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What do you think of students getting editing help on essays/papers from their...
Topic: Teachers
What do you think of students getting editing help on essays/papers from their parents?Do you explicitly talk to your students about this in advance? Are you specific with them as to what kind of help they can accept and what kind of help would be cheating?
I go back and forth with this. I used to be adamant about the students not having anyone edit their papers before they turn them into me. But, it did become clear that not everyone followed that guideline, so that seemed unfair to the kids who did. But, some kids have more resources - parents who are good writers, tutors, etc. - and that is also unfair.
As a parent, I have always been hands-off with my daughter's papers. She accuses me of not offering her the help that ALL of her classmates have.
I'm thinking maybe I need to be really clear with what they can get help with and what they can't, but am curious what other teachers are doing. Do you have guidelines written down that you share with students and parents?
27 Answers | add yours
I have never thought about it. I have only had one issue in the past with a student turning in a parent's work. I failed the student based upon the fact that the paper was even turned in with the parent's handwriting and not the student's. I guess helping a child, as a parent, is not a big deal as long as the parent is not doing all of the work.
We, as teachers, cannot stop parents from helping their children. In fact, I love the idea that they can bond over something like education. To few parents are actively involved (at least in my district). I rather like hearing that they are there to help.
In reality, is it any different than us, as teachers, helping them?
Posted by literaturenerd on September 24, 2011 at 11:06 AM (Answer #3)
I would say kids cheating off of other kids or from the internet is the much more prevalent problem, at least at my school and in the high school grades. There have been times when I suspected the student was getting too much "help" from a parent, but I'll admit, the energy and aggravation it would take to confront the parent about it usually isn't worth my while. Sad, but true.
Posted by brettd on September 24, 2011 at 11:36 AM (Answer #4)
I don't have a problem with parents "editing" the work of their sons and daughters. I think its great when any student bothers to have someone else review their work before turning it in, and proofreading and such is perfectly acceptable. I HATE it when parents actually do their children's work, however, and the student turns it in with his/her name on it. I had one student who turned in A+ work on home-written essays, and barely passable work in class. On every class assignment, she made some excuse about wanting to finish at home, and I finally caught on: Her mother was writing her essays for her. I never actually accused the student or parent of this type of plagiarism, but I was very strict about seeing that this particular student completed her in-class work without taking it home anymore. Of course, her mother continued writing her homework assignments for her, but it was obvious that the work was being done by two different people.
Posted by bullgatortail on September 24, 2011 at 12:53 PM (Answer #5)
I love at least one other adult reading a paper before it is turned in to me. If a student is going to have multiple grammatical errors and they are already 16 or 17, then they need more help than just me. Now, I don't want to read mom or dad's work, but I think even the suggestions moms and dads can make lead to students often thinking about using a new word or sentence construction. The exposure to one more idea might stick with them and that is worth it to me. After a couple of writing pieces, I feel very familiar with my students' writing and trust my ability to pick out work that is not their own.
My biggest problem comes when parents write to our district's Senior Project paper. After using turnitin.com, hiring the paper out or having a parent write is the last way to cheat. Parents that write their kids' road to graduation scares me for future generations. What do we teach them when we get in the way and say we will do work for them? How long does the apron string last?
Posted by missy575 on September 24, 2011 at 1:33 PM (Answer #6)
I don't have any guidelines because I don't see how we can possibly write any guidelines that are effective and yet clear. Obviously, parents ought to give their kids some help, but not too much. So how do you quantify that and state it in clear terms? So, I don't bother because I don't have anything useful to say.
Posted by pohnpei397 on September 24, 2011 at 10:22 PM (Answer #7)
It's my opinion that judicious help at home--may I emphasize judicious (and doing student work for the student is not judicious)--is critical to the development of students' cognitive powers and skills. Of all the valedictorians in my children's graduating classes (and having graduated in California, each class had around 23 or 24 valedictorians--gone the days when valedictorian meant the top student!), every one had heavily but judiciously involved parents helping and guiding behind the scenes. The students' skills were authentic though because no parent was at hand when they took their SATs or when they qualified for their $20,000 and $40,000 scholarships in mathematics and sciences etc. Experience shows that students need more than a distanced teacher to develop their mental powers fully, and equally gone are the days when teachers had leisure to educate with more direct participation.
Posted by kplhardison on September 25, 2011 at 1:26 AM (Answer #8)
As a recent student, I can say that I never had writing help on any of my papers. In fact, I helped other students with theirs, in an editorial and idea sense. I often had my Dad listen to and suggest edits, but I always wrote every word myself.
In the sense of help -- which is to say, coming up with ideas, outlining, editing -- I have no problem with parental assistance. It's a good way to reinforce grammar rules, sentence structure, punctuation and spelling... all the things that children pay little attention to in school because it's so darn boring. I should know; I got most of my writing knowledge from reading, not schoolwork.
However, in any case where a teacher can prove beyond a doubt that the student did not write the paper him/herself -- for example, if the teacher quizzes the student about the paper's content and the student cannot answer specifics -- the paper should be rejected and the parent called in for a conference. Teaching children that someone else will do their work for them is a bad, bad lesson, and it leads to helpess adults with no sense of responsibility.
Posted by belarafon on September 25, 2011 at 3:41 AM (Answer #9)
Hmmmm, it sounds like you have parents who are truly willing to help their sons/daughters do well in school! Your question put me into a reverie about the students I have taught (both in public and private school), and how I absolutely NEVER had that problem. I guess I prefer to think of this as a "glass half-full" type of scenario. You know what? How wonderful would it be if a parent would edit a bit, sit down with his/her child, and explain what's wrong?!? I would be thrilled if parents did that!
I see your point, though, ... if the parent is simply grabbing a paper and correcting it in private only to throw it back to the student who makes the corrections and hands it back in to the teacher, yes that definitely has a negative connotation. How can we differentiate between the two different types of help? We can't.
In short, I agree with many of the posters above. I don't have any problem with parents helping students with corrections. However, my suggestion to you would be, if you want to really test them on form, simply give them an essay once in a while in class. You will certainly see the disparity if the parents are helping too much.
Posted by ms-charleston-yawp on September 25, 2011 at 10:30 AM (Answer #10)
I agree with post #10 about doing an in class essay once in a while so that students can show you their own self-edited paper. Since I am now retired, this may no longer work, but I would send a letter home to parents with the first essay, asking them to be part of the parent teacher collaboration for their student to succeed in English. I would ask them to listen to the student read the paper to them which often eliminated mistakes. Then I would ask them to help edit one half of the paper while the student did all the editing in the second half of the paper. When the first draft was done, I would have the students edit each others' papers for one period. Then, the next period I would edit ONE paragraph for each student in class. The student had to select the paragraph for me, explain why they wanted that paragraph edited, and then read it aloud to me. Often they would catch their own grammar mistakes, missing words, the wrong words, unclear phrasing, unclear paragraph unity even after having read it to the parents. Then we could discuss complexity in their ideas, sentence structure, and unity in the whole essay. I found it easier than fighting the parent issue with the hope that parents would be satisfied with half the paper. So I never really had a set of rules but more like a parent/student/teacher collaboration which parents seemed to like.
I did discuss this with the students in advance and the reasoning behind it. The final edition of the paper was done by the student in class.
Posted by mizzwillie on September 26, 2011 at 4:57 AM (Answer #11)
This is a tough call. Parents helping students is very much like teachers helping students, but they are better able to provide the one-on-one that teachers often don't have the time to give because of class sizes and varying levels of skills in the students of the class. The distinction, however, it that parents should not do the student's work—but offering another set of eyes for editing and proofreading is helpful for the student, as it is for adults. Sometimes we just get too close to our work to see it with clarity. Like everything else, it is about balance.
Posted by booboosmoosh on September 26, 2011 at 12:09 PM (Answer #12)
Most of my writing is done in the classroom. Because of this, I get a strong feel for the student's voice and style. Even though the students and parents know this I still have experienced students' parents who "help" their child write an essay for my class. Often, the parents come to me upset because the child's paper did not meet the requirements for the class. It creates an awkward conversation when the parents' writing isn't the A they think it is. We spend a great deal of class time talking about how to write our essays, that parents often miss critical instructions. When parents have questions I show them the in class writing versus the home assignments and show them the, usually blatant, differences.
At the same time, true parent help is always important. Students grow through their writing, and it's important for parents to be a part of this process.
Posted by pirateteacher on September 27, 2011 at 11:52 AM (Answer #13)
That's unfair!
