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Town Square
McNerney recognizes local students accepted to military service academies
Original post made on Jun 7, 2011
Read the full story here Web Link posted Monday, June 6, 2011, 3:05 PM
Comments (1)
on Jun 7, 2011 at 6:31 am
The line in the story that "counselors from Monte Vista High School did not return calls for comment" is sadly typical for Monte Vista. When my kids attended that school I could never get them to return calls either. I guess they are just too busy to follow through.
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< Return To Hearing
Mr. Douglas KmiecApril 17, 2002 Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee Thank you for this invitation to appear before you to address the respective authority of the President and Congress in the present War on Terrorism. The President is constitutionally authorized as Commander in Chief to introduce troops into hostilities without prior congressional enactment. No President has ever conceded otherwise; no Congress has ever disputed this point, as even the highly controverted (and largely admonitory) War Powers Resolution necessarily concedes the President's constitutional assignment. Today, there are unprecedented terrorist dangers aimed directly at the civilian populations of our Nation and its allies. Congress shares this concern, rightly so. However, a shared concern must not become an occasion to undermine the well settled constitutional responsibility of the President. Rather, with great respect for the important deliberations of this body, Congress should direct its legislative efforts at determining how best the President can be supported with the people's resources; not how cleverly the President's military judgment can be second-guessed or hampered. The power to declare war is not a condition predicate to the duties of military self-defense imposed by the Constitution upon the President. No President from Washington onward has ever construed it to be so, and it is largely modern academic commentary that has obscured or misstated this crucial aspect of constitutional understanding. Rather, the purpose of a declaration of war is to define the international effect of military actions undertaken by direction of the President. In the present War, the Congress by joint resolution has confirmed the President's constitutional authority. That resolution, when construed together with the President's Article II power, is ample and plenary, allowing the President, together with his military, national security and homeland defense advisors, to determine the timing, scope, and appropriateness for military intervention. Congress's role is one of material support, not tactical judgment. As the representative of the people, Congress is obliged to provide this support if it determines that our lives, safety and security justify the actions being taken by the President. Of course, this appropriations-related authority is a well-considered check upon presidential action. Prudentially and practically, both the President and Congress must necessarily collaborate if wartime efforts are to succeed. No Congress should give a blank check to a President, nor is it constitutionally obligated to do so, and no President should expect one. That said, Congress oversteps its constitutionally determined role if it uses monetary conditions to usurp or impede the tactical decisions that only the President can make. The President has determined that terrorism is world wide. It exists in networks or cells of individuals driven by religious or political fanaticism and supported by an international Ultimately in our democratic republic, it is the people who either affirm or dispute the policy choices made by their President and the Congress. It will then be up to the people to decide which was the better course - that of the sword aimed at those who hate the responsible exercise of freedom or that of the purse aimed at restraining the sword in this mission. Neither the President nor the Congress can avoid making its respective judgments. Certainly, neither can (or should) use the Constitution as a cover plane for its failure to decide. The actions being taken by President Bush are well within the parameters of the authority given to him by the Constitution. I am confident that the U.S. Supreme Court would not say otherwise. Congress may decide not to support these actions with the people's money. That is its prerogative, and it is one for which it will be held accountable. The president's role The President's power to use military force to respond to terrorist and other attack is clear. Article II, Section 2 provides that the "President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the Unites Stats, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into actual Service of the United States." Beyond this, the President is fully vested with all executive power and the authority to "take care" that the laws are faithfully executed. Constitutional practice dating to our first president removes any doubt that wars were, and can be, fought without congressional authorization. During the first five years of his administration, Washington engaged in a prolonged Indian war in the Ohio Valley. This was not a small skirmish, as President Washington himself proclaimed "we are involved in an actual war!" - one, by the way, that went badly initially for the standing army in 1791. Similarly, John Adams fought a naval war with France, known as the Quasi-War that erupted in 1798 out of France's interference with our commercial relations with Britain. Congress provided the funding, and set the rules for naval engagement, but did not declare war, even as the historical record demonstrates that one was being fought. Many cases affirm the scope of the President's war power, but it is particularly well affirmed in The Prize Cases, where the Supreme Court opined that it was for Abraham Lincoln, as Commander in Chief to determine what necessary means could be used to respond to belligerents, for such questions under the Constitution, are "to be decided by [the President]." In this century, Attorney General (later Justice) Robert Jackson put the matter equally forcefully: "[The President] shall be Commander in Chief . . . . By virtue of this constitutional office he has supreme command over the land and naval forces of the country and may order them to perform such military duties as, in his opinion, are necessary or appropriate for the defense of the United States. These powers exist in times of peace as well as in time of war . . . .[T]his authority undoubtedly includes the power to dispose of troops and equipment in such manner and on such duties as best to promote the safety of the country." In writing in these terms, Attorney General Jackson was reflecting an unbroken line of undisturbed federal interpretation that properly places both the burden and authority upon the President to preserve "our territorial integrity and the protection of our foreign interests" as a matter of constitutional provision, [and not] 'the enforcement of specific acts of Congress." The framers justified this grant of authority to the President by the need for military and executive action to be taken with "secrecy and dispatch." Without the quality of what Hamilton referred to as "energy in the executive," the community would be unable to protect itself "against foreign attacks." These were not merely the sentiments of those who favored a strong national government. Thomas Jefferson, serving as George Washington's Secretary of State, observed that "[t]he transactions of business with foreign nations is executive altogether; it belongs, then, to the head of that department, except as to such portions of it as are specially submitted to the senate. [And what's more] [e]xceptions are to be construed strictly." This exercise of presidential power has been bi-partisan. For example, on August 20, 1998, President Clinton launched an air strike against terrorist activity (the African embassy bombings) traced to Osama bin Laden. The President acted without congressional authorization, and he did so for reasons that are directly applicable and similar to the present War on Terrorism: intelligence information that traced the bombings to terrorist groups that have acted against U.S. interests in the past, and suggested planning for additional attacks in the future. These groups were employing or seeking weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and dangerous weapons. As scholars have pointed out, President Clinton's actions have much in common The congress' power to declare war The Congress' power to declare war is not the power to make war, as should be obvious to every American who has lived through both Pearl Harbor and September 11. War can be made upon us. As was noted expressly in the Constitutional convention, the executive must have the power to repel sudden attacks without prior Congressional authorization. The drafters of our Constitution knew how to use precise language, and indeed, as careful scholarship has since pointed out, "[if] the Framers had wanted to require congressional consent before the initiation of military hostilities, they would have used such language." The power to declare war, rather than the power to initiate one, was a power to confirm - for international and domestic law purposes - the existence of hostilities between two sovereigns. This was how Blackstone understood the phraseology, and in historical context, how it was understood by the framers as well. In the decades leading up to constitutional drafting and ratification, declaring war meant not authorizing a proper executive response to attack, but to defining the relationship between the citizens of warring nations as to, for example, the seizure or expropriation, of assets. Even the use of the word "declare" in the context of the framing suggests not authorization, but recognition of that which pre-exists. This, for example, is the usage in the Declaration of Independence, recognizing rights that are not created by the government, but pre-exist by virtue of human creation. Professor John Yoo (now of the Office of Legal Counsel) has ably canvassed this area writing that the declare war clause was meant largely to bolster the exclusion of the individual states from the question. He summarizes the historical evidence this way: "a declaration of war was understood as what its name suggests: a declaration. Like a declaratory judgment, a declaration of war represented the judgment of Congress, acting in a [quasi-]judicial capacity (as it does in impeachments), that a state of war existed between the United States and another nation. Such a declaration could take place either before or after hostilities had commenced." If military activity could only occur upon congressional declaration, this proposition would leave most of American history unexplained, such as American intervention in Korea, Vietnam, Iran, Grenada, Libya, and Panama. Congress has declared war only five times: the War of 1812; the Mexican American War of 1848, the Spanish-American War of 1898, and World War I (1914) and World War II (1941). Some have disputed this account of the declare war clause, arguing in support of a congressional pre-condition by reference to Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 which gives Congress the power to "grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, . . ." This somewhat arcane aspect of constitutional text, however, cannot bear the weight of the claim. Letters of Marque and Reprisal are grants of authority from Congress to private citizens, not the President. Their purpose is to expressly authorize seizure and forfeiture of goods by such citizens in the context of undeclared hostilities. Without such authorization, the citizen could be treated under international law as a pirate. Occasions where one's citizens undertake hostile activity can often entangle the larger sovereignty, and therefore, it was sensible for Congress to desire to have a regulatory check upon it. Authorizing Congress to moderate or oversee private action, however, says absolutely nothing about the President's responsibilities under the Constitution. The drafters of the American Constitution knew how to express themselves. They were familiar with state constitutional