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Your English was great, but I am always really hesitant to theorycraft an expansion 2 months away from launching. A lot is subject to change in that time. A whole lot.
tankscataV1.3english.xls.zip updated october 6th 2010
Here's a little spreadsheet I've done trying to modelize the main theorycrafting aspects of a fictionnal Cataclysm tank warrior (but with some changes, you can adapt it to another class).
The main reflexion is about how the new block (=mastery), the new parry (Edit : no more, back to classic), and the disparition of a lot of miss related to defense would affect the main theorycrafting standards like EHP, total mitigation, Tankpoints, time to live, and so on.
This is a personnal and prototypical research, and I perfectly know there is far better theorycrafters than me on this forum, like Sattori, Satrina, Aggathon and others. This is precisely why I post here. I hope it may interest you, and I hope you could offer corrections and share your opinion.
The main thing lacking in my spreadsheet is Blood craze (http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=16492). I'll add it in a future version. Avoidance should have bad effects on this talent. (Edit : added)
Besides, my feeling is that Mastery cannot easily compete with dodge and parry, unless very high DR.
ps : excuse my english, i'm not native.
Last edited by Aradril; 10-05-2010 at 06:06 PM.
Your English was great, but I am always really hesitant to theorycraft an expansion 2 months away from launching. A lot is subject to change in that time. A whole lot.
I'm also confused as there appears to be 2 places where EHP is caluclated, but they are vastly different numbers (~400k vs ~730k). Same thing with number of hits to kill a tank (one says 4, the other says 7). I see they are called "Tankpoints" or something similar in the notes, but at first glance it does look confusing as they are both refered to as "Effective health" - when only one truely should be.
I'd recommend using a term other than "effective health" when referring to total tank effectiveness such as Whitetooth's Tankpoints, et al.
Small things:
The swing speed (with debuff) doesn't automatically change when you change the boss' base swing speed, but it wasn't had to manually do.
The default vaules aren't likely to be what tanks will have when they first hit 85. Examples: 50k armor (nearly at the cap, even for level 88 mobs), 40% block, avoidance is proably high too, but that's just opinion honestly.
Edit - I figured out why the armor reduction was looking odd to me. In Cataclysm, they've changed the armor DR again:
Code:Cell B20: =(B10/(B10+2167.5*B1-158167.5))*100
Last edited by Andenthal; 09-27-2010 at 03:22 PM.
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.
Thanks for your comments,
I didn't know about the change reverse for parry. I didn't see any blue post about that. But if that's true, that's a relief, because I wasn't fan of the new mecanism (and I'm not so sure about my modelization).
I admit that what i called here "average effective health" can be confusing because pure EH is designed to be guaranteed, fixed. On the other hand, Whitetooth's Tankpoints are nothing different that and averaged effective health, that's the same formula including statistical effects of avoidance and block. Maybe people oppose too much those two concepts (EH and tankpoints), although there not so different in the idea. One is about a fixed, guaranteed pool, the other about an average, statistical pool. That's not opposite, that's more complementary. EH is about a worst case burst scenario, Tankpoints is about a average case burst scenario. Although all that has been said about RNG being bad, demonstrating it by A+B, I still believe, as well as a lot of tanks, that the two concepts deserve consideration. If "average effective health" seems confusing, or heretic, just call it Tankpoints like Whitetooth, but then, you cut a semantic link between concepts that are, in a sens, nothing but twins.
Same thing for the number of hits to kill a tank, one line is about "minimum number of hits", another line about "average number of hits". That's the same problematic as EH/Tankpoints. The same with "time to kill the tank". I think the two lines atr interesting and complementary. A good tank has to live as long as possible in a worst case scenario, but also in an average - and more likely to happen - scenario.
Besides, you're right about the other little things, I'll fix that. Maybe 45k armor would be more reaslitic ? I don't know. Cata items have loads of armor. Moreover, I wasn't refering to a tank just reaching lvl 85, but more to a tank with a T11 gear. Anyway, that's just default and arbitrary values. xD
I'll present a rectified spreadsheet soon.
