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Understanding Why You Find It Hard To Get Over Someone That Future Faked and Fast Forwarded
By Natalie (NML) On March 4, 2011 · 142 Comments
I'm hearing from a lot of people that are 'stuck' – they can't get over their involvement with someone that was a Future Faker and may have also Fast Forwarded them, or actually any relationship where someone's actions didn't match their words. Why?
Aside from all of the usual obsessing and avoidance that many go through when a relationship ends, discovering your involvement with a Future Faker and/or Fast Forwarder, or in essence someone whose actions and words don't match means you:
1) Believe that whatever they said was going to happen, it's just that you did something to change their mind.
2) Can't believe you made a mistake, misjudged the situation, and reel from, what are now in hindsight, obvious red flags.
Let's roll back and recap for a moment.
When some is a Future Faker they via their words and initial actions give you the impression of a future so that they can get what they want in the present. They make thinly veiled or even direct references to stuff like marriage, babies, moving in together, going on holiday, being together the following year and other such things that imply or state that you're a part of their life, and then they either disappear or replace the person you thought they were with someone altogether different.
When some Fast Forwards you, they speed you through, in particular, the early stages of dating by sweeping you up in a tide of intensity, so that you miss red flags and mistake the intensity as being reflective of their deep feelings for you. Fast Forwarding is not just the words of Future Faking, but pushing for emotional and sexual commitment, contacting you or wanting to be together all of the time, introducing you very quickly to people, taking you to look at places or giving you their key, and other such madness.
When someone says one thing and does another, there's an obvious disconnect. For it to happen occasionally, is human. Shit happens. But to consistently overstate what you will do and underdeliver shows a lack of integrity and basic thought. When they're more concerned with how they look as opposed to doing what's needed to consistently be that person, they don't act congruently with who they say they are or what they intend to do.
If you're the type of person that allows yourself to be swept up, has little or no boundaries, creates illusion, denies stuff either by choosing not to see it or minimising the reality of it and are prone to chasing a feeling, you will be caught out by someone whose actions don't stack up.
When you hardly know them and they refer to stuff that's somewhat more appropriate to a relationship that's been going on for longer than a hot minute or they're super duper intense, it's a red flag – you see it as flattering.
Of course it's flattering when someone is all over you like a rash and promising the sun, moon, and stars, but particularly if you have been burned before or find it hard to deal with rejection or feeling that you've made a mistake, it is your responsibility to assess the risk, take visual and audio cues as to whether this person is who they are, and get to know them before you commit and hand over your trust lock, stock and barrel.
If you can't get over them, it's because you haven't accepted that what was on offer wasn't real.
Instead, particularly if you already have low self-esteem, you believe that it was all real and that you said or did something no matter how tiny it was to scare them off or to retract the future or actions that they promised.
People who are involved with unavailable's wonder what they did to 'make' them this way, whether they've misunderstood, are going crazy, or what they can do to change themselves or them to make it work.
Believing that a fake off or whatever was said was real confirms every negative thing you believe and puts you at the centre of the eye of the storm. It's me!Then you analyse every conversation, all of your actions, turning everything over in your mind, and blame yourself. If I were a loveable, better person, this wouldn't have happened!
And you know what? You thinking it's you is the biggest trick in the 'con' – you're so busy blaming you, you forget how disingenuous and downright shady their actions are.
Next thing you know you're pursuing them to hold up their end of the bargain. They back away from you and no doubt give you a hard time, or you end up staying in a relationship long past its sell by date with someone whose actions don't match their words and you thinking that you have to put in double time to 'retrieve' the person they 'sold' to you and the relationship you were going to get, and 'recoup' your investment.
Be under no illusions, someone's actions not matching their words is symptomatic of being involved with an unavailable and/or an assclown. To persist in blaming yourself for what did and din't materialise is to absolve them of their responsibility.
People with integrity don't promise futures to get what they want in the present and those that actually intend on being around and consistently delivering the same personality, don't go from 0 to 90 in 60 seconds flat and then revert to another personality.
Actions not matching words, Future Faking and Fast Forwarding are not normal – they are red flags.
While it may be trickier to spot that a future is being faked until the future doesn't materialise, Fast Forwarding which is always present with Future Faking isn't.
If someone talked out their bum but nothing at all happened, you'd know immediately that something was very wrong although I know of more than enough people who would still chase them down.
When someone talks out of their bum for a few weeks or months, they have to do stuff to facilitate the con – this is the Fast Forwarding.
Let me repeat: normal, respectful people with empathy and care don't behave this way. Whether they admit or deny their actions is actually beside the point – it's the fact that they have. When someone's actions don't match their words, it's not about you – it's about them.
Get over this idea that when people don't follow through or they act like jackasses, it's not because of their character and it's because of the person. It's not – it's them. This is not about you. You not registering red flags etc – that enables it but it doesn't cause it.
And there's another reason why it wasn't real – It's each individual's prerogative to change their mind – feelings change and sometimes we think we feel more than we do. However people date for a few weeks or months with it not working out without the whole Fast Forwarding and pitching a pretend future at you.
Accepting what has happened, warts and all, instead of denying it will stop you from blaming yourself and seeing them as this great prince or princess that got away.
With that in mind, I will say this: If you're the type of person that struggles to deal with the emotional consequences of making mistakes, you have an even greater responsibility to get your house in order.
That means addressing how you feel about you and tidying up your relationships habits, going slower, and eyes and ears 100% open and not disregarding red flag information. It means using dating as a discovery phase instead of committing at the discovery of another person and sanity checking your assumptions. If you're the type that can't cope with making a mistake with someone you have slept with, you definitely need to go slower.
But more importantly – stop making their actions about you. Make their actions about them. Yes there are things you can learn from this but if you accept that the con of Future Faking, Fast Forwarding and actions not matching words are red flags, you'll learn to be thankful that you're out and see healthier, slower interactions that let you actually get to know them as attractive.
There is an audio available for this post – my first attempt!
Your thoughts?
Check out my ebooks the No Contact Rule and Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl and more in my bookshop.Add to favorites
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Tagged with: authentic self • boundaries in relationships • did they really love me? • Future Faking • having boundaries with friends • he blows hot and cold • he lied to me • interpersonal relationships • they lied about our relationship • values in relationships • was what we had real? • when someone lies to you • why did he fake a future with me? • worrying about how you look to others
142 Responses to Understanding Why You Find It Hard To Get Over Someone That Future Faked and Fast Forwarded
allie says:
Very Rigth!!!,
This is what I need to learn, using dating as a discovering phase. Go slow. And myself need to stop fast forwarding. Is like when I meet someone and start dating, then I start fantizing about future and what could this be, etc., and then I myself get over invested with someone I don't know, and then when I see the red flags then is hard not to ignore them.
I am soo glad that I have not only learn about EUM but also about myself and my own unavailability.
Hope next time I can go much better and will be more prepared.
Redhead says:
This post couldn't have come at a more needed time. I just ended a four year drama and trauma filled relationship with the biggest Assclown I've ever known. I had run into this guy about 3x that I knew and had been out with before but we didn't continue the relationship because I moved. Now I find myself a week in with him and he has told me how much he liked me and that he had blown it before (hello, I moved out of state) and he is calling me and telling me what he is doing, where he is going. He has wanted to see me every day for the last week. I told him I needed to go slow and he said we would but this doesn't seem like slow to me. Its like he has made future plans in his head already a week in. Is he fast forwarding with me? Could this be a red flag or am I just not used to the attention so much so that it scares me?
Melanie says:
Hmm, I had a boyfriend in the past who used to try to monopolize all my time too. He didn't ask to see me every day, we both worked and lived maybe half an hour apart, but he wanted to monopolize all my weekend. Right off the bat from when we first started. I'd always vie for less time, he'd vie for more. He wanted to come over first thing in the morning and be with me til late at night! (I wouldn't let him, When was I supposed to do my chores and personal care?) I didn't like it at all. Some people actually like to spend all their time with someone. So it may be a compatibility issue between you two. Which if it is it could cause you guys some real problems. You'll probably resent not having time to do your own thing. Or it might not be a matter of different needs for time together, but instead a power struggle, an issue of control. Him trying to control you. (that's what it was with the guy I dated) Either way you'll probably resent it. And if you resist more time together he may pout, and act resentful, spiteful. I don't know the extent of the situation you're in I'm just giving you my experience with that issue, hopefully you two aren't as incompatible as I was with him, but know that you don't have to let anyone bully or guilt you into letting them hog up all your time … especially when you'd prefer to get to know them more slowly!! Good luck!
Bonnie Alvarez says:
Natalie – THANK YOU. I really, really needed to hear this. I wish I could make an audio tape and listen to it over and over until I GET this. It wasn't actually on offer. It wasn't REAL. Thank you.
Bella says:
Great idea, I wish I could hear it over and over on audio, too!
Chicken pox permitting (my 3 year old is on day 2 of it), I am recording my first podcast today on this topic and I'm also recording a video. I will update later!
Link to audio here. http://baggagereclaim.podomatic.com/entry/2011-03-07T06_59_42-08_00
Pty says:
I think that even in the best of cirumstances, dating may not fully reveal who people really are. I know a number of people who were best friends in high school, but couldn't stand each other as roommates at college. But in some circumstances, especially affairs, the hormones can get ahead of reason, and we become convinced that the other person is our "soul mate" when we hardly know them at all. Maybe we rely too much on "chemistry" being an indicator of true love, when, as shown by this website, chemistry can happen with the wrong people for the wrong reasons. As a divorce attorney, I have people running to the courthouse the day their divorce is final so they can marry the next one. I would like to get a big government grant to study that someday.
I guess we need to find the balance between giving (and thus getting) the benefit of the doubt, with the caution needed in any major life decision. Some people seem to spend less time deciding on a personal relationship than the do buyin a car. The key may be to slow down, and think with both the heart and head.
Ok, enough rambling.
TJ says:
Speaking as someone who fell for the "chemistry" & over the top attention/flattery from my ex…
I agree Pty, we should think with the head (logic) as well as the heart (emotion) & put a damn leash on the hormones! We do rush into relationships too soon – it seems for the sake of not being alone for any length of time we hurry to make it "legal & binding" way too early in. I am a believer in finding ways to be truly content & happy even outside of a relationship – to me, that is the ultimate serenity. I think that "finding ourselves" & living true to ourselves (authentically) will ultimately bring us to where we are supposed to be in this life. It is also going to safeguard us from sticking around way too long trying to figure out why a boyfriend/girlfriend decided to future fake or fast forward. NML is so spot on with this article, and I am really glad she wrote it because it was something I really needed to hear too…. it wasn't MY fault the ex did what he did, I didn't do that "thing" (that I think in my own mind) put him off me.
Pty says:
Also, is it possible for both sides to be future fakers? Just wondering
Movedup says:
@Pty – yes and what is even worse than that is a future faker and a wanna-believer. I also did my "time" in family law and saw much of the same thing – so lost in their own worlds/heads to even consider the effects on the children tossed about like assets and used as punching bags. Its a sad sorry state which is why I no longer work in that area. Way too much drama. But as for two future fakers – WOW – is that EU meets EU in a tag team match – each upping each other with a grander yet unobtainable future that will never be. Or maybe they are just using each other to sharpen their skills….. kitty has claws
pty says:
@moved up.
I am thinking perhaps of both parties in affair, both pretending that they will have a future with each other, but knowing they won't. If only one is married and "only staying in it for the kids" he or she has to keep doing things to keep the single partner involved enough not to move on to something he/she can have fully now, not in 2, 3, or how many years. The affair partner has to keep the betraying spouse involved enough to keep them from going back to the loyal spouse, or finding a new affair partner. It can be a race to the bottom. This is something I thought of just within the last 2 hours, so I haven't thought it through yet.
On a said note, as an American on an British site, the extra "u" Mr. Webster took out of "favour" etc, drives me slightly crazy.
pty says:
That was supposed to be "side" note.
Heather says:
Thank you for all of your posts about unavailables. I never could really pinpoint what was wrong in my relationship until we broke up and I stumbled upon this website! As I read this entry I just kept thinking, EXACTLY! He totally fast forwarded the relationship and now because I know why this is, I will not allow it to happen again. Unfortunately, I'm still caught up in analyzing his behavior but I'm particularly interested in what role his mother played in making him this way…they are strangely close and she still does things that only a wife should be doing for a 40 year old man! Anyway I'd be really interested to hear about other's experiences with unavailable men and them being "momma's boys."
