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Spoiler effect
The examples and perspective in this article deal primarily with the United States and do not represent a worldwide view of the subject. (November 2012) |
The spoiler effect is the effect of vote splitting between candidates or ballot questions[n 1] with similar ideologies. One spoiler candidate's presence in the election draws votes from a major candidate with similar politics thereby causing a strong opponent of both or several to win. The minor candidate causing this effect is referred to as a spoiler[n 2]. However, short of any electoral fraud, this presents no grounds for a legal challenge.
Relationship with other effects[edit]
The spoiler candidate takes votes away from a more viable[n 3] candidate or candidates, a common effect called vote splitting. Where one opposing candidate is ideologically or politically similar and therefore receives far fewer votes than other opposing candidates to the spoiler candidate, then the vote splitting has a spoiler effect.
In some cases, even though the spoiler candidate cannot win themselves, their influences upon the voters may allow the candidate to determine deliberately which of the more viable candidates wins the election — a situation known as a kingmaker scenario. In the first past the post electoral system this is particularly feasible where a spoiler candidate recommends tactical voting or runs on a false manifesto to bolster the prospects of their secretly preferred winning candidate, which in some jurisdictions and circumstances can amount to electoral fraud.[citation needed]
In a preferential voting system, a voter can feel more inclined to vote for a minor party or independent as their first choice and they can record a preference between the remaining candidates, whether they are in a major or established party or not. For example, voters for a minor left-wing candidate might select a major left-wing candidate as their second choice, thus minimizing the probability that their vote will result in the election of a right-wing candidate, or voters for an independent candidate perceived as libertarian, or simply as the voter prefers that ideology might select a particular libertarian candidate as their second choice, thus minimising the probability of an authoritarian candidate being elected. Approval voting and proportional representation systems can also reduce the spoiler effect.
One of the main functions of political parties is to mitigate the effect of spoiler-prone voting methods by winnowing on a local level the contenders before the election. Each party nominates at most one candidate per office since each party expects to lose if they nominate more than one.[n 4] In some cases, a party can expect to "lose" by "suffering a rival elected opponent" if they nominate more than zero, where two opponents exist and one is considered a candidate they can "work with" — a party may prefer the candidate who would win if the party nominates zero.[n 5]
Thus, empirical observations of the frequency of spoiled elections do not provide a good measure of how prone to spoiling a particular voting method is, since the observations omit the relevant information about potential candidates who did not run because of not wanting to spoil the election.
Mathematical definitions[edit]
Possible mathematical definitions for the spoiler effect include failure of the independence of irrelevant alternatives (IIA) axiom, and vote splitting.
Arrow's impossibility theorem states that rank-voting systems are unable to satisfy the independence of irrelevant alternatives criterion without exhibiting other undesirable properties as a consequence. However, different voting systems are affected to a greater or lesser extent by IIA failure. For example, instant runoff voting is considered to have less frequent IIA failure than First Past the Post (also known as Plurality Rule). The independence of Smith-dominated alternatives (ISDA) criterion is much weaker than IIA; unlike IIA, some ranked-ballot voting methods can pass ISDA.
A possible definition of spoiling based on vote splitting is as follows: Let W denote the candidate who wins the election, and let X and S denote two other candidates. If X would have won had S not been one of the nominees, and if (most of) the voters who prefer S over W also prefer X over W (either S>X>W or X>S>W), then S is a spoiler. Here is an example to illustrate: Suppose the voters' orders of preference are as follows:
The voters who prefer S over W also prefer X over W. W is the winner under Plurality Rule, Top Two Runoff, and Instant Runoff. If S is deleted from the votes (so that the 33% who ranked S on top now rank X on top) then X would be the winner (by 65% landslide majority). Thus S is a spoiler with these three voting methods.
Spoiler effect in American elections[edit]
Presidential elections[edit]
Bush, Gore, and Nader (2000 U.S. presidential election)[edit]
The 2000 U.S. Presidential election is often cited as an example of the spoiler effect. In that election, Al Gore, the Democratic candidate, received more popular votes than George W. Bush, the Republican candidate, but lost in the electoral college. In the state of Florida, the final certified vote count showed Bush with just 537 more votes than Gore.[1] Because Bush defeated Gore in Florida, he won the state, received more votes in the electoral college, and became president of the United States.
Gore supporters pointed out that, had candidate Ralph Nader, a liberal, not run in the election, the majority of the 97,421 votes he received in Florida would have been cast for Gore. Gore supporters contend that Nader's candidacy spoiled the election for Gore by taking away enough votes from Gore in Florida to swing the election to Bush. Their argument is bolstered by a poll of Nader voters, asking them for whom they would have voted had Nader not run, which said 45 percent of Nader voters would have voted for Gore, 27 percent would have voted for Bush, and the rest would not have voted.[2]
Nader himself and many of his supporters argued that most Nader voters would either have chosen another minor party candidate or abstained from voting, had Nader not been on the ballot. It should also be noted that all other third party candidates on the ballot in Florida received more than the 537 vote difference between Bush and Gore.[3] Still, some observers began to refer to the spoiler effect as the "Nader effect" after the 2000 election.[4] [5] [6]
Other alleged spoilers[edit]
These are third-party candidates who have been accused of denying victory to a major nominee in U.S. Presidential Elections:
Other elections[edit]
- In 1994 moderate Republican Marshall Coleman ran for the U.S. Senate as an independent, receiving over 11 percent of the vote in an election where Democrat Chuck Robb defeated Republican nominee Oliver North by only three percent of the vote.
- As a result of the 2011 Wisconsin protests and subsequent recall elections, the Wisconsin Republican Party has encouraged spoiler candidates to run in the recall elections on the Democrat ticket in order to force the Democrats into a Primary election. Republicans argued that this will even the playing field in the recalls, as incumbents facing recall did not have the time to campaign due to their work load in the state senate.[7]
Other countries[edit]
In New Zealand, there have been two notable cases of the spoiler effect. In the 1984 general election, the free-market New Zealand Party deliberately ran for office in order to weaken support for the incumbent Prime Minister Robert Muldoon. Later on, the 1993 general election saw the New Zealand Labour Party's vote split by The Alliance, which has been attributed to the vagaries of the first past the post electoral system. In response to these problems, New Zealand has since adopted the mixed-member proportional voting system.
In sports, the "spoiler effect" refers to a similar phenomenon, in which a team or individual has failed to win enough games or competitions to make the playoffs or qualification rounds like the finals, but affects the playoffs or finals anyway by beating a more successful team or individual before the end of the season. For example, a baseball team that is ten games out of contention for a playoff berth could defeat a team that has a playoff berth several times. This could cause the would-be playoff team to be passed by in the rankings by the team directly behind it before the final positions at the end of the season are determined.
In individual participant sports, such as automobile racing, a racer with no hope of obtaining a championship title could prevent a racer with a chance at the title by defeating them, preventing the contending racer from earning critical points toward winning the title. Instead, the title would go to the contender directly behind him in the rankings, provided that second-tier racer is close enough to surpass and they win their own competition.
See also[edit]
Notes and References[edit]
- Notes
- ^ Examples are the first past the post electoral system and in single transferable vote or similar systems with a first-preference votes winning percentage
- ^ A term designed to appeal to a wider section of the public as a result of the widespread, often national support of political parties
- ^ More viable by common public sentiment which may sometimes be indicated in opinion polls
- ^ For example, if the Democrats had nominated both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama for U.S. President in 2008, it would have allowed the Republican candidate (John McCain) to easily win; the voters who preferred both Clinton and Obama over McCain could not have been relied on to solve the strategy coordination problem on their own.
- ^ For example, in the United Kingdom, UKIP have a policy of not standing parliamentary candidates where the incumbent is a committed eurosceptic member of the large Conservative Party, however one rebel spoiler candidate from the party, Jake Baynes, led to the defeat of David Heathcoat-Amory in Wells in the United Kingdom general election, 2010 by the Liberal Democrats (UK)
- References
- ^ Public Disclosure Division (December 2001). "2000 Official Presidential General Election Results". Federal Election Commission. Retrieved August 30, 2010.
- ^ Rosenbaum, David E. (February 24, 2004). "Relax, Nader Advises Alarmed Democrats, but the 2000 Math Counsels Otherwise". The New York Times (New York). Retrieved August 30, 2010.
- ^ State Elections Offices. "2000 OFFICIAL PRESIDENTIAL GENERAL ELECTION RESULTS". Retrieved June 25, 2012.
