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Social Question
What is your opinion of restaurant owners wanting to pass along the anticipated costs of Obamacare to their customers?
I have been seeing reports in the news of restaurant owners (some pizza chain) and this guy who owns a Denny's, wanting to raise prices of their menu items, in order to cover the anticipated costs of Obamacare. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/john-metz-hurricane-grill-wings-dennys_n_2122412.html
What is your opinion of these tactics? Is it spite? Are these anticipated cost hikes true? Would you actually eat at a restaurant that wanted to charge you more for something like that? If not, could we expect to see the restaurant owners then crying on the news that they went out of business due to Obamacare?
120 Answers
I take it as rhetoric & whining, as well as free publicity for their companies.
I've seen Papa John's house all over Facebook & Twitter, so I can't feel sorry for a man living in a castle while whining about the need to raise his per pizza price by $0.14.
I'm sick of the BS. People need health care. Business owners need to get over their egos.
I talked about this at short length with the HR guy in charge of the insurance at my job (probably 500 or so employees).
The new law will likely lead to increased premiums, as insurance companies will now be mandated to cover children to age 26, and mandated to cover pre-existing conditions. But he was very clear to point out, the vast majority of increased cost with healthcare comes with existing people using the insurance. His exact quote was "87% of all cost increases" will be based off that.
Obamacare comes with safeties to prevent insurers from gouging people to get money from them. For example, there's a new requirement that insurers spend X% of all their profits on providing healthcare, essentially capping their maximum profit.
Most of these business people are just whining. I have a hard time feeling sorry for big business guys crying about increased healthcare costs, when they've kept most of their workforce under 40 hours for decades for the explicit purpose of not having to give them benefits whilst they go home and sleep in mansions every night.
Do they make a public pronouncement when the price of tomatoes goes up? When coffee and peanut butter costs increase, do they add a "coffee and peanut butter surtax" on every check?
Health care costs have been soaring for the 20 years I have been paying attention.
People who hate Obama are simply inclined to blame him for everything.
It's ironic that business people are complaining. Obamacare is cheaper than the current system with more than 20% profit and constantly decreasing benefits.
Premiums are due to drop because healthy people will be added to insurance rolls and companies are bound to compete for these people unless Congress adds some sort of ant-capitalist wording that makes it possible for insurance companies to collude and fix prices.
When I saw the photo on a Fox News article about this – how idiot conservatives are turning against their own fellow citizens to support these grotesquely unhealthy chains – my first thought was, these people should be lining up at the gym and then the vegetable aisle.
Does it matter if the cost hikes are true? These are things people shouldn't be eating. By not paying for the healthcare of their employees, these companies are imposing the costs of emergency room visits and like on wider society. I don't see why self-styled conservatives don't care about that.
And, I don't buy that people who don't care about their bodies are going to start buying low-grade pizza if the costs go up by 15¢.
The way I see it, a restaurant should calculate the cost of ingredients, staff, rent, and any other expense, then set prices that are 4 multiples of of its base cost, in order to be profitable and stay above water.
If the cost of making a meal goes up 1 buck, then the price of the meal should go up 4 bucks. I don't really have a problem with them wanting to pass on the costs to customers, it is just sensible business. A few pennies can make a difference in the restaurant business, between thriving and failing.
If you need to, you should just be able to go to hospital for free. If a country does not have free health care for all of its citizens, then there is your problem.
Passing on the cost of something the government should be taking care of anyway on to your customers seems ok to me.
^ Agreed, I'd happily pay $6 for a $5 pizza if I knew the employees of that chain (and everyone else) had reasonable access to healthcare.
The secret is in the dough.
I'm thankful I can go to many different locally owned pizza shops. They are infinitely better than their national chain counterparts. There's the handmade crust, the tomato sauce made right there in the shop, the good cheeses, and the carefully chosen toppings.
I don't mind paying for the good stuff. I don't eat out often, so I want good stuff when I do. I understand a bit about economics too. I pay the salaries of those people making the pizza, and I pay for their benefits as well. I like to think I'm helping keep a small business open in the face of large corporate aggressors.
Hearing that the large corporations are whining about the costs of providing health care to their employees makes me burn, and when good bread burns in the toaster, it stinks up the whole house.
Hell, hearing that large corporations are whining about the costs of any reasonable benefit to their employees makes me burn.
@FreshlyBaked: I more or less agree, but apparently the lesson in restauranting is that cheap, unhealthy shit sells. Look at the people in that Fox News photo; they probably are willing to shovel any manure into their mouth as long as it satisfies their hunger and sweet tooth. Amusingly, it seems restaurants run as mob fronts have better food because profit doesn't matter too much to them.
We need FEMA to organize air-drops of Kleenex tissues to restaurant owners! First they have to pay a minimum wage (or not depending on tip rules), then they have to meet health standards, then they have to follow other labor laws concerning bathroom breaks and safety standards for workers. Now this?!?!
In all seriousness, just give up. If you can't f*cking handle treating your workers right, then maybe this isn't your line of work.
I believe it is far more likely they will simply cut the workers hours to less than 30. That way they won't be included in the plan.
If a business, any business, has increased costs for any reason – insurance premiums, fuel costs or whatever – they will increase their charges to the customers to make up for their losses. That is how everyone does business. You pass the costs on to the consumers. It isn't anything new.
Speaking strictly in regards to the added costs of adding insurance for employees, if the company can't get an exemption like so many companies have already done, I agree with @YARNLADY. Most will find ways to cut the workforce to a number below he minimum number of employees under Obamacare or perhaps like @tom_g suggests and they will close up shop and move elsewhere where the costs are lower to operate a business.
I kind of remember that Starbucks and Whole Foods have high prices because they supply their employees with very good benefits. We can't expect business to give up profits if the market will bear a higher price for the goods/product/service. The question in my mind is how much it really will wind up costing the business to comply with Obamacare and if this is just a good marketing tool to raise prices and make more profit, and the public just accepts it as a necessity. Airlines did that when flights became more expensive, they blamed fuel prices, but they raised them much more than the fuel prices required.
The other thing that bothers me is health care is ridiculously expensive. Obamacare might give more people health coverage, but it did not do anything to control costs from what I can tell, and I rather that had been dealt with. Now more peopleare going to be in the sa,e shitty unfair system. Great.
Actually, it has @JLeslie, mainly in what @tedd mentioned above, there's required lower limit on the % of premiums that must be spent on healthcare. If the amount is not spent within the term period, the excess is returned to the payee, in this case the company if they cover all the premiums. As insurance companies adjust to this, the premiums will go down as will the rebates.
Secondly, and quite importantly, is this: Insurers are going to get a very large influx of people. By mandating that everyone, even healthy people, buy insurance, it will reduce costs for everyone overall, since sick people are the ones that need to be paid.
@BhacSsylan, what do you mean in your last sentence, "...since sick people are the ones that need to be paid"?
As in, insurers do not need to pay all that much back to healthy people. At most they're paying some money for wellness visits and possibly low-cost prescriptions. While sick individuals, especially with chronic illnesses with expensive treatments, say cancer or diabetes, require much more money out of the insurers. 'Paid' doesn't quite work in that context (as it's the provider getting paid, not the insuree), sorry if it was confusing.
Business owners are in business to make money, competition keeps prices down, cost keep the price up. It does not matter what the cost is for, every penny of business expense is passed on to the consumer weather or not it is advertized.
These greedy bastards are holding their employees and America hostage. Fuck 'em. I'm never going to any business that has decided to this, ever again.
It's certainly their right to charge more for their product for whatever reason they see fit. Just as it's their customers' right to go to a different restaurant for whatever reason they see fit.
Presumably, this is good publicity among anti-Obama customers, who will now go eat more expensive pizza at their shops. And it is bad publicity for pro-Obama customers, who will avoid them on principle. As a result, it will probably be a draw, and everyone will stop caring about it very soon, if they even do now. To be honest, I think it is just one more thing for the talking heads to chatter about, and the folks who buy pizza won't even notice the increase if there is one.
I see it as further proof that these people will look for any justification to do whatever they damn well please anyways. However, I could not justify posting for a Papa John's pizza even before this; they don't make a good pie :p
@glacial "the folks who buy pizza won't even notice the increase if there is one." that's what I first thought months ago when 'Papa' mentioned the 14 cent increase. Does he seriously think anyone would say "My pizza is now $6.14 instead of $6? OUTRAGEOUS!"
