 hours…
06'11'' Mignini: No, look, absolutely not. At 1 a.m., the minutes of Nov 6th has started at 1 a.m. and I arrived, 14 hours that cannot be, we are really… that's absolutely impossible. So the minutes were done at one o'clock, then the minutes of the spontaneous declaration was taken at 5.45, it maybe lasted half an hour because no questions were asked. She made her statements; they were translated; then at around 8 a.m., I think, at approximately 8, I drew up the detention order. Thus it is… well, she had been heard earlier, so she had been questioned as a person informed of the facts at around one forty-five a.m. She had previously been heard by a female police officer, but [that's] because she had gone voluntarily to the police and she reported that, she said things quite relevant to the investigation of Raffaele and was heard by the inspector [Rita] Ficarra. However this [event] ... I was not there, I do not know [about it]. But remember, there are the minutes. Then the minutes in which she was questioned as a person informed of the facts starts at 1:45 of November 6, and cannot have lasted 14 hours ... in no way whatsoever. Then she was arrested at around 8 a.m. or at about 9 a.m. or so.
08'16'' Mignini: Look, I remember what I saw when I saw her personally, because she said, I told her: "you can make, if you deem it [necessary], a spontaneous statement, because Italian law provides for this. If a person is aware that he/she is suspected [under investigation], may request to speak before a magistrate, it happened many times, they came also to me, and they say "I want to make a statement". Very well, I listen. If I listen, I wanted this to be highlighted…. to be clear, I listen and that's all, and I ask no questions, the defense attorney may be not present. But if I ask questions and I object to the facts [of your answers], it is like an interrogation and thus we would need a defense attorney.
09'10'' CNN: was [Amanda Knox] scared?
09'11'' Mignini: Well, I recall this feeling that I had in that moment which, [as] I am explaining to you, in the spirit in which I am doing this interview, to explain to you the acceptance [adozione] of our requests [provvedimenti], what was, why the trial went in a certain way. [Translator's note: The Italian in the CNN transcript is nearly incomprehensible. We have provided the foregoing on a best effort basis.]
09'36'' She was, she seemed to me like she was uplifted, freed of a weight, and terrified of Lumumba. That's an impression that has stayed with me, yet I don't understand. I remember that there was a policeman who was called, from the SCO [Servizio Centrale Operativo] in Rome, who made an impression on me because he was very fatherly. She was crying as though freed of a great weight, and he was trying to console her. I remember there was also a policewoman who, well, she…[missing word?] and I'm sure that.. [missing word?] .. well, all that picture how it was described later… at that moment it wasn't like that. Right then, there was a situation in which I was trying to console her, to encourage her, because actually we believed that she had told the truth.
11'03'' CNN: No one hit her?
11'06'' Mignini: No, look, absolutely not. I can state this in the most positive way, and then, let's say… I wasn't there when she was being questioned by police, the rooms are quite far away… you don't know but I was… it's quite far, there's a corridor, and I was with the director, Dr. Porfazio, and she was being questioned in a different place. I also remember that passing through, I also saw Sollecito who was alone in a different room; he was also being questioned, as I recall. I don't exclude…well…it's clear that I wasn't there, but I don't believe that anything whatsoever happened, and in my presence absolutely not.
11'55'' On the contrary, there was an attitude of… I mean they gave her [some] ... [missing word?] then she was like, you know, like someone crying from a sense of liberation, as though she had been freed. That was the attitude.
12'51'' CNN: Why wasn't there any video or transcript of those hours?
13'00'' Mignini: Look, that's, I was at the police station, and all the…let's say…when I made investigations in my own office, I taped them. I taped them, we have an apparatus for that, and I transcribed them. For example, there's the interrogation of the English girls, Meredith's friends, it was all taped. The interrogations of Amanda in prison were taped, and then transcribed, and we have the transcripts of… But in a police station, at the very moment of the investigation it isn't done, not with respect to Amanda or anyone else. Also because, I can tell you, today, even then, but today in particular, we have budget problems, budget problems that are not insignificant, which do not allow us to transcribe. Video is very important…I completely agree with you that videotaping is extremely important, we should be able to have a video recording of every statement [verbale di assunzione di informazioni] made Because what is said is very important, but it's maybe even more important how it is said, the non-verbal language. Because from the non-verbal language you can [missing words].
15'14'' Mignini: It isn't only Amanda, it's always like that. But I wanted to say that I agree with him that it's fundamental, only there's a problem, especially when the witnesses are so numerous, and in fact just recording, I mean recording the sound, isn't enough according to me.
15'38'' CNN: It doesn't cost much, he says.
15'40'' Mignini: Well we have significant budget problems, that's what it is.
15'38'' CNN: So in the end, you did get a confession. But then, everything that was written in the confession became a lie?
16'16'' Mignini: But then, there was the fact that she placed herself at the scene of the crime, and Lumumba wasn't there, together with the three of them, the two of them, but Rudy was there, according to the facts that emerged later. But the fact of having accused…and she's even accused of calumny in regard to Lumumba, was an element that was very important from the point of view of her legal position at the trial. Why accuse someone of participating in a crime, placing yourself at the scene of a crime? Because with those declarations, she placed herself at the scene, at the place of the crime. And she placed someone there who was a complete stranger to it. Why did she do that? There is one detail that's particularly significant. Above all when Lumumba was arrested and no one – if it hadn't been for the Public Prosecutor's Office that conducted the investigation, and that is mandated to seek elements in favor of the accused, Lumumba would have stayed in prison. But we investigated, and we saw that Lumumba wasn't involved, that he was the object of calumny and so he was freed and the case against him was archived.
18'15'' CNN: Was she asked to imagine what might have happened?
18'24'' Mignini: No, absolutely not. Either you saw a person or you didn't. I can't ask someone what they imagine because it would be a question that doesn't mean anything, that I even don't understand.
This really does finish our posting of the case for the prosecution on this "interrogation" issue, though at least half a dozen other investigators provided supportive testimony which we have not yet quoted.
Next, how all of the Italian courts up to Cassation concluded that Knox's claims were unsupported, contradictory, and damaging, and how her three-year prison sentence served was well justified.
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Police and CSI, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, The twelve hoaxes, Knox interrog. hoax
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (22)
Saturday, September 20, 2014
The Knox Interrogation Hoax #13: Proof Released That In 5-6 Nov Session Knox Worked On Names List
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
This is the first part of Rita Ficarra's memo, please click for whole thing, translation is below.
It was this memo above all that convinced a row of Italian courts that Knox's calunnia accusation of Patrick was uncoerced, and that for that serious felony she should serve three years.
Kristeva kindly did the translation below. We described its extreme consequence (still constraining the Perugia defense teams today in non-support of Knox's heated-interrogation claims) in the Knox Interrogation Hoax Post #12.
This memo records the main outcome of Rita Ficarra's 75-minute summary/recap session (defenses conceded it was not an interrogation session) with Knox with an interpreter and two others present. Rita Ficarra wrote the memo some hours later, on the evening of 6 November, after she had caught up on some sleep.
It is based on a handwritten version Knox painstakingly evolved on a page of her notebook, which she then tore out and handed to Inspector Ficarra. That handwritten page is in evidence too.
The timing here is key. According to the testimony of Rita Ficarra and the interpreter Anna Donnino, the real work on the list only began around 12:30 after Anna Donnino arrived. It took all or most of the next hour. Knox obtained all the phone numbers from her mobile phone which she handed over to the others present at several points. (Those phone numbers are long disused.)
Annotation By Rita Ficarra
On 6 November 2007, at 20.00, in the offices of the Flying Squad of the Questura of Perugia. The undersigned Officer of P.G. [Attorney General], Chief Inspector of the State Police FICARRA Rita, notes that, as part of the investigation of the murder of British citizen Meredith KERCHER,
On the night of November 5th c.a. [current year], at approximately 23.00, while in the Offices of the Questura of Perugia, along with Amanda KNOX, waiting for the same to be heard in regard to the fact for which we are proceeding,
Learned, informally. news related to some male subjects who certainly knew MEREDITH and of whom Amanda gave indications on their respective residences—drawing roads and landmarks in her notebook – as well as their mobile phone numbers.
The same [Amanda] extracted these phone numbers from her mobile phone contacts and copied them on a piece of paper torn from her notebook and handed it to the undersigned.
The subjects indicated by Amanda were described as being:
PJ – Peter, a Swiss young man of Swiss nationality who certainly frequented Meredith and who would have surely been several times to their home; this young man dwelled in Via della Pergola, precisely in front of the "Contrappunto" club and close to the stairs and parking lot; mobile phone: 3891531078;
Patrik, owner of the pub "Le chic" where [the same] Amanda works. He too certainly knew Meredith. She was not able to provide an address but indicated that she had often seen him near the "rotonda [roundabout] of Porta Pesa, next to the Laundromat. Mobile phone number: 338719523;
Ardak, North African citizen of whom she gave no other indications other than his mobile phone: 3887972380;
Yuve, Algerian citizen who occasionally worked at "Le Chic" and would have dwelled in Via del Roscetto (near the residence of Sophie) phone; 3203758112
Spyros, young man of Greek nationality of whom Amanda does not give any indications other than the mobile phone: 3293473230
Shaky, Moroccan citizen who would have been working in a "pizzeria" and who frequented the pubs and discotheques frequented by Meredith's group of friends with whom they met at the pub or discotheque, friend of Sophie;
Lastly she informed of another South African young man, black, short, who plays basketball in the Piazza Grimana court, who would have, in one occasion, frequented the house.
At the tail end of this meeting, after all this work had been done, Knox was gently told that in his own interview, Sollecito's account of his movements on the night Meredith was killed now departed from her own.
A short period of extreme uncertainty followed.
Then Knox's message in response to Patrick showed up in her outgoing texts, although she had just said there was none, and she was asked who he was. Those four others present had no prior knowledge of Patrick and no reason to attach to him any blame.
Knox's conniption then began, in which she accused Patrick of the crime. Her accusation was repeated again and again. She then insisted on drafting her first formal written statement accusing him. It said she went out implying that she left Sollecito alone which is a claim he has now and then tried to gain from.
This series: where next? Next, one post summarising the conclusions of all the courts. Then a series of posts quoting Knox and many other (Preston, Douglas, Moore, Clemente, Fischer, on and on) over five years, falsely claiming the police were brutal and none of the above was so.
False accusations of crimes are chargeable; so we look forward to seeing their responses to all of this. Knox for sure will be charged. Three years in prison - and nothing at all sunk in? The opposite of smart.
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Police and CSI, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, The twelve hoaxes, Knox interrog. hoax
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (11)
Friday, September 12, 2014
Those Channeling Potentially Illegal Funding To RS And AK Should Definitely Take Note Of This
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
GoFundMe has dropped this page of Sollecito's which was soliciting funds under false pretenses
The increasingly tough American bloodmoney laws (Son of Sam laws) were described here and here.