- ^ Bacon Jr., Karen; Tumulty (May 31, 2004). "The Nader Effect". Time. Retrieved August 30, 2010.
- ^ Kuhn, David Paul (February 23, 2004). "The Nader Effect". CBSNews.com. CBS News. Retrieved August 30, 2010.
- ^ Cook, Charlie (March 9, 2004). "The Next Nader Effect". The New York Times. Retrieved August 30, 2010.
- ^ "Wisconsin GOP backs spoiler candidates in recall elections". WSJ.


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HONG KONG— Goldman Sachs Group Inc. GS +1.51% Goldman Sachs Group Inc. U.S.: NYSE $167.85 +2.50 +1.51% March 17, 2014 10:51 am Volume (Delayed 15m) : 753,424 P/E Ratio 10.29 Market Cap $74.86 Billion Dividend Yield 1.31% Rev. per Employee $1,201,640 03/16/14 Alibaba Plans Equal Sway for B... 03/14/14 Weibo Files Plan to Raise Up t... 03/12/14 Bankers Hit Stock-Award Jackpo... More quote details and news » is selling its remaining shares in Industrial & Commercial Bank of China Ltd. 3988.HK 0.00% Bank of China Ltd. Hong Kong $3.11 0.00 0.00% March 17, 2014 4:01 pm Volume : 147.09M P/E Ratio 4.51 Market Cap $870.55 Billion Dividend Yield 7.03% Rev. per Employee N/A More quote details and news » for about $1.1 billion.
The stock sale, Goldman's sixth since 2009, completes the firm's exit from China's biggest lender ahead of new international capital rules that ratchet up the cost of holding stakes in other financial companies.
Goldman bought a 4.9% stake in ICBC for US$2.58 billion in April 2006, before the Chinese bank went public in Hong Kong. It has been a lucrative deal for the firm. Including the latest sale, Goldman had raised about $10 billion from sales of ICBC shares, more than triple its initial investment.
But the stake was a conspicuous, and at times volatile, item in Goldman's quarterly results. And like Western firms' cross-border investments into Chinese banks, Goldman's ICBC stake never fulfilled its promise as a potential gateway to a much bigger slice of the investment-banking market.
Many Western banks had once viewed their stakes in Chinese counterparts as more than just a savvy investment in the nation's future.
"The American banks wanted to get a piece of Chinese banks because they knew the Chinese were quite capable of avoiding Wall Street to raise capital," said Charles Geisst, a finance professor at Manhattan College and the author of several books on Wall Street history. "This was a way of getting in."
A person familiar with the Goldman's views said its relationship with ICBC did help the firm's understanding of the Chinese market.
Goldman now has 300 employees in mainland China and operates a joint venture with a Chinese securities firm.
But last year Goldman ranked 10th in fees from advising Chinese companies on mergers and underwriting their stock and debt offerings, according to Dealogic. In 2005, the last full year before the firm's initial ICBC investment, Goldman ranked fifth.
Unable to reap any meaningful strategic value from these deals, many U.S. and European banks increasingly looked at their Chinese stakes solely as financial investments, according to several legal advisers to large banks.
With new capital rules looming, and China's banking system grappling with slowing profit growth and the potential for more bad loans, the ICBC sale appeared inevitable, they said.
The sale will help boost Goldman's capital levels. International regulations known as Basel III will increase the costs of holding minority stakes in financial institutions, forcing big banks to set aside more capital in order to maintain regulators' key measures of balance-sheet strength.
The ICBC stake has also affected Goldman's earnings. Volatility in ICBC's shares led Goldman to report a full-year net loss in Asia in 2011, its first since the 2008 financial crisis.
Goldman isn't the first foreign strategic investor that has exited from its investment in a Chinese bank. After the global financial crisis, UBS AG UBS +0.76% UBS AG U.S.: NYSE $20.41 +0.15 +0.76% March 17, 2014 10:51 am Volume (Delayed 15m) : 654,505 P/E Ratio 22.67 Market Cap $78.08 Billion Dividend Yield 1.36% Rev. per Employee $634,190 03/14/14 FDIC Sues Banks Over Libor 03/03/14 Proposed Detroit Bankruptcy De... 02/26/14 Foreign Investment Banks Gain ... More quote details and news » and Royal Bank of Scotland Group RBS.LN +0.73% Royal Bank of Scotland Group PLC U.K.: London GBp301.70 +2.20 +0.73% March 17, 2014 2:36 pm Volume : 6.18M P/E Ratio N/A Market Cap GBp33.86 Billion Dividend Yield N/A Rev. per Employee GBp163,104 02/28/14 What's News— 02/27/14 Royal Bank of Scotland to Slas... 02/27/14 Heard on the Street: No Endgam... More quote details and news » PLC, for instance, both sold their stakes in Bank of China Ltd., another large state-controlled Chinese bank, as they sought to bolster their capital.
Bank of America Corp. BAC +1.90% Bank of America Corp. U.S.: NYSE $17.12 +0.32 +1.90% March 17, 2014 10:51 am Volume (Delayed 15m) : 28.08M P/E Ratio 18.19 Market Cap $177.54 Billion Dividend Yield 0.23% Rev. per Employee $409,029 03/16/14 ARM Loans—a Vestige of the Hou... 03/16/14 Beware Banks Bearing Buyback G... 03/14/14 FDIC Sues Banks Over Libor More quote details and news » has pared its stake in China Construction Banks Corp., while Citigroup Inc. C +1.58% Citigroup Inc. U.S.: NYSE $47.62 +0.74 +1.58% March 17, 2014 10:51 am Volume (Delayed 15m) : 4.98M P/E Ratio 10.91 Market Cap $142.44 Billion Dividend Yield 0.08% Rev. per Employee $373,498 03/16/14 Beware Banks Bearing Buyback G... 03/14/14 FDIC Sues Banks Over Libor 03/14/14 People Moves: Citigroup, Penns... More quote details and news » exited from its investment in Shanghai Pudong Development Bank. 600000.SH +1.70% Shanghai Pudong Development Bank Co. Ltd. A China: Shanghai ¥8.99 +0.15 +1.70% March 14, 2014 3:04 pm Volume : 179.77M P/E Ratio 4.43 Market Cap ¥167.69 Billion Dividend Yield 6.12% Rev. per Employee ¥5,106,700 01/02/14 Silicon Valley Bank Targets Ch... 12/31/13 Q&A: Silicon Valley Bank Targe... More quote details and news »
In some cases, Chinese regulators have been unhappy with deals that have netted foreign banks major financial gains but failed to realize the potential long-term benefits of partnership that Beijing had originally hoped for.
Goldman is selling the Hong Kong-listed shares in range of 5.47 Hong Kong dollars to HK$5.50 (70 U.S. cents to 71 U.S. cents), representing a discount of 2.5%-3% to Monday's closing price of HK$5.64, according to a term sheet seen by The Wall Street Journal on Monday.
ICBC shares have risen 7% in the past month but are up just 2.5% year to date.
The sale could be the fourth-largest share placement in Asia so far this year. A US$3.1 billion share sale by Chinese oil giant China Petroleum & ChemicalCorp., or Sinopec, in early February is the biggest such deal so far this year.
The Goldman sale comes after U.S.-based fund house BlackRock Inc. BLK +1.07% BlackRock Inc. U.S.: NYSE $298.87 +3.16 +1.07% March 17, 2014 10:51 am Volume (Delayed 15m) : 164,825 P/E Ratio 17.39 Market Cap $49.53 Billion Dividend Yield 2.58% Rev. per Employee $912,807 03/05/14 Tuesday's Bond Selloff Came Wi... 02/28/14 Inside Wall Street's Frat: Kap... 02/26/14 Firms in Pact With New York to... More quote details and news » sold 27.4 million shares in ICBC, according to a filing to the Hong Kong stock exchange. The 0.04% stake sale trims its holding in the Chinese bank to 5.99%.
Goldman Sachs is the sole bookrunner for Monday's share sale, the term sheet said.
—Lingling Wei and Fiona Law contributed to this article.


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Down to the wire for the Cards tonight. Giants going to do the 3 game come back again?
We watched the debate, too, as had a bad feeling about tonight. Already seeing comments about the new manager not being a LaRussa. I give Metheny a lot of credit for taking the Cards this far, although very sad that they didn't get to combat the Tigers.
