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is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
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Topic: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards? (Read 4909 times)
Full Member
Posts: 183
is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
March 19, 2012, 06:56:52 PM »
I am old to enough to remember when a photograph was a piece of paper. ONLY. This was a high resolution display device that far exceeded what the capture devices could provide. Sure there were transparencies, scans and projectors and large format media. But these were not how most of the world experienced photographs. The printed image was the market that drove the development of the SLR and a company spent its resources on the camera as it was the major tool. Its flaws were documented on hard copy. And its successes were celebrated in Time, Life, Look, etc.
But now we are flowing into a new medium, the digital image. Even before it has left the sensor that captured it, it is really only a sample of the light that landed on the sensor. A subset of the photons travelling through the lens are sorted into luminance boxes the way mail is sorted into addresses. The image is then blasted through myriad display devices - from tablets to televisions to phones. All with their own display shortcomings. The image is degraded more. A great one from Ansel Adams, Walker Evans, or whoever, is no longer seen only in a fine art book or a large poster where much care has been devoted to its reproduction. Pixelated, color compressed and washed out copies pass for the original in front of many new eyes that really don't know what the original really is. Even on this website and others (DPR), people post images and discuss them. I often wonder what is lost when someone with an uncalibrated TN monitor reads the discussion and cant tell what is being discussed. Even those with properly calibrated monitors with an expanded gamut cant approach the detail and impact of a good print.
Instead, I see more and more ways to 'enhance' an image. I have seen crazy psychedelic image bastardization apps on a phone and complex digital image processing on a powerful pc. The emphasis seems more and more to processing an image and too often to add any random emotion the that crosses someone's mind. Sure, some companies have developed amazing software- Adobe's next version of photoshop will detect motion blur and remove it. In camera hdr and other technologies like fuji's exr sensor seem to be just the beginning of what can be accomplished with multiple exposures in camera. But why isnt there the same fervor to improve quality. If my audience cant see my work on anything better than 1080p display devices, why bother to capture more than 6 megapixels? (and I do not want more room to crop)
I wish there were a format for the 'smart photograph'. A file that knows what it is being displayed on and corrects itself for the most faithful reproduction to the original. We already have this for web pages- digital signatures and certificates serve to validate that one is viewing an unmolested original.
Many of you here have a much greater breadth and depth of experience than I. Perhaps I am missing the boat but would enjoy hearing how some of you see photography evolving as it affects the print. As this high resolution display device disappears, will high resolution capture devices go the way of the steam engine?
I post this in the printers forum because I dont know where else would be more appropriate.
Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 06:59:18 PM by bwana
Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
Posts: 5720
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #1 on:
March 19, 2012, 07:16:16 PM »
Print is dead...
... just does not know it yet. Just like film, newspapers, books, CDs, etc. It will be the domain of the few, esoteric, collectors, rich, eccentric, nostalgic...
Tony Jay
Sr. Member
Posts: 2081
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #2 on:
March 19, 2012, 07:29:37 PM »
Not sure that I agree with Slobodan here.
There is certainly a shift occurring that is not complete.
However, this is similar to the claim that television would kill the cinema - it hasn't yet and I doubt it will.
I do not see digital display as killing the print.
My $0.02 worth
Tony Jay
Sr. Member
Posts: 601
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #3 on:
March 19, 2012, 08:00:35 PM »
Quote from: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 19, 2012, 07:16:16 PM
Print is dead...
... just does not know it yet. Just like film, newspapers, books, CDs, etc. It will be the domain of the few, esoteric, collectors, rich, eccentric, nostalgic...
Wow!...just as painting was after the invention of photography.
Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
Posts: 5720
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #4 on:
March 19, 2012, 08:01:01 PM »
Funny, bwana, that you posted that, as I was contemplating starting a thread with the same question.
I was in a furniture store the other day and noticed they are using flat-TVs to display images of their collections, kind of slide show. Then it hit me: how long before the price of a TV equates the price of framing a print? At this point, printing and framing a 24x36 print would cost between $200 and $300, give or take. The same dimension TV is 43" diagonally and they are currently already close to that, i.e., around $400-$500. Wait for a deal, and you just might get it for the price of framing a single print.
Add to the equation that, for the purpose of displaying photos only, the TV may be stripped of all other features, kind of a giant photo frame, and you can see how close the prices will converge.
And that is all in comparison to ONE framed print. A TV can display gazillion of them. Imagine the problem most people have with large prints on their walls: they do not have enough walls! Let alone the effect of getting used to seeing the same print day in, day out, to the point of becoming oblivious to it.
Add to the equation that most photographs look better on screen than in print (contrast ratio, reflecting vs. emitting light, etc.).
Finally, here comes Retina display, to address the most common argument in favor of print: resolution. Retina display already matches and surpasses ppi of most prints.
Most of todays gazillion photographs, dare I say 99.9 % of it, will never, ever be printed. People are already content with showing it on Flickr, Facebook or emailing it, watching it on their phones, computers and iPads.
And that is all happening already today. For tomorrow, no wonder I feel the print is dead, for all but the selected few.
EDIT: Shall I add that Kodak was betting its future on printing... we know the outcome.
Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 08:04:40 PM by Slobodan Blagojevic
Posts: 3
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #5 on:
March 19, 2012, 08:16:39 PM »
Fortunately people aren't all the same. I had a discussion with a family member the other day who told me that his wife educated him to appreciate Art. He started going to museums and really learned to enjoy the power of the composition, and just as important, the medium.
Do you think he'll be happy with a digital version, or will he more likely purchase a print of some kind? To me the answer is obvious. Some people enjoy swirls of paint, or the look and touch of a Fine Art paper.
Not to worry.
Mark Esposito
Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
Posts: 5720
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #6 on:
March 19, 2012, 08:21:43 PM »
Quote from: MarkEsposito on March 19, 2012, 08:16:39 PM
... Some people enjoy swirls of paint, or the look and touch of a Fine Art paper...
I never said there won't be "some people".
Wayne Fox
Sr. Member
Posts: 2826
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #7 on:
March 19, 2012, 08:53:57 PM »
Interesting. My printing department, both fine art inkjet and photo paper based is up over 200% from last year.
While I'll agree the low end printing business has dramatically declined, until there are some much more viable options to display work around a home or office printing will be around. Even inkjet still hasn't been able to supplant silver halide .. you would think by now this would have happened. While it has diminished it is still very strong - manly because it is still far more economical. WHCC is still growing, and they haven't had to give up their private jets. I think Epson's business is doing pretty good as well.
so perhaps in the long term the comment is correct, but maybe only in a more generic assumption kind of way ... the statement could really be applied universally because "everything is dead and just doesn't know it".
My image gallery
My blog - cwaynefox.com
my store - Pixels Foto & Frame
Sr. Member
Posts: 5468
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #8 on:
March 19, 2012, 09:00:32 PM »
Quote from: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 19, 2012, 07:16:16 PM
Print is dead...
Nope...but what we have seen is the explosion of digital media. Between the web and media devices, many, many more images are seen on a screen than in a print hanging on a walland that's fine. It's cool that displays can show more images...but that's not a death knell for print, it's just an explosion of a different medium.
