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Movie News
A Michigan Reader Hits The Traverse City Film Festival, Sees RELIGULOUS And FLASH OF GENIUS!!
Beaks here... I'm not sure if this is AICN's first review for Larry Charles's (or is that Bill Maher's?) RELIGULOUS, but it's definitely the first I've read. What's especially interesting is that it was written by an evangelical Christian who did his best to stay open-minded as Maher unleashed a blistering attack on his faith (and, from the sound of it, the faith of just about everyone else in the world). I'm not a huge fan of Maher myself (never liked his stand-up, and only watch his show for the guests), but anything that challenges folks to more closely examine their religious beliefs is, on balance, a good thing. Did Maher convert our contributor to atheism? You'll find out after you read his review for the comparably innocuous FLASH OF GENIUS.
(FYI, the version of RELIGULOUS screened in Traverse City was not final.)
Hi Harry, Mori, et al. I just got back from a couple of films at the 4th Annual Traverse City (MI) Film Festival, and since I haven't seen anything on your site about Greg Kinnear's "Flash of Genius" or Bill Maher's "Religulous," I thought I'd chime in with my two cents. So use these reviews however you want. First of all, a few words about the Traverse City Film Festival - it might be better known nationally as the Michael Moore Film Fest, as he is the cofounder of the festival. He's a native Michigan guy with a summer cottage in the area, and though many locals here don't approve of his politics, they sure love what he's done with the film festival. His big score this year was getting fellow native Michigander Madonna to show up and show off her new documentary, but it was sold out weeks ago and I didn't have much interest in seeing it. Anyway, it's been one of the highlights of my summer each of the last few years, and I was excited to go again! The first film I saw today was the docudrama "Flash of Genius," starring Greg Kinnear, by first time director Marc Abraham. Kinnear plays engineering professor Bob Kearns, who in the first 10 minutes of the film invents the intermittent windshield wiper. Kearns is convinced he is going to make a boatload of money from Ford Motors, as they tell him they want to use his design in their new cars. Without warning, they say they are no longer interested, but soon after new car models are introduced utilizing his windshield wipers. Kearns becomes obsessed, to the detriment of his health, career, and family, with receiving his proper credit and getting Ford to admit they stole his intermittent wiper idea. This is Kinnear's film to carry, as he is in pretty much every scene. I'll admit, I usually like Kinnear in most films, and I thought he should have received more praise than Arkin or Carell did for his role in "Little Miss Sunshine," but it was a little hard for me to accept him at first as a 1960s or 70's era college professor. I kept waiting for him to make some snarky "Talk Soup" type comment. He's not always likable or rational - he's the kind of guy who turns down the advances of his lovely wife (Lauren Graham, looking great in a nightgown as the mother of his six kids) to go work in his basement on his invention! Graham has a few good lines in the first half of the film, as does Dermont Mulroney, as Kearn's car dealer friend/parnter, but the two almost disappear in the second half of the film. This being a true story, I'm sure the writers were boxed in somewhat, and I'm not sure how much artistic license they took. There are some other notable supporting performances, with Alan Alda appearing too briefly as a lawyer, Mitch Pileggi as a bad-guy Ford honcho, on-screen just a few minutes longer than he was in the latest X-Files flick, and even Daniel Roebuck (Doc Artz! Hi Node 32774 and Room 23 friends!) as a Ford engineer. I had 2 minor complaints. First, the story dragged a little in the middle, when Kearns hits bottom. That is probably due more to the story itself. Secondly, the narrative and title screens never seem to commit to a time frame. At first it seems we're in the 60's, with Kearns inventing the wipers, then we get a "Four Years Later" title card and Kearns has home videotapes in his house and leaves messages on an answering machine. Are we suddenly in the 80's? We aren't told. Overall, the movie was enjoyable. Kinnear mostly wins you over, and the audience really seemed to get into the David vs. Goliath story. I can see the studios trying to build some Oscar buzz for Kinnear's performance, but I feel it's just a very good, as opposed to a great, performance. I'd give the film 4 out of 5 stars. My second film of the day was Bill Maher's sure to be controversial "documentary" "Religulous." This film was directed by Larry Charles ("Borat"), who is also on the board of directors at the Traverse City Film Fest. He came out and introduced the film, saying we were the second audience in the world to see it, after the previous night's showing of the film. Then we immediately got to the flick. Bill Maher does his best Michael Moore or Morgan Spurlock here, as he goes around interviewing various people of faith around the world, pointing out the absurdities of their beliefs. The interviews are interspersed with pop culture clips and Maher's own comments. He spends the first hour or so taking on Christianity, and he starts by examining his own background by interviewing his sister and Jewish mother, who raised him Catholic like his father was. He moves on to interview some easy targets like believers at a truck stop, an African-American "prosperity and riches" preacher who wishes to be addressed as Dr. - even though he has no degree, an ex-gay preacher, the propritor of the Creation Museum, and a Jew for Jesus, among others. After an hour grilling Christians he eventually gets to Mormonism, Scientology, Judiasm, and finally Islam. I've got to be upfront - I'm an evangelical Christian, and I went in this film expecting to be offended to some extent. I was a fan of Maher's Politically Incorrect show when it was on ABC, and though I disagree with his political views more than I agree, I appreciated the fact that he brought some diverse viewpoints and speakers onto mainstream TV. Maher brings up some goods laughs during this film, I'll admit, mostly due to his comebacks, one-liners, and creative media clips. The biggest laughs come from an interview with Senator Mark Pryor from Arkansas, who admits "there's no IQ test to be senator." I also enjoyed Maher's diatribe in London's Hyde Park, where he "preaches" the Gospel of Scientology, and his interview in Amsterdam with the stoned founder of the "Church of Cannabis." But overall this film was a big disappointment. Maher is unable to raise the level of discourse on religion any deeper than what most of use probably went through in the dorm during freshman year of college. He dismisses all of Christianity based on the supernatural events in the Bible, which he says couldn't have happened, and complains that it doesn't present itself the way he personally wants it to. Maher also attempts to mock an actor playing Jesus at a Holy Land theme park in Orlando, but the actor comes off as being much more genuine and caring than Bill ever does. When Christians in the film state that something is a Biblical fact, Maher laughs it off and says they can't back it up. But he then dismisses Jesus Christ as being = Horus, an Egyptian God, which he states as being a fact, even though he doesn't back it up himself. The last half hour of the film, when he veers away from attacking Christianity, seems to drag quite a bit. Maher does interview a few people that seem to carry some intellectual weight, such as Dr. Francis Collins, author of the Human Genome project, but those interviews are extremely brief and heavily edited. Most of the politicians he shows in clips are Republicans (Bush, McCain), though he doesn't mention Obama's faith and the fact that Sen. Pryor, who doubts evolution, is a Democrat. The kicker is the ending. (MAJOR SPOILER - I guess): After 90 minutes of interviews, Bill states that all religion is evil and must be destroyed for the good of humankind. He comes to this conclusion based on the Koran's and the Bible's predictions of destruction of the world at the "end times" and feels that these religions want the world to be destroyed because God or Allah has ordained it. Bill states, without irony, that the only certainty anyone can have in life is doubt, and that anyone that claims to have certainty over the afterlife is fooling themselves and others. (He states this with some certainty!). While extremely "subtle" images play on the screen (nuclear explosions, war in Iraq, suicide bombers, etc..), Bill continues this long sermon against religion with the passion of a fire and brimstone preacher. I wasn't sure if his venom was intentional or not, but he comes off as being no different from those he mocks in the film. The ending is especially jarring as the build-up necessary for that type of extreme statement never seems to be existant beforehand. I think this film may play well to the audiences that want to hear it. There are some good chuckles in the first 2/3 of the film, and if you're anti-religion you might enjoy the message. I saw this with a friend who is opposed to religion and she liked the film much more than I did. I think Maher might be looking for controversy to help sell this film, and I hope the Christian community won't take his bait. I'm still surprised at his venom at the end - it seemed rather out of place for a film that previously had a mostly lighter tone. Director Larry Charles did a Q&A after the film, which I missed, but I sure wish I could have stayed for the potential fireworks. I'd give the film 2 out of 5 stars. TheBigE (not a plant - I was a big contributor to the 10000 post Lost TB last year, and I live in Michigan, for crying out loud!)
RELIGULOUS will likely play at this September's Toronto Film Festival, so you can expect to hear much more on this one in a few weeks. Prepare for rancor.
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Aug. 4, 2008, 4:17 p.m. CST
by wontyouletmeknow.
Aug. 4, 2008, 4:17 p.m. CST
by wontyouletmeknow.
Aug. 4, 2008, 4:17 p.m. CST
Sorry Guys.
by wontyouletmeknow.
It's just...yah...the first time I've ever gotten a first.
The major spoiler in the review reminded me of a signature quote I saw somewhere that I liked: "Militant agnostic. I don't know, and neither do you."
Aug. 4, 2008, 4:25 p.m. CST
Wow! A hollywood liberal doesn't like Christianity!
by greyspecter
Hold on, I have to call CNN. Fox News passed on the story.
Aug. 4, 2008, 4:26 p.m. CST
Go Wolverines!
by theredtoad
that is all.
Aug. 4, 2008, 4:27 p.m. CST
also...good to see ya back BigE. Us Losties miss ya!
by theredtoad
Aug. 4, 2008, 4:28 p.m. CST
by JoeSixPack
Don't worry about the "first" haters. Eff 'em.
Aug. 4, 2008, 4:46 p.m. CST
Thanks redtoad
by theBigE
I'll be back in the Lost Universe soon. Keep it going over there, will ya!
Aug. 4, 2008, 4:51 p.m. CST
Religion ....
by Willips Brighton
... the last stumbling block for halfass liberals who can't get over the guilt. I meet so many supposed anti-establishment lefties who are still devoted to the idea of a "spirit in the sky" who rules us all. Name me one positive thing on Earth that could not exist without religion? You go, Bill Maher.
