text:
I don't understand what you're trying to get at.
Are you trying to figure out the specific avoidance penalty per level?
As in, "When a mob is x levels above me, reduce my avoidance by x*c, where c is the penalty per level."
I've posted a question on the official forums about this, which you can find here, but I'm linking it here for our US numbercrunching friends as well.
I have yet to find any WotLK evidence of either case, so I'm currently clueless as to which way it should be. 415 baseline defense sounds the most logical (easier to program & can be ported to PvP with e.g. 399 defense skills etc.), but I can niether prove that theory, as I can disprove the current 0.6% theory.
Any thoughts/suggestions/help?
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
I don't understand what you're trying to get at.
Are you trying to figure out the specific avoidance penalty per level?
As in, "When a mob is x levels above me, reduce my avoidance by x*c, where c is the penalty per level."
I am not sure I understand what you are trying to figure out.
Also, the whole "no one questioned the -0.2% per level" is actually wrong. People spent all kinds of time testing that back in TBC and some were rumored to have before TBC. I know I personally spent a ton of time with Prince parses (yay for dual wielding for data collection) and adjusting my avoidance levels. -0.6 was spot on.
What changes do you think diminishing returns have on that? Those values are pre rating and pre rating values are not affected by DR (unless you are asserting those pre rating values are indeed the only ones that are).
What are you trying to figure out, exactly?
PS: This isn't a knock at you. I just am trying to figure out what it is you disagree with exactly and how DR fits into that. It wasn't very clear from either post.
Last edited by jere; 10-24-2009 at 02:30 PM.
The paper doll numbers assume your target has a weapon skill equal to 5*level
The level difference was/is worth exactly 15 weapon skill.
Up untill tBC 15 defense was spot on 0,6% avoidances.
Defense bonuses to avoidances are 0 if you have a defense skill equal to the attackers weapon skill.
Because defense was always equal to a certain amount of defense, no test in tBC could see the difference between adding a -0,6% avoidance penalty or a -15 defense penalty.
In other words, you could use 2 formulas for the defense gain on an avoidance:
0.04% * (defense - 400) - 0.2% * (your level - attacker level)
0.04% * (defense - 5 * attacker weapon skill)
Both formula's were equal in tBC. But now with diminishing returns, the 0.04% * (...) part is now subject to diminshing returns, while the bold part in the first formula is not.
But I have yet to see any WotLK numbers for either formula.
That's really what I want to know.
Last edited by Airowird; 10-25-2009 at 04:59 AM. Reason: Spilleng
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
I am pretty sure bosses are not subject to diminishing returns. The loss of avoidance isn't calculated as a loss from you. It is calculated as a gain for the boss. Plus, the 0.04% is subject to DR when talking about our gain, but the loss (or penalty) doesn't come from defense), it comes from the bosses weapon skill which is not subject to DR as of yet.
Think of it like this: Is our expertise skill (which is the replacement for our weapon skill on gear) subject to diminishing returns? If so, then the penalty would be. If not, the penalty would not. The bosses ability to negate your avoidance isn't subject to your avoidance DR.
That makes sense yes, sorta.
I'm aware that Expertise does have Diminishing Returns, but on the other hand, it does not negate Block chance or misses like Weapon skill, nor does it reduce Dodge/Parry in the same fractions as Weapon Skill.
But nothing of that really matters unless there is actual evidence to back it up. And so far I've yet to see evidence to support either (in WotLK).
Perhaps the clearest way to know is to check combat stats for % of misses, as those have the biggest diminishing returns. E.g. if someone has an Anub adds tanking log without defense rating procs and can tell us his exact defense for that fight, then it should give us some actual data to work with.
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
It seems like you're thinking about this backwards. It's not a penalty at all, for anyone, and diminishing returns has nothing to do with it.
Diminishing returns has to do with avoidance skill you get from avoidance rating. It has absolutely nothing to do with effective avoidance you get from your baseline stats, and that's what's at play here.
It works out like this:
A boss has 415 weapon skill. A level 80 player has 400 base defense skill. Because the boss has extra weapon skill compared to the player's base defense skill, he reduces the player's chance to dodge/parry/miss/block by .6% each. (he also gains .6% chance to crit as well, which is why the crit minimum needed is 5.6%)
Now, when the player increases his defense skill, he's gaining avoidance that is subject to diminishing returns, but that's AFTER the boss gets the bonus to the combat table from the level difference. Diminishing returns doesn't matter in the least.
The reason It's said players have a .6% reduction per stat against a boss is because the paperdoll displays your avoidance against a level 80 character, so you must adjust for a boss. In other words, the avoidance "penalty" isn't a penalty at all, it's just accounting for the displayed avoidance vs. a level 80 character and adjusting for the initial combat table against a boss.
To summarize: boss stats aren't subject to diminishing returns because they're not getting their stats from rating on gear, they are the base stats that they get from their level. That's where the avoidance "penalty" comes from, it happens before diminishing returns do anything at all.
Let's try this again:
There is an avoidance correction on bosses.
This correction has been tested in tBC (and maybe vanilla, not sure) and was proven at that time to be -0.6% for each avoidance. At that point 0.6% of each avoidance was worth 15 defense and the other way around.
At the same time it was also tested that weapon skill of equal value countered defense, easily proven by the old weapon skill racials.
This is all from years ago and has been tested tons of times, so I think we're agreeing on that being correct, right?
Now you're telling me that in WotLK, avoidance is first calculated, and then has this correction added to it SEPARATE from the part where the diminishing returns are calculated upon. I'm simply asking why this correction can't be part of the diminishing returns. Do you have any proof that it's still exactly 0.6% avoidance reduction vs a boss? Or is it possible that the 'base' defense after which diminishing returns start to kick in is actually 415, the boss' weapon skill level rather than 400 = 5 * your level?
The problem I have is that while everyone keeps hammering on that 0.6% avoidances, I've yet to see any actual data on it. People don't even know if this number is based purely on the level difference or the weapon skill vs defense difference!! I don't even know if defense reductions below 400 (thus negative defense gain from rating/buffs, such as Thorim) are linear or following the DR formula as well!! Maybe that's not something most tanksthink about, but it's exactly those numbers outside our regular scope that can provide us an extra insight into the formulas we DO rely on most of the time.
The biggest importance here would ofc be the 'unhittable' sets for anub, although there could be other fights in the future where such a difference could prove to be important.
Edit: example
Total Dodge chance subject to DR is 20.6%
DR formula applied gives 18.11%, minus 0.6% gives total of 17.51%
In the other possiblity, Dodge subject to DR is 20.6% - 0.6% = 20%
DR formula applied gives 17.66%, an increase of 0.15%
Perhaps not a world-changing number, but imo more than big enough to matter.
PS: It's safe to assume crit reduction does not have DR, or we would've noticed it by now. Perhaps there is irony in the fact that while one of the two 'avoidance' stats that can only be gained through defense has no DR, while the other (miss chance) has the steepest DR of all.
Last edited by Airowird; 10-25-2009 at 05:07 PM.
