text:
laboratory tests of vegan restaurants in la (via Waxy)
Posing as owners of a new LA area vegetarian restaurant, we arrived at Bodhi and asked to speak with a customer service manager. We were quickly introduced to a helpful lady who was ready to advise us on what products to buy. She was either the manager or the owner, and most definitely the senior person on-premise at that time.
She showed us to a freezer of "veggie chicken", and we checked the ingredients on the label (all vegan). We asked her why some products have a better mouth texture than others, even though they have no eggs listed as ingredients, and after a long conversation and questions, she said the following:
"We buy most of this veggie meat from a manufacturer in Taiwan. It's produced for the Taiwanese and Chinese vegetarian market then re-labeled for export, often to the USA. I do know of times when things have been labelled incorrectly, but I do my best to make sure that what they send me is what they say it is."
Upon further questioning, she kindly gave us the email address of her contact in Taiwan. She specifically asked that we didn't mention Bodhi Vegetarian Supply when we contacted them, and so we're not disclosing the name of the manufacturer here.
LA's vegan restaurants are full of egg
126 Responses to "LA's vegan restaurants are full of egg"
@ Frank and Abby –
Never said I was any less self-righteous! I just said it was hard to be worst than the plain jane veggies and they were!
I felt like (and was and still am) the biggest hypocrite when I started eating meat again…and yeah, I had to cognitively convince myself it is right. I still don't eat much, but not I try to respect the animals I do eat. A good friend that runs a buddhist center tells me that he occasionally partakes because it allows him to be a part of the world as opposed to one only living in observation of it. Allows him to understand the circle of life and the sacrifices all organisms must make on this planet.
But yeah, lumping self-righteous based on dietary choices? Sure. When you talk about it all the time and make it a lifestyle as opposed to just a practice. I know a lot of folks from India and Asia that are veg and don't talk about it at all.
Honestly, cutting consumption of meat is great for the environment, regardless of how far one goes. Vegans take a lot less of a footprint than any other humans (judging purely by food intake…and ignoring the ones that get their meals sent from overseas manufacturing as in this article) and it is to be respected. Still, I'm going to make fun of the attitudes, and they will make fun of my attitude, and someone not connected at all will make an internal comment about being superior because they are above the fray and thus the intellectual circle of life continues as well!
@Takuan – they should call the police. Or at least consider dining somewhere else in the future.
meh, another century and we'll all be eating vat cultured bacteria biscuits. Human fretting about morality of food loses to physical reality.
That's right! It was much better when "organic" meant "contained carbon molecules", and "natural" just meant it didn't possess magical powers.
So there are some insects who practice something that might remotely be comparable to animal husbandry or agriculture…
However, I still think that our practice of agriculture is significantly different, in that it allows for the possibility of different choices, based entirely on what we want to do, not what we must do to survive. I'm speaking of course in regard to food acquisition- I'm not disputing that other animals do things that have no particular survival component, which is clearly the case.
Something I've noticed about vegan food (and especially some of the problem items they mention in the article) is the tendency to create "meat substitutes" – non-meat products textured and flavoured to look, taste and feel like meat.
This trend in vegan food has always puzzled me, since there are plenty of healthy, balanced, completely vegan meals that can be made which have nothing to do with meat. You just have to look in places like Shojin Ryori, or Gujarati cuisine. Hell, half of South and Central America lives on not much else than rice, corn and beans.
If you're vegan, and really into the philosophy of it, and worried about products that might be dodgy, just avoid the meat substitutes.
I'm sorry, but if you're a "Vegan" or Vegetarian, and you feel the need to eat "meat substitutes", you are a giant hypocrite.
@Palilay A hypocrite how? Most vegans & vegetarians abstain from eating innocent animals because it's murder, not because it doesn't taste good.
if it was a chocolate gun?
To JeremyMarseille -
Yes, the ethical problem with eggs could be pretty much solved if you raise your own hens. However, that is only true if they are your ONLY source of eggs, and if the cows you raise kindly are your only source of milk. Most people however, even those who care for their own livestock, will still eat products in restaurants or in packaged or baked products that contain egss or dairy, in which case they are usually factory farmed eggs and commercial dairy cows living under pretty horrendous conditions.
But again, ethical is not the only reason people choose to go vegan. I am just as interested in it for the health concerns as well as the the environmental reasons, which Grim Beefer summed up so well. Even if I raised my own livestock, I would not eat dairy or eggs for the health reasons.
About the original topic of the article, I think people are oversimplifying and pretending that we vegans are being ridiculous to care. There is a great deal of trust involved in eating out. You trust that the chefs will wash their hands, not sneeze in your food, discard rotten ingredients, and tell you if there are potentially dangerous allergens in what you are eating. Remember Typhoid Mary? Big problem. And I for one have heard horror stories about people dying in restaurants when a chef failed to disclose peanuts as a secret ingredient. Some people have valid health concerns. And still others ask that they be able to trust that what they are eating is as advertised. Because if you can't trust a chef to tell you when there is egg in something, what can you trust?
But I do agree with some others on here – personally I have no interest in meat substitutes beyond the occasional tofu stirfry. But that is just a taste preference – you are not more or less vegan because of it….
Uh…. WHY, exactly?
Those meat substitutes are damn tasty, might I say, and I'm not even a vegetarian. I'd still rather eat the substitutes most times, because they are just so good.
So, no, I don't buy your "argument" in the least. Not that you were really arguing so much as namecalling.
@ Jonathan Badger #85:
I wouldn't care — why should I if no baby was harmed? That's what I mean about rationality.
I'm not saying fake baby meat should be illegal, I'm saying that it's something I (and probably most other people) would find distasteful. By the same token, I can understand why someone who was horrified by the notion of eating animal flesh might find fake meat off-putting as well.
There's a difference between holding the same views as another person and trying to understand where they are coming from.
I'm sorry, but if you're a "Vegan" or Vegetarian, and you feel the need to eat "meat substitutes", you are a giant hypocrite.
Wait, it's the taste and mouthfeel of meat that you have a moral objection to?
@35 Coeliac has a genetic base. You have to have the (multiple) genes that cause it and even then you may or may not develop it. Eating processed foods full of gluten is NOT one of the things that can trigger it.
Anyway, back when my sister was vegan I used to throw this in her face all the time. Harpers had put a line in their index about the majority of Vegan food products containing at least one animal product. Looked into it a bit and found a number of studies and other articles (all in established magazines/newspapers/journals) to that effect. So much for citizen journalism. and as Schmod (#17) points out they sort of borked the science two. The only thing remarkable here is that they've finally gotten people to pay attention. Oh this first came to my attention round abouts 2002 if anyone want to do what I'm too lazy to do and find sources.
I support #17, to make is simpler, the fact that a certain food contain a protein (like casein) that is always present in dairy products does not mean it is a dairy product.
What does the "egg-presence" test really tests? For example soy lecithin is also present in egg (it is actually called lecithin, adding the "soy" in front is just marketing).
Then you should take a bite out of crime.
the fact that we aren't separate from the food chain. We are just animals ourselves and animals are brutal to one another in their quest for existence.
i.e. You no longer subscribe to human exceptionalism.
That's right! It was much better when "organic" meant "contained carbon molecules", and "natural" just meant it didn't possess magical powers.
True that!
Abby or any other vegan:
May I ask you a question? What makes eggs unethical? I am a classic vegetarian and I have free range hens in my backyard. They have a great life: grain, grass, veggie clippings, etc, and they just naturally drop 7 to 10 eggs a week in their little nest. As I tell my friends, eating eggs is sort of like eating a woman's monthly period; you are using a natural resource that would go to waste otherwise.
Is the ethical issue factory farms? Or that roosters face mass slaughter because the egg industry only needs hens?
Word. I wouldn't say that professional journalists always do this right, either. But we're at least trained in ethics (which were, I agree, blatantly violated in the way information was collected from that Bhodi company and in the way the writers essentially promised the company anonymity and then named them).
Also, there's more accountability within the profession than in amateur reporting. When professional journalists screw up the science or publish misleading/unproven claims, there are other journalists in the industry stepping up to call them on it. See: The Knight Science Journalism Tracker — http://ksjtracker.mit.edu/ — and The Health News Review — http://www.healthnewsreview.org/.
