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PROTAGORAS by Plato, Part 02
And what is your purpose? he said. I must explain, I said, that my friend Hippocrates is a native Athenian; he is the son of Apollodorus
, and of a great and prosperous house, and he is himself in natural ability quite a match for anybody of his own age. I believe that he aspires to political eminence; and this he thinks that conversation with you is most likely to procure for him. And now you can determine whether you would wish to speak to him of your teaching alone or in the presence of the company. Thank you, Socrates, for your consideration of me. For certainly a stranger finding his way into great cities, and persuading the flower of the youth in them to leave company of their kinsmen or any other acquaintances, old or young, and live with him, under the idea that they will be improved by his conversation, ought to be very cautious; great jealousies are aroused by his proceedings, and he is the subject of many enmities and conspiracies. Now the art of the Sophist is, as I believe, of great antiquity; but in ancient times those who practised it, fearing this odium, veiled and disguised themselves under various names, some under that of poets, as Homer, Hesiod, and Simonides, some, of hierophants and prophets, as Orpheus and Musaeus, and some, as I observe, even under the name of gymnastic-masters, like Iccus of Tarentum, or the more recently celebrated Herodicus, now of Selymbria and formerly of Megara, who is a first-rate Sophist. Your own Agathocles pretended to be a musician, but was really an eminent Sophist; also Pythocleides the Cean; and there were many others; and all of them, as I was saying, adopted these arts as veils or disguises because they were afraid of the odium which they would incur. But that is not my way, for I do not believe that they effected their purpose, which was to deceive the government, who were not blinded by them; and as to the people, they have no understanding, and only repeat what their rulers are pleased to tell them. Now to run away, and to be caught in running away, is the very height of folly, and also greatly increases the exasperation of mankind; for they regard him who runs away as a rogue, in addition to any other objections which they have to him; and therefore I take an entirely opposite course, and acknowledge myself to be a Sophist and instructor of mankind; such an open acknowledgement appears to me to be a better sort of caution than concealment. Nor do I neglect other precautions, and therefore I hope, as I may say, by the favour of heaven that no harm will come of the acknowledgment that I am a Sophist. And I have been now many years in the profession-for all my years when added up are many: there is no one here present of whom I might not be the father. Wherefore I should much prefer conversing with you, if you want to speak with me, in the presence of the company. As I suspected that he would like to have a little display and glorification in the presence of Prodicus and Hippias, and would gladly show us to them in the light of his admirers, I said: But why should we not summon Prodicus and Hippias and their friends to hear us? Very good, he said. Suppose, said Callias, that we hold a council in which you may sit and discuss.-This was agreed upon, and great delight was felt at the prospect of hearing wise men talk; we ourselves took the chairs and benches, and arranged them by Hippias, where the other benches had been already placed. Meanwhile Callias and Alcibiades got Prodicus out of bed and brought in him and his companions. When we were all seated, Protagoras said: Now that the company are assembled, Socrates, tell me about the youngman of whom you were just now speaking. I replied: I will begin again at the same point, Protagoras, and tell you once more the purport of my visit: this is my friend Hippocrates, who is desirous of making your acquaintance; he would like to know what will happen to him if he associates with you. I have no more to say. Protagoras answered: Young man, if you associate with me, on the very first day you will return home a better man than you came, and better on the second day than on the first, and better every day than you were on the day before. When I heard this, I said: Protagoras, I do not at all wonder at hearing you say this; even at your age, and with all your wisdom, if any one were to teach you what you did not know before, you would become better no doubt: but please to answer in a different way-I will explain how by an example. Let me suppose that Hippocrates, instead of desiring your acquaintance, wished to become acquainted with the young man Zeuxippus of Heraclea, who has lately been in Athens, and he had come to him as he has come to you, and had heard him say, as he has heard you say, that every day he would grow and become better if he associated with him: and then suppose that he were to ask him, "In what shall I become better, and in what shall I grow?"-Zeuxippus would answer, "In painting." And suppose that he went to Orthagoras the Theban, and heard him say the same thing, and asked him, "In what shall I become better day by day?" he would reply, "In flute-playing." Now I want you to make the same sort of answer to this young man and to me, who am asking questions on his account. When you say that on the first day on which he associates with you he will return home a better man, and on every day will grow in like manner,-In what, Protagoras, will he be better? and about what? When Protagoras heard me say this, he replied: You ask questions fairly, and I like to answer a question which is fairly put. If Hippocrates comes to me he will not experience the sort of drudgery with which other Sophists are in the habit of insulting their pupils; who, when they have just escaped from the arts, are taken and driven back into them by these teachers, and made to learn calculation, and astronomy, and geometry, and music (he gave a look at Hippias as he said this); but if he comes to me, he will learn that which he comes to learn. And this is prudence in affairs private as well as public; he will learn to order his own house in the best manner, and he will be able to speak and act for the best in the affairs of the state. Do I understand you, I said; and is your meaning that you teach the art of politics, and that you promise to make men good citizens? That, Socrates, is exactly the profession which I make. Then, I said, you do indeed possess a noble art, if there is no mistake about this; for I will freely confess to you, Protagoras, that I have a doubt whether this art is capable of being taught, and yet I know not how to disbelieve your assertion. And I ought to tell you why I am of opinion that this art cannot be taught or communicated by man to man. I say that the Athenians are an understanding people, and indeed they are esteemed to be such by the other Hellenes. Now I observe that when we are met together in the assembly, and the matter in hand relates to building, the builders are summoned as advisers; when the question is one of shipbuilding, then the ship-wrights; and the like of other arts which they think capable of being taught and learned. And if some person offers to give them advice who is not supposed by them to have any skill in the art, even though he be good-looking, and rich, and noble, they will not listen to him, but laugh and hoot at him, until either he is clamoured down and retires of himself; or if he persist, he is dragged away or put out by the constables at the command of the prytanes. This is their way of behaving about professors of the arts. But when the question is an affair of state, then everybody is free to have a say-carpenter, tinker, cobbler, sailor, passenger; rich and poor, high and low-any one who likes gets up, and no one reproaches him, as in the former case, with not having learned, and having no teacher, and yet giving advice; evidently because they are under the impression that this sort of knowledge cannot be taught. And not only is this true of the state, but of individuals; the best and wisest of our citizens are unable to impart their political wisdom to others: as for example, Pericles, the father of these young men, who gave them excellent instruction in all that could be learned from masters, in his own department of politics neither taught them, nor gave them teachers; but they were allowed to wander at their own free will in a sort of hope that they would light upon virtue of their own accord. Or take another example: there was Cleinias the younger brother of our friend Alcibiades, of whom this very same Pericles was the guardian; and he being in fact under the apprehension that Cleinias would be corrupted by Alcibiades, took him away, and placed him in the house of Ariphron to be educated; but before six months had elapsed, Ariphron sent him back, not knowing what to do with him. And I could mention numberless other instances of persons who were good themselves, and never yet made any one else good, whether friend or stranger. Now I, Protagoras, having these examples before me, am inclined to think that virtue cannot be taught. But then again, when I listen to your words, I waver; and am disposed to think that there must be something in what you say, because I know that you have great experience, and learning, and invention. And I wish that you would, if possible, show me a little more clearly that virtue can be taught. Will you be so good? That I will, Socrates, and gladly. But what would you like? Shall I, as an elder, speak to you as younger men in an apologue or myth, or shall I argue out the question? To this several of the company answered that he should choose for himself. Well, then, he said, I think that the myth will be more interesting. Once upon a time there were gods only, and no mortal creatures. But when the time came that these also should be created, the gods fashioned them out of earth and fire and various mixtures of both elements in the interior of the earth; and when they were about to bring them into the light of day, they ordered Prometheus and Epimetheus to equip them, and to distribute to them severally their proper qualities. Epimetheus said to Prometheus: "Let me distribute, and do you inspect." This was agreed, and Epimetheus made the distribution. There were some to whom he gave strength without swiftness, while he equipped the weaker with swiftness; some he armed, and others he left unarmed; and devised for the latter some other means of