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The World's Most Complete Line of Recycling Bins, Composters & Waste Receptacles
Busch Systems manufactures the world's largest, most complete line of recycling bins, waste receptacles, and compost containers. As part of our commitment to the community and the environment, we engineer our recycling bins to use less natural resources and to ship far more effectively, thereby avoiding large volumes of carbon emissions. All of our products contain recycled content, are 100% recyclable and are proudly made in North America. Busch Systems develops more new molded recycling bins, waste collection receptacles, and composters than all other manufacturers combined. Our recycling systems are specifically manufactured to be clear and easy to use in order to prevent contamination and generate the cleanest possible stream of recyclables. We also assist and support our customers in creating recycling programs in their companies and communities.
City of Davis Uses Busch Recycling Bins
Our city is making the Waste Watcher bins the standard bins for all city facilities. Read More
MSU Promotes Recycling with Busch Systems Recycling Container
Busch Systems recycling containers help our students, staff, and faculty establish the positive habits of reducing, reusing, and recycling. Read More
Purdue University Points the Way to their Recycling Program
Thank you for all your kind help, personal attention, and great product. Read More
Busch Systems Mini Recycling Bins Help Promote Recycling Program in Idaho
Thank you Busch Systems, for providing quality, durable products that have definitely made a lasting mark in our community! Read More
Eco-Friendly Child Care Facility Uses Busch Systems Recycling Bins
The Busch Systems containers help make it easy for kids to recycle! Read More
Busch Systems Featured News
We'll be at the Canadian Waste & Recycling Expo!The Canadian Waste & Recycling Expo begins this Wednesday! Be prepared for two action packed days of networking, scouting out new products and seeing the latest developments in the Waste Management and Recycling industry Busch Systems will be one of 250 exhibitors taking over the International Centre in Mississauga, ON and we'll be bringing along some of our new lines of Recycling and Waste Bins for attendees to check out – come to booth #1645 to see the stunning Aristata ... [Read more]
Recycling Bins for LEED Points
Do recycling bins count toward LEED points? It's a great question and one we get asked all the time. The simple answer is YES. All Busch recycling containers containing a minimum of 35% recycled content will contribute to 1 LEED point available for use of Recycled Content under the Materials and Resources Project. More Information on LEED Points for Recycling Containers


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Thick fog contributed to a 14-vehicle pileup on U.S. 24 that killed a woman and caused an ethanol spill Tuesday morning in Paulding County, according to Ohio State Highway Patrol.
Ashley A. Messmann was driving a 2000 Chevy Blazer north on County Road 87, and she tried to cross U.S. 24 but did not yield to an eastbound semi, the patrol said.
The semi, driven by Dale D. Janssens, 41, of Monroe, Mich., struck the Blazer, and Messmann, 28, of Paulding, Ohio, died at the scene, the patrol said.
"We believe (the initial collision) was due to the dense fog in the area at the time, and then a pileup ensued after that," Trooper Deb Tracey said.
Visibility was less than 100 feet when the crash happened just before 8 a.m., the patrol said. The road was dry.
Vehicles in the eastbound and westbound lanes tried to avoid the first crash, and this led to seven more crashes. A total of 11 semis, two passenger vehicles and a pickup truck hauling excavating equipment were involved.
Nine motorists were taken to hospitals with injuries that were not life-threatening, the patrol said. Their names and conditions were not released.
The semi that hit the Blazer was hauling a tanker that contained liquid ethanol. The crash ruptured the tanker and about 1,500 gallons of liquid ethanol, a flammable substance, spilled into the median, the patrol said.
Lt. Leslie Brode, commander of the patrol's Van Wert post, said the spill was contained by firefighters and that it "poses no threat to the local area or to any of the people that are living close."
The crash occurred about 10 miles east of the Indiana-Ohio line. For much of Tuesday, U.S. 24 was shut down from Indiana 101 in Allen County to U.S. 127 in Paulding County, authorities said.
U.S. 24 remained closed late Tuesday while the environmental officials dealt with the spill. There was no word on when the road would open.
The crash is under investigation.

subset: commoncrawl


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You've just learned that your parent has cancer
Learning about cancer
Cancer treatment
What your parent may be feeling
Changes in your family
Taking care of yourself
Finding support
You and your friends
How you can help your parent
After treatment
The road ahead
Learning more on your own
Cancer team members
Monitoring tests
This information is for you
If your mom, dad, or an adult close to you has cancer, this information is for you. Here you can read about what has helped other teens get through this tough time. Doctors, nurses, social workers, friends, and family are working hard to help your mom or dad get better. You are a very important part of that team, too.
In the weeks and months ahead, you may feel a whole range of emotions. Some days will be good, and things might seem like they used to. Other days may be harder. This information can help prepare you for some of the things you might face. It can also help you learn to handle living with a parent or relative who has cancer.
You may want to share this information with your mom, dad, brothers, and sisters. It might help you bring up something that has been on your mind. You could ask people in your family to read a certain section and then talk about it together. We've underlined medical words that may be new to you. If you click on the word, the definition will pop up.
Order a free booklet by calling 1-800-4-CANCER (1-800-422-6237).
Or click here to get free copies sent to you.
We would like to thank the many teens, health care providers, and scientists who helped to develop and review this information.
"Wherever you go, go with all your heart."
You've just learned that your parent has cancer
You've just learned that one of the most important people in your life has cancer. Do you feel shocked, numb, angry, or afraid? Do you feel like life is unfair? One thing is certain—you don't feel good.
"I knew something was wrong the minute I walked in the kitchen. My mom was so quiet. Then Mom told me she has cancer. I felt like I was going to faint. I could barely hold the te ars back. I felt so scared. I ran to my room and just sat on the bed for the longest time . I called my best friend and kind of lost it"
- Sarah, age 16
For now, try to focus on these facts:
- Many people survive cancer. There are about 12 million cancer survivors living in the U.S. today. That's because scientists are discovering new and better ways to find and treat cancer. During this really tough time, it will help you to have hope.
- You're not alone. Right now it might seem that no one else in the world feels the way you do. In a way you're right. No one can feel exactly like you do. But it might help to know that many teens have a parent who has cancer. Talking to others may help you sort out your feelings. Remember, you are not alone.
- You're not to blame. Cancer is a disease with various causes, many of which doctors don't fully understand. None of these causes has anything to do with what you've done, thought, or said.
- Balance is important. Many teens feel like their parent's cancer is always on their mind. Others try to avoid it. Try to strike a balance. You can be concerned about your parent and still stay connected with people and activities that you care about.
- Knowledge is power. It can help to learn more about cancer and cancer treatments. Sometimes what you imagine is actually worse than the reality.
"I used to be a real easygoing, happy person. Since my dad got cancer I started blowing up over little things. My counselor at school got me in a group of kids who have a mom or dad with cancer. Meeting with kids who are going through the same thing helps a lot."
- Aaron, age 14
Your feelings
As you deal with your parent's cancer, you'll probably feel all kinds of things. Many other teens who have a parent with cancer have felt the same way you do now. Some of these emotions are listed below. Think about people you can talk with about your feelings.
"However long the night, the dawn will break."