Posted by shihan on October 11, 2011 at 2:52 AM (Answer #14)
That is not fair to the other students that have parents that dont have the time to read their papers. There is no way to stop this, however, because you cant watch what the parents are doing at all times. The kid should be able to read over his paper himself and learn how to correct his own mistakes
Posted by damaster97as on October 11, 2011 at 5:53 AM (Answer #15)
I think that the term "editing" needs to be defined. Schools do not teach parents how to help students "edit' their work. Therefore, parents rewrite what the student has written. If parents were taught that they need to point out the errors in an essay and help/allow the students to correct those errors, I have no problem with it. If the parent is rewriting the paper for a student, I have a definite problem with it. I have had friends give me their son's/daughter's papers and ask me to "edit" it with the intention that I would rewrite it. That will not happen! Writing is a continual process. Students need to improve. I always have my students write their first draft, then I edit it. Afterward, the student has an opportunity to correct any errors for a higher grade. This makes the student aware of his/her particular problems and allows him/her to grow as a writer.
Posted by schulzie on October 14, 2011 at 12:23 PM (Answer #16)
Many teachers that I know use peer editing in class. This would mean that they are teaching future parents to edit papers. I have seen many aspects of this in previous posts. I encourage students to let the ideas flow and not worry about spelling and punctuation. Then read their writing aloud to someone. That person should give feedback about clarity and interest. After rewriting, the process is repeated until the student is satisfied.
Next the student should self-edit for spelling and grammar. Only then should someone else read the paper and mark errors. Important papers should be read by someone else before submitting them for publication or a grade.
I would give parents these guidelines and test new learning with writing completed in class with peer editing on clarity only (no suggestions).
The final goal is the quality of writing the student can produce, not the amount of work.
Posted by dpaden on October 19, 2011 at 2:52 AM (Answer #17)
I agree with all that has been said. I often tutor my four children to help them answer as accurately as my colleagues demand of them. Too often written instructions on assignments clash with what the students have been told - you know, after the students ask the teacher for clarification and as a result slacken expectations on one thing or change them on another.
I mostly teach beautiful (and extremely difficult) children who have parents that couldn't do their work anyway! So thankfully I do not have that problem. However, I do have several "top" classes whereby parents support their children in outright copying from the internet. In an effort to avoid this, I try not to allow them to hand in typed work, get them to mark their peers' work to a criteria displayed as a whole-class exercise, and only allow the genuine students to take their work home - in fact, they're considered weird for wanting to do work at home. Oh my gosh! Perhaps the students in my school have not cottoned on to getting their parents to do their work! I know it does to a tiny degree here but let's hope it doesn't come to all out essay writing by parents here.
Posted by kionuin on October 19, 2011 at 11:41 AM (Answer #18)
If any parents wants to help their wards in editing a paper of an essay its always good. But editing has to be only editing strictly . As long as parents inflict their point of view on their children correcting is good.
Posted by salimj on October 20, 2011 at 7:23 PM (Answer #19)
I teach my students to use all resources available before turning in an assignment. A parents offering editing services is no different than asking a peer or another adult to do the same. The issue becomes when the parents crosses the line, and the "editing" turns into the "writing." I want to know what the students knows - not what the parent knows.
Posted by jarumi344 on October 22, 2011 at 9:30 AM (Answer #20)
Theres nothing wrong with getting help from your parent if you dont understand something either ask your parents and adult or another teacher.. If I dont understand something I ask a person who does
Posted by meganp0504 on November 3, 2011 at 4:55 AM (Answer #21)
from a student's point of view:
as a student i believe that if i don't work hard on my homework i will not learn from it thus if a parent helps their child the child will not learn their subjects, they will learn to depend on others... so am against it.
Posted by justaquestion on November 3, 2011 at 5:53 PM (Answer #22)
I agree with that mentioned above . I don't find any problem with parents helping students with corrections. It also helps to improve familiar relationships.
However, students must develop their skills, it's not right if parents take their children paper and correct it in private.
Parents should only help their children to understand if there's someting that their children cannot grasp ! But the main work should be done by students .
If parents help too much, students cannot develop their skills.
Posted by angelina18 on November 8, 2011 at 7:30 PM (Answer #23)
While I'm delighted that parents are concerned with their children's education, I'm not crazy about some students having that sort of advantage over other students.
To remedy this, I have resorted to having students do as much of their writing as possible in class. If the writing assignment comes in a non-testing scenario, then I encourage them to do peer-review on each other's papers (an exhortation which they usually ignore).
Posted by noahvox2 on November 9, 2011 at 11:36 AM (Answer #24)
Posted by kayork on November 12, 2011 at 1:40 PM (Answer #25)
A point in the right direction is OK. Anything more than that and the parent is doing the work!
Mirrors
Posted by stuart31mm on November 13, 2011 at 7:43 PM (Answer #26)
nah... one or two times is okay but as parents and teacher should give the understanding of how important is a self confident
Posted by matjabur on November 15, 2011 at 10:40 AM (Answer #27)
I feel that it isn't fair to the other kids because other kid's parents may not be doing their work for them, and you get grades in school for what you know...not your parents. If you think about it, it is kind of like cheating because if you have friends do your work for you, and you get caught you get in trouble. If parents help their children that's fine, but I don't agree with them doing all the work for their kids.
Posted by lpoollax5 on November 19, 2011 at 9:42 AM (Answer #28)
As long as parents are not writing the essays for their child, I'm all for parental help and editing. I actively encourage my students to have someone else read their papers (it's even written on their assignment handouts) to catch the mistakes that they don't realize they are making.
One of the struggles within my high school is that many parents do not speak English or it is at least their second language, and they are not really able to help their children edit their work. Often because of this students turn to the internet and essays they find online. At least with some help from parents, students are involved and hopefully they're learning something from the experience.
When I was a student I always had help from my parents. Not in the sense of them doing the work for me, but they were there as support and for discussion. My mother was a teacher and was always asking the questions that would pry the answer out of me, rather than providing the answer herself. In the end I think I learned more about writing and the writing process from her than I ever did in my English classes at school.
Posted by rainbowcrayon on November 23, 2011 at 9:34 AM (Answer #29)
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Zahir Closing
Editor Sheryl Tempchin says that Zahir, a quarterly magazine of speculative fiction founded in 2003, has ceased publication. Between 2003 and 2009, Zahir published twenty issues, with another eight issues published on-line after print production ceased. The magazines archives will stay available on-line despite the closure.
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Liturgy of St Cyril
The Liturgy of Saint Cyril (or Anaphora of Saint Cyril) is one of the three Anaphoras used at present by the Coptic Christianity and it retains the liturgical peculiarities which have originated in the early Christian Egypt,[1] thus forming the core of the historical Alexandrian Rite. When reference is made to its Greek version, this text is usually known as Liturgy of Saint Mark (or Anaphora of Saint Mark).
Present usage[edit]
This liturgy can be used at present by the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria, as well as by the Coptic Catholic Church, during the Lent time or in the month of Koiak, but its prolongation and particular melodies makes its use uncommon today.[2] This text does not cover the whole Divine Liturgy, extending only from the pre-anaphorical rites (the prayer of the veil) to the distribution of the Communion, thus including the anaphora in the strict sense of the word. The Coptic Liturgy of Saint Basil is used for the remaining part of the service.
In the Byzantine Rite, the Liturgy of Saint Mark, as transmitted by the Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria, is used in a few places each year on the feast day of Saint Mark by the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, which authorized it in 2007.[3]
According to the tradition, Christianity was brought in Alexandria in Egypt by Saint Mark, and the town acquired importance as a center of church government and Christian theology with its Catechetical School. The liturgical uses which developed in such town are known as Alexandrian Rite, and the texts used for the celebration of the Eucharist are known as Liturgy of Saint Mark.
The lingua franca of the Western world in the early centuries of Christianity was the Koine Greek, and the Liturgy of Saint Mark was in such language. The translation of this liturgy in Coptic, used by most of Egyptian population at that time, is attributed to Saint Cyril of Alexandria in the first half of the 5th century. Thus the Greek version of this liturgy is usually known as Liturgy of Saint Mark, while its Coptic version is regularly called Liturgy of Saint Cyril, even if the formal name of the latter is "the Anaphora of our holy father Mark the Apostle, which the thrice-blessed Saint Cyril the Archbishop established".[1]
The oldest survived complete manuscripts of both the Liturgy of Saint Mark and of Saint Cyril date the High Middle Ages. From the 5th century to the High Middle Ages both versions developed on parallel and mutually interconnected lines, with reciprocal translations and with most of the additions added to both of them.[4] Both versions have some own peculiar material. The use of the Liturgy of Saint Mark by the Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria was blamed by the Patriarch of Antioch and canonist Theodore Balsamon at the beginning of the 13th century.[5]
Manuscript Tradition[edit]
The first millennium witnesses of the early stages of this liturgy are the following fragments:
- the Strasbourg papyrus, written in the 4th or 5th century, includes the first part of the preface, with the paraphrase of Malachi 1:11 followed by some short intercessions and it ends with a doxology. Scholars disagree on whether this prayer in the 3rd century was in itself a complete anaphora.