Funny thing, remember how a lot of the sports guys used to diss LaRussa. I guess he had to leave to be appreciated.
There's always next year, sigh.
Unfortunantly, as with all Game 7's, one team goes on and the other goes home. This time it's the Giants moving on to the World Series and not the Cards but it could have been the other way around, especially with the way Cain was pitching, but the Giant's defense and bats gave him great support
Oh and I guess I'll have to pick up one these tommorow....
I'm happy for Hunter Pence. I was pissed when we traded him.
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WinSCP News
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It appears that your browser does not comply with the W3C web standards which define how web pages are encoded, transmitted, and rendered. This site would look much better in a standards-compliant web browser, but its content is accessible to any browser or Internet device.
WinSCP 5.5.1 released
This version fixes several bugs and adds some small improvements.
Eager to learn more about the new features? Follow us on Facebook, Twitter or Google+.
WinSCP 5.5 released
Simply said, WinSCP 5.5 is the best FTP and SFTP client we have produced yet
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WinSCP 5.5 is the major release of 2013 with almost 300 implemented improvements! Thanks a lot for all your support and inspiration!
WinSCP 5.1.8 released
This version fixes several bugs and adds some small improvements.
WinSCP 5.2.7 RC released
This version enables checking disk space usage, when connected to OpenSSH server, and fixes several bugs.
WinSCP 5.2.6 beta released
This version improves registration for URL protocols and fixes several bugs.
WinSCP 5.2.5 beta released
The most important changes/additions are:
- Distinguishing main question of a message box;
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WinSCP 5.2.4 beta released
The most important changes/additions are:
- Three SSH security vulnerabilities fixed;
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WinSCP 5.1.7 released
This version fixes three SSH security vulnerabilities and several other bugs.


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One technology trend that I have seen perk up in writing has been the increased use of collaboration. With a platform like Google Docs, more than one person can work on a document at the same time. This opens up a new way of writing and can be a really cool thing to experience. I encourage anyone who does any sort of writing for a living to try it. It's an interesting spark of creativity to work alongside someone else on the same piece of work!
Great story telling is still going to be what works and brings in the audience. Software is great for productivity, and analyitics can bring some insight. But, it's still garbabe in garbage out if one tries to rely on looking at numbers to guess who's going to be receptive to any particular message.
There are many writing software and apps available to help writers, screenwriters, and journalist in their creative work. However, none of them does the work for you. There is no such software that I know that is capable of writing a story, or an ending for you.
What they do is simply organize your work, giving you specific layouts for a script, a play, a novel, short story, poem, article, or academic writing, and some have some nice features like a corkboard on your desktop and so on.
They increase your productivity, but not your creativity.
"... the solitary writer -- destitute in a shuttered hotel, perhaps with a bottle of Scotch positioned handily next to the typewriter... "
Have you been spycamming into my office again, Alison?
Technology can help inspire more creations, but maybe there's an important difference between creative productivity and pure creativity.
There are apparently a few computer programs out there that spit out movie script plots on demand.. aimed at helping struggling writers to come up with surprise endings or avoid writer's block -- but while these programs might increase creative productivity, I'm not so sure they increase creativity..


text: PANTS TOO LONG* I'm just a little short guy and sometimes I don't fit Not into society but into the clothes I buy, to wit: Shirt sleeves come in 32/33 but the 33 just doesn't fit me. I could go custom but then you see I'd pay a lot for a 32 sleeve. So I'm stuck with a size that's just too big for me. And socks are worse, for sizes aren't just two. They come "one size fits all" but none will fit on you. They stretch from 6 to 12 and if you're less or more there's nothing left for you in the whole darn big store. I bought some bedroom slippers just the other day And to the clerk I'd say, "I need an 8 and I will pay" But the clerk would then reply, "It's 8/9, no 8 on any day." My waist at 35 inches is fine but no pants on a rack can fit. And 34 and 36 are in a line but the length we'll have to omit. So it's to a tailor I must go or to a high-end store. Off I went to the nearest Mall and looked at shirts marked Large, Medium and Small. They even had XL and XXL and everything for the very tall. Those sizes don't make sense for "small" just ain't made for gents. So I must go to "Custom Joe" or to "Expensive Moe." Which will really be okay to satisfy myself, I'd say. But just when things couldn't go wrong I remembered that old song, "Sam, you made the pants too long." And that ruined the rest of my day. *After a full day of shopping for new clothes I was completely frustrated by size choices for the little guy like me. I just had to write something.


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Fossil is offering their Transit Catch All Shave Kit in Camel color for $39.99 plus Free Shipping . Sales tax in most states. Expires soon or while supplies last. Why this deal is hot : This … Read more »


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Final March statistics for twitter.com in May: 19 million users - not counting all those twitter-apps.
What happens when you take America's Funniest Home Videos and turn it globally: YouTube. What do you get when you combine YouTube with real-time? Hmm...
Thanks for reading BSN*


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About Prestige: For over 50 years the Prestige brand has become synonymous with household cooking in the UK, known for it's quality, performance and value. Constantly setting the bar in colour and design, Prestige now embraces cookware, bakeware, kitchen utensils and is a growing brand in the small domestic appliance category.


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Wednesday, March 12, 2014
The Newsroom Sessions welcomes local and nationally touring musicians to the Portland Press Herald newsroom for a chat with music writer Aimsel Ponti and an in-studio performance. Each week we invite you to watch, listen and, maybe, sing along.
Aimsel Ponti has been obsessed with - and inspired by - music since she listened to Monkees records borrowed from the town library when she was 6 years old. She's a huge fan of the local music scene and interviews an act every week for "Making Noise" which runs in the Portland Press Herald GO section. You'll also find her out and about absorbing live music like a sponge and roaming around local record shops and flea markets. Follow her blog, Face the Music, on PressHerald.com.


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Don't wait for despair to set in over summer utility bills. Here are five ways to cut your costs and stay cool.
One of the best parts of summer for me is hitting the lake with family and friends. I don't love jumping through hurdles to find a sunscreen that's safe to use.
In addition to noise pollution, gas-powered lawn equipment also creates air, land and water pollution. This summer, pick smarter equipment that will not only cut pollution but also trim lawn maintenance costs.
Getting rid of weeds can be a problem. In fact, it can be downright dangerous because there are growing health concerns over one of the chief ingredients used for killing weeds: glyphosate. There are healthier and less expensive alternatives.
The flowers are blooming, the weather is warming and pests are starting to appear inside and outside of our homes. Instead of reaching for a toxic cocktail of bug killer, you can Do Your Part to battle these pests with safer solutions.
If you're anything like me, you probably have a few old prescriptions that have been hanging around for years. Those plastic bottles may contain the last antibiotic from a bout of strep throat or a medication you never even used.
Washing a car at home can be one of the most environmentally unfriendly ways to do the job – unless you take precautions.
Grow your own foods at home and you'll soon see how easy, economical and tasty it can be.
There's no need to spend a ton of money on potentially toxic household chemical cleaners. Instead, use a few ingredients to whip up healthier homemade substitutions that will work wonders on every inch of my home.
We all can make eco-friendly choices outdoors as you begin prepping for spring gardening.


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I WANT YOU to Become the Editor of a NY Times Bestseller and Travel the World for Free 82 Comments
I'd like to invite you to leave your personal mark on The 4-Hour Workweek. After 31 printings (!) and more than 25 languages, you can put your signature on a global phenomenon… and travel the world for free…
Your ideas, collected via this open wiki, will play a massive part in influencing the future of 4HWW and an "expanded and updated" edition in 2008 or early 2009. The password to make edits is [see below].
[Postscript: Please note that the wiki is no longer accepting changes, as the experiment has ended. Thanks to all of you for lots of fantastic suggestions and changes!]
The backlash I hoped for is gaining speed, even among the Fortune 500, and I want an improved and expanded 4HWW to help propel the critical mass needed for large-scale institutional, and even policy-level, change. The book alone won't do it, obviously, but I believe it can play a small part as instigator.
To my knowledge, this is the first time a NY Times bestseller has ever been made open to public editing. In fact, I haven't seen any traditionally-published book ever crowdsourced on a global scale.
Why am I doing this?
1. I've been blown away with the innovation I've seen among readers in lifestyle design, both derivative of 4HWW and 100% original. In all respects: "we" is smarter than "me".
