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Countertop material: granite vs. solid surface (corian) vs. engineered stone (silestone)
I am trying to decide between three different materials for countertops. I currently have corian and it has a lot of scratches in it and I am deathly afraid to set hot things on it because a friend had some heat damage to hers. Have never had granite or engineered stone but my research has indicated that either one of them would be better than the corian. Cost will end up being a factor, but until I price them out based on my kitchen measurements I'd love to know if I should eliminate any of these right off the bat or if there is a clearly superior choice among the three.
re: Donna52479
I've had granite countertops (honed finish; green-ish, flecked and swirled pattern is sometimes referred to as Wild West) in my heavily used kitchen for about 10 years.
I've never sealed them and they look as good today as they looked when installed. I do not cut on them and do not put hot pans on them.
Curious about one aspect of Corian: I recently visited a 3-year-old kitchen in New York City that had Corian countertops with an integrated sink and cabinets. Color is solid white, with no flecks. It looks very contemporary and classic. (Owners could have afforded any surface, but their architect--from a well-known NYC firm-- recommended the Corian.) They are happy with it so far. It looks so much better than the old fashioned material that I knew of as Corian, common in rental units, or very old kitchens. (But maybe the older stuff is Formica (??
)My question is this: Will this material stay the same color after, let's say, 10 years, or will it yellow or otherwise turn color?
re: erica
Yes, generally it will stay the same colour.
My parents have both Granite and Corian in their house for almost 3 decades now, designed by my uncle who is an Architect. They have more Corian in the bathrooms (sinks-countertops-backsplash) than in the kitchen.
The Corian colour which is a cream white, remains the same. For that matter the Kitchen Granite (floors-countertops, backsplash on both sides) which is light brown with striations, and also unsealed, remains the same colour.
re: SWISSAIRE
I think all the solid surfaces have good points but in the end many of them try to replicate the look of granite.
The biggest down side to granite is born by the fabricator. The size of the commercial shop required and the extremely expensive modern equipment to cut large slabs to size can easily require an investment well in excess of a million dollars. It is also a very heavy labor intensive product to work with requiring heavy trucks to move it and multiple strong people to install it.
Corian is just the opposite. A fabricator can work alone out of a residential garage with a box of inexpensive power tools, move the finished product to the site cheaply and in many cases install by himself, hence the reason so many contractors recommend installing it. Sadly, little if any of the huge cost savings is passed on the homeowner.
re: Tom34
I haven't read EVERY post on this thread - but it sounds from what I have read, is that the type of counter top you get is just what the person prefers. They all seem to have their ups & downs, good vs bad type of counters.
Kind of like appliances. I'm in the process of getting information together to build a house, would love opinions on this......
re: chloebell
Your right, they do all have their pros & cons & it does come down to individual preference, style & design.
My issue with Corian is that it should be MUCH cheaper than granite & it isn't. If both fit a particular persons design/decor, some advantages of Corian would be that it is seamless, many inlay options for the edges & there are many custom sink options. It is also more forgiving to fragile items like stemware. It can be marginally repaired (sanding leaves a divot which can be felt and seen when the eye is near the same level as the counter, but the very qualities that allow it to be repaired also allow it to be easily damaged.
Granite is timeless. Like stone or brick on the front of a house, it portrays a sense of permanence. Stay away from extremely thin beveled edges and its an extremely durable surface. Many different patterns and colors available. When matched properly with stone wall tiles such as Travertine and the right floor material the effect can be a stunningly beautiful natural look. Probably the biggest disadvantage is just tipping over an expensive wine glass will leave your collection one glass short.
When considering high end kitchens, the money spent on a "professional" kitchen designer is often money well spent. Little professional touches here and there can make a really big difference. One item like high end under cabinet lighting can elevate a kitchen to a completely different level.
re: Tom34
Excellent summary of the salient issues. We used a professional kitchen designer and think that it was money very well spent. The only other point I would make is that I think that engineered quartz (such as Silestone) should be in the mix. Of course you have to like the look of it, but if you do, it's about as carefree as could be. Silestone (or perhaps Cambria) was specified by our kitchen designer, and we love it. Can really see no downside to it. We have Corian in our baths which we also like a lot, although because it's relatively soft and easy to scratch, we would not want it in our kitchen.
re: Tom34
What exactly is the composition of surfaces like Corian..are they sheathing, applied on top of another material, like wood? In the case of Corian cabinets integrated with countertop, is the cabinet box made of wood? Do the sinks have metal underneath?
Thanks!So much good information on this thread...but again, in the case of granite, contrary to what some said in this thread, it is NOT necessary to seal after installation, at least for the honed finish such as the one I have in my own kitchen...
There seem to be so many granite countertops out there (every HGTV house hunt show has a prospective buyer ohhing and aahing "Love that granite!!") it is a wonder that there is any natural stone left in the quarries!
I thought that granite was kind of "out of fashion" these days, at least the highly polished, highly flecked types.
Also, I've often heard the term "builder's granite," applied in the negative sense...what does this mean?
Thanks again to all who take time to respond!
re: erica
Hey Erica,
There are so many solid surfaces these days a google search on each would be the best way to compare how they are made.
IMHO, granite portrays a natural permanent look that has withstood the passing of time. It seems to have that warm luxurious look that draws peoples eyes to it (Ohh & Ahh effect).
I don't get into that "out of fashion these days" crap. A professionally designed kitchen with natural warm luxurious surfaces (cabinets, counters, walls & floors) with the right lighting will always be stunning. Pretty expensive room to keep chasing the fads.
re: Tom34
Yes, Tom, I totally agree with the fad thing. A classic kitchen, or classic living room, or classic dress, does not pass quickly " out of style." But one that hews to the latest fads can look dated fairly soon. I think that some of those shiny patterned granite countertops are on the flashy side and I much prefer the softer look of the honed material.
Wonder if there is a price difference between honed and polished.
Wondering about this and the other questions I asked in my last post and hope that one of the knowledgeable posters on this thread will answer at some point.
I know that I can do a Google search. I also know that there are a number of people on this thread that have offered some very good suggestions and explanations. I guess one can Google almost anything; sometimes the CH threads even turn up in the search!
re: erica
The one question of yours that I can answer regards the sinks. We have Corian countertops with integrated sinks in our baths. Although the sinks are a different color, the are essentially seamless with the countertops and have no metal underneath. They appear to be solid Corian. We love them, but like the countertops do spot quite easily (and water rings on the counters). They do clean off easily with a gentle abrasive such as Barkeeper's Friend, but nevertheless we're glad we don't have Corian in our kitchen.
re: erica
Yeah, I am just not into fads. Neutral & natural seem to be pretty safe. Bold and different seem more in and out.
I had a very close friend who was on the ground floor with Corian back in the day and made quite a bit of money fabricating & repairing it. Given the option for his own kitchen he said he would go with granite. To make money on somebody else's kitchen he preferred Corian. Having said that there weren't that many options back then either.
Over the years so many other products have been brought to the market its mind boggling and difficult to know the pro's & con's of all of them. As Josephnl pointed out above, engineered quartz brings a lot to the table. I think people are well served to wait an extra year or two if necessary to save more $$$ to improve both appearance & functionality. Lot of great stuff out there for serious cooks.
re: Donna52479
Just got back from Home Depot. Good Lord how mind boggling! lol! I was told that granite is going to not be as consistent in color as quartz - since quartz is "man made" and granite is not.
That being said, for MY preference it will be quartz as I like consistency & uniform patterns.
It would kill me to choose a granite piece & when it's installed (and paid for) that I see veins or specks that weren't there when I placed the order, b/c I chose it from a sample piece & not a whole slab. In all that I've looked at, I keep going back to, and choosing in pictures - quartz.
re: chloebell
I can't speak to H.D., but most granite shops have the slabs in stock to look at and based on your layout you will be able to see which sections of the slab your different sections of counter will be cut from. If total uniformity is your preference though, the Quartz is probably the way to go.
No matter what surface is picked I thinks its a good idea to bring the sample into your home. Seeing a large piece at a warehouse is also not a bad idea. I had a friend who picked a speckled blue Corian years back. The little sample looked nice in her house but oh boy was it a lot of blue after counters were installed.
re: Tom34
Yes, absolutely you need to go to the stoneyard to see the actual slab of granite, or other stone.
Someplace like this:
Lots of room for disappointment (and with some patterns more than with others) if you just order from a store sample.
Thanks for all the help here, everyone! Indeed a mind-boggling subject..I am glad I am not re-doing a kitchen in the near future!
re: chloebell
Some granite is very consistent and uniform in color. For example, black pearl, blue pearl, etc.... lack veins. My own surf white is a black and white stone with very short (1-2") ribbon veins of black set in a matrix of white and pale gray. They all orient in the same direction. If you've ever seen Breyer's chocolate chip ice cream, that's the look. We have three 45º angled seams in very prominent places. The stone appears to flow around the corners. It all turned out very cool.
I love the look of quartz, and like you, we wanted the uniformity of a vein-free matrix. But Cambria/Silestone was more expensive than any of the granites we considered. In fact, a great many of the least expensive stones are entirely matrix, with no veining. Food for thought. :)
re: DuffyH
"Some granite is very consistent and uniform in color.... But Cambria/Silestone was more expensive than any of the granites we considered. In fact, a great many of the least expensive stones are entirely matrix, with no veining. Food for thought. :)"
+1 The more consistent granite tends to be in the lower price range. A customer tends to pay bigger bucks for Mother Nature putting on a big show with interesting mixtures and exotic veining in a single slab.
If the (recent) OP has mentioned the amount of square footage needed, I didn't spot it in the thread. I mention this because there are really two sources for granite -- a granite importer and a fabricator -- and the source greatly affects the price.
A stone yard does not cut or finish the slab. They sell whole slabs only to fabricators who do the cutting, polishing, and installation. If you've got a small kitchen and need a relatively small amount of material -- any material -- you may do better going to a fabricator to find a remnant from a slab.
As a customer, you can visit a granite importer's yard. You can even pick out the precise slab you want to purchase from among all the examples of that particular granite. But you won't actually buy from the granite yard. Your fabricator will make the purchase and, then, take over all the steps that convert a raw slab into a finished kitchen counter.
The fabricator keeps some whole slabs on hand so customers can do one-stop shopping, but the best reason to buy the raw material from a fabricator is access to remnants. This may work best for bathroom vanity tops which tend to be smaller.
re: smilingal
I was told by our installer who has owned a Granite fabrication business for over 30 years to use "Cinch" as it does not contain ingredients that break down the sealer. Thats all we have used since the install about 12 plus years ago and it has worked great. We have very little clutter and at a minimum once a week all the counters get a wipe down with Cinch and a terry cloth bar rag that has a lot of "pull" to it. Granite looks like the day it was installed.
I've finally put in granite to my kitchen for Christmas and chose it over quartz because of the natural texture to it. It's a pain to maintain as it's porous and I've already got some coffee stains on it. Takes some bleaching and scrubbing to get it off. Had a chipped edge occur from a pot hitting it and had a fabricator come out and fix it. The edge was a little sharp so w/ kids running around, I didn't want it to cut them. The fab also recommended and installed something called Stoneguard to the surface in the sink and stove areas. Said it will protect the stone from etching and after a lot of traffic in this area and 6 mos of use, I can confirm that this stuff works. It also looks a lot more glossier than the other areas that do not have it installed. I plan on having him come back and putting stoneguard onto my entire island. Worth the money - think I paid about $200 + $30 tip for those small sections. He quoted me over the phone to do the entire island for about $500. I don't worry about putting anything on those areas and having to wipe up spilled liquids right away.
re: smilingal
Some colors do not have to be sealed...some do. I always suggest to check before sealing. In an area that gets a lot of use (usually beside the sink) drop a few droplets of water. If the water does not dissipate within 5 minutes, you are good to go. If it does, then time to re-seal.
re: smilingal
How often depends on the granite, darker colors with tight particulates are less porous than light/white with lots of movement. Most granites are "resin" coated before your fabricator ever sees the slab. If your placing excessively hot pans and using cleaning products containing ammonia you could be breaking down your sealant/resin coating?? Sealants do no make granite nonporous, it gives you time to react.....keep your counter clean and reseal if water does not bead up like waxing your car!
re: calumin
No one seals granite in Europe, a stone product used here for thousands of years.
Who says you have to seal it ?
From Marble.com in the USA:
" The need for sealing every granite, and sealing it often, is a myth and absolutely untrue.
These kinds of tales are born from fears and insecurities, or specifically designed to prey on such concerns of homeowners. Everyone loves stone, but there is a certain mystique attached to it that scares the people who know little about it. These scare tactics make granite owners afraid to do anything with their granite stone because if it's ruined, it's too expensive to replace.
The competition tries to pull away potential customers from getting a stone top by over exaggerating the need for sealing granite and marble counter tops."
That is cited from a stone industry source.
Having read some of the chemicals listed on sealers ( such as stone care, stone seal spray & seal ) would you then place your food on it after you seal it ?
re: josephnl
We have granite counter-tops in Ubabtuba, granite table tops in white with gold striations, and granite bathroom counter tops and mirror frames in Red Dragon for many decades.
These are all highly polished and well used. Two of the locations are rentals.
There has never been any staining from wine, tomato sauce, fruit, vegetables, and other food and liquids. All are simply cleaned with sponge, soap, window cleaner, and wiped dry. The appearance remains excellent.
re: SWISSAIRE
Perhaps there are different types/grades of granite. It is a fact that in the U.S. it is pretty much uniformly recommended that granite countertops be sealed on a regular basis to prevent staining. Could it be that in Switzerland and other European countries, that granite has some lasting sealant applied during fabrication?
re: josephnl
Hi Josephini -
You are correct. There are many different grades, colours, and types of granite. Porosity and hardness ( Rockwell grade ) vary, with granite from different sources.
As mentioned, granite in Europe is not sealed. Granito, or local granite in South America is also not sealed. I've seen some granite that is white opaque like powder snow with bit and flakes of lime flecks in it that looked very soft and a good candidate for staining. One might think it delicate. In a demonstration, it did not stain when a cut of marble did, and was rock-hard.
Granite here is usually slab cut, milled, and polished using NC orbital head machines, (4-8), with water, and polishing compounds. Unless it is being used for an architectural wall treatment outside, and flamed to expand and pop the crystals, well polished granite is left alone to be later cut and possibly edged. No sealers ever.
I first ran into the pitch about sealers in California. When I read the can contents being promoted, the salesman agreed that food should not touch, or come in contact with a sealed granite surface. " I wouldn't " was the comment, so I asked why then was it being sold. " Appearance-Nothing more " was the reply.
By the way, Lead-based polishing went out of fashion with the Romans, and would not be allowed today in the EU and most countries if found. In fact it would be confiscated.
Sealers do not as a rule penetrate slab cut and polished rock. If one reads the product specifications and material data safety documents, sealers are a topical application for the surface only. Same as concrete which you would agree is much more porous.
re: josephnl
Sorry, but many people are misinformed by counter top dealers. Granite sold in the US is from all over the world. The largest importer being Brazil, which is where Ubatuba is from. MANY granites do not need sealing, but some have higher porosity ratings and do. I always suggest testing an area by dropping a few drops of water and letting it sit for 5 min. to see if it absorbs....very simple. And you can't beat the beauty of natural stone!
I participated in this thread some 3 years. Well, our builder fir our custom built house was told to qoute the coutnertops for silstone, well he did a poor job of quoting everything, the countertop was no exception. We went with a middle grade granite and it is beautiful. It does not require sealing, it still looks beautiful 3 years later, BUT... I have found several very small knicks in the surface. Probably where the coffee pot hit the counter, a pot tumbled, etc. they are very small but i know they are there. Next time we build it will be quartz.
re: wekick
Oops...on my multiple posts on this thread I have praised our Silestone. I have just learned that we have Cambria, not Silestone engineered quartz in out kitchen and Corian in our baths. We absolutely love the Cambria, it requires no maintenance whatsoever, has never chipped or scratched, is very heat resistant, wipes off with a wet sponge and looks great. What else would I want? I suspect that Silestone is quite similar, but I have no personal experience with it.
re: lrobertsrnccm
I can't say for certain, but I would hazard a guess that the small knicks you are seeing in your granite are actually natural pits that are inherent in some granites. I am glad to see that you have chosen a color that does not require sealing. One thing that I would look into before purchasing quartz is..."if I can knick granite, can I knick the quartz too"?
I wonder if tile will ever regain its popularity? Have had tile countertops in my kitchen for 18 years. I take pans directly out of my oven and toss them on the island. I sanitize with bleach or anything else I want. No scratches, rings, watermarks or stains, and have 2 built-in butcher block insert for cutting. Just a thought.
re: Iglooman
Yes, it's important to love the look of whatever surface you select. Nevertheless, it's at least equally important to fully research, understand and accept the pros and cons of the surface you select. Corian, granite and engineered quartz (such as Silestone) each have distinct advantages and disadvantages which need to be weighed when making your choice. If there were one clear winner, this thread would not have the 400+ posts it does. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as "going with the one you love"
I am so glad I found this discussion about countertops. I am looking for a bath vanity now and in a year a kitchen one. I have looked for months for the bath vanity starting out looking at all vanities. I narrowed down to one and realized it was 72". Then I decided I wanted white carrea marble. When I found it, I realized one could stain and etch it easily. Next, I decided on a man-made countertop; until I decided it looked fake in the pictures (it's plain white and does not say what it's made out of). Yesterday I decided on granite; yet the only one I could find was 71" and not double mirrored. I like the vanity shorter to show off my long rectangular blue, grey and black tiles behind it. The other tile on my walls and tub are white carrea marble-looking ceramic tile. I have been looking for months and even quit for awhile. I was going to pick a vanity from Bath and Kitchen Warehouse or Modern Kitchen. My only granite choice was 72" long and one mirror . One vanity had loads of names below a black granite like nougat. I wasn't sure if they were granite. I do not want chrome hardware which knocks alot of vanities out. The ones I came up with are around $2,000 for a 62" vanity. I'm just all confused about the countertop. I know something will be spilled or etched on it over the years. It is not said what the quality is. My friends think I'm nuts ,because I take so long deciding on anything I buy. I also read Consumer Guide. It took 2 years to pick out my living room paint and I'm still looking for geometric drapes. My home is what you would call a very nice middle-class home. Help me, people.
re: ocddeb
Don't know if you've already chosen, but I'm not understanding why you don't have a custom vanity made? I'm in process with one now, about 65" for less than $2,000. Have ordered a beautiful white-with-some-movement granite slab for the top and extra pieces will be cut for the shower step-up and a pony-wall top. No way I'd do marble for a bath countertop, nor some of the synthetics--they leave too many water rings and too much likelihood of staining. What did you decide to go with?
re: ocddeb
I still haven't decided! I came close a couple of days ago. I need a 65" vanity also. (which there is none) So your light -colored granite works? It doesn't stain the granite with toothpaste and hair spray. That sounds good. My only other problem is I tend to hire companies that rip me off--one was a roofing company and the other a contractor that ripped me off $12,000. I just saw real estate renovation on t.v. where a guy put in white carrea marble kitchen countertops! How is that possible. Someone mentioned a dark granite ( I think) that they just let stain. Mixed up black would be too much for my carrera marble walls and rectagle tiles, I think. Your light granite still look good. Thanks for replying!
re: ocddeb
Hi ocddeb -
1. Light coloured granite, dark brown granite, black granite if high-polished do not stain. I have all these colours in granite, and they hold up, including a white with gold striations in Brasil. No stains in 13 years, including a granite "cover " over an 8 foot wooden dining table..
2. " Carrera " marble: Actually the true name is Carrara, quarried from the town of the same name in Tuscano. It can be cut into tiles which are most common, but also into slabs. Decades ago I was involved in a project to sheath an airport building in Carrara tiles in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.
Slab countertop, tabletop, or tiles, it all can be done, but at significant cost.
3. Shop around. When we were living in California, we wanted granite in the kitchen to replace a well-worn formica countertop. The first quote at a local Home Depot was flat $ 5K USD, without even looking at our drawings or measurements for a very small L-shaped kitchen. The salesman barely opened his eyes to make that dubious statement, so Thank You and Goodbye.
By shopping around we found a company in the San Fernando Valley called Stone Mart, with pre-milled and polished countertops at $ 500. USD each. ( 8'x 24 " ). We decided to add a kitchen island, + granite floor tiles from the same source. The total cost came in at $1,385 USD, which included bullnosing, all sink and cooktop cuts, flooring, and installation.
Subcontractors: I would shop this too. Most of the installers we spoke with wanted to use their own granite or stone sources, and not ours, even if it was the same granite ! Sure, why not, as it is profitable to them. They make money on a mark-up of the wholesale price of the product they use, and the installation.