provisions, such as that in South Carolina, which directly stated that the "governor and commander-in-chief shall have no power to commence war, or conclude peace' without legislative approval. Article I, Section 10 expressly prohibits states, without the consent of Congress, from keeping troops or ships of war in time of peace, or engaging in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger that delay would not be warranted. There is no parallel provision reciting that the President as commander in chief shall not, without the Consent of Congress, exercise his military responsibility. That the power to declare war is not a power of prior authorization does not leave Congress without check upon executive abuse. That check, however, is anchored in Congress' control of the purse, and, of course, impeachment. When challenged by the anti-federalists, most notably Patrick Henry, to explain how tyranny would not result unless the sword and purse were held by different governments, Madison responded that no efficient government could exist without both, but security is to be found in "that the sword and pursue are not to be given to the same member." No reference was made to the declare war clause or marque and reprisal letters. How great a role can Congress play in the funding process? Here, the historical record would suggest that Congress is as free as the people they represent. It may explore and evaluate the military mission as the President has outlined it. Congress can refuse to fund the continuation of tactical decisions that it believes unsound; Congress, however, cannot dictate a particular course of engagement or so fetter the President's judgment as to preclude its exercise. The war powers act It is facetious to suggest that the War Powers Act or Resolution [WPR] limits constitutional authority, something which it expressly proclaims not to do. (Section 8(d) of the WPR states that "nothing in the Resolution is intended to alter the constitutional authority of either the Congress or the President.") In any event, insofar as the WPR presumes to limit the extent of operations already undertaken by a president, it "makes sense only if the President may introduce troops into hostilities or potential hostilities without prior authorization by the Congress." After surveying comprehensively the large number of occasions where the President has deployed troops without legislative involvement, the Office of Legal Counsel concluded: "Our history is replete with instances of presidential uses of military force abroad in the absence of prior congressional approval.... Thus, constitutional practice over two centuries, supported by the nature of the functions exercised and by the few legal benchmarks that exist, evidences the existence of broad constitutional power." Even if the WPR could be construed to statutorily amend constitutional text (which it cannot), by its express terms the WPR acknowledges presidential power to introduce Armed Forces into hostilities as a result of an "attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces." Certainly, that was September 11th. In any event, no president has ever accepted the limiting provisions of the WPR. No president has ever formally complied with the WPR, even as Presidents have used the vehicle to accomplish consultation with Congress. For example, both the first President Bush and President Clinton sent reports to Congress that were described carefully as "consistent with the Resolution," but not pursuant to, or required by, the WPR. Congress has not sought to use the enforcement mechanism under the WPR, though it has occasionally been referenced or advocated by individual members. Of course, proponents of the WPR take a different view; a view that posits the need for specific authorization. As mentioned, this view is contrary to constitutional text, history and practice, but in the present circumstance, even this objection is superceded by Congress' own legislative action. The effect of the joint resolution If presidential power apart from congressional authorization was somehow questionable as a general matter, it is not open to doubt in the present War on Terrorism which Congress has specifically authorized. (S.J. Res. 25) [hereinafter "force resolution"]. The force resolution recites that "the President has authority under the Constitution to take action to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism." While this recital might be argued to concede that the force resolution, itself, was unnecessary, the better construction is one that the force resolution acknowledges the contending views over the legality of the WPR and removes all doubt in the present instance. The President thus has full legal authority with respect to either responding with "all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons [the President] determines planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons," and with respect to the steps necessary "to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons." In my judgment, the force resolution must be read consistently with the President's authority. Some have commented that it relates only to "individuals, groups or states that [are] determined to have links to the September 11 attacks." Yet, Congress clearly intended to authorize the President to address terrorist threats of the future, and therefore, it is highly reasonable to construe the linkage to "nations, organizations, or persons" broadly, especially as we are practically discovering that the terrorist network has manifold capacity to direct and aid cells in multiple guises and distant parts of the world. Whether a war is properly waged is not for the Courts The Supreme Court has consistently avoided passing upon the legality of particular military engagements, such as Vietnam and Korea. Lower federal courts have also regularly dismissed these matters as political questions and non-justiciable. The Persian Gulf War yielded two variants on this theme in Dellums v. Bush and Ange v. Bush. Unusually, in Dellums, the trial court decided that Congress possessed sole authority to declare war, and that troop movements authorized without congressional approval by the first President Bush might be challenged if a majority of Congress or the Congress in its entirety joined the litigation. That was not to be, and the suit was dismissed as unripe. By contrast, and far more in keeping with past decision, Judge Lamberth decided in Ange, the parallel case brought by a deployed member of the military, that determining whether the President had exceeded either his constitutional authority or violated the WPR was a nonjusticiable political question. The judicial branch has consistently found any disagreement between the President and Congress to be a political question, not susceptible to judicial resolution. Common sense and the absence of public measures or standards of judgment readily explains why courts would abstain. Neither the President nor Congress have that luxury. Both must make their constitutionally separate choices. A President who endangers the lives of his military unnecessarily (or for a purpose that is contrary to the first principles in the Declaration of Independence and implemented by the Constitution) or a Congress that obdurately refuses to support those engaged in necessary combat will be accountable to the people. Conclusion - Does the war on terrorism change the constitutional order? The short answer is, no. Yet, as General Joulwan, the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, reflected before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (February 7, 2002): "we are at war. But it is a different war than those we fought in the past. There are no front lines. The enemy is dispersed and operates in small cells. The underpinnings of this threat are in its religious radicalism and its hatred of the United States and the civilization that embraces freedom, tolerance and human dignity. It is an enemy willing to commit suicide of its young to achieve it s aims and with little regard for human life. While the enemy may be small in number it would be wrong to underestimate the threat - or the depth of their convictions." Samuel Berger, former National Security Advisor, echoed the same sentiment at the same hearing: "we must continue to take down al Qaeda cells, and hunt down al Qaeda operatives elsewhere - in Asia, Europe, Africa, here and elsewhere in this Hemisphere. Disruption will be an ongoing enterprise - a priority that will require international intelligence, law enforcement and military cooperation for the foreseeable future. These cells of fanatics will reconstitute themselves. We must treat this as a chronic illness that must be aggressively managed, while never assuming it has been completely cured." A dispersed enemy needing to be constantly addressed and combated is ill-met by a historically mistaken, if mistakenly commonplace, understanding of the declare war clause. Our national interests are equally ill-served by a wooden interpretation of a likely unconstitutional war powers resolution that even when enacted largely accommodated conventional warfare or deployments on the scale of World War II, rather than the needed (and often covert) responses to the smaller, yet more insidious and diffused nature of modern terrorism. From 1975 through October 2001, Presidents - without conceding the constitutional validity of the WPR - submitted some 92 reports under the Resolution. In the same period, there were no declarations of war. One can argue that the resolution has fostered dialogue between the legislative and executive departments. So long as that dialog did not compromise classified information or strategy and facilitated Congress' appropriations role in war making, constitutional purposes were well served. Yet, the primary infirmity of the resolution lies in its faulty assumption: namely, that the Constitution envisions a "collective judgment" on the introduction of armed forces. Section 2. It does not. It envisions a President capable of responding with energy and dispatch to immediate threat, and a Congress that can deliberate on the actions already taken, and through judicious resource choices, influence others. Congress, itself, recognized this in Section 3, when it modified the statutory consultation to "in every possible instance" and in Section 4 when it admits the possibility of presidential deployment without advance reporting and only reporting "within 48 hours, in the absence of a declaration of war or congressional authorization." Wisely, Congress by its September 2001 force resolution has authorized the President to respond to the terrorist threat, as it exists - dispersed, chronic and global. In my judgment, the force resolution fully satisfies Section 5(b)(1) of the WPR and therefore exempts the President's deployment from termination by Congress under the controversial time clock set-out in the WPR. Section 5(c)'s provision for termination by concurrent resolution is also unconstitutional under Supreme Court precedent. INS v. Chadha. While Congress has attempted to address the gap created by the decision in Chadha which held legislative veto devices to be unconstitutional, other far more serious constitutional questions would be raised if the subsequent 1983 amendment to section 601(b) of the International Security and Arms Control Act of 1976 (P.L. 94-329) fixing the WPR legislative veto failing is construed to empower Congress to countermand the President's military judgment and "direct" the withdrawal of troops. As suggested above, Congress properly speaks in its allocation of funds; the Constitution does not envision that Congress would determine the deployment of troops or related law enforcement and intelligence personnel - that is for the President. |

subset: commoncrawl


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Quick Facts
- NAME: Ruth Brown
- OCCUPATION: Theater Actress, Singer
- BIRTH DATE: January 12, 1928
- DEATH DATE: November 17, 2006
- PLACE OF BIRTH: Portsmouth, Virginia
- PLACE OF DEATH: Henderson, Nevada
- Maiden Name: Ruth Weston
- Nickname: "The Girl With a Tear in Her Voice"
- Nickname: "Miss Rhythm"
- AKA: Ruth Brown
Best Known For
Rhythm and blues singer Ruth Brown signed with Atlantic Records at a young age and recorded a number of hit songs throughout the 1950s.
