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Chrebet Reflections on the Parcells PersonaPosted by on February 3, 2013 – 4:53 pm
Bill Parcells will be dressed to the nines tonight as he waves and smiles at the Superdome crowd and NFL Nation during his introduced along with his Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2013 mates. He'll look every bit like your favorite football uncle or professor, friendly and knowledgeable and ready to help out.
And just think that before Gordon Ramsay, Anthony Melchiorri and Anne Burrell, Parcells already had established his own reality series as the new sheriff from hell — or was it heaven? — for so many pro football players who passed through his neck of the woods.
Parcells was hardly the first rough, tough, son-of-a-gun pro football coach. But he was one of the best at rolling the good cop and the bad cop all into one larger-than-life persona. And that's one of the reasons he's in the Hall of Fame tonight.
"The thing about Bill was he kept you on your toes," Wayne Chrebet, Jets fans' favorite wideout, reminisced with me late Saturday night about his on-field boss with the Green & White from 1997-99. "You're walking around the complex and he's coming down the hallway toward you and you really don't know what to say. You're looking down and he'd say, 'Don't worry, kid. We'll get 'em.' He'd extend that hand and pick you up. You're smiling and he'd say, 'What are you so happy about?'
"He kept you on your toes. He never let you relax. And he always got the best out of you."
Aaron Glenn, who played corner on Parcells' Jets those same years and then two more years for the Cowboys, had a similar story to tell.
"He had these mind games he always played on me," AG said. "He'd say I was too small. He'd say I couldn't cover the best receivers in the game. I used to think, if he thinks I couldn't cover those guys, why'd he match me up against those guys in the games? I wanted to show him what I could do."
Parcells, who I remember more than a few times denying that he played mind games with his players, let alone us reporters, had a number of favorite tactics to get through to "his guys" as well as the guys who were his for the moment on whatever team he was resurrecting.
"I remember as a rookie," Curtis Martin recalled of the roots of his trademark ball security, "I fumbled the ball a couple of times in training camp and Bill made me carry that ball for, like, a week straight. I wasn't allowed to be caught without the ball. When I was eating lunch or dinner or in meetings, I had the ball in one hand. He told the entire team to knock it out of my hands whenever they saw me. I was penalized if they were able to knock it out. That attention made me focus on the ball. It was a huge part of my game, to the level that giving up the ball was letting my team down."
There was the time, Chrebet recalled, dusting off a classic Parcells-ism, that he told No. 80, "Hey, Chrebet, your career's going over a cliff like a dumptruck with a cement parachute." There was that other time, early in '98, when Wayne suffered a bad ankle sprain going out of bounds and jumping rope with the chain crew on the sideline. And a week later Bill came by to check on Wayne as he was rehabbing the injury — by kicking him in the ankle.
"It hurt enough without him kicking it," Chrebet said, "I looked at him like 'You've got to be kidding me. What's wrong with you?' But even at the moment, I couldn't be mad at him. He was just making sure I was really hurt."
He wasn't mad, but he got some classic Tuna payback late in the '98 season as the Jets headed for the playoffs and their highest points of the Parcells regime.
"My family was Jets fans, of course, but they were diehard Giants fans," Chrebet reminisced one more time for me. "It was '86. I would've been 13 years old. And I'm watching and thinking it's the coolest thing in the world when Harry Carson's got on the yellow jacket and he sneaks up behind Parcells and dumps the Gatorade on him. I said I want to do that, and I want to do it to Bill, too. It was a pipe dream at the time."
Then as events sometimes unfold, Chrebet got his chance. He doesn't remember which game it was (maybe the win over New England in the regular-season finale?), but he was on the sideline late in the game and he said the thought struck him: "I'm gonna get this guy for all the stuff he gave me all year. I'm gonna douse this guy with Gatorade."
"And he laughed. He took it. He wasn't upset. He loved every part of it," Chrebet said, no doubt looking at the Parcells-autographed photo of the prank hanging on the wall of his den. "He was just part of the team. He was right in our circle. He brought us all together."
There were lots of other elements to the Parcells persona, naturally: Bill's fierce, feisty competitiveness, his cadre of selfless assistants who implemented his one-voice philosophy, his attention to all the details in all the meeting rooms.
It all came together to produce wonderful results. Teams that hadn't been winning started winning again. The Giants, Patriots, Jets, Cowboys, even the Dolphins whom he finished up with as team president, did better than they had been once he arrived.
And most of the players, especially "Bill's Guys," all sounded variations on the theme of what he meant to them.
Martin, as he was approaching his Hall enshrinement last year: "I know I wouldn't be in this position I'm in had I not listened to him."
Glenn: "He once told me, 'I challenged you. I knew what you had and I wanted to get the best out of you.' That's something he can do with any player at any level."
Giants great Lawrence Taylor to ESPNNewYork.com on Saturday: "If I'd played for another coach on another team, I probably would've been a good player. But Bill was the one who made me LT."
"Somebody told me that if Bill doesn't mess with you, you're in trouble," Chrebet said. "He messed with me a lot. We were both Jersey guys and he busted my chops. The good thing was you could fire back at him a little bit, but you knew your limits. But I wanted to coached, Bill knew everything that was going on, and everybody bought into it. This guy came in and I'm like, 'I'm glad you're here. I'm ready to win.' "
For these reasons and many others, we'll get to see Bill Parcells holding forth one more time from the field on Super Bowl Sunday.
Tags: Aaron Glenn, Bill Parcells, Curtis Martin, Lawrence Taylor, New Orleans, Pro Football Hall of Fame, Superdome, Wayne Chrebet
Posted in Randy Lange | 243 Comments »
243 Responses
to "Chrebet Reflections on the Parcells Persona"
By Jack on Feb 3, 2013 | Reply
Really happy to see that Bill Parcells to heading to the HOF, I just wish that he would had stayed on with the Jets for another year or two more as the head coach. Parcells by far was the Jets best head coach Jets ever had even know he didn't get the Jets to a Superbowl. He was one game away of taking the Jets to the Super Bowl with a 12-4 Season Jets never win that many games in Jets history. Jets win 11 games went they win the SB, in 1969.
By Nicholas Delahanty on Feb 3, 2013 | Reply
As a huge Chrebet fan, this was a great story to hear! When the news broke of Parcells being inducted, I instantly thought of Wayne, knowing that Bill had a big impact on him! Great to see such a tremendous coach and person go into the Hall of Fame!
By scjoe on Feb 3, 2013 | Reply
A wise man once said, "defense wins championships" anyone know who that guy was? Wonder if he happened to watch SB XLVll?
By Jet Fan Since '64 Ready for the New QB on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
Ravens almost threw that game away, folks, played badly on O, D, and ST in the 2nd half. BALHar made a huge mistake throwing on 3rd and 2 without a commitment to go for it on 4th and 2. You take up 5 1/2 minutes of the clock vs SF's O with that score and you better put up a TD, not a FG. Because they took the FG instead of 2 shots for 2 yds, the game stayed close and if it wasn't for a typically dirty Raven CB play in the end zone that for some reason the refs didn't call, SF wins. Great 1st half, terrible 2nd half, BAL can definitely be beaten within a yr or 2 even by us if we revamp the O and keep building strength on D. Probably only if Rex goes, though, since if this was the Jets we woulda been up on SF 10-6 at the half and lost 31-17.
By carl on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
chrebet and martain the only jerseys i wear, With Pride!!!!!!! Go Faster Jets!!!!!!!
By SCfromNY on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
Well no place else to put them so I have a few SB observations as relates to the Jets. Does anyone here except karan think that if surrounded by the talent on either team Sanchez could have come anywhere close to the 2 QBs performances. You need a really good QB to win big games. Yes during the year you can win some games with a "game manager" But you don't get to the SB without a really good QB. Defenses matter, BUT in big games it's the offense that needs to come up big. Play calling is very important. The 49ers play calling at the end of the half and last possetion were suspect. Too slow at the end of the half and Kap. smoked the D on the edge and not 1 play called at the end of the game to take advantage of that.
By Jersey Rich on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
The years that Parcells was with the Jets were Good Ones. Things always seemed to be in control. Most Jets fans were glad to have him for those years, and hold him in high regard. Congratulations Coach Parcells!!
By GaryC on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
those who knock the old days and you know who you are,see,if they played the games at 2.30 in the afternoon on a bright sunny day,a blackout would of been impossible,Bradshaw to Swann over Marc Washington,Namath handing to Snell over the left side,Garo attempting to be a quarterback,beautiful times.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Ready for the New QB on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
That wise man hasn't been watching pro football for at least a decade, scjoe. In the 1st half, SF's D looked like it's ready for Revis ASAP and Whitner looked about as good as when LT faked him off his feet. But in the 2nd half, Lewis, Reed, Ngati, and all these alleged greats looked about as tough as Bellore, Smith, and Pouha as SF moved against them at will. The Crabtree play will be argued about forever but suffice to say that for the Ravens' "awesome D" to luck out that way tells you just how much "defense wins championships" all by itself these days. You could just as easily say that refs who don't want the game to hinge on a goal-line penalty win championships — or maybe they were evening it up for the NE playoff game last yr…
By Jet Fan Since '64 Ready for the New QB on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
A blackout would be impossible even now if we lived in a country that was being remotely realistic about its energy needs and resources, GaryC. I guess we Americans won't get it until all of our precious iPhones and iPads go out all at once. As I said in a far more scathing post that Randy didn't print, it's a good thing for certain people in D.C. that Steven Chu resigned last Friday.
By Frank on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
When Parcells showed up he completely changed the culture surrounding this team and started it on a great run ending in Rex's run to the AFC Championship games. Unfortunately Rex has destroyed all of that with all the bad personell moves and hirings bringing this team closer to the Kotite years again.
As I predicted last week Flacco exposed the 49ers opening the door to an Alex Smith and a draft choice for Revis trade I believe both of their salaries should be around the same for 2013 however we would want to restructure his deal anyway. Smith would be a great fit for Marty ball.
By Byrdman on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
For me names like Chrebet, Parcells, Martin, Keyshawn, Testaverde, will always be linked together. Bill manged to get the maximum performance out of an undersized, un-drafted wide-out from a local college. He motivated and focused a superbly gifted young RB to acheive greatness. He tuned an aging, interception prone, strong armed QB into an effective game-manager who could unleash the big play when needed.
Parcells once placed an empty gas can beside a players locker with a brief note "Think you've been running out of gas late in games" CLASSIC !
Hope the Parcells years in NY don't end up being the "Glory Days" Bruce Springsteen sang of.
By Byrdman on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
Randy – After Joe Flacco won last night it occurred to me that QB's with the first name Joseph have more SB rings than any other single name ?!?!
Maybe Jets should scout and draft another "Joe" What do you think?
Is there something special about that name?
By GaryC on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
here is a guy who could present Parcells,what about Bobby Knight,they both coached at Army and are friends,how is that for a shocker.
By scjoe on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
64, you will still here your share of "critics" right here on this site, swearing to the fact that defense "wins championships" that any "game manager" at the QB position can win a championship with a great defense. They will talk about the "Steel Curtain", the "Purple People Eaters" the "Fearsome Foursome" The "Doomsday Defense" heck, even the "NY Sack Exchange" Well, that was then, this is now! Now, you win championships with "great QB play" and an offense that can actually move the ball consistently and put points on the board. By the way, aside from the "Steel Curtain" who had a pretty decent QB,how many SB wins collectively, do the others have?
By scjoe on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, I knew Parcells and Knight were buds, but Parcells has another friend too, Mike Francesca! How about him?
By GaryC on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
scjoe,might have to change your Moniker to 'SIMPLISTIC SCJOE",seeing that no other reason then Flacco did the ravens win.Jacoby Jones,Boldin,the offensive line,and if you think Eli was great in those two super bowl wins,review the tapes,unless great is lessened to back your argument.
By GaryC on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
scjoe,you left out the killer bees who won two straight super bowls.
By GaryC on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
I guess Flacco has reached that pantheon of eliteness that few can say they belong too,like Joe Theismann,Trent Dilfer,Brad Johnson,great quarterbacks all.
By Mike Jet Vet on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
As a coach I'm all in for Parcells, Very good…. as a Man he had no loyalty to any team, his loyalty was Money . After leaving Giants, he went on a world wind tour looking for any team willing to pay him more than the previous team. He took the Jets Job for 2 years he got us were we needed to be then leaves us hanging, Same with NE and Miami Never finishing what he started .. Sorry I have no respect for his Loyalty he has none.. Coaching Yes.. Lets not forget his famous words of wisdom if you want me to cook the dinner I need to shop for the groceries… and pick the pockets of his owners
By Jet Fan Since '64 Ready for the New QB on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
Right, scjoe, the Purple People Eaters and the Fearsome Foursome had a grand total of ZERO Super Bowl wins, which makes even the Chiefs' and the Jets' track record look good.