I went to the
Annenberg Space for Photography
last year. They use display screens in an interesting presentation particularly for electron medium (meaning stuff that starts life in digital). They are currently showing The Digital Darkroom (haven't seen that show) pretty interesting stuff (also interesting to note Jerry Uelsmann is in it as is his wife Maggie Taylorinteresting because Jerry don't do digital and all of Maggie's is).
I see these knee jerk reactions all the time. Some people think that because one media is exploding, other media must die. Wrong. I see it as a win/win not win/lose situation. The more the variety of medium that photos can be seen on, the better it is for photography.
Fine art photography and prints aren't dead...in fact, photography as a collectable art is increasing despite the economy. Yes, top prices for top photographers are a bit stagnant...largely because before the recession the prices could have been pushed too high (be dealers).
Craftsmanship for any and all medium you may wish to use still requires a lot of work. And, no, print ain't dead, it's just sleeping.
Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 09:04:12 PM by Schewe
Sr. Member
Posts: 526
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #9 on:
March 19, 2012, 09:45:14 PM »
I went into an Apple store the other day and noticed that they no longer use printed cards showing the specs of the various Applevices, they are now using IPads, obviously lots of benefits to that. I believe the low end of printing (4x6 & 5x7) is on its last leg, people use their phones, tablets, ipods, etc. to show off their photos. It's nice having flat panels throughout the house making image swapping very easy. However, there will always be some demand for a print......
Peter Le
Jr. Member
Posts: 58
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #10 on:
March 19, 2012, 10:02:18 PM »
No I think it is raising print standards.....and no I don't think the print is dead or ever will be. It is a little over shadowed by all the new ways to present our work. But still when I show a customer some of work they are usually pleased and impressed. But when I pull out a really good print of the same photo.......their jaw usually drops and they pull out their wallet .........that will never change. Nothing impresses the eye more that a high quality print on really good paper. What I see less of at shows is really low quality chainstore prints and that is a good thing.....
Full Member
Posts: 179
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #11 on:
March 19, 2012, 10:30:19 PM »
Quote from: Schewe on March 19, 2012, 09:00:32 PM
It's cool that displays can show more images...but that's not a death knell for print, it's just an explosion of a different medium.
Yes! ...and the incredible explosion of photographic images everywhere you look is right up there in importance with George Eastman's little invention. Millions of people around the globe print billions of photographs every day in their homes, mostly with the same quality as they got in a week or two at the drug store's photo lab. Or, they display them instantly electronically. The more people who know at least something about photography (or any craft/art/skill), the more they appreciate truly fine work... and buy it for themselves.
As I watch the people who come into the art gallery where oils, pastels and watercolors hang, along with my photographs, I always know who are the photographers. The people standing 10 feet from the wall are looking at oils, pastels and watercolors. The people standing 10 inches from the wall are looking at photographs. When I overhear them talking about f stops, shutter speeds and focal lengths used to get the shot, there's a pretty good chance that they'll buy the print.
There is nothing like a beautifully printed, matted and framed print... and there is nothing like looking at the same image on a perfectly calibrated top-of-the line display. Both are wonderful... and quite different from each other. Maybe the new displays being developed will some day be able to mimic a print and hang on your wall, instead of looking like an electronic device. If or when that happens, I will say goodbye to my printer and paper.
Ernst Dinkla
Sr. Member
Posts: 2829
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #12 on:
March 20, 2012, 03:19:53 AM »
Usually old technology reaches its peak in quality when it is challenged by new technology.
So far the growth in picture taking seems to compensate the % decline in pictures printed. Do not count the minilab market numbers, the market changed.
Collectors, musea, photographers in the art category face a new challenge on copyrights when image data will be distributed instead of prints. It has to be seen whether they will embrace that market. Displays with several images included have been sold by artists for over a decade. Ger van Elk for example.
He still sells prints.
For one reason or another a lightbox + transparent print on the wall never really replaced the reflective print. While there are advantages like a wider dynamic range and a larger gamut. Thin light boxes are possible. Could be the same reason why we prefer reading E-paper above other displays for reading. The energy consumption of a light reflecting picture on the wall can only be equalled by E-paper, Electro wetting, etc, displays. Image quality aspects like gamut, resolution, texture are still not equal to prints in that type of displays.
met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
Shareware too:
330+ paper white spectral plots:
John R Smith
Sr. Member
Posts: 1357
Still crazy, after all these years
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #13 on:
March 20, 2012, 05:22:19 AM »
If printing is supposedly in decline then the statistics from this Forum do not support the argument.
This, the printing section, has 6,921 topics (the most of any section) and 61,130 posts (soon to be 61,131
), which puts it in second place in terms of activity on LL.
What has completely changed, not declined, is the family snapshotter's media. No longer is it the pack of 6x4s from Jessops, but pass the i-phone around instead. As for the rest, the people who shot slide film rarely printed anyhow, and those who enjoyed working away in the darkroom still print. For new photographers the choice has never been wider.
Hasselblad 500 C/M, SWC and CFV-39 DB
and a case full of (very old) lenses and other bits
Jeff Magidson
Full Member
Posts: 140
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #14 on:
March 20, 2012, 08:21:54 AM »
There is a lot of convergence taking place. I went to the Apple store yesterday to take a look at the new iPad. Photos displayed on it REALLY look like high gloss prints... like Cibachromes. I know we will quickly get used to this level of display performance but it made my heart race.
~ Jeff Magidson
John Nollendorfs
Sr. Member
Posts: 325
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #15 on:
March 20, 2012, 11:26:24 AM »
And us digital artists are just pondering this now? ;-)
Bill Gates founded what is now called Corbis, back in 1989. Rumor was that he wanted to decorate his new house with flat panel displays on the wall and was looking for digital reproductions of art. Read this from Wikipedia on Corbis--
Corbis is privately owned by Bill Gates, who founded the company in 1989 under the name Interactive Home Systems (a name currently held by an unrelated, slightly older company based in Concord, Massachusetts). One major reason for starting the company was Gates's belief that people would someday decorate their homes with a revolving display of digital artwork using digital frames.[3] The company's name was changed to Continuum Productions in 1994 and to Corbis Corporation a year later. "Corbis" is Latin for "wicker basket", which at the time referred to the company's emerging view of itself as a receptacle or storehouse for visual media."
I prefer to think of fine art photographs as prints. It's not a photograph until it becomes a print, in my book. All these digital images we have floating around in the "cloud", or on hard drives, or other fragile digital media are just "0"s and "1"s and will be lost forever when something crashes. The print has a much better probability of surviving in the next hundred years.
It would be interesting to overhear conversations on the subject 100 years in the future, ". . .didn't those folk back then believe in preserving their digital images. . ."
Yes, our media today is much better, longer lasting. But unless we print the image, what's the likely hood that the photograph will survive?
Full Member
Posts: 183
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #16 on:
March 20, 2012, 11:32:57 AM »
Thank you all for replying in an enlightening and reassuring manner. I really appreciate the lack of metropolitan incivility that sometimes escapes the confines of an upset photographer. But I wonder what the impact is on our perception of quality and how it drives our choices. I would never think of lugging an 8x10 view camera to Zermatt to capture what Ansel might have tried in Europe-although I did dream of doing that when I was younger. But my point is that the bewildering diversity of display devices has brought to awareness the question 'is it good enough for how it will be seen'. When you made a print, sure you had to deal with the viewing conditions, but that did not really change the way you printed the image, let alone influence your decision on the camera you used to capture the image. You always tried to get the best quality in camera and show the best example as a slide. Having multiple camera bodies dangling from your neck with with backs handy was a common sight.