- the John Rylands parchment 465, written in Greek in the 6th century and badly conserved, includes the text from the first epiclesis up to the end of the anaphora.[6]
- the British Museum Tablet, written in Coptic in the 8th century, includes the text from the first epiclesis up to the second epiclesis.[7]
- some Sahidic Coptic fragments.[1]
Other ancient texts which belong to the Alexandrian Rite are important in the study of the development of the Liturgy of Saint Mark: the Anaphora of Serapion is the earlier witness of some ancient material,[8] the Anaphora of Barcelona and the Deir Balyzeh Papyrus are different developments based on the same material, the Cathecheses of Cyril of Jerusalem are useful to trace the relationship with the Liturgy of St. James.
The earlier manuscripts of the Liturgy of Saint Cyril date from the 12th century and are in Boharic Coptic. It is not known whether they derive directly from the Greek or through lost Sahidic versions. These manuscripts include some additions not found in the Liturgy of Saint Mark in Greek, but in general their readings are closer to the first millennium fragments than those of the Greek version.[1]
The earlier manuscripts of the Liturgy of Saint Mark are: the Codex Rossanensis,[9] the Rotulus Vaticanus,[10] the incomplete Rotulus Messanensis.[11][12] An other witness is the lost manuscript of the library of the Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria, copied in 1585–6 by Patriarch Meletius Pegas.[13] The Rotulus Vaticanus, and even more the text copied by Pegas, show a progress in the process of assimilation to Byzantine usages.[5]
Structure of the anaphora[edit]
The anaphora of Saint Mark (or Saint Cyril) found in the High Middle Ages manuscripts shows all the typical peculiarities of the Alexandrine Rite, such as a long Preface which includes an offering and immediately followed by the intercessions, two epiclesis, the absence of the Benedictus in the Sanctus.[14] The structure of the anaphora (in the strict sense of the word) can be so summarized:
- the Opening Dialogue,
- the preface, composed by:
- praises to the Father for the creation of heaven and earth, the sea and all that is in them (quoting Psalm 146:6 as usually found in the Alexandrine anaphoras), followed by praises also to Christ,
- a first Oblation, offering the reasonable sacrifice and the bloodless worship (ref. Romans12:1), followed by a paraphrase of Malachi 1:11,
- Intercessions section, composed by:
- lengthy prayers for the Church, the livings, the deaths, making memory of Saint Mark and of Mary, and followed by the diptychs,
- a second Oblation, requesting that the offerings are received in the heavenly altar as were the sacrifices of Abel and Abraham (similar to the "Supra quae - Supplices te" of the Roman Canon),
- additional intercessions for the livings, including the names of the current Pope of Alexandria and bishop,
- a well developed Pre-Sanctus,
- the Sanctus, without the Benedictus as usual in early Egypt, followed by a short Post-Sanctus centered on Christ,
- a first epiclesis that simply asks God to fill the sacrifice with blessing through the descent of the Holy Spirit,
- the Institution narrative, in which are pronounced the Words of Institution,
- the Anamnesis of the Passion, Resurrection and Ascension of Christ,
- a third Oblation, offering the bread and the cup,
- a second epiclesis directed to the Holy Spirit, with an explicit request to change the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. This epiclesis uses the aorist tense,[15] thus simply narrating a conversion without stating whether it occurs in the present, future or past.
- a final prayer for the fruits of the Communion.
In the present use of the Coptic Orthodox Church, the section containing the Intercessions and the second Oblation has been moved to the end of the anaphora, following the pattern used in the Coptic Liturgies of Saint Basil and Saint Gregory based an Antiochene structure.
- ^ a b c d Coptic Enc. 1 1991.
- ^ Spinks 2010, p. 361.
- ^ Pravoslavie 2007.
- ^ Cuming 1997, pp. 58,60.
- ^ a b Coptic Enc. 5 1991.
- ^ Jasper & Cuming 1990, p. 55.
- ^ Jasper & Cuming 1990, pp. 54–56.
- ^ Cuming 1997, p. 60.
- ^ Codex Rossanensis, Vatican Library Gr. 1970, 12th century
- ^ Rotulus Vaticanus, Vatican Library Gr. 2281 dated 1207
- ^ Rotulus Messanensis, Messina Gr. 177, 12th century
- ^ Shenouda III 1995, p. 78.
- ^ Cuming 1997, p. 57.
- ^ Gabra 2009, pp. 28–29.
- ^ Cuming 1997, p. 69.
- Cody, Aelred (1991). "Anaphora of Saint Cyril". The Coptic encyclopedia 1. Macmillan. 123b–124a. ISBN 002897025X.
- Cody, Aelred (1991). "Mark, Liturgy of Saint". The Coptic encyclopedia 5. Macmillan. 1539a–1540b. ISBN 002897025X.
- Cuming, G.J. (1997). "The anaphora of St. Mark: a study of development". In Bradshaw, Paul F. Essays on early Eastern eucharistic prayers. Collegeville, Minn: Liturgical Press. ISBN 081466153x Check
value (help). - Gabra, Gawdat (2009). The A to Z of the Coptic Church. Lanham, Md: Scarecrow Press. ISBN 9780810868946.
- Shenouda III (1995). The beholder of God Mark the Evangelist Saint and Martyr. OrthodoxEbooks.
- Spinks, Bryan (2010). "Oriental Orthodox Liturgical Traditions". In Parry, Ken. The Blackwell Companion to Eastern Christianity. Malden, Mass: Wiley-Blackwell. ISBN 9781444333619.
- "в нью-йорке состоялось очередное заседание архиерейского синода русской православной зарубежной церкви". pravoslavie.ru. Retrieved 5 May 2012.(Russian)
- Jasper, R.C.D.; Cuming, G.J. (1990). Prayers of the Eucharist: early and reformed. Collegeville, Minn: Liturgical Press. ISBN 0814660851.
External links[edit]
- Online text of the Liturgy of St. Mark from the Codex Rossanensis
- Online text of the Liturgy of St. Cyril as used at present by the Coptic Church
- Online text of the Liturgy of St. Mark as used at present by the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia
- 1583 edition in Greek and Latin of the Liturgy of St. Mark


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Home › News › Weekend Open Forum
Weekend Open Forum: Modern Warfare 2 on the PC, a multiplayer fiasco?
Ever since the word was out, PC gamers have been up in arms with Infinity Ward's decision to replace dedicated servers to host multiplayer matches with a proprietary infrastructure called IWNet. This has translated into less control in the hands of gamers, with no way to choose who is hosting matches (one player is assigned automatically), and no ability to kick or ban players from your game.
These are all things the PC community has grown accustomed to and taken for granted for years. Furthermore, player cap has been reduced from 64 on previous versions to just 18, with 9 vs. 9 matches becoming the new norm just like in the console versions. Looking at some disgruntled user reviews you'll learn about a few other omissions that have left people complaining of this being nothing more than a console game that plays on your PC.
In its defense, Infinity Ward claims the new matchmaking system "takes the benefits of dedicated servers and allows them to be utilized and accessed by every player, out of the box." For example, it will automatically find you a game with the best performance, ping, and preferences based on your location and individual connection as well as matching you with players of your same skill. They also promise a cheat and hack-free experience.
Today we want to know your thoughts on the new multiplayer functionality and lack of control on the user side. Is all the backlash really warranted or will the game's multiplayer mode remain just as enjoyable while making it easier for less experienced users to join the fun?
User Comments: 73
Got something to say? Post a comment-
I can see why people dislike being unable to choose which map or a specific server they want to play in, but the new system really helps you get into a decent server with incredible ease.
COD-MW2 multiplayer for PC. The lag is shocking- cannot run without being 'halted' every few steps, graphics ceiling has been dumbed down to max 1600x1200- cannot run 1560x1600 (like COD-WAW could), if the host leaves (getting owned), all other players are left hanging in limbo, cannot choose your side- all auto assigned, clan members get auto asigned to one side only (great for them but lousy for other players), long delays between games (1-2 minutes), long delays while the auto system finds other players, then sorts who to host, then starts the round, then lets you actually play, and of course, NO DEDICTED SERVERS- so makes it very hard to play with mates. The game itself would be probably be good but for the above, and in the end it has RUINED THE GAME. IW simply ported the console version to PC- cos it was cheaper and easier, instead of spending the time and $ to do it properly. Let's face it, how sophisticated is a PS3 (many years old) or Xbox360 (all using twilight MS technology) compared to a PC. If this is what console users think is acceptable, then I pity their limited gaming experience. Well done Infinity Ward, you f@'d us PC users. Am returning to COD-WAW and MW1.
