text:
Emerging Infectious Disease ISSN: 1080-6059
Volume 10, Number 2—February 2004
2004 SARS Edition
SARS Transmission
Atypical SARS in Geriatric Patient
Article Contents
Suggested citation for this article
We describe an atypical presentation of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in a geriatric patient with multiple coexisting conditions. Interpretation of radiographic changes was confounded by cardiac failure, with resolution of fever causing delayed diagnosis and a cluster of cases. SARS should be considered even if a contact history is unavailable, during an ongoing outbreak.
The recent discovery of the novel severe acute respiratory syndrome–associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) responsible for the outbreak of SARS (1–3) in China, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Singapore, Canada, and Taiwan has caused concern among the medical community because it spreads easily within the hospital environment. An unprecedented cooperative effort by the international medical research community has seen the rapid development of laboratory tests consisting of polymerase chain reaction (PCR), antibody testing, and virus isolation (4). However, before these tests were widely available, the disease was diagnosed on the basis of its clinical presentation, according to the World Health Organization (WHO) case definition (5). The presence of a fever of more than 38°C, essential and sentinel in the detection of SARS, has been described in papers from Hong Kong and Canada (1,6–8).
Nevertheless, these surveillance case definitions may not be sufficiently sensitive (9) as clinical features and epidemiologic case definitions may not coincide perfectly (10). We describe a case of SARS (with delayed diagnosis) and a consequent cluster of cases that resulted because of difficulty in establishing a positive contact history and atypical signs and symptoms.
Case Report
The patient was a 90-year-old Singaporean Chinese woman who was a resident of a nursing home. She had a past history of vascular dementia with dysphagia and behavioral abnormalities, ischemic heart disease with atrial fibrillation, and congestive cardiac failure. In addition, she also suffered from type 2 diabetes mellitus, hypertension, osteoporosis, bilateral osteoarthritis of the knees, and an old traumatic fracture of the left humeral neck. As such, she was fully dependent in her daily activities.
She was admitted to the geriatric department of Tan Tock Seng Hospital (11) on March 7, 2003, for pneumonia and urinary tract infection. These infections responded to a course of intravenous antimicrobial drugs. She also was assessed to have mild dysphagia, which required thickened fluids and blended diet without nasogastric feeding. Her chest radiograph before discharge showed persistent bilateral lower zone consolidation (Figure 1), consistent with bilateral crepitations on auscultation. However, the patient was afebrile and improved functionally to being ambulant with assistance. She was discharged to the nursing home on March 20.
Within the next two days, the patient progressively became breathless, with nausea and vomiting. There was no associated cough or diarrhea. She was eventually admitted to the medical department of Changi General Hospital, a designated non-SARS hospital, on March 25. On admission to the isolation room, she had a maximal tympanic temperature of 38.3°C, with defervescence the next day. She remained afebrile during the remainder of her stay. Her blood pressure was 124/84 mm Hg, pulse rate of 96 beats per minute, and respiratory rate of 32 breaths per minute. Her pulse oximetry was 100% while on 4 L per minute of intranasal oxygen. The jugular venous pressure was not elevated. Bilateral basal crepitations were heard on examination. All healthcare workers attending to the patient wore the recommended personal protective equipment, including gown, gloves, and N95 respirators, each time they entered the isolation room.
Investigations on admission showed that the patient's hemoglobin was 10.6 g/dL, leukocyte count was 7,200/mm3 (86.3% polymorphs, 8.6% lymphocytes), and platelet count was 304,000/mm3. The serum urea was 6.6 mmol/L; serum potassium, 5.0 mmol/L; serum sodium, 138 mmol/L; and creatinine, 79 μmol/L. The liver function tests showed a total bilirubin, 10.6 μmol/L; serum albumin, 30 g/L, serum alkaline phosphatase, 106 μ/L; serum alanine transaminase, 16 μ/L; serum aspartate transaminase, 33 μ/L. Her creatine kinase was 45 μ/L, and C-reactive protein was elevated at 147.0 mg/L. She was diagnosed to have aspiration pneumonia, and intravenous ceftriaxone and metronidazole were prescribed. Her chest radiograph showed infiltrates in the right lower zone. Her urine, sputum, and blood cultures did not yield any bacterial growth. Serologic testing for Mycoplasma, Legionella, and Chlamydia and nasopharyngeal aspirate for common viral antigens were not performed, as clinical suspicion was low. She was subsequently transferred to the geriatric unit. Her condition improved, and she was placed in the general ward on March 28. No protective equipment was used by staff attending her in the general ward. It was ascertained that she was previously admitted to a non-SARS ward in Tan Tock Seng Hospital.
However, on March 29, the patient became restless and more breathless. A repeat chest radiograph (Figure 2) confirmed congestive cardiac failure. Her repeat leukocyte count was 8,800/mm3 (93.0% polymorphs, 4.5% lymphocytes), and the platelet count was 167,000/mm3. There was mild hyponatremia (133 mmol/L) and worsening C-reactive protein levels (179.9 mg/L) but a stable creatine kinase (50 u/L).
Intravenous diuretic therapy was instituted, but in view of her poor premorbid functional status, the patient was not intubated or moved to in an intensive care unit. She went into respiratory failure and died on March 30. Death was certified as being caused by pneumonia, with a contributing factor of ischemic heart disease. No autopsy or postmortem specimens were taken.
In the week after the patient's death, a cluster of cases of atypical pneumonia surfaced, all of which could be traced to this patient. Pneumonia developed in the patient's daughter-in-law, who had visited her in the hospital, and two grandsons living in the same household as the daughter-in-law. Another son-in-law, who met this daughter-in-law during the funeral, also contracted a respiratory illness. A healthcare worker, who was unprotected while caring for the patient, was also admitted to Changi General Hospital for severe pneumonia. He was later transferred to Tan Tock Seng Hospital where he was diagnosed with SARS. He required prolonged mechanical ventilation and eventually died of the illness. A female hospital cleaner in Changi General Hospital, who cleaned the room and tidied the patient's bed in the general ward, became symptomatic 3 days after the patient died. She was admitted to Changi General Hospital 10 days later and was transferred to Tan Tock Seng Hospital the next day. Her husband was subsequently admitted to Tan Tock Seng Hospital with SARS. All cases in the cluster had fever as a presenting complaint. On the basis of epidemiologic data (contact tracing linking her to one of the three original index cases in Singapore) (12), the index patient's cause of death was determined to be SARS (Figure 3). Serologic testing for SARS-CoV by using enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) techniques on various specimens during admission for febrile illness were positive at titers of 400 to 6,400 for all patients within the cluster except the patient's daughter-in-law and the healthcare worker from the nursing home.
Since the issue of a global alert on atypical pneumonia by the World Health Organization on March 12, reported cases of SARS increased daily and appeared in other countries, including Canada, the United States, Europe, and Africa. The first three cases in Singapore were reported on March 13. These cases were traced to a doctor from Guangdong who infected 13 guests at a Hong Kong hotel (13). The clinical features of SARS are fairly nonspecific with a body temperature of >38°C, occurring in 100% of patients, being the most sensitive feature in all the case series published thus far (6–8). Other symptoms described thus far have included nonproductive cough, dyspnea, malaise, diarrhea, chest pain, headache, myalgia, and vomiting.
We describe here a fairly complicated atypical signs and symptoms of SARS in an elderly patient. The patient had a fever, which responded to a course of broad-spectrum antimicrobial drugs, thus behaving in a manner not much different from a typical community-acquired pneumonia. The absence of fever during the final course of the patient's hospitalization could have been caused by an altered immune response in the geriatric age group, with a resulting normal leukocyte count. Furthermore, prior usage of antimicrobial drugs and possible aspiration from dysphagia may further complicate detection of the disease. The suspicion of SARS in this case was thus low before eventual epidemiologic links were established retrospectively. Dyspnea is a common symptom reported previously, ranging from 60% to 80% of patients. Cough has also been noted in 80% to 100% of cases in previous studies (6,8). However the absence of cough, especially in the elderly, could be due to an underlying weak cough reflex. Vomiting, though present in our patient, was only accounted for in 10% of cases in the Canadian series (8). In a frail older person, this could also be caused by a number of circumstances.
Our patient had characteristic lymphopenia, which was seen in about 90% of reported cases. In addition, she also had mild hyponatremia and elevated C-reactive protein. However, thrombocytopenia, elevated transaminases, or raised creatine kinase levels were absent.
