text:
um, when do you think glyphs were introduced?
Other than desth strike do you have another short term resource dump like deathstrike that you could be using to keep yourself alive, which isn't a CD? a WoG/Sbar/FR/Chi Burst equivalent?
DK's were doing "active mitigation" through the use of death strike well before glyphs were even introduced.
We can argue this all day Teng.
My main point is DK's aren't an all-in-one active mitigation. Blood shield works to reduce incoming physical damage only.
No one tanks in a void.........
um, when do you think glyphs were introduced?
Other than desth strike do you have another short term resource dump like deathstrike that you could be using to keep yourself alive, which isn't a CD? a WoG/Sbar/FR/Chi Burst equivalent?
Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
MoP RPS Calculator
Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.
DK's really had not choice BUT to actively mitigate (at least in blood spec).
One of the talents (I don't recall the exact name) acts very similarly to enraged regen, but that choice comes at the expense of a stronger talent. Consumes runic power over a period of time.
Again.... I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest with you Teng. I'm pointing out that your statement is not entirely true.
All 4 classes have MUCH more in common now than they ever had in the past. The differences keep becoming smaller as time has gone on.
No one tanks in a void.........
A.M. is why I have loved my dk all through cats, even when we were weak in t11. Yet it still doesn't feel like a choice between more dmg or mitigation since our blood shield stacks and it's really nice to be able to have it stacked for when you taunt the boss back. Though I do fear that with the complication of stats with active mitigation if blizz will feel that they need to dumb things down and make stat priorities less confusing.
Just so I'm not being ambiguous:
Druids: Savage Defense (60 Rage to use) and Frenzied Regen (can be used with less than 60 Rage unless glyphed)
Paladins: Shield of the Righteous (3 out of 5 HP to use) or Word of Glory (weaker effect with less than 3 HP)
Warriors: Shield Block (60 Rage to use) and Shield Barrier (can be used with less than 60 Rage)
Active Mitigation is the art of building up enough resource to use the hard cost one, or saving your tail by using the soft cost one and usually setting yourself back to 0 resource when you do.
Pre-MoP, druids didn't have to manage either of those things (you just got your dodge up above whatever the flavor of the patch was and called it enough). Your main goal as a bear tank was to generate enough Rage to keep threat on stuff in order to keep it hitting you for more Rage, and the only thing you needed to do was gear/spec for some level of survivability from the passives (Dodge mainly) because once you got and kept the thing's attention, it pretty much kept your rage bar full. You could button mash and keep threat once they beefed up the threat scaling to 500%, too.
Post-MoP drop, I'm watching the polarization (see what I did there) between the Dodge/Mastery heavy folks and the Hit/Exp/Crit folks happening, and it largely depends on your play style which one works better for you.
I don't ..... wait. Before I even say it. Blizzard COULD dumb it down, but they've already introduced a LOT of homogenization across the tanking classes. Really, all of them are apples v. oranges compared to Cata.... and apples v. pumpkins compared to Wrath.
I like that they've tried to ensure that no tank class is left out in the cold, as some were in Wrath (or anything preceeding). There were some fights that were just nasty if you weren't playing a certain class.
Active mitigation is a nice step in trying to keep the various tank classes interesting and unique, despite this "generalization" of the classes against each other. They're more like each other in the basic mechanics..... but how those play out varies enough to keep things interesting.
Just my two cents.
Edit: My post was targeted more towards uglie.
Tielyn.... you bring up some good points. And yeah, there is another sort of polarization going on..... but that's not new. Cata had its tank "polarization". So did Wrath and TBC. It just changed flavors between each.
No one tanks in a void.........
A lot of the polarization is becuase they have made stats Interesting/boring. YOu could look it at as 90% of secondary stats are good for you so just get lots, so it's quite forgiving for gearing, there's no "oh your not CTC capped? well you can't tank" going on. on the
other hand you you stats actually are interesting and you can tailor them to the encounter, THere is no 100% right way to gear anymore. if you want to gear optimally for each encounter you can, if you want to follow a general guidline that will work for most things too, anyone saying X is right Y is wrong is missing the point,
Harsh Words and Steel: A Protection Warrior Guide
MoP RPS Calculator
Hunters, Just get a Sporebat, most LFRs will be missing that buff.
I realize this maybe an RNG thing, but in the fights where I favored SD, Healers spend a lot of time on me, which they didn't when I used FR. This time was then spend healing the raid. I agree on the boring fight part. (Though, seeing as we are a pretty casual raid, people do make it interesting by not avoiding stuff.)The thing is Total damage reduction is not a good metric for tank survivability, it wasn't in wrath, and it wasn't in cata, and it still isn't in MoP.the Bleed may be the main source of damage in that fight, but it in and of itself is not going to kill; its what 30k DPS? at least 10 seconds of no healing before it kills you. Each dog hits as hard as morchok HC did. It's not a tank survivability fight. even without active defenses we're looking at a good 5-6 seconds of taking it to the face before we keel over. Its a don't stand in stuff whilst the the tanks juggle mobs fight. Its a boring fight once you learn the mechanics.
I don't quite understand the data you seem to be working off of. It's possible my understanding is flawed. In one of our kills, I used FR exclusively since it made our healer's life easier. In that fight, Rend Flesh gets refreshed every six seconds, with the occasional skip to 12 seconds (meaning I dodged the meele attack). With a 15 second duration, that means I either need to dodge the initial attack and every further attack six seconds later to avoid the application completely, OR dodge between two and three times on demand to allow the bleed to fall off and then again every six seconds. Granted, I have been stacking mastery and capped hit and expertise (soft) instead of dodge, but that seems a rather risky gamble considering I could spend all that rage on heals to counter the bleed and some meele damage on top of it. (Of which, admitedly, I take more.) The long and the short of it is, that in every attempt we had, whenever I used SD in favor of SR, our healers had more trouble keeping me up and more importantly, spend time healing me rather than healing the raid. (We did have some bad luck with our combos though.) Now with better gear, maybe I should give SD another try.You only need to dodge two in a row for the bleeds to come off, and then every dodge after that keeps it off. Managed to dodge a few times in a row after having it fall off and spent 37 seconds bleed free, which isn't a 'lot' for a 7+ minute fight, but I'll take saving my healers 1.4 million in damage to heal any day.
I gotta admit, I mostly miss bearcatting, but I fully recognize Blizzards reasons for removing it. I used to enjoy trying to maximise my Threat and DPS while still tanking and managing my defensive cooldowns. A large part of this was Maul, switching to cat for a few bleeds etc. Now that losing your rage hurts so much, I find myself not doing this at all.At least three of the tank classes (Warrior, Druid, Paladin) use the binary 'this or that with defensive resource' choice. I can't speak on monks or death knights, but those three got that as their Active Mitigation mechanic. It's less boring than not needing to worry about choices at all, I suppose, and we didn't lose a lot of spells, so may I humbly ask what made bears more interesting to you pre-MoP that you're missing now? Or is it that you see that other tank classes have more buttons/functionality overall?
I do have more buttons to push on my other tanking classes, though a large part of this is due to the shapeshift mechanic. As long as we are actively tanking, a lot of our abilities might as well not exist which is not the case for most tanking classes. Case in Point, our raid loses my raid CD (Tranquility) completely in the Stoneguard fight, simply because its unusuable in bear. A DK can still use chains of ice for example, but my roots and cyclone are unusuable. (Asside from NS)
I do realize this could be a "the grass is greener" thing, which would mean I created my first whine post without wanting to. In which case, I apologize. It's that the "active" tanking feels a lot more passive because I press the same buttons over and over. When I tank on my DK, I find myself trying to judge exactly when to use Deathstrike, when to dump Runic Power etc. Its reactive to the unique conditions of the situation.