As to actually answer the question, which i have been remiss in doing, it does very much seem like a publicity stunt, and an asshole one at that. Prices rise and fall all the time from various things, and I think giving people healthcare is worth a few extra cents a pizza. I do also think that people who live in literal castles shouldn't talk about how 14 cents a pizza will be some horrible catastrophe, though, and I will be one of those to avoid those businesses in the future. Granted, since I much preferred the local pizza places here already (and in general), he's not exactly losing much from me.
Because he's now being forced to pay for healthcare for employees he previously did not. I'm quite sure he's not lying about it costing him (though the article I linked said it'll probably cost him much less then he claimed). The problem being that he's making a big deal out of the fact that the marketplace is changing, something that happens all the time, he's complaining about having to treat his workers better, which does not engender my compassion, and he's doing it while living in a literal castle. I think he could absorb the cost and barely notice it, but instead he's making a big hullabaloo about a rise in price most people would not otherwise notice.
Also, it's a change that still mostly won't take effect for another two years. He's throwing a hissy fit because his guy lost.
Come on, @BhacSsylan. Did you read the link? I love how PolitiFact can twist words. The CBO didn't say "kill 800,000 jobs." They said there will be a reduction of 800,000 in the labor force.
You should read farther…
"In fact, CBO did not predict a 650,000 job loss. The Republican report cites a CBO report from August, which actually said that the economy will use less labor primarily because many people will choose to work less, or retire early, as a result of the new law"
I also edited that link to go directly to the claim instead of the New Hampshire debate factcheck, so if you were looking at that one, the relevant quote is:
"reduce the amount of labor used in the economy by a small amount—roughly half a percent—primarily by reducing the amount of labor that workers choose to supply."
Also also, that's factcheck.org, not politifact.
When the cost of providing goods and services goes up, and if efficiency is at a high level, who else but the customer pays it. Who is this mysterious third party that absorbs or deflects the costs of doing business?
Amusingly, it seems restaurants run as mob fronts have better food because profit doesn't matter too much to them.
You're probably right about that. They Gotti some great food at The Teflon Don Diner! ;-)
If I'm not mistaken, Papa John's are franchises and aren't owned by a big corporation. The local owners of the Papa Johns, wherever and whomever they are, pay a royalty fee based on profits to the franchiser. The company started out as a locally owned pizza shop too.
Higher costs are always passed on to the customer, and I don't have any problem with that. Go ahead and charge me 14 cents more…heck, charge me 50 cents more! What I do have a problem with are the bullshit moves of A) threatening workers' livelihoods and B) making a huge political statement about it. Assholes, every one of them.
@augustlan I am sure that many Americans would swallow a 14 cent increase in pizza prices without even noticing. Hell, I've seen the price of a gallon of gas go up more in a week. No, it's the bullshit surrounding this particular move that gets me too.
@josie True.. as far as it goes. Thing is, the math doesn't add up.
I don't understand the logic behind the boycott. If the boycott is successful, then the boss loses money, or goes out of business, but if the boss loses money or goes out of business, then not only do the employees not get health insurance, they also lose their job.
I saw that today @augustlan. I chuckled out loud.
One presumes that, according to the line that @jerv posted, the cost of pizzas in the current scheme of all ingredient costs will rise approximately 14¢ per piece due to the direct cost of increased healthcare to Papa John's employees. Sure, that sounds like nothing at all, except to someone who already figures their profits in pennies per piece.
According to Wikipedia and their annual report for 2010, they had sales that year of $1,126,397,000. Breaking that down into "pizzas" of roughly $15 each (which is simplistic, given the variety of their menu), that means approximately 75 million pizzas, give or take. Given a net income of $51,940,000, that means that they make approximately $0.69 per pizza. A 14¢ increase in cost is a big deal, then.
However, one also has to realize that the cost of tomatoes, other vegetables, pepperoni, other meats, all other ingredients, transportation of those ingredients to the store, and everything else that makes up a pizza, will also rise. I'd say that he's probably underestimating his costs now; he really doesn't know how the cost increases in the world around him are going to affect him, given that he almost certainly doesn't have long-term contracts to supply ingredients at current prices for very long. All he knows is what the effect on his own cost structure will be; I doubt if anyone can very accurately predict what the total cost impact to the economy will be. The CBO is notoriously bad at predicting such things. They'll generate tons of pretty charts and graphs, but they have no more than an idea… and a raft of footnotes to attempt to deflect the blame when their projections fail to pan out.
I have not read any of the other responses so if I say the same thing I am sorry. Screw them, there are plenty of other places to eat. They are just using this as an excuse to do what they want to do. I mean seriously, you are yanking my chain. It is just like the Dow Jones Average plunging after Obama wins a second term. You are just trying to punish me for not doing things your way. I will remember and after all this crap has come to pass I will still not eat your goddam pizza or whatever for the wa you tried to play me.
@emilianate :: Then the employees get a job at Pizza hut to absorb the excess demand and Papa John only has one golf course next to his castle.
And another thing, the problem is not actual heath care, the problem is the soul sucking insurance industry that we seem to be propping up. Screw them too.
Sorry, I am in a pretty pissy mood right now.
@rojo :: The problem is the vultures that pay the people that make your pizza barely enough to pay rent and afford to buy a pizza from where they work.
Our Gini Coefficient is around the same as China's. Basically this means that the CEO makes 1000 times what the person making the product does.
Pizza hut is not immune to Obama Care. They're going to take the same actions. Obama care is an expense that will be part of all businesses income statements, which means reduced profit margins/losses unless they raise the price of pizza. Back to square one.
@emilianate I basically agree with what you are saying and am pissed off that Obama did not have the balls to put forth a single payer system with the federal government overseeing the program. This would spread the cost over a much larger area and cover everyone in the process.
@emilianate :: So what do pizza places compete on? Is it price or quality? Or advertising?
There is huge margins in the shitty crap they call pizza. They could have a price war but do what is called "Collusion" to avoid the race to the bottom.
Little Caesars is better than Papa Johns and is five bucks for a single topping large.
No, single player would cause far more damage than Obama Care. It's the wrong solution. I'll just link you here because there is too much to talk about the subject. Cons outweigh the pros.
If the quality of the pizza is really that good, then they can get away with charging more because the buyers are willing to pay extra. Highly unlikely though with fast food pizza. The point is they're forced to take the risk of increasing prices and having the market possibly reject that price which may lead to their demise.
Look at Fedex (non-union) vs UPS (union). Fedex is always cheaper and provides a much more efficient/reliable service link It's a no brainer in my opinion to go with Fedex, but UPS does still hold there own. Hard to say.
@emilianate No, I do not believe so. I believe heath care would be more affordable and higher quality if we could elimininate the insurance middleman from the equasion.
If you eliminate the insurance man from the equation then it should be between doctors and patients. That is it. Just like any other industry. Buyers-sellers.
We should.
Hmm, something happened to that single player link, here is google's cache of it. link
@CWOTUS You missed the point; the cost increase isn't, in fact, 14 cents. Closer to 4 cents, actually. Now do you see the issue?
Of course, the root cause of the issue here is the cost of healthcare, followed by the gouging of health insurance. If we could get our costs down to where they are in the entire rest of the world (including the many places that have better patient outcomes) and bring the insurance industry to heel (sure, they are entitled to make a profit, but not at the expense of lives) then the costs passed on to businesses would be reduced.
Ok @emilianate I read the link and what I got out of it is that yes, a single payer system that eliminated private health insurance is the way to go.
Now what?
Nothing. I just linked you that so I wouldn't have to type out the cons. I see the cons canceling out all the pros.
It also isn't the case that everyone wants healthcare, especially among the young-working poor. Some would prefer an increased salary instead. My husband and I willingly asked our bosses for higher pay instead having insurance. We eat healthy, we don't smoke, and don't live a risky lifestyle. Others will argue that if something should happen to us, society will be burdened with the cost, but i'd be happy to sign waiver for emergency care if I cannot pay for it. The likelihood of something happening is slim which means if and when the day actually comes, I would have saved more than enough to pay for any emergency visit.
Geez, all this over a guy who literally gives away a large three topping absolutely free to anyone that attends a baseball game, if the pitcher gets 10 strikeouts in a game.
I've never actually purchased Papa John's pizza, but I have gotten a free pie after almost every Rays game I've attended.
That's gotta account for…. 100 pizzas worth of health insurance every game (assuming $15 for a large three topping) Just me. Plus one for my husband, and one for my son. At least once a year. Times a couple thousand people per game…
How about this: up the promo to 12 Ks in a game, and you've paid your entire staff's health insurance by not giving out free pizza quite as often.