But now we showcase the work on digital displays, tablets and pcs. Even MILCs with APS-C sensors far exceed what that display medium requires. And in fact, many of our interactions are on the net. I guess it's not so much the 'declining prevalence of the print' but rather the tsunami of digital imagery that has overwhelmed sensibility. The fundamental data type that stores our imagery is flawed.
We store pixels with data points attached. But this is the same problem that typesetters had in the early days of pcs. Enlarging a font resulted in a pixelated mess and unless you had font installed on your pc, good luck reading without getting a headache. We evolved to vector representation of text that is infinitely scalable and looks good no matter what display you read it on. So my question can be flipped on its head but is then rather technical. Instead of asking 'is our technology making us stupider, blinder, coarser' - I'd rather ask 'can a vector representation of an image format help preserve our perceptions and standards'?
For the sake of clarity, consider the following brief, too simple and uninformed example. Digital certificates like verisign would have to be stored and made by a trusted agency-perhaps like LuLa and Google? So when I display an image, the image calls home and gets a certificate. The image checks what it is being displayed on and corrects itself to give the right colors. The other problem is how would you transform a set of finite pixels into a set of mathematical equations - it might not be as hard as would be imagined, but it would involve adding interpolated information to an image. This already is done in many imaging apps.
My point is that no one has asked the question - is it worth preserving quality, making the effort to communicate quality. How each of you perceive quality is unique and not easily communicated. But you know it when you see it. And you know crap when you see it too. Too often though it's easier to call something crap and prove it-because flaws can always be seen. But when quality is limited by the display medium, how do you point it out? How do you tell others that something is good when they can't see it?
I am sure many of you have thought about this stuff and even talked about it with clients or at shows,galleries,etc. If there are real technical reasons that a solution is not possible, I would like to hear them. Another way to 'maintain quality' is to have some sort of technical standard bar-although this is very subjective and not codifiable. For example, I would like to see a hi-res downloadable photograph reviewed by multiple respected photographers independently. I would pay to download a hi-res landscape that has been commented by the photographer who made it describing his/her considerations in the exposure/pp choices. And then to read a few pages from a photo mag editor, a commercial photographer, etc who talk about the technical areas of the photograph and how their exposure/pp choices would differ. Maybe this already exists somewhere here or elsewhere.
Maybe there are other ways to 'preserve our perception of quality', if you even feel it is worth it. I would like to know.
Sr. Member
Posts: 5468
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #17 on:
March 20, 2012, 12:08:51 PM »
Quote from: bwana on March 20, 2012, 11:32:57 AM
When you made a print, sure you had to deal with the viewing conditions, but that did not really change the way you printed the image, let alone influence your decision on the camera you used to capture the image.
Maybe not for you but it sure did for me....when I put together print shows at agencies and galleries, I decided what images to use and how to print them based on the size of the print and the venue.
Look, if all you want to do is show a photo on an iPhone, the iPhone 4 is a pretty good camera. Why do you suppose Nikon is releasing the D800 36MP DSLR if they didn't think people wanted more resolution?
If anything, to your thread title, I think standards are being raised...the public is becoming more sophisticated and more demanding. Anybody enjoy watching LO DEF TV channels these days? They suck...3 million iPad HDs in three days? People must like the display (ok, and the other cool stuff).
Naw, no reason to think standards are getting lowered. No evidence...
Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
Posts: 5720
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #18 on:
March 20, 2012, 12:29:56 PM »
Quote from: John Nollendorfs on March 20, 2012, 11:26:24 AM
... Gates's belief that people would someday decorate their homes with a revolving display of digital artwork using digital frames...
I am glad Bill and I are on the same page!
Ooops... scratch that! I should have said "on the same display"
Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
Posts: 5720
Re: is the declining prevalence of the print lowering standards?
Reply #19 on:
March 20, 2012, 12:38:06 PM »
Quote from: John R Smith on March 20, 2012, 05:22:19 AM
If printing is supposedly in decline then the statistics from this Forum do not support the argument.
This, the printing section, has 6,921 topics (the most of any section) and 61,130 posts (soon to be 61,131
), which puts it in second place in terms of activity on LL...
But, but... John... if you take out ZoranC-related posts, the forum activity drops precipitously. Remove all other "my print is too dark" posts and the forum activity fades into... well, darkness
Besides, using your yardstick (i.e., forum activity) would mean that medium format is the most prevalent today. Or that stamper and I are the most influential photographers of our times (judging by our forum activity)
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'Rhett' | Extra Slim Fit, Italian Virgin Wool Small Check Sport Coat by BOSS
Model Rhett2 50262753 Medium Blue
DetailsExtra slim fit
Notched lapels
Two-button front
Contrast design undercollar
Slant welt pocket on chest
Chest pocket lining can be turned up to become attached solid grey pocket square
Two flap pockets at waist
Four-button detail on sleeves
Interior pockets: One open welt pocket with trim, one welt pocket with button closure and trim, one open pen pocket with trim
Double back vent
Back length: 73 cm (28.7 in.)
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Made in Italy
DescriptionThis extra slim fit sport coat by BOSS is crafted in Italy's lauded Lanificio Tesse Biella mill from 100% Italian virgin wool. Finished with a small check design, notched lapels and double back vents complete this sophisticated look. The chest pocket lining can be turned up to become an attached solid grey pocket square for added style.
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Material & care
Material information: 100% Virgin wool, Lining: 100% Viscose, Facing: 100% Cotton
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Robbery Suspect Identified Through DNA Evidence:
On June 28, 2011 at approximately 11:00am, three unidentified males entered David Harvey Jewelers, 995 Post Rd., carrying sledgehammers and wearing ski masks. The subjects proceeded to smash several glass display cases and removed numerous high-end watches valued at over $422,000.00.
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The Darien Police Department Is Now Hiring!
BENEFITS INCLUDE: 20 Year Retirement With No Age Limitation, Paid Vacation, 12 Paid Holidays, Group Life Insurance, Pension Plan, Group Health Insurance, Sick Leave, Tuition Reimbursement. CANDIDATE REQUIREMENTS: POSTC certified police officers who have maintained their certification for a minimum of two consecutive years. Candidates must have earned a minimum
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Is Your House A Target For Burglary While You're On Vacation?
An empty house is a tempting target for a burglar so make sure you do your best to have your home look occupied while you are away. There are several measures you can take to protect your home from a would-be burglar:
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Darien Police Partners With Local Organizations To Launches "Project Lifesaver"
The Darien Police Department has recently launched Project Lifesaver. This nationwide program is designed to bring people who are at risk of wandering, particularly the elderly, including those with Alzheimers, Autism, Down Syndrome and Dementia home safely.