On my Druid, I just press SD whenever I can unless I know a cast or move phase is upcomming or FR when not tanking (or tanking Stoneguards). It feels scripted: "Do x until 60 rage then press SD". I do generate ressources and spend them on FR instead of having passive dodge, but with few exceptions, there is very little reason not to press SD once you have the 60 rage to do so. I find it hard to properly express this, but fishing for SD procs in Cata kind of felt more active than waiting for mangle procs and the 60 rage to press SD. I realize this a feeling and not a hard fact.
From my perspective, considering the changes made to talents/glyphs..... wasn't that kind of the intention? To make it where you could run with a general spec, or, if you really wanted to tweak a toon to a specific encounter, you could also do that? "Could" being the important word, meaning that a lot would be left to interpretation of the individual....... or the guild/group they're with demanding something in particular. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was the impression I got from some of the pre-MoP dev chatter.
Interesting side note: this is a little bit of a throwback to the days of TBC, where, iirc, it was not uncommon for raid members to fly back to Shattrath to respec completely for a particular fight (or for the whole raid to change composition in order to tailor itself to an encounter). It's a little different, but it reminds me a bit of that.
No one tanks in a void.........
It is interesting that the stat priorities are so close to each other relative to previous expansions and compared to other roles. This allows more of the performance of the tank to be focused on actual rotation/skill rather than researching what stats to focus on. In a way the stat situation helps allow newer tanks to pick up the role but the skill check can give them a rude awakening if they don't know what they are doing.
Also as far as DK's go, just because blood shield only works on physical damage doesn't change the fact that they only have one button to push. They are the only tank that doesn't have an either/or system for active mitigation... also their active mitigation is an integral part of their dps rotation as well. Where as druids/warriors (not sure on monks and paladins gain damage from theirs as well) have to sacrifice mitigation in order to boost dps. You could say they would not be optimally using death strike if they were focusing on dps, but their is a big difference between not optimal and completely sacrificing mitigation. I gu
Last edited by Takethecake; 10-24-2012 at 09:10 AM.
Lysiander --
The 'optimum' (IMHO, very, very, IMHO) place you want to be is where you can get into a rhythm of having SD up as much as possible while having FR available if you need it. Data is here: (http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...752#post558752)
If you don't feel like jumping through the link, the gist is:
In the log that's in that post, I kept my SD uptime at 49%, and my girlfriend kept hers at 34%, and both of us have windows (37 seconds and 14 seconds respectively) of fully dodged Rend Flesh in the same log (which we downed the boss on). We also had enough wiggle room for Frenzied Regen casts in there (26 for me and 14 for her) when the healers were busy, out of range, or OOM, which they were for the last 12% of the fight.
* If you use FR exclusively, you're going to get hit by every single Rend Flesh and pretty much every melee - with non-raid gear, you can probably get your dodge up to 14 or 15% at best.
* If you use SD exclusively, when the RNG doesn't favor you, the Rend Flesh will eat your healer mana anyway. There's another log in there where I had a higher SD uptime (51%) and the Rend Flesh only fell off once for all of 6 seconds.
If you're wondering 'why bother, then?' Because the other thing you're dodging is that melee. It may not seem like it hits for that much, but it adds up -- 114 melee dodges = 2 million damage prevented. And if you manage to slough off Rend Flesh while you're dodging melee, that's a win-win.
That being said: I've had a lot of practice time on this, so I have my fingers trained around it. I've been over on the beta ever since the final SD/FR switch went live, and hated the near-release versions before they fixed it so you got more rage for white swings. Stacking Mastery only helps versus the melee attacks, not the bleeds; Telamir had 1% more mastery than I do but she's taking the exact same damage (39600 a tick) from bleeds -- but if you're taking less by stacking Mastery, _please_ do correct me, because I'm very wrong then. She got hit by more melee (only 68 dodges) and took more Rend Flesh damage than I do, while having the double dogs less than I did. On the other paw... she'd only been practicing with the new system for about a day and a half. (She's a -very- quick study, and she kicks my tail in Feral Cat, which is her main spec.)
I'm having the most success with 'wait until SD's buff hits 0 seconds, and by default hit SD to refresh it', but also checking my health at the time and not being afraid to cash out my FR if I need it. I'm saving my cooldowns for the points where I just had to zero out my Rage with an FR, so I'm taking less damage while I'm rebuilding Rage, and in a lot of ways Enrage is now a mini-defensive cooldown(!) instead of the offensive one it used to be -- save it for when you need a lot of Rage -fast- along with Berserk.
Mostly you have to get the flow down of generating Rage while you're fiddling with other stuff. Having a second brain on the other side of the room that is running the same calculation as you are (which dog gets taunted next) is much easier than having an OT that doesn't know which dog they should have (demonstrated by my horrible 18% SD uptime the first day we were in there).
Stacking crit with hit/exp makes it a lot easier for me, because I tend to have more Rage at my disposal more often.
However. I did notice that the new mammoth has a portable reforger -- that might well indicate that there will be fights where I'll want to stack Dodge/Mastery for some reason.... same goes for the ability to redo your talents and glyphs on a per-fight basis. The thing that highlighted this for me was the paladin saying, "Hey, are there any stuns we can do on these? I can respec for Repentance but I don't have it right now."
PS. And yeah. I miss bearcatting too. I miss the utility of being the invisible third tank when our normal DPS-only tanks weren't cutting it, and being able to intervene and control the fight at will on various things or if a tank ate the floor was an awesome stunt. And no, I agree with you, I also did the 'fish for SD procs in Cata' thing, which is why I went crit/haste instead of dodge/mastery in Cata, and that's the other reason my bearcat DPS went through the roof while being less squishy at the same time.
PPS. Also, I tried playing with Force of Nature. I got three trees that have 41K health apiece, which means they're good for at best two hits, and they taunt off of you, which can have disastrous effects if they turn the boss at the wrong moment. They're a lot like Army of the Dead. Apparently on the beta they used to give a 20% damage absorb to you _and_ the raid for 15 seconds, usable once a minute, and if they had kept that? I would definitely take that since when used concurrently with Barkskin, that would be 25 seconds out of every minute taking 20% less damage. Right now, definitely not worth it.
Last edited by Tielyn; 10-24-2012 at 02:21 PM.
So..... what it sounds like is that, everyone is upset because DK's have an advantage at the moment?
That's really how a lot of this (not just your post, but others) comes across..... except no one is flat-out stating that.
Please realize, at one time, DK's were WOEFULLY behind the power curve. Actually, for most of their existence, and with the exception of a few fights in which their ability to self-heal as part of a TANKING approach (it's not a dps rotation.... in a dps "rotation", you're not potentially holding back on a single attack SOLELY for the purpose of a heal after receiving damage) really made the class shine, they've had to struggle for the most part.
So... for once, they might truly be sitting in the primo tank position, instead of playing second fiddle to the paladin, warrior.... or, as it was in some cases, to the druid (who has been traditionally, another wayward class left to suffer in the shadow of paladins and warriors). Get over it. Adapt. Survive.
I mean, isn't that what was told to the DK community all this time? SITFU?
Yes, I am being snarky and somewhat sarcastic..... if you couldn't guess. Simple reality is.... shit changes all the time in this game. Some classes will have an advantage over others for a while, and others will lag behind. This is just ONE minor advantage that DK's have currently and is probably only so much of an issue because by and large, the MAJORITY of the tank population IS paladins and warriors, as they WERE arguably the best/easiest tank for 90% of WoW to date, and that large population is now suddenly feeling slighted.
Try and discuss this stuff objectively please.... and realize that this is the opening stages of an expansion with the new tanking mechanic. It's GOING to change before we're done with MoP, and classes will shuffle positions again, as they always have. HELP your fellow warriors and paladins adapt and thrive. And SEND feedback to the devs on the forums!!!! Heck... you guys might see a heal incorporated into revenge or shield slam in the future in order to further homogenize the classes.
