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Our apartment with bold colours and cork floors is cozy, sunny and homely. It fits two comfortably and is on a quiet street, yet only five minutes from the Brentwood sky train station. Greetings from our resident dogs are included ;)
We are travellers ourselves and thought that we'd open our colourful space up to other travellers looking for a clean and relaxing place during their stay in Vancouver. We'll try to do everything we can to make your stay pleasant, comfortable and stress-free.
- your private bedroom with a double bed that faces a large window with natural sunlight
- a bathroom with shower, hair dryer, and toilet (the bathroom is yours, not shared with us)
- fresh and high quality linens (100% cotton) and towels (cotton or bamboo blend)
- high speed wi-fi internet
- soap/shampoo/conditioner as needed
- shared living area, outdoor patio, and kitchen
- kitchen is fully equipped with spices and oils, and fresh herbs are available from our garden herb box in the summer months
- feel free to use our dining table as a work desk
We are married, working professionals, so we work full time but is available for questions all the time. We'd be happy to share a coffee or Rooibos with our guests and provide tips on transportation or points of interest. We are pretty laid back ourselves and hope to have guests who are chilled out too and drama-free. Occasionally, we invite our friends over for board games, and you are welcome to join if you'd like.
Safira and Weiser, the resident dogs have very different personalities and have gotten along well with our guests - in fact, they are our "CEO" - Chief Entertaining Officer ;)
Our apartment is located in the Brentwood Park neighbourhood within the city of Burnaby. We are a 5 minute walk to the Brentwood skytrain station, which is part of the Millenium line that connects to downtown Vancouver, New West, Surrey. We're also next to the Brentwood Park shopping mall, which offers:
- fresh produce at Kin's Farm Market
- Cobs bread / Starbucks / Tim Horton's
- London Drugs (pharmacy)
- banks / cell phone providers
PS - the streetview from airbnb is a photo of the next block up - our place actually looks a lot nicer than the commercial building it shows!
- Check out our guidebook (top right corner orange "Globe" icon on our listing) for lots of hole in the wall restaurant recommendations.
The skytrain will allow you to go to main sights, and runs from early morning to late night. Get to the eclectic Commercial Drive neighbourhood without any transfers, and it offers a diverse range of restaurants (Italian, sushi, bubble tea...you name it). Bus service is also available.
If you are planning to use a car, you're two minutes away from Highway 1, which allows you to get to the North Shore for mountain biking within 15 minutes, or skiing within 20-30 minutes. Head the other direction, and you'll be able to get to SFU mountain for hiking and cross country/all mountain biking within 15 minutes.
If you plan to drive, there are free street parking and it can sometimes take a few rounds around the block until one frees up (a little patience may be required). The businesses near by parks in our resident area but they leave in late afternoon. We had some guests staying 3-10 days with us and they found parking fine.
We try our best to greet our guests upon arrival and introduce them to our furry doggies. Once you have confirmed your reservation, we will communicate with you to sync up with your travel plans and our work schedules (so we're there to receive your arrival.)
The room is cleaned prior to your arrival and after you depart. We use ECOS laundry detergent. There's no cleaning fee :)
PIck up from the airport may be arranged if we are available for $ 25 / one person or $35 / two people.
The following amenities are also available:
- umbrellas available here if required, though we hope you won't need one!
- selection of caffeinated / herbal tea, as well as espresso
- hair dryer if needed
Just as advertised! A cozy room with private bathroom (shower), just a short walk from Brentwood skytrain & Mall. Very comfy bed and fully outfitted. Charming, freshly updated suite with all amenities. Excellent safety features.
Very quiet area - no traffic noise at all!
Sophia and Tina are gracious hosts - we felt immediately welcomed and comfortable.
Two sweet little doggies were ready to play or cuddle.
Highly recommended.
Sophia and Tina are very beautiful humans. They're kind, accommodating and very relaxed in nature. The bedroom and bathroom were very comfortable and clean. The place comes with 2 gorgeous dogs too. We really enjoyed our stay there, close to the sky train and Brentwood shopping mall. There's a lot of bus lines near the shopping centre too. Overall 11/10. Highly recommended.
Being at Tina and Sophia's place was the best choice ever. They were very kind and helpful to me who was just arriving in Vancouver for one year. The dogs were so cute, I miss them !!!! And the room was beautiful, very clean and I had very nice sleeps in the bed. Thanks again for your kindness.
I spent a week at Sophia + Tina's apartment and their place was very homelike and comfortable. I could use my own bathroom and shared kitchen. Wifi was very nice. I miss their lovely dogs also.
Sophia and Tina were excellent hosts! If you are interested in an affordable and nice place that has great Skytrain access to the city, this is it! The bedroom is cosy and has a great attached bathroom. Highly recommended for couples and single travellers!
Sophia & Tina really made us feel welcome in Vancouver. The room was great and their dogs are sweet!
Everything as advertised, very clean and cosy room and even private bathroom. I was greeted with a welcome information package incl wifi and tips for eating out in the neighbourhood. Received my own code for the lock of the front door which was very convenient. Area is safe and quiet, with skytrain and bus two blocks away. Tina and Sophia were helpful and very hospitable hosts, providing sore throat remedies and great advice, and even invited me to a spontaneous home cooked dinner and after-work glas of wine, The dogs are adorable and very friendly! Thanks you Tina and Sophia, it's been great staying with you.
Tina and Sophia were very good hosts. They answered all our questions and provided us a lot of information about local area, the whole city and about general life in Canada.Their two little dogs were so cute and funny. The apartment was very clean, cozy and comfortable. Very quiet local area close to Skytrain and Brentwood Town Centre. We had a very good time staying at their place!
Sophia and Tina were perfect hosts. The apartment was very clean and they were very helpful. I would recommend Sohpia and Tina's place for anyone who wants a nice quiet place to stay in the Vancouver area. And it is only a short walk to the Skytrain!
Sophia and Tina are lovely hosts. We stayed at their place for a week, and they did their upmost to accommodate for us. They gave us heaps of local advice, we were able to cook and store food in their kitchen and they even helped out with a mystery birthday present! We also had a surrogate pooch for an evening walk that we went on, which was fun. Thanks guys!


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My dd is asking for your help? *****updated******
Posted by Anonymous
+ Show Post
Replies (31-40):
on Apr. 30, 2012 at 11:35 PM
Our turtles name is sushi so i vote for that!
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Sarah Berri ♥
on Apr. 30, 2012 at 11:39 PM
That's awesome! My kid named our hamster (r.i.p.) Coco. She had chipmunk markings. She was cute.
Quoting Anonymous:
She is so creative! She comes up with awesome names! Like our dog she named him "jersey". Lol
Quoting SDarvasi:I just really like the name "Lenny".....=)
Platinum Member
on Apr. 30, 2012 at 11:39 PM
Tuck! Sushi is just mean! Lol.
Posted on CafeMom Mobile
Bronze Member
on Apr. 30, 2012 at 11:54 PM
this is serious..... i say tuck! he can be a wonderpet!!
Add your quick reply below:
You must be a member to reply to this post.