IW is so stupid. And I'm going to have to agree completely with the guest comment. For completely ruining the pc version of this game I most definitely will NOT purchase MW2.
"takes the benefits of dedicated servers and allows them to be utilized and accessed by every player, out of the box." For example, it will automatically find you a game with the best performance, ping, and preferences based on your location and individual connection as well as matching you with players of your same skill."
We players can decide that for ourselves. Pc gamers should know their ping and skill by now...
"They also promise a cheat and hack-free experience"
Where there's a will, there's way. Someone will eventually figure out how to hack.
And finally the only non-profanity word that comes to mind to express my anger at the dumbing down of the pc version is ROOOOOOOAAAAAAAAARWWARRAWRWRARRRA!!!!! >
No matter how I look at what they did. I just keep seeing the word fail popping up all over the MP title.
If it 'aint broke, don't fix it.
Second rate pc game end of story, back to MW1 & BF2, lets forget this ever happened.
Haven't you guys heard... "It's not balanced for leen." lolllllllllllllllllllllllll
i personally think the system sucks i mean if the host leaves you get stopped and have to wait on a new host and the time it takes to get into a match seems like forever plus the 9v9 system is bs atleast 24 would have been nice i mean this is not a console and there is no bandwidth limit so why mess up the system that has worked for years. i will play it because its the only way to play it but i dont have to like it end of story.
To what should have been a great game with a epic multi player they really went and F'ed things up real good. Not buying this, but I will play through the 6 hour single player. If this is some kind of new trend that has any possibility of catching on it will be very bad times for PC gaming. Good job Infinity Ward, you made you millions now go crawl into a hole with your money and try not to feel bad about your decision.
From 32 vs 32 to 9 vs 9 - its just crap.
Thats why i am not going to buy this game. But hey? do you think they give a crap? they just sold 4.7 Million in one day. My voice is unheard.
all i got to say is that i do have a hack out.
yes i said i have a hack for mw2
it is a aimbot and wall hack,
[url removed]
it works and its vac proof.
and its sweet.
Guest said:
all i got to say is that i do have a hack out.
yes i said i have a hack for mw2
it is a aimbot and wall hack,
[url removed]
it works and its vac proof.
and its sweet.
Whoever you are, you're one of the people that ruins multiplayers WAY faster than whatever Activision and IW are doing with MW2. That should tell you something. Get the hell off the internet and play single-player if you're going to be a cheater.
As for Modern Warfare 2, I'm not even going to bother wasting 60 dollars. Call of Duty 4 was the pinnacle of their achievements and it won't get any better. COD6 was a complete waste after what they did to it. It was so bad that many people who heard about the changes actually cancelled their pre-orders. This has to be one of the biggest blunders after such a great run that I've ever seen. Come on Infinity Ward, you were never like this. Why start now? Ditch this bullcrap!
If anything, I would ONLY play their even FURTHER shortened Single Player, and only if someone else already had it and I could use their copy. Team Fortress 2 is vastly preferable to this trainwreck of a multiplayer and that should tell you something. Anyone reading this and thinking about buying it, please for the love of God don't.
The game falls short of what it was expected to be. Good gfx do not make a good game. The campaign is short and uninteresting. (we already knew that) I was going to buy the game just for the multiplayer, but since they messed this up there is absolutely no reason to go out and buy it.
The lesson to be taugh here is 'never believe the hype'. This game is top story in every video game site but the truth is that it will be forgotten very soon....
a nice little round up
add to that list a FOV of 65 that you cant change!
65 FOV!!! FFS thats rediculous on a PC. We all know why they did it, its becasue a smaller FOV has less to render meaning they can bump up the GFX quality a little bit more for the hardware crippled consoles.
I'm a player of MW1 who is in his 40's , I play on sniper only mods myself as my old eyes can't take all that running around on the normal mode of the game :0) . I'm happy to sit there for 30 mins a round and maybe pick off only a couple of enemies , nice and a calm and chess like.
I play on a 3 or 4 servers mainly and have just joined the clan of the one i play the most. Of course the great advantage - unlike IWnet apparently - is that as happened last night , someone was arsing about ( a rare occurance fortunately ) . Within 30 seconds and 2 warnings later he was gone and banned , ahhh peace reigned once again and i was back to my game of chess /MW1 sniper mod.
It's a shame IW seemed to have ruined the MW experience for pc gamers as this was the first game I'd really gotten into , still MW1 is still fine for me for the next few years tbh so I'm happy really. I most certainly wont be buying MW2 though if I can't get sniper mods on it , personally.
Can't believe I'm actually on here writing about it really as there are far important things to be worrying about in this , but hey ,like others have said , ' If it ain't broke , don't fix it ' .
As for 9 v 9 that I've just read about , well lets be honest as MP gaming goes that figure is laughable .
Finally ,I'd like to offer a big thankyou to the map makers on all the dedicated servers , as my own pc knowledge amounts to turning the thing if I'm honest , and it's you guys who make MW1 worth playing.
I can't understand for the life of me why big Co.s like ATVI & IW just don't get that?
Their loss.
Cheers - DeathbyDonut
I dont play games but I find this interesting... doesn't it have LAN play?
is it illegal to create a LAN server for internet access? and get rid of this IWNet?
one can easily setup the thing... and redirect internet traffic as it was LAN traffic...
in my time when I used to play, I would play with friends... from what I understand, this just randomly puts you in some server with random ppl... thats just pointless..
I havent been reading the forums so bought this pile of crap. I've owned all the cod games on the pc and still paly cod 4. Couldnt belive my eyes when installing and steam came up. Anyway.. no console, crap match making, 9v9, lag, drops, wall hacks and aim bot to name a few problems. This is a very big mess. Infinity ward you are stupid to think this would work.
What to do i thought? I felt like i had been robbed of my £40. I rang the shop to complain and got told to go away. So took the game back to another branch and told them in wouldnt install, that got a credit note. Will be keeping that for the next real pc shooter. Battlefield :) Infinity Ward you suck.
I will never buy this game and support this BULL SH*T ,, I can't even believe they are selling it for 60bux for PC when the excuse why games are 60 on console are management rights to microsoft and sony ... WTF they can suck the big one. I'll pass.
I don't know what pisses me off more this game or the huge delay for Assassins Creed.
After reading about what they've done / how they set it up I wont be buying the game.
The multiplayer problems they have incorporated drive me nuts. No thanks.
Well Luckily its only 3 more days til Left 4 Dead 2 comes out and we can have a game that excells at playing online with friends and has a good multi player experience. I did buy MW2 and so far I do enjoy the single player and co-op modes but I havent tried multiplayer yet so I cant comment on it but I think ill stick to L4D, borderlands, and TF2 they are the best purchases so far.
i refuse to buy this game now as the multi-player is ruined imo, lacking dedicated servers, good anti cheat systems, custom maps and mods (which made the game so popular originally when it first came into being), not to mention the silly player cap just makes it pointless buying
The Pc community is still reeling from the exclusion of our gamestyle from the new IW release. We have been through many of the stages:denial, anger, etc.. but have yet to reach the point of accaptence. Perhaps we never will. This hurts the future of PC gaming. I sincerely hope that Treyarch takes atvantage of IW's ingorance and doesnt follow suit with COD 7. It's all about $$, obviously... Console gamers get bored fast, move on, play a variety of games and will shell out for DLC because they don't know any better.
Still hoping for a patch; with no where to call home there is no point in playing.
Remember that the head of Activision indicated that he wanted to take the fun out of game making ... That is money first quality second ... One could surmise:
1. Charge the same price as console
2. Remove modding so that the company can take over DLC map market
3. Restrict development beyond console version (just a port .. that is why 9v9 etc)
I love dedicated servers this is one game I wont buy ... If Activision was to vanish from the PC, one need not worry since we now know the new policies of the company.
the game is doomed to failure
day 1 hacks exist
there experience matching system doesn't work
you cannot block players from joining a game
there is no LAN version
gentlemen you fail The time limit for this game I would give An estimate to be about one the year After that Over 95 to 99 percent of the players will have dumped the game
If you want it too controlled map generation this would have been fun if you wanted to controls servers this too would also have been fine But total control of the game means that the game will absolutely positively die
As no one wants to play a game that's under total control of the manufacture players want the game to become part of them in attempting to play this game or realize that it can not be.
TF2 Is a game that is three years old it's been updated every six months with new game material thus the interest of the game has not very the other reasons it has not varied is because of clans people like to join together to have fun in modern warfare two that's impossible.
I think the first post by Guest nailed it. This is a complete and total failure on IW's part. I'm glad I waited before buying this game. I'll save my $60 for a game that actually caters to the player and not the developer
Except from the fact that you can't choose the map you want to play in, the ping is enormous, I used to have between 10 and 30 ping, now its 100+, you can't play with your clan as it picks people with the same skill and matches are filled within seconds, you can't have competitive gameplay, you can't have mods, etc.