No one tanks in a void.........
To me it just sounds that people are pointing out that DKs do not follow the same active mitigation choice design as other tanks have, because Death Strike is (and has been since WotLK) the all-in-one active mitigation button.
I won't touch the WotLK design, because even Blizzard accepts that it was far from ideal (although I do miss Frost DW tanking sometimes), I didn't really see major issues with DK tanks in Cataclysm. Granted, I quit heroic raiding after T11, but if DKs were able to do normal just fine, I don't really see how woefully behind they could be.Please realize, at one time, DK's were WOEFULLY behind the power curve. Actually, for most of their existence, and with the exception of a few fights in which their ability to self-heal as part of a TANKING approach (it's not a dps rotation.... in a dps "rotation", you're not potentially holding back on a single attack SOLELY for the purpose of a heal after receiving damage) really made the class shine, they've had to struggle for the most part.
I also want to point out that as long as you're not sitting on runes, you're not losing DPS, you're simply shifting it to a point where the added effect is more useful. The only exchange of survivability vs DPS a DK has is using Death runes on Heart Strike over Death Strike and I don't know if that's even a DPS increase on a single target.
Not by me and afaik, not by most Tankspot members. In fact, I used to tell "omg I can't tank this because of my class" DKs exactly what you said: "Get over it. Adapt. Survive."So... for once, they might truly be sitting in the primo tank position, instead of playing second fiddle to the paladin, warrior.... or, as it was in some cases, to the druid (who has been traditionally, another wayward class left to suffer in the shadow of paladins and warriors). Get over it. Adapt. Survive.
I mean, isn't that what was told to the DK community all this time? SITFU?
Objectively, I don't think that for players invested into being the best, Death Strike being a double effect button is not an advantage at all. The points in a fight where you want to heal and you want a shield are not always aligned and I believe that Blizzard assumed the heal to be part of the "passive" damage mitigation/mini-heals similar to Paladin Seal of Truth or Druid Leader of the Pack. I would say the biggest advantage DKs have right now is the no-cost Anti-Magic Shell (and the talented Zone) for magic fights.Yes, I am being snarky and somewhat sarcastic..... if you couldn't guess. Simple reality is.... shit changes all the time in this game. Some classes will have an advantage over others for a while, and others will lag behind. This is just ONE minor advantage that DK's have currently and is probably only so much of an issue because by and large, the MAJORITY of the tank population IS paladins and warriors, as they WERE arguably the best/easiest tank for 90% of WoW to date, and that large population is now suddenly feeling slighted.
Try and discuss this stuff objectively please.... and realize that this is the opening stages of an expansion with the new tanking mechanic. It's GOING to change before we're done with MoP, and classes will shuffle positions again, as they always have. HELP your fellow warriors and paladins adapt and thrive. And SEND feedback to the devs on the forums!!!! Heck... you guys might see a heal incorporated into revenge or shield slam in the future in order to further homogenize the classes.
I think Death Strike is a tool that works well in all situations, as the heal (and thus the absorb) are based on ALL damage taken. As long as the melee-to-magic ratio isn't so low you shield yourself for more than the melee you take, DS is working at full capacity.
As a Warrior, you have to chose between a melee-only damage reduction or an absorb all button, but the shield generally absorbs less physical damage than Shield Block could mitigate if most/all damage is melee. I think the major difference between these two models is that Death Knights need to know when to press their button, while other tanks are shifted more towards which button to press.In short: Choice means options, options means choice.
You coud say: DKs don't have to chose between mitigation buttons.
But on the other hand: DKs can't chose between mitigation buttons.
I think this is a trade-off that is there because of how classes were designed earlier and they didn't want to change ALL the buttons, but in the end, does it even matter? Both models revolve around handling resources to prevent or heal up damage. Sure they are different, but as long as the external healing required is similar, who cares?
In Dutch, we have a word meaning "of equal value/worth", which differs itself from "equal" as not meaning "being the same".
In that way, I could easily say that all tank classes are "of equal value", but they aren't "equal".
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
Which really brings me to this point. Every tank class seems to take turns at being "the best." Right now, as it's been said, the separation I feel is no longer significant enough and everyone seems extreamly viable (not sure on monks yet as I haven't run with a monk tank yet). To me, that's exciting.
While it's been weird getting used to not stacking stam, embracing haste, and not having those 10 seconds of backside clenching panic at the beginning of a hard fight where you're trying to establish solid aggro, overall I think the active mitigation system is fantastic and its one of the things that made me love my paladin again (wasn't a fan of cata).
Last edited by Valhathos; 10-25-2012 at 05:37 PM.
Monks are pretty cool to raid with and as a druid tank you get an extra dodge cd when you put symbiosys on them.
This is going to sound like a class whine, but I'll try to keep it balanced... I do need to get it off my chest though.
I like the concept of active mitigation a lot. I like feeling that my performance, my 'working harder' or 'playing better' keeps me alive where someone else might have died. At least, I like that as a player. As a raid leader, it puts a lot more pressure on me when selecting who is going to tank in progression fights, as I have to worry that much more about who I select... but that's another issue. I got my warrior up to 90, and I did get some sense that active mitigation was working. There were a few hairy pulls or under-geared boss fights where I felt that the way I managed my rage generation and minor cooldowns was a factor in keeping me alive. At the same time though, I just didn't like the *feel* of the new rage system, nor the new shield block/barrier. It feels clunky, it feels as though they broke up the warrior rotation into constituent parts then glued them back together in a different shape. Shield block feels underwhelming, shield barrier just doesn't feel of much at all... you have to be aware of the maths and the probabilities to understand what they are doing for you.
Then I leveled my DK. It is like night and day. The blood DK design has been iterated on several times, it barely changed with MOP and is now pretty slick. It was pretty slick (bordering OP) towards the end of Cataclysm. The direct feedback on deathstrike (and the skill involved in maxing deathstrike effectiveness), the array of minor cooldowns that can be juggled, the resource system... to me at least, it feels pretty complete. I was left wondering why I would want to play a warrior (broken up, and stuck together in the image of the deathknight) when I could just play the death knight. And so that's what I'm doing.
I appreciate that this is all terribly subjective. I'm sure there must be plenty of warriors that like the new rage system. To me, it feels like a bad twist on combo points. I think the latest change to Avatar on the PTR adds insult to injury, taking away the rage generation component turns it from a nice example of a flexible cooldown that helps the tank 'actively mitigate a bit harder' (like an overdrive button, and indeed not unlike dancing rune weapon) into a pure dps tool that can probably be ignored. I have no idea how Blizzard would 'fix' the problems that I perceive. I think a lot of it tracks back to the concept of 'blocking damage with shields', which is a core part of the warrior kit, but which I don't think they've ever really found a good way of turning into a gameplay mechanic (despite many different attempts).
-- Tielyn
Sorry for not replying earlier. Our last raid got canceled due to the servers being down and I didn't have that much time the past week. We did kill Stone Guards again tonight. First, let me say mastery definately does not affect Rend Flesh, it completely bypasses the armor. My log shows the exact same 39.600 ticks yours does and I assume there is a major difference in gear and mastery between the time you made that log and my current 470ish gear. I got those numbers across multiple logs, all with different mastery values for me, so the only conclusion is that armor doesn't play any role at all.
I did go for SD on this kill and got it to 56% uptime, which is low but I did have to throw in the occasional FR. Despite trying hard and even kiting some, I only managed to drop the bleed once, but one fight is a small sample size. I can say my HP do feel a lot more spiky when using SD over FR. With small burst FR I retained a relatively stable ~60-80% HP. With SD I spend a lot of time in the 20-40% range. Though, overall, I did take both less damage and less healing and my gear hasn't changed at all I think. The overall dodges, 34 without SD vs 152 with SD are noticable though.