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best way connect two computers for sending openGL and commands
Nov 12, 2012 at 9:56pm
best way connect two computers for sending openGL and commandsHi! Im need to connect two macbook with an ethernet cable and wounder which is the best method. I want to: :: Computer 1 :: :: Computer 2 :: :: Computer 2 will send to computer 1 :: :: Computer 1 will send to computer 2 :: Which is the best method? Ive been looking and reading in the tutorials about UDPsend and receive. but if I want to make sure everything arrives I should choose TCP I also had a look on: which one shall I choose? thanks |
Nov 12, 2012 at 10:25pm
TCP includes flow control and error correction, but each packet is heavier, that doesn't mean it is every time a problem! the fact you use jit.net or udpsend is, imho, depending on what you want to send. I'd send command through udpsend, and matrix through jit.net |
Nov 12, 2012 at 10:37pm
thanks Julien for quick reply! but in my case I both want to send messages and the content in a jit.pwindow to see whats going on. shall I use both? guess not … udpsend doesnt send matrix? I want to send the content in my jit.pwindow in computer 1 to computer two to see whats going on |
Nov 12, 2012 at 10:49pm
you can process you matrix and, for instance, dedicate one column to all your "currently sent" command. |
Nov 12, 2012 at 11:03pm
sorry not exactly. this kind of communication is new to me. you mean I unpack the matrix and sending it with udp and then packing it again after receiving it. so I shall not use jit.net if I want to send both messages, bangs and videostream? Im currently looking at jit.net and are succeding to sending the matrix to jit.recv but I cant figure out how I can send both messages and video. I also want to comunicate in two direction at the same time: Computer 1 -> computer 2: computer 2 -> computer 1: |
Nov 12, 2012 at 11:11pm
As mentioned above, use jit.net for the video matrices and udpsend for your controls. Mixing them is making it unnecessarily complicated. Btw, do you really need to send the video back to the control computer? No way to monitor it with an extra display on the video computer? It takes resources to pump these matrices around. Depending on resolution and rendering method you might wanna send a downscaled video to your control computer. |
Nov 12, 2012 at 11:18pm
the reason for why I need to send it back is that its for a theatre project and Im fading the matrix away for a part of the show so I cant see whats going on stage. I need to preview my stuff before I start it again for the audience. thats way. yes maybe I shall scale it down. Im doing this by putting it into another matrix right. as for example a float32 matrix with less dimensions. correct? "use jit.net for the video matrices and udpsend for your controls. Mixing them is making it unnecessarily complicated. " so I need to use both jit.net.send (for sending the matrix from computer 1 to 2) and UDPsend for sending the controlls from computer 2 to 1? |
Nov 13, 2012 at 10:49am
Yes and yes. About rendering performance, if you have your graphics pipeline set up efficiently everything is rendered on the GPU with openGL acceleration. Now when you send the video out using jit.net you have to copy your matrices from GPU to CPU, for example by sending from jit.gl.texture to a jit.matrix (or directly to jit.net.send, not sure if it will take it). This can cause a serious rendering performance decrease, ie. frame rate drop. My advice would be to first work out the rendering pipeline without networked monitoring, then add that part and optimize to minimize any negative effects. Somewhere above you talk about jit.pwindow. Rendering to jit.pwindow instead of jit.window causes the same effects. Matrices are copied first to CPU instead of being rendered directly by the GPU. For optimal openGL performance, render to jit.window. Sorry if all this is already known to you. I'm just pre-emptively stating it given all the Jitter optimization questions in the forum lately… |
Nov 13, 2012 at 11:00am
thanks a lot for your input! Im rendering the OpenGLgraphics to GPU so I do like this: - scale down the preview stuff by sending through a matrix with less dimensions before sending it with jit.net.send (the preview is only on when the main window rendered through jit.window is turned off) done! I guess. (havnt tried yet) |
Nov 13, 2012 at 11:25am
Sounds good. Maybe scaling down is not necessary though, depends on resolution and frame rate, you'll have to test. Most efficient will be to scale down on the GPU as well, if necessary. One thing, what bangs are you sending? Not the rendering qmetro bangs I presume? |
Nov 13, 2012 at 11:29am
no not the bangs from qmetro. just bangs to trigger different events through button Thanks a lot for your help!!! |
Nov 13, 2012 at 11:57am
Hi, for sending bangs that trigger events, I'd rather go with Cheers, |
Nov 13, 2012 at 12:01pm
Sounds right indeed. |
Nov 13, 2012 at 12:16pm
okej. thanks. I go for [net.tcp.send] and [net.tcp.recv] instead of [udpsend] and [udprecv] can [net.tcp.send] and [net.tcp.recv] send for example both a matrix and messages and bangs at the same time to different outlets? just curious |
Nov 13, 2012 at 11:16pm
dunno but the help patch and reference page will tell you all about it… |
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More trouble for former child actor Brad Renfro. The 24-year-old star of "The Client" and "Ghost World" was found in violation of his probation after failing to enroll in a drug treatment program. Renfro was ordered into a program after being convicted of attempted heroin possession.
The once-cute kid star was caught trying to purchase the drug back in 2005, and was ordered by a judge to enroll in an 18-month to 3-year rehab program. If he fails to do so, he could face jail time, according to People.
He's best known for being the main kid in that movie "The Client" with Susan Sarandon. He was also in some other stuff. Cute kid back in the day, but then he got wrapped up in drugs like the rest of 'em...
Brad Renfro is HOT. I love him in the movie "Tart" (with a young Mischa Barton, Bijou Phillips and Dominique Swaine)
I really feel bad about this guy. He is such a talented actor and he got off to such a great start. I first saw him as the young kid in The Client with Susan Sarandon and Tommy Lee Jones. He was 13 when he won that part and never acted before in his life. He did an excellent job in Sleepers, the movie with Brad Pitt, Robert DeNiro, Kevin Bacon, Dustn Hoffman and Jason Patric. He play one of four street kids from Hell's Ktichen who were sent to a reformatory where they were molested and abused. Again great job. He also starred in a movie opposite Sir Ian McClellan. I hope he can straighten out his life. He's too young to be over so soon!
"Attempted possession"?? WTF?? How long before "thinking about possibly possessing drugs" becomes illegal?
BRAD RENFRO (24), Star of "The Client" and "Ghost World" was found in violation of his probation after failing to enroll in a drug treatment program. Renfro was Renfro was ordered into a program after being convicted of attempted heroin possession. But, the question must be asked if Brad Renfro, and all the Celebs. aren't suffering from sever mental/personality disorder?
John Rogers (AP), has come up with the perfect defense for all the Celebs. The Not guilty by reason of mental/personality disorder, of those in the upper social tier. That they suffer from a self-important, self-absorbed, self-centered, egotistic, narcissism, not caring about the impact of their behavior on others, is due to their age and the development of the prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain that controls judgment, which doesn't fully develop until people are in their (20s), and when Alcohol or drugs (prescribed or illegal) are added creating a dangerous mixture, tending to impact that area of the brain ... which has to do with judgment and decision making, individuals become unaware, or they just deny, that they are impaired.
Very Respectfully,
D. L. Graham
El Cajon, San Diego, CT. CA.
loks like he will be friends and cellmate with Tom Sizmore at the Paris Hilton Inn @ Los Angeles
Brad was also in 'Bully' and 'Apt Pupil'
Didn't he get arrested for joy riding a boat or something? He was living with his
Grandmother when the cops got him.
#3, I hate to complain, but " I thought it was about celebs" is a statement, not a question. It drives me nuts (albeit a short drive!) when people end statements with question marks.
This is sad. Brad Renfro is an extremely talented actor and I hope that he straightens his problems out soon. It would be a great loss if he didn't.
Best of luck to him.
poor kid. Hes got so much talent. Its a shame its all gone downhill for him.
Child actors are notorious for becoming drug addicts or alcholics. Theres just too much pressure put on them to perform. I hope he gets the help he needs and can recover from this. Maybe he'll go on to win many awards for his acting. Sean Penn was a bad boy too and look at him now. It can be turned around.
have a great weekend!


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Originally posted 01/16/2012 03:45PM
Golden Globe winner Peter Dinklage had a long-awaited reunion with his pal Michelle Williams on the red carpet Sunday – but he didn't let her off the hook so easily.
"I sort of gave her a little grief," the proud new papa, 42, told reporters on Sunday at the HBO afterparty in Beverly Hills.
"Everybody is very busy, but it takes [this awards show] to get together."
Originally posted 01/15/2012 11:20PM
Despite an off-color remark or two from host Ricky Gervais, Sunday's 69th annual Golden Globe Awards proved to be something unexpected – family friendly.
Named best actress for the TV drama Homeland, Claire Danes said that when she won her first Globe, for 1994's My So-Called Life, she was only 15 – and was so overwhelmed that she forgot to thank her parents.
She made up for that oversight on Sunday, and pointed out her mother, Carla, sitting in the International Ballroom of the Beverly Hilton Hotel. Danes also thanked her husband, Hugh Dancy, "who keeps me sane and happy."
Throughout the evening, many winners took time to remember members of their families. The Artist's best comedy actor, Jean Dujardin, thanked "my beautiful and talented wife." (The movie was also named best picture comedy or musical.)
Originally posted 01/15/2012 10:15PM
It took a lot of time – and a few extra pounds – for Michelle Williams to make her on-screen transformation into Marilyn Monroe.
But Williams, 31, says she wasn't the only one immersed in the world of the iconic actress during the production of My Week with Marilyn – especially around nighttime.
While accepting best-performance honors for her role in the movie at Sunday night's Golden Globe Awards (live from the Beverly Hilton Hotel), Williams singled out her daughter from her relationship with Heath Ledger, 6-year-old Matilda Rose, whom she praised for "suffering through six months of bedtime stories, where all the princesses were read aloud in a Marilyn Monroe-[sounding] voice."
Originally posted 01/13/2012 06:00AM
With the Golden Globes just days away, Michelle Williams, Bradley Cooper and many other stars mingled at a Weinstein Company and Audi-hosted bash at West Hollywood's Chateau Marmont. The My Week with Marilyn star spent most of her night with pal Busy Philipps, and worked the party with a smile, staying until just before midnight. A casual Cooper (in a black leather jacket) showed up later and got chummy with Williams and the party's host, Harvey Weinstein. They captured the moment by snapping a photo together.
Also at the soiree: Lindsay Lohan, who was spotted greeting Jeremy Piven; Jane Lynch; and the cast of The Artist.
– Jennifer Garcia
Originally posted 01/06/2012 03:00PM
When Michelle Williams took a holiday vacation to Mexico, she may have gotten a little more than she bargained for.
"I'm still a little sore," she told Jay Leno on Thursday's episode of The Tonight Show when asked about her trip.
The My Week with Marilyn star was vacationing with a group of friends when they decided to try horseback riding.
Originally posted 12/14/2011 09:15AM
George Clooney , Leonardo DiCaprio, Brad Pitt and Michelle Williams were among the nominees announced Wednesday for the 2012 Screen Actors Guild Awards, traditionally an accurate prognosticator for the Academy Awards.
Clooney, DiCaprio and Pitt, three of Hollywood's biggest stars, will square off against two relative unknowns, Demian Bichir and Jean Dujardin, in the category of best actor.
Williams is joined by Glenn Close, Viola Davis, Meryl Streep and Tilda Swinton in the race for best actress.
The five movies nominated for best cast ensemble are The Artist, Bridesmaids, The Descendants, The Help and Woody Allen's Midnight in Paris.