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
I think I can settle this, though obviously not with 100% certainty since we've not actually decoded WoW.
The game calculates a base comparison between attacker and defender (regardless of which is computer or player): Weapon Skill vs Defense Skill.
For players we can no longer change our weapon skill, but as tanks we increase our defense skill through defense rating (until Clysm anyway). The computer only uses set Weapon and Defense skills based on level. This is the baseline mind you.
So, since you're talking about the computer attacking you, the comparison would be your defense vs the boss' weapon skill (415 for a Raid boss/lvl 83). The comparison is the baseline, so your avoidance from defense is calculated on the remainder.
If you have 540 defense skill, then the defense difference is 125 and you go from there with calculations.
Looking it in terms of an avoidance "penalty" is slightly misleading, as there is no reduction or scalar, it's just a shift in the baseline difference. So, you can think of it as a reduction before diminishing returns, it is always that constant 0.2% per 5 pts difference to miss/dodge/parry/block granted by defense skill (note: not rating).
If you're concerned with reaching that 'unhittable' mark, it is sufficient to use the macros and get your total miss+dodge+parry+block chance to 100% + 0.8%/lvl difference (101.6% for heroic Anub adds).
Crit reduction does not face diminishing returns, and miss, logically, has the lowest cap as it is constantly available (meaning positioning, casting, etc will not remove your chance to be missed). I'm not sure why you think Dodge and Parry from defense don't have diminishing returns, Blizz said, point blank in WotLK beta period, that they do.
The standard disclaimer is that a great deal of what we do with this game mechanic formula work is things that we've either been granted a glimpse at, or deciphered. Blizz intentionally, rarely shows or tells us what is actually going on. Because of that there is always room for error on our end. The other side of it is that the game is written by programmers to be used in an online application. It is in the programmers interest to keep things simple and straight forward to make the game most easily playable and run smoothly. Because of that, much of our models are influenced by people savvy to programming so they can tell what is an unnecessary abstraction or an unlikely method of coding.
A bigger issue here is, whether or not it is dead-on 100% accurate, if there's a small factor of divergence from the real code, will you ever actually see the difference? These formulae are working for people applying the theory right now. Do you have good cause to question it? Data? Evidence?
The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
I'll start with the origin of my question:
While building up the formulas for my spreadsheet I'm taking a relatively scientific approach. I am verifying all formulas I'm implementing for 3.2 accuracy, just to make sure I won't have to do twice the work and change them later on.
To explain the no DR on Dodge/Parry, I was pointing towards the Defense below 400, or baseline, as you refer to it, but I'll leave that out for now.
The thing you need to explain though is;
At first, you're saying that 415 is the baseline 0-gain level. All defense beyond that point is used for the gain to avoidances. So for a tank with 540 defense you get 125 defense or 5% dodge, which is then diminished.
But two paragraphs later, you seem to insinuate that rather than using a 415 baseline, you should use a 400 baseline (the paper doll one), and only once diminishing returns have been calculated, add the level difference.
Or to use the names used here, where do you account for the 0.6% avoidance from the level difference, on A or on Ad ?
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
Oh, no sorry, you misunderstand.
Your character sheet displays stats comparing your defense skill to a weapon skill of equal level. So if you're going by those numbers, that's where you remove the 0.2% from each stat influenced by defense per level of difference.
The game calculates based on the difference. 5% is the base value (not affected by diminishing returns) for each stat, so when your defense skill equals the attackers weapon skill, that is the base values (that still aren't affected by diminishing returns). If the target is 3 levels higher than you, it is your defense skill vs the new weapon skill (415), so you can erode that 5% of non-diminishable value by 0.2% per level difference, or 0.6% per stat then. All of this is before considering defense rating. Add defense rating inflates your defense skill and starts building you back up. If you had sufficient defense skill to bump you to 415 defense you'd just about counter that loss and be break-even at 5% but the earning back from defense rating is subject to diminishing returns for miss, dodge, and parry, so even at the very beginning of the curve it won't quite be parity (1:1).
Short answer to your question, the 0.2% reduction to miss, dodge, parry, and block chance from level difference is neither subject to, nor affects diminishing returns on your avoidance values.
And in terms of A or Ad, neither. A is your avoidance from ratings before diminishing, Ad is the avoidance after diminishing. This affects your "naked" stats, the stuff that doesn't enter into the diminishing equation.
The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
So in other words, against a boss you say I should get:
5% + talent + DR(avoidance from gear) - 0.6%
with DR(x) being the diminishing returns formula applied to x
I understand that all fine, but what you still haven't explained is;
How do you KNOW, that that 0.6% is not subject to diminishing returns as well?
Is there any WotLK test data I was unable to find proving this 0.6% is not part of the diminishing returns? Because so far I've only been able to get everyone to explain to me how the formula works, but not why that formula is the correct one and others aren't.
If I play the role of an extreme sceptic I could simply state here that the formula should be;
5% + talent + DR(avoidance from gear - 0.6%)
because defense rating on gear gives defense, which is added to the 400 innate from level you (should) have and after substracting the attackers weapon skill, you get the value which you need to multiply with 0.04% and add to the avoidance you get from other ratings, and apply diminishing returns on that.
There ya go, that's a simple formula, with a somewhat plausible explanation. Now you're telling me that I'm wrong and I could simply quote you backYou say the formulae are working, but in the spirit of scientific scepticism I could say; Why should I take your word for it? What testing has been done to find out if this level difference thingy is added on the DR or not? What speaks in favor of the first formula other than the fact that more (famous) people think it is correct?Do you have good cause to question it? Data? Evidence?
An example:
With 700 Defense (something close to your average unhittable set I presume), you tell me that the chance to be missed by a boss is 18.92%. I just want to know why this can't be 19.48%, adding the 0.6% into the DR formula. I'm not familiar with any online combat log parser that also shows the tanks defense at that time, nor do I trust Armory to show people in the gear setup they used, so I can't really find any evidence unless someone goes out, gets swung at tons of times & says: Here is my data, here is my defense, see what formula is the best approximation and stop the discussion already!
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
No, I haven't done, or seen testing specifically from WotLK to show that is still the case.
The understanding was developed during BC, yes, and tested to prove it's consistency, which is what gave cause to the understanding that it is a root change, a baseline change in the formula. There has been no reason to question that changing in WotLK because of that concept of how it works.
And, I'd adjust your formula as follows:
5% (base) - (0.2% * attacker level) + talent% + (diminished avoidance from ratings)
So, there are two points we can go from here (other than trolling EJ or other sites to see if anyone has actually tested it):
Do you have reason to believe that this is not the way it works? Do you have reason to not accept the concept that this is a baseline application to defense skill vs weapon skill (which are not subject to diminishing returns)? If you don't think it's coded that way, that's fine, we just have to find a way to test it, but there's nothing that has changed from BC to WotLK that we have any indication, evidence, or bulletin about that would reasonably change that, so this would be working to find a stealth change, or a change to something we don't/didn't understand.