But if you find a granite or marble you like, stay with it, and speak to the supplier. The suppliers have subcontractors they work with, who can supply what you want, to your satisfaction. We utilized Stone Mart's subcontractors who walked us through the entire process including the installation. We were happy with the outcome, and knew exactly what was used, and how it was done.
When that house was sold a few years later, the "custom granite kitchen " was the photographed selling point advertised by the realtor. Not the pool, den, living room, the citrus trees, and not the location. The house sold in 19 hours, and closed very quickly.
Six years now and I still have had no problems with my corian - very easy upkeep.
Maybe we can take pictures of our kitchens/counters and post here. Would love to see everyone's kitchens and countertops.-
re: Sadiekylea
Corian is used in the food industry, hospitals and retirement homes. It is non-porous and will not promote bacteria growth. In the event that it cracks you can have it repaired for free by Dupont (some restrictions apply) if your granite or stone countertop cracks your out of luck.
I love Corian it is easy to maintain you do not have to reseal anything.
re: Iglooman
We have Corian in our bathrooms...we love it! We have Silestone in our kitchen, which we like even more! Corian is a beautiful product which has many advantages, and although I would not hesitate to use it in a bathroom, I would not want it in a kitchen.
Corian is easily scratched (it is relatively soft) and wet glasses or containers which are set down on the surface create rings. True the scratches can be buffed out (it's a solid product, not a veneer) and rings can be removed with mildly abrasive cleansers such as Barkeeper's Friend. Nevertheless, these are disadvantages in a kitchen where scratching and rings are likely to occur.
I can think of no disadvantage to Silestone in a kitchen...if you like the look of it, which we do. It requires no maintenance whatsoever. It is naturally bacteriostatic. It is very hard and very scratch resistant. It is very easily cleaned. I have heard that it can be cracked if a heavy pot is dropped on it from a high distance, but this seems very unlikely to occur on a countertop. We love our Silestone kitchen...as we do our Corian bath...but I don't think the two products are equally appropriate for a kitchen.
re: josephnl
I respectfully disagree. I have had Corian in my last 2 homes. It holds up beautifully in the kitchen. I am a professional chef and it is so easy to clean. I think you may see scratches on black--I have had light colors and no scratches. I just helped Mom redo her kitchen. She had Silestone and it cracked. You can't fix it. What a shame! She looked at granite, but after walking the granite yards, it all looked the same. The designer did not know I loved Corian and he encouraged us to consider Corian with an integrated sink, the same color. I am so jealous, but happy for Mom. It is unbelievable. We will take pix and add.
re: Sadiekylea
We have light colored Corian in our bathroom, and although it looks great, leaving a wet glass on it always produces a ring which requires an abrasive cleanser to remove. Does this not happen in your kitchen? How did your Mom crack her Silestone counter? We certainly do not coddle ours, but after 6 years it looks as perfect as the day it was installed. The same is true for the Corian in our baths, but we're always rubbing put scratches, and needing to use abrasive cleansers on the countertops or contiguous Corian sinks. Also, I personally prefer the appearance of the glossy Silestone kitchen counters to the matte surface of the Corian in our baths.
So, for me, Corian is great in our baths, but i much prefer the look and ease of care of Silestone in our kitchens.
re: Sadiekylea
I will be fabricating a vanity this week in Linen colored Corian - I have been around this material for over 25 years in my opinion it is far superior to any stone out there. If your granite or stone based countertop cracks (they do) your out of luck repairing it. Corian can be repaired (that is what I do) and in 99.9% of the time can not tell if a repair was done. Dupont stands behind their product 100% if your familiar with Tim Hortins all their newer stores have Corian on the counters and in the washrooms.
re: Iglooman
What about my two complaints regarding Corian? 1) Wet glasses, etc. leave rings which cannot just be wiped off...they are easily removed, but require a mildly abrasive cleanser, and 2) Corian being much softer than any stone is much more easily scratched. Correct?
I know that stone can crack, but it seems to me that it would require a major incident for this to happen...perhaps dropping a Dutch oven onto a countertop from a foot above...very unlikely to occur.
Our kitchen remodel was done by a certified kitchen designer and a contractor who specializes in kitchens. Both recommended stone over Corian for the kitchen...but Corian was a great choice for our bathroom counters, sinks and showers.
re: josephnl
1) One advantage for Corian is that it is non-porous the water will not penetrate through and it is very likely what you describe. However a major disadvantage to stone is that you have to apply sealer to it (this sealer will wear away) the stone will absorb anything wine, water, soda, chocolate milk - the stain will be permanent.2) If you use your counter-top as a cutting board it will scratch that is why we recommend using a cutting board - we fabricate one for the consumer out of the sink cut out and leave a piece with the consumer for any future repairs.
Corian can be repaired and this should be considered a major advantage over any stone product - I found that 99% of the repairs I do were a result of poor fabrication and installation methods.
Stone is very inexpensive compared to Corian they will source out the cheapest fabricator to maximize their profits. A question to ask your certified kitchen designer is warranty what happens if my countertop cracks or stains how much will it cost annually to have it re-sealed? what happens if I do not reseal it.
Last year I received a claim from Dupont to repair an inside corner crack upon inspection it was determined that the repair could be done but the material would not match exactly and the repaired area would be visible. Dupont solution was to replace her entire countertop at no charge to her. How many other companies would do this?
People have choices and they purchase what they want with the information they have. I personally found that most consumers are satisfied with Corian and will recommend the product to their friends and family. I have also been asked if I could repair stone based countertops and unfortunately they can not be repaired.
re: Iglooman
Although granite requires sealing, engineered quartz such as Silestone does not. In fact, there is no maintenance whatsoever with Silestone.
Of course, I would never cut directly on any countertop. Nevertheless, because Corian is much softer than Silestone, it scratches pretty easily. Even in our bathrooms where we love our Corian countertops, sinks and showers, small scratches do occur. In a kitchen, I would think that scratches could easily occur just from putting cans or even a heavy cold pot on the counter.
Also, as said previously, we are always scrubbing rings left by shaving cream cans or water glasses off our Corian. This does not happen with Silestone.
If anyone is redoing a kitchen and is trying to decide between Corian and Silestone (or other engineered quartz), I would strongly recommend buying a 18" square sample of each surface, putting both on your kitchen counters, and try them out for a few weeks. I think this will make the decision easier. We love our Silestone, and see no downside to it.
re: josephnl
I have solid surface in my house and I have had it for years and have never had any issues with rings from a wet glass. We keep the counter clean with soap and water. I have a gloss finish which looks really nice. It does have some minor scratches but you can't see them unless you are looking for them. My counters are maintenance free and I love it. I have seen granite and quartz both with minor scratches if you look for them and I have seen stains that will not come out even after a "professional" tried to remove. Anyone that tells you that granite does not need sealing is just trying to make a sale or if they try to sell you on a "lifetime sealer" you might want to read the fine print and disclaimers. Nothing is guaranteed for life. There is always a catch.
re: ctconnect
Are your "solid surface" countertops Corian. We have Corian in our bathrooms and wet glasses, soap dishes, shaving cans all leave rings. No big deal, they are easily removed with SofScrub and we do like the molded-in sinks. Nevertheless, because of the rings and softness of Corian, we much prefer engineered quartz (Cambria) in our kitchen.
re: carnation55
we have Tumbleweed. Gorgeous. Talk to the supplier or call DuPont directly and see who they recommend to do the best integrated sink. (Mine is 10.5 deep 33 wide) and Ask for pix....and even to see samples. It will blow your mind. I have referred so many to Corian. There are many cheap knock-offs, (never use them) but they do not stand behind their product like DuPont. We abuse this sink and it is like day one.
re: Sadiekylea
DuPont stands behind their product 110% they are professional to deal with. I do warranty work for them for all of Ontario and we are not busy at all. Corian is an awesome product and solid - a couple of years ago we rebuffed (sanded) a glacier white countertop that was over twenty years old and it was new again.
re: josephnl
I have had Silestone on my island for 5 years and love it too but recently found out, from reading this thread above, that the advertising about it being bacteriostatic is misleading in that the microban(triclosan) is incorporated in the material but does not keep the surface free from pathogens.
From Microban website.
"*Microban® antimicrobial product protection is engineered to help protect products from bacteria, mold and in some cases algae that can cause stains, odors and product deterioration. Microban protection is not designed to protect users from disease causing microorganisms." -
re: josephnl
One more major advantage of Silestone over Corian in a kitchen is heat resistance. Silestone is far less likely to scorch or burn than is Corian. Of course, no one should intentionally place a hot pot or pan directly on a countertop, but accidents do happen. Silestone is extremely heat resistant. Corian is not (DuPont says that it can tolerate temperatures up to 212 degrees F...ie, boiling water)!
Since I posted a few years ago, I have moved to a new house. Our new house came with the same old bland kitchen every other house in the development has: cherry cabinets, black granite countertops and stainless appliances. Every house in our development has the same builder's grade kitchens. The only thing we were able to upgrade were the hardwood floors from bamboo to real hardwood.
I still miss the old kitchen and Corian countertops. I do not like granite at all.
I have to say I LOVE my butcher board counters. My entire kitchen is a cutting board! It is awesome and my kitchen looks quaint and rustic country.
re: Eujeanie
If people knew what would be in vouge five years from know, do you honestly think we would have ever had Avacado Green? If you are looking to sell within 5 years, the one thing you don't want to do is go out on a limb. As Caroline1 stated, granite is going to be around for a very long time, it's too expensive to replace on a whim and it will hold up forever. Appliances on the other hand are going to out live your window, but a buyer would likely replace them in another 5 to 10 years anyway, so it's not as big a deal. The best advice for a sale is stay nutural, this way it may not be exciting to anyone, but it's not going to turn anyone off either.
UPDATE: After four years of heavy use, my kitchen Corian top in "Medea" (a solid color with a matte finish) still looks like new and everybody thinks I broke the bank with soapstone or concrete. Heh, heh! That's the object of the game far as I'm concerned! Read enough of these entries and you realize that except for metals you cant put hot pots and pans or chop things on any countertop without the risk of ruining it. And I dont know anybody that does. Personally, I have a smooth top stove and keep a wooden chopping board nearby for setting hot pots on.
My medium price level color of Corian was at least 20 dollars cheaper per sq foot, fabricated and installed, than the cheapest granite - and thats low end nothing special granite that would have looked ridiculous and probably would have had an ugly seam,. I used the money I saved for upgraded, more-fun-to-use appliances and fixtures.
re: chowter
A recent experience with Corian countertops:
My wife and I installed Granite for countertops and flooring. While inlaying the heating coil system just ahead of the granite floor installation, my neighbor's wife came over and asked me to look at head Kitchen countertop. I asked the tile installer to join us.
Her Corian was lifting in two places, as though someone cut into the Corian top with a meat cleaver, and pulled it back. It really looked bad, and she had no idea regarding the cause.
The tile setter explained that it was coming apart at the seams, or where it had been glued togather. He had seen this before. He said it needed to have a block of Corian glued under the seam to prevent heat sources from delaminating the Corian, which it did not have. At that point my neighbor recalled that she had now and then put hot pot lids down on the Corian a couple of times.
Unfortunately her installer had done a bad job, and was working elsewhere in another trade, The local DuPont manufacture representative, despite being shown warranty documentation, refused to honour as a warrantied product when the condition got worse, due to the poor installation.
As a result, my tile setter received a new job to remove the Corian and install new Granite countertops for my neighbor. He pointed out to both of us that while Granite may stain ( use Ajax with water as a paste, cover with plastic and leave taped for a day, then clean ), being a rock it will not delaminate if aa hot pot or lid is placed on it.
re: flourgirl
I quite agree.
In this case my neighbor stated that she was told she could do that by the installer, as the new Corian " was just like Granite. "
An interesting fact also about this incident was that the seam that delaminated was one meter (3 feet ?) away from where she had set the lid to her cooker/steamer appliance lid down. It did not happen directly under the spot where the lid had been placed.
No heat problem with Granite like this. I might add that we aslo avoided any final Urethane finish coatings being applied to the countertops to avoid problems with food contamination. Just plain Granite, highly polished and cleaned, which we were invited to see being done and what was used ( non-Lead products ) along the way in the process.
re: flourgirl
Heh, after so many years, growing up with laminate countertops and still haven't had anything different even in my current house (and quite possibly still won't even if I get to redo the kitchen in this house, which I might), I doubt I could ever put a pot down on a counter. It's just so ingrained not to. So even at a relative's house with granite, I wouldn't do that. I generally have no reason to anyway and don't get it as a big selling point.
re: CrazyOne
There are lots of people, including many people here on CH, who admit they would never put hot pots etc. on their granite counters for the simple reason that granite is very expensive & it's not worth taking the slight chance that they may crack. There are also some granites that are sealed with sealers that don't hold up well to such treatment.
re: flourgirl
Granite will not crack from a heated pot or pan. They might scratch the polished surface, so your good point flourgirl is very well taken.
One Granite treatment for building exteriors is to run the slabs over gas jet, which cause the crystals inside the granite to expand and pop. This leave a nice looking but rough-sharp exterior to the finish, useful where one does not want anyone leaning against the surface. I cook the most in our family, and that treatment takes 1200 - 1500 F, not found in most kitchens, at least not mine.
Having installed Granite in other properties since our first kitchen, we found however that it will BREAK, and quite easily, when carried or twisted the wrong way when unsupported. If adding any stone slab to a countertop or as a table covering, it is best to adhese it to a supporting piece of thick marine plywood, well anchored into the cabinet top. Common plywood or ACX will expand if a large amount of water gets into it, where as Marine ply, having water-proof glue in the layers will not. The peace of mind is worth the little extra expense.
We had a problem with a rental property getting cigarette burns, and other marks in a large wood dining table for 10. I drew up a " cover " of a white Granite with gold streaks found common to Fortaleza, Brasil, with a large bullnose edge. When it was finished and delivered, I put Marine Ply on top of the table ( in this case free floating ) first, and then adhesive on the ply with the Granite cover finally set on top.
The legs were quite stout so the table can even be moved by 2 people. No marks or problems since, including children hammering on it, since 2004.
re: SWISSAIRE
"Granite will not crack from a heated pot or pan."
I have done research on this issue - and there are several sources that differ with you on this subject. They almost all say that it is very unlikely, but that the chance of thermal shock still exists.
I don't have granite - but if I did, I wouldn't put hot stuff on them.
re: flourgirl
If granite cracked from putting a hot pan on it, it would be because there is a fissure (hairline crack not easily seen with the naked eye) in the granite and you just happened to put the hot pan in exactly the right spot.
My current granite countertops were installed a few years back (as I say above) and I've been putting hot pans on the granite since the day they were installed with no problems.
I think people treat countertops the way their mom treated what they grew up with, at least until they learn differently. I grew up with ceramic tiles and my mother put everything hot on them without a trivet EXCEPT Pyrex or ceramic. The cold of the countertop or granite would be too much thermal shock for the ceramic to handle. But I will add that years ago, when Corning Ware pyroceram pots and pans were popular, I thermal shocked those puppies all the time with no problem. But just like the tiles on the space shuttle, they would discolor ffrom heat in time, especially if I burned something in them, and I never ever came close to re-entry heat of the shuttle! Maybe that's why they're not around much any more. Or are they and I'm just blind? '-)
re: flourgirl
Not really. First off, the likelihood of it "granulating" from the thermal shock like some sort of tephra from a volcano is nil, so I'm not going to bbe left with a gaping hole in my counter top. It's also unlikely that it would fissure in a way that makes it fall into the cupboard below in chunks. The compounds they have for joining and sealing and gluing stone today are quite remarkabe. It would be a really rare case in which I would have to replace the whole counter top. And because mine is a solid black and extremely hard granite, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to see the repair. Now, mottled granites and lighter color stones are a whole other thing! They will stain and oil will mark them. I would not have those in my kitchen. It's why I chose very very hard black granite. It's as close to basalt as I could and still have granite.
re: Donna52479
I've read this nearly 6 year long thread with interest. We are going to (finally) be redoing our kitchen, and I'm afraid we've missed the boat on the granite-and-stainless-steel "look"...I want to know, can anyone venture a guess as to what the "next big thing" will be...we'd rather be on the forefront of something new, than the tail end of something that will be dated in a few years.
re: Eujeanie
The future fad, let me whip up an incantation for my crystal ball, ah, there it is; turquoise cabinets and pink formica counter top with matching pastel appliances. Wait, wait, there's a little avocado green sneaking into the picture.
Honestly, I don't think you have missed the window. Some friends just had a designer do their kitchen and it's all granite counter top and stainless steel. We just finished our kitchen and it's granite counter top and stainless steel appliances. We've been doing the local kitchen tour, either new builds or new remodels and they are predominatly stainless and granite. Now my son just did a minor remodel at his house and put in granite counter top but his wife wanted white appliances. She believes SS is a fad. I can't imagine granite going out of style any time soon, but who really knows.
re: Eujeanie
My own suspicion is that stainless steel will be with us a while longer.... a LONG while longer! My kitchen is all stainless, and it's a love hate relationship. Keeping it polished is a requirement and stainless steel is NOT stainless! But it did increase my property value. That said, there is only one color for appliances that never goes out of style but hardly ever is the most popular color and that is white. But if you put in a ceramic cooktop or buy a stove with a ceramic cooktop, you do NOT want one of those in white. They will enslave you keeping them new looking.
The great attraction of granite over any other countertop material is durability and (if you choose the right color or keep the wrong color well sealed) its ability to resist stains and withstand all heat. It's ROCK! Mine is black, never needs resealing, is stain proof, and the thing I love about it is I can tell at a glance if it is not immaculately clean! I use Windex for a streak free finish every time.
When it comes to fashion in kitchens, the high end in and low end in countertops has been granite and formica since the 1950s or earlier. For a few decades (or more( in the early to late middle 20th century, ceramic tile was the leader, though soapstone and granite were in the picture to a lesser extent. Cermic tile is extremely durable but the grout is not, though it's much better than it used to be. But it stains, must be sealed, and eventually breaks down and erodes. But good grout today should be good for a decade or more. ALL stones and ceramic tile are impevious to heat, but you do have to be careful you con't damage your cookware. You can crack a cast iron skillet by taking it off the heat and setting it on a cold stone countertop in the wintertime. Or summer. With Formica you have the problem of burning the formica if you put a really hot pan on it. It's a LOT cheaper to replace a pan than a countertop.
Learn about ALL of the countertops you are attracted to. And when I say learn about them, that includes maintenance and how fragile they are. I wouldn't have a real wood butcher block counter top if I won it as a prize! But if I had to go with formica for budget reasons, I might very well consider a butcher block formica simulation. Investigate the things you like the look of first, then compare all of the other stuff with other materials. Don't worry so much about what's going to be in style. Focus on what YOU like and want to live with for a looooong time UNLESS you're upgading the house in order to sell it. ONLY if you're planning on selling a house in the near future should you bother thinking about what the other guy will like. If you're there long term, go with what you want for YOU. No sense "camping out" in your own home. Good luck!
re: Caroline1
Excellent advice. We followed it almost to a tee. We boght a very fluid granite, lots of color, looks really cool, you have no idea, I mean none, if there is something on it or not. You could loose a glass for gosh sakes. That is the obvious double edged sward. If it's got something on it you don't know, so you just have to assume it's dirty and clean it regardless.
The stainless steel appliances are as you say, a constant effort to keep them sparkeling clean, but when they are clean, they really look nice. But it is a lot of work. The important thing is that our kitchen is what we wanted and we will live here for a very looooong time. And that's the best advice of all.
re: Caroline1
I've only ever had plastic laminate counters. I've had fake butcher block and it doesn't wear well at all. I prefer a more solid color, or something with printed texture, but with an actual flat surface. I've also had a white counter with a little texture, and it was hard to keep totally white.
I'd say that laminate, with care, can look goof for about 10 years. After that, it will start to look shabby. If you put in a kitchen and had to cut costs you could put in laminate, and add better counters in a few years.
I like all your comments in this thread Caroline1. Thanks for the good information.
I went with Ceasarstone for my renovated kitchen in my Craftsman home. I had granite in my last home, which I loved, but it didn't feel right for this home. I knew marble wouldn't hold up - my BF alone would have killed it. I had originally picked out a quartzite "Madre Perla" but it turned out to be way out of my budget and as it turns out, I think it wouldn't have worn well either.
The Ceasarstone is wonderful. I got it in "Jerusalem Sand", which looks like a limestone. It's easy to clean up, no scratches, has a real stone appearance, and I liked that it didn't have a busy feel to it. It's been in about 1-1/2 years now and still looks brand new.
I'm very happy with it. I did a lot of research before making the final decision, in fact it was the one thing in the kitchen which I probably spent the most time on. Highly recommend it.
I work as an estimator at a stone fabrication shop, so I hear this question all the time. We always recommend granite. It's the most durable material that you can put in your kitchen, and you can get granite at a comparable price to quartz surfaces (aka Silestone). Make sure that you talk to a knowledgeable fabricator because they can steer you toward a granite that fits your needs. Because there are durability variances within granite also.