- African Proverb
Check off the feelings you have:
What you're feeling is normal
There is no one "right" way to feel. And you're not alone—many other teens in your situation have felt the same way. Some have said that having a parent with cancer changes the way they look at things in life. Some even said that it made them stronger.
Dealing with your feelings
A lot of people are uncomfortable sharing their feelings. They ignore them and hope they'll go away. Other people choose to act cheerful when they're really not. They think that by acting upbeat they won't feel sad or angry anymore. This may help for a little while, but not over the long run. Actually, holding your feelings inside can keep you from getting the help you need.
Try these tips:
- Talk with family and friends who you feel close to.You owe it to yourself.
- Write down your thoughts in a journal.
- Join a support group to talk with other teens who are facing some of the same things you are. Or meet with a counselor. We'll learn more about these ideas in Finding support.
It is probably hard to imagine right now, but, if you let yourself, you can grow stronger as a person through this experience.
"Sometimes what helped me the most was to run or kickbox until I was exhausted."
- Jed, age 16
"I just kept telling myself that I was going to let this experience make me - not break me."
- Lydia, age 16
"After Dad got cancer, my big sister always seemed to be making excuses to get out of the house. One day, I just told her off. Instead of getting mad, she started crying. She said she couldn't stand seeing Dad hurting. I told her I felt the same way. Now we talk more and keep each other going. It's good."
- Jamie, age 13
"Experience is what you get by not having it when you need it."
- Anonymous
Learning about cancer
Learning about cancer will help you understand what your parent is going through. Knowing more about cancer and how it's treated can take some of the fear away. Some of what you have seen or heard about cancer may not apply to your parent. Most people feel better when they know what to expect.
"When Dad told me he had cancer, I got really scared. Everything I'd always heard about cancer was just terrible. Then I thought, 'Hey, what do I really know about cancer?' The answer was, 'Not much.' So I started reading books and stuff on the Internet. My dad even told me that some of what I found on the Web wasn't right for the kind of cancer he has. Cancer is still pretty scary, but I've learned that people survive it. I'm not so afraid anymore."
- Abdul, age 14
- Nothing you did, thought, or said caused your parent to get cancer.
- You can't catch cancer from another person.
- Scientists are discovering new and better ways to find and treat cancer.
- Many people survive cancer.
What is cancer?
Doctors have found more than 100 different types of cancer. Cancer is a group of many related diseases that begin in cells, the body's basic unit of life. To understand cancer, it's helpful to know what happens when normal cells become cancer cells.
Normally, cells grow and divide to make more cells only when the body needs them. This orderly process helps keep the body healthy. Sometimes, however, cells keep dividing when new cells aren't needed. These extra cells form a mass of tissue called a growth, or tumor. Tumors can be benign or malignant. Some cancers do not form a tumor. For example:
- Benign tumors aren't cancer. They can often be removed and don't spread to other parts of the body.
- Malignant tumors are cancer. Cells in these tumors are abnormal and divide and grow without control or order. They can invade and damage nearby tissues and also spread to organs in other parts of the body. The spread of cancer from one part of the body to another is called metastasis.
Most cancers are named for the organ or type of cell in which they begin. For example, cancer that begins in the lung is called lung cancer.
Why do people get cancer?
The causes of most cancers are not known. Scientists are still learning about things that may put people at a higher risk for certain types of cancer. Risk factors for cancer include age, a family history of certain cancers, use of tobacco products, being exposed to radiation or certain chemicals, infection with certain viruses or bacteria, and certain genetic changes.
Although no one can tell the future, it is good to keep in mind that most cancers are not passed down from parent to child. That is, they are not inherited. However, a family history of cancer can sometimes be a risk factor. It may help to talk with your parent or a doctor to learn more about the kind of cancer that your parent has.
Can doctors cure cancer?
Every year scientists discover better ways to treat cancer. That means many people are successfully treated for cancer. However, doctors are careful not to use the word "cure" until a patient remains free of cancer for several years. Cancer treatment may cause a remission, which means that the doctor can't find signs of cancer. But sometimes the cancer comes back. This is called a relapse or recurrence. Whether your parent can be cured of cancer depends on many things, and no booklet can tell you exactly what to expect. It is best to talk with your parent and his or her doctor or nurse.
- Web site: www.cancer.gov
- Phone: 1-800-4-CANCER (1-800-422-6237)
Monday through Friday, 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time
- Online Chat: www.cancer.gov/livehelp
Monday through Friday, 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Eastern Time
- E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.com
All of our services are free and confidential.
"Courage is the first of human qualities because it is the quality which guarantees the others."
Cancer treatment
Many teens want to know what to expect during their parent's cancer treatment. This section briefly explains different treatments, how they work, and their side effects. You will probably have more questions after reading this chapter. It may help to talk with your parents or ask if you can talk with a nurse or social worker.
"Seeing my dad in pain was the worst. One day I just told him how bad I felt for him. He said that he actually looked a lot worse than he felt. I know he's having a hard time, but knowing he doesn't hurt as much as I thought he did made me feel a lot better."
- Ashley, age 15
How does treatment work?
Cancer treatment aims to destroy cancer cells or stop them from growing. The type of treatment your parent will be given depends on:
- The type of cancer
- Whether the cancer has spread
- Your parent's age and general health
- Your parent's medical history
- Whether the cancer is newly diagnosed or is a recurrence
Remember that there are more than 100 different types of cancer. Each type is treated differently. For information about the people who will be treating your parent, see the Cancer team members section.
What are treatment side effects?
Cancer treatments destroy cancer cells, but they may also harm healthy tissues or organs in the process. This harm, or problem, is called a side effect. Some side effects, like feeling sick to the stomach, go away shortly after treatment, but others, like feeling tired, may last for a while after treatment has ended. Some people have few side effects from cancer treatment, while others have more.
Side effects vary from person to person, even among people who are receiving the same treatment. Your parent's doctor will explain what side effects your parent may have, and how to manage them.
This chart describes six types of cancer treatment, how they're done, and some side effects. Your parent may get one or more of these treatments. Depending on the exact treatment, he or she may visit the doctor during the day, or stay overnight in the hospital.
|What is it?
|How is it done?
|What may happen as a result? (side effects)
Also called an operation
|The removal of a solid tumor
|A surgeon operates to remove the tumor. Drugs are used so that the patient is asleep during surgery.
|Radiation therapy
Also called radiotherapy
|The use of high-energy rays or high-energy particles to kill cancer cells and shrink tumors
|Radiation may come from a machine outside the body or from radioactive material placed in the body near the cancer cells.
Also called chemo
|The use of medicine to destroy cancer cells
|The medicine can be given as a pill, as an injection (shot), or through an intravenous (IV) line. It is often given in cycles that alternate between treatment and rest periods.
|Stem cell transplantation
Can be a bone marrow transplantation (BMT) or a peripheral blood stem cell transplantation (PBSCT)
|The use of stem cells found in either the bone marrow or the blood. This repairs stem cells that were destroyed by high doses of chemo and/or radiation therapy.
|Stem cell transplantation uses stem cells from the patient or from donors. In many cases the donors are family members. The patient gets these stem cells through an IV line.
|The side effects can be much like those from chemo and radiation therapy. In some cases, the side effects may be more serious.
|Hormone therapy
|A treatment that adds, blocks, or removes hormones. Hormone therapy is used to slow or stop the growth of some types of cancer
|Hormone therapy can be given as a pill, as an injection, or through a patch worn on the skin. Sometimes surgery is needed to remove the glands that make specific hormones.
|Biological therapy
Also called immunotherapy
|Biological therapy uses the body's own defense system (the immune system) to fight cancer.
|Patients may be given medicine in pills, as an injection, or through an IV line.