At that, is it wildly important that you figure out if it is the case? Where is it applied currently? Heroic Anub add tanking "unhittable" tank gear sets? If the 0.2% is subject to diminishing returns where is it in the math/coding/game mechanics? If it is subject to diminishing returns, how much will they change that value?
Most of our game theory is built on suppositions, we don't "know" that it is the actual case, but it is sufficient to say it is a best guess until tested and disproven. Please do post up if you find someone who has tested it, or if you do some testing yourself. I'd be interested to know if the concept I've been using for years is not actually the case any more.
The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
And if that doesn't make sense;
Naked Agility is not affected by diminishing returns, but agi from gear is.
And that's not even a universal base, every race has a different base there!!
Quite often formulas grow over the years and get adapted as the mindset of the developers change.
Before WotLK, you could calculate avoidance from defense using (your defense - attacker's weapon skill) * 0.04% and it would always be accurate even in PvP.
This formula would require less calculations than (your defense - 5*your level) * 0.04% - (attacker level - your level) * 0.2% especially since you need to add in your level twice.
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
Why did you add the redundant factor in the last equation?
And the question remains, why do you think this doesn't still apply, or are you just looking to question it?
What we're saying is, nothing they've changed that we know about affects the concept we've had from before of how this works.
If you're looking for something more solid than that, it looks like you'll have to find a way to test it.
The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
Your naked defense and your naked dodge are not affected by DR either while defense and dodge from gear are. Nothing inconsistent about that.
The equation you listed would work before WotLK for sure, but that doesn't really change anything. The base values were tested by Whitetooth after WotLK came out and he found that they didn't get affected by DR (and neither did naked values). Now if you think his findings were faulty, then he might still have the data posted up at EJ you could sift through to help you find support for that (though he did clean up the thread a couple of times, so not sure). A lot of us kept up with those results at the time. They looked sound based on the data he collected. I would find it odd though if he were wrong, as the DR equation has been solidly working since it was formalized.
These are the knowns:
1. The -0.6% was determined back in Classic wow as the difference between base weapon skill and base defense skill for PvE (don't know PvP and PvP is often different). If that has changed, they would have specifically had to do it because nothing they have announced (DR or otherwise) has changed that affects base values. Could it have changed? Maybe, but not likely. Still, there is no harm in testing it if you want.
2. Research was done after WotLK came out that determined that both base and naked values were unaffected by DR. Again, the 0.6% was from base values. It doesn't matter if an earlier equation which had base values in it worked and no longer works now. That equation also had values from gear (which were changed).
I guess the best you can do is test it and see, but really, there is no visible reason to question it at this time. Still doesn't hurt to question it, but nothing we have brought up sheds any doubt on the existing mechanics yet.
If you do want to test it, you need to gear up in a bunch of pvp gear (for high stamina and resil) and have someone heal you as you solo tank a raid boss multiple times (you will need a whole lot of data to verify a delta as small as 0.6%...a whole lot of data). You might be totally right. But really only lots of data will support or disprove it either way.
As a note, I am not saying you are wrong to question it. There just isn't anything so far that would indicate that it could have been changed. So I am just skeptical about being skeptical. Normally, there would need to be some sort of reason to question something.
Still, testing for the sake of testing and re-verifying is still useful stuff. So forgive me if I sounded too negative about it.
Last edited by jere; 10-27-2009 at 01:25 PM.
And you could say I'm questioning it simply because I want to, but on the other hand, I am used to using 0.04% * (defense - attackers weapon skill) in the old tBC formula instead of paper doll - 0.2% * level difference, because both gave the exact same result.
But I'll do some tests later this week if I can find a suitable testing environment.
Compared to tBC, diminishing returns has changed.
I'm assuming you're referring to this thread on EJ?
I tried skimming through the tons of pages of test results there, but I couldn't find any results indicating if the level difference adjustment has to be done on the final number or the number subject to diminishing returns.
Oh, and as test case I'm actually aiming for those giant skeleton guys in Icecrown, they're lvl 82 iirc, which shoul still prove a substantial difference either way on misses if I max out my defense.
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
Yep, those skeles might be good. You just have to make sure not to kill them by accident! I don't recall them having too much HP's


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Hit 8% and Expertise 26 to take dodge off the table; but you don't really need them. Strive for full Combat Table Coverage, don't worry bout hit/expertise.
Ok I am very confused, I have been asking around I just started tanking, and I been asking other paladins do you need hit and expertise and they are telling me no. I have looked at this site and maintankadin and elistest jerk and it all says hit and expertise and if I do what are the caps.
Where do EJ and MTadin say "gear for 8% hit and 26 exp"? They say that for the maximum threat output these caps are necessary, but do not recommend gearing so under "normal" circumstances.
You can tank perfectly well with 0 hit and 0 expertise. In fact, that is something I am trying to get, but there is so much damn expertise and hit on tanking gear >.>
I was wondering if you can look up my characte rin the armory kaleion stormrage and alliance and what I need to improve on him gem was and enchants cause I am trying to get block capped. and thank you for the info on hit and expertise
2/2 Reckoning > Rule of Law (according to Theck's math in Fetzie's guide) if you want to keep WoG
Head: gem full Mastery, reforge Parry > Dodge
Neck: reforge Expertise > Dodge
Cloak: enchant 250 armor, reforge Parry > Dodge
Chest: enchant 55 or 75 stamina, red socket could be parry/mastery reforge Parry > Dodge
Bracers: gem Mastery Chimera's Eye
Gloves: try to upgrade to 65 Mastery, get a Fractured Chimera's Eye in the BS socket, either replace the other one with parry/mastery or full mastery
Belt: prismatic socket could do with a Fractured Chimera's Eye
Legs: replace blue socket with sta/mastery, reforge parry > dodge
Boots: reforge Parry > Mastery
Both trinkets are stamina + use/proc avoidance, some more baseline mastery could be useful here (or dodge/parry which you can reforge)
Weapon: reforge Parry > Dodge
Relic: reforge should be Parry > Mastery, not Dodge.
General rule of thumb is:
Don't socket for expertise/hit bonus
Stat prio for gear is Mastery > Parry=Dodge > Hit/Exp
Reforge Parry & Dodge so their ratings are as close as possible to each other. Close means 15 rating, not 1501!
That's what I got at first glance from your profile. Use Fetzie's guide & CTC spreadsheet to help you more on perfecting your gear without wasting stats.
Mists of Pandaria Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Warlords of Draenor One Minute Field Guides
Moved to HALP.
READ THIS: Posting & Chat Rules
Anyway, yeah Hit and Expertise are not needed outside of Heroic Raid content. And even then it depends on raid
composition/DPS/strategy. Threat should never be a problem outside of the first 5 seconds of combat. Now and then you'll get a unlucky (you) pull, miss, parry, dodge, miss VS Fury Warrior Crit Crit Crit! Weapon Proc! But those are secluded few and far between incidents and you'll either recover within a few seconds or have a VERY short boss attempt. Either way I wouldn't worry about it.

subset: commoncrawl


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Clawson � A large circle inside the Clawson High football dressing room exemplifies the backbone of the program.