By IRA on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
Think SF would have loved to have Revis last night covering Boldin. I would take Smith and a pick or two but as long as Sanchez is on the books the Jets can't afford the two of them that's too much money put into the QB position. I expect a cheaper option. Now if Idzik can work some magic he can make something happen.
Good SB and the blackout had a lot to do with it. I feel Balt lost its edge with Flacco and the offense off the field for close to one and a half hours made a big difference. Otherwise this game had the makings of a 42-20 game.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Ready for the New QB on Feb 4, 2013 | Reply
Here's the cheaper option at QB, Ira: Idzik tells Sanchez, "If you don't rework your deal with us for the privilege of sitting on the bench all year unless you magically turn into an entirely new man next summer, I can guarantee you that you'll sit on the bench all year unless you cut that $8.25 mil down to almost nothing."
By scjoe on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, the "killer bees" won 2 straight SBs? And here I thought you were a history buff! Correction, the "killer bees" comprised of Kim Bokamper Doug Betters, Bud Brown, Bob Brudzinski, Lyle & Glenn Blackwood, John Bosa, Jay Brophy etc. Played long after any Dolphin SB win. None of those players were on the roster in 73 and 74, those back to back SB wins you are referring to. So, in actuality the "killer bee" defense won zilch, zero, nada, nothing! That said, Bob Griese, who was a pretty decent QB did win a SB or two.
By scjoe on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
OOPS, forgot Bob Baumhower!
By scjoe on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, OK, lets take the play of Joe Flacco completely out of the equation, lets pretend he had a Mark Sanchez type of a game, now, I ask you, who wins the game?
By GaryC on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
scjoe,maybe Parcells will have joint presenters,Francesca and Tannenbaum.
By Frank on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
Ira, Smiths contract number for 2013 is 7.5 mil and if I am not mistaking that is the same for Revis this can work if Idzik gets serious about it. This is no different than when Cutler was available several years ago a franchise QB available in his prime is rare and we have to take advantage of that. Smiths red zone numbers are off the charts significatly better than Koepernicks and that hurt the 49ers in the end.
Smith can throw AND run which is perfect for Marty ball we need to make this happen. I think this Sanchez talk is just that I think they are trying to prop him up to try and trade him. How in gods name can they march Sanchez out on the field next year? No one except you will show up and they won't sell a ticket.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
Gary C, SCJoe must have missed Jacboy Jones 109 yard return for a TD & his TD catch where Flacco threw a duck that Jones had to stop catch get up & make 2 guys miss to get to the endzone. He also missed Aquan Boldin physically dominating the 49ers corners & still making catches of balls that Flacco forced to him that should have never been thrown cause he was covered glue. Bodlin is so strong he was making grabs with guys drapped all over him. Plus the o line that kept the 49ers away from Flacco who I dont think got sacked at all.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
Gary C, Yes Flacco has reached that pantheon of eliteness he was this years 14th ranked QB either now half the league is ELITE or I am missing something. FYI that Flacco guy has a career high of 25 TD passes. Meanwhile our teams QB Sanchez has a career high of 26 TD passes. But yes Flacco is now ELITE!
By Tom Spicer on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
I dont understand all this talk of "oh we cant take a QB at 9 none of them should go that high" Everyone thought Miami reached for Tanehill last year at 8. Do you see anyone saying that now? If Geno Smith is there you take him & if you think Mike Glennon is the answer at QB than yea you take him at 9 to. Cause years from now if they work out guys will be saying "oh I cant beliieve all these teams passed up Geno Smith & Mike Glennon. The point of the post is this if you are taking a good QB there is no such thing as taking him to early!
By Tom Spicer on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
There is a 3 part story on nyjetscap.com where it shows a proposal. That if we cut Jason Smith, Bart Scott, Eric Smith, Tim Tebow, Calvin Pace & Pouha. Than it talks about restructuring Mangold, Harris, Cromartie, Holmes & Sanchez (the Holmes & Sanchez parts make it so we can still get rid of them at the end of the season). At the end of it it shows us going from $26,000,000 over the cap to $29,000,000 under the cap. Some of these restructures seem like real possibiliys to. So the bottom line is this 1 our cap situation is not as bad as guys make it out to be the real problem is the O. Also the fact that this proves it can be done & in 1 year!
By Ronbo19 on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
tom64,loved your comments above concerning cell phones. i have a really close friend who cant get enough of yacking on his cell phone(basically has it permanently attached to his ear?) Never occurs to him how rude it is too constantly ignore the guys he's playing golf with to talk about nothing on his phone? Fortunately, we love him anyway, but your point is well recieved here. IRA's right about Alex Smith, no way Jets can afford his $8 million price tag, plus giving up draft pisks to get him? Besides, he's basically another "game mgr" & havn't we all had enough of that? MIKE JET VET, loved you thought on Parcells. Great coach, great at getting teams back on track, lousey at seeing things through to the end.
By GaryC on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
Okay Scjoe,you got me on a technacallity,I will give you that one,but it still was great defense with Manny Fernandez,Denherder,Scott and Anderson.
By GaryC on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
scjoe,did Sanchez win four playoff games that were his typical game also or I guess they were figments of the imagination.
By GaryC on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
Tom Spicer,you and me are in the same ballpark,very good or elite or whatever adjective you want to add lasts as long as your last pass.
By Mike Jet Vet on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
Tom64, your opinion comes up big at times. not so big on others, for instance , Your Theory on Sanchez…..Stating if you don't agreed in cutting your pay by $8 million plus. punishment will be .. We'll give you it as a present. Really? come on man I'm hoping our New GM has more imagination and smarts. Don't you
By scjoe on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
SPICER, SCJOE DID NOT MISS ANYTHING!!! Are you trying to say the the 100 yard kickoff return was the "sole" reason the Ravens won the game? Are you trying to say that kick return went way beyond what Flacco (the MVP of the game) did? Sounds like sour grapes to me.
By scjoe on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
by the way spicer, if that had been your guy, sanchez, 80% of those passes would have been "ducks" along with a pick or two. that tells you all you need to know about QB play and winning and losing.
By GaryC on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
I do not understand all this love of Parcells as a jet coach,Even Rexy got us to the championship game more then Parcells did,the best thing Parcells did was bring Curtis Martin.I guess absence does make the heart grow fonder,If Rex is king bloviator,Parcells was the junior version.
By scjoe on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
spicer, garyC, and others who doubt the importance of QB play, this is an article from cimini today, I will cut and paste especially for you…1. All about the quarterbacks: Unlike the Jets, who have coached around Mark Sanchez for the better part of four years, the Ravens and 49ers made Joe Flacco and Colin Kaepernick the focal point of their respective offenses. They weren't game managers, they were game changers! I am not saying that cimini has ALL of the answers, just that that is the general consensus, like it or not!
By kleckofan on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
I agree to some degree about Bill having "travelin' shoes" (Elvin Bishop), BUT he is not the one that "left us hangin'", that would be Mr Belichick. Parcells had lined up a successor, but Kraft and Belichick had already done their back stabbing. Their ethics has been less than exemplary since.
JFT64 I have said before that we should give Sanchez an ultimatum: restructure or be cut. I understand that if we cut him the cap hit is larger and he could take the money and run, BUT if he has a shread of pride left he will see that if the Jets outright cut him it will send every other team the message that he is unsalvageable and selfish and he'll never play another down in the NFL. I've called him a lot of things, cont
By kleckofan on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
but he comes from a solid working class family and I think there is some dignity there. It was not his fault he was treated like a king. And this is no bluff, no restructure, cut him. We can make due w/o him and the money.
Spice- the article you mention only backs up my point about how the Colts dealt w outrageous dead cap money this yr and made it work anyway; sometimes you have to be creative and/or bite the bullett (no pun, the Colts cut Bullitt).
Klecko not being in the HOF is just like Gil Hodges not being in, even worse! And I'm not biased LOL
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting for the New QB on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
Good pt on Revis-for-Smith-and-picks is like a 2nd version of Cutler-for-Revis, Frank, though I think Cutler's way better than Smith. I wasn't for that Cutler deal 'cause we were close but now that we're not even close to close, I don't rule out getting Smith, though I'd rather build thru the draft and write off next yr completely. Problem is Woody got himself a SB at home for 2014 but didn't pay attention to how we couldn't score pts with the worst HC for O and worst starting QB in the NFL. But you're wrong about one thing, Frank: Ira AND Karan will show up next yr even if Sanchez starts. They'd probably call that loyalty, I call it settling for crumbs.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting for the New QB on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
Nice to see you being aggressive about making changes at the QB position, Spicer, no one can say that you don't take action once you've seen the light!
By 40 year fan , John on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
The greatest coach in NFL history ….He should have been in there last year …
By 40 year fan , John on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
Still think we could make a money deal for Stafford , with a trade ..And get Larry Fitzgerald here too ..We could talk Tony Gonzalez into one more year . Alex Smith would never make it in the AFC east ..
By 40 year fan , John on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
I would consider cutting Sanchez from The Jets ….If we can't trade him . I would restructure his contract , and then trade him … Tebow I would cut ..We need to make cuts on the O line as well …And cuts at linebacker . Get rid of Santonio Holmes , we could make a trade .
By 40 year fan , John on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
The Parcells Jets was the best run Jets organization I ever saw .
By Ronbo19 on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
SPICER, A couple of us here posted we would prefer to not spend a top 10 pick on a Q.B. this year.I would be one of those in that group.#1, there are no Q.B's rated anywhere near the top 10 in this draft. If Andrew Luck or R.G 3 were available I would be all for that.I cant speak for others here but I am all about building a team that can contend for years to come.Unlike the 09,2010 editions that fell off the face of the earth the past 2 years as we lost a few key pieces.If you look at teams like the Pats, ravens,Steelers & others they are at least playoff contenders every year. As Tanny's failures clearly point out you dont get there by winging it by the seat of your pants every year like we did with Brett Farve & Tim Tebow.How did-
By Ronbo19 on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
cont- those & other quick fixes like Holmes, Sanchez,& the too many other's Tanny drafted or brought in work out? Hey, there are some really highly rated O.linemen, OLB's & T.E's out there in this draft. All I'm suggesting is we dont rush off half informed and reach for a guy simply because he plays a posisition(in this case Q.B) we need. I dont know if you took the time to research any of the Q.B's I mentioned earlier, but mabey if we lock up the O.L. or defence this year we can get our franchise Q.B next year and surround him with the w.r, & r.b talent as well as protect him with an O.L ready for prime time next year?Like I keep saying, I'm in it for the long haul.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting for the New QB on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
I must not have said it right on a Sanchez contract, Spicer, so I'll spell it out plainly: I'd tell him if he insists on keeping that huge contract we stupidly gave him, he's not getting off the bench all yr. But if he reworks the contract to a fraction of what it's worth, we'll let him compete for the starting job, which I know he'd lose to just about anyone. Ronbo, it's not just the cell phones that bug me but the clueless attitude people have about where the energy to power them is coming from. Read Senator Lisa Murkowski's statements on how people take energy for granted until it's not there, like on Sunday, then suddenly wanna know where the heck it is. Kind of like what Pacino told Ellen Barkin about people and cops in SEA OF LOVE…
By scjoe on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, Question….Why is it, from your point of view, Mark Sanchez, as the QB "took the team" to 4 playoff games, but yet you refuse to give credit to those QBs who actually "take" their teams to the SB win it, and are proclaimed MVP in the process?? What am I missing?
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting for the New QB on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
klecko, I like your rework-or-be-cut ultimatum to Sanchez even better! And I saw that Cimini piece too, scjoe, and I focused in on exactly what you did. Anybody with a brain shoulda been able to see that Rex's coaching around Sanchez was ridiculous, which is why I started complaining about it big-time after we lost the PIT game. By the next yr, when we couldn't even snap the ball vs the Ravens, the whole thing was becoming a joke…
By scjoe on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
kleckofan, couldn't agree more about Klecko! Why he is not in the HOF is a complete mystery to me. Same can be said about Mark Gastineau, off the field jerk notwithstanding!