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Answer questions and see how you rank against other players.
Play NowRuth Brown. (2014). The Biography Channel website. Retrieved 01:39, Mar 12, 2014, from http://www.biography.com/people/ruth-brown-17172326.
Ruth Brown. [Internet]. 2014. The Biography Channel website. Available from: http://www.biography.com/people/ruth-brown-17172326 [Accessed 12 Mar 2014].
"Ruth Brown." 2014. The Biography Channel website. Mar 12 2014, 01:39 http://www.biography.com/people/ruth-brown-17172326.
"Ruth Brown," The Biography Channel website, 2014, http://www.biography.com/people/ruth-brown-17172326 [accessed Mar 12, 2014].
"Ruth Brown," The Biography Channel website, http://www.biography.com/people/ruth-brown-17172326 (accessed Mar 12, 2014).
Ruth Brown [Internet]. The Biography Channel website; 2014 [cited 2014 Mar 12] Available from: http://www.biography.com/people/ruth-brown-17172326.
Ruth Brown, http://www.biography.com/people/ruth-brown-17172326 (last visited Mar 12, 2014).
Ruth Brown. The Biography Channel website. 2014. Available at: http://www.biography.com/people/ruth-brown-17172326. Accessed Mar 12, 2014.
Born in Portsmouth, Virginia, on January 12, 1928, singer Ruth Brown signed with Atlantic Records at a young age and recorded a number of hit R&B songs throughout the 1950s, including "I'll Wait for You," "I Know," "5-10-15 Hours," and "Mambo Baby." She went on to have a successful theater career later in life.
"I didn't want to learn to read no note. I knew I could sing it. I woke up one morning and I could sing."
"I could pick a good song, but I sure couldn't pick a man."
Early Life
The singer known as "Miss Rhythm," Ruth Brown, was born Ruth Weston on January 12, 1928, in Portsmouth, Virginia. The oldest of seven children, her father was the choir director at the local Emmanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church. Brown made her debut in the church choir at the age of 4.
Despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that her father was a choral instructor, Brown rebelled against church music and all formal musical training. She preferred the pop songs she heard on the radio to the music she sang at church, and stubbornly refused to learn to read music. "In school we had music classes, but I ducked them," Brown later recalled. "They were just a little too slow. I didn't want to learn to read no note. I knew I could sing it. I woke up one morning and I could sing."
During her childhood, Brown and her siblings spent their summers at their grandmother's farm in North Carolina, where they worked all summer picking cotton in the fields. "That made me the strong woman I am," she said. Brown was a mischievous teenager, telling her parents she was going to choir practice but actually sneaking out to sing for soldiers at USO clubs. It was through her clandestine singing career that she met and fell in love with a sailor and trumpeter named Jimmy Brown. Knowing that her parents would disapprove of their relationship, not to mention her secret USO performances, Brown (just 17) and her new boyfriend ran away to Detroit, Michigan, in 1945 with hopes of making it together as performers. They married shortly thereafter, but Brown would later discover that Jimmy was already married. Their marriage was legally void. (By the time Brown learned of her husband's previous marriage, she had already developed a reputation under his surname, so she kept the name Ruth Brown as a stage name for the rest of her life.)
In Detroit, Brown landed a gig singing at the Frolic Bar and it was there that she was spotted by the famous bandleader and talent scout Lucky Millinder, who recruited her as a vocalist for his orchestra. "I could hardly believe my luck," Brown remembered. "I was joining a group with a bunch of hit records to its name. I really felt the big time was beckoning." However, after a performance one night at a Washington, D.C. nightclub, Millinder spotted Brown carrying a tray of Cokes to her fellow band members. Furious that his star singer would degrade herself—and by association, him—by acting like a waitress, Millinder fired her on the spot and refused to give her a ride back to Detroit.
Record Deal
Stranded in D.C., Brown had a chance encounter with Blanche Calloway, the sister of the famous bandleader Cab Calloway and the owner of Crystal Caverns nightclub.
profile name: Ruth Brown profile occupation:
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Included In These Groups
Foremothers of Rock
In the 1920s, women like Ma Rainey and Bessie Smith were the first—and for a while, the only—artists to record the blues. American women of this era made great strides toward gaining equality and basic human rights for themselves and others in society, including attaining the right to vote and working toward social justice. The 20th century was a wide-open opportunity for women to embrace the modern world, outside of the traditional bounds of the home.
Foremothers of Rock 10 people in this group
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In the absence of instruction to guide us, the average church member is either so cold to psychology that they deem it all bunk and so refuse heed any of it, or on the other hand are so warmed by it that they soak it in with little to no questions asked. I'm advocating a middle ground that is willing to admit that psychology makes some very keen observations about people and why they tick, and yet I'm very cautious and suspicious when their conclusions conflict with or down play Scripture.
If we are too hot towards everything we learn in psychology we become mystified by how accurate they are in describing us, down to the reasons why we wear certain colors. Psychology is definitely into the minor dirty details of life, and as such, really give off a vibe that they know you, and so you can trust them to have the answers. Secular psychologist give the appearance that they hold all the cards in their arena and are on the cutting edge of answers the Bible and your pastor don't and cannot address. What this can look like on the ground is if someone is struggling with a diagnosis of Bi-Polar and comes to the church and because psychology is taken at face value, the person it deemed to need clinical and possibly professional medical care.


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On top of the current, whopping one pound black angus burger, General Manager David Noreen says the restaurant is looking to put out a new signature burger, tentatively called "the Casablanca." It will feature an 8 oz. patty on a croissant bun with a slice of blue cheese.
Bogart's Named Best Burger
We asked who makes the best burger in town and you voted Bogart's number one.
+ Leave a Comment
April 08, 2012 at 01:45 AM
Maybe they are good for burgers but one time i had a steak with a side order of mushrooms. The mushrooms came in a tiny bowl and for pretty much canned mushrooms reheated in the microwave. Terrible. 10 pieces of mushrooms soaked in water without any taste/flavor whatsoever. What about doing some cooking? Sauteed to remove the water, add some garlic, parley, butter.. Not difficult.
April 08, 2012 at 04:01 AM
Shussbar, did I miss something? I thought this was about burgers, not how you think they should cook mushrooms.
April 09, 2012 at 02:18 PM
Sure. It is also about Bogarts. The original thread on burgers is here. http://homewood-flossmoor.patch.com/articles/vote-who-has-the-best-burger
And the first message talks about onion soup :-) . And why is it such a big deal anyway.
April 10, 2012 at 05:29 PM
I ordered a burger cooked "medium" at Bogarts. It mooed as I bit into it. The center was ice cold. I asked for it to be cooked a little longer. It came back like a brick, and a very nasty look on the server's face.
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Brides for a Cause Charity Wedding Dress Sale on November 1-3 in San FranciscoBrides for a CauseFriday, November 1, 2013 at 6:00 PM - Sunday, November 3, 2013 at 4:00 PM (PDT)San Francisco, CA |
Event Details
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Brides for a Cause is a commercial fundraiser. We collect and resell donated wedding dresses to raise funds for charity. We are partnered with Wish Upon A Wedding, a non profit organization that provides free weddings for couples in need. 50% off all proceeds go directly to the charity. Find your dream dress and help make weddings come true for deserving individuals. Visit our boutique in Portland or visit us "on the road!" We'll be making stops in select cities!


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Hinkley Lighting Cascade Collection
When selecting an outdoor lighting fixture, you should check out the items in the Hinkley Lighting Cascade Collection. These lights range in sizes, depending on the area that you want to illuminate. The sconces come in bronze, titanium, or satin black finish, each with a clear etched organic rain glass shade. The shape is unique and provides incandescent light.
Hinkley - Cascade Outdoor Sconce
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Hinkley - Cascade Outdoor Sconce
Price From: $209.00


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The FOS Project Band featuring The Chuck Lunch Horns has provided professional live entertainment since 2007 - 2 female vocalist, and 3 male vocalist. Featured artist in the July 2011 The Current Mag.
I can play good swinging tempos for dance sets or quiet mood music conducive to conversation at receptions.
I am a pianist with over 30 years experience, including over 20 years in music ministry. Specializing in Catholic church music.