These laws are operable at the federal level and in most states. The tendency is for the laws to be made more and more tough, and to spread the net of who could be charged more and more widely.
Book publishers and TV networks have armies of lawyers who usually step in smartly to stop them being party to illegal money flows. All American TV networks have codes of ethics which prevent fees being paid that reward a crime.
The bloodmoney net could be spread widely in the Perugia case if the Republic of Italy requests the invoking of these laws against Knox, Sollecito, their families, and the in-it-for-the-money opportunists such as Sforza, Fischer, and Moore.
Their PR help also appears to be at risk, along with the shadow writers, book agents and publishers of the two books.
Sollecito might have got a blessing in disguise then when GoFundMe the private-purposes fundraising site closing down his begging page (image above) after around $40,000 had been conned from the sheep.
GoFundMe did that as part of a move to keep the company and the site away from controversy and the long arm of the law. This move is fairly typical of a broad trend on the internet as courts increasingly sentence harrassers, abusers, swindlers and money-grubbers to tough terms.
Making money out of crime has never been a walk in the park, and anything gained rarely goes very far.
Trying to make money illegally is fundamentally why OJ Simpson (images below) is serving a term for armed robbery east of Reno in Nevada - and in that case he considered the property he was robbing at a Las Vegas casino hotel was actually his own.
In his case his wife and a friend were found slashed to death at her home a mile or two from his. Simpson nearly fled the country before trial, then he won an acquittal at criminal trial, and then he was convicted at a wrongful-death civil trial. Wikipedia explains.
On February 5, 1997, a civil jury in Santa Monica, California, unanimously found Simpson liable for the wrongful death of and battery against Goldman, and battery against Brown. Daniel Petrocelli represented plaintiff Fred Goldman, Ronald Goldman's father. Simpson was ordered to pay $33,500,000 in damages. In February 1999, an auction of Simpson's Heisman Trophy and other belongings netted almost $500,000. The money went to the Goldman family.
To avoid ever making any of the required payments to the Goldman family, Simpson squirreled assets and income away.
The items he wanted back at the point of a gun at the Palace Station hotel and casino would have been worth a lot. But instead this foolish financial crime could cost him up to 33 years.
Our take is that Sollecito may have squirreled away some of his gains, and Knox may have squirreled away much more. US law enforcement is capable of finding those payments if asked and if Knox's family and paid help don't press her to cough up.
Hopefully it will be made to sink into that Knox's panhandling (she is still at it via her website via Paypal) was not such a good idea.
Archived in Officially involved, Rudy Guede, Amanda Knox, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, Knox's book, The Sollecitos, Sollecito's book, The twelve hoaxes, Other legal cases, Associated trials
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (22)
Monday, August 25, 2014
The Knox Interrogation Hoax #12: Why Prosecution And Defenses Never Believed Knox's Version
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
Famous criminal lawyer Dr Giancarlo Costa - did he depart Knox's team with doubts about her?
Recapitulating Our Purpose
In Post #11 below we hinted at two items - in fact, they are two documents - that resulted in a sharp drop in Knox's credibility.
We said this about how Knox's Perugia lawyers were affected.
It seems impossible to know about these items, and yet still believe that Knox was telling the truth. Lawyers often encourage their clients to tell the truth and good lawyers never encourage their clients to lie. And yet here Ghirga, Dalla Vedova, Bongiorno and Maori would have known from latest early 2008 that Knox's claims on the "interrogations" were in fact made up.
And if so, they must have asked themselves, why? Why did Knox have to lie? In all the legitimate legal processes, meaning all those except the Hellmann appeal, the defense lawyers were seen by close observers to be dispirited and lacking the full punch that the certainty of innocence can bring.
Knox was lying. And they all knew. No hard proof, but it explains the timid cross-examinations. And it was the buzz around Perugia maybe put out by the Sollecito faction for which there is a sort of soft proof.
The one heavyweight among Knox's lawyers, a prominent criminal lawyer from Rome called Dr Giancarlo Costa, who was with her at the 6-hour 17 December 2007 questioning (which we turn to next) inexplicably departed from her team early-on, leaving her with the much less experienced Ghirga and Dalla Vedova.
Sharp-eyed Andrea Vogt and Barbie Nadeau both noticed that no mention of Dr Costa was made in Knox's book. Late in 2009 and again late in 2011 Andrea Vogt interviewed him, and he seemingly suggested that Knox might have been better served at the end of the process by a negotiated plea, in effect similar to Guede's. (If so, he is now proved right, and the remaining Knox lawyers or her family made a very bad call.)
We said this about how all the prosecutors and all the judges were affected.
In the years that followed since, these two items helped to changed legal mindsets, from Prosecutor Mignini, to Judge Matteini, to Judge Micheli, to Judge Massei, to even Judge Hellmann, and so on to Cassation and the Nencini appeal.
Describing The Two Incriminating Items
Now we turn to the two items, the two documents, the two elephants in the room. They are rock-solid confirmation of all the testimony by investigators in Posts #2 to #9, and in days of defense cross-examination they were not argued with. They were correctly guessed by several emailers. They are of course:
(1) Rita Ficarra's notes of the 12:45 session
Inspector Ficarra wrote up these notes at 8:00 pm on the evening of 6 November, about six hours after Knox and Sollecito were carted off to Capanne Prison.
This was long before she knew she would be contradicted and years before she knew she would be accused of criminal actions. The notes were in evidence, and it was clear during cross-examination that the defense teams had studied them.
She recorded a description of the session in direct line with her testimony in Hoax Post #2 and Hoax Post #3 and Hoax Post #4. It anticipated perfectly the scenario that emerged from other investigators present.
(2) Knox's hand-written list of seven names
She wrote these out along with maps and annotations. The list had very obviously been created over a prolonged period of time. This must have occupied all but the final minutes of the session, at which point she lost her cool, had her first conniption, and fingered Patrick.
Here again from Post #2 is the testimony about it by Rita Ficarra. GCM stands for Judge Massei and GM stands for Dr Mignini.
RF: At that point I say to her: "for me it is important then that we write these [names etc down], that therefore, since you are waiting [NdT. i.e. for Raffaele], let's go do a follow-up to the recap that you have already given me, have already submitted to me". So I go to the office, that is to say, I go into the office room, and we begin to write.
GM: Listen: before continuing, she wrote a note?
RF: Yes.
GM: The note: you can, I believe you can consult/examine/refer to it.
GCM: Yes, certainly, it is permitted to consult/examine/refer to her records.
GM: I am referring to everything that that note reported.
RF: Yes, I've already said that, in effect… The note of 6 November, at 2000 hours, I made it in the evening because having then not slept for two days, I went [straight] to bed in morning when I finished. Morning and afternoon.
The first part I've already related and it gives me indications about these boys, about non-Italians, about a certain PJ Peter Svizzero, who had seemingly been several times in their home and who lived nearby the area of via della Pergola 7.
Patrick, of the [sic] owner of the pub, Le Chique [sic], where she herself worked, I've already said, she gives me the mobile-phone information.
Then she speaks of a certain Ardak, a North African citizen, and gives me the mobile-phone information.
A certain Juve, an Algerian citizen, who worked occasionally at the Le Chique [sic] pub and who apparently lived in the vicinity of the home of another of the victim's friends.
Sofie [sic]; also for him she gives me the mobile information.
Spiros, a young lad of Greek nationality, for whom she givers me only the mobile-phone information.
Shaki [Hicham Khiri], a Moroccan citizen who works in a pizzeria, frequents the [same] pubs [as those] frequented by all the girls of the victim's group, and [is] also friends with Sofie [sic].
She furthermore reports about a black South African boy, short, who plays basketball in the Piazza Grimana court, [and] who on one occasion had apparently visited the home of the boys who lived underneath the apartment.
So Knox eagerly devoted considerable time to recalling and explaining who Peter Svizzero, Patrick, Ardak, Juve, Spiros, Shaki and a South African [Guede, disguised] were, with maps to some of their places and phone numbers thrown in. She was talking and writing at the same time. The four investigators needed to do little more than sit watching.
Contrast The "Explanation" In Knox's Book
In her book Knox makes no mention of any of the above.
Fom 2007 to 2013 when her book came out, Knox's tendency was to expand upon and embellish her own explanation for her conniption and fingering of Patrick.
This was despite the fact that her two-day stint on the stand in July 2009 focussed exclusively on this was disbelieved by the Massei judges and by most Italians who watched.
It was also despite the fact that she served three years for this with her guilty verdict confirmed even by Judge Hellmann labeling her a felon for life.
It was also despite the fact that after the 2009 trial those investigators she had impugned at trial sparked new charges still to be faced in a Florence court.
It was also despite the fact that more charges for her 2013 book and her Oggi interview are expected to be added by the chief prosecutor in Bergamo.
Amazingly, she was still digging herself in deeper as late as 2014. By far her longest, most self-serving and most surreal version of the session appeared as Chapter 10 of her book.
This chapter is 20 pages long and consists of page after page after page of invented dialogue. Everybody has long known that the last few pages were Knox's malicious invention.
That the rest of the pages are too is also dead-certain.
Neither Rita Ficarra's notes nor Knox's list of names with maps and notes,one of which she created and both of which were repeatedly testified to right in front of her, are even mentioned anywhere in Knox's book.
This dishonest dialogue and mass accusation of crimes is what Knox and Linda Kulman give us instead:
Police officer Rita Ficarra slapped her palm against the back of my head, but the shock of the blow, even more than the force, left me dazed. I hadn't expected to be slapped. I was turning around to yell, "Stop!"—my mouth halfway open—but before I even realized what had happened, I felt another whack, this one above my ear. She was right next to me, leaning over me, her voice as hard as her hand had been. "Stop lying, stop lying," she insisted.
Stunned, I cried out, "Why are you hitting me?"
"To get your attention," she said.
I have no idea how many cops were stuffed into the cramped, narrow room. Sometimes there were two, sometimes eight—police coming in and going out, always closing the door behind them. They loomed over me, each yelling the same thing: "You need to remember. You're lying. Stop lying!"
"I'm telling the truth," I insisted. "I'm not lying." I felt like I was suffocating. There was no way out. And still they kept yelling, insinuating.
The authorities I trusted thought I was a liar. But I wasn't lying. I was using the little energy I still had to show them I was telling the truth. Yet I couldn't get them to believe me.
Huh? Really? In fact only four were involved. The conversation was low-key. The list of names did emerge. Knox was never yelled at or hit, as her own lawyers publicly confirmed. And Rita Ficarra and others describe some exceptional kindnesses shown to Knox, before and after she spontaneously became disturbed, which at trial Knox confirmed.
