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Prime Rib Roast Successes and Disasters....
It's the day after Christmas 2011, and I'm reading about the disasters, both the less than desired and failed results to the expensive roast they purchased for the Holiday Dinner....The prelude to every holiday always has requests for recipes and methods to roast this cherished cut of meat and make it impressive and unforgettable ....the usual members on Home Cooking (like myself) give their preferred methods of preparation and roasting methods....There are usually three camps of wisdom:
1. The low and slow approach.....140-250* for however long it takes
2. Moderate heat of 325-350* .....usually takes about 90-180 minutes depending on size and weight.
3. High Heat of 450-500*....for up to an hour at first, shut off the temp and do not open the door for a period of time....again depending on size and weight.
Now I understand everyone has their different tastes and levels of temperature acceptability...Opinions have often tried to figure out why each poster who recommends an alternative to theirs does so. The only reason I can come up with, like others have opined, is simply that is all they know and how it's always been done in their family. They believe there is no other way.
The problem though is the disasters are unforgettable for the wrong reasons...they either did not like the taste or the finished result.... over-cooked meat which is dry and tough, as opposed to moist and tender. It's obvious to me to give yourself the best chance to make a great roast, you should embrace the low and slow approach which eliminates the possibility of over cooking unless you are passed out for more than two hours of your target temperature.
To those who will not embrace low and slow, what's holding you back?
To those who do embrace low and slow, your thoughts...again please, to try and convince these others from potentially making another disaster..
I guess what held me back from the low and slow this year, was last year I did low and slow and everyone was upset at the doneness of the meat. It was too rare. The main problem was the meat thermometer was reading 130 last year, but when I pulled it out is was only 120 with my instant read. We thought it would carry over enough but it didn't so everyone didn't like how rare it was, the crowd likes a light pink. But i'll tell you what, even though it was a little under, at least you can fix it, if it over cooks you are screwed, like happened to me this year.
So this year they wanted to do the 450f for 15 mins then 325f, but they wanted it medium, not medium rare. I had a probe in the meat set to alarm at 130F and i thought it would carry to 140. When the probe said 130 i pulled it out and tested it in a new area as I was worried that the temp may be off from the probe touching a brace in the top of the oven like it was last year. When I tested it with a good instant read it was on ly at 121 in the center. I let it go anther 30 mins and poked it again and now it was reading 135F. I let it rest for 40 mins and it went all the way to 150-155 around the center. It was gray all the way.
I will go back to the slow and low method as at least it won't carry over 15-20 degrees like it did from a 325 Oven.
Do you guys prefer the blow torch method or the cook it low, let it rest, then put it back in 500F until it browns up, then carve? Also, cooking at 200F, can i cook it to 130 then cover it and expect it to be about 135 after resting. I think that will be about right for medium won't it..
re: Swamibob
First, you need to know the premise of low and slow method is that it mimics the dry aging process and breaks down the meat so it can become tender. With that said, there is a difference in the overall tenderness of meat when comparing meat cooked to medium-rare with low and slow, as opposed to moderate or high. For me it's more enjoyable with the former than the latter. You can tell the difference by simply when you slice the meat or when it's on the plate with a knife and fork, or fork alone.
Your previous experience with low and slow was caused by inaccurate readings at different points or stages. Also, the carry over less than expected with the low temperature used. Your results this year with the higher temperature roast caused you heat control issues and carry over temperature.....the outer meat was hotter, which caused greater increase in holdover temperature rising. With low and slow @ 225, I expect and increase of 5-7* at most. With 200*, I would expect no more than 3*. With the higher 325, that was quite a spike even I would not have anticipated.
Pretty much everything can be explained on the low and slow approach in the following threads, with slight variations by individual posters.:
This thread will provide you with information and test results I did with cheaper cuts of meat that I had successes and failures using 220* as a test temperature and Chuck Roast.
I think if you use 220-250* as your roasting temperature...based on the details you have provided and with your families preferences....you should pull on the higher side of the meat temperature scale for medium rare and the low side for medium.....i.e., 128-132.....expecting a rise in temperature for holdover cooking to be 7-10 .
For my medium-rare roasts, I roast at 225* for 4.5-5.5 hours and pull at 118-122*, rest covered for an hour, place back into the oven for 20-30 minutes at 250* and finish with a high heat blast at 500*+ for 8-12 minutes. I find this method produces a dark outer ring or crust, and a nice consistent bright pink color in the eye throughout the entire roast.
Having served a lot of Prime Rib over the years both commercially and at home, people's conception on the actual finished temperature of medium is vastly different, especially when colors are considered. Based on your details, I would recommend a range of 135 -140.....but please do not go above 140....As you have stated...you can cook up, but not down.
Thanks for participating in the discussion.
re: fourunder
Thanks for inviting me to the discussion. I think everyone participating in the discussion is on a quest for the perfect piece of meat.
So your idea for me will be to roast at 225 until 128-132 but then what? Let it rest an hour like you do and do the 250 for 20 mins, then 500+ to sear it? it seems like that may take it too high for me, Also with your method of turning it up after the 20-30 mins at 250, do you take it out of the over and let it get to 500+ before you do the final sear, and then at that point to you give it another rest period since it has cooked at 250 again and then 500 or is another rest period not necessary?
I do like the idea of how you do your's, and it is a little different from any I have read, if it's not a real bloody med-rare when you are done. I think that is what turns everyone off and that is why they want it medium because they don't want the pool of blood on the platter.
Thanks again for any ideas and information.
re: Swamibob
first, ultimately it depends on the size of your roast and whether it includes bones or not. Anything under 3 ribs, I consider a large steak and treat it as such. I also like to err on the safe side, so please take that into account.
If you want to serve as quickly as possible,
* when you reach your target temperature, remove your roast and raise your oven to 450-500* for about 5 minutes to raise the temperature of the oven.
* Place your roast back into the oven to brown for 8-15 minutes, the time determined by the size and shape...flat as opposed to a higher more rounded shape.
* .Remove your roast and cover for at least 20 minutes, but 30 is better.. this is the resting period which allows the juice to redistribute throughout the roast.
* You are ready to slice and serve. Bleeding should be minimal.
So your idea for me will be to roast at 225 ....
This method you remove the roast when it hits the target temperature, cover and rest for 60 minutes. The next step is to warm the roast back up to serving temperature, it is not a second cooking intended to cook up the meat anymore, it is what I call the warm up phase. The previous resting period of one hour usually increases 5*+ , called the carry over effect. For a small 3-4 rib roast, I would pull out the roast for a few minutes while readying the 500* high heat blast. Put the roast back in for 8-12-15 minutes, again determined by size and shape. I would not remove a 5-7 rib roast while readying for the high heat blast. Remove from the oven and you are ready to slice. There is no need for a second resting period. You could slice immediately or soon after without any serious drop in meat temperature.
I have probably made a half dozen large Prime Rib Roasts since Thanksgiving 2010 using the guidelines I have just described. In the past, I used to rest only for 30 minutes, after hitting the target temperature and the final high heat blast....similar to the Serve As Quickly As Possible above. The roast was always great, but there was always a slight or noticeable amount of bleeding. After using the later method and increasing the resting period first to 45 minutes and ultimately to an hour....the results were for better on the finished roast. Zero bleeding on the plate....maybe a touch on the meat.
The family and friend are always required to give an honest assessment in an attempt to find the ultimate fool proof recipe, or process. These last half dozen roasts have been carried out with nary a single complaint. I usually purchase my meat exclusively at a wholesale meat purveyor, but I have even done a couple of these tests with rib roasts purchased at the local supermarket when on sale.
The following link is to a eGForum thread where comments are mostly positive for a low and slow attempt. Only one comment noticed the amount of bleeding and pooling of meat juices on the plate. I'm sure the roast was still good, but he simply did not allow for enough time to rest the meat. I would like others to know this could be avoided and remove the fear roasting prime rib is a gut wrenching experience.....no matter how you like your meat. Please do not cringe when you view the pictures.....
re: fourunder
First, I want to wish all a Happy and Healthy Holiday Season. Second, I want to than all that have participated in this discussion to date.....we have all enjoyed a good ride and we have all benefited in learning from the positive experiences of other who have shared their stories. I am humbled and honored to those who have trusted my comments and had the confidence to allow me to be part of their Holiday table ...through the greatest cut of beef...The Prime Rib Roast. There is nothing more traditional for the Holidays for many families.
As I have indicated already, I planned for two Prime Rib Roasts this year. One was 4-Ribs @ 10+ pounds and the other was 3-Ribs @ 7+ pounds each. Both roasts were from the Chuck End/Center Cut/Blade End, as it's the side I prefer for the added fat it offers.
Both roasts were trimmed a little too much for my liking, so I asked the butcher to give me some extra fat scraps to roast atop each roast to correct that issue. Each roast was allowed to Dry-Age. or simply air dry in the refrigerator for 7 days leading up to Christmas Day roasting. Two days before roasting, I prepared the roasts by partially slicing off the bones and seasoning the roast with just Kosher Salt and Fresh Cracked Black Pepper. The roasts were then subsequently tied off
The recipe, or roasting process was basically the same as always, except to note that 200* was the setting that was chosen to roast at this year. The steps were simple:
* Dry-Age for 7 Days
* Season 48 hours in advance
* Preheat oven to 450*
* Brown/Sear the roast for 20 minutes @ 450*
* Drop the oven setting to 200*
* Target temperature around 120* for Medium-Rare
* Hold the roast inside the oven @ 140* for at least two hours.
* 450* High heat blast for 10 minutes
* Ready to slice and serve
Everything was pretty much standard and expected. The only notable instances to report are that:
* Both roast hit temperature sooner than expected @ the 3 hour mark. The 3-Rib hit 122* and the 4-Rib hit 122*
* Circumstances this year forced both roasts to be held for longer than expected resting periods....3.5 and 4.5 hours before the first slice was made.
* Bleeding was minimal and not expected, but nevertheless, the end result was good and thankfully a couple of notches on the success side.
Enjoy the pictures....
re: fourunder
Preparation pictures before roasting....
re: fourunder
Ready to roast pictures .....
re: Swamibob
I like browning it first, either in a hot oven, in a pan, or with a torch. I'm always concerned about the browning at the end method -- it seems to me that after you've taken such care to make it uniform all the way through, browning at the end runs the risk of overdone on the outer layer and rising too much as it rests. Seems to me it introduces the problem we are trying to avoid. And it seems a bit complicated with two resting periods, two cooking/warming periods and an unpredictable high heat blast.
But others swear by it.
re: acgold7
...it seems a bit complicated with two resting periods, two cooking/warming periods and an unpredictable high heat blast.
I used to have your exact same sentiments...and may have actually commented exactly as you have word for word in the past here, and elsewhere.
To clarify my method, there is only one resting period, then a reheat and high heat blast. There is no second resting period. My experience has also proved the overall texture of the roast benefits from the longer resting period of one hour and less at 20-30 minutes. The evidence is the ease of chew and the zero amount of bleeding, or lack of juice pooling on the plate.
My methods and opinions were formulated using the seriouseats.com *Perfect Prime Rib* apporoach as a references and using variations to improve (in my opinion only).
re: fourunder
I do believe you, completely, because it's obvious you've done a lot of study and experimentation on this.
You don't rest the roast after the sear at the end? You remove from the oven and carve immediately? Interesting.
re: acgold7
The sear doesn't penetrate the inside meat. The meat has already been rested.
I'm using this method this year. I put a lot of faith in Kenji.
re: acgold7
I changed from searing or browning in the beginning, and the Cook's Illustrated method a few years back. For lack of a better word, I may still brown initially in a 450 oven for 10-15 minutes....but my purpose is not really to brown or sear.....rather, it's really more to bring back up the temperature of the oven after opening the door and inserting the roast.
I gave up on the stove....there's less to clean, i.e., the brazier pan and stove top splatter.
Entering *Medium-Rare Prime Rib Images* in a Google search....
These two pictures came about. My results with low and slow look like the first link, bright pink evenly throughout, including deckle...but never remotely close to the darker gray ring and dark deckle result in the second
So what's your idea of *Medium-Rare*.....the first or second image?
re: fourunder
I prefer the first image. That is how I like my filets to turn out as well. I do a high sear on the grill for 2 mins on each side, then I turn the burner off under the steaks and like them cook slowly with indirect heat only and it will turn out with only a 1/4" of gray where they were seared and all the rest will be a solid pink color. That is how it should be, the most amount of meat at the perfect temperature.
re: fourunder
Sorry, I forgot to attach the example of how I like my fillet.
re: Swamibob
Very nice....in one of the threads above where I roasted different chuck roasts at different temps and times......the ones that look like the fillet above were equally enjoyable, albeit chewier than the fillet.
re: fourunder
I would definitely call the photo in the first link "med-rare" and the second link "medium." Although the photo in the second link is pink right at the center, the rest of the meat looks way too done to be called medium rare.
re: biondanonima
Agreed, my assessment is exactly the same as yours.....I'll go on to add further that, the first link is in line with roasting low and slow.....the second link is closer to the high heat for an hour or so, then shutting off the oven for two.
re: fourunder
Makes sense. I'm definitely going to give your method a shot the next time I have a big roast to do - have you tried this method with other large roasts, like a leg of lamb, etc?
re: biondanonima
In general, I roast all meats @ 225*. I have tried lower temperatures, but for my concerns and needs, the longer time has not produced any significant results to warrant the extra time need to reach target temperatures. I probably roast two large 10-12 pound chuck roasts (3 inches thick), a couple of times a month, the same with pork shoulders, an occasional turkey and YES, with Leg of Lamb as well. I prefer the low and slow over the more moderate heat of 325-375 most recipes call for. A full leg of lamb usually takes 3.5-4.5 hours depending on size.
Other Cuts @ 225
Tri-Tip or Whole Top Butt Sirloin I seam out.
Pork Loin, Rib End Roast and Rack of Pork, Fresh Ham and Spare Ribs
Turkey 16+ pounds......12-14 pound I find I prefer 275*
Even Steaks and Chops can benefit if they are thick cuts.(reverse sear)
Chickens are the exception to low and slow method, as I find the meat becomes rubbery.
With regards to the leg of lamb or Prime Rib....if you like to make slits and fill with garlic cloves, the low and slow approach does not work well ....the garlic really doesn't soften and is raw to taste and smell.
re: fourunder
Thanks for all this detail! Re: garlic cloves, I actually find that they don't soften enough for my taste even with higher heat. If I want garlic flavor, I prefer to fill the slits either with pre-roasted garlic or a paste made with crushed fresh and mashed roasted garlic (I just pipe it in with a piping bag or smush it in with my fingers). You don't get the visual effect of the whole cloves but I much prefer the flavor.
Low & Slow is romantic, rhymes, and is part of popular culture, whats not to like?
I realize buying a whole rib roast is somewhat of an investment and makes people somewhat nervous. The seemingly never-ending debate over various methods adds to the anxiety.
Carving an entire rib roast at the table is incredibly sexy (we once did a hanging leg of beef - that was cool), but I feel I can get a tastier end product.
Its this reason that I don't necessarily "embrace low and slow".
I really enjoy BBQ and grilling in general, so when doing prime rib, I do a mixed method approach: I sear in a very hot oven, let rest, carve, then grill over live maple charcoal.
The sear gives a delicious crust (cannot get this from low and slow), the grill gives incredible flavor. The grill also gives me more control over the doneness of each serving. This is useful as my table runs the gamut of rare to shoe leather (gotta love the mother-in-law...).
Granted, this is not a straightforward roast prep, but this is why I don't go the low&slow route. Actually, a few other steps are involved: I cut away the ribs, rub the roast and rack with Montreal steak spice, tie the ribs back onto the roast, wrap, and fridge overnight (a slight cure). Next day, it warms to room temp, then into a 550F oven for an hour, taken out and left to cool to room temp. I can proceed to grill or wrap and fridge until ready. I cut away the ribs and grill over live charcoal. I carve the boneless roast into portions (the center is raw/rare) and grill to desired doneness.
Serve the portion with a sliced off bone.
re: porker
* When you sear in a hot oven, at what temperature and for how long?
* How long do you allow to rest before carving?
* Is there much difference from your slice and grill beef cut portion compared to an individual steak portion that has been rubbed and grilled over the same coals?
re: fourunder
* 550F oven for an hour
* At least and hour. I have wrapped and fridged up to 2 days in advance. In this case, I'd let it come to room temp before grilling.
If I carved right out of the oven, it would bleed out.
* Night and day. The steak spice overnight cures the exterior. The sear gives a very tasty crust.
When I ran a restaurant in a previous life, I'd occasionally offer this prime rib as a special. It sold out EVERY time with the majority of sales done even before the special was offered (reserved, pre-sale).
Later on, cooks from nearby restos would ask "what is BBQed prime rib? We have more and more people asking for it." I'd smile and explain the method.
re: porker
Very nice....
Ideally, would you like to roast, cool and serve on the same day, or better to make a two day process.
re: fourunder
Actually it would be a 3 day process:
day 1 - carve ribs, tie, spice rub, fridge.
day 2 - come to room temp, sear, return to room temp, fridge
day 3 - come to room temp, cut strings, carve roast into portions, grill along with ribs, serve.
You could do it in two days - sear and grill the second day. I don't think it makes much of a difference, but I like to think the extra day ages the cooked exterior a bit. The bigger difference is time management; when doing this at home, I like to do as little as possible on the day-of and this frees up some time.
re: porker
thank for the details.....I hope to give it a try sometime.. It sounds like a winning recipe.
Never had a disaster with prime rib, and no we don't do low and slow. This years came out fabulous as usual. But I don't think we have ever had a disaster on the Big Green Egg.
This is timely for me. I'm doing a 4 kg or 8.8 lb prime rib on Thursday, and I've always done the 325 or even 350 route, but I'd like to try low and slow.
I'll admit first off to still being in a turkey stupor, and would prefer not wade through all the threads on the subject - my head is spinning enough. (or still!)
Having said that I'd really like to give this a go, so with a 225 oven, is there a per pound time?
When it comes out, it rests for a time and then goes back in at 500 for 8 - 12 minutes, so why does it rest for that long and go back in?
Is there a lot of drippings for gravy?
Internal temp of about 128 - 130?
Is there a tried and true formula for this?
I'm kind of nervous about doing this, as it's for a once a year family dinner, but also a bit excited too!
re: casey30
Read the following thread as it's pretty comprehensive with varying opinions and techniques.
Provide some more specific details ,e.g.,
Boneless or Rib Roast
The temperature you are seeking to serve....or varying degrees of doneness and fellow posters can make suggestions....or answer the queries you mention above.
Look at my post above porker's for the pictures and pick which roast you would like to achieve for your finished roast.
Cooked mine sous-vide then gave it a quick sear on the grill right before serving. It came out perfect and I will be using this method from now on.
Cooked a 1.3kg piece of meat (with bone) at high temp (450-ish) on the oven gril.
I left it maybe 10-15 minutes too long, it was still pink inside but I wanted it more red-ish.
The difficulty I have with that type of roasting, is that I might do it once, maybe twice a year and never remember how it went the last time
Anyway, the meat was good quality and was totally enjoyed, the drippings were enough to make a small pan-sauce (nothing added).
BUT The good thing is that the smoke detector did not start!!! (good idea to clean the oven couple of days before).
My first prime rib came out amazing. It was boneless, about 6.75 lb, a really good amount of marbling and very well tied and shaped. I cut slits in it and stuffed garlic in the slits, rubbed it with rosemary, fresh ground pepper and horseradish overnight. Let it come to room temp, rubbed a little salt, and threw it in 450 oven for 20 minutes- amazing sear/crust! cranked it down to 325 for about an hour and 40 minutes, let it rest for 25, and it was so tender we hardly needed a knife. Rare in the center, nothing was much more than medium rare. I was really nervous about overcooking it, but, now I would not hesitate to do it again!