Originally posted 11/21/2011 08:10AM
A year of studying abroad is probably a bit less daunting when your destination happens to be your home country.
That's the situation for Emma Watson, the British actress who's taking time away from Brown University to study at Oxford – in the same part of England where she grew up.
"It's really nice ... just to have that steady routine and back being home, being around people I love and doing what I love," Watson, 21, said Sunday at the London premiere of My Week with Marilyn.
Although she's got her nose in the books, Watson does have some movies in the works, she revealed.
Originally posted 11/14/2011 02:20PM
She added a few pounds, had the blonde wig, and spent hours in makeup each day to play Marilyn Monroe in the upcoming film My Week with Marilyn. But Michelle Williams had to learn to move like the Hollywood legend, too.
"I wasn't watching what I ate, let's put it that way," Williams, 31, told PEOPLE Sunday, at the film's New York premiere, about her physical transformation, which also included some helpful wardrobe tricks that helped her jiggle a bit more.
"The costume designer and Michelle came up with some great stuff," said director Simon Curtis. "But an awful lot is Williams's understanding of the way Marilyn walked, and the way Williams herself took on the wiggle."
Originally posted 11/04/2011 08:25AM
Originally posted 11/01/2011 06:00PM
What happened when Queen Elizabeth met Marilyn Monroe?
Even the Queen herself is interested in seeing that moment played out on the big screen: She plans to host a showing at the palace of the upcoming film My Week With Marilyn, starring Michelle Williams, a source tells PEOPLE.
In the film, Williams channels the sultry star, portraying Monroe as she was during a brief period in the summer of 1956, when the actress was in the U.K. filming The Prince and the Showgirl. It was during that time that Monroe met the Queen.
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text:
Charleston without breaking the bank.
Long time lurker here. This is the first trip to Charleston for my wife and I. We are planning on going the week of thanksgiving mon-thurs, but will be leaving to come home on Thanksgiving day. We love all kinds of food and are adventurous eaters. We would like to experience whatever is local (low country) and eat some damn good food. I don't want to spend $200+ on every dinner, however. We will be there for 3 nights and 4 days. We love sitting at the bar and chatting with our servers, and find the experience to sometimes be better than the dining room. Basically, we are not opposed to eating tapas style and sharing an entree at the bar. We love NOLA, and are able to do it on the cheap with numerous happy hours and lunch deals at some of the cities finest restaurants. Is there anything like that in Charleston? I'm fine with one $200+ meal, but would like to experience Charleston's best without going crazy. The restaurants on our radar are Husk, FIG, and McCrady's. I have heard Pearlz, High Cotton, and Social have good Happy Hours, but we are interested in both great food and drink. Any thoughts? Thank you so much!
I know you've come and gone and hit some of the great, great restaurants in Charleston. There are more good ones per square foot than in cities much larger than Charleston.
But sometimes, don't we all want something cozy and delicious that doesn't require resevations and a big commitment of time and money? I sometimes just want to get back to our hotel or B&B by 9:00 after a day of sightseeing or work, which we combine on our Charleston visits.
My husband and I hit the Osteria la Bottiglia, which we've gone to a bunch of times during or annual month-long visits to Charleston. It's on King Street, just one block away from the Hampton Inn where you stayed.
The Osteria is a wine bar and Italian restaurant that will not break the bank--not even close. It's a cozy drop in kind of place with wonderful wines and a creative Italian menu--just like Italian osterias where you stop in for a lighter meal rather than a multi-course blowout. This place is like that. (Not that you couldn't do a blowout here as well, but that's not why we go there.)
We've eaten at all the wonderful places you ate in--FIG, Husk, McReadys, Bowen's Island. But our default is something cozier, smaller scale, and affordable where we can feel like locals. Tonight was one of those nights. So we tucked into the Osteria la Bottiglia. My husband had the duck confit, with out of sight raviolis that were so creamy and light. (Yeah, I poached one when he wasn't looking!) I had the North Carolia goat cheese salad since I'd had a huge lunch out with friends. But you couldn't go wrong with the lamb and polenta. Oh, and a couple glasses of their excellent Italian wines really paired well with our dishes. Tonight we did Chianti.
The owner as well as the bartender are friendly but not instrusive. Really, on a cold night, the Osteria satisfied our appetites as well as our desire for a local meal that didn't break the bank. Every bite and sip of wine felt just right. We'll probably drop in a couple more times before we leave Charleston in two weeks.
Just wanted to give a quick thanks to all of the recs you guys gave me. We had a great time in Charleston and plan on returning. We did not have a bad dish or experience. Here's a quick rundown of what we were able to do.
Fig - we went for dinner here once, and ended up back at the bar for some apps late night after mccrady's. The food and service were top notch, but the vibe/decor left a bit to be desired. I feel like this restaurant could be in any major city in the USA. While the menu focused on local products, the preparations weren't very "southern." Highlights include the gnuddi with lamb ragu and flounder crudo.
McCrady's - We sat at the bar for dinner, ordered some snacks, and split the 4 course. The vibe there is incredible. It has to be one of the most beautiful restaurants I've ever had the pleasure of dining in. The food was a bit more nuanced and forward thinking. It is definitely a departure from Husk. Once, again though, while they like to use local ingredients, I found the food did not echo much of the south, or at least as much as Husk. The aged duck roasted on the bone was brilliant.
Husk - We had both dinner and lunch here and it was probably our favorite restaurant. I am still thinking about the carolina gold rice "risotto." Lunch is a great way to experience the restaurant without spending a bunch.
SNOB - What a great lunch option. We sat at the table peering into the kitchen. It will definitely be a must do every trip.
Bowens Island Restaurant - Probably the most memorable experience we had. We only had oysters, but the sunset and vibe is one for the history books.
Pearlz - Great happy hour with fresh seafood. We got there at 4 and the bar was full within 15 minutes, by mostly locals. Thanks for the tip on this one.
Gin Joint - A little too hipster for me, but great hand crafted cocktails nonetheless.
High Cotton - We stopped in for a Happy hour cocktail prior to our dinner at Fig. While every other person we met in Charleston was unbelievably friendly, our server here was far from it.
Toast - We needed somewhere to eat for thanksgiving lunch, and nothing was open besides Toast, and some restaurants with crazy expensive pre fix menus. It did the trick.
Glass Onion - Wasn't overly impressed with this place. We went during lunch and the ordering setup was a bit off putting. I have no clue why they just wouldn't have table service. The shrimp po boy was good however. I found the menu owed more to NOLA than the low country.
Go to Hanks for Seafood if you want something special (almost Relais caliber but not as expensive). Pearlz is good for simpler fare. High Cotton I thought was over-rated. It is a chain you know. The Peninsula Grill is a Relais caliber restaurant of which there are only a few in SC. Check out their menu beforehand. That may be the place to go to get your $200 meal. Go to McCrady's for the history. I believe George Washington used to eat there.. 39 Rue de Jean may be worth checking out. I haven't eaten there but wished I had before leaving Charleston. Don't bother with Hymans. It used to be good but no longer is anything consistently outstanding. The okra-shrimp beignets at the Hominy Grill are outstanding and they've been written up in many national publications. They are less expensive and much more informal too.
re: Emilybh
I've been to High Cotton numerous times and never been disappointed. It's owned by the Maverick Group but I wouldn't call it a chain because there are 2.
I haven't been to Peninsula Grill since Robert Carter left so I can't speak to how good it is now. I've heard mixed opinions.
There was a banquest in the building of the Long Room in the McCrady's building for George Washington.
39 Rue de Jean is ok, but it's loud and is a popular local bar scene. I like the mussels there.
Did anybody mention Hyman's? I always recommend people keep walking if a restaurant has kids outside hawking.
re: Sue in Mt P
I've eaten at Hyman's and liked it the first time I went ....and later thought it paled in comparison to Hanks when I went back to Hyman's the second time (hoping it would be like the first) after trying Hanks.
Glad I didn't bother with 39 Rue de jean then...
I just was studying the menu at McCrady's and wasn't all that wowed by it. It seems you have to be a big meat eater in a lot of these places. The description of the dishes at McCrady's seems to be pretty plain (no special sauces or seasoning mentioned). I think that is why I never bothered trying it when I lived in Charleston. I still have to say I wasn't wowed by High Cotton and I know they are owned by the same people that also own Magnolias and for that reason I won't bother with any of their restaurants. It wasn't that High Cotton was bad. It just wasn't worth the price. I'd rather go to Pearlz than High Cotton for the same quality of food at a better price..
Hanks on the other hand really was special every time I went. Everything I tried was special. -
re: Emilybh
have you been to high cotton lately? Because the chef that has been there since the Spring used to work for Eric Ripert. I used to think it was Blah but the new chef , Joe Palma, is AMAZING.
As for McCrady's you are so far off base I am not really sure how to reply. Plain is not a word I would ever use for McCrady's.-
re: LaLa
I never said I'd eaten there. I said the menu didn't make the food sound very interesting. Sorry. It is just my observation. I've read lots of menus and been to lots of excellent gourmet restaurants here and abroad and experienced many different cuisines.