Serial chest radiograph progressed from a predominantly right lower lobe patchy consolidation to a radiographic picture of congestive cardiac failure. Reports from SARS cases have described mainly basal lung opacities, without any pleural effusion. An underlying poor cardiac function may masquerade the true picture of the air space disease characteristic of SARS, especially if the stress of infection decompensates left ventricular ejection fraction. This radiologic interpretation could potentially mislead clinicians and lead to more patients, family members, and healthcare workers becoming infected. In addition, a bimodal pattern of time to deterioration of clinical symptoms has been previously reported (14).
The information currently available on transmission of SARS has been attributed to respiratory droplets from close contact which has been defined by WHO to be having cared for, having lived with, or having direct contact with respiratory secretions or body fluids of a patient known to be a suspected SARS case. As the patient lived in a nursing home, the brief social contact during visits by family and friends, may prove sufficient for transmitting the virus.
Furthermore, the issue of possible coinfection and the influence of coexisting conditions have not been thoroughly investigated, which may change the clinical picture of SARS so as to conceal detection. Uncharacteristic clinical signs and symptoms, without any travel or contact history, are difficult to recognize.
Our case serves to highlight atypical signs and symptoms of SARS, especially the resolving fever, delay in establishing a positive contact history, and the nonspecific chest radiographic appearance that could be affected by concurrent coexisting conditions, such as cardiac failure. We wish to draw attention to clinicians, so that a high level of suspicion is present as the SARS-CoV is highly contagious and can cause severe disease. We observed that despite being cared for in the general ward by staff without full personal protective equipment, only one healthcare worker in Changi General Hospital was infected. This observation supports the hypothesis that the virus may not transmit effectively under certain conditions. Nevertheless, late diagnosis may lead to large clusters, as delayed isolation of suspect cases increases the risk of onward transmission in the community (15). A positive contact history may not be obvious, particularly in patients with cognitive impairment, until retrospective analysis is done. There is thus a need for continued surveillance of fever and clusters of pneumonia cases to improve the chances of early detection. Nonetheless, with the imminent availability of accurate and rapid diagnostic tests, there is hope that the diagnosis of SARS can be made with more certainty. This could be further enhanced by a revised case definition.
Dr. Augustine Tee is a member of the Royal College of Physicians (United Kingdom). He is currently working as a registrar in Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine at Changi General Hospital, Singapore.
We thank Leo Yee Sin and Mark Chen for their input on the case and T. Ksiazek for providing the antigen for enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays, according to their method (2).
- Peiris JSM, Lai ST, Poon LLM, Guan Y, Yam LYC, Lim W, Coronavirus as a possible cause of severe acute respiratory syndrome. Lancet. 2003;361:1319–25. DOIPubMed
- Ksiazek TG, Erdman D, Goldsmith C, Zaki SR, Peret T, Emery S, A novel coronavirus associated with severe acute respiratory syndrome. N Engl J Med. 2003;348:1956–66. DOIPubMed
- Drosten C, Gunther S, Preiser W, van der Werf S, Brodt HR, Becker S, Identification of a novel coronavirus in patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome. N Engl J Med. 2003;348:1967–76. DOIPubMed
- WHO Multicentre Collaborative Network for SARS Diagnosis. A multicentre collaboration to investigate the cause of severe acute respiratory syndrome. Lancet. 2003;361:1730–3. DOIPubMed
- Case definitions for surveillance of severe acute respiratory syndrome [monograph]. World Health Organization; 2003 [cited 2003 May 1]. Available from: URL: http://www.who.int/csr/sars/casedefinition/en/
- Tsang KW, Ho PL, Ooi GC, Yee WK, Wang T, Chan-Yeung M, A cluster of cases of severe acute respiratory syndrome in Hong Kong. N Engl J Med. 2003;348:1977–85. DOIPubMed
- Lee N, Hui DH, Wu A, Chan P, Cameron P, Joynt GM, A major outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome in Hong Kong. N Engl J Med. 2003;348:1984–94. DOIPubMed
- Poutanen SM, Low DE, Henry B, Finkelstein S, Rose D, Green K, Identification of severe acute respiratory syndrome in Canada. N Engl J Med. 2003;348:1995–2005. DOIPubMed
- Rainer TH, Cameron P, Smit D, Ong KL, Ng AWH, Chan DPN, Evaluation of WHO criteria for identifying patients with Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome out of hospital: prospective observational study. BMJ. 2003;326:1354–8. DOIPubMed
- Fisher DA, Chew MHL, Lim YT, Tambyah PA. Preventing local transmission of SARS: lessons from Singapore. Med J Aust. 2003;178:555–8.PubMed
- Severe acute respiratory syndrome—Singapore, 2003. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 2003;52:405–11.PubMed
- Hsu LY, Lee CC, Green JA, Ang B, Paton NI, Lee L, Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in Singapore: clinical features of index patient and initial contacts. Emerg Infect Dis. 2003;9:713–7.PubMed
- Update: outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome—worldwide, 2003. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep. 2003;52:241–8.PubMed
- Peiris JSM, Chu CM, Cheng VCC, Chan KS, Hung IFN, Poon LLM, Clinical progression and viral load in a community outbreak of coronavirus-associated SARS pneumonia: a prospective study. Lancet. 2003;361:1767–72. DOIPubMed
- Christl AD, Azra CG, Leung GM, Hedley AJ, Fraser C, Riley S, Epidemiological determinants of spread of causal agent of severe acute respiratory syndrome in Hong Kong. Lancet. 2003;361:1761–6. DOIPubMed
Suggested citation for this article: Tee AKH, Oh HML, Hui KP, Lien CTC, Narendran K, Heng BH et al. Atypical SARS in geriatric patient. Emerg Infect Dis [serial online] 2004 Feb [date cited]. Available from: URL: http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/10/2/03-0322.htm
Comments to the Authors
Comments to the EID Editors
Please contact the EID Editors via our Contact Form.


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Prepare your child for success in science with the Science 2 curriculum from BJU Press. Science 2 introduces God's creation while encouraging the student to think and learn like a scientist.
Science 2 (3rd edition) focuses on establishing a foundation of science facts and skills for further science learning. The colorful curriculum balances the presentation of facts with active participation in order to promote understanding and instill in your child a love of learning. Topics include the following: plants, fossils, the earth, light, matter, energy, and the human body. All lessons are presented within a biblical worldview to help your child develop knowledge of God. Furthermore, the curriculum encourages the development of critical thinking skills.
Kit includes all the necessary items for successfully teaching Science 2:

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Transition CWDM 5 Channel Mux/Demux multiplexor
Manufacturer: Transition Networks Inc. Part number: CWDM-M555LCR
at 1 online store
- CNET Editor rating: Not yet rated
- Average user rating: 0 stars No reviews, write one!
- More product information:
- User reviews
- Specifications
- Manufacturer info
- Description:
- Coarse wavelength division multiplexing (CWDM) is a technology which multiplexes multiple optical carrier signals on to a single optical fiber by using different wavelengths of light to carry each individual signal. Benefits of using CWDM include increased capacity on routes with fiber exhaustion and a more affordable alternative to installing more fiber or leasing additional fibers. Utilizing passive optical CWDM ... Read more
Where to buy
store | customer rating | inventory | tax & shipping | price |
| In stock | Enter zip code to get total price: Price +Tax +Shipping =Total price | as of 03/14/2014 |
*Total price for the Transition CWDM 5 Channel Mux/Demux multiplexor are estimated and may vary slightly based on exact tax, shipping, manufacturer rebate or any sale/promotion on the merchant site.


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I have a couple hundred cogo points with all different descriptions. is there a way to add "use these" to the beginning of all the nodes at once?
Solved! Go to Solution.
Yes. Select the points, or have a Point Group with them in it, Edit the points, select all in the Panorama, right-click the header for Description Format, select Edit, place this in the edit box:
use these - $*
hit enter. All of the Full descriptions will then have the "use these -" plus the raw description. Now, if you already use the Full description modifiers, then you might need to go about it a bit differently. i.e. programatically.
that worked great, thanks Jeff.
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text:
Links of Interest
Distance to Downtown Chicago
20 miles
Average Drive Times
40 minutes to Chicago Loop
20 minutes to O'Hare Airport
45 minutes to Midway Airport
Express Train Commute to Loop
35 minutes
Known as the "Village of Friendly Living," residents agree that Northbrook is one of the most desirable communities in the Chicagoland area. Northbrook keeps both residential life and industrial growth in harmony. Abundant forest preserve land affords the community seclusion and tranquility. A wide variety of architectural styles are represented throughout the village.
Commuters are serviced by the Milwaukee Road Railroad in the center of town and the Chicago & Northwestern train in adjacent communities. Express commute time to the Loop is 35 minutes. Both the Tri-State Tollway (I-294) and the Edens Expressway (I-94) are easily accessible. Bus service is also available.