preservation, making some large, and having their size as a protection, and others small, whose nature was to fly in the air or burrow in the ground; this was to be their way of escape. Thus did he compensate them with the view of preventing any race from becoming extinct. And when he had provided against their destruction by one another, he contrived also a means of protecting them against the seasons of heaven; clothing them with close hair and thick skins sufficient to defend them against the winter cold and able to resist the summer heat, so that they might have a natural bed of their own when they wanted to rest; also he furnished them with hoofs and hair and hard and callous skins under their feet. Then he gave them varieties of food-herb of the soil to some, to others fruits of trees, and to others roots, and to some again he gave other animals as food. And some he made to have few young ones, while those who were their prey were very prolific; and in this manner the race was preserved. Thus did Epimetheus, who, not being very wise, forgot that he had distributed among the brute animals all the qualities which he had to give-and when he came to man, who was still unprovided, he was terribly perplexed. Now while he was in this perplexity, Prometheus came to inspect the distribution, and he found that the other animals were suitably furnished, but that man alone was naked and shoeless, and had neither bed nor arms of defence. The appointed hour was approaching when man in his turn was to go forth into the light of day; and Prometheus, not knowing how he could devise his salvation, stole the mechanical arts of Hephaestus and Athene, and fire with them (they could neither have been acquired nor used without fire), and gave them to man. Thus man had the wisdom necessary to the support of life, but political wisdom he had not; for that was in the keeping of Zeus, and the power of Prometheus did not extend to entering into the citadel of heaven, where Zeus dwelt, who moreover had terrible sentinels; but he did enter by stealth into the common workshop of Athene and Hephaestus, in which they used to practise their favourite arts, and carried off Hephaestus' art of working by fire, and also the art of Athene, and gave them to man. And in this way man was supplied with the means of life. But Prometheus is said to have been afterwards prosecuted for theft, owing to the blunder of Epimetheus. Now man, having a share of the divine attributes, was at first the only one of the animals who had any gods, because he alone was of their kindred; and he would raise altars and images of them. He was not long in inventing articulate speech and names; and he also constructed houses and clothes and shoes and beds, and drew sustenance from the earth. Thus provided, mankind at first lived dispersed, and there were no cities. But the consequence was that they were destroyed by the wild beasts, for they were utterly weak in comparison of them, and their art was only sufficient to provide them with the means of life, and did not enable them to carry on war against the animals: food they had, but not as yet the art of government, of which the art of war is a part. After a while the desire of self-preservation gathered them into cities; but when they were gathered together, having no art of government, they evil intreated one another, and were again in process of dispersion and destruction. Zeus feared that the entire race would be exterminated, and so he sent Hermes to them, bearing reverence and justice to be the ordering principles of cities and the bonds of friendship and conciliation. Hermes asked Zeus how he should impart justice and reverence among men:-Should he distribute them as the arts are distributed; that is to say, to a favoured few only, one skilled individual having enough of medicine or of any other art for many unskilled ones? "Shall this be the manner in which I am to distribute justice and reverence among men, or shall I give them to all?" "To all," said Zeus; "I should like them all to have a share; for cities cannot exist, if a few only share in the virtues, as in the arts. And further, make a law by my order, that he who has no part in reverence and justice shall be put to death, for he is a plague of the state." And this is the reason, Socrates, why the Athenians and mankind in general, when the question relates to carpentering or any other mechanical art, allow but a few to share in their deliberations; and when any one else interferes, then, as you say, they object, if he be not of the favoured few; which, as I reply, is very natural. But when they meet to deliberate about political virtue, which proceeds only by way of justice and wisdom, they are patient enough of any man who speaks of them, as is also natural, because they think that every man ought to share in this sort of virtue, and that states could not exist if this were otherwise. I have explained to you, Socrates, the reason of this phenomenon. And that you may not suppose yourself to be deceived in thinking that all men regard every man as having a share of justice or honesty and of every other political virtue, let me give you a further proof, which is this. In other cases, as you are aware, if a man says that he is a good flute-player, or skilful in any other art in which he has no skill, people either laugh at him or are angry with him, and his relations think that he is mad and go and admonish him; but when honesty is in question, or some other political virtue, even if they know that he is dishonest, yet, if the man comes publicly forward and tells the truth about his dishonesty, then, what in the other case was held by them to be good sense, they now deem to be madness. They say that all men ought to profess honesty whether they are honest or not, and that a man is out of his mind who says anything else. Their notion is, that a man must have some degree of honesty; and that if he has none at all he ought not to be in the world. I have been showing that they are right in admitting every man as a counsellor about this sort of virtue, as they are of opinion that every man is a partaker of it. And I will now endeavour to show further that they do not conceive this virtue to be given by nature, or to grow spontaneously, but to be a thing which may be taught; and which comes to a man by taking pains. No one would instruct, no one would rebuke, or be angry with those whose calamities they suppose to be due to nature or chance; they do not try to punish or to prevent them from being what they are; they do but pity them. Who is so foolish as to chastise or instruct the ugly, or the diminutive, or the feeble? And for this reason. Because he knows that good and evil of this kind is the work of nature and of chance; whereas if a man is wanting in those good qualities which are attained by study and exercise and teaching, and has only the contrary evil qualities, other men are angry with him, and punish and reprove him-of these evil qualities one is impiety, another injustice, and they may be described generally as the very opposite of political virtue. In such cases any man will be angry with another, and reprimand him,-clearly because he thinks that by study and learning, the virtue in which the other is deficient may be acquired. If you will think, Socrates, of the nature of punishment, you will see at once that in the opinion of mankind virtue may be acquired; no one punishes the evil-doer under the notion, or for the reason, that he has done wrong, only the unreasonable fury of a beast acts in that manner. But he who desires to inflict rational punishment does not retaliate for a past wrong which cannot be undone; he has regard to the future, and is desirous that the man who is punished, and he who sees him punished, may be deterred from doing wrong again. He punishes for the sake of prevention, thereby clearly implying that virtue is capable of being taught. This is the notion of all who retaliate upon others either privately or publicly. And the Athenians, too, your own citizens, like other men, punish and take vengeance on all whom they regard as evil doers; and hence, we may infer them to be of the number of those who think that virtue may be acquired and taught. Thus far, Socrates, I have shown you clearly enough, if I am not mistaken, that your countrymen are right in admitting the tinker and the cobbler to advise about politics, and also that they deem virtue to be capable of being taught and acquired. There yet remains one difficulty which has been raised by you about the sons of good men. What is the reason why good men teach their sons the knowledge which is gained from teachers, and make them wise in that, but do nothing towards improving them in the virtues which distinguish themselves? And here, Socrates, I will leave the apologue and resume the argument. Please to consider: Is there or is there not some one quality of which all the citizens must be partakers, if there is to be a city at all? In the answer to this question is contained the only solution of your difficulty; there is no other. For if there be any such quality, and this quality or unity is not the art of the carpenter, or the smith, or the potter, but justice and temperance and holiness and, in a word, manly virtue-if this is the quality of which all men must be partakers, and which is the very condition of their learning or doing anything else, and if he who is wanting in this, whether he be a child only or a grown-up man or woman, must be taught and punished, until by punishment he becomes better, and he who rebels against instruction and punishment is either exiled or condemned to death under the idea that he is incurable-if what I am saying be true, good men have their sons taught other things and not this, do consider how extraordinary their conduct would appear to be. For we have shown that they think virtue capable of being taught and cultivated both in private and public; and, notwithstanding, they have their sons taught lesser matters, ignorance of which does not involve the punishment of death: but greater things, of which the ignorance may cause death and exile to those who have no training or knowledge of them-aye, and confiscation as well as death, and, in a word, may be the ruin of families-those things, I say, they are supposed not to teach them-not to take the utmost care that they should learn. How improbable is this, Socrates! Education and admonition commence in the first years of childhood, and last to the very end of life. Mother and nurse and father and