And what is so hard about browsing a list where there is indicated what map you play on, what gametype you are playing, what ping it has, what clan owns the server, etc.
Why don't they get it?
"the game is doomed to failure"
Despite being the biggest entertainment launch in history....EVER
That to me suggests success....
First I would like to say I played COD4 on the 360 and liked the matchmaking system. Mercenary Team Deathmatch is my favorite and you can play a game within about 2 minutes of firing up the game.
I saw COD4 on the PC as my friend had it and liked the look of the 40 player servers and decided to get COD5 on PC when it came out.
Unfortunately COD5 for me was ruined by the modified maps that allowed fast leveling. On the 360 version of COD4 it was all about getting levels, maximising loadouts and perks to get the most experience. In COD5 it was about joining a level that spawned everyone in the same room so you could constantly throw grenades, hold down fire and rack up kills. In 3 hours you could reach maximum level and thats what alot of people seemed to do. I played it for about a week in multiplayer and then left it.
Now this version is out and I like the multiplayer. The matchmaking system is identical to the 360 version and the levels are well designed. The perks and customised classes have been improved imo and its easy to get into a game. The coop system is also enjoyable. I think its an improvement.
I do believe there is a need for choice however. There should be larger servers available for the PC but not if it means it ruins what could be enjoyable for a few months - getting levels, trying out and learning all the different guns. All that is lost as soon as there is a level built that just lets you get to maxmim level by holding down shoot for 3 hours.
I havent had any ping or performance issues but then I am playing on a core i7 with 9gb of ram on a 13meg broadband connection. If im not hosting then someone with a better connection or computer is.
haven't you noticed when you throw a nade, the animation plays and after that, the nade releases. believe me, thats a ping issue in my oppinion.
im probably running on half of ur specs, but my internet is three times as good and i have ping issues. if you used to play console, you won't notice anything, but any dedicated pc-gamer should notice lagg on console versions of mw1 and mw2 and the pc version of mw2.
at least i did.
Well looks like IW shot themselves in the foot.
The MP setup is bad, so we just download the torrent for the SP instead.
Lost revenue right there.
Nickle&Dime us for DLC. What next, paid update patches?
I hope AvP, DiCE and BRINK will be good next year; As I'm sick of getting "Wolfensteined".
Besides not having dedicated server which i honestly no longer care for, overall MP gaming is great. So far, i had one lag issue, where a host left, and then a random person was chosen to be a host so the game may finish its round.
9vs9 is nice as well. No more over crowded maps where you get killed off every 3 seconds.
No more worries about your favorite server being full, being down, shut off or not updated.
It just works. Yeah, there are few hick ups here and there, but there is lots of room for improvement. The game has been out only for 4 days, and ill bet in a month, MP service with patches and updates will improve greatly.
I don't remember reading the breakdown between PC sales and console sales.
I would wager that most of the sales are on the console side, as they are the ones with hobbled systems and this game fits right in.....hobbled for consoles.
really guys i had great expectations for MW2
i would have spend all my money on this game
the best thing i enjoyed in MW1 was 32 vs 32 multiplayer but now thats gone so i guess theres no point in spending any money on this since games are very expensive in my country .
ghostface900 said:
haven't you noticed when you throw a nade, the animation plays and after that, the nade releases. believe me, thats a ping issue in my oppinion.
im probably running on half of ur specs, but my internet is three times as good and i have ping issues. if you used to play console, you won't notice anything, but any dedicated pc-gamer should notice lagg on console versions of mw1 and mw2 and the pc version of mw2.
at least i did.
1. I don't get the lag you speak about. I just went straight in to the game and practiced throwing grenades and the sound and animations are in sync. I have yet to play a laggy game.
2. I have been playing shooters on the pc since doom and quake. The price of my first 3dfx card still makes me shudder (£160 for a 4mb voodoo1) and I know lag when I see it. Fine, I do not live in shooting games and as I am older the old reactions start to slow and maybe kids on shed loads of caffeine with the reactions of cats might notice things I don't.
From where I am standing, the performance issues people talk about are not something I have experienced. The standard multiplayer game is alot better also because there is a feeling of satisfaction as you climb ranks that can't be avoided by running "powerlevelling" maps.
Is that shitty for people wanting to play 30vs30 on their own server? Well Infinity Ward should release larger maps, create a dedicated server version that is not connected to the standard multiplayer game and let people play as they want on those servers without affecting the standard version. In other words you cant rank up on those servers but those servers could just allow everyone that joins to have lvl 55. There would still be plenty of people to play the "normal" version for the challenge.
ColdFusion1990 said:
I can see why people dislike being unable to choose which map or a specific server they want to play in, but the new system really helps you get into a decent server with incredible ease.
Eeeehhhmmm.... no you see you are totally wrong, what is the sense in playing something you actually don't wanna play (experienced it both with BF:BC and BF1943) i hate some maps and love the others but why the hell should I play both. Arguing that Infinity Ward wants to deliver the best playing experience for everyone is bullshit, if it were so you could choose between IWNet and Dedicated servers, the thruth is they hope they could have more control over the players for example there are no statistics about which map people really like and which they don't so you can't really complain about something, another aspects is that they really think they could ban all pirated copies of Cod:MW2 from the internet... come on get real you can't win against piracy so try to live with it. Oh, and don't come with those fantasy numbers like because of piracy we lost 10trillion $ last year, it isn't true...
the point of the matter is there are like 15 computers to every console in the world and PC gaming is far bigger than console gaming so IW is freaking stupid for F****** over the PC community dedicated servers are what defines the pc games we play and not having any control at all is BS. I love the game but i think i will get board of it easy.
Ahh, I'm glad I spent my money on L4D2. =)
I bought the game after trying out a my mate's copy. Its as bad as everyone says, 3/5 games you play will have a horrible host, so i dont know just how the hell the system picks the best host, if me and my friends all have powerful rigs and megabit connections. But i bought it anyway, because even tho they brought on all these changes, the game is very solid, and you can see all the hard work these guys put into making this game. No one likes change, even when its changing something that is tried and true, and so close and dear to us pc gamers, like dedicated servers. But i bet in a few years dedicated servers will be a thing of the past, and our children/ grandchildren will laugh when we tell them that we had to PAY to have a 24-man server running in some guy's basement pc. Lag is always a problem no matter if its a dedicated server or not. IW has balls to do what they have done, even if they were just being lazy by simply porting the console version to the pc, they are atleast trying to bring change to the PC gaming community, which has barely changed since the release of classics like CSS and Starcraft. I just hope this change is for better, even if it makes me rage inside.
Has anyone considered the possibility that IW is siimply experimenting with a new formula?
If PC gamers would write some constructive emails to them rather than ranting on forums, maybe they would release a patch at some point and revert back to the tried & true formula they used with MW1.
Its been only 4 days, give them time to work out all the issues. Rome wasnt concurred in one day either.
Battlefield Bad company 2 for PC looks very interesting to people who hate what has become of MW2, however, even as great of a game it is and will be it is still a port. A real FPS game id like to see is Battlefield 3, and for god sakes hope its PC only. A man can dream!
There is absolutely no point in providing Infinity Ward with 'constructive feedback', as they are fully aware that this is an enormously unpopular decision that virtually the entire PC-gaming community reviles utterly. The problem is THEY DON'T CARE.
This is simply a transparent money grab - by removing mod support and abandoning dedicated servers, you force EVERYONE to deal with random map selections by removing any choice. Couple that with DLC map-packs, and eventually everyone will be forced to shell out for said DLC or keep getting blocked/dropped whenever a map they don't own comes up on the rotation via the 'completely automated' matchmaking system.
See, they CAN'T keep dedicated servers around - how else would they be able to shovel DLC down the PC-gamers' collective throats if they simply had the option to CHOOSE what maps they play on and who they play them with? Can't have that!
This was never really about dedicated servers, it was all about removing mod support so they could force us to buy content we would otherwise just make and distribute ourselves FOR FREE.
i totally enjoyed the game but it is way to short , i finished it in under 5 hours of gameplay .if this game was a girl she would be a "blond teasy flirt"
Oh dear, I'm 55 years old and have thoroughly enjoyed every edition up to now, but this has come to an abrupt halt. Firstly I didn't want steam, secondly multiplayer stinks!, and last but not least gameplay is poor. Sorry I wish I could get my money back, certainly recommend others not to waste their money! It seems that as usual the 'experts' know better than the gamers - goodbye infinity ward!!