A Flute, Clarinet, Piano trio available to play classical, light jazz, and pop music for your wedding, reception, rehearsal dinner, or any other event you may need a small moderately priced group for.
Another Fine Mess is a Dance Band who plays mainly 80's music. We have a large music list and will learn music specifically for your wedding with enough lead time. We have a full PA including lights. Before and after the band plays you can use our PA for announcements and muusic.
Music ties your wedding together, and I am happy to accommodate your requests! In addition to your wedding ceremony, live music could compliment your wedding shower, rehearsal dinner, cocktail hour, and reception. I am a professional flutist based in the Northwest Arkansas area.
The Luda Jazz Band begin playing together in 2006, playing the jazz music hot spots in Northwest Arkansas. The Luda Jazz band is based out of Fayetteville.
The trio is a regional band that is based in Northwest Arkansas, in the Fayetteville. The Thomas Allison Trio is the premier group for any size event.
Jack Mitchell Bands offers bands of varying sizes to fit your needs and budgets, from combos to our full 16 piece big band for your wedding day.
Jill is available for performances at wedding ceremonies, receptions, church services, concerts and other events.
I am an accomplished piano accompanist with a degree in music education. I will play classical piano music for your engagement party, rehearsal dinner, or wedding ceremony.
Are you in charge of entertainment for an event? The ASO possesses a wealth of talent to put together the perfect ensemble for your wedding, party, or reception.
The band has an enormous repertoire of music and features veteran Arkansas musicians who don't take themselves too seriously, and who know how to have a great deal of fun.
Hot Springs' Four Seasons String Quartet comprises over a century of professional experience to create the perfect musical setting for rehearsal dinners, wedding ceremonies and receptions.
Whether you need the perfect live music for a reception or a party, Porter-Jones Entertainment can find the right musicians for the job, at the right price.
Tragikly White has earned a reputation as the south's premier party band. They always deliver a top-notch show!
Only Tommy Henderson Entertainment can offer you such a wide range of band services for all occasions.
Brenda & Ellis have satisfied more than 200 wedding parties. We can entertain all of your attendees, from a whisper of jazz at the beginning of the reception to full-on party mode when you're ready.
The harp is the most ancient of stringed instruments; With its rare beauty and timeless Connie Playing Harp at Wedding sound, Connie's hand-carved, Concert Grand Harp can add an elegant background of music for weddings or any occasion in the Kansas City and surrounding areas.
Whatever your need, STL Event Pianist can add that musical touch to your special event. Specializing in weddings (ceremony music and cocktail hour entertainment), corporate events, holiday parties and much more.


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Special Offers see all
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More copies of this ISBNObsessed with Star Wars: Test Your Knowledge of a Galaxy Far, Far Away with Otherby Benjamin Harper
Synopses & ReviewsSynopsis:Even the most die-hard Star Wars fans will find themselves challenged by this entertaining new approach to the details of the saga. This fourth volume in the popular, addictive Obsessed With series again includes an innovative scoring module right in the book, so a player can select questions by number or at random and keep score. With 2,500 original questions covering little known facts, entertaining quotes, and tough trivia from all six episodes, Obsessed With Star Wars will have readers dominating the galaxy in no time.
What Our Readers Are SayingBe the first to add a comment for a chance to win!Product Details
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text: 02/05/2014 UTEP Soccer Announces 2014 Recruiting ClassMiners Add Seven For 2014 Season 12/09/2013 UTEP Soccer Reaps Academic & Athletic AccoladesMiners Equal School Standard With Three All Region 11/22/2013 Miners Find Redemption In 2013UTEP Soccer Wraps Season At 12-6-3 11/06/2013 UTEP Falls To ECU In OT, 1-0, In C-USA QuarterfinalsMiners Conclude Campaign At 12-6-3 11/05/2013 UTEP Soccer To Face East Carolina In Quarterfinals Of 2013 C-USA ChampionshipsWinner Will Play Tulsa Or Colorado College In C-USA Semifinals Friday 11/04/2012 Miner Sports Weekly Episode 5 (2012)Hosts Jon Teicher and Julie Levesque interview head soccer coach Kevin Cross, softball's Kayleigh Walts and Colleen Hohman and men's basketball Director of Operations, Keith Wilkinson. 10/01/2012 Miner Sports Weekly Episode 1 (2012)Hosts Jon Teicher and Julie Levesque interview head volleyball coach Ken Murphy, football running back Nathan Jeffery and head soccer coach Kevin Cross. 11/01/2011 Cross Talk: (11/01/11) : Coach Cross with Katie Dorman, Jessie Pettit & coach Chisan JonesCross Talk: (11/02/11) : Coach Cross with Katie Dorman, Jessie Pettit & coach Chisan Jones 09/08/2013 UTEP Soccer vs Stephen F. AustinPhoto Gallery by Michael Patrick Reese 09/01/2013 UTEP Soccer vs Abilene ChristianPhoto Gallery by Michael Patrick Reese 10/26/2012 UTEP Soccer v Colorado CollegePhoto Gallery By Michael P. Reese 10/13/2012 UTEP vs Southern Miss. Photos by IPAPhotos by Ivan Pierre Aguirre 10/07/2012 UTEP vs No. 22 Memphis. Photos by Ivan Pierre Aguirre4-1. Photos by Ivan Pierre Aguirre Texas native Kevin Cross has built the UTEP soccer program into a perennial conference contender and a driving force in the NCAA's Central Region in his 12 years as head coach. |


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Thursday, 2nd May 2013
Pick up a blank postcard in one of our shops to be in with a chance of winning an amazing holiday to Greece. All you have to do is design your favourite summer memory on the blank side of the postcard, write a short description about it and send it back to us. You can be as creative as you like (as long as the postman can fit it through our letterbox). Then simply pop it in the post!


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Viewing entries tagged with 'south sydney rabbitohs'
Panthers get second wind to defeat Bunnies
THE Panthers have kept alive their chances of finishing without the wooden spoon in 2007 with an emphatic second half performance to defeat the Rabbitohs 32-16 tonight.
BEARS BACK ON THE ROAD & LOOKIN FOR A 5th WIN
NORTH Sydney Premier League Coach Wayne Lambkin has named an unchanged line up as the Bears hit the road
Penrith name changed side for South Sydney clash
PENRITH Panthers coach Matt Elliott has named his side to take on South Sydney this Saturday night at CUA Stadium.
Peachey & Williams Shine As Norths Make It 4 From 4
NORTH Sydney have once again stamped their authority on Bear Park with a combined total of 94 points
Souths grind out tough win against Titans
THE South Sydney Rabbitohs have defeated the Gold Coast Titans 20-14 in a rugged encounter at Telstra Stadium.
Peachey Is Added To The Mix As The Grizzlies Look For More Points
DAVID Peachey will be the icing on the cake as the Bears look to cook up another 2 points in Friday night footy
South Sydney lineup for clash with Gold Coast
THE South Sydney Rabbitohs are pleased to announce their side to take on the Gold Coast Titans in round 20 of the NRL Telstra Premiership this Saturday 28 July at 7.30pm at Telstra Stadium.
Gold Coast Titans lineup for Round 20
JETSTAR Gold Coast Titans coach John Cartwright has named his squad with 19 men to face South Sydney this Saturday night at Telstra Stadium.
No Player Burn-Out For Bears In Hat Trick Of Wins
NORTH Sydney have successfully faced the challenge of 3 matches in 7 days with a nail biting win


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We are glad to bring you to Audiko, where you can download the best ringtones for your smart phone. Today we have a ringtone of "Message" by sms as well as 4088 other ringtones by sms. "Message" is one of the best tracks from the "X" album that was released by sms at their label together with other 2 tracks. You can listen to all 46 sms – "Message" ringtone variations available here and download it for free directly to your mobile. You can also find other 112 albums produced by sms for all time. "Message" is referred to Pop, and you can download a huge amount of Pop artists absolutely for free. And finally, we have collected lyrics for this track and you can view it here as well. So feel free to browse, listen, download ringtones at Audiko.net. Make your phone sound cool!
sms message Ringtone
Similar Ringtones
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- Spiel mir das lied vom Tod - Lied vom Tod
- - prince royce - Prince Royce - Stand By Me
- 3m8s - Don't You Worry Child - Swedish House Maffia
- Nazar - Sweet 16 feat. Projekt Elias
- Nazar - Pyramiden Hinterm Mond feat. Projekt Elias
- Optiv & CZA - In Too Deep
- Bicycle Horn Sound Effects - Bicycle Horn Sound Effect Ringtone
- Volxsturm - Nur wir 2
- 乧뭬 - 倀漀爀挀攀氀愀椀渀 倀爀椀渀挀攀猀猀ᤠ 倀愀氀愀挀攀
- hey hey - v


text:
Suppose you want to measure a (real-valued) quantity with an apparatus which will return as a result of the measurement the closest integer to the true value of the quantity.