tutor are vying with one another about the improvement of the child as soon as ever he is able to understand what is being said to him: he cannot say or do anything without their setting forth to him that this is just and that is unjust; this is honourable, that is dishonourable; this is holy, that is unholy; do this and abstain from that. And if he obeys, well and good; if not, he is straightened by threats and blows, like a piece of bent or warped wood. At a later stage they send him to teachers, and enjoin them to see to his manners even more than to his reading and music; and the teachers do as they are desired. And when the boy has learned his letters and is beginning to understand what is written, as before he understood only what was spoken, they put into his hands the works of great poets, which he reads sitting on a bench at school; in these are contained many admonitions, and many tales, and praises, and encomia of ancient famous men, which he is required to learn by heart, in order that he may imitate or emulate them and desire to become like them. Then, again, the teachers of the lyre take similar care that their young disciple is temperate and gets into no mischief; and when they have taught him the use of the lyre, they introduce him to the poems of other excellent poets, who are the lyric poets; and these they set to music, and make their harmonies ana rhythms quite familiar to the children's souls, in order that they may learn to be more gentle, and harmonious, and rhythmical, and so more fitted for speech and action; for the life of man in every part has need of harmony and rhythm. Then they send them to the master of gymnastic, in order that their bodies may better minister to the virtuous mind, and that they may not be compelled through bodily weakness to play the coward in war or on any other occasion. This is what is done by those who have the means, and those who have the means are the rich; their children begin to go to school soonest and leave off latest. When they have done with masters, the state again compels them to learn the laws, and live after the pattern which they furnish, and not after their own fancies; and just as in learning to write, the writing-master first draws lines with a style for the use of the young beginner, and gives him the tablet and makes him follow the lines, so the city draws the laws, which were the invention of good lawgivers living in the olden time; these are given to the young man, in order to guide him in his conduct whether he is commanding or obeying; and he who transgresses them is to be corrected, or, in other words, called to account, which is a term used not only in your country, but also in many others, seeing that justice calls men to account. Now when there is all this care about virtue private and public, why, Socrates, do you still wonder and doubt whether virtue can be taught? Cease to wonder, for the opposite would be far more surprising. But why then do the sons of good fathers often turn out ill? There is nothing very wonderful in this; for, as I have been saying, the existence of a state implies that virtue is not any man's private possession. If so-and nothing can be truer-then I will further ask you to imagine, as an illustration, some other pursuit or branch of knowledge which may be assumed equally to be the condition of the existence of a state. Suppose that there could be no state unless we were all flute-players, as far as each had the capacity, and everybody was freely teaching everybody the art, both in private and public, and reproving the bad player as freely and openly as every man now teaches justice and the laws, not concealing them as he would conceal the other arts, but imparting them-for all of us have a mutual interest in the justice and virtue of one another, and this is the reason why every one is so ready to teach justice and the laws;-suppose, I say, that there were the same readiness and liberality among us in teaching one another flute-playing, do you imagine, Socrates, that the sons of good flute players would be more likely to be good than the sons of bad ones? I think not. Would not their sons grow up to be distinguished or undistinguished according to their own natural capacities as flute-players, and the son of a good player would often turn out to be a bad one, and the son of a bad player to be a good one, all flute-players would be good enough in comparison of those who were ignorant and unacquainted with the art of flute-playing? In like manner I would have you consider that he who appears to you to be the worst of those who have been brought up in laws and humanities, would appear to be a just man and a master of justice if he were to be compared with men who had no education, or courts of justice, or laws, or any restraints upon them which compelled them to practise virtue-with the savages, for example, whom the poet Pherecrates exhibited on the stage at the last year's Lenaean festival. If you were living among men such as the man-haters in his Chorus, you would be only too glad to meet with Eurybates and Phrynondas, and you would sorrowfully long to revisit the rascality of this part of the world. you, Socrates, are discontented, and why? Because all men are teachers of virtue, each one according to his ability; and you say, Where are the teachers? You might as well ask, Who teaches Greek? For of that too there will not be any teachers found. Or you might ask, Who is to teach the sons of our artisans this same art which they have learned of their fathers? He and his fellow-workmen have taught them to the best of their ability,-but who will carry them further in their arts? And you would certainly have a difficulty, Socrates, in finding a teacher of them; but there would be no difficulty in finding a teacher of those who are wholly ignorant. And this is true of virtue or of anything else; if a man is better able than we are to promote virtue ever so little, we must be content with the result. A teacher of this sort I believe myself to be, and above all other men to have the knowledge which makes a man noble and good; and I give my pupils their money's-worth, and even more, as they themselves confess. And therefore I have introduced the following mode of payment:-When a man has been my pupil, if he likes he pays my price, but there is no compulsion; and if he does not like, he has only to go into a temple and take an oath of the value of the instructions, and he pays no more than he declares to be their value. Such is my Apologue, Socrates, and such is the argument by which I endeavour to show that virtue may be taught, and that this is the opinion of the Athenians. And I have also attempted to show that you are not to wonder at good fathers having bad sons, or at good sons having bad fathers, of which the sons of Polycleitus afford an example, who are the companions of our friends here, Paralus and Xanthippus, but are nothing in comparison with their father; and this is true of the sons of many other artists. As yet I ought not to say the same of Paralus and Xanthippus themselves, for they are young and there is still hope of them. Protagoras ended, and in my ear So charming left his voice, that I the while Thought him still speaking; still stood fixed to hear. At length, when the truth dawned upon me, that he had really finished, not without difficulty I began to collect myself, and looking at Hippocrates, I said to him: O son of Apollodorus
, how deeply grateful I am to you for having brought me hither; I would not have missed the speech of Protagoras for a great deal. For I used to imagine that no human care could make men good; but I know better now. Yet I have still one very small difficulty which I am sure that Protagoras will easily explain, as he has already explained so much. If a man were to go and consult Pericles or any of our great speakers about these matters, he might perhaps hear as fine a discourse; but then when one has a question to ask of any of them, like books, they can neither answer nor ask; and if any one challenges the least particular of their speech, they go ringing on in a long harangue, like brazen pots, which when they are struck continue to sound unless some one puts his hand upon them; whereas our friend Protagoras can not only make a good speech, as he has already shown, but when he is asked a question he can answer briefly; and when he asks he will wait and hear the answer; and this is a very rare gift. Now I, Protagoras, want to ask of you a little question, which if you will only answer, I shall be quite satisfied. You were saying that virtue can be taught;-that I will take upon your authority, and there is no one to whom I am more ready to trust. But I marvel at one thing about which I should like to have my mind set at rest. You were speaking of Zeus sending justice and reverence to men; and several times while you were speaking, justice, and temperance, and holiness, and all these qualities, were described by you as if together they made up virtue. Now I want you to tell me truly whether virtue is one whole, of which justice and temperance and holiness are parts; or whether all these are only the names of one and the same thing: that is the doubt which still lingers in my mind. There is no difficulty, Socrates, in answering that the qualities of which you are speaking are the parts of virtue which is one. And are they parts, I said, in the same sense in which mouth, nose, and eyes, and ears, are the parts of a face; or are they like the parts of gold, which differ from the whole and from one another only in being larger or smaller? I should say that they differed, Socrates, in the first way; they are related to one another as the parts of a face are related to the whole face. And do men have some one part and some another part of virtue? Of if a man has one part, must he also have all the others? By no means, he said; for many a man is brave and not just, or just and not wise. You would not deny, then, that courage and wisdom are also parts of virtue? Most undoubtedly they are, he answered; and wisdom is the noblest of the parts. And they are all different from one another? I said. Yes. And has each of them a distinct function like the parts of the face;-the eye, for example, is not like the ear, and has not the same functions; and the other parts are none of them like one another, either in their functions, or in any other way? I want to know whether the comparison holds concerning the parts of virtue. Do they also differ from one another in themselves and in their functions? For that is clearly what the simile would imply. Yes, Socrates, you are right in supposing that they differ. Then, I said, no other part of virtue is like knowledge, or like justice, or like courage, or like temperance, or like holiness? No, he answered. Well then, I said, suppose that you and I enquire into their natures. And first, you would agree with me that justice is of the nature of a thing, would you not? That is my opinion: would it not be yours also? Mine also, he said. And suppose that some one were to ask us, saying, "O Protagoras, and you, Socrates, what about this thing which you were calling justice, is it just or unjust?"