I know what is considered plain food by someone like myself might be considered excellent by someone who grew up in the South. My palate is oriented towards more complicated flavors than a palate used to Southern BBQ, Shrimp and Grits and Fried Oysters.
re: danna
This string of comments is beginning ti sound like the partisan sniping of the recent election campaign! Geez, people.....there are serious "foodies" everywhere. And there are culinary philistines everywhere as well. I mostly gave up "Southern" food decades ago in favor of food I thought was more interesting, such as North Italian, Szechuan Chinese, Greek, etc. All these things and more can be found and enjoyed in the
Charleston area, and opinions will abound as to which ones are the best, and the "best" is always a moving target, so I think it's great that we can share these opinions in such a convenient forum as this.
My wife and I just returned from a trip to Georgetown & Charleston for a few days. We had the usual foodie suspects in our sights, such as Fig, McCrady's, Husk, and Peninsula Grill etc. We found Peninsula Grill rather pretentious and expensive and decided to forego their vaunted coconut cake dessert. We've found that the best way to nor break the bank is to go to those more pricey places for lunch rather than dinner....you reap some delightful surprises that way. We had a terrific lunch at Husk, for instance....perfectly sauteed NC catfish over a bed of corn, peppers etc. and a nice white wine and the bill was quite reasonable, even with a quirky dessert of sweet potato pie and bacon ( yes, bacon ) ice cream, which we split. If you do this, then you can go to some of these places at night and have a couple of appetizers in the bar and some good wine. Peninsula Grill is not open for lunch. Magnolia's is always good. One of our best finds was Monza's Pizza. They use imported Italian flour and make their own sausage etc. and cook in a 1000 deg. wood oven. Sit at the bar, if possible. If you like Italian food, Il Cortile del Re is good....they have hard to find pastas such as wild boar sauce over pappardelle. Another interesting lunch spot is Jestine's Kitchen......Southern Soul Food. Lines can be famously long there at lunchtime, so you might want to go a bit late. Pearlz looked like great fun to us and was right around the corner from our inn, but the night we tried to get in with a young friend, it was full with a half-hour wait, so we hit McCrady's instead for drinks and appetizers.
re: LaLa
The Georgetown scene is much smaller, of course. We enjoyed the River Room on the wharf for dinner. There are several places along the waterfront for a good lunch and a brew, such as Buzz's Roost....the food is so-so, but the view is awesome. A good breakfast place is Thomas's Cafe on Front Street. The Humble Crumb gets high marks for Italian, pizza & organic stuff. If you are interested in staying a night there in Georgetown on the way to Charleston, I can highly recommend Mansfield Plantation....a real and very well preserved rice plantation about 5 miles out of town. A unique experience and not too pricey. It's operated now as a B & B....incredible breakfast! Google it.
re: Gene 1206
I spend a lot of time in Georgetown since my husband works there (we live in Murrells Inlet) but always enjoy hearing others picks. You missed the best place there though....LImpin Janes!
I do adore the breakfast at Thomas Cafe...they do an awesome shrimp and grits!
I have been to an event at Mansfield...lovely!
Cross the Ashley River and try the Glass Onion or Al di La in the West Ashley area. I would definitely go to FIG for the ultimate dinner. The bar at McCrady's serves small plates and has great cocktails. Bowen's Island has good oysters and a great sunset view and Fleet Landing has good seafood. Basil is the best for Thai if that is what you like. Charleston Grill has phenomenal food and Mickey will the most gracious front man you will ever meet $$$. My best suggestion is just to wander around town the first day and check out the menus, but remember that around the market can be a tourist trap. Go get a cocktail at the Gin Joint and ask the staff their favorite places. Charleston really has a lot of hidden gems just off the beaten path.
re: scbeachnuts
Thanks for the suggestions! We're definitely in the mood for oysters so Bowens island sounds great. We made a ressie for FIG and are excited to go. Hopefully we can make it out to West Ashley for lunch one of the days we're in town. Can you order off the regular menu at the bar at McCrady's? Thanks!
re: mridealism
Maybe. Call first and ask.
Glass Onion is excellent:exceptional food at a great price since they don't have the downtown overhead. If you go on a Tuesday night, make reservations. It's fried chicken night and they sell out early.
Do follw scbeachnut's advice and avoid the places that have people hawking tourists on the street. You know that if you've been lurking.
re: Sue in Mt P
Thanks very much. I called Husk and they encourage sharing everything. I figured as much, since the menu reminded me of Cochon in NOLA. I'm not sure if we have enough to time to do everything, but as of right now, we have McCrady's, Fig, and Husk for dinner. Lunch options include Fleet, SNOB, Bowens, Glass Onion, etc. Thanks again! Let me know if I'm missing something or I should omit something.
re: mridealism
Bowens Island is only open for dinner and they are not open on Sunday or Monday. To me, a trip to Bowens is a great low country experience, but it is the complete opposite of McCrady's, FIG, and Husk. I don't know that I would give up one of those for Bowens, unless you just want to get out and see the countryside. The view off the deck at sunset is glorious. If you really like oysters, you might try to fit it in, but otherwise, I would save it for another trip.
re: mridealism
Sunset oysters and then a light dinner sounds like a pretty good plan to me (of course, i'm a bit of a pig). To elaborate on McCrady's, they have a 4 course for $60 option that I've done a couple of times lately...it's been very good. As we were leaving, I glanced at the chalkboard over the bar and the bar bites sounded fabulous.
Another place you might want to look at is Butcher and Bee. they post a photo of their menu on facebook every day. They are normally just open for lunch and late night (like after 10 i think),but very often they have special openings for dinner. It's BYOB so you save a little there. We managed to order half the menu so it wasn't all that super cheap when we went, but still, $50 for dinner is a lot less than some places.
Please report back!
You can easily do that in Charleston. FIG, Husk and McCrady's all have nice bars. Husk's is in a separate building that's really interesting, but the menu is not the same as in the restaurant. McCrady's bar area is much bigger than the one at FIG. FIG will get crowded so go early.
Also look at Butcher and Bee. Interesting lunch and late night menu items, BYOB. Walk up King Street (it's way up) and check out some of the new places on Upper King for cocktails and a snack.
You should also consider Bowen's Island for oysters this time of year.
Pearlz, HC, and Social have good happy hours, Pearlz and Social have bigger bar areas. You might also look at Gin Joint.
re: miss piggy
Correct. Husk has a bar menu and that's all you'll get in there.
I'm not sure what you mean by great deal. Just getting a reservation at FIG is a great deal to me. Lunch is cheaper than dinner at the nice places (SNOB has excellent lunch for $10, only open weekedays). I also like Fast and French for lunch.
re: Sue in Mt P
"Great deal" is exactly what you mentioned with SNOB for lunch. We ended up making a ressie at FIG, but may opt to sit at the bar if there's room. I also made a ressie for Husk since I want to order off the regular menu. Do you think they'd be ok with us ordering a couple apps and splitting an entree? I know some restaurants encourage that, while others don't.
Restaurant August (John Besh) in NOLA offers a 3 course lunch for $20. It is a steal to say the least. There's a restaurant here in Orlando called Luma, that has a chef's tasting menu for $65 that not many people know about. It's usually 6-8 courses. It's that kind of thing we're looking for.


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Topic: Berggruen Institute
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Global Viewpoint Brazil's lessons for indebted Europe
Some European nations' debt will have to be forgiven to resume growth. Those responsible for the financial turmoil must pay, rather than the poor. And Europe must unify its fiscal policy.
10/11/2011 11:35 am -
Global Viewpoint China should listen to Kissinger: You're on top now, start leading
China has surpassed the US as the world's largest creditor. Beijing must now take on the accompanying leadership role. Instead of a 'Marshall Plan,' why not a 'Hu Jintao plan' that recycles some of China's surplus to benefit the whole global system?
06/28/2011 11:11 am -
Global Viewpoint The surprising factors behind Asia's renaissance
With a bright future ahead of it, Asia is increasingly rediscovering its past. To fully understand Asia's rise, we must come to grips with the forces that shaped its history: Western, Islamic, and Buddhist heritage. It's time to consider Asia's lesson on religious and cultural pluralism.
04/12/2011 12:24 pm


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Twitter and NASCAR became inextricably linked when the Daytona 500 exploded in a fireball Monday night, and the sport of good ol' boys will never be the same.
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- 07.08.11
Twice a year, NASCAR drivers do the unthinkable: They turn right, as well as left on road courses. Most of the 36 races on the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series calendar this year run on oval tracks. So, the drivers' skills …


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We found the perfect hat for Matt Smith whilst out shopping today :D
Modelled by Katie :D
(Source: heisutterlyfuckingdeadjim)
omg fifty points to Huffelpuff!
sorry but i've had that hat for like a month and a half now so i claim the right of say that its perfect for matt smith.
Want. Need I say more?


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COLUMBIA — It's a Monday at the Boys & Girls Club in downtown Columbia. Two staff members can't work on Mondays, and a third called in sick. Unit Director Deronne Wilson has been running around all afternoon, shuttling kids from schools to the club in its van and coordinating his skeleton staff. He's had a blur of a day so far, the kind he says you need your track shoes for.
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Well we were all sitting back waiting for the Cutler situation to inevitably deteriorate in the direction it was going. And now its basically a done deal that Cutler is gone, and McDaniels has bean revealed to be an incompetent idiot faster than any Belicheck assistant / wannabe head coach before him (at least that's my opinion). This grreatly alters many mock drafts and throws everything into a guessing game of who gets Cutler and what 1st round pick does Denver get for him.