In terms of quartz products, we usually recommend Caesarstone because - of the quartz brands - they have the best warranty. But, although durable, quartz surfaces are never quite as durable as granite. They require certain allowances on the edges or they're liable to chip if hit by a heavy pot.
As far as granite versus marble. Marble is a base. If you spill red wine, tomato, vinegar (anything acidic) it will eat away at the stone. Many people like marble for its old-world feel, but keep in mind that it is much softer and more porous than granite, so it will stain and etch.
You also could do Soapstone as some one else recommended. Soapstone is soft like marble. In fact, some soapstones are soft enough to scratch with your fingernail.
Ultimately, the choice is based off of your needs and preferences, but based off of durability alone, granite is by far your best bet. Also, if you don't like a polished surface, you can get the granite "honed" which is a matte finish.
re: melval
melval - thanks for clearing up my question that I was going to call the granite guy with - honed/polished! We are in the process of finalizing on Golden Crema Light. Any comments?
I was told that I will need a seam on my back countertop which is like an L shape set underneath cabinets and blocked in by fridge on one side and double wall oven on the other. I hope that will be ok.
re: melval
We have Silestone and love it. It's about 6 years old and looks new. Although we don't abuse it, we don't coddle it either and it seens very strong and chip resistant. It is ~ 1 1/2 inches thick, and the rounded edges seem pretty unlikely to chip. Requires no care whatsoever, whereas we have been told that granite requires occasional sealing.
I LOVE MARBLE -- and have been in the process of planning my new dream kitchen for the last two years. The topic of marble vs. granite is the sticking point. We have an old house and I want a Carerra marble top but am afraid of the spaghetti sauce/red wine stains that could occur the first week!! Is there a marble that looks similar that holds up better?? Or is all marble the same in terms of wearability? Makes me wonder how all my favorite kitchens in Traditional Home and House Beautiful have marble but they don't mention this!! Anybody have another idea on this marble controversy??
re: MarieKenny
Just to throw another hat in the ring - I rebuilt our kitchen about ten years ago and I had the same agonising over worktop material. I eventually settled on large fully vitrified biscuit porcelain tiles. They look great, are abused all the time with hot pots, and have never shown any sign of cracking, scratching or staining. The most common use of this material in the UK is for tiling car showroom floors, as it is very strong and is utterly impervious to liquids.
re: MarieKenny
I am not an expert on marble by any means, but I do know that "tumbled marble" is supposedly very popular for kitchens and baths nowadays BUT is a care/maintenance nightmare. A relative of mine redid a shower a few years ago in tumbled marble tile and raved about how beautiful it was (and it did look quite nice); but she soon regretted it even though it was sealed after installation. In three years she has had it professionally cleaned and sealed TWICE and still cannot get the grout or tiles to stay clean. She was told (after the fact!) to never use a harsh cleanser, never anything abrasive or even rough, never use anything with bleach, never use anything acidic, never use Windex, etc etc etc on marble --- but none of the "approved" cleaners can get the showe clean! So this year she just started using a bleach-based cleaner and figures she'll need to get it resealed every year until she saves up enough money to have the shower ripped out and redone in .... Corian or Swanstone! LOL
She turned up her nose originally at the Corian walls and ceiling we put in our shower (no grout, and a swift squeegee-ing just before exiting the shower is all the basic maintenance needed, looks first-day-brand-new 9 years later) because it looked "so plain" -- but now every time she visits, she says "I should have done what you did" because she hates the porosity of the marble.
re: MarieKenny
Marie, The interior decorator (Holly) on "Things That Inspire" site told me that Greek marble is as hard as granite, so it doesn't scratch as easily as the Italian marbles. It will still etch, but you can eliminate half your problems by using a hard marble. Holly said her fabricator told her he would only put Greek or Vermont marble in a kitchen, because they are much harder than the others. I think this is it: http://www.quarry-select.com/?gclid=C...
re: UtahMom54
I would never dream of using marble in a kitchen, except as a separate pastrymaking surface - even for that, a slab of granite is just as good if less pretty. Basically, *any* kind of marble is porous and *will* stain, so that beautiful new-install worktop will look very sad after a short while when compared to granite, or especially to Silestone and similar engineered products. The point of a worktop is that you can *work* on it, it's not something to hang on the wall and be admired - marble is fine for bathrooms and walls generally, but not for kitchen countertops.
re: MarieKenny
MarieKenny, All marble will etch with acidic foods, although some are harder to stain than others. The deal breaker against Cararra for me was I had a new non-burning red candle that got put on a 6 inch sample of Cararra marble. I'm pretty good at getting any kind of stain out of anything, but nothing would take this stain out. The only think I didn't try a warm iron and paper towels which might have worked, as I understand it works to get out candle wax out of tablecloths. Now, if you don't mind the etching, you might consider Vermont marble or Greek marble as they are harder and more stain resistant. Some of the Greek marble looks very similar to Cararra. See this link:
I was strongly considering Greek marble per Holly (Int. Designer) with "Things That Inspire" blog's recommendations as follows, but decided against because of the etching issues: Here's her e-mail reply to me in Nov. 2011 about her experience with it in her kitchen, which might prove helpful to you if you're set on marble:
Hi Eve-
Yes, I did end up going with marble in the kitchen. However, instead of Italian marble, I used Greek marble. There is a place in Atlanta that represents the quarries in Greece, and a blog reader told me about it. Greek marble is different than Italian marble; it is less absorbent than granite, and harder than granite. Instead of the wave like patterns that you see in Italian marble, it has ripples - so it looks different, but I love the look. It is very peaceful looking, very white appearance.
Believe it or not, Greek marble does not stain! I am very good about cleaning up my counters after cooking and after meals, so I tend to clean things up right away if they spill, but I have spilled tomato sauce, BBQ sauce, tea, etc on the marble and no staining at all. The marble guy said that one of his clients made a tombstone for his dog out of the marble that I have in my kitchen, and even after years in the Georgia red clay, no staining. It does etch as all marble etches, so we have some water rings. Luckily, based on the sunlight exposure in my kitchen, you only really see it from a certain angle. I try to be careful about acids - lemon juice, orange juice, vinegar - and I have a cutting board near my sink, but so far so good. I cook a fair amount, but I have only been in the house for 2 months so time will tell.
The stone guy sealed my countertops with a really good sealer, and told me to look at ingredients on spray cleaners to make sure that there are no acids (many cleaners have acids, so do many of the soaps). I clean my counters either with plain water, or Method lavender scent.
I did caesarstone in the downstairs laundry room (in misty carrera color), and did corian in the upstairs laundry room (in rice paper color), and I love both of these surfaces - they are truly indestructible. Many designers in Atlanta use caesarstone for kitchens, in a 5 cm thickness. It just didn't fit with the French feel of my house, so I went with the Greek marble.
There is a Vermont marble that is also very, very hard and doesn't stain - Imperial Danby. It has that rippled, subtle look that is different than Italian marble but still pretty.
I do think that granite is a great surface if you can get one that you like, because it does not react to acids. It just wasn't the look that I wanted.
Also, as far as scratches are concerned, I have not noticed any scratching - I have a honed surface - and I also did marble in my master bathroom (polished). My corian in the old house was very scratched up, but it was also 23 years since it was installed.
Best of luck in your search! Cote de Texas just did a post on marble, and Mrs. Howard personal shopper just did a post too. People feel very torn about marble. My marble guy said he would never put Italian marble in a kitchen - he would only do Greek marble and Vermont marble because of their hardness and their different composition.
- Holly
re: MarieKenny
I see this all the time. In Europe, Carrara marble is used often, but they view the scratches, etching and minimal stains as part of the material's natural patina. It becomes part of their family's story. Here in America we want it to stay "perfect" just like the day we put it in. The major problem is with the etching. This occurs when anything that is acidic touches the surface (lemons, tomatoes...) You get a slight abrasion to the surface and it takes off the shine. Most people who use Marble as a Kitchen surface decide to have the material "honed" as compared to the polished finish. This helps to camouflage the etching. There are also some great sealers out there too. And most of the sealers that are commercially distributed are approved for food prep areas after drying. Good luck!
My wife and I recently visited our multo-millionaire friends who have "slab granite" countertops in the kitchen. They kept reminding us not to leave water on the counter and to wipe it up immediately (as they reminded us that it was "slab granite." and it could etch the granite. Sheesh!. Me and the old lady wound uip doubling up on our Valiums to keep from having a nervous breakdown., We were so happy to return to our own house with its Corian completey renewable countertop...in Media color, which looks like slate and can be refinished in a few minutes to restore its original appearance if need be - shiny or matte...whatever you like. And we didn't have to take out a second mortgage to purchase the stuff.
re: Donna52479
True, the "invisible seams" of Corian is a plus, and if quartz has ONE mini-downside it is that with an "L" setup, there is going to be an actual seam somewhere. A good installer should be able to make that almost invisible though (and of course the actual color/pattern chosen can help a lot too!).
For instance if we'd put quartz in our kitchen instead of Corian, there would have been 2 visible seams (because there are two right-angle turns; it's actually a wide U-shape work area although one of the sides is only about one-third the length of the other (after the shorter end stops, there's the refrigerator and then the pair of double ovens along the rest of that wall).
I still would rather have scratch-free maintenance-free quartz with seams, than scratch-prone seamless Corian or any kind of granite.
re: skyline
Skyline, I think some of the people on this site may be using the name "Corian" synonymously with a myriad of other fly by the night solid surface countertops, which were inferior to actual Corian. My Corian kitchen is in the bsmt. apartment of my home, which we rent. With all the abuse of 10 years of different renters about annually, I have only had the countertops buffed out once for a "series of fork stab marks" a tenants' son put in the island. My countertops and the Corian cutting board looked like new again after the buffing and it cost only a nominal service charge. Otherwise, no scratches. I am pretty sure that you can't do that with quartz, which I've read also emits radon like granite; since it is approximately 95 percent ground natural quartz with 5 percent polymer resins. Another biggie for Corian is that I think it's a lot easier to clean up than natural stone. I have deliberately left food on some natural stone--granite & marble samples and Corian samples to compare how hard it would be to get raspberry jam off after it sat there for a few hours. I have moderate arthritis in my hands, which I think scrubbing the tile kitchen countertops upstairs contributed to, so ease of clean ability is important to me. I tested granite (jam came off with harder scrubbing) and marble (which was similar in cleanabilty but it also etched). A red non- burning candle sat on the marble sample overnight and left a red stain that I haven't been able to get out with anything. I did not put quartz to this "ease of clean ability" test, but would expect about the same as the granite--clean up wise with possibly less staining. I am remodeling the upstairs kitchen and will probably put the "Glacier White Corian" in it too. I have cherry cabinets and brazilian cherry hardwood floors in my upstairs kitchen.
re: UtahMom54
Hi UtahMom54 - I am fabrication shop owner in CA. Actually, although the Corian name is synonomous with the material we refer to as "acrylic", it truly is all the same material, whether it is Staron, Hi-Mac, Wilsonart, Living Stone, Avonite, etc. My one suggestion is to give thought about a Glacier White top. The solid white colors although we still do a bit, are more dated looking and because there is no particulate to detract the eye, you see every scratch in it. Vanity tops do not get the same wear as kitchen, but they still get scratched. If someone really wants something white, I recommend something like Staron's Pebble Frost which is a total "white on white", or Corian "Antarctica" or Hi-Mac "Arctic Granite" which are white on white but with a faint beige particulates. With cherry cabinets you can do so much!! Cherry is very warm. I would suggest finding a color that had a cream background instead of the stark white. Also, something with a particulate in it that will showcase the cherry, something like Living Stone "Chestnut" or Corian "Granola". (the Living Stone is the Corian knock off of this color).If you like greens, Corian Private Collection "Sagebrush" looks beautiful with cherry. This color has texture and movement instead of just partculates.
With regard to radon, it was actually associated with granite, not the quartz. Although granite does emit a very small percentage, (your cell phone is more dangerous then the granite), the rumor was actually started by one of the quartz manufacturers. I won't mention their name as I sell a lot of their product, but it was a dishonorable thing to do to try and discredit someone else in the industry. My Best, Jodi, owner, Monarch Solid Surface Designs, SJ CA-
re: monarchssdesigns
Regarding the radiation scare, it's worth noting that most of the older part of Aberdeen, Scotland is built entirely from solid granite (hence 'the Silver City') and there have been zero reports of any ill effects from the many thousands of tons of this material, even though those houses have stood for longer than the USA has existed! BTW, for those who love open fires, it's worth noting that coal is also radioactive to about the same degree as granite! :-)
re: MadMacStew
MadMacStew, Per my extensive research, the radon in granite is a problem when it is in your house, not in the ground. The reason being that our homes are built to be airtight, which keeps the radon gases building up indoors that are continually being released from the deteriorating stone. Granite and quartzite both release radon, marble does not, as it is primarily calcium, but it's also unsuitable for kitchens with etching, staining, high maintenance issues. Even if it's crushed up quartzite like that used in surfaces like silestone the "possible" radon issues made me too nervous to consider it, I have read that if you have had cancer, why increase your risk when there are options that don't release any radon. My DH had thyroid cancer 13 years ago and had to have his thyroid gland removed and takes synthroid, which has produced setbacks for him! Consequently, I shy away from exposing my family to any unnecessary radon. I do know that some high end builders are putting in outside air recirculation systems that recycle fresh air from outdoors into the home. I suppose opening a window might help the radon gases to escape for those who have it and are concerned. I also understand that some granites have higher levels of radon than others. For example, some with red in the stone have more radon. If you have granite, you can research levels found in your particular stone or have it tested. Also, in recent news homes built with concrete floors get more radon in homes (can get a substantial amount from even a pinhole crack in a basement floor) than homes build up on blocks, etc. Do you know if homes in Aberdeen, Scotland are built up on blocks with the air space in between them and the earth? Thanks for the info on coal. We have gas fireplaces, but used to burn coal occasionally in a wood burning stove in a former home.
re: UtahMom54
Hi Holly,
You may be missing the point about Aberdeen - the houses are not built *on* granite, they are built *of* granite. A large part of the city has houses that are 100-200 years old, built from 18-inch thick solid granite blocks - it's locally quarried stone, so not that expensive at the time. There is no reported incidence of radon being a problem, or of excess cancer rates in the area. If you've ever been to northeast Scotland, you'll be aware that, due to the very cold and windy climate, houses have small windows that are essentially never opened from October to March! :-)
re: UtahMom54
The scares about radon gas being emitted by granite countertops is most often promoted by manufacturers of alternative materials. They do it to drive up the hysteria over indoor pollutants and (hopefully) get more business for themselves. It's an evil thing to do.
Which is NOT to say that all homes should not be checked for radon gas, but if you have it, it does NOT mean it's coming from your granite countertops! Radon gas is a natural ground emission in some geological settings. Depending on where you live (the geological lay of your particular plot of land and its environs), the building codes that were in effect when your house was built, and whether or not your house is built on a slab, you MAY have a problem. If your little segment of the earth's crust has underground deposits of uranium or other naturally occurring radioactive ores/deposits in the ground you may well have radon gas naturally leaking into your home AND into the atmosphere from the ground outside. If you live in an area anywhere near (or not too far) from a place where uranium was mined, there's a good chance you may have a radon gas problem. There are other non-mining areas where radon gas naturally comes up through the ground and may well be concentrated in your house *IF* your house is built on a slab. If your house is built on a pillar and post type foundation, the crawl space and venting for the crawl space will almost always carry away any radon accumulation before it can reach your house. And just to be clear, not ALL slab foundations will act as conduits for passing radon gas into your home. It depends on the building codes that were in effect when your house was built. Usually a good moisture barrier that runs fully under the entire slab will prevent a problem, but it's still worth checking out with testing after the house is built.
VERY VERY few granites emit enough radon gas to be a small scale problem. The colors in granites that most commonly do are almost always in the red, pink and purple tones. *IF* you've fallen in love with a slab of granite that has those colors in it, ask your granite supplier if you can pay to have an radon test run on your slab before it is cut to your specs. If you can't find a company in your area to do the radon testing, ask your granite supplier to seal some large plastic painter's drop clothes around your slab (with a good amount of air on the inside) and put one of those mail-order radon test sample collectors in the bag for the required length of time, then don't cut the slab or commit before you get the results back. Or... Chose another color.
True granite is an excellent choice for countertops. I have it in my kitchen and love it.
re: UtahMom54
You might wish to try aquaseal - they have a nano cleaner that might well finally take out that red stain, since it's designed to remove stains from stone. We use their enhancers and sealers, which are excellent so if there is one company that would make a cleaner to help you I'd give them a shot. See if you can't get a sample amount from a local dealer.
Corian, I guess you have already experience, some scratches, hot pots is a no no... Engineered Stone (quartz base) more resistant to scratch, but don't put the pot directly on it. Granite is scratch resistant and you may put hot pots on it without damaging it. Although it can be porous, so a little maintenance will help.
In truth, you have to find the product that suites best, either by it's durability or colour (to fit in to your design) ...
For more information on engineered stone, I have blogged about it granitequartz.blogspot.com -
I read this entire thread and want to thank all of you. I am currently choosing countertop. I cook constantly, am paranoid about bacteria and I do not always do my dishes on time. I also checked Consumer Reports and can tell all of you that Quartz composite was rated the highest. I am going with Silestone. Glass tile back splash too, though I have a suspicious feeling that I am going to have to be polishing it constantly!
re: syoder
From what I have personally gathered after reading lots of comments on this issue here & elsewhere on the internet, it does seem to be true that the majority of people who are happy with their Corian counters are those who have white or light-colored counters. (I have corian in arctic white - the counters are about 11 years old and I'm still happy with them.)
People with dark colors of corian complain that scratches show up as light marks against a dark background, making them much more noticeable than on a white or light color, and therefore making the counters look dingy, etc.
I thought I read somewhere that the manufacturers of Corian had taken steps to address this issue - but I could be wrong. It might be worth investigating.
re: flourgirl
We put a light colored Corian in the kitchen, and also in a bathroom (not the same color); black Silestone in another bathroom, and medium blue Silestone in a third bathroom. Although I love the bathroom Corian (it was one of the Venaro colors which were later discontinued) it gets very gentle usage ... nothing done in there that can possibly scratch it... and so it looks pristine after almost 9 years of daily use.
The kitchen Corian, well, we hate it. Can't recall the color name but it's beige and tan flecks on a cream background. It scratches like crazy and if you try to make them less noticeable by the method recommended, that area is noticeably DULLER than the surrounding surface, especially under strong light (either artificial or natural from a large window) and even under moderate light at certain angles.
Our next kitchen will have quartz, either Silestone or Cambria depending on what colors are available/what cabinetry we choose. Our bathroom Silestone 'Stellar Night' which is silver flecks on a jet-black background (in the other bathroom which gets lots of use including things that can scratch!) looks as new as the day it was installed: smooth, shiny, no scratches, no dulled areas. Ditto for the blue bathroom Silestone (Stellar Sky) which IMHO is drop dead gorgeous (which is probably why they don't make that color anymore either....).
I like granite as long as it's in someone else's house rather than mine. Yes it looks nice but I am maintenance-lazy and not afraid to admit it. I want something that I can wipe down with Windex or a vinegar-based spray cleaner and have it look brand new, and don't have to fuss with sealing, etc. Our black-and-white bathroom has Absolute Black granite 12" floor tiles and it's just like a black car --- it only looks good for the first 10 minutes after it's been cleaned!
We never put a hot pot on any kitchen counter so that's not a factor for us. That's what cork hotpads were invented for, LOL
Quick p.s. re: stainless steel sinks: I too would never have anything but. I hated every enameled sink I ever owned (also hate sinks with lips, which is the only reason I'd never again have laminate ... which would go perfectly in the retro kitchen I'm going to put in the next house but oh well). We chose the biggest single undermount stainless sink Franke makes and they BETTER NOT discontinue it before the next kitchen job, because I want the same thing again, LOL!
re: skyline
I have lived in a house with granite kitchen counters and one granite bathroom counter for 11 years. We sealed it once, and then just kept it clean with vinegar or windex and the occasional Clorox wipe. It's still shiny and beautiful, with no stains or cracks and I spill tomato sauce and red wine and put hot pots on it all the time.
I would recommend it to anyone. It is well worth the price
re: skyline
We just put Cambria counters in the kitchen. We LOVE it. love it.
And I hear you on the Corian, which the Cambria replaced. it was dull and worn after 6 years, and I had to wait another 10 to get rid of it. Plus, I hated the constant fear of a hot pot ruining it, despite glass protective sheets...Quartz rules. Windex all-purpose makes it gleam. I absently put a hot skillet down on it the other night, and...no problemo, boss. !