I think this is an interesting and worthy thing to research. I agree that it might not have ever been noticed by professional journalists. But I also think it's a great example of why citizen journalism only works if the citizen journalists take the time to learn and adhere to some basic standards of practice.
@ Clif Marsiglio: You gave up a vegetarian diet dude to lack of protein? what were you doing wrong? Carl Lewis may be able to help you.
I loved this post, it reminds me of the vegan testing lab from Evasion
I apologize for double posting, but a line from the report fell under my eye and couldn't resist:
Obtain highly restricted industrial food testing "kits†only available to the food manufacturing industry
This is just conspiracy theorism; you can find half a dozen enterprises selling food kits for allergens googling 5 minutes. If you cannot by them from the pharmacy next door it is for safety reasons: not using a kit properly could cause the death of an allergic subject.
Yet I bet having an university email address is more than sufficient qualification to buy a few. Saying they are "highly restricted" is, in my opinion, just boasting.
All this does not mean that the "vegan" food does NOT contain ingredients of animal origin. Although I'm not fully convinced by this research, I think there is need for further investigation, by more qualified professionals, to either clear the charge or confirm it.
Trying to make a research appear more reliable than it is, by playing the evil-corporation emotional card is not beneficial to any side.
As someone said some people chose vegan not out of ethical reason but out of medical reason and no, to reply to PAULATZ, soy lecithin is not the same as egg lecithin, it is a different protein. I will test positive for egg lechitin not for soy… Also Casein in food industry is always, as far as I know from dairy origin,and as an allergen (the protein) subject to the compulsory (in EU) mention "contains milk". Some one with food allergy could die for this omission animal origin or not, specially if it is not a listed ingredient.
another Italian, female and physicist
The amount of close-minded people flinging generalizations around on boing boing these days is astounding. I feel like I'm on the O'Reilly Factor message boards or something.
I had an Italian sub at a vegan sub shop. Once. It was passable once I added 1/2 a pound of cheese and slathered in it in mayo. In my mind, Vegans are the same as Born Again Christians. Both have made lifestyle choices that work for them and both figure that if it works for them it gives them the right to be obnoxious about it to everybody who hasn't made the same lifestyle choice as they have. See also: non-smokers who believe that one whiff of second hand smoke will give them cancer.
jeremy, I think you answered your own question..
Also, if these meat substitute products are being made in Taiwan, it's quite possible the workers are being treated like animals.
#21, Daemon:
It was much better when "organic" meant "contained carbon molecules"
It was much better when "organic" meant "pertaining to an organ" before those pesky 19th century scientists started using it for their peculiar branch of chemistry.
(Oh, and it's carbon atoms, not molecules, by the way).
I can't think of any other animals that have worked out anything close to agriculture.
Leaf Cutter Ants:
#48 – Well said. I think fake meat can be a nice transitional tool for people giving up meat, so making anyone feel bad about it is counterproductive (though the whole "if you like fake meat, you're a hypocrite" thing is something I hear more often from meat-eaters).
Dunno about eggs but that food certainly contains high levels of 'looks like shit'.
JeremyMarseille said:
I tell my friends, eating eggs is sort of like eating a woman's monthly period
If that don't convince them Jel, I guess nothing will.
@Clif Marsiglio
Do you and your Bhudist friend also occasionally rape and murder so as to properly be 'part of the world?' There are plenty of differences between eating meat and murdering/assualting people, but the 'being part of the world' excuse doesn't track those differences. It's just a lame way of justifying doing something you want to do even though you yourself think it's wrong.
You don't have to think of yourself as separate from nature in order to exercise your powers of choice in ways that other beings are either unable or unwilling to. There's no mysterious mysticism involved in setting standard for my own behavior that differ from the behavior I observe in others animals (including other humans).
I guess I´ve been a Ovo-Lacto flextarian all along, then. Huh.
Usually, I´ve been passing myself off as either a strict vegetarian, or as "just-a-regular-person-who-doesn´t-enyoy-meat", depending of what I wanted to get out of the situation.
Some of you kids don´t even remember this, but only a few years ago, the consumption of meat was a black-and-white issue to many people. There were only two camps that you were allowed to belong to.
Unless you would go full PETA and cry outrage everytime you met someone in leather shoes, people just wouldn't take you seriously when you tried to order your soup without bacon slizes in it.
Today there is finally room for a little more diversity on the food front, and I, for one, am reveling in it.
Tha beeing said, the entire concept of "mock-meat" DOES come with an inherent layer of hypocrisy. If the succulent flavour of a dead animal is really all that important to you, why not just go out and enyoy the real thing instead of simulating it?
Also, am I the only one to remember Hufu?
@Brett B.: "…t
he amount of close-minded people flinging generalizations around on boing boing these days is astounding…"
Ain't it great?! Some shmuck blurts out some obsurdity, someone yells "Dog pile!", and it's on!
It's like a museum of opinions, except you are allow to carry things home with you.
Not much flaming here, compared to other places I've been.
@ Clif "Ya know, this is one of the odd things to me, most proclaimed Vegetarians and Vegans I've known were outspoken atheists…and the outspokenness was directly correlated to the care in their dietary intake.
It was always at great odds that I could understand them…they subscribed directly to this philosophy you put out, but this is one that almost requires a higher power to place humans into the special category. "
Humans are surely natural creatures, and in that sense, not exceptional. However, our evolution has also resulted in a cognitive and technical/productive capacity which allows us the option to do things for reasons not purely related to natural necessity (i.e. survival). A cat, for example, does not have this luxury. Human "exceptionalism" has nothing to do with a higher power, but rather is rooted in the quirk of our own natural/social development.
i think the problem is that this meat substitute is made for the Buddhist " Shojin Ryori " diet which allows eggs and milk but not meat , garlic or onion
Kieran O'Neill @ 22, et al:
Yeah, I was wondering why the Vegans invest so much time trying to find veggie chicken. Why not just eat veggie, er, veggies?
[Um, 'cuz they have no idea how to cook?]
/There is lots of cuisine, from old established cultures, that don't use animal products. Learn how to cook their recipes, vegans! Buying pre-cooked-wrapped-manufactured 'vegan' foodstuffs distorts your relationship with food.
(What happened to the 'eat local' part of veganism?)
something always bothered me about "veggie burgers." there's something profoundly wrong about craving the taste and texture of murdered animals, but none of the guilt. that and faux leather and faux fur. it's faux food.
and i'm not speaking to those somehow allegric to meat, im talking about the ones who chose to opt out because they're fundamentally opposed to animals treated like that, but still crave their meat in a clear conscious sort of way.
…meanwhile those poor bastards with serious lactose intolerence have been forced to deal with "sort of" cheese, ice cream, and milk.
cruel, cruel world.
However, I think it's important to at least recognize how inherently violent farming is.
This goes for cultivation of plants as well. Most farmers are ruthless when it comes to wiping out pests that might otherwise consume or damage crops. Everything from weevils to gophers. I'm not trying to call anyone a hypocrite, just pointing out that there is no aspect of our existence that does not involve the suffering of other living things.
@Pantograph, would "Vacationing Vegan" be an acceptable term, along the lines of "Lipstick Lesbian"?
This whole idea of "mock meat" being supposedly hypocritical reminds me of Margret Atwood's technophobic "Oryx and Crake", where Atwood clearly thought the idea of cultured chicken meat (without a brain or anything to suffer) was somehow horribly awful, when any rational human being would see it as removing the ethical objection to meat.
when any rational human being would see it as removing the ethical objection to meat.
ANY rational human?
Ha, Scott Pilgrim's Vegan Police coming true.
Citizen journalism's great and all, but a professional journalist would've done the same story in 1,200 words—and 1,200 readable words, too. (Okay, maybe 1,500 words.)
@14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexitarianism
And I'm becoming one too. ^_^
Many of these products are made with Whey too, and I find they're still labelled as "Vegan".