I do an initial high temp 450 for 15 min then decrease temp to 325 for about 1 hour. did this for christmas eve on a 3 ribber and it was very good. Pink throughout, and a nice brown on the cap (my fave). one thing I did forget to do was to let it come to temp before putting into oven, for some reason I took it out of the fridge, seasoned and plopped it in. Could have been bad. but we got lucky
A decent (well marbled and at room temperature) standing rib roast with a respectable amount of fat should bask in a 325 degree oven until a 120-125 interior temperature is achieved. Let the 3+ rib roast rest for 20 minutes or so after the fact.
I'm sure "low and slow" works, but it's not the only route to a perfectly cooked rib roast. My small, 2-rib, 4.5 pound standing rib roast (bone attached) came out perfectly medium rare. My never-fail formula:
1. Take the roast out of the fridge about an hour before roasting.
2. Preheat the oven to 500 degrees.
3. Place the roast in a large, shallow roasting pan, fat side up. Sprinkle with flour, rubbing it into the fat lightly. Season with salt & pepper.
4. Roast at 500 degrees for EXACTLY 5 minutes per pound (4.5 pounds = 22.5 minutes).
5. Turn the oven off. Do not open the oven door! Leave the roast in the oven until leave-in thermometer reads desired temp. I take it out at 126 degrees for medium rare. This takes approximately two hours in total.
re: CindyJ
Thanks for sharing. Have you tried your method with a larger 4, 5, 6 or 7 Rib Roast?
re: fourunder
I haven't, but according to the original source of this recipe http://www.foodmaven.com/diary/000001... this method is supposed to work well for roasts with 2-4 ribs, or 4-12 pounds.
re: CindyJ
Thanks for the source...giving it a quick read though, it states that the center slices will be rare temperature....which is not in itself a bad thing.....just maybe not what someone is looking for in the highest yield of medium-rare cuts.
This year's Christmas Dinner was at my brother's house. He has not been convinced to use the low and slow approach for anything. He method this year was to roast at a temperature of 450*, then shut off the oven. He would not provide me with the details.....as I bust him every year for over-cooking the turkey and beef roasts. He made two First Cut Rib Roasts, one three bones, the other four bones. His results were more medium towards the ends and rare in the center. Resting the meat for 30 minutes, there was still more bleeding than with a lower temperature roast. ...however, it was still good and everyone enjoyed it.
re: fourunder
I'd think the center slices will be at whatever level of "doneness" you want, if your meat thermometer is properly placed. I like mine medium-rare, so I set my thermometer to notify me when the temp. reaches 126 degrees. The original recipe calls for removing the roast from the oven when the oven is lukewarm. That's a bit less precise than using a meat thermometer.
My close friend made a rib roast for the first time ever this Christmas. Although I have pretty extensive cooking experience in certain areas, I had never made a rib roast either and so we looked around for ideas together. We found and used this recipe from epicurious (below) where you chill/marinate the roast in a rosemary/thyme/bay rub for about 12 or 16 hours, then start the roast in a 450 oven for 20 minutes, and reduce the heat to 350 for another 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 hours. She served this to her family and said it was perfectly cooked, tender, delicious.
My most recent success.....
Here are the results of my most recent Prime Grade Prime Rib Roast...
* Pre-Cooked weight: 4 pounds / 2-Bones
* Sealed within a FoodSaver Bag for 26 days
* Air dried in the refrigerator for 2 additional days unseasoned
* Allowed to warm outside of the refrigerator for 4 hours
* Sea Salt and Fresh Cracked Black Pepper applied prior to placing in oven
* Seared prior to placing in the oven
* 200* Roasting Temperature
My normal preparations for Prime Rib Roast is initially roasting @ 450* for the first 15 minutes, then dropping down to 225* for the duration until reaching a target temperature of approximately 120*, followed by a 60 minutes resting period, then placed back into the oven for a warming phase of 20-30 minutes @ 250*, followed by a high heat blast for 10-12 minutes @ 500*.. Removed from oven, there is no second resting period.
Given the quality of the beef, and the small size of the roast, I decided to veer off my normal method and pan sear the roast first before placing in a pre-heated 450* oven for only 5 minutes , then dropping the oven temperature down to 200*.. I was shooting for a target temperature of 120* before pulling the roast out for the resting period and carryover cooking.
I was expecting the roast to take 3-3.5 hours to reach the target temperature of 120*, based on 50 minutes per pound…however the roast reached 120* in just over 2 hours time. Faced with a dilemma, i.e., a timing issue with the rest of dinner being prepared 3.5 hours later…I decided I did not want to pull the roast out of the oven and lose heat, so I decided to hold the roast in the oven at 140* for the 2 ¾ hours before I used the 30 minute warming phase @ 250* and 10 minute high heat blast @ 500*. During the first 30 minutes in the oven @ 140*, the carryover increase reached 125* (as expected) and stayed at that number for the first hour, then dropping 3 degrees each 45 minutes down to 119* before I began the warm up phase. During the 30 minutes in the warm up phase, the roast only increased another 2* total. The 10 minute blast increased the roast another 3* . At this point the digital thermometer registered 124*.
I removed the roast from the oven and covered it with a stainless steel bowl for only 5 minutes while I finished the side dishes. You can see the results of the first slice, or end cut is completely pink with only the outer crust showing any brown. The end result was meat on the high side of rare and low side of medium-rare doneness. PLEASE NOTE, on the carving board and on the plate, there is zero bleeding of any meat juices. The meat itself was very tender, without any hint of chew...but with pronounced concentration of beef and nutty flavor. I would definitely try this again as the results were excellent.
re: fourunder
Fourunder, why is your roast tied up? It looks like the bones are still attached, are they? If so, why tie?
re: Jerseygirl111
I love jerseygirls who pay attention to the details.....
The reason why I tied the roast is....in the first picture where the roast was removed from the refrigerator, you can see the dried outer layers of the roast and the stained fat from the liquid released from the meat while aging in the FoodSaver bag. After shaving the fat and dried meat, at the point where the eye and deckle meet over the bone. or where the french line would be....I got too close and there was a chance the meat between the deckle and eye could separate if the fat rendered away and could no longer hold the meat in place. Tying the roast kept that possibility from happening. As an unexpected and added benefit, the three indentations created by tying left three perfect guidelines to slice the roast into four equal one inch slices or portions.
Also, over the years when ordering large export ribs and boneless ribeyes for commercial kitchens.....the meat always came tied in string wraps to prevent the fat caps or deckles from separating while roasting. As a matter of habit, I always tie my home roasts as well to be safe.
re: fourunder
Good! Then I can ask another pesky question...if you are aging the meat in the foodsaver bag, it is sealed, no? Sealed=wet aged? Wouldn't you get better results dry aging, aka open to the cool blown air of the fridge fan? Or maybe not better, just different? Please enlighten me O'Master of the Meat!
re: Jerseygirl111
Yes, the bag is sealed and it is considered wet-aging.....this is probably the most common way meat is held in commercial kitchens. I have no degree in food science, so I cannot tell you exactly what is going on during the wet or dry age process....but as I understand it, in wet aging enzymes break down the meat without air exposure. With dry-aging, enzymes and bacteria work together to break down the meat. With wet aging, you do not trim off as much deteriorated meat and there is less shrinkage. so the yield is higher.
Given the choice of having a dry age or wet age steak.....dry age is definitely a better result and choice. While you can air dry a roast in your refrigerator for up to a week, to properly dry age at home you really need to dedicate a separate fridge and control the elements and temperature.. Here's a recent thread on the subject of dry-aging at home in a separate refrigerator
re: fourunder
" I have no degree in food science" - ditto, me neither, but a few comments from the peanut gallery....
dry aging not only breaks down the meat, fostering tenderness, but removes moisture (shrinkage not due to trim). This lowering of moisture apparently raises the concentration of flavor.
"to properly dry age at home you really need to dedicate a separate fridge" A dedicated, separate fridge will certainly give you more control, and likely better consistency. I'm all for this, but you *can* age meat longer that a week in your fridge. I regularly dry-age rib roasts up to 28 days in mine.
Your pictures look fantastic!
re: porker
Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate when I'm critiqued so I can lean from all.
: 0)
I realize you can dry-age in your regular fridge for as long as you want...but wouldn't you agree the repeated opening and closing of the door is not ideal? Also, most people are not willing to dedicate the space and odor from uncovered meat for extended periods or time...thus my point of view.
re: fourunder
Hi Fourunder. I have a 5 lb, 2 bone, Prime quality Prime rib I bought on the 15th to serve on Christamas day. I brought it home and immediately put it in a foodsaver bag and kept it in the fridge until just now. I removed it and gave it a quick rinse under cool water to remove the blood that had a slight bloom smell to it. I didn't have room in the fridge to put it on a rack, but put it on a steamer basket over a plate to catch any drippings. So, my questions are:
1. I was thinking of letting it airdry in the fridge until tomorrow and then do a dry brine (heavily salted) for the last 18 hours or so. Any comments on the dry brine?
2. I have tried to search all of your posts on cooking prime rib and it seems your way of cooking has changed over the years (or I am confused from reading too many of your excelent posts). I think your latest method is to slow cook it in a 220* oven until the internal temp reaches 118*, rest for an hour or two, reheat for 20 mins at 225*, and then finally brown at 500* for 5-8 mins. Do I have that right?
3. I prefer my meat medium rare, the wife prefers closer to medium, I can live with medium rare hinting at medium. Is 118* still the target temp?
Attached a couple photos of the roast on the steamer basket. I like the marbling...
re: THoey1963
Good evening TH...
First let me say that is one fine looking piece of meat. You have selected an excellent one...and resting on the steamer over a plate is perfect.
Sorry about the confusion on old threads, but I do try to experiment to see if there are any noticeable differences to make changes for better and more predictable results
With regards to your questions:
1. I was thinking of letting it airdry in the fridge until tomorrow and then do a dry brine (heavily salted) for the last 18 hours or so. Any comments on the dry brine?
2. I have tried to search all of your posts on cooking prime rib and it seems your way of cooking has changed over the years (or I am confused from reading too many of your excelent posts). I think your latest method is to slow cook it in a 220* oven until the internal temp reaches 118*, rest for an hour or two, reheat for 20 mins at 225*, and then finally brown at 500* for 5-8 mins. Do I have that right?
FOR YOUR SMALLER ROAST, BASED ON THE YOUR PREFERRED TEMP AND YOUR WIFE'S i THINK YOU SHOULD DO 122-124*. 118* WOULD KEEP YOU IN THE (rare) ZONE WHEN FINISHED.
3. I prefer my meat medium rare, the wife prefers closer to medium, I can live with medium rare hinting at medium. Is 118* still the target temp?
FOR YOUR SMALLER ROAST, BASED ON THE YOUR PREFERRED TEMP AND YOUR WIFE'S I THINK YOU SHOULD DO 122-124*. 118* WOULD PUT YOU IN THE (rare) ZONE WHEN FINISHED. 125+ BEGINS THE MEDIUM-RARE ZONE AND YOU CAN EXPECT ABOUT A 5-7 DEGREE INCREASE AT MOST @ 225
Attached a couple photos of the roast on the steamer basket. I like the marbling.
i WOULD ALSO SEAR THE ROAST ON THE STOVE ON MEDIUM HEAT, NOT HIGH TO CONTROL THE HEAT AND LIMIT THE OUTER GRAY RING IT PRODUCES...IT'S EASIER TO CONTROL THAN OVEN HEAT BROWNING...WHERE IT'S TOUGH TO KNOW HOW LONG THE OVEN WOULD STAY AT 450* BEFORE IT CAME DOWN TO 225* FOR CONSISTENT TEMPERATURE AND COOKING.
re: fourunder
Thanks Fourunder (BTW, do you have a real name besides Prime Rib God? You can call me Terry)...
I got home tonight and several cooking friends suggested I salt it tonight, so I did. And then I decided to check if you posted, which you did, but was too late to see what you said. I had read before to salt with half a TBS per pound, so I used a little less than three TBS for this 5 pounder. Photo attached.
Thanks again for all the tips. Will continue to attach photo's and comments as I go through the steps. Might help someone else next year...
re: THoey1963
Salting is a personal thing. You could be more aggressive, and most of the salt would come off during roasting anyway....Salt will not penetrate to the core, but it doe enhance the meat overall. The one concern you need to realize, not with your roast, but in general, is that if you over salt, it drips into the rendering s and fond....ultimately affecting any possible pan juices and or gravy you ten to make.
I salted a little more agressively than you....but I really just sprinkle and rub.....I don't measure. I do it by feel. there is no right or wrong.
I'm sure you will do great and everyone will enjoy the results.
re: fourunder
Hmmm... Might hit it again with some more salt and the pepper today. I also did not cut the strings off mine that the butcher put on it, so I didn't get any seasonings in between the ribs and the roast. Not worried about what drops in the pan as I won't be using the drippings.
Your roasts look great. I'll repost tomorrow with some after pics. Thanks for all your help! Merry Christmas and Happy Eating to you and yours!
re: THoey1963
Ok, back for my report and I am am in the middle. Not a disaster, but not a "perfect" success either. After my last post and your comments, I hit the roast with more salt and some pepper.
Cooking steps I took:
- Pulled my 5 lb roast out of the fridge at 10 am.
- At 10:30 preheated oven to 225
- Probe inserted and target temp set for 124. To set the probe, I measured the probe halfway down the side of the roast, marked it with my finger, and then pushed it in that far into the center of the roast. (The picture of the precooked roast shows it just barely inserted, before I meassured it)
- Roast in oven at 11:05
- At 2 pm, probe alarm hit 124 temp. Pulled roast, hit it with Thermopen, as I got closer to the bone, it wasn't cooked enough. Pushed stay in probe deeper and put it back into the oven.
- At 2:30 the deeper reading hit 124. Took roast out, put it on a platter with a bowl over top of it and put it in the microwave and shut the door.
- Watched the internal probe temp climb from 124 to 132 and then drop back to 119 by the end of the two hour rest.
- Warmed at 250 for about 30 mins as guests arrived and then did the 500* sear right as we were ready to eat.
I pulled the roast, put it on the cutting board, clipped the strings and removed the ribs. The area of the meat on top of the bones section and the bottom of the roast where it met the bones piece was still pretty red. I through the bones piece back into the now off but still hot oven and let it continue to cook.
As I started slicing the roast, I had a hard time cutting through the crust, then it went like butter through the middle of the roast, and then a little harder to cut through the bottom. As I am laying the slices over, I really liked the looks of the crust, the middle or eye was perfect medium to medium rare, but the bottom of the roast (where the bones were attached) was really rare.
I had two eaters (wife and a friend) that wanted more medium, so I gave the wife the heal cut and her friend the first slice in. They both asked for it a little more cooked, so I threw some Au Jus into a hot frying pan and heated the outside up for about 30 seconds total. Myself and another friend liked it the way it was. There was some blood on the cutting board, but not a lot.
So, we grab our sides and sit down to eat. First thing we notice is how salty the crust is. I guess I didn't need that second salting. It wasn't a problem for anyone else, but the wifes heal cut was uneatable. Cut her off another slice and did the pan sear again and she was ok.
This is only the second time I have done prime rib and it was better than the first time. The next time I get the urge, I will stick with the half tablespoon of salt per pound estimate (about 3 tablespoons for a 5 pount roast). I am thinking I will also try it without the ribs and rotate it during cooking. I would want the center to be the rarest, but done around the edges.
All in all, it was a good prime rib. I have about a pound plus of it left that is going to make great sandiches. I am thinking I will use some Au Jus and rinse / rub the remaining crust to get some of the external salt off, use our electric knife to cut it cold into thin slices, heat it quickly in some more Au Jus, and put it on some french bread.
Thanks for all the help. As with anything, I am sure it is a learning process and also a personal taste thing.
re: THoey1963
re: THoey1963
Thanks for that...and we think alike.
The original intent of this post two years ago was just to let others share their experiences so others could benefit. Regardless of which method everyone used, I pretty much thanked simply for participating and I asked a simple question..If they had a disaster, why not consider the low and slow method? You can under-cook easily, but it's very forgiving to over-cook your results.....The ones who gave my my trials and errors a chance have mostly been very positive...As I stated over the years on these thread...my Low & Slow Approach interest really started to develop from reading Cook's Illustrated...and the last few years from Kenji-Alt Lopez....I have never claimed this method to be mine and I find it silly that the professional writers claim the Best in their recipes.
What has happened though, is that only a few have shared their higher heat methods and have not really become involved to say why their prefer their methods or offered any advice(not that any advice was asked for)...which by the way I am not opposed to giving a try...In fact, I have always been intrigued by <Porker's> BBQ method...and had it not been for this thread, I never would have known about the possibility of it. I've often mentioned I wish I could learn and devote more time to BBQ...<woodburner> has done some wonderful things with brisket and pastrami that I would love to try.
With a due nod to <acgold7>, he found the perfect word to describe my comments and methods as *Refinement*, so I thank him for that. It seems this is the only topic I can opine about without getting spanked by the moderators... but then again, some others may change that....I have pretty thick skin, so I can take the criticism...but really, what's the point of being condescending on a anonymous board ridiculing someone's skills or lack of owning a kitchen gadget.....
re: fourunder
Now that the drama has left the post, I was wondering if Fourunder had any comments on my report above.
re: THoey1963
From the details you provided, it appears to me you did everything right. The issue where the meat is tied back onto the bones is common. The only way to get around that is if you cook them separately, or the bones in the air. Most people roast on the bones instead of using a metal rack. To lessen the redness, you need to elevate the roast higher to promote more air circulation....This can be achieved with the V-Rack you use for a Turkey, or to stand on the edge of the roast to point the bones to the sky.
The questions I have are:
* How did you sear the roast
* On the stove, or in the oven @ 450* for how long?
* At what temperature did you do the primary roasting, 225* or higher?
I ask, because you have a pretty distinct gray band on the roast.
As for the salting issue, it is certainly a personal preference and you have solved your own problem....next time, you could also rinse the roast and pat dry.
re: fourunder
Thanks for the quick response. The sear was a step I missed out on. I thought that was part of your earlier style of cooking and something that got removed in your later technique.
As for the primary roasting, I did it at 225* for roughly 3.5 hours. I roasted the meat using the bones as a rack in a glass lasagna pan. There was not much in the way of drippings, so I may try the v-rack over a cookie sheet next time.
I am wondering if next time I should cook it without the bones attached and maybe even roll it over about half way through the cook.
Yeah, the end cuts and outer area were almost inedible, so I will definitely lessen the salt and maybe do the rinse / dry prior to some black pepper and then into the oven.
re: THoey1963
While I prefer to have the bone, they do tend to be underdone when separated. I don't find that to be the case when still attached, I suspect due to the fact the bones heat up and can transfer the energy through the meat.
Boneless is certainly easier for a consistent temperature roast.
have a look at the pictures of my 2013 entries at the bottom of the page.. I show the roasting pan, grill grate and the bones separated partially from the meat and how it turned out....you can compare yours to mine to see if there were any differences.
as for the sear....small 2-3 bone....on the stove....4+, then the oven.
For the record, I do not mind the gray outer ring...as long as the meat is still tender....The sear on the stove will give you a thicker gray outer ring.
re: fourunder
Depending upon the total roasting time, I sometimes find we can do without the final sear, as oftimes the roast comes out nice and brown and crackly even without it, if it's been in long enough. If it does need a bit more browning and I'm paranoid about the gray ring -- I'm getting less fearful of it occurring as time goes by, but old habits die hard -- I can still hit it with the torch, which browns wonderfully without burning or cooking the meat at all.
re: acgold7
My last experienced bleeding from going a few minutes too long @ 500....so I can completely see reducing the time I normally do, or eliminate it completely.
re: fourunder
What IS the big deal about "bleeding"? Why does nobody like it?
re: skyy38
The implication is that bleeding is equivalent to "bleeding out of the meat" the juices in the meat that keep it moist are now on your plate and not in your mouth.
re: fldhkybnva
For me, "bleeding" indicates a roast that will survive for several more days past the original "bake date" ie- if you want a nice sandwich, all you do is toss a hunk of this in the microwave ( on "pizza" setting, if you have one, for ONE MINUTE only) and you STILL have a juicy sandwich!