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Drunk Driver Nearly Runs Over Two Darien Officers
At approximately 11:40 hrs the Darien Police Patrol Division received a radio broadcast regarding a green Nissan pick-up truck which was driving erratically. Two Darien police officers were on special duty traffic assignments on Leroy Ave. near West Ave. when they observed the vehicle traveling south toward them. Both officers were wearing Hi-Viz yellow uniform shirts identifying them as
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Narcotics Arrest: Darien Man Crashes Car, Flees, Crashes Again
On May 17, 2014 John Tyler Keegan, age 22 of 2 Berry Ln. Darien, was involved in a minor motor vehicle accident on the Post Rd near Weeds Landing. Keegan never stopped his vehicle and left the scene of the accident. An officer nearby was given the description of Keegans vehicle and observed it traveling east on the Post Rd. The officer activated his emergency lights and attempted to pull Keegan
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Darien Officers Fight With & Taser Naked Man Who Breaks Into Home
Darien, CT: At approximately 4:30pm on June 30, 2014, the Darien Police Department received numerous reports of a naked male running through yards on Stephen Mather Road. The male was reportedly attempting to gain entry to several residences. Officers arrived on scene and observed a white male without clothes on in the area of Maplewood Drive. Upon seeing officers the male ran off and a foot
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Town is seeking a certified Police/EMS/Fire Telecommunicator
The Town of Darien, CT is seeking a certified Police/EMS/Fire Telecommunicator. Applicants must be non-smokers and hold a current certification as a State of Connecticut Telecommunicator. A complete job description can be found on the Town of Darien website under Human Resources.
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Victim & Witness Notifcation Services
U.S. immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), Homeland Security Investigations (HIS), is committed to protecting the public and ensuring that the rights of victims are observed.
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Bookkeeper Arrested For Embezzling From Veteran's Services Fund:
Darien, CT- In late May of 2014, The Darien Police Department received an embezzlement complaint involving an employee at the National Veteran Services Fund (N.V.S.F.). The President of the organization stated that irregularities in the companys financial statements were discovered by an accounting firm and were brought to his attention. It was quickly determined that the organizations
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Is a "Utility Worker" knocking at your front door? A burglar may be at your back door:
Distraction burglary is a crime in which elderly persons are often the targets but not always. The perpetrator seeks to draw a resident out of the house or into the basement on a pretext. While the resident is occupied, an accomplice enters the home and steals valuables such as money and jewelry. Thieves may also take
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Reward Offered In Robbery of People's United Bank
The Darien Police Detective Division is seeking assistance in a bank robbery investigation. On Wednesday April 30, 2014 at approximately 2:00pm, the Peoples United Bank located at 25 Old Kings Hwy North, was robbed. The suspect entered the bank using an open umbrella to shield himself from vestibule and ATM cameras.
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Is Heroin In Darien?
Definitely, according to Sergeant Jeremiah Marron of the Darien Police Department Selective Enforcement Unit, Not only is Heroin sold and used in Darien, but its severely addictive properties are motivating crimes such as burglary, larceny, theft from vehicles, and recently even Home Invasion. "Heroin is pummeling the Northeast, leaving addiction, overdoses and fear in its wake," said James Hunt of the Drug Enforcement Administration's New York Office.
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Parent of Darien High School Student Falls Victim To Kidnapping Scam
Darien, CT Daily phone scam attempts targeting residents of Darien and surrounding towns are occurring at an alarming rate. This afternoon a town resident and parent of a Darien High School student unfortunately became the latest addition to a substantial list of victims. Two other would-be victims reported incidents today however investigation revealed no financial loss was incurred.
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Richmond's sugary beverage tax lost big, how's SF different?
What's old is new again, the saying goes.
And the saying definitely applies to the hotly followed sugary beverage tax resolution, introduced at today's Board of Supervisors meeting.
The two cents per-ounce tax on sugary beverages would be levied at the point of distribution, with the ultimate goal of reducing the consumption of sodas and other sugary drinks to combat obesity in San Francisco. The tax, sponsored by Supervisors Scott Wiener, Eric Mar, Malia Cohen John Avalos and David Chiu, is similar to a resolution made two years ago in Richmond, CA.
But Richmond ultimately voted down Measure N by 66 percent, the voters overwhelmingly saying "no" to the tax increase.
Some of the players in San Francisco's sugar war are the same as those in Richmond.
In 2012, the American Beverage Association hired Chuck Finnie of San Francisco public relations group BMWL and Partners. The association funded the "Community Coalition Against Beverage Taxes," which reached out to Latino communities and others, saying it was a tax on the poor.
Now Finnie is back as spokesperson for Stop Unfair Beverage Taxes -- Coalition for an Affordable City, here in San Francisco. Its website is strewn with exclamations, sounding the warning knell of doom: "A 2 cent per-ounce tax… would add $0.40 to the cost of bottle of soda and nearly $3.00 to the cost of a 12-pack!"
One of the taxes' sponsors, Supervisor Malia Cohen, disagrees with that rationale.
"It's a shallow argument, that it's a regressive tax on poor people. At first blush yes you could say that," she said. "But a true cost benefit analysis, what is it costing poor people? Literally it's costing them their lives."
Bayview resident w/ diabetes says "you can find soda at any liquor store... finding an apple is hard." @ericmar415 pic.twitter.com/f37iR1lo2E
— Joe Fitz Rodriguez (@FitzTheReporter) February 1, 2014
Some of the articles on the coalition's media page have little to do with beverages, with one discussing San Francisco as one of "America's 5 Last-Affordable Housing Markets."
Go figure: they're playing off of our fears.
Finnie sent a PDF highlighting a coalition of 720 businesses, playing up the local angle. But on the bottom of their website is the tagline "Paid for by the American Beverage Association."
"They've started early with bogus community groups," Sup. Mar told us. And this wouldn't be their first rodeo.
In Richmond the beverage association spent $2.6 million to combat Measure N, according to campaign filings. That's driven Sups. Wiener and Mar to get into hustle-mode to raise more money.
"The were the canary, they went first," Wiener told the Guardian, in a visit to our offices to speak about the measure. "We've learned you can't do a $40,000 campaign against an opponent like the beverage industry."
Jeff Ritterman, a cardiologist and former Richmond City Council member, was a lead proponent of the Measure N campaign in 2012. He's another actor from that campaign that's back now too, helping the supervisors craft their new strategy.
Last time around they were outspent, Ritterman admits. But campaign money is only one way San Francisco is taking a different tack in the upcoming sugar battle.
Cardiologist and former Richmond City Council member Jeff Ritterman, at the San Francisco sugary beverage tax campaign kickoff party Saturday.
The supervisors are also proposing to dedicate the estimated $30 million in revenue that the tax will generate to a specific purpose. The funding would be divided between the SFUSD, the Department of Public Health and the Recreation and Park Department for a mix of outdoor activities and nutrition education. In contrast, Measure N left allocation of new funding open-ended.
Ritterman told us that not identifying what the taxes on sugar would be used for was one of Richmond's major missteps. Opponents honed in on it like an open wound and hammered away.
In Richmond, "they told people on the telephone I'd use it for trips around the world. It got as crazy as that," Ritterman said. "You get more support when you show you'll use it for children's health and physical activity."
Well hey, since the use of tax funds collected were a major concern for Finnie's group last time around, now that it's fixed he should be happy, right?
"No," he told the Guardian, flatly. "We disagree that singling out sugar sweetened beverages for special taxation has any merit whatsoever."