Im still not entirely convinced that SD works better on that fight, since I generally value stability over the amount of damage I take. My healers didn't feel much of a difference either way and seemed to actually prefer me to do self healing because it leads to less ciritcal moments. However trying to get more data and keeping SD up did kind of force me to play harder, which also buffed my damaged somewhat nicely. Its seems I've been neglecting my thrash bleed (not the weakened blows, only the bleed) before. Damn self build UIs and my negligence to update spellIDs.
Generating rage hasn't been much of a problem so far, with the exception of big trash packs where I find little time to mangle in the beginning. Once Trash ticked a few times and vengeance kicks in, I have more room for it to actually get some rage, but early on it seems nigh impossible to use mangle without losing a couple of mobs. But then, my DPS is a bit trigger happy sometimes. I gotta say though, the new vengeance mechanic makes AE tanking with multiple tanks a pain. Its basically whoever has the larger initial burst agro that gets the vengeance first, and from there on, its basically impossible to keep up unless you keep taunt on CD. This isn't a druid problem, but a pretty big design flaw IMO.
I've been playing around with talents a lot, and it's kinda dissapointing that I can't seem to find fights for HotW yet. The long cooldown really is a killer and few fights allow you to leave the other tank on his own for 45 seconds. I do enjoy Incarnation plus Nature's Virgil though. Especially during Feng p2 and p3 its a nice combo to have. I don't get why Incarnation is on the GCD though. I haven't actually dared to try FoN in raids yet, for the same reason you state, they potentially move bosses. So far, every encounter I've seen is position sensitive, so that's a nono. I actually wouldn't mind a set of glyphs that turns them into the other specs versions.
On the topic of reforging, I have been going for Hit /Exp 7.5% > Mastery > Crit > Haste so far, but I'm beginning to wonder wether I shouldn't just abandon both mastery and dodge in favor of Hit/Exp/Crit. Doing so would lose me about 7.000 armor but net me roughly 10% crit.
Im kinda beginning to wonder wether I misjudged agility. After the MoP launch, the larger boni from gems seemed to juicy to pass up, so I've been gemming a lot of hit and expertise since those were the stats I needed capped and most of my gear is crit/mastery by now. Is anyone aware of a place were the math on the value of agility has already been done so I don't spend the hours to do it myself? I'd be curious on your gemming/ reforging strategy as well Tielyn.
-- swelt
You kinda describe the same I've been trying to say. My DK feels a lot more "smooth" than my bear does. Maybe its the one button rotation, maybe Im playing my bear wrong. Its a subjective thing.
-- On the topic of tanks in general
No amount of OPness in the past justifies OPness in the present. MMOs aren't a "you had yours, now I want mine" thing. That being said, these days it feels a lot like Bliz managed their different tanks for different fights goal. I've only seen Monk, DK, Druid and Paladin so far, but tanking seems to be a matter of playstyle mostly. If anything, Monks feel a bit powerful right now, but that was kind of to be expected. My tanking partner Monk did get to play a lot more beta than I did though, so this could be simple practice.
The only place I have seen that HotW is of any use is at the pull on Gara'jal if your tanking second as the first Banish isnt for 60 secs so you can get the full 45 secs Wrath spamming. As you can swap weapons in combat using a caster staff isn't a problem.


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Foolage is the the doing of something foolish, And using the power of the internet, we add age instead of ish. Foolage is also the name of the website Foolage.com, Home to Animal Crossing-Inspired Videos and comics, Amongst many other things.
Replace I am sick of all this foolishness; with I am sick of all this Foolage!
von Captain Foolage 25. Mai 2007


text:
SAVAGE, Md. - State officials say a power outage caused by superstorm Sandy at a water reclamation plant has resulted in a sewage overflow of 2 million gallons per hour into the main stem of the Little Patuxent River.
Officials say the overflow began Monday night when a storm-induced power supply loss from both electrical feeders caused the overflow.
Crews with the Bureau of Utilities are working with BGE to restore power.
Officials say because of the severity of Hurricane Sandy, no action is being currently being taken to mitigate the damage.
(Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)


text:
Prabal Gurung is the hot eveningwear label of choice right now, for everyone from Leighton Meester to Michelle Obama. And in the last few weeks, the New York-based designer has been racking up more red carpet hits than we can keep up with…well, almost. And it's easy to see why!
Prabal's incredible use of colour and standout silhouettes make a modern and exciting choice for up-and-coming actresses like Jennifer Lawrence and Shailene Woodley who are out to wow the fash pack. But it's not often that a designer - especially with a label as young as this - is so irresistible to half of Hollywood, as well as America's First Lady!
However, Mr Gurung has been perfecting his craft way longer than the three years since his label launched at New York Fashion Week. After graduating at Parsons School of Design (during which time he also interned at Donna Karan, no less), Prabal worked at Cynthia Rowley where he designed for three years before becoming design director at Bill Blass for a further five. Then in February 2009, the Singapore-born designer began creating under his own name. And it wasn't long before he was turning the heads of industry bigwigs, earning himself one of the sought after design studios at the CFDA Fashion Incubator for 2010-2012 - an incredible platform for emerging talents, not to mention his jam-packed show being one of NYFW's hottest tickets.
And it seems the entire A-list world is in agreement - we're talking Michelle Obama, Zoe Saldana, Amanda Seyfried, Carey Mulligan to name but a few. Prabal's mouth-watering combination of expert tailoring, beautiful dressmaking and entrancing print work have made his clobber a red carpet failsafe and it's hard to ignore the fact that Sarah Jessica Parker has stepped out in more PG outfits in the last year than she has any other designer. We have to say, SJP, if we could, we so would too!
To see more stars and designers under Grazia's style spotlight, click here.


text:
The Museum of Modern Betas
MoMB (Museum of Modern Betas) is an interesting list we all should keep up with. As the creators of the list describe it: "The 50 most anticipated applications in the webosphere, as measured by the number of bookmarks at del.icio.us for apps which are not publicly released yet."
Add new comment
Definitely think the current dgeisn wins over these three spend the money and get a decent dgeisner. These dgeisns make it look like your site was dgeisned in the late 90's. I understand that you probably don't want to go all corporate, but there are dgeisners able to balance a clean, time-appropriate look that maintains the authenticity and personality of an individual (rather than generic corporate / professional) site. I do think that you should stay with the green theme though.


text:
|How to report a bug
How to report an addon bug
Before reporting a bug, there are a few quick troubleshooting steps you can try that might even fix the problem right away, but will at least give you some useful info to include in your report.
Remember, the more information you can give me, the faster I can find and fix the bug!
1. Make sure you have the latest version of the addon.
If the addon doesn't have an in-game About panel, you can find out which version you have by opening the "AddonName.toc" file inside its addon folder in Notepad. (For example, if you're looking for Grid's version number, you'd open the "Grid.toc" file.)
If in doubt, delete the addon, download a fresh copy, and reinstall it to make sure.
2. See if the problem happens when all other addons are disabled.
Log out of your character, click the AddOns button in the lower left, click the Disable All button, and then find the addon in the list and enable it (but not any others). This is important because I have no way to know whether your other addons are all up to date, how you have them set up, etc. so if the problem is a conflict between addons, it may be impossible for me to find and fix it without your help!
3. See if the problem happens with the addon's default settings.
If the addon has a profile system, you can just switch to a new profile. If the addon does not have a profile system, log out of the game, find the addon's saved variables file(s), and rename or delete it/them. Saved variables files may be in one or both of these locations:
4. Check to see if the bug was already reported
Check the addon's bug tracker to see if the bug was already reported. If it was, feel free to add more information by commenting on the bug, but please don't submit another report about the same bug.
5. Report the bug!
Submit a new ticket in the bug tracker. Copy this list into your ticket and fill in as much of the information as you can:
If the problem is graphical, or you aren't sure your description is clear enough, upload a screenshot and include the link in your ticket.