@jerkzilla, clif:
Hmmm. I eat meat, I'm an atheist, and although I don't smoke, I have no objection to smoking. What's the connection supposed to be between atheists and vegans? Or was that just a correlation in your experience?
I really don't understand the whole vegetarian/vegan/organic/natural thing. Or things.
Yeah, I know what they are, I just don't understand the reasoning no matter how often I hear it.
I like meat. I like eggs (in fact, the whole objection to eggs seems really wacky: an unfertilized egg will never hatch, ever). I continue to point out that "organic" is a woeful misuse of the term (bag of corn chips A is just as organic as bag of corn chips B, no matter what marketing terms you use. They're both made from corn, which, last I checked, is a living thing, and hence, organic), where something like "pesticide-free" is more honest and less snooty. And everything that exists, by the very fact of its existence, is natural. I've never seen one thing which existed outside of nature. I've never been there myself.
yeah, often run into a dead end with that and vegans. After all the excellent arguments against eating animals are made and heard, they just stop when cultured meat is mentioned. They have nothing but "ickky".
#28 – it's because eggs are an animal PRODUCT. There's also the chance that they're fertilised. But mainly because they come from an animal, regardless than the animal didn't die to produce it. Same principle applies to honey, no bees died to make it but vegans will not eat it (or wear wool).
as to the "inherent violence" of farming. I defy anyone to try scratching a living out of raw land and last one winter without deciding a little violence in the face of good old Mother Nature isn't a good idea after all. Even nomadic hunter gatherers who grew a few tubers didn't hesitate to burn whole savannas.
Um, gee, let's see. Maybe because most vegetarians and vegans choose to lead that lifestyle because they either a) abhorr the idea of eating animals or b) for health reasons.
"Mock meat" is not healthy, and it's basically designed to simulate eating meat. If a vegan/vegetarian has to simulate eating meat, then imho they could rightly be called a hypocrite. Eat meat, or eat vegetables. Don't eat a hybridised frankenfood that is a steady road to obesity or coeliac disease.
Also, see @31
"evolution has also resulted in a cognitive and technical/productive capacity which allows us the option to do things for reasons not purely related to natural necessity"
You mean, we evolved into a way that is most productive to our survival? You don't say!
Our cognitive abilities allowed us to develop in a way that our physical nature didn't allow. At the same time, most mammals possess a good deal of the same traits we do, in varying numbers and strengths, based on what their needs were to survive.
Most mammals, contrary to your statement, have luxuries in their lives that have little to do with pure survival…or at least as the primary result. Play is an activity almost all mammals have. Play teaches us the lessons and skills for future obstacles and how to route around them. This works the same for animals. Mating rituals are often bizarre and take the form of tests of skill to prove the most qualified. Humans and other mammals have similar rituals.
Almost nothing a human does is truly only out of pure enjoyment…it is there to propagate the species…just as mammals show similar cognitive functions, basic emotions, and even long term planning.
In a lot of ways, we are far less efficient than the average animal because of our 'advantages'.
Our exceptionalism is that of us thinking we are better than the animal world, when we aren't…the longer I study humanity (I am a graduate researcher in psych), the less I feel we should be in the habit of judging ourselves as anything more than just another animal that has evolved to the point we need what we have to reproduce inefficiently…
I'd never become a vegetarian or vegan myself but man some of you people are being insensitive pricks. There are lifestyle choices other than your own, imagine that.
Not only is a business being called on its BS which is part of the function of journalism at its purest, a good thing whether you agree with veganism or not, but you're also discounting the people who have vegan diets for medical reasons and thus this food could be harmful to them.
They have a great life: grain, grass, veggie clippings, etc, and they just naturally drop 7 to 10 eggs a week in their little nest. As I tell my friends, eating eggs is sort of like eating a woman's monthly period; you are using a natural resource that would go to waste otherwise.
Whoa. And I bet the flock to your dinner parties!
as people already mentioned, one of the problems is that the male chicks are killed at birth because they are of no value to a farmer.
But another problem is simply that you are deciding what is best for these animals, when it may very well not be in their best interest. Chickens (or cows, or other animals) might not want to be in the very small confined area that you provide them. They might want – like most BoingBoing readers – freedom, the ability to make their own decisions and live a life free of interference by us.
Just because you like meat and eggs is not a justification, because there are lots of things that people like that are harmful to themselves, to others, and to the planet. And the objection to eggs thing isn't so much because of fertilization, it's because of the confinement of chickens, treating them as our property, and most notably the absolutely horrendous treatment they receive in factory farms.
@ Jonathan Badger #75:
I'm not a vegetarian, but I can see how "mock meat" could offend the sensibilities of someone who thinks all animal life deserves reverence and protection.
Think of it this way: how would you feel if someone offered you a dish purported to taste just like a human baby?
"i.e. You no longer subscribe to human exceptionalism."
Ya know, this is one of the odd things to me, most proclaimed Vegetarians and Vegans I've known were outspoken atheists…and the outspokenness was directly correlated to the care in their dietary intake.
It was always at great odds that I could understand them…they subscribed directly to this philosophy you put out, but this is one that almost requires a higher power to place humans into the special category.
It is almost as hypocritical as the notion some religious / political groups have that one must love and respect the wishes of their god, yet, also demand with the same veracity the right to own weapons that go directly against the same teachings. I can accept one belief or the other, but not both at the same time.
Just an observation, nothing more…as I've noted, I'm a hypocrite about this and many other things…I've made peace with my cognitive dissonance years ago!
If you don't want animals to die for your food, you can't eat eggs unless you raise chickens yourself, from eggs.
What do you think happens to all the male chicks at the farm? You think the farmer with a hundred thousand chickens in a barn wants to pay to feed non-producing chickens? What do you think happens to the chickens when they stop producing eggs at a zippy fast rate?
I bet a lot more chickens die as a result of egg production than cows die as a result of beef production.
I'm not a vegan/vegetarian, nor do I feel too much sympathy for an animal as loathsome as a chicken. However, I think it's important to at least recognize how inherently violent farming is.
There's also Fishetarian, a Vegetarian who also eats fish (like myself).
As to the world being full of veggo food that looks like meat, it makes it easier to have interesting meals with different variations. I cannot tell you how much I hate getting roasted vegetables when I order a 'veggie burger', when what I want is sliced tomato, lettuce, beetroot, cheese, mayo, sweet chili sauce, with a pattie made of vegetable stuff, on a bun. Hot dog bun with a veggie hot dog, tomato sauce, mayo, and chopped tomato? Love it!
There's even a veggie-roast thing you can get here in Australia that's interesting. Not genius, but interesting. I do miss Big Franks though. They're jumbo-sized veggie hot dogs made by Worthington foods, and are Delicious!
One day I'll write a veggie-burger lover's guide to the world and make my fortune.
Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.
It is interesting how some people are obsessed with trying to 're-educate' vegetarians. They just have this big chip on their shoulder when the topic comes up, even in innocuous circumstances. I avoid mentioning it in mixed company because there is often some bore who wants to list all the bumper stickers slogans and then try to find all the loopholes in your personal eating choice. Fortunately it seems that most people agree on how tiresome these people are and the topic changes quickly.
Personally I don't eat meat. I don't like how the animals are treated during their lifetime and I don't think any animal should have to die when I can just as easily eat something else. I am as fallible as anyone else and have probably had things with some meat product, but I am doing the best I can and I feel that is a worthwhile effort.
Fake meat is tasty, and for the most part no critter was killed. I see no hypocrisy – I don't even see how someone else sees a hypocrisy. It's just a form of food that is convenient and enjoyable to me.
we have the tech to be citizen-journalists. How about the tech to be citizen-lab technicians? Perhaps a bio-hacker created home test for the presence of say, animal protein?
This is borderline trolling, but the discussion reminded me of this photo.
(,meanwhile, back in Thailand, a factory supervisor in stained white coat is looking quizzically at an angry export agent and saying "Oh, it's OK! For them I make lamb!"
I ate at a 'vegan' restaurant in Montreal once, and I remember thinking that the fake meat didn't taste fake at all.
@DSAC86: My statement that I like meat and eggs was not intended as a justification, but a statement of my position: That I am not a vegetarian, vegan, etc. I could have said, "I am a meat-eater." But to follow that with "egg-eater" would sound really silly.