2. Book editing is ridiculously anachronistic.
When I was in Florianopolis, Brazil learning to surf last winter, my publisher informed me that the "second pass" manuscript was ready for me to review. Great! Just send a PDF, right? Not quite. I was mailed 400+ pages of printed matter with changes indicated by different colored pencils used by different people. I had to find another color, scribble in my edits, and mail it back.
"Please tell me you have another copy of this," I said via the Vonage-wired beach house with a nervous laugh. The response: "I don't think so, so please don't lose it." Talk about author heart attack. I felt like Clive Owen in Children of Men.
Here are a few incentives. The top contributor as subjectively determined by me (quality over quantity) will get:
1) A roundtrip ticket anywhere in the world (using Continental or a partner airline of OnePass)
2) Their name in the acknowledgments of the 4HWW
3) My help planning the mini-retirement, whether a romantic trip to Bali or touring the hidden temples and Bladerunner-like coolness of Japan. I've already sent readers to do both.
The due date for suggestions is March 23rd at 5pm PST but early birds have a big advantage, since you don't get credit for making suggestions someone else has already made.
Don't let other people alone shape the future of the 4HWW. Make sure you've left your mark…
[Postscript: Sorry for accidentally publishing a draft of this post first! "Save" is right next to "publish" in the WP admin :)]
Reader Poll:
Many of you have complained about how I sometimes put multiple topics in single posts. Here's why I've done it: I don't want to clutter people's RSS or e-mail with separate posts just to make announcements, so I append them at the end of posts (a la "(Plus: Competition Winners)"). Lots of you dislike this or find it confusing for good reasons. Which do you prefer? If the below poll doesn't work for some reason, please tell me in the comments:
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Posted on February 19th, 2008
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82 Comments
Don't speparate out your posts Tim. Being completely honest that non prescriptive style is the primary reason I keep reading and looking forward to reading your material. It sets you apart and promises me something a little different from everyone else.
I see this getting messy unless you have a VA helping you to weed out some suggestions. Good luck.
Hi Mike,
Oh, it certainly could be a huge mess, but that's part of the value of the experiment. Will it be? Will people sabotage? If they do, will others put them in check somehow? We'll see if the system is self-correcting and self-refining. Should be very interesting
Tim, I had the same reaction to my first book when they sent back a manuscript full of scribbles, including changes I didn't want. The way to handle copyedits like that one is simple: have a stamp made that says "STET" and ink every page, top and bottom, with it.
Tim, I just saw this via your Twitter feed, and I like this idea for more than a few reasons:
* I got a lot of value from reading your book, and this is a great way for me to give something back – beyond the ridiculously low $12 I paid for the book.
* This gives me a new reason to re-read your book. There's sure to be new and deeper learning as I read through a different filter.
* Great experiment in leveraging the energies and wisdom of your most passionate fans. In some ways, this is even better than what we talked about Anthony Robbins does so well.
Tim, I love the 'wisdom of crowds' approach (amusingly enough, that book was published by Random House too) and am racking my brains for the winning contribution. But I must defend professional editing.
I'm an editor myself. It's our job to make sure authors' books cover all the bases and make their points clearly and intelligently. We make you look good, rarely get any credit, work stupid hours and the salaries are laughable – we're doing our jobs because we love books and want to make great ones. Please don't bash us!
Having said that, I agree that a hard copy covered with notes is anachronistic – I send my authors either PDFs with comments or Word files with tracked changes. So ask Crown/Random to change their ways. You have the power. At very least, request they photocopy the MS before mailing it!
Hi Vanessa,
Good point and I should clarify. This post is in no way an attack on editors. It's an attack on an outmoded system of sourcing good material. "Crowdsourcing" is, to me, exactly that: sourcing. This is how you get the best ingredients in the world. Putting them all together into a winning recipe and meal requires other players trained in the craft. An excellent editor is invaluable.
Thanks for the contribution!
See you in the wiki Tim. I want that ticket.
The RSS feed for this post mentions a Nintendo Wii and Guitar Hero. Yet, reading the above article, I see no mention of these items. Was the Nintendo Wii mentioned solely to drive traffic to your site?
Hi Erik,
Not at all! This was a screw up on my part. I was brainstorming ideas and looking at other contests people had run. It was a draft and instead of hitting "save," I accidentally hit "publish." Totally my goof.
Any idea on how to re-push via RSS? Do I need to rename the post title to do so? I'm a Luddite — please help.
Thank you,
One reader commented:
The RSS feed for this post mentions a Nintendo Wii and Guitar Hero. Yet, reading the above article, I see no mention of these items. Was the Nintendo Wii mentioned solely to drive traffic to your site?
Hi Erik,
Not at all! This was a screw up on my part. I was brainstorming ideas and looking at other contests people had run. The post was a 1st draft and instead of hitting "save," I accidentally hit "publish." Totally my goof.
Any idea on how to re-push via RSS?
Do I need to rename the post title to do so? I'm a Luddite — please help if you can.
Dear Tim,
I have an interesting question for you. And since the contact section in your website mentions posting it on your blog here goes.
I really enjoyed the 4 hour work week. I found the section on contacting mentors and asking them questions fascinating.
If you were a native speaker in both English and Chinese, had $2000, are currently in Shanghai, China and wished to stay (currently no job, no work visa). What would you do? And do you know other people I could pose this question to?
Jade -
Genius Idea,
It is the current trend to ask for the crowd's opinion. This is what made Threadless so successful, besides the obvious, first mover's advantage. Dorito's did this last year also. I applaud you on your success and innovative ideas. You must have studied with the Swedes and Norwegians. Tim, do you think you would have written your book if you had not graduated from Princeton?
Jose Castro-Frenzel
Hi Jose,
Thanks for the kind words. I never planned on writing a book, so I don't think Princeton had much to do with it, to be honest. If I hadn't left the US for my experiments and walk-about? Then I doubt the book would have happened, but the schooling isn't what sparked it.
Thanks again,
This is a truly awesome concept Tim, I love your approach to this. There is already a tonne of new information I am finding useful. I can hear you saying 'its a win-win scenario' to your publisher and them finally beginning to trust you!
Continued thanks for the inspiration Sefu – living free and tranquilo.
Dan -
[...] heading into its expanded and updated version [read his blog entry about it here] and he is asking his readers to help him edit it on a PBWiki wiki. The wiki password is in the [...]
First, a quick WordPress tip: (because I've made the same mistake before!). When I sit down to write a draft, the first thing I do is post-date the entry just in case I accidentally publish it.
Second, perhaps you can speak a bit more about how far you want your readers to go. Thus far I've just been adding a few links to resources. On the other extreme I could imagine providing nicely designed charts and graphics, or writing entire paragraphs of suggested material and sharing case studies- but that seems like it might be going way beyond what you intend.
Your thoughts?
Hi Jed,
Good point. I encourage people to contribute as much as they feel comfortable contributing without getting compensated for it, whether that's diagrams, graphs, rewording of paragraphs, entirely new paragraphs, case studies, new chapter suggestions, or just a typo/URL correction. In the case of a really good diagram or something like that, I would try and get the publisher to give attribution or "based on" for credit, but I wouldn't be able to promise it.
That certainly wouldn't prevent me from giving credit to them if I shared it on the site, however. Great question!
i recently bought your book when i was in Florida for vacation. I am from Germany so your normally don't stumble much about foreign books here. Ok, i musst admit i am already following your blog for quite some time, so i was already prepared to give it a chance when i see it.
I am in the middle of reading through the book and i already got some good inspirations from it. Ok, some stuff is quite us centric. For example we normally don't have that kind of cubicles in our companies but overall it is still valuable.
One inspiration i already got from your book was the hint with couchsurfing idea.
I tried it out and it did worked very well for two occasion in Florida. That made my vacation quite a different experiences. Thanks for that. (Although i was travelling with my bicycle through Florida which in itself is in experience in the US.)Hope i can contribute some ideas for your upcoming updated book.
[...] 20, 2008 by suzemuse Timothy Ferriss, best-selling author of The Four Hour Work Week, has a great idea. He is engaging his readers as editors of the next edition of his book (due out in 2008 or [...]
Hey Tim, I resisted your book for some time thinking that you were a bit hyperactive, and hard to duplicate. I finally gave in, bought the book and audio book. I have been blown away by the metaphysical depth to this work.
Your decision to crowd source the edit reinforces this idea. I could go on however this is probably not the place for a long dissection of your life philosophy. Suffice to say it is really inspirational stuff.