I have done this with WHOLE turkeys and 7 days later, the breast meat was moist and NOT "jerky", if you take my meaning.....
re: skyy38
I can't explain it any better than <fldhkybnva> has.
Bleeding occurs because the meat is hot and the moisture within the meat fibers/muscle/flesh are moving within the outer seared meat surface.... and if you slice the meat too soon, the pressure of the hot moisture will push any moisture out wherever it can...it cannot do so in a sealed steak or roast, but once it's sliced, if not properly rested, the bleeding occurs.
re: fourunder
That's why I DO rest my meat, for half an hour and then ,dinner is served...
re: fourunder
This also goes back to what my mother said about homemade bread, once it came out of the oven..
She said "Just because the bread is OUT of the oven doesn't mean it STOPS baking." She was talking "carryover", before "carryover" was *cool*......
Most, if not ALL baking instructions, required a "clean toothpick" before you took the bread ( or other breadstuffs) out of the oven.
BUT, since bread continued to bake OUT OF THE OVEN, you would wind up with nice *moist* bread, at first, but, as the days wore on, the bread would increasingly become *drier*...
I didn't want DRY bread for myself- I wanted something that would outgrow that by DAYS......
I found the answer (and the secret ingredient) in my moms recipe book.
I also *stumbled* across a process, that would make this version of bread, *totally* MINE!
Wisdom , is sometimes born out of *ignorance*...
This is Kenji Alt's method, which I adhere to: http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/20... FWIW, Kenji went ot MIT, and does the "sciency" stuff about cooking.
re: The 1st and only KSyrahSyrah
I first tried Kenji's method during the holidays of 2010 and it is excellent....but I have found that if you rest for at least 60 minutes, place back into the oven for the warm up phase @ 250 for 30 minutes and finish with a high heat blast @ 500 for 10 minutes....the results are even better. I tested Kenji's method on two roasts. My modification to his methods have been tested on over another half dozen. People eating his original method and my modified opined the longer resting improved the meat greatly without any meat bleeding, unlike Kenji's which had slight bleeding.
Originally, Kenji's Perfect Prime Rib called for a higher roasting temperature and only 30 minutes resting. The link you referenced is modified from the recipe from a couple of years ago. It should be mentioned that he has since modified his recommendation to hold the meat for up to 90 minutes from 30 and dropped his recommendation to 150* for roasting. I surmise Kenji has a nice new modern oven at his disposal for his tests...but he also notes that not all ovens can maintain a temperature of 200 or lower....especially if you have an older home oven. They just are not as insulated as well as the modern technology..
Last, Kenji method refers to roasts up to 12 pounds......full roasts are larger and he does not offer any adjustments for that.
Why phrase it as holding back from trying a particular method? If you have a method that works, then use it! I'm a fan of this one:
Has worked perfectly several times now on 4-5 rib roasts.
re: Splendid Spatula
How would you know which method is better unless you try both first. The question was posed at the people who have had disasters, not successes. My contention is it is nearly impossible to over-cook meat with the low and slow approach.....thus limiting the possibility of a disaster. If you come to realize you have enjoyed your results for the better...isn't that enough reason to give it a try?
Just had a huge success following your instructions, fourunder -- thank you! Two standing rib roasts: one 7.5, one 6.5 (three ribs each) for ~40 people as part of a sit-down meal. Brought them up to room temp, rubbed them down with ample salt and ground fresh pepper, and then in at 225* with a temp probe. Based on the numbers I had seen here, I was fully expecting 3.5 to 4.5 hours (or more) to hit fourunder's 118*, but to my shock, it as at 118* after a mere 3 hours! By the time I pulled it, that site was at 121*, with readings ranging up to 129*. I wrapped both roasts in tin foil (triply wrapped) and -- per fourunder's loving instructions -- moved them away from all drafts and covered them with a blanket. This was throwing off my plan a bit as it was 5p when this happened, but we did not intend to be eating beef until 8:30p. After some frantic reading here, I inferred (correctly, I guess?) that a longer rest period would do no harm -- so the two roasts rested for nearly 2.5 hours (on top of it all, dinner was running late). At the point that they went back in, an instant read was giving me 129*, which matches roughly what I expected the carry-over to be given that the temp was ~124* when I initially pulled it. Then it was 250* for 30 minutes and the 500* blast for another 8 or so. Interestingly, during the entire warm-up and blast, the probe never budged about 129* -- pretty clear that the center is not being warmed by that process! Anyway, pulled the roasts out with some apprehension that they would be either too rare or otherwise too cool -- but the beef was terrific. Biggest problem (such as it was) was that the beef had to wait on the potatoes and therefore was a tad cooler on the plate than I might have liked (we couldn't warm the plates, which would have made a difference there). Many, many people were saying that it was the best beef that they had ever had -- and I think that that might be true of me as well. I was terrified of screwing up dinner for 40 people, but thanks to fourunder's clear instructions and patient clarifications, it was a huge hit! Thank you, everyone -- and fourunder especially!
re: bcantrill
Very glad to hear your success and thank you for sharing your thorough details....
I'm sure now, you have realized this method is very forgiving and in reality, quite easy if you have patience. You are actually the first person who has commented that they have taken the extra step of covering their roast with a blanket/towel, which I feel is very beneficial and necessary for the home cook who does not have access to the equipment a commercial kitchen has....which is a holding oven. In the future, if your roasts finish earlier than expected, you can drop the heat down to 140* and open the door and release the heat for 10 minutes, then close the oven door and hold easily for two hours(or longer). Essentially, this is what a commercial holding oven does. If you need the oven for sides, then repeat your method of wrapping with foil and insulating with the blanket.
With regards to target temperatures, I have found that at times the roast reaches the target sooner than expected like yours....but I never fret as long as I catch it by the 122-125* range, especially if the roast is 3+ ribs. . My observation is also that reaching a slightly higher temperature will cook the meat more evenly right up to the bone....but personally, I like the little bit of rareness I find once in a while and the reason why I pull at 118....In the end, it's all good....(See my post above on Jan.19th, which shows what I describe about the rare meat by the bone)
About warming plates....if the oven cannot be utilized for whatever reasons....I use a few other methods when preparing a meal:
1. Place plates directly onto a fry pan on low flame. If you have a large cover or stainless steel bowl, you can trap the heat for quicker results. This won't work for 40 plates, but does for 4 plates uncovered or 6-8 plates if you rotate them a bit.
2. You can use a any large roasting pan with cover for the above method.
3. Place plates directly over any pot with vegetables or potatoes, in place of the pot lid. This is the method I use most while preparing dinner at home. Please note that the bottom plate will have moisture on the underside, so be sure to wipe it dry before serving.
4. Give plates a 20-30 zap in the microwave will take the chill out as well.
Finally, based on your details...on similar size roasts, in the future you could increase the minutes during the blast phase. It won't affect the center, but will only increase the gray outer ring in color slightly.
Thanks again for sharing.
re: fourunder
Thanks to fourunder, the even that is the grandparent here was so successful that two years later, we decided to repeat it -- but this time with 73 people (!) and with the decision that the beef was so terrific (again, thanks to fourunder) that we should have _more_ beef per person (!!). So this is how I found myself yesterday with two monster standing rib roasts: 7-rib roasts at 18 pounds a piece. As others have observed, the challenge with this much beef is that it's very hard to forecast how long it will take under low-and-slow -- and given the shape of the cuts (19 inches long, ~10 inches wide and ~8 inches tall), I had a hunch that it would be quicker than 20 minutes per 18 pounds (thanks again, fourunder, for noting the importance of shape in cooking time when the roasts get large). And from my last experience (see above), and from fourunder's findings over the last few years, and from TomMN's experience (thanks, Tom!), I knew that a longer rest wasn't something to be too concerned about -- so I decided to err on the side of caution and get the beef in at 11a for an 8:45p scheduled plating.
The first hiccup was the oven: as it turns out, it wasn't quite as deep as I had anticipated and I was unable to put the roasts side-by-side. Fortunately, it was sufficiently wide that I was able to put the roasts on separate racks, one above the other with the roasts cross-wise. (That is, if you were counting the ribs, you'd count from left to right of the oven, not from front to back.) I didn't have to resort to the creativity of Katie808 (though her experience was definitely helpful, as she had an identical amount of beef).
I calibrated the oven, and it seemed to be running a tad hot, so I set it to 200* (instead of 225* that I had two years prior). I also felt that I could set to 200* and, if things were too slow after a few hours, bump it to 225*. The one problem was that, based on the shape of my temperature probe and the clearance between the bottom rack and the top rack, I couldn't quite fit the curve of the probe in the necessary space. I did the best I could by stringing the probe up through the rack above it (a mistake -- read on). With the bottom roast in place with an awkward temp probe, I put the second roast in on the rack above it (where the probe had just enough clearance) and got things going.
Within a few minutes, it was clear that something was wrong with the bottom roast: it was getting way too hot, way too quickly. Both roasts went in at roughly the same temp (57* for the bottom roast, 54* for the top roast), but after 30 minutes, while the top roast was exactly where I would expect (59*), the bottom roast was showing 88*. After a little bit of freaking out that the oven might be highly asymmetric, I looked more closely at the bottom probe, and it was clear that parts of the probe sheaving were coming into contact with the rack itself. I opened the oven, pulled the probe and re-placed it to avoid the contact, but the temp was still too high. At this point, I got a second instant read in the bottom roast, but I couldn't get it in nearly as deep as it needed to be -- the reading was too high, but I wasn't convinced it was meaningful. I was obviously trying not to fiddle around too much -- I didn't want to keep opening and closing the oven door -- but on the other hand, if the readings on the bottom roast were correct, I potentially had a serious issue on my hands. Finally, just before 1p -- two anxious hours after the roasts went in -- I pulled the probe entirely, and put it in at an entirely different angle such that it was deep in the roast, but could make it under the clearance of the rack above it. The reading was there 79* (when the top roast was 88*) and I breathed a huge sigh of relief. At that point, things went smoothly. I could see that the top roast was a bit ahead of the bottom roast (which is what I would expect, with heat rising and all). Just because I know that I'm not the only beef nerd around here, a graph of the temps over is attached -- including the bad early readings.
My anxieties then shifted to the fact that the roasts (true to my fears) would be at 120* (my target temp) at ~3p and have a long, long rest before their 8:45p plating. Heightening my anxiety was that resting the roasts in the oven was a non-option: others were going to need the oven for sides and starters (it's a four course meal), and the oven didn't go down as low as 140* regardless. So, and again thanks to fourunder and the advice that I used so effectively two years ago, I bundled the crap out of the roasts: three coats of tin foil, and several heavy blankets tightly wrapped. Thanks to some of the kids of the host house of the party (who, it must be said, absolutely loved wrapping the roast), I found the warmest spot of the house: the floor of one of their closets.
And now we get to the only thing that I wish I had done differently: because one of the roasts was not exactly level, juice accumulated and ultimately got through the aluminum foil in the absurdly long rest. This meant the blankets ended up with some roast beef juice on them -- and I would recommend that anyone who is going to be resting for more than two hours go to absolute absurdity on the tin foil and consider five or more layers. Certainly, it doesn't hurt...
At 8:15p -- five hours after the roasts had started resting -- the oven was available for my final heatup (250*) and blast (500*) the roasts were both reading 118*. I was a little panicky, but assured myself that I had had the 5-10* of carry-over, and that temps had probably started to fall in hours 3 and 4 of the rest. Once the blast was over, we took out one of the roasts, cut it down the middle, and it was immediately clear that -- once again -- fourunder had nailed it: it looked and tasted absolutely beautiful. Once again, many were full of praise for the beef -- with again several saying that it ranked among the best beef they had ever had.
So, moral of the story is that you can indeed rest the beef for a long, long time -- and if you are in for a long rest, count on using a ton of aluminium foil and find as many blankets as you can. I also think I wouldn't allow _quite_ as much time as I did (I was planning for a worst case of a 7 hour roast time) -- if your roast is simply many ribs but otherwise normally wide and high, I don't think cooking time is affected _that_ much; it probably adds a constant (e.g., one hour) rather than a multiplier.
And, of course, thank you fourunder and all of the other participants on this thread! fourunder, you are the patron saint for slow-and-low standing rib roast!
re: bcantrill
WOW.... thanks for that comprehensive play by play report. I love the fact you were able to adapt to conditions and troubleshoot your way through with military precision. Kudos to you and your efforts...it's very well deserved, but I know the satisfaction is knowing you were able to pull this off and forever now....you are now a master of beef.....and all your friends and family know it.
Very happy for your success...and thanks for sharing.
PS...only one suggestion. Get some sturdy sheet pans...about 5 bucks a piece and should there be a next time, rotate the roasts by changing rack levels, and spinning left to right at appropriate intervals.
re: bcantrill
What a great report! As four says, sheet pans are great but disposable foil "hotel pans" or "steam table pans" are even better, as they are deeper and cheaper and will catch all that juice should the need arise. Full Size Deep are 20 3/4"L x 12 13/16"W x 3 3/8"D so should fit even a full standing rib. You then wrap these in foil, then beach towels, then into an insulated heavy plastic ice chest that will fit your hotel pans for the resting period, as the BBQ experts use.
Changing the rack levels is a must as well as rotating the roasts when you do so.
But looks like you nailed it, and congrats!
re: acgold7
For the record....the sheet pans are for under the disposable pans.....so you can handle the weight of the roasts....beef or turkeys.
re: fourunder
Yes, good idea. We usually use two or three foil pans so they won't buckle or spill.
re: acgold7
i would have thought you used these babies....
re: fourunder
Considering your background in the 'biz,' I bet you have some good stuff :)
re: c oliver
let's just say I never saw the need for Kyocera knives or All-Clad cookware....I like the commercial stuff to cook with, as I can bang them around and they are lighter..... and my favorite knives are a serrated wooden handle bread knife and a Dexter Cleaver.
re: fourunder
I have one of those "serrated wooden handle bread" knives of my father's that I also love. And you're talking Dexter as in warm and fuzzy serial killer, right? :)
re: fourunder
For less-formal buffet catering gigs and BBQs we use the disposable aluminum stuff most of the time, but for in-house it's all new stainless stuff, as we just outfitted the place for the first time just a little over a year ago. We inherited some old stuff but most of it was so ratty we donated it and replaced it.
We use Dexter knives too. My kids got a kick out of that. Really good value. I love people who spend $200 of a chef's knife. Not in a commercial kitchen, you don't.
Some of the pictures look a little rare for some of my guest, what temp would you recommend for just a bit more medium/medium rare.
Or, if need be I may finish some more done ones one the stove in jus.
Great site amd excellent info, the few I have cooked were started at 450 for a hour, then shut the oven off for a while. I don't like the mystery and want more control/info as to how the rib is doing.
I also have a remote prob to keep me informed.
re: Quig7557
Technically, there is a range of 10 degrees for each temperature on the temperature scale chart...or in other words, you can be on the low side or the high side of the scale to still be considered in the proper temperature range....
With the low and slow approach, you will not get much carryover heating....usually about 5-7 degrees at most. I normally pull @ 122-125*...with the carryover, it gets to about 130ish. Typically, the range for Medium-Rare is 125-135...or 130-140*, depending on which chart you subscribe to. The median is 130ish using bot charts. I suspect you prefer the high end of the scale for Medium-Rare or possibly, the low range for Medium doneness.......therefore, I would suggest you simply bring the roast to 128-132* degrees. Then you can begin the holding period either inside or outside the oven.....my preference is to hold the oven on the lowest warm setting of 140*
For the record, I do not like the idea of finishing a perfectly roasted piece of meat in jus....but I do realize some people cannot eat meat other than medium-well or well done....So in your case, my answer is to roast a little to the higher end of Medium-Rare, or low end of Medium, just to be clear.....but in the end, it's a better alternative than using the microwave..
re: fourunder
Doesn't the amount of carryover depend on the size of the roast? If you are talking about a lil' ol' 4-7 pounder, the amount will be 5-7 degrees.
But what if we're talking about a "Battle Star:Galactica" hunk of meat, like an 18 pounder? Doesn't the sheer *mass* of that have something to do with a greater carryover range?
re: skyy38
My experience @ 225*....is the roast, regardless of size, rarely goes above 5*.....@ 200*, it 's usually about 3*. At 250*, you can expect about 10+.... this is in my home gas oven, which is often checked with an oven thermometer to ensure it's accuracy for the temperature I choose for roasting any particular meat.
Just to be clear, rather than using *size*, but rater *actual weight* is important in determining expected finishing time, however, the weight is not as important as the shape...To give you an example....if you are roasting a Loin of pork, which can be 3 pounds or 9 pounds, the weight is not important, as the shape of the roast is similar, only the length is longer. The overall thickness of the roast is the same, so you could expect the roast to be finished in 90-120 minutes using (30 minutes/lb as a reference)...not 4.5. The longer and larger mass would not have any impact on the carryover....only time spent in the oven to allow the meat absorb the greater energy applied....When you reach your target temperature, and pull the roast or reduce the thermostat...effectively the roast stops cooking and there is no further heat being absorbed.
The variables to affect carryover can be any of the following. (but not limited to ):
*What your actual target temperature is, i.e. 118, or 130+. At 118, there is not as much build-up as 130+, where with the latter, you may get 7+.
* Size & shape of the roast, i.e., flat as opposed to a round shape, Carryover will be greater in a flatter roast.
* Accuracy of oven thermostat
* position of the roast, or rack level
* amount of build-up in oven...which does not disperse heat evenly.
* Bone-in or Boneless
re: Quig7557
In your case then, I would push the temperature up to 300 degrees, @ 15 minutes per pound. This will expedite things nicely without turning your Prime Rib into expensive dog food.
I'd like to roast a prime rib roast using the high oven (500-550) then turn off and leave door closed for 2-hour method.
Even if I use the (new convection) oven on thermal cooking, when I turn it off, the fan will start and it will cool the oven. My old oven didn't do this.
My question is, can I try starting at 550, then finish at the oven's lowest temp?
re: monavano
There are a few variables that must be considered before a true proper answer could be suggested or recommended.....namely, the size of your roast, the temperature, or variety of temperatures that you are choosing for the finished results and the length of time you have determined to start your roast off at the high heat temperature.
With that said, if you are looking to roast in a shorter time frame, I like the idea of maintaining and controlling a constant temperature throughout the cooking process after your intial high heat step. I would not trust the main event of the even to the accident of someone opening the oven door and letting the oven to cool down....so I would agree with the thought to set the thermostat at a lower temperature.....somewhere between 140-200* to finish the roast.
re: fourunder
First of all, fourunder, thank you for all the great advice you have given here. It is greatly appreciated. I used your low and slow method on a boneless 6.5lb rib roast and the results were phenomenal.
I would like to ask you a question, if I could: I bought a 20lb standing rib roast from Costco which I'll be cooking Christmas Eve. I plan on placing the room-temperature roast into a 225 oven. (Haven't decided if I will pull at 118 or at 122-125 as you mentioned above).
Although I'll be using the temperature to determine when to pull the roast, how long do you think it will take to cook this beast? I've read different "rules of thumb" to estimate this, but many times these rules that I have read are for roasts cooked with different methods (high heat blast at first, etc.).
Thanks for the help.
re: TomMN
First, thank you for the kind words and it is greatly appreciated. It's also nice to hear you have achieved satisfactory results and have enjoyed my thoughts for low and slow roasting.
Many will cite the importance of a digital temperature probe to monitor the results, but I would say more importantly is the calibration of your oven with an actual oven thermometer. I will assume since your past experience has been positive, the accuracy of your oven is not a concern. While weight is also a factor, there comes a point where it will not be the determining factor in calculating the duration of roasting time. The greatest concern for me with your particular query has to do with the shape of the roast and the size of the bones. A larger, thicker eye and deckle fat cap will take longer to roast ...than a thinner one, e.g., 6 inches as opposed to 4.5 inches in the center mass of the roast.