Flu-like symptoms such as:
In addition to getting one or more cancer treatments, your parent will also get tests to find out how well the cancer is responding to treatment. A list of common tests can be found in the Monitoring Tests section.
Things to look for
Some treatments may make your parent more likely to get an infection. This happens because cancer treatment can affect the white blood cells, which are the cells that fight infection. An infection can make your mom or dad sicker. So your parent may need to stay away from crowded places or people who have an illness that he or she could catch (such as a cold, the flu, or chicken pox).
You may need to:
- Wash your hands often with soap and water, or use a hand sanitizer, to keep from spreading germs.
- Avoid bringing home friends who are sick or have a cold.
- Stay away from your parent if you are sick or have a fever.
The waiting
It's hard to wait to see whether the treatment will work. Your parent's doctor may try one treatment, then another. One day your parent may feel a lot better. The next day or week he or she may feel sick again. Treatment can go on for months or sometimes years. This emotional roller coaster is hard on everyone.
Who can answer my other questions?
Ask your parent or other trusted adults any questions that you have. Ask your dad or mom if it is okay to go with them to their appointment.
Perhaps your parent can arrange for you to talk with their doctor, nurse, or social worker to learn more. It will help to bring a list of questions with you.
When you talk with them, don't hesitate to:
- Ask what new words mean. Ask for information to be explained in another way, if what the doctor says is confusing.
- Ask to see a model or a picture of what the doctor is talking about. Ask what videos or podcasts you can watch to learn more.
- Ask about support groups for young people that meet online or in your community.
"I had questions but didn't know who to talk to. I asked my mom if I could go with her to her doctor's visit, and she said yes. The first time I just sat there. The next time the doctor asked if I had questions--so I asked a couple. It was easier than I thought it would be."
- Katie, age 14
- What kind of cancer does my parent have?
- Will my parent get better?
- Does this kind of cancer run in families?
- What kind of treatment will my parent get? Will my parent get more than one type of treatment?
- How does the treatment work?
- How do people feel when they get this treatment? Does it hurt?
- How often is this treatment given? How long will treatment take?
- Does the treatment change how people look, feel, or act?
- What if this treatment doesn't work?
- Where is the treatment given? Can I go along?
It's okay to ask these questions more than once.
Want to visit?
If your parent is in the hospital, you may be nervous about visiting. Learn ahead of time how your parent is doing and what to expect. Remember that they are still the same person, even though they are sick. Don't be afraid to ask your parent questions and share your thoughts. You can also call, write, and e-mail them.
"I really wanted to visit, but the hospital made me nervous. I wasn't crazy about the smell and didn't like seeing Dad hooked up to machines. I made excuses not to visit, but I missed him too much. Then one day a neighbor drove me over to the hospital after school. I took my homework and did some of it there. Dad looked happy just watching me--and that made me forget about how strange it was to be in this place."
- Keisha, age 13
Where to go for more information
To learn more about the type of cancer your mom or dad has, visit our site (www.cancer.gov). You can also call our Cancer Information Service at 1-800-4-cancer (1-800-422-6237) to talk with an information specialist. All calls are free and confidential.
What your parent may be feeling
Knowing what your parent may be feeling could help you figure out how to help, or at least to understand where he or she is coming from. You may be surprised to learn that they are feeling a lot of the same things you are:
- Sad or depressed. People with cancer sometimes can't do things they used to do. They may miss these activities and their friends. Feeling sad or down can range from a mild case of the blues to depression, which a doctor can treat.
- Afraid. Your parent may be afraid of how cancer will change his or her life and the lives of family members. He or she may be scared about treatment. Your parent may even be scared that he or she will die.
- Anxious. Your parent may be worried about a lot of things. Your mom or dad may feel stressed about going to work or paying the bills. Or he or she may be concerned about looking different because of treatment. And your mom or dad is probably very concerned about how you are doing. All these worries may upset your parent.
- Angry. Cancer treatment and its side effects can be difficult to go through. Anger sometimes comes from feelings that are hard to show, such as fear or frustration. Chances are your parent is angry at the disease, not at you.
- Lonely. People with cancer often feel lonely or distant from others. They may find that their friends have a hard time dealing with their cancer and may not visit. They may be too sick to take part in activities they used to enjoy. They may feel that no one understands what they're going through.
- Hopeful. There are many reasons for your parent to feel hopeful. Millions of people who have had cancer are alive today. People with cancer can lead active lives, even during treatment. Your parent's chances of surviving cancer are better today than ever before.
All these feelings are normal for people living with cancer. You might want to share this list with your mom or dad.
"My mom lost all her hair after chemo. She started wearing hats. People stared at us. I felt really bad that I was embarrassed to be with her. Then my mom just came out and asked me what I was thinking. When I told her, she said she wasn't crazy about the new bald look either, but that she was glad to be alive. Now I see my mom first as one very brave woman. I don't care who stares."
- Ming, age 16
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
-Theodore Roosevelt
Changes in your family
Changing routines and responsibilities
Whatever your family situation, chances are that things have changed since your parent got sick. This chapter looks at some of these changes and ways that other teens have dealt with them.
Let your parents know if you feel that there is more to do than you can handle. Together, you can work it out.
Touching base when things are changing
Families say that it helps to make time to talk together, even if it's only for a short time each week. Talking can help your family stay connected. Here are some things to consider when talking with:
Brothers and sisters
- If you are the oldest child, your brothers or sisters may look to you for support. Help them as much as you can. It's okay to let them know that you're having a tough time, too.
- If you are looking to your older brother or sister for help, tell them how you are feeling. They can help, but won't have all the answers.
Try saying something like this . . .
"I'm doing the best job I can."
"How can we work together to get through this?"
Your parent who is well
- Expect your parent to feel some stress, just as you do.
- Your parent may snap at you. He or she may not always do or say the right thing.
- Lend a hand when you can.
Try saying something like this . . .
"How are you doing?"
"Is there anything I can do to help you out?"
Your parent with cancer
- Your mom or dad may be sick from the treatment or just very tired. Or maybe your parent will feel okay and want your company.
- Try talking if your mom or dad feels up to it. Let your parent know how much you love them.
Try saying something like this . . .
"I love you."
"Can I get you anything?"
Keeping family and friends in the loop
Is it getting to be too much to answer the phone and tell people how your mom or dad is doing? That can be a lot for anyone. Ask others to help you share news of how your parent is doing and what help your family needs. Maybe a relative or family friend can be the contact person. Some families use telephone chains. Others use e-mail, a blog, or a social media site.