Aug. 4, 2008, 4:53 p.m. CST
As the ridiculous polarized TB is inevitable...
by Darwyn
I'll just preempt everyone by saying, as an athiest and someone who would come off sounding liberal despite not placing myself on that continuum, I have to admit that I don't think this serves any purpose. I am a minority in the athiest community that does not like Christopher Hitchens crusade, nor Dawkin's "righteous" anti-religion bashing. Because look, what it boils down to is that their positions are almost as dogmatic as anyone's. They go around making the argument that almost the entire world is irrational when it comes to religion. Well if everyone is irrational, perhaps you have to take another look at human nature and reinterpret what makes people tick. There view is that we have free will and the ability for rationale, standards by which much of the world lets them down, and therefore basis for their righteous anger at religious people who are not living up to their potential. But again, if almost the whole population of the world seems to exist in some sort of mass delusion, it suggests free will and rationality aren't the primary lenses to see humanity through, which implicates that perhaps their views about people are wrong and just as culturally informed and dogmatic as anyone's. As I said, I am an athiest, but on the same hand I have tried to UNDERSTAND the nature of religion and human nature rather than mock. Religion has served a vital purpose in the past, one that arguably needs some serious updating and overhauling. As a system of social organization and identity synchronization as well as a provider of order, security and control, simply mocking religion is no more enlightened than those they call ignorant. If you want to improve the situation, promote understanding, human self-awareness and new ways of conceptualizing the world, don't just deconstruct - do you really want to take away people's framework for understanding the world, their psychic crutch? Fine, than what do you propose in it's place - liberalism? It's only slightly more developed than conservatism, and just as dogmatic.
Aug. 4, 2008, 5:06 p.m. CST
Go Bill Maher go!
by robertkent.net
I'm a Christian, but I think different aspects of religion deserve to be made fun of now and again. And I love Bill Maher's show. Sometimes I find I couldn't disagree with him more, but you have to love that he's willing to put his views out there, even the unpopular ones, and willing to discuss them. America could use more frank, open, honest discussion surrounding hotbed topics--the sort of discussion I enjoy watching on Real Time. I hope this movie packs some provacative insight, but even if it doesn't, I'm sure it will be funny. I'm also sure that clips of it will be on youtube until the end of days. I am concerned about the description of the ending rant. I hate when documentaries boil down to a last minute speech by the narrator. I hope the film makes an argument on its own terms without requiring a last minute summary to make up for a lack of substanence.
Aug. 4, 2008, 5:06 p.m. CST
Darwyn - Very well said
by spud mcspud
As someone who went through a phase of extremely evangelical Christianity in my teens and early twenties, and hit my thirties with some healthy agnosticism to temper my faith, I have to say - I don't think religion is the problem, it's fundamentalism and dogma that is the problem. Those whose faith makes them the most active in their communities seem to be the ones who aren't 100% sure of their faith - or who are 100%, but don't try to force it on others. In my experience, it's the ones who ARE absolutely certain of their faith with no room for doubt whatsoever who cause the trouble - usually by adhering way more strictly to the "judging others" parts of their faith.<P> It's the same as saying (as we do in the UK) that football or violent video games are the cause of violent crime in the modern age. They're not the cause - human nature is the cause. Religion, football, violoent video games, your country's customs - they are the causes that people disagree over in order to justify starting some shit. Banning religion / football / violent video games / cultural differences won't stop viole nce or any of the other more negative aspects of the human condition - and it's this simple truth that I think the foaming-at-the-mouth militant atheist fundamentalists (yep, we're looking at YOU, Dawkins and Maher) seem to miss every time. However, Darwyn, you seem to have hit it squarely on the nose. Now all we need is for you to make the movie Maher wishes he could have and straighten this whole thing out.<P> Now I'm going to kick back and kick Graham Kendrick's ass for writing "Shine Jesus Shine", thus introducing the concept of 'warm and fuzzy' to the emotional composition of the modern Christian...
Aug. 4, 2008, 5:07 p.m. CST
by greyspecter
umm, right, colon, because it's not like most films, tv shows, and documentaries don't villify corporations as being the ultimate evil. I've never even heard of Haliburton and Enron, or Big Tabacco and Big Oil. What am I thinking?
Aug. 4, 2008, 5:20 p.m. CST
by chipps
Yeah i pretty much agree. I'm a practicing catholic, but i have no problem admitting the absurdity of religion. That is why they call it faith. Faith is belief in absence of knowledge. Any wacko christian that attempts to 'prove' the existence of god is off the charts. Additionally i (and most chatholics) have no problem admitting the past wrongs of the church. The way i see it (and largly dawson) is that these wrongs boil down to intolerance. (he also thinks religion has been disproved and is illogical, but that is not a reason to ban it, intolerance is). Well the chatholic church has at various times tried to ban other religions/ denominations and look what people think about that. Religious tolerance is a cornerstone of every western democracy. Why can't some of these atheists be tolerant of other beliefs. If they don't like leaders acting on religious conscience, don't vote for them. If enough people agree they won't get elected. That is how democracy works.
Aug. 4, 2008, 5:23 p.m. CST
Religion can't be evil
by Funketeer
Evil is a concept reserved for human beings. Atheists who blame a concept of philosophy for all the world's ills are just as bad as the religious nuts who blame their actions or their situations on whatever god they worship. I've never understood why some Atheists feel the need to spend time and energy trying to disprove something. If you don't believe in God, then don't but why waste your precious time trying to convince other people to feel the same way?
Aug. 4, 2008, 5:48 p.m. CST
Can't wait for Religulous.
by Lucasblows
It sounds similar to ground covered in the book- God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher Hitchens. Which is a fantastic book which does, in fact, back up that religion is fucking evil.
Aug. 4, 2008, 5:52 p.m. CST
by Lucasblows
I understand your point. But, religion also wastes a vast amount of time trying to convert others. And not just non-believers, but those who don't believe in the same invisible man as they do.
Aug. 4, 2008, 5:55 p.m. CST
There are two issues here
by greyspecter
One is the veracity of religion at all, and the other is the particular stance of liberals who dominate the mainstream media toward the concept of religion. All I'm saying is that people like Maher are predisposed to rejecting the notion of God, Creationism, the Quran, etc. It can't be objective. So yeah, get your views reinforced, but admit that it's biased to begin with.<p> And Lucasblows, how do you define "evil"?
Aug. 4, 2008, 6:05 p.m. CST
Well, the only religious FACT we have is uncertainty.
by IndustryKiller!
That is a fact. A completely inarguable F-A-C-T. As factual as the computer I type on or the eyes you read this with. Belief is fine, but dogmatic belief isn't based on facts. That's just plain inarguable.
Aug. 4, 2008, 6:05 p.m. CST
A concept cannot be evil...
by spud mcspud
...only the motives behind it.<P> Very basic example: You have your finger on a trigger that will release a bomb that will destroy millions of people trapped on a secure island. You trigger the bomb. They all die.<P> This was an EVIL act if your motives were to just kill millions in the name of your religion / political stance / foreign policy / furtherance of murky political motives.<P> This was a GOOD act if all these people were carrying an extremely virulent Ebola x1,000,000 that could wipe out mankind, and you had to wipe them out to stop the disease from spreading like wildfire.<P> The act itself either kills for no sensible reason, or becomes the act that saves the human race - but all because of the motives behind it. The concept is obviously a lot more complex, but that's my view of it - religion is not intrinsically evil, but if someone uses religion as a tool to further their evil motives - the outcome CAN be evil.<P> Besides, most religions teach the Golden rule - "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - as the backbone of their philosophy. You find the less pure tenets of most faiths come in when people add stuff to those religions to further their own ends, whatever they may be. But religion, as and of itself, is not evil.
Aug. 4, 2008, 6:07 p.m. CST
Here's one definition:
by Lucasblows
Evil: A mind controlling institution which attempts to cover up the molestation of children yet tries to enforce it's "values" upon others.
Aug. 4, 2008, 6:14 p.m. CST
But, seriously everyone SHOULD believe what they want to believe
by Lucasblows
...but if this was a documentary about Jesus' life, nobody would be up in arms about it. But, because it actually suggests "Hey, maybe this is all bullshit," people complain and get offended.
Aug. 4, 2008, 6:24 p.m. CST
by spud mcspud
Hey, if this movie had any balls whatsoever, it would go after Islam PROPERLY. Maybe then all this stuff about what happened with Christianity, oh I dunno, 400 years ago (isn't that when the Inquisition was, roughly?) could finally be ignored in favour of the fact that in many Islam-governed countries, practices such as stoning, beheading, severing of limbs, the limiting of basic human rights for women etc are carried out widespread and daily, yet people like Bill Maher lack the courage ot REALLY go after them. He does a half-assed skit taking some bikini chick to a burqa store - whoa! Scary! Try taking that same chick to an Islamic country, see if you'll get her back in one piece.<P> This movie looks edgy, but - as per usual - is just some old agitprop picking on a safe subject to place his prejudices on. Let's see him go to Saudi Arabia and tell the governments there that they're wrong about their religion - then see him try to get out of there alive...
Aug. 4, 2008, 6:34 p.m. CST
Spud Mcspud
by Lucasblows
That was why I mentioned reading the Hitchens book which clearly outlines everything you just mentioned and attacks every religion, not just Catholic. For anyone really curious and open minded enough to read a book about Atheist ideas, it is an excellent book. Bill's movie is obviously meant to be more humorous than a true documentary. I also have not seen it and just have this review to go by, so I truly do not know what it contains. But I am still looking forward to it.
Aug. 4, 2008, 6:42 p.m. CST
Evangelical Christian-- Must be from Grand Rapids.
by ZeroCorpse
The wacky armpit of my great state. <p> Oh-- And Religion can not only be evil, I am convinced it is the source (or perhaps just a symptom) of ALL evil. <p> Discuss.
Aug. 4, 2008, 6:47 p.m. CST
Lucasblows, my final thought
by greyspecter
If you're truly open-minded and interested in gaining a perspective on both sides, let me politely ask you to read the New Testament. Just read it once, start to finish, or if that's too much to ask, the 4 Gospels. See what Christ actually preached. Disregard all the past atrocities and tragedies perpetrated in His name. The issue isn't how well His example has been followed, but rather what that exmaple really was. So just read the Gospel and then you may have a better understanding of what true Christians believe. If you'd like to continue this discussion, post and ask for my email, I'll give it. Thanks, and God bless.