The circle contains the names of all 26 varsity players written on cardboard pads plus the words �Clawson football� inside the old bulletin board.
If a name is outside the circle, it means that player broke the sacred circle of trust that fuels this program. If the name remains on the outside when jerseys are handed out Thursday nights, that player will not play the next day.
�Trust� and �faith,� words that drive Clawson football.
Hundreds of programs across the country will hold onto that faith in the next few weeks as the high school football season begins. For Clawson, the journey begins Friday at home against Harper Woods.
�We have one rule in our entire football program,� coach Jim Sparks said. �We have to be able to trust you.�
Keeping the faith
When that trust is broken � for skipping class, for example � the name is placed outside the circle.
�Everybody wants to get back into the circle of trust,� Sparks said.
That trust also is expected on the field.
Sparks trusts his players to make the correct reads and develop team chemistry in a spread offense in which junior quarterback son Ty Sparks � his son � has the OK to change plays on the fly. Ty Sparks often does that. Last year, he changed an estimated 40 percent of the plays at the line.
And in turn, Ty Sparks has faith in all of his teammates, especially his offensive line and 6-foot-3, 200-pound junior wide receiver Marquian Johnson, one of the best players in the area.
Girl earns trust
That trust trickles down to senior kicker Olivia Paquette, the only girl on the team.
It didn�t take long for her to earn the trust.
Three years ago, Jim Sparks was looking for a kicker after losing his kicker to graduation. He turned to the boys soccer team, but since they played Friday nights, he�d have a kicker for only five games.
So he turned to the girls soccer team, and Paquette stood out.
�She is small but rugged,� Sparks said. �She was elbowing people and you could see if things did not go her way she became vocal with teammates. She is highly competitive and motivated. If she gets 89 on a test and somebody else gets a 92 she is ticked off.�
With that, Sparks placed his trust in Paquette.
And so the circle continues.
It�s all about trust ... and Clawson football.
(313) 222-1494
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The accident happened just after 2:00 Saturday afternoon.
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The proposed $7.8 million stadium renovations would be complete before the fall of 2015.
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A term used to describe the nature of the "prisoner's dilemma" in game theory. It is used to highlight the competitive tension between the subjects involved. (Howard Raiffa, The Art and Science of Negotiation [Harvard University Press, 1982], 347) See also: Sharing the Market, Practice Taking Risks, and the Negotiation Roleplay Simulation: Win As Much As You Can.
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Looks like all of this is gonna be VERY interested when they reduce talent point spending.
How many main healers are in beta tweaking and testing with the talents and spells? Let's talk!
I'm a PVE oriented healer 100% so if you're looking for PVP related stuff, I do not follow!
Just got done messing with druid, priest and paladin healing specs.
General Notes:
Seems like everyone is getting a consistent heal for around 200 mana and about 2 second casts, slightly more or less based on the haste. I was using the premade toons which were equipped with ilvl251 gears. I had no glyphs on these toons as well so things would have been slightly different.
Priests - Heal 200 after talents
Druids - Nourish 200 after talents
Paladins - Holy Light 260 after talents
I've hoped for more decision based spell usage rather than keep spells on cooldown and spamming everything that drops below 90% HP. It looks like Blizzard kind of fulfilled my wish and twisted a bit of level 60 healing style into Cataclysm with some slower spells and a bigger variety of things to choose (I'm looking at you, holy paladins!). I'm very happy with some of these healing changes as they are less spammy on a concentrated amount of spells.
I'm just going to assume Cataclysm is going to have less AOE oriented fights based on the spells I skimmed through and played with through the three classes. I didn't get to spend any time on a resto shaman, so if you did please share some more information.
Druid notes:
- Fury of Stormrage (talent) bugged, getting instant Nourish and Healing Touch casts for the entire duration. Seems to be good for PVP only, not needed so far since it procs free instant Wrath.
- Wild Growth costing 1.8k mana feelsbadman, looks like this will be spammed a lot less.
- Tree of Life is still nice for burst but I am still sketchy about them making it a slow moving target again. But making it a 5 minute cd for 15% more healing seems kind of low. I would like to see this a bit more adjusted. I don't think I saw any mana cost reductions either.
- I'll enjoy being able to look and enjoy the tier 11+ armors on my resto druid while healing now instead of looking at a treant 120% of the time. Rejoice!
- Even with some Wild Growth nerf, Regrowth gets a little aoe hot through talents when it crits or something but I didn't get to use it in an instance yet, I was just selfcasting in the city. If you've used it, how does it play out when AOE healing is possibly needed?
- Spamming Rejuvenate is probably still going to be around but you can't spam
- Lifebloom anymore since it's single target at a time and a lot of druid players are raging over it. Looks like a good tank spell again and it is cheap on cost at 175 mana @ lvl 80.
Priest notes:
- Smiting for Evangelism and Archangel is like spamming paladin Judgements to get the haste bonus. I kind of like how this keeps priests busy while healing to get some buffs up.
- Power Word: Barrier -- Wow! Very nice spell, if it was just slightly usable more frequently it would be awesome too. But I guess that would imbalance PVP a bit as well. The radius that you can cast this on is a little smaller than I had expected.
- Chakra---Heal the bonus is nice passively. The HOT off Radiance for this also depends on which heal/greater heal you follow up with and it adjusts accordingly. For example I was getting 95/sec with Heal and threw down a Greater heal and it went up to 185/sec HoT and it refreshed to full duration, a Heal following up after that would bring it back down to 95/sec with refreshed duration.
- Chakra---Renew; not a whole lot to talk about but it's just nice to be able to spam a bit more.
- Chakra---Prayer of Healing; 10 second COH cd feels bad. This proc lightens it down to 7.5 second cooldown for the Chakra's duration. I'm okay with some aoe healing nerfs, making it not that delicious to spam and focus more on picking out the right spells to heal the right targets at the right moment. Oh, I have to note, Prayer of Healing costs just slightly more than Greater Heal and Flash Heal, around 1.2k each.
- Holy Nova heals nicely for a small fee. Feels good when to use sometimes.
- Surge of Light, since it doesn't proc a free Flash Heal anymore and just Holy Nova and Smite, might still be worth using if you are going down to pick up Archangel at 85. Might even seem like what a high end holy priest would take for bonus regen and healing too.
Paladin notes:
- Holy Shock costing less than 160 mana (again, only lvl 80, it should be more costly at lvl 85) after talents makes it pretty attractive to use on CD for sniping targets.
- Holy paladins gonna get hit with a taste of reality--hitting more than 2 buttons. Looks like Holy Light gonna be base heal spam, which topping off with Holy Shock, Flash of Light, and big healing with Divine Light which heals for 12k in 251 gears @ lvl 80.
We all have great inner power. The power is self-faith. There's really an attitude to winning. You have to see yourself winning before you win. And you have to be hungry. You have to want to conquer. ~Arnold Schwarzeneggar.
Looks like all of this is gonna be VERY interested when they reduce talent point spending.