Growing stronger as a family
Some families can grow apart for a while when a parent has cancer. But there are ways to help your family grow stronger and closer. Teens who saw their families grow closer say that it happened because people in their family:
- Tried to put themselves in the other person's shoes and thought about how they would feel if they were the other person.
- Understood that even though people reacted differently to situations, they were all hurting. Some cried a lot. Others showed little emotion. Some used humor to get by.
- Learned to respect and talk about differences. The more they asked about how others were feeling, the more they could help each other.
"I always took my parents' attention for granted. But after Dad got sick, nobody paid much attention to me. I know everybody has a lot to worry about, but it really hurt. Finally, I wrote a note to them. And they understood! I feel closer to my parents now."
- Lisa, age 15
Asking others for help
You and your family may need support from others. It can be hard to ask. Yet most of the time people really want to help you and your family.
People who your mom, dad, or you may ask for help:
- Aunts, uncles, and grandparents
- Family friends
- Neighbors
- Teachers or coaches
- School nurses or guidance counselors
- People from your religious community
- Your friends or their parents.
- (Add your own) _________________________________
"After Mom got cancer, I got mad at everything. It wasn't fair that I had to watch my little brother and clean. I felt like I was going to lose it, but tried to stay cool and told my mom how hard things were. Now I still have chores, but my little brother goes to a friend's after school, so that I can go to soccer. My mom's awesome. She really understood."
- Brandon, age 15
Things people can do to help:
- Go grocery shopping or run errands.
- Make meals.
- Mow the lawn.
- Do chores around the house.
- Keep your parent company.
- (Add your own) _________________________________
Other ways people can help you and your family:
- Give rides to school, practice, or appointments.
- Help with homework.
- Invite you over for a meal or a day trip.
- Talk with and listen to you.
- (Add your own) _________________________________
Your relationship with your parents
Your mom or dad may ask you to take on more responsibility than other kids your age. You might resent it at first. Then again, you may learn a lot from the experience and grow to appreciate the trust your parents have in you. See tips on talking with your parents.
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something."
-Edward Everett Hale
"I never used to get sick before Mom got cancer. But then I started getting headaches. My stomach hurt all the time, too. I started wondering if something was wrong with me. I talked to a nurse, and she said that stress can cause a lot of that stuff. She gave me some great advice and said I could talk with her whenever I wanted to. Slowly, I'm feeling better."
- Kira, age 15
Taking care of yourself
It's important to "stay fit"—both inside and out. This chapter offers tips to help you keep on track during this experience.
Dealing with stress
Stress can make you forgetful, frustrated, and more likely to catch a cold or the flu. Here are some tips that have helped other teens manage stress. Pick one or two things to do each week.
Take care of your mind and body
- Stay connected.
- Spend some time at a friend's house.
- Stay involved with sports or clubs.
- Relax and get enough sleep.
- Take breaks. You'll have more energy and be in a better frame of mind.
- Get at least 8 hours of sleep each night.
- Pray or meditate.
- Make or listen to music.
- Help others.
- Join a walk against cancer.
- Plan a bake sale or other charity event to collect money to fight cancer.
- Avoid risky behaviors.
- Stay away from smoking, drinking, and taking drugs.
- Put your creative side to work.
- Keep a journal to write down your thoughts and experiences.
- Draw, paint, or take photographs.
- Read biographies to learn what helped others make it through challenging times.
- Eat and drink well.
- Drinking plenty of water each day
- In the evening, switch to caffeine-free drinks that won't keep you awake.
- Grab fresh fruit, whole-grain breads, and lean meats like chicken or turkey when you have a choice.
- Avoid sugary foods.
- Be active.
- Play a sport, or go for a walk or run.
- Learn about different stretching and breathing exercises.
Exercise has been proven to make you feel better. Running, swimming, or even walking can help improve your mood.
"The best thing about the future is that it comes only one day at a time."
-Abraham Lincoln
Take steps to keep things simple
Staying organized can also keep your stress level under control. Here are some tips to get you started.
- At home
- Make a list of things you want to do and put the most important ones at the top.
- Make a big calendar to help your family stay on top of things.
- At school
- Try to get as much done in school as you can.
- Let your teachers know what's happening at home, without using it as an excuse.
- Talk to your teachers or a counselor if you are falling
- behind.
Many teens feel low or down when their parent is sick. It's normal to feel sad or "blue" during difficult times. However, if these feelings last for 2 weeks or more and start to interfere with things you used to enjoy, you may be depressed. The good news is that there is hope and there is help. Often, talking with a counselor can help. Below are some signs that you may need to see a counselor.
Are you:
Do you find that you are:
If you answered "yes" to any of these questions, it's important to talk to someone you trust. Read more about seeing a counselor or joining a support group in the section called Finding Support.
"Things weren't easy between me and my dad. We fought about everything. After he got cancer, I felt really bad. Then the nurse told me about this support group. I ended up going with a friend. At first I just listened. Then I realized they were going through some of the same things that I was and actually had some helpful advice. Dad and I talk more now and even laugh about the dumb fights we had."
- Alex, age 17
Finding support
It may not be easy to reach out for support—but there are people who can help you. This chapter has tips to help you talk with your parent(s), reach out to a counselor, and/or join a support group. Read on to find out what's worked for other teens.
Tips for talking with your parent
Prepare before you talk.
Step 1: Think about what you want to say.
Step 2: Think about how your parent might react. How will you respond to him or her?
Find a good time and place.
Step 1: Ask your mom or dad if they have a few minutes to talk.
Step 2: Find a private place—maybe in your room or on the front steps. Or maybe you can talk while taking a walk, shooting hoops, or doing an activity you both enjoy.
Take things slowly.
Step 1: Don't expect to solve everything right away. Difficult problems often don't have simple solutions.
Step 2: Work together to find a way through these challenges. Some conversations will go better than others.
Keep it up.
Step 1: Don't think you have to have just one big conversation. Have lots of small ones.
Step 2: Make time to talk a little each day if you can, even if it's just for a few minutes.
Jena listened to her best friend Renee and planned on talking with the counselor at her school. Other kids talk with social workers at the hospital. Going to a counselor doesn't mean you are crazy. It shows you have the courage to see that you need help to get through a very tough time.
Why go to a counselor?
Teens say it can be helpful to talk with someone outside the family—someone who doesn't take sides. A counselor is a person who will listen to you. They will help you find ways to better handle the things that bother you and gain strength in your situation.
Finding a Counselor
- Talk with your mom, dad, or someone else that you trust. Let them know you would like to talk to a counselor. Ask for help making appointments and getting to visits. Sometimes the counselor will even let you bring a friend.
- Ask a nurse or social worker at the hospital if they know someone you can talk to.
- Talk with your guidance counselor at school
"Turn your face to the sun, and the shadows fall behind you."
- Maori proverb
Joining a Support Group
Another good outlet is a support group. Some groups meet in person; others meet online. Some groups go out and have fun together. In these groups you'll meet other teens going through some of the same things that you are. At first this may not sound like something you want to do. Other teens say they thought the same thing - until they went to a meeting. They were surprised that so many others felt the same way they did and had advice that really seemed to work. A doctor, nurse, or social worker can help you find a support group.