Knox and Linda Kulman give us twenty more pages of this mass accusation of crimes, which not one witness confirmed or any court believed, more than enough to occupy the entire session, leaving no time for all the work on that list of names which was the sole point of the session and undeniably exists.
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Police and CSI, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, The twelve hoaxes, Knox interrog. hoax
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (16)
Thursday, August 21, 2014
The Knox Interrogation Hoax #11: ChallengeTo Readers: Spot The Two Landmines For Lawyers & Knox?
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
American supporters of Knox argue that the "interrogation" is a "she said/they said" situation. One in which it is Knox that tells the world the truth.
And that the police had closed ranks to hide a brutal hours-long session resulting in Knox framing Patrick and that the "lost" recording of the "interrogation" would prove that she is the one that is right.
There is, of course, no recording, as it was an impromptu recap/summary session, with someone who might or might not have relevant information for the police. No legal system in the world requires the taping of that.
But there is in fact hard evidence the other way, that the investigators told the world the truth. Two items. Each mentioned often and assumed as givens in Posts #2 to #9.
Even if the days of crushing testimony left undented by cross-examination which we have posted was not enough, these items prove that the first scenario here is the truth and Knox has ever since lied.
Because several defense lawyers remarked on them without debating them, in cross-examining all the investigators who had any encounter with Knox on 5-6 November, all the defense counsel unquestionably knew that the items lurked there in the evidence pile in plain sight.
It seems impossible to know about these items, and yet still believe that Knox was telling the truth.
Lawyers often encourage their clients to tell the truth and good lawyers never encourage their clients to lie. And yet here Ghirga, Dalla Vedova, Bongiorno and Maori would have known from latest early 2008 that Knox's claims on the "interrogations" were in fact made up.
And if so, they must have asked themselves, why? Why did Knox have to lie?
In all the legitimate legal processes, meaning all those except the Hellmann appeal, the defense lawyers were seen by close observers to be dispirited and lacking the full punch that the certainty of innocence can bring.
In the years that followed since, these two items helped to changed legal mindsets, from Prosecutor Mignini, to Judge Matteini, to Judge Micheli, to Judge Massei, to even Judge Hellmann, and so on to Cassation and the Nencini appeal.
If they are landmines, in the legal process they long ago went off.
And all along Knox should have known that the items exist, they were repeatedly talked about right in front of her in the court. But Knox makes no mention in her book, or in her appeals, or in her email to Judge Nencini, or in her appeal to the ECHR (we presume). How odd.
What were these items? Answers on Monday if nobody drops to them before. Good luck.
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Police and CSI, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, The twelve hoaxes, Knox interrog. hoax
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (32)
Tuesday, August 19, 2014
The Knox Interrogation Hoax #10: The Guiding Magistrate's Reasoning Three Days After 5-6 November
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
Judge Claudia Matteini, the key decision maker in the emerging case for 12+ months 2007-08
1. Previously In This Series
Post #1 sets out the two versions of Knox's sessions at the central police station on 5-6 November 2007.
The first version has in total about two dozen eye witnesses, and it is the one that prevailed at the Massei trail and throughout all of the appeals - Hellmann in 2011 (this part was not annulled), Casssation in 2013, and Nencini in 2014. Cassation in 2013 made Knox's verdict and sentence of three years for the false accusation against Patrick final.
The second version lacks any independent witness, although Sollecito makes some claims in his book that could be assumed to help Knox. There seems no sign that Knox's own lawyers in Perugia have ever bought into any part of it, they have never lodged a complaint, they did not pursue it in cross-examination, and they have even cautioned against it.
Knox's lawyers seemed jumpy when Knox pursued elements of it (unconvincingly to the court) in her two days of testimony in July 2009. Despite this, it is still sustained by Knox herself (in several contradictory versions) and by a number of PR campaigners.
Posts #2 to #9 quote the relevant trial testimony of the six investigators (scroll down) who had the major roles in the 6-7 November sessions.
2. Judge Matteini's Report 9 November
The image at top is of Judge Claudia Matteini.
This key post by Nicki describes how every one of the numerous hoops Italian police and prosecutors must jump through is presided over by a guiding magistrate.
Finally, in this ultra-cautious process, if the investigation has not been dropped and the guiding magistrate is confident that the police and prosecutors have made a case, they can then order it submitted directly for short-form trial (as with Guede) or for a trial judge (like Judge Micheli) to decide if there is a case for a long-form trial.
At this point, 9 November 2007, the police investigations were far from done, and the existence of Guede was not yet known (though Knox hinted at him on 6 November) let alone the role he is serving 16 years for.
The investigations continued through the summer of 2008 with Judge Matteini re-entering the process repeatedly. Even after the summer of 2008 additional witnesses were being sought and several including Kokomani and Quintavalle only came forward later.
On 9 November 2007 Judge Matteini had before her the police summaries of evidence and witness and suspect statements. Knox and Sollecito were placed under arrest on 6 November and she had held separate hearings with Knox, Sollecito and Patrick with their lawyers present on the day before (8 November)
Sollecito had seen his lawyers on 7 November in Capanne Prison. Sollecito submitted a new statement for his own 8 November hearing which famously starts off "I wish to not see Amanda ever again."
On 8 November Knox's lawyers had just been appointed. Knox and her lawyers were perhaps at a disadvantage in the hearing, having just met. But Judge Matteini was not fact-finding and her only decision was to remand the three (including Patrick) in prison. Knox's opportunity to talk came on 17 December 2007 in Capanne before Dr Mignini (see Post #11 onward).
On 6 November Amanda Knox had submitted three statements all linked to in Part 1 here and all written at her own insistence. Judge Matteini disallows these for use against Knox but allows them for use against others, later confirmed in a Cassation ruling which oddly was claimed as a new victory by Knox forces. The statements were never ruled illegally obtained.
Click here for the rest
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Police and CSI, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, The twelve hoaxes, Knox interrog. hoax
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (11)
Friday, July 18, 2014
Knox Camp Illusions: Multiple Examples Of How RS And AK Have Tried To Apply More Blame To The Other
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
Not a very accurate report ("drifter"?) but it IS CNN and the main point comes across
How Sollecito and Knox So Threaten One Another
The other day, a claim was posted that claimed sources had said Knox would soon accuse Sollecito.
This inspired quite an outcry, and the claim's heavy-handed suppression. Can you believe: by legal means? That claim really rattled a few cages.
Why was the claim so dangerous? Because for nearly seven years Sollecito and Knox have repeatedly cycled between occasional chummy hugs and numerous aggrieved potshots. And for the most part the more-aggrieved Sollecito has come out ahead.
- In 2007 (see below) Sollecito really dropped Knox in the drink and both fired off a lot of potshots.
- From 2008 right through 2011, desperate for confirmation of an alibi, an anxious Knox beamed pleas at a sullen Sollecito, for example in the form of love letters she wrote, and a public request to have a private chat.
- From 2012 upon provisional release it was Knox being sullen and hard to get and Sollecito in puppy-dog mode. He might have been driven by a genuine desire for a renewed relationship, but a bid to set himself up safely in the United States might have made Knox wonder if this was true love.
- And from mid 2013 public potshots have been fast and furious, many now on Twitter, and Italy in particular is closely watching the show and waits agog as the justice system applies more and more pressure.
Our main posts tracking this dont (for now) include the numerous veiled potshots in the RS and AK books, the reason being that we are waiting for the Florence and Bergamo prosecutors' new charges for what they identify as the defamatory claims in each book to be made public. As usual we are tracking them closely, rather than jumping the gun, to avoid confusion.
Some of the potshots were active-aggressive (as in: they actually complain about one another) and some are passive-aggressive (as in: they try to help themselves but conspicuously ignore the other.)
You can sample both flavors below.
1. The year 2007
Our emerging Interrogation Hoax series quotes multiple witnesses testifying how quickly and decisively Knox and Sollecito got off to a fast start in dropping the other in the drink. Too many posts of relevance to include all here, but see this.
From 6 November 2007 Knox and Sollecito were kept separated, and were not allowed to talk. (That continued to late 2011.) Sollecito was pretty easy to read: he had little interest in talk. A sulky silence was his norm.
1. On 6 November Sollecito's statement to Inspectors Moscatelli and Napoleoni included this about Knox :
I know Amanda for two weeks. From the evening I first met her she started sleeping at my house.
The first of November I woke up about 11.00, I had breakfast with Amanda, then she went out and I went back to bed. I then met up with her at her house around 13.00-14.00. In there was Meredith who left in a hurry about 16.00 without saying where she was going.
Amanda and I went to the [town] centre about 18.00 but I don't remember what we did. We remained in the centre till 20.30 or 21.00.
I went to my house alone at 21.00, while Amanda said that she was going to the pub Le Chic because she wanted to meet with her friends.
At this point we said goodbye. I went home, I made a joint. Had dinner, but I don't remember what I ate. About 23.00 my father called me on my house phone line.
I recall Amanda was not back yet.
I web surfed on the computer for two more hours after my father's phone call and I only stopped when Amanda came back in, presumably about 01.00…
In my previous statement I told a load of rubbish because Amanda had convinced me of her version of the facts and I didn't think about the inconsistencies.
2. Yikes. Knox finds her best alibi yanked. Not so long after, possibly knowing about this, Knox comes out with a statement which points at Sollecito in turn.
I don't know for sure if Raffaele was there that night [during the attack on Meredith] but I do remember very well waking up at my boyfriend's house, in his bed, and I went back to my house in the morning where I found the door open.
3. Then on 8 November 2007 Sollecito submitted a statement to Judge Matteini which began "I never want to see Amanda again. Above all, it is her fault we are here."
4. There were multiple further instances throughout the rest of 2007, quotes of which will be included soon in the Knox Interrogation Hoax series.
2. The Year 2008
1. Click here for Sollecito Turns On Knox? This Is Extraordinary…
In October toward the end of Guede's trial and RS's and AK's remand for trial Sollecito's DNA expert testifies to Judge Micheli that he found Knox's DNA on Meredith's bra and bra-clasp.
2. Click here for Sollecito Family Trial: On The Component About Their Alleged Attempt At Political Interference
Francesco Sollecito phone conversation in March 2008 with Vanessa captured by the Carabinieri in which he shows his extreme distrust and dislike of Knox who he blames for RS's plight.
3. The Year 2009
1. Click here for Trial: Defendant Noticeably Bubblier Than Meredith's Sad Friends
This kind of callous, flippant behavior by Knox had the entire court backed off, not least the Sollecito team which had no desire to be chained to this seeming dangerous nut.
2. Click here for Sollecito Not To Be Trumped By Knox Antics In The Female Wing Of Capanne
While RS and AK didnt have access to one another they sure had access to the media and in the Italian media a competitive Sollecito posted a steady stream of stories
3. Click here for Trial: Knox Claimed Not To Have Been At The House On The Night
Knox suddenly claims this, despite contrary 2007 claims by both Knox & Sollecito, which messes with Sollecito's alibi that he was at home alone on the computer.