In other news that has further impact on the draft and where Cutler is traded, is the reports of Matthew Stafford putting on an impressive performance during the Detroit Lions private workout.
So here's the question i pose to you. Where do you think Cutler ends up and do the Broncos go for Stafford as his replacement?


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Now going back to the OP, assume im trying to understand the avoidence vaule after DR, is this a different ball o wax all together? the last few posts have kinda lost me.
so in my own case, whereas I have 3460 str, and 2397 parry raiting :
3460 - 189 = 3271
3271 *.25 = 817.75
2397 - 818(str) = 1579
y(x) = (65.631440 * 8.935)/(8.935 + 65.631440 * 0.956) = 7.693741......?
7.693741 + 5 = 12.693741........?
but for some reason thats not adding p to whats on my character sheet. ( 13.56 parry chance gained from rating and a total of 16.67 parry chance)
Last edited by truculent; 04-22-2011 at 09:29 AM.
Reev: So, do I macro /dance into Shield Slam now? Raysere: Yes, I hear it increases your DPS Gold balance gear quality attractiveness to the opposite gender considerably
Now going back to the OP, assume im trying to understand the avoidence vaule after DR, is this a different ball o wax all together? the last few posts have kinda lost me.
Reev: So, do I macro /dance into Shield Slam now? Raysere: Yes, I hear it increases your DPS Gold balance gear quality attractiveness to the opposite gender considerably
I hope you aren't copying your Parry Rating from the tooltip for Parry, cause that includes Parry Rating from Strength in it. You need to go through all your items and total up the Parry Rating you have on your gear. 2400 Parry Rating seems a bit high for someone that would prioritize Mastery very heavily. Around 1600 seems more reasonable for a lower priority secondary stat which would be what it would be without the Parry Rating from Strength.
"In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.
No, im not copying from the tooltip, But i think I goofed. I edited the last post. I stack parry pretty heavily at the moment. hense why Ive set out on this endeavor.I have a theory, one that may be usefull to teh tnakspot community. However, before I go on a rant about a very abstract idea, I'm trying to see if any portion of the theory makes sense. my current stats as listed in the tooltip are
8.40% dodge (766 rating)
50.12% block
11.78% mastery ( 2112 rating)
if i screwed somthing up in the math thats one thing. but to answer your question, yes.. i have a lot of parry.
But Im dont understand your question.... i did back out the parry from str.
Last edited by truculent; 04-22-2011 at 09:15 AM.
Reev: So, do I macro /dance into Shield Slam now? Raysere: Yes, I hear it increases your DPS Gold balance gear quality attractiveness to the opposite gender considerably
@Quinafoi: I actually read your post as saying "Dodge receives DR from Dodge Rating, and then a separate DR from Agility added to the total". I just wanted to make clear that both add to the same DR formula, thus 1 Agility always gives you Dodge% equal to ~0.41 Dodge Rating.
Back on topic:
3271 strength is 817 Parry Rating (3272 would be 818, you always round DOWN to the integer)
Also, remember that the "Parry chance gained from Rating" the tooltip indicates is the raw chance BEFORE Diminishing Returns.
Basicly, you can take that into the formula and see if it works
Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
You don't need to subtract the Parry Rating gained from Strength. I was just worried that you may have double counted the value of Strength by figuring out how much Parry Rating it was and adding it to a number which already included it.
"In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.
In your example, take the parry rating displayed in the tooltip, 2397, and divide it by 176.7189, the amount of parry rating for 1% parry:
2397/176.7189 = 13.5639 parry %.
That is before DR. Now lets use that number in the DR equation:
y(x) = c*13.5639/(13.5639 + c*k) = 11.67% parry after DR.
Now add the 5% base, and you should get 16.67% chance to parry (which reflects your character sheet).
Going back to what Quinafoi said, the 2397 is your total parry rating. It is comprised of both the parry rating on your gear and the parry rating from your strength. You calculated the parry rating from STR correctly as 818 parry rating. That means 1579 parry rating comes from gear, enchants, and gems. There is really nothing more than academics in calculating these values. They only serve to give you an idea of where your parry rating comes from. For the DR calculations, use the total parry rating, 2397, convert it to percent, and plug it into the DR equation.
Now, back to your opening post. Given that your parry rating (2397) gives 13.5639% before DR, lets see how efficient your DR is:
dy(x)/dx = c*c*k/((13.5639 + c*k)*(13.5639 + c*k)) = 0.7072
So at your current level of parry, you are at 70.72% efficiency, meaning your next 0.1% parry (before DR) will net slightly less than 0.071% extra parry after DR.
If you need to look at it in terms of parry ratings, here is a chart I tossed together in excel:
Code:Avoidance Percent Percent DR DR Avoidance Gained Rating Before DR After DR Efficiency Eff (Percent) Per 100 Rating 600 3.395222582 3.369173319 0.941386782 94.13867821 0.53729997 700 3.961093013 3.897357231 0.925482564 92.54825644 0.528183912 800 4.526963443 4.416655135 0.909978008 90.99780081 0.519297904 900 5.092833873 4.927289402 0.894859833 89.48598334 0.510634268 1000 5.658704304 5.429475048 0.880115308 88.01153077 0.502185646 1100 6.224574734 5.923420031 0.865732219 86.57322187 0.493944982 1200 6.790445165 6.409325537 0.851698849 85.16988489 0.485905507 1300 7.356315595 6.88738626 0.838003952 83.80039516 0.478060723 1400 7.922186025 7.357790655 0.824636729 82.4636729 0.470404395 1500 8.488056456 7.82072119 0.81158681 81.15868101 0.462930535 1600 9.053926886 8.276354579 0.798844231 79.88442313 0.455633389 1700 9.619797317 8.724862011 0.786399417 78.63994168 0.448507432 1800 10.18566775 9.166409359 0.774243161 77.4243161 0.441547348 1900 10.75153818 9.601157389 0.762366611 76.23666112 0.43474803 2000 11.31740861 10.02926195 0.750761252 75.07612517 0.428104565 2100 11.88327904 10.45087418 0.739418888 73.94188884 0.421612225 2200 12.44914947 10.86614064 0.728331634 72.83316343 0.415266462 2300 13.0150199 11.27520354 0.717491896 71.74918959 0.409062895 2400 13.58089033 11.67820084 0.70689236 70.68923603 0.402997307 2500 14.14676076 12.07526648 0.696525982 69.65259824 0.397065638 2600 14.71263119 12.46653046 0.686385974 68.63859737 0.391263974 2700 15.27850162 12.852119 0.676465791 67.6465791 0.385588542 2800 15.84437205 13.2321547 0.666759126 66.67591256 0.380035708 2900 16.41024248 13.60675667 0.657259894 65.72598938 0.374601965 3000 16.97611291 13.9760406 0.647962227 64.79622268 0.369283932
this information listed above is current?
Reev: So, do I macro /dance into Shield Slam now? Raysere: Yes, I hear it increases your DPS Gold balance gear quality attractiveness to the opposite gender considerably
It is as current as it can be. Whatever that means
Protection Warrior SpreadsheetOriginally Posted by Ion
Jere would it be possible to make a column hold the line uptime increase per 100 rating? Would be nice to compare uptime increase versus loss through DR.
Last edited by truculent; 04-23-2011 at 07:18 AM.
Reev: So, do I macro /dance into Shield Slam now? Raysere: Yes, I hear it increases your DPS Gold balance gear quality attractiveness to the opposite gender considerably
I'll be honest, I only play my warrior as an alt nowadays. I don't know much about HtL mechanics. I would (off the cuff) think that it would require simulation to get an accurate uptime, which I am not experienced at. There are a lot of things I don't know about it. Such as:
1. Do HtL procs refresh or does one lock out the proc of another?
2. Does it have an ICD?
For example, if it refreshes, then looking for 6 procs a minute isn't going to give you 100%uptime, because some of those will overlap.
However, if the current proc locs the next one out, then it is easier to calculate. An ICD can also make it a bit easier to calculate.
From some cursory reading, it looks like it probably: new procs refresh/overwrite current ones, and does not have an ICD.
Also, wouldn't uptime also be a function of boss attack speed, since it triggers off of parries?
WarTotem may have looked into all of this for his spreadsheet, so you might peg him for some ideas on how to calculate it.
I am 48 and am a bit rusty on my math, can someone explain in plain english without all the math involved how bad the diminishing returns are?
Aye this is correct. Would need to make an assumption of the attack speed and work of that some increase in the uptime. For gimmick fights like chimearon or fights with adds numbers would differ quite a bit, but most encounters the boss swings around every 2 secs?
Just look at the DR efficiency column from Jere. Before diminishing returns 176,7rating=1% dodge/parry. In that column you can see that the next 100 rating gets less efficient the more you have 88% efficiency at 1000 rating, 75% efficiency at 2000 rating etc.
In simple terms. The effect of diminishing returns is "not bad". We can't avoid its effects, and so the goal is simply to balance the dodge and parry DRs as well as you can. Every 500 rating the value of that rating tends to drop by ~10%.
As a general rule, parry can be a few percentage points higher because it increases hold the line uptime. Mastery rating tends to trump both as it has no diminishing returns.
"I'll smash you and melt away Coolmint Island!"