Then, a common use is to quote an uncertainty of +/- $1/\sqrt{12}$ (which, as a matter of fact, is the standard deviation of a uniform distribution of width 1. Let's note that this interval does not correspond to 68% probability)
Now, my question is : where does this value come from ? Is this "quantization" error treated as a systematic ? (and therefore the resolution/$\sqrt{12}$ factor would just be a rather subjective estimate of it ?)
Thanks in advance.


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FICTION: Road Trips |
Amy & Roger's epic detour
After the death of her father, Amy, a high school student, and Roger, a college freshman, set out on a carefully planned road trip from California to Connecticut, but wind up taking many detours, forcing Amy to face her worst fears and come to terms with her grief and guilt. Matson, Morgan. TEEN MATSON |
An abundance of Katherines
Having been recently dumped for the nineteenth time by a girl named Katherine, recent high school graduate and former child prodigy Colin sets off on a road trip with his best friend to try to find some new direction in life while also trying to create a mathematical formula to explain his relationships. Green, John, 1977- TEEN GREEN |
As easy as falling off the face of the earth
A teenaged boy encounters one comedic calamity after another when his train strands him in the middle of nowhere, and everything comes down to luck. Perkins, Lynne Rae. TEEN PERKINS |
Crash into me
Four suicidal teenagers go on a "celebrity suicide road trip," visiting the graves of famous people who have killed themselves, with the intention of ending their lives in Death Valley, California. Borris, Albert. TEEN BORRIS |
Defining Dulcie
When sixteen-year-old Dulcie's father dies, her mother makes a decision to move them to California, where Dulcie makes an equally radical decision to steal her dad's old truck and head back home. Acampora, Paul. TEEN ACAMPOR |
When seventeen-year-old Lila Beckwith's parents go on vacation, her plans to throw a huge Christmas party are thwarted by her younger brother and his best friend, who leave on a mission to save the North Pole from global warming, and she must join forces with her ex-boyfriend to get the youngsters safely home. Brian, Kate, 1974- TEEN BRIAN |
Going bovine
Cameron Smith, a disaffected sixteen year-old who, after being diagnosed with Creutzfeld Jakob's (aka mad cow) disease, sets off on a road trip with a death-obsessed video gaming dwarf he meets in the hospital in an attempt to find a cure. Bray, Libba. TEEN BRAY |
Hit the road
Sixteen-year-old Brittany acts as chauffeur for her grandmother and three other eighty-plus-year-old women going to what is supposedly their college reunion, on a long drive that involves lies, theft, and kidnappings. Cooney, Caroline B. TEEN COONEY |
Jerk, California
Plagued by Tourette's syndrome and a stepfather who despises him, Sam meets an old man in his small Minnesota town who sends him on a road trip designed to help him discover the truth about his life. Friesen, Jonathan. TEEN FRIESEN |
Mare's war
Teens Octavia and Tali learn about strength, independence, and courage when they are forced to take a car trip with their grandmother, who tells about growing up Black in 1940s Alabama and serving in Europe during World War II as a member of the Women's Army Corps. Davis, Tanita S. TEEN DAVIS |


text:
Things my girlfriend and I have argued about... in my pants.
The Name of the Star in your pants.
I like that! Heck... it's hard not to post a bazillion things to this thread.
I Was Told There'd By Cake (in my pants)
The Earth, My Butt, And Other Big Round Things (in my pants)
When You Are Engulfed In Flames (in my pants)
Whether in "my" pants or "your" pants. It still happens in pants.
The Secret Life of Bees in Your Pants
The Lord of the Flies in Your Pants
Things Fall Apart in Your Pants
To Kill a Mockingbird in Your Pants
Fahrenheit 451 in Your Pants
War and Peace in Your Pants
Where Angels Fear to Tread in Your Pants
The Man Who Had All the Luck in Your Pants
The Stranger in Your Pants
The Collector in Your Pants
A series of unfortunate events.. in your pants
Great expectations... in your pants
All I can think of right now is We Broke Up in Your Pants and Its Kind of a Funny Story in Your Pants.
The Color Purple...In My Pants. (actually, that sounds like a serious medical problem)
The hair of Berenice in my pants
To kill a mockingbird in my pants
The invisible child in my pants
Wicked Plants...In My Pants.
Mozart's Sister... in your pants.
Here are some links to help spread the awesome:
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Save to Disk.
Albuquerque Homeschool Forum / Getting to know you / Avatars & pictures on forum
Posted by:
ElizabethH, April 5, 2006, 9:35pm
By popular demand -- well, one or two people have asked me -- I've enabled the forum to include pictures and "avatars". If you're so inclined, you can add a picture of yourself or your family to your signature, or an avatar underneath your username to the left of your posts.
Here's how to do it.
To add a picture along with your signature at the bottom of your posts:
Click the member center button in the upper right of the window.
Click the signature link at the left.
In the signature area, add something like this:
[ i m g]http://www.mysite.com/somepicture.jpg [ / i m g ]
(I had to add extra spaces above to make
it print out right, but you should take them out!)
Click the save button.
Note that the picture needs to be hosted on another web site, such as one of the free photo places like shutterfly.
To add an avatar to your posts is even easier:
Click on the member center button in the upper right of the window.
Click the avatar settings link at the left.
Browse through the available avatars, or upload one of your own.
Click the save button.
Print page generated:
March 12, 2014, 11:45am
Powered by
E-Blah Forum Software
10.3.6 © 2001-2008


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Home - Destinations - iPhone/Android - Partners - Forum - Photos - Deals - What's New |
Know the location of this area? Show us! We
don't know it, but we're working on cool new features that need it!
DescriptionMeadow Rock is a smaller formation with south, west, and north aspected faces. The namesake meadow (hopefully not the cougar) lies a short distance to the northwest. Getting ThereBushwhack your way up past Coyote Cliff (the first canyon north of Alligator Lounge with decent rock). It is recommended to stay as close to the cliff as possible to avoid the choking aspen. From the back of the canyon, head up and right in an eastward direction towards Meadow Rock. The small meadow will lie on your left as you approach the north face of the crag and the stunning roof crack route, "The Dark". 2 Total Routes
Featured Route For Meadow Rock aka Cougar Cliff
The Dark 5.11 6c+ 23 VIII- E4 5c CO : South Platte : ... : Meadow Rock aka Cougar Clif...
Kudos to the first ascentionist for finding this gem! The Dark climbs the obvious crack that jogs up and left through the STEEP headwall. Start in the left-facing corner, and make a reachy traverse left on brilliantly sculpted granite to enter the crack proper. Catch your breath since this is probably the last time you will have your feet directly below you for the rest of the climb. Employ all your crack and face climbing skills as you fight off a growing pump in a race to the anchors. ...[more] Browse More Classics in CO
News and Events For Meadow Rock aka Cougar Cliff
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FOUNDED: February 9, 2001
The Firearms Forum - Gun Community
Curio & Relics Forum
Help for a guy asking me questions on an M91...
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Help for a guy asking me questions on an M91...
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 2615
(1/15/02 11:50:12 am)
Reply | Edit | Del All Help for a guy asking me questions on an M91...
I sold some stripper clips to a guy on GB who is now asking me questions about his 91 he's thinking of selling. I invited him here, but I think he's a computer newby and is unsure how...while I'm trying to talk him through it, here's what he's got...
(I am NOT a Finn expert, but he thinks I am...)
Sounds like a pretty run of the mill WWI capture, reissued. It is a standard Russian stocked 91, with SA stamp, and possibly Sako stamps too, he's not too good at descriptions...it has the markings on both sides of the rear sight, but the Arshini markings are not crossed out.
It's good metal, stock is dinged and missing the handguard...according to him.
BUT...I'm hesitant to tell him what I think it's worth, because he says it has GERMAN markings on the stock, a barely legible "cross" (Maltese?) and the legible words "TSCHS REICH" (His words...)
Is it a German WWI capture then sold given to the FInns? If so, is it worth more?
He's a nice guy, who is trying to get me pictures, if he comes here, please help him out, as I know you all will...
He also is selling some new guns, and doesn't know how to list them, I'm helping him there too...
We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915
Edited by: polishshooter at: 1/15/02 7:51:53 pm
Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1659
(1/15/02 9:47:07 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Help for a guy asking me questions on an M91...