4. Click here for Seems Sollecito Is Feeling Really Sorry - For Himself (So What's New?)
Sollecito tries to give himself an edge over AK by being extra-whiny about how awful he finds prison, and the distasteful little people he was being made to mix with.
4. The Year 2010
1. Click here for How Each of The Three Subtly But Surely Pushed The Other Two Closer to The Fire
The Knox team avoided this popular Porta a Porta TV series, maybe too scared of hard questions, while the Sollecito lawyers and family used it to promote suspicion of AK and Guede.
2. Click here for Newsweek Report From Italy On Damage Shrill Campaign Is Doing To Knox's Interests & America's Image
The shrill Knox campaign was irritating Italians and so hurting Sollecito's image and prospects and it was not shoring up his own story. Bongiorno especially disliked the campaign.
3. Click here for Rocco Girlanda's Strutting Manic Grinning Intrusion Seems A Major Danger To Sollecito/Knox Harmony
The strange kinky Member of Parliament (now voted out) paid numerous visits to Knox ("monitoring conditions") and tried some nasty (though ineffective) political tricks - but not for Sollecito.
4. Click here for The Knox Movie: Sollecito Reported Angry - Real Risk That His Defense Could Break Away From Knox's
The Sollecito camp had a strong belief that the Knox camp was behind this TV movie and so they fought it, though it turned out quite even-handed and the RS role was minor.
5. The Year 2011
1. Click here for Sollecito Defense Team Breaking From Knox Defense Team On Legal Measures To Stop Lifetime Movie
Further differences reported here between the two camps on the Lifetime movie which until it was aired was believed to favor Knox and build a case for her innocence.
2. Click here for Tenth Appeal Court Session: Might Today's Testimony Give Sollecito More Of An Advantage Than Knox?
After his team's (attempted) discounting of the main evidence at Meredith's house against Sollecito, Knox's position looks way worse, as she has motives both for killing and cover-up.
6. The Year 2012
1. Click here for In Desperation A Council Of War? All Of The Sollecito Family Suddenly Hop On Flights To Seattle
Sollecito is the one now in puppy-dog mode, though his father has said publicly that the relationship with Knox is at an end; here the RS family sets out for Seattle to try to make it so.
2. Click here for Sollecito's Book Honor Bound Hits Italy And Already Scathing Reactions And Legal Trouble
Sollecito's book, which subtly promotes Knox's guilt, runs into legal trouble for false claims, which could also impact Knox's claims and legal future. His seeming sticking with Knox damages Bongiorno's defense strategy.
3. Click here for Will Sollecito Drop Amanda Knox In It Further In A Public Seattle Interview At 7:00 PM Tonight?
Sollecito's American book promotion tour often went badly and he seemed unaware of what was in his own book; though once again he was making out Knox was guiltier. His defense team despise the book.
7. The Year 2013
1. Click here for Knox & Sollecito Meet - To Attempt To Bury The Hatchet Other Than In Each Other?
The second public Sollecito attempt to end up with Knox, who already had chips on her shoulders about him but went through this charade. Soon, they were back to whacking one another.
2. Click here for Seeds Of Betrayal: Sollecito Twice More Implies Evidence Against Knox Much Stronger Than Against Him
Sollecito sustains this steady drum-beat of putting Knox down, highlighting the evidence against her, repeatedly saying he stuck with her despite no evidence against him (no deal helping RS was ever offered).
3. Click here for Seeds Of Betrayal: In Interview Knox Reveals To Italy Her Considerable Irritation With Sollecito
Knox does an extended interview with Oggi (for which she and Oggi are being charged) lying about officials and the evidence, but also uttering her angriest blast yet against Sollecito.
8. The Year 2014
1. Click here for Rejected Yet Again By Knox, Sollecito Seems Frantic To Avoid What Might Be A Final Return To Italy
Sollecito (like Sforza) was desperately looking for someone to marry him, to keep him in the US. Kelsey Kay was briefly interested, but he dumped her; he had told her Knox had recently turned him down.
2. Click here for As Knox & Sollecito Try To Separate Themselves, Each Is Digging The Other In Deeper
Sollecito is clearly trying to distance himself from Knox now, claiming that there is far more evidence against her than against him. Knox's irritation with him is growing.
3. Click here for What We Might Read Into Sollecito Lawyer Giulia Bongiornos Final Arguments To The Appeal Judges
Bongiorno shows contempt for Knox; she effectively conveys the sense of the RS family that a crazed Knox dragged RS into this. She see the RS book as a pro-Knox con job by her team.
4. Click here for Spitting In the Wind: Sollecito News Conference Backfires On Him AND Knox - What The Media Missed
Really irritated at the US-written RS book, Bongiorno goes a long way to separating the two perps in the minds of Italians; however RS hedges a little though, after having said the evidence points only to Knox.
Knox As Present Big Loser; Where Next For Her?
These are not all of our posts which include talk of this pushing and pulling, and it happened so frequently that often we simply passed on posting for fear of monotony.
The war by other means continues on Twitter and briefly it hit the crazy-for-Knox Ground Report website. Much damage to Knox is already done, and Italians adamantly want her in prison.
Even in the US the media have cooled on Knox, and as her dwindling supporters become wilder and wilder they too do harm to her paid-for nice-girl image.
A brighter family and paid team would now be saying "It is time for a Plan B and doing something to warm up Italy".
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Raff Sollecito, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Sollecito's alibis, Crime hypotheses, On psychology, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, The Sollecitos
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (37)
Tuesday, July 15, 2014
Crazed Overkill Of Knox PR Causes Not Only A Sollecito-Camp Reaction But Hurt To Knox Herself
Posted by Peter QuennellClick here to go straight to Comments
Seattle, generally such a huge plus in the world, embarrased by the river of slime
Act 1. Hubris Of The Knox Public Relations Described
A long report on Marriott's PR appeared late in 2011 after Knox was provisionally released.
David Marriott never visited Amanda Knox during her four years in an Italian prison. He met her this month, when she stepped off a plane in Seattle.
Yet for Knox and her family, Marriott was as important a player in her ordeal as anyone in the courtroom. As Knox's publicist, beginning three days after her arrest, Marriott worked to convince the international public that she did not murder her British roommate while studying in Perugia.
"Hiring him was one of the smartest things we ever did," said Curt Knox, Amanda's father.
The article goes on to describe how family and friends were pushed into the limelight and specific big TV networks targeted. It talks about great financial opportunities for Knox.
Marriott himself demonstrates no understanding of the case - in fact. he sounds proud of his ignorance and his reflexively anti-Italy stance. To a smarter Curt Knox those might have been red flags.
Act 2: Brutal Overkill Of A Flailing Campaign Described
In October 2013 our main poster Media Watcher laid the blame for the slow-moving Knox media cooling at David Marriott's door.
Now The Examiner is only one of many preparing to take another retaliatory whack.
Public relations is perfectly understandable for celebrities, politicians, or executives, but murder suspects too? At first this aggressive proliferation of pro-Knox articles, tweets and commentary were justified as a defense against the European media's negative portrayal of her. However, as time wore on, the overpowering presence of Knox's media campaign has reached outlandish proportions.
Nowadays no blogger is safe to write a factual article about the Meredith Kercher Murder Case without contemptuous comments filling up their Disqus community. Patient webmasters at CNN.com must brace themselves for the onslaught of tens of thousands of interjections cluttering up each and every news article concerning the Meredith Kercher cum Amanda Knox murder case. Mob mentality seems to have taken over Knox's PR initiative. Knox's advocates have gone so far as to aim their crosshairs on the victim's family.
The article, very well researched so far as it goes (it omits the third act below) goes on to describe how Sollecito's camp has had to open a PR front to unchain Sollecito from Knox.
Act 3: How Knox Herself Is Losing Big Described
Know your enemy. Dont go about attacking the king unless you can kill him dead. Italy's Niccolò Machiavelli (1469-1527) wrote about it in The Prince:
If one is striking out at an opponent, one should make sure that the fatal blow is struck, successfully ending the confrontation. Machiavelli wrote that "the injury that is to be done to a man ought to be of such a kind that one does not stand in fear of revenge."
Wise words for Marriott and Curt Knox. They have remained steadfastly ignorant of the enemy. The attack has clearly failed. Wall-to-wall Italy now has the upper hand. And the PR is a millstone around Knox's neck.
Here are seven of the ways the Knox-Marriott campaign has fallen short and has actually done real harm.
- 1) The real case for conviction remains rock-solid with many times the number of evidence points that a US or UK court would require for guilt.
2) No paper trail helpful to Knox exists between the American Embassy and the State Department, and the extradition agreement is precise and firm.
3) Knox's bedrock claim, that she was pressured into a false accusation, not only cost her three years for calunnia but will cost her a defamation trial.
4) The defamatory Knox book that was the windfall David Marriott so jubilantly talks about is turning into an albatross around Knox's neck.
5) The bloodmoney windfall will not remain Knox's to keep, under Italian and American laws, and even Marriott's fees could be at risk.
6) The PR is being unresponsive to ANY damaging claims, such as Knox's attempted framing of Mignini, and its output is increasingly surreal junk.
7) The PR is making the Sollecito camp hostile, Italian media too; at the same time, since the failed appeal, the US media have chilled.
And so we see the slow death of a campaign built on xenophobia, racism, personal abuse, zero understanding of the details of the case, and zero understanding of the real Italy and its law.
Italy is actually rather a sucker for confession and penitence. Against a famously impervious justice system, the hard line was a terrible, terrible mistake.
Coming soon? "Firing him was one of the smartest things we ever did" says Curt Knox.
Below: From the Examiner, David Marriott and Seattle TV reporter Linda Byron
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Raff Sollecito, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Sollecito's alibis, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, The Sollecitos, The wider contexts, Italian context
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (19)
Friday, July 11, 2014
The Knox Interrogation Hoax #9: Officer Moscatelli's Recap/Summary Session With Sollecito 5-6 Nov
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
[Sollecito at trial on the day when Inspector Moscatelli testified]
1. What Really Happened on 5-6 November
The intros to Posts #1 to #8 explain what really happened at Knox's recap/summary session on 5-6 November 2007.
In a sentence: Knox was there unwanted and grumpy, was advised to go and sleep, refused, agreed to build a list of possible perps (she listed seven, including Rudy Guede), spontaneously broke into a wailing conniption over a message she sent to Patrick, was semi-calmed-down and repeatedly provided with refreshments, and insisted on writing three statements without a lawyer, all of which said she went out on the night of the attack, all framing Patrick, one even pointing at Sollecito.
Posts #1 to #8 included all the testimony from three police staff (Ficcara, Zugarini, Donnino) who sat with Knox, and then some of the testimony from Napoleoni (who was mainly with Sollecito) and Giobbi (an officer from Rome who was elsewhere in the questura and overheard Knox's conniption).