Melanie says:
Both of my last two boyfriends lived with their parent/s. The first one lived in his parents house, the excuse there was that she was ill and needed his help. that was true but his father also could have hired help, and/or he (and his siblings) could've gone over for shifts, taking turns, to help out and lived in his own house. His mom died a few years ago now and to my knowledge the guy still lives there with his dad. I think he'll always have one excuse or the other to stay there and avoid responsibility of developing and maintaining his own life. The second guy his mom had moved in with him a couple years ago because she 'needed a place to live'. Ok. So when does that end? And for all I know they'd lived together before that but I didn't know him then. Both guys have perfectly reasonable explanations why they live with their parents. I've had difficult situations too. But I wouldn't live with my parent unless it was the absolute last option and I had no other choice. Nor do I think she would extend the offer. I would turn over every stone and work three or four jobs before living with my parent. I think a man should be able to find a way. The reasons my guys had they sounded very noble but the were really just excuses. Excuses for being an adult but living with their parents. And really if a person wants to they could find a good excuse or justification for just about anything. By the way in both of those situations the mother was nice to me. If we'd stayed together longer then who knows, they might or might not be still nice to me. That said I think some people are in a *temporary* situation, say they just lost their job, sold their house and are saving to buy another, something that makes sense, and they're not just staying there to avoid the real world. But I think these perpetual Peter Pans are awfully good at disguising their true reasons for living at home. Probably the more noble it sounds, the more likely it is that they are staying there because they haven't cut the apron string.
gala says:
Thank you for a great post.
Changing the mind is of course totally human, but when an honest guy does that it isn't like this. He doesn't paint pink clouds for you to believe.
It's very hard to notice red flags, if this is the first time it has ever happened to you.
There is a lot of manipulation going on also. When my guy tried to end it all, he blamed it on my decision about myself (which I didn't make yet, but he assumed that I have decided in a certain way). I was naive enough to think he really thinks so and was explaining him to exhaustion that I haven't decided yet. Later it occurred to me, he only needed an excuse, so I would be to blame not him.
gala says:
Looking back I'm really glad it's all over. It wasn't good for me, especially at the end. Now I simply don't care about it.
I think the problem with not admitting oneself the fact that it wasn't real is because the guy usually doesn't tell you, but it's rather open. He denies it or avoids explanation or blames you. Then it's you against him – who do you believe-yourself or him? I believe myself as a rule, no exceptions.
colororange says:
But can't what we say/do influence how he is? Whether he stays or goes or changes? I know I've said/done some not so hot things that would be a red flag for the guy. I take responsibility for that.
Like this last guy, he disappeared for about a week (though we work together). Came back and apologized saying something to the effect of he doesn't do relationships that well. Said he wanted to still be friends though. After that we had a conversation and he implied part of the reason he quit talking to me was because 1. he was thinking about the whole thing and 2. I had gotten too intense or heavy talking. That he could only talk so much about the "heavy stuff" then he shuts off. Sooooo…..I went away from that feeling oh great, I've messed up again. If only I hadn't said this or done that, etc etc etc. Seems I run into guys that blame what they do on me. I feel like a big idiot.
ICanDoBetter says:
One thing I did learn from my divorce is that I didn't cause my ex-husband's behavior. All relationships have a dynamic that is fed by both parties, but your guy admitted he struggles when things get too intense. That is his struggle, not yours. And as for him disappearing for a week because of it? Was that his only choice of behavior? No, he could have talked to you about it, rather than disappear.
As for you, if you take an honest look at yourself, and decide you may be too intense, you can always work on that. But we are all works in progress. Is he beating himself up for running away, instead of talking things out like an adult? Is he thinking he screwed up by disappearing on the relationship?
I know from experience how hard we can be on ourselves, when these guys have just as many (or more) issues, and we let them off the hook, and make all of it our fault.
Lynda from L says:
@Lynda from L. My guy was always always thinking of himself. He lay in bed with me reading a book on the pursuit of happiness, whilst making apologies that he couldn't commit after months and months of Future Fakery extremis! I think I was supposed to think he was 'trying'whilst he continued to manage down my expectations. It's not enough for them to admit to struggling. They shouldn't have made the promises in the first place…. I 've just heard that he was pursuing old girlfriend/fall back girl of his during our relationship whilst embroidering future with me. I wonder if she gets the truth or another version of the fakery. Its like mirrors leading onto mirrors to mirrors. Too too much hassle to unravel these guys and actually the women who put up with them for years.
GoldieGirl says:
This is really hard. To accept that it wasn't 'real' would mean that the one time in my life that I ever felt really loved and felt truly in love, wasn't 'real' – and I'm not sure I can do that. Its easier for me to believe that it was something I said, something I did to change things between us. He ticks every one of the boxes in every post and I know he doesn't want me any more – but believing that he did once love me is the only thing getting me through this.
Movedup says:
Becareful – it can also be the thing that keeps you stuck. I don't know your story but I can tell you this – been there and not wanting to believe kept me stuck alot longer than I should have been. Not to mention the waste of time pinning of something that wasn't real. I had to come to terms with – it wasn't real between us – it was real in my mind only – a figment of my imagination solely derived for my benefit so I'd feel ok with the idea that he was actually using me for his benefit. I know its hard to swallow but acceptance is your best course – learn from the experience. There is nothing worse than to suffer and not to have learned anything from it.
Oldenoughtoknowbetter says:
Goldiegirl, I just wanted to share something with you that my therapist said. I was "stuck" on how could someone say he loved me and do this, how could someone you loves you do that, so did that mean he didn't love me? For some reason whether the "I love you"s were real was also very important to me as I don't ever fall for anyone (my own EU issue which I have discussed here before!).
But this is what my therapist said and I was able to get "unstuck" (well, and the fact that I read BR every other day! – - Amazingly insightful and enhances my therapy greatly). Anyway, my therapist said he probably DID love me. But the truth is, his capacity to love is not very big AND his love, or his version of love, is just plain bad for me. So yes, he did, in his warped, uncapable way, love me. It just wasn't love worth having but it was all he had to give. So it was real, but not worth much.
So hopefully that helps you? Love is not always LOVE, and lots of people aren't able to give more, so does it matter or should we move on? I say move on!
Have a great weekend everyone!
Bek says:
I wish I could have that solidified in my mind. I also struggle with those things greatly… And it's something my mother has said a few times as well.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
I hope some day it finally sinks in.
Penny says:
It has been over a year, and I still struggle with this. Your words did help-it is truly all about the message you give yourself. Thank you for you help.
Getbusylivin says:
Goldie Girl I too feel the same way and can't shake that there was something real there. However, I will not accept that I did something wrong to facilitate his actions. Instead I like to think that he loved me, in his own way, in his limited capacity, but whatever amount that was, it simply was not enough to sustain the relationship.
Whether that thinking will slow my progress remains to be seen for me, but it puts things in perspective for now and I'm okay with that.
GoldieGirl says:
Thanks Movedup.Oldenough, Getbusylivin. That all makes so much sense. He did love me, probably as much as he was able but it wasn't the right kind of love. Now I need to spend my time geting 'unstuck'. Oh and this guy was a real wiz. We met some of my friends in a bar a couple of weeks ago and he became Mr Social, buying drinks for us all, keeping his arms round me all evening, giving me his front door key (yup, BIG red flag) and generally behaving like a normal guy. You name it, he did it. Suckered me right back in.So now he has disappeared the girls asked me what I did!!! Soon put them straight.
In the post this morning – a mixed CD from him. No note. I guess its like a criminal re-visiting the scene of the crime just to see how it turned out?
Onward and upward.
ICanDoBetter says:
I still can't believe how naive I was with my ex-AC boyfriend. I had been married most of my adult life, so maybe not being in the dating scene all that time kept me in the dark about a lot of these behaviors and red flags.
I went to counseling, self-help groups, etc, but it was all focused on my marriage and the specific issues in it. I never knew there was so much to learn about dating and relationships in general. I didn't find this site until after my last relationship with ex-AC boyfriend ended.
I didn't even know what hit me at the time, but now I can clearly see he was a future faker and a fast forwarder. I was so flattered by his intense desire to see me every day and talk to me all the time, and the chemistry we had. He must have thought he won the lottery to find someone as naive as I was. And the worst part? I actually thought I was a lot wiser than I was, because of the work I had done on myself.
And yes, I did learn a lot in counseling, but I knew nothing about the M.O. of assclowns and EUM's. This site has really opened my eyes to so much, and I am so thankful to you Natalie. You are wise beyond your years!
Natasha says:
Here are three of my observations on a future faker, based my own personal research for which NO government would ever give me a grant (I liked that Pty!): (1) he can get sulky and act rejected/offended if you try to slow things down to a rational pace appropriate for how long the relationship has been going on for, (2) he may flat out refuse to answer you if you call him out on it after things have gone kaput and (3) some may think that because you've gone along with it and haven't raised the red flag, it's open season on treating you badly.
Natalie, thank you so much for this post! For whatever reason, the future faking was the hardest thing for me to get over – I felt like such a fool. You have helped immensely
rozB says:
I just thought I'd mention this. I thought of Baggage Reclaim the other day because I was rewatching Sense and Sensibility with Emma Thompsen and Kate Winslet. And I was like, omg, Willoughby is a Future Faker! He totally faked a future with Marianne AND he fast-forwarded with her! He's the quintessential Future Faker. Of course, he "meant" to propose, but still. He promised way too much when he knew he couldn't necessarily deliver.
TJ says:
That movie was great. I have thought of the very same thing when I saw this again. Yes, that is exactly like Willoughby, he is such a "FFFF" (Fast Forwarding Future Faker)… I think AC as well.
Did you happen to notice though, that she ended up getting together at the end of the movie with the kind hearted gentleman that treated her with love, care & respect? Thanks for the reminder about that movie, it is a good one.
Used says:
Actually, believe it or not, Darcy of Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" fame is considered the first hard-core bad boy in fiction. Notice, too, how he falls for the only woman who ever stood up to him. She tells him off, yes, but when he comes back, it is as a changed man and a hero, a la Marianne's captain.
Don't get me started on another one, Heathcliff. And how EU he and Catherine are. Another writer. another novel, another time.
Lori says:
I hate to say this, but that just happened to me. I'm mortified that I fell for it. I've been reading this blog for several months and so when this younger man started adoring me, I wasn't interested. I recognized that he was rushing a bit, but after two weeks of 3 hour phone conversations (he travels for work during the week) almost every night, I thought he was a very cool guy. So he gets back a few days earlier than he though he would, we get together for two days, skip an originally planned date night because we're both so tired, go out on that Saturday night. We have a discussion about the casual nature of the relationship, which is of course casual because I barely know him. I'm an intelligent and forewarned woman, I've made it clear that I'm not rushing into anything, he's being somewhat pushy and not acting casual at all (I have witnesses). Talk to him Sunday morning, never a peep out of him since then. Before he's texting or calling me every day, then BAM! nothing. I see the writing on the wall but just call a few days later to leave a short, unclingy voicemail. Then I follow up with a casual text. Nothing. At. All. I'm now upset because I didn't truly see this coming. It's like the minute you express interest back he's gone. WTF? Mortified and wondering how I screwed that up, even though I know deep down it has nothing to do with me and that he's a scared little boy. But come on, at least have the balls to say "I'm done with you" or "screw this" or something. No more contact with me? At least my self-esteem is getting good enough that I'm not waiting around for him or calling/texting him. I cannot fathom, however, why someone would be all fired up for two weeks and then do a total back out. I can't believe I fell for it, and although I'm trying not to take it personally, I am indeed "stuck" on the rejection for reasons unknown. So this blog was sooo timely!
ana patricia says:
Oh I totally get what you are saying! Except in my case he wasn't pushy in way and he was pretty chilled out. I keep thinking maybe it was something I did but I know I didn't do anything. I can be pretty timid and shy by nature so overkill on the info was not an issue. But I know I was open and we had great conversations and laughed a lot and then one weekend trip? Nothing. Totally get what you are saying.
Ellen says:
@ Lori…I know this feeling!!! You think things are going well, and then, without warning…they're gone. I don't understand it! I too internalized it, analyzed it to death, replayed every conversation, text, vmail trying to figure out what I missed. I took him at his word…that was the mistake. I assumed he was a responsible grown-up and would treat me with respect. The worst part, for me, was that the same guy did the same thing to me 10yrs. ago. How naive I was to think that these men change, mature, grow-up and mean what they say. Back then, he promised me the moon, I wouldn't sleep with him, and he cut me off without any words. I acted like a fool back then, contacted him 3-4,5 times trying to get some type of explanation…closure (yucky word)….something to say we were done, but he NEVER responded. He shows up 10years later. TEN YEARS. I thought I'd moved on and he comes crawling out of nowhere. Tried to keep it casual, tried to be his "friend" but the emotions were still there. Again, heard the regret, how he had missed me, wanted to be with me, I was like no other…I told him to slow it down, lets be friends, stroked his ego…and poof! He's gone. No good-bye or anything. I'm thinking I may be the fallback girl, and totally fell for his future-faking…thinking I meant something to him when I didn't. I am trying hard not to view this as rejection. I — like you– sent a casual text to see what's up. No response. Nothing. One thing that has helped me is knowing that I'm not the only one this has happened to. It isn't us….it's them. We fall for the wolf in sheep's clothing. I think there may be something mental with these guys that makes them think they need to act this way. Not every man does. Don't give up hope, and let go of him quickly (he may reappear in 10yrs).