-and I were to answer, just: would you vote with me or against me? With you, he said. Thereupon I should answer to him who asked me, that justice is of the nature of the just: would not you? Yes, he said. And suppose that he went on to say: "Well now, is there also such a thing as holiness? "we should answer, "Yes," if I am not mistaken? Yes, he said. Which you would also acknowledge to be a thing-should we not say so? He assented. "And is this a sort of thing which is of the nature of the holy, or of the nature of the unholy?" I should be angry at his putting such a question, and should say, "Peace, man; nothing can be holy if holiness is not holy." What would you say? Would you not answer in the same way? Certainly, he said. And then after this suppose that he came and asked us, "What were you saying just now? Perhaps I may not have heard you rightly, but you seemed to me to be saying that the parts of virtue were not the same as one another." I should reply, "You certainly heard that said, but not, as you imagine, by me; for I only asked the question; Protagoras gave the answer." And suppose that he turned to you and said, "Is this true, Protagoras? and do you maintain that one part of virtue is unlike another, and is this your position?"-how would you answer him? I could not help acknowledging the truth of what he said, Socrates. Well then, Protagoras, we will assume this; and now supposing that he proceeded to say further, "Then holiness is not of the nature of justice, nor justice of the nature of holiness, but of the nature of unholiness; and holiness is of the nature of the not just, and therefore of the unjust, and the unjust is the unholy": how shall we answer him? I should certainly answer him on my own behalf that justice is holy, and that holiness is just; and I would say in like manner on your behalf also, if you would allow me, that justice is either the same with holiness, or very nearly the same; and above all I would assert that justice is like holiness and holiness is like justice; and I wish that you would tell me whether I may be permitted to give this answer on your behalf, and whether you would agree with me. He replied, I cannot simply agree, Socrates, to the proposition that justice is holy and that holiness is just, for there appears to me to be a difference between them. But what matter? if you please I please; and let us assume, if you will I, that justice is holy, and that holiness is just. Pardon me, I replied; I do not want this "if you wish" or "if you will" sort of conclusion to be proven, but I want you and me to be proven: I mean to say that the conclusion will be best proven if there be no "if." Well, he said, I admit that justice bears a resemblance to holiness, for there is always some point of view in which everything is like every other thing; white is in a certain way like black, and hard is like soft, and the most extreme opposites have some qualities in common; even the parts of the face which, as we were saying before, are distinct and have different functions, are still in a certain point of view similar, and one of them is like another of them. And you may prove that they are like one another on the same principle that all things are like one another; and yet things which are like in some particular ought not to be called alike, nor things which are unlike in some particular, however slight, unlike. And do you think, I said in a tone of surprise, that justice and holiness have but a small degree of likeness? Certainly not; any more than I agree with what I understand to be your view. Well, I said, as you appear to have a difficulty about this, let us take another of the examples which you mentioned instead. Do you admit the existence of folly? I do. And is not wisdom the. very opposite of folly? That is true, he said. And when men act rightly and advantageously they seem to you to be temperate? Yes, he said. And temperance makes them temperate? Certainly. And they who do not act rightly act foolishly, and in acting thus are not temperate? I agree, he said. Then to act foolishly is the opposite of acting temperately? He assented. And foolish actions are done by folly, and temperate actions by temperance? He agreed. And that is done strongly which is done by strength, and that which is weakly done, by weakness? He assented. And that which is done with swiftness is done swiftly, and that which is done with slowness, slowly? He assented again. And that which is done in the same manner, is done by the same; and that which is done in an opposite manner by the opposite? He agreed. Once more, I said, is there anything beautiful? Yes. To which the only opposite is the ugly? There is no other. And is there anything good? There is. To which the only opposite is the evil? There is no other. And there is the acute in sound? True. To which the only opposite is the grave? There is no other, he said, but that. Then every opposite has one opposite only and no more? He assented. Then now, I said, let us recapitulate our admissions. First of all we admitted that everything has one opposite and not more than one? We did so. And we admitted also that what was done in opposite ways was done by opposites? Yes. And that which was done foolishly, as we further admitted, was done in the opposite way to that which was done temperately?
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Panama City Beach - Cellular Sales, Verizon Wireless Retailer
|Panama City Beach
11560 Panama City Beach Pkwy
Panama City Beach, FL 32407
Mon-Sat 9:00am-8:00pm
Sun 12:00pm-6:00pm
Our Panama City Beach location is a full-service store for Verizon Wireless products and service. The newest 4G/LTE smartphones, devices and tablets are available locally in Panama City Beach. Come experience the speed of 4G/LTE, pay your bill or get a personalized rate plan analysis. Our Panama City Beach reps are standing by to help you.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Last week, it was reported that MODOT was about to deploy LRAD (long-range acoustic device) sound cannons to get drivers to slow down near work sites. Unsurprisingly, many people were doubtful that emitting a loud and annoying sound was the best way to encourage people to let off the gas, and MODOT' ... More >>
There's a lot going on in that headline, because -- some believe -- there's a lot going on in the Ozarks. Like, a lot. Namely, that a secret network of global puppet-masters known as the Illuminati are building a vast bunker in the caves underneath a fortified mega-mansion near Ozark, Missouri ... More >>
The idiots what brung you Dumb and Dumber ain't funny no more
Café Balaban, 405 North Euclid Avenue, 314-361-8085
We raise our glass to John Goodman, the Cubs (please don't hit us) and the almighty Pimp; plus, not everyone is buying what the Department of Homeland Security is selling
The left, turning right, was plain wrong to attack pop culture
Satanists disdain the season -- they'd rather be carnal than good for goodness' sake
With this presidential debate, the highlights didn't come from Bush or Gore
Ross Perot launched the Reform Party as the voice of the American people. Eight years later, it's a shrill, staticky free-for-all, and the moderates can't get heard.
The biggest badass of them all, Sonny Barger, recounts in a new memoir the 40-plus years of his life spent with the Hell's Angels
Directed by Barry Blaustein
Will someone from the Reform Party please report to the office?
The passing of wrestling promoter Sam Muchnick rekindles interest in the wrestling days of yore
Radio gadfly and author Jim Hightower discusses his talk show, the fate of the populist movement and the perils of the middle of the road


text:
ITS to Administer Windows Security Update
To enhance performance and reliability, information technology services will administer Microsoft Windows Security Updates for all University Windows-based computers beginning at 7 p.m. Thursday, Nov 4.
Do not stop or interrupt the process during these installs. Users can expect a PatchLink Update window (see below) to appear on screen prompting a computer reboot.
This will occur when you first login after the update is complete. The reboot can be delayed for up to 24 hours.
Remember to save and conclude any open files.
For more information on ITS deploying security updates, visit the ITS website.
Contact the ITS Service Desk at 977-4000 or email@example.com for more information.


text:
November 6, 2001
There was a meeting held at 6:30 p.m., on Tuesday, November 6, 2001, of the Randolph County Planning Board in the Commissioners' Meeting Room, Randolph County Office Building, 725 McDowell Road, Asheboro, North Carolina.
1. Chairman Maxton McDowell called to Order the Randolph County Planning Board Meeting at 6:30 p.m.
2. Hal Johnson, Planning Director, called roll of the Members: Maxton McDowell, Chairman, present; Bill Dorsett, Vice Chairman, present; Lynden Craven, present; Al Morton, present; Phil Ridge, present; Larry Brown, present; Chris McLeod, present; and Mark Brower, Alternate, absent.
3. Brown made the motion, seconded by Craven, to approve the Minutes of the October 2nd, 2001, Randolph County Planning Board Meeting. The motion passed.
4. Resolution Concerning P.A.R.T. Land Use Policies
Johnson stated that Randolph County is a member of the Piedmont Authority for Regional Transportation (P.A.R.T.). This is a public authority charged by the Legislature with planning for long range transportation issues affecting the Piedmont Triad. Public transit and alternative means of transportation is a critical component of P.A.R.T.'s mission, as single family car transportation might soon experience grid lock in the Piedmont Triad area. Johnson introduced Jim Yarborough, planning consultant for P.A.R.T. Johnson said Mr. Yarborough is the recently retired Planning Director of the Winston-Salem/Forsyth County Joint Planning Board.