By scjoe on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, re: Bill Parcells. He didn't just take the team to the championship game, he completely changed the culture from the 1-15 Rich Kottite era, a laughing stock,to an era of being competitive. And he did it in one off season, which to me proves it can be done again, with someone who has the wit of a Bill Parcells.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
"Are you trying to say the the 100 yard kickoff return was the "sole" reason the Ravens won the game?" No I am not saying that & you know I would never say that. "Are you trying to say that kick return went way beyond what Flacco (the MVP of the game) did?" Um no I am pointing out the difference making plays that Jones & Boldin made with there physical abilities that can not be denied. "Sounds like sour grapes to me" How exactly is that sour grapes? Sour grapes is something that someone who is wrong has. It was proven without a shadow of a doubt that you can 100% win the Super Bowl without a ELITE QB. So I was right 100% right! If this was not proven may I ask you where is JOE CAPS. How did 3 of the 6 ELITE QBS not even make the playoffs?
By Tom Spicer on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
How did Joe Flacco the 14th ranked QB win the Super Bowl? Is there now 14th ELITE QBS instead of 6? No there is not Flacco out of good OL Jersey & tiny little Delaware is the Super Bowl CHAMP!
By GaryC on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
what is the over under of Jim Harbaugh suffering Dick Vermeil burnout.
By GaryC on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
Scjoe and JetFantom,just wondering what you guys would of thought of Broadway Joe carousing on his Saturday nights with the playboy bunnies while you guys were in the stands freezing at Shea Stadium the following day hoping for a jet win,I mean a little more time in the playbook on those Saturday nights might have led to less of those four and five interception games and more wins.
By kleckofan on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
scjoe and spice- in the AFC Chapionship game this yr the Broncos had two special teams TD's and lost. I think that says that Flacco overcome some adversity and earned the win. I think in the playoffs he had 11 TD's and zero picks. The guy is Milquetoast to me, but he sure got it done when it counted.
I think many are underestimating Smith, at the time of his injury he had the highest completion % and best passer rating; system, system, system, coaching, coaching, coaching. When you're coming from Sanchez the bar is pretty darn low!
By IRA on Feb 5, 2013 | Reply
I can't see the Jets paying close to 16 or so mill dollars to Smith and Sanchez who are both game managers. makes no sense. and I am still not convinced Sanchez will be on this team come Sept. Especially with a strong QB class for the 014 draft.
If Sanchez is on this team I would root for him. Still think he would be better off trying to get his career back on track on another team and I am sure the Jets feel the same but would never admit it. He will be on a short leash with the media and especially the fans. he really needs a fresh start.
Glad to see Devlin get the OL coaching job. If Rob Ryan does not get the DC job with the Saints he could end up being the LB coach for the Jets. Just my take.
By Ronbo19 on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
SPICER, My 2cents on your ongoing disussion with 64; In spite of what ever stats your useing to determine Flacco as the 14 rated Q.B, I think even you can see his playoff performance puts him in a completely different light as far as his public perception as well as how is now regarded by his peers? I think his up coming contract will bare that out as he will soon be among the "elite" at least as far as his paycheck will read. Personally, I havn't figured out what all this elite stuff is all about as opinions seem to vary greatly even here?Is it simply a guy who can make all the throw's as Joe capps says? Is it a Q.B who makes lousey teammate look better than they are? Hey, when you guys get this firured out let me know?
By Tom Spicer on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
Tom 64, You must have been talking about Mike Jet Vet cause I did not say anything about Sanchez contract?
By Tom Spicer on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
Ronbo, I said IF the Jets think that Smith or Glennon are the answer you take them it doesnt matter what anyone else thinks. Again EVERYONE thought Miami reached for Tanehill but nobody is saying that now. Everyone thought the Skins gave up to much for RG3 but nobody is saying that now. IF the Jets think they have there guy you take him.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
SCJoe, I think you posted earlier would the Ravens would have won the Super Bowl if Sanchez had 1 of his "regular" games that he has for the Jets. Well the answer is no. But it works both ways. Would Flacco have won the Super Bowl with Jermey Kerley instead of Aquan Boldin, Chaz Schilenes instead of Tory Smith, Jeff Cumberland instead of Dennis Pitta & Shonne Greene instead of Ray Rice? I have the answer to the question you dont have to answer it HELL NO!
By scjoe on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
spicer, you have officially become obsessed with the term "elite" I hear NO ONE else mentioning that term anymore re: QBs playing well and then winning a SB, only you! You can classify ALL 32+ QBs in the league any way you like, but at the end of the day the QB who plays best down the stretch, in the playoff's and in the SB will win it, you know, like Joe Flacco did. Is he "elite" who cares? his play, more then any other on his team, led the Ravens to the win. Finally, "sour grapes is something that someone is wrong has" Correct! That is why I used the term!
By Ronbo19 on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
IRA, I agree 100% with your cap analysis as it relates to out Q.B situation.Unless the I-man can somehow make Sanchez's contract more manageable I agree we will probably be stuck with him for at least this coming season. I also see Smith as a game mrg, albeit a superior one to the one we currently have.In any event, like the rest of us here I am cautiously optimistic our new G.M will do a better job than his predecessor.KLECKO FAN, I.m not sure anybodies underestimateing A.Smith? if you look at his career before Harbaugh came it was very Sanchez like. lots of turn overs not so much production. By surrounding him with a great O-line,R.B's and T.E's like V. Davis they basically asked him not to lose the game.But yes he is better than M.S
By scjoe on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
kleckofan, great point on that Denver playoff game. That game was ultimately decided by QB play, both good and bad,that is the point I am trying to get across to both Spicer and GaryC why they will not acknowledge that fact is a mystery to me.
By scjoe on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
GaryC. re: your comment on Joe Willie, don't you wish you could be "carousing" with the Playboy Bunnies on Saturday night THEN win a SB on Sunday and be proclaimed MVP while doing it? I certainly do! Hey, some people have it (Joe Willie) and some don't. (JaMARKus Sanchez) what can I say? You still find it difficult to acknowledge what that man did for his team, his league, and the NFL in general. Why?
By GaryC on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
Scjoe,yes I will give Sanchez credit for four playoff wins,did you see the pass to Holmes in the corner of the end zone against patriots or the game he played on the road against the Bengals,yeah he might not be the greatest qb but the almighty Broadway Joe,had fifty percent completion and 170 to 230 touchdowns to interceptions career wise.
By GaryC on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
Scjoe,you don't need much to change a culture when your team goes 1-15,Herm Edwards could have done that,Parcells was good but a great coach,I beg to differ,Remember he had Belichek on his staff and the same reason that you never give Sanchez credit for the playoff wins,I can say the same about Parcells,he won with Belichek.
By GaryC on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
It is funny about Gastineau and the way people looked at him when he did his sack dance,if he came along twenty five years later he might of got a gig on tmz or dancing with the stars,for some reason,we can only know,the same things aren't said about these players today,it must be the culture.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting for the New QB on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, Joe might've done a little better with a few less wild Saturday nights, but it was more the way the game was played then in the AFL than that which led to his INTs, most of the great QBs threw quite a few INTs because the game was very wide open and DBs were allowed to do so many things they can't do now, like completely knock the WR off the route unless the ball was right over their heads. It was much more Joe's knees that reduced his ability. Ira, I can't argue with any of that on Sanchez and if he starts next yr it would mean he's gotten much better, so I'd root for him then too. Odds on that are really slim, though…
By GaryC on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
JetFantom,you can say that Joe Played in an era that defensive players could actually play defense,not like today,but still their were quarterbacks that did have better stats back then and led their teams better,example Lenny Dawson,Scjoe,Sanchez ran around with Eva Longoria,so Joe isn't the only Jet playboy quarterback.
By GaryC on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
Scjoe,by the way Matt Snell should have won the Mvp.
By GaryC on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
scjoe,even you will admit that Broadway Joe played a pretty conservative game against the colts in super bowl 3.He did what needed to be done to win the game,maybe like some other quarterbacks today.
By since shea on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
Without a quality QB, teams dont go deep in Playoffs and go to Super Bowls. Without a real strong O line, you dont ever get to see if you have a real quality QB. That said, is Alex Smith worth $8 mill or so? Is he that much better than MS that he is worth that kind of money? No way! Any other free agent out there we can realistically sign that will make THE difference? NO. Is there a real franchise QB in this years draft ? Most think not. GET A WALL OF STEEL FOR THE O LINE. This years draft has great O linemen, TE's and OLB's. THATS WHAT WE NEED NOW. Lets not draft a QB now for the sake of drafting a QB. Next years draft has the potential franchise QB's. We can move the ball with a strong O line and TE's.
By scjoe on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
spicer, first off,Kerley plays a different position then Boldin, and if it were Schliens instead of Smith, and Cumberland instead of Pita I think the result would have been the same outcome. WHY? Because of the play of the QB. As for Greene instead of Rice? I think Greene could have gotten 59 yds rushing and a3.0 YPC average, and 0 TDs just as well as Rice did. Now, if you ask me to replace Flacco with Sanchez, I think you know what my answer would be.
By since shea on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
Spice, nice pick up on jetscap.com about cuts and redo's that can put us $29 mil under the cap. That money can buy us a better O line, TE's and OLB. If the O line played great this year, half the guys here would be thinking Shawn Greene should be in the Pro Bowl. Maybe even MS might have looked and played at a much higher level. Certainly, we would not have been the laughing stock of the Sports award show hosted by Alec Baldwin the night before the SB. And there would have been no butt fumble joke for Alec.
By Another Tom on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
I wonder about Holmes s' rehab status? I havent read any progress reports..Is He dedicated? or just chillin' ? Would be nice to add Brian Hartline to our Wr corp..
By scjoe on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, it was nice to see that you give JaMARKus Sanchez credit for "leading the team" to 4 playoff wins, and also acknowledging that one "nice" throw he made to Holmes (gee, he must have earned all of that 50 Mil on that one pass) but you didn't answer my original question "why do you acknowledge what JaMARKus did in a playoff game, but refuse to acknowledge what Flacco did in a SB win?"
By scjoe on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, are you certain that Herm Edwards could have done exactly what Parcells did? To take a 1-15 team that was even more dysfunctional then the 2012 edition (if that is possible) and contend for a playoff spot right up until the final game of the season in just one off season, THEN take the same team to the conference championship game the following year? Remember that "elite" QB he had during that first year? A guy by the name of Glenn Foley? Remember, when Rex did it he had a lot of the pieces already in place, did Parcells? Now, why do you think Parcells was selected to the HOF if any ol coach could have done what he did?
By scjoe on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
Gary, I know we are wearing this subject out, but when you start to make comparisons between JaMARKus Sanchez and Joe Willie Namath (stats notwithstanding) I have to chuckle, because there is no realistic way you can compare one to the other. As 64 pointed out, that was a different era, the rules were designed to favor the defense back then, unlike today. Can you imagine, in your wildest dreams, how JaMARKus Sanchez would have fared in the 60s and 70s brand of NFL football? THAT, my friend, would have been ugly!
By GaryC on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
Scjoe,what is the offset to bad quarterback play,is it good defense or vis a vis good quarterback play,bad defensive play,so I could say defense will dictate whether it is a good or bad quarterback,Defense will decide football games and make a good or bad quarterback.
By chris long time jet fan on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
the jets have way to many turnovers that has to be fixed….no tolerance …no excuses….rex has to much power and the new gm is a lame duck….rex willl stick with mark and i will have to watch another season go down the drain….its sad because rex can coach hes just blinded with mark…
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting for the New QB on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
Yeah, Spice, I meant MJV on the Sanchez contract, thanks for catching that. GaryC, give it up on this one with scjoe about how much credit QBs get for a Super Bowl win. There ARE QBs who deserve enormous, even dominant credit for a SB win — and Joe Willie was one of them — but Sanchez had about the least to do with those playoff wins as any Jet QB in history.
By IRA on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
You are spot on about Namath. If he had good wheels he might be discussed as one of the top ten all-time QB's. I did see him play in college and he could run the read option. He was amazing before he got hurt.
By Byrdman on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
BREAKING NEWS – This just in >>>
Observers in Arizona where NY Jet QB, Tim Tebow is working out are reporting:
"You gotta see him, looks like he's dropped 15lbs, working out like a mad-man on a mission" "Practicing with some Arizona ST receivers out here, Tebow is flying around the field firing bullets" a Sun Devil assistant coach was overheard to remark "THAT's Tebow? Holy Guacamole – this kids breaking the guys wrists and fingers catching the ball… WOW" then this "Heard Tebow's mad, he's fired up like never before, got a meanness we've never seen from the guy" "He's working with a QB guru down here, to shorten up his delivery and from what I've seen..damn, he hardly looks like the same guy" OK – I MADE THIS WHOLE STORY UP :D >>>
By Byrdman on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
>>>What would we do if Jets don't trade or release Tebow and he comes in next year determined to win the starting QB job? Then actually beats Sanchez and whoever they draft and pick up in free-agency, how would Jet Nation and this Radar group handle it? It's and interesting scenario, extremely unlikely but…This is the NY Jets we're talking about here, NOTHING should surprise us!