There is no more hack free experience... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm3Wj2YfDx0
and i was so disappointed by IW....played every day CoD4....and when I heard that MW2 will come I was looking for the game...till the msg came: NO DEDI servers... mh.... I will buy Bad Company 2....really this will be the real CoD4 sequel.
yeah, i bought the game ot really paying any attention to the new MP format. if i'd have known i prolly wudna bought it. ive been on a couple times since it came out and i am very dissapointed in not being able to browse for a server i like. i feel like ive been hearded like cattle to some ramdom server. what i enjoyed about the last game was i could "set server to favorites" once i found a good playing/ cool people/ specific maps server. looks like i have no choice where i play now.
it was a really bad idea to do this. sure it might be easier for the newbies to get into a game easier, but its only good for newbies. once they have a feel for the game they too will wonder why they dont have a choice of what particular server they play on.
i would pay extra if this company would put things back the way they're supposed to be.
give us a patch for a server list and mods.
let the newbies play on this type of "console" until they figure out the way its supposed to be. by then they can patch their game and play with the rest of us.
i'll be playing on MW1 and WAW till then. i may even get around to the single player too, but prolly not multi.
sure the graphics are cool but look how big the community of counter strike is....are ya pickin up what i'm layin down???
It's the same with Wolfenstein and Enemy Territory: Quake Wars.
Epic fail, killed a series.
End of.
I don't see how domestic Internet connections of the UK which average about 2mbit down and about 448kbit upload. For 18 players with 20 snapshots (engine default since U cannot change any settings on CoD MW2) at ~20kbytes a piece when the game is that full -> is practially a total flood and huge latency is induced.
You would need an actual through-put of around 3mbit or greater in upload to run 18 players with LESS problems for their ping times.
That's excluding any voice communication, since that's an extra overhead, I wouldn't be surprised if it's limited by the client rate too.
Hence why you will all have pings of 100+ QED. Glad I didn't bother preordering, the promotional videos said it all.
A poor console port and incorrectly labled "PC".
I am a casual gamer in 50s a marine corps veteran and love the cod series.and have supported all of them.I love going into my favorite servers and playing at my choice.I love downloading the latests mods. and new maps to see what someone has ceated.I just want to thank all of the talented folks all over the world who takethe time and energy creating content for all of us to keep a game like this alive,fresh and fun.I also meet folks half my age and closer to my age in work contacts talking about games find out they play mw1 and are in a clan I like to have that freedom to join on thier server and have a frag fest is a blast made some great friends through dedicated servers with like minded ppl that also enjoy this release we call fps shooter fun.I think iw decision to f**** the pc community with this crap after all the support all over the world pc community has kept this franchise alive and strong.ya they sell mass quanity of console games but they have short attention spans pc community is strong and keep game like this alive and keeps ppl engaged and interested till the next game release.I will not be buying this game will stick to mw1 for now and I only can hope the pc community stays strong and not support this game. Keep the faith! SEMPER FI
wellll, looks like Im a little late posting but...
ditto everything the rest of yall said. lol
its really disappointing.
When i heard about this game i was so excited cos I absolutely love COD4! However! They have completely ruined what could have been a great game! The single player i found was quite good and i enjoyed playing through it. The game play I think is really good and i like the new weapons.
But that is where the compliments stop! The multiplayer is shocking! I couldn't believe how bad it is! You have to sit there for ages while it chooses a game and finds players for that game! You then have to wait while it chooses a host and sets up the game. Finally you start playing, you get into the game and suddenly it all stops cos the host leaves! So you then have to sit there for ages while it moves the game to another player! Then you start playing again! The game then finishes and you then sit there and wait for ages before the next one starts! Half the time on multiplayer is waiting around for a game! Its meant to be a game not a film!!!! We want to be able to play not sit around for ages waiting! And 9 vs 9! Are they Mad!!!!! Over in Afghanistan, do you think there are only 9 solders fighting 9 Taliban?! No there are hundreds! It makes it so unrealistic its ridiculous! They really have ruined what could have been an immense game!
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**Mega Spoiler Alert (The Whole Post)**
I'm gonna try and type this without going into a rant about it, but no promises...
Personally, I was disappointed in how the show ended for Chuck and Sarah. I mean, hes basically where he's at at the shows beginning, minus Ellie and Awesome.
Everybody (sans Morgan) left! Ellie, Awesome and Clare(sp?) are off to Chicago, Casey is going after Verbansky, Jeffster is/are off to Germany, Sarah doesn't really know Chuck anymore. I understand that Sarah had SOME memory of the past with Chuck but I feel like its a maybe that they would get back together. I feel like this was more of a cliffhanger to a next season than a series finale. I wanted Chuck to ride off into the sunset like Jeffster did. The whole season they built up "Happily ever after" and we got barely a maybe. I wanted a bow, not questions. Oh AND Chuck has the intersect again (but really who DIDN'T see that one coming.)
I REALLY hope there is a movie. Till then, I will be watching my DVDs.
This needs a movie. Like tomorrow.
After powering through the first season and a half from the late evening to early morning during a weekend, I was making rapid progress during the following work week towards completing my 5-season Chuck-a-thon. However, as I neared the end--whether through fatigue, sentimentality, or both--I started slowing my Chuck intake to prolong the excitement and attachment I've gained for this TV series and its characters.
I just watched the series finale yesterday, which leaves me with bittersweet joy in that I'm sad that the ride is over but also a little relieved that the series didn't end up overstaying its welcome even if it did come to a close prematurely. Fans were treated to pretty much a complete story and an ending that left it open for positive possibilities.
I'm sorry that I missed out in sharing the joy with other enamored fans of this fantastic show during its run but I'm quite grateful to the Let's Go Kings community for alerting me to this treasure. We've been treated to so many precious moments that they still reverberate in our hearts and memories and make rewatching episodes a delight. This show works because of the remarkable on- and off-screen chemistry of the cast and crew, so I'll post the following videos in tribute to all those involved:
I wholeheartedly co-sign this sentiment.
Ha! You did with CHUCK, what I did with LOST. :)
And yes, their chemistry is awesome....it's actually what got jerseydevil and me interested in the show. We were at Comic-Con a few years ago and had to sit through the Chuck panel, to make sure we had a seat for the Family Guy and Cleveland Show panel. At that point, we had only heard of the show, but never watched it. Less than half the way through the Chuck panel.....after seeing the way the crowd was reacting with so much love and excitement....and seeing the chemistry the actors had with each other (and the crowd)....we knew were missing out on something special. So soon after, JD ordered the DVDs...and it was love at first watch. :)
Oh, I did that with LOST too. In fact, LOST was the first series I employed this practice with. I obviously heard of the show but quickly dismissed it as a Survivor (non-"reality") TV show. I got hooked on the show after hearing my co-worker play it in the background while we were working. I suddenly found myself at his desk watching the rest of the episodes on his disc after work and through the late evening. At that point, I went out and rented Season 1 and hunkered down through the weekend with a LOST-a-than, that I ended up drawing my roommate into it as well.
The enthusiasm in this very thread was what piqued my interest in this show, so I searched for some YouTube clips, which just sealed the deal for me in falling head over heels for it. It's nice to actually be engrossed in quality TV shows, which has not always been the case in years past for me. Then again, I'm very selective of the shows I follow nowadays because of past disappointments and also not wanting to get hooked on high-quality shows that I know would take up a lot of my time. Chuck was definitely worth the time and emotional investment.
Watch Zachary Levi's heartwarmingly hilarious zombie-killing PSA | Blastr
No. Still have not watched...in extreme denial and subconsciously believe the show will never end.
Damn you, I thought this would be bumped to announce a movie or next season :cbgb:
JUST found out today this was the theme song :facepalm:, I thought they created it for the show...


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Police: Man suspected of attempted kidnappingTHE ASSOCIATED PRESS | January 05,2013WESTMINSTER Vermont State Police are looking for a man suspected of trying to kidnap a girl waiting for a school bus in Westminster.
Troopers say they received a report of a suspicious man who pulled up to the girl on Friday morning and asked where her mother was and then tried to grab the child by the hand.
The suspect is described as a tall, slender man with possibly light brown hair and dark mustache. Police say he was driving a red pickup truck.
School officials say the student is fine and was able to return to her house.
Police are encouraging parents not to leave children unsupervised at bus stops and not to have them walk alone in isolated areas.MORE IN This Just InRutland Herald content editor Rich Alcott shares local weather information and easily digestible... Full StoryBRADENTON, Fla. Full StoryCHARLOTTE Thousands of water birds that normally spread out across Lake Champlain are seeking... Full Story -
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Former cEO of worldwide financial resources sentenced in $11 million fraudulent mortgage Loan scheme
September 27, 2011 |
TRENTON, N.J. – The former CEO of Worldwide Financial Resources, a New Jersey-based mortgage origination firm, was sentenced today to 63 months in prison in connection with an $11 million fraudulent loan scheme, U.S. Attorney Paul J. Fishman announced.