Aug. 4, 2008, 6:54 p.m. CST
I have often thought
by chipps
that much that is distasteful is either hard to outlaw (just being a prick) or easy to get away with (murder is not that to get away with) In fact when you think about distasteful behavior can be very rewarding: stalin, genghis kahn, there is a long list. It is true that religion can push people to, or allow them to justify wrong doing, but people rarely look at the opposite. In an environment where there is no god, and no temporal judgment, many people would be more inclined to act selfishly. Religion, even if it is all cock and bull, certainly can be an agent for good. and while it is absurd as a concept, i really do think if you read the god delusion, he does argue in circles and uses inconsistent examples.
Aug. 4, 2008, 6:54 p.m. CST
by Lucasblows
I don't need to read it. I know it. I was raised Catholic so I have that perspective. You would say "I have lost my way" and I would say "I opened my eyes." We disagree. It's OK.
Aug. 4, 2008, 6:56 p.m. CST
Could be from Holland too
by Maxer
At least Muskegon and Traverse City save west Michigan. And I want Religulous to be funny, but I just can't see it doing or saying anything new, or convincing anyone to stop practicing religion. Just preaching to its own choir.
Aug. 4, 2008, 7:10 p.m. CST
by HoboCode
Good reviews man!
Aug. 4, 2008, 7:16 p.m. CST
Hitchens and Dawkins are pussies.
by HoboCode
Read The End of Faith by Sam Harris. Now there is a guy with some balls.
Aug. 4, 2008, 7:16 p.m. CST
by HoboCode
Go State!
Aug. 4, 2008, 7:29 p.m. CST
by Funketeer
Religion doesn't try to convert, people do. A church didn't cover up sexual molestation by it's members, people did. Religion is an abstract and can not be blamed for the evils done by individuals in its name.
Aug. 4, 2008, 7:31 p.m. CST
That's if you believe religion isn't man made...
by Lucasblows
...which I do.
Aug. 4, 2008, 7:47 p.m. CST
So where's the Madonna doc review??
by jefflebowski
I was in Eastport for the weekend and saw a quick live shot at the theater on the pathetic Traverse City news. Wish I had known about the film-fest. By the way, Moore looks like pretty shabby right now. I guess he fell off the "Get Healthy" wagon after Sicko. PS Wolverines suck. Go State!!
Aug. 4, 2008, 7:48 p.m. CST
Politics,religion,race....Star Wars
by liljuniorbrown
Some things just can't be discussed without passionate arguments. I would be catagorized as "religous", but i've never preached to anyone, i've never passed out snakes to people while there chanting,i've never told anyone they are going to hell and i think that slutty asian chicks with huge boobs are the one true form of happiness in my life. I guess that makes me an idiot. Oh well Bill Maher flipped off the whole world on national tv right after september 11th, so in my book he's just an old Hugh Heffener wannabe with no talent other than to try to pis people off. The kind of kid who got the shit kicked out of him all the way through to college. Good luck Bill.
Aug. 4, 2008, 7:58 p.m. CST
Ford & Those Wipers
by mike904
I remember this now. How did it all turn out?
Aug. 4, 2008, 7:58 p.m. CST
Jesus serves as a pretty good role model when you think about it
by drewlicious
I'm not religious but it seems to me if followed appropriately Christianity can help with a complete and happy lifestyle. At the very least the philosophy is sound, love thy neighbor and all that. I haven't set foot in a church in years, firm believer in God but not so much in church, but the morals sank in from my childhood. I suppose the big problem with religion in general is that it can be twisted into just about anything.
Aug. 4, 2008, 8:26 p.m. CST
by theBigE
I've only read some excerpts from Sam Harris - I guess I wasn't very impressed with what I read from him, or from what I've read from Dawkins. Same old, same old. I haven't read any of Hitchens' work. <p> Go State indeed! <p> Did you see the shout out to you guys up there? I'm hoping to be back in the TB's soon. Namaste!
Aug. 4, 2008, 8:31 p.m. CST
by theBigE
The Madonna show has been sold out for over a month, and I really had no interest in going. If I want to see a 50-year old in hot pants, I can head down to the corner bar. From what I read, the Madonna doc is pretty good but her few breif appearences in the film only distracts from the overall message. Oh, and Mike Moore just fawned over her mercilessly before and after the show. <p> Go State!
Aug. 4, 2008, 8:57 p.m. CST
Shout out.
by HoboCode
Yeah I saw it. Awesome man. Thanks. Harris is much more arrogant and rigid in his atheism than Dawkins but more digestable than Hitchens whose writing is dryer than the Sahara.
Aug. 4, 2008, 9:43 p.m. CST
someone should waterboard christopher hitchens...
by chipps
oh wait, they did. good-o
Aug. 4, 2008, 9:57 p.m. CST
I Demand My First Amendment Right
by Guy Gaduois
to not be offended! <p> Wait, that's not in the Constitution? Or the Bill of Rights? Are you sure? Yup, it's not there. Go pound sand, Maher - if you've got the right to be consistently unfunny, I obviously do not have the right to be 'unoffended'. The question is, who will be the first to kill for this non-existent, unassailably absent right?
Aug. 4, 2008, 9:58 p.m. CST
Maher is enlightened, you idiots
by Sir Loin
Let's face it, he's more qualified to tell you what to think than thousands of years' worth of knowledge passed down, plus he's better at making fun of said knowledge. Watch it and feel superior for awhile, then realize you've been suckered out of $10. hahaha!!!
Aug. 4, 2008, 10:42 p.m. CST
by Funketeer
It doesn't matter if it's man made or not. People make decisions. What those decisions are based on does not absolve or condemn the person making them. Just because a religion calls for it's followers to kill, doesn't mean people have to follow.
Aug. 4, 2008, 10:49 p.m. CST
We want Madonna!
by thebearovingian
No, we demand it!
Aug. 4, 2008, 10:51 p.m. CST
the funny thing is...
by sidburnd1
everyone has a religion, even atheists like mahr.
Aug. 4, 2008, 11:02 p.m. CST
by LostMythos
wow, so many of you believers have no sense of history - what is the difference between jesus and zeus? Do you know how many versions of the bible there were before the current one? it is 2008, there is water on Mars and still people actually believe this childish stuff? I really do not think you actually think before you believe. All religion is for children who want to follow. there is no god.. it is in us and it is love, not some book of rules for infants to follow. Good job Bill Maher!!! Grow up people, get a mind and listen to some Bill Hicks.....
Aug. 4, 2008, 11:04 p.m. CST
ok smartass...
by chipps
how many?
Aug. 4, 2008, 11:14 p.m. CST
Thanks for sharing your beliefs, LostMythos
by greyspecter
It takes faith to believe in God. It takes faith not to believe in God, since there is no incontrovertial evidence to prove His existence or non-existence. <p> As for your ironically hilarious points on history, it has been documented from sources like the Dead Sea Scrolls, along with the thousands of copies dating from around 60 years after the New Testament was written, that the accuracy of the Bible is around 95%, with most of the errors involving punctuation and spelling. Perhaps you can spell out the similarities between Jesus and Zeus. One was "king" of the gods because he killed his father Cronus by getting Cronus to swallow a stone instead of him (Zeus). Zeus loved to screw mortal women and acted more like a drunken frat boy than the god of thunder. And this equates to Jesus how?
Aug. 4, 2008, 11:16 p.m. CST
ask god
by LostMythos
there are currently more than 50 versions in english and throughout history there have been more than 400... do you know why the church made it so priests can not marry? so the church keeps their land, too many were leaving it to their families... how many indulgences have you paid for recently... wake up! when the aliens come this will all seem so silly...
Aug. 4, 2008, 11:18 p.m. CST
by Lucasblows
That's where you are mistaken. Certain sects of certain religions call for you to make sacrifices such as human life and also they ask that you go out and convert others. They teach you these things are your duty. You are taught from childhood, they are encouraged by religious parents and by adulthood, you are brainwashed and are brainwashing your child. The "idea" of religion bands people together differently than any other man concocted idea. Because it is a belief, and beliefs don't give way to reason, logic or facts. Try to reason with a man who claims he's doing "God's will." It's literally impossible because he believes he's acting for a higher purpose. That is how religion is evil.
Aug. 4, 2008, 11:18 p.m. CST
by chipps
Aug. 4, 2008, 11:19 p.m. CST
jesus was a jew
by LostMythos
jesus is like zeus because they are both fake idols created in order to control the silly people who bow down to them... are you rebuilding the temple of david as we speak!
Aug. 4, 2008, 11:35 p.m. CST
I wish people would study the life of Jesus...
by zacdilone
...instead of the lives of his idiot followers. I would agree that religion is evil. But I think faith in Jesus is just fine.
Aug. 4, 2008, 11:35 p.m. CST
And yes...
by zacdilone
...I'm from Grand Rapids.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:02 a.m. CST
While I thit's over the top to say that religion is inherently e
by Mister Pink
..I still think it's perfectly fair to say that it's inherently irrational, primativistic and intellectually limiting as well as lacking the slightest bit evidentiary justification. There aren't any invisible magic fairies in the sky, and note to the person who wrote this review -- supernatural miracles actually ARE impossible. Sorry to disappoint you, but there it is.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:06 a.m. CST
Man, I butchered that subject line.
by Mister Pink
Sorry about that.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:26 a.m. CST
A couple things...
by DarthCorleone
1) To the person above who asks that I just read the New Testament or at least the Gospels - I have read them - both in my naive youth and my more discerning adulthood. I paid particular attention to that Jesus guy, and frankly I found his behavior and attitude as a teacher unnecessarily harsh and condescending.<br><br> 2) Why, it is asked, do non-believers feel the need to challenge the believers? Well, I find proselytizing on both sides to be obnoxious, but if the topic is raised, then I'm going to make my thoughts known. I'm not going to push, because change in that arena is glacial, but I do feel that in general the human civilization is becoming more secular for the better. I think it's for the better because I think that the general advancement of the human race is dependent upon reason, science, truth, and avoidance of superstition. I'm sorry, but religion runs contrary to all those things. The notion that humanity needs that crutch is a fallacy. It only seems that way because the indoctrination runs so deep.
Aug. 5, 2008, 1:40 a.m. CST
Flash of Madge's 'gina!
by thebearovingian
It's already been well documented.<p>All those people who believe in a higher power (i.e. God) are idiots, morons, sheeple, deluded, lemmings, etc? Right. I think a huge majority of the human population believes and yet some of you are willing to say that they are all dumb, unenlightened stooges? And you few are the enlightened ones who live on the higher plane of reality and look down your noses at the stupid masses. Wow, what balls you have to be that arrogant and condescending! Fucking prideful elitists.