If the addon is a plugin for another addon, you should also include the name and version of the parent addon. For example, if you are reporting a bug in a DataBroker plugin, you should include the name and version of your DataBroker display.
If the problem only happens with other addons enabled, take a few minutes to enable your other addons one at a time until you figure out which addons are conflicting, and then include the other addon's name and version.
If the problem only happens with your settings (but not with default settings), please upload your saved variables file(s) and include the links in your ticket, so I can load your settings and figure out why they are causing a problem.
6. Other notes
If you have more than one bug to report, please submit a separate ticket for each bug. Lumping multiple bugs together in one ticket defeats the purpose of a ticket system, since I can't
Remember to check on your ticket after a few days, in case I may need more information from you in order to find and fix the problem!


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Federation Commander
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Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 209
Location: Florida
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:44 pm
Post subject: Feds and drones
Just out of curiousity, why the addition of drone racks for Fed ships? Not that they aren't useful, particularly in scatter packs, but was just curious as to why they were later added in refits and such.
My other car is a D7 BattleCruiser.
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Lieutenant JG
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 48
Location: seattle
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:04 pm
Post subject:
The historical answer or the game design answer?
Quite frankly, I've played this game for so many years (not recently though) that the historical fluff escapes me.
Looking at the standard Fed CA workhorse, you've got six phaser 1's to handle offense and defense. Given a healthy D7, you'll have to give up two phasers per turn (or six with a scatter pack) and even more if the launch timing is well done. Offensive weaponry is then limited to your highly inaccurate photons.
One of the balance points for the Fed CA's heavy photon punch was the power cost (in warp engines) kept you slow. No one survives a point blank alpha strike of overloads.
As drone races and tactics developed, it became evident that the Fed needed more effective drone defense. They got a pair of phaser 3's with a little extra power. The CC had two 360 phasers and the plus refit got two RH phasers. However, giving the Fed plenty of extra power for phasers makes its photons again much more dangerous and the extra phasers creates weapon padding.
So, add simple drone 4 space standard drone rack and you have a power neutral drone/shuttle defense weapon. No additional power is added to the ship (keeping the photon loading and speed choices more difficult) and providing another slot on the DAC which softens the advantage of another weapon system.
So now you've got a Fed CA with a little bit deeper drone defense but, you don't get a phaser raft or another drone wave platform. This keeps the races unique and interesting.
"Damn the torpedoes, full spe........[squarrk]"
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Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 209
Location: Florida
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:17 am
Post subject:
A rear firing photon torpedo in its place would have/could be an interesting possibility. Useful in an overrun attack or a well timed HET. Perhaps not as effective as the Kaufman retrograde but it could be a good deterrent from someone trying to run you down from behind.
Just thinking out loud
My other car is a D7 BattleCruiser.
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Lieutenant JG
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 48
Location: seattle
Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:28 pm
Post subject:
A) True but, the rear firing photon wouldn't follow the historical patterns of the Franz Joseph designs or original TV series.
B) Your question regarded adding drones to Fed Ships. There were, of course, no drones in the series but, the introduction of Klingon and Kzinti drones deserve a response.
There are tons of design ideas which could make all SFB ships "better" but, SVC and crew have hewed pretty carefully to making ship designs that are race specific with advantages and flaws.
"Damn the torpedoes, full spe........[squarrk]"
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Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 209
Location: Florida
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:44 am
Post subject:
rulesjd wrote:
A) True but, the rear firing photon wouldn't follow the historical patterns of the Franz Joseph designs or original TV series.
I understand what your saying in regards to the Franz Joseph design and TOS. And as you say, TOS never had drones at all. After looking at the front and rear firing photons on the D7C in CL it just seems like a logical alternative for a rear firing torp on a larger Fed ships.
Again, just thinking outloud
My other car is a D7 BattleCruiser.
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text: Put the finishing touches on your homemade pizzs, pastries, cookies, cakes and other baked goodies with our high-quality Pizza & Cookie Box. It has perforated edges so the top can easily be torn off. It also has four air vents on the top panel and two on the back side panel to allow air to circulate. Use our unique gift tags, ribbons and stickers to create a truly customized gift presentation.


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Hearts + Minds
U2 Shop
Vertigo : Leg 3: 2005, North America
Tour News
> 'Information Overload'
Leg 3: 2005, North America
jump to another tour
Complete Willies Diary
360°: 2011
360°: 2010
360°: 2009
Vertigo: 2005/06
'Information Overload'
18 November 2010
'Information Overload'
Travel day. London to Auckland (day 1)
Back in the saddle as Team 360 reassembles itself from all corners of the globe. My flight wasn€™t until 21.45, so happily I had the whole day available before heading to Heathrow.
I had some work to do, still editing with Luke, and Run Wrake also came to the studio so we could copy the various hard drives of video material for the show. The digital age brings many blessings but perhaps a double-edged one is the ability to keep every version of every video clip we make. Seeing that the (comparatively small) amount of video content for this tour was about to fill a 4 TB drive, Luke set about rooting through the folders to see if there was anything that we could possibly live without (the 27 versions of the 'Your Blue Room' film, for example). I have heard the same from studio sound engineers, where every take of every song can be kept, stored, returned to if necessary. In U2€™s case, the mind boggles. There really is such a thing as information overload.
Got some bills paid and worked through the rest of my pre-flight 'to do' list which included laundry, renewing the van insurance, buying a book for the flight and hanging a mirrorball in a church bell tower in the City of London (it€™s something I do...)
Finally to Heathrow with that transition feeling that always accompanies days like this. Dials spinning, stepping off the jetty. This leg is where the travelling starts to ratchet up and it€™s a little disorientating to realise that we have almost as many shows to play as we have already played on this tour. Still, at least I think there€™s a good chance that we€™re in the final year of the tour now. But then you never know with this lot.
At the airport I ran into a few other tour personnel. I rather assumed we€™d all be on the same flight, but it turns out that there are many ways to get from London to Auckland. I€™m going via Singapore with three lampies and two video guys. RIchie€™s flight departs and leaves about the same time as ours but he€™s going via Bangkok, on his own. Eoin is going with Emirates through Dubai whilst Smasher heads in the polar opposite direction to New Zealand via L.A. It€™s Steff€™s birthday. He flew in from Belgium this morning and has been at Heathrow for most of the day, enjoying birthday drinks with many of his friends who have passed through at regular intervals. He got to Heathrow long before I did and yet it seems I€™ll beat him to Auckland by three hours, so he must have pissed somebody off in the travel department. Can you imagine trying to organise this lot? A global operation indeed.
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shacko - 02 December, 2010
One Day like this a year will see me rig
Catching up with your recent diary entries, I see you are feeling the effects of this tour of epic proportions. Can I just say that as a Fan on a tight budget I appreciate both the Band and your hard work. Every other U2 tour I could only afford to get to one show and then that is it for five years. Come the final show in Pittsburgh I will have seen one 360 show each year. Knowing I will see that one show a year is what gets me through the harsh winter. As Elbow say " One day like this a year will see me right. "
andyv - 24 November, 2010
Mirrorball in the City of London?
Willie which church? I searched the Web and couldn't find any reference to the mirrorball installation other than yours. I'll be in the City one evening next week and I'd like to go and see it in action.
dianep - 23 November, 2010
Bells to balls
Mirror ball in a church bell tower? Great idea, and arguably theologically sound. Spotlighting the faithful, rather than calling the faithful. I like it. Thanks for this bright spot on a dull day, Willie, and bon voyage!
tan_lejos_tan_cerca - 21 November, 2010
Enjoy Willie!! They must be really efficient to organise you, sure enough!!
stevie.Phisto.stein - 21 November, 2010
Welcome to NZ guys, now that you're here sit down and have a beer. Your hard work will pay off in 3 days!! It's going to be amazing :D Mt. Smart will lift off, no doubt about that.
stubby - 21 November, 2010
Welcome to New Zealand :)
camp1t - 21 November, 2010
Thanks for coming, can't wait
Ah yes, that convenient 24 hour flight from London! You'll be happy to know your tireless crew have already assembled the claw here in Auckland - I drove past today and saw the "radio mast" clearing the top of the stadium.