Nine elementary schools and four junior high schools serve the area. High school students attend Glenbrook High School, a comprehensive high school meeting the needs of all students. Traditionally, standardized test scores are among the highest in the state. An extensive academic program and a strong elective program highlight the curriculum. Extensive learning facilities include state-of-the-art computer labs, radio and TV studios, a fully-automated library, photography labs, dance studio, indoor pool, and a new multipurpose indoor fieldhouse.
Twenty-three interscholastic sports programs are offered in addition to a highly popular intramural program. Debate and Individual Event programs are nationally ranked.
Northbrook Court features 140 stores including anchors Lord & Taylor, Marshall Fields, and Neiman Marcus. The mall opens early every morning to accommodate walkers and joggers. Downtown Northbrook features small shops and grocery stores. Specialty shopping can be found throughout the community.
The village of Northbrook provides a wide range of year-round recreational opportunities for all ages. The Glenbrook North High School Center for the Performing Arts, a multi-million dollar 1500-seat facility, hosts the Northbrook Symphony Orchestra as well as high school theater activities. The Leisure Center, Senior Center, community golf courses, tennis courts, Aquatic Center, and over 300 acres of park land are among other amenities.
The Northbrook Velodrome, one of only 12 quarter-mile bike tracks in the nation, holds weekly U.S. Cycling Federation races during the summer. The Sports Complex features two indoor ice arenas. Northbrook has frequently been called the "Speed Skating Capital of the World". As Northbrook's information center, the Northbrook Public Library is one of the most heavily utilized community facilities.
Northbrook is served by several excellent medical and surgical centers, all within a ten-mile radius. Some of these include Glenbrook, Evanston, Highland Park, and Lutheran General Hospitals. Each is noteworthy in providing quality health care.
Places of Worship
Northbrook incorporates 22 worship facilities representing many different denominations.


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I am a SAHM and am planning on going back to school when I get up north. I am open to new ideas and experiances and love to talk. |
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John Chesterman (left) of John Deere describes the features of the first two hybrid-fuel end loaders at an event in Davenport. Listening to Chesterman are RJS officials David Lemke, Pete Weidman, Lance Lindahl, Steve Picha and Dustin Waldo. RJS plans to put the two end loaders to work on Northland job sites later this spring. (Photo by Rob Karwath)
Read the article: Superior company buys John Deere's first hybrid end loaders


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- Use a distfile in tarball instead of one in rpm. - Remove CONFLICTS. All of the localized versions can coexist now. - Update the localized versions to 7.0.5 if possible. - Add support for print/acroreadwrapper. Discussed with: netchild and mezz PR: ports/90319
Number of ports [& non-ports] in this commit: 15
Showing files for just one port: portuguese/acroread
show all files
hide all files
Servers and bandwidth provided byNew York Internet, SuperNews, and RootBSD
13 vulnerabilities affecting 22 ports have been reported in the past 14 days
* - modified, not new
All vulnerabilities


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Fresh off taking two of three from the New York Mets at Citi Field in the most recent Subway Series the New York Yankees return to Yankee Stadium, and to American League action, Monday night. The Yankees open a seven-game homestand Monday with the first of three games against the Cleveland Indians.
The Yankees (43-28) lead the American League East by 2.5 games over the Baltimore Orioles. The Indians (37-34) are in second place in the AL Central, only a half-game behind the Chicago White Sox.
Hiroki Kuroda (6-7, 3.57 ERA) pitches Monday for the Yankees. Kuroda, in his first season in the American League after four seasons with the Los Angeles Dodgers, has never pitched against Cleveland. The Indians will start Josh Tomlin (3-4, 5.12 ERA). Tomlin's first career victory came against the Yankees during the 2010 season.
Here are the probable pitchers for the rest of the series:
- Tuesday: Phil Hughes, Yankees (7-6, 4.94 ERA) vs. Justin Masterson (4-6, 3.98 ERA)
- Wednesday: Andy Pettitte, Yankees (3-3, 3.29 ERA) vs. Ubaldo Jimenez (7-5, 4.59 ERA)
-- See Pinstripe Alley for complete discussion and analysis of the Yankees


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Green Festival Exhibitors
Los Angeles 2013
Exhibitors are companies that have have passed the Green America screening process for leadership in social and environmental responsibility and have earned the Green America Seal of Approval for their commitment. Focused on business as a tool for positive change, these values-driven, green business leaders are committed to sustainable practices. To learn more about the screening process, click here.
Beautiful titanium jewelry/bracelets & pendants for men and women
Sophisticated wild crafted products - net profits to charity!
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Our success depends on healthy, sustainable communities, so we seek to ensure that as we do business, natural resources are protected and environmental, social and economic needs are part of the work we do. We are finding new ways to minimize our energy consumption, address climate change and use renewable sources of energy. Our commitment focuses on three areas: encouraging stronger communities, accelerating a "greener" economy, and reducing the environmental impact of our operations. Since 2008, we've been building LLEED-certified stores, and are committed to finding new ways to minimize our energy consumption and use renewable sources of energy.
Education, research & activism to return real food to our plates
Whole Life Times has been the nexus of L.A.'s holistic community for more than 33 years. Our grassroots publication prints on FSC-certified paper and covers community news, sustainability and green living, integrative health, personal growth and practical spirituality. We include activism, social justice and progressive politics as they relate to our mission, and keep readers informed with monthly e-newsletters and social media. Join us on Facebook and Twitter, and at wholelifemagazine.com for free delivery of our digital edition.
Uniquely effective herbal remedies, family-tested since 1979.
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Educates students to become exceptional practitioners of TCM.
Yo San University promotes standards of educational excellence in the field of Traditional Chinese Medicine, while establishing a program in this country that fosters the Taoist roots of this field of Medicine. YSU focuses on prevention, balance and wellness thru acupuncture, qigong, herbal medicine, tuina, nutrition, research, integration and specialization.
Phone: 310-577-3000
PO Box 324, Mullumbimby, New South Wales, Australia, 2482 - View Map
Durable/flexible material made of cellulose from recycled fibers
Remember when you wanted to change the world - make it a better place? It's not too late. Join the Zeoform Revolution - it's about how we make, use and dispose of our everyday stuff. Zeoform is a technology of the future that we want to put in your hands today.
Phone: +61 (0)2 6684 4553


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I don't see it anywhere, but can the side door be placed on either side? I would assume so, but you know...
Had a custom wood 10x12 shed built for $2600 by a local builder... Def would never pay over 300 for anything like this. This is junk... people who buy this are impulse buyers or people who will NEVER use it. If your serious about your sheds (which for over $500 you really should be anyways), then know better than to buy this junk... Get something you will have in 30 years, get something you can toss a ball with your kid and not worry about putting big dents in the sides of your shed, get something you can actually put a 10' ladder in standing up...
I will be moving in 2 years, and need a temporary storage area. If I had one built, It would have to stay. this "junk that i will never use" is actually exactly what I need. |
Bought this shed last summer ($50 more than current price) and it's great. It has lasted through Sandy and Nemo. Snow just rolls off because of the angle of the roof. It ships by a 3rd party who schedule a delivery date and time and it comes in 4 big boxes. My first deliver was damaged and Amazon sent a replacement and took the damaged one away. It's big too - had to get a permit from the town since it was larger than 100 sq. ft. so check with your city/town before putting this up. It was actually a PITA to deal with the town since they wanted a survey, restricted where it can be placed on the property, and inspected it after it was built. You have to build a base if you don't already have a level surface. Took around 7 hours for 2 people to put up. It's a great sturdy shed and holds a lot of stuff - lawn mower, bikes, snow blower, stacked patio chairs, ladders, bbq grill, even have two 4 shelf racks in there.
The fact that you expect us to believe your when you have no basis or merit is even funnier. So, pardon me mr thread crapper if i choose to believe people that....you know....actually have the product and experience with it. All the reviews say contrary to your ignorant opinion of the product. 29 reviews and 4.5 stars, that's amazing. That doesn't even count the great testimonials in this thread. Move along and thanks for playing. |
Last edited by namlook; 02-16-2013 at 04:30 PM.. |
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May 17, 2013 | 10:20 AM | Weilyn Loo
Tags JFE Steel, Jiaxing JFE Precision Steel, Marubeni-Itochu Steel, Kawasaki Kokan, Shuan Hwa Industrial, steel pipe, automotive pipe, ERW pipe cold-drawn pipe
SINGAPORE Japanese steelmaker JFE Steel Corp. has signed a joint-venture agreement to set up a steel pipe plant in Chinas Zhejiang province to target automotive producers, it said May 16. The new company, Jiaxing JFE Precision Steel Pipe Co. Ltd., will manufacture and sell small-diameter electric-resistance welding (ERW) pipes and cold-drawn steel pipes. It will employ about 100 people, JFE Steel said.....