Inspector Daniele Moscatelli was also from the national police in Rome. He had previously questioned the boys who lived downstairs, and on 5-6 November he led the discussion with Sollecito, who was in a room some distance from Knox. On this night, the subject was to be some discrepancies in Sollecito's phone records. Expectations were low, and many others were still being similarly questioned.
There was some limited interaction with Rita Ficcara's recap/summary session with Amanda Knox, so the claims made here and their timing will become very important.
This will already be a long post, and the last for now on testimony from the police. So we'll highlight all the devils in the details of all this police testimony in our next post. This translation is by Catnip and is also posted on the excellent wiki.
Click here for the rest
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, The twelve hoaxes, Knox interrog. hoax
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (40)
Thursday, July 10, 2014
Are The Rank-Amateurs With Their Hooks In Knox Dividing Into Two Flocks Of Sheep?
Posted by Peter QuennellClick here to go straight to Comments
Confusion Increasingly On Display
Publicly berating the Sollecitos, Kerchers, Italy and Europe has had a detrimental effect on Knox's public persona?
So says Sophie in the forum text above. Smart take. But Clive Wismayer himself has posted some pretty wild accusations against Italian officials which absolutely dont help Knox at all. People like him should go.
Click here for more of those postings by those supposedly helping Knox. (Guede did it alone? Really?) The postings are a month old, but we hear the internal disputes are now way worse. Three obvious problems stand out.
1. The Sollecito Headache
They dont know as a group whether to try to hug Raffaele Sollecito and his family closer, or to nuke them, in the FOA's usual mode. Some now incline one way, some the other, and it is splitting them apart.
The Sollecito backlash almost certainly isnt done yet. They dont like Knox at all, and further talk of resisting extradition and further demonizing of Italy and justice officials hardly helps them, and will see them back in front of the press.
In no circumstances will Bongiorno ever again let Sollecito get attracted back to the people who have their hooks in Knox - Bongiorno took the harder line at the press conference, and burying the very damaging claims stuffed by the Knox people into Sollecito's book is sure on her radar now.
2. The Bloodmoney Headache
There's rarely much money to be made legally out of trashing murder victims and their families and justice officials as the Bruce Fischers have set out to do. Amanda Knox did get a windfall payment out of her hapless book - but is THAT turning into a two-edged sword…
There's nothing like a huge pot of money unfairly distributed to make people who feel used and unrewarded walk off. So says Clive Wismayer in the text. Knox is clearly acting cheap, maybe because she sees no career ahead, and may have squirreled much of her bloodmoney away for the reasons given here.
Some like Ted Simon seem to have had a very big payday, the lawyers and experts and Marriott and travel and hotels have all had to be paid-for. Media sources tell us that none of their reporters get within miles of Sollecito or Knox without a greedy hand coming out.
And Knox still has to pay the damages awarded to Patrick for maliciously wrecking his life, or risk more time inside.
Knox is to be charged for the false claims in her book on the same lines as Sollecito and the damages awarded could be huge. Knox's publishers have their own liability, but may have been misled, and if they are made to pay damages, they could set their lawyers on Knox.
3. The False-Labels Headache
That "guilters" smear used freely in the text above is an albatross around their necks. It stops them seeing straight and being fully informed and (especially) trying to convince in reasonable terms.
Competent American lawyers and PR would have stopped Knox supporters painting themselves into such a corner long ago on the grounds that it just doesnt work. They dont know their enemy as a result.
What they are really up against is not only people posting translations and analyses on websites (people much more qualified than themselves) but also all the forces of justice in Italy and 90 percent of the population who clearly can see guilt.
The pro-Knox conspiracists are in fact a very small faction. The in-group at the core is a dozen or two at most. Perhaps a few hundred now who might lift a finger for Knox.
In contrast, those who see a case for guilt - and who revere the victim and Italy and its officials and system - are not a mere faction at all. Between them, they are huge. Good smart reasonable people who are very well informed and are certainly not driven by hate.
A lot of what websites like this do, in a media-created vacuum of hard facts, is to simply pass on reliable information from Italy in competent translations of key documents and timely and comprehensive reports.
This "guilters" smear has blinded them to that, and so "garbage-in-garbage-out" and paranoid suspicions and ranting language have become their plagues.
And with no real help, Knox faces 28-plus years.
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, Knox's book, The twelve hoaxes, Other legal cases, Associated trials
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (26)
Wednesday, July 02, 2014
A Mistake Or Lie By Bongiorno On The Location Where Knox Texted Doesnt Let RS Off The Hook
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
1. Bongiorno's Claim About Knox's Location
Giulia Bongiorno claimed yesterday that Amanda Knox texted Patrick while she was away from Sollecito's house.
Mobile-phone-tower records show that Knox's phone received Patrick's incoming text telling her not to come to work when she was already somewhere on the route to his bar in Via Alessi.
Knox apparently then turned around and went back to Sollecito's house, because mobile-phone-tower records show Knox texted back, responding to Patrick, from Sollecito's house in Corso Garibaldi at 8:35.
They both claim this in their books - Sollecito himself claims it too. Those books are pretty suspect throughout, but for once they both tell the same truth.
Some five minutes later, Knox and Ms Popovic met at Sollecito's house so Knox was still there then. That is still three to four hours away from the best estimate of Meredith's death.
So the time-period prior to 8:35 pm when Knox texted from Sollecito's flat was the only time-period when there is hard proof that Knox and Sollecito were ever apart that night. In her unforced statements on 5-6 November Knox did claim she went out alone to see Patrick, but we have only her word she was alone.
It seems Bongiorno made a serious mistake or lied - and Sollecito sat beside her happily nodding his okay.
2. The Narrative From Judge Massei's Report
− 20:18:12: Amanda receives the SMS sent to her by Patrick Lumumba, which let her off from having to go to work at the 'Le Chic' pub on the evening of 1 November. At the time of reception the phone connected to the cell on Via dell'Aquila 5-Torre dell'Acquedotto sector 3, whose signal does not reach Raffaele Sollecito's house. The young woman was therefore far [i.e. absent] from Corso Garibaldi 30 when the SMS reached her, as she was walking in an area which was shown to be served by the Via dell'Aquila 5-Torre dell'Acquedotto sector 3 cell. This point of her route could correspond to Via U. Rocchi, to Piazza Cavallotti, to Piazza IV Novembre, bearing in mind that Lumumba's pub is located in Via Alessi, and that Amanda Knox would have had to travel along the above-mentioned roads and the piazza in order to reach the pub
− 20.35.48 Amanda sent an SMS in reply to Patrick, at No. 338-7195723; the message was sent when the young woman's mobile phone was in Corso Garibaldi 30 or in the immediate neighbourhood. The cell used, in fact, was that of Via Berardi sector 7.
3. The Narrative From Judge Nencini's Report
At 20.18 and 12 seconds, Amanda Marie Knox received a text message sent to her by Patrick Lumumba, in which he informed her that it would not be necessary for her to go to the bar to carry out her usual work. At the time of receipt, Amanda Marie Knox's handset connected via the sector 3 mast at Torre dell'Acquedotto, 5 dell'Aquila, as shown by phone records entered in evidence. This mast cannot be reached from the vicinity of 130 Via Garibaldi, the home of Raffaele Sollecito. According to the findings of the judicial police entered in evidence, this mast could be reached by anyone in Via Rocchi, piazza Cavallotti or piazza 4 Novembre, all locations in Perugia which are intermediate between 130 Via Garibaldi, the home of Raffaele Sollecito, and Via Alessi, where the "Le Chic" bar is located.
From this set of facts established in the case, Amanda Marie Knox's claim, according to which she received Patrick Lumumba's text message while she was at 130 Via Garibaldi, appears false. Given the mast connected to and the time, it is reasonable to assume that, when Amanda received the message, she had already left Raffaele Sollecito's home and was on her way to the "Le Chic" bar. Presumably, she then turned around and went back.
Here, then, is the first crack in the account of the young woman who, in her narrative, claims never to have left the house at 130 Via Garibaldi from the moment of her entrance into the house in the afternoon of 1 November 2007, together with Raffaele Sollecito. There is oral evidence (the deposition of Popovic) and evidence obtained through phone records that, at around 18:00 on 1 November 2007, Amanda and Raffaele were at the home of the latter. Later, at precisely 20:35 and 48 seconds, when Amanda Marie Knox sent a text message to Patrick Lumumba, connecting to a mast serving 130 Via Garibaldi, both were once again [118]together at Raffaele Sollecito's home. This fact is confirmed by Popovic, who went there to cancel that evening's appointment with Raffaele. In fact, the witness reported that she had visited Raffaele's home at around 20:40 in the evening.
In essence, it can be established with certainty that Amanda and Raffaele were apart, albeit for a limited period of time, on the evening of 1 November 2007, contrary to what is stated repeatedly in multiple statements made by Amanda Marie Knox.
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Raff Sollecito, The defenses, Appeals 2009-2014, Cassation appeal 1, Diversion efforts by, The Sollecitos, The wider contexts, Italian context
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (29)
Amanda Knox Left Sollecito's House By Herself? Both Claimed It But Neither Of Their Books Back It Up
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
1. Current Contexts Of Sollecito's And Knox's Books
Neither book is exactly riddled with truths.
The claims throughout Sollecito's book are soon to be the subject of a trial in Florence and the claims throughout Knox's book are soon to be the subject of a trial in Bergamo. So both will need to endorse or reject what they wrote.
Plus Knox will need to endorse or reject this, from the first unforced statement she insisted on making without a lawyer on 6 November 2007. This is what Sollecito is gleefully using against her now.
Last Thursday, November 1, a day on which I normally work, while I was at the house of my boyfriend Raffaele, at around 8:30 pm, I received a message on my cellular phone from Patrik, who told me that the premises would remain closed that evening, because there were no customers, and thus I would not need to go to work.
I responded to the message by telling him that we would see each other at once; I then left the house, telling my boyfriend that I had to go to work. In view of the fact that during the afternoon I had smoked a joint, I felt confused, since I do not frequently make use of mind-altering substances, nor of heavier substances.
I met Patrik immediately afterward, at the basketball court on Piazza Grimana, and together we went [to my] home.
2. From Sollecito's Honor Bound (Simon & Schuster 2012)
Amanda and I smoked a joint before leaving the house on Via della Pergola, wandered into town for some shopping before remembering we had enough for dinner already, and headed back to my place. Shortly before six, a Serbian friend of mine named Jovana Popovic rang the doorbell and asked if I'd mind driving her to the bus station at midnight to pick up a suitcase her mother was sending. I said that would be fine. When she left, Amanda and I sat down at the computer to watch a favorite movie, Amélie.