However if you were presented with this challenge (editing the 4HWW wiki for a round the world ticket) I suspect you would find an angle that gave you an oblique advantage and dominate the task. I have noticed that you are quite a competitive chap!
Reflecting on your principles though, I don't know that it is a good use of time. Perhaps the time could be spent testing a muse or planning a mini retirement.
To finish I just wanted to say your book has given a new lease of life and I have been implementing many of the principles and I intent to join the NR very soon. Dean
[...] Please write my NY Times Bestseller for me while I enjoy life. [...]
I couldn't do a whole edit….but can I put some content ideas forward, here's hoping I haven't missed the boat.
* Ref websites for outside the US, I'm having real difficulty finding UK equivalents.
* Greater detailing on how to find drop shippers and whole salers – more of the nitty gritty details.
There may be a couple more, but I'll need to re-read the book.
I have recommended this book to EVERYONE and was just so chuffed to find someone writing about the way I think and for me not to feel like a alien just because I don't follow the working crowd!
I'm a documentary film maker so I'm toying with the idea of documenting my efforts to take your pages into the big wild world. – Expect an interview request in the next 6 months.Thanks
Frances -
Re: combined or separate RSS feeds –
You shouldn't have to choose between one or the other. There should be a way to make conditional statements in the code that runs the blog. An "if this, then that" sort of thing. You could have 3 feeds – 1 combined, 1 with just articles, 1 with updates and notifications – and you should be able to do this without duplicating content on the web version of the blog.
Additionally – you could promote your Flickr account with a feed. Probably most avid Flickr users know how to set up their own custom feeds – but many may appreciate the ease of clicking a pre-formatted link that automagically opens in their feed reader.
Finally – I definitely think you should start maintaining links in a service like ma.gnolia. You could set up your own profile and account, but more importantly – set up a group for "Lifestyle Design" or "4HWW" that the members of your community could join. It's like Flickr in that items get tagged – but it's specifically for bookmarks (not images). This would be a far more efficient means of sharing all the links in the Wiki – and certainly easier to maintain than through the print version of your book. Plus, people can subscribe for automatic updates.
P.S. New Twitter icon looking good. ; )
[...] "Four Hour Work Week" Ferris is at it again pushing the envelope that is! If you haven't heard of Tim or his book "Four Hour Work [...]
One more thought about ma.gnolia.com. Your group could be moderated – so no worries about people spamming or stuffing it with affiliate links.
And it may be a little beyond your current needs (and the nature of your business), but getsatisfaction.com is a fun way to dialogue with customers/community about your brand/product. It may be a better solution than MajikWidget at some point for tracking feedback from your readership.
Hi Tim, I think combined posts are great for the reasons you mentioned — the less email and RSS feed items the better — and I know how you like efficiency!
I LOVED 4HWW and it changed the way I work and think about work. The wiki is a great idea and I look forward to contributing — hope it doesn't get overwhelming — you've got QUITE a following! I would love to address how the mom of young kids can apply some of your tips while maintaining a house, kids and time for her own sanity.
I also would love to see someone address — what do you do when your work IS your life's passion? Does that still mean you should spend only 4 hours/week on it? By blogging I help people to heal themselves and to want to learn more about healing naturally — the more time I dedicate the more people I can reach out to — this IS my passion….. hard not to become a workaholic when doing something so meaningful to me….. still, I use your tips for efficiency to manage some of the more mundane tasks and concentrate on the posts and contact with readers for fun and fulfillment. Thanks Tim! Gratefully, Jenny
Sites that are constantly updating old articles are a pet peeve of mine. I want the latest material on top, because I don't think of my RSS feeds as a collection of articles to browse through – it's a firehose, not the New Yorker. Plus, I prefer navigating with the arrow keys, so updating posts down in the stack forces me to either switch to the space bar (this may or may not make sense depending on the reader that you use) or hit that down arrow like a monkey in a cruel experiment. Then, when I use the space bar, I lose the context of what feed I'm in, because I'm jumping around from one "next unread" to the next.
It's a bit different with your site, though, because your updates are substantive. My real problem is with sites like Slate, which are constantly re-posting old articles for no apparent reason, forcing me to navigate to them just to mark them as read again. So, I'd say that if what you're posting is a genuine update, it's fine to keep it in the article. If it's just related, though, you might want to go with a new post, even if it's short. And if you're just correcting a typo, think about the fact that all of your readers are going to have to revisit the article to get the correction. Usually ain't worth it, in my opinion.
On a different topic, I like your "non-canonical" style with comments. I can see it annoying some people ("How dare you edit my comment"), but I like it, and I think wider adoption might change the tone around these webs. More of a face to face engagement with the top poster.
I say keep the posts combined. I'd rather read one meaningful, thought provoking post per week than seven incomplete ideas or random thoughts of someone. It doesn't have to be per week either, just whenever there is something meaningful to post.
[...] read more | digg story [...]
After I read the section on outsourcing I thought it sounded like a novel idea but would never work for me. However since the rest of the book was "spot on" I decided to try it. Rather than ship my money overseas I opted to keep it in the US and use my niece in college with skills on computers I can't even fathom to test the theory. Turns out it has been a great experience and timesaver for me as well as money maker for her. It seems I have all of the positives of outsourcing but none of the hassles of language and such. The only downside I can see is that my niece will eventually graduate from college and end up farming Uncle Ken's work out to a source of her own. However being able to mold a young mind for the better ties in well with the rest of your book so I won't fret too much over the outcome I can't control. My addition would be a simple one; everybody has a relative with computer skills somewhere my idea is why not use them if you can. You can always go overseas if the decision turns out to be a poor one.I added this into your wiki already but thought it might help someone now and later! Thanks again!
I don't have a problem with multiple topics in a single post per se. But it's probably sufficient to stick with a single topic in the title, and add any announcement as a postscript.
I've enjoyed the posts so far and think that cramming as much into one post as possible is the best way for you to publish. After all, it's just batching and it saves me time.
As annoying as it may seem, it's effective and efficient. You already have my attention since I'm reading the post, you take advantage of that and throw in anything else that I need to know. Maybe a small sub-heading giving warning would be nice but all in all good stuff.
Thanks for asking our opinion.
Once again, Tim, you've jiggled our brains with a great concept for "sourcing" your book!
The majikwidget didn't work from my email (Mac OSX 10.4.11 – Mail 2.1.3 (753.1/753)…the buttons just show as images, not links. But no big deal, 'cuz I always check out other comments to your posts for the nuggets of wisdom they contain.
RE: Combining/separating posts…keep them combined for me. Again, for following-on to more in-depth content or new, related content I wouldn't have thought of/found otherwise.
Great idea to really use the crowd to impove your book. A better product more loyal fans of course some free publicity in the media around the concept. I know that the folks behind the programming book "Agile Programming with Ruby On Rails" have done something similar, where they let the whole book out in public beta before being published. That really improved the quality of that book & I hope to see the same for the (already great) 4HWW.
Hey Tim,
I lent somebody my copy of 4HWW. Somewhere in it you describe the following phenomenon: the more time you attribute to solving a problem, the larger its perceived complexity becomes. What's that called, officially?
Many thanks,
Hi Martijn, that's a part of Parkinson's Law.
[...] Tim's blog post [...]
A good question from a reader and my response:
Perhaps you can speak a bit more about how far you want your readers to go [with the wiki edits]. I could imagine providing nicely designed charts and graphics, or writing entire paragraphs of suggested material and sharing case studies- but that seems like it might be going way beyond what you intend.
Your thoughts?
Hi Jed,
Good point. I encourage people to contribute as much as they feel comfortable contributing without getting compensated for it, whether that's diagrams, graphs, rewording of paragraphs, entirely new paragraphs, case studies, new chapter suggestions, or just a typo/URL correction. In the case of a really good diagram or something like that, I would try and get the publisher to give attribution or "based on" for credit, but I wouldn't be able to promise it.
That certainly wouldn't prevent me from giving credit to them if I shared it on the site, however. Great question!
Hi Tim
Those combined posts make me read the whole part. It's like getting together the big and serious knowledge with the one that is less serious and easier to start practicing. Make it this way please!
I love when anegdotes combine & support the knowledge
[...] Timothy Ferriss has opened up his Four Hour Work Week 2.0 to editing by any and all. Read about it here. [...]