SINGAPORE Japanese steelmaker JFE Steel Corp. has signed a joint-venture agreement to set up a steel pipe plant in Chinas Zhejiang province to target automotive producers, it said May 16.
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Will more metals companies discontinue health care coverage for their employees in light of the Affordable Care Act?
June 20-21, 2013 New York
Billet is the strongest part of the aluminum business right now. ... I can't pinpoint exactly why (but) ... some customers are ordering double what they did last year.
--Aluminum trader


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Bow hunt eland on foot in Namibia
This is a discussion on Bow hunt eland on foot in Namibia within the Hunts OFFERED or WANTED Worldwide forums, part of the Hunting Forums - Hunting in Africa category; All bow hunters, want to challenge yourself? Bow hunt in one of Namibia's premier eland hunting areas, hunting on foot ...
- Member of NAPHA, SCI, Dallas Safari Club
- Hunted Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, South Africa and Tanzania
Bow hunt eland on foot in Namibia
All bow hunters,
want to challenge yourself?
Bow hunt in one of Namibia's premier eland hunting areas, hunting on foot during the eland rut.
November may be hot in Namibia, but during the eland rut you can wade into breeding herds of eland numbering in their hundreds.
Shots will be between 15 - 30 yards of the most heart stopping action you have ever experienced.
Waiting for an eland bull to "click" into the opening will be a memory you will remember for the rest of your life.
Other plains game species also available.
Please note buffalo and leopard are not huntable with a bow in Namibia.
Kind regards
Hi Joffie
This is absolutely possible.
We hunted Burchel Zebra this year.
It was a walk ans stalk bow hunt!
Then a bow hunter also nearly took a Giraffe. The hunters father has taken a Giraffe.
He hunted most animals by bow.
A difficult bow hunt is a Duiker, Steenbuck or Dik-Dik when the grass is long!
Eland is ok!
Giraffe, well he is so tall that he sees you before you has sighted him.
- Member of KZN Hunters Assoc
- Hunted Namibia (Otavi, Ozondjache) South Africa ( LP, KZN, NC, EC) Botswana (Ghanzi) Canada (BC, AB, SK, MB, Ont, PQ, NS) USA (MT, WA, SD, CA, CO, WY, KS, MN, NC, VG, UT, HI)
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Sounds like a very interesting hunt.
Have to put that one on the list.
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text:
Lip Gloss, Tempest 0.28 oz (8 g)
- Color
- Tempest
Offers & Perks
Tempest: Warm rose Serious shine and sexy color in sheer, creamy and semi-sheer formulas. Extremely wearable and versatile shades may be worn alone or over other lip products for heightened drama.
NARS Cosmetics, Inc. |
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Reviewed by 1 customer
Displaying review 1
- Great shine
- Nice Variety of Colors
- Very good consistency
- Can be a bit sticky
Best Uses
- Everyday
- Over lipstick
Comments about NARS Lip Gloss, Tempest, .28 oz:
I generally use this over lipstick to add shine. The consistency is just about right where it stays on well. Great selection of colors. I've noticed that certain colors (such as Dolce Vita) seemed a bit thicker/stickier. Overall I really like the product and always have it on hand.
Displaying review 1


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POV at the W Hotel Washington DC
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POV at the W Hotel Washington DC
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515 15th Street, NW
Washington, DC 20004
Getting there ›
Tapas / Small Plates
$30 and under
More Details ›
POV at the W Hotel Washington DC Details
Dining Style:
Casual Elegant
(202) 661-2478
Hours of Operation:
Terrace Opens daily at 11am
Lounge Opens at 6pm Thursday through Saturday
Food is served until 9pm. Bars stay open late.
Reservations do not guarantee indoor or outdoor seating requests.
Payment Options:
AMEX, Discover, MasterCard, Visa
Tapas / Small Plates, Bar / Lounge / Bottle Service
Executive Chef:
Culinary Concepts by Jean-Georges
Dress Code:
Smart Casual
Accepts Walk-Ins:
Additional Details:
Bar Dining, Bar/Lounge, Beer, Dancing, Entertainment, Full Bar, Late Night, Non-Smoking Area, Non-Smoking Restaurant, Patio/Outdoor Dining, Smoking Area, View, Weekend Brunch, Wheelchair Access, Wine
Parties of 6 to 40 can be booked via our Large Party Reservation by emailing email@example.com. Food and beverage minimums apply.
Private Party Facilities:
Large Party reservations of 6 to 40 can be secured through POV reservations by emailing email@example.com. Food and Beverage minimums apply. 21 and older after 5pm daily. 24-hour cancellation policy.
DJ Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights
Special Events & Promotions:
Parties of 6 to 40 can be booked via our Large Party Reservation by emailing firstname.lastname@example.com. Food and beverage minimums apply.
Getting there
Cross Street:
F Street
Public Transit:
Accessible via Metro Center Station.
Parking Details:
Valet Parking only. $30 per car. Enter via 15th St. and F intersection, on F street side.
A word from POV at the W Hotel Washington DC
The famed rooftop terrace has been transformed W style!
This bar, for decades, has provided what are known as
the best views of the White House and the city's soaring
historic monuments.
Serving craft cocktails and featuring a dynamic group of wines and champagnes by
the glass or bottle. Join us for lunch, after work cocktails, or late-night bottle service.
A food menu that is small plate themed produced by Culinary Concepts by Jean-Georges.
Reservations are accepted for parties of 5 or less via Opentable.com
Walk in parties are always welcome, although standing bar side and long wait times may be the only available option.
21 and over after 5pm. Dress code enforced nightly.
Reservation party size must be fully present in the Living Room of the W.
Late night table minimums are required for table service after 9pm on Fridays and Saturday
Foodspotting photos
See all photos >
Awards voted by OpenTable diners
Diners' Choice Winner
Hot Spot
Diners' Choice Winner
Outdoor Dining
Diners' Choice Winner
Scenic View
Diner Reviews
luckily it turned out to be one of
the nice weather days and they had the patio open (no window covers) and outdoor heaters. drinks are on the pricey side but that's the price you pay for such an awesome view!"
Dined on 3/8/2014
We had a great time - the view was
impressive and the heaters and the sun made it warm and toasty. Just a great time in the company of great friends with good cocktails and food made it most pleasurable."
Dined on 2/28/2014
This is the place you want to go
to for drinks. NOT a place to eat- the food was so greasy and they made an awful amount of substitutions- had i known i wouldn't have ordered any. The horsdoeuvres we ordered tasted like they came from a freezer straight to the deep fryer. Tasteless, oily, fatty, just gross. Their cocktails are great, their wine menu is good. the view is absolutely fabulous. Don't count on this place for dinner. Pre dinner spot or after dinner cocktails only."
Dined on 2/16/2014
Great bar with wonderful views of
the Whitehouse, cocktails are a must - Mojito was v.nice! Vibrant bar scene but not overcrowded. Will be sure to return to this bar very soon."
Dined on 2/22/2014
I made a reservation at POV on the
advice of a friend. My husband & I were in town to celebrate his 40th birthday & needed somewhere to unwind, have a late lunch/drinks before meeting friends later in the evening. When we arrived we were seated right in front of an open "window" section @ a table for 2. Within a few moments were greeted by our waitress w/ champagne for each of us. I'd mentioned it was my husbands bday, but wasn't expecting this lovely touch. We ordered shrimp cocktail, calamari & a sandwich--all of which were tasty. The service was attentive and because the weather was lovely (sunny & 60 in Feb) it was a beautiful visit. I found the crowd ecclectic, w/ groups of tourists, wealthy 20-somethings & families. Overall an A."
Dined on 2/22/2014
It was so very cold. I understand
though there is a limited number of heaters. However, we didn't get to sit next to one and it was very cold. Nonetheless, incredible view."
Dined on 2/15/2014
Stayed at the W Hotel in DC for
just a quick night and decided to try out POV for brunch on Sunday. Although it had a fantastic view of the White House and other DC buildings, the menu was a little small. It was not what I was expecting at all - there were only a handful of items and nothing that looked like you could modify it to fit your needs. I had the 7 Grain French Toast and it was very good. Service was... uh? Alright? She gave us some random face expressions like she was either too busy to serve us or surprised that we were not finishing our plates. We had to request additional drinks and the bill - otherwise she would have continued to walk by. Overall, it was good, but not great...."