Sitting here looking at things, the first week of February, months away from the draft, it's realistic to assume the team won't be a playoff contender unless we strike GOLD in the draft. Would it be that awful if Tebow was our QB while we're rebuilding and hopefully grooming the QB of the future?
By Jeffb on Feb 6, 2013 | Reply
Flacco was not highly rated in the draft…Big guy with a big arm from Delaware……sound like anyone in this draft?
By carl on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
By GaryC on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
Ronbo19,need to take a reprieve from Scjoe and Jetfantom for a while,when it comes to Mingo,I believe Montgomery will become a better pro and as for Mingo getting stronger once he gets to the pros,a lot of these top colleges have great weight progams,Nebraska for one,so I don't see him getting significantly stronger in the pros.
By Ronbo19 on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
BYRDMAN,Hilarious dude, you had me going there. Actually, what you said sounds a lot like people discussing Tebow during last years training camp in Cortland. Geez, I can really tell how bored we all are reading some of the back & forth concerning Joe Willie, Parcells,even Tim Tebow. Hopefully things will heat up here shortly as the scouting combine is about 2 weeks away. In the mean time we will have to content our selves reading about who we cut from the roster for cap relief.
By scjoe on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, I think I have watched, played, coached and been around football long enough to know the difference between bad QB play, and a defense that makes a good QB look bad. The thing about Mark Sanchez, and I said this from day one, is his inability to make skill players around him better! Brady can do that, Manning can do that, Brees can do that. Other faults of Sanchez, where the defense don't come in to play at all, is his decision making, his immaturity, his inaccuracy, and his lack of leadership. NONE, are dictated by the opposing defense. Bottom line, no question, Mark Sanchez is NOT an NFL caliber QB.
By scjoe on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
Byrdman, in answer to that Tebow question, I for one was fooled into thinking that Tim Tebow's work in the off season last year would have produced at the very least, a viable b/u.It didn't. What you stated above about Tebow training in Arizona was exactly what I heard last year, except it was in California with a well respected QB guru. That said, if this go around produces a viable option to Sanchez, McElroy or whoever else they bring in I am ok with that, just as long as "whoever" wins the job outright, with no politics involved, is named the starter. Just based on what I have seen so far from Tebow? It wont happen.
By scjoe on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
Byrdman, key words in your post above, the Jets will not be a contender in 2013 "unless they strike gold in the draft" Exactly! But that is the beauty of the NFL system. History has taught us that you CAN contend following an awful season based on what the FO does the following off season, not only in the draft, but by free agency and via trades. Just recently we watched Miami do it (with Parcells) Indy do it, Seattle do it Cincinnati do it, so why not the Jets? You're up Mr Idzik!
By GaryC on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
JetfanTom,I know in your mind no one can say anything about Joe,him being part of the counter culture of the 60's along with Hendrix and Joplin,not Scott either,is sacriligious,that being said,not giving Snell or the defense credit in the Jet win is also ridiculous.Remember also the ball bouncing off Mitchells pads,Morrall missing Jimmy Orr,please,other factions led to the jet win besides Joe,what about Dave Herman and the game he played against Bubba Smith.
By scjoe on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
On a level playing field I can see a scenario where Alex Smith comes in to compete with Mark Sanchez for the starting job. But it is not a level playing field, there are cap ramifications on both ends. The best thing the Jets can do right now is to restructure Sanchez, explore trade options with other teams, including the 49rs and Seahawks trade talk involving Sanchez, Revis, their b/u QB and draft picks. It sounds complicated but in reality it is not.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting for the New QB on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
Totally agree about Namath, Ira. But I warned you about this last yr: "Veteran nose tackle Sione Po'uha is a prime candidate for release. Signed to a three-year, $15 million contract last March, the 34-year-old Po'uha battled a back injury for much of the season, logging just 28.49 percent of the Jets' defensive snaps. Po'uha is due $5 million in cash this season, an amount that is currently guaranteed for injury only. If Po'uha is on the Jets' roster on March 14, however, his $4.9 million base salary becomes fully guaranteed. Look for the Jets to make a move before that takes place, which would save the team $3.833 million in cap space." Like I said at the time, this deal made ZERO sense, probably more of Rex's being too nice to the guys.
By kleckofan on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
Byrd- your hypothetical being very close to some kind of acid trip aside, I could support Tebow much more than I could another year of Sanchez. At the very least Tim has heart, leadership and toughness. As most believe, 2013 will be a "lost year", I'd rather do it in fun fashion than in a deja vu nightmare.
RonBo I'm not on the Alex Smith bandwagon and if you read my post it stresses his success is based on system and coach. I don't think the surrounding cast changed too much though. I'm on the Matt Moore crusade if we go w any FA. I think folks would be surprised by him in a WCO.
I also have no problem w the strategy of building an awesome OLine, solves a lot of peripheral problems when the OL is dominating.
By GaryC on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
scjoe,you mention watching Sanchez in the 60's and 70'swould have been ugly,some of Broadway Joe's games weren't things of beauty either.It is really hard to defend a guy who had a 170 to 230 td to interception ratio.Here is a point I want to bring up to you,wildcard playoff game against the chiefs,first and goal to take the lead and Joe doesn't get them in and this is when qbs called their own plays,what were you saying at that time,great quarterback play.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting for the New QB on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
good news for your capologists the expected cuts, from the DAILY NEWS: "Pace, who is in the final year of his contract, would represent $8.6 million in cap savings if let go; Scott would save $7.2 million. Tackle Jason Smith, also expected to be cut, would save the team $12 million meaning the three combined would reduce the Jets cap number by $27.7 million, bringing them under the expected 2013 cap of $121.1 million. In addition, the Jets will carry over $3.4 million of unused cap space from the 2012 season on top of the expected $121.1 figure." Lose Pouha, Greene, Keller and a few others and we might actually have a shot at an improved roster. Of course, losing Sanchez is the big one…
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting for the New QB on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
My heroes are artists and athletes, GaryC, not protestors or politicians. Hendrix and Joe Willie had genius in spades while Joplin got very far on very little singing talent, in my view. People loved her as an icon but for a '60s female icon I'll take Brigitte Bardot, Sophia Loren, or Julie Christie any day. But back to football: Sure, Snell, Herman, the D, etc. were huge but as dozens will no doubt remind you, everybody said Joe would throw 5 picks vs the Colts, panic, lose his cool, etc. What he actually did was display his incredibly good skill at reading the D which, had he not gotten so banged-up in the next few yrs, might've eventually helped him win us another SB. Anyway, like scjoe says Sanchez has NONE of what Joe had on ANY level!
By scjoe on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
Gary, you are right about taking a break from this subject, I need one as well, but for my grande finale let me say this… Based on stats alone no one, and I mean NO ONE could make a case that Joe Willie Namath was an "elite" QB. I never, ever said that was the case. What I am saying, and what I will continue to stand by, is what Joe did for his team, his league and pro football in general. If you are a Jet fan, like I am, I really can't understand why your feelings conflict with mine. Sure, I give credit to Snell, to Maynard, to Philbin, to Elliott, to Lammons, to Sample, to that entire Jet roster. But it was Joe Willie who put the NY Jets and the AFL on the map! No one can deny that.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting for the New QB on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
And hold on, GaryC, Joe called his own plays but Weeb was notorious for being excessively conservative and that had an influence on what Joe called. You don't remember people streaming out of Shea yelling about how Weeb musta had a hand in that goal-line series vs KC? Maybe you don't remember Joe waving the FG unit back to the bench or tearing up the lousy turf at Shea and throwing it aside either. Anyway, you're wading into Spicer Elite territory by beating this dead horse, especially when a lot of Joe's picks came when no other mortal woulda gone anywhere near a gridiron anymore, kinda like Mantle's .299 lifetime BA. If Joe's knees had stabilized like they might've after today's surgery, the team with him and Riggins might've gone far.
By Jeffb on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
scjoe did Brees make skill players better in San Diego?? No, not all. Not until Brees was surrounded by good coaches and a good system did he do that. And Sanchez has not had either, as a matter of fact their stats their first 3 years were very similar. While Sanchez decisions have been questionable at times he's also done some good. I'm not advocating giving him the reigns for this year I'm just saying when there's no consistency in system or players around you its hard to be consistent yourself.
By Mike Jet Vet on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
I like some of these new signing. 3- 6-1 safeties, I believe Seattle has similar size with their back end if my memory serves, Matt Sims at QB . that's a big Question Mark >(Sanchez) I think new mind set just might be entering the 21st century. We can only hope
By IRA on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
I was all for Pouha to be resigned he was coming off a very good year and he has less mileage on his legs because he started his playing days later on after college. He earned that contract but nobody could have predicted he would end up with back problems. I think he could be cut or possibly asked to take a big pay cut. Would not be shocked if they have interest in Canty who can play both in a 3-4 and 4-3. I see him as another M Douglas as a role player for Rex next year if they move on from Pouha. D Jones will be a free agent and if Idzik does not want to bring Edwards back I would make a play for him or Hartline who I would love them to sign.
By IRA on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
I think Greene is a perfect fit for the Giants and would complement Wilson really well and get those tough between the tackles yards and wear defenses downs in the second half of games for the Giants like he did for the Jets running behind TJ and with LT. I expect the Jets to draft a RB early this year, in the early rds.
And if they are ready to move on from Moore I would see if K Boothe becomes a free agent I would make a run at signing him if possible. Also like Trufant from Washington as an early pick too. he might be able to step in and start right away either at nickel. Or even move Wilson back to nickel and put D Trufant on the outside.
By Byrdman on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
Please bear with me everyone…Those phony Tebow reports were just for laughs. I'm not a Tebow guy, I was baffled by the trade and wondered, as many of you guys did here – "What the hell are they doing ? Did somebody spike Tbaums coffee" ??
To me nothing would be more depressing than seeing #6 trot out on the field this sept as the starter. G-Mac doesn't send electric shocks down the spine either. Tebow is still on our roster, there's something about the guy that makes one wonder if we've seen the last of him, as an NFL QB.
I would be STUNNED if the guy shows up in camp and announces that he's determined to beat Sanchez and any other random QB they bring in for the starting QB spot. If ANYTHING it would make great Headlines !
By chris long time jet fan on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
i would take tebow or anybody over mark….mark is not a quarterback how he ever got this far is unbelieveable… 5yrs is more unbelievable….no accuracy…no heart ..no will…no repercussions for just bad play…i have watched the jets for well over 30 years they always played with what they had and was fun to watch so i watched wether they won or lost…this product depending who thet are playing you know the result before the game starts….a new quarterback will give us new hope….i dont need a superbowl or though would be nice…i need competative sundays by the jets..
By chris long time jet fan on Feb 7, 2013 | Reply
the jets have to pay him but dont have to play him.. maybe kerley can play ….please not another year of mark…its not fair to the fans
By GaryC on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
To Scjoe and Jetfantom,this will make you guys feel much better,I can only hope that McElroy is given an equal chance to beat out Sanchez,see,I am not joined at the hip of Sanchez,best man wins.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
Jets TE Jeff Cumberland could become "the starter by default."
The cap-strapped Jets are not expected to be able to retain unrestricted free agent Dustin Keller. That leaves Cumberland, a plodding former undrafted prospect out of Illinois. During the eight games that Keller missed last season, Cumberland posted 18 catches for 232 yards and two touchdowns
By GaryC on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
JetFanTom,your list of female icons is a good one,but if I had a card hand of Gina Lollibrigida,Barbara Parkins and Diana Rigg I would stand pat and maybe never leave the foxhole.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
SCJoe, Kerley & Boldin were both the number 1 WR'S for there team this year & they both play WR. Boldin is WAY better than Kerley! For you to compare Scheilens to Torrey Smith is comical at best Smtih is a great deep threat & a legit NFL WR Scheilins is a scrub who was the #4 WR on the Raiders & would have been our #4 behind Holmes, Hill & Kerley if Holmes was not out for the year & Hill was not hurt & in & out of the lineup all year. Now for a team that EVERYONE said had NO WEAPONS he would have been our #4 or = SCRUB! Also to compare Dennis Pitta to Jeff Cumberland who only played cause Keller missed 8 games is beyond a joke. There is no comparision what you are is like me saying Sanchez is as good as Brady THATS how bad it is.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
Finally while Ray Rice may have had a bad game vs the 49er D to compare Greene to him is a joke at bets Greene could not wash Rice's DRAWS! Lets change the question a liittle since you are incapable of admitting that you are wrong. If Flacco had Kerley as his #1, Schelines as his #2, Cumberalnd as his TE & Greene as his RB for the wholes season would the Ravens have won the Super Bowl?