My justification, if I need one, is that, as with being an atheist, and so many other positions I take that have some (arguable) moral component to them, I don't ascribe morality to animals. I barely ascribe it to people. But since people are the only animals that talk (in words) about morality, I assume that they have it. I have no direct experience with the morality of non-humans, so assigning moral sense to them seems a bit of a stretch.
I don't find killing non-humans to be immoral, and am even open to the possibility that killing humans might not always be immoral either.
Death is very much a part of life.
Wow. I changed horses in mid-sentence.
My justification was going to be that I don't let other people tell me what my morals should be. That's the umbrella one in "as with being an atheist…"
The animals thing was for the meat thing.
I got in a hurry and stopped paying attention to what I was saying.
1st, thanks to Boing Boing and Cory for posting this! The best news in LA comes from someone living in London. Go figure.
The core argument for veganism (and sub-sets like macrobiotics) is about getting more energy from your food w/out involving death (i.e. murder). Granted that lettuce is alive and carrying on cellular respiration and photosynthesis right up until the moment the stomach acids take it apart. Even active yeast is a type of 'mushroom' that eats sugar and 'secretes' CO2. I originally became a vegetarian to not eat anything w/a face, my running joke is that I wouldn't want to accidentally eat a relative.
Vegan Express is pretty good but also has french fries and sugary foods. I was once taken to a Chinese 'vegan' place in SoCal w/100s of items including exotics like fish eyeballs and intestines, etc. (made from wheat). About as appetizing as eating a chicken's period if you ask me. :)
I wouldn't care — why should I if no baby was harmed? That's what I mean about rationality. On the other hand, there are people who want to criminalize Japanese comics with drawings of nude children in them despite any rational person understanding that the drawing is *fictional*.
"re-educate vegetarians"? Ja! Ze vill learn in ze camps!
Actually, I think "ickky" is as good a reason as any not to eat meat. Granted, it does not make for a very good argument when you want to convince somebody else not to eat meat.
@Jonathan Badger:
One other reason why "mock-meat" might be considered hypocritical is because it obviusly uses a lot more of our resources to process a bunch of soy beans into looking and tasting like beef, than it would to just cook and eat the beans allready. So those who are vegans out of concern for the environment might actually wanna replace the mock meat with the real deal.
I think the bottom line for me is that mock-meat is not a necessity, not to anyone, anywhere. It is an indulgence, plain and simple. Wich it why it becomes downright hilarious when people write about the stuff as if it actually matters.
One other reason why "mock-meat" might be considered hypocritical is because it obviusly uses a lot more of our resources to process a bunch of soy beans into looking and tasting like beef, than it would to just cook and eat the beans allready. So those who are vegans out of concern for the environment might actually wanna replace the mock meat with the real deal.
It OBVIOUSLY does not use a lot more of our resources to make a Boca Burger than a beef burger. Animals raised for food consume about 80% of all the soy, corn and grain crops grown. Livestock production is one largest contributors to climate change, through the clearing of forests for grazing land, the transport of cattle, the amount of water livestock raising requires, etc… But don't take my word for it, the UN Food & Agriculture Organization is the one that state livestock production is an environmental hazard.
Replace it with the real deal…are you serious?? Yes, it would be more efficient to just cook and eat the beans. It's also more efficient to not eat the meat.
Also, I would eat cultured meat, for the record.
As someone who is allergic to shellfish, I find this disturbing. I usually consider vegetarian/vegan dishes to be "safe" because I assume that a certain amount of care will be taken to make sure that no animal products (including the ones that could kill me) get into the food. I'm already rather picky about restaurants (no Thai for me, as many dishes contain shrimp paste) so this is just giving me new fodder for panic.
when direct neural stimulation is refined to the point that any taste and flavor can be virtually experienced – some will still be scowling from the sidelines.
Some random observations about the vegan community from someone marrying a vegan and who lives in LA and is familiar with many of the vegan restaurants in the study (and might have had the author over at his house once, I don't remember):
1) The vegan community is divided into cliques and small groups just like every other community. There is a whole group of friendly positive-reinforcement vegans who don't get in people's faces and just try to lead by example and live their lives the best they can, support the causes they want to support, etc. There are the hard and fast in your face vegans that the stereotype seems to apply to that really take the "activist" part of the lifestyle seriously. And there are people in the middle. There are vegans who won't eat at restaurants at all, there are vegans who don't eat mock meat (like my fiancee), there are as many types of vegans as there are gamers. Let's not lump them all together.
2) That having been said, I have found that the amount of needling, questioning of beliefs, and debate that vegans have to deal with on account of nonvegans who want to question them is FAR greater than the amount of scrutiny nonvegans have to deal with in the company of vegans. More than religion, politics, movie taste, or any other subject, what people choose to eat is probably the single most intensely personal subject you can talk about, at least it seems that way considering how much random unmotivated defensiveness vegans have to deal with. It gets so bad that a lot of vegans I know refuse to label their own food that they bring to potlucks vegan, or to say they're vegan to strangers because they know they'll get shit about it. Living with a vegan really opens your eyes about who the touchy people in your life are regarding food.
3) A lot of those Thai vegan places are commonly known not to be vegan at all and many vegans stay away anyway. The only real surprise on that study is Pure Luck, who I imagine are just as surprised and will quickly figure out where in the chain this stuff is coming in. I was also surprised to find that Vegan Express was okay, I always thought it wasn't 100%.
I'm not interested in raining on anyone's parade or challenging their beliefs / mores / choices.
But among my many activities, I do work in an "organic" (e.g., no chemical fertilizers, pesticides, etc) garden.
Gardening involves massive, orchestrated murder. I have to kill thousands of aphids with my bare hands. Oh, I could spray soap or neem, but that'd kill or drive away the ladybugs and bees and other beneficials as well. I have to squash snails. I have to crush catydids. I have to net off the tree to prevent the squirrels and birds from eating the fruit — which also prevents nesting and benevolent hunting of bugs. So I end up doing a lot of the bug hunting part myself.
The friendly neighborhood cat who wanders through happily murders mice and other small rodents, and I thank him.
Also, the end result is the uprooting of healthy, living plants and devouring them, or depriving them of their reproductive organs, or stripping them of their leaves, or …
Unfortunate as we may find it, to live is to kill.
(and this leaves out the whole world of micro-organisms, bacteria, fungi, and more)
dsac86 – "Just because you like meat and eggs is not a justification, because there are lots of things that people like that are harmful to themselves, to others, and to the planet."
When you argue harm "to others, and to the planet", you have a point. But you lost me at "harmful to themselves".
Harming myself is my right, as is my telling you to take your self-righteousness about that fact and stuff it somewhere private.
It's not too big a deal that the food had traces most mock meat does but you have to check on line with the manufacture (even if its certified Vegan) to see if it has small about or traces, but this is miss labeled food of two of the most common food allergies Egg and Dairy!
LOL, ok thank you for that… made my day. The fact that "vegans" ever think that they could become "vegan" has always been absurd to me. the only way you could never eat anything that was a living animal is to eat stuff that has been irradiated, and if you irradiate something you kill the small animals that are on the food, and that stuff we most likely still be ON the food. Even picking up sticks and twigs and trying to produce enough nutrition from that, is killing animals that would be decaying the fallen piece you are trying to consume. So vegetarianism, i don't understand but i DO see, vegans are just jokes, plan and simple. Also, it is an unattainable goal, as well as just mostly unhealthy to those practicing. I try and live by Michael Pollan's words "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." and i stress the mostly part of that last statement. Also, i throw in as local and organic as possible, but i have seen a lot of reports about, if you are not growing it all yourself then it can turn out to be an ecological wash.
I eat meat, but I feel bad about it. I eat it a lot less than I used to, but sometimes damn, I just want some bacon, you know? Which is why I personally CAN NOT WAIT for cultured meat to become an economically viable alternative. Not just because it's meat without having to kill an animal but because of the potential to make really cool new products never seen in nature. Like foot-wide abalone salmon sheet bacon that makes its own Lipitor. Come on people, let's get that inventive spirit flowing.