This isn't (to me) about whether or not his margin of profit is so small that he needs to charge .14/pizza to make it up. I mean, his cost fluctuate all the time. He depends on the cost of his supplies, the cost of gasoline, the cost of utilities to the stores, the price of tomatoes, etc. Either he has a margin that can accommodate these or he doesn't. But I seem to have missed his .14/pizza price increase and political bullshit show for all of these other events.
To me this just seems like an admission that their business model is shit. If the only way you can make a profit is to have workers without health insurance, then you and your product are not worth having. Your jobs are not worth saving. You are the problem. Period.
That's an unfortunately arrogant attitude, @tom_g, from someone who doesn't have to make a payroll. Apparently the workers at Papa John's feel otherwise about their jobs, or they wouldn't be there. After all, it's a voluntary arrangement; they aren't owned by the business.
Here's what it comes down to for me. You have all these business that have full time employees, and they aren't giving them any health insurance benefits. Now they're whining when we make it mandatory, since that's an incredibly dick move on their part, when they're multi-million dollar companies (as even most of the small 50+ employee ones are).
@CWOTUS – If there were no labor laws at all (or minimum wage laws) there would be people who would take these jobs. People do what they have to do to eat. And it would be voluntary.
Could you elaborate (save the "arrogant" comments)?
@bolwerk How did you find a picture with 5 people and 9 chins?
@Adirondackwannabe: looking for populist propaganda praising fast food is a good way to start.
Oh, my company has a grand total of… wait for it… Nine employees. We all have health insurance provided at no cost to us by the company.
And I've seen the owners' houses. They're not hurting.
@CWOTUS You just illustrated that Conservatives have a weird idea of the word "voluntary".
My comments are self-explanatory regarding the voluntary nature of non-coercive employer-employee relations. If the employees at Papa John's don't like the terms of employment, wages, conditions, benefits or lack of them, then they are free to leave. The fact that they haven't indicates that at least according to them the jobs are worth having. Hence your arrogance in determining for yourself that they aren't. If you don't want to work there, then that's fine. No one is asking you to, are they?
Hmm. In the first place I'm in no way a "Conservative", although I will admit that I'm basically a conservative person in aspect. But what's weird about my use of the word "voluntary"?
If anything, the word has been perverted through government reference to Income Tax, for example, as "voluntary", and other usage such as FICA "contributions". Tell me those aren't perverted usages of common words.
In an attempt to de-personalize this somewhat and get back to the basics of my argument:
Most market transactions (at least the ones I'm familiar with in the USA, Canada, Europe and the parts of Asia that I've visited) are strictly voluntary. Willing sellers and willing buyers agreeing on prices and terms and transacting business accordingly. The same goes, for the most part, with employer – employee relations: employees agree to sell their time and talents for wages and benefits that the employer agrees to pay in exchange. Each is free (within limits) to break the agreement off, while settling past claims. Each is also free to request modification to the basic agreement. That's negotiation, and it happens in all markets to greater or lesser degree.
Now a new law – an outside party to the market – has mandated that changes have to be made by the employer. Whether you agree with his complaints of added cost and lost business or not, and it is clear that many do not, the employer still maintains the right to run his business as he sees fit. He has the right to add or subtract to his employment as he predicts the market reaction to the higher prices that he must impose on his customers.
He also has the right to go out of business if he makes bad predictions: if he overestimates the business he expects to lose when his prices necessarily rise, then by firing people now he won't have enough resources to cope with increased demand, and he will lose the business he expected to lose, and maybe more besides.
So why not just be happy that if he has guessed wrong – as so many here seem to think – then he'll go out of business sooner and all of his employees can then be "freed" to look for better jobs elsewhere. Maybe they can all work for you…
Calling him names because he objects to a policy or law that you love and support just seems to indicate to me a lack of class on the part of the name-callers.
@CWOTUS: "If the employees at Papa John's don't like the terms of employment, wages, conditions, benefits or lack of them, then they are free to leave."
So, I think we agree here that they're free to leave. We seem to disagree about the role of government in regulating business and labor. You seem to be making the case for the elimination of any labor or workplace safety laws. Right?
Please don't put words in my mouth, @tom_g. While I would generally favor much less government intervention in most employment, including the elimination of minimum wage laws, for example and for starters, I seldom make broad proclamations of "always", "none" and "never". Never say never.
In the current instance I disfavor the law and its mandates; I agree with those who claim that it will increase costs, and therefore prices to consumers – and probably result in lost business (to the extent that most business is optional and purchasing decisions are often based primarily on price) and for that reason it will inevitably lead to generally lowered employment across many industries, with the restaurant business being a prime casualty.
Why not require business to provide auto, home and life insurance to employees – heck, customers, too! – while we're at it?
@CWOTUS – I apologize for putting words in your mouth. I should have been more clear that I was not clear ("You seem to be making the case for the elimination of any labor or workplace safety laws. Right?").
Yep, we disagree here. It happens. I think we're clear on what we disagree on, however. It's much larger than health insurance.
@CWOTUS: "Why not require business to provide auto, home and life insurance to employees – heck, customers, too! – while we're at it?"
Sure! ;) Seriously, though – I'd really rather have a fully-socialized health system. But if we are not going to provide this, that leaves everyone's favorite superhero (business) to pick up the slack. You don't have to get too slippery slope here. Health insurance is something that I feel is pretty basic in a modern society.
@CWOTUS Employees are free to leave Papa Johns…. and go to another employer who will treat them in the exact same manner.
I will not shed any tears for papa johns, a company that has for years kept it's staff at just shy of enough hours to qualify for health benefits.. when suddenly a new law calls them out on it and mandates them to give staff that should've had insurance for the past decade, insurance finally.
@BhacSsylan Factcheck said they debunked it 2011, and again at the beginning of 2012, Were they fact checking the future?
@CWOTUS The "within limits" part is where things go South quickly. Many seem to be under the misguided impression that if government didn't step in, employers would treat their workers equitably. They also seem to think that job openings are more abundant than they are, so you always have the option to find a better deal elsewhere. As my own life, dozens of those close to me, thousands that I've heard about, and millions that I assume based on the fact that my attention has only been on a relatively few spots in a nation of hundreds of millions prove those both wrong, I cannot agree with optimistic theory in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
My former employer used to cover 80% of the cost of our insurance. Over the course of a few years, costs rose. I got few raises, but that was because they covered 95% of the insurance costs, which proved to me that there are ways to offset costs without layoffs, cutting hours, or otherwise fucking the workers over while also keeping profits decent. The catch is, you have to be good with money to pull that off. Having more empathy than a serial killer also helps.
Well, we agree that health insurance is a pretty basic requirement in our modern society. But we disagree about who should provide that. I think that in the same way people work (or otherwise exchange) in order to acquire the other things they need and want in life, that's something they should (choose to) work or exchange for as well. But I stop short of "requiring" them to do that, and I certainly wouldn't require it of others.
We've put ourselves in a box of "employer-provided" health insurance because it was something that was offered to some employees after WW II, when (American) employers were scrambling for high-value employees and offered it as a perk to attract them. Since it was offered as a non-cash benefit it was successfully lobbied to be excluded from the requirements of Income Tax… and so we built this stupid box that we're in now.
I would much rather see a marketplace of health insurers competing for individual account holders (the way most other insurance is sold, in fact) than the current system, in which my employer is the "account holder" (customer of the insurer) and I'm nothing more than a cost.
@CWOTUS The ideal system would be socialized… whether you'd like to accept/admit that or not.
Money should never be the primary focus of an industry that is supposed to provide us with healthcare.
@tedd Thank you – that is exactly right. Healthcare should not be run as a for-profit business. That model is just twisted.
I would much rather see a marketplace of health insurers competing for individual account holders
The problem with that is insurers will give young people insurance, and drop them when they reach a certain age.
For efficiency, the pool has to be as large as possible. Young people pay in more than they use, and older people will use more.
That's how first world countries handle it. The US doesn't . Instead we spend twice as much per person and get worse results.
^ We already see this with life insurance. Oh, you're 85 now? No longer covered. And with car insurance. Oh, you're 21? You get to pay double. Why? Because we say so. We don't care that your driving record is perfect.
@cheebdragon huh? What do you mean? The claim appeared at least twice, so they called it out both times, is that what you're talking about?