And I am so loving the stainless steel sinks. and the no-lip. Did you just remodel our kitchen? :)
re: nikkihwood
The kitchen was done about 9 years ago when we bought this house. Everything (meaning the ENTIRE house, LOL!) was original from 1962, so I'm sure you can imagine.......
The saving grace was that the structural layout was perfect, so there was no need to relocate anything as far as wiring or plumbing runs. They even had a freestanding range in the "L" countertop where my cooktop is now, plus a wall oven (prior owners did a lot of entertaining). Also lots of space (working area is 13x15, including 22 ft of countertop$$$) and the thing that has spoiled me forevermore which is a 6x15 walk-in pantry room. The pantry was already there; I remember when we first looked at the house I opened the door figuring it was a utility closet and immediately thought I'd died and gone to Kitchen Heaven, LOL! So all I did was repaint it white, from the original Pepto Bismol pink, and started stockin' up all those shelves. :-)
re: skyline
Yikes! That was a huge job.
And I am so envious of your pantry. how wonderful!
This tract is not big on kitchen counters, unless you have an island. we don't , so now i also have counter envy. but we make do. Congratulations on what sounds like an enormous job completed successfully.
re: syoder
Syoder, I think you are correct! I have "Glazier White" Corian and feel it is timeless and near bulletproof. All the dealers will try to up sell you or talk you into the look a likes/imitation things saying they're considerably less expensive. I won't let them, because I know how "low maintenance" and pretty the "Corian Glacier White" is and you can see things on the countertop--they don't get lost on it. My cabinets are medium dark cherry wood and that's a classic look. My walls are white too. Floor tile is 12 inch square gray and white marble look with narrow smooth grout joint. Next to zip maintenance on all and still loving it after 10+ yearst!
Something I actually know about as this is what I do for a living!!! If you are not ready to get rid of the Corian quite yet, consider having it resanded to take the scratches out. Since the color / pattern run all the way through, you can bring it back to its original beauty. And remember, never cut on it!! As far as granite vs. quartz. Granite is a porous surface and you will need to seal it 2 -3 times a year for the life of the stone, (more depending on how much you cook and bake). A sealer is also only a deterrent, so you will need to wipe everything, (including water) up immediately to keep it from staining. Any type of oil is bad as it seeps into the pores quickly. Quartz is a non-porous surface that actually starts out as granite and is ground up and added with resins to keep it from being non-pourous. It is made to be used on a daily basis and those who seriously use their kitchens love it!! It is beautiful, cleans up with soap and water, no sealing required. Neither granite nor quartz should be used as a cutting board, and neither should have hot items put directly on them. Although they can handle some heat, you have a 50 / 50 chance of cracking them with high heat. Quartz comes with a manufacturer warranty. Me personally, because I do this for a living and cleaning is definately not my forte, I am for quartz all the way. 97% of all the kitchen countertops I do for customers is in quartz. Too many people see granite on TV and assume that is what they want. Ask questions, especially about sealing and cleaning. If you are meticulous and dont' mind cleaning granite may be fine for you. But if you want to cook or bake and not worry, definately quartz. Oh, and the children factor, definately quartz. We had to replace a brand new granite $ 7K countertop when the 4 year old spilled grape juice on the white granite tops. Definately sad.
re: monarchssdesigns
We are doing a new build and I too am struggling with countertop choices. To those on the thread that install for a living-
1. How can you tell if the granite is a "top quality" granite? We are currently looking for an installer and are extremely frustrated with the bids we are getting. The bids are per sq ft MUCH higher than I can do this at home depot or lowes- not that this is where I would do it- but jimmy cricket my contractor can't get me a better price than Lowes"??? I want to know what the GRANITE costs and what it costs to install. Is that unreasonable? One of the granite yards did tell me what the stone costs, but the rest of them -it's like a pentagon secret. we have 3 granite yards in the area the bids are consistent in pricing with each of the yards material so I would assume their product is comparable?? I have been told by all the granite yards that the coding a,b,c,d are price coding only- granite is granite so builder grade is same quality as the C or D pricing code. True? ie, is Vyarra vyarra no matter which dealer you use?
2. Any experience with granite sinks? I have been told by dealers that they are pretty indestructable, but then again, they are trying to sell me something. I hate stainless and am looking for alternative.
Our biggest obstacle right now is the budget- contractor did a POOR job of estimating the cost of these countertops- our original plan was to do quartz and he jacked up the estimate by 2K to accomodate- we are finding we can barely buy builder grade granite and there is very little in the A category we would be interested in using.
I am looking at Corain but my husband probably would rather go over budget.
Any feedback is appreciated.-
re: lrobertsrnccm
I am not a contractor, nor am I an expert re counter materials...but I have lived with Corian and Silestone quartz counters for many, many years. Corian is a wonderful surface for baths. It is easily cleaned, surface scratches are easily removed (it is a soft material, and color pattern is same throughout), and it is very attractive. We have Corian countertops and molded Corian sinks in our baths, and we love them. I would not dream of putting Corian in my kitchen!! It is soft, scratches easily and hot pots or pans will scorch it, and it can be stained by foods (although because it is so soft, these can be buffed out). Silestone (or other manufactured quartz) or granite, are very hard surfaces, they are resistant to heat and staining, and at least in my opinion (and admittedly non-professional and limited experience) are far more suitable surfaces for kitchens where some degree of abuse (regardless of how careful you are) are the norm. We chose quartz over granite for two reasons...we prefer the uniform look of quartz (some prefer the natural look of granite), the relative invisibility of seams due to the uniform appearance, and also, the fact that quartz requires no care. Granite requires minimal care (treating with a sealant, once or twice a year).
re: josephnl
Just a comment, two yeras ago we used a quartz rich rock that my husband imported from south america for our guest house floors and countertops. I've never seen such colors before or after and to this date we've spilled everything, placed hot pots on the countertops, filled the floors with dirt and chlorine from the swimming pool; and still looks like the first day it was installed. I've never seen it in the stone outlets in our area, nor in magazines or the internet, and it is natural stone, not man made.
re: josephnl
For Joseph and the Corian people here, I have "Glacier White" Corian in the kitchen of our basement accessory apartmen. Best thing I ever did in a rental. We've rented the apartment for about 1 year each time to 10 different renters now, and have only had to buff out scratches once from fork marks done by the tenants child. The Corian looks like "almost new" right now. I have dark cherry cabinets and the contrast is classic elegance. I put in a full height Corian backsplash and ran the Corian into the window sil too. Total maintenance free and super easy cleanup! Am currently redoing my tile countertops upstairs and was really wanting marble, so I did some abuse to a 6" sample tile of "Bianco Cararra" marble. I sliced a banana on it (no scratching). I put ketchup, mustard, vinegar, raspberry jam on it. Everything etched, although I could minimize the etching by using "Bar Keepers Friend" powder on it and rubbing a little, but worked only if I did it immediately. Acidic food left on a long time etching still stayed after polishing. I put all the same stuff on the white Corian and left for hours. Came back and wiped up--no stains. I have some very faint scratches on the Corian rental kitchen, but nothing serious. My tenants over the years have been pretty abusive to the apartment--tons of scratches in the stainless steel sink, but the Corian has survived the abuse very well. Maybe it's the "Glacier White" color--still not tired of the look either after 10 years. I don't like the patterned Corian, as I think it has an imitation cheap look. "Glazier White" is the cheapest Corian color too! I am STRONGLY considering putting it in the upstairs kitchen now too! The installer put in 1/4" thick Corian on the backsplash, which looks very nice and doesn't take out a lot of the countertop space too. No issues with Corian! One tenant left a bright reddish pink stain behind that I couldn't seem to get out with regular cleaners, I ended up using using denatured alcohol on it. Stain came out and no damage to the Corian. It's fabulous and warm to the touch when the weather is cold. I think other countertops surfaces are nice too--just had to defend Corian, because I've had a great experience with it!
re: josephnl
P.S. Regarding the Corian maintenance, I did ask each tenant to not put hot pots directly on it and not cut on the countertop. I assume most didn't cut on the countertops from the way the Corian cutting board looked. At any rate, taking out the fork marks on the island, and some other minor scratches on the countertops, buffing them to look like new and buffing the cutting board to new looking condition too only cost me a service call, which as I recall was around $150--not bad maintenance costs for 10+ years and to get new looking countertops.
re: lrobertsrnccm
I HATE and abhor stainless sinks, as well.... they are SO cold feeling! (as well as porcelain, as they can chip, crack and they DO scratch!) I just recently bought a Blanco sink, in Espresso, or Coffee or something close to that. I adore it!! It has worn very well over the almost year we've had it, and they come in a variety of colors, including an almost black. Mine is the coffee brown.
I have Brushed Bronze fixtures with it, and it is stunning. Please check out Blanco sinks.... They are beautiful and not too expensive, IMHO. (I think I used Faucet Direct, and they have the best prices out there!)
re: lrobertsrnccm
lrobertsrnccm, I think I am a walking encyclopedia on all the different countertop materials now. I've researched this to death. It is really important to find an experienced fabricator with natural stone and any other countertop surface for that matter. Lowe's and Home Depot make a 17% - 21% markup, so you can usu. find Corian and natural stone, for less money than they will sell it to you by finding a local countertop installer/dealer. The big box stores and many other stores like them are the middle man and will get their cut. If you will get 3 bids once you decide what you want, you will see that you can get an experienced fabricator and still get a very good price. I only have experience with cast iron and stainless sinks. I hate my white cast iron sink--have to scrub it daily with Comet--though it is seemingly indestructible still after 17 years of use, with only a few nicks from pots. If you go stainless, my experienced fabricator of 30 year said it is very important to make sure has a high nickel and chrome content and that is even more important than the gauge. I like Elkay--deep sinks. I have one in my laundry room that has been in since 1994 and it still looks great--very few scratches and it's used a lot. I put an Elkay SS sink in my basement apartment too; and with 10 years of various tenants, it is pretty scratched up but doesn't have any dents. Both were top quality and heavy gauge sinks. I will do it again and plan to use clear rubber mats or wire racks in them in my upstairs kitchen to prevent scratches in my remodel that I am embarking on currently. I don't know much about the granite sinks--stone yards sell them and like them. I would be concerned about the staining and porosity.
For all of those having issues with so called staining on soapstone countertops...sand them! This takes the soapstone back too its original state as it removes the surface oils and scratches that have occured. Its like refinishing a wood floor but much easier. A random orbit sander from home depot and some 80 grit sand paper.
Good luck email if you have any questions firstname.lastname@example.com -
I had Silestone installed 4 years ago. Wish I would have gone with Granite because we now have a 24" crack coming off the very sharp corner cutout for the stovetop. Silestone says it isn't a manufacturing defect and not there problem. The big orange lumber superstore that installed it and has only a ONE year (read the fine print on the contract) installation warranty says it isn't an installation issue. SIlestone blames it on thermal shock or house slab settling. BULL!! The crack has gone ACROSS a cemented joint into another section of Silestone, The crack started in a sharp corner cutout of the cooktops smallest burner. This burner is also used the least. The other three corners are fine but all four corners were cut in with very sharp corners. In my opinion, this crack is due to the sharp corners of the cutout instead of the installer radiusing the corners. Also, the countertop is staining/fading near the faucet area. Has anyone out there experienced a crack coming off a cooktop corner? I'm not giving up. Someone is going to replace this thing!
re: counterissues01
I can't help with your specific problem but maybe it would help to point out to the Orange people that stress fractures at sharp corners of brittle materials has been a known engineering problem for at least three millennia and really came to public attention during WWII when a bunch of Liberty Ships, constructed with square port holes and hatches, cracked in half:
re: Chuckles the Clone
Cooktop cutouts should always have radiused inside corners. A rounded inside corner is much less likely to crack than a square inside corner. When countertops crack, that is one of the most frequest places for a crack to begin. All well-trained countertop installers know this.
re: counterissues01
Unfortunately going with granite would not have made a difference as quartz is actually 10 times stronger then granite. There are many factors that could have contributed to the crack including shifting in the house which as a countertop shop we have encountered. a radius corner versus a sharp corner does not make a difference and most times a cooktop cannot be dropped into a radiused corner as it will not fit.
re: counterissues01
I have never worked with silestone but I have worked with other types of quartz products. Recently we got a memo from them telling us NOT to do sharp corners because it could crack into the corner. They also said they would not cover this under the warranty if we chose to do it or the customer insisted on it.
I would say it was probably not your house settling as this seems to be a known issue with the product. -
re: counterissues01
I don't know about Silestone, but I've had my Cambria quartz counter tops for about 18 months, and I love them. I have lots of counter space, with lots of different angles: no cracks, no stains. (I'd be very concerned if my quartz counter tops stained -- the stuff is supposed to be non-porous and impervious to stains of all sorts.)
We are redoing our 60's kitchen and have decided to go with Silestone. After getting a price on the installation we paid a visit to a local re-cycled building materials shop and found three pieces of the same color -- one that we love. I've figured out that there's enough material to do our counter (a "C" with sides 8'x14'x4') but there would be 5 seams! What are the dangers/problems in installing a counter this size with so many seams?? Is it worth the money we'll save? Any advice greatly appreciated.
re: addiley
Consider a full counter depth sink. Here is one example...
This could eliminate one or two seams. The same could be done with a range.
re: addiley
We have Silestone in our kitchen which was professionally installed about 2 years ago. We love it. There is one seam in the countertop (which is a very dark color), and it is essentially invisible...you have to look very closely to see it. Therefore, I think that if your recycled Silestone is installed by a real pro, and is relatively dark in color, from a cosmetic point, it should be fine.
re: josephnl
This post started in 2006, and I was fascinated as I read through the postings. We just finished building in July using Corian countertops throughout the house. Since the original posting, color selections have changed greatly. However, I am not sure if the quality has changed, but then I have always been satisfied with the Corian quality. A year ago I toured a cabinet factory and was able to see how they made the Corian countertops. That is where I learned that you could "repair" Corian by sanding it. That pretty much cemented my choice.
We used Sahara in the kitchen and went with stainless steel sinks. We felt that the stainless would fare better in the kitchen. Two of the bathrooms are Granola and the rest are Savannah. All of the bathrooms have the integrated sink because we love the seamless look.
I cringed when I would see marks or grime in the sinks from the construction crew, but did not panic. When everyone was finished, I got to work on cleaning everything with Soft Soap, and then drying the countertops when I was finished. They are beautiful. We could not be more satisfied.
I guess it boils down to personal preference with everyone. Hope you all enjoy your choices as much as we are enjoying ours.-
re: seeahrah
You have pointed out one of the wonderful advantages of Corian. It is a soft material which is easlly repolished removing any and all surface staining. We have it in our baths and love it. The seamless sinks look wonderful and are a snap to clean.
For our kitchen, we chose Silestone countertops and porcelain sinks, both of which we love. As mentioned earlier, unless Silestone is grossly abused, it seems pretty indestructible...or course we do not put sizzling pans on it, and use cutting boards to chop on...and after three years it looks perfect. We have always had white porcelain sinks (and our house is very contemporary!), and they look great, and are easily cleaned with anything from Comet to BarKeeper's Friend (our favorite). Porcelain is also pretty indestructible!
re: Paulustrious
All of our dinnerware is French porcelain which is incredibly strong and resistant to chipping. We have a combination of Apilco, Pillivuyt, and Revol while French porcelain dinnerware. All are bright white and match perfectly. They go from freezer, to microwave, to oven, to dishwasher with never a chip. To me, food looks best on simple white dishes, which is why we have these. We personally do not own, nor do we miss fine delicate china, so we don't have a problem with our porcelain sink which we love.
re: addiley
Remember... although manufacturers produce the same colors, colors are produced in "lots" with slabs usually coming in slabs of 50. These 50 slabs are guarenteed to match in color. The next 50 slabs will usually be a bit off in color, the next 50 a bit off even more. The color is still the same "name" but the "hue" definately varies. I would never go with something with more then 2 or 3 seams at the most, and would always ensure I was getting matching slabs. Because you definately will notice a difference.
We went with silestone two years ago and love it. It was recommended by our certified kitchen designer for two reasons...absolutely no maintenance (doesn't require sealing...ever) and uniformity of surface appearance which makes seams essentially invisible. We like the later feature...but many might prefer the natural lack of uniformity that is characteristic of high grade granite, and can be quite beautiful.
I've been in the countertop business for 25 years, and have specialized in repairing and modifying countertiops for 15 years through my business, TopRepair. Therefore, I see lots of countertops long after they have been installed.
My answer to the original question is that there is no clearly superior choice. Every type of countertop material has advantages and disadvantages, and informed personal preference is the basis for making a good choice. Because engineered stone and solid surface (Corian) are man made products, you can generalize about their performance, but no such generalizations are possible about granite.
What's sold as granite are actually thousands of different types of stone that fall into dozens of geologic categories. Some "granite", especially true geologic granite, makes a superb kitchen countertop, while others may be gorgeous visually when new but perform poorly in the long run. You can't generalize about the need to apply sealers, or the resistance of the stones to oil staining or acid damage (lemon juice or wine). Some tout granite as 'natural" but many granite slabs are impregnated with chemical sealers, are reinforced on the underside by synthetic meshes, and in some cases are treated with dyes and color enhancers. Enormous quantities of poor quality "granite" is flooding the U.S, market - educate yourself, deal with reputable, established suppliers and remember that you get what you pay for. Stone quarries in third world countries are ugly and dangerous places - be a socially responsible buyer.
Every type of countertop has environmental consequences - even the "green" ones. If you care about the environment, educate yourself. Yes, many countertops use petrochemicals, but they constitute a durable product that can last for decades, instead of being burned up as gasoline.
There is lots of good information on this thread, but lots of incorrect information also. For example, Corian does NOT melt or burn, but excessive heat can cause discoloration or cracking. All three types of countertops can crack, and these cracks can be repaired. My company repairs cracks in solid surface, granite and engineered stone countertops all the time.
Take good care of your countertops. It is foolish to put very hot pots on ANY type of countertop. Use cutting boards and trivets, and follow the care and maintenance instructions provided by the dealers.
I have Corian in my own home, and want to point out that solid surface countertops offer the possibility of coved sanitary backsplashes and integral sinks. It may be trendy to attack Corian, but I don't know why. It is a very good product. But then again, engineered stone and top quality granite from a reputable supplier are great choices as well.
re: TopRepair
TopRepair - you have posted a lot of useful information and seem very knowledgeable on most of the issues. I am remodeling my kitchen; have ordered the cabinets and have selected my countertops (maybe). I am going with Silestone, color Mountain Mist, It comes in 2cm with 4cm backsplash. I don't have to commit until the cabinets are installed so I am looking at other suppliers/fabricators. I am putting in a topmount granite composite sink (color espresso) with oil rubbed bronze faucet and do not have any large overhangs. Your thoughts on 2cm vs 3cm countertop? Do I need a 3/4" plywood deck between the top of the casework and the countertop?
re: hodgemrm
My personal preference with granite or quartz is to install a single slab rather than having the edges laminated for increased thickness. However, well done laminated edges can look fine. The support structure depends on lots of variables - trust a quality installer to make the proper choices. If you can't trust them, you shouldn't be doing business with them.
re: TopRepair
The only trouble with that is the weight of the slab. An 8' x 3' x 1.5" slab clocks in at over 500 lbs and would take some serious manouevering.
Decent laminated edges need the lamination strips cut parallel with and close to the edges if the granite has a distinct design. (as opposed to a 'repetitive pattern'). Not all fabricators do this as a matter of course.
(I'm just saying this so others will know)
re: hodgemrm
Thank you for the compliments. I have a website that has lots of information about countertop problems. It is www.TopRepair.com. I will be happy to answer questions from anyone - just use the online form. The more detailed your question, the more detailed my response will be.
re: TopRepair
TopRepair, I'm having a dickens of a time locating a Corian dealer/installer in Baytown, TX. We have both Lowe's and Home Depot, but would like an estimate from an independent. DuPont site isn't helpful. Any suggestions as to where I can find one? I'm going with Corian as the risk of radon/radiation is an issue with my family. Thanks. L.
re: lclark
I think that the most important thing is to do business with a reputable, established fabricator/installer. I'm not familiar with Baytown, but call the upscale kitchen dealers in the closest metro area, and ask for referrals to good countertop companies. ANother posibility is a trade group called International Surface Fabricators Association (ISFA). Google them - they have a member directory.
re: TopRepair
This thread, especially with your comments, has been tremendous help with deciding on new counter tops. I've decided to go with Corian, with the stainless steel sink. I've called around for quotes, and being something of a penny pincher, I'm tempted to go with a company offering a similar product called 'Solid Ace', at a lower square foot. Have you ever heard of it? Is it the same basic product, with fewer colors, or should I go with a reputable and tested product?
re: The Cats Other Mother
If your choice is Corian, I would definitely go with the branded product. Corian has been on the market for decades; it is a DuPont product and it has a solid warranty and history; any other "similar" product is a gamble. Especially for someone who is concerned about value, I would not take a chance on an unknown replica. Are you sure you want a stainless steel sink? Although extremely durable, stainless always looks spotted unless cleaned properly after every time the faucet is turned on. I have had stainless, and would never again....but I am a stickler for everything looking clean and tidy! For me, a porcelain sink is the only way to go...easily cleaned with whatever cleanser you want...Comet, BarKeepersFriend, BonAmi...nothing will hurt it!.
re: josephnl
I'm getting the choice of stainless or Corian for free from the installer. I have stainless now, and I don't hate it. I love the way the integrated Corian sink looks, but I'm kind of rough on sinks, sometimes putting hot pots in or leaving dirty dishes overnight, etc. I don't want something that can't take some abuse.
re: The Cats Other Mother
Corian sinks can NOT take abuse. You have to run cold water in them when draining pasta, for example. Corian is probably the countertop material most prone to thermal shock cracking. A hot pot in it is a recipe for disaster. Its biggest selling point is the seamless integration with the countertop, which is definitely easy to clean. But that's not worth the trade-off, in my opinion. (I lived in a house with Corian for years. Not my thing.)