GoldieGirl says:
Ellen, my EUM disappeared on me when I was 15 and broke my heart because there was no explanation, just nothing. Fab way to be introduced to the world of men! He came back at me two years ago – 40 years afterwards!! And did the exact same thing…………!! They never grow up or change.
grace says:
he hadn't grown up and changed but … neither had you. I had a very similar experience myself. ex came back after 20 years, I pretty much lapped it up (even though he had got married) but as I sat AT WORK waiting for A TEXT (the shame) the alarm bells rang like the clappers and i thought "I've been here before!" Not just with him but several other relationships. All my past crappy, half-hearted, go-nowhere, sometimes abusive relationships flashed before my eyes and I thought, I am not doing this again. I was completely helpless to know what to do and rang a counsellor. He couldn't see me for two weeks so I looked for info from the web and found BR.
To cut a longish story short, I did not see the MM again, we never did not have sex (thankfully), I cut him out of my life, and while I was at it I cut out all the other exes and hangers on, I grew a backbone at work, I stopped caring what people think about me, I stopped believing that one day my parents (after 40+ years) might throw a bone my way, I committed myself properly to work instead of just going through the motions, I congratulated myself on my qualities and felt like a different person. I had control of my life for the first time. A common theme here, and I notice it very much having gone through the journey and almost out the other side, is how helpless we all are. The men future fake us, they come and go as they please, they're married, they see other women, they let us down, they dump us and come back- and we just sit and take it. Not only that, but we actually reward them with attention, sex, and our free psychoanalysis. We even tell ourselves that we don't mind, it's just casual, just so we can accommodate the flip flapping.
Goldie, you don't have to do that. We're not sitting ducks for every twit who comes our way. You do get a say in how you're treated. If you don't like it there is the very powerful weapon of just … walking away. And not letting what they think affect you (too much). They probably aren't thinking very much at all. But it doesn't matter. It only matters what you think of yourself.
It took me six months and a lot of BR to change. And that change had nothing, nothing, nothing to do with any man. Except my counsellor was a man, bless him.
metsgirl says:
I like that…I think you nailed it quite nicely
M says:
I like it too. Thank you for helping me get back on the straight and narrow, articulating what I know I need to do with such clarity.
Melanie says:
Hi Lori, so this guy, was he someone you met perhaps online, then communicated with on the telephone, then met him in person for the first time, then never heard from him again? Maybe I got it wrong. But, if so, yeah, it's not a good idea to spend a whole lot of time and energy getting to know someone remotely whom you haven't actually met in real life yet. Because if you do dump your heart out, tell him all your secrets, develop what seems like a chemistry remotely. Then meet each other and one or both of you don't like each other, then of course you feel bad. So if I'm meeting a guy online I keep it very light til we meet. No point getting to know each other too well, then finding out one or both of us don't find the other that attractive. Again maybe I misunderstood you on this and you had already met in person before.
grace says:
I detect a huge amount of ambivalence from you – I only point it out because I'm going through it myself. Part of me wants a relationship but most of me .. really doesn't. You start by saying you aren't interested, then you are interested, then you like the long phone calls, but then you don't because you hardly know him, you're annoyed that he disappears but pretend you don't care by sending a casual text, then you don't like that he doesn't take your casual text seriously.
He has not behaved well, I agree but if you're confused about what you want you'll always end up attracting other similarly confused people and ending up in .. confusing situations.
I would let this guy waft back to wherever he came from and have a think about what it is you want from dating and from life.
Good luck – I'm going through it too!
Lisa says:
Thanks for this today.
I just got out of a damaging relationship with lots of future faking going on. To my credit, I eventually figured out that the offers weren't real, but the lingering sense of betrayal is profound.
Cam says:
@Lisa- I think you said best what I struggle with some days – "the sense of betrayal is profound." As I have said here before, my situation involved a "friend" and co-worker. The investment of time, caring and giving was huge for me and completely one-sided. I am healing very well but it has been a long process through sadness, anger and pain.
With the words and experiences of other people on this site, NML's guidance and my hard-won lessons, I think I am in a better place than I have ever been.
Miriam says:
I think future faking can be done on both sides, and we believe what we want to believe at times. 6 months nc and no dating, therapy and self-help along with BR, I think I could easily spot most red flags in this crazy dating scene.
I'm starting to regain my mojo but I'm taking everything slowly. A few guys have expressed interest in me but I'm not taking the reigns this time, keeping my legs closed, stopped drinking (1 drink max!), and am building my self Esteem, to me all better things to do for myself as opposed to chasing another AC, no matter how hot he might be, got me in trouble last time!
Getbusylivin says:
I wish BR had a "Like" button for that statement!
Nevertoolate! says:
Wish I had BR when I turned 15, I will be 47 tomorrow, would have save me over 30 years of aggravation and alot of $$$ of therapy (or at least it would have helped the therapy process!)
ana patricia says:
This is so incredibly insightful. It got me thinking about past relationships that failed and I totally understand why now! Right now though, I really needed to see something like this. I went out on 2 dates with a guy and they went really really well. He was making plans for the 3rd date and wanted to my dance company etc etc. And then, he just… disappeared. I'm still looking for the redflags… I keep missing them? And I'm pretty sure I avoided all the dating taboos you know? I know it's only two dates and some calls and messages… but it would be nice to know exactly what happened… or at least understand it.
Thanks for your great articles.
kirsten says:
Gosh the last few posts have really hit the nail on the head for me Nat but I do realise I am wising up to these idiots after going through a rough time with the ex EU last year. Met someone over christmas, it lasted 2 weeks until I put that one to bed so I'm getting better lol, in previous lives I would probably be hoping he'd change and stuck around for his bullshit. No more and I'm feeling very proud of myself. The future faker is a real nasty piece of work I think (been there before too) and yes I have been guilty of feeling flattered instead of seeing it as a red flag. As for the ones the future fake then disappear, they need a bullet. How hard is it to tell someone you don't want to see them anymore? And in this day and age if you only see someone for a week or a month, a text message or email to say its over requires very little effort (and requires no balls), but at least we all know where we stand. Probably not doing so means they think they can treat us as an option and start managing down our expectations. Bastards lol
Ellen says:
This is so freeing. Thank you.
runnergirlno1 says:
Darn. I had finally turned a bit of a corner in understanding that I will never be the exception to the rule. This post makes me angry all over again. Maybe that's normal. I swear, despite being 51 years old, I did not see it. I did kind of wonder periodically why we never seemed to do the things we talked about doing but I dismissed it. He ALWAYS ran hot, right from the outset, for two solid years, and I was flattered; not anymore. And true to form, the begining was super duper fast forwarding. I was the flip flapper. Now as I think back, every time I flipped (when my denial cracked), he ran even hotter and I'd buy the future faking. What makes me angry is the fact that the future faking was deliberate on his part and stupid on my part. Did he really do that consciously? I didn't realize what was happening just like you state. You have perfectly described the last two years of my life as well as too many years in my past to mention. This makes me want to call him and scream. Good thing I deleted him. I would have to try to find his number now and it seems like too much effort actually. He did that consciously? What a creep.
Kay says:
Internet date sites are the playground of the future fakers.This is how they operate:
1.They zoom in on your profile,compliment you,tell you how ideal you seem and blind side you with their flattery.
2.They tell you their life story,come across all sweet and vulnerable,appealing to the sweet and vulnerable in you.You're interested.
3.Act very respectful towards you.Tentatively give you their number,act all submissive and you think you've got a puppy dog.
4.Send you another email if you don't respond quickly.They're needy,you think you're in the driving seat.
5,6,7 etc etc It progresses from the phone to the dates,from the hot with much fast forwarding to the totally cold and next thing you know he's disappeared and he's back on the dating site searching for his next victim.And you're left reeling.
It's happened to me several times and the sheer quantity of these guys and their total deceitful arrogance never ceases to amaze me.Internet dating,instant messaging and texting has completely trivialised the dating /mating scene and basic standards of courtesy and integrity seem non existent. So it sure is not us and what we might have said /not said.It's them.Thankfully we are the enlightened ones and all we can do is proceed with caution,eyes 100% open, ready to abort mission where necessary.But it's still a bumpy ride and still bruising.Wasting your recharged batteries on these morons leaves you feeling flatter than flat.Ok,so you caught them at their game,you got out fast,you'll recharge again.BUT…….. You really have to be tough to date noways and I'm not sure I am.
Cam says:
Kay, this was excellent. I quit Internet dating because I just couldn't get a "feel" for the person. Nothing replaces seeing someone's actions in person. I don't have the time to invest in sorting through all of the crap that is out there. I trust that I will meet someone some day and, if not, my life will be just as fulfilling anyway. For the first time, I understand the concept of being complete by myself. If (feels like a big "if" some days), I am fortunate to share this great life with another person, then it will be someone loving and emotionally healthy.
Kay says:
Thanks Cam.I completely agree with you about wasting time sorting through all the crap that's out there.I'm very short on patience and downright refuse to waste my time or have it wasted by some idiot who's just passing time.
However,while I am now at a point in my life where I'm happy in my own skin [and that's mainly thanks to Natalie's help], I don't want to give up on finding love.While here at BR we mainly concentrate on the negative [we have to in order to learn and grow],there is so much that's positive and wonderful about coupledom and I would like to experience it.Unfortunately, there are very limited opportunities available to me personally to find a partner and that's why I try online. I think up to 90% of what's on these sites is rubbish so it's quite an undertaking to find the potential 10% that might be genuine.I'm not sure if I will or won't bother to continue but it is a source of dates and I think it's good to keep dating.It is a learning and discovery experience that could serve us well in the long run.I have also decided to sign up to an introductions agency that I have heard is very reputable.I would imagine that the calibre of people using these services would be higher and there would be a certain level of protection from the messing which goes on online.In any case it's good to have options.Hugs to you.x
Cam says:
Kay, yes I haven't given up. I am glad you haven't either :). I do think there are great people out there to date, but knowing that I can make emotionally healthy decisions until I meet that person is what keeps me at peace.
V says:
You are a godsend and this post was, to a T, exactly what I needed today. I've been NC from my future-faker for just about two months now, and I have good periods and bad ones–last night I just started crying uncontrollably because something reminded me of him, and I missed him so, so badly all of a sudden. And then it led to thoughts of "What did I do? What could I possibly have done that was so bad that he just couldn't stay?" In my heart I know it wasn't me, but there's always a little voice inside that says, "What if it was? What if no one ever loves you?" I try daily to get rid of that voice, and this post helped me quiet it. I'll come back to it when I need to, when things are getting particularly hard. And you know, sometimes I am longing for him in particular but sometimes I just long for a relationship that will make me feel that way again–I felt so, so loved. (Then it turned out not to be real, so wanting him in particular won't get me anywhere.) And if the relationship itself is what I'm longing for, it makes more sense and maybe I can find it again, only this time in a slower, more rational, REAL way. All I can do is hold onto hope, right?
Anyway, thanks. Just what I needed at precisely the right moment.
GoldieGirl says:
Hello V. So understand what you are saying. I too long for that experience again, when I felt loved. I am not yet in that good place when I understand that the feeling of being loved is not 'all and everything' to me. Why is it that such a magical feeling turns out to be so hurtful? I was never mean to him but also was never the 'roll over and beg' kinda person. So why the hell couldn't he see that I would never pressure him, just wanted to stay around? Still trying to quiet those voices in my head. I know we will all get thru this but just wish it could be sooner than later.
namaste says:
These posts are invaluable. This one in particular. I take on way too much responsibility for why things go wrong as well as most of the blame for the eventual failure of the relationships I've had with EUMs. I'm quite sure I would not have been able to understand 1.The dynamics or the impact of "Future Faking," 2." Managing your desire to be the exception in relationships," 3."Why people don't see their qualities and contributions to relationships accurately." (to list just 3 of many examples,) unless you had written about these issues so ably in your blog. A million Thank-yous Natalie. When I read your posts I feel empowered and ready to take charge of my life.