Calling a vegan/vegetarian a hypocrite for eating fake meat makes about as much sense as calling a violent video game player a hypocrite for not going out and actually murdering people. A vegan diet means you don't eat animal products. That's it. If you want to argue about the virtues of processed food, fine, but don't tie it to some made-up bullshit code of honor I supposedly agreed to just because I don't consume animal products.
Despite the fact that vegan/vegetarianism is often contained in arguments of health and personal ethics, these aren't the only factors to consider. In this age of energy crises, it makes a lot of sense to talk about alternative methods of power than fossil fuels, cutting energy consumption, going green, etc.. I find it baffling, then, that despite the fact that a 2006 United Nations initiative concluded that "the livestock sector emerges as one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global.", people still see it beneficial to raise animals for food. A whopping 18% of TOTAL carbon dioxide greenhouse gas emissions come from animal agriculture. For comparison's sake, all transportation combined only equals 13.5% Think about that…For all of the hoopla and ink spilled on "clean" cars it's a far less serious issue than eating hamburgers, despite the fact that we've already "engineered" a way to greatly reduce that 18% (HINT: it starts with a "V"). Furthermore, consider that half of our freshwater, 90% of our soy, 80% of our corn, and 70% of our grains are all wasted annually so people can "have it their way". While it's certainly true that a massive vegetarian diet wouldn't be a total fix for all of these problems, there is little doubt that raising fruits, grains, and vegetables is many times more efficient than raising an equal amount of energy in meat, and requires far fewer natural resources.
This is without even getting into the ethical concerns of eating something that doesn't want to die. I'm not trying to get all metaphysical, as I understand that we must consume living things to survive. You're not going to convince me, however, that the hypothetical tragedy of carrots is somehow equatable with that of pigs or cows. One guy on here was even bringing up microscopic bacteria. Give me a break.
I also find it telling that in comment sections like these, it's usually the vegans/vegetarians that are defending why they choose not to eat meat. It can go both ways. I would strongly contend that not only is eating meat not mandatory for survival in the modern world, it's also one our biggest catastrophes. For a change, why don't you omnivores defend the reasons why you find it necessary, despite all of the inherent waste, to eat butchered animals?
It seems logical to me that somewhere in the future we'll be cultivating undersea crops. With the leaps in genetic manipulations lately, maybe we'll come up with tasty, protein-rich stuff that grows fast without a lot of fuss (expense) that we can all enjoy without conscience issues.
Milovoo: I don't want to "re-educate" vegetarians, but I don't want them trying to "re-educate" me, either. I respect their choice, even if I don't get it. I'm not a meat evangelist, but I've had a lot of vegetarians try to convert me. It's irritating whoever it comes from. I don't try to convert theists to non-belief, either, but I'm often called on to defend my position.
If you weren't talking about me, specifically, then never mind.
And the resource-management issue makes a better argument , to me, than the don't-hurt-the-animals one. I'd like to see some numbers on how much of the world's food supply is consumed by
America, compared to how much is repaid, somehow.
Back in the 60s or 70s, there was a place in LA that made these famous chocolate milk shakes that were incredibly rich and creamy and delicious but only had like ten calories. The glitterati flocked there to enjoy guilt-free pleasure. Until somebody started putting on weight and took one to a lab for testing. Of course, it was just a normal 1,500 calorie milk shake. People in Tinseltown want to believe.
Deep in our core, Man wants to be Big Macho Hunter. Big Macho eats first off his kill, and he loves having the meat juice smeared on his beard.
Being omnivores, we can eat plants, roots and grubs too, but eating bushes means you're a lousy hunter. I think that's why it has always been so hard to get us boys to eat our vegetables.
Milov and Moof – the Brothers Oo =)
"My God… it's full of eggs!"
Ocker3, it's called pescetarianism.
It's also not a form of vegetarianism, as fish is an animal and eating its flesh constitutes eating meat.
"Hey, I'll tell you what, chubbs, if that yogurt has fat in it, I will put myself on an all-yogurt diet for a week."
"Well, let's start the insanity."
"Mmmmmm…. giddyup!"
"Hey, I'll tell you what, chubbs, if that yogurt has fat in it, I will put myself on an all-yogurt diet for a week."
"Well, let's start the insanity."
"Mmmmmm…. giddyup!"
Hmm, should I foward this article to a devoutly vegan friend of mine or not. Tough call.
I would suggest checking for kosher, but kosher isn't perfect for helping check for vegetarian-ess. "Kosher dairy" might still have milk, eggs, and fish. "Kosher parve" might still have eggs and fish.
In the UK they have inspected labels for vegetarian and vegan on products. I assume these are pretty reliable.
I've never seen less healthy-looking people than the customers and employees of a health food store.
Also, it seems that vegans don't really care about their sodium intake. Vegan food is the saltiest food on earth.
Kitten taste awesome. Kitten ribs are the best.
Well, I still think it was kitten that time, pretty hard to tell exactly in China.
To summarize 60% of the thread posts:
"These people don't eat the way I think they should eat. That's because they are stupid and wrong!"
(and do note that's the non-vegans lambasting the vegans, rather than the other way round, you who'd cite the example of the overly activist vegan you knew briefly in college years ago).
I've been calling this amazing "amateur" journalism–but I like your "citizen journalism" better. Seriously impressive.
And all us Ovo-Lacto Vegetarians have a problem with this, how?
Mister Moofoo: I don't want to "re-educate" vegetarians, but I don't want them trying to "re-educate" me, either. I respect their choice, even if I don't get it.
I wasn't specifically talking about you, there are people on both sides of the issue who just go on and on and on (like Christianity, Palestine, abortion and several other things) because they feel attacked when the issue is even mentioned. There are people who just start off thinking you are the same as every other vegetarian they have met. It's best to get to know someone before deciding if they are worthy of derision. Personally, I find I am often surprised how reasonable most people are.
Oh ~~no~~. The Horror of eating traces of egg.
Results like this are the reason why I never eat out anymore. I have gluten and casein intolerance, and I experience days if not weeks of terrible pain and discomfort if I have an exposure. Unfortunately, most places, even ones who think they are "doing it right", often aren't or just don't care- as far as they are concerned, if you didn't keel over at the table, everything must be fine.
I understand not eating meat for ethical reasons, or environmental reasons, or health reasons (although this as a basis for strict adherence is not really justifiable), but I don't get the "can't eat what's prepared in the same dishes" stuff. I mean, I guess if it's a religion, that's the end of all discussion. But if not? Over the history of the planet, the atoms in that celery you're eating have been part of probably millions of different animals. The "must not be tainted, eliminate all trace" thing seems like kind of a lost cause, no?
"Big Macho Hunter"? It is precisely this type of mentality that has caused this problem in the 1st place. Like an earlier poster said, this is about evolution. I mean, I was born breach but I don't exit buildings via the window. ;)
Keep the Citizen Journalism going – more vegan coverage!!!
Why the heck wasn't gelatin part of the test?
(How ironical is it that the Captcha test for this was "koshered Data"?!)
"And all us Ovo-Lacto Vegetarians have a problem with this, how?"
I don't think they are…honestly, when I was a veg, the vegans were the most obnoxious bunch…which was pretty hard considering *WE* were smarmier and more self-righteous than any group other than them! I gave up the practice when my life was endangered due to lack of protein and the fact that we aren't separate from the food chain. We are just animals ourselves and animals are brutal to one another in their quest for existence.
It's really funny when vegetarians or vegans eat meat and cheese substitutes and then have horrible bowel problems. That crap is all crap. Maybe less scary than the meat industry, but still crap.
^ Many animals (including closely related primates) can survive just fine on a vegetarian diet.
Protein deficiency is quite rare in any developed country. Furthermore, many of the best sources of protein (hemp seed being a prime example) are vegetarian.
One can have an unhealthy vegetarian diet just as one can have a healthy diet that includes animal products.
It's important to have accurate ingredient labels on products.
I think veganism is noble, but kind of irrational. But if I finished a meal and the host said "by the way, you just ate KITTEN" I would be pretty upset. I can see why they would want to know what they're eating.