@CWOTUS Group discounts are unavailable to individuals. It would cost me far more to insure myself than what my employer and I combined pay for the coverage I have. But good luck getting consumers to coordinate their own groups, and we know current insurance companies won't revamp their pricing structure anytime soon. So yes, we put ourselves in a box that is going to be hard to get out of.
@Seek_Kolinahr, young drivers pay higher premiums because they are a higher risk. I've always heard that statistically male drivers have more accidents and are prone to riskier behavior and their premiums are usually higher. I have never heard of a life insurance company dropping someone because they were elderly.
@BhacSsylan Both articles were written before most of these taxes even go into effect, do they have a crystal ball for fact checking the future?
Wow. Well, first I have to ask the same of you then, where did your claim come from, then, the same ball? I notice you didn't source anything when claiming that, and those costs are still not in effect. However, the reason they can fact check it is because that particular claim comes from a twisting of a CBO report released earlier. So they can't say that it will not happen, but they can say that the particular claim is incorrect and a misrepresentation of the study.
@Seek_Kolinahr I have never heard of a person losing their life insurance. If they have term insureance it ends at a certain date, but the person knows when they buy it. As far as young drivers, usually after they druve for a few years without incident their premiums drop, bit i itially the insurance company goes with the general statistitcs on risk as @bkcunningham pointed out. Later the insurance company will switch to stats of the individual.
I have never heard of a person losing their life insurance
You divorce and your spouse had the insurance – out you go.
You lose your job – see ya!!
You could be like this guy- FOX News – Man dropped from health insurance in the middle of cancer treatment
This next one is about new applications, not dropping current customers, but it still illustrates the problem with being part of the You-Are-On-Your-Own-Good-Luck!! insurance plan:
USA Today – Health insurance denial rates routinely 20%, data show
US citizens pay TWICE as much for health care as first world countries. Our system is not good. It is not defensible.
Pizza is not a necessity of life and not the only kind of business with employees. All kinds of businesses with have to abide by the new rules such as utility companies for example. Those guys who repair transmission cables in the dead of the night in the freezing rain? Rates are probably going to increase some which will create a need for more customers to go on assistance or lay off technicians which could cause it to take much longer to get a grid back up. Laying off good workers in any kind of business is something that is begrudgingly done out of necessity, not spite.
Since, in the long run, Obamacare is supposed to reduce insurance costs, I wonder if these companies will then lower their prices for us? Somehow, I doubt it.
@jaytkay, the insurance discussion you are adding to is about a life insurance company dropping you because you are too old. It is a comment that @Seek_Kolinahr made earlier. You made some good points, but they aren't relevant to the point of life insurance companies dropping elderly customers.
@jaytkay: @jleslie was talking about life insurance and you are talking about health insurance, yes? Two different things…..
@jca The topic is medical insurance. Jumping back another step in the thread, I believe @Seek_Kolinahr may have meant medical.
But yes, I see now that @JLeslie specifically said life insurance.
@augustlan Lowering long-term costs for the benefit of all (workers and employers, as well as being enough additional people that any money they lose on lower premiums is more than made back by having far more customers) would require a short-term profit reduction. Therefore, fuck everybody; they would rather destroy the universe than ever slow that to happen. Don't believe me? How else would you explain their behavior that is callous to the point of self-destruction, and rather nihilistic? The long-term doesn't matter.
Jeez, I can't believe I read this whole thread. I thought the health care debacle was already resolved. It has passed, it was upheld by the Supreme Court, and Obama was re-elected. It's over. If Papa John's wants to raise prices to cover the added costs, either let him or nationalize the damned business. Most of you seem to think the government is a model of efficiency and light. Let them do it. You've already got a guy in office that is not above firing the CEO and taking control of a business (GM) so do it. Hell, let's just nationalize everything. That way you get your utopia and no one can object without being jailed. I love it when a plan comes together.
I get a kick out of the selective use of slippery slope and the complete lack of acknowledgement that the US is unique among "developed nations" and its ranking as 37th best health care.
It's also interesting how liberals simultaneously get attacked as being anti-government, ACLU freedom fundamentalists who are also light on crime, and somehow also supporters of an authoritarian police state ("That way you get your utopia and no one can object without being jailed."). Call me a snob, but I don't think it's unreasonable to demand that everyone be exposed to college level critical reasoning classes in high school. You wouldn't be able to get away with this stuff well into adulthood.
Oh, as long as we're talking about what we like…
I like how "health care" is equated to "health outcome", as if they're the same thing.
@Jaxk It's one thing to raise prices because the cost of cheese went up, but another to ron peoples lives because of your ideology. And when the government is preferable to the existing system, that tells you that the existing system is fucked up. Government intervention is something to be avoided, but I think out better to avoid it by having companies do a better job than government instead of trying to neuter government so that companies can be utter shitheads.
So quit whining about the wrong side of the equation, and tell private industry that they are inferior to something that is proven to suck. If privatization it's so great, why is it that the marketplace prefers government over it? Maybe because, as bad as it is, government is a superior product, and the free market is working as intended?
"You wouldn't be able to get away with this stuff well into adulthood."
I'm just curious what this means. Would you have me shot, institutionalized, or just reprogrammed? Kind of 1984ish. A movie before it's time.
And just for the record, I would NEVER accuse liberals of being anti-government.
Yes, the world is crying for an Obama thin crust, vegetarian pizza. Sounds yummy. And as an added plus, we'll make the rich guys pay for it. Hell if that's not utopia, what is?
@Jaxk: "I'm just curious what this means. Would you have me shot, institutionalized, or just reprogrammed? Kind of 1984ish. A movie before it's time."
Ok. Now I know you're just f*cking with me.
@Jaxk: "And just for the record, I would NEVER accuse liberals of being anti-government."
Oh, good. Sorry if I lumped you in with those that accuse us of being morally bankrupt that we want the government out of our bodies and our bedrooms, or when we want to be able to legalize drugs, or when we would like the ability to marry the person we love, or when we fiercely advocate for free speech.
But could you please stop with the horseshit that we're heading towards a dystopian nightmare because we are progressing towards the rest of the developed world, like the UK? Make fish and chips jokes, but keep Orwell out of it.
Once again, you misread me. I didn't ask to be dropped from the roles of those that think liberals are morally bankrupt. Hell, I'm a charter member. I do realize that you have very specific rules on what government should be involved in. You want the government out of the bedroom but want free birth control. You want free speech but only when it agrees with you. You want diversity in everything except thought (kind of misses the whole point). You want to legalize drugs but outlaw fatty foods, or large drinks, or salt, or whatever suits your fancy. You want choice but only choices you like.
Sorry, I seem to be heading towards that dystopian nightmare you hate. No fish and chips issues until you guys decide to outlaw them as well. Deep fat fried, you know.
@Jaxk Free birth control costs less than unwanted children. But if you would rather expand the foster care systemand increase medical costs at taxpayer expense just because you are too shortsighted to understand the concept of spending a little now to reduce long-term costs then I cannot take you seriously about financial matters. I mean, I thought your objection was (at least in part) about cost control.
As for wanting free speech, but only that which agrees with is, I have seen more attempts from your side of the fence quash dissenting voices than from those of us on the side that consider dissenting opinions and ridicule to also be covered under the First Amendment. You know the old saying, "I may hate what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it."? If we truly wanted to silence you for disagreeing, we would have tried. Instead, we consider the mindless drivel and untruths to be a small price to pay for retaining the right to say, "You're full of shit!".
@Jaxk: "You want the government out of the bedroom but want free birth control."
Looks like @jerv addressed this one.
@Jaxk: "You want free speech but only when it agrees with you."
Really? That would mean that I am not a supporter of free speech. I don't get this one at all. Maybe you could explain.
@Jaxk: "You want diversity in everything except thought (kind of misses the whole point)."
Again, is this code for something? I don't understand what you are referring to here.
@Jaxk: "You want to legalize drugs but outlaw fatty foods, or large drinks, or salt, or whatever suits your fancy."
Again – really? I do? Strange. I don't ever recall taking this position.
@Jaxk: "You want choice but only choices you like."
I haven't seen someone take this many swings at a straw man in a long time. Did it feel good?
Liberal stance, the way I understand it, is they want to give individuals all the social freedoms they want, but then when individuals screw up their lives and it comes time to suffer the consequences, liberals remove individual freedom by forcing society as a whole to bailout all those individuals who ruined their lives, instead of allowing them to have the freedom to suffer the consequences. .