We all have great inner power. The power is self-faith. There's really an attitude to winning. You have to see yourself winning before you win. And you have to be hungry. You have to want to conquer. ~Arnold Schwarzeneggar.
Holy Priest PoV
My first love is Holy Priest so I spent my time level 80-82 as such and must say I had an absolute blast both in the dungeons as a healer as well as the random solo leveling.
The concept of DPS-to-Heal has proven itself to me a very viable and 'fun' manner of healing. Not only does it provide a way to maintain mana and buff my own healing capacity but it embraces my random smiting I've been doing for years. The one thing I am not overly fond of however is the placement of a broadened book of healing spells on top of this concept. I feel that with add-ons I may not feel the brutal re-engineering for all my keybindings to accomodate it but at the present moment it's encumbersome.
I do feel that there are a few things I would like to see happen to smooth the spec out a little. I still feel that heal is going to be under-utilized by anyone who is not in the early levels. I feel that heal needs to be better incorporated into the other talents.
Serendipity, or Deliverance as it is currently named in Beta, is a talent that when stacked up to 3 times reduces the cast time of your next Greater Heal or Prayer of Healing by 9%. I desperately think that Heal needs to to be included in this talent. I also feel that this talent puts unneccessary weight on the same old cast sequence of FH > FH > FH > GH rather than utilizing heal at all. It is a talent that is either completely useless in most cases or needs to be re-engineered.
I personally favor the DPS-to-Heal method and would have no problem at all with Heal being something only cast when you're so OOM that you can cast nothing else. I am enjoying the emphasis being placed on renew as a holy priest though holy nova still feels weak.
The other Holy Spell I feel still needs to be re-engineered is Lightwell. The poor dead horse the priest forums are constantly beating down hoping that one day we'll get what we QQ for--a spell that does not require our foolish stand-in-fire DPS to actually click it to utilize its effect.
Holy Nova I'm still not sure on. I've used it mainly as a DPS tool instead of a Healing tool but I can see its utility in a raid situation.
Discipline Priest PoV
Granted, not as much of a disc priest as I am holy and I did not spec my 2nd tree until I was already nearly 82. I have to concur that Barrier has the opportunity to be an absolutely wonderful spell but unfortunately the cooldown makes it less than optimal. It feels like only a slightly better spell than Lightwell given its shared CD of 3 minutes that like its holy-tree brother if not placed correctly will be completely useless.
The Disc tree has way to many talents at the bottom and we know which one is the dodgy one.
Grace has got to go. The pure presence of it and its necessity is just ugly. Spec into it and you can't max out one of Divine Fury(ain't gonna happen), Empowered Healing(hmmmm....flat increase of bonus to most single target healing spells except Penance, no ramp up), Inspiration(yeah, sure) and Improved Healing(flat decrease of your bread&butter direct healing skills when mana is at a premium).
This is a bit dodgy. Especially when Divine Fury is more or less mandatory since we are expected to use Heal. Speaking of which, Divine Fury should be baseline. There still is quite a bit to get rid of.
pioneer of representative government who was
killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.
Hey shaman can heal too...
Don't you have like 45,000 mana at 81+? wouldn't 200 mana heals make regen completely useless because you'd never spend that much
Good Holy Paladins have always used more than two buttons. Bad Holy Paladins will still only use two buttons.
Blizzard actually took a button away from Holy Paladins, about which I'm completely shocked. There's no more Divine Guardian/Sacrifice for Holy Paladins, which means we lose one of our biggest raid-mitigation cooldowns. I'm not happy about it, but the changes aren't final, and, either way, I'll just have to accept what is. It doesn't make Holy Paladins less viable as healers.
Cleanse also loses some utility which has to be made up for in talents. Sort of a cheap way to make us spend some points, but, I think it was a justifiable nerf for cleanse.
I'm curious how Holy Paladins will be made to "feel" like Holy Paladins upon entering the tree, considering all of their Tier 1 talents are passive modifiers. We do get Judgements of the Pure in Tier 2, but that really feels weak until you get Enlightened Judgements, due to it forcing you to stand in melee all the time. This was something that I found impractical for Holy Paladins when I was leveling. With the way that pulls are setup, a lot of mobs did nasty silences and interrupts in melee range. To top it all off, depending on how your tank was pulling, you had to heal before you could set yourself up in range to melee for a judgement proc.
Enlightened Judgements should probably trade places with Inspired Judgements, or even possibly Unyielding Faith and simply be readily accessible in that tier.
Anyways, this is the build that I looked at tentatively. There's some wiggle room. You can take out movement speed and grab some more talents from the Holy Tree. But, on the whole, I'm rather disappointed in how Blizz has looked at Holy Paladins and do expect that they'll end up changing things down the road. This will certainly be my blog topic for the week.
So, today they reduced the talents to a 31-talent tree. I finally got in late last night in a stable enough environment to check it out and try running a dungeon....that is after staring at the talent tree and trying desperately not to vomit.
All the excitement and giddyness I felt two days ago has vanished into this horrid state of despair with some sort of internal plea for an indication that they are planning to do a MUCH larger overhaul of the talent trees again. I honestly don't feel that what they put out should ever, ever make it to live Cata. I feel they are sorely missing the mark as far as what they were aiming for.
The thought was to get rid of "useless" talents and "obligatory" specs but I feel they have solidified this more dutifully than ever before.
5 Talent points per tier is still required meaning that you are forced to take at least something in the early tiers to unlock ones below it. You cannot skip useless items because to do so means you cannot get to the juicy talents below it.
The skillbook I had from my spec is no longer possible. I hope they revert back.
I'm actually enjoying the new trees quite a bit (allowing for the first-pass nature, and that some of the classes have been specifically mentioned as "not as far along."). The only things that have stood out to me so far as things I would see adjusted are:
1.) Holy Priests, I love the tree, but I'm not gaga over the passive spell you get being Desperate Prayer. It feels a bit iffy as a "signature" spell for Holy Priests. At the same time, I couldn't think of another that would fit well. Circle of Healing makes sense, but it may be a slightly more niche spell for differentiating between group and focus-centric healing if the trees were designed for that potential. I'm still mulling that over.
2.) Discipline Priests, though not mentioned as such, has the somewhat ungainly feeling like the other "behind" trees as having too many things I want to get to the same ends, and not well-distributed among the tiers so I feel like I need to pile point into the bottom of the tree.
3.) Resto Shamans feel pretty good, though I really wish I could, in good conscience, pick up the full Enhanced Shield without sacrificing some of my other niche specifics like fully buffing Chain Heal or Earth Shield.
4.) Holy Paladin tree feels like I said above, a bit ungainly, though definitely with some fun toys. At the moment I'm unsure of whether or not I actually want Aura Mastery badly enough to get that *and* Divine Illumination, with the tighter points. It feels like an awkward way to bottom the tree, like I'd want something a little more interesting for the cherry on the sundae. Selfless Healer is a cool idea in that healing other people is specially buffed sort of idea, but in function it seems a little wonky. It really seems more meaningful used against the Paladin in PvP than anything else.