Jim Yarborough, Consultant with the Piedmont Authority for Regional Transportation, thanked the Board for their time. Yarborough said this organization was created in 1998. Yarborough presented a map of the region with membership to P.A.R.T. Yarborough said they are governed by a Board of Trustees and stated that Commissioner Darryl Frye is a member of this Board. Yarborough discussed the programs P.A.R.T. works with and said that in the early 90's the organization was granted funding for some regional transportation planning. Yarborough said that through this process they established a set of policies and actions by a comprehensive plan. Yarborough described the process the organization went through in determining these policies and actions; and presented maps used during this process. Yarborough asked the Board to adopt the 2025 Policies and Actions as appropriate for regional land use and transportation planning in the Piedmont Triad and work to coordinate the County comprehensive plan with these policies and actions. These policies and actions are as follows:
1. Coordinate long-range land use/transportation planning on a regional and local basis.
2. Direct a significant portion of future land use development to existing and proposed targeted nodes and transit corridors to support transit.
3. Integrate land use planning with infrastructure development.
4. Encourage redevelopment of infill and "under invested" areas.
Johnson said that these policies are in keeping with the proposed Growth Management Plan currently under consideration with the Board of Commissioners.
Craven made the motion, seconded by Dorsett, to adopt the Resolution Concerning P.A.R.T. Land Use Policies. The motion passed unanimously.
Dorsett asked what they would provide to help in making Land Use decision for Randolph County and Yarborough said that PART would begin to work on more details to these policies and providing these details to this Board at a later date.
Yarborough said that he would forward the Resolution approved by this Board to P.A.R.T. and this will help to provide grant money to support their policies.
"Do you swear or affirm that the information you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?"
7 citizens took this Oath.
A. EDWARD MORAN, Sophia, North Carolina, is requesting a Special Use Permit to allow a general automotive repair and N.C. inspections in an existing 30 x 30 building to be located at his residence at 1403 Rich Farm Trail, 1.00 acre, Back Creek Township, Zoning District RA, Parcel ID # 7747696078.
Moran explained that he has been operating his business here for 2 months and has no employees. Moran explained that his property is surrounded by family farm land. Moran said that in order to obtain the N.C. inspections licenses he realized he needed Zoning clearance. Moran said there will be no junked vehicles but he would place a small sign at the road. Moran said he doesn't plan to have a dealer's license but it would be a full time business with hours 8 am - 6 pm. Moran said that the building was built for the farm. Moran said that Nobles picks up all his fluids he disposes.
There was no one present in opposition to this request.
Brown said he is familiar with this area and he didn't feel this would be a problem in this area. For this reason Brown made the motion, seconded by Craven, to approve this request for a Special Use Permit. The motion passed unanimously.
B. WALTER STALEY, Greensboro, North Carolina, is requesting a Special Use Permit to allow a Planned Unit Development for 4 residences on a 7 acre tract (3 existing and one proposed) to be located on Quaker Drive, Providence Township, Polecat Creek Watershed, Zoning District RA. Parcel ID # 7788102123.
Staley was present and explained that he currently has 3 mobile homes on the property. Staley said he lives in one mobile home, one is vacant, and one is rental. Staley said this 4th place would be for his sister-in-law a home. Staley said he has lived here for 23+ years before any of these large developments. Staley said the property has perked for this space. Staley said he has purchased a lot that backs up to this property and he may move to that property. When asked Staley said that this would not be a mobile home park. McDowell asked what he would do with the home he lives in when he moves and Staley said that he has a friend that plans to move to that home. Brown asked what else he plans for the property and Staley said nothing and he would not be back to ask for any additional spaces. McDowell asked what he plans to do with the vacant home and Staley said he plans to rent this home as he has in the past.
There was no one present in opposition to this request.
Craven said he felt personally since he has owned the property for 23+ years and his primary use for the property is for his family he felt it should be approved with the condition that no future homes would be requested. Craven made this a motion and Morton seconded the motion to approve this request for a Special Use Permit. The motion passed unanimously.
C. DONNIE CHAVIS, Franklinville, North Carolina, is requesting a Special Use Permit to allow a Planned Unit Development for 4 residences on a 6.40 acre tract (3 existing and one proposed) to be located on Fork Creek Mill Road, Richland Township, Zoning District RA. Parcel ID # 7675957223.
Chavis was present and explained that he has owned the property for 11+ years and the homes are used by him and his sons. Chavis said that this 4th home would be for a 3rd son. Chavis said in the future he and his wife plan to remove one of the homes and build a house. Chavis said that the old mobile home is being used for storage of hay and horse feed but he plans to move this mobile home off. Dorsett asked if he plans to ask for more homes in the future and Chavis answered no.
There was no one present in opposition to this request.
Dorsett said that the old storage home can't really be seen from the road and he wouldn't make it's removal a part of the conditions. Craven said he didn't have a problem with this being used for agricultural purposes. Dorsett made the motion, seconded by Craven, to approve this request for a Special Use Permit. The motion passed unanimously.
D. ROBERT THREADGILL, Ramseur, North Carolina, is requesting a Special Use Permit to allow a flower shop in a 30 x 30 building (to be constructed) to be located at his residence at 1126 Brooklyn Avenue Exit, Columbia Township, Zoning District RA. Parcel ID # 8701077348.
Ms. Threadgill said that she has been running a flower business in town for over 3 years and she now wants to move the business to her home. Threadgill said that they are currently remodeling this mobile home and they do live in this home. Threadgill said they do own property down the road but they are remodeling this home to live in. Threadgill said 80% of her business is done by phone and the building would be no larger than 30 x 30. Threadgill said that only 2 box trucks deliver to her twice a week.
Donald Easton and his wife, 1125 Brooklyn Avenue Extension, said that they own the poultry farm (they've owned this poultry farm since 1977) where the Threadgills have easement access through. Easton said that he would not be able to control the traffic that would be going through his farm and his poultry company said they are concerned for the possible contamination to their farm from this operation. Easton discussed problems with not having any help putting gravel on the road once in the 22 years the Easton's have owned the property. Easton said their house is 40' from this easement and they are concerned with the traffic possibilities. Easton said that their representatives from the poultry company are so concerned they are here tonight. Mrs. Easton discussed the noise, dust, and traffic this will create and they are concerned with the fact that they back out of their drive up to their chicken houses. Easton said that they are very careful with their poultry operation and are currently in good standing with their poultry company. Easton said that they are concerned that this may effect their livelihood. Easton said that there home and their poultry houses are this close (40') to the drive.
Dorsett asked if all 3 houses are in operation and Easton answered yes and have been for over 25 years.
Rural Daybolt, GoldKist Poultry Company, said that they are concerned with the bio-security issues for these rural farms. Daybolt said that they have approximately $8 in each bird and they are blood tested several times to insure they are in good health. Daybolt said that their concern is the access to the farm and people could come in where yard birds are and they could transmit diseases to these birds. Daybolt said they are here to ask the Board to keep this an agricultural area and limit the access to these houses. Dorsett asked if birds are found to be contaminated are all the birds killed and Daybolt described the process of testing and explained if the disease is confirmed the birds cannot be used and most be eliminated (in the entire house). Dorsett asked if the disease is found could the house be cleansed of the disease and Daybolt said it would be possible to be cleaned but they reserve the right to no longer use the houses to grow birds and the houses would be closely monitored by the State. Dorsett asked how customers to this flower shop would be more likely to bring in diseases than just people coming in casually to the farm. Daybolt said that he could not say except that they must control access to their farms. Craven asked how many farms have disease been found and Daybolt said that only 1 farm south of this area in the 3 years he has worked in this County. Craven asked wouldn't someone have to go into the house to carry the disease and Daybolt said that it could be brought in by insects, etc and due to the large blowers used in these houses it would not necessarily be carried in only by a person. Daybolt talked about how noises effect the houses and how they can pile up and smother. Craven asked about the risk of their service people to the farm bringing in disease from another farm and Daybolt said that there is this possibility but they use protective shoe, clothes, and hair covers that are disposed of between each farm. Daybolt said that people are our worst enemy in spreading diseases and therefore these operations are isolated as much as possible. Daybolt said the owners are also asked not to where the same clothes into the houses as the do to town or off somewhere. McDowell asked if they were concerned about other animals than birds and Daybolt said he didn't think other animals would be effected by a concerning disease.