Emily says:
Genius, Thank you Thank you Thank you x
pty says:
I wonder if "future fakers" can only offer the future because they really can't offer a present?
Thinking about it, that makes sense. Maybe Natalie can confirm or disprove.
trinity says:
Thanks Nat,
Its a horrible thing to have to go through. Its taken me a good year to repair the damage my last relationship caused. I honestly thought id finally found someone who wanted all the things i did. That id found someone who finally saw my worth and yet instead after 1.5 years i was left an emotional wreck about to go through the wreckage of an epithany relationship. To know that i some how aloud someone into my life that had so little regard for peoples feelings, dreams, hopes, money, mental well being and precious
time. Who didnt stop to think about his careless of the cuff promisses makes me feel ashamed and embarrassed. Along with the humiliation of working with him and everyone knowing my private bussiness. Im 90% healed from the devastation of being with someone like that but i feel stuck at this point and a real deep sadness grips me at times. I feel like people must think im a total idiot.
Thanks for listening
Melanie says:
Another great post Natalie! Very straightforward and to the point. I like these because I think women more than men tend to torture ourselves over whether we should've done something differently. But the truth is they are who they are. Recently I discovered by looking when I shouldn't, that my ex is right back to what I didn't like when I was with him. Through dating him I found out that he had himself a harem, including (but in no way limited to!) a female "Best Friend". I don't think there was anything physical between those two (but I don't know, maybe there was) but nevertheless it was their emotional closeness that I didn't feel comfortable with. I had told him that and all the other enmeshments with other women made me uncomfortable. He said among other things that he'd stop calling her 'his best friend', etc. But some of his "friends" kept popping up, whether texting him while we were on a date, or saying flirtatious compliments/comments on his social networking page.. So eventually he and I ended up breaking up because of his lack of boundaries with women. I also shortly thereafter dropped him from my facebook so I wouldn't have to watch him and his "friends" flirt with eachother, and also so he couldn't keep tabs on me, nor be under the illusion that I cared to be friends with someone who disrespected me. Well a few weeks ago I (and please feel free to roll up a newspaper and smack me on the nose because I deserve it) decided to check the girl's page who I suspected was his "best friend" the one who said how handsome he was on his pictures and had posted how she loved when he took her for a ride on his motorcycle, called the backseat of his motorcycle "HER backseat", etc. So I figured she was probably the "Best Friend". So I checked her page, and she had posted up some quiz about 'I wonder who knows all these questions about me': and there were all these questions like favorite color, mom's name, BEST FRIEND, etc. So he (my ex) posted a reply to her right away answering all those questions, including saying (his name) for her best friend. Then she replied back, yes you got it all right!! (I was his girlfriend he claimed he wanted a relationship with soo badly, and he probably didn't know any of those answers about me! Because he never really made an effort to really get to know me!) She (the BFF) comes across as really whiny and dramatic. She's not cute at all, and doesn't seem very smart, more like a low-class loudmouth. Looks are subjective (to an extent) but from her personality, behavior and her lifestyle I have to think girls like her are easier for him to manage. And they're always there at-the-ready to stroke his ego. (Kind of desperate if you ask me). Anyway the point is just like I thought, he's gone running back to her and they've 'made up' so to speak. "BFFs" again, lol…. They've probably commiserated over what a possessive "B*" I am, and how I shouldn't try to 'control' him and keep him from his "friends". At first I was set back. I felt kind of sad. But then I felt like, whatever. She is welcome to have what I tossed out because it was sub-par for my standards. I'm sure he and his married "Best Friend" have done this dance many times before, just the woman playing the role of 'girlfriend' keeps changing. A lot of the things Natalie wrote has made me feel better about things. For instance that when a man goes back to his old ways and up to his old tricks after you leave him, it really just proves your point. Also where she said that When what you thought the man was going to be and what he turns out be be are different. Then if you're holding on to them still, you're holding on to something that doesn't actually exist, never did. It was just what you hoped they were. That applies so much to my last guy because I thought he was this nice, shy, keep-to-himself type of guy. THAT is what I was attracted to (my illusion of what he was). But when I got to know him I realized that he was working his texts and had plenty of female attention from his harem of "friends". Probably that's why he never made much effort to phone me (he texted), have a conversation with me, get to know me. He was busy chatting with other girls and getting his need for female companionship met by all these other girls. I guess he was just hoping to get his need for sex met by me, and maybe use me to have something pretty to bring out in public so that people would think he was the "big man". Fortunately he never did get the sex from me. Anyway I'm trying not to check his "friends'" pages as much as possible. But now I am glad that I did check because though it did kind of hurt at first to see that, now I feel more validated that I was right all along. And also another thing, if he's back tight with his "BFF" then I'd surmise that probably means he doesn't have a girlfriend either. I can't imagine any woman feeling special being his girlfriend, I sure didn't. In fact his harem is why he can't keep a girlfriend around, (I even told him so when I was still seeing him, he pretended to agree with me). This guy did both the future faking and fast forwarding. He brought me to meet family, talked about going on trips, told me he was going to put aside his harem and that I was the most important thing in his life now (on our third or fourth date! yes, I thought that was all a little fast). Thanks to Natalie again for reminding us not to blame ourselves. We have to leave them accountable for their actions and their behavior. Sorry this post was so long and hope it made sense.
Flower White says:
Future Fakers/Faster Forwarders can be very hurtful and wreck damage on the esteem of women, they are very sick men.
Even mature ladies over 40 can get played I am and I did!
I am super-careful about vetting and investigating men.
I did everything that a lady is supposed to do.
I didn't call or email him first, took my time , was polite interested and feminine, didn't have sex with him, listened to him talk about himself, didn't answer personal questions unless I felt like it …
Still, after two months of emailing phone calling and two very nice dates, he just up and disappeared after our second date.
He called me after the second date saying he had a good time and that we'd be talking soon.
"soon" meant never as he never contacted me after that.
So before I deleted all email voicemail addresses phone numbers, etc.
I created a new email account and sent him a mail basically saying that he surprised and disappointed me with the fade-out disappearing act considering his age *59!* all he had to do is drop an email saying "nice to meet you, we want different things" and that would be that.
Then I wished him well and said it's a small city we might run into each other and if I saw him I might want to flip him the bird (the old middle finger which means F you) but in reality I'd be forgetting about him very fast.
Since then, though, I've come to doubt myself around men so I'm focusing on me and will resume dating when I'm feeling healthy again.
Ladies, just keep taking your time and for gawks sake Don't Have Sex Too Soon, I'd be even more bummed out if I had slept with him and he faded out.
Kay says:
Flower White
Did you meet him online? I posted earlier about future fakers beings the kings of the Internet dating scene and your experience was exactly what I was talking about.I've had loads of experiences like yours and I totally understand how demoralising it is.Courtesy is alarmingly lacking in the cyber world and the only way to proceed is to armour oneself with boundaries and ground rules.Here are mine:
1.I NEVER allow things to drag on.Loads of guys are just arsing around online; emailing,texting,even phoning,giving the impression they're available when in essence,they're just passing time.So after a few prelimary emails to determine suitability I expect to move on to a phone call [1 week max].
2.One phone call is enough for me to know if I'd like to meet the guy.If so I expect to be meeting him within the next week.
3.If the date goes well and we seem to click and there's talk of a second date I expect that the happen within a week or two at the outside.While all this is happening,to show good will and respect, I don't log on to the dating site and I take it as a major red flag if he's logging on very regularly.
4.If he's logging on regularly [ie daily] and dragging his feet about a second or third date but still keeping the door open with regular texts, calls etc I decide to abort mission.Some women may still gamble on this guy but not me.My peace of mind and self esteem is just not able for it.
5.If I'm not interested and don't want to continue, I tell him,thank him and wish him well.
I've had a recent experience like yours,Flower White, but it only lasted a month because I applied the above.Yours lasted two and it seems you've had double the pain. The age group from 45-60 are the worst messers but I wouldn't take a break from dating if I were you.You take a break and really nothing changes in the meantime.A break doesn't make you any tougher and dating is discovery.I think jumping back on the saddle but with reinforced armour is the way to go.Best of luck!
Lynda from L. says:
@Lynda fromL/Hi Flower White, you've probably worked out that the reason you didn't hear from this guy is because sex wasn't on the agenda as quickly as he liked. I also empathise with the e mails… my AC/future faker was big on words in general and wooed me this way for a long time. Its easier for them than looking a woman in the eye and saying the words. That way they can get the reaction without feeling commited. It took me a long time to realise this. Your lucky to have escaped as quickly as you did. Best wishes for future happiness x
Flower White says:
@Lynda from L.
Thank you very much for your kindness.
You and Katy are angels.
Your advice is valuable and again, I appreciate your consideration!
Flower White
gina says:
How timely, I know I've made progress and not living in a fog of illusion thanks to you and my intent… I was thinking last night about how after the guy I was dating demonstrated the shadiest of behavior, for a minute I had the sense to break it off but bc of the fact of my low self esteem in no time the tables were turned back on me, then I felt like I had to question myself and my judgement of the situation… the reality was I at that point of my life, was surrounded my toxicity, my truth was just beginning to surface…so it took time for me to desifer my ass from my elbow, and I was able to build my life around truth and have it reflected around me.
gina says:
And to add all my dating was started by future fakers and fast forwarders, I felt it wasn't right but now I know I wasn't preparred for something real, we go through this process to discover ourselfs, bc a lot of us didn't even know who we were… now that intensity would raise a biiiggg flag and id be very turned off.
PAB says:
When you are driving down the road you mainly focus on the road in front of you. Rarely do we ever keep our eyes on what's behind us and what's to the left or right of us for more than a few seconds at a time. Yet, concerning many matters of our lives, we fail to look ahead and keep driving along. In our relationship insanity we tend to look around and look behind instead of looking ahead. We allow mistakes to resurface by recalling them. That's driving by looking in the rear view mirrow. By wondering 'what if' won't change the past. Again, we're taking our eyes off of the road that's ahead.
Once you know where you're going and who you are, you'll begin to focus on what's ahead of you more often. There is nothing wrong with remembering the past mistakes, heartaches, trials and tribulations, but there is something wrong with living in the past.
Keep the faith and stop looking behind you and to the left or right. We won't get ahead by looking back. If we do, we're liable to have a wreck.
Time to move forward!
Mel AM says:
I needed this so much. I have been struggling with a bad break up for months… I am still perplexed for how things happened… he was talking about getting married two days before braking up with me. TWO DAYS before he said he was looking for an engagement ring!! He wanted me to get pregnant, he wanted to get married, he traveled to meet my family, and then after all the pantomime he just dissapeared from my life and my daughters life..
I was in shock!! he never mentioned that anything was wrong, he never pointed any issue between us, and all of a suden it turns out that he "felt unhappy" and decided that it was not a good idea to share his life with me. Of course I blamed my self, I could not believe what was happening, I must confess that I begged him to reconsider, to stay, I said we can work it out, we can go back to where we were… then he sent me an awful harsh email where he literally told me that the idea of spending the rest of his life with me made him feel "terrified"… TERRIFIED!!! the man who I thought was the love of my life was terrified when thinking of a future together!!!
God, I can explain or describe how I feel now. I feel like no one can love me, I wonder if everything was a lie, I am devastated. Is not just the fact that he promised the life I have always wished for, but I felt there already and he broke my heart and left with all my dreams…
I often ask myself, am I really that horrible? am I some sort or idiot, how could I not see this coming?? I swear he never showed his disconfort, he kept saying how much he loved me and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me…
An the end I asked him why did he promised so much, and his answer was "I dont know… I feel like a different person sometimes…."
ICanDoBetter says:
I'm so sorry he put you through that. It's a tough place to be when everything seems to be taken from you all of a sudden. I hope you know this is a place where we can empathize with that.
I don't know if this helps to hear right now or not, but he sounds like he was terrified of confrontation. And intimacy. As you begin to heal, I hope it will be of some comfort to you to know that it would be very difficult to share a life with someone who cannot express any concerns within the relationship. Please know that whatever issues or concerns he had does not make you someone that no one can love, because I can hear in your comments that you cared for and loved him very deeply.
His inability to express concerns is more of a reflection of him. It sounds like he was trying really hard to make himself not be afraid of commitment, and so he said all the right things and almost married you. His freak out could have come later, after you were married, either in the form of abandonment or cheating. His fears are his issues, and I wouldn't want to see you let that destroy the lovely person you are.
Lynda from L. says:
For seven months I have been involved with a Future Faker(apparently a serious serial one,previous relationships too!) and allowed myself to be fast forwarded into what I presumed was going to be the love of my life. Tonight I started No Contact with this man and am determined to get my life back on track.