5.) <3 Resto Druiding. I'm still not thrilled about Tree Form being a bursty CD for healing, but the tree feels kind of nice. I'm just really happy to have stuff like Efflorescence stick around, I really like the idea of a heal like that. I think the only room I have to complain is that my level 85 build in the current tree leaves me with 1 somewhat random point to place.
Everything will get molded, rather nicely I expect. But seeing this all as a first draft, I'm rather happy with the direction we're headed in. Feedback is the order of the day, so I want to try and get some opportunities to play with the stuff and let it set in so I can give Blizz something good to go on.
Last edited by Satorri; 07-14-2010 at 02:37 PM.
The (Old) Book on Death Knight Tanking
The New Testament on Death Knight Tanking
The priest trees for instance look only half finished.
This is a preview that's just a bit closer to the finished thing than the last preview.
Considering they consider healing one of the biggest challenges I dare say we will have to wait a bit longer.
The sky is clouding over but it has not yet fallen.
Count the talents and talent point in the trees and you will see they still have some fluff in them.
Yes, I intend to be that specific.
pioneer of representative government who was
killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.
I love the new Druid talents also but I have a bad feeling something is going to change in it. With how it stands now there is no problem with picking up every useful talent plus a few fillers. Maybe I'm just used to either picking a tank healing spec or a raid healing spec and am spoiled by being able to go with both.
Crossing my fingers that I'm wrong though.
It really looks like Blizz is trying to make the relationship between Regrowth and Nourish a lot more interesting.
I think the TOL form cooldown should really be in the realm of 2 mins. Plus for god's sake get rid of the slow.
If Disc has to spec into Inspiration it will be very, very annoying. We'd have to give up 4-5 significant points to get it 3/3.
If we don't then Disc is the cleanest, best spec in the game at this time. Putting points in may not be "fun" or "exciting" because it's so intuitive but the results are amazing. 3/3 Divine Fury + all of the Disc tree [minus Imp. Mana Burn, Reflective Shield, Focused Will]. We get the fast Smites [and heals] from Holy plus all the important stuff from Disc.
Resto Druids getting Swiftmend and then having to spec into it? LOL, Blizz, good job. That's an oopsy! I'm sure they'll figure it out right quick.
I'm an alt-oholic. I'm ok with that.
Talents: Disc seems fairly clean, Holy is still fairly clunky. Why is Inspiration a 3 point talent? Shammies get it for 2 points and I think 1 point makes more sense.
But I'm with you on the whole thing feeling a bit meh. Divine Illumination is nice, but it doesn't really feel like an awesome, 31-point talent. Maybe because it wasn't the 51-point talent before, I dunno, but it sort of feels like we're getting ripped off by having it put there. On the whole though, with Holy Paladins being dubbed "vastly unfinished, DUE for MAJOR changes" I'm sure we'll see all of that change.
Not sure whether I should feel afraid or excited.


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A couple of things not mentioned in the video.
1. If you dont let the orb bounce often enough (around 5-6 times) then the next orb will take LONGER to come out once the next phase 1 starts (there is an internal cooldown on Void of the Unmaking). This can cause Furious Anger to stack too high and result in tank death.
2. The stacks of the debuff Zon'ozz gets from being hit by the sphere last for a LONG time, and if you let it hit him again after around 5-6 stacks they will continue to stack. This means he DOES continue to take the increased damage during the 2nd phase 1 and there after, and if executed properly, will continue to take ever increasing damage throughout the fight!
Hope this helps! (Not that help is really needed, this boss is ridiculously easy if you have decent healers and can manage the ball)


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Search Michigan Dog Rescues and Shelters Here.
Find Great Pyrenees Puppies and Dogs for Adoption Today!
Doggies Blog: Recent Posts
Michigan: Great Pyrenees Breeders
Below is a sample search of our Great Pyrenees breeders with puppies for sale. The search tool above returns a list of breeders located listings located nearest to the zip or postal code you enter. From there you can see photos of their pups, find out detailed information on their web page and contact them by email, phonoe or even get driving directions.
(Detailed contact information has been omitted Use Enter your zip or postal code above to access our up to date directory).
This is a FREE search tool! Use the form at the top to get complete listings for breeders in your area!
Wooly Bee Farm
Additional Information: AKC REG. Great Pyrenees puppies. Ready now. This litter was born Dec. 14th. 2 available. Updated February 20 2014.
Wooly Bee Farm in located in Northern Illinois. Our Great Pyrenees, Reba and Ruger are working Livestock Guardian Dogs protecting our flock of... ...
Miller Farm
Additional Information: We are expecting our next litter around November 16, 2014..We do not currently have any pups available.Please check back for updates.
We hope to have our next litter by the end of the year. We do not have any pups available at this time. Our Great Pyrenees are working livestock... ...
Four Points Alpacas
Additional Information: We have 5 Great Pyrenees pups for sale,
Akc Great Pyrenees Pups For Sale Akc Great Pyrenees Pups For Sale 11 Week old AKC Great Pyrenees puppies for sale. Friendly dogs(Parents on... ...
TCF Farm Connections
Additional Information: Beautiful Great Pyrenees correct AKC standard from genetically sound parents. Parents are screened for temperment, hip, knees, elbow. Championship bloodlines. Gentle, loving, great protectors.
Circle H Kennel
Additional Information: ***New Litter coming May12th $800 taking deposits Call now!** Golden Doodle Pups now and Mini Labradoodles**We are Circle H Kennel Breeding exceptional dogs for excellent for excellent owners!
Circle H Kennel � Cooper & Steve Hendrix: Owners �W e began breeding dogs�many years�ago with one mission in mind. Breed... ...
Circle H Kennel
Additional Information: AKC Great Pyrenees puppies. Born 6-25-12 Ready Aug 20th 4 males 2 female 4 left. $650-$675 Champion Bloodlines 217-242-4078 Circle H KennelAsk for Cooper
We are Circle H Kennel and Farm. We have over 25+ years of breeding experience and we strive to breed "Exceptional Dogs for Excellent Owners." We... ...
Wright Family Farms
Additional Information: We are a small family farm operation and we haveGreat Pyrenees Puppies for Sale from time to time.These dogs are excellent with our stock or as family companions.
We are a small family farm and we have Great Pyrenees Puppies from time to time. We use the Great Pyrenees to watch our flock of sheep and... ...
Ten Bears Pyrenees
Additional Information: We've been producing our winning show dogs/LGD over 25 years.Our dogs are the large type with big bone,bear heads. PUPPIES are here 4 working/show.phone # required.Call 4 availability 417-343-3795.
If web site is not working pleas call to let us kno..417-343-3795...Ten Bears Pyrenees are top quality working Livestock Guardian Dogs/showdogs/... ...
WPT Great Pyrenees
Additional Information: Beautifully bred AKC Great Pyrenees pups, bred to AKC standards for beauty, calm temperaments and loving dispositions. www.wptgreatpyrenees.com
AKC Great Pyrenees pups, bred to AKC standards for beauty, conformation, loving personalities/dispositions and working ability, please... ...