I think are animals are more important than a little salt intake and I have seen very healthy looking people in the health food store I go to. for the person who said he was in danger from lack of protein, ever try peanuts or mixed nuts?
Heh yeah, eating fish instantly disqualifies you from any sort of "vegetarian" claim. Sorry..
oh, I see. so Opting to not eat meat means you have to dislike the TASTE of meat, not just the practice of eating it?
Making that judgement call isn't right. It's not up to you to determine whether a person's decision to not eat meat is "right" or "wrong." There's nothing even REMOTELY hypocritical about liking the flavor but choosing not to eat meat for ethical reasons. Not that meat "substitutes" even taste like meat or resemble it in just about any way in most cases anyway. It's just a way to replace the more "substantive" part of a dish or a meal with something that doesn't involve the death of animals. Seems reasonable to me, yes?
#28 the one vegan I do know has found pretty much every brand of free range chicken just outright kills the hens when they get too old to produce. She recently found an acquaintence of hers who raises hens as a hobby and doesn't kill them and has started getting/eating those eggs, tho.
@ Clif Marsiglio: That's a great way to give up vegetarianism without a dent in your moral righteousness. I'm impressed.
Vegan here. It's a personal decision I made two years ago because I felt consuming animal products went against my values in most cases. I find the three gems of Taoism sum it up pretty well:
- compassion: I make an effort to avoid needless suffering;
- moderation: I make an effort to use less;
- humility: my species is not necessarily more valuable than other species, and I should refrain from treating other species poorly when it's not necessary – typically with the excuse of "it's not us so it's OK".
There are limits and exceptions to my veganism, but they don't apply when I'm in Montreal (and in many other places), given the amount of choice I have in what I can eat here.
I make a point not to proselytize (although I poke the occasional fun at people who drink cow juice and eat chicken periods), but there are people – non-vegans and non-vegetarians – who go out of their way to nitpick at whatever inconsistencies there might be in my choices – these people piss me off. Especially when they're people who don't give a damn about making the world a better place.
This being said, meat is tasty. And beating up people I hate is also very satisfying. But I think both are wrong, so I won't do it.
As a side note, if we ever meet a sentient, alien species, I hope that they will be a species that treats other species better than we do. Otherwise, we're in deep doo-doo – we would be, after all, a different (possibly less intelligent) species than them.
Not a vegan, but if someone is advertising as such when they're not they should be called on it.
Hell, I can't even trust the vast majority of food producers using "natural" or "organic" on the label because the definitions have been perverted by legislation into something that allows unnatural ingredients to be labelled as such. Yup. High fructose corn syrup is "natural". Squeezed it fresh outta the corn this morning. Mmmmmm… tasty!
Buyer beware, and good on those that make the effort to expose those that have no qualms about lying to their customers to make a buck.
Is there a name for relaxed individuals who don't mind the odd egg or porkchop in a mostly vegan diet?
Because I think I'm turning into one of those.
@all the posters who think eating mock meat is hypocritical.
There are only so many textures that food can come in. And most vegetarians/vegans started out life eating meat and then made a choice to stop. It's natural (and instinctual) to eat things that are familiar to you. Our brains are programmed to reject unfamiliar tastes and textures to prevent us from poisoning ourselves. That's why you aqcuire a taste for some things. That's why many westerners don't want chunks of stuff in their drinks or gag at gelatinous Chinese mushrooms or Japanese blowfish.
Just because your meat politics / ethics are against killing things doesn't mean you should give up what you are accustomed to. Sure, fake meat is unnatural, sure, it's cheating. But what's natural? How many meat eaters hunt their own food? You're eating factory farmed, steroid-fed, processed packaged meat and I'm eating processed, packaged fake meat, so get off my back.
From the comments above, it seems that people are unaware that there are folks that are dietary vegan for medical reasons. It's like buying something labeled peanut-free when you have a peanut allergy. The package must be correct, or people can become ill or die.
Isn't it shocking to anyone but me that nature-oriented and, I suppose, Eco-concerned people as vegans don't mind if their meatless chicken travels thousands of miles to reach their plates? It's much easier to read the labels from locally grown fruit, veggies, and cereal…
Oh the humanity.
If you're that fastidious about your food intake, prepare it yourself. I'm not a big fan of rat feces but I live with the fact that food I buy from my local grocer may contain a bit of it. It won't hurt you.
As a vegan, I have to be very careful of where I ate and what foods I bought. You learn to read labels. I have never found a reliably vegan "cheese" type product, but why would I want cheese or replacement meat products as a vegan? It's breads and pastas that are in the grey area when it comes to restaurants. There is only one restaurant in Atlanta I trust to serve me anything on the menu that they label as vegan.
On vacation, a family member cooked something for me with chicken stock. I was pretty upset when I found out, and uncomfortable later on in the evening. I was yelled at for refusing to eat what he cooked while I was still there, because he refused to use vegetable broth (which he'd have to buy rather than make, as in the chicken stock).
I would be upset if there was an unlabeled meat-derived product in something that was presented to me as vegan or vegetarian. Just as if I had a wheat allergy, and I bought a gluten-free product that turned out to have wheat gluten in it.
@ Clif Marsiglio:
By the way, that's a fairly self-righteous attitude as well. If you want to lump all of us in together based on our diet choices, then yeah, most vegans are fanatics. Not all of us.
I'm a bit of a hypocrite (I wear leather shoes and wool clothing), so I'm not trying to point any fingers.
want to educate your self on the restaurant biz. go to youtube. watch kitchen nightmares (uk version). all the swearing is left in (no bleeping) my only question is where are the health inspectors ?. they are either blind or crooked. some of these places havent been cleaned in years. thanks chef ramsay i wont eat in restaurants ever again.
@ #22
Gujaratis typically eat dairy – not vegan.
Latin American people that eat almost all rice and beans and corn do so out of poverty, and those that do almost always use small amounts of animal flesh and fat to flavor their food even if they can't afford cuts of meat.
I would *severely* question the scientific credentials of the reporters, as their experiment appears to have been designed and conducted rather poorly. For starters, are there any legitimately vegan ingredients that could register a false-positive on these tests?
What is the effectiveness of the testing kits that they used? Why were they afraid to disclose the manufacturer of said kits?
They also don't do a terribly good job of defining what a "HIGH" reading actually correlates to. In fact, their control group test determined that any meal actually containing casein or shellfish would register an "OVERLOAD" result, instead of the "HIGH" result that they somehow concluded was a positive indicator of a non-vegan ingredient. Only one item in the experimental group actually produced an "OVERLOAD" result — no concrete baseline for the "HIGH" result was ever established.
The egg test appears even more suspect, as the meal that was KNOWN TO CONTAIN EGGS delivered an ambiguous result.
I'd consider the results of this survey to be highly suspect, and wouldn't give them much credit. I feel bad for the restaurants who might have had their reputations wrongfully tarnished by an irresponsible piece of "citizen journalism"
It also wasn't fair of them to specifically mention Bodhi by name, especially given that the representatives from the company were truthful, helpful, and asked not to be identified. Given the false and dishonest pretenses under which the "citizen journalists" acquired their information, Bodhi could very easily sue for libel.
They only sure way to maintain a vegan diet is to grow and prepare your own food otherwise it just a lifestyle choice where the enjoyment from food is largely based on thinking the rest of the planet is busting a gut trying to cater for veganism demands.
what if a vegan knowingly eats what they believe to be meat, but is actually mock-meat? At gunpoint?
@ Clif: "At the same time, most mammals possess a good deal of the same traits we do, in varying numbers and strengths, based on what their needs were to survive."
I can't think of any other animals that have worked out anything close to agriculture.
We CAN survive on a non-animal-based diet if we choose. However, this is a choice whose possibility eludes animals for whom meat-eating is required (obligate carnivores, like cats) and for omnivores who do not have a relatively controlled and diverse food source (say, humans before agriculture, and bears).
I can't think of any other animals that have worked out anything close to agriculture.
There are ants who 'farm' aphids and milk them for honeydew, so some animals practice animal husbandry.
@11- Goldmine- Would you be upset because of the dead kitten, or upset because you might discover that you consider kitten to be a wonderfully delicious thing to eat?