Aug. 5, 2008, 2:49 a.m. CST
Politically Incorrect
by Napoleon Park
was a great show on Comedy Central - ABC apparently bought it so they could ruin it. I'm not sure what their profit motive was in that other than getting rid of competition.<p>Maher doing an anti-religion movie? Apparently he should either learn how to structure an argument or at least look up the term "preaching to the converted."
Here is the thing ...if I want to exercise my doubt I read Ludwig Feuerbach and thoughts of other people who spent quite some time on thinking about God's non-existence. For me there's no faith without doubt. ...IMO it's important to explore all the reasoning for God's non-existence if I want to find out about my faith. Just ...as it would be logical for me to read about theological ideas and concepts if I decide to be certain of God's non-existence. Maher & Co don't seem to do that. Well ...that's their problem. The film sounds quite funny as well as very superficial and I'll go see it out of curiosity and to see what's in for me ...
Aug. 5, 2008, 5:05 a.m. CST
by spud mcspud
I love that - you say "get a mind" and then tell us all to go listen to Maher and Bill Hicks...<P> So you're still a follower, you just follow the teachings of Bill Maher and Bill Hicks (who, by the way, had a great deal of respect for the teachings of Jesus, just not the church that followed him) rather than follow the teachings of Jesus. You're as much a sheep as the believers you denigrate, you just listen to a different gospel - the Gospel of the Sarcastic Nihilist. Go you.
Aug. 5, 2008, 5:06 a.m. CST
Isn't it fun mocking other peoples inadequacies!!
by JackRabbitSlim
Makes me feel so much better about myself. "Now THERE'S that inflated sense of self-esteem"
Aug. 5, 2008, 5:15 a.m. CST
by spud mcspud
The man you speak of not being able to reason with because he is a believer - it's not the belief warping the man, it's how the man applies this belief to his believer. Which is why some people use their faith to justify them doing good things (see all those who are raising money to build schoolhouses in underdeveloped countries, for example) and some people use it to justify blasting Palestinian children to Hell (several American evangelists use their money partly to fund the Israeli war machine, as they believe the utter destruction of Israel will hasten the Second Coming), but the faith is exactly the same - it's the motives of the people themselves that uses or abuses that faith. Like it or not, if we were to wipe all religion off the face of the earth, all the evils committed in the name of religion would be committed in the name of something else. You can't blame a concept for the actions of manifest human nature. Religion is neither good nor evil - it is an idea to be invested in. It's a much more complex issue than just "all religion is evil"...
Aug. 5, 2008, 5:18 a.m. CST
Mister Pink
by spud mcspud
Yeah - you've been all over the world and personally ivestigated, then personally disproven, each and every claim to a miracle or paranormal hapenning EVER. I assume that's why you can speak so authoritatively on the fact that there are NO miracles.<P> Why is it in discussions like this, the non-believers eventually sound more fundamentalist than the believers, who for the most part believe in live and let live?
Aug. 5, 2008, 5:23 a.m. CST
Sir Loin
by spud mcspud
How is Bill Maher better qualified than the rest of us to know about these things? He's a stand-up and TV presenter! Is the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything only given to TV employees, or whatever?
Aug. 5, 2008, 5:25 a.m. CST
"it's how the man applies this belief to his believer"
by spud mcspud
"it's how the man applies this belief to his believer" should say "it's how the man applies this belief to his BEHAVIOUR". I may go to Hell for that mistake, but probably won't...
Aug. 5, 2008, 6:55 a.m. CST
Maher and his love of Scarecrows
by stvnhthr
Bill Maher seems like a smart guy, but I always was confused why he spent so much time making straw men attacks. He seldom gets his facts rights so it is frustrating to watch him rant and rave against a half truth. Oh well, those who love to heap venom on organized religon should have a fun old time with a whole movie of his weak logic. Maybe if he was a little braver Bill would open a discussion wiht a real theological mind rather than looking for the easy pickings.
Aug. 5, 2008, 6:59 a.m. CST
I'm a Christian
by kevinwillis.net
And I'm not remotely offended by Religulous. He made a movie. Good for him. <br><Br> Of course, I was an atheist for most of my life, so I do have some sympathy in regards to where he's coming from.
Aug. 5, 2008, 7:08 a.m. CST
There is no "god"...
by Kid Z
...and no "love" either, for that matter.
Aug. 5, 2008, 8:57 a.m. CST
"accuracy of the Bible is around 95%"
by HoboCode
Get real.
Aug. 5, 2008, 9:28 a.m. CST
I believe the 95% stat...
by zacdilone
...is meant to represent the accuracy of transmission, not message. In other words, 95% of the biblical text is accurate to the original text (unlike the whole "game of telephone" theory that people love to throw around without merit). So there is only a 5% variance in the text we have today from what it originally was. I don't think that person was trying to argue that the Bible is 95% factual.
Aug. 5, 2008, 9:30 a.m. CST
Jesus was harsh and condescending?
by zacdilone
Sure, to the hypocrites of his day. What's so bad about that? But to women, the underprivileged, the oppressed, and the hurting he was undeniably a champion.
Aug. 5, 2008, 9:44 a.m. CST
by Lucasblows
"Religion is not evil, people are... blah, blah blah." Point is, religion is man made. It was created to control the populace in primitive times. I'd like to think that we are slowly evolving away from the absurd thought that we have a great big invisible man in the sky ready to pass judgement on us and send us to the room of fire when we're bad. I guess not. Like I said earlier. Believe what you wish. If believing God comforts you that we all will someday die, that's great.
Aug. 5, 2008, 9:48 a.m. CST
.....Mahers owned by Scheuer........
by redhankyspanky
It was classic when Micheal Scheuer owned Mahers little bitch ass, on Americans dying for Israel. <p> Fuck Bill Maher, and his lame ass hate movie. What a dickless turd that schill is. His fans too, for that matter. Fucking ignorant sheeple.
Aug. 5, 2008, 9:51 a.m. CST
Ignorant "sheeple"...
by Lucasblows
...are those people all speaking in unison every Sunday as they sit, stand, kneel upon command.
I am always amazed at how many people devote their entire lives to a mythological figure from an old book written by people who never met the man in a time when people believed the Earth to be flat. In the year 300 or so, Earthlings didn't know what a germ or an atom was. They had no knowledge of Dinosaurs that have been extinct for 65 million years. They hadn't discovered electricity. They believed that the sun and the stars revolved around the earth. The people of that era manufactured answers for the questions that overwhelmed them. There is no historical record for Jesus other than the passages in the New Testament. The Romans have no record of Jesus or a crucifixion (and the Romans kept great records). Why would 21st century earthlings work backwards from this old book? This is a book that crucifies homosexuals, subjugates women and is one of the most violent books ever written. (Just read Leviticus or Exodus to see the naughty parts.) The religious nuts have always stifled progress in the world. We non-theists shouldn't have to tolerate the encroachment of religion into our secular government. Keep thy religion to thyself.
Aug. 5, 2008, 10:31 a.m. CST
Sounds disappointing, and I'm a stone-cold atheist.
by samsquanch
Sounds like desperate mockery to me. I think we're all past just making fun of each other, aren't we? I think any worthwhile adult understands that tolerance is the way to understanding, and making things better for all of us, right? The only thing I can think of to possibly defend this movie is the fact that there aren't any real atheist movies out there. Fox Mulder is an atheist, or he was, anyway, while the X-Files were on TV, though the word 'atheist' was never uttered in the 9 years that show ran. <p> It's too bad that we finally get an avowedly atheist movie, and it sounds smarmy and self-important. Shit.
Aug. 5, 2008, 10:36 a.m. CST
I always wonder why religious people get so mad
by samsquanch
Why is it that the atheists and agnostics are the ones that inspire so much righteous, biblical wrath? If anything, we should be dismissed, even pitied. I respect whatever people believe, and I try not to judge anyone, it takes diff'rent strokes, after all, but MAN, whenever I say something like, for example: <p> " I think that if you happened to be born in an arab country you'd probably be muslim, if you happened to be born in Israel you'd probably be Jewish..." <p> People get that vein popping in their forehead and they want to smite me. What the hell is wrong with that? Also, if I say something like: <p> "I think that life is a completely random event in the cosmos and that when we die our consciousness ceases to exist" <p> They fully expect and want a lightning bolt to strike me down dead. What the hell? If you believe in an afterlife, that's fucking great for you. I'm jealous. Imagine an atheist punching out a Christian because the Christian said "hey buddy! let's hang out in heaven if I don't see you again!" I still expect religious people to either laugh at me or look at me like I'm a cancer patient when I tell them I'm atheist, but instead, they want to beat me up. Let me ask you this: If you believe, I mean reaaally believe that you're going to heaven, and I'm probably going to hell, to BURN FOR ALL ETERNITY, why THE FUCK do you care if I don't?
Aug. 5, 2008, 10:42 a.m. CST
samsquach you're committing the same sin as many Christians
by zacdilone
That's a pretty huge generalization you're making there. Every Christian wants you smitten/smote/whatever? I don't think so. Every movement has its militant wing. Militant Christians do act like atheists are the enemy, but they do not represent the whole. Just like Bill Maher doesn't represent the whole of atheism with his "we must destroy all religion" schtick.
Aug. 5, 2008, 10:43 a.m. CST
by zacdilone
I'm a Christian and I agree with you. Thank goodness what you describe is far from Christianity really is. Thanks for agreeing with me!
Aug. 5, 2008, 10:46 a.m. CST
by HoboCode
because it's part of their "belief," their duty, to save as many as us heathens as they can. As far as the angry part I can't tel lyou. their own insecurities about their faith probably plays a role.
Aug. 5, 2008, 10:51 a.m. CST
by HoboCode
Yeah that is one thing I can't stand about Mahr. He has an unwavering love of Israel and refuses to accept any opinion that is critical of our support of Israel.