So the obvious knee-jerk liberal response to this would be that if you don't want to help, you're anti-empathy/compassion for your fellow man. Well then the obvious response to the liberals is if you love your fellow man so much, why didn't you force individuals to behave properly at all times so they never get to screw up their lives? The communists, for example, use to give 1 portion per person and when someone came for second portions, they were not allowed to have one. It wasn't because there was a shortage (although there was one later on in years, no thanks to the government), it was because a second portion isn't healthy for you since the first portion was adequate. A second portion would eventually make you obese over the years, stretching the stomach. The second portion becomes 3rd, 4th, etc. This and among other negative health effects (medical science confirms this).
But liberals find this method repulsive since it's anti-freedom, yet when it comes time to suffering, they don't mind instituting the very thing they despise.
Typical liberal response. You offer a solution but never look back to see if it worked. During the last 3 or so decades we seen the growth of abortions and birth control. The last number I saw said 99% of women have used birth control. So there's no shortage of methods to control unwanted pregnancy. Yet in 1980 there were 300,000 children that had spent some time in orphanages or foster care. By 2005 the number had grown to 800,000. Your theory hasn't worked. Teach the kids how to have sex in school, give them free rubbers and birth control, promote abortions when that doesn't work and you still have more unwanted children, more unwed mothers, and more foster kids than before you started. Maybe it's time to rethink this ridiculous theory you've come up with.
Free Speech – wasn't it you liberals that pushed for the 'Fairness Doctrine' to try and shut down talk radio? You tried liberal talk radio but no one wanted to hear that crap so you decided to silence the other side. Hasn't worked yet but I know you'll keep trying.
The rest of this is fairly covered in @emilianate's response. If you don't do the right things we'll bail you out but also legislate that you have to do the right things. Of course liberals will define what is the right thing.
Not sure where you're going with the birth control stuff, but I'm under the impression that we've made some serious progress. Here are some numbers from the CDC. Also, while teen pregancy rates are at an all-time low in the US, there are some states that are doing better than others. I'm not sure what's going on in those red states, but we seem to be doing ok here in the liberal wasteland of Massachusetts (see the list).
Anyway, I know nothing about this Fairness Doctrine, other than it was introduced by the FCC in 1949, but I am against every imaginable type of censorship. Seriously.
@Jaxk: "If you don't do the right things we'll bail you out but also legislate that you have to do the right things."
Again, this type of language is going over my head. It might fly in certain circles, but I'm seriously missing what you're talking about. Maybe you could enlighten me on what I do or do not support.
@Jaxk: Increased numbers of children in foster care and/or orphanages may be due, at least in part, to the popularity of crack (cocaine) which really exploded around 1988, and also more stringent laws regarding child welfare, neglect and abuse, and the enforcement of such, which results in removals of children from their homes, either temporarily or permanently.
@Jaxk Typical Conservative response. You want to try something that had has been proven to be bad in the hopes that it will work out better.
We won't even get into confusing correlation with causation as unwanted pregnancy and (especially) teen pregnancy isn't really an issue in Europe; it seems to be an American problem.
When it comes to shutting down talk radio, that often has more to do with slander or inciting hatred than with suppression of ideas. Tell you what though; if you manage to purge the people who responded, "Kill the nigger!" when they heard the 2012 election results from your side, and get Fox to start doing enough fact-checking that Fox viewers are not provably more ignorant than those who don't follow the news at all, then we will no longer attack talk radio. However, for somebody who seems to strongly opposed the other side being able to speak their mind and make rebuttals, you sure are making a lot of noise.
I can guarantee that you would bitch even more if we got rid of the Fairness Doctrine altogether and had you banned from Fluther though, so try and see how policies affect you for the better.See, if the Fairness Doctrine were reinstated, then the Liberal media would have to allow Conservatives to speak. Just like the economy, you are supporting policies against your own self-interest.
@emilianate If you are all about having people suffer for the consequences of their actions, we could legalize beating of those with dissenting opinions…. and according to the latest election results, you and @Jaxk were in the minority, not only here, but nationwide. Gawd knows how much violence your side wants with all of it's talk about "Second amendment solutions".
Personally, I favor a system where the first portion is free, the next (insert reasonable number here) are for sale, and nobody is allowed to buy the entire fucking stock and single-handedly induce shortages. You favor being able to walk out with the entire pantry and let life itself be a luxury item. But I am a fucking Liberal because I don't let you have the shirt off my back and the food out of my mouth? The more you talk, the more you sound like a true danger to society. At least @Jaxk is just a cranky old man (and a rather intelligent one, despite his occasionally myopic views on some things), but you….
That doesn't make any sense. No freedom supporter would hold such a stance as "we could legalize beating of those with dissenting opinions…" That would be anti-freedom. 2nd amendment right is for defense against governments that try to take freedom away or against civilians that attempt to do the same.
The rest of your arguments proves my point, thank you. Contradictions of the highest order.
You linked to a survey conducted by the Fairleigh Dickinson University. This is one of the worst universities in the America – ranked 556 overall out of 650, and you used them as a legitimate polling source. Even the way they conducted the study is illegitimate
@emilianate In that case, you now know how most people feel when people like you talk about economics. But if half-truths, shoddy methodology, and bullshit are good enough for your side….
And funny of you to talk about contradictions when your ideology is full of nothing but contradictions. I include inconsistencies, double standards, and supporting self-defeating policies under "contradictions" simply as all are where your actions and stated desires conflict with your stated goals.
@emilianate Et tu? I need not point out any counter-examples because they are so prevalent that the only way you could miss them is intentional ignorance. I include some of your posts in that category.
@cheebdragon I go where experience and historical fact lead me. I'm not saying Liberals always have it right, but they seem to have it less wrong less often. But if you honestly believe that Obama was POTUS in 2008, that negative is greater than double-digit positive, and that your shit doesn't stink, that is your prerogative.
Everytime I go away for a day or two I come back and there's 35 f-ing new messages in a thread. Ain't nobody got time for dat!
@BhacSsylan I don't even need a crystal ball to figure out that factcheck.org can not predict the future. To me, It's common sense, but everyone is different I guess….
Anyway, lets try going straight to the source, to clear up any confusion…
"CBO estimates that the legislation, on net, will reduce the amount of labor used in the economy by a small amount—roughly half a percent—primarily by reducing the amount of labor that workers choose to supply."
"Some provisions of the legislation will discourage people from working more hours or entering the workforce, and other provisions will encourage them to work more. Moreover, many people will be unaffected by those provisions and will face the same incentives regarding work as they otherwise would have."
"Because the legislation will affect individuals' decisions on both whether to participate in the workforce and the number of hours they work, its effect on employment is difficult to predict. If the legislation did not affect the average number of hours worked per employed person, CBO projects that it would reduce household employment in 2021 by about 800,000. However, because the legislation will probably affect average hours worked among those employed, the effect on employment will be somewhat different."
"*The projections of the budgetary impact and other impacts of health care legislation are quite uncertain because assessing the effects of making broad changes in the nation's health care and health insurance systems—or of reversing scheduled changes—requires assumptions about a broad array of technical, behavioral, and eco- nomic factors. *" Source
"Surveys of employers regarding their plans for offering health insurance coverage in the future offer conflicting findings. For example, Mercer (a leading human resources consulting firm) conducted a survey in the late summer of 2011 and found that about 9 percent of all surveyed employers with 500 or more employees said they were likely to stop offering health insurance coverage to their workers after 2014.17 Much higher levels of employers' dropping of health benefits were predicted in a survey conducted by McKinsey & Company (a leading international management consulting firm). In June 2011, McKinsey reported that about 30 percent of employers said they would "definitely or probably" stop offering health insurance coverage to their employees after 2014, and more than 50 percent of employers with a high awareness of the ACA's provisions stated that they would "definitely or probably" drop coverage.18 In contrast, another survey conducted in May 2011 by the International Foundation of Employee Benefit Plans found that between 1 percent and 3 percent of employers plan to eliminate health benefits for active employees, new workers that they will hire, workers' dependents, or retirees.19 And yet another survey conducted in May 2011 found that nearly 19 percent of employers said they would consider eliminating health insurance coverage in 2014."—Source
@cheebdragon You are still misrepresenting the source. They are not projecting a loss of jobs they are projecting people deciding not to work because they don't have to. How can you not understand the distinction?
Also, the CBO can't predict the future, but neither can you, and that's what started this whole thing off.
Here in case you still don't understand:
Your claim:
"The 800,000 people already at risk of losing their jobs from obamacare"
CBO claim, from which that 800000 number came from:
"CBO estimates that the legislation, on net, will reduce the amount of labor used in the economy by a small amount—roughly half a percent—primarily by reducing the amount of labor that workers choose to supply."