I have heard several stories lately around this area about Mosin Nagants with Swastikas or German Crosses carved in them, and/or German writing. I think a lot of it is some twisted shmucks cobbling on run of the mill MNs with their trusty barlow knives, then peddling them as "German War captures autographed by Hitler then sold to the Finns" or some such garbage.
We will need to get more details from this fellow - who knows, maybe it is authentic.
Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!
Posts: 50
(1/15/02 10:37:05 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Help for a guy asking me questions on an M91...
Hey polish, you're more of an expert than you think you are. It is a WWI capture. When captured, the Germans is many cases used the rifle as is with only the "REICH" or "DEUTSCH" stampings added to the reciever rail. After WWI these "booty" rifles were sold to the Finns for badly needed revenue purposes. Some stocks were replaced, while many retained the one piece stock depending on condition.
I have one of these that I have studied for some time and mine is what I call double Finned Chatelerau. It was built by the French for Russia in IIRC in 1892, captured by Germany WWI, Had P-27 barrel lineing and jointed stock during a Finn Rebuild in 1927. It also hs WWII sling modifications like the M39's, that were misteriously later plugged. Some folks have told me that this is common when Finn rifles were recaptured by the Russians, so this one has been around.
As to value, I gave 60 for this one, (pawn shp find) and have never seen another one like it, The P-27 B barrel adds value, after at least 2 rebuilds, and still an M91 is strange in its self. Its a French made piece, and the Czar eagles are intact, I was told around $200 by an advanced collector on this one.
For the one in question here, missing handgard, it might have never had one, the early first few French pieces didn't have a handgard, Do the bands indicate it's missing or never had one?
It might be a unique piece, but more info would be needed.
Reciever tang date? Type stock? Type barrel bands? Sling swivels /slots? Any matching numbers? Rod present? Bore condition?
Hope this helps, but maybe just ore questions!
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 2625
(1/17/02 12:00:49 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Help for a guy asking me questions on an M91...
Well, Jerry has been checking in here, but hasn't joined yet. Or else hasn't figured out how.
He sent me some pictures, am gonna see if GP will post them here for us.
Looks legit. BUT it has a Russian stock, but the barrel bands are Finnish for sure...don't know if it ever had a handguard.
Front sight is the correct unhooded Finnish. BUT he just told me there are markings on the reciever in German, I'll cut and paste what he said from his emails.
There is NO date on the reciever, just an "S" in a kind of a shield I've never seen before on top of the reciever. No other markings there, strange.
It is import marked, CAI, but even THAT is funny...he says it says "M91 SWITZ 7.62x54R" where they stamped their name and address.
The stock markings look legit, and yeah, it's DEUTCHES RIECH around the circle.
It has a rod, and is matching, at least the bolt anyways...
Here it is:
"by looking closer with a magnifying glass and a bright light
it is
stamped DEUTSHES REICH. on the stock and on the barrel on the right
side just left of the front sight in very small letters CAI. SI. ALB VI
under that it says M91 SWITZ 7.62X54R . now where it says CAI that
could be
CAJ or CAL i'm not sure. the one man said it was possible it may not
had a
hand guard on it and by the way the rings look there isn't any room for
anything to fit between the barrel and the rings. i hope the pics will
you. on the right side of the receiver it says SCHWEIZ INDUSTRIES
GESELLSCHAFT and under that it says NEUHAUSEN"
We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915
Edited by: polishshooter at: 1/17/02 12:04:35 am
Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1669
(1/17/02 8:25:05 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Help for a guy asking me questions on an M91...
I have had some of the Swiss made MNs in the past. The "S" in the shield on the top of the chamber is correct, and the labeling on the side of the receiver is the Swiss firm that made the rifle. I would guess that this rifle is one from the batch of Finnish imports that Century brought in during the early to mid 1980s. The stamp on the stock - who knows if that was the original stock for the gun? The Finns did a lot of mix & match. All of the Swiss rifles I have seen have had the top wood handguard, so I would hazard a guess that the Finns fiddled with the stock on this one.
Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1937
(1/17/02 1:57:44 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Help for a guy asking me questions on an M91...
Edited by: gpostal at: 1/17/02 2:29:52 pm
RobC in Missouri
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 88
(1/17/02 2:57:42 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Help for a guy asking me questions on an M91...
Couldn't see the pics, but the "S in a shield" marking sounds like it may very well be a Finnish Model 91/24 - that's the old Civil Guard marking, IIRC. The barrel is SIG production, but the receiver is Russian (all the Finnish guns used Russian receivers). The 91/24 has a heavier barrel than the standard 91, so if that's the original Russian stock, it would've been routed out a bit for the barrel to fit. The barrel may also have a step in it near the front sight. The German markings could mean that it was originally a Russian 91 captured my Germany, then sold to the Finns, who rebarrelled it. This gun has a history behind it!
M91/24s are relatively uncommon, and on the collector market could fetch $200-350 depending on condition - possibly more on an auction site. Have him pull the stock and look under the tang for the receiver date and arsenal marking - you never know, it may turn out to be antique as well!
RobC in Missouri
RobC in Missouri
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 89
(1/17/02 3:50:30 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Help for a guy asking me questions on an M91...
Changed browsers - now I can see the pics. It is indeed an M91/24, sans handguard (perhaps it never had one - who knows). Check Tuco's (
) for more info on it.
RobC in Missouri
Posts: 1
(1/17/02 7:10:45 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del m-91
I'm the guy who has this m-91. I just registered and I am checking to see if I did this right. so bear with me. I found this gun at a gun show and this guy had 50 of them but it was the only one that had what I thought was an original stock, but I'm no expert.the markings intrigued me. there is a step on the barrel about an inch and one half behind the front sight . I'm going to try to take the stock off so I can see if there is a date hidden.
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 3467
(1/17/02 7:19:43 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Welcome Gamehunter3, durn Ruskies and Finns. Hex receiver, good deal! Crest is correct too. Is there a "B" stamped on the barrel?? The crest is the very same one as a "Sniper"(?) model I got some time back [Fake, long story] but the markings are correct. Looks as though you made it just fine, the site was down most of the day......so bear with us. Regards LTS
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 2012
(1/17/02 7:41:05 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Hello Gamehunter and welcome to The Firearms Forum
Posts: 2
(1/17/02 8:15:20 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Thanks alot. I did take the stock off and there was no date on the underside. I saw a rifle on gb and it had the S inside a shield and the owner said it was a sako sky. Mine does have the sa on the left side of the receiver.
Posts: 58
(1/17/02 8:40:28 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
The receiver date should be stamped on the underside of the tang aft of the screw hole Sept 1896 woild probably look like 9 * 8 with an arsenal stamp in the center.
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 2632
(1/17/02 9:15:04 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
JERRY, GLAD to see you made it!! See, I TOLD you guys would be interested!
Dan, I tried to send you the rest of Jerry's pics but they came back undeliverable "Recipient did not like sender" or something...GEEZ, you Democrats sure hold a GRUDGE!
Moska, now you got ME playing with my one Finn...
I'm going to take mine apart tonite to see if the date is on MY tang...I've never noticed on any other MN...but like I said, all my others are 91/30s and 44s, BUT I have three transition hex 91/30s which should have it...
What's the Tikka marking look like? The one I bought from Bob last year has a teeny shield on the top hex flat on the reciever, that I swear has a TIK under a crest with wings it looks like, but the darn thing is so small even with a glass I can't be sure...darn these "gettin old" eyes...
I may be stupid, but I don't have one to compare...doesn't a Russian 91 have barrel bands like a 91/30??? I.e., if it was a French Shosho, it would have the RUSSIAN bands not the Finnish type with the screws, right?
And what is the story on the Swiss MNs? I never heard that before...did they MAKE them? Or rework captured ones? That part intrigues me....
We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915
Posts: 3
(1/17/02 9:24:11 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
I just got a little history lesson. The S thats is in the shield is the earliest civil guard stamp. It was changed after 1928. The barrel is swiss made and it was 1 of 8000, then the the barrels were made by germans. The DEUTSCHES REICH stamp on the stock ment it was a german WW1 capture rifle.
Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1670
(1/17/02 9:44:38 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Well golly - we is always learning! The Swiss barrel one I had had the S in a shield, and the Century import stamp saying Swiss made. Things we always learn.
Polishshooter - I have disassembled and cleaned a bunch of Russian M44s, 1944 dated in laminated stocks - they are all stamped 1944 on the underside of the tang.
Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!
Posts: 4
(1/17/02 9:50:00 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
On the front hole of the receiver there is the numbers 810 in front of the hole. Does this have anything to do with the date?
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 2638
(1/18/02 12:17:11 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Where did you get the "History Lesson," Jerry? Sounds like you got it figured out...
STILL I'd like to know how the Swiss got into MNs...