Llamaland Great Pyrenees
Additional Information: New litter born 10/12/2014 -AKC Males and females available.$600. The puppies will be ready to go at 8 weeks. worming/shots will be UTD.We have been raising GP for over 25 years.Shipping available
Please see our website for pictures of the parents ...
Crooked River Saints
Additional Information: We have Great Pyrenees puppies! We are a small breeder. Puppies are raised in our home. We provide a lifetime health guarantee, first shots and Life's Abundance healthy start pack ($95 value).
Lucky L Pyrenees
Additional Information: Offering AKC/UKC Great Pyrenees with limited registration and health guarantee. Champion parents have OFA hip, elbow and heart clearances.
I am a small breeder. I show my dogs in conformation events in AKC and UKC. All my dogs have received their UKC Championships. I only have 1-2... ...
Sunny Ridge Kennel
Additional Information: Beautiful pure bred puppies born to parents who love kids and work with farm animals. Buddy is papered and very mellow. Cinder was raised with kids and is a fabulous mom. They're waiting to meet you!
11/01/14 Update : Starting to get a little cooler here in Colorado which means the dogs get a little more frisky. We currently have no... ...
Additional Information: PUPS ARE HERE!!...from finest AKC lines. Both parents AKC Champions & OFA certified. We breed wonderful Pyrs with loving dispositions and the ability to show and win. See Website
Windmill Hill Great Pyrenees
Additional Information: AKC&CKC registerable Great Pyrenees pups from working parents. Pups born throughout the year. Pictures of parents and puppies at www.Texaspygmy.com. Located in south Central Texas. Call 830-660-2050
AKC & CKC registerable Great Pyrenees pups. Working parents on site with goats. Pups born throughout the year. CKC pups are... ...
Hidden Valley Pyrenees
Additional Information: Beautiful AKC Great Pyrenees puppies. Mom and Dad on site, raised with love around ,kittens, llamas, mini mule, children and more. Bred for temperment and health. Start at $850.00
Mollie Bear Farms
Additional Information: AKC Champion Bloodline puppies. Next litter expected early December, 2014. Full AKC Registration & health guarantee.
AKC Champion bloodline puppies. Next litter expected early December 2014. Mother and father OFA Hip and Elbow Certified. Full AKC Registration.... ...
Sho Mor
Additional Information: We had a litter in April but it was only one puppy, which we are keeping. We named him Sho Mors Rpyr Under The Big Top and calling him Topper. We did not have a litter and will not be breeding again
I have showen and bred dogs for 50 years starting with the Poodle, Whippet, Australian Cattle Dog, Shiba Inu and the Great Pyrenees. Still... ...
Mistry Great Pyrenees
Additional Information: Puppies,Family Companions, Rescue, Livestock Guardians & Therapy dogs Adults OFA Certified on Hips, Knees & Elbows.GUARANTEE on HEALTH, TEMPERMENT & HIPSHave been Breeding & Rescue since 1977
Important: breeders.NET has not screened the listed breeders and accepts no responsibility for their reputation or quality. It is your responsibility to investigate. See How to Find a Dog.


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WNA Comet Overall Customer Rating:
When your event requires an elegant touch, but you do not want to break the bank, look no further than WNA Comet. WNA is a leading designer and manufacturer of upscale disposable plastic dinnerware and tableware that emulates fine crystal, china, and flatware, but without the danger of breakage and at a fraction of the price. Read more
With disposable wine glasses from WNA Comet you no longer have to worry about dirty or shattered glasses. These disposables offer the elegance of real glass or crystal with the durability and easy cleanup of plastic.
Serve your favorite soups, salads, and side dishes in an elegant manner and forget about cleaning up! Disposable bowls from WNA Comet offer an elegant touch to any dish while eliminating the hassle of washing. All you do is throw used dishes away!
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Serve your customers and the environment with green, biodegradable plastic dinnerware from WNA Comet. These plates are available in several sizes to suit a variety of meals and are made of special material that allows it to biodegrade in 1 to 5 years!
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Free public library in Pikesville. Open to all ages.
No photos found
Bring children ages 0-23 months to Baby Story Time for stories, rhymes, bounces, songs and playtime. Registration is required.
Baltimore City Paper, 501 N. Calvert Street, P.O. Box 1377, Baltimore, MD 21278
We are in the process of making some sweeping changes to our calendar system. Our crack team of internet imagineers are hard at work to make our site better and easier for our users to find exactally what they want in and around baltimore.
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The Classic Player Tele® Deluxe Black Dove™ is a model that is the same as it never was; offering a distinctive twist on the '70s-era Telecaster® Deluxe. Features include an alder body, four-bolt neck, '70s-style large Strat® headstock, Black Dove™ pickups, bullet truss rod, skirted amp knobs, independent volume and tone controls and three-position toggle switch.
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I've been playing guitar for 19 years and this guitar is a member of my modest guitar line-up. It's a very chunky guitar capable of greater sustain than any other that I own. I was concerned that the P-90s (Black Doves technically) would be too noisy to be usable which is a relatively common problem with P-90's. Fortunately they hardly pick up any intereference. These pickups sound very similar to humbuckers except when playing chords the E, B, & G strings stand out more and cut through a little more than with HB's. Also, single notes ring with a little more force and authority. Fender's Black Doves are a little darker and have a little more to offer in the lows and low-mid range than traditional P-90 single coils. However, they aren't quite as bright as a traditional P-90 either. This is altogether a really unique looking guitar... quite attractive and unconventional. The tuning stability is nearly perfect but the tuners are difficult to turn. The fretboard has a nice lacquer finish and the frets are very smooth. One drawback...the neck pickup's a little too dark sounding. It's usable clean but with distortion it's just muddy and too bassy. The bridge pickup is phenomenal; crystalline, clear, bell like beast-tone...kicking in the overdrive really focuses the power. The two pickup tone is very sweet as well. These are very powerful pickups. More so than many humbuckers I've played. This guitar is suitable for most types of music (even metal). Most guitarists would be thrilled to own the Tele Deluxe Black Dove. This guitar is built in Mexico but commands a price twice as high as the Standard Tele or Strat. It's worth the money. I like this guitar a lot but I am not at all a fan of traditional Telecasters. So if you are looking for that trade-mark twang you'll probably have to look elsewhere (not too far though!). The finish on the guitar is nice but I agree with others who think there should be some extra fretboard options (rosewood, ebony).