Dined on 2/2/2014
The W is a really nice hotel and
this is located on the top floor. Saturday lunch was quiet and had plenty of empty tables, however, we had a reservation as suggested to us to ensure we had no problems getting a table. The view was great of the DC mall and White House, however, the view is covered by semi clear plastic due to the outside temperatures. The food was fresh and hot, and order was mostly correct. The BLT was missing the LT, but quickly corrected. The restaurant was clean and the seating was soft and laid back. I did feel as if I were sitting on a futon eating on a small round table, but it was enjoyable. We look forward to a return visit during the warmer weather during the evening for the view and night life."
Dined on 2/1/2014
great view, good food, perfect for
a date or dinner with friends"
Dined on 1/22/2014
Took some out-of-town guests to
POV to enjoy the view. Even in the freezing cold the bar was hopping with energy. Drinks were good and our server was attentive and friendly."
Dined on 1/8/2014
Generally a decent venue, but they
have not solved the problem of how to keep the place warm (it is a rooftop). If they can't solve this they should just close it on cold days."
Dined on 1/23/2014
Love the view from the W. My
favorite place to take friends visiting from out of town. It is a great place to unwind after a day of sight seeing and gives some perspective of the city. Love the service, food, and drinks too!"
Dined on 1/12/2014
Good for drinks and a sunset over
DC. Don't expect good u less you want to pay a lot."
Dined on 1/17/2014
A place to go for a special
occasion that would be just as comfortable for a "little" lunch. Food and service excellent. Try the chicken samosas."
Dined on 12/30/2013
Great place to grab drinks with
out if town guests."
Dined on 12/30/2013
Overall a great experience!!! The
prompt seating which seemed like the best seat in the house was amazing. The view was one of the best I have ever seen and where you want to be. Now it's mainly a bar type resteraunt so that means they only have small plates, so if you are hungry please keep going this is not the place for you. This is a great niche place with hands down the best location/view in D.C. If your looking for a drink and a place to conversate with a friendly staff and great view, then this is your place."
Dined on 1/1/2014
We went here for a few drinks, a
small meal and the view. We split a small pizza and had a total of 3 drinks. The food was tasteless and the drinks were weak and overpriced. While the view was nice, we could have enjoyed it for free. While we were there, at least 30 people wandered in solely to enjoy the view, then left again. It felt like we paid over $50 to sit in a lobby with large windows."
Dined on 12/22/2013
Great location for drinks. Can't
beat the view of DC."
Dined on 12/28/2013
If only you could eat the view!
Better for a drink, and dinner at the restaurant downstairs."
Dined on 12/24/2013
As advertised in the Washington
Post, the view is great, very touristy. However, none of the hot drinks advertised were avaialable as the "weather was too warm." Very disappointing. It was cold in the main bar. Almost too cold. This is to be expected on the porch area, but not within the main bar. Great if you want an impressive view or to impress guest and tourists, would not go back otherwise."
Dined on 12/22/2013
The appetizers are great for a
meal of several tastes, Jalapeno cheese balls are fantastic, calamari was perfectly prepared and chicken wrapped in soft dough was absolutely one of the best tapas I have ever had."
Dined on 12/19/2013
Had reservations. Hostess got our
name, then forgot to seat us until we asked her again. Had a drink, but was never asked about food. The view is beautiful and the outdoor bar scene seemed very active."
Dined on 12/19/2013
I took my girlfriend there on a
Saturday afternoon to propose. They fulfilled my request for a semi-private area and gave us a bottle of champagne and cheesecake after I popped the question on the house. The view was great even for a snowny day and the service was great. They gave us enough privacy but also everyone knew afterward that I had indeed just proposed so everyone dining gave us a quick hand of congratulations which was a nice touch! I would definitely recommend P.O.V especially for the views of DC."
Dined on 12/14/2013
POV experience was not worth the
effort. We waited ten minutes and no wait staff appeared to take our drink or food order. My guest finally had to go search out hotel staff to take our order. When the drinks got there, delivered by my guests, the drinks were of poor quality. The food wasn't much better. Sorry I took my out of town guests there."
Dined on 11/29/2013
This is a fun,stylish must when in
DC. Great views and buzz plus well presented tapas and good winelist. Make sure you get a reservation!"
Dined on 11/19/2013
I had made a reservation for 6 and
the table was immediately ready and waiting. Based on the lounge's web site, we were expecting a more "up-scale" or dressy location, but quickly determined that it's almost anything-goes--even saw a hoodie (it was rather cold and windy outside). Perhaps the casualness is because of the earlier time of day we arrived (i.e., 4:00pm???) Anyway, our waiter/server Matt was exceptional and made our first experience very comfortable. Next time I would be interested in being seated on a window for the view. Given that I identified myself as a first-timer during the reservation process, it would have been icing on the cake to have been placed next to the view. Music was interesting--DJ in the corner :-)"
Dined on 11/24/2013
Overall it was a nice place. I
just wish the music being played was a variety of pop, hip hop and r&b."
Dined on 11/17/2013
So after reserving our table for 3
- 3 weeks - in advanced we were fairly pumped come POV night. After being stuck in terrible traffic we arrived 40 minutes late, we had called ahead and told them there was a car crash on 295 ( big surprise for us all ) they ended up honoring our reservation -though with slight attitude- and were seated immediately after arriving. Drinks were all great, but vastly expensive. If I remember correctly it was at about 28 bucks for the Mojito and Jacket I got, seemed a little steep for the drinks. But they were good, best Mojito I've ever had didn't much care for the Jacket though my friend liked it. Food: phenomenal, the menu was small so we nearly tried everything, and nothing disappointed."
Dined on 11/7/2013
I had several guests in DC for the
first time and they loved being at the POV. We sat under a heater and brought us throws...we were so comfortable and had such a good time. The food was excellent and our service was superb."
Dined on 11/12/2013
This location cannot be topped -
it has the best view in the District. But, the service was lacking (despite having come in at 3:30 on a weekday), and the food and wine were far overpriced. The only reasons to come are the ambiance and the view, really."
Dined on 11/15/2013
The food was pretty good,
especially the samosas. However, I had originally thought that it was an actual restaurant, not just a bar with some good light food/snacks. Maybe, somehow, we ended up on the wrong side of the restaurant and got only the terrace bar, but the reservation seemed simple. Maybe I misread the online menu, or picked something wrong when reserving. Besides that, the furniture was annoying to eat at, but good for lounging."
Dined on 11/10/2013
Great view with lousy food and
servers with attitude."
Dined on 11/6/2013
Food was mediocre, drinks a little
pricey, but you just cannot beat a sunset over the national mall and White House. Worth it for the view and outdoor environment."
Dined on 11/3/2013
This place is absolutely amazing!
The food was delicious, the service was awesome, and the atmosphere was perfect! I can't wait to go back!"
Dined on 11/2/2013
This place has lost its edge.
Looks nothing like the photos on the website. Folks in baseball caps, flipflops and hoodies. Jean-Georges Vongerichten should re-visit this place and decide whether he wants his name affiliated with the 'cuisine'"
Dined on 11/3/2013
Great way to "take in" the scenery
and the scene. Will return when in the area again."
Dined on 11/3/2013
This was the highlight of our and
our friend's trip! Excellent service, amazing view of DC, great drinks and unique appetizers. This is the place to relax, unwind with friends for happy hour or mid afternoon drinks. Perfect time of day to enjoy the view in the fall. Make sure to make advance reservations. The staff is very accommodating and friendly."
Dined on 10/25/2013
If you want the best restaurant
view in Washington DC (we watched a helicopter land on the White House lawn - from above) and you aren't looking for a meal that's low-priced or a menu with a lot of choices, then try POV atop the W hotel. We went for lunch, and we wanted light food and a great view. We got it. My coffee was $5 and excellent and my Caesar salad was $11, generous on greens, and above average dressing. My friend's sandwich was large and pleased her. The waitress was adequate. The pepper mill was kept under lock and key for unknown reasons. We enjoyed the view and the heat lamps kept us warm. I'd recommend the place for drinks and snacks, and I'd go again for lunch on another perfectly clear day. Not crowded."
Dined on 10/25/2013
Finally got a reservation!!
Beautiful location. Absolutely stunning view. Food? Meh! Do not order the calamari. $14 for about 8 pieces of overcooked and flavorless seafood. The pepper shrimp and soft chicken buns were good. The beef on the beef skewers was pounded to death and the consistency of baby food. I don't know about you but i like my beef tender but with at least a little bite. Drinks incredibly overpriced. $15 for a french martini, $17 for a patron margarita. Highway robbery. Have dinner first and show up halfway to your intoxication limit and nurse 1 drink and share a small plate or dessert."
Dined on 10/21/2013
The spectacular view makes up for
the lackluster food and the over-priced drinks. Go at sunset and make sure to note the men walking on the roof of the White House!"