Not laid off, not losing their job, choosing to not work.


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Geoff Mullen Discography
Bongo Closet
Using the guitar, synthesizer and a selection of well-developed processes, Mullen has come up with a unique sound difficult to pigeonhole. Throughout the album the sounds feel so effortlessly unified that one can completely forget the individual instruments themselves. It is hard to believe that the synthesizer used (the legendary Yamaha CS50) is the baby brother of the CS80, heard so distinctively piped into Deckard's electric dreams in Blade Runner. The distant, dusty tones and pulsating rhythms bring to mind instead memories of early Popol Vuh or something altogether more defiant. As a veteran guitarist, writing 'Bongo Closet' was Mullen's search for different ways of playing music, and these weathered, deeply personal songs are the result. Rich with emotion and surprisingly detailed, there is the sense that the technology never informs the creative process. Mullen is using his chosen instruments without a care for what they can and can't do – they are tools in the creation of his music, never the other way around.
'Bongo Closet' is an intensely human listening experience. Teeming with life and breathing as it coughs and splutters, there is an unavoidable attachment felt almost instantly as a listener. This is music that drags you in and simply refuses to let go.

subset: commoncrawl


text: Gallery: Putnam in Pictures, Friday, Jan. 25 Jan. 27, 2013 @ 09:35 PM The Herald-Dispatch / 2014 Did you miss something in Putnam County this week? Chances are, one of our photographers was there. Prev | Next Purchase this photo Billy Summers/The Putnam Herald Scott Teays Elementary School students Brooklyn Blackwell and Elana Clark pose for a photo on Saturday, Jan. 19, 2013, in Winfield. ()


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Joss Whedon on Writing 'Avengers 2': 'Enormous Fun, Followed by Deep Panic' (Video)
The writer-director spoke to THR on the red carpet at the MTV Movie Awards on Sunday.
At the MTV Movie Awards on Sunday, Joss Whedon was reunited with some of the stars of The Avengers onstage when the film won for best fight. The writer-director took the stage with Tom Hiddleston, Samuel L. Jackson and Chris Evans to accept the award.
Whedon already is hard at work on the sequel to the superhero ensemble film. On the red carpet before the show, he noted that he's nearly done with the first draft.
PHOTOS: MTV Movie Awards: Selena Gomez, Joss Whedon, Kim Kardashian Hit the Red Carpet
"It's been enormous fun, followed by deep, deep panic," Whedon tells THR. "I'm in the deep panic stage now. Actually, I've gone past panic into a vague nether-stage."
Whedon says that because he did the "meet and greet" in the first film, which starred Robert Downey Jr., Evans, Mark Ruffalo, Chris Hemsworth, Scarlett Johansson, Jeremy Renner and Hiddleston, he can "really slam them together and beat them up and figure out what makes them tick."
The Avengers, which hit theaters May 4, 2012, became the top film of 2012 at the box office, grossing more than $1.5 billion worldwide. Whedon was confirmed to write and direct the sequel in August. It's scheduled to hit theaters in summer 2015.
VIDEO: Aubrey Plaza Awkwardly Interrupts Will Ferrell's Speech at MTV Movie Awards
Whedon spoke to THR about his decision to take on a sequel.
"I sat down and thought about it, 'Do I have a story to tell?' Same thing I thought before the first one. ... It took me 40 minutes to realize not only did I have a story, but I was in love with it."
While the plot of the sequel has been kept secret, Whedon did give THR a hint about what the Avengers could be up against in the film.
"Themselves," he says. "We're all our own worst enemy."
Watch THR's interview with Whedon above.
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Turkey's Interaction with Other Actors in the Balkans |
Balkans |
17/05/2011 10:36 |
With the slowing of EU accession talks for the Western Balkans, Turkey has found new opportunities to expand relations throughout the region, but not without competition from major external state actors (United States, EU, and Russia) in both political and economic realms. Turkey is set to fill the 'overseer' power vacuum left in the Balkans due to stalling regional EU accession talks, which includes Turkey's own slowed accession process.
The EU has only given reasonable EU accession hope to Croatia, which is likely to enter the union in 2013, while other countries have experienced untimely roadblocks in their accession path. Aside from the EU's solid support for Croatia's upcoming eventual accession and funding through the EU's Europe Aid (IPA-Instrument for Pre-Accession) instruments, most of these countries' relations with the Balkans have been done on a bilateral and non-governmental basis. For example, with regards to Kosovo, the EU is fairly unsure of how to act; while stating that it sees a 'European future' for Kosovo and its' predominantly youthful population, Kosovo is becoming increasingly isolated, left out of the EU's visa-free regime with the rest of the Balkans. The EU as a whole cannot even act in a unified manner towards the new nation-state, since 5 of its members (Spain, Romania, Cyprus, Slovakia, and Greece) don't recognize the country. As of recently, only 117 out of 192 member countries of the UN recognize the country's existence. The U.S. has reiterated its' position over Kosovo (dating its' allegiance back to the NATO bombing of Belgrade), serving as the new nation's de facto guardian until its stability can be assured. The U.S. having nearly 1,400 troops still serving in a peace keeping strategy reinforces its' interest in having a safer Kosovo.
The United States: Passively Watchful Eye Within the Balkans, Turkey has stronger relations with particular countries, namely Albania, Kosovo, and Bosnia/Herzegovina. These countries are also particular key interests for the United States as well. Turkey, being an ally of the U.S., has enjoyed relative freedom in dealing with these countries, as their intentions for these countries are aligned with U.S. wishes to see the region enter the European Union and NATO.(1) While the U.S. has remained a stable presence in the region, the area has not been a priority as the on-going war in Afghanistan, the state-building process in Iraq, and concerns of a stronger Iran have drawn American focus away from the Balkans. In late March, a U.S.-Balkans summit was held state-side regarding opportunities for commerce in the region (with the exception of Serbian representatives, which continue to uphold a policy of refusing to attend meetings in which Kosovar representatives are present). The meeting, meant to entice U.S. businesses to invest in the Balkans, was seen as generally successful and critical to spurring general trade to the region. With the meeting it is hoped that American investment will help the region experience a 'bandwagon' effect that encouraged trade to a region that has traditionally been seen as risky investment due to the historical instability. The United States views the region as hopeful if it continues the economic, judicial and social reforms needed for social harmony and stability in the region.
The only hiccup in this generally positive process has been growing regional concerns of Saudi-funded Wahabbist and Salafi movements, both forms whose archaic/traditional practice have been viewed as a threat in the Balkans (which has Muslim populations with a unique and characteristically Sunni tradition of Islam). These claims have caught the eye of the Americans also because these concerns have similarly been raised by Israel. Israel has been experiencing a Kosovo-like isolation due to its' fallout with Turkey, and is reaching out to new relations with the Balkans as a result, including Romania and Bulgaria in these renewed relations as well. The role of the Orthodox Church in the region isn't often brought to the foreground, but this regional influence was critical in directing regional politics during the region's wars. Bringing these religious leaders to the negotiation table is just as important as talking to the regions' muftis about bringing solutions to the region. Given its' supportive track record, Turkey holds significant influence over these regional Muslim populations, and can help quell American and Balkan concerns by uprooting (not only exclusive to Islam but Orthodox Christian) regional extremism that exploit the social fragility of the Balkans.
Serbia has been a tricky stepping ground for Turkey, because it's a strategically important country that is a key to regional security. Turkey and Serbia have been strengthening their relations, but the Russian influence in Serbia is undeniable. Although Serbia is now included in the EU's new visa-liberalization scheme, many of the country's citizens are merely content with reaching this goal, unlike pushing for full membership as (Serbian president) Tadić has slated on Belgrade's short-term agenda. This potential lack of impetus could have left the door ajar for Russia. Despite U.S. concerns that Serbia is being used as a pawn in Russian regional politics,(2) Russia continues to use historical Slavic/Orthodox ties as its' link to Serbia, supporting Serbia and its' refusal to recognize Kosovo (which would also have an impact over Russia's own Chechnya' issue). Such moves have gained Russia, namely Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, support throughout the country, along with Serbs in northern Kosovo and Bosnia's Republika Srpska.