Listen to an audio interview with Jeff Ritterman, as he answers the question "what's different about San Francisco's sugary beverage tax campaign?"
We went on a bit of a tangent, asking the next obvious question -- should government have a role in pricing for sugary beverages at all? No, Finnie said. But what about corn subsidies, leading to cheaply produced high-fructose corn syrup and even cheaper sugary drinks in the first place?
"I'm happy to talk about the proposed tax here in San Francisco," Finnie said. "You're getting into a realm that I don't know anything about."
Dr. Maa says weight control surgery boomed from when he started as a surgeon to now #sugarybeveragetax https://t.co/6DUa4V3DWp
— Joe Fitz Rodriguez (@FitzTheReporter) February 1, 2014
What Finnie does know about is creating a public relations maelstrom, and he won in Richmond on the beverage association's behalf.
But San Francisco supervisors are seeking to be more strategic than Richmond in this year's sugar war, raising more money, crafting the legislation more specifically, and building a broader coalition. So far, faith-based groups, pediatricians, nurses, the teachers union, the school district and others have backed the tax measure.
We'll see if the supervisors can win the day in November.
SF is full of affluent people who drink guava juice or wheetgrass juice or fair trade coffee or fine wines or artisnal bottled water.
So they care less if soda is taxed because a soda tax, like tobacco tax and the lottery, is a tax on poor stupid fat people.
Our progressives want to coerce the citizens who they claim to speak for to act right, while proclaiming these same citizens are too stupid to think for themselves.
Not agreeing with invasive government is being a flunky for the soda overlords, not agreeing with the invasive government around gross naked dudes is standing up to the man.
Scott Weiner and Malia Cohen are not progressive.
I, on the hand, am. I'd vote against it. It's stupid.
On the other hand, if the trolls piss me off enough, I'll vote yes just to spite them.
Two cents doesn't even make it worth getting worked up over.
Two cents per ounce, marcos.
Look, this doesn't affect me one bit. Nobody in my family drinks soda. Not a drop. We're lucky that we just don't like the stuff. But this is a huge, regressive sales tax that hits hardest for the poor.
As a progressive, my philosophy is basically that government should be there for people when they need and want it, and leave them the hell alone when they don't. We all do stupid/unhealthy/dangerous things, but we only punish the stupid/unhealthy/dangerous things done by people with not a lot of political power. A much less hypocritical approach would be to acknowledge that we all do something stupid/unhealthy/dangerous, collect the taxes we need to mitigate the harm, and come together as a community and take care of each other when we need it.
This approach, by contrast, just plays into the hands of the right who wail about the "nanny state" and government overreach, and alienates potential allies among what you call "non-combatants" who might otherwise benefit from progressive policies. Instead, the right and the left give them a one-two punch. The conservatives take away their food stamps and unemployment benefits (with the help of liberals who call it a good compromise), and then the liberals come and impose a $1.35 tax on every 2-liter bottle of soda (with the help of all-too-eager conservatives).
But it's all for their own good, you see! It's insulting is what it is.
And then you wonder why people stay home and don't vote?
OK, two cents per ounce is different. Too bad that none of the development plans for the poorer areas of town where people are more likely to face these health problems had any provisions for healthy grocery stores so that people could make good choices instead of being punished for making the only choices available--bad choices.
city just because it is poor, if they do not want to open there. Best you can do is offer tax breaks.
are you against cigarette taxes? if not, what is the distinction you'd make between the two?
I voted against every cigarette tax I've come across. Like with soda, it doesn't affect me because I don't smoke, but it's the principle. I don't like "sin taxes" and I don't like regressive taxes. We all do things that are stupid/unhealthy and/or dangerous. Instead of picking and choosing who to punish for their bad habits and who to leave alone, I propose an alternative: just leave everybody alone as far as punishing things that harm no one but themselves. Have everyone pay their taxes (because we do live in civilization rather than the jungle), and fund harm reduction programs of various sorts. Those who can pay more would pay more, and those who need more would get more. If it were up to me, I'd replace all sales taxes with a combination of property and income taxes.
property taxes with a VAT and more sin taxes.
I want to shift more of the tax burden to the rich because they can pay more, while you want to shift more of the burden to the poor, because... ...???
possible. Polluting tax policy with envy isn't a prudent was to secure revenues and manage budgets.
unless it is not.
Being opposed to invasive busy body government is bad, unless it is not.
You get only one vote, no matter how much noise you make.
Politics is the art of organizing to break through government tyranny and fight against the oppressors who rule behind the scenes. Greg comes across as a very reasoned, effective advocate, a necessary ingredient for successful organizing and focus. He's about the only reason I read the comments section, hoping I'll find one of his thoughtful posts among the dross that's usually posted here. Talking with others who read the SFBG website, I'm not alone in the assessment of Greg's often excellent analysis and explanatory skills. The fact that you and others constantly use ad hominem attacks against him speaks volumes as to his effectiveness.
I'm with Greg. It's more "liberal" government gone bad, punishing people rather than working with them to help curtail destructive behaviors. I also think it's basically a regressive tax on the poor. But with Wiener pushing it, that's always going to be the case.
What he really needs to do is to be able to persuade moderates and conservatives, and I have seen zero evidence of that happening.
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Why are you guys framing this as a "Scott Weiner thing"? Him AND Eric Mar are pushing for this. They both came up with different proposals at the same time and just merged them into one. It's not a moderate/progressive thing, it's a nanny state issue because both of them think people are too stupid/ignorant to be able to decide on food choices for themselves (just like the Happy Meal toy ban).
Yet that's not enough. We need a tax to fund the "mission" of non-profits who are here to tell minorities (because that's who's the fattest) how to take care of themselves. Here's a hint - put down the Jarritos and pig's feet.
between 3 departments for health, health education and recreation because 8.6 Billion dollars a year (the budget) is not enough to fund these programs?
between 3 departments for health, health education and recreation because 8.6 Billion dollars a year (the budget) is not enough to fund these programs?
San Fransisco is not Richmond, this is why Big Soda will lose, Yes they will lie and misdirect, hire PR and marketing firms, spend $millions against this 2 cent tax but San Fransisco is not Richmond, Big Soda will lose.
It's 2 cents PER OUNCE. I guess you conveniently forgot that part.
So the cases of coke I buy regularly on sale for 25 cents per can will now cost 50 cents per can. Ouch. The case price will go up by almost $6.00. That's more than I pay for a case of coke on sale now! Double ouch.
I may drink too much coke but my BMI is quite healthy. It's amazing how this thing called exercise can keep those calories off the waistline. I guess it's too much effort to teach nutrition and exercise to people, when it's easier to just bash them over the head with regressive taxes.
It definitely makes sense to do more shopping in Daly City, just to save on soft-drink purchases. Many shoppers will do their $200 a week grocery shopping there as well. Thanks for increasing car trips supervisors and pushing more sales activity to other cities!
Many of the BOS members may be very sharp lawyers, but there's a law called "unintended consequences" they should research.