We had to stop the film a few times as the evening wore on. First, Amanda got a text from Patrick telling her it was a slow night because of the holiday and he didn't need her to come in after all. It was like getting an unexpected snow day—we were thrilled. Amanda texted back: Certo ci vediamo più tardi buona serata! Sure. See you later. Have a good evening.
Then my father called. He and Mara had just seen the Will Smith movie The Pursuit of Happyness, and he told me how beautifully it portrayed the relationship between a father and his son. My father was always making phone calls like this. It was sweet that he wanted to share his experiences, but he also made everything he said sound vaguely like an order, as if laying out the parameters of how I should react to things before I'd had a chance to form my own opinion. But he never stayed on the line for long—he is too nervy and impatient—so I listened calmly and the call was over in less than four minutes.
In the meantime, Jovana dropped by again and told Amanda that I didn't need to drive her to the bus station after all. Now we didn't have to leave the apartment. The evening was ours, and we couldn't have been happier. We switched off our cell phones, finished watching Amélie, and discussed what to make for dinner…
When Amélie ended, I went into the kitchen to take care of some dishes left over from breakfast before we started making dinner. I soon realized that water was leaking out of the pipe under the sink, and I cursed under my breath. I'd had a plumber come and fix the sink just a week earlier, and he had made me buy all sorts of replacement parts that clearly were not put together properly. I suspected he had left them loose on purpose to force me to pay for another visit. As Amanda and I threw kitchen towels onto the puddle on the tile floor, I decided I was going to let my landlady deal with it from now on.
"Don't you have a mop?" Amanda asked. I did not. She offered to pick one up from Via della Pergola the next morning and bring it round.
We cooked a fish dinner, did our best to wash the dishes again, and tumbled gratefully into bed in each other's arms. Only later, when I lay in the dark, unable to sleep, did it dawn on me that Papà had broken his usual habit of calling to wish me good night.
It turned out he did so out of consideration. He had been about to pick up the phone when my stepmother talked him out of it. "Stop bothering him," Mara said, as they got ready for bed around eleven o'clock. "He's with Amanda, and they want to be alone. Why don't you send a text instead?"
My father took her advice, but because my cell phone was turned off, I didn't receive the message until six the next morning.
It was a desperately unlucky combination of circumstances. If my father had tried my cell and then called me on the home line—which he would have done, because he's persistent that way—I would have had incontrovertible proof from the phone records that I was home that night. And the nightmare that was about to engulf me might never have begun.
My father called my landline a little before nine thirty the next morning to make sure we would be ready for our day trip to Gubbio. I was too groggy to talk. I'd been up several times in the night—listening to music, answering e-mail, making love—and wanted only to go back to sleep. Amanda got out of bed and said she was going home to shower and change her clothes, so I walked her to the front door, gave her a kiss, and crawled back under the covers.
3. From Knox's Waiting To Be Heard (HarperCollins 2013)
Raffaele and I were good at being low-key together. We chilled out in the common room and smoked a joint while I played Beatles songs on the guitar for an hour or so. Sometime between 4 P.M. and 5 P.M., we left to go to his place. We wanted a quiet, cozy night in. As we walked along, I was telling Raffaele that Amélie was my all-time favorite movie.
"Really?" he asked. "I've never seen it."
"Oh my God," I said, unbelieving. "You have to see it right this second! You'll love it!"
Not long after we got back to Raffaele's, his doorbell rang. It was a friend of his whom I'd never met—a pretty, put-together medical student named Jovanna Popovic, who spoke Italian so quickly I couldn't understand her. She'd come to ask Raffaele for a favor. Her mother was putting a suitcase on a bus for her and she wondered if he could drive her to the station at midnight to pick it up.
"Sure," Raffaele said.
As soon as she left, we downloaded the movie on his computer and sat on his bed to watch it. Around 8:30 P.M. I suddenly remembered that it was Thursday, one of my regular workdays. Quickly checking my phone, I saw that Patrick had sent me a text telling me I didn't have to come in. Since it was a holiday, he thought it would be a slow night.
"Okay," I texted back. "Ci vediamo più tardi buona serata!"—"See you later. Have a good evening!" Then I turned off my phone, just in case he changed his mind and wanted me to come in after all. I was so excited to have the night off that I jumped on top of Raffaele, cheering, "Woo-hoo! Woo-hoo!"
Our good mood was only elevated when the doorbell rang again at 8:45 P.M: Jovanna had come back, this time to say that the suitcase hadn't made the bus and that she didn't need a ride after all. With no more obligations, we had the whole rest of the night just to be with each other and chill out.
After the movie ended, around 9:15 P.M., we sautéed a piece of fish and made a simple salad. We were washing the dishes when we realized that the kitchen sink was leaking. Raffaele, who'd already had a plumber come once, was frustrated and frantically tried to mop up a lot of water with a little rag. He ended up leaving a puddle.
"I'll bring the mop over from our house tomorrow. No big deal," I said.
Raffaele sat down at his desk and rolled a joint, and I climbed into his lap to read aloud to him from another Harry Potter book, this one in German. I translated the parts he didn't understand, as best I could, into Italian or English while we smoked and giggled.
Later, when we were in bed, our conversation wound its way to his mother. His dad had divorced her years before, but she'd never gotten over the break. In 2005 she had died suddenly. "Some ¬people suspect she killed herself, but I'm positive she didn't," Raffaele said. "She would never do that. She had a bad heart, and it just gave out. It was horrible for me—¬we were really close—¬and I miss her all the time."
I felt terrible for him, but it was hard for me to relate. The only person I knew who had died was my grandfather, when I was sixteen. I felt sad when my mom told me, but my grandfather had been old and sick, and we had expected his death for a few weeks.
I'm sure Mom and Oma must have cried, but my strongest memory is sitting around the dining room table telling funny stories about Opa. My grandmother's message—that grieving was something you did in private; that you didn't make public displays and you kept on moving forward—had remained with me.
Hearing the pain in Raffaele's voice, I hurt for him. Nestling my head on his chest, I tried to be comforting.
As we started kissing, Raffaele gave me a hickey on my neck. We undressed the rest of the way, had sex, and fell asleep.
We'd known each other for exactly one week and had settled so quickly into an easy routine that one night seemed to melt happily and indistinguishably into the one that came after.
We planned to break our routine the next day, All Souls' Day, by taking a long drive into the countryside, to the neighboring town of Gubbio. The November 2 holiday wasn't usually observed with as much fanfare as All Saints' Day, but since it fell on a Friday in 2007, a lot of people, including us, were turning it into a four-day weekend. I thought, Italians having a good time again. And I couldn't wait.
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Raff Sollecito, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Sollecito's alibis, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, Knox's book, The Sollecitos, Sollecito's book, The twelve hoaxes
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (8)
Tuesday, July 01, 2014
Twice Today Amanda Knox's Long-Running Interrogation Hoax Turns On Her To Bite Her In The Tail
Posted by Peter QuennellClick here to go straight to Comments
1. Today's Sollecito Claims
Take a look at this Knox statement and this Knox statement and this Knox statement.
If you think Knox was in a planned police interrogation, and her framing of Patrick was forced, over some hours, by tag-teams of cops, with no food, no drinks, no interpreter, and no lawyer, then the cops look bad and Knox is maybe home free.
But in fact voluminous testimony at trial by a whole host of those present in Perugia's central police station on the night of 5-6 November 2007 confirm that absolutely none of that is true.
In fact Knox rolled over on Patrick in a heartbeat, and it happened during a quiet session of name-listing of possible perps, a task in which Knox was pretty eager - perhaps so eager because none of them were herself and one of them was Rudy Guede.
Knox had turned up late at the police station, unwanted and grumpy, was advised to go and sleep, refused, agreed to build that list of possible perps (she listed seven), spontaneously broke into a wailing conniption over a message she sent to Patrick, was semi-calmed-down and repeatedly provided refreshments, and insisted on writing three statements without a lawyer all of which said she went out on the night of the attack, all framing Patrick, one even pointing at Sollecito.
Knox's erratic claims of pressure were of course disbelieved by the Massei trial court, she was convicted of calunnia, her appeals failed both at the Hellmann appeal court and the Supreme Court, and she served three years in Capanne Prison. Knox still owes Patrick a major payment and she herself continues to propagate the interrogation hoax repeatedly - in her book, on TV, in her email to Judge Nencini, and in her appeal to the European Court of Human Rights.
Sollico is now taking advantage of those three statements, and a claim that Knox's text message to Patrick was sent from outside Sollecito's apartment, to hint that Knox told the truth there, and he was not with her at the time when Meredith was killed.
2. Why This Might Resonate In Italy
This might lead to some review of "new evidence" though it cannot happen before Cassation confirms conviction.
Not so much because of the hard facts, which belie him, but because of the growing recognition of the enormous damage done to Italy's reputation by Curt Knox, Chris Mellas, and the paid thugs of their campaign.
And the threats to fight extradition, and the appallingly large sums of blood-money.
3. The Curt & Edda Defamation Trial
In a double whammy, a judge ruled in Perugia that Curt Knox and Edda Mellas must go on trial in the hard-line Florence court for their role in propagating that same interrogation hoax.
That is the same court that is already staging felony trials against Frank Sforza and Luciano Aviello and will soon stage defamation trials for the ironically titled Honor Bound against Raffaele Sollecito and Andrew Gumbel.
This is from Andrea Vogt's latest website report (Update June 30, 2014) which as usual leaves in the dust all other non-Italian reporting except Barbie Nadeau's and John Follain's (though that is sadly behind the UK Times pay-wall).
Amanda Knox's biological parents, Curt Knox and Edda Mellas, faced a trial hearing in Perugia Monday on charges of defaming the local police with allegations in the international media (and reported in Italy) that their daughter was abused during questioning during the 2007 investigation into the murder of Meredith Kercher.
The case Monday came before Perugia Judge Noviello, who opted not to hear witness testimony, but instead moved the case to Florence. This because the judge reportedly noted that the Perugia prosecutor was also defamed, even though he did not make any official complaints, therefore it is a case that should be handled outside the sphere of Umbrian influence.
Amanda Knox was convicted on appeal in January in Florence, but still faces another trial there – that of allegedly slandering the police (calumny) with false accusations on the stand, which in Italy is a more serious charge than just defamation\libel. Knox and her parents now both face decisions by Florentine courts about the outstanding charges
The claims being targeted for trial were made in 2010 so the Florence court has another three-plus years before the statute of limitations cuts in.
And this (tick tick) is from a TJMK post by Jools in January 2012.
The name of Amanda Knox was included in the list of trial witnesses that the defence for Kurt Knox and Edda Mellas, lawyers Dalla Vedova and Luciano Ghirga intend to call to testify in court.
So Amanda Knox could want to testify under oath on the interrogation hoax - either that or see her parents go down. (Knox will probably also face trial in Bergamo for extensive defamation in her book. Amanda Knox could again want to testify under oath on the interrogation hoax - either that or see herself go down.)