Turkey is playing tit-for-tat with these numerous foreign governmental and non-governmental actors throughout the Balkans through a variety of means. Aside from the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Turkey's development organization TIKA also serves in various capacities, developing facilities and training qualified officials throughout the region. In addition to Turkey's Ministry of Education which has promoted inter-scholar exchange between Turkey and Balkan countries, individual state municipalities and private religious foundations within Turkey have also contributed funds for various educational and religious projects throughout Balkan countries. Aside from other lucrative trade and military contracts between Turkey and Balkan countries, Turkey's bi-lateral development aid alone to Balkan countries reached just over $100 million in 2009. This can be viewed as a drop in the bucket compared to bigger regional actors like the EU, which has given over €7 billion to the region since the breakup of Yugoslavia in 1991. But for a rising economic power like Turkey, such a large (and increasingly growing) yearly award package cannot be overlooked, and demonstrates Turkey's newfound commitment to the region. Turkey is quickly making allies and inking contracts as many EU countries and the U.S. have cooled relations with the region due to numerous regional governance and security issues.
Aside from Russia, Turkey is the second external actor that has made significant gains in the region, and this alone has attracted the attention of other major outside influences in the region. Whether they'll act united or independently on how to coordinate efforts with Turkey, time will tell. One thing is certain: to ensure confidence-building measures and a stronger local public opinion, external forces in the Balkans will need to coordinate their efforts and see a united positive force that wants to see a progressive Balkans relationship; otherwise, it could be a case of a 'too many cooks spoil the pot' potential scenario, a fragile situation that the Balkans cannot risk once more. Turkey, perched on top of its' recent regional successes in multiple negotiation circles, is now more poised than ever to take that 'head chef' role. How the country successfully utilizes its' soft power towards helping these Balkan nations negotiate their own identities, in addition to solidifying Turkey's newly created self-identity as a regional negotiator, will be critical in determining whether this regional returnee can survive and lead in a Balkan territory overrun by conflicting external influences and interests.
(1) Philip, Gordon H. 'Overview of U.S. Relations with Europe and Eurasia.' House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Europe and Eurasia. Washington D.C. March 10, 2011. <http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/2011/158214.htm>. (2) Tanner, Adam. "Russia aims to draw Serbia away from the West: cables." Reuters. March 21, 2011. <http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/21/us-serbia-russia-usa-idUSTRE72K2UP20110321>. (3) Biocina, Marko. 'Croatia, Russia sign South Stream contract.' Southeast European Times. March 4th, 2011. <http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/features/2010/03/04/feature-02>. (4) 'Macedonia Harshens Tone Towards EU and US critics.' Balkans Insight. March 14, 2011. <http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonia-boosts-negative-remarks-towards-eu-and-usa>. |


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This item may be Check for Availability Killing Ché: A Novelby Chuck Pfarrer
Synopses & ReviewsPublisher Comments:Chuck Pfarrer's acclaimed Warrior Soul has been called one of the finest memoirs of modern Special Operations Forces. Now the decorated Navy SEAL makes his dazzling fiction debut with this gutsy, riveting thriller about the action-packed hunt for history's most infamous rebel insurgent: Che Guevara.
The year is 1967. Paul Hoyle, a CIA paramilitary officer, has resigned from the agency an incident in Laos that left one man dead and Hoyle's face scarred by gunshot. But Hoyle is soon drawn back into the agency's fold, finding himself a "fallen angel," an independent contractor the U.S. secretly sends to global hot spots. Bolivia, the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere, is a nation ripe for Communist infiltration and revolution. So the stage is set for a duel between world ideologies, with players from Washington to Moscow to Havana. After a Bolivian army unit is disastrously ambushed, Hoyle is dispatched to South America by a CIA concerned that another Vietnam may be in the works. With Cuban-sponsored guerrillas afoot and a corrupt Bolivian military opposing them, Hoyle finds the jungle a treacherous place where honor and morality are surrendered to the basic business of survival. Though Che Guevara, the charismatic revolutionary who helped Castro take hold in Cuba, is believed to have been killed in the Congo–or executed by Fidel himself–a rucksack recovered after a deadly gunfight suggests that the Marxist rebel may be heading up this new, highly effective insurgency. World-weary Hoyle draws ever nearer to the passionate revolutionary, as a struggle between worldviews is fought with automatic weapons in steamy jungles, veiled threats in government offices, and even exchanged secrets in hotel bedrooms–for at the center of this intense cat-and-mouse game are two captivating women who may hold the keys to these men's destinies. Tania Vünke is Guevara's crucial undercover operative and occasional lover, a conflicted woman with secrets entrusted to her by Guevara himself. And beautiful Maria Agular is the elegant mistress of the Bolivian minister of information, a tormented soul whom Hoyle dares to trust with both information and his heart. Terrorism expert Chuck Pfarrer packs this electrifying plot with insider knowledge of intelligence tradecraft. Populated with powerfully drawn characters, Killing Che is a stunning re-creation of a conflict that sealed the fate of one of the twentieth century's most controversial and complex political figures–a man whose renown continues to grow decades after his violent end. Review:"In this ambitious, meticulous thriller, Pfarrer's first novel, set in 1967, CIA officer Paul Hoyle travels to Bolivia to participate in an operation to eliminate the leftist revolutionary Che Guevara. As Hoyle descends deeper and deeper into a web of suspect alliances and unsavory types, he begins to have doubts about his mission. His admiration for Guevara is one problem. Another comes in the form of a romance with Maria Agular, who works for a government ministry. Unfortunately, this romance never rises above clich ('not only did they delight in making love, they enjoyed each other's company'). Far more convincing is Guevara's relationship with his lover 'Tania' (Heidi Tamara Vnke). Pfarrer, an ex-Navy Seal and author of the memoir Warrior Soul, is unwilling or unable to give the iconic figure of Guevara a personal life that feels lived in or comfortable. Still, the action moves forward at a brisk pace, and the research never overwhelms the reader. If the novel falters somewhat in the last pages, it's precisely because of the failure to fully imagine Guevara the private individual." Publishers Weekly (Copyright Reed Business Information, Inc.)
Synopsis:Sent to Bolivia in 1967 with a team of Green Berets to eliminate a threatened communist insurgency and its leader, Ernesto Che Guevara, CIA agent Paul Hoyle becomes involved with an unlikely ally, an illegal KGB operative pursuing a deadly Soviet agenda, that puts Hoyle on a collision course with the murder of Che Guevara. By the author of Warrior Soul. A first novel. 15,000 first printing.
Synopsis:Chuck Pfarrer is the author of Warrior Soul: The Memoir of a Navy SEAL. A counterterrorism consultant to the U.S. and foreign governments, he is also a screenwriter whose credits include The Jackal, Darkman, Red Planet, Hard Target, Virus, and Navy SEALs. He lives in Michigan.
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the new school
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A Doll for All Organs: Parsons Alumna Receives Patent for Thesis Project
Parsons BFA Integrated Design alumna
Polina Ulendeeva
recently received a U.S. patent for her thesis project,
Comfort. Play. Teach
, a toy that educates children about human anatomy in a way that is both didactic and entertaining.
The plush dolls unzip to reveal various organs and come with a coloring book and set of washable markers. Each page of the coloring book educates children about a different organ with illustrations and clues to help identify them. Through this process, children are taught how the body works as a living system.
"My project was influenced by such classic children's toys as
The Visible Man and Operation
," said Ulendeeva. "I also was inspired by the many contemporary works produced by young artists and designers, such as Ugly Dolls [the popular toys created by a pair of Parsons alumni], the store Kid Robot, and the television show South Park."
Now that she has received the patent, Ulendeeva is reaching out to major toy companies, with the hope of having the dolls on the market in the near future.
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text: well even though i have never actually been to japan, i do intend to go at some point in time, i may also most likely live there. i really guess that i should wait until i see what it is actually like before i decide to live there. i've only read stuff ^^"


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Sanam Baloch during shooting of Asghari Akbari
Sanam Baloch during shooting of Asghari Akbari
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text:
Camptosar Side Effects
Generic Name: irinotecan
Note: This document contains side effect information about irinotecan. Some of the dosage forms listed on this page may not apply to the brand name Camptosar.
Some side effects of Camptosar may not be reported. Always consult your doctor or healthcare specialist for medical advice. You may also report side effects to the FDA.
For the Consumer
Applies to irinotecan: intravenous solution
Along with its needed effects, irinotecan (the active ingredient contained in Camptosar) may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.