You're absolutely right that when it comes to health and maintaining a healthy weight, there are many factors involved – including overall diet and exercise. Education that teaches this balance can make a substantive difference, whereas regulation will fail to make a measurable impact. The fact is no one source of calories is the culprit driving complex health conditions; myriad variables are involved, including ones we can't control, such as genetics, age, etc. Also, you hit on an important point regarding the unintended consequences of such legislation. Not only would it drive up costs for consumers, it would hurt local businesses too. At the end of the day, citizens are perfectly capable of deciding for themselves what goes in their grocery cart – and education can help them make informed, balanced choices. Beverages can certainly be a part of this balance. - Maureen Beach, American Beverage Association
it would be a the BOS vs big publishing?
You're stupid.
This might be one of the dumbest taxes (even for SF) I've heard proposed - for the reasons already cited above.
But if sticking a bunch of taxes on the ballot helps to kill any VLF increase - all for putting this on the ballot.
whining Richmond authoritarian doesn't start talking when this page loads.
It's just another way for the left to punish colored people of color for not being white.
and since soda is cheaper down there, why not pick up the rest of the groceries. So long sales tax revenue.
I don't drink soda, I hate it when I see people feeding to their young children (most often when I am riding MUNI). I am against this because it will hurt the poor and people of means will simply shop outside the hallowed 7X7.
Serramonte, here I come.
If the Board of Supervisors was serious about preventing obesity and other health problems, the first thing they would do would be to ban all processed foods in The City. Then they would set up a County-run program that would replace SNAP and WIC and all the other failed attempts at food distribution with a simple program that provides cheap or free prepared meals and/or a delivery of a box of healthy food to anyone that wants it, even if they live in Pacific Heights. Enough fresh produce enters The City each day to feed everyone who needs a meal. Free Health and Wellness Centers where people could learn how to take care of their bodies, rehabilitate injuries, take tai chi and yoga classes, and do cardio and strength training would help mitigate the health problems caused by traditional diets and non-exercise.
A tax on soft drinks will do nothing to stop obesity, tooth decay, heart disease, and the plethora of other negative health effects caused by sugar. This tax will undoubtedly be politically popular among "progressives," and attacked by "conservatives," setting up a straw man that will be burned on the pyre of public opinion. It may result in the perception that certain politicians care about the poor. But in fact, by the time these taxes are implemented and collected, and "programs" are set up, most of the people using these products will have serious health problems, or will have died from them. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
In Last few years several hundreds lost their jobs during inflation. Such taxes directly impact the general public.So its better to implement them to the richer person on another way.
Your English As a Second Language classes are coming along nicely, Margaret.
insulting people who are less sophisticated does not help us move forward. Margret has a good point.
And an asset to SFBG. Too bad you lack a sense of humor.
If someone have few grammatical mistakes in his/her English then it never mean to take the right of freedom of speak. None have right to seize the rights of other. Now coming to the articles. If the more taxes is implemented on the beverages then Shift on the smoothies they are not only the best way to save the money but also will added a healthy diet to your daily diet. Smoothies are easy to make
Ask the Content Writers to Comment can relief yourself.
when republican governor pete wilson instituted the "snack tax" on certain kinds of food, it was lefties like the BG who screamed bloody murder.
I guess when you have young staff who don't think the world existed before they are born writing for you, such facts vanish down the memory hole.
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Detroit Lions
Travis Lewis - #50 - LB
|6' 2"/ 222 lbs.
|San Antonio, TX
|Years played
|2012, 7th round, 16th pick by Lions
Hits keep coming for Lions' WR depth
The Lions have used second-round picks on WRs in back-to-back drafts, but could the position again be an offseason need?
Marijuana charge against Lions DT Fairley dismissed
A misdemeanor marijuana charge against Lions DT Nick Fairley was dismissed on Tuesday.
Lions place WR Young on I.R.
The Lions placed WR Titus Young on injured reserve and signed S Tyrell Johnson and WR Kris Durham.
NFC North Spin cycle: Bears' skid is boosting Packers
The Packers have nosed back into the division lead after a victory over the Vikings and a Bears defeat at home to the Seahawks.
Lions lose WR Broyles to torn ACL
Lions WR Ryan Broyles tore the ACL in his right knee in Sunday's loss to the Colts and will undergo surgery, head coach Jim Schwartz announced.
Colts stun Lions on Luck's game-winner
Andrew Luck threw a 14-yard touchdown pass to Donnie Avery with no time left to lift the Colts to a dramatic 35-33 comeback win over the Lions.
Lions DT Suh fined $30,000 for kick
The NFL fined Lions DT Ndamukong Suh $30,000 for his kick to the groin of Texans QB Matt Schaub in last Thursday's game.
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Lions can't get out of their own way
After spending Thanksgiving on the sidelines at Ford Field, PFW publisher Hub Arkush offers his thoughts on two of the game's more controversial plays.
NFC North Spin cycle: Vikings can't stop Bears
The Bears are back in control of the NFC North after beating the Vikings soundly and watching the Giants shut down the Packers on Sunday night.
NFL will not suspend Lions DT Suh; fine possible
The NFL will not suspend Lions DT Ndamukong Suh for Thursday's incident involving Texans QB Matt Schaub, according to league spokesman Greg Aiello.
No changes to schedule in Weeks 14, 15
The NFL announced the Week 14 and Week 15 schedules on Monday and there will be no changes.
NFL to examine replay rule from Lions-Texans game
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Schwartz's mistake aids Texans in wild 34-31 win
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The Packers ground out a win at Detroit, leaving the Lions with plenty of work to do to get back into the playoff race.


text:
By Rebecca Onion
Marlon Brando dropped this battered address book on the stage of New York's Barrymore Theatre while appearing in "A Streetcar Named Desire" in 1949.
The loss of the book must have been significant to the young actor. Brando scrawled on the flyleaf: "On bended knee I beg you to return this. I lost eight others already and if I lose this I'll just drop dead!" Underneath this plea, he wrote an address - "47 W. 47th N.Y.C." - which he then crossed out and updated with "37 W. 52."
Sadly for latter-day snoops, Brando mostly stuck to first names in recording his contacts ("Janice," "Sandra," "Kay"). Notables listed by both first and last name include Ellen Adler (famed acting teacher Stella's daughter and Brando's sometime girlfriend) and "Jimmy Baldwin" (the writer James Baldwin, who was Brando's longtime friend).
The play's production manager, Robert Downing, picked the book up off the stage and - for reasons lost to history - kept it, despite Brando's desperate note. The book ended up at the University of Texas at Austin's Harry Ransom Center with the rest of Downing's papers.
Thanks to Helen Baer and Jennifer Tisdale of the Harry Ransom Center.


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Farmall Cub Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.
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14 posts • Page 1 of 1
' 52 CUB running good in this fine clean up weather. However.... still trying to figure out why ammeter shows in" CHARGE " area when the lights are turned " ON. " Also, when starting, the starter sometimes hesitates before cranking starts. A few times it "grunts", then it either turns over, or maybe not. Battery and coil are new. Thought's ??
Re: ammeter
The starter itself or its connections back to the battery need serviced. Try servicing all the connections first.
Does the ammeter move to charge when the lights are turned on with the engine stopped or running?
Re: ammeter
6 volt electrical system. Battery positive ground?
I have an excuse. CRS.
Re: ammeter
Take the band off the starter and see if the brushes are shot if not broke in half. Also could be cable time as well.
Re: ammeter
yes, 6 volt, positive ground, and ammeter shows charge when lights are turned on and engine stopped or running. my son - in law put a new coil on. what happens if wires could be on backwards. I will CHECK OUT THE STARTER as suggested. thank you.