Leave a Reply
Tourist Remover photoshops stray tourists out of your snaps -- Boing Boing Gadgets →
← Michael Jackson -- unrecognizable motivations and constant ruination
Read more at Boing Boing
Read more at Boing Boing
Read more at Boing Boing
Tourist Remover photoshops stray tourists out of your snaps -- Boing Boing Gadgets
Over on Boing Boing Gadgets, our Joel's spotted "Tourist Remover," a service that takes the stray tourists out of your shots of famous landmarks.
Lord of the Rings considered as a D&D game -- webcomic
The DM of the Rings is a webcomic that retells The Lord of the Rings as a D&D campaign played by a group of impatient, juvenile (and hilarious) gamers.
Classic arcade game animations in Lego
Michael Hickox's Lego Arcade stop motion animations are fantastic. Check the video at Boing Boing Offworld. "Video: 8-bit arcade classics are back, in Lego form"


text:
GA-4129A, 4130A - Travis, Joseph - December 5, 2012 - Yellow River Game Ranch
In this Wednesday's Child, two brothers get hands-on experience with wildlife at the Yellow River Game Ranch.As FOX 5's Karen Graham shows, the boys are looking for a family who loves the outdoors just as much as they do.
For more information on Travis and Joseph, or on adoption, click here for a link to www.wednesdayschildga.com or call 1-877-210-KIDS (5437).
WTTG FOX 5 & myfoxdc5151 Wisconsin Ave. NWWashington, DC 20016Main Number: (202) 244-5151Newsroom: (202) firstname.lastname@example.com

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Is Chad DTF?
- We're DTF, Are You?
I got to make it out to the track on 11-28 for the Streetwise finale. It was a blast needless to say!
coilovers on the e36. rear settled way more than i wanted, front didnt settle at all
omg lolz
took these pictures a while ago… this is what happens at 430AM in north carolina.
I have 2 words to describe this car.
ball ing!
Welcome to WhoIsDTF.com we are currently prepping cars for an upcomming event.
More Later.


text:
St Andrew's Draft Section Three
Section Three: Our Unity and Common Life
3.1 Each Church of the Communion affirms:
(3.1.1) that by our participation in Baptism and Eucharist, we are incorporated into the one body of the Church of Jesus Christ, and called by Christ to pursue all things that make for peace and build up our common life;
(3.1.2) its resolve to live in a Communion of Churches. Each Church, episcopally led and synodically governed, orders and regulates its own affairs and its local responsibility for mission through its own system of government and law and is therefore described as autonomous-in-communion[9]. Churches of the Anglican Communion are not bound together by a central legislative, executive or judicial authority. Trusting in the Holy Spirit, who calls and enables us to live in mutual affection, commitment and service, we seek to affirm our common life through those Instruments of Communion by which our Churches are enabled to develop a common mind;
(3.1.3) the central role of bishops as guardians and teachers of faith, leaders in mission, and as a visible sign of unity, representing the universal Church to the local, and the local Church to the universal. This ministry is exercised personally, collegially and within and for the eucharistic community. We receive and maintain the historic threefold ministry of bishops, priests and deacons, ordained for service in the Church of God, as they call all the baptised into the mission of Christ;
(3.1.4) the importance of instruments in the Anglican Communion to assist in the discernment, articulation and exercise of our shared faith and common life and mission. In addition to the many and varied links which sustain our life together, we acknowledge four particular Instruments which co-operate in the service of Communion:
- The Archbishop of Canterbury, with whose See Anglicans have historically been in communion, is accorded a primacy of honour and respect as first amongst equals (primus inter pares). As a focus and means of unity, he gathers the Lambeth Conference and Primates' Meeting, and presides in the Anglican Consultative Council;
- The Lambeth Conference, expressing episcopal collegiality worldwide, gathers the bishops for common counsel, consultation and encouragement and serves as an instrument in guarding the faith and unity of the Communion and equipping the saints for the work of ministry and mission[10];
- The Anglican Consultative Council is comprised of laity, clergy and bishops representative of our Provincial synods. It facilitates the co-operative work of the Churches of the Anglican Communion, co-ordinates aspects of international Anglican ecumenical and mission work, calls the Churches into mutual responsibility and interdependence, and advises on developing provincial structures[11];
- The Primates' Meeting is called by the Archbishop of Canterbury for mutual support, prayer and counsel. The Primates and Moderators are called to work as representative of their Provinces in collaboration with one another in mission and in doctrinal, moral and pastoral matters that have communion-wide implications.
3.2 Acknowledging our interdependent life, each Church of the Communion commits itself:
(3.2.1) to have regard to the common good of the Communion in the exercise of its autonomy, and to support the work of the Instruments of Communion with the spiritual and material resources available to it;
(3.2.2) to respect the constitutional autonomy of all of the Churches of the Anglican Communion, while upholding the interdependent life and mutual responsibility of the Churches, and the responsibility of each to the Communion as a whole[12];
(3.2.3) to spend time with openness and patience in matters of theological debate and reflection to listen, pray and study with one another in order to discern the will of God. Such prayer, study and debate is an essential feature of the life of the Church as its seeks to be led by the Spirit into all truth and to proclaim the Gospel afresh in each generation. Some issues, which are perceived as controversial or new when they arise, may well evoke a deeper understanding of the implications of God's revelation to us; others may prove to be distractions or even obstacles to the faith: all therefore need to be tested by shared discernment in the life of the Church.
(3.2.4) to seek with other Churches, through the Communion's shared councils, a common mind about matters understood to be of essential concern, consistent with the Scriptures, common standards of faith, and the canon law of our churches.
(3.2.5) to act with diligence, care and caution in respect to actions, either proposed or enacted, at a provincial or local level, which, in its own view or the expressed view of any Province or in the view of any one of the Instruments of Communion, are deemed to threaten the unity of the Communion and the effectiveness or credibility of its mission, and to consent to the following principles and procedural elements:
(3.2.5.a) to undertake wide consultation with the other churches of the Anglican Communion and with the Instruments and Commissions of the Communion;
(3.2.5.b) to accept the legitimacy of processes for communion-wide evaluation which any of the Instruments of Communion may commission, according to such procedures as are appended to this covenant;
(3.2.5.c) to be ready to participate in mediated conversation between parties, which may be in conflict, according to such procedures as are appended to this covenant;
(3.2.5.d) to be willing to receive from the Instruments of Communion a request to adopt a particular course of action in respect of the matter under dispute. While the Instruments of Communion have no legislative, executive or judicial authority in our Provinces, except where provided in their own laws, we recognise them as those bodies by which our common life in Christ is articulated and sustained, and which therefore carry a moral authority which commands our respect.
(3.2.5.e) Any such request would not be binding on a Church unless recognised as such by that Church. However, commitment to this covenant entails an acknowledgement that in the most extreme circumstances, where a Church chooses not to adopt the request of the Instruments of Communion, that decision may be understood by the Church itself, or by the resolution of the Instruments of Communion, as a relinquishment by that Church of the force and meaning of the covenant's purpose, until they re-establish their covenant relationship with other member Churches.
(3.2.6) to have in mind that our bonds of affection and the love of Christ compel us always to seek the highest possible degree of communion.


text:
Big Hud Song and Mixtape Downloads
Big Hud (Da Heavyweight) - The Long Way Home [Album]
Dallas rhymesayer Big Hud has come together with The DJBooth to bring listeners his latest street release, The Long Way Home. Hosted by DJ Burn One, the project features 15 original cuts from the Slumerican affiliate.... Read More
Big Hud ft. Rittz - I Ride Dirty [Song]
You haven't been properly introduced to a Texan emcee if you don't know the particulars of where, when, what, how and with whom he drives. (The "why," of course, is self-evident.) Dallas rapper Big Hud...Read More


text:
- Home
- Submit News
- Bands
- Streams
- Best New Music
- Interviews
- Tours
- Reviews
- New Releases
- Contact Us
- Login
Videos: The Swellers: "Hands"
The Swellers have posted a video for their song "Hands." The track appears on their Running Out of Places to Go EP, released earlier this year.