Check with your doctor or nurse immediately if any of the following side effects occur while taking irinotecan:
More common- Anxiety
- black, tarry stools
- blood in the urine or stools
- blurred vision
- changes in skin color
- chest pain or discomfort
- chest tightness or heaviness
- chills
- clay colored stools
- cold hands and feet
- confusion
- constricted pupils
- cough or hoarseness
- dark urine
- diarrhea with or without stomach cramps or sweating
- dizziness
- fainting
- fast, slow, or irregular heartbeat
- fever
- full or bloated feeling or pressure in the stomach
- headache
- increased production of saliva
- increased tear production
- itching
- lightheadedness when getting up suddenly from a lying or sitting position
- loss of appetite
- low blood pressure or pulse
- lower back or side pain
- nausea or vomiting
- numbness or tingling in the face, arms, or legs
- pain
- pain in the chest, groin, or legs, especially calves of the legs
- pain in the shoulders, arms, jaw, or neck
- painful or difficult urination
- pale skin
- pinpoint red spots on the skin
- redness or swelling of the leg
- runny nose
- severe headache of sudden onset
- shortness of breath or troubled breathing
- skin rash
- slow breathing
- slurred speech
- sore throat
- stomach pain
- stopping of the heart
- sudden and severe weakness in the arm or leg on one side of the body
- sudden loss of coordination
- sudden vision changes
- sweating
- swelling
- swelling of the abdomen or stomach area
- temporary blindness
- tenderness, pain, or swelling of the arm, foot, or leg
- trouble with speaking or walking
- ulcers, sores, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth
- unconsciousness
- unpleasant breath odor
- unusual bleeding or bruising
- unusual tiredness or weakness
- vomiting of blood
- warm, red feeling over the body
- yellow eyes or skin
- Bleeding gums
- coughing up blood
- decreased urination
- difficulty with swallowing
- dryness of the mouth
- increased menstrual flow or vaginal bleeding
- increased thirst
- nosebleeds
- paralysis
- prolonged bleeding from cuts
- sneezing
- wheezing
- wrinkled skin
- Decreased amount of urine
- decreased frequency of urination
- fast, irregular, or troubled breathing
- hives
- increased blood pressure
- puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue
- rapid weight gain
- Abdominal or stomach pain and tenderness
- agitation
- bloated or full feeling
- burning, crawling, itching, numbness, prickling, "pins and needles", or tingling feelings
- coma
- constipation
- depression
- heartburn or indigestion
- hostility
- irritability
- lethargy
- muscle pain and cramps
- muscle twitching
- pain in the stomach, side, or abdomen, possibly radiating to the back
- pain or discomfort in the arms, jaw, back, or neck
- rectal bleeding
- severe abdominal or stomach cramping or burning
- severe and continuing nausea
- stupor
- swelling of the face, lower legs, ankles, fingers, or hands
- tightness in the chest
- unusual tiredness or weakness
- vomiting of material that looks like coffee grounds
Some side effects of irinotecan may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects. Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them:
More common- Acid or sour stomach
- belching
- blistering, peeling, redness, or swelling of the palms of hands or bottoms of the feet
- cracked lips
- excess air or gas in the stomach or intestines
- feeling of constant movement of self or surroundings
- numbness, pain, tingling, or unusual sensations in the palms of hands or bottoms of feet
- passing gas
- right upper abdominal or stomach pain and fullness
- sensation of spinning
- sleepiness or unusual drowsiness
- sleeplessness
- stomach discomfort, upset, or pain
- trouble sleeping
- unable to sleep
- weight loss
- Hiccups
For Healthcare Professionals
Applies to irinotecan: intravenous solution
"Early" diarrhea usually occurs during or shortly after dosage administration. It may appear as a component of early cholinergic syndrome and may be preceded by complaints of diaphoresis and abdominal cramping. Symptoms may usually be quickly ameliorated by atropine.
Late diarrhea can be prolonged, may lead to dehydration and electrolyte imbalance and can be life threatening. Late diarrhea should be treated promptly with aggressive high dose loperamide therapy. The patient may be treated with 4 mg at the first loose stool or increase in frequency of bowel movements and every 2 hours until the patient is diarrhea-free for 12 hours. Patients with severe diarrhea should be carefully monitored and given fluid and electrolyte replacement if they become dehydrated. Administration of irinotecan (the active ingredient contained in Camptosar) should be interrupted if severe diarrhea occurs and the dose may need to be reduced.
Ulcerative and ischemic colitis can be complicated by ulceration, bleeding, ileus, obstruction, and infection, including typhlitis. Patients experiencing ileus should receive prompt antibiotic support.
Gastrointestinal side effects including "early" diarrhea occurring within 24 hours of the administration of irinotecan (50.7%) and "late" diarrhea occurring over 24 hours after dosage administration (87.8%) have been reported. Nausea (86.2%), vomiting (66.8%), anorexia (54.9%), constipation (29.9%), flatulence (12.2%), stomatitis (11.8%) and dyspepsia (10.5%) have also been reported. Cases of ulcerative and ischemic colitis have been reported infrequently. Intestinal perforation, symptomatic pancreatitis, and asymptomatic elevated pancreatic enzymes have also been reported rarely. Cases of megacolon have been reported in post-marketing experience.
Hematologic side effects including leukopenia (63.2%), anemia (60.5%) and neutropenia (53.9%) have been reported.
Reduction in neutrophils has been the predominant clinically relevant hematologic effect. The median time to nadir for hematologic values ranges from 14 days for platelets to 21 days for hemoglobin, neutrophils and leukocytes. The median time to nadir for platelets has been reported to have decreased as the starting dose increased.
General side effects including asthenia (75.7%), abdominal cramping/pain (56.9%), fever (45.4%), pain (23.7%), headache (16.8%), back pain (14.5%), chills (13.8%), minor infections (14.5%), edema (10.2%) and abdominal enlargement (10.2%) have been reported. Hiccups have been reported in post-marketing experience.
Minor infections consisted primarily of upper respiratory infections.
Metabolic side effects including loss of body weight (30.3%), dehydration (14.8%), increased alkaline phosphatase (13.2%), and increased SGOT (10.5%) have been reported. Rare cases of hyponatremia (mostly related with diarrhea and vomiting) have also been reported.
Dermatologic side effects including alopecia (60.5%), sweating (16.4%), rash (12.8%), and paresthesias have been reported. A case of skin toxicity has also been reported.
Respiratory side effects including dyspnea (22%), increased coughing (17.4%) and rhinitis (15.5%) have been reported. Interstitial pulmonary disease presenting as pulmonary infiltrates has been uncommon during irinotecan (the active ingredient contained in Camptosar) therapy. A case of interstitial pneumonia has also been reported.
Interstitial pulmonary disease can be fatal. Risk factors include pre-existing lung disease, use of pneumotoxic drugs, radiation therapy, and colony stimulating factors. Patients with risk factors should be closely monitored for respiratory symptoms before and during irinotecan therapy.
Nervous system
Neurologic side effects including insomnia (19.4%) and dizziness (14.8%) have been reported.
Cardiovascular side effects including vasodilation (11.2%) have been reported. Myocardial ischemic events have been observed following irinotecan (the active ingredient contained in Camptosar) therapy in post-marketing experience.
Hepatic side effects including elevation of hepatic transaminases (8%) have been reported. Transient increase of amylase and occasionally transient increase of lipase have been reported in post-marketing experience.
Other side effects including a case of dysarthria have been reported.
Hypersensitivity side effects including severe anaphylactic or anaphylactoid reactions have been reported.
Renal side effects have been reported. Infrequent cases of renal insufficiency including acute renal failure, hypotension, or circulatory failure have been observed in patients who experienced episodes of dehydration associated with sepsis, diarrhea, and/or vomiting.
Musculoskeletal side effects including muscular contractions and cramps have been reported.
More about Camptosar (irinotecan)
Consumer resources
Professional resources
Compare with other treatments for:
Disclaimer: Every effort has been made to ensure that the information provided is accurate, up-to-date and complete, but no guarantee is made to that effect. In addition, the drug information contained herein may be time sensitive and should not be utilized as a reference resource beyond the date hereof. This material does not endorse drugs, diagnose patients, or recommend therapy. This information is a reference resource designed as supplement to, and not a substitute for, the expertise, skill , knowledge, and judgement of healthcare practitioners in patient care. The absence of a warning for a given drug or combination thereof in no way should be construed to indicate safety, effectiveness, or appropriateness for any given patient. Drugs.com does not assume any responsibility for any aspect of healthcare administered with the aid of materials provided. The information contained herein is not intended to cover all possible uses, directions, precautions, warnings, drug interactions, allergic reactions, or adverse effects. If you have questions about the substances you are taking, check with your doctor, nurse, or pharmacist.


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