Last edited by Aradril; 09-27-2010 at 09:04 PM.
With the new armor DR calcs in there, 50k armor isn't looking that bad - like 60% reduction. It was just that 50k armor was showing like 68% armor reduction on a level 88 mob with the old formula, and that didn't sound right for first tier raiding.
Regarding the terminology behind "average effective health". It would be like if someone came out with something to try to compare block to pure avoidance (Miss/Dodge/Parry). They would show some very detailed math about how X% of block is basically the same damage reduction or TTL increase as having X% of Avoidance, and called it "average avoidance".
While their math isn't techncially inaccurate, the terminology is - as we currently understand that avoidance = taking zero damage. Even if you can prove hands down that XX% block is the exact same as X% avoidance - you can't call it avoidance (average or otherwise) , because it is not.
That's how I look at Whitetooth's Tank Point numbers. I actually have his addon installed in game (was great for gearing for heroic Anub) as it kinda boils everything down to a common number. It's quicker to see if 25 Defense is more or less than 20 Dodge. The part that's misleading though, is if I have 280k EHP, I can take 280,000 points of raw damage before I die. This is something I can calculate and verify. It's undeniable.
Having 511k "average EHP" doesn't necessarily mean I can take 511,000 points of raw damage before I die. It's calculating avoidance in there (in which I take zero damage) and mitigation (where a portion of the damage is absorbed). The "average" part is due to avoidance - where sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't. That's why the "average EHP" number is nearly twice as large as the true EHP number. This is contradictory to the theory of EH - where you'll always be able to take (or not take) the same amount of damage.
(both 280k EHP and 511k "average EHP" were taken directly from the sheet, one is 182.5% larger than the other)
Really what you have is "number of hits to kill a tank in worst case" (which is a function of what we currently call "effective health") and "number of swings to kill a tank in best case". The bolded, underlined part is because it includes avoidance, which isn't technically a "hit", and absorbs, which are not worst case.
I thought of another way to look at it. If you break the terms down you can see where the disparity is (at least IMO).
Effective Health - the amount of raw damage you can take - assuming all other factors fail (worst case), before dieing.
Average Effective Health would then mean:
The average amount of raw damage you can take in a worst case scenario, before dieing.
What's the average worst case?
Last edited by Andenthal; 09-28-2010 at 04:30 PM. Reason: further explanation
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with the software.
This seems totally redundant. The average amount would be effected by time (or boss swings), as your EH would not change. This would otherwise be known as.... EH.Average Effective Health would then mean:
The average amount of raw damage you can take in a worst case scenario, before dieing.
If you are talking about damage, talk about damage.
If you are talking about EH, talk about EH.
Do not confuse the two, or people reading become confused. Separate out the ideas, and you have a clear picture.
RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
Many super intelligent people who dwarf my ability to compute mathematics have tried to come up with a single super variable that takes into account incoming damage, EH, spell damage, avoidance, etc aka the "quotient value". It simply is too hard to come up with, if not impossible.
READ THIS: Posting & Chat Rules
The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
Thanks for your comments,
tankscataV1.3english.xls.zip updated october 6th 2010
Here's a corrected version of my spreadsheet including :
- some terminology correction
- parry correction (back to classic parry = avoidance)
- new armor DR (thanks Anden for the Whitetooth link)
- lesser default values (still it's just a customizable example)
- a try to ~ modelize Blood Craze effect (with Field Dressing)
- little improvements
Don't worry about the "average EH" thing anymore. There was never a disagreement about what you and I call EH, in the most classic way. The debate was just a question of pure terminology. What I called "average EH" wasn't at all EH in the common sense, it was nothing but Whitetooth's Tankpoints, as you noted. I doesn't reflects an "average worst case scenario", what is absurd, but simply an "average case scenario". The reason was linked to the formula striking parallelism,
- worst case scenario metavalue : EH = HP / ( 1 - guaranteed mitigation)
- average case scenario metavalue : Tankpoints = HP / ( 1 - statistical mitigation)
But I give up with that, I swear xD
@ Kaze & Satorri : I would say that metavalues doesn't delete basic values, it's merely an additive information. The main interest is comparison and optimizing with different perspectives. EH is a metavalue just like Tankpoints, just like Total mitigation (or statistical), or average required HPS. It's worth to calculate those different metavalues. Each is about survivability, but each has a different goal, a different meaning. EH is not the only one that matters in all cases. That's why I tried to gather all this.