SacredRose - 20 November, 2010
Comedy of errors
Trying to organise everyone globally must have its comedy of errors with this lot...Hope everyone gets there safely and best wishes :)
teresa_88 - 20 November, 2010
good luck!
Hi Willie, Hope you'll have a great time Down Under! -- if anything, you've escaped the 5 to 10 degrees we have here in London -- down there it must be something like 360°, I figure. ;) Good luck to all of you guys and thanks for making us travel around with you! teresa
loveandpeace83 - 20 November, 2010
Always so nice reviews of "Willie's Diary ... Many details about everything and nothing ... Thank you for all these comments WILLIE. See you soon. Kisses loveandpeace83
lecina - 20 November, 2010
So many hours...
very soon Heathrow - Pekin - Sydney so many hours and days..but can't wait...queueing again...hahaha
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'I've loved it. Just loved it.' Homeward bound Willie grateful for an 'extraordinary tour'.
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'I'd agreed to see the Alexander McQueen show at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.' Day off in New York City for Willie.
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'It was a beautiful night and I enjoyed strolling, people-watching, window shopping.' Willie has a day off in New York.
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'The booths, the counter, the old boy on the stool with his gruff greeting...' Willie discovers a special food establishment.
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text:
(RDB) today reassured tourists and the business community that it is safe to travel to all parts of Rwanda
Serial no: RDB/COM/20121205
Kigali, 5 December 2012
The Rwanda Development Board (RDB) today reassured tourists and the business community that it is safe to travel to all parts of Rwanda. The situation in Eastern DRC has resulted in two isolated skirmishes on Rwandan territory which were rapidly contained and border security has been reinforced to prevent recurrence.
Clare Akamanzi, acting CEO of RDB, said that the Government of Rwanda guarantees peace and security in all tourist destinations across the country:
"We would like to reassure visitors that it is business as usual at all our tourism destinations. Travellers to Rwanda continue to enjoy the magnificent scenery, pleasant climate, rich culture and diverse wildlife in our national parks, including the rare mountain gorillas."
Ms Akamanzi noted that tourism has been successful over the past years and continues to be Rwanda's number one foreign exchange earner:
"While ecotourism remains the key attraction for visitors coming to the land of thousand hills, we are working to increase conference and events tourism, a goal that will be facilitated by newly registered hotel investments such as Marriott, Radisson Blu and most recently Sheraton."


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Department of Geography
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Department of Geography
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Welcome to the Department of Geography
The Department of Geography offers BA, MA and PhD degrees. We offer comprehensive and relevant curricula at all levels and have major research specialties in social and environmental justice, and climatology and hazards. We are especially interested in these relative to the urban environment and their impact on human health and well-being. While preparing our students with a strong theoretical base, our approach is very applied, utilizing state-of-the art geospatial technologies to understand these complex human-environment interactions.


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and found 1 items
618cc, 63bhp, 125mph, Insurance group 11
Yet another entry level Duke but the Ducati Multistrada 620 is more of an 'all-rounder' motorcycle to the Monsters' 'roadster'. The looks are an acquired taste and it's not got a whole lot up top in the power department but the Ducati Mulitstrada 620 is a good, practical first big motorcycle. A bit more oomph and a bigger tank would have made it even more ...
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DUNDALK, Md. (AP) - Fire officials say a man was critically injured in a house fire in Dundalk.
Baltimore County firefighters were called to the home shortly before 5 a.m. Monday. They pulled the male victim from the second floor.
Officials say the victim was taken to Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center with critical injuries. Police are investigating the fire.
(Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)


text:
HUNTINGTON, Ind. — On May 6, the Joe Mertz Center for Volunteer Service will be renamed to the Friesen Center for Volunteer Service in honor of Dr. Norris Friesen.
Friesen currently serves as the director of institutional effectiveness and a professor of German. He coordinates new faculty development, assists in developing and implementing strategies to recruit Chinese students, and organizes and leads cross-cultural experiences.
Friesen became dean of student services in 1985, and then was named vice president for student development in 1993. In 2002, he was appointed interim academic dean and in 2003 was appointed vice president and dean of the university while continuing to teach German.
Friesen earned a bachelor's degree in German from Tabor College, a master's degree in higher education administration from Kansas State University, and a PhD in counseling and student affairs administration from Purdue University. He focused on career development theory and counseling in his doctoral work at Purdue and continues to co-teach a course on career development theory in the Graduate Counseling program.
There will be a dedication ceremony at 4 p.m May 6 in the upper lobby of the Merillat Centre for the Arts in recognition of Friesen and his life-long commitment to serving others. Refreshments will be served immediately following the ceremony. This event is free and open to the public.
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Order today, receive no later than Friday, November 28th. Some limitations apply.
Sometimes your indecisiveness drives your man nuts. Lucky for you — and him — the Sawin top from DC can be worn two different ways. It features unfinished hems, distressed chain graphics and a high-low hem that you can wear either in the front or the back. It's the perfect look when you want to shake things up a bit.
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Movement 1: Evocation d'un tango
Movement 2: Réminiscence d'un charleston
Movement 3: Reflets d'un blues
Movement 4: Provocation de samba
The composer's preface to the score is worth reproducing here in its entirety (my translation):
A sonata in a state of jazz, like someone in a state of inebriation, hysteria, infatuation or inspiration, is not in a normal state. The resulting shock, the consequences, palpitations, excessive enthusiasm and drunkenness of the soul, force it to operate within a cubist logic, which only appears to be lucid when placed in the context of a certain kind of madness.
I have subjected a classically constructed composition to what I would call 'contamination by jazz'. Four personalities, indigenous to four specific locales—Buenos Aires, New York, New Orleans and Rio de Janeiro—are united by a common language which harks back to 1925 or thereabouts, but whose writing is inspired by the jazz of the 1950s; the Tango, the Charleston, the Blues and the Samba all unquestionably have their own individual personalities, but more significantly they all have specific characteristics which both differentiate and identify them organically, beyond concerns of rhythm or style.
The Tango, usually played by a small group including piano, accordion, drums and violin, is written in four beats to the bar. The intentionally mechanistic repetitiveness and implacability of its pulsating chords give the Tango a somewhat fatalistic character. As if seeking to avoid some kind of eventual imprisonment, the melody charts its own way, as if its existence hinged on the freedom of its own style. The juxtaposition of these two contradictory elements creates a poignant feeling. The steps of the Tango force two bodies entwined and absorbed in one another to bend, bow, break, twist and flip to the sound of a single particular note, word or harmony. The result is never very far from melodrama, but it still remains dramatic.
From this formula, I have retained two elements as basic material: pathos, and a certain declamatory style. The fact that this movement is intentionally written in three-quarter time erases the dominating rhythm. However, if we were to split the measures into groups of four, we would naturally recognize the inexorable pulse of a heart beating in common time; thus this slowing-down effect creates an unreal kind of distant memory, sentimental but temporally frozen.
The Charleston, on the other hand, is a dance which is essentially dependent upon the geometry of its rhythm. Here, melodies and harmonies are made to function more as background, becoming inconsequential. The Charleston is danced individually, both participants being apart from one another. Its syncopations are characteristically mechanistic and seem to evoke, both visually and aurally, the accelerated appearance and the characteristic abruptness of silent films from the same era. There is still room for elegance, but what predominates is thirst for fun and appetite for laughter.