We understand it was Knox lawyer Dalla Vedova who first asked for the Knox-Mellas trial to be moved to Florence. That was when Dr Mignini was the subject of a phony prosecution in Florence and Dalla Vedova seemed intent on embarrassing him.
Now Dr Mignini is riding high nationally, and is maybe having a few grins at Dalla Vedova's predicament.
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Police and CSI, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, Knox's book, The twelve hoaxes
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (6)
Monday, June 30, 2014
Apart From Cassation's Unyielding Mandate, More Problems With The Belated Sollecito/Bongiorno U-Turn
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
1. The Appeal's Grounds For Separation
That bizarre infatuation of Bongiorno's with Knox as Jessica Rabbit is clearly long-gone.
Now the poor boy was home alone and the absent Miss Rabbit had reason and opportunity. Tiziano posted these ten translated points from the new Sollecito appeal to Cassation, which seems to have the highly nervous Knox camp's tongues tied.
Among the numerous flaws the proceedings appealed against present, the one linked to the claimed impossibility of differentiating between the two accused stands out.
On this point the Appeal Court denied any in-depth analysis at all of the individual roles - an investigation urged by the defence - avoiding taking any position about alternative constructive hypotheses.
10 points are enumerated by the defence in this regard:
- AK's memorial referring to events at via della Pergola was in the singular
- AK reported receiving SMS not to go to work from Lumumba, but went out just the same
- AK admitted having lied to RS
- RS did not calumny anyone: the accusation against PL was never confirmed by RS
- AK in her memorial positioned only herself at the crime scene at the time of the scream
- only AK's blood was on the knife blade
- no mixed traces RS/MK were found and highlighted by luminol in the house
- Quintavalle claimed to have seen AK the morning of November 2nd, not RS
- RS did not know RG and had no reason for wanting MK's death
- the alleged bad relations and the question of disappearance of money regarded only MK and AK
2, Popper Explains Why They Will Go Nowhere
Popper the highly informed Italian commenter on TJMK and PMF has explained on a previous post why this will fall on deaf ears in Cassation.
if RS said something he has not said before it would make no difference now. No more evidence can be admitted at the trial.
Fase istruttoria is over as judgement of merit. Cassazione can only respond on points appealed and they must be points of law otherwise they are not admissible. Defendants do not talk in hearing.
Once they are convicted, for example, if he had new information on the case and new evidence that proved (in a convincing way) he is not guilty, he could ask for revisione, basically a review of the trial.
He clearly has nothing to say though ... if he said she went out, judges knew that already. If he said that night he was in Milan and could prove it conclusively, that could trigger a review of a final sentence.
We are clearly talking in theory, no such thing will happen.
3. Could The 10 Points Have Worked Previously?
If Judge Nencini was still in the saddle could the ten points have had merit?
Our continuing Interrogation Hoax series has been hammering on the fact that on 5-6 November 2007 quite unpressured Knox herself did state that she went out alone without Sollecito on the night Meredith was murdered.
But these ten cherrypicked points above and a claim that RS was not even at Meredith's house that night are self-destroying over-reach. They would not have caused a win or partial win for Sollecito. Not one of them stands up as a get-out-of-jail-free card upon close readings of the reports of Judge Massei and Judge Nencini.
The lower courts did NOT deny analysis of the individual roles - the two themselves opted to be tried together, while Rudy Guede, fearing two snakes, chose to be tried separately.
WHEN did the defense urge investigation of their differing roles? What did the Massei trial court miss? It had many months of the sight of Sollecito - sitting there sulky, saying little, not taking the stand. Yes, not assisting Jessica Rabbit with an alibi, but that was not so obvious.
The wounds on Meredith and the evidence points in Meredith's room point overwhelmingly to three attackers. They prove the use of two knives from opposite sides. It was Sollecito's knife that was used for the fatal blow; that remains unshaken - actually, more confirmed by the Carabinieri.
See Ergon on the implacable knife evidence. Sollecito was the knife fetishist, and the one who was already into the cocaine or crystal meth that Knox was probably on judging by her telling smell the next day, her bizarre behaviors through the week following, and her odd money trail.
See the implacable evidence against him on the bathmat by SomeAlibi and Yummi. That footprint had to have been imprinted within a few minutes of the end of the attack on Meredith.
After the hijacked Hellmann appeal in 2011 Sollecito was deeply craven to Knox and her family and entourage on the US west coast. Craven to the extent that his own family (which despises the Knox-Mellases and blames Knox for his predicament and their lost name and enormous expenses) once hurriedly hopped on an aircraft to Seattle to enforce their separation.
Sollecito's hapless book-agent Sharlene Martin and shadow-writer Andrew Gumbel both live on the West Coast and Knox's radioactive FOA obviously provided most of the malicious fantasy that constitutes his defamatory book.
Playing chicken with the Italian justice system is notoriously suicidal. The crazy aggression of the Prestons, Fischers and Moores did not help Sollecito at all at the Nencini appeal (though it helped Knox even less - she got handed the longer sentence.)
The gods-in-their-own-minds in the FOA got Sollecito no US job and no US viza. The email to Judge Nencini and the appeal to ECHR and the promised fight against extradition for Knox are to him merely insults, and attempts to separate Knox off.
So, back in Italy, he is confused, let-down, disgruntled, and loaded for bear. Knox was the loose canon in 2007, Sollecito is the loose canon now.
Here is a key exchange between our main posters SeekingUnderstanding and Hopeful from previous threads.
4. Take On RS Now By SeekingUnderstanding
[t does seem so very sad and frustrating that Raphaele did not open the window of opportunity, as Judge Nencini tried to nudge him to do, just before Christmas.
He is less easy to read than Ms. Knox , for a number of reasons - more introverted, less articulate (certainly in English; but he also doesn't seem expressive in his own language), and because of the psychology itself.
You may remember I suggested AK finds it unbearable to acknowledge her darker side, to own her projections; unbearable to be thought of as 'a monster', to be unlovable, or indeed hated by people. This may be a strong component in her lying.
I believe Raphaele also finds things unbearable, but whereas Amanda appears to turn this unbearable feeling into lashing out to others, - I think in Raphaele, he finds himself and 'what has happened to him' (passive aggression) unbearable. His judgement has not only been poor, but catastrophically poor, - and he must know this. One wonders why the self-destruct.
He knows his life is ruined, and he knows his appalling judgement was instrumental. He truly doesn't have confidence in himself, but bluffs anyway. His 'ex', by contrast,has too much. If only she could have self-doubt, and feel shame.
He is not unintelligent, by no means, yet his choices and decisions at times have seemed near idiotically stupid. So there must be something else going on, something deep in his psyche that causes such confusion in his mental and emotional universe.
He seems unable to organize his emotions. He appears to want or expect or need a woman to 'sort them out' (sort him out). His relationship with his mother would probably reveal the source of this. How did she manage her emotions? Or did they rule her? . These are the sort of questions I might be asking. He seems overwhelmed, swallowed up by the juggernaut that AK set in motion.
Was his mother easily overwhelmed by life's problems? Something has gone wrong (drastically) with a healthy model for his 'anima'.
Where Amanda is the arch manipulator, he is highly manipulable. He seems to copy. Like her, his self-identity is weak, but for different reasons. Drug use, I would suggest, has been both crucial and disastrous for his mind. From this point of view, prison will be a constructive environment for him, (as AK too). Perhaps without the distorting and illusory aspects of drugs he might begin, over many years, to experience true spiritual (and therefore moral) issues.
I always think drugs give a delusion of spiritual experience ('the highs'), - wanting them can be (for an introvert) indicative of longing for something more spiritual, but using them will actually prevent such an experience, emphatically.
So then there is bitterness and emptiness, as well as despair and, still, confusion. Thus the addiction which starts as a cycle in the mind.
I knew a psychologist who worked with highly motivated and successful people in the Arts - people who would have burn out, creativity, and performance issues. He was extremely clever. But he was adamant that there had to be a hierarchy for dealing with problems.
That is to say, if someone was using drugs and/or alcohol to the point of misuse (extremely common in the performing arts), - this problem had to be mastered and dealt with FIRST, before anything else could even be addressed. This may seem irrelevant (as Sollecito hasn't shown he is creative), - but I would
say the signs are that his past (and current?) drug use needs to be sorted before anything else can possibly be.
Such a destructive shame that this has all dragged on for 7years.
I don't think he has any idea as to how to give a 'press conference' - even supposing , by a miracle, he was going to tell the unadulterated truth. He is way out of his depth. I doubt he has sufficient communication skills in his own language, let alone In English for the American media.
5. And The Take Of Hopeful On RS Now
As he is back in the spotlight for the July 1 press conference, your observations about him are timely. He does seem more introverted than Knox, and less articulate. Correct me if I misinterpret what you said about him, that rather than lash out at others aggressively like Knox does to disperse and blame others for her awful feelings about her dark side, Sollecito does the opposite and feels the weight of shame but turns the unbearable feelings inward. He is poster child for passive-aggressive.
I also believe he does have a sense of deep loyalty and faithfulness to his family, since his father has never abandoned him nor did his mother. He has misplaced loyalties at times, and combines a stubborn streak with false sense of need to persevere after he has made wrong steps.
This comment is mainly a review of what you conclude about Raf, but bears repeating. He is ashamed of his "catastrophically bad judgment." I agree, his pride is wounded, his vanity more than his love for Knox.
I believe Raffaele sincerely regrets what he realizes he has done to his own family, but still can't quite confess it. Maybe part of him is sorry but part of him is secretly glad he is controlling his father's destiny, in punitive action for divorcing his mother. He also sent his sister's career down the cliff. His sister is really to blame for that so with true passive-aggressive deceptiveness he can hide his responsibility for it while causing it.
His wanky emotions have made a trainwreck of his intelligence and caused him to do "idiotically stupid" things and self-destruct.
His drug use to relieve inner confusion caused by lack of self-identity is a coping method that does more harm than good. His patience is more of a drug stupor that makes him slow to act, than real gritted teeth patience, which may be why we've waited this long (6 years) for him to reveal the truth about Knox.
He stayed in a cloud of marijuana until she came along. She liked the drugs, too. He allowed her to set the course of his life because he needed or wanted a woman to sort out his emotions. Maybe he was competing with dad with a new hot blondie, too. He didn't fathom that Knox would become so extreme and so terrifying.
He underestimated Knox, and she saw she could manipulate and destroy him with one hand tied behind her back. She reveled in the besotted weakling, and she felt superiority over Guede too, and soon despised them both. She wouldn't fall into some darkened room or quiet void of depression like Raffaele's mom had done giving up on life. The insulated quiet Italian boy raised scrupulously did not see that with Knox he would be "swallowed up in the juggernaut AK set in motion". He wanted her power and excited vision, but he couldn't understand her mental illness that went with it. Love is blind.