Concerning specifically Whitetooth's Tankpoints, I won't say it's like THE super magic variable that explain everything. No. It's not a metametametavalue ^^. It's just a metavalue of the same degree as EH and very parallel to it in the formula. But it reflects a rational point of balance between EH and total or statistical mitigation, so it's still good to keep in mind. I regret it recently went away from Rawr ProtWar, cause it's great to have a cursor to weight EH against mitigation, but it was greater to have a metavalue that can assist in that weighting, wich is otherwise purely arbitrary. Information is always welcome. I think that Whitetooth's Tankpoints could be more usefull in Cata that they we're in WotlK.
ps : I did not change all the criticized terminology, but I may change more later
Last edited by Aradril; 10-05-2010 at 06:03 PM.


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A second meeting seems needed and appropriate as we have several things to discuss:
1) We now have Update #1 of the Upland Prairie Restoration Plan. It should be on our home page by October 19th. I will also try to get a hard copy sent to all of you by next week. Please let me know if you are able to access the report on our page and do not need us to send you a copy. It is 24 pages including cover, table of contents, etc.
2) Our Landscape Architect, Ed Hilliard will be visiting the site with what topo maps we have, and is interested in sharing his and our ideas.
3) I am interested in the concept of establishing permanent transect lines perpendicular to each other and marking the extreme ends of these lines with trees and other monuments as appropriate. Please think about the benefit of such "established transects" and what criteria we should use in establishing them.
4) We now have aerial photos that go back to 1936 for the property, and we plan to have those at the meeting for your viewing.
5) Right now I would like to hold off on the field preparation until after we have a chance to inventory the existing seed bank next Spring (optimal time?). I am interested in your thoughts on this as well as the overall time line for the prairie restoration.
6) I am interested in your thoughts about entering into some sort of formal agreements with the various participants (Chemeketa, Willamette, Native Plant Society, etc) to provide some assurance to participants regarding the long term relationship and park use.
7)I would like to starting putting on our home page inventories of flora and fauna. If you have notes, please considering bringing copies of them to the meeting.
If you visit the site in the meantime, you will notice the new, enlarge parking lot. To keep the park from being over run before it is prepared for the public, we are placing some "NO HUNTING" signs and some light construction barricades at the driveways. The are movable so feel free to drive around them ( move and replace them if necessary). In addition, it is my intent to prohibit pets (dogs, cats, etc) from the park to enhance the habitat for wild animals.
I have yet to contact Susan Kephart about using the same room again at the cafeteria, so the place is not firm yet. Please let me know if the date and time work for you and I will get back to you all with the place. Hopefully it will be the Willamette cafeteria someplace.

subset: commoncrawl


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It's been less than a week since Julia Restoin Roitfeld launched her maternity-themed website, Romy and the Bunnies, and already we're obsessed. Okay, so we may not have tots of our own or be anywhere close to getting pregnant and yet we can't get enough of the site's tips - yes, we do want to smell like a baby - interviews with famous mummies like Helena Christensen and, of course, the gorgeous illustrations.
Julia wisely enlisted the help of Lula of Herself magazine - the incredible illustrator behind the blogger drawings for House of Grazia - to draw Romy in her cutest outfits once a week. The images give the site a wonderfully personal and uniquely stylish feel. So with our obsession growing, who better to discuss it with than the lady herself? Read on for our exclusive chat with JRR...
Grazia Daily: Why did you decide to set up the site?
Julia Restoin Roitfeld: After having my baby, I wanted to find a way to merge my existing occupation of creative director, with my new obsession, babies and pregnancy, all with an eye for beauty and fashion.