Judging by your criteria, I'd say go stainless.
re: dmd_kc
Agree totally. The seamless Corian look is great...we have it in our bathrooms, and love it. But for a kitchen sink, I would definitely choose stainless over Corian....but for me, it's tough to beat a high quality old-fashioned porcelain sink. It always looks good, is easy to clean, and is not easily damaged.
re: The Cats Other Mother
All of the sink types have their advantage and disadvantages. I see many Corian kitchen sinks that are over 20 years old and look like new, and homeowners love them. Nothing can be more sanitary than the transition from a Corian top into a Corian sink. On the other hand, they can crack if abused and exposed to excessive heat. Porcelain sinks can chip, showing black cast iron, if smacked with a heavy pot. Stainless steel sinks can get beat up and dented, but are probably best for careless use. Get a high-quality sink made of heavy gauge steel. I have a Corian sink in my laundry room, and a stainless steel sink in my kitchen. I prefer the Corian, but my wife loves the stainless steel. I like it a lot too, because it is a really good sink, and it's my wife's choice. She's almost always right.
re: The Cats Other Mother
I agree with josephnl. Corian is a reputable brand, and there are some other big companies that offer good competitive brands of solid surface materials. I would stay away from smaller "fly-by-night" brands that claim that they are just as good as Corian. When buying a product that has a ten year warranty, best to do business with a company like DuPont that's over 200 years old and will stand by the warranty.
re: TopRepair
I've been reading all these posts and thank you to everyone's inputs. They've all been very informative. We've just bought a new house and are now picking and choosing the details to finish our home. Our builder is offering Okite as an alternative to granite. Have any of you ever heard of them? If so, what is your opinion about Okite?
Well, it's May 2009 and I'm just returning to this thread . . . I ended up getting Caesarstone for my kitchen because I decided that it had the best combination of factors -- easy to care for, hard to stain, heat resistant, not too "trendy", good quality. The Caesarstone was the same price as Corian and a little less expensive than granite. I decided not to do Corian not because of anything on this thread, but just because I wanted to give the Caesarstone a try and I knew this kitchen was only going to be a short term situation for us. And, in fact, that's true - we'll be moving out later this year as we are renovating another space and will be moving into that place and renting out our current house.
I would definitely recommend Caesarstone to anyone considering it. The range of colors is very nice, and we chose one that looks very natural looking. The seams are invisible and we've had zero problems with stains; however, although we are heavy duty cooks, we are constantly wiping the counters as we go so nothing stays on there very long.
I don't have anything against granite - it's just not my style and I don't want to have to worry about caring for it, and since my current kitchen will end up being a rental unit for us, I don't want to have to worry about tenants not caring for it.
Regarding Corian - I will definitely consider it in the new kitchen we're renovating this year, to see what new patterns are out there. I am not afraid of the heat issue, since I'm good about using trivets. My main concern about heat with our current kitchen was the fact that we will be moving out and renting to a tenant, and I don't want to have to worry about damage. The same thing will be true with the kitchen we'll be renovating this year - we'll live in it for a year or two, then move on and rent it out. So durability is a big factor for us for that reason, plus performance for ourselves during the 1 - 2 year period that we will live there.
Thanks to all of you who took (are taking) part in this thread. It's been incredibly valuable to read all the replies.
Corian is best. It is repairable and has the best choice of colors and textures. Really good looking granite is very very expensive. And, granite is anything but forever - once chipped - it's an eyesore forever. Same with stains. Most granite countertops I've seen have two big drawbacks. One, the color and pattern are often corny looking, distracting, or hard to match stuff to. People get what they can and what they can afford - just as long as its granite. It's become the 21st century status symbol, like the old 1959 cars with big fins. Secondly, joints. I've seen too many granite tops with joints that stick out like a sore thumb. No matter what you look at, your eye just wanders over to the ugly joint. Granite is way overrated. None of the tops discussed except stainless steel can tolerate a hot pan on it. Just get a good sized wooden chopping board and keep it handy. Then you can spend the rest of the deliberation concentrating on appearance.
re: chowter
Hot pans don't bother granite with a decent sealant. And once it is properly sealed it will not stain. Granite does have one advantage if you wish to go with a dramatic slab. Corian (and most Granites) have small 'patterns'.
I have to agree about the joints. If done badly they draw the eye. They are also a point of weakness. Corian is stronger than Granite, but normally more expensive - especially if you hunt around.
re: hollerhither
In Toronto we can get pre-finished bull-nosed 8 x 2 foot slabs with 4 inch back splashes in granite from $300 CAN. (ie $20 per square foot = $17 US) For example:
Note: I have used this company's granite in Kitchens I have built but am not otherwise affiliated with them.
The compressed quartz is a more expensive option unless you go for certain dramatic forms of granite. Pure quartz counters are even more expensive but they are so easy to break when installing.
re: hollerhither
If the comparison is made with mass produced granite countertop "blanks", often made with poor quality stone and imported in bulk from third world countries, then the granite will be cheaper. Top quality granite installed by a reputable firm will be more expensive than Corian.
Granite and quartz are expensive, but perfect options for kitchen countertops. They possess highly desirable qualities, and can be used anywhere in your kitchen; round the sink, round the range, for a food preparation area... They are durable, visually appealing, scratch-resistant and heat-resistant. Quartz is also stain-resistant and waterproof.
One disadvantage of granite is that it absorbs liquids and you will need to maintain it regularly. However, I do not consider this as a problem.
Here are links that might be useful:
- http://www.helpful-kitchen-tips.com/kitchen-blog/2009/01/23/granite-countertops-pricing-buying-tips-installing-maintaining/
- http://www.helpful-kitchen-tips.com/k...-
re: Ganka
Granite is highly porous and will readily absorb stains. The high quality sealants (typically $120-150/gallon) are the way to go. The are absorbed by the stone and bond to it at the molecular level forming an impervious layer. They are also heat resistant. These sealants tend to have 25 year guarantees. You should not need to reseal it for another 10 years - and it is simplicity to do it. If possible use the same sealant as before (or at least has the same VOCs) These sealant are not on the surface and do not burn or wear out. You can take things out of the oven at 500 degrees and pop them straight down on the granite.
Also most Granite is harder than steel. At 6 to 7 on the mohs scale you can use granite to scratch steel but not vice versa. An ordinary knife (ie non-ceramic) will not mark it. You can use it as a cutting board but It will blunt your knives very quickly. I do not know how hard ceramic knives are or some of newer very hard steels.
Granite's major problem is that is is not very tough and will fracture easily. This means it needs to be bonded to a substrate, typically 3/4 inch plywood. This limits the length of overhangs and can cause weak spot - especially round sinks or counter top ranges. Ensure your fabricator will add stiffening to the Granite in narrow areas. This is done in the form of embedded metal strips that epoxied in place. Also beware of undermount sinks. It is very easy to chip granite, and a cast iron pan can easily take a chunk out of the edge. This is not a catastrophe as the edge can be re-ground.
And finally seriously consider separating the jobs of supplier and fabricator. Here in Toronto I can go to an area called Concord where there are numerous slab suppliers. The last one I was in had maybe 5000 slabs and you can wander round looking for the one that suits you. The fabricator can tell you how many slabs of what sizes will be needed to meet your requirements.
If you go for a dramatic pattern ensure that the fabricater cuts the counter bullnose from the stone next to counter so when it is glued at the edge you have a reasonable pattern match.
If you have seriously wonky walls or want an unusual shape use a fabricator that has a water jet cutter and a digital templater. Here is a link as example.
Note: I am not affiliated with that company but have used them to fabricate counters for both me and my customers.
re: Paulustrious
(I hope thisi reply goes in the right place, under Paulustrious' comment).
Can you tell me more about the "regrounding" that you mention? I have black honed granite (or at least I think it is granite; that is what it was sold to me as) that has chipped when something fell on it. The chip is small, just near the faucet. Thanks!
We have silestone (in a rental unit!) and we love it. We've had it for 4 years now. It's in great shape and handles a LOT of use without wear and tear. I use it for pastry, pasta, etc.
Everyone I know with solid stone countertops has issues with chipping, staining, etc. I would NOT go with soapstone- Mr. Sfumato's mom has it in her new kitchen, and while it's gorgeous, it stains, the edges chip, it scratches anything you put on it, and oiling it is a royal pain. They're not worried about looks- the kitchen is there to be used, of course, but it's still not fun. It was super expensive and it's lovely, but it's a serious PITA in a real working kitchen.
I was wonderin if you would mind if my son uses your question about the countertop in his science fair project . His project was testing which counter top was the most heat resistant between Formica lamiate , Corian ,Sile Stone , and Granite . So your blog ties in under the research section of his project. I didn't want to print it off without asking you permisson to use it . It would be greatly appreciated if we were able to. By the way the results were Granite was the most heat resistant .With Corian catching fire @465 degrees and Granite just being scorched at 660 degrees.To give you an idea how hot an electric burner gets is 836 degrees on high. Granite is also repairable if it gets scorched although its expensive. Thanks, Kathy
Just a plug for my countertop material of choice. When we re-did our kitchen a year ago I went through this same debate. As very lazy and indifferent housekeepers I needed something that was basically bulletproof. If I accidentally set a hot pot on it, if we spilled liquid and didn't notice, if--gasp--we even resorted to cutting directly on the surface the surface had to be able to withstand it.
We ended up with granite--Cambrian black in an antique finish. This Canadian granite is highly dense, so it doesn't need sealing, and the somewhat mottled appearance means that stray crumbs, cat fur, etc. are masked pretty well. The antique finish is also perfect. Honed surfaces are notorious for being easy to stain while a polished surface would mean streaks and fingerprints would show more easily. The sorta matte, waxy-surface of the antique finish was the perfect compromise.
For a somewhat more soapstone-like look, Nordic black antique is also a good choice.
I went through this debate last year. I am not someone who will ever remember to seal any thing, drops red wine and spaghetti sauce all over the place. So, after a friend had a problem with her granite staining..my mind was set on silestone. Yes, it is more expensive than granite but it is wonderful! The seams are almost invisible. It is always shiny and it looks just as great now as the day it was installed. Another advantage is that there is an antibacterial component to silestone...as a RN...again a plus. I love it and would buy it again in a heart beat!
re: krusingkatie
KrusingKatie, That antibacterial component is a chemical (most likely Microban aka Triclosan). It is not a RN. It won't prevent you from getting sick. It just keeps anything from growing in your silestone. Pretty sure I don't like the idea of chemicals in food surfaces. I read about it here:
From the link...
"Considering the things we know about Triclosan (Lab studies link triclosan to cancer, developmental defects, and liver and inhalation toxicity), there may be cause for concern. Triclosan is a possible hormone disruptor and is basically a pesticide which should be avoided when possible as well."Sounds like this is one of the reasons you don't have to seal it! Think about it...it's crushed quartz (natural stone) .
Just the other day I was watching an HGTV show called "My House is Worth What?" where real estate agents do home appraisals and make suggestions to home owners as to what they can do to increase the value of their homes.
I almost fell off the sofa when the agent suggested that the homeowners take out the granite counter tops. He said home buyers are now looking for quartz and solid surface counter tops.
BTW, the home in LA appraised at 1.1 million.
If you are looking at Solid surface, Granite, and Quartz you are looking to the upper-end of the market. I would recommend if you are going this route to greatly consider quartz tops. The two best companies are probably Cambria, made in the US (about $85 per sq ft.) or Silestone made in Spain (btwn $75-$90..depending on color). Reasoning: Quartz ranks a 7 out of 10 on the Moh's scale of hardness. In the old days (and still today..but changing) people look to granite for a strong stone..it was known for its hardness over marble and so on because of the quartz in the granite (about 40-65%)..but has felspar, mica, and other soft minerals...so you have to seal it. (and still have pits) Being in the 21st century we make everything better, someone found that you can actually mine just the quartz...tests have shown quarts tops to have twice the flectural strength as granite. You won't have to seal it ever and the fabrication and seaming are better...not anyone with a saw and water can cut a quartz slab like a granite slab. When it comes to the "naturalness" of granite take into consideration of the sealers and products you have to pour into the granite...not to natural if you were to ask me. Quartz products are typically 93-94% clear quartz. Pigments and bonding agents comprise the rest...the process can be found on different news stations (Frank Vasilaro did something on Cambria). With any stone a person has to worry about putting hot pots on them...not only with granite, but also quartz. (and that goes with Corian melting) Corian is a plastic polymer..sratches easily and is dull. If you've got the money go with quartz..if you go with quartz you might as well get the best, Cambria...I did.
re: GoWithQuartz
I've had the HiMacs (LG solid surface similar to Corian) for about a year now, it's had heavy use, it's a light color, and no scratches so far. I wouldn't call it "dull." I use a wood cutting board and trivets for hot pots, of course, but I'd expect to use those for any surface. I remain happy with it, particularly given that I saved quite a bit of $ over something like granite or quartz.
re: GoWithQuartz
Corian does not "melt". If heated in an oven to a consistent temperature of about 300 degrees F, it will soften and can be thermoformed into curved shapes. Installed in a kitchen, very hot pots can cause white rings or cracks. Granite and engineered stone can also crack when exposed to excessive heat, and sealers and resins in both products can also be damaged. The bottom line is that you shouldn't put hot pots on ANY countertop, except maybe stainless steel. Juest because a 3125 degree pan didn't damage your countertop doesn't mean that a 400 degree cast iron pot won't. Be careful.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet (I tried to scan the whole thread, but I may have missed it - this is long!), but has anyone tried PaperStone countertops yet? They are made with recycled materials, which is a huge plus in my book, and said to resemble the look of soapstone - here is a link to a review:
Opinions greatly appreciated!
re: jazspin
I posted something about paperstone here about 2 years ago. i have never actually used it for a countertop. a friend of mine actually made a really cool stool out of it. From everything i hear, its pretty good, but i think there are problems with the finish if you ever try to sand out a stain or something. because its paper, my guess is that it will lose its sheen with sanding/ buffing. but its definitely good for heat resistance, and good for the environment. plus it looks really cool.
I haven't used Silestone myself yet. However, from my research this seems like a sensible choice in many ways. I like the fact that it doesn't require sealing. And it sounds really tough. I think granite needs more TLC than Silestone and Silestone colors are beautiful.
Finds, fixtures and fittings
http://www.home-finds.com -
Was thinking of using marble countertops next year when we remodel the kitchen. However we just bought a new marble console and someone spilled a glass of white wine. Wiped the marble down immediately, but the finish was immediately stained (etched).
Is marble able to be sealed? Are there different types of marble that are best in a kitchen?
My daughter used Black Galaxy with a polished surface in her kitchen and island. Needs to be constantly cleaned because every smudge shows. Would this be true if a lighter color were used with a matte or honed finish?
Dear farmer's daughter...Have you purchased a countertop at this point? If so, what did you choose and would you recommend it to someone like me determined to replace an "aqua granite" laminate? I'm leaning towards Corian but the sink comments concern me. Granite has sanitary issues; engineered stone, however, is also appealing. What can you tell me after almost two years since your original posting?!!
I was just in a kitchen that had unsealed limestone counter tops. They had a wonderful patina that I crave. This is where I'm heading next year.
re: pikawicca
Is this the type of limestone that has tiny fossils embedded into the surface--(one name I have heard is Lagos Azul). I agree that this is handsome..why so scant mention of limestone on this thread? Does it stain or scratch easily?
I have found this discussion very helpful. Looking for some more info. Like some others, we like the natural look of granite but feel that the flashiness of the highly-polished surface is inappropriate for our home. This thread made me aware of honed granite, which sounds like it could be a good choice for us.
The question: Does a honed granite surface present more issues/problems than a highly polished one, in terms of keeping it good looking over the short and long-term? (Stains, fingerprints, grease marks, etc. And does it need more sealing?) (There have been some hints in the thread but not much.) If so, does this make it impractical? We would be going with a light color -- does that matter?. We have small children and really use our kitchen. Any input is welcome, whether from personal or professional experience.
If honed granite is in fact not a practical choice, does anyone have any good ideas for an understated, classic-feeling yet practical kitchen in a 1910's cottagey home? (We will probably get white cabinets to go with the home's extensive white woodwork.) (Light surfaces only.)
Hi i'm new here. trying to decide between Caesarstone counter top and Silestone. I know they are basically the same thing made by different companies. But I heard Silestone chips much more easily than Caesar. Does anyone have experience with either? We must order this week so any advice is greatly appreciated!
re: lixuan
I have had Silestone in my prior home as well as my current one. I wouldn't trade it for anything. It doesn't stain, comes in a bunch of different color combinations and is cheaper than granite.
I have not ever had an issues concerning chips or cracks.
I would vote Silestone just about any day.
Hi, this thread has been most interesting. Could people let me know what they like/don't like about their Corian sink? We are definitely getting the corian countertop, but not sure yet about the sink. We have more concerns about staining the sink than anything else. thanks!!
re: bjsilber
We've had our sink for only 2 weeks, but so far I love it! It looks great. It's huge (probably the largest they make). Our counter is a pattern called Tumbleweed and it looks marble-like to me. With the huge white sink, it looks great.
Our last sink was a composite material, so I guess we're sort of used to taking care of it. I did buy a plastic type 'tub mat', that I will use only when I wash big pots and pans, so that I'm not banging around in the sink. (I'll take it out when we're not using it.)
re: bjsilber
This month I have had Corian installed in my 3rd kitchen in 14 years, and the one piece of advice I would give you is to go for a stainless steel sink if you are avid cook who uses loads of utensils. Stainless is so easy to clean; you don't have to worry when draining copious quantities of boiling water into the sink; it will never stain (I'm not saying that Corian stains, because it doesn't, either). If you plan to stay in your home and keep your Corian countertop for many years, it's possible that after tremendous wear and tear by putting so many pots, pans, sharp utensils into the sink over the years it will look less new than a stainless steel sink. Finally, I highly recommend at least a double, if not triple, sink. I simply don't understand people who have the space for two sinks but install only one. How can you possibly leave dirty pans soaking when you need to wash up or do prep work? There are so many impractical sink shapes on the market now, but roasting pans and baking trays are still traditionally rectangular and so you should bear in mind the size of your largest pan and try to get a sink that will accommodate it lying flat. I'm not sure if Corian do that. My new sinks are by Elkay and the large one is huge! Good luck with whatever you choose.-
re: LouiseB
That's a relief to hear, because I just did the same thinig (double bowl stainless steel sink, Corian (well, HiMacs, same difference) countertop. Also a double sink is good if you have a garbage disposal, or work with poultry or other raw meats -- it's nice to be able to segregate your prep work so not everything is super-contaminated (and not worry about dropping silverware down the disposal).
Although I understand why people might want a streamlined look, I guess aesthetically, also, I just felt a sink should look like...a sink.
re: hollerhither
The other reason we didn't go with stainless steel is that our faucet is copper. We had had in our old kitchen and I wanted to re-use it. I didn't think it would look good with a stainless steel sink.
I have to say I don't like double sinks. My old sink was a big one with a small one on the side. That was ok, I suppose, but we didn't really use the small side much. And the big side wasn't big enough! But each to his/her own.
re: SusanB
I don't like double sinks either. I like one BIG one. I have a pretty big one - as big as I could do and still have a reasonable amount of counter space but I wish it was a little bigger. My mom has double sinks in her kitchen and the I've noticed the side one almost never gets used. I think it's just too small to be practical.