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for the Elite QB on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
From Myers' excellent piece in the DAILY NEWS today, which says that cutting Scott will be "the end of an error" led by Rex: "If Bart Scott was as productive as his mouth, then he would not be on the verge of getting cut by the Jets and he would not be the symbol of Rex Ryan's deficiencies as a personnel evaluator." Yes, that's what some of us have been saying for at least 2 ys, and that's still another of those many reasons that I hope Idzik just kicks the tires on Rex this season, then kicks him back to coaching D at some junior college before hiring a new HC who'll be allowed to pick and groom the next elite QB on this team, which has never needed one more.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for the Elite QB on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
Jeffb, Brees certainly didn't make the receivers on SD worse and he had a MAJOR hand in making guys like Colston, Graham, Meacham, and Moore MUCH better. Ira, I pretty much predicted Pouha would have back or other injury problems because I told you nobody over 30 unless he was a superstar on the Brady level should ever be given a 3-year-deal, certainly not a plodder like Pouha whom Rex has overrated from the day he got here. And while I like your analysis re Canty, etc., please stop talking about Rex as if he matters, Idzik's not gonna be looking for "the next Douglas" but the next HC. chrislongtime, the only way Sanchez starts is if it's decided that we're okay with 2-14, in which case you'll see a ton of guys traded very soon.
By Mike Jet Vet on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
Hey. Scjoe, Gary C,Tom64, let me help put this subject you guy.s admittedly beat to death if you don't mind .QB's no matter what point in history, Lets start with QB's like Facco Eli, even Dilfer to name a few who've won a SB..in these cases greatness doesn't enter into it, I liken it to life in general and the split second decisions we make at critical times. which BTW why so many people are incarcerated, bad split second decisions, only in this situation we're talking about football game decisions . they have better than average talent to make right decisions at the most opportune time, QB's like Sanchez, Leaf, J-Russell do not I don't claim to know it all, just figured maybe a different perspective would help
By Charliejet on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
Sjoe, Tom 64 you said Sanchez has NONE of what Joe Namath had on ANY level.
That includes the women as well! Don't forget the babes.
By scjoe on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
JeffB Lets just compare Brees first 4 years as a starter in SD to Sanchez first 4 years as a starter. Brees threw 79 TDs to 56 INTs, in one of those years he played hurt and missed almost half the season. Sanchez on the other hand threw 68 Tds and had 69 INTs. In his first 4 years. But that don't tell the whole story, in the all important completion percentage Brees.. 60%, 57%, 65%, and 64%. Sanchez 53%, 54%,56%, 54% I'm not even going to compare Brees stats in N.O. because it wouldn't even be fair. Final note, Mark Sanchez was the 5th overall pick in the 2009 draft, which also cost a couple of other picks, Drew Brees was a 2nd round pick in 2001. Still want to compare the two?
By GaryC on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
MJV, your analysis is a good one on the quarterback situation,a thought outside the box,some qbs like people in general can make bad decisions,given time maybe they make the right decision.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for the Elite QB on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
I like your list, GaryC, though Gina L is a little more 1950s. And I didn't think you were joined at the hip with Sanchez anyway. Spicer, I agree about split-second decisions on and off the field but would add that incarceration wouldn't be too strong a punishment for some of the decisions on the field that Sanchez has made through his 4th yr. Nice on Brees, scjoe, he was getting better on SD and then became awesome on NO. The very mention of Sanchez within ten paragraphs of him is completely ridiculous.
By GaryC on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
JetFantom,I don't know how you can say that Joe threw interceptions in the wide open AFL,then the next minute you say Weeb had a tight reign on the plays he called,it has to be one or the other,either way you are making excuses for Joe's decisions,did Weeb play conservative when he coached Unitas and they won two straight titles.
By Stevesc on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
Kleckofan, while most on this blog have been beating the proverbial dead horse regarding qb's, I'm with you 100% regarding the offensive line. I agree that a killer o line solves a lot of peripheral problems as you stated. Again, I'll beat the dead horse when I say that the QB, RB's and WR's will not be successful without a solid O line that can pass protect and run block. This is where it all starts, in the trenches. So, hopefully the Iman and scouts will take a hard look at DRAFTING some solid offensive linemen. As always, IMHO, as I respect the knowledge of the fans who post here like tom64, Ira, scjoe, spicer, ronbo and others… you all make this blog very entertaining and fun to read.
By Mike Jet Vet on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
Spicer. you know it ticks me off .you calling players scrubs, all while you had a man crush on arguably the worst QB in history ….Given the chance good bad or indifference I'm willing to bet he would become a far better receiver then Sanchez ever was as a QB
By SCfromNY on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
Jet Vet: Great point about QBs I have been saying such things for a while. Where Sanchez is lacking, field presence, ability to read defenses, quick decision making, constantly accurate, and will win the game when the chips are down not lose it. You may be athletic, 220lbs, and 6'2″ BUT that doesn't mean you are Adrian Peterson.
Spice: I agree Flacco would not have won the SB without most of the players you mentioned. But you could just exchange 1 player and the team could have won. Put Sanchez at the helm of the Ravens or 49ers and they are picking in the top 15 on draft day. QBs MATTER!
By scjoe on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
Spicer, you are hilarious! You already have guys like Pita, Boldin and Smith enshrined in the HOF just to try to make a point (unsuccessfully I might add) You can name ALL of the Wrs, RBs, and TEs on the Jets and compare them to the Ravens or any other team you feel comfortable with, BUT, my point AND the bottom line is this, compare the most influential offensive player ONLY! The QB!!! That is what I am doing. That is the point! That is the tell all! If you do that you may realize that guys like Kerely, Schliens, Edwards, Keller, and even Cumberland may excel with Qbs like Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Flacco throwing them the ball, not to mention guys like Luck, Dalton, Kaepernick, Stafford. I can go on, but I think you get the point.
By scjoe on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
MJV, thanks for the input, and you are correct, the subject IS being beat to death, but I simply respond when someone asks a question, or makes some outrageous statement that I just can't overlook. And your point about "decision making" and intangibles in general by the QB is the point I have been trying to drive home to a select few for 4 years now. To me, those "intangibles" like decision making, pocket presence, situational awareness, leadership qualities, and maturity are just as critical as the players stats, probably more so.
By scjoe on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
Spicer, you are a guy who loves to talk about stats, maybe you should actually check them before you post them. IE. You compared Ray Rice with Shonn Greene and stated that "Greene couldn't wash Rice's shorts." Check the season stats and see if you still want to go there. Rice.. 257 att's 1143 yards 9TDs Greene 276 att's 1063 yards and 8 Tds. WOW! Rice had 80 yards more and ONE whole TD more. You are my hero! And all of this with an O line that YOU said was one of the worst in the league.Care to retract?
By IRA on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
I look at this year as a transition year and that will make it really tough for Rex to succeed. I am not going to throw in the towel before the offseason has even got started officially with the roster. I am sure Idzik and the personnel staff have a plan and we will start to see it unfold once free agency and the draft get here. Until then I will Hope for the best and hope they can get this team back on track sooner than later.
By scjoe on Feb 8, 2013 | Reply
Well Well Spicer, while I was checking out those "lopsided" RB stats I happen to stumble upon these WR stats. Boldin, who you already have enshrined in the HOF and Kerely, that "scrub" you always talk about. Here we go… Boldin 65 receptions 921 yards 4 TDs.. 14.2 YPC. Kerley 56 receptions 827 yards 2 TDs. 14.4 YPC. Again WOW! 96 more yards and TWO more TDs. Sorry man, you were right! What was I thinking about? Now I understand why the Ravens won the SB and the Jets finished 6-10 and the laughing stock of the free world.
By IRA on Feb 9, 2013 | Reply
So Rob Ryan finally lands a DC job and he will face us when the Saints come to town.
I am jumping ahead of myself and looking past free agency but if the Jets choose not to resign Moore that is a debate for another day if they keep the 9th pick and will probably have a later 1st rd pick as part of the Revis trade with the lack of skill position players early I would love for them to draft Warmack and lock him in at OG for the next 10 years. He is a stud and it appears that none of the OLB/pass rushers is a sure thing. Can't take somebody at 9 except a QB that this team can bring along slowly. he has to make an immediate impact from day one and Warmack can do that. They can get can their OLB, RB, QB, S, and WR/TE later on.
By MIKE on Feb 9, 2013 | Reply
Randy, any chance you could find out what guarantee's and cap hits does Mark Sanchez have for the 2014 season?
By Randy Lange on Feb 9, 2013 | Reply
Sorry, Mike, I don't do contracts. But there are a lot of media reports that have detailed the ins and outs of the contracts of Mark Sanchez and other players and how they impact the Jets' salary cap.
By MIKE on Feb 9, 2013 | Reply
Tough to analyze what the Jets should do in this years draft. With the Revis or Cromartie trades looming its tough to project what direction the Jets go in first couple of rounds. I Revis is dealt, than the Jets will more than likely have a second first round pick. I find it highly likely that a QB would be taken with one of those first round picks if so.
By Karan on Feb 9, 2013 | Reply
Jets have $3.4 million unused cap space from last season that they will carry onto next season. At least its something, they need to juice out as much space as they can on this salary cap. Scott, Pace and Thomas and the 2 Smiths are most definetly goners so thats great. Saves $30 million plus this $3.4 mill but its still not enough for a legit legit roster! Thanks a lot Tannenbaum! Most important thing is restructuring deals with players and most importantly Mark Sanchez. The Jets have reached out to the QB for restructuring, lets hope Mark gives up a lot for now, I read somewhere $8 million could be max according to his deal. Lets hope he does that, thats a lot to give up but the year he had in 2012, he needs to re-earn the green stuff.
By Karan on Feb 9, 2013 | Reply
Best of luck, Mr. Idzik.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for the Elite QB on Feb 9, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, I'm surprised at you, if you actually watched all of the Namath-era games, you know that Weeb got progressively more conservative to the pt that he was so afraid of INTs that we blew that goal-line series vs KC. It's ALWAYS more both/and than either/or and while there were guys, even in the AFL, who three less picks than Joe, lots of great QBs threw plenty of 'em. And I notice you didn't address my pt about how much better Joe's stats might've been had he retired at his peak, like maybe no later than after '72, than retiring when he did, much less had he stayed healthy. Thanks, stevesc, I like your posts, too! Definitely agree about the transition yr, Ira, which is also why I think it'll be Rex's last yr, no way he's the future.
By 40 year fan , John on Feb 9, 2013 | Reply
SCJOE I completely agree with your Bill Parcells statements …Parcells was cerebral ..He got inside peoples heads ..He was like the Sigmund Freud of coaches . And he knew what it took to win , and to turn around an organization . Completely ..That's what we need here now …
By Row on Feb 9, 2013 | Reply
Okay, I think I need to speak my mind here. Mendenhall, is a washed up RB with a bum knee who couldn't run a 6 second 40 at the moment. Anyone who wants Campbell, Moore or any of the sort is just plain wishing for a 2 million dollar flash of mediocrity. If anyone has seen Tebow play and win, they would know he could easily run a west coast offense. He can use play action, throw to a running back and utilize his mobility. (But no one has seen him do anything in the past year) Landry is exactly the type of player the Jets need to keep. Bell is not. I would like to see MM have full control of calling the O, a lot of feedback on the type of players he needs. (Not need to use) A few FA's OT's out there.. Keller hasn't worked out.. Go Jets
By Charliejet on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
Karan I don't know the business side of pro-football and I don't pretend to. But I have said Sanchez should indeed take a pay cut and I am positive they (organization) will be approaching him on this. Sanchez contract should be on an
incentive program i.e. bonuses for touchdowns thrown, yards, completion %, under a certain amount of interceptions, wins/losses, if team makes playoffs etc. against the minimum pay that a 5th year quarterback can make in this league.
By IRA on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
Thanks most posts are fun to read and informing. Why would Sanchez want to restrucure unless he does it so maybe they can trade him? Might be the best thing for both sides.