Until I found this site and this article/articles on future faking bandits I doubt I would have been able to recognise it and get myself off the barbed hook. Everything the article describes I have been through, including promises of a life together,holidays which never materialised,living arrangements which fell at first hurdle. Plans to meet my son etc etc.
I did not imagine this. These things were said to me in order for him to continue to access sex,company and a listening ear. I listened to him, work, family,stress,back rubs. He listened to me…occasionally.
Tonight I am literally in pieces but the words that Natalie shared have helped me to rationalise that 'I WAS NOT WRONG'
I did not make up his words. I made the mistake of believing them.
Last night was the absolute pit of despair. We 'd been apart because of his lack of follow through to anything. My expectations were managed down so much by then that he was starting to go off with mates without warning, I didn't know when I would be let down or even if he would commit to seeing me at weekend. Anyway I sent him an e mail, after he had been contacting me by text etc( I know lazy,lazy communication…late at night when he was pissed. I have been daft!!)
I was specific about what I thought was happening between us. I wondered if he got scared when he was due to commit. I wanted to slow the relationship down, be honest about what our needs were and see what was left.
He wanted to meet(For sex of course, I see it now),we did. I thought perhaps he's thought it over and will change,admit he's scared. I simply couldn't believe someone would be so callous in their lying and hypocrisy to anyone. He continued to lie… To be honest I still felt uneasy all night that despite the banter and the flirting that nothing had changed but… I TRULY hate myself for this…but we had sex again.
He was his old raunchy self but in the morning something had changed. He lay beside me(after sex) and actually said that he had managed down my expectations…at his age after being on his own for six years(after being serially unfaithful to his wife) he said' Its difficult to commit to anyone'. He said this musingly…whilst the goalposts were taken off the field. Then spoke about taking his kids to a Disney film. Then he pulled the sheets off the bed whilst I was still sitting on it…to get on with his washing. I think he was almost ritually humiliating me. It felt like this.
I allowed myself to momentarily hear what he had been saying to me over months'There is noone like you'. I have sky high expectations of this relationship, Do you see this as your home?(His house), Do you see yourself living here, I cannot be without you….etc etc etc….Then I felt that I got real for the first time. I looked at him, a man in middle life, lots of material stuff/potential who was unhappy unless he was changing his romantic traffic lights every junction. I knew I had been horribly used.
I also knew I had been mad to ignore my own red flags for so long. I left and sat at the train station outside his house and cried for a little while but by the time the train stopped I felt better, Not angry or frustrated just active. He actually said as I left the house ' I would love to see you again' What!!!!!!!!!! For a curry and shag on a friday after he'd said he had fallen in love with me and wanted a life with me. A Mind F..k which I 'm sure he may get off on..
When I got home I wrote down and am still writing what I got from the relationship. Not much. I had a shared sense of humour,love of books film,art with him. I was never bored by his conversation. The sex which could be intense was stuck on button raunchy for him however and never deepened emotionally. I think he had never truly had sensual romantic sex.
Despite him obviously being much better off financially than me at the moment I always felt obliged to pay my way as best I could. There was something about the transaction between us with regard to money which made me uneasy. I'm glad I paid what I could and watched him going off for weekends,breaks without me. I feel I owe him nothing. What kept me in it was his insistence on the relationship's potential, that I was unique 'the full package' as he said. That we should'articulate a future together'. Then he did nothing. Well, he lied and used lies to manage the relationship
I 'm sad now and hopefully wiser. My heart goes out to the women who came before me with him and their pain and undoubtedly for the women to come. I hope they find this site and the support on it. I feel sick, completely sick with myself and am trying to stop beating myself up. Soon I hope x
Aimee says:
@ Lynda
I am so sorry to hear your predicament. It makes me sad to see so many of us encountering such people. I had to face the fact that my AC was very shallow. So much of your story reminded me of mine or should I say "his story". What happened to these men and women? It's the cat and mouse game that Nat talks about. I had a hard time fathoming such nonsense and that people really exist out there like this. AND that it continues for so long for them thru numerous "relationships" and the next one keeps coming along hoping they will be the exception like I did.
I had so many red flags. Especially the one where he said his sister-in-law thought he was going to marry her sister (He dated his brother's wife's sister – if that makes sense). As he future faked, lied, cheated, changed the goal posts, pulled the friend card, – NAME IT – he did it! It became clear to me that he ran the same game on every woman – NO WONDER they all thought he was going to marry them – including me – the exception!! LOL
I wanted to tell you that it does get easier and better. I have been broken up with mine for 7 months on the 15th. I am still gathering my energy back from the last 3 years – the distance has helped me to see the truth, much more peace because of no more mind f**ckery on his part and mine trying to believe his every lie, con, or future faking.
This site was and is my sanity. I could not have done the grieving process w/o it. There are wonderful people here who will be there for you – they were for me!! Healing & Loving thoughts to you!
Lynda from L says:
@Lynda from L. Thanks for lovely words Aimee. I feel that I did absolutely everything to enable the relationship to work, including trying to work out whether he could stop the fakery/commitment issues. When it's ingrained in someone's make-up as it was in this guys, I doubt he will change. In his orbit, after all, it works for him. In a truly bizarre way he actually thinks he's a gentleman to women…( I can only presume because, at times he affects this kind of chivalrous manner)…whilst stiching them like kippers emotionally in terms of their expectations. Can I just say that like you I have feared my sanity at times. You keep on saying to yourself 'didn't he promise me this' whilst he pretended ignorance.
I'm glad to hear your life is refreshed and new again. I felt absolutely sordid after my last encounter with him and it's taken me a while to get rid of that. Additionally, I've just worked out/had worked out for me by a friend that he was possibly seeing an old girlfriend whilst our relationship was going on so strangely that's helping. I should get proof of this tomorrow and it will verify that he was indeed Future Faker Extremis(sadly not extinct). Thanks again for support and take care Lx
Aimee says:
@ Lynda – Search my name above to see the articles I have commented on and you will get the giest of my story if you want.
Mine had to have at least 5 admiring him while with me. My AC was very kind, giving money to the poor, always there for his neighbors (not me tho), opening the door for me, drawing baths for me. But what counted – honesty, love, respect, monogomy, commitment were not in his make-up. I thought it was cause he was not in love with me (even tho he would insist that he was and then flip/flap around that) or thought it was my fault. But this is his history and that is what the distance has shown and proved to me.
He would always say how all his ex's want him back and he really believes he is a good guy. He's not all bad, but the bad is BAAAADDD!!
What's sad is his sister and brother in law continue to call me and tell me how much they love me, what a good person I am, how kind I am, that I was the best thing that ever happened to him (exception -hahaaha) – blah blah. I am sure he has ran into and ran over many beautiful women. God Bless his sorry soul!!
Lynda from L. says:
@ Lynda from L. Thanks again Aimee,this rings bells for me too… I read NML's earlier posts about how some EUM'S /FF's are desperate to appear as good people despite the core behaviour of treating women dishonestly. This is spot on for my man…he actually referred to himself as 'always being a professional gentleman'despite having a fck buddy in his life for more than a decade who kept on popping up whenever he needed a sexual/ego fix. This relationship ultimately ended his marriage and I now know he still sees her. Why??? He has slagged her off to me on several occasions her looks, her ways…unfathomable.
On many levels we could have had it all but when I start to think that I remind myself of how difficult it was becoming to stay sane while he flip flapped in front of me…
One thing he admitted on our last night together: he said that he was guilty of always finding fault with women…eventually. His attachment behaviour is so screwed up in general! He recognised this as a problem and I think its ultimately his way of rationalising his behaviour by transferring fault to the women… His problem tho'!
I'm off to read your posts before bed, grateful for the support. I know I 'm pretending to be better than I am xxx
Melanie says:
Oh Lynda from L and Aimee. Thanks for your posts. Makes me feel not quite so all-alone to hear about these 'charmers'. I keep getting them too. Everyone thinks they're oh-so-great. But sure, they're great all right. They're great to aaalll the ladies if you know what I mean. Too bad the one who has actually consented to engage in a relationship with them is relegated to collecting whatever charming crumbs fall off when he's finished 'being there' for every one else!
Melanie says:
I feel like my last bf forced ME to fast forward in a way. After our first date and him talking about his harem (of course he didn't use that word haha). I then (when we talked a couple days later) brought it up to him, how I didn't like it (his harem), and asked him if it's been a problem for him in past relationships, and asked if he was looking to stay single or looking for a relationship. I told him I was looking for a relationship and wasn't interested in having a serious relationship (let alone a husband) who had a female best friend and a whole string of other girls hanging around (so he lied that he was past that behavior and he was glad I pointed it out to him, he would change, blah blah..I was skeptical but decided to give it at least a little chance) After that conversation we resumed dating a bit longer, which gave me enough time to see that he was really what I feared he was, and he really didn't 'get it' or see things the way I do (though he kept saying he did). I kind of resented the fact that instead of he and I being able to relax and get to know each other slowly, I was forced to bring up the 'R' word "relationship" right away. But at the same time I wasn't about to pretend that I enjoyed his harem, keep seeing him for a couple years, then tell him "Oh, by the way, I don't like your harem, please get rid of it." Anyway I guess I just felt forced to fast forward and didn't like it. Maybe that's part of the drama he enjoys. That and I suspect he hoped I would fight with his other girls over him. I guess he'll have to find a different girl to play gladiator games over his hand lol….
Kay says:
I am really upset tonight and need to post.This is related to posts I've already contributed to this topic on the subject of meeting future fakers on the Internet though I'm really sorry if this one is off topic.I've recently had two dates and lots of phone chats and texts with a guy I met on line.I really liked him but felt he was doing a lot of chopping and changing about arranging the third date.I also felt that he seemed to want to call the shots.Anyway several days of no contact and I assumed that was the end of the matter.But today he texted wanting to know why he hadn't heard from me.I replied truthfully that I was extremely wary of guys I meet online given the huge number of messers and players and also that he could have contacted me all week.Well he really got up on his high horse and said he was really insulted at the implication that he was a messer.I clarified that I didn't mean it personally and didn't intend any offence.Several tooing of froing of texts ensued,the tones on both sides aggrieved but civil.Then he said he wished me well and I asked what the hell he meant by that.He said he tended to shy away when his sincerity was called into question.Am I missing something here? Is it just me or has anyone else been frustrated by guys who bail at the first cross word or misunderstanding? I see it as a control thing,the person who bails gets to have the final say and make it all about them.Hardly conducive to forging healthy relationships. That sort of thing has happened to me loads of times and it's my major source of insecurity,the fact that I could be dumped basically for looking crossways at a guy. I feel really confused all over again.Natalie,maybe you might do a post some time please on how to handle conflict at the early stages of relationships.Is one person's inability to handle conflict/complaints a major red flag? Thanks and I hope I haven't gone too off topic.
You're in somewhat of a grey area because it was two dates. To be honest, I know you say you didn't mean it personally, but actually you did. That doesn't mean you're wrong for feeling how you do, but if someone asks you why they haven't heard from you and you tell them it's because you're wary of messers, then yes, it's personal, because that is the reason why you didn't get in touch. This is too much effort for two dates and someone you hardly know and the awkwardness has only further been compounded by this entire exchange taking place over text, which is lazy communication and a great dirty chasm for misinterpretation.
Dating, nevermind online dating is frustrating and to be honest, both sexes are equally guilty of bailing if things get awkward early on and it's because it's early on. You're not in a relationship – you're not even technically dating one another – you're two people who've been in contact and gone on two dates. Being truthful, neither of you handled the conflict particularly well, and actually, you'll find that most people find conflict with people they don't know very well tricky. You did too otherwise you'd have said something prior to him sending you that text message.
How you feel is valid but how he feels, even if he hasn't worded it well, is also valid too. You cannot control how he should react no more than he can. You're only looking at this situation from your perspective and he's only looking at it from his.
It's very difficult to gauge tone and they have no prior basis to measure it against. In this circumstance, you went with how you felt (being flaky and flip flapping about arranging a third date is discomforting) but it would have been more than enough to say 'To be honest, I'll admit that I was a bit confused by all the chopping and changing about arranging this third date'. This is also more than a cross word and misunderstanding because unfortunately what this conversation made clear was that for the past few days, how you'd felt was how you'd felt and nothing was said prior to it. The truth is that if this is a major source of insecurity, you need to find a way to handle it. If it feels familiar, opt out. You don't know them. Dating is a discovery phase. If you're unsure but not too bothered, see what happens on the next date. If you're unsure but are bothered, say so. If someone will opt out (you're not in a relationship to be dumped) because you were annoyed, then it's best you know now. Re dealing with conflict at the early stages, word honestly but carefully and leave the insecurity out of it. State what they've done, not what others do.