My past experience leans more to 25-30 minutes per pound in my 40 year old home oven. When cooking in my brother's Viking Stove, the time could be dropped to 20-25 minute per pound, especially if the convection feature is utilized.
With that said, I think you should start checking around the 3.5-4.0 hour mark to see how the roast is progressing. You can expect a 5 degree increase every hour at that point. In the past, I've roasted smaller full 7 - Rib Roasts in as little as 4.0 hours to hit the 120is mark....but as long as 7 hours to do so as well. I suspect your roast will take at least 4.0-5.0 hours at minimum to hit your mark. With a two hour rest, you should give yourself at minimum an 8 hour window for roasting time and holding period. Should your roast hit it's mark sooner, don't worry....it's not a problem and you can hold your roast easily for up to 4 hours at 140* on the lowest warm setting. If for some reason your roast is lagging in upward temperature movement, you can increase to 250-275* without worry of any negative effects to the tenderness of the meat. I would suggest this measure only during the last hour of expected roasting time.
Whenever I roasted a Full 7-Rib ...I always took the roast out of refrigeration the night before I retired for the evening to come closer to room temperature, or around 60*
Below are some pictures of two roasts I purchased for Christmas Day 2012...One a Four Rib, 10.5 pounder with a larger eye and bigger bones. The other is a Three Rib, 7.25 pounder with a smaller eye ....I have included the pictures so you could understand exactly what I mean for variables concerning Thicker, larger bones...as opposed to Thinner, smaller bones.....and expected cooking time for Prime Rib Roasts.
re: fourunder
Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with me and everyone here - such an incredible gift to us all and an incredible resource for all us wanna- be cooks.
I'm using a newer Wolf oven that has convection capabilities although I don't think I'll use convection as I'm not in a big hurry.
I'm going to try to post a picture of each end. If the pictures work out: would you consider this a thicker or thinner roast?
Note: for some reason, I'm having trouble posting the pictures from this iPad. Working on it...
re: fourunder
See if this works
re: fourunder
I'm a poster child for electronic ineptitude ... see if this works better.
re: TomMN
That's a good looking piece of beef you have selected. I would consider that flatter, rather than rounder myself. I would still suggest you check your roast around the 3.5 hour mark, but I suspect your roast will take closer to 4 hours and up to 5.0 hours depending on which end of the scale you ultimately decide on at 225*. Place the thermometer between ribs 9-10, and if you do not like to see blood near the bone, the probe closer to the bone, rather than to the center of the eye, as it takes a little longer to cook the meat near the bone. i would figure around a total roasting and holing period to be 7-8 hours minimum.....again, if it hits temperature sooner, the longer resting period is a good thing in my views.
Your newer oven should be more efficient with better insulation, so I would expect 20-25 minutes per pound as a starting point. You will see some advice like from seriouseats.com that will say the roast will finish at 3 hours, but I find that his idea of Rare and Medium-Rare tend to be on the low side for most tastes.
re: fourunder
I thought I'd share my results in the hope that it might help others. Very apt that this thread is called "disasters and success" because I thought I was heading for both ends of the scale.
As a recent disciple of prime-rib guru Fourunder, my plan was to follow his teachings religiously.
My 20 lb standing rib roast came out of the refrigerator and on to the counter when I went to bed late on the 23rd. Based on my conversation with the guru here, I was planning on an 8 hour total preparation time.
I had cut the bones off of the roast, seasoned with salt and pepper, and then tied them back on. Then seasoned the roast with only Kosher salt and cracked black pepper (that I had fun cracking manually - to some degree, but not 100% success).
The internal temperature probe read 53° when I popped the roast into the oven that had been pre-heated to 450°
20 minutes later I turned the temperature down to 225° (Internal temp had risen 1 degree to 54°.
This is when things took a turn toward ... more interesting.
2 hours passed and my internal temp was reading 92°. This seemed much too high for me. I panicked. Just a little.
I inserted a second temperature probe to see if I was getting a good reading. (I was) I also put an ambient temperature probe in the oven to make sure the oven was performing as desired. (It was).
With two probes now inserted and one more in the oven, I turned the temperature down to 200° for the roast that was starting to look more like an CICU patient.
After 3 hours and 26 minutes, both my probes read 123°. Even though this was HOURS before dinner, the words of our Guru rang in my head and out of the oven came the roast. I wrapped tightly in foil and then wrapped in a blanket and put it on the counter.
In the 13 minutes it took me to wrap the roast, the temp. rose to 126-128° (Two probes).
20 minutes of rest later the temp was at 129-132°
1 hour of rest later the temp was at 131-134°
1.5 hours later the temp was 131-134°
THREE HOURS later, the temp was 130-132°
Dinner was approaching and it was time for a 20-minute warm up at 250°.
I took that roast out and tented it with foil while the oven warmed to 450°, then it was back in for 15 minutes.
After it came out, due to issues beyond my control (involving potatoes, etc.) we tented for another half hour before carving.
All-in-all, we had cooked for 3:26 and between resting/warming/searing we had rested for a total of 4:09.
The results? Uniform pink color throughout the roast. A little bleeding, but tender, tender, tender delicious prime rib.
I'll try to post the photographic evidence below.
Fourunder, you're the master! I only hope your roasts today turn out as good as mine last night - but of course they will!
My big extended family raved about the beef and thanked me, but they were really thanking you!
I can't see myself using any other method for rib roasts ever again.
re: TomMN
Wow....this is great news to hear and thanks for the very detailed and informative post, especially for noting the distractions during preparations and noting that you had an unanticipated and extended resting period to deal with, which ultimately had no negative effects on your final results.......it seems the student has passed the Master, grasshopper! Your efforts were rewarded and the pictures look fantastic.
The kind words are much appreciated ....but it's me who should thank you for placing the trust and confidence in my comments to prepare your Holiday meal for your family and friends....I am truly humbled and honored.
Thanks for sharing.
Happy Holidays and no more well done beef....only beef done well!
Many years ago (20?) before I was too adept in the kitchen but already had an interest in cooking, my father committed a heinous act on a prime rib roast for our Christmas dinner. I was not paying too much attention to what was happening with the meal that day. My mother cooked everything except for the beef which my father did on the grill, just as he usually did whether it was turkey, ham, or goose. This was the first time in a long time that he sprung for the expensive prime rib. Anyway, he took it off the grill when the thermometer said 140. He thought that meant it was going to be rare and he was worried about my SIL, who liked her meat well-done. She certainly got her wish.
re: John E.
The not so good ...old days. Thankfully the temperature charts have been adjusted over the years to reflect lower ranges for cooked meat specifications...
Thanks for sharing.
This is a great discussion, I am a little overwhelmed by all the information. I am going to try the low & slow method Christmas Day on a 12.25# boneless Costco Prime Rib.
We like it rare, so I am thinking to take it out between 110-115F, but can you help me figure out the best way- 150-200-225-250F and then how long to plan for the actual cooking time. I will try for the 1 hour rest and do the sides then. I would like to avoid the bloody mess you get sometimes so am pleased to hear about the 1 hour rest.
I am thinking it makes sense to do the final 6-10 minute blast. If I am interpreting everything I have read, it sounds like the roast should stay warm enough if insulated not to need to be reheated and should not over cook?
I have a convection oven, but I am thinking there is no need to speed things up with that given the focus on low & slow.
re: busymumsy
Although most of the information goes into some detail...the process is actually very easy.
* You remove the roast from refrigeration
* Your brown the roast in the oven for 15-20 minutes
* You reduce the oven temperature to your preferred choice
* You wait until it hits your target temperature
^ You shut the oven off and hold the roast inside or outside the oven...whichever works best for you for 60-120 minutes. If it is outside the oven, then make sure you cover it tightly with foil, not just tented. If you finish your sides early, put the roast in the oven at 200-225 to keep warm until the high heat blast.
* You give it a high heat blast for 8-10 minutes @ 450*
* No second rest is necessary or needed. You can slice immediately.
Here are two threads that will guide you further
Depending on how much time you have available to roast, i suggest 200-225*....3.0-4.0 hours roasting time and holding time of one hour. Since you are shooting for Rare temperature, I do not think bleeding will be as much of a concern as a roast cooked to a higher temperature.....however, I still believe most will enjoy A Rare roast cooked to the higher end of the Rare Meat Temperature Scale.....so I would recommend roasting to 115*, expecting the carryover effect to rise an additional 5* to bring the final temperature to 120*. The high heat blast will not cook up the roast....only bring it up to a more pleasant serving temperature, i.e., warm as opposed to cool.
For this year's Christmas Day Roast, I plan on using 200-210* in my brother's Viking Stove, which does have the convection feature, but I do not plan on using it other than the last hour of expected roasting time...or as dictated by the Digital Probe Thermometer. I also plan on holding for 2 hours.
With regards to roasting at under 200*...I would only do so if you have done so in the past and trust that your oven can maintain a constant temperature.....In general, I would not trust a gas oven, but I would have no problems with an electric oven, as they can maintain a low temperature without fear of a flame out.
[quote] * Your brown the roast in the oven for 15-20 minutes
* You reduce the oven temperature to your preferred choice
* You wait until it hits your target temperature
^ You shut the oven off and hold the roast inside or outside the oven...whichever works best for you for 60-120 minutes. If it is outside the oven, then make sure you cover it tightly with foil, not just tented. If you finish your sides early, put the roast in the oven at 200-225 to keep warm until the high heat blast.
* You give it a high heat blast for 8-10 minutes @ 450*[/quote}
Thanks for a quick answer!
So, you are saying you both hit it with high heat at the beginning and also at the end?
re: busymumsy
The short answer is *Yes*, that's correct, brown, or sear first....then again after the holding/resting period. I neglected to include....
* Preheat your oven for 15 minutes @ 450*
In the past, I never used to brown in the beginning for a large roast, but I always did so with a small roast on the stove top. I have since changed based on a couple of reasons. First, without browning, the outer skin resulted in a *Jerky* like texture that was not anticipated or enjoyed.. By browning or searing in the beginning, it corrected that issue. Second, there used to be a Chowhound member here, whose opinion I valued and respected. He informed me the The National Beef Council recommended that the initial browning or searing phase was important to kill off any bacteria on the surface of the roast.....hence I now always follow that advice....and pass that detail onto others.
I just want to share my first low and low experience, with great appreciation for all those who contributed to this thread and convinced me to give it a try. We literally just finished putting the leftovers away!
DH asked for a rib roast, so I got a 2.1kg, 2 bone roast (it's just us and the Chowpup, who isn't a huge meat-eater yet.)
I am using a convection oven that I am still getting used to.
What I did:
Pulled the roast from the fridge for a 2 hr room temp warm-up.
Did a simple rub of kosher salt, cracked black pepper, a little dried rosemary and just enough olive oil to hold it together.
Preheated oven to 100C/212F (with fan).
Got distracted by Chowpup and forgot about initial high-heat blast.
Roast went in on a shallow rimmed baking sheet.
I don't have a probe thermometer, so I kept a close eye on it with my digital instant.
At 2hr 50 min, internal temp was 121 - I pulled the roast at this point, wrapped it in foil and covered it with a couple dish towels.
Roast got close to an hour rest while the oven temp came up and the potatoes cooked.
Uncovered roast and popped it back in to the oven at 220C with fan (with the Yorkshires) for 15 min, final internal temp 131.
I am now a convert to low and slow!! This was by far the most tender rib roast I've ever done. I did experience more loss of juices with slicing than I expected, but it was still moist. With the exception of the outer edges, the entire roast was a gorgeously uniform medium rare, leaning towards medium.
What I want to try: Not using the convection, or lowering the temp even more when using the convection setting. Need to remember the initial high-heat blast. Need to invest in a probe thermometer. Will pull at a lower temp next time before resting. Will probably not do such a long, high-heat blast after the rest. (We were not bothered by getting a crust or a browned exterior. I'd sacrifice those for a more-rare result.) And lastly, I want to try this with a bigger cut, when I have more people who will enjoy it. (I am currently in the UK, and most of the people we know won't eat beef if it's still pink. So sad.)
Again, thanks to everyone for posting your exeriences, mostly fourunder. I couldn't (and wouldn't) have tried it without you.
re: tacosandbeer
Nice job and thanks for the kind words.
Congratulations on what I would deem as an exceptional result for a first time attempt....Would you agree that it was actually a pretty easy process in the end and next time there is no need, or worries to be intimidated with the low and slow method? BTW...you can also do this with lamb, pork and turkey as well.....but especially with other cheaper and inexpensive beef cuts.
Points to note...
* for a small roast like yours, I find searing on the stove is easier
* Convection feature is not necessary, and it will cook the roast faster..... the concept of low and slow is not to rush the roast in any way to give it time to mimic the dry aging process and naturally tenderize the beef with it's own enzymes over a longer period of time.
* I suspect the 15 minutes high heat blast at the end was the culprit for the excessive bleeding you experienced. The final step of the high heat blast is not to heat the meat to cook, only to warm it up to a more pleasant serving temperature if the meat has cooled. Bringing the roast to a higher temperature forces the juices out of the meat. To correct, or eliminate that concern for your next roast, a longer resting period if possible and a shorter high heat blast of only five minutes for smaller roasts like yours.....Larger roasts you can increase the minutes according to relation to size ....or in other words, a couple of more minutes for each additional bone.
Finally, have a look at the following thread where I did a comparison experiment with Cross Rib/Shoulder Roasts and Chuck Roasts......roasted to Medium-Rare with the results in pictures. You can practice on them and use your gained experience on your next Holiday Roast.
re: fourunder
Thanks so much for the troubleshooting. I am new to convection (and not loving it) and i suspected it was the issue.
I do not have a strong enough exhaust fan to make stove-top searing worth it - DH wonders what you'd think of a quick few min on a very hot gas grill?
As for your first question - we both agreed after dinner, over a glass of really nice wine, that although the start-to-finish process was lengthy, it's almost completely hands-off, stress-free and well worth it. We are never going back to the hot side!! Thanks!!
BTW - I am in charge of the 5.8kg turkey crown for dinner tomorrow, and it's getting done nice and low now! Thanks!
re: tacosandbeer
DH wonders what you'd think of a quick few min on a very hot gas grill?
You can sear at both the beginning and end for this step on your outdoor gas grill.
As for the turkey.....my conversions may be a tad off, but for 12-14 pounds, or approximately 6KG, I find 225 -275*F is best and I find my self roasting at 275*F/135*C most of the time for time and convenience. Larger than 6KG, and the lower 225/107 is preferred.
For Brown Skin, browning in the beginning and end is also recommended. If after you have turkey roasted low and slow you do not find the white meat is superior for moisture and tenderness...I would be totally shocked.
re: fourunder
Thanks for that, I will let you know how it goes! Have a wonderful day tomorrow, rejoincing in the knowledge that people all over the world are eating better because of your efforts!!
re: tacosandbeer
Thanks for the well wishes......tomorrow is Prime Rib Roast....but in a few hours I'm off to my best bud's house for his family's traditional Christmas Eve *Feast of the Seven Fishes* dinner.
OK, so here is the situation, I have a 17.6 pound - 6 bone roast, it is at 38 degrees and on the counter (I know I should have taken it out earlier, but the was a long night...). It is 9am, and I want to serve at 6pm. I want to cook low and slow, followed by the resting/500degree browning, but do I still have time to cook at 200 degrees?
re: Deadeye
You do not mention the target temperature you are shooting for, but It's approaching noon and I'm sorry I did not see this sooner....however if the roast is not already in the oven by now, get it in there immediately and you should be fine. Just to be safe, I would recommend you consider roasting at the higher temperature of 225*. Given the option of choosing between 200* and a one hour rest....or 225*, finishing sooner and a two hour rest....I would prefer and choose the latter, as I believe the longer resting period is crucial to the best final results of tender and moist beef, with minimal bleeding.
If you subscribe to the seriouseats.com cooking method, he believes there is not any difference in cooking time for a three rib roast or a six rib roast, and can finish in a little over 3 hours @ 200*....but My experience tells me the larger roasts take a little longer. I also believe he chooses the lower end of the temperature scale charts for his findings, but I find an additional 4-5 degrees is generally more preferred by the guests eating dinner.....i.e., his Medium-Rare is more like the high side of Rare. I enjoy meat as he represents, but when I first tried his recommendations back from 2010, all the family and friends thought it was a tad undercooked.
Without knowing further details of your roast or kitchen and considering variables that might exist...I suspect the roast would take about 4-5 hours to hit your target temperature before beginning the holdover phase. I would recommend you check at 3.5 hours to see how the roast is progressing. At this point, you can expect a minimum of 5* increase per hour to give you an idea of how much longer the roast will take to finish.
Sorry about not having enough details, I did get it in the oven, I am on Central time, so it is about 11:30 now. It has been in about 2 hours at 200 and is up to 57 degrees. I want to get the roast to something just below medium, I was thinking approximately 128 (is that the right temp??) I want to carve in approx 6.5 hours. I am going to kick it up to 225. Thanks again for your help.
re: Deadeye
Two hours in and only up to 57 seems low. I would definitely recommend you increase to the 225 setting. I think you could comfortably go somewhere between 128-132....expecting a 5-7* increase in temperature for carryover effect during the holding phase. You will be fine as far as time goes. You have plenty of time.
If the roast hits it's mark sooner, leave in the oven at 140* before the high heat blast at the end....or covered well, as not to let too much heat to escape or be cooled by a draft.
re: fourunder
Thanks for your help, have a great Christmas. It is at 70 now, so seems to be moving now.
re: fourunder
The roast got to 132 at 5pm, let it rest an hour and then hit it with high temp to warm/brown, It came out great, pink throughout.
Thanks for all your help!
re: Deadeye
Nice job and glad to hear it worked out well for you.....btw, the roast looks fantastic and better than the way mine turned out!
This is a great discussion, I am a little overwhelmed by all the information. I am going to try the low & slow method Christmas Day on a 12.25# boneless Costco Prime Rib.
We like it rare, so I am thinking to take it out between 110-115F, but can you help me figure out the best way- 150-200-225-250F and then how long to plan for the actual cooking time. I will try for the 1 hour rest and do the sides then.
I have a convection oven, but I am thinking there is no need to speed things up with that given the focus on low & slow.
re: busymumsy
Good morning,
At this point, the best temperature setting is arguable at best. There are some variables to consider for each individual roast and home kitchen, but nothing that should cause any concerns or worries. The one detail that I have question about is the size or thickness of the roast at the the thickest point in the middle. This is also where you would insert the probe thermometer is one is being used. If you do get a chance to check back in, you should also indicate what time you plan on serving dinner, or the roast specifically.
For my Roasts today, I have just placed them into the oven at 9:30AM, planning for a 3-3:30PM service. One roast is 7.25 pounds and the other is 10.5 pounds. Presently, I have set the oven at 450* for 20 minutes to brown the roasts. I then plan on dropping the temperature setting to 200* for the duration until the roast hit 122*. I expect the smaller roast to do so between 3.5 - 4.0...the larger roast to do so between 4.0 - 5.0 hours. With a two hour rest, I figure the time the process will be completed will be sometime around 3:30 PM...., or six hours total.
Without knowing your specific plans, it's a little difficult to determine which temperature is best for you to select...but my preference to roast meat is between 200-225 for overall results and convenience. If time is a concern, 250* will also provide a good result...but It's not my preferred choice temperature to roast at. Please note, that although I did include a two hour rest for my roasts as my best recommendation, the minimum resting period is 60 minutes before the roast is placed back into the oven for a high heat blast to bring the meat back up to a more pleasant serving temperature.
You have mentioned that the process seems overwhelming, but really, all you are doing is the following.
* Taking the roast out of the refrigerator for at least an hour before roasting
* Seasoning your roast if you have not already done so
* Preheating your oven to 450*
* Place your roast into the oven
* Brown your roast for 15-20 minutes at 450*
* Reduce the temperature to 200-225*
* Roast until it hits your target temperature
* Drop the temperature setting to warm or 140*
* Hold your roast for 60-120 minutes
* 10 minutes before serving, give your roast a 8-10 minute high heat blast
* Remove and slice.