Grazia Daily: How have you juggled launching the project and being a new mum?
Julia Restoin Roitfeld: It took me quite a while to get it all done, I have to admit. I started thinking about it and brainstorming back in September! I always wanted to be a hands on mum, and have been working on it between [Romy's] naps and late at night when she sleeps. Those last two weeks though were a bit more intense, but made sure to always be back for her dinner, bath and bed time routine. That's my rule!
Grazia Daily: Lula's illustrations are gorgeous – how did you come across her work?
Julia Restoin Roitfeld: I wanted to feature some my favourite outfits of my daughter, without actually featuring her! I have been a fan of Lula since she started and asked her if she would be interested in creating a little Romy character - and luckily she said yes.
Grazia Daily: Speaking of which, we love your instagram snaps of Romy [see gallery below]. Will we get to see her face soon?
Julia Restoin Roitfeld: [laughs] I am very divided about it! It's an endless inner debate. I want to show my biggest love to the world and at the same time, I don't want to expose her too young.
Grazia Daily: She's already looking very chic! What do you like dressing her in?
Julia Restoin Roitfeld: Comfy pajamas. At home, it's mostly onesies, body suits and little leggings and when out, it will be cashmere leggings or stockings - I love the ones by Makie. I also love Tan organic cotton and alpaca whool.
Grazia Daily: Have you saved any of your fashion items to pass on?
Julia Restoin Roitfeld: All of my baby clothes that were already vintages back then as well as lots of Victorian lace dresses and blouses.
Grazia Daily: Is there one of your outfits that you can't wait to dress Romy in?
Julia Restoin Roitfeld: My mini mouse dress [above left]. In a couple of years, it should fit her.
Retro Roitfeld: Julia as a child with her brother, Vladimir
Grazia Daily: Where are your favourite places to shop for baby clothes?
Julia Restoin Roitfeld: Makie, Tane Organic, Baby Gap Organic collection, Caramel, Oeuf and Bonpoint, of course. H&M baby also has a lot of great stuff.
Grazia Daily: And how is Carine enjoying being a grandmother? Is she babysitting for you?
Julia Restoin Roitfeld: Of course, she is a proud grandmother, but no one in my family has baby sat yet!
Grazia Daily: As for your style, how has it changed now that you're a mum?
Julia Restoin Roitfeld: Not so much, but I try to wear the nicest thing when off-mommy-duty - babies are messy! It's hard to be spotless with a baby around.
Grazia Daily: Finally, what maternity tip would you give Kate Middleton?
Julia Restoin Roitfeld: To embrace her pregnancy and to spend as much time with her baby once born. They grow up so quickly!
We'll be sure to pass it on. Thanks Julia! See little Romy's adorable wardrobe in the gallery below and stay tuned to romyandthebunnies.com for more...


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Today marked the opening of yet another all-vegan food cart in Portland! I am forever lost in the numbers of vegan-friendly dining options here since Tim and I rarely go out to eat. But, we were lured by the opening of this new cart, Kitchen Dances, because the owner used to be a partner at Proper Eats, one of our most favorite places to dine in Portland. We impulsively decided to take a quick bike ride over to the new cart for lunch:
The cart is located in the Good Food Here cart pod on SE Belmont and 42nd Avenue (surprisingly, Tim and I had no idea this cart pod even existed! See? We don't eat out much!). It's tucked away in the back, but you can't miss the bright red exterior or lovely aromas wafting from the inside. For their first day of business, Kitchen Dances had a non-stop flow of customers, which makes me insanely happy because I want this cart to stay firmly planted right where it is! The menu boasts super-fresh cooked and raw items:
After a few moments of pondering the menu, the woman working there offered us a free sample of their homemade basil-hazelnut pesto spread on some awesome chewy bread:
I was seconds away from darting off with the entire plate of samples because (1) I love bread; (2) I love pesto; and (3) I love free samples. While we were waiting in line to order, the gentleman behind us asked if we had ordered yet. I told him that we had not and when it was our turn to order, he cut in front of us and placed his order first! What? If ever there were a time for me to exercise my desire to punch someone in the face, this would have come close. Don't fret, I'm not violent and I pretended not to notice.
I ordered the Raw Hummus Wrap for $5.00 and Tim ordered the Roasted Eggplant Sandwich for $7.50. The prices are fair considering the amount of food you get and the quality of ingredients. The food is so clean and so good for you – there's no guilt! Kitchen Dances also offers desserts, primarily from Black Sheep Bakery. We didn't get any desserts because I overdosed on chocolate yesterday… Maybe next time though!
Our food:
Tim's Roasted Eggplant Sandwich consisted of: roasted eggplant, caramelized onion, and tomato with a garlic-herb aioli and a side salad. He said it was really good. I was proud of Tim because when we go to Proper Eats, he ALWAYS gets the Tempeh Reuben (which is on the menu at Kitchen Dances too) and he tried something new today!
My Raw Hummus Wrap: this was a chard leaf filled with raw hummus, carrots, beets, tomatoes, cucumbers, and quinoa tabouli. I was a bit disappointed because there were no carrots or beets (two of my favorite veggies) and the tabouli was loaded with lots of onions (which I'm not a fan of, sadly). The hummus was delicious and so was the chard leaf, but I couldn't finish my wrap due to all the onions. Tim devoured it though, even after cleaning his own plate.
I will definitely be riding my bike back to Kitchen Dances because there were other items on the menu that looked incredibly yummy. I should have known better about the onions, but I was too excited and didn't think before I ordered.
Yay for even more vegan food options in Portland!!!
And hey, if you haven't entered my giveaway yet, you should! I keep adding more fun items to the prize!! I hope everybody's week is off to a good start.


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Walking around in a blur? Afraid to talk about Jesus? Not sure how Christians fit with other religions? One or Two will help you see a world of difference—between the only two worldviews: the worship of the creation (what this … Learn MorePaperback - out of stock $15.00 $12.00 Backorder
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In this classic story Dr. R.C. Sproul continues his project of illustrating theological concepts for children. The Priest with Dirty Clothes teaches the concept of imputation, which lies at the heart of the important biblical doctrine of justification. Using the … Learn MoreHardcover $18.00 $14.40 Add to Cart
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Jan Mulder's Favourite Hymns
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This beautiful instrumental CD, arranged and performed by Dutch pianist Jan Mulder and his orchestra, is a collection of some of his favorite hymns. Tracks include: 1. Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty! (Tune: J.B. Dykes/arr. Jan Mulder) 2. All … Learn MoreCD $20.00 $14.99 Add to Cart
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In this book, Dr. John Jefferson Davis examines some of the most pressing ethical issues of our time including abortion, homosexuality, contraception, euthanasia, capital punishment, and war. Dr. Davis examines the evidence from history and general revelation that influences our … Learn MorePaperback $18.00 $14.40 Add to Cart
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In this book, Dr. R.C. Sproul employs his unique perspective as a highly experienced pastor-theologian and a trained philosopher to provide well-considered and compassionate answers to the difficult questions that attend termination of pregnancy. Dr. Sproul strives for a factual, … Learn MoreHardcover $15.00 $12.00 Add to Cart
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NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah believes Alabama senior LB C.J. Mosley is the complete package.
Michigan State redshirt senior WR Tony Lippett will start at cornerback Saturday against Penn State.
The Big Ten declared Ohio State junior DE Noah Spence permanently ineligible.
Baylor coach Art Briles said Baylor redshirt senior QB Bryce Petty is this year's Blake Bortles and the best QB in the 2015 draft.
Minnesota coach Jerry Kill said senior RB David Cobb is "very questionable" for Saturday's game at Wisconsin.
Stanford senior WR Ty Montgomery has been ruled out for the upcoming game against UCLA with a shoulder injury.
Florida sophomore CB Vernon Hargreaves III will not shadow FSU senior WR Rashad Greene.
Notre Dame redshirt sophomore DL Jarron Jones will miss the remainder of the season with a Lisfranc injury.
ESPN's Mel Kiper ranks Southeastern Louisiana senior Bryan Bennett as the No. 6 QB in the 2015 class.
LSU LT La'El Collins has been invited to the Senior Bowl.
UCLA redshirt junior QB Brett Hundley told Jim Rome "there is a really good chance" last weekend's win was his last versus USC.
NFL Media's Daniel Jeremiah spoke with two NFL executives who believe Alabama junior WR Amari Cooper would have ranked as the fourth best prospect at the position in last year's class.


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Eating your fruits and veggies has never been easier or more fun! Not only does our Dip N' Dunk™ snack container hold a cup of fruit or vegetables, but the easy-open lid features a built-in cup designed to hold your favorite dip or dressing. A removable, reusable, nontoxic ice pack snaps into the lid to keep everything perfectly chilled. Our Dip N' Dunk™ is available in assorted colors - please let us choose for you. What is an assorted item? See more product details below.
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Don't throw your odd socks away. Instead, transform them into monsters! Simply stuff the socks and sew funny features onto them to make a whole array of crazy creatures. This is a great project for young children, as the sewing is very simple, and little hands will have lots of fun stuffing their socks!
Project excerpted from Sewing for Children by Emma Hardy.
Variations: Instead of sewing up the heel to make a funny mouth, you can use thread to sew on a felt mouth in running stitch, starting and finishing with a few stitches to hold the thread in place. If you wish, you can cut out felt circles for the eyes to stitch onto your monster before you sew on the buttons. Sew them on your monster in the same way as for the felt mouth.
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text: GALLERIES Olivia Palermo Getty Images" data-filename="galleries/olivia-palermo/picture-59.html" > Getty Images" data-filename="galleries/olivia-palermo/picture-60.html" > Getty Images" data-filename="galleries/olivia-palermo/picture-61.html" > Getty Images" data-filename="galleries/olivia-palermo/picture-62.html" > Danny Huston Danny Huston Dawn Ostroff Dawn Ostroff Sebastian Bach Sebastian Bach Martha Nelson Martha Nelson Coming Next OR 0 62 Back to Top ▲ Olivia Palermo Olivia Palermo Olivia Palermo picture 2 AskMen Editors Share on Facebook Share on Twitter 0 Shares A well-known if controversial socialite coming from Manhattan's ritzy Upper East Side, the stunning Olivia Palermo is costarring with The Hills' Whitney Port on MTV's latest reality-based show The City. The two work alongside one another for fashion legend Diane von Furstenberg. Called "the real Blair Waldorf" on the show, Olivia Palermo is clearly designed to be the bitchy girl you love to… Continue reading Olivia Palermo's profile. Next Page gallery Comments Load Comments More Like This Promoted Best of the Web Special Features


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St. Olaf recognizes its donors in various ways through gift programs, personal visits, individual invitations to campus, special events both on- and off-campus, St. Olaf alumni magazine, web site, etc. We want our donors to know that they are appreciated!
Many donors have established endowed funds such as scholarships, professorships, internships, fellowships, and faculty development funds. Reporting on the financial status and performance of many of these funds assures each donor that his or her gift has been invested wisely and its full value is being distributed appropriately.
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You Don't Know Chuck
Who said it: Sen. Hagel or the Shin Bet?
As he's been considered for secretary of defense, one of the most persistent criticisms leveled at Chuck Hagel has been that he has been too critical of Israel. His critiques of Israel pale in comparison to those made by Avraham Shalom, Yaakov Peri, Carmi Gillon, and Avi Dichter, former heads of the Israeli intelligence service Shin Bet, interviewed in the new documentary The Gatekeepers. Both Hagel and the former directors of the Shin Bet have voiced some tough love on the subject of Israel's relationship with the Palestinians and broader Arab world. We've picked some quotes from each. Can you guess who said it, Chuck Hagel or a former head of the Shin Bet?
1. "I know about plenty of junctures since 1967 when in my view...we should have reached an agreement and ran away from [Palestine]."
Answer 1: Yaakov Peri, Shin Bet director, 1988-1994
2. "Each side [the Israelis and the Palestinians] has a legitimate point here."
Answer 2: Chuck Hagel
3. "You can't make peace using military means."
Answer 3: Avi Dichter, Shin Bet director, 2000-2005
4. "What we need isn't a cease-fire, leading to a sequential peace process, leading to negotiations on a Palestinian state, leading to negotiations on refugees, Jerusalem, etc. That time has passed. An end game must be brought to the front, now."
Answer 4: Chuck Hagel
5. "Desperate men do desperate things when you take hope away. And that's where the Palestinians are today."
Answer 5: Chuck Hagel
6. "When you retire, you become a bit of a leftist."
Answer 6: Yaakov Peri, Shin Bet director, 1988-1995
7. The IDF is a "brutal occupation force, similar to the Germans in World War II."
Answer 7: Avraham Shalom, Shin Bet director, 1980-1986
8. "To arbitrarily make decisions as the Netanyahu government has done is not helpful."
Answer 8: Chuck Hagel
9. "The message is that occupation is bad for the future of Israeli society from all aspects -- humanistic, economic, moral, etc."
Answer 9: Carmi Gillon, Shin Bet director, 1994-1996
10. "I think you have to make peace with whoever you have to make peace with....Peace is always better than war."
Answer 10: Chuck Hagel
11. "Peace comes through dealing with people. Peace doesn't come at the end of a bayonet or the end of a gun."
Answer 11: Chuck Hagel
12. "As soon as [Israel] stopped dealing with the Palestinian state and started dealing with terrorism, terror became more sophisticated....so we forgot about the Palestinian issue."
Answer 12: Avraham Shalom, Shin Bet director, 1980-1986
How'd you do?
Alex Wong/Getty Images


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They take Data mining very seriously, so having glanced at it they may have removed the post to further investigate. Looks like a nifty trinket.
Posted about this trinket earlier today but the post was deleted by a moderator? No clue why since it's actually dropping on the PTR currently and isn't data mined.
Figured I hadn't noticed it yet and wanted to point it out to others as something to look forward to in 10 man ICC.
Unidentifiable Organ
Binds when picked up
2128 Armor
Requires Level 80
Item Level 264
Equip: Each time you are struck by a melee attack, you have a 60% chance to gain 27 stamina for the next 10 sec, stacking up to 10 times.
Sell Price: 11 39 40
They take Data mining very seriously, so having glanced at it they may have removed the post to further investigate. Looks like a nifty trinket.
RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
60% chance on being hit makes it kinda wonky...even w/20% less dodge it'll still be fairly easy to get bad luck and have the stacks drop off.
Will work well with trash packs though.
Apologies, last I read it was datamined so was playing it safe. If it was indeed dropping off the PTR then I'll leave it up.
2 attacks per 10 seconds gives about 84% uptime, 3 attacks per 10 seconds about 93% uptime.
Unless bosses have a higher attack speed in ICC, it's unreliable.
I'll pick it up for the armor, though.
Originally Posted by Kahmal
bosses swing approximately every 2 seconds right? so in 10 seconds that's 5 swings, 5 swings with 40% avoidance is 60% landed hits, so 5*.6 = 3 attacks per 10 seconds, about 93% uptime.
so with a 93 % up time this tinket could be worth saying it a 270 stam trinket as well?
Adding the fairly high uptime stamina with the armor means it's a fantastic trinket. As I remarked in one of the deleted threads, it's nice to see tanks finally getting a trinket that stacks a stat. Healers and DPSers have had (a few of) those for a while now.
Of course, their versions don't have the aspect of this trinket, with the stacks dropping once in a while, but if that liability lets Blizzard stack more stats on our version then I can live with it.
If I ever get my Warrior into ToC I'll pick it up for those melee DW gimmicks. That and it beats seeing it get sharded :P
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
the name is odd,;just think if this was real. i wouldnt want to carry an unidentified organ from god knows what around.
Thanks for the clarification WarTotem, I was just going by the above posters numbers =P
Well, this is the heroic version of course - and don't forget that the stacking stamina is only half the trinket, it ALSO comes with a nice helping of armor. Yummy.
And apparently it drops in the gunship battle, so we can start looking for it right away when 3.3 hits.
Definitely worth it for fast hitting bosses and trash/lots of adds fights, for other ones people may want to change it, thought that mitigation on it still makes it look VERY nice.
Uhhhh, I'm at 60% avoidance right now so -20% will put me around 40% hence 60% chance to connect * 60% chance to actually proc. 25% avoidance? meaning you're sitting at 45% avoidance pre-chill? That's uh....hard to believe.
Ah bears, gotcha!
Well, fully buffed and considering Mongoose/Idol procs I think I'm just over 50% dodge at times. Consider the 1% or so miss from defense and 5% natural miss and even with Chill there will probably be times when us bears are more likely to not get a proc in those 10 seconds than we are to get one.
60% chance to be hit means being hit 3 times per 10 seconds. Each time has a chance to proc, and 1 proc maintains the buff. Chance of not proccing the trinket in those 3 hits is .4*.4*.4 = 6.4% chance to not proc.
For each 10 seconds, there should be a 6.4% chance to drop the buff. Otherwise, it will keep stacking. Not sure where 75-80% uptime comes from, since 1 proc per 10 seconds will keep the buff stacking.
Of course, the reality won't come out that clean, since in reality you'll get hit 5 times in 10 seconds sometimes and 1 time in 10 seconds other times, so that significantly increases the real risk of dropping the buff.
Since the entire stack falls off when it doesn't proc within those ten seconds, this aspect of the math is important.
Going with 40% avoidance...
Swing #1 has a 0.36 chance of proccing it before it drops off.
Swing #2 has a 0.64 (1-0.36) chance of being needed.
Swing #3 has a 0.230 (1-0.36*0.64) chance of being needed.
Swing #4 has a 0.083 (1-0.36*0.230) chance of being needed.
Swing #5 has a 0.030 (1-0.36*0.083) chance of being needed.
Swing #6 has a 0.011 (1-0.36*0.030) chance of being needed.
That tells me there's roughly a 1% chance for it to fall off during every 10 second window when 5<(attacks per five seconds)<6 .
1% may sound slim, but it's a large enough chance for it to happen.
I personally wouldn't count on the proc for saving my life.
What I'm wondering about is what the proc actually does. Would it give you the stamina as full or empty health? If it gives the stamina as full health, it's a nice little healing addition untill the stack reaches full, and it dropping off may actually be more beneficial then keeping it up.
Last edited by Martie; 11-21-2009 at 01:34 PM.
Originally Posted by Kahmal


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Finding USA Jobs in Challenging Times
Finding USA employments in testing times might be as hard or as simple as we make it. In the event that people are on the ball and adaptable, occupations exist. This is mostly because of the new worldwide economy and the evident actuality of the Internet.
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All things considered, the response lies in changing an attitude, as a matter of first importance. Also going to the acknowledgment that Darwin is likely right: Failure to acclimate is the thing those fates animal types. It'll be dependent upon a considerable lot of us who end up on the losing end of a pink slip to quickly adjust, and get out there and uncover those new occupations.
It's understood that numerous individuals have roots that aren't effectively pulled it. Yet if the decision is between oldness and possibly moving a little further out into the daylight - so as to allegorically guarantee photosynthesis and life-supporting vigour - then the decision is self-evident. Begin preparing for new employments in new fields and in different parts of the nation.
There are a heap of work or profession building sites out there, and people who don't or won't acknowledge the force of the Internet could come up short assuming that they don't "get it." They have to take quick measures to guarantee that doesn't happen. Their youngsters can help with the reason by supporting them in their online look. Likewise, more than enough CD-ROM based devices exist which can additionally help in the chase.
It'll be our disappointment of will that fates us in this new advanced the USA and years, provided that we neglect to adjust, extemporize, and succeed. The Dodo feathered creature once had its day, however it neglected to understand nature's turf. It is safe to say that we are Dodo fledglings? That reply, too, ought to be self-evident.