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:04 a.m. CST
No proof of Jesus
by ZeroCorpse
Not one shred of evidence exists outside of the Bible- a flawed document to be sure- that Jesus ever existed. Not One Shred. <p> He's in no historical texts from the time, no government texts of the time, no birth records, no death records. . . There's no mention of him in any way whatsoever outside of the religion that claims he existed and, by the way, also claims he was a demigod. <p> You'd think that people would write about a controversial guy who raises the dead, walks on water, cures lepers, heals the blind, preaches constantly, and who is subsequently arrested, crucified, and entombed. You'd think that if this same fellow were suspected of coming out of that tomb after he'd been presumed dead, they'd have something to say about him; A note, a mention, a medical inquiry, a record of punishment for the soldier or doctor who "verified" his death, a military note of award or commendation for the guys that subdued this "demigod", a brag, a boast, a "hey, did you hear who they crucified last week?" story. ANYTHING!!! <p> Instead, there's nothing. Not one record. Not one note. Not one private citizen wrote about it in their diary. Not one person made a note of it in public records. NOBODY ever heard of, saw, met, or witnessed the death of Jesus of Nazareth, except those people who declared themselves "Apostles". Don't you think that's a bit strange? NOT ONE WORD ABOUT JESUS' EXISTENCE HAS BEEN FOUND OUTSIDE OF THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE.<p> Look it up. Go ahead. The only outside-the-Bible mention was discovered to be be a forgery. Otherwise, nothing has been discovered-- not by Christians or secular anthropologists-- for over 2000 years. <p> Saul (Paul) of Tarsus wrote of Jesus as a parable. Nothing more. When the tale of Jesus was first written, it was some thirty to fifty years AFTER his supposed resurrection; That's the first time in history his name was ever mentioned. The story of Jesus- according to Saul himself- was not meant to be in the real world, but in the world of parables, where fantastic things happen. It was not told as history, but as tale of fantasy. <p> Deists who founded America (like Thomas Jefferson) did NOT believe the Christian Bible. In the absence of any scientific understanding of the origins of the universe and our own species, they believed in an uninvolved creator that simply made the universe-- and humanity-- and then disappeared, never to be involved again. Jefferson himself mocked the supposed divinity of Jesus. He even cut up the Bible into pieces and glued it back together to make a Bible without all the supernatural elements, which he thought were ridiculous and improbable. (The Jefferson Bible. Look it up.) <p> So sorry, people: There was never a Jesus Christ. He's part of Saul's fairy tale, written to inspire people and NOT intended to be taken literally. <p> Of course, it goes without saying that there's no God/Jehovah either. Of course, children are taught by adults to believe in the impossible from the moment they're born; First it's Santa Claus, then the Easter Bunny, then the Tooth Fairy. You're mentally conditioned by your parents to trust things on faith alone, in hopes of some sort of reward. When they start shoving Jesus down your maw, you slurp it up because your fragile psyche needs at least ONE of these tales told by your parents to be real, and because by that time it's too late. You've been indoctrinated and the NEED to believe is so strong that you can't shake it. <p> Call it faith if you want. I call it brainwashing. <p> Frankly, I think it should be illegal (child abuse) for parents to introduce religion to their children until they're in their teens. At that point, give them the options, tell them all the tales, and let them make up their own mind. I'm sure you'll see a lot fewer people becoming Christians, Muslims, Jews, Shintoists, Hindus, or following any other religion based on falsehoods and faith. <p> The worst part of it? About 90% of Christians have NEVER even read the Bible cover-to-cover. They only believe based on what they're TOLD by their pastor, their parents, the assholes who exploit their faith (Dobson, TD Jakes, etc.) and their fellow Christians. But open up and read the ENTIRE Bible?!?! Why should they be bothered to do that (or work to comprehend it) when they can just be told the "good parts" by someone who deigns to "know God" better than they do? <p> It's a good thing science doesn't work that way. Scientists actually *read* their books, and if they don't agree with the hypothesis within, they work to find the RIGHT hypothesis instead of just passing off the inaccurate one for thousands of years. <p> I encourage all Christians with an open mind (that may be an oxymoron, I know) to listen to Julia Sweeney's "Letting Go of God" -- It's a story about a Julia's personal experience with her faith. She was devoutly religious, but wanted to delve deeper into her beliefs. When she did, what she found was that it was more of a comfort food than a nutritional diet of information. It's humorous, respectful of religion, and explains why a person who believes in God with her whole heart, who was raised to love God and cherish her religion, would eventually turn to atheism. <p> I know you won't listen to it, though. The first requirement of religion is to close your mind to other points of view. Your cult is the only way, and you're not even ALLOWED to listen to other points of view objectively. To do so would bring scorn upon you from the other members of your faith. (She touches on this, too... Not that you'll ever know.) <p> Good luck, religion. You'll be extinct some day. I wish it would be within my lifetime, but I suspect it will take another 150 years before humanity finally gives up its security blanket.<p> Yes, Jesus is your woobie. Face it. Let it go.
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:04 a.m. CST
by samsquanch
Didn't make the generalization you speak of. I was speaking from personal experience. At no point did I imply that "Every Christian" was like that.
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:19 a.m. CST
by Lucasblows
The religious services might differ, but the overall premise remains. A bunch of people worshiping an empty sky. Most people universally agree Scientology is crazy. But it isn't any crazier than all the other religions. A Sci-Fi story taken for fact.
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:22 a.m. CST
As for "faith"
by Lucasblows
Faith is just another way of saying "I have no facts whatsoever to back up something I believe to be true."
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:27 a.m. CST
thank you, zerocorpse, for showing us true tolerance
by greyspecter
actually, both Josephus and Tacitus, neither of whom were Christians, refer to Jesus. Most atheist scholars concede that a man named Jesus did exist. Whether he performed miracles and rose from the dead is, naturally, an area of faith, but the man really existed. <p> Also, let me say that equating catholicism with Christianity is erroneous. Protestant pastors are allowed to marry, and while they may commit adultery every once in a while, they don't molest boys. Likewise, not every service is liturgical and involves the worship of saints and Mary. <p> Lastly, returning to the reason for this talkback, (and, incidentally adressing zerocorpse) what rankles me as a Christian is that condencing, mocking attitude that dismisses all believers as being simple-minded, hateful, intolerant bigots. Which is what Maher comes off as, if the reviewer is correct, and what ZeroCorpse and his ilk certainly comes off as. Tell you what: i'll watch religulous if you atheists watch Ben Stein's Expelled, which i don't think was ever reviewed by AICN. way to look at both sides, Harry.
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:30 a.m. CST
How do you really feel ZeroCorpse?
by HoboCode
Come on. Don't hold back. LOL.
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:33 a.m. CST
Jesus is really Caesarian, son of Julius Caesar.
by HoboCode
That's what Secret Ruler ofd the World taught me. That's right. Christ was Pollo's son.
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:51 a.m. CST
What does it matter, you're all screwed when Xenu comes back
by drewlicious
Want to take free stress test?
Aug. 5, 2008, noon CST
But Grey...
by Novaman5000
The same attitude argument could be leveled against christians. I'm agnostic, despite extensive exposure to christianity (especially catholicism) in many forms, and despite being a good person (if i do say so myself) and respectful of other religions, I've been told several times that I'm going to hell simply because I am not a christian and don't hold those beliefs.<p> There is a patronizing/condescending tone that seems to come to the surface more often than not when a believer is dealing with a non-believer.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:04 p.m. CST
Faith is what you do with it...
by Blue_Demon
You can cut the heads off non-believers, or you can feed the poor in Calcutta. In my opinion, faith is a good thing. Nobody was ever hurt by the Ten Commandments (except for those guys down there where Chuck threw the tablets. XD )
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:13 p.m. CST
Religion is Absurd
by BladeRazor
Greyspecter said, "...mocking attitude that dismisses all believers as being simple-minded, hateful, intolerant bigots." Just look at the historical record of religion and how it has caused more human suffering than anything. Atheists should be allowed to stir things up when church and state violations arise. We are the most discriminated group of people in America. Just try to run for office. We're the new gays. Bill Maher is the first celebrity to put his balls on the chopping block with his film by showing the absurdity of religion. I'm looking forward to it!
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:15 p.m. CST
Uh, Bladerazor
by samsquanch
just a piece of advice- Don't refer to atheists as "the new gays". It makes you sound like a douche.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:16 p.m. CST
by Blue_Demon
The suffering you speak of...was it done BECAUSE of the faith's values, or IN SPITE of the faith's values. That's the important thing.<p>I think the atheist view has killed more than the religious view. Communism has one hell of a body count. Makes Hitler look like an amateur.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:21 p.m. CST
I think Greyspector has it backwards
by Lucasblows
Whenever I get into the "I'm Atheist and here's why" conversation with anyone religious, I get the same condescending "I'll pray for your soul" or "you're lost" sympathetic attitude. I feel, as a Atheist who was raised Catholic, that you have to defend yourself from this attitude. It's insulting.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:21 p.m. CST
Blue Demon, is it a competition?
by samsquanch
I don't think you want to go there. Sure, Stalin killed what, like 20 million? He was one man, though, and he didn't commit those killings as a direct result of his atheism, or because any atheist doctrine instructed him to do so. Religion has been around for a hell of a lot longer than communism.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:32 p.m. CST
Josephus and Tacitus' references were fraudulent.