At the end of the day, he could have easily called and to be honest, that text was a 'feeler' – I suspect he knew something was wrong and played down him not being in touch by making it about you. I get that you liked him, but ensure that your reaction and how long you take to get over this is proportionate with the experience. Feel better! I'm off to bed. x
kirsten says:
@ Kay…first of all I think it's very easy to misunderstand text messages and honestly, it's a pretty big question for him to ask you via text so early in the relationship. So maybe he should have grown some balls and asked you face to face or via a phone call why he hadn't heard from you.
Also he's the one flapping around with making third date plans, not you.
Him cracking the shits when you were honest with him….red flag my dear….NEXT!!!
Melanie says:
Kay, it sounds like he spooks very easily. Also, why didn't he call you and simply set up a date? I like the man to initiate things during the first date and first few dates. Call me old-fashioned, doesn't bother me. I think overall men are more the pursuers than women, and I like it that way. So yes why was he so prissy about asking why you hadn't called him? I don't know all the details of what happened but I understand what you're saying about guys who seem to blow away at the first mild breeze. I figure if they're that skittish then they probably can't handle a relationship. I had a guy a while back do similar with me. I knew him because I came into his work place regularly. I got the strong impression he was interested for over a year. FINALLY he asked me if I'd meet him for coffee (outside of work). I said yes, we agreed on Saturday, I gave him my number. He asked 'what time should I call?' I said 3. He said ok I'll call you at 3. Well he didn't call till about 5:15 on Saturday. I wasn't really angry, but a bit annoyed because he had called more than 2 hours later than he said he would. Well when pressed, I pointed it out to him. Then he became very defensive, he kept trying to say it wasn't his fault. I tried to put things in perspective, and said look, it's a misunderstanding, let's just start over and move on. We did still meet up for coffee, we talked for about an hour, I thought it was fun and went well, we both left to go to separate places, and I hoped I'd hear from him again. But instead every time I saw him after that (usually when I went into where he worked) he gave me the cold shoulder. I tried again and again to be friendly. I said 'hi' and smiled. Asked how he was. He was civil, but not nearly as friendly as he had been before that, if he was talking to someone he barely gave me the time of day, in fact it seemed like he went out of his way to be 'unavailable' when I came in. But he still always stared at me a lot. Whereas before our coffee-date he used to go out of his way to speak with me, giving me special attention, asking me questions and chatting with me. I was disappointed because I thought he liked me and I liked him. But eventually I just gave up trying and actually avoided him just for my own sake, so I wouldn't have to keep feeling rejected every time I was around him. Then several months ago he disappeared from there. I don't know if he quit or got fired or layed-off, or moved to a different city. He's not there and I don't want to ask one of the workers where he went because then they'll gossip that I was asking. Anyway I felt like if I said ONE thing wrong a guy would blow away, and not even try to talk or work it out. Even if all you're saying is politely pointing out that they are over two hours late.
Kay says:
Natalie,thank you so very much for coming on so late at night to help and give advice.That is so very kind and I hugely appreciate it.Melanie and Kirsten,thanks as well.Flying out the door now so will come back and read properly later.From this incident I have learned that I must watch my words and tone.That's true as I shoot from the hip.However one of girls said he seems to spook easily and I would agree.I still think it's a bad sign if people spook and bail so early.It's one thing to bail when there is eveidence of disrespect and shoddy standards.But bailing over the first cross word /argument when these things come from the confusion of the early stages! A bit of staying power and some tolerance is surely important. He did text again late last night to aploogise for upsetting me and I texted this morn to accept the apology and apologise in turn so at least there's no ill feeling and ball in his court.Anyway gotta fly.Huge thanks again to all.xx
grace says:
in his defence, you did imply he was a messer. that's how i read it. and men, like women, do not want to be judged as if they were a loser ex.
it's only two dates. i may be alone in this but if a man/woman disappears after two dates i would let them stay disappeared. I certainly would not be chasing after them for an explanation. What's to explain? He could just hate your accent, or something personal has happened that we really have no right to know after just some coffee and a pizza. Or they may just be flakey, in which case … buh-bye.
It's only two dates. It's not a relationship and I wouldn't even describe it as the early stages of a relationship.
See how it goes, be aware.
And not too much texting!
Allison says:
I agree.
Kay, hard as this may be to hear…you spook and bail early too. If you think it's a bad sign that he was spooked by what you said, don't you think it's a bad sign that you were spooked by what not just what he did and do, but your previous online experiences also? Just because you didn't turn around and say 'see ya' doesn't mean that you hadn't bailed *anyway*. Read back what you've said in your last few comments, and ask yourself if those are the words of a woman who if she hadn't bailed already, was at least already halfway off the diving board? You talk about staying power and tolerance – it cuts both ways! You must judge how you date by how you date – how he thinks, feels, and acts is not the same as you and you cannot say what his comfort levels should and shouldn't be. He could equally turn to you and question your comfort levels and spooking and you'd think he was out of order. The ball is not in his court. The ball is in both of your courts. If you both want this to happen, you both have to put in effort.
ICanDoBetter says:
1) He wouldn't clearly commit to a third date.
2) Then you don't hear from him for several days. Enough time for you to figure that is the end.
3) Then he TEXTS you (doesn't call) to ask why he has not heard from you??????
So, it sounds like he was flip-flapping, then tries to turn it around on you for not contacting him.
You were wise to be cautious of this guy. He may actually be a messer, because he can't even act decently this early on. However, I think Natalie was right about only calling him out on his actual behavior.
But honestly, if you already see an issue this early on, maybe the better course of action would have been not to answer his text at all.
Kay says:
Thanks everyone for all the advice.Such perspective is invaluable as dating is a tricky business.
Natalie,I really hope your little girl gets well soon.It must be a very trying time for you but like all bad things,it will come to an end.Lots of hugs to you.xx
maria says:
Brilliant!!!!!! thank you so much!!!!!!
MaryC says:
Nat hope your little one gets better soon, thanks for another great post.
Thanks! It's been a tough couple of days – hate to see her so unwell!
Blaming myself for whatever went wrong in a relationship? Guilty.
Believing that all men are lying cheating dirtbags? Guilty.
Believing that no one could love me? Guilty.
Self-fulfilling prophecy? Guilty.
Even now, these are a struggle for me when it comes to all kinds of relationships – if I did or didn't do or say this, then maybe _____ would or wouldn't happen and I'd still have this romantic relationship or that friendship or that familial bond with (insert any family member here). It takes lots of conscious effort to remember that an assclown (man or woman) is an assclown because of THEMSELVES, not me.
I'm a work in progress and, therefore, take responsibility for my actions in the hopes of growth & personal betterment. But a deceitful sneaky conniving weasel I am NOT. Therefore, I no longer blame myself for any assclown's behaviors. It's hard to rid oneself of negative actions & thought patterns (thinking one is less than, unworthy, subhuman, deserves assclown behavior, etc.), but it CAN be done.
It totally can be done. At the end of the day, if we all made ourselves responsible for other people's behaviour, nobody would learn a damn thing. When we make ourselves responsible for our own actions and don't see others as some sort of mirror of negative stuff about us when they behave this way *generally*, we learn and do many things.
Agreed. Took a long time to learn, but better late than never.
pam says:
Greetings to all.
I'm so glad I found this site..just wish I had discovered it a few years back.Yes YEARS,for anyone belting themselves up ..don't.There are men who don't ever deserve to meet a loving ,decent and caring woman..yet they find us ,use us ,then move on to the next,come back ,use us, lie,move on,come back ,use us ,lie move on ,come back etc etc tc .Why on earth would anyone let someone else treat them like that ? It's taken me so long to realise ..and Natalie hit it on the head..the subconscious action of feeling rejected .Which in turn creates feelings of wanting to be validated and be wanted by a dysfunctional JERK. The Jerk I refer to …came back into my zone a few months ago . It took him approx 6 weeks to hook me back in …only to find the usual BS still existed this time under the guise of his supposed still learning to set boundaries with the women in his life ..which he actually forgot all about , while asking me out to dinner,being intimate with me and sleeping in my bed with me on the night. Yes poor misguided Lying Bastard had the audacity to explain it all away… with he realised after he had done all of that ,that he shouldn't have.Well I for one have since , fully typed out and signed a NO CONTACT contract with myself..THANK YOU NATALIE…the one consolation I do have is knowing that this guy is a big time loser…and that the possibility of him ever changing is NIL.
pam says:
Hello guys,it's me Pam again..forgot to add as a PS in my last mail.
How during the last communication we shared ..he stressed how he so values my friendship , and believes wait for it …."WE" can still be friends .
Natasha says:
Pam – I was in a very similar situation (and when I say similar, I mean pretty near identical) and I got "I value your friendship and I hope we can still be friends" too! You want to be like "Ummmm so when you were wooing me, promising the world…we were friends all along?" It's actually funny, because who in their right minds wants someone who has shown themselves to be a liar and a user for a friend? When I read your "big time loser" line, I laughed – so true!!
Theotoks says:
I had a future faker who, I think, was sincere — at least at first. He built us a house to live in on his property. After ten years together, he expected me to move in with him. I was an EUW but I did a ton of work on myself and became "all in" the relationship. But he didn't do any work, so he was still an EUM. He broke up with me via a three-line email, two days before I put my home on the market. Aaaaaaaaagh.
Now he is sending me roses and balloons that say "I Love You." Very confusing.
Confusing?! More like outrageous. If he feels so much for you, particularly after a three-line breakup email and doing it two days before you're putting your house on the market, he needs to be doing a damn sight more than sending roses and balloons. It takes more than a gesture. Sending that shit is easy – manning up and speaking to you directly or at the very least picking up the phone is EFFORT.
Shyner says:
Having a duff day of it, today. We've been in touch. I sit here thinking all the right things and then…..texted him. Brilliant! Well done me. I'm v. v pissed off with myself. I didn't go into one – I just said 'hope you're well' and then we got chatting about nothing inparticular. Chatting is supposed to make you feel good because it's light-hearted etc but instead, I just feel like a mug and he gets to feel quite up himself. I find myself rather tedious, just now. I shouldn't even care what he thinks of me, I shouldn't even want him in my life. In fact, oddly, I sort of don't – I dn't have any great urge to speak to him directly. This is boring. For all his chattiness, I know damn well he's not really all that bothered about speaking to me. Dignity is all and I have virtually none.
grace says:
be true to yourself and how you feel. if you don't feel lighthearted, don't be lighthearted. and don't sent a casual text hoping for a serious reply. with my last encounter, I sent literally hundreds of texts . waste of time but at least I had an unlimited text plan, ha.
But really nothing happened. You just made a mistake and sent a text. Your dignity is still intact. You feel a bit disappointed in yourself and in him for not coming up with the goods (again, I've no doubt). Go for a walk, tidy up, make a nice dinner. Just put it out of your head.
Lynda from L says:
@ Lynda from L/ Don't beat yourself up about it too much. You know your mistake. I empathise with you completely about this ' line dance' of the Future Faker. You are right they do feel up themselves/feather in their cap after you call.After all, you're still there and they can spin you a few more lies and go to bed thinking'Wow I 'm in control of my life'. They are usually well out of control,stressed and need acute micro management in their personal relationships with women to feel normal… My experience with other guys who are honest emotionally is that they don't make you feel this way. There's no loss of face whoever phones. EUMS/future fakers are all about maintaining control….Good Luck x
Shyner says:
I just texted saying 'our chatting has made me a bit sad so let's leave it a while before we chat again'. And he texted back 'ok'. Ha! Will I ever learn?!
runnergirlno1 says:
Hi Lynda from L and Shyner. I'm with you. Shyner, Grace is right. Tidy up, go for a walk, and make a nice dinner. When you come back read Natalie's post "Suck and See" with a nice glass of wine. Lynda from L, it is so good to see you are doing better? I couldn't believe how I got so suckered into the future faking, fast forwarding, and running hot scam. I'm only into 3.5 months of NC and there are duff days (great phrase). But I know that with one text, email, or phone call, I can become the "other woman" again within 30 seconds. I know that he would be here in a heart beat to get a shag, shoulder to lean on, and his needs met. I know after he left, I'd be a wreck wondering where the nearest train tracks were.
No more wondering. No more train tracks. No more! Duff days be damned. Duff nights after he left and went home to his wife were way worse. Future fakers, however need to have a special place in hell.