As long as he could blame her and not himself maybe he was OK with it, especially with drugs to dull the pain, until he felt the full impact of her punishment and years later her treachery. Finally he grew a brain and saw it was Knox who betrayed him, not vice versa. Maybe the press conference is to set that straight.
His drug use got him through much of his first year of prison when he lost all sense of time and space. He was a basketcase. He probably used meds his last 3 years behind bars as well. Perhaps Dr. Sollecito saw that his son got legal prescriptions for him, maybe even purchasing prison favors that way, who knows?
Maybe Knox scoffed at Raf's crutch, and she continued to compete with him behind bars. She scoffed at her mom for taking antidepressants. Knox had no room to talk as she herself was reportedly a massive drug user at UW and in Italy found a job where liquor flowed.
Has Raf continued the drug use? Does Greta his new girlfriend use drugs? Or has he sworn them off motivated by anger and determination to clear his head for his legal fight?
The concept of "anima" is unknown to me, although the term is familiar. I will research it online, thank you. Your insights are always valuable, thank you for sharing them. Thanks for educating us in the short comment format which can't do justice to your full knowledge of the subject, but does shed a lot of light and points the way.
Raffaele's mother and her sad demise seem to be at the root of her son's depression. Raf has lack of confidence and the need to bluff where he feels no real power. He and Knox are still learning tricks from each other.
I think Knox may have been a father-figure to him in a twisted way, because Amanda is energetic and adventurous and for a short while in Perugia seemed to have it all together and be a hard worker like his dad. Raf met Knox at the peak of her exhileration with her new life in Italy. Like a drug high, it might not have lasted. He was completely deceived.
He may have felt he could never compete with his older sister who might have seemed to him like Amanda and his dad: energetic, capable, feet on ground. This is probably what Raf needs in his life.
Raf commented on Knox living life as if in a dream, there was no reality in her mind, she lived only for pleasure. Maybe he did not like this side of her. This was his wakeup call and he spoke about it openly because it was something he didn't like, having thought at first glance she was a strong American. He didn't know whether to attribute her odd mental impracticality to her nationality, her genetics, her femaleness, or her unknown religious upbringing. He had no clue, and maybe it even made him feel stronger and more grounded by comparison since he had formerly thought of himself as a tetherless dreamer but he didn't want another spaced out confused dreamer like himself for a partner and was having second thoughts. He preferred her rough kick-butt side. She was the brother he never had, a wild West type, a cowboy to climb trees with and roam the range, the key to a new country after his launch to Munich didn't work out.
In early childhood Raf maybe got labeled or saw himself as "slow" or "dumb" and began to live a self-fulfilling prophecy. He might have felt misunderstood knowing that he did have a lot of intelligence, but that he did not have the same personality as his dad or sis, and not wanting to be equated with his pushed aside mom. He must have felt very alone.
He also may be carrying a lot of shame about his MPD Psycho habit and his secret fantasy life of violence.
Raffaele may have been turned off yet partly tantalized by his father's profession. A doctor sees a lot of blood and gruesome things with the body.
Raffaele may hero worship a father who can face such grotesque things without wincing, and a sister who had power with the police and saw crime victims.
You mention the Arts and a psychologist who treated performers with burnout and creative types who needed help or a life coach. Maybe Raffaele does see himself as more that artsy type of person, someone wanting to create computer games, sci-fi fantasy, or be an "Experience Teller". He did write a book, so maybe he does fall into the category of artistic temperament, which often needs a guide or an infusion of stiffened backbone to face the realities of life in a business sense.
Knox seems to be struggling with math, yet her mom is a math teacher and her dad an accountant.
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Raff Sollecito, The defenses, Diversion efforts by, The Sollecitos
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (12)
Saturday, June 28, 2014
Sollecito Suddenly Remembers He Wasnt There But Cannot Speak For Knox Who (As She Said) Went Out
Posted by Peter QuennellClick here to go straight to Comments
1. Today's Development
Sollecito is said to be standing on Knox's shoulders there… Sollecito is becoming intent on digging himself out (really). Bu there are problems.
Let us start by considering the last two public performances by Raffaele Sollecito's defense, both in Florence. They consisted of:
- 1. Giulia Bongiorno in her summation back in January, in Florence, at the tail-end of RS's and AK's appeal, ranting on foolishly about Perugia and Rome justice officials, in an apparent attempt to outdo even the nastiness of Amanda Knox's earlier email which also ranted on foolishly to Judge Nencini.
2. Giulia Bongiorno fooishly taking strong offense to Judge Nencini wondering why Sollecito remained so bound to Knox and so little forthcoming, and then Bongiorno foolishly having her political allies advance a complaint to the Supreme Council of Magistrates, dropped after a brief investigation.
Now guess what?
An apparent u-turn, or at least a blink and slight deviation, in the suicidal game of chicken the Knox and Sollecito camps have long thought to be so smart.
Bongiorno or others very close to Sollecito, probably including his father and an aunt, seem to be shooting for a teeny bit of separation.
This loosening of bonds with Amanda Knox is hinted-at in his appeal to Cassation (which frankly we find boring, repetitive and childish) over the Nencini finding.
Today it is made slightly more explicit by Sollecito in a magazine interview. And next Tuesday the Sollecito team will stage a press conference.
2. Fraught With Problems
The Sollecitos would be wise to bump up their plea to Cassation about 100-fold. If this new bid is to go anywhere it MUST be referred back down to Judge Nencini.
Yes that is the same Judge Nencini who already reacted firmly to abrasive pressure from the Knox camp. And the same Judge Nencini who early this year felt the abrasive pressure described above from the Sollecito team.
Substantial evidence that Sollecito was at the house still looms like an 80,000 pound gorilla - see a listing of it in one of our next posts.
And one key thing about the Italian system: it has immense capacity to hit back very hard in response to out-of-court pressure and attempts to poison public opinion.
As we have explained previously, these strong powers originate in the endless fight against the mafias, which have long used defamation of justice officials as a way of seeking some relief for their guys.
The reason why Knox is sentenced to 28 and a half years on top of her three years served for calunnia doesnt yet seem to have sunk into the slow minds of Knox or her family or her vigilantes..
But Sollecito is increasingly alive to the ability of Italian justice to hit back very hard when the justice system and its officials are impugned.
Yesterday Sollecito and his lawyer Alfredo Brizioli were being interviewed for the multiple false charges of crimes in Honor Bound The book is pretty horrific and new charges seem certain.
The foolish shadow-writer Andrew Gumbel has surfaced, and appointed a lawyer, and is expected to join him.
Our guess? Sollecito will need to tell all, and make a major plea for forgiveness from the Kerchers, if any grownups are to listen to him.
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Raff Sollecito, Public evidence, Knox's alibis, Sollecito's alibis, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, The Sollecitos
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (16)
Wednesday, June 25, 2014
The Knox Interrogation Hoax #8: Testimony Of Interpreter Donnino And Central Police Officer Giobbi
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
Knox shortly before rising to try to persuade court against this damning testimony
1. What Really Happened on 5-6 November
The intros to Posts #1 to #7 explain what really happened at Knox's recap/summary session on 5-6 November 2007.
In a sentence: Knox was there unwanted and grumpy, was advised to go and sleep, refused, agreed to build a list of possible perps (she listed seven, including Rudy Guede), spontaneously broke into a wailing conniption over a message she sent to Patrick, was semi-calmed-down and repeatedly provided refreshments, and insisted on writing three statements without a lawyer all of which said she went out on the night of the attack, all framing Patrick, one even pointing at Sollecito.
The headers of all previous posts in this series can be found at the end of Post #1.
2. Testimony Of Interpreter Anna Donnino
Click below to open up Anna Donnino's testimony kindly translated by Catnip. She did a lot of the case-related interpretation and translation throughout November 2007. She was present at the recap/summary session with Rita Ficarra on 6 November from around 12:30 am which concluded with a first statement Knox insisted on dictating at 1:45 am.
Anna Donnino was also present at the formal legal-rights session with Dr Mignini on 6 November from around 5:00 am which conclude with a second statement Knox insisted on dictating at 5:45 am. Donnino translated both those statements and the third Knox scribbled around noon. .
The transcript below describes this and other work done also. She was not the only interpreter or translator used by the police in November, but she did the bulk of the work, and she was present at several key sessions.
3. Relevant Testimony Of Officer Edgardo Giobbi
Click below to open up Edgardo Giobbi's testimony kindly translated by ZiaK. An officer from Rome, he was in the central police station that night. He doesnt make a fully credible witness, as he includes claims about his role that night which we are told are inflated and perhaps beamed at his superiors in Rome.
These exaggerations were skeptically challnged by Dr Mignini. However for what it is worth his testimony backs up certain aspects of the statements of those who actually were face to face with Knox and Sollecito that night. Nobody else testified that Knox was called to the questura and several testified that she wasnt and turned up and insisted on staying on her own account.
ZiaK's full translation of Dr Giobbi's testimony can be found on McCall's Wiki.
Click here for the rest
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Police and CSI, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, The twelve hoaxes, Knox interrog. hoax
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (19)
Monday, June 23, 2014
The Knox Interrogation Hoax #7: Further Testimony Of Key Witness Zugarini To Knox Conniption 5-6 Nov
Posted by The TJMK Main PostersClick here to go straight to Comments
[Perugia cental police station: Meredith's house is several miles away directly behind]
Context Of This Post
This translated transcript continues the testimony of Inspector Lorena Zugarini quoted in the post directly below.
It is a further description from the fourth of about eight police staff who testified to Knox agreeing to help out with a list of possible perps and then melting down at the central police station on 5-6 Nov.
We'll have one more eyewitness post and after that what the oversight judges made of this in 2008. Thereafter, Knox's disbelieved claims on the stand at her trial in 2009 when she tried to deny framing Patrick, and accused the police of crimes, and the reasons why all the trial and appeal judges from 2009 to 2014 concluded she had lied, and all the many witnesses had told the truth .
Then we enter an alternative universe, that of Amanda Knox herself (really) and the many Knox addicts mainly in the US who amazingly have shrugged off all of this rock-solid arc, and have pushed the interrogation hoax to its present ludicrous shape and size.
Those alternative-universe posts should put the shrill conspiracists on the put-up-or-shut-up spot and determine whether Knox continues on the same futile, damaging tack.
This new translation again is by the professional translator ZiaK. "GCM" is Judge Massei who watches over Knox's legal interests but who also seeks to clarify.
Click here for the rest
Archived in Officially involved, Amanda Knox, Police and CSI, Diversion efforts by, The Knox-Mellases, The twelve hoaxes, Knox interrog. hoax
Permalink for this post • Tell-a-Friend • Case Wiki • PMF Org Forum • PMF Net Forum • Comments here (13)