By Ronbo19 on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
STEVE SC, I dont normally soeak for others but in this case I and most certianly all of us you mentioned appreciate your kind words.And let me say I agree with your assessment that the O-line needs to dominate. The good news is I dont believe its going to be as big a job as some have speculated.Like him or not Ferguson had his best season last year & with Mangold you know what you get there. A.Howard contrary to what some have stated actually was effective if not dominant.The guard posisition will probably work itself out as one of the two will resighn abd we will likely draft one early. Perhaps even Womack as some here hope for. As I have openly campaigned for an OLB @pk.#9 I will say picking Warmack would not break my heart! He is a beast
By chris long time jet fan on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
scjoe like the way you think kerley and rb greene could be really good if we had a qb that would scare somebody into thinking he might complete a 20 yd pass with accuracy…jets will have some money if they let go of the pass and mark re dose his contract….he will or his days of qb are over……everbody says tim tebow is done and all he ever did was win..new england beat alot of teams…ps we know why
By Tom Spicer on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
SCJoe, "You already have guys like Pita, Boldin and Smith enshrined in the HOF just to try to make a point (unsuccessfully I might add)" UM I never said any of them were going to the hall. Unlike you who claims Kerley is a pro bowler & Schielens & Cumberland are legit NFL starters. I would be embarrsed for having those words come out of my mouth.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
SCJoe, You are now comparing Shonne Greene to Ray Rice? REALLY! Ray Rice is a pro bowler Shonne Greene will be backing someone else up next year. You convenently forgot to add Rice had his worst year while Greene had a career year. With that being said Rice had 478 yards catching over 320 more than Greene & 2 more TDS. Lets look at the year before that Rice rushing for 300 more yards & catch for 500 more yards in 2011 Rice had 2,068 total yards it would take Greene 2 years to get that many yards! Rice also had 15 TDS AGAIN it would take Greene 2 or 3 years to get 15 TDS. Now SC "I post more worng things than anyone" Joe this is what I call a internet beat down that you are getting!
By Tom Spicer on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
SCJoe, I NEVER EVER said Kerley was a scrub I said Scheliens was a scrub RE READ THE POST!
By Tom Spicer on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
SCJoe, We are comparing Boldin who has made multiple pro bowls to Kerley who has had 1 okay season? Boldin now plays on a running team & the ball is spread out to Smith & Pitta along with him as to where when he was on the Cards basically ever ball went to him or Fitz. When Kerley has 5 1,000 yards season & 9 seasons with over 837 yards catching THAN at that point you can compare the 2. At this point Kerley is a okay slot WR a young Cotchery who may be a NFL#2 one day. Boldin is a stud WR who is VERY physical & plays the position like a RB. To compare the 2 again is funny. At this point you need to either go back to the drawing board or can I ask you are you ready for a retract? THIS IS TO EASY!
By Tom Spicer on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
The Jets' organization is reportedly "high" on restricted free agent RT Austin Howard and intends to extend him a pricey tender.
Since Howard was originally undrafted, the Jets would need to slap him with at least a second-round tender to comfortably retain him. Howard, 26 in March, graded out in 2012 as Pro Football Focus' No. 31 offensive tackle, and as a top-eight run blocker. They credited Howard with ten sacks allowed, a high total
By Tom Spicer on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
Rotoworld "Jets RE Muhammad Wilkerson's 2012 campaign was the most productive season by a Jets defensive lineman in Rex Ryan's head-coaching tenure. Wilkerson amassed 70 tackles, three forced fumbles, and five sacks while grading out as Pro Football Focus' No. 2 3-4 defensive end in the entire league, behind only J.J. Watt. He was still snubbed for Pro Bowl recognition. Wilkerson, still just 23, is one of the Jets' few building blocks on either side of the ball."
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for the New QB and HC on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
Actually, 40 yr, it's Rex who's like Freud, operating boldly but foolishly on the basis of fanciful, almost instantly outdated theories that are mostly projections of his own feelings and issues rather than rooted in any knowledge of how to get results in his chosen field, unable to listen to and learn from his clients (in Rex's case, his players) and figure out how to maximize their effectiveness, and all in all doomed to be relegated to the dustbin of history surprisingly quickly after his demise. Read Alice Miller's first couple of books and you'll understand better what I'm talking about with this analogy.
By SCfromNY on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
It's been a while since I mentioned my "popular with some" Jet plan. They should gut the team this year. Hopefully draft well adding needs and depth. In 2014 we can get a QB and finish filling holes. And since we will probably have a poor year we will draft low again. The last 2 years have proven that a QB can come from college, start, and win. Plus with all cap issues gone we can sign quality FAs. I also believe all signings should be for a minimuim of 2 years with incentives for the 2nd year.
By GaryC on Feb 10, 2013 | Reply
JetFanTom,I have a better stat for you,besides Joe's first year with jets,every other year thereafter,his total career touchdowns never caught up with his career interceptions,his first year 18 touchdowns,15 interceptions,thereafter accumulate that season plus the previous seasons,touchdowns never exceeded interceptions,maybe we know why weeb went conservative.
By GaryC on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
when it comes to the draft I will be interested to check out Patterson and Hunter,the two Tennessee wideouts,history says Tennessee puts out great receivers and we all know the jets need speed at the wideout to go along with Hill,of course it depends on a Revis deal and that extra number one,because Patterson will be a number one pick somewhere and the jets will go another position with there own pick.
By Mike Jet Vet on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
This Kid from Florida intrigues me at QB EJ -Manuel I believe his name,
By scjoe on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
Spicer, ever think about a career in stand up comedy? Maybe you should, because your posts are becoming more and more hilarious. The one about the "internet beat down" had me rolling on the floor for ten minutes. Now, getting back to reality, you love to talk about "scrub players" on the NY Jets, but yet you have overwhelmingly supported the worse scrub of them all from day one until present day, so how can anyone take you seriously when you talk about players ability on this team?
By scjoe on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
Spicer, you talk about the Ravens SB win this year, you claim it was not because of the QB play but because of their skill position players, and how superior they are to the Jets "scrub" skill position players. THEN, when I point out the fact that the stats for this year (YOU KNOW, THE YEAR THE RAVENS WON THE SB) were almost IDENTICAL, you counter with what they did in their careers. Gee, how convenient is that? I didn't know we were talking about ancient history. For some strange reason I thought we were "discussing" THIS YEARS SB win and who is most responsible for it. Nice to see you changed the discussion to "stats of yesteryear," which to me has no bearing on this years SB win.
By scjoe on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
One last thing spicer, please don't throw out any more statistics about Jet players, especially skill position players, and please don't compare them anymore with skill position players on other teams who have a "real" QB who gets the ball to them, not until the Jets get a "real" QB of their own. Wait until the playing field becomes a little more level before you make a fool of yourself.
By scjoe on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
40 year fan, I don't think anyone could disagree that Parcells was one of the very few elite HCs of our time. If there were one knock against him it would be to his long term loyality and commitment to any one team. I feel very confident that if he had stayed with the Jets for another few years he would have taken them to a SB win.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
Rotoworld "The Jets can save $3.8 million by releasing NT Sione Pouha.
Due $4.9 million, Pouha is currently set to count $6.2 million against the cap. Releasing Pouha isn't the no-brainer parting with ILB Bart Scott, OLB Calvin Pace and OT Jason Smith will be, but likely something the cap-strapped Jets will think long and hard about. One of the leauge's very best defensive tackles in 2011, the 34-year-old Pouha's play sagged in 2012 as he fought through a back injury."
By Ronbo19 on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
GARY C, excellent point about the 2 Tenn. W.R's. I believe both will have excellent NFL careers. Hunter at 6-4 205 is an accomplished route runner with 4.4 speed and a nose for the ball. Patterson at 6-3 205 is an athletic freak. The guy has more moves than Ex-Lax runs a 4.3 and adds the kick & punt return element as well.Patterson does suffer from occassional mental lapses and does have a case of the Steven Hill dropsies. If either of these guys is available in Rd2 it would be tough to pass on them? T64 & S.C.Joe as for Namath place among the greatest I can only say judge him amongst his peers.The Lamonica's Jack Kemps,John Hadl's ect. The rules were so different then. Mugging was legal in those days.Plus although we have only 1 S.Bowl-
By Ronbo19 on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
cont.- victory in Jet history, there is one thing no one else can duplicate: it was the first AFC victory, and perhaps historically the most significant as well. It bascially forced the merger. If namath played under todays rules (and was healthy) I think his career numbers would be among the all time greats. Now, I readily admit I an completely 100% biased here but hey, its my post!
By GaryC on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
JetFantom,not to get on your case,but you did say most of Joe's stats on intercepts came after 72′,that he was much better before that,but he could never put together one or two good years where his Touchdown passes could exceed his interceptions,EVER.
By 40 year fan , John on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
Scjoe I agree totally . I think the Parcells , Curtis Martin , Vinny , Chrebet Jets team left a few championships behind on the table ..I think that team should have certainly won at least one …
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for the New QB and HC on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, I'm not going to engage in a discussion of whether Namath was great in order to build up Sanchez or whatever insanity you're engaging in of late. But at least get the facts straight and if you've been lying about watching AFL football in the '60s, admit it. Namath also had more TDs than INTs in '69. Except for '72, his career was basically over by '70 due to injuries. If you look at Hadl, his closest contemporary, the TD/INT #'s are almost exactly the same and while Lamonica had a better ratio, he choked in big games like the KC playoff before SB4. All these guys were All-Pro many times, which reflects how differently the TD/INT question was viewed then to begin with. Now go back to your weird fantasies that we don't need a great QB.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
SCJoe, I think you have already done that to yourself calling Kerley a pro bowler & comapring him to pro bowlers like Boldin. Comparing backs like Greene to Ray Rice & saying things like Scheilnes & Cumberland are anything more then bench fodder. Trying to make everyone think that the only thing that matters is the QB. When it is just not true.
By scjoe on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, just once, lets remove statistics from the equation, like I "try" to tell spicer, they don't always tell the whole story. Yes, Joe Willie throw more INTs then TDs. The stat sheet will tell you that, but what it don't tell you is that he played most of his NFL career on TWO very banged up knees. What the stat sheet also don't tell you is the fact he took the team to the SB with those knees, won it, and was named MVP for a reason, not mainly because of his "stats" but for his game management and for what it meant for the old AFL at that time. No one is making the case he was an "elite" QB, although he may have been minus the injuries. You're an SEC guy, do you remember Joe's first couple of years at Bama, before the injuries?
By Tom Spicer on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
Guys we dont need anything but a QB & we can win the Super Bowl. We dont have to resign Braylon & it doesnt matter if Holmes comes back 100% because according to SCJoe Kerlery is a pro bowler.& Scheliens is a legit #2 NFL WR. The Raiders had it all wrong by making him there 4th string WR. We also dont need to resign Keller because Cumberland is a legit NFL TE. Greene is also a top 10 NFL RB like Ray Rice so we have to resign him as a free agent. Teams are going to be knocking down Shonne Greenes door to sign him as a free agent. YES every analyst, sportscaster, braodcaster, newspaper & magazine are ALL WRONG when they say the Jets have the wrost skill position players in all of the NFL. All we need to do is to get a QB & Kerley will be in
By Tom Spicer on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
the pro bowl with Shonne Greene. These are just a handful of some of your ridiculous statements. So you keep beliveing that these guys are all pros & its all Sanchez fault when in reality until proven otherwise. Kerley is a NFL #3, Greene is a backup, Schielines is a practice squad player, Cumberland is a backup. In real life the Jets need a QB, RB, if they dont resign Keller a TE & if they dont resign Braylon or Kerley & Hill both are significatnly better next year. Than NO QB is going to make these guys what you are making them out to be.
By themooseisloose on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
Congrats Bill.
Wish you were still here, then maybe someone would make the correct decission and dump Sanchez.
By Karan on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
I will miss Pouha on this team if released, but at the same time I can understand why he would be released. He had an off year but that doesn't mean he's still a really good player. At the downside, the guy's 34, yes, he started the NFL late, but 34 is still 34 in terms of this league. I wouldn't mind having him back at all but if he saves up on some much needed cap money, then I wouldn't mind a release either. Lets hope at least one of DeVito or Pouha return. I don't both coming back will be possible.
By Karan on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
My mistake, I meant to say 'that doesn't mean he's still NOT a really good player'.
By Karan on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
Michael Vick re-structured for Philly. Come on Mark, lets get this done! Pay the guys that you play for! That sounds hilarious but on a serious note, his contract really needs to be restructured. We need cap space!