News (5 comments)
Please login or register to post comments.What are the benefits of having a Punknews.org account?
the_braces (November 19, 2012)
so good
ivano (November 19, 2012)
Exclusive Streams
Newest Reviews
Punknews.org Team
Managing EditorAdam White
Contributing EditorsKira Wisniewski Brittany Strummer Armando Olivas John Flynn Chris Moran John Gentile
Copy EditorAdam Eisenberg Britt Reiser
Podcast ProducerNariman Shariat
PublisherAubin Paul
ISSN 1710-5366© Copyright 1999-2013 Punknews.org
Terms of Use Privacy Policy Frequently Asked Questions Contact Us About Punknews.org
Other Places to Go


text:
learning to live on one planet with grace and joy
Customize and select a Badge to display on your website.
Welcome toSustainable Wallingford
Sign Upor Sign In
© 2014 Created by Cathy Tuttle.
Powered by
Badges |
Report an Issue |
Terms of Service
Please check your browser settings or contact your system administrator.


text:
Originally published January 9, 2014 at 9:35 PM | Page modified January 9, 2014 at 11:32 PM
Sang-Moon Bae fires 63 for lead at Sony Open
Sang-Moon Bae made seven birdies in pristine conditions along the shores of Oahu for a bogey-free 63 and the lead Thursday in the Sony Open in Honolulu.
Bae fires 63 for lead
Sang-Moon Bae made seven birdies in pristine conditions along the shores of Oahu for a 7-under-par 63 and the lead Thursday at the Sony Open in Honolulu.
Bae needed every birdie to stay ahead of Chris Kirk, who was in his group.
Kirk rallied for a 29 on the back nine of Waialae Country Club and was one shot behind among the early starters in the first full-field event of the year.
Ryan Palmer, coming off a week vacation in Maui, birdied the last two holes for a 65. Brian Stuard made eight birdies in his round of 65. Those were the best scores in the afternoon when a full day of sunshine made the course play faster.
Retief Goosen, finally feeling better after missing another big chunk of the year with back problems, slept awkwardly on his neck and was sore during the pro-am. That apparently healed quickly. He was in the group at 66 with Harris English, Jimmy Walker and John Daly.
Kapalua winner Zach Johnson opened with two bogeys before he settled into a 68. Jordan Spieth, who finished one shot behind Johnson last week in the Tournament of Champions, reached 3 under through 10 holes until he was slowed by a three-putt bogey on No. 12. That was the start of three bogeys in four holes, and the 20-year-old Texan had to settle for a 70.
Former Husky Alex Prugh shot a 69. Michael Putnam from University Place had a 70.
Bradley to join Toronto FC
Roma coach Rudi Garcia said American midfielder Michael Bradley is on the verge of joining Toronto FC.
Italian media reported Roma has accepted an offer of $9.5 million for Bradley, 26, from the Major League Soccer club.
Bradley, a star with the U.S. national team, is in his second season with Roma after joining from Chievo Verona in 2012.
Nadal's draw loaded
Top-ranked Rafael Nadal got a challenging draw at the Australian Open, with Andy Murray, Roger Federer and Juan Martin del Potro all drawn into his half.
Nadal faces Australia's Bernard Tomic in the first round, could meet del Potro in the quarterfinals and then has a potential semifinal against either Murray or Federer.
Three-time defending champion Novak Djokovic is on the other half with third-ranked David Ferrer.
On the women's side, top-ranked Serena Williams opens against Australian teenager Ashleigh Barty and has 2011 U.S. Open champion Sam Stosur and two-time finalist Li Na in her half.
Two-time defending champion Victoria Azarenka and Maria Sharapova are in the opposite half.
Figure skating
Gold wins short program
Gracie Gold easily skated off with the women's short program with a career-high 72.12 points at the U.S. Championships in Boston.
Her sensational performance built on strong jumps, improved presentation and a rapport with the audience put her more than five points ahead of 15-year-old Polina Edmunds and nearly seven points ahead of a resurgent Mirai Nagasu.
Two-time defending champion Ashley Wagner was fourth. The top three women will go to the Sochi Olympics.
The long program will be Saturday night after the pairs free skate.
Earlier, hometown favorites Marissa Castelli and Simon Shnapir ignored all the pressure of carrying the hopes of friends and family in the crowd to run away with the pairs short program. The defending champions staked themselves to a huge lead of 6.63 points.
The Orange County Coroner's Office is investigating the death of a USC freshman water polo player who helped the Trojans win the NCAA title last month.
Jon Walters, 19, died of a heart attack at a hospital Wednesday, his father, Bill, told the Orange County Register. Bill Walters said his son had been fighting pneumonia and kidney failure after falling into a coma Jan. 1.
• Raphael Jacquelin shot a bogey-free 5-under 67 in extremely windy conditions to take the first-round lead at the Volvo Golf Champions in Durban, South Africa. Jacquelin was the only player not to drop a shot for a one-stroke advantage over defending champion Louis Oosthuizen.
• The Buffalo Sabres hired Tim Murray to take over as general manager and Hockey Hall of Fame executive Craig Patrick to serve as an adviser.
• Former star defenseman Wade Redden, 36, who played for Ottawa, the New York Rangers, St. Louis and Boston, has retired.
• Shaun White finished eighth in slopestyle qualifying to advance at the U.S. Grand Prix in Copper Mountain, Colo.
• American Hannah Kearney won the women's moguls with 24.83 points on the opening day of the World Cup freestyle event at Deer Valley Ski Resort in Park City, Utah.
• The Arena Football League said it has seized control of its San Antonio franchise after its ownership group failed to meet its obligations.
Seattle Times news services
Trending with Readers
On seattletimes.comMore Trending
- With war under way in Ukraine, Russians don't like what little they learn
- Dead cyclist was new mom, well-regarded attorney
- Chris Petersen's UW debut isn't pretty, but it's a start | Jerry Brewer
- Huskies survive in their opener, winning 17-16 at Hawaii
- Coastal quake risk: Japan on watch, Northwest 'essentially blind'
- Right wing launches misguided protest against Labor Day | Danny Westneat
- Joan Rivers' daughter: I'm keeping fingers crossed
- Barista-stand owner faces prostitution charge
- Seahawks' roster will always be a work in progress | Larry Stone
- US trained Alaskans as secret 'stay-behind agents'


text:
Next years rookies left out in the cold?
I don't like the sound of this. Rookies next year will get 0 time with their new teams until a new CBA goes in. "Without any mini-camps, offseason conditioning, and hands-on coaching, the 2011 draft class will be learning on the fly and many will not see the field because of it. If there are no preseason games, the guys who may really get lost in the shuffle are undrafted rookie free agents who need a full camp and the games to show what they can do."


text: I remember when this Black Sabbath come back album came out in 1992 or so. Ronnie James Dio was back at the helm and a very cool music video for "T.V. Crimes" (with a junky, obsolete television playing nothing but Sabbath is constantly being stolen) was playing on MTV's Headbanger's Ball. I liked the single, but only later did I purchase Dehumanizer. I was stunned at how solid this album is. It is right up there with Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules. In fact, I like it better than Mob Rules. The first track "Computer God" just rocks! The vocals are awesome (as they usually are for Dio, but especially on this track). "T.V. Crimes" is a fast-paced rocker. "After all (The Dead)" and "Letters from Earth" are dark and haunting. "Sins of the Father" is a track I think Ozzy would have sounded great on as it sounds like his style. "Too Late" is one of my favorites. It is a very powerful song, quiet at the beginning and then launches into a blistering metal track with killer lyrics: "It's too late too late for tears, too late and no one hears you, welcome to forever, it's too late." "Time Machine" is the most mainstream of the tracks with two versions on this album (one from Wayne's World which I cannot tell apart from the original). The anthem here, though, is "I." It is amazing musically and lyrically: "I am virgin, I'm a whore, Giving nothing the taker the maker of war, I'll smash your face in, but with a smile." There is nothing weak on this album. It rocks from beginning to end. If you are missing this album in your Black Sabbath/Dio collection, Buy It! You will not be disappointed.