Re: ammeter
What happens when the wires are reversed is the ammeter will show a charge when the lights are on.
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Re: ammeter
I read that as the wires at the ignition coil could be reversed. Reversing the wires on the coil will not have a different effect in the electrical generating circuit or direction the amp meter needle moves.
Was the amp meter changed out or the wires on the amp meter removed and then reinstalled?
Multimeter at battery. Check to see that the generator is charging correctly as per the battery polarity. Battery positive terminal grounded. If so exchange wires on the back of the amp gauge.
The other thing you could do is to negative ground the battery and then repolarize the regulator.
I have an excuse. CRS.
Re: ammeter
Does the ammeter needle move at all or does it stay in one position?
Re: ammeter
ammeter needle does move around. sometimes to charge. sometimes slight discharge. battery is new so should'nt show too much change. maybe it is just cleaning up the connection's on everything. I do wonder though why needle jumps way over to charge when lights are turned on.
Re: ammeter
If the power supply to the light switch is on the battery connection at the starter, that would make the generator (with engine running) increase the amperage in order to power the lights without draining the battery. And the ammeter would show that. But if the engine was stopped, that hookup would not move the ammeter at all if the lights were turned on- because the current is not flowing through the ammeter. Normally, turning on the lights with the engine running causes the ammeter to show a lesser charge rate (with the 6 volt systems) because the generator has limited output amperes and the lights are using most of that before it gets to the ammeter.
With the proper (original schematic) electrical system, turning on the lights with the engine stopped shows a significant discharge rate on the ammeter.
I suspect that someone prior to your ownership did some creative (that is not a compliment) alterations to the electrical system.
The original Cub wiring was such that the ammeter shows net amperes going to and from the battery, not necessarily what the generator was producing at the moment.
Luck favors those who are prepared
Re: ammeter
The owner of this tractor has not posted back regarding findings/progress, if any. Thinking about this again, the power supply connection for the lights, and perhaps the ignition, could have been switched to the battery post on the starter OR to the post on the ammeter that connects to the battery post to recharge the battery. Might be as simple as just moving a wire terminal from one post on the ammeter to the other. Evidently his tractor does not have a voltage regulator with a lighting terminal in use.
Since he reports no electrical problems at this time other than the ammeter readings, the system apparently works for properly recharging the battery. And could continue to do so for a long time into the future. But the operator is not getting the best information from the ammeter about the present performance of the system.
An analog voltmeter at the battery can test for proper voltage output of the generator (and regulator, if there is one).
Luck favors those who are prepared
Re: ammeter
Been kind of busy lately, and missed the beginning of this thread. If the ammeter shows charge when you speed the engine up, but drops back to the center or close to it when you turn the lights on, that is pretty much normal. The lights draw approximately 2.8 amps each, so if all are on bright, you are drawing 8.4 amps. Standard on a cub generator if they are in top shape is only 11 amps on the earlier ones, less if the brushes are worn or out of adjustment, etc. So you should not expect to see more than a 2 amp or so charge when running at full throttle with the lights on, and that is not much needle movement.
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government
to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the
government lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." Patrick Henry
Re: ammeter
Thank you BUSDRIVER and ALL others. Gave up and gave '52 cub with ammeter questions to local mechanic. If solution is noteworthy, will post his findings.
Re: ammeter
I hope it all works out well. Many of the mechanics today were born long after alternators became the norm, witnessed by the fact that this Cub owner started out posting about his alternator.
Unless the mechanic is familiar with the generator/cutout/regulator systems, he will either just give up, just start swapping parts, or spend time educating himself. The tuition bill can be steep.
Luck favors those who are prepared
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Dear Members,
In order to show respect towards someones wishes, regarding if they want to get surprised by the new issue of the manga, please place the proper "Spoiler" prefix on your thread, whenever you create one that contains any spoilers. If you do decide to post any spoiler at all, while creating the thread, in the drop-down box before the thread title, again, please make sure you selected "Spoiler" as the thread prefix.
Thank you, NarutoBase Staff
This changes nothing!!!! they still have to fight
Good chapter hope next weeks is just as good
5/5 It was an awesome chapter and it is clear that Itachi is a boss and also a very good man :D
Indeed. I agree with anyone who 5/5's this chapter
Wonderful introspect into Itachi's mind and it will be interesting to see how this plays out on Sasuke's.
To those saying 'OLD INFO LAME CHAPTER"
Shut up, no it wasn't. 'old info' - one thing is knowing and seeing little flashbacks into the massacre. And another to get new story and reason for it from the main source (Itachi), even Shisui and Danzo had some new information.
The panel with Itachi tearing up as he fulfills his duty was emotionally charged, next to Naruto meeting Kushina. It was a great ending to Itachi's legacy in the manga so far.
If you hate this chapter, you have to be trying.
I'm new here, and so far i've learned who to ignore.
But i'm glad that everyone loves this chapter and manga. Been following it nicely, and it hasn't dulled out too bad. Except for the prolongued Kabuto flashbacks (but even then, they built character).
Cheers. 5/5, to this chapter.
ill admit im touch at itachis story and point of view of the genocide of the uchihas but seriously WTF MAN WE WAITED TWO WEEKS FOR FLASHBACK NO JUTSU/TALK NO JUTSU:mad:
I am not sure if it was written but at what point did itachi kill shisui uchiha to get the mangekyou or did he unlock it without killing him.
Originally Posted by Uchiha Usman
OMG! ONE OF A KIND, AWESOME CHAPTER :overjoy:
definietely 5/5
i was waiting to see how the massacre happened in itachi's perpective.......and now its finally done ..n damn that danzo..it was like the uchiha were gonna go a rampage like hard out ahaha
and to those complaining ....STOP COMPLAINING! :mad:
we did wait for 2 weeks and we got a really good chapter..and your question about is madara gonna dissapear has been anwsered..n we got to see tat naruto shall start battling serious against tobi now alongside kakashi n guy
.................................................. ......................................
did anyone notice where is killer bee sting like a beee??? :shrug:
naruto was on his 8 tailed forms head, i think he jumped from it too.
brilliant chapter, loved how Itachi did not actually poked his head, so sad.. I really cant say what is going to happen to sasuke,but since Ive never been a sasuke fan I would assume the whole thing would mess up his head even more..:shrug: oh of course kishi troll at its best ; )
OMG man, I'm ****ing crying over here!
Fantastic chapter.
I don't want Madara to disappear but really I think it will be for the better. I mean figures like Rikodu Sennin, Hashirama and Madara are legendary. And Madara has both the Rinnegan and EMS it will be crazy to show that someone actually beating Madara.
I knew from the beginning after seeing Naruto being beaten up by the Edo tensei Jinchuuriki's and Tobi that Sasuke will help stopping the war, it was very obvious.
so sad! Let's hope that after Itachi's words maybe Sasuke will see it his way. If not let's hope Naruto has enough energy to fight Sasuke after they take care of Tobi. :mugi:
HOMOS who were touched by that ,Sasuke fanboys ,is the really no extent to your crush on sasuke ??? SICK !!!