by ZeroCorpse
Look it up, kid. We've known this for a long time now. The only people clinging to them being true are the Christians who embraced them as "proof" of Jesus' existence. <p> I concede that a man named Jesus exists, too. Right now he's in the parking lot at Home Depot waiting to be hired to work on your lawn. <p> And, please-- Don't get me wrong. I DO despise religion and people who whole-heartedly and illogically embrace it. I don't think I made it any big secret. <p> I went to Christian schools much of my life. I studied theology seriously. I've been a member of several religions, and I come from a family where Quakers, Shakers, Southern Baptists, Nazarenes, Lutherans, and other protestants are the dominant members of my clan. I'm the black sheep now because I rejected religion after all they did to pound it into my head. <p> I lived in Grand Rapids for eight miserable years, and in my time there I met every kind of Evangelical Christian you could imagine, but they ALL had the same shit-eating grin on their face, and they ALL reviled me openly. Some of them would be polite while they shoveled disdain my way, while others would wait until I wasn't looking and they'd damage my personal property (break car windows, rip bumper stickers off my stuff, tear pages out of my books). So please, don't tell me that my little speech up there is an example of intolerance-- I spent most of my adult life facing the intolerance of Christians. I've been denied jobs because I wasn't a Christian, physically assaulted because I expressed a differing religious opinion, and verbally abused because I openly expressed my lack of faith. <p> I know that it's not ALL Christians who do these things, but you are responsible for your creed and what members do. If you can take jubilant credit for their conversion to your faith, you must also take blame for their misbehavior under the banner of God's love. <p> My own sister is a fundamentalist Christian. My grandfather was a fire & brimstone Quaker who believed everyone else was damned, and that Jesus Christ himself was going to escort him to Heaven upon his death. I admired my Grandfather, but I never agreed with him or the way he treated some people over religious matters. <p> The point here is that I'm allowed to disagree, and YOU'RE allowed to disagree, and how we deal with that indicates our emotional maturity. I have no problem with you being an insular butt-head who takes offense at my opinion. More power to you, mate! But there's a difference between you taking offense to it and directly addressing me, personally. You couldn't be a good Christian and "turn the other cheek" even though you KNOW it's what you're supposed to do, right? You had to come at me ready to debate, fight, and defend your faith. <p> Whereas I don't care if you insult me. I'll defend my points, but I really don't give a shit about your opinion of me, and I really don't see it as my duty to convert you out of your cult. If you want to be a brain-addled Christer, go right ahead. It's your life. <p> Just keep the fuck out of my government, my schools, and my politics. Stay the fuck away from women's clinics and anything having to do with science that threatens your faith. Worship quietly as your Jesus asked of you, and keep your fairy tales out of my way. <p> For the record, my rant doesn't just apply to Christians-- I loathe ALL religions. I tolerate some more than others, though. I've never had a Wiccan proselytize or try to interject their faith into politics. I've never had any problems with Taoists trying to convert me, or threatening to hurt me because I wasn't also a Taoist. But I have consistantly had bad experiences with members of all Abrahamic religions, and a few others (Hindus and I do not seem to get along). <p> When the religious nuts stop trying to interject their faith into my life, I'll stop loathing them. I don't care what you BELIEVE-- I only care how you interact with the things I hold dear. If you threaten MY way of life, you'd damn well better expect my scorn. <p> So no, I have no respect for your religion. Fuck your religion, and fuck you for insisting that I not disrespect it. I'll disrespect it as long as it's not worthy of respect. <p> Blue Demon-- Mother Teresa didn't feed the poor in Calcutta (I assume you were invoking her). She was allowing the sick to die, in agony, and declared their suffering to be "holy." She wouldn't give them relief from the pain or deplorable conditions because their suffering was what she believed God wanted. So even the Saints are vile people. Feeding a few poor people doesn't make up for what was essentially cult-inspired torture.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:33 p.m. CST
Samsquanch...good point.
by Blue_Demon
No, it is not a competition. I meant that under Communism, nearly 150 million have died...at the hands of officially atheist governments. Now that's in the last century.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:38 p.m. CST
by m2298
When you state that parents shouldn't be allowed to teach religion to pre-teen children (as does Dawkins) do mean it in a theoretical sense or do you really expect any democratic government to actually attempt to pass and enforce such a law?
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:40 p.m. CST
ZeroC, I'll look into Mother Theresa...
by Blue_Demon
If what you say is true, then she's no sait, I agree. But churches have been helping the poor for ages. All this good in the name of faith simply cannot be ignored because of some idiots who commit atrocities in the name of God. Again, you can sin in spite of your faith.<p>Ack...gotta get back to work. Insurance waits for no man.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:44 p.m. CST
Churches have been helping the poor for ages...
by Lucasblows
...and they not only feed them food. They feed them "the word of God" in an attempt to convert them. It's a means to an end and it's self-serving.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:47 p.m. CST
Lucasblows et al
by greyspecter
I'm not defending the condecending attitude or outright hellfire & damnation that zealots sling. Certainly, it's counterproductive 99.999% of the time. No argument here. Nay, one of the major teaching of the New Testament is that "men would see [Christians'] good works and praise God." Christians are to witness to the positive aspects of Christianity, not the negative ones, and I agree that religious institutions sadly tend to hammer on the negative ones instead of the positive ones. <p> As for the "You're going to hell" comment, well, that's what the bible teaches. If you believe the Bible to be the word of God, then you have to agree with that. But that's an issue for you and the Lord to work out. <p> Oh, and by the way, if you don't believe in this stuff, then just ignore the bellicose preachers and live your life. I surivived undergrad and grad school at a liberal arts university where the vaaaaast majority of professors didn't believe; when they mocked my faith, I just sighed and moved on.
Aug. 5, 2008, 12:56 p.m. CST
Blue, I don't doubt your numbers, I do know what you meant.
by samsquanch
You meant that because of that 150, and many millions more murdered under political regimes that happen to have an atheistic bent, we should consider that the human capacity to murder is more informed by an atheistic worldview than a religious one. This is where we disagree. It bothers me when atheists bring up the religious body count as an argument either against religion or for atheism, because I think it's a cynical way to further an argument, but your post about communism was such that I needed to weigh in, though it kind of grosses me out. <p> The only point worth making here is in what capacity, at what level of influence does either the presence or absence of religion affect grand murderous rampages, wars, pogroms, holocausts, atrocities, genocides, ethnic cleansings, etc. Your position is that the absence of religion causes these things more than the presence of it. Though I'm loathe to admit, I take the opposite view. <p> I don't happen to believe that human values, morality, or the concept of goodness flows from religion. In fact, I believe it's the other way around. I think the human construct of religion has cast itself around an older, more innate human instinct that has since been labeled goodness, and then claimed sole propriety over these instincts. <p> Therefore, I don't believe that an absence of religion necessarily denotes an absence of morality, it is simply an absence of a ritualized tribal vestige. Human goodness can and does exist without religion, as does the capacity for human evil. The fact that atheists commit evil acts is not because they are atheists, whether or not they are atheists is an incidental detail. <p> The same argument cannot be used for religion, however. Whereas atheism essentially doesn't matter, religion absolutely does, when it comes to examples in history of crimes against humanity. In fact, I would argue that the most remarkable, grotesque and singularly unique examples of human brutality, with the exception of the Holocaust, perhaps, was carried out by true believers honestly thinking they were doing their deity's will. Do you see my point? Religious crimes are committed BECAUSE of the religion of the criminal, in most cases, whereas atheists crimes are committed for other reasons.
Aug. 5, 2008, 1:09 p.m. CST
"For me and the Lord to the work out"
by Lucasblows
Whew! That's pressure! Well, thankfully I know the bible is not the word of any superior being. If it was you'd think if it was they'd have mentioned those Dinosaur things? Did God forget about those? Did Adam and Eve not notice them as they were romping naked in the Garden of Eden? Maybe they were too mesmerized by the talking snake.
Aug. 5, 2008, 1:10 p.m. CST
Ben Stein's Expelled? Why didn't this site review it?
by Flea Circus
Yes why didn't it? The best part of Expelled is that he's taking a a Christian viewpoint that well over the majority of Americans have and acting like he's a prosecuted and ostracized from society. Or that if the papers that the scientists in Expelled were writing wouldn't be hurting their careers in Galileo's time, you mean when Galileo was forced under house arrest for the rest of his life and made to recant his true statements about the universe? Please let's dial back the clock to that golden age of the Inquisition. The arguement that this world and universe is too complicated to have just happened, is my favorite part of creationism, aka intelligent design. I grew up watching videos and reading books all explaining creationism and how God made the world, so watching Expelled was like spending some time with an old friend. If man did evolve from mud and lightning over eon's of time I think that's maybe more amazing than being thought into existence or created in some far off intelligent designer laboratory. People can believe whatever they want, but here's the problem, if there is an intelligent designer than who or what is he/she? I'm sure many Christians wouldn't want teachers saying that aliens or that another god besides their own made the universe. The problem becomes the WHO, more than say looking at animals and plants and seeing how they interact in their environment, and how changes in that environment can affect things. This is what at the heart of all these debates, it's that the Bible is an unprovable, irrational document, if you don't think so reread the Bible, when Jesus says "If your hand offends you, cut it off.", that's irrational, and there's plenty of that in the Bible.
Aug. 5, 2008, 1:13 p.m. CST
Dawkin's aetheist paradise.
by drewlicious
Is pure bunk. If somehow religion dissappeared overnight we'd just find a brand new reason to kill eachother. It might be becasue of cultural or racial differences, economics, greed, or just over available resources. I wouldn't be suprised if that would be a reason for us and Chinese going to war in 20 years. In some cases devotion to a scientific theory closely resembles religious fervor. There was a point in history where people still clung to eugenics and even today some won't even debate certain theories. Case in point: Global warming. I do believe that the most likely answer is that it is happening and we are at least partially to blame, however it's strongest promoters won't even debate it in a public forum. I understand that they may feel that it would be wrong to give a bullshit counterpoint (if it is bullshit) any attentiont would be counterproductive, but if the truth is on your side you should be open to all challenges.
Aug. 5, 2008, 1:24 p.m. CST
drew- the truth is open
by samsquanch
Just becuase someone believes in science, doesn't mean they aren't flawed close-minded assholes. And the reason that a lot of scientists won't debate it is because the people inviting debate tend to have a very clear religious agenda, and that is something that is seen to be beneath the standing of any scientist worth his salt. Believe me, they aren't afraid of the religious agenda, they simple deem it beneath them. Take that as you will. <p> There's a point to be made that a religion that can't adapt to an ever-changing world, and an ever-expanding field of knowledge about our world is doomed to wither and become irrelevant. That's what baffles me about the resistance to the mounting evidence of Global Warming, or Intelligent Design or Creationism movements- they're just so astonishingly counter-intuitive, so stridently hostile to neutral, reasonable ways of thinking that are not in and of themselves anti-religious, that it reminds me of the Shakespearean line: "thou doth protest too much". There's something very competetive about it, as if the creationists believe that science is an adversary, like a visiting football team, horning in on turf that was already claimed by religion. How very macho. In fact, and I'm sure you understand this- science isn't actually a belief system or an ideology, it's a method, and one that is built on the premise that it can be wrong, often is wrong, and will never be complete. It's an open-minded process, whereas the creationist's version of Christianity is air-tight and hermetically sealed against even the most passive investigation. One thing that always amuses me about Creationists is their adopting of the empirical state of 'theory' as applied to Natural Selection. "Darwin's theory is just that- a theory", they announce, triumphantly, firmly believing that they have felled Goliath with his own stone. Well, Like I said, Science is a method, and in fact, all science, (with the exception of a fraction of the observable stuff and phenomena that make up our immediate surroundings) is "just a theory". That's how science works. The empirical process begins with an idea, opinion, or leap of intuition, or most often, an unexpected accident, then a hypothesis is formed. Once the hypothesis has been put through a series of tests it becomes a theory. At any point along this line if anything goes wrong, if the hypothesis falls apart under evidence, it never reaches the level of theory. A theory becomes a theory when everything goes right, when all tests and evidence add up to what the hypothesis posits, but something like evolution can't become scientific fact because no one has so far sat down to observe the process over millions of years and take notes. Empirically speaking, it remains 'just a theory', But a theory with almost 200 years of rigorous, mounting evidence and experimentation that supports it. With each and every field of scholarship in science that has developed since Victorian times, geology, chemistry, biology, anthropology, (among others) the theory of evolution has been supported. Not once, in almost two centuries has the slightest hint that there might be something wrong with it ever shown up. So "Just a theory" actually means a great, great deal. <p> It's ironic that the method of science that prevents it from labeling evolution as fact is the thing most infinitely sensible about it, and the thing that creationists try to use against it, without any sense.