There were 4 people present in opposition to this request.
Threadgill said they plan to put a hedge row along their drive between the chicken houses and their property to separate the farm from their property. Threadgill said they are planning to construct a circle drive so that the cars would only be on their property and not near the chicken houses.
Brown asked about the trucks and Threadgill said she could eliminate the trucks.
Craven asked if she delivers her flowers or are they picked up and Threadgill said she delivers them. Threadgill said in town she had maybe 3 to 4 walk-ins a day.
Craven said it would be hard to prove if the disease came in by the deliver truck or the customers.
Ridge said that this would be bringing a retail business in an agricultural area and the property doesn't have road frontage. Brown agreed.
McDowell said that the objecting party must show that the 4 test have not been met. Brown said it's not cut and dry, it is up to this Board to determine what proof is considered.
Craven said that he felt this is a small back yard operation.
Brown said he felt the no trucks should be a part of the conditions and Dorsett agreed and said he felt it should be included because of the noise. McLeod said he didn't feel a flower shop is a problem but you always feel sorry for the chicken farm and all the regulations he is required to live by.
Morton said he hated to keep her from her small business, but he hated to approve anything that could put their chicken farming in jepardy.
Craven made the motion to approve this request with the following conditions:
**hedge placed to buffer the business from the chicken farm
**no delivery trucks
**must maintain business 160' from the chicken houses
McLeod seconded this motion. Failing to obtain a 4/5 vote of approval the permit was denied. Board members Larry Brown and Phil Ridge voted against the request.
A. DEAN HARDISTER, Randleman, North Carolina, is requesting that 148.80 acres located on Racine Road, Providence Township, Polecat Creek Watershed, be rezoned from Residential Agricultural to Residential/Exclusive. Parcel ID # 7787005383. The proposed Conditional Use Zoning would specifically allow the development of a 117 lot subdivision for site built homes only with a minimum house size of 1,300 sq. ft. Property Owner: Virginia Johnson.
Dean Hardister and Jim Hoskins where present and explained that they haven't had any soil evaluations done at this time. Hardister said they did provide the proposed deed restrictions to the Planning Department. Hardister said there would be some common property owned by the Homeowners Association because the properties are not developable due to the topography and streams of the property.
Ridge asked about proposed development time and Hardister answered that it would probably be a 4 to 5 year project.
Dorsett asked about the access to the roads that have frontage on both the new roads and the existing road. Hardister said that only 2 lots would actually use the access to Racine Road, all other lots would use the new roads.
Wayne Rice, 445 Robin Lane, said that his family owns the surrounding land and he was concerned about the small house sizes and the large number of septic tanks/wells on this tract of land. For these reasons he objects to the project.
Regina Swaim, Racine Road, said they are concerned about the septic tanks and explained the hard time they had getting their land to perk. Swaim also expressed concern of the Level Cross School and how this would effect the number of students it would house. Swaim said she felt this would cause a mobile class room situation. Swaim asked about the restrictions and said she would like the Board to consider two acre tracts with larger homes.
Boyd Riley, Racine Road, said his concern is the massive build up of houses in northern Randolph County. Riley said he thought the County was trying to increase the lot sizes in this area and he would like to see less house, maybe 65 or 70 homes.
Rice said he would like to point out that if there is any contamination it would flow into the Polecat Creek Reservior.
Johnson said that the septic tank issue comes up regularly and from a Planning & Zoning stand point we look at the lot size for development and the Health Department would regulate the amount of land it would take for each individual septic tank.
There were 5 people present in opposition.
Dorsett said that he was concerned about the density being proposed in this community and he said he agreed with the type of housing but it could cause a problem with this number of homes in this area.
Brown asked Hardister if in his plans if they were considering any off-site septic systems and Hardister answered they would not have any off-site systems.
Dorsett made the motion, seconded by Brown, to recommend to the Commissioners that this request be approved. The motion passed unanimously.
B. MICHAEL HURLEY, Asheboro, North Carolina, is requesting that 1.53 acres (out of 3.99 acres) located at 120 Spring Forest Road, Tabernacle Township, Lake Reese Watershed, be rezoned to amend the current Highway Commercial/Conditional Use Zoning. Parcel ID # 7712149006. The proposed zoning amendment would a 40 x40 addition to the existing 40 x 60 building for motorcycle sales and service.
Hurley was present and said that the Board approved his business 9 years ago with a condition of no outside storage. Hurley said in order to keep his conditions he needs the extra building space for storage.
There was no present in opposition to this request.
Johnson said the Planning Department has never received a complaint on his operation.
McLeod made the motion, seconded by Craven, to recommend to the Commissioners this request be approved. The motion passed unanimously.
C. RACHEL FESMIRE AND JOYCE BROWN, Staley, North Carolina, is requesting that 24.81 acres (out of 130.50 acres) located on JC Teague Road, Columbia Township, be rezoned from Residential Agricultural to Residential Exclusive/Conditional Use. Parcel ID # 8732684775. The proposed Conditional Use Zoning would specifically allow an 11 lot subdivision for site built homes and off-frame modular homes with a minimum house size of 1,400 sq. ft.
Johnson explained that we contacted the Chatham County Planning Office and they have no problems with this request.
There was no one present in opposition to this request.
Johnson complimented the applicants for the type of housing they are proposing since so many mobile homes along this road.
Craven made the motion, seconded by McLeod, to recommend to the Commissioners that this request be approved. The motion passed unanimously.
Johnson provided background information concerning high speed rail corridors currently under consideration in the triad. Johnson said the southeast rail corridor would eventually leave Washington, D.C., through Virginian and into Raleigh. There is a possibility that one of the proposed routes might by-pass the Piedmont Triad altogether. One route would connect to Greensboro and then proceed to either Winston-Salem or High Point. Johnson asked the Planning Board to consider adopting the proposed resolution supporting the Greensboro to High Point High Speed Rail Corridor option.
Craven made the motion, seconded by Morton, to adopt this resolution. The motion passed unanimously.
9. The meeting adjourned at 8:40 p.m. There were 34 citizens present for this meeting.
Planning Director
_____________________________ __________________________
Date Clerk/Secretary


text:
MURFREESBORO, Tenn. _ Braleigh Angel went 4-for-4, drove in two runs and scored twice for Baylor, which defeated GPS 5-2 today in the TSSAA Division II-AA winners-bracket final at the Spring Fling at Starplex No. 3.
GPS (16-14) plays Pope John Paul II (15-16) at approximately 8 p.m. EDT at Starplex No. 3. The winner will play Baylor (32-7) in Friday's final.
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text:
Enterprise Fish Co. - Santa Barbara
- Address:
225 State Street
Santa Barbara, CA 93101Neighborhood:
Santa Barbara
- Cuisine:
SeafoodPrice: $31 to $50
Enterprise Fish Co. - Santa Barbara
- Dining Style: Casual Dining
- Website: http://www.enterprisefishco.com/santabarbara/fishco.html
- Phone: (805) 962-3313
- Hours of Operation:
Sunday - Thursday: 11:30am-10pm,
Friday - Saturday 11:30am-11pm
- Payment Options: AMEX,Discover,MasterCard,Visa
- Cuisine: Steak, Seafood
- Executive Chef: Bruce Choi
- Dress Code: Casual Dress
- Accepts Walk-Ins: Yes
- Additional Details: Banquet/Private Rooms, Bar Dining, Bar/Lounge, Beer, Delivery, Full Bar, Happy Hour, Non-Smoking Restaurant, Personal wines welcome, Personal wines welcome (corkage fee applies), Private Room, Takeout, Wheelchair Access, Wine
- Private Party Facilities: Semi-private locations.