By Mike Jet Vet on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
Spicer. Releasing Pouha no brainer no question, He played though a back injury you claim , Really! can you name a point in time when he wasn't injured I can't, like Jenkins he was good in his day just not productive for us, I can't remember him not being or playing injured as well . We haven't had a solid nose tackle for some time , M-Devito has been our only constant for along the D-line keeping it somewhat respectable. and that's not saying much..Comes back to talent evaluation we haven't any in some time . Lets use Willfolk on NE he's a one man wrecking crew, which BTW I can't remember him ever missing any time to speak of year in year out,making in part difference between winners and losers
By chris long time jet fan on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
scjoe i agree with you 100 percent….when we get a quarterback all our players will have better stats…..in todays game you need at least a average or better quarterback…
By chris long time jet fan on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
i believe marks inabilities held us back from day one
By Jack on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
Hey Ron Bo19…. I would like to see the Jets take OG Chance Warmack too with the 1st pick ONLY IF OLB Jarvis Jones is gone went Jets pick at 9. This guy is good he fast going tp be a good Pass Ruhser it what the Jets been looking for years I would love this pick. But if he gone I would take a gamble on trading down to 13th or 14th pick and hope that OG Chance Warmack is still on the board and take Warmack. I just can't see anyone taking a QB, early in the 1st Rds. Look for KC, Oakland and the Bills wating till the 2nd Rd's to draft a QB's. If somehow QB, Tyler Wilson still there went Jets pick they should take him. My other picks Rd's 2 are ILB Kevin Minter, RB, Eddie Lacy, TE Zach Ertz or TE, Tyler Eifert CB, Logan Ryan, WR Robert Wood
By Stevesc on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
Ronbo, I agree the offensive line is not beyond a few tweaks. The guard position is the question mark, and I think if Howard drops a few pounds and gets a little quicker, he can cut down on his sacks allowed.
By IRA on Feb 11, 2013 | Reply
Very happy to hear Vick resigned with the Eagles. Sometimes stats are misleading I am not making excuses for Howard giving up 10 sacks but I do believe the Jets have found their RT for the next few years.
The more I think about what I would hope they do with some of their own free agents I believe that Pouha will be cut and they need to make DeVito an offer to make him stay. He is their next run stopper and can be moved around on that DL plus his veteran leadership is very important to this team. Pouha I can't see back unless he takes a big paycut. Keep an eye on A Branch a free agent from the Seahawks.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for the New QB and HC on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
Cimini has a great piece today on our old, slow, and in some cases downright terrible starting LBs, the only one of whom is worth keeping is Harris although he's also overrated and probably too slow to ever be "elite" (there's that word again) in today's NFL. And my question to all you Rex boosters — the handful of you left, anyway — is how is it that such a genius coach of D has been able to do no better than these guys and get no more out of them than he has? If we kept only Harris and Davis and brought in all new guys, we wouldn't really be losing a thing.
By Ronbo19 on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
GARY C &SPICER, Although I enjoy a stimulateing debate with you guys you both know I am the first one to complement you when you do a great post and you both know I'm more than willing to admit when I make a mistake like I did with my support of M. Sanchez.That being said, enough is enough with this ongoing verbal jousting with S.C.Joe & Tom 64. Now I realize all to well they dont need me defending them but I think its time to just agree to disagree. I enjoy & look forward to reading all your posts but its getting a little too personal. I do agree it will be more fair to judge Kerley,Cumberlin& even S.Hill after a season playing with a more capable Q.B.There was nothing capable about Marks perfoemance last year.
By Mike Jet Vet on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
J- Russell, is working out in hopes of a come back. I know some here don't want to hear this, Don't be surprised if the New guy gives him a look. In my opinion it's good business, I say leave no stone unturned given our QB situation, like I've said previously, we can get him for practically NOTHING plus from what I saw he lost weight and his arm looks strong.. What's the worst case scenario he's one step above Sanchez with no cap hit win win for now
By scjoe on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
Spicer, I understand, I really do! It is much easier to just ramble on go off topic, and jump all over the place instead of just manning up when it was acknowledged that YOUR stats backfired on you. Just tell me, in plain English, what statement are you trying to make by comparing the SB winning Ravens skill players to the NY Jets skill players but conveniently neglecting to include the QBs? Again, this years stats (the year I thought we were debating) are almost exact, (except for the QB) so what-is-your-point???? I know that Shonn Greene is a b/u at best, but that is not the point! I am comparing his production to Ray Rice THIS YEAR!! The year in question, until you took a detour.
By scjoe on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
chris long time jet fan, lets just pray we get the opportunity to prove that the skill position players for the most part are adequate with an upgrade at QB, because there is still a chance it will be Sanchez again in 2013. That is the ugly business and political side of the issue.
By GaryC on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
JetFanTom,I am not here to build up Sanchez,he will be here or not depending on what he does on the field,that being said your fascination with him,you and Scjoe,baffles me,it is not like the Jets have had great quarterbacks in the past,and now you say Joe's jet career ended in 70 basically.I could give you a longer list of terrible jet quarterbacks who did far less then Sanchez,and yes You and Scjoe have a few years on me,you probably saw Otto Graham too,so you know a true hall of famer when you see one.
By Byrdman on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
Several factors negatively affected the TE position last season. Josh Baker was starting to come on as a hybrid TE/FB then went down in preseason. Keller is an undersized TE who lacks the top end speed to be a deep threat, but he was our best receiving TE before he got injured. Both these injuries forced Jeff "Stumblebum" into the starting lineup, he's an average backup blocking TE at best. Remember he ran some bad routes that took his defender into the area Hill was working that resulted in missed TD's and a couple Int's. Look at any of the playoff teams, their TE's compliment each other, they get open, provide a big target and many of them can flat out pancake a LB or SS to open a crease for the RB. Jets have NOTHING like that at TE.
By Byrdman on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
In fact I would argue that the Jets are 2 real good TE's away from being an effective Offense. The current roster lacks a big fast powerful TE – playoff teams in the NFL have a FLEET of good TE's.
Hopefully Marty will make a good case for Jets to draft one early and also grab a FA like a Delanie Walker or Faisano.
I noticed Mel Kiper thinks no QB's would be taken in the first round this year – that would be great news for the Jets, we could maybe get one in the 2nd or better yet, later rounds. I'm still in the – best OLB on the board at 9 club. After that TE, RB, OLine, FS, developmental QB, not in any locked in order – pluck the best player there on the board.
By scjoe on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, I know some here are getting board with the topic, and I can relate, but it IS the Jets and it IS relevant, and it IS off season, so, I am OK with it. I don't think the term "fascinated" describes my feelings of one Mark Sanchez. And I agree there have been a long list of "bad" Jet QBs, over the years, BUT…How many were "as bad" and how many were given this much time to get it right? I know it is not entirely Sanchez fault, most of the blame can be attributed to FO politics rather then the players, but as a fan, watching the same horrific play from this player for 4 years now has been quite frustrating, and that is putting it as discreet as possible.
By scjoe on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
What's the consensus out there on signing Bradshaw? (NYG RB) I think he immediately becomes the #1 and is a good fit in the WCO. He is only 27. He wants to stay in the NY/NJ area and should fit in with where the cap is. So?
By GaryC on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
Ronbo19,the constant bickering that I do with JetFantom and scjoe,is filler until the combine comes up,at least it is better then when I went at it with Bennett and Joe Capps,that got a little too much.
By kleckofan on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
wow, GaryC time to take a breath. I agree w RonBo, this thread has run its course.
That said, some simple advice, you will never win friends and influence people on here by dissing Joe Willie. He is our one shining star (with whatever warts and mistakes anyone chooses to point out). Without him we're the Houston Oilers or any other AFL team w/o a Superbowl. Period. Move on.
I think the "fascination" w Sanchez comes from the fact that he was the #5 overrall pick, paid lots of money and was handed the starting job (repeatedly). Al Woodall, Pat Ryan, Bob Davis etc didn't create expectations. Rex made it worse.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
SCJoe, I didnt bring up any stats until after you did & I try my best not to cause that is you & Tom 64's go to every time you are wrong about something. If you read back thru the posts you said "you are a guy who loves to talk about stats, maybe you should actually check them before you post them. IE. You compared Ray Rice with Shonn Greene and stated that "Greene couldn't wash Rice's shorts." Check the season stats and see if you still want to go there." Than you started posting stats.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for a New Roster on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
Sanity from the SI offseason report: "The Jets could enter camp with three quarterbacks having a bona fide chance to win the starting job. Sanchez will likely compete with a journeyman veteran like Moore or Chad Henne and possibly a second- or third-round draft pick. Finally, Jets fans are going to have to buy a program in the preseason because Idzik will make several cuts as he cleans up the mess left by former general manager Mike Tannenbaum. Ryan will never admit it, but this has to be a rebuilding year." Funny, a few of us on this site thought LAST year was a rebuilding year…
By Tom Spicer on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
Jets college scouting director Jeff Bauer said the team will look to condense their big board to 200 names to work with on draft weekend.
"Our board right now has about 260 guys," Bauer said. "We want to get that down to about 200 that we work with on draft weekend, but we'll see. It might be a bigger list than that." The team plans on starting with the quarterbacks and moving on to other positions after that
By Tom Spicer on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
ESPN New York says ILB David Harris is a "prime candidate" to restructure his contract.
Harris is entering the third year of a four-year, $36 million contract he signed in August of 2011. He's owed $10.9 million in 2013 base salary, an untenable number considering his on-field performance and the Jets' cap situation. ProFootballFocus graded out Harris 48th among 53 qualified inside linebackers in 2012.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
ESPN New York expects Demario Davis to replace Bart Scott as a starting inside linebacker in 2013.
Scott is fully expected to be released along with OLB Calvin Pace. That leaves Davis, a 2012 third-round pick that will provide an upgrade in athleticism. He projects to give IDP owners more than the 60 tackles, 2.5 sacks and one interception Scott provided last season
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for a New Roster on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, Sanchez simply isn't worth discussing in terms of a future on the New York Jets — even Ira says that all the time — much less worth discussing in the context of Joe Namath, SB3, the AFL/NFL wars, etc. But yeah, aside from all those contextual differences, Namath had more skill and feel for the QB position than Sanchez has ever shown on his best day. And here's one proof of that: On his very worst day, Namath still had the ability to bring the team back to win with a pass or two. By contrast, on his very best day, you known Sanzhez is capable of the butt fumble on any given snap. He may not be the worst QB the Jets have ever had, but he might well have the least confidence of any…
By kleckofan on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
Just to get off the current topics…
GaryC said he can name a long list of Jet QB's who were worse than Sanchez. (This is not to pick on Gary, just a new topic). Surprisingly the Jets have not had that many QB's. Here are those that started 3 or more yrs (sorry Dorrow and Wood):
Namath, Todd, O'Brien, Esiason, Testaverde and Pennington.
Now, I would not take Sanchez over any of these guys. Heck, I'd also take Ray Lucas and Browning Nagle over Sanchez.
By Ronbo19 on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
By GaryC on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
Kleckofan,okay,now when we start naming Nagle and Lucas as better then Sanchez,please.I will put this to rest anyway,like I said in a previous post,this is starting to feel like Bennett and Joe Capps all over again,rehashing a topic over and over.
By GaryC on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
why is it that every Giant who gets cut they always mention playing for the jets,they could drag their carcass and play for 30 other teams and they never mention them,Maybe now that Idzik is here players will want to PLAY FOR THE GREEN INSTEAD OF LINING THEIR POCKETS WITH THE GREEN.
By GaryC on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
Scjoe,you mentioned about me being a SEC guy,sorry,didn't grow up in Alabama,Florida,Georgia,the only SEC affiliation I have is the SouthEastCorner of Queens,Ny.
By Mike Jet Vet on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
Kleckofan, you took the words right out of my mouth …I was just getting ready to state that very fact on past QB's . I'm hearing many comments. Sanchez may not be the worst QB, I beg to differ, I believe he is.. I would take any one you mention over Sanchez any day, Every one you mentioned at their very best or very worst was at least capable of bringing a team back from losing by 3 points not to mention no where near the red zone INT's or fumbles Caused By MS …Case closed
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for a New Roster on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
All I say, Spicer, is that stats don't tell all especially if you watch the part of the game before mediocrities like Sanchez start rolling up garbage-time stats. And yeah, GaryC, things can get crazy while waiting for any scrap of news, like that all our overpriced, undertalented vet LBs have been cut. But like klecko says, there's not much pt to dissing Namath whatever his faults, especially since what we learned about ten years ago — if you read that one book — was that it was a miracle that he ever took the field after about '66.
By Byrdman on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
My take on RB's is that they are like the tires on Indy cars – You run em till they're burned up then you get fresh ones. There are so few legit game-breakers, some teams have a knack for spotting and drafting good RB's -Jets sure don't.
Take Arian Foster for example – he'd be the best RB ever drafted by the Jets – Yet he's an un-drafted walk-on !
Ahmad Bradshaw was a 7th round pick – Good scouts just find these players, they don't ever trade for them. SB caliber teams don't build the roster off the Waiver Wire!
An average Joe Lunch-pale could make the pro-bowl behind a great O-line.
By Byrdman on Feb 12, 2013 | Reply
Scjoe – Yeah, to answer your question sure, take Bradshaw.
A former 7th round injured RB gets cut by a team that plays in the same stadium, he hobbles into our locker room by far the best runner on the team –
Think about that !