I suspect the roasting time and resting period should take you about 4 hours, plus or minus 30 minutes....but to be safe, I would allow a 5 hour window. If your roast hits the target temperature sooner, all you do is hold the roast a little longer, which I believe is a good thing.
I do not recommend using the convection feature, and your instincts are correct, as the roast will cook faster and not something that low and slow process is about and trying to achieve... the longer roasting time is what is necessary to tenderize the meat and keep it moist.
Hi, Fourunder:
Thank you so much for posting and for your responses to everyone else here... your discussion and explanations are awesome, helpful, and an inspiration!
Last night, Christmas Eve 2012, my TWO 18-pound Prime Rib (bone-in) racks were fabulous and much acclaimed because of the information I found in your post -- THANK YOU !!!
Last Christmas (year 2011) I did an 8-pounder (for 6 adults and several children) with great success; as it was my 1st attempt to roast a Prime Rib, I followed instructions I found at "cooking for engineers" dot-com:
The engineers at that site, over a span of years, have meticulously timed, analyzed, and reported on their Prime Rib experiments; in particular, a site "guest" named "Eric", on December 26, 2005 (go to the link above and scroll down to find the guest-submittal), suggested that a heat blast, followed by 23.1 minutes per pound at 250-degress was his average roasting time for a medium-rare 7-pound standing rib roast... It did work for me...
This year, for a much larger Christmas Eve party (22 adults, 16 children), I got ambitious & thought to do TWO 18-pounders; we paid nearly $ 400 for the 2 racks (from Costco) and as my roast would be the feature of our holiday meal, in addition to the fact that we made a considerable investment in the cost of the meat, on the eve-of-the-eve, I started losing confidence on whether I could actually roast my racks with success.
I realized I was facing several challenges:
First, my oven is electric, 10-years old, and I could only surmise that it works good because I've never had trouble with it; reaching the correct heat, maintaining the heat, etc., were variables I wasn't sure of...
Second, the two meat-probe thermometers I'd purchased for this event, to my disappointment and dismay, would be useless because the set-point indicator arrow on the dial-face would only display upwards from 130-degrees Fahrenheit (last year I had a better probe and pulled my 8-pounder from the oven at 125-degrees); with no time to run out to purchase better thermometer probes, I was going to have to wing it...
Lastly, I'd overestimated the size of my oven: when I selected my two 18-pound Prime Rib racks at Costco, I thought I'd set them each in a roasting pan and place them side-by-side; however, when I got home and tested the placement of the roasts in my oven I discovered that my oven was too narrow and lacked depth for double side-by-side roasting; my oven also lacked height for stacking one rack above the other...
Thank goodness I found this site, your post, and the discussion!!!
Here is how I did it, in case this may help anyone else crazy enough to roast TWO 18-pounders simultaneously...
1. TWO 18-pound Prime Rib standing roasts (bone in).
2. Two large "full size aluminum" (disposable) "steam table" catering pans (20" x 12" x 3").
3. Two medium "half size aluminum" (disposable) "steam table" catering pans (12" x 10" x 2").
4. Butcher Twine.
5. Kosher Salt and Cracked Pepper (shakers wrapped in paper towels and rubber-banded for easy clean-up)
6. "Heavy duty" aluminum foil.
3 HOURS PRIOR TO ROASTING: remove the Prime Rib roasts from the refrigerator; set them out somewhere safe so they may warm to room-temperature.
PLACE AN OVEN RACK IN THE LOWEST POSSIBLE POSITION INSIDE THE OVEN (– you want to be roasting as close to the heating element as possible).
stack the two medium "half size aluminum" pans one on top of the other so that they are nested together; fold the pans into a triangular-shaped cylinder -- it will serve as a prop on which the ribs will rest for maximum use of oven space and so that heat may circulate around the Prime Rib racks while roasting;
stack the two large "full size aluminum" pans one on top of the other so that they are nested together; the two pans together will provided stability for the weight of the roasts;
cut 4 lengths of butcher twine – each piece long enough to tie the rib racks to the prop;
set the prop in the pan, on top of the twine;
unwrap the roasts – generously salt and pepper the roasts;
place the roasts in the pan on top of the twine and the prop, positioning the roasts so that the smaller ends of the ribs are standing in the bottom of the pan;
Cut a long length of Butcher Twine and tie up the circumference of the Prime Rib racks so they will remain standing and leaning against the prop while roasting.
Secure and tie the four shorter lengths of Butcher Twine to additionally secure the Prime Rib racks against the prop.
Place the tied Prime Rib in the preheated oven; set a kitchen timer for 20 minutes – heat blast them (the fats will pop and sizzle – the beginnings of a nice outer crust).!
At the conclusion of the 20-minutes of heat-blasting, turn down the oven to 250-degrees – do not open the oven door !!!
Leave the Prime Rib in the oven, undisturbed, for the entire roasting time: calculate 23 minutes per pound (i.e., each of my racks was 18 pounds; 18 pounds multiplied by 23 minutes per pound equals 414 minutes = 6 hours 54 minutes).
At the conclusion of the calculated time, pull the pan from the oven (being careful to not spill the drippings (about 2 cups of liquid – mostly fat).
Set the roast somewhere safe, cover it with foil, loosely crimping the foil around the edges of the pan, and allow it to rest for 2 hours.
At carving, the meat will be uniformly pink throughout the entire rack, there will not be any graying, the meat will be fork-tender, and you will not have any bleeding at plate-ing !!!
Merry Christmas, 2012 !!!
re: Katie808
Wow! ! ! Thanks for the excellent detailed response and I am happy for your success......You have even taught me a few things which I may not have figured out myself....namely propping up and tying the roast to stand tall and together for consistent roasting. I love it when i can learn from the experiences of others as well.
Like I mentioned to TomMN, I am humbled and honored you found you could trust my comments and have the confidence in my process to prepare your expensive roasts and be a small part in your holiday feast. My best Christmas presents this year are hearing stories like yours and others, who have come to embrace the low and slow process.....ultimately making more enjoyable Holiday experiences for years to come for all.
Happy Holidays and you did a great job! ! !
I want to add my thanks to fourunder to the chorus: Thank you! We followed your wonderfully instructive directions this year and will not go back to our old (previously thought to be fabulous) method.
Our rib roast was perfectly uniformly colored throughout with virtually not bleeding. Amazing.
We did let it rest again, after the final heat blast, so we could cook the Yorkshire Pudding, with no negative repercussions that we could see.
With such an expensive piece of meat it can be nerve-wracking to try a new way of cooking it. Thank you for holding our collective hands through this process.
re: mirage
Nice job and great to hear you had an enjoyable result with the low and slow process......another one for the win column and the home team!
Thanks for your guidance,
I took the rib out about 3 hours before cooking to come toward room temperature.
Did the 450F blast for 20 minutes then turned the oven down to 225 F
Based on your advice I planned for 3-4 hours of cooking time (12.25# boneless) and took the meat out at 3.5 hours. It was at 115F
We rested the roast just over an hour and it went to 120F. My family likes it rare, in asking after, each person said they would be okay with it going another 5 degrees if we had company and needed to be polite, but they were very happy with it the way it was, especially since that means the leftovers can be warmed this AM without going grey.
I loved the mellow 1 hour rest whilst I cooked all the sides!
re: busymumsy
Just to be clear, when you say rest before the final blast, is this in a warm temp oven, or tented with foil, before the final blast?
re: monavano
You have the option of doing either, or using either method. If you need the oven for sides, then you wrap foil over the roasting pan tightly or loosely, depending on the size of your roast....I prefer loosely myself....but for smaller roast, I cover with a large stainless steel bowl and a large bath towel. The mass of the meat will create a carryover increase anywhere from 5-10*. I like to finish at least two hours in advance of serving time, so the issues of needing the oven for sides is not a concern for me....so I just hold in a warm oven @ 140* for up to 4 hours.. ...less mess to clean up.
You can easily finish sides during the holding phase, especially if the roast is outside the oven, but if you do rest the roast in the oven, simply finish your high heat blast and finish your side afterwards. As indicated by TomMN in this thread, his roast hit temperature 3.5 hours before dinner service and he rested it the entire time before he finished the blast.... and then held for an additional 30 minutes while finishing his sides.
Good luck and I'll check back in if you require some more clarification.....I home for the day.
re: fourunder
Thank you for your guidance. So helpful!
I made a small-ish prime rib roast last Sat. for just DH and me and although I used a sort of hybrid high->low/close oven for 2 hours and don't peak method, it came out pretty good.
If I decide to up the ante and serve (a bigger and higher quality=$$$$) prime ribs to guests, I know my technique has to be honed and solid, so this helps a great deal.
What I'm really loving is the time that I have to prep sides as the roast rests before final blasting. I have 2 ovens, so I have some room to groove!
re: monavano
Thank you for the kind words......I'll bet that once you have enjoyed your roast today....you'll find that this was a very good method to prepare the Prime Rib......I'll go on further to say in the end, you'll come to realize the entire process was actually very easy and not difficult at all.....You do not need any experience to follow this recipe or process.....all you need is time and patience.
One final note.....this method works equally as well on veal, pork, lamb, turkey and inexpensive beef cuts....so you can practice on the latter.
re: busymumsy
Nice to hear you had a successful result! Great job and thanks you for sharing your details and story.
I sort of used Kenji's and your methods combined. I got a 3-rib, 5.86-pound roast, small end. I dried it on a rack in the fridge for only aout 36 hours. I let it sit at room temp, kosher salted and peppered, for an hour and fifteen minutes.
My oven hadn't seemed up to temp the few days prior, so I used two oven thermometers (one the probe-on-a-wire type so the oven need not be opened to read it) to acheive 200 degrees; this happened on the oven setting of 220. I put the roast on a rack over a baking sheet and put it in, taping the door closed with masking tape to discourage curiosity looks, which really brings down the oven temp and messes up the timing. My thermometer maintained readings of 196-202 throughout the cooking.
I removed the roast from the oven to check internal temp after 3 hours - don't remember what it was, but it wasn't done yet. After 4 hours and 5 minutes, it hit 119.5 degrees - bingo!
I tented it with foil and kept it on the kitchen counter near the oven. It stood for 30-40 minutes, then it went back into the 500-degree oven for six minutes.
Wow. So glad there was a deep juice channel in the carving board! That was the juiciest roast I have ever seen! My mom, who eats her beef done to shoe-leather, had to shriek, "blood!!" - her slice went into the warm iron skillet that I had waiting - sigh.
Success. Yummy. Thanks to you and Kenji for all of your research and knowledge.
Now all that's left is to make stock from the scraps and bones so that it can be frozen and used for next year's jus.
re: sandylc
Nice job....and kudos for the smarts and creativity to ensure a constant temperature by adding the oven thermometer and taping the door shut, as not to let any heat escape. I have always maintained the oven thermometer is more important than the digital probe thermometer often mentioned as the most import tool for a proper oven roast.
With regards to Kenji's method....my approach first started back in 2009/10 with his Perfect Prime Rib Approach, which recommended a 30 minute rest. I achieved an excellent roast, but I experienced more bleeding than preferred. Through research and disruptions and delays in serving since that initial try....by accident and by design, longer resting periods occurred and it was easily notable how much better the texture and tenderness of each roast became with the long resting periods of 60 minutes plus. After a year of trials and experiments with different cuts of beef...I found the most important steps necessary for a truly great result was time....first for allowing the low and slow process to complete, then the longer resting period to allow the meats to work their magic to further tenderize.
In the same time as I was posting my results here on Chowhound..In Kenji's recommendations for resting time in his original posts, he cites clearly that 30 minutes was the BEST number to allow the roast to rest before the high heat blast.....Since then he has changed his tune to say a 60 or 90 minute rest is preferable. Coincidence? :0)
In the end, my thoughts on your most recent experience and 30-40 minute rest is the culprit for your bleeding issue. The longer rest of 2 hours or more seem to make that concern a non issue. if you look at the pictures throughout this thread posted by me and or others....you'll see similar results to my findings.....minimal bleeding.
Again, great job and thanks for sharing.
PS....sorry to hear about Mom...sound eerily similar to my experiences at every Holiday with my SIL
: 0 )
re: fourunder
You lasered your way straight to the only flaw in my process! I had wanted to time things for longer stand time, but goofed it up. It's like planning a NASA operation to time the oven temps and also let the rolls rise, find broiler time to brulee the rice pudding, etc., all while making sure guests get out of the door in time to drive home so they can be at work early the next morning....you get the pic.
I will try to discipline myself to write good notes for next year!
Just (another,) thank you to fourunder for sharing your research! I was able to glance at the recipe the inlaws were following like it was law and think "Oh, Shit!" based on what you had written. I turned the oven off 20 minutes early when no one was looking and the end result was a perfect medium, which is exactly their taste.
When I try it here I'll try the low and slow method you've posted about and take it only to med-rare. :)
re: weezieduzzit
Funny story and thanks for sharing.....
I've followed Fourunder's advice for the past four years with the blessing of double ovens. I am anticipating having one oven in the next couple of years as we downsize, and have been paying attention to the heating and resting methodology my fellow CHers have been doing. Also, the aging, dry and wet, that folks are doing. My butcher recommended freezing for 3 days and then thawing for the same, more or less. Idea is that the freeze cycle would tenderize the beef. I also don't have the budget for prime, hence the advice.
The other thing I found fascinating is everyone's ideas for warming plates. Steam, put in skillet and rotate, put in roast oven as it rests, any other ideas? Love your advice, Fourunder, you are my rib roast God!
What's holding me back from the low and slow is the overall timing of the meal, when I only have one oven to work with and it's a smaller built-in oven. The method calls for a blast as the last step, right before presentation and carving, correct? So it means the oven needs to be cranked up and won't be available for my sides (twice-baked potatoes, sweet potatoes, rolls)
Am I missing something?
re: Verocindy
I recommend a two hour rest for the roast, so there's plenty of time to heat the sides. Once the sides are finished, you can finish the high heat blast The posters above have noted that in allowing for the extra hour plus(2hours) over what is normally recommended by others(20-30 minutes), makes warming up or finishing any sides virtually stress free and timing is no longer an issue. . You can do it any number of ways available to you,
* On the counter, wrapped in foil, a bowl and towels
* Wrapped and put into an insulated beverage cooler
* Inside the oven at 140*
If you provide more details about your specific menu or plans, I or others, can suggest a timing schedule for you. just provide the information on what type of sides and the amount of time you think you'll need to heat those up. If you feel it will take an hour or less, you will fit perfectly into a two hour hold..... the twice baked and sweet potatoes get heated until ready, any other sides, then you crank up the oven for 10 minutes, place the roast back in and do the high heat blast for another 10. Pull and you are ready to sslice.
btw....Boneless weight or how many ribs?
re: fourunder
If you have everything at room temp. and ready to go when the roast comes out for its resting you won't need more than about 45 minutes to reheat everything. Potatoes can be pre-baked the day before so all they need is heating through, and they'll remain hot if removed from the oven right before the heat blast. Perhaps some of the veggies can be done on the stovetop? Also, broccoli roasted at high heat is delicious! Sounds like a great meal.
re: fourunder
We followed your method last year with good success. Last year was bone in, this year the butcher suggested to my wife to go boneless, better value. What will the cooking time be on a 6# boneless and what does everyone prefer, bone in, bone out?
re: Quig7557
Glad to hear you enjoyed and had success last year with the Low and Slow Approach. The answer to your question is not a simple answer, strictly by indicating the weight of the roast. There are some variables to consider, specifically the shape of the roast. If it is a larger eye center(round shape), it will take longer to reach temperature than a smaller eye or( flatter shape). I just posted a couple of pictures in the thread below to give you an idea of what I mean. Although one roast is bone-in and the smaller one is boneless, you can get a roast that is similar in size and shape of the bone-in roast. Both roasts are about six inches in length. Another way to explain it is if you have ever purchases a Whole Pork Loin, which would weigh about 6-7 pounds on average. If you split the loin in half, although the weight is 50% less, they full loin would require similar cooking time as the one that has been halved.
As for the preference bone-in or boneless....I'll always prefer the bone, but I do not believe the meat is better near the bone.....I just like to gnaw on the bone or give it to the Family dogs a a treat.
Depending on your roasting temperature(200-250* figure about (2-2.5 hours) roasting time plus the amount of time you can hold for (1-2 hours)...which I recommend at a minimum of one, but two is best.
re: fourunder
Hi four under,
I am so thankful for your help. This is my first prime rib and at 7.99 a pound, I don't want to screw it up!
I got more information today about dinner. The number of guests will be 12-14 adults. We seem to be split on doneness, with half wanting medium-rare and half liking medium. I am ordering the meat from The Fresh Market; they dry-age them at least 14 days. The butchers cut the bones off and tie them back on.
With the split on doneness, should I do 2 smaller roasts? or will a large one have medium on the edges and medium-rare in the middle? And how many ribs do I order?
BTW, I am feeling more comfortable about coordinating the sides and achieving my timing. Just needed a pep talk.
re: Verocindy
Good evening Verocindy,
First let me start by saying if you have approximately 7 hours, a digital thermometer and a calibrated oven....it's impossible to ruin a Prime Rib Roast/s with the Low and Slow Approach. The price of $7.99/lb. is also a pretty good deal for a semi aged PR Roast ..My suggestion is if you have not already, you purchase as soon as possible and continue to age the meat in your own refrigerator. Having them tie off the roast is a mixed blessing....you certainly win in the convenience department, however it does not allow you to season the bones or the roast over the bones(underside). I would suggest you ask the your butcher to tie off the roasts, but to give you some extra twine to duplicate the 3 or 4 strands needed for each roast...along with some extra fat pieces should they have trimmed too much off. The extra fat will allow the roast to self baste.... and the fat renderings are an extra bonus should you need to make a roux for gravy. Even if you don't need them for the roast, it's nice to leave them in the roast pan to render, have the remnants and make home fries the next day..... or simply fry an egg with the fat. Re-tying the roast is as easy as tying your shoes...so no worries there.
The general rule is one bone for two people. That basically gives you a half inch slice per person. With the low temperature roasting, the yield will hold true for those expectations, however, if you decide to roast at any higher than 250*, e.g., 325*, the roast will shrink and you will lose some yield overall.....that's why most all commercial kitchens and Prime Rib Houses embrace the low and slow approach. The benefit of higher roasting temperatures are a quicker finished roast and varying degrees of temperature(doneness), i.e., Well-Done, Medium, Medium-Rare and Rare....The trade off for tenderness does not make it worthwhile for me.
The concept of low and slow roasting is it mimics the the dry-aging process to allow the enzymes to do their work and naturally tenderize the meat.....all you have to do is allow for the extra time and anyone can master the approach and method. You cannot rush this process and if you have a convection feature in your oven, DO NOT use it for the main roasting...it may be used for the high heat blast.
You are in a enviable position from what I can see. You seem to have a relationship with the butcher, a good thing. I have the same with mine at the Supermarket. Whenever there is a sale and I make a request, he takes the extra time to make the special cuts for me and in return, I duke him a 5 spot and tell him to have his next coffee or beer on me. Possibly you can do the same and ask him to look for an eye that has as much marbling as possible from what he has available in inventory. The second reason why you are in an enviable position is you can either purchases one roast in 5,6 or the full 7-Ribs.....or you can get two separate roasts..a 4-Rib and a 3-Rib/4-Rib. It also puts you in a position to request a full 7-Rib cut in half, which would give you the large and small ends....The Large end is also known as the Chuck End, the Small end is the Loin. The small end is leaner and has a bigger eye, but I prefer to have the larger Chuck End myself, as I like the Deckle or Fat Cap the best....the Chuck end has this, the Loin end does, but its minimal most of the time. The Chuck end will also have more fat, which equals more flavor, for most like myself.