A word from Enterprise Fish Co. - Santa Barbara
Just a few blocks from the waterfront, our restaurant in Santa Barbara operates in a century-old brick building originally home to an industrial linen service for seaside hotels. While the Douglas fir floors, soaring ceilings, and glassed cupola have always been features of this historic structure, the sweeping arches facing State Street were added after much of the building crumbled during the 1925 Santa Barbara earthquake.Continued
Built in 1917, the historic building now home to our Santa Monica restaurant was once a transfer station for the narrow-gauge Red Car line, Los Angeles' first mass transit system. It was later the repair house for the world-famous Pacific Ocean Park, home to the oldest wooden roller coaster west of the Mississippi. These days, we're still a stone's throw from Venice Beach, heart of where L.A. goes to play -- and eat.
Built in 1917, the historic building now home to our Santa Monica restaurant was once a transfer station for the narrow-gauge Red Car line, Los Angeles' first mass transit system. It was later the repair house for the world-famous Pacific Ocean Park, home to the oldest wooden roller coaster west of the Mississippi. These days, we're still a stone's throw from Venice Beach, heart of where L.A. goes to play -- and eat.
Foodspotting photosSee all photos
Awards voted by OpenTable diners
- Diners' Choice WinnerHot Spot
- Diners' Choice WinnerKid Friendly
- Diners' Choice WinnerVibrant Bar Scene
Enterprise Fish Co. - Santa Barbara - Best Restaurants in Santa Barbara ›
Enterprise Fish Co. - Santa Barbara reviews from OpenTable diners
65 reviews since July 31, 2014
- Food4.1Service4.2
- Ambiance3.9Noise LevelEnergetic
good for groups (30)fit for foodies (21)neighborhood gem (20)special occasion (18)hot spot (18)vibrant bar scene (17)great for lunch (17)kid-friendly (10)late-night find (8)notable wine list (7)romantic (5)great for outdoor dining (3)great for brunch (2)scenic view (1)Show More
- kasloapDined on 11/15/2014We were seated promptly. Sea bass was very good. Very noisy.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Lunch12ljeanneDined on 11/13/2014The lobster bisque was very good but the fish in the fish and chips was very bad. For $17 you would expect better from a seafood restaurant. It was dried out tilapia!. The artichoke was also not good. It was drenched in oil and burned!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Wow!jeanalmelDined on 11/11/2014Great place - lots of atmosphere, great local seafood. Service was tops!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Excellent seafoodBigBzyVIPDined on 11/10/2014Visiting the California coast, it seemed appropriate to eat at a seafood restaurant, and Enterprise did not disappoint. The irony, of course, is that because most seafood is sourced globally, the restaurant could be about anywhere. And to underscore that point, I had live Maine lobster because they had a special, and it was terrific.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Outstanding!!!!!! A++++LindaKVIPDined on 10/15/2014This is our "go to" restaurant when we come to Santa Barbara every three weeks for business. Even when we have stayed longer for conferences, we will eat multiple nights at this place. The restaurant has four keys for success. Great atmosphere, comptetative prices, fantastic food, and outstanding employees who have a sense of urgency, and treat you like family. It's worth the hour and a half drive to come up for dinner after work, and then stay overnight. We cannot say enough nice things about this restaurant and staff. Can't wait to come up again in two weeks. Eric is one of the best waiters we have ever had. The lobster special is a great deal. Ask to sit by the aquarium.Special Features:
- Enterprise Fish CompanybecarefulwhereyoudineDined on 10/10/2014The service was good. The server was fun and personable. The food, however, was hit and miss. On the 'hit' side were the tasty appetizers, drinks, and the baskets of warm bread and butter. Also, the birthday lady loved her fish tacos, so that was good! The 'misses' were the bland shoestring fries served with the dry cheeseburger, and the no-taste salmon that I was served. The cooked consistency of the salmon was good, but the salmon itself had no flavor. In addition, the clam chowder was lumpy and had no fluidity to it.Special Features:
- JSMAZJSMAZVIPDined on 10/9/2014If you live or are planning a visit to Santa Barbara, CA, you truly need to eat at this incredible restaurant! Having traveled and eaten in restaurants all over the world, this restaurant is a GREAT as it gets; tremendous menu, service, bar scene, and a wonderful beach city vibe throughout the restaurant. The Sea Bass, and claim chowder are a MUST!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Always a good choiceChrisDined on 10/8/2014If you're looking for a good seafood restaurant but don't want to pay the extremely high prices, this is you're spot. I would give this place a 4 out of 5, only because of the cheesy decorations. It's kind of like a Joe's Crab Shack inside. Good food though.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Lack luster mealGhostDined on 10/8/2014We were served each course to quickly by a server who seemed to be bored with her job. She never came back to check if we needed anything. It was just on good dining experience.
- Birthday DisappointmentOpenTable Diner Since 2014Dined on 10/4/2014We typically have excellent food here and this is our favorite restaurant, however this year's birthday celebration was a bust! We had the lobster which is always wonderful, but the swordfish was thin, dry and a terrible sauce that was sour. So disappointed!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Wife's birthday and she liked itOpenTable Diner Since 2011Dined on 10/3/2014Weekend trip to Santa Barbara for my wife's birthday planned on late notice. Friday night is busy so most places were full. We were able to get into the Enterprise Fish Market even though they were very busy. She thought the ambiance was energetic but I felt the place was noisy and touristy (what else do you expect near the wharf). The crab cakes were very good... mostly crab with no filler! The grilled Brussel sprouts were also very tasty. My wife loved her cioppino. My halibut was a disappointment as it was very dry. My wife like the restaurant very much, which is most important because it was her birthday.
- no funky seafood after-tasteOpenTable Diner Since 2014Dined on 9/29/2014I didn't know the Enterprise had such good food! Came with a party of 6, no wait for food, and good service. Most of us hadn't been there in years (20 years, for me) don't know if they have a new chef, or what, but the seafood was insane, from the skewered scallops (a generous portion, of well sized scallops) to the fish, super flavorful. The Best Boston Clam chowder I perhaps, have EVER had. The salad eaters were totally jealous. salads were standard (packaged croutons). I also loved the thick sliced, warm, sourdough, but the girl from South Dakota wasn't into it so much. I don't know if that was a regional preference or not.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- santa barbara gemseabDined on 9/28/2014We found this restaurant a few years ago when visiting in Santa Barbara, and have made numerous return trips. We live in So Cal and have also been to the Santa Monica location since it is closer to our home. We have taken friends and relatives to the Santa Monica location, and they have all walked out satisfied. We were in Santa Barbara this past weekend, made reservations for 6:45, but arrived at 6:15, and were seated immediately. Much praise for the staff. Only wished they served sand dabs!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Great placeMrsIceCreamDined on 9/26/2014This place is a very cute restaurant that's always busy, and very delicious. My husband and I have chosen this place to celebrate birthdays, new jobs, and just a random date night, and we haven't ever been disappointed. The server may be busy due to the amount of customers, so he or she might not be able to check up on you as often as you'd like, but the workers are extremely friend, the food's fantastic, and it has a vibrant, energetic feel. I'd recommend making a reservation, as it tends to get crowded.Special Features:
- Seafood in Santa BarbaraMikeDined on 9/19/2014Very good restaurant in downtown Santa Barbara for seafood. I highly recommend the lobster bisque. It's worth the trip just for that! I also had the parmesan halibut which was fresh from Alaska. Very tasty. This restaurant is noisy and crowded, which is not surprising for a popular restaurant.Special Features:
- OpenTable Diner Since 2010Dined on 9/19/2014Our favorite fish restaurant in Santa Barbara. We are from Los Angeles and go to SB at least twice a year. Always eat at this restaurant both nights we are in SB. Never disappoints. Dover sole is to die for. Tianne and Eric are absolutely the best waiters we have ever had in any restaurant.Special Features:
- Nice LunchSB4diningVIPDined on 9/18/2014Have not been to the Enterprise in a long time (don't know why) but I was very happy we rediscovered it. They have an extensive menu, something for everyone. We had the chowder and it was great! I see they have lunch specials, which looked great, although no one at our table ordered from that section. The Shrimp and Crab Louie was a very generous portion. Three of us ended up taking to go containers - so that tells you they have ample portions. We will definitely go back soon!Special Features:
- WONDERFULTravelloverDined on 9/17/2014We had a wonderfull time at Enterprise Fish and Co. From the food (lobster and tuna) tom the service, everything was great! I hightly recommend it.Special Features:
- good but not greattryingitallDined on 9/13/2014Everything at the table was good. No complaints, not fabulous, but good. Service was excellent, prompt with everything, cleared tables quickly. Was not a bad experience, but do not feel the need to go back again.