By scjoe on Feb 13, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, I have been around the radar long enough to know you are a Queens guy who relocated to Indy. When I say "you are an SEC guy" I simply meant that you follow the SEC. So, if that isn't the case, I expect we will never hear mention of any more SEC players coming out.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 13, 2013 | Reply
I would take Bradshaw he is still only 27. He has the speed we have lacked a the RB spot. He has a proven track record & is a much better fit for our new O than Greene. If the money is right why not?
By scjoe on Feb 13, 2013 | Reply
Byrdman, that tells me two things, first, we have absolutely nothing at the RB position, and two, you can upgrade one of the critical positions in need (among the many) with a young, established vet, and do it with out draining the cap.
By Ronbo19 on Feb 13, 2013 | Reply
I say NO on Bradshaw as Byrdman is right about the tires. Yes you may get a decent year or 2 out of him but I think the money could be better spent elsewhere.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting to Score Points on Feb 13, 2013 | Reply
You make the key point about Sanchez, MJV, which is that in his world leading the Jets back from a 7-pt deficit even against the worst teams in the league is a huge assignment. And Rex, with his ridiculous belief that you can beat everyone 17-10, made Sanchez worse by enabling him in this manner rather than teaching him how to play like a real NFL QB, one that can actually commit to scoring pts to win a game rather than just avoiding making mistakes and hope the D or ST makes a score or two.
By GaryC on Feb 13, 2013 | Reply
Scjoe,I mention Sec guys because that is where the talent lies in college,of course I mention other guys in other conferences when it warrants it,I go bi coastal seeking talent for the green and white,as Tanny used to say,no stone goes unturned.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting to Score Points on Feb 13, 2013 | Reply
I say no to Bradshaw and just about all FA's, let's rebuild patiently and smartly for once, and that includes dealing Revis and Holmes, letting Greene, Keller, Landry, Bell, Pouha, Pace, Scott, and Thomas go, and basically proving to Cimini that Jet fans can hang on through a long-term rebuilding process rather than pinning their hopes on Rex, his retreads from BAL, and the whole circus that he calls coaching.
By Julio on Feb 13, 2013 | Reply
It's too bad that Parcells left us when he found out Woody was taking over. Woody wouldn't allow Bill to take full reigns of the Jet's player personnel decision. And now Jet nation sees the result of Woody's consensus agenda…
By chris long time jet fan on Feb 13, 2013 | Reply
straight from rexs mouth,,,it doesnt matter who plays quarterback if the wrs run the routes…..there lies the problem….
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting to Score Points on Feb 14, 2013 | Reply
chris, Rex wouldn't know a good route-runner from a truck-stop runner, and nothing he says about QBs is worth paying attention to in the least.
By Tom Spicer on Feb 14, 2013 | Reply
Tom 64, I agree with most of your list but Landry & Keller both of these guys are still young & good. If we can afford them I want them back.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting to Score Points on Feb 14, 2013 | Reply
I see your thinking, Spicer, but mine is that neither Landry nor Keller are going to be major factors when we're serious contenders again, which won't be for 2 or 3 yrs, so there's no point in prioritizing them now. A lot of the spin on this site over the next yr or so — from the FO, from the editors, from some of the fans — is going to be that we're still really close, we're only a few players away, etc. Well, I hate to break it to all those folks but we're not close at all, as everyone will see when the moves that Idzik makes are geared toward 2015 or so, not September of this year.
By Ronbo19 on Feb 14, 2013 | Reply
SPICER, This is exactly what I mean when I say we need to" aim higher". As you like to quote alot of stats and repeat things you hear or read lets remember L.Landry was judged to be a middle of the pack safty. Yes he's a hard hitter but also blows a lot of coverages & gets penalized a lot too. I'm not saying he's a "scrub or anything, just that he's gonna price himself out of our affordability as he's already stated 'no home team discount!" As for Keller, hey, the guys 6-1 i/2 240 lbs and is more suited to play H.back than In-line T.E. Add in his recent injury history(which has been publically questioned?) and his lousey blocking, You have to at least check out if there are better options out there?Neither of these guys is more than avg.
By scjoe on Feb 14, 2013 | Reply
64, Ron, you know me! Have to disagree on signing "selective" free agents. Sure, it would be nice to "build through the draft" providing that is what you are doing. Has this team?? In my mind you upgrade your roster in any way possible, as long as it makes sense and is feasible. Which is why I say "selective" free agents. You have to use all the tools available, if you don't you will be left behind. I know you guys are basing this issue on what this team has done in the past, and I can relate, but forget the past, it IS the past. Bottom line….UPGRADE! Don't particularly matter where that upgrade comes from. Lets just see what the new regime offers before we pass judgment. Also, don't agree with any "3 to 4 year plan" With the right moves this team can compete this year.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting to Score Points on Feb 15, 2013 | Reply
Selective FAs si, fantasies about competing this yr, no, scjoe. Unless you think we can possibly do that with Sanchez, which of course is the height of absurdity. The battle between some vet pick-up, MS, and McElroy alone might take the whole yr to determine who to stick with except in the case of "Mark," who'll be out of the running before the 2nd exhib game if anyone but Rex is evaluating the contest. And that doesn't even factor in if we draft a QB. So no, get used to it, we're going nowhere next yr, not just because we deserve to but because it'll be impossible to even tell what we've got until about November.
By Ronbo19 on Feb 16, 2013 | Reply
S.C.JOE, I dont think it needs to take 3-4 yeares either. I think T64 feels that way but I'm not sure it will take that long. I doubt next year will be the year as there are simply too many holes to fill.Now, 2014 we could make some noise. We disagrree on Rex and that is a major reason I think next year will be more of the same.I have little doubt who will be under center next year as I see no way they cut him.If he is here,he will start! The only way he doesn't is if they draft Gino Smith or Tyler Wilson as they are the only 2 Q.B's who might be ready to play right away as they are more seasoned and more polished. Not saying they are the long term best Q.B's in this draft, but they have both started a lot and seem the most ready to go now.
By scjoe on Feb 16, 2013 | Reply
64, the word "compete" and the word "Sanchez" should not be mentioned in the same sentence. No, when I say compete I am assuming they saw in Mark Sanchez what we saw in Mark Sanchez and move on. I believe that ANYONE they move on to, would be an immediate upgrade. That said, tell me, you think this team could compete with maybe a Matt Moore starting, Maybe Bradshaw at RB, maybe a dynamic OLB(1st round) who can actually put pressure on the QB, a healthy Holmes and Edwards, improvement from D Davis AND S Hill? And all of that can not be defined as a pipe dream, all of that is easily within reach, anything beyond that is gravy. think again my friend, Remember, I am not saying we are winning the SB. Just competing.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Waiting to Score Points on Feb 16, 2013 | Reply
Maybe 2014, Ronbo, but certainly not next yr will we even be competitive. We might be competitive in 2014 but like you say, even that's unlikely without a new HC, a turnover of a big chunk of the roster, a very smart and immediately productive draft (when was the last time THAT'S happened, asked the guy who's still waiting for Wilson and Ducasse to prove their worth?), and of course a new QB who shines along the lines that R. Wilson did this yr.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for a Sane NFL on Feb 17, 2013 | Reply
The team you describe with Moore and Bradshaw, scjoe, sound like it might struggle to compete for a 9-7 luckout Wild Card spot and then get blown out in the first round, but not much more. When I talk about competing, I'm thinking of something a little more exciting than that.
By Ronbo19 on Feb 18, 2013 | Reply
S.C.Joe, while I think you make your usual excellent points with the players you list as upgrades, a lot would have to fall in place for those things to happan.There would have to be some major contract restructuring to sign Bradshaw & Moore?On the other hand, 64 is right when he says that might get us to 8-8 or 9-7? I'm wondering what happaned to the S.C.Joe who used to advocate "aiming higher"?
I'm assuming your thinking we need to take things incrementally which I'm cool with, I'm just thinking the higher we pick the sooner we can effect real change here.So I'm wondering, how much 8-8 or 9-7 would retard our progress ?
By scjoe on Feb 18, 2013 | Reply
Ron, a lot would have to fall in place for ANY major improvements to happen. What I am proposing are realistic moves, not over the top, over paid FA signings. Moore and Bradshaw (as examples) should not break the bank, but at the same time they will allow the Jets to be more competitive then the past few years, the draft picks, along with any trade and/or additional picks for Revis should translate into promise for the future, assuming that most are hits. That is as close as you come to "best of both worlds" considering the cap. You can only raise the bar so much if the resources are not in place.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for a Sane NFL on Feb 18, 2013 | Reply
Exactly right, Ronbo, 8-8 or 9-7 and a meaningless playoff game is worthless and nothing should be done in pursuit of that. I'll even suffer thru another season of just Sanchez and McElroy if it's clear that we're rebuilding seriously and waiting to pick a QB next yr, and I'm a lot older than plenty of folks on this site and have been suffering as a Jet fan for a lot longer. Besides, McElroy would no doubt replace Sanchez by Week 4 even if Rex rigged the competition again…
By GaryC on Feb 19, 2013 | Reply
Why would you sign Bradshaw and retard the progress of McKnight and Powell and a possible draft pick that comes in to boot,This GIANT AFFLICTION that people have with ex giants is amazing,Bradshaw is a fumbler and injury prone,just what we need.
By scjoe on Feb 19, 2013 | Reply
64, I do not want to see Sanchez OR McElroy (based on that one start) as the opening day starter. Here are some options, in this order, Matt Moore- Alex Smith-Matt Flynn-Chad Henne-Drew Stanton (if the bridges are not completely burned down) or that high mid round draft pick. A couple may have to come via trade, a couple may have to restructure, but that is everyday bussiness in the NFL. I, unlike you, can not go another season watching Mark Sanchez play, no matter what is at stake!
By scjoe on Feb 19, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, what "progress" are you referring to re: Powell and McKnight? Cause frankly, I haven't seen any!
By scjoe on Feb 19, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, Bradshaw is a proven commodity, so to speak, and is an immediate upgrade to both McKnight and Powell, and not much older, what is the downside?
By scjoe on Feb 19, 2013 | Reply
GaryC-3, that assessment you gave of Bradshaw (injury prone fumbler) sounds a whole lot like a RB already on the roster.
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for a Sane NFL on Feb 20, 2013 | Reply
That GIANT AFFLICTION joke is classic, GaryC! On the other hand, scjoe, I'll never argue too much with a guy who says he just can't stand to watch Sanchez under center for more than taking a knee with 30 seconds to go. As several others have said, he may not be the worst Jet QB of all time, but he's certainly had the most chances to really win the starting job in proportion to his limited skills.
By Ronbo19 on Feb 20, 2013 | Reply
S.C.Joe, Read BYRDMANS post concerning brokendown R.B's being like race car tires, that says it all. Luv ya baby but no, I dont want Bradshaw, Mendenhall or any other re-tread R.B's!. BYRDMAN is absoloutely right, there's only so much tread on a tire and when it wears out its time to replace it. Thats why the govt out- lawed re-tread tires, they just dont hold up bro. Now, I agree Bradshaw if healthy is better than anybody on our current roster, I just dont think he's worth the risk as when he goes down theres more dead money on the cap.
By GaryC on Feb 20, 2013 | Reply
so scjoe,what you are saying then it is a lateral move,then an upgrade,in my words.Look,Bradshaw will never be better then he was with the giants,players are like stock,got to catch them on an upward rise.
By Ronbo19 on Feb 20, 2013 | Reply
S.C.JOE, Sorry to hear your under the weather dude. Hang in there but stay away from Randy's other active blog as Byrdman & Tom64 are throwing around a bunch of multi syllable words so I have absoloutely no idea of that the heck their talking about(LOL)
Later bro, feel better!
By scjoe on Feb 20, 2013 | Reply
GaryC, I didn't say it would be a lateral move, you did! No matter where he played before, no matter what reference there may be to used tires, Bradshaw (if healthy, and if affordable) is an "upgrade" to anyone on the Jets roster called a RB. Will it get done? Probably not, but give me Bradshaw to McKight or Powell any Sunday afternoon.
By scjoe on Feb 20, 2013 | Reply
Ron, thanks bro! Finally starting to function. Now, let me go over to that active blog you were talking about and read some intellectual Jets material(;-)
By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Ready for a Sane NFL on Feb 20, 2013 | Reply
Ronbo, you gotta go read my post on that other story about the very simple words that I call Rex and Sanchez which, er, tend not to make the grade with Randy. scjoe, it's freezing cold even out here in L.A. so I can't help you there, rest at home until you're ready to golf again in the warm sun at Hilton Head.