Given that your camp is half and half on temperature, I would choose to go with two separate roasts. This will also give you 4 END cuts....your cooking schedule essentially remains the same, especially if you adopt the concept for the two hour holding period.. One the first roast hits 123-130 for Medium-Rare, you can pull it from the oven and wrap it up...or simply place in an insulated cooler. After the carryover effect is finished( 5-7*), the roast stops any further increase in cooking up and simply retains it's heat and/or starts to cool slightly. With the first roast pulled, you can insert the thermometer into the second roast and see where the mark is. The second roast you will need to bring to 130-135*,. You can simply keep the thermostat setting at 225*, or increase it to 250* for the next hour. If you use the higher 250, you will get a slightly higher increase in carryover(10*). When you hit your next mark, you pull and hold the second roast just like the first. Now you have 1+ hours to heat and finish your sides. When your sides are done, you can choose not to reheat up, reheat for 20 minutes @ 250*, pull the roasts out for 5 minutes while you crank the oven back up to 450-500 to get hot....then put the roasts back in for 10 minutes for the blast. When you pull the roasts....by the time you get the sides on the table, have your camera ready to document your successes and slice away. both roasts will be beautifully pink.
Below are the two Prime Rib Roasts I purchased this evening for my family's Christmas Day Dinner. I'll pull the packaging and start to air dry immediately in the refrigerator. 48 hours before roasting, I'll season with Kosher Salt and Fresh Cracked Black Pepper only. The roast on the left is a Choice Grade Chuck End Roast, 4.99/lb or $35. The Roast on the right is the same Choice Grade, but CAB, or Certified Angus Beef for 6.99/lb. or $50. All in for under $90
When it comes to thermometers, I've always used a simple Instant Probe I just stuck into the meat when I thought the roast was ready.....they work fine and for about $5, everyone should have one. For Beef roasts, the Digital Probe Thermometer I use is a very basic model from Taylor, an Industry Standard in Commercial Cooking Supplies. This one only costs $12 bucks and you do not need to get anything more expensive. whether just another $10 or more at $70-80 for a Thermapen Instant Read.
re: fourunder
My sad report: We chose to go with one large roast, because the built-in oven could accommodate the large roasting pan. We planned to split the difference on temperature, aiming to cook at 225* to 130 degrees, on the border between medium-rare and medium, with a resting period of 1-2 hours. The meat was 6-rib, 16 lbs. with the bones cut off but tied back on. We took it out of the fridge about 2 hours beforehand. I checked the oven temperature with a thermometer, and it was running 25-30 degrees low. Also had a brand-new Onieda probe thermometer from BBB that was checked using the ice water/boiling water test. When we stuck the probe at the start, it said 120, obviously not working. Did 450 for15 minutes, lowered to 225. Checked it 2 hours later with an instant read, and it was already at 118. Lowered the oven temp and a half hour later it was 130. Pulled it and rested on the counter covered for 3 hours. Blasted it for 8 minutes and started cutting. It was barely pink. My husband and I were crestfallen. However, the crowd - both the declared medium-rare's and medium's - was happy.
Our conclusions: not blaming low and slow, it really gave flexibility to the meal prep for sides with the longer resting time, however 1) don't trust new equipment, 2) know your oven and 3) plan dinner with guests who share your beliefs about what makes a great piece of meat! We can only assume the oven fluctuates and ran higher (our daughter only moved in last summer and doesn't use it much). We will not be repeating this experience for a holiday dinner. And enjoying eating prime rib at trusted restaurants where medium-rare really is medium-rare.
re: Verocindy
Sorry to hear your experience...by what I read, between the oven and the digital probe, the thermostat setting and the readings were inaccurate? That surely is a disappointment.
I would still suggest you do not give up on the low and slow approach, as it works for veal, beef, pork and poultry. It's really no different than cooking Turkey in the end.
I've mentioned this before, many on this site preach the importance of a digital probe, but I also have two commercial kitchen staples..a simple instant read thermometer and a oven thermometer, the latter which I have argued is even more important than a digital probe, to know if the oven runs hot or cold.
If I may make one more suggestion, please have a look at the following threads. They are both about cooking cheaper cuts of beef, low and slow....Although cheaper cuts, the process is exactly the same for Prime Rib. Give them a try and I know it would give you the confidence to give a Holiday Prime Rib another shot.
There have been a few site members who have mentioned they have these two threads saved for reference.
Finally, this is too little, too late...but i would return the Digital Probe thermometer, or at the very least, exchange it for a different one. Regrets.
re: Verocindy
BTW...if it is any small consolation to you, this past week slow roasted TWO Legs of Lamb at my son's house in his fancy new kitchen....he has all the bells and whistles on his fancy electric oven. Generally I find electric ovens to ve reliable, but with the damned thing shutting off without me knowing, I too had some severe timing issues and the I over-cooked the lamb.....it happens to us all.
Prime Rib questions. There is so much great information on the low and slow method in this thread, I decided to post here and ask the experts. I just came home from the butcher with a 2-rib piece of prime rib weighing just under 4 pounds. I have always cooked prime rib traditionally with high at first and turning down the oven. This year, since there are just two of us, I really want to experiment and try cooking it low and slow.
My questions:
-I just bought the meat home, do I leave it in the wrapping or open the wrapping and put in in a loosely covered pan so it can age and dry out over the next few days.
-On the day of roasting, how long should I cook it, and at what temperature? Really want it rare to slightly medium rare.
-Will this produce enough drippings to make gravy? I didn't think to ask the butcher if he could give me some extra fat.
-Is there anything else I am missing?
Thanks for any advise!!
re: Springhaze2
My questions:
-I just bought the meat home, do I leave it in the wrapping or open the wrapping and put in in a loosely covered pan so it can age and dry out over the next few days.
-On the day of roasting, how long should I cook it, and at what temperature? Really want it rare to slightly medium rare.
-Will this produce enough drippings to make gravy? I didn't think to ask the butcher if he could give me some extra fat.
-Is there anything else I am missing?
Fourunder strikes again! I had no plans for prime rib but am a faithful fourunder roast meat follower and couldn't resist the rib roast on sale at the store today. I have a 2 bone 4 lb roast which I plan to cook New Year's Eve. Fourunder, should I bother to freeze it or just leave it in the butcher paper until Wednesday and let it sit uncovered? I think the rest of the details have been covered here so I hope not to rehash everything but am excited to try another cut with your methods.
re: fldhkybnva
Good evening f...
FWIW, I purchased my roasts last Wednesday & Thursday for tomorrows dinner. They averaged 7 pounds and are 3-Rib, 4-Rib roasts. I removed the packaging and started air drying immediately, but your roast is a little smaller...so I'd probably keep it in paper and air dry on Thurs-Fri....season 48 hours in advance. Any more and the beef may get too hard and you would have to do some extra shaving of the hard and dry pieces.
I would not freeze it, as it would probably need a minimum two days to defrost.
The post above has my pictures of this year's roasts for tomorrow and show a 5 day air dry ultimately a 7 day air dry....You can see how dry it got....When salted, it did release some moisture, but not any pooling on the tray or plate...more like a sweat.
re: fourunder
Great, I'm so excited to give this a try. I kept reading prime rib threads and thinking "gosh, who would do that?" and now I've joined the party.
re: fldhkybnva
Here's the thread with the pictures of my Christmas 2013 roasts for tomorrow.
re: fourunder
I did mine on Christmas eve and it (they) was fantastic. One cooked l&s rare from Harvey's Guss prime meats in LA and one home aged from Costco (prime IMO, mislabeled as choice) cooked l&s medium. I played hero today, thanks to some fourunder tips. Heck yeah! :-)
Merry Christmas to all....it's Christmas Day morning, 2013.
I've just place part of my Holiday Roasts into the oven at 9:00AM. I'm expecting 3-4 hours of cooking at 200*. the plans this kept changing and additional roasts had to be added. I'm roasting three separate Prime Rib Roasts and a Leg of Lamb. There's a problem with Oven space and the hurdle has presented a challenge to get everything cooked in the time necessary.
1. Prime Rib Roast, 3-Ribs, 7 pounds
2. Prime Rib Roast, 4-Ribs, 7 pounds.
3. Prime Rib Roast, 2- Ribs, 4 pounds
4. Leg of Lamb, 6.pounds.
All the beef has been air dried for 7 days. The Leg of Lamb was Wet-Aged for 26 days and air dried for 2 , for a total of 28 Days.
At 9:00AM I placed the two Prime Ribs, 7 pounds each and the Leg of Lamb into the oven @ 450* for 15 minutes, then dropped down to 200. The small 4 pound Prime Rib will be seared on the stove and placed into the oven at 11:00AM. I expect all the roast to hit target temperatures around 1:00PM and I'll hold for two hours inside the oven at 140*...planning on a 3-3:30PM Dinner.
My calculations are based on 30 minutes per pound for 200* roasting after the initial sear @ 450* for 20 minutes...plus an additional 45-60 minutes for the multiple roasts and crowding issues, which prompted me to goo with 200* for the roasting temperature, rather than my initial plans and preference for 225*. With the extra mass and crowding, I figure the lower temperature plus extra time will be needed for more consistent cooking of the meat.
re: fourunder
I'm just wondering as I know your method is your own spin on Kenji's method at Serious Eats. Any idea why he states that the cooking time is independent of roast size?
re: fldhkybnva
Every roast has different characteristics....starting with grade, or marbling. then there's size, shape and weight as determining factors. The butcher can cut the meat and remove all, some or none of the fat cap. he can leave the bones long or short.,,,Then there's the issue of aging, or how the meat was handled, prior to you receiving it....The moisture and fat content affect the roasting times as well.
I believe taking two similar roasts in weight and character for comparison.....while they will roast and hit target temperature in similar time. any differences in total roasting time will be due to shape, i.e. round as opposed to flat shape.
re: fourunder
This was my thought as well which is why I didn't understand the suggestion that most roasts will cook in the same length of time regardless of # of bones, shape, etc.
re: fldhkybnva
let's get one thing straight...I've been roasting low and slow for a pretty long time...and before I ever knew who Kenji-alt was. I saw, as many others have as well, his perfect Prime Rib recipe back in 2010-11?....and gave it a shot. At the time I was reading and being advised about different opinions, facts and findings about initial searing or browning at the end. ....With Kenji's report, I gave his recipe a try and I liked the results....but to give him or any single chef credit is silly. Beef has been recommended and roasted at low and slow temperatures for a very long time...and his process is not really much different than the Cook's Illustrated recommendations I've bee using for 15+ years. Even today with his other recipes, e.g. Porchetta, he's just posting a recipe with his own little tweaks from other similar recipes from different sources.
The noticeable difference in my approach is the 2 hour rest.
From the seriouseats 2009 article....
"But then, I thought, 20 to 30 minutes is exactly how long a rib roast needs to rest anyhow. What if I were to first cook it at a low temperature (200°F or lower), take it out of the oven, allow it to rest while I heated the oven to its highest temperature (500 to 550°F), then pop it back in just long enough to achieve a crust?"
Kenji has since recommended 1 hour.
I found out the two hour rest by accident when someone was late for dinner and I had to hold the roasts longer than expected at 1 hour. ( You can hold a roast for up to 4 hours without any problems)...but then I realized I should have known that all along, as that's how the Commercial Kitchens I had been associated with have been doing for the last 30 years.
My opinion of all the food recipes from the printed, blogs or chefs.....they just try to reinvent the recipe they've seen in the past by changing an insignificant detail and stress it as a big one so they can call it their recipe. Like them, I use them for ideas. They try to be relevant so people will check in and follow them...I don't really need to care about that.
re: fourunder
I am really excited about my premium choice 7 rib roast. It's about 17.5 lbs. I've cooked it up to about 124 degrees internal. I prefer rare, but I'm pushing towards medium rare to keep the crowd happy. I noticed once I got there that my fancy, overpriced double oven will only let you go down to 170 degrees as the minimum temp, so I went ahead and removed the roast and wrapped it in aluminum foil. However, I was wondering, would holding it at 170 degrees be acceptable for the 2 hour holding period, or would it just be too hot?
Thanks in advance for your consideration.
re: garza
btw...I roasted 3 different Prime Rib Roasts to accommodate the different tastes this year. I kept the probe in the smaller roast until it hit 125..... The smallest 2-rib Roast I put in the oven 2 hours later than the first two.,
9am, 11 am, hit marks around 1;30.
I'm hold the three roasts and a leg of lamb at 140*
Next time consider splitting the Full 7-Rib or purchasing two smaller ones. I prefer the Chuck End, so the latter workd better for me and I can get 7 or 8 Ribs total.
re: fourunder
After tinkering around with the oven, the oven (Wolf) will hold 140 degrees in convection mode. (I'm hesitant to crack the oven as I have a 7, 6, 4, and 2 year old running around). Will this work or do you think the convection setting will dry the rib roast out?
Thanks so much for your reply and suggestions above!
Merry Christmas!
re: garza
The convection feature should not be used for primary roasting....as it defeats the purpose of the low and slow approach, which require time as a necessary component. The convection feature can be used for the high heat blast.
I've never tried a convection feature during the holding phase....worst case scenario , turn on and off for 15 minut intervals.
re: fourunder
After 2 hours, put in oven at 250 degrees for 20 minutes, followed by 500 degrees for 10 minutes (I'm hoping to pick up a degree or two of doneness in the process?) Sound appropriate?
re: fourunder
Worked quite well! I had a little but of bleeding - I think due in part that I started cutting 6 mins after final blast. Thank you so much for your advice - my wife reluctantly had to admit that, at the very least, low and flow wasn't a mistake! I will do again! Thank you!
re: fourunder
I have a smaller roast so plan to sear on the stovetop, just a few minutes per side? I usually don't add much oil for a ribeye steak and I imagine that applies here as well. Just get the pan really hot and sear all three sides?
re: fldhkybnva
just a minute on each side all around...you do need a little fat so it doesn't stick, but if there is sufficient fat on the roast fat cap, then you can just use that....that's what I do...I slice off a little fat and melt it in the pan....for a small roast....or a steak.
re: fourunder
Great thanks. The plan is to serve New Years Eve so will uncover it tomorrow morning or evening, salt Sunday and roast early Tuesday. As mentioned above, it's only 2 ribs so hopefully that's a long enough time but not too long.
re: fldhkybnva
As I indicated in an earlier post...mine were going for 6-9 days uncovered....seasoned 48 hours in advance. Last night we went through 2 larger 3/4-Rib Roasts....The smaller 2-Rib roast was not touched..It was cooked to 130*, cooled to room temperature, then into the fridge.
Getting hungry, we decided to reheat a piece of the two bone.....sliced it open and it looked perfect. allowed it to sit for 30 minutes , then gave it a slow reheat at 225* for an hour ....details to provided in a post later, the roast warmed to 110* and not a hint of color change. the meat was perfect....and it was just a simple roast picked up at the Supermarket @ $4.99/lb.
re: fourunder
Wow, impressive! I was wondering about reheating and now I know. I imagine if partially sliced maybe would heat better in a warm pan but good to know I can do a slow oven as well. I guess I might cut the bones off so it's easier to season on Sunday and just start letting it dry now. You mentioned the usual time might dry out a smaller roast but seemed to work ok for you.
re: fldhkybnva
You mentioned the usual time might dry out a smaller roast but seemed to work ok for you
It did, but that's really a subjective observation. The roast was great, but where the meat was exposed, I did not trim, and with the combination of salting.... There definitely was some hard edges that were not pleasant. I didn't see that happen on the surface on the bigger roasts.
re: fourunder
Hmm, it's been uncovered for a day or so and the fat and edges are pretty dry and hard already. I assumed that I could just leave it until Tuesday and it would only affect the edges that will just have to be trimmed or will the dryness eventually spread deeper in the roast? I don't mind trimming the edges and letting the inside continue to age but don't want to risk having to trim a lot. I've left steaks for 2 days or so and the dryness usually seems to just stay at the edges but didn't want to assume incorrectly.
re: fldhkybnva
don't trim until you need to roast...a couple of hours before it needs to go in the oven
re: fourunder
I don't trim-AT ALL-before I put a roast in the oven-you are eliminating the most important ally to a great roast!
re: skyy38
even if you let it sit in the fridge for a few days and it has dried out edges?
re: skyy38
With regards to the trimming of the roast....we are not talking about the fat, or fat cap....but rather the dried meat surface areas that develop on the roast after air drying in the refrigerator.
re: fourunder
I just dawned on me when I took a closer look at the roast sitting in the fridge that it has hardly any fat cap. In the store it did, so the butcher must have trimmed it!! I assume it will still be fine since it's low and slow but sometime the fatty bits are tasty. I have a full jar of tallow from roasted marrow bone which will work great for searing.
re: fldhkybnva
You can add some fat for more renderings, but other than for the sear in a fry pan, it's not necessary for a 450* browning.
I like to use a little of the fat trimmings to sear in a fry pan, but vegetable oil does the same thing....so if you want to save the rendering for something else, like potatoes or frying an egg or burger....it 's a toss up what you choose to use.
re: fourunder
Hello and happy holidays Fourunder,
Just needed to say thanks for your detailed guidance on the low and slow rib roasts. I tried it for the first time on Christmas eve for a family of twelve. It turned out spectacular. I wanted to share a bit because I was a bit unsure of a few specific details when I started and I couldn't really find the answers in a number of forum threads that I read. The main issue was the cooking time for a big roast. I've seen posts with time estimates of 30min/lb for boneless roasts and up to an hour/lb for bone-in roasts when cooked at 200F. The problems is that my oven only has a convention roast setting (no non-convection roast setting). I think you mentioned in one of your posts to not use convection (or maybe I saw that somewhere else). So, anyway, I wanted to share the details. I pretty much followed the recipe you listed in your 1/18/12 post. But, what was I to do with a big roast. I bought a prime grade 17.5lb full boneless roast since it was a few bucks cheaper per pound when you buy the whole thing. I wrapped it in cheesecloth and dry aged it in my beer fridge at ~34-35F and ~40% humidity for eight days. The morning of the feast, I pulled it out and shaved off the dried meat and fat. I cut about a five lb chunk from the large end and vacuum sealed it for another time. I then cut the remaining roast into two pieces about 6 & 8 inches long. I salt and peppered and put them side by side with about 2 inches between then on a rack + cookie sheet. I blasted in 500F convection for 8min then lowered to 175F (with door open for about 10 min to loose residual oven heat). I also put a mug of water in the oven and checked it after about two hours and it was at 161F. So maybe my oven runs a little cool. I measured the temp of the roast with a digital instant read thermometer and plugged the resulting hole with the tip of a wooden skewer to keep the juices from escaping. The temp change went like this…initial temp=38F, 30min=53(big roast), 60min=73(big roast), 150min=107(big), 190min=121(big) and 130(small roast). I pulled them out and wrapped them in two layers foil. Approximately 2 hours later, they were both at 122F. I put them back in the oven at 250F for 20min then blasted at 500F till nicely browned (just under 10min). I immediately started to carve. There was slight bleeding but not too bad. The big roast was on the low side of a true med rare and the small roast was on the low side of med (my subjective opinion) . Everyone was able to find a perfect doneness. Success! I served it with freshly grated horseradish, mashers, and carrots that I roasted on the bbq. Yum. The one thing that I was worried about was planning for cooking time for a large roast. In the end, I postulated that as soon as the roast length is about the same as the width, then the cooking time doesn't significantly increase with weight. That seemed to be true as the 13ish pounds of roast only took about 3hrs to cook. I hope my experience helps other to give it a try. Thanks again. Rippedtee (PDX)
re: rippedtee
Good evening rippedtee,
Thanks for the excellent report and comprehensive details. I find them to be very informative and I'm sure others will too. That's a great looking roast and it always nice to hear you found the process doable, even for a first time and you were able to share your *spectacular* success with everyone at your table.