David Findel, 45, of Monmouth County, N.J., was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Peter G. Sheridan in Trenton federal court. He had previously pleaded guilty to an Information charging him with wire fraud.
According to the Information to which Findel pleaded guilty and statements made in Trenton federal court:
Findel is the former CEO of Worldwide Financial Resources ("Worldwide"), which was in the business of originating residential home loans. Worldwide worked with borrowers to prepare mortgage applications and qualify the borrowers for home mortgages. Although Worldwide would originate the mortgage loans, after origination, Worldwide would re-sell the loans to another financial institution in the secondary mortgage marketplace.
Findel admitted he prepared and sold fake mortgage loans from 2008 through September 2009. Specifically, after Worldwide had originated a mortgage loan and sold that loan to a third-party lender, Findel would create a second set of fraudulent loan documents for the same property. He would then sell the second set of fraudulent loan documents to another third-party lender, even though the actual mortgage loan for that property already had been sold. As a result of these fake mortgage loans, Findel received over $11 million in illicit proceeds, which he used, in part, to maintain his lavish lifestyle – including his multimillion-dollar home in Colts Neck, exotic travel, and exclusive seating at a major New Jersey professional sports arena.
In addition to the prison term, Findel was sentenced to three years supervised release and ordered to pay $11,994,000 in restitution. He was immediately remanded into custody.
On Sept. 19, 2011, Findel pleaded guilty to a separate Information charging him with bankruptcy fraud for concealing assets from the U.S. Trustee, the bankruptcy case trustee and creditors in his bankruptcy case. He is scheduled to be sentenced on that count on Nov. 14, 2011.
U.S. Attorney Fishman credited special agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, under the direction of Special Agent in Charge Michael B. Ward, in Newark, with the investigation that resulted in today's guilty plea.
The government is represented by Assistant U.S. Attorney Christopher J. Kelly of the U.S. Attorney's Office Criminal Division in Newark.
This case was brought in coordination with President Barack Obama's Financial Fraud Enforcement Task Force. President Obama established the interagency Financial Fraud Enforcement Task Force to wage an aggressive, coordinated, and proactive effort to investigate and prosecute financial crimes. The task force includes representatives from a broad range of federal agencies, regulatory authorities, inspectors general, and state and local law enforcement who, working together, bring to bear a powerful array of criminal and civil enforcement resources. The task force is working to improve efforts across the federal executive branch, and with state and local partners, to investigate and prosecute significant financial crimes, ensure just and effective punishment for those who perpetrate financial crimes, combat discrimination in the lending and financial markets, and recover proceeds for victims of financial crimes.
Defense Counsel: Robert A. Weir, Jr., Esq., Red Bank, N.J.
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) announced that federal disaster aid has been made available to the State of New Jersey.
FEMA is now accepting applications from residents and business owners who sustained losses in Atlantic County, Cape May County, Essex County, Hudson County, Middlesex County, Monmouth County, Ocean County and Union County.
Register online at
www.disasterassistance.gov , by web-enabled mobile device atm.fema.gov or by calling 1-800-621-FEMA(3362) or 1-800-462-7585 (TTY) for the hearing and speech impaired. The toll-free telephone numbers will operate from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. EDT seven days a week until further notice.


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NAICS 53131: Real Estate Property Managers
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"Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces." By Radley Balko. Public Affairs (Perseus Books Group), 400 pages. Hardcover, $27.99.
CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- Promoted by presidents from Ronald Reagan to Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, the War on Drugs has done little or nothing to stop, or reduce, serious crimes in the United States.Yet that "war" continues to cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars to pay police officers, to prosecute people and to imprison them, typically for nonviolent crimes.
Perhaps even more important, the War on Drugs continues to erode and destroy civil liberties.
Police are typically allowed to violate the freedom of Americans to maintain their homes as places of safety, privacy and sanctuary. The growing drug wars undermine the long-held "Castle Doctrine" embodied in the Fourth Amendment of our Constitution.
The War on Drugs has created SWAT (Specialized Weapons and Tactics) teams throughout the country. Those teams repeatedly target innocents -- breaking unfairly into private homes and violently assaulting, sometimes killing, people who have done nothing wrong.
The victims of questionable SWAT raids routinely include older people, women and children.
"The overwhelming majority of SWAT deployments today are to break into private residences to serve search warrants for nonviolent crimes," Radley Balko writes in his disturbing new book "Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces."
For Americans who care about their core political liberties, Balko's book is a must-read. A wide range of groups share Balko's concerns, from the American Civil Liberties Union to the libertarian Cato Institute and the conservative Heritage Foundation.
Many victims of the ongoing War on Drugs are people who smoke or grow marijuana -- an activity clearly no worse than drinking beer or wine.
SWAT teams have often detained and assaulted cancer and AIDS patients who use medical marijuana to reduce their pain, even in states that have legalized its use.
Yet despite widespread violence by SWAT teams, the ongoing drug wars have done little, or nothing, to cut drug usage.
Yet many people, especially politicians, are afraid to challenge the growing paramilitary police system, fearing they will become victims of smear campaigns.
Many police leaders express themselves bluntly.
"Officers' safety comes first," said Philadelphia Police Department Spokesperson Fran Healy. "Not infringing on people's rights comes second."
The War on Drugs
Richard Nixon's law-and-order presidential campaign in 1968 naturally led to the blossoming War on Drugs.
Many Nixon administration leaders believed drug use was a "common denominator" shared by groups including low-income black Americans, the anti-Vietnam War movement and the hippie counterculture of the 1960s, Balko writes.
Sen. Sam Ervin, D-N.C., one of Nixon's major political opponents, played a major role pursuing the Watergate charges that forced him to resign.
Ervin also became "the angriest, loudest and most powerful critic of Nixon's crime policy," Balko writes.
The prominent Southern Democrat actually preserved the Castle Doctrine for another decade before the renewed War on Drugs in the 1980s undermined it. Ervin played a major role getting the Senate to repeal a federal "no-knock" law that permitted police to break into homes without even first knocking on their front doors.
But Ervin's victory was temporary. "Ervin's wins," Balko writes, "were important, but ultimately ephemeral."
Did Nixon's war on drugs and crime succeed?
"Under Nixon," Balko points out," violent crime in the country as a whole went up 40 percent and property crime rose 25 percent."
Disliking Nixon's drug wars, President Jimmy Carter cut back on militarized assaults on supposed drug users and others. But under Reagan, things quickly reversed.


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Langham Place, Fifth Avenue400 Fifth Avenue, New York City, NY 10018 (Show map)
Score from 268 reviews
everything. I really loved the room. for my opinion it's the best hotel in NYC. The stuff are great. The business center is fantastic, with private rooms. it likes you . have a private office. .
Tel Aviv
Room was not very big, but for ny it's ok. It had big terrace (we didn't ask about it) and good big bathroom with bathtub. There were a lot of sweet compliments, free water and coffee nespresso. Bed was comfortable. There is a very good restaurant in the hotel and nice bar.
excellent location and facilities in the room
Great Location Great view of the Empire State Building. Very professional staff. We will come back...
The rooms are very nice, well decorated, comfortable, with beautiful bathrooms. The Spa is quite amazing. Great service and the co-ed Aqua Lounge was great as a couple. The Ai Fiori restaurant and bar were excellent.
Skillman NJ
Excellent Hotel ***** Great location, 5 minutes walking distance from Emprire State Building, Times Square, Central Park etc. Excellent lobby (bar) , excellent very pro staff.
great staff, and location.The concierge recommended a number of restaurants all where excellent. I will return
Excellent location, excellent rooms, excellent lounge, excellent staff. Outstanding hotel in the midtown of Manhattan.
Everything, we were even given a free upgrade to an absolutely beautiful room, These rooms are designed and done out to the highest standard. There bar is fun and buzzy. Beautiful bathrooms lovely spa, be prepared to pay $50 each for the use of this but well worth it.
Langham Place is a fantastic hotel where staff are attentive and service is the watchword I would recommend this place to anybody
Newcastle upon Tyne
This Midtown Manhattan hotel is on Fifth Avenue, 11 blocks from Times Square. It features a gym, full-service spa, salon and rooms with iPod docking stations. The Langham Place, Fifth Avenue rooms include an espresso maker and DVD player with movie library. The rooms are also equipped with wireless internet access. The hotel offers in-room spa treatments. Guests at the Langham can dine in the Ai Fiori restaurant, which serves modern Italian cuisine, or have a drink in Ai Fiori Bar. The hotel also has room service. The Langham Place is within a 5-minute walk of the Empire State Building. Grand Central Station is 7 blocks from the hotel. We speak your language! Hotel Rooms: 214, Hotel Chain: The Leading Hotels of the World. The most recent booking for this hotel was made on Mar 12 at 5:10 PM from Brazil.