Lynda from L says:
Thanks Runner Girl.. I agree that they are the worst type of emotional unavailables because they are at heart amoral. Yet the shell seems what you've been looking for all along! He shape shifted to be what I wanted at start of relationship. He'll be preparing to shape shift again for someone else….. I know!
I'm ok but just had to come home from work today because I was feeling so sad,sickened really . I know it's wrong of me but I had a quick look at all the mail he had sent me in the past…literally just to confirm that I wasn't insane and there they are 'All the words of love and promises' I am so angry with myself for sleeping with him and believing that I was in a long term relationship. I have to accept that the feeling will be with me for a while. And the time I 've lost to him!! Aaaargh.
I will keep busy, am seeing friend tonight. Thanks do much for posting those words to me. I appreciate it so much x
Sarah says:
This post couldn't have come at a better time. I feel completely and utterly stuck. It's been almost 4 months since he broke up with me and almost 2 months of NC.
I've been trying to get out of the house and do things the past couple of days because I'm so sick of feeling the way I do but I still feel stuck. You know, knowing something and actually believing something are two different things. The rational part of me knows his actions have nothing to do with me but that doesn't stop me from feeling unworthy and unlovable. I just don't understand why. Why go through all the trouble of lying if he didn't mean it? I'm so glad I didn't have sex with him but for him to break it off after I said no to sex makes me feel so stupid for believing him when he said he had no problem waiting. I'm having problems accepting that it wasn't real. I'm mad at myself for not being over him already. Last week he texted me ( I didn't respond) to thank me for kicking him in the ass and how well he is doing now and how he is sorry for being an indecisive a**hole to me and hopes I won't hate him forever. It took a lot not to text back. What was the point of telling me all that? The only thing it accomplished was to make me feel like crap. I felt like crap for not responding, I felt like crap because he is doing so well and I'm not. I felt like crap because I wanted him to apologize and now he kind of did, but it meant nothing to me. I feel like crap for letting him get to me. I just feel like crap.
TeaTime says:
Sarah, I share your thoughts. It feels like a lose-lose situation, where however you look at it you feel like crap. On my bad days, I tend to feel like this (It's only been 3 months NC).
On good days, this is what I tell myself – I entered the relationship with a level of trust that I would expect the other person I am seeing to also have. When I tell someone something, and they reply, I'm going to trust them until their actions prove otherwise. If I trusted him when he fed me his lies, I shouldn't feel like crap. HE should feel like crap for lying! In your case, you were standing up for your boundaries and values, and you should be so proud of yourself that you did that. If he walked away from you for that reason, that shows he never respected you or cared for you. If, until that moment, he didn't act in a way that showed his true colours and you were trusting him, then you shouldn't feel bad for trusting him because that's what any normal person in a relationship would have done!
As for his reply, again, I wouldn't feel like crap. My EUM also contacted me after I told him I was cutting contact with him, giving me a half-apology that he didn't intend for me to feel hurt. He has since gone on to another girl, and as I had posted here a few weeks back he even had a pic of them together on vacation on fb. At first, I was struck with feeling envy and started to point the finger at myself again. But, thanks to this site and other commentors, I realized I shouldn't feel like crap for any of this. His apology was a way to make himself feel better because these EUMS only care about their image and how they're perceived by others, NOT our feelings. And for him moving to the next girl? I now sadly see her as just another victim of his games. He didn't stick around with me because I was starting to call him out on his behaviour. He's probably sticking around with her because she puts up with it.
Please, please, please do not feel like crap! I say this as someone who has days like this too. Just remember that you stood up for yourself. A sane, healthy, emotionally available man is going to appreciate you for that one day. You can do so much better than this guy. Feel good that you didn't go down to his level!!
Melanie says:
I definitely agree that guys like that lose interest just as quickly as they've been "found out". It's literally just that quick. "Oh I've been discovered? Bye!!" I've watched it before. It's all so much fun for them. The deceiving us. Once they realize we're not deceived, It's 'GAME OVER'. On to the next. Just that quick. All pretenses gone. Mask off. Sheep's clothing flying behind in their dusty shadow as it scurries off to find another victim. I suppose for those of us who can spot them, and aren't fearful of calling them out, the one sure way for us to keep them around is to pretend not to understand their game. I don't want to pretend and I'm sure neither do you. Some girls can't work out their game and are likely to last longer with them. I think that the key is that the man believes he is successfully deceiving you.
Lynda from L says:
Oh Melanie, you have so got it on the nail there! The secret to what they get off on… is the duping of us…
Whilst we are innocent of the fakery they can say and do what they like. The minute we start to think Well he didn't do that,go there with me,give me that key(I got the keyring…the promised key never materialised!) Then when we approach them about this lack of follow through/action they are unmasked.The game is up. Yup,easy times stop for them…we are more questioning,wary,not so fun to be with,sex might stop….Time to move on for them. Another visit to superficiality city. Phew!
Thanks For this!!!x
I just wanted to add that my FF was killing himself emotionally and physically by the choice of his lifestyle. I think he's about to drop with stress and anxiety.
Aimee says:
I too got in the first 2 months that he was going to get keys made for me and make room in a drawer for me. The key to his house never materialized in 2 1/2 yrs (yes wasted 2 1/2 yrs). The drawer was another matter – after 3 months in I called him on inappropriate behavior and we ended up on a "break" because of his chronic pain (choke, puke, gasp) – that was his excuse. When we got back together I found a womans robe, shorts, watch in a drawer – the drawer that was suppose to be mine??!!!
I do not believe he is totally concious – less. That is why I believe he lives in chronic pain. He's stuffing all his emotional crap into his body. Man he has at least 30 yrs of that crap built up in his body!!! And it will only get worse until he deals with it all – if he even does.
Thinking of you. Feel the pain, do the work, reach out to friends!!! STAY NO CONTACT!!
Sarah says:
Thank you so much TeaTime!! Reading your response made me feel a lot better. I really appreciate your encouraging words. There were red flags that I ignored and I take responsibility for that but that is all I take responsibility for. I trusted him more than I should have because I was a little naive when it came to sex and relationships and he was more experienced (I'm 23). His problems are not my fault and it is not my job to fix him or help him at the cost of me. I hope things keep getting better and better for you.
Allison says:
Be thankful you didn't respond! He only sent that text to make himself feel better. If we were a decent man he wouldn't have treated you so poorly to begin with. I'm sure he's done this many times before.
You need to get out and do things, anything! This is much to long to be sitting around the house obsessing over this guy. Time to take control of your life and get involved with activities, this is how you move on.
Yes! Be very thankful you didn't sleep with him.
Sarah says:
Thanks Allison!! You're right, I should be thankful I didn't respond, I am putting myself before him. I am starting to get out more. I'm having to force myself to do it but I guess it's like they say, 'Fake it until you make it'.
Allison says:
Good! Remember, he has already taking enough of your precious time, don't let him take more.
When I ended it with the ex, I got involved in everything (classes,yoga, dancing mediatation, volunteering etc..), not only did I find new activities and friends, I recognized where I had been lacking in life. I saw that my life had been limited; therefore, I was more susceptible to toxic types of people: boyfriends and friends. With the activity came the self esteem and positive people, I can honestly say that I am greatful for for the relationship, as I have completly changed my life and boundary levels.
It's all good, if you grow from the experience!
RitaBean says:
I just kicked an emotional faker to the curb yesterday, so seeing this post today confirms what I was dealing with an already knew. Its a damn shame how full of it people can be. Thankfully I have learned and passed the test. Never again.
Nevertoolate! says:
I was only seeing my MM/AC for 3 months (it's been over since christmastime), but today was my birthday, and I was hoping on some level he would remember and would e-mail me, but I guess not, so I have decided to try be happy, that I got to spend it with my mum and female cousins, strong women who support each other. Tomorrow when this day is over I will feel better, it is only another day. I think what really bothers me is that my dad (my parents divorced when I was very young) used to forget my birthday every year, too. So, there you go, he was my original AC LOL!
Allison says:
What would you have gotten if he had made contact. Perhaps, it could have pulled you back in?
The man is married and is unavaiable, be happy he didn't contact you! Married men are a no win!
pam says:
Hello ladies,
Take heart,we have all made the mistake of initiating contact with someone we know fully well is nothing but a jerk. The good thing with mistakes …they can be corrected ..becuase they are what they convey..a mis-take ..yes mis-take on our parts of the situation at hand, at the time.
It's not a loss of dignity unless you make it that..he has no conntrol or the ability to be able to claim the glory of you having lost dignity.
Jufo says:
Wow, I'm blown away by the post, and just as my by the replies – thank you, once again Natalie. My last relationship finished over 2 years ago, and I had finally realised that it was him, not me to blame.
I do still have one question though – why do I still feel so angry about it? I'm a peace-loving girl, but I swear I'd slap him if I ever saw him again (I toned it down, to be nice!).
candy B says:
nat – you rock big time sister x CB
"If you can't get over them, it's because you haven't accepted that what was on offer wasn't real… Next thing you know you're pursuing them to hold up their end of the bargain. They back away from you and no doubt give you a hard time, or you end up staying in a relationship long past its sell by date with someone whose actions don't match their words and you thinking that you have to put in double time to 'retrieve' the person they 'sold' to you and the relationship you were going to get, and 'recoup' your investment".
i was still trying to retrieve the guy i knew him to be on our third, forth and fifth dates back… six months later! now see thats close to impossible – coz i he probably never really was "all that" was on offer… hmmm, more thoughts to take me forward, cheers babe. CB
Cathy J says:
Sometimes EUM's really seem sincere and perhaps really do intend to do the right thing, especially if you have been seeing them for some time.
However EU's are EU – RED FLAG – run away… if they are serious about you then let them track you down after they have sorted themselves out whether that be via counselling, surrendering to God (and choosing to walk out that commitment daily within a supportive network), or somehow growing up! I previously thought sometimes a switch needs to be 'flicked' on, like a 'grow up now' sign. These days, I understand that the person needs to develop their emotional intelligence and not have the 'disconnect' as Nat so aptly calls it. Then relationship skills… definitely some work to be done (on their side).
Ensure you are nowhere near them. Leave them be, run the other way… and get on with your own life! There quite possibly is someone even better for you (once you decide not to accept the EU behaviour and truly move on).
Ali says:
I really needed this post and keep reading it over and over. But why oh why would someone "play" with you that long. are they warped in their mentality in some way. I have young child and just cannot get my head around how someone would do all of this? I am stunned! I have been nearly five weeks NC for which i am proud, however, i am devastated and feel suuuccchhh a fool and ashamed that i fell for it. Why Nat? I know you say to get what they want in the present. To keep lying, oh how i wish i got rid as soon as i saw the first red flag (two weeks into the "relationship"). But know my ex was a Narcissit and Sociopath. What a total fool i feel, am breathless!!
Why would people behave this way??? These people do some amount of damage.Unbelievable.
grace says:
I could promise you a million pounds. What fun you would have looking at fantastic houses, planning holidays and your early retirement. You'd probably think I was fantastic and really generous. You'd tell all your friends and family about it. I'd get a real ego boost from it. It would be fun for me to have made you so happy. But in x weeks time – maybe after you've handed in your notice at work – there's no money. I haven't got it. Oops.
Confront me, wait for me, cry, try to please me, argue. I still haven't got it.
Future Fakers haven't got anything genuine to give so they throw a lot of shiny stuff around. Marriage! Kids! A house! Holiday! Balloons! (yeah theotoks was sent balloons after her FF let her down). They're charming, fun, good-looking; there's sexual chemistry galore. But they can't deliver what really counts – consistency, respect, a plan. They can't see beyond their next shag/ego stroke. They're in love with this image of themselves that they've painted. They love having women fall in love with it. But eventually you and he realise he's not delivering so he'll disappear, blame you or generally misbehave.
He has no sense of responsibility, no direction, no empathy. He doesn't have it. He can't give it. He's a con artist. Maybe if a con artist had some genuine skills, could turn up, commit and behave like a grown up he'd get and keep a proper job. In the meantime, he'll stick to conning people. The hours are good.
He does it because all he's got is … nothing. I'd pity him except for the amount of damage he does.
Be glad you got away.
Natasha says:
Grace – that was all kinds of awesome!! You are one smart, perceptive lady!
Magnolia says:
You've described the experience really well. My ex promised me all the material stuff above, and had it: the money, the house, the good job, promise of marriage and kids. The one thing he seemed to promise and didn't have: Respect.
Confronted him, waited for him, cried, try to please him, argued. He still didn't have it. Bummer.
paintedlady says:
I truly believe one should add the words psychopath/sociopath into the mix when dealing with EUM/AC's because they share a lot of the same actions. I am not talking about the malignant psycho who is out to do you in, but the type who have a game plan/plan of action right from the very start.