It seems all the talk here is how really wonderful Silestone is. But I differ greatly. It has been FIVE MONTHS and I am still having problems having them install it. I have called repeatedly
at Home Depot and at Silestone. I am told the Truck broke down. I have lost several days of work and am afraid I will be fired. I am so furious. Meanwhile they have charged my credit card. Which I AM NOT PAYING. They did the template but obviously it was all wrong. I had all my appliances laid out - for them to measure- the sink the cooktop the faucet. The backsplash was wrong it is to short and doesnt fit. My Sink and cooktop are wrong also they they hole they made is too small. I call, make appts and they do not show up. I feel like taking a sledgehammer to it as a durability test and mailing the pieces back to them in New Jersey.-
re: susan murphy
Poor you, Susan - I hear your pain. I paid a Diamond Certified Kitchen Granite supplier/installer to install granite in my smallish kitchen. I got sloppy service, sloppy workmanship, and sloppy materials, and the one-day job is still not finished to my satisfaction, 3 weeks later, and they won't return my phone calls. I sent a complaint to the Diamond Certified Ombudsman last week, but don't think I'll hear back. You have to be careful that they don't put a lien on your property for unpaid contracting work, so I'm not sure how much of my payment I'll ever get back. Consumers don't seem to have any advocates here.
re: susan murphy
If you are not able to get any action, you can sue in small claims court -- in my state (Maryland) small claims court is for cases that are less than $5000. You don't need a lawyer. Take pictures and be sure that you have documentation of your contacts, etc. It might seem drastic, but that may be the only way to get the attention of Home Depot. Sometimes writing a letter (try the CEO) can get action whether or not you threaten to go to court. You really just want them to fix the problem, right? I am not a lawyer and I've never sued anybody. But I had a terrible experience with Expo (owned by Home Depot); a designer insisted on doubling my available budget for a bathroom renovation. She fired me (honest) and said she couldn't possibly lower the estimate. (I wanted to replace the bathtub; she said that I needed a stall shower with multiple sprays and a built in seat, etc.) I finally wrote a letter and threatened a small claims suit. I was being charged (with high interest) for the design services which were to be applied to the purchase that I had expected to make, but didn't under the circumstances. The designer didn't even give me the plans. Anyway, Expo dropped the charges. Good luck; sometimes you have to take justice into your own hands.
Our new granite counters are a couple of weeks old, and so far, it's love. We had the granite (verde vecchio) treated with a process called flaming and wire brushing, which is different than honed. This process brings up the texture of the stone so that when you run your hands over it, you can feel the different inclusions in the stone. It is a matte finish, and it shows nothing -- no spots, no water marks, nothing. Of course it is sealed, which they suggest we do whenever it seems like the water no longer beads on the surface, and this sealing worked really well since my husband put down an oily bowl that left a ring when he removed it. It washed off fine, and is undetectable.
We had Silestone countertop installed in our kitchen about a year ago. I LOVE it. I considered Corian, but didn't like the "plastic" look.
Now I see that Corian and the other brands of solid surface are coming out with colors/patterns that look more like natural stone. I'm really leaning toward this option for our bathrooms. The thing that I REALLY like about solid surface in the bathrooms is the integrated sink, for ease of cleaning. Plus, bathroom counters aren't subject to quite the "abuse" that kitchen counters are.
I have never like tile countertops. Even when they were all the rage in the 80s and 90s, I looked at all those grout lines and thought "ewwwwww."
re: jazzcat22
We just had a Corian counter with the integrated sink installed last week in our kitchen. It looks amazing and I'm thrilled with it! The pattern is called Tumbleweed and it looks really similar to some marble accessories we have in the bathroom. So I guess it does look like stone! I love it.
Let me add my 2-cents to the confustion. Eleven years ago, I had corian installed in my kitchen. I wanted to avoid grout lines (I make a lot of pastry, so being able to roll out dough on a smooth surface is critical). What I didn't like about corian is that it looked dated after not too long, and had "plastic" appearance. However, I have an aunt and uncle who are chefs, and they have white corian with an integrated sink that looks wonderful in their kitchen against dark cherrywood cabinets.
I just remodeled my kitchen two months ago, and replaced the corian with Caesarstone (which is an engineered quartz product). I love the Caesarstone far more than the corian. The color selection for Caesarstone is very good. I went with a gold-beige color called "creme limestone," very neutral, no strong pattern. My main reason for staying away from granite was that I didn't want the dark color or the strong pattern. Caesarstone looks like stone, and it doesn't stain easily. I can scrub out stains with a little scouring powder. I can put hot pans on it. I have received a lot of compliments on the way it all turned out.
Good luck with your decision.
re: La Dolce Vita
Guess I'm old fashioned, but still have ceramic tile after 13 years and love it, and plan to put it into a small old house I'm renovating with my son. Just so many patterns and colors to choose from: the combo's are endless, and OK, I don't roll out much pizza dough to worry about the grout--I did have butcher block cutting boards inset into the counter by the cooktop on the island. Almost no grout stains in all this time except around the coffee pot area. Anyone else still using tile? I too wonder about granite, etc., going out of "vogue" over time. Thanks, Cathey
re: Catheyjo
This is my first post , . . thanks everyone for all the great info . . . the best I've found on the question of which countertop material is best. I've been thinking of replacing my 13-year old white tile counter with granite. After reading ALL the posts, I think I will keep the tile. I like to put my baking sheets on the counter, along with hot pots. There are a few small chips on the edges, along with a few hardly noticeable hairline cracks, but no stains or bacteria buildup, like I'm reading about for granite. I've never sealed the grout (maybe there's bacteria there?), but that's not a bad idea. I will hire someone to clean the grout, seal and call it a day. Thanks!
re: La Dolce Vita
Be careful - if you put a VERY hot pot on your new Caesarstone, you may end up with a crack or a blemish. That being said, Caesarstone is a great product. I wouldn't put a hot pot on ANY countertop. I am in the countertop repair business, and I have seen thousands of cases of damage to all kinds of countertops caused by extremely hot pots.
Granite is expensive. Accidentally drop a heavy dish on it and watch it smash to pieces. Accidents are not covered under any type of warranty. A neighbor of mine accidentally dropped a vintage piece of Fiesta onto the granite and broke a corner off her granite countertops (brand new) and couldn't believe the mess it made.
Corian is by far the best material I've had for a countertop. Silestone is good, too.
re: antiqueluvr
Accidentally drop a heavy dish on it and watch it smash to pieces.
I've dropped an 8 quart Le Creuset Dutch oven on mine with no ill effects. If you smash a corner by dropping some thing super heavy on one you could chip one but they can be repaired. When you choose granite it's important to consider the type of edge you will have milled. Granite is not fragile but there is a lot of other types of stone getting passed off as granite. If you are looking for strong granite for a kitchen you want a very tight pattern with very little movement as they are typically much stronger.
I am redoing my kitchen (22 years old) yeah!
We decided after looking at the Silestone Quartz and Granite
to go with Silestone.
It was chosen by Consumer Reports as the best, so we decided
that would be our choice. We are down to two colors - Amazon leather and something Brown (looks more like granite). -
Just want to add here that I had Corian installed last week in one of the new 2008 colors called Lava Rock. It looks just like concrete or slate and it looks great! It has a matte finish and weighs so much less than granite. I originally wanted granite but since EVERYONE is getting granite I decided to be a little different and loved the look of this. I got the recessed Corian sink too which is also nice. I saw alot of people here were against Corian and only a few who loved it. We shall see how it holds up but for now I love it!
re: LowerGwyneddGirl
Thank you for the input. I have decided that no matter how "good" a deal it is the "Leather" finish from Silestone probably won't work.
I ran an knife blade over it and it marked it up. It didn't scratch it just left silver marks, also the cake cooling racks I use did the same thing.
I am not sure why and I may go into the local Silestone reps store and mess with a few other finishes. I just keep going back to that 75% off!! I never pay retail for anything! LOL
I am a baker, I am always pulling hot cake pans out of the oven, then flipping cakes over onto cooling racks, also I use food coloring, and lots of oil. I am so worried that the granite is going to get discolored from all this However I do love the black granite (like) sinks and I will get one of those. No more Pepsi and Tea stains! <G>I never thought it would be this difficult to choose. Thank you to everyone who has replied to my questions.
To all on this thread: thanks for great information. I've been following your comments for months and I think this is one of the best threads on the board. I ruled out granite because I think down the line it will look dated, and it was simply too expensive. Butcher block might have been nice but I didn't want to use it around the sink, and similar issues with expense. Tile was not appealing due to uneven-ness and grout issues. Laminate just seemed too cheap-looking, after years of renting we wanted to upgrade now that we are finally owners.
We settled on HiMacs (solid surface by LG) to replace a horrible chipped plum-colored laminate installed by prior owners probably two decades ago. It's a neutral beige color but the pattern has some decent dimension and depth, and was less expensive than the Corian or Silestone patterns we looked at. We use trivets as a matter of course, and I have purchased a large Boos block for my dedicated chopping area. And we got a new, deeper undermount sink, but *not* in the solid surface as I was concerned about staining and chipping.
As I do heavy-duty cooking, I'm hoping this holds up, as even this investment was significant, in my opinion. And just coming off a kitchen remodel, I am certainly not eager to repeat the time and expense any time soon! I am looking forward to having a functional, updated, (but not designer) kitchen.
re: hollerhither
Should be okay. We have HiMacs in our office kitchen. (The owner is funny like that. I guess he couldn't bring himself down to the laminate level even in the office. We do own the space.) Over the last 3 1/2 years, well, we don't do heavy cooking on it, but it's held up okay. I wouldn't get it in the green color we got, and I do find it a funny surface to clean. It can scratch, too, but only if you cut right on it.
So you didn't go for the integrated sink? It's really cool how it comes out. Totally seamless. It is a light beige, though, so you are right to be concerned about staining. It doesn't stay pristine. Chipping, though, not sure where that would come from. This is the same plastic as the rest of the stuff. It's not going to chip that I can see.
re: CrazyOne
Hmmm, yeah, I just figured the sink is a sink...why not stainless, you know? The stains would bug me over time, although I guess we risk that with the countertop, too. It will be interesting to see how it wears. At this point I'm just so happy to have something new (and better-engineered) in the space! The old "plum" laminate we inherited might have been just the thing at one moment in time...many moons ago...
re: hollerhither
I've never been here before and it looks quite interesting. I might suggest something I haven't notice, but then again I haven't read the entire site, but what about concrete countertops. They are very versatile, easy to seal, wonderfully easy to design around things and settings and also able to be dyed just about any color you can think of.I have several in my kitchen and have been using them for 3 years now and they are great. They never look dirty, and hot pans don't affect them.
re: hollerhither
Yeah, come to think of it, the integrated sink would have been expensive-ish ($500?), but the promo they were running at the time threw it in for free. I just happened to be with the boss when he ordered it; I don't remember why. I think it'll hold up fine; even with your light color I don't think you'll have a staining problem. No worse than laminate in that regard.
You should see the laminate in my house: butcher block pattern. I don't know who ever thought that was a good idea, and it seems original to the 25-year-old house. Odd because it clashes with the cabinets, which are really cheap and ugly. And to top it off, there's the oak parquet floor (which I think is not original). Talk about clashing wood-grain patterns!
re: CrazyOne
We've just started a renovation (husband will be doing most of the work) and we're going with corian counter and the integrated sink. Our previous sink was some sort of composite material, and we had a beautiful copper faucet with it. We're keeping the faucet, and I just can't see it looking good with a stainless steel sink. Besides, I like the idea of 'seamless'.
re: CrazyOne
Funny -- I had butcher block laminate countertops in the last place we rented. And cheap faux oak cabinets, and old wood floors! I didn't think about it beforehand, but it can't be a coincidence that there's just about no wood in the reno plan for our kitchen. ;) Except for repainting old wood trim and cabinets, of course!
re: hollerhither
Hi, I Googled "Silestone" comparisons and got this web site. I must say it has been interesting reading.
Here is my dilemma. Someone ordered Sliestone countertops for their kitchen. Then there was a memo sent and they changed their mind on the color. Well Home Depot got stuck with the first set of counter tops. They have been there since October of last year with no takers. This is due in part to the measurements not working for anyone. I measured my kitchen and there are several sections that I can use. It is the top grade of Silestone, texture is Leather and the color is Amazon Leather. The store is giving me a 75% discount on the counter tops. Now my problem is finding a cutter to finish making the sink opening, install the under mount sink and get the perfect fit. IF I can find someone and they don't charge me an arm and a leg then I am saving a huge amt of $$$. I love the color, it looks like concrete and has a dull finish. I really don't like granite at all, I am a baker, and roll out pie dough all the time. I also bake wedding cakes so lots of counter top is a must. Those of you with Silestone, can you roll out pie crust ect.. on the counter or does it stick? As for the hot pot issue I have never and probably wound never put a hot pot right from the oven onto any counter so that isn't an issue.
This past summer I accidentally ran the kitchen sink over and really made a mess of the floor and kitchen cabinets. The insurance paid for repair but honestly it is enough to redo the whole kitchen. Before my husband passed away we planned on doing the kitchen. Now I am re-doing the kitchen in order to get a better sale price, since all my sons are now grown and moved out, I don't think I want to stay in a big house much longer. I am truly designing on a dime here and am trying to get the most bang for my buck. I am planning on using IKEA cabinets also. So if anyone has used those I would be interested in hearing about them.-
re: USAFAMom
I only just got the HiMacs installed (solid surface) but looks like a much better surface for rolling out dough than laminate. Unfortunately, that's my only basis for comparison.
There is a thread on IKEA cabinets, try a "search this board" for IKEA, perhaps. I know I've read good feedback. Good luck.
re: USAFAMom
Not sure if you purchased your IKEA cabinets yet, but I have and installed them by myself (my wife helped organize the boxes and helped with a little bit of the trickier parts of installing cabinets which require 2 people)
No major experience yet, but I can tell you that you should invest in some cordless power tools and be relatively handy. I also recommend a automatic brad nailer (corded) that will help when installing the backs of the cabinets. The cabinets look decent and I really recommend the 'soft close' drawers and doors. This feature alone is what sets this apart from a lot of the cabinets you can buy and it's comparable to high end cabinets which feature this. Cost was the reason why we went with IKEA and I'm not regretting it.
I am two days away (May 1st) from having Granite countertops installed in my house. I can tell you the countertops alone cost me exactly 50% of the total cost of my kitchen. I know this thread is a discussion about which countertop is best, etc. but we went with what looked best and to us Granite came out on top. To be honest, I don't think 90% of our friends and family have a clue as to what the difference is between all the manmade materials, but they surely will notice when we show them the Granite.
I personally say that it's kind of ridiculous to talk about someone placing a hot pan or pot on top of a countertop and not expect to have 'something' happen. In our family I was raised where formica was the main countertop and only now with all these new countertop materials you have the luxury of doing something like this, but STILL I will not take a chance with this and use something to lay on top of the counter to resist heat and or scratches.
The material I'm using is through Home Depot and it's from a company called Plamar. I expect to enjoy it for many years to come.
re: junkmailng
We're also installing ours, right now. Or at least my husband is. He's retired while I still work, so he's got the time - but more importantly, he's done lots of work like that before, so he's 'handy'. He's also got all the necessary tools. Our little house is a mess right now - almost impossible to walk through the living room and dining room - filled with Ikea boxes ......
But it's going to be great when it's finished!
re: USAFAMom
yessiree, you can roll out all the pastry you like on Silestone. Look in the yellowpages or whatever under 'granite' or 'counters' to find a stone yard that can handle the work. i don't know why depot cant just say who they use.............. that's weird! ikea cabinets are cheap. but anything bolted to the wall isn't likely to rack and fall apart. best advice: hire an NKBA professional to do the layout design work. REALLY! don't trust your contractor nor a big box nor yourself to think this through. a kitchen is a working space. it should be designed by someone who knows what to do and what not to do. and isn't just making it up as they go along. you could find someone on-line, but pay attention to the questions they're asking. they should be asking good questions and willing to say why they recommend something. you might actually find you've put in a kitchen that won't work for the next buyer!
My recommendations are either laminate or stainless steel or something like rock maple (wood).
Cost, functionality, looks, value, ease or difficulty of maintenance are primary factors.
Nothing out there is "lifetime", I assure you. It all wears, stains, chips, or *something* over time. Not the least consideration is that most Americans don't live in their houses for anything like a lifetime, and American consumerism requires changes in "fashion" on a periodic basis. You could have the kitchen of kitchens, sell your house, and the next couple who move in are gonna go "ewww, what were they thinking" and remodel it all.
You can't cut on any of it with your fancy Shun knives, and you really shouldn't put hot pans on any of it (just use a trivet, ok), and you shouldn't butcher a hog on it, regardless of what it is (ok, so stainless is the exception).
I'm in and out of custom homes on a weekly basis. The reality is that there is no perfect surface, there is only what you can afford, and your personal sense of "style". Everything else is a trade off.
I bet you $5 though, that you can't show me a professional commercial kitchen with granite or marble countertops that isn't meant for a TV show.
re: fussycouple
Professional commercial kitchens must use food prepartion surfaces that are certified safe by the NSF (National Sanitation Foundation). Because of the variability among the thousands of natural stones on the market, they haven't been certified by the NSF. Stainless steel is the overwhelming leader in commercial kitchens, but seems too "institutional" for most residential kitchens.
I'd just like to reiterate what someone else said: that granite, quartz, marble are not sustainable resources, i.e. once it comes out of the ground it does not come back. There are many other choices. Recycled glass, paper; concrete, etc.
re: eatzealot
All those materials use epoxy type binders. Those binders come from petrochemicals.
I have serious doubts that the world will ever "run out" of granite, or marble -- if I remember my geology isn't new mantle formed at the bottom of the ocean? Maybe we sound be promoting counters made of volcanic magma. -- http://www.kitchen-counter-tops.net/g...
(I am pretty sure most granite is technically "metamorphic" rock that spent eons under pressure and was heaved into a minable site over long periods of time, but still don't think we can "use it up" the same way an oil well goes dry...
)BTW I do think that sustainable FOODS are a legitimate issue, and I fully appreciate the trend toward everything from heirloom vegetables to organic meats, but I think that there is no evidence that plastics binders, no matter how small a percentage they constitute make a building material "more sustainable" than a 100% natural product. It is marketing puffery.
re: Buckethead
I rebuilt our farmhouse kitchen (in England) about five years ago, and looked at various solutions to the worktop problem. What I settled on was fully vitrified biscuit porcelain tiles. These are for all practical purposes solid glass, they can be had in lots of colours, and they are both completely impervious and extremely hard. In five years of pretty heavy use, not one scratch, chip or discolouration.
You'll find these tiles at any good tile shop, they're most commonly used in high-end car showrooms for flooring, for the same reasons of durability, hardness and impermeability to car fluids.
re: Buckethead
More marketing hype -- they use the term "phenolic resin"
http://www.paperstoneproducts.net/ps_tech_specs.phpI know what phenols are, because that is exactly what MOST epoxy is:
Modern construction sites are surrounded by a soup or organic compounds, I don't fault the manufacturers for trying to limit the use of volatile compounds, and appreciate that many companies are actively trying to use water-based formulations, but facts are facts and STONE is STONE and "paperstone" incorporates a synthetic chemical compound.
re: renov8r
if granitic materials are indeed formed the bottom of the ocean then we'd also need economic means of recovering this material.
granites are igneous sourced and formed in intrusive plutons so they are/were subject to heat and pressure, but actual formation of granites are results of slowww cooling (allowing time for growth of large visible crystals)...
however, marbles--formerly (sedimentary) limestone deposits--are classified as metamorphic, as are "slates" (noun as well as adjective describing its main attribute)
practically speaking, you are right -- we'd never really "run out" of this stuff. of course with any natural resource there are questions of quality and accessibility
When we replaced our about-to-delaminate Formica three years ago (an urgent project since we were schedule to be on the local holiday house tour), we opted for Granite Transformations. It's an engineered stone, but it is a thin cap that is custom-constructed and fits over existing the countertop. It is about the same price as other quality engineered stone, but the installation requires no demolition and is therefore not messy. Ours was installed in less than a day. It does not need oiling or any other kind of treatment, can take a hot pot and is virtually bullet-proof.
re: ClaireWalter
Thank you for all the replies. Does Corian look "dull"? I've heard its not for some people. We will be going with black and really don't care if it has the shine of granite. We just want it to go with the rest of the kitchen and be durable. I was raised with the old fashioned formica counter tops and would never put a hot pot on an unprotected countertop or cut on one. Its just ingrained. In response to the granite transformations, is it as heavy as regular granite?
We've had Corian in our house for 35+ years. It has a couple very tiny gouges (but it is not a porous material, so food safety isn't an issue, and the color goes straight through, so the gouges are invisible), but otherwise still looks like new. We were told at the time of installation that we could put hot pots directly on the surface, but never have - we try to take care of our stuff and see no reason not to use a trivet. We also don't cut directly on the corian surface - as others here have said, any countertop will ruin your knife - even if it the knife won't damage your countertop!