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The QuinIn Midtown, this boutique hotel is within a 4-minute walk of Manhattan's Central Park and shopping on 5th Avenue. Free Wi-Fi is accessible and has an on-site restaurant.Most recent booking for this hotel was today at 09:13
Score from 56 reviews
- 9.1/10
New York Hilton MidtownCentrally located in midtown Manhattan, this New York hotel is within a 10-minute walk of both Central Park and Times Square.Most recent booking for this hotel was 16 minutes ago
Score from 1465 reviews
- 7.7/10
The Towers of the Waldorf AstoriaThis boutique hotel is on the 27th to 42nd floors of the Waldorf-Astoria, off Park Avenue in Manhattan. The hotel features personal concierge services and marble bathrooms.Most recent booking for this hotel was yesterday at 19:55
Score from 46 reviews
- 9/10
Sofitel New YorkThis midtown Manhattan hotel is within a 7-minute walk from Times Square and several subway stations. Sofitel features a restaurant, gym and guest rooms with flat-screen cable TVs and minibars.Most recent booking for this hotel was today at 09:42
Score from 514 reviews
- 8.7/10


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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - View original article
Sorrel | |
Scientific classification | |
Kingdom: | Plantae |
(unranked): | Angiosperms |
(unranked): | Eudicots |
(unranked): | Core eudicots |
Order: | Caryophyllales |
Family: | Polygonaceae |
Genus: | Rumex |
Species: | R. acetosa |
Binomial name | |
Rumex acetosa L. | |
Synonyms | |
Rumex stenophyllus Ledeb. |
This article needs additional citations for verification. (March 2013) |
Sorrel | |
Scientific classification | |
Kingdom: | Plantae |
(unranked): | Angiosperms |
(unranked): | Eudicots |
(unranked): | Core eudicots |
Order: | Caryophyllales |
Family: | Polygonaceae |
Genus: | Rumex |
Species: | R. acetosa |
Binomial name | |
Rumex acetosa L. | |
Synonyms | |
Rumex stenophyllus Ledeb. |
Common sorrel or garden sorrel (Rumex acetosa), often simply called sorrel, is a perennial herb that is cultivated as a garden herb or leaf vegetable (pot herb). Other names for sorrel include spinach dock and narrow-leaved dock.
This name can be confused with the hibiscus calyces or Hibiscus Tea and the drink made from this plant is also called Sorrel.
Sorrel is a slender plant about 60 cm high, with roots that run deep into the ground, as well as juicy stems and edible, oblong leaves. The lower leaves are 7 to 15 cm in length, slightly arrow-shaped at the base, with very long petioles. The upper ones are sessile, and frequently become crimson. The leaves are eaten by the larvae of several species of Lepidoptera (butterfly and moth) including the blood-vein moth.
It has whorled spikes of reddish-green flowers, which bloom in summer, becoming purplish. The stamens and pistils are on different plants (dioecious); the ripe seeds are brown and shining.
Common sorrel has been cultivated for centuries. The leaves may be puréed in soups and sauces or added to salads; they have a flavour that is similar to kiwifruit or sour wild strawberries. The plant's sharp taste is due to oxalic acid, which is a poison. In small quantities sorrel is harmless; in large quantities it can be fatal.[1]
In northern Nigeria, sorrel is known as yakuwa or sure (pronounced suuray) in Hausa or karassu in Kanuri. It is also used in stews usually in addition to spinach. In some Hausa communities, it is steamed and made into salad using kuli-kuli (traditional roasted peanut cakes with oil extracted), salt, pepper, onion and tomatoes. The recipe varies according to different levels of household income. A drink called solo is made from a decoction of the plant calyx.
In Romania, wild or garden sorrel, known as măcriş or ştevie, is used to make sour soups, stewed with spinach, added fresh to lettuce and spinach in salads or over open sandwiches.
In Jamaica it is boiled, sweetened and white rum may be added to make a traditional Christmas drink.
In Russia and Ukraine it is called shchavel' (щавель) and is used to make soup called green borsch. It is used as a soup ingredient in other countries, too (e.g., Lithuania, where it is known as rūgštynė).
In Hungary the plant and its leaves is known as sóska (/ʃoːʃkɔ/ or "SHO-sh-kaw"). It is called kuzu kkulağı ('lamb's ear') in Turkish. In Polish it is called szczaw (pronounced /ʂʈʂaf/).
In Croatia and Bulgaria is used for soups or with mashed potatoes, or as part of a traditional dish containing eel and other green herbs.
In rural Greece it is used with spinach, leeks, and chard in spanakopita.
In the Flemish speaking part of Belgium it is called "zurkel" and canned pureed sorrel is mixed with mashed potatoes and eaten with sausages, meatballs or fried bacon, as a traditional winter dish.
In Vietnam it is called Rau Chua and is used to added fresh to lettuce and in salads for Bánh Xēo.
In Portugal, it's called "azeda" (sour), and is usually chewed raw.
In India, the leaves are called chukkakura in Telugu and are used in making delicious recipes.Chukkakura pappu soup made with yellow lentils [Also called toor dal in India]
In Albania it is called lëpjeta, the leaves are simmered and served cold marinated in olive oil, it is used in soups, and even as an ingredient for filling byrek pies ( byrek me lakra ).
This name can be confused with the hibiscus calyces or Hibiscus Tea.
Several subspecies have been named; not all are cultivated:


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Our intention at Fifteen is to cook elegant, rustic, clean, honest food that flicks your senses from classic, nostalgic flavours to new, inspired dishes from super-skilled young minds. With the kitchen led by Jamie's good friend Jon Rotheram, this is modern British cooking at its best.
The menu is the kind of food Jamie and Jon want to eat when they're at their happiest. Using incredible British produce, whole animals and fish are butchered and prepared on site every day, and paired with ingredients so good they really speak for themselves.
Our beautiful neighbourhood bar celebrates brilliantly selected wine alongside craft beers and ciders, and serves a wide range of exquisite seasonal cocktails with a real emphasis on British heritage. The menu embraces a huge range of English spirits, juices and liqueurs - go for something classic, or try one of our originals.
Our drinks menu is all about complementing the incredible food, and offering a range of delicious drinks to be enjoyed in a relaxed atmosphere. We've also got a bar snacks menu of deliciously naughty small plates, whether you're popping in for a drink and a bite, or starting your meal off in style.
Book online or give us a call on 020 3375 1515. We'll be answering phones between 9am and 10pm (9.30am and 10pm on weekends). We look forward to seeing you.
We promise to deliver an unforgettable experience for you and your guests, whether it's an intimate gathering or a feast for 100 people.
We offer four unique set menus as well as a delicious selection of bar snacks, that make the most of seasonal British produce.
Prices start at £40 for four courses. To see the menus and available options, download the PDF or call us on 020 3375 1515 for more information.
Sending a Fifteen gift voucher is quick and easy. Vouchers can be used to pay all or part of a bill at Fifteen and they're valid for 12 months from the date of purchase.
The voucher recipient will receive an email confirmation almost immediately so they're perfect for a last-minute gift.
Please click here to buy your vouchers.
Jamie says: "Fifteen London is my baby - I had a beautiful idea that somehow became a reality in 2002 when we first opened our doors. My intention was really simple: on one hand to create one of London's finest restaurants and, on the other, to use the magic of cooking to give young people who've often faced enormous challenges in their lives, the opportunity to unlock their true talent, through great training and mentoring.
"Ten years later, it's still unique to have a high-profile restaurant that donates all of its profits to our charity, The Jamie Oliver Food Foundation. In those ten years, we've remained busy, but also partnered with Fifteen restaurants in Cornwall and Amsterdam, who hold all the same values of good food and youth training at their heart. Between us we have seen over 350 students graduate, of which 80% remain successfully employed in the industry, and as they mature as professional chefs, an ever-growing handful are heading up, running, and even owning, wonderful restaurants around the world. The story continues."
Read more about the apprentice programme, learn more about the Jamie Oliver Food Foundation, or donate directly here.
"I'm proof of the power of Fifteen. Fifteen sorted me out and gave me a trade and I now have a career as a chef."
Ben Arthur, 2003 graduate


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The Casio Digital women's watch is a basic, durable, water-resistant timepiece constructed without unnecessary buttons or frills, making it the perfect accessory for no-nonsense women. The watch includes a resin case, bezel, and matching band, and features a mineral dial window that protects the simple black dial face. The face features a quartz-powered digital time display, as well as a perpetual calendar.
Quartz movement
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Case diameter: 26 mm
Resin case; digital-gray dial; perpetual-calendar functions


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Baltimore Convention Center One West Pratt Street Baltimore, MD 21201 April 3–6, 2014
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