Aug. 5, 2008, 2:12 p.m. CST
Atheism explained
by BladeRazor
"…under Communism, nearly 150 million have died...at the hands of officially atheist governments..." This is an erroneous association. Atheism had nothing more to do with Stalin's maniacal killing spree than his moustache. It's a common come-back that the Jesus-heads make in defending their mythology. Nobody ever tries to convert the world to atheism. Sam Harris argues that the term Atheist really shouldn't be used any more than you would call somebody a "non-astrologer". Atheism is not an organization. It is a rejection of all deities. Also, the non-religious represent close to 17% of America. That's more than a lot of the popular religious cults out there yet most of us remain in the closet. It took a civil rights movement to level the playing field for people of color and a woman's movement to gain respect in a man's world. This film will only help the cause. Someday, America will be a lot like secular Europe where they have all but discarded the make-believe in favor of the scientific method to explain our origins.
Aug. 5, 2008, 2:53 p.m. CST
Blade, I hope you're right,
by samsquanch
but I don't think this film will help atheists. You don't raise yourself in the eyes of the world by being a surly, self-righteous bully. You don't win an argument by making fun of your opponent. This film just seems petty and cynical to me. <p> Anyway, there's a new Religulous TB at the top. Let's go there.
Aug. 5, 2008, 3:30 p.m. CST
by Blue_Demon
If the 150 million killed in this century had little to do with Communism, then they had even less to do with religion.<p>I like your view of this human instinct we label good coming from within us. I don't agree with it, but it is a sweet thought (and no, I'm not being a wise-ass.) This view of yours, that religion was based on this human trait kind of proves the point I want to make that religion, if based on good, is good! I agree, the absense of religion does not denote the absense of morality. There are some wonderful atheists out there, just as there are some vile Christians. You say that the fact that atheists commit evil acts is not because they are atheists. Okay, I can go with that. Where I have to disagree with you is where you say that Religious crimes are commited BECAUSE of the religion of the criminal. You say that various crimes are carried out by true believers "honestly thinking they were doing their deity's will." That's the key phrase here. Up on the talkbalk I said that people commit atrocities not BECAUSE of their religion, but IN SPITE of their religion. It is because of a horrific misinterpretation of faith that these murders occur. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that it is okay for a person who disagrees with abortion should kill an abortion doctor.<p>Using your view, that religion was based on the goodness of man and not the other way around, then religion is probably a way to what? Articulate that feeling? Then it is a good thing. I feel religion, at its core, is here to make the world a better place.<p>I must say, I have enjoyed this exchange. It's nice to run into somebody who disagrees with me who doesn't resort to name-calling. The word "douchebag" gets use more in talkbacks than on the floor of a douchebag factory. :)
Aug. 5, 2008, 3:42 p.m. CST
Noah's Ark
by BladeRazor
"…surly, self-righteous bully." I haven't seen the film so I don't know if there is any bullying. Christians and other religious kooks usually will dig their own grave when you simply ask them the age the Earth or about Dinosaurs or about the "talking snake" fable. Or ask them how Noah loaded pairs of all the Earth's animal species onto a 3,000 year old wooden boat- and why the tigers didn't eat the lambs. It all makes for some great entertainment without any bullying required. From the trailer it looks as though that was Maher's approach.
Aug. 5, 2008, 4:50 p.m. CST
I can only wonder
by Boromir
who in their right mind would admit to being an "evangelical Christian" in the United States in 2008. I'm sure the EC's themselves would respond that it's someone who's not ashamed of their faith, and who refuses to deny Jesus Christ, yada, yada, yada. I can only guess that's it's also someone who doesn't feel guilt or shame for helping to publicly perpetrate some of the grossest injustices, gravest errors, and shockingly horrific failures of morality and public policy ever committed by a ruling regime in this country. Maybe these folks should be given an award for audacity and obliviousness. Then made to ring a bell and shout "unclean" wherever they go.
Aug. 5, 2008, 5:23 p.m. CST
One thing I do love, is the assertion that:
by Novaman5000
Without religion, there would be no morality. I find that suggestion hilarious and actually fairly insulting to the human race in general. It's as if mankind is not capable of goodness unless being forced to do it by God.<p> It seems like alot of religion is about that: Painting man as primarily bad creatures in need of a savior. If something good happens, it's God's will, not because of anything man did. If something bad happens, it's because mankind has free will and they're full of sin. We humans can't win!
Aug. 5, 2008, 5:30 p.m. CST
Both these films sound like shit
by Mullah Omar
Thanks for the warning.
Aug. 5, 2008, 7:49 p.m. CST
"Being a surly, self-righteous bully."
by torgosPizza
You're talking about the religious right, I assume? No one is more of a bully than the conservatives. Atheists and others like me who are non-believers, freethinkers, whatever, are on a constant uphill battle against the religious folks who wish to push their beliefs on others. Why do music and movies get censored? Religion. The FCC is afraid of offending the religious right, so they censor the "God" out of "God Damn." Wouldn't want to take OUR lord's name in vain, right? Whose lord, exactly? Sure as hell isn't mine.
Aug. 5, 2008, 9:16 p.m. CST
by sweeneydave
As Christians it's very important to have our faith challenged. It's far better for us to believe because we truely believe rather than because somebody told us to.
Aug. 5, 2008, 10:39 p.m. CST
hey M-O-M
by theBigE
Maybe it's not clear in my review (not much of a writer, it's true) but I didn't dislike Religulous because it was done by Bill Maher, an agnostic (atheists are convinced there is no God, he clearly says he doesn't know and thinks it to be unlikely). The film does have some great laughs in the first hour. What I didn't like was Maher's inability to bring up anything new or somewhat deep in the discourse on religion. You can find better humor from the Christian satire magazine the Wittenburg Door. And Maher's venomous tacked on conclusion seemed to have no justification - he was really stretching. I appreciate absurdist humor - I loved Borat, even when he went into the Pentecostal Church in that film. Humor about Christians doesn't scare me. But be responsible, have a point that is valid based on the findings you present. That's the real problem with the film.
Aug. 5, 2008, 11:04 p.m. CST
atheists don't believe in no gods; they lack belief in gods
by JacksParasites
It's a subtle distinction but an important one. It requires no faith whatsoever to not believe in magical thinking that can't be falsified. Everything about religion is pathetic and absurd. And the fact that much of the world still believes in these anti-scientific, atavistic superstitions involving stories of magic talking snakes and 900-year-old alcoholics building magical boats large enough to carry every kind of animal on the planet, enough food for all of them for 40 days, space for all their shit, and presumably compartments keeping the predators from eating their prey--all of this is worthy of ridicule often. You're perfectly capable of finding values on your own. You've been doing it your whole life. The universe didn't have you in mind, nor does it care whether you've worn mixed fabrics or who you've slept with or even if you've killed somebody. Only we care about that because we have brains capable of feeling empathy for those who are suffering and we can identify with them. I hope the religious get over yourselves. Like the rest of us living on this pale blue dot in a random galaxy amongst billions and billions of other galaxies, in the grand scheme of the universe, you're not that important. The universe doesn't owe you anything, nor will it miss you when you're gone. The sooner you accept this reality, the sooner you'll realize that you're perfectly capable of being happy and living a happy life without buying into the deluded magical thinking of ancient primitives with no greater understanding of the universe than the rest of us.
Aug. 6, 2008, 2:03 a.m. CST
Hey Novaman
by Balcony Fool
Men *are* primarily bad creatures. You don't need to be a scientist to figure that out. You don't need to teach you're children to be selfish, manipulative, mean, or violent. They have those qualities inherently. We teach them, instead, to be kind, giving, thoughtful, etcetera. <P> It has little to do with the whole notion of religion, but the idea that man is inherently good is worthy of a good ol' fashined LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
Aug. 6, 2008, 2:03 p.m. CST
by Jack Parsons
what did jesus say that was original and instructive? none of his concepts were original - he did not invent morality. i asked this question of a believer, and he quoted something about the fact that jesus stated he was the son of god and that we should follow, and that was all the message we needed. really? obey me or burn? that's a devil, not a god.
Aug. 6, 2008, 2:13 p.m. CST
by Jack Parsons
the word "atheist" means "no god". it doesn't mean "not your god". point is, all of you are atheists. just not about the same ones. if you complain about atheism, i suggest arguing with the face in your bathroom mirror.
Aug. 6, 2008, 2:17 p.m. CST
make a stand
by Jack Parsons
either you believe in talking snakes, or you don't. atheism or deism. there is no fence, never was. the bible is not a metaphorical document. either it is, or is not, true. and to believe in the talking snake requires the infliction of childhood trauma, otherwise it would be a silly story. to believe a mad thing, you must be injected during the period in which you have no ideological immune system. dawkins makes a salient point that religion is child abuse, and that no child is a christian or muslim -- their parents are, and make them so
Aug. 7, 2008, 11:12 a.m. CST
Wow Jack Parsons - talking to yourself?
by JackRabbitSlim
And he rants at the silence...