Dined on 10/19/2013
More reviews ›
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Washington, D.C. Area Winners
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Dangerous and intellegent individual. Known as "The Baron". Delivers merciless beatings to those who have it coming. On a personal vendetta against the Northside of Dublin. Chastiser pretty boys, chavs and yuppies. Often refers to people as 'shitboxes'.
Stu says: "C'mere you little shitbox or ill shit on your mother." (followed by high pitched laugh)
by Don-Wagon
July 02, 2006
A disco maniac who lives to get down
"Disco Stu likes Disco Music..."
by Discofever
September 30, 2003
Small Town Ugliness Syndrome (STUS) is the probability that people living in small towns are unattractive and is caused by a number of things such as inbred children and nuclear testing in the water supply.
"Dude, have you gone to Roswell, NM or Andover, KS?? Everyone has STUS..."
by BobbyLight13
July 11, 2010


text:
Notebook: MSU's Jankoska shines at PG vs. rival U-M
First, her eyes began rolling. Then came the muttered laughter. Michigan State women's basketball coach Suzy Merchant was listening to freshman shooting guard-turned-point guard Tori Jankoska explain her decision not to pass to an open Annalise Pickrel late in the Spartans' 61-58 victory over Michigan on Friday night in the second-round Big Ten tournament game.
- Mar. 8, 2014


text:
Those are awesome! I like them a lot
So I decorate for halloween thanksgiving and Christmas...I always try and get a little Disney in there...well since there isn't a trip in my near/distant future. I have done this...
yes that's me in my pj's after just after putting my own Hitch Hiking Ghost in our front yard....hubby made them a few years ago, but it's the first year we have had them out front
i also made and decorate from scratch, Mickey Pumpkin shaped cookies...i'll post those pics in a bit
so what do you think?
Lovin' Disney since 1982
Those are awesome! I like them a lot
They look great, he did a nice job making them.
I love it, where did you ever find them? That looks great!!!!!!!!!! "Tinkerchelli"
that's weird i could have sworn i replied to this..any way
tinkerchelli, my husband made them, he cut them out of plywood, the paint is fluorescent, and the eyes are painted with glow in the dark paint and the black is done with a sharpie
Lovin' Disney since 1982
I love them, I want them!
Great job! Thanks for sharing! Now you just need the attic bride!
Nice work! Last Halloween, I carved a Jack Skellington pumpkin and this year I plan to make a Mickey pumpkin - 1 big with 2 little ones as ears and a face carved in the big one.
we have an upstairs window a bride would be great!!...now...how to do that....hummm....
i should have my hubby do the specs in the computer, and you guys can download them....maybe...
Lovin' Disney since 1982
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found 2 items where the city is Goodsprings and the state is Nevada. Showing page 1 of 1. |
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Clark County School District. Goodsprings Elementary School. ( Goodsprings, Nevada United States) Clark County, NV. Goodsprings Library. ( Goodsprings, Nevada United States) [web site ] [online catalog] [Millennium] |
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text:
3,051 views
Everyone does Ichigo tributes but I wanted to do one about Ichigo and his mother because that mini arc was very touching. It made me want to cry, but anyway, hope you all like the video.
Please add a name and description in order to save your playlist to your user profile.


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February 5, 2013, 01:22 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 12, 2010
Location: Lake Martin, AL
Posts: 1,514
Unreported Income
This is just a guess on my part since it is so prevalent in our current society. I could also use the example of cutting and deliverying firewood. Is this possliby the reason some gun sellers do not want to go through a background check procedure? There will be a tracable income record?
Is there so much untaxed reveune on some seller's parts that will have them garner sells to any private party without a Federal Firearms License? If so, these sellers should have a FFL I am sorry guys, but I worked to dang many years of my life and paid income taxes to feel sorry for some broker looking for a loop hole to hide their income. If so, I think this goes way beyound gun control and more to tax evasion. Why in the heck jeopardise my firearm rights with your illegal tax evasion scheme? |
February 5, 2013, 01:28 AM | #2 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 29, 2010
Location: The ATL (OTP)
Posts: 2,457
A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman |
February 5, 2013, 02:32 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 29, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,097
Not reporting income has nothing to do with wanting to keep firearms transaction between individuals private, that is not reporting to the govt.
For one thing, background checks do not prevent crime and some reports state there have nearly zero prosecutions for failed background checks. So the entire premise of background checks somehow making anyone safer is a fallacy. Criminals usually steal guns or trade for guns amongst themselves so they would never be affected by background checks. This was true even before background checks were mandated for FFLs. Do you really think a criminal wants to pay full retail for a gun he is likely to throw away after his next use? Secondly, background checks cost money. They are run through your state's law enforcement branch and cost at least $10 each time. Not a huge amount but it is $10 flushed down the toilet for no good purpose. Background checks are a burden to the law-abiding, have no effect on safety, and create a tempting data source for govt to abuse its role and retain that data in lieu of an outright registry.
"The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison
February 5, 2013, 10:42 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Unreported income for dealers? Seriously, lamarw....
An FFL dealer does not have the legal option NOT to conduct the check. He is required to use the 4473 and NICS. A private seller, so far as I know, does not need to report the sale of personal property that is not used as part of a business. For the most part, I suspect private sellers often as not sell at a loss, in any case. Edit: Speaking of "jeopardizing my rights," I have noticed a general pattern that this go-around, shooters who like EBRs and higher capacity magazines are looking at background checks as a sacrifice fly to protect their own interests. We need to stand together as gun owners and refuse a renewed AWB, capacity ban, and background checks. |
February 5, 2013, 10:59 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 3,520
"We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." (Benjamin Franklin did say this, and he was right.)
Thomas Jefferson never said that. http://www.monticello.org/site/jeffe...ous-quotations |
February 5, 2013, 11:26 AM | #6 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,071
Not at all an issue for me as buyer or seller... I am of the ilk that prefers to have less hoops to jump thru and money to spend as well as not minding owning a few arms that are just like my TV set... NOT REGISTERED...
Brent |
February 5, 2013, 12:29 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,165
It's probably true that casual sales of personal property at a profit don't get reported, and in general the amounts involved are probably trivial enough not to attract any attention.
Formerly known as fiddletown |
February 5, 2013, 12:33 PM | #8 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,071
Isn't there a minimum price of sale that must be met before reporting is even required???
And isn't this, between private parties, on a "per transaction" type schedule??? Brent |
February 5, 2013, 12:35 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Frank Ettin, I suspect you are right, but I can't remember the last thing I sold at a profit.
February 5, 2013, 12:53 PM | #10 |
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 9,261
It runs deeper than the matter of income. If I want to give a gun as a gift, I'd have to do the check. If I inherit, pass down, or loan a gun, I'd also have to do the check.
The opposition is to a measure that's overbearing and ineffective.
In the depth of winter I finally learned that there was in me an invincible summer. --Albert Camus |
February 5, 2013, 04:35 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 15, 2011
Posts: 1,332
I still stand by my earliest comments.
1st This is not what the Federal Government is empowered to do. 2nd They don't work anyway. 3rd They can't work without becoming a registration process. and .... 4th The effort trying to shove this down our throats, and us trying to fight it, is just getting in the way of figuring out what the cause of the actual problem is.
Colt M1911, AR-15 | S&W Model 19, Model 27| SIG P238 | Berreta 85B Cheetah | Ruger Blackhawk .357MAG, Bearcat "Shopkeeper" .22LR| Remington Marine Magnum SP 12GA., Model 700 SPS .223 |
February 5, 2013, 05:40 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,728
My reasons for opposing Universal Background Checks have nothing to do with money. The majority of the time that I sell a firearm, I do so on consignment through an FFL and thus pay a commission equal to or greater than the income or capital gains tax that I'd be charged on the profit anyway. I do this because I feel that it's my personal responsibility to do everything I reasonably can to ensure that I don't sell a firearm to a prohibited person and consigning through an FFL is usually the easiest way to do this.