I've finally sat down and tried to work this out for myself (I need to do things to learn them) - my question is a bit down the way)
So, for example, if you have 2000 parry rating from all sources, you have:
So pre-DR 2000 parry rating = 11.32% Parry
post-DR 2000 parry rating = 10.03% Parry
I think that math is correct. However the graphs don't help me much (which is weird because I'm usually a very visual person). So I'm trying to find a way to quantify it that makes sense to me. Are the following statements valid statements, without the need of qualifiers?
Because of diminishing returns, at the specific point of 2000 parry rating:
A) The real world impact is parry is 1.288147% lower than if DR did not exist;
B) Parry is only 88.618% as effective as in a world where DR does not exist; and
C) The effective rating per 1% of parry is 199.4165
I don't want to confuse people if this needs a lot of caveats, but this, for me, if I were to work out a full table (as opposed to a graph) makes more sense to me since it deals with the in-game actual effect more than a graph does to me.
Am I off base on this?
An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer
All of the above is true but its not very useful information. Its much more useful to know how effective the last 100 rating was or how effective the next 100 rating will be instead of calculating the average effectiveness of the whole 2000 rating.
If you look at the table Jere made you will see 75% effectiveness at 2000 rating.
Hope this helps
See, I don't understand how it's 75% as effective. That doesn't mean anything to me. The 199.4165 per 1% means a lot more to me now. It means I'm going to need more than 200 parry rating to grab another 1% parry because I know DR will continue to become larger.
I can compare the current amount per 1% against dodge and get an measurement in my head as to how good they are.
I can use that number to look at reforging.
I dunno, to me C especially means the most to me. Its what the real world impact is.
And I'm still confused as to the 75% effectiveness, that's looking at the next point, right? It just doesn't mean a whole lot to me. :-/
An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer
What the 75% means is that the next bit of parry you get will give you 75% of the parry percentage you calculate by dividing rating/conversion factor. So the next 0.10% parry you get from parry rating will really only net you 0.075% parry rating due to DR (actually a bit less because it is a continuous function and each step nets a lower value...talking infinitely small steps).
So if you were sitting at 2000 parry rating and you got a piece of gear that has 100 more parry rating. Normally, without DR, 100 parry rating would be an additional 0.5659% parry, but because we are at 75% efficiency, it will be less than 0.5659*0.75 = 0.4244% parry. The actual amount you get will be slightly less because the 75% is taken at the instantaneous point of 2000 parry rating specifically and every infinitesimal step in parry rating nets a lower and lower efficiency. As a matter of fact, if you look at the 2100 point on the chart, that last 100 rating only gave 0.4216%, but the 0.4244% was pretty close.
So the 75% isn't good for hard calculations unless you are moving in really small steps (probably 0.001 percentage points if I had to guess), but it gives you an idea of what kind of impact DR will have on the next bit of parry rating you add. Will it be half as effective, or 75% as effective, roughly? That's what the number seeks to give some insight on.
EDIT: Mind you, I use the term efficiency, but that may not be a 100% good word to use for this. What that 75% is in mathematical terms is simply the instantaneous slope of the DR equation line (or the derivative for those who are familiar with calculus).
Last edited by jere; 05-02-2011 at 04:28 PM.
Reading it, I think I see why I'm having a hard time. The work is centered on the fractional and I find it easier to look at the whole. How much rating is needed for 1% Well currently it's X, so to get from Y% parry to Z% parry I'll need more than X.
The exact numbers don't matter, since I know how to figure them out know, but looking at the 'cleaner' side, works for me. But I can see how it can open up to a lot of confusion. Since, for example, at 2000 parry ratting, it's basically 200 rating per % of parry after DR, but it will require more than 200 rating to get to the next % of parry because of the increasing DR on the next points.
Probably just going to help me since I never see things the same way as others. Thanks!
An introduction into WarTanking (no longer updated as I've retired from WoW - the concepts will still be mostly accurate but the numbers no longer will be.) - http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...101-The-Primer


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Automatically Constructing a Directory of Molecular Biology Databases Luciano Barbosa, Sumit Tandon, and Juliana Freire School of Computing, University of Utah Abstract. There has been an explosion in the volume of biology-related information that is available in online databases. But finding the right information can be challenging. Not only is this information spread over multiple sources, but often, it is hidden behind form interfaces of on- line databases. There are several ongoing efforts that aim to simplify the process of finding, integrating and exploring these data. However, exist- ing approaches are not scalable, and require substantial manual input. Notable examples include the NCBI databases and the NAR database compilation. As an important step towards a scalable solution to this problem, we describe a new infrastructure that automates, to a large extent, the process of locating and organizing online databases. We show how this infrastructure can be used to automate the construction and maintenance of a Molecular Biology database collection. We also pro- vide an evaluation which shows that the infrastructure is scalable and effective—it is able to efficiently locate and accurately identify the rele- vant online databases. 1 Introduction Due to the explosion in the number of online databases, there has been increased interest in leveraging the high-quality information present in these databases [1, 2, 7, 10, 19]. However, finding the right databases can be challenging. For exam- ple, if a biologist needs to locate databases related to molecular biology and searches on Google for the keywords "molecular biology database" over 27 mil- lion documents are returned. Among these, she will find pages that contain databases, but the results also include a very large number of pages from jour- nals, scientific articles, etc. Recognizing the need for better mechanisms to locate online databases, there have been a number of efforts to create online database collections such as the NAR database compilation [9], a manually created collection which lists databases of value to biologists. Given the dynamic nature of the Web, where new sources are constantly added, manual approaches to create and maintain database collections are not practical. But automating this process is non-trivial. Since online databases are sparsely distributed on the Web, an efficient strategy is needed to locate the forms that serve as entry points to these databases. In addition, online databases do not publish their schemas and since their contents Searchable Searchable Forms Domain-Specific Relevant Page Page Forms Forms Form Crawler Form Form Classifier Database Classifier Classifier Most relevant Form Filtering Links link (Link, Form path Relevance) Adaptive Frontier Link Feature Link Manager Classifier Selection Learner Fig. 1. Architecture of ACHE . are often hidden behind form interfaces, they are hard to retrieve. Thus, a scal- able solution must determine the relevance of a form to a given database domain just by examining information that is available in and around forms. In previous work [2–4], we proposed ACHE (Adaptive Crawler for Hidden- Web Entry Points), a new scalable framework that addresses these problems. We showed, experimentally, that ACHE is effective for a representative set of com- mercial databases. In this paper, we describe a case study we carried out to inves- tigate the effectiveness of this framework for different domains, and in particular, for non-commercial online databases. We chose to focus on databases related to molecular biology for two key reasons: these are often academic databases; and there is already a sizeable collection of these databases [9] which can serve as a basis for comparison. The remainder of the paper is organized as follows. In Section 2, we give a brief overview of the ACHE framework. In Section 3, we describe in detail the process we followed to customize ACHE to the molecular biology domain. We discuss the issues we faced in the process, and show that, because the different components of ACHE use learning-based techniques, they can be easily adapted to a different domain. We present our experimental evaluation in Section 4. The results indicate that ACHE is effective: it is able to efficiently locate and accurately identify online databases related to molecular biology. We conclude in Section 6, where we outline directions for future work. 2 Searching and Identifying Online Databases ACHE provides an end-to-end solution to the problem of locating and organizing online databases. The high-level architecture of the system is shown in Figure 1. ACHE uses a focused crawler to locate online databases. Similar to topic-specific crawlers, ACHE also uses Web page contents to focus its search on a given topic. But to deal with the sparseness of online databases on the Web, it prioritizes links that are more likely to lead to forms in the database domain sought. ACHE also uses a form-filtering process to select the relevant forms among the set of forms retrieved by the crawler. This form-filtering process is required because even a focused crawler invariably retrieves a diverse set of forms, including searchable forms (i.e., forms used to search over a database) from multiple database do- mains, and non-searchable forms that do not represent database queries such as, for example, forms for login, mailing list subscriptions, Web-based email forms. Consider for example, the Form-Focused Crawler (FFC) [2] which is optimized for locating searchable Web forms. For a set of representative database domains, on average, only 16% of the forms retrieved by the FFC are actually relevant— for some domains this percentage can be as low as 6.5%. These numbers are even lower for less focused crawlers [6, 8]. In what follows, to make this paper self-contained, we briefly describe the components of ACHE . For a detailed description, the reader is referred to [3, 4]. 