With regards to...The one thing that I was worried about was planning for cooking time for a large roast. In the end, I postulated that as soon as the roast length is about the same as the width, then the cooking time doesn't significantly increase with weight. That seemed to be true as the 13ish pounds of roast only took about 3hrs to cook.
Your observations are correct. There is not much difference in roasting times between a 4-6 Rib Roast, the one variable I find that does have a significant impact is the shape of the roast(High Round)...especially with bones... They will always take longer to cook and reach temperature...and cook the meat near the bones.
A few points to note:
* Anytime I've heard of mishaps, it usually comes down to performance of the oven, and or the digital probe thermometer....while others mention the importance of the digital probe for roasting, I've always mentioned I believe the accuracy of the oven is more important to get a predictable result. while I do use a Digital Probe thermometer, I also use a simple Instant Read as well to check if necessary. Also, I periodically check the oven with an actual Oven Thermometer. All three below are the ones I use and together they cost me approximately $25.
* In general, with low temperature roasting @ 225*, I recommend 50 minutes per pound. That will cover the initial sear in the oven, the primary cooking and the two hour holding period. This give you an estimation of time only. Other ways to estimate are after a 20 minute sear at 450* in the beginning of your roast:
@ 200*, 30 minutes per pound
@ 225*, 25 minutes per pound
@ 250*, 18-20 minutes per pound.
* With regards to the convection/non-convection aspect of roasting....Convection will run hotter in a sense and cook the roast faster....usually by 30-45 minutes faster.
Since you do have another portion of that roast saved for another day....My advice modify your recipe and to is roast at 200* if possible to offset the convection feature to mimic 225*.
Try it out on a cheaper cut of beef.
Great job and thanks for sharing.
Ok, I've already screwed up. I missed that you recommend a 2-hr resting period and I just took my roast out of the fridge to bring to room temperature. This means, I'll only have, at most, a 1 hour resting period. I assume bringing it to room temperature is more important than allowing for the full 2-hr resting period before the heat blast at the end?
Many thanks!
re: JenEsq
In my opinion, the two hour rest is more important than bringing the meat up to room temperature....unless it's a very large roast with a large round shape. With a smaller, flatter shape, the meat will warm up fine in the oven after the sear and the beginning of the cooking phase.
What size is your roast, how do you want your final result, what temperature do you wish to roast at and what time would you like to serve dinner. at?
One hour rest is fine...two is better.
re: fourunder
Thanks for your quick reply! It's a 4-rib roast, about 9.5 pounds. It's not particularly round.
I want the final result to be medium rare. Last year I tried the Paula Deen, turn off the oven approach with a slightly larger roast and it turned out too rare - really, it was rare, except around the edges. Some of the guests were "not feeling it," as they say.
I planned to roast at 450 for the first 15 minutes, then 225 for about 3 hours (til 120 degrees), rest and then a heat blast at 450 before serving.
re: JenEsq
Your plan sounds fine....I would suggest you take it a little higher to 125 to get to the higher range of the Medium-Rare zone, not the lower and cook the meat more consistently to the bone, where it won't see any sign of red, or blood.
I've heard the same complaints from the ones who like their meat cooked a little more. I'm roasting three separate Prime Rib roasts to accommodate the ones that like Medium....that roast I'm bringing to 130....the ones to Medium-Rare, I'm bringing to 125, as I do not expect the carryover to bring it above 135, but closer to 130*
re: fourunder
Thanks again! Especially for taking time out from your own cooking to post. You've no doubt helped so many chow hounders! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
re: fourunder
BUT, the half hour rest assures you that you won't have to do the "500d Torch Thang for Ten Minutes" AFTER letting your roast rest for 2 hours.
Also, this business of "tenting" is just going to ruin your carryover temperature, the temperature that you've been monitoring so *closely*....
re: carine
I'd be more worried if you had forgotten to lay some oil down in the bottom of your pan so your roast wouldn't stick to everything.
BTW, my definition of "bottom of roast" is the "fat cap" NOT the "rib side". MY ribs are always sticking up not down, when roasting....
re: carine
I've never tried the method you used, or are using. Since you've already started and completed the high heat phase....you have since opened the door, so you have changed the the process, as the controlled environment has be altered....heat has escaped and now it's different..
assuming you are using a digital probe thermometer, you should be okay....
Not to play armchair quarterback, but this is why I would never recommend the recipe. It allows zero chance to recover if the oven door is opened.
but if I were in your predicament, then I would finish the salt bed and roast the remainder of the cooking phase @ 200* til done, i.e., when you hit your target temperature before you start the holding period.
re: fourunder
well i did not open the door until 1 hour 45 min after turning off the oven...and even without the salt on bottom between pan and bones it turned out beautiful!!!! I am so glad I did not ruin Christmas dinner. Thank you for your response. Blessings!
re: carine
Sounds like you didn't trim your roast beforehand, which is probably what saved the day for you!
Hi all, Just cooked my first prime rib roast for this Christmas and thankfully it went well. After much internet research, I let the meat come to room temperature for about 4 hours. Was on the fence about sear at 500 F first and then turn off oven to cook or go low and slow and sear at the end. I kind of compromised. We had prepared most sides ahead of time like twice baked potatoes, homemade mac n cheese, etc. Also there were things like frozen chicken tenders and shrimp poppers for the kids that weren't going to do prime rib that also needed to be baked.So near meal time there would be about a half hour of baking sides at 350 F. So either way would have worked since the roast needs to rest for 30 minutes after cooking but since this was my first prime rib roast and the majority of my company was more on the medium side than the rare side I decided to sear first and then cook at 325 F for as long as it took so if needed I could put other dishes in the oven with the roast towards the end.
It was a 12.65 lb 5 rib prime rib from the local butcher intended to feed 9 people. I rubbed it with EVO olive oil and encrusted with kosher salt and a three variety peppercorn mix. I seared at 500 F for 17 minutes and then reduced to 325 F. Put it in at 2:30 and dinner was to be at 6pm. Set my meat timer for 125 F since the majority of my company is not big on very rare meat.
A little before 5pm the internal temp was around 110 and rising fairly quickly so I set my oven back to it's lowest setting of 170 F. It hit 125 F right at 5:30 and I pulled it out and tented it in foil. It actually ended up rising to 137 F which was more than I expected but it worked out perfectly. Both ends were between medium rare and medium and working its way towards the center was rare to medium rare. I don't know if that means that the roast was not room temperature all the way through when I started but it ended up being exactly what I wanted. I was originally going to cut the roast into 2 sections so I could have a medium rare piece and a more medium piece but that just seemed above my pay grade.
For an au jus, I drained all but a 2 or 3 tablespoons of the fat drippings out of the roast pan, stirred in a couple of tablespoons of flour and a 24 oz container of beef stock broth and stirred and reduced on high on the range for 10 minutes till it thickened a bit. To me the au jus seemed a bit too salty though my son and others said they liked it. I also made a horseradish sauce with 1 part horseradish to three parts sour cream and 1/2 part dijon mustard.
Anyway, I don't know if I made prime rib the absolute best way but it was very tender and tasty and got lots of compliments. And the excess drippings and stray pieces of fat were very much appreciated by my two dogs when mixed into their dry food :-) .
Cheers and Merry Christmas!
re: Squiggy1
That's a very nice report and it's always great to hear a roast was enjoyed by all, especially the pooches....thanks for sharing.
Anyway, I don't know if I made prime rib the absolute best way but it was very tender and tasty and got lots of compliments. And the excess drippings and stray pieces of fat were very much appreciated by my two dogs when mixed into their dry food :-) ....
Sounds perfect to me.
re: Squiggy1
Next time, try dropping one part of mayonaise into your usual mix-FANTASTIC!
re: foodie06
Thanks for the suggestion and for sharing.
We cooked a slightly over 5 pound roast yesterday. Turned out perfectly. I would say the biggest factor was checking the accuracy of our temperature probe, which we found to be off by 15 degrees! No wonder the prime rib I cooked after Thanksgiving was overdone!
We cooked it by first roasting at 450 degrees F for about 20-30 minutes, then reducing the temperature to 350 and cooking until the temperature probe read 120. (we like it on the rare side). It took about an hour and 45 minutes total. After resting, the temperature was close to 130, which was a perfect pink all the way through. We really enjoyed it.
re: Michelle
Thanks for the details, specifically the mention of the inaccurate temperature probe...unfortunately for two stories I heard thus far for 2013, it came down to ovens and digital probe thermometers as concerns for poor performance and unexpected problems.
thanks for sharing.
re: fourunder
You get what you pay for. Don't buy a "cheapie" probe, but again, don't go forking out $99.95 for one either.
Best thing to do, is ask your friends what kind of probe THEY are using, and , if they are happy with it, pick one up for yourself!
I had dinner guests who had visibly recoiled once when I served them hanger steak after they said they liked medium rare, it had a beautiful sear and inside was red but warm. So I knew I needed some more well. I did three ribs/seven pounds with S&P at 325 up to 110 and 450 up to about 125. The rest brought the middle up to 130, but the outer cuts were pink but still quite juicy. Everyone was happy. I had a bottle of Archery Summit 2009 PN almost to myself. I was ecstatic. Had it all with roasted potatoes, braised brussel sprouts tossed in balsamic and bacon, and choice of a simple mirepoix and drippings gravy with wine or horseradish and sour cream. I, the hog, tried both.
re: tim irvine
Very nice...thanks for providing the details and sharing.
The prime rib ended up more medium than medium rare, although there were bits of medium rare here and there. Regardless, it had a nice flavor and everyone thoroughly enjoyed it. They even took pictures and posted on Facebook and said they talked about it to everyone at work today.
I really panicked, but Fourunder, thank you so much for your guidance. Without that, I think the roast would have been a disaster. I am so very happy that it wasn't.
I definitely plan to work with other cuts of meat and poultry in the future so that I can do this the correct way.
re: Wtg2Retire
Thanks for coming back and sharing your results....and it was good to hear it was not a disaster. We are always harder on ourselves than need be, so it's nice to hear the the others enjoyed the meal.
I roast everything low and slow @ 200-225* depending on size, Turkey if it is 16+ pounds. The exceptions are Turkey under 16 pounds (275) and Chicken @ 375-450*,. The L & S method works especially well for any Beef, Pork or Veal. Here are some threads I started with similar specific (and easy details) steps and pictures so you can see the results.
If you ever need any help....just give a shout out on these thread or start a similar one like you did last evening for the Prime Rib. The first thread for Chuck roast is one that has received quite a few positive mentions and others have bookmarked it for reference...so I'm told.. In that thread, I had the butcher special cut a 12 pound Chuck/7-Blade for me when it went on sale for under $2.20/lb.. It cost less than $26 and was in the Top Five Roasts I ever made.
Chuck Roast...
Chuck Roast vs. Cross Rib Challenge
Boston Butt, Pork Roast
re: Wtg2Retire
P.S. I put on new thermometer on my shopping list as soon as you had given me instructions on how to save the prime rib. I am still so mad that the one I had quit working.
re: Wtg2Retire
This what you should have....all three cost me less than 25 bucks. Industry standards are Taylor & Cooper.....I purchase Taylor/Tru Temp...I purchased Maverick and Polder in the past and threw them out.
$ 7
$ 5
$ 12
re: fourunder
The one I have is a Cooper. Did find that it has a lifetime warranty, so next Monday, I am going to call them.
But, in the meantime, I am still going to purchase another thermometer. Thanks for the recommendations.
I have to say I'm baffled by all of the drama over a simple roast beef. Ok -- it's expensive, but unless you totally overcook it, it will probably be just fine. And with continuous read digital thermometers selling for a fraction of the price of a decent sized rib roast, there's really no excuse any more to screw it up. Just throw it in the oven at about 325-350 and take it out when the meter reads 120 or so.
re: rjbh20
That's true and clearly you have a nice result...for you.
But let's say you have never roasted any meat before...especially an expensive Prime Rib....you were hosting for a large number of people ....and you did not have a digital probe or instant read thermometer....and you were working in a kitchen where you have never used before and the only thing you knew was where the refrigerator and sink were. People are asking for timing advice and temperature advice on different methods.
Do you really think you would be so smart? There's a little more to it than just throwing the meat in the oven and when someone asks for guidance... thoughtful, helpful people respond and provide. You don't have to participate....your method works fine for you, but it doesn't for me and some others looking to try a different approach. That's why this discussion exists....not for you but others...who would also like to post and share a nice roast result as you have.
re: fourunder
Two words -- Plan. Ahead. Like anything else you've not done before.
re: rjbh20
Isn't reading this thread and asking questions planning ahead.?
re: fourunder
rjbh20 has a point.
I pretty much posted the same cooking thoughts December 26, 2011 on this thread.
Lots of ways to roast a beef but at the end of the day it's all about time and temperature. If you can't measure it, you can't manage it.
re: steve h.
most of the people requesting information are seeking the low and slow approach though....not the one you use. You certainly can have a success any number of ways.
re: fourunder
That's my point.
re: fourunder
Since, by a quick scan, almost all ot the 180-odd posts on this thread were within a day or so of the Big Event and many have an air of desperation, I'd say no.
But relax -- it's just heating up a piece of meat. Pay a minimal amount of attention and use your head and you'll be just fine. Now if you're one of the folks that thinks "oven ready" on your Butterball wrapper means heave it in the oven still in the plastic, this whole cooking dinner thing may not be for you.
re: rjbh20
so the people who read the posts from the day after 2011, were within a day of 2012 that people read prior to Dec. 25th or Dec. 31st......and the same withing a day of the this year's Christmas and upcoming NYE 2013?
Some think that large gray band on your roast is not a sign of a good result...rather an over-cooked deckle...and that's what they are trying to avoid.
re: fourunder
Hmm. Do I have running water and indoor plumbing in this fantasy?
Personally, I would never volunteer to cook any serious and expensive roast in an oven/kitchen that was a complete unknown. Likewise, if you basically don't know what you are doing, using a $100+ piece of meat for you first experiment is pretty brave.
My guess is that one drawback, from the point of view of the inexperienced cook, of the low and slow method is that it is more difficult to predict "how slow?". That is, there is more uncertainty about the timing for coordinating the other dishes.
My own preference is to do my low and slow roasts outdoors over charcoal. Aside from hams, which are just reheating, I have probably cooked fewer than 5 large roasts or turkeys indoors in 35 years.
re: akachochin
As you indicate...timing can be an issue....and a great portion of this country lives in very cold areas at this time of year....compounding the timing issues b having the cold affect the temperature of the smoker. Indoor roasting really doesn't require attention...I would imagine outside smoking does.
As for being brave....that's certainly true and I commend them for trying...inside or outside.
re: fourunder
I have to agree with others. You invest $30-50 on a hunk of meat for a special occasion and can't get a $5 meat thermometer, if not a digital probe/timer? Even on Christmas morning we had one chain of grocery open. They have thermometers.
re: Atochabsh
I'm pretty sure everyone had a thermometer...they just didn't work or work properly.
re: Atochabsh
Seconded! I myself have an old -fashioned "Wheel Gun" Thermometer and that baby hasn't let me down YET!
If you're investing in your meat, then invest in something that will SAVE your meat!
re: rjbh20
rjbh, I did plan ahead. I had a new digital instant read thermometer that had been used only once before. I don't know what happened, but when I used it Wednesday, an error message came up and we never could get it to go away. In other words, it would be cleared, but the moment the probe went into the meat only of the roast, the error message would come up. That is why there was drama on my end.
Good grief, get a life.
re: rjbh20
Do you also do the rest uncovered in the fridge? Just wondering.
re: rjbh20
Oh NO! Don't let your roast reach 120 IN THE OVEN, because when you pull it out to rest, it will continue to cook anywhere from 5-10 degrees MORE! You could have a 130 roast on your hands, when WHAT you meant was 120.
Pull it at 110 and let rest for half an hour. You will be delightfully *surprised* at the results!
If you serve au jus, do you make ahead of time? I'm pondering how to make it without many drippings.
re: fldhkybnva
Was researching just this the other day since I have a rib roast and Yorkshire pudding dinner promised after the new year. If you really want the jus as opposed to the drippings, Kenji published this method: http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/20... Unfortunately, this doesn't help me since I just want the drippings, not the jus. I'm thinking I may just toss some oxtails or fatty ribs into the pan with the roast and use those drippings for the Yorkshire pudding. Anybody tried this or something similar?
re: fldhkybnva
Marrow bones are center cut veal or beef bones that you buy specifically for the marrow, the interior part of the bone. Because of the comparatively recent popularity of marrow (I happen to love the stuff), marrow bones, at least at my butcher, are considerably more expensive than just soup bones, which is I what I think is being called for here. And, yes, I can buy them from my butcher, although I often see them for sale in the supermarket as well.
re: fldhkybnva
marrow bones are readily available in markets, as they are used for beef stock.....and treats for dogs after they have been roasted.
re: fourunder
Indeed! I was juts going to post in response. I decided that homemade beef stock is only appropriate for the jus so picked up a load of marrow bones and oxtails. I'll drain the fat and save it to make the jus and use the roasted bones for stock. Unfortunately, I don't think the cat will be interested but I am tempted to grab a nibble of bone marrow since I've never tried it.
re: JoanN
I'm thinking I may just toss some oxtails or fatty ribs into the pan with the roast and use those drippings for the Yorkshire pudding. Anybody tried this or something similar?
this is often a very common suggestion for both making stock and rendered fat drippings necessary for a proper Yorkshire Pudding.
re: JoanN
I've done fourunder's low and slow approach the last couple of years (Thank you, again, fourunder.)
I've certainly had enough dripping for Yorkshire pudding. In fact, last year the pudding was kind of greasy because I didn't pour off enough of (any of) the fat from the drippings.
This year I did a much better job and the Yorkshire pudding was just as good as the rib roast.
re: mirage
When I took my rib roast out to rest, there were practically no drippings at all. This was with a 4-1/2 pound, two rib roast. There were some drippings after the high-heat blast, but certainly not enough to make Yorkshire pudding. And after the high heat blast, the bit of drippings that had been there originally had now burned. Were you by any chance making a much larger roast? Did you have drippings when you took the roast out to rest? Trying to figure out why you do and I didn't.
re: JoanN
The roasted marrow bones and oxtails worke out well not only for stock but drippings. I have a pot of stock simmering now that smells delicious and a full 16 oz jar full of drippings. I didn't expect that much, and still have 2 more lbs of oxtails I bought in case I needed more drippings. I've been staring at bone marrow biopsies all month under the microscope, I should have probably realized it's full of fat :) I plan to make the jus ahead of time. If there are any drippings from the roast I guess I can add them but don't need them.
I haven't tried the low and slow with rib roast but I have done it with leg of lamb and zero drippings.
re: mirage
Thank you for the kind words and allowing me to be a very small part of your celebrations....it's good to know you have had successes.
re: fourunder
I hope to add to the list next week. It's now a fourunder low and slow twofer-rib roast New Year's Eve and leg of lamb New Year's Day. Earlier this year I loved the low and slow leg of lamb but it was pretty small, so I hope to achieve the same results with a bigger cut.
re: fldhkybnva
Crazy...but I know I made a post to your query earlier this morning ...or was I dreaming. Anyway, what I said was the seriouseats method linked by Joan was an option, but it was an expensive one prrobably 15 bucks just for the bones and meat without consideration to the vegetable and type of wine used.. For a small Roast, I would not do it, but for a crowd, I would if I wanted to wow them....
last night, coincidently, I saw a Guy Fieri episode on the Tomahawh restaurant, a place known for their Yorkshire Pudding, brown Gravy and Jus. They add beef stock to drippings. The Roast Beef is Top Sirlopin, so there are no bones roasted.. They add some folour to the dripping and stock to that. It did look good.
To get the drippings, they roast a whole Topp Butt Sirloin @ 350* to produce the fond and pan dripping...Again, a small amount of flour is added and then beef stock....then reduced.
You could do the same with any cheap beef cut...and save the meat for a soup or other.
re: fourunder
I hate when a post "disappears!" It happens to me all the time :) You are right, it was expensive for the bones of meat and it's only two of us but it was worth the project and learning to make stock. Plus, it can be used for plenty of other meals.
re: fldhkybnva
This isn't a practical solution for everyone, but I'll throw my two cents in...