I still don't understand the German stock markings on a Swiss rifle though...German capture from the Russians sold to Switzerland, rebuilt, then resold to Finland???? Talk about a "road less traveled..."
Or could it be a captured STOCK put into use on a rebuilt rifle BODY later? The Finns, like the Russians, never threw away anything serviceable...
We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1940
(1/18/02 8:51:11 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
i only recived the three ,are you sure you sent the rest to the corect email?
try sending me a email today 1-18-02
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1491
(1/18/02 9:28:27 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Welcome Gamehunter!
With all the traveling that baby's done, I wouldn't be surprised if Anastasia carried it to Paris and later sold it to Elvis.......
Posts: 11
(1/18/02 9:51:41 am)
Reply | Edit | Del
Re: m-91
Hello guys
If this rifle has the "S" in the shield, it is a m/24 or sometimes referred to as a m/91-24 Lotta rifle. These were heavy barrelled m/91s that were rebarrelled by the Finns due to barrel wear. The above picture shows the end of the barrel is stepped so the standard Russian bayonet can fit on the end. These were Civil Guard rifles and are rare finds. Some of these I have seen do not have upper barrel bands. The barrel bands for these are very hard to find. This is due to the fact that the barrels on these are thicker.
When shooting these guns or any Finn rifles you will find the heavy bullets work best.
The German marking means that it was captured by the Germans and then supplied to the Finns. These German markings were always placed on these guns when the were at the the German Arsenal.
The price on these run anywhere form $150 to $400 depending where and how you sell these guns.
Mosin Nagants of the World
Posts: 61
(1/18/02 10:00:30 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Hi guys, I don't have my book with me, I'm "working" right now. The early tula mark was a little hammer looking thing, as I recall. Most all the manufacturers changed their markings between 1917 and 30. Most round recievers weren't numbered on the underside of the tang like the hex'es. The little shield looking thing is probably a small bow with an arrow in it. Some were arrow only, these were Izhevsk, and Seystroesk (sp) early markings, and there also french Chetellerau markings. You will find many 1917 parts from New England Westinghouse with an E with an arrow on the middle prong.
I recommend a book By Terrance Lapin, titled Mosin Nagants of the world, and one by Dowg Bowser, titled Rifles of the white death that deals mostly with the Finns, and Finn history of engagements with the Russians. Both these books are excellent guides to all the tiny things that are peculiar to these rifles. They are actually a must for the collector.
V.I.P. Forum Host
Posts: 1064
(1/18/02 10:34:52 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Now I'm really confused. I guess I had better pull my book out and do some reading. That would probably only confuse me more though. LOL.
Moskovskyya the book you referred to by Terrance Lapin is titled "The Mosin-Nagant Rifle" I believe and not "Mosin Nagants of the world". Unless he produced two books. Like I said after reading this thread I'm all confused.
Owning one of these rifles is a must if for nothing else then to study it and learn its travels thru-out history.
Oh BTW, Welcome aboard gamehunter3 !!!!!
RobC in Missouri
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 90
(1/18/02 1:06:50 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Polishshooter - the marking you have on the top hex of the receiver is actually a Czarist eagle. The letters that look like "TIK" is actually the character for Pi followed by a k. Original Russian M91s would also have the same marking on the barrel shank, above the arsenal stamp. However, after the 1917 revolution, the markings were removed (scrubbed) or peened out, and they didn't stamp the eagle after that. I don't know what the ratio of M91s with intact eagles is vs. scrubbed eagles - I assume intact eagles are more scarce.
The Swiss didn't build M91s - The Finns contracted with the Swiss firm SIG to make barrels for them.
RobC in Missouri
Posts: 63
(1/18/02 2:50:35 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Sorry Flhunter, you sir are right about the title. Lapin has written many books, but only one on the Mosin Nagant that I know of. I use the book a lot, just apparrently never pay much attention to the title, thanks!
Posts: 5
(1/18/02 6:18:39 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
The infomation I got was from
There is a section on markings and proofs. and also on th M91/24. It seemed to me that what they said was what i had.with this rifle.
Posts: 64
(1/18/02 9:14:10 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Mr. gamehunter3, do you want to sell, or trade the rifle?
Posts: 6
(1/18/02 10:06:52 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Hi ! It has been interesting finding a little history. I would like to find out what its worth. but also I have a couple of newer guns for sale too. I am looking for a remington 7400 30-06 for deer hunting. My wife said I should look for more old rifles like the one I have and who knows maybe I could get lucky again. I got a deal when I bought this one about 5 years ago. The man had 50 of them and this one was the only one with what I thought was an original stock. I like the german stamp on the stock. After I bought it the guy looked a little closer and said I kind of wished I kept that one. I am open to offers. JERRY IN FLORIDA
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 170
(1/18/02 10:55:10 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Hey, Jerry - !
Welcome to TFF! Hope you stick around and join in when the urge strikes. Lots of info and even more BS here - good folk and more than a few pranksters! Enjoy - !
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 2642
(1/18/02 11:19:26 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
I think I'm going to buy Lapins book tomorrow at the Gun Show in Indy...
I have three "transition" 91/30s that intrigue me...one a 1920 Izhevsk, that has a rearsenal mark, BUT has Imperial Russian Cyrillic on the reciever, it would be out of place, right? I mean there should NOT be Imperial Markings after 1917 or 18, right?...ALONG with two hammer and sickles in the wreath, that seem hurredly put on...one on the hex looks like it's an overstamp of the Czar's eagle...it is pretty ratty, but solid...I THINK it may be a Dragoon that on rearsenal was converted to a 91/30 later...it has 91/30 sights, BUT the barrel on this, and another one (1929 Izh) are slightly longer than my 1931 Tula, and my 41 and 43 Izhs....they have the early stocks though, with the screwed sling slot metal.
The early 91/30s, up to like 1936 are pretty cool...they used old parts, converted Dragoons, and kept changing them little by little until they "settled" on the design like in 37 or so...
I need to find an actual Dragoon to REALLY start the collection of transitions off right...
We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915
Posts: 67
(1/18/02 11:41:38 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91
Hey Polish, if you're doing any Finns, don't forget Doug Bowsers book "Rifles of the White Death", fron North cape Publications. He has a lot of general Mosin info, but mostly specialized Finn stuff. He's a good ol boy from middle Mississippi.
Posts: 7
(1/19/02 7:55:32 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91/ Question for Bob in ST. LOUIS
Have you ever heard of ST. LOUIS ARMS CO.
Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1688
(1/20/02 9:36:57 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91/ Question for Bob in ST. LOUIS
Looked at a 91/24 at the gunshow today. Had the Swiss barrel and the early guard "S" in a shield, but the stock was not marked. The fellow wanted $295 for it, but would settle for $250.
I have seen some revolvers from the early 1900s marked St. Louis Arms Company - is that what you are referring to - early 1900s arms? They were a distributor that handled and brokered arms to retailers - rifles, shotguns & mostly cheap pistols (lots o' nickel plated).
Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!
Posts: 11
(1/20/02 9:54:12 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91/ Question for Bob in ST. LOUIS
The reason I asked is that I have an old St. Louis Arms double barrel 12 ga. shotgun and I was looking for a little history about it. It looks about 75 to a 100 years old but it is in nice shape.
Edited by: gamehunter3 at: 1/20/02 9:55:38 pm
Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1692
(1/20/02 10:16:56 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: m-91/ Question for Bob in ST. LOUIS
That is about all I know about them - early 1900s, mostly mediocre grade arms. "Firearms of the masses, for behind the seats of their Model T Fords"
Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!
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This 1965 Backdraft Cobra 427SC Convertible features a Ford Racing 351W 8cyl engine. It is equipped with a 5 Speed Manual transmission. The vehicle is Blue with a Black Leather interior. It is offered As-Is, extended warranty is available. - Backdraft Cobra, blue with white stripes. 6114 miles. Ford Racing 351W, 385hp, Tremec trans. AC wheel, shifter & pedals. BMW E36 3 series suspension. 17 wheels, 315 Nitto drag tires in rear. racing harnesses, all emblems. Push button starter, battery kill switch. Chrome side pipes and roll bar. Only 6114 miles. Purchased in Dec 2004, first registered and running in Jan 2005. - Leather Interior Surface - Contact Dennis Peck or for more information. -
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lol yeah I have that effect on people
Discussion on Lev'ika's Custom Mando Art within the Expanded Universe Bounty Hunters forum, part of the Star Wars Universe category; lol yeah I have that effect on people
lol yeah I have that effect on people
...Just wait till you get a bucket on and become the embodiment of faceless terror...
that sounded epic thats definatly the term im going to use when people ask who i am dressed as. "who are you supposed to be?" "I AM THE EMBODIMENT OF FACELESS TERROR!!!!!!!" haha!