2.1 Searching for Online Databases Each page retrieved by the crawler is sent to the Page Classifier, which is trained to identify pages that belong to a particular topic based on their contents. It uses the same strategy as the best-first crawler of [6]. The page classifier analyzes a page P and assigns to it a score which reflects the probability that P belongs to the focus topic. A page is considered relevant if this probability is greater than a certain threshold (0.5 in our case). If a page is determined to be relevant, its links are extracted and used as inputs to the Link Classifier. The Link Classifier learns to estimate the distance between a link and a target page based on link patterns: given a link, the link classifier assigns a score to the link which corresponds to the estimated distance between the link and a page that contains a relevant form. The Frontier Manager uses this estimate to prioritize promising links, including links that have delayed benefit—links which belong to paths that will eventually lead to pages that contain searchable forms. As we discuss in [3], considering links with delayed benefit is essential to obtain high harvest rates while searching for sparse concepts such as online databases on the Web. Since searchable forms are sparsely distributed on the Web, by prioritizing only the links that bring immediate return, i.e., links whose patterns are similar to those of links pointing to pages containing searchable forms, the crawler may miss target pages that can only be reached with additional steps. The Link Classifier is constructed as follows. Given a set of URLs of pages that contain forms in a given database domain, paths to these pages are obtained by crawling backwards from these pages. ACHE uses two different approxima- tions of the Web graph to perform a backward crawl: it uses the link: facility provided by search engines [5] at the beginning of the crawling process; and it uses the Web subgraph collected during the crawler execution. The backward crawl proceeds in a breadth-first manner. Each level l+1 is constructed by re- trieving all documents that point to the documents in level l. From the set of paths gathered, the best features of the links are automatically selected. These features consist of the highest-frequency terms extracted from text in the neigh- borhood of the link, as well as from the URL and anchor. Using these features, the classifier is trained to estimate the distance between a given link (from its associated features) and a target page that contains a searchable form. Intu- itively, a link that matches the features of level 1 is likely to point to a page that contains a form; and a link that matches the features of level l is likely l steps away from a page that contains a form. The Frontier Manager controls the order in which pages are visited. It creates one queue for each level of the backward crawl. Links are placed on these queues based on their similarity to the features selected for the corresponding level of the link classifier. Intuitively, the lower the level of the link classifier, the higher is the priority of the queue. When the crawler starts, all seeds are placed in queue 1. At each crawling step, the crawler selects the link with the highest relevance score from the first non-empty queue. If the page it downloads belongs to the target topic, its links are classified by link classifier and added to the most appropriate queue. The focused crawler learns new link patterns during the crawl and automat- ically adapts its focus based on these new patterns. As the crawler navigates through Web pages, successful paths are gathered, i.e., paths followed by the crawler that lead to relevant forms. Then, the Feature Selection component au- tomatically extracts the patterns of these paths. Using these features and the set of path instances, the Adaptive Link Learner generates a new Link Classi- fier that reflects these newly-learned patterns.1 The Adaptive Link Learner is invoked periodically, after the crawler visits a pre-determined number of pages. Experiments over real Web pages in a representative set of commercial domains showed that online learning leads to significant gains in harvest rates—the adap- tive crawler retrieve up to three times as many forms as a crawler that use a fixed focus strategy [3]. 2.2 Identifying Relevant Databases The Form Filtering component is responsible for identifying relevant forms gath- ered by ACHE , and it does so by examining the visible content in the forms. The overall performance of the crawler is highly-dependent on the accuracy of the form filtering process, which assists ACHE in obtaining high-quality results and also enables the crawler to adaptively update its focus strategy. If the Form Filtering process is inaccurate, crawler efficiency can be greatly reduced as it drifts way from its objective through unproductive paths. Instead of using a single, complex classifier, our form filtering process uses a sequence of simpler classifiers that learn patterns of different subsets of the form feature space [4]. The first is the Generic Form Classifier (GF C), which uses structural patterns to determine whether a form is searchable. Empirically, we have observed that these structural characteristics of a form are a good indicator as to whether the form is searchable [2]. The second classifier in the sequence identifies searchable forms that belong to a given domain. For this purpose, we use a more specialized classifier, the Domain-Specific Form Classifier (DSF C). The DSFC uses the textual content of a form to determine its domain. Intuitively, the form content is often a good indicator of the database domain—it contains metadata and data that pertain to the database. 1 The length of the paths considered depends on the number of levels used in the link classifier. By partitioning the feature space of forms, not only can simpler classifiers be constructed that are more accurate and robust, but this also enables the use of learning techniques that are more effective for each feature subset. Whereas decision trees [14] gave the lowest error rates for determining whether a form is searchable based on structural patterns, SVM [14] proved to be the most effective technique to identify forms that belong to the given database domain based on their textual content. 3 Constructing the Molecular Biology Database Directory In this section we describe the process we followed to build a collection of molec- ular biology online databases. This process consists of customizing three com- ponents of the ACHE framework: Page Classifier, Link Classifier and Form Fil- tering. Page Classifier. The Page Classifier defines the broad search topic for the crawler: based on the page content (words in the page), the Page Classifier predicts whether a given page belongs to a topic or not. We used Rainbow [12], a freely- ıve available Na¨ Bayes classifier, to build the Page Classifier. To train it, we crawled the biology-related Web sites listed in dmoz.org and gathered 2800 pages to serve as positive examples. Because of the great variety of pages that can be visited during the crawl, constructing a set of representative negative examples is more challenging. To select negative examples, we ran the crawler with the selected positive examples and an initial set of negative examples taken from a corpus that comes with the Rainbow classifier. We then added the misclassified pages to the set of negative examples. Examples of such misclassified pages included non-English pages and pages from foreign porn sites. A total of 4671 negative examples were collected. The Page Classifier was then constructed using the 50 terms that led to the highest information gain. For the Molecular Biology domain, these terms in- cluded: biology, molecular, protein, genome, ncbi, length, substring, structure, gene, genomics, nih, parent, sequence, pubmed, entrez, nlm, fellows, postdoc- toral, research, dna. Link Classifier. We created the Link Classifier from a backward crawl of depth 3. The set of seeds chosen to train the Link Classifier comprised 64 relevant Web forms manually selected from NAR collection. For each of the feature spaces of links (url, anchor and text in link neighborhood), the 5 most frequent words are selected. To build the classifier we used WEKA [18], an open source data ıve mining tool. The classification algorithm (Na¨ Bayes) is used to estimate the probabilities of a link being 1, 2, or 3 steps away from a form page. Form Filtering. As discussed above, the Form Filtering uses two classifiers: the GFC (based on form structure) and DSFC (based on form content). In our initial experiment, we used the GFC we had constructed for identifying searchable commercial databases [4]. An inspection of the misclassified forms showed that (a) Non-searchable form (b) Blast form Fig. 2. Similarity of a non-searchable form in a commercial domain and a searchable form in the molecular biology domain. some searchable forms in the molecular biology domain are structurally similar to non-searchable forms of commercial sites. The presence of features such as text areas, buttons labeled with the string "submit", file inputs, are good indicators that a (commercial) form is non-searchable. However, these features are also present in many searchable forms in the molecular biology domain (e.g., Blast search forms). This is illustrated in Figure 2. To address this problem, we added a sample of the misclassified forms to the pool of positive examples, and generated a new instance of the classifier. The GFC was then able to correctly classify forms like the Blast forms as searchable—its accuracy improved to 96%. To generate the DSFC, we manually gathered 150 positive examples of forms from the NAR collection [9]. The negative examples were obtained as follows: we ran the crawler and filtered the searchable forms using the GFC; then, from these searchable forms we manually selected 180 forms that did not belong to the molecular biology domain. These forms included, e.g., forms related to chemistry and agriculture, as well forms for searching for authors and journals related to molecular biology. Using these training examples, we generated the first version of DSFC. This version, however had a very low precision: only 16%. The problem was due to false positives. Unlike the commercial domains, the crawler retrieved a large number of non-English pages. As the DSFC was not trained to handle non- English terms it incorrectly classified these forms as relevant. After we added the misclassified (non-English) forms to the set of negative examples, the accuracy of the DSFC increased substantially, to 65%. To try and further improve the accuracy, we added additional false positives misclassified by the second version of the DSFC to the pool of negative examples and, once again, constructed a new instance of the classifier. The third version obtained 89% accuracy. The top 20 terms used to build the DSFC were: name, type, select, result, keyword, gene, sequenc, databa, enter, ani, option, page, help, titl, protein, number, advanc, onli, format, word. 4 Experimental Evaluation In this section we first assess the effectiveness of ACHE for constructing a high- quality set of molecular biology databases. We then compare our results with those of the manually constructed NAR collection. Recall Specificity Adaptive 0.82 0.96 Table 1. Quality measurement for GFC. Recall Precision Accuracy Adaptive 0.73 0.93 0.96 Table 2. Quality measurement for Form Filtering (GFC+DSFC). To verify the effectiveness of the adaptive crawler in this domain, we executed the following crawler configurations: • Baseline Crawler: A variation of the best-first crawler [6]. The page classifier guides the search and the crawler follows all links of a page whose contents are classified as being on-topic; • Static Crawler: Crawler operates using a fixed policy which remains unchanged during the crawling process; • Adaptive Crawler: ACHE starts with a pre-defined policy, and this policy is dynamically updated after crawling 10,000 pages. All configurations were run using 35 seeds obtained from dmoz.org and crawled 100,000 pages. The Link Classifier was configured with three levels. Since the goal of ACHE is to find relevant online databases in the molecular biology domain, we measured the effectiveness of the crawler configurations