We do Roasts of some sort all the time. We almost always have a Boneless Rib Eye (no, usually not Prime -- even at Costco prices we can't afford that all the time) dry aging in the fridge, or something similar, and we just carve steaks or small roasts off it as it ages and do those regularly.
So there are always scraps of uneaten stuff left over (gristle, fat, dry trimmings from the aging, stuff from kids who decided they really wanted cereal for dinner), and if they're not very distinctively flavored, as in from the BBQ Grill or Smoked or with a very pronounced ethnic flavor -- i.e. they just taste like Beef -- they all go the freezer in Ziplocs. In addition to this, I'm always on the lookout for Beef Back Ribs, which I also do all the time using the Fourunder method in the oven, and those bones get saved up as well.
So the point of all this is when you get a few bags saved up you can make a nice stock with the scraps, bones and fat and end up with a good Jus base as well as plenty of drippings for Yorkshire puddings and the like. You can brown up everything in the Oven with some onions (or all your saved onion skins and trimmings -- you are saving all of those too, aren't you?) or you don't have to add this step if you don't feel like it.
I do this all the time on a weekend while the game (any game; it doesn't matter) is on and so I always have the makings for soup, gravy, Jus, whatever, handy. I do the scraps and fat first in the pressure cooker and strain them out before I do the onions and the bones. Guess why the dogs love me.
re: acgold7
Thanks, I do that with chicken parts so it makes sense to do it with beef parts as well. Just a random question - for the make ahead jus can I just saute the drippings with whatever herbs, garlic, onions, etc, add the broth and/or wine, simmer to reduce and store?
re: fldhkybnva
Sure, absolutely. Store in the freezer or pressure can and store in canning jars.
re: acgold7
That's all great information...thanks for the post.
re: fldhkybnva
Lipton Onion Soup Mix! They will NEVER know the difference!
re: skyy38
I would. But I would be too polite to say so as a guest.
re: fldhkybnva
Every year I save my scraps and bones from my rib roast and made stock with them and freeze it. The next year I thaw it and make my jus (NOT "au jus") with it.
Recipe: Stock from last years roast, pan drippings from this year (if any), granulated garlic (better than fresh here for some odd reason), S&P, and soy sauce.
This is an odd recipe, but it emulates steakhouse jus very nicely.
re: sandylc
Thanks, Sandy. Have saved your instructions for jus. Great info.
While I don't use jus myself, some of my younger guest would have liked some, so now I have a way of making jus for them next time I do a prime rib.
I'm not sure what time I'll be home tomorrow from work to get the roast out of the fridge before roasting. Do you find that setting it out at room temperature for several hours makes a big difference? Would you recommend longer than an hour?
re: fldhkybnva
This time of year, my basement never gets above 56 degrees. I'll leave it there overnight if need be. I have no problem leaving meat outside of the fridge for 4+ hours.....like if I got up in the morning and put it out for an evening roast I would place in the oven at 11-12
There's opinions that it doesn't require any need to be brought up closer to room temperature....and I can see it from a position if you like your meat RARE, or if it is a SMALLER roast under 6 pounds.
The initial 450 blast for 10-15 minutes really does bring the roast's internal temperature up quite quickly....but again, I just like the idea of doing everything slowly...even if it is only for my own head.
worse case scenario is it takes 30-60 minutes to hit your target temperature if you skip the initial 450 blast....or sear on the stove-top.
re: fourunder
Thanks it's a 2 rib so agogkd be fine. Another stupid question sorry to annoy now that everyone has moved on from rib roasts. I'm planning to make potatoes that roast at 450-475F so plan to roast, let rest in oven an hour, then on the counter while I roast the potatoes. You recommend a rewarming at 250F and a blast but how do sides work during that time?
re: fldhkybnva
For an hour rest, I would probably only do a short 8 minute blast. The roast will not lose much internal heat if covered....The 250 warm-up will not increase any temperature. ...the high heat blast is sufficient to bring it to a pleasant serving temperature....The one caution is not to heat it too long with the blast, as it will increase the internal temperature of the roast and it will bleed.
re: fourunder
Ill probably rest 2 hours since I'll likely be home early. Can I skip the 250 warm and stick it in at 450 when the potatoes are done or does it need the warming?
re: fldhkybnva
I recently did two tests on a 2-Rib roast leftover from christmas. The Roast was split in half to make equal sized portions, or one rib each. The first rib was reheated at 225 for an hour and it made no noticeable heat increase to change the temperature after an hour. the internal temperature of the meat was 105....The second piece warmed at 250, brought the piece of meat up to 116 after the same one hour period.
This suggests to me that the rise in temeprature will not be that great, even at using 450 for a short amount fo time....now what is the recommended time?..I really can't answer that, as I have never done so, but my best guess would be to first see what the internal temperature is after the 2 hour rest. I would not be concerned with putting any char on the meat. If you want a crust, sear it on the stove.....but if you use the oven, I would thing 10-15 minutes would be suffice. Any more, than the juices will run hot, which defeats the purpose of the 2 hour rest you have patiently applied....Keep an eye on the digital probe...it the temperatre starts to rise quickly, then the meat is cooking again. The needle should't go more than a few degrees from the final holding temperature, if at all.
If you are not concerned about a slightly greay outer edge, You could probably control the formation of the crust easier in a fry pan on the stove.. You won't cook up the roast, just the outer edge....Medium high heat, just like searing....no more than 60 seconds each side.
re: fourunder
OK, thanks. I'm home early so my plan is
1. Let it sit on the counter for several hours while I work up a bigger appetite
2. Sear 1 minute per side
3. Roast at 225F to 118F
4. Let rest in the oven at 140F for an hour or two, depending on time
5. Remove from oven
6. Turn up oven to 450F and finish sides (45min to 1 hr)
7. Heat roast with a final blast for 10 minutes or so
8. Carve and eat!
re: fldhkybnva
To quote George Peppard....I love it when a plan comes together...
re: fourunder
Thanks and have a very Happy New Year! I'm looking forward to dinner :)
re: fldhkybnva
Its better to let it thaw in the fridge a few hours ahead of time so you have less chance of over or under cooking the
roast. Then it should cook for about 1hr 45 min at 375-400°
re: simonesmudde123
It's already thawed, never been frozen just in the fridge.
re: simonesmudde123
Then it should cook for about 1hr 45 min at 375-400°
Unless mistaken, <fidhkybnva> is using the low and slow approach, not high heat.
Help!! My father is INSISTING that the small boneless ribeye roast that we are making (3.75 lbs) HAS TO BE FLOURED! He has NEVER cooked one before, however I HAVE...without flour! Looks like I'll just stay home tonight and eat Raemen Noodles lol. Has anyone heard of flouring the roast prior to cooking it?
re: suzymazz
It's quite common to flour a roast....generally, it's a Pot Roast, as it helps in developing the gravy from the braising liquid.
When it comes to dry roasting in the oven...there are recipes that call for Seasoned Flour to be applied to a roast, as it helps develop an outside crust on the roast.
I do not flour my roasts either.
re: fourunder
Thanks, fourunder! I am going to compromise and put a tad of flour on it over the salt and pepper. When he isn't looking, I may pat most of it off. ;) He's 80 and my mom did all the cooking but has since passed. I will definitely slow roast that lil thang since it's so tiny. I may blast it after it has rested in case it doesn't crust because it won't take very long at all. I'm thinking 15 min a pound at 225-250 at MOST! He's used to my mom cooking a much larger roast which gives the flour time to crust over. Either way, it's better than Raemen noodles! Happy New Year!
re: suzymazz
The one thing I would caution you regarding the flour crust is it may burn with the high heat blast if it does not absorb enough fat from roasting.....and if you intend to use a granulated or powdered garlic, the garlic may become bitter with the high heat blast..
If you are not opposed, you may want to ask POPS if he is opposed to an addition to the flour for the outer crust. some popular ones are:
* Horseradish
* Fresh Garlic Paste
* Fresh/Dried Herbs
* Kosher Salt/Herb
* Mustard
* Panko
re: fourunder
Thanks! I will check the thickness of the fat cap to see if it is ample enough to help my Pop's flour lol! If not, I will try to add something from above. I may brush it with olive oil prior to the flour to help it out a bit. I am sooooo against doing this, but he is insisting and I'm sick of fighting a losing battle. I'm using as very little flour as is humanly possible. I actually have a pan searing flour that has sea salt in it, now that I think about it! I will use that instead! Yay!
re: suzymazz
Good solutions....You have won the battle.
the battles at my table are never as easy to resolve....others want the meat cooked above medium.
Many routes will take you to the same destination. In cooking I look for the best results first, and then the easiest way to get there. I've used this method to cook over 50 roast and it has worked flawlessly for me every time. I don't doubt you can get great results using the high heat method but why? More work, too many variables and a better chance for something to go wrong. If you're like me you're mutitasking in the kitchen and changing temperatures on your oven is just another thing you have to remember to do. I've been using this method for the last couple of years. This is from "Cooks Ilustrated"
The only thing that was different than what I use to do is the precooking part about keeping in the fridge for a day or more. It does make a big difference in the crust. It made my prime roast go from being very good to as good or better than any steak house prime rib I've had. Note: at the bottom of the instructions not copied they mention that commercial steak house's use a cooking torch instead of searing in a pan . I had one so I used it and I prefer this method. Can't say if the finish product is that much better, but I find it easier and quicker to evenly sear the fat without cooking the meat and I don't have to clean a skillet.
From "Cooks Ilustrated" Published November 1, 2011.
1 (7-pound) first-cut beef standing rib roast (3 bones), meat removed from bones, bones reserved
Kosher salt and ground black pepper
2 teaspoons vegetable oil
1. Using sharp knife, cut slits in surface layer of fat, spaced 1 inch apart, in crosshatch pattern, being careful to cut down to, but not into, meat. Rub 2 tablespoons salt over entire roast and into slits. Place meat back on bones (to save space in refrigerator), transfer to large plate, and refrigerate, uncovered, at least 24 hours and up to 96 hours.
2. Adjust oven rack to middle position and heat oven to 200 degrees. Heat oil in 12-inch skillet over high heat until just smoking. Sear sides and top of roast (reserving bone) until browned, 6 to 8 minutes total (do not sear side where roast was cut from bone). Place meat back on ribs, so bones fit where they were cut, and let cool for 10 minutes; tie meat to bones with 2 lengths of twine between ribs. Transfer roast, fat side up, to wire rack set in rimmed baking sheet and season with pepper. Roast until meat registers 110 degrees, 3 to 4 hours.
3. Turn off oven; leave roast in oven, opening door as little as possible, until meat registers about 120 degrees for rare or about 125 degrees for medium-rare, 30 to 75 minutes longer.
4. Remove roast from oven (leave roast on baking sheet), tent loosely with aluminum foil, and let rest for at least 30 minutes and up to 75 minutes.
5. Adjust oven rack about 8 inches from broiler element and heat broiler. Remove foil from roast, form into 3-inch ball, and place under ribs to elevate fat cap. Broil until top of roast is well browned and crisp, 2 to 8 minutes.
6. Transfer roast to carving board; cut twine and remove roast from ribs. Slice meat into 3/4-inch-thick slices. Season with coarse salt to taste, and serve
re: frankfic
Thanks for the great report and posting.
Back to report on another low and slow success! Thanks for all of the suggestions and tips fourunder and all of the feedback others that prefer the low temperature roast method. I had to put the roast in the back of the fridge so I could stop eating it it was so good and cooked nearly perfectly to my liking.
Cliffs Notes -
-2 bone roast 3.6lbs
-Uncovered in fridge x 3 days
-Seasoned x 1 day (at this point the roast was looked really dried out but I didn't bother to trim and had no issues eating an end cut)
-Left at room temperature for 3 hours
-Sear 1 minute per side
-Roasted at 225F for 2 hrs, 45 minutes to 120F
-Rest 1 hour in oven at 170F with door open (temperature up to 127-128F
-Removed from oven, wrapped tightly in multiple layers of foil, thick towel and ceramic bowl for 1 hour
-At 1 hour, temperature was 125F
-In the oven 450F for 5 minutes (probably unnecessary but had some wiggle room with the final temperature)
-Carved and served, very minimal bleeding. I just went back for 2nd...and 3rd..helpings and no bleeding in the foil it's wrapped in either
Only improvements - 1) I thought the roast I pointed to was the chuck end but the butcher apparently cut the small end so next time I'll be sure to get the large end of the roast as I prefer more spinalis muscle, 2) the edges were a bit too salty though admittedly really good.
Thanks again! Up next - low and slow leg of lamb tomorrow morning
re: fldhkybnva
Beautiful roast and very nice job.....no more advice for you....
re: fourunder
Thanks! I appreciate all of your help, I think I'm getting the hang of it. I hope the lamb turns out as well.
Christmas 2013.
This year was a slight Challenge, as the guest count kept climbing and i would only have access to one oven to cook "
3-Rib CAB Choice....Chuck End, 7.5 pounds, target 130*
4-Rib Choice.....Chuck End, 7.3 pounds, target 135*
2-Rib Choice....Chuck End, 4.4 pounds, target 127*
Leg of Lamb, Aged 30 Days, 6.5 pounds, target 125*
Dinner was planned for 3PM. The challenge was to have all the meat finished for 1:00PM. Since I only had access to one oven, I decided to roast the 3 & 4 Rib roasts and the Lamb first @ 8:00AM and add the smaller 2-Rib roast a couple of hours later @ 10 AM. I selected 200* as the roasting temperature.
All the meat hit target temperatures at my anticipated time between 12:30 and 1:00PM. the meat was held for my customary 2+ hours. During the Final High Heat Blast, the 4-Rib Roast unexpectedly bled when sliced....but the meat was still pretty good and everyone enjoyed it. The Leg of Lamb stole the show for a few.....I refused to cook it past Medium-Rare, but my SIL complained and said I was discriminating against her preference for meat cooked to death. I sliced off a piece for me and my niece(her daughter), then stuck the meat back in for a little further cooking. Everyone was happy.
Christmas 2013.
This year was a slight Challenge, as the guest count kept climbing and i would only have access to one oven to cook "
3-Rib CAB Choice....Chuck End, 7.5 pounds, target 130*
4-Rib Choice.....Chuck End, 7.3 pounds, target 135*
2-Rib Choice....Chuck End, 4.4 pounds, target 127*
Leg of Lamb, Aged 30 Days, 6.5 pounds, target 125*
Dinner was planned for 3PM. The challenge was to have all the meat finished for 1:00PM. Since I only had access to one oven, I decided to roast the 3 & 4 Rib roasts and the Lamb first @ 8:00AM and add the smaller 2-Rib roast a couple of hours later @ 10 AM. I selected 200* as the roasting temperature.
All the meat hit target temperatures at my anticipated time between 12:30 and 1:00PM. the meat was held for my customary 2+ hours. During the Final High Heat Blast, the 4-Rib Roast unexpectedly bled when sliced....but the meat was still pretty good and everyone enjoyed it. The Leg of Lamb stole the show for a few.....I refused to cook it past Medium-Rare, but my SIL complained and said I was discriminating against her preference for meat cooked to death. I sliced off a piece for me and my niece(her daughter), then stuck the meat back in for a little further cooking. Everyone was happy.
Thank you fourunder for turning us to this low and slow technique. Our 5.5 pound rib roast was devoured within minutes. The meat was so tender you could cut it with a fork. Can we use this same technique for a pork roast? I don't want to make pulled pork. I still want to be able to slice into it but be able to get the meat to have the same melting tenderness as the rib roast. TIA!
re: foodeenj
Thanks for the kind words and it's nice to hear of another success.
With regards to pork roast, with the exception of Tenderloin, low and slow is the only way to go in my book...which guarantees moist and tender meat. I favor 225* for my thermostat setting for Loins, Shoulders and Fresh Hams. I'll add a few threads I started in the past for your to review, but if you have any specific queries, just ask and I can follow up on the included threads or here.
The First thread is for Porchetta made with various cuts of Pork Belly, Loin and or Shoulder. The Second thread is for a Boneless Boston Butt.
With due respect to my Chowhound friend (acgold7) who favors 150* for his finished temperatures for some pork roast....I would suggest you go higher at least to 160* degrees as your target temperature if there is a bone in the roast. The Carryover effect will bring it to 170*, which many will recommend as the temperature needed to make the meat slice able....but I would disagree and say otherwise. What you could do its test a piece of the meat to see if you like it at 150 and again at 160 to see which you prefer. You don't need to slice, just tug off a piece. You won't lose any juices,
Boneless Boston Butt:
Pork Belly:
Steamship of Pork, a k a, Fresh Ham:
re: fourunder
We just this week did a bone in Center Cut Pork Loin (aka Prime Rib of Pork; $3.99/lb. at Costco, yeah baby) and did it the exact same way, basically. I used my Alto-Shaam cookbook as a guide and cooked at 250F until the probe reached 140, then removed from oven and held there while we turned the oven down to a holding temp of 160F, then returned to the oven once the oven had reached the holding temp and held for two hours (more is fine). We did do the final high-heat blast to crisp up the outside but it wasn't really necessary, about 5 min at 375-400.
Final temp was actually about 160F, which is fine if you sneak up on it this way. Meat was soft and silky but sliceable and shockingly juicy.
This was a bit of a hybrid technique as A-S recommends you probe to 120F and then hold without the removing and external hold, but their recipes are designed for unattended overnight cooking.
Oh, by the way... you know how you can wet-age beef for weeks in the cryo and it just gets better? Yeah, not so much with pork. You really need to use or freeze by the recommended date on the package. I know you know that but for anyone else....
re: acgold7
I actually did not consider a rack of pork in my initial comments, but I did for a Rib Roast. I would agree on 140 for the rack...but the Rib Roast is always raw or bloody unless I go to the higher 160.
Did you get the rack roast from Costco....or did you French it yourself? Sterling Silver offers it and my local market carries it around the holidays...but I feel gypped losing the meat on the bone.
re: fourunder
Nah, Costco in the cryo, and I never French it. Why waste all that good meat and fun chewin'? This was just basically a Standing Rib, not like a Frenched Rack.
When you carve it, it's Pork Chops, it's Roast Pork, it's Baby Back Ribs all in one... the perfect meal!
I have in the past pulled as low as 140 and I agree it's still a little... translucent at that point. A-S recommends 155-165 and I'd say maybe about 150-160 is fine for me.
re: fourunder
Thank you so much, fourunder! I I will be making the porchetta and will report back with the results. Looking at the photos, I can't wait!
re: foodeenj
very nice....I do not recall where I saw the tip here on chowhound, but to make it easier to slice after it's finished, you can gently pre-score through the skin at .75-1 inch intervals....which I have not yet tried, but make good sense for very hard skin. I always used the lines created by the strings used to tie the roast off as a general guide, but I am certainly going to give the score a try.
I'll try to find the suggestion when I get some time.
re: fourunder
When I do Will Owen's pork shoulder, my preference is to do it the day before and refrigerate so I can easily lift off the fat. At that point I can slice it and have reheated it in the slow cooker.
re: c oliver
I have yet to give that recipe a try....but I generally don't do the next day reheat thing...other than for leftovers....or in the past in a restaurant environment. I simply skim or pour off....but I never get fancy with ingredients, as I like to keep the meat separate mostly.
re: fourunder
The recipe is quite simple and it's all about the meat. Since it cooks to about 180 it's pretty much impossible to slice at that point. And it does produce a LOT of fat so, for me, it's a win-win. When I have time.
Hi Fourunder, I am making my pork shoulder roast now and the temperature is going up a lot quicker than I expected. I have a five pound shoulder that I browned for 15 minutes at 500 and is now cooking at 200 degrees. After just an hour, the temp has already hit 90 degrees. Is it okay if the roast sits for four hours instead of just two? What is the best way to warm it up? Thanks.