The crowdsourcing concept is a really neat idea for a traditionally offline kind of project. I certainly wish you success.
I believe it's also worth noting that crowds can also get it wrong. And when they do it's quite powerful. So much so that rational people will go along against their own senses and judgment ONLY because of the crowd.
You asked for feedback on the reader poll… I started using Google Reader at your suggestion. Great idea! However, the reader poll didn't make it into the RSS feed for the article. So poor user has to click an extra time to find it.
The wiki is a good idea, but you need to copy the chapters into the wiki in order to get the most creativity. Most of the comments have no context, unless you constantly reference your copy of the book.
Nice book. I avoided it even though two different people told me to read it because all the marketing around it looked like a get-rich real estate scheme. But when someone said I already had a lot of the basics down, I thought, "Huh?" And so I got the book and it's for real.
I'm an artist and used to get fired from crappy jobs so much, I'd lurch through grant apps and project ideas to see what'd catch first. So then I got my first book deal with Simon & Schuster around age 25, and hauled ass through four books before I broke down and had a Puerto Rican tantrum to get out of my contract because I was saddled with a nightmare publicist.
Addicted to over-reaching, I spent seven years writing a screenplay that I plan on producing myself and this book made me smile because there are days when I want to tip-toe to the Golden Gate Bridge and reconsider what the heck I'm doing.
But this book is a good– no, GREAT— reminder. When you're a woman, every few years you lose a new line of girlfriends to the baby thing and then I feel like a non-earthy person. Shouldn't I want to suckle something that'll need and love me until it hates me during those oh-so-sweet teenage years?
So thank you. I'm impressed as I didn't expect so much quality and truth and generosity of spirit. Hope this helps a lot of people. Life would be so much easier if everyone was patting each other on the back to do insane things instead of running each other through the gauntlet of arrogant (fearful) Simon Cowells.
This is a good reminder of this life. Yeah. You get addicted to over-reaching for the impossible because the high when you pull something off is amazing.
You're a pretty good writer. I swore this was ghost written. How can you stay in shape, travel, AND write. Dude, you need a super model. Someone like Heidi Klum, who can pump out babies and never get stretchmarks or get fat. Superhuman.
And I'm not even jealous. I'm thinking, you go ahead. This movie thing is hard enough without adding being fabulous to my list.
So thanks for the book. I love books on creativity and ideas on doing the impossible. I keep my circle very, very tiny now. I can't afford even the tiniest looks of doubt in my inner world. So books and paintings and history reminds me the absurdity of self doubt.
And when even that creeps in, I think, what? Am I just hear to consume and languish in comfortable recliners? So boring.
Good luck with everything. I've avoided the computer all day (I've already trained people to never telephone me), but after getting fan letters, I know how important they are. It's necessary to tell others when you've touched them. A part of the collective unconscious or something.
Fan letters have kept me from being face down on the bed and drooling for too long.
(I wonder if you cover the loneliness and despondent feeling of sometimes doing or going your own way. All this wild life stuff looks great in glossy magazines, but it gets lonely sometimes. You have all this free time and everyone else is working. At least that's what it's like for me. But then again, I'm a girl. We're not hard wired to ask what you do for a living–unless we're trophy wives looking for a new gig—but we're always asking about relationships and how you met someone. blah blah blah…there i go again.)
anyhow, gotta go. this is getting long and another conversation is starting up in the room.
–erika lopez, san francisco
p.s. sorry for my previous post's misspellings ("hear" for "here" makes me cringe). it's late for me. the intense conversation on the room is over, and i was focusing on using capitalization here as we don't know each other and i was being formal like using "usted." but in this post script, i'm back to the familiarity of no capitalization (i write soooo much faster that way).
and if anyone else reads this and is considering chucking the job for adventure, i don't mean to scare you with the loneliness of doing your own thing without a gang of people doing the same thing. it's just the balance thing: with anything new and full of growth is some pain of letting go and entering the unknown. you think it's hard to get up and turn the channel without a remote control? whew. but think about how superior you feel whenever you even get up to change your own channels.
(see? even as i turn myself into a mini movie mogul, next to the accomplishments of you, ferriss, i feel like i'm just getting my butt up to change the channel. in-TIM-i-dating.)
but good luck you all in whatever you end up doing and taking on. i mean it. the world really needs more people tilting at windmills. that's how change happens on a mass scale. (oh, the quaker girl always has to turn it into social change!)
good night Intimadatin' Ferriss, and the rest of you all. I think it's so cool that some of you want to wiki-edit his script. That thar is more holy work. eek. i don't love anyone enough to edit them. Oh, i'll laugh my butt off in the front row and let them have a tantrum on me and forgive them ten minutes later, but edit? ew. it's all i can do to…
–erika lopez in san francisco
I'd love to join in, but as it is there's a bug in the current version of Adobe Reader on the Mac that prevents me from downloading the e-Book version of the current edition, and all the bookshops in the UK are currently waiting for the new edition, which I've ordered from Amazon.co.uk (Yeah – I'm *determined* I'm gonna read this book sooner or later!) so the old edition is out of print – or worse yet, when I asked in Borders if they had any of the old editions, carefully spelling out your name & the title of the book, they hadn't even got you in their database!
I am not sure where to email/post an idea I have for a monthly residual income opportunity for the 4 hour work week & Tim. It has the ability to be another Tony Robbins/Guthy-Renker type seller! I tried to look in the edits section of the new book, but didn't find an appropriate place. Could someone let me know where the best spot would be? Thanks so much.
Hi Justin,
I've been approached by a few TV long-form infomercial companies and have thus far declined, but please feel free to let me know your ideas via my assistant at amy [at] fourhourworkweek [dot] com.
Yesterday I looked into your outsourcing concept. I think it's clever. I had been trying to figure out how I could delgate more.
You say there are people available for $5 per hour. So far, I haven't found anyone who charges less than $8, with $12 being more common. Have they all raised their fees now that you've given them publicity?###
Hi Lisa,
I know that Brickwork and GetFriday have both raised rates, but you should be able to find some in parts of India at least for $4-5/hour on http://www.elance.com. If not, $8 isn't so bad
A cool idea Tim,
Can you just reiterate what your trying to achieve with the crowd sourcing concept!
It's too
4HWW to help propel the critical mass needed for large-scale institutional, and even policy-level, change.
So we are looking to get corporations and the masses to buy into the 4HWW concept and change how they employ people their contracts, ways of working holidays etc.
I think we need to get people to think more 'entrepreneurially' and take more responsibility rather than looking for the safety of their pay check..
I'm on board
Gavin Allinson
Reminds me of something I read once ….
"Say – I'm going in a -swimming, I am. Don't you wish you could? But of course you'd druther work – wouldn't you? Course you would!"
Tom contemplated the boy a bit, and said:
"What do you call work?"
"Why, ain't that work?"
Tom resumed his whitewashing, and answered carelessly:
"Well, maybe it is, and maybe it ain't. All I know it suits Tom Sawyer."
"Oh, come now, you don't mean to let on that you like it?"
The brush continued to move.
"Like it? Well, I don't see why I oughtn't to like it. does a boy get a chance to whitewash a fence every day?"
That put the thing in a new light. Ben stopped nibbling his apple. Tom swept his brush daintily back and forth – stepped back to note the effect – added a touch here and there – criticized the effect again – Ben watching every move and getting more and more interested, more and more absorbed. Presently he said:
"Say, Tom, let me whitewash a little."
—Mark Twain
[...] his best selling book The 4-Hour Workweek. Here's the thing: he has basically extended this invitation to everyone! For those who wish to contribute, Ferriss is collecting ideas via an open wiki for the [...]
I'd prefer separate posts, since it makes it easier to find stuff.
WordPress provides per-category RSS feeds. Maybe you could do something to categorise the posts, so that people who only want to see one type or the other can subscribe to the appropriate feed?
To avoid confusion, you could still leave the normal feed as the default. It's probably only geeks who would want the filtered feeds anyway, and they'll be able to understand which one to subscribe to.
Tim – Thanks to your book I am revolutionizing my life, quitting my job and taking control of my time. Thanks for all your hard work. Can't wait to check out the wiki.
Can I suggest that you include a prominent warning on this blog post and on the wiki home page which lets users know that if they make an amendment to the Wiki, their EMAIL ADDRESS will be connected to that comment and will be publicly available information to anyone who cares to look? Thank you.
Hi Ouch,
Yikes! I've just did three things:
1) Changed the password so no one's contact information is visible.