These types usually latch on to vulnerable females as was the case with myself being recently widowed, promise you that now you are with them they will look after you, shower you with gifts, compliments, future fake, whatever, and all the time in their plan is 'what is in it for me' (meaning them). They have NO morals, usually shacking up with someone else behind your back, being sexually promiscuous comes easily in their world, they have NO integrity and they sure as hell behind the scenes play games which are all designed to get them money, power, sex and whatever else they desire. Because make no mistake, it really is ALL ABOUT THEM! They could not care less about you, because at the end of the day when they have either decided they have had enough of you, or else you have begun to suss them out – they are OFF to pastures anew and YOU are completely forgotten almost overnight.
I had this scenario happen to me and how i put up with it for 3 years i will never know, it just had to be because i had recently lost the love of my life after a healthy, happy, long marriage and had not been on the dating scene for years. But my word, i have now developed a steel resolve having been treated the way i was, especially at the end of the relationship with Mr devious, manipulative, compulsive liar, serial shagger behind my back, callous, calculating toad who wanted to move into my home and when i refused started to turn the screw on me, and treated me like something from underneath his shoe. He did not even have the balls to tell me he did not want me anymore, he waited until i told him i had had enough. He was always saying i did not trust him, but the funny thing was i did, until i was confronted with The Other Woman he had managed to keep a secret from me for over 18 months of the 3 year relationship we had !!
To cut a long story short, i have been NC for 8 months now, cried buckets at how i was taken in, felt demoralised, scared to try with a man once more, asked what was wrong with myself etc. BUT, i feel i am now going in the right direction and it is now ME who will calls the shots, instead of having someone tell me they will look after me etc. It has made me a lot harder in my dealings with men in particular because of all the hurt, but i have begun to date once more and it is giving me confidence that all men cannot be like the waste of space i spent 3 years going out with.
So its onwards and upwards, a new dawn for me. If there is one good thing to come out of all of this, its to know i am worth loving, i am worth persuing and best of all, i will now know what RED FLAGS are all about. Thanks Nat, i missed those before but thanks to you i can even smell them a mile off!
gala says:
I've just heard a song from Adele – Someone like you. It's just the saddest thing ever. It's about a girl who can't let go. It just made me think how incredibly sad it is to spend your life crying after someone who has moved on and has forgotten you. It's so tragic. Such a waste of time. We only live once. In the time we throw away by crying over those who abandoned us, we could have been happy doing things we love. Instead some choose misery. It's such a pity.
LostEnergy says:
Hi gala,
I think Adele has a great voice but her song choices are not what I'd call supportive or empowering of women. Her previous song has the lyrics about 'I'd go black and blue, go hungry for you, to show you my love'. It all sounds a bit too scarily similar to what many of us have been through. I need to find some more empowering female singer with positive lyrics!!
Sarah says:
In defense of Adele, that song you're refering to is a cover, 'Make You Feel My Love' by Bob Dylan.
Although, I agree with you. I wish there were more empowering songs out there. You should check out F**kin' Perfect by Pink!!
T says:
Thanks for this one today. I'm in a healthy relationship and very happy. But the ex-Mr. Unavailable haunted me last week. I needed this one.
I linked to it too. I know so many others who are still struggling as well.
Thanks again!
LostEnergy says:
My X told me he loved me within 2 weeks, introduced me to his son (from 1st wife) within 1 week of moving out of his (3rd) wife's. He pressurised me to move cross counties to live with him, used to moan at me that I hadnt got a job yet. Then when I did, he told me 'well, if you move in I wont get the same working tax credit' and we cant argue in front of his son… I moved to a place locally instead of in with him, having signed up to the place he lived in with the intention of it being our place.. he'd also make comments like 'I love *my* bed', think i'm gonna stay in *my* house for a while longer' etc, cutting me out of a place I helped to create, build up over every weekend that i drove to it for months (he'd stopped making the effort to drive to me using various excuses)…
I mean this behaviour in reality is horrible, having blamed myself for many things, I also went through a stage of blaming myself for not being assertive enough and calling him out on it…but to be honest, he'd got me pretty well trained in; if you create any kind of conflict, you'll pay with either arguing back for ages, or some kind of psychological mind abuse that would all end up meaning everything was my fault anyhow….
How do they get the time and motivation to spend creating these webs they weave?
Flower White says:
Thank you for your kindess, Kay.
Well, I'm not giving up on dating nor finding love and I am going on a date …tomorrow with a guy I met online.
I spent this weekend licking my wounds.
No FF from this new guy. We exchanged emails three times, had a phone conversation, exchanged more pics now we going to dinner.
Other than that I am going to copy/paste your advice and put in in a folder to read .
THANK YOU, Kay
I'm in San Francisco, is that means anything. California, yay and blech.
pam says:
It does seem aftrr reading many of the posts on here…the men that are the subject matter,are not only hurting,lying and conning us women who post on this site.
They are also doing it to more than woman simultaneously.
What liars,cheats and pathetic excuses for men, they are…I found out the man I was involved with was lying to me and doing that, even though I asked him if he was involved elsewhere.
His answer NO…the best one of all ..is he told me this..yet on face book ,I discovered a pic of him with another woman ( a couple kind of pic)
on her facebook page.
Her status stating for all the world to see.." in a relationship !!!!!!!! " when I mentioned this to him, he said she had just put the pic on there…well I'm sure most guys or gals wouldn't want a pic of them with the opposite sex, stating in a relationship , if they weren't involved with that person.The pic is still on there,the status is still the same and this is two months down the track ,from when I originally queried the pic. I do believe she is his Nemesis…he has finally met his match. I do know of her , and she's as, in fact I believe probably more manipu;ative and sneaky than he is.
In some regards she has well and truly wiped the floor with him…( two unplanned and unexpected by him..definately well planned and executed by her …pregnancys ) which both happned during their on/off relationship spells. I feel sad for what their selfish irresponsible behavoir has produced . Not to mention the two children she already had,and the one he already had when two such mirror images met.
perpetually single says:
I love how when I read your words, I don't feel quite so crazy or that I was the only one that has these things ever happen to. I was fast forwarded and it has been a struggle to get over him. Ok, the idea of what it could have been is probably more accurate. Your telling some of us that have lower self esteem etc. that we have more reason to get our house in order struck a cord with me. Can't wait to read your Mr. Unavailable book. Thank you so much for the information you provide.
Nobodys fool says:
Future Fakers…..two words…. Walter Mitty.
Fantasists and liars, buyer beware.. If you see or feel the red flags, run so fast that you leave burn marks on the floor! Trust your intuition and inner voice. Genuine people do not future fake and fast forward to cover up their flaws
Susan says:
I'm 2 days into NC…….feeling better already.
My perception of being with out this man are beginning to seem so overblown.
How could I breathe with out him ? I'm breathing ( ! )
will I still be sexy if I don't have him telling me so? (yes..I've gotten eyes from other men).
But I loved him so much. none of the other women will love him like me.
(so what !)
He must be thinking of me…( yes, and a few other women as well, so I'm not so special as he made me feel)
Was he lying to me to protect my feelings and not to hurt me? (that's what he told me.) He lied to make himself look like the hero.
Convinced me that he could care for me the way my ex failed to.
Honestly, the man cringed last week when I reminded him of how poorly he's treated me, for 5 years now.
Naturally I've capitalized on the "good times".
I had to.
I t gave him an out for the bad times.
I have a memory like an elephant..still yet I had hope.
Not 2 days after dinner and sex with him….I knew the jig was up again.
New girl for him..he confirmed via e-mail..more heartbreak for me.
Actually…he's been seeing this girl for a while.
I guess he thought it was about time to tell me after I threw myself at him after dinner and offered myself as dessert.
The "hero" and "good guy" that he is…he gave in to me.
It was awful.
The embarrassment of finding out a day later that he was involved in a "healthy" relationship really took me over the edge.
I sent him a final e-mail…..with my new found boundaries.
Blocked him on my cell……..as well as e-mail.
Thank you to all the bloggers, and especially to Natalie..I can do it.
Audrey says:
Nat: i meant to pst the above on the recent blog!! Happy St. Patrick's day tomorow!!! xoxo
Nubienne says:
Spot on Natalie. My ex AC did this. Fine, I moved on but he still has been trying to contact me (even up to a few weeks ago nearly six months after the break up), turns out I found out the whole time we were together he was with someone else! I feel bad for her.
Tracy says:
Reading this is so helpful. Single after a 24 year marriage, asked out by a fellow (who has been a neighbourhood friend for 13…he still lives around the corner) who was single after a 30 year marriage. Both in our early 50′s. Our children have grown up together and are best friends. There was just lots of things that suggested a positive outcome to getting to know one another.
He dumped me after 3 months. Didn't actually tell me though…just stopped communicating with me. I didn't know and was just merrily texting and waving when he drove by. When it dawned on me…I was just devastated. What the heck happened? I have no idea to this day. We never argued, we laughed all the time…liked the same things….loved our kids, and I have known this guy for 13 years (as just a friend).
But! reading here I see what I was just unable to see then…the Emotionally Unavailable Man, the Red Flags, the Fast Forward (very!), the Future Faking. And the Rebound Relationship! Wow…what was I thinking!! I am well educated, have a great job, have my own home, I work out, I am good humoured, have lots of friends, am not needy or clingy….it all just didn't matter. It wasn't about me. It was all about him.
I am still being so hard on myself. Mad, sad, confused, I am going to keep reading here and let the wise words help me move forward. Thanks.
Allison says:
That's terrible. Why couldn't he have had the decency to say something!!!! It's especially bad due to the long friendship and relationship with the kids.
Kepp coming here for support and advice.
Tracy says:
Thank you Allison,
It is really hard. I was gracious about it once I understood that he was not going to communicate with me at all. We were suppposed to spend New Years Eve together, he never showed. Then he was all nice and we slept together a few nights later (why Tracy???) and he told me what an amazing person I was and then never spoke to me again. I fell off the map. I believed him. We are not "young", no reason to set up all the lies. We talked about everything in life.
But…often late night calls, texts/emails, keeping us a "secret" (not wanting to hurt the children you know (-; or the "ex"???), 120 email in the first 3 weeks from him. Wanting to know where I was going and with who? Text me every night to say good night and every morning to say good morning…but would not go out for coffee with me. Drove by my house 6 times a day (he lives around the corner). Long talks about gardening in the summer, painting the houses…
I just believed him. I trusted him. I had no reason not to…(but yes I did…the signs were all there). I just didn't know. I think he met someone, I don't know and although I should not care. I was and am deeply hurt.
Here is the thing. Last time I "dated" was when I was 25. I truly was not aware of what to look out for. I believed that chemistry and communication and common outlooks on life would mean respectfulness. I was so wrong. Hard, hard lesson. So, if any of you are back to being single after half of your life in a marriage….read about what love is and what love isn't before you find yourself in a situation like myself. Used. Thanks again. Tracy
jubilee says:
Wow. I mentally tortured myself for weeks reflecting over what happened!
Just to briefly recap an old Childhood Sweetheart came back into my life after 20 years. It was everything you wrote in your post NML down to the marriage and baby details (spppooookkkyy how right you were on that btw!) and he told me he was recently divorced. I did not want to get heavy with him 1) because he was just divorced 2) because he lived all the way across the country from me. However he became so intense with his feelings about me and worked on convincing me to see that he and I were "meant to be together" He really layed it all on very thick. After 2 weeks I told him that I couldn't keep talking to him so much because I was using up all my mins on the phone, so he sent me a cell phone in the mail. Eventually he was pushing to come visit me. I was in a vulnerable place at the time he and I reacquainted and I was very depressed. He was like a breath of fresh air to me. After being so down, suddenly I was feeling so much happiness! little did I realize that this man was lying to me the whole time and he was actually MARRIED and not divorced at all. He persisted and I allowed him to come visit me. After speaking for 2 months we had a great time together for 6 days, his trip was 8 days long.
Suddenly he changed. He had been sappy sweet with his professions of love, future faking, fast forwarding, and suddenly he went cold and vacant. He did not want to talk so I gave him space. Nothing was the same after that. He was acting so strangely and I had a gut feeling there was another woman. I noticed that he kept his phone in the other room and I decided to check his texts. Sure enough there were 67 texts from his wife asking him to" please talk to her and to go to counseling with her."I confronted him and he turned it all around on me. I can't believe that I couldn't see what was right in front of me! He had so convinced me of his love! He ended up yelling at me that I had trust issues and leaving in the middle of the night. We never spoke again. I did a background check on him and found out not only was he married, but a lot of other things that he lied about.
I took it very hard and these were my thoughts that ran…
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