in terms of the total number of relevant forms gathered. We manually inspected the output of Form Filtering to calculate the values for: accuracy, recall; precision and specificity. Accuracy is a suitable measure when the input to the classifier contains similar proportions of positive and negatives examples; recall captures the number of relevant items retrieved as fraction of all relevant items; precision represents the number of relevant items as a fraction all the items predicted as positive by the classifier; and specificity is the proportion of actual irrelevant items predicted as irrelevant. The results obtained by the GFC (see Table 1) confirm that it can identify most of the relevant forms (high recall) and to filter out most of the irrelevant forms (high specificity). As Table 2 shows, the combination of the GFC and DSFC leads to a very high recall, precision and accuracy. This indicates that the Form Filtering process is effective and that a high-quality (homogeneous) collection of databases can be generated by ACHE . Figure 3 shows the number of relevant forms retrieved by the three crawler configurations over time. The Adaptive Crawler outperforms both the Static and the Baseline configurations, retrieving 513 relevant forms after crawling 100,000 pages versus 341 and 376 relevant forms retrieved by Static and Baseline, respectively. This shows that the feedback from Form Filtering is effective in boosting the crawler performance. Table 3 shows the features used by the initial Link Classifier and the features learned during the crawl that are used by the final classifier. A similar behavior has been observed for crawls over commercial domains [3]. This indicates that the adaptive strategy is effective regardless of the domain. Field Initial features Final features URL link, search, full, genom, index search, blast, genom, form, bioinfo Anchor data, genom, for, text, full search, blast, gene, databas, sequenc Around bio, data, info, genom, gene search, databas, gene, genom, sequenc Table 3. Features of the Link Classifiers used at the beginning and at the end of the crawl process. Fig. 3. Behavior of different crawler configurations over time. NAR Collection. The NAR collection lists 968 databases. But their concept of databases is more generic than ours: they consider as a database both pages that contains tables with information about genes and proteins, and pages that con- tain forms (or links to pages that contain forms). In our evaluation, we consider only the searchable forms accessible through the NAR collection. To extract the searchable forms directly or indirectly accessible through the NAR collection, we crawled the links provided (using wget with depth 1). Among the 20,000 pages retrieved by wget, 700 relevant forms were identified. Although ACHE obtained 513 forms, we should note that the NAR collection has been maintained for over 7 years—the earliest reference we found dates back to 1999—and it has become a very popular resource. Once ACHE was configured, the 513 forms were automatically gathered in 4 hours. This shows that such a collection can be efficiently maintained over time. In addition, these forms were obtained in a relatively small crawl (only 100,000 pages). The positive slope for the Adaptive Crawler graph in Figure 3 indicates that additional forms can be obtained in larger crawls. This is an issue we plan to investigate in future work. 5 Related Work BioSpider [11] is a system that integrates biological and chemical online databases. Given a biological or chemical identifier, BioSpider produces a report contain- ing physico-chemical, biochemical and genetic information about the identifier. Although the authors mention BioSpider performs a crawl to locate the under- lying sources, no details are given about the crawling process. Also, the number of sources they integrate is very small—only about 20 databases are listed on their Web site. Ngu et al. [15] proposed an approach to classify search interfaces by probing these interfaces and trying to match the control flow of the interface against a standard control flow. Thus, for a specific type of form (which they refer to as a service class), e.g., a Blast search, they create a corresponding flow graph pattern from a sample of known interfaces and try to match new interfaces against that pattern. An important limitation of this solution comes from its reliance on the ability to automatically fill out structured forms. The difficulties in automatically filling out structured Web forms are well-documented in the literature [7, 16]. InfoSpiders [17] is a multi-agent focused crawler specialized for biomedical in- formation whose goal is to fetch information about diseases when given informa- tion about genes. A study by Menczer et al. [13] comparing several topic-driven crawlers (including InfoSpiders) found that the best-first approach (the Baseline configuration in Section 4) leads to the highest harvest rate among the crawlers in the study. As we discuss in Section 4, our adaptive crawler outperforms the best first crawler by a large margin. 6 Conclusion and Discussion In this paper we described a case study we carried out to evaluate the extensi- bility and effectiveness of the ACHE framework for constructing a high-quality online database directories. We described the process of customizing the frame- work for molecular biology databases; and performed an evaluation which showed that ACHE is able to efficiently locate and accurately identify databases in this domain. The number of relevant forms automatically gathered (after a 4-hour crawl) is very close to the number of forms listed in a manually created col- lection that has been maintained for over 7 years. This indicates that ACHE provides a scalable solution to the problem of automatically constructing high- quality, topic-specific online database collections. These results also reinforce our choice of applying learning techniques. Because we use learning classifiers in the different components of ACHE , with some modest tuning, the system can be customized for different domains. It is well-known, however, that the performance of machine learning tech- niques, such as the classifiers used in our framework, is highly-dependent on the choice of training examples used to construct them. And building a represen- tative sample of forms is difficult due to the large variability in form content and structure, even within a well-defined domain. We are currently investigating strategies that simplify the process of gathering positive and negative examples. To help users locate relevant databases, we are designing intuitive and ex- pressive query interfaces that support both simple keyword-based queries and structured queries (e.g., find forms that contain an attribute with a given label). Although our focus has been on databases accessible through forms, in future work we plan to investigate extensions to our infrastructure for handling more general notions of online databases, such as for example, pages that contain tables with biology-related information. Acknowledgments. This work was partially supported by the National Science Foundation and a University of Utah Seed Grant. References 1. L. Barbosa and J. Freire. Siphoning Hidden-Web Data through Keyword-Based Interfaces. In Proceedings of SBBD, pages 309–321, 2004. 2. L. Barbosa and J. Freire. Searching for Hidden-Web Databases. In Proceedings of WebDB, pages 1–6, 2005. 3. L. Barbosa and J. Freire. An Adaptive Crawler for Locating Hidden-Web Entry Points. In Proceedings of WWW, 2007. To appear. 4. L. Barbosa and J. Freire. Combining Classifiers to Organize Online Databases. In Proceedings of WWW, 2007. To appear. 5. K. Bharat, A. Broder, M. Henzinger, P. Kumar, and S. Venkatasubramanian. The connectivity server: Fast access to linkage information on the Web. Computer Networks, 30(1-7):469–477, 1998. 6. S. Chakrabarti, M. van den Berg, and B. Dom. Focused Crawling: A New Approach to Topic-Specific Web Resource Discovery. Computer Networks, 31(11-16):1623– 1640, 1999. 7. K. C.-C. Chang, B. He, and Z. Zhang. Toward Large-Scale Integration: Building a MetaQuerier over Databases on the Web. In Proceedings of CIDR, pages 44–55, 2005. 8. M. Diligenti, F. Coetzee, S. Lawrence, C. L. Giles, and M. Gori. Focused Crawling Using Context Graphs. In Proceedings of VLDB, pages 527–534, 2000. 9. M. Galperin. The molecular biology database collection: 2007 update. Nucleic Acids Res, 35, 2007. 10. W. Hsieh, J. Madhavan, and R. Pike. Data management projects at Google. In Proceedings of ACM SIGMOD, pages 725–726, 2006. 11. C. Knox, S. Shrivastava, P. Stothard, R. Eisner, and D. S. Wishart. BioSpider: A Web Server for Automating Metabolome Annotations. In Pacific Symposium on Biocomputing, pages 145–156, 2007. 12. A. McCallum. Rainbow. http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/ mccallum/bow/rainbow/. 13. F. Menczer, G. Pant, M. Ruiz, and P. Srinivasan. Evaluating topic-driven Web crawlers. In Proceedings of SIGIR, pages 241–249, 2001. 14. T. Mitchell. Machine Learning. McGraw Hill, 1997. 15. A. H. Ngu, D. Rocco, T. Critchlow, and D. Buttler. Automatic discovery and inferencing of complex bioinformatics web interfaces. World Wide Web, 8(3):463– 493, 2005. 16. S. Raghavan and H. Garcia-Molina. Crawling the Hidden Web. In Proceedings of VLDB, pages 129–138, 2001. 17. P. Srinivasan, J. Mitchell, O. Bodenreider, G. Pant, and F. Menczer. Web Crawling agents for Retrieving Biomedical Information. In Workshop on Agents in Bioin- formatics (NETTAB-02), 2002. 18. I. H. Witten and E. Frank. Data Mining: Practical Machine Learning Tools and Techniques. Morgan Kaufmann, 2005. 19. W. Wu, C. Yu, A. Doan, and W. Meng. An Interactive Clustering-based Approach to Integrating Source Query interfaces on the Deep Web. In Proceedings of ACM SIGMOD, pages 95–106, 2004.
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Shaun of the dead walk about |
Shaun of the dead walk about |
ukzombie |
Feb 12 2007, 07:24 AM
Guests |
Hello all, as a newby to this popular site, I thought I would share my Shaun of the Dead walk about with you and while on the walkabout take a few photos of the filming locations used.
I don't know how many other fans have done this but it was a great experiance and hope to do the same for The Fuzz when it comes on DVD. Click here to view the walkabout ukzombie |
Haggles |
Apr 14 2007, 07:40 PM
Guests |
Sorry for the double post but I just had an idea...
A few years ago (when I lived in Tufnell Park) some mates and I re-enacted the whole Tim/Mike/Sophie "If you hurt him, I'll kill you" scene outside the newsagent where it was filmed (off Tuffnell Park road). Might I suggest that if any of you current London dwellers get round to a tour you whore the whole thing in character? or is that too geeky |
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 8th March 2014 - 12:36 PM |


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VERNON — The Vernon Lions closed out the District 5-3A team tennis season with a 16-3 victory over Iowa Park Tuesday.
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Definition of semmit in English:
Line breaks: sem¦mitPronunciation: /ˈsɛmɪt
Scottish- An undershirt; a vest.More example sentences
- The fashion of racing up the pitch with the jersey pulled over the face to reveal the sports semmit has been rife these last two or three seasons.
- Wearing semmits and hard hats they climbed through young trees to an open slope.
- The man who is too sexy for his semmit has been under attack of late.
late Middle English: of unknown origin.