2) Put up a notice of such on the wiki.
3) Send email to the CEO and CTO of PBWiki to try and change this.I'll keep you guys posted. I figured this whole wiki experiment would have some excitement
Thank you so much for the heads up!
Hi Privacy Warning,
I'm one of the co-founders of PBwiki (the wiki software Tim is running for his crowdsourcing). We take privacy very seriously, so I really appreciate your comment about email addresses.
We designed the system to show email addresses only when you're logged in. This lets members of the wiki see exactly who made what change. If you're not logged in, you can't see email addresses.
If you're concerned about your email address being shown (even to logged-in users), you can just use a fake email address. The downside of this is that Tim may not be able to email you if you win the contest.
If you have any questions, let me know and I'd be happy to chat with you. Thanks!
Hi Tim,
I'm really surprised to hear about the colored pencils in this digital age. Just FYI, when working on a real estate contract recently, my attorney, the seller's attorney, my partner, and I had great success with using Microsoft Word's "Tracked changes" feature.
In Word 2003, after writing the first draft, you just go to the Tools menu, choose "Protect document…", then check the box next to "editing restrictions" and select "Tracked changes" from the drop down box, then click "Yes, start enforcing protection". (use help for other versions of Word)
You can then e-mail back and forth a Word doc (via a password-protected file or encrypted e-mail) which will track all additions, subtractions, and changes made to the document and show who made them (and without risking losing the ONE AND ONLY copy). Something to check out.
Great idea on the crowdsourcing. I enjoy how you're always pushing the envelope.
Dan -
Hey Tim,
I gave this idea some further reflection.
While I can see the value of adding more resources to make it easier for people to connect with the stuff, I think you did an extraordinary job on the core text and getting your message across. This book conveys the core idea exceptionally well, so why mess with it? (With all due respect for the contributions people want to make)
What I do see the value of is a co-created 4HWW Work & Sourcebook, with success & failure stories by pioneers, tools & tips and resources.
3 good reasons for doing it like this:
1) You do not cloud the core message.
2) You give people a real tool to make it actionable with the Work & Sourcebook.
3) You double your revenue potential, because you have two instead of one great product(s).To comment on that last point: I will not go out to buy edition # 2 of the original, because the (prceived) similarities will be to big with # 1.
I will however, rush to the nearest bookstore to get the Work & Sourcebook, because that's new and is actionable, so has real value.
"perceived" and "too big" of course, sorry.
I'd love to work on the editing, but I'm having way to much fun living my passion and purpose in my own work, and spending the other 36 working hours per week reading blogs and otherwise having a life. Thanks for the inspiration and a great idea though.
Thanks Tim and Ramit both for the super-responsiveness. I don't object to the system itself, just as long as people are aware. All good now!
Keep the announcements and such at the end of posts. Two reasons: 1) Posting them separately floods Google Reader unnecessarily. 2) They're great 'after dinner mints' that follow a weighty main post. I love 'em and look forward to them.
Coloured pencils sound like a quaint solution, but they do have an advantage for editors in that they maintain control over the original text as reviewers make comments "in the margin". Still, what a pain to use hard copies and old fashioned post.
Proofing and approval of documents is one of the natural fits for web-based applications. Reviewing a document in "the cloud" makes much more sense than sending multiple copies by email or snail mail.
Wiki based proofing solutions can work, but they can also have limitation as multiple reviewers start commenting and editing the same areas of text. To a certain extent they can also lead to loss of document "ownership" for the author or editor.
[Apologies for the following self-promotion...]
At ProofHQ we have created a proofing and approval system that gives document owners control over the original, whilst letting reviewers add AND DISCUSS comments "in the margin". Introducing discussion threads around comments makes it easier for all reviewers to contribute to the debate without losing the context of the original content. All of this takes place "in the cloud" so only one copy of the document exits for all reviewers to work on.
I am a 52 year old teacher and this year I did a really spooky thing and took the year off of work. Single parent, two school age kids, no income and not a clue to how to make a living. A friend saw you on some show talking about your book and suggested it to me. It has become my bible. It calms my fears and gives me some confidence to face the future. I hope by summer that I can get some money making business going. I have many ideas and now the hard work starts, putting them to action.
Proof reading and editing in a collaborative fashion is a great thing to do. Subsequently in EU research projects I encourage people to use the WIKI instead of M$ Word for collaboratively working on deliverables (typically a couple thousand pages per project, don't ask …). What has proven to be key is that people could work on the original document, with checkin and checkout and provide (forced) a comment on each edit. This way you can see what has changed in a version and read why it has been changed.
In your example you are using the Wiki only for collecting feedback on the chapters, as the users cannot edit the full text online. Therefore I would not use a Wiki for this effort but a simple discussion forum, so we have multiple threads per chapter and people (along with you / your indian lectors) could discuss proposed changes.
Alternatively (and with the permission of your publisher) you could put the whole text in a Wiki and grant access to a selected few (e.g. based on the contributions in the forums) so they can edit "in line" and save you the trouble of ammending the comments in the forums to the text. It all depends on where you want to go, but if you are keen on getting new ideas / wordings, this approach might be best. If you look for simple proof reading then we could probably just do it as it is at the moment (albeit I would still go for a discussion forum with threads).
I'm not even halfway done with your book and I've already done the email vs. phone call thing twice today. I delegated to an intern, and I will be applying more of your methods to my life. I've had a transformative past two years and read many books. Yours seems to be the catalyst – last night I put down distraction and today I'm focusing on the important stuff.
Thanks for deciding to share what you've discovered.
HI Tim:
Quick question on the editing. Are you looking for comments on what you wrote or additions? My business is a service business, so it is different than yours, but I have a lot of project management techniques that i use with my contractors that might be helpful.
Are those the kinds of suggestions you are looking for?
Hello Tim,
What an empowering book! As a wife and mom of 3 young kids in a suburban life,I had fallen into a "tolerable and comfortable existence".But inside,overwhelmed by the minutiae of daily life in an increasingly complicated technological society, I craved the passion and simplicity that I had before I was committed to this rat race.An airline employee for 13 years, I can travel as much as I want, and I have.But I still come home to such a harsh winter climate, where playgrounds are covered in ice,people scurry to get out of the cold,and the silence is thick and lonely.No matter how big the house,there's no sun, no matter how big the pool,it's frozen solid,and each day is lost because I can't buy the things I need: sounds,smells,contact with others outside, sun, warmth,freedom.So what struck a chord? A pension statement from my employer informed me that I have 18 more years to retirement. It hit me like a wall…is retirement my salvation? How can I wait till then to live my dreams? "I'm afraid to die with the best still inside me". The solution is to find a portable income,one that allows me to get away from my winter prison and come alive. I feel blessed to "have" and I want to find ways to give, because someone once said that happiness is somewhere between having too much and having too little. So thanks, Tim, for confirming that the pursuit of excitement is the true pursuit of happiness!
Sandra -
Interesting that you are outsourcing yet again and so many have agreed to redo your book for you for free which is kind of counterintuitive to your book. I think it's a bad trade, only one person can win the contest, er technically two if we count you!
Hi Renee,
LOL… I don't think it's bad, really. The readers who want to contribute will contribute, and if they provide cool and valuable additions, everyone benefits and I'll try and recognize them. The prize is just to sweeten the pot, but I don't view it as the main driver. Why do some prolific commenters comment? I think it can be very gratifying to see your ideas embraced by a community.
I donate at least 10% of my royalties to educational non-profits — is that a bad trade for me? Of course not. I give back and I feel good about myself for doing so. I think the online communities are very similar.
How are you watching the edits to be sure that someone doesn't edit someone's edits? I'm new to Wiki but when I just went in it looks like anyone could go in and either claim to have written someone else's edit by changing the name or by erasing someone's, etc.
Tim, I noticed you mention you were stuck in San Diego without a Passport in another blog. If you make it into San Diego again anytime soon, would you have time to meet up with me for lunch? I'm at a turning point in life and would like to pick your brain… I'm a former Marine turned college student who's working full time and am trying to implement the ideas found in your book and blogs. I'd ask all the questions I have in your blog, but don't want to take from the other contributors. If not, I understand-lots of fans and inquisitive minds. Hopefully you'll let me know. Either way, I'm going to get back to drinking my 2 glasses of red wine for the night.