That being said, attempting to legislate personal responsibility almost never works well. Said legislation is usually either toothless and unenforceable (a straw purchase, for example, can be an incredibly difficult thing to prove) or the measures needed to make it enforceable are so repressive as to become unintended consequences in and of themselves. In the case of Universal Background Checks, there is simply no way to make such a system work without registration of guns, gun owners, or both. While Universal Background Checks on its face might not seem so unreasonable, registration is a Pandora's box in and of itself. Probably the most obvious example of why registration is a bad idea is the recent debacle with The Journal News in New York. A database of lawful gun owners simply makes it all the easier for unscrupulous journalists to identify and attempt to intimidate them. The second, and most compelling, reason that registration is a bad idea is that it facilitates gun confiscation by over zealous officials in a time of disaster such as what we saw in New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in 2005. While that measure was later ruled illegal and several states and the federal gov't later took legislative action to ensure it would not be repeated, it still took many people years to recover their property if ever recovered at all. In spite of the subsequent court rulings and laws, if some bureaucrat decides to ignore the law and try this again, a person's only recourse will be through the courts and that cannot help them when cops and/or soldiers are demanding their firearms right then and there. Finally, I resent the notion that I should somehow be held responsible for the illegal actions of someone else. If we actually punished crime and treated mental illness appropriately, background checks in general would be unnecessary. I for one am not asking how we can keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the dangerously mentally ill because the answer to that question seems pretty obvious to me. The real question we should be asking is why, if someone is too dangerous to be trusted with a firearm due to a crime they committed or a mental illness, are we letting such a person back into society at all? While I certainly wouldn't trust a convicted murderer or rapist with a firearm, I wouldn't trust such a person with an automobile, knife, can of gasoline, or aggressive dog either. Such people have proven themselves either unable or unwilling to function in a civilized society and the only way to effectively eliminate the danger they represent is to remove them from society through incarceration or, if the crime is severe enough, capital punishment.
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar |
February 6, 2013, 10:16 PM | #13 | |
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Join Date: July 5, 2008
Posts: 172
A private sale background check, presumably, wouldn't tell anything about who the seller is, only the buyer. And, if it is like current FFL checks, wouldn't tell what kind of gun the buyer bought and it doesn't tell what he paid for it. |
February 7, 2013, 07:22 PM | #14 |
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Join Date: June 21, 2009
Location: West Central Missouri
Posts: 2,495
I am not understanding how a background check relates to income. I do not believe they have to record the amount it sold for anywhere on the form nor do they have to report it to the NICS folks.
Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen. |
February 8, 2013, 06:58 AM | #15 | |
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Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 7,260
I have grandchildren in elementry school. I want them safe just as bad as the most diehard anti gun person want's their kids safe. All this crap over blaming the guns instead of looking for the why doen't do anything to address the root cause. |
February 8, 2013, 07:13 AM | #16 | |
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Join Date: May 17, 2004
Location: NC Piedmont/Foothills
Posts: 605
As Hyman Roth noted: "He's small potatoes."
If your front porch collapses and kills more than three dogs...You just might be a redneck |
February 8, 2013, 07:20 AM | #17 | |
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Location: NKY
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"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson |
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text:
Jobs says open iPod "not worth it"
"Apple Computer CEO Steve Jobs publicly dismissed on Thursday an overture from RealNetworks to open up the iPod, saying such a move does not make business sense.
Speaking at Apple's annual shareholder meeting here, Jobs said there would be both an initial and ongoing cost to allowing the iPod to work with other music services.
'To be honest, it's just not worth it,' Jobs said, noting that RealNetworks has made a number of overtures to Apple and adding that Real's music service has been 'less than successful.'"
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Personally, I'm not convinced that Apple should open the iPod. But for the Apple hata's, this isn't the policy-against-Mac-clones equivalent. Anyone can adopt AAC and run with it; free of charge, I believe.
Quit your whining RealNetwork. Get out now, while you still have something to rub together, Glasser.
Posted by matthew on April 22, 2004 at 12:10 PM (PST)
"can adopt AAC and run with it; free of charge, I believe."
Myth #1
AAC is free.
It is not. It is controlled by Via Licensing and hardware and software manufacturers have to pay significant up-front and per-item license fees.
In fact, WMA is actually cheaper to license than AAC!
Myth #1
FairPlay is open.
It is not. Apple bought the company that developed the FairPlay DRM and shut down its licensing program. Therefore it is currently impossible for any other company but Apple to make FairPlay-enabled AACs (or any other codec).
The solution? Ogg Vorbis. Superior quality, totally free of licensing restrictions, cool logo.
Posted by Myth on April 22, 2004 at 12:16 PM (PST)
Can Ogg have DRM? If not Apple will not be able to use it for iTMS. End of argument.
Posted by pomegranate on April 22, 2004 at 1:06 PM (PST)
Of course WMA is cheaper, MS priced it low in an attempt to get the masses to adopt it. Non DRM'd AAC however is an open standard at least, not closed like WMA. DRM in any form sucks - including Apple's fairplay AAC IMHO.
Apple has no good reason to open fairplay, in fact it would be a poor business decision right now.
Some tech writers have compared fairplay AAC vrs. DRM WMA to Beta vrs. VHS, which is stupid at best and makes me laugh. AAC and WMA are simple codec's which, even DRM'd, can be converted into any other codec fairly quickly and easily on the same machine. Not so in the days of Beta/VHS, the tapes were different, the playback machines were different and expensive - to change between the two formats you would have to have both machines costing >$1000, both tape types and it would be real-time transferring - minute for minute. I guess what I'm saying is the codecs don't really matter, use what you like.
I have an iPod (using Windows) and use MP3 and AAC codecs for playback. I have no interest in WMA or Real's DRM'd AAC because I can't use them. If I ever decide to purchase DRM'd tracks - I'll get them from iTunes. Apple knows this and is currently adding ~700-800,000 potential customers every 3 months.
Ogg Vorbis support for the iPod, while I don't really care, would be a good move for Apple - it would give iPod users another choice.
Posted by WMWHAT on April 22, 2004 at 1:10 PM (PST)
as long as the ipod plays mp3s, i couldn't care less if they open it up. Apple innovated the online music market and these other companies just can't catch up. Arguing over lossy codecs is pointless imo and I'm happy with mp3. I don't expect pristine audio quality from my digital music player (though 200VBR mp3s sound great to me).
Posted by dave on April 22, 2004 at 1:18 PM (PST)
granted having the option of playing ogg and wma's amongst others would be nice but is it that hard to just rip all your cd's at aac or mp3….in my 7700 song collection i have about 100 wma's but ya know what i burnt them ripped them and walla…(is it that big a deal in audio quality..if so maybe apple isnt for you!
Posted by rivlinm on April 22, 2004 at 2:45 PM (PST)
"Some tech writers have compared fairplay AAC vrs. DRM WMA to Beta vrs. VHS, which is stupid at best and makes me laugh. AAC and WMA are simple codec's which, even DRM'd, can be converted into any other codec fairly quickly and easily on the same machine."
Are you a retard? You think a public that can't set the clock on their VCR is about to go happily converting between competing formats? Think again, harder this time.
Posted by MeshAir on April 22, 2004 at 3:09 PM (PST)
Save yourselves while you can… only encode MP3's.
Apple is not your friend. They are going to be the first to raise prices on downloaded music from 99 cents to $2.49.
99 cent songs are gonna be the death of the music industry and they know it. By offering the one or two good songs off an album for 99 cents, the labels are trading $1.98 in downloads for a $13.99 CD purchase.
They're gonna raise prices, and what may seem like an acceptable deal now (I personally don't thing 99 cents a song is a great deal) will soon seem like highway robbery at $2.49.
Don't fall for the hype.
Posted by BigSid in Los Angeles on April 22, 2004 at 3:46 PM (PST)
"Can Ogg have DRM?"
Yes it can. Ogg is just a container protocol, and you can wrap it with FairPlay or any other DRM tech you want.
Ogg can itself wrap Vorbis, which is the lossy, open music codec. It also wraps Ogg Media, or OGM, which is an open standard that functions like DVD's VOBs, enabling multiple audio tracks multiplexed with video frames. Where it scores extra is that its suybtitles are not stored as low-res bitmaps, like DVD's VOB's, but as time-indexed text streams, so they can be rendered in any desired font, or language, and are searchable.
"Non DRM'd AAC however is an open standard at least, not closed like WMA."
No, it's not, insofar as most reasonable people define "open". The algorithms and protocols for both WMA and AAC have been submitted to ISO and are openly available, though patented. To actually use either AAC or WMA you must pay licensing.
This is as distinct from Ogg, which is both open, non-patented, and free.
So the issue really comes down to the different definitions different people have about "free". It's not just free-to-use, or free-to-read, or free-to-copy, or free-to-modify, but a synthesis of all of them.
Posted by Ogg on April 22, 2004 at 3:48 PM (PST)
Apple is officially now at the level that Microsoft is at.
Both want money, and both don't want to share anything.
Posted by Adam on April 22, 2004 at 6:32 PM (PST)
(Meshair said: "Are you a retard? You think a public that can't set the clock on their VCR is about to go happily converting between competing formats? Think again, harder this time".)