We have really nice corian - good color, good installation, not sure why other people hate it so much. We've been happy. I'm now looking at a new kitchen, and corian is definitely an option.Stainless steel dents. If you drop a glass or plate on the counter, it can make a nice dent that you cannot get out (happened in our friend's kitchen). So even if you don't mind a few little scratches, think about how you feel about dents.
True, concrete and stone are beautiful and offer lots of design flexibility, but not all stones are non-porous, and they are all very hard. If you drop a glass on corian, it will probably not break. With concrete and stone, it most likely will break.
No, we are not that clumsy, but accidents DO happen even in the most careful cook's kitchen, and we prefer to limit the amount of glass-shard cleanup we do! Especially since we have a lot of heirloom dishes that cannot be replaced, so we'd rather our dishes bounced or even chipped a little, rather than shattered.This also relates to kitchen floors - concrete and tile are very popular, but not only will they break anything that drops on them, but they are very hard surfaces for standing - no give, so will tire your legs and feet more than wood (wood also doesn't break most glasswear dropped - depending on the height of the fall, material of cup, etc.) does if you are standing and cooking for long periods of time (like preparing for a dinner party or any large meal).
Tile grout also tends to stain and get dirty - even if it is sealed - the sealers wear off after a while.Think about how YOU use your kitchen, how often things get dropped or fall, are you using glasses/plates that are heirlooms and very precious, or new pieces you aren't attached to and won't be overwrought about if they do break. How much do you stand and cook? What is your workflow movement? Do you really NEED to be able to put hot pots directly on your countertop? If you plan to live in the house for many years, think about how things will change when you have small children, teenagers, pets, and what about when you yourself are older, stiffer - can't reach as high, can't stand as long - can your kitchen deal with all of these life changes?
re: oldhouse
There is nothing wrong with Corian. Our Corian countertops are 13 years old and all they require is a little polish once in a while. The white under-mount sink scrubs clean with a little Ajax and a sponge. The Corian countertops are a light color (grey with back and grey flecks) and they still look great. We recenty installed new stainless steel appliances and they look great. The cabinets were custom-made for our kitchen with triple-crown molding around the tops, but they are white. We simply changed our old door/drawer pulls to brushed chrome and intstalled a brushed chrome faucet (pulls and faucet purchased on eBay -- save $$). It looks like a new kitchen and friends and neighbors think we spent a fortune!
Corian cannot be beat for durability!!
We have had Corian for over a year now and just love it. Have never had a problem with scratches - it is much improved from what was installed years ago.
It never stains, does not require sealing and cleans so easily-
re: Donna52479
We are building a kitchen island. The rest of our kitchen is granite but the island will have to be movable in case we need to get an appliance out. I want something that is beautiful but not as heavy as granite. How do the other stones, corian, formica, etc. compare in weight and looks? Thanks.
re: ceejay104
Call all of the suppliers in your area and arrange a FREE in-home estimate. They will bring samples with them, and you can get a first-hand demo of how well they work with your granite countertops.
If your island is to be on locking wheels, and assuming you have good strong floors, I cant see how matching your present granite (or using another color of actual granite to contrast) would be a problem. Well, unless you'll need to lift the island to move it for some reason.
I am a concrete fan, you can have any color, high polished sheen or matte finish depending on your preference, cost effective, any shape you can make levels in the surface you can put optics or embeds in the surface making it very personalized and unique. Concrete as a material is porous, but they have admixtures in the mix and sealers that don't have these problems at all. I would compare the qualities of concrete as a surface to granite. You can do whatever you want, but no top should ever get hot pans or cutting on. If you cut on a surface (any of them) you ruin your knifes, and putting a hot pan on it compromises the integrity of your sealer, you can embed trivets in your concrete countertop if you feel the need to have hot pans on your top...
Also there are lightweight concrete options that could go on any cabinets, the reason why there isn't more information about it is because it isn't a commodity type product like the rest of these, it is all handmade and custom, you have to find a local artisan to make it. Granite even if mined here they ship overseas for cheap labor to do all the finish work and then ship back, nothing green about granite...-
re: myradel
Most countertops are "handmade and custom" to a greater or lesser extent. The raw materials may be a "commodity type product", but what could be more of a commodity than concrete? The craftsperson transforms the commodity material into something customized to YOUR kitchen. There are few products bought by most people that have the degree of customization as kitchen countertops.
I recently restored/renovated & added on to my kitchen. I went round & round on this topic & finally allowed my architect to talk me into marble counter/work tops & marble floors. Initially I wanted all stainless, but at the very end switched to the marble alternative - I'm most grateful that I did. It does make for a louder volume; however, it looks clean & cool all of the time.
I am ordering a Corian countertop (for the 3rd time, in my 3rd kitchen in 14 years) since I find it to be indestructible. As a Cordon Bleu cook, I spend a huge amount of time in the kitchen and have NEVER had problems with heat stains, scratches, cracks. It is so easy to keep clean, and at the time of installation you will be given a maintenance kit for any mishaps. I have had none in all these years. As an experiment, my husband, being a perfectionist, decided to call back one of the installers to get him to sand the surface to see how it compared to when it was originally installed (3 years previously) and when the job was completed we were satisfied that it was indeed a waste of money and quite unnecessary. Corian has never let me down. Purists tell me to go for a natural product (especially to help in the resale of our property) but that it such a negative attitude: the kitchen is there for me, not for a future buyer. A number of people tell me that their fine china and crystal gets chipped on stone surfaces - and that the only way around this problem is to lay a kitchen towel on the countertop when emptying the dishwasher or removing the items from the sink. What a nuisance!! If the majority of cooking takes place in a microwave then the countertop surface will be less of an issue. If, like me, you use all of your pots, pans, utensils on a frequent basis then Corian will not disappoint. Also, good hygiene practice is of paramount importance in a kitchen and, again, Corian comes out tops. In closing, my opinion is that a countertop is there not so much to be admired like a fine piece of art but for the sole purpose of preparing food in an environment which is practical and hygienic. The fact that Corian comes in such a huge array of colors now only makes my eventual choice of color that much more difficult!
re: LouiseB
They finally finished installing my black granite counterops today, and may I say the black is magnificent? Does Corian come in black? My ceramic cooktop blends right in for a totally smooth look.
Now my only remaining quandry is what color to paint all of the cabinets, the island, the hood, and the wainscotting. Currently, they are all what I call "1920s arsenic green" that I inherited from the former owner. The walls are a linen white and the black countertops really make the black trimmed stainless steel appliances (soon to go out of style, I'm sure!) pop.
I don't know if I'm teetering on the brink of insanity, but bless my soul, I'm seriously considering painting the cabinets etc.a nice not-too-flashy pumpkin chiffon. The big question is whether I'll end up hating myself about two weeks after I fork over a chunk of cash to the painters? Will eating in a pumpkin chiffon kitchen make the food taste funny? Will it make the room feel hot and clammy in the summer? Is this a sign that Charlie Brown has cast an evil spell on me? <sigh> Decisions, decisions.
re: JayVaBeach
Thanks, Jay. And now, if I end up not liking it, you've given me someone to blame it on! '-)
Actually, I've got the color swatch picked out and plan on picking up an itsy bitsy can of it tomorrow to paint the island. Then, if it's too strong or too weak or I end up thinking I can't live with orange, it's not like I'd have to repaint the entire kitchen. The color swatch looks delicious with the black granite!
re: Caroline1
It sounds very handsome Caroline. I have friends with a villa in the South of France & they did solid black granite with tangerine accents & I must say it's boldly beautiful in their authentic "french cuisine." Their designer calls it salmon; however, it's truly tangerine & it looks terrific. I'll be there for the holidays & can't wait to visit again.
re: Docsknotinn
Alas, the cabinets are still arsenic green. But there is comedy involved!
Hired a painter who told me he was highly experienced, had personally painted 6 kitchen with brush and no-voc paint. He quoted me a price to do it if I bought the materials. Sent him off to Home Depot for saw horses (to rest the cabinet doors on while he painted), paint, brushes, drop cloths and all that jazz. When I went out into the garage to see how he was progressing on the first four doors, he had two of them up on the saw horses, one per saw horse, carefully balanced so he could not stroke the brush down the sides of the doors without knocking them to the floor. He was dipping the paint brush beyond the ferrel, and the paint was heavily pooled in all of the panel recesses. It was water base paint (thankfully), so I told him to take that door quickly into the back door and wash the paint off and rehang the doors.
He did, then came and told me he would have to redrill holes in the doors for the pulls; the ones on the top doors were too high to reach and the ones on the bottom were almost to the floor. HE WAS SERIOUS! When I told him to simply remount the top doors on the bottom and vice versa, he thought I was a genius! Hey, I could NOT make this stuff up!
I got an estimate from a well advertised professional company. Explained I have a lot of allergies and require no-voc paint and that the work be done with brushes to curtail air contamination. They gave me a written estimate for $4,000.00 using high voc sprayed paint! They explained it was a "little high" because they would have to paint the walls and ceiling to cover up the overblow from painting the cabinets! So how come they think they're smart enough not to let the wall spray get on the cabinets, but they're not smart enough to figure out how to keep the cabinet paint from getting on the walls? Or do they just think I'm stupid?
Someday I hope to find a real PAINTER! And then I think I'll go with cream to match the travertine back splashes. Meanwhile, how do I get so lucky?
As soon as my new totally flat cook top arrives, I'll be getting highly polished black granite countertops with the black cooktop mounted flush in the island. I can hardly wait. But it's been nearly two years of research and hemming and hawing. You gotta live with the results a very long time, so if you don't want to end up hating yourself, think, think, think!.
If you shop very carefully and take bids from lots of granite people, it's highly possible you will find a great price on granite. At least I did. It's costing $4,000 for 13 running feet of "side" countertops, a very large island, and a wet bar done in the black, and cream tumbled marble back splashes. That's only a tad more than the cheapest cultured granite estimate I got. And they're throwing in a free stainless steel double sink. I will have to pay an electrician and a plumber to reconnect the cooktop and the plumbing. That's "code."
A great advantage of granite is that only diamonds are harder, so it's incredibly scratch resistant. It's great for candy making or baking. Toss a zip-lock bag of crushed ice on it before you roll out your pie dough (or puff pastry) and you get baker-pro results! You don't have to worry about sliding a scorching-hot heavy cast iron skillet from the cook top to the granite counter top. Well, don't slide it onto an iced spot or you might crack the cast iron!
Both marble and soapstone are porous and have to be resealed regularly, plus they scratch. Marble is pitted by beer, but it's okay to spill champagne on it. Both take a great deal of extra work and care.
I don't care what brand of cultured granite you look at, it LOOKS "cultured." And it doesn't feel the same to the touch as real granite.
If I had money to burn, I *might* consider alabaster or some exotic stone for the kitchen, at least as an accent, but just think of me as a designer who can't afford her own designs. I did consider plate glass mirrors for the backsplashes (affordable), but then realized that every time I put two dirty plates on the counter, I'd see FOUR! Don't need that! But the mirrors would be striking... Maybe paper plates? '-)
Do NOT consider Home Depot or Lowes for your countertops unless you want to pay through the nose for what you can get from other places for half the price and often less. My experience and best advice is when it comes to any sort of home improvement, the more time you invest in research and pricing, the more money you save in the end. And whenever possible, act as your own general contractor.
Now, if you're really concerned about cost and want a counterop that is almost as great as granite, go with ceramic tile. The new silicone grouts last much longer than the old traditional ones, and if you want a fairly seamless look, you can even have the grout tinted to match the tile.
My best advice is to stay away from stainless steel countertops. In another ten years they'll be as dated as a turqoise refrigerator, along with all of the currently in-demand stainless steel appliances. Planned obsolescence!
And cement countertops are ridiculously expensive, plus I'm not all that convinced they're food safe. Well, like soapstone and marble, they require special sealing, and did I mention they're expensive? That, plus some people are allergic to concrete/cement. I'm one of them. Walk barefoot on a sidewalk and I'm in big trouble. So cement countertops can limit your resale market, though admittedly not by much. But I think they are just another turqoise refrigerator of the future.
Whatever you choose, enjoy your new kitchen! I'm just praying mine is done by Thanksgiving. All depends on the arrival of the new cooktop. "Backorder" will earn somebody a pie in the face!
re: VtHawk7
Thanks! I'll at least have half a kitchen for Thanksgiving, even if the cook top doesn't get here until Easter. They're doing the sink and side counters plus wetbar tomorrow morning, then coming back to do the island when the cook top gets here. This company is really great about working around the confusion... It's beginning to look like it will arrive on or about Thanksgiving day! LOL! Best laid plans of mice. Pass the Thanksgiving cheese! '-)
re: Caroline1
I beg to differ. Stainless steel appliances have been classics for decades, and look great long after they are installed. Porcelain finished appliances often look beat-up a few years after they are installed. Porcelain finishes often chip at the edges, and are subject to heat damage near the burners. You can scrub the heck out of stainless steel without worry.
re: Caroline1
Five years later and this has popped up on my radar again, soooooo... UPDATE!
The black granite countertops were successffully installed and now, five years down the line, I still love them! The installers "sealed" them at installation. I have never re-sealed them. For the first six months or so, I bought expensive "stone cleaner" for them. Since then, it's been Windex all the way. They are still pitch black and mirror shiny, and one of the many reasons I love them is that I can tell at a glance if my counters are clean What I have learned is that they cannot be cleaned with a kitchen sponge and soapy water, unless you want streaks. When I fry and my cooktop and the granite are covered with spatters (lipid rain!), Windex and one or two paper towels is the most efficient way to cut through grease and end up with streak free granite. I'm a very happy camper.
Dear Farmersdaughter...Its time to straighten out all you people who have Corian, but have changed to Granite, Engineered Stone or whatever because you are afraid of heat, scratches etc.
First ...Day to day cleaning use warm soapy water and Towel dry to eliminate water spots.
Second.. If you have scratches, you Must use an Abrasive cleaner like Comet or Ajax with a Green Scotch Brite pad. This will remove lite scratches and any stains that might be on your top. This process will renew the surface, and it should look good as new with a nice matte finish. Do not be bashful, use elbow grease and apply pressure. If you want a SemiGloss finish go over the top with Soft Scrub after you have done the previous step.
Third.. If you have gouges, then you need a more agressive process, but it will still be ok..Get an orbital palm sander, (rent or borrow if you do not have one ). Using 120 grit sandpaper first, sand out the gouge and an area around it so it blends. Then go to 220 grit paper to give it a more fine finish, and then do the Comet / Ajax process and again it will be good as new. Corian never needs to be sealed! Bacteria and stains do not penetrate, they stay on the surface.
Regarding Heat... Do not be so afraid...Corian will easily withstand heat to 350 degrees. I have Corian and have removed a turkey pan and left it on my top and it has not been an issue. I do still recommend a trivet plate when doing this, because "What if ", but when I have forgotten so far I have not had a problem. At higher heat you might get a burn in your Corian , which is a discoloration in the product. The only way this can be repaired is by having a fabricator cut out the area, and inserting in another piece, and usually this will blend in very nicely. It might cost something, but certainly cheaper then buying a new top.
For those people who have been sold on the idea of the granites, & engineered stone products and their high resistence to heat, please Read On.
Granite Vs heat...Most cases it will accept it with no problem..Very rare will it crack the stone, but the possibility is there if there is a fissure within the stone, and if it does, your up that perverbiale creek.( No fix to it ). This product is very porus and must be sealed, and are you sealing it with food compatible chemicals?
Engineered stone ..Very heat resistant, but if you read the literature those manufactures all recommend using a trivet.
NOW FOR THE TRUTH THAT ALL GRANITE AND STONE PEOPLE FORGET TO TELL CONSUMERS. If you set something hot on these surfaces, it might not break or crack, but 100% of the time, the heat goes somewhere. That somewhere goes into the stone. For those of you with young children, imagine the surprise they will get when they put their tender hands on the spot where you just removed the very hot pan. Yes, they will get badly burned.. Think about how you would explain to the emergency room doctor that your child burned themselves on your countertop. Be prepared for an inquisition..Does it happen alot, no. Does it happen yes. Whats the solution? Use a heat trivet to place your pans on, and if you do this , then whats the difference if its stone or Corian.
About me..I sell corian for a living, and I very much appreciate people having different preferences for products...I personally love the look of stone, both man made and natural , but I do get frustrated when people are sold something, be it Corian, Stone, laminate or now even concrete and they are not educated about each.
Thank you for reading and good luck in whatever you do.-
re: VtHawk7
Very comprehensive and jfood has had Corian, Limestone and Marble and loved all of them so he is not trying to sell any of them. But he has a question to your TRUTH paragraph. Jfood has never experienced the temperature of any counter achieving burn the skin temperature, but if that is true of granite is it not also true of Corian, stainless, and other surfaces?
re: jfood
Hey JFood , Thanks for replying..That was alot of typing for me, and I was wondering if anyone would read it. To answer your concern. You are absolutely correct in questioning if the heat issue would happen in corian. Indeed it would! If people were told you could put those very hot pans on it and leave them there, the heat would go into Corian and the exact same thing would happen if you touched it. The other thing that would happen is, it would "Burn" the corian. When corian is burnt, it is a permanent discoloration that cannot come out unless the affected piece is cut out and another one put in. This is a repair ( could be costly ) and it would have to be done by a fabricator. A little side note, if one leaves a lit cigarette on corian and it makes the brown mark we are all familiar with, that is a stain and is removed by using a scotch brite pad with a little comet or ajax.
Back to your concern, I put this whole burn part in because of Farmers daughters friend had her scared over the heat damage issue with corian. This can happen, so any good Corian Salesperson will stress the use of a hot plate of some sort.
As far as the burning oneself it did happen to an Architect in Maine ( I forgot his name) but his wife was making spaghetti sauce and it was simimering and very hot. She took the pot she was using, and placed in on their granite center kitchen island, and left it there as she did other things on the stove. After a bit , she resumed cooking it on the stove. Her husband who had an office in the same house to came out to see what she was up to, placed his hand flat on the island in the exact spot the pot had been, ( heat on stone is not visible) and he got 3rd degree burns...Granted this is an extreme case, but every once in a while things in life are extreme.
Any countertop, not protected by a hot plate, will absorb heat. It cannot be seen. But a hot plate is something that most people recognise is used for placing hot things on.
I do not think the heat issue on laminate would be quite as bad as it has a particle board substrate, but it would most likely bubble the surface, and delaminate it in that spot.. I hope I have answered your questions. Thanks for asking. VtHawk7-
re: VtHawk7
Thanks VT, accidents happen.
jfood's biggest fear inthe kitchen is the pan handle when he sears on the stove and finishes in the oven. The handle is now >350 degrees and is very hot. To help jfood ALWAYS places the potholder glove over the handle until it cools off, and this can take 20-30 minutes. So jfood is always looking for other people who have had problems so he can learn.
Thank you for the info.
re: VtHawk7
Dear VtWawk7,
I read with interest your post on how to remove scratches from Corian. I had been following the directions given in the kit I received with my Corian 13 years ago which called for 220 and 180 sandpaper followed by a Scotch Brite pad, and all I got for my effort was more scratches. I am off to buy some Comet now in the hopes that your suggestion will do the trick.
We're trying to decide on a countertop, and our contractor is licensed in a solid-surface by Formica, similar to Corian, which looks nice from the samples. But what I'm most concerned about is the weight of engineered stone vs the Corian, since we currently have a laminate island that has a dropped panel about a half-foot down from the top, which is just screwed into the cabinets, where we eat our dinner using regular chairs and not bar stools. We really like that dropped panel look, and have been told that the granite and the engineered stone would be difficult to install in that same configuration. So we may have to go with the solid-surface.
Has anyone used the solid surface countertops sold by Formica?
re: rgallag127
I am not sure I follow your concerns. The solid surface stuff from Formica is fine for vertical installation, as are the "engineered quartz", and even granite/other natural stone, so long as the correct thickness is available and the substrate is sound. You can create a cantilevered bar/eating surface, but you may need to build a sub-structure of wood with appropriate supports/brackets, as is it not normal screw into and countertop surface. While the weight of granite can be greater an equal thickness of solid surface, it is often possible to use an overlay thickness. This may limit your options for edge treatments.
Are you going to re-use the existing cabinets? If not I can think of several ways to incorporate fully supported bar/eating area into a new design.
There are professional kitchen designers that may be better suited to these challenges than just a contractor.-
re: renov8r
Yes, we plan to use the existing cabinets. The challenge is that we want a multi-level island, where one side is standard counter height, and the other two sides are lower so that we can use regular sized chairs and not bar stools. We do not want to use bar stools. The current countertop is plain old white formica, and even that is wobbly if you put pressure on it (as kids tend to do!) I don't want legs or any other free-standing support, kids tend to bang into them and bruise their knees! So we need something that is light enough to be able to be supported just from the side of the cabinet, either using screws or brackets or steel rods or something. The overlay is an interesting option, I will have to look into it.