5/5. I cried I was really moved
Great chapter, it conveyed a lot of emotion for me to finally see the last words of Itachi Uchiha. Such a greatly developed character. The only thing we have left is to see what happens with Madara Uchiha and Tobi. Madara looks like hes about to be released, but who knows if he has a trick up his sleeve? Tobi is lucked out of Jinchuuriki to use so maybe a one on one battle with Naruto will finally reveal his true identity. As for Sasuke, Kabuto is still around him so he has to probably deal with him eventually. I only wonder if Kabuto will forever be trapped in Izanami since he doesnt seem to want to accept his fate. 5/5 Cant wait for next week.
Awesome.just awesome.it was worth of 2 week's waiting.and itachi's cry was awesome.i just love that guy.and i also don't know what sasuke will do.
Danzou and Tobi's story is far different from Itachi's..
tobi cant summon the beasts without edo tense ?
Last edited by shadpw; 06-20-2012 at 04:21 PM.
Touching chapter. 5/5
Very good chapt' 4/5; Hoping for somemore action nextweek & also finding out who toby is, real soon!
Originally Posted by Shadz4zulfaa
HOMOS who were touched by that ,Sasuke fanboys ,is the really no extent to your crush on sasuke ??? SICK !!!
You're sick
Great chapter this week. I like how Kishi only gives you bits and pieces of certain storylines and then brings it all together in a great climax. It sucks that this will be the end of Itachi but I'm thinking the real Madara will somehow escape the Edo technique.
I don't want to sound like i'm whining but another Talk-no-jutsu!!!! I get it but where the hell is the blood shed?
Really like the chapter..
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Back in the saddle
Farmall Cub Forum -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.
Moderator: Team Cub
Forum rules
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Back in the saddle
On Nov. 28 I had the left hip replaced. During rehab, Dad's health took a turn for the worse. He is out of the woods -For Now- but still in the heavy brush, if you know what I mean.
My Brother is down from the Glens Falls NY area, so I took a breather from being at the hospital. I needed a distraction.
When I got up at 10 or 11 today, it was so nice out I decided to go to the barn. I had bought 1 cub, and traded for another just before my surgery. The one I traded for was not running. I decided today was a good day to see why.
First thing I found was bad electrical connections. Fixed that.
got it to start, but anything above an idle, it would die. Diagnosed a couple fuel problems. First was the old fuel cap=plugged. Next i cleaned and checked the fuel bowl assembly. That was ok. Had plenty of flow through the line, and a steady but slow stream out of the carb bowl. I decided to remove the carb and put it on the bench. Cleaned it good, removed the float and needle valve, everything looked good, BUT- I could barely blow air through it. HMM
The screen in the intake looked good, but I decided to remove it. It was almost plugged from the back side. Aha. I reinstalled the carb, gave it a turn with the hand crank and she fired right off and ran pretty good. I took her for a ride around the property, and just as I got back to where I had been working on it, it quit and I had smoke rolling out from behind the dash. I quickly flipped the switch off, but smoke kept rolling. I pulled the cover off the battery box, checked for heat, then pulled the - battery terminal off. She quit smoking thankfully before the flames started.
It has a funky 12v alt conversion, and funky aftermarket switches. I guess i will be rewireing it. The wire from the charging system to the battery is a 10 ga. but it is now toast.
A good day playing with the cub, and a much needed distraction from the last couple weeks with Dad, and my hip replacement.
I am ready for lifes challenges again, and now that I am walking some without the cane, I hope to get some more cub time in the near future.
Re: Back in the saddle
Glad to hear you are recovering. By the time spring gets here you should be 100% and can really get after those repairs. Good thing even with slower mobility you could still get it shutdown before it really got ugly! Good luck to you and be careful not to over do it!
Re: Back in the saddle
Good news, Dale. Always good to get back in the saddle.
"The probability of life originating from accident is comparable to the probability of the unabridged dictionary resulting from an explosion in a printing shop." Edwin Conklin, biologist
Re: Back in the saddle
I remember when I was in high school my father helped develop those hip replacement pieces. Massachusetts General Hospital would bring him human leg bones...and the rest is history. Glad you are able to walk and get back to poking around with Cubs.
Re: Back in the saddle
Yay Dale!
Glad to hear you're getting better. Keep it under 60 !
REMEMBER: Keep it correct or you may face the
Re: Back in the saddle
Great news
David Dee Mock-Leonard
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints
Re: Back in the saddle
I am glad to know that you are getting back to good health and also that you Dad has improved.
I started out with nothing and now I only have half of that left !
Re: Back in the saddle
Bout time you got off your butt you ole upstater.
Glad to see you are out and about.
"Life's tough.It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
" We hang petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office."
- Aesop
Re: Back in the saddle
Glad to hear you are up and about. Do you think you will be up to attending the DSCF? Stan
Since retirement, the things I miss most are the holidays!
Re: Back in the saddle
Not sure Stan. Playing it by ear. If i don't have a bunch of stuff sold that needs a ride on the express, I doubt i can afford it.
Re: Back in the saddle
Remember Dale I only pick on people that I like or think that I can run faster than.
"Life's tough.It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
" We hang petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office."
- Aesop
Re: Back in the saddle
I have thick skin Bill, and a fast dog.
Re: Back in the saddle
keep on truckin dale, good to hear your on the mend . coppersmythe................................................
Re: Back in the saddle
Glad to hear it, Dale. Medical technology today is so advanced. Glad it was your hip and not a knee. Contrary to what I previously believed, the hip replacement is an easier recovery than a knee. Candy has been through both knees and one hip replacement. The hip was done a second time as she had the recalled implant. I've learned alot through all of it and had none of the pain. Now, I am having knee problems but not to the extent of replacement. I'd like to stay away from it as long as I can.
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Re: Back in the saddle
Yep Denny, I had the other hip done 10 yrs ago, so knew what I was in for. If and when I ever need my knees done, I want both done at the same time. I would rather go through a lot of pain fast, than have it drag out twice as long.
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Extra-person charges may apply and vary depending on hotel policy.
Government-issued photo identification and a credit card or cash deposit are required at check-in for incidental charges.
Special requests are subject to availability upon check-in and may incur additional charges. Special requests cannot be guaranteed.
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- Airport shuttle fee: MYR 90 per vehicle (one way)
- Rollaway bed fee: MYR 150 per night
We should mention
A resort fee is included in the total price displayed.


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Grouper, Snowy – U.S.
Snowy Grouper are found in deep-water rocky habitats, from North Carolina to Brazil including the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean Sea. They are a long lived, slow growing species that changes sex (from females to males) as they grow, making them extremely vulnerable to fishing pressure.
In the U.S. South Atlantic, the abundance of Snowy Grouper has been low and the population overfished since the late 1980s. So far management measures aimed at rebuilding the Snowy Grouper population have been unsuccessful. In the U.S. Gulf of Mexico, Snowy Grouper has never been assessed so abundance is unknown.
Snowy Grouper are caught with hook and line gears and bottom longlines. Fishing with hook and line gears causes minimal habitat damage, while fishing with bottom longlines can cause moderate habitat damage. Some species of concern are caught in the fishery, including other depleted grouper species.
This fish may have high levels of mercury that could pose a health risk to adults and children. More info here about mercury in grouper. Check out our mercury in seafood section.