People who can't set the clock on their VCR are hardly going to have a smooth time with computers in general, let alone MP3 players. Times have changed cretin, the people using MP3 players can easily learn to change codecs, after all they own computers and have some basic knowledge - which means they are smart enough to convert from say WMA to MP3 or AAC to MP3 or MP3 to Ogg Vorbis.
THE POINT WAS, THE CODECS DON"T REALLY MATTER. USE WHATEVER YOU LIKE. IF YOU HAVE AN iPOD, WHICH IS WHAT THIS SITE IS ABOUT - USE MP3 OR AAC. SIMPLE.
It was my opinion, which I have a right to. No need for a personal attack, can't understand that, are you a tech writer who has compred the audio codec's to Beta/VHS?
Posted by WMHAT Meshair? on April 22, 2004 at 7:33 PM (PST)
I hate big rich companys trying to monopolize something (iPod) . Apple wants total control over iPod. They should share it. Even M$ has their WMA lisense-able.
Posted by Booksacool1 on April 22, 2004 at 8:14 PM (PST)
iPod users are so smart that half of them have no idea how to even create a blank file.
Times have changed… but retards haven't.
Posted by WMHAT is not a retard. He's "special" on April 22, 2004 at 9:03 PM (PST)
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Ogg on the iPod is idiotic. The battery will last for a couple of hours at most….
Posted by Adam on April 22, 2004 at 10:46 PM (PST)
Apple and Microsoft are both private companies; of course they'd do everything they can to maximize profits and increase shareholder value. Since when was this a bad thing? Not everything can run under the open-source type mindset.
Posted by Andy Lin on April 23, 2004 at 3:28 AM (PST)
Dude the record companies want to raise the price for singles. You know since singles sell albums? You ever notice single CDs at the store? They are like a few bucks or more. The idea here is to make it economically in your interest to buy the entire album. Why? Cause thats the business model the record companies use and they don't wanna change it. People almost always buy the entire Album on CD and not the single CD and the record companies want the same thing to happen online. So quit complaining and buy the entire album for $9.99 instead of a single song for $2.49.
Posted by Joe Mama on April 23, 2004 at 4:53 AM (PST)
What unmitigated gall! How dare Apple try to monopolize the iPod and maximize its profits! I've never heard of such a thing!
Posted by oxhead on April 23, 2004 at 7:34 AM (PST)
"People who can't set the clock on their VCR are hardly going to have a smooth time with computers in general, let alone MP3 players. Times have changed cretin, the people using MP3 players can easily learn to change codecs, after all they own computers and have some basic knowledge - which means they are smart enough to convert from say WMA to MP3 or AAC to MP3 or MP3 to Ogg Vorbis."
You have NO idea, do you… My god… Maybe you're happy in your little group of techie friends, but try living in the real world and you will finally get a taste of how intimidated some people can feel about anything with more than 2 buttons.
Posted by MeshAir on April 23, 2004 at 12:26 PM (PST)
Apple may not want to create an open device, but the good folks at the Linux on the iPod project (ipodlinux.sourceforge.net) are going to make an end run around Apple.
Posted by Mountain Man on April 24, 2004 at 6:21 PM (PST)
Bunch of whiney babies. You can't just accept the fact that Apple is doing something great. Just because your ignorance makes you afraid of Apple products, you have to be aggressive.
First, Apple won't be responsible for the higher prices. The iron grip of the RIAA will. Take your complaints to Sony/Columbia, the leader in all of this.
Second, Apple is pushing their product, not monopolizing. AAC is coproduced by Apple. What you're asking Apple to do by opening up to WMA or Real is equivalent to asking them to put Pentiums in their computers. That's absurd! They are only interested in their own product. That's what makes it worlds different than M$.
Third, if you so passionately desire WMA, get a freakin' Archos. Quit your whining about iPod. Obviously if this means so much to you, you prefer the iPod for some reason. And as long as it plays Wave or AIFF, then quit complaining. It plays the best format possible. Or hey, if you like the iPod so much, but want to play WMA (kinda contraDICKtory), convert it, since it's so wonderful.
Posted by Wolf on April 25, 2004 at 9:07 AM (PST)
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Kaumakaiwa, a five-time Nā Hōkū Hanohano Award-winner, is the eldest son of Kekuhi Kanahele, the eldest grandchild of Pualani Kanaka'ole, great grandson of Edith Kanahele Kanaka'ole, and great-great grandson of Mary Keali'ikekuewa. Since birth, Kaumakaiwa has dedicated his life to his family's practice and passion - the art of hula. As a 15-year 'olapa (dancer) of Hālau O Kekuhi, he has been able to experience all aspects of hula, oli, haku mele and choreography. These qualities are nurtured well within the family and the hālau. The past seven generations and beyond have been maintained within a traditional family lifestyle dedicated to hula and the Hawaiian culture.
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Created on 02 November 2012
Created on 08 November 2012
... land and who they would play. Honestly, I have been so focused on the BCS Championship, that I haven't thought much about "Plan B."
Needless to say, I have some help here in the ...
Created on 10 November 2012
Created on 18 November 2012
... Irish will be #1 in ALL the polls, and have just one last game against Southern Cal next week to end the season perfect and send Notre Dame to the BCS Championship game.
Here we go, you guys. ...
Created on 25 November 2012
... Fighting Irish won the game, take home the Jeweled Shillelagh, finish the season undefeated, finish the season ranked #1, and punched their ticket to the BCS Championship game in Miami on January 7, 2013. ...
Created on 29 November 2012
The following comes to us from our good friend over at Irish Roundtable, JVH.
Over the last 4 days I've spent a sizable amount of time trying to educate myself on the BCS Title Game ticket ...
Created on 05 December 2012
There have been a lot of shirts put out on the market recently for this Notre Dame vs Alabama game. For me, they are just a little too damn cute. I'm not a big fan of cute. Fuck cute. ...
Created on 10 December 2012
This is the jersey Notre Dame will wear in the BCS Championship game against Alabama, according to Notre Dame's equipment manager, Ryan Grooms.
Obviously there aren't any surprises ...
Created on 28 December 2012
... rewarded for that pride. Go to Proud To Be ND and sign up. For those that do, an email will be sent on January 2 with a link to Notre Dame's brand new television spot to be shown during the BCS Championship ...
Created on 28 December 2012
The 2013 BCS National Championship game is no ordinary title game. That's not to say that these title games are ever really ordinary, but let's face it... Oregon vs Auburn is no Notre ...
Created on 29 December 2012
Welcome to the Irish Blogger Gathering on Subway Domer. Friends, we are getting damn close to the National Championship Game against Alabama. With that, the IBG is back a=in session this weekend, ...
More Epic Art
Created on 31 December 2012
The great and awesome thing about legends and epics, is that they inspire so many pieces of art depicting the same event, but in a much different style.
The following comes from Subway Domer ...
Created on 31 December 2012
Hey friends! Do you love the artwork of Kelly Bloor aka @phillykelly? Yeah, I thought so. Because of that, you can now wear her amazing artwork on a shirt for all to see.
GET THEM NOW. Click ...
Created on 02 January 2013
Notre Dame is currently ranked #2 in Rivals Team Recruiting Rankings. Something about this looks strange- like too little or too much math is involved. What the hell?
Created on 02 January 2013
If you are going to be in Miami... live life right.
Created on 04 January 2013
Welcome to the Irish Blogger Gathering on Subway Domer. Friends, we are only a few days away from the BCS National Title Game and I gotta tell ya... HOLY FUCKING SHIT I'M READY TO KILL THIS ...
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Here is the latest article I wrote for the Huffington Post.
The Improbable Dream Of The Fighting Irish
Created on 07 January 2013
Open thread is open y'all. Image via NDMSPAINT.
Created on 09 January 2013
So this is what defeat feels like. I mean, after all, it had been over a year since the last time Notre Dame football lost a game, and I sort of, kind of forgot how this is supposed to taste. ...
Created on 25 January 2013
... BCS Title Game, Recruiting, and more.
We are soooo awesome. Also, I cough a bit. Sickness is a bitch.


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hello there shortbaorders, this here is a part of the forum ive not been on much but since my surf trip to france when i tried a bit pf shortboarding ive decided its time to broaden my spectrum a bit and step into the world of the wild arm wavers.
so heres the question, wh9ile in biarritz i rode (and LOVED) a about 6' board, with a little step around the tail, wide in the centre with thin tail. quite sharp rails i think but easy enough to paddle, so what should i get to ride here, i have a neil perrow sparrow tail 5'9" but i think its a bit thin for me at the mo, also, the wave shere are a darn sight less powerfull than in france, so... longer? wider? thicker? i allready longboard competently (i think) and can do an "off the lip" type manouver on a shortboard. ta in advance for yer time and not driving me kicking anmd screaming from the shortbaord forum.