The Blues is above all a cry of solitude, and sometimes a confession of loneliness. A voice, a saxophone, a trumpet or a solo clarinet, attempts to express this while trying to be heard beyond an enclosed space. An aura of melancholy is created by the vague quality of the rhythmic contour, and also by underlying harmonies which, though blurred and troubled, are sophisticated by their very nature. And the melody is like the snake that follows a path as it goes to die in the desert. The Blues is danced by two people, without strict rhythmic precision, but still with a sense of continuity. The dancers glide, hesitate, teeter, falter, freeze and begin again, as if they were nearing a final separation. The mood is one of infinite melancholy, and the tonal color is that of the night.
With the Samba the tropical sun bursts forth. A mixture of paroxystic rhythms and luxurious harmonies give the music a constant light-headed sensuality. The tunes, in tandem with the harmonic climate, evoke, recount, claim or condemn the memory of a recent and distant past—a lost loved one or an exotic beach, real or imagined. This feeling has a specific name in Brazil—saudade. More physical than 'nostalgia', and more ambiguous than Sehnsucht (the search for something once seen, in German) the word has no direct English equivalent, the saudade being a tribal state of mind, whose verbal, tangible and aural concept remains enigmatic, even when expressed through ritual. Thus it retains its mysterious and attractive qualities because it can only be felt while in a hypnotic state.
Finally, having placed so much stress on the moods of intoxication, contamination, drunkenness, paroxysm, hysteria, palpitation and madness which fuel this work, I find myself in a state of urgent obligation to swear solemnly that I have written this sonata in a state of indisputable sobriety!
from notes by Marc-André Hamelin © 2008


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The Moon is the ruler of our emotions in astrology! Use the powerful Moon energy to your advantage with your day-by-day one-month Lunar Forecast. The fast-moving Moon sets the tone of our daily lives -- it controls when we are up or down, laughing or crying, naughty or nice, Discover when to speak, when to stay silent, when to act and when to pull back. Get started right now!read less
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Shop Talk
Style and sample sales, fashion and fun.
BloggersAlison Bernicker Anne Bratskeir Joseph V. Amodio Barbara Schuler Ginny Dunleavy
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Project Prom: Enter to win a prom shopping spree on Newsday
Every year, Newsday helps one lucky Long Island high school senior find the prom dress of her dreams.
Last year was Project Prom overload, as Newsday readers picked prom outfits for the five Carbone quints of Old Brookville. The sisters got to go shopping with Newsday fashion expert Anne Bratskeir and had the entire BCBGMAXAZRIA Manhattan showroom at their disposal -- gowns, shoes, jewels,...Read more »
Vintage shopping: This week's top picks
Shopping for vintage clothing and accessories is thrilling, but it can take hours to finally come across that one piece your closet has been missing. This got us thinking, how can we make scoring rare fashion gems easier for our readers? Every week, we'll search high and low to bring you the best vintage finds on the internet. From eBay to Etsy, we've got you covered! This week, we found a...Read more »
Vera Wang abolishes bridal appointment fees amid controversy
Brides all over the world are willing to do anything for a Vera Wang wedding gown . . . except pay appointment fees.
After high fees caused controversy in China, Wang has abolished them at all of her bridal boutiques worldwide, Women's Wear Daily reports.
At the Shanghai flagship store, a 3,000 yuan (about $482) fee had been implemented just for trying gowns on. It did include afternoon...Read more »
Kate Spade launches Saturday, lower-priced sister label
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Originally Posted by Deadai
If you are referring to Tayuya's genjutsu not being able to work well out doors then you are mistaken, as It worked fine on Shikamaru and there was some distance beween them OUTDOORS.
white rage, muki tensei
Kabuto may have looked impressive in the cave but alot of ninjas will be equally dangerous or more in the cave
In that location Kabuto would most likely win even though Sasuke would have a big advantage with Enton and Amateratsu. Sasuke stated that Kabuto had a advantage because of the location. If they were outside in an open area then things can easily change because a then a lot of Kabuto's abilities would be watered down.
The sound genjutsu shouldn't be too much of a problem since in that very moment they got caught in it they instantly seen through it because of the sharigan. Which was step one in breaking an genjutsu. This was why neither one of them were worried when they got caught in it. The data book pretty much states that the sharigan are able to easily break genjutsu depending on the level of the user. People need to understand that just because its sound genjutsu it doesn't change the affects it puts on the opponent. The affects are the same as if it was an visual genjutsu. The delivery is just different because its instant and its carried through sound waves, the affects are the same as visual genjutsu. Just like how Sasuke was caught in Shi's genjutsu and he instantly seen through it and broke out of it, but by the time he did the Raikage and Darui were right behind him.
Originally Posted by End of Days
white rage, muki tensei
Kabuto may have looked impressive in the cave but alot of ninjas will be equally dangerous or more in the cave
How aee white rage affected? it charges straight twords you with a blast of blinding sound and light I admit its ability's are enhanced in the cave but it would still give Kabuto more then long enough opining for an attack.
Muki Tensei may not use spiked to attack you but somthing similer could happen such as the ground attacking you from beneath/ eatting you.
Originally Posted by HiddenSound
Whatever you say, champ. There's no point "debating" with you, anyway. It's been long-since proven that Kabuto wins more times than not. See the post where we declare our victory. So I'll leave the thread with this last post. But I'll come back if something interesting happens. Probably not, though.
That's nice
you forgot sasuke to add to your title as example..
anyways...nice story..
It took almost everything from Edo Itachi to stop Kabuto. He even sacrified his eye i.e. he also lost his Susanoo.
Also in that fight their were instances when the Uchihas tag-teamed on him. Kabuto caould've solod them if it weren't for Izanami [PNJ] or even if he were to face one at a time
Originally Posted by minator93
It took almost everything from Edo Itachi to stop Kabuto. He even sacrified his eye i.e. he also lost his Susanoo.
Also in that fight their were instances when the Uchihas tag-teamed on him. Kabuto caould've solod them if it weren't for Izanami [PNJ] or even if he were to face one at a time
? "almost everything" is what exactly? Kabuto told him that he heals instantly, blocked his vision and he can liquify his body. From the moment they started fighting he was preparing Izanagi for the simple fact that was an 100% way to stop Kabuto's movements(Itachi states that Izanagi was the easiest way to stop Kabuto so that he could use Tsukuyomi on him) AND Itachi was already dead anyway so him losing his eye was meaningless to him.
Originally Posted by Uchiha Mike
If it was in an open area the sound waves would not bounce off the cave walls therefore emitting less power and backbone behind the jutsu..
Excellent point my friend
Originally Posted by Deadai
*cracks knuckles*
The debate of weather Sasuke can defeat Kabuto or not ends here
first off lets look at taijutsu shall we? whalst Kabuto is in DSM he has enhanced strength and sensory not to mention his surgical precision with chakra scalpel. Which even Tsunade noted as being highly impressive in her battle with Kabuto, then there is the fact that Kabuto has the healing capability's of Both Karin and Orochimaru leaving all physical attacks useless.
Then there is genjutsu because of Kabuto being able to fight blinded all genjutsu is rendered useless.
I am also seeing allot of of arguments weather Amaterasu could hit Kabuto or not I say it is possible but unlikely seeing as how easily Kabuto was able to avoid Sasuke's Susanoo arrow arguably his quickest attack.
Sasuke's fire based jutsu can be counter'd with Kabuto's water based jutsu, here you could count that as a draw. allthough Sasuke does have lightning based jutsu which can counter Kabuto's earth release which is a point to Sasuke.
as for the Susanoo there are 3 jutsu we know of in Kabuto's arsenal that could take care of it 1,white rage 2,organic manipulation(spikes could attack from underneath Susanoo to pearce Sasuke) and 3, Tayuya's genjutsu. All of these attacks leaving Sasuke wide open for a finishing blow.
I could add more to how/why Kabuto would defeat Sasuke without much difficulty but this should be more then enough proof.