Tim, I think this is great. However, I am currently in China and thus the great firewall (or something else maybe) is preventing me from accessing the wiki. So I was going to make a quick blurb about my thoughts here and feel free to contact me if you need more info.
I want to recommend psychology as a addendum to the book. There seems to be many things that your book talks about that studies can back up. Currently, I am reading an amazing book called Flow; The Psychology of Optimal Experience, by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. It talks about many of the things that you do in your book, but it also gives different information on how to accomplish it. Topics mentioned include a definition of happiness and how to achieve it, and being 'in the zone.' With regards to the zone it talks about how to channel psychic energy and achieve the focus you say is required to accomplish tasks efficiently.
I hope this helps!
Just had the chance to watch your Today Show interview with Matt Lauer / Donny Deutsch. I admire you for including this interview on the website because this Deutsch is either deluded or purposefully hides his true understanding of how knowledge leverage works in a market economy. He ridicules you when he knows he ascended to power using a similar anti-worker bee contrarian philosophy for himself, and then wants us to think each of us can get where he got by "working harder and longer." His remarks remind me of the opening of Marx's Communist Manifesto: "Work will set you free; you have nothing to lose but your chains." As Adorno remarked, we extort a kiss, then punish the object of the extortion." Glad to see you've exposed the false premises of guys like Deutsch. Keep up the good work Ferriss; you've been an inspiration to me as I grow my own publishing business [in the website field].
Mark Bottita
Guest Lecturer, Communication
Purdue University North Central Campus###
Thanks, Mark! Let's both keep up the good fight
Dear Tim,
I can't imagine a more time-wasting enterprise than answering fan mail (or writing it, for that matter). The exception being writing a fan email that is freely chosen as something I want to do that enhances my newly-designed life.
Tim, your book, "the 4 Hour Work Week" saved my life, and I wanted to say thank you. The story of how and why is long and not interesting to anyone who doesn't know me, and you wouldn't read it, so I'm not going to go into it. Suffice it to say that I am the person for whom you wrote that book, and I wanted you to know that I read it, and grok'd it.
Thanks Tim. I owe you one.
Beverley Eyre
Hi Tim,
I am so encouraged and enlivened by your approach to living. I tell all my friends and associates that have even a glimmer of wanting change that they should read your book. I am very certain that you and your approach to living are an essential part of transforming my life.I was at the Olympic Spa (my Friday night self care ritual) reading the section on outsourcing and was guffawing; when I got to outsourcing my inner life I was practically in tears of joyful laughter. I have had so much joy since, just thinking of that portion of the book. My point being in this thread of the the blog that inserting AJ Jacobs was a stroke of genius that completely enlisted me to what you are attempting to achieve in writing the 4 HWW. I really started to get past how envious I was of your life, and what a devotion you had to everyone having what they wanted at that section of the book. It is with a clear intention of celebrating you and your vision that I write this comment to you. I KNOW you are deeply committed to sharing with anyone that wants true joy and authenticity in their lives how to get it. This comes from a 48 year old that doesn't own a digital camera, hasn't learned yet how to download a pic on the computer, and texts like an animal that must not have been blessed with digits! I would love to assist you with edits as I have lived an out of the box life and am on the precipice of taking on the exciting challenge of becoming one of the NR.
I just visited your blog for the first time in a couple of weeks and saw this section, and I wanted to check in about the deadline as I think it said it was about now. If you are not accepting edits any longer than no reason to figure out the Wiki thing (said the mid century modern!)
I will await your answer, and am so glad to get a chance to write you and possibly contribute to you and what you are offering us all.
With much appreciation,
Jamie Hammond###
Dear Jamie,
Thank you so much for your kind words and comment! The wiki is no longer being edited, since the dates have passed, but there will be more opportunities for similar projects in the future.
Thank you again and all the best
so who won? really curious and I can find the announcement. Would someone enlighten me of it.
Congrats to the winner.
Hi Nasra,
Coming very soon. My trip to London and Copehagen was unplanned, so it slowed the announcement down a bit
Hi Guys!
The winner is coming very soon. My trip to London and Copehagen was unplanned, so it slowed the announcement down a bit
Pura vida,
Hi Tim,
there were some really useful links suggested for chapter 13 on the wiki but didn't get a chance to copy them down. Now the wiki is locked off i can't access the page with the links. Is there any possibility of making it view only or is there another way I can get those links?
Thanks in advance.
Dan -
[...] and more important, the winner of the 4HWW wiki-based editing competition is… drum roll, please… Tina PC! Tina, start looking at roundtrip flights anywhere in [...]
This is a nit that makes me crazy. The word "for" doesn't have to be in front of the word free.
'I WANT YOU to Become the Editor of a NY Times Bestseller and Travel the World free.'
Best of luck to all who entered.
[...] already incorporated many of your suggestions, but I'd love more of your resources and stories! Please take a second to look at the [...]
Appreciate your approach and dedication.How about a section in 4HWW update concerning us leading age baby boomers getting ready to pull the trigger and retire.
Big fan and thanks for bringing your unique ideas to the world. We need it! Two thoughts on the revised 4HWW:
1) I've often thought about emailing to ask that you consider a separate book on fitness (lifting) & nutrition as it pertains to the 80/20 lifestyle. I've found so much benefit in the simplicity of your approach to lifting and eating. I've sensed that this was all true but never heard it explictly articulated like you do. The reason, now more than ever I feel it's important for people to build up rather than break down. We need to be strong to face the crapola (real and contrived) that hits us daily and nightly. I think if you devoted a page or two to the simplicity of your effective workout and nutrition protocols, that would help a lot of people come out better than ever.
2) For the same reason as above, a section on goals and achievement. We hear so much about it but what have you found is possible. That is, do you believe the visualization so many talk about can really make dramatic changes in reality? Is it really possible to set a goal to triple (or more) your income in one year by setting a goal, visualizing and taking action? I think the consensus in society is "No way" and then they go back to their daily/weekly/monthly/life routines. I know it's possible because I tried it and did it. I would love to hear your take on how to radically increase your income in short time. I know Dan Kennedy teaches this and I would imagine you have a take on it. How valuable would that be to people right now???
Thanks Tim, I think you're great.
Tim: I have read the book 2 times. the only thing I can reccomend is an aproach for executives. Even that you provide examples of many different real liofe personalities, My perception and the one from other people I know they have read your book is that is more focused for young workers wanting to leave or not start the rat race but what about for top executives that want to emancipate from corporate culture. the new book should provide ideas in how to build the 4HHWW being a consolidated executive an a mature person. Since you have publish the book in many languajes, you may know that in other countries that are behind the US many people experiment your concepts in high level corporate positions. I'll love to see your commnets on this.
I'm sure if you took a poll of all the different things that people took away from your book it would be an interesting report. The line that spoke to me was on page 219 "It's too big a world to spend most of life in a cubicle."
Thanks for your example and work of showing us that there is a whole new world out there.
Thanks for the kind comment, RJ
I had the same reaction to my first book when they sent back a manuscript full of scribbles, including changes I didn't want. The way to handle copyedits like that one is simple: have a stamp made that says "STET" and ink every page, top and bottom, with it.


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The Indiana Department of Transportation announced that on Tuesday, Aug. 20, weather permitting, Ind. 19 traffic is scheduled to route to the Nunemaker Ditch runaround, located just south of C.R. 32/Madison Road (approximately 3 miles north of Wakarusa), to allow construction of a small structure over this ditch.
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The National Weather Service of Northern Indiana has issued a winter storm warning.
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We can help turn your creative vision into a creative career.
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Imagine getting a hands-on experience showcasing your work at Bonnaroo. For these students, it's real.
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The Art Institute of Washington is a branch of The Art Institute of Atlanta, and prepares students for careers in the visual and practical arts. The programs of study are carefully defined with the support and contributions of leading members of the professional community. The curriculum is reviewed periodically to ensure it meets the needs of a changing marketplace. An impressive faculty of working professionals strives to strengthen student's skills and cultivate their talents.
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DIY Perler Beads Plastic Bowl Tutorial. Some of my friends would love this project because they would obsessively sort the beads by color - and they read this blog and know who they are. Obviously a project with lots of adult supervision - do I need to write this anymore? Tutorial from How to Nest for Less here. *For other unusual (but cool) Perler Bead projects go here: truebluemeandyou.tumblr.com/tagged/perler-beads
(via rainbowsandunicornscrafts)
these, it looks cool,...the possibilities...Christmas…….
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