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text:
Sunshine Kitchen and Moonshine Lounge
Phone: (218) 454-0258
723 Mill Ave | Brainerd, MN 56401
Hot Deals
Free Menu Item
Buy one menu item at regular price and get a second menu item of equal or lesser value for free.
This special is a coupon available to guests of any Brainerd or Baxter Lodging property listed on the Visit Brainerd website. Coupons are available at the hotel or you can call Visit Brainerd at 218-825-0410

subset: commoncrawl


text:
September 11 Digital Archive: XML Document
Story:I am in sales for a relocation company, and was pulling up to a potential customers home when the reports of the firt plane were comming on the radio. Like many people I had an inmage in my head of a little prop plane bouncing off of the building and the sad notion that a few people may have been killed. Little did I know...I entered Julie's home to go on with my day, and saw the live footage on the today show. This was worse than I had pictured, and this woman I have never met was standing there with tears in her eyes telling me her brother worked in the adjacent building. I didnt ever pay any attention to the WTC so I had almost forgot there were two towers.....Thats when the 2nd plane streaked across the screen. I remember standing there stunned for what felt like hours, realizing this woman may be watching her brother die on live television, feeling out of place in her home, figuring out that this was no accident, and wanting to call my wife and new baby to ensure their safety all at once. She was in a similar frame of mind I am sure, so we did the only thing that came naturally, embraced and cried.
I spent 4 hours at her home that morning. We are friends today, brought together by a horrible moment. She says I kept her sane through the worst moment of her life, but I think it may have been the other way around. Her brother got out in time by the way, and has since moved back to Boston.


text:
1. Today there is a chance of showers and thunderstorms, with a high near 62, according to the National Weather Service. Tonight, there is a chance of showers, with a low around 54, according to the service.
2. Thursday night, Robert Nauta submitted an application to the Conservation Commission to turn 15 Laurelcrest Drive into a subdivision with five single-family homes. Nauta submitted a larger application which was met by heavy resistance by the neighbors.
3. Congratulations to Waterford resident Benjamin R. Farina who graduated with a masters in business administration this weekend from Quinnipiac University.
4. Tonight at 7 the Planning and Zoning Commission continues its public hearing on a request by Kobyluck Brothers LLC to This should be the last night of the hearing. The Planning and Zoning Commission will then wait for before it makes a decision.
Let Patch save you time. Get great local stories like this delivered right to your inbox or smartphone every day with our free newsletter. Simple, fast sign-up here.
5. On this date in 1804, the Lewis and Clark Expedition departed from Illinois. The troop would walk to the Pacific Coast of Washington state and then back to St. Louis.
Quote of the Day
"Today you are you! That is truer than true! There is no one alive who is you-er than you!"
-Dr. Seuss
Trivia of the Day
What children's author wrote James and the Giant Peach, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and The BFG?
Friday's Answer: The name of Jon Hamm's character in Mad Men is Don Draper.


text:
View View View in Asheville
- bedrooms 3
- baths 3
- sleeps 6
- pool no
- hot tub no
- pets considered yes
- type House
rates (USD)
/ night
vacation rental description
You're invited to relax with jaw dropping westward views from each room in this newly renovated home. Don't worry if you desire privacy from others when the day is done. The Asheville View Getaway offers three separate floors with spacious bathrooms, comfortable large beds, and the best view you'll find in the area. Meet with others in the living room with vaulted ceilings. Sit on the massage chair and play your favorite Netflix movie on the 52' LED TV with HDTV & Blue Ray . Need to catch up with others? Use the free long distance phone and the high speed wireless Internet throughout the home. Kitchen has everything for your cooking needs. Light the fireplace to make the dinner romantic or take the dinner outside onto the covered, screened deck. Watch the sunset over the mountains after dinner in one of the four comfortable rocking chairs. Not enough? The heart of downtown Asheville is 1.3 miles away and the Blue Ridge Parkway is 6 miles from your front door
Each Bedroom 'suite' has it's own bathroom, comfortable bed, view and LED TV. Each bedroom is found on a separate floor so privacy is assured. We already have a Netllix account so you'll be able to watch all your favorite moves free of charge on the large 52' TV. Home has 4 LED TVS. One 52' LED TV in living room and three LED mounted TVs in all bedrooms. Home has been designed so larger groups can enjoy their time together and then have full privacy with all amenities at the end of the day.
vacation rental location
property availability
- dates with deals
- unavailable dates
Last modified on 08-7-2014 at 3:53 PM.
email owner view full calendar
Chris Carson 828 333-3448
house rental amenities
Property Type
- house
- floor area 1300 sq. ft.
Location Type
- mountain
- downtown
- mountain view
- romantic
- family
- wireless internet
- alarm clock
- ceiling fans
- laundry soap
- local maps
- paper towels
- basic soaps
- toilet paper
- telephone
air conditioning
- New Trane HVAC system(heating and cooling). Energy Star.
- heating
- linens provided
- parking
- garage
- internet
- towels provided
- washing machine
- clothes dryer
- fireplace
- iron & board
- gas fireplace
- free long distance
- blender
- ice maker
- stove
- coffee maker
- toaster
- cooking utensils
- grill
- dishwasher
- refrigerator
- freezer
- oven
- microwave
- kitchen
- dining area
- child's highchair
- Bathrooms
- 3 bathrooms
- bathroom 1: toilet, shower
- bathroom 2: toilet, combination tub/shower
- bathroom 3: toilet, combination tub/shower
- First and third floor bathrooms are very spacious with closets and linen space. Second floor bathroom has view of Asheville.
- Bedrooms
- 3 bedrooms, sleeps 6
- bedroom 1: 1 king, baby items if desired
- bedroom 2: 1 queen, baby items if desired
- bedroom 3: 1 queen, 1 sleep sofa /futon, baby items if desired
- Three bedrooms on three separate floors. First floor bedroom has a double size bed with it's own spacious bathroom, comfortable chair and access to its own covered deck. Second floor bedroom is the largest with a king size bed, two spacious closets, full bathroom, reading space, and double French doors leading the main deck. Third floor has a queen size bed and futon with a full spacious bathroom and walk in closet. All bedrooms have amazing views.
- dvd player
- books
- books for adults
- games
- toys
- television
satellite / cable
- HDTV for Cable. 52" LCD TV hooked up to Blue Ray DVD player. Netflix ready.
- cd player
- deck / patio
- outdoor grill
- binoculars
- wood deck
- screen porch / veranda
- non smoking only
- long-term renters welcome
- children welcome
- wheelchair inaccessible
- pets considered
- minimum age limit for renters
- Notes
- House could be baby-proofed if necessary. In addition, playpen/crib and high chair will be provided if needed. Sleeps 6 very comfortably and 8 if you fold out the futon. You'll love this house and want to come back over and over. Pamper yourself a little. Give us a call.
activities and attractions in Asheville Smoky Mountains
- playground
- coin laundry
- cinemas
- synagogues
- forests
- museums
- recreation center
- arboretum
- live theater
- autumn foliage
- health/beauty spa
- churches
- winery tours
- botanical garden
- restaurants
- waterfalls
- library
- pond
Leisure Activities
- walking
- shopping
- eco tourism
- antiquing
- boating
- sight seeing
- wildlife viewing
- bird watching
- miniature golf
- scenic drives
Sports & Adventure Activities
- golf
- mountain climbing
- kayaking
- mountaineering
- basketball court
- tennis
- swimming
- freshwater fishing
- racquetball
- fishing
- hiking
- hunting
- rafting
- mountain biking
- cycling
- fly fishing
payment methods
Owner has not provided their accepted payment methods
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text:
LAS VEGAS -- Teachers, parents and activists staged a protest outside the Clark County School District building Thursday in hopes of keeping one program from being cut during the sequester.
"Right now, I'm a single working mother. I'm not on public assistance of any other kind. Without the Head Start program, then it becomes really challenging," said Diane Forsman.
Her 5-year-old daughter, Dylan, is in Head Start.
"The resources that they were able to hook us up with, in terms of medical care and dental and all that good stuff, would have been a lot more challenging for us to find because we were so new to the area."
"Since 1965, Head Start has helped over 200 million Americans," said Connie Snyder, a volunteer with Organizing for Action.
After 48 years -- with the sequester now looming -- Head Start programs nationwide are bracing for the chopping block.
"I am a retired teacher," Snyder said. She believes early intervention with underprivileged kids is important, especially if they don't have support at home.
A recent evaluation report by the Department of Health and Human services shows the $8 billion a year taxpayer-funded Head Start program may not be all that effective when it comes to a child's well-being and academic success.
It found the positive impacts for Head Start kids didn't last as a child entered elementary school. The study looked at 5,000 third graders, some received Head Start, while others didn't.
"These programs have been proven to be very successful for children, and the effects are seen well into the third grade. I know opponents of the program often say the effects wear off after that length of time, but I would say, let's look then at kindergarten, first grade and second grade," Forsman said.
It's estimated, sequestration could cut roughly 300 students from Head Start programs across Nevada.


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Deputies are looking for a man who has been spotted approaching young boys at a Beaverton park.
The first report was filed on July 24 regarding a stranger talking to children at Somerset Meadows Park. A woman called police to report a white man in his 20s with dirty blond hair and braces approaching boys in the park.
The woman said her son was on a swing when the man asked the boy if he had ever jumped off the swing. The boy said he was then asked if he was alone at the park or if his mom was there.
The child ignored the man, got off the swing and walked toward his mom. The woman told investigators the man then asked two other kids what game they were playing before realizing parents had noticed him. He then walked away from the park.
Deputies took a similar report from another mother who witnessed a man with the same description talking to boys on two separate days this week.
Tualatin Hills Parks and Recreation officials have been notified and deputies who patrol the area have been put on alert to be on the lookout for this man, according to the Washington County Sheriff's Office.
The first report described the man's braces as being green in color. He was also wearing a Transformers shirt and hat, along with DC shoes.
Investigators want to hear from this man or anyone who might have information about him. Deputies also ask anyone who experiences something suspicious like this to call police right away so they can respond immediately and possibly make contact with the person in question.
Copyright 2013 KPTV-KPDX Broadcasting Corporation. All rights reserved.
A woman who was texting while driving was impaled by guardrail pole.


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