So I heard a lot of good and bad about Corian on this thread, and it seems to me that the Formica Solid-Surface is basically the same. I wanted to know if anyone has any experience specifically with this material?
re: rgallag127
I have done projects that use the solid surface Formica brand. It is a good product, they have several price points/ design series, all of which look like solid surface to me (some are nice, with a good range of colors, but I don't think anyone would mistake them for natural stone...). If you have found a color that you like that may be your best option. I know that they DO make a 1/4" thickeness for verticals & a 1/2" for overlays, as well as 3/4 for overhangs up to one foot -- your table height eating bar is probably deeper than that and you'd need to decide if the wobble is bad enough to justify rebuilding -- without seeing how the old cabinets are built I can't speculate on whether internal reinforcement is possible.
If you are planning to resuse the existing cabinets it does get tricky to try and incorporate a "table height" eating bar, as you've noted this can get a lot of weight put on them. Building from scratch it would be possible to hide all the support -- heck I saw a setup where the homeowner wanted a concrete countertop /cantilevered eating bar and used a welded structural steel support behind it all (steel was not needed just for support, as the concrete is not all that much more dense than stone, but the project lent itself to the industrial overkill...).
It MAY be possible to build some compact yet hefty brackets to support the countertop, the load would need to be transfered into/down the cabinet structure. The problem is that while it an engineer COULD probably design something that would work AND be very compact (by using regular wood, laminated beams, or steel) the complexity/cost might exceed the whole rest of the project. Even if "money were no object" this would still take up SOME room and I can understand your concerns about legs ad knees.
Reminds me of a story -- I did a project a while ago for a homeowner who was a professional structural engineer. It was as garage remodel/ conversion to family room and he wanted cathederal ceilings. He sketched out several very interesting solutions for eliminating the existing ceiling framing and utilizing super strength alloys and/or suspension cables. It would have been unbelievably expensive (like over $700 a sq foot, given the small size of the garage), and we eventually just reframed with lumber. He was very happy that he had not spent so much on the structure that he could actually furnish the room with A/V equipment instead of only having a very pretty very empty 'box". Sometimes solutions that are "possible" are just too expensive to achieve ...
re: renov8r
So we're back to square one. We went to Home Depot just to look and feel for ourselves, and of course we fell in love with the granite over the Corian big time. So we asked the Home Depot rep about the table-height multi-level countertop, and she said that as long as there were enough brackets to support it, they could definitely do a 15-inch eating area. I could live with brackets (not legs thought), and we're even reconsidering and thinking of going one-level, we liked the stone so much more over the Corian.
The question now is, has anyone heard of the new brand of granite Home Depot is selling "Stonemark"? Apparently it's already been sealed with "PermaShield" and therefore has a 15-year warranty against staining and doesn't need to be sealed.
re: rgallag127
We built a home and splurged and put granite countertops in our kitchen(undermount extra deep double sinks). We LOVE it. I roll our pastries and pizza dough on it. I use a cutting boards for cutting. Clean up is uber easy and it is always a cool temp. We put hot pans directly on our breakfast counter and eat from there sometimes. Baking sheets go on there right from the oven. I would do it again in a heartbeat. I can't believe about the stains since we entertain constantly and people spill wine, tomato sauce, puddings, etc. Sometimes I have cleaned it the next day and no problem at all. Also, I have spilled olive oil on it and it stains, but after a week if becomes fully absorbed and it doesn't show any longer. I love the granite - can you tell?
re: itryalot
Overhangs are easily done in solid surface, there is a one inch space underneath, small steel square tubing is added, siliconed in place, and it will hold fine. Fabrication manuals cover this, it is common.
Stone mark is a scam, read the fine print on what they actual do when things go south.
Formica is fine material, but chech with your local fabricator for any warranty issues that were not taken care of. The distributor has a big say in how well these things are handled. I don't recomend Formica here due to some issues like this, nationally the brand is a good one.
Quartz comes in sheets and can not be formed into a intergrated splash, that can be done with solid surface or laminate.
White rings on Corian is caused by a water molecule in ATH that is released when too much heat is applied. The rings should sand away, sand a large area to blend. Use 120 grit, then 150, 220, 320 and a scotch brite pad to match the surrounding finish. Might have to scotchbrite the entire top to match.
Do not put hot pots on any hard surface, soap stone being an exception.
I love the feel of soap stone, but it is quite soft and when you work it, you have to assume it has asbestos fibers in it. I wonder about that being a future issue. We sell it along with granite, quartz, laminate and solid surface.
Drawbacks on quartz.... UV damage, can scratch, not heat resistent, not stain resistent (check the warranty or care and cleaning instructions to see what to watch out for), a technical bulletin was sent out saying to watch out for Glade Scented Candles, the little AA AAA battery chargers can damage quartz backsplashes, I have had consumers call about oven cleaner damge.
Very difficult to repair, can be done, but expensive.....
Avonite, three lines, acrylic, filled polyester and 100% polyester if you want some very cool counters.
Mystera has gone down the tubes, One company, Newal Coach, has ten million dollar custom buses coming back to replace all the Mystera. Color fade, yellowing, texture change, evidence of curing issues. We no longer recomend it, but if someone just loves it, it isn't any more risky than granite.
re: Carpentershop
I researched countertops thoroughly a few years back when designing our new kitchen from scratch. (With a PhD in materials engineering and many in-person examinations of various products, I tend to look beyond marketing hype.) In a nutshell, I would recommend granite, followed by silestone or other stone- or quartz-based synthetic, and would recommend against Corian or any other 'solid surface.' Corian will scratch, dull, discolor, and it is impossible to get the whole thing looking good.
Some granites (like ubatuba) are less porous than others and don't require sealing at all. A 'busy' granite won't show any minor discolorations that may eventually occur. WRT weight, if there's enough surface area, granite can be installed solidly with a decent overhang. For example, we have a 10' bartop (2 pcs) with about 12" overhang and only about 10" over the countertops to anchor it.A wooden frame with many cross-members was installed (large surface area) and the countertop glued onto it No brackets, and it is as solid as a rock. Of course, you need 3cnm granite (which I would recommend for all countertops--the thin 2cm stuff may not support undermount sinks, can't be used for large overhangs, and requires a fake thick edge glued onto it.)
We also have a cabinet-depth island (table height, about 5' by 3.5' overall, 24" cabs) with a 15" overhang on one side. No brackets. No problem.
re: KimG
I also looked at Silestone (and the others, and real granite). The only thing I will tell you was when I mentioned Silestone at the granite places (which also carried Caesarstone, Zodiaq, etc.) they said that THEY cut those, but Silestone insists it be cut at their factory wherever it is and shipped. So if there is a mistake in the cutting/dimensions of all your cutouts (sink, cooktop, just general sizing) then it's a pain to get it redone, whereas if they cut it right on the local premises they have more control/responsibility/easier to fix. Silestone around here is more or less relegated to the Orange place. Maybe they simply couldn't compete on price so the local granite places preferred to take a pass on it for that reason.
re: Eujeanie
We're remodelling our kitchen. I'm picking out my Granite, and have decided on either Black Galaxi (tiny gold pieces in it), or Black Ice (larger bluish Mica pieces in it). I know it's a matter of taste, but I would really like someone's opinion who has seen one or both of these in a kitchen. Which one did you like best and why? Also should I go with shiny finish?
Your opinion is appreciated!!!!
re: Carpentershop
carpentershop - can you elaborate more on Mystera going down the tubes? I am trying to find substitute for (real) white carrara marble and Mystera's "Glacier" seemed to look pretty close when I saw it yesterday. Since it is a newish product, I am wary and want to know all I can. My second choice is Caesarstone Misty Carerra but that has a much more light gray background than the Mystera did.
Any help/comments from you or others is most appreciated.
I have both corian and granite. I love the granite and in 10 years have had nothing done to it but to clean it with a sponge. It looks brand new. The corian has many scratches and looks old. I didn't like the glare of the granite under the lights and had corian put there. I wasn't told I had a choice of finishes. Go with the granite.
re: lmstanley
Ten years ago Corian was still pretty new to most consumers, and granite was far less widely available -- and certainly the honed finish was very much less popular than polished. Fashion was and is a big part of that, but part of it is due to funtional issues with the sealers that were available.
As technology changes there are impacts on what finishes are popular/available/common.
Similarly anything that you choose has some probabity of looking dated vs timeless. As a general rule of thumb I tell clients that stuff that is VERY VERY far away from the mainstream with regard to fashion and technology is more at risk of looked out of date, but things that are part of a "Huge trend" (even if it is solidly mainstream) is almost guaranteed to be a quickly forgetten fad -- to avoid either fate I sometimes have to remind folks to tone down extreme ideas whie still trying to put in some personal touches.
re: n43cro
the shiny look comes from the finishing of the stone, and you can have granite in dull (very honed) to highly polished, depends on the look you want.
Also look into marble. there are soft marbles and hard marbles. Jfood has a hard marble in the center island with a honed finish. Love it
Best advice is to choose your slabs yourself at the stone yard.
re: drmoze
well doc, jfood vehemently disagrees. he has marble in the kitchen and it has worn like iron. spills wipe up from grease to tomato to well everything since the cooktop in embedded in the marble.
jfood is not reading any report he is reporting.
It "may be OK" for bathroom. Come on give jfood a break. it is PERFECT for bathrooms. what doesn't the doctor like about marblein the bath?
I'm redoing my counters as well. I've decided on quartz - probably silestone. I love the look of granite, but I do a lot of cooking and it is not recommended at all for food prep. I could tell you some stories.......you will never find granite in a commerical kitchen. Anyway my question regards the backsplash especially behind the stove. I know tile is common, but I'm concerned about the grout being stained by splashing - say spaghetti sauce etc. I like the look of the stainless backspash, but again, how easy will it be to keep clean. Does anyone have any ideas?
re: chris86
Many of the quartz composites can be formed right into the countertop. While this is most common with the 3-4 inch integrated backsplash you could also cover the entire the space under between the cabinets and counters this way.
Tile is a bit more to keep looking clean, but most installers recommend treating the grout with a sealer, and that prevents most splashes from staining on a vertical surface
While stainless is immune from food based splashes, it is not a prefect surface either - it will exhibit a greasy film from cooking, it shows finger prints, carelessness in cleaning can scratch it, and some folks go crazy trying to match the grain of stainless from different sources. It is no harder to clean than windows, but what is the classic line that housekeepers tell their clients...
re: renov8r
Thanks for the input. In talking with the various dealers, they pointed out that since the Silestone has a fair amount of thickness, it will stick out somewhat where he wall meets the backsplash (where the refrig. meets the counter and where the end of the cabinet and counter meets the entry wall into the kitchen). They seemed to feel it was a more expensive way to accomplish the effect I need. Also, being so heavy, would that be a problem with attaching it to the wall?
re: chris86
I forgot to ask, has anyone heard of a product called Syn Mar. It is supposed to be a mixture of quartz and polymer resin. They have products resembling granite, quartz and marble. I came across their website, but I haven't come across anyone who has actually had this installed.
re: chris86
I have seen entire shower stalls covered in the quartz composites, weight is not an issue - the cost might be and the corner details are a factor that might be. The cheapest way do a back splash is probably to use a cheap tile, but there are tiles that cost far more than the quartz composites, and almost every tile backsplash involves some fairly lengthy installation due to cutting and the awkward position (which means costy labor charges unless you are DIYer...). And SS ain't cheap either. If you are like 98% of folks who remodel their kitchen you'll go for what you are hapiest with in terms of looks, functionality and cost (or you'll be part of that 2% that is never happy).
Have you ever heard of Mystera? It's a synthetic, solid surface like Corian, but much prettier...it looks like hand-poured marble. I used it in my coffee shop, and it looks great, and it's NSF approved. It's long-lasting, scratches can be rubbed out with a green scouring pad, and very heat-resistant. As far as price, it's cheaper than granite and marble, and you never have to recondition it.
re: ap616
Uh, ap616, thanks for the plug for Mystera. We sell that one as well, but it will have to be touched up from time to time, especially the darker colors. I don't know about that heat resistant either. We are a certified Mystera shop, but overselling a material doesn't help anyone, least of all Mystera. It is pretty, scratches can be indeed buffed out.
It is a good product, some colors that are really great, will even convince the granite die hards to look twice. Waste factor is a bit more on some of the veined products, but a good fabricator can deal with it.
re: loli
Hi I have avonite on my kitchen counters, backsplashes and also had a huge kitchen table made of avonite. It still looks brand new! I put hot pots directly on it with no damage. My Kitchen is over 20yrs old and looks new, I was ahead of my time with the avonite I chose it looks like granite and is bullnosed. I love it and would recommend it to anyone who wants a high end look without the trouble of sealing it or doing anything but regular cleaning.
re: ap616
Are there any (functional) drawbacks to quartz, aside from the subjective ones concerning colours and patterns? So far have not had any problems or complaints over my Hanstone counter. As a choice that was made that will be around longer than me, I think it was money well spent.
I've had Corian in my house for 18 years and it looks perfect! Scratches sand right off. I think granite is a fad that'll pass same as any other. A friend of mine didn't have hers re-sealed properly and had to have a piece replaced, and they couldn't match it perfectly so she has a very expensive countertop that doesn't look very nice. She is getting Corian at her beach house now.
re: littlericky10
In some sense everything is a fad -- I just got a bid package that specifies metal edged high pressure laminate (aka Formica). Gonna be a 50's retro theme. Hope they really like that yucky brown goo that is build up too! If you think unsealed granite is hard to patch/fix, you should see the nightmare that I saw earlier this month for an unsealed concrete top.
Everything has trade offs. I like the fact that there are so many options, and I generally respect whatever choice a customer wants. There are certain products that have performed poorly for me or other customers, and I request that clients sign off on these limitations.
Corian is a fairly nice product. Some people really love it, while others prefer the characteristics of other products.
I think that is StarTrek science came to life and we could build countertops out of photons/force fields some people would think that was a fad too...
Interesting thread about choices of countertops. We sell all three types, granite, quartz and solid surface (corian type).
Granite always wins the beauty contest, till one of the polyester colors gets noticed. About half of the visitors at a home and garden show will think it is granite. Good granite can be a good countertop, if you do your homework on the types available and are carefull who you get to fabricate it. Heat however will ocasionally crack a granite top, the local big box stores have placards warning of this, and it has been our experience as well, so we warn customers not to put hot pots on their top. Usually the crack occurs as the top cools. Some have posted on the heat sink abilities of stone, which causes it to expand locally while the rest of the top isn't moving. This sets up stresses that will cause a crack on occasion, especially in highly fissured materials.
Some mentioned the resined products, which have acrylic resins, the same as in solid surface, spread on one or both sides. Usually this is done to bring an unsuitable stone to market, because of cheapness or beauty of that particular vein. One thing to watch out for is an unscruplous fabricator staining the edge of the resined tops in an attempt to get it to match the rest of the stone. It does wear off with time.
Make sure your granite is rodded both front and back of all cutouts. This isn't to prevent cracking, it won't, it is to hold the peices together so the installer can patch it.
One in five tops gets broken prior to installation, one of the reasons why no one will warranty granite tops.Make sure they use sink clips, not just epoxy for the sink mounting. The cross members are even better, but the clips are still installed by the best shops.
Staining, so many stones, so many degrees of tolerance by customers and so many standards of neatness by homeowners and cooks. We recomend that customers save the beautiful granite top for when the kids leave home. Too many pizza boxes get left out with kids in the house, peanut butter, anything with an oil base will mark the tops if it is not quickly wiped up. Most reputable stone sites will tell you this on their care and maintance pages.
Two of the most notorious warnings about granite are radon and bacteria. Some say the radon is over rated, and it is just about what you would get from watching tv for eight hours, or sitting at a computer screen for the same, but the Chinese govt has classified granite into three grades, A, B, and C. The A grade have a small enough amount to put inside homes, the B's have more radioactivity and can be used in public buildings in moderation. The C grades are bad enough that they must be used only on exteriors of buildings. The Chines govt bans the export of A grade, if I remember correctly, so check the source of your granite carefully. There is a study online on Springer link if anyone is interested.
The bacteria, well that depends on who you ask. The stone industry latched onto a study done a couple of years ago by a stainless steel group that had stone ranked second in cleanability. Once you read the fine print, it actually a study of kill rates of bacteria on surfaces. Stainless and stone had higher kill rates, or worded another way, they had higher numbers of bacteria on them after being inoculated with bacteria, and when sanitized they rinsed off more dead bacteria than other surfaces.
The MIA, a stone group, redid the study in such a way that granite "won" the test, and have been publishing this everywhere. The first studiy, however left out not only solid surface (corian) but quartz surfaces, the market leaders in tops, and chose other materials that have less than eight percent market share combined. The second study also left out the market leaders of countertops. One should ask why they were left out. Also, do the math after you read the study, it would take 176 gallons of water to rinse off your countertops if you used their method, also they recomend you NOT use their sanitizing method on stone countertops.
Quartz is also not intended for hot pots, our warranty and template sheets all state this clearly, as does the manufacture manuals and warranty sheets. It will also scratch, which are near impossible to remove with out spending a half a day of extremly high priced labor . That said it performs better with kids in the home than granite. It can be damaged by UV, which is not considered a warranty defect, it is expected to change color somewhat as it ages, but watch for putting things like toasters or cannister sets long term, it will leave light or dark spots depending on color. Also listed on the manufacuter sheets is oil, inks, permant markers and high pH cleaners or things like scotchbite or Comet. It is composed of about 35% solid surface with stone chips imbeded.
solid surface is what I put in my kitchen. we work six days a week in the high end kitchen business with little free time for maintence. Sinks five or six years ago could crack if exposed to ice and boiling water at the same time, but they fixed that about four years ago and now warranty it not to occur. They can be repaired in place or replaced easily. Same with scratches. In six years of selling tops, we have polished out six scratches in solid surface tops, all but one were prior to the homeowner moving into the home. Granite and quartz, well we do not offer scratch removal as it is impractical at best, solid surface scratch removal is free since it takes so little time.
One of the best things about solid surface is it's ability to stay sanitary. It and quartz are approved by the National Sanitation Foundation for food prep, one reason why you won't see too many granite tops in a fast food store. All materials in solid surface are FDA approved, don't believe that quartz or engineered stone can claim that since quartz chips are not FDA approved.
I belong to a group of countertop fabricators that fab and sell all types of materials. We are in the middle of a study on bacteria and materials that focuses on what is left after cleaning, since in our minds that is the important thing. True bacteria and stainless will allow more bacteria to grow, but that is a negative not a positive. So far, the tests have shown that granite ranks poorly if the sealer is worn, but even with new sealer it retains and allows far more growth of bacteria than solid surface. Even after sanitizing, the results show that solid surface was NSF approved for a reason.
Here is a link that supports this, done by microbiology experts. Note the difference between granite and polypropolyne when measured with different strains of bacteria, but the important one was raw chicken juice which the granite soaked up three times more than any other surface. The MUSC variety was cultured from chicken breast meat, and is far less dangerous than the EMB cultured from juice.
Good luck on your choice of tops, if cared for and mantained, you will enjoy any of them. Be sure and seal granite often and sanitize even more often.
re: jean larosa
Jean, sorry for the late reply, but get your sealer from the place that you bought your granite from. You don't want to mix the water based sealers and the solvent based sealers. If in doubt, use acetone to strip the old sealer before you reseal.
The big box stores are all about margin on what they sell, not what is best. Your stone fabricator will have a vested interest in selling you a good sealer.
That said, there is one that has been a favorite with many shops. It is called Miracle 511 sealer / enhancer. Another called STT SB is showing quite a following, but it is new. I like the 511 personally, but the new one might do just as well.
Do your research on your type of granite, go to a good stone site first and ask if they recomend sealer on it. Thing you have to watch for is the double talk that many are good at. Some stone guys think that telling people that granite needs sealing is bad for business, others are more interested in making sure they get no callbacks on stains, so they will recomend the sealant.
You can also overseal which is the cause of many customer complaints on granite, people will write that every time they use their stone tops, they leave a new mark. What the real problem turns out is that they have put a coating on a harder surface, the softerof the two will get marked up easily.
Darned if you do and darned if you don't, which is why we recomend solid surface for many families. As long as you understand that granite will stain and look at it as a character mark, distressing so to speak (the rest of the world looks at it this way), can live with less than perfection on the surface, you will enjoy your granite top.
One interesting thing happened on our latest round of testing. The sealed products bred bacteria by a huge factor over unsealed granite. So much so that we are repeating the test to look for errors. Another result that was not going to be appreciated was a microban infused quartz product that performed poorly, very poorly although it grew mostly general coliform bacteria, it grew a lot of them. It will be re tested as well. So much can go wrong when you are dealing with microbiology testing, it pays to retest and be conservative.