, Amaterasu is quicker than Susanoo Arrow. Do you not realize that with Amaterasu you only focus on the target and the attack is instant? Susanoo Arrow might be his strongest attack, but not the fastest by any means. Kabuto's taijutsu and sensory abilities are quite good, but does it matter? Taijutsu is not a factor given the facts that Sasuke fought the fastest ninjas, except Minato in battle. He already has experience. Sensing your attack is something valuable which can turn the tables in the fight, but Kabuto can't dodge forever. He was stuck when Sasuke used a Susanoo Arrow on him and he was using Sasuke's sword to free himself... Why didn't he shed his skin? He could of left the dead carcass hanging in the ceiling, but noooooooooooo he had to get the sword to liberate himself. The battle of course would be more complicated for Sasuke because of Kabuto's ability to regenerate himself with his healing abilities. Sasuke is no fool and he knows Kabuto's abilities quite well, so he wouldn't expect any less from Kabuto and he would know that the battle would lose quite some time. I never expected Kabuto to use Suiton, but yes it's true that normal fire attacks are rendered useless, but Sasuke has Raiton and Amaterasu. Raiton immobilizes water just the same Suigetsu was affected against Bee and the Summit.
Genjutsu is rendered useless and i won't argue there. Now for Kabuto to stop Sasuke's Susanoo that's easier said than done. He doesn't have any attacks that can shatter the Susanoo. He can make Sasuke withdraw through his senses and inability of using his eyes, but that's about it. White Rage takes prep and you know that very well. Sasuke's attack are 1 KO's literally, so he had to be careful when facing Kabuto. Now if Sasuke went relentless. I bet you that he could of prevented the attack from even activating. The dragon needs to coil itself in the orb and it's not an instant attacks that can immobilize you. I don't see how that attack will work on your favor. Muki Tensei has a better chance seeing as how the surroundings change, but Kabuto wouldn't know how to use Muki below the Susanoo to reach Sasuke. Only Gaara was the one who came up with that technique. Kabuto used different methods stopping Susanoo, which was sound and light to bypass the Susanoo's defenses to reach Sasuke. I give props to Kabuto for coming with strategic plans to stop Susanoo it was clever. He also was able to dodge powerful attacks from both Uchiha brothers. Now the thing here is that Kabuto's liquefaction abilities would be rendered useless by Sasuke's Chidori. Kabuto would end up paralyze enough for Sasuke to give him an onslaught of attacks. Kabuto needs to make handseals in order to activate his medical ninjutsu which Sasuke can read handseals just through his own Sharingan. So he will know when will heal and at that moment he will prevent unless Kabuto makes Sasuke go through an obstacle. By the way Tayuya's genjutsu only worked because Itachi and Sasuke weren't looking forward and Kabuto took the chance to hit them while they weren't looking. So her genjutsu is useless.
none of dem stands a chance agaisnt nagato if he could walk. none :/
Originally Posted by TheCloudsBlackLightning
You didnt end anything.
You forgot to put edo in front of kabuto
kabuto can kick the shit out of pple in hawk, Akatsuki, and kages...Due to edo tensei
if itachi or sasuke would face kabuto by themselves they would get pwned by that genjutsu that kabuto used.they only survived it because they used counter genjutsus on each other.they would get defeated on their own
Originally Posted by SuperFlyzzED
Well if Kabuto keeps shedding Sasuke will spam his Amaterasu until Kabuto runs out of chakra. Sasuke was the first one to invent the dodging technique of Amaterasu against Itachi. Sasuke is well aware that Kabuto would do the same thing. Sasuke will find out a way to disable Kabuto. You think that he won't find a weakness in that little trick that he succeeded against Itachi in the Hideout? Shedding his skin won't do him good forever, because his chakra supply will suffer.
Invent the technique of dodging Amaterasu? Are you serious? All he did was run.
Originally Posted by SasoriOfTheRedSaand
Itachi's victory is instantaneous via Izanami but I think Kabuto would beat Sasuke.
I can't believe that over half of NB doesn't know how Izanami works...
Kabuto sux. He had everything on his side to win n still lost so i agree with this thread.
What do u mean "...MIGHT win inside a cave"?... Kabuto already beat Sasuke, like 2ice over, now, had it not been for Izanami....
Btw, Sasuke never used tha oral thing.. That was a substitution tech, back at tha hideout
Originally Posted by SuperFlyzzED
Well if Kabuto keeps shedding Sasuke will spam his Amaterasu until Kabuto runs out of chakra. Sasuke was the first one to invent the dodging technique of Amaterasu against Itachi. Sasuke is well aware that Kabuto would do the same thing. Sasuke will find out a way to disable Kabuto. You think that he won't find a weakness in that little trick that he succeeded against Itachi in the Hideout? Shedding his skin won't do him good forever, because his chakra supply will suffer.
Originally Posted by TheBrightSide
Invent the technique of dodging Amaterasu? Are you serious? All he did was run.
Lmao woah, that was funny...
Yup, superflyzzed's post ryt here just about sums up all tha credibility, I need to know about, for this thread
lol Kabuto has Reanimation. Sasuke isn't winning any day soon.
NB must be filled with a lot of young minded people. I must be getting too old for this kind of stuff(well I know there are people out there worth debating with). Even though I have been following Naruto since the early 2000's. Its like with all the information given about abilities you would think people would just simply read and understand the logic that goes with them. People don't even understand that sound genjutsu is only special because its delivered by "sound" and it still has the same affects as a visual genjutsu. Nor do they realize Kabuto/Sasuke practically states that Kabuto had the field advantage hence the blinding/sound ability being majorly affective.
Kabuto still has the sound genjutsu.
Sasuke is unable to counter Kabuto's techs,
while Kabuto's techs are almost specifically made
to counter the Uchiha bro's.
Susanoo for defence = White rage or flute counter
Susanoo arrow = Dodge
Amaterasu = Dodge or oral rebirth
Enton = Dodge or oral rebirth
Genjutsu = Fight with eyes closed.
Physical attacks = Liquefy
White Rage = No counter
Demon flute = No counter
Inorganic transmutation = No counter/dodge if lucky?
Kabuto's water style > Sasuke's fire style.
You sound unrealistic saying white rage would have a no effect outside. It's
still going to have an effect nonetheless, which would give Kabuto an opening.
You must be having a laugh if you seriously believe that Sasuke, or even Itachi, stands a chance against Kabuto. With or without Edo Tensei Sasuke's attacks are rendered useless. Also it doesn't matter where the location is cause Kabuto is basically custom built to be a perfect match up against Uchihas.
Originally Posted by 3MESSIAH
if itachi or sasuke would face kabuto by themselves they would get pwned by that genjutsu that kabuto used.they only survived it because they used counter genjutsus on each other.they would get defeated on their own
Wow do you even understand genjutsu at all? The difference is that Kabuto used sound genjutsu to paralyze them enough for a frontal attack. Did it work at the end? Nooo! The reason Sasuke and Itachi got caught by the sound genjutsu was because they were hiding behind their backs, instead of looking at Kabuto. So he took the chance and trapped both Sasuke and Itachi. Now, if Sasuke fought Kabuto and he was trapped the same way. I will then say that Kabuto officially won the match.
Originally Posted by GiantShuriken
Sasuke wins via Amaterasu arrow to the face.
Except for the fact that kabuto already displayed the ability to dodge them up close so i don't why you even bothered saying this
Originally Posted by III HOKAGE III
Kabuto sux. He had everything on his side to win n still lost so i agree with this thread.
this thread did not explain anything then won because itachi used izanagi that proves itachi could beat kabuto that does not mean sasuke can beat him one on one and i am not saying kabuto would win against sasuke indefinitely but you cannot also say sasuke will win indefinitely because the match up did not happen both parties were not aiming to kill.
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