- Just greatOpenTable Diner Since 2007Dined on 9/13/2014I drive 50 miles to eat at your restaurant...that should say enough. Keep doing what you are doing. It is working. the food is wonderful.Special Features:
- RetiredBlackieDined on 9/2/2014This was a trip for our 35th anniversary. It was the third restaurant we tried in Santa Barbara. If we had gone to Enterprise first we wouldn't have seen the others. We are already planning a train trip from the Long Beach area for dinner at Enterprise. The food was beyond outstanding, the service fantastic and the ambiance was really nice. Great place. Highly recommend it.Special Features:
- KAS1VIPDined on 8/30/2014Terrific fish tacos. Overall a very nice seafood meal.I would recommend this to a friend.
- My favorite seafood restaurant inSBNamwhanDined on 8/27/2014Great seafood selections, deliciously prepared, reasonably priced in a lovely, lively restaurant conveniently located in downtown Santa Barbara with excellent staff who are friendly, attentive, and on-the-ball.Special Features:
- Classic SB Seafood RestaurantPedalandChewDined on 8/25/2014I've been coming to the Enterprise my whole life, and it was a special joy to introduce my wife to it when we visited SB this weekend. We had delicious oysters, lobster, swordfish and salmon, all fresh, all beautifully prepared, and served in a friendly, lively atmosphere. It's a great hidden gem that's good for tourists and locals alike, located right downtown in the midst of everything.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Disappointing visit....fsp4Dined on 8/24/2014We go to Enterprise very often but Sunday was a disappointment. We have noticed that it gets uncomfortably warm when the restaurant is crowded...and it was. In addition, we ordered the ahi tuna which we had to send back. It was overcooked and rubbery....a first at Enterprise. Enterprise is one of our go-to places in Santa Barbara and we will return.
- Surprisingly good foodPattyDined on 8/23/2014We went to Enterprise because we were looking for a historical spot with seafood to meet friends up from the San Fernando Valley. What a great surprise! Gorgeous old building. Fun decor, very well done. We were there early and had a reservation so we were very happy with our table. Not all of the seating is desirable. Tables very close together, lively bar scene and a fairly high noise level. We were good because of the table we had away from the bar and in a window. We had the Ceviche, oysters on the half shell, swordfish, Cioppino and the Dover Sole. Everyone was more than happy with their food. The sole was perfect and the grilled vegetables excellent. We will go back.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- $32 Lobster!chowdownDined on 8/20/2014Enterprise offers the best value for seafood in Santa Barbara. I've heard that people rave about the happy hour appetizers and drinks here but only feel the food is only mediocre. I disagree. While the seafood is not fancy (don't expect heavy sauces or delicate preparation), it is fresh and reasonably priced. If you stick with the basics and appreciate simple, grilled seafood, then you will enjoy the food here. My favorites are the basa swai and swordfish, and you can never go wrong with the lobster or king crab. Also, you can't beat the weekday special of 2 lb. lobster for $32.Special Features:
- JaneJaneDined on 8/20/2014The food was outstanding at this seafood restaurant. The appetizers and soup were completely delicious. And the entrees (swordfish and Dover sole) were exquisitely fresh and prepared with some serious skill. Loved it!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- LOUDJudeKDined on 8/15/2014We went on a Friday night which was probably our mistake. We had reservations so we were seated immediately, fortunately. Getting into the restaurant through the bar crowd was difficult. We were seated with a view of the kitchen which my husband enjoyed as he is the cook in the family. Conversation was impossible because of the noise. I had the lobster bisque soup which was great! The rest of our meal was just so so. My risotto was gummy. The best part of the whole time we were there was the waitress-she was charming! There was no parking other than on the street about 3 blocks away. It was a difficult walk for my husband who has a bad back.Special Features:
- Excellent seafoodrbsbDined on 8/11/2014We were traveling up the California central coast and I picked this place when we were in Santa Barbara because it seemed to have the more extensive seafood list when compared to some of the other waterfront restaurants. Enterprise did not disappoint. We were seated right away. Our food and wine was excellent. I had the halibut and it was the best seafood dish I had on our trip. The family was also impressed with their desserts.Special Features:
- Fresh fish and good sideMarlaPRDined on 8/11/2014Favorite location but hard to find parking!! Food is good and love the fish cooked over wood.Special Features:
- Magnificent diningHeartHealthyDiningDined on 8/7/2014The lobster was delicious and would recommend it for the sea food lover. Especially tasty was the baked potato with the works. Looking forward to next visit.Special Features:
- OpenTable Diner Since 2007VIPDined on 8/5/2014very nice seafood place with expansive menu.Good choice while in Santa BarbaraSpecial Features:
- Great sea foodOpenTable Diner Since 2013Dined on 7/31/2014Excellent service and very good sea food Complicate to arrive, confuse Really recommendedSpecial Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- The following 435 reviews are from the Enterprise Fish Co. - Santa Barbara reviews archive.
- I recommend EnterpriseDallasiteDined on 7/28/2014Was plenty packed, but that added to the ambience. Good menu for seafood lovers , but also had a number of entrees for non- fish eaters. My ciopino was as good as I've had. Servers did a good job of keeping up, even in a tough crowd.Special Features:
- On Fire Restaurant- SUPERBLannyDined on 7/28/2014This restaurant has it all- great food-great service- great drinks- great atmosphere- Make reservations if after 6:30- Happy Hour is gracious and offers superb savings on appetizers in the BAR! OUTSTANDING!!Special Features:
- Great but priceythebestinLAVIPDined on 7/19/2014i'm no stranger to the term MARKET PRICE, but, when three people order the crab legs, a small portion i'll add, although it was very delicious, it was a little shocking to see that that slab of crab was $60, times 3. $180 for 3 orders of crab legs. the server was really rude and i suggested when an item is almost 3 times the price of any other menu item, it would be a nice gesture to warn the customer. but i was just told "well, you didn't ask so i didn't tell you. next time ask if you want to know" which was the most communication we had with him the entire night. i'll probably not return as i can spend $300 someplace that will appreciate the money more. this place didn't seem to care.Special Features:
- Great serviceGr8TimeDined on 7/17/2014Overall, we had a good experience, only issue was to re-fire a not so warm crab cake, lobster presentation was great, service was on point.Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- Lobster special1davidtDined on 7/16/2014Really enjoyed the lobster special. Services was awesome!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.
- What a nice birthday lunchdoctorVIPDined on 7/15/2014We frequent and enjoy the Enterprise often and have for years. The setting by the window is so pleasant and the bar scene is vibrant. I love the crab Louie....the best I have had in the area. Our server was lovely and professional. At the end of this birthday lunch with my mom our server surprised me with an incredible mud pie desert complete with candle. Highly recommend this restaurant!!!Special Features:I would recommend this to a friend.


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Search for Dylan Redwine in La Plata County turns up several clues
300 people searched between Durango and Vallecito
DURANGO, Colo. - Authorities say a weekend search for a missing 13-year-old boy in southwestern Colorado has turned up several clues.
The La Plata County Sheriff's Office says about 300 people searched an area between Durango and Vallecito on Saturday for clues in the disappearance of Dylan Redwine.
The search covered 60 linear miles.
Investigators say that of dozens of items flagged by searchers, 10 were collected for future reference in the case.
Dylan was reported missing Nov. 19 and was last seen wearing a black T-shirt and a "Duke Blue Devils" baseball cap. The boy's father, Mark Redwine, says he left his son at his Vallecito-area home while he ran errands.
Dylan lives with his mother in Colorado Springs but was visiting his dad for Thanksgiving as part of a court order. Authorities don't believe the boy ran away.
Anyone who may have information on Dylan's whereabouts are asked to contact La Plata County Sheriff's Office Investigators Dan Patterson (970-382-7015) or Tom Cowing (970-382-7045).