TocarLaGuitarra owns this item
I have been playing for 15 years, Gibson guy for most of them. But started buying fenders, I mean lets face it, Gibson's guality is down and Fender's is way up. Not to mention the cost difference for what you get this guitar is unbelievable. Perfect for the Les Paul guy switching to fender. The p90s give it a raunchy rock tone and this thing rips. The neck is comfortable, and the control setup is the best configuration for this guitar. Would have gave it 5 stars if you could get it with rosewood fret board, some more color options, and maybe made in USA. But other than that it's built great, plays great, sounds wicked awesome and will be loved and played for many years to come. Thanks Fender.
jjkp0416 owns this item
|Model Name:
|Classic Player Tele® Deluxe Black Dove™, Maple Fingerboard, Crimson Red Transparent
|Model Number:
|Classic Player
|Crimson Red Transparent
|Body Material:
|Body Finish:
|Body Shape:
|Neck Material:
|Neck Finish:
|Gloss Urethane
|Neck Shape:
|"C" Shape
|Scale Length:
|25.5" (648 mm)
|Fingerboard Radius:
|12" (305 mm)
|Number of Frets:
|Fret Size:
|Medium Jumbo
|String Nut:
|Synthetic Bone
|Nut Width:
|1.650" (42 mm)
|Position Inlays:
|Black Dot
|Truss Rod Nut:
|Bullet Style
|Large '70s Style
|Neck Plate:
|4-Bolt with Micro-Tilt™
|Neck Pickup:
|DE-9000 Black Dove™ Single-Coil
|Volume 1. (Neck Pickup), Tone 1. (Neck Pickup), Volume 2. (Bridge Pickup), Tone 2. (Bridge Pickup)
|Pickup Switching:
|3-Position Toggle: Position 1. Bridge Pickup, Position 2. Bridge and Neck Pickups, Position 3. Neck Pickup
|Pickup Configuration:
|6-Saddle Vintage-Style Strat Strings-Through-Body Hardtail
|Hardware Finish:
|Tuning Machines:
|Fender Vintage "F" Stamped
|3-Ply Black
|Control Knobs:
|Skirted Amp Knobs
|Switch Tips:
|Fender® USA 250L, NPS, (.009-.042 Gauges)
|Unique Features:
|'70s Large Stratocaster® Headstock, four-bolt neck, "Bullet" Truss Rod Nut, Black Pickup Covers, Black Dot Position Inlays, Synthetic Bone Nut
|Included Accessories:
|Deluxe Gig Bag
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Get on board the Ninky Nonk and meet all the different characters living in the magical world of the Night Garden.
Find support, help and advice on parenting and childcare for your babies, toddlers and early years. Learn how CBeebies shows, fun games and activities can help your kids learn through play.


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Stanford: Piano Quintet & String Quintet No 1
Helios (Hyperion's budget label)CDH55434
Movement 1: Allegro
Movement 2: Andante
Movement 3: Allegretto
Conceived in three movements (like Brahms's String Quintet No 1, Op 88, in the same key), the First Quintet begins with a buoyant, flowing, exultant Allegro, full of warmth and rich scoring (here, as in his orchestral scoring, Stanford shows a felicity gleaned largely from Mendelssohn, which so clearly distinguishes his style from the heavier manner of Brahms). The Andante drew critical attention for its assimilation of Irish traditional music. Drawing its elaborate ornamental figurations from the old style of singing from the south-west of Ireland (now referred to as 'sean nós'), the movement is a lament which demands a good deal of rubato and liberal treatment of the metre. '[Kruse] played it very "free"', Stanford pointed out to Joachim 'and I think it gained by it greatly.' Stanford elected to merge the scherzo and finale into one larger superstructure whose construction was governed by an overarching scheme of a theme and variations. The third movement itself consists of a series of expanding variations that moves from F major through D minor to D major. This shift to D facilitates an unexpected reprise of the slow movement which is restated almost operatically (Stanford marks it 'quasi recit.') above a tremolando accompaniment. After the memory of the lament has receded, the first viola breaks into a much more extended sonata movement in 9/8 time (characteristic of the 'hop jig') whose primary material is based on the original theme of the Andante. This is the finale proper and functions cleverly in several ways: first, it provides a fitting conclusion to the larger variation scheme; secondly, it functions subtly as a recapitulation of the F–D dialectic established in the earlier variations; and thirdly, it affords a telling conclusion to the broader architectonic contrast of the first two movements (also in F major and D minor respectively), a relationship Stanford surely wished us to grasp through two further allusions to the lament theme of the second movement in the recapitulation and coda.
from notes by Jeremy Dibble © 2005


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Our simplehuman® Pull-Out Cabinet Organizer is easy to add to your kitchen or bathroom cabinets to help make the contents stored more accessible. It features a tray at the base to catch spills or leaks.
Enter your zip code for product availability and pickup options at your nearest store.
9" Pull-Out Cabinet Organizer Chrome
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Used Cars in the Woodbridge Area from Lustine Toyota
You can save thousands on a used car in Woodbridge by visiting Lustine Toyota. Our dealership has a wide variety of high-quality used cars and used hybrid vehicles to choose from. Each vehicle on our lot has undergone a meticulous inspection by our auto technicians to ensure the Lustine Toyota standard for superior pre-owned vehicles. We are your destination for a used Toyota, and we are proud to provide Woodbridge with well-maintained used cars at low prices. We look forward to seeing you soon at our Woodbridge Toyota dealership.


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Protestors in Steubenville, Ohio, today braved crappy weather to rally at the county courthouse and call for further investigation into an alleged sexual assault. In August a 16-year-old girl, in a state of blackout intoxication, was lugged about by two Steubenville High School football players who were later arrested on rape charges.
Since the summer, the Anonymous-affiliated hacktivist group KnightSec has hacked a football booster's site—which now describes those takeovers as efforts to "terrorize the Steubenville community"—and organized rallies to pressure the Steubenville fuzz to dig further. Other students (including football players) who watched the alleged assaults and later tweeted rape jokes were disciplined only months afterward.
The whole mess hit a nerve, and it appears that hundreds of people turned out in the small town today to support the victim and to decry "corruption." At least one protestor held a sign calling on Reno Saccoccia, Stuebenville High's football coach, to resign. The best early reporting we have on it comes via social media (and a live stream) so here's that:
#occupysteubenville twitter.com/CassandraRules…— Cassandra #KnightSec (@CassandraRules) December 29, 2012
chants now "the boogy men arent under your bed, their sitting in classrooms at big red" #occupysteubenville— #KnightSec (@KYAnonymous) December 29, 2012
Had a great time with @usmcboonierat @kyanonymous and all that attended #OccupySteubenville & it was peaceful twitter.com/frankmanteau/s…— #Knightsec (@frankmanteau) December 29, 2012
#occupysteubenville twitter.com/CassandraRules…— Cassandra #KnightSec (@CassandraRules) December 29, 2012
#OccupySteubenville was priceless.I hope any other rape victims feel comfortable coming forward.Witnesses should come forward.— Elizabeth (@ElizabethRumson) December 29, 2012
#firetruck stops to block the counterprotesters from protesting #occupysteubenville— #KnightSec (@KYAnonymous) December 29, 2012
counter protestors at #occupysteubenville dwindle to just 6 boys rumored to be big red football members.— #KnightSec (@KYAnonymous) December 29, 2012
@kyanonymous #oprollredroll #occupySteubenville #RenoResign #Anonymus twitter.com/Mel_Arnold11/s…— Melanie Arnold (@Mel_Arnold11) December 29, 2012