I am officaly making one! and should make one for all of us!
Hooah! Alpha, your new true calling: custom t-shirts.
would be pretty sweet! Research time!
put a big boba helmet on it... or maybe jango
or maybe one with bloody fangs?
and jaing eyes! lol
haha well i did look into it and its like 2 bucks to get something printed i might have to go get that done!
who all would want one? Just to see if there would be any interest
The funny thing is... I'm a small built guy, but apparently the way I carry myself and my attitude make me intimidating. I've been told many times that I need to "lighten up" when speaking to other officers and to the enlisted people. It's not intentional... I just stand a certain way out of habit, I walk/talk certain ways out of habit and I behave a certain way out of habit. For example:
I habitually stand with my feet shoulder width apart, slightly angled away from the person/people I am talking to. I always stand relatively tall (posture wise) and I either fold my arms across my chest or put my hands on my hips because it is more comfortable that way. I also always look to each corner of the room when I walk through the door and sweep the room near to far (visually) every so often. I also look directly at anyone I am speaking to and speak loud enough to be heard. If someone is talking to me... I look directly at them and only disengage from time to time to scan the room. All of this is done out of habit and these habits are the ones that I have had people tell me are my "intimidating behaviors"
BTW Lev'ika... I'd definately be interested
Im not promising anything just seeing if anyone would be interested if i did do it
about to post Ord'ikas sketch without the howlrunner (I cant seem to draw it right) dont worry guys ill get it in there This is pretty much one for you guys to tell me if im missing anything
here it is
Kandosii! Another great piece of art!!! And I would DEFINATELY be interested in a shirt...
I totally understand...I get the same thing pretty often...especially the folded arms bit...lol.
Lev'ika, nice work as usual... when r u gonna start coloring those things tho? lol
as soon as i can find/afford markers
use the GIMP, it's so easy, just use layers and transparancy... check youtube for simple tutorials.
you can look on youtube for GIMP tutorials, or even online, but seeing video tutorials always helps me, I'm an audio/visual learner.
yeah I'm a mechanical learner... I learn by doing. Trial and error are BIG words in my vocabulary! lol BTW, did I tell u guys I won the top scope award in my graduating class from tech school wednesday?
Awesome Kal!!! Kandosii ner vod!!!
Ord'ika i hope you can forgive me but im going to go on to the next sketch and practice drawing the howlrunner at the same time so i can get it perfect for your sketch
It will be finished I PROMISE! but i need a bit of practice with that tricky creature
hey Jason while you're on. What kind of sketch do you want?
Thanks Ord'ika!
Hey lev'ika sorry for the doubletap but... if I were to setup a thread for us to use to post our finished sketches... kinda like a gallery would u be interested in sharing said thread and using it for the display of our artwork?
Like i said on the other thread.. YES! That would be pretty sweet to have a gallery of our Sketchs!
That mando Jedi is sick nice work
Thanks (adonian its like my third or fourth sketch)
sacrilege... it's blasphemy I tell u, blasphemy! lol jk jk... I can think of at least 2 true mando'ade who were jedi/force sensitive and I know of another Jetti that even the great Boba Fett would allow to join our ranks
Hey Levi, I saw this web site:
and did a test of this:
I really gotta get to work on our picture huh.
thats funky vod
thats pretty cool
lol. a stamp. Awesome Adonian!
hey Levi, can you do me a favor... Can you take a few scenery pics of the snow... I'm stuck here in Cali, and believe it or not, I miss snow
of course i might have to get them up tonight or tomorrow though About to head off to see toy story 2 and 3 3D!!!! yes thats right
They better release them in 3d on dvd, I'm mad at dreamworks for not doin monsters v aliens, they said the technology isn't good enough, well there isn't a 4k tv yet, what are they waitin for?
so true! Watching toy story brought me back like 5 years good time!
I would like to apologize to everyone waiting for their mando sketchs. I know i have a few i need to do yet but life is getting stressful and i need a few days to cope with it and get everything straigtened out. I hope everyone can understand
its alright man, rember i can do all things through Christ who strengthens me
thanks man! i needed that
Hey Levi, can you draw my new mando?
Ok ill do that asap nice concept btw
Im going to do that first because its easy and wont take to long.. ill finish the rest of the sketchs after
Im not sure if much can be started until monday. I have been having constant tests and a massive book report due on monday as the last of the work load. So ill be free to start my sketchs once again
hey could you make me a drawing for a sniper?
Hey bounty621, I see you followed the link...
HEY SQUIDWARD!! bounty621 would like a pic
See I'm getting you some business vod
hey your catching up to me on post count I better start padding
1451 and so on and so forth JK
haha! ya im catching up!!!
replied to your pm bountyhunter621
oh yeah...
Did you see my underwear?
Hahahaha, connect the dots! I drawed a horsey!
I don't speak Italian.
I made myself and sandwich
dont we sound awesome
(maybe i should go add a few to your thread so i keep up )
Boy, was I using that wrong!
/thread jack
ya its been rough... been prayin for you Kal
Good news though. FINISHED MY TESTS AND ELA PROJECT!! IM DONE!!!
whew had to get that off my chest
hey I have good news too! I survived the first phase, in second phase now. Congrats btw... hopefully we'll both come out of this stuff no worse for wear. lol
Ya im hopin for that
lol me 2!
Im so excited that i actually am able to get workin on my sketchs now!!
First up im going to do one for Adonians new custom
then finish one for Raz Zencora (I just have to finish that)
Then finish the one for Jason
Then C1RCAs
and then one for Bounteyhunter621
One for Kal and Fi
and then adding in the creatures for Ordeyn and Raz Zencoras
Last edited by Alpha-Ø2; Oct 24, 2009 at 8:13 PM.
any chance I could get u to throw in a new sketch of my new mando and fi for me?
of course
ill edit that into the bottom
Has Fi's changed at all?
umm... no I don't think so... give me a few min and I'll throw up both of the pics for ya. I actually want a couple...lol sorry ner vod.
ok i was thinking of a couple pic i just didnt write it that way i guess ok sweet a picture to go by will help
lol yeah I would like a new couple sketch... and I was also wondering if u'd be so kind as to redo the bucket sketch u did for me.
the one were you and Fi have your buckets up against each other?
yeah that one, it's my favorite, hands down... still have it on my desktop! lol
really? ya i actually like it a lot. As soon as i pick up the pencil crayons im going to be using thats probably gonna be one of the first ones i colour.. that and the group sketch
sweet! thanks ner vod... working on fixin' up the armor pic for ya
thats awesome thanks
sorry about the graininess of the picture but I had to take existing images and resize them...lol
perfectly fine
ok thanks
no prob... so I realized while working on that big composite of my concepts, how much my style has changed since I started drawing mandos
haha ya it has. Mine too.. so much more detail has been added to my work
So happy i started
yeah I've noticed some definate improvement in yours too
if you draw 30 minutes a day, you will improve dramatically, remember when I used to draw my own comics (back in the 80's eeewww) I got better and quicker the more I drew.
^^^ practice makes perfect.
sure does Im even using my improved talent to draw a picture of Bilbo and Smaug from the hobbit for my ela project
Ill post it here when im done if anyones interested
of course i'm interested, I gotta see smaug, I liked the Ralph Bakshi The Hobbit cartoon.
Smaugs lookin pretty sweet right now i gotta admit
I just have to draw Bilbo invisible and a shadow were he is (he'll be just an outline and be able to see through him.. thats my plan)
Ok i hope Adonians on and anyone else who has read the hobbit
I need an opinion oh how to draw bilbo... anyone have an idea? i cant seem to put the way i pictured him in the book to paper
There's a discription somewhere in there...
That book is the best...
ya but i just cant seem to get it right.. i think i found a good pic to go by though ill post the finished product here when i finish
cant find my hobbit book anywhere, I have hobbit and the trilogy, haven't read them in a long time, but man are they gooooood.
oh ya! I finished the drawing and im scaning it in as you read this
drooling in anticipation
dont go anywhere dont get your hopes to high its a 2 hour job


text:
Unique bicolor blooms are white with a bright rose star pattern. Disease and drought tolerant, plants offer a long-season display. Use as edging, in drifts or in container plantings.
LifeCycle: Annual
Uses: Beds, Borders, Container
Sun: Full Sun
Height: 12-18 inches
Spread: 12-18 inches
Sowing Method: Direct Sow/Indoor Sow
Bloom Duration: 12 weeks
Plants ship in Spring at proper planting time.
(click for schedule)
Item 22070 cannot ship to:AA, AE, AK, AP, AS, CA, FM, GU, HI, MH, MP, PR, PW, VI
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