"Grandma raised me to care about school. But after she got cancer, I had too much on my mind. And there was a lot to do to take care of her when I got home from school. My grades started to slip. I told my guidance counselor what was going on, and she shared some things that had worked for others. Now, whenever things start to get me down, I talk with my guidance counselor, who helps me feel less stressed. What's best is that she keeps everything we talk about private."
- Nick, age 15
You and your friends
Your friends are important to you, and you're important to them. In the past, you could tell them everything. Now that your parent has cancer, it may seem like a lot is changing—even your friendships. Here are some things to think about:
Your friends may not know what to say.
- It is hard for some people to know what to say. Others may think it's rude to ask questions.
- Try to be gentle on friends who don't ask about your parent's cancer or how you are doing.
- You may need to take the first step.
Try saying something like this . . .
"Talking about what's going on with my mom/dad is hard. I know that it's not easy to ask questions. Is there anything you want to talk about or know?"
Your friends may ask tough questions.
- You may not always feel like answering questions about your parent's cancer or treatment.
- Try saying something like this: "Talking about what's going on right now is hard, but it's nice of you to ask. The doctors are saying: [add in you own information here]..."
If you don't feel like talking, try saying something like this . . .
"Thanks for asking about my mom/dad but would it be okay if we talked about this later?"
Your friends have their own lives.
- It may feel like your friends don't care anymore. It might seem as though their lives are moving on, and yours isn't. It can be hard to watch them get together with others or do things without you. But try to understand that they have their own lives, too. They aren't facing the situation you are right now, so it may be hard for them to relate.
You might want to try saying something like this . . .
"I miss hanging out together. I know that I've had a lot on my mind since my dad got sick. I'm glad we're still friends. Want to hang out tomorrow?"
Having fun and making new friends
Old friends
Even though you may have a lot on your mind, you can still get together with your friends and have a good time. If you can't leave home as much, ask if your friends can come over. Take time to relax. It's good for you. Make a list of fun things you and your friends like to do together. Then do them!
New friends
A lot is happening to you right now. Sometimes old friends move on. You may not have as much in common as you used to. The good news is that you may find yourself making new friends. Kids who used to just pass you in the halls may now ask you how you are doing. Kids who you used to be friends with may enter your life again. Be open to new friendships.
Going to support groups at the hospital or clinic is a good way to meet new friends. It helps to connect with people who are going through some of the same things that you are. Try to do fun things together. The break will be good for all of you!
Dealing with hurtful remarks
Unfortunately, some kids may say mean things. Others speak before they think and before they get the facts. No matter the reason, it can hurt when kids make jokes or say hurtful things about you, cancer, or your parent.
- Ignore the comment.
- Say, "Hey, my dad has cancer. It's not funny. How would you feel if it was your dad?"
- Being bullied? Go to your teacher, principal, or guidance counselor right away.
"Do not protect yourself by a fence, but rather by your friends."
- Czech proverb
How you can help your parent
"Some days I felt really good about the little things I could do for my mom. Other times there wasn't anything I could do except just be with her. We didn't always have to talk. Even when I was quiet, I think my mom could sense my love."
- Vanessa, age 16
Here are some things that others have done to help their parent at home. Pick one or two things to try each week.
Help with care
Spend time with your parent.
Watch a movie together. Read the paper to your parent. Ask for help with your homework. Give hugs. Say, "I love you." Or just hang out in silence.
Lend a hand.
Bring water or offer to make a snack or small meal.
Help by being thoughtful
Try to be upbeat, but be "real," too.
Being positive can be good for you and your whole family. But don't feel like you always have to act cheerful, especially if it's not how you really feel. It's okay to share your thoughts with your parent--and let them comfort you. Be yourself.
Be patient.
You are all under stress. If you find you are losing your cool, listen to music, read, or go outside to shoot hoops or go for a run.
Share a laugh.
You've probably heard that laughter is good medicine. Watch a comedy on TV with your parent or tell jokes if that is your thing. Also, remember that you're not responsible for making everyone happy. You can only do so much.
Buy your parent a new scarf or hat.
Your parent might enjoy a new hat or scarf if he or she has lost their hair during treatment.
Help by staying involved
Keep your parent in the loop.
Tell your parent what you did today. Try to share what is going on in your life. Ask your parent how his or her day was.
Talk about family history.
Ask your parent about the past. Look through pictures or photo albums. Talk about what you're both most proud of, your best memories, and how you both have met challenges. Write, or make drawings, about what you and your parent share with each other.
Keep a journal together.
Write thoughts or poems, draw, or put photos in a notebook that the two of you share. This can help you share your feelings when it might be hard to speak them aloud.
Help with younger brothers and sisters.
Play with your brothers and sisters to give your parent a break. Pull out games or read a book with your siblings. This will help you stay close and also give your parent time to rest.
"Before my dad got cancer, I didn't take time to really notice all the stuff I had going for me. But I've learned to open my eyes more. Bad things happen in this world--like my dad getting cancer-- but it's a pretty wonderful place, too. Even while there's been a lot of added pressure on our family, I've learned to appreciate every day more."
- Kenyatta, age 18
"The journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step."
- Lao Tzu
After treatment
When your parent is finally done with treatment, you may feel a whole range of emotions. Part of you is glad it is over. Another part of you may miss the freedom or new responsibilities you had while your parent was getting treatment. You may feel confused that your parent still looks sick and is weaker than you expected. You may be afraid the cancer will come back. You may look at life differently now. All these feelings are normal. If you and your family are still feeling that life after treatment is harder than you thought it might be, you might want to talk to a counselor to get guidance through this time.
Things may not go back to exactly how they were before cancer came into your lives. Getting back to your "old life" may take a long time - or it may not happen as you expect.
Here are some things that others have to say about life after treatment. Do any of these kids sound like you?
Caleb talks about the "new normal":
"Now that my mom is done with chemo and radiation, things are pretty different. My older brother drove her to treatment. It was my job to get dinner and help my little sister, Jada, with homework each night. Now that Mom is better, Jada doesn't need as much help from me. For a while I was her hero. Look, I am glad Mom's treatment went well, but getting used to her being up and about is, well, different. My mom says it will take time."
- Caleb, age 15
Sarah appreciates life more:
"I have to admit it, before my mom got sick we fought a lot - over what I was wearing, who I hung out with, or why I wasn't nicer to my little sister. After my mother got cancer, we pulled together more. My sister and I got tight. She looked up to me to make sure we were going to be all right. Now stuff like painting my nails or wearing cool clothes don't matter as much. I even help run a support group for kids at my school who have a sick parent."
- Sarah, age 17
Jake is glad to have his dad back home:
"All I can say is that I never saw my dad cry until he finished his last chemo treatment. The doctors said they think they got all the cancer. My father was so emotional - glad to be alive. Then my mom and brother lost it, too. I have to say that I'm so glad my dad is better. I used to take him for granted. No more."
- Jake, age 16
What if treatment doesn't help?
If treatment doesn't help your parent, you and your family will face even more challenges. Hearing that your parent might die is very difficult. You may feel many of the same emotions you felt when you first learned that your mom or dad had cancer.
No booklet can give you all the answers or tell you exactly how you will feel. But when the future is so uncertain, teens say it helps to:
Make the most of the time you have.
Do special things as a family. At home, make time for your mom or dad. Call and visit as much as you can if your parent is in the hospital. Write notes and draw pictures. Say "I love you" often.
If possible, try to have some special times together. If you have not gotten along in the past, you may want to let your parent know you love him or her.
- Stay on track.
When people get bad news, they often feel like they're living outside of themselves - that life is moving along without them. That's why it's important to keep a schedule. Get up at the same time each day. Go to school. Meet with friends.
- Get help when you feel alone.
Make sure you find people who can help you. In addition to your family, it may help to talk to a social worker, counselor, or people in a support group.
"It was very hard to hear that my mom's treatment wasn't working anymore. She and I decided to make the most of each day. Some days we talk nonstop. Other times we just sit together and hold hands. But every day, I tell my mom how much I love her. You can't be afraid to love. Not ever. I learned that."
- Emily, age 16
If your parent passes away, know that...
You'll always have memories.
Your parent will always be part of your life. Hold on to your memories of the good times. Don't feel guilty that you're not respecting your parent's memory when you think about something funny that your parent did or said. By laughing and smiling you are bringing back just a little of what was so special about your parent.
The pain will get less intense with time.
At first the pain may be so strong that you might wonder whether you will ever feel happy again. Time has a way of healing. Not being sad every day doesn't mean that you have forgotten your parent. It just means that you are starting to heal.
Everyone grieves in his or her own way.
Some teens grieve for their parent's death by crying. Others get quiet and spend time by themselves. Some find that they need to be around friends and talk. Others get very angry. In any case, most people find it helps to keep a regular routine. There is no right way or wrong way to grieve. It's okay to deal with loss at your own pace.
Your parent would want you to be happy.
Stay open to new experiences. Write about your thoughts. Make small changes that give your life new meaning.
Life will change.
Life won't be the same as before, but it can be rich and full again. Keep believing this.
"Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
"The past cannot be changed; the future is still in your power."
- Hugh White
The road ahead
It can be hard to stay calm when you aren't sure what the future holds. You may be thinking - will my parent survive cancer? Will the cancer come back? Will life ever be the same? Will I laugh again?
While no one can know the future, there are things you can do to make your life a little more stable:
Keep talking and pulling together as a family. You may find that cancer has drawn you closer together and made you appreciate each other more than ever.
Discover your own needs. Don't let others tell you how you should feel. Allow yourself to cope at your own pace and in your own way.
Remember that you're growing as a person. Many teens say that having a parent with cancer has made them more sympathetic, more responsible, and stronger.
Accept people's help. Right now you may feel lonelier than you ever have in your life. But you are not alone. Family, friends, support groups, neighbors, and counselors are there to lend a helping hand, listen to you, and be there for you.
"Don't get me wrong, I'm so glad that treatment is over. Seeing my stepdad so sick was hard to take. But now that he's back home, well, bedtime is back to 10:00, no more late night TV, I have to say where I'll be and when I'll be home... basically, we're back to the old rules."
- Monica, age 17
Appreciate each day. Many teens who have a parent with cancer say that they learned to see the world more clearly. In time you may come to appreciate things you may have overlooked in the past.
Maybe you have noticed that little things seem to have more meaning for you these days. Take some time to write these thoughts down, even if they seem small:
"No one knows the story of tomorrow's dawn."
- Ashanti proverb
"To know the road ahead, ask those coming back."
- Chinese proverb
Learning more on your own
It's great that you want to learn more. Keep in mind that cancer treatments are getting better all the time. Make sure that what you read or see is up to date and accurate. Talk with your parent or other trusted adult about what you find. Share the articles or books you've found with them. Ask them any questions you may have. You can get information from:
- Your school or public library
Ask the librarian to help you find the information or support that you're looking for in books, magazines, videos, or on the Internet.
- The Internet
Use an Internet search engine and type in general words like "parent" and "cancer" together to get started. Keep in mind that the Internet has a lot of good information. It also has a lot of poor information and false promises, so you may want to check with your parent or another trusted adult about what you find.
- Your parent's hospital or clinic
Visit the patient education office at your parent's hospital, if there is one. Or, ask if you can go with your parent during their visit to the doctor - to learn more.
Help is a phone call or web site away
Find more organizations:
Visit www.cancer.gov and type "national organizations" into the search box. You will find a list of National Organizations That Offer Cancer-Related Services. These organizations provide emotional, financial, and/or informational support to people with cancer and their families. Or call 1-800-4-CANCER (1-800-422-6237) to learn more.
Here are some places to contact for help. You can call them or visit their Web site for more information.
National Cancer Institute (NCI)
NCI has up-to-date, accurate information for you and your family. Get answers to your questions and learn more by calling us, visiting our Web site, or ordering our publications. We provide information in both English and Spanish on types of cancer, treatment, clinical trials, supportive care, complementary and alternative medicine, as well as on screening, prevention, and genetics. You will also find a dictionary of cancer terms, and a drug dictionary, on our site. We are a federal government agency that is part of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
Web www.cancer.gov and www.cancer.gov/espanol
Online Chat www.cancer.gov/livehelp
E-mail email@example.com
Phone 1-800-4-CANCER (1-800-422-6237)
Publications www.cancer.gov/publications or call 1-800-4-CANCER
American Cancer Society (ACS)
ACS is a nationwide, community-based voluntary health organization. ACS offers a variety of services and programs for patients and their families. ACS also supports research, provides printed materials, and conducts educational programs. Staff can accept calls and distribute publications in Spanish.
Web www.cancer.org
Phone 1-800-ACS-2345 (1-800-227-2345)
American Society of Clinical Oncology (ASCO)
ASCO has oncologist-approved cancer information to help patients and families make informed health care decisions. ASCO's site also has podcasts and videos for patients and family members. The site also includes a section on camps and retreats for families and children touched by cancer.
Web www.cancer.net
Cancer Support Community (CSC)
The Cancer Support Community (CSC) was formed by the merger of Gilda's Club Worldwide and The Wellness Community. CSC is an international non-profit organization that has a network of personalized services and education for all people affected by cancer. Its free programs include support groups, counseling,
education, and healthy lifestyle initiatives. These support services are available online and through local affiliates.
Web www.cancersupportcommunity.org
E-mail firstname.lastname@example.com
Phone 1-888-793-WELL (1-888-793-9355)
CancerCare provides free professional support services and publications to anyone affected by cancer, including the patient's children and loved ones. Services include counseling and support groups, education, financial assistance, and practical help. CancerCare also accepts calls and distributes publications in Spanish. Limited grants are available to eligible families for cancer-related costs like transportation and childcare.
Web www.cancercare.org
E-mail email@example.com
Phone 1-800-813-HOPE (1-800-813-4673)
Cancer team members
|Team Member
|What They Do
|A health professional trained to care for people who are ill or disabled
|Nutritionist/ dietitian
|A health professional with special training in nutrition who can help with dietary choices
|A doctor who specializes in treating people with cancer. Some oncologists specialize in certain types of cancer or certain types of cancer treatment.
|Patient educator
|Educates patients and families about illness
|Dispenses medicines for patients
|Physical therapist
|Teaches exercises and physical activities that help patients gain more muscle strength and movement
|A doctor who treats mental health problems, including depression, with medicine and talk therapy
|Talks with patients and their families about emotional and personal matters and helps them make decisions, but does not write prescriptions for medicines
|A doctor who looks at x-rays and other images of the body
|Religious or spiritual leader
|Addresses the spiritual and emotional health of patients and their families. This can be a chaplain, minister, priest, rabbi, imam, or youth group leader.
|Social worker
|Talks with people and their families about emotional or physical needs and helps them find support services
|A doctor who removes or repairs a part of the body by operating on the patient
Monitoring tests
|Used to find out whether a tumor or abnormality is cancer. Benign means it is not cancer. Malignant means that it is cancer.
|A doctor removes a sample from a person using one of two ways: with a long needle (needle biopsy) or by making a small cut (surgical biopsy).
|Blood test
|Checks the blood to see whether the balance of the cells and chemicals is normal
|A nurse or technician inserts a needle into a vein, usually in the arm. Then he or she draws blood.
|Bone marrow aspiration
|Collects a small sample of cells from inside a bone to be examined under a microscope
|A needle is used to remove a small sample of tissue from a bone (usually the hip bone).
|CAT scan or CT scan (Computerized axial tomography)
|Uses x-rays and a computer to produce threedimensional (3-D) images of the inside of the body
|The patient lies flat on a table, which moves through a large tube while a series of x-rays is taken.
|MRI (Magnetic resonance imaging)
|Uses radio and magnetic waves to make images of organs and other tissues inside the body
|The patient lies flat on a table, which moves through a large tube while an MRI machine scans the body for several minutes.
|PET scan (Positron emission tomography)
|Uses computerized pictures of areas inside the body to find cancer cells
|The patient gets an injection and then a machine takes computerized pictures of areas inside the body.
|Spinal tap (Lumbar puncture)
|Collects a sample of the fluid inside the spine to be examined under a microscope
|A needle is used to remove fluid from the spine in the lower back.
|Ultrasound (Ultrasonography)
|Uses high-frequency sound waves to make images of internal organs and other tissues inside the body
|A technician moves a small handheld device over an area on the patient's body. An image appears on the computer screen.
|Takes a picture of the inside of the body using highenergy waves
|The patient is placed in front of the x-ray machine or lies on a table.


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- Legislative Reports
- Cory Jasperson to Lead AOC's Office of Governmental Affairs
- InFocus: Branch Budget
- Other Government Websites
- Assembly Bill 1208
2013 Summary of Court-Related Legislation
The 2013 Summary of Court–Related Legislation has brief descriptions of new laws, arranged according to subject matter, that affect the courts or are of general interest to the legal community. The summary also includes statements for each new or amended statute that is determined to impact court operations and procedures; a table summarizing new laws that create or expand crimes; and an index with flags for bills affecting the distribution of fees, fines, etc. Select "2013" from the drop-down menu under "Legislative Summaries" below.
Spotlight on Assembly Bill 566
Since AB 566 was introduced in February 2013, the Judicial Council has taken a firm stance in opposition to the bill by Assembly Member Bob Wieckowski (D-Fremont) which restricts the trial courts' ability to enter into contracts for services. It is set to be heard in the Senate Appropriations Committee on August 12, 2013.
Advance Jury Fees
As part of the FY 2012-13 budget trailer language, recent amendments to the Code of Civil Procedure change the deadlines for deposit of advance jury fees and makes them non-refundable. Click here for Frequently Asked Questions about the new fee and changes affecting attorneys and parties.
Each year, the Judicial Council adopts legislative and budget priorities to pursue with the legislative and executive branches.
Each year, the Governmental Affairs Office distributes to all appellate courts a table of bills that affect appellate courts.
The Governmental Affairs Office monitors legislative activity and represents the Judicial Council before the Legislature, the Governor's Office, and executive branch agencies and departments. The 2013 Legislative Policy Summary is an abstract of council action regarding court-related legislative proposals. The summary is organized by policy area and includes how the actions further the objectives of the six goals of Justice in Focus: The Strategic Plan for California's Judicial Branch, 2006-2012. The table that follows each policy area shows actions taken on legislation that illustrate the policy. The table does not include every bill on which a council position was taken.


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Members' Conduit account - "Your Money. Your Choice."
The Credit Union Members' Conduit is an organization, sponsored by The League, which receives and transfers contributions to candidates for state office or legislative committees. Different from the political action committee, WCULAF, which follows the directions of the Government Affairs Committee, The League must obtain authorization from the conduit account holder in order to release funds to a candidate. That means that The League must get your expressed permission before donating to an individual or organization. By using the Members' Conduit account, both the individual account holder and the credit union movement get credit for campaign fundraising efforts!
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The League will send out monthly balances to keep you up to date on how much you have in your account. Please contact Chris Borgerding to update your contact information.
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AMERICAN LEGION POSTUtica Post vs. Whitestown Post at SUNYIT, Marcy, 5:30 p.m.New Hartford Post vs. Smith Post at RFA Stadium, Rome, 6 p.m.Clonan/Wicks-Staley vs. Helmuth-Ingalls Post at Clinton High School, 6 p.m.Ilion Post vs. Parkhurst Post at DeLutis Field, Rome, 6 p.m.Moran/Sylvan Beach vs. Sherrill Post at Vernon-Verona-Sherrill High School, 6 p.m.JUNIOR AMERICAN LEGION BASEBALLWilliam Russell Post vs. Clonan/Wick-Staley at Sauquoit Valley High School, 6 p.m.
LITTLE FALLS, N.Y.�� The Mohawk Valley DiamondDawgs played long ball Wednesday night and defeated the Adirondack Trail Blazers 9-3 at Veterans Memorial Park.
PERFECT GAME COLLEGIATE BASEBALL LEAGUEGlens Falls Golden Eagles 5, Elmira Pioneers 4, 10 inningsMohawk Valley DiamondDawgs 9, Adirondack Trail Blazers 3Amsterdam Mohawks at Utica Brewers, postponed (rescheduled for July 27)
Week in Religion
When the oldest son came home talking about how he�s studying terrorism in school, I didn�t even wait until after dinner to pull out the pictures. I knew if I hesitated, I�d never tell him what it had been like that Wednesday in Oklahoma City.�
July 10Word of the Day, Website of the Day, Number to Know, This Day in History, Today�s Featured Birthday and Daily Quote.Word of the Daylouche \ LOOSH \ adjective; Of questionable taste or morality. � Dictionary.com
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Bad press for libervis
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:37 pm
Post subject: Bad press for libervis
It has come to my attention that this subject has been blown clear out of proportion.
Please note that I am not trying to bash rms or the FSF. None of this article is trolling. It is but healthy debate, which is constructive.
I wonder if people have even read the article at all, or they are simply commenting for the sake of doing so and thereby jumping on the bandwagon. Is it wrong to disagree with the Free Software Foundation? I know for a fact that many of you aren't free purists, as I am.
So, let's get this straightened out, shall we?
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:01 pm
Post subject:
Uh, I think it's there for you to straighten out, not "we"! And it's in lwn.net's thread... Perhaps you should follow up there. :)
lwn.net totally rocks, imho.
P.S. If you're not trying to bash someone you should leave out trigger words like "hypocrite".
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:53 am
Post subject: Re: Bad press for libervis
dylan wrote:
Is it wrong to disagree with the Free Software Foundation?
Oh, and things like that drive me nuts. You call them hypocrites, then people point out the reasoning behind their use of debian and why it isn't hypocritical, and you do the "oh, they're attacking me because FSF is sacred, not because what I said was misinformed..."
P.S. I changed subject too :)
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:56 pm
Post subject:
If you honestly believe your aggravation is justified as indignation by claiming my opinion was misinformed, we have little to discuss.
The FSF is very strict about what they think is "truth" when it comes to digital liberation. They have rejected offers of both money and useful hardware from different companies in the past because either (a) the money was coming from a company the FSF has beef with, or (b) the hardware (presumably a server) doesn't support a free BIOS.
Simply changing their operating system to meet their own strict ideals should not be very difficult, given that there are free alternatives with server installs (e.g. blag, gnewsense, ututo, etc. all have server-esque install options.)
The bottom line is: When someone sets a standard for the general population, then fails to meet that standard of idealism for themselves (regardless of technical circumstances or lack of flexibility due to misused resources in the past) - it becomes hypocrisy. The word sounds harsh, but with a quick definition of the broad terminology, we see that the word is not actually harsh at all.
Hypocrisy is the act of pretending to have beliefs, virtues and feelings that one does not truly possess. The word derives from the late Latin hypocrisis and Greek hupokrisis both meaning play-acting or pretence. The word is arguably derived from hypo- meaning small, + krinein meaning to decide/to dispute. A classic example of a hypocritical act is to denounce another for carrying out some action whilst carrying out the same action oneself.
I personally believe Debian to be free-by-default, as they guarantee so on their web site. Not the restricted and contrib repos, of course, but because they claim:
We provide the guidelines that we use to determine if a work is "free" in the document entitled "The Debian Free Software Guidelines". We promise that the Debian system and all its components will be free according to these guidelines. We will support people who create or use both free and non-free works on Debian. We will never make the system require the use of a non-free component.
That's #1 on the social contract.
But, when you think about it -- the FSF probably has their own Debian repos set up somewhere. Nevertheless, they should either loosen their definiton of a free distro or switch to another Debian-based distro like gNewSense.
If anything, my aggravation is justified as indignation. Good day.
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:36 pm
Post subject:
I hate when people get absorbed in words and not in meaning. Christmas wouldn't be commercialized if people weren't so obsessed with the ritual as with the actual metaphor of what it stands for.
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:09 pm
Post subject:
Dylan, I believe the discussion is a valid one, since the FSF is a public entity, it shall set an example.
I understand it is a sensitive subject, as most here are ardent advocate of the FSF.
It is RMS's job to be non compromising, just like it is the Pope's job to state the only way not to contract aids is abstinence. Both are in their respective role.
That said, I have a tremendous respect for the Free Software militants, because they protect us, end-users (and we end-users are more laxist whith running non-free software).
But, as of the FSF servers running Debian, this should change, because such a public entity has to set an example, since they are the ones who only recomend a handfull of distro...
-Why don't they run Blag or gNewSense ???
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:15 pm
Post subject:
Martin, it is good to know that somebody is of sound mind around here.
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:19 pm
Post subject:
Caraibes wrote:
-Why don't they run Blag or gNewSense ???
Not to put either Blag or gNewSense down, I'm running both at the moment, perhaps Debian is a more stable platform for a server. I think the fsf and rms find that they must be stringent in providing their imprimatur on a distro. But ultimately the goal is to use only free software. I think the attitude is that it's not wrong to use debian so long as you don't use the non-free bits. But since debian makes it relatively easy to download those bits, it can't give it's blessing to the distro. It's a fine point, but I don't think it's inconsistent.
Ed LaBonte
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:19 am
Post subject:
Remember, their list is a list of distros they find that are Free and only have Free repos. Debian doesn't meet that as they have a non-Free repo. It's just a simple list of "these distros are 100% free". That said, they're not telling people /not/ to run debian or that debian sucks or anything like that.
Why they run debian is probably because it's what RMS used to run years ago (before any distro met their criteria) and it's a good server OS they can deploy and be 100% free. The other distros on their list aren't really server distros (well, blag can be, but I prefer debian myself for long-term servers).
It would be hypocracy if they were running non-Free software, not that they are running debian...
Again, to repeat myself, they aren't telling people NOT to run debian. They just have a list of distros that are 100% free. Debian has a non-free repo, so they aren't on the list. They are running debian with 100% free bits--no hypocracy. Read this sentence 10 times.
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:32 am
Post subject:
jebba wrote:
Read this sentence 10 times.
Read this sentence 10 times.
Read this sentence 10 times.
Read this sentence 10 times.
Read this sentence 10 times.
Read this sentence 10 times.
Read this sentence 10 times.
Read this sentence 10 times.
Read this sentence 10 times.
Read this sentence 10 times.
Read this sentence 10 times.
Okay, done...
Ed LaBonte
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:49 am
Post subject:
Heh. It was one sentence...now should be paragraph. ;)
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:54 am
Post subject:
Almost anything can happen with self-referencing sentences ...
Take this sentence, for instance.
No, not that one this one.
Ed LaBonte
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:51 am
Post subject:
ewl wrote:
Almost anything can happen with self-referencing sentences ...
Take this sentence, for instance.
No, not that one this one.
When I first read your ten lines I thought of Quine--now it's really being hammered home...
quine wrote:
yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation.
I once met Willard Van Orman Quine and got to talk to him for a bit. I asked him how the "theory of evolution" met Popper's standard of testability (quickly: science isn't proven, just puts itself at risk of being disproven) after he said he supported both evolution and Popper's ideas of science vs. pseudoscience. "Overwhelming evidence" was the response I gathered...
Honestly though, I hope I never have to read his works again.
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:41 am
Post subject:
ewl wrote:
I think the attitude is that it's not wrong to use debian so long as you don't use the non-free bits. But since debian makes it relatively easy to download those bits, it can't give it's blessing to the distro. It's a fine point, but I don't think it's inconsistent.
Fine with me... But then, they should say so in the same page where they recommend the distros... Since they guide us to purity, they should state and explain why they are using Debian on there servers, without using the non-free repos. They should write down why it's ok for them and not for us.
I don't see that whole matter as inconsistence, but as lack of explanation. And it is important for the FSF to clarify its move as a bunch of human beings are closely following their acts & guidelines.
Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:48 am
Post subject:
jebba wrote:
they aren't telling people NOT to run debian. They just have a list of distros that are 100% free. Debian has a non-free repo, so they aren't on the list. [-Jeff
Ok, but why not clarify the whole deal, and write down a couple of paragraphs explaining what you just wrote ?
While I follow completely your reasoning, you might admit that their lack of information is misleading to the general public who happens to browse their website in search of a Free distro.
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Ice ForecastsIssued 11:00 AM